[House Hearing, 116 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] EDUCATING OUR EDUCATORS: HOW FEDERAL POLICY CAN BETTER SUPPORT TEACHERS AND SCHOOL LEADERS ======================================================================= JOINT HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON EARLY CHILDHOOD, ELEMENTARY, AND SECONDARY EDUCATION AND THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE INVESTMENT OF THE COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, JULY 17, 2019 __________ Serial No. 116-36 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and Labor [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via the World Wide Web: www.govinfo.gov; or Committee address: https://edlabor.house.gov __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 37-330 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT, Virginia, Chairman Susan A. Davis, California Virginia Foxx, North Carolina, Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona Ranking Member Joe Courtney, Connecticut David P. Roe, Tennessee Marcia L. Fudge, Ohio Glenn Thompson, Pennsylvania Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, Tim Walberg, Michigan Northern Mariana Islands Brett Guthrie, Kentucky Frederica S. Wilson, Florida Bradley Byrne, Alabama Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin Mark Takano, California Elise M. Stefanik, New York Alma S. Adams, North Carolina Rick W. Allen, Georgia Mark DeSaulnier, California Lloyd Smucker, Pennsylvania Donald Norcross, New Jersey Jim Banks, Indiana Pramila Jayapal, Washington Mark Walker, North Carolina Joseph D. Morelle, New York James Comer, Kentucky Susan Wild, Pennsylvania Ben Cline, Virginia Josh Harder, California Russ Fulcher, Idaho Lucy McBath, Georgia Van Taylor, Texas Kim Schrier, Washington Steve Watkins, Kansas Lauren Underwood, Illinois Ron Wright, Texas Jahana Hayes, Connecticut Daniel Meuser, Pennsylvania Donna E. Shalala, Florida William R. Timmons, IV, South Andy Levin, Michigan* Carolina Ilhan Omar, Minnesota Dusty Johnson, South Dakota David J. Trone, Maryland Fred Keller, Pennsylvania Haley M. Stevens, Michigan Susie Lee, Nevada Lori Trahan, Massachusetts Joaquin Castro, Texas * Vice-Chair Veronique Pluviose, Staff Director Brandon Renz, Minority Staff Director ------ SUBCOMMITTEE EARLY CHILDHOOD, ELEMENTARY, AND SECONDARY EDUCATION GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN, Northern Mariana Islands, Chairman Kim Schrier, Washington Rick W. Allen, Georgia, Jahana Hayes, Connecticut Ranking Member Donna E. Shalala, Florida Glenn ``GT'' Thompson, Susan A. Davis, California Pennsylvania Frederica S. Wilson, Florida Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin Mark DeSaulnier, California Van Taylor, Texas Joseph D. Morelle, New York William R. Timmons, IV, South Carolina SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND WORKFORCE INVESTMENT SUSAN A. DAVIS, California, Chairwoman Joe Courtney, Connecticut Lloyd Smucker, Pennsylvania, Mark Takano, California Ranking Member Pramila Jayapal, Washington Brett Guthrie, Kentucky Josh Harder, California Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin Andy Levin, Michigan Elise Stefanik, New York Ilhan Omar, Minnesota Jim Banks, Indiana David Trone, Maryland Mark Walker, North Carolina Susie Lee, Nevada James Comer, Kentucky Lori Trahan, Massachusetts Ben Cline, Virginia Joaquin Castro, Texas Russ Fulcher, Idaho Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona Steve C. Watkins, Jr., Kansas Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, Dan Meuser, Pennsylvania Northern Mariana Islands William R. Timmons, IV, South Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon Carolina Alma S. Adams, North Carolina Donald Norcross, New Jersey C O N T E N T S ---------- Page Hearing held on July 17, 2019.................................... 1 Statement of Members: Allen, Hon. Rick W., Ranking Member, Subcommittee Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education............. 3 Prepared statement of.................................... 4 Davis, Hon. Susan A., Chairwoman, Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment......................... 4 Prepared statement of.................................... 6 Sablan, Hon. Gregorio Kilili Camacho, Chairman, Subcommittee Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education....... 1 Prepared statement of.................................... 3 Smucker, Hon. Lloyd, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment......................... 6 Prepared statement of.................................... 7 Statement of Witnesses: Brosnan, Michael, Teacher and Early Leadership Institute Coach, Bridgeport Public Schools, Milford, CT.............. 9 Prepared statement of.................................... 11 Daire, Dr. Andrew, School of Education, Virginia Commonwealth, University, Richmond, VA..................... 35 Prepared statement of.................................... 37 McManus, Ms. Tricia, Assistant Superintendent for Leadership, Professional Development, and School Transformation, Hillsaborough County Public Schools, Tampa, FL............. 14 Prepared statement of.................................... 17 White, Mr. John, State Superintendent of Education, State of Louisiana, Baton Rouge, LA................................. 26 Prepared statement of.................................... 29 Additional Submissions: Chairwoman Davis: Link: Principal Pipelines................................ 84 Chairman Sablan: Prepared statement from National Association of Secondary School Principals (NASSP).............................. 86 Article: The Freedom Teach............................... 90 Questions submitted for the record by: Scott, Hon. Robert C. ``Bobby'', a Representative in Congress from the State of Virginia Responses to questions submitted for the record by: Mr. Brosnan.............................................. 96 Dr. Daire................................................ 93 EDUCATING OUR EDUCATORS: HOW FEDERAL POLICY CAN BETTER SUPPORT TEACHERS AND SCHOOL LEADERS ---------- Wednesday, July 17, 2019 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education, Joint with Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment, Washington, D.C. ---------- The subcommittees met, pursuant to call, at 10:14 a.m., in Room 2175, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan (Chairman of the Subcommittee on Early Childhood, Elementary and Secondary Education) presiding. Present: Representatives Sablan, Davis, Courtney, Wilson, Bonamici, Takano, Adams, DeSaulnier, Norcross, Jayapal, Morelle, Harder, Schrier, Hayes, Shalala, Levin, Omar, Trone, Lee, Trahan, Castro, Allen, Smucker, Thompson, Guthrie, Grothman, Stefanik, Banks, Walker, Comer, Cline, Watkins, Meuser, and Timmons. Also Present: Representatives Scott and Foxx. Staff Present: Tylease Alli, Chief Clerk; Katie Berger, Professional Staff; Christian Haines, General Counsel; Ariel Jona, Staff Assistant; Stephanie Lalle, Deputy Communications Director; Andre Lindsay, Staff Assistant; Jaria Martin, Clerk/ Assistant to the Staff Director; Max Moore, Office Aide; Jacque Mosely, Director of Education Policy; Lakeisha Steele, Professional Staff; Loredana Valtierra, Education Policy Fellow; Banyon Vassar, Deputy Director of Information Technology; Rolie Adrienne Webb, Education Policy Fellow; Cyrus Artz, Minority Parliamentarian; Courtney Butcher, Minority Director of Member Services and Coalitions; Bridget Handy, Minority Communications Assistant; Dean Johnson, Minority Staff Assistant; Hannah Matesic, Minority Director of Operations; Carlton Norwood, Minority Press Secretary; Brandon Renz, Minority Staff Director; Alex Ricci, Minority Professional Staff Member; Chance Russell, Minority Legislative Assistant; Mandy Schaumburg, Minority Chief Counsel and Deputy Director of Education Policy; and Brad Thomas, Minority Senior Education Policy Advisor. Chairman Sablan. The Committee on Early Childhood, Elementary and Secondary Education and Higher Education and Workforce Investment will come to order. Good morning, and welcome, everyone. I note that a quorum is present. Both subcommittees are meeting today in a legislative hearing to hear testimony on educating our educators, how Federal policy can better support teachers and school leaders. So pursuant to Committee Rule 7(c), opening statements are limited to the Chair's and the Ranking Members. This allows us to hear from our witnesses sooner and provides all Members with adequate time to ask questions. So I recognize myself now for the purpose of making an opening statement. So, today, we are looking at the Federal Government's responsibility to make sure America's children have the teachers they need. We can all agree that every child in the United States from the Marianas to Maine deserve quality instructions from quality teachers. Unfortunately, for our children, we know that far too many of their most qualified teachers are leaving the profession. This departure suffers serious impact on the quality of education, especially the education of children from low-income families and especially for children of color. The Learning Policy Institute reports teacher turnover rates are 50 percent higher in Title 1 schools which serve low-income children than in non-Title 1 schools. Mathematics and science teachers turnover, in particular, is nearly 70 percent greater than in Title 1 schools. Children of color are, likewise, disproportionately impacted. Turnover rates are 70 percent higher for teachers in schools serving the largest concentrations of children of color. Furthermore, teachers of these schools often have fewer years of experience and are often significantly less well trained. So as a Nation, we really must do better. We have to understand how we can train teachers better and to understand what forces teachers to leave their profession, because our children's education is at stake. We do have some research explaining teacher turnover rates. It shows that teachers are pushed out of their profession because they are not well enough prepared to begin with because school systems do not support teachers as they should and because teachers are underpaid. Insufficient preparation and weak support systems are areas where there may be a Federal role. So in the last Congress, committee Democrats introduced the Aim Higher Act, a comprehensive reauthorization of Federal higher education policy. One goal of the Act is to strengthen programs for teachers. Specifically, the Act requires identification of those preparation programs that are not producing the teachers who do not stick with the profession and provides technical assistance to fix those problems. The Act also prepares those who will later support other teachers within their schools by including leadership development as part of any teachers training. And I am sure there is more we could do, which is why I welcome today's witnesses, all teachers themselves, for joining us today to share their perspective on these issues. My two youngest are themselves public school teachers, and I never stop listening. Sometimes I ignore listening to them. That is all they talk about when they have nothing else to say. So now I yield to the distinguished chair of the Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment hearing, Congresswoman Davis, for her opening statement. Okay. I take it back. I now yield to the Ranking Rember of the subcommittee, Mr. Allen, for his opening statements. I apologize. [The statement of Chairman Sablan follows:] Prepared Statement of Hon. Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, Chairman, Subcommittee Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education Today, we are looking at the federal government's responsibility to make sure America's children have the teachers they need. We can all agree that every child in the United States--from the Marianas to Maine--deserves quality instruction from quality teachers. Unfortunately for our children, we know that far too many of their most qualified teachers are leaving the profession. These departures have a serious impact on the quality of education, especially the education of children from low- income families, and especially for children of color. The Learning Policy Institute reports teacher turnover rates are 50 percent higher in Title I schools, which serve low-income children, than in non-Title I schools. Mathematics and science teacher turnover is nearly 70 percent greater in Title I schools. Children of color are likewise disproportionately impacted. Turnover rates are 70 percent higher for teachers in schools serving the largest concentrations of children of color. Furthermore, teachers at these schools often have fewer years of experience and are, often, significantly less prepared. As a nation, we must do better. We have to understand how we can train teachers better and to understand what forces teachers to leave their profession. Because our children's education is at stake. We do have some research explaining teacher turnover rates. It shows that teachers are pushed out of their profession because they are not well prepared, because school systems do not support teachers as they should, and because teachers are underpaid. Insufficient preparation and weak support systems are areas where there may be a federal role. That is why in the last Congress, Committee Democrats introduced the Aim Higher Act--a comprehensive reauthorization of federal higher education policy. One goal of the Act is to strengthen preparation programs for teachers. I am sure there is more we can do. Which is why I welcome today's witnesses, all educators themselves, for joining us today to share their perspective on these issues. ______ Mr. Allen. That is no problem. Where I come from, it is always ladies first, but I will do my thing here. And thank you for yielding, Mr. Chairman, and holding this hearing today. I am the son of two educators and, of course, our dinner conversations were typically about education. And I just wish that the problems we had then are the only problems we have now. It is quite a big difference, but I know firsthand how important it is for K-12 teachers and school leaders to have the tools they need to succeed. When educators are well- prepared and able to meet the growing demands of our classrooms, children are better able to learn and thrive. Unfortunately, the current system is failing to provide the K-12 education system with an adequate number of teachers equipped to meet the challenges of modern classrooms. In addition, communities around the country are facing teacher shortages, particularly in rural areas and hard-to-staff areas, such as special education, English learners, science, technology, engineering, and math and STEM subjects. Ultimately, we can only expect our students to be as successful as the teachers and school leaders who educate them. The K-12 educator pipeline needs attention and reform in our schools if our schools are going to flourish. Most importantly, I believe that the Federal Government needs to get out of the classroom, needs to allow our teachers to do what they are called to do, and that is to teach and not deal with all of this regulatory compliance requirement. Today's discussion will provide incredibly valuable insight as we work to improve the educator pipeline. I want to thank our witnesses here today and to the educators in this country who dedicate their lives to helping America's children learn and succeed. My sixth grade teacher, Ms. Ward, changed my life, and I went from a C student to an A student because of Ms. Ward. So I owe her a great debt of gratitude, as I would assume most everybody in this body had some similar experience in their time in school. And with that, I yield back. [The statement of Mr. Allen follows:] Prepared Statement of Hon. Rick W. Allen, Ranking Member, Subcommittee Early Childhood, Elementary, and Secondary Education As the son of two educators, our dinner table conversations were typically about education. So I know firsthand how important it is for K-12 teachers and school leaders to have the tools they need to succeed. When educators are well-prepared and able to meet the growing demands of our classrooms, children are better able to learn and thrive. Unfortunately, the current system is failing to provide the K-12 education system with an adequate number of educators equipped to meet the challenges of modern classrooms. In addition, communities around the country are facing teacher shortages, particularly in rural areas and hard-to staff areas such as special education, English learners, and science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) subjects. Ultimately, we can only expect our students to be as successful as the teachers and school leaders who educate them. The K-12 educator pipeline needs attention and reform if our schools are going to flourish. Most importantly, I believe the federal government needs to get out of the classroom and let teachers do what they are called to do: teach. Today's discussion will provide incredibly valuable insight as we work to improve the educator pipeline. Thank you to our witnesses here today and to the educators in this country who dedicate their lives to helping America's children learn and succeed. I yield back. ______ Chairman Sablan. Thank you very much, Mr. Allen. And so now I recognize the distinguished chairwoman of the Higher Education and Workforce Investment Subcommittee, Mrs. Davis, for the purpose of her making an opening statement. Mrs. Davis. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Ranking Member Allen, for yielding as well. I am pleased that we are having today's hearing on how to best support our educators and provide our children with high- quality classroom and school instruction. So, today, we are not only discussing the need to invest in teacher preparation, but also the need to invest in school leader preparation. In fact, studies show that effective school leadership is one of the most consistent factors behind teachers' decisions to stay or leave a school or the profession entirely. Teachers who feel unsupported by their school leaders are nearly twice as likely to leave, and at the same time, we know that effective school leadership significantly improves teacher academic performance, particularly in reading and math. So despite the clear benefits of strong school leadership for both teachers and students, school leader preparation receives little attention compared to teacher preparation, and that is why our Aim Higher Act last Congress expanded key teacher preparation grants to include proven school leader preparation programs that provide participants with graduate- level coursework, as well as ongoing support while on the job, that we know is critically important. We also know that professional training for teachers and school leaders can only go so far without support to help educators overcome the significant cost barriers through entering and staying in the profession. Today, the gap between teacher wages and the wages of other college graduates is wider than it has ever been. One recent study found that teachers with as much as 10 years of experience and who are their family's breadwinners may need Federal financial support, and this gap is particularly devastating for teachers of color who already shoulder disproportionately more student debt than their White peers. As a result, our teacher workforce lacks diversity, which research shows can hurt students' academic outcomes. For decades, Congress has recognized its responsibility to eliminate cost barriers to serving as a teacher, particularly regarding student loans, and today, qualified teachers can receive Federal student loan relief through public service loan forgiveness for teaching in low-income schools and for teaching in the special education and STEM fields. But nevertheless, despite that continued financial barriers to becoming a teacher, we just have to do more. As this committee works to reauthorize the Higher Education Act, we must consider the provisions included in the Aim Higher Act to make college more affordable and student debt easier to repay for our educators. These provisions include streamlining student loan repayment and expanding the loan forgiveness program to ensure that educators and other public servants are not burdened by debt. Each day, we rely on teachers and school administrators to shape the future of our country. So if we are to provide our children with the best education possible, we must ensure that educators do not face overbearing cost barriers and inadequate preparation that prevent them from doing what they do best: empowering our children to reach their full potential. I want to thank our witnesses here today. We look forward to your comments. We look forward to hearing your expertise and your insight into all of these issues. I now yield to the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment, Mr. Smucker, to make an opening statement. [The statement of Mrs. Davis follows:] Prepared Statement of Hon. Susan A. Davis, Chairwoman, Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment Thank you, Ranking Member Allen, for yielding. I am pleased that we are having today's hearing on how to best support our educators and provide our children with high-quality classroom and school instruction. Today, we are not only discussing the need to invest in teacher preparation, but also the need to invest in school leader preparation. In fact, studies show that effective school leadership is one of the most consistent factors behind teachers' decisions to stay or leave a school, or the profession entirely. Teachers who feel unsupported by their school leaders are nearly twice as likely to leave. At the same time, we know that effective school leadership significantly improves students' academic performance, particularly in reading and math. Despite the clear benefits of strong school leadership for both teachers and students, school leader preparation receives little attention compared to teacher preparation. That is why our Aim Higher Act last Congress expanded key teacher preparation grants to include proven school leader preparation programs that provide participants with graduate-level coursework as well as ongoing supports while on the job. But we also know that professional training for teachers and school leaders can only go so far without support to help educators overcome the significant cost barriers to entering and staying in the profession. Today, the gap between teacher wages and the wages of other college graduates is wider than it's ever been. One recent study found that teachers with as much as 10 years of experience and who are their family's breadwinners may need federal financial support. This gap is particularly devastating for teachers of color, who already shoulder disproportionally more student debt than their white peers. As a result, our teacher workforce lacks diversity, which research shows can hurt students' academic outcomes. For decades, Congress has recognized its responsibility to eliminate cost barriers to serving as a teacher, particularly regarding student loans. Today, qualified teachers can receive federal student loan relief through Public Service Loan Forgiveness, for teaching in low-income schools, and for teaching in the special education and STEM fields. Nonetheless, continued financial barriers to becoming a teacher demonstrate that Congress must do more. As this Committee works to reauthorize the Higher Education Act, we must consider the provisions included in the Aim Higher Act to make college more affordable, and student debt easier to repay, for our educators. These provisions include streamlining student loan repayment and expanding the PSLF program to ensure that educators and other public servants are not burdened by debt. Each day, we rely on teachers and school administrators to shape the future of our country. If we are to provide our children with the best education possible, we must ensure that educators do not face overbearing cost barriers and inadequate preparation that prevent them from doing what they do best: empowering our children to reach their full potential. Thank you, again, to our witnesses for joining us today. I now yield to the Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment, Mr. Smucker, to make an opening statement. ______ Mr. Smucker. Thank you for yielding. As the Ranking Member from Georgia, Mr. Allen, noted that educator pipeline is critical to the success of our Nation's teachers, school leaders, and most importantly, to our students. Ensuring that America's educators are prepared when they enter their classrooms so that their students can hit the books is one of the most important ways to guarantee a successful school system in the United States. Title 2 of the Higher Education Act funds a program that seeks to do just that. It awards competitive grants for teacher and school leader preparation, but it falls short of providing school systems an adequate pipeline of talent. Title 2 provides funding to a limited number of institutions in exchange for a significant reporting burden that offers limited insight into program effectiveness. Republicans have proposed eliminating Title 2 because of its ineffectiveness, but if Title 2 continues as part of a reformed HEA, we must ensure that it supports State efforts to reform their teacher and school leader preparation systems. States must lead the way in reforming the preparation system that most of us agree is currently failing too many teachers and students. The success of our preparation programs is directly tied to our students' success. If we truly want America's teachers and students to prosper, we need to work together. Today's hearing touches on the overall health of the education system in the United States from K-12 through higher education. So I look forward to hearing from today's witnesses about how we can better prepare our schoolteachers and leaders so American students are successful at every stage of education. Thank you. I yield back. [The statement of Mr. Smucker follows:] Prepared Statement of Hon. Lloyd Smucker, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Higher Education and Workforce Investment As my colleague from Georgia, Mr. Allen not ed, the educator pipeline is critical to the success of our nation's teachers, school leaders, and most importantly, students. Ensuring America's educators are prepared when they hit the classrooms so their students can hit the books is one of the most important ways to guarantee a successful school system in the United States. Title II of the Higher Education Act (HEA) funds a program that seeks to do just that. It awards competitive grants for teacher and school leader preparation, but it falls short of providing school systems an adequate pipeline of talent. Title II provides funding to a limited number of institutions in exchange for a significant reporting burden that offers limited insight into program effectiveness. Republicans have proposed eliminating Title II because of its ineffectiveness. But if Title II continues as part of a reformed HEA, we must ensure that it supports state efforts to reform their teacher and school leader preparation systems. States must lead the way in reforming the preparation system that most of us agree is currently failing too many teachers and students. The success of our preparation programs is directly tied to our student students' success. If we truly want America's teachers and students to prosper, we need to work together. Today's hearing touches on the overall health of the education ion system in the United States - from K-12 through higher education. So I look forward to hearing from today's witnesses about how we can better prepare our school teachers and leaders so America's students are successful at every stage of education. ______ Chairman Sablan. Thank you very much, Mr. Smucker. And without objection, all other Members who wish to insert written statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the Committee Clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5 p.m. on July 31, 2019. I will now introduce our witnesses. Michael Brosnan is the early leadership institute coach at Bridgeport Public Schools in Connecticut. He attended a traditional education preparation program at Fairfield University in Connecticut, and last taught high school history at Bridgeport Public Schools his entire teaching career of 14 years. Having served as a cooperating teacher to student teachers, mentor for two induction programs over his tenure, and peer observer for beginning teachers in 2017, he became the learning and development coordinator for all teachers from years zero to four. He partners with local universities to secure placement for student teaching and seats some two local university advisory councils. Michael coordinates and delivers professional development for all first-year teachers to Bridgeport in partnership with the Connecticut Education Association. He is a district facilitator for the TEAM induction program that is nationally recognized as an excellent program for beginning teachers. Welcome, Mr. Brosnan. Next, Ms. Tricia McManus--I got that right--is the assistant superintendent of leadership, professional development and school transformation at Hillsborough County Public Schools in Tampa, Florida. Ms. McManus supports the professional learning of leaders, teachers, and instructional support staff, and oversees improvement efforts of the district's lowest performing schools. She received her bachelor's and master's degree from the University of South Florida. For 17 years, she served as a teacher, assistant principal, and principal in Hillsborough County Public Schools. For 6 of those years, she served as a turnaround principal in two high- needs elementary schools where she significantly advanced student outcomes and raised school grades, resulting in recognition from the Florida Department of Education. For 8 years, she served as executive director of leadership development for Hillsborough County Public Schools, and in this role, she provided training and support for school and district leaders and developed and oversaw the Hillsborough Principal Pipeline, a comprehensive talent management system for recruiting, selecting, hiring, developing, and evaluating schoolteachers. Welcome, Ms. McManus. Mr. John White was named Louisiana's State Superintendent of Education in January of 2012. Prior to being named State Superintendent, Mr. White served as superintendent of the Louisiana Recovery School District, overseeing the Nation's first system of policy, a publicly funded charter and nonpublic schools in New Orleans, and launching the Baton Rouge Achievement Zone to replicate successes in New Orleans. Prior to moving to Louisiana, Mr. White worked in New York City as deputy chancellor under Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Chancellor Joel Klein. He previously served as executive director of Teach for America Chicago and Teach for America New Jersey. He began his career as an English teacher in Jersey City, New Jersey. Mr. White received a B.A. in English, with distinction, from the University of Virginia, and a master's in public administration from New York University. Welcome, Mr. White. And finally, Dr. Andrew Daire, has been the dean of the Virginia Commonwealth University School of Education since in 2016, and came to VCU from the University of Houston where he served as the College of Education's associate dean for research for nearly 2 years. His resume includes more than 25 years of experience in higher education, 13 of which came at the University of Central Florida, where he cofounded the university's Marriage and Family Research Institute, among other accomplishments. Combining an academic and clinical background in counseling and psychology with expertise in research, Dr. Daire's style of transformative leadership emphasizes personal and professional development and for motivating faculty, staff, and students towards excellence, innovation, and impact in their work every day. So we appreciate all the witnesses for being here today, and look forward to your testimony. Let me remind the witnesses that we have read your written statements and they will appear in full in the hearing record. Pursuant to Rule 7(d) and committee practice, each of you is asked to limit your oral presentation to a five-minute summary of your written statement. Let me remind you, all of you, that pursuant to Title 18 of the United States Code, Section 1001, it is illegal to knowingly and willfully falsify any statement, representation, writing, document, or material fact presented to Congress or otherwise conceal or cover up a material fact. Before you begin your testimony, please remember to press the button on the microphone in front of you so that it will turn on and the Members can hear you. As you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn green. After four minutes, the light will turn yellow to signal that you have one minute remaining. When the light turns red, your five minutes have expired, and we ask that you please wrap up. We will let the entire panel make their presentation before we move to Member questions. When answering a question, please remember to, once again, turn your microphone on. I will now recognize Mr. Brosnan. STATEMENT OF MICHAEL BROSNAN, TEACHER AND EARLY LEADERSHIP INSTITUTE COACH, BRIDGEPORT PUBLIC SCHOOLS, MILFORD, CT Mr. Brosnan. Good morning, Committee Chairs Sablan and Davis, Ranking Members Smucker and Allen, and committee Members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today regarding challenges facing the teaching profession. While there is certainly room for growth in many areas, the recruitment and retention of a high-quality teaching force is an excellent place to start. My name is Michael Brosnan, and I have been teaching in Bridgeport Connecticut's public schools for the past 16 years. I taught history at Warren Harding for 14, and for most recently the past 2 years, I have been responsible for supporting new educators across the city. I coordinate partnerships with educator preparation programs and place student teachers, coordinate and deliver over 25 hours of professional development for all first-year teachers, observe and support beginning teachers as their peer, and facilitate the State teacher induction program. Essentially, my main goal is to not have a job in a few years. I am hoping that our efforts are so successful that we will be able to retain most, if not all, of our new educators. Bridgeport is the largest district in Connecticut, serving more than 23,000 students and employing slightly more than 1,500 educators. Because this former industrial city has seen very difficult times, the number of students qualifying for free and reduced lunch is so high that the meal program is fully subsidized throughout the district for all students. Bridgeport schools are also among the State's most diverse. In fact, the school where I taught most recently, at Warren Harding High School, over 95 percent of our students are students of color and represent more than 100 nations. Our city is ripe for reinvention and culturally rich, but the fact is we are plagued by perpetual underfunding, and that means we face many obstacles. Recruiting teachers and retaining them is one of them. Effectively retaining teachers will significantly close our shortage problem. Bridgeport currently has an annual attrition rate of 10 to 12 percent, and many of those who leave the profession are educators with under 5 years in the district. The hope is that through expanded professional development specifically geared toward teachers' needs, additional peer supports, and an innovative approach to mentorship, we will be able to significantly reduce that attrition rate. Recruitment of new educators is also a challenge for our district. Despite being a large urban district, the surrounding towns' salaries far surpass ours, and realistically, our working conditions are far more challenging. While Bridgeport Public Schools does have the highest number of teachers of color in Connecticut, the faculty is still far from a mirror image of our students. It is important for our students of color to be able to see themselves in their teachers. In addition, there are certainly barriers for entering the profession, and one of these is obviously the cost of higher education. In most States, including Connecticut, teachers are required to have multiple degrees in order to continue practicing; however, there is a large gap between the amount degrees cost and the salaries earned. To that end, it is vital that we invest in perspective educators by protecting Federal loan programs like the Public Loan Service Forgiveness Program, the Teacher Loan Forgiveness Program, and TEACH Grants. Despite some recent progress in recruitment and retention, there are systemic challenges that certainly go beyond my purview, and I thank you for seriously considering ways to improve our educational system and the lives of our educators. Certainly, there is much work to be done, and I appreciate your time this morning and your work on these items. Thank you. [The statement of Mr. Brosnan follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Sablan. Thank you very much, Mr. Brosnan. Wow, you saved us a lot of time. So, Ms. McManus, you have five minutes, please. STATEMENT OF TRICIA MCMANUS, ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT FOR LEADERSHIP, PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT, AND SCHOOL TRANSFORMATION, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS, TAMPA, FL Ms. McManus. Good morning, Chairman Sablan, Chairwoman Davis, Ranking Members Allen and Smucker, and Members of the committee. My name is Tricia McManus, and I am the assistant superintendent for Leadership, Professional Development, and School Transformation in Hillsborough County Public Schools. In this role, I oversee our Principal Pipeline, professional development for schoolteachers and leaders, and 50 of our schools who have historically struggled with performance. I am truly grateful for the opportunity to testify about the importance of preservice training and ongoing support in development of school leaders. The success of our schools and the students entrusted upon us greatly depend on the effectiveness of the adults that have chosen this noble profession of education. I come before you today as an educator with 28 years of experience with one goal in mind throughout my career: to make the lives of our students better and to strengthen access and opportunities for students who have been underserved in order to close achievement gaps and give every student the future they so greatly deserve. A strong educational experience for each student requires system and school change that is driven by equity and the belief that we must differentiate resources and supports to level the playing field if we are going to provide every student a chance at a better tomorrow. It means that equal opportunity for high-quality, on-grade level, and rigorous coursework and instruction exists for every student regardless of race and ZIP Code. It means that exposure to electives and extracurricular activities that promote positive social, emotional, mental, and physical health and can lead to future college and career choices are available to every student, and it means that facilities that house every one of our students are equipped with updated technologies and are safe and inviting places to learn. It means that racial and other biases and disparities are addressed and eliminated and that all students have a voice. None of this can be achieved absent great leadership. Research has shown over and over again that student achievement doesn't improve in our schools without an effective school principal. Strong leadership allows teachers to flourish, which leads to improved student outcomes. These are the leaders we are working hard to develop, support, and retain. Hillsborough County Public Schools is the eighth largest district in the country. We serve nearly 218,000 students in more than 300 schools. A majority of our students are students of color and qualify for free and reduced lunch. Seven years ago, Hillsborough partnered with the Wallace Foundation to study whether student outcomes could be positively impacted if we built the comprehensive principal pipeline that ensured the placement of strong principals into school leader vacancies. After implementation in our district and five others, a RAND report found that principal pipelines do work. The study showed that schools with prepared and supported principals, via a principal pipeline, markedly outperformed similar schools in comparison districts in both reading and math. Before the pipeline, Hillsborough had a preservice program that was not grounded in strong leader standards, which resulted in principals not ready to lead in high-need schools. In tackling this and other issues, we developed a system that addressed four key components: leader standards, preservice training, which included recruitment and selection processes, selective hiring, and on-the-job evaluation and support. We identified five standards that make an effective school leader: achievement and results focused, instructional expertise, strong people management and development skills, the ability to build relationships and positive school culture, and strategic change management with problem-solving targeted at the root of an issue. From here we designed two preservice programs and two on- the-job support programs grounded in the five leader standards. All of the leadership development programs have been extremely impactful for AP and principal readiness, an early success in the role. We work closely with five local universities who shifted their coursework to allow with our standards. Our Preparing New Principals program takes place over 2 years, and coursework and on-the-job learning experiences teach our aspiring leaders how to lead from an equity-focused place and in a culturally responsive manner, challenging implicit bias, established and restorative school environments, leading a school equity audit, and having hard conversations, among many other things. Our principals also participate in a 2-year induction program with monthly cohort sessions that build upon the learning from the PNP program and allow them to share problems of practice and solve them together. Every new principal is assigned a full-released, high-performing principal as an induction coach who provides ongoing-- onboarding and transition coaching. The role of school principal is complex, and the expectations set upon them require that they are developed prior to the job, while on the job, and throughout their time in the role. Principals are the ones that set the right conditions for staff and students to be successful, and we must ensure they have the tools needed to accomplish this heavy lift. This is why it is critical that Federal policy support the development of school principals the same way it does for classroom teachers. The magic happens in our schools when leaders and teachers work together in support of our students. The results have been positive in HCPS. New leaders have shown commitment to equity by closing graduation rate gaps, decreasing student of color discipline referrals and suspensions, and increasing the number of support programs available to students. We must make school leadership a priority as we think about ways to improve schools across the country. We are a Nation with vast resources, and we should prioritize funding to States and districts to support the preparation, development, and ongoing support of leaders who have been given the charge to create brighter outcomes for students they serve. The Higher Education Act should reflect what practitioners already know to be true: Effective school leadership is one of the most important levers to ensure an equitable education for all students. Thank you. [The statement of Ms. McManus follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Sablan. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. McManus. I now recognize Mr. White for five minutes, please. STATEMENT OF JOHN WHITE, STATE SUPERINTENDENT OF EDUCATION, STATE OF LOUISIANA, BATON ROUGE, LA Mr. White. Respective Chairmen, Ranking Members, and Members, I thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today about the Higher Education Act. I have been blessed to serve as State superintendent of education for Louisiana for nearly the last 8 years. Our State has implemented its plan for improvement called Louisiana Believes, in partnership with the Federal Government, and we have utilized the tools that Congress has given our State to develop a plan by and for our State. Among those tools is Title II of the Higher Education Act, the goals of which are laudable, but the effect of which is not, in its current iteration, profound at improving educator preparation programs. While our national conversation focuses frequently on whether today's teachers are effective, we have come to think that if a teacher is ineffective after four years of preparation in a college of education funded by Federal and State tax dollars, it should not be shame on him, it should be shame on us. We owe it to teachers to prepare them in a professional manner and to declare them effective before they take a full-time job in the classroom. Research shows that aspiring teachers who prepare for the job alongside mentors with proven track records of success demonstrate classroom performance akin to teachers with 2 additional years of classroom experience. With high-quality preparation, we can end the tragic phenomenon of the hapless first-year teacher. However, research also shows us that there is wide variation in the quality and effectiveness of educator preparation programs. In 2014, Louisiana surveyed its teachers in order to gather feedback on teacher preparation experiences. More than 6,000 responded, overwhelmingly saying that they were not fully prepared to teach in their first years in the classroom and that they wished they had more time to practice actually teaching under the tutelage of a mentor educator. We soon, thereafter, launched Believe and Prepare, providing the State's most innovative school systems and colleges of education with grants and with support to develop residency models in which aspiring teachers gain a full year of practice as college seniors, under the supervision of a certified mentor educator. Believe and Prepare began with just seven school systems and seven preparation providers. In 2017, after years of hard work, however, our State Board of Elementary and Secondary Education codified the Believe and Prepare model into State regulation, requiring all aspiring teachers in Louisiana to experience a full-year residency under a State certified mentor. Revisions to Title II of the Higher Education Act could further support models like Believe and Prepare, enabling States to use work study and teacher quality partnership grants to support comprehensive visions for improving educator preparation. Alternative certification provided by universities and others must be part of the discussion as well. While there are some outstanding alternative certification programs, some still provide minimal practice and minimal mentoring during the transition to the classroom. Eight rural school systems in Louisiana are currently piloting cost-effective models of year- long mentorship for alternative certification candidates. In the first year of the pilot, the amount of time alternative certifications candidates spent with mentors radically increased. On average, these candidates are spending one period per day every day during the entire school year with their mentor, a practice we hope will soon be expanded statewide. Again, teacher quality partnership grants would have been a beneficial funding source, but the program has been tailored to small and narrow partnerships rather than to statewide improvement efforts. Finally, the complement to developing and supporting better educator preparation programs is defining what programs must achieve in the first place and identifying both positive performance and evidence challenges. In 2016, Louisiana developed an accountability system for both traditional and alternative preparation programs. Our system identifies programs, strengths, and weaknesses in three factors: an onsite review, the percentage of candidates who are placed in high-need settings and subject areas, and the learning outcomes of students taught by program alumni. When combined, these measures create a summative rating for all programs in the State. Revisions to Title II of the Higher Education Act could simplify the complex data reporting requirements, focusing States on the limited set of measures that set shine light on States' true effectiveness. Fortunately, other States are also making important steps forward on these issues, frequently supported by the Council of Chief State School Officers, Chiefs for Change, and Deans for Impact. The Higher Education Act can best support such plans by requiring clear reporting of the facts and by funding plans for systemwide improvement. I appreciate greatly the chance to share Louisiana's story and look forward to today's discussion. [The statement of Mr. White follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Sablan. Thank you very much, Mr. White. And now, Mr. Daire, you have five minutes, please. Thank you. STATEMENT OF DR. ANDREW DAIRE, DEAN, SCHOOL OF EDUCATION, VIRGINIA COMMONWEALTH UNIVERSITY, RICHMOND, VA Mr. Daire. Chairman Sablan, Chairwoman Davis, Ranking Member Allen, Ranking Member Smucker, and Members of the committee, good morning. I am proud to be dean of Virginia Commonwealth University School of Education. VCU is an urban research community-engaged university in Richmond. Based on the recent U.S. News and World report ranking, our school of education is our country's 20th best graduate school of education, 11th best public graduate school of education, and third best for online programs. We are home to both the traditional teacher prep program and an innovative residency program, which together graduates about 250 teaching and school counseling candidates each year. We are constantly thinking about how we can do more to prepare teachers for high-quality and hard-to-staff schools in our community and across the country. Dr. Martin Haberman said: Completing a traditional program of teacher education as preparation for working in urban high-need schools is like preparing to swim the English Channel by doing laps in the university pool. Not everyone wants the challenge of swimming the English Channel and not every high-need school is the English Channel, but we must do our best to find and prepare those who are up to the challenge. It is imperative that programs better prepare teachers to meet the needs of our increasingly diverse K-12 student population. We know that the most effective and successful teachers understand their students' broader cultural context and approach teaching in a student-centered way. Woven throughout our programs are strategies to address the needs of more racially, ethnically, linguistically, and economically diverse student populations. Attention to these items is critical to improving student achievement and teacher retention. To further improved teacher preparation, I offer the following recommendations. First, we need to provide earlier and extended opportunities for in-classroom experience which often comes too late. VCU's Richmond Teacher Residency program, supported by the Teacher Quality Partnership program, addresses this problem. RTR's intensive yearlong experience places teaching candidates in high-need schools under the mentorship of a master teacher. RTR has had positive impacts on teacher retention, student performance, and diversification of the teaching workforce. Additionally, we have successfully leveraged our TQP award into additional funding commitments from the State legislature, local school districts, and corporate philanthropic entities to ensure sustainability after our TQP award ends. To provide early classroom exposure, VCU has also launched Substitute Teaching the VCU Way, which recruits and trains students across campus to substitute teach in high-need school districts. Second, we must prepare teachers for reality. The intersection of poverty, economic immobility, and insecurity in housing, food and safety have a real impact on the academic success of underrepresented minority and generationally poor students. Our teachers must understand these factors. Third, we must focus on teacher retention as well as recruitment and preparation. America's public schools are hemorrhaging teachers. Hardest hit are those serving low income and minority students forcing schools to hire unprepared provisionally licensed teachers and spend millions of dollars each year that they can't afford on recruitment and retention. This has a severe impact on student achievement. We are addressing this by providing 2 years of professional development and induction support for our graduates teaching in Title I schools, and we are designing a residency program for principals in high-need schools. Fourth, we must expand pathways to teaching. This is key to addressing teacher shortages. One pathway at VCU is RTR. Another is the VCU Pathways to Teaching career switcher program which equips and supports second career professionals for the transition to teach in high-need schools. We are also excited to offer five new undergraduate degrees in teaching this fall. The research is clear: The quality of teachers in our schools is the most important school-based factor in student achievement. As you consider improvements to teacher preparation programs, immediate innovation and action is required to address the challenges in high-needs and low-performing schools. The challenges faced by many students in schools are not average and will not be met with average efforts. As the late John Stanford said, the victory is in the classroom. We must prepare teachers to meet the needs of all students. Thank you for your time, and I look forward to answering your questions. [The statement of Mr. Daire follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chairman Sablan. Thank you very much, Dr. Daire. Under Committee Rule 8(a), we will now question witnesses under the five-minute rule. As Chair, I will go first, and then we alternate, we yield to the Members on the other side of this aisle. So I now recognize myself for five minutes. Dr. Daire, research suggests that well-designed and well- implemented teacher residency models can create long-term benefits for districts, for schools, and most importantly, for the students they serve. So funding under the Teacher Quality Partnership grant program under Title II of the Higher Education Act can be used to support residency models; however, the Federal Government only invests around $40 million in the sole Federal program that supports the preparation of our Nation's teachers. Can you speak to the importance of increasing Federal investments in high-quality teacher residency programs? Mr. Daire. Thank you, Chairman Sablan. The teacher residency programs we have found to be quite effective in preparing our educators. Our current cohort is, I believe, at about 42 percent underrepresented minority, which is more than double what we see in our traditional programs. When TQP was originally funded, I believe it was at $300 million, and that funding has decreased. And I think it is a very strong investment in our teacher preparation because models--we are learning models and best practices from those programs that we are actually implementing in our traditional preparation programs, so I do believe that it has been a strong investment for us. And when I say us, meaning the surrounding communities in Richmond that are benefiting from the high- quality teachers that we are preparing. Chairman Sablan. Thank you. Thank you, Doctor. Ms. McManus, what would it mean to school districts if Congress expanded Title II A funding to include school leader preparation? Ms. McManus. Title II is the funding source that is used in many districts to fund current leader and teacher preparation, and so to expand it would be more opportunities for the programs that you have heard across the group today, from residencies to preservice training programs, to on-the-job support through coaching and mentoring. Title II is that funding source we look to for that, and so by expanding it, we would be able to offer more opportunities so that our leaders and teachers are more prepared and have the supports they need once on the job. Thank you. Chairman Sablan. Thank you. I come from a district where we have a community college, but the only two 4-year degrees they offer are in business and--first one is teacher--in education. And so many of our students, many who are nontraditional, get their 4-year degrees either at home or here in the mainland. And then to continue to develop professional development, they now attend online courses. I just had a nephew who actually received his doctorate from--I think it is USC or UCLA, but he had to move for three summers in a row, actually had to go to campus and take courses there, do teacher residency or whatever, but it took 3 years to do that, and finally, he just got his doctorate in education. So, yeah, these programs are important, including to my district in the Northern Marianas. And now choose to recognize the Ranking Member of the full committee, once she gets there--okay, she is there now. Dr. Foxx. Ms. Foxx. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that. I want to thank the panelists for being here today. Mr. White, I don't think I have ever talked--pardon me. I have my two teachers in Congress here again today, Mr. Chairman. They are teachers in the Fifth District, and if they could stand up. So they have a great deal of interest in this hearing today. Thank you. Mr. White, I don't think I have ever talked to a teacher who said that he or she was reasonably prepared to enter a classroom at the end of their preparation program. Most of the testimony heard today is about how existing preparation is insufficient. I am sure part of the challenge is that teaching is hard, and preparing someone to face a classroom with students for the first time is really hard. However, I have a basic and blunt question: Why do you think so much of the preparation that perspective teachers and school leaders receive is so poor? Mr. White. Well, I think that the answer that you have gotten when you have asked teachers were they fully prepared and they have said no is because so much of our experience in being prepared to be a teacher does not involve teaching. And when I talk to the teachers who are finishing their full year as residents under the tutelage of a mentor educator as full- time faculty and they are about to enter the profession on a full-time basis on their own, they tell me virtually universally that they feel prepared to do what they are about to do because they have already done it. We have a circumstance that is affecting, in particular, low-income kids and kids in rural environments, where we routinely place first-year teachers in front of them with no legitimate prior experience as teachers, and that needs to stop. Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much. Mr. White, this will relate to my first question, but like many things in education, governance of the teacher and school leader pipeline can be confusing. Just on this panel, we have a representative from a college of education, two school district representatives, and you from a State agency. Now, I know there are several other actors not represented here. Could you explain which entities are involved in the governance structure in Louisiana and their respective roles? And then to the extent you are familiar with other States, could you explain how these governance structures vary across States? Mr. White. Well, the State legislatures are where it starts, of course, in governor's offices who then create rules for State boards of education, who then create rules for both school boards and for institutions of higher education. Those rules at the same time are complemented by boards of regents or whatever the name of a structure of the commission of higher education is. And then you have both university systems. Within them, you have specific universities; within them, you have specific colleges, and within the colleges you have specific departments. And out of all of that, there is an attempt to make for a high-quality education experience for somebody in whose hands will be trusting 20, 30 young lives next year. The governance is where much of the problem starts. And I hate to say this, but I believe that the rendition I just gave is the simple version. In other States, some of those responsibilities are divided in two or three, making it even more complicated and the likelihood of a high-quality product being the culmination even less likely. Ms. Foxx. Well, I think your description is very instructive for us to see how complicated it is, and I appreciated in your remarks, you are talking about accountability. I think that is where our big problem lies. And I appreciated again, your comments about changing the structure of Title II. I think what is lacking, particularly in this very complicated governance structure, is the avoidance of accountability. And I think until we can get some clear accountability measures out there, and I--honestly, this is what I talk about almost all the time. If we are going to spend hard working taxpayer dollars well, there needs to be accountability. Now, I had the great privilege of teaching for 15 years at Appalachian State University. I took a master of arts in college teaching and I did do a practicum in teaching, but I, frankly, got almost no preparation for teaching in that classroom, practically none, except the fact that I had sat through 7 years' worth of taking courses and was expected sort of to simply to do the same thing. So it is a real hit or miss issue. But thank you all again for being here today. I appreciate your testimony. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Sablan. Thank you, Dr. Foxx. Mr. Courtney, questions for five minutes. Mr. Courtney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and to Chairwoman Davis, for holding this hearing, and the Ranking Members, and all the witnesses for being here today. I would like to focus on an issue that we are going to have before us when we do higher education reauthorization and, Mr. Brosnan, you kind of referred to it very directly in your testimony when you said that one of the biggest disincentives is, quote, the large gap between the amount degrees cost and the salaries earned. Twelve years ago, this committee actually reported and enacted the College Cost Reduction Act, which created the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, which, again, very intentionally was focused in terms of trying to help teachers, as a public service occupation, to be able to at least get the overhang of student loan debt discharged after 10 years of faithful payments. The commencement of discharge was supposed to have started smoothly, hopefully, back in 2017 and 2018 and 2019. Last week, there was a lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Washington against the Department of Education. The statistics cited in the complaint are stunning. Out of the 75,000 applications for discharge, so far, the DOE has only processed and discharged about 500 some odd loans. That is less than 1 percent of the applications. And the lawsuit obviously is focused on the fact that the loan servicers who, again, are hardly ever held accountable in terms of just the way they handle these loans, are just not living up to the requirements of the law. I would note that in 2018, on a bipartisan basis, we passed a measure in the omnibus, the temporary Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, which, again, set up a system where people who were making payments for one version of a loan versus a direct student loan would get credit for those payments, because that was one of the obstacles for discharges going through. Again, as the complaint laid out last Thursday, the Department is still, even with that additional direction from Congress and resources, not following through on the intent of the law. So I would like to just sort of follow up again on the point that Chairwoman Davis made that, you know, streamlining and making the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program actually functional should be one of the focuses of HEA reauthorization. Mr. Brosnan, are you hearing from some of your colleagues about difficulties that they are having, and also whether or not that was really one of the sort of lights at the end of the tunnel for people who are taking on teaching that they could actually make it an affordable occupation? Mr. Brosnan. Thank you, Representative Courtney. I certainly agree with the Teacher Loan Forgiveness Program. I think you have heard from all of my esteemed colleagues on the panel here that bringing in high-quality teachers is a struggle across our entire country. I think that the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program or Teacher Loan Forgiveness Program that did exist or kind of exists now is certainly a--it is certainly a benefit for folks who are interested in teaching. I think the larger population at least in--of course, all State rules are a little bit different, but I think in Connecticut, folks can teach with a bachelor's degree and appropriate training, but they can't advance to the next level's certification effectively staying in their profession without a master's degree. Knowing that there is a loan forgiveness program, I think it adds an appeal to continuing in the profession and securing an appropriate master's degree. I can speak from that from personal experience. I began teaching for the first 5 years on a bachelor's degree, and it turns out I really liked teaching, so I figured I better go get a master's and there was a loan forgiveness program that certainly helped offset some of that cost. Anecdotally, just based on my role working with our newer faculty, I have actually received inquiries from three of my colleagues whose loan application was denied. I am not sure of the circumstance or the reason, but at least as an anecdote, I have received those three. Mr. Courtney. You are talking about loan discharge applications? Mr. Brosnan. I am sorry. Yes. That is right. Mr. Courtney. And, again, certainly I am sure I am not the only Member that is getting those calls right now. One from Coventry, Connecticut, a teacher took almost a dozen tries through the system before, and it was only because they just were obsessed with making sure they weren't going to get--take no for an answer from the Department. And, again, just in terms of retention, particularly in the area of STEM, I mean, people have lots of other choices out there, and if you have got to pay debt payments, you know, every month, I mean, the fact of the matter is, if you have got a math degree or an engineering background, you have got much more options right now in the economy. Would you agree that--again, you are seeing that temptation because of costs, you know, draining the ranks? Mr. Brosnan. Absolutely. Without a doubt, I think nationwide our highest shortage areas are in the maths and the sciences and, in some cases, the engineering programs. And the salaries for a public schoolteacher are not comparable whatsoever to that of the private workforce with holding those degrees. Chairman Sablan. Mr. Brosnan, I am sorry, I am going to have to interrupt at this time. And I would now like to--five minutes of questioning to Mr. Allen, the Ranking Member on this-- Mr. Allen. Thank you, Chairman. And thank you all for being here this morning. And, you know, I have had experience, like I said, growing up in the public education arena, both parents involved. And then I have also had some experiences as a Member of Congress, one, the school system--in an inner city school system that went to three elementary schools: one went STEM, one went art, one went leadership. And these young people can recite Stephen Covey's principles, and I talked to the teachers there and the teachers are very excited about what they are doing. They are making a difference. And we have got another school that is a faith-based school, private, and basically, the folks going to this school are inner city kids who are declared losers in the other public school system, and so their parents have no choice but to send these kids. And thank goodness we had this school. I talked to those teachers, and I have never seen teachers so excited about what they are doing and the difference they are making. And then I talked to certain other public schoolteachers, and they had to be so careful. I mean, like, if they have a child that is having issues or whatever and they can't even express their value system because they are afraid of the legal implications. So we need to get to the bottom of this, because I know obviously compensation has something to do with it, but have you really done some surveys to get at the real reason that, you know, we are not--that public schoolteachers really don't feel like that they are able to make a difference out there? Mr. White? Mr. White. Well, we do surveys every year of all teachers who leave their jobs. And without question, while I completely agree with Mr. Brosnan's points about the finances of it, having lived it myself, it is the teachers whose experience in the classroom and the supportive environment and the team relationships that they have create the greatest struggles for them, those are the ones who are leaving or the most frequently cited reason for while they are leaving, which I am not laying on the doorstep of anyone in particular, school leaders least of all. It is a hard job. But it is true that where leadership is creating an environment where teachers are supported as a team, no matter how difficult the challenges students bring to the classroom, teachers are feeling persistent and resilient in the face of it; whereas, when teachers feel isolated and they don't have that climate of support, they are looking for better things. Mr. Allen. There has been a huge disconnect that I recognized once at the beginning of my service on this community between the employer and the educator, and I blame that more on the employer than I do the educator, to be honest with you. I wished I had done more as a business to help educate young people because I think the employers just expect the educators to produce great employees, and there needs to be some teamwork there. In your particular situation, have you seen those relationships evolve where, like--for example, I know that if you are in the third grade and you are not reading at the third grade level by the time you finish the third grade, you probably won't graduate, and then things don't go well for those folks who don't graduate from high school. Have you seen any energy between the employers, the business groups, and educators on how to fix this problem? Mr. White. Yeah. I mean, I think there are certainly places across the country that are dealing with a couple of these issues. First, you see great public-private partnerships in districts across the country in terms of providing basic support, for example, after-school programming, out-of-school employees coming in to work with kids on reading skills, for example. And then I have also been encouraged, and your State in Georgia has been a leader on this, and employers who are providing educational experience to students who are not bound for 4-year universities to help them through apprentice programs and so on find a role that is appropriate to their level of education and to the insistence that they probably need both good jobs and further education. So I would agree with your premise, Congressman, that when employers take a systemic role, not just sending volunteers into the classroom for a nice principal for a day type thing, but really truly getting their people in to read with kids, or on the back end of it, providing substantive career-based experiences, that relationship can have an extraordinary impact. Mr. Allen. Well, we don't want to lose any young, people and somehow we have got to stimulate them, now it looks like, at a very early age to pursue this, and I think the teachers would welcome that as well. Mr. White. Yes, sir. Mrs. Davis. [Presiding.] Thank you, Mr. Allen. I am going to move to Mr. Takano. Mr. Takano. Thank you, Chairwoman Davis. Mr. Brosnan, I want to follow up on some of the things you have said in your opening statement about the importance of mentors and educational leaders in terms of shaping whether or not teachers remain in the profession and whether they can start as effective teachers. And also the high turnover of principals. I taught for 24 years, I have watched some teachers ascend very quickly into those leadership roles without even having spent more than 2 or 3 years in the classroom. I thought they were making a mistake, trying to become the principal or assistant principal so quickly. So let me just stop there and have you respond to what makes an importance of mentorship. What makes an effective mentor? Mr. Brosnan. Thank you, Congressman. I will say I am really enthused by hearing Mr. White, Ms. McManus and Dr. Daire with the programs of a longer period of practicum in the classroom prior to graduation. Once somebody enters the profession I think the importance of being paired with a seasoned mentor or a seasoned teacher is critical. It is very rare in a business environment that somebody would leave college and be asked to manage 150 people on a daily basis. And realistically for most of our high schoolteachers, that is what we are asking them to do, to interact and manage the behavior and academic performance for 150 students. Having access to a seasoned mentor certainly makes that experience more tolerable. Mr. Takano. I go along with this idea of a longer practicum. I think I made a mistake in my early years of teaching. I thought just having a degree from an Ivy League school was enough to let me go and teach, that the content that I had in my brain was going to be enough. But the problem for me was and I think for many others who were looking into going into a profession that does not pay as well as other professions the barrier to entry is if we are going to have a longer practicum, I think we have got to be able to support these people, we have got to pay them. Much like the building trades will pay an apprentice to go through such a long practicum. What do you think about the things I am saying now? Mr. Brosnan. I actually fully agree with you. I think that a longer practicum does prepare students better, college graduates better for the classroom without a doubt. And I do agree that potentially looking at a longer program could be perceived as a barrier, but at the same time the success rate in the first and second year of teaching for that professional would be significant. Mr. Takano. I realize, I am struck by the lack of partisanship on this panel, I am pleased to see that. I don't mean to be focusing on only Mr. Brosnan, but--so, this longer practicum, I look back and I think that is a good idea, that people need more practice in the classroom. They do need content area knowledge, but that actual experience--especially in low-income schools and schools that have a lot of diversity. There is just a lot of ways in which a young teacher can get tripped up in that situation. And being trained under a really good mentor or a good supervising teacher for a longer period of time I think is a big part of that solution. Ms. McMahon and Mr. White, any others, any more reactions to some of the things I brought up here in terms of how we encourage, how do we pay for this? And do you think that paying people to go through this practicum is part of the solution too. Mr. White. Thank you, Congressman. In our residents and mentors are both paid. If you are a college student in your fourth year in college, you are paid as an undergraduate to be faculty in that school. Mr. Takano. I like this term residency, because it kind of echoes what doctors go through. And I think we need to think of the kind of ways we teach teachers can be no less intensive than the way we think of teaching doctors, and training doctors. Do you have a comment about that? Mr. White. I agree. I think they are called residents for a reason and it is to draw a parallel with the medical profession. I think the trick of course comes in alternative certification models that are done expressly largely because of cost reasons. They are done to minimize costs both to the candidate and to the school system. And how we find a way knowing that those numbers of teachers are increasing? How we find a way to create a cost effective but also effective programs in those cases is hard. Mr. Takano. I hope we might as the questions go on, that the Members might ask more questions about this residency model, how it differs that we can't have alternative methods of certification, meaning skimpier, less effective training. My time is up. And I am rather frustrated because this is a very rich topic. And I hope we can get more of what--suss out more about this residency. Mrs. Davis. Thank you, Mr. Takano. Mr. Banks. Mr. Banks. Thank you, Madam Chair. This is an issue that I very much appreciate the committee is investing time to talk about. An issue that I worked on a little bit at the State House in Indiana when I served in the State legislature. As the Indiana State senator in 2013 I wrote legislation that was signed into law by then governor Mike Pence to establish a principal leadership institute at Indiana State University. Since then the Indiana Principal Leadership Institute has provided school principals with training and leadership, management, and communications skills to better manage their school and improve outcomes for teachers and students. IPLI's direct impact includes 1,900 principals, 70,000 teachers and more than 1 million students in Indiana. As you can imagine, I am very proud of that piece of legislation that I was a part of writing and seeing it passed through the State legislature in my home State. The institute has been enormously successful. With 94 percent of school superintendents reporting that the leadership capacity of their principals has increased due to them going through the course work at the IPLI. In addition, 20 of the 56 principals in the first cohort were able to increase their school level grades after just 1 year. Simply put, this institute has led to measurable and positive outcomes for principals, teachers, and students. So my question, Mr. White, would you agree that we need more State level initiatives like the IPLI to better prepare principals to leave their schools and improve student outcomes? And are you aware of other State-led initiatives like the one in my State across the country that might be--might have an effective story to tell as well? Mr. White. I am, I do believe that what you have done in Indiana is representative of the need for States to assert a view on this. A good principal in one setting should be--have essential skills that are the same as principals in other settings. And when I think about high quality models, and I would look at the National Institute for School Leadership for example which has done some fantastic work to do something to what you are describing in Louisiana, but also in Kentucky, and also in Pennsylvania and in States across the country there, founded on the best models across the world, and I am very impressed with what they have done. I would also look at the New York City Leadership Academy, which was founded under mayor Bloomberg about 15 years ago to try to centralize the training of principals in New York City and has now expanded its model, a system that is the size of some States and some States many times over to try to scale an efficient management centric model that produces high quality leaders at scale. Mr. Banks. I appreciate that. With the two minutes I have left, I am going to yield the remainder of my time to Dr. Foxx. Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Banks. I want to add that I believe it is probably at least 40 years old that North Carolina has had a principals institute or principals program established through the Institute of Government. And my understanding over the years and we might not have time to respond to this, but that what makes a great school is the principal and parental involvement. We really haven't talked much about that today, but that is my understanding. But I want to respond to the discussion we had a few minutes ago on teacher loan forgiveness and the public service loan forgiveness program. There is a lot of concern right now from Members of Congress, teachers, and other student loan borrowers that the PSLF program is not being run in good faith by the loan servicers and Secretary DeVos. It is time to set the record straight. It is Congress who sets the terms and conditions borrowers must meet to receive PSLF. If the program is not working, it is because the design was poorly done by Members of Congress. This program was designed under a Democrat administration, under a Democrat majority in the Congress. It was made unnecessarily complicated, not unlike what we have heard today about teacher preparation programs. Furthermore, the previous administration had 8 years to spread the word about PSLF requirements that borrowers and contractors must meet and they failed to do an adequate job. Additionally, Congress set the terms and conditions of the TEPSLF program which expands PSLF to borrowers in the wrong repayment plan. We remain committed to fixing the errors of previous Congresses to help all borrowers. It is time to stop blaming the administration for the inaction and incompetence of the laws that were written by the Congress. I yield back. Mrs. Davis. Thank you, Dr. Foxx, and that really is an issue, an area for us to explore, because as we know so much of this takes part in ruling making. And at the same time both administrations I think had a role in that so it has got to be fixed. It is just not working the way it is. Ms. Jayapal. Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you all so much for being here. I am grateful to all of you for recognizing the dire need not only to recruit teachers but also to retain them if we are going to provide our kids with the education that they need to succeed. And I wanted to focus specifically on the barriers to the people of color face to entering and remaining in the teaching profession. While half of public school students are non White, eight of 10 American teachers are White. And it is hurting student achievement because minority students perform better on standardized tests, have improved attendance and are suspended less frequently when they have at least one teacher of the same race. And the research shows that Black teachers are much more likely to recommended high achieving Black students for talented and gifted programs, virtually eliminating the gap in access to those programs. And I just want to take a minute to recognize my incredible colleague Jahana Hayes from Connecticut because I think she is the perfect example of what is possible if we were really able to eliminate some of the barriers that we see. So I wanted to start with you, Dr. Daire. I saw you recently participated in a task force or diversifying Virginias educator pipeline. And it revealed that one of the main factors hurt, barring people of color from entering the teaching profession is the length and cost of the teacher preparation pathway compared to salary. Could you just expand a little bit on that and suggest how Congress could make a teaching career more financially feasible for people of color? Mr. Daire. Thank you so much for that question. That task force, one of the recommendations that came out of that task force was for Virginia to change legislation, to go back to allowing undergraduate teacher preparation programs. And we are excited that has happened, June 20 the first round of programs were approved. So at VCU we are actually starting five new undergraduate degree programs, because as you indicated in your question, you know, having candidates obtain a master's degree adds an additional cost that I think further exacerbates that difference that we are seeing in salaries. So I think being able to do that in terms of us having undergraduate degree programs, which then really positions us to strengthen and bolster teacher pipeline programs where we are partnering with our local community colleges and pipelines even going from our schools to community colleges to universities. I think we also have to look at the financial aid support, the student loan support, and I think as we look at integrating more culturally responsive practices, not only does it benefit the students, I think it also benefits the school climate where you have more educators that are more culturally responsive to each other, which is one factor that has been identified in terms of attrition of under represented minority educators. Ms. Jayapal. Very important, thank you. I wonder Mr. Brosnan if you wanted to add anything to this because you, in your testimony, talked about the cost of higher education and the importance of protecting public service loan forgiveness, other things. Do you want to add anything to that? Okay. We also know student debt is a factor and there is an unprecedented and unequal level of student debt among Black graduates that makes it even harder for them to be able to afford to live on a teacher's salary as it is today. On average before they have even earned their first dollar, Black college graduates already have $7,400 more student loan debt than White graduates. Dr. Daire or Ms. McManus, I saw you responding to that, if either of you want to speak to that. Dr. Daire would you like to start? Sorry, I didn't ask the question. What can Congress do specifically to address student debt for teachers? Mr. Daire. Well, I think that looking at addressing some of the challenges that has been identified and the implementation or the servicing of the student loan forgiveness programs, I think that is going to be an important consideration. We also know that more students of color are actually going to for-profit universities, which are costing a lot more and increasing the student loan debt. And so I think that is something that we all need to look at. I think in terms of higher Ed, we need to look at more what are the standards--I shouldn't say standards, but what are the processes, and how can we be more responsive and understanding to some of the differences and challenges that we see in under represented minority students so we can increase that pipeline. Ms. Jayapal. Thank you. Ms. McManus, did you want to add anything? Ms. McManus. I am not that knowledgeable about student loan debt or loan forgiveness, but I can say that I think States and districts need to also in Federal Government look at teacher salaries in general so that they as they do need to pay back loans, if they have accrued them, they have the means to do so. Ms. Jayapal. Great. Thank you very much. I yield back. Mrs. Davis. Thank you, Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Comer. Mr. Comer. Thank you very much and let me begin by thanking you all for your service in public education. I am a big proponent of public education. My wife and I went to public schools, our kids are currently enrolled in public schools. So I think that is a very important role that government plays, especially State government is providing the funding for public education. As I talked to a lot of teachers in my congressional district in southern Kentucky, the big issue--one of the many issues they have is obviously teacher shortage, one of things that we are discussing today. And I wanted to ask Mr. White when--what can we do to attract more teachers into the major shortage areas where we have with respect to STEM in the classroom? Mr. White. Thank you, Congressman. I want to say two things, I want to echo the sentiments of Mr. Brosnan and others on the panel today who have emphasized that our teacher shortage it as much if not more a retention problem than a recruitment problem. And I think largely that is about our practice as educators, are we aware of what is happening in our system, are we aware of what is running through our teacher's minds and are we talking to them about their plans. However from a policy perspective I do agree with you, there need to be changes. And I think we would be naive. In my State, somebody can go and work at Exxon Mobil in Baton Rouge, and work in east Asia, and work in sub-Saharan Africa and all do it for a salary three times, just out of college, what a teacher would make. It is naive for us to think that we can compete with that job if we are not making legitimate changes to the finances of it. And the States are going to have to step up and have to change the way they distribute our tax dollars within the way we compensate educators, if we are going to legitimately address that 21st century challenge you are describing. I will qualify this by saying I am an English teacher. In my State, as in most, we don't have a shortage of English teachers. English teachers should be able to acknowledge and other teachers like us that STEM is a different beast, that those teachers with those qualifications are able to compete for a different set of jobs, and that our school systems and States need to step up and find a way to finance an adequately competitive salary for STEM majors. Mr. Comer. Right. Let me make sure I understand this. Who establishes the curriculum for a preparation program? And are there particular skills you think those programs should do a better job of teaching? Mr. White. It is a combination of the State boards of education, the boards of regents and the universities themselves, as well as Deans in colleges of education. So it is different pieces of the curriculum are delegated to different entities. But if I had to pick one, as an English teacher I think I can say this, the basic science of teaching reading is something that every teacher in America should understand. And the basic practice of teaching the foundations of reading to nonreaders is something that everyone should understand. And we all should bear responsibility from Congress on down for the fact that there are many, many, many teachers in America today who have never really been prepared to teach a child to read. Everyone who is interested in education policy should read Emily Sanford's reporting on teacher preparation and why America's teachers too frequently do not know how to teach children to read. Mr. Comer. All right. One of the challenges that I think Mr. Brosnan or one of panelists mentioned in attracting and retaining teachers is I think I understood this right, my teachers in Kentucky say this, the excessive amount of degrees or certification or continuing education that is required to be a teacher, is that too much? As we look forward, look ahead into the future of education, obviously we have to have a good supply of quality prepared teachers, but are we requiring too many degrees? Is that costing too much money, running up their student loan debt? Is it necessary, Mr. White, to have all of the degrees that a lot of teachers are required to have before they ever begin teaching. Mr. White. Well, I don't begrudge any educator for pursuing continued education. I think everybody on this panel has evidence of that, some more than others, perhaps. But at the same time, I do think that we need to recognize as States and certainly here in Congress as well, every time we levy one of these requirements on to a school system or onto a school we are putting in financially on the shoulders of educators. And yes, it is true that very often schools systems have found a way to remunerate them in exchange for that. But for our youngest teachers in particular, it can be an up front barrier. And we need to ask ourselves, if we have these evaluation systems that we fought so hard to create and we evaluate an individual repeatedly year after as effective for their children, why would we in government come back and say, no, you have to take another step or I wouldn't allow to you do this anymore. Mr. Comer. Right. I agree and appreciate you all's testimony and look forward to working with you in the future. Mrs. Davis. Thank you Mr. Comer. Ms. Hayes. Mrs. Hayes. Thank you, Madam Chair. It is so great to start my morning in a room full of teachers. You have no idea how much I needed to see you today. Thank you all for being here. And special shout out to Mr. Brosnan who is from Bridgeport, Connecticut. I know the area well. And I think the committee should know that there are two national teachers of the year in the room today. We have Terry Dozier who was the 1985 National Teacher of the Year, a fellow history teacher over there. So it is great to share the space with you this morning. I am so happy that we are having this hearing are about teaching, because what I like to tell people and what I-- teaching is not mission work, you know we work really hard. It requires expertise, commitment and preparation. And every educator knows that these single most effective driver for student success in outcomes is an effective teacher. Everybody knows that. It is the teacher that stands in front of them. But today I want to talk about teacher recruitment and retention. I spent the last four years of my time in the Waterbury public schools working on minority teacher recruitment and retention. So much so that our governor at the time created a task force and our State passed legislation to address this very issue of getting teachers who lived in the communities to consider working in those very same communities. I am a first generation educator. And many of my colleagues came from education families. When you talk to people they say, my mom and my grandmother were a teacher, my father--and there were usually more than one person in the family who were teachers. So now as we are trying to attract this first generation educators we have to change the conversation. My daughter is now a teacher. And I have to tell you she works in a school district where she is one of two minorities in her school. So how do we continue to support people after we get them into these communities? And it is not just about the money. Anyone who goes into this profession goes into it because they have a true and a genuine investment in children. So my first question is for Ms. McManus. Do you have any thoughts on how we can infuse the educator pipeline? We are hearing today about at the college level and then after, but I know that we are the only profession where kids have a 12 year interview. There is 12 years where we are standing in front of them and they are considering how they feel about teaching as a profession. So what can we do before they even get to the point where they are making the decision in college to choose those classes? Ms. McManus. Thank you. So in Hillsborough, we are very homegrown. I mean eighth largest district in the country and we have students that we have not traditionally done a great job of cultivating early on in their careers to become future educators. And so we have a task force locally as well for looking at our high school students and really encouraging them to go the route of education, even before they leave high school they know that is going to be the track that they are going to take. Those are the same teachers and the same teachers, those are the same people that are going to be leading our schools in the future. And so the important component is that as we identify who those people are that we continue to cultivate those relationship from the time they go into their colleges of education to the time they enter the system and continue to cultivate those relationships and those skills of our students. Our leadership pathways, we are very much focused on recruiting diverse leaders into our principal pipeline. And that is coming from the teachers in our classrooms. And so we are very targeted, our recruitment efforts. As we reach out to leader teachers of color in hopes that we can help encourage them to become the future leaders. And so it starts from high school. It starts probably from middle school. That we start to help people down that path-- Mrs. Hayes. I was going to say that. Ms. McManus. In probably elementary school. How many of us want to be teachers and we were encouraged to go a different path. We need to cultivate students from the time they are young into the time they go into College to make those choices. Mrs. Hayes. Thank you. I appreciate you saying that. I actually did a lot of work in that area. I had a young educator society club in the high school, but we decided to introduce it first in the middle school, and then even in the elementary school allow students to shadow teachers. Because what ends up happening is they hear all of the negative parts of profession, but don't see the joy that comes with teaching. In my remaining time, Mr. Daire, we heard a lot about alternative routes to certification and it is not just about cost, these are sometimes second career educators, art teachers, technical teachers. Can you tell us what Virginia has done to ensure that those online and alternative programs are of the highest quality and producing the best and most effective teachers? Mr. Daire. In terms of the alternative certification programs, within the State, unfortunately I don't have a lot of detailed information on those State level requirements, but programs do have to provide a significant amount of data to the State in terms of the outputs and the quality of the teachers that are being produced. Mrs. Hayes. Thank you. My time has expired and again thank you all so much for being here. Mrs. Davis. Thank you, Ms. Hayes. Mr. Smucker. Mr. Smucker. Thank you, Madam Chair. I am not sure how to effectively follow the national teacher of the year and asking questions about teachers. But would like to congratulate Ms. Hayes obviously on that wonderful achievement. We should always celebrate and have deep respect and gratitude for those who choose the profession of teaching. They obviously are having an impact on our future. And so we thank you Ms. Hayes and everyone else who has chosen that profession. I was particularly interested in, Mr. White, in what you are doing in your State. I served for a brief amount of time as the chair of education committee in the State senate in Pennsylvania. And we spent some time looking at effective programs in other States as well as in other countries measuring what we are doing in the United States compared to other countries. And it always came back to great teachers and great principals. And we must do everything that we can to support them to ensure that they are prepared and that we are supporting them throughout their job. One of interesting things that I heard you say which was one of the takeaways for me in the course of those conversations is the idea of a mentor. And then the other was in some other countries they spend more time in preparation rather than actual classroom teaching was one of the takeaways we got back. And I am just curious, have you incorporated that into your program at all? That is in terms of working with a mentor, but maybe it is a classroom period during the week, maybe it is at the beginning of everyday, just finding more time to allow teachers to sort of plan and interact with their fellow teachers? Mr. White. Yes. Mr. Smucker. Has that been something you looked at all? Mr. White. Yes. And I think that when you look at comparison between our country and for example how the school systems that Congress funds across the country spend say Title I dollars, and how the most highly effective systems of educator preparation and the teacher workforce say in South Korea or in Singapore. And you look at the difference in how we spend our dollars. We have spent on radical reduction in class size and an increase in our workforce, they have spent on to some extent more time with students, but really Congressman as you say more time with one another. Our teachers somewhat by virtue of the way we spend somewhat by the virtue of the way we manage simple do not have structured into their day enough time together. That is enough time with mentors, pre service and in service and it is enough time as part of a well structured team inquiring into how as well students are doing and what it means for our practice. And as a consequence you get what some of us on the panel have described earlier, which is you have a retention problem. If teachers had that system that prioritizes structured time with one another, one-on-one, and in teams I believe deeply that our retention problem would-- Mr. Smucker. I think it is something that States--I am sorry to cut you off, but I think it is something that States should be looking at as they look to improve their system. You talked about an evaluation system of the teacher preparation programs in the State, you are in the midst of I think of a 2- year pilot program you described in your testimony. And I am just interested in knowing what you have learned during that process and how have you--how has the system being changed as a result of that? Mr. White. Well, I think as in any accountability system there must be a clear definition of what you want programs to achieve. And I unfortunately believe between the K-12 laws and the higher Ed laws of State and Federal government, we are telling our institutions of higher education and our school systems we go achieve 10,000 things. They should be achieving A, B and C. And in our State that is quantifiably effective teachers placed in the places that need those teachers most and practices such as I described before, teaching teachers to teach reading that are valuable to students. If you can do those three things, you are going to do well in our system. And consequently we have seen institutions step up and make real programmatic changes to focus on things like the foundations of reading and also to start prioritizing placements in communities where oftentimes educators have not gone to be prepared, such as-- Mr. Smucker. I want to get one additional question in. I am sorry. You talked a little bit about Title II, and I am interested in knowing to what extent you, in your program, interact currently with Title II the Higher Education Act, what impact is it currently having on the systemwide improvement in Louisiana? Mr. White. Well we interact with it to the extent that I don't believe it is a strategic driver of change. Unlike Title II of ESSA, I don't believe it is a strategic driver of change. Why? It requires data, obscure data that distract our attention from the things that really matter. And two, it funds narrow partnerships between a local university and a local school system, rather than Statewide plans for change. You are not getting the most for your investment by way of Title II HEA. Mr. Smucker. I think it is a message that is loud and clear and we should certainly take that into reconsideration as we look at reauthorization. Thank you. Mrs. Davis. Thank you, Mr. Smucker. Ms. Shalala. Ms. Shalala. Thank you very much. I actually have spent some time in schools of education teaching, and particularly teaching Teach for America students most recently in their master's program. And I am very interested in the retention issue, but I think the better model for residency is actually nursing, which has moved into residency programs. But if you look at nursing curriculum, they introduce clinicals much earlier in their curriculum, rotating students through curriculums, almost from the beginning of their nursing education. That helps them, but the key--and if you read the literature, as all of you probably I am sure have in teacher education, it is not just doing the residency, it is whether the mentorship stays for a number of years afterwards. Because you can't learn how to teach in 1 year, I certainly didn't learn how to teach in 1 year, even with the best kind of intensive mentorship. So it is the number of years afterwards. The number of schools of education actually stay with the students. And that is they have master teachers that actually stay with their graduates for a number of years afterwards, and that makes a difference on retention. But it can't be just that, it has to be salary, all of those elements that are coming in. I have a particular interest in the question of why we are putting the least experienced teachers in the classroom. Mr. White, you have had experience with Teach for America and obviously desperate to find some people that will teach in the most challenging schools. We put a lot of very inexperienced people into classrooms. And the question is what are our strategies to avoid that other than trying to pay senior teachers more? What are the incentives to try to get our most experienced people in the classroom, in the places that are the most challenge for us? Yes. Mr. White. Thank you. Well, I think first it does start with money. And I do think we need to be real, it is a different job. Teaching in some of the schools that Ms. McManus was describing, they certainly exist in New Orleans, and Baton Rouge and Shreveport is a different job. It does require a different level of compensation. And so there are districts like Shreveport, Louisiana that have stepped up to do that, $15,000 per year more in the hardest to staff schools. But also you need leaders to go, you can't just be saying teachers you go, you need your most effective leaders to go. Until the leaders go, and I believe financial incentives helped there as well, you won't create a culture that says we believe this is a promotion, this is a step up to take the hardest challenge the district has to offer. And so I think school systems can achieve what you are describing if there is a cultural shift, because not just the low people in their first years of teachers or what have you are doing it, but the senior most, most experienced people are doing it. Ms. McManus. I would like to comment on that as well. We formed in Hillsboro a Turnaround Leadership pathways and it is exactly for the reason of taking our very best leaders to move to some of our most under performing schools in some of our under served communities. Our students in those schools are brilliant. They need the right teachers, which the only way to really create that environment where teachers can achieve success is through the leaders. And so we have done exactly that, made it attractive for our very best leaders to move into our schools and that is how we attract great teachers and that is how we retain them as well. Ms. Shalala. Any other comments from any of the other panel members on retention? Mr. Daire. Thank you. I think in terms of retention and I agree with my panelists that we do have to look at ways of having our teacher candidates get into the schools earlier. And I think what you stated what the nursing model I think is a great example and that is what we are trying to move towards, to be able to get our students, particularly in urban high need schools earlier. I think another point that we need to consider is that when we look at the hardest to staff schools and the poorest performing schools it is also the schools where there is a high concentration of poverty with school children that are subject to significant amount of problems, but we need to do a better job of training our educators to be more effective with all students, particularly those living in poverty with under represented minority students integrating more, culturally responsive practices and things of that nature, which I think is going to contribute to the retention because those folks are going to be better prepared for those environments that they are placed. Ms. Shalala. Let me also note that one of challenges is State school boards changing the requirements. And if you look at most schools of education their teacher preparation section they note that you should be prepared if there is a change in the requirements and they put the burden on the students as well as on the individual schools and that is really very difficult for many people. Thank you very much. I yield back. Mrs. Davis. Thank you, Ms. Shalala. And Mr. Guthrie. Mr. Guthrie. Thank you very much. I appreciate my colleague bringing that up that line of questions, Dr. Shalala. It was her credentials. That is important. And actually the one question I was going to ask I will get to that in a second. But I was in general assembly in Kentucky, and study schools that were in challenging environments, be it Appalachia, be it Louisville. And I will tell you, if you go into a school that is beating all expectations and we want them all to beat all expectations, it was a dynamic principal. It absolutely you could feel it in the principal, you could see it in the principal and the staff, but the principal led the staff. You had to have a great group of teachers but you had to have a great principal that was able to be the school leader and just owned it and was part of it and moved it forward. One thing, Mr. White, I was interested in the believe and repair residency model that you have. I know that you do, it is for college seniors to gain a full year of practice experience. Have you thought about reaching into like the high school level, the high school seniors to give them kind of a taste of what teaching is so that it can inspire people to be in careers of teaching? Mr. White. Yes, absolutely. And I think Ms. McManus spoke to this a little bit earlier as well. I couldn't agree more than it has to happen. We actually just started a State chapter of an organization called educators rising which provides across States for a short course sequence within high schools that can be done either as an elective or as part of their core curriculum that gives students advanced standing in colleges of education so they can get some of their foundational course work out of way. It is high school students, it gets them some clinical experience as well and more than anything get them exposure to as Congresswoman Hayes said the very positive aspects of our profession not just the challenges of our profession. Mr. Guthrie. Okay. Thanks very much. And alternative certifications interested in that as well because the teaching profession is very difficult and we have great teaching schools in Kentucky, but sometimes somebody comes with that right expertise or that right like a chemical engineer wants to see chemistry of trying to change careers. An electrical engineer wants to teach math, we see that, or somebody has a great drama history, wants to come and teach liberal arts in a high school or arts in a high school. And when I was in general assembly we found it was easier, I have to say this right, it was easier to get a college credit for a high school course than a high school credit--so if you are at Bowling Green High and you took physics at Western Tech University, it was more difficult to get that credit at the high school because the physics professor, the Ph.D. in research at Western was not a certified teacher. And so we had to break through some of that. And sometimes you do things in legislatures and they have better results and even anticipated doing. And we have people, they talking about now cost of college, we have people now because we came up with an alternative credentialing to make sure that college professors were certified teachers for purposes of high school credit. And we now have people graduating from high school with associate degrees. I never saw that coming. I never thought people could get 2 years of associates along with high school, but we have that happening. And so would you talk about Louisiana or do any of you want to talk about your alternative certification models? I am sure we have absolute quality in the classroom, but sometimes there is it that right person with the right experience that is a good leader and can come into a high school classroom. Mr. White. First, Congressman, I agree with you. I run into the circumstances too we have people with wonderful higher Ed credentials that can't get into our K-12 system. It is ridiculous and we should all lower the barriers to that kind of transition happening. At the same time we need to be real with the fact that too often our alternative certification models are not that. It is an empty special Ed classroom in a rural community where there is just nobody to teach. And somebody is coming in very cold, with very limited experience, and we are putting them in front of children who need their expertise and skills very badly. So we have a balance, we have to have a balance between the right barriers and the right preparation models and reducing barriers so that there is more of a fluid process. I think the way you do that is by requiring serious, serious support for all alternative certification candidates when they come in. And I described how we have a rural parish or counties, we call them parishes in Louisiana, that are piloting a model where every single day, every alternative certification teacher co-teaches with a State certified mentor. They coteach their class for at least one period per day, which both is cost effective for the teacher and the school system, but it provides the teacher modeling and support that sadly was at least too rare in our alternative certification programs beforehand. Mr. Guthrie. Anyone else want to comment on that? Ms. McManus. Do you want to comment on that? Ms. McManus. Yes. Mr. Guthrie. Yes absolutely. Ms. McManus. Yes. We have an alternative certification program in Hillsborough, but I will tell you, and we do get some great teachers, because of the intensity of the support on the job. The job--the role of a teacher and leader it is an evolution to become great at your craft. And where you can get the before job experience in classrooms and then you can get the on the job support after entering the role, that creates the ultimate win for our students. Students teaching is way more than content, it is so much around the systems and the management in your classroom and how you get to know every single student and some folks come in without that and then they struggle. And so I think, I mean, alternate certification program is working because there is a teacher shortage and we do have to look at every possible avenue to get great teachers, but the intensity of the support mentoring and for time over time is critical if you are going to come in lacking some type of pre service support. Mr. Guthrie. Thank you for those answers. I yield back. Mrs. Davis. Thank you very much. Mrs. Lee. Mrs. Lee. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And thanks for having this important discussion. You know, in this committee we talk a lot about student debt and certainly that is something that is weighing in this country with about $1.5 trillion in student debt having incredible consequences not only in terms of student's ability to pay it back, but also in terms of their career choices. And then when we talk about recruiting effective teachers in the overwhelming majority of college students are then forced to take on debt. And in fact those entering the teaching profession on average take on about $20,000 in debt for a Bachelor's degree and $50,000 for a master degree. And then despite this investment mid-career teachers can expect to earn about 30 percent less than similar credentialed mid-career professionals. I would like to ask Dr. Daire, can you speak about the importance of increased Federal investments in service scholarships and loan forgiveness programs in supporting a stable and strong teaching workforce? Mr. Daire. I think they are critically important, particularly when we consider the teachers who are even interested in going into education for the sole purpose of going into an urban high needs schools. Those tend to be more underrepresented minority students, students who have left economic ability to pay for University. So I think it is important for us to continue those financial aid programs, and Pell grants, and those student loan programs. When we look overall, we don't do a good job as a Nation educating our bottom 50 percent SCS students. And I think that is critically important, not just in education. I mean we need that for the teaching profession, but overall we have to find ways to really support students who are at the lower income enabled in order to access higher education and especially in the teaching profession. Mrs. Lee. Thank you. That actually plays well into my next question regarding diversity and the teaching core. And this is such--I come from Las Vegas, Henderson, Nevada. And in Clark County district we always struggle in hiring teachers. In fact last year we had to hire close to 2,000 teachers in 1 year. And we have a student body that represents 75 percent students of color, over 50 percent Latino students, that we only have 11 percent Latino teachers, 14 percent African- American students with about 7 percent African-American teachers. I know we know the studies that link student achievement with the representation of diversity in the teaching forces. Fortunately, I also represent three public colleges who are minority and Hispanic serving institutions, UNLV, Nevada State College, and the College of Southern Nevada. I am proud to say that UNLV is one of the top five most diverse universities in the country. Mrs. Lee. But given that, I wanted to ask you and Dr. Daire or whoever wants to, how can we leverage the tools of the MSI/ HSI programs to build a core teachers that is aligned to the socioeconomic characteristics of a student population. Mr. Daire. Well, I think we have to really look at pipeline programs that get into the high schools. What Congresswoman Hayes said about the 12 year interview, I think that is critically important that we have to--and this hasn't been talked about here, but what is the experience that underrepresented minority students are receiving in the classroom. And is that interview process one that is likening them to want to become a teacher? And so I will add that component because that has not been discussed. And I will let some of the other panelists address some of the other factors. But we really to start early with our students, because if we look at strategies once they are in college, we have missed a large percentage of students. Mrs. Lee. Great. Does anyone else want to-- Mr. White. I would just note we haven't discussed today the fact that there remains an achievement gap in post secondary achievement between racial minority and other students in our country. And if there were more schools like Georgia State University for example that had eliminated that completer gap, then you would have a much larger percentage of the college graduate population that is representative of the student population in our public schools. Mrs. Lee. Great. Thank you. I yield the remainder of my time. Thank you. Mrs. Davis. Thank you very much. Mr. Watkins. Mr. Watkins. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you all for being here. I appreciate it. I am the older brother of a teacher, son of a teacher, and grandson and all of this is so vitally important. My question is for Mr. White. One of the challenges we hear about is finding and attracting good students to enter into the teaching profession. Has Louisiana addressed these standards, knowing that it is a balance between their capabilities, as well as the needs of call it the school system? Mr. White. I think it is first a matter first of professionalizing the path in. Undergraduates are talking with their friends who are aspiring lawyers or aspiring nurses or what have you. And seeing them get exciting experience in the work setting. And yet in teaching too often that experience is limited to a short internship. We have to professionalize the path into our profession, and we have to do things like many of my panelists have discussed today bringing that into the high schools. Finally, though, we are really for the first time in some time reaching a point where it is not just that teaching is a poorly paid profession relative to other bachelors-requiring jobs, but it is at the rate of escalation in our competitor fields is now increasingly out pacing the rate of escalation within the salaries of our own field and we have to be real about that. Debt in some form is going to continue to exist for good or for not. And it is going to continue to be somewhat the burden of college graduates and their families to repay it. And coming into our profession and saying, you could either make $100,000 or you can make $35,000, and then saying what is attractive about our profession is completely counterintuitive. States and local governmental entities need to step up and find a way of financing better the front end compensation of people entering the teacher profession if we are ever to make it legitimately competitive in the 21st Century. Mr. Watkins. Thank you. Switching gears, Mr. White, the evaluation system, how has that changed during the first phase? Mr. White. Well, we have piloted our evaluation system in three areas, are your graduates effective for their students, are you placing students in rural and other settings where there are graduates where they are badly needed, and third are your practices actually changing? Is the way that you are teaching teachers to teach improving? And I think of all areas, that is the area we have seen the greatest improvement. We have been piloting an onsite review model, modeled after the United Kingdom and what they do for their colleges of education. They are able to be onsite giving feedback on a regular basis, through our colleges of education and our alternative programs. And I can tell you they are making changes in their practice. I have seen literally in 2 years institutions improve from say a score of 2 out of 4 to a score of 3.5 out of 4, which is tremendous progress on the same instrument. So they are improving the way they teach teachers to teach. Mr. Watkins. Thank you. And Madam Chair, I yield the balance of my time. Mrs. Davis. Thank you very much. And we now move to Ms. Bonamici. Ms. Bonamici. Thank you very much. Thank you to the Chairs and the Ranking Members. And thank you to our witnesses. I am glad we are having this important discussion today about how we can better support our Nation's educators. I just want to follow up on my colleagues' comments and the testimony about professionalizing the profession or making it more attractive to more people. One of the things we can do is we can push back on all the public school bashing that we hear in our communities. That doesn't help people who are just trying to decide what profession to enter. So I invite everyone to join me in that effort to talk about the great opportunity and the importance of public education. In my home State of Oregon, and I know Representative Jayapal talked about diversity, but we have about 40 percent of our students are students of color, but 90 percent of teacher the workforce is White. And as the chair of the Civil Rights and Human Services Subcommittee, I certainty recognize the importance and value of having diverse educators in classrooms. Research shows there is a positive correlation between having a teacher of color in the achievement in students of color. And as we continue to advance equity in public education, we have to make sure that we address that lack of diversity both in the teacher and school leader workforce and provide support for and opportunities for teachers of color. Dr. Daire, nationally the majority of public school students are children of color. Yet only 20 percent of incoming teachers are persons of color. In northwest Oregon the gap is even larger. Beaverton and Hillsboro--that is Hillsboro, Oregon. I know there is another Hillsboro--the third and fourth largest school districts in Oregon are now majority students of color, but only a fraction, about 12 percent of teachers in those districts, were teachers of color. And the school districts have actually joined with two other districts and launched a countywide Washington County Diverse Educator Pathway to address this issue and increase diversity and retention of teachers of color throughout their created educator pathways. And we know that one of barriers to increasing diversity is the cost of college. And research shows that teachers of color are often unable to afford a high quality preparation without supports like grants, aid, and information gathered from FASFA shows that a higher percentage of Black students, more than students from any other racial group have no expected family contribution. Can you talk about how making college more affordable could help diversify the profession? Mr. Daire. I think it is going to be critically important that we address that. I think the data that you articulate is reflective of what we see in Virginia. And we need to continue to invest in the different supports to help offset those costs, looking at the student loan forgiveness, looking at Pell grants, looking at other incentives. Another issue in Virginia is the cost of licensing tests, which can be anywhere from $300 to $500 for students to take. So there are some other barriers that even exist after the cost of education. And I think when we look at those numbers, that is not going to change overnight. So we have to do a better job in ensuring that the White teachers are receiving the necessary training to work with students living in poverty, to work with students who are culturally diverse from them. Ms. Bonamici. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I know with college affordability we need short-term solutions and long- term solutions. And I am getting ready to reintroduce the SIMPLE Act, which will get and keep more student loan borrowers and income-driven repayment so the borrowers who do take on debt, for example to pursue high quality teacher preparation programs can get into income-driven repayment. Ms. McManus, in addition to increasing diversity among our Nation's teachers, we know that we need diversity in our school leaders as well. So how does your school district make sure that it is recruiting school leaders of color? And why is that important to you? And what can Congress do to support those efforts? Ms. McManus. It is very important that we also have diversity in leadership and we have heard the research as to why. Our teachers--our students need to see teachers and other adults that look like them in our schools. And also, diversity makes us smarter and stronger. And we need to have diverse perspectives in every one of our schools. In Hillsborough again we recruit heavily into our next layer of leadership from our teacher ranks. And so we work across divisions to try to start at the teacher level, because those are the people that then we targeted, performed targeted recruitment efforts to then move into leadership positions. We started a partnership with University of Tampa, and that is to recruit leader--teachers of color into a master's program where we act--because a master's is required before you become a leader in Hillsborough, a school-based leader. We paid for half of their education so that we can have more leaders of color, have the opportunities for advancement in our district. Ms. Bonamici. Thank you so much. I see my time has expired. I yield back, Madam Chair. Mrs. Davis. Thank you very much. Mr. Grothman. Mr. Grothman. First of all, I have a comment for Mr. White. I think one of the problems--well, you mentioned the underpayment of teachers, and I will ask you to do a Google search a little bit when you get done here. I think a lot of those statistics don't take into account fringe benefits. And I don't think we are doing future generations any favor when we run down the occupation. I remember when I was in high school, one of the teachers got up in front of the class when I was a senior in high school, and I wanted to be a teacher, and ran down the occupation, and said how underpaid he was and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I thought, well, I am not going to be a teacher, just because my teachers are running me down. I recently talked to another student going to a very nice suburban high school in Milwaukee whose teacher went off, and said how underpaid he was, and ran it down. And I am sure by the time he was done, nobody in the class wanted to be a teacher. Someone over here, I can't remember which Congressman, said, we shouldn't be running down public education. And I do think this idea of running down the occupation of teachers being underpaid is not necessarily appropriate. And I would suggest you do a little bit of research when you take fringe benefits into account. I think you will find that teachers are not as underpaid as you think. Now next question I have, I will switch and go to questions. I read a book once, I wish I could remember the name about how to get the best people in teaching. And they felt one way to do that was to make is more of a high status profession, not cost, but high status. And they talked about--I think the two countries they talked about were Finland and Poland. And there what they had done is they had tried to grab the best students, I don't think they had ACTs or SAT scores in London or Poland, but whoever is doing the best on the standardized test and try to get them to go into teaching. I wondered if any of you know right now, as far as graduates from schools of education, where we are on SAT, ACT scores compared to the other schools and colleges. Mr. White. I will clarify my first comment for you briefly, Congressman. My point was precisely your point, which is that actually States invest significantly more on the back end of the profession through retirement systems that typically start early and are relatively lucrative relative to Private Sector accounts, rather than thinking about how do we target investments up front. It should be looked at that in a State like mine, 25 to 30 percent of all State dollars go directly into retirement systems that are retiring people or compensating them 30 years after they start doing the job that we are talking about here today. So my point was at least related to that, not to make broadly the point that teachers are underpaid. Secondly, you are right relative to college as a business, relative to college of engineering, and in most cases relative to colleges of arts and scientists we have then given universities the ACT scores in Louisiana, the colleges of education of lower. However, there are exceptions to that. There are institutions where the college of education have competitive ACT scores with the colleges of engineering or the colleges of business. And I think it is in that variation that we with have to take a look at what are those places doing to, as you suggest, brand the profession as one that is fully competitive with those others. That is what they are doing and why you get that parity. Mr. Grothman. Thank you. I appreciate your answer. I obviously keep track of Wisconsin most because that is where I am from. And I know so many of the students they have to compete to get into the school of business, or the school of engineering, or the school of nursing. And it would be good if we had the same competition to get into the school of education. The next question I have, I enjoy being on the Education Committee in part because I have a lot of opinions on K-12 education. But one of the things that intrigues me is the degree to which people come here and ask the Federal Government to dive into education. In my first term here we passed the Student Succeeds Act and the whole purpose of that was to get the Federal Government kind of out of education. And my local superintendents were pleased we passed the Student Succeeds Act. Nevertheless, again and again we have here instances in which people introduce bills and want the Federal Government to dive into education more and more. As far as diving into it with money, I think it goes up and down every month it seems. But right now the Federal Government is borrowing 17 or 18 percent of our budget. And at least the State of Wisconsin went into this budget year with a big surplus. And I don't think Wisconsin is alone in that because States frequently rely on sales and income tax dollars for their budgets. And as the economy booms so does that. What can we do to educate advocates for the education system that they should start more at the State or local level and expecting the Federal Government to dive in? Not just with dollars, but apparently with rules and regulations as to how-- Mrs. Davis. Excuse me, Mr. Grothman. You are leaving them no time to respond to you. So I am sorry, I am going to have to go to the next. Mr. Grothman. I can let them respond in writing. Mrs. Davis. And we try in how you do that also for the record, if you like. And perhaps there will be another opportunity. I will try and do as well. Okay? Mrs. Davis. Mr. Levin. Mr. Levin. Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I am really concerned that the lack of support for teachers and school leaders is pushing teachers out of the classroom and causing a shortage of qualified educators. My wife Mary taught 6th grade for years, my sister-in-law is a special ed teacher. I am just completely surrounded by teachers, which is a beautiful thing. And so I know the importance of giving teachers the preparation, support, and resources they need to deliver the high-quality education our children deserve. Mr. Brosnan, what would you most like the Members of this committee to know about the teaching profession, and what are your recommendations for improving teacher preparation? Mr. Brosnan. Thank you, Congressman. I think the most resounding thing that you have heard from all of my fellow panelists, and I will reiterate, teaching is a wonderful profession. I absolutely love it and, clearly, my colleagues do as well. I think that should not be lost when we are talking about loan forgiveness and salary and other elements that we have discussed here today. We love education and we love working with our students. I think one of the things that needs to improve in preparation programs is, like my colleague, Mr. White, outlined for us, a longer period of residency so that when that perspective teacher and graduate becomes employed, they have had a full year of experience in a classroom. I think that is an excellent model, and I am so pleased to hear that it exists, even if it is a couple thousand miles away from me. Mr. Levin. That is great. All right. Thank you. I do want to go back to some of the financial issues, though. I think that if we are serious about supporting teachers, we need to address the issue of college affordability systematically as a Nation, and that has long been recognized as a barrier to both recruitment and retention of educators. Today, two-thirds of individuals entering the teaching profession must take out student loans. They have an average debt of $20,000 for a bachelor's degree and $50,000 for a master's degree, only to enter the profession that will pay 30 percent less by mid-career when compared to similarly credentialed professionals in other fields. The America's College Promise Act, which I will be introducing next week, will create a partnership between the Federal Government and States to provide tuition and fee-free community college to all students. The proposal would also provide grants to cover a significant portion of tuition and fees for the first 2 years of attendance for low-income students enrolling at qualified minority-serving institutions, or MSIs. America's College Promise would mean providing support to all perspective teachers attending both community colleges and MSIs. So, Dean Daire, how would fully covering tuition at community colleges and MSIs help make teaching a more financially viable career choice? Do you think it would, and how specifically would it? Mr. Daire. Well, I think it would, particularly if we can tap those pipelines down into the K-12 schools and also ensure that we have strong articulation agreements between the 4- year--between the 4-year universities and the community colleges, and also that we can ensure that at the community college level, as my colleagues have said, we have to really make sure that our candidates are getting experiences earlier in the classroom. And so I think if we do those things, I think it would definitely be quite promising to have that type of support for teacher candidates. Mr. Levin. At VCU and other similar institutions, do a number of people who go into the profession start out at community colleges? Is it a significant factor around the country--in Virginia and around the country, to your knowledge? Mr. Daire. Well, Virginia is a little bit unique in that for about the past 23 years, up until recent legislation, teachers for licensure had to receive their master's in teaching, and so that really created some challenges for strong articulation programs. That legislation has changed. VCU, we are introducing five new teacher ed undergraduate programs starting this fall, and some other universities around the State. There will be a second wave next year. We are really excited because that is going to really allow us to develop those articulation agreements with the community colleges and also programs that tap into high schools to create a solid pipeline. Mr. Levin. Wonderful. Thank you so much to all of you for your testimony today. And, Madam Chair, I yield back. Mrs. Davis. Thank you. Mr. Meuser. Mr. Meuser. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you all very, very much for being here with us today. I think we certainly all agree the importance of educators, of teachers. I think the good teachers in our lives, even as old as me, still remember very well. More importantly is the teachers for my children and their--how well and effective they are. And it is interesting how you can get a lot of information if you ask the right questions about teachers, which I have done for many, many years now, and you get a good understanding of a great teacher, a good teacher, and maybe a not-so-good teacher. So I want to talk about that a little bit. It is certainly imperative, I think we all agree as well, that we invest in the education of our students and in the educators, those who spend all the time with our children, our young people. Education is a top priority for any thriving or successful economy, clearly. It always has been really throughout history. So we are always trying to improve, of course. So innovation and tools, methods, curriculum options, what we should be providing and what options that they should have, as we now have a lot more vocational and career development even in high schools, which I think is very important. But I also think we need to innovate when it comes to teacher accountability and definitely pay, and that sometimes is a challenge. So, Mr. White, I want to ask you about how we evaluate existing teachers, and bring to note, in Pennsylvania--I am from Pennsylvania--our teachers are evaluated either by satisfactory or unsatisfactory, two categories. Teachers get a satisfactory rating if they are deemed as distinguished, proficient, or needs improvement. Only failing teachers are given an unsatisfactory rating. And I do believe that the satisfactory percentage is in the neighborhood of 97, perhaps 98 percent. So I believe that States should be tasked with evaluating their teachers, but I am interested in your views evaluating teacher performance. I was in business for 25 years; regular feedback is very important. It helps you get better. You rely upon it. You need it. We were talking about principals a little bit earlier. I am sure the real good principals provide that. But I am not exactly sure what sort of innovation is taking place on that general feedback so teachers are focused on daily improving. Maybe you can speak to that, Mr. White. Mr. White. Well, I think States should be involved in it, and thanks in part to previous prompting from Congress, States are involved in it. But at the same time, States and certainly--certainly the Federal Government, but States as well, shouldn't dictate the terms of all professional development and feedback systems that are given in schools. You need to leave room for the customization and innovation you are describing. I will give you an example. The Teacher Advancement Program, or the TAP, system which exists in many of the States that are represented here today, is one of, from my perspective, the most comprehensive and effective systems of teacher improvement. It has its own evaluation rubric with its own set of values embedded in it for principals and other supervisors in schools to use. A State shouldn't substitute its judgment and say to a school system, you can't use an instrument like that has been proven time after time to be effective just because State government thinks it has got exactly the right way to do it. States should allow for common principles, but some distinctions as locals determine what is best in their local context. Mr. Meuser. So you are speaking from experience, so that is working, that is effective in Louisiana? Mr. White. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, teacher evaluation is a means to an end. It is a means to an end of student achievement. We should have better schools partially because schools have done the right thing, vis-a-vis, making their teachers better, and that means on some level that we as States need to insist that there are quantifiable outcomes and that teachers are getting feedback. But on the other hand, we shouldn't disrupt success and go to a school where things are progressing and say, well, now you need to do it our way. That would be an enormous mistake. Mr. Meuser. Do you ever consider student surveys of teachers? Mr. White. Absolutely. And there is a lot of evidence to show that, done well, that is effective. At the same time, it has got to be secure and trustworthy. It has to be both valid and reliable, and that is a big investment of State energies. But there is no question there are studies to show that students give consistently helpful and often valid and reliable feedback regarding teachers. Mr. Meuser. I am glad to see Ms. McManus nodding, because I think that is important. There seems to have been some--I have detected some resistance there, but I think that would be important. Well, we are all very interested in hearing what Congress can do to support your efforts. And, Madam Chair, I yield back. Mrs. Davis. Thank you very much. Dr. Adams. Ms. Adams. Thank you, Madam Chair and to the Ranking Members as well, for convening this hearing. And thank you to all the witnesses for your testimony. It has been very interesting and a little bit enlightening for me. I certainly agree with a lot of what has been said by my colleagues. I want to, first of all, thank you for your dedication to students, to children, and for your work in education. You might know that I was an educator at Bennett College in Greensboro, North Carolina, for 40 years. Started my career a little earlier than that working at a high school that is now closed, the Palmer Memorial Institute, which was the oldest college preparatory school for African Americans in a little city called Sedalia, North Carolina. It has since closed. It was actually founded by Charlotte Hawkins Brown, who was 19 years old when she founded that school. My daughter is an assistant principal at a local elementary school in Greensboro as well. I am real proud of the work she is doing. So I do know firsthand the importance of having a school administration behind you. That is really key. I served in the North Carolina House for 20-1/2 years, and so education was something that we dealt with too. I am not real happy with all that North Carolina is doing in terms of really supporting public education as they should. I think we are stifling money away, and I don't know whether or not you are experiencing that in terms of vouchers and those kinds of things. So it appears that the support that we should be giving for public education is really not what it ought to be at some of our State levels, and I speak more specifically for North Carolina. So I know it is difficult when you are faced with tight budgets and you don't have all the resources that you need, and that is why I think it is all the more reason that we have to have strong Title II funding. And so having said that, Mr. Brosnan, if I could start with you, can you tell the committee why it is so important for teachers to have supportive school leaders, and cite any examples that you might have where the influence of school leaders has been a main determinant of whether a teacher is retained? Mr. Brosnan. Thank you, Congresswoman. I can speak from personal experience that in 14 years at the same high school, I had 20 principals. Ms. Adams. Wow. Mr. Brosnan. The final one that I had before my new role working with new teachers across the entire city is an excellent leader. He has stabilized the school. He has stabilized the attrition rate and the faculty. And having the promise of an excellent leader with superior interpersonal skills and the academic and pedagogical knowledge to lead a struggling urban school forward is incalculable. Ms. Adams. Thank you. Ms. McManus, what role do you believe effective school leadership plays in teacher retention? Ms. McManus. It is a key lever in retention. You just heard that. We expect a school to have great performance for students with 20 different leaders. That causes fragmentation in some other schools that are not in some of our environments that need the best. They have leaders that have stayed there for decades. That is an inequity. That is what leads to achievement gaps in our systems. And so having a great leader is the key lever, and that is why we have chosen to invest in leadership so strongly in Hillsborough through a strong principal pipeline, because we should be able to avoid that kind of scenario when you actually identify leaders based on a common set of standards and develop them along that path. We should not have that kind of turnover. Ms. Adams. Okay. So, you know, we have heard a lot about the difficulty that teachers and school leaders of color have in staying in the workforce due to fiscal issues, but I am also interested in whether the culture of our education system is tailored in a way that makes their jobs easier. And can you speak to the emphasis of any that you place on mentoring for your teachers and school leaders of color and what sort of induction strategies that you implement when new educators of color come aboard? I want to ask Dr. Daire, and then any other person can respond. Yes, sir. Mr. Daire. Thank you for your question. We do need to support stronger induction programs, and that is something that we are doing at VCU, is that we are going to be providing that induction support for our graduates who are teaching in Title I schools for 2 years after they are finished. And this is really modeled after our Richmond Teacher Residency program which we have seen success in that area. Ms. Adams. Madam Chair, I am out of time. I will have to yield back. Mrs. Davis. Thank you. Mr. Thompson. Mr. Thompson. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you and the Ranking Members for this hearing--joint hearing. Thank all of the Members of the panel for being here today and bringing your expertise to this topic. I am sure every Member of this committee can think of a teacher that had a positive influence on, not only their education, quite frankly, their life. Maybe we didn't realize it back in the day, but in retrospect looking back, and usually it was the ones that had the higher standards, the toughest teachers are the ones I look back with admiration today and had tremendous influence. Teachers are the most underrated yet powerful professionals in the entire world, is what I believe. They truly do shape young minds. In Pennsylvania, we have a program, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania instituted a teacher in the workforce grant program that focuses on strength and collaboration between local educators and local businesses. The goal is to better prepare students with the skills for the in- demand jobs, creating really pathways to opportunity. On the Federal side, under the current law, the Federal Teacher Quality Partnership grant connects local schools with nearby colleges and universities to create professional development programs for new teachers; however, there are not enough opportunities for established teachers to develop leadership and peer mentoring skills that help retain teachers and boost student achievement. That is why I was proud to introduce H.R. 3108, the Teachers Are Leaders Act. This bipartisan piece of legislation seeks to expand professional development and leadership growth opportunities for teachers. Now, specifically, the legislation would expand Teacher Quality Partnership grants by making teacher leader programs focused on professional development for established teachers eligible for funding. Programs would focus on peer coaching, family and community engagement, curriculum development, and other ways to make full use of their experience as educators and leaders within their communities. Now, if schools want to recruit/retain high-quality teachers, then they must treat them like the professionals that they are, and that means we must allow them to grow both inside and outside the classroom. Mr. White, thank you for being here today. I have a couple questions for you Kind of reflect a little bit on just one small thing that Pennsylvania was doing. Does Louisiana provide any State programs for established teachers who are seeking professional development? Mr. White. We do, and much of that is done through with Federal assistance, including Title II of the Every Student Succeeds Act, and a Teacher Incentive Fund grant also from the Federal Government. And I also wanted to say that I too am supportive of programs that have classroom teachers spending time in other industries' understanding, through internships or externships, what their own students as graduates will be experiencing in the workplace. Mr. Thompson. Yeah, I think those are outstanding programs for many--certain percentage of our students who go right into the marketplace and to the workplace, and the more the teachers understand what the skill sets are that are required, the higher degree of success, not just of achieving jobs, but growing within those businesses and industries for greater opportunity. You talk in your testimony about mentor teachers who work with perspective teachers as part of the State's residency program. Can you tell us more about how mentor teachers are prepared and licensed in order to ensure those teachers are effective in working with new colleagues? Mr. White. Our State has created a specific training program and a specific series of assessments, and then ultimately, a credential that mentor teachers experience. We certified more than a thousand and we are on our way to 2,000 mentor teachers. That is a permanent license. It also comes with additional funding in the form of a stipend. But I think most unique is that gaining the mentor license in the State of Louisiana makes you 40 percent of the way through to your education administrator's license. Education preparation for people who are going to lead schools shouldn't just be about what type of training do they get; it should be about who are we recruiting. And very often we have not reached out to our best classroom teachers to provide them a bridge between the classroom and school leadership. And in my view, too many of our best teachers are saying, I want to stay in the classroom; I don't want to take a leadership role. There should be a leadership role that gives them a bridge to leadership without removing them too far from the classroom. Mr. Thompson. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back. Mrs. Davis. Thank you very much. Mr. Trone, are you prepared? You just happened to come up next, having been here earlier. Thank you. Mr. Trone. Yes, ma'am. Thank you to the Chairs and Ranking Members for holding this hearing, and thank you to our witnesses for being here. Teachers and school leaders are shaping our future every day. My mother was a public schoolteacher, and I know how hard it is for educators to work to make sure the next generation has an opportunity to succeed. By supporting our teachers, we are supporting a better education and stronger outcomes for our students. That is why I am proud to see us highlighting these issues. I am also glad there is a consensus in Maryland, we must do more to elevate teachers and school leaders to build a world-class education system in our State. The Kirwan Commission on Innovation and Excellence is prioritize supporting teachers as one of its five major recommendations, including increasing pay and diversity. But as we have heard today, it is critical to recruit and retain strong teachers. Data shows 40 percent of new teachers leave the class within the first 5 years. That is a crisis. Mr. Brosnan, reducing attrition by half would virtually eliminate the teacher shortages. What support could the Federal Government provide, in your opinion, to retain effective teachers? Mr. Brosnan. Thank you, Congressman. I feel as though some of the things that we have discussed in preparation in preservice to teaching would certainly aid in reducing the attrition rate, but for an immediate fix, I think that States and municipalities need to take the idea of pointed mentorship very seriously. If we rework our preparation programs and put other measures in to place to help the next group of teachers, that doesn't do much for the classrooms that are opening in August. And I think States and municipalities need to take mentorship extremely seriously. Mr. Trone. Any other thoughts on that one? Ms. McManus. Ms. McManus. Yes, sir. We have a mentor program. All first- and second-year teachers have an assigned teacher. This is a full-release person. Title II also supports that funding for these release people to actually help ensure the success of our teachers in the first 2 years on the job. Same with leaders. Principals need that same support. Principal coaches provide support in the first 2 years, and that system of support is critical. Mr. Trone. Thank you. I completely agree with you. We have a mentorship program at my business from its board of directors right on down through. I love mentorships. It was great to work with colleagues in a bipartisan basis to introduce the Teachers Are Leaders Act. This bill will expand professional development in leadership growth opportunities for teachers. I look forward to work with the committee to better support educators in the Higher Education Act reauthorization. Last thing I had was, Ms. McManus, we have discussed, the committee, the benefits of educating the whole child. This means supporting their social/emotional development, in addition, traditional subjects, math and science. Would students benefit from including social/emotional learning, trauma-informed care, implicit bias training for educators and actually all staff in schools? Ms. McManus. Absolutely. Educating a child is not just about content. I said that earlier. It is about knowing their story. It is about knowing the challenges they are facing when they walk in the door every day, and then having our leaders and our teachers equipped to have strategies in their tool belt to be able to support our diverse learners. And so all of those topics, all of those content areas are critical for both teacher prep, leader prep, and for the ongoing support we give our educators. Mr. Trone. Secretary DeVos has rolled back several initiatives that helps teachers better support the kids, including the Obama-era discipline guidance. What has the Trump administration done, if anything, to promote those practices? Ms. McManus. Me? Mr. Trone. Yep. Ms. McManus. I am not sure exactly, but what I will say is that as we approach discipline in our systems, there is a major disparity in disciplines for students of color and other students. Suspension rates, if you look at the data, are higher, especially if you look at students with exceptionalities that are students of color, even higher. And so we have got to not have one-size-fits-all approaches to disciplining students. We have got to make sure we are meeting students where they are, and having students out of school is not going to equal better outcomes for students. So I will tell you, I have seen and I always want to ask the question, if you have seen one student that came in with some challenging behaviors turn around because of the adult interventions, how many will it take for you to believe that is the most critical part of shaping students? Mr. Trone. Thank you. That is excellent. I yield back. Mrs. Davis. Thank you very much. Mr. Cline. Mr. Cline. Thank you, Madam Chair and the Ranking Member, for holding the hearing, and thank our witnesses for being here. I want to follow on Ms. McManus' comments about when it came to disciplining students, that one size does not fit all. In fact, that applies to a whole host of educational programs and ideas. The value of federalism in our education institution, when it comes to education, is critical. And my home State of Virginia is rich with education institutions both in higher ed and K-12. During my time in the State general assembly, I authored legislation that was signed into law which gave teachers in K- 12 more resources to help identify if a student may be dyslexic so that a referral for further evaluation could be made. This legislation was able to make a transformational difference in many students' lives by allowing them to get the assistance they need to flourish in their education. Teachers want to help, but each student is different and presents their individual needs in different ways. So it is important that teachers have the resources and preparation to be able to identify them and help their students. The Virginia General Assembly does a great job of supporting teachers so they can be effective, and they are able to do this because they know the specific needs of the State and the localities. Federal Government needs to be cautious that it does not impede on the work that States are doing to support education by pushing one-size-fits-all solutions when, in fact, this type of policy often does more harm than good. I also want to take a moment to thank Dr. Daire, who is dean of a great Virginia University, VCU, for being here today as a witness. VCU prepares many future educators and maintains high national rankings for their education programs. With that Madam Chair, I yield back. Mrs. Davis. Thank you. Mr. Castro. Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairwoman. And thank you for your testimony today. I am a very big supporter of public schools. I went to public school every year, except for 5th grade when I was sent to Catholic school for a year. My dad was a public schoolteacher for at least 26 of the 31 years that he taught. He taught in the Edgewood Independent School District for all those years. And I had many great teachers that helped me believe in myself, but I also remember teachers that, quite honestly, I don't think should have been teaching. Let me give you a specific example. I went to middle school across the street from, at the time, what was at the time the largest housing project in the city of San Antonio, and I went to a multilingual school. And there was a teacher I remember that I had for German who on Halloween dressed up with a Nazi insignia on his lapel. There was a teacher that my brother had, who 2 or 3 days out of the week, would show movies--instead of doing instruction, would show movies the whole time to the students. There was a teacher that I had in high school that joked about wetbacks in a school that was probably 95 percent Mexican American. So my question to you is, for those of us that are supporters of public education, that want public education to be robust for many years to come, how do we make sure that teachers like that are either significantly improved or weeded out? Mr. Daire. So I think one recommendation that I believe has come from all of us on the panel is that we do need to get candidates, we need to get our students studying to be teachers in the classrooms earlier, and I think we need to get them in urban and high-needs classrooms earlier. I think we need to have intensive training, as you mentioned, Congressman Trone, in terms of implicit bias, understanding racism, understanding culture, understanding poverty/privilege, so that those individuals who really don't have the dispositions to work with those students can be identified earlier and maybe redirected to another career. And then for those who are staying or are receiving the type of training that will go along with what they are receiving in terms of content and pedagogy to be successful with all students, particularly students living in poverty and particularly underrepresented minority students, which is the concentration of where the challenges are happening. Mr. Castro. Anyone else? Mr. White. I would just add that, on the other side of that and maybe less inspiring, but nevertheless, due process needs to exist for any employee in our industry and, at the same time, due process need not be delayed. And there are circumstances across our country where justice is delayed because there are attitudes and occasionally actions that are fundamentally inappropriate, occasionally unlawful, and yet people are still on the rosters of public school systems on the payrolls, because State legislatures, school systems, and school boards, and occasionally labor unions, have not come together to address the issue candidly and expeditiously. Ms. McManus. We also can't shortchange the role of the principal in this. A culture that is created with a leader that also had culturally responses, education, and implicit bias and really believes in students, those types of behaviors would be addressed because they are in their classrooms regularly. They are able to create a culture that would not be allowed. Mr. Castro. Thank you. Of course, I graduated from high school in 1992, so I haven't been, you know, in a secondary school since then, and I certainly hope that things have changed since then. But that is why I asked you all the question as experts who are current in the field. So thank you all for being here. Mrs. Davis. Thank you. Ms. Omar. Ms. Omar. Thank you, Chairwoman. I was raised by many educators, and I feel a little alarmed about how, across the Nation, educator pay continues to erode, expanding the large gap between what teachers earn and what similar educated experienced professionals in other fields earn. School employees from coast to coast are fed up with living paycheck to paycheck, working two to three jobs to pay the bills, and struggling with work anxiety, sleep depravity, and being burned out. More than half, 63 percent of public school districts still offer a salary starting below 40 percent. Nearly 300 districts pay first-year teachers less than $30,000 a year. So, Mr. Brosnan, do you agree that we must increase teachers' pay salaries to a greater incentive to the path to becoming a teacher? Mr. Brosnan. Thank you, Congresswoman. I am certainly not going to say no as a practicing educator. I think my reason for saying that I agree with you is sort of twofold. I really appreciate every Member of this committee and the respect that they have for the multiple degrees that teachers do earn, whether it is required or not. I think the realistic part is that teachers do need to have a second job if they are going to live in certain areas in this country and earn the salaries that they are being paid. For 15 years, I worked after school and on Saturdays. That is time that I could have spent looking at my own student data, planning more robust lessons. Now, it is one example, and I would like to think I planned some good lessons as well, but I think it really--I think the salary conversation highlights that we want teachers to be spending more time focused on their students. And if they are living in an area where the cost of living exceeds their salary and they are forced to secure a second or sometimes third job, that is time that is, at least intellectual and thought time, that they are not spending on the students they are going to see the following morning. Ms. Omar. Did you-- Ms. McManus. I agree. I am sorry. All the nodding is because I agree with everyone and your statements. I am one of eight siblings and five of us are educators, and they tell me I am the one that went to the dark side of school leadership and they all stayed teachers. But I will tell you that, yes--and my father also being a 40-year educator. They all have had to do other things to be able to make ends meet if they--especially in a single-income household, and that is just--that is not right. And, yes, benefits are an attractive part of profession, but we need a salary that attracts people and then keeps them in our profession, and currently that does not exist. Ms. Omar. And so maybe you can help me explore what are some incentives that we can provide for people to enter the profession. We know that there are many factors that prevent people, especially people of color, from becoming teachers. I had one constituent who is a teacher tell me, no student of mine who lives in poverty chooses to enter a profession that would keep them in poverty. They operate based on logic, and choosing the teacher profession, no matter how important and valiant, is also--is almost not logical. And so how can we make this a logical choice for members of our community? Yeah. Mr. Brosnan. Our Congresswoman Hayes mentioned it earlier this morning that it is the only career where there is a 12- year interview, where the student is seeing what the teacher is doing for 12 years and deciding whether or not it is the career that they want. I think particularly for our students of color who are in predominantly urban environments, those schools need to reflect the fact that this is a wonderful profession and it is a profession that requires excellent people in it. I think if we take a look at our urban education and our urban schools with our attrition rate of teachers and our attrition rate of principals and leaders as well, that has to be a focus for this country if we are serious about bringing in more teachers of color. We need to show them that the school is functional and that it is a good experience. Ms. Omar. You probably heard it all day, you know, every single Member, I think, on committee has been impacted by a wonderful teacher, if they themselves do not have educators in their own families. We all positively talk about them, and I think it pains me, and I am sure it pains everyone on this committee, that we have teachers living with poverty. And so I hope we find a solution trying to elevate their lives as much as they have validated our lives. Thank you. Mrs. Davis. Thank you very much. Ms. Schrier. Dr. Schrier. Ms. Schrier. Thank you for all of your testimonies. My mom was a public schoolteacher, and so I grew up in that world and know how much time she spent after school planning for the next day and also know that, while the benefits were great, it would have been nice to feel rewarded appropriately by a better salary. So thank you. A lot of the discussion today has really focused on kindergarten and up education. I am a pediatrician, so I look at the little ones and know when the real brain growth happens. And so early childhood education programs like school district provided pre-K, Head Start, child care, coop education are required to have educators that have certifications, associates, bachelor's degrees in field-specific areas like early childhood development. But--and this is really for Dr. Daire and for Mr. White. We know that children birth through K, even birth through 8 learn in different ways than older children, and oftentimes the early childhood professionals are receiving training that is really better intended for older kiddos. And both of you mentioned focusing on early childhood education professional development. I wondered if you could talk about some effective initiatives that you believe other States and higher education institutions should consider adopting and Federal supports that might help that adoption. Mr. White. Thank you. I would say two things first. One, child care, Head Start, public pre-K, and to the degree that it is funded publicly, private pre-Ks, do need to begin working on a common definition of excellence in the early childhood setting, and I am not just speaking for 4-year-olds; infants and toddlers. And so in our State, working with the University of Virginia, we have developed a system, we use the class instrument that uses a common definition of what a great care environment looks like for an infant or for a toddler or a 3- year-old. So there does need to be a common definition of what is good. And then secondly, we cannot accept the huge disparity in qualifications between child care and our public pre-Ks. Child cares care for the students, in a way, with the most complicated needs, our youngest children, infants. I know. I have got one, and they are complicated. And they need to be professionals. But in our State, up until 5 years ago, you only had to be 18 years of age. You didn't even have to have a high school diploma to teach a federally funded child care program. I don't know that is something that the Federal Government should get involved in. I do know that fragmentation of Federal funding streams hurts States' ability to create unified early childhood systems, which leads to the kind of backroom corners of our system like any system that doesn't even require a high school degree. Every State should change that. Ms. Schrier. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I also appreciate your calling attention to that notion of different standards of excellence, because as I think about schools even in my area, some really focus on academics, where really play based, in my pediatrician opinion, play based and social/ emotional experience is what you really need to get a good start in kindergarten. Did you want to comment, Dr. Daire? Mr. Daire. I just wanted to add that we are looking at that in Virginia also with some folks from UVA, and we do have a commission that is exploring that at the State level. One of the things that we are doing at VCU, you know, particularly as an urban-serving public research university, we have a child development center within our school of education. And one of the ways that we are looking to expand and to hopefully develop a model to where we can collaborate with the community, collaborate with the school system, and to be able to provide this high-quality, early childhood development, which has a training component for our students and be able to have children from some of our urban high-needs communities so that we can work together. And I think you will find that many universities across the country have child development centers, some are affiliated with their colleges and schools of education. I think there is some rich opportunities there for collaboration. Ms. Schrier. Fantastic. Thank you. I had another question probably also for you two, although anybody is welcome to opine. We talked about the importance of having effective teachers in the classroom, and research from the Wallace Foundation shows that the most important in ensuring that a school has great teachers who actually stay teachers in the classroom is effective leadership and principals, and you were talking about principals a moment ago. Despite this demonstrated importance, there is limited opportunities to provide aspiring principals with Federal support. Are there any programs or opportunities that could be expanded to include aspiring principals or principals already in place? Mr. White. Well, I will just say briefly I think that the best way to do that is to not have separate systems of teacher development and leader development. Effectively, they should be part of one continuum, and Title II both in the higher education environment or in the K-12 environment could support both. Ms. Schrier. Thank you. Any other comments? No. Thank you. Mr. Daire. I was going to say the same thing. So I think within TQP, I think there is an opportunity there to really support principal residency programs. Ms. Schrier. Fantastic. Thank you all very much. Appreciate it. Mrs. Davis. Thank you very much. And I think we have basically come to almost closing the hearing, but I wanted to also ask a question. I am going to give myself five minutes, and then we will sum up. And thank you very much for being here and for all of your time and expertise. You know, what we know--and we are obviously here wanting to understand the Federal role. And to one degree or another, sometimes, you know, people question whether there should be a Federal role, that the local and State jurisdictions have so much more investment on many levels and certainly in terms of knowing best the schools, the communities, et cetera. But I did want to talk about Title II and ask you to help us out with that at this point again. You have spoken to many, many different issues, and we are greatly appreciative of that, but could you--and I will start with Dr. Daire--help us to sort of flush out what is it, as we reauthorize, that you would really like Title II to represent? It is sort of the Federal breather, in many ways, because that is the one place that the focus on teacher preparation and certainly on school leadership exists. So what should that look like, and specifically in terms of the reporting requirements, what kind of data should be collected? What do you think is important that we can then build on and know that we have arrived, partly arrived, or dismally deficient? What would you like to see, Dr. Daire, and we will ask everybody? And you can opine on should there be a strong Federal role or not. Mr. Daire. Sorry. I do think there needs to be a strong Federal role. Almost all States are having a teacher shortage. We can look at the data in terms of how the U.S. is performing compared to other countries on various educational matrices, and we know that we are not succeeding in educating all students. We have to do a better job of educating students at the bottom 50 percent socioeconomic level, poor students in urban and rural areas, and underrepresented minority students. So I do think that the Federal Government really does need to take a role, particularly even when we look at STEM and the need for more folks in STEM professions to replace individuals who are in national security. So I think it is a critically important decision. I think we need to expand TQP. I think we need to bring it back to the level of funding when it was $300 million, and I think it is going to be important to make sure that we have good data reporting on job placement, retention, and student growth on programs that supported by TQP so that we can have those measurable outcomes to support the program. Mrs. Davis. Thank you. And, Mr. White, I know you expressed earlier that you didn't think Title II was as effective or as it can be. What would you change? Mr. White. I would do two things. First, I would make the funding an attempt to catalyze change at a systems level rather than simply at a program or institutional level. Right now, it goes to fund individual partnerships. It doesn't look at a whole system. States and the higher ed and K-12 environment manage the whole system. States should play a role in the formulation of that plan. And secondly, the data required are both cumbersome but also just obscure. The number of IHEs for every K-12 student, for example, not a data point that drives any change. You should be demanding simple, outcomes-oriented results of comprehensive improvement plans, and right now, Title II does not do either thing. Mrs. Davis. Thank you. Ms. McManus? Ms. McManus. I definitely think Federal Government should play a role at the policy level, but that the voice of local teachers and leaders has got to stay at the forefront of those decisions. Title II has been instrumental in our district in supporting teacher development, in supporting leader development, and we have explained that it is a continuum. It is both at the preservice level and on the job. I think, when it comes to professional development, which is what Title II funds so greatly, you have to actually first see the implementation. Implementation after you have learned something new takes time and takes support. So the roles that are in our schools to provide that regular support to make sure that those newly learned skills actually come to fruition in the classroom, all of that takes funding, and then you can measure what were the outcomes of that on student outcomes. So I think we definitely have to hold folks accountable to these dollars, but I also think we need to allow local decision makers to have input, but also have some type of continuity across States. Mrs. Davis. Thank you. Mr. Brosnan. Mr. Brosnan. Thank you. I would agree with my colleague, Ms. McManus, that I think any funding from the Federal Government in the role of the Federal Government, especially in terms of Title II, it opens the door for locals to consider the type of timely and important professional development that their teachers need. Mrs. Davis. Thank you. Thank you very much. Actually, it was good to hear that there are ways to improve it, not to get rid of it, if I am hearing everybody correctly. Thank you very much. I wanted to move now quickly to a little bit of boilerplate here, and also, I want to remind my colleagues that pursuant to committee practice, materials for submission for the hearing record must be submitted to the Committee Clerk within fourteen days following the last day of the hearing, preferably in Microsoft Word format. The materials submitted must address the subject matter of the hearing and only a Member of the committee or an invited witness may submit materials for inclusion in the hearing record. Documents are limited to 50 pages each. Documents longer than 50 pages will be incorporated into the record by an internet link that you must provide to the Committee Clerk within the required time frame. Please recognize that years from now, that link may no longer work. I wanted to submit, with unanimous consent, the RAND report on principal pipelines, for the record, which I believe is a very important study that Ms. McManus particularly spoke to. [The information follows:] Principal Pipelines: https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/ pubs/research--reports/RR2600/RR2666/RAND--RR2666.pdf Mrs. Davis. I certainly want to thank all of our witnesses for their participation. We know how invaluable your comments have been today, the work that you have done, the experience that you have had over the years and how you embody that to present to us today. The hearing record will be held open for four days in order to receive any of your responses. If you would like to elaborate on anything that you said today, particularly the role of the Federal Government in Title II which helps us with the reauthorization, we would certainly be very supportive of that. And I want to remind my colleagues that pursuant to committee practice, witness questions for the hearing record must be submitted to the Majority Committee Staff or Committee Clerk within seven days. The questions submitted must address the subject matter of the hearing. And with that, I want to recognize the distinguished Ranking Member Allen for his closing statement. Mr. Allen. Well, realizing that you have been here almost a little over 3 hours, thank you. Appreciate you taking this time to come and share with us. Thank you so much for what you do for this country and for young people. It is critically important that we figure out a way to deal with these issues. One of the things that I was--it is a couple of hearings ago that we put--we put a graph on that board behind you, where the cost of educating young people has doubled since the 1990s, but teachers' salaries have been flat. So something's not right in the way we are doing things out there, so I believe in bottom up. I believe you can fix it. So please, please tell us what you need from us to fix it. And, you know, going to Title II, you know, if this program is going to continue, we need to ensure that States have the opportunity to pursue a system of improvements process rather than continuing a program that has had very limited impact, and we got to change that. Thank you so much, and I yield back. Mrs. Davis. Thank you. And I wanted to just state as well that as we work to reauthorize HEA, we want to be sure that we are educating our students, of course, for success, preparing and retaining the highest quality teacher workforce, possibly. We know that is a team effort. It requires high-quality teacher preparation programs, adequate support from well-prepared school leaders, and Federal support to pay off student loans as well. I certainly look forward to working with my colleagues to ensure that our educators have the support and the resources necessary to lead successful, fulfilling careers, and empower our students to reach their full potential. And with that, if there is no further business, the meeting is adjourned. Thank you all very much. [Additional submissions for the record by Mr. Sablan follow:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [Questions for the record and their responses follow:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [Whereupon, at 1:05 p.m., the subcommittees adjourned.] [all]