    [House Hearing, 116 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

               RESISTING ANTI-SEMITISIM AND XENOPHOBIA IN EUROPE

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

          SUBCOMMITTEE ON EUROPE, EURASIA, ENERGY, AND THE ENVIRONMENT

                                     OF THE

                          COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                         ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                                JANUARY 29, 2020

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 116-94

                                   __________

            Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

           Available:  http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://
                                docs.house.gov,
                           or http://www.govinfo.gov

                                   __________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    39-455PDF                    WASHINGTON : 2021

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                       ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York, Chairman

    BRAD SHERMAN, California             MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking
    GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York               Member
    ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey		     CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
    GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia         STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
    THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida	     JOE WILSON, South Carolina
    KAREN BASS, California		     SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
    WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts	     TED S. YOHO, Florida
    DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island	     ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
    AMI BERA, California		     LEE ZELDIN, New York
    JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas		     JIM SENSENBRENNER, Wisconsin
    DINA TITUS, Nevada		     ANN WAGNER, Missouri
    ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York          BRIAN MAST, Florida
    TED LIEU, California		     FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida
    SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania	     BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
    DEAN PHILLPS, Minnesota	             JOHN CURTIS, Utah
    ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota		     KEN BUCK, Colorado
    COLIN ALLRED, Texas		     RON WRIGHT, Texas
    ANDY LEVIN, Michigan		     GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
    ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia	     TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
    CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania       GREG PENCE, Indiana
    TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey	     STEVE WATKINS, Kansas
    DAVID TRONE, Maryland		     MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
    JIM COSTA, California
    JUAN VARGAS, California
    VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas

                    Jason Steinbaum, Democrat Staff Director
                   Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director

                                     ------

          Subcommittee on Europe, Eurasia, Energy, and The Environment

                    WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts, Chairman

    BIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia         ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois, Ranking
    GREGORY MEEKS, New York                  Member
    ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey		     JOE WILSON, South Carolina
    THEODORE DEUTCH, Florida	     ANN WAGNER, Missouri
    DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island	     JIM SENSENBRENNER, Wisconsin
    JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas		     FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida
    DINA TITUS, Nevada		     BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
    SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania	     GREG PENCE, Indiana
    DAVID TRONE, Maryland		     RON WRIGHT, Texas
    JIM COSTA, California		     MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
    VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas		     TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee

                        Gabrielle Gould, Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                                   WITNESSES

    Munzer, Dr. Alfred, Holocaust Survivor, Volunteer, United States
      Holocaust Memorial Museum......................................     8
    Lipstadt, Dr. Deborah E., Dorot Professor of Modern Jewish
      History and Holocaust Studies, Tam Institute for Jewish Studies
      and The Department of Religion, Emory University...............    12
    Forman, Mr. Ira, Senior Advisor for Combating Anti-Semitism,
      Human Rights First, Adjunct Professor on Anti-Semitism, Center
      for Jewish Civilization, Georgetown University, Former Special
      Envoy to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism, U.S. Department of
      State..........................................................    37
    Edwards, Ms. Christie J., Acting Head, Tolerance and Non-
      Discrimination, Office for Democratic Institutions and Human
      Rights, Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe....    47
    Williams, Dr. Robert, Deputy Director, International Affairs,
      United States Holocaust Memorial Museum........................    52
    Baker, Rabbi Andrew, Director, International Jewish Affairs,
      American Jewish Committee, Personal Representative,
      Chairperson-in-Office on Combating Anti-Semitism, Organization
      for Security and Cooperation in Europe.........................    61

                                    APPENDIX

    Hearing Notice...................................................    79
    Hearing Minutes..................................................    81
    Hearing Atendance................................................    82

                 ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

    Statement for the record submitted from the Anti-Defamation
      League.........................................................    83
    Photographs submitted from Mr. Munzer............................    92
    Statement for the record submitted from Rabbi Dovid Asher........    91

                RESISTING ANTI-SEMITISM AND XENOPHOBIA IN EUROPE

                          Wednesday, January 29, 2020

                              House of Representatives,
                       Subcommittee on Europe, Eurasia,
                           Energy, and the Environment,
                          Committee on Foreign Affairs,
                                                         Washington, DC

        The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:01 p.m., in
    room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. William R.
    Keating (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
        Mr. Keating. The hearing will come to order.
        The subcommittee is meeting today on a very important
    issue, and we are pleased to have the testimony from very
    important witnesses on resisting anti-Semitism and xenophobia
    in Europe.
        And without objections, all members may have 5 days to
    submit statements, questions, extraneous materials for the
    record subject to the length limitations in the rules.
        I will now make a brief opening statement, then turn it
    over to the ranking member of the full committee for his
    opening statement.
        This week, the world, again, recognizes International
    Holocaust Remembrance Day, a day marking the 75th anniversary
    of the liberation of Auschwitz. Together we mourn the lives
    lost during the Holocaust and honor the stories of victims and
    survivors. Importantly, we also reaffirm our commitment to
    countering all forms of hate and intolerance.
        We are honored to be joined by Dr. Munzer, a Holocaust
    survivor. Anti-Semitism and hate is something we must work
    tirelessly to address in government and across civil society,
    but at its core, we cannot forget the deeply personal nature of
    these harms.
        Thank you for taking the time to join us here today. It is
    important that you and Dr. Lipstadt are here to provide a
    personal and historical perspective on anti-Semitism in Europe
    and around the world. Nazism and fascism led to the State-
    sponsored persecution and mass murder of 6 million Jews, as
    well as millions of other innocent victims. It is essential to
    acknowledge that evil does indeed exist. Anti-Semitism and hate
    did not begin with Adolph Hitler and it did not end after the
    Holocaust.
        Hate speech, discrimination, and violence based on a
    person's identity, be it creed, race, sexual orientation, place
    of origin or otherwise, is a scourge we cannot afford to ignore
    at anytime. It is also important to note that given the focus
    of the subcommittee, our hearing today addresses these trends
    in Europe; however, we are seeing similar concerning trends,
    sadly, right here in the United States. One horrific attack
    occurred just at the end of last month in New York in a Rabbi's
    home during a Hanukkah celebration.
        We have seen a concerning increase in anti-Semitism in
    Europe with 28 percent of European Jews reporting they
    experienced anti-Semitic harassment at least once during the
    last year. We also know these incidents often go unreported, so
    we know the actual number is significantly higher than this.
    And as we know, hate and discrimination do not only affect
    European Jews; reported cases of Islamophobia attacks have also
    increased in every country in Europe. And a recent EU study
    found that 26 percent of LGBT people surveyed have been
    attacked or threatened with violence in the last 5 years.
    Jewish cemeteries have been violated with anti-Semitic symbols
    and fires that have been started near--and intentionally so
    started near refugee camps. These numbers are staggering and
    the stories of these violent actions are heartbreaking.
        Many of us familiar with the poem attributed to Lutheran
    Pastor Martin Niemoller, which has been transcribed in
    different ways, but it is engraved in the entrance of the New
    England Holocaust Museum in my home State of Massachusetts.
    Goes as follows: They came first for the Communists, and I did
    not speak up because I was not a Communist. Then they came for
    the Jews, and I did not speak up because I was not a Jew. Then
    they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak up
    because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the
    Catholics, and I did not speak up because I was a Protestant.
    Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to
    speak up.
        We must do more. This type of violence and hate is
    unacceptable if we want to call ourselves democratic societies.
    Reaffirming our commitment to addressing this is not enough. As
    governments, we must act and we must do the difficult work of
    changing laws and policies as well as the language we use so
    that innocent people are not killed or harassed because of who
    they are. We must also meaningfully engage communities, civic
    leaders, and educators to bring about critical change at the
    grassroots levels.
        That is why I am so pleased to have our second panel
    joining us today. Our experts on that panel have decades of
    experience combating hate from governmental and nongovernmental
    posts, and I look forward to discussing our current efforts and
    what we should do to do better.
        This is a critical time to work together with our partners
    and allies globally. We should share effective solutions,
    coordinate our efforts so that we are putting real action
    behind our rhetoric when we say, never again.
        Accordingly, I am introducing a resolution this week
    recognizing these concerning trends in Europe, and calling on
    all countries to take action together to combat anti-Semitism
    and hate.
        I want to thank our witness for joining us today on this
    important issue.
        I now turn to the ranking member of the committee,
    Representative McCaul.
        Mr. McCaul. I want to thank you, Chairman Keating, for your
    leadership, your passion on this issue, for calling this
    important hearing to examine the rise of anti-Semitism and
    xenophobia in Europe.
        As a son of a World War II veteran, D-Day veteran, a B17
    bombardier who bombed the Nazis 75 years ago to end their anti-
    Semitic regime, it saddens me today that we are still
    struggling with the same issues that the greatest generation
    defeated. I have toured Auschwitz and seen firsthand the
    horrors and evils that my father's generation fought to
    destroy.
        A recent report by the EU said that in Europe today, quote,
    anti-Semitism pervades everyday life. This is a tragedy. It is
    unacceptable, and Congress must lead the charge to addressing
    this scourge. This is an international issue and it requires an
    international solution.
        Our first panel will remind us of the tragedy that can
    result if we do not speak out, as the chairman said, speak out
    and take this problem seriously.
        Al Munzer, who will share his story, we thank you, sir, for
    being here today, a very important story as a survivor of the
    Holocaust. And Deborah Lipstadt, one of the world's leading
    experts on the Holocaust, who herself has been victimized by
    anti-Semitic Holocaust denial, which astounds me that people
    could actual deny it happened. She will help explain the
    importance of ongoing Holocaust education.
        And for our second panel, we will turn to the present day.
    Our witnesses will examine the different strains of anti-
    Semitism in Europe that are combining to create an atmosphere
    where many Jews fear for their safety. Understanding the
    drivers of this hatred is essential to preventing its spread.
        I am grateful to this administration for taking this fight
    seriously. I have met with their special envoy to combat anti-
    Semitism, Elan Carr, who told me about how he travels the world
    working with our partners to identify the best way to fight
    anti-Semitism in their countries. This is a problem in Europe.
    It is also a problem in the United States. And I hope our
    witnesses will offer concrete solutions for how Congress can
    help the administration succeed in fighting this anti-Semitism
    in Europe and the United States.
        This is not a partisan issue in such a partisan time. It is
    not Republican/Democrat. It is American. Back to our core
    values. And earlier this week, the House voted in an
    overwhelming bipartisan fashion to ensure funding for Holocaust
    education in our country.
        I think about my own children today. For them, it seems
    like ancient history. For me, it is one generation away, and it
    is one generation that it is not--it is extinction,
    unfortunately, and it could happen again. And in the words we
    always say, never again. So we are leading by example, I think,
    in the United States with our commitment to understanding the
    poison of anti-Semitism, and now we must help others solidify
    their commitment to this fight.
        So thanks, again, Mr. Chairman for holding this. And I want
    to thank the witnesses for being here today.
        I yield back.
        Mr. Keating. Thank you. Thank you for those words.
        I recognize for a brief statement, Vice Chair
    Representative Spanberger.
        Ms. Spanberger. Thank you to the committee for organizing
    this hearing. And thank you to our witnesses for your
    participation.
        In advance of this hearing, I contacted rabbis and friends
    back home in Virginia. I wanted my questions to be centered in
    their thoughts and shared experiences, because as we talk about
    anti-Semitism in Europe, the deepest impact of anti-Semitism
    facing my constituents are the threats, the crimes, and the
    fear that exists in Virginia.
        I am sure you have seen the images from 2017 when white
    nationalists walked through the streets of Charlottesville, a
    beautiful college town, men with torches shouted ``Jews will
    not replace us,'' and just miles down the road in my district,
    our JCC summer camp was graffitied with anti-Semitic slurs. Our
    high schools and our little leagues have been graffitied with
    language of hate, and a plot to bomb synagogues and attack
    Black churches was uncovered by the FBI a few years ago.
        Central Virginia has one of the oldest Jewish communities
    in the United States, dating back to the 1700's, and in the
    aftermath of a genocide that killed millions of Jews in Europe,
    we are a place where Holocaust survivors settled, raised
    families, and found some level of normalcy after escaping the
    unthinkable and losing everything. We have leaders in our
    community who share their stories of their escapes. The family
    that was warned by a professor, take your children and leave
    Germany, the woman who survived because a kind stranger gave
    her family false papers, and the man who spent months as a
    child living in a potato hole underground after escaping a
    deportation line.
        Central Virginians have advocated for education, seeing it
    as the way to avoid the very rise in anti-Semitism generations
    past had escaped. We have a deeply moving Holocaust museum to
    educate our children, active communities, synagogues, and even
    a regionally known Jewish food festival. And yet as the
    generations of my parents and grandparents worked to root out
    anti-Semitism with community and education, today, we are
    confronted with the stories of my generation and our
    children's.
        High school children in my districts are told, take a
    shower, a dark reference to the gas chambers of concentration
    camps. Young mothers are fearful of having their children's
    religion known. And a rabbi who grew up with the
    incomprehensible knowledge that his great-grandparents and
    other family members had perished en route to a concentration
    camp now must contend with how to lead his family and his
    congregation when his own young children are taunted by
    strangers on the street when wearing a kippah in public.
        The response in Europe and here has been the fortification
    of Jewish spaces, but as another local rabbi noted, the doors
    of houses of worship should be opened to all seekers without
    those inside needing fear, and it keeps me up at night, not
    only the fear about whether I can keep my people safe, but also
    the sadness and frustration about who inevitably gets left out
    on the other side of the locked door.
        Thank you for your participation today.
        I yield back.
        Mr. Keating. Thank you.
        The chair now recognizes, Vice Chair Wagner.
        Mrs. Wagner. I thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I thank the
    Ranking Member Mr. McCaul for this hearing. And I want to thank
    and welcome all of our witnesses today as well.
        We are honored, of course, to be joined for this first
    panel by Dr. Alfred Munzer, a survivor of the Holocaust, one of
    the most unimaginable tragedies in human history, and Dr.
    Lipstadt, who has fought for decades to end the phenomenon of
    Holocaust denialism.
        This Monday marked Holocaust Remembrance Day, and I was
    able to stand in solidarity with St. Louis' Jewish community,
    including six Holocaust survivors. And in a tribute to the 6
    million victims of the Holocaust, the St. Louis Holocaust
    Museum and Learning Center announced its very first expansion
    in 25 years, made possible in part by a Federal grant that we
    were able to work on with them from the National Endowment of
    Humanities. The Jewish community of St. Louis is working to
    ensure the lessons of the Holocaust are never forgotten and to
    give the next generation the tools to end genocide and
    atrocities.
        It grieves and shocks me that anti-Semitism is rising again
    in Europe and the U.S. and, in fact, across the world. The
    United States and its European partners must be leaders in
    examining the root causes of this hateful ideology and ending
    its influence. We remember the millions of victims of genocide
    throughout history, and we commit to working toward the day
    when genocide and mass atrocities crimes are inconceivable.
        As decades pass and new strains of anti-Semitism emerge,
    the testimoneys of survivors, liberators, and witnesses take on
    an even greater significance. So many in our community are
    stepping up to educate the next generation about the horrors of
    the Holocaust. And I believe we in Congress have the same
    responsibility.
        Genocide is preventable. We are very good in the U.S. at
    response on genocide, but genocide is preventable. Anti-
    Semitism and other forms of discrimination can be overcome. We
    are haunted by repeated failures and missed opportunities to
    end these tragedies before they begin. There is more the United
    States can do and must do to help vulnerable communities and
    persecuted people around the world.
        Dr. Munzer and Dr. Lipstadt, thank you for your courage and
    your dedication. Again, we are honored to have you here. I look
    forward to your testimoneys and to the testimoneys of our
    second panel of experts as well.
        I thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I yield back.
        Mr. Keating. Thank you.
        Let me introduce our first panel of witnesses. Dr. Alfred
    Munzer is a Holocaust survivor, as well as a volunteer at the
    United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. We thank you for
    coming here and sharing your story and the story of your
    family. We thank you for your service to this country as a
    veteran who served the United States Air Force. Thank you,
    Doctor.
        Deborah Lipstadt is a Dorot professor of modern Jewish
    history and Holocaust studies at the Tam Institute for Jewish
    Studies and the Department of Religion at Emory University. Dr.
    Lipstadt continues to study and publish on these issues today
    with a recent book entitled, ``Anti-Semitism: Here and Now,'' a
    book that I have read myself. It is released just in the past
    year, and it looks at the history of concerning trends we are
    discussing today.
        I appreciate both of you for being here. Look forward to
    your testimony.
        We set a time of 5 minutes. Without objection, your
    prepared written materials will be made a part of the record.
        I will now go to Dr. Munzer for your statement. Thank you,
    Doctor.
        The microphone. There you go.

    STATEMENT OF DR. ALFRED MUNZER, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR, VOLUNTEER,
                UNITED STATES HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM

        Dr. Munzer. Mr. Chairman, members of the subcommittee, I am
    a survivor of the Holocaust and a volunteer at the U.S.
    Holocaust Memorial Museum, and I appreciate the opportunity to
    share my thoughts as you examine the frightening resurgence of
    anti-Semitism and xenophobia in Europe and elsewhere.
        I was born in the Nazi-occupied Netherlands, and I am only
    able to appear before you because a Dutch-Indonesian family and
    their Indonesian Muslim nanny risked their lives to save a 9-
    month-old Jewish baby. Tole Madna, the Madna family, and Mima
    Saina cared for me and protected me from the Nazis for 3 long
    years. They shared their meager food allowance with me because
    I did not legally exist and was not entitled to ration coupons.
    They made sure I did not ever come near a window for fear that
    passersby might see a very different looking child. I slept in
    Mima's bed, and she kept a knife under her pillow, vowing to
    kill any Nazi who may try to come and get me. But what I
    remember most is being surrounded by love and laughter.
        My sisters, Eva and Leah, did not share my good fortune.
    They had been entrusted to a different family but were betrayed
    and denounced to the Nazis and killed in Auschwitz. They were 7
    and 5, two of 1.5 million children killed in the Holocaust.
        My parents too were deported. My father was liberated 75
    years ago by the 80th U.S. Army, but succumbed 2 months later
    to the effects of starvation and lies buried in the former
    Ebensee concentration camp. My mother survived 12 concentration
    camps, and I was reunited with her in August 1945. In 1958, she
    and I immigrated to the United States, in the hope of leaving
    behind the painful memories of the Holocaust.
        I have remained in close touch with the Madna family.
    People asked Tole Madna why he risked the lives of his family
    to take in a Jewish baby. His response was simple: What else
    was I to do?
        The Holocaust deprived me of the guidance of a father and
    the companionship of two siblings, but worse, the solemn
    promise ``never again'' did not spell an end to anti-Semitism
    or to prejudice and hate directed to anyone perceived as being
    ``the other.''
        I am a physician, and the Holocaust has taught me that hate
    is a communicable disease that can engulf entire nations and
    continents. We may never eliminate hate from every human soul,
    but perhaps we can take measures to prevent its spread. Like
    the fight against AIDS, the campaign against tuberculosis, and
    the drive to prevent malaria, a campaign against hate requires
    a global commitment that includes all segments of society, but
    especially those who occupy any kind of leadership position.
        There is a prayer on the monument of a mass grave in
    Ebensee that reads: To the faithful companions, the heroes, and
    the comrades of a thousand dead who rest here, and countless
    others of all nationalities and every faith, brothers and
    sisters in a common tragic destiny, dedicated by an Italian
    woman who prays that such incredible sacrifice might turn the
    human heart to good.
        Recent events around the world add urgency to the prayer of
    that Italian woman, and it falls to all of us to answer her
    plea to confront hate, to prevent its spread, and to foster a
    world that celebrates our common humanity.
        I have two photographs with me, Mr. Chairman, which I would
    ask to be included in the record. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Munzer follows:]

        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Keating. Thank you, Doctor.
        Dr. Lipstadt.
        Dr. Lipstadt. Thank you.
        Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, thank you for
    having me, and more importantly, thank you for holding this
    hearing.
        Anti-Semitism is a prejudice and, as such, it is an
    irrational sentiments. It is not disliking a Jew; it is
    disliking someone because they are a Jew. The etymology of the
    word ``prejudice'' makes its irrationality quite clear:
    prejudge. You decide on a person's qualities before you even
    meet them. It is unrelated to what the person does. To hate an
    entire group because of the behavior of one person or even a
    group of people makes no sense.
        While anti-Semitism is a prejudice and, as such, shares
    many of the characteristics of prejudice in general, it has
    certain unique characteristics that set it apart from these
    hatreds. First of all, it is rooted in a conspiracy theory. As
    such, the Jew is not just to be loathed, but to be feared. We
    see this notion on the far right. According to the anti-Semite
    on the far right, the Jew is engaged in a conspiracy against
    others, a conspiracy designed to destroy White Christian
    culture by replacing Whites with people of color.
        This is what motivated the murder at Pittsburgh, San Diego,
    Halle. This is what the demonstrators in Charlottesville meant
    when they said, ``Jews will not replace us.''
        Second, anti-Semitism is unique because it comes, not just
    from the right, but also from the left. The anti-Semite on the
    left sees Jews as privileged, White, which, of course, is
    ironic. First of all, there are a substantial number of Jews
    who are not White. The estimate in the United States is 12
    percent of the Jewish community is not White, and well over 50
    percent of the Israeli--Jewish Israelis would not be considered
    White.
        Finally, as mentioned, anti-Semites on the far right
    consider Jews to be decidedly non-Caucasian.
        Today, however, we see it not just from the right and the
    left, as been mentioned by some of the members of the
    committee; we see it from Islamist extremists, and particularly
    in Europe in countries such as Belgium, France, Germany, and
    the U.K., and amongst some sectors of the Muslim community, I
    emphasize some, of course, not all, who were not extremists and
    may never engage in a violent action against Jews, have been
    inculcated with the hatred of Jews.
        Irrespective of whether these charges come from right,
    left, Christian, Muslims, or atheists, they rely on the same
    themes: The nefarious Jew manipulating the scene to his own and
    her own advantage.
        What then can we do about it? If it is irrational, must we
    simply throw up our hands in defeat? I think not, even though
    Jews may not present as typical victims of prejudice. In Halle,
    Germany, there was no police guard outside the synagogue on Yom
    Kippur because the mayor rejected the request. That is not
    taking it seriously.
        In 2017, Sarah Halimi, a retired 65-year-old physician,
    mother of three, was murdered in her apartment by a man who
    shouted ``Allah Akbar'' as he threw her out of the window. Just
    last month in a shocking decision, one decried by President
    Macron, the Paris Court of Appeal decided that he was not--he
    was not criminally responsible because he was too high on
    marijuana to understand what he was doing. He understood enough
    to find the one Jewish resident of the building. He understood
    enough to declare that he had killed the Satan. He did not
    randomly go and kill people; he sought out the Jew. Declaring
    him not responsible, that is not taking it seriously.
        The British Labor Party, exemplifying an attitude on the
    left, repeatedly dismisses the claims made by Jews that they
    have been subjected to anti-Semitism. Jeremy Corbyn may be
    gone, but those around him who exemplify this attitude remain.
    They do not take anti-Semitism seriously.
        One of the greatest results of anti-Semitism is Jews
    increasingly going underground. In the Netherlands, there is a
    town where if you want to know the time of synagogue, you have
    to know somebody. There is no listing for the times, there is
    no listing of the address of the synagogue, there is no
    website. That is fear.
        A few days ago, a professor here in Washington, a Jew, told
    me she had gone to Portugal with her husband on a vacation. She
    did not--she reached for an umbrella, did not take the umbrella
    with the logo of the National Museum of American Jewish History
    in Philadelphia because it had a star on it. That is fear.
    Parents in Europe regularly tell their children not to wear
    their kippots; wear hats. That is fear.
        Friends have asked me whether my recent decision to wear a
    Jewish star is smart. That is fear. Jewish parents in New York,
    Berlin, Brussels are taking their children out of Jewish
    schools because they fear for their safety. That is fear. After
    the Shoah, it is inconceivable that, once again, Jews feel
    safer hiding their Jewish identity.
        This is not healthy for Jews or for the societies in which
    they live. We must fight anti-Semitism for these reasons. All
    genocide begins with words. No genocide ever began with
    actions. But there is an even more important reason: We must do
    so because anti-Semitism is a lethal threat to democracy.
    Wherever anti-Semitism has flourished, democracy has withered.
        Thank you very much.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Lipstadt follows:]

        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Keating. I thank the witnesses.
        I now recognize myself for just a couple of questions, I
    hope.
        Dr. Lipstadt stated that anti-Semitism is not something
    random. Dr. Munzer, you lost two sisters, you lost your father,
    and you were an innocent boy when this all began. If you could,
    if it is all right, could you share how, from the innocence of
    youth, you came to understand that these acts were not random,
    that they were selected, they were targeted? And how did you
    come about understanding that, coming from the standpoint of
    that innocence, to what you know today, and what was important
    to you in that journey?
        Dr. Munzer. Well, I grew up with the Holocaust all around
    me, so I really had very little understanding in terms of
    differentiating what was normal and not normal. You know, I did
    not understand what happened to my sisters. People would tell
    me wonderful stories about them, and I grew up as a 4-year-old,
    5-year-old being a little bit jealous of my sisters. And then I
    overheard people saying, well, such and such a person came back
    and that person did not come back, and I began to understand
    that my sisters had been taken somewhere and did not come back.
        I also remembered the very first experience I had being
    exposed to anti-Semitism, and it was not long after the
    Holocaust. My mother and I were standing in line to go see a
    movie, and there was a man behind us who saw the tattoo, the
    Auschwitz tattoo on my mother's arm. And he said, there is one
    they did not get.
        So even immediately after the Holocaust, there continued to
    be anti-Semitism in the Netherlands, and it is one of the
    reasons why ultimately we came to the United States.
        Mr. Keating. Thank you so much.
        I remember as a young boy one of my neighbor's, the mother
    of two of my playmates, I did not understand some of the
    symptoms that were traumatic stress--I view it now--that she
    was going through. And there was a tattoo that you just
    mentioned similar to that on her arm, and I did not know what
    it meant and asked my parents, and we had a discussion where my
    parents tried to explain to me something that was hard to
    comprehend as a child. Thank you for sharing your story.
        Dr. Lipstadt, you said Holocaust deniers are wolves in
    sheep's clothing spreading hate but attempting to present its
    rational discourse. The statement struck me, and in this sense
    too: The dissemination of this kind of thought, today it is
    aided by social networking, the internet, anonymity that
    surrounds that. Could you share with us some of the things we
    could do to try and counter that, given these new challenges?
        Dr. Lipstadt. It is very hard to control social media, as
    we all well know. When I started to work on Holocaust denial in
    the early 1990's writing my first book, which precipitated the
    lawsuit against me and the trial, if you wanted to receive
    Holocaust denial materials, you had to get them to a P.O. Box
    from a P.O. Box in a plain envelope. Today, all you have to do
    is put on the internet Dr. Munzer comes from the Netherlands.
    If you Google Anne Frank's diary, depending what you put in
    and, in particular, you know, what is going on, but very often
    the second, third--maybe not the second, the third or fourth
    thing that will come up will be a claim that it is a fraud, you
    know, was written after the war, et cetera.
        So it is very hard to control that, but I think the need
    for education is paramount. But it cannot just be education,
    this is what happened to the Jews, because a kid who hears
    anti-Semitism at home or encounters it on the media is going to
    say, oh, they hated them too. It is got to be well thought out
    education about anti-Semitism, well thought out education about
    Holocaust education. I hope--I am very glad that this bill that
    you mentioned passed, but it is got to be thought out
    structurally very, very carefully.
        Mr. Keating. Well, thank you.
        The chair recognizes Ranking Member McCaul.
        Mr. McCaul. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        And, Dr. Munzer, thank you for that powerful testimony. I
    cannot imagine growing up as a child in that kind of
    environment and having--as I mentioned to you, my father's
    generation, we thought it was destroyed. We thought it was over
    after the war. Now, we are seeing this rise in anti-Semitism.
        How do you--I just find it hard to believe, and who would
    subscribe to being a Neo-Nazi after seeing the horrors of what
    the Nazis did and the awful chapter in history that even people
    in Germany today are, you know, I think, from a conscience
    standpoint feel guilty, and they should. But how do you account
    for this rise in anti-Semitism? That is for both of you.
        Dr. Munzer. We left the Netherlands in 1958 to escape anti-
    Semitism and to go to the new world. And we had, you know, this
    is how we looked on the United States, a totally different
    world where people were free of hate. And then we turned on our
    television set, it was our first piece of furniture, actually,
    and we saw little Black kids being beaten up because they
    wanted to go to a particular school, and we realized that
    America was not perfect either. But then, as we saw the
    unfolding of the civil rights movement, we also realized that
    America has the mechanisms to overcome tremendous difficulties,
    social difficulties, and problems.
        And so to this day, even now, even as we see a rise in
    anti-Semitism and acts of hate, I still remain optimistic that
    there are going to be ways to overcome this.
        Mr. McCaul. I appreciate your optimism.
        Dr. Lipstadt, how do you----
        Dr. Lipstadt. I am just reminded, speaking of optimism,
    that the definition of a Jewish optimist is someone who thinks
    things cannot get any worse. So, you know, a Jewish pessimist
    knows that they can and a realist knows that they are.
        I think there are a number of reasons that they do not
    explain it all, but they help us understand. I am not sure
    there are many more anti-Semites in the world today than there
    were 10, 15, 20 years ago, but I think what has happened is the
    moral guardrails that made it unacceptable to say certain
    things, to do certain things are down, so that people feel
    freer to make these comments. I think that is one thing.
        And what happens is then you get, particularly young people
    or not so young people, drawing a swastika, even though they
    may not quite understand what it means. And at the museum--the
    Holocaust museum, they have all sorts of evidence of people who
    even draw it backward, they do not know how to quite draw it,
    which is something they do not need to learn, but--because now
    they know it gets people angry. They know it is an edgy thing
    to do.
        I think we live in a day and age of populism. I do not mean
    by that patriotism. Populism. I am right; you are wrong. And
    the people who are wrong are the--you look for the traditional
    enemy, the people who have long been hated. Remember, anti-
    Semitism is called the longest hatred for a reason. It is in
    the weeds, it is in the atmosphere, and it is so easy to pull
    up.
        And today we have been speaking about some of the
    extremists, certainly the Shoah, the Holocaust, and the
    examples I gave, but there is the dinner party anti-Semite, the
    person who says, oh, we just hired a new associate at our firm,
    he is Jewish, but he is very honest, you know, or as happened
    to me in my first job, a colleague took me out to coffee. I was
    teaching at the University of Washington in Seattle. He told me
    that when--I was the first person at the university there--this
    goes back to the 1970's--to ever teach Jewish studies--that
    when he had been on leave when this whole process of
    establishing that position and hiring me had gone on, and he
    said, when I came back and I learned we had hired a New Yorker,
    a woman, and he paused, and then he said, and a Jew, I thought,
    oh, my God, what have we done? And I was sitting there, I did
    not know what to do, and I kept--to my enduring shame, I did
    not say anything. And he said, but, Deborah, you are the best
    thing to ever happen to this department. You are terrific.
        So, you know, you take the negative and you turn it--you
    think you are turning it to a positive, but it is rooted there
    as well.
        Mr. McCaul. Just a quick question, I have limited time, but
    the--this Holocaust denial, I do not understand it because it
    is so real. Anybody that has been to Auschwitz and seen the
    horrors and the evil there, what is the motivation and what do
    they seek to gain from rewriting history and covering this up?
        Dr. Lipstadt. It is very simple: anti-Semitism. For the
    denier to be right, who has to be wrong? Tens of thousands of
    documents, many of them in the archives here and the library
    here at the museum and other places, the National Archives,
    that lay out what was going to happen and what happened. Who
    else? The survivors. Dr. Munzer, all the other survivors who
    have given their testimony. The bystanders, the people who
    lived in the towns and the villages around the camps who lived
    adjacent to the mass shooting sites who saw the trains going
    and filled with people coming out empty. But thousands of
    historians would all have to be in on the hoax or have been
    duped.
        And finally, the perpetrators. Germany says we did it.
    There has been not one war crimes trial since the end of World
    War II where a perpetrator stood up and said it did not happen.
    He may have said, I did not do it, I could not help it, I was
    following orders, and yet these people come along and say it.
    They are anti-Semites. They do not like if Jews get sympathy,
    and they want to gin up anti-Semitism. So it is an irrational
    thing just like anti-Semitism.
        Mr. McCaul. I appreciate it.
        And I yield back.
        Mr. Keating. Vice Chair Spanberger.
        Ms. Spanberger. Thank you very much.
        Thank you for your compelling and very interesting
    testimony today. Thank you for your presence here.
        Dr. Munzer, I would like to begin with you. You told very
    deeply personal and moving story of your family's experience,
    and I was wondering if you could comment on what you see as the
    particulars of the trends, the changes that we have witnessed
    here in the United States or in Europe over the past few years
    as we are seeing noted in the data an uptick in anti-Semitic
    attacks here and in Europe, what are the on-the-ground things
    that you have noticed that we should be reacting to, that we
    should be denouncing?
        Dr. Munzer. Well, one of the saddest things is that surveys
    have shown, for example, that many, many young kids today or
    high school students do not know what Auschwitz was and do not
    know anything about the Holocaust at all. And I think once you
    forget events, you also forget the lesson. And the Holocaust
    does teach us some very important lessons that we--my family
    paid a tremendous price, and I do not want that to go totally
    to waste. I really want people at least to learn the lessons of
    the Holocaust, what hate can do. That hate eventually can lead
    to mass murder. That is the key lesson and that there are ways
    of avoiding that. Education, I think, is probably the very,
    very first thing that needs to happen.
        Ms. Spanberger. Thank you.
        And, Dr. Lipstadt, you mentioned that anti-Semitism rears
    its head on the right, it rears its head on the left, and there
    becomes a chasm between those two things. My question for you
    today is, could you comment on what you have seen in terms of
    the use of anti-Semitism as a dividing factor, as an othering
    factor, as a political motivator? And I would just note, even
    within the recent weeks with all that has been happening on
    Capitol Hill, there has been gross anti-Semitic tropes used
    against many of our colleagues----
        Dr. Lipstadt. Jew coup, right.
        Ms. Spanberger [continuing]. Conspiratorial and such. And
    could you please comment on how deeply--well, I do not want to
    put words in your mouth, but what that is from a scholar's
    perspective like yours?
        Dr. Lipstadt. You know, on one hand, it is shocking, but it
    is not surprising. When there is tension in a society, it is so
    easy to fall back on the usual scapegoats, whether it is people
    of color, whether it is Jews. You fall back on a scapegoat that
    people will believe.
        There was a story told that said that German Jews used to
    tell this joke during the 1930's, that a Nazi came to a mass
    meeting, Nazi official, and he said the Jews did this and the
    Jews did that, with great vigor, and someone yelled out, and
    the bicycle riders. And he turned, why the bicycle riders? And
    the person said, why the Jews? In other words, it is
    irrational.
        So if we look for a rational explanation, we will not find
    it, but it is so embedded as are some other isms, but certainly
    this has this ancient, ancient history that when--in New York
    State, my home State, when a man who may well have been
    schizophrenic, may well have had a mental illness, but when he
    wanted to do something, he took a machete, drove 32 miles to
    Monsey, and went after Jews. Something in him had been
    embedded. He did not just go out on the street and start
    hitting people or cutting people up. He went to find Jews. This
    man who killed Sara--who threw Sara Halimi, the doctor, out of
    the window in Paris, went to find the one Jewish resident. If
    it is in the society, we have got to address it.
        I want to echo what Dr. Munzer said in terms of education,
    but I, again, want to stress that it is got to be well thought
    out. It cannot be simplistic. It cannot be this is just bad. It
    cannot be an hour or 2 hours at the Holocaust Museum, however
    important that is. That will not do it. We have got to think it
    out. We have got to give teachers the training mechanisms, how
    you address this, so the students get it, especially those
    students who may be hearing it at home or now they do not even
    have to hear it at home; encountering it on the internet.
        Ms. Spanberger. I yield back.
        Mr. Keating. Representative Burchett.
        Mr. Burchett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all so
    much for being here.
        I come from Knoxville, Tennessee, and my daddy, when the
    Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, daddy enlisted in the United
    States Marine Corps and did his service over there on a couple
    islands, one was Peleliu and the other island was Okinawa. And
    after the war, he went to China and fought the Communists. But
    my mama, she lost her brother Roy fighting the Nazis in the
    hedgerow shortly after D-Day. He was too old to go. He
    enlisted. He was heavily educated and he came home. They sent
    him home, and they needed bodies and he went back and, of
    course, he died, I believe, 15 days after the invasion. To the
    day I died, when they play the national anthem, my mama would
    always tear up. I knew she was thinking about her brother Roy.
        And with that, I was fortunate enough to be in the State
    senate in Tennessee with now Congressman Cohen, but he was a
    State senator then and I was a State senator. And he chaired
    the Holocaust Commission and he knew my love of the Jewish
    folks, and he put me on the Holocaust Commission. And I came up
    with the idea of actually building a Holocaust memorial in West
    Knoxville, in Knoxville, Tennessee. And we built that.
        And I will never forget my parents--they are both in heaven
    now--but they were in their 80's, and I was laying sod out 1
    day, and my friend Bernie Bernstein, who is a very prominent
    lawyer in town, had given us the words they put on the stone.
    And I remember this lady came up and said, what are you all
    doing here? And she was not from there. I could tell by her
    accent. And my mama said--see, mama was in her 80's and she was
    about 5-foot nothing, and she said, well, we are building a
    memorial. And the lady said, who is the memorial to? And she
    said, the Jewish folks that died in the Holocaust. And that
    woman, I will never forget, said, we have got enough monuments
    in this town. And my mama, all 5-foot nothing of her, stood up,
    dusted herself off, looked at this woman right in the face, and
    said, not in this park we do not, ma'am. She just--lady moved
    on.
        And my parents were very good people. They were righteous
    people. And I appreciate what you all are doing here and I
    appreciate--we need to let our young folks know that it is not
    just some black and white thing on the history channel and that
    6 million, 6 million people were murdered. And I hear all this
    political correctness that they were eliminated. No, they were
    murdered, they were murdered, and that word needs to be used
    every time. And I thank you all so much and I appreciate your
    passion. I have a lot of passion about that myself. I was
    fortunate enough to go visit Israel this year, and I only wish
    my folks could have been able to do that. That would have been
    something for them.
        And with that, I just had one question, ma'am, maybe, sir,
    maybe both you all want to try to answer this: Which specific
    European countries are you particularly concerned about the
    rise of anti-Semitism? You know, I have heard France. I read
    the news, but you do not know what is getting filtered and what
    is not. And I was just curious what you all think. And sorry
    about my long talk. I have cutoff all the time.
        Dr. Lipstadt. I do not know how you feel about cloning, but
    I would love to clone your mama.
        Mr. Burchett. Yes, ma'am. She was a wonderful woman. If I
    could have her back for 1 minute.
        Dr. Lipstadt. There should be more people like that,
    irrespective of their height.
        Mr. Burchett. Yes, ma'am.
        Dr. Lipstadt. I am going to answer your question and not
    answer your question. Virtually all of them. France is in a
    very, very difficult situation, and we have seen that and we
    have seen it repeatedly. And President Macron has talked about
    it, as have other French officials.
        In Brussels, I was speaking to a woman who is a member of
    the Belgium Parliament, and she told me that she had asked her
    two teenage children not to wear their Jewish star. And she
    said, I was embarrassed to ask them and glad when they agreed
    to put it under their shirts.
        Mr. Burchett. Was this homegrown? Do you think it is
    homegrown or is it imported or is it through the internet?
        Dr. Lipstadt. Some of it is homegrown. Some of it is coming
    from recent arrivals, particularly from Muslim countries, and
    some of it is coming from--increasingly from the right. Halle
    was from the right. Halle, Germany, the attack on Yom Kippur
    was from a rightist. Some of it is coming from Muslims, and
    this is acknowledged. I am part of a Muslim Jewish dialog
    advisory group and we talk about it. There has been an
    inculcation sometimes from Imam, sometimes from YouTube,
    sometimes from newspapers, of antipathy toward Jews.
        So this made someone who will never take a machete, never
    take a bomb, never take--but who sees a Jew on the street and
    knocks off the yamaka. And there is the story of what happened
    in Berlin about a year and a half ago of an Israeli Arab who
    lived in Berlin who had gone back to Haifa for a visit, and one
    of his Jewish friends gave him a kippot, gave him a yamaka, and
    said, but do not wear it in Berlin because you will get beaten
    up. And the young Arab could not believe that, so he decided to
    test it. And he wore it in the streets of Berlin and he was
    attacked, and because he speaks out--he is a native Arabic
    speaker, he understood that the person attacking him was
    someone who spoke with an--Arabic with a heavy Syrian accent
    and beat him up.
        So, you know, you do not have to be Jewish, but--so I
    cannot single out one country. Each one has its problems. And
    the President of Germany just said, we have not addressed it.
    In Germany you have it, again, from the left often expressed as
    an antipathy, a hatred of Israel, and you have it from the
    right, Halle, the alternative for Deutschland, AFD, and others.
        Mr. Burchett. Well, thank you. I have run over my time, but
    if you ever catch me in the hall, I will show you a cool
    picture of my mama. She flew an airplane during the war.
        Dr. Lipstadt. Oh, my God.
        Mr. Burchett. I have bored Ms. Spanberger with this story
    many times, but I am very proud of my mama and daddy. They were
    wonderful people.
        Thank you all so much for being here.
        Mr. Keating. Thank you for sharing that, Representative.
        Representative Wild.
        Ms. Wild. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and to the ranking member
    of this subcommittee, for holding this very important session.
    And thank you, Dr. Munzer and Dr. Lipstadt for what you have
    said.
        I am the proud mother of two Jewish young adults. They were
    raised in a very safe and inclusive community in my district in
    Pennsylvania, perhaps so safe and inclusive that as a young
    mother, I was able to pretend that the specter of anti-Semitism
    would never affect them. Frankly, when their father and I made
    the decision to raise them in the Jewish faith, anti-Semitism
    was the furthest thing from my mind, even though their father
    had told me many stories of his own youth and encountering
    anti-Semitism in his childhood. But I thought we had moved
    beyond that. I was a young and perhaps naive mother. The
    Holocaust was a distant part of history, in my mind and, in
    fact, I became a Jew by choice in solidarity with my husband
    and my children and have never regretted it for a moment, and
    would do it all over again.
        But as I have passed through middle age and, regrettably,
    have probably gotten to the other side of middle age, I find
    that I constantly--I am in fear for my children and for other
    young Jews as they travel around the world, particularly, but,
    of course, here in the United States as well. I am happy to say
    that my children are avid travelers. Their passports have far
    more stamps from different countries than mine ever did at that
    age, but I worry about them constantly and have found myself
    occasionally thinking about whether I should counsel them about
    what to say if they are ever asked if they are Jewish. I have
    not done so, and they have seen me proudly wear my Star of
    David.
        When I was running for Congress, I was counseled by a well-
    meaning local political activist that perhaps I should not wear
    my Star of David in my community, which has a very small number
    of Jews. I took that as a challenge and instead went out and
    bought a larger one, which I wear every single day.
        Having said that, you know, I really--I do believe that the
    only way to fight anti-Semitism is to confront it, to talk
    about it, to educate others, to tell the stories.
        Dr. Munzer, your story is one that I will never forget. And
    the story of the family--the Indonesian family that raised you
    I think causes all of us to want to be braver and more vocal
    and do more than we have done.
        So with all of that said, and I am sorry that I have taken
    so much time, but I felt that it was important to tell you
    that, I come back to your remarks, Dr. Lipstadt, that education
    is a good thing, but we need to do it in a very well thought
    out way. And I would like you to elaborate a little on that.
        As a member also of the Education and Labor Committee, I
    spent a lot of time thinking about what we do in our schools.
    What do we need to do to educate better on this subject?
        Dr. Lipstadt. First of--the reason that I said Holocaust
    education is very important, but it is not a silver bullet,
    because if done, even in a good, well-meaning way, well-
    intentioned, a child can walk away and say, well, the Nazis did
    not like the Jews either. I mean, you see that with other study
    of other isms. They did not like them, I have good reason not
    to like them.
        I think there has to be understanding of the history of
    anti-Semitism, of the way its ubiquitous nature, starting in
    medieval Christianity, moving out of the church, to Karl Marx,
    who hated all religions, to the pseudoscience of eugenics, to
    the Nazis, how it migrates, how it makes no sense. The anti-
    Semite charges. Jews are revolutionaries. They are all
    communists. Jews are Rothschilds and Soros and--last time I
    checked, you cannot be a Communist and a Rothschild at the same
    time. Jews are pushy; they are always trying to get into places
    where they are not wanted. Jews are clannish; they stick
    together. Last time I checked, you cannot be all those things.
    That it is irrational.
        So that the way of doing--it cannot be just, this is a
    horrible thing that happened, but the bigger meaning, how it
    started. The Holocaust would have been impossible--and Dr.
    Munzer knows this, he has volunteered at the museum--the
    Holocaust would have been impossible without the help of
    hundreds of thousands of people. Many of those people active
    helpers, but many of them just looked the other way. And as the
    late Elie Wiesel said, and many others have said, when it comes
    to evil, there is no bystander.
        If you walk out of a building, you see somebody being
    beaten up and you do not do anything--maybe you cannot
    intervene, there is three of them and there is one of you, but
    you do not call for help or something, you are not neutral. You
    have sided with the oppressor.
        Ms. Wild. Thank you very much. Unfortunately, my time is
    up, but I very much appreciate what you have said.
        Mr. Keating. Thank you, Representative.
        We are out of order because Representative Pence has
    yielded and Cicilline, but Representative Deutch chairs the
    Ethics Committee, and so the other members have let him go
    forward, so I thank those members and recognize Representative
    Deutch.
        Mr. Deutch. Thanks. Thanks very much, Chairman Keating. And
    thank you very much to our witnesses for being here.
        I had the honor last week of joining with leaders--a
    delegation led by Speaker Pelosi and leaders from nearly 50
    countries at Yad Vashem to mark 75 years since the liberation
    of Auschwitz. And then we stopped at Auschwitz-Birkenau on our
    way there.
        And the question that I have for both of you, in light of
    the conversation that we are having here is, while it was--it
    was moving to be in a room with all of these world leaders
    pledging--remembering the Holocaust and pledging to fight anti-
    Semitism, it is hard not to feel like it is a distinct moment
    in time and everyone goes back to everything that they are
    doing and does not think so much about this until the next act
    of violence anywhere in the world.
        And I guess, Dr. Lipstadt, the question I have for you is,
    how do we get to a point where there is no tolerance for any
    act of anti-Semitism? How do we--and how do we drive home the
    point that you have made eloquently and lots of us try to make,
    that if there is anti-Semitism in your country, there is a--it
    is your country's core that is really at risk----
        Dr. Lipstadt. Right.
        Mr. Deutch. How do we do that?
        Dr. Lipstadt. There is no easy answer. First of all, I
    think you sit on this committee, this subcommittee of Foreign
    Affairs Committee, I think we have to call out leaders of other
    nations who engage in anti-Semitism, whether directly, overtly,
    or not, even if they are our friends. If they try to rewrite
    history--we see an attempt to rewrite history in Poland, we see
    an attempt to rewrite history in Hungary and Lithuania and
    other places, and Russia about the Soviet Union's--I think we
    have to call them out. And then at the other end of the
    spectrum, not in terms of heads of State in governments, we all
    have to become the unwelcomed guest at the dinner party.
        If someone says something--you know, to paraphrase our
    friends at the TSA at the airport: If you hear something, say
    something. If someone makes a crack, you cannot let it just go
    by. You may not change the mind of the person who made the
    crack, who said this anti-Semitic kind of, oh, I am just
    joking, or racist or whatever it might be, but you have got to
    telegraph the message to the other people at the table,
    especially but not only the young people, that this is not
    acceptable. And so I think that that is another extremely
    important thing.
        And the final point, then, with this I will stop it, we
    also have to understand or other groups--this is not a Jewish
    problem, you know. Rape is not a women's problem. You want to
    stop rape, ask the rapist. You want to stop anti-Semitism, ask
    the anti-Semite. But a few weeks ago, I went up to New York to
    participate in the march and the rally, and as we walked across
    the Brooklyn Bridge, I found myself walking, I get verklempt,
    to use the Saturday Night Live term, not a Yiddish term, next
    to a woman carrying a sign, this Catholic hates anti-Semitism.
    And I thanked her for being there and she said, oh, no, do not
    thank me. It is our problem.
        Mr. Deutch. And she is right. And for every opportunity
    that we have to hear powerful survivors like Dr. Munzer, for
    every opportunity we have to hear that, there are a hundred or
    a thousand people on social media right now----
        Dr. Lipstadt. That is right.
        Mr. Deutch [continuing]. Posting things that there can be
    no--that no one should be able to defend. And I--I guess I
    would finish with this question: As we spend our time thinking
    about the role that technology companies have here, you cannot
    hide behind a claim that we are just putting the information
    out there, when the purpose of your company is a for-profit
    venture and, in fact, you are profiting by anti-Semitism that
    gets--that gets rebroadcast over and over and over again, can
    you?
        Dr. Lipstadt. Not at all. You had testifying here in
    Congress--I do not know what committee, but the head of one of
    those companies who was proudly raising his children as Jews
    saying that when it comes to Holocaust denial, we are not going
    to stop it, we are just going to be neutral because everybody
    has a right to their ideas. The social media--this is beyond my
    expertise, but social media platforms need to take some
    responsibility, and maybe we need to have the urging of
    governmental leaders. When it comes to hatred, there is no
    neutrality, whether it is anti-Semitism, whether it is racism,
    whether it is homophobia, whether it is hatred of Muslims,
    whatever. There is no neutrality when it is hatred.
        Mr. Deutch. Mr. Chairman, if I may, it is an accurate point
    to say that everyone has the right to have whatever views they
    hold.
        Dr. Lipstadt. Absolutely.
        Mr. Deutch. That said, if anyone in this room were starting
    a business right now, and part of the decision at the outset of
    that new venture was to decide whether there should be some
    part of it devoted to the espousing of hatred and racism and
    anti-Semitism, everyone here would say, nope, that cannot be a
    part of what we are doing, and it shouldn't be a part and it
    shouldn't be tolerated. And I agree with you that it will
    continue until, I am afraid, until this Congress acts to stop
    it.
        And I yield back. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Keating. Representative Pence.
        Mr. Pence. Thank you, Chairman Keating, for bringing
    together this hearing.
        And thank you, Dr. Munzer and Dr. Lipstadt, for being here.
    I am a Catholic who hates anti-Semitism. It is part of the
    Pence family business, by the way, OK.
        I am going to go off something that Dr. Lipstadt said, but,
    Dr. Munzer, maybe you can weigh in on this one too. I am
    talking about education and the place--let me ask you where
    you--where higher education was in educating anti-Semitism in
    this country and where it is today?
        Dr. Lipstadt. We see a real problem on many campuses. Not
    all campuses, not every campus is a hotbed of anti-Semitism,
    but what we have seen on campuses primarily the way it
    expresses itself there is an antipathy toward Israel. And I am
    not talking about criticism of Israeli policies. No intelligent
    person would think that criticism of Israeli policies
    constitutes anti-Semitism. You want to read criticism of
    Israeli policy? Read Haaretz or go to the Knesset if you have
    criticism of the policies. But it is holding Israel to a
    different standard. It is attributing Israel's successes or
    achievements to anti-Semitic--``Well, they control the media.
    They control the press. They do not allow any criticism.'' It
    is an inherited hatred that is not for everyone but often has
    anti-Semitism at its core. And that has become a real problem
    on campus.
        Emory, which is my university, I have been there many
    years, is essentially a fairly apolitical campus, and the
    Jewish students who wear kippot or openly identify have had
    terrific experiences, but in this past year, they have begun to
    hear anti-Semitic cracks, to see those kind of things.
        And the people who do that, they are not the faculty, but
    the students feel they have gotten permission to say that.
        Mr. Pence. Where did that permission come from?
        Dr. Lipstadt. Well, sometimes it will come from a faculty
    member, and sometimes it will come from the larger society that
    this kind of thing is OK. It is those moral guardrails that I
    was talking about. ``The moral guardrails are down, and I can
    make that kind of crack.'' It is very disturbing, and I think
    it needs to be seriously addressed.
        You also have another problem on certain campuses, and
    there are, you know, thousands of campuses in the United
    States. There are people who are in charge of diversity
    programs, provosts or whatever, or just the people in the
    administration who do not get it. And I am not saying that they
    are doing this nefariously, but it is hard for them to grasp
    that a Jewish student who looks privileged, who may not be
    privileged but looks to them as White, looks to them as--you
    know, comes from a stable home, has advantages. When they come
    in and say, you know, ``I have been subjected to an anti-
    Semitic barrage or an anti-Semitic crack by a student in my
    dorm,'' or whatever it is, it is often hard for them to grasp
    that this person is the object of prejudice because their view
    of the person is going to be the object of prejudice does not
    look like this person.
        And I am very careful about making analogies to the
    Holocaust. Today is not the 1930's. When I was once at the
    Holocaust Museum, a survivor told me the story of
    Kristallnacht, November 1938. He went to a Jewish school, a
    boarding school because the school in his town, he could not go
    to anymore. All the teachers were Nazis, and he was getting
    terrible treatment. So his parents sent him to a boarding
    school, a Jewish boarding school in a larger town.
        November 1938. The synagogue next door, next to the school
    is burning. The teachers come in and yell: Get out, get out.
        And these little kids, 9, 10, 11 years old, go running out
    in their pajamas, and they say to one another: Well, where
    should we go?
        And one of them says, well, you know, like Mrs. Rogers told
    her son Fred, ``Find the helpers.'' They said we are going to
    go to the policeman. So they ran up to the policeman, and he
    looked at them and sneered and said, ``I do not take care of
    Jewish children,'' and sent them away. And, finally, they found
    some Jews on the street to help them.
        Today is not that day. Today we have--I am sitting here in
    the Congress of the United States with Dr. Munzer, a survivor
    of the Holocaust, giving testimony about anti-Semitism. We hear
    it being addressed seriously from so many different quarters.
    So today is not that day, but there are enough forces on the
    right and on the left who have given it quarter that it
    shouldn't have.
        Mr. Pence. Can Dr. Munzer answer that question, please?
        Mr. Keating. Doctor.
        Dr. Munzer. By the same token, we are talking about
    education, through the Holocaust Museum, I have had the
    opportunity to speak, you know, to dozens or hundreds of groups
    by now of high school students, and I am absolutely struck, you
    know, how receptive they are to the message, to learning the
    history of the Holocaust and learning the lessons.
        Last year, I was in a small town in Arkansas, Morrilton,
    Arkansas, and I spoke to several thousand students over several
    days. I really wasn't sure whether they would get the message.
    And then, first of all, they asked some wonderful questions.
    Even though this was a huge group, it was well organized. And
    then I got a stack of letters which very much made it clear
    that they got the message. One of them was very simple. They
    said: You know, we had a bullying problem in our school, and
    now, thanks to you, it is much better.
        Mr. Pence. Thank you.
        Mr. Keating. Representative Cicilline.
        Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and the ranking
    member for calling this very important hearing, and it is a
    great honor to hear both from Dr. Munzer and Dr. Lipstadt, and
    thank you for being here.
        Dr. Munzer, thank you for sharing your story, and I think
    it is incredibly important that people all over the world
    continue to hear directly from Holocaust survivors and those
    who have been impacted by anti-Semitism today. We know that
    today's children are the last generation that will have the
    opportunity to see and hear for themselves directly from
    survivors, and it is our responsibility as a result to be
    certain that we keep your voice alive and the voices of other
    survivors to share your story and, most importantly, for all of
    us to absorb the lessons of the Holocaust so that we can work
    together to prevent future instances of hate and bigotry and
    devastating brutality.
        But I think as your testimony, both of your testimoneys,
    reveal, this is a scary time for Jews all over the world. And
    despite my Italian last name, I am Jewish. I think we have seen
    the rise of neo-Nazis and white supremacist movements partly
    being fueled by the ability to communicate online and a rise in
    anti-Semitic attacks in the United States and around the world
    and of course, particularly in Europe.
        And what I am particularly interested in, Dr. Lipstadt, we
    have a Holocaust--what was a Holocaust museum in Rhode Island,
    and we changed it into a Holocaust education center because we
    recognized that part of the importance of teaching the lessons
    of the Holocaust was to make sure that people understood the
    history and the horrific murder of millions of Jews and others
    but also to learn of the current dangers of bigotry and hatred
    and intolerance.
        And so it became really an education center, and we have in
    Rhode Island, I am proud to say, mandatory Holocaust education
    in the public schools. So I am curious to know what other kind
    of educational lessons we should learn to make education about
    the Holocaust useful in terms of not only teaching people
    history but making sure we do not repeat it and whether or not
    there are examples that you think we should look to and what
    role Congress might play in promoting that kind of education to
    prevent a future example of that kind of----
        Dr. Lipstadt. I think we just heard an example from Dr.
    Munzer of his experience in the small town in Arkansas. When
    someone can speak in the first-person singular, ``This is my
    story, this is what happened to me,'' it has a tremendous
    impact. I am in residence at the Holocaust Museum this year as
    a Senior Research Fellow, and sometimes, when I walk through
    the lobby, there is a desk, Talk to a Survivor, and you are
    often sitting there. And I watch--I stand in a little off in
    the corner, but I watch young people of all colors, all faiths,
    all ages, middle school, high school, hanging on every word
    that is being said.
        And when I bring a survivor to my class, when I first
    started teaching, I would decide, did I want a survivor who was
    in a camp? Did I want a survivor who was hiding? Now I just
    want someone who is vigorous enough to be able to come and
    speak.
        So that first-person singular is so important. I have
    cousins who grew up in Cincinnati, which was--even Ohio was
    still a Southern town, and they are about 15 years older than I
    am. I came from a large family. And they grew up knowing--one
    of the people who worked for their father had been born a slave
    on a plantation. And so they grew up knowing his story. And 15
    years older than I am, slavery has a different resonance
    because they have heard the first-person singular.
        I wish all survivors, as we say in Jewish tradition, 120
    years, the lifespan of Moses, but soon that will go away. And I
    think what the museum is doing and the education program there
    is something, as you begin to craft these educational programs,
    as you give advice, you know, to different--whether it is on
    the State level or the national level that those lessons, it is
    not a simple thing, ``Just bring them to the Holocaust
    Museum.'' It is got to be more than that.
        Mr. Cicilline. The other question I have is I think one of
    the other challenges we face is the ability to quickly and in a
    very profound way disseminate false information over the
    internet and the use of social media, which compounds, I think,
    this rise in anti-Semitism because it is just easier to
    transmit false hate speech and information to millions and
    millions of people, you know, with the stroke of--you know, one
    stroke of a keyboard. And I am wondering what you see, you
    know.
        I am in the midst of an antitrust investigation of a big
    large technology platforms, and they have enormous market
    power. But their failure to in any meaningful way curate what
    gets put on a platform and shared broadly and, in fact, some of
    the most contentious hate speech engenders the biggest reaction
    from consumers on the internet.
        Do you think that these platforms have a greater
    responsibility to manage or curate particularly hate speech,
    which is on these platforms and being disseminated and
    contributing significantly, in my view, to the rise of anti-
    Semitism?
        Dr. Lipstadt. Yes. Very simply, they have a big
    responsibility. They have the power--look, I am bringing coals
    to Newcastle telling you this--you know this from your work far
    better than I. They have a tremendous responsibility, and when
    it comes to hate, irrespective of who the object of the hate
    is, there is no neutrality. There is no neutrality. And to say,
    ``Well, we are just a platform and anything goes,'' it is not--
    you know, this is not an issue of freedom of speech. Everyone
    has the right to, you know, as the Brits say, make an arse of
    themselves, but this is much more than that. This is
    engendering, inculcating, and it has a snowball effect, a
    tremendous snowball effect.
        Mr. Cicilline. Thank you very much.
        I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Keating. Representative Meeks.
        Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Thank you, first, for your testimony. It is tremendously
    important to hear from you, Dr. Munzer, your life story, Dr.
    Lipstadt, your understanding and ability to articulate the
    truth of what has taken place and the hurt that hate causes,
    that anti-Semitism causes. I have been sitting hearing and
    listening and looking and watching the audience, especially Dr.
    Munzer, as you gave your testimony. I could see the hurt in
    most of just about anybody in the audience.
        And for me, Dr. Lipstadt, you said that hatred is a threat
    to democracy. I agree with that, but I think it is more than
    that. I think hate is a threat to humanity, to all of us
    because that is what this is. It affects each and every
    individual no matter where you come from, no matter what your
    religious belief, no matter what your ethnicity is, and we have
    got to say something about it.
        I am a firm believer and follower--you talk about the civil
    rights movement and Dr. King and, you know, a number of his
    quotes and words, and he says: Our lives begin to end the day
    we become silent about things that matter. Anti-Semitism,
    hatred, it matters. And we have got to stand up and speak out
    about it.
        And for me, I wanted to cancel all the meetings that I had
    because I thought I had to be here because one of the things
    that I know as an African American, and given the history that
    you talked about here, one of the things I wanted to make sure
    when we are talking about civil rights and other issues, I
    think it is necessary for people who do not look like me to be
    on these microphones talking about it or to be in the audience.
    So this should not be a situation where it is just individuals
    of Jewish heritage. It has got to be something where all of us
    are involved and all of us stand up.
        You know, it just seems to me the trouble that we are
    having today in the world, whether we are talking about Europe
    or the United States, we are thinking that certain speech is--
    you talked about freedom of speech. Well, to me, the day that
    hate speech becomes acceptable, freedom of speech ends because
    that is a danger to all of us. And so we have got to stand up
    and speak out about it. Dr. King also said, you know, people
    are not going to remember the actions of our enemies but the
    silence of our friends. So we have got to stand up.
        I think I have an obligation whenever I see or hear of the
    opportunity to talk about fighting anti-Semitism, I have got to
    make sure, but not only in places like this, because you are
    right. If I am in a local meeting and I hear somebody that
    utters something that is anti-Semitic, I have an obligation to
    say: That is not appropriate. You cannot do that. That is hate.
        I know when I talk about racism, I thought the same--you
    know, the same thing, and that is what this is all about. And I
    am concerned, you know. I like your optimism. I think that
    optimists--I am optimistic also. I think that this is--the
    United States is still--we have been able to overcome a lot,
    and we have still got a lot to overcome, but we will do that.
        But I do get concerned when I look at Europe and I look at
    the United States and when I see governments accepting and/or
    even to some degree running on anti-Semitic, you know, they do
    it in ways that try not to be pronounced, but everyone
    understands those little things. Whether you are a Member of
    Congress, whether you are a member of a Parliament someplace
    else, those things that we have got to make sure that we stand
    up and we talk about.
        So I guess I am almost out of time, but I just feel
    passionate and concerned, concerned. We just marched over the
    bridge together, over the Brooklyn Bridge walking together with
    my friend, Michael Miller, in New York. I felt honored to be
    there and honored to see the number of good people there
    because I truly believe when good people are talking loudly, I
    do not think that necessarily we are going to be able to in one
    phase end folks who have hatred in their heart, but I do want
    to silence them. I do not want them to feel that they can be
    free to talk and say anti-Semitic remarks and not going to be
    scolded about it.
        Dr. Lipstadt. We live in a day and age where haters have
    been emboldened, and from your remarks, I would say we have to
    embolden the good people.
        Mr. Meeks. That is exactly right. So, again, I just want to
    thank you for being here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for
    conducting this hearing and having it and keeping it focused
    because we can never sit back and take it easy and take things
    for granted because if we do, we allow history to repeat
    itself, and that is one thing that I think that we all have an
    obligation is to make sure the ugly part of history does not
    have the opportunity to repeat itself. And as soon as we see
    it, we have got to stamp it out. And by you doing this hearing,
    we are trying to stamp it out. Thank you, and I yield back.
        Mr. Keating. Thank you for your words.
        Representative Costa.
        Mr. Costa. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I want to
    thank those witnesses who testified today. Dr. Lipstadt and Dr.
    Munzer, your testimony, I think, is as relative today as it was
    75 years ago. As we recognized the anniversary of the
    liberation of Auschwitz, Monday I was honored to participate at
    the United Nations on that anniversary with the Secretary
    General and Ambassadors of Israel and Germany and other U.N.
    nations to recount what took place 75 years ago.
        And I am not sure that my comments will add anything to
    what has already been discussed except that I think, Dr.
    Lipstadt, you, I think, for all of us pointed out what is clear
    and evident, that anti-Semitism at its very root is hate. And
    hate, sadly, has been a part of man's history from the very
    beginning. I am hesitant to say it is a part of nature, our
    human nature, but it seems to have been a pattern, certainly.
        I note that, you know, what took place during the Holocaust
    was predated by the Armenian genocide, the first genocide in
    the 20th century, which was predated by horrific acts in the
    19th and the 18th century. And you can go back--I am a student
    of U.S. and world history, but to the Inquisition.
        The Secretary General of the United Nations, Antonio
    Gutierrez, in his comments marked by the dark history in
    Portugal when some of the most important members of the
    community who were Jewish were asked to either--to leave during
    that inquisition, that time period with Spain. They were
    rivals, but they had to live together, sort of, or to convert,
    which some of them did--my familyis a reflection of that; we
    are Marrano--or to go underground, and the Jews in Portugal did
    all of the above. Some left, some converted, and some went
    underground.
        But it gets back to hate. And I have got a fellow who is a
    professor in my office who has got a very interesting book that
    he wrote last year called ``Hitler's American Friends: The
    Third Reich Supporters of the United States during the
    1930's.'' Interesting. Interesting prominent people in America
    in the 1930's, people who had investments in Nazi Germany.
        And the story that you told, Dr. Munzer, about your own
    personal experience, I had a dear friend whose mother was
    Dutch, and she wrote an interesting short story about the
    bicycle paths, these Dutch women who would ferry Jewish babies.
    And as the Nazi soldiers would pull them aside as they were off
    their bicycle with the little baby, they would, with guns
    pointed, urge them to demonstrate that that was their child by
    seeing whether or not those women could nurse the child. Part
    of your story, Dr. Munzer.
        And so I think when we talk about all of these points in
    history that go back thousands of years, it gets back to hate.
    How do we combat hate? Dr. King said, you know, hate can only
    be overcome by love, to paraphrase him. We have got to figure
    out a better way to deal with it. Or in that great play in
    South Pacific: You have got to be taught, taught very carefully
    to hate.
        And, sadly, history has indicated time and time again we
    are very good at teaching hate. You can see that in the 5,000
    or more radicals that left Europe to join Isis in the last 2
    years, to be a part of that hate.
        So we must combine all of our collective resources, I
    believe, Mr. Chairman, and the efforts of this subcommittee and
    the efforts of those of you who have been so engaged to try to
    do in every possible way to overcome that hate. Thank you very
    much, and I have exceeded my time.
        Mr. Keating. Representative Trone.
        Mr. Trone. Thank you, Chairman. Certainly the hate that
    Congressman Costa speaks about has touched, you know, so many,
    so many people across the world now. And I mean, members of
    this panel ourselves, my oldest daughter received her Hebrew
    name at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh where we had
    the atrocity.
        And you know, so we have kind of worked to make it a point
    that everybody has got to hear these stories as long as they
    possibly can. And the work you are doing, Dr. Munzer, is just,
    so important for so many people as we move forward and try not
    to let it slip away. Our staff is going to be at the museum on
    Monday, and they are going to be touring there just so we all
    make sure we have a direct appreciation.
        Your story is such a powerful one and, then again, the
    story of an immigrant that reached the top of your profession,
    another powerful story that speaks to the diversity and how
    awesome it is for America to create the country that we have.
    But you know, as you testified, those personal interactions
    with the visitors at the Holocaust Museum are so important to
    really understand the horrors of what took place.
        Has anybody in Europe at different museums--and I visited a
    number throughout Europe. Do they have anything where folks are
    there to share those personal stories and have an opportunity
    for, for personal interaction?
        Dr. Munzer. I am not sure.
        Dr. Lipstadt. Yes. There are a number of museums. Certainly
    in England, the Holocaust Educational Trust, and England is now
    building a memorial which will have an educational program.
    There is Memorial De La Shoah in France, in Paris. There are
    other examples. Nothing of the significance, I think, and the
    gravitas that you have of the Holocaust Museum located a few
    steps from the National Mall, located within sight. I look out
    my window, and I can see the Jefferson Memorial. I can see the
    Washington Monument.
        But there are places. There are places, and they need
    support. The Holocaust--the Auschwitz Museum needs support. It
    is being pressured by the government to sort of shift the story
    a little by the Polish Government. There are places, but I
    think, again, as Dr. Munzer has so exemplified, that ability to
    hear the story told in the first-person singular. No professor,
    however scintillating they may be and however compelling they
    may be, can match that first-person singular.
        Mr. Trone. Agreed. As we look at extremist anti-Semitic
    rhetoric, it is entering everywhere in Europe, particularly
    mainstream politics. What can a civil society and other elected
    officials like ourselves or multi, national organizations, what
    can we do to help hold our public officials accountable for
    this rhetoric?
        Dr. Munzer. Well, one of the programs that I was involved
    with and exposed to was a few years ago was a State Department-
    run program that brings students from overseas to the United
    States to learn what it is to live in a multifaith society. The
    specific experience I had was with a group of students from
    Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world. These
    students had never met anyone who was Jewish. They had been
    exposed to a lot of anti-Semitism, actually.
        And I told them my life story with photographs, and at the
    very end, I said: You know, one memory I have of Mima Saina,
    the nanny who take care of me is that she used to sing a
    lullaby to me, and it was called Nina Bobo in Indonesian.
        And the entire group of about 40 students started singing
    it unison. And after that, these students embraced me, hugged
    me and said: You know, we are family. I retell that story very
    frequently because I think that is the ultimate message is to
    get across the idea that we are all part of one human family.
        Mr. Trone. I think it is absolutely crucial. I have about
    six mosques in my district, and I speak to them on Friday
    afternoon after prayers, and we always talk about the fact that
    they are now being singled out in a lot of ways also, and this
    is all part of a continuing of hate crimes and they need to
    hear that we are with them. And after the incident in
    Pittsburgh they came to our temple, and they were with us. And
    that example is just so crucial that we all--we all stand
    together. Thank you.
        Mr. Keating. Thank you.
        Now, Representative Frankel is not a member of the
    committee, heard about this hearing, and rearranged her whole
    schedule today and has joined us and certainly always welcome
    here.
        Representative Frankel.
        Ms. Frankel. Thank you for allowing me to participate, and
    thank you to our speakers today, honored to have you here.
        I am going to ask all my questions at once, and if you are
    able to answer, I hope you do.
        No. 1 is, could you assess the European governments'
    response to the rise in anti-Semitism? Are they sharing data
    with each other? Is this being addressed at the EU level? And
    what, if anything, can the U.S. Government do in this regard?
    There we go.
        Dr. Lipstadt. Well, let me say that you are going to have
    witnesses who follow us who probably are much----
        Ms. Frankel. OK. Well, I am happy to--you know, I am going
    to--actually, just to let you know. I am going to step out for
    a quick meeting, but I am going to come back, and if you want
    to wait----
        Dr. Lipstadt. They know in the weeds of that, but I will
    only say one thing.
        Ms. Frankel. OK.
        Dr. Lipstadt. And that I think our government has to call
    to account both those who are friends and those with whom we
    are not so friendly. When they begin to play with history, it
    is a steady slope downwards. They are playing with history and
    saying: We were not responsible. We did not do. We did not--
    whatever it might be.
        It is dangerous. But about the specifics of the different
    governments, I think the next panel is much better equipped.
        Ms. Frankel. All right. Well, I will tell you what, Mr.
    Keating. Let me yield back. I am going to step out for a quick
    meeting, and then I am going to come back, and the panel--where
    is the next panel? You heard my question. Be thinking it. In
    fact, I will be right back.
        Mr. Keating. Thank you.
        Ms. Frankel. Thank you.
        Mr. Keating. I want to thank our witnesses. I just--you
    know, your testimony had the effect--I have been through many
    hearings. Seldom have I heard my colleagues open up and share
    so much of themselves, their stories as I have today, and I
    think that was because of your testimony and your presence
    here. It is deeply appreciated. It is very important. Thank you
    for being here, and we will all work on this together, not just
    in Europe but in our own country, in our own neighborhoods, in
    our own schools, and at our own dinner tables.
        Dr. Lipstadt. Thank you.
        Mr. Keating. Thank you both.
        As our first panel leaves, if we could assemble our second
    panel, and we will have people coming in and going. We had a
    special member briefing on the coronavirus in the midst of
    this, so you will see people coming in and coming out, but we
    will take a few moments to recess and assemble the second
    panel.
        [Recess.]
        Mr. Keating. Mr. Ira Forman is a senior advisor for
    combating anti-Semitism at Human Rights First, and an adjunct
    professor on anti-Semitism with the Center for Jewish
    Civilization at Georgetown University. Thank you for being
    here.
        Ms. Christie Edwards is the acting head of the Department
    on Tolerance and Non-Discrimination in the Office for
    Democratic Institutions and Human Rights at the Organization
    for Security and Cooperation in Europe. Thank you so much for
    being here as well.
        Dr. Robert Williams is the deputy director of international
    affairs at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. We have
    heard a great deal from the first panel about the museum. I
    think, as most Members of Congress, have been there. It is one
    of the most moving experiences people will have in their life.
        Rabbi Andrew Baker is director of international Jewish
    affairs at the American Jewish Committee as well as the
    personal representative of the Chairperson-in-Office on
    Combating Anti-Semitism at the Organization for Security and
    Cooperation in Europe. Thank you so much for being here. We
    appreciate your time.
        I think there were questions raised. A lot of the first
    questioning for the first panel was unique for hearings. I
    think there was a lot of people sharing their own experiences,
    but many of the questions they have as their time ran out could
    be appropriately addressed with you as a panel, and I am
    looking forward to that.
        I will go with Mr. Forman for your statement. Thank you
    very much. We will set a time as we do with the first 5 minutes
    for the opening statements. Anything else with written
    statements can be for the record. Mr. Forman.

      STATEMENT OF IRA FORMAN, SENIOR ADVISOR FOR COMBATING ANTI-
        SEMITISM, HUMAN RIGHTS FIRST, ADJUNCT PROFESSOR ON ANTI-
         SEMITISM, CENTER FOR JEWISH CIVILIZATION, GEORGETOWN
      UNIVERSITY, FORMER SPECIAL ENVOY TO MONITOR AND COMBAT ANTI-
                   SEMITISM, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATe

        Mr. Forman. Thank you, Chairman Keating, and members of the
    subcommittee for the opportunity to appear today. I am
    especially appreciative that the subcommittee is holding this
    hearing. Shining this type of congressional spotlight on the
    problems is exactly what international political actors who
    dabble in anti-Semitism fear the most. I would hazard a guess
    that no one on these two panels would disagree with the
    statement that anti-Semitism has increased worldwide in recent
    years. There is lots of data to prove this. Moreover, if one
    talks to Jewish community leaders in any European country, you
    will get the same answer.
        Of course, in the U.S., we cannot ignore the spike in
    violence, anti-Semitic violence in the last few months. It is a
    wakeup call for the American Jewish community and for the
    United States. Yet, for all of our problems here, the smaller
    Jewish communities in Europe I believe face much more immediate
    and existential threats from anti-Semitism.
        To effectively fight anti-Semitism, we must first
    understand its nature and where in society it is located. This
    is no simple task. Today's anti-Semitism takes multiple forms
    and mutates. In my written testimony, I cite three European
    countries, Hungary, France, U.K. as examples of different forms
    of anti-Semitism going from the extreme right to the extreme
    left.
        In my remarks today, I would like to focus briefly on anti-
    Semitism in Hungary. Anti-Semitism in Hungary is a far right
    nationalist phenomenon, xenophobic. Prime Minister Orban has
    said on numerous occasions that Hungary has U.S. tolerance for
    anti-Semitism and he has strengthened the relationship with
    Israel's government. Yet Jewish community leaders are deeply
    concerned about a number of government activities.
        The first set of actions are what have to do with
    historical memory, the unwillingness to truthfully deal with
    historical Hungarian anti-Semitism, especially during the
    Holocaust. The first example is a Holocaust museum they are
    developing called the House of Fates. And yet, inexplicably,
    they insist on naming a well-known Holocaust distorter to
    develop the museum's program. They also over the past few years
    have honored numerous figures, political and even literary,
    from the World War II era that are deeply anti-Semitic and
    responsible for Jewish deaths.
        The second set of problems are what I call dog whistle
    anti-Semitism. Prime Minister Orban's party has employed subtle
    but clear Nazi-era anti-Semitic memes: the laughing Jew, the
    Nazi meme of the Jewish puppet master. In fact, Orban's speech
    in the parliamentary elections in 2018 were so rife with vile,
    classic, anti-Semitic language that a National Review writer
    who had been sympathetic to the Fidesz government said: It
    reads like something right out of the protocols of the Elders
    of Zion.
        So what do we do? Clearly, there are no silver bullets. We
    have to be doing multiple things. If you talk to experts, they
    talk about the importance for security for Jewish communities
    but also other endangered communities. We have to deal with
    hate crime data--and I am sure our OSCE representative will
    talk more about this--collect it better.
        We talked about education. Education will be crucial, and
    social media and dealing with social media. But one thing I
    want to mention here that we cannot do, and that is let anti-
    Semitism become just another partisan wedge issue. If we do, we
    will lose this battle. We need bipartisanship on this issue.
        I recommend a number of things in my testimony. I just want
    to mention that the--I want to ask you to urge your Senate
    colleagues to pass legislation similar to H.R. 221, which
    raises the status of the special envoy to monitor and combat
    anti-Semitism at the State Department, to the Ambassadorial
    level. Doing that, as well as making sure the office has enough
    resources, is critical at this time.
        In conclusion, I would like to paraphrase the comments of
    one French leader I met when I visited at the State Department
    who told me, in the aftermath of violent incidents that hit his
    community, he said, this is not ultimately about us. It is not
    about the Jews. The Jewish community may be the first group
    that faces this type of hate, but we will not be the last. This
    is about the very values of the French republic, the very
    values that sustain democracy.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Forman follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Keating. Thank you, Mr. Forman.
        Ms. Edwards.

     STATEMENT OF CHRISTIE J. EDWARDS, ACTING HEAD, TOLERANCE AND
      NON-DISCRIMINATION, OFFICE FOR DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS AND
      HUMAN RIGHTS, ORGANIZATION FOR SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN
                                 EUROPE

        Ms. Edwards. Chairman Keating, distinguished members, thank
    you so much for the opportunity to join you today. I am coming
    from the Warsaw-based Office for Democratic Institutions and
    Human Rights for the Organization for the Security and
    Cooperation in Europe.
        And my office provides support, assistance, and expertise
    to participating States and a civil society promoting
    democracy, rule of law, human rights, and tolerance and
    nondiscrimination.
        OSCE participating States recognize that manifestations of
    discrimination and intolerance, such as anti-Semitism, racism,
    xenophobia, and hate crimes threaten the security of
    individuals, communities, and societies and may give rise to
    wider scale conflict and violence that undermine international
    stability and security. For this reason, OSCE participating
    States strongly condemn racial and ethnic hatred, anti-
    Semitism, xenophobia, and discrimination as well as persecution
    on religious or belief grounds and have committed to combat
    these phenomena in all of their forms.
        The past few years have evidenced a trend away from a
    global culture of respect for human rights. Anti-Semitism,
    racism, and xenophobia continue to be an issue of concern
    across the OSCE region. Some minority communities, including
    people of African descent, Roma and Sinti, and persons with a
    migrant background, including refugees and asylum seekers, are
    disproportionately affected and targeted by security policies
    that include racial and ethnic profiling.
        Additionally, numerous hate crimes against these
    communities and other minority communities can be seen across
    the OSCE region as contributions to the ODIHR annual hate crime
    report show. While this has resulted in a broader and more
    visible dialog on the existence and impact of hate crimes
    throughout the OSCE region, it also threatens to reorient the
    focus of ODIHR's work from proactive to reactive.
        Occupying the vast area and fulfilling human rights left
    open by government, civil society has globally been put on the
    defensive in this work. The OSCE region has, unfortunately, not
    been spared this challenge as groups active in the promotion of
    tolerance and nondiscrimination and the identification of hate
    crimes are often branded as agitators and accused of
    destabilizing communities and societies. The subsequent
    withdrawal of many groups from the regional discourse has
    resulted in a lack of transparency and given license to the
    persecution of vulnerable groups.
        Additionally, human rights defenders from civil society
    addressing anti-Semitism, racism, and xenophobia are often
    themselves the victims of hate crime, often by association. In
    some participating States, they also report that the rise in
    intolerance leads to an increasing hostile environment for
    their work, cuts in government funding, and other ways of
    impeding their work. There is also a trend of emerging anti-
    migrant feelings with feelings of racism directed at a range of
    minority groups accompanied by the intersectional nature of
    many hate crimes.
        We also note that the increasingly technically
    sophisticated tools are needed to understand, analyze, and help
    combat hate crimes, anti-Semitism, racism, xenophobia, and
    discrimination. So, to address this, ODIHR has developed a
    collection of resources and programs to raise awareness about
    discrimination, hate crimes, anti-Semitism, and other forms of
    intolerance.
        Through advising on policy and training of law enforcement
    personnel and educators, ODIHR works to build the capacities of
    governments in preventing and responding to this problem. And
    in my written testimony, I note a couple of different programs
    that we have for civil society, which I am happy to address
    further.
        There is a need to tap further into the potential of dialog
    between governments, faith groups, and civil society, and in
    this light, ODIHR has convened a number of international events
    and trainings to address intolerance and discrimination. In all
    of these activities, ODIHR takes a comprehensive approach and
    brings stakeholders from different sectors and different
    communities to work together on a wide range of tolerance and
    non-discrimination issues.
        OSCE participating States have committed to take steps to
    prevent and address intolerance and discrimination while
    applying a common approach to address all acts and
    manifestations of hate while acknowledging the uniqueness of
    the manifestations and the historical background of each form.
        Different types of intolerance have their own unambiguous
    etymologies and rationale. Yet, in order to address the
    underlying biases and othering that underpins many forms of
    discrimination, we need to be aware of their similarities,
    their interconnected developments, and their constant
    intersection.
        At ODIHR, in line with the comprehensive nature of our
    work, we also believe in the power of building coalitions to
    address intolerance and discrimination, and we have built a set
    of tools for civil society and communities willing to engage
    together. ODIHR remains at the disposal of OSCE participating
    States, civil society, and other actors in supporting the
    implementation of their commitments to counter intolerance and
    discrimination. I look forward to your questions. Thank you so
    much.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Edwards follows:]

        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Keating. Thank you, Ms. Edwards.
        Dr. Williams.

          STATEMENT OF DR. ROBERT WILLIAMS, DEPUTY DIRECTOR,
     INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, UNITED STATES HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM

        Dr. Williams. Thank you, Chairman Keating, and members of
    the subcommittee not only for convening this discussion but for
    your leadership on this crucial issue.
        It is my great honor to speak on behalf of the United
    States Holocaust Memorial Museum. At the museum, we inspire
    citizens and leaders in the United States and abroad to
    confront hatred, to prevent genocide, and to promote human
    dignity through active engagement with the Holocaust.
        Why the Holocaust? We focus on the Holocaust because it was
    an unprecedented catastrophe because it involved multiple
    societies and cultures and did not respect any borders and
    because its scale was so vast we had to invent new
    international systems to cope with the damage.
        The Holocaust resonates in part because it warns us that
    the unthinkable is always possible, that all of us must rise
    above our potential to abuse privilege, and that we cannot
    remain on the sidelines when we encounter hatred.
        With the passing of the generation of Holocaust survivors,
    it is both more difficult and more necessary to counter anti-
    Semitism and hate in all of their forms. In addition to working
    at the museum, I am the chairman of the Anti-Semitism Committee
    at the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, a 34-
    Nation body of diplomats and experts who gather to deal with
    these issues. And I can tell you that today, one of the more
    increasingly common manifestations of anti-Semitism is
    distortion, less so denial of the Holocaust. This is something
    that spreads from the Russian Federation all the way to Ireland
    and from Finland to Italy. No country is immune.
        Now, there are many reasons for this. But one, to borrow
    from H.G. Wells, is our collective, ongoing race between
    education and catastrophe. Unfortunately, catastrophe seems to
    be leading the way. Decades of investment in scholarship,
    secondary education, Holocaust survivor testimoneys, and
    commemoration built awareness of the Holocaust, but more is
    needed.
        For example, a recent study found that, in France, 57
    percent of adults do not know that 6 million Jews died during
    the course of the Holocaust; 45 percent of French millennials
    are unaware that the French Government under Petain
    collaborated with the Nazis. Similarly disheartening results
    can be found elsewhere.
        Clearly, Holocaust education needs reinforcement over both
    the long and the short term, and it needs to be extended to new
    audiences. To do so, we Americans should work with our European
    allies and with intergovernmental bodies in order to first
    expand and strengthen the infrastructure of European
    institutions that can provide authoritative information on the
    Holocaust and help counter anti-Semitism and extremism.
        Consider my home institution, the United States Holocaust
    Memorial Museum. With consistent support by the U.S. Congress
    since 1993, my institution has hosted more than 45 million
    people onsite at our museum here in Washington, and more than
    that, close to 20 million people from 238 countries and
    territories each year accessing our online resources. Imagine
    if there were similar institutions in the lands where the
    Holocaust occurred.
        Second, we must work with our European allies to ensure
    that funds do not go to organizations that promote anti-
    Semitism, Holocaust distortion, or other forms of hate. It is
    surprising, but it happens more often than you may think. I
    have a few examples in my written testimony.
        Third, we must develop sustainable training programs for
    public servants that communicate the relevance of the Holocaust
    to their work. These programs should target civil servants, law
    enforcement, military leaders, legislators, and other
    government professionals. It might highlight the failures of
    their predecessors to not stand up against encroaching fascism
    or instruct on the warning signs that threaten our core
    transatlantic values or teach how to counter resurgent anti-
    Semitism and bias.
        There is no more American ethic than taking on the
    responsibility to do more, and doing more in this arena can
    help us continue to build a future that can avoid the
    calamities of the past and ensure that the Holocaust resonates
    for future generations. But if we do not act now, if we do not
    educate better, if we do not train more audiences, and if we do
    not equip ourselves to resist anti-Semitism and extremism, we
    will have failed the victims, we will have failed the
    survivors, and we will have failed one another. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Williams follows:]

        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Keating. Thank you, Dr. Williams.
        Rabbi Baker.

    STATEMENT OF RABBI ANDREW BAKER, DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL JEWISH
     AFFAIRS, AMERICAN JEWISH COMMITTEE, PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVE,
    CHAIRPERSON-IN-OFFICE ON COMBATING ANTI-SEMITISM, ORGANIZATION
                 FOR SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE

        Rabbi Baker. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this opportunity
    to address you and the committee.
        I have served for almost 30 years in my AJC role working
    with Jewish communities in Europe and in the last 12 years with
    the OSCE as a Special Envoy on Combating Anti-Semitism, which
    has allowed me to bring up this issue in about 30 of those
    countries. So let me suggest a kind of quick basic framework
    with which to look at the problem and identify the concerns and
    try and mobilize for action. More complete information you will
    find in my written testimony.
        I would say what we want to do, quite simply, is define the
    problem, recognize the sources of where the problem is emerging
    in Europe, and mobilize. How do we mobilize governments and
    others to deal with the problem? The issue of definition ought
    to be apparent by now. Anti-Semitism presents itself in various
    forms. It is prejudice. It is discrimination, but it is also
    conspiracy theories. It is Holocaust denial. It is also anti-
    Semitism as it relates to Israel, as when the State of Israel
    itself is demonized. It is important that societies understand
    it; that police, prosecutors, judges, and monitors recognize
    this multi-dimensional nature of anti-Semitism. We need to be
    able to recognize the different sources, the places from which
    anti-Semitism is coming today.
        There are five areas to look at and identify. We see anti-
    Semitism from the right, often present in extremist neo-Nazi
    groups, and in the growth of right-wing extremist parties where
    anti-Semitism is a part of their agenda.
        We see anti-Semitism on the left, a kind of anti-Semitism
    folded into left-wing movements and parties. The most notable,
    most evident had been Jeremy Corbyn and his cohorts in, the
    Labour Party in the U.K., where anti-Semitism is thinly
    disguised as a kind of anti-Zionis and that anti-Israel animus
    coming forward.
        We see anti-Semitism coming in different countries in
    Europe from parts of the Muslim and Arab communities. Here it
    may be generated by antagonism stemming from conflicts in the
    Middle East and perhaps a kind of imported anti-Semitism from
    those countries, but it has probably been the source in Western
    Europe of most incidents of anti-Semitism that Jews themselves
    have identified.
        Finally, we need to see that there are other aspects of
    anti-Semitism, that are not so much along a political spectrum.
    Holocaust distortion is a form of anti-Semitismin countries of
    Central and Eastern Europe, places where the Holocaust
    occurred, countries that did not really come to terms with
    their own history of participation, of collaboration. They
    could not do this until the fall of Communism, and what we saw
    was a kind of revival of their Fascist-era heroes and figures.
    The idea that somehow these people could be honored despite the
    role they played in the Holocaust is a terrible situation that
    we see in various countries. But its threat to the safety and
    security, to the physical and emotional comfort of Jews who
    themselves are largely communities of survivors and their heirs
    ought to be evident.
        Additionally, we see efforts in a number of Northern
    European countries to ban or restrict traditional religious
    practices, namely religious slaughter, kashrut, and ritual
    circumcision, Brit Milah. These may not be anti-Semitic by
    design, by intent, but they ultimately are anti-Semitic in
    effect, meaning Jewish communities could be prevented from
    observing ritual practices and parts of their religious life
    that has been with them for centuries.
        These are areas where we see the present day problems. The
    question now is what do we do? How do we mobilize governments?
    What can they do? The issues are clear. Security is first and
    foremost. We can only address anti-Semitism by understanding
    it. Thus, adopt that working definition of anti-Semitism so
    that society has a complete picture.
        Education. We have heard much about education dealing with
    the Holocaust, but that education also ought to include the
    long histories of Jewish life in these countries, so students
    understand what Jews contributed to those societies, and not
    see them only as victims in the Holocaust that followed.
        These elements, I think, all put together can give us a
    picture of the problems we face and the goals, the efforts that
    we ought to be asking our European partners to undertake. Thank
    you.
        [The prepared statement of Rabbi Baker follows:]

        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Keating. I thank all of you.
        A couple of points as I went through. The consistent thread
    was the issue of security, law enforcement, training. Before I
    was in Congress, I was a district attorney, and we had our own
    office, and we had programs on training prosecutors, educating
    prosecutors, training them, and police, including not only the
    police attached to us at our office but local police forces.
    When we had these programs, not only were the police willing
    participants, but they were enthusiastic, given the chance to
    get involved in this, but there were funding issues.
        And, also, I think, important for today's hearing, the fact
    that somehow the pressing issues of the day and the week and
    the budgetary issues, this well-intended effort probably on
    some of the forces would keep getting pushed aside by the
    leadership. So I think one of the lessons of today is the
    importance of that. We can make all the laws we want. If they
    are not interpreted--if they are not recognized when they are
    in violation or they are not enforced, those laws become
    meaningless. So that is an important thread I heard. I am glad
    these programs are being done outside the country as well, and
    if we can find ways to support that, let us know. Certainly
    come to us as a committee.
        The other thing is it is a little different politically in
    Europe and in the U.S. in this respect. They're parliamentary
    in nature, and there are multiple parties and coalitions. And
    the differences between those parties as they try and become
    larger or build coalitions, not the kind of coalitions we were
    talking about necessarily here, but there is a different
    political landscape there with these coalitions.
        And I recall trips that we took as Members of Congress
    where we raised issues with specific political parties within
    those countries saying, you know, you are gathering together.
    You are combining with these other groups that are clearly hate
    groups. And we called them out on it as, you know, part of the
    U.S., but can you just enlighten us a little bit with your
    experience internationally? That is a difference and there is
    more pressure with these coalitions that are built to have
    small minority people have greater influence because that could
    push them over the top of the coalition.
        Ms. Edwards, I know you are anxious to address that.
        Ms. Edwards. Thank you. Yes. Well, of course, as many of
    you might know, some of the flagship programs that ODIHR has
    been offering for many years now are training on hate crimes
    for police and for prosecutors. And so that is one of the major
    efforts that we do make with governments across the OSCE
    region, and that has been highly successful and well
    implemented series of programs. And we are actually very
    grateful for the United States and their recent contribution to
    that work. So I would definitely agree with your statement that
    this is something that we found to be very effective but also
    something that many police forces and prosecutors are very
    enthusiastic about. It is certainly helpful in their work.
        To your points regarding coalition building, this is an
    issue that we address more regularly with members of civil
    society rather than political parties. And I think it could go
    both ways. I think that obviously the tools that we have for
    civil societies who are building coalitions are to build
    coalitions specifically addressing intolerance and
    nondiscrimination, and--I am sorry--intolerance and
    discrimination. So we are encouraging them to join with groups
    that might be completely different than their own perspective,
    whether it is a Jewish community, Muslim community, LGBTI,
    people of African descent, refugees, migrants, et cetera. We
    encourage work all of them to come together because there are
    so many issues in areas where they do have things in common,
    where they do face similar challenges, and where they can
    support--as Representative Meeks said, you know, he wants the
    Jewish community to stand up against racism as well as----
        Mr. Keating. What if we could--about the issue of these
    political coalitions because we see that all the time, even in
    the most democratic of countries. We see coalitions, political
    coalitions within parties coming together so they have enough
    for the majority. And they seem to be embracing, frankly, other
    groups, political parties that are some of them racist, clearly
    racist. I mean, we do see it. Is there any comment that--I
    know, Mr. Forman, you touched upon it. That is what got me to
    thinking about this question.
        Mr. Forman. So, in a parliamentary situation, one of the
    things I was struck with when I was at the State Department was
    the influence of the United States on our European allies, and
    I talk often with my students about where our influence is
    greatest.
        A lot of times we have allies in Europe who are doing
    things on anti-Semitism which we are very--we think they are
    trying their best. And the problems are largely civil society.
    We have actually more influence when the government is part of
    the problem. Countries often, as in eastern Europe, where,
    again, they want U.S. support. I think you touched on it, Mr.
    Chairman, that the administration, any administration needs to
    speak out on some of these things.
        Where we have neo-Nazis being possibilities in coalitions,
    it is essentially we are embarrassing, we are shaming people,
    and I think on some levels, Members of Congress also have that
    ability. These hearings, hearings like this, hearings on
    specific countries have that power.
        And the other thing is there is an organization of
    parliamentarians against anti-Semitism. It has not been very
    active, but U.S. Members of Congress could take a more leading
    role in that organization and encourage parliamentarians to
    push on whether issues like this or other issues we think they
    could be doing better on.
        Mr. Keating. Since my time is up, I will recognize
    Representative Pence, but I think for the other members of the
    panel, you will have an opportunity, I think, to address those
    kind of issues with the other questions.
        Representative Pence.
        Mr. Pence. Thank you, again, Chairman Keating and Ranking
    Member McCaul, for having this hearing, and thank you all for
    being here. I think you heard that I am in the family business
    on anti-Semitism earlier, and it is education, education,
    education. I would like to start by highlighting my home State
    for its work to educate the next generation of Hoosiers about
    the Holocaust. Indiana is currently one of only 12 States that
    requires Holocaust education as part of State curriculum. I
    would like to commend Governor Holcomb, who declared January
    27th to be Eva Education Day in honor of Auschwitz survivor and
    Hoosier Eva Kor.
        To all the witnesses, thank you for your time. I appreciate
    you sharing your experience. Rabbi Baker, I think you put it
    wonderfully and simply in your testimony, quote: Education
    matters, and all of you, actually, everyone today mentioned the
    education. I could not agree more. This point is an important
    theme in all the testimony we have heard today: education,
    education, education. This morning I had a long conversation
    with Department of State Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat
    Anti-Semitism Elan Carr. Special Envoy Carr highlighted that we
    know the three distinct sources of anti-Semitism, which is--was
    mentioned repeatedly today: far right Neo-Nazism; radical left
    anti-Israeli-ism, if you will; and militant Islam. To talk
    about only one source is to not take the problem seriously. Mr.
    Carr's most important message to me, one that I think is worth
    emphasizing in this chamber is that it is important to fight
    all of it, all anti-Semitism wherever it rears its ugly head.
    Like many of the witnesses, Special Envoy Carr emphasizing
    importance of education combating the spiritual sickness that
    is anti-Semitism.
        I am grateful for Special Envoy Carr's time and very proud
    of the work he and his team are doing to ensure the United
    States is leading voice combating anti-Semitism around the
    world. We are truly blessed with amazing professionals
    dedicated to this important mission, like those of you at the
    table here. America is and must remain the leading voice in
    combating anti-Semitism around the world, and while we must
    call out both our partners and nonpartners alike who fall short
    of the mark in addressing anti-Semitism and hate, I sincerely
    hope and appreciate that this conversation also includes
    scaling up our efforts to work alongside likeminded nations
    toward our common goals.
        I do not have a question for the witnesses today; I simply
    want to say that I am grateful to you, Chairman Keating, for
    convening such an important hearing. I am thankful to all the
    witnesses for briefing the committee. Finally, I would like to
    close by saying that myself and my entire family have always
    been and always will be committed to pushing back against hate
    in all of its forms, and this week, in particular, I am proud
    of my home State and the work of the U.S. Government to combat
    the evil of anti-Semitism at home and abroad. I am proud that
    this subcommittee has devoted time to this important issue as
    there is always room to do better. I look forward to working
    with everyone in this room to continue to combat anti-Semitism.
        Mr. Chair, thank you. And I yield back the balance of my
    time.
        Mr. Keating. Thank you, Representative.
        Vice Chair Spanberger.
        Ms. Spanberger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I would like to begin by asking questions on behalf of my
    colleague, Representative Frankel, who had to leave to another
    meeting, but she was kind enough to task me with her questions.
    Her first question is, can you assess overall what European
    governments' responses are to rising anti-Semitism and how
    effective they are? And the second piece of her question, which
    I think might direct some of your answers, are European
    governments coordinating on data sharing and hate crime sharing
    across borders, and do you see this being effectively addressed
    at the EU level?
        And I will open it up to whoever would like to speak to
    this questions.
        Mr. Williams. So perhaps I will just start, and then I will
    hand it over to my colleagues because we are all engaged in
    this together, overlapping at times. Concerning European
    government responses, it will not surprise you to know that
    those responses are inconsistent across borders. It depends on
    the State, and it depends on how seriously they view anti-
    Semitism as a domestic issue as opposed to an issue that they
    like to displace on other countries. There is a tendency in
    some European countries to say that anti-Semitism is a problem
    only of France. ``We do not have anti-Semitism here because we
    do not have a Muslim population, for example.'' This form of
    displacement is increasingly common in certain central European
    countries. There are other times where anti-Semitism is
    displaced as a legacy from the Second World War, but you are
    seeing this rhetoric more often than not emerging from the
    Russian Federation vis--vis Baltic member countries or Poland.
        So there is no single formula. Now there are convening
    bodies of which the OSCE is one. I will let the OSCE ODIHR
    speak for itself. The other would be the European Union's
    Agency for Fundamental Rights where there are attempts to
    collect data and to issue recommendations on how to deal with
    anti-Semitism, but as the so-called FRA notes in its most
    recent report, which came out at the end of last year,
    inadequate reporting of hate crime incidents, in particular,
    anti-Semitism makes their work exceedingly difficult. Added to
    this, there is a report also done by the Fundamental Rights
    Agency that notes that 79 percent of Jews in, at least, 12 EU
    member countries do not report hate crime incidents when they
    happen. This is because they believe that, even if they told
    the police, nothing would happen as a result.
        So there are problems to be solved. I think there is also a
    demand for American leadership and American expertise. I see
    Representative Pence--I wanted to mention something specific to
    Indiana, which is hard for a boy who grew up in Kentucky, but
    IU, in particular, has a model that may be worth exporting
    abroad. IU is one of the only universities in the world that
    has an academic center focused on the study of anti-Semitism.
    And more than that, IU has been one of the central universities
    in the United States teaching the essential foreign language
    skills needed to confront anti-Semitism today. Those foreign
    languages, in particular, include Russian and Ukrainian. Thank
    you.
        Rabbi Baker. I think one of the real challenges and
    questions, if you compare countries, is really, what is the
    political will to deal with these problems. In some of these
    countries, I would say the first problem is the question of
    physical security for Jewish communites, and it took some years
    for governments really to step forward. They have made partial
    progress, but hopefully one can look at what one country is
    doing to try to press or encourage another country to follow
    suit.
        I think as recently as, 2012, 2013, we saw serious attacks,
    but little effort on the part of governments to really realize
    the threats facing Jewish communities, let alone doing
    something about them. More and more they are doing something
    now. They are providing funding. They are trying to coordinate
    with their own police and so on. There have been tragic events
    where they were simply not there when they should have been,
    and so I think that is one area where there is growing
    recognition and action on the part of governments. At the same
    time, those threats have not disappeared, and even if buildings
    themselves are protected, Jews going to and from synagogue or
    schools or simply walking day-to-day in the streets are
    vulnerable, and it may not always be physical attacks but
    verbal harassment and the like. So that is something that is
    present as well.
        When we talk about education, I think it becomes so
    important to say: Understand that Jews are part of your
    society, and even as there is a focus on Holocaust education,
    keep in mind that that Holocaust history often presents a very
    limited and distorted picture of what Jewish life is or was
    like. Our own organization analyzed the textbooks, of several
    European countries, and typically we found Jews appeared
    twice--2000 years ago to explain the coming of Jesus and
    Christianity, then they disappear, and return only in the
    1930's and 1940's to be victims in the Holocaust.
        So, to try to get a full picture of who they are,
    particularly in societies where Jews are few, is a challenge.
    It requires government support, not just in education but
    supporting museums and the like. And here, too, I think, good
    examples in one place can help leverage others. The European
    Union, the European Council has important declarations. It is
    up to governments to follow through. Similarly, in the OSCE,
    there are a great number of significant commitments that
    governments have made in security and education, in police
    training, in collecting data, but countries really need to be
    encouraged to live up to those commitments.
        Ms. Spanberger. Thank you.
        Ms. Edwards. Can I answer your question about the data
    collection? This is actually one of the biggest flagship areas
    that my office actually works on, and we produce the largest
    collection of hate crime data in the world every year on
    November 16th on the International Day of Tolerance. And, of
    course, anti-Semitism is one of the issues that is covered, as
    well as racism, xenophobia, anti-Muslim bias, LGBT, many, many
    forms of bias, and this is, of course, reported to us by all of
    the OSCE governments, or, at least, most of them, but this is
    one of the commitments that OSCE countries have made to provide
    that data to ODIHR every year so that we can publish it.
        We also publish a significant amount of information given
    to us by civil society and international organizations as well.
    But to your question about what can countries be doing better,
    this is an issue that we spend a lot of time in my departments
    working on. As Rob mentioned, we do a lot of trainings, often
    in coordination with FRA to assist participating States in
    improving their data collection efforts because we--and some of
    the studies that we have done have shown that we know--we get
    about 20 percent of the actual hate crimes that occur reported
    to us. So it is a very, very underreported phenomenon, and
    there are many reasons for this that we can obviously spend a
    lot more time talking about, but this is a huge effort, again,
    done by my departments to give us better data, and then that
    helps us, in turn, provide better assistance to governments.
        And one of the programs that was actually significantly
    supported financially by the U.S. Government was a project on
    comprehensive criminal justice approaches to hate crime. And we
    worked with four countries looking at different ways where
    criminal justice agencies in four different countries could
    work better to address these issues from a comprehensive
    nature. So doing joint police and prosecutor trainings, having
    an interagency approach, having studies on underreported
    natures of hate crimes. And then, at the end of that program,
    we brought all of these countries together so that they could
    learn from each other in the things they had gone through, and
    now that is being expanded. And, again, the U.S. has given us a
    contribution to help expand that work into countries beyond
    those four initial countries.
        So there is so much more that can be done. We are certainly
    so grateful for the support of the U.S. Government in doing
    this, but certainly a lot of room to grow in this area as well.
        Mr. Forman. Vice Chair Spanberger, my experience from 2013
    to 2017 at the State Department was there is a whole range of
    government reactions. In general, I would tell you that our
    major allies such as U.K., France, and Germany, I think at
    least at the Federal level, there is a real understanding, not
    only that they have to protect their Jewish communities, but
    this is an existential threat to their Democratic ways. I think
    you hear that and actually even, for example, in France when
    you went from a socialist government to the Macron Government,
    that kind of attitude stayed generally at the top, at least.
    And I think that oftentimes we will see, for example, in a
    place like Germany, they want to do the right thing; they often
    do not have the answers.
        When they have such large immigrant populations from
    countries where anti-Semitism attitudes are very high, they
    know that is a problem. They know 10 years down the road it
    could be a huge problem, and they are trying to think about how
    do they solve that problem. They do not know and, frankly, I do
    not think we know either, but some collaboration would be
    helpful.
        Once you get past those countries, there is a range of
    attitudes. There is apathy, there is ambivalence in some
    countries in terms of how important this issue, and in some
    countries, frankly, anti-Semitism is used as a political tool.
    It can be used in election campaigns by using anti-Semitism.
    Sometimes it is, ``Oh, look at how well we treat our Jewish
    communities.'' So there is a real range. And, frankly, things
    could change. For example, U.K. Governments both Labour
    governments earlier and Conservative governments have been very
    responsive and worked very closely with Jewish organizations
    like this Community Security Trust on security. They have been
    great, but if we had a change in governments, if we had a
    Labour government now, this would change dramatically. We would
    have real problems at the top at the U.K., so this is a whole
    range and a panoply, and I think as we look as a U.S.
    Government on how we address this issue, it is not simple.
    There is no cookie-cutter approach. We have to go country by
    country and the bilateral relationship to the United States and
    those countries is critical.
        And, again, political leadership starts it, but it is not--
    and our political leadership working with them sometimes in
    private diplomacy, sometimes in public diplomacy.
        Ms. Spanberger. Thank you very much.
        I yield back.
        Mr. Keating. Thank you. Just a final comment, and you could
    react to this if you want, but you brought up the issue, and it
    is a challenge generationally. You know, one of the things that
    I have discussed with my counterparts in the European Union and
    other European countries was the fact that the lack of
    understanding of historical coalition that we had, why NATO was
    based, why it was formed because the generation before, at
    least, me, they were participants. It was part of their real
    life. It occurred. They lived it. But the subsequent
    generations, they really do not quite understand that because
    they have not lived it. And we talked about, in terms of issues
    of security, how we have to work together on both sides of the
    Atlantic to make sure the next generation understands better
    and the generation after that because that is a real challenge.
    And, you know, when I was looking at the comment, I think, Dr.
    Williams made about, you know, denial is less used in
    distortion now, and if you have not lived it and you do not
    have that experience, it is that much harder to just educate
    and make people aware of it and that is another challenge. You
    know, I was in--several years ago when I was in Berlin, I was
    walking around and I was absolutely stunned because I looked
    around, and there was a huge set of murals of Adolph Hitler in
    his Nazi uniform all with his chief of staff and all his--all
    the names we recognize so well, the leading Nazis that worked
    with him and I said, what is that doing there? And I looked
    over and in the murals was historical, you know, explanation of
    what happened right out there in the public so you could not
    miss it. And then across the street--some of you might know--
    across the street was a park of stones and each of those stones
    represented victims in the Holocaust, and there it was. You
    could not miss it. Now that is not going to solve all the
    problems, but it is the kind of thing that is important because
    it is helping those other generations understand that something
    happened, and importantly, that these things were real.
        Hitler was real to my parents and that generation. They
    knew his evilness. They knew it existed in the world. It is so
    much harder transcending generations because he is some kind of
    character that is out there, and that is--when they have that
    kind of lack of real-time experience, it is easy to distort the
    way that they are doing that, whether it is social media or
    not.
        So that is part of our challenge, whether it is done, but
    we have to acknowledge what happened, and we have to make--we
    have to realize those of us that are touched with the
    generation that went to war and closer to it, that--or lost an
    uncle, as I did in World War II, I mean, those things are real.
    Now, the Holocaust Museum does a terrific job of making it
    real, but we have to find ways throughout all our communities
    and in other countries the fact that this existed, evil exists,
    it exists today, and we have to challenge it and acknowledge
    it.
        So, if you want to end with a closing statement on those
    things, and then I will give a second round before I give my
    closing statement if the vice chair wants more--maybe I will do
    this. I will have the vice chair--the day has been long--I will
    give the vice chair a chance to ask and you can address all of
    those issues.
        Ms. Spanberger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am so grateful
    for all of the time that you have spent with us. We have talked
    a lot about the need for education. Our first panel mentioned
    it, you all have mentioned it, and we have talked a lot about
    what happened in the Holocaust, the magnitude of the Holocaust,
    and I think Dr. Lipstadt made an interesting point when she
    said the Holocaust could not have happened without hundreds of
    thousands of helpers, people who either helped through
    aggressive action or people who helped by their silence. And we
    also see that, throughout history, there are ebbs and flows,
    and the data show that, in fact, right now we are seeing an
    uptick in Europe, in the United States, in anti-Semitic
    violence and rhetoric and so my question is, in addition to
    educating ourselves on what happened, I would love your
    comments, having read a fair amount about this just on a
    personal level, about what is wrong right now? What are we
    doing? What are some of the weaknesses in our society, be it
    economic, be it social, that is allowing for this sickness to
    take hold in a way that it hasn't as deeply in recent past and
    we see trends of what happened before Nazi Germany took hold?
    And I would love for you to comment socially, economic,
    political, what are the weaknesses, and how can we educate
    ourselves to inoculate ourselves against those weakness so that
    we can root out this sickness aggressively and ensure that, in
    fact, it is a never again reality that we all live? I will open
    the question to anyone who wants to answer.
        Mr. Williams. So maybe I will start. It is a very
    complicated question. I will not try to characterize the rise
    of populist governments in Europe in a few statements, but we
    do have--we are in a State, akin to whatever Professor Lipstadt
    said, where the guard rails have come off to a certain extent.
    There have been significant changes to the way that we educate
    not just on the other side of the Atlantic but closer to home
    as well. We often think of education in economic terms. There
    is a logic to this, of course, but it is not certain that our
    new modes of educating are promoting or creating the citizenry
    that we aspire to in the immediate post-war era. Are we
    teaching enough ethics? Are we teaching enough civics? There is
    no easy answer there.
        Part of it is also the breadth of what we educate. As Rabbi
    Baker noted, oftentimes when we talk about education about the
    Jewish experience, we get Israel 2,000 years ago, and then we
    get the Holocaust. We do not get the ways by which Jews have
    contributed to our societies and our culture. So we are seeing
    not just Jews but other subaltern groups, to use a very
    academic term, only in snippets. There is also, if I may, a
    tendency 75 years after an event for history to become subject
    to what some are calling denialism, some are calling the post-
    factual reality. This did not just happen in the case of the
    Holocaust, this happened in the case of the French Revolution.
    You need people to carry forth that history, especially when
    you are dealing with an event like the Holocaust, which was a
    civilizational break akin to the French Revolution, akin to our
    own revolution, that reshaped society, and if we reinsert these
    events in a way that have real meaning, like our revolution has
    meaning for our students today, perhaps then we will return to
    a more proper path.
        Mr. Forman. I would like to say that I do not want to be a
    pessimist here, but I think we have to recognize that we are
    not in the business of ending anti-Semitism. It has been
    alluded here it has been around at least 2,000 years. We can
    count on it is going to be around for centuries to come. We
    cannot eliminate it, but we can turn down--I like to use the
    metaphor of a faucet. We cannot turn the faucet off, but we can
    turn it down. But even that is difficult because it takes
    multiple strategies, and we have talked about some security
    strategies, we have talked--and there is all kinds of things to
    talk about in security, but, frankly, security as essential as
    it is does relatively little to tone down anti-Semitism.
    Perhaps prosecution will give some--strong prosecution will
    deter some violence, but, by and large, it is absolutely
    essential, but it is more like a Band-Aid than a cure.
        We talked a lot about education and I would like to address
    the chairman's talk about what education works, but, frankly--
    and we talk about political leadership, which I think is
    essential. Starting at the top but going down all the way to
    the local level. The one thing we do not talk a lot about--and
    it is not a magic bullet, it is not a silver bullet, it is not
    a magic wand, but an important piece--and that is civil
    society. We are not going to do this with just governments. We
    are not just going to do this with the Jewish community. We
    need to mobilize civil society. How do we do that? Well, 25
    years ago in Billings, Montana, probably a white nationalist
    threw a cinder block through the window of a Jewish home where
    there was a Hanukkah menorah. Very few Jews in Billings, maybe
    150, and there was this spontaneous reaction in civil society--
    religious leaders, all kinds of different denominations of
    Christian leaders, there were the local/political electeds,
    there were civic leaders, there were business leaders and the
    newspaper--that they had menorah marches. People put that--the
    paper published a menorah that they put in their windows. That
    message was to the white nationalists: You are not part of our
    society. We are going to ostracize you, and we are going to
    support the victims.
        Now that has to be done for anti-Semitism, but other forms
    of bigotry too. How do we generate that at a local level? How
    do we--we have probably the strongest civil society in the
    world, and yet perhaps there is some signs its weakening, and
    it does happen in Europe as well. There was in Italy just the
    other day a concentration camp survivor's home, she died a few
    years ago, her son is there and there was publicity in the
    Italian newspapers and someone wrote: Jews live here in
    graffiti on the door. And, again, there was a spontaneous march
    of hundreds of people in that village. We need to learn how to
    generate local leadership as well as to augment our political
    leadership.
        It will not be the silver bullet, but it is an important
    piece when we put it together with a lot of these other pieces.
        Ms. Edwards. I would add that, to address your question
    about some of the root causes here, there has been some
    fascinating studies about the cognitive bases for why these
    forms of racism, xenophobia, anti-Semitism exist and these
    studies show that humans are basically hardwired cognitively
    for an in-group preference, for people who look and speak and
    believe and think like them. And this can basically be overcome
    in two ways: One is being self-aware about one's own personal
    biases, and, two, by meaningful connections with people who are
    different from themselves. And we, of course, at ODIHR
    highlight that this is a huge way in which intolerance and
    discrimination can be overcome is through coalition building,
    civil society as Mr. Forman mentioned, you know, bringing
    people from different backgrounds together to all come together
    and say, you know: Hatred has no place here. We do not accept
    any form of racism, xenophobia, anti-Semitism, et cetera.
        And I think the other key issue that we are working on in
    my office around educational issues, because it does start with
    young people, we have to make sure that young people have the
    tools and resources and that teachers have the tools and
    resources to address this in the classroom. And so we have
    spent the last few years working on educational policy
    guidelines around anti-Semitism, creating teacher tools and
    educational guides on various different forms of anti-Semitism;
    the history, what does this look like when statements are made;
    and giving very clear step-by-step guidelines to teachers on
    how to address it very easily because often they do not have
    the tools or resources or knowledge on how to address some of
    these things. We are also creating video guides and a framework
    curricula around anti-Semitism, and we are taking these tools
    and then expanding them. So we are creating a similar set of
    tools around intolerance against Muslims and hoping to do this
    for other communities as well. So making sure that teachers
    have these tools, not just at a high level, you know, at the
    Federal or national level, but that teachers in the classrooms
    in every part of the country have these resources available to
    them as well.
        Ms. Spanberger. Thank you.
        I yield back. Thank you for the extra question, Mr.
    Chairman.
        Mr. Keating. And thank you Mr. Forman about civil
    engagement. I just want to say that you are on target--and if
    people are listening, there are so many ways to do it. It can
    be done through clergy, through faith-based communities, but it
    can also be done from families. I learned much as a young child
    from my grandmother who talked about the discrimination she
    suffered coming from Europe where they--people in the
    neighborhood banded together to buy the house that they finally
    scrimped up enough money to save for, and they had a
    neighborhood meeting, made phone calls. Fortunately, they were
    not successful, but someone wanted to build a temple right down
    the street where she lived, and the chutzpah of the woman
    organizing the meeting called up my grandmother to see if she
    would get involved, and she would say in her Irish brogue: This
    wouldn't be the same type of meetings you had about me, would
    it?
        But she told me the story when I was a young boy, and one
    way we can civilly engage is families should tell the stories
    while the generations are there. We had an event I cosponsored;
    it was a leap of faith in Cape Cod in Massachusetts, and it was
    an American mosaic. It was just an idea. We threw it out there.
    We did not know if it would succeed. We just put in the
    newspaper and asked people to come together and tell their
    family stories. We had people come from Europe, so many came
    from Europe and their families came in the 1930's to escape
    what was occurring there that is the subject of today, the
    Holocaust, and they told remarkable stories of their family.
        We had people telling stories from parts of Asia and how
    they came here. We had people whose generationally they did not
    come here voluntarily. Their families came as slaves, and they
    told stories about lynchings from their grandparents. They told
    stories about how their parents' parents could not get married
    legally, what happened. So many different stories.
        So, Mr. Forman, there is no dearth of opportunity to engage
    civilly in this and hopefully we can come from this.
        And just a final note. This is the Foreign Affairs
    Committee, and I think we have a special place when we deal
    with issues of the Holocaust and anti-Semitism. I know all of
    the committees in Congress and all the Members of Congress
    share a real concern and a need to speak up and go forward and
    be leaders, but the Foreign Affairs Committee from the seats
    that you are in, if you could look up to your right and see the
    portrait that is hanging there on the furthest to the left,
    that is the portrait that is hung of Tom Lantos. Tom Lantos was
    the only Holocaust survivor to serve in Congress, and he was
    the former chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, and he
    founded the human rights caucus which later was transformed
    into the Tom Lantos Human Rights Commission. So I am sure, as
    he is looking down at us now, he would be very proud of the
    committee today, of your participation here today, of the
    thoughtful and moving comments that our two panels have made,
    as well as the comments of members of the committee.
        So I thank you for being a part of that today and, with
    that thought in mind, adjourn.
        [Whereupon, at 4:39 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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