[House Hearing, 116 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


           HAITI ON THE BRINK: ASSESSING U.S. POLICY TOWARD A COUNTRY IN CRISIS

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
          THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, CIVILIAN SECURITY, AND TRADE

                                 OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                     ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                           DECEMBER 10, 2019

                               __________

                           Serial No. 116-85

                               __________

        Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
        
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COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                   ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York, Chairman

BRAD SHERMAN, California             MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking 
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York               Member
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey		     CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey     
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia         STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida	     JOE WILSON, South Carolina
KAREN BASS, California		     SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts	     TED S. YOHO, Florida
DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island	     ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
AMI BERA, California		     LEE ZELDIN, New York
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas		     JIM SENSENBRENNER, Wisconsin
DINA TITUS, Nevada		     ANN WAGNER, Missouri
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York          BRIAN MAST, Florida
TED LIEU, California		     FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida
SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania	     BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
DEAN PHILLPS, Minnesota	             JOHN CURTIS, Utah
ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota		     KEN BUCK, Colorado
COLIN ALLRED, Texas		     RON WRIGHT, Texas
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan		     GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia	     TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania       GREG PENCE, Indiana
TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey	     STEVE WATKINS, Kansas
DAVID TRONE, Maryland		     MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
JIM COSTA, California
JUAN VARGAS, California
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas                              
                            
                     Amy Porter, Chief of Staff      
                     Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director

                                    
                Jason Steinbaum, Democrat Staff Director
               Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director
               
                                 ------                                

  Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, Civilian Security, and Trade

                   ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey, Chairman

GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York           FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida,
JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas                  Ranking Member
ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York	     CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota             TED S. YOHO, Florida
ANDY LEVIN, Michigan	     	     JOHN CURTIS, Utah
VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas	     	     KEN BUCK, Colorado
JUAN VARGAS, California	     	     MIKE GUEST, Mississippi

                         Name,  Staff Director
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                               WITNESSES

Esperance, Mr. Pierre, Executive Director, Haitian National Human 
  Rights Defense Network.........................................     7
Douyon, Ms. Emmanuela, Nou Pap Domi..............................    16
Erikson, Mr. Daniel, Managing Director, Blue Star Strategies.....    25
Hermantin, Ms. Leonie Marie, Director of Development, 
  Communications, and Strategic Planning, Sant La Haitian 
  Neighborhood Center............................................    38
Garrastazu, Dr. Antonio, Regional Director, Latin America and the 
  Caribbean, International Republican Institute..................    42

                                APPENDIX

Hearing Notice...................................................    80
Hearing Minutes..................................................    81
Hearing Attendance...............................................    82

                        STATEMENT FOR THE RECORD

Statement for the record submitted from Chairman Sires...........    83

                 ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR THE RECORD

Statement for the record submitted from Representative Waters....    86

            RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Responses to questions submitted for the record from 
  Representative Sires...........................................    88

 
  HAITI ON THE BRINK: ASSESSING U.S. POLICY TOWARD A COUNTRY IN CRISIS

                       Tuesday, December 10, 2019

                       House of Representatives,

                Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere,

                      Civilian Security and Trade,

                     Committee on Foreign Affairs,

                                     Washington, DC

    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room 
2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Albio Sires (chairman 
of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Mr. Sires [presiding]. Good morning, everyone.
    This hearing will come to order. This hearing, titled 
``Haiti on the Brink: Assessing U.S. Policy Toward a Country in 
Crisis,'' will focus on U.S. policy toward Haiti and whether it 
is advancing our strategic objectives and contributing to peace 
and institutional strengthening in the country.
    Without objection, all members might have 5 days to submit 
statements, questions, and extraneous material for the record, 
subject to the length limitation in the rules.
    I will now make an opening statement and, then, turn it 
over to the ranking member for his opening statement.
    Good morning, everyone, and thank you to our witnesses for 
being here today.
    This hearing comes at a critical time for Haiti. For much 
of the past year, that country has been gripped by a political 
and economic crisis. Many factors are contributing to this 
concerning situation.
    Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere, 
with nearly 60 percent of Haitians living on less than $2 a 
day. Increasing inflation and rising cost of living have made 
life even more difficult for many Haitians already struggling 
to get by.
    At the same time, the administration of President Jovenel 
Moise has been unable to form a government, and the legislature 
has rejected his last two nominees for Prime Minister. 
Scheduled elections did not take place in October, creating the 
real possibility that the Chamber of Deputies will dissolve in 
January and President Moise will be ruling by decree.
    Yet, the street demonstrations have been seen in Haiti and 
appear to reflect even deeper discontent. It seems that the 
Haitian people have had enough of political elites who they 
feel do not represent them and advocate for their own 
interests.
    I hear this frustration. As someone who is deeply engaged 
in our hemisphere and who wants the best for Haiti, I believe 
it is completely unacceptable that some Haitian politician 
leaders are living lavishly while the people continue to 
suffer.
    I note that, for many Haitian people, corruption is not an 
abstract concept. Corruption helps explain why half of the 
country is undernourished. Corruption contributes to Haiti's 
extremely low adult literacy rate of just 60 percent, and 
corruption tells an important part of the story behind the 
roads that still have not been replaced following the 
devastating earthquake in 2010. In other words, the funds 
stolen by government officials through the PetroCaribe program 
did not merely disappear into thin air. These were dollars that 
should have been used to improve people's lives and were, 
instead, used to line the pockets of the political powerful. 
With today's hearing, I want to send a clear message to the 
Haitian people that members of the U.S. Congress recognize this 
profound injustice.
    This hearing is also about assessing U.S. policy and 
foreign assistance programs. I know that we have dedicated 
staff working for USAID and the State Department in Haiti who 
are trying to help improve the situation in the country, but I 
believe we need to think critically about how we can better 
support the Haitian people.
    For instance, I am very worried about the human rights 
situation in the country. I urge the State Department to push 
for full investigations into the Saline massacre last year and 
allegation of excessive use of force against protesters in 
recent months.
    It is clear to me that a prosperous and fully democratic 
Haiti is in the United States' best interest. Moreover, the 
United States relationship with the Haitian people is not a 
one-way street. We know that Haitian-Americans and Haitian-born 
residents living in the United States provide a crucial support 
for their home country and lift up our economies as well.
    That is part of why I have consistently defended Temporary 
Protected Status for Haitians. I want to thank my good friend, 
Senator Menendez, for issuing a report last month that 
highlighted the contributions of 56,000 Haitian TPS holders who 
have been living in our country and strengthening our 
economies. I will continue to work with my colleagues to defend 
TPS for Haitians. I will also work to protect the United States 
taxpayers' resources.
    It is for this reason that I will continue to oppose any 
effort to use U.S. assistance for funding the Haitian military, 
which is unnecessary and diverts resources away from the 
National Police. I appreciate Congressman Levin's leadership on 
this and his deep engagement with Haiti.
    I hope that this hearing enables us to have an honest 
discussion about the extent to which our current policy is 
helping combat corruption, tackle poverty, and promote human 
rights and the rule of law in Haiti. And I look forward to a 
bipartisan conversation about what more can be done to help the 
Haitian people. Thank you.
    And I now turn to the ranking member, who is not here, but 
he just showed up--so, this is what we call perfect timing in 
Congress--my good friend, Ted Yoho from Florida.
    Mr. Yoho. I apologize for being late to everybody.
    Thank you for being here.
    Mr. Chairman, since its transition from dictatorship to 
democracy in 1987, Haiti has struggled with political 
instability, extreme poverty, corruption, and other endemic 
challenges that have hindered its growth and prosperity. 
According to the World Bank, Haiti is the poorest country in 
the Western Hemisphere. It had a GDP per capita of $870 in 2018 
and ranked 168 out of 189 countries in the Human Development 
Index. Nearly 60 percent of the population lives below the 
national poverty line; 24 percent make less than $1.23 per day.
    While the extreme poverty is largely a product of 
corruption and inept governance, devastating environmental 
disasters have also contributed, such as the 2010 earthquake 
and Hurricane Matthew in 2016, which caused damage in Haiti 
equal to 32 percent of the country's GDP.
    The United States is committed to supporting the Haitian 
people and has a vested interest in seeing a prosperous and 
stable democracy in Haiti. Further, Haiti recognizes interim 
President Juan Guaido as the leader of Venezuela and maintains 
relationships with Taiwan, and should be commended for doing 
so.
    However, recent events in the country highlight the 
continued fragility of Haiti's democracy. During current 
President Moise's tenure, the country has seen widespread 
unrest and allegations of government corruption that have 
resulted in the resignation of two Prime Ministers and 
widespread calls for the President's resignation. However, the 
President has refused to step down, and sectors of the 
government have ground to a halt.
    For example, Haitian legislators have blocked efforts to 
confirm the new Prime Minister and foiled multiple attempts to 
ratify the government. This has led to increased social unrest, 
demonstrations resulting in the death of more than 42 people 
and hundreds injured. Further, the lack of electoral law 
threatens to force the dissolution of Congress and the 
continued postponement of an election is very concerning.
    The United States remains a major donor of foreign 
assistance to Haiti. In Fiscal Year 2019, the U.S. provided 
$139.8 million in assistance and the Trump Administration's 
Fiscal Year request included $145.5 million in assistance. This 
assistance is focused on emergency food aid and distribution, 
global health programs, education, and security.
    Further, the United Nations has a continued presence over 
the last 15 years. Various U.N. initiatives have focused on 
restoring order and building Haitian National Police into a 
professional police force of over 14,000 officers in charge of 
domestic security. However, the police remain underfunded and 
are in need of continued support. The U.N.'s Mission for 
Justice and Support in Haiti, which replaced a larger 
peacekeeping mission in 2017, sought to strengthen judicial 
institutions and protect human rights. In 2019, the United 
Nations transitioned its mandate to an integrated office in 
Haiti to advise the government on strengthening political 
stability and good governance through an inclusive national 
dialog.
    Going forward, the United States must continue to support 
the Haitian people and work toward economic prosperity, 
democratic stability, and respect for human rights. We want a 
peaceful and inclusive resolution to the political crisis and 
urge all sides to respect the rule of law and the Haitian 
constitution. At the same time, the Haitian government has a 
responsibility to be responsive to the needs of the Haitian 
people and investigate all reports of human rights violations.
    I look forward to this hearing. Here we are in the 21st 
century. I have people come into my office in Gainesville, 
Florida, from Haiti that are in pharmacy school, and we talk 
about the situation in Haiti. He wants to graduate in pharmacy 
and go back to help rebuild Haiti. We were talking about water. 
He said less than 20 percent of the people in Haiti have 
potable water. This is unacceptable. We are in the 21st century 
in the Western Hemisphere. It is not from a lack of resources. 
It is from a lack of people that get elected or put into office 
that will not put the people of Haiti first. They put 
themselves first, and this is something that has to change. I 
would hope in the Western Hemisphere we would all come together 
to make this a fruition and reality.
    With that, I yield back and thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    I want to welcome at this time Congresswoman Barbara Lee 
from California and Congresswoman Frederica Wilson from 
Florida. Thank you.
    And we will now go to our panel. I will now introduce Mr. 
Pierre Esperance, Executive Director of the Haitian National 
Human Rights Defense Network. As a leading human rights 
defender in Haiti, Mr. Esperance has worked with the National 
Human Rights Defense Network since 1995 to promote human 
rights, rule of law, and government accountability in Haiti. In 
2002, he was awarded the Human Rights Award from the U.S. 
Embassy in Port-au-Prince.
    Mr. Esperance, we welcome you. Thank you.
    We will then hear from Ms. Emmanuela Douyon. Ms. Douyon is 
an economist and a leader of the PetroChallenge and Nou Pap 
Domi social movement demanding greater government 
accountability and transparency in the wake of PetroCaribe 
scandal.
    Ms. Douyon, thank you for joining us today.
    We will then hear from Mr. Daniel Erikson, Managing 
Director of Blue Star Strategies and Senior Fellow at the Penn 
Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement. He previously 
served as a special advisor to Vice President Biden and as a 
senior policy advisor at the U.S. Department of State.
    Mr. Erikson, thank you for joining us.
    We will then hear from Ms. Leonie Marie Hermantin. Born in 
Haiti, Ms. Hermantin grew up in New York City and holds a Juris 
Doctorate from the University of California at Berkeley and a 
Master's degree in urban environmental planning. She is the 
Director of Development, Communications, and Strategic Planning 
at Sant La Haitian Neighborhood Center, an organization focused 
on supporting south Florida's Haitian community.
    Ms. Hermantin, thank you.
    Finally, we will hear from Dr. Antonio Garrastazu, Regional 
Director for Latin America and the Caribbean at the 
International Republican Institute. Dr. Garrastazu manages 
programs and initiatives across 16 countries in the hemisphere 
focused on governance, legislative strengthening, political 
inclusion, and election integrity. He holds a Bachelor's degree 
in history and political science from the University of 
Florida, as well as a Master's and Doctorate in international 
studies from the University of Miami.
    Dr. Garrastazu, thank you for being here.
    I ask the witnesses to please limit your testimony to 5 
minutes, and without objection, your prepared written 
statements will be made a part of the record.
    Mr. Esperance, you and your interpreter will be allowed 10 
minutes to provide the subcommittee with simultaneous 
translation.
    This is the first time we are doing this. Will you please 
tell him that?
    Non-committee members will also be joining us in this 
hearing. Without objection, I ask for unanimous consent, so 
that the Members of Congress who are not members of this 
subcommittee may be recognized to participate in the hearing 
and question the witnesses after subcommittee members have had 
the opportunity to do so. Do I hear unanimous consent?
    Mr. Yoho. No objection.
    Mr. Sires. Okay. Mr. Esperance, I now turn to you.

  STATEMENT MR. PIERRE ESPERANCE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HAITIAN 
             NATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS DEFENSE NETWORK

    Mr. Esperance. [Mr. Esperance speaks through a translator.] 
Chairman Sires and all the members of the committee, we would 
like to thank you for this hearing that you have on the ongoing 
situation in Haiti. It has been 20 years, in fact, more than 20 
years, since we have had a hearing on human rights issues in 
Haiti in Congress.
    My name is Pierre Esperance and I am the Executive Director 
of RNDDH. RNDDH is a human rights organization that works on 
education, promotion, and also the monitoring of human rights 
in Haiti.
    Amongst many pressing human rights validation issues in 
Haiti, I will highlight five of them. The first one would be 
the proliferation of armed gangs that are being protected by 
the State. Since 2018, the current administration in Haiti has 
used armed gangs to repress political dissent in Haiti. As a 
result, we have had at least five massacres in Haiti. The 
largest massacre was the one that was perpetrated in November 
2018 in La Saline. Seventy-one people were killed during that 
massacre, children and adults. Eleven women were raped and at 
least 400 homes were destroyed. When you take the totality of 
these massacres, there has been at least 127 people that have 
been killed.
    With the proliferation of gangs in security in Haiti, there 
has been also an increasing insecurity in the country. The 
gangs are, in fact, even better armed than the police itself. 
Just for this year, we have had 44 police officers that were 
killed.
    Second, we have violence and repression against those who 
are demonstrating against the Haitian government. Since July 
2018 to today, we have had at least 187 people that have been 
killed and 42 of those people were shot in the head.
    Third, there is a politicization of the Haitian judicial 
system. For example, all cases that are implicating 
authorities, like the La Saline case and the PetroCaribe case, 
they are all blocked by the judicial system. The authorities 
use the judicial system to persecute the opposition members. 
For instance, there has been arbitrary arrests of protesters.
    Fourth is the question of pretrial detention. Seventy-four 
percent of people are still awaiting trial from the prison 
population. The prison population can only accommodate about 
3,000 people. But, in fact, today we have more than 11,000 
people who are imprisoned.
    Fifth is the non-respect of constitutional process. The 
Haitian authorities were supposed to have elections that were 
scheduled for October of this year, October 2019. The elections 
did not take place for the following reasons: the President did 
not use his majority empowerment to pass an electoral law or a 
budget. And they also introduced a new national ID card that 
was illegally done. It is illegal because this was not approved 
either by parliament, by the legislators, or by the National 
Court of Auditors.
    As a result, in January of next year, January 2020, the 
Haitian parliament will no longer exist and the President will 
be able to rule only by decree. It is a very concerning issue 
for the Haitian population because the country, the Nation is 
involved in corruption; also, in systematic violation of human 
rights, and also in its support for gangs.
    Considering all the situations that we are going through 
right now in Haiti, the Haitian population is asking for a 
resignation of the current government. Because of those 
reasons, we are asking the U.S. Congress to do the following:
    To encourage the Haitian authorities to stop arming and 
protecting the gangs;
    To stop politicizing the police and judicial institutions;
    To fight against contraband,
    And also, encourage Haitian authorities to provide 
information regarding PetroCaribe funds and, also, the 
massacres perpetrated since 2018, and to better explain the 
rationale behind the creation of the new national ID card.
    And also, for the U.S. authorities to monitor the illegal 
entry of arms and ammunition that are coming to Haiti.
    Thank you for your attention.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Esperance follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Sires. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Douyon.

        STATEMENT OF MS. EMMANUELA DOUYON, NOU PAP DOMI

    Ms. Douyon. Chairman Sires, Ranking Member Rooney, and 
other distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you all 
for the opportunity to speak about the ongoing situation in 
Haiti. This hearing is an important step in recognizing the 
ongoing challenges the country is facing, and I look forward to 
sharing the perspectives of Nou Pap Domi with you today.
    For the past 18 months, the Haitian population has engaged 
in massive nationwide protests demanding increased government 
accountability. A movement called PetroChallenge emerged with 
two main grievances: government impunity and government 
corruption. This accountability movement is fueled by reports 
from both the Senate and the Court of Auditors outlining the 
misappropriation of an estimated $3.8 billion from the 
PetroCaribe fund. Successive Haitian administrations and 
officials have been implicated, including sitting President 
Moise.
    The response to the nationwide accountability movement has 
been varied. There are attempts to undermine accountability 
efforts. None of the officials implicated in the PetroCaribe 
corruption scandal have been held judicially accountable.
    Violence is used against protesters. Amnesty 
International's October report called on the government to 
protect the rights of protesters. There are attacks on the 
press. Journalists reporting on corruption and the popular 
movement have received threats and come under attack. Some even 
lost their lives.
    Armed gangs and State officials massacre civilians. They do 
this to repress dissent in neighborhoods such as La Saline and 
Bel Air. No one has faced charges for these crimes.
    This is a latent crisis that has finally exploded. 
Haitians, PetroChallengers, in particular, are committed to 
fighting corruption which is robbing them of the future. 
Besides, the economic situation in Haiti has worsened during 
Moise's presidency. Armed gangs that enjoy the protection of 
State officials proliferate. There is a consensus that Haiti's 
governmental system is broken and must be transformed to 
actually foster social equity and inclusion. Citizens from all 
sectors of civil society in both rural and urban areas are 
calling for the President to step down.
    To date, the U.S. Administration has largely stood by the 
Moise government. The U.S. has been recommending dialogs since 
2018, but the implication of high-level officials in acts of 
corruption and human rights violation has thwarted their 
legitimacy to lead national dialogs. Besides, the demand of the 
population is for systemic change.
    The U.S. has recommended the formation of a new government, 
but it is morally difficult to encourage citizens to work with 
a President that has been indicted in corruption. President 
Moise has already formed two governments during his 2 years in 
office. The reshuffling of the cabinet will not resolve the 
current crisis.
    The U.S. called to organize an election, but Haitian 
citizens see election as problematic and exclusionary within 
the current context. After the needed systematic reforms, 
organization elections is a priority for the transitional 
government. Haitian youth and civil society groups are willing 
to engage in the electoral process more actively in order to 
influence change.
    Moving forward, it appears increasingly likely that the 
President will not be able to complete his term. In January, 
the President will rule by decree without a legitimate Prime 
Minister and a parliament. This is a serious governance 
imbalance that raises several concerns. Many political actors 
and civil society organizations are collaborating to define a 
roadmap for the political transition.
    As of now, the international community does not support a 
political transition, but they must listen to the legitimate 
demand of the Haitian people. If the U.S. wants to support a 
sustainable way forward for Haiti, it must finally take its 
lead from Haitian civil society and support systemic reform. 
Corrupt officials cannot fight against corruption. The U.S. 
failure to stand with the legitimate demand of the current 
movement provides political cover for government corruption and 
impunity. That further undermines the right of the population, 
democracy, the rule of law, and stability. The U.S.'s decades-
long focus on short-term stability over rule of law has failed 
and must be reevaluated.
    Thanks for your time. I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Douyon follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Mr. Erikson, you are recognized.

 STATEMENT OF MR. DANIEL ERIKSON, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BLUE STAR 
                           STRATEGIES

    Mr. Erikson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, 
Ranking Member Yoho, for organizing this hearing and for your 
opening remarks, which I found to be quite wise. And I would 
also like to thank the other members of the committee and of 
Congress who are here today.
    I will briefly address the current situation in Haiti, but 
the focus of my remarks will be on what the United States and 
the broader international community should do to address the 
Haitian crisis in 2020. When I was in Haiti last month, one 
thing became very clear: Haiti today is experiencing its most 
profound political, economic, and social crisis in a 
generation. And it will get worse next January, when the 
Congress dissolves, there is no political accord, the economy 
withers, security worsens, corruption remains unchecked, and 
millions will face emergency levels of food insecurity.
    How did the Haiti crisis become so severe? I see three 
overlapping crises. The first is the decades-long struggle for 
Haiti to achieve a basic level of governability and a 
sustainable economy. The second crisis emerges from the 
development and decisions during the administration of 
President Jovenel Moise, who assumed office in February 2017, 
and the resulting political gridlock, the protests, and the 
country lockdown, or ``peyi lock,'' as it is known in Creole, 
that devastated the economy and jeopardized the well-being of 
millions of Haitians.
    And all of this has occurred against the backdrop of a 
third crisis, a crisis of apathy and indifference among 
Haitians international allies and partners. This is a crisis of 
apathy that I believe this committee is best positioned to 
address.
    Haiti has suffered periods of sharp deterioration before, 
coups, earthquakes, hurricanes, political unrest, and in 
virtually every instance the international community, led by 
the United States, has sought to identify core problems, work 
toward practical solutions, and reduce human suffering. Not 
every engagement has been successful, but important lessons 
have been learned.
    The first is that, if the United States does not lead, no 
one else will step up to take our place.
    Second, the results have been more successful and more 
sustainable when the U.S. has been joined by partners across 
the hemisphere as well as allies in Europe and key 
international institutions like the Organization of American 
States, the United Nations, and the multilateral development 
banks.
    The third lesson is that, while Haiti will never achieve 
political consensus, political compromise can be obtainable, 
but only when the international community joins forces and 
Haitian political leaders understand both the stakes and the 
consequences.
    I believe the time is ripe to propose new approaches. 
Without a change in course, Haiti's deterioration will continue 
in ways that will be damaging both for the Haitian people and 
for the national security of the United States and our nearest 
neighbors in the Caribbean.
    As we turn to 2020, a year that will mark the 30th 
anniversary of Haiti's first democratic election and the 10th 
anniversary of the tragic Haitian earthquake that claimed so 
many lives, Haiti must assume a more central role on the U.S. 
foreign policy agenda.
    As an initial series of steps, I recommend the following:
    The first is that the United States Secretary of State 
should convene a ministerial-level meeting of the Haiti Core 
Group, which consists of counterparts from Brazil, Canada, 
France, Germany, Spain, the European Union, the United Nations, 
and the Organization of American States, with the objective of 
formulating a comprehensive strategy to help Haiti meet 
humanitarian needs and create a pathway for negotiations with 
Haitian partners for an agreed timeframe for new congressional 
and Presidential elections.
    Second, the United States and the Core Group should, then, 
spearhead a Haiti economic strategy and humanitarian relief 
session on the margins of the IMF-World Bank annual meetings 
that will occur in April 2020, including international relief 
groups and NGO's, with the objective of identifying how to 
rapidly surge food aid and economic support into Haiti's 
hardest-hit communities and ward off the possibility of severe 
malnutrition or even famine forecast to affect up to 4 million 
Haitians in 2020.
    Third, I believe we need a comprehensive review of U.S. and 
international security assistance to Haiti, with the objective 
of strengthening the Haitian National Police and ensuring that 
funds are not diverted either into the Haitian army or 
paramilitary apparatuses that threaten the rule of law and 
human rights.
    Fourth, I believe that the U.S. should consider the 
extension of Temporary Protected Status, or TPS, for Haitians 
in the United States past the 2021 expiration date and examine 
the possibilities for humanitarian parole for needy Haitians or 
for those whose lives are at serious risk.
    And last, the U.S. Congress could consider establishing a 
short-term working group of Members to create a more active 
role for Congress to monitor developments and ensure that Haiti 
occupies a prominent place on the U.S. foreign policy agenda 
next year, with the aim of a full restoration of an elected 
democratic government as soon as possible and certainly by no 
later than 2021.
    The crisis in Haiti, in conclusion, is deep, complex, and 
cannot be solved by the Haitians alone or by the United States 
or by any other single country or international actor. However, 
I am confident the members of this committee, working together 
with the U.S. Administration and the broader international 
community, can do considerably more to help put Haiti back to a 
prominent place on the U.S. regional and international agenda.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Erikson follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Ms. Hermantin.

     STATEMENT OF MS. LEONIE MARIE HERMANTIN, DIRECTOR OF 
 DEVELOPMENT, COMMUNICATIONS, AND STRATEGIC PLANNING, SANT LA 
                  HAITIAN NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER

    Ms. Hermantin. Good morning. I would like to take this 
opportunity to thank the chair, the ranking member, and 
distinguished members of the subcommittee. I also would like to 
thank Congresswoman Wilson for the opportunity for the Haitian 
diaspora to be represented.
    This hearing is timely because Haiti is, yet again, at 
another crossroads. We face, yet again, another crisis, but 
this time it is manmade.
    I am really humbled by the great presentations made from my 
predecessors here. And so, I will not talk about the political 
situation. I will limit my remarks to our concerns from the 
diaspora's perspective, both the humanitarian crisis and the 
issue on security.
    I am here as a member of the Haitian diaspora. In the 
United States alone, there are over a million persons of 
Haitian ancestry, the majority of whom are naturalized or U.S.-
born citizens.
    Our diaspora is a very diverse one, and we do not all speak 
in one voice. But I can speak with total certainty that we are 
united on key points.
    One, that we are extremely concerned about what is 
happening in Haiti today, and that Haiti's poverty offends us 
deeply. We are hard-working people with exemplary work ethic 
and entrepreneurial spirit. Our people deserve better.
    Like many of you, we are confounded by the lack of results 
from U.S. investments in Haiti. And like the PetroChallengers 
demand to know what happened to billions of PetroCaribe funds, 
we, too, want to know about the impact of billions of U.S. 
taxpayer dollars invested in Haiti for the past 30 years. Why 
are you still calling Haiti the poorest country in the Western 
Hemisphere after our government has invested so much in so many 
programs?
    We all agree that the current status quo which supports 
corruption and violation of the rule of law must be done with. 
It is time. We all agree that Haiti needs to invest in 
education, health, infrastructure, agricultural reform, job 
creation, and constitutional reforms. We all agree on that. And 
we also believe that Haitians must resolve their problems.
    First, I will quickly talk about the humanitarian crisis, 
which has been covered in-depth here. The crisis began in 2018 
and, as you can imagine, in a fragile economy like Haiti, the 
smallest shock can upend the lives of a great majority. One of 
the ways that many in Haiti have been able to survive is with 
support of family and friends in the diaspora. According to the 
World Bank, remittances from the diaspora to Haiti reached 
record levels in 2018, amounting to $3.1 billion from $2.4 
billion in 2017, a 30 percent increase.
    This current crisis has a direct financial impact on 
Haitian-American households, as we are often the economic 
lifeline for families back home. Data indicates that 90 percent 
of remittances come from North America.
    I will skip and talk about the security crisis. This crisis 
that we are currently facing also has a lot to do with 
insecurity, and that affects us in many ways. Many of us in the 
diaspora are concerned by the inability of the Haitian 
government to guarantee our security. We are concerned about 
the gang arms. We are concerned about what appears to be an 
extremely chaotic situation, and that has forced us to cancel 
personal humanitarian and business trips to Haiti.
    When it comes to Haiti, the U.S. has made it clear that it 
believes in elections and democratic process, but has ignored 
the Haitian people's relentless demands for change. It is 
clear, paradoxically, that the U.S.'s position is more flexible 
in other parts of the world. In Hong Kong, for example, we 
proudly stand with the people and not the elected leaders. We 
believe, as Haitians and as Americans, that it is important for 
the U.S. to listen and respect the voices of the people. We 
Haitian-Americans will welcome bipartisan support for the 
Haitian people in their call for justice and social-economic 
inclusion.
    We also want to encourage you to cover cross-border 
corruptions. We know where the dollars are siphoned to. We need 
them to be brought back to Haiti.
    We also recommend that the U.S. work in partnership with 
Haitians locally and the diaspora in the United States and 
abroad, as opposed to the big, international development 
organizations.
    We need to be more creative and stop using unsuccessful 
strategies with the same actors. And I am talking about USAID, 
who proposed the same programs under different titles to get 
the same results. The Haitian people and the diaspora demand 
accountability and transparency, neither of which is always 
forthcoming under the current USAID practices.
    I will take these last seconds to sound an alarm about the 
humanitarian crisis that is in the making in Haiti. We know it 
is going to happen. And as Mr. Erikson just stated, it is going 
to be of gigantic proportion, very scary. We cannot close our 
ears, mind, or our hearts. We have to be prepared. The 
indicators do not lie.
    And again, we like talking about the policies. U.S. 
agencies in Haiti often take the route and funnel their support 
through bilateral and multilateral agencies, the usual 
suspects. We believe that a better strategy is to leverage the 
diaspora to maximize U.S. investments.
    I will end with a quote from Martin Luther King. ``Why 
should there be hunger and deprivation in any land, in any 
city, at any table, when man has the resources, the scientific 
knowhow to provide all mankind with the basic necessities of 
life? There's no deficit in resources. The deficit is in human 
will.''

    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Dr. Garrastazu.

 STATEMENT OF DR. ANTONIO GARRASTAZU, REGIONAL DIRECTOR, LATIN 
 AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN, INTERNATIONAL REPUBLICAN INSTITUTE

    Mr. Garrastazu. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member 
Yoho, distinguished members of this subcommittee, thank you for 
the opportunity to testify this morning.
    Thank you, also, I must add, for organizing a hearing on 
this topic critical to U.S. interests and the future of 
democratic governance in Haiti.
    Since the inauguration of President Noise in February 2017, 
widespread protests have become commonplace, severely impacting 
Haiti's governability. Mass protests swelled in September 2019, 
really with no end in sight. Although protests are waning and 
streets are quieter, demonstrations will likely continue, given 
the opposition's demand the President step down.
    Furthermore, the fact that elections for the entire Chamber 
of Deputies, two-thirds of the Senate, and all local officials 
should have taken place on October 27th of this year continue 
to exacerbate the ongoing political impasse and an increasingly 
fragile environment, creating a governance crisis in the new 
year.
    An unstable Haiti poses a risk to U.S. national security. 
Haiti is a large recipient of U.S. aid in the region, second 
only to Colombia. U.S. assistance to Haiti has traditionally 
been focused on health, and in Fiscal Year 2020 only 4 percent 
of the requested funding was allocated for democracy, human 
rights, and governance, while 80 percent was for health-related 
initiatives.
    Concentration of development assistance at the national 
level, however, has shown few results, as evidenced by the 
current political and economic conditions. Efforts at 
bolstering the capacity of local officials and civil society 
organizations, youth, private sector, and using the talents and 
resources of the diaspora community will provide a sustainable 
path toward Haiti's journey to self-reliance.
    Targeted foreign assistance on democracy, human rights, and 
governance should really be a priority. Geopolitically, Haiti 
serves as an important U.S. ally in the region. Haiti could be 
considered a partner in countering malign Chinese interference 
by preventing China from concluding, through its Belt and Road 
Initiative, more opaque and economically questionable 
infrastructure projects that bring unsustainable debt burdens 
in this region and increase dependence on China.
    From 2018 to 2019, there has also been a shift in Haiti's 
approach to voting in the Organization of American States by 
not recognizing the legitimacy of Nicolas Maduro as President 
of Venezuela. Haiti also taken a similar stance on the 
increasingly authoritarian government in Nicaragua.
    Building the capacity of local governments and providing 
supporting outside the capital Port-au-Prince I believe is 
critical to enhancing accountability and State presence and 
bringing institutions closer to citizens. Since 2016, IRI has 
worked with municipal officials and civil society organizations 
in Haiti's Greater North to strengthen their institutional 
capacity, promote citizen engagement, and encourage 
marginalized groups, including youth and women, to have a voice 
and participate in political processes. Developing political 
and administrative skills at the local level is much more 
effective than the current top-down approach adopted by many 
foreign assistance donors.
    IRI has also been working with local CSOs across the Grand 
North to improve advocacy and oversight of local governments. 
The institute has supported the creation of grassroots 
departmental networks with support from USAID. The creation of 
these networks is significant because of the centralized nature 
of decisionmaking in Haiti and the need to provide a voice to 
leaders outside the capital and at the local level.
    There are many political, economic, and security 
challenges, as we have discussed, in Haiti's democratic 
governance landscape that should be addressed through U.S. 
foreign assistance. A cornerstone of this strategy is 
strengthening local Haitian institutions. The following 
recommendations could be a step in the right direction:
    First, a sustained focus on local governments and 
bolstering the capacity of civil society organizations is 
necessary.
    Second, a focus on youth to serve as agents of positive 
changes in the communities is critical.
    Third, there is a need for more public opinion research to 
better understand the challenges Haitians face to effectively 
design and implement the U.S. foreign assistance programs.
    Fourth, private sector engagement has an important role to 
play to ensure the sustainability of foreign investments.
    Last, the U.S. should continue to work with Haiti's 
diaspora community as a critical element in the foreign policy 
assistance process.
    Assessing U.S. policy toward Haiti, a country of perpetual 
crisis, is never easy and really can be frustrating. Yet, U.S. 
commitment to Haiti needs to remain strong. Haiti's proximity 
to the United States, its regional geopolitical implications, 
and relevance to our national security have never been more 
important. Supporting a strong, committed, and empowered local 
governance in Haiti is but one economically sensible tool at 
the disposal of the U.S. foreign policy apparatus.
    Thank you very much, and I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Garrastazu follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Sires. Thank you very much for your comments. And now, 
we will go into questions, and I will start with myself and, 
then, the ranking member, and the other members that are here.
    This question is for Mr. Esperance. Mr. Esperance, I give 
you a great deal of credit for speaking up on human rights in 
Haiti because you are living there now. And my question is, how 
concerned are you for your safety since they have so many 
gangs?
    Mr. Esperance. I believe that the work that I am doing is a 
challenge. I never think about my own security because I can 
move around and go where I want to go. But I think about the 
people who live in popular neighborhoods that are being 
massacred; they cannot go anywhere and they cannot move around 
as I can. Fighting for human rights in Haiti is not something 
that is easy. I have been a victim, as there are many threats, 
but I will keep on working. I will keep on doing my work.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    I visited Haiti I think 2 years ago. And one of the things 
that troubled me the most is when we met with the Prime 
Minister. He has spoken about reinstating the army. And to me, 
that was an indication that he is just not serious about taking 
care of his people. I cannot believe that an island that small 
or a place that small would need an army. I pointed out to him 
that Costa Rica does not have an army and they are doing well. 
I pointed out to him that I visited the police barracks, one of 
the police barracks, and they did not even have a table to sit 
on to have lunch. His answer was that the constitution of Haiti 
requires an army. Well, a constitution can be changed and the 
people come before anything else. So, if you are going to spend 
that money on creating an army, why not invest it in the needs 
of the people? I told him that I would never support any money 
for Haiti that goes to the army in this Congress. And the 
impression now that I get from everyone here is that this 
situation could get out of hand very quickly, and I am very 
concerned for the people of Haiti.
    So, Mr. Erikson, if this situation gets out of hand 
quickly, who should step in? Because, obviously, there is 
corruption at the highest level. There are gangs roaming all 
over Haiti. Who steps in? I mean, I know you mentioned about 
the European Union and everybody else. They have got their 
issues. So, is it time for somebody else to step in?
    Mr. Erikson. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman. A 
few point I would like to make.
    The first is for a long time the United Nations had stepped 
in with the support of the U.S., Latin America, and others. And 
from 2004 to 2019, there was a U.N. peacekeeping force which 
was large at the beginning and, then, tailed off at the end. 
Now there is a smaller political mission, but there is no 
peacekeeping force in Haiti today, which is, I think, an 
important distinction from the past several years.
    Second, what Haiti really needs is a functional Haitian 
National Police and a judicial system. In fact, the Haitian 
National Police has become--and there are still problems, 
admittedly--but it has become a more professionalized and 
larger force over the last 10 years with the support of the 
United States and with the support of the United Nations.
    I do not think that the Haitian army is the correct 
approach for the Haitian government to take at this time.
    Mr. Sires. My concern--I hate to interrupt----
    Mr. Erikson. Sure.
    Mr. Sires [continuing]. But my concern is I think Mr. 
Esperance pointed out that 41 police officers were killed this 
year. I mean, who would want to join the police department when 
you have this kind of atrocity going on?
    Mr. Erikson. No, I mean, it is an excellent point. I think, 
in essence, what is required in Haiti right now is some sort of 
political solution that can alleviate the protests, restart the 
economy, and get some semblance of governance. And the concern 
I have right now is that solution is not going to emerge from 
Haiti's political actors without intensified international 
pressure and diplomatic engagement.
    It is possible that what you allude to, basically, a larger 
breakdown that forces someone to step in--I cannot name who 
that would be, internationally or otherwise--could take place, 
but I think that is still preventable, but only if we get to 
political accord and the clock is ticking, because congress, 
most of it, will cease to be in office in Haiti in early 
January. And that is going to leave a President who is already 
extremely embattled ruling by decree without any broader sense 
of political legitimacy.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    I now go to the ranking member.
    Mr. Yoho. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And I thank you all.
    Oh, does he have a question?
    Mr. Sires. Oh, I am sorry, sir.
    Mr. Yoho. Yes, Okay.
    Mr. Esperance. Haiti does not need an army right now, and 
that is for many reasons. What we need is for the authorities 
to reinforce the police and also the judicial system. And if 
they give to the police the means to do their work, they can 
actually provide security inside the country.
    Mr. Sires. My time is up. I need to go to the other 
members. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Yoho. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And I appreciate everybody's testimony.
    Dr. Garrastazu, go Gators. That is right. For everybody 
else that is not a Gator, sorry you could not get in.
    Can I ask a question of the audience? How many people are 
from Haiti or lived in Haiti?
    [Show of hands.]
    Wow, that is a good representation.
    I live in Florida. I represent Florida's 3d congressional 
District, where the University of Florida is. And I have lived 
in Florida since the early sixties. And Haiti has been an issue 
all that time. We have heard it referred to as a ``sewer 
hole''. I probably have said that myself over the years. And it 
was not President Trump that was the first to say that. We have 
heard this over and over again.
    And, Ms. Hermantin, you brought up something that the 
chairman and I said before you spoke: the people of Haiti are 
hard-working people. We have them in our State. We have them in 
our district, and I have known a lot of them. But, yet, there 
is that narrative out there that there is this problem with 
Haiti. I think, Mr. Erikson, you brought up that the world has 
become immune to Haiti because, you know, it is just Haiti; 
that is what Haiti does.
    How do we change that narrative? And I have got the Foreign 
Affairs Committee Republicans' talking points: ``The U.S. 
supports rule of law, adherence to the constitution, and 
promotion of democracy in Haiti.''
    Since approximately the last 10 years, we have invested $3 
billion as a nation--$3 billion. And I hear this all the time 
through different countries: rule of law, lack of corruption 
build democracies, and we hear this over and over again. And I 
think, Ms. Hermantin, you brought it up. It is like a broken 
record. We say these things and we check them off because we 
feel good about it, but the results do not change on the 
ground.
    And I ask, for the people of Haiti, how many have lived 
there or are from there? You are the ones, this is your 
country. What do we need to do to make a difference in Haiti 
that we have not done in the past? We can do another USAID 
project. Or what was their last thing: bring food over. How 
effective is bringing gross quantities of food, how effective 
is that to getting it out to the people that really need it?
    Go ahead.
    Ms. Hermantin. Well, bringing loads of food to the people 
is part of the structural issues that Haiti faces because Haiti 
is an agricultural nation----
    Mr. Yoho. Right.
    Ms. Hermantin [continuing]. Which produces food.
    Mr. Yoho. And we are killing it.
    Ms. Hermantin. But when you bring loads of rice, when you 
bring imported food, you destabilize----
    Mr. Yoho. Exactly, and we know that. But, yet, policymakers 
or people that run these programs do not get it.
    Ms. Hermantin. No.
    Mr. Yoho. But, yet, it is a way for us to get it out there.
    Let me go on to something because what I see, I heard 
somebody say, ``I can get you to the dance floor; how well you 
learn to dance is up to you.'' We can bring these programs, but 
if we do not have somebody that is a leader in Haiti, that is 
willing to stand up and say, ``I am going to do what is best 
for the people of Haiti,'' nothing is going to change.
    Because I forget which one--I think it was you, Dr. 
Garrastazu--staying focused on local government, staying 
focused on youth, but if there is not stable government, if 
there is not rule of law, if there is not respect for the rule 
of law or respect for the individual human rights, you can do 
all that you want, but I am going to have to come back next 
year and help you do it again, and the next year.
    We have to have somebody that is willing to stand up in 
Haiti, and the Haitian people need to demand this. We can 
support that movement, but we cannot do a top-down from America 
that says, ``You need a democracy.'' I want a stable government 
in Haiti that is best for the Haitian people that we can work 
with, that will put what is best for the people.
    Go ahead. You were going to say something?
    Mr. Garrastazu. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    No, absolutely agree. And I think for sustainability there 
needs to be political will; there need to be champions within 
the community to really bring this to bear. And I think 
strengthening the local institutions, working with the local 
governments who have the voice of the people, who see the 
people, where the people can actually see change, is very 
important. It is also very important to have these structures 
in place, so that health aid, or any other aid you want, has a 
better place from which to stand. So, these political champions 
I think are critical.
    Mr. Yoho. I am running out of time, but I would love for 
all of you to triage it. We know what the problems are. We 
cannot fix them all at one time. We have to start somewhere, 
and it has to start with some basic things and has to be rule 
of law and respect for each other. And then, we can build from 
that, and we have to have the people on the ground that are 
willing to do that. Bring those people to us, so that we can 
help them, if that is what they want for Haiti.
    Mr. Chairman, thank you, and I yield back.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Congressman Espaillat.
    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member.
    I know that very often we Members of Congress like to 
exempt ourselves of any responsibilities and feel as though we 
have not been complicit in any of this, and that the problem in 
the Caribbean and Haiti like surfaced from nothing. But the 
fact of the matter is that, historically, we supported a 
dictatorship of Francois Duvalier. We supported a dictatorship 
of Rafael Trujillo Molina. And we have up until now, also, 
supported the colonial status of Puerto Rico. So, in fact, the 
crisis in the Caribbean is very much deep rooted in what we 
have done as a country in that important part of the world, 
which is considered our fourth border--our third border.
    And so, my question is the following: given that the Miami 
Herald said that there are 500,000 illegal firearms circulating 
in Haiti, given that, also, the State Department cited that 
there are 286,000 children under the age of 15 working in what 
is considered domestic servitude, given that we just heard 
today that 41 police officers have been killed and 42 
protestors have also been killed in the recent protests, Haiti 
is at the brink of disaster.
    My question to all of you, and I would like to get a yes-
or-no answer from each of the panelists: do you feel that the 
return of the Blue Helmets will stabilize or will help to 
stabilize the situation while we work on broader reform that 
must come before an election is held? The answer from each of 
the members, yes or no, do you feel that the Blue Helmets 
should come back?
    Mr. Esperance, yes or no?
    Mr. Esperance. No.
    Mr. Espaillat. No? The answer is no? Thank you.
    Ms. Douyon.
    Ms. Douyon. No. We do not need this. What we need is 
systemic reform and Haitians are able to handle----
    Mr. Espaillat. Yes or no, Mr. Erikson?
    Mr. Erikson. Not at this point.
    Mr. Espaillat. Ms. Hermantin?
    Ms. Hermantin. No.
    Mr. Espaillat. Mr. Garrastazu?
    Mr. Garrastazu. No, not at this moment.
    Mr. Espaillat. Okay. So, all of you feel that the Blue 
Helmets, although they may have contributed to help some level 
of stability while they were there, you do not feel they should 
come back at this critical time? Okay.
    So, who are the members, Mr. Esperance, who are the 
individuals leading the armed gangs? Could you name them?
    Mr. Esperance. Well, listen, there are so many gangs, armed 
gangs in Haiti.
    Mr. Espaillat. Yes, but who are the leaders? Could you name 
me the top three gang leaders? We should know them by name. We 
should be able to identify them.
    Mr. Esperance. For instance, Arnel Joseph in the 
metropolitan area of Port-au-Prince. He recently was 
imprisoned. They are Jimmy Cherizier, ``Barbeque,'' who has 
been implicated in the five massacres and----
    Mr. Espaillat. And the third one, please? Sorry, I could 
not hear you.
    Mr. Esperance. He actually works for the government.
    Mr. Espaillat. Okay. And the third one?
    Mr. Esperance. When we say that this is somebody who works 
for the government, it is not that he directly works for the 
government.
    Mr. Espaillat. Okay. I wanted the names.
    Now let me go to Ms. Douyon. You stated in your testimony 
that the President will not be able to complete his term in 
2022. Why is that? Do you feel that there will be--that is 
totally impossible for him to complete his term? And what does 
that mean in real terms?
    Ms. Douyon. Just that the protests will keep on going 
because people are really dissatisfied with his ruling, and the 
economic situation has worsened under his term, and he has not 
taken any action to improve the situation. He has ruined any 
chance he has to have dialog, and the movement now is not a 
movement between the opposition and the President. It is about 
accountability, and we PetroChallengers, we will not accept 
that this President will represent us, because it is a shame; 
he is indicted in corruption, and we do not believe he deserves 
to stay in power and rule by decree alone without a parliament 
and without a government in January.
    Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Sires. Mr. Vargas, do you have a question?
    Congressman Levin.
    He does not have a question.
    Mr. Levin. [Speaks briefly in French.]
    Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Yoho, I thank you so much 
for holding this hearing and for the bipartisan engagement. It 
is really encouraging to me, and I can tell the witnesses and 
the audience that it is not going to be another 20 years before 
we have another hearing in this subcommittee under the 
leadership of Albio Sires. We will pay close attention to this 
crisis and do everything we can to change things.
    I have really been struck by your testimony today. I think 
25 years ago I published a law review article that I think was 
read by 12 people, but the thesis of it was that United States 
policy has failed in Haiti because we only deal with a tiny 
slice of the population who speak French, the economic elite. 
In fact, we call them ``civil society,'' and we have failed 
over many years to actually work with the broad groups of 
Haitian civil society--the neighborhood protection 
organizations, literacy organizations, the unions of teachers, 
whatever it is--the groups that, when he visited our country in 
the 19th century, Monsieur de Tocqueville said, were what set 
our country apart, not elections, but this effervescence of 
people organizing themselves.
    And so, here today, Monsieur Esperance, Madame Douyon, 
Madame Hermantin, you basically all said, do not be obsessed 
with elections right now; we have had a lot of elections in 
Haiti and they failed to change things. Elections are 
constitutive of a democracy, and we need them, but, first, we 
need to work with the Haitian people in civil society to have 
accountability and have the rule of law.
    So, let me start by asking Mr. Esperance to expand on--I 
was very troubled by your account of the status of the 
judiciary in Haiti. How endemic is the undermining of the 
independence of the judiciary and what could we do to begin to 
change that?
    Mr. Esperance. The judicial power is a power, but the 
executive branch and, also, the legislative branch consider the 
judiciary branch as a poor parent. There is not enough funds. 
There is not enough money for the reforms that are needed in 
the judicial branch.
    The one thing that is important is the Superior Council for 
the Judiciary, which is an independent body. It is the judicial 
inspection. It does not exist. It does not have the means.
    Well, indeed, as one of your colleagues, one of the 
Congressmen just mentioned, the United States spent billions of 
dollars in Haiti, but the results so far have been zero.
    Mr. Levin. For this body?
    Mr. Esperance. They spent a lot of money for judicial 
reform. The problem is that the USAID and U.S. organizations, 
when they try to come up with these programs, they do not work 
with the actors on the ground. They do not work with the people 
they should work with.
    As we are speaking right now, the U.S. Government has a big 
program when it comes to judicial reform. Meanwhile, the system 
has worsened. What we need is authorities who respect the 
judicial branch, so the branch itself can perform as it is 
supposed to.
    It has been more than 30 years that I have been working on 
human rights issues. We have never gone through that situation 
that we are going through now for the past few years.
    Mr. Levin. It has never been this past in the last 30? All 
right.
    My time has expired. Mr. Chairman, I am going to hang out, 
in the hopes that I might get to ask some more questions when 
everyone else is tired. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Congressman Buck.
    Mr. Buck. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    First, I would be glad to yield to my friend for a couple 
of minutes, if you would like to ask more questions right now.
    Mr. Levin. I will wait.
    Mr. Buck. Okay. Then, I will yield to Mr. Yoho from 
Florida.
    Mr. Yoho. Thank you. I appreciate it.
    Ms. Douyon, you were getting ready to say something when we 
were talking about it before. We know how much money we have 
put in there. For Haiti to have less than 20 percent of the 
population have running water in the 21st century in the 
Western Hemisphere, I cannot comprehend that. And so, I want 
you to go ahead and answer what you were going to answer 
before. And then, let's talk about how do we fix this and make 
a significant impact, so we do not have this hearing next year 
and say, ``USAID dropped some more food here, and thank you.''
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you.
    I wanted to add something about the judiciary system. The 
judiciary system is crippled by corruption like all the other 
institutions and it is not working for the people. On a recent 
trip in Paris, the President said that he had to hire 50 
corrupted judges in the judiciary system. This is an example of 
how severe the situation is when a President confessed to 
hiring corrupt judges. So, no one can trust the judiciary 
system to serve the people. We only believe the judiciary 
system will protect the interests of those in power.
    About the fact that most people do not have potable water 
in Haiti, this is a serious problem and it is another example 
of how people go to election just to have State resources, to 
live a lavish lifestyle, to share privilege with their friends, 
with their entourage, and not for the people.
    Mr. Yoho. Okay. Let me interrupt you there. How do we 
change that? How do we get rule of law and respect for rule of 
law?
    Ms. Douyon. The way to do that is to actually foster 
systemic reforms, so that competent and honest people can go to 
election and run the country.
    Mr. Yoho. All right. So how do you get rid of the 
corruption that prevents that?
    Ms. Douyon. One of the ways to get rid of it is to show 
that--like, for example, we are asking for a PetroCaribe trial. 
In the past, no one has faced charges for corruption, and the 
accountability movement, we want----
    Mr. Yoho. Is there a political will in the people that are 
in government to carry that out? Are they willing to do that or 
are they afraid and intimidated?
    Ms. Douyon. They do not want to do that because so many 
high-level officials are indicted in corruption. Then, in the 
reports they want to protect themselves. So, they do not want 
this to happen.
    Mr. Yoho. So, if they do not want to, how can you change 
that?
    Ms. Douyon. This is why we want the President to resign, 
because himself, he has indicted in corruption and we want to 
have a transitional government which will handle the 
PetroCaribe trial.
    Mr. Yoho. In your opinion, if you have a transitional 
government, if he steps down, what guarantees or what certainty 
do you have that you are going to have somebody that is going 
to really put the people of Haiti first?
    Ms. Douyon. We have this guarantee because of the 
accountability movement. Years ago, people like me, we were not 
on the street protesting for corruption. We are tired. We have 
had enough.
    Mr. Yoho. I would think so.
    I see my three colleagues in the back, they are smiling. 
So, they must be happy with what I am asking or they do not 
think it is going to happen.
    Ms. Douyon. It will happen because I do not think Haitians 
are ready to support any corrupt officials anymore. We have had 
enough. We have seen that it does not work, and that is why we 
are asking for----
    Mr. Yoho. But when you have people in control that are 
corrupt, they are going to suppress you, right?
    Ms. Douyon. They are trying to suppress the movement.
    Mr. Yoho. I think they have been doing it since I was a 
little kid, and that was a long time ago.
    Ms. Douyon. Yes.
    Mr. Yoho. Because we have seen what has happened since the 
sixties.
    The people of Haiti deserve to have the freedom and 
liberties that we have, that we believe in. We are all born 
with that innate quality. And if we do not change--and I want 
to talk to you, Mr. Erikson. You brought up the U.N. The U.N. 
was there for what, 12 years? Now they are small. How effective 
were they and what results do we--can we say, all right, the 
U.N. was here; they did this and look at the great results? 
Obviously, it is not water and sewer.
    Mr. Erikson. Yes, you are absolutely right, Congressman. 
So, the U.N. was present in Haiti beginning in 2004 in the 
middle of another crisis, when President Aristide was ousted, 
and then, remained through the period of the earthquake, and 
really drew back the peacekeeping mission substantially in 2017 
and transitioned to a political office in 2019.
    The legacy of the U.N. in Haiti is very mixed. Clearly, 
there was success in maintaining the peace during that time, 
because Haiti did not have this widespread social civic 
breakdown that has taken place in the last couple of years. And 
there is a Haitian National Police, which Mr. Esperance 
referred to, which has become a more positive force, more 
accountable. It is bigger. There was about 5,000----
    Mr. Yoho. I am going to run out of time here in 3 seconds.
    Mr. Erikson. All right. There was 5,000 police in Haiti in 
2010. Today, there is 15,000.
    Mr. Yoho. Thank you.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Congressman Castro.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairman.
    Dr. Garrastazu, you mentioned in your remarks that you 
believe that Haiti is a national security concern for the 
United States. How do you mean that?
    Mr. Garrastazu. Thank you, Mr. Castro.
    Well, its proximity to the U.S., being so close to my home 
State of Florida. Its geopolitical implications that I had 
mentioned; the fact that they maintain a partnership with 
Taiwan is something to really consider because it is forcing 
China to keep away from our borders, which is very important 
right now. The Dominican Republic is working closely with 
China. El Salvador is just now working closely with China. 
Panama is working closely with China. And China is really all 
over Haiti, trying to dabble and trying to get them toward 
their sphere. That is something very important to consider.
    And also, multilaterally, it is very important that Haiti 
for the past several years has always sided with CARICOM, with 
the regional block, and it is now taking a stance against 
Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela, so something to consider. And they 
have also taken a stronger stance against the authoritarian 
government of Ortega in Nicaragua.
    Mr. Castro. Sure. So, I guess your comment was geopolitical 
in nature?
    Mr. Garrastazu. It is geopolitically and strategically 
correct.
    Mr. Castro. Sure. No, and I understand. I just think that 
in the past we have seen migration from Haiti, folks seeking 
refuge and asylum in the United States. And oftentimes, when we 
receive people from nations like Haiti or Mexico or Central 
America, there is a language that develops around those people 
that can be harmful to the way Americans think about who these 
people are. We see it with Central American migrants now where 
there is an effort--and I am not including you in that--I am 
just saying there is an effort to try to make these people out 
to be dangerous or people that we should fear. And again, I am 
not saying that is your intention.
    But Haiti has confronted, has dealt in the past with what I 
would consider bad U.S. foreign policy posture; also leaders 
who did not serve the people of Haiti, but served themselves, 
and also natural disasters, the most recent of which, the 2010 
earthquake, the country, they lost somewhere between 100,000, 
maybe 250,000, people that they are still trying to rebuild 
from. And so, I ask that and I certainly respect your answer on 
the geopolitics and the significance, and the challenge that 
China poses in the Caribbean and Latin America. But I also want 
us to be mindful that when people, whether in the past or in 
the future, seek asylum here, that most of all they are coming 
in desperation, oftentimes oppression, and are not dangerous 
people in and of themselves.
    Mr. Garrastazu. Oh, yes, sir. And coming from the State of 
Florida, I think I have a unique perspective on that. My family 
is Cuban-American.
    Mr. Castro. Sure.
    Mr. Garrastazu. So, they have been here since 1960 and 
really have contributed to what south Florida is today. Growing 
up with Haitians, with Venezuelans, with Mexicans, I know the 
positive impact that they can have on the community. And I 
think I am also one of those prospects. My family came, worked 
really hard, and I am sitting before Congress today, which is 
very cool.
    But understand there needs to be a change of narrative as 
well as the positive aspects of what they are doing. For 
example, what is going on in Venezuela and Colombia with the 
migration crisis, Venezuelans are really putting forth a lot in 
that community. So, we need to really speak about that positive 
aspect as well--it is not just negative--and the contributions 
they can make to society.
    Mr. Castro. Yes. Thank you.
    I yield back, Chairman.
    Mr. Sires. Congressman Smith.
    Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, and thank you, Mr. Chairman 
and Mr. Yoho, for calling this very important hearing.
    Thank you for your testimoneys.
    Let me just focus for a moment on the issue of anti-human 
trafficking, both labor and sex trafficking. More than a decade 
ago, I met with a woman named Nancy Rivard, an airline flight 
attendant with American Airlines. And she and others 
recognized, coming out of Haiti, that there were a number of 
children who were basically unaccompanied except by some guy 
that just did not look like there was a relationship 
whatsoever, and contacted law enforcement.
    And, lo and behold, they found out there was a trafficking 
ring, a pedophile ring, of huge proportions. Over 60 children 
had been trafficked. When they got law enforcement involved, 
they were able to stop it, make arrests. But the 60-plus kids 
that had been so horribly mistreated were still lost into a 
terrible system.
    I actually wrote a law, the Frederick Douglass Act that was 
signed into law earlier this year, on anti-human trafficking. I 
also wrote the original Trafficking Victims Protection Act. But 
the Douglass Act has specific language in it, and it was born 
out of what we learned from Nancy Rivard and others, that gives 
prioritization to U.S. use of airlines for Federal employees, 
if they have a protocol in place to spot trafficking, to be 
situationally aware.
    So, I would like to ask you, if you could, where are we in 
terms of the Haitian government and its record? The TIP Report 
this year upgraded Haiti to Tier 2. It had been much worse off 
for years. They do have a new national plan, as you know, that 
is in effect. Although the recommendations from our Trafficking 
in Persons Office is that they prioritize that national plan, 
they underscore the fact that there needs to be the training of 
police, prosecutors, judges; that there is a great deal of non-
information/misinformation about the nature of trafficking. So, 
it is not prioritized by law enforcement. Even training of 
labor investigators, so that they can look for labor 
trafficking, both in Haiti and those that are sent elsewhere.
    If you could speak to the issue of trafficking, whoever 
might want to take it, or several of you? Is Haiti moving in 
the right direction? The TIP Report suggests, yes, but they are 
nowhere near where they ought to be to protect the children of 
Haiti as well as women and others who are exploited.
    Ms. Douyon. I know that efforts have been made to tackle 
this issue, but I will say that this is all part of a bigger 
problem, which is impunity, weakness of law enforcement, and 
worsening economic conditions. And to solve this problem, we 
need to get to the root cause and prevent officials from 
diverting money that is meant to fight poverty and allow 
parents to have the resources to raise their kids so they will 
not be that exposed to human trafficking.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Smith. Yes?
    Ms. Hermantin. From the perspective of the Haitian-American 
community in Miami, for example, we know, neighborhood-based 
organizations such as the one I work with, that there are a lot 
of young people who are living in deplorable conditions within 
households in the Haitian community. These are the children who 
migrated, who are sent by parents. Again, because of the 
economic situation, they were sent for themselves and to take 
care of their families back home.
    But these young people are in a semi-state of servitude. 
Thank God they go to school, but they live in really horrible 
conditions at home, and social service agencies try their best 
to attend to their needs because this is sort of the route to 
gang activity in urban centers in Miami. So, we do notice that 
there are such situations, it is clearly documented, but we 
have no power over what happens in Haiti.
    Mr. Smith. Yes?
    Mr. Esperance. All this issue of human trafficking, it 
occurs with the absence of the rule of law. Today in Haiti, 
human life does not have any importance or the authorities. 
What we need is a strong State where all the institutions are 
working and they are doing exactly what they are supposed to 
do, like a well-healed machine. There is no real effort on the 
side of the authorities to address these issues and to resolve 
them.
    Even if the current President you have now had the 
opportunity to finish his term in 2022, there is no opportunity 
to really have elections with him that can be credible. In 
other words, Haiti will have to go through a transition, no 
matter what. And so, during that transition we will be able to 
address all those issues, impunity, the question of the rule of 
law, and so forth.
    Mr. Smith. Mr. Esperance, thank you very much. Thank you 
all.
    I think my time is up.
    Mr. Sires. Congressman Phillips.
    Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Mr. Yoho, for 
calling this hearing.
    And welcome to our witnesses. Bonjour et bienvenue.
    The failures of the Haitian political system have been well 
documented, not just for generations, but literally over two 
centuries, I think it is fair to say. And we have a tendency to 
try to treat symptoms and not address underlying disease. I 
think that underlying disease is surely corruption, as we have 
spoken about briefly today. So, I would like to start with 
that.
    Ms. Douyon, you spoke briefly about it, but I would like 
some specifics about how the United States of America can use 
its resources, both financial and human, to start taking steps 
to improve governance, restore the faith and trust in 
government, and address the underlying disease.
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you.
    If the U.S. wants to support a sustainable way forward, 
like I said, it may take its lead from the Haitians of its 
society. You mentioned it. We are treating the symptom. We are 
going to the root to do a cause of the problem. And now, the 
problem is that we want to fight corruption and get rid of 
corrupt officials.
    And the steps are: get this government to resign. Have the 
PetroCaribe trial. Make reforms.
    Mr. Phillips. So, step one is getting the government to 
resign?
    Ms. Douyon. Yes, because there is no way a corrupt 
President can do any good for this country, except protecting 
himself.
    Mr. Phillips. So, working with Moise and his government is 
a non-start?
    Ms. Douyon. It is impossible. It is morally impossible as 
well.
    Mr. Phillips. Okay. No. 2?
    Ms. Douyon. And we need to get a trial, and we need to get 
constitutional reform, change in the electoral system, so we 
can have fair and open elections.
    Mr. Phillips. Let's stop there for a moment.
    Ms. Douyon. Yes.
    Mr. Phillips. How do we begin that initiative?
    Ms. Douyon. With a transitional government with a clear 
mandate. There are actually civil society organizations who are 
working on a roadmap for the transitional government.
    Mr. Phillips. Okay.
    Ms. Douyon. And there is a general consensus on what this 
transitional government should do. And the priorities are the 
trial and elections, fair, open election with a new electoral 
system, a new electoral council, because the one we have now 
cannot organize an election. It does not respect the legal rule 
and I think its term is over as well. Therefore, we need those 
basic changes, so we can have honest people, competent people 
to run for office and enter a new system. We need systemic 
reforms and we definitely need it now.
    Mr. Phillips. Is anything that the United States is doing 
right now affecting any of those three initiatives?
    Ms. Douyon. Stop supporting the Moise government because 
the way it is, the U.S. Government is encouraging dialog and it 
does not work. There is no way we can have dialog with a 
corrupt President who has ruined any chances he had to have 
dialog. Even when it was not about his resignation, he ruined 
it.
    The United States is pushing to the formation of a new 
government. It will not work. We cannot ask people to enter a 
government with a corrupt President and direct it in 
corruption. There is no way we can ask people to do that.
    And he had a chance with a Prime Minister from the 
opposition, Mr. Ceant, and he would not. So, he has had two 
governments and it did not work. He had the majority in the 
parliament. Yet, he could not form a government. There is no 
way we can trust him to handle anything.
    Mr. Phillips. Okay. I appreciate it.
    Mr. Erikson, I would like to talk about our diplomacy in 
Haiti. Are staff drawdowns affecting--as I presume the answer 
is yes--our ability to affect diplomacy and do our business, if 
you will, in Haiti?
    Mr. Erikson. The U.S. Embassy in Haiti is functioning in an 
extremely challenging environment in terms of security. In 
terms of the staff footprint, I do not know if there have been 
many changes, but there have been periods where people, for 
example, have not been able to have their family members there 
with them.
    And then, I would just say, in general, there has been 
fewer visitors. There have been a few high-level visitors 
recently, but you are not seeing perhaps the level of 
diplomatic attention from Washington, either.
    Mr. Phillips. And what would that level of diplomatic 
attention look like in a perfect world?
    Mr. Erikson. Sure. Well, one of the proposals that I made 
in my testimony is to have the Secretary of State convene in 
the first quarter of next year all of the key international 
actors engaged with Haiti, which is known as the Haiti Core 
Group, which includes countries from Europe, Latin America, 
Canada, and international institutions, to try to lay out what 
a framework would be for the international community to help 
assist with a political solution and, also, address the 
humanitarian needs.
    Mr. Phillips. Okay. Thank you.
    Mr. Chair, I yield the balance of my time.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Congressman Vargas.
    Mr. Vargas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    And I thank the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Yoho. In fact, 
Mr. Yoho said that we have to respect the rule of law; we have 
to have the rule of law, and are we willing to carry it out?
    So, this Saturday my oldest daughter and I, we drove to 
Tijuana to the area called El Chaparral, where people present 
themselves for asylum. Now the law is such that a person 
fleeing from persecution should be able to go up to the 
American side of the border, present themselves, and then, 
ultimately, have their case adjudicated to see if they have 
legitimate fear to be able to, then, gain asylum and stay in 
the United States.
    Now there are a number of people that were there, and there 
is this queuing system that prevents people from actually doing 
that. So, you physically literally cannot get to the American 
side of the border and ask for that because you are prevented 
from doing that by this fence that has been put up by the 
Mexican government, in conjunction with the American 
government.
    The American government, we only allow a few people. In 
fact, there is this book that they have and they only call a 
few people from it. And there was this beautiful couple that 
turned out to be from Haiti. It was a husband, a wife, and a 
little girl. And I could not help but think at this time of the 
year of another family 2,000 years ago that was looking for 
refuge that I think had a great case, and I think here also. 
But they never even had the opportunity.
    In fact, there was someone there, thankfully, who was able 
to explain to them you have to put your name on this list, and 
maybe 6 months down the line, or 4 months down the line, your 
name will be called. You have to come here to hear your name. 
Then, you can apply for asylum.
    Well, we should follow our own law. We should be willing to 
respect the rule of law. That family should have had the 
opportunity to present themselves and make their case for 
asylum. Under the conditions that you are talking about today, 
I think that family would have made a great case to say, ``We 
fear for our lives. We fear for our livelihood. We fear for the 
child that we have with us here,'' and be able to stay in the 
United States under our law. But we are not willing to do that.
    So, when we hear about this notion that people should be 
able to follow the rule of law and we should respect the rule 
of law, we should begin by respecting our own rules, our own 
laws, and allowing that little family to be able to present 
themselves appropriately, as they wanted to. They did not even 
know it--now, again, it gets more complicated because they did 
not speak Spanish and they did not speak English--so, they did 
not even know how to do this when they showed up. Again, I 
think we should respect the rule of law.
    That being said, I mean, I am very much in favor, of 
course, of us providing greater assistance to Haiti. We have to 
do that. I am in favor of that. I know there is corruption and 
there is a lot of other things. There always is in the world. 
But, at the same time, we should respect our own laws, our own 
rules, because we know that this is going to happen around the 
world. That is why we have always been a refuge for people 
seeking this type of help, this type of asylum. That is how 
most of the people probably in this room got here.
    And so, again, we should respect our own rule of law. We 
should respect our own rules and give an opportunity. We should 
look at that, Mr. Chairman. There is a grave injustice 
happening along the border, especially for people that do not 
speak Spanish or English.
    And I have to say, too, my daughter, the reason she was 
with me, she works at Casa Cornelia, which attempts to get 
asylum for people that arrive in--it began with girls and 
women, and now families, that have been trafficked. And how, 
they are seeking asylum.
    In particular, I think people of African descent get 
discriminated against. They are coming through a nation that is 
Mexican, obviously, that speaks Spanish. And oftentimes, they 
do not know the language, Cameroonians especially, in 
particular. But we should respect our own rule of law.
    So, again, I am very much in favor of us helping Haiti, and 
I am here to listen. But, at the same time, I am also here to 
say we are not doing it. We are very good to cast aspersions on 
other countries; they should follow the rule of law. We do not 
do it. We do not follow the international law. We do not follow 
our own rules.
    Mr. Erikson, what do you think about it? I mean, do not you 
think the conditions exist there to be able to apply for asylum 
here for some people with a legitimate reason?
    Mr. Erikson. Yes, I do. And I really appreciate your 
commentary and observations.
    One of the recommendations that I made in my testimony was 
the extension of Temporary Protected Status for Haitians in the 
United States past the current 2021 expiration date and the 
examination of possibilities for humanitarian parole for maybe 
Haitians or political asylum for those whose lives are at 
serious risk.
    Mr. Vargas. And I hope we do it.
    My time has expired here. But, again, I thank you very 
much, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity.
    Mr. Sires. Congressman Meeks.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for 
holding this very important hearing today.
    And I thank all the panel members who are sitting there and 
my colleagues.
    As you may know, yesterday myself and eight other Members 
of Congress, many of whom are sitting on the dais today, wrote 
to Secretary Pompeo and Administrator Green to express our deep 
concern regarding the prolonged political and humanitarian 
crisis in Haiti. We know that people are dying on a daily 
basis, some because of no food, others because of the violence 
that has taken place.
    And what I am trying to find out, and according to the 
State Department, U.S. policy toward Port-au-Prince focuses, 
they tell me, on strengthening institutions and infrastructure 
for sustainable development and democratic foundations and 
poverty alleviation. So, that is what we were told by the State 
Department.
    So, my question would be, then, to you initially, since 
most of you or all of you have been on the ground and looking, 
just to ask you, what is the perception among Haitians of the 
U.S. Embassy and the U.S. assistance to Haiti?
    Yes?
    Ms. Douyon. The perception is that the U.S. Embassy is 
supporting the President, and the President does everything he 
can to show that he has the strong support of the U.S. Embassy 
and the U.S. Government. And we believe that the answer from 
the embassy to the PetroCaribe movement, for example, isn't as 
strong as it should be. It is the very first time that there is 
a strong accountability movement in the country, and it does 
not receive the recognition it should.
    The response is better on the human rights side because 
they condemned the last massacre and all, but they have been 
mainly calling for dialog, which I mentioned before is not 
possible. They have been calling for the formation of a new 
government, which people do not believe is the solution because 
the government, the President is corrupt and other people he 
appointed before have like corruption suspicion upon them. And 
they have been calling for election, but I think my colleague 
mentioned it before, we have the Dermalog scandal related to 
the identification called the voter cards. It did not respect 
the rule. It did not have the validation from the Court of 
Auditors, and it does not help to promote elections with a 
government that is using an illegal card, basically, to have 
this election.
    And it seems like they are pushing for election either way, 
whether it is a fair election or not. It is like we are 
promoting, the U.S. is supporting democracy, but not democracy 
itself, but sign of democracy, as long as we have a government, 
no matter the way it was formed. No matter the type of people 
in this government, it is democracy. No matter the kind of 
election we have, as long as we have an election to prove that 
we are respecting democracy, it is Okay. But we are tired of 
this and we believe we should not keep going this way because 
it isn't better.
    Mr. Meeks. It is your feeling that there should not be any 
cooperation with the Moise government because they could not 
have a fair and democratic election. And I just want to check 
to make sure that everybody on the panel feels the same way. Do 
they think that is accurate? Or is there any way to engage, but 
make sure that we do have a fair and impartial election?
    Ms. Hermantin. Thank you.
    The idea of fair and democratic elections, also a construct 
that is not necessarily well implemented in Haiti. Let's look 
at how these elections are funded. How are individuals 
incentivized to run for office, to create parties? Before 
elections, you have parties just pop up out of nowhere because 
people know that elections will come with funding. Each party--
if I am wrong, please let me know--each person or each party 
that presents candidates will receive some funding from the 
international community. So, this obsession with the electoral 
process, one-man/one-vote elections, has created a cottage 
industry of bogus parties that come up and that attract not the 
most civic-minded people to come and run.
    So, when we have elections where we have 75 individuals 
representing 75 parties running for office, someone should say, 
what is wrong with this picture? What monster have we created, 
all in the name of, quote/unquote, ``democracy''?
    And so, the incentivization of politics or elections has 
sort of created this monster that attracts sometimes the worse 
elements that we have to offer. So, the idea that you have 
elections and that is proof that democracy is healthy in Haiti 
is not really accurate. You cannot say that, well, we have 
elections, so everything should be Okay. Why cannot you attract 
the right people? The process itself attracts the wrong people.
    Ms. Douyon. And if I may add something?
    Mr. Sires. Thank you. We have four other guests.
    Congresswoman Frederica Wilson from Florida?
    Ms. Wilson. Thank you, Chairman Sires, and thank you for 
holding this hearing. This is long overdue.
    And I am pleased to have my constituent and Haitian 
community leader, Leonie Hermantin, testify today. And I asked 
you to invite her to testify at this hearing because my 
district is home to one of the Nation's largest Haitian 
communities, which I have had the privilege of representing in 
Congress and in the Florida legislature.
    In October, Leonie and other Haitian community leaders 
joined Speaker Pelosi and me for a roundtable on Haiti. And one 
of those panelists, Attorney Karen Andre, who worked in the 
Obama Administration, is in the audience. Raise your hand, 
Karen.
    Generations of Haitians passionately expressed their 
heartfelt concerns about the ongoing crisis. They were livid. 
They made it abundantly clear that Haiti's sovereignty and 
right to self-determination must not be undermined. They also 
shared concerns about the Trump Administration's continued 
support for President Moise and inadequate calls for 
accountability for the myriad of grievances that have compelled 
Haitians to take to the streets and march and protest.
    We cannot remain silent when there are credible allegations 
of corruption, human rights abuses, and other atrocities. We 
cannot remain silent when thousands of ambitious Haitian 
children, especially young girls, are unable to access an 
education, which is their only ladder of opportunity. And we 
cannot remain silent when more than 3 million Haitians are 
facing a hunger crisis. We must speak up and we must listen.
    That is why today's hearing is so important and so timely. 
We have had the opportunity to hear directly from Haitians who 
are living in Haiti and in the diaspora, and united in fighting 
for a stronger, more prosperous Haiti. Their testimoneys have 
given us valuable insight about the impact of U.S. policies on 
Haiti.
    And the Miami Herald editorial board said that we must 
invest in Haiti. The international community must invest in 
Haiti. We have to do something and not just listen. I heard Mr. 
Erikson, and we need to listen, direct, and we need to act.
    I hope this is just the first of many congressional 
hearings on Haiti. For too long, there have been no hearings on 
Haiti.
    Thank you, Chairman Sires, for listening to us and 
engaging.
    Ms. Hermantin, thank you for traveling from Miami and for 
your continued leadership in the Haitian community.
    You portrayed the Haitian diaspora as an underutilized 
asset and recommended that the U.S. work in partnership with 
the Haitians locally and diaspora experts, as opposed to the 
big international development organizations. How should USAID 
and other U.S. agencies demonstrably leverage the expertise of 
the Haitian diaspora to maximize the effectiveness of U.S. 
investments in Haiti? And what do you consider as a suitable 
mechanism to facilitate this kind of partnership that you 
envision?
    Ms. Hermantin. Thank you for the question. I often dread 
talking about USAID from the diaspora's perspective because we 
have seldomly seen a willingness to fully engage the Haitian 
diaspora. We, as I said, invest $3.1 billion in Haiti, and yet, 
we are never invited as partners, as investors around the table 
when it comes to creating programs that target us.
    There was a program right after the earthquake called the 
Haitian Diaspora Marketplace. It was a 2-year program and its 
goal was to provide financial and technical assistance to 
members of the Haitian diaspora, but it was led from a bank in 
Haiti and it was supposed to give technical assistance to 
people who live in the United States. So, it really did not 
make too much sense and it really did not work very well. It 
was not very successful.
    There was another effort called LEAD. Again, its goal was 
to attract investment in small and medium-sized enterprises 
based in Haiti, but it was implemented by one of these large 
organizations. Again, that did not successfully engage us.
    The idea is you put in lots of lip service to programs 
engaging the diaspora, but if you do not engage us, if you do 
not come to us, come to find us and talk to us, it is not going 
to work.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you. Thank you. Can I just get to the 
other member?
    Ms. Hermantin. Oh, sorry.
    Mr. Sires. They were waiting long.
    Congresswoman Lee.
    Ms. Lee. First, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this hearing. 
I am formally a member for many years of this committee, the 
full committee and subcommittee. So, thank you so much for 
inviting us back to be here with you.
    Once again, I just have to say my heart continues to ache 
for the people of Haiti. And I want to associate myself with 
many of the remarks that have been made today.
    Now, for many years, myself personally, since the 
seventies, I have worked in a variety of ways to support the 
Haitian people and have, of course, visited Haiti many times 
prior to my being a Member of Congress and now serving as a 
Member of Congress.
    Let me just frame this within a couple of perspectives. I 
am vice chair of the subcommittee that funds all of our foreign 
aid, USAID. So, thank you for your response on the question 
from Congresswoman Wilson.
    But we have helped spearhead and guide the humanitarian 
U.S. assistance efforts after the deadly earthquake. We have 
worked to improve and strengthen health care. We supported 
efforts to strengthen governance, and we have always stood to 
protect the human rights of the Haitian people. We have ensured 
funding for emergency assistance through USAID, ensuring that 
that is available, and we included important language in the 
appropriations bill requiring a report on the La Saline 
massacre, including the human rights abuses. We have also 
required our government to condition funding for the central 
government of Haiti on human rights abuses and governance 
issues.
    The ongoing political and economic crisis in Haiti has led 
to, we all know, as you have said, a food crisis. Schools and 
businesses are being shut down for weeks, vital resources 
becoming scarce.
    I share that because there are many, many efforts that all 
of us have mounted, and then, still, we see what has taken 
place in Haiti. In many ways, it appears to be a failed state.
    Now I am one to believe that the U.S.'s role has not been a 
very positive role, laying out everything I just laid out and 
more, because of the structural issues and because of our 
history of undermining in many respects the Haitian people in 
terms of their freedom, their liberation, and the empowerment 
of the Haitian people.
    I know for a fact that a lot of the USAID money has gone to 
NGO's that are not Haitian NGO's. None of the Haitian 
businesses in the diaspora, as you said, have been brought to 
the table.
    And so, I am wondering, first of all, what do you think we 
can do here as Members of Congress, in addition to what we have 
done, to address the structural issues and to make sure that 
the United States becomes a positive actor in this? And then, 
second, as it relates to the incidences, the massacre really in 
La Saline, what is the status of that? Has anyone been brought 
to justice? Has anyone been prosecuted in that massacre?
    Mr. Esperance. Like I mentioned earlier, all financial 
crimes or other kinds of crimes that have been committed, the 
Haitian government has blocked the kinds of investigation at 
the judicial level. In other words, if you consider the foul on 
the La Saline massacre, there has not been any indictment that 
has been issued and the criminals are going about their 
business without any problem. One of the gangs with Jimmy 
Cherizier that was involved in that massacre is continuing to 
act the same way in other massacres.
    Earlier, the question was asked about the Haitian 
perception of the U.S. Embassy in Haiti. We can see from 2017 
up until March 2019 U.S. authorities have given unquestionable 
support to the Haitian authorities. With the letter signed by 
104 Congressman that was delivered in March of this year to the 
embassy, the embassy has begun to shift, to modify in some of 
these fouls; for instance, La Saline.
    U.S. authorities are putting a lot of pressure against a 
lot of people who are demonstrating against the government in 
power. They cancel a lot of the visas of many of them and they 
also apply a lot of pressure on them.
    In the meantime, Haitian authorities who are involved in 
money laundering, they are being protected. They never do 
anything against them. There is no sanction against them.
    Recently, the OAS and the government have come up with a 
program to try and cleanup corruption within the government.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Congresswoman Pressley.
    Mr. Esperance. Thirty seconds, 30 seconds?
    Mr. Sires. All right, go ahead. Finish up.
    Mr. Esperance. If the U.S. Government puts its money in 
that program, it is going to be a waste. It is going to be 
wasting money. It is true that they want to reinforce the 
institutions that are fighting against corruption, but you have 
to do it with authorities, with people who are not corrupt, 
with authorities that are destroying these institutions like 
your current authorities are doing right now.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you. I do not mean to cut you off, but we 
have other members that have been waiting for a long time.
    Congresswoman Pressley.
    Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for waving me onto 
the committee for this critically important conversation today.
    I am here for two reasons, one in my official capacity as 
the Congresswoman representing the Massachusetts 7th 
congressional District, which boasts the third-largest 
population of the Haitian diaspora in the country. But I am 
also here, if I am being fully authentic, as a black woman in 
gratitude. A parent is a child's first teacher. My mother did 
not read me nursery rhymes, but she made sure early on that I 
knew the words of Toussaint Louverture, ``I was born a slave, 
but Nature gave me the soul of a free man.''
    The people of Haiti inspired me in my lifetime of work to 
fight against the colonialism and for the liberation and 
freedom of black people and all people around the globe. And I 
thank you for that role.
    I also proudly boast the only pre-K, dual-language program 
in the country in the Toussaint L'Ouverture Academy; and 
finally, trail-blazing, historic Haitian-American leaders like 
Marie St. Fleur, Linda Dorcena Forry, Jean Bradley 
Derenoncourt, and Gerly Adrien, elected more recently.
    So, what is happening in Haiti is of specific and urgent 
import to the people that I represent, dealing with the fact 
that they cannot travel back to the funerals of their loved 
ones due to the violence; the fact that students cannot go to 
school; that hospitals do not have enough oxygen for critically 
ill patients seeking care.
    Just last month, I held a roundtable with Haitian 
stakeholders in my district to hear directly from them about 
how the violence has impacted their families and how the U.S. 
can play a role in helping to forge a path for long-term peace 
and stability for the people of Haiti. They stressed the need 
for security measures to keep their loved ones in Haiti safe 
and strong accountability measures to prevent fraud and to hold 
bad actors to account.
    Some of my line of questioning has already been asked. So, 
I just have a couple of things with the time that I have 
remaining. The first is, can you speak to how has the closing 
of the USCIS field office in Port-au-Prince affected the 
situation in Haiti? Anyone who would like to comment on that?
    Mr. Esperance. I am not sure this program really helped a 
lot of Haitians. It was a program that was established to help 
people who were applying for political asylum and, also, to 
bring family members.
    Ms. Pressley. Okay.
    Mr. Esperance. There is not a lot of people who are 
applying nowadays for political asylum because what the U.S. 
Government has done is make it so that it takes much longer, 
like 3 years-four years before you actually get even an 
interview.
    Ms. Pressley. Okay. All right. Thank you.
    And then, did you want to elaborate?
    Ms. Douyon. I want to add something, but not exactly 
related to your question, but related to the introduction you 
made. My friends, my colleagues in the PetroChallenge movement, 
the movement for accountability, we follow you closely in Haiti 
and we are inspired by those women in Congress here in the 
United States. And one of our concerns is that in Haiti we 
cannot do the same and women cannot run for office as easily as 
it is done elsewhere because, to win an election in Haiti, you 
need support from a gang and you need dirty money.
    And here, I will take the opportunity to say this is also 
one of the reasons we are having this movement, because in the 
future we would like to see people like you playing this role, 
taking a role in parliament and help the country, just like you 
are doing here.
    Ms. Pressley. Thank you.
    To that point, are there any leaders of the opposition that 
you could name? And could you speak to how a transitional 
government could actually--how do we ensure that that does not 
contribute to the chaos and actually does get Haiti on a 
pathway to peace?
    Ms. Douyon. I think the first way will be to ensure that 
civil society plays a really strong role instead of dealing 
with the crisis as a crisis between the President and the 
opposition. Because the youth, the people from the 
accountability movement, we do not believe that all those 
politicians who will want to present to resign are actually fit 
to replace him or to be in charge of the country.
    We want to take the process really seriously and have a 
vetting. We do not want any corrupt officials, whether it is 
from the opposition or from the government party, to be in 
place. And we think that society, the youth, the 
PetroChallengers have to play a key role if we want to move 
forward and avoid chaos.
    We do not want chaos. We do not want an opponent to just 
replace the President. It is not about taking power and just 
keep mining their own business. It is about changing our 
country. It is about doing something new. It is about finally 
taking Haiti away from this mess, if I can say it this way.
    Ms. Pressley. Thank you.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Talking about strong women, Congresswoman Waters.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you very much.
    First, allow me to thank my colleague, Chairman Albio 
Sires, for organizing this hearing entitled, ``Haiti on the 
Brink: Assessing U.S. Policy Toward a Country in Crisis,'' and 
for inviting me to participate. Haiti is, indeed, a country in 
crisis and we are long overdue for an honest assessment of the 
policies of the United States toward Haiti as this crisis has 
developed.
    In April of this year, I led a delegation to Haiti which 
met with residents of the La Saline neighborhood of Haiti's 
capital and surrounding areas who described acts of 
unconscionable violence that occurred in November 2018. The La 
Saline massacre resulted in the deaths of at least 71 
civilians, in addition to the rape of at least 11 women and the 
looting of more than 150 homes. Survivors expressed concern 
that government-connected gangs, working with police officers, 
carried out the attacks to punish La Saline for participation 
in anti-government protests.
    Now what are these protests all about? We cannot escape 
dealing with the reality of why people are in the streets. And 
I have to disclose that I have supported Haiti in so many ways 
for so many years, and I am a big supporter still of Lavalas. 
President Aristide is not involved in this. He has a university 
that is doing fine. But these massive demonstrations must be 
talked about in realistic ways.
    These protests were sparked by the disappearance of 
millions of dollars of assistance provided to Haiti by 
Venezuela under the PetroCaribe program. Through PetroCaribe, 
Venezuela sold oil to Haiti and allowed them to defer the 
payments for up to 25 years and pay a low rate of interest on 
the debt. Haiti was supposed to sell the oil and use the money 
to pay for social programs.
    Instead, at least $2 billion went missing. That is almost a 
quarter of Haiti's total economy for 2017. A government report 
delivered to the Haitian Senate by official auditors on May 
31st highlighted the corruption. Haitians began demonstrating 
against the government because they knew they never saw the 
benefits of the PetroCaribe program.
    Now, having said that, our government tends to support 
whomever is the President, whoever is the leader of Haiti, no 
matter what. I have been through this through so many 
Presidents starting with Papa Doc and Baby Doc, Preval, 
Martelly, Latortue, and now, Moise.
    I do not know why this President cannot be responsible, 
along with Martelly, for the accountability of the PetroCaribe 
money. The demonstrations are not going to stop. And for those 
who go down there and who send messages, ``Everybody ought to 
get together and they need to come together and they need to 
talk about this,'' there is not going to be any talk. The 
demonstrations are going to go on until this President either 
comes forward and gives some accountability for what has 
happened to this money, and he can bring Martelly along with 
him. Because you all sitting there know what is going on.
    In addition to that, if he cannot do that, they are going 
to demand that he steps down. Now we understand Haiti is a 
sovereign nation. We cannot tell it what to do, but the United 
States and USAID, and everybody that is holding up Moise and 
Martelly and others who are responsible for this money, need to 
come out and talk about this issue.
    Ladies and gentleman, the problem is governance. People 
like to take food and they like to take clothing, and they like 
to support these non-government agencies, but that is not what 
we ought to be doing. We ought to be doing everything that we 
can to call for accountability.
    I want to tell you again, I have been through all of this. 
I love Haiti. I support it. I know that governance is needed. 
And do not forget, I have been through when President Aristide 
was exiled twice, and Clinton got him back once. And then, the 
last time he came back, I went and got him in the Central 
African Republic. We rented a plane and went up and brought him 
back. And he stayed in Africa until he came back. When Baby Doc 
came back, he came back. So, we know this history and we know 
the history of everybody taking advantage of Haiti whenever 
they have the opportunity.
    So, what we need to do is put pressure on the President. 
The President has not came out. He has not talked about what is 
going on. He has not tried to answer anybody. All that he has 
done, in my estimation, is been responsible for some of the 
violence as he tried to quiet the people of La Saline. And many 
of them are Lavalas, not all of them, but many of them are. And 
I support the idea that they can demand from this President and 
this government accountability.
    So, having said all of that, we should stand ready to 
support whatever needs to be done for a transitional 
government, whatever needs to be done for elections. There is 
no judiciary in Haiti at this point. We need to help get 
governance in order in every way that we possibly can.
    But, for those of you here today, this issue really cannot 
be resolved until the President takes responsibility. And our 
position in supporting this President is a failed position. It 
is not a good position.
    With that, I think I have taken up all of my time. But who 
on this panel agrees that there needs to be accountability from 
the President of Haiti?
    [Applause.]
    Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    Ms. Waters. Thank you. I yield back the balance of my time.
    Mr. Sires. We are going to go a second round. There are a 
couple of members who have a couple of questions.
    Congressman Levin.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
    I just want to take a few minutes in closing to, first of 
all, recognize the leadership of some of my sisters who 
appeared before us here, and to note that it is not altogether 
common for multiple Members of Congress who have simultaneous 
hearings going on to come and wave onto a subcommittee, 
Chairman Sires, to speak about this. So, I want you to 
understand how much we care about Haiti and how intent we are 
for our country at long last to take a more responsible and 
constructive position. Congresswoman Waters, Congresswoman Lee, 
Congresswoman Pressley, Congresswoman Wilson all came here. So, 
I want to note that.
    Now, Ms. Douyon, let me just pick up something that you 
emphasized in your testimony. I am very concerned that there is 
a notion afoot, and has been for a long time, that Haiti is 
sort of a hopelessly failed state and that it is impossible for 
Haiti to stand up a government based on the rule of law and 
democracy. And I think that is a racist notion.
    I think it is a notion based on hundreds of years of 
colonialism going back to, well, back to when Haiti was a 
colony. But for the many years that France, after Haiti had the 
only successful national-level slave rebellion in history and 
kicked out Napoleon's army, France actually said Haiti had 
stolen its property; namely, themselves and their own land, and 
demanded reparations. And the U.S. supported this position. 
Obviously, I do not need to recite the whole history here.
    But let's talk about how we would actually step by step 
gather together the organizations of the civil society, stand 
up a transitional government, and move toward a new era of real 
sort of bottom-up democracy in Haiti. How do you see that 
happening? What are the steps we need to go through?
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you.
    First of all, I think even if now Haiti is a failed state, 
we are not condemned to being a failed state forever.
    Mr. Levin. Amen.
    Ms. Douyon. And you mentioned Taiwan here, and I am lucky 
enough to have received a scholarship to study in Taiwan. I 
have studied for four and a half years, and I have studied how 
Taiwan went from poverty to the state they are now. This is a 
very inspiring story, and I do not see what prevents Haiti from 
doing the same, except for corrupt officials and the fact that 
the international community is always somehow supporting them. 
Because we all know that those people are not using the foreign 
assistance, for example, to conduct the projects they were 
supposed to do. But, still, they give them more money.
    History has been written now. For example, the U.S. has 
supported the dictatorship of Duvalier, and now it is being 
perceived that we are supporting a corrupt President, the first 
one to be indicted while he is in power and the first one to 
have so many people taking to the street to ask for his 
resignation.
    In fact, we have plans for our country. They are so many 
groups from civil society, the youth, working on a plan, for 30 
years, a development plan, for Haiti. The other one that has 
done the fight against the dictatorship, they are here; they 
want to help. There are so many people committed to fighting 
corruption and to build a new country now, and we need to 
invest in key priorities.
    Haiti needs to be able to identify the priorities. We do 
not need the solutions that are easy for NGO's to run, like 
just distributing food aid. This is not helping. We cannot feed 
2.6 million people forever. Food security, we will not solve it 
by distributing food. We need to strengthen the agricultural 
sector. We need to invest in education.
    People who have studied abroad, a lot of people from my 
generation, we have studied abroad. We are qualified. Yet, we 
cannot answer the public administration because it is crippled 
by corruption. There is no way; they will not let us do 
anything there.
    This is what we want to change. We want to let people give 
those people the opportunity to serve. We need to trust the 
civil society. We need to trust the PetroChallengers. We need 
to trust those people who do not want to give up on Haiti now, 
those people who do not want to leave the country.
    I could have left Haiti. I could have come here. Canada is 
actually----
    Mr. Levin. I am sure you would be very successful here, 
just based on your performance this morning.
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you. Thank you.
    Mr. Levin. No kidding.
    Ms. Douyon. Thank you. I appreciate it.
    Like Canada is attracting all our qualified Haitians. The 
brain drain is really severe. Like if you have a Master's 
degree, at some point you get tired and you leave. We do not 
want this. We want Haitians to serve Haiti, and we can just 
trust those people from the civil society.
    And after that, we fight gang violence because they will 
not let us just change this country. They will fight for their 
interests. They are smuggling merchandise on the border. They 
are having State contracts and it is a lot of contracts. They 
will not let it happen that easily. This is why we need 
support, and this is why we need, also, for the international 
community to believe that we can decide what is good for 
ourselves and we can find a Haitian-led solution to this 
crisis.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Congressman Meeks.
    Mr. Meeks. Again, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this very, 
very important hearing.
    I listened to my colleague from Massachusetts, and I think 
New York is the second-largest number of Haitians. In Queens, I 
have a tremendous amount.
    And I would be remiss if I did not say that, of course, 
anybody that is from African-American origin owes a deep debt 
of gratitude for the leaders of Haiti who decided that they 
were not going to be slaves and made sure that they wanted to 
be free.
    I also would be remiss if I did not say that one of the 
greatest frustrations that I have had in the 21 years that I 
have been a Member of the U.S. Congress is the fact that, for 
some reason, one way or the other, we seem not to have gotten 
Haiti right, because the situation has not changed. We have had 
hopes at certain times after elections with certain Presidents. 
We thought that we were on a good path. And one way or another, 
something has happened, whether it is corruption that takes 
place, whether the policies of the United States, the money is 
going to the wrong place.
    I know in my own district, to a large part, it is divided, 
depending upon who I talk to. One says to do one thing, that I 
should be doing one thing as a Member of Congress, and another 
group says I should be doing something else that is absolutely 
wrong. But we are trying to figure out how to do it.
    I think, ultimately, the power does rest, when I listen to 
you, Ms. Douyon, in the people of Haiti to decide to come 
together. When I see folks getting together, as I have seen 
recently in Hong Kong, they are fighting for democracy and 
trying to make sure that their voices are heard. Hopefully, 
those voices will break through. The same thing I think has to 
happen. And we do need the fact that we have young people and 
women and others involved in the political process because I do 
not see how we get it done without the political process, and 
to figure out how do we get good people to run and governments 
to be transparent.
    Ultimately, I do not see how the United States is going to 
be able to come in and demand or say that this is the person 
you should vote for, et cetera. It really has to come from the 
ground up and through and by the people of Haiti to make that 
determination. Because we often talk about, when you think 
about colonialism and others, that is when other people come in 
and try to tell folks, ``This is what you need to do. This is 
how you have to do it,'' et cetera. And I do not I want to be 
in a position to do those kinds of things as a U.S. Government.
    That being said, I do not want us to spend our money in the 
wrong place that will cause damage to everyday Haitians. For 
example, one of the things that I was concerned about, I know 
when I talked to the State Department they said that the U.S. 
assistance to the Haitian National Police has helped strengthen 
their capacity and increased their ranks to 15,000. However, 
was that the right thing for us to do, to increase it? Because 
I do not know.
    When I looked at the United Nations High Commissioner for 
Human Rights, they found that at least 42 people have died 
during the recent protests and 86 have been injured. And out of 
the 42 deaths, at least 19 can be attributed to the security 
forces.
    So, do I want to give money to the Haitian National Police 
if, in fact, they are promoting human rights violations? No. Do 
I want to have peace and try to make sure that people are 
protected, so that they can protest and do everything? 
Absolutely. So, I am in a position of trying to determine what 
should we do. What should I do, as a Member of the U.S. 
Congress, in the policies that we put forward and the money 
that we want to invest? Where should we do it? Where should we 
put it? Is it a right thing? Is it a wrong thing?
    So, I have got a minute to go. Do I have anyone to answer 
those questions? Mr. Erikson?
    Mr. Erikson. Sure. I think that one very important role for 
Congress could be to go to Haiti soon and really assess the 
situation.
    Regarding the question of the Haitian National Police, I 
think, ultimately, civilian security in Haiti is going to 
depend on national police, right? We do not want the army to 
come back. But I think that this requires more in-depth 
examination by Congress, either members of this committee or 
others who may be interested to investigate this.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Garrastazu. And just to add to that, I think it is very 
important--you were saying, what should we invest in--I think 
we should invest in local governance, strengthening local 
institutions. I think that is one of the best ways to move 
forward, to really strengthen Haitians, and really also work 
with the grassroots civil society organizations and really 
build them up to be able to be those actors of change, those 
political champions, that can really help move Haiti forward.
    Mr. Meeks. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Esperance. I believe we should keep on reinforcing the 
security, the police force in Haiti. That is the only security 
force that we have in Haiti. It is actually quite credible. 
Other groups would be what we call they are attached to the 
government, but the official force that we should really 
support is the security, the police force. It is true that 
there are issues when it comes to the police force, but that is 
the only one that provides security, and we can even say that 
it is one of the most, if not the most, credible institution 
that we have in Haiti.
    What we need to keep on doing is to de-politicize the 
police force because there are some others that are coming from 
the politicians, from government officials, to some members of 
the police.
    Please do not try to get soldiers and also members of the 
U.N. forces, the blue berets, because they have spent almost 14 
years in Haiti and it is like sucking up money. It is better to 
try to reinforce the security force that we have in Haiti.
    Mr. Meeks. Thank you.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you.
    Congresswoman Wilson.
    Ms. Wilson. Thank you.
    Thank you for your questioning, Mr. Meeks, or Congressman 
Meeks.
    This is a very complex issue. And we live in the United 
States and we have corruption. We have corruption right in our 
White House, just like you have corruption in your President. 
And to find an answer to that corruption, and to remove the 
President of Haiti, there is a process in place and it is 
called impeachment in Haiti.
    What has happened to the impeachment process in Haiti, as 
we try to debate the transitional government which the head of 
the judiciary would be in charge of? Explain all of that to me 
because I hear so many sides of they tried to impeach the 
President, but people did not show up. Or what happened with 
the impeachment of Mr. Moise? Anyone know?
    Ms. Douyon. I think I can comment on this. First of all, 
you mentioned that there is corruption in the U.S. as well, and 
some people say that there is corruption everywhere in the 
world. But this is not the same thing. Haiti is the poorest 
country in the Western Hemisphere. We cannot afford that level 
of corruption we have. And the way it is affecting Haiti, it is 
not affecting the other countries.
    And the impeachment of the President, we had that one 
opportunity for the parliament to impeach the President. We had 
that process. But what happened is that they voted against it. 
But those same parliament members confessed to receiving money 
from the government to vote. Those same parliament members are 
the ones involved in scandals where they are wasting millions 
of goods to buy coffee and water while the people do not have 
access to potable water.
    There is a corrupt parliament where the majority are allies 
of the President and they are basically taking money. It is so 
corrupt that they are allies of the President. Yet, they are 
taking money from the President and his party to vote when he 
needs the effort. So, basically, they came and, then, they did 
not do what they were supposed to do. Most people were 
expecting, because the charges are here, and it could have been 
easy; this would have been done by now, but they did not. Yet, 
they are proud to confess that they received money and it is 
normal.
    And you may have seen on the news that some of them are 
really targeting, like fired a journalist. This is the kind of 
people who are in charge of the impeachment. And it has come to 
no surprise that it did not work.
    Ms. Wilson. What role will they play in a transitional 
government? What role would the government that is in Haiti now 
play in a transitional government? How would that be structured 
with the President and with the parliament and the upper 
chamber, the senators?
    Ms. Douyon. Okay. I just want to add that, for the moment, 
we do not have a legal government. The one we have now is 
illegal. We do not have a government and the President has not 
been able to form one for the past 8 months.
    Ms. Wilson. Because they do not show up to work?
    Ms. Douyon. Because they only show up when they have their 
own interests and they are paid to. Otherwise, like, for 
example, when they wanted to fire the Prime Minister, they all 
showed and it was quick and easy, and they were all proud to 
say how efficient they are. But when they have to show up to do 
their jobs, they do not.
    And the President did not organize an election. Therefore, 
we will not have a parliament next year starting the second 
week of January. He will rule alone by decree. Therefore, we 
will only have 9 or 10 senators. It is not really clear how 
much people will stay because, as always, they always find a 
way to mess things up. So, there can be uncertainty and they 
will have to find a political solution, like it is amended. We 
should know for how long they would stay, somehow knowing 
exactly how many people should stay, but the fact is that we 
will not have a parliament for the second week of January next 
year, and we do not have a government now.
    Ms. Wilson. But do you agree with Mr. Erikson about other 
nations coming in? Can Mr. Erikson repeat what he said in his 
testimony? I want Congressman Meeks to hear him.
    Mr. Erikson. Sure. Just very briefly, I think we are in the 
middle of three crises, right? The historic one that we have 
discussed, the acute political crisis of the last 2 years, and 
the crisis of apathy and indifference in the international 
community. I think this hearing can help to address that latter 
one.
    But my proposal is, while all this good work is going on in 
Haiti, to also re-energize the international community to see 
if it can help with some sort of political process to get Haiti 
past this impasse, which would be not just the United States, 
but the other members of the Core Group, which is a set of 
either countries or international institutions that have 
engaged in Haiti. It has actually been fairly dormant over the 
past 2 years. They include Brazil, Canada, the European Union, 
France, Spain, Germany, as well as the United Nations and 
Organization of American States.
    Ms. Wilson. Thank you. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Sires. Thank you very much. I want to thank the members 
that came to the hearing.
    And I want to thank the witnesses. You have been terrific. 
You have been here for almost as long as the impeachment 
hearing. No.
    [Laughter.]
    But I do thank you for your patience and your courage of 
some of the witnesses that are here today.
    And the challenges facing Haiti are significant and they 
are not going away anytime soon. I look forward to continuing 
to work with my colleagues on a bipartisan basis to see how we 
can best use the resources of the U.S. Government to help lift 
the Haitian people.
    Again, I thank you. I thank all the members who have been 
here.
    With that, this hearing is closed.
    [Whereupon, at 12:29 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

                                APPENDIX
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                       STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD
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            ADDITIONAL INFORMATION SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD
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                    RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED
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