[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


               REAUTHORIZING THE NATIONAL APPRENTICESHIP
                     ACT: STRENGTHENING AND GROWING
                  APPRENTICESHIPS FOR THE 21ST CENTURY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

       SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE INVESTMENT


                         COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION
                               AND LABOR
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                     ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

             HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, MARCH 4, 2020

                               __________

                           Serial No. 116-55

                               __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and Labor
      
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]      


    Available via the: https://edlabor.house.gov or www.govinfo.gov
    
                                __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
41-102 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022                     
          
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                    COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR

             ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia, Chairman

Susan A. Davis, California           Virginia Foxx, North Carolina,
Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona            Ranking Member
Joe Courtney, Connecticut            David P. Roe, Tennessee
Marcia L. Fudge, Ohio                Glenn Thompson, Pennsylvania
Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan,      Tim Walberg, Michigan
  Northern Mariana Islands           Brett Guthrie, Kentucky
Frederica S. Wilson, Florida         Bradley Byrne, Alabama
Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon             Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Mark Takano, California              Elise M. Stefanik, New York
Alma S. Adams, North Carolina        Rick W. Allen, Georgia
Mark DeSaulnier, California          Lloyd Smucker, Pennsylvania
Donald Norcross, New Jersey          Jim Banks, Indiana
Pramila Jayapal, Washington          Mark Walker, North Carolina
Joseph D. Morelle, New York          James Comer, Kentucky
Susan Wild, Pennsylvania             Ben Cline, Virginia
Josh Harder, California              Russ Fulcher, Idaho
Lucy McBath, Georgia                 Steve Watkins, Kansas
Kim Schrier, Washington              Ron Wright, Texas
Lauren Underwood, Illinois           Daniel Meuser, Pennsylvania
Jahana Hayes, Connecticut            Dusty Johnson, South Dakota
Donna E. Shalala, Florida            Fred Keller, Pennsylvania
Andy Levin, Michigan*                Gregory F. Murphy, North Carolina
Ilhan Omar, Minnesota                Jefferson Van Drew, New Jersey
David J. Trone, Maryland
Haley M. Stevens, Michigan
Susie Lee, Nevada
Lori Trahan, Massachusetts
Joaquin Castro, Texas
* Vice-Chair

                   Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director
                 Brandon Renz, Minority Staff Director
                                 ------                                

       SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE INVESTMENT

                 SUSAN A. DAVIS, California, Chairwoman


Joe Courtney, Connecticut            Lloyd Smucker, Pennsylvania,
Mark Takano, California                Ranking Member
Pramila Jayapal, Washington          Brett Guthrie, Kentucky
Josh Harder, California              Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Andy Levin, Michigan                 Elise Stefanik, New York
Ilhan Omar, Minnesota                Jim Banks, Indiana
David Trone, Maryland                Mark Walker, North Carolina
Susie Lee, Nevada                    James Comer, Kentucky
Lori Trahan, Massachusetts           Ben Cline, Virginia
Joaquin Castro, Texas                Russ Fulcher, Idaho
Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona            Steve C. Watkins, Jr., Kansas
Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan,      Dan Meuser, Pennsylvania
  Northern Mariana Islands           Gregory F. Murphy, North Carolina
Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon
Alma S. Adams, North Carolina
Donald Norcross, New Jersey
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing held on March 4, 2020....................................     1

Statement of Members:
    Davis, Hon. Susan A., Chairwoman, Subcommittee on Higher 
      Education and Workforce Investment.........................     1
        Prepared statement of....................................     4
    Smucker, Hon. Lloyd, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Higher 
      Education and Workforce Investment.........................     6
        Prepared statement of....................................     7

Statement of Witnesses:
    Bustillo, Daniel, Executive Director, Healthcare Career 
      Advancement Program........................................    35
        Prepared statement of....................................    38
    Foy, Morna K., Ph.D., President, Wisconsin Technical College 
      System.....................................................    19
        Prepared statement of....................................    22
    Noteboom, Jace, Talent Director: IBM Systems, Watson Health, 
      Cognitive Enterprise Support, IBM..........................    26
        Prepared statement of....................................    29
    Robinson, Tiffany P., Esquire, Secretary, Maryland Department 
      of Labor...................................................    10
        Prepared statement of....................................    12

Additional Submissions:
    Guthrie, Hon. Brett, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Kentucky:
        Link to Consumer Technology Association: Why Tech 
          Companies ShouldOffer Apprenticeships..................   187
    Jayapal, Hon. Pramila, a Representative in Congress from the 
      State of Washington:
        2019 Annual Report: WSDOT Office of Equal Opportunity, 
          Pre-Apprentice Support Services and On-the-Job Training 
          Support Services Program...............................    84
        Article: Amber--Breaking Down barriers To A Brighter 
          Future.................................................   102
        WSLC: Washington Apprenticeship Growth and Expansion 
          Study..................................................   105
    Scott, Hon. Robert "Bobby", a Representative in Congress from 
      the State of Virginia:
        Statement from the Center for Law and Social Policy......    80
    Questions submitted for the record by:
        Sablan, Hon. Gregorio Kilili Camacho, a Representative in 
          Congress from the Northern Mariana Islands 


        Harder, Hon. Josh, a Representative in Congress from the 
          State of California 


    Responses submitted for the record by:
    Mr. Bustillo's response to questions submitted for the record   196
    Ms. Foy's response to questions submitted for the record.....   198
    Ms. Noteboom's response to questions submitted for the record   204
    Ms. Robinson's response to questions submitted for the record   206

 
             REAUTHORIZING THE NATIONAL APPRENTICESHIP ACT:
               STRENGTHENING AND GROWING APPRENTICESHIPS
                          FOR THE 21ST CENTURY

                              ----------                              


                        Wednesday, March 4, 2020

                        House of Representatives

                    Subcommittee on Higher Education

                       and Workforce Investment,

                    Committee on Education and Labor

                            Washington, DC.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m., in 
room 2175, Rayburn House Office Building. Hon. Susan A. Davis 
(Chairwoman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Davis, Courtney, Takano, Jayapal, 
Levin, Trone, Lee, Trahan, Bonamici, Adams, Norcross, Smucker, 
Guthrie, Grothman, Stefanik, Walker, Comer, Cline, Fulcher, 
Watkins, Meuser, and Murphy.
    Also present: Representatives Scott, and Foxx.
    Staff present: Ilana Brunner, General Counsel; Emma Eatman, 
Deputy Press Secretary; Eli Hovland, Staff Assistant; Stephanie 
Lalle, Deputy Communications Director; Jaria Martin, Clerk/
Special Assistant to the Staff Director; Katie McClelland, 
Professional Staff; Kevin McDermott, Senior Labor Policy 
Advisor; Richard Miller, Director of Labor Policy; Katelyn 
Mooney, Associate General Counsel; Max Moore, Staff Assistant; 
Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director; Banyon Vassar, Deputy 
Director of Information Technology; Joshua Weisz, 
Communications Director; Rachel West, Senior Economic Policy 
Advisor; Cyrus Artz, Minority Staff Director; Kelsey Avino, 
Minority Fellow; Courtney Butcher, Minority Director of Member 
Services and Coalitions; Amy Raaf Jones, Minority Director of 
Education and Human Resources Policy; Georgie Littlefair, 
Minority Staff Assistant; Hannah Matesic, Minority Director of 
Operations; Audra McGeorge, Minority Communications Director; 
Jake Middlebrooks, Minority Professional Staff Member; Carlton 
Norwood, Minority Press Secretary; Chance Russell, Minority 
Legislative Assistant; Mandy Schaumburg, Minority Chief Counsel 
and Deputy Director of Education Policy, and Brad Thomas, 
Minority Senior Education Policy Advisor.
    Chairwoman Davis. The Subcommittee on Higher Education and 
Workforce Investment will come to order. I want to welcome 
everyone here this morning. I note that a quorum is present and 
we are able to move on.
    I also want to note for the subcommittee that Ms. Susan 
Wild of Pennsylvania, Ms. Lucy McBath of Georgia, and Ms. 
Jahana Hayes of Connecticut are permitted to participate in 
today's hearing with the understanding that their questions 
will come only after Members on the subcommittee from both 
sides of the aisle who are present have had an opportunity to 
question the witnesses.
    The Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce 
Investment is meeting today in a legislative hearing to hear 
testimony on Reauthorizing the National Apprenticeship Act: 
Strengthening and Growing Apprenticeships for the 21st Century.
    Pursuant to Committee Rule 7(c), opening Statements are 
limited to the Chair and the Ranking Member, and this allows us 
to hear from our witnesses sooner and provides all members with 
adequate time to ask questions. I am going to recognize myself 
now for the purpose of making an opening Statement.
    I look around this room and I see that everyone here is 
deeply committed to the mission of giving everyone in this 
country a fair shot at achieving the American Dream. While we 
might emphasize different means by which to reach this goal, 
the fact of the matter is that our best efforts moving forward 
will ultimately incorporate a lot more than one single answer 
or pathway.
    Many Americans believe that attending a traditional 4-year 
college is critical to obtaining economic success. But this 
specific path of obtaining a higher education may not be the 
best fit for everyone. We are here today because we want to 
give that conversation a fresh look and acknowledge that we 
need to do a better job of ensuring that people, whether young 
students or mid-career workers, understand the many pathways 
they have to accessing the high-quality lifelong learning 
opportunities that apprenticeships provide.
    We have all heard the success stories, and I think you are 
going to tell us some today, of people participating in 
Registered Apprenticeship Programs. And I have been most 
impressed by the people I have spoken to who have started as an 
apprenticeship and then became the CEO of the company that they 
apprenticed for. These programs combine business needs with 
quality training standards and have a long track record of 
success.
    First enacted in 1937, the National Apprenticeship Act has 
provided, and continues to provide, hundreds of thousands of 
workers each year with access to paid, on-the-job learning 
opportunities.
    Registered Apprenticeships are unquestionably the Nation's 
most successful federally funded work force development 
initiative, and we are here today to ensure this success is 
part of our national conversation about pathways to and 
continuing higher education.
    According to the Department of Labor, 94 percent of people 
who complete Registered Apprenticeships are employed upon 
completion, earning an average starting wage of above 70,000 
annually. That probably surprises people, I think.
    As this committee has discussed in previous hearings, the 
success of these programs is not a mystery. Thanks to high-
quality standards, close engagement with industry, and strong 
worker protections, Registered Apprenticeships provide 
apprenticeships with wages and benefits that increase as 
apprentices build skills and competencies, portable and 
stackable credentials that are nationally recognized and valued 
by employers, and advancement in a rewarding career path.
    Registered Apprenticeships are also important to our 
Nation's employers. By offering successful apprenticeship 
opportunities, employers build a talent pipeline of dedicated 
workers who are more likely to remain at their jobs for long 
periods of time.
    For every dollar that employers invest in apprenticeships, 
they receive $1.47 in increased productivity, reduced waste, 
and greater innovation.
    In response to the rising demand for Registered 
Apprenticeships, Federal, State, and private initiatives have 
created hundreds of thousands of new apprenticeship positions 
over the last several years.
    Today, Registered Apprenticeships administered by the DOL 
and the State Apprenticeship Agencies, or S-A-As, can be found 
in over 1,200 occupations, from traditional construction and 
military occupations to the nontraditional occupations such as 
technology, finance, and healthcare careers.
    But we know this, there is significant room for growth. 
Apprenticeships currently account for just three-tenths of 1 
percent of the overall work force. I will say that again, 
three-tenths of 1 percent. Promoting and expanding 
apprenticeship opportunities is one of the most effective 
policy solutions to give hardworking people a clear path to 
financial security for themselves and their families and can 
serve as a jump start for people on their career journeys.
    To help serve as a springboard for this conversation, I 
introduced a discussion draft of the National Apprenticeship 
Act of 2020, a proposed reauthorization of the National 
Apprenticeship Act that will empower more workers and employers 
to participate in our national apprenticeship system. And this 
proposal rests on three key pillars.
    First, it makes historic investments in apprenticeships by 
authorizing $400 million in Federal grants, increasing by 100 
million annually, to: create and expand registered 
apprenticeships, youth apprenticeships, those for young people 
still in school, and pre-apprenticeships, including in 
nontraditional occupations; encourage opportunities for 
individuals who face barriers to employment; support national 
and local intermediaries who play a pivotal role in expanding 
apprenticeships; and better align secondary and postsecondary 
education programs with apprenticeship programs. According to 
our estimates, these steps will create over 1 million 
apprenticeship opportunities over the next 5 years.
    And, second, the proposal authorizes a dedicated, annual 
funding stream for States, which play a critical role in 
expanding apprenticeship opportunities. How do we achieve that? 
Through a new formula fund for State Apprenticeship Agencies 
that will provide consistent and reliable funding for 
apprenticeship programs each year. It also means ensuring that 
States can receive dedicated annual funding while also applying 
for grants to expand apprenticeship opportunities.
    And, third, the proposal reflects the consistent feedback 
that we have heard from employers by streamlining the process 
for registering programs while maintaining Registered 
Apprenticeship Programs of high-quality standards for 
apprenticeship agreements. This streamlining will not only make 
it easier for employers to create apprenticeship opportunities, 
but also make apprenticeship programs more consistent to ensure 
that all programs meet quality standards and uphold worker 
protections.
    Perceptions of apprenticeships vary greatly across the 
country, making it difficult for programs to expand and reach 
their full potential. The proposed reauthorization codifies 
clear definitions and standards for Registered Apprenticeships, 
youth apprenticeships, andpre-apprenticeships, so that we are 
all speaking in a common language about what we mean when we 
talk about the opportunities these programs provides.
    And as I have said before, the Registered Apprenticeship 
system has a proven potential to reach hundreds of thousands, 
if not millions, of American workers. And to that end, 
committee Democrats and Republicans have been working to 
reauthorize the National Apprenticeship Act in a bipartisan 
manner. And I certainly hope that we will continue these 
efforts, we put our differences aside, of course, to reach our 
common goal of helping more people succeed in today's economy 
through the Registered Apprenticeship system.
    Only with these clearly established programs will we ensure 
that families can sit down at the kitchen table, discuss their 
futures, and look to the Registered Apprenticeship system as 
one of many high-quality pathways to postsecondary education 
that lead to the middle class.
    The proposed reauthorization before us takes critical steps 
toward realizing that important goal. And we have an 
opportunity here to receive feedback from key stakeholders and 
make sure this proposal is as strong and effective as possible. 
And that is why you are here today.
    I look forward to working with all my colleagues to advance 
the National Apprenticeship Act of 2020, and I now yield to the 
Ranking Member Mr. Smucker for his opening Statement.
    [The statement of Chairwoman Davis follows:]

Prepared Statement of Hon. Susan A. Davis, Chairwoman, Subcommittee on 
               Higher Education and Workforce Investment

    I look around this room and see that everyone here is deeply 
committed to the mission of giving everyone in this country a fair shot 
at achieving the American Dream.
    Yes, we might emphasize different means by which to reach this 
goal, but the fact of the matter is that our best efforts moving 
forward will ultimately incorporate a lot more than one single answer 
or pathway.
    Many Americans believe that attending a traditional 4-year college 
is critical to obtaining economic success. But this specific path of 
obtaining a higher education is simply not be the best fit for 
everyone. We are here today because we want to give that conversation a 
fresh look and acknowledge that we need to do a better job of ensuring 
that people, whether young students or mid-career workers, understand 
the many pathways they have to accessing the high-quality lifelong 
learning opportunities that apprenticeships provide.
    We have all heard the success stories of people participating in 
Registered Apprenticeship programs-and I have been most impressed by 
the people I've spoken to who started as an apprentice and became the 
CEO! These programs combine business needs with labor demands and have 
a long track record of success.
    First enacted in 1937, the National Apprenticeship Act has 
provided-and continues to provide-hundreds of thousands of workers each 
year with access to paid, on-the-job learning opportunities. Registered 
Apprenticeships are unquestionably the nation's most successful 
federally funded workforce development initiative, and we are here 
today to ensure this success is part of our national conversation about 
pathways to and through higher education.
    According to the Department of Labor, 94 percent of people who 
complete Registered Apprenticeships are employed upon completion, 
earning an average starting wage of above $70,000 annually.
    As this Committee has discussed in previous hearings, the success 
of these programs is not a mystery. Thanks to high-quality standards, 
close engagement with industry, and strong worker protections, 
Registered Apprenticeships provide apprentices with:

   Wages and benefits that increase as apprentices build skills 
        and competencies;

   Portable and stackable credentials that are nationally 
        recognized and valued by employers; and,

   Advancement in a rewarding career path.

    Registered Apprenticeships are also important to our nation's 
employers. By offering successful apprenticeship opportunities, 
employers build a talent pipeline of dedicated workers who are more 
likely to remain at their jobs for long periods of time.
    For every dollar that employers invest in apprenticeships, they 
receive $1.47 in increased productivity, reduced waste, and greater 
innovation.
    In response to the rising demand for Registered Apprenticeships, 
federal, state, and private initiatives have created hundreds of 
thousands of new apprenticeship positions over the last several years.
    Today, Registered Apprenticeships administered by DOL and State 
Apprenticeship Agencies, or S-A-As, can be found in over 1,200 
occupations, from traditional construction and military occupations to 
new technology, finance, and health care careers.
    But there is still significant room for growth. Apprenticeships 
currently account for just three-tenths of one percent of the overall 
workforce. Promoting and expanding apprenticeship opportunities is one 
of the most effective policy solutions to give hardworking people a 
clear path to financial security for themselves and their families and 
can serve as a jump start for people on their career journeys.
    To help serve as a springboard for this conversation, I introduced 
a discussion draft of the National Apprenticeship Act of 2020, a 
proposed reauthorization of the National Apprenticeship Act, that will 
empower more workers and employers to participate in our national 
apprenticeship system.
    This proposal rests on three key pillars.

    First, it makes historic investments in apprenticeships by 
        authorizing $400 million in federal grants, increasing by $100 
        million annually, to:

     Create and expand registered apprenticeships, youth 
            apprenticeships, and pre-apprenticeships, including in non-
            traditional occupations;
     Encourage opportunities for individuals who face barriers 
            to employment;
     Support national and local intermediaries who play a 
            pivotal role in expanding apprenticeships; and
     Better align secondary and postsecondary education 
            programs with apprenticeship programs.

      According to our estimates, these steps will create over 1 
million apprenticeship opportunities over the next 5 years.

    Second, the proposal creates dedicated, annual funding for states, 
        which play a critical role in expanding apprenticeship 
        opportunities. This means establishing a new formula fund for 
        state apprenticeship agencies that will provide consistent and 
        reliable funding for apprenticeship programs each year. It also 
        means ensuring that states can receive dedicated annual funding 
        while also applying for grants to expand apprenticeship 
        opportunities.

    Third, the proposal reflects the consistent feedback we've heard 
        from employers by streamlining the process for registering 
        programs while maintaining Registered Apprenticeship programs 
        high-quality standards requirements for apprenticeship 
        agreements.

    This streamlining will not only make it easier for employers to 
create apprenticeship opportunities, but also make apprenticeship 
programs more consistent to ensure that all programs meet quality 
standards and uphold worker protections. Perceptions of apprenticeships 
vary greatly across the country, making it difficult for programs to 
expand and reach their full potential. The proposed reauthorization 
codifies clear definitions and standards for Registered 
Apprenticeships, youth-apprenticeships, and pre-apprenticeships, so 
that we are all speaking in a common language about what we mean when 
we talk about the opportunities these programs provides.
    As I have said before, the Registered Apprenticeship system has the 
proven potential to reach hundreds of thousands-if not millions-of 
American workers. To that end, Committee Democrats and Republicans are 
working to reauthorize the National Apprenticeship Act in a bipartisan 
manner. I hope, that as we continue these efforts, we put our 
differences aside to reach our common goal of helping more people 
succeed in today's economy through the Registered Apprenticeship 
system.
    Only with these clearly established programs will we ensure that 
families can sit down at the kitchen table, discuss their futures, and 
look to the Registered Apprenticeship system as one of many high-
quality pathways to postsecondary education that lead to the middle 
class.
    The proposed reauthorization before us takes critical steps towards 
realizing that important goal. Today, we have an opportunity to receive 
feedback from key stakeholders and make sure this proposal is as strong 
and effective as possible.
    I look forward to working with all my colleagues to advance the 
National Apprenticeship Act of 2020, and now yield to the Ranking 
Member, Mr. Smucker, for his opening statement.
                                 ______
                                 
    Mr. Smucker. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    We are here today to discuss reform of the National 
Apprenticeship Act, which, of course, is an important tool in 
our efforts to promote and strengthen apprenticeships and 
strengthen opportunities for American workers so they are 
better prepared to compete in today's economy.
    And I would like to thank the chair for what I know is her 
personal interest in ensuring that more apprenticeship programs 
and opportunities become available. I would like to thank her 
for introducing this bill that would strengthen the Act. And I 
would like to thank her, as well, for working with this side of 
the aisle in coordinating and scheduling this hearing today.
    So, I am looking forward to discussion and also looking 
forward to the continued discussion in regard to a bill. And I 
do know that there is a lot that we agree on and hope that we 
can work through any remaining differences and really advance a 
bill that is done in a bipartisan way and that will have the 
support of the administration and something that can be passed 
into law. So, again, I would like to first just thank you for 
your work on this very, very important topic.
    The more we combat the misconception that a baccalaureate 
degree is the only viable pathway to a good job, the more we 
can better prepare future workers for a successful life.
    For too long, there has been a stigma surrounding skills-
based education. And today's hearing is an opportunity to 
highlight and recognize that the on-job learning programs are a 
proven method of setting students up for success. I was for 
years involved as a construction company owner and saw that 
there, but this can be expanded to so many other industries.
    As we all know, there is a growing interest today in 
apprenticeships and other earn-and-learn opportunities across 
the world, and for good reasons. Employers of all sizes are 
increasingly recognizing the critical role that apprenticeships 
play in the development of a qualified work force. As our 
economy continues to thrive, and I am proud of the strong 
economy that we have due to tax reform and deregulation 
efforts, it has created this serious skills gap that we now 
face. So, currently today there are more than 7 million jobs 
that remain unfilled.
    According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the number of 
job openings in the U.S. exceeds the number of job seekers 
nationwide. This has increased the demand for skilled workers. 
Yet, a 2018 survey of U.S. employers showed that nearly half of 
all job creators struggled to hire employees with the right 
skills for the job. And for the sixth year running, skilled 
trade jobs continue to be the hardest position to fill all over 
the world.
    Apprenticeship programs offer one of the strongest 
solutions and pathways to filling these positions, closing this 
skills gap, and strengthening the American work force. 
According to the Department of Labor, 94 percent of apprentices 
retain employment after completing an apprenticeship program. 
And the average starting salary after completion is $70,000.
    The Trump administration has long recognized the benefits 
and importance of these programs enacted on behalf of our 
Nation's students and workers. In July 2018, President Trump 
signed an executive order on work force development in which 
companies around the country signed a pledge to expand 
apprenticeship opportunities and educate 3.8 million workers 
over the next 5 years.
    As I said, it is abundantly clear that apprenticeship 
programs are proven to be effective. We must continue our work 
to integrate the education community with the work force so 
that classrooms and on-the-job development work hand-in-hand. 
We need to adapt in order to propel all students to success in 
a rapidly evolving economy.
    This committee has the responsibility to work toward 
solutions that will increase access to career changing 
opportunities. Workforce programs like apprenticeships will aid 
in closing the skills gap by building talent pipelines and 
putting more Americans to work.
    So, I would like to thank our witnesses, as well, for your 
testimony today. I am looking forward to having the discussion 
about how we can improve the recently released discussion draft 
to make the Registered Apprenticeship Program system work 
better for students, for families, and for employers so that we 
can continue to promote apprenticeships to build our work force 
and improve our country. Thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Smucker follows:]

Prepared Statement of Hon. Lloyd Smucker, Ranking Member, Subcommittee 
              on Higher Education and Workforce Investment

    Today we are here to discuss reform of the National Apprenticeship 
Act, an important tool in our efforts to promote and strengthen 
apprenticeships so American workers are better prepared to compete in 
today's economy.
    I'd like to thank my colleagues on the other side of the aisle for 
working with us to hold today's hearing. The more we combat the 
misconception that a baccalaureate degree is the only viable pathway to 
a good job the more we can better prepare future workers for a 
successful life. For too long, there has been a stigma surrounding 
skills-based education. Today's hearing is an opportunity to highlight 
and recognize that on-the-job learning programs are a proven method of 
setting students up for success.
    As we all know, there is a growing interest in apprenticeships and 
other earn-and-learn opportunities across the world, and for good 
reason. Employers of all sizes are increasingly recognizing the 
critical role that apprenticeships play in the development of a 
qualified workforce. However, as our economy continues to thrive under 
tax reform and deregulation efforts, we face a serious skills gap. 
Currently, more than seven million jobs remain unfilled.
    According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, the number of job 
openings in the United States exceeds the number of job seekers 
nationwide. This has increased the demand for skilled workers. Yet, a 
2018 survey of U.S. employers showed that nearly half of all job 
creators struggle to hire employees with the right skills for the job, 
and for the sixth year running, skilled trade jobs continue to be the 
hardest positions to fill all over the world.
    Apprenticeship programs offer one of the strongest solutions and 
pathways to filling these positions, closing this skills gap, and 
strengthening the American workforce, but don't just take my word for 
it. According to the Department of Labor, 94 percent of apprentices 
retain employment after completing an apprenticeship program and the 
average starting salary after completion is $70,000.
    The Trump administration has long recognized the benefits and 
importance of these programs and acted on behalf of our nation's 
students and workers. In July of 2018, President Trump signed an 
Executive Order on workforce development, in which companies around the 
country signed a pledge to expand apprenticeship opportunities and 
educate 3.8 million workers over the next five years.
    It is abundantly clear that apprenticeship programs are proven to 
be effective. We must continue our work to integrate the education 
community with the workforce, so that classrooms and on-the-job 
development work hand in hand. We need to adapt in order to propel all 
students to success in a rapidly evolving economy.
    This committee has a responsibility to work towards solutions that 
will increase access to career changing opportunities. Workforce 
programs like apprenticeships will aid in closing the skills gap by 
building talent pipelines and putting more Americans to work.
    I'd like to thank our witnesses for their testimony today. I'm 
looking forward to having a discussion about how we can improve the 
recently released discussion draft to make the registered 
apprenticeship system work better for students, families, and employers 
so we can continue to promote apprenticeships to build our workforce 
and improve our country.
                                 ______
                                 
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you, Mr. Smucker.
    I want to thank our ranking member because we have had a 
really good, a strong working relationship, and I appreciate 
your insights into this issue. Thank you so much.
    Without objection, all of the Members who wish to insert 
written statements into the record may do so by submitting them 
to the Committee Clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format 
by 5 on Tuesday, March 17th.
    And we now turn to our witnesses, and I am pleased to 
recognize my colleague, Representative Trone of Maryland, to 
briefly introduce his constituent who is appearing before us as 
a witness today.
    Mr. Trone. Thank you, Chairwoman Davis and Ranking Member 
Smucker, for holding this important hearing.
    I am very pleased to introduce a leader in my State of 
Maryland, Secretary Tiffany Robinson. Tiffany Robinson was 
appointed secretary of the Maryland Department of Labor in July 
2019. In this role, she leads the Department's work in 
protecting and empowering Marylanders by safeguarding workers, 
protecting consumers, and cultivating a thriving work force 
that meets the demands of Maryland's dynamic economy, and 
oversees Maryland's State Apprenticeship Agency.
    Prior to her appointment, Secretary Robinson served as 
deputy chief of staff for Governor Larry Hogan. Before this, 
she was assistant secretary with the Maryland Department of 
Housing and Community Development and director of the Community 
Development Administration and the Housing Finance Agency for 
our State. Secretary Robinson is a graduate of the University 
of Maryland, Baltimore County, and the University of Baltimore 
School of Law.
    Thank you for being here. Secretary Robinson, I look 
forward to continuing to work with you to strengthen our 
Registered Apprenticeship Programs in Maryland and throughout 
the country. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. And I am now pleased to 
recognize my colleague, Representative Grothman of Wisconsin, 
to briefly introduce his constituent who is appearing before us 
as a witness today. Mr. Grothman.
    Mr. Grothman. It is my honor to introduce Dr. Morna Foy as 
president of the Wisconsin Technical College System. One of the 
best in the country. We have 16 public 2-year institutions 
serving more than 300,000 students enrolled in degree, diploma, 
and transfer programs, dual credit courses with high schools, 
basic adult education, and customized training in partnership 
with employers. The technical colleges, five of which I have in 
my district, are the primary provider of classroom instruction 
for Wisconsin's Registered Instruction Program, the first in 
the Nation, which was created in 1911, the same year as the 
State's Technical College System.
    Dr. Foy has been engaged in higher education policy and 
leadership for 30 years, and believes strongly in the value of 
apprenticeship programs, which is why we have her here today. 
We are very pleased to have her here to highlight Wisconsin's 
program and how we can improve apprenticeships at the Federal 
level. Dr. Foy has a undergraduate degree from the University 
of Wisconsin, a master's degree from Indiana, and doctorate at 
our joint alma mater, the University of Wisconsin. Thank you 
for being here, Dr. Foy.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. And I will now introduce the 
remaining witnesses. Jace Noteboom is the talent director for 
the IBM Systems and Cognitive Enterprise Support units of IBM. 
Where, as a member of the human resources executive team, she 
has global responsibility for the work force skills, talent, 
offerings, and employee experience including creating and 
overseeing IBM's Registered Apprenticeship Programs.
    And also, Daniel Bustillo. Daniel Bustillo is the executive 
director of the Healthcare Career Advancement Program, or H-
CAP, a national organization of SEIU unions and healthcare 
employers who are participating in support of developing 
quality healthcare career education models, including 
Registered Apprenticeships for high road jobs that increase 
equity in the healthcare work force.
    Thank you, all of you, for being here. We appreciate that, 
and in some cases, we know that you have traveled a long 
distance to be here today. I just want to remind witnesses that 
we have read your written Statements and they will appear in 
full in the hearing record.
    Pursuant to Committee Rule 7(d) and committee practice, 
each of you is asked to limit your oral presentation to a 5-
minute summary of your written Statement. Before you begin, 
please remember to press the button on the microphone in front 
of you so that it will turn on and the members can hear you. 
And as you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn 
green. After 4 minutes, yellow, to signal that you have 1 
minute remaining. And when the light turns red, your 5 minutes 
have expired and we ask you to please wrap up.
    We will let the entire panel make their presentations 
before we move to member questions. When answering a question, 
please remember to again turn the microphone off. And I will 
first recognize Secretary Tiffany Robinson. And then we will 
just go right through the line. Thank you.

STATEMENT OF TIFFANY P. ROBINSON, ESQUIRE, SECRETARY, MARYLAND 
                      DEPARTMENT OF LABOR

    Ms. Robinson. Good morning, Chair Scott, Ranking Member 
Foxx, Subcommittee Chair Davis, Subcommittee Ranking Member 
Smucker, and distinguished Members of the subcommittee. My name 
is Tiffany Robinson. I am secretary of the Maryland Department 
of Labor under Governor Larry Hogan.
    I am honored to be here today and I thank you for this 
opportunity to discuss and share with you the successes and 
challenges of the Maryland Apprenticeship and Training Program.
    Maryland has transformed the State's Registered 
Apprenticeship Program into the premier work force tool that it 
is today by developing best practices and strong partnerships 
with education and industry leaders, job seekers, and 
businesses.
    During the Hogan administration, Maryland has experienced 
tremendous growth with its number and diversity of 
apprenticeships. We went from 7,340 Registered Apprentices to 
10,500 as of today, and from 125 program sponsors to over 164 
sponsors. By the end of this year, we expect to set another 
record and surpass 11,000 apprentices in the State of Maryland.
    In terms of increased diversity, I don't mean a slight 
increase. This administration has seen a 70 percent increase in 
the number of female apprentices in Maryland, as well as a 40 
percent increase in the number of minority apprentices.
    As you can see, our focus on growing diversity already 
aligns with the new goals of the draft Reauthorization Act.
    We are very proud of this growth, which is due to the 
rebranding of our Registered Apprenticeship Program through a 
mass coordinated outreach campaign. The inclusion of 
nontraditional industries and competency-based instruction and 
increased State incentives combined with U.S. DOL 
apprenticeship expansion grants.
    One of the most significant changes that we have made in 
Maryland was to build on the growing realization that college 
is just not for everyone. It sounds simple, but we are actually 
changing the perception of apprenticeship by increasing our 
personal outreach to current and prospective stakeholders. For 
example, over the past 3 years, we have visited every single 
apprenticeship program in the State. This obviously helps to 
ensure compliance, but it also strengthens our relationship 
with our businesses and our sponsors. Believe it or not, when 
it is my team taking a tour, meeting apprentices, and providing 
technical assistance, Maryland businesses actually welcome a 
site visit from the government.
    We have also found that the perception is changing among 
the nontraditional industries who once believed the 
apprenticeship model could not work for them. Innovative 
competency-based programs have resulted in over 60 percent of 
our new apprenticeship sponsors being in nontraditional fields 
such as healthcare, information technology and cybersecurity, 
transportation and logistics, advanced manufacturing, and 
hospitality.
    The Hogan administration has also more than doubled its 
funding for the apprenticeship programs, which has helped to 
lead to the State's 45 percent increase in the number of new 
apprentices. Maryland's program particularly benefited from the 
Governor's More Jobs for Marylanders Act, which included a 
Registered Apprenticeship tax credit allowing an employer a 
$1,000 tax credit per apprentice hired. This credit has 
received overwhelmingly positive feedback from businesses and 
is being considered currently for expansion this legislative 
session.
    While Maryland continues to grow and scale these programs, 
the primary challenge that we have faced is the lack of 
consistent and sustainable Federal funding at the program 
level. So, I was thrilled to see the inclusion of formula 
funding, as well as continued Federal grant options in the 
draft reauthorization language. The formula funding will 
enhance our State's ability to expand and integrate 
apprenticeship within the work force system, while growing our 
dedicated team. And it will finally allow States to fully 
incorporate pre-and youth apprenticeship into our programs 
through a dedicated funding stream.
    And while I am happy to see the grant funding will still be 
available, I might add that it would be beneficial to States if 
the lifespan of those grants were increased to 4 years to 
coincide with the newly required State plan and data reporting 
requirements, especially considering that most apprenticeship 
programs are also 4 years.
    It is also my hope that the grant funding remains flexible, 
similar to the Governor's set-aside WIOA funds. As you know, 
newly formed programs simply don't have the same foundation as 
unions and associations who have had decades to establish a 
generational presence. So, a grant with more flexibility and a 
longer lifespan will help sustainably grow these new programs.
    We are very proud of the profound impact that the Maryland 
Apprenticeship and Training program has had on our business 
community, job seekers, and students in Maryland. Businesses 
across the country, as you mentioned, are facing a shortage of 
skilled workers. So I can't think of a better time to 
reauthorize the National Apprenticeship Act.
    On behalf of the Hogan administration, Maryland is thrilled 
to partner with you on this important endeavor. And we look 
forward to continuing our growth of the apprenticeship programs 
in years to come.
    Thank you, again, for your time, and I look forward to 
answering any questions you may have.
    [The prepared Statement of Ms. Robinson follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Dr. Foy.

    STATEMENT OF MORNA K. FOY, Ph.D., PRESIDENT, WISCONSIN 
                    TECHNICAL COLLEGE SYSTEM

    Ms. Foy. Chair Davis, Ranking Member Smucker, members of 
the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on 
the National Apprenticeship Act and the need to strengthen and 
grow apprenticeship.
    I am Morna Foy, president of the Wisconsin Technical 
College System. I am also a board member for Rebuilding 
America's Middle Class, or RAMC, a nationwide coalition of 
community colleges seeking to ensure Federal policy represents 
the needs of our students.
    I would like to acknowledge Representative Grothman in his 
unwavering support for apprenticeship and for the Wisconsin 
Technical College System, but mostly for his consistent focus 
on connecting employers with educators.
    Wisconsin has a strong State-registered apprenticeship 
program administered by our Department of Workforce Development 
with more than 11,000 registered apprentices headed for careers 
as carpenters, medical assistants, IT software developers, and 
many others. Our 16 technical colleges provide the majority of 
the related classroom instruction for registered apprentices in 
our State, including 77 distinct apprenticeship programs, 11 of 
which are new since 2014. Five more are under development and 
will be available this year. I have provided a handout with the 
complete list.
    Apprenticeship receives extensive support in Wisconsin. It 
has consistently enjoyed broad bipartisan support among 
policymakers. And perhaps more importantly, our employers 
support it as a vital talent development strategy. More 
recently, apprenticeship has proved invaluable in addressing 
demographic challenges, an aging work force, and fewer high 
school graduates that Wisconsin has not experienced alone.
    Apprentices certainly benefit, too. Those recently 
completing an apprenticeship for which a technical college 
provided the related instruction, reported an annual median 
income of $80,000, more than twice Wisconsin's annual median 
income. I refer you to the annual report provided to members 
for additional apprenticeship outcome data.
    Wisconsin's technical colleges excel in aligning 
apprenticeship with formal education because we intentionally 
bring that perspective when designing and providing 
apprenticeship instruction. First, apprenticeship has strong K-
12 connections in Wisconsin, where the Department's Youth 
Apprenticeship program is open to high school students with 
related instruction provided by high school partners.
    Our technical colleges, through agreements with local 
school districts, award youth apprentices dual credit, college 
credit that also counts toward high school graduation.
    From 2015 to 2019 we awarded more than 5,100 college 
credits to about 1,300 youth apprentices in public and private 
high schools.
    At the postsecondary level, registered apprentices who 
complete the work and classroom requirements are awarded a 
nationally recognized apprenticeship completion certificate. 
That certificate is recognized as the first 39 credits of a 60-
credit associate degree in technical studies, which can be 
completed by earning 21 general education credits, many offered 
online, and lead to transfer to 4-year institutions in 
Wisconsin as an individual's career progresses.
    In that example, the degree was earned after completion of 
an apprenticeship. We have begun designing our newest 
apprenticeship programs with a degree embedded as part of the 
program, allowing individuals to earn a traditional degree in 
tandem with, rather than after, apprenticeship completion. This 
model shows particular promise for professions such as medical 
assistants, where national certification exams and 
accreditation bodies guide the design of program requirements. 
This model is strongly supported by industry partners who want 
employees with educational and career pathways beyond the 
completion of the apprenticeship itself.
    To encourage better alignment of apprenticeship and 
postsecondary attainment, it is my hope that reauthorization 
will acknowledge the role of community colleges in 
apprenticeship. First, a separate statutory formula program for 
States would better support the engagement of 2-year colleges 
in the development and delivery of a related apprenticeship 
instruction. Second, an interagency agreement established 
between the Federal Departments of Labor and Education would 
acknowledge that apprenticeship is more than just work force 
development. Apprenticeship, as the Wisconsin model has shown, 
is a highly effective, cost-neutral path to postsecondary 
attainment. Finally, the State Registered Apprenticeship 
Program works well for Wisconsin and should be maintained.
    I really want to thank the committee for the opportunity to 
testify at today's hearing. I hope my perspective adds value to 
your discussions. And I would be happy to answer any questions.
    [The prepared Statement of Ms. Foy follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Ms. Noteboom.

   STATEMENT OF JACE NOTEBOOM, TALENT DIRECTOR: IBM SYSTEMS, 
        WATSON HEALTH, COGNITIVE ENTERPRISE SUPPORT, IBM

    Ms. Noteboom. Chairwoman Davis, Ranking Member Smucker, 
distinguished members, I am the talent director for IBM 
Systems, responsible for work force skills and careers.
    Apprenticeships provide an additional pathway to compelling 
careers at IBM and other employers. Since the start of our 
apprenticeship program in 2017, IBM has hired 500 apprentices 
across roles ranging from mainframe systems administration to 
cybersecurity to data analytics. We have hired apprentices in 
15 States, including California, Virginia, and North Carolina. 
Candidates for apprenticeships are drawn from a mix of 
backgrounds often passed over by the United States higher 
education system.
    IBM has registered more than 25 new competency-based roles 
in information technology with the U.S. Department of Labor and 
collaborated with other employers and associations to enable 
their efforts to bring more people into the work force through 
this educational pathway.
    As Clayton Slaughter, an IBM mainframe apprentice from 
Texas says, ?When I was interviewing with my manager, she was 
happy to hear I had prior experience and technical aptitude, 
but what got me the job was my desire to be there. I would 
encourage any company, not just tech companies, to open 
apprenticeships to allow people the opportunity to shine 
because I know that there are many others who like me have the 
aptitude and skills, but not the access to higher education 
required at many companies.?
    Unfortunately, the U.S. education system is not producing 
graduates with relevant technical and soft skills. Around two-
thirds of the U.S. working age population do not have a 
bachelor's degree and most graduates are from a narrow band of 
the U.S. population.
    Often, higher education institutions simply do not offer 
programs in the most demanded skills. And even when higher 
education offers in-demand courses, obstacles interfere with 
progress to graduation. The GAO has found that students who 
transferred from 2004 to 2009 lost, on average, an estimated 43 
percent of their credits, 43 percent. This obstacle to transfer 
of credits is particularly severe for technical courses. For 
example, there is no articulation agreement to allow transfer 
of credit for any of the San Diego City College courses in 
cybersecurity with San Diego State University. Their campuses 
may only be 8 miles apart, but academically you can't get from 
SDCC to SDSU.
    IBM's New Collar approach focuses on skills first, not 
degrees earned, and emphasizes work-based learning and core 
skills, like learning agility, teaming, and adaptability. The 
primary New Collar approaches are apprenticeships, skills 
first, and P-TECH, a career-oriented school model.
    IBM's apprenticeship is a competency-based program that 
pairs apprenticeships with comprehensive--excuse me--
apprentices with comprehensive learning, focused hands-on 
application, and demonstration of skills and mentorship.
    Having a standardized apprenticeship model registered with 
the Department of Labor allows us to share our apprenticeship 
model more easily. For example, both the Consumer Technology 
Association companies and the California Division of 
Apprenticeship Standards are fast-tracking apprenticeships 
based on IBM's Registered Apprenticeship roles.
    Our skills-first strategy, rather than academic degree 
requirements, allows for the development of a more qualified 
and diverse work force. Lifelong learning, upskilling, and 
reskilling are all elements for successful talent management. 
P-TECH schools allow students in grades 9 through 14 to earn 
both a high school diploma and an industry recognized 2-year 
postsecondary degree at no cost while working with industry 
partners like IBM.
    Based on our experience with these three New Collar 
pathways, IBM urges the subcommittee to move forward on the 
following reforms to apprenticeship. First, complexity of 
implementation is a barrier for many companies wanting to 
leverage apprenticeship programs. Second, funding. Annually, 
the United States spends more than 1.1 trillion on formal and 
informal postsecondary work force education and training. And 
the U.S. Department of Labor's appropriated funding level for 
apprenticeship programs in 2020 was less than 200 million. 
Third, IBM urges the House to remove obstacles in the Higher 
Education Act that could help prepare students for 
apprenticeship programs including restrictions on short-term 
programs and Federal Work-Study. Finally, extend the P-TECH 
model to pre-apprenticeship as a proven pathway that could 
prepare students for a career or further education.
    Thank you, members of the committee. I look forward to your 
questions and working with the committee to modernize the 
apprenticeship program.
    [The prepared Statement of Ms. Noteboom follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    

    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Mr. Bustillo.

 STATEMENT OF DANIEL BUSTILLO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HEALTHCARE 
                   CAREER ADVANCEMENT PROGRAM

    Mr. Bustillo. Chair Davis, Ranking Member Smucker, and 
members of the subcommittee, I am pleased and grateful to have 
the opportunity to testify before you this morning.
    My name is Daniel Bustillo. I serve as executive director 
of the Healthcare Career Advancement Program, commonly known as 
H-CAP. H-CAP is a national labor-management cooperation 
organization of SEIU union locals and employers in healthcare 
that promotes innovation and quality in healthcare career 
education. These industry partnerships exist across 16 States 
plus Washington, DC, training tens of thousands of healthcare 
workers a year.
    H-CAP and industry partner organizations have longstanding 
track records of developing and implementing high-quality 
training programs for incumbent healthcare workers that support 
their career aspirations while simultaneously meeting employer 
work force needs. A win for all. The success of these programs 
and the benefits to workers would not be possible without the 
investments made by unions and participating employers, which 
allow workers to have a direct voice in these programs and 
ownership over their own futures.
    This is all occurring in an industry undergoing continued 
occupational growth and delivery system transformation. 
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, employment of 
healthcare occupations is projected to increase by 14 percent 
through 2028. Moreover, of the 30 fastest-growing occupations, 
18 are in healthcare and related occupations. Other sector wide 
factors are also accelerating the need for continued innovation 
in the creation and implementation of nontraditional, high-
quality training programs, and rigorous work force planning.
    This industry context mandates new ways of thinking. 
Despite the fact that the healthcare industry has a long 
history of work-based learning models, modern healthcare has 
not traditionally been an industry in which Registered 
Apprenticeships are used with any frequency. While H-CAP and 
our affiliated partners administer many high-quality training 
and education programs, Registered Apprenticeships are the gold 
standard of work force development strategies, such as that 
practiced by our colleagues in the trades.
    Thus, in 2016, H-CAP created a national collaboration to 
build targeted work force solutions through Registered 
Apprenticeship. Since September 2016, we have also been serving 
as a national industry intermediary contractor with the United 
States Department of Labor to support the development of 
Registered Apprenticeship in healthcare across the Nation.
    Since launching our first cohort of apprentices in November 
2016, H-CAP has supported the registration of over 1,500 
apprentices across eight States with multiple employers 
encompassing large, small, and mid-sized firms. Of these 
apprentices, 82 percent are women, and a majority 60 percent 
are people of color.
    These Registered Apprenticeship Programs are developed to 
industry specification, with direct input from employers, 
unions, and workers to create competency-based programs. The 
move toward competency-based Registered Apprenticeship Programs 
has been particularly valuable in the healthcare industry, 
where we have a large number of highly experienced incumbent 
workers seeking opportunities for career progression.
    As an intermediary organization and national contractor, H-
CAP leverages the direct support, participation, and expertise 
of our partners who play a key role in the inception, design, 
and implementation of programs to create sustainable Registered 
Apprenticeship infrastructure.
    We have developed positive working relationships with many 
State Apprenticeship Agencies and the Office of Apprenticeship 
at the national level.
    Even though nearly 80 percent of healthcare workers are 
women, we continue to strive to ensure accessibility for women 
and workers of color, and amongst other strategies, have 
created a variety of tools and resources on Equal Employment 
Opportunity regulations. We have also begun work to make 
Registered Apprenticeship Programs in healthcare more 
accessible to people with disabilities and youth.
    In short, Registered Apprenticeships continue to expand 
throughout the U.S. healthcare industry without sacrificing 
standards or quality and have assisted to meet critical 
industry need.
    We are heartened by the continued interest in codifying and 
supporting the expansion of Registered Apprenticeship as a 
high-quality training mechanism that provides rigorous 
instruction, much needed supportive services to apprentices, 
add good jobs to workers, while assisting employers with their 
work force planning needs.
    Investments in high-quality Registered Apprenticeships are 
a critical step in addressing broader work force challenges and 
provide workers and businesses with sustainable resources to 
prepare for the future. Based on our experience, we offer a few 
items for consideration.
    First, industry partnerships and intermediary organizations 
help expand the capacity of industry, educational providers and 
human service organizations to meet worker need and employer 
demand. These partnerships are critical to expanding Registered 
Apprenticeship in our country and should be supported.
    Second, supportive services, such as childcare, 
transportation, and housing assistance help ensure equity and 
apprentice success, which benefits workers and employers.
    Third, worksite changes and new technologies in the 
healthcare sector will mean workers will need more access to 
earn-and-learn and on-the-job learning opportunities like 
Registered Apprenticeship.
    And, fourth, positive strides have already been made, but 
continued efforts to support transparency and efficiency in the 
registration process, along with more longitudinal data 
collection and analysis, would lead to greater uptake.
    We look forward to the future, and the continued expansion 
of a high-quality Registered Apprenticeship system that 
supports innovation through an efficient registration process 
without sacrificing quality. This expansion of Registered 
Apprenticeship opportunities in healthcare and other 
nontraditional industries is an important objective and a true 
benefit to workers, communities, employers, and industries.
    Thank you for your time and I look forward to your 
questions.
    [The prepared Statement of Mr. Bustillo follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Thank you very much for your 
comprehensive remarks and for staying within the time limits. 
We appreciate that.
    It is now time under Committee Rule 8(a) to question 
witnesses under the 5-minute rule. I am going to pass on that 
right now as I understand the Ranking Member is. And so we will 
go to the first member on our side and we will go back and 
forth throughout the morning.
    Mr. Courtney of Connecticut, please.
    Mr. Courtney. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And, again, to 
you and Mr. Smucker, congratulations on really what is an 
historic moment here in terms of amending and enhancing the 
Fitzgerald Act, which for all intents and purposes, has not 
been touched for 83 years when it passed in 1937.
    I am a bit of a Fitzgerald Act geek because Fitzgerald was 
William Fitzgerald, who represented eastern Connecticut, my 
district, back in 1937. He was an amazing person. As we talk 
about nontraditional paths to employment, he never had a 
college degree. He actually was a foundry worker and an amazing 
person, obviously, because his leadership skills sort of stood 
out. And he, you know, rose through the ranks where he worked, 
he became mayor of Norwich, Connecticut, was elected to 
Congress. This bill passed when he was a freshman. It was his 
first term in Congress in 1937 and signed into law by Franklin 
Roosevelt.
    After two terms he left to go head up the War Industrial 
Board, which, obviously, was probably the biggest mobilization 
of work force in our country's history. And Connecticut, like 
all our States, did so much to make sure that, you know, we had 
the successful outcome. We are about to celebrate the 75th 
anniversary this summer. And, again, the industrial base was as 
big a part of that story as almost any other aspect. And the 
Fitzgerald Act actually helped with that high-velocity worker 
training to make sure that the country could, obviously, meet 
the demand that existed there.
    So, again, thank you for your passion and experience that 
all of you really demonstrated here this morning. And, again, 
earlier we did have a kind of a subject matter hearing where we 
had witnesses from other countries that came in and testified 
from Switzerland, Germany, and Australia, which, again, this is 
a global issue, actually. And, you know, one exchange we had 
with the gentleman from Australia was talking about because 
they have sort of a similar setup with the Federal system of 
national, State, and, obviously, private sector, you know, sort 
of economies, that, you know, the key element that Mr.--I got 
his name here--Bradley, testified to was that it was so 
important to have a national standard so that you have 
portability as people move from one part of a country to 
another.
    And, you know, Ms. Noteboom, you mentioned the fact that, 
you know, in your sector, you know, that is, obviously, 
something that is important is your, you know, obviously, your 
multisite company all across the country that somebody from--
who is trained in California, can go to work in New York and 
maybe you could just sort of talk about that. I mean, that was 
one aspect of the Fitzgerald Act that they got it right in 
terms of a national standard.
    Ms. Noteboom. Yes. By registering apprenticeships with the 
U.S. Department of Labor, we create the best practices and 
toolkits and curriculums and competency-based programs that 
cannot only be used by IBM, and we are using them, but shared 
with other employers, such as States, such as small and medium 
businesses. In the digital economy, there are so many critical 
needs for IT skills. And the transferability of credits in the 
educational system, as well as the recognition of standards 
across States with our government is critical.
    Mr. Courtney. And, Mr. Bustillo, I mean, you sort of have 
that similar sort of place in terms of dealing with multiple 
employers. And, again, is that standard, again, something that 
people need to rely on?
    Mr. Bustillo. Yes. I think in healthcare, a little bit 
different context in terms of the healthcare sector just due to 
the fact that some of the--we have multiple occupations in 
healthcare, right? Some of those occupations do not, 
independent of Registered Apprenticeship, do not have national 
standards. So, the Registered Apprenticeship process really 
brings a structure and framework to that. That is certainly 
helpful in doing so. And I think that we have been successful 
in using that as a mechanism to create those occupational 
frameworks and to assist with the portability across States as 
you talked about.
    Mr. Courtney. You know, Dr. Foy, I should point out, 
Wisconsin actually did have the first, you know, legal 
apprenticeship program in the country back to 1911. But, again, 
this bill, again, is talking about sort of stabilizing the 
horizon in terms of authorized funding for the programs. Again, 
I just wonder if you could talk about how that gives employers 
more confidence in terms of participating in these programs if 
they know they are going to be around for a while.
    Ms. Foy. Yes, sure. And thanks for the acknowledgement. It 
is something Wisconsin's very proud of.
    I think what is really important is that we understand that 
as we expand the disciplines and the industries in which 
apprenticeship is becoming a new delivery model, that is an 
expensive proposition, developing the curriculum for it, making 
sure that we have instructors available that have the skill set 
to do the instruction. And it is more difficult to plan for 
than a traditional academic program. We know the semester is 
coming up. We know what the enrollments are going to be. We 
might have a new employer decide at any time of the year that 
they would like to hire some apprentices and that they have an 
opportunity to do so. So, having funds available for curriculum 
development, for instruction, I think, and that are sort of a 
backstop to what States should and do provide, is really 
important.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. The gentleman's time is up. 
You know, we may be a little more liberal when our witnesses 
are finishing since there aren't as many members here today. 
But, please, everyone can try and stay within the 5 minutes, 
but I just gave a few extra seconds, so, thank you very much.
    Next, we have Mr. Guthrie from Kentucky.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you very much. I know a lot of us 
talked, as my friend from Connecticut--Switzerland, we have 
kind of looked at their model. I believe two-thirds--their 
whole system is planned for two-thirds of their people to go 
through apprenticeships. And I remember Ms. Davis and I--the 
chair--talking and my first thought was wow so there is two-
thirds of people they are not encouraging to go to college to 
begin with. Then you look at, you know, according to the 
census, two-thirds of Americans don't have bachelor's degrees. 
I think 30 percent's the No. 1 State and that is Massachusetts. 
So, it is not what are they doing to their citizens? What are 
they doing for?
    And so, I think, the question we have here so the American 
people know is not--is really a bipartisan issue here. 
Everybody is working together. The question is just what is the 
Federal role and what are the details and how much prescription 
verses flexibility? Because we all want to work together to 
make this work and make it happen. Because you hear the same 
stories and you hear it everywhere we go. There is every 
employer in Kentucky that would hire somebody today even if 
they are not advertising it, if they found somebody with the 
right skills. And these people are not starting at $7.25 an 
hour. They are substantially higher than that.
    And in the late 1990's--or, yes, the late 1990's, we 
changed our community college--or our community colleges were 
part of the University of Kentucky. We separated them out and 
created a separate system and combined community college and 
technical schools together. And I think that turned out to be a 
great model. But at the beginning all the tech schools wanted 
to be community colleges, so we call it the Kentucky Community 
Technical College System, KCTCS. Dr. Foy, I think you are 
familiar with it. And I used to, in the general assembly, say 
let us keep the T in KCTCS because everybody wanted to be a 
community college.
    But what has happened now is you can go to any community 
college or any tech school or KCTCS school as we call them, the 
Chamber of Commerce is there, the employers are there, the work 
force people, everybody seems to be working together now. And I 
think it is probably in some States I like to hear about 
Wisconsin the thing, the biggest issue is getting people to 
come to the programs. And you hear, well, we all say that there 
are substantial abilities to increase your earning potential. 
Everybody is begging for skilled workers. There is a shortage 
of skilled workers, more jobs than people. But we are having 
trouble getting people to come to fill the seats of training.
    Now, there are some that are booked and lines to get in. 
But for the most part, and I don't know, Dr. Foy, just kind of 
what are the challenges have you had in your effort to work 
together with industry to get trainees, to get people 
education? I hate to say training because I get in trouble here 
because you don't--you educate people, you train animals. I 
have heard that before. So, I am going to--just forget I said 
that. How do you get people into your education system and so 
they can earn a better living? And we know who said that.
    Ms. Foy. Well--
    Mr. Guthrie. Sorry, I apologize to my former community 
college president over here.
    Ms. Foy. I am very fortunate actually that in Wisconsin the 
technical college system has a very old and strong relationship 
with our State employers. So, we have involved them in all of 
our curriculum development, and we do that on a regular basis. 
They also sit on all of our governing boards by statute.
    Mr. Grothman. But do you give people--how do you get 
educate--people to be educated?
    Ms. Foy. So--
    Mr. Guthrie. How do you get them in there?
    Ms. Foy. Because it is a partnership that has to happen 
with the employers and with educators. I think the days when it 
was all about higher ed just trying to get students in our 
seats so that we could collect tuition revenue is not how we 
operate. We are a partner with our State's employers to create 
their talent pipeline. And apprenticeship has become an 
increasingly valuable and valued tool in how employers get 
folks into their places of business.
    So, we are the second step. They are using apprenticeship 
as a recruiting tool. They are posting salaries of apprentices. 
They are putting up data about contrasting how much debt does 
an apprentice completer have with an associate degree in many 
cases in our State versus a traditional associate degree 
student who just went to college and paid their own way. And 
the answer is, you know, they have zero over here and they have 
something over there. They are using it as a retention tool. 
Wisconsin has a very, very competitive market in big 
industries, IT, agriculture, advanced manufacturing. So, we get 
employers--we will get employees who want to come into a 
business, but then they are also going to get recruited and 
head hunted by the business down the street.
    Employers are using the fact that they offer apprentices, 
and they are making that investment in their employees as a 
retention tool now. And it is getting to be something where 
employees are actually asking about it when they go for a job 
interview. What do you do for me? If I come here, how are you 
going to demonstrate that you care about my career progression? 
So, we are working with employers very hard to market it, to 
put out materials like the one I provided to the committee. And 
it is having a big impact, actually.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you. I am out of time. But I have 
unanimous consent. Submit for the record, Consumer Technology 
Association?s, ?Why Tech Companies Should Offer 
Apprenticeships.?
    Chairwoman Davis. Without objection. Thank you. Unanimously 
support.
    Mr. Guthrie. Thank you for your answer.
    Chairwoman Davis. And, Mr. Levin, Michigan.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you so much, Madam Chairwoman.
    To start, I want to thank the witnesses. I appreciate your 
thoughtful comments and the bipartisan tenor of today's 
hearing.
    In fact, bipartisanship has been a core component of the 
committee's work on Registered Apprenticeships. We have had 
other bipartisan hearings leading up to today's legislative 
hearing. We have also had one of the best bipartisan committee 
member roundtable discussions that I have attended in my time 
in Congress. The room was packed. Republicans and Democrats 
were engaged. And there was a clear bipartisan commitment to an 
excitement about reauthorizing the National Apprenticeship Act 
and increasing access to Registered Apprenticeships.
    Chairwoman Davis, Ranking Member Smucker, as well as 
Chairman Scott and Dr. Foxx and their staffs have upheld that 
bipartisan commitment. For months now, they have engaged in 
good faith negotiations. They have even agreed to delay today's 
legislative hearing an extra week to give more time to reach a 
bipartisan agreement.
    I would hope that given the Trump administration's Stated 
interest in growing apprenticeships, it will embrace the 
opportunity to meaningfully scale up Registered Apprenticeships 
systems through this bill. The administration's support will 
continue to help negotiations and enable a bipartisan bill to 
move smoothly through the House of Representatives so that we 
can create opportunities for hundreds of thousands of people 
across the country.
    So, I wanted to start on that bipartisan note and 
commitment to work with the administration. I want to talk 
about how to help people, poor people, people who traditionally 
not had access to apprenticeships get in the game.
    There was a United States senator once from Illinois named 
Barack Obama who got into the SAFETEA-LU Bill that you could 
use a half a percent of your SAFETEA-LU money to build the road 
construction work force of the future, women, people of color, 
poor people. And for 4 years I was Michigan's chief work force 
officer and I had a job similar to Ms. Robinson's. I ran all 
the job training programs and that kind of thing in Michigan. 
And using what the senator got passed into law, we created pre-
apprenticeship programs that were paid. The first was called 
RCAR, Road Construction Apprenticeship Readiness. And, frankly, 
there is a lot of people who without childcare, without 
transportation, without being, you know, earning something, 
they couldn't participate in the system. But they are not ready 
for the apprenticeship program unless they have a pre-
apprenticeship opportunity.
    So, Mr. Bustillo, let me ask your thoughts about this. 
Basically, few people can afford the time or money to dedicate 
weeks or months to a pre-apprenticeship program without income 
to support themselves and their families. If we just have 
unpaid programs, it will exclude people with low incomes and 
result in a pool of apprentices that lacks racial and ethnic 
diversity. So, how can reauthorizing the National 
Apprenticeship Act, which is what we are trying to do here, 
ensure that people of color and women and poor people can fully 
participate in pre-apprenticeship and Registered Apprenticeship 
Programs and that people receive adequate compensation?
    Mr. Bustillo. So, thank you for the question. And I think, 
harking back to my oral testimony and this is expounded a 
little bit further in my written testimony as well. I think, 
clearly, you know, I am heartened to see it in the proposed 
legislation so there is a focus on pre-apprenticeship exactly 
what you are talking about as well. One of the things that we 
have seen quite clearly, and I am going to broaden it out a 
little bit as well because what you are talking about is 
absolutely correct. So, you heard me focus on supportive 
services and from based on our experience, we have seen the 
critical nature of those services whether it is for folks who 
are entering into a program like a pre-apprenticeship program. 
But I think that actually also holds for folks who are 
incumbent workers and looking for a career progression as well.
    I will give a very particular example from a State, and, 
you know, many States have different geographies, right? So, 
there are States where the more rural areas of those States, 
there are no community or technical colleges within the 
neighboring towns that folks might live in. So, I have seen 
this and I have interacted with many healthcare workers around 
the country who have the desire and the ability to progress 
either enter into the profession or progress, but the community 
college where if you are a CNA trying to become an LPN, the 
community college is an hour away, right? An LPN program is a 
full-time program. So, you need, in essence, to go to school 
full-time, then work two double shifts on the weekend in order 
to have some sort of salary or benefit to be able to support in 
your family, and then have a car available to you to drive a 
hour away as well.
    So, I say all this to say that what you are talking about, 
Representative Levin, is absolutely critical in terms of 
thinking about the supportive services. You heard me mention 
childcare, transportation, housing assistance. I think it is a 
little bit broader than that though as well. I think without 
those supportive services, and that is one of the things that 
really differentiates the Registered Apprenticeship process, 
the wraparound services, the earn-and-learn model and the 
supportive services that are so critical to ensuring success, 
which leads to better outcomes, not only for the apprentices, 
but for employers as well.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. The gentleman's time 
is up. Mr. Grothman of Wisconsin.
    Mr. Grothman. Yes, Dr. Foy, first of all, thank you, again, 
for being here.
    We have, I think, top-of-the-line in the country, but could 
you talk a little bit more about Wisconsin's system and why you 
feel it kind of stands out among other States?
    Ms. Foy. I would be happy to do that. I think there are a 
few things. Wisconsin is pretty fortunate because we have had a 
long history of connecting apprenticeship with academic 
programs. But that is one of the things that is different in 
Wisconsin is that that relationship between the Department of 
Workforce Development and the Technical College System is 
codified in statute. We know how to work together and we do 
that very well.
    We also have a technical college system that our curriculum 
is developed whether it is for apprenticeship programs or for 
academic programs on a competency-based basis. So, that means 
we build learning modules. We put all of our curriculum into a 
data base. Again, whether it is for apprenticeship programs or 
academic. And what that results in is it makes it very easy for 
us to crosswalk between those two kinds of delivery models, 
and, therefore, combine credentials for students.
    We also have a very, very strong relationship with State 
employees--employers, excuse me. So, that makes sure that our 
curriculum, again, whether it is for academic programs or for 
apprenticeship, is current, it is modified appropriately as 
industry changes.
    And we have one other component that I think is actually I 
know is quite unique in the country, which is that we have 
paid-related instruction. So, that is really important I think 
for reaching those populations that maybe haven't been as big a 
participant in apprenticeship, and also incumbent workers who 
want to advance their skills. Because without paid related 
instruction, they have to take essentially a pay cut in order 
to get the classroom instruction. And that makes a big 
difference. It makes it much more attractive for employees and, 
frankly, it is never something that we hear a concern raised by 
employers. They are happy to pay it because they see the value.
    Mr. Grothman. OK, and when we talk about cooperation with 
the university system, is Wisconsin somewhat unique in the 
ability to have tech school--what we call our tech school 
credits go to the university and the university credits go to 
the tech school?
    Ms. Foy. I think that we made a lot of good progress in 
that area, and particularly in apprenticeship I think we are 
quite unique. I think we also have some other States around the 
country that we are using as models for us in terms of what is 
possible. Program-to-program articulation has not been 
something that has happened that much in Wisconsin in the past, 
but it is definitely our focus now. And I think for programs 
like apprenticeship, it is going to make a big difference in 
terms of that next step articulation from apprenticeship to 
short-term certificate to associate degree and a bachelors.
    Mr. Grothman. OK. Recently I ran into somebody who knew 
somebody who graduated from Moraine Park. I think they went to 
the Beaver Dam campus. And we were told, I think, they are 
going to be working on the electrical lines.
    Ms. Foy. Mm-hmm.
    Mr. Grothman. A very challenging job, but they are making 
six figures.
    Ms. Foy. Mm-hmm.
    Mr. Grothman. And one of the things that I have a problem 
with is so many people, including a lot of politicians, talk 
about a 4-year degree being a panacea and the height of 
achievement in society. And I always bristle when I hear 
politicians say that. What can we do to get politicians and 
other people in society to stop, maybe in a snobby way or 
whatever, always pushing the 4-year degree?
    Ms. Foy. I personally think that the career pathway model 
is the solution to a lot of different academic providers, as 
well as industry employer recruiters. Because the pathway model 
recognizes the fact that a high school diploma is not going to 
get you very far in your career in the next 20, 30, 40 years. 
Everybody needs to be continually learning. Industry is 
changing too fast for us to stop at any credential. That goes 
true for a bachelor's as well. So, our job as educators is to 
make sure that you can continually access increased skill sets 
and increase credentials. Employers are interested in matching 
their job opportunities with those kinds of credentials. Paying 
people the right amount for the right skill set and then 
creating a pathway to advancement.
    And when you talk about it in terms of pathways, then it is 
not so much us against them, Representative. It is more about 
what role and what part do we all play in that path.
    Mr. Grothman. OK.
    Ms. Foy. So, that is what I talk about.
    Mr. Grothman. I was at an Eagle Scout ceremony on Sunday. 
And I felt very good because, you know, I always ask the Eagle 
Scouts who usually complete their Eagle Scout as a senior in 
high school, and I asked the guy what he was going to do. And, 
you know, he was obviously a sharp guy. And he was not going 
into the tech school system, he was going into the trades. And 
I thought it was really good that we made progress that this, 
you know, obviously, top of the line guy telling me that, you 
know, he was going to become an electrician. Man, you made the 
right decision. I think we are making progress. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Mr. Trone of Maryland.
    Mr. Trone. Thank you, Madam Chair. Maryland, Mrs. Secretary 
Robinson, is one of 27 States that run their own State 
apprenticeship programming. In Maryland and nationally State 
Apprenticeship Agencies played a key role in helping expand 
registered programs and serve more apprentices. Based on your 
experience, can you expand on your opening Statement a bit 
about how Congress can codify and strengthen the role of State 
Apprenticeship Agencies and how we can support awareness in 
expansion of apprenticeship opportunities at State and local 
levels?
    Ms. Robinson. Sure, and thank you, Congressman, for that 
question.
    I would be happy to expand a little bit and really I would 
like to go back and start with my emphasis in my oral testimony 
about the appreciation for a dedicated annual funding stream. 
It is difficult to approach potential sponsors with a multiyear 
strategy for a new program, and we have not had access to 
multiyear consistent and dedicated funding. So, this is really 
a game changer in this reauthorization language that we are 
happy about.
    I would also say that we have worked very hard in Maryland 
to do that outreach and to spread the message that Dr. Foy just 
talked about. This apprenticeship is a career path, especially 
when we are working with our youth in K through 12 in our youth 
apprenticeship programs. Making sure that everyone clearly 
understands that we are not talking about just a job. We are 
talking about a career path with very good wages to support 
your family, with advancement opportunities to potentially 
become the CEO like you mentioned.
    Changing that message in Maryland has made all the 
difference. Getting youth involved and excited. We are happy to 
see potentially through this act, a stronger partnership with 
the Department of Education so that our State agency can work 
more closely with them in the schools to connect the kids to 
the employers. It is not in their nature to be out working with 
employers and attracting employers, but that is what we do at 
the Maryland Department of Labor in our State agency. So, 
having the ability to work closer with our education partners 
and be in the schools to connect them to the employers, to work 
on that barrier removal, provide for transportation, have boots 
on the ground because of the guaranteed streamlined funding, to 
be able to, you know, provide the technical assistance they 
need to connect all the dots.
    Mr. Trone. Thank you. Let us talk a second about 
apprenticeships in prison. Every year, over 700,000 
incarcerated individuals leave State and Federal prison and 
return to our local communities. For many years, these justice-
impacted individuals, barriers such as lack of a postsecondary 
education, and extended periods of unemployment make reentering 
the work force a challenge. Components of the Registered 
Apprenticeships offer incarcerated individuals the opportunity 
to overcome these obstacles and work on the job training that 
provides work experience, education, it provides job related 
instruction, and a nationally recognized credential that shows 
employers they can do the job.
    We know that access to Registered Apprenticeships and other 
employment pathways leads to great jobs with benefits and 
salaries that can sustain a family. We also know that the 
quality of long-term outcomes in corrections-based 
apprenticeships rarely matches those of Registered 
Apprenticeships outside the prison walls. And we have 
additional issues we need to address with inhumane wages in 
prison. Secretary Robinson and others, how can the 
reauthorization of the National Apprenticeship Support Act both 
support ongoing efforts to reform the criminal justice system 
and expand access of Registered Apprenticeships for individuals 
who are incarcerated or formerly incarcerated?
    Ms. Robinson. Thank you. The Maryland State Agency works 
really closely with our State's Department of Public Safety and 
Correctional Services to work with inmates behind the fence. I 
can give you an example.
    We have a quite new pre-apprenticeship program with the 
Associated Builders and Contractors Metro Washington chapter in 
our State to provide skilled trades training behind the fence 
for inmates where they will receive workplace skills, life 
skills, barrier removal, in addition to certifications, the 
first level of their construction basics craft training. This 
leads directly into and prepares them for a Registered 
Apprenticeship Program when they reenter their community. They 
will have the ability from this program to choose from HVAC and 
sheet metal occupations with wages starting at $14.50 an hour 
and completion of that apprenticeship paying $29.00 an hour. 
So, it gives them that career path to look forward to.
    We know that they have barriers and we know they need to be 
focused on early before they reenter the communities. And that 
has been the way we have handled it. We are appreciated for the 
additional funding to allow us to continue to do that.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you.
    Mr. Trone. Ma'am, can I mention one quick thing? I just 
want to say thank you for that. But also, I am thrilled to be 
working on a bipartisan bill with Congressman Guthrie from 
Kentucky in this space. And we are glad to see our provisions 
to support justice-impacted community folks who are embedded in 
the discussion draft. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you, Mr. Trone. Mr. Cline of 
Virginia.
    Mr. Cline. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank the 
witnesses for appearing today. The future economic success of 
our Nation lies in work force education and apprenticeships are 
a proven pathway to gainful employment that gives workers 
opportunities to earn a family sustaining wage. While much of 
the national conversation these days is focused only on 
opportunities as they relate to attending college, I am glad 
that this subcommittee recognizes the importance and value of 
apprenticeships by holding another hearing on ways to improve 
these lucrative programs.
    I want to also say that apprenticeships offer not only 
viable solutions, but profitable ones. They can help solve the 
skills gap that exists and work to fill the 7 million currently 
unfilled jobs in America, 7 million. Our focus needs to be on 
ensuring apprenticeships can continue to exist in an agile 
system that is responsive to the everchanging work landscape.
    A large part of what makes apprenticeships work well is 
their ability to be customized at the State level to a specific 
career and to provide earn-and-learn opportunities for workers. 
Engaging employers in the creation of these apprenticeship 
programs better allows the training to follow the current 
market demands and to adjust as needed. Within industry, the 
particulars for careers vary by location. So, encouraging 
States to take the lead better allows those particulars to 
consistently track with that specific market. I look forward to 
finding ways to encourage States to increase their involvement 
in apprenticeship programs. I enjoy hearing the great stories 
about the State programs that are in Wisconsin, in Maryland, 
and in my home State of Virginia. But what we are really 
talking about here, boiling it down to, is stripping away a lot 
of the Federal program and director--direction encouraging 
reciprocity among the States when it comes to a lot of these 
standards, and getting the government out of the way.
    Ms. Noteboom, can you discuss what aspects of IBM's 
apprenticeship model have made it so successful?
    Ms. Noteboom. Absolutely. First and foremost, we are hiring 
for IT jobs, and creating an inclusive environment where our 
messaging is if you have got the right skills, you have got a 
career at IBM, is critical for visibility to an 
underrepresented population. So, key to our success is that we 
created apprenticeships and registered them with the DOL and 
then sought partnerships with other employers. For example, the 
Consumer Technology Association that runs the Consumer 
Electronics Show in Las Vegas, we partnered with them to form 
the Apprenticeship Coalition to help drive industry awareness 
and adoption so that we can scale.
    Mr. Cline. So, a lot of private sector working together to 
establish these best practices.
    Ms. Noteboom. But also in coupling on Dr. Foy's good point 
from earlier, we are partnering with the community colleges as 
well--
    Mr. Cline. Right.
    Ms. Noteboom [continuing]. so that they can sponsor and use 
the Registered Apprenticeships that we have created. So, we are 
partnering with Wake Tech, Moberly Area Community Colleges, and 
many others. That is the success is in the scale.
    Mr. Cline. It is in grassroots ground up State specific 
programs that you are working with here, not a Federal top 
down. And, yes, it is a Federal program, but the innovation is 
coming from the State level, correct?
    And you mentioned best practices, does the law prevent you 
from sharing best practices outside the apprenticeship process?
    Ms. Noteboom. No.
    Mr. Cline. OK. Well, I think that what we want to do is to 
find a way to encourage the private sector to take the lead, 
encourage the States to take the lead. I think the draft that 
we have got here with a 15 percent non-Federal match 
requirement is woefully inadequate. I think that we need to see 
the private sector and the States, the non-Federal components 
of this, step up to the plate.
    But I also think we need to find ways to empower States to 
better serve their communities both through apprenticeship 
program creation and through promoting these opportunities to 
prospective apprentices. And we have to remember that we are 
funning annual deficits of over $1 trillion. We have to ask 
whether it is responsible to consider a bill to expand 
programs, even successful programs that are well-meaning like 
these programs, when the majority hasn't presented a budget 
plan for the next year. And when we are putting so much on the 
Federal Government and leaving so little to be picked up by the 
States and by the private sector.
    So, I look forward to continuing this conversation. And, 
again, I appreciate the witnesses for being here. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Ms. Bonamici of Oregon.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you very much. And thank you to Chair 
Davis and Ranking Member Smucker for this hearing today, and 
thank you to our witnesses. But thank you to the leadership of 
the committee for approaching this important issue on a 
bipartisan basis. I have often said that I am a big believer in 
higher education, but we have to have a path for everyone, and 
not everyone is on the same path. And I have seen in my home 
State of Oregon, where Registered Apprenticeships and pre-
apprenticeships are really helping people and I am especially 
looking at women and people of color and dislocated workers, 
and it is helping them access good-paying jobs. It is so 
important.
    A few months ago, I had this great roundtable conversation. 
Our friends in labor at UA Local 290 Training Center, the 
Plumbers and Steamfitters, hosted it for us. We had about 30 
people around the table, apprentices and union leaders. Sade 
was a--gone through the Steamfitters Local 290 program said, ?I 
love what I do. People who look like me coming into these 
spaces matters.? Jackie said, ?IBEW gave me a chance.? Single 
moms like Sarah said, ?Without Constructing Hope's Pre-
Apprenticeship Training Program, I would never be here 
providing a better life for my kids and myself.? And I noted 
there were three women there. We have this wonderful 
organization called Oregon Trades Women is really helping women 
get into the trades and show them those opportunities. And I 
know how these Registered Apprenticeships and pre-
apprenticeships and youth apprenticeships are all helping 
workers, especially those with barriers. And we have had that 
conversation here this morning.
    As entire sectors of our economy are on the brink of 
significant transformation as well, we need to rapidly scale up 
our investments in Registered Apprenticeships to recognize the 
future of work and respond to local work force needs. And I am 
glad to see apprenticeships expanding in new fields. It is 
really important. I have worked with Chair Davis and 
Congressman Ferguson and Congressman Guthrie to introduce the 
Promoting Apprenticeships through Regional Training Networks 
for Employers Required Skills, easier to remember as PARTNERS 
Act. We have been working on this bipartisan bill that invests 
existing Federal dollars in industry partnerships that bring 
together employers, education, training, labor, community-based 
organizations to facilitate the creation of these on-the-job 
programs that meet the demands of employers, but also provide 
workers with important support.
    I am grateful that Chair Davis incorporated many of our 
provisions into this National Apprenticeship Act 
reauthorization we are working on today.
    And, Mr. Bustillo, thank you so much for H-CAP's continued 
support for the PARTNERS Act. In your testimony, you discussed 
the importance of apprentices accessing supportive services, 
which is an important part of the bill. You know, such as 
childcare or transportation, housing assistance. How do local 
intermediaries and industry partnerships support the expansion 
of Registered Apprenticeships? And how can these partnerships 
make sure that the apprentices are receiving the necessary 
supportive services that they need to succeed?
    Mr. Bustillo. Thank you. So, I am going to answer it in the 
frame of healthcare as well. So, thinking about healthcare, one 
of the things that I appreciate, certainly, about the PARTNERS 
Act is the fact that there is a focus on intermediaries, 
obviously, industry partnerships, but small and mid-sized firms 
as well.
    Ms. Bonamici. Right.
    Mr. Bustillo. So, we think about healthcare, normally most 
folks would think, would assume that healthcare employers are 
all large employers, which is not the case. We have many small 
and mid-sized firms in healthcare that have tremendous work 
force needs. And, you know, we have a care crisis coming in 
this country, right? So, thinking about the direct care workers 
and the looming care crisis that we have as well, these are 
important considerations.
    So, we have no 50-State healthcare employers, right? That 
does not exist. So, intermediary partnerships at the local and 
regional level are certainly critical to helping develop the 
infrastructure and ecosystem that is needed to drive this work 
forward in healthcare. So, thinking about intermediaries doing 
work related to wraparound services, supportive services as 
well, right? Whether it is through--directly through those 
organizations, working with employers and unions on coming up 
with solutions to that, working with local human service 
provider organizations, as well. It is really about creating 
that local infrastructure and that connection across the 
continuum, which includes career and technical educations in 
community colleges as well. Thinking about removing some of the 
administrative burden to expand these programs and also 
thinking about aggregating demand, right? Which is really 
important in healthcare if you think about small and mid-sized 
firms.
    Ms. Bonamici. Absolutely.
    Mr. Bustillo. Those are all critical considerations to 
helping drive this work forward in healthcare.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. And as 
with our aging population, we really need to address the needs 
in healthcare.
    Secretary Robinson, in your testimony you mentioned that 
Maryland uses Department of Labor apprenticeship expansion 
grant funding to support pre-apprenticeship programs. Why is it 
important for pre-apprenticeships to be registered?
    Ms. Robinson. So, the pre-apprenticeship prepares those 
that may have barriers that aren't quite ready for--to enter 
the Registered Apprenticeship, to kind of get what they need to 
get the initial skills training to be on a path where they can 
step into a position where they are ready to take on the 
learning and earning model. You know, we have--you mentioned 
kind of regional areas, we have assigned regional 
apprenticeship navigators in--that work out of some of our 
American job centers. Kind of using some of our Wagner-Peyser 
money to help direct people to apprenticeships when it works. 
That works well for us in terms of pre-apprenticeship programs 
because, obviously, our American job centers are hubs for all 
kinds of agencies to focus on that barrier removal. We are 
working at that level in the pre-apprenticeship timeframe to do 
everything that they need to get them ready to step into the 
Registered Apprenticeships role so that we can make sure that 
they are successful.
    Ms. Bonamici. Terrific. Thank you. My time has expired. I 
yield back.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Dr. Foxx of North Carolina, 
who is the ranking member of the full Labor and Education 
Committee.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. And I want 
to thank our witnesses for being here today, also.
    Dr. Foy, I appreciated your testimony highlighting the need 
for increased alignment between education and the work force 
and you talked about the importance of having a focus on on-
ramps to lifelong learning. I believe those principles speak to 
the need for students and families to have as many options as 
possible for pathways to successful careers. And by the way, a 
lot of people are using that word, ?pathways,? and I think it 
is a good word to use. How has your experience with the 
apprenticeship model in Wisconsin helped you send the message 
that there are other alternatives beside the traditional 
baccalaureate pathway that people tend to focus on?
    Ms. Foy. I think several of the witnesses have testified to 
this effect already, but a connection between various kinds of 
apprenticeship. Youth apprenticeship, pre-apprenticeship, 
Registered Apprenticeship, is a part of that pathway concept, 
and it helps us reach a broader audience in terms of what is 
available and what kind of compensation options are available. 
I think the expansion of the areas in which apprenticeship is 
now being recognized as a valuable pathway or in our minds a 
delivery model for higher ed.
    I think the youth apprenticeship movement in Wisconsin has 
made a huge difference, Representative, because we are getting 
an opportunity to expose younger people earlier on. And the 
fact that we connect that exposure now to actual not just high 
school credit, but college credit, makes it a lot more 
appealing. You know, it legitimizes. It is not just I am 
checking out what it would be like to be an electrician. I am 
earning college credit while I am doing this. And that--
    Ms. Foxx. Congratulations--
    Ms. Foy [continuing]. makes a big difference.
    Ms. Foxx [continuing]. to you on what you all are doing in 
Wisconsin.
    Ms. Foy. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Foxx. That is great. Ms. Noteboom, as you know, I think 
I have been very familiar with what IBM is doing and have 
visited with your folks there, the New Collar program. What 
benefits have you seen from expanding the talent pool that IBM 
is drawing from in meeting the labor market needs? You have 
alluded to it, but if you want to say more that is fine.
    Ms. Noteboom. Sure. From my personal experience, I have 
hired hundreds of candidates in places like Raleigh, Baton 
Rouge, Columbia, Missouri. And we had the ability to open the 
doors of IBM and showcase our professions and allow and create 
pathways for folks in the community to access our professions 
through apprenticeships. This allowed IBM to custom train and 
educate resources on exactly the skills we need, providing them 
opportunity and help lessoning the skill gap for us.
    Ms. Foxx. Well, I do want to ask you to start using the 
word ?education? and not say ?train.? I have to bring it up if 
anybody says that word because I will tell you again, every 
time you use that word, you think dog. Because what I learned 
in my doctoral work is you train dogs and you educate people. 
And I don't think any of you mean to say that, but that is the 
implication. And so I ask you if you would do that.
    Would you make another comment or two about the P-TECH 
program because I am fairly familiar with it, but if you would 
talk a little bit more about it, and particularly, I think you 
all have had a lot of success in New York in the P-TECH 
program.
    Ms. Noteboom. Yes. Our P-TECH model creates pathways in 
students grades 9 to 14 to earn both a high school diploma and 
an industry recognized postsecondary degree at no cost. So, it 
exposes them to in-demand high-tech jobs at an earlier point 
than traditional. And what is amazing about the program, and it 
has truly scaled. We have got 220 schools, 600 employer 
partners, and we are in 24 countries. It showcases to these 
individuals that they have options. They have a career pathway 
in IT or they could pursue higher education, and many have.
    Ms. Foxx. Well, and I think there is a way for this to be 
replicated by other industries. And in my area, I am seeing 
what they call healthcare academies and other things like this.
    Ms. Robinson, I would like to make one comment about 
something you were saying before. You were talking about these 
programs as though all they do is prepare you for a career. And 
I think it is important that we emphasize that all education is 
focused on our getting a career. If people get a baccalaureate 
degree, I think we have a sense and it is part of our problem I 
believe in our country that we have developed the sense that if 
you, ?get an education you don't go to work.? And if you get 
something less than a baccalaureate degree you work. Well, I 
would like to say that everybody I know almost that has a 
baccalaureate degree that wants to work actually works. And I 
think it is important we not distinguish between the two and in 
some of your comments it appears as that is the way you are 
doing it.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. And next we have Mr. Norcross 
from New Jersey.
    Mr. Norcross. Thank you, Madam Chair. There are 214 lawyers 
in Congress and only one electrician, and you are looking at 
him. So, I know a little bit about this. And the narrative that 
somehow in order to make it in this world you have to go to a 
4-year degree is something that we are hearing today over and 
over. That is absolutely not true. Now, it might be right for 
some. As I like to say, when my kids were born, I didn't know 
if they wanted to go to college, build a college, or defend a 
college. We need each of those in our society and most 
importantly, we need to value them equally. That is somehow if 
you go to college, you are better than, is certainly not the 
way. And I will say constructionsite to Congress is not the 
normal pathway, but it is something that we understand.
    So, I want to go into a couple of issues concerning how we 
got here as a Nation. You know, our parents, teachers, 
counselors, all put into our heads as we are going through 
school, college. Not service to your country. Not going into a 
trade. So, I think fundamentally it starts at home that whether 
you work with your hands and your head in an apprenticeship 
that might take you through the electrical, the UA, the IBEW, 
or you go to a 4-year school, at age 18, I ask people this on a 
regular basis, when you decided what you wanted to do before 
you graduated high school, are you doing what you thought you 
were going to do? And almost across the board, nobody is where 
they thought they would be. It is called life. That is why the 
idea of going to college at 18 is perfect for some who know 
what they want to do and are focused on that.
    But the on ramps and the off ramps that our ranking member 
talked about are so important. We did a 4-year apprenticeship 
program. I went back to college later on. There are others who 
went back, picked up the college degree because they wanted to 
pursue a career. So at different points in your life college 
works for some.
    But let me walk back. The building trades have for over 100 
years have been building an apprenticeship program second to 
none. Have virtually no money from government put into them. 
They are self-funded. They do a great job. But having standards 
is so critically important because the construction industry in 
itself is transient. You have the ebbs and flows and with that 
the work force. So, without standards the idea of an 
electrician being trained in California to a different set of 
standards is ridiculous. The idea that they come back and 
forth, we go within workplaces across this country is 
incredibly important. So, standards there. But we also have to 
be open for industry outside of the building trades to create 
their own apprenticeship programs, those standards. So, what we 
want to talk about with you, Mr. Bustill--did I pronounce that 
correctly?
    Mr. Bustillo. Bustillo.
    Mr. Norcross. Bustillo. SEIU, somebody who traditionally 
wasn't involved in those career paths that involved the 
building trades, but they are outside that. So, for instance, 
as a first-year electrician, you would never be sent to a job 
in order to work there alone. You worked through side-by-side 
with a journeyman as you go through, and more and more. But in 
the nursing industry, you have to wait until you graduate 
before you start work. They have not made that transition. 
Would you walk through some of the programs SEIU and others 
have worked with over the years to kind of explain the 
difference between waiting until the end of your formal 
education to start, and apprenticeship where you work through 
it?
    Mr. Bustillo. Sure, I am happy to do so. So, in my written 
testimony I provided a list of the nationally registered 
occupations that H-CAP has. We have 13 different occupations 
registered nationally with 2 pending. Fourteen of those are in 
healthcare, one of them is in childcare as well. Because we 
do--we have done some apprenticeship childcare work, which is a 
critical need. So, clearly there is a difference, right?
    And I think you are right in saying that quality 
standards--one of the things that is attractive to us is the 
quality and rigor of the Registered Apprenticeship framework, 
right? I think that is clearly something that has been well-
established. Healthcare is a different industry in the sense 
that--and you don't see any nursing occupations other than 
licensed practical nurse listed on what I told you. Healthcare 
is a highly credentialed and licensed and regulated 
environment. And there is a difference between prelicensure and 
post-licensure. So, if you look at Registered Apprenticeship 
Programs around the country that are nursing related, the 
majority of them are post-licensure. Just because of some 
misfit between the Registered Apprenticeship model and some of 
the regulations around nursing boards and things of that sort.
    So, we have certainly focused on a variety of other 
occupations where there is critical industry need in 
healthcare. So, most of these are hospital-based, but some of 
them are community-based as well too. So, home care as an 
example where individual home care workers we know--I am using 
home care as a catchall, 1.2 million workers are going to be 
needed over the next decade. That is a different model in the 
sense that you are working in someone's home as well. You are 
not at a physical worksite. You are not in a hospital. It is a 
disaggregated site of employment. So, the models are a little 
bit different, but the mentorship component that you are 
referring to is certainly something that we take very seriously 
and have developed a lot of resources around because clearly 
that is one of the things that differentiates the Registered 
Apprenticeship model from more traditional training models.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you.
    Mr. Norcross. I yield back. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Davis. Mr. Comer of Kentucky.
    Mr. Comer. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I really appreciate 
this hearing. This is a huge issue all over America. One of the 
biggest challenges and obstacles I hear from employers and job 
creators in my congressional district in Kentucky is the fact 
that they have a difficult, if not impossible, time finding 
enough skilled workers. Whether it is Tarter Gate Company, 
which is the largest farm equipment manufacturer in the United 
States, which is located in Casey County, Kentucky, or Amazon's 
Fulfillment Center, which is one of the original fulfillment 
centers, which is in Campbellsville, Kentucky, any time I stop 
in and meet with a pretty large employer, their challenge isn't 
necessarily the trade war or tax policy or the regulatory 
environment, which they have concerns with all three of those, 
their biggest concern is the fact that they can't find workers. 
And that impedes their ability to grow and expand and invest 
additional capital, which we so desperately need in this 
economy.
    As I travel around to high schools and middle schools, and 
I talk to students or talk to parents of children in school 
now, I talk to them about the great technical system that we 
have built in Kentucky. Congressman Guthrie mentioned that 
earlier. Kentucky has made a significant investment in area 
technology centers next to high schools. Kentucky has made a 
significant investment in the community colleges all across the 
State. And we are starting to have a lot better communication 
between industry leaders, employers, and the education system 
on what type of curriculum to offer and to provide. And they 
are starting to be more flexible, which is something that you 
have all discussed in your testimony today.
    But we still have a challenge in Kentucky getting students 
enrolled in these classes. Even though we have fabulous 
schools, fabulous facilities, we have good communication 
between the employers and the school system on what type of 
curriculum to offer and which instructors to use, we still--
there is still a stigma out there with parents and with some 
school officials in we are not going to push students that 
route. We are going push students to go to a university and get 
a 4-year degree. I meet students every day that have recently 
graduated from college with excessive amounts of student loan 
debt, something we talk about in this committee each week, but 
they can't find a job based on the degree they attained all 
that student loan debt in.
    What can we do in Congress--my question is for everyone on 
the panel, if you could briefly give us an answer, what can we 
do in Congress to reverse that stigma and to encourage, 
successfully encourage more students to enroll in these 
classes, which are so desperately needed in the work force?
    Ms. Noteboom. Congressman, I will begin. We would urge the 
House to remove the obstacles in the Higher Education Act as I 
mentioned in my oral testimony to help better prepare students 
for apprenticeship programs and remove the barriers and 
restrictions on short-term programs and Federal work-study. So, 
enabling more access to certificate programs, for example, 
under 600 hours.
    Ms. Foy. Yes, I would support that as well. I would support 
looking at using student financial aid support for shorter term 
programs, as long as they can demonstrate quality. Honestly, 
Representative, having hearings like this considering 
reauthorization of the National Apprenticeship Bill after all 
these decades, keeping the focus on career paths and options 
for career paths, having you talk about this has an impact. 
People listen. Just like they listen to our big State employers 
and national employers talking about different ways to be 
successful in their companies.
    Learners are really changing and education maybe is chasing 
their tail in a bit, but putting the pressure on educators to 
make sure that all of our options lead to each other. We have a 
lot of bachelor's degree holders in Wisconsin, too, that are 
not finding employment opportunities. Well, it is on us to make 
sure that other educational programs, apprenticeship, 
technical, certifications are available to them without having 
to start over at square one. That is the biggest barrier we 
have, actually, is repeating work, repeating time and expense 
to get to a new credential or an advanced credential. That is 
an industry credential or an academic one. So, we need to 
really work on that and we need you to keep holding our feet to 
the fire and talking about it as a valuable option.
    Mr. Comer. Well, I can assure you I will do that. I know 
many of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle will continue 
to do that because that is a complaint we hear every day from 
our employers. And, you know, it is just hard to imagine that 
there has been so much information already spread out about 
this is where you can make more money, these are available jobs 
right now right after graduation. Many times employers will pay 
for tuition for students to go to these programs so they can 
graduate without student loan debt, which is a huge issue in 
American right now. So, I am going to continue to do my job.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you.
    Mr. Comer. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. Thank you for that 
question. Ms. Jayapal of Washington State.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair. And this is just such 
a wonderful hearing. I was thinking as I was listening to you, 
Dr. Foy, that my husband is from Pittsburgh and thanks to 
Social Security death benefits when his dad died, he was 
actually able to get a 4-year education. But then he really 
wanted to do something with his hands. And so he enrolled in a 
3-year apprenticeship program that was both on-the-job and 
classroom and became a bricklayer and a marble mason and 
journey level, and he talks about that experience all the time. 
And it is just so valuable the work that you all do. So, thank 
you.
    Apprenticeships, especially joint labor management 
programs, are effective in helping workers move into skilled 
and middle-class jobs. And in my home State of Washington, 
joint labor management apprenticeship programs increased total 
compensation for an individual apprentice by an incredible 
average of over $810,000 over the apprenticeship's lifetime. 
But there are barriers that keep many disadvantaged and under 
represented workers from starting and staying in apprentice--
apprenticeships, barriers that Congress has the power to 
address as we reauthorize the National Apprenticeship Act.
    I heard about many of these similar barriers when I was a 
Washington State senator. And so I created within the 
Department of Transportation the Washington State Pre-
Apprenticeship Support Services program, which helps socially 
and economically disadvantaged people, specifically women and 
folks of color, to complete their apprenticeships by addressing 
those barriers and linking the funding to community-based 
organizations that could both recruit but also help people 
through as they went into a very undefined and new environment. 
It has been incredibly successful. It is partnerships between 
the building trades unions, employers, and community-based 
organizations.
    The ironworkers, just as an example, have also learned a 
lot of lessons. The importance of trade-specific training to 
increase retention of those, for example, who enter the 
construction industry but don't have all the terminology when 
they get in there.
    The PASS program has yielded impressive results and it has 
now been expanded. This served 780 people in the last 2 years 
with a graduation rate of 92 percent. And the program has been 
particularly effective in supporting people who were formerly 
incarcerated to access middle class jobs.
    So, Mr. Bustillo, let me start with you and ask, what 
specific kinds of supportive services should the committee 
prioritize to help workers overcome those barriers to 
completing pre-apprenticeship programs?
    Mr. Bustillo. Thank you. So, I think the biggest issues 
that we see are some of the obvious ones like childcare. I 
think transportation you mentioned as well, clearly important. 
Housing assistance, you know, but oftentimes folks who are in 
educational programs are derailed through some unexpected 
emergency as well. So, there have been some emergency 
assistance funds as well. They are a little bit more 
comprehensive, but I think have been highly successful. So, I 
would think about those four to start with.
    Ms. Jayapal. Very flexible funds, too.
    Mr. Bustillo. Yes.
    Ms. Jayapal. Yes. Secretary Robinson, under your 
leadership, the Maryland Department of Labor has identified 
some key barriers to employment and apprenticeship. Are there 
particular ones that you want to make sure that you emphasize 
today for us to think about?
    Ms. Robinson. Thank you. I would mention back the comments 
that I made earlier about our reentry programs. Oftentimes that 
population has significant barriers, so the funding for pre-
apprenticeship behind the fence allows us to take care of those 
so that they are ready and prepared to move into a Registered 
Apprenticeship. I might add that flexibility in the State match 
is allowed to count State funding that is set aside for this 
type of barrier removal would be helpful.
    We in Maryland have a program called EARN, Employment 
Advancement Right Now, that is industry-led. We seek out 
partnerships of employers. We ask them exactly what skills and 
what gaps they have in their work force. We have them kind of 
tell us what they are looking for and we pull together and 
recruit cohorts of individuals to be educated and trained. What 
we do during that timeframe it is kind of another version of a 
pre-apprenticeship. We spend a lot of time removing barriers, 
everything from transportation, healthcare, housing, you know, 
creating the curriculum. And the benefit of that is when they 
are done, they either have interviews already set up with some 
of those industry partners or they are ready to move into a 
Registered Apprenticeship Program.
    Ms. Jayapal. Ms. Noteboom, I have 17 seconds left. But what 
role can pre-apprenticeship and apprenticeship programs play in 
strengthening diversity in representation in these industries?
    Ms. Noteboom. IBM believes it has a responsibility as a 
corporate steward to make tech very inclusive. And by improving 
the pathways and opening them up to a larger underrepresented 
population, it does just that. Makes the population more 
accessible to technology and vice versa.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair. I request unanimous 
consent to enter the following documents into the record: the 
Washington State Report on the PASS Program, Story of a 
Formerly Homeless Washington Youth Served by a Pre-
Apprenticeship Program, and the Washington State Labor 
Council's 2019 Report on Apprenticeships.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Unanimous consent, without 
objection.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Mr. Meuser of Pennsylvania.
    Mr. Meuser. Thank you, Chairwoman. Thank you, Chairwoman 
Davis, very much and Ranking Member Smucker, and certainly 
thank all of you for being here with us today.
    Like many of my colleagues, a key priority of mine for my 
district is economic revitalization. Workforce development 
comes up every day, usually several times a day. And it does 
play a very key role in maximizing our local economy and job 
employment and such. There are many schools in my district, 
especially one that I boast about often, Conrad Weiser in Berks 
County, as well as Central Columbia High School, that have 
implemented curriculums and plans that really expose high 
school students. Conrad Weiser more toward STEM initiatives, 
but various technical career paths. And it is fantastic. You 
see young people who perhaps weren't getting the most out of 
their education, now they have a bounce in their step. And they 
are very enthused about what they are working on and clearly it 
is very important.
    We also have a number of career and technical institutes as 
do many districts. But I think ours are--in Pennsylvania's 9th 
congressional, are fantastic. And they have many, many students 
these days thanks to various student funds and student loans 
being made available for career and technical schools: the 
Schuylkill Career and Technical Center, the Berks County Career 
and Technical Center, the Carbon, and a few others. So, we 
really have our share. But we are still not maximizing the 
connectivity between the private sector, skills development, 
and the schools. So, it is why I am happy to have this hearing.
    And my first question will go to Ms. Noteboom. Good to see 
you again. You put together impressive plan, apprenticeship 
program at IBM. How do you think that can be applied well to 
smaller businesses or mid-sized businesses?
    Ms. Noteboom. Small and mid-sized businesses in today's 
digital economy have a need for many of the same skill sets for 
the Registered Apprenticeships that we are creating. So, they 
can reuse those. We also have partnerships with local community 
colleges so they can sponsor the DOL's Registered 
Apprenticeship Programs, take them and apply them to local 
employers.
    Mr. Meuser. OK. I am holding a roundtable work force 
development day in my district next week, or the week after. 
And what would you suggest? We have businesses, we have got 
some of the career and technical schools. I have got chambers 
coming in. I have every party and stakeholder I think along the 
way here. Hopefully, I am going to have a couple of students to 
provide their input as well. So, what would you discuss? What 
would you bring up at such a meeting? And what sort of ideas 
could you share with me that would help us maximize what we are 
all working on?
    Ms. Noteboom. I would express that you State the benefits 
of both the apprentice and the employer. So, showcasing to the 
apprenticeship candidates that it is an opportunity, another 
area of choice, another pathway, other than pursuing a 4-year 
degree. And then to the employer, there are many benefits. They 
are able to get the right mix of skills that they need for 
their business, and also, work with local community colleges to 
provide related technical instruction.
    Mr. Meuser. You know, I find the private sector drives 
this, right? They know what they need. They know the people 
they need. They know what products they are making and what 
skills are necessary. I get concerned that sometimes we are 
pushing it from the education side of it. I mean, it needs to 
be balanced come the end of the day. Outside of demand for the 
right people, which is clear, are there any other incentives 
that you can think of, or any of you for that matter in the 
limited time, for how to activate the private sector more so 
toward understanding and appreciate and gain knowledge on the 
career and technical schools and the skills development that is 
taking place? Or do you find it should be more done by the 
business themselves?
    Ms. Noteboom. We have partnered with many organizations 
through the Consumer Technology Association. We formed an 
apprenticeship coalition to help drive industry awareness and 
adoption of programs like the Registered Apprenticeship 
Program. There are over 40 companies in that of all sizes. They 
are scaling apprenticeships and it allows us to be more 
responsive and them as well to their changing skill needs.
    Mr. Meuser. Thank you. Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Ms. Lee of Nevada.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Ranking Member, 
for having this hearing today on apprenticeship programs, and 
all of you for testifying.
    One issue I want to address is aligning our push for high-
quality apprenticeships with critical or emerging sectors of 
our modern economy, such as our cybersecurity work force. I am 
proud to have introduced the Cyber Ready Workforce Act with 
Representative Stefanik. And this act will award grants to work 
force entities to support the creation of Registered 
Apprenticeship Programs in cybersecurity. Specifically, this 
Registered Apprenticeship Program would include industry-
recognized certification in cybersecurity and encourage 
stackable and portable credits.
    Secretary Robinson, I was interested to read through your 
testimony on particular industries and occupations that were 
once considered nonapprenticeable. You reference new 
innovations in Registered Apprenticeship and the culture shift 
in how instruction is provided to those apprentices. Can you 
walk us through the strategy that your State used in bolstering 
apprenticeship programs in formerly nontraditional areas, such 
as information technology and cybersecurity?
    Ms. Robinson. Sure, thank you. Our Maryland Apprenticeship 
Training Council listens to proposals from all industries on 
any type of proposed--in these nontraditional industries 
usually competency-based programs. We work through them. We 
provide a lot of hands-on technical assistance. We also work 
with sponsors and try to recruit sponsors that serve as 
intermediaries. For example, we have a university that is 
serving as a cyber intermediary and helping us to recruit and 
register sponsors through our council. That has been really 
helpful. They have students on campus with cyber programs. And 
so the direct education piece is a no brainer.
    I would say that in competency-based programs, these types 
of nontraditional industries didn't used to look at 
apprenticeship as a model because they didn't like the longer 
timeframe. They wanted to see the specific skill attainment. 
And they are willing to stick with someone a little bit longer 
if it takes them a little bit longer and they would like to see 
if someone can pass certain levels of those skill attainments 
sooner, they can push them right into earning more wages, you 
know. And it works in Maryland. We have 25 competency-based 
programs right now. And that number is growing. So, thank you.
    Ms. Lee. Great, thank you. And, Ms. Noteboom, obviously, I 
love the model that you all use and hopefully in Nevada, my 
home State, we can sort of combine the lessons from both and 
move this forward because it is obviously an incredibly 
important area for us not just in Nevada, but across the 
country.
    Another issue that this committee has explored within the 
context of evaluating employment trends is the future of work. 
And with the rapid changes in innovation affecting sectors of 
our economy, it is clear we need to think about what the 
resulting implications for the work force will be. In 
particular, in my home State of Nevada, is the most vulnerable 
to the effects of job automation according to a study by the 
company, SmartAsset. And in particular, the Las Vegas metro 
area ranks in the top 5 of 150 metropolitan areas that were 
analyzed. So, this is an incredibly important issue for our 
work force development.
    And my question would be to both you, Secretary Robinson 
and Dr. Foy. In terms of your work force development 
strategies, including bolstering apprenticeship opportunities, 
can you explain to what extent you have taken into account any 
data or analysis concerning automation or other job-related 
risk to specific occupation categories?
    Ms. Foy. I will start. It is actually one of the driving 
forces, I think, behind some of our new industries' interest in 
apprenticeship. We started talking about it as a delivery 
model, not as something reserved exclusively for the trades. 
And that concern about automation is really for us a lifelong 
learning problem because we don't have a lot of new 
Wisconsinites being born. We don't have a lot of new 
Wisconsinites graduating from high school or certainly not at 
the levels that we have had in the past. So, our employers are 
faced with the situation of they have literally two choices. 
They can upskill their current work force and they can tap into 
previously nonparticipants in their industry. So, attracting 
new groups from our population. And apprenticeship is a great 
way to do that because you are working while you are learning. 
And there is virtually no cost to apprentices in our State. So, 
it is actually how we are addressing the automation is that we 
are giving our incumbent work force the skills they are going 
to need to run those machines instead of doing the work the 
machines are doing.
    Ms. Lee. Great, thanks. I have run out of time.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, sorry.
    Chairwoman Davis. Let us go to Mr. Scott of Virginia, the 
Chairman of the full Education and Labor Committee.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Robinson, 
Ms. Noteboom pointed out the benefits for the apprentice and 
for the employer. Have you tracked students going through these 
programs to see what benefit it would be to the government in 
terms of increased taxes, less reliance on social services, so 
that when the government makes investments in these programs, 
you actually get a good return?
    Ms. Robinson. So, we have an entire data team. We 
appreciate the data that comes from the United States 
Department of Labor, but we have an entire data team in our 
State agency as well. I may have to get back to you on some of 
those specific numbers, but we look at trends in savings in all 
sectors of our apprenticeship programs. So, I would love to 
followup on that.
    I would like to say that in terms of the youth side of 
things, we talked earlier about informing them this is a career 
path. Oftentimes, we are talking more to the parents in that 
regard because it is the parents we need to convince that this 
is an alternate career path. Oftentimes, for the student it is 
important for us to emphasize that they will be allowed to earn 
wages and make money while they are learning and they will come 
out of an apprenticeship with skills and credentials that they 
can take with them forever no matter where their career takes 
them.
    Mr. Scott. And in terms of the return on investment from 
the government, I mean, if you have less social services, more 
taxes, if you are talking about youth, probably less 
incarceration, it seems to be a good investment on behalf of 
the government.
    Ms. Robinson. A very good investment indeed.
    Mr. Scott. Ms. Foy, can you talk about transferability of 
credits in terms of apprentice programs if someone is in the 
program, whether or not they should be able to transfer credits 
to a 4-year institution?
    Ms. Foy. Yes, they should be. I think the trick is making 
sure that we are preparing them properly. Because it doesn't do 
the student or the apprentice any good to send them to a 4-year 
path that they are not properly aligned with what they have 
learned and how they have--what they know. So, we are working 
on that. We have had some success already in Wisconsin.
    Again, this is a changing response to the new student. They 
want to learn the way they want to learn in the timeframe that 
they want to learn, and they don't tolerate slowness on our 
part. So, we are working on it.
    I think it is an important part of the process, but 
truthfully, employers like IBM, like the national health 
associations, they are driving the interests of 4-year 
institutions in this model because, again, they want to hire 
and upskill their current work force. So, you got a great 
employee, came through apprenticeship program, now you want to 
make him a supervisor, they wanted to put him into management, 
they want him to have a bachelor's degree and they need to push 
4-year institutions to make those connections.
    Mr. Scott. Is there anything the Federal Government needs 
to do to make sure the credits are transferrable? Or is that 
something that needs to be done at the State community college 
level?
    Ms. Foy. I think that just recognizing the role of 
education in the apprenticeship model that it is not something 
for work force departments or labor departments only to care 
about. That puts the emphasis--and that is something that the 
Congress has the power to do by making agreements between the 
Department of Education, making that responsibility in that 
role formalized in the apprenticeship authorization act.
    Mr. Scott. Thank you. Madam Chair, we have heard a lot 
about the short-term PELL program, and I think that we have, 
just to let the witnesses know, we have a I think a consensus 
that we know PELL grants can be used for college courses that 
lead to a degree. But at this time, if all it leads to is a 
good job, you can't use the PELL grant. And I think the idea 
that you would be able to use it for a quality program that 
leads to a good job is something we ought to do. The trick, as 
we have heard, is to maintain quality. And I think we can trust 
the community colleges or the work force investment boards if 
they are referring to a program, I think if we restrict the use 
to those, we won't get into the problem where somebody can open 
up a storefront operation and just take all the PELL grant 
money and provide no real service. But I think there is a 
consensus that the short-term PELL ought to be available.
    Our community colleges in Virginia have established these 
kinds of short-term programs, preapprentice programs, for 
example, where in 8 to 16 weeks you can learn, you can get the 
benefit, you can be first in line for an apprenticeship, your 
income will go up 25, 50, 100 percent, as they have studied. 
But if you don't have the money for the course, you can't go. 
If you can use the PELL grant, you can probably cover the 
tuition and a little money left over for living expenses so you 
can actually afford to go. So, I think there is a consensus on 
that and if we pass the Higher Education Bill, I think you can 
count on that being part of it.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Mr. Takano from California.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Chairwoman 
Davis and Ranking Member Smucker, for this bipartisan hearing 
on the reauthorization of the National Apprenticeship Act and 
the need to increase high-quality Registered Apprenticeship 
Programs.
    As our witnesses have Stated, the earn-as-you-learn model 
is the foundation of an apprenticeship program. Similar to 
Wisconsin, my home State of California is making some great 
strides in expanding this apprenticeship model to the K-12 
system. Dr. Foy, in your testimony you laid out the model for 
youth apprenticeships where a student receives a diploma, some 
college credit, and a certificate of occupational proficiency 
from the State's work force department. My question to you is 
what steps did Wisconsin take to transition to an embedded 
model where college credit is a key component of the 
apprenticeship pathway?
    Ms. Foy. We are fortunate that it is a key component of our 
educational pathway, so we're already connecting the dots. We 
award over 100,000 college credits to high school students in 
our State every year. So, apprenticeship was sort of the next 
step to that is making sure that the youth apprenticeship 
curriculum was aligned with their high school curriculum and 
then with technical college curriculum.
    So, it was truthfully a lot of conversation between 
teachers, between educators making sure that they were covering 
the same thing and also connecting those conversations with our 
employers. Everything we do in Wisconsin is focused on 
providing a talent pipeline for local employers. So, we would 
be bringing in major employers in the region or an area and 
getting them to talk to high school students and getting them 
to talk to high school faculty because that is really the key 
for them to understand each other's work.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you. Those conversations with high 
school faculty is really critical. Often they get, I think, 
isolated from the kinds of connections they need to be making 
to have these programs be effective.
    As we have heard, wraparound services and creating local 
infrastructure are important. So, Dr. Foy, what are the best 
ways for States to leverage community college infrastructure 
with their Registered Apprenticeship Programs?
    Ms. Foy. I think community colleges are in a good spot to 
be helpful here because we emphasize a lot of wraparound 
services. We tend to be smaller. We tend to have a majority of 
our students are part-time so they are heavy users of 
childcare, transportation, and other services that is a normal 
part of our delivery process. It is expected that that will be 
available. It is one of the good, I think, reasons why pre-
apprenticeship programs tend to thrive in a community college 
setting because those wraparound and support services are 
already in place for our general student population.
    I think another important service that needs to be provided 
is, again, this concept of paid related instruction and 
financial aid for short-term certifications of which 
apprenticeship can be one. And that is, I think, important 
because a lot of students, you know, they are not looking 
necessarily to get something free, especially if they are a 
person that likes the idea of apprenticeship because they are 
working. They are earning these educational opportunities. They 
are earning these wage opportunities. So, I think that that is 
one of the reasons why the community college setting makes a 
good educational base for apprenticeship programs. And, 
frankly, I just cannot say it enough, we have great 
relationships with employers because many of our faculty in 
Wisconsin's case, all of our faculty have actually worked in 
the industries in which they are educating. So, it is a lot 
easier for them to call up an employer than a K-12 teacher, for 
example.
    Mr. Takano. Very quickly, I just want to ask this last 
question. We know that many of our veterans come back from 
their service with skill sets that do not translate over to a 
traditional credit or fit into the apprenticeship model. How do 
you suggest we work to get these veterans their service counted 
as prior learning?
    Ms. Foy. I think the idea of building crosswalks between 
military experience and military work and academic programs 
that people pursue through the various service agency colleges 
is very important. That is ongoing work happening across the 
Nation with employer partners and with our work force 
development board partners and with community colleges. So, 
that is really the key. It is not that they aren't earning the 
skill set or that they are not learning the kinds of same kind 
of competencies that are being taught in an apprenticeship, it 
is that we haven't formally recognized the relationship between 
what happens when you are doing military service and what 
happens when you are in civilian life. So, it is that crosswalk 
building that needs to be done.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Dr. Foy, and thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Ms. Adams of North Carolina.
    Ms. Adams. Thank you, Chairwoman Davis and thank you for 
your work on the National Apprenticeship Act reauthorization. I 
know this bill has been a priority for you for a very long 
time. As it has been to all of us who know that Registered 
Apprenticeships are essential pathways to a middle-class life. 
Thank you to the folks here who are testifying today.
    And that is why this is so important. The NAA hasn't been 
reauthorized or revisited by Congress since its enactment in 
1937. So, I don?t have to tell anybody here the different ways 
our work force has changed since 1937. And one obvious way is 
that the role of women in our economy, though unfortunately you 
wouldn't be able to tell it by the numbers. So, as of 2017, 
women made up only 7.3 percent of apprenticeships nationwide. 
Furthermore, women tend to be enrolled in apprenticeships with 
lower pay scales such as childcare where the median journey 
person wage is only $9.75 an hour compared to $23.46 an hour, 
the corresponding wage for the top male apprenticeship 
occupation, electrician.
    So, I want to open this up to the entire panel to respond. 
How can our Nation attract more women into Registered 
Apprenticeships as a career pathway? And how can we ensure 
equitable access to Registered Apprenticeships and higher 
paying occupations in industries?
    Ms. Robinson. I would like to start.
    Ms. Adams. Yes, ma'am, go right ahead.
    Ms. Robinson. Thank you for the question. I would start by 
saying that it begins with our youth. Our messaging to our 
students and our collaboration with our education partners is 
crucial to make sure that our young women understand that they 
are fully equipped to enter into some of these industries, 
especially the nontraditional industries. The way that 
apprenticeship has expanded their competency-based programs 
into areas like healthcare, hospitality, the list goes on and 
on.
    Cyber, we have a wonderful organization in Maryland called 
Girls Go Cyber that are winning competitions across the State 
and the Nation. We are proud to support them in that. But 
allowing our youth to see that happening and providing our 
teachers, our counselors, and everyone in the school system 
with the information and the connectivity to the employers that 
have those opportunities available, I think is the key.
    Ms. Adams. Yes, you can be what you see, yes. And, Dr. Foy?
    Ms. Foy. Yes, I would say that I love that answer, first of 
all. And, second, that it has been an evolution of our 
employers in our State. We are not necessarily the most 
diverse, but that desire to change that is very strong right 
now. And it has been a real pleasure for me to see our State's 
employers taking the lead on not just their desire to 
diversify, but the actual critical economic need for them to do 
so. It is good business. And it is good business practice. And 
so, they are the ones taking the lead, changing their work 
environment, changing their cultural environment, so that if a 
person enters into an apprenticeship program in their company, 
they are not going to be the only woman there. They are not 
going to be the only person of color there. And if they are the 
first, they won't be the last.
    Ms. Adams. OK. Ms. Noteboom.
    Ms. Noteboom. IBM believes that companies bringing advanced 
technologies to market have a responsibility to prepare people 
for the way those technologies shape jobs. Innovation should 
unlock opportunities for everyone to make our work force more 
inclusive, not less. So, by recognizing learning agility and 
prior skills, we are, you know, tapping into a work force that 
enables another pathway for them to succeed.
    Ms. Adams. OK. Mr. Bustillo.
    Mr. Bustillo. So, I would add two things. I think it is 
extremely important that we do the hard and critical work of 
really making the progressions we talk about substantively 
supported by wraparound support services. And also focus on a 
range of occupations. In healthcare, as an example, we have a 
severe overrepresentation of workers of color in the entry-
level lower-wage positions, severe underrepresentation in other 
occupations. So, we also have to do the work of creating 
Registered Apprenticeship Programs and pathways not just for 
those entry-level positions, entry into the profession, but 
moving up in the profession as well.
    Ms. Adams. All right. Well, a Registered Apprenticeship can 
impose a barrier to entry for people with low incomes due to 
the cost of tools and equipment. So, do you have any 
suggestions about that?
    Well, actually, I am out of time. Madam Chair,--
    Chairwoman Davis. Yes.
    Ms. Adams [continuing]. I am going to yield back, yes.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Mr. Walker of North Carolina.
    Mr. Walker. Thank you. And since Chairwoman Adams did not 
ask me to yield any of my time, I am going to take the full 5 
minutes there.
    So, but, Ms. Noteboom, you mentioned in your testimony that 
IBM has hired apprentices from my home State of North Carolina, 
where we have an office of apprenticeships within the State's 
department of labor, as you probably know. As you are aware, 
this often forces apprenticeships, in my opinion, sponsors 
specifically, to comply with two sets of standards and 
regulations that are contradicting or I would say repetitive, 
extending approval processes. So, this is where I want to hone 
in a little bit. Can you speak to the challenges that you have 
all faced due to delayed approvals for new standards?
    Ms. Noteboom. I think that there are several complexities 
about our implementations to barrier for companies and the 
length of time that it takes to get something registered with 
the U.S. Department of Labor is one of them. So, that is an 
inhibitor to other employers who are looking to leverage this 
program.
    Mr. Walker. OK, how do you think these delays and 
duplicative requirements have affected your long-term ability 
to offer these training opportunities?
    Ms. Noteboom. I think it slows us down.
    Mr. Walker. OK, so it would be a little bit of an 
impediment I would think.
    I want to move on for just a minute to talk about the 
Federal Work-Study reform. Recently, the DOE, the Department of 
Education, announced a new program in five institutions of 
higher education just in North Carolina to provide additional 
flexibility to students participating in Federal Work-Study 
programs. I was encouraged by this announcement because this 
would enable more students to have access to relevant job 
training experiences while they are simultaneously still 
earning their degree. Can you explain how these earn-and-learn 
opportunities are important for workers that are in your 
apprenticeship programs, Ms. Noteboom?
    Ms. Noteboom. So, when I was hiring many of the apprentices 
across our locations, I was particularly excited when I talked 
to these folks and their eyes lit up because they had no idea 
that IBM would give them the education, the related technical 
instruction, and the skills that they need to succeed, whether 
it be in a 24-month apprenticeship time period or a 12. So, it 
depends on whether it is a mainframe systems administration 
position or cybersecurity. So, what was exciting is that, you 
know, given how fast skills are changing, you know, a half-life 
of skills are shrinking. What this does is it helps individuals 
be lifelong learners. They are constantly learning to keep 
their skills relevant.
    Mr. Walker. Very good point there. Ms. Noteboom, again, you 
highlighted earlier the pivotal role apprenticeships play in 
the lives of workers that do not have access to traditional 
education avenues. Last year, I was proud to introduce the 
Prison to Prosperity Act, which expanded pathways to job 
training programs for underrepresented populations, including 
formerly incarcerated individuals, veterans, and students who 
have not graduated high school. In your experience, I would 
like to ask how would you describe the benefits these 
apprenticeship programs have on individuals that may not have 
the ability to enter the work force otherwise?
    Ms. Noteboom. So, one thing that we have seen a lot of 
success with is our pathways in technology program for high 
school students. So, it is a 9 through 12 program that in 
addition to their high school curriculum, they get access to IT 
skills. And then at the end, they are emboldened to either 
pursue a career in IT with us or one of the 600 employers that 
are partnering with us on the opportunity, or they go on to 
higher education. So, that is a great example of the pre-
apprenticeship opportunity.
    Mr. Walker. I don't want to be too leading, but would you 
agree that enhancing work force development opportunities for 
these underrepresented populations not only--how do I want to 
phrase this--has a direct impact for the worker, but also a 
greater economic result or return?
    Ms. Noteboom. What we are excited about at IBM is enabling 
the work force with skills. So, you know, we will always at IBM 
attract the best and the brightest whether it is mathematicians 
who do have a 4-year degree, I mean, we are the largest private 
entity that hires--that has mathematicians. We have the 
largest, I should say, population of them. But with New Collar 
roles and with apprenticeships in particular, we are expanding 
people's opportunity to enter.
    Mr. Walker. Yes, very well said. Not in my notes, but I can 
see it from you and I assume from Ms. Robinson and Dr. Foy and 
Mr. Bustillo, this means something to you. This is rewarding. 
Is that fair to say?
    Ms. Noteboom. It is absolutely fair to say. From my 
personal vantage point, even though I have a degree from 
Cornell, I was the beneficiary of a program like that in high 
school. I was in a computer-aided drafting course at the same 
time I was pursuing, you know, my regular high school 
curriculum. And what was amazing is it gave me choice.
    Mr. Walker. Yes.
    Ms. Noteboom. I had awareness.
    Mr. Walker. I can tell it is passionate and it is personal 
for you. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. And we have somewhat 
come to almost the end, but not quite because we have some 
members off the committee who are going to ask questions. But 
before that, I want to go to our Ranking Member Mr. Smucker, 
who did not ask his questions earlier, and I will follow him. 
And then our colleagues who have been waiting so long you will 
go next. Mr. Smucker.
    Mr. Smucker. Thank you. This has been a wonderful 
discussion. I appreciate the work that each of you are doing in 
your organizations.
    I want to followup a little to Representative Comer's 
comments in regards to the stigma around the trades and 
apprenticeship programs and so on. And I have seen it 
firsthand. Mr. Norcross mentioned earlier, he was an 
electrician who came to Congress. I started out hanging 
drywall. So, you know, similar to him came from a construction 
background. And then ran a construction company, owned a 
construction company. And constantly were faced with--we had 
several hundred employees, faced with a shortage of people who 
were interested in the construction trades. And we saw that 
stigma firsthand.
    One of the things that, Dr. Foy, you mention is you are 
doing things in K through 12, which I think is really important 
to begin to get students interested and knowing that there are 
choices out there like this. And then the other thing that I 
like that you are doing and I would just like you to talk about 
it a little and several of you said that you have credit-based 
programs and degree-based programs embedded right in 
apprenticeship.
    My own personal feeling is I think if you are a guidance 
counselor or a parent, that makes it more attractive. There is 
a certificate. There is something that is marketable. There is 
something that you can take. And it is obviously beneficial for 
the student. But I guess I would like you to speak to that just 
a little. Do you see that? I mean, do you think that the 
ability to earn an associate's degree, the ability for a 
company to partner with a community college or another 
organization to provide that kind of opportunity, does that 
increase the attractiveness? The attractiveness of 
apprenticeship programs?
    Ms. Foy. One hundred percent. Students today are very well-
informed and they are very assertive about maximizing their 
return on investment as well. The investment of their time and 
their energy and no parent wants to think that their child's 
choices are going to limit them in any way. Or that they are 
going to send them down a path where there is just a sort of a 
dead-end. That is one of the challenges that apprenticeship and 
2-year college education, frankly, has had to work to overcome. 
It is not a stopping point. It can be the beginning point. It 
can be the middle point of our career. It can be something that 
you are doing toward the end of your career in order to 
upskill.
    So, it makes a huge difference to get as much out of that 
time and investment of their energy as possible and that 
includes academic credential, workplace certifications, 
apprenticeship credentials, as much as we can pack in 
simultaneously we are going to do. And it is actually quite 
critical for some of these new industries that actually require 
you to have some kind of academic credential before you can sit 
for your licensing exam, for example.
    Mr. Smucker. Right. Well, I think it is wonderful that you 
are doing that.
    I do want to just confirm, Ms. Noteboom, what you had said 
in regards to sometimes the approval process makes it difficult 
for a company to start a new apprenticeship program. And we 
should do everything that we can to prevent that. I think that 
is a barrier to some students having that pathway to a career. 
I have experienced that personally, as well, in Pennsylvania. 
We had difficulty getting a new apprenticeship program 
approved. In fact, weren't able to do that. And so, you know, 
as we are considering reauthorizing this particular program, we 
should be thinking and ensuring that we are finding ways to 
make it easier for people to participate.
    One other thing I want to mention. I have just another 
minute. Several of you have talked about competency-based 
programs. You are doing that in your organization. I think, Mr. 
Bustillo, you talked about that. And, Ms. Robinson, you talked 
about that. And I know you answered some questions, but I would 
like to hear just a little bit more, maybe, Ms. Robinson, I 
will ask you. A little bit more about what that means. What is 
a competency-based program in your particular State?
    Ms. Robinson. Sure. So, our Maryland Apprenticeship and 
Training Council meets four times a year, sometimes more often, 
and provides a lot of technical assistance with our sponsors, 
businesses, partners, in the interim. When we are talking with 
businesses and they are a little bit shy about creating an 
apprenticeship program, we will walk them through the types of 
programs that have worked and can work. And oftentimes, in 
areas like cyber, we find that employers are looking for 
specific skills to be attained along the way, progressive 
skills. They need to see that you have mastered a certain set 
of skills before an apprentice is moved on to the next set. 
Unlike some more traditional trade time-based programs that the 
industry has determined that, you know, a 2-, 3-, 4-year period 
of time is significant and appropriate for that industry. We do 
believe that the industry should be making these 
determinations. But when a nontraditional industry comes to us 
or is leaning toward being interested and we can offer them the 
options of time-based, competency-based, or a hybrid, they are 
more willing to come to the table with a proposal.
    And to your point about the timeframe for approval, I would 
say that State programs have the ability to be a little bit 
more nimble. So, we can work with those partners, help them 
compare different types of programs and show them standards 
that have been approved, get lots of businesses on board to 
say, yes, this is the type of competency progressive skills we 
would want to see. And then they can get a program approved 
very quickly.
    Mr. Smucker. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. And it is now my time. I want 
to give myself 5 minutes and to really initially thank you and 
we will sum up in just a few minutes. Ms. Noteboom, I know you 
mentioned San Diego. And I will followup with that. So, we will 
work on that issue.
    I wanted to just go back for a second. Several of my 
colleagues, and I must say they pretty much asked all the 
questions that particularly I wanted to delve into. But 
speaking particularly of the fact that women have tended to be 
when they have been enrolled in apprenticeships, it has usually 
been at a lower pay scale. And so, we need to move forward with 
that and certainly at IBM, Ms. Noteboom, I mean, there has been 
a dramatic change. And I wanted to just mention that we want to 
continue to work on that so that we are really talking about 
equitable access and certainly diversity as we move forward.
    One of the issues is around alignment with the K-12 system. 
And the fact that in order for students to be able to even 
think about these possibilities, we need counselors, as well, 
who are able to translate that experience for them and that 
means that they have to be exposed as well. I wondered if you 
have seen any examples of that that we might learn from as we 
move forward? How can we better really help our counselors and 
help them to understand how valued they can be in this process 
as we change culture, as we change ideas about this?
    Ms. Foy. I would like to speak to this because I think it 
was a problem that Wisconsin struggled with for many years. And 
we have just taken the same approach with counselors and 
parents as we do with students, which is exposure, information, 
education about the options and the opportunities that result 
from those options. So, lots more information about what kinds 
of apprenticeships are out there, how much money you can make. 
What kind of companies employ apprentices? Some of our, you 
know, namesake companies, Harley Davidson, Snap-On, big 
institutions in our State. But also I think getting them 
onsite. So, we have things called Heavy Metal Tours and STEM 
Day and, you know, Girls in the Trades. We bring the students, 
but we also bring their teachers and their counselors onto our 
campuses and into our businesses and show them what the work 
is.
    Chairwoman Davis. Do you have in Wisconsin and perhaps in 
Maryland, as well, directories? So, not unlike what we have for 
college, university directories to give students information. 
They can go online, they can search, they can do--has that 
developed in Wisconsin? And how helpful has that been?
    Ms. Foy. I think online is very important. A lot of young 
people especially, you know, that is where they live. But there 
is no substitute for seeing for yourself the reality and their 
counselors and their parents are not online as much as young 
people are. So, if you want to reach them, you got to use a lot 
of different formats.
    Chairwoman Davis. Maybe a directory helps, but it is not a 
substitute for that.
    Ms. Foy. Not the silver bullet.
    Chairwoman Davis. Yes, I think the other issue, and Ms. 
Noteboom and Mr. Bustillo as well, I mean, one of the issues 
that we talk about and why this can be successful is because 
you have personnel at the businesses that are there to support 
and to educate really to share their experiences, which can be 
something similar to the young person that they are working 
with. Is there a training program?
    Oh, and Ms. Foxx may say, educating program, in the 
businesses themselves to help people be mentors because it is 
not a natural for everybody. Some people are just very good at 
it. But you can be terrific at what you do, but not be able to 
teach it in the same way. How do you do that?
    Ms. Noteboom. I think we have an excellent ability at IBM 
to showcase our careers because we have the ability to, you 
know, have so many at our company. And what is awesome is our 
IBMers are often going out to their communities and showcasing 
what they do for a living. Many times at the middle school 
level or we have camps where we bring middle schoolers in. We 
also do it at the high school level very regularly. And one of 
the coolest things that we actually showcase to them, coupling 
on what you had said, Dr. Foy, earlier is we have externally 
recognized badges that we give throughout the apprenticeship 
program that can be used for any opportunity the individual 
wants after the apprenticeship.
    Chairwoman Davis. Good to hear. Thank you so much. Are you 
all confident that you already have been able to have a 
cultural shift in this area, how far does this go? What is it 
going to do? Is it going to change our economy the way a lot of 
us think it has the possibility to do? What do you want to--oh, 
my time is up.
    Ms. Noteboom. I think this enables America to close the 
skills gap. It is opening up a huge pathway to employment.
    Chairwoman Davis. Great. Thank you so much. OK, and now we 
are going to turn to Ms. Wild from Pennsylvania.
    Ms. Wild. Thank you, Madam Chair. And because I am 
interested in any answers that the rest of you might give to 
the question that my colleague and the chair just asked, I 
would first open it up to any of you who want to add to that.
    Mr. Bustillo. Sure, thank you. So, I will start with the 
mentorship component first. Very critical in healthcare when we 
started doing this work we realized that that was a huge hole. 
It did not exist. There is preceptorship, similar. So, we 
created a variety of resources, open source resources, 
training. That is a huge component of a successful program and 
model.
    And you are right. Just because you are a good healthcare 
worker, doesn't mean you are a good mentor, right? So that is 
extremely important.
    I think this clearly is something that we are invested in 
because we do see the potential impact that it has on our 
communities around the country. I think we are at the beginning 
stages of this process with nontraditional industries, but I do 
see that there is a huge potential here.
    Ms. Wild. Ms. Robinson or Dr. Foy, any comment on whether 
we can have a cultural shift in this direction?
    Ms. Robinson. I would think we absolutely can. We already 
are seeing that cultural shift and we hope to see that grow, 
especially in light of some of this new language. In terms of 
the mentoring question, I agree with my panelists. I think that 
if we open up that opportunity, some of our most successful 
school systems in Maryland are the ones where we have--it only 
takes one teacher to be quite honest, who is very invested in 
this program and who sees the benefit who is willing to 
schedule the trips and connect with the employers and let those 
students see what is available to them. We would have employers 
stepping up to the plate to be mentors immediately. So, I look 
forward to that continued cultural shift.
    Ms. Wild. Thank you. Because I want to make sure I get to 
my question, I am going to end that there.
    I am one of the 214 lawyers in Congress and I dare say that 
Mr. Norcross' skills as an electrician are far more in demand 
than mine are on a daily basis for most people in this country. 
I do think that this is an incredibly important topic and it is 
why even though I am not part of this subcommittee, I opted to 
come and stay for the questions and answers.
    My biggest concern, at least in my district, which is 
Pennsylvania 7, the Lehigh Valley of Pennsylvania, is that we 
don't seem to be doing enough to get word out to the people who 
could most benefit from apprenticeships in terms of recruiting 
them, in terms of making them aware of what programs are out 
there. So, what I would like to do, Mr. Bustillo, if we could, 
start with you. And did I mispronounce your name?
    Mr. Bustillo. Bustillo is fine.
    Ms. Wild. Bustillo, OK. What outreach strategies have you 
found are the most successful in recruiting people to apply for 
apprenticeships, particularly people in low-income or 
underserved areas who would be a good fit for these programs, 
perhaps, but are just unaware of them?
    Mr. Bustillo. So, I think for us it is really about 
leveraging the preexisting infrastructure we have in terms of 
labor managing partnerships to connect directly with religious 
institutions, community-based organizations, employers, as 
well, because, frankly, most healthcare systems are based in 
communities. So, we have worked directly to leverage that 
infrastructure to get notice out.
    Ms. Wild. OK. Anybody else on that? And also, if you want 
to expand any of you to include how we recruit experienced 
workers who might want or need to change industries because of 
changing demands for a new phase in their career.
    And let me just say labor is a very strong base in my area. 
They wholeheartedly admit that they aren't particularly 
effective at marketing their programs, and without putting the 
burden on them, I just kind of want to figure out how we bring 
more of this to our underserved communities.
    Ms. Noteboom. I would like to expand on what Dr. Foy said 
earlier. I think she said it really well. We, as employers, 
need to be partnering with educators to really make very clear 
the necessary skills to be first in line for jobs because, you 
know, the educators are working with, you know, children and 
young adults regularly and so that partnership is absolutely 
critical. And we have shown that with our P-TECH model.
    Ms. Wild. Dr. Foy?
    Ms. Foy. It think it is just getting the word out and 
talking about it. Congress talking about it, employers talking 
about it, we have to talk about it. There is no single actual 
piece of information that has been more powerful in my 
communications than those compensation numbers and the fact 
that financial aid or student debt is a huge problem right now. 
I think it is the No. 1 reason why people think that anything 
after high school is not going to be for them. That is a zero 
when you are talking about an apprenticeship or a learn-to-earn 
program. So--
    Ms. Wild. We probably need to educate some of our parents, 
too, about passing this on to their children.
    Ms. Foy. Absolutely.
    Ms. Wild. Thank you so much. I yield back.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you very much. And I now recognize 
the distinguished Ranking Member for his closing Statement.
    Before that, I am sorry, I just wanted to mention that 
Members may have some additional questions of you and we ask 
the witnesses to please respond to those questions in writing 
and the hearing record will be held open for 14 days in order 
to receive those responses. There are a few other things in 
boilerplate here, but I think we are going to go ahead and ask 
the ranking member to please give his closing Statement. Thank 
you.
    Mr. Smucker. Thank you, Madam Chair. This is a great 
hearing. I do want to just followup before a Statement. Talk 
about the exposure. You reminded me of a program in my area 
that works extremely well. They call it an externship. I don't 
know if you are all familiar with that. But essentially 
bringing students and guidance counselors in to one of the 
large employers in my area. It might be a factory floor, it 
might be something else. And they spend a few days there and 
literally immerse themselves and experience the kind of work 
that is available there. And that has been really an effective 
program in having guidance counselors and teachers understand 
the opportunities that are there. So, it has been great.
    But, again, I just want to thank each of you for the work 
that you are doing, for taking the time to share your 
experiences and your perspectives and expertise here today. It 
has been a great conversation and really, really important. We 
all know the importance of the opportunity this provides for 
students and families. And so--and for employers. And so, 
again, I want to thank you.
    It is about encouraging a mindset of lifelong learning 
where individuals are continually attaining new skills that 
allow them to be competitive in today's marketplace. So, I do 
appreciate--we got into a little bit of discussion about the 
competency-based approach, which I think is absolutely 
outstanding. And I think it is important, I think, Ms. 
Robinson, you mentioned it is important to develop those 
competencies in partnership with the employers who are going to 
be hiring the apprentice or working with the apprentice in jobs 
in their locations.
    And I also want to mention, again, it is important to keep 
apprenticeships programs flexible enough, particularly to work 
for our small and medium-sized businesses. And I really believe 
if we want to encourage the growth of apprenticeship program in 
the country, we cannot close doors to those who want to 
participate by creating a system that is too difficult to 
navigate. And I have experienced that personally myself.
    So, I am really happy for the productive conversation today 
about how to improve the system. I look forward to continuing 
discussions so that we can get to a place where we can all 
proudly support a bill that we can see signed into law.
    So, thank you, again. And thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chairwoman Davis. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Chair. 
Thank you all very much for being here. It is now time to give 
my closing Statement. It is going to be very brief.
    And I wanted to thank you, again, because many of, I think, 
the ideas that we have had and we know are sort of out there, 
but we are not exactly sure how they have been applied or what 
the issues with the challenges have been, you were able to 
address those very well. And I greatly appreciate that and we 
will look to you for guidance, for your wisdom as we move 
forward. And I want to thank the ranking member for also saying 
how I think we are very ready to go forward with this and move 
through any of the issues that still remain. But I am very 
excited about it personally and I hope we can do that. I think 
we certainly were able to reaffirm today that the Registered 
Apprenticeship system is one of the best strategies we have for 
offering Americans across the country a clear pathway to the 
middle-class.
    And we recognize that we have a chance to put aside 
whatever differences there are, work together to help more 
Americans succeed in our economy by scaling up Registered 
Apprenticeships.
    Our discussion has been on the National Apprenticeship Act, 
of course, of 2020 that we are looking to authorize and this 
really has brought us one step closer I think to that goal. And 
at the core of the provisions is the proposal that will expand 
apprenticeship opportunities through historic Federal and State 
investment and allow employers to more easily take part in the 
Registered Apprenticeship system.
    I think it is our hope and our wish that the investment in 
that at all levels whether it is businesses, whether it is the 
Federal Government and also the State because they play a very 
important role as well, that their investment will be 
worthwhile and actually pay for itself.
    So, we are looking forward to that day and continuing our 
discussion with our colleagues, the stakeholders shaping a 
reauthorization of the National Apprentice Act that gives 
everyone a chance at achieving the American Dream.
    Thank you again so much for being here, for traveling and 
helping to really explain this to all of us.
    The meeting is adjourned. Thank you.
    [Additional submission by Mr. Scott follow:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    [Whereupon, at 12:52 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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