[House Hearing, 116 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] THE FUTURE OF WORK: ENSURING WORKERS ARE COMPETITIVE IN A RAPIDLY CHANGING ECONOMY ======================================================================= HEARING before the SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE INVESTMENT COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, DECEMBER 18, 2019 __________ Serial No. 116-49 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and Labor [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via the: https://edlabor.house.gov or www.govinfo.gov ________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 42-483 WASHINGTON : 2021 COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia, Chairman Susan A. Davis, California Virginia Foxx, North Carolina, Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona Ranking Member Joe Courtney, Connecticut David P. Roe, Tennessee Marcia L. Fudge, Ohio Glenn Thompson, Pennsylvania Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, Tim Walberg, Michigan Northern Mariana Islands Brett Guthrie, Kentucky Frederica S. Wilson, Florida Bradley Byrne, Alabama Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin Mark Takano, California Elise M. Stefanik, New York Alma S. Adams, North Carolina Rick W. Allen, Georgia Mark DeSaulnier, California Lloyd Smucker, Pennsylvania Donald Norcross, New Jersey Jim Banks, Indiana Pramila Jayapal, Washington Mark Walker, North Carolina Joseph D. Morelle, New York James Comer, Kentucky Susan Wild, Pennsylvania Ben Cline, Virginia Josh Harder, California Russ Fulcher, Idaho Lucy McBath, Georgia Van Taylor, Texas Kim Schrier, Washington Steve Watkins, Kansas Lauren Underwood, Illinois Ron Wright, Texas Jahana Hayes, Connecticut Daniel Meuser, Pennsylvania Donna E. Shalala, Florida Dusty Johnson, South Dakota Andy Levin, Michigan* Fred Keller, Pennsylvania Ilhan Omar, Minnesota Gregory F. Murphy, North Carolina David J. Trone, Maryland Haley M. Stevens, Michigan Susie Lee, Nevada Lori Trahan, Massachusetts Joaquin Castro, Texas * Vice-Chair Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director Brandon Renz, Minority Staff Director ------ SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE INVESTMENT SUSAN A. DAVIS, California, Chairwoman Joe Courtney, Connecticut Lloyd Smucker, Pennsylvania, Mark Takano, California Ranking Member Pramila Jayapal, Washington Brett Guthrie, Kentucky Josh Harder, California Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin Andy Levin, Michigan Elise Stefanik, New York Ilhan Omar, Minnesota Jim Banks, Indiana David Trone, Maryland Mark Walker, North Carolina Susie Lee, Nevada James Comer, Kentucky Lori Trahan, Massachusetts Ben Cline, Virginia Joaquin Castro, Texas Russ Fulcher, Idaho Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona Steve C. Watkins, Jr., Kansas Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, Dan Meuser, Pennsylvania Northern Mariana Islands Gregory F. Murphy, North Carolina Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon Alma S. Adams, North Carolina Donald Norcross, New Jersey C O N T E N T S ---------- Page Hearing held on December 18, 2019................................ 1 Statement of Members: Davis, Hon. Susan A., Chairwoman, Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment......................... 1 Prepared statement of.................................... 4 Smucker, Hon. Lloyd, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment......................... 5 Prepared statement of.................................... 6 Statement of Witnesses: Gattman, Ms. Nova, Deputy Director for External Affairs, Workforce Training and Education Coordinating Board, Olympia, WA................................................ 26 Prepared statement of.................................... 28 Harris, Mr. Seth D., J.D., Visiting Professor, Cornell Institute for Public Affairs, SE, Suite 310, Washington, D.C........................................................ 8 Prepared statement of.................................... 10 Markell, Mr. Brad, Executive Director, AFL-CIO Working for America Institute, Washington, D.C......................... 61 Prepared statement of.................................... 63 Paretti, Mr. James A., Jr., Shareholder, Littler Mendelson P.C., Treasurer, Emma Coalition Washington, D.C............ 41 Prepared statement of.................................... 44 Additional Submissions: Jayapal, Hon. Pramila, a Representative in Congress from the State of Washington: Report: Domestic Workers Bill: A Model for Tomorrow's Workforce.............................................. 82 Link: Future of Work Task Force 2019 Policy Report....... 99 Courtney, Hon. Joe, a Representative in Congress from the State of Connecticut: Sec. 4013 Extending Federal Pell Grant Eligibility of Certain Short-Term Programs............................ 102 THE FUTURE OF WORK: ENSURING WORKERS ARE COMPETITIVE IN A RAPIDLY CHANGING ECONOMY ---------- Wednesday, December 18, 2019 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment, Committee on Education and Labor, Washington, D.C. ---------- The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:18 a.m. p.m., in Room 2175, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Susan Davis [chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding. Present: Representatives Davis, Courtney, Takano, Jayapal, Harder, Levin, Omar, Trone, Lee, Bonamici, Adams, Norcross, Scott (ex officio), Smucker, Guthrie, Grothman, Stefanik, Banks, Walker, Comer, Watkins, Meuser, and Foxx (ex officio). Staff Present: Ilana Brunner, General Counsel, Health and Labor; Emma Eatman, Press Assistant; Eli Hovland, Staff Assistant; Jaria Martin, Clerk/Special Assistant to the Staff Director; Katie McClelland, Professional Staff; Richard Miller, Director of Labor Policy; Max Moore, Office Aide; Banyon Vassar, Deputy Director of Information Technology; Rachel West, Senior Economic Policy Advisor; Courtney Butcher, Minority Director of Member Services and Coalitions; Akash Chougule, Minority Professional Staff Member; Dean Johnson, Minority Staff Assistant; Amy Raaf Jones, Minority Director of Education and Human Resources Policy; Hannah Matesic, Minority Director of Operations; Audra McGeorge, Minority Communications Director; Jake Middlebrooks, Minority Professional Staff Member; Carlton Norwood, Minority Press Secretary; Chance Russell, Minority Legislative Assistant; and Mandy Schaumburg, Minority Chief Counsel and Deputy Director of Education Policy. Chairwoman Davis. The Committee on Education and Labor will come to order. We want to welcome everyone this morning. Thank you so much for being here. I note that a quorum is present. The committee is meeting today for the last hearing of the decade to receive testimony on The Future of Work: Ensuring Workers are Competitive in a Rapidly Changing Economy. Really important work that we are doing and, you know, it is telling that here we are trying to look into the future but dealing today with this issue. Pursuant to Committee Rule 7(c), opening statements are limited to the chair and the Ranking Member. This allows us to hear from our witnesses sooner and provide all members with adequate time to ask questions. I want to recognize myself now for the purpose of making an opening statement. We are gathered today for the committee's second of three ``future of work'' hearings. These hearings provide committee members the opportunity to hear from experts and stakeholders and discuss how to provide all workers access to the tools, support, and protections needed to thrive in today's rapidly changing economy. Today, we will discuss Congress' responsibility to address worker displacement by expanding access to lifelong learning and ensuring that American workers can remain competitive as the nature of work changes. There are a wide range of factors that cause workers to become displaced. Recessions, trade, climate change, automation are just some of the reasons why Americans become disconnected from their jobs, their industries, or their workforce. Whatever that cause may be, nearly all displaced workers and their families face a common set of challenges. Financial hardship, poor health, and reduced life expectancy are common consequences for all displaced workers. Workers who lose their jobs can also suffer lower and less stable long-term earnings and may become trapped in a cycle of low-wage, low-mobility jobs. Today, some 53 million workers age 18 to 64, or 44 percent of the workforce, have median annual earnings of $17,950 per year. And research shows that over half of these workers will remain in this low-wage bracket even when they transition to another job. Given the severe consequences of worker displacement, you might assume that we have a robust, integrated, and well-funded system to help workers build their skills and get back into the workforce, but, unfortunately, you would be wrong. Although worker displacement is a familiar and ongoing challenge, our current policy response consists of a thin patchwork of programs and services that are poorly integrated and increasingly underfunded. Federal investments in workforce training and employment programs have fallen behind other countries, and they continue to decline. We spend only about 0.1 percent of our GDP on workforce development programs, compared to an average of 0.6 percent in our peer industrialized nations. And while the U.S. labor force has grown by roughly half over the past four decades, Federal investment in workforce development has fallen by two-thirds. At the same time, employers' investment in workforce training has also decreased. From 1996 to 2008, the percentage of workers receiving employer-sponsored training fell by 42 percent. Let me say that again. The percentage of workers receiving--this is from 1996 to 2008--the percentage of workers receiving employer-sponsored training fell by 42 percent. That is a staggering number to remember. Lower skilled workers who could benefit the most from training often receive the least, as employers direct most investment toward workers who already hold high-skilled and managerial positions. Adequate investment is not the only challenge. The existing patchwork of policies and programs makes it difficult for displaced workers to access the resources that they need. Under the current system, eligibility for benefits and services is geared toward workers who have suffered only specific causes of displacement. Workers affected by trade receive the most support than others, and they would probably tell you that is also not adequate. The burden generally falls on the worker to prove the cause of their displacement and then find which programs or services they are eligible to receive. As automation and other emerging trends continue to disrupt our economy in new ways, we must reshape workforce programs to help all workers at risk of displacement secure in-demand skills. Reskilling alone is insufficient to ensure workers can remain competitive. We must explore policies to proactively prevent displacement, enhance worker supports like career guidance, and promote lifelong learning. Today, our witnesses will also help us discuss policies Congress could pass to ensure workers threatened by displacement are not left to fend for themselves. We know, for example, that we must substantially increase Federal investments in workforce development. And, in fact, the Council of Economic Advisers reported that the U.S. would have to spend $80.4 billion more per year to match the average spending on workforce programs by our peer industrialized countries relative to GDP. We also must make it easier for workers to locate the resources to transition between jobs or build new skills. Improving data collection methods and increasing credential transparency in our workforce system would be one good example, I think, that would match job seekers with employers, inform career navigation services, and help workers find sustainable career pathways. We must build from what we know works, like Trade Adjustment Assistance Community College and Career Training, or TAACCCT grants, and expand career navigation supports. And finally, Congress must ensure that resources for lifelong learning programs, which help workers access education and training opportunities, can be accessed by all workers and in all parts of the country. While there is a cost to these actions, inaction would come at a far greater cost to working families. Well-prepared workers are better equipped to grow our economy and contribute to their communities. The bottom line is clear. Congress must invest in a system that brings workforce systems, employers, labor, and educators together to ensure the success of workers in the future. I want to thank all of you again, thank our witnesses for being here. And I now yield to the Ranking Member, Mr. Smucker, for an opening statement. [The statement of Chairwoman Davis follows:] Prepared Statement of Hon. Susan A. Davis, Chairwoman, Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment We are gathered today for the Committee's second of three ``future of work'' hearings. These hearings provide Committee Members the opportunity to hear from experts and stakeholders and discuss how to provide all workers access to the tools, support, and protections needed to thrive in today's rapidly changing economy. Today, we will discuss Congress's responsibility to address worker displacement by expanding access to lifelong learning, and ensuring that American workers can remain competitive as the nature of work changes. There are a wide range of factors that cause workers to become displaced. Recessions, trade, climate change, and automation are just some of the reasons why Americans become disconnected from their jobs, their industries, or the workforce. Whatever the cause, nearly all displaced workers and their families face a common set of challenges. Financial hardship, poorer health, and reduced life expectancy are common consequences for all displaced workers. Workers who lose their jobs can also suffer lower and less stable long-term earnings, and may become trapped in a cycle of low-wage, low- mobility jobs. Today, some 53 million workers age 18 to 64 - or 44 percent of the workforce - have median annual earnings of $17,950 per year. And research shows that over half of these workers will remain in this low wage bracket even when they transition to another job. Given the severe consequences of worker displacement, you might assume we have a robust, integrated, and well- funded system to help workers build their skills and get back into the workforce. Unfortunately, you would be wrong. Although worker displacement is a familiar and ongoing challenge, our current policy response consists of a thin patchwork of programs and services that are poorly integrated and increasingly underfunded. Federal investments in workforce training and employment programs have fallen behind other countries and continue to decline. We spend only about 0.1 percent of our GDP on workforce development programs, compared to an average of 0.6 percent in our peer industrialized nations. And while the U.S. labor force has grown by roughly half over the past four decades, federal investment in workforce development has fallen by two-thirds. At the same time, employers' investment in workforce training has also decreased. From 1996 to 2008, the percentage of workers receiving employer-sponsored training fell by 42 percent. Lower-skill workers who could benefit the most from training often receive the least, as employers direct most investment toward workers who already hold high- skilled and managerial positions. Adequate investment is not the only challenge. The existing patchwork of policies and programs makes it difficult for displaced workers to access the resources they need. Under the current system, eligibility for benefits and services is geared towards workers who've suffered only specific causes of displacement - workers affected by trade receive the most support that others. The burden generally falls on the worker to ``prove'' the cause of their displacement and then find which programs or services they're eligible to receive. As automation and other emerging trends continue to disrupt our economy in new ways, we must reshape workforce programs to help all workers at risk of displacement secure in-demand skills. Reskilling alone is insufficient to ensure workers can remain competitive. We must explore policies to proactively prevent displacement, enhance worker supports like career guidance, and promote lifelong learning. Today, our witnesses will also help us discuss policies Congress could pass to ensure workers threatened by displacement are not left to fend for themselves. We know, for example, that we must substantially increase federal investments in workforce development. In fact, the Council of Economic Advisers reported that the U.S. would have to spend $80.4 billion more per year to match the average spending on workforce programs by our peer industrialized countries relative to GDP. We also must make it easier for workers to locate the resources to transition between jobs or build new skills. Improving data collection methods and increasing credential transparency in our workforce system, for example, would better match job seekers with employers, inform career navigation services, and help workers find sustainable career pathways. We must build from what we know works, like Trade Adjustment Assistance Community College and Career Training, or TACT grants, and expanded career navigation supports. Finally, Congress must ensure that resources for lifelong learning programs, which help workers access education and training opportunities, can be accessed by all workers, and in all parts of the country. While there is a cost to these actions, inaction would come at far greater cost to working families. Well-prepared workers are better equipped to grow our economy and contribute to their communities. The bottom line is clear: Congress must invest in a system that brings workforce systems, employers, labor, and educators together to ensure the success of workers in the future. Thank you, again, to our witnesses for being with us today. I now yield to the Ranking Member, Mr. Smucker, for an opening statement. ______ Mr. Smucker. Thank you for yielding. Today, we are here to discuss the future of work and how Federal policies and Federal programs can help to ensure that workers can remain competitive in a rapidly changing economy. There is a lot of good news here. American workers are benefiting from a strong economy ushered in by Republican pro- growth policies. Wages are on the rise. Jobs are being created, and unemployment is at a 50-year low. Thanks to this thriving economy, displacement rates are lower than they have been in years. Numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics illustrate that job separations today are largely voluntary. However, displacement continues to occur, and it will be unavoidable as technology evolves and the skills needed to compete in the labor market change. While we must acknowledge the problems associated with displacement and work to address them, our first step must be to help workers to acquire the skills and knowledge they need to get off the sidelines and into one of the millions of jobs that are open today across the Nation. According to a 2018 survey of U.S. employers, nearly half of all job creators struggled to hire employees with the right skills for the job, which has led to 7 million unfilled positions throughout the country and a substantial skills gap that plagues our workforce. Earlier this year, this committee heard from Daniel Pianko, co-founder and managing director of University Ventures, a company working to transform the pathway from higher education to employment. Pianko said in his testimony: ``The skills gap is exacting a heavy toll on American families and institutions. It is impeding economic growth, promoting generational inequity, jeopardizing the American Dream, and creating real anxiety about the future of work.'' Fortunately, we know that skills-based education, like apprenticeships, are proven to help address the growing skills gap that we currently face. That is why my Republican colleagues and I have taken steps to advance work-based learning opportunities, including further integrating our education and workforce development systems, so that we can provide workers with the skills necessary to fill those millions of unfilled jobs. These efforts will aid all workers, including displaced workers. Thanks to the Trump administration, the Task Force on Apprenticeship Expansion is also working on solving the issues that put up barriers to entry and bureaucratic red tape for those who wish to develop apprenticeship programs. Specifically, the Task Force recommended giving businesses greater flexibility in their apprenticeship programs to meet the varying needs of different industries. After all, employers know what skills their employees need best to excel in the workplace. We should build on these successes by advancing policies that make it more attractive and easier to invest in workers. Rather than promoting policies that burden businesses and drive up costs, committee Republicans will continue to champion reforms that expand opportunities for flexibility, innovation, and entrepreneurship, to give workers and job seekers opportunities to compete successfully in the 21st century economy. I want to thank the witnesses for coming today, and I look forward to hearing from each of you. [The statement of Mr. Smucker follows:] Prepared Statement of Hon. Lloyd Smucker, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment Today, we are here to discuss the future of work and how we can ensure workers are competitive in a rapidly changing economy. Here's the good news. American workers are benefitting from a strong economy ushered in by Republican pro-growth policies. Wages are on the rise, jobs are being created, and unemployment is at a 50-year low. Thanks to this thriving economy, displacement rates are lower than they have been in years. Numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics illustrate that job separations today are largely voluntary. However, displacement continues to occur and it will be unavoidable as technology evolves and the skills needed to compete in the labor market change. While we must acknowledge the problems associated with displacement and work to address them, our first step must be to provide workers with the skills they need to get off the sidelines and into one of the millions of jobs open today across the nation. According to a 2018 survey of U.S. employers, nearly half of all job creators struggle to hire employees with the right skills for the job, which has led to seven million unfilled positions throughout the country and a substantial skills gap that plagues our workforce. Earlier this year this committee heard from Daniel Pianko, co-founder and managing director of University Ventures, a company working to transform the pathway from higher education to employment. Pianko said in his testimony, `The skills gap is exacting a heavy toll on American families and institutions. It is impeding economic growth, promoting generational inequity, jeopardizing the American Dream, and creating real anxiety about the future of work.' Fortunately, we know that skills-based education, like apprenticeships, are proven to help address the growing skills gap we currently face. That is why my Republican colleagues and I have taken steps to advance work-based learning opportunities, including further integrating our education and workforce development systems so we can provide workers with the skills necessary to fill the millions of unfilled jobs nationwide. These efforts will aid all workers, including displaced workers. Thanks to the Trump administration, the Task Force on Apprenticeship Expansion is also working on solving the issues that put up barriers and bureaucratic red tape for those who wish to develop apprenticeship programs. Specifically, the task force recommended giving businesses greater flexibility in their apprenticeship programs to meet the varying needs of different industries. After all, employers know what skills their employees need to excel in the workplace. We should build on these successes by advancing policies that make it more attractive and easier to invest in workers. Rather than promoting policies that burden businesses and drive up costs, Committee Republicans will continue to champion reforms that expand opportunities for flexibility, innovation, and entrepreneurship to give workers and job-seekers opportunities to compete successfully in the 21st century economy. I want to thank the witnesses for coming today and I look forward to hearing from them. ______ Chairwoman Davis. I want to thank the gentleman for his statement. Without objection, all other members who wish to insert written statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the Committee Clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format, usually within 14 days, but since we are meeting here and that falls on January 1, we will grant time up until January 6 at 5 o'clock. I am pleased to recognize my colleague, Representative Jayapal, to briefly introduce her constituent who is appearing before us as a witness today. Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I am so proud to welcome Nova Gattman from Washington State. Ms. Gattman is the deputy director for external affairs on the State's Workforce Training and Education Coordinating Board. She played a key role in coordinating and contributing to the State's Future of Work Task Force, which brought together business leaders, unions, worker advocates, academic experts, and elected officials. The Task Force just issued a very comprehensive report that I will be submitting for the record on the future of work. Ms. Gattman was also the co-chair of Washington's National Governors Association Policy Academy on Work-Based Learning, which played a key role in launching Governor Inslee's Career Connect Washington Project. I had the opportunity to work with Ms. Gattman when I was in the State Senate, and delighted to have your testimony here today. Welcome. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. And I will now introduce the remaining witnesses. Seth Harris is an attorney in Washington, D.C., and a visiting professor at Cornell University's Institute for Public Affairs. Previously, he served as the Acting U.S. Secretary of Labor and a member of President Obama's Cabinet, by the way, and Deputy U.S. Secretary of Labor from 2009 to 2014. James Paretti is a shareholder in the Washington, D.C., office of Littler Mendelson PC and a member of the firm's Workplace Policy Institute. He is also a member of the board of directors of the Emma Coalition and is testifying today on behalf of the Emma Coalition. Brad Markell is the executive director of the AFL-CIO Working for America Institute and the executive director of the Industrial Union Council at AFL-CIO. We appreciate all of you being here and look forward to your testimony. And I want to especially thank those of you who have traveled to be here with us today. I want to remind the witnesses that we have read your written statements and they will appear in full in the hearing record. Pursuant to Committee Rule 7(d) and committee practice, each of you is asked to limit your oral presentation to a 5- minute summary of your written statement. I need to remind the witnesses that pursuant to Title 18 of the U.S. Code, section 1001, it is illegal to knowingly and willfully falsify any statement, representation, writing, document, or material fact presented to Congress or otherwise conceal or cover up a material fact. Before you begin your testimony, please remember to press the button on the microphone in front of you so that it will turn on and the members can hear you. As you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn green, and after 4 minutes, the light will turn yellow to signal that you have 1 remaining minute. When the light turns red, your 5 minutes have expired and we ask that you please wrap up. We will let the entire panel make their presentation before we move to member questions. And when answering a question, please remember to once again turn your microphone on. I will first recognize Mr. Harris. I would like to inform you that Ms. Wild and Ms. Schrier will be joining us at this hearing, Members from other subcommittees. Mr. Harris. STATEMENT OF SETH D. HARRIS J.D., VISITING PROFESSOR, CORNELL INSTITUTE FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS, SE, SUITE 310, WASHINGTON, D.C. Mr. Harris. Thank you, Madam Chair, Ranking Member Smucker, and Members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I will share some lessons I learned while overseeing the Labor Department's workforce development programs and leading the Department's response to the Great Recession and its aftermath. Of course, economic catastrophes like the Great Recession are not the only causes of worker displacement. Trade and technology are also important. They have combined to shift employment growth from middle-skill occupations toward low- skill and high-skill occupations, but worker dislocation has many causes. Workers face relentless change, which puts them at continual risk. Technologies, products, and services, markets, transportation systems, and capital investment all evolve, often unpredictably. But American workers' needs do not change. They always need sufficient income to support themselves and their families. They also need an opportunity to secure a place in the American middle class through hard work, if they are able. Greater opportunities to acquire skills and knowledge will enable working people to respond to dislocations and change. Without those opportunities, middle-skill workers risk slipping out of the middle class, and workers in low-wage, low-skill jobs, who are most likely to cycle into similar jobs rather than moving to higher skill jobs, risk being permanently locked out of the middle class. Unfortunately, the workforce development system struggles to help all who need it. It has a patchwork design. Programs serve only particular populations of workers: Dislocated, disadvantaged, ex-offenders, trade-affected workers, out-of- school-youth and others. Too many cannot find a place in any of those programs. And even eligible workers are challenged, because the system is grossly underfunded. Since 2001, Congress has slashed funding for many programs. Hundreds of thousands more workers could have been trained if Congress appropriated at the authorized or fiscal 2001 levels for Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act programs. Inadequate funding also skews services away from job training. In the first quarter of 2019, only 12 percent of exiters and 19 percent of program participants in the WIOA Dislocated Workers Program received training services. Here are four additional and fundamental challenges. First, learning while working is both expensive and demanding. Most workers have neither the time nor the money to pursue the credentials they need; second, the landscape of education and training credentials is complex, too complex for ordinary workers to sort out on their own; third, career pathways are difficult to navigate, and most workers get little guidance; fourth, workers do not have a guarantee in most instances that more education or training will result in a better job. The failure to address these challenges has contributed to the disturbing fact that rates of upward income mobility in the United States, that is, doing better than our parents, have been cut almost in half over the course of two generations. Let me suggest seven solutions. Solution one: Unions make a huge difference in education and training. More unions and union members would mean more skilled and knowledgeable workers with career pathways. By contrast, unregulated industry recognized apprenticeship programs will undermine successful registered apprenticeships and not increase success. Solution number two: Let's stop pretending that workers can finance their own education and training. Congress must substantially increase appropriations for the WIOA programs and Pell Grants and open Pell Grants to those seeking nondegree credentials. Solution number three: We must have flexible delivery systems that fit with workers' lives, but only if we can provide a style of education that fits their learning styles. Let's start a national dialogue about what workers need to succeed. Solution number four: We need a radical transparency movement around credentials. Everyone must share their data about credentials and their outcomes. The U.S. Government should require public disclosure of these data. Solution number five: We must aggressively expand the public workforce system's existing cadre of career navigators to help workers find their career pathways. Simply, we have evidence that it works. Solution number six: We need labor market intermediaries that can help employers get organized to work with training providers. The Trade Adjustment Assistance Community College Career Training program was a success. You should re-create it. Solution number seven: Let's break down the distinction between pursuing a labor market credential and pursuing an educational degree. Prior learning assessment and articulation agreements should be the rule, not the rare exceptions. Those are my recommendations, Madam Chair. I look forward to your questions. [The statement of Mr. Harris follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. And, Ms. Gattman. STATEMENT OF NOVA GATTMAN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR EXTERNAL AFFAIRS, WORKFORCE TRAINING AND EDUCATION COORDINATING BOARD, OLYMPIA WA Ms. Gattman. Thank you, Chairwoman Davis, Ranking Member Smucker, and Members of the subcommittee, for the opportunity to testify on behalf of Washington State's future of work efforts. My name is Nova Gattman. I am the deputy director for external affairs at Washington's Workforce Board. Washington is often associated with large IT companies, like Microsoft or Amazon. However, Washington is an incredibly diverse State. IT is only our tenth largest industry sector in the State. Agriculture is actually our second largest export sector after aerospace. And one challenge that we face is that economic prosperity is not equally distributed. Unfortunately, the jobs that are most likely to be automated are the same jobs that are most prominent in the rural areas in the State that are currently experiencing higher unemployment and lower wages. Washington is committed to addressing these disparities by increasing support for workers and building an economy that works for businesses, workers, and communities. Our Future of Work report highlights that 65 percent of the jobs today's kindergartners will hold when they become adults do not exist today. And one critical aspect of preparing for the future of work are opportunities for career-connected learning. Governor Inslee's Career Connect Washington initiative envisions every student in Washington participating in career-connected learning. This program includes local grants to develop and build capacity in every sector and increased enrollment funding. Since 2017, 78,000 career- connected learning experiences have already been made possible through this work. Additionally, our State passed legislation this year that would allow over 110,000 students to participate in higher education over the next 4 years, and this includes the student cost of participating in registered apprenticeship programs. Also of note, uniquely, our State's program has no age limits, and so this benefits not only an 18-year-old traditional student seeking a 4-year degree, but also a 45-year-old mid- career worker who is seeking retraining or up-skilling opportunities. In terms of Washington's public workforce development system, we are most successful when we can begin working with businesses and workers long before business shutters its doors or an individual seeks unemployment insurance. A significant challenge is that the current reactive system of Federal supports are primarily focused on identifying mass layoffs that qualify for funding. To be effective as we prepare for the future of work, our systems must look towards anticipating and addressing sector shifts and identifying groups of workers at risk. And now I would like to speak about Washington's Future of Work Task Force, which is staffed by our State's Workforce Board, and its policy recommendations. The Task Force included four members from the legislature, six from business, and six from labor. We were the first State in the Nation to convene a legislative task force focused on this topic. The Task Force came up with five broad policy areas and 17 specific recommendations. These include: Enhanced worker training and lifelong learning opportunities; two, understanding and setting guidelines on deploying advanced technologies and starting with a State government workforce; three, examining how to modernize worker support systems to support the changing nature of work and increasing career mobility for many individuals; four, re-imagining career and credentialing pathways to allow for validation and comparison of the value of educational opportunities; and finally, deploying economic development resources to support small and midsize businesses, especially in our more rural regions. Some key recommendations that might be of interest from those topic areas. First, incumbent worker training. The best way to ensure that our workers aren't being left behind is to ensure that they have the skills to grow with their employers and in their careers. Our incumbent worker training programs are popular with businesses, but the limited funds run out quickly. The Task Force recommends that we fund the unmet employer applications this year and supports a likely request for $25 million for our State in 2021. Lifelong learning accounts, or LiLAs, is another key strategy. LiLAs are portable employee-owned accounts that help pay for education and related expenses, with employers and employees both contributing to the accounts. Washington was one of the first States in the country to initiate a LiLA program, with the support of then-State senator Derek Kilmer, who is, of course, now your colleague, Representative Kilmer. One rural healthcare employer estimated that LiLA saved him over $70,000 in retention costs just in the first year of using the program. Another recommendation recognizes the role that libraries play in our communities as a hub for those with limited access to the internet or other resources, and calls for support to allow local libraries to provide access to training, education, and business development resources. The Task Force also supports expanding the use of collaborative applied research, which pairs a business and its workers with a college or university to work together to develop new products or solve a business problem. In conclusion, although our work was focused on developing the best future work policies to promote shared prosperity among the residents of Washington, I hope these recommendations can help serve as helpful blueprints for those of you here today. Thank you for the invitation to share Washington's story, and I am happy to answer any questions. [The statement of Ms. Gattman follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. Mr. Paretti. STATEMENT OF JAMES A. PARETTI JR., SHAREHOLDER, LITTLER MENDELSON P.C., TREASURER, EMMA COALITION, WASHINGTON, D.C. Mr. Paretti. Chair Davis, Ranking Member Smucker, Members of the subcommittee, good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. My name is Jim Paretti. I am a shareholder in the law firm of Littler Mendelson, and a member of the board of directors of the Emma Coalition. My testimony here this morning is solely on behalf of the Emma Coalition, not my firm or any of its clients. The Emma Coalition is a nonpartisan 501(c)(3) corporation dedicated to the preparation of the American workforce for technology-induced displacement of employment, or what we call TIDE. We seek to bring together businesses, trade associations, labor, academic institutions, and policymakers to address the challenges and opportunities presented by TIDE that our workforce is already facing. We believe that with proper preparation, employers and workers can thrive in TIDE; but if they do nothing, TIDE will overwhelm them. Now, I am often asked, what does Emma stand for? In Washington, everything is an acronym. Well, Emma is not a what but a who, and she is the 8-year-old granddaughter of Michael Lotito, one of my partners and the president and co-founder of the Emma Coalition. More than that, Emma represents the next generation of our workforce. Each of us in this room today has an Emma, and we owe it to all of them to ensure a skilled and prepared workforce so that all Emmas will be able to succeed. The National Restaurant Association is also a co-founder of the Emma Coalition. The restaurant industry compromises over 1 million restaurants and outlets nationally, employing 15.3 million employees, roughly 10 percent of the U.S. workforce. Given that one in three Americans get their first job in the restaurant industry, it is at the epicenter of TIDE, and the NRA is helping its members meet its challenges. I discuss some of the ways in which it is doing so in my written testimony. Respectfully, the question of whether TIDE will fundamentally reshape our workforce is no longer before the subcommittee. That ship has sailed. The questions now before you are when, how, and to what extent these changes will come and, most important, what can we do to prepare for them? A few key points. First, the speed at which TIDE is changing the workplace is exponentially faster than any we have seen before. This is perhaps the most striking way in which this industrial revolution differs from the ones that have come before it and why we at Emma believe a response is urgent. Second, disruption caused by TIDE will affect everyone, regardless of class, race, geography, age, or industry, but its impact will be felt by some individuals and in certain sectors more than others. Third, while we might assume that only blue-collar or lower skilled occupations will be impacted by TIDE, it is clear that white-collar jobs in banking, accounting, healthcare, law, other industries will also face disruption. Finally, while the disruption caused by TIDE may be unsettling, TIDE need not be wholly negative, and in the long run, is likely to have an overall positive effect on the labor market. That is, if we take steps to ensure that our workforce is prepared. I am excited to be here this morning alongside the Washington State Task Force on the Future of Work. We welcomed the release of their report earlier this month, and we believe that Washington State's recognition that the time for action is now should serve as a model for other States and localities in facing the challenges of TIDE. We are doing everything we can to put that out there. Another group with whom we are working is America Succeeds. America Succeeds supports a national network of nonpartisan, business-led policy education toward improving--I am sorry, committed to improving public education and creating a culture of lifelong learning. In the 21st century workplace, it is no longer simply the three Rs that count. Our students must also master the four Cs of critical thinking, creativity, communication, and collaboration. We look forward to working with America Succeeds in their efforts. We are convinced that data analytics will be crucial in responding to TIDE. We need to determine how we can use data to identify, at a granular level, which jobs are most susceptible to displacement, what jobs are likely to replace them, what skills are necessary for success in these new jobs, what sort of up-skilling is necessary to close the gap, that delta, and how do we effectively deliver what will enable displaced workers to succeed. We are actively exploring ways with data vendors to do so. The need for workers throughout their careers to be dynamic will be paramount. We believe the concept of financial incentives for lifelong learning shows promise, as you have heard. Currently, we provide tax-favored ways to set aside money at the end of our careers through 401(k)s and IRAs, and at the start of our careers through tax-deferred savings for college. We at Emma believe we should explore the effectiveness of providing similar benefits for workers throughout their careers. Finally, we need a national strategy. The U.S. is woefully behind in responding to the complex and interrelated issues raised by TIDE, and many view our lack of engagement not only as a matter of economic security but is one of national security. Compared to other countries, our efforts have been lagging, at best, but we are pleased and hope that today's hearing is an important first step. At the end of the day, we know that TIDE will dramatically transform our workforce. The challenges ahead are great, but the Emma Coalition firmly believes that so are the opportunities. We stand ready to work with you, and I welcome any questions you may have. Thank you. [The statement of Mr. Paretti follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Mr. Markell. STATEMENT OF BRAD MARKELL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AFL-CIO WORKING FOR AMERICA INSTITUTE, WASHINGTON, D.C. Mr. Markell. Chair Davis, Ranking Member Smucker, and Members of the committee, thank you for inviting AFL-CIO to share its views on these important topics. I serve as the director of the AFL-CIO Working for America Institute, a national nonprofit intermediary that works to bring organized labor's resources, expertise, and worker engagement to bear on our Nation's workforce development programs and to help develop and support innovative programs for training and support services. In 2017, the AFL-CIO formed a Commission on the Future of Work and Unions, whose report you have as a part of my written statement. The report confirms that advances in technology have always redefined work. This is nothing new. Unions have been addressing job displacement and skill changes within occupations for decades. Today, we are bargaining over the fair implementation of technology in the workplace and making sure frontline workers have a say in the design of work as new technologies come to the workplace. The Commission's report makes clear that technology itself is not the issue. The real issue is the human arrangement to shape how technology is used. Who has a say in the development of technology? Who gets opportunities for training for the new tasks and the new jobs of tomorrow? Will society, through our government, provide the resources that workers, employers, and communities need to grow and prosper as the pace of technology change accelerates? The Commission engaged dozens of experts in a detailed examination of how technology is changing work. We found, while there is no question that technology will eliminate some jobs, the robot apocalypse of job loss is not upon us. Rather, the main trend over the next decade will be jobs changing with new technology, not jobs being eliminated. This leads to the inescapable conclusion that we must focus on understanding how tasks will change within occupations to make sure that incumbent workers get the skills they need to stay employed and to be clear about the new skills needed in occupations that can employ displaced workers, no matter why they are displaced. As documented in my written testimony, people of color in low-income communities are overrepresented in occupations vulnerable to disruption and have well-identified challenges when it comes to employment transition. In the work of WAI and its partners, we have found that these challenges can be overcome by providing services that address specific barriers, such as childcare, transportation, or access to basic skills refresher training. We urge the committee and the Congress to take special care in addressing and funding these programs so all Americans can have a chance to succeed as technology changes our workplaces and the way we work. Many Americans have missed out on the gains of a growing economy. Rapidly changing technology can make this worse or it can be an opportunity to solve the very real problems of inequality and inequity in our society. We believe that a successful path is an all-of-the-above approach that meets workers and employers where they are and helps them succeed. This includes increased funding for workforce development programs and support services, with special attention to underserved and vulnerable populations; promote and fund registered apprenticeships, including programs to align them with changing technology; reform and expand unemployment insurance and expand access to job search assistance; reform trade adjustment assistance to expand it to cover workers displaced by technology; expand the role of sector partnerships, labor workforce intermediaries, and joint labor management training programs in the workforce system. Pass the PRO Act. Good outcomes for workers depend on workers having an actual voice in the workplace. An open-door policy doesn't cut it. You need institutional power so that workers can have a voice that really puts their interests on an even setting with employers. Finally, we can make public investments that will create high-quality training and good jobs and increase opportunity for everyone. This Congress can and must lead the way. I thank you, and I look forward to your questions. [The statement of Mr. Markell follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. Under Committee Rule 8(a), we will now question witnesses under the 5-minute rule. And as chair, I will ask the first question and then be followed by the Ranking Member, and then we will alternate between the parties. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes. Now, you have all laid out a few recommendations that I think are very helpful to us. And we know that we are in a new situation, in many cases, due to technology and a host of other issues. We can't just reinvest perhaps in existing programs. Some of them we may have to decide have not been so helpful, but others we can go and approach in a different way. And I will start with Mr. Harris. If you could just, of those recommendations that you listed--and I understand that in many cases it is--you mentioned that we can't assume that workers know where to go, how to help themselves, in many cases. But what is it that you feel is, you know, really a key barrier, maybe something that we talk about less in terms of these issues? And I think I would like the rest of you, if you would, please, to, you know, of those concerns that you have, what do we usually miss in thinking about these issues? Professor Harris. Mr. Harris. So I want to highlight the rather egregious market failures that exist in the market for skills, knowledge, and credentials. So, essentially, the way our system works is we say to workers, figure out what degree or credential or training you should get that is going to get you a job. We are not going to tell you which one. And then either find your own funding or we will provide you with funding, although you provide very few of them with funding, let me be honest with you. The problem with that kind of an approach is that the people who are making the choices, both workers and employers, don't have the requisite information. Market systems depend upon widely available free-flowing, readily accessible information. Workers don't know which credentials will end up in their getting jobs or even what skills and knowledge those credentials certify. Employers also often don't know that. They sometimes don't know what credentials they want people to acquire, because they don't know what competencies they want people to be trained in. But they don't understand it any better than anybody else. In the United States right now--and I mentioned this in my testimony--there are more than 730,000 credentials that are offered to workers and employers. No one can sort that out and no one does. There is no Yelp for credentials in our country. So I think that fundamental market failure is a very serious problem that we need to solve. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. And Ms. Gattman as well. How do we get there? Ms. Gattman. Sure. Chairwoman Davis. What gets in the way? Ms. Gattman. One of the things that we have been really working on in Washington is this idea of integrated service delivery. And WIOA, the way it was set up was, you know, it did break down a lot of the barriers where, you know, we are able to serve the whole worker. One of the things that has been a concern for us is the way it is set up, though, there are disincentives for folks to work together between different agencies, different programs. It is a question of who gets the credit or how does that--how is the funding distributed. And so that is something that, you know, we would be certainly interested in talking more about and what we could do to help influence that conversation. Chairwoman Davis. I know one of the things just to bring up quickly is that many of our families actually would struggle to pay a $400 unexpected expense. So how does that relate to what you are saying? What do we need there to have some assistance, cheer people on? Ms. Gattman. Sure. So one of the aspects of our report that we highlighted is the Lifelong Learning Accounts program. So when we are talking about that unexpected expense, particularly regarding to education programs, when you have--a lot of the times that is the main reason people are dropping out of higher education. And so having access to an account that can bridge some of those smaller amounts but they are still very significant to the families makes a huge difference. Chairwoman Davis. Could be helpful. Thank you. Mr. Paretti, and then, Mr. Markell, I haven't left you too much time, but we will try and get to you really quickly. Mr. Paretti. I was labor counsel for 8 years to the committee but on the workforce side, so I never sat in a hearing where the witnesses actually generally agreed with one another or thought we were all fighting the same battles. It is a pleasure. I will endorse what Ms. Gattman said with regard to Lifelong Learning Accounts. I think resources obviously are a barrier. Two other points quickly. I think with respect to data, I agree with Professor Harris that we really need to take a close look. And I believe that we can. The numbers are out there, whether they are publicly available, some are privately available, industry-based, to say how do we figure out what jobs are going, what are leaving, where are they going, and what are the skills and core competencies needed. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. I am going to switch to Mr. Markell. We will be back and talk to everybody some more. Mr. Markell, quickly, just that one kind of glaring thing that we have to have. Mr. Markell. Organized labor is really, really concerned that workers are being steered down bad paths that don't lead to good jobs and stable occupations. So we need to learn a lot more about the quality of jobs and the outcomes for training providers that are trying to pull people into training that doesn't lead them anywhere. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. I now turn to the Ranking Member, and would you like us to--I will let you--and we are going to go to Mr. Guthrie. Thank you very much. Mr. Guthrie. Thank you very much. Thank you all for being here. It is great to have you. Mr. Paretti, I am chair of the E-Commerce Caucus, along with Peter Aguilar of California. One of our main focuses is how the e-commerce industry will support American competitiveness and economic growth. As our country develops new innovative technologies, such as improving the artificial intelligence, we have to ensure that we are helping people learn the skills to work with new technology. And I am particularly interested in your example of the healthcare industry adapting AI. Can you expand on the benefits and challenges of an industry that embraces technology such as AI versus one that is not adaptive and keeps the status quo? Mr. Paretti. Sure. Thank you, Congressman. I think the healthcare industry is a great example of the role of AI in improving outcomes across the board. Through the use of artificial intelligence, robotics, you now have surgeons and others who are able to perform much more complex surgeries than they have ever done in less time with better patient outcomes and better results. The automated ability to track a patient's condition, monitoring in the hospital, those are all things that would just require a human body to do. At the same time, what it has allowed for is the development of skills in other areas. Whereas, you no longer need a nurse necessarily walking the halls to hand out pills, that can be taken care of. What you do need is someone to more fully engage with the patient on a holistic basis and work with them towards managing whatever has gotten them there towards their treatment. So I think the healthcare industry is a striking example of where AI presents challenges but also some great opportunities. Mr. Guthrie. You mentioned in your testimony that some studies say that 85 percent of the jobs--85 percent of the jobs that will exist in 2040 have not been--don't exist today. And I am trying to think of that--that is only 20 years away--and think of 85 percent of the disruption in the workforce. It is something you want to talk about as well. I know that is in your testimony. And I was just thinking, you know, 20 years ago, we really didn't have--you had phones, but not to the level that we have. So all the work that has come--Amazon, I mean those, they existed, but not to the point that they are. So of the studies you have seen, what are you thinking and how can Congress--maybe if you want to address that too, how can Congress--what do we need to do to get out of the way or to help in order to make sure we have people qualified for these 80 percent of new jobs in 20 years? That is not that long away. Mr. Paretti. No, no. And I mean, I do say I think we do need to acknowledge the studies vary widely. You will see everything from 45 to 85 percent, and on its face, it is a somewhat startling figure. Mr. Guthrie. Substantial. Mr. Paretti. Oh, it is absolutely substantial. But you think, oh, my goodness, these jobs haven't been created yet. Well, as you rightly pointed out, could you imagine 20 years ago the folks who were making and servicing all the platform vehicles that we use now, the phones, the other technology, you know, that were available too. social media, web design, so much of what we have seen become automated. Mr. Guthrie. You know, one of the limits of 5G development and employment are people capable of installing the 5G equipment. Mr. Paretti. I am sorry, I didn't hear. Mr. Guthrie. One of the biggest impediments to 5G is not just all the technology and stuff, it is having people with the ability to--enough people with the ability to be able to install the towers, not really towers but what you use for 5G. Mr. Paretti. Sure. No, that is exactly right. And I think that is among those 7 million jobs that Mr. Smucker referred to, in terms of a skills gap. In connection with this hearing this morning, I had a number of folks reach out to me and say, boy, make the point, Jim, that we are trying to hire folks and we just can't find-- these are manufacturers, these are auto manufacturers. We have talented--we have jobs that provide good long-term wages, a road to success, and we simply can't find the folks to get them in there. Sometimes that is a failing of the educational system. Sometimes that is a failing of the job training system. But I think, you know, a focus from top to bottom, and particularly with respect in K-12, in sort of changing the paradigm. Workers need to understand it is no longer--you are going to get there. You are going to get your terminal degree, whether it is a bachelor's or an associate's or a certificate, and that is going to be enough to carry you. Mr. Guthrie. We also have the issue we are at record unemployment and trying to get more people into the workforce. But I have learned--and I was in manufacturing, as Professor Harris talked about--the best people to train are the people already working that need to go up the ladder so they can earn more money. They have got the work ethic. They are showing up for work to train. But you get to the flexibility. It is really hard to work in a factory 40 hours a week, hoping for overtime and having a family and trying to--so we have to be flexible with this. And any kind of thoughts of you guys on how you--and as we have talked about here, apprenticeships particularly, how do we get people trained as they are working? You know, just to take 4 years off and go back to college and have summers off and spring break and fall break, that is just not what these people are looking for. They are looking for a pathway to be able to earn a living. And that is perfect for people 18 to--whenever you can go back for. But how do we grab somebody that is 30 that is like, wow, it is kind of a dead-end job, but I can really see, instead of loading this robot, if I can fix it, then I am going to make a lot more money. And how do we make those contacts? Those are the things we are trying to think through. If anybody wants to comment. Mr. Paretti. I don't want to monopolize time, if anyone-- Mr. Guthrie. I know Professor Harris talked about flexibility, we needed flexibility in delivery. Mr. Harris. Right. So my main point about flexibility is that asynchronous distance learning is not a panacea. It is a very good delivery system, but not everybody is appropriate to distance learning. For the workers that you are talking about-- and I share that concern about incumbent workers who are not finding a pathway up a career ladder--they really need help understanding career pathways from their employers. And also let me say, where you have a union, you almost always have a very well-defined career pathway. So they need understanding about how do I get from here to there and who's going to provide me with that training? Is the employer going to do it? Is some public enterprise going to do it? Is a partnership with a community college going to do it? And if I get the credential, is it a credential that is not only going to help me in my current workplace, but will it help me in the labor market as a whole with other employers. That is-- Mr. Guthrie. As the new jobs come--I know she is gaveling, so we better--thank you so much, and I appreciate your time and effort. Thank you. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. And I tried to give the Ranking Member back some time. Okay. The gentlelady from Washington, Ms. Jayapal. Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to our witnesses for being here on such an important subject. I think as we think about the future of work, it is particularly important that we think about every job being a good job. I am very proud of our home State. I think we have some of the best worker protections and wages across the country. And so, Ms. Gattman, let me start with you. The report, the Future of Work report shows that the median wage has increased across the State, with most of the wage growth going to the highest and lowest earning workers. And the report attributes that wage growth in the lower paying entry-level jobs, in particular, primarily to recent increases in the State minimum wage. So it is clear that a good job is a job that pays a livable wage. What other factors did the Task Force identify that contribute to job quality? Ms. Gattman. Thank you, Representative. The Task Force spent a lot of time on this topic. It is a broad category, job quality, that encompasses a wide range of characteristics: pay, hours worked, job safety. There is a range of different areas there. We identified the following six topics that really we felt encompassed whether a job was a quality job to a worker, and each section goes into greater detail in our report. I encourage you to take a look if you haven't had a chance yet. But those areas: Wage growth and wage disparity first; second, worker voice, self-determination, and job autonomy; third, employment structure, relationships, and benefits; fourth, job deskilling; fifth, an accessible career pipeline. Five areas, actually. So some of these do have specific policy recommendations in the report, and then others we did flag as needing further study. The Task Force was a 15-month task force so far, and we are looking to extend that, but we do need to do further study on some of those items. Ms. Jayapal. And this was the agreement--one of the things I liked about the Task Force is that you had businesses, you had worker representation, worker organizations and unions, all at the table coming up with this unanimous set of recommendations around the important areas for a good job. You also found in your report that while median wages grew in Washington State, there were some workers who were left behind. What interventions specifically related to wage disparities did the Task Force suggest to address those disparities? Ms. Gattman. Sure. Thank you. So incumbent worker training is certainly a factor for us in helping workers grow with their companies and earning those higher wages. The Task Force also had a recommendation on joint worker management committees as part of any State incumbent worker training funding. We think that will help ensure the workers' needs and interests are reflected when those public funds are invested to support business growth and development. The report also talks about better labor market data and credential transparency. We want people to be able to better prepare for their career futures and to make wise decisions on how to invest their time and money to achieve those career goals. So to do that, they need information about program outcomes and the actual skills and competencies that would result from a course or credential. Ms. Jayapal. One of the things that is growing in our State is the number of contingent workers. And, you know, contingent workers have far fewer legal protections, less safety benefits, less retirement security. What do you recommend that we look at to keep those workers safe and secure? Ms. Gattman. Sure. So the information we have on this, it is largely anecdotal. We went through a lot of research on the contingent workforce, and we found that contingent work is on the rise, particularly in terms of part-time supplemental income. But our report covers quite a bit, and it comes down to choice. So are the workers taking contingent jobs because they like the flexibility, they earn enough to support their families, or are they taking that because they have no other options? And so we posed the question: Can we create the public worker support network and infrastructure that enables those workers to earn a family-sustaining income while working in a career that is meaningful to them? And so one of the things that we recommend is we want to look at the public worker benefit system and see if there are things that we need to do to help improve that system to be more responsive to contingent workers. Ms. Jayapal. Thank you. A report that was released yesterday by The Century Foundation calls my Domestic Workers Bill of Rights, which is cosponsored by many on this subcommittee, a model of innovation for other sectors as policymakers consider what laws are needed to ensure an inclusive and equitable future for work. Madam Chair, I would like to ask unanimous consent to introduce both the Future of Work Task Force report and the 2019 Century Foundation report entitled ``Domestic Workers Bill: A Model for Tomorrow's Workforce'' into the record. Chairwoman Davis. Without objection. [The information follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Future of Work Task Force 2019 Policy Report: https:// www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CPRT-116HPRT43987/pdf/CPRT- 116HPRT43987.pdf Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I yield back. The Chairman. Thank you. The gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Grothman. Mr. Watkins is next then, the gentleman from Kansas. Mr. Watkins. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. In Kansas, we talk with a lot of chief executives who certainly have the work, and they would do more if they had the people. And so, Mr. Paretti, I hear this from employers all the time, you know. And so my question is, they can't find enough skilled workers for their positions, and so how will this problem be exacerbated with the coming TIDE, with the technology-induced displacement of employment? Mr. Paretti. Thank you, Congressman. We have already seen it, I mean, and the speed at which it is happening is accelerating. More and more as lower skilled jobs are displaced by automation, by artificial intelligence, they do create other opportunities, but those opportunities are a higher skill level. If we are currently in a situation where we can't fill 7 million jobs now because of the lack of skilled workers, as the jobs that are out there require a greater skill set and greater set of competencies to master, that number is going to only get bigger. What we can do about it, I think, is talk about, as we mentioned, lifelong learning. I think instilling a sort of a dynamic concept into this. Understand you are going to constantly throughout your career having to be up-skilling yourself, constantly learning and looking toward the next position. I was heartened by the chair's comment that we spend a ton of money right now on workforce training programs, but, as I think it was Professor Harris' testimony, it is scattered among so many different programs that serve different constituencies. Is there a way to look at and spend--you know, if we are spending this much money, can we spend it more wisely and more effectively? That is one thing I would certainly endorse taking a close look at. Mr. Watkins. Thanks. And, like you mentioned, it is not just low wage or minimal skill/no skill labor. We are starting to see this expand to banking and accounting and other fields. I am particularly interested in the example that you brought up in the healthcare industry with regards to AI. And AI has the ability to provide workers with the opportunity to focus more on face-to-face-- Mr. Paretti. Yes. Mr. Watkins.--and less repetitive work. So what sectors embrace the mindset versus sectors that one will attempt to cling to the status quo? Mr. Paretti. Well, I mean, I think those sectors that don't embrace the mindset are going to find that it is going to smack them in the face one way or the other. To some extent, the automation in TIDE is going to be somewhat inevitable. What we can do is prepare ourselves for it. You mentioned healthcare--I think Mr. Guthrie talked about that as well--as a great opportunity for particularly traditionally undervalued skills, and this is interesting. We talk about the disparate impacts of TIDE. One positive is that it is largely expected that TIDE will favor women workers and female workers as opposed to male, because so many of the skills that were traditionally undervalued--social skills, empathy, interaction, the things that lead to face-to-face time--those are going to be more and more in demand as routine, rote, sort of easy-to-do and noncomplex tasks are replaced by automation. So I think those are opportunities there. I see it in my law firm. I mean, I was an associate 20 years ago, and one of your first things you did for the first year of your career was sit in a room with boxes of documents and look for anything that looked different. So much of that can be done automated now that we no longer need to have folks doing that. So it frees up associates to be working at a higher level and ultimately moving. But, yeah, I think the thought that this is simply going to be, oh, it is the folks at the drugstore or in the fast food restaurants who are going to be displaced, it is much larger than that. Mr. Watkins. Thank you. I yield the balance of my time, Madam Chair. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Did you want to yield to anyone in particular? No. Okay. Mr. Watkins. No, ma'am. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. Okay. The gentleman from Connecticut, Mr. Courtney. Mr. Courtney. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, for holding this hearing and to the witnesses for being here this morning. Professor Harris, I just want to go back to one of your comments about the fact that a creative way to address this problem is to use the Pell Grant program to be available for nondegree credential programs. The good news is we just voted out of committee the reauthorization of the Higher Education Act a few weeks ago, and section 4013 actually embraced that concept for the first time. Again, we are opening up Pell Grants to nondegree programs. And, again, just for the record, Madam Chairwoman, I just want to enter into the record section 4013 from the CAA so that we can again-- Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Without objection. Mr. Courtney.--make it a part of the record. [The information follows:] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Courtney. However, one point which there was a little bit of a dustup during the markup was on the question of, you know, which programs should actually be allowed to use public dollars. Again, the section which I just referenced was careful to make sure that it was WIOA-certified programs, again, programs which have kind of--you know, we have run the traps on to make sure they are not junk certificates. And I was wondering, again, if you could just sort of, you know, just comment on whether or not that is the right approach, to just make sure we are not indiscriminately opening up, you know, public dollars to programs which may not provide anything of value. Mr. Harris. Yes. I think that is--I think the committee got it exactly right. We need to ensure that the programs that are funded with Pell Grant money--and I would say not just Pell Grant money, but all public money--are actually delivering training and credentials that have value in the labor market for workers, preferably paired with career pathways, advice, and guidance that allows those credentials to actually turn directly into a job. So I think that is exactly right. The only point that I would add about Pell Grants is that I think it is exactly right to open it up to nondegree credentials, but that means we need more money, because, otherwise, you are robbing Peter to pay Paul. And what I would rather do is let's help Peter and Paul get the training and education that they need. So let's expand the funding, the appropriations for Pell Grants as much as we possibly can to accommodate the additional influx of people using it for nondegree credentials. Mr. Courtney. Well, yesterday's minibus that actually did plus up to some degree Pell for the first time in years, I realize, but, you know, at least we are moving into positive territory. Mr. Markell, again, you talked about the registered apprenticeship program, which, again, I think there is very strong bipartisanship support for plussing or sizing it up to deal with the, you know, skills gap, job openings, and the economy there. However, again, to go back to the discussion we just had on credentialed certificate nondegree programs, it is key, isn't it, to make sure that apprenticeship certificates that have been around since the Fitzgerald Act passed in 1937 continues to maintain some standards to make sure that workers have something that is portable, and also employers know that they are getting something of quality? I just wonder if you could comment on that. Mr. Markell. We are really keen to see registered apprenticeship move into different occupations across different sectors. We think it is a great model. There are a lot of protections for employees and employers, frankly, in the registered apprenticeship model. We know things like EEOC plans are required inside of registered apprenticeships. We know that there are plans in contracts that are signed. We are seeing some--for instance, in the tech industry, the tech industry has decided that there are sort of two paths now. You can come from a fancy college or you can go to a registered apprenticeship, and they will put you into a pretty good job and give you a good career pathway. In healthcare, registered apprenticeships are expanding. In our own work, we are pushing registered apprenticeships into the production workforce in manufacturing, because we think that as technology changes and skills are pushed onto the production floor, you are going to see the average worker, the production worker, who used to just show up and hit their machine and do their work, starting to have tasks that are associated with technology. Registered apprenticeship is a way to codify that, to spread it across employers, and to make sure that everybody gets a fair shot at a credential that is going to be recognized, gives them a chance to change jobs if they want to, gives them a chance to move, lets employers know that they are getting the right skills when they get the person with that apprenticeship. Mr. Courtney. Great. Well, I know the chairwoman is very focused on moving this issue forward next year and, again, we will take your comments I am sure into consideration as we start that markup process. With that, I yield back. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. And Mr. Walker, the gentleman from North Carolina. Mr. Walker. Thank you, Madam Chair. It is no secret that American businesses across all industries are making automation advancements in their day-to- day activities. I think we would all agree with that. This is a reality that North Carolinians in my district face every day. In fact, Mr. Paretti, you previously mentioned Greensboro, a city in my district, as being one of the cities that has high automation potential. But the solution to ensuring that workers are prepared for new automation-driven jobs is not found in, in my opinion, additional mandates imposed on local businesses by the Federal Government. Our evidence shows that it is found in private- public partnerships that facilitate collaboration between employers and employees to engage in ongoing training. So, Mr. Paretti, we have repeatedly heard today that increased automation is the main cause for job displacement. However, the growing trends toward automation can actually have a positive impact on our economy. Would you agree with that or disagree with that? Mr. Paretti. Oh, I would absolutely agree. I mean, I think in the long run the effect on our labor market and our economy is going to be very positive. Productivity is increased--you know, all of those things--costs are lower, passed on to consumers-- Mr. Walker. So this is not just abstract; you have data that proves this assertion. Is that fair to say? Mr. Paretti. Yeah. Yes, I could get that to the committee. Mr. Walker. You mentioned in your testimony the importance of offering tax incentives to encourage saving for new training and development, similar to a 529 savings account or 401(k). Can you explain what would be the benefit to displaced workers if they had access to these kinds of savings accounts? Mr. Paretti. Certainly. Two areas come to mind. One is just the fact of having the money set aside in a tax-favored way. That means, when it is time to re-skill and perhaps before it is time--we don't endorse the concept of you should wait for your job to be gone to start thinking about the next one. You should constantly be building your skills. And if you have those resources to draw on, like a lifelong learning account or something of that sort, that provides that for you. Also, done correctly, they provide a portability of benefits. I think one of the Members earlier mentioned the contingent workforce. That number is not--BLS data suggests that number is not growing, sort of, as quickly as the trope would suggest, that, oh, we are all becoming contingent workers. The number has actually stayed fairly static. But one thing that certainly contingent workers face is a problem that so many of our benefit systems, starting with, you know, the ERISA-governed plans that are within the committee's jurisdiction, are tied to an employer and tied to your employment. If you can carry some of these benefits from employer to employer to different jobs when you are working on a contingent basis, when you are working full-time, when you are working part-time, I think that goes a long way, too, towards providing, you know, a cushion there for folks. Mr. Walker. Where do you feel like the opposition from that particular perspective or approach that you just mentioned, where do you feel that there is opposition preventing that from happening? Mr. Paretti. Well, I mean, certainly insofar as we are willing to provide a tax-favored treatment of a set-aside, that does take resources, that is a cost. So we need to have the wherewithal to say, okay, are we willing to spend that money? Or, alternately, if we are not willing to spend new money, where can we find money that we are now spending in a not-so- productive way that might allow us to do that? Mr. Walker. Yeah, we might have a few of those in this House. As I stated earlier, public-private partnerships have been proven to address the issues related to our skills gap much better than the Federal Government can. What are some of the challenges, if you would, that you all face at the Emma Coalition when partnering with other organizations to bridge the gap between employers and education? Let me put it this way. What can we do in Congress to ease some of these burdens and further your goal? Mr. Paretti. Sure. Well, I think, to be frank, this hearing this morning is a great start towards that, because one of the challenges we face--2 years ago, if I had started to have this conversation with someone about AI and training and what the impact on the workforce is going to be, I might get a polite nod and, ``Oh, that is interesting'' and, you know, find someone else to talk to, but I think now we have realized that this is a thing. And the national dialogue that Emma was formed to start and to foster has already begun, as evidenced by the fact that we are sitting in this room. So one of the challenges we face is just getting employers, employees, and others to understand this is something that is going to happen and we need to be taking responsibility for it now. We can't try to do this from the rearview mirror. It won't work. Mr. Walker. Thank you for your expertise. Madam Chair, I yield back. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. The gentlelady from Oregon, Ms. Bonamici. Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to all the witnesses. We know that entire sectors of the economy are transforming. I serve on the Select Committee on the Climate Crisis and recognize that climate change affects our economy, but it is also linked with the need to create good-paying jobs, as we see workers in the fossil-fuel industries are seeing a transition as we move to more clean energy resources. We need to make sure that those workers have the support and resources they need. But we can also look at this as a tremendous opportunity to create good jobs for working families through the energy and energy efficiency sectors, especially for those who could otherwise lose their positions. But we know that we have significant work to do. We know our workforce policies are currently fragmented and put the burden on the worker to prove the cause of their displacement and then navigate the resources on their own. So, Professor Harris, in your testimony, you talked about the Department of Labor's Trade Adjustment Assistance Community College Career Training Program, which is a really long title, and that provided grants mostly to community colleges but to some universities to support workers after the displacement and unemployment from the Great Recession. Of course, that program ended in 2018. So, based on your experience and third-party evaluation of that program, what are the most effective practices that are worthy of replication? And how could intermediaries help us accelerate training workers across multiple sectors of our economy? Mr. Harris. Well, you are right, Congresswoman, that we require that all of the TAACCCT grants have third-party evaluations. There has been a meta-analysis of the third-party evaluations put forward by the New America Foundation, and it found that the TAACCCT grants increased program completion, they increased credential acquisition, they increased employment opportunities. So they were very successful in that regard. The most important thing that they did was that they brought, exactly in the way that the Congressman was talking about, they brought together employers and community colleges and universities to develop programs for local and regional economies that would result in workers getting trained in the skills that would lead to in-demand jobs-- Ms. Bonamici. In their-- Mr. Harris.--in their economies. That is right. Ms. Bonamici. Right. Mr. Harris. So the problem was that the program was limited to programs for grants for workers who were trade-affected. So workers who were affected by climate change, we couldn't build a program specifically for that. So I think in the future what we need to think is much, much more broadly about dislocation from a number of sources, particularly and including climate change. Ms. Bonamici. Absolutely. Thank you. Mr. Markell, you noted in your testimony that the AFL-CIO's Commission on the Future of Work and Unions recently released a report about, sort of, transition assistance programs and avoiding displacement before it occurs. We need to make sure that our communities have that economic development support. So, based on the findings, what effective strategies can Congress support to help workers prepare for future transformation and avoid displacement? And what role will unions play in helping to support workers? How can we make sure more people have access as our economy adapts? Mr. Markell. What we have discovered is that the concept of just transition that emerged around the energy discussion is really applicable to all the technology transformations that we are having. And in order to get that right, one key factor is that there has to be a voice for workers and communities that are affected. We can't sit here and tell everybody what is justice for people that are being affected. You have to hear it from them. And what you will find is that people want investment driven to their communities; then they want the job-training opportunities that follow that investment. It is really important for workers to understand that they may never have a job in that same sector again, but we need to make all the jobs in those sectors good. That is where unions come in. That is where the PRO Act comes in. And it is super- important from labor's point of view that workers and communities are at the table-- Ms. Bonamici. Absolutely. Mr. Markell.--as we discuss these programs, because that is how we are going to get the success that they desire, that they define for themselves. Ms. Bonamici. Thank you so much. And because votes are called, I am going to yield back the balance of my time. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. The gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Grothman. Mr. Grothman. Sure. This topic kind of surprises me a little bit, because when I get around my district, the major fear is that we won't have enough people, you know, not the problem that we have a bunch of people who don't know what to do. But there is concern, and I think I will focus that concern particularly on three areas: on construction, on manufacturing, and the medical field. And I think, in all three areas, the problem we have is we have a shortage of people, quite frankly, in this country who want to work with their hands. You know, I think we could build more houses in my district if only we had more people in construction. Can't find them. I am told if you go into that field, within 3 or 4 years, you are going to be making six figures. In the medical field, again, as the population gets older, shortage of people. I am going to ask you, Mr. Paretti--or, I think there are two problems that are causing the shortage, or at least people think there are. And I am going to ask you to comment on these. First of all, we have too many people getting degrees. And Professor Harris mentioned the fact that some people are overpromising. I want you to address that, Mr. Paretti. Are universities sometimes overpromising a high wage when, in fact, if people got skills-based education, which frequently does not necessarily mean a college degree, they would be making more money and having more job security? Could you comment on that? Mr. Paretti. Sure. Mr. Grothman. Are universities overpromising? Mr. Paretti. I don't know that I would say that universities are overpromising as much as, generally, I think, the mindset has always been, if you go get a degree, if you get a 4-year degree, you will always do better. And there has been an aversion to saying that the path for everyone is not a 4- year degree. I think our community colleges, in that regard, are a tremendously undervalued resource in terms of developing skills-based learning and the sorts of things that lead to prosperity. You mentioned manufacturing. We do a lot of work with the National Association of Manufacturers and with their members. And one of the problems they face is they say, you know, when you say--parents don't tell their kids, ``Go get a job in the factory or go into manufacturing,'' because it is a mindset of 40 years ago, where it might have been dangerous-- Mr. Grothman. Well, I think the problem is-- Mr. Paretti. Go ahead. Mr. Grothman.--we have people on this committee who talk about it like somehow it is a superior type of thing, to go to college. And I want you to elaborate that, as far as the job opportunities. Do you see people going back and getting jobs in what in Wisconsin we call technical colleges, I guess you call community colleges, that maybe got a degree in the first place in which they were maybe overpromised a given salary and they didn't get it? Mr. Paretti. I am sure there are some. I wouldn't want to rattle off or pretend to rattle off with my fingers, you know, what those numbers are. But I certainly do endorse the concept that in, whether it is technical or community colleges, providing those sorts of skills--which are necessary. You know, even what we traditionally call blue-collar jobs, manufacturing, it is no longer simply enough to be able to use your hands; you need to use your head as well. I was on the floor of a plant just outside of St. Louis that manufactures fuse boxes, big things you see on traffic lights and such, manufactures most of them in the country, in fact. And if I tell you, to a person, male, female, everybody was in front of a screen and they were working with a computer, not against the computer, not displaced by. But the skills were necessary there-- Mr. Grothman. When you tour manufacturers, do you find that, even among the skilled workers they have, that too many of them are probably going to be retired in the next 10 years and, in fact, we are going to have a worker shortage? Mr. Paretti. Yes. Mr. Grothman. Okay. Mr. Paretti. Unequivocally. Mr. Grothman. And I will give you one more question. There is a lot of talk around here about credentialism. I think sometimes credentialism kind of mucks up the economy, because you have people who are capable of doing a job but they don't have the credential. Could you comment on this drive towards more credentialing? Is it a good thing or a bad thing? Mr. Paretti. I think knowing what is a valuable credential and what leads to something can be a good thing. I think to be, sort of, mindlessly stuck on the idea that I can't fill someone in this job if they don't check, you know, the following three boxes--you know, how many applications for employment ask do you have a bachelor's degree where, frankly, whether you have one or don't have one is not going to be relevant to the job that you are doing? So I think, sort of, a foolish reliance on simply check the box or, you know-- Mr. Grothman. Do you think there is too much credentialism in the United States? Mr. Paretti. I don't. I don't think that there is too much credentialism. I think there may be insufficient information about where credentials are valuable and helpful and where it is simply, you know, get the next thing because it is the next thing. Mr. Grothman. I will yield my remaining 10 seconds. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. We will have one more Member, the gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Levin, and then we will recess until after this vote and whatever may come next. Mr. Levin. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I am delighted to get to ask my questions before we adjourn for votes. You know, friends, I am a little unusual around here. I spent a lot of time working with one of you in the movement to raise up workers in this country. I am the only Member of Congress who used to run a State workforce system. I worked with another one of you in an earlier version of that. And then I also have worked a lot in the clean energy sector. And so I want to put those three things together and ask you about what I believe must be the greatest technological disruption ahead, and that is to deal with climate change. We have to move very, very fast and very, very comprehensively to transform everything about the way we build things, manufacture things, move around, live, work, all of our buildings, all of our transportation. I see tremendous opportunities here for the United States, for great jobs, for the economy. But let's be honest; we have a horrible track record of dealing with workers who are displaced by technological change or affected by it. And here, the energy sector is an area where we have great jobs, in a lot of cases, people who have been through registered apprenticeships, who have amazing skills and pride in their work. So talk to me about how this body, the Congress of the United States, should deal with what we need to do to make sure the workers most affected by any changes involved here are right at the center of the table in discussing, you know, displacement due to climate change and how we can best train people for new jobs and honor the work they have been doing. Do you want to start, Professor Harris? Mr. Harris. So I share your optimism about what a move to respond to climate change and to green jobs can mean for job creation. I think it will be a net job creator, very significantly so. And they will be good-quality, middle-skill jobs. And I share your view that workers are deeply, deeply concerned about the transition. To the extent that they are looking at all, they look at the jobs they have, which are, for many of them, very good, middle-skill, unionized jobs, and they look at the sectors into which they think these jobs are going to flow. They see very few unions. They see wages that are not as good. They don't see benefits, necessarily. And they wonder, is my future going to be a low-wage, low-skill future? And what you can do--and I want to do this at a very high level so others can comment. But what Congress can do is to not just acknowledge that is true but to respond by ensuring that workers can transition into good-quality jobs as seamlessly and at low cost as possible to them. And that means providing them with training, providing them with benefits, providing them with income support, providing them with career pathways, pointing to the jobs, helping the industries that are creating the jobs to hire those workers, and passing the PRO Act so those workers can organize. Mr. Levin. Mr. Markell, do you want to jump in? What are your thoughts here? Mr. Markell. Well, there is so much to be said here. I think one of the defining features of a clean-energy economy is that spending that used to be on fuels is spending on manufactured items. So we need to make sure we are attracting the clean-energy manufacturing sector to the United States so that we can get the full benefits of the clean-energy economy. I spend a lot of time thinking about and working on just transition issues. For workers and communities that are losing jobs, at this point primarily coal communities where coal is mined or where coal was burned to make power, the key factor is driving investment to those communities to create new jobs. Training, sorry to say to Members of this committee, training does not create jobs. Jobs create the need for training. And to the extent that we are going to provide a just transition for coal communities, we need to drive investment to those communities, and we need to make sure that those workers understand that, whatever sector they worked in, they are going to have a good job. Mr. Levin. Ms. Gattman, you have a lot of experience in this. What are your thoughts? Ms. Gattman. Sure, Congressman. So one of the things that we looked at, we did a report on outdoor jobs and the outdoor-job sector in Washington State. And one of the things that we recognized from that particular report is we were missing some of the signaling mechanisms to show that some of those green jobs, those outdoor-recreation- type jobs, were in demand. And one of the areas that was really lacking was having occupational data available about the jobs that different employees were using. So, in that particular sector, the employers were saying, ``Hey, we really need folks,'' but the administrative data was not showing the need for that particular sector, so we weren't signaling the need for training and education for that. Mr. Levin. All right. Thanks. My time has expired. I appreciate you all. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. And we will be back after votes. Thank you again. Is that going to be all right for everybody, to stay with us? Great. Thank you. [Recess.] [12:06 p.m.] Chairwoman Davis. Thank you all for your patience. We appreciate it. I want to turn now to Dr. Foxx, the Ranking Member of the Education and Labor Committee. Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I want to thank the witnesses for being here today. Mr. Paretti, although displacement rates have gone down in recent years, it is inevitable we will need to prepare for workforce displacement as our society continues to experience technological changes and shifts in employer priorities. While it is important for us to attempt to minimize the challenges associated with employer innovation, we cannot shackle continued economic growth that provides more jobs and better wages in the long run. Can you please discuss some of the benefits we might see as our Nation increases the use of automation? Given these dynamics, why is it important to be proactive in seeking out solutions? Mr. Paretti. Sure. I think in the long term we will see quite a few--you know, a significant amount of benefit from automation, artificial intelligence. And that starts with increased productivity, which can lead to increased wages, increased spending. So the quality of jobs should go up as more routine jobs are perhaps displaced. I am not suggesting we should encourage that very quickly, but I think, if it is going to happen, we need to be prepared for it and to do it. I, too, would be concerned with, sort of, shackling ourselves to an older, outdated model. I mean, the face of work has changed so dramatically and is changing so dramatically that, you know, the words I hear most when I talk to folks in this space are things like ``agile,'' ``nimble,'' ``dynamic,'' being able to respond and provide. And I think that is what-- you know, employers have every incentive to do that too. The last thing you want, you know, is to lose valued employees and valued knowledge. Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much. I was thinking, as you were talking, about the turn of the century, when cars were created, and thinking, probably a lot of people thought it was the end of the world, we were going to stop making wagons, stop making buggy whips, and things like that. But look at the magnificent numbers of jobs that came around as a result of cars being created in our culture. Mr. Paretti, you described in your testimony the example of Cargill, a company who focuses on upskilling their employees and was then able to provide higher skilled positions to 90 percent of those same employees. This seems outside the norm of the typical zero-sum narrative surrounding displacement. What value is there for companies who focus on these types of workforce development efforts in the face of potential disruption? Is this something more companies can do? And can most companies do this? Mr. Paretti. Well, obviously, each company's response is going to be individualized to itself, but Cargill, which I discuss in my testimony, does offer a great example. They were going through a plant closure. They recognized that--and for a period of time, it was then going to upskill and automate the plant. They realized that it would be difficult for them to attract jobs, you know, people to fill these new jobs that were going to be created, and they had a valuable workforce, many of whom had invested time, energy, and resources in the company. They made the decision that, during that closure, they provided access to training programs, they partnered with a local community college in doing so, and, at the end of the day, yes, were able to bring back something like 90 percent of the workforce, most of them in better-paying and higher-paying positions, more skilled positions. Is that the norm? I would hesitate to say it is typical. Is it something that we might aspire to and encourage and foster companies to make those sorts of investments? To the extent that is within your power, our power, I would certainly hope so. Ms. Foxx. Well, I think, again, over the years, as you say, it really is in the interest of the employer to do whatever possible to keep their business going. They face the same kinds of challenges if they are not able to help the employees upskill. I think too often in this setting here we hear such negative things about employers and how they are taking advantage of employees and don't care about them, so I think having good examples like that is really important. And my experience is that is what is happening all over the country. Employers understand, if they want to stay in business, number one, they have to treat their employees well, and they have to plan for the future. And I am not sure that there is a great understanding on some of our colleagues of the very positive way that employers face these challenges. So thank you very much. And thank you, Madam Chairman. Mr. Paretti. Thank you, Doctor. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Dr. Adams, the gentlelady from North Carolina. Ms. Adams. Thank you, Chairwoman Davis, Ranking Member Smucker, for convening the hearing today. And thank you all for your testimony. U.S. investment in the public workforce system is sorely inadequate and has declined sharply in recent decades. For example, the National Skills Coalition finds that, since 2001, WIOA funding has been cut by 40 percent, career and technical education funding by 29 percent, and adult basic education by almost 15 percent. The United States spends about 0.1 percent of gross domestic product, or GDP, on workforce development, compared to about six times as much in other developed nations. Mr. Harris, I will start with you. Why has public investment in workforce development declined so sharply in recent decades? And what are the consequences of this reduced investment? Mr. Harris. Congresswoman, it is certainly not because we don't have a need. We absolutely have demand among workers for these services. I think, frankly, that it is a failure of political will. It is really incumbent upon Congress to provide those resources. Let me add one additional statistic to the ones that you cited, all of which are exactly on point. Among the countries that are members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, 28 of them, we are second-to-last in public investment per GDP. Mexico is the only country that does worse. We are behind Latvia, Estonia, and Poland in our investment in workforce development. So I agree with the import of your question. We need to do dramatically more to invest in these things in order for workers to get the training they need. They can't finance it themselves. Ms. Adams. Right. Thank you very much. One of the things that I have heard from our county workforce boards in North Carolina is that there isn't enough of a focus by state and local policymakers on finding work for displaced workers and that the framework which gives youth apprenticeships, needed skills, and training is not well- aligned for that purpose, particularly since WIOA is underfunded and not fully implemented. Ms. Gattman, your State's Future of Work Task Force report recommends supporting the workforce board's request for additional funding for incumbent worker training. So can you explain the focus on incumbent worker training? For example, did the task force identify the lack of private-sector investment in incumbent training? And what are the barriers to that investment that make public investment necessary? Ms. Gattman. Sure. Thank you, Congresswoman. So one of the things--it wasn't necessarily a lack of private-sector investment in incumbent worker training, but the task force did recognize that many States put money into--put a lot of State money into this game and in a lot of flexible ways, which allowed for some innovative approaches. Incumbent worker training is a co-invested model. It is flexible to employer needs. And then it ideally allows them to upskill existing talent to sustain and scale growth. This is then complemented--one of the things we have been trying to do a lot more in our State--complementing this by a backfill component, where our public systems can then help those employers who are upskilling their employees find the right talent to fill those often entry-level positions. Some of the new technologies that can eliminate or greatly reduce the need for skilled workers can also be of great interest to businesses who struggle to fill positions. We did find that in rural communities without adequate education and training resources, technology can be a really enticing way to address some of their workforce concerns. So, you know, we want to create the right conditions for businesses to upskill their workers, rather than choose to automate those jobs, to address recruitment or retention issues. So we believe public funding can definitely make a difference there, but it certainly should have a co-investment model of some sort so there is employer participation. Ms. Adams. Thank you very much. Let me move quickly. Mr. Markell, why has employers' investment in worker training and skill development decreased? What can be done to change employers' incentives to invest in their workers? Mr. Markell. Boy, that is the gazillion-dollar question in a lot of respects, because unions really go hard at employers, trying to bargain money for training programs. They understand why training is important to their career. And the understanding that people cannot pay for their own training, that they don't have the information they need to decide where they should be trained to work, they should try to be trained, really points to the idea that we need public investment in this area. If we are going to put everybody on a level playing field, we have got to meet people where they are, and that is going to take cash. Ms. Adams. Great. Thank you very much. And, Madam Chairman, I am out of time, and I yield back. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. The gentleman from California, Mr. Takano. Mr. Takano. Thank you, Chairwoman Davis and Ranking Member Smucker, for this important hearing on the future of work. This is not a question of, will displacement happen? The question is, when will it happen? And when it does happen, we need to be prepared to provide the American workers with resources to help them during what will inevitably be a hard time for workers and their families. In 2007, we experienced the worst economic recession since the Great Depression. And in Riverside, California, my district, the unemployment rate reached a peak of 14.4 percent in 2010. This was common throughout the country. In some months, there were as many as 800,000 jobs lost. I am sure we all remember that time. Mr. Harris, when you assumed your role as Deputy Secretary at the Labor Department in 2009, you had inherited the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. I don't need to tell you what a heavy toll displacement during a recession can exact on workers, their families, communities, and the economy. Your job was to get millions of people back to work. You had certain tools to work with back then, including existing workforce development laws, unemployment insurance, and, of course, the Recovery Act. The efforts of the Obama administration over its 8 years put us on an upward trajectory of job growth which continues to this day. But the next recession, while unpredictable, we can reasonably assume it is going to happen. So, Mr. Harris, what changes should policymakers be making to our workforce system today to prepare for the next recession in order to both avert displacement to the greatest possible extent and to adequately address displacement when it does occur? Mr. Harris. Well, Congressman, you are exactly right, recessions don't just temporarily throw people out of jobs; they permanently destroy a large number of jobs, and workers are dislocated and don't have any place to go back to. They need time and they need income so that they can acquire the skills and knowledge that they need and that they can do the job search that they need to be able to do. They need programs that will quickly and efficiently and effectively move them into new demand jobs in their economy. And they also need help understanding which jobs they should get into and what training and credentials they need in order to get into those jobs. And let me just say, your reference to the Recovery Act, I think, is very important. President Obama's Recovery Act did exactly what was needed. It doubled the money that the Labor Department had for WIOA programs and the Wagner-Peyser Employment Service. It provided extended unemployment compensation. It created the TAACCCT grants that I was talking about before. We need all of those things in place for the next recession. Let me also say, we don't have to say that there is a skills gap to say that we need job training. There is no skills gap. That is a false argument. And people are pointing to the JOLTS study to show that there is a skills gap. That is not what that study shows. If there was a skills gap, we would see dramatically increasing real wages, including in the industries that complain the most that they can't find workers. We are not seeing that. We would see employers dramatically increasing training and investment in job training. We are not seeing that. We would see them buying labor-saving devices. Business investment is down in the United States. We would see them demanding that their current workers increase their number of hours worked. That is not happening. We are not seeing median or average hours worked increasing. And there are 4 million involuntary part-time workers in the United States right now. They want to work full-time. Their employers are not employing them full-time. That is not what happens when you have a skills shortage. So I really dislike this argument that there is a skills gap, because it suggests that it is workers' fault. If only they would get the training, everything would be just fine. It is not workers' fault. It is the kind of displacement that you were talking about, the dislocation that doesn't just happen from recessions, it happens from multiple causes. And that is what we need to be prepared for now and in preparation for the next recession. Mr. Takano. Given that answer, what tools can Congress provide to state and local lawmakers that will--or what tools can we generally, I mean, not just with the State and local lawmakers, but what tools can we avail policymakers out there to avert the brunt of a recession? Mr. Harris. They need a lot more money. They need the availability of Pell grants, but they need more money in that system. They need a lot more money in the WIOA system. They need help from us to mandate credential transparency. We need a radical transparency movement in credentials so that the bad credentials, the useless credentials that workers are buying that aren't leading anywhere can drop out of the system. And we need a program like the TAACCCT program, not just organized around climate change, but organized much more broadly than that so that we can bring employers and training providers together to build the programs that we need for workers to get the skills for in-demand jobs in their communities. Mr. Takano. Madam Chair, might I ask one more question, or should I yield back? Chairwoman Davis. I think we are just going to go on to the next-- Mr. Takano. Okay. I will yield back, Madam Chair. Chairwoman Davis. Yeah. Thank you very much. We now turn to the ranking chair of the subcommittee, Mr. Smucker, the gentleman from Pennsylvania. Mr. Smucker. Thank you, Madam Chair. Professor Harris, in your written testimony--I would like to, sort of, understand your view on the labor outlook, because it is different than Mr. Paretti's view. I am going to come to Mr. Paretti as well. But you say that you see no evidence of loss of employment triggered by new technologies like artificial intelligence. You do not believe that there will be a massive displacement. Am I correct on that? Mr. Harris. No. My argument is that the jobs apocalypse that people talk about coming from AI, where we will see a decline in total employment in the United States, I don't believe we are going to see a decline in total employment. I think there is no question that AI and other technologies, along with a long list of other causes, cause displacement to workers, so I think Mr. Paretti and I largely agree. I may not put as much emphasis on-- Mr. Smucker. So you don't see a decline in employment; you just see a change in the type of employment. Mr. Harris. Right. Well, I see workers being thrown out of jobs, but I don't see total employment in the economy declining because of AI. Some people are arguing that. I am not saying Mr. Paretti is arguing that, but there are a lot of people arguing that. I don't think it is true. Mr. Smucker. Yeah. Mr. Paretti, you mentioned in your testimony several times that 85 percent of all jobs that will exist in 2040 have not yet been created. Mr. Paretti. Certainly a substantial number, yes. Mr. Smucker. And so I think maybe you are saying the same thing in a different way. But you also say that the situation is not necessarily as dire-- Mr. Paretti. Right. Mr. Smucker.--as the statistics may lead us to believe. So I just wonder if you could expand on that a little bit. Mr. Paretti. Sure. Happy to. And I will note, you know, damn it, Seth, I was looking to have a fight with you. It is not an Ed and Labor Committee hearing without a donnybrook, but we keep agreeing. I don't think--I wholeheartedly--we are not looking at the jobs apocalypse, where, oh, my goodness, overnight we are going to have all of these folks who have nothing. I do think, if we don't prepare for it, we risk that possibility. You know, the number is great, but, at the same time, you will be seeing increased opportunities. Total employment will increase. The type of work will be different, in some instances. You know, easy examples: In hotels now, you might no longer have someone who--more and more, particularly in big hotels, you have check-in kiosks where you can--beep, beep, beep, beep. You don't have to stand in the line. They give you your room key, and you are all set. So you maybe need fewer folks working the check-in desk. What you need more of, particularly if you are now able to service more guests at your hotel, are folks in the concierge office or folks in the guest services offices--higher-skilled positions, more human-focused, more human-facing, skills that can be readily attained. You may not have them if currently your job is checking in folks and only using that system, but you certainly can attain those skills. And if your employer is good, they are going to want to work with you to attain those skills. I would rather-- Mr. Smucker. Sure. Mr. Paretti.--take an employee who I know has done good work in this position and train them in-- Mr. Smucker. That leads me--and I am sorry, I only have 2 more minutes. So it does lead me to my next question. Maybe it is more of a comment. You know, I have a little trouble with the narrative in the hearing today that the Federal Government is really the entity that is meant to solve this problem. Like, we should certainly be part of that solution; we should be looking ahead to try and understand what is going to happen and make sure that we have policies in place that provide the best pathway for employers to change jobs or to enter the workforce for the first time. But I believe in free enterprise. I believe that our capitalist system has a way of addressing needs and has done so for many, many decades. So I guess my question to you, Mr. Paretti--and if we have time, we will allow others to answer it as well, but--what is the role of the private sector? I know that a lot of businesses are investing in their employees. So, for instance, Chairwoman Foxx mentioned earlier a company. I know that Uber recently--I just learned they provide access to fully funded education to more than 250,000 drivers. Starbucks does-- Mr. Paretti. Sure. Mr. Smucker.--a similar kind of thing. There are businesses all over. What is the role of the private sector, the business world, in ensuring that employees or that workers are ready to meet the jobs that will be coming down the pike? Mr. Paretti. Sure. A couple of thoughts there. First, insofar as, you know, employers are job creators and you need a workforce to do them, it is in your economic self- interest and best interest to attract and retain a talented workforce. You mentioned Uber, and they allow drivers a certain credit. I understand that is actually even transferable. If I want to work part-time and be driving for Uber so that I can give these credits to my child or to my spouse or something, that is something they also do. I wholeheartedly agree--and I think Ms. Gattman here--and her work is great testimony--this is not a top-down solution. I don't think that the Federal Government should be the ones to say, ``Here is how we are going to fix this, and we are going to push this down onto you.'' I think they can foster innovation. I think they can remove, you know, roadblocks along the way and foster a climate. I recommend in my testimony, I discuss something called the AI Jobs Act, which has broad, bipartisan support and really, I think, an appropriate role for the Federal Government, which is to say: Okay, what can we learn--we have the resources to learn here and to, you know, give folks information that they can then take on the local level, on the State level. The Congresswoman who left recently said, you know, too often the States aren't doing it. I think the States are doing better than the feds. And I think, in some instances, locals are doing better than the States. Not in Washington. But I think that all of those are things that we should be fostering. And that is where you all and where the Federal Government and where Congress, I think, can help us most. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I now turn to Chairman Scott, the gentleman from Virginia. Mr. Scott. Thank you very much. And I want to thank our witnesses. This has been very helpful. And I will start with questions to Ms. Gattman. The WIOA boards should be in the middle of this. Can you tell us what the WIOA boards are doing in terms of forecasting future job needs? And particularly they are relevant because that forecast would focus on the local job needs, where the jobs will actually be needed. Could you talk about that a little bit? Ms. Gattman. Sure. Thank you, Chairman. So one of the things that we work really closely with our partner agency, the Employment Security Department, we don't always know what credentials are in demand, so that is one factor. But we are using States' unemployment insurance data to determine which occupations are in demand. And so, with this information, the State provides what is called our Demand/Decline List. And that is set up by region, and it shows not only which occupations are in demand but also how much they pay in particular areas of the State. Understanding which occupations are in demand, of course, allows our State residents to use a program that we have that the workforce board--it is our website Career Bridge, which allows them to find the education and training that they need to find that particular job. Career Bridge is a public-facing website. We had over 7 million page views last year. So, you know, that is something-- we really promote that as an option for anyone looking for particular education and training opportunities to find which occupations are in demand and then find those local training opportunities. Mr. Scott. Yeah. Are most WIOA boards doing this? Ms. Gattman. No. Our Career Bridge website is actually pretty unique in the Nation for the amount of detail it has, because it also provides that performance-results aspect, where, for over half the programs, we can give you performance results of how the participants fared in the various programs. Mr. Scott. Now, one of the concerns we have is we may be training--the number of people who are being trained for the jobs of the future may be totally insufficient to address the need. I mean, are we training thousands, where the need is in the millions? Are we anywhere close to addressing the need? Ms. Gattman. You know, I will say that is one of those issues where, you know, we just don't know. The future of work is evolving so quickly that, you know, we are all doing our best to forecast what we are going to see and what jobs we need training for. And, you know, some of that is hampered by the lack of data that we have available. And I spoke about occupational data as one area where we do have a gap. And knowing that information would allow us to better forecast what is available. Mr. Scott. Several of you have mentioned the Trade Adjustment Assistance Community College Career Training, and we have also talked about the fact that students aren't able to fully fund their transition. Can somebody talk about the cost of the program, how it is funded, and who pays the tuition, and how successful they are? Mr. Harris. The TAACCCT program was $2 billion over 4 years, spent out over a total--until 2018. It is all spent down now. It was capacity-building money. It was not supposed to pay for intuition. So it created programs at community colleges and universities in partnership with employers. It built curricula, hired instructors, learned about how to work with employers, included employers in the development of those programs. And as I said earlier in the hearing, extremely successful. But now there is no more money. Mr. Scott. Well, how do you measure success? Mr. Harris. Measured success based on credential attainment, employment outcomes, program completion. All of those went up with the program. And, also, there was a qualitative study done that showed that employers who were involved in the TAACCCT program had much, much, much higher-quality engagement with their community colleges than they would have otherwise. Mr. Scott. Mr. Markell, you mentioned the PRO Act. How would passage of the PRO Act help job policy? Mr. Markell. I am sorry. Would you-- Mr. Scott. You mentioned the Protecting the Right to Organize Act. How would passage of that help developing job policy? Mr. Markell. So, when workers have a voice and when they have institutional power, they are able to achieve better adjustments and better outcomes, whether it is through upskilling of current jobs or trying to move on to new jobs and find retraining money and programs that will allow them to be more valued in the marketplace. Without an institutional voice, workers are out there on their own with not enough information, with not enough organized power to effect their situation. So the passage of the PRO Act opens up all kinds of possibilities. The passage of the PRO Act will make more space on climate than anything we could do, because it will assure workers that the next job they have is going to be a good job. It is an extremely important piece of legislation that will rebalance the labor market and give workers a chance to improve their situation. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. The gentlelady from Nevada, Mrs. Lee. Mrs. Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you all for being here. This is a particularly important issue for me, as I represent Las Vegas and Henderson area, and Las Vegas happens to be the U.S. city most at risk of losing jobs to automation. And, in fact, according to a University of Redlands study, in the next 20 years, 65 percent of the city's jobs could be automated. Mr. Markell, in a recent report of the AFL-CIO's Commission on the Future of Work and Unions, it recognizes just how central workers of color and women are to the future of the Nation's workforce and labor movement. People of color will constitute the majority of the U.S. population by 2045, and, in just 5 years, women are predicted to make up more than half of all union members. A number of organizations have conducted research that demonstrates that workers of color are more vulnerable to displacement, particularly from automation. Similarly, research shows that women workers are more concentrated in those jobs that are exposed to technological changes than men, such as cashiers, secretaries, and bookkeepers. The pain of displacement for these workers will be compounded by the preexisting racial and gender wage gaps they already face. In my home State, unions have negotiated with casinos, taking into account the potential effects of automation on workers. And I would like to ask you a two-part question, Mr. Markell. First, what particular protections against displacement and its harms can the labor movement offer to workers of color and women? And, secondly, what strategies have the AFL-CIO and other labor groups adopted to better address the causes of displacement that affect these groups of workers? Mr. Markell. Thank you, Congresswoman. As you know, Las Vegas is home to one of the premier labor management training organizations in the country, the Culinary Academy of Las Vegas. They are a partner of the Working for America Institute. And UNITE HERE!, the union--it is Local 226 there--has done exemplary bargaining, both with the casinos and with Marriott, around advance notice and upstream involvement of the workers in deciding how technology change is going to be implemented in the workplace. And with those workforces being, in both cases, majority- women and majority-people-of-color, it is that worker voice that gives them a fair shake. It is really important to avoid displacement by making sure that we are understanding how the tasks at these workplaces are changing as technology comes in. With the organized voice that UNITE HERE! provides, with the contract provisions that are available to make sure that the workforce is informed and has a chance at training, we do the best to avoid displacement. Union contracts are the best protection against disparities in the workplace. For example, the wage gap that women suffer. There is no wage gap in a union contract. It says, you do job X, you get pay Y. It doesn't matter, race, creed, or color, who you are. And so, for workers to be able to understand that, when they have a collective voice, they are on a level playing field with the entire workforce, that is the--it just means so much to people in their jobs. Secondly, the building trades are a great example. They are continually scanning the environment for new technologies. They are almost paranoid about understanding that they need to be on the cutting edge of whatever new technologies are coming in. I always give the example of the IBEW. Solar power is gaining in the United States. In Las Vegas, across the Southeast, solar is become increasingly competitive. For years, the IBEW has incorporated solar technician training into its electrician's apprenticeship so that, as you are becoming a journeyperson electrician, you become skilled and valuable in all assets of solar installation. That is the kind of incumbent worker protection that can prevent job loss, that is on the cutting edge of technology, and that we are making investments in, over $1.5 billion a year in private investments, in the building trades system. Mrs. Lee. Thank you. Thank you, and I yield. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. And we will now go to Mr. Trone, the gentleman from Maryland. Mr. Trone. Thank you, Chairwoman Davis and Ranking Member Smucker, for holding this hearing today. I want to talk about an issue that is very important to my constituents: mass layoffs and plant closures. Luke Paper Mill was the center of life in Luke, Maryland, for the last 131 years. When the mill closed in June, it left 675 hardworking men and women of the United Steelworkers without a job and affected nearly 2,000 others employed by that business in the community. This summer, I learned firsthand the shortcomings of the Worker Adjustment and Retraining Act, or the WARN Act, with the closing of Luke. This is why I joined Congressman Tim Ryan in introducing legislation that would strengthen the WARN Act to give workers and communities the notice they need to best prepare for when the unimaginable happens. The Fair Warning Act would increase the number of companies required to give employers impending notice and also require employers an additional 30 days' notice prior to mass layoffs and direct the State to establish a rapid response committee so employees can quickly get training, support services they need to prepare for the job loss. Mr. Markell, how can we better advance notice site closings and mass layoffs--how can that better notice serve impacted workers? And, also, what are some of the typical benefits and services available for those impacted by site closings and mass layoffs? And talk about why they are so important. Mr. Markell. Thank you, Congressman. That paper mill closure is a tragedy. I met the president of that Steelworkers local at the Maryland State AFL-CIO convention. Rapid response is--of course we need better notice and we need plans for workplaces that we think are at risk. That paper mill was threatened by foreign competition, unfair competition, in many respects. And so fixing our trade laws is a big part of what we need to do. We also need to identify facilities that are at risk way ahead of when we think that they might be actually faced with a business decision. So, in the paper industry in the United States, there have been closures all over the United States for many, many years. And so it was predictable that when a new owner came in there was going to be a cost squeeze and that investment could be lacking. If we go upstream way before we think that there might be a business decision, we can address the competitive position of that facility. We can help them afford new capital investments, if that is what is needed. And I think that, had we taken a look at that mill a year, a year and a half ago, we could have made moves that would put it in a position to stay open. Mr. Trone. Thank you. Dr. Harris, many former Luke Mill employees are still unemployed and trying to get back up on their feet. I was glad to see in your testimony discussion today around intensive services, or what WOIA refers to as individual career services, which include comprehensive assessments, job search activities, development of career service plans, one-on-one career counseling, case management, et cetera. Can you speak to why these services are so important and what evidence we have to show that they are a good return on investment? Mr. Harris. Yes. Thank you, Congressman. Let me say, there is a lot of evidence that they work. There was a gold standard study done for the Labor Department. We hired Mathematica and some of its partners to do a study. It showed that intensive services increased median annual earnings between $3,700 and $7,100 for workers, mostly because it gets them into jobs much more quickly. And, also, there is a lot of evidence from the Reemployment Eligibility Assessments, which is in the UI system, which are now called RESEAs, we did a series of studies, three studies, that showed that they also work. It reduces the length of time of unemployment. It reduces the amount of unemployment benefits that are collected. Workers get into jobs much, much more quickly. So I think that intensive services should be available to absolutely everyone, not limited to people who are unemployed, not limited to people who are on the verge of being thrown out of jobs. It should be available to incumbent workers. It should be available to people who are entering into the labor market. It is for people who are out of the labor market, to help them get back into the labor market. It really helps to give them a map through a very complicated field of jobs and credentials and skills so that they can figure out what is going to work for me. Mr. Trone. Thank you. I yield back. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. I wanted to just remind all the Members that we have until January 6 to submit materials for the record. Chairwoman Davis. And I certainly want to thank all of our witnesses today. What we have heard is very valuable. I think there is, you know, a lot of good work that has been done, tremendously so. And on the other hand, as I said earlier, sometimes we have to kind of rethink, because we are in a new time that really requires a different perspective. And, at this point, I wanted to recognize the distinguished Ranking Member for his closing statement. Mr. Smucker. Thank you. And I would like to thank each of the witnesses as well for being here today to talk about this important topic. I think it is clear. And in answer to my question, you clarified that we all know that the economy and the needs of the labor market are changing, and so the future of work will require different skills than are required today. So it is a reality that I think workers, employers, families face every day. And we certainly don't want to slow down innovation. We want to continue to allow those jobs to be created. We want the economy or technology to bring those changes, but we also must work to ensure that pathways and opportunities for those facing displacement, they exist, that they will have the ability to acquire skills that will allow them to continue to be competitive. And with the skills gap growing by the day, 7 million unfilled jobs across the Nation, what better time now than to be thinking of--I know you disagree with that one--but what better time than now to be thinking about how we can help workers who will be faced with those conditions. I mentioned earlier, and if I had more time in my questioning, I would have said it as well. I really believe that much of the change that occurs happens organically and naturally, with the investment of labor, with the investment of businesses who benefit from their employees gaining those new skills. But I also think there is a role for the Federal Government at a time that a plant closes, at a time when there is a particular need. And so I think this is the beginning of really a conversation that we could have about what the Federal Government's role is and then how we can be most effective in that. So I would love to have more time, and I am sure we will continue this discussion in the future, but thank you to each of you for being here to discuss this important topic, and thank you for scheduling this. Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Again, thank you for your contributions here today. We appreciate it. And I think I particularly acknowledge that in many cases we have far more agreement than disagreement on this. And sometimes it is a matter of approach and acknowledging that, clearly, government can't do it all, but government does have the power and the resources to be able to look ahead, hopefully, and be able to adjust and be flexible in that regard, in terms of the needs of the workforce, and acknowledging that, regardless of the cause of the displacement, there is still a need out there. And I think it is particularly important when we know that the lack of action hampers American workers' and businesses' ability to really remain competitive. You all talked about the fact that, you know, we are not just competing against ourselves, one State against another, but it is against the world in many cases. And if we don't act, if we don't acknowledge that need, then we really are not being true, I think, to the very workers who make our country run, who help our country to be as worthy in many ways as it can be, especially for our families, for our workers throughout the country. So we know that is critical. You all mention the investments in workforce development that match our dire need are important, that we can reshape workforce programs, and that we also want to make sure that people have the ability to retain the skills that are in demand. One of the things that we did not mention is the fact that many women, particularly, who were assistants, executive assistants throughout our country, administrative assistants, are seen to be--will be one of the largest groups that is in need of education, training, and I think creativity, imagination, in trying to understand how we can be certain that they don't lose the ability to contribute to our economy in the future. And that is important as well. So thank you for coming together to talk about strengthening the future, not only of our workplaces, but our communities, our economy, and certainly our country. I appreciate it. We are adjourned. [Whereupon, at 12:50 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] [all]