    [House Hearing, 116 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                     POVERTY IN AMERICA: ECONOMIC REALITIES

                             OF STRUGGLING FAMILIES

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                            COMMITTEE ON THE BUDGET
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                         ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, D.C., JUNE 19, 2019

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 116-11

                                   __________

               Printed for the use of the Committee on the Budget

         POVERTY IN AMERICA: ECONOMIC REALITIES OF STRUGGLING FAMILIES

                     POVERTY IN AMERICA: ECONOMIC REALITIES

                             OF STRUGGLING FAMILIES

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                            COMMITTEE ON THE BUDGET
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                         ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, D.C., JUNE 19, 2019

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 116-11

                                   __________

               Printed for the use of the Committee on the Budget

     [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                       Available on the Internet:
                           www.govinfo.gov

                               ______

                  U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    37-722                  WASHINGTON : 2020

                            COMMITTEE ON THE BUDGET

                      JOHN A. YARMUTH, Kentucky, Chairman
    SETH MOULTON, Massachusetts,         STEVE WOMACK, Arkansas,
      Vice Chairman                        Ranking Member
    HAKEEM S. JEFFRIES, New York         ROB WOODALL, Georgia
    BRIAN HIGGINS, New York              BILL JOHNSON, Ohio,
    BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania         Vice Ranking Member
    RO KHANNA, California                JASON SMITH, Missouri
    ROSA L. DELAURO, Connecticut         BILL FLORES, Texas
    LLOYD DOGGETT, Texas                 GEORGE HOLDING, North Carolina
    DAVID E. PRICE, North Carolina       CHRIS STEWART, Utah
    JANICE D. SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois       RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina
    DANIEL T. KILDEE, Michigan           CHIP ROY, Texas
    JIMMY PANETTA, California            DANIEL MEUSER, Pennsylvania
    JOSEPH D. MORELLE, New York          WILLIAM R. TIMMONS IV, South
    STEVEN HORSFORD, Nevada                  Carolina
    ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia  DAN CRENSHAW, Texas
    SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas            KEVIN HERN, Oklahoma
    BARBARA LEE, California              TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
    PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
    ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota
    ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
    SCOTT H. PETERS, California
    JIM COOPER, Tennessee

                               Professional Staff

                          Ellen Balis, Staff Director
                      Dan Keniry, Minority Staff Director

                                    CONTENTS

                                                                       Page
    Hearing held in Washington D.C., June 19, 2019...................     1

        Hon. John A. Yarmuth, Chairman, Committee on the Budget......     1
            Prepared statement of....................................     4
            Documents submitted for the record.......................     7
        Hon. Steve Womack, Ranking Member, Committee on the Budget...   252
            Prepared statement of....................................   254
        Hon. Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the House......................   256
            Prepared statement of....................................   259
        Rev. Dr. William J. Barber, II, Poor People's Campaign.......   263
            Prepared statement of....................................   265
        Rev. Dr. Liz Theoharis, Poor People's Campaign...............   268
            Prepared statement of....................................   270
        Callie Greer, Poor People's Campaign.........................   273
            Prepared statement of....................................   275
        Kenia Alcocer, Poor People's Campaign........................   277
            Prepared statement of....................................   279
        Christopher Overfelt, Poor People's Campaign.................   281
            Prepared statement of....................................   283
        Savannah Kinsey, Poor People's Campaign......................   285
            Prepared statement of....................................   287
        Pastor Latasha Fields, Christian Home Educators' Support
          System (CHESS).............................................   289
            Prepared statement of....................................   292
        Pastor David Mahan, Frontline Youth Communications...........   296
            Prepared statement of....................................   299
        Hon. Barbara Lee, Member, Committee on the Budget, document
          submitted for the record...................................   325
        Hon. Steven Horsford, Member, Committee on the Budget, letter
          submitted for the record...................................   336
            Article submitted for the record.........................   339
        Hon. Sheila Jackson Lee, Member, Committee on the Budget,
          statement submitted for the record.........................   357
        Hon. Janice D. Schakowsky, Member, Committee on the Budget,
          questions submitted for the record.........................   369
        Hon. Robert C. ``Bobby'' Scott, Member, Committee on the
          Budget, questions submitted for the record.................   371
        Answers to questions submitted for the record................   372

         POVERTY IN AMERICA: ECONOMIC REALITIES OF STRUGGLING FAMILIES

                                  ----------

                            WEDNESDAY, JUNE 19, 2019

                              House of Representatives,
                                       Committee on the Budget,
                                                       Washington, D.C.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:11 a.m., in
    Room 210, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. John A. Yarmuth
    [Chairman of the Committee] presiding.
        Present: Representatives Yarmuth, Jeffries, Boyle, Khanna,
    DeLauro, Doggett, Price, Kildee, Panetta, Morelle, Horsford,
    Scott, Lee, Jayapal, Sires, Peters, Cooper, Omar; Womack,
    Johnson, Smith, Flores, Meuser, Timmons, Crenshaw, Hern,
    Burchett, Roy, and Stewart.
        Also present: Speaker Pelosi.
        Chairman Yarmuth. The hearing will come to order. Good
    morning, and welcome to the Budget Committee's hearing on
    Poverty in America: Economic Realities of Struggling Families.
        I want to welcome our witnesses here with us today. This
    morning we will be hearing from several leaders from the Poor
    People's Campaign: Reverend Dr. William J. Barber, II; Reverend
    Dr. Liz Theoharis; Ms. Callie Greer; Ms. Kenia Alcocer; Mr.
    Christopher Overfelt; and Ms. Savannah Kinsey. We are also
    pleased to have Pastor Latasha Fields, from the Christian Home
    Educators' Support System, and Pastor David Mahan from
    Frontline Youth Communications.
        And we are also honored to have Speaker Nancy Pelosi with
    us this morning. And I ask unanimous consent that the Speaker
    be permitted to sit at the dais and participate in today's
    hearing.
        Without objection, so ordered.
        It also is possible that we will have votes during this
    hearing. I ask unanimous consent that the Chair be authorized
    to declare a recess at any time.
        Without objection, so ordered. I will now yield myself five
    minutes for my opening statement.
        Again, the hearing has come to order. Good morning,
    everyone, and thank you for joining us. I would like to welcome
    once again our panel of witnesses. We appreciate you coming
    here to help us engage in a meaningful discussion on the
    character of our country and the ongoing struggle with poverty
    and economic injustices faced by far too many Americans.
        I would also like to thank Congressman Barbara Lee--
    Congresswoman Barbara Lee for her leadership on this issue, and
    her work to bring attention to this ongoing crisis through the
    Poverty Task Force.
        The statistics on poverty are jarring. As of 2017,
    according to the Census, nearly 40 million people, or more than
    one in 10 Americans, lives in poverty. But that number, as I
    know our witnesses will testify to, fails to account for the
    tens of millions of more Americans who still struggle to make
    ends meet. At the same time, 90 percent of households account
    for less than 23 percent of the nation's income.
        This past Sunday marked the longest period of time in U.S.
    history without an increase in the federal minimum wage, and
    overall wage growth, after adjusting for inflation, has
    remained nearly stagnant for 40 years. Meanwhile, housing
    prices have gone up. Prices have gone up dramatically in many
    areas of the country. Tuition costs have skyrocketed. And
    Americans are paying more for nearly every expense.
        These facts are important, but they tell only part of the
    story. The purpose of this hearing is to shine a light on the
    challenges that Americans face in meeting their basic human
    needs. We will hear from people who experience these challenges
    firsthand, and whose lives are directly impacted by the
    decisions and policies made in Washington. That is not to say
    that the federal government isn't already playing an important
    role in the lives of American families working their way up the
    economic ladder. Critical investments in federal programs have
    kept millions of Americans above the poverty line and have cut
    the poverty rate nearly in half over the last 50 years.
        Medicaid and CHIP provide health coverage to 73 million
    Americans, including more than one in three children. To date,
    33 states and the District of Columbia have expanded their
    Medicaid programs to low-income working-age adults, helping to
    bring the nation's uninsured rate to a record low. The
    Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP, provides
    nutrition assistance to nearly 43 million Americans each month,
    including 1.4 million veterans. The Child Care and Development
    Block Grants supported nearly 800,000 families, ensuring
    children were cared for while parents worked to put food on the
    table. The Earned Income Tax Credit has lifted millions of
    workers out of poverty, instead of being taxed into it. And in
    2017 more than 5 million households received assistance with
    heating and cooling costs through the Low Income Home Energy
    Assistance Program, helping families stay safe and healthy.
        Though we need to be doing far more, not less. For decades
    efforts in Washington to close the gap between ongoing efforts
    to fight poverty and what is needed to fully address this
    crisis have been inadequate.
        But now these programs and the millions they serve are
    under constant attack. Rather than increasing investments and
    evidence-based programs that help more struggling Americans get
    ahead, the Administration is proposing to change the way they
    measure the poverty rate, and a backdoor attempt to cut off
    vital aid to potentially millions of Americans. There have also
    been consistent attempts by states to impose so-called work
    requirements on Medicaid recipients that only serve to deny
    health care to people. The governor of my home state, by his
    own admission, said his Medicaid waiver request will take
    potentially lifesaving health care coverage away from more than
    90,000 Kentuckians. And the Trump Administration hasn't stopped
    there. They have rescinded regulations on payday loan lenders
    that prey on those in poverty, proposed cuts of $220 billion to
    SNAP, and sought to eliminate LIHEAP.
        Many will differ on the role of the federal government in
    combating poverty. But we shouldn't differ on one concept: the
    more we can do to lift people out of poverty, the better our
    budgetary future will look. Poverty is more than just a policy
    issue; it is a challenge to the conscience of our nation. That
    is why I am thankful to have the opportunity today to learn
    about the real, everyday experiences of our witnesses, and to
    debunk some of the myths surrounding this vital issue.
        We need to be making a stronger investment in our people,
    all our people, so every American has the opportunity to thrive
    and succeed. I am sure we will hear a lot of ideas and
    different points of view today as we look at ways to help
    working families and struggling Americans, which is the point
    of this hearing. Whether it is practical, or aspirational, or
    even designed to take a sledgehammer to the status quo, we want
    to provide a platform for community leaders and those directly
    impacted by federal policies to share their ideas.
        Once again, I would like to thank the Poor People's
    Campaign and our witnesses for joining us. I look forward to
    your testimony.
        [The prepared statement of Chairman Yarmuth follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Yarmuth. Now I ask unanimous consent to submit two
    documents from the Poor People's Campaign, the moral budget and
    the audit, in the record.
        Without objection, so ordered.
        [The information follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Yarmuth. I now yield five minutes to the Ranking
    Member, Mr. Womack.
        Mr. Womack. I thank the Chairman. Good morning, everyone.
        Exploring ways to help lift people out of poverty is not
    new to this Committee. In fact, led by then-Committee Chairman
    Paul Ryan, budget Republicans have a long history of
    championing policies and programs that help low-income
    Americans climb the economic ladder, earn their own success,
    and escape the cycle of poverty. On this issue we often hear
    some of our friends across the aisle say that, the bigger the
    price tag, the better the policy. That may sound good on paper,
    but in practice it does not achieve the results Americans
    deserve, especially when it comes to reducing poverty.
        In 1964 President Lyndon Johnson declared the war on
    poverty with a goal of not only alleviating the symptoms of
    those in poverty, but also preventing poverty altogether. Since
    then the federal government has directed tens of trillions of
    dollars towards scores of anti-poverty programs across more
    than a dozen different agencies. Despite these investments, the
    poverty rate has only marginally declined. If history is any
    indicator, more spending, bigger government, and higher taxes--
    those solutions that have far too often been proposed by some
    of my friends on the other side of the aisle--are not the tools
    we need to truly move the needle. Those may address what
    President Johnson called the symptoms of poverty, but they are
    not curing it.
        According to a recent poll by YouGov, 63 percent of
    Americans enrolled in some type of anti-poverty program believe
    the war on poverty is failing. The same poll found that 76
    percent of those enrolled in those programs believe the
    government should focus on creating more opportunities to climb
    the economic ladder, not increasing government spending.
        In fact, adding more dollar signs to our enormous debt will
    only lead to higher taxes. That often penalizes those who can
    least afford them, making it even harder to escape the cycle of
    poverty. I am especially concerned by the proposed tax
    increases on low-income Americans that many in Congress are
    considering, including new payroll taxes and energy taxes. They
    hit the vulnerable the hardest.
        So what has paved a pathway out of poverty for low-income
    Americans? I believe a strong economy, which creates more
    opportunities to find a job, earn a paycheck, get ahead.
    Following historic tax cuts and deregulation, families are
    seeing more jobs. They are seeing bigger paychecks, with
    average hourly earnings increasing by more than 3 percent, and
    the unemployment rate has dropped to 3.6 percent, its lowest
    level in a half-century.
        We should be focused on policies that continue this trend,
    and help more people earn their own success, linking--including
    linking more anti-poverty programs to employment opportunities.
    Serving our country has also paved a pathway out of poverty for
    many Americans. They have been given an education, learned
    skills that are applicable to business and other fields, they
    have learned leadership skills, and the value of working in
    teams. As someone who spent 30 years in uniform in the Arkansas
    National Guard, and as someone who chairs the Board of Visitors
    at the United States Military Academy at West Point, I have
    seen firsthand how our military has helped improve the lives of
    young men and women from challenging circumstances.
        And I know I am not alone. There are seven veterans and one
    member currently serving on this Committee: five, including
    myself on our side of the aisle; three on the Democrat side.
    And I would also like to take this opportunity to thank them
    for their service.
        Perhaps we can explore this notion of service for
    individuals and the opportunities made available later in life
    by the U.S. military as just one component of an anti-poverty
    program that I think that works.
        I also look forward to hearing about the roles of our
    families and communities, and their--that they are playing and
    helping reduce poverty, from providing on-the-job training
    opportunities, to counseling troubled youth, to ensuring young
    people have access to a quality education, regardless of their
    zip code.
        I don't think there is a person up here who doesn't want to
    help every American achieve the American Dream. But our success
    should not be measured by dollars spent or beneficiaries added.
    It should be measured by how many people we are helping lift
    permanently out of poverty so they can earn a living, provide a
    better life for themselves and their families.
        And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back my time.
        [The prepared statement of Steve Womack follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Yarmuth. I thank the Ranking Member for his
    opening remarks. I would now like to welcome the Speaker of the
    House, Nancy Pelosi, to our hearing today. Her continued
    dedication to helping the one in five children that live in
    poverty is what took her from kitchen to Congress, as she likes
    to say. And America's children have greatly benefitted from
    having such an advocate and leader in their corner. I am very
    pleased to now recognize the Speaker of the House, Nancy
    Pelosi, for her opening remarks.
        Speaker Pelosi. I thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for
    your--of giving me the opportunity. I thank the bipartisan
    leadership of the Committee for the unanimous consent for the
    Speaker to be allowed to participate, to listen to the
    testimony, and to share a few thoughts with you.
        Mr. Chairman, you really--poverty in America, economic
    realities of struggling families, that being the title, I thank
    you so much for making this opportunity possible for us to
    hear. And with all due respect to the distinguished Ranking
    Member, after listening to his statement, all the more reason
    we need to hear from our witnesses as to how public policy
    affects them.
        The hearing is distinguished by the testimony of leaders of
    the Poor People's Campaign. We are grateful for the opportunity
    to listen and learn from Reverend William Barber, Reverend Dr.
    Liz Theoharis, and others. I associate myself with your welcome
    to them all.
        Last fall that Poor People's Campaign sent a letter to
    Congress, calling for a hearing on policy harming America's
    children. They wrote, ``Somebody has been hurting our children,
    and it has gone on far too long, and we won't be silent
    anymore.'' Well, we didn't get that hearing then. We had our
    own rump hearing. But now, today, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for
    making this hearing possible.
        As the Chairman said, my motivation to be in politics, my
    why for being in government and politics is the one in five
    children who lives in poverty in America. I have five--my
    husband and I have five children, we see what it takes to raise
    a family, and even under great circumstances there are
    challenges. And it just bothered me so that one in five
    children in America go to sleep hungry at night. How could this
    be in the greatest country that ever existed in the history of
    the world, that one in five children--at least--lives in
    poverty in America?
        And so we must have public policy that does better. And as
    the distinguished Ranking Member said, we still have
    challenges, even though we had a war on poverty. But just think
    of what the challenge would be if we had not had that war on
    poverty.
        And here we are in the Budget Committee. A budget, a
    federal budget, should be a statement of our national values.
    What is important to us as a nation should be reflected in how
    we allocate our resources. And we have to stand for the
    education and health, education and well-being of the--all of
    the American people in the budget we put forth. We must fight
    for investments in economic justice and human dignity,
    recognizing, as Dr. King said, that our struggle is for genuine
    equality, which means economic equality.
        Dr. King's words ring with the same resounding moral force
    today as he said, ``What does it profit a man to be able to eat
    at an integrated lunch counter, if he doesn't earn enough money
    to buy a hamburger and a cup of coffee?'' These words are
    echoed in the Poor People's Campaign's moral budget, which
    states everyone has a right to live.
        We thank the Poor People's Campaign for conducting your
    audit of injustices, the souls of poor folk, which presents a
    stark reminder of the challenges that remain today. Fifty-one
    years after Dr. King launched the Poor People's Campaign to
    fully, finally end poverty, 51 years after workers of every
    background marched for their dignity, bringing the priorities
    of America's neediest families to the nation's capital, 51
    years later, America is still a land of stunning injustice.
        Our work is far from done: 140 million Americans are poor
    in our country. As Members of Congress we have an urgent moral
    duty to make good on the promissory note of the rights
    enshrined in our founding documents. Our nation's founding
    ideals, liberty and justice for all, can only be fulfilled if
    we have economic justice led by a government that is in the
    public interest, not the special interest. And that is why we
    are grateful for the consideration here of a budget.
        Just to remind, education is so central to the economic
    well-being of America's children and working families. Nothing
    brings more money to the treasury, nothing brings more money to
    the treasury than investments in education and early childhood
    K through 12, higher ed, like post-grad, lifetime learning for
    our workers. This is the investment that people want to make in
    their children, that our country must make in our future. And
    it is an investment that has a return.
        Medicare, Medicaid initiatives that have helped meet the
    needs of America's working families are so important, and
    should be not--should not be undermined in any budget. And the
    distinguished Ranking Member mentioned increasing the national
    debt. We certainly should not have a budget that gives a tax
    break to the--83 percent of the benefits to the top 1 percent,
    while adding $2 trillion to the national debt, adding to the
    debt that will be incurred by our children.
        Our children, our children, our children. When people ask
    what are the three most important issues facing the Congress, I
    always say the same thing. Our children, our children, our
    children, their health, their education, the economic success--
    security of their families, and a safe environment.
    Environmental justice is so important that we focused on in our
    last hearing. Environmental justice, clean air, clean water for
    them to thrive in a world at peace in which they can reach
    their fulfillment.
        And so--and I am proud to be here to offer some element of
    concern, confident in our commitment to ending poverty in
    America, led by our distinguished Chair of our Steering
    Committee, Barbara Lee, a Member of this Budget Committee,
    confident about what we believe in and what we want to do,
    humble enough to listen to how public policy has an impact, and
    to listen to more--newer, fresher ideas, fresh eyes on the
    subject from where it is most felt.
        So we want to again thank the Chairman, and also call upon
    our Republican colleagues to help us with issues like raising
    the minimum wage, lowering the cost of prescription drugs,
    issues like that which raise the paycheck, lower costs to
    families. In our work we must be one, coming together in a
    spirit of dangerous unselfishness.
        The Congress cannot succeed in our inside maneuvering
    without the outside mobilization. We will make our legislation
    for the good of the American people and our children. That is
    being rejected by the Senate, too hot for them to handle--by
    public believing in and having confidence in the public
    sentiment to make the Senate accountable as well, when it comes
    to meeting the needs of America's working families, and
    reducing the level of poverty in our country, and reducing the
    number of poor people in our country.
        Your contribution, intellectual contribution, to us today
    is immeasurable. We are grateful to you for it, but, more
    importantly, for the work that you do every day to meet the
    needs of America's working families, especially those on the
    border line, or live in poverty on the border line of being
    poor in our country. It is an injustice. We must address it,
    and we must address it in a way that is respectful of the
    dignity and worth of every person, the spark of divinity that
    exists in every person, so that we are respectful of other
    views.
        And Mr. Womack, I say to you I am guided by the words of
    our founder, ``E pluribus unum,'' from many, one. They couldn't
    imagine how many we would be, or how different we would be from
    each other. But we knew that, in striving for solutions, we had
    to be unifying and not dividing. And it is in that spirit of
    `dangerous unselfishness' and welcome our guests.
        Thank you, Mr. Yarmuth, Mr. Chairman, and Mr. Womack, for
    providing us with this opportunity. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Nancy Pelosi follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you, Madam Speaker, for your
    remarks. In the interest of time, if any other member has an
    opening statement, you may submit that statement in writing for
    the record.
        Once again, I would like to thank our witnesses for being
    here this morning. The Committee has received your written
    statements. They will be made part of the formal hearing
    record. Each of you will have five minutes to testify.
        First we will recognize Dr. Barber.
        You may begin when you are ready. You are recognized for
    five minutes.

      STATEMENT OF REV. DR. WILLIAM J. BARBER, II, POOR PEOPLE'S
       CAMPAIGN; REV. DR. LIZ THEOHARIS, POOR PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN;
       CALLIE GREER, POOR PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN; KENIA ALCOCER, POOR
        PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN; CHRISTOPHER OVERFELT, POOR PEOPLE'S
       CAMPAIGN; SAVANNAH KINSEY, POOR PEOPLE'S CAMPAIGN; PASTOR
       LATASHA FIELDS, CHRISTIAN HOME EDUCATORS' SUPPORT SYSTEM
    (CHESS); AND PASTOR DAVID MAHAN, FRONTLINE YOUTH COMMUNICATIONS

              STATEMENT OF REV. DR. WILLIAM J. BARBER, II

        Rev. Dr. Barber. Chairman Yarmuth and Ranking Member Womack
    and Members of this Committee, I am Reverend Dr. William J.
    Barber, II, from North Carolina. I am the son of a Navy man who
    gave first-class service for--first-class blood and service for
    second-class citizenship. I am here as part African-American,
    part Tuscaroran, and part white, so I am diversity looking
    directly at you.
        I am also speaking here today on the thousands of people of
    every race, creed, and color, gender, and sexuality in the 40
    states and District of Columbia that are part of the Poor
    People's Campaign, a national call for a moral revival.
        I want it to be acknowledged today that I--we are here on
    the 150th year anniversary of Juneteenth, when slaves finally
    found out that the Emancipation Proclamation had been written.
    And here, 51 years after the Poor People's Campaign, it is time
    for Americans to find out the truth about poverty for all
    Americans.
        The growing gap between the rich and the poor in this
    country is a direct result of policy decisions, not the
    immorality and the lack of personal work of poor people, policy
    decisions made here in Washington and in our state capitals.
    But those decisions have been supported by well-funded myths.
    Corporate interests have sent their representatives here to
    preach personal responsibility and the danger of government
    intervention. But the truth is we must take a collective
    responsibility for the inequality, the unjust laws and systems
    created. God did not make us poor. Greed and abuse and power
    make us poor.
        In this hearing room you are seated here as Members of
    Congress on the left and on the right, demanding--on party
    affiliation. Our campaign agenda is neither left nor right. It
    aims to challenge both sides of the aisle. It aims to reach
    toward the moral high ground. The agenda is rooted in the
    religious values of the prophet of Isaiah, that every
    legislator ought to hear again, since you put your hands on the
    Bible to swear yourselves into office. Woe unto those who
    legislate evil and rob the poor of their rights and make women
    and children their prey.
        You should hear what Jesus said, not to churches and
    personal charity, but to nations: ``When I was hungry, did you
    feed me? When I was a stranger, an immigrant, did you receive
    me? When I was sick, did you care for me?'' Because every
    nation will be judged by God for how it treats the least of
    these.
        Our religious values are--call us--and our constitutional
    values, which call us to the issue of justice, establishing
    justice, to put the marginalized and the poor at the center of
    our public policy.
        We began three years ago. We have been all over this
    country, from Kansas, to Arizona, to eastern Kentucky, to
    eastern North Carolina. We have met with Republicans, and
    Democrats, and blacks, and whites, and gay, and straight, and
    all of them are saying the 140 million--we first must get the
    numbers right, it is 140 million poor and low-wealth people in
    this country. There are 140 million: 39 million children, 21
    million seniors, 65.8 million men, 74 million women, 26 million
    black people, 38 million Latinx people, 8 million Asian people,
    2.4 native and indigenous people, and 66 million white people,
    and they are not poor because they are lazy or because they
    don't engage in personal responsibility.
        They are poor because of the systemic realities that
    connect: systemic racism, systemic poverty, ecological
    devastation, the war economy, and the false moral narratives
    that suggest that somehow you can ignore poverty, ignore
    poverty.
        We must count 43.5 percent of our nation. No nation can
    survive when 43.5 percent of its people are poor and low wealth
    and that is not at the center of our public discussions. Sixty-
    two million people who work every day for less than a living
    wage, 37 million people without health care, even with the
    Affordable Care Act. And I am from the South, where 50--where
    one-third of all the poor people live, and it is almost even,
    black and white. Fifty-some million poor people and low-income
    people, and 13 million people uninsured.
        Poverty is a moral crisis. The federal government, state
    governments, we do not need more tax cuts for the rich. We do
    not need more missiles. We need to hear and see the voices and
    faces of the poverty. We must end this systemic policy violence
    against poor and low-wealth people.
        This is the moral mandate for our nation at this moment.
    The work of reconstructing America is not done, and we must do
    it together, and nothing less than the promise of our democracy
    is at stake. To not deal with poverty is constitutionally
    inconsistent, it is economically insane, and it is morally,
    morally, morally wrong.
        Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Rev. Dr. William J. Barber
    follows:]

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        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you for your testimony.
        I now recognize Reverend Dr. Theoharis for five minutes.

                  STATEMENT OF REV. DR. LIZ THEOHARIS

        Rev. Dr. Theoharis. Thank you, Chairman Yarmuth, Ranking
    Member Womack, and Members of this Committee for this
    opportunity to speak with you today.
        I come to you this morning an ordained minister, a biblical
    scholar, and someone who has been organizing amongst the poor
    and homeless for over 25 years, first with the National Union
    of the Homeless, the National Welfare Rights Union, and today,
    proudly, with the Poor People's Campaign, a national call for
    moral revival.
        Over the past years the Poor People's Campaign has been
    building committees of poor and dispossessed people, moral
    leaders, activists, advocates in more than 40 states across
    this country. We have met with tens of thousands, hundreds of
    thousands of people, and chronicled their demands for a better
    society. We have spent time in my home state of Wisconsin,
    where the safety net has been shredded over the past decade.
    Families go without water and heat, even in the cold winter.
        We have been in Crossett, Arkansas, where a whole town has
    been poisoned by a paper plant. Grandparents have to meet their
    grandkids 80 miles from home, just to make sure they are not
    exposed to those toxins.
        We have been in Pacoima, California, where one in four
    children in the Telfair Elementary School are homeless, are
    without a home, and Altoona, Pennsylvania, where children,
    young children, babies, are being taken away from their parents
    who love them, who care for them, who want to raise them,
    because they can't pay some of the highest water bills in the
    country.
        Together we developed a moral agenda, a moral agenda that
    calls for the elimination of systemic racism, and poverty,
    ecological devastation, and militarism in the war economy. It
    calls for a challenge of this distorted moral narrative that
    blames the poor for our poverty, tries to pit us against each
    other, and feeds us the lie that there isn't enough when we
    have beautiful, God-given abundance in this world.
        You on this Budget Committee know that talk is cheap.
    Ultimately, it is our deeds that matter. Budgets reflect our
    deepest values, our most important priorities. And we are here
    to say this morning that our nation's budget, as it now stands,
    reflects the values of the rich, of large corporations, of
    military contractors at the expense of poor, suffering
    children, families.
        We are here to say that we need a moral revolution of
    values that places the needs and demands of the poor and at
    the--of the planet at the heart of the budget. This will create
    more jobs, build up our infrastructure, strengthen our economy,
    and protect our resources today and for future generations.
    When you lift from the bottom, everybody rises.
        So I know this from economics and social science. I have
    also read it in the Bible. Deuteronomy says if you forgive
    debts, and you increase programs that lift up the poor, if you
    pay your workers a living wage, and you release those who are
    oppressed, if you lend out money knowing you may not get paid
    back, your whole society will be lifted up. Your whole nation
    will flourish.
        Poverty is people's creation. It is their creation of
    immoral budgets and unjust policies. And we can choose to end
    it. The poor will only be with us as long as we are disobedient
    to God and to the founding creed of this nation.
        Thank you for listening.
        [The prepared statement of Rev. Dr. Liz Theoharis follows:]

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        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you for your testimony.
        I now recognize Ms. Callie Greer for five minutes.

                       STATEMENT OF CALLIE GREER

        Ms. Greer. Thank you, Members of the Committee. Thank you,
    Committee, for having me here today. My name is Callie Greer. I
    am a mother of five. And I have lost two of my children for
    unnecessary reasons. I am here to talk about Venus.
        Venus should be here with us today. So Venus started
    complaining about a little knot she had on her breast. And so
    she wasn't employed, and didn't have any insurance. She
    started--she did what we do in our community, she started
    visiting an emergency room. And so she would go, and they would
    just send her out, and she kept complaining about the knot, and
    they didn't do anything for her for a while.
        Then one night she went to the emergency room, and the
    doctor walked in the room, and he is like, ``What is that
    smell?''
        And Venus said, ``It is my breast. It is rottening (sic).''
        So that is when Venus got some help. She was diagnosed with
    stage four cancer, and was sent to the counsel center, and she
    had a radical mastectomy, and went into chemo and radiation.
    For a while Venus was in remission. About six months later she
    went back, and the cancer was everywhere. She had spots on her
    lung, on bones, on her liver.
        And so Venus had to have a lot of medications and
    treatments from the doctors. But everything Venus had to--was--
    needed, she had to be approved for it. She had to wait to be
    approved for the medication. So she would wait weeks and
    sometimes months to get things that she needed.
        Well, one of the hardest parts of that was for my husband.
    When Venus was waiting for oxygen, she had to wait about two
    months for the oxygen. But during that time they had--around
    the house, yes, so that was real hard on him, to have to carry
    his baby around the house. And every time he picked her up she
    was lighter and lighter and lighter.
        So one day Venus--one Friday Venus came to sit in the chair
    of the living room, and she said, ``Mama,'' she said, ``My head
    hurts me so bad I can't see.''
        So we went--we took her to the counsel center, and they
    rushed her to the emergency room. And she had been waiting on a
    CAT scan that she hadn't gotten. So when we got her there she
    lapsed into a coma. She got the CAT scan. She had two tumors in
    her head, and one had ruptured. She was brain dead.
        So--yes. Where I live we can't just get a mammogram. You
    have to have a prescription. So since she didn't have a doctor,
    she couldn't get the mammogram. But if she had had a doctor, if
    she had, Venus would be here with us.
        How much would you pay to have your baby saved? You got a
    dollar sign out of the top of your head? Got a number, how much
    you--because Venus should be here. She should not--I should not
    be here. So, since she is not here, I am here for her. And I am
    here for the other 140 million people that are struggling and
    bearing our babies because they don't have health care
    insurance, something that we shouldn't have to ask for.
        We shouldn't have to ask for this, something that you
    wouldn't even take this job if couldn't get. We shouldn't have
    to ask for this. It is a human right. We shouldn't be bearing
    our babies like this.
        I am a little off-script, but I just wanted to let you know
    that I am here with the Poor People's Campaign, and I am
    fighting this fight. And I am representing 140 million people
    today, 140 million. And we are here. We ain't going nowhere.
    Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Callie Greer follows:]

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          Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you, Ms. Greer.
        I now recognize Ms. Alcocer for five minutes.

                       STATEMENT OF KENIA ALCOCER

        Ms. Alcocer. Thank you, Members of the Committee for this
    opportunity. My name is Kenia Alcocer.
        I came to this country from Guerrero--Acapulco Guerrero,
    Mexico as a small child, because my mother was escaping
    poverty. She wanted to give me and my sisters a better life,
    and she worked very, very hard for it, sometimes working two to
    three jobs at a time. She was a cook in two restaurants, and
    was a caretaker for an elderly family, an elderly couple. When
    she would lose a job she would do anything to make sure that we
    were provided for. She was even a street vendor at times.
        Families like mine are very common and have many
    challenges. Because of poverty and systemic racism, families
    who are undocumented often have to do multiple jobs, get paid
    under the table, and often that comes with discrimination and
    mistreatment. To get by, people in our community have to create
    survival methods, such as getting together to share meals,
    taking care of each other's children, and creating a community
    around us to make sure that we have safety nets.
        Today I have come from east Los Angeles because I must
    fight to advocate for my daughter, all children in my
    community. No parent should live with the fear of having their
    children be taken away from them. I sometimes have that fear
    that immigration officers might come and take me away, and that
    my child will be ripped from my arms. I fight for the day when
    no child has to worry about clean water, a good education, or
    health care.
        As Members of the Budget Committee, you have tremendous
    power to shift U.S. priorities in ways that it would help 140
    million poor and low-income people, and for them to have better
    lives.
        You could decide, for example, that it is more important to
    put children into Head Start than into detention centers. Last
    year, one of the corporations that operate detention centers
    got $234 million to buy beds for children. With that money you
    could have found Head Start for more than 26,000 children.
        One policy gives children lifelong benefits; the other one
    destroys lives. In fact, we have had five children die in
    detention centers this year. Thousands are being traumatized.
    You could decide that it is more important to send children to
    college than to send ICE agents to raid workplaces and separate
    families. Many poor people like me would like to go to college,
    but we know that there is not enough financial support, even
    though we know that the benefits of public investment in higher
    education far outweighs the cost.
        Meanwhile, the government has had no trouble finding money
    to stop people from pursuing the right to live with dignity and
    humanity. The United States spends more money, eight times more
    money, on immigration deportation and border policies per year
    now than it did in 1976.
        President Trump would like to spend tens of billions of
    dollars on a border wall. He claims immigrants are an economic
    burden, that we steal jobs, and public assistance money. The
    exact opposite is true. The Congressional Budget Office found
    that, if the United States accepted more immigrants, it would
    create--and created a path to a legal status, the benefits
    would outweigh the costs by nearly $20 billion a year.
        Immigrants contribute to the society every day. They work
    in your communities. They are the gardeners that are mowing
    your lawn, the cooks, like my mother, that are preparing your
    food, the farm workers who are picking your fruits and
    vegetables, the nannies who are raising your children. Many of
    us have been forced to become leaders in our communities to
    advocate for our rights and to fight to have a life that we are
    not just surviving through, but that we are able to live
    through with dignity.
        I am co-director of Union de Vecinos, and I am the Chair of
    the California Poor People's Campaign, a national call for
    moral revival. And we are joining a larger community, a
    community of poor and dispossessed across this country that are
    yelling and screaming at you. We are the Poor People's
    Campaign, a national call for moral revival, and we need you.
        You have been elected to guide this nation. And today we
    are here to tell you that we need you to end this war economy.
    You hold in your hand not just the power, but the lives of
    millions of poor people.
        My mother crossed a desert to give me a life with dignity
    and basic human needs: a home, food, and education. I will
    continue to fight to make sure everybody lives without poverty,
    systemic racism, ecological devastation, and a violent war
    economy. And I hope you will, too. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Kenia Alcocer follows:]

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        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you for your testimony.
        I now recognize Mr. Overfelt for five minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER OVERFELT

        Mr. Overfelt. My name is Chris Overfelt, and I am with
    Veterans for Peace. Thank you, Mr. Yarmuth and Mr. Womack. I
    want you to know that there is not a day in my life that I am
    not grateful to live under a representative government. Thank
    you to all of the leaders here.
        I want to say that I am not here to try and make you think
    a certain way. I am here to present a different side of the
    conversation, and you can decide what you think is right. It is
    vital to our democracy that we can disagree and still respect
    one another.
        I was an aircraft mechanic in the Air Force National Guard.
    I was based at Forbes Field in Topeka, Kansas from 2002 to
    2011. I worked on the KC-135 aircraft, the airplane that
    refuels other planes in the air, and I deployed to Turkey and
    Qatar during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Neither of these
    countries will likely recover from that devastation in my
    lifetime. Nothing I can do in my life will make up for the
    hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Afghan men, women, and
    children killed in these useless wars.
        Since our invasion of these countries, terrorism has
    proliferated tenfold around the world. When I joined the
    military I had no idea that never in its history has the
    Department of Defense done an internal audit of its spending,
    despite it being mandated by law. It doesn't know how much
    money it is spending, and it doesn't know how it is spending
    it. It is a black hole for money.
        A 2016 inspector general's report revealed that, over the
    past two decades, the Pentagon cannot account for how it spent
    $6.5 trillion. The Pentagon budget routinely accounts for half
    of the federal discretionary budget. It is no secret that there
    is always enough money for weapons and jails, and never enough
    for education and the poor. Instead of this money going to
    health care and education for our citizens who so desperately
    need it, it goes to Boeing, it goes to Lockheed Martin, it goes
    to Raytheon, it goes to Northrop Grumman, and the list goes on
    and on and on.
        When I joined the military I had no idea that we have 800
    military bases, worldwide. Why do we keep such a strong
    presence throughout the world? It's not to keep us safe. It is
    to provide western capital with continuous access to foreign
    resources and markets. Most of the military budget is used, not
    to fight wars, but to exercise soft power in the support of
    American capital.
        When I joined the military I had no idea that all across
    the world the United States supports fascist governments
    through military training and arms deals, to ensure that they
    serve the interests of foreign capital, and not the people that
    they rule over. Honduras, Guatemala, Colombia, Egypt, Saudi
    Arabia, Qatar, UAE, and Bahrain, the list goes on and on. And I
    want to be clear: This does not make us safe, it makes us less
    safe.
        And Mr. Womack, I appreciate your comments about getting
    job skills from the military. I am very grateful for getting my
    education and my skills as a mechanic, and the mentorship I
    received from the great people in the military. But we do not
    have to use systems of violence and brutality to try and
    alleviate poverty here at home.
        When I left the military in 2011 I began substitute
    teaching in Kansas City, and working at an agricultural
    mentorship for young people. I've met people here who have also
    suffered from these wars and the misplaced spending priorities
    that support them. On my farm and in my classroom in Kansas
    City I work with communities that are in direct need of
    funding. Instead of health care, schools, and early childhood
    education programs, they only get a militarized police force
    and punitive mass incarceration programs.
        Thirty-nine percent Missourians are low-income, and black
    residents are incarcerated four times the rate of white
    residents.
        We need to change the war economy, and use these funds to
    provide health care and education to everyone. The moral budget
    says we can save $350 billion by redirecting our foreign policy
    away from war and militarism, closing our overseas bases, and
    refusing to subsidize military contractors. We can also cut 25
    percent of the $179 billion spent on mass incarceration in the
    form of police courts and private contractors.
        I want to end by saying that I come here to ask that we
    stop funding systems of violence and brutality, and start
    funding systems of love that support people in our communities.
    Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Christopher Overfelt follows:]

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        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you for your testimony.
        And now I recognize Ms. Kinsey for five minutes.

                      STATEMENT OF SAVANNAH KINSEY

        Ms. Kinsey. Thank you. My name is Savannah Kinsey, and I
    want to thank you for this opportunity. I am 22 years old, a
    member of the LGBTQ community, and I am from Johnstown,
    Pennsylvania, which is a town of about 20,000 people in western
    Pennsylvania. The population of Johnstown is about 77 percent
    white, 14 percent African-American, and 4 percent Latino. I
    graduated from Greater Johnstown High in 2014, and even though
    I graduated, everyday life is still very challenging. This is
    because the school system is very flawed and doesn't teach the
    real history of this country.
        Education should teach all of us to hear and understand
    everyone's differences and backgrounds that they have come
    from. Johnstown used to be a booming steel mill town, but once
    the mills closed it went downhill. If you have ever heard of my
    town at all, it is probably because of our opioid problem.
        I have known a few people who have died, including my
    friend Nycki. She was poor, like a lot of people in Johnstown.
    In fact, Johnstown has the highest poverty rate of any town in
    the state: 38 percent of all people, and 63 percent of people
    under 18 are living below the official poverty line. Nycki
    turned to drugs, and that led to going in and out of jail. She
    never got the treatment she needed, and when she overdosed two
    years ago she left behind a four-year-old daughter. Nycki was
    just 26 years old.
        Some people say us young people are lazy. But that is not
    true. Johnstown just doesn't have enough jobs to pay--enough
    jobs that pay to live on. I am on disability and Medicaid, and
    I am grateful for the help that I get, but it is not enough to
    get by. And last year, out of nowhere, my benefits got cut down
    to $15 a month. I have tried asking why this was, and can never
    get an answer from anybody.
        At the grocery store I sometimes have to put food back, or
    add the charge to my credit card debt, because I don't have the
    cash. What is going to happen when all of my credit card debt
    is maxed out, and still don't have the cash?
        I am not the only person in this boat that is sinking.
    There is many others out there, too.
        What has really helped me lower my anxiety is getting
    involved with Put People First!, PA. This is a group that gives
    people like me the opportunity to organize to make things
    better. To be honest, it has really become like family. I co-
    coordinate our health care rights committee in Johnstown, and I
    often go door to door, talking to people about the need for
    health care for all. It is hard work, but I love the challenge
    of trying to persuade people to have hope, and that we can
    improve the situation.
        What makes me sad is when I talk to people who say there is
    no poverty problem in Johnstown, and that they have been told
    that if you are poor it is your own fault, or that you should
    just work harder. Or they say that immigrants are the problem.
    The real problem, I believe, is that a few people are getting
    very rich, while poor people in towns like Johnstown are just
    forgotten about.
        Last fall Put People First! PA organized demonstrations
    against health care companies, and one was at Conemaugh
    Hospital owned by Duke LifePoint in Johnstown. Do you know how
    much the CEO of Duke LifePoint made in 2017? More than $13
    million. Meanwhile, people, including some of my own family
    members, have gotten poor care at that hospital, which has a
    one out of five-star rating on Medicare.gov. Nobody should get
    that rich off of a health care system that is not even working.
        And the problems are not just in Johnstown, either. Can you
    believe that the life expectancy in the United States is
    actually declining because of all the drug overdoses? Life
    expectancy for African-Americans in Johnstown is just 64.8
    years, almost 15 years below the national average. That is just
    crazy.
        We need to make health care a right with universal health
    care for all. And we need more public investment in communities
    like Johnstown, so that everyone has the opportunity to a
    secure, dignified life, not just the few wealthy at the top.
        Thank you again for the opportunity to speak with you all
    today.
        [The prepared statement of Savannah Kinsey follows:]

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        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you for your testimony.
        I now recognize Pastor Fields for five minutes.

                      STATEMENT OF LATASHA FIELDS

        Rev. Fields. Thank you. Good morning. My name is Latasha
    Fields. I am the founder of Christian Home Educators' Support
    System in Chicago, Illinois. I want to thank Chairman Yarmuth
    for having me, the Ranking Member Womack, and Members of
    Congress. It is a blessing to be here today.
        I have been married to Ronald Fields, II, for 13-and-half
    years. We are home educators of four wonderful children. I have
    two girls, 22 and three, and two boys, 12 and nine. My husband
    I were both born and raised in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I spent
    33 years there before I came to move to Chicago, Illinois
    seven-and-half years ago to expand our evangelistic work. We
    serve as the overseers and pastors of Our Report Ministries and
    Publications in Chicago. I am also the founder of Christian
    Home Educator, which is a homeschool academy, and Christian
    Home Support System, which is our support group.
        These are evangelistic outreach ministries to serve and
    support the families of the City of Chicago and surrounding
    communities. We provide assistance, resources of our home
    education, cooperative educational and recreational resources,
    curriculum, and parental rights issues, and much more. Our
    mission is to empower parents to take back the responsibility
    of educating their children.
        I am also the state coordinator of parentalrights.org, a
    volunteer of Junior Achievement of Chicago, and a member of
    CURE Clergy Network. I also have over 19 years of
    entrepreneurial experience, with 14 of those years being
    concentrated in the real estate industry, and several
    certifications in property management and non-profit housing. I
    am also a recent graduate of Trinity Christian College in Palo
    Heights, Illinois, with a bachelor's degree in business
    administration with a 4.0 GPA.
        So let me tell you a little bit about my journey, which is
    nothing short of the grace of God towards me. My grandmother,
    who raised me, also raised nine kids of her own, was a
    homeowner living in a poor, black, drug-infested community in
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana. She raised me and my younger sister. My
    mom was a teenage mom on drugs in and out of prison. My
    grandmother was a strong woman, hardworking woman. She showed
    tough love and had amazing, independent work ethics.
        So I basically grew up in a typical black community
    surrounding me, the lack of motivation for education,
    promiscuous behavior, drugs, crime, and some on welfare. In
    spite of the circumstance that surrounded my childhood, I was
    one that often fought against the odds. I had a love for
    education. I never did drugs, and I never committed a crime.
    But however, I did fall into promiscuous behavior. And at the
    age of 17 I became a teenage mom.
        This was the turning point of my life. I will never forget
    the day that I found that I was pregnant. I went into a Planned
    Parenthood in my neighborhood. I was devastated, I was
    frightened, and I was scared, because I was one of those kids
    that excelled in school, was popular in school, played sports,
    was on the homecoming court. You name it, I was in it.
        So basically, I kept myself from the normalized behaviors
    that plagued the black community. So becoming pregnant was
    embarrassing to me. I didn't want to be like the rest. I had
    always strived to be better. I didn't want to be like the
    social norm. I didn't want to be another statistic. I didn't
    want to be the 72 percent of moms raising a child single.
        So, while waiting for the result of my pregnancy test, I
    was crying. I was thinking how I had ruined my life. The nurse
    came back in the room and she told me that I was three weeks'
    pregnant, and she consulted me that I had another choice. I had
    a choice to abort my baby.
        In that very moment, my life flashed before my eyes because
    I had a big decision to make. Do I get rid of my baby, and
    proceed as normal, as though nothing happened, and go back to
    my family and friends and continue to live out my life? Or do I
    live the rest of my life knowing I had killed my baby? Do I
    keep my baby, and face the challenges that lie ahead of me, and
    press past the shame, the regret, and the disappointment?
        I chose the latter. I chose to do what I will always hear
    my grandmother say: You make your bed hard, you lie in it.
    Those words rang loud and clear in my heart and mind. Yes, we
    did this. No one else is responsible for the choice we made. I
    must take responsibility for my actions and live with it, live
    the best possible life I can, give my child the best possible
    life I can, finish high school, go to college, and make
    something of myself.
        I decided, in spite of my teenage pregnancy, that I would
    continue to press past the popularized social norms of the
    black community. I worked hard, I graduated from high school
    five months pregnant. During my teenage years I worked at
    Burger King. I was a part of an entrepreneurial program that we
    had. I worked throughout my high school years, from 15 until I
    graduated, but I was a mom, so I had to continue working at
    Burger King to provide for myself and my baby.
        My--I lived with my grandmother for several months after I
    had her, and she encouraged me to get on food stamps, to
    receive week--to receive child care assistance. During this
    time she also helped me to get my first apartment.
        After about nine months of renting, the real estate company
    asked me did I want to buy a house. I was shocked. I was
    excited. I went to the first-time home buyers program, and I
    purchased a three-bedroom, one bath house at 18 years old.
    After two years of being on food stamps, I found myself
    increasingly growing to hate the program. I felt awful while I
    was on the program. It was such a level of disrespect and
    deprivation. I couldn't take it any longer. I removed myself
    from the food stamp program. But however, due to me working and
    going to college, I had to remain on child care assistance.
        After having my baby in 1996, buying my home in 1997, the
    same real estate company offered me a job. I became a
    secretary, later a rental assistant manager, and later, in
    December of 2005, I became a licensed real estate agent.
        However, from 1996 to early 2005 I was a single mom,
    working hard, working two jobs sometimes, going to college, and
    maintaining honors. By November 2004 I gave my life to Christ,
    then my husband. We got married October 2005.
        After becoming a Christian I became an ordained minister.
    My faith began to challenge and propel me to work with families
    and kids, and tackle the problems that plague the black
    communities. I lived it, and I wanted to reverse the plague. I
    had begun and purposed in my heart that I would become that
    change, and advocate for my family and friends.
        In 2006 I felt compelled by God to take more responsibility
    for my daughter's education. I took her out of the public
    education in the fourth grade, and I wanted to give her a
    Christian education by homeschooling her, so we did. My husband
    and I did not know what that would entail, but we obeyed God.
        Later, in 2007, we opened up a Christian homeschool academy
    as an extension of our evangelistic work. My husband and I are
    now homeowners in Chicago, Illinois. For the last three years
    my husband is the owner of his own barber shop in the South
    Shore Community in Chicago for the last five years, and we are
    continuing our ministerial work with our Christian school and
    our co-op group to support the families in the City of Chicago.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Ms. Fields, if you could wrap it up, your
    time is considerably over.
        Rev. Fields. Oh, it is?
        Chairman Yarmuth. So, if you could, wrap it up. You can
    make a concluding statement.
        Rev. Fields. Oh, wrap it up, okay. And one more point, that
    we graduated our oldest daughter--she is 22--from being
    homeschooled all the way to 12th grade. We graduated her from
    our homeschool academy, and now she just walked across the
    stage from the University of Bridgeport, with a degree in
    nutritional science with a 3.1 GPA from being homeschooled.
    Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Pastor Latasha Fields follows:]

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        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you very much.
        I now recognize Pastor Mahan for five minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF PASTOR DAVID MAHAN

        Pastor Mahan. Chairman Yarmuth, Ranking Member Womack, all
    the esteemed Members of the House Budget Committee, I thank you
    for this opportunity to share my family's journey out of
    poverty.
        Growing up, my wife and I were raised in lower middle-class
    households with the public schools, experienced some of the
    same societal ills far too many American children face. Abuse,
    addiction, divorce, depression, parents who have more bills
    than money most months were all part of our building blocks
    that formed--the building blocks that formed our childhood.
        In 1993, soon after I completed my senior year, my
    girlfriend informed me that she was pregnant, and that I had
    some serious decisions to make. I was terrified, confused. As I
    was--it seemed like everyone around me kind of knew what I
    should do more than I did.
        So my friends thought that we should have an abortion, just
    go ahead and kill the baby, and then you can just go on with
    your life. My mother, well-meaning, she decided that I should
    take care of my children, you know, always, but that it is my
    wife that I should not--I shouldn't marry my wife, that I
    should just basically take care of the kids.
        This is, later on, what I found would lead to about 70
    percent of African-American kids being born, you know, being
    born into households without fathers. And so I am so glad I
    didn't take that advice.
        Despite all of the advice to the contrary, we decided to
    keep our baby, get married, and trust the Lord for answers
    along the way. I went home from being a popular student leader,
    a newly enrolled college student, to a poor college dropout and
    teen father overnight.
        The first year of our marriage I made $11,000 in 2017 in
    debt. While living with--or living with our relatives, we had
    to put our baby girl in the bottom drawer of a dresser and--to
    sleep, because we just couldn't afford a crib. Her nightlight
    was the orange security light that shown through the window
    from the back wall of the grocery store. And my wife and I
    pillowed our heads at a bed that, basically, they found my
    alcoholic uncle dead in just months before we moved in.
        After living with a few relatives and working hard, I
    finally was able to move my family into a small duplex
    apartment in a rough neighborhood. Drugs were being sold across
    the street. The smell of marijuana frequently crept into the
    house through the paper-thin walls from our neighbors. Shortly
    after we had our second daughter, I was working several jobs,
    struggling to study for the ministry.
        We finally worked ourselves off of the WIC program, and I
    even started a small cleaning company, where I was thankful,
    basically, to work and clean out crack houses that were roach-
    infested and everything from property managers that kind of
    frequented our company.
        I was working so much that one day, when my wife, you know,
    came, I was home between jobs, and my wife came home and said
    she was looking for me, calling my name. And she said she came
    downstairs where I was zoned out, staring blankly at a empty TV
    screen with tears streaming down my face. I was demoralized,
    utterly exhausted, and I felt like I was beginning to lose my
    mind. However, looking back, I can clearly see how the Lord
    rescued us time and time again, and how, when we felt the
    weakest, He faithfully stepped in to strengthen us.
        For instance, once when our car broke down, our only car
    broke down unexpectedly, we had a friend randomly call the
    house to say that they got an amazing deal at the auto auction.
    They bought two cars, and so they offered the one that they
    were currently driving to my wife and I.
        Another time I came home and I put my bags down in the
    front room and I saw my wife weeping in the kitchen, looking at
    the empty cabinets and refrigerators. And she said, ``Lord, I
    never seen the righteous forsaken, nor my seed begging bread.''
    And she prayed that we would have food that night. Her friend
    called that night and said that her brother was working at the
    grocery store up the street, said that they had some extra meat
    they were about to throw away, and that night we all ate steak
    for dinner.
        And then there was the year we decided to step out on faith
    and take our children out of the failing public school system.
    We could not afford private school. Our family thought that we
    were nuts, but the Lord connected us to a group of homeschool
    families in our church who took us in, guided us through the
    entire process. Years and a whole lot of criticism later, when
    we were able to move into a better neighborhood and enroll our
    children into a high-performing high school, we once again
    recognized the sovereign hand of God in the decision that we
    made to homeschool our children.
        Two poor African-American teen parents with little post-
    secondary education somehow raised four brilliant children with
    exemplary character who would all rank in the top of their
    classes, 4.0, 4.3, 4.6. Mentoring programs, thousands of hours
    of community service, GE/Reagan and merit scholarships, a
    neuroscience degree from the Ohio State University, double
    majors. With God's help and a strong community of faith, we
    were blessed to achieve outcomes that many of our public
    schools in our area could not, and all from the kitchen table
    of our modest inner-city home.
        In closing, I understand the pain of poverty, and the sense
    of hopelessness that it engenders. However, I also understand
    the hope that comes from personal responsibility, strong
    marriages and families, and an act of faith in Jesus Christ.
        While there is a place for poverty relief programs in
    society, for sure, I feel that our reliance upon them has
    become excessive, and that many of them have grossly missed the
    mark of empowering their recipients to achieve self-
    sufficiency.
        Today, my wife lovingly serves disadvantaged women in one
    of the poorest neighborhoods of our city. As a youth
    development consultant and minister, I serve thousands of youth
    and families per year, teaching character education and the
    word of God all over the country and abroad. We just celebrated
    our 25th year in marriage together, and our four children are
    absolutely thriving. However, there is nothing special about
    us, but for the fact that we are trophies of God's grace and
    beneficiaries of the love and kindness of family, friends, and
    others within our community who committed to love God and love
    their neighbors, to be clear.
        Personal responsibility, strong marriages and families, and
    an act of faith in Jesus Christ is the formula that worked for
    us. This is the formula that worked for our ancestors before
    us. And this is the only formula that will work for Americans
    today. Government programs will only prove successful to the
    degree that they supplement these key factors without
    supplanting them.
        I appreciate your time to come and share my family story
    today. It is a big deal in the Mahan house, and I am free to
    answer any questions that you might have.
        [The prepared statement of Pastor David Mahan follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Yarmuth. I thank the gentleman for his testimony.
    We will now begin the question-and-answer period. I yield five
    minutes to the gentleman from New York, Mr. Jeffries.
        Mr. Jeffries. I thank the distinguished Chair for convening
    this hearing and for your leadership. And, of course, I thank
    Congresswoman Barbara Lee for her persistent leadership on this
    issue within the caucus, and thank all of the witnesses for
    your presence here today and for your testimony.
        It seems to me that tackling the issue of poverty should be
    something that we do in a bipartisan way. Jim Clyburn has
    frequently raised the issue of the need for Congress to address
    persistently poor counties. And when you look at the measure of
    what a persistently poor county is in the United States of
    America, it is based on the fact that 20 percent or more of the
    people have lived below the poverty line 30 or more years. That
    is a persistently poor county.
        And when you look at who represents persistently poor
    counties in the United States House of Representatives, it is
    almost equally divided between Democrats and Republicans, both
    sides of the aisle. I haven't looked at the breakdown in terms
    of the 116th Congress, but in previous congresses, in fact, my
    colleagues on the other side of the aisle represented more
    persistently poor counties than did Members of the House
    Democratic Caucus.
        This is an issue that, in the past, Dr. King spoken
    eloquently about the effort to divide poor whites and poor
    African-Americans from each other, notwithstanding the
    commonality of condition that can often be found.
        Dr. Barber, I would be interested in your take on where the
    opportunities lie to tackle poverty as a moral imperative, as
    you have eloquently laid out for the country, but to try to do
    it in a bipartisan fashion.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. First of all, I think that we have to, but
    I think all of us have to get this right. We are not talking
    about just addressing poverty a little bit. King talked about
    ending poverty, militarism, and racism, and ecological
    devastation, a war economy. That is why we have put together a
    budget, as well as the facts.
        And the reality is, even with the facts, we got to start
    with what is right, 140 million poor people. We have got to
    stop racializing poverty, like poverty is some black people
    that don't work hard enough. The fact of the matter, they are
    more white people that are poor than there are blacks. The
    concentration is more whites, but there is actually more
    African-Americans.
        And so we should come together. I was actually looking at
    the Ranking Member's state in Arkansas. I just thought I would
    say I have looked at Arkansas. I think this is Arkansas. It
    says that in Arkansas, 46 percent of people in Arkansas are
    poor and low income: 493,000 of them are black, but 863,000 of
    them are white.
        Now, all those folks are not poor because they don't work
    hard enough. To have anecdotal evidence about people working
    hard enough, that--they are actually proving our point. People
    shouldn't have to work three jobs. That is the point. People
    shouldn't work without health care. That is the point. People
    shouldn't have to pray to wait for food to come on their table.
    That is the point. If you are working, you should be making a
    living wage, you should have health care.
        And the richest nation in the world--every one of you that
    comes into this chamber, one of the first things you get is
    free health care, because we pay for it. We pay for it. You
    make sure that, for instance, you have the ability to get all
    of your preclearance--all your--this lady didn't have that
    chance.
        Ms. Greer. No.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. She didn't have that chance. And so, what
    we have put together for you is an agenda of what can happen if
    we invest in living wages, and how many dollars that can put
    into the economy for everybody. What can happen if we cut the
    military budget by 350--and it will still be higher than
    Russia, Iran, North Korea, all of them combined.
        We have a complete plan. And we are not here talking about
    Democrat or Republican. We are not trying to racialize--but
    that is why we dis-aggregated the number. We are tired of the
    racialization of poverty, the partisanism of poverty.
        What we are saying is you cannot have a society where 43
    percent of your people are poor and low-wealth. I don't care if
    they are from eastern Kentucky, where we have been, that is
    predominately white, or eastern North Carolina, that is
    predominately black. It is wrong. And we have a plan, and we
    must work together to change this.
        Mr. Jeffries. Thank you, Dr. Barber, but one last question.
    You also mentioned that the traditional poverty measures don't
    actually capture the distressed conditions that the American
    people are confronting in incredibly large numbers. And one of
    the statistics that has startled many of us, I believe, is the
    fact that at least half the country has indicated that they
    couldn't afford a sudden, unexpected $400 expense. That is over
    160 million people in the United States of America.
        How do you think we should measure poverty? And maybe Dr.
    Theoharis can address that, or Dr. Barber. I yield to you at
    your discretion.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. I am going to take one shot and turn it
    to--we have the official poverty measure and the supplemental
    poverty measure. The problem is even the official poverty
    measure didn't really measure poverty at the beginning. The
    supplemental poverty measure looks at poverty based on the
    federal-federal poverty line, but also those who are less than
    200 percent of the federal poverty line. And what it shows us
    is that that is a broader measurement. It gives us a truer
    picture.
        And if we are going to have this conversation, let's start
    with the facts, not the phoniness, not the mythology, but let's
    start with the facts of what is happening to the people across
    this country.
        Liz?
        Rev. Dr. Theoharis. Yes, indeed. We actually need a more
    effective poverty measure. We need to not just talk about a
    food budget, when housing is one of the biggest expenses, when
    health care and health care crises--when 73 percent of this
    country can actually have health care insurance and still not
    be able to afford many of their basic health care services. We
    got a problem.
        Mr. Jeffries. Thank you.
        Chairman Yarmuth. The gentleman's time has expired. I now
    recognize the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Johnson, for five
    minutes.
        Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, boy, I tell you,
    I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today. This
    is a really, really important hearing, because the issue of
    poverty in America is very real. I know, because I have got
    some personal experience with it. And I know many of you are
    going to look up here and say, ``Yeah, right, okay.''
        But let me give you a little bit of my background. I was
    born on a two-wheel wagon-rut mule farm. We had no indoor
    plumbing. We cooked and heated on two big, old, black
    potbellied stoves. We farmed with mules up until I was about 13
    years old. We went to the store once a month, and that was to
    get sugar and salt, if we had the money to do it. Everything
    else came from the sweat of our brow, and the toil of our
    hands, in growing and raising what we consumed. My mother
    worked three or four jobs, picking cotton, picking tobacco,
    working on produce farms, you name it. That was--we didn't know
    we were poor. We thought we lived like everybody else did in
    the community in which we were raised.
        Mother had to find a way to take care of two kids, so she
    lied about my age. Mom's dead now, so I can say that, you can't
    go after her. But she lied about my age to start me to school
    when I was five years old. And because my dad was an alcoholic,
    and she had to jump from place to place to try to find a job
    because he wasn't providing much input, we were all over the
    place, 13 schools in 12 years.
        So education was a big, big problem for me. I didn't get a
    very good one in elementary school and middle school and high
    school. And thank God that I lived in a country that helped
    provide some opportunities.
        I see a lot of testimony here about Christian principles.
    We got two reverends, two pastors, and a lot of people with
    Jesus signs on their shirts. I have been a Christian since I
    was 10 years old. And I am going to tell you the scriptures
    that I read, one of the problems that we have got in this
    country--it is not a head problem, folks, it is a heart
    problem, because I don't find anywhere in the scripture where
    Jesus said that it was Caesar's job to feed the poor and to
    clothe the widows and to take care of the orphans. He said it
    was the churches. It is the church's responsibility. It is the
    community's responsibility. It is your neighbors'
    responsibility, it is your responsibility, as a neighbor, to do
    those things.
        Pastor Mahan, I find your testimony especially inspiring,
    both because we are fellow Ohioans, and I plan to get with you,
    because I got some thoughts to share with you later, but
    because you too have thought a lot about how fathers and father
    figures can impact the lives of children and young adults. I
    wrote a book about that called ``Raising Fathers'' that was
    published in 2017. We can talk more about that later, too.
        But in your work with at-risk youth, can you describe the
    effect that a strong male role model can have on young people
    and their ability to overcome poverty and succeed in the
    future?
        Pastor Mahan. I, first of all, appreciate your kind words.
    I have not seen a more powerful influencer in anti-poverty in a
    kid's life than a father. Obama said that the leading cause for
    child poverty was fatherless homes.
        I have seen it go the positive way, and I have seen it go a
    negative way. I have seen it where we have got mentoring
    programs, we are working with kids, Father gets out of jail,
    and that power of a father comes in and undoes everything we
    did in the mentoring program. But I also see it work in the
    opposite way, where we can be fathers to the fatherless, where
    we can go into communities where 80, 90 percent of kids have no
    dads. We can be coaches, we can be mentors, we can be teachers,
    and turn that kid's life around, too, by being a father, to
    somebody that didn't have one.
        It is just that--it is something that can't be understated.
    And that is my biggest piece. When I come into the room and I
    am hearing folks talk about, you know--I don't hear anybody
    saying we don't want to end poverty. What I am hearing is that
    you have got some that are talking about intentions, and you
    have got some that are talking about results. And this is not
    new. You know, we have got the war on poverty that started
    years ago. We had 7 percent of the kids in America that were
    born in homes without fathers. At the end of the doggone thing,
    today, we got 42 percent of kids in America that have no
    fathers.
        Mr. Johnson. Yes. Pastor Mahan, I really--I wish I could
    take all day with you, but let me get to Pastor Fields real
    quick.
        You know, access to quality education is often referred to
    as the silver bullet for success in life. Can you talk just
    briefly about some ways that that has played out in your life,
    or the lives of your children? What role has federal policy had
    in your and your children's education?
        Rev. Fields. Yes, it has been a tremendous blessing. And,
    like I said, I pulled my daughter out in fourth grade. And so
    we began to homeschool.
        And what we have seen what education has done--because, of
    course, me and my husband are products of the public education
    system. Well, because I have always been a stickler and an
    advocate for education, with homeschooling my children their
    education was unlimited. It was vast. So we were able to give
    them a quality education. And I believe some of the ones here
    who were saying that even teaching our children our history--so
    we was able to give them that, that the public school has
    failed to give them.
        And so, with me going back to school, and just recently
    graduating in December, I am an advocate for education. I
    understand where I felt the federal dollars are being spent in
    order to give us those opportunities to get an education. So
    education is definitely a key for our children and for society
    to succeed and to come out of poverty.
        Mr. Johnson. Okay. Thank you very much.
        Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you. The gentleman's time has
    expired. I now recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr.
    Boyle, for five minutes.
        Mr. Boyle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to just say
    thank you to each and every one of the eight witnesses, for
    both the head and the heart that was present in each one of
    your different testimonies.
        You know, one of the things I have noticed in our political
    discourse--and this is not just in one campaign, it is
    throughout many campaigns--sometimes some people use a very
    dishonest frame. They will say there are the economic issues,
    and then there are the moral issues. And the moral issues,
    typically, they are referring to a few hot-button social
    issues. And then they will say, ``Oh, but then there are the
    economic issues: taxes, and spending, and budgets.''I believe
    that is wrong. The economic issues are moral issues. And this
    really goes back to our founding documents, because we are a
    nation born not of one race of people, but of a commitment to a
    certain set of principles and ideals. In our founding documents
    is the acknowledgment that all of us, by virtue of human
    beings, have certain rights.
        However, if we don't have the economic ability to
    participate fully in those rights, then those rights remain
    just abstract. That is something that the UN human--UN
    Declaration on Human Rights recognized over half a century ago,
    which the United States led the drafting of, and have signed up
    to it, including in that document, by the way, a commitment for
    universal health care as a human right.
        Now, I want to transition just briefly, because there are
    so many different topics that were raised, from education, to
    housing, to opioids. And I wanted to focus specifically on
    opioids.
        And Ms. Kinsey, Savannah, thank you for your testimony. As
    a fellow Pennsylvanian, you make me proud. I thank you
    especially for sharing the story of your friend, and I am sorry
    for her loss and the loss that you have experienced for Nycki.
        The opioid epidemic is horrible in all 50 states. But for
    our home state of Pennsylvania, for the Commonwealth, it is
    nothing short of a catastrophe. In my home town of
    Philadelphia, we, I am sad to say, lead the nation among major
    cities for opioid deaths. It is something that I have worked--I
    have spent a lot of time on, as it has been especially a
    scourge in my own community, in my own district.
        I was wondering if you could speak to the ways in which our
    SNAP program, Medicaid, and other financial systems actually
    make it harder to break that cycle of addiction, the way the
    economic conditions actually exacerbate the cycle of addiction,
    and if you had any ideas or thoughts on ways we could make it
    easier for people to kick that opioid epidemic addiction,
    knowing that it would, A, be the right thing to do, but, B, in
    the financial interests of society to help them do so.
        Ms. Kinsey. Thank you. So, to the last part of your
    question, I will just answer that first. I believe that putting
    folks in prison for the opioid epidemic is not the way to do
    it. I believe a treatment center would be the correct route,
    just because going into prison you don't even get treatment, or
    very little treatment. And then it just turns to in and out, in
    and out. And then eventually it just ends--leads to death, and
    doesn't end anywhere well.
        And then can you repeat your first question? I am sorry.
        Mr. Boyle. No, that is good. I was--the first part was
    talking about the ways in which the system that we have created
    actually makes it more difficult to break this cycle of
    addiction.
        Ms. Kinsey. Okay.
        Mr. Boyle. And it is not a quiz. If you don't have anything
    to offer, then don't worry about it. But I just--I think that
    it is so important that we listen to voices, the lived
    experiences, people like yourself, because I think, in many
    ways, those are the voices we don't hear enough of here in
    Washington.
        Ms. Kinsey. Yes. So I don't really feel like food stamps
    and the WIC program and stuff like that really affect, like,
    the opioids, like, in a bad way. Like, I feel like by not--I
    might be misunderstanding your question, but I feel like by not
    having the money for all of them, I feel like it affects it
    tremendously, just because you end up--like, your mental health
    is just declining. And, I mean, I have not experienced it
    personally, I have just known folks. But just from what I have
    heard, and all of that, and living there, it is just, like--so
    you go to the store, and you can't afford food for your family.
        Like, I know a lot of us have talked about children and,
    like, that is very depressing, to not be able to, you know,
    afford food for your family. And, like, just the route of my
    friend, Nycki, like, she actually was just, like, smoking weed
    with her friends. And so she was smoking and they, you know,
    ran out of weed. So a friend of hers actually said, you know,
    ``Try opioids, like, you know, try heroin, it is just--you
    know, it is just as good, like, you know, nothing is going to
    happen.''
        So, you know, they were poor because, you know, they ran
    out of the weed, and then like, you know, so----
        Chairman Yarmuth. Okay, the gentleman's time has expired. I
    now recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Smith, for five
    minutes.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Sixty-five days. Sixty-
    five days. That is how many days that have passed that we have
    not did the responsibility of this Committee, and that is to
    pass a budget. A budget hasn't even been filed amongst the
    Democrats.
        Nancy Pelosi, who spoke in this Committee just at the very
    beginning, said that a budget is a statement of your values.
    Show us your values. That is whenever her party was in the
    minority, just a few years ago. I am asking Speaker Pelosi and
    the House Democrats to pass a budget.
        We are having a hearing today on poverty. Poverty hits home
    directly to me. But before we can address a lot of the issues
    in poverty, we have to do a budget, which was supposed to be
    done 65 days ago. File a budget. Let us talk about it. Let us
    see your values. House Republicans have a budget. Take up ours,
    if you don't want to take up yours. The President even has a
    budget.
        When we talk about the area that I represent in southeast
    Missouri, it is called the Bootheel. It is a very impoverished
    congressional district. We have over 200 miles of the
    Mississippi. My family has called that district home for seven
    generations.
        Growing up in high school and in college, I would go work
    on my grandparents' farm. Whenever I would work at my
    grandparent's farm, in order to wash my hands after working
    cattle, or picking up rocks, clearing brush, to wash my hands I
    had to pump water out of a cistern. My grandparents never had
    running water. They died not having running water. So I
    understand what poverty is all about.
        More than 20 of my 30 counties are persistent-poverty
    counties in the 8th congressional district. It is a very
    impoverished area. But you know what my family always taught
    me? My father was a minister. My parents showed a lot of love.
    They have been married for more than 55 years. But they taught
    me that hard work, and determination, and support from your
    family can do a lot. And a lot can happen from a family that
    had nothing. And so there is a way to get out of poverty.
        Lyndon B. Johnson declared war on poverty over 50 years
    ago, and since then we have spent over $25 trillion on
    different government programs. We had 36 million people in
    poverty in the 1960s, when we granted the war on poverty. Now
    there is over 40 million, according to the statistics from the
    government. I know that you all have said 140 million, but 40
    million.
        So regardless, it has increased. But we have spent $25
    trillion. Those 40 million that is considered in poverty right
    now, we spend a trillion dollars a year in 80 different federal
    programs to help those that are in poverty. If we just took
    that trillion dollars and divided it up amongst those 40
    million people, that would be over $20,000 a year in a check. I
    would say the federal government is not doing a good job at
    trying to get people out of poverty. Think about those numbers.
        We have a poverty trap in these 80-plus federal programs.
    We have had people come and testify before Congress that says,
    you know, ``I work 40 hours a week at the local convenience
    store. I have to get child care subsidies. I get assistance
    with my rent. I get food stamps. But I got a $2 pay raise, and
    guess what? I lost my child care subsidies. My food stamps got
    reduced.''
        There is a certain level, according to our federal
    programs, our welfare programs, that they push people down. And
    that should be a Republican and Democrat issue, is to reform
    that. We want people to better themselves every day, to
    gradually work themselves off the system. That is a way that we
    can do it. We don't want to keep people on the system. We want
    them to have a better quality of life.
        So many people are worried about that security blanket. But
    if they can see the progress of a better life, it is good. When
    I go into the schools and I talk to the kids and Hayti,
    Missouri, or in Caruthersville, or Kennett, or Bunker, I say it
    doesn't matter what zip code you are born in, or what family
    you are born in. If you get a good education and you work hard,
    you can do a lot.
        But love also helps. So I think the churches--being the son
    of a pastor, the love that you can nourish these folks is
    amazing.
        And I could say so much more, but poverty hits home. It is
    an important topic. But before we can even hit it, let's get a
    budget done.
        Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Yarmuth. The gentleman's time has expired. I now
    recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. Khanna, for five
    minutes.
        Mr. Khanna. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Reverend Barber, thank you for your incredible moral
    leadership in this country. Thank you to all of the witnesses
    for taking time to come and testify before Congress.
        Reverend Barber, I want to ask your wisdom and candid
    advice to this Committee. Representative Barbara Lee, about a
    week ago, led a group of us down to hear President Carter teach
    Sunday School. And President Carter had a hip injury, and three
    weeks later he is at the pulpit teaching, showing his
    resilience.
        And there are two things he said that struck me. One, he
    talked about a phone call he had with President Trump, and
    President Trump said to President Carter, ``I am concerned
    about China.'' And President Carter said, ``Well, China hasn't
    been in a war since 1979. We have been in over 40 conflicts.
    And if we had taken those trillions of dollars and invested it
    in our infrastructure, in our education, and in high-speed
    rail, and in broadband, we would probably be in a much better
    place.''
        And then President Carter talked about what he thought it
    meant for America to be a superpower, informed by his own
    understanding of the teachings of Jesus and his own Christian
    faith. And he said what it means to be a superpower, in his
    view, is a place where leaders from around the world would come
    to Washington to seek our guidance and counsel on how to bring
    peace, where people would come to look to America in
    understanding how to bring justice.
        President Carter, as I know it, is the last president who
    actually ran on cutting the defense budget and won. He talked
    about 5 to 7 percent cuts in defense.
        And here is the reality, Reverend Barber. Representative
    Lee and I introduced an amendment in this Committee to freeze
    the defense spending, not to cut it, to freeze it to the levels
    that Donald Trump has in 2009. And we only got seven votes for
    that.
        Now, the arguments we hear is, well, we can't shut down
    government. The Republicans are in charge in the Senate. The
    President has to sign something. We need a budget. And I am
    sure they are well-meaning arguments.
        But, Reverend Barber, I would like your counsel to this
    Committee, to this Congress, given all the constraints, how do
    we succeed in making the case and standing up for responsible
    cuts in defense?
        Rev. Dr. Barber. You know, I come from somebody who--and
    the people here who remember--who know that we were deeply
    impacted by government, by Caesar, if you will. And it took
    religious people who had to stand up to Caesar when Caesar
    said, ``Separate, but equal.'' There wasn't but one dissenter,
    Justice Harlan out of eastern Kentucky, that stood up to that.
    But he stood up. And because he stood up, he eventually brought
    other people to his position, and we won.
        Somebody has to stand up to the lies. I have heard so many
    distortions here today it actually hurts my head. I mean, to
    suggest that work--these people work hard. We all have to tell
    our stories and our children--but for somebody to say, well,
    Jesus never said anything about Caesar. First of all, it is
    interesting that you all would define yourself as Caesar. That
    in itself is--right? I mean we need to stop for a minute to
    even hear that.
        And then the next thing is that you have read the 2,000
    scriptures in the Bible that talk about how society is supposed
    to treat the poor, the immigrant, the least of these. And you
    don't know that Jesus started his first sermon with good news
    to the prototokos. That is a Greek word which means those who
    have been made poor by economic systems. I mean it really is
    shocking that folk are saying the same thing that we heard
    people say about slavery.
        Slaves, just work hard and wait. Civil rights, we don't
    need to be involved. Just work hard and wait. Social Security
    that, you know--people saying you were against Social Security,
    and they said God was against it. It is bothersome that, in the
    21st century, we still have these weak, tired, old mythologies,
    lying about the world poverty when the Russell Sage Foundation
    actually says that it did decrease poverty. But we left the
    field.
        So I would say to all of us, Democrats and Republicans, we
    brought you people, Republicans, Democrats, white, and black,
    see the people. Stop just talking about how know poverty--and
    hear what these folk are saying, and put together a full plan
    to deal with this issue.
        This is traumatic, to see this happening in America today,
    that people would stick with their partisan lines and ignore
    the people that are really hurting.
        Chairman Yarmuth. The gentleman's time has expired. I now
    recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Flores, for five
    minutes.
        Mr. Flores. Thank you, Chairman Yarmuth, and thank you,
    Republican Leader Womack, for holding this important hearing
    about poverty in America today.
        I come at poverty from a personal perspective. After my
    family started--or my early years were in poverty. And I
    remember there were nights when my dad would come home after
    working hard and say, ``Well, the soup is going to be a little
    thin tonight.''
        And we were able to persevere and ultimately prosper, but
    there was no Medicaid. There were no--there was no SNAP. All we
    got was a little bit of help from friends from time to time,
    from the community, and my dad's hard work. And I was blessed
    to be able to go to a quality public school that didn't have a
    lot of federal mandates or oversight over it. It was local
    leaders that decided how they wanted to educate their kids, and
    they did a wonderful job with it. And we ultimately persevered.
    But along the way I started working at 9, threw papers at 10,
    and by age 13 I was driving a tractor, building fence six days
    a week, 12 hours a day during the summer times.
        And again, there was no federal support along the way. I am
    not saying the federal government doesn't have a role, I am
    just trying to say it is not the end-all be-all. But what it
    did--what my early life did tell me is that there is a value to
    work, and that paychecks can solve a lot of--paychecks and good
    jobs can solve a lot of issues. And so that leads me back to
    where we are today.
        By all accounts, our economy is very strong today, and
    average hourly wages have increased by 3.2 percent, which is
    significantly higher than the 2.3 percent over the last 10
    years. And this recovery has been broad and it has been deep.
    Unemployment for African-Americans and Hispanics and females is
    at record lows. Wage growth in the bottom 10 percent of our
    nation's workforce is 50 percent greater than that work--than
    that income growth in the top 10 percent, the first time that
    income inequality has shrunk in the last several years.
        So a strong economy has opened a lot of doors. They lift
    all people. We have more jobs available today than we have
    people to fill them. So my view is--I come at this, again, from
    a perspective of how do we help people have the workforce
    training programs that they need, an education system that
    understands the needs of the future, and flexibility for
    students and youth to access more options to apprenticeships
    and technical skills?
        And while we may have disagreements about how to best lift
    low-income Americans out of poverty and into prosperity, I
    believe it is important to have this discussion.
        My questions start with a question for Pastor Fields. I
    believe one of the key ingredients for success for at-risk
    youth is a stable family and a stable household. Unfortunately,
    a lot of our at-risk youth come home to an environment that is
    not healthy, and they don't live in encouraging communities.
    Are there examples of successful anti-poverty programs that you
    have been a part of that address these problems for youth?
        Rev. Fields. Thank you, Member Flores. Yes, and that is--I
    am hearing everybody testify, as well, about the same thing.
    And I am finding it hard to understand why, when the word is
    said, 'hard work,' why is that interpreted in a different way?
        I realize all of us sitting here, everyone in this room,
    has worked hard to some extent. But what we are saying is--and
    I believe you all would agree--that even where you all sit, as
    representatives, in Congress and Senators, you did not do it by
    not working hard. And so we just need to understand what that
    word means.
        We are saying that you have to persevere. You have to
    endeavor. And for me, I grew up in the same environments that
    everyone sitting here is testifying about. Again, my mother was
    on drugs, in and out of prison. My grandmother did not have
    federal aid. My grandmother bought a house in 1972, working as
    a janitor at Louisiana State University. So before the civil
    rights, there was no federal aid. There was no welfare and food
    stamps. So I am sorry if I come from an environment where I
    have seen that you do not have to rely on government, you can
    work hard and persevere, no matter how long it takes, and that
    is what I did.
        Mr. Flores. And that is--that takes us to our question.
    Well, give us examples of successful community programs that
    help restore healthy families so that we can have that economic
    success. Your story is a great one.
        Rev. Fields. I mean, like I said, I got the food stamps for
    a couple years. So I am not here to say totally dissolve it.
    People do need help. But what I am here to say, and especially
    working in the real estate industry, it doesn't have to be
    perpetual.
        Mr. Flores. Right.
        Rev. Fields. You know, you got families that pass Section 8
    and welfare down like it is an inheritance. The Bible says we
    ought to lay up an inheritance for our children. And it is not
    government entitlement.
        Mr. Flores. Pastor Mahan, we have talked a lot about the
    inputs into anti-poverty programs, where we are trying to solve
    the effects of poverty, but we don't look at the underlying
    causes of poverty. Can you walk us through?
        What--what should our approach be to anti-poverty programs?
    Instead of looking at the--trying to solve the effects, solving
    the impact, going after the impacts?
        Pastor Mahan. Empowerment is--to me, I think empowerment is
    the key. You know, empowering a single father, empower a single
    mother to get back on her feet to where she can do so in a way
    that builds dignity, and not dependence.
        To answer the other question, I would say the churches, in
    my opinion, have been probably some of the strongest
    organizations to deal with these issues, and especially the
    opiate piece of it in Ohio. Our faith-based opiate programs
    have been phenomenal all across the state, to where they are
    always at the governor's office talking about the successes of
    their programs.
        In my personal life, it was the church. They got me
    involved in homeschooling, when everybody thought we was crazy.
    They got me involved--and even opportunities for employment,
    and things like that. And so that would be the number-one
    organization, I would say, that we would need to empower a
    little bit more, with the TANF, and things like that.
        But again, can they do so, and still be able to preach
    Christ, and to have the same world view, and positions that
    basically made them conspicuous to the government in the first
    place? Like, you guys are doing an amazing job, but then when I
    give you money, ``Shhh.'' You know, ``We don't want to talk
    about what made you so successful.''
        Mr. Flores. I want to apologize to the Chairman for going
    over my time, but I do appreciate all of your testimony as we
    work together on this very important issue.
        Thank you, I yield back.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you. The gentleman's time has
    expired. I now recognize the gentlelady from Connecticut, Ms.
    DeLauro, for five minutes.
        Ms. DeLauro. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And I just
    want to say a thank-you to Reverend Barber, to Dr. Theoharis,
    and to all of our witnesses this morning. It is very, very
    compelling.
        I just want to make a couple of points here. First, to
    start out with, some of my colleagues have talked about a
    budget resolution. Keep in mind that two years ago the other
    side of the aisle did not have a budget resolution; four years
    ago this side of the aisle did not have a budget resolution. We
    have moved forward with looking at Appropriations Committees
    that will do precisely what we are talking about doing here
    today--is help lifting people out of poverty.
        So this is a critically important hearing. The issue of
    eradicating poverty, addressing people's economic security is
    at the heart of what we do in this body, because the biggest
    economic challenge facing American families is that their pay
    is not keeping up with their rising costs. They struggle to
    deal with health care, prescription drugs, and child care, and
    a number of other areas.
        And I am reminded by a--of a quote by Robert F. Kennedy,
    which I think is very fitting here this morning. And his quote
    is, ``I believe that, as long as there is plenty, poverty is
    evil. We live in a land of plenty. Poverty is evil. And
    government belongs,'' he further said, ``wherever evil needs an
    adversary, and there are people in distress.'' People are in
    distress in this country, and we are the government. And we
    need to have a role in what is going on here.
        Let me just talk about those who would say--that say that
    we went to war on poverty with Lyndon Johnson and nothing
    happened. Wrong. We created a social safety net, and that
    social safety net includes Social Security, lifts 26.5 million
    people out of poverty. And I might add, religiously, it was Leo
    XIII, who is Pope Leo XIII, who talked about a Social Security
    program. He didn't call it Social Security, but he said we need
    to take care of other generations.
        The Earned Income Tax Credit, the Child Tax Credit, 9.1
    people--million people lifted out of poverty; the SNAP program,
    4.5 million people lifted out of poverty; SSI, 3.3 million;
    housing assistance, 2.5 million people. We have reduced poverty
    in this country with the creation of a social safety net,
    which--there are some people who are serving today in this body
    would like to decimate, because they don't believe we should--
    government should be involved in this area.
        This is not self-serving. I wrote a book two years ago
    called ``The Least Among Us: Waging the Battle for the
    Vulnerable.'' And you know what I found when I went to look at
    the creation of a social safety net in this country? It was
    Democrats and Republicans. It was a McGovern and a Dole who
    said, ``People are hungry in this country. We need to do
    something about it.'' It was a Jake Javits who said we need to
    have housing assistance for people. That is a role of
    government. It was the Kennedys and the Schweikerts and others
    who came together saying we have an economic challenge, we face
    it together, and we move on- on these issues.
        So that--to say--when you talk about empowering something,
    how does a person get empowered? Just by saying, ``You are
    empowered?'' You don't do that. We need to take a look at what
    the problems are, and identify them.
        I just wanted to make this other point. This is not--we
    have a social safety net in this nation. It is being frayed,
    and it is being decimated, and hollowed out. And if we are not
    willing on both sides of the aisle to stand up and make the
    fight for the strength of that safety net--and Reverend Barber,
    you talked about the supplemental poverty measure, which is the
    measure we currently use. And I--and when Mr. Jeffries asked
    you that question, you said that is the one that we should use,
    but we should redefine poverty.
        You should know that today, in this body--and Barbara Lee
    and I are leading this letter--we have--there is the use of the
    chained CPI, which is now being talked about by this
    Administration, that would, in fact, create a new measure for
    poverty that would decrease the number of poor people, that
    would put more people in jeopardy. This is what the answer is
    by some of the folks here. This is what it is. And I am just
    going to ask you and advise you, please, help us to fight back
    on this chained CPI effort, because it is wrong, and it will
    hurt the most vulnerable people.
        The other efforts that you need to be engaged in--excuse
    me, I am pontificating, you may say this--but the Child Tax
    Credit. We have legislation called the American Family Act,
    which would increase the Child Tax Credit for children over six
    years old and those under six, the kids who are the most
    vulnerable in this country.
        And I would just tell you that the National Academy of
    Sciences did a report called ``A Roadmap to Reducing Child
    Poverty,'' that if we did something like the American Family
    Act, we could reduce child poverty by 50 percent in the next
    decade. That measure is coming up in short order in this body,
    through the Ways and Means Committee. All of the advocacy that
    all of you can muster needs to be focused on this Child Tax
    Credit that is for the most vulnerable children in the nation,
    and those children who have been left behind. And we could do a
    remarkable amount of work if we were there.
        I am sorry there is no question. But there have been so
    many questions I felt the necessity to respond to some of the
    charges that were made here this morning. Thank you.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has
    expired. I now recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr.
    Meuser, for five minutes.
        Mr. Meuser. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, as well,
    Republican Leader Womack. Thank you all very much for being
    here with us today.
        I think it somewhat goes without saying that we do have a
    very strong economy today. There have been 6 million jobs
    created just in the last couple of years. We have an
    unemployment rate of 3.6 percent, the lowest in 50 years.
    Opportunities are there.
        When I got into the workforce, it was 1987. And these times
    are reminiscent of those times. There are choices there. There
    are opportunities. And we still are a nation where people can
    move from low income to high income. I don't think that is
    terribly disputed.
        Now, on the same note, I am in a district where our
    unemployment rate is higher in Pennsylvania, and the--
    Pennsylvania's 9th--than the national average. And the
    opportunities perhaps aren't exactly what we want them to be,
    but we are going to continue to work for that.
        There--personal charities are very important, as well. I
    have experienced and worked with--from the United Way, to Head
    Start programs, to something that was--an organization up by me
    known as the Willamette Valley Children's Association I was the
    Chairman of for a couple of years. They are very important. All
    of us here have seen firsthand the need to provide a hand from
    time to time, and sometimes longer than that. So that goes
    without saying.
        JFK also did say that the best form of welfare is a good-
    paying job. So I would like to first ask Pastor Fields and
    Pastor Mahan. You both have exemplified effort and courage, but
    sometimes in our society effort and courage aren't enough. They
    do require purpose and direction. So could you share with us
    how you found your purpose and direction, and how you found it?
        Rev. Fields. Number one, I know for a fact I found mine in
    Christ, you know, as Pastor David said earlier. It is in the
    things of God that I found my strength and my purpose. And
    also, in finding Christ I found the sense of family, how
    important family is. And so, when we cover ourselves with
    Christ's presence and his family, that is how you find your
    sense of purpose. That is where your strength comes from.
        And so, for me, that is my personal testimony. My faith in
    Christ, and me and my husband raising our children, and we are
    seeing the strength of family is how we are surviving. That is
    how we are protected, because we have family.
        Mr. Meuser. All right, thank you.
        Pastor Mahan?
        Pastor Mahan. Yes, it is--you know, I am right there, as
    well. And again, I am not here to debate anybody. I am here to
    give my testimony, something that has been done, something that
    has succeeded. And I am just saying that the reason for that
    success is Christ.
        And I noted that, you know, we are in a--you know, we are
    at the Capitol and everything, but the reality is that is my
    inspiration. Trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not
    into your own understanding. In all of your ways acknowledge
    him and let him direct your path.
        He directed me to homeschooling, He directed me away from
    the public system that was failing our community, He is the one
    that directed me to the people that gave me opportunities for
    employment and opportunities to increase my, you know,
    education, and things like that.
        And now I end up here to share my testimony. And somehow I
    don't want to communicate that somehow it was the government or
    some great works of David Mahan that did that. It was Christ,
    and Christ alone. And as simplistic as that answer is, that is
    my answer.
        Mr. Meuser. To empower you, to create opportunities, to
    motivate you, to make you want to make the most of the day----
        Pastor Mahan. Yes, to get my head up off the pillow, to
    keep working, to keep directing my children in the path that
    they should go.
        Again, you know, the context of poverty is important, and
    family, and that context, man, you can get through anything.
    And what I was bringing up earlier with the whole beginning of
    the war on poverty is that this is something we need to talk
    about. Seven percent of kids were being raised in homes without
    fathers. After it, now we have 42, 50 percent of Latinos, 72
    percent of African-Americans. We have destroyed the context
    that allows people to overcome any obstacle, whether it is
    poverty or anything else. And that needs to be addressed.
        Again, I am not against, you know, public endeavors and
    government endeavors to avoid poverty. However, I am against
    them if they subvert that unit of the family.
        Mr. Meuser. All right. Thank you, Chairman. I yield back my
    time.
        Chairman Yarmuth. The gentleman's time has expired. I now
    recognize the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Price, for
    five minutes.
        Mr. Price. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, want to thank
    our--the leadership of our Committee for holding this hearing.
    And I want to thank all of our witnesses.
        Of course, I want to pay a special greeting to Reverend
    Barber. His work as the leader of the Moral Monday, the
    inspiration and the leader of the Moral Monday movement in
    North Carolina, has as moved our state. And now, to have that
    work transformed to the national--transferred to the national
    level with the Poor People's Campaign, we are appreciative, and
    have great hopes for this movement.
        A lot of talk this morning about our own personal histories
    and personal experience. I will reflect briefly on that. I do
    want to then have a--pose a question. I had the good fortune to
    come to social and religious and political maturity as the
    civil rights movement swept across the South. One of the things
    that the civil rights movement, I think, taught us was that
    individual morality is not enough. In religious terms, we need
    to rediscover the Hebrew prophets.
        You know, I grew up surrounded by upstanding people, self-
    reliant people, loving, kind people. And I learned a lot from
    them. But I also learned, as I looked around the community,
    that many of those same people were perpetuating systems that
    denied other people their humanity, either through their active
    perpetrating of such systems, or their failure to challenge
    such system, social and political systems that were denying
    others their humanity. And the civil rights movement spoke to
    that. Our faith is not just about our individual morality and
    self-reliance, it is about the kind of community we wish to be.
    Rediscover the Hebrew prophets.
        And when it comes to providing for our children, of course,
    we provide for our children, but we have to care about other
    people's children. We have to care about the kind of
    educational opportunities that are available across the
    community. It is not just about protecting ourselves or
    withdrawing. It is about working for a public education system,
    I would say, that serves the entire community, and that lifts
    up the entire community. That is what our faith requires us to
    do, not simply to provide for ourselves.
        I have a particular role here, with--as the Chairman of the
    Transportation and Housing Appropriations Subcommittee, and so
    I want to just put an issue on the table, realizing that I have
    taken a good bit of the time that might be used for an answer.
    I want to talk about evictions.
        The affordable housing crisis in this country has many
    dimensions, but one of them is rising eviction rates and
    foreclosures. This is a problem across many communities, it
    does have a particular effect in communities of color. I won't
    give the statistics, except to say that we have virtually
    erased all the gains made since the Fair Housing Act in 1968,
    by virtue of the rate of foreclosures and evictions. And black
    homeownership has declined, as a result, in the last 10 years,
    declined 7 percentage points. And now TARP and other programs
    designed to deal with this are winding down.
        So my question, Dr. Barber, for you and for any others who
    want to chime in, is what--you have a section in your budget on
    affordable housing, which we are glad to see, and will study
    carefully. What would you say, though, about eviction rates and
    foreclosures, and the kind of effect that has had, is having on
    community health and well-being, as TARP points down? How might
    we carry forward such efforts as we have made here? And, of
    course, these efforts have not been totally successful. But I
    would just appreciate your reflections on that issue.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. Let me yield to Dr. Theoharis and just
    continue to say we have to look at all of this comprehensively.
    But let me yield to her.
        Rev. Dr. Theoharis. So I just want to start by saying I am
    stunned that basically we have had unanimous acknowledgment
    that poverty is widespread across this country. We have pulled
    a group of testifiers who are deeply, personally impacted by
    these problems. They are in the room, and people are not
    talking to them. People are not asking questions about how are
    we going to solve this problem of homelessness, and an
    increased rate of evictions.
        And then people are being blamed for the problems that this
    society has caused. How is it that you can say the war on
    poverty failed, when it is politicians who de-funded that war?
    How can you say that Head Start is a personal charity when it
    has lifted 65 million children out of poverty since it was
    started? So it feels very important to me to say we need a real
    serious conversation in this country led by those that are most
    impacted.
        And I love this question of does the Bible say anything
    about what nations, what Caesars are supposed to do? Because
    Matthew 25, says, ``I was hungry'' to the nations, not to a
    church, not to a charity, not to a an individual. I was hungry,
    and what did your nation do? I was homeless and did you cut
    public housing, or did you start building new public housing? I
    was homeless, and did you allow banks to be bailed out, but
    families who owe more on their houses than they are worth to
    become homeless?
        We have a moral crisis in this country. It is a crisis when
    250,000 people can die every year because of poverty, and
    people in this Committee can admit that in your towns there are
    people hurting. But what are you going to do about it? What are
    you going to do about it now?
        And when we talk about housing subsidies, we heard the
    power of them. You got a loan, you were able to get a house.
    That is government helping out. You were on food programs. That
    is the government helping out. We need more of these programs.
    We need to lift wages. How is it possible that in this country
    there is not one county where, if you are working minimum wage,
    you can't--you can afford a two bedroom apartment.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Reverend----
        Rev. Dr. Theoharis. So we got to connect this housing, and
    this poverty, and these wages, and lift the load of poverty.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you very much. The gentleman's time
    has expired. I now recognize the gentleman from South Carolina,
    Mr. Timmons, for five minutes.
        Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank all
    the witnesses for taking the time to come and testify before us
    today. Poverty is a serious issue in this country and in my
    district, and I look forward to working with all of my
    colleagues to do everything we can to improve the lives of
    everyone.
        My colleague, Mr. Hern, is particularly passionate about
    this, and I would like to yield the remainder of my time to
    him. Thank you.
        Mr. Hern. I thank my colleague from Pennsylvania--from
    North Carolina, rather. Oh, South Carolina. One of the
    Carolinas. Yes, sorry.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Hern. No, I really appreciate the opportunity.
        Mr. Chairman, this is something that is very near and dear
    to my heart, and the Ranking Member knows this. I have spent a
    lifetime working to help people get a first job. I always say
    that the only way you really know how something really, truly
    affects people is having lived it. And many of you have read my
    story before you came in, and--looking at the panel.
        But I grew up in extraordinary poverty. And, you know, I
    appreciate what you all are doing here, I really do, because I
    think it is something we need to address in this country. And
    not only here, but, you know, we have got issues around the
    world that, you know, so many people are involved in. But I
    always say, before we help around the world, we should look at
    our country, as well. This is still the greatest nation on this
    planet. But we need to do a better job of doing things to help
    people that really need it.
        You know, I looked at a lot of things that Martin Luther
    King said, and I think we all look at how to solve a problem,
    and there are multiple ways to solve a problem. He--I look at
    his dream, and I think of what he said, he said, ``Change does
    not roll on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through the
    continuous struggle. And so, while we must straighten our backs
    and work for our freedom, a man cannot ride unless your back is
    bent (sic),'' I agree with that completely.
        I am a product of--like some of these folks have said in
    here, I am a product of being in poverty and found the only way
    out was to work my tail off. And I am here today at 57 years
    old, soon to be 58 years old, to say that there are times the
    safety net--I wouldn't be here today, I am certain of that--the
    safety net of getting a helping hand was very instrumental in
    my early life.
        It didn't start out that way, though. What I had happen
    was--is my mother got married at 15 years old to a fellow who
    was in the Air Force at 24, who was my dad. Less than a year
    later, they had my sister, who died two hours after birth from
    spina bifida. And a year later I was born, and my brother was
    born 18 months after that. We lived on a Air Force base in
    Wichita, Kansas. In 1968, when he went to Vietnam for the third
    time, a young mother of two--of three, really, couldn't take it
    anymore, and moved us to the Ozark Mountains in Arkansas, and
    she married a guy who did not like to work.
        And because of that, that was the first stage, the first
    time in our family history that we ever lived on government
    subsidies. And it wasn't because he couldn't work, it was
    because he figured out how to manipulate the system, how to
    declare himself insane so he could check himself in and out, so
    he could use that to further get subsidies from the federal
    government. I lived that way from the time I was seven years
    old until I left home at 17 years old.
        I remember the embarrassment very--I was the oldest,
    because my mother went on to have three more children with him.
    My oldest sister with him has spina bifida. She has had it
    since--she just turned 50 two weeks ago. Her daughter, oldest
    daughter, has spina bifida.
        I understand what you are saying, ma'am, and it is a
    terrible tragedy. I have lived that life. And I have also, as I
    have said, I have seen the way out. And I am not saying a lot
    of time just work a lot harder. But, you know, this--what we
    have had the opportunity to do in this country is to provide
    helping hands so people can get a start in life.
        I--for the first--until I was in eighth grade, had no
    running water. We lived on food stamps until the time I left
    home at 17. No indoor plumbing until I was in eighth grade. We
    moved houses. People thought my step-dad was in the military.
    It wasn't because of that, it was because he wouldn't pay the
    propane bill, he wouldn't pay the rent, he wouldn't pay for
    anything. And we moved from everywhere. We would drive cars and
    trucks, and I would sit on the fender, and hold the gas can,
    because the fuel pump wouldn't work. I have seen bad stuff.
        And I am also here today to tell you I have been in
    Congress now for seven months, and I came here not because I
    needed another job, because I wanted another career, it is
    because I wanted to make a difference. And that is what it is
    all about. You have to have people here who have truly
    experienced it, not read it in a book, not seeing it on the TV
    show, not watching a movie, some people that have actually seen
    what you can do in this country, still the greatest country in
    the world.
        It is the American Dream to come to a place where you have
    the opportunity to be as poor as you want to be or as wealthy
    as you want to be.
        I heard a guy say one time the bus leaves town every day.
    And I got on that bus and I never looked back. I am not saying
    it was not ups and downs along the way, but it has been a tough
    road. It has not been easy. There is no doubt that people that
    I know today think I got everything given to me, everything.
    And it was never that way.
        And I have never taken a dime from the federal government.
    I am not saying I am proud of that, but I just said it was my
    mission in life to do whatever I had to do, not to do that. And
    does that mean I am critical of those who do? I am absolutely
    not.
        But I am here to help people get a job, a better job, and a
    career.
        I will tell you what I think has happened in this country,
    is that we have kind of lost what that journey is. I worked
    three jobs--I mean, when I was young I would go to California,
    we would pick cherries, live in cherry fields and olive fields
    all the way through summer, come back. You know, I got married
    when I was 19 years old, worked hard, got an engineering
    degree, worked three jobs in college, all this kind of stuff.
        Chairman Yarmuth. You are a minute over your time, and you
    have got your five minutes coming.
        Mr. Hern. Okay, thank you. I will get the rest of that when
    I come back.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you. The gentleman's time has
    expired. I now yield five minutes to the gentleman from New
    York, Mr. Morelle.
        Mr. Morelle. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for yet
    another important hearing that you are holding. And I want to
    thank all the witnesses for being here today and sharing your
    personal stories.
        In particular, Ms. Greer, I lost my daughter to breast
    cancer, so I am particularly grateful to you for demonstrating
    the courage to be here and sharing your story, as well.
        I think the testimony today shows how vital federal safety
    net programs are to so many people's survival throughout our
    country. And I would echo the comments of many of my
    colleagues. I am very familiar with the critical need for many
    of these programs, as Rochester, New York, which I represent,
    has an overall poverty rate of 33.1 percent, with the
    percentage of children living in poverty sitting at 52 percent,
    the second highest in the United States.
        And we need to recognize that individuals and families
    impacted by poverty are fighting, literally, for their
    survival. From affordable housing to food insecurity, from
    transportation barriers to adequate child care, the challenges
    are overwhelming. And more often than not, leave far too many
    people trapped in a perpetual cycle of hopelessness.
        So I want to take just a few minutes allotted to me to
    discuss the need to develop an integrated system of supports
    for individuals and families living in poverty, in crisis. And
    if I might quote Dr. King, aptly he once said, ``There is
    nothing new about poverty. What is new, however, is that we
    have the resources to get rid of it.'' That is what inspired
    some of the work we have undertaken in my district. I want to
    take a moment to just describe it, and then ask a couple of
    questions.
        In the summer of 2017, I helped convene over 40 individuals
    and leaders from health, human service, and the education
    sectors to discuss the current state of disconnected services,
    the poor outcomes that result, whether it--and whether a single
    integrated system of supports had the potential to deliver
    better results for people in our community.
        And out of that conversation, hundreds of people in our
    community--educators, social service providers, health care
    providers, and people impacted by poverty--have created the
    Systems Integration Project, and it recognizes the impact of
    structural racism, the need for trauma-informed care, and the
    need for community building. And it aims to provide
    comprehensive, connected supports that link program silos
    together, the fragmentation that we often see. And we hope to
    move people from crisis to self-sufficiency.
        So I do want to talk about the way we deliver services. And
    perhaps, Dr. Barber, maybe you could just reflect and give me
    some thoughts about how the current fragmentation, and the
    different silos, and people needing to move from program to
    program, and--to get eligibility and continue to fill out
    forms, to be moved around, have you seen the impacts of that?
    Is that something that troubles you? Is it something that the
    Poor People's Campaign has thought about, in terms of how
    better to deliver the actual services that we do have?
        Rev. Dr. Barber. Well, first of all, let me just say part
    of the problem is, yes, we have poor people chasing here and
    there. We have siloed these issues that can't be siloed. That
    is what we have said, poverty, systemic racism, systemic
    ecological devastation, a war economy must be seen together.
        But I want to also say some other concerns. And I am like
    Liz we have here. It is almost as though people are afraid to
    talk to poor people who would challenge the system. They would
    rather talk to poor people who say, ``Everything is just fine.
    We just work hard.'' That is not true.
        We are not talking about working hard. Living wages--we are
    saying folk ought to have a living wage if they work hard. They
    ought to have health care. We are saying what--we are saying
    that this is not some kind of government handout. This is the
    fact that 62 million people in this country work every day
    without a living wage. And if you just raise it to $15, you
    would have over $300-and-some billion going into the economy.
        It is amazing to us, as people of faith, and we sit here
    and look--and we are showing--this is showing the moral crisis:
    We never say this to business when they fail. When people fail,
    ``We want to love you, and work hard. And we all got a story
    about poverty.'' When businesses fail, let's find the money.
    Let's find the money to lift them up. Let's give them
    government welfare, corporate welfare.
        And instead of talking about, wow, this article just came
    out, a moral economy would save taxpayers billions of dollars.
    If we had immigration reform, it would save and lift people up.
    If we had eliminate--we could eliminate child poverty,
    universal single payer would empower this economy. Free higher
    education. If we invested in true voting rights, if we had
    Pentagon cuts, if we had an end to mass incarceration, if we
    had invested to give people safe drinking water, job creation,
    living wages, climate justice.
        We are not--we are talking about lifting this country up,
    not about everybody giving us--I could tell the story of
    poverty, and I say to people who say that story--just because
    society failed you then doesn't mean it ought to continue to
    fail now.
        It is tragic in a society where our first constitutional
    duty is to establish justice and promote the general welfare--
    the general welfare--that we would allow the injustice of
    poverty--43.5 percent of poor people are poverty--and people
    here who could teach this society. And we would walk away from
    our constitutional values, and walk away from our spiritual
    values that tell us that it is dangerous for a nation not to
    lift up the poor.
        I tell you that we have a deeper moral crisis, and this is
    why we need this Committee to go out and organize even more and
    more and more poor people until folk are willing to listen to
    the people who are hurt and beat up every day about what must
    be challenged and changed.
        Chairman Yarmuth. The gentleman's time has expired. I now
    recognize Mr. Hern again. I didn't charge you--I won't you----
        Mr. Hern. I am back.
        Chairman Yarmuth--for the extra minute, but I will hold you
    to your five minutes this time.
        Mr. Hern. No, thank you, Mr. Chairman----
        Chairman Yarmuth. The gentleman is recognized.
        Mr. Hern. I appreciate it. And again, I want to thank the
    witnesses for being here today. And I--you know, Reverend, I
    agree with you 100 percent. We have got to listen, we have got
    to do more. I would--I have gone back and studied this a lot.
    It is one of the reasons I ran, because, you know, again, you
    heard my story.
        And I will abbreviate it by saying this: I had the
    opportunity--kind of fluke, how it happened--to get into
    McDonald's Corporation, or into the franchising program as an
    assistant manager. And I worked my tail off, created three
    jobs, learned how to be a computer programmer when I was in
    college. I was very blessed to get my first McDonald's
    restaurant in 1997. It was the last time I signed--that was the
    first time and the last time that I ever worked for anybody
    else, other than myself.
        The thing that is interesting about it is, as most know,
    entry-level jobs, that was not satisfying to me. I worked at
    minimum wage when I was dipping pickles at the pickle plant
    when I was 16 years old.
        The point being with this is I made it a mission in life to
    figure out how to get people accelerated, teach them how to
    work, teach them how to pay taxes, teach them how to appreciate
    things. And we have had a lot of folks that have come up with
    minimal education making $60, $70,000 a year. I don't--all my
    average wages are way above Oklahoma's living wage. We offered
    insurance. People have insurance. Long before Affordable Health
    Care. I think it is critical.
        I think what has happened in America, as I have looked back
    over the last 20 years, when you look at real wages in America,
    they are about the same as they were, while everything else has
    gone through the roof. Cars are doubled, houses have doubled.
    We have shipped those great-paying jobs that--for entry level
    and middle class overseas.
        And I think, if you look--regardless if you like President
    Trump or not, if you look at what has happened by bringing jobs
    back to America, that is what it is all about, bringing good-
    paying jobs back to America, so that folks have the ability to
    transition off of the helping hand into a entry-level job that
    quickly accelerates into a middle-class job that can quickly
    accelerate into a career.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. You don't believe that should start with a
    living wage?
        Mr. Hern. You know, it is according to what the person is.
    If it is a person who has got kids----
        Rev. Dr. Barber. A human being that created by God. They
    shouldn't start with a living wage, if they are working 40
    hours a week?
        Mr. Hern. If they are 16 years old, living at home, that
    might be different.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. I am talking about--if they are 16, or 18,
    or 19, or 20, shouldn't they have a living wage?
        Mr. Hern. Sure.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. A living wage.
        Mr. Hern. If they are living by themselves, and yes. I mean
    I worked my tail off----
        Rev. Dr. Barber. They should have a living wage if they got
    two people in a house, but they should have a living wage if
    they----
        Mr. Hern. Well, again, we have to look at the numbers. You
    have got stats. I will look at the facts, as well. Again, I----
        Rev. Dr. Barber. I hope we can. I really want to talk to
    you, because I believe that down in there there is a heart
    somewhere.
        [Laughter.]
        Rev. Dr. Barber. I want to get with you brother. I want to
    get with you. Maybe you can save the other folk that just want
    to blame the poor.
        Mr. Hern. No, I don't blame the poor.
        Rev. Dr. Theoharis. Especially when wages have stagnated,
    especially when wages have stagnated for the past 40 years.
        Mr. Hern. Oh, sorry?
        Chairman Yarmuth. You control your time, Mr. Hern. You can
    do whatever with it. You can continue the dialogue----
        Mr. Hern. No, no, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate it. And again,
    I just want to thank you for the passion in this group, because
    it is something we all should be concerned about. And I know
    everybody is.
        And you came in here with the statement, Reverend, that
    said this should be a bipartisan issue. And I agree, 110
    percent, that it should be a bipartisan issue, and we should do
    everything that we need--we should look at the things we are
    doing to help folks rise out of that poverty when times are
    bad. We heard it from our folks on our side.
        And also we should look at how we get them--because, as you
    said, you want folks to get a job, and you want them to be
    moving forward, because it is not just about working hard. A
    lot of people work really hard. There is some bad things that
    happen out there, some bad things that happen. And how do we
    take care of them?
        And I have seen it firsthand. I have lived it firsthand. I
    have seen folks--as you all know, there are people who start at
    McDonald's that has had a tough life. I have listened to those.
    I have had folks who have had their wives killed, you know, and
    the list goes on and on. I have been there to help them. I
    don't go broadcast this, because that is what--you don't do
    that, as a person that is trying to help somebody, when you are
    in business.
        I am here now in a different role, a role to go back and
    represent my district and those folks who elected me, because
    they heard my story time and time again, and had time to proof
    it out. And so that is why I am here. I want to help.
        Mr. Chairman, I yield back my time.
        Chairman Yarmuth. The gentleman yields back. I now
    recognize the gentlelady from California, the Chairwoman of the
    Poverty Task Force in the House, Barbara Lee from California,
    for five minutes.
        Ms. Lee. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me thank
    you and our Ranking Member for putting this very important
    hearing together today.
        And let me thank Bishop Reverend Barber. Let me thank
    Reverend Theoharis, and let me thank all of you for being here
    today, because you are truly bearing witness on behalf of the
    poor and the near-poor who are living on the edge in the
    wealthiest country in the world.
        Now, I want to thank you also for leading the Poor People's
    Campaign, and calling it a national call for moral revival,
    because that is what it is, and for all of your moral clarity.
        You remind me today of Dr.--another one of Dr. King's
    speeches, which he gave at Riverside Church, when he talked
    about society's three evils: poverty, racism and militarism,
    which still loom large today in our own country. Now, let me
    just mention a couple things.
        First of all, as someone who was on food stamps and public
    assistance, I know just how important your presence is here
    today, and how important your voices are. But let me tell you,
    when I was on public assistance, I was able to buy a house
    because of a government policy that allowed people on public
    assistance to purchase a home. I was able later to go to
    college, and it was because of government policies that
    promoted and allowed for affirmative action and the civil
    rights movement. I was allowed later, before coming to
    Congress, to establish and own a business. I had 450 employees,
    union workers, good-paying union wages, good-paying jobs. I was
    able to start my own business because of government policies
    that allowed for that.
        I received the opportunities through many years of struggle
    by so many people and so many organizations who forced our
    government to--the war on poverty--to establish policies that
    would provide those opportunities so that myself, as a young
    African-American black woman, would have some opportunities to
    achieve justice and parity. Now we see all of these policies
    being, unfortunately, rolled back.
        Many of you know that I have worked with a group of non-
    denominational clergy members--we call it the Circle of
    Protection--to highlight and make recommendations on the
    intersection between racism and poverty. It is a document
    called Unity Declaration on Racism and Poverty.
        Mr. Chairman, I would like permission to insert this
    document into the record.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Without objection, so ordered.
        [The information follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Ms. Lee. Thank you. Because many of these recommendations
    incorporate many of the line items and the budget
    recommendations which you have presented in terms of the moral
    budget, we also must begin to repair the damage for the
    inhumane government-sanctioned institution of slavery, which
    continues to be manifested today in systematic and
    institutional racism.
        But your recommendations in the poor people's moral budget,
    it puts us on a path to closing these economic and racial
    disparities, not only for African-Americans, but for the 140
    million who are poor and who are low-wealth individuals.
        And so I thank you for putting forth a budget, and a plan,
    and a roadmap where we know we can do this: raising the minimum
    wage to a living wage; universal health care; federal
    investments in affordable housing; lowering the cost of
    prescription drugs; child tax credit, all of your
    recommendations are recommendations which this Committee should
    embrace.
        And so I wanted to ask specifically regarding one of the
    recommendations, the $350 billion in annual military spending,
    and what this would do if we were able to finally have the
    political will to look at the Pentagon budget, how this would
    begin to help us reduce poverty in America, and addressing the
    economic inequality which we once again see each and every day,
    which you all are fighting to ensure that we eliminate and end.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. Representative Lee, can I say something?
    If his time has run out, I hope we can get his back that he
    gave up.
        But anyway, we--first of all, we are taking--53 to nearly
    60 percent of every discretionary dollar is going to our
    militarism. Less than $.16 is going toward health care and
    infrastructure, the things that will lift us out.
        But there is another piece we have to add to this, and I
    want to bring this as a race piece. Liz and Callie and I talk
    about this all the time. In this country, every state that is a
    voter suppression state, there is a high poverty state, high
    child poverty state, lack of health care state, low living wage
    state. And guess what? The people who get elected, the racist
    voter suppression, they then turn around and pass policy to
    hurt mostly white people. Let that sink in this room. The
    people who use racialized voter suppression end up passing
    policy that hurt mostly white people, because they are more
    poor whites in raw numbers--not in concentration--than there
    are black.
        We have to--and if we don't get the voting piece right, we
    are never going to get people in these offices that will deal
    with the military issues and those kinds of things. So there is
    a direct connection between racialized voter suppression and
    the poverty that concentrates in people of color's lives, but
    also affects, in raw numbers, more white people than people of
    color.
        Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is there a way we can get
    some time that our colleague gave back?
        Chairman Yarmuth. Well, he has got--if you want to go to
    the minute mark, you got another 30 seconds, because he went
    over a minute.
        Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Rev. Dr. Theoharis. So we will take it, because $.53 of
    every discretionary dollar going to the military, we are having
    welfare programs for the rich, for the Pentagon, for the
    military. And so I want- I want Callie to talk a little bit
    about what we could do with the money, what we are asking you
    all to do with the money.
        Ms. Greer. So----
        Chairman Yarmuth. How about--the gentlelady's time has
    expired. How about if, when I get my time at the end, I will
    let Ms. Greer answer that question.
        Ms. Greer. Thank you.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Fine. So now I yield five minutes to the
    gentleman from Texas, Mr. Crenshaw.
        Mr. Crenshaw. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for
    all being here. This is an important subject. And, really, what
    it comes down to is what works and what doesn't. We all have an
    interest in solving any kind of poverty problem, no matter how
    small it is. We have to ask the question: What works and what
    doesn't?
        Fifty years ago, President Lyndon Johnson declared a war on
    poverty. In the last 50 years we have spent trillions of
    dollars to alleviate poverty. What is the result? Our poverty
    rate when the War on Poverty started in 1966 was about 14.7
    percent. By 2014 it was about the same. Even after spending
    trillions of dollars in the last 10 years, spending on means-
    tested welfare programs have increased from $430 billion to
    $742 billion. It has almost doubled.
        And we can attach the size of our heart to dollar signs all
    we want, we can claim that anybody who argues otherwise is
    immoral. I think that is unfair. You can argue it, but you
    can't argue the fact that it hasn't worked.
        But actually, in the last three years or so, since 2014, we
    have seen some decrease in poverty: 12 percent. But what
    changed? What changed? It is not the increase in spending, that
    has been continuous. Wage growth has increased. The economy has
    boomed. A 3.2 percent wage growth. By the way, the overwhelming
    amount of that has gone to the bottom quintile of earners. It
    does not go to the top. That is by the statistics. It is also
    more jobs than we have ever had to fill them.
        I would say things that don't work are policies that make
    it harder for the poor to survive.
        A carbon tax, for instance--we have been talking a lot
    about ecological justice. Well, what about a carbon tax that
    would raise energy prices? It would raise gas prices. Look at
    California. Look at Germany's experiment with their own form of
    a green new deal. They haven't reduced emissions, and they have
    raised prices on everybody. The rich can handle that just fine.
    They have got no problem handling that. The poor, they cannot
    handle that.
        Over-regulating housing markets, hampering development,
    that causes rents to rise. Just look at San Francisco. Look at
    New York. Again, the rich don't mind, but the poor do. It hurts
    the poor.
        Occupational licensing requirements, they can be terribly
    hard and burdensome on the poor. If you are trying to be a
    hairdresser, or just get into cosmetology, or become a plumber,
    it is more difficult, the more regulations you have. In Texas
    we just solved this. We just made it easier for anybody to get
    a good-paying job as a plumber. We are very proud of that.
        Any of you agree, I wonder, that Congress should actually
    increase payroll taxes on everybody across the board, from
    12.3, 12.4 percent to over 14 percent? I doubt any of you would
    agree on that, because that is an increase in taxes on
    everybody. It takes away from everybody. And I bet you would
    definitely not agree that that money should then be transferred
    to people in retirement who are millionaires. By the way, that
    is Social Security 2100, that is the Democrats' plan right now.
    I don't think any of you would agree with that.
        The method in which we have been delivering welfare
    payments isn't working, either. We have created perverse
    incentives and disincentives, well intentioned through our
    desire to help, to the trap people in these safety nets. And
    let me show you what I mean.
        For instance, in Texas there is a single parent of two on
    welfare and SNAP programs. They will end up taking a huge cut
    on their benefits if they even get a minimal raise. So, to
    flush this out, a single mom is desperately trying to provide
    her children with a better life. She works really hard. She
    pays it off. She is offered a promotion. But that raise comes
    with it--it will actually make her worse off than before,
    because she loses some of those benefits. So she has to turn it
    down. This is not a good policy. In Texas, this means you are
    actually taxing the poor at a 53 percent marginal tax rate. And
    in other states it can be as high as 104 percent.
        So let's talk about what has worked. Brookings says it is--
    and this is a left-wing think tank--studies have shown that if
    you finish high school, you get a job, any job, and wait until
    21 to get married and have kids, you have an overwhelming
    chance of getting out of poverty. Seventy-five percent join the
    middle class, only two percent remain in poverty.
        Earned Income Tax Credits. The EITC does not punish someone
    for earning more. Its benefits continue, even as you make more
    income. This is bipartisan. We all agree on this. This is good
    policy. So it incentivizes people to improve their livelihood,
    while also maintaining that final--financial cushion beneath
    them. They don't fall off of a benefits cliff. So rather than
    being stuck at an entry-level job, they can keep making it.
        We also have to be focused on addressing the skills gap.
    All right. That is a huge part. We talk about building more
    capital for the poor. Education is a big part of that. Why
    don't we look at changing the Pell Grant program? I bet a lot
    of you would say that it is not always realistic for somebody
    to get a four-year degree. Spend that four years--maybe they
    have a family to feed. Why don't we make Pell Grants available
    for skills, or for trades? Shorter-term duration training?
        God, I wish I had more time to ask you all questions,
    because I do have a lot. But Ms. Fields, I want to end with
    this.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. Please read this--you haven't--please
    read----
        Mr. Crenshaw. Ms. Fields, I want to end with this.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. Please read it.
        Mr. Crenshaw. When you teach your kids, do you----
        Rev. Dr. Barber. Please read it.
        Mr. Crenshaw. Do you teach them--Mr. Chairman, if you will
    indulge me this one question, or----
        Chairman Yarmuth. Go ahead and get it out.
        Mr. Crenshaw. Okay.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Crenshaw. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        When you--you said you homeschooled your kids. I want to
    understand what values you teach them. Do you teach them to be
    responsible for themselves? Do you teach them that their
    actions matter? Or do you teach them that the system is working
    against them? Do you teach them that, no matter what they do,
    they can't thrive? I mean, what would you teach somebody if you
    loved them?
        Rev. Fields. Well, I definitely teach them personal
    responsibility. And even to add to that, where you are saying
    about trade, me and my husband both, even though I have a
    bachelor's degree, I also have a trade. My husband is a barber.
    He has a trade. We have lived the life they are saying with the
    living wages. I bought a house making $4.25 an hour. So we
    understand living on wages. But the way we got out of poverty
    is what you are saying, is we got trade. We went and got an
    education.
        And me and my husband talk about that all the time. If the
    government could make trade more accessible, you know, spend
    those federal dollars so people can sharpen their skills and
    get out--my husband just bought us a three-bedroom home, two
    full-bath home in Chicago being a barber, with a trade. He has
    a 10th grade education, and he did it with a trade skill. So
    those are the kind of programs that we should be advocating for
    our government to sharpen our skills, bring back those trade
    skills into the black community, so that we can rise above
    poverty. We can't do it with just a high school education all
    the time. We need trade. We need skills.
        Mr. Crenshaw. Thank you, and----
        Rev. Dr. Barber. Could I just say that----
        Mr. Crenshaw. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and----
        Chairman Yarmuth. The gentleman's time----
        Mr. Crenshaw. It was a good conversation about solutions,
    thank you.
        Chairman Yarmuth.----has expired. Reverend Barber, I am
    sorry. I now yield five minutes to the gentleman from Nevada,
    Mr. Horsford.
        Mr. Horsford. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. This is a
    very important hearing today. I want to thank Reverend Dr.
    William Barber, II, as well as Reverend Dr. Liz Theoharis. It
    is good to see you. I know your brother. He does work with my
    wife, who is a professor at Columbia. But thank you for being
    here today, and for talking about the Poor People's Campaign
    and your vision for how we strengthen children, families, and
    communities, which is at the core of what this hearing is
    really all about.
        Thank you to my esteemed colleague, Congresswoman Barbara
    Lee, the Chair of the Poverty Congressional Caucus, for
    highlighting this issue, not just today, but for many years
    prior to today's hearing.
        Now I want to get right to it. Since I was sworn in on
    January 3rd of this year, the Trump Administration and my
    colleagues on the other side have attacked nearly every safety
    net program from every angle that they can think of. This after
    passing the jobs and tax cut scam of the last Congress that
    provided 83 percent of the benefits to the top 1 percent wage
    earners and biggest corporations in this country.
        And now on the backs of those individuals, because their
    tax cut adds to our federal deficit, they have proposed cutting
    SNAP by $220 billion, cutting Social Security by $84 billion,
    and other disability programs, cutting $1.5 trillion from
    Medicaid over 10 years, and a 10 percent across-the-board cut
    to TANF block grant.
        This Administration's most recent attack on safety net
    programs came by way of a proposed rule through the U.S. Office
    of Management and Budget that would change the way the federal
    government measures poverty, which is--has not been very well
    publicized, because this Administration does not want to bring
    attention to the fact that they are balancing their tax cut on
    the backs of poor people.
        Chairman, the Chairman and I sent a letter to the acting
    OMB director, expressing our deep concerns about this
    rulemaking change. And Mr. Chairman, I would like to enter that
    letter into the record.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Without objection.
        [The information follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Horsford. I would also like to enter a article, ``Black
    Poverty is Rooted in Real Estate Exploitation'' into the
    record.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Without objection.
        [The information follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Horsford. The proposed rule would inevitably lower the
    income eligibility limits for safety-net programs that are tied
    to the poverty line, and will impose unfathomable hardships on
    families. The proposal would disproportionately affect many
    constituents in my home state of Nevada, including 425,000
    Nevadans that receive SNAP benefits, 633,000 Nevadans that are
    enrolled in Medicaid and SCHIP, and 3,000 children that are
    eligible for Head Start and Early Head Start programs that I
    can't get in because they want to cut the budget.
        I have young people and their families that are on a
    waiting list. You talk about investing in education, talk about
    investing in career and technical education. Their budget cuts
    the very programs that you propose to invest in.
        And it's personal, because it comes to the children, our
    families, and the communities. I come from a poor community. I
    grew up in a poor community, raised by a single parent. I lost
    my father to gun violence when I was 19. But for the support of
    programs like this, I would not be sitting here as a Member of
    Congress. So I have an obligation, like my colleagues who are
    trying to bring attention to this issue, to the priorities and
    the values of our budget, as the Speaker said.
        Ms. Kinsey and Alcocer, I listened to your deeply personal
    testimonies. Can you explain to us what you would have done,
    had you been kicked off of these safety net programs? How would
    you have been able to survive?
        Ms. Alcocer. As an undocumented person, first of all, most
    of us don't have access to any of these programs. Um, I just
    want to make that clear.
        The reason--and the way that our community is coping is
    making survival methods. I mean, we literally have to organize
    ourselves in a way that we are protecting our community and
    protecting ourselves.
        And like I said before, [speaking foreign language], there
    is times where our government even tells us that they don't
    have money to cover potholes. What are communities doing? They
    fundraise for cement and cover our own potholes.
        There are times where we are told that there is no lighting
    for our alleys. And what we are doing is that we are buying--go
    to Home Depot and buy the solar panels with lighting, and
    install them ourselves.
        These are the things that our community has to resource to,
    because there is a lack of will within our government to
    resolve issues that are very basic. The fact that we have to go
    to our community members when there is someone in need and say,
    ``Hey, do you have a tomato, do you have a potato? Do you have
    some chicken so we can put a basket together for this family
    that is in need,'' it is something that we have to resource to.
        And there is--it is true. There are churches that do lend a
    helping hand. There are churches that are serving--giving food
    out on Sundays because they understand that there is a need for
    hunger in their communities (sic), but they also understand
    that they need to push the government to do more.
        Mr. Horsford. Thank you. It is a partnership.
        Ms. Alcocer. Exactly.
        Mr. Horsford. And we have to work together----
        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you----
        Mr. Horsford.----to meet the needs of our people.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman----
        Chairman Yarmuth. The gentleman's time has expired. I now
    recognize the gentlelady from Washington, Ms. Jayapal, for five
    minutes.
        Ms. Jayapal. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you
    to my friend, Barbara Lee, for her unwavering leadership on
    lifting up poverty across this country, and the urgency of now,
    the urgency of addressing this issue now.
        But most of all, I am grateful to you, from the Poor
    People's Campaign, who are here, bringing the people's voice to
    the people's house. I am grateful for your courage and for your
    moral clarity, which came through so clearly in every one of
    your testimonies.
        And your organizing reminds us that poverty is not
    inevitable. It is caused by human-created structures and
    immoral policies. You remind us that we can lift up a whole
    society to create community prosperity. And you remind us that
    we can and we must have health care for all people. You remind
    us that no human being is illegal. You remind us that mass
    incarceration is dangerous, racist, and completely avoidable,
    that war and a giant military budget are moral outrages, and
    that, most importantly, you remind us that those most directly
    affected by poverty and oppression are actually the ones best
    equipped to lead us forward.
        As your people's moral budget report so eloquently states,
    poverty is a willful act of policy violence that leaves over 43
    percent of the population poor or low-income.
        So thank you for being here today with us. And thank you
    for your clarity and your courage.
        Let me start with you, Ms. Greer. I could not listen to
    your story without feeling the same tears that you were-you
    were feeling, nothing like what you were feeling, but feeling
    some piece of that. That painful story of the loss of your
    daughter, what you had to go through--and you said something
    very powerful. You said we shouldn't have to ask for this. We
    shouldn't have to ask for health care. It is a right.
        Hearing your personal story about the immense suffering of
    your family, and so many other families across the country that
    are experiencing not having health insurance, this basic right
    of health insurance--as you may know, I have introduced a
    Medicare for All bill for universal health care because I
    believe this is a human right.
        But one of the things that I am confronted with, with
    critics constantly, is people who say that this would be too
    expensive, that the United States can't do universal health
    care because it would be too expensive. Can you give me
    guidance on how you would respond to that, and what you want me
    to say every time I hear that?
        Ms. Greer. I would say to you the federal cost for
    expanding Medicaid in those--in 14 states will be about $25
    billion in the first year. That is about the same amount the
    Pentagon hands over to Boeing every year.
        Okay, one more time.
        Rev. Dr. Theoharis. That is right.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. Teach us.
        Ms. Greer. The federal cost for expanding Medicaid in 14--
    not one--in 14 states would be about $25 billion in the first
    year. That is about the same amount that the Pentagon has owed
    to Boeing every year.
        Ms. Jayapal. Thank you. Thank you for that. And you have
    transitioned me to my next question. I have questions for every
    one of you, but I am not going to have time. But my next
    question is for Mr. Overfelt.
        I have been trying to take on with some of my colleagues
    the outrageous amounts of money spent on military defense. And
    it seems like this increasing spending on war and military
    defense is often seen as something you cannot even challenge,
    and that, if you challenge it, you are somehow unpatriotic.
        Mr. Overfelt, you are a patriot, a true patriot who has
    actually put your life on the line and served in the military
    yourself. Many of the people who advocate for increased defense
    spending have not done that. So can you tell me how we should
    respond to the charge that it is somehow unpatriotic to try to
    cut our spending on military defense and endless wars in order
    to have a better world? But yes, also to transfer some of those
    funds to the things that we really need to have a safe and
    secure nation and world.
        Mr. Overfelt. Well, I flew in here from Kansas City. And
    when I flew in, I flew--I could see the Pentagon out the
    window. And I saw right next to the Pentagon, I saw a building
    with the name Boeing on it. And right next to that, I saw a
    building with the name Lockheed Martin on it. These are--these
    entities are--go hand in glove. The Pentagon acts as a siphon
    towards military contractors, I siphon of taxpayer money that
    could be used to help us in our communities.
        I want to say that when we talk about American foreign
    policy, we need to understand the context in which it operates,
    which is the flow of resources from the southern hemisphere to
    the northern hemisphere. That is not to keep us safe, that is
    in the national interests of corporations, of transnational
    corporations, and to ensure their profits. So we are spending
    taxpayer money to subsidize transnational corporations, not to
    keep the American people safe.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you. The----
        Ms. Jayapal. Thank you. And, Mr. Chairman, just quickly,
    before I yield back, let me say Boeing is in my state, and it
    used to be the kind of company that actually supported living-
    wage jobs, unionization, good-good working-class jobs. That is
    not the case today. And I thank you for raising that up.
        And let us just imagine a world where we could have
    corporations who understand that they can only be successful if
    they are lifting up the communities and the people that are--
    that make up those corporations, that that make up those
    communities.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Thank you, the gentlelady's time has
    expired. I now recognize the gentleman from New Jersey, Mr.
    Sires, for five minutes.
        Mr. Sires. Well, good afternoon, and thank you for being
    here. I made sure I stayed here to listen to every one of you
    before I had to go to my office.
        Let me give you a little bit about my background. I
    represent the northern part of New Jersey. I represent cities
    like Jersey City, portions of Newark. I represent the town of
    West New York, the city I live in. And just to give you an
    idea, that is--it is one square mile, and we have 53,000
    people. Ninety-three percent of the student body in that town
    is Hispanic. So that tells you that it is not a wealthy
    district.
        We depend--I was--I am a former mayor of that town. As a
    mayor, I depended on federally-funded clinics to be able to
    help these people. If we didn't have that, I don't know what we
    would have done, even just to get the shots so they could
    attend to school. That federally-funded clinic was very, very
    important. That is not to mention all the other--diabetes,
    which, in minorities, is a big, big problem. So federally-
    funded clinics and federally-funded programs, I think, are
    extremely important to help people get out of poverty.
        I just visited a housing complex on Friday in Newark, New
    Jersey. I mean, it is just incredible, some of these conditions
    that people are living in. They are trying to do something
    about it.
        And we have a lot of problems with these formulas. You
    know, this poverty formula goes back 40 years, and only a
    little bit for inflation. But there is also a great area that
    you can help people. They seem to fall off that formula to
    assist the people.
        And not to mention--and to mention the amount of veterans
    that we are getting that have no place to live, no housing for
    veterans. After World War II there was an effort to help the
    veterans. I am hopeful that in the future we can have the same
    kind of programs so we can help veterans.
        So when you talk about poverty, you know, I live it. I grew
    up in that town. I came to this country when I was 11 years
    old. My father and mother had a fourth and fifth grade
    education. But some of these programs are just necessary for
    people to take on the next step. Housing, affordable housing,
    low-income housing, I think, is a priority. And I just want
    from you to tell me which of those programs you think is the
    best to improve, so we can get some decent housing for some of
    these people.
        Rev. Dr. Theoharis. So, I mean, there are quite a few
    programs that we need. I mean, we need rent subsidies, we need
    to build more public housing. We need to stop the
    criminalization of people who are homeless.
        So it is--so I think how we take these issues in the
    Campaign is that we see them all connected. And we need to
    raise wages, because that is a housing issue. We need to ensure
    medical care, because that is a housing issue. We need to fund
    education and health for our veterans, because that is a
    housing issue. That we need to build up Head Start, because
    that is a funding--a housing issue.
        All of these programs that you all have power to fund, we
    need--when people talk about the question of wages and then
    losing your eligibility for some of these programs, we need to
    raise eligibility and raise wages. We should not be talking
    about lowering eligibility of poverty programs, of housing
    programs. We shouldn't be talking about attaching work
    requirements to housing programs, to food programs.
        Mr. Sires. You know, talk about Head Start. One of the most
    successful programs that I saw is when we contracted with Head
    Start to take care of the children after they get out of
    school, what they call their wrap-around program, because that
    gave the ability of the parents to go and get a job and work,
    they know that their children were being taken care of. So
    those are the kind of programs that I think would help.
        Rev. Dr. Theoharis. And Head Start has this piece on the
    maximum feasible participation of people who are poor. It is a
    community jobs program. It is a community health program. It is
    a- a interlocking program.
        But Kenia had some insight.
        Ms. Alcocer. Housing----
        Rev. Dr. Barber. Poor People's Campaign--out of the first
    Poor People's Campaign program is because preachers and
    everyday people came to this body, because they heard what the
    Lord said about the homeless and housing. That is a part of the
    Poor People's Campaign. Yes.
        Chairman Yarmuth. Very, very briefly, please.
        Ms. Alcocer. Well, one of the things that I want to say is
    public housing is very important. People living in public
    housing are----
        Mr. Sires. Decent public housing.
        Ms. Alcocer.----decent public housing are only paying 30
    percent of their income into homes. People who are paying
    market rate rent today are paying 60 to 70 percent of their
    income into housing.
        Mr. Sires. Absolutely.
        Ms. Alcocer. That means that sometimes we have to stay up
    at night, figuring out what bill we pay, if we can buy milk for
    our children, and if we are going to be able to pay our rent.
    That is what we need, we need to be able to pay only 30 percent
    of our income into housing.
        Mr. Sires. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman.
        Chairman Yarmuth. The gentleman's time has expired. I now
    recognize Mr. Stewart for five minutes.
        Mr. Stewart. I thank the Chairman and Ranking Member, and
    apologize to you and other members and the witnesses for not
    being able to be here earlier. Other hearings and some I had to
    chair, and I just wish I could.
        I understand it has been a very interesting hearing. I
    don't know that I have been to a hearing where we have had
    quite so many witnesses; I hope you all have had a chance to
    express your views.
        And I want you to know that I think we have common goals. I
    don't think there is anyone in this room who doesn't have a
    desire to lift people up, to help them live productive lives,
    to help them feel like the government wants to make their lives
    easier, if possible, and not harder. I think the concern I have
    is sometimes some people think government is the answer.
    Sometimes they think it is the only answer. And we know that
    there are other pieces to this puzzle. And I would like to
    spend a few minutes talking about some of those, if we could.
        Again, recognizing government is not the only source of
    anti-poverty spending, I love these statistics, some of these
    facts. America is the most generous nation, I think, the world
    has ever seen. And we should be proud of that. We should
    recognize that. $410 billion in 2017 Americans gave to
    charitable organizations. There is not another country that
    comes even close to that.
        In some of my writing, I have had a chance to analyze that.
    We are a very generous people. Interestingly, more than a 5
    percent increase from the previous year. So we are not becoming
    less generous. In many ways we are becoming more generous. And
    I am grateful for those people who participate in ways like
    that.
        Anti-poverty programs, they don't just rely on government
    funding, and we are grateful for that, for these other people
    that are generous. Being from Utah--most of you don't know
    that, it is not something you would know, but I am from--Salt
    Lake City is my district, and a beautiful city, and it is,
    obviously, the headquarters for the Church of Jesus Christ of
    Latter Day Saints. And they are a great example, I think, of an
    organization that is involved in trying to lift people up and
    to help them.
        They are not the only example. There is many other faith-
    based organizations. There is hundreds or thousands of them who
    also do great work. The Church of Jesus Christ, I think, is a
    good example of it, though. They work in employment services,
    they work in food assistance, the Bishop's Warehouse,
    partnering with other organizations. I have been to the food
    pantries and seen the great work they do. They are not just in
    Utah, by the way, but throughout the country and, frankly,
    throughout the world. Family services, free courses in
    education, and finding a better job. I mean, the list goes on.
        Pastor Mahan, I guess I would ask you, in your background
    there, in your experience, how important are these community
    and faith-based organizations in helping combat poverty, and
    helping do as we all want to do, and that is lift people and
    help better their lives?
        Pastor Mahan. You have to engage them. Thank you, sir. You
    have to engage them. Because anybody in this room that has been
    a part of a program, a government program, whether it is a
    government school, whether it is a government housing program,
    whether it is a government food program, we are being
    disingenuous if we lift those programs up like they are
    blessings all the time. There is a lot of churches that don't
    want to be involved in government stuff, just because it smells
    like government.
        It is like we are just going to throw money at this thing,
    regardless of the values as being, you know--you guys said it.
    There is values behind budgets, but there is also values behind
    programs. And a lot of times they don't want to engage because
    of the values that come behind the money. It is like a Trojan
    horse. Yes, we are going to bless you with money and housing,
    but yet we are going to give you all of these values that are
    against what we believe, and how we raise our families.
        And so you have to engage the churches and, really, all
    faith communities. You have to engage them on how to reach
    their own people. I think it would be a huge step forward.
        Mr. Stewart. And I am going to dive down on that just a
    little bit. A lot of times we talk about money. And you
    obviously can't do much without financial resources. It makes
    it very, very difficult not to have, you know, as I said, the
    resources to fund some of the things.
        But there is another element to that, and that is the
    volunteers, that is people who are willing to, hey, I will be a
    big brother. Hey, I will work at the homeless kitchen. Talk a
    little bit about that, would you, Pastor? And how important are
    volunteers to your community and the service you are trying to
    provide----
        Pastor Mahan. Yes, in our community we just--the mayor just
    gathered all the churches together--it is 20-some pastors--and
    he said, ``If anything goes wrong in this city, everybody knows
    that it is going to be you all that does the brunt of the work
    of fixing and getting people out of this crisis.''
        And so, yes, the churches is critical, and putting their
    hands to the plow. Training the churches to get engaged with
    the schools, training the churches to get engaged at the
    governmental levels, the school board levels, these are
    critical pieces. Because, again, they don't know about what is
    going on in this room. All they know is that we care about
    people. But we are not going to care about people and sacrifice
    our values because the government says that we need to because
    we won't get the money.
        Mr. Stewart. And that is a fair thing to--you know, to
    expect. It would be unfair for someone to be compelled to do
    something that they don't believe, just to have government
    assistance. We could go on.
        But, Chairman, my time is out. Thank you.
        Chairman Yarmuth. The gentleman's time has expired. I now
    recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. Panetta, for five
    minutes.
        Mr. Panetta. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member
    Womack, and, of course, all of the witnesses for being here, as
    well as your preparation to be here. Thank you very much for
    your time, as well as your expertise on these topics.
        I am sure there have been a number of questions asked that
    deal with a number of areas that I wanted to talk about, but I
    am just going to kind of narrow it down. And if I am limited in
    that sense, that is fine. And if you have talked about this, I
    apologize. But I want to talk about affordable housing, and how
    that affects people put in situations and into poverty.
        And in my district, on the central coast of California,
    especially when it comes to renters, what you are going to see
    is about 29 percent of all renters--that is about 31,000
    households--are severely cost burdened, as it is called.
    Basically, then, what that means is that they are paying more
    than 50 percent of their income to housing costs and utilities.
    And so I was wondering if any of you could speak about the high
    cost of housing, and how that drains the pockets of low-income
    families, and how that contributes to homelessness.
        And go ahead, if Drs. Barber and Theoharis, could maybe
    talk about----
        Rev. Dr. Barber. Let Kenia start, because----
        Mr. Panetta. Please.
        Ms. Alcocer. Just to let you know, I work in the city of
    Los Angeles. I am, with Union de Vecinos, which is a tenant
    advocacy organization. We are with the LA Tenants Union. And
    part of my job and my work every day, it is to go into the
    office and see people that are going through eviction
    processes, not just in the city of LA. I have folks coming from
    Long Beach, from Orange County, from San Bernardino, from
    different parts.
        And the issue of housing, it is very, very ingrained in the
    fact that there is no safety net when it comes to housing,
    unless you are in public housing, or--because even section
    eight you can lose, right?
        So one of the things that I think it is very important is
    that we have to talk about rent control. There needs to be a
    cap on these rental markets. We need to make sure that we are
    doing something about it. And communities have been organizing.
    But the reality is that all of these corporations, and all of
    these land owners, and homeowners lied. We tried passing Prop
    10 last year. That would have allowed us to have a statewide
    rent control that would have allowed communities to feel safe.
        In Boyle Heights our community is being gentrified. There
    is high investment that is coming into our community, but it is
    not for our community. Our community is being driven out of
    Boyle Heights into San Bernardino County, where we have seen
    that it is an under-developed county. So part of the work that
    we need to do, it is to make sure that, when we are investing,
    we are investing in the actual community that lives in that
    community, and not pushing those communities out.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. We have to have an increase in investment
    infrastructure in impoverished communities. But we always have
    to connect. It is interlocking injustices. There is not one
    county in the United States where working at a living wage--at
    a minimum wage job 40 hours a week, that you can afford a basic
    two-bedroom apartment. In most places you have to work plus-80
    hours, plus-80 hours.
        And from a moral perspective, a Christian perspective,
    poverty, housing, immigrants' rights are the values of faith.
    They are the values. I am a pastor. I didn't want to talk like
    this. But since I am a pastor--I have been a pastor over 30
    years. I have 500 years of ministry in my family, as pastors.
    Our church has built homes for low and moderate-income people.
    We house senior citizens. We have programs for the poor. But
    pastors also must be prophets, like Jesus was, and challenge
    the system. And all the homes we built has nothing to do with
    people not getting a living wage. That is like government
    policy.
        And I just want to say it to this Committee again and to
    the people here. Slavery was a government policy. The lack of
    civil rights was a government policy. The lack of living wages
    is a government policy. The lack of housing is a government
    policy. So to say weak government is bad is ridiculous. We are
    here in the government.
        It--what the problem is, when you have a government that
    pushes for the few, and caters to Wall Street, and caters to
    the greedy, and does not care for we the people--and to suggest
    that 43.5 million people in the--I mean 43 percent of this
    country, 140 million people, if they want to--I am going to
    keep saying it like a broken record, that if they just loved
    and got charity from the church when the government created the
    poverty, then you are going to ask the church to fix the
    poverty? No.
        The church should be challenging the government, just like
    we challenged the government over slavery, just like we
    challenged the government over the lack of women's right to
    vote, just like we challenged the government over civil rights.
    We should be prophetic and challenge for a policy shift that
    could lift people. And to not do that is, at best, theological
    malpractice. At worst, it is heresy.
        Mr. Panetta. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield
    back.
        Chairman Yarmuth. The gentleman's time has expired. I now
    recognize the gentlelady from Minnesota, Ms. Omar, for five
    minutes.
        Ms. Omar. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, Congresswoman
    Barbara Lee, for your championship in championing this
    particular issue.
        I am a little frustrated, because I heard a lot about love.
    And one thing that I know is it is not because of the lack of
    love that we are not able to feed our children. It is not
    because of lack of love that we are able to house people. It is
    not the lack of love that we are unable to save people from
    dying because they don't have health care. It is not because of
    lack of love that you were able to finish college because you
    got help with child care.
        Love has nothing to do with this. And if you want to bring
    love into this, you got to bring radical love, because radical
    love means that we radically love every single person within
    our communities to make sure that we are providing for them the
    basic rights as humans. That's what love is. And that's the
    godly thing to do.
        So if we want to talk about faith, we also have to remember
    that we can't pray our problems away. You can't pray for your
    children to be fed so you are not crying because they're crying
    and they can't go to bed. You cannot pray for your medical
    bills to disappear. You cannot pray for the mold to stop
    poisoning your children in the classrooms.
        The other thing that frustrates me is people who have
    experienced poverty, who have gotten the straps for their
    bootstraps, who sit and talk about how we shouldn't do anything
    for the next person. See, as someone who knows severe poverty--
    I lived in a refugee camp on the floor, no water, nothing. And
    I hear somebody say here in the United States they are fine
    with their grandparents not having running water. And that is
    supposed to be okay? Or we hear someone say it was a choice
    made up to me to have my children and not be like the other
    black people who get to have children out of wedlock.
        We don't get to have those kind of conversations. The
    conversations we get to have is how we are responsible for
    fully funding our schools so all of our children have the
    opportunities we have as we sit in this room. We get to talk
    about the kind of opportunities we have as government to make
    sure health care is provided to everybody so that we don't have
    people dying in the United States because they can't afford
    insulin.
        The conversation we get to have is making sure that there
    are no children, no children going to sleep hungry or being
    shamed in classrooms and in lunch rooms because their families
    don't have enough money to pay for their lunch.
        The conversation we get to have about the kind of poverty
    we have in this country, is the kind of poverty that says it is
    okay for us to take photo pictures with veterans, and be okay
    with the fact that they are sleeping on the streets here in the
    United States.
        So as an immigrant, as someone who came to this country
    hearing about American exceptionalism and prosperity, I am
    appalled that we get to sit here and have conversations as
    Americans about being the most charitable country in the world,
    and not being charitable enough to house our homeless, feed our
    children, care for our veterans. What is charitable about that?
        So, I ask you. The kind of systematic barriers that exist
    in prosperity, that is the conversation we should be having.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. And----
        Ms. Omar. And so I want you guys, for the little bit of
    time that I have, to talk about the systematic barriers that
    exist in creating prosperity, and what it means for us to
    remove those so that all of us could have the prosperity that
    is guaranteed within our Constitution.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. I want----
        Chairman Yarmuth. Since the gentlelady's time is basically
    expired, why don't you address it to one person----
        Ms. Omar. Yes.
        Chairman Yarmuth.----and then let that person respond.
        Rev. Dr. Barber. I was going to yield to Savannah. But
    Savannah, I tell you what to do. I want you to hold my hand.
    Because we came here to have a real conversation. We didn't
    come here to talk this mythology and foolishness about, you
    know, I grew up in poverty and therefore I have just worked
    hard and got--that is not what we came here to talk about. We
    have a budget. If--you got your budget? Hold it up, Liz. I want
    the nation--I am going to speak to America now. We want--I want
    to see the front of it.
        Where your treasure is, that is where your heart is. We can
    talk all day long about a love, and where your treasure is,
    where your heart is. And justice requires not just praying and
    going to church, but it requires justice. Jesus said that
    people who engage in religiosity but do not care for justice,
    he called that hypocrisy. So let's talk about investment. Let's
    talk about barriers.
        Love in a democracy, we would be investing in democracy and
    equal protection under the law. That is what is in here. It
    would be investing in domestic tranquility, investing in an
    equitable economy, fair taxes, raised income. It would be
    investing in life, and health care, and full health care for
    everybody, and equal treatment.
        It would be investing in our future, investing in early
    learning. Childcare helps the K through 12 higher education,
    inclusion for all undocumented youth. HBCUs investment, and
    tribal school investment. And love would be investing in the
    planning, access to clean water and sanitation, addressing
    climate change through clean energy. Love, real love and
    justice, would be investments in peace and common defense,
    ending the culture of war, reducing military spending, ending
    militarism at home, eliminating militarism and immigration,
    eliminating militarism and policing and mass incarceration, and
    ending easy access to firearms.
        We came here with a plan, not just with partisan mythology.
    We came here with a plan to challenge both Democrats and
    Republicans. But it seems like one side we really got to
    challenge--but we are going to work on everybody, because we
    need a plan, because the 43.5 percent and 140 million people,
    their backs are against the wall, and they are dying at a rate
    of 250,000 per year.
        Ms. Omar. Thank you, Reverend Barber. We are going to get
    the radical love that Jesus preached. So, thank you.
        Chairman Yarmuth. I thank--the gentlelady's time has
    expired.
        And as we mentioned earlier in the--at the beginning of the
    hearing, your budget and plan is part of the formal record.
        Under normal circumstances, the Ranking Member and I would
    now have 10 minutes each to use as we saw fit. We are about to
    have votes called on the floor. So, the Ranking Member and I
    have just agreed to spend just a small portion of our time
    closing the hearing.
        Mr. Womack. So----
        Chairman Yarmuth. I recognize the Ranking Member.
        Mr. Womack. I thank the Chairman. It has been a long
    hearing, and we have heard a lot and we have learned a lot. I
    think the common thing that we have learned is that we have a
    poverty issue in our country. We have had a poverty issue for a
    long time. We have done a lot of things, spent a lot of money
    trying to address poverty issues.
        The challenge for the Congress, which is the, I guess, the
    final arbiter of these issues, is to figure out how much we
    have to spend, what programs are most meaningful and beneficial
    to arrive at the outcomes that can address the root causes of
    the problem, and allocate those resources accordingly, in a way
    that, with proper oversight, that we can get the very best
    return on that investment that we can.
        That is what the taxpayers of our country ask of us, is to
    make sure, as the people who hold the purse strings, to ensure
    that the money that is going out is being spent in a wise and
    productive fashion.
        There is not a person on this dais that does not want to
    see every single person in this country lifted out of poverty
    to become productive in their lives, to make really, really
    good personal decisions, to really live that American Dream.
    But there are a lot of different opinions as to exactly how we
    approach that.
        I liked what my colleague, Bill Johnson, said at the very
    beginning about the importance of the father in the household.
    And we have got too many single-parent households these days.
    We can't legislate that. But we can have it as a goal for this
    country to improve the family circumstance in such a way that
    we can help our young people get that education, make those
    decisions that break, if you will, that cycle of poverty. And
    that is what I hope to see out of this.
        Now, there have been some references made out of defense
    spending today. And as you heard in my opening remarks, I am a
    30-year veteran with a deployment under my belt in support of
    the national security of this country. And I am a strong
    advocate for the men and women who, on a voluntary basis, put
    their hand up and say they will go anywhere, any time, under
    any circumstance, and fight for something greater than
    themselves.
        It was mentioned by one gentleman on the panel today that,
    when you fly into Washington, you fly over the Pentagon, and
    then you fly over names of major defense contractors. Let me
    also remind you that you fly over Arlington National Cemetery.
    And those headstones that I see out there, and those crosses
    represent something to me. And the way that we can continue to
    honor the commitment and the sacrifice and the hardships
    suffered by well over a million people who have died in defense
    of their country, the way we honor them is to make sure that we
    protect the principles espoused in the founding of this country
    throughout the rest of history, so that we can give the rest of
    society an opportunity to pursue the American Dream that has
    been given as hope for all of us.
        So with that said, Mr. Chairman, I don't have any questions
    for the panel.
        I know we are about to head to the floor for votes, and I
    want to thank everybody for coming today and telling your
    personal stories.
        And I will yield back the balance of my time.
        Chairman Yarmuth. I thank the gentleman, and I yield myself
    time for my closing remarks.
        You know, I agree with the Ranking Member, that the over--
    without question, the goal of this government should be to lift
    as many people out of poverty as possible. It is not to support
    as many poor people as possible. That should be our objective.
    But reality is that we live in a different world.
        And I--you know, I empathize with all the stories that we
    have heard today from some of my colleagues about their
    background and how they came up in poverty. We are in a very
    different world when--from when those gentlemen were describing
    their upbringing. And it is going to get even tougher in this
    world.
        The technology revolution that we are seeing now, that we
    are going to continue to see, is going to disrupt far more
    lives than anything we have ever experienced in this country.
    And we are going to be in for a rough stretch. And it is not
    just going to be poorly-educated or lesser-educated people. It
    is going to be CPAs and radiologists and a lot of people who
    spent a lot of money getting an education, and were working for
    high wages, and their jobs are going to be drastically changed,
    as well.
        So I am very conscious of what we need to do, as a country.
    I don't have the answers, but I know what we are going to have
    to cope with. And we are going to have to make sure that
    everybody in this country is supported to the extent that they
    can be productive as possible.
        I don't think there is any greater need in this country
    right now for our long-term prospects than early childhood
    education. Because if we don't make sure that the next
    generation of Americans, that younger generation of Americans,
    has the opportunity and the resources to make--be productive
    citizens, then we are arguing over nothing now, because there
    won't be a tax base for us to argue about how to spend. We
    won't have people--when the Baby Boomers retire and pass on--
    and I am one of those--and then the next generation--if we
    don't make sure that the youngest generation and the generation
    after that are productive citizens, where is the tax base going
    to be?
        And I have said this to a lot of white people I have had
    arguments with. If we don't make sure non-white Americans make
    a lot of money and pay a lot of taxes, then white America is
    not going to retire, not going to be able to retire, because
    there won't be any resources.
        So this is not a simple issue. Just like everything else we
    deal with on the federal level, it is really complicated.
    Poverty is not an easy issue.
        The fact remains we have the greatest disparity between the
    wealthiest Americans and everybody else that we have ever had,
    well, in the last 100 or so years. And we have greater
    disparity in wealth and income in this country as most--any
    other industrialized nation.
        And I look at things like the Earned Income Tax Credit, a
    great program, has lifted a lot of people out of poverty and
    supported a lot of people. And Democrats love it, and some
    Republicans love it. But you know who loves it more than
    anybody? Corporate America. Corporate America loves it because
    it helps them. It allows them to pay lower salaries and--
    because the EITC is supporting their workers. And that is the
    same thing with Medicaid in a lot of cases, and it is the same
    thing with SNAP. These are all, to a certain extent, subsidies
    to corporate America.
        I once had a conversation--it was my first election--with a
    McDonald's franchisee, and we were arguing about minimum--
    raising the minimum wage. Then it was $5.25. And he said how--
    what a difficult imposition that would be on him, if he had to
    raise the--if we raised the minimum wage on him.
        And I said, ``You know, what would you say if I came to you
    and I said, 'You know, I have got the greatest business concept
    that ever came down the pike, and it is just absolutely
    foolproof. The only catch is that I have to have people working
    for me for nothing.' What would you say?''
        He said, ``I would say you are insane.''
        I said, ``In today's world''--that was 2006. I said, ``In
    today's world, what is the difference between $5 an hour and
    nothing? Not much.'' And here we are, 13 years later, and we
    are at $7.25.
        Now, the reality is, I understand not many people are
    making $7.25, but there are a lot of people out there making
    $9, and $10, and $9 and $10 are not living wages, either. And
    you all know that extremely well.
        So, there--there is a lot of institutionalized--there are a
    lot of institutionalized issues that we have to deal with, as a
    country. Congress can't deal with all of them. But the fact
    remains that we have an obligation. I always say government is
    the way we recognize our--we organize our responsibilities to
    each other.
        And one of those responsibilities is to understand that we
    have a capitalistic system that ends up with winners and
    losers. And the losers are not necessarily losers because they
    didn't try hard, because they weren't talented. They were
    losers because there are naturally winners and losers in
    society.
        And it is the government's obligation to make sure we do
    everything we can to make sure they have a decent standard of
    living, and then give them the support to rise out of poverty
    and become winners at all levels.
        So, with that, I would say we got a lot of work to do. The
    Poor People's Campaign has done a lot of work and has a lot of
    work to do.
        And I want to thank everybody here for focusing on a very,
    very important national issue. Thank you for your time, your
    passion and, most of all, bringing your experience to the
    Committee and this Congress.
        And with that, with no further business, the Committee is
    adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 1:28 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

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