[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
OVERSIGHT OF THE UNITED STATES CAPITOL POLICE
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON HOUSE
ADMINISTRATION
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JULY 16, 2019
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Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available on the Internet:
https://www.govinfo.gov/committee/house-administrationl
Committee on House Administration
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
38-607 WASHINGTON : 2020
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116th Congress
ZOE LOFGREN, California, Chairperson
JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland RODNEY DAVIS, Illinois,
SUSAN A. DAVIS, California Ranking Member
G. K. BUTTERFIELD, North Carolina MARK WALKER, North Carolina
MARCIA L. FUDGE, Ohio BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia
PETE AGUILAR, California
C O N T E N T S
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JULY 16, 2019
Page
Oversight of the United States Capitol Police.................... 1
OPENING STATEMENTS
Chairperson Zoe Lofgren.......................................... 1
Prepared statement of Chairperson Lofgren.................... 4
Hon. Rodney Davis, Ranking Member................................ 47
Prepared statement of Ranking Member Davis................... 49
WITNESSES
Hon. Paul D. Irving, Sergeant at Arms, U.S. House of
Representatives................................................ 6
Prepared statement by Hon. Irving............................ 8
Hon. Steven A. Sund, Chief of Police, United States Capitol
Police......................................................... 12
Prepared statement of Hon. Sund.............................. 14
Hon. Michael A. Bolton, Inspector General, United States Capitol
Police......................................................... 24
Prepared statement of Hon. Bolton............................ 26
Mr. Gus Papathanasiou, Chairman, U.S. Capitol Police Labor
Committee...................................................... 33
Prepared statement of Mr. Papathanasiou...................... 35
QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD
Hon. Paul D. Irving, Sergeant at Arms, U.S. House of
Representatives, responses..................................... 54
Hon. Steven A. Sund, Chief of Police, United States Capitol
Police, responses.............................................. 60
Hon. Michael A. Bolton, Inspector General, United States Capitol
Police, responses.............................................. 87
Mr. Gus Papathanasiou, Chairman, U.S. Capitol Police Labor
Committee, responses........................................... 97
OVERSIGHT OF THE UNITED STATES CAPITOL POLICE
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TUESDAY, JULY 16, 2019
House of Representatives,
Committee on House Administration,
Washington, D.C.
The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 9:58 a.m., in Room
1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Zoe Lofgren
[Chairperson of the Committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Zoe Lofgren, Jamie Raskin, G.K.
Butterfield, Marcia L. Fudge, Pete Aguilar, Rodney Davis of
Illinois, Mark Walker, and Barry Loudermilk.
Staff Present: Sean Jones, Legislative Clerk; Jamie Fleet,
Majority Staff Director; David Tucker, Parliamentarian; Khalil
Abboud, Deputy Staff Director; Aaron LaSure, Professional Staff
Member; Lauren Doney, Communications Director and Deputy Chief
of Staff for Mr. Raskin; Lisa Sherman, Chief of Staff for Mrs.
Davis of California; Veleter Mazyck, Chief of Staff for Ms.
Fudge; Evan Dorner, Legislative Assistant for Mr. Aguilar; Kyle
Parker, Senior Policy Advisor for Mr. Butterfield; Peter
Whippy, Communications Director; Jennifer Daulby, Minority
Staff Director; Timothy Monahan, Minority Director, Oversight;
Cole Felder, Minority General Counsel; Susannah Johnston,
Legislative Assistant for Mr. Loudermilk; Nicholas Crocker,
Minority Professional Staff; and Courtney Parella, Minority
Communications Director.
The Chairperson. Good morning to our Members, witnesses,
and guests. This morning, we will discuss the important work of
the United States Capitol Police.
Let me begin by thanking you and your families for your
service to the Congress and the Nation. We are grateful to you
for your work every day.
The United States Capitol Police and its men and women have
a long history of service. To put this tradition in
perspective, the department is older than half the 50 States.
For nearly two centuries, its officers have protected those who
work in and visit the Capitol complex. Two years ago, Mr. Davis
and our other Republican colleagues on the Committee saw their
bravery firsthand. When a gunman opened fire at a baseball
practice, the lives of many of our colleagues were threatened
and Republican Whip, Mr. Scalise, was nearly killed.
The intervention of the Capitol Police and local law
enforcement undoubtedly made the difference that day. Officers
Crystal Griner and David Bailey helped save many lives despite
being injured. Next week, we will commemorate the ultimate
sacrifice made by two other members of the force. July 24th
will mark the 21st anniversary of the murder of officer Jacob
Chestnut and Detective John Gibson, two brave Capitol Police
officers who gave their lives in the Capitol Building
protecting the Congress.
The example of these four heroes is a powerful reminder
that, day in and day out, the women and men of the department
dutifully stand watch protecting Members, staff, and the 12
million people who visit the Capitol complex each year, ready
to put themselves in harm's way, if necessary.
The officers of today's Capitol Police have something in
common with the first four members of the force back in 1828: a
noble commitment to public service that could, in the blink of
an eye, entail putting their lives on the line to protect
others.
But the 1,918 sworn officers and 366 civilian employees of
today's force operate in a vastly different world with threats
and challenges that sometimes seem to change by the day.
This Committee's job is to ensure that the Department, like
any other legislative branch agency, successfully executes its
core mission in a complex and changing world. Our witnesses
here today represent the leadership of the Department,
including our representative to the Police Board, our brand new
Chief, the new Inspector General, and the President of the
union. Each of you has a vital role to play in keeping the
Congress secure and operating.
The Committee's oversight includes ensuring the United
States Capitol Police continue to critically review its
policing practices to ensure those practices evolve and are
refined based on best practices and new information. We want to
make sure the Department is focused on its core mission,
protecting Congress, and has enough resources to do so.
Threats to Members are coming from new places, from the
private messages of social media platforms to intense
interactions at public events and townhalls. We must understand
how the Department is adapting to the new threat environment.
We also want to understand more about how the Department is
operating from your intelligence collection and assessment to
your own internal cybersecurity practices and posture.
Moreover, the police must seek to ensure the diversity of
its employees by establishing sound recruiting practices and
sound employee diversity training. A diverse workforce is a
strong workforce and investing in training and development will
telegraph to the rank-and-file officers of the Department that
Congress is committed to investing in you and your career and
that there are more opportunities for you to compete for roles
of increasing and different responsibilities.
With respect to workforce issues, the Committee is
concerned with the status of the relationship between the
United States Capitol Police executive management and the
Fraternal Order of Police Labor Committee. The current
collective bargaining agreement was last ratified 3,325 days
ago on June 8, 2010, and negotiations to establish a new
contract have failed to produce a new agreement. It is our hope
that labor and management come to the table and reach an
agreement that is fair for employees and productive for
management.
As the U.S. Capitol Police completes its second century of
service to the Congress and the Nation, it should be a
bipartisan goal of this Committee and the Congress to ensure
that it has the resources it needs and continues to fulfill its
core mission. The Committee's oversight of the Department
stewardship of those resources and continued development of its
employees is one of our highest priorities.
I will recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Davis, when he
arrives for his opening statement, and other Members are
invited to put their opening statements into the record.
I will now recognize our witnesses joining us today.
The Honorable Paul Irving, House Sergeant at Arms, is the
36th person to serve as Sergeant at Arms, having previously
served as Assistant Director of the United States Secret
Service and a special agent with the Service for 25 years. Mr.
Irving's experience includes service on the Presidential
protective details for President George H.W. Bush and President
Bill Clinton.
The Honorable Steven Sund is the Chief of Police. Chief
Sund has been Chief for 33 days. Welcome. He has served the
prior two and a half years as Assistant Chief and Chief of
Operations. Chief Sund came to the Department from the
Metropolitan Police Department, where he began his career in
1990 as a patrol officer. The Chief was steadily promoted,
retiring as Commander of the Special Operations Division where
he was the lead planner for the 2009 and 2013 Presidential
Inaugurations as well as the incident Commander for the 2009
shooting at the Holocaust Museum, the 2012 shooting at the
Family Research Council, and the 2013 active shooter incident
at the Navy Yard.
Michael A. Bolton is the Inspector General of the United
States Capitol Police. Mr. Bolton has been with the Department
since 2006, serving as agency's first assistant Inspector
General for investigations and, later, as the acting Inspector
General until his selection for the permanent position in
January of this year.
Gus Papathanasiou, he introduced himself to me as Pop, is
the Chairman of the Fraternal Order of Police. He joined the
Department in 2003 and first became involved in the FOP in 2006
when he became a shop steward. From 2009 until 2016, he was the
union's first Vice Chairman, and he was elected as Chairman in
2016.
As I said earlier, I ask unanimous consent that all Members
have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks
and that written statements be made part of the record.
Now, I will remind our witnesses that your full statements
will be made part of this official record. We ask that you
summarize your testimony in about five minutes. I think you are
familiar with the little light warning system on the desk. When
it turns yellow, you have a minute left. Red, time is up. And
then we will go to questions by the members.
We will start with you Mr. Irving.
[The statement of The Chairperson follows:]
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STATEMENTS OF THE HONORABLE PAUL D. IRVING, SERGEANT AT ARMS,
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES; THE HONORABLE STEVEN A. SUND,
CHIEF OF POLICE, UNITED STATES CAPITOL POLICE; THE HONORABLE
MICHAEL A. BOLTON, INSPECTOR GENERAL, UNITED STATES CAPITOL
POLICE; AND GUS PAPATHANASIOU, CHAIRMAN, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE
LABOR COMMITTEE
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE PAUL D. IRVING
Mr. Irving. Chairperson Lofgren, Ranking Member Davis, and
Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to
testify today on the oversight of the U.S. Capitol Police.
It is an honor and a privilege to serve this institution,
and I look forward to continuing to partner with the Committee
on the oversight of the Capitol Police priorities and execution
as this year progresses.
As the House Sergeant at Arms, I serve as a member of the
three-person Capitol Police Board, which also includes the
Senate Sergeant at Arms and the Architect of the Capitol. By
law, the Board is charged with the appointment of new Chief of
Police. I am proud to testify here with the recently appointed
Chief of Police Steven Sund.
I am also very appreciative of Michael Bolton, who was
appointed Inspector General of the Capitol Police this year.
The Inspector General serves as a key partner in collaborations
to make the Capitol Police a better and more efficient
institution.
I am also glad to be here with Gus Papathanasiou, call him
Gus or Big Papa; that is easier for me. As Chairman of the
Capitol Police Labor Committee, he is a strong--a strong and
effective partnership between the Labor Committee and the
Capitol Police is necessary to accomplish the Capitol Police's
mission.
The Capitol Police's mission is broad and challenging,
designed to both protect buildings and people of our democracy.
In the past several years, the challenges have become greater.
For example, this year, the Capitol Police has responded to and
investigated an immense number of threats and directions of
interest against House Members. The Capitol Police is on the
front line of this effort, and I commend their hard work as
they investigate each threat.
I interact daily with the Chief and members of his
executive management team, ensuring proper coverage of Member
events, the progress of Capitol Police initiatives impacting
Members, staff, and visitors, and the day-to-day security
issues impacting the campus.
The Capitol Police Board meets at a minimum monthly serving
as an oversight and governance structure of the Capitol Police.
The Board works with the Capitol Police to develop its future
strategy, melding the best law enforcement practices with the
business processes of the institution that we serve. In
addition to the development of law enforcement strategies, the
Capitol Police Board also focuses on good governance of the
resources of the Capitol Police that the Capitol Police
receives.
In regard to oversight, the Board periodically requests
that the IG examine a host of ongoing issues regarding
strategic direction, ongoing operations, such as intelligence,
cybersecurity, and dignitary protective operations, as well as
financial and budget accountability and resource management.
The Inspector General serves as a vital partner in the Capitol
Police Board's governance review of the Capitol Police. The
Board relies on reports we receive from the Inspector General
on the closure of audit findings to ensure the Capitol Police
are effectively improving their own governance.
I am very appreciative of the Capitol Police Labor
Committee's efforts to improve the working conditions and
quality of life of the hardworking men and women of the Capitol
Police. The Capitol Police Board worked with Gus last year as
we spearheaded a waiver of the biweekly pay cap, and we have
also supported other FOP initiatives and priorities so
important to our dedicated officers who are on the front line
of ensuring our safety and security every day.
Most importantly, the Capitol Police serve as a vital
partner to the office of the Sergeant at Arms. Day to day, my
office is working with the Department to help deliver better
security outcomes to Members, staff, and visitors. I believe
these day-to-day interactions help illustrate the close
interaction between my office and the Capitol Police from which
I can analyze the effectiveness and customer focus of the
Capitol Police.
Thank you once again for the opportunity to appear before
the Committee. I am so appreciative for the Committee's
unyielding support and partnership as we strive to maintain the
delicate balance between strong security measures and a free
and open access to the Capitol complex.
I am happy to answer any questions you may have.
[The statement of Mr. Irving follows:]
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The Chairperson. Thank you very much.
Chief, we would be pleased to hear from you for five
minutes.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE STEVEN A. SUND
Chief Sund. Good morning, Chairperson Lofgren, Ranking
Member Davis----
The Chairperson. I think the microphone needs to be turned
on. There is a little button there.
Chief Sund. Let me try that again.
The Chairperson. Better.
Chief Sund. Good morning, Chairperson Lofgren, Ranking
Member Davis, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for the
opportunity to update you on the operations, workforce, and
priorities in carrying out our missions to protect Congress and
to secure the Capitol complex. I am pleased to be joining Paul
Irving, House Sergeant at Arms, and members of the Capitol
Police; Michael Bolton, U.S. Capitol Police Inspector General;
and Gus Papathanasiou, Chairman of the United States Capitol
Police Fraternal Order of Police and part of the panel. Each of
them plays an important role in our success and operations, and
I appreciate and respect their input and working relationship.
This week marks my first month as Chief. Having served in
law enforcement for more than 27 years, the past two and a half
years as Assistant Chief, I cannot think of a more noble place
to serve our country as a law enforcement officer than at the
U.S. Capitol. I am truly honored to be selected for this
position, and I appreciate all the hard work my civilian and
sworn colleagues do each day to make my department successful.
I want to thank the Committee for the opportunity to lead
this outstanding organization. I appreciate your continued
support as well as Congress' generosity in providing the
resources we need to support our critical mission. The type of
policing we do is unlike any other police department. It is
highly specialized to focus on the unique requirements of
protecting our legislative process and the First Amendment
rights of our citizens, maintaining an open and accessible
campus, and preventing crime and terrorism. Our daily reality
is that the U.S. Capitol remains a desired target for
assailants both domestic and foreign. Therefore, we continually
assess the risk and adjust our strategies for addressing any
threats.
Over the past five years, the number of threats that we
have been investigating have steadily increased. As a result,
we work closely with the Capitol Police Board to augment and
strengthen how we protect Members of Congress. My priorities
and focus areas for the U.S. Capitol Police include enhancing
Member protection both on and off campus; further enriching the
professionalism of the Department through training, modern
equipment, and leadership; and investing in our employees, from
recruiting to retirement, and to encourage personal and
professional growth and development.
Protecting Congressional facilities is a key part of our
overall operation. We recently began implementing our security
plan for the Rayburn Garage. We are now training our officers
and will begin staffing garage security posts in the very near
future. We are working with the Sergeant at Arms and our
oversight committees on plans to communicate a new procedure
prior to their implementation.
We are also working on ensuring that we have the
appropriate level and scope of leadership and supervision to
successfully carry out our mission. This has required a
critical look at our organization. I am continuing this
evaluation and look forward to discussing recommendations with
the Capitol Police Board. To ensure the department's continued
success, we will continue to grow its diversity to include the
representation of women and underrepresented populations as
well as the inclusion of thoughts and expressions. Our
diversity office continues to lay strong foundations for
promoting and institutionalizing diversity, equity, and
inclusion throughout the organization.
Over the past three years, we have focused on peer support
and crisis management, inclusive mentoring to support career
advancement, and succession planning, and increased our
cultural competencies.
In regard to our recruiting efforts, our new recruits
consist of the top 1 percent of those who apply to our
department. We have been successful in recruiting a diverse
groups of applicants. For example, our most recent graduates
have a wealth of talents and experience and many of them are
skilled in languages, to include Arabic, Creole, German,
Gujarati, Italian, and Spanish and that is just one graduating
class. Several of our officers have prior military services,
and all have a deep commitment to our mission.
It is not enough to simply attract the best. We also
provide our employees with training they need to grow
professionally, the equipment and systems they need to work
effectively, and the proper tools to ensure they maintain a
well-rounded life. Over the next 18 months, this department
will play a critical role in developing security plans for the
Democratic and Republican National Conventions and the
Presidential Inauguration. In fact. We have already begun
planning for the conventions and are in the initial planning
stages for the Inauguration.
For 191 years, the United States Capitol Police have
quietly and professionally protected Congress, staff, and
visitors from harm. As Chief, I will continue building upon
this legacy.
Again, I want to thank the Committee for this opportunity
to testify. I look forward to continuing to work with you to
ensure we successfully accomplish our mission today while
preparing for the challenges and opportunities for tomorrow.
I would be happy to answer any questions that you have.
Thank you.
[The statement of Chief Sund follows:]
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The Chairperson. Thank you.
Mr. Bolton, we would love to hear from you for five
minutes.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE MICHAEL A. BOLTON
Mr. Bolton. Thank you.
Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to appear
before the Committee on House Administration to discuss
oversight of the United States Capitol Police.
I have been with the Inspector General's Office since 2006
when it was stood up and was appointed as the Inspector General
in January 2019. I would like to thank the Committee for its
sustained unwavering support of the United States Capitol
Police Office of Inspector General.
The OIG is dedicated to ensuring that the department,
Board, and committees are accurately informed of audit and
investigative reviews through a submission of our independent
reports. These comprehensive reports serve the department in
achieving the goals of their mission in providing a financially
responsible operation as well as a safe and secure environment
for all Members, staff, public employees, and visitors to the
Capitol complex.
However, none of this would be possible without the support
of Congress and that of the Capitol Police Board. We very much
appreciate our discussions with you and your staff about our
work and future projects. These discussions have provided us
with a regular opportunity to provide the Committee with
important updates about our activities, challenges, and focus.
By providing objective information for promoting government
management decision making and accountability, the OIG
contributes to the agency's success. OIG is an agent of
positive change, focusing on eliminating waste, fraud, and
abuse, and identifying problems and recommendations for
corrective actions by agency leadership. OIG provides the
agency, Board, and Congress with objective assessments and
opportunities to be more successful.
The Office of Inspector General is comprised of three areas
of responsibilities: audits, investigations, and
administrations. As you may well know, investigations maintains
the OIG hotline, a confidential channel for complaints or
concerns about violations of laws or regulations, gross waste
of funds, abuse of authority, or mismanagement.
Annually, the OIG prepares a summary of the most
significant management challenges facing the Department. The
challenges reflect continuing vulnerabilities that OIG
identified over the last several years as well as new and
emerging issues the department will face in the coming year.
The top management challenges that face the Department are,
one, protecting and securing the Capitol complex; two,
strengthening cybersecurity strategies to address increasing
threats; three, strong integrated internal control systems;
four, managing Federal contracting more effectively; and, five,
human capital management.
Protecting and securing the Capitol complex from terrorists
and weapons of mass destruction while at the same time
protecting Congress and its staff and welcoming the public
continues to be a major challenge. In several reports, OIG made
recommendations designed to bolster Capitol complex security.
For example, OIG recommended that the department expand its
counter surveillance prescreening program by including
Committee hearings as well as outside entry points, such as
garages.
Congress has indicated that cybersecurity threats are one
of the most serious economic and national security challenges
facing our Nation and that America's economic prosperity in the
21st century will depend on cybersecurity. As cybersecurity
threats become increasingly sophisticated, more numerous,
Capitol Police faces the challenge of reevaluating and
expanding traditional approaches to security information
technology systems. Although making progress in improving human
capital operations during the past year, the department
sometimes lacks the basic management and capabilities needed to
effectively and efficiently implement new programs and
policies. The Department faces new and more complex challenges,
including budget constraints, recruitment, training of new
officers, and involving security threats. At this time, the
Department is in the process of formulating a strategic plan
for fiscal year 2020 and beyond, which provides the department
an opportunity for ensuring diversity, inclusion, equity, and
associated data analytics at the forefront for the Department
and its employees. In addition, OIG will continue to review
policies and procedures related to discipline as the department
moves forward in this ever-changing environment.
For fiscal year 2019, the Department challenges remain at
five. But overall progress has been made possible by the
actions of the Chief, Chief Administrative Officer, and the
leadership and staff within the department.
Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I
would be very happy to answer any questions the Committee may
have.
[The statement of Mr. Bolton follows:]
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The Chairperson. Thank you very much.
We will hear from our last witness, the Chairman of the
Fraternal Order of Police, Mr. Papathanasiou. Am I close?
STATEMENT OF GUS PAPATHANASIOU
Mr. Papathanasiou. You got it. Thank you.
The Chairperson. Good.
Mr. Papathanasiou. Good morning, Chairperson Lofgren,
Ranking Member Davis, and Members of this Committee. I would
like to, once again, thank you for giving me the opportunity to
testify before you in this setting on behalf of the FOP USCP
Labor Committee. Again, I am deeply humbled and honored to
testify before on behalf of the men and women that protect this
institution daily.
As I enter my 17th year with the U.S. Capitol Police, I
have been with the union's executive board for over a decade.
Joining me today are members of my executive board, 1st Vice
Chairman Keith McFaden; 2nd Vice Chairman Vinny Summers; and
former union Chairman, Jim Konczos. Also with me is legal
counsel for the union, Meg Meechak and Greg McGillivary.
After I testified before this Committee last year, I had
hoped to see some positive changes within the Department.
However, the atmosphere has remained the same. As I stated last
year, our labor union plays a vital role in the operation and
success of this Department. Fostering a positive and
constructive relationship between management and the sworn
employees is critical to the success of this agency.
However, there is an us-versus-them mentality that has
existed within this Department for as long as I have been here.
This mentality needs to end, and it needs to end now. Everyone
who works for this Department is on the same side and has the
same goal, and that is to protect Congress. I truly believe
that this agency has the potential to be one of the best law
enforcement agencies in the world. However, despite the hard
work and dedication of the employees of this Department, I
don't believe we are there yet.
With the recent retirement of former Chief Verderosa, I
quickly endorsed Chief Sund to succeed the former Chief. I felt
that Chief Sund was the most qualified and best suited to lead
this Department in the right direction for years to come. I
also endorsed Inspector Tom Lloyd to be the next Assistant
Chief with USCP Board. Chief Verderosa and I had a good working
relationship over the last three years of his tenure, but we
disagreed on a lot of issues, including discipline. In fact, we
were at opposite ends of the spectrum on terminations.
With respect to our disagreements on discipline, two months
ago, I attended Chief Verderosa's retirement party. During his
speech, he stated that he was responsible for hiring 1,600
sworn officers, but he also stated that some believe that he
may have fired 1,600 officers. Although there was some
laughter, I didn't find that amusing one bit as I have
personally witnessed the stress and heartache officers have
endured over the years by the previous administrations of this
Department.
Chief Verderosa's comments were sickening to hear, as far
as I am concerned. Any employee's termination is no laughing
matter. Chief Verderosa's lighthearted comments about
terminating employees is an example of why morale is low within
this Department.
The information gathered by the union about employee
discipline shows the majority of employees proposed for
termination in the last seven years have been minorities. This
disturbing trend continues throughout the Department. The
former Chief's comments were even more disturbing in light of
the multiple terminations that have been reversed by neutral
arbitrators, decisions that were upheld by the Office of
Congressional Workplace Rights and even the Federal Circuit
Court of Appeals.
As Chief Verderosa testified last year before this
Committee, he saw things through a different lens than the
union. Well, maybe that lens was very foggy. The recent Federal
Court of Appeals decisions where the union and the employees
prevailed unanimously speaks volumes about how this Department
has been run and how unreasonable management has been. However,
none of these cases should have gone that far. If the
Department had reasonable leadership with a fair-minded
approach to its employees, this expensive and protracted
litigation could have been avoided.
Chief Sund and I have a good working relationship as well,
and I hope that together we can work on resolving issues that
can take this Department to a new level. However, I will call
on Chief Sund to address the lack of transparency for which the
department has suffered under previous administrations. Some of
the issues and concerns addressed by the union, and we will
continue to address, are improving officer morale; balance work
and family life; pay scale and pay cap issues; parking for new
officers; lack of training; promote career advancement;
progressive discipline not being adhered to by the CBA; fair
treatment of all bargaining unit members; good-faith
negotiations; resist cuts to pensions, to the USCP, and all
Federal law enforcement; enhance law enforcement retirements,
as we outlined in the 2012 GAO study; the union's proposed pay
scale compression; resolving grievances at low levels; promote
the well-being of officers; improve working conditions. These
are just some critical issues we need to work on collectively
to make positive changes for this department for both
management and employees as these issues affect us all.
Once again, I am proud of the men and women of the United
States Capitol Police. I am proud to be their union leader.
This union is stronger and united than it has ever been. I
think it is time to change how we do business and start working
together instead of against one another.
Thank you for allowing me to address this Committee, and I
look forward to any questions you may have.
[The statement of Mr. Papathanasiou follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairperson. Thank you very much.
We will now go to Members for questions they may have. We
will interrupt our questioning when the Ranking Member arrives
for his opening statement.
First, we will go to the gentleman from Georgia for his
five minutes.
Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, Madam Chairperson.
I appreciate everyone being here. First of all, let me say
a heartfelt thank you for all of you, from the Sergeant at
Arms, Capitol Police, for the task that you have and the job
that you do of making sure that this building is safe. The
visitors that we have come to their House, the seat of their
government, this is their property. Thank you for the work you
are doing there and on behalf of me and my two Republican
colleagues, all three of us were on the baseball field that
day. We firsthand witnessed not only the aggression toward us,
the shots being fired, but also the bravery by the Capitol
Police officers who were willing to go in, especially David
Bailey, who put himself in the line of fire to give me the
opportunity to try to get to Matt Mika and Crystal Griner, who
had been taken down right in front of us. Those are moments I
will never forget. I think it is our responsibility to make
sure that not only do you have the tools and the resources you
need to do your job but work closely with you to make sure that
it is done effectively and efficiently.
About two years ago we received a briefing that the threats
against Members of Congress was at a historic high.
Chief Sund or Mr. Irving, where are we today as far as the
threats against Members of Congress? Has it subsided some, or
is it still growing?
Chief Sund. Good morning, sir. Thank you very much for the
question.
We continue to see the threat assessment cases that we are
opening continue to grow. For fiscal year 2018, we had
approximately 4,894 cases and so far, for this year we have
2502 cases so we are on par to probably break last year's
record.
Mr. Loudermilk. What percentage of those would you consider
as credible threats?
Chief Sund. Well, when you talk about as credible threats,
we evaluate them to see if they fall within the legal framework
of what is considered to be an actual threat to do bodily harm.
A lower, much lower percentage of that number meet that
threshold but they are all still very concerning. They all
still require us to expend resources and evaluate but it is a
much lower percentage than--I don't have the exact percentage,
but it is a much lower percentage than the total number of
assessment cases we received.
Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. I know some changes were made after
incident at the baseball field. What kind of changes from the
Sergeant at Arms Office, and while I have you, Chief Sund, what
policy changes were made in the Capitol Police office? I would
like for both of you to answer no matter who goes----
Mr. Irving. Okay. I will take it first, and then, Chief, I
will pass it to you.
Some of the most salient changes that we have instituted is
a paradigm shift from traditional threat assessment that would
yield very little, if any, Capitol Police support to a Member
who is now receiving higher than average threats or direction
of interest communications. We now provide enhanced support to
their office. In terms of security services, we will liaise
very heavily with local law enforcement in their districts to
ensure that they are covered for public events. We ask that
they provide us their schedule, for example. Let us know when
they are going to making public appearances or traveling about,
and we will coordinate with local law enforcement and, at
times, Capitol Police depending on their activity.
So that enhanced level of support is something that was not
previously done to the basis that we are doing today.
Mr. Loudermilk. Okay.
Chief Sund. To add on that, we have worked to evaluate a
lot of our resources, specifically some of our tactical
capabilities and our uniform capabilities to create them into
little more agile resources that we are deploying more often to
provide support for Members' protection when they are locally
in the NCR region.
In reference to some of the comments made by Mr. Irving, we
work very closely with the House Sergeant at Arms in evaluating
some of the requests from the Members' office to evaluate
events that they are having both in their districts and around
here to coordinate law enforcement coordination to provide
support and help provide a little additional protection for
those events.
Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. I know in my office I have a person
who is my security point of contact. At some point, he is going
to be leaving, because he is a retired Navy veteran, worked
with the SEALs and so we are assessing someone else to come in.
Is there a training program? If not, is there a way that we
could develop one where we could provide some enhanced training
to our district staff that are points of contact for security,
how to report threats, how to secure your offices, what is the
best practices for security for Members and staff?
Mr. Irving. Yes, Congressman. We have a robust program, law
enforcement coordinator program. And we interact with the
district offices and encourage those law enforcement
coordinators to work our office. We provide a lot of support
documentation on how to secure Member events, what to do in
terms of Member security not only in their office but
residences, district office staff. We do provide security
awareness briefings and other briefings to these law
enforcement coordinators but certainly we will encourage
additional training as well, which we can enhance.
Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Thank you.
I yield back.
The Chairperson. Thank you.
The gentleman from North Carolina is recognized for five
minutes.
Mr. Butterfield. Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson.
Let me just begin by associating myself with the words of Mr.
Loudermilk as it pertains to the work of the United States
Capitol Police and the Sergeant at Arms Office. I had nothing
but positive experiences with both offices over the 15 years
that I have been in Congress. So thank you very much for what
you and your men and women do every day.
I know that you could not do it alone. I know that you
don't even suggest that you have done any of this alone. You
have hundreds, if not thousands, of people who support you in
your work and thank you. Thank you for that.
I am told by some of my colleagues, and even some of my
staff members, that the new Chief is a breath of fresh air. I
don't know what that means. But I am going to find out in the
weeks and months to come. But I am told, sir, that you are a
breath of fresh air to the agency. And I wish you nothing but
the best as you serve all of us. You are just not serving us as
Members of Congress; you are serving an institution. So thank
you for that.
One of my favorite stories, a little levity involved in
this. But one of my favorite stories was back January 20, 2009,
the date of the Obama Inauguration, the first Inauguration. I
had a guest in town who was disabled, and I had to go way out
in northwest to pick him up and to put him in my vehicle and
transport him to the Capitol. As I was doing so, the traffic
was, as you can imagine, horrendous. But then I saw a street
that was absolutely closed down. There was no traffic on the
street.
So, as a Member of Congress with my plate and all of that
stuff, my pin, I thought I could go down this empty street and
I did but what I didn't realize was that the pedestrian traffic
had been backed up in the tunnel at that very second that I
went down this street, the barricade was lifted, and
immediately tens of thousands of visitors descended upon that
street. The next thing I knew, I was right behind the Hyatt
Regency on New Jersey Avenue. When I looked around, there were
tens of thousands of people surrounding my car. And I could not
move.
So I knew I was going to miss the Inauguration. And so I
called the Sergeant at Arms Office and they took my dilemma
quite seriously. They contacted the United States Capitol
Police, and they did as well. I was extricated from that
situation. I won't go into the detail about how that happened,
but I was extricated from that situation.
Another story very quickly, I was on a vacation at a resort
here in the United States. The police from that town knocked on
the door to my hotel room and said that there had been a report
of me committing a crime there at the beach, which was
absolutely absurd. It was just foreign to anything that I knew
anything about. Immediately, once I proved myself to the local
police, they apologized and left. But the thought occurred to
me that it could be bigger than what it appeared. So I called
the Sergeant at Arms, the Capitol Police, just to make sure
that I was not overreacting. I was assured that I was not
overreacting. Immediately, the Capitol Police contacted the
Chief of Police of the town and worked through the situation
and made sure that I was safe from that point on.
I just use those two examples just to say you are here for
us, and we thank you. Thank you so very much.
Two questions--where is my clock? I don't even see the
clock, but two very quick questions. To the Chief, is the
disciplinary policy and the penalties the same for all
employees? What I mean by that is, are they the same for the
executive management as opposed to others within the agency? Do
the standards vary, the disciplinary standards vary?
Chief Sund. No. The standards are the same for all sworn
members. All members.
Mr. Butterfield. And you intend to enforce those standards
equally?
Chief Sund. Yes. I intend to apply them in a fair,
reasonable, and appropriate manner.
Mr. Butterfield. Okay. The OIG noted one of the top
management challenges was managing Federal contracting. What
internal procedures has the agency implemented to address
appropriate internal oversight of contractors, that is the key
word, of contractors working for the Capitol Police?
Chief Sund. We have implemented internal controls to review
the contract performance, monitor contracts for the various
contracts that we have within the United States Capitol Police.
In addition, we have recently started a program that we are
going to be rolling across the department that will do those--
more additional internal controls to make sure that we are
following up on additional comments and recommendations from
the IG. And those will also apply when it is fully rolled out
to the contract compliance review. We do review contract
performance and our performance with the various contracts that
we have in place right now.
Mr. Butterfield. Thank you. I encourage you to continue to
do that, continue to look at the diversity of the agency from
top to bottom, and make it the most diverse police force in
America that reflects the people that you represent.
Thank you. I yield back.
The Chairperson. Thank you very much.
The gentlelady from Ohio is recognized for five minutes.
Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson. Thank
you all so much for being here. Let me just say that my
interactions with the Capitol Police have been very, very
positive.
Mr. Chairman, if there was something--if there was just one
thing you could do that would change the morale of this
department, what would it be?
Mr. Papathanasiou. Ma'am, thank you. That is a good
question.
Actually there are a lot of things I would do to change the
morale of the Department but, right now, the discipline is, as
you know, from the previous administrations, been very severe.
I want to work with Chief Sund to kind of tame down the
discipline because it has kind of set a different tone
throughout the agency. And just to show you, those couple of
termination cases that we had before the Federal Circuit Court
of Appeals that were decided in our favor, the Department, you
know, saw it differently than we did, and we prevailed in the
courts and also with an arbitrator. So, with the Department
ignoring arbitrators and the Office of Compliance at the time,
which is now the Office of Congressional Workplace Rights and
then, you know--now it is in the Federal courts, I think that
is one avenue to start.
Ms. Fudge. Okay. Chief, do you or someone in your office
conduct annual reviews of discipline decisions to determine if
there are any trends and how these trends are communicated to
employees?
Chief Sund. We actually look at how the disciplinary cases
are reached, probably on a fairly regular basis. When we sit
down and review the cases, we often will meet with the union,
and depending on the type of cases they have come up, we will
review the past history of those types of cases as we are
implementing or considering what discipline is going to be
implemented.
Ms. Fudge. When you see these trends, does it lead to
additional training? Or how do you address them?
Chief Sund. If we see something that would require
additional training, I would absolutely say we need to
reconsider additional training. One thing that I would look at
is, you know, what are some alternatives to some of the levels
of discipline that we have in consideration. But if we do see
something that would be a concerning trend, we look at whether
it was a policy or a training violation.
Ms. Fudge. Okay. Because kind of what I am hearing from the
Chairman is that training, or lack thereof, is part of the
problem. Am I right, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Papathanasiou. Ma'am, you are absolutely right. Right
now, the only training that we do get is we qualify twice a
year with the firearm. Our range policy--a lot of officers have
an issue with the range policy. We are not allowed to take our
issued weapon and go to any outside range. You are only allowed
to shoot at this range. I will give you another example. Our
active shooter course used to be a 3-day course. They dwindled
that down to 2 days and now 1 day. So there is a lack of
training.
The other training that we do get is basically online
training. Officers--you have to go to a computer and log in.
And they just whip through a bunch of exercises or slides, and
that is pretty much it. So there is a lack of training within
the Department that I want to see improved.
Ms. Fudge. Chief, that is something probably we would need
to discuss sometime going forward. I don't need you to answer
now. But, clearly, if they are saying they don't get enough
training, it is something that ought to be addressed.
Chief Sund. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Fudge. Let me just ask you how diversity initiatives
are incorporated in your recruiting efforts.
Chief Sund. I am sorry. What was the last part of it?
Ms. Fudge. How is diversity incorporated in recruiting for
new officers?
Chief Sund. Very good.
Diversity is key. You know, in my 27 years of law
enforcement, I have had the opportunity to work in a number of
different--with a number of different agencies and seen the
value of diversity in thought and diversity in expression. And
it is something that we value as an agency.
So, with recruiting, we look at diversity all the way
through the rank. But specifically for recruiting, we have
recently worked with--the Chief Administrative Officer, Mr.
Braddock behind me, has worked with our diversity officer,
Natalie Holder, to develop and work with our PIO, Ms. Eva
Malecki, to look at recruiting from a variety of standpoints.
First of all, we look at our recruiting material. We want
to make sure that it references a diverse environment, that it
references the type of applicant we are looking for.
So we have recently gone and rebranded our recruiting
material to incorporate the variety of demographics that we are
looking for--more women, various underrepresented populations.
So we have redone the recruiting pamphlet.
The other thing we have noticed is our best recruiters are
sworn officers. So, recently, we started a collateral
recruiting program where we have officers that, in addition to
their regular duty, they go through special training, and they
become recruiters. They represent a diverse group of population
so we can send them out and recruit with universities that
represent diverse populations and underrepresented populations,
areas that we are seeing diverse populations that we are
looking to target, and women.
Just to give a quick idea just how----
Ms. Fudge. My time is up.
Let me just, as I yield back, Madam Chairperson, just say
that I do hear a great deal of frustration on behalf of the
rank-and-file officers in this department and I hope, Madam
Chairperson, in our next hearing, we would have a chance to
address that.
But thank you so much, Chief. I appreciate that.
Chief Sund. Yes, ma'am.
The Chairperson. The gentleman from Maryland is recognized
for five minutes.
Mr. Raskin. Madam Chairperson, thank you very much.
I also want to just salute everybody involved in protecting
us. The terrible incident that took place at the baseball game
reminds us that all of us are obviously vulnerable to these
kinds of attacks, and it is the police officers that are sworn
to protect us and put themselves in harm's way to protect
Members of Congress. So we appreciate that on a daily basis.
Let's see.
Mr. Papathanasiou, let me start with you, if I could.
Are there parts of the interim or draft disciplinary policy
that the FOP and labor disagrees with or would like to see
changed?
Mr. Papathanasiou. Thank you, sir.
Good morning, by the way.
Mr. Raskin. Good morning.
Mr. Papathanasiou. Yes. We never got--you know, when we
were given this policy, it is called an interim guidance now,
because we didn't get to negotiate with the Department like we
wanted to. They didn't give us their proposal and full draft so
we can go back to them, you know, with our proposals. It was
kind of--I would like to sit down with the Chief and discuss
some of these policies. Actually, in our full meeting the other
day, I did ask him to sit down and, you know, look at some of
these policies. That would be one of them, to revise, and kind
of tweak some of the policies we have issues with.
Mr. Raskin. Okay. Chief Sund, is that something you are
committed to doing to work with Mr. Papathanasiou about that?
Chief Sund. Absolutely. I am very committed to work with
the union on that and other issues.
Mr. Raskin. Okay. Very good.
Mr. Irving, let me ask you. The Federal Circuit Court of
Appeals recently issued several rulings against the Capitol
Police for violating fair labor practices.
Was the Capitol Police Board aware of this litigation
status? And do you concur with the decisions of the Court of
Appeals, or can you explain where you stand with respect to
these decisions?
Mr. Irving. Yes, Congressman. The Capitol Police Board is
certainly aware of the decision of the Federal Circuit Court of
Appeals and we encourage the Chief to abide by the ruling.
Mr. Raskin. Okay. I mean, is there a learning process that
has been put into place do you think that is sufficient so that
we won't see a repeat of these kinds of decisions?
Mr. Irving. Yes. I think that, based on the facts, I can
certainly understand why the case was brought. But there is no
doubt that there needs to be additional interaction between, I
believe, the Department and the union on these issues. I am
very encouraged by, you know, what I am hearing now between
Chief Sund and Gus.
So the answer is, yes, it was definitely a lesson learned.
Mr. Raskin. We have an opportunity with the new Chief for a
fresh start in terms of labor relations.
Mr. Irving. Absolutely. And the Board is very encouraged.
Mr. Raskin. Let me ask you a different question.
There has been a lot of discussion about the inherent
contempt powers of the House and questions that I know raised
about it--first of all, can you clarify, was there ever a
holding cell within the House of Representatives? Do you know
that? In the 19th century when----
Mr. Irving. A lot of folklore.
Mr. Raskin. Yeah.
Mr. Irving. Not that I am aware of. We use the Capitol
Police holding cell, frankly.
Mr. Raskin. Okay. Can you explain, then, exactly how that
works? I had a lot of constituents in the last Congress, kids
who were arrested sitting in about gun safety legislation, and
so on. They went to Speaker Ryan's office, and they were
arrested. I ended up going down to--I guess it was one of the
police districts in the District of Columbia, in Anacostia, to
get them out late at night. But what is the--explain the
procedure when someone gets arrested, say, in a civil
disobedience----
Mr. Irving. I am going to turn some of that over to the
Chief, if you don't mind, to give the----
Mr. Raskin. Sure.
Mr. Irving [continuing]. Specific procedures. I do remember
that particular case. I think they were a juvenile group.
Mr. Raskin. Yes.
Mr. Irving. And then there was a very different set of
circumstances, and they were treated very differently than
adults. But, Chief, do you want to elaborate a little bit on
the procedure?
Chief Sund. Absolutely. Thank you very much for the
question, sir.
Our offices are extremely well trained in handling civil
disobedience cases. Usually, what will happen is we have civil
disobedience that occurs outside. We have civil disobedience
that often occurs inside. We will work with the organizer. We
usually touch base with the organizer to get an idea what the
intent is.
But once the people begin to violate the law, they will go
through a couple different warnings depending on the type of
violation. But usually, whether they are obstructing a hallway
or chanting, they usually get three notices that they are
getting ready to be placed under arrest. The organizers
understand it. We talk to them ahead of time. We tell them
exactly what is going to happen. We will get to the third
arrest. Usually, at that point, you see the people that we will
actually be arresting take a certain stance. The others will
back away, because they want to make sure they know they are
not going to get arrested. Our officers move in. We rarely ever
receive complaints. Our officers are very polite.
Mr. Raskin. Do you handcuff?
Chief Sund. Yes, we do. Yes, we do. We either use handcuffs
or flex cuffs. It is a safety requirement. And then we will
move them either down into a processing facility at 119 D
Street or our mass processing, or sometimes we will, depending
on the number, we will use a citation release program.
Mr. Raskin. So there is no holding area in the Capitol?
Chief Sund. Not in the building itself, sir.
Mr. Raskin. Okay. I yield back.
Thank you, Madam Chairperson.
The Chairperson. The gentleman's time has expired.
I would like to recognize the Ranking Member for his
opening statement before we go to him for questions.
Mr. Davis of Illinois. Madam Chairperson, thank you very
much. Madam Chairperson, I apologize for being late. The
problem with having two Committees. But I am really honored to
be here today. I really want to welcome Chief Sund to the first
hearing. I hope it is going well. It only goes downhill from
here.
Look, based on your performance over the last few years, I
am looking forward to working with you in your new position. I
can't think of anybody more qualified and with the unanimity of
support coming in since I have been here. So those are some
great credentials, but also high hopes. We have a lot faith in
you, Chief Sund.
I do want to thank the Sergeant at Arms, Mr. Irving. You
know, you have always been there, been willing to talk to me
about issues throughout this Committee and throughout my tenure
in Congress. Thanks for your service and thanks for being here.
Mr. Bolton, thank you for your oversight. It gives us an
opportunity to be better members of the oversight panel.
And then also Gussy Papa--Big Papa. Thanks, man. You do a
great job as a chair. I can't tell you how many times I see you
out there talking one on one, working hand in hand with the
folks that you represent and that, to me, shows true
leadership. Your members should be proud to have you as their
Chairman. I am proud to call you my friend.
I want to thank everyone for what you do for the Capitol
Police. And having oversight of the Capitol Police is very
special to me because I can tell you, without the bravery of
your officers, the men and women who make up the Capitol
Police, I wouldn't be standing here today, because being on
that baseball field in June 2017, I can tell you I have never
been so terrified in my life. But to see the training, the
courage of David Bailey and Crystal Griner to fire back at a
crazed gunman. I am going to be honored today to be with my
colleague Mr. Raskin when he presents another award to those
two heroes.
When I am ever asked, ``Who are your heroes in life,'' you
don't get further than David Bailey and Crystal Griner. They
did the Capitol Police the best that anyone could ever ask for
in a terrible situation like that. They did what they were
trained to do and that, to me, shows what the men and women of
the Capitol Police are all about. You should be very proud of
them, as I know I am. I know you are and all the fellow
officers are.
I believe that every officer that makes up the Capitol
Police force, if put into that same situation that David and
Crystal were put in, they would do the exact same thing, and
all of us would still be here.
The most important mission that you do on a daily basis is
to prevent a similar act like that from occurring. I think you
guys do a great job, not without criticism that we will often
bring, but with questions. The criticism is questions and
Members will have a lot of questions but thank you for your
openness and willingness to address those issues, and thanks
for making us and the many millions of visitors that come every
year feel safe too.
We do take our oversight responsibilities very seriously,
and that is why you are here today. I have been clear and
consistent in laying out what I believe our oversight
expectations are. First, we want to improve communications with
Member offices. Second, we want to build a strong culture of
service in everything that you do. Third, we want to
institute--we want to see you institute commonsense processes
and procedures. Mr. Irving and Chief Sund, this expectation, in
particular, should be kept in mind during garage security
implementation as well as the use of the Joint Emergency
Communication System.
Finally, we hope you ensure the House is getting a return
on investment for the additional resources that you receive.
With additional resources come additional expectations. All of
you have laid out important priorities for the 116th Congress.
I look forward to continue to work with each and every one of
you. I am honored to know each and every one of you. I am
honored to get to know every member of the Capitol Police force
that serves this great institution.
Thank you for the privilege of allowing me to serve. Thank
you for what you do.
And I will yield back, Madam Chairperson.
[The statement of Mr. Davis of Illinois follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairperson. The gentleman yields back but is now
recognized for five minutes for his questions.
Mr. Davis of Illinois. Well, I didn't know showing up late
I get 10 minutes. This is awesome.
The Chairperson. Ten minutes, but not in a row.
Mr. Davis of Illinois. I will try not to make this a common
occurrence.
Well, thank you.
Chief Sund, congratulations again on your appointment. I
enjoyed getting to know you before you were Chief, and I am,
again, really looking forward to working with you in your new
capacity.
I know you laid out in your testimony, you know, what you
expect out of the Capitol Police. But what is your vision and
what might you--what haven't you said already that could help
us lay out that vision and make sure that we provide the proper
oversight for you to be able to do your job?
Chief Sund. You know, ensuring the preparedness of the
officers out in the field is probably my biggest initiative.
Ensuring that they have got the right equipment, ensuring that
they are--the morale is a major issue. But making sure that
they are getting the proper training and the proper equipment
that they need to do their job.
The concerns with cybersecurity, the concerns with the
increasing threat is a major initiative. I am working closely
with our Protective Services Bureau and the House Sergeant at
Arms on ways we that can improve Member security off campus.
They do an outstanding job working with the House Sergeant at
Arms and the program they have in place to evaluate and assess
the different events that the Members are involved with and for
law enforcement coordination. Looking at ways that we can
enhance that in the future I think is going to be key as we are
looking at the various threat increases out there in the field.
And then the professionalism and the training of upper
leadership. I want to look at some opportunities that we have
out there, both through some of the universities that are out
there, Center for Homeland Defense and Security, for getting
some additional training opportunities for our leadership and
develop their--broadening their skills and their horizons.
Mr. Davis of Illinois. Well, thank you, Chief Sund. I am
glad you brought up professionalism. As we have seen, some
members of the Capitol Police force have not acted in a
professional manner. But, clearly, as our institution, also we
clearly see examples of fellow Members of Congress not acting
in a professional manner. But those are the exceptions. I want
people to remember that when we talk about the brave men and
women of the Capitol Police.
Mr. Chairman, Big Papa, do you believe the CBA in its
current form is sufficient to address all labor issues between
the Capitol Police and the FOP, particularly those involving
contentious termination decisions?
Mr. Papathanasiou. Mr. Davis, thank you for that question
and for the kind words earlier.
In regard to the CBA, in my recent meeting with the Chief,
actually, our first formal meeting, I did present him with an
MOU to basically rip out the back page and for him to sign and
me to sign it, continue with this contract as is, and then have
a little cooling-off period and try to start negotiating again.
Both our teams are--actually, their negotiating team doesn't
exist anymore. I think some have retired or aren't even here
anymore. Our negotiating team has gone--one has been promoted;
one is leaving the Department. So I think we need two new
negotiating teams set forth. In the meantime, I asked for him
to look at the MOU I presented him with. And the ball is in his
court right now, so that is where we are at currently with the
CBA.
Mr. Davis of Illinois. I think we all agree that the
current CBA is not sufficient to address some of the issues,
especially with litigation----
The Chairperson. Right.
Mr. Davis of Illinois [continuing]. That we have seen. I
would encourage the Chief and the Chairman and Mr. Irving and
the Capitol Police Board to be engaged in this process. I think
all of us up here would like to see a new agreement. We
certainly hope you can sit down and hammer that out. I think it
is the best thing for all of us. It is the best thing for all
of you and continue to move forward.
Again, thank you very much for what you do. I appreciate
the time that you spend making this campus safe, and I
appreciate the heroism and the bravery of David and Crystal and
all the Capitol Police who do their job every day.
I yield back.
The Chairperson. The gentleman yields back.
I will just offer a couple of comments. First, all of us
have praised the dedication and bravery of the Capitol Police.
There was once a Member of Congress, Representative Mo Udall,
whose famous line was, ``Everything has been said, but not
everyone has said it.'' So I would like to join in those
comments of gratitude that we all feel to all of you for what
you do to keep us safe.
One of the things that we hope we can accomplish, noting
that the Chief has been in this position for a grand total of
33 days, is to make some improvements in the structure so that
the entire police force can feel supported and so that morale
can be good. You know, we have been without a contract for
almost 10 years, which is really astonishing. Hopefully, as I
said in my opening statement, we can address that issue. I
think that that--not having an MOU that is current--causes a
whole host of problems. In my experience with employees,
knowing what the rules are and knowing that they are evenly
applied goes a long way toward people feeling good about what
they are doing. Understanding what consequences are and having
a sense of transparency is very important in any workforce, in
any environment. So I know that that is something that the
Chief is going to strive for. And we hope that we will be
supportive of you as you work toward those important goals.
We have continuing changing threats, as has been mentioned,
all the way from cyber threats to increasing polarization
politically in the country that lead to people who are on the
margins feeling empowered to do things that they might not
otherwise have thought of doing. That poses a threat across the
country and certainly here in the Capitol. We do appreciate the
efforts that you make to make sure that that element is
adequately dealt with.
With that, I would ask that members submit any further
questions that they may have in the next five days and we will
keep the record open for that purpose.
I thank the witnesses for appearing and all the Members for
their participation and, without objection, this hearing is
adjourned.
Thank you very much.
[Whereupon, at 11:04 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
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