    [House Hearing, 116 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

               HAITI ON THE BRINK: ASSESSING U.S. POLICY TOWARD A COUNTRY IN CRISIS

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                SUBCOMMITTEE ON
              THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE, CIVILIAN SECURITY, AND TRADE

                                     OF THE

                          COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                         ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                               DECEMBER 10, 2019

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 116-85

                                   __________

            Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://docs.house.gov,
                               or www.govinfo.gov

                                   __________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    38-545 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2022

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                       ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York, Chairman

    BRAD SHERMAN, California             MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Ranking
    GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York               Member
    ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey		     CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
    GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia         STEVE CHABOT, Ohio
    THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida	     JOE WILSON, South Carolina
    KAREN BASS, California		     SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania
    WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts	     TED S. YOHO, Florida
    DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island	     ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois
    AMI BERA, California		     LEE ZELDIN, New York
    JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas		     JIM SENSENBRENNER, Wisconsin
    DINA TITUS, Nevada		     ANN WAGNER, Missouri
    ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York          BRIAN MAST, Florida
    TED LIEU, California		     FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida
    SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania	     BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
    DEAN PHILLPS, Minnesota	             JOHN CURTIS, Utah
    ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota		     KEN BUCK, Colorado
    COLIN ALLRED, Texas		     RON WRIGHT, Texas
    ANDY LEVIN, Michigan		     GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania
    ABIGAIL SPANBERGER, Virginia	     TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
    CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania       GREG PENCE, Indiana
    TOM MALINOWSKI, New Jersey	     STEVE WATKINS, Kansas
    DAVID TRONE, Maryland		     MIKE GUEST, Mississippi
    JIM COSTA, California
    JUAN VARGAS, California
    VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas

                         Amy Porter, Chief of Staff
                         Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director

                    Jason Steinbaum, Democrat Staff Director
                   Brendan Shields, Republican Staff Director

                                     ------

      Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, Civilian Security, and Trade

                       ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey, Chairman

    GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York           FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida,
    JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas                  Ranking Member
    ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York	     CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey
    DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota             TED S. YOHO, Florida
    ANDY LEVIN, Michigan	     	     JOHN CURTIS, Utah
    VICENTE GONZALEZ, Texas	     	     KEN BUCK, Colorado
    JUAN VARGAS, California	     	     MIKE GUEST, Mississippi

                             Name,  Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                                   WITNESSES

    Esperance, Mr. Pierre, Executive Director, Haitian National Human
      Rights Defense Network.........................................     7
    Douyon, Ms. Emmanuela, Nou Pap Domi..............................    16
    Erikson, Mr. Daniel, Managing Director, Blue Star Strategies.....    25
    Hermantin, Ms. Leonie Marie, Director of Development,
      Communications, and Strategic Planning, Sant La Haitian
      Neighborhood Center............................................    38
    Garrastazu, Dr. Antonio, Regional Director, Latin America and the
      Caribbean, International Republican Institute..................    42

                                    APPENDIX

    Hearing Notice...................................................    80
    Hearing Minutes..................................................    81
    Hearing Attendance...............................................    82

                            STATEMENT FOR THE RECORD

    Statement for the record submitted from Chairman Sires...........    83

                     ADDITIONAL INFORMATION FOR THE RECORD

    Statement for the record submitted from Representative Waters....    86

                RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

    Responses to questions submitted for the record from
      Representative Sires...........................................    88

      HAITI ON THE BRINK: ASSESSING U.S. POLICY TOWARD A COUNTRY IN CRISIS

                           Tuesday, December 10, 2019

                           House of Representatives,

                    Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere,

                          Civilian Security and Trade,

                         Committee on Foreign Affairs,

                                         Washington, DC

        The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room
    2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Albio Sires (chairman
    of the subcommittee) presiding.
        Mr. Sires [presiding]. Good morning, everyone.
        This hearing will come to order. This hearing, titled
    ``Haiti on the Brink: Assessing U.S. Policy Toward a Country in
    Crisis,'' will focus on U.S. policy toward Haiti and whether it
    is advancing our strategic objectives and contributing to peace
    and institutional strengthening in the country.
        Without objection, all members might have 5 days to submit
    statements, questions, and extraneous material for the record,
    subject to the length limitation in the rules.
        I will now make an opening statement and, then, turn it
    over to the ranking member for his opening statement.
        Good morning, everyone, and thank you to our witnesses for
    being here today.
        This hearing comes at a critical time for Haiti. For much
    of the past year, that country has been gripped by a political
    and economic crisis. Many factors are contributing to this
    concerning situation.
        Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere,
    with nearly 60 percent of Haitians living on less than $2 a
    day. Increasing inflation and rising cost of living have made
    life even more difficult for many Haitians already struggling
    to get by.
        At the same time, the administration of President Jovenel
    Moise has been unable to form a government, and the legislature
    has rejected his last two nominees for Prime Minister.
    Scheduled elections did not take place in October, creating the
    real possibility that the Chamber of Deputies will dissolve in
    January and President Moise will be ruling by decree.
        Yet, the street demonstrations have been seen in Haiti and
    appear to reflect even deeper discontent. It seems that the
    Haitian people have had enough of political elites who they
    feel do not represent them and advocate for their own
    interests.
        I hear this frustration. As someone who is deeply engaged
    in our hemisphere and who wants the best for Haiti, I believe
    it is completely unacceptable that some Haitian politician
    leaders are living lavishly while the people continue to
    suffer.
        I note that, for many Haitian people, corruption is not an
    abstract concept. Corruption helps explain why half of the
    country is undernourished. Corruption contributes to Haiti's
    extremely low adult literacy rate of just 60 percent, and
    corruption tells an important part of the story behind the
    roads that still have not been replaced following the
    devastating earthquake in 2010. In other words, the funds
    stolen by government officials through the PetroCaribe program
    did not merely disappear into thin air. These were dollars that
    should have been used to improve people's lives and were,
    instead, used to line the pockets of the political powerful.
    With today's hearing, I want to send a clear message to the
    Haitian people that members of the U.S. Congress recognize this
    profound injustice.
        This hearing is also about assessing U.S. policy and
    foreign assistance programs. I know that we have dedicated
    staff working for USAID and the State Department in Haiti who
    are trying to help improve the situation in the country, but I
    believe we need to think critically about how we can better
    support the Haitian people.
        For instance, I am very worried about the human rights
    situation in the country. I urge the State Department to push
    for full investigations into the Saline massacre last year and
    allegation of excessive use of force against protesters in
    recent months.
        It is clear to me that a prosperous and fully democratic
    Haiti is in the United States' best interest. Moreover, the
    United States relationship with the Haitian people is not a
    one-way street. We know that Haitian-Americans and Haitian-born
    residents living in the United States provide a crucial support
    for their home country and lift up our economies as well.
        That is part of why I have consistently defended Temporary
    Protected Status for Haitians. I want to thank my good friend,
    Senator Menendez, for issuing a report last month that
    highlighted the contributions of 56,000 Haitian TPS holders who
    have been living in our country and strengthening our
    economies. I will continue to work with my colleagues to defend
    TPS for Haitians. I will also work to protect the United States
    taxpayers' resources.
        It is for this reason that I will continue to oppose any
    effort to use U.S. assistance for funding the Haitian military,
    which is unnecessary and diverts resources away from the
    National Police. I appreciate Congressman Levin's leadership on
    this and his deep engagement with Haiti.
        I hope that this hearing enables us to have an honest
    discussion about the extent to which our current policy is
    helping combat corruption, tackle poverty, and promote human
    rights and the rule of law in Haiti. And I look forward to a
    bipartisan conversation about what more can be done to help the
    Haitian people. Thank you.
        And I now turn to the ranking member, who is not here, but
    he just showed up--so, this is what we call perfect timing in
    Congress--my good friend, Ted Yoho from Florida.
        Mr. Yoho. I apologize for being late to everybody.
        Thank you for being here.
        Mr. Chairman, since its transition from dictatorship to
    democracy in 1987, Haiti has struggled with political
    instability, extreme poverty, corruption, and other endemic
    challenges that have hindered its growth and prosperity.
    According to the World Bank, Haiti is the poorest country in
    the Western Hemisphere. It had a GDP per capita of $870 in 2018
    and ranked 168 out of 189 countries in the Human Development
    Index. Nearly 60 percent of the population lives below the
    national poverty line; 24 percent make less than $1.23 per day.
        While the extreme poverty is largely a product of
    corruption and inept governance, devastating environmental
    disasters have also contributed, such as the 2010 earthquake
    and Hurricane Matthew in 2016, which caused damage in Haiti
    equal to 32 percent of the country's GDP.
        The United States is committed to supporting the Haitian
    people and has a vested interest in seeing a prosperous and
    stable democracy in Haiti. Further, Haiti recognizes interim
    President Juan Guaido as the leader of Venezuela and maintains
    relationships with Taiwan, and should be commended for doing
    so.
        However, recent events in the country highlight the
    continued fragility of Haiti's democracy. During current
    President Moise's tenure, the country has seen widespread
    unrest and allegations of government corruption that have
    resulted in the resignation of two Prime Ministers and
    widespread calls for the President's resignation. However, the
    President has refused to step down, and sectors of the
    government have ground to a halt.
        For example, Haitian legislators have blocked efforts to
    confirm the new Prime Minister and foiled multiple attempts to
    ratify the government. This has led to increased social unrest,
    demonstrations resulting in the death of more than 42 people
    and hundreds injured. Further, the lack of electoral law
    threatens to force the dissolution of Congress and the
    continued postponement of an election is very concerning.
        The United States remains a major donor of foreign
    assistance to Haiti. In Fiscal Year 2019, the U.S. provided
    $139.8 million in assistance and the Trump Administration's
    Fiscal Year request included $145.5 million in assistance. This
    assistance is focused on emergency food aid and distribution,
    global health programs, education, and security.
        Further, the United Nations has a continued presence over
    the last 15 years. Various U.N. initiatives have focused on
    restoring order and building Haitian National Police into a
    professional police force of over 14,000 officers in charge of
    domestic security. However, the police remain underfunded and
    are in need of continued support. The U.N.'s Mission for
    Justice and Support in Haiti, which replaced a larger
    peacekeeping mission in 2017, sought to strengthen judicial
    institutions and protect human rights. In 2019, the United
    Nations transitioned its mandate to an integrated office in
    Haiti to advise the government on strengthening political
    stability and good governance through an inclusive national
    dialog.
        Going forward, the United States must continue to support
    the Haitian people and work toward economic prosperity,
    democratic stability, and respect for human rights. We want a
    peaceful and inclusive resolution to the political crisis and
    urge all sides to respect the rule of law and the Haitian
    constitution. At the same time, the Haitian government has a
    responsibility to be responsive to the needs of the Haitian
    people and investigate all reports of human rights violations.
        I look forward to this hearing. Here we are in the 21st
    century. I have people come into my office in Gainesville,
    Florida, from Haiti that are in pharmacy school, and we talk
    about the situation in Haiti. He wants to graduate in pharmacy
    and go back to help rebuild Haiti. We were talking about water.
    He said less than 20 percent of the people in Haiti have
    potable water. This is unacceptable. We are in the 21st century
    in the Western Hemisphere. It is not from a lack of resources.
    It is from a lack of people that get elected or put into office
    that will not put the people of Haiti first. They put
    themselves first, and this is something that has to change. I
    would hope in the Western Hemisphere we would all come together
    to make this a fruition and reality.
        With that, I yield back and thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you, Ranking Member.
        I want to welcome at this time Congresswoman Barbara Lee
    from California and Congresswoman Frederica Wilson from
    Florida. Thank you.
        And we will now go to our panel. I will now introduce Mr.
    Pierre Esperance, Executive Director of the Haitian National
    Human Rights Defense Network. As a leading human rights
    defender in Haiti, Mr. Esperance has worked with the National
    Human Rights Defense Network since 1995 to promote human
    rights, rule of law, and government accountability in Haiti. In
    2002, he was awarded the Human Rights Award from the U.S.
    Embassy in Port-au-Prince.
        Mr. Esperance, we welcome you. Thank you.
        We will then hear from Ms. Emmanuela Douyon. Ms. Douyon is
    an economist and a leader of the PetroChallenge and Nou Pap
    Domi social movement demanding greater government
    accountability and transparency in the wake of PetroCaribe
    scandal.
        Ms. Douyon, thank you for joining us today.
        We will then hear from Mr. Daniel Erikson, Managing
    Director of Blue Star Strategies and Senior Fellow at the Penn
    Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement. He previously
    served as a special advisor to Vice President Biden and as a
    senior policy advisor at the U.S. Department of State.
        Mr. Erikson, thank you for joining us.
        We will then hear from Ms. Leonie Marie Hermantin. Born in
    Haiti, Ms. Hermantin grew up in New York City and holds a Juris
    Doctorate from the University of California at Berkeley and a
    Master's degree in urban environmental planning. She is the
    Director of Development, Communications, and Strategic Planning
    at Sant La Haitian Neighborhood Center, an organization focused
    on supporting south Florida's Haitian community.
        Ms. Hermantin, thank you.
        Finally, we will hear from Dr. Antonio Garrastazu, Regional
    Director for Latin America and the Caribbean at the
    International Republican Institute. Dr. Garrastazu manages
    programs and initiatives across 16 countries in the hemisphere
    focused on governance, legislative strengthening, political
    inclusion, and election integrity. He holds a Bachelor's degree
    in history and political science from the University of
    Florida, as well as a Master's and Doctorate in international
    studies from the University of Miami.
        Dr. Garrastazu, thank you for being here.
        I ask the witnesses to please limit your testimony to 5
    minutes, and without objection, your prepared written
    statements will be made a part of the record.
        Mr. Esperance, you and your interpreter will be allowed 10
    minutes to provide the subcommittee with simultaneous
    translation.
        This is the first time we are doing this. Will you please
    tell him that?
        Non-committee members will also be joining us in this
    hearing. Without objection, I ask for unanimous consent, so
    that the Members of Congress who are not members of this
    subcommittee may be recognized to participate in the hearing
    and question the witnesses after subcommittee members have had
    the opportunity to do so. Do I hear unanimous consent?
        Mr. Yoho. No objection.
        Mr. Sires. Okay. Mr. Esperance, I now turn to you.

      STATEMENT MR. PIERRE ESPERANCE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HAITIAN
                 NATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS DEFENSE NETWORK

        Mr. Esperance. [Mr. Esperance speaks through a translator.]
    Chairman Sires and all the members of the committee, we would
    like to thank you for this hearing that you have on the ongoing
    situation in Haiti. It has been 20 years, in fact, more than 20
    years, since we have had a hearing on human rights issues in
    Haiti in Congress.
        My name is Pierre Esperance and I am the Executive Director
    of RNDDH. RNDDH is a human rights organization that works on
    education, promotion, and also the monitoring of human rights
    in Haiti.
        Amongst many pressing human rights validation issues in
    Haiti, I will highlight five of them. The first one would be
    the proliferation of armed gangs that are being protected by
    the State. Since 2018, the current administration in Haiti has
    used armed gangs to repress political dissent in Haiti. As a
    result, we have had at least five massacres in Haiti. The
    largest massacre was the one that was perpetrated in November
    2018 in La Saline. Seventy-one people were killed during that
    massacre, children and adults. Eleven women were raped and at
    least 400 homes were destroyed. When you take the totality of
    these massacres, there has been at least 127 people that have
    been killed.
        With the proliferation of gangs in security in Haiti, there
    has been also an increasing insecurity in the country. The
    gangs are, in fact, even better armed than the police itself.
    Just for this year, we have had 44 police officers that were
    killed.
        Second, we have violence and repression against those who
    are demonstrating against the Haitian government. Since July
    2018 to today, we have had at least 187 people that have been
    killed and 42 of those people were shot in the head.
        Third, there is a politicization of the Haitian judicial
    system. For example, all cases that are implicating
    authorities, like the La Saline case and the PetroCaribe case,
    they are all blocked by the judicial system. The authorities
    use the judicial system to persecute the opposition members.
    For instance, there has been arbitrary arrests of protesters.
        Fourth is the question of pretrial detention. Seventy-four
    percent of people are still awaiting trial from the prison
    population. The prison population can only accommodate about
    3,000 people. But, in fact, today we have more than 11,000
    people who are imprisoned.
        Fifth is the non-respect of constitutional process. The
    Haitian authorities were supposed to have elections that were
    scheduled for October of this year, October 2019. The elections
    did not take place for the following reasons: the President did
    not use his majority empowerment to pass an electoral law or a
    budget. And they also introduced a new national ID card that
    was illegally done. It is illegal because this was not approved
    either by parliament, by the legislators, or by the National
    Court of Auditors.
        As a result, in January of next year, January 2020, the
    Haitian parliament will no longer exist and the President will
    be able to rule only by decree. It is a very concerning issue
    for the Haitian population because the country, the Nation is
    involved in corruption; also, in systematic violation of human
    rights, and also in its support for gangs.
        Considering all the situations that we are going through
    right now in Haiti, the Haitian population is asking for a
    resignation of the current government. Because of those
    reasons, we are asking the U.S. Congress to do the following:
        To encourage the Haitian authorities to stop arming and
    protecting the gangs;
        To stop politicizing the police and judicial institutions;
        To fight against contraband,
        And also, encourage Haitian authorities to provide
    information regarding PetroCaribe funds and, also, the
    massacres perpetrated since 2018, and to better explain the
    rationale behind the creation of the new national ID card.
        And also, for the U.S. authorities to monitor the illegal
    entry of arms and ammunition that are coming to Haiti.
        Thank you for your attention.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Esperance follows:]

        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Sires. Thank you very much.
        Ms. Douyon.

            STATEMENT OF MS. EMMANUELA DOUYON, NOU PAP DOMI

        Ms. Douyon. Chairman Sires, Ranking Member Rooney, and
    other distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you all
    for the opportunity to speak about the ongoing situation in
    Haiti. This hearing is an important step in recognizing the
    ongoing challenges the country is facing, and I look forward to
    sharing the perspectives of Nou Pap Domi with you today.
        For the past 18 months, the Haitian population has engaged
    in massive nationwide protests demanding increased government
    accountability. A movement called PetroChallenge emerged with
    two main grievances: government impunity and government
    corruption. This accountability movement is fueled by reports
    from both the Senate and the Court of Auditors outlining the
    misappropriation of an estimated $3.8 billion from the
    PetroCaribe fund. Successive Haitian administrations and
    officials have been implicated, including sitting President
    Moise.
        The response to the nationwide accountability movement has
    been varied. There are attempts to undermine accountability
    efforts. None of the officials implicated in the PetroCaribe
    corruption scandal have been held judicially accountable.
        Violence is used against protesters. Amnesty
    International's October report called on the government to
    protect the rights of protesters. There are attacks on the
    press. Journalists reporting on corruption and the popular
    movement have received threats and come under attack. Some even
    lost their lives.
        Armed gangs and State officials massacre civilians. They do
    this to repress dissent in neighborhoods such as La Saline and
    Bel Air. No one has faced charges for these crimes.
        This is a latent crisis that has finally exploded.
    Haitians, PetroChallengers, in particular, are committed to
    fighting corruption which is robbing them of the future.
    Besides, the economic situation in Haiti has worsened during
    Moise's presidency. Armed gangs that enjoy the protection of
    State officials proliferate. There is a consensus that Haiti's
    governmental system is broken and must be transformed to
    actually foster social equity and inclusion. Citizens from all
    sectors of civil society in both rural and urban areas are
    calling for the President to step down.
        To date, the U.S. Administration has largely stood by the
    Moise government. The U.S. has been recommending dialogs since
    2018, but the implication of high-level officials in acts of
    corruption and human rights violation has thwarted their
    legitimacy to lead national dialogs. Besides, the demand of the
    population is for systemic change.
        The U.S. has recommended the formation of a new government,
    but it is morally difficult to encourage citizens to work with
    a President that has been indicted in corruption. President
    Moise has already formed two governments during his 2 years in
    office. The reshuffling of the cabinet will not resolve the
    current crisis.
        The U.S. called to organize an election, but Haitian
    citizens see election as problematic and exclusionary within
    the current context. After the needed systematic reforms,
    organization elections is a priority for the transitional
    government. Haitian youth and civil society groups are willing
    to engage in the electoral process more actively in order to
    influence change.
        Moving forward, it appears increasingly likely that the
    President will not be able to complete his term. In January,
    the President will rule by decree without a legitimate Prime
    Minister and a parliament. This is a serious governance
    imbalance that raises several concerns. Many political actors
    and civil society organizations are collaborating to define a
    roadmap for the political transition.
        As of now, the international community does not support a
    political transition, but they must listen to the legitimate
    demand of the Haitian people. If the U.S. wants to support a
    sustainable way forward for Haiti, it must finally take its
    lead from Haitian civil society and support systemic reform.
    Corrupt officials cannot fight against corruption. The U.S.
    failure to stand with the legitimate demand of the current
    movement provides political cover for government corruption and
    impunity. That further undermines the right of the population,
    democracy, the rule of law, and stability. The U.S.'s decades-
    long focus on short-term stability over rule of law has failed
    and must be reevaluated.
        Thanks for your time. I look forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Douyon follows:]

        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Sires. Thank you.
        Mr. Erikson, you are recognized.

     STATEMENT OF MR. DANIEL ERIKSON, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BLUE STAR
                               STRATEGIES

        Mr. Erikson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you,
    Ranking Member Yoho, for organizing this hearing and for your
    opening remarks, which I found to be quite wise. And I would
    also like to thank the other members of the committee and of
    Congress who are here today.
        I will briefly address the current situation in Haiti, but
    the focus of my remarks will be on what the United States and
    the broader international community should do to address the
    Haitian crisis in 2020. When I was in Haiti last month, one
    thing became very clear: Haiti today is experiencing its most
    profound political, economic, and social crisis in a
    generation. And it will get worse next January, when the
    Congress dissolves, there is no political accord, the economy
    withers, security worsens, corruption remains unchecked, and
    millions will face emergency levels of food insecurity.
        How did the Haiti crisis become so severe? I see three
    overlapping crises. The first is the decades-long struggle for
    Haiti to achieve a basic level of governability and a
    sustainable economy. The second crisis emerges from the
    development and decisions during the administration of
    President Jovenel Moise, who assumed office in February 2017,
    and the resulting political gridlock, the protests, and the
    country lockdown, or ``peyi lock,'' as it is known in Creole,
    that devastated the economy and jeopardized the well-being of
    millions of Haitians.
        And all of this has occurred against the backdrop of a
    third crisis, a crisis of apathy and indifference among
    Haitians international allies and partners. This is a crisis of
    apathy that I believe this committee is best positioned to
    address.
        Haiti has suffered periods of sharp deterioration before,
    coups, earthquakes, hurricanes, political unrest, and in
    virtually every instance the international community, led by
    the United States, has sought to identify core problems, work
    toward practical solutions, and reduce human suffering. Not
    every engagement has been successful, but important lessons
    have been learned.
        The first is that, if the United States does not lead, no
    one else will step up to take our place.
        Second, the results have been more successful and more
    sustainable when the U.S. has been joined by partners across
    the hemisphere as well as allies in Europe and key
    international institutions like the Organization of American
    States, the United Nations, and the multilateral development
    banks.
        The third lesson is that, while Haiti will never achieve
    political consensus, political compromise can be obtainable,
    but only when the international community joins forces and
    Haitian political leaders understand both the stakes and the
    consequences.
        I believe the time is ripe to propose new approaches.
    Without a change in course, Haiti's deterioration will continue
    in ways that will be damaging both for the Haitian people and
    for the national security of the United States and our nearest
    neighbors in the Caribbean.
        As we turn to 2020, a year that will mark the 30th
    anniversary of Haiti's first democratic election and the 10th
    anniversary of the tragic Haitian earthquake that claimed so
    many lives, Haiti must assume a more central role on the U.S.
    foreign policy agenda.
        As an initial series of steps, I recommend the following:
        The first is that the United States Secretary of State
    should convene a ministerial-level meeting of the Haiti Core
    Group, which consists of counterparts from Brazil, Canada,
    France, Germany, Spain, the European Union, the United Nations,
    and the Organization of American States, with the objective of
    formulating a comprehensive strategy to help Haiti meet
    humanitarian needs and create a pathway for negotiations with
    Haitian partners for an agreed timeframe for new congressional
    and Presidential elections.
        Second, the United States and the Core Group should, then,
    spearhead a Haiti economic strategy and humanitarian relief
    session on the margins of the IMF-World Bank annual meetings
    that will occur in April 2020, including international relief
    groups and NGO's, with the objective of identifying how to
    rapidly surge food aid and economic support into Haiti's
    hardest-hit communities and ward off the possibility of severe
    malnutrition or even famine forecast to affect up to 4 million
    Haitians in 2020.
        Third, I believe we need a comprehensive review of U.S. and
    international security assistance to Haiti, with the objective
    of strengthening the Haitian National Police and ensuring that
    funds are not diverted either into the Haitian army or
    paramilitary apparatuses that threaten the rule of law and
    human rights.
        Fourth, I believe that the U.S. should consider the
    extension of Temporary Protected Status, or TPS, for Haitians
    in the United States past the 2021 expiration date and examine
    the possibilities for humanitarian parole for needy Haitians or
    for those whose lives are at serious risk.
        And last, the U.S. Congress could consider establishing a
    short-term working group of Members to create a more active
    role for Congress to monitor developments and ensure that Haiti
    occupies a prominent place on the U.S. foreign policy agenda
    next year, with the aim of a full restoration of an elected
    democratic government as soon as possible and certainly by no
    later than 2021.
        The crisis in Haiti, in conclusion, is deep, complex, and
    cannot be solved by the Haitians alone or by the United States
    or by any other single country or international actor. However,
    I am confident the members of this committee, working together
    with the U.S. Administration and the broader international
    community, can do considerably more to help put Haiti back to a
    prominent place on the U.S. regional and international agenda.
        Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Erikson follows:]

        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Sires. Thank you.
        Ms. Hermantin.

         STATEMENT OF MS. LEONIE MARIE HERMANTIN, DIRECTOR OF
     DEVELOPMENT, COMMUNICATIONS, AND STRATEGIC PLANNING, SANT LA
                      HAITIAN NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER

        Ms. Hermantin. Good morning. I would like to take this
    opportunity to thank the chair, the ranking member, and
    distinguished members of the subcommittee. I also would like to
    thank Congresswoman Wilson for the opportunity for the Haitian
    diaspora to be represented.
        This hearing is timely because Haiti is, yet again, at
    another crossroads. We face, yet again, another crisis, but
    this time it is manmade.
        I am really humbled by the great presentations made from my
    predecessors here. And so, I will not talk about the political
    situation. I will limit my remarks to our concerns from the
    diaspora's perspective, both the humanitarian crisis and the
    issue on security.
        I am here as a member of the Haitian diaspora. In the
    United States alone, there are over a million persons of
    Haitian ancestry, the majority of whom are naturalized or U.S.-
    born citizens.
        Our diaspora is a very diverse one, and we do not all speak
    in one voice. But I can speak with total certainty that we are
    united on key points.
        One, that we are extremely concerned about what is
    happening in Haiti today, and that Haiti's poverty offends us
    deeply. We are hard-working people with exemplary work ethic
    and entrepreneurial spirit. Our people deserve better.
        Like many of you, we are confounded by the lack of results
    from U.S. investments in Haiti. And like the PetroChallengers
    demand to know what happened to billions of PetroCaribe funds,
    we, too, want to know about the impact of billions of U.S.
    taxpayer dollars invested in Haiti for the past 30 years. Why
    are you still calling Haiti the poorest country in the Western
    Hemisphere after our government has invested so much in so many
    programs?
        We all agree that the current status quo which supports
    corruption and violation of the rule of law must be done with.
    It is time. We all agree that Haiti needs to invest in
    education, health, infrastructure, agricultural reform, job
    creation, and constitutional reforms. We all agree on that. And
    we also believe that Haitians must resolve their problems.
        First, I will quickly talk about the humanitarian crisis,
    which has been covered in-depth here. The crisis began in 2018
    and, as you can imagine, in a fragile economy like Haiti, the
    smallest shock can upend the lives of a great majority. One of
    the ways that many in Haiti have been able to survive is with
    support of family and friends in the diaspora. According to the
    World Bank, remittances from the diaspora to Haiti reached
    record levels in 2018, amounting to $3.1 billion from $2.4
    billion in 2017, a 30 percent increase.
        This current crisis has a direct financial impact on
    Haitian-American households, as we are often the economic
    lifeline for families back home. Data indicates that 90 percent
    of remittances come from North America.
        I will skip and talk about the security crisis. This crisis
    that we are currently facing also has a lot to do with
    insecurity, and that affects us in many ways. Many of us in the
    diaspora are concerned by the inability of the Haitian
    government to guarantee our security. We are concerned about
    the gang arms. We are concerned about what appears to be an
    extremely chaotic situation, and that has forced us to cancel
    personal humanitarian and business trips to Haiti.
        When it comes to Haiti, the U.S. has made it clear that it
    believes in elections and democratic process, but has ignored
    the Haitian people's relentless demands for change. It is
    clear, paradoxically, that the U.S.'s position is more flexible
    in other parts of the world. In Hong Kong, for example, we
    proudly stand with the people and not the elected leaders. We
    believe, as Haitians and as Americans, that it is important for
    the U.S. to listen and respect the voices of the people. We
    Haitian-Americans will welcome bipartisan support for the
    Haitian people in their call for justice and social-economic
    inclusion.
        We also want to encourage you to cover cross-border
    corruptions. We know where the dollars are siphoned to. We need
    them to be brought back to Haiti.
        We also recommend that the U.S. work in partnership with
    Haitians locally and the diaspora in the United States and
    abroad, as opposed to the big, international development
    organizations.
        We need to be more creative and stop using unsuccessful
    strategies with the same actors. And I am talking about USAID,
    who proposed the same programs under different titles to get
    the same results. The Haitian people and the diaspora demand
    accountability and transparency, neither of which is always
    forthcoming under the current USAID practices.
        I will take these last seconds to sound an alarm about the
    humanitarian crisis that is in the making in Haiti. We know it
    is going to happen. And as Mr. Erikson just stated, it is going
    to be of gigantic proportion, very scary. We cannot close our
    ears, mind, or our hearts. We have to be prepared. The
    indicators do not lie.
        And again, we like talking about the policies. U.S.
    agencies in Haiti often take the route and funnel their support
    through bilateral and multilateral agencies, the usual
    suspects. We believe that a better strategy is to leverage the
    diaspora to maximize U.S. investments.
        I will end with a quote from Martin Luther King. ``Why
    should there be hunger and deprivation in any land, in any
    city, at any table, when man has the resources, the scientific
    knowhow to provide all mankind with the basic necessities of
    life? There's no deficit in resources. The deficit is in human
    will.''

        Mr. Sires. Thank you.
        Dr. Garrastazu.

     STATEMENT OF DR. ANTONIO GARRASTAZU, REGIONAL DIRECTOR, LATIN
     AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN, INTERNATIONAL REPUBLICAN INSTITUTE

        Mr. Garrastazu. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member
    Yoho, distinguished members of this subcommittee, thank you for
    the opportunity to testify this morning.
        Thank you, also, I must add, for organizing a hearing on
    this topic critical to U.S. interests and the future of
    democratic governance in Haiti.
        Since the inauguration of President Noise in February 2017,
    widespread protests have become commonplace, severely impacting
    Haiti's governability. Mass protests swelled in September 2019,
    really with no end in sight. Although protests are waning and
    streets are quieter, demonstrations will likely continue, given
    the opposition's demand the President step down.
        Furthermore, the fact that elections for the entire Chamber
    of Deputies, two-thirds of the Senate, and all local officials
    should have taken place on October 27th of this year continue
    to exacerbate the ongoing political impasse and an increasingly
    fragile environment, creating a governance crisis in the new
    year.
        An unstable Haiti poses a risk to U.S. national security.
    Haiti is a large recipient of U.S. aid in the region, second
    only to Colombia. U.S. assistance to Haiti has traditionally
    been focused on health, and in Fiscal Year 2020 only 4 percent
    of the requested funding was allocated for democracy, human
    rights, and governance, while 80 percent was for health-related
    initiatives.
        Concentration of development assistance at the national
    level, however, has shown few results, as evidenced by the
    current political and economic conditions. Efforts at
    bolstering the capacity of local officials and civil society
    organizations, youth, private sector, and using the talents and
    resources of the diaspora community will provide a sustainable
    path toward Haiti's journey to self-reliance.
        Targeted foreign assistance on democracy, human rights, and
    governance should really be a priority. Geopolitically, Haiti
    serves as an important U.S. ally in the region. Haiti could be
    considered a partner in countering malign Chinese interference
    by preventing China from concluding, through its Belt and Road
    Initiative, more opaque and economically questionable
    infrastructure projects that bring unsustainable debt burdens
    in this region and increase dependence on China.
        From 2018 to 2019, there has also been a shift in Haiti's
    approach to voting in the Organization of American States by
    not recognizing the legitimacy of Nicolas Maduro as President
    of Venezuela. Haiti also taken a similar stance on the
    increasingly authoritarian government in Nicaragua.
        Building the capacity of local governments and providing
    supporting outside the capital Port-au-Prince I believe is
    critical to enhancing accountability and State presence and
    bringing institutions closer to citizens. Since 2016, IRI has
    worked with municipal officials and civil society organizations
    in Haiti's Greater North to strengthen their institutional
    capacity, promote citizen engagement, and encourage
    marginalized groups, including youth and women, to have a voice
    and participate in political processes. Developing political
    and administrative skills at the local level is much more
    effective than the current top-down approach adopted by many
    foreign assistance donors.
        IRI has also been working with local CSOs across the Grand
    North to improve advocacy and oversight of local governments.
    The institute has supported the creation of grassroots
    departmental networks with support from USAID. The creation of
    these networks is significant because of the centralized nature
    of decisionmaking in Haiti and the need to provide a voice to
    leaders outside the capital and at the local level.
        There are many political, economic, and security
    challenges, as we have discussed, in Haiti's democratic
    governance landscape that should be addressed through U.S.
    foreign assistance. A cornerstone of this strategy is
    strengthening local Haitian institutions. The following
    recommendations could be a step in the right direction:
        First, a sustained focus on local governments and
    bolstering the capacity of civil society organizations is
    necessary.
        Second, a focus on youth to serve as agents of positive
    changes in the communities is critical.
        Third, there is a need for more public opinion research to
    better understand the challenges Haitians face to effectively
    design and implement the U.S. foreign assistance programs.
        Fourth, private sector engagement has an important role to
    play to ensure the sustainability of foreign investments.
        Last, the U.S. should continue to work with Haiti's
    diaspora community as a critical element in the foreign policy
    assistance process.
        Assessing U.S. policy toward Haiti, a country of perpetual
    crisis, is never easy and really can be frustrating. Yet, U.S.
    commitment to Haiti needs to remain strong. Haiti's proximity
    to the United States, its regional geopolitical implications,
    and relevance to our national security have never been more
    important. Supporting a strong, committed, and empowered local
    governance in Haiti is but one economically sensible tool at
    the disposal of the U.S. foreign policy apparatus.
        Thank you very much, and I look forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Garrastazu follows:]

        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Sires. Thank you very much for your comments. And now,
    we will go into questions, and I will start with myself and,
    then, the ranking member, and the other members that are here.
        This question is for Mr. Esperance. Mr. Esperance, I give
    you a great deal of credit for speaking up on human rights in
    Haiti because you are living there now. And my question is, how
    concerned are you for your safety since they have so many
    gangs?
        Mr. Esperance. I believe that the work that I am doing is a
    challenge. I never think about my own security because I can
    move around and go where I want to go. But I think about the
    people who live in popular neighborhoods that are being
    massacred; they cannot go anywhere and they cannot move around
    as I can. Fighting for human rights in Haiti is not something
    that is easy. I have been a victim, as there are many threats,
    but I will keep on working. I will keep on doing my work.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you.
        I visited Haiti I think 2 years ago. And one of the things
    that troubled me the most is when we met with the Prime
    Minister. He has spoken about reinstating the army. And to me,
    that was an indication that he is just not serious about taking
    care of his people. I cannot believe that an island that small
    or a place that small would need an army. I pointed out to him
    that Costa Rica does not have an army and they are doing well.
    I pointed out to him that I visited the police barracks, one of
    the police barracks, and they did not even have a table to sit
    on to have lunch. His answer was that the constitution of Haiti
    requires an army. Well, a constitution can be changed and the
    people come before anything else. So, if you are going to spend
    that money on creating an army, why not invest it in the needs
    of the people? I told him that I would never support any money
    for Haiti that goes to the army in this Congress. And the
    impression now that I get from everyone here is that this
    situation could get out of hand very quickly, and I am very
    concerned for the people of Haiti.
        So, Mr. Erikson, if this situation gets out of hand
    quickly, who should step in? Because, obviously, there is
    corruption at the highest level. There are gangs roaming all
    over Haiti. Who steps in? I mean, I know you mentioned about
    the European Union and everybody else. They have got their
    issues. So, is it time for somebody else to step in?
        Mr. Erikson. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman. A
    few point I would like to make.
        The first is for a long time the United Nations had stepped
    in with the support of the U.S., Latin America, and others. And
    from 2004 to 2019, there was a U.N. peacekeeping force which
    was large at the beginning and, then, tailed off at the end.
    Now there is a smaller political mission, but there is no
    peacekeeping force in Haiti today, which is, I think, an
    important distinction from the past several years.
        Second, what Haiti really needs is a functional Haitian
    National Police and a judicial system. In fact, the Haitian
    National Police has become--and there are still problems,
    admittedly--but it has become a more professionalized and
    larger force over the last 10 years with the support of the
    United States and with the support of the United Nations.
        I do not think that the Haitian army is the correct
    approach for the Haitian government to take at this time.
        Mr. Sires. My concern--I hate to interrupt----
        Mr. Erikson. Sure.
        Mr. Sires [continuing]. But my concern is I think Mr.
    Esperance pointed out that 41 police officers were killed this
    year. I mean, who would want to join the police department when
    you have this kind of atrocity going on?
        Mr. Erikson. No, I mean, it is an excellent point. I think,
    in essence, what is required in Haiti right now is some sort of
    political solution that can alleviate the protests, restart the
    economy, and get some semblance of governance. And the concern
    I have right now is that solution is not going to emerge from
    Haiti's political actors without intensified international
    pressure and diplomatic engagement.
        It is possible that what you allude to, basically, a larger
    breakdown that forces someone to step in--I cannot name who
    that would be, internationally or otherwise--could take place,
    but I think that is still preventable, but only if we get to
    political accord and the clock is ticking, because congress,
    most of it, will cease to be in office in Haiti in early
    January. And that is going to leave a President who is already
    extremely embattled ruling by decree without any broader sense
    of political legitimacy.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you.
        I now go to the ranking member.
        Mr. Yoho. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        And I thank you all.
        Oh, does he have a question?
        Mr. Sires. Oh, I am sorry, sir.
        Mr. Yoho. Yes, Okay.
        Mr. Esperance. Haiti does not need an army right now, and
    that is for many reasons. What we need is for the authorities
    to reinforce the police and also the judicial system. And if
    they give to the police the means to do their work, they can
    actually provide security inside the country.
        Mr. Sires. My time is up. I need to go to the other
    members. Thank you very much.
        Mr. Yoho. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        And I appreciate everybody's testimony.
        Dr. Garrastazu, go Gators. That is right. For everybody
    else that is not a Gator, sorry you could not get in.
        Can I ask a question of the audience? How many people are
    from Haiti or lived in Haiti?
        [Show of hands.]
        Wow, that is a good representation.
        I live in Florida. I represent Florida's 3d congressional
    District, where the University of Florida is. And I have lived
    in Florida since the early sixties. And Haiti has been an issue
    all that time. We have heard it referred to as a ``sewer
    hole''. I probably have said that myself over the years. And it
    was not President Trump that was the first to say that. We have
    heard this over and over again.
        And, Ms. Hermantin, you brought up something that the
    chairman and I said before you spoke: the people of Haiti are
    hard-working people. We have them in our State. We have them in
    our district, and I have known a lot of them. But, yet, there
    is that narrative out there that there is this problem with
    Haiti. I think, Mr. Erikson, you brought up that the world has
    become immune to Haiti because, you know, it is just Haiti;
    that is what Haiti does.
        How do we change that narrative? And I have got the Foreign
    Affairs Committee Republicans' talking points: ``The U.S.
    supports rule of law, adherence to the constitution, and
    promotion of democracy in Haiti.''
        Since approximately the last 10 years, we have invested $3
    billion as a nation--$3 billion. And I hear this all the time
    through different countries: rule of law, lack of corruption
    build democracies, and we hear this over and over again. And I
    think, Ms. Hermantin, you brought it up. It is like a broken
    record. We say these things and we check them off because we
    feel good about it, but the results do not change on the
    ground.
        And I ask, for the people of Haiti, how many have lived
    there or are from there? You are the ones, this is your
    country. What do we need to do to make a difference in Haiti
    that we have not done in the past? We can do another USAID
    project. Or what was their last thing: bring food over. How
    effective is bringing gross quantities of food, how effective
    is that to getting it out to the people that really need it?
        Go ahead.
        Ms. Hermantin. Well, bringing loads of food to the people
    is part of the structural issues that Haiti faces because Haiti
    is an agricultural nation----
        Mr. Yoho. Right.
        Ms. Hermantin [continuing]. Which produces food.
        Mr. Yoho. And we are killing it.
        Ms. Hermantin. But when you bring loads of rice, when you
    bring imported food, you destabilize----
        Mr. Yoho. Exactly, and we know that. But, yet, policymakers
    or people that run these programs do not get it.
        Ms. Hermantin. No.
        Mr. Yoho. But, yet, it is a way for us to get it out there.
        Let me go on to something because what I see, I heard
    somebody say, ``I can get you to the dance floor; how well you
    learn to dance is up to you.'' We can bring these programs, but
    if we do not have somebody that is a leader in Haiti, that is
    willing to stand up and say, ``I am going to do what is best
    for the people of Haiti,'' nothing is going to change.
        Because I forget which one--I think it was you, Dr.
    Garrastazu--staying focused on local government, staying
    focused on youth, but if there is not stable government, if
    there is not rule of law, if there is not respect for the rule
    of law or respect for the individual human rights, you can do
    all that you want, but I am going to have to come back next
    year and help you do it again, and the next year.
        We have to have somebody that is willing to stand up in
    Haiti, and the Haitian people need to demand this. We can
    support that movement, but we cannot do a top-down from America
    that says, ``You need a democracy.'' I want a stable government
    in Haiti that is best for the Haitian people that we can work
    with, that will put what is best for the people.
        Go ahead. You were going to say something?
        Mr. Garrastazu. Thank you, Ranking Member.
        No, absolutely agree. And I think for sustainability there
    needs to be political will; there need to be champions within
    the community to really bring this to bear. And I think
    strengthening the local institutions, working with the local
    governments who have the voice of the people, who see the
    people, where the people can actually see change, is very
    important. It is also very important to have these structures
    in place, so that health aid, or any other aid you want, has a
    better place from which to stand. So, these political champions
    I think are critical.
        Mr. Yoho. I am running out of time, but I would love for
    all of you to triage it. We know what the problems are. We
    cannot fix them all at one time. We have to start somewhere,
    and it has to start with some basic things and has to be rule
    of law and respect for each other. And then, we can build from
    that, and we have to have the people on the ground that are
    willing to do that. Bring those people to us, so that we can
    help them, if that is what they want for Haiti.
        Mr. Chairman, thank you, and I yield back.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you.
        Congressman Espaillat.
        Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member.
        I know that very often we Members of Congress like to
    exempt ourselves of any responsibilities and feel as though we
    have not been complicit in any of this, and that the problem in
    the Caribbean and Haiti like surfaced from nothing. But the
    fact of the matter is that, historically, we supported a
    dictatorship of Francois Duvalier. We supported a dictatorship
    of Rafael Trujillo Molina. And we have up until now, also,
    supported the colonial status of Puerto Rico. So, in fact, the
    crisis in the Caribbean is very much deep rooted in what we
    have done as a country in that important part of the world,
    which is considered our fourth border--our third border.
        And so, my question is the following: given that the Miami
    Herald said that there are 500,000 illegal firearms circulating
    in Haiti, given that, also, the State Department cited that
    there are 286,000 children under the age of 15 working in what
    is considered domestic servitude, given that we just heard
    today that 41 police officers have been killed and 42
    protestors have also been killed in the recent protests, Haiti
    is at the brink of disaster.
        My question to all of you, and I would like to get a yes-
    or-no answer from each of the panelists: do you feel that the
    return of the Blue Helmets will stabilize or will help to
    stabilize the situation while we work on broader reform that
    must come before an election is held? The answer from each of
    the members, yes or no, do you feel that the Blue Helmets
    should come back?
        Mr. Esperance, yes or no?
        Mr. Esperance. No.
        Mr. Espaillat. No? The answer is no? Thank you.
        Ms. Douyon.
        Ms. Douyon. No. We do not need this. What we need is
    systemic reform and Haitians are able to handle----
        Mr. Espaillat. Yes or no, Mr. Erikson?
        Mr. Erikson. Not at this point.
        Mr. Espaillat. Ms. Hermantin?
        Ms. Hermantin. No.
        Mr. Espaillat. Mr. Garrastazu?
        Mr. Garrastazu. No, not at this moment.
        Mr. Espaillat. Okay. So, all of you feel that the Blue
    Helmets, although they may have contributed to help some level
    of stability while they were there, you do not feel they should
    come back at this critical time? Okay.
        So, who are the members, Mr. Esperance, who are the
    individuals leading the armed gangs? Could you name them?
        Mr. Esperance. Well, listen, there are so many gangs, armed
    gangs in Haiti.
        Mr. Espaillat. Yes, but who are the leaders? Could you name
    me the top three gang leaders? We should know them by name. We
    should be able to identify them.
        Mr. Esperance. For instance, Arnel Joseph in the
    metropolitan area of Port-au-Prince. He recently was
    imprisoned. They are Jimmy Cherizier, ``Barbeque,'' who has
    been implicated in the five massacres and----
        Mr. Espaillat. And the third one, please? Sorry, I could
    not hear you.
        Mr. Esperance. He actually works for the government.
        Mr. Espaillat. Okay. And the third one?
        Mr. Esperance. When we say that this is somebody who works
    for the government, it is not that he directly works for the
    government.
        Mr. Espaillat. Okay. I wanted the names.
        Now let me go to Ms. Douyon. You stated in your testimony
    that the President will not be able to complete his term in
    2022. Why is that? Do you feel that there will be--that is
    totally impossible for him to complete his term? And what does
    that mean in real terms?
        Ms. Douyon. Just that the protests will keep on going
    because people are really dissatisfied with his ruling, and the
    economic situation has worsened under his term, and he has not
    taken any action to improve the situation. He has ruined any
    chance he has to have dialog, and the movement now is not a
    movement between the opposition and the President. It is about
    accountability, and we PetroChallengers, we will not accept
    that this President will represent us, because it is a shame;
    he is indicted in corruption, and we do not believe he deserves
    to stay in power and rule by decree alone without a parliament
    and without a government in January.
        Mr. Espaillat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Sires. Mr. Vargas, do you have a question?
        Congressman Levin.
        He does not have a question.
        Mr. Levin. [Speaks briefly in French.]
        Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Yoho, I thank you so much
    for holding this hearing and for the bipartisan engagement. It
    is really encouraging to me, and I can tell the witnesses and
    the audience that it is not going to be another 20 years before
    we have another hearing in this subcommittee under the
    leadership of Albio Sires. We will pay close attention to this
    crisis and do everything we can to change things.
        I have really been struck by your testimony today. I think
    25 years ago I published a law review article that I think was
    read by 12 people, but the thesis of it was that United States
    policy has failed in Haiti because we only deal with a tiny
    slice of the population who speak French, the economic elite.
    In fact, we call them ``civil society,'' and we have failed
    over many years to actually work with the broad groups of
    Haitian civil society--the neighborhood protection
    organizations, literacy organizations, the unions of teachers,
    whatever it is--the groups that, when he visited our country in
    the 19th century, Monsieur de Tocqueville said, were what set
    our country apart, not elections, but this effervescence of
    people organizing themselves.
        And so, here today, Monsieur Esperance, Madame Douyon,
    Madame Hermantin, you basically all said, do not be obsessed
    with elections right now; we have had a lot of elections in
    Haiti and they failed to change things. Elections are
    constitutive of a democracy, and we need them, but, first, we
    need to work with the Haitian people in civil society to have
    accountability and have the rule of law.
        So, let me start by asking Mr. Esperance to expand on--I
    was very troubled by your account of the status of the
    judiciary in Haiti. How endemic is the undermining of the
    independence of the judiciary and what could we do to begin to
    change that?
        Mr. Esperance. The judicial power is a power, but the
    executive branch and, also, the legislative branch consider the
    judiciary branch as a poor parent. There is not enough funds.
    There is not enough money for the reforms that are needed in
    the judicial branch.
        The one thing that is important is the Superior Council for
    the Judiciary, which is an independent body. It is the judicial
    inspection. It does not exist. It does not have the means.
        Well, indeed, as one of your colleagues, one of the
    Congressmen just mentioned, the United States spent billions of
    dollars in Haiti, but the results so far have been zero.
        Mr. Levin. For this body?
        Mr. Esperance. They spent a lot of money for judicial
    reform. The problem is that the USAID and U.S. organizations,
    when they try to come up with these programs, they do not work
    with the actors on the ground. They do not work with the people
    they should work with.
        As we are speaking right now, the U.S. Government has a big
    program when it comes to judicial reform. Meanwhile, the system
    has worsened. What we need is authorities who respect the
    judicial branch, so the branch itself can perform as it is
    supposed to.
        It has been more than 30 years that I have been working on
    human rights issues. We have never gone through that situation
    that we are going through now for the past few years.
        Mr. Levin. It has never been this past in the last 30? All
    right.
        My time has expired. Mr. Chairman, I am going to hang out,
    in the hopes that I might get to ask some more questions when
    everyone else is tired. Thank you. I yield back.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you.
        Congressman Buck.
        Mr. Buck. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        First, I would be glad to yield to my friend for a couple
    of minutes, if you would like to ask more questions right now.
        Mr. Levin. I will wait.
        Mr. Buck. Okay. Then, I will yield to Mr. Yoho from
    Florida.
        Mr. Yoho. Thank you. I appreciate it.
        Ms. Douyon, you were getting ready to say something when we
    were talking about it before. We know how much money we have
    put in there. For Haiti to have less than 20 percent of the
    population have running water in the 21st century in the
    Western Hemisphere, I cannot comprehend that. And so, I want
    you to go ahead and answer what you were going to answer
    before. And then, let's talk about how do we fix this and make
    a significant impact, so we do not have this hearing next year
    and say, ``USAID dropped some more food here, and thank you.''
        Ms. Douyon. Thank you.
        I wanted to add something about the judiciary system. The
    judiciary system is crippled by corruption like all the other
    institutions and it is not working for the people. On a recent
    trip in Paris, the President said that he had to hire 50
    corrupted judges in the judiciary system. This is an example of
    how severe the situation is when a President confessed to
    hiring corrupt judges. So, no one can trust the judiciary
    system to serve the people. We only believe the judiciary
    system will protect the interests of those in power.
        About the fact that most people do not have potable water
    in Haiti, this is a serious problem and it is another example
    of how people go to election just to have State resources, to
    live a lavish lifestyle, to share privilege with their friends,
    with their entourage, and not for the people.
        Mr. Yoho. Okay. Let me interrupt you there. How do we
    change that? How do we get rule of law and respect for rule of
    law?
        Ms. Douyon. The way to do that is to actually foster
    systemic reforms, so that competent and honest people can go to
    election and run the country.
        Mr. Yoho. All right. So how do you get rid of the
    corruption that prevents that?
        Ms. Douyon. One of the ways to get rid of it is to show
    that--like, for example, we are asking for a PetroCaribe trial.
    In the past, no one has faced charges for corruption, and the
    accountability movement, we want----
        Mr. Yoho. Is there a political will in the people that are
    in government to carry that out? Are they willing to do that or
    are they afraid and intimidated?
        Ms. Douyon. They do not want to do that because so many
    high-level officials are indicted in corruption. Then, in the
    reports they want to protect themselves. So, they do not want
    this to happen.
        Mr. Yoho. So, if they do not want to, how can you change
    that?
        Ms. Douyon. This is why we want the President to resign,
    because himself, he has indicted in corruption and we want to
    have a transitional government which will handle the
    PetroCaribe trial.
        Mr. Yoho. In your opinion, if you have a transitional
    government, if he steps down, what guarantees or what certainty
    do you have that you are going to have somebody that is going
    to really put the people of Haiti first?
        Ms. Douyon. We have this guarantee because of the
    accountability movement. Years ago, people like me, we were not
    on the street protesting for corruption. We are tired. We have
    had enough.
        Mr. Yoho. I would think so.
        I see my three colleagues in the back, they are smiling.
    So, they must be happy with what I am asking or they do not
    think it is going to happen.
        Ms. Douyon. It will happen because I do not think Haitians
    are ready to support any corrupt officials anymore. We have had
    enough. We have seen that it does not work, and that is why we
    are asking for----
        Mr. Yoho. But when you have people in control that are
    corrupt, they are going to suppress you, right?
        Ms. Douyon. They are trying to suppress the movement.
        Mr. Yoho. I think they have been doing it since I was a
    little kid, and that was a long time ago.
        Ms. Douyon. Yes.
        Mr. Yoho. Because we have seen what has happened since the
    sixties.
        The people of Haiti deserve to have the freedom and
    liberties that we have, that we believe in. We are all born
    with that innate quality. And if we do not change--and I want
    to talk to you, Mr. Erikson. You brought up the U.N. The U.N.
    was there for what, 12 years? Now they are small. How effective
    were they and what results do we--can we say, all right, the
    U.N. was here; they did this and look at the great results?
    Obviously, it is not water and sewer.
        Mr. Erikson. Yes, you are absolutely right, Congressman.
    So, the U.N. was present in Haiti beginning in 2004 in the
    middle of another crisis, when President Aristide was ousted,
    and then, remained through the period of the earthquake, and
    really drew back the peacekeeping mission substantially in 2017
    and transitioned to a political office in 2019.
        The legacy of the U.N. in Haiti is very mixed. Clearly,
    there was success in maintaining the peace during that time,
    because Haiti did not have this widespread social civic
    breakdown that has taken place in the last couple of years. And
    there is a Haitian National Police, which Mr. Esperance
    referred to, which has become a more positive force, more
    accountable. It is bigger. There was about 5,000----
        Mr. Yoho. I am going to run out of time here in 3 seconds.
        Mr. Erikson. All right. There was 5,000 police in Haiti in
    2010. Today, there is 15,000.
        Mr. Yoho. Thank you.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you.
        Congressman Castro.
        Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairman.
        Dr. Garrastazu, you mentioned in your remarks that you
    believe that Haiti is a national security concern for the
    United States. How do you mean that?
        Mr. Garrastazu. Thank you, Mr. Castro.
        Well, its proximity to the U.S., being so close to my home
    State of Florida. Its geopolitical implications that I had
    mentioned; the fact that they maintain a partnership with
    Taiwan is something to really consider because it is forcing
    China to keep away from our borders, which is very important
    right now. The Dominican Republic is working closely with
    China. El Salvador is just now working closely with China.
    Panama is working closely with China. And China is really all
    over Haiti, trying to dabble and trying to get them toward
    their sphere. That is something very important to consider.
        And also, multilaterally, it is very important that Haiti
    for the past several years has always sided with CARICOM, with
    the regional block, and it is now taking a stance against
    Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela, so something to consider. And they
    have also taken a stronger stance against the authoritarian
    government of Ortega in Nicaragua.
        Mr. Castro. Sure. So, I guess your comment was geopolitical
    in nature?
        Mr. Garrastazu. It is geopolitically and strategically
    correct.
        Mr. Castro. Sure. No, and I understand. I just think that
    in the past we have seen migration from Haiti, folks seeking
    refuge and asylum in the United States. And oftentimes, when we
    receive people from nations like Haiti or Mexico or Central
    America, there is a language that develops around those people
    that can be harmful to the way Americans think about who these
    people are. We see it with Central American migrants now where
    there is an effort--and I am not including you in that--I am
    just saying there is an effort to try to make these people out
    to be dangerous or people that we should fear. And again, I am
    not saying that is your intention.
        But Haiti has confronted, has dealt in the past with what I
    would consider bad U.S. foreign policy posture; also leaders
    who did not serve the people of Haiti, but served themselves,
    and also natural disasters, the most recent of which, the 2010
    earthquake, the country, they lost somewhere between 100,000,
    maybe 250,000, people that they are still trying to rebuild
    from. And so, I ask that and I certainly respect your answer on
    the geopolitics and the significance, and the challenge that
    China poses in the Caribbean and Latin America. But I also want
    us to be mindful that when people, whether in the past or in
    the future, seek asylum here, that most of all they are coming
    in desperation, oftentimes oppression, and are not dangerous
    people in and of themselves.
        Mr. Garrastazu. Oh, yes, sir. And coming from the State of
    Florida, I think I have a unique perspective on that. My family
    is Cuban-American.
        Mr. Castro. Sure.
        Mr. Garrastazu. So, they have been here since 1960 and
    really have contributed to what south Florida is today. Growing
    up with Haitians, with Venezuelans, with Mexicans, I know the
    positive impact that they can have on the community. And I
    think I am also one of those prospects. My family came, worked
    really hard, and I am sitting before Congress today, which is
    very cool.
        But understand there needs to be a change of narrative as
    well as the positive aspects of what they are doing. For
    example, what is going on in Venezuela and Colombia with the
    migration crisis, Venezuelans are really putting forth a lot in
    that community. So, we need to really speak about that positive
    aspect as well--it is not just negative--and the contributions
    they can make to society.
        Mr. Castro. Yes. Thank you.
        I yield back, Chairman.
        Mr. Sires. Congressman Smith.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, and thank you, Mr. Chairman
    and Mr. Yoho, for calling this very important hearing.
        Thank you for your testimoneys.
        Let me just focus for a moment on the issue of anti-human
    trafficking, both labor and sex trafficking. More than a decade
    ago, I met with a woman named Nancy Rivard, an airline flight
    attendant with American Airlines. And she and others
    recognized, coming out of Haiti, that there were a number of
    children who were basically unaccompanied except by some guy
    that just did not look like there was a relationship
    whatsoever, and contacted law enforcement.
        And, lo and behold, they found out there was a trafficking
    ring, a pedophile ring, of huge proportions. Over 60 children
    had been trafficked. When they got law enforcement involved,
    they were able to stop it, make arrests. But the 60-plus kids
    that had been so horribly mistreated were still lost into a
    terrible system.
        I actually wrote a law, the Frederick Douglass Act that was
    signed into law earlier this year, on anti-human trafficking. I
    also wrote the original Trafficking Victims Protection Act. But
    the Douglass Act has specific language in it, and it was born
    out of what we learned from Nancy Rivard and others, that gives
    prioritization to U.S. use of airlines for Federal employees,
    if they have a protocol in place to spot trafficking, to be
    situationally aware.
        So, I would like to ask you, if you could, where are we in
    terms of the Haitian government and its record? The TIP Report
    this year upgraded Haiti to Tier 2. It had been much worse off
    for years. They do have a new national plan, as you know, that
    is in effect. Although the recommendations from our Trafficking
    in Persons Office is that they prioritize that national plan,
    they underscore the fact that there needs to be the training of
    police, prosecutors, judges; that there is a great deal of non-
    information/misinformation about the nature of trafficking. So,
    it is not prioritized by law enforcement. Even training of
    labor investigators, so that they can look for labor
    trafficking, both in Haiti and those that are sent elsewhere.
        If you could speak to the issue of trafficking, whoever
    might want to take it, or several of you? Is Haiti moving in
    the right direction? The TIP Report suggests, yes, but they are
    nowhere near where they ought to be to protect the children of
    Haiti as well as women and others who are exploited.
        Ms. Douyon. I know that efforts have been made to tackle
    this issue, but I will say that this is all part of a bigger
    problem, which is impunity, weakness of law enforcement, and
    worsening economic conditions. And to solve this problem, we
    need to get to the root cause and prevent officials from
    diverting money that is meant to fight poverty and allow
    parents to have the resources to raise their kids so they will
    not be that exposed to human trafficking.
        Thank you.
        Mr. Smith. Yes?
        Ms. Hermantin. From the perspective of the Haitian-American
    community in Miami, for example, we know, neighborhood-based
    organizations such as the one I work with, that there are a lot
    of young people who are living in deplorable conditions within
    households in the Haitian community. These are the children who
    migrated, who are sent by parents. Again, because of the
    economic situation, they were sent for themselves and to take
    care of their families back home.
        But these young people are in a semi-state of servitude.
    Thank God they go to school, but they live in really horrible
    conditions at home, and social service agencies try their best
    to attend to their needs because this is sort of the route to
    gang activity in urban centers in Miami. So, we do notice that
    there are such situations, it is clearly documented, but we
    have no power over what happens in Haiti.
        Mr. Smith. Yes?
        Mr. Esperance. All this issue of human trafficking, it
    occurs with the absence of the rule of law. Today in Haiti,
    human life does not have any importance or the authorities.
    What we need is a strong State where all the institutions are
    working and they are doing exactly what they are supposed to
    do, like a well-healed machine. There is no real effort on the
    side of the authorities to address these issues and to resolve
    them.
        Even if the current President you have now had the
    opportunity to finish his term in 2022, there is no opportunity
    to really have elections with him that can be credible. In
    other words, Haiti will have to go through a transition, no
    matter what. And so, during that transition we will be able to
    address all those issues, impunity, the question of the rule of
    law, and so forth.
        Mr. Smith. Mr. Esperance, thank you very much. Thank you
    all.
        I think my time is up.
        Mr. Sires. Congressman Phillips.
        Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Mr. Yoho, for
    calling this hearing.
        And welcome to our witnesses. Bonjour et bienvenue.
        The failures of the Haitian political system have been well
    documented, not just for generations, but literally over two
    centuries, I think it is fair to say. And we have a tendency to
    try to treat symptoms and not address underlying disease. I
    think that underlying disease is surely corruption, as we have
    spoken about briefly today. So, I would like to start with
    that.
        Ms. Douyon, you spoke briefly about it, but I would like
    some specifics about how the United States of America can use
    its resources, both financial and human, to start taking steps
    to improve governance, restore the faith and trust in
    government, and address the underlying disease.
        Ms. Douyon. Thank you.
        If the U.S. wants to support a sustainable way forward,
    like I said, it may take its lead from the Haitians of its
    society. You mentioned it. We are treating the symptom. We are
    going to the root to do a cause of the problem. And now, the
    problem is that we want to fight corruption and get rid of
    corrupt officials.
        And the steps are: get this government to resign. Have the
    PetroCaribe trial. Make reforms.
        Mr. Phillips. So, step one is getting the government to
    resign?
        Ms. Douyon. Yes, because there is no way a corrupt
    President can do any good for this country, except protecting
    himself.
        Mr. Phillips. So, working with Moise and his government is
    a non-start?
        Ms. Douyon. It is impossible. It is morally impossible as
    well.
        Mr. Phillips. Okay. No. 2?
        Ms. Douyon. And we need to get a trial, and we need to get
    constitutional reform, change in the electoral system, so we
    can have fair and open elections.
        Mr. Phillips. Let's stop there for a moment.
        Ms. Douyon. Yes.
        Mr. Phillips. How do we begin that initiative?
        Ms. Douyon. With a transitional government with a clear
    mandate. There are actually civil society organizations who are
    working on a roadmap for the transitional government.
        Mr. Phillips. Okay.
        Ms. Douyon. And there is a general consensus on what this
    transitional government should do. And the priorities are the
    trial and elections, fair, open election with a new electoral
    system, a new electoral council, because the one we have now
    cannot organize an election. It does not respect the legal rule
    and I think its term is over as well. Therefore, we need those
    basic changes, so we can have honest people, competent people
    to run for office and enter a new system. We need systemic
    reforms and we definitely need it now.
        Mr. Phillips. Is anything that the United States is doing
    right now affecting any of those three initiatives?
        Ms. Douyon. Stop supporting the Moise government because
    the way it is, the U.S. Government is encouraging dialog and it
    does not work. There is no way we can have dialog with a
    corrupt President who has ruined any chances he had to have
    dialog. Even when it was not about his resignation, he ruined
    it.
        The United States is pushing to the formation of a new
    government. It will not work. We cannot ask people to enter a
    government with a corrupt President and direct it in
    corruption. There is no way we can ask people to do that.
        And he had a chance with a Prime Minister from the
    opposition, Mr. Ceant, and he would not. So, he has had two
    governments and it did not work. He had the majority in the
    parliament. Yet, he could not form a government. There is no
    way we can trust him to handle anything.
        Mr. Phillips. Okay. I appreciate it.
        Mr. Erikson, I would like to talk about our diplomacy in
    Haiti. Are staff drawdowns affecting--as I presume the answer
    is yes--our ability to affect diplomacy and do our business, if
    you will, in Haiti?
        Mr. Erikson. The U.S. Embassy in Haiti is functioning in an
    extremely challenging environment in terms of security. In
    terms of the staff footprint, I do not know if there have been
    many changes, but there have been periods where people, for
    example, have not been able to have their family members there
    with them.
        And then, I would just say, in general, there has been
    fewer visitors. There have been a few high-level visitors
    recently, but you are not seeing perhaps the level of
    diplomatic attention from Washington, either.
        Mr. Phillips. And what would that level of diplomatic
    attention look like in a perfect world?
        Mr. Erikson. Sure. Well, one of the proposals that I made
    in my testimony is to have the Secretary of State convene in
    the first quarter of next year all of the key international
    actors engaged with Haiti, which is known as the Haiti Core
    Group, which includes countries from Europe, Latin America,
    Canada, and international institutions, to try to lay out what
    a framework would be for the international community to help
    assist with a political solution and, also, address the
    humanitarian needs.
        Mr. Phillips. Okay. Thank you.
        Mr. Chair, I yield the balance of my time.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you.
        Congressman Vargas.
        Mr. Vargas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        And I thank the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Yoho. In fact,
    Mr. Yoho said that we have to respect the rule of law; we have
    to have the rule of law, and are we willing to carry it out?
        So, this Saturday my oldest daughter and I, we drove to
    Tijuana to the area called El Chaparral, where people present
    themselves for asylum. Now the law is such that a person
    fleeing from persecution should be able to go up to the
    American side of the border, present themselves, and then,
    ultimately, have their case adjudicated to see if they have
    legitimate fear to be able to, then, gain asylum and stay in
    the United States.
        Now there are a number of people that were there, and there
    is this queuing system that prevents people from actually doing
    that. So, you physically literally cannot get to the American
    side of the border and ask for that because you are prevented
    from doing that by this fence that has been put up by the
    Mexican government, in conjunction with the American
    government.
        The American government, we only allow a few people. In
    fact, there is this book that they have and they only call a
    few people from it. And there was this beautiful couple that
    turned out to be from Haiti. It was a husband, a wife, and a
    little girl. And I could not help but think at this time of the
    year of another family 2,000 years ago that was looking for
    refuge that I think had a great case, and I think here also.
    But they never even had the opportunity.
        In fact, there was someone there, thankfully, who was able
    to explain to them you have to put your name on this list, and
    maybe 6 months down the line, or 4 months down the line, your
    name will be called. You have to come here to hear your name.
    Then, you can apply for asylum.
        Well, we should follow our own law. We should be willing to
    respect the rule of law. That family should have had the
    opportunity to present themselves and make their case for
    asylum. Under the conditions that you are talking about today,
    I think that family would have made a great case to say, ``We
    fear for our lives. We fear for our livelihood. We fear for the
    child that we have with us here,'' and be able to stay in the
    United States under our law. But we are not willing to do that.
        So, when we hear about this notion that people should be
    able to follow the rule of law and we should respect the rule
    of law, we should begin by respecting our own rules, our own
    laws, and allowing that little family to be able to present
    themselves appropriately, as they wanted to. They did not even
    know it--now, again, it gets more complicated because they did
    not speak Spanish and they did not speak English--so, they did
    not even know how to do this when they showed up. Again, I
    think we should respect the rule of law.
        That being said, I mean, I am very much in favor, of
    course, of us providing greater assistance to Haiti. We have to
    do that. I am in favor of that. I know there is corruption and
    there is a lot of other things. There always is in the world.
    But, at the same time, we should respect our own laws, our own
    rules, because we know that this is going to happen around the
    world. That is why we have always been a refuge for people
    seeking this type of help, this type of asylum. That is how
    most of the people probably in this room got here.
        And so, again, we should respect our own rule of law. We
    should respect our own rules and give an opportunity. We should
    look at that, Mr. Chairman. There is a grave injustice
    happening along the border, especially for people that do not
    speak Spanish or English.
        And I have to say, too, my daughter, the reason she was
    with me, she works at Casa Cornelia, which attempts to get
    asylum for people that arrive in--it began with girls and
    women, and now families, that have been trafficked. And how,
    they are seeking asylum.
        In particular, I think people of African descent get
    discriminated against. They are coming through a nation that is
    Mexican, obviously, that speaks Spanish. And oftentimes, they
    do not know the language, Cameroonians especially, in
    particular. But we should respect our own rule of law.
        So, again, I am very much in favor of us helping Haiti, and
    I am here to listen. But, at the same time, I am also here to
    say we are not doing it. We are very good to cast aspersions on
    other countries; they should follow the rule of law. We do not
    do it. We do not follow the international law. We do not follow
    our own rules.
        Mr. Erikson, what do you think about it? I mean, do not you
    think the conditions exist there to be able to apply for asylum
    here for some people with a legitimate reason?
        Mr. Erikson. Yes, I do. And I really appreciate your
    commentary and observations.
        One of the recommendations that I made in my testimony was
    the extension of Temporary Protected Status for Haitians in the
    United States past the current 2021 expiration date and the
    examination of possibilities for humanitarian parole for maybe
    Haitians or political asylum for those whose lives are at
    serious risk.
        Mr. Vargas. And I hope we do it.
        My time has expired here. But, again, I thank you very
    much, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity.
        Mr. Sires. Congressman Meeks.
        Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for
    holding this very important hearing today.
        And I thank all the panel members who are sitting there and
    my colleagues.
        As you may know, yesterday myself and eight other Members
    of Congress, many of whom are sitting on the dais today, wrote
    to Secretary Pompeo and Administrator Green to express our deep
    concern regarding the prolonged political and humanitarian
    crisis in Haiti. We know that people are dying on a daily
    basis, some because of no food, others because of the violence
    that has taken place.
        And what I am trying to find out, and according to the
    State Department, U.S. policy toward Port-au-Prince focuses,
    they tell me, on strengthening institutions and infrastructure
    for sustainable development and democratic foundations and
    poverty alleviation. So, that is what we were told by the State
    Department.
        So, my question would be, then, to you initially, since
    most of you or all of you have been on the ground and looking,
    just to ask you, what is the perception among Haitians of the
    U.S. Embassy and the U.S. assistance to Haiti?
        Yes?
        Ms. Douyon. The perception is that the U.S. Embassy is
    supporting the President, and the President does everything he
    can to show that he has the strong support of the U.S. Embassy
    and the U.S. Government. And we believe that the answer from
    the embassy to the PetroCaribe movement, for example, isn't as
    strong as it should be. It is the very first time that there is
    a strong accountability movement in the country, and it does
    not receive the recognition it should.
        The response is better on the human rights side because
    they condemned the last massacre and all, but they have been
    mainly calling for dialog, which I mentioned before is not
    possible. They have been calling for the formation of a new
    government, which people do not believe is the solution because
    the government, the President is corrupt and other people he
    appointed before have like corruption suspicion upon them. And
    they have been calling for election, but I think my colleague
    mentioned it before, we have the Dermalog scandal related to
    the identification called the voter cards. It did not respect
    the rule. It did not have the validation from the Court of
    Auditors, and it does not help to promote elections with a
    government that is using an illegal card, basically, to have
    this election.
        And it seems like they are pushing for election either way,
    whether it is a fair election or not. It is like we are
    promoting, the U.S. is supporting democracy, but not democracy
    itself, but sign of democracy, as long as we have a government,
    no matter the way it was formed. No matter the type of people
    in this government, it is democracy. No matter the kind of
    election we have, as long as we have an election to prove that
    we are respecting democracy, it is Okay. But we are tired of
    this and we believe we should not keep going this way because
    it isn't better.
        Mr. Meeks. It is your feeling that there should not be any
    cooperation with the Moise government because they could not
    have a fair and democratic election. And I just want to check
    to make sure that everybody on the panel feels the same way. Do
    they think that is accurate? Or is there any way to engage, but
    make sure that we do have a fair and impartial election?
        Ms. Hermantin. Thank you.
        The idea of fair and democratic elections, also a construct
    that is not necessarily well implemented in Haiti. Let's look
    at how these elections are funded. How are individuals
    incentivized to run for office, to create parties? Before
    elections, you have parties just pop up out of nowhere because
    people know that elections will come with funding. Each party--
    if I am wrong, please let me know--each person or each party
    that presents candidates will receive some funding from the
    international community. So, this obsession with the electoral
    process, one-man/one-vote elections, has created a cottage
    industry of bogus parties that come up and that attract not the
    most civic-minded people to come and run.
        So, when we have elections where we have 75 individuals
    representing 75 parties running for office, someone should say,
    what is wrong with this picture? What monster have we created,
    all in the name of, quote/unquote, ``democracy''?
        And so, the incentivization of politics or elections has
    sort of created this monster that attracts sometimes the worse
    elements that we have to offer. So, the idea that you have
    elections and that is proof that democracy is healthy in Haiti
    is not really accurate. You cannot say that, well, we have
    elections, so everything should be Okay. Why cannot you attract
    the right people? The process itself attracts the wrong people.
        Ms. Douyon. And if I may add something?
        Mr. Sires. Thank you. We have four other guests.
        Congresswoman Frederica Wilson from Florida?
        Ms. Wilson. Thank you, Chairman Sires, and thank you for
    holding this hearing. This is long overdue.
        And I am pleased to have my constituent and Haitian
    community leader, Leonie Hermantin, testify today. And I asked
    you to invite her to testify at this hearing because my
    district is home to one of the Nation's largest Haitian
    communities, which I have had the privilege of representing in
    Congress and in the Florida legislature.
        In October, Leonie and other Haitian community leaders
    joined Speaker Pelosi and me for a roundtable on Haiti. And one
    of those panelists, Attorney Karen Andre, who worked in the
    Obama Administration, is in the audience. Raise your hand,
    Karen.
        Generations of Haitians passionately expressed their
    heartfelt concerns about the ongoing crisis. They were livid.
    They made it abundantly clear that Haiti's sovereignty and
    right to self-determination must not be undermined. They also
    shared concerns about the Trump Administration's continued
    support for President Moise and inadequate calls for
    accountability for the myriad of grievances that have compelled
    Haitians to take to the streets and march and protest.
        We cannot remain silent when there are credible allegations
    of corruption, human rights abuses, and other atrocities. We
    cannot remain silent when thousands of ambitious Haitian
    children, especially young girls, are unable to access an
    education, which is their only ladder of opportunity. And we
    cannot remain silent when more than 3 million Haitians are
    facing a hunger crisis. We must speak up and we must listen.
        That is why today's hearing is so important and so timely.
    We have had the opportunity to hear directly from Haitians who
    are living in Haiti and in the diaspora, and united in fighting
    for a stronger, more prosperous Haiti. Their testimoneys have
    given us valuable insight about the impact of U.S. policies on
    Haiti.
        And the Miami Herald editorial board said that we must
    invest in Haiti. The international community must invest in
    Haiti. We have to do something and not just listen. I heard Mr.
    Erikson, and we need to listen, direct, and we need to act.
        I hope this is just the first of many congressional
    hearings on Haiti. For too long, there have been no hearings on
    Haiti.
        Thank you, Chairman Sires, for listening to us and
    engaging.
        Ms. Hermantin, thank you for traveling from Miami and for
    your continued leadership in the Haitian community.
        You portrayed the Haitian diaspora as an underutilized
    asset and recommended that the U.S. work in partnership with
    the Haitians locally and diaspora experts, as opposed to the
    big international development organizations. How should USAID
    and other U.S. agencies demonstrably leverage the expertise of
    the Haitian diaspora to maximize the effectiveness of U.S.
    investments in Haiti? And what do you consider as a suitable
    mechanism to facilitate this kind of partnership that you
    envision?
        Ms. Hermantin. Thank you for the question. I often dread
    talking about USAID from the diaspora's perspective because we
    have seldomly seen a willingness to fully engage the Haitian
    diaspora. We, as I said, invest $3.1 billion in Haiti, and yet,
    we are never invited as partners, as investors around the table
    when it comes to creating programs that target us.
        There was a program right after the earthquake called the
    Haitian Diaspora Marketplace. It was a 2-year program and its
    goal was to provide financial and technical assistance to
    members of the Haitian diaspora, but it was led from a bank in
    Haiti and it was supposed to give technical assistance to
    people who live in the United States. So, it really did not
    make too much sense and it really did not work very well. It
    was not very successful.
        There was another effort called LEAD. Again, its goal was
    to attract investment in small and medium-sized enterprises
    based in Haiti, but it was implemented by one of these large
    organizations. Again, that did not successfully engage us.
        The idea is you put in lots of lip service to programs
    engaging the diaspora, but if you do not engage us, if you do
    not come to us, come to find us and talk to us, it is not going
    to work.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you. Thank you. Can I just get to the
    other member?
        Ms. Hermantin. Oh, sorry.
        Mr. Sires. They were waiting long.
        Congresswoman Lee.
        Ms. Lee. First, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this hearing.
    I am formally a member for many years of this committee, the
    full committee and subcommittee. So, thank you so much for
    inviting us back to be here with you.
        Once again, I just have to say my heart continues to ache
    for the people of Haiti. And I want to associate myself with
    many of the remarks that have been made today.
        Now, for many years, myself personally, since the
    seventies, I have worked in a variety of ways to support the
    Haitian people and have, of course, visited Haiti many times
    prior to my being a Member of Congress and now serving as a
    Member of Congress.
        Let me just frame this within a couple of perspectives. I
    am vice chair of the subcommittee that funds all of our foreign
    aid, USAID. So, thank you for your response on the question
    from Congresswoman Wilson.
        But we have helped spearhead and guide the humanitarian
    U.S. assistance efforts after the deadly earthquake. We have
    worked to improve and strengthen health care. We supported
    efforts to strengthen governance, and we have always stood to
    protect the human rights of the Haitian people. We have ensured
    funding for emergency assistance through USAID, ensuring that
    that is available, and we included important language in the
    appropriations bill requiring a report on the La Saline
    massacre, including the human rights abuses. We have also
    required our government to condition funding for the central
    government of Haiti on human rights abuses and governance
    issues.
        The ongoing political and economic crisis in Haiti has led
    to, we all know, as you have said, a food crisis. Schools and
    businesses are being shut down for weeks, vital resources
    becoming scarce.
        I share that because there are many, many efforts that all
    of us have mounted, and then, still, we see what has taken
    place in Haiti. In many ways, it appears to be a failed state.
        Now I am one to believe that the U.S.'s role has not been a
    very positive role, laying out everything I just laid out and
    more, because of the structural issues and because of our
    history of undermining in many respects the Haitian people in
    terms of their freedom, their liberation, and the empowerment
    of the Haitian people.
        I know for a fact that a lot of the USAID money has gone to
    NGO's that are not Haitian NGO's. None of the Haitian
    businesses in the diaspora, as you said, have been brought to
    the table.
        And so, I am wondering, first of all, what do you think we
    can do here as Members of Congress, in addition to what we have
    done, to address the structural issues and to make sure that
    the United States becomes a positive actor in this? And then,
    second, as it relates to the incidences, the massacre really in
    La Saline, what is the status of that? Has anyone been brought
    to justice? Has anyone been prosecuted in that massacre?
        Mr. Esperance. Like I mentioned earlier, all financial
    crimes or other kinds of crimes that have been committed, the
    Haitian government has blocked the kinds of investigation at
    the judicial level. In other words, if you consider the foul on
    the La Saline massacre, there has not been any indictment that
    has been issued and the criminals are going about their
    business without any problem. One of the gangs with Jimmy
    Cherizier that was involved in that massacre is continuing to
    act the same way in other massacres.
        Earlier, the question was asked about the Haitian
    perception of the U.S. Embassy in Haiti. We can see from 2017
    up until March 2019 U.S. authorities have given unquestionable
    support to the Haitian authorities. With the letter signed by
    104 Congressman that was delivered in March of this year to the
    embassy, the embassy has begun to shift, to modify in some of
    these fouls; for instance, La Saline.
        U.S. authorities are putting a lot of pressure against a
    lot of people who are demonstrating against the government in
    power. They cancel a lot of the visas of many of them and they
    also apply a lot of pressure on them.
        In the meantime, Haitian authorities who are involved in
    money laundering, they are being protected. They never do
    anything against them. There is no sanction against them.
        Recently, the OAS and the government have come up with a
    program to try and cleanup corruption within the government.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you.
        Congresswoman Pressley.
        Mr. Esperance. Thirty seconds, 30 seconds?
        Mr. Sires. All right, go ahead. Finish up.
        Mr. Esperance. If the U.S. Government puts its money in
    that program, it is going to be a waste. It is going to be
    wasting money. It is true that they want to reinforce the
    institutions that are fighting against corruption, but you have
    to do it with authorities, with people who are not corrupt,
    with authorities that are destroying these institutions like
    your current authorities are doing right now.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you. I do not mean to cut you off, but we
    have other members that have been waiting for a long time.
        Congresswoman Pressley.
        Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for waving me onto
    the committee for this critically important conversation today.
        I am here for two reasons, one in my official capacity as
    the Congresswoman representing the Massachusetts 7th
    congressional District, which boasts the third-largest
    population of the Haitian diaspora in the country. But I am
    also here, if I am being fully authentic, as a black woman in
    gratitude. A parent is a child's first teacher. My mother did
    not read me nursery rhymes, but she made sure early on that I
    knew the words of Toussaint Louverture, ``I was born a slave,
    but Nature gave me the soul of a free man.''
        The people of Haiti inspired me in my lifetime of work to
    fight against the colonialism and for the liberation and
    freedom of black people and all people around the globe. And I
    thank you for that role.
        I also proudly boast the only pre-K, dual-language program
    in the country in the Toussaint L'Ouverture Academy; and
    finally, trail-blazing, historic Haitian-American leaders like
    Marie St. Fleur, Linda Dorcena Forry, Jean Bradley
    Derenoncourt, and Gerly Adrien, elected more recently.
        So, what is happening in Haiti is of specific and urgent
    import to the people that I represent, dealing with the fact
    that they cannot travel back to the funerals of their loved
    ones due to the violence; the fact that students cannot go to
    school; that hospitals do not have enough oxygen for critically
    ill patients seeking care.
        Just last month, I held a roundtable with Haitian
    stakeholders in my district to hear directly from them about
    how the violence has impacted their families and how the U.S.
    can play a role in helping to forge a path for long-term peace
    and stability for the people of Haiti. They stressed the need
    for security measures to keep their loved ones in Haiti safe
    and strong accountability measures to prevent fraud and to hold
    bad actors to account.
        Some of my line of questioning has already been asked. So,
    I just have a couple of things with the time that I have
    remaining. The first is, can you speak to how has the closing
    of the USCIS field office in Port-au-Prince affected the
    situation in Haiti? Anyone who would like to comment on that?
        Mr. Esperance. I am not sure this program really helped a
    lot of Haitians. It was a program that was established to help
    people who were applying for political asylum and, also, to
    bring family members.
        Ms. Pressley. Okay.
        Mr. Esperance. There is not a lot of people who are
    applying nowadays for political asylum because what the U.S.
    Government has done is make it so that it takes much longer,
    like 3 years-four years before you actually get even an
    interview.
        Ms. Pressley. Okay. All right. Thank you.
        And then, did you want to elaborate?
        Ms. Douyon. I want to add something, but not exactly
    related to your question, but related to the introduction you
    made. My friends, my colleagues in the PetroChallenge movement,
    the movement for accountability, we follow you closely in Haiti
    and we are inspired by those women in Congress here in the
    United States. And one of our concerns is that in Haiti we
    cannot do the same and women cannot run for office as easily as
    it is done elsewhere because, to win an election in Haiti, you
    need support from a gang and you need dirty money.
        And here, I will take the opportunity to say this is also
    one of the reasons we are having this movement, because in the
    future we would like to see people like you playing this role,
    taking a role in parliament and help the country, just like you
    are doing here.
        Ms. Pressley. Thank you.
        To that point, are there any leaders of the opposition that
    you could name? And could you speak to how a transitional
    government could actually--how do we ensure that that does not
    contribute to the chaos and actually does get Haiti on a
    pathway to peace?
        Ms. Douyon. I think the first way will be to ensure that
    civil society plays a really strong role instead of dealing
    with the crisis as a crisis between the President and the
    opposition. Because the youth, the people from the
    accountability movement, we do not believe that all those
    politicians who will want to present to resign are actually fit
    to replace him or to be in charge of the country.
        We want to take the process really seriously and have a
    vetting. We do not want any corrupt officials, whether it is
    from the opposition or from the government party, to be in
    place. And we think that society, the youth, the
    PetroChallengers have to play a key role if we want to move
    forward and avoid chaos.
        We do not want chaos. We do not want an opponent to just
    replace the President. It is not about taking power and just
    keep mining their own business. It is about changing our
    country. It is about doing something new. It is about finally
    taking Haiti away from this mess, if I can say it this way.
        Ms. Pressley. Thank you.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you.
        Talking about strong women, Congresswoman Waters.
        Ms. Waters. Thank you very much.
        First, allow me to thank my colleague, Chairman Albio
    Sires, for organizing this hearing entitled, ``Haiti on the
    Brink: Assessing U.S. Policy Toward a Country in Crisis,'' and
    for inviting me to participate. Haiti is, indeed, a country in
    crisis and we are long overdue for an honest assessment of the
    policies of the United States toward Haiti as this crisis has
    developed.
        In April of this year, I led a delegation to Haiti which
    met with residents of the La Saline neighborhood of Haiti's
    capital and surrounding areas who described acts of
    unconscionable violence that occurred in November 2018. The La
    Saline massacre resulted in the deaths of at least 71
    civilians, in addition to the rape of at least 11 women and the
    looting of more than 150 homes. Survivors expressed concern
    that government-connected gangs, working with police officers,
    carried out the attacks to punish La Saline for participation
    in anti-government protests.
        Now what are these protests all about? We cannot escape
    dealing with the reality of why people are in the streets. And
    I have to disclose that I have supported Haiti in so many ways
    for so many years, and I am a big supporter still of Lavalas.
    President Aristide is not involved in this. He has a university
    that is doing fine. But these massive demonstrations must be
    talked about in realistic ways.
        These protests were sparked by the disappearance of
    millions of dollars of assistance provided to Haiti by
    Venezuela under the PetroCaribe program. Through PetroCaribe,
    Venezuela sold oil to Haiti and allowed them to defer the
    payments for up to 25 years and pay a low rate of interest on
    the debt. Haiti was supposed to sell the oil and use the money
    to pay for social programs.
        Instead, at least $2 billion went missing. That is almost a
    quarter of Haiti's total economy for 2017. A government report
    delivered to the Haitian Senate by official auditors on May
    31st highlighted the corruption. Haitians began demonstrating
    against the government because they knew they never saw the
    benefits of the PetroCaribe program.
        Now, having said that, our government tends to support
    whomever is the President, whoever is the leader of Haiti, no
    matter what. I have been through this through so many
    Presidents starting with Papa Doc and Baby Doc, Preval,
    Martelly, Latortue, and now, Moise.
        I do not know why this President cannot be responsible,
    along with Martelly, for the accountability of the PetroCaribe
    money. The demonstrations are not going to stop. And for those
    who go down there and who send messages, ``Everybody ought to
    get together and they need to come together and they need to
    talk about this,'' there is not going to be any talk. The
    demonstrations are going to go on until this President either
    comes forward and gives some accountability for what has
    happened to this money, and he can bring Martelly along with
    him. Because you all sitting there know what is going on.
        In addition to that, if he cannot do that, they are going
    to demand that he steps down. Now we understand Haiti is a
    sovereign nation. We cannot tell it what to do, but the United
    States and USAID, and everybody that is holding up Moise and
    Martelly and others who are responsible for this money, need to
    come out and talk about this issue.
        Ladies and gentleman, the problem is governance. People
    like to take food and they like to take clothing, and they like
    to support these non-government agencies, but that is not what
    we ought to be doing. We ought to be doing everything that we
    can to call for accountability.
        I want to tell you again, I have been through all of this.
    I love Haiti. I support it. I know that governance is needed.
    And do not forget, I have been through when President Aristide
    was exiled twice, and Clinton got him back once. And then, the
    last time he came back, I went and got him in the Central
    African Republic. We rented a plane and went up and brought him
    back. And he stayed in Africa until he came back. When Baby Doc
    came back, he came back. So, we know this history and we know
    the history of everybody taking advantage of Haiti whenever
    they have the opportunity.
        So, what we need to do is put pressure on the President.
    The President has not came out. He has not talked about what is
    going on. He has not tried to answer anybody. All that he has
    done, in my estimation, is been responsible for some of the
    violence as he tried to quiet the people of La Saline. And many
    of them are Lavalas, not all of them, but many of them are. And
    I support the idea that they can demand from this President and
    this government accountability.
        So, having said all of that, we should stand ready to
    support whatever needs to be done for a transitional
    government, whatever needs to be done for elections. There is
    no judiciary in Haiti at this point. We need to help get
    governance in order in every way that we possibly can.
        But, for those of you here today, this issue really cannot
    be resolved until the President takes responsibility. And our
    position in supporting this President is a failed position. It
    is not a good position.
        With that, I think I have taken up all of my time. But who
    on this panel agrees that there needs to be accountability from
    the President of Haiti?
        [Applause.]
        Mr. Sires. Thank you, Congresswoman.
        Ms. Waters. Thank you. I yield back the balance of my time.
        Mr. Sires. We are going to go a second round. There are a
    couple of members who have a couple of questions.
        Congressman Levin.
        Mr. Levin. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
        I just want to take a few minutes in closing to, first of
    all, recognize the leadership of some of my sisters who
    appeared before us here, and to note that it is not altogether
    common for multiple Members of Congress who have simultaneous
    hearings going on to come and wave onto a subcommittee,
    Chairman Sires, to speak about this. So, I want you to
    understand how much we care about Haiti and how intent we are
    for our country at long last to take a more responsible and
    constructive position. Congresswoman Waters, Congresswoman Lee,
    Congresswoman Pressley, Congresswoman Wilson all came here. So,
    I want to note that.
        Now, Ms. Douyon, let me just pick up something that you
    emphasized in your testimony. I am very concerned that there is
    a notion afoot, and has been for a long time, that Haiti is
    sort of a hopelessly failed state and that it is impossible for
    Haiti to stand up a government based on the rule of law and
    democracy. And I think that is a racist notion.
        I think it is a notion based on hundreds of years of
    colonialism going back to, well, back to when Haiti was a
    colony. But for the many years that France, after Haiti had the
    only successful national-level slave rebellion in history and
    kicked out Napoleon's army, France actually said Haiti had
    stolen its property; namely, themselves and their own land, and
    demanded reparations. And the U.S. supported this position.
    Obviously, I do not need to recite the whole history here.
        But let's talk about how we would actually step by step
    gather together the organizations of the civil society, stand
    up a transitional government, and move toward a new era of real
    sort of bottom-up democracy in Haiti. How do you see that
    happening? What are the steps we need to go through?
        Ms. Douyon. Thank you.
        First of all, I think even if now Haiti is a failed state,
    we are not condemned to being a failed state forever.
        Mr. Levin. Amen.
        Ms. Douyon. And you mentioned Taiwan here, and I am lucky
    enough to have received a scholarship to study in Taiwan. I
    have studied for four and a half years, and I have studied how
    Taiwan went from poverty to the state they are now. This is a
    very inspiring story, and I do not see what prevents Haiti from
    doing the same, except for corrupt officials and the fact that
    the international community is always somehow supporting them.
    Because we all know that those people are not using the foreign
    assistance, for example, to conduct the projects they were
    supposed to do. But, still, they give them more money.
        History has been written now. For example, the U.S. has
    supported the dictatorship of Duvalier, and now it is being
    perceived that we are supporting a corrupt President, the first
    one to be indicted while he is in power and the first one to
    have so many people taking to the street to ask for his
    resignation.
        In fact, we have plans for our country. They are so many
    groups from civil society, the youth, working on a plan, for 30
    years, a development plan, for Haiti. The other one that has
    done the fight against the dictatorship, they are here; they
    want to help. There are so many people committed to fighting
    corruption and to build a new country now, and we need to
    invest in key priorities.
        Haiti needs to be able to identify the priorities. We do
    not need the solutions that are easy for NGO's to run, like
    just distributing food aid. This is not helping. We cannot feed
    2.6 million people forever. Food security, we will not solve it
    by distributing food. We need to strengthen the agricultural
    sector. We need to invest in education.
        People who have studied abroad, a lot of people from my
    generation, we have studied abroad. We are qualified. Yet, we
    cannot answer the public administration because it is crippled
    by corruption. There is no way; they will not let us do
    anything there.
        This is what we want to change. We want to let people give
    those people the opportunity to serve. We need to trust the
    civil society. We need to trust the PetroChallengers. We need
    to trust those people who do not want to give up on Haiti now,
    those people who do not want to leave the country.
        I could have left Haiti. I could have come here. Canada is
    actually----
        Mr. Levin. I am sure you would be very successful here,
    just based on your performance this morning.
        Ms. Douyon. Thank you. Thank you.
        Mr. Levin. No kidding.
        Ms. Douyon. Thank you. I appreciate it.
        Like Canada is attracting all our qualified Haitians. The
    brain drain is really severe. Like if you have a Master's
    degree, at some point you get tired and you leave. We do not
    want this. We want Haitians to serve Haiti, and we can just
    trust those people from the civil society.
        And after that, we fight gang violence because they will
    not let us just change this country. They will fight for their
    interests. They are smuggling merchandise on the border. They
    are having State contracts and it is a lot of contracts. They
    will not let it happen that easily. This is why we need
    support, and this is why we need, also, for the international
    community to believe that we can decide what is good for
    ourselves and we can find a Haitian-led solution to this
    crisis.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you.
        Congressman Meeks.
        Mr. Meeks. Again, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this very,
    very important hearing.
        I listened to my colleague from Massachusetts, and I think
    New York is the second-largest number of Haitians. In Queens, I
    have a tremendous amount.
        And I would be remiss if I did not say that, of course,
    anybody that is from African-American origin owes a deep debt
    of gratitude for the leaders of Haiti who decided that they
    were not going to be slaves and made sure that they wanted to
    be free.
        I also would be remiss if I did not say that one of the
    greatest frustrations that I have had in the 21 years that I
    have been a Member of the U.S. Congress is the fact that, for
    some reason, one way or the other, we seem not to have gotten
    Haiti right, because the situation has not changed. We have had
    hopes at certain times after elections with certain Presidents.
    We thought that we were on a good path. And one way or another,
    something has happened, whether it is corruption that takes
    place, whether the policies of the United States, the money is
    going to the wrong place.
        I know in my own district, to a large part, it is divided,
    depending upon who I talk to. One says to do one thing, that I
    should be doing one thing as a Member of Congress, and another
    group says I should be doing something else that is absolutely
    wrong. But we are trying to figure out how to do it.
        I think, ultimately, the power does rest, when I listen to
    you, Ms. Douyon, in the people of Haiti to decide to come
    together. When I see folks getting together, as I have seen
    recently in Hong Kong, they are fighting for democracy and
    trying to make sure that their voices are heard. Hopefully,
    those voices will break through. The same thing I think has to
    happen. And we do need the fact that we have young people and
    women and others involved in the political process because I do
    not see how we get it done without the political process, and
    to figure out how do we get good people to run and governments
    to be transparent.
        Ultimately, I do not see how the United States is going to
    be able to come in and demand or say that this is the person
    you should vote for, et cetera. It really has to come from the
    ground up and through and by the people of Haiti to make that
    determination. Because we often talk about, when you think
    about colonialism and others, that is when other people come in
    and try to tell folks, ``This is what you need to do. This is
    how you have to do it,'' et cetera. And I do not I want to be
    in a position to do those kinds of things as a U.S. Government.
        That being said, I do not want us to spend our money in the
    wrong place that will cause damage to everyday Haitians. For
    example, one of the things that I was concerned about, I know
    when I talked to the State Department they said that the U.S.
    assistance to the Haitian National Police has helped strengthen
    their capacity and increased their ranks to 15,000. However,
    was that the right thing for us to do, to increase it? Because
    I do not know.
        When I looked at the United Nations High Commissioner for
    Human Rights, they found that at least 42 people have died
    during the recent protests and 86 have been injured. And out of
    the 42 deaths, at least 19 can be attributed to the security
    forces.
        So, do I want to give money to the Haitian National Police
    if, in fact, they are promoting human rights violations? No. Do
    I want to have peace and try to make sure that people are
    protected, so that they can protest and do everything?
    Absolutely. So, I am in a position of trying to determine what
    should we do. What should I do, as a Member of the U.S.
    Congress, in the policies that we put forward and the money
    that we want to invest? Where should we do it? Where should we
    put it? Is it a right thing? Is it a wrong thing?
        So, I have got a minute to go. Do I have anyone to answer
    those questions? Mr. Erikson?
        Mr. Erikson. Sure. I think that one very important role for
    Congress could be to go to Haiti soon and really assess the
    situation.
        Regarding the question of the Haitian National Police, I
    think, ultimately, civilian security in Haiti is going to
    depend on national police, right? We do not want the army to
    come back. But I think that this requires more in-depth
    examination by Congress, either members of this committee or
    others who may be interested to investigate this.
        Thank you.
        Mr. Garrastazu. And just to add to that, I think it is very
    important--you were saying, what should we invest in--I think
    we should invest in local governance, strengthening local
    institutions. I think that is one of the best ways to move
    forward, to really strengthen Haitians, and really also work
    with the grassroots civil society organizations and really
    build them up to be able to be those actors of change, those
    political champions, that can really help move Haiti forward.
        Mr. Meeks. Yes, sir.
        Mr. Esperance. I believe we should keep on reinforcing the
    security, the police force in Haiti. That is the only security
    force that we have in Haiti. It is actually quite credible.
    Other groups would be what we call they are attached to the
    government, but the official force that we should really
    support is the security, the police force. It is true that
    there are issues when it comes to the police force, but that is
    the only one that provides security, and we can even say that
    it is one of the most, if not the most, credible institution
    that we have in Haiti.
        What we need to keep on doing is to de-politicize the
    police force because there are some others that are coming from
    the politicians, from government officials, to some members of
    the police.
        Please do not try to get soldiers and also members of the
    U.N. forces, the blue berets, because they have spent almost 14
    years in Haiti and it is like sucking up money. It is better to
    try to reinforce the security force that we have in Haiti.
        Mr. Meeks. Thank you.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you.
        Congresswoman Wilson.
        Ms. Wilson. Thank you.
        Thank you for your questioning, Mr. Meeks, or Congressman
    Meeks.
        This is a very complex issue. And we live in the United
    States and we have corruption. We have corruption right in our
    White House, just like you have corruption in your President.
    And to find an answer to that corruption, and to remove the
    President of Haiti, there is a process in place and it is
    called impeachment in Haiti.
        What has happened to the impeachment process in Haiti, as
    we try to debate the transitional government which the head of
    the judiciary would be in charge of? Explain all of that to me
    because I hear so many sides of they tried to impeach the
    President, but people did not show up. Or what happened with
    the impeachment of Mr. Moise? Anyone know?
        Ms. Douyon. I think I can comment on this. First of all,
    you mentioned that there is corruption in the U.S. as well, and
    some people say that there is corruption everywhere in the
    world. But this is not the same thing. Haiti is the poorest
    country in the Western Hemisphere. We cannot afford that level
    of corruption we have. And the way it is affecting Haiti, it is
    not affecting the other countries.
        And the impeachment of the President, we had that one
    opportunity for the parliament to impeach the President. We had
    that process. But what happened is that they voted against it.
    But those same parliament members confessed to receiving money
    from the government to vote. Those same parliament members are
    the ones involved in scandals where they are wasting millions
    of goods to buy coffee and water while the people do not have
    access to potable water.
        There is a corrupt parliament where the majority are allies
    of the President and they are basically taking money. It is so
    corrupt that they are allies of the President. Yet, they are
    taking money from the President and his party to vote when he
    needs the effort. So, basically, they came and, then, they did
    not do what they were supposed to do. Most people were
    expecting, because the charges are here, and it could have been
    easy; this would have been done by now, but they did not. Yet,
    they are proud to confess that they received money and it is
    normal.
        And you may have seen on the news that some of them are
    really targeting, like fired a journalist. This is the kind of
    people who are in charge of the impeachment. And it has come to
    no surprise that it did not work.
        Ms. Wilson. What role will they play in a transitional
    government? What role would the government that is in Haiti now
    play in a transitional government? How would that be structured
    with the President and with the parliament and the upper
    chamber, the senators?
        Ms. Douyon. Okay. I just want to add that, for the moment,
    we do not have a legal government. The one we have now is
    illegal. We do not have a government and the President has not
    been able to form one for the past 8 months.
        Ms. Wilson. Because they do not show up to work?
        Ms. Douyon. Because they only show up when they have their
    own interests and they are paid to. Otherwise, like, for
    example, when they wanted to fire the Prime Minister, they all
    showed and it was quick and easy, and they were all proud to
    say how efficient they are. But when they have to show up to do
    their jobs, they do not.
        And the President did not organize an election. Therefore,
    we will not have a parliament next year starting the second
    week of January. He will rule alone by decree. Therefore, we
    will only have 9 or 10 senators. It is not really clear how
    much people will stay because, as always, they always find a
    way to mess things up. So, there can be uncertainty and they
    will have to find a political solution, like it is amended. We
    should know for how long they would stay, somehow knowing
    exactly how many people should stay, but the fact is that we
    will not have a parliament for the second week of January next
    year, and we do not have a government now.
        Ms. Wilson. But do you agree with Mr. Erikson about other
    nations coming in? Can Mr. Erikson repeat what he said in his
    testimony? I want Congressman Meeks to hear him.
        Mr. Erikson. Sure. Just very briefly, I think we are in the
    middle of three crises, right? The historic one that we have
    discussed, the acute political crisis of the last 2 years, and
    the crisis of apathy and indifference in the international
    community. I think this hearing can help to address that latter
    one.
        But my proposal is, while all this good work is going on in
    Haiti, to also re-energize the international community to see
    if it can help with some sort of political process to get Haiti
    past this impasse, which would be not just the United States,
    but the other members of the Core Group, which is a set of
    either countries or international institutions that have
    engaged in Haiti. It has actually been fairly dormant over the
    past 2 years. They include Brazil, Canada, the European Union,
    France, Spain, Germany, as well as the United Nations and
    Organization of American States.
        Ms. Wilson. Thank you. Thank you very much.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you very much. I want to thank the members
    that came to the hearing.
        And I want to thank the witnesses. You have been terrific.
    You have been here for almost as long as the impeachment
    hearing. No.
        [Laughter.]
        But I do thank you for your patience and your courage of
    some of the witnesses that are here today.
        And the challenges facing Haiti are significant and they
    are not going away anytime soon. I look forward to continuing
    to work with my colleagues on a bipartisan basis to see how we
    can best use the resources of the U.S. Government to help lift
    the Haitian people.
        Again, I thank you. I thank all the members who have been
    here.
        With that, this hearing is closed.
        [Whereupon, at 12:29 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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