[House Hearing, 116 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] PREVENTING GUN VIOLENCE: A CALL TO ACTION ======================================================================= HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME, TERRORISM, AND HOMELAND SECURITY OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION ---------- WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 6, 2019 ---------- Serial No. 116-2 ---------- Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 45-132 PDF WASHINGTON : 2021 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY JERROLD NADLER, New York, Chair MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania, Vice-Chair ZOE LOFGREN, California DOUG COLLINS, Georgia, Ranking SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas Member STEVE COHEN, Tennessee F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, Jr., HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., Wisconsin Georgia STEVE CHABOT, Ohio THEORDORE E. DEUTCH, Florida LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas KAREN BASS, California JIM JORDAN, Ohio CEDRIC L. RICHMOND, Louisiana KEN BUCK, Colorado HAKEEM S. JEFFRIES, New York JOHN RATCLIFFE, Texas DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island MARTHA ROBY, Alabama ERIC SWALWELL, California MATT GAETZ, Florida TED LIEU, California MIKE JOHNSON, Louisiana JAMIE RASKIN, Maryland ANDY BIGGS, Arizona PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington TOM McCLINTOCK, California VAL BUTLER DEMINGS, Florida DEBBIE LESKO, Arizona J. LUIS CORREA, California GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania SYLVIA R. GARCIA, Texas BEN CLINE, Virginia JOE NEGUSE, Colorado KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota LUCY McBATH, Georgia W. GREGORY STEUBE, Florida GREG STANTON, Arizona MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania DEBBIE MUCARSEL-POWELL, Florida VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas PERRY APELBAUM, Majority Staff Director & Chief of Staff BRENDAN BELAIR, Minority Staff Director ------ SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME, TERRORISM, AND HOMELAND SECURITY KAREN BASS, California, Chair VAL DEMINGS, Florida, Vice-Chair SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas JOHN RATCLIFFE, Texas, Ranking LUCY McBATH, Georgia Member THEORDORE E. DEUTCH, Florida F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, Jr., CEDRIC RICHMOND, Louisiana Wisconsin HAKEEM JEFFRIES, New York STEVE CHABOT, Ohio DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas TED LIEU, California TOM McCLINTOCK, California MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania DEBBIE LESKO, Arizona DEBBIE MUCARSEL-POWELL, Florida GUY RESCHENTHALER, Pennsylvania STEVEN COHEN, Tennessee BEN CLINE, Virginia W. GREGORY STEUBE, Florida JOE GRAUPENSPERGER, Chief Counsel JASON CERVENAK, Minority Counsel C O N T E N T S ---------- Wednesday, February 6, 2019 Page OPENING STATEMENTS The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Chairman of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of New York........................... 1 The Honorable Doug Collins, Ranking Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Georgia........................ 3 WITNESSES Aalayah Eastmond, Senior at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, Coral Springs, Florida Oral Testimony................................................. 8 Prepared Statement............................................. 10 Savannah Lindquist, Student at Old Dominion University, Norfolk, Virginia Oral Testimony................................................. 12 Prepared Statement............................................. 14 Diane Latiker, Founder/President, Kids Off the Block, Chicago, Illinois Oral Testimony................................................. 15 Prepared Statement............................................. 16 Dr. Joseph V. Sakran, Associate Chief, Division of Acute Care Surgery, Director, Emergency General Surgery, Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, Maryland Oral Testimony................................................. 16 Prepared Statement............................................. 18 Maj. Sabrina Tapp-Harper, Commander, Domestic Violence Unit, Baltimore City Sherriff's Office, Baltimore, Maryland Oral Testimony................................................. 22 Prepared Statement............................................. 23 Chief Art Acevedo, Chief of Police, Houston Police Department, Houston, Texas Oral Testimony................................................. 25 Prepared Statement............................................. 27 Dr. Joyce Lee Malcolm, Professor of Law Antonin Scalia Law School, Arlington, Virginia Oral Testimony................................................. 41 Prepared Statements............................................ 42 Robyn Thomas, Executive Director, Gifford's Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, San Francisco, California Oral Testimony................................................. 43 Prepared Statement............................................. 45 LETTER, MATERIAL, ARTICLES SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD Letter from Fred Guttenberg, submitted by the Honorable Theodore E. Deutch, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Florida for the record. 76 Letter from Tony Montalto, President, Stand with Parkland, The National Association of Families for Safe Schools submitted by the Honorable Theodore E. Deutch, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Florida for the record......................................... 79 Letter from Patricia Oliver, Parkland, Florida, submitted by the Honorable Theodore E. Deutch, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Florida for the record......................................... 81 Letter from Prosecutors Against Fun Violence, submitted by the Honorable Mary Gay Scanlon, Vice-Chair, a Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Pennsylvania for the record..................................................... 88 Letter from the Honorable Ayanna Pressley, a Member of Congress from the State of Massachusetts submitted by the Honorable Mary Gay Scanlon, Vice-Chair, a Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Pennsylvania for the record........ 90 Letter from the Mayor Martin J. Walsh, City of Boston, Massachusetts submitted by the Honorable Mary Gay Scanlon, Vice-Chair, a Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Pennsylvania for the record........................... 92 Report from EVERYTOWN UNCHECKED, over 1 Million on Line Firearm ADS, No Background Checks Required submitted by the Honorable Mary Gay Scanlon, Vice-Chair, a Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Pennsylvania for the record........ 94 Article from the Washington Post, ``It's time to bring back the assault weapons ban, Gun violence experts say,'' submitted by the Honorable David Cicilline, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Rhode Island for the record.......................................... 104 Article from the Atlantic, ``Why Can't the U.S. Treat Gun Violence as a Public-Health Problem,'' submitted by the Honorable David Cicilline, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Rhode Island for the record.......................................... 107 Article from the New York Times, ``Wounds from Military-Style Rifles? `A Ghastly Thing to See' ,'' submitted by the Honorable David Cicilline, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Rhode Island for the record................................................. 110 Article from Vox, ``America's unique gun Violence problem, explained in 17 maps and charts,'' submitted by the Honorable David Cicilline, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Rhode Island for the record................................................. 118 Article from The Hill, ``Orders to seize guns from prohibit byers at 10-year high: Report,'' submitted by the Honorable David Cicilline, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Rhode Island for the record......................................................... 137 Letter from Joyce Lee Malcolm, Patrick Henry Professor of Constitutional Law and Second Amendment, Antonin Scalia Law School George Mason University referencing for the record sexual victimization reported by adult correctional authorities, submitted by the Honorable Hakeem Jeffries, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of New York for the record............. 146 Form 990 from the NRA Foundation for the years 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 & 2016, submitted by the Honorable Hakeem Jeffries, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of New York for the record............. 147 Report from Greg Ridgeway, Ph.D., Deputy Director National Institute of Justice, ``Summary of Select Firearm Violence Prevention Strategies,'' submitted by the Honorable Kelly Armstrong, a Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of North Dakota for the record........................... 246 Artical from Hargarten et al. ``Gun Violence: A Biopsychosocial Disease,'' submitted by the Honorable Cedric Richmond, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Louisiana for the record..................... 262 Report from Pennsylvania State Police Trooper, Instant Check System Firearms, submitted by the Honorable Madeleine Dean, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Pennsylvania for the record......... 280 Report from UC Davis Health Study, ``The Study Does Not Find Population-Level Changes in Firearm Homicide or Suicide Rates in California 10 Years After Comprehensive Background Check and Violent Misdemeanor Policies Enacted,'' submitted by the Honorable Andy Biggs, a Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Arizona for the record............. 300 Study from John Hopkins University--UC-David ``Correction to: Association Between Firearm Laws and Homicide in Urban Counties,'' submitted by the Honorable Ted Lieu, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of California for the record.................... 304 Study from John Hopkins University ``Effects of the Repeal of Missouri's Handgun Purchaser Licensing Law on Homicides,'' submitted by the Honorable Ted Lieu, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of California for the record......................... 311 Study from New York-Presbyterian/Weill Cornell Medical Center ``Restrictive State Firearm Laws Correlated to Fewer Firearm Homicides, Suicides,'' submitted by the Honorable Ted Lieu, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of California for the record........... 322 Article from Duke University ``Editor's Note,'' submitted by the Honorable Ted Lieu, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of California for the record................................................. 324 APPENDIX Statement of Whip Steve Scalise, submitted by the Honorable Doug Collins, Ranking Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Georgia, for the record........................... 330 Letter from Savannah Lindquist, Florida, submitted by the Honorable Val Demings, Vice-Chair of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Florida for the record..................................................... 332 Statement of Amnesty International USA, submitted by the Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of New York for the record............ 334 ANSWERS OF QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD Response to Questions from Dr. Joyce Lee Malcolm, Professor of Law Antonin Scalia Law School, Arlington, Virginia, submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Texas for the record and the Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of New York for the record..................................... 350 Response to Question from Dr. Joseph V. Sakran, Associate Chief, Division of Acute Care Surgery, Director, Emergency General Surgery, Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, MD, submitted for the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member of the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security from the State of Texas for the record........................................... 351 PREVENTING GUN VIOLENCE:. A CALL TO ACTION ---------- Wednesday, February 6, 2019 House of Representatives Committee on the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security Washington, DC The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:05 a.m., in Room 2141, Rayburn Office Building, Hon. Jerrold Nadler [chairman of the committee] presiding. Present: Representatives Nadler, Lofgren, Jackson Lee, Cohen, Johnson of Georgia, Deutch, Bass, Richmond, Jeffries, Cicilline, Swalwell, Raskin, Jayapal, Correa, Scanlon, Garcia, Neguse, McBath, Stanton, Dean, Mucarsel-Powell, Escobar, Lieu, Demings, Collins, Chabot, Gohmert, Gaetz, Johnson of Louisiana, Biggs, McClintock, Lesko, Reschenthaler, Cline, Armstrong, and Steube. Democratic Staff Present: Joe Graupensperger, Chief Counsel, Crime Subcommittee; Ben Hernandez-Stern, Counsel, Crime Subcommittee; Milagros Cisneros, Detailee, Crime Subcommittee; Veronica Eligan, Professional Staff; David Greengrass, Senior Counsel; Susan Jensen, Parliamentarian. Republican Staff Present: Brendan Belair, Staff Director; Bobby Parmiter, Deputy Staff Director and Chief Counsel; Jan Furo, Parliamentarian and General Counsel; Jason Cervanek, Counsel, Crime Subcommittee. Chair Nadler. The Judiciary Committee will come to order. Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare recesses of the Committee at any time. We welcome everyone to this morning's hearing on Preventing Gun Violence: A Call to Action. I will now recognize myself for an opening statement. The epidemic of gun violence in this country is a national crisis and an international embarrassment. In 2017, nearly 40,000 Americans lost their lives because of guns. In fact, every day in America, on average, 34 people are murdered with a firearm, and more than 183 people are injured in an attack. While no other country in the industrialized world would tolerate such statistics--in fact, gun deaths in most of those countries barely crack triple digits annually--in the United States it is accepted as a grim reality. By comparison, in 2011 for example, the United Kingdom had 146 deaths due to gun violence; Denmark, 71; Portugal, 142; and Japan, 30. Last year in the United States, almost 40,000. A 2016 study in the American Journal of Medicine found that, compared to 22 other high-income countries, the gun- related murder rate in the United States was 25 times higher. The common factor in all these other countries is that they have stronger gun laws. Our country, however, is awash in guns, and we have the shameful death toll to show for it. Despite the obvious need to address the scourge of gun violence, Congress, for too long, has done virtually nothing. But now we begin a new chapter. Today we will hear from a broad array of witnesses representing diverse perspectives on the issue of gun violence. They will help educate us on the scope of the problem, and they will inform our consideration of various legislative options so that we may, at last, take real action to address this crisis. As we conduct this hearing today, we are reminded that one year ago next week, 17 students and staff were shot to death, and 17 others were injured at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. We have with us Fred Gutenberg, who is the father of one of the students who were killed at Parkland High School, and we have some others from Parkland with us today, too. This horrible incident was just one in an ever-increasing series of mass shootings that have shocked the Nation in recent years. Mass shootings are just one way in which the problem of gun violence is manifested in our nation. Every day, guns are used in suicides, domestic violence incidents, gang violence, and in so many other tragedies. Gun violence impacts all our communities: Rural, urban, and suburban. No place is immune from its reach, including our homes, our streets, our schools, even our places of worship. Clearly, we must change our approach to combatting gun violence. As challenging as this problem is, however, we do have the ability to address it, and to make our citizens safer. What we have lacked in recent years is the political will. We should remember that the Second amendment does not prevent the government from enacting legislation to prevent gun violence. As even Justice Scalia acknowledged in his 2008 opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller, an opinion that upheld an individual's right to possess a firearm, in his opinion for the Court he wrote, ``Like most rights, the right secured by the Second amendment is not unlimited.'' While Congress has done almost nothing in recent years to address gun violence, citizens across the country have been organizing and demanding action. As a result, several states have strengthened their gun laws. I am disappointed that in his lengthy State of the Union address last night, President Trump did not see fit to even mention the need to protect our citizens against gun violence. But it is evident from the energy and the crowd in this room, as well as the millions of people across the country fighting for sensible gun safety laws, that the public is demanding national legislation, too. I am particularly heartened by the mobilization of so many students and young people, from diverse backgrounds and from every part of our nation, who are now at the forefront of this effort. They join mothers and fathers in calling on us to do more to create a future in which children do not fear being shot in school or on their streets. We have also seen many in our medical community adding their voices to the movement, shocked at how often they must treat gunshot victims, devastated by the need to console the families of those who lost their lives to gun violence, and stunned by Congress' failure to address this problem. It is now time for Congress to begin answering these demands, and that is why we are holding this hearing today. We have a large panel of witnesses, and we wish we could have included even more people who wanted to testify, including current Members of Congress who have worked very hard on this issue in recent years. Today, however, is just the beginning of our discussion of these issues, and I hope to hear from many other people as the Committee continues its work on this important topic. I want to note that we have with us in the audience today several survivors of gun violence, as well as family Members of those whose lives were lost to gun violence. I have already mentioned one such person. We thank you all for your courage and for attending today. Congressman Mike Thompson, Chair of the House Gun Violence Prevention Task Force, is here as well. He has worked tirelessly to bring attention to this issue and is the author of H.R. 8, the bipartisan Background Check Act, which now has 229 co-sponsors, an absolute majority of the House. For too long, Congress has ignored the epidemic of gun violence that plagues this country. After a particularly heinous mass shooting, we sometimes pause to offer a moment of silence to honor the victims, but we do not need another moment of silence. We do not need more thoughts and prayers. We need a moment of action. Today's hearing is the first step towards that goal. I look forward to hearing from all our witnesses, and I now recognize the distinguished Ranking Member of the full committee, the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Collins, for his opening statement. Mr. Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all who have attended today, and for holding this hearing on gun violence in America. Any form of violence, with or without the use of a firearm, is a reason for concern, and it is our job to offer real solutions for families affected by criminal violence. It is good and right to reflect on the victims and their stories. What do their experiences have in common, and how can lawmakers respond to the factors fueling violent crime? America has witnessed too many events of mass violence in recent years, yet the common factors here are not related to background checks for private sales. Thomas Reed, a former Speaker of this House, said: ``One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils of this world are to be cured by legislation.'' I will take it a step further. Today, I think the greatest cruelty in the world is to tell people you will help them in their situation with legislation and then try to pass off legislation that would do nothing to fix the problems that you claim to fix. In legal terms, that is called fraud. When we understand what is going on, the evidence has shown, as was mentioned earlier--I appreciate the efforts of those who want H.R. 8 and many who have signed on, but similar gun control measures would not have prevented Columbine, San Bernardino, Charleston, or other tragedies. It actually indicates our problem today is that we are too far removed by the realities of violence, victimization, and murder. We are far too comfortable offering bills that constrain law-abiding citizens without protecting them from the people who mean them great harm. We are far too comfortable talking about tragedy without learning its clearest lesson. If we want to combat mass violence, we have to address the human factors actually driving it. This means acknowledging attempts to criminalize the Second amendment do nothing to address these complex factors that turn our attention to solutions that would. One of my first acts in Congress was to ask President Obama why Federal firearm prosecutions failed 35 percent under his Administration, while widespread violence continued to infect American communities. Chicago, for example, prosecuted only 25 Federal firearm crimes in 2011, and then saw 506 murders in 2012. It seems clear that if we are going to be in the business of writing new laws to prevent violence, we should at minimum commit to enforcing the laws we already have. Next door to Washington, Maryland illustrates how miserably gun control fails to prevent violence. Maryland requires universal background checks, bans assault weapons, restricts magazine capacity, and permits to purchase handguns, which then must be registered with the state. All these things the gun control advocates have asked for, but Baltimore consistently ranks among the top five cities for gun violence nationwide. Again, I implore my colleagues across the aisle to look at our cities and our schools and to respond in a meaningful way. We best honor victims of gun violence by looking at the evidence. Neither H.R. 8 nor any of the proposed gun control measures would have prevented a single mass shooting in the last 20 years. When we pull at the stories of tragedy without learning from them, we exploit the victims, Mr. Chair. In 1999, Columbine destroyed families in Colorado. In the weeks before, we knew that the shooters were psychopaths and had visually given threats, but nothing was done. Law enforcement knew; they failed to intercede. Virginia Tech, another issue where the murderer had been in voluntary committed outpatient health facilities, but that was never uploaded into NICS, and that was not done. If it had been, he would have never been able to purchase the firearm. A month prior to the Navy Yard shootings, just up the block from this room, the murderer filed a police report claiming he heard voices in his head. Almost a decade before the massacre, he was arrested for shooting out the tires of a man's vehicle. He was not prosecuted for the crime. A year ago this month, students in Parkland fell victim to a shooter who law enforcement and school counselors had recommended for mental evaluation in 2016. According to CNN, law enforcement received at least 45 calls about the shooter and his family, and among the calls was an anonymous tip that specifically said he threatened to attack the school, and another call to the FBI tip line. The information was never forwarded to the FBI's Miami field office, and law enforcement took no action. If we let these tragedies teach us, we see that we need to focus on mental health and missed opportunities. While we are careful to understand by no means are all of those who suffer from mental health illness violent, we can increase public safety by improving our approaches to mental health, our compassion and care for mental health, but we also have the opportunity to help law enforcement better respond. It is my hope that we will begin to look at this problem with a larger, more honest approach. The problems of the bill H.R. 8 are numerous, and if I were here, many in this audience and many of the witnesses here, my question would be to the sponsors and co-sponsors why they would give you a bill that is written and guts itself internally in the bill and will not work. These are the things that will affect mental health and safety. These are the areas that we need to work on. These are the things that we can continue to find common ground, at the same time not offering a palliative exercise to say here is something that will make you feel better but not help you in the end. With that, Mr. Chair, I do have one unanimous consent request, and that is the statement for the record by Republican Whip Steve Scalise. I will have to say also, Mr. Chair, that I am very concerned that Mr. Scalise, who everyone in this room knows was very publicly involved in a shooting last year, he wanted to come, and many times this Committee has offered Members the ability to testify and be a part, and then, as we have done in the past, leave. Mr. Scalise was denied that opportunity. I think that is wrong. Him having to put this into the record is something that should be addressed. It goes to the hearing that we are looking at right now. We are making it sound good, but in the end, those who come looking for answers do not find it in H.R. 8. With that, I yield back. Chair Nadler. I thank the gentleman. Without objection, the document will be entered into the record. Chair Nadler. I want to note for the record the presence of Congresswoman Robin Kelly of Chicago, who has been a champion of gun violence legislation. I want to note that the reason that Mr. Scalise--we did not have a separate panel for Members is because we had too many Members, not just Mr. Scalise and Mr. Thompson, Ms. Kelly and quite a few others, who would have wanted to testify, and we decided it is a debatable decision. We decided that rather than hear from a lot of our colleagues, who will have other opportunities to address this issue in Congress, we would rather hear from the witnesses. Mr. Collins. Mr. Chair, I understand, except the uniqueness of Mr. Scalise's testimony, being denied this voice is tragic for all who attend and who have been a part of that, especially from his perspective as a lawmaker who will be voting on and working with this issue. Just because he probably disagrees with the majority should not have been a reason to keep him out. Chair Nadler. Well, he was not denied because he disagrees. Majority Members decided we had to have a hard and fast Rule today, otherwise we would have been here all day with Members. In any event, that was the decision. I will now introduce today's witnesses. Our first witness is Aalayah Eastmond. She is a senior at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. She has advocated on behalf of young people and people of color who experience gun violence. She has also testified before the U.S. Senate and has participated in a number of forums on this subject. Savannah Lindquist is a student at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia, where she studies neuroscience. Savannah serves on the North American Executive Board of Students for Liberty and has publicly advocated for gun rights. She is also active in her local church and holds a number of leadership positions in student organizations at Old Dominion University. Diane Latiker is the President and Founder of Kids Off the Block. In 2003, she opened her Chicago home to youth who felt threatened by gun violence. Diane sold her own television to purchase computers to provide the young people seeking shelter in her home educational programs. People in her neighborhood fondly refer to her as Ms. Diane. In 2011, CNN named her as a Top 10 Hero of the Year. Dr. Joseph Sakran is an Assistant Professor of Surgery, Associate Chief of the Division of Acute Care Surgery, and Director of Emergency General Surgery at the Johns Hopkins Hospital. Dr. Sakran spends the majority of his time taking care of injured patients and performing both emergency and elective general surgery. Dr. Sakran completed his undergraduate degree at George Mason University, trained as a medic and firefighter at the City of Fairfax Fire and Rescue Department, and received his medical degree from Ben Gurion University Medical School for International Health in Ber Sheva, Israel. Major Sabrina Tapp-Harper commands the Domestic Violence Unit of the Baltimore City Sheriff's Office. She previously served for 26 years with the Baltimore Police Department, where she attained the rank of major. At the Baltimore Police Department, Major Tapp-Harper served in a variety of roles, from beat cop to commander. She holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Criminal Justice from Coppin State University, and a Master of Science Degree in Applied Behavioral Science from Johns Hopkins University. It is now my pleasure to recognize the gentle lady from Texas, Ms. Jackson Lee, so that she may introduce her constituent, Chief Art Acevedo. Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Chair, thank you. To the Ranking Member, thank you both for this hearing. Thank you to the witnesses. It is my pleasure and privilege to introduce the Chief of Police of the City of Houston, who began serving and was sworn in on November 30th, 2016. Chief Acevedo leads one of the major police departments of this nation, 5,200 sworn law enforcement officers, 1,200 civilian support personnel, with an annual general budget of $825 million, in the fourth, soon to be third largest city in the nation. The value of Chief Acevedo's policing is that he understands that it is police and community, police and people. He believes in good communication, that it is vital for successful community, and I can assure you and attest to the fact that Chief Acevedo is not a desk chief. He steadily works to encourage the bond between the community and its police department, whether it is a local parade, a barbecue, or a civic meeting. On behalf of the mayor, Sylvester Turner, he shows the face of policing. Although he has been a longstanding proponent of community policing, he applies that terminology to relationships, and he believes in relational policing, which is a major part as well of the Chief's position. He wants to meet and come in contact with each citizen. That is one of the reasons why devastating cases are solved, because citizens talk to the Chief. He is the first Hispanic to lead the HPD. Chief Acevedo brings a unique understanding of concerns of diverse communities in the City of Houston. He was born in Cuba. He was four years old when he came to the United States. He grew up in California, attended college there, and began his law enforcement career in the field as a field patrol officer in East Los Angeles with the California Highway Patrol. He rose through the ranks. One of the best ways of ascending to chief is to know your men and women, and he has recently, right before Houston, was the Chief of Police in Austin. We are very delighted that he is now the President of the Major Cities Chiefs. He is involved with the International Association of Chiefs of Police. He is married and is the father of three children. I am very pleased to say that even as we have suffered tragedies and shootings in our community, Chief Acevedo, who has been a stand-up chief and confronted these issues and said to the community that we are with you, I do want to offer to him again, to the officers that were shot last week, a wish for a speedy recovery, having visited them this past weekend. That is our collective wish of this committee. Mr. Chair, I conclude by welcoming Chief Acevedo and acknowledging one of his extended constituents. Ms. Rhonda Hart is here, and she is a mother of, sadly, a young lady, her very special daughter, who was shot and killed in the Santa Fe shooting in Houston, Texas. Chief Acevedo rushed to that scene even though it was outside the jurisdiction of Houston. He rushed to be of help. That is the kind of chief he is. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I yield back. Chair Nadler. Thank you. I thank the gentle lady. I will continue with our last couple of introductions. Dr. Joyce Lee Malcolm is the Patrick Henry Professor of Constitutional Law and the Second amendment at George Mason University's Antonin Scalia Law School. Dr. Malcolm holds a Bachelor's degree from Barnard College in my district, and a Master's of Arts and Doctorate from Brandeis University. Robyn Thomas is the Executive Director of the Giffords Law Center. She holds a Bachelor's degree from Duke University and a Juris Doctor degree from the University of Miami School of Law. We welcome all our distinguished witnesses and thank them for participating in today's hearing. Now, if you would please rise, I will begin by swearing you in. Raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief? Thank you. Let the record show the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Please be seated. Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Mr. Chair, a point of parliamentary inquiry. Chair Nadler. Yes, sir? Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. We had a conversation on the Floor last week, and I just noted you left out ``so help me God.'' Chair Nadler. Sorry. Do you want me to repeat the whole--I will repeat the whole thing. Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. I would love it. Thank you. Chair Nadler. Please stand up again. Let me repeat this oath. Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help you God? Thank you. Let the record show the witnesses answered in the affirmative. Thank you, and please be seated. Please note that each of your written statements will be entered into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, I ask that you summarize your testimony in 5 minutes. To help you stay within that time, there is a timing light on your table. When the light switches from green to yellow, you have 1 minute to conclude your testimony. When the light turns red, it signals your 5 minutes have expired. Ms. Eastmond, you may begin. TESTIMONY OF AALAYAH EASTMOND Chair Nadler, Ranking Member Collins, and other Members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be here to share my experience and perspectives on gun violence in America. My name is Aalayah Eastmond, a senior at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. While it is an honor to be here before you today, I am only here because of horrific events that have compelled me to be here. Next Thursday marks one year from the day that 17 of my fellow classmates and educators were shot and killed, 17 more injured. Many like me were fortunate enough to walk away with our lives, but we will never be free from the terror. Some will carry visible scars, but all of us are scarred emotionally for the rest of our lives. I was in my 4th period Holocaust History class, and we were presenting our projects on hate groups. I can never have imagined that my group partner, Nicholas Dworet, would have saved my life in moments to come. After our presentations, we began to hear loud pops. When the gunman shot into our classroom, Nicholas Dworet was in front of me. The gunman's bullets killed him and Helena Ramsay. As Nicholas fell, I matched his every movement and hid underneath his lifeless body as bullets riddled my classmates. I thought I was going to die. As I lay there, I begged God to please make it fast. When the shooter moved on to another classroom, I rolled Nicholas off me and placed his head on his arm so it wouldn't be touching the cold ground. My classmates pulled me behind a filing cabinet where I called my mom and my dad to say what I thought would be my last goodbyes. I told them how much I loved them and my brothers. I will never forget that day, what I saw, what I did, what happened to my classmates. I will never forget Nicholas Dworet, who in death protected me. He saved my life. The effect of the shooting did not end on February 14th. Days later, the stress from the shooting took such a toll on my mother's body that she experienced a miscarriage. Gun violence ends thousands of lives every year. It is an epidemic that extends well beyond high-profile shootings. My family knew this long before Parkland. Fifteen years ago in Brooklyn, New York, my uncle Patrick Edwards was shot in the back and killed. He was just 18, with his whole life ahead of him. I ask that you give my generation the chance he never had. Minority communities bear the heaviest burden of gun violence. We know this as a fact. Weeks ago, a new report showed that the life expectancy for African Americans has been reduced by four years, on average, because of gun violence. This report did not show me anything I did not already know. Gun violence is an everyday occurrence, and the vast majority of affected communities are minority. We must stop the supply of crime guns, and we must also ensure that there is comprehensive criminal justice reform to address the structural inequalities in the system. I am here to tell you a simple truth: gun violence is such an epidemic that anyone, anywhere, at any time can be affected, rich or poor, White or black, young or old. All Americans are at risk, and this is a side of America that none of us can or should take pride in. Since that horrific day, my classmates and I have been working tirelessly in support of sensible gun laws. I got involved with Brady Campaign's Team Enough, young people dedicated to strengthening our gun laws and engaging in communities most impacted by gun violence. I am just one of the hundreds of thousands of students that came out at the March for Our Lives demanding change. Our stories and voices must be heard on the most important issue facing our generation. We are the generation that will end gun violence. I implore you to pass legislation that will make us all safer. Today in America, anyone can go on the Internet, answer an ad, or go to a gun show and buy a gun with no background check required. This makes absolutely no sense. I urge you to expand Brady background checks by voting for H.R. 8, requiring checks for virtually any gun transaction. The original Brady law passed with strong bipartisan support, and this should too. The Protection in Lawful Commerce in Arms Act, also known as PLCAA, was passed by Congress 15 years ago. No other industry has this kind of protection from lawsuits, and it is time that Congress repealed this outrageous law. Extreme-risk laws allow family Members and law enforcement to petition a court to temporarily remove guns from people in crisis who pose danger to themselves or others. Congress should encourage more states to pass these laws. Assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines belong on the battlefield, not in our communities. My classmates and I have seen firsthand how uniquely lethal these weapons are. Congress should immediately reinstitute the Assault Weapons Ban. Congress should also close the Charleston loophole. The shooter who killed nine people in the South Carolina church shooting was able to buy a gun because his background check wasn't completed in three days. Most Federal checks take just minutes. Some take longer. Law enforcement needs more time to complete those checks. I also urge you to address the concerns of our Black and brown communities who are disproportionately affected by gun violence. Rather than listen to special interests, I ask you to listen to the nation's young people and the overwhelming majority of Americans who have had enough. We have had enough of gun violence in our schools, in our movie theaters, our places of worship, in nightclubs and restaurants, on our streets, and in our communities. Enough. We have all had enough. I hope you have had enough too and use the power that the people have vested in you to do what is right. Our lives depend on you. Our lives are in your hands. Thank you. [Applause.] [The statement of Ms. Eastmond follows:] STATEMENT OF AALAYAH EASTMOND Chair Nadler, Ranking Member Collins, and other Members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be here today to share my experience and perspectives on gun violence in America. My name is Aalayah Eastmond. I am a senior at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. While it is an honor to be before you today, it is only because horrific events have compelled me. Next Thursday will mark exactly one year from the day that 17 of my fellow schoolmates and educators were shot and killed, 17 more injured. Thousands more--like me--were fortunate to walk away with our lives that day but we will never be free of the terror. Some will carry visible scars, but all of us were scarred emotionally, for the rest of our lives. I was in my 4th period Holocaust history class. We were presenting our projects on hate groups found on college campuses. I could never have imagined my group partner Nicholas Dworet would've saved my life in moments to come. As we sat at our desks working on our computers after presenting our projects, we began to hear loud pops. When the gunman shot into our classroom, Nicholas Dworet was in front of me. The gunman's bullets hit and killed him and Helena Ramsay. As Nicholas fell, I matched his every movement and hid beneath his lifeless body as bullets riddled my classmates. I thought I was going to die. As I layed there, I begged God to please make it fast. When the shooter moved to another classroom, I rolled Nicholas off me and placed his head on his arm so it wouldn't be touching the cold ground. My classmates pulled me behind a filing cabinet where I called my mom and my dad and said what I thought would be my last goodbyes. I told them how much I loved them, and asked that they please tell my brothers the same. I was so petrified that I began hyperventilating. My classmates had to cover my face so the shooter wouldn't hear my cries and come back. I will never forget that day. What I saw. What I did. What I experienced. What happened to my classmates? I will never forget Nicholas Dworet who, in his death, protected me. He saved my life. The effects of this shooting did not end on February 14th. Days later, our family experienced another tragedy: the stress from the shooting had taken such a toll on my mother's body that she experienced a miscarriage. It is another painful, and permanent, reminder of that day that my family will endure the rest of our lives. Gun violence ends thousands of American lives every year-- it is a pervasive problem that extends well beyond high profile school shootings. My family knew this pain long before Parkland. Fifteen years ago, in Brooklyn, NY, my uncle Patrick Edwards was shot in the back and killed. He was just 18 and had his whole life ahead of him. I am asking you to give my generation the chance that he never had. Minority communities bear the heaviest burden of gun violence in this country. We know this as fact. Just a few weeks ago, a report was released showing that the life expectancy for African American men was reduced by four years, on average, because of gun violence. But this report didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. We have communities in this country where gun violence is an everyday occurrence, and the vast majority of those communities are majority minority. We have to do something to stop the gun violence that has become an every day threat in those communities, including stopping the supply of crime guns and we must ensure that there is comprehensive criminal justice reform to address structural inequalities in the system. I am here to tell you a simple truth. Our gun violence is now such an epidemic that anyone, anywhere, at any time can be affected. Rich or poor, White or black, young or old. All Americans are at risk, and that is an America in which none of us can or should take pride. Since that horrible day, my classmates and I have been working tirelessly in support of sensible gun laws. I chose to get involved with the Brady Campaign's Team ENOUGH, a group of young people dedicated to strengthening our nation's gun laws and engaging in communities most impacted by everyday gun violence. I am just one of hundreds of thousands of students that came out at the March for Our Lives demanding change. We stand on the shoulders of local organizations and people that have been working on change for decades. We are all working to make sure our stories are told, and our voices are heard on the most important issue facing our generation. Our demand for sensible reforms crosses party lines, geographies, social classes, and racial divides. We are the generation that will end gun violence. I implore you and your colleagues to pass legislation that will make us all safer by strengthening our nation's gun laws. We must do all we can to avoid the tragedies we see every day in our Nation due to gun violence. Today in America, anyone can go on the internet, answer an ad, or go to a gun show and buy a gun with no background check required. This makes absolutely no sense. I urge you to expand Brady background checks by voting for H.R. 8, legislation requiring background checks for virtually every gun transaction. I know from working with the Brady Campaign that the original background check law passed with bipartisan support. This commonsense measure should enjoy similar support from every one of you on this Committee, since well over 90 percent of the public supports taking this action! The Protection in Lawful Commerce at Arms Act (PLCAA) contributes to gun violence by providing the gun industry with special protections at the expense of victims of gun violence. PLCAA removes incentives for the gun industry to adopt life- saving business practices and instead provides legal cover to irresponsible gun dealers who supply the criminal gun market. This small minority of gun dealers profits from irresponsible and often dangerous business practices with no accountability to their victims. Congress must take immediate action to repeal PLCAA. Extreme Risk Laws, already passed in several states, help protect people in crisis that pose a danger to themselves or others. These laws allow law enforcement to temporarily remove guns from people in crisis while also protecting their rights through due process in courts. Congress should pass legislation incentivizing more states to pass these life saving laws and providing funds for implementation and education. Assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines belong on the battlefield, not in our communities. Unfortunately, my classmates and I have seen first-hand the massive carnage that an assault weapon is uniquely capable of causing. Congress should immediately re-institute the assault weapons ban. Every year thousands of people deemed by law to be too dangerous to access guns get them because of what has become known as the Charleston loophole. Under federal law, if a background check isn't completed in three days, a dealer can legally sell the gun. Ninety percent of federal background checks take only a few minutes, but in thousands of cases three days is not enough time to complete a check, as was the case in the tragedy in Charleston, South Carolina. The shooter, who took nine innocent lives in the deadly church shooting, was sold a gun before law enforcement had time to fully research his disqualifying records. Many individuals who are sold guns before checks are completed are criminals or domestic abusers, and once we figure out guns were sold to these unlawful purchasers, we have to send law enforcement out to get the guns back, which puts them in harm's way. We need to give law enforcement enough time to finish the background check before someone can buy a gun. Gun violence affects all American communities, but not always equally or in the same way. I especially urge you to address the concerns of those living in our Black and brown communities who are disproportionately affected by gun violence. Rather than listen to special interests, I ask you to listen to the nation's young people and the overwhelming majority of Americans, who have had enough. We have had enough of the gun violence rampant in our schools, in our movie theaters, our places of worship, in nightclubs and restaurants, on our streets, and in our communities. Enough. We have all had enough. I hope you have had enough too and use the power the people have vested in you to do what is right. We are all depending on you. We the people, our lives depend on you. It is in your hands. Thank you. Chair Nadler. Let me just say this now. I appreciate the passion and the energy of the people here, but I must ask that you refrain from making noise or otherwise disrupting the proceedings on either side. Our witnesses and all the Members of the committee, on whichever side, deserve that. Thank you. Ms. Lindquist? TESTIMONY OF SAVANNAH LINDQUIST Ms. Lindquist. My name is Savannah, and I am a 24-year-old college student. I am also a daughter, a niece, and a friend. There is part of my identity, however, that I never expected to have. I am a sexual assault survivor. In the fall of 2016, I was living my dream. I had just begun my senior year of college. I was at my dream school with my dream major. I loved my job and was just months away from graduating college. I was so excited, especially as a first- generation college student. What started out as any normal day ended up becoming a nightmare. That night I was sexually assaulted. I will spare you the details, but it was the worst thing that has ever happened to me. I pray that none of you ever go through what I did, but I do know that this sort of thing seems like it can never happen to you. Before I was raped, I saw sexual assault as something that only happened to other people. It is no secret that sexual violence is prevalent on college campuses, but I took as many precautions as I could, and I tucked my concerns away in the far corners of my mind. After that night, I could no longer be naive. I had to come face to face with the harsh reality that there are terrible people in this world that do terrible things. Detectives Benson and Stabler did not swoop in to save me that night like they do on Law & Order SVU. Instead, I was left completely shattered, replaying the events of that night over and over again. Due to the trauma, I dropped out of my dream school during my senior year and moved back home to Virginia. It was the hardest decision I have ever had to make, but I knew in my heart it was what I had to do. I shut myself away from everyone and I spent my time hiding in my childhood bedroom. I gained 100 pounds, and my hair even began to fall out due to the stress. I am a gun owner, and I was one at the time. I even began safety training and target practice when I was 10 years old. Because of so-called commonsense gun control laws, I was left defenseless that night. In theory, yes, I could have broken the law and brought my firearm to college with me anyway, but I knew that that was not the right thing to do. I obeyed the law as a responsible gun owner, and it ended in me being raped. I am just one of countless examples of gun control benefitting assailants and making victims like myself sitting ducks. I am not telling you about my sexual assault to make you feel bad. To be clear, I do not want your sympathy. What I do want, however, is for you to at least consider stories like mine when you decide to advocate for laws that create additional physical and financial barriers to the right to self-defense. I could come up here and recite the Second Amendment, as could I recite statistics all day long. I could get up here and scream about how since 1950, 97.8 percent of mass shootings have occurred in gun-free zones. In this debate, few cares about the statistics; it is about emotion. That emotion is understandable. There are things in this world worth being angry about. Acts of pure evil and gross injustices of all kinds seem to surround us, and there is no doubt that we hurt as a nation. In the midst of our emotions, no matter how valid they are, we have to remember and come back to the facts, and the facts say this: H.R. 8 has the potential to make responsible law-abiding gun owners suddenly criminals in emergency situations that would thankfully end up as false alarms; or when transferring a firearm to one of their beloved family Members, like their step-child; and with all of this, H.R. 8 would not have stopped a single mass shooting in modern history. Requiring universal background checks adds yet another financial barrier to the right to self-defense, even though it is already a pricey thing to exercise Second amendment rights; and low-income individuals are at a higher risk of being the victim of violent crime. An analysis released by the University of Pittsburgh showed lawful gun owners commit less than a fifth of all gun crimes. Finally, three separate 2018 studies found zero evidence that universal background checks prevent gun death. I want to show you that there are real people with real stories where being allowed to legally have their firearm could have saved them. Gun owners are a diverse group. No, we are not all Republicans; and no, we are not all in the NRA. I am neither. I am a college student willing to bear her soul to the world if it means people think twice before enacting laws that restrict the right to a reliable means of self-defense. I once heard that when you are raped, you are split in two, but this allows you to come back twice as strong, and I could not agree more. I refuse to live in fear. Yes, I am a rape survivor, but the 9-millimeter that I carry on my hip allows me to stand tall, stay strong, and confidently say ``never again.'' More than anything, I want my ``never again'' to be a catalyst for other women's ``never going to happen.'' Thank you for your time. [The statement of Ms. Lindquist follows:] STATEMENT OF SAVANNAH LINDQUIST My name is Savannah and I am a 24-year-old college student. I am also a daughter, a niece, and a friend. There is part of my identity, however, I never expected to have; I am a sexual assault survivor. In the fall of 2016, I was living my dream. I had just begun my senior year of college. I was at my dream school, with my dream major. I loved my job and was just months away from graduating college. I was so excited to finish college, especially as a first-generation college student. What started out as any normal day ended up becoming a nightmare. That night I was sexually assaulted. I will spare you the details, but it was the worst thing that's ever happened to me. I pray that none of you ever go through what I did, but I do know that this sort of thing seems like it can never happen to you. Before I was raped, I saw sexual assault as something that only happened to other people. It's no secret sexual violence is prevalent on college campuses, but I took as many precautions as I could and tucked my concerns away in the far corner of my mind. After that night I could no longer be naive. I had to come face to face with the harsh reality that there are terrible people in this world that do terrible things. Detectives Benson and Stabler didn't swoop in to save me that night like they do in Law and Order: SVU. Instead, I was left completely shattered, replaying the events of that night over and over again. Due to the trauma, I dropped out of my dream school during my senior year and moved back home to Virginia. It was the hardest decision I've ever had to make, but I knew in my heart it was what I had to do. I shut myself away from everyone and spent my time hiding in my childhood bedroom. I gained 100 pounds, and my hair even began to fall out due to the stress. I am a gun owner and was one at the time. I even began safety training and target practice when I was 10 years old, but because of so called ``common sense'' gun control laws, I was left defenseless that night. In theory, I could have broken the senseless law and brought my firearm to college with me anyways, but I knew that wasn't the right thing to do. I obeyed the law as a responsible gun owner, and it ended with me being raped. I am just one of countless examples of gun control benefiting assailants and making victims sitting ducks. I'm not telling you about my sexual assault to make you feel bad. To be clear, I don't want your sympathy. What I do want, however, is for you to at least consider stories like mine when you decide to advocate for laws that create additional physical and financial barriers to the right to self-defense. I could come up here and recite the Second Amendment, as could I recite statistics all day long. I could get up here and scream about how since 1950, 97.8% of mass shootings have occurred in gun free zones, but in this debate, few care about the statistics--it's about emotion. But that emotion is understandable. There ARE things in this world worth being angry about. Acts of pure evil and gross injustices of all kinds seem to surround us, and there is no doubt that we hurt as a nation. But in the midst of our emotions, no matter how valid, we have to remember and come back to the facts. The facts say this: --LH.R. 8 has the potential to make responsible, law- abiding gun owners suddenly criminals in emergency situations that thankfully end up as false alarms [proposed 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(2)(D)] or when transferring a firearm to some of their beloved family Members, like their stepchild. And with all of this, H.R. 8 wouldn't have stopped a single mass shooting in modern history. --LRequiring universal background checks adds yet another financial barrier to the right to self-defense, even though it's already pricey to exercise Second amendment rights and low income individuals are at a higher risk of being the victim of violent crime. --LAn analysis released by the University of Pittsburgh showed lawful gun owners commit less than a fifth of all gun crimes. --LThree separate 2018 studies found zero evidence that universal background checks prevent gun deaths. I want to show you that there are real people with real stories where being allowed to legally have their firearm could have saved them. Gun owners are a diverse group. No, we're not all Republicans and no, we're not all NRA Members. I am a college student willing to bare her soul to the world if it means people think twice before enacting laws that restrict the right to a reliable means of self-defense. I once heard that when you're raped, you're split in two, but this allows you to come back twice as strong. I couldn't agree more. I refuse to live in fear. Yes, I am a rape survivor, but the 9 mm I carry on my hip allows me to stand tall, stay strong, and confidently say ``NEVER AGAIN.'' But more than anything, I want my ``never again'' to be a catalyst for other women's ``never going to happen.'' Chair Nadler. Thank you. Ms. Latiker? TESTIMONY OF DIANE LATIKER Good morning, Chair Nadler, Ranking Member Collins, Members of the Judiciary Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is Diane Latiker. I am the Founding Executive Director of Kids Off the Block, a community-based anti-violence and social justice advocacy organization founded in 2003, located on the far south side of Chicago known as the Roseland Community in the 2nd District of Illinois, represented by the Honorable Congresswoman Robin Kelly. I want to thank Congresswoman Robin Kelly for arranging this opportunity. Kids Off the Block was started in my home to provide a safe haven from the prey of gang recruitment and gun violence that youth and young adults were facing and continue to face every day when doing ordinary things in life, such as going to school. Since founding KOB, we have engaged over 3,000 children, youth, and young adults in programs that have been largely funded out of our pockets or generous donors, and with continuous sadness across the street from my home, we have built a memorial tribute to youth killed by violence. There are almost 800 stones currently, and we are over 400 behind, and there is no outrage, the promises in lives lost in Chicago to gun violence and to families who will never recover. No matter how hard I work, more stones will be added until Congress acts. I am here today to urge Congress to pass immediately meaningful gun reform legislation that I believe will begin to minimize how legally purchased guns are used illegally. On behalf of the children, youth, and families of Kids Off the Block, we recommend the following. One, close loopholes that allow purchases of guns without a background check and reselling of legally purchased guns to underage individuals. Two, strengthen Federal penalties against gun trafficking and straw purchases. The current patchwork of State laws allows guns to flow from adjacent states with relaxed gun laws into cities and states with tight gun laws. Three, Federal background checks on all gun purchases, including ammunition and sharing of guns, and ammunition purchases through a national database. Quite simply, no matter how many people KOB or other organizations reach, we will not be able to put an end to gun violence in our country without Congress passing meaningful legislation that keeps guns out of the wrong hands. On a personal note, and to conclude my testimony, for the past 15 years I have dedicated my life to taking the power of the gun out of the hands of Chicago's most vulnerable youth. I strive to reduce the traumatic effects of gun violence with the most powerful feeling I know, which is hope. I have accomplished this by providing a safe space in my own home to young people, ages 10 to 24. Opening my door to prevent hundreds of children I serve each year from being victimized by violence in an environment where the odds are already against them is the least, I can do to show them that their community cares. That is all I ask of you, to just care. Thank you, and I look forward to answering your questions. [The statement of Ms. Latiker follows:] STATEMENT OF DIANE LATIKER Good Morning. Chair Nadler, Ranking Member Collins, Members of the Judiciary Committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify. My Name is Diane Latiker, and I am the founding executive director of Kids off the Block, a community-based anti-violence and social justice advocacy organization founded in 2003, located on the far Southside of Chicago known as the Roseland community in the 2nd District of Illinois, represented by the Honorable Congresswoman Robin Kelly. I want to thank Congresswoman Kelly for arranging this testimony opportunity. Kids off The Block was started in my home to provide a ``safe haven'' from the prey of gang recruitment and gun- violence that youth and young adults were facing, and continue to face every day, when doing ordinary life things such as going home from school. Since founding KOB, we have engaged over 3,000 children, youth and young adults in programs that have been largely funded out of our pockets or generous donors. And, with continued sadness, across the street from our home, we have built a Memorial Tribute to youth killed by violence. There are almost 800 stones currently and we are over 400 behind. The promises of lives lost in Chicago to gun violence, and families who will never recover. No matter how hard I work, more stones will be added until Congress acts. I am here today to urge Congress to pass, immediately, meaningful gun reform legislation that I believe will begin to minimize how legally purchased guns are used illegally. On behalf of the children, youth and families of Kids Off The Block we recommend the following: 1. LClose ``Loop Holes'' that allow purchases of guns without a background check, and reselling of legally purchased guns to underage individuals; 2. LStrengthen federal penalties against gun trafficking and straw purchases. The current patchwork of State laws allows guns to flow from adjacent states with relaxed gun laws into cities and states with tight gun laws; and 3. LFederal Background checks on all gun purchases, including ammunition, and sharing of guns, and ammunition purchases through a national data-base. Quite simply: No matter how many people KOB or other organizations reach, we will not be able to put an end to gun violence in our country without Congress passing meaning legislation that keeps guns out of the wrong hands. On a personal note and to conclude my testimony: For the past 15 years I have dedicated my life to taking the power of the gun out of the hands of Chicago's most vulnerable youth. I strive to reduce the traumatic effects of gun violence, with the most powerful feeling I know, which is hope. I have accomplished this by providing a safe space in my home to young people from age 10 to 24. Opening my door to prevent hundreds of children I serve each year from being victimized by violence in an environment where the odds are already against them is the least I can do to show them that their community cares. That's all I ask of you, to just care. Thank you, and I look forward to answering your questions. Chair Nadler. Thank you. Dr. Sakran? TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH V. SAKRAN Chair Nadler, Ranking Member Collins, and other Members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be here today to share my experience and perspectives on firearm-related injury and death in America. I am not testifying on behalf of Johns Hopkins but rather in my role as a trauma surgeon at Johns Hopkins Hospital, a survivor of gun violence, and a board member of the Brady Campaign. I was born and raised in Fairfax, Virginia, just a stone's throw away from here. As the son of immigrants, my family was living out the American Dream, and in a single instant, our lives changed. A fight broke out not far from my high school, and someone pulled out a gun and shot indiscriminately. One moment I was a carefree, 17-year-old senior, and the next collateral damage as a 38-caliber bullet was ripping through my throat and tearing into my shoulder. I spent the next month at a hospital fighting for my life. Make no mistake about it: I am here today because of the medical professionals who treated me. The second chance inspired me to become a trauma surgeon and give other people that same second chance. As a trauma surgeon, I and my colleagues are uniquely positioned to understand and address this issue. Every day, we are the ones on the front lines caring for patients who suffer injuries from bullets. We are the ones trying to stop bleeding from pulverized tissue and torn flesh. We are the ones telling families that their loved ones are never coming home. We are the ones trying to deliver data-driven solutions with inadequate research funding. We are the ones that understand all too often that the best medical treatment from this crisis is often prevention. For many years, a debate about how we prevent firearm- related injury and death was one that Members of my profession were reluctant to broach. That time has come to an end. Some of us have been told that we should stay in our lane. Well, this is our lane, and doing nothing is not an option. If we do nothing and maintain the status quo, 1 million Americans will be shot in the next decade. Let me be clear: Firearm-related injury and death in America is not only a disease, it is a true public health crisis of the United States. Every day, 109 people die from gun violence, and over 240 people suffer injuries from bullet wounds. The mass shootings that we have all heard about have become too common and unfortunately capture less than 2 percent of the entire epidemic we face as a nation. Every day in cities like Baltimore, Philadelphia, Chicago, we have young Black men that are killed, and their stories often go untold. We need to recognize this is a multifaceted health problem requiring a diverse group of stakeholders, including but not limited to health care professionals, public health leaders, survivors, manufacturers, academia, gun owners, and, yes, the young people. We must develop a broad multi-disciplinary, multi-strategy system approach that is supported by good science and research. We have the best practices we can learn from. Look at motor vehicle crashes in the 20th century. We initially focused on the drivers. We then broadened that approach from who caused the crash to factors that lead to death and injury, and we invested in research. We developed solutions like seat belts and air bags and safer roads. Since then, we have seen fatalities per-mile-driven fall by 85 percent. This is the essence of the public health approach, a multi- sector, research-informed, evidence-based program and policies. So, in response, we developed safer cars and roads, and we saved lives. The American College of Surgeons Firearm Strategy Team, a group of surgeon leaders who are firearm owners, recently published a statement describing firearm injury prevention solutions consistent with a public health approach, further underlining that as Americans we have much more in common than we have that divides us, and there are ways to come together to prevent firearm-related injuries. Congressmen Mike Thompson and Peter King introduced a bipartisan background check expansion Act to H.R. 8 on the anniversary of former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords' near-fatal injury. The bill expands Brady background checks to cover all private firearm sales, including those at gun shows or over the Internet. Since the Brady law was implemented in 1994, it has blocked more than 3 million unlawful purchases. Other commonsense solutions that decrease injury and death include firearm injury prevention research, implementation of extreme risk protection orders, education on safe storage to end family fire, investing in safe technologies, expanding access to behavioral health services, and improving victim services. We have both the opportunity and the responsibility to comprehensively address gun violence as the true public health crisis that it is. This is not a Democrat versus a Republican issue. It is a uniquely American issue, and it is uniquely in each of your hands to help fix it. The America I am fighting for is one where parents no longer have to fear the phone call that my parents received, that the Parkland parents received, and literally hundreds of others in communities across this country are receiving every single day. As a trauma surgeon, I have to look into the eyes of these parents, and it is nothing less than heartbreaking. So, the medical community implores you, the time for action is now. There is no one solution to this complex health problem, which is why we must come together as a country, to build consensus and support and develop our research-informed, data-driven approach so that we can help you as our policymakers ensure the public safety of Americans across this great nation. Thank you. [The statement of Dr. Sakran follows:] STATEMENT OF JOSEPH V. SAKRAN Chair Nadler, Ranking Member Collins, and other Members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be here today to share my experience, and perspectives on firearm-related injury and death in America. I am not testifying on behalf of Johns Hopkins University, but rather my role as a trauma surgeon at Johns Hopkins Hospital, a survivor of gun violence and a board member of the Brady Campaign. Laying semi-conscious on the gurney, I could sense the frantic commotion of healthcare workers bustling around me in the trauma bay. Donned in protective equipment from head-to- toe, like a man on the moon, all I could see were the eyes of the trauma surgeon as he hovered over me. Those eyes reflected both intense concentration and fierce determination to save my life. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, but my memory of that face is worth a million. Only hours before, I had been a healthy 17-year-old student at a high school football game. One moment I was simply an innocent bystander, and the next I became collateral damage as a violent fight broke out after the game and a 38-caliber bullet ripped through my throat, lodging in my shoulder. Nearly unconscious at the time, I still can vividly see the expressions on the faces of the many people trying to help me that day. The chaos around me in the trauma bay filled me both with fear and awe--fear that I might die and awe at the fearless purpose of the medical personnel fighting to save my life. A prolonged hospital stay, and many operations, gave me a second chance. This inspired me to become a trauma surgeon and provide that same second chance for other people. As a trauma surgeon, I and my colleagues are uniquely positioned to understand and address this issue. Every day, we are the ones that are on the frontline of caring for patients who suffer injuries from bullets. We are the ones trying to stop bleeding from pulverized tissue and torn flesh. We are the ones telling families that their loved ones are never coming home. We are the ones trying to deliver data-driven solutions with inadequate research funding. And we are the ones that understand all too often that the best medical treatment for this crisis is prevention. For many years, the debate over how we prevent firearm- related injury and death was one that many Members of my profession were reluctant to broach. That time has come to an end. Some have told us to stay out of the debate and ``stay in our lane''--well, this is our lane, and doing nothing is not an option. And if we do nothing and maintain the status quo, 1 million Americans WILL be shot in the next decade. Firearm injury and death in America is not only a disease,\1\ but a public health crisis in the United States. Every day, an average of 109 individuals are killed and more than 240 people suffer injuries secondary to firearm violence.\2\ \3\ While the United States is a world leader in many arenas, we are failing when it comes to firearm injury prevention. Firearm-related injury and death is a public health problem creating a vast burden of disease across the spectrum of ages and socioeconomic groups in this country. Additionally, firearm-related violence has a substantial economic burden of over 229 billion dollars per year to the United States health care system.\4\ \5\ Most concerning, despite advances in trauma systems and health care capabilities, the fatality rate secondary to firearms has not significantly changed or improved.\6\ \7\ In 2017, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported 39,773 deaths from firearm injury. This accounts for 58% of all intentional injuries in the United States. Of these firearm-related deaths, 23,854 (60%) were suicides and 15,919 (40%) were homicides.\2\ \7\ These numbers are the highest that have been seen in the past 20 years. Since 1999, there has been a 17% increase in firearm-related intentional injury mortality rates, with 7,000 more suicide deaths secondary to firearms in 2017 compared to 1999.\2\ \8\ The mass shootings that we have become all too familiar capture less than 2% of the entire epidemic we face as a nation. Every day in cities like Baltimore, Philadelphia, and Chicago we have young Black men that are killed, and their stories often go untold. Despite the small proportion of the overall epidemic mass shootings are responsible for, in the United States mass shootings have been increasing in frequency since at least 2011. While the term ``mass shooting'' has different definitions among organizations, we define it as any firearm-related incident resulting in injury or death of 4 or more people. Semiautomatic weapons are commonly used in active shooter incidents resulting in more people being injured or killed.\9\ Recognizing we have a problem is essential, and this is a multi-faceted health problem requiring a diverse group of stakeholders including but not limited to healthcare professionals and organizations, public health leaders, survivors, manufacturers, academia, gun owners, and yes, young people. We must develop a broad multidisciplinary, multi strategy systems approach that is supported by good science and research. We have best practices that we can learn from. Look at motor vehicle crashes in the latter half of the 20th century, we initially focused on the drivers. We then broadened our approach from, ``who caused the crash'' to, ``factors that lead to death or injury.'' We determined that numerous fatalities were caused by crashing into trees, heads smashing into steering wheels, or being ejected from vehicles. We invested in research. We developed solutions like seat belts, air bags, and safer roads. Since then we have seen fatalities per mile driven fall by 85%. This is the essence of the public health approach: Multisector, research informed, evidence-based programs and policies. In response, we developed safer cars and roads, and we saved lives. The American College of Surgeons Firearm Strategy Team (FAST) work group, a group composed of surgeon leaders that are firearm owners, recently published a consensus statement\10\ describing firearm injury prevention solutions that is consistent with the public health approach. This is yet another demonstration that as Americans, we have much more in common than we have than that which divides us. The false narrative that exists throughout social media and other outlets attempt to polarize a discussion at a time when now more than ever we must be united. It is thought that the vastly different viewpoints that may exist around firearms have brought our Nation to a standstill and prevented improvement in violence and injury prevention. In 2015, a public opinion survey from the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research was conducted among gun- owners and non-owners. Both 84% of gun-owners and 84% of non- owners favored background checks for all gun sales. Additionally, 78% of gun-owners and 80% of non-owners favored preventing sales to people with temporary domestic violence restraining orders. The majority of both owners and non-owners also supported the release of data on which gun dealers sell the most guns used in crimes, requiring a license before buying a gun to verify identify, and temporarily removing guns from individuals who pose immediate threat of harm to self or others.\11\ A few weeks ago, Congressman Mike Thompson and Peter King introduced the Bipartisan Background Check Expansion Act (HR 8) on the anniversary of Congresswoman Gabby Giffords near fatal injury. The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, or ``The Brady Bill,'' was signed into law in 1993 by President Clinton and instituted background checks at federally licensed gun dealerships designed to prevent high-risk individuals from purchasing firearms. This bill instituted the FBI to run each firearm purchaser through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. Prohibited users include felons, fugitives, domestic abusers, and dangerously mentally ill individuals. Since the success of the Brady Bill and Brady Campaign, over 3 million attempts to purchase firearms have been prevented; about half of these blocked attempts were attempted purchases by felons.\12\ Background checks are a strongly evidence-based method to reduce firearm violence.\2\ In addition, this process is critical to ensuring appropriate individuals have access to obtaining firearms and avoiding sales or transfer of firearms to criminals or others who should not have access to these weapons. While the Brady Bill has been successful in limiting gun sales in federally licensed gun dealerships, a significant proportion of firearms are sold through non-licensed dealers that are not mandated to perform background checks.\13\ \14\ Currently, background checks are not required for guns sold at gun shows, online, or through private transfers. In total, these sales account for an estimated 6.6 million firearms.\14\ \15\ Another way to think about it is 1 in 5 (20%) gun sales take place with ``no questions asked'' resulting in thousands of guns going into the hands of people that shouldn't have them. We must also ensure federal investment for firearm injury prevention research, implementation of Extreme Risk Protections Orders, education on safe storage, firearm safety technology investment, expanded access to behavioral health services, and improving victim services that begin in the hospital, and expanding victim rights to bring recourse in the courts against gun manufacturers for their negligent acts. In 1996, Congress passed the Dickey amendment in the omnibus spending bill mandating that none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the CDC could be used to ``advocate or promote gun control.''\16\ In addition, in that same spending bill Congress stripped the CDC of 2.6 Million dollars, which happened to be the exact amount allocated in the prior year to firearm research. These actions severely limited research funding dedicated to firearm-related violence over the past two decades.\17\ In 2011, this was extended to include all federal agencies including the NIH.\18\ More recently, in 2013, President Obama signed an Executive Order permitting the CDC to study or sponsor research dedicated to firearm injury prevention.\19\ While this Executive Order created opportunities for funding injury prevention secondary to firearm-related injury and death, Congress has failed to appropriate the necessary funds to allow for research in this arena. This funding limitation has substantially impacted firearm- related violence research. Violent injury secondary to firearms is the most poorly addressed public health problem in the US and is drastically underfunded given its substantial burden of disease.\8\ One study compared the mortality and research funding of different disease states. The number of deaths from firearm violence and sepsis were nearly the same in 2014. However, when comparing funding, the aid dedicated to gun violence research was 0.7% that of sepsis and the publication volume was only 4%.\20\ Of all diseases compared in this study, firearm violence was the least researched cause of death.\20\ We have both the opportunity and responsibility to comprehensively address gun violence as the true public health crisis that it is. This is not a Democrat versus Republican issue. It's a uniquely American issue and it is uniquely in each of your hands to help fix it. The America I'm fighting for is one where parents no longer have to fear the phone call that my parents received, that the Parkland parents received, and literally hundreds of others in communities across this country are receiving every single day. As a trauma surgeon, I have to look into the eyes of these parents and it's nothing less than heartbreaking. The medical community implores you: The time for action is now. There is no one solution to this complex health problem, which is why we must come together as a country to build consensus and support and develop a research informed, data-driven, approach so that we can help you, as our policy-makers, to ensure the public safety of Americans all across this great nation. References 1. LHargarten S, Lerner EB, Gorelick, M, et al. Gun Violence: A Biopsychosocial Disease. West J Emerg Med. 2018;19(6):1-4. 2. LCenters for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Health Statistics. Underlying Cause of Death. 1999- 2017 on CDC WONDER Online Database, released December, 2018. Data are from the Multiple Cause of Death Files, 1999-2017, as compiled from data provided by the 57 vital statistics jurisdictions through the Vital Statistics Cooperative Program. Available at: http://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10.html. 3. LGani F, Sakran JV, Canner JK. Emergency Department visits for firearm-related injuries in the United States, 2006- 14. Journal of Health Affairs. 2017; 36(10):1729-1738. 4. LTasigiorgos S, Economopoulos KP, Winfield R, et al. Firearm injury in the United States: An overview of an evolving public health problem. J Amer Coll Surgeons. 2015; 221(6):1005- 1014. 5. LFollman M, Lurie J, Lee J, et al. The true cost of gun violence in America (2015). http://www.motherjones.com/ politics/2015/04/true-cost-of-gun- violence-in-america. 6. LGross BW, Cook AD, Rinehart CD, Lynch CA, Bradburn EH, Bupp KA, Morrison CA, Rogers FB. An epidemiologic overview of 13 years of firearm hospitalizations in Pennsylvania. J Surg Res. 2017; 210:188-195. 7. LTessler RA, Arbabi S, Bulger EM, et al. Trends in firearm injury and motor vehicle crash case fatality by age group, 2003-2013. JAMA Surgery. December 2018; doi:10.1001/ jamasurg.2018.4685. 8. LStewart RM, Kuhls DA, Rotondo MF, et al. Freedom with responsibility: A consensus strategy for preventing injury, death, and disability from firearm violence. J Am Coll Surg. 2018; 227:281-283. 9. LDe Jager E, McCarty JC, Hashmi ZG, et al. Lethality of civilian active shooter incidents with and without semiautomatic rifles in the United States. JAMA. 2018; 320(10):1-2. 10. LTalley CL, Campbell BT, Jenkins DH, et al. Recommendations from the American College of Surgeons Committee on Trauma's Firearm Strategy Team (FAST) Workgroup: Chicago Consensus I. J Am Coll Surg. 2018; 228(2):198-206. 11. LBarry CL, McGinty EE, Vernick JS, et al. Two years after Newton--public opinion on gun policy revisited. Preventative Medicine. 2015; 79:55-58. 12. LFrandsen RJ, Naglich D, Lauver GA, et al. Background checks for firearm transfers, 2010--Statistical Tables. Department of Justice. Bureau of Justice Statistics. 2013. 13. LMiller M, Hepburn L, Azrael D. Firearm acquisition without background checks: Results of a national survey. Annals of Internal Medicine. 2017; 166(4):233-239. 14. LCook PJ, Ludwig J. Guns in America: National Survey on private ownership and use of firearms. Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, National Institute of Justice Research in Brief; May 1997. www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf. 15. LWintemute GJ, Braga AA, Kennedy DM. Private-party gun sales, regulation, and public safety. NEJM. 2010; 363(6):508- 11. 16. LKellerman AL, Rivara FP. Silencing the science on gun research. JAMA. 2013; 309(6):549-550. 17. LHe K, Sakran JV. Elimination of the moratorium on gun research is not enough. The need for the CDC to set a budgetary agenda. JAMA Surg. 2018; doi:10.1001/jamasurg.2018.4211. 18. LConsolidated Appropriations Act 2023; PubL No. 112-74. http://www.gpo .gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-112pub174/pdf/PLAW- 112pub174.pdf. December 2011. 19. LPresidential Memorandum--Engaging in public health research on the causes and prevention of gun violence. January 16th, 2013. https://www.whitehouse .gov/the-press-office/2013/ 01/16/presdiential-memorandum-engagin-public- health-research-causes-and-pre-0. 20. LStark DE, Shah NH. Funding and publication of research on gun violence and other leading causes of death. JAMA. 2017; 317(1):84-86. Chair Nadler. Thank you. Major Tapp-Harper? TESTIMONY OF SABRINA TAPP-HARPER Thank you, Chair Nadler and Members of the House Judiciary Committee, for inviting me here to testify today. My name is Sabrina Tapp-Harper, and I am the Commander of the Domestic Violence Unit of the Baltimore City Sheriff's Office in Baltimore, Maryland. I am here today to talk about the dangers that gun laws impose on our communities, specifically for women and families who are victims of domestic violence. The data is clear: Victims of domestic violence are at increased risk of gun violence in this country. In the United States, women are 11 times more likely to be killed with a gun than women in comparable countries. Much of this fatal violence against women is committed by intimate partners. According to the FBI, almost half of the murders of women were committed by current or former husbands or boyfriends, 10 times as many as by a male stranger. According to the American Journal of Public Health, the presence of a firearm in the domestic violence situation increases the risk of a homicide for a woman by 500 percent. These numbers miss many of the murders committed by ex- boyfriends who are seldom accurately categorized and who may account for another 300 to 400 of the 1,000 intimate partners murdered each year. The Violence Policy Center found that a gun was the weapon used in over half of the murders in which the weapon was known. Dr. Jacqueline Campbell's research has shown that gun access by a bad actor is the single best predictor of whether a woman will be killed by him, increasing the risk of her murder by more than five-fold. Abusers also use guns to terrorize their victims. While commanding the Domestic Violence Unit of the Baltimore City Sheriff's Office, one petitioner directed deputies to an assault rifle that had been buried in the ground for over 10 years and was still fully operable when recovered. The respondent in this particular case was also Federally prohibited from owning firearms. Domestic abusers hide weapons in any place they can. I know of deputies directed by petitioners who have recovered hidden firearms in washing machines and air conditioning units as well. In a study of over 400 women in domestic violence shelters in California, two-thirds of the women who reported a firearm in their home said their intimate partner used a gun against them, with over 70 percent threatening to shoot or kill her, 5 percent actually shooting at her. That same study found that only 1 in 20 abused women who had access to a gun reported ever having used it in self-defense against her abuser. Another study found that among California handgun purchasers, women who had purchased guns had a 50 percent increased risk of homicide, all of which could be attributed to homicide by an intimate partner. Having access to a gun did not make these women safer. It is worth noting that mass shootings, those shootings involving the death of four or more people, disproportionately affect women. In an analysis of such shootings conducted by the research arm of Every Town for Gun Safety, in at least 54 percent of mass shootings, the shooter murdered or injured a current or former partner or family member, and most of these shootings took place in the home. Background checks and laws restricting domestic abusers from owning weapons appear to be effective. Another analysis of Every Town found that states with stronger gun laws, including states that require background checks on every gun sale, reported lower rates of intimate partner gun homicides of women than states with weaker gun laws. There is also evidence that State laws to strengthen firearm prohibitions against domestic abusers reduced intimate partner homicides. Law enforcement officers in this country are most often tragically killed in traffic-related incidents and domestic- related matters. Greater love hath no man than this that a man lay down his life for his friends. Those of us who do this important work each day need strong laws that restrict firearm access to the most dangerous based on the best available evidence and strong enforcement of existing laws. This would include policies like closing loopholes that exempt private gun sales and gun shows from background checks, ensuring that all states have laws restricting possession and gun sales to those subject to domestic violence restraining orders and domestic violence misdemeanors, ensuring that states with such laws are removing firearms when allowed, and strictly enforcing the law and amending Federal laws to include dating partners who research indicates perpetrate a substantial portion of intimate partner homicide of women. We all have a responsibility to Act on the facts supported by research data to establish legal parameters to keep us all safe. Thank you for inviting me here today to share my views on this critically important public safety issue. I am happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. [The statement of Ms. Tapp-Harper follows:] STATEMENT OF SABRINA TAPP-HARPER Thank you, Chair Nadler and Members of the House Judiciary Committee for inviting me here to testify today. My name is Major Sabrina Tapp-Harper, and I am the Commander of the Domestic Violence Unit of the Baltimore City Sheriff's Office in Baltimore, Maryland. I am here to today to talk about the dangers that weak gun laws pose on our communities, specifically for women and families who are victims of domestic violence. The data is clear: Victims of domestic violence are at increased risk of gun violence in this country. In the United States, women are 11 times more likely to be killed with a gun than women in comparable countries.\1\ Much of this fatal violence against women is committed by intimate partners. According to the FBI, almost half of murders of women were committed by a current or former husband or a boyfriend--ten times as many as by a male stranger.\2\ According to the American Journal of Public Health, the presence of a firearm in a domestic violence situation increases the risk of homicide for a woman by 500%.\3\ These numbers miss many of the murders committed by ex-boyfriends, who are seldom accurately categorized, and who may account for another 300-400 of the 1000 intimate partner murders each year. The Violence Policy Center found that a gun was the weapon used in over half of murders in which the weapon was known.\4\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ D. Hemenway and E.G. Richardson, ``Homicide, Suicide, and Unintentional Firearm Fatality: Comparing the United States with Other High-Income Countries, 2003,'' 70 Journal of Trauma 238-42 (2011), available at doi: 10.1097/TA.0b013e3181dbaddf. \2\ Bureau of Justice Statistics. Homicide Trends in the United States, 1980-2008. 2011. Washington, DC: Bureau of Justice Statistics. 2011 NCJ 236018. \3\ Campbell JC, Webster DW, Koziol-McLain J, et al. Risk factors for femicide in abusive relationships: results from a multisite case control study. American Journal of Public Health 2003;93:1069-97. \4\ Violence Policy Center. When Men Murder Women: An Analysis of 2015 Homicide Data--Females Murdered by Males in Single Victim/Single Offender. www.vpc.org. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Jacqueline Campbell's research has shown that gun access by a batterer is the single best predictor of whether a woman would be killed by him, increasing the risk of her murder more than five-fold.\5\ Abusers also use guns to terrorize their victims. While commanding the Domestic Violence Unit in the Baltimore City Sheriff's Office, one petitioner directed deputies to an assault rifle that had been buried in the ground for 10 years, and was still fully operable when recovered. The respondent in this case was federally prohibited from owning firearms. Domestic abusers hide weapons in any place they can. I know of deputies, directed by the petitioner, who have recovered hidden firearms in washing machines and air conditioning units. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \5\ Campbell, Webster, Koziol-McLain, et al. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- In a study of over 400 women in domestic violence shelters in California, two-thirds of the women who reported a firearm in their home said their intimate partner used a gun against them, with over 70% threatening to shoot or kill her and 5% actually shooting at her. That same study found that only 1 in 20 abused women who has access to a gun reported ever having used it in self-defense against her abuser.\6\ Another study found that among California handgun purchasers, women who purchased guns had a 50% increase in risk of homicide--all of which could be attributed to homicide by an intimate partner.\7\ Having access to a gun did not make these women safer. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \6\ Sorenson, SB and Wiebe, DJ. Weapons in the lives of battered women. American Journal of Public Health, 2004 94: 1412-1417. \7\ Wintemute, G; Wright, M.A.; Drake, C.M. (2003). Increased risk of intimate partner homicide among California women who purchased handguns, Annals of Emergency Medicine. 41(2), p. 281-283, 6. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is worth noting that mass shootings--those shootings involving the death of 4 or more people--disproportionately affect women. In an analysis of such shootings conducted by the research arm of Everytown for Gun Safety, in at least 54% of mass shootings, the shooter murdered or injured a current or former partner or family member, and most of these shootings took place in homes.\8\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \8\ Everytown for Gun Safety, Mass Shootings in the United States: 2009-2017. https://every townresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings- analysis/. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Background checks and laws restricting domestic abusers from owning weapons appear to be effective. Another analysis by Everytown for Gun Safety found that states with stronger gun laws, including the states that require a background check on every gun sale, reported lower rates of intimate partner gun homicides of women than the states with weaker gun laws.\9\ There is also evidence that State laws to strengthen firearm prohibitions against domestic abusers reduce intimate partner homicide. In multiple studies, researchers found that states with statutes restricting those under domestic violence restraining orders from accessing firearms experience fewer intimate partner homicides, driven by a reduction in homicides committed with firearms.\10\ \11\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \9\ Every town for Gun Safety, Guns and Violence Against Women: America's Uniquely Lethal Domestic Violence Problem. https:// everytownresearch.org/reports/guns-and-violence-against-women/. \10\ April M. Zeoli, et al., ``Analysis of the Strength of Legal Firearms Restrictions for Perpetrators of Domestic Violence and Their Association with Intimate Partner Homicide,'' American Journal of Epidemiology 187, No. 11 (2018). \11\ Vigdor ER, Mercy JA. Do laws restricting access to firearms bydomestic violence offenders prevent intimate partner homicide? Evaluation Review 2006; 30:313-46. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Law enforcement officers in this country are most often tragically killed in traffic-related incidents and domestic- related matters. Greater love hath no man this, that a man lay down his life for his friends . . . . Those of us who do this important work each day need strong laws that restrict firearm access to the most dangerous based on the best available evidence and strong enforcement of the existing laws. This would include policies like closing loopholes that exempt private gun sales and gun shows from background checks; ensuring that all states have laws restricting gun possession and gun sales to those subject to domestic violence restraining orders and domestic violence misdemeanors; ensuring that states with such laws are removing firearms when allowed and strictly enforcing the law; and amending federal laws to include dating partners, who research indicates perpetrate a substantial portion of intimate partner homicide of women. We all have a responsibility to Act on the facts, supported by research data to establish the legal parameters to keep us all safe. Thank you for inviting me here today to share my views on this critically important public safety issue. I am happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Chair Nadler. Thank you. Chief Acevedo? TESTIMONY OF ART ACEVEDO Good morning, Chair Nadler, Ranking Member Collins, and distinguished Members of Congress, especially Sheila Jackson Lee, who has not only been a champion of this issue for a long time but is actually my Congresswoman. I live in her district. Mr. Collins. Chief, can I just say, she does such an elegant job, you ought to take her everywhere for your introduction. [Laughter.] Chief Acevedo. Thank you. I think I will try that. Obviously, Congresswoman Garcia, who we have worked with for so many years at the State level, and Mr. Correa and others that we have worked with over the years. I speak today to all of you both as the Police Chief of Houston and President of the Chiefs Association, representing the largest police departments in the nation, where gun violence truly takes its greatest toll. I am also honored to speak for the U.S. Conference of Mayors and attach their Membership resolution, which was submitted yesterday. Mayors and Chiefs have formed an unprecedented alliance with others to address gun violence in our nation. On June 8th, I had the privilege to join the U.S. Conference of Mayors in Boston, along with Mayor Sylvester Turner of Houston and the President of the U.S. Conference of Mayors, President Steven Benjamin of Columbia, South Carolina, where they unanimously adopted our position paper on gun violence and reducing gun violence. I would like to introduce Laura Waxman, who is here today representing the nation's mayors. Laura, if you can wave. It is important to realize that a firearms policy is not a zero-sum proposition. We all urge that you let common sense guide you as you pursue the development of public policies that balance the long-adopted Second amendment rights of our fellow Americans with the need to combat the scourge of daily gun violence throughout our nation. This gun violence is arguably one of the greatest public health epidemics facing the Nation everyone in this room loves and serves. Chiefs of Police and Sheriffs join the victims in asking you to Act now to prevent one more death and bloodshed. We implore you to consider multiple steps and measures to curb the ongoing threat of gun violence. The universal background check, expanded mental health provisions, red flag legislation are measures that we know will work. The time is now to make sure that we get rid of the gaps and loopholes that defeat the purpose for which they were intended. Next week we have invited Members of Congress, I think Mr. Thompson, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee and others will be joining the Chiefs and the Sheriffs here in Washington to have a roundtable on this issue, and if you have not been invited, I would like to extend that invitation to all Members here today. We hope again that as this debate continues, that we realize that doing nothing is not acceptable, and while we really focus and the media focuses on the multitudes of the almost regular mass shootings in our country that the media covers, for every one of those, sons and daughters, our children, our family Members, our police officers, are being shot, killed, and maimed, and I would urge Congress to do something this term. It is our time to make a difference because our streets, our neighborhoods, are truly drowning in the blood of our victims and in the tears of their loved ones. At this moment in time, I would like to tell the young people from Parkland, Santa Fe and beyond, and the March for Our Lives, that the Chiefs are proud to stand with you. The future belongs to you, and we are here to help you secure it. Thank you very much. [The testimony of Chief Acevedo follows:] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMA Chair Nadler. Thank you very much, Chief. Professor Malcolm? TESTIMONY OF JOYCE LEE MALCOLM Dr. Malcolm. Thank you very much for inviting me to testify here before the committee. All of us are here today with the same goal: We want to increase public safety, and we want to protect the lives of the citizens of our country. The thing that divides us is how we feel we can best achieve that aim. The Supreme Court has explained in two landmark cases that the Framers of the Second amendment were clear about the solution to public safety. They have bequeathed to us, as individuals, the right to keep and bear those guns in common use for self-defense and other lawful purposes. In other words, we are to have the means to protect ourselves. I should say about those two cases, the Heller case in Washington and the McDonald case in Chicago, that the petitioners were people who really needed to protect themselves. One of the ones in the Heller case was a woman named Shelly Parker who lived in Washington where there was a lot of drug dealing going on. She reported this several times to the police, and the drug dealers said they knew who she was, and they were going to get her. In Chicago, Otis McDonald was an African American in his 70s. His apartment had been invaded several times, and he needed something to protect himself. So, these cases were brought by people who really needed to protect themselves. Now, there are some people who argue that this right of the Second amendment is outdated, we have the police to protect us, and go on to claim that permitting law- abiding citizens to have firearms to protect themselves would make all of us less safe. Do we still need to protect ourselves? First, however responsible the police are, they cannot protect all of us all the time. In fact, in a landmark case here in Washington, we found out that they had no responsibility to protect any individual. There was a case brought by three women who were assaulted in their townhouse on Capitol Hill. They called 911 repeatedly for half an hour. Nobody ever came. They sued the police in Washington, and the court dismissed their case saying that there was a duty to provide public service to the public at large, but absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists. So, the police have no legal duty to protect any one of us. I should say about the horrible Parkland massacre that the school in Parkland has now decided after a study that they are going to allow the teachers to be armed. The FBI does not record self-defense. So there have been some national surveys to try to find out how many people have actually used a gun in self-defense, and the national surveys, which vary a lot, have found between 700,000 and 3.6 million defensive uses of a gun annually. Normally, all that the person defending himself must do is actually brandish the gun. They almost never need to use it. It is just a way of showing that they can protect themselves during an attack. Will the private transfer of weapons on the FBI instant background check prevent gun violence? No, they will not. On the other hand, tactics to make it difficult for law- abiding Americans to keep and carry weapons in common use for their self-defense is a serious infringement of their constitutional right. Rather than improving public safety, it will make the public more vulnerable to those who would seek to harm them, including the battered women who are in danger, including students who are in a school where no one is protecting them. To conclude, Justice Scalia, in writing for the majority in the case of District of Columbia v. Heller, reminded us of the enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table. Thank you. [The statement of Dr. Malcolm follows:] STATEMENT OF JOYCE LEE MALCOLM We are here today because of our common goal: Public safety and how best to protect the lives of the American people. What divides us is the means by which we would accomplish that goal. The Supreme Court has explained in two landmark cases that the Framers of the Second amendment were clear about the solution. They have bequeathed to us, as individuals, the right to keep and bear those weapons in common use for self-defense and other lawful purposes. In other words we are to have the means to protect ourselves. Some argue that this right is outdated and that in 2019 we no longer need to protect ourselves, the police will protect us. Indeed, they go on to claim that permitting individual law- abiding citizens to have firearms to protect themselves will make all of us less safe. I would like to address both assertions. First do we still need to be able to protect ourselves? Self defense has always been considered our most fundament right. Despite the many police officers we now have, even with the best of intentions, they can never protect all of us all the time or even any one of us all the time. That is something only the individual on the spot can do. A means of self-defense is especially important to women and the elderly, or all those who live in more dangerous areas. ``The future process of law,'' William Blackstone, the great English jurist, explained, ``is by no means an adequate remedy for injuries accompanied by force.'' Self-defense, he adds, ``is not, neither can it be in fact, taken away by the law of society.'' Depriving individuals of the means to protect themselves takes the possibility of effective self-defense away. Their safety is forfeit. Do the police have a duty to protect you? This may seem a surprising question but a 1981 case involving three young women living in Capitol Hill provides a startling answer. The women who were brutalized by two men sued the police for failing to respond to their desperate and repeated calls to 911. The D.C. law banned their ownership of a firearm. The District of Columbia Court of Appeals dismissed the women's complaints against the District and Members of the police department pointing out: ``the duty to provide public services is owed to the public at large, and absent a special relationship between the police and an individual, no specific legal duty exists.'' In short the police have no legal duty to protect any one of us. Sadly, in a more recent case those charged with protecting us fail dramatically as in the terrible shooting at the Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland a year ago this month. No only did the local sheriff's department receive some 45 calls that the shooter Cruz posed a danger, they failed to block him from getting a gun or even to disarm him once he had weapons. After he had entered the school and began his killing spree the sheriff's deputy failed to confront him as did three other officers, instead waiting outside the building. The Parkland school now has decided the best way to protect students is to permit some teachers to be armed. Has the growing number of law-abiding Americans carrying arms increased the gun homicide rate? In the past few years State after State has passed ``shall issue'' legislation permitting their law-abiding citizens who fulfill certain basic regulations to carry a concealed weapon, so they may keep and bear arms for self-defense and other lawful purposes as the Constitution permits. There are now 39 ``shall issue'' states. You can drive across the country from Florida to Washington State and never cross a State that does not have ``shall issue'' concealed carry. In 2018 the FBI reported some 26,181,936 requests for background checks to purchase a weapon. Has this increase in the number of firearms led to higher gun homicide rates? The answer is ``no.'' Since a high of gun homicide deaths in 1991 there has been a steep decline, with firearm homicides dropping by nearly half. A study of an uptick in the past two years found that more than \2/3\ of the gun deaths were suicides. While that is little comfort for those who have been grievously harmed by shootings, it does show that permitting people to protect themselves does not increase the homicide rate. On the other hand guns are invaluable to protect oneself or others. The FBI does not record defensive uses of guns, but national surveys have found between 700,000 and 3.6 million defensive uses of a gun annually. Normally all the defender has to do is brandish the firearm to halt the attack. Will including private transfers of weapons on the FBI instant background check prevent gun violence? A large proportion of gun violence is caused by street gangs and they and others bent on misusing weapons obtain their guns illegally and are unlikely to submit to background checks or other requirements. More mental health facilities able to treat those deemed dangerous to themselves and others would be an aid in preventing mass killings. In 2016 Congress passed the Helping Families with Mental Health Crisis Act. This is a positive step in that direction. On the other hand tactics to make it difficult for law- abiding Americans to keep and carry weapons in common use for their self-defense is a serious infringement of their constitutional right and rather than improving public safety will make the public more vulnerable to those who would seek to harm them. To conclude, Justice Scalia, in writing for the majority in District of Columbia v. Heller reminded us that ``the enshrinement of constitutional rights necessarily takes certain policy choices off the table.'' Mr. Deutch. Mr. Chair, a point of information. Mr. Chair, it is important, before we go on, on important pieces of information, on declarations that are factually wrong, it is important to point them out. The Broward County School Board, the Stoneman Douglas teachers did not conclude that the response to what happened in their school is arming teachers. It is important that we get those facts straight. Dr. Malcolm. There was a commission--if I could be allowed to respond? Chair Nadler. Briefly, yes. Dr. Malcolm. There was a commission that was set up by the school, and it decided that was the best-- Mr. Deutch. That is also incorrect. Chair Nadler. We will deal with this in the question period. Thank you, Professor. Ms. Thomas? TESTIMONY OF ROBYN THOMAS Ms. Thomas. Thank you, Chair Nadler, Ranking Member Collins, and Members of the committee, for the opportunity to testify here today. My name is Robyn Thomas, and I am the Executive Director of the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. Giffords Law Center was formed more than 25 years ago after a mass shooting at a San Francisco law firm and renamed for Congresswoman Gabby Giffords after joining forces in 2016 with the organization she co-founded with her husband, Captain Mark Kelly. I have been the Executive Director of the Law Center since 2006. Twelve years ago, I told a Committee of Congress that numerous loopholes undermine our gun laws, putting American lives at risk. Since I last testified before Congress, no significant progress has been made to close these loopholes, and more than 390,000 people have died from gun violence in our country. Some of these shootings made national headlines and shocked the nation. The massacres at a Safeway in Tucson, at Sandy Hook Elementary School, a church in Charleston, in Orlando, Las Vegas, Parkland, and Pittsburgh, just to name a few. Most American gun violence never makes the news despite nearly 100 people dying every single day. The nominal effort made to address the reporting of records to the background check system has not done enough to stem the tide of gun violence in our country. It is still far too easy for people who want to do harm to get their hands on guns. Because Federal law does not require a background check on every gun sale, people who should not have guns and are legally prohibited from accessing them, like domestic abusers, people with violent criminal records, and people prohibited for mental health reasons, can easily buy guns from unlicensed sellers with no background check and no questions asked. Even if prohibiting records are in the NIC system, people can simply bypass that system altogether. A 2013 study found that approximately 80 percent of all firearms acquired for criminal purposes were obtained from sources who were not required to run a background check, and 96 percent of inmates who were prohibited from possessing a firearm at the time they committed their crime obtained a gun this way. Congress must close this dangerous loophole. That is why I am grateful to Congressman Mike Thompson and this Committee for prioritizing H.R. 8, the bipartisan Background Checks Act of 2019. H.R. 8 will make it harder for dangerous people to get their hands on guns and hurt themselves or others. Since 1994, background checks have stopped over 3 million gun sales or transfers to convicted felons and other prohibited individuals. This bill would expand the appropriate use of this system, ensuring that laws prohibiting these people from possessing guns are properly enforced. While closing the loopholes in our Federal background check system is a critical first step, we must also do more to cover people at a high risk from committing violence who are not currently prohibited from purchasing guns. This includes abusive dating partners, stalkers, and people convicted of hate crimes. We should also ensure families and law enforcement have the tools they need to intervene when someone demonstrates signs of a serious crisis, called extreme risk protection order laws. These laws create a legal process to temporarily remove firearms if a court finds someone poses a real risk. These laws now exist in some form in 13 states and save lives while ensuring due process. We must invest in our collective future. Congress should better regulate the gun industry and enact a gun trafficking law. It should also address gun violence in communities where its costs are felt most acutely, in urban areas where young African American and Latino men are most impacted. Well-funded violence intervention and prevention programs can successfully break cycles of violence and level the playing field for safety in our communities. Congress should also invest financially into research in this public health and safety crisis. Federal research into gun violence has been virtually non-existent for 20 years. This must be addressed so we can learn more about this problem and how to effectively solve it. There is no constitutional impediment to passing life- saving gun laws. Since the founding of our country, gun rights have always co-existed with gun regulations, and the need to protect public safety has always gone hand in hand with Americans' right to own guns. The only thing standing in the way of saving lives is a lack of political will. All we need to strengthen our Federal gun laws is a Congress with the courage to do so. I urge this Congress to find that courage, to show leadership on this life and death issue, and to Act now. Mr. Chair, Members of the committee, thank you for inviting us here to testify today, and I look forward to answering your questions. [The testimony of Ms. Thomas follows:] STATEMENT OF ROBYN THOMAS Thank you, Chair Nadler, and Members of the Committee for the opportunity to testify here today. My name is Robyn Thomas and I am the Executive Director of Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. Giffords Law Center was formed more than 25 years ago after a mass shooting at a San Francisco law firm and renamed for former Congresswoman Gabby Giffords after joining forces with the organization founded by her and her husband, Captain Mark Kelly. I have been the Executive Director of the Law Center since 2006. Twelve years ago, I told a Committee of Congress that numerous loopholes undermine our gun laws, putting American lives at risk. Since that time, Congress has begun to address only one of those shortcomings: A loophole that undermines comprehensive reporting of records into the background check system for gun purchasers. And since I last testified before Congress, more than 390,000 people have died from gun violence in our country. Some of these shootings made national headlines and shocked the nation--the massacres at a Safeway in Tucson; in an Aurora, Colorado movie theatre; at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut; in a church in Charleston; at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando; at a country music festival in Las Vegas; at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida; and at a synagogue in Pittsburgh--to name only a few. After the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007 and again after the Sutherland Springs shooting a little over a year ago, we saw Members of both parties come together to address the records that were missing from the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS).\1\ Yet, this effort has proven to be far too little to stem the tide of gun violence in this country. It is still far too easy for people who want to do harm to get their hands on guns. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \1\ NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007, Pub. L. No. 110-180, 121 Stat. 2559 (2008); Fix NICS Act of 2018, Pub. L. No. 115-141, Division S, title VI, 132 Stat. 1132, (2018). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Our federal elected officials need to do more than just ensure that records are in the background check system. We need to make sure that the background check system is used every time a person buys a gun. Under current law, unlicensed sellers can sell guns without running a background check. These sales occur online, at gun shows, and on the street--any place where the seller is not a licensed dealer. Because federal law doesn't require a background check for every gun sale, people who shouldn't have guns and are legally prohibited from accessing them--domestic abusers, people with violent criminal records, and people prohibited for mental health reasons--can easily buy guns from unlicensed sellers with no background check and no questions asked, even if their records are in the system. They simply bypass that system. This is not an abstract or theoretical matter; it's a dangerous loophole in our laws that threatens the public safety of communities across the country. Gun deaths in the United States have reached their highest level in almost 40 years, with nearly 40,000 Americans dying from gun violence in 2017--more than 100 people every day. Americans are 25 times more likely to be killed by a gun than people in other developed nations. In fact, no other developed country comes close. Sales and transfers of guns without background checks are a major contributor to this problem. A 2017 study estimated that 22 percent of American gun owners acquired their most recent firearm without a background check-- which translates to millions of guns each year.\2\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \2\ Matthew Miller, Lisa Hepburn, and Deborah Azrael, ``Firearm Acquisition Without Background Checks,'' Annals of Internal Medicine 166, No. 4 (2017): 233-239. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- A 2013 study found that approximately 80 percent of all firearms acquired for criminal purposes were obtained from sources who were not required to run a background check, and that 96 percent of inmates who were prohibited from possessing a firearm at the time they committed their crime obtained their gun this way.\3\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \3\ Katherine A. Vittes, Jon S. Vernick, and Daniel W. Webster, ``Legal Status and Source of Offenders' Firearms in States with the Least Stringent Criteria for Gun Ownership,'' Injury Prevention 19, No. 1 (2013): 26-31. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Congress must close this dangerous loophole. I am grateful to Congressman Mike Thompson and this Committee for prioritizing H.R. 8, the Bipartisan Background Checks Act of 2019, in the 116th Congress. This bill does not infringe on the right of Americans to own guns to protect themselves and their families, or to possess them for other lawful purposes. Nothing in the Constitution requires America's leaders to stand by and do nothing while more people die from gun violence each year than die from military combat overseas. Neither are background checks a violation of the Second Amendment. In fact, the Supreme Court itself has endorsed lifesaving gun safety laws to reduce access to guns by dangerous people, and throughout American history, courts have repeatedly upheld strong firearms regulations. H.R. 8 will make it harder for dangerous people to get their hands on guns and hurt themselves or others. Since 1994, background checks have stopped over three million gun sales or transfers to convicted felons, abusive partners, and people prohibited for mental health and other reasons. This bill would expand the use of this system, ensuring that the laws prohibiting these people from possessing guns are enforced. Law-abiding citizens can pass background checks. The background checks system is designed to identify and deny gun sales to only individuals prohibited from possessing firearms. The FBI's quality control evaluations indicate that background checks are accurate approximately 99.3 percent to 99.8 percent of the time.\4\ And in about 90 percent of cases, firearm background checks processed through NICS are processed within 90 seconds.\5\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \4\ Office of the Inspector General, ``Audit of the Handling of Firearms Purchase Denials Through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System,'' U.S. Department of Justice, September 2016, https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2016/a1632.pdf. \5\ Federal Bureau of Investigation, ``National Instant Criminal Background Check System Celebrates 20 Years of Service,'' Criminal Justice Information Services, November 30, 2018, https://www.fbi.gov/ services/cjis/cjis-link/national-instant-criminal-background-check- system- celebrates-20-years-of-service. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sometimes, however, the FBI cannot immediately obtain a clear yes or no answer on a NICS check. As I mentioned 12 years ago, federal law allows gun dealers to transfer guns after three business days, even if the FBI is still processing the background check.\6\ This loophole allowed the shooter who horrifically, hatefully killed nine people in a church in Charleston, South Carolina, in 2015 to obtain his gun, even though he wasn't legally entitled to buy it, because his background check was still in progress. Approximately 3,000 to 4,000 guns per year are transferred this way and then later have to be reacquired when the FBI determines after the three- day window has closed that the person should not have passed the background check.\7\ The Charleston loophole threatens local communities by enabling guns to fall into the hands of dangerous people. In the last Congress, Congressman James Clyburn introduced legislation to fix this problem. Congress should pass this legislation. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \6\ 18 U.S.C. 922(t)(1)(B)(ii). \7\ Criminal Justice Information Services Division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, U.S. Department of Justice, ``National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) Operations Reports,'' available at https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- While closing the loopholes in our federal background system is a critical first step, we must also do more to strengthen the laws that cover people at a high risk of committing violence who are not currently prohibited from possessing firearms, including domestic abusers. Nearly 600 women are shot and killed by intimate partners every year--an average of one woman every 16 hours.\8\ More than one in three women in the United States have experienced sexual violence, physical violence, and/or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetimes, making it critical that policymakers take steps to remove firearms from domestic violence situations. The gun homicide rate for women in the United States is 16 times higher than in other high-income countries,\9\ fueled in large part by elevated rates of intimate partner gun violence. Guns and domestic violence are a deadly mix: The presence of a gun in a domestic violence situation makes it five times more likely the victim will die,\10\ while domestic violence assaults involving a gun are 12 times more likely to end in death than assaults with other weapons or physical harm\11\ And even when they aren't used to commit murder, guns are often used by abusers to threaten and coerce their victims--approximately 4.5 million women in the United States have been threatened with a gun by an intimate partner.\12\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \8\ Jennifer Mascia, ``Once Every 16 Hours, an American Woman Is Fatally Shot by a Current or Former Romantic Partner,'' The Trace, Feb. 9, 2016, https://www.thetrace.org/2016/02/women-domestic-violence- death-statistics/. \9\ Erin Grinshteyn and David Hemenway, ``Violent Death Rates: The US Compared with Other High-income OECD Countries, 2010,'' American Journal of Medicine 129, No. 3 (2016): 266-273. \10\ Jacquelyn C. Campbell, et al., ``Risk Factors for Femicide in Abusive Relationships: Results from a Multisite Case Control Study,`` 93 Am. J. Pub. Health (July 2003): 1089, 1092. \11\ Linda E. Saltzman, et al., ``Weapon Involvement and Injury Outcomes in Family and Intimate Assaults,'' 267 JAMA (1992): 3043-3047. \12\ Susan B. Sorenson, Rebecca A. Schut, ``Nonfatal Gun Use in Intimate Partner Violence: A Systematic Review of the Literature,'' Trauma Violence Abuse 19, No. 4 (2018): 431-442. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- As was the case when I last testified here, current federal law does not prohibit gun possession by people who have assaulted dating partners they haven't lived with. This deadly gap leaves a significant number of abusers able to legally purchase and possess guns--and use them against their partners--despite a documented history of violence. As more couples wait until later in life to marry, this exception becomes deadlier: Today, dating partners, not spouses, commit nearly half of all intimate partner homicides.\13\ A study in one city showed that over 80 percent of intimate partner violence calls to law enforcement involve unmarried dating partners who aren't covered by our gun laws.\14\ Congress must address this deadly threat to women by making clear that people convicted of misdemeanors for abusing or stalking dating partners aren't entitled to have guns just because they weren't married to their victims. That's why I am grateful to Congresswoman Debbie Dingell for introducing H.R. 569, the Zero Tolerance for Domestic Abusers Act of 2019, in the 116th Congress. This bipartisan bill would follow the lead of states that have closed this loophole and subsequently experienced a 16 percent drop in intimate partner homicides committed with guns.\15\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \13\ Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Dep't of Justice, Homicide Trends in the United States, 1980-2008 (Nov. 2011): 20, http://bjs.gov/ content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf. \14\ Susan B. Sorenson, Devan Spear, ``New Data on Intimate Partner Violence and Intimate Relationships: Implications for Gun Laws and Federal Data Collection,'' Preventive Medicine 107 (2018): 103-108. \15\ April Zeoli, et al., ``Analysis of the Strength of Legal Firearms Restrictions for Perpetrators of Domestic Violence and Their Association with Intimate Partner Homicides,'' American Journal of Epidemiology 187, No. 7 (2018): 1449-1455. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- H.R. 569 would also close the stalking loophole. Current federal law prohibits stalkers convicted of felonies from purchasing or possessing guns, but lets those convicted of misdemeanor crimes to legally access them. But because felony stalking charges are often pled down to misdemeanors, this leaves victims at significant risk. Nearly one in six women in the United States is the victim of stalking in their lifetimes,\16\ and stalking is a strong indicator of future violence. One study of female murder victims in 10 cities found that 76 percent of women who were murdered and 85 percent who survived a murder attempt by a current or former intimate partner had previously been stalked.\17\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \16\ National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, ``National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey: 2015 Data Brief - Updated Release,'' (2018): 5, https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/2015data-brief508.pdf. \17\ Judith M. McFarlane, et al., ``Stalking and Intimate Partner Femicide,'' Homicide Studies 3, No. 4 (1999): 300-316. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- People convicted of abusing dating partners and stalking clearly should not have access to guns. Neither should those convicted of hate crimes. Violent extremists and hate groups often use firearms as tools of violence and intimidation. Between 2010 and 2014, roughly 43,000 hate crimes involving the use or threatened use of a gun were committed in the United States.\18\ Recent mass shootings at a gay nightclub in Orlando, an historic African- American church in Charleston, and a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, were among the deadliest hate crimes ever committed in the United States, and among the deadliest mass shootings in our nation's history. But federal law does not prohibit perpetrators of hate crimes from possessing firearms if they plead down their crimes to misdemeanors. In the last Congress, Congressman David Cicilline introduced legislation to close this loophole. I urge this Congress to take up and pass such a bill. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \18\ Center for American Progress, Hate and Guns: A Terrifying Combination, Feb. 2016, https://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/ uploads/2016/02/23104301/HateCrimes-report .pdf. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- One more thing Congress should do is to pass extreme risk legislation of the kind that has been enacted in red states and blue states across the country, especially since the tragic shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. Law enforcement officers often learn that certain individuals in their communities pose a real risk of harming themselves or others--and shouldn't be permitted to possess guns while they're at risk. Family Members, too, often are alarmed that a loved one is engaging in dangerous behavior, and a common thread in many mass shootings is that a family member of the shooter saw these warning signs even before any violence occurred.\19\ Extreme risk laws give families and law enforcement a way to intervene when someone demonstrates signs of a serious crisis, but in too many states, families and law enforcement lack this tool. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \19\ See Federal Bureau of Investigation, ``A Study of the Pre- Attack Behaviors of Active Shooters in the United States,'' June 2018, https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/pre-attack-behaviors-of-active- shooters-in-us-2000-2013.pdf/view. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Extreme risk protection order laws empower families and law enforcement by creating a mechanism to temporarily remove guns and prevent the purchase of new guns if a court finds that someone poses a real risk to themselves or others. These laws now exist in some form in 13 states and save lives while ensuring due process for those who pose serious dangers: researchers have determined that in Connecticut, for every 10 to 20 orders issued, one life was saved.\20\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \20\ Jeffrey W. Swanson et al., ``Implementation and Effectiveness of Connecticut's Risk-Based Gun Removal Law: Does it Prevent Suicides?,'' Law and Contemporary Problems 80 (2017): 179-208. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Laws authorizing extreme risk protection orders are a critical tool in helping to prevent gun suicides, which represent 60 percent of gun deaths. Guns are used in only five percent of suicide attempts, but are responsible for over 50 percent of all suicide deaths. This is because suicides attempted with guns are fatal 85 percent of the time--far more often than suicides attempted by other means.\21\ Put simply, people are more likely to die by suicide if they have easy access to firearms, and far less likely to die by suicide if they do not. For many individuals, this may mean the difference between life and death: nine out of 10 people who survive a suicide attempt do not die by suicide at a later date. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \21\ Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, Confronting the Inevitability Myth: How Data-Driven Gun Policies Save Lives from Suicide, (2018) 8, 25, https://lawcenter.giffords.org/wp-content/ uploads/2018/09/Giffords-Law-Center-Confronting-The-Inevitability- Myth_9.3.18 .pdf. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Congress can and must do more to support State extreme risk laws. These laws have been enacted in states with broad bipartisan support, and in the last two Congresses, there has been bipartisan support for legislation that would provide grants to states that have enacted such legislation or would provide a procedure to seek an extreme risk order from a federal court. I urge this Congress to prioritize similar legislation. Congress should also Act to address gun violence in the communities where its costs are felt most acutely. Gun homicides disproportionally and unjustly impact young African American and Latino men in urban areas. In 2017, over 65 percent of gun homicide victims were men of color. Those who survive gun violence are likely to experience it again: In studies of urban hospitals, researchers found that up to 45 percent of patients treated for injuries like gunshots were violently reinjured within five years.\22\ Yet, if implemented properly, violence intervention programs, like focused deterrence, street outreach, and hospital-based interventions, have a proven record of success at reducing this violence.\23\ These programs are capable of saving both lives and money, but require reliable, consistent funding to be successful. Currently, programs like these have been implemented in just a handful of cities and funded through a patchwork of discretionary grant programs. The Departments of Justice and Health and Human Services should dramatically increase funding for these programs. Over the long term, this would pay off in a literal sense: Every year, gun violence costs the American economy $229 billion. Congress needs to invest in reducing gun violence. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \22\ J. Purtle et. al., ``Hospital-based Violence Intervention Programs Save Lives and Money,'' J. Trauma Acute Care Surg. 75, No. 2 (2013): 331-333. \23\ See Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, Healing Communities in Crisis: Lifesaving Solutions to the Urban Gun Violence Epidemic (2016), https://lawcenter.giffords.org/wp-content/uploads/ 2019/01/Healing-Communities-in-Crisis.pdf. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This investment must include a commitment to fully understand the American gun violence epidemic. This requires research. But in 1996, Congress took away dedicated federal funding for gun violence research from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). For more than 20 years, federal investment in gun violence research has remained virtually nonexistent at the nation's primary health protection agency, despite gun deaths increasing for the past three years in a row to levels not seen in decades. Researchers estimate that gun violence receives less than two percent of the funding it would be expected to receive based on the scope and toll of the problem: the Federal Government spends only $57 in research monies per gun death, while lung disease, cancer, and heart disease receive $6,556, $2,996, and $1,740 per death, respectively.\24\ Congress must correct this inequity and immediately dedicate the appropriate funding to tackle this public health crisis. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \24\ David E. Stark and Nigam H. Shah, ``Funding and Publication of Research on Gun Violence and Other Leading Causes of Death,'' JAMA 317, No. 1 (2017): 84-86. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Congress must also do more to address gun trafficking. Notably, no clear and effective federal law prohibits gun trafficking. This blatant omission means that law enforcement agencies rarely focus their efforts on those individuals who put guns into the wrong hands. Closing the background check loophole would begin to address this problem, but the law must directly address gun trafficking. Current law does require federally licensed firearms dealers to provide a report to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) any time a person buys more than one pistol within five consecutive business days, which can indicate a trafficker at work.\25\ This provision should be expanded to all firearms to provide law enforcement with the opportunity to investigate individuals with potentially dangerous intent. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \25\ 18 U.S.C. 923(g)(3)(A). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is of paramount importance that we give law enforcement all the information they need to keep communities safe. When felons and other prohibited people lie on Form 4473 when buying a gun, not only are they violating federal gun laws, bu they may also be planning violent crimes. But current law does not require reporting these so-called ``lie and try'' attempts to State or local law enforcement. Bipartisan legislation was introduced in both chambers in the 115th Congress to ensure that when prohibited individuals lie on a background check form and try to buy a gun, law enforcement gets a heads up. This prompt notification of law enforcement allows agents to investigate and make sure that a prohibited purchaser doesn't obtain a gun some other way and use it to commit a crime. Congress should also ensure that ATF is empowered and adequately funded to enforce our nation's gun laws. While most gun dealers operate responsibly, a small number of irresponsible gun dealers supply an overwhelming number of guns used in crimes. Gun dealers need a license from ATF to operate, but ATF lacks the resources and authority to effectively oversee dealers and shut them down when they behave irresponsibly. ATF is prohibited from conducting more than one unannounced inspection of each dealer per year \26\--but even without this restriction, ATF would still lack the resources to conduct sufficient inspections. In fact, a 2013 report by the Office of the Inspector General found that 58 percent of dealers had not been inspected within the past five years due, in part, to a lack of resources.\27\ This problem has not been solved in the years since: In 2017, ATF inspected only about eight percent of federal firearm licensees. Fewer than half of the businesses inspected were found to be in full compliance with federal firearms laws.\28\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \26\ 18 U.S.C. 923(g)(1)(B). \27\ Office of the Inspector General, Evaluation and Inspections Division, U.S. Department of Justice, Review of ATF's Federal Firearms Licensee Inspection Program (Apr. 2013): ii, http://www.justice.gov/ oig/reports/2013/e1305.pdf. \28\ Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives, Fact Sheet--Facts and Figures for Fiscal Year 2017 (May 2018), https:// www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-facts-and-figures- fiscal-year-2017. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ATF is only authorized to revoke the license of a dealer who has ``willfully'' violated the law,\29\ and ATF's authority to temporarily suspend a gun dealer's license is strictly limited. In 2017, ATF took administrative action against 3,548 firearms licensees, but only revoked or denied the renewal of 40 licenses.\30\ This means that dealers are often allowed to stay in business despite careless or reckless business practices that have allowed criminals access to guns--even after law enforcement learns about those dangerous business practices. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \29\ 18 U.S.C. 923(e). \30\ Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives, Fact Sheet - Facts and Figures for Fiscal Year 2017 (May 2018), https:// www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-facts-and-figures- fiscal-year-2017. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ATF is also specifically prohibited from requiring firearm dealers to conduct inventories of their businesses.\31\ The bureau's lack of authority to ensure that firearms dealers utilize this common business practice means that, absent State or local regulation, dealers are not required to confirm whether firearms have gone missing. Gun stores are also under no legal obligation to use basic security measures to safeguard their inventories. Over 12,000 guns were either lost or stolen from federal firearms licensees in 2017 alone.\32\ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \31\ Consolidated and Further Continuing Appropriations Act 2013, 113 P.L. 6, 127 Stat. 198 (2013). \32\ Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives, Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) Theft/Loss Report (2018), https://www.atf.gov/ resource-center/docs/report/theftdatausa2017pdf/download. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- To keep American communities safe, gun stores whose irresponsible business practices put guns in the hands of criminals should not be allowed to stay in business, and ATF should have the resources and authority necessary to provide proper oversight and revoke licenses from bad actors. In past Congresses, bills have been introduced in both the House and the Senate that would strengthen ATF's authority and reduce these problems. Just as ATF desperately needs modernization, so too does the gun industry. Gun safety technology includes personalized guns and accessories such as gun safes, trigger locks, and retrofit kits that prevent firearms from being fired by unauthorized users.\33\ These innovations have the potential to reduce gun suicides and unintentional shootings, especially among children, as well as gun thefts. Nearly 7,000 children in the United States receive medical treatment for gun-related injuries each year. Personalized guns and accessories let owners' control who can access their gun. The technology that gives owners this control includes biometric security methods, like fingerprint sensors, and radio-frequency identification (RFID) technology, which uses radio waves to identify objects. Personalized accessories, like a fingerprint trigger lock, add an extra layer of security to gun safes or locks. When used with traditional guns, they offer a similar level of security to personalized guns. Congress can encourage the development of these potentially lifesaving technologies by providing research and development tax credits and grants for gun safety technology through supporting the SAFETY Act introduced by Congressman Jim Himes. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \33\ Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, Securing a Safer Future: How Incentives for Gun Safety Technology Can Stop Shootings (2018), https://lawcenter.giffords.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/ Securing-a-Safer-Future-Giffords-Law-Center-6.13.18.pdf. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- In addition to encouraging the gun industry to pursue more responsible and safer business practices, Congress should ensure that irresponsible and dangerous industry actors can be held accountable. But gun dealers, importers, and manufacturers also enjoy an immunity from civil liability that doesn't apply to any other industry. After a series of lawsuits in the 1990s began to hold particularly reckless gun businesses liable, the gun lobby convinced Congress to pass and President Bush to sign the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act in 2005.\34\ This law gives gun manufacturers and sellers unprecedented nationwide immunity from lawsuits and as a result, the industry can ignore the incentive that civil litigation normally provides for private businesses to avoid causing harm to the public. PLCAA has slammed the courthouse doors shut for the thousands of gun violence victims whose deaths and injuries could have been prevented if the gun industry behaved in a more responsible manner. This Congress has the chance to right this wrong by passing legislation to repeal PLCAA. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \34\ Pub. L. No. 109-92, 119 Stat. 2095 (2004). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- While the gun industry should be treated equally in court to all other industries, it is clear that all guns are not created equal. Semi-automatic assault rifles offer a lethal combination: rifle ammunition capable of penetrating bullet- proof vests, coupled with the capability to accept detachable magazines that can hold as many as 100 rounds. This lethality has made semi-automatic assault weapons with large-capacity magazines the weapons of choice for shooters who carry out horrific public attacks. Because shooters with large-capacity magazines can fire at large numbers of people without taking the time to reload, those in the line of fire do not have a chance to escape, law enforcement does not have the chance to intervene, and the number of lives shattered by senseless acts of gun violence increases dramatically. In Tucson, when Gabby was shot, the moment when the shooter stopped firing to reload was the moment when a courageous bystander intervened and stop his rampage. Congress must do more to restrict access to these deadly devices, which includes ensuring that a teenager cannot easily purchase these exceptionally lethal firearms. Congress set the minimum age to buy a handgun at 21, but allows an 18-year-old to buy an AR-15. That is how the teenage shooter in Parkland, Florida, was able legally buy a semi-automatic assault rifle and use it to kill 17 people. Since that tragic day, four states have closed this gap and ensured that residents cannot buy an AR-15 or AK-47 before they are old enough to buy a handgun--or even a beer. Elected officials on both sides of the aisle in State legislatures, Congress, and the White House agree we must raise the minimum age to purchase these weapons of war. Bipartisan legislation has already been introduced this Congress to do just that, and I call on Congress to take this commonsense step forward. Finally, Congress should Act to ban bump stocks. In the terrifying attack in Las Vegas, a shooter used semi-automatic assault rifles modified with bump stocks to shoot more people more quickly. As we are all too aware, attaching a bump stock allows a gun to fire like a machine gun. It was this modification that allowed the shooter to kill 58 people and injure hundreds in a matter of minutes. While a new federal regulation was finalized to ban bump stocks, it was immediately challenged in court, and there is a real risk that it will be tied up in the courts for months or years, leaving these dangerous accessories available to the public. Congress can ensure this threat is dealt with once and for all by acknowledging bipartisan support for banning bump stocks and passing legislation that does so. As this testimony makes clear, there are countless ways that Congress can, and should, strengthen our gun laws to make our country safer and save lives from gun violence. The final point I want to make is that all of the legislation I have endorsed stands on firm constitutional ground. None of the proposals I've urged Congress to pass violate the Second Amendment. In District of Columbia v. Heller, the landmark case from 2008, the Supreme Court held that the Second amendment protects an individual right of law-abiding citizens, unconnected to militia service, to own guns for self-defense. But in writing for the Court's majority, the late Justice Antonin Scalia also made crystal clear that the right is not absolute or unlimited, and that it does not override basic public safety concerns.\35\ Heller explicitly said that the Second amendment was not a ``right to keep and carry any weapons whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose,'' and stated directly that a range of laws are fully consistent with the Second Amendment, including those prohibiting gun possession by felons and the mentally ill, prohibiting guns in sensitive places like schools and government buildings, and placing conditions on gun sales-- conditions like background checks. The Court noted that nothing in the Second amendment prohibits government from regulating firearm storage to prevent accidents and made clear that Congress and the states can prohibit civilian possession of dangerous weapons of war like the M16 and other weapons most adapted to military use. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- \35\ 554 U.S. 570 (2008). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heller's explicit recognition that a broad range of gun laws are fully consistent with the Second amendment is in keeping with more than 200 years of American history. Since the founding of our country, gun rights have always coexisted with gun regulations, and the need to protect public safety has always gone hand-in-hand with Americans' right to own guns. Indeed, early American gun laws were, in many cases, much more restrictive than 21st century laws, and went much further than any of the actions I have urged Congress to take today. That is why, for more than 200 years before Heller and in the decade that followed that decision, federal and State courts across the country have, again and again, upheld strong gun laws that keep our communities safe. Let me be clear: there is no constitutional impediment to passing lifesaving gun laws. The Second amendment does not stand in the way of passing stronger gun laws. The only thing standing in the way is the lack of political will. All we need to strengthen our federal gun laws is a Congress with the courage to do so. I urge Congress to find that courage, to show leadership on this life-and-death issue, and to act, now. Our gun violence crisis is a uniquely American problem. It's a problem that plagues our country in countless different ways and exacts a devastating toll on our communities. But it's a problem with solutions. While one single law will never stop all gun violence, we know strong gun laws save lives. We know that allowing children to grow up safe from violence is not a partisan issue, or at least it shouldn't be. We have seen progress in recent years. That progress must be the expectation, not the exception. So today, I ask all Members of this Committee and Congress as a whole to recommit themselves to making progress and taking action to reduce gun violence in this country. Thank you again, Mr. Chair, and I look forward to taking your questions. Chair Nadler. I thank all the witnesses for their testimony. We will now proceed under the 5-minute Rule with questions. I will begin by recognizing myself for 5 minutes. My first question is for Dr. Sakran. Dr. Sakran, we have heard today, and we hear repeatedly during this extended debate, that the real problem or one real problem is mental health, and we have got to deal better with mental health. Now I am sure no one objects to dealing better with mental health problems. My question is the following. As I noted in my opening statement, gun deaths in most other countries are in the double or single digits--at double or triple digits, 300, 200, 100. In our country, it is 35,000 to 40,000 a year. Is there any evidence, number one, that mental health differences--that our people are 10,000 times more mentally ill on average than people in other industrialized countries, that this provides an explanation and that dealing with mental health alone will go any distance toward solving this problem? Dr. Sakran. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair, for that question. The disparity that exists between our country and other comparable countries is dramatic, as you suggest. Even when folks factor in for the rates of mental health disease and other issues, we still exceed all those other countries by a significant proportion. So, it is not that we are completely dissimilar. Chair Nadler. Thank you. I will ask you one other question. Firearms emergency protective orders empower family and law enforcement who recognize signs of danger to petition for a court order to temporarily remove a person's access to guns if they are likely to use them to harm themselves or others. Briefly, please, what can Congress do to ensure that every American has access to an extreme risk protection order in appropriate circumstances when someone they love is experiencing such a crisis? Dr. Sakran. Yes, I mean, this is such an important issue because when you look at the majority of deaths from firearms, those come from suicide, two-thirds. The reality is when you look at the time that it takes from when the person decides to commit suicide until they actually make that first attempt, 50 percent happen within the first 10 minutes. So being able to have-- Chair Nadler. So, what can Congress do to ensure-- Dr. Sakran. Yes. So being able to have extreme risk protection orders where you can empower family Members and you can empower law enforcement to temporarily actually seize weapons so that they are not a harm to themselves, or others is critical. Chair Nadler. Thank you. Ms. Thomas, the NRA and others have argued that enacting universal background checks would penalize law-abiding gun owners and prevent such transfers as a father giving a gun to his son. Yet the plain language of H.R. 8, the Bipartisan Background Checks Act, is narrowly written and clearly allows for this kind of transfer. Can you walk us briefly through H.R. 8 and how it explicitly protects these kinds of common transfers? Ms. Thomas. So, basically, what H.R. 8 does is it takes our existing law, which prohibits this variety of individuals that we deem to be at highest risk from purchasing firearms, now these individuals can buy firearms easily without a background check through an unlicensed sale. This law would mean that all transfers of firearms have to take place through a gun dealer, including a background check, so that that background check would apply to all individuals. There are exceptions in the law for a number of instances, including self-defense, including loans for hunting and other lawful purposes, and also for transfers within immediate family Members--grandparents, parents, aunts, and uncles. Chair Nadler. So, within immediate family wouldn't be subject to this? Ms. Thomas. Excuse me? Chair Nadler. Would not be subject to this requirement, immediate family transfer, right? Ms. Thomas. Exactly. There is an exception for immediate family Members being-- Chair Nadler. Thank you. Ms. Thomas, the only Federal agency with jurisdiction to regulate the gun industry has had its hands tied for decades through a combination of restrictive policy writers and a shrinking budget. Can you talk about the challenges facing the ATF and its efforts to effectively regulate the gun industry and what Congress needs to do to ensure better regulatory oversight of this agency? Ms. Thomas. Well, I think there is two main issues that you are referring to. One is the funding question and the size of ATF. ATF, the entirety of ATF is the size of the Las Vegas Police Department. So, it is a rather small group of people looking to look after 55,000 gun dealers across the United States. Approximately 8 percent of those gun dealers were able to be even inspected last year, based on the number of agents that ATF had. So better funding is an absolute necessity for Federal law enforcement to be able to properly do their job. Secondarily, I think you are referring to the Tiahrt restrictions, which-- Chair Nadler. What restrictions? Ms. Thomas. The Tiahrt restrictions, which are an appropriations rider, which prevents ATF from aggregating trace data and using that information to properly do their job to find the source of gun trafficking. They are also prevented from modernizing their records, which is helpful to also doing their job properly as law enforcement, as well as encouraging or forcing gun dealers to keep better track of their inventory so they can better understand the source of guns. Chair Nadler. So, we should repeal those restrictions? Ms. Thomas. Absolutely. Chair Nadler. Thank you very much. My time has expired, and I recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Collins, for 5 minutes. Mr. Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chair. That was an interesting line of questions, but it hit on some things that I want to discuss. Ms. Thomas, since you are up, we will just continue here. On your website, it says that your organization supports national firearms registration that includes name, address, other identifying information about the owner of a firearm, names of the manufacturer, importer, model, type of action, and caliber gauge. You get the picture. You would also like renewals of registrations annually, including submitting to a background check. Is this correct? This is off your website. Ms. Thomas. One of the many policy solutions that we think would go a long way to helping reduce gun violence would be registration. Mr. Collins. Okay. So that is a yes? I am just asking for a yes or no here. Ms. Thomas. It is one of the many comprehensive laws that we think needs to be in place if we are going to make progress in reducing gun violence in America. Mr. Collins. Okay. Your organization, as you have already stated, is a very active supporter of H.R. 8. Do you realize that H.R. 8 explicitly states that nothing in this Act or any amendment made by this Act shall be construed to authorize the establishment, directly or indirectly, of a national firearms registry? In fact, it goes out of its way to say it doesn't create a firearms registry. How do you square this position calling for a registry with a bill explicitly saying it doesn't? Ms. Thomas. That is absolutely what H.R. 8 says, and we firmly support everything included in H.R. 8. When you go to our website, our website includes the most comprehensive source of analysis of every gun law in every State and at the Federal level, both in existence and what is possible in a world where we might want to regulate guns very comprehensively, as they do in many other countries. So, what is on our website refers to all the possible policy options that this body and State governments can consider when they are looking at opportunities to regulate guns and reduce gun violence. Mr. Collins. It is really interesting because it has been reported, even under the previous Department of Justice, the Obama Administration, that there is no way to actually regulate private sales. Let us talk about what we are actually talking about here. This is private sales, okay? Not when you go to a federally licensed firearm dealer. This private sale is going to be regulated. It needs a registry because you can't keep up with it without a registry. This goes back to my opening statement when I said I am not sure which is crueler--to actually tell people who come to this hearing to say we are fixing your problem and then offer something that it doesn't fix the question here, because it guts itself in the inside of the bill. You also mention red flag off, which I share a concern here. The interesting thing is on the red flag, H.R. 8 itself, actually prohibits. If I was this morning to get up and I have had a bad night, let us say, and I just said I don't want to live anymore. H.R. 8 actually would criminalize if I went across the street to my neighbor and said I am having a bad day. I want to make sure I don't have anything to hurt myself or my family and give those guns to my neighbor, that would actually be criminalize. It is not in the listed exceptions, and I know there is a lot in there. If you read the bill, it is not there. So, again, what we have to do is look at what is honestly being discussed here. I want to switch to Chief Acevedo. Chief, it is good to see you again. We had a great time in Houston. You are doing something now, and you brought that up. I think it is interesting. You know my father is in law enforcement, and I think doing something now is a commendable thing if it actually works, if it actually fits. How can you explain, going off this last conversation, how H.R. 8 can operate effectively without a firearms registry, and do you see implementation problems in this? Chief Acevedo. Well, I think that the recommendations that H.R. 8 has in there, the legislation will not solve, will not eliminate gun violence, but it will certainly--I don't think anyone on this panel would say that it wouldn't prevent at least one death. The question I would have, if that one death was your child, mother, or father, is a little inconvenience too much to save that life? If the answer is no, then there is nothing I can say that is going to change your mind on H.R. 8. I believe that the legislation will save at least one life, and if it is my child who dies, I want him to know and I want God to know that I was here today speaking on that life. Mr. Collins. The interesting thing is, how many, in a law that you passed, that you give people comfort in saying it would actually pass, can they simply say the transfer was made before this without a registry? I think this is an interesting thing to actually explore here. We are going to explore this more when I am sure it is marked up. I am not questioning by any means the decision or the desire to find a solution to this. This is it. I am still in the military, and I was in Iraq. I had the trauma surgeons in Iraq, and we talked about this experience. This is not an issue. Let us also look at this holistically because every time we are going to go to fix this, we go to the population that is the legal gun owners buying or selling in the legal format. We go to BOP, the Bureau of Prisons, when they put out their statistics, most criminals do not get their guns from legal sources. They don't. The question is interesting, curious, because this has come up a little bit. My time is running out. An interesting discussion here is what would be the penalty for robbing a federally licensed dealer? What should it be, and how should it be enforced? Because that is becoming more and more of an issue. Chair Nadler. The time of the gentleman is expired. The witness may answer the question. Chief Acevedo. I believe that this has to be a two-prong approach. We need to take folks that would commit gun violence, steal firearms, we need to have a zero tolerance and a real tough approach on that. The other thing that we need to look at is if these gun dealers actually have to secure, lock their firearms every night. The number-one targets of gang Members and other criminals is pawn shops and gun shops where they come in and burglarize those places. So, I think there is a way to do it, and I think the other thing we need to do is we have Congress actually authorize and fund studying, a comprehensive study on this matter, once and for all, and let the experts come up with the policy decisions on an evidence-based, which is really interesting because you are from George Mason University. Pardon me? Actually, in the evidence-based hall of fame there. So, I really believe that we need to study it. We need to fund it. Lastly, we need to get ATF some help. They are a great partner, but they truly are because of lack of funding and support of the Congress, operate with one hand behind their backs, one arm behind their backs, and we need to give them both arms. Chair Nadler. Thank you. The time of the gentleman has expired. Ms. Lofgren? Ms. Lofgren. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am so pleased that we are having this hearing today. You know, we have experienced an epidemic of gun violence in this country, deaths from mass shootings, suicides, and for years, we have failed to have any attention, any hearings, any legislation to deal with this epidemic and this tragedy. So, I am pleased that we now have the opportunity to begin work on this public health crisis. It is our turn to set the agenda and to listen to the American people. So, I appreciate all the witnesses who are here and especially the young people who are in the audience who have spoken up across the country with passion and eloquence, and it is your energy that has helped us be here today. I do have a question, Ms. Thomas, about a study that was done by Everytown for Gun Safety. They reviewed an online firearms marketplace, and according to their report, they found that almost one in nine prospective gun buyers from this website would not have passed a background check. They gave one example of a customer in Georgia who was looking to buy a handgun immediately. He said within 24 hours. A public records request showed he had multiple felony convictions, including one for child molestation. He was currently under indictment. This was someone who shouldn't have a gun. He wouldn't have passed a background check, and yet he was able to obtain it through this unlicensed seller on the Internet. That apparently is happening at a rate of seven to one of the users of this website. People know they can avoid the background check. What can be done to make sure the people online and looking for guns are not able to avoid a background check? Ms. Thomas. That is exactly why we need to pass H.R. 8. Because the reference to private sales doesn't acknowledge that private sales now, unlicensed sellers include online sales, include many sellers at gun shows, and include sales that are happening on the street. H.R. 8 would address this gaping loophole in our background check laws and ensure that all gun sales, including sales online are run through a licensed gun dealer with a background check. Ms. Lofgren. Thank you very much. Dr. Sakran, in the early 1970s, Congress passed legislation spurred by a call to action surrounding a public health crisis, and shortly after Congress acted, President Richard Nixon signed the Public Health Cigarette Smoking Act, which banned cigarette ads from airing on television and radio in response to evidence highlighting the causal link between cigarette smoking and lung cancer. Now gun violence in this country is a public health crisis that claims the lives of 100 Americans every day and injures hundreds more every day, resulting in a Nation of gun violence survivors, with the trauma that that leaves them with. Gun violence in any form can have a lasting impact on individuals not only emotionally, but also physically and financially. Now do you agree that gun violence is a public health crisis in America, and how could we address the public health implications of gun violence similar as was done with smoking? Dr. Sakran. Yes, thank you for that question. That is such an important question because one of the things that we haven't done when it comes to gun violence is treated it like a disease, treated it like the public health crisis that it is. The tobacco analogy is great, but also you can talk about obesity and so many other things. As clinicians, we have a responsibility to be talking to our patients about things like safe storage and other aspects. What can we do? One of the biggest gaps, and we heard about this, is the lack of funding. There has been essentially a moratorium on Federal funding when it comes to firearms to do prevention research. When you talk to folks like Dr. Redfield, who is the CDC Director, he will say I am happy to study it as long as Congress appropriates those dollars. So, I think that is one thing that is so critical. Ms. Lofgren. Thank you, and my time is just about up. I would be remiss if I did not thank my colleague from California Mike Thompson for the years that he has spent leading our gun violence task force. He is here in the audience today, and thank you, Mike, for your hard work. Chair Nadler. Thank you. Mr. Gohmert? Mr. Gohmert. Thank you, Mr. Chair. We do appreciate all the witnesses being here today, and I am thrilled there is so much interest in this issue. As has been said, we know everybody here wants to stop the gun violence. As a former prosecutor and defense attorney and a judge, felony judge for over a decade, I have tried to remember any case--I can't remember any significant case I had out of the thousands where somebody went through the process of getting a gun legally to inflict the violence. We all want to stop the gun violence. I haven't heard anybody talk about the breakdown of the home, the breakdown in moral teachings. Those certainly have had an effect. I know one of the most quoted numbers that we often hear, and we have heard again today, is that background checks have stopped over 3 million people from getting guns that shouldn't have them. That is the initial stop. It is difficult to get through all the data, but it appears the best estimate is somewhere over 96 percent of those 3 million end up being able to get guns. That is just the initial stop. In fact, a good indication is 2010 numbers, and these are sometimes difficult to get the exact figures. From 2010, we know there were 76,000 denials, and the Obama Administration only found 44 that actually were committing a crime by trying to get a gun illegally. So, we want to all get to the same place. Here in DC, where they have incredibly strict gun laws, it costs $125 to privately transfer a gun. People that are law abiding, they will pay the $125. Criminals will not. It will not stop the transfers among criminals, and that is really where we get. In Baltimore, we have heard about it is $250. Heck, in Illinois, apparently it is $450 to get qualified to have a concealed carry. If H.R. 8 became law and somebody called me or anybody and said I am scared to death, my former spouse or live-in or whomever, has threatened me, and I think he is going to be coming sometime this week, well, the law under H.R. 8 requires before you can do a private transfer, before you could take a gun to try to help them protect themselves, there has to be an imminent threat. So, for someone to take a gun to somebody they love so they can protect themselves that week, they have committed a crime because you can't have an imminent threat for a week. So, there are issues here. We all want to get to an end of gun violence, but I would like to ask Doctor--and by the way, for victims, my heart goes out to whether it is a shooting, it is sexual assault. There were so many times that as a judge I had to stoically do my job, but I would go back to my office with a broken heart for the victims. We know who does the real suffering, and we want to stop it. I am thrilled that we have so many people that care so deeply. Dr. Malcolm, in your information, you indicated 2018, the FBI reported some 26,181,000 requests for background checks to purchase a gun. Has that increase in the number of requests led to an increase in violence? Dr. Malcolm. No, it hasn't. In fact, for more than 20 years, the rate of gun homicides has gone down. It has gone up slightly the last couple of years mostly because of the suicides. While the number has gone up, the rate hasn't. So far, more people are now allowed to conceal carry across the country, get a certificate to have a gun, but that hasn't resulted in what it was supposed to do for those people who are against it. They thought there would be shootouts on OK corral on every corner. People are very responsible. Law-abiding citizens are extremely responsible with that right and are using it to protect themselves. Mr. Gohmert. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back. Chair Nadler. The time of the gentleman has expired. Ms. Jackson Lee? Ms. Jackson Lee. I thank Chair. Let me likewise add my appreciation for all the witnesses, and victims are in all our hearts. We are reminded that you are seeking action. Let me thank March for Our Lives and the Members who have encountered these horrific tragedies. I also want to acknowledge Chair Thompson for the years of work. I have had the privilege of working with him, and that we have come to this point is very much attributable to his persistence. I thank him. I thank Ms. Kelly as well. Having visited her district, Ms. Latiker, as you well know, I have been at the memorial, and I will never forget. We owe you a great deal of gratitude. I thank you so very much. Ms. Thomas, I might not get to ask you a question, but I do want to indicate that the Giffords Center has been the mainstay of data collection. So, I want to remind everyone the numbers that we have cited have come from this great work. A hundred Americans dying every day. So that means as we sit here today, there are Americans being killed by guns. I believe your statistics of 3 million people effectively being stopped through gun checks, and the universal background check bill is a bill of common sense. That is all we have asked for. I want to ask, Professor Thomas, let me do this. In the Second amendment the language, in particular, allow me just to read from the Constitution. It indicates ``a well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.'' A simple process of background check--and I don't have a lot of time. Professor Malcolm, I am going to direct the question to you. What in the Second amendment is impacted through a simple, straightforward background check? How are you stopped from getting a gun? Would you be stopped from getting a gun through a background check? Dr. Malcolm. I would not be stopped, but the people who are likely to misuse a gun would not go through a background check. The background check is really affecting those people who are law-abiding citizens, for the most part, and not those people on the street. Ms. Jackson Lee. The law-abiding citizens would not be blocked from getting a gun through a background check. Is that correct? Dr. Malcolm. If you make the background check cumbersome enough, like this new bill will, then I think it will. Ms. Jackson Lee. You have not answered the question. The question is what in the Second amendment is infringed upon by a background check? We are not asking about the process and cumbersome. That has to be tested. This is a bill that indicates universal background check. Dr. Malcolm. The process does interfere with people being able to get it. We have heard that there are-- Ms. Jackson Lee. We have no data to prove that. So, I think you are not connecting it. I would like to hear you say just the existence of a universal background check, not process, would violate the Second Amendment. Is that a yes, or no? Dr. Malcolm. A background check is a process, really. You can make it cumbersome. Ms. Jackson Lee. Does it violate the Second Amendment? Dr. Malcolm. You can make-- Ms. Jackson Lee. Does it stop people from getting guns? It is not the point of who will not go through the process. Will it stop people from getting guns that you say are law-abiding citizens? Dr. Malcolm. One of the Republican Members of your Committee has pointed out that there are expenses in the States that have universal background checks-- Ms. Jackson Lee. I don't think you are actually answering the question. Dr. Malcolm. --that poor people cannot afford. So, it does. Ms. Jackson Lee. Let me go to Chief Acevedo. Thank you very much, Professor. I don't think you are answering the question. It does not infringe upon the Second Amendment. Chief Acevedo and Dr. Sakran, two questions, and I really want to question all the witnesses, but let me be very clear. Chief Acevedo, you are on the streets with your law enforcement. You believe in relational policing. How much guns impacting your officers, but also, as you walk the beat, impacting neighborhoods, mothers, fathers, and children? That is my question to you. I just want to get the question for Dr. Sakran. Dr. Sakran, years ago I introduced a bill where the chief trauma surgeon from Texas Children's Hospital said at that time it cost them $67,000 to treat a gun victim, a child. That was 20 years plus ago. Would you be able to answer monetarily, just maybe not specifically, but the depth of cost in human tragedy and dollars that we lose by not responding to gun violence in America? Chief, would you answer the question, please? I ask the indulgence of the chair. Yes, Chief? Chief Acevedo. Thank you for the question. The gun violence impacts all big cities across the country and suburban America as well. If you think about domestic violence. In the City of Houston last year, we had, tragically, 279 homicides. It went up by 10. The driver, the greatest driver, 38 percent increase in domestic violence homicides, domestic violence murders where we don't have enough tools across our country for police officers in those situations to temporarily remove firearms to keep women safe and families safe and children safe. So, it is a significant problem. I think all you must turn on your television, listen to the radio and scanners, and go to emergency rooms, and you will see that it is a significant problem. Ms. Jackson Lee. Dr. Sakran? Dr. Sakran. Yes, thank you so much for that question because-- Chair Nadler. The time of the Member has expired. The witness is permitted to answer after the time of the Member has expired. Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Chair Nadler. You are welcome. Chief Acevedo spoke after the time had expired. Our next witness, questioner is Mr. Gaetz. Oh, before Mr. Gaetz, I want to announce that the Committee will recess at 12:30 p.m. for one half hour for lunch. We will resume at 1:00 p.m., and we will continue until there will be votes, which we expect on the floor sometime after 2:00 p.m. If necessary, we will reconvene right after those votes. Mr. Gaetz? Mr. Gaetz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ronald da Silva was standing with a friend in his driveway when he was shot and killed by an illegal alien who had been previously deported. Agnes Gibboney, who was da Silva's mother, said the guy who killed my son has a determinate sentence in prison, but I have a lifetime sentence of grief and pain. Apolinar Altamirano is an illegal alien from Mexico. He murdered Grant Ronnebeck with a gun on January 22, 2015, in Mesa, Arizona. ICE was working to determine whether he should be deported when he had the opportunity to commit this crime. Gustavo Garcia, a 36-year-old illegal alien, shot and killed a 51-year-old Rocky Paul Jones on December 17th at a gas station. Garcia had previously been deported by ICE. Before his deportation, he had a criminal record going back all the way back to 2002, where he had illegally possessed a firearm. In addition to murdering Jones, Garcia also shot a farm worker in the chest who was picking fruit, committed armed robbery, and shot and attempted to kill a woman after he followed her to a Motel 6. On January 2, 2019, an illegal alien shot and murdered California officer Ronil Singh, a story that captivated the attention of the country. On November 13, 2018, an illegal alien shot and killed three people in Missouri after he was released on domestic violence charges. This was Luis Perez, age 23, was the recipient of the DACA program in 2012 and 2014. So, time and again, Mr. Chair, we see circumstances where people illegally come into the possession of firearms. Each of these illegal aliens did not acquire these guns lawfully. Matter of fact, title 18 of the Federal Code says that it is always unlawful for an illegal alien to have a firearm. So, while I appreciate folks from my State of Florida coming and sharing their advice and their counsel to the Judiciary Committee, I think that the stories of other people who have been impacted by gun violence are relevant to our discourse because they speak to the fact that there are dangerous people who do illegal things who will have access to firearms. The question is what will ensure that that does not cause the massive amount of violence that we have seen in the country? So, I am encouraged by elements of legislation passed in my home State of Florida that focus on red flag circumstances, mental health, that look at people who go through our jails and do everything we can to ensure that when their time in incarceration is concluded, they don't go back to arsenals where they can do harm to themselves or others. As I review H.R. 8, it seems to me that there is nothing in the bill that would have stopped many of the instances that we have been discussed. Moreover, if we are really looking for solutions, maybe we ought to allow States to do what Florida did and analyze the impacts on our mental health system, recognizing that those systems are different across the 50 States. So, I hope that we will not adopt this federalization of deprivation of constitutional rights. I hope that we will allow our States to continue to innovate and find ways to keep communities safer. As we hear the stories and circumstances for those here, I hope we do not forget the pain and anguish and sense of loss felt by those all over the country who have been the victims of violence at the hands of illegal aliens. H.R. 8 would not have stopped many of the circumstances I raised, but a wall, a barrier on the southern border may have, and that is what we are fighting for. [Disturbance in the hearing room.] Chair Nadler. The gentleman will suspend. Everyone here is here as a guest of the committee, and no matter what you think of what any member of the Committee may say, or any witness, for that matter, you must not comment or otherwise demonstrate. Mr. Gaetz. Mr. Chair, may I have my time restored? Chair Nadler. Your time will be restored. Mr. Gaetz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Appreciate that. So, again, I think that was a rather instructive moment for the committee, Mr. Chair, because as we gather here in Washington, there are a divergent series of views and inputs and thoughts. My concern is that by adopting H.R. 8, we actually stifle the innovation that could lead to better public safety outcomes if we allowed States and local communities to deal with the challenges my great State of Florida has. So, again, I hope that we will deal with all the drivers of violence. The greatest driver of violence in the circumstances that I indicated was not the firearm. It was the fact that we have an immigration system that allows people to come here violently. We engage-- [Disturbance in the hearing room.] Chair Nadler. There will be no comments or demonstrations, please. Mr. Cicilline. Mr. Chair, point of order. Chair Nadler. Who is that? The gentleman from Rhode Island? Mr. Cicilline. Is there any Committee Rule or point of parliamentary inquiry? Is there any Committee Rule that prevents a Member of Congress from reciting false statements in a Committee hearing that are unsupported by the evidence? [Applause.] Mr. Cicilline. That are unsupported by the evidence or are Members of Congress entitled to just make things up in support of specious arguments. It is a parliamentary inquiry. Chair Nadler. I am not aware--off the top of my head, since I haven't researched this question, I am not aware of any such rule. I would also observe that the factuality of any statement is always subject to contest by someone who disagrees with it. At a hearing such as this, if a Member makes a statement that is not borne out by the facts, it is the prerogative of another Member, when his turn comes, to comment on that or to point out his opinion or her opinion as to its truth or falsity. Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Gaetz. Mr. Chair, I believe I still control the time. Mr. Chair? Mr. Collins. Mr. Chair? Chair Nadler. One moment. It is never permissible for Members of the audience to comment or vociferously to object. This is a hearing for Members of Congress and for the witnesses. Everyone else is here as an observer and must not participate in any way, other than by observing. Mr. Collins. Mr. Chair? Chair Nadler. The gentleman from-- Mr. Collins. Mr. Chair, I make a point of order against the gentleman from Rhode-- Chair Nadler. You make what? Mr. Collins. I make a point of order that the gentleman's words were unparliamentary because they implied the lying or the falsehood of a Member. Now, if he wants to go there, we will take the words down. Chair Nadler. I would Rule the gentleman's point of order not well taken because it was not an accusation. Mr. Collins. Didn't he say-- Chair Nadler. Excuse me. Let me finish. It was not an accusation of falsity by another Member. There was simply an inquiry as to rules regarding that subject. Mr. Collins. Did he not make the statement that he was asking if the Member was making--or how to stop a Member from false statements? Did he, or did he not? Chair Nadler. My recollection--we could have it read back, but I don't think that is necessary--is that he simply asked about the rules that we use when a Member, if a Member makes a false statement, which is an inquiry. It is not a direct accusation that a Member made a false statement. Mr. Collins. Well, Mr. Chair, I would just recommend that that line got so buckled up that there was no way to see if it were crossed. Chair Nadler. I am sorry. I didn't understand-- Mr. Collins. That he got so close to that line that he couldn't tell if he was over it or not. So, I think we need to continue to watch. We will let the gentleman continue, but this needs to happen in an orderly way. We have differences of opinion. Those differences of opinion need to be expressed. When those differences are messed up, we need to stay in a parliamentary procedure. This is not going to result in just complete yelling and accusing of each other. That is what your time is for. Chair Nadler. Well, the yelling is out of-- Mr. Collins. He has got 5 minutes coming up. He can say whatever he wants to say. Chair Nadler. The yelling is out of order, obviously, yelling by Members of the audience. The inquiry by a Member did not violate the rules because it was not a direct accusation against another Member. How much time does the Member have left? Mr. Collins. I do have one secondary parliamentary question. Chair Nadler. The gentleman will State his parliamentary inquiry. Mr. Collins. As has been stated in the past, Mr. Chair, when Members of the audience disrupt this, they are typically escorted out. Is that going to be the position of this chair, or are we going to continue to allow it? Chair Nadler. Clause (2)(k)(4) of Rule XI provides that ``The chair may punish breaches of order and decorum by censure and exclusion from the hearings. This Rule has been construed to afford the chair the discretion to enforce decorum in the Committee room, including to remove disruptive Members of the public.'' My preference is not to invoke this response at this time, but please consider this a warning. Mr. Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Gaetz. Mr. Chair, I have a point of parliamentary inquiry. Chair Nadler. The gentleman will State his point of parliamentary inquiry. Mr. Gaetz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, is there a process in the Committee whereby if the very same people are repeatedly interrupting the time of the Members, that those people will be asked to depart the committee, or is there-- [Disturbance in the hearing room.] Chair Nadler. I will--excuse me. If the gentleman repeats that or any other comment, I will direct to be removed. I will direct to be removed if he repeats it. Mr. Gaetz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would observe that is three interruptions of my time by the same individual and that the chair is not utilizing his discretion to remove that individual. I believe I have about a minute of time remaining, and I wanted to take the time-- Mr. Deutch. Will the gentleman yield for a--will my friend yield for a question? Mr. Gaetz. I typically do, my friend from Florida. Since my time has been so interrupted by Members of the other side, perhaps you could have one of your colleagues yield time to you. Mr. Chair, may I inquire as to the time I have remaining because I believe it was about a minute and 12 seconds. Chair Nadler. The gentleman has 1 minute, and 37 seconds left. Ms. Jackson Lee. You need to clear the clock. Mr. Gaetz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that. Chair Nadler. The gentleman will proceed. Mr. Gaetz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. We all are entitled to our own opinions and views on how to address gun violence, but I don't believe that we are entitled to our own facts. While I have great personal affection for the gentleman from Rhode Island, it is deeply troubling to me and hurtful that as I share the experiences of people who have lost sons and daughters, who have lost friends and neighbors at the hands of violent illegal aliens who have illegally acquired firearms, then my colleague would indicate that is somehow lying or making misrepresentations to the committee. So, if my colleagues on the other side of the aisle have solutions for gun violence or to secure our border and to make sure that illegal aliens don't come into possession of firearms, I am eager to hear those. In your debate with me, please don't demean or diminish the pain and suffering, the humanitarian consequences, the violence, the bloodshed that has occurred because we allow illegal aliens to come into our country, receive the veils of protection, benefit from policies of catch and release that my friends on the other side of the aisle haves supported, and then come here and Act like that is the great challenge of our day to deal with gun violence. If we really cared about safer streets, we would build a wall and secure the border, and we would do it post haste. I thank Chair for his indulgence, and I yield back the balance of my time. Ms. Jackson Lee. Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Chair? Chair Nadler. The gentlelady will State her parliamentary inquiry. Ms. Jackson Lee. I will direct it not at any particular Member. I do think in this Committee that we should--the parliamentary inquiry is the caution of making sure that we do not have broad labels of immigrants, African Americans, women, as we debate. We have a right to a disagreement but is there any rules that confine us to not labeling individuals, such as the term ``illegal immigrants,'' which is a vast term of individuals, including women and children. Chair Nadler. I don't think that is a proper parliamentary inquiry. Ms. Jackson Lee. I thank Chair. I will pursue it in another manner. Thank you. Chair Nadler. Thank you. The next witness is--no, no. Mr. Cohen? Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir. Quite a while to get to me. Exciting moments here. Ms. Thomas, let me ask you a few questions. You are familiar with most of the mass killings in this country of recent history? Ms. Thomas. A fair number, yes. Mr. Cohen. Of the ones that are some noted here. I might be missing some. At Thousand Oaks, there were 12 people killed. There were 17 at Parkland; 25 in Sutherland Springs, Texas; Mandalay Bay, 58; Orlando, 49; San Bernardino, Charleston, Aurora, Sandy Hook, and Virginia Tech. How many of those people came across our southern border and they committed those crimes? Ms. Thomas. To my knowledge, none of those. Mr. Cohen. None of those people were illegal aliens? Ms. Thomas. Not to my knowledge, no. Mr. Cohen. I got the impression. I got confused. I thought illegal aliens, when they got in, they went straight to a taco shop, got a gun, and started killing people. That doesn't happen? Ms. Thomas. Not that I am aware of. Mr. Cohen. What do you think is the best way to help reduce gun violence in this country? Ms. Thomas. I think that H.R. 8 is absolutely the right first step to closing this gaping loophole in background checks. I think once H.R. 8 is passed, there is a number of steps that this Congress can take to adequately address and reduce gun violence in America. We know for sure that States that have comprehensive regulation of guns have far lower rates of gun violence than States that have very lax gun regulations. We can look at a wide range. Today, we have been talking about regulation through extreme risk protective orders. We have been talking about age limits on guns. We are talking about very dangerous lethal weapons. We are talking about proper funding of research and CDC. I can go on. My testimony includes a wide range of possible angles that this Congress can consider to reduce gun violence in this country, almost all of which have research showing that positive impact. Mr. Cohen. You are familiar with Everytown for Gun Safety that grew out of the shootings and up East? Ms. Thomas. Yes. Mr. Cohen. They made this their top priority, that we should be passing H.R. 8. This legislation will require background checks on all gun sales. Do background checks on gun sales also relate to less domestic shootings and domestic disturbances? Ms. Thomas. Yes, absolutely. H.R. 8 would not only keep guns out of the hands of individuals who shouldn't have them that are already prohibited, including domestic abusers, it also creates the appropriate floor so that if we expand categories of domestic violence, as was suggested by other witnesses, that we can continue to reduce domestic violence incidents and force all gun sales to include a background check to keep those guns out of those dangerous hands of domestic abusers. Mr. Cohen. In Memphis, Tennessee, there were 176 deaths because of homicide in 2018. Two hundred and--90 percent of those were result of gunfire. Do you think the people of Memphis could expect a reduction in that rate if we pass H.R. 8? Ms. Thomas. It is hard to say that one law alone is going to have a specific impact in one place. We know that starting with closing this loophole and passing universal background checks and then looking to the specific opportunities to expand upon that absolutely will reduce gun violence. I think urban centers have particular issues that we can look at. We have been looking very closely at intervention and prevention strategies that particularly address the problems of urban centers and are shown to be incredibly effective, reducing gun violence of up to 70 percent. So, I think looking at the specific issues that face a city is a very important way to proceed, but this is the right way to start. Mr. Cohen. Charleston, South Carolina, had the horrific church shooting. Did the perpetrator of that mayhem and murders, did that person pass a proper background check, do you know? Ms. Thomas. No, he did not. There was something that happened in that case called the default proceed, where individuals who don't have the background check completed within 3 days, the dealer has the opportunity to transfer that weapon even without completion of the background check. In this instance, that individual would not and should not have passed a background check. Mr. Cohen. So, indeed, if H.R. 8 were the law, there is a goodly chance or a chance that an individual would not have gotten a gun, and those church people would still be alive? Ms. Thomas. That is the hope. We also need to look at closing that default proceeds loophole and expanding the time available to complete background checks in instances where it is unclear whether that person should be entitled to have a gun. Mr. Cohen. Thank you for your work. Thank you for all the people that have testified. Mr. Thompson, it is just astonishing to me that background checks is something I think over 90-some odd percent of the public is supportive, that almost every organization concerned about this thinks it will help. We need to reduce this and not have more moments of silence and deep thoughts and prayers. We have had enough of that. We need action. Thank you, and I yield back the balance of my time. Chair Nadler. I thank the gentleman. I now yield 5 minutes to Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to say on this side, thank you to all the witnesses, all of you. It takes real courage and courage of conviction to do what you are doing here today. There is a lot of passion in the room, and it is understandable. We get that. I think it is important for us to say here that every single person in this room wants to end the tragedy of gun violence in our country. We just have policy differences on what is the best means to achieve that end, and that is what this is. So, it is a healthy debate, and that is what our constitutional republic is founded upon is healthy debate. So, I am glad you respect that. Look, we just think that this particular bill is not an effective step to achieving that desired end. That is what it boils down to. In fact, we think it is going to be counterproductive. We are trying to explain that in some of our questions, and we will do it during the markup as well. My questions are for Professor Malcolm. Thanks for being here. At first, I have just a couple of questions regarding the foundational principles of the Second amendment because I am afraid we are losing some of that. Then, second, I want to ask you about effective application of the Second Amendment. Let me get to the foundational principles. It is important for us to note what the Second amendment is based upon, and you have written extensively about the Second amendment and about how it is based upon and protects our preexisting right. The Second amendment doesn't say, for example, that people shall be permitted to be armed for their defense. It doesn't confer rights. The Second amendment presupposes the right and clarifies that it shall not be infringed. The question is why is that? Well, you have written that Sir William Blackstone, for example, noted that gun rights are rooted in the natural right, the natural right of resistance and self-preservation. Indeed, your scholarship notes the right of self-defense was generally understood in the 18th century by everyone as the first law of nature. Of course, our Founders listed it first in the Declaration of Independence's triumvirate of our inalienable rights. So, the question is Professor, when you discuss this with your constitutional law students or when you talk to lay people about it, how do you convey and emphasize the importance of the underlying principle of the Second Amendment? Dr. Malcolm. Yes, the underlying principle was that this was your most fundamental right, your right to protect yourself. It is something that the law could not take away. Blackstone, who was the great jurist that our Founders were so influenced by, said that no country could take away, no government could take away the right to self-defense. It is not much comfort for the law to come later and pick up the pieces, and that is what has happened in a lot of the cases that we have heard about. I mean, there are people that deserve to have some means of protecting themselves, and that really is the core of the Second Amendment. That it is the right to your individual self-defense. As I mentioned before that the police, however much they might want to protect us, can't possibly protect everybody. So, the best way for anyone who is in danger to be able to protect themselves is through some means of protecting themselves, having a weapon. I think that is what the Second amendment was all about and what the Founders understood it to be and what still needs to have happen. Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. It is fundamental, and it is foundational. Indeed, when we apply that right, it can be very effective. In your written testimony, you noted that there has been an overall decline in firearm homicide since 1991, which correlates with the the current number of 39 States that have granted concealed carry permits, for example, on a shall issue basis. My home State of Louisiana is one, and I have one of those. Do you believe that when States allow trusted, law-abiding citizens to exercise their constitutional rights through ``shall issue'' provisions and others like it that gun violence can, indeed, be prevented? Dr. Malcolm. Well, it certainly has worked in those States. There has been more gun violence because more people have guns. They have been able to protect themselves, and people who want to harm someone else don't know who is armed and who isn't. So, it really is a help that they are in the dark about it. It is a help that some people are prepared to protect themselves. It has not resulted in more gun violence. In fact, we have heard today that some of the increase in homicides from guns has been from suicide. So, it not law- abiding citizens who need to protect themselves that are causing any problem. It is people who are getting illegal guns, and that seems to be what the real issue is. Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Last question because I am running out of time. The Heller court made clear that this is an individual right and that this right is fundamental and sacrosanct. Do you believe Heller provides us with enough protection against ill-conceived legislation that may be well intended, but that may run afoul in that Second amendment right. Dr. Malcolm. Well, Heller really does. But there are some of the lower courts have really not been respecting Heller and have been really ignoring what the Supreme Court was very explicit about. So, I am really glad now that the Supreme Court seems to be willing to take a case on cert and get back into it because, otherwise, the Second amendment just becomes what Justice Thomas called a ``constitutional orphan.'' We have this Second amendment right. It is important for all. You can't just obliterate and ignore the Supreme Court without doing damage generally to all of our rights. Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. I am out of time. I yield back. Thank you. Thank you all. Ms. Scanlon. [Presiding] We will recognize the gentleman from Georgia next. Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to begin by thanking all the panelists who are here today. To Aalayah and the men and women in the room who have been personally touched by gun violence, I thank you for your bravery. Bearing witness to senseless acts of violence, you are helping to make our world a safer place. Thank you. The failure of Congress to pass universal background check legislation has eroded our sense of safety on our streets, in our schools, and even in our places of worship. Because background checks are not requested for sales by unlicensed gun dealers, guns end up in the hands of dangerous people who are barred by law from owning a gun. In 2018, on the online site armslist.com, there were 97 online posts by unlicensed firearms dealers from Gwinnett County, Georgia, which is part of my district. They were advertising guns for sale. That represents potentially at least 97 guns being sold to 97 violent criminals or certified mentally ill individuals, those guns ending up in other locations throughout the country. Mr. Chair, we can do better than this--or Madam Chair, we can do better than this. I want to thank you for making--I want to thank Chair Nadler for making gun violence a subject of his very first Committee meeting as chair, thus sending the message to the people of America that we are serious about common-sense gun reform. Now, I am going to yield the balance of my time to a woman who has been personally aggrieved by the destructive effects of the gun violence epidemic that plagues America. I yield the balance of my time to my friend and colleague and original cosponsor of H.R. 8, Congresswoman Lucy McBath. I do want to recognize the efforts of the sponsor of H.R. 8, Mike Thompson, who sat through this hearing. Thank you for being here. Also, Congresswoman Robin Kelly, who is a cosponsor, original cosponsor on H.R. 8. Thank you both for being here. Congresswoman McBath, I yield my time to you. Mrs. McBath. Thank you so much, Congressman Johnson and Chair Nadler and to all the witnesses that are here today. Many of you know, gun violence is an issue that is deeply personal for me. In 2010--excuse me, 2012, my son Jordan Davis was shot and killed by a man who opened fire on a car of unarmed teenagers at a gas station in Jacksonville, Florida, and Jordan was only 17 years old. Jordan would be turning 24 this week, February 16th. After my son's death, I dedicated my life to advocating for common-sense gun safety solutions, but it was the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, that year that finally motivated me to run for Congress. Yesterday, I brought Jeff and Margaret Binkley to the State of the Union as my guests. Just 3 months ago, the Binkleys experienced a tragedy that no parent should ever have to endure. Their daughter, Maura Binkley, was killed when a man entered a yoga studio in Tallahassee, Florida, and shot six people, killing two, before taking his own life. Maura had a bright future ahead of her and was eager to do good work in the world. Her dreams were cut short by a hateful man with a firearm, and she was only 21. Far too many families experience tragedies like ours every single day. The pain of losing a child to gun violence never ends, and it is in that pain that drives me to do this work to prevent gun violence. These stories are vitally important as we work to pass common-sense safety legislation to keep families like ours from experiencing the horror and heartbreak brought on by gun violence. The Binkleys believe that a policy solution could prevent killings like the death of their daughter. They have become advocates for extreme risk laws called--often called red flag laws. That these laws can prevent both murders and suicides by temporarily removing weapons from those who are a danger to themselves and to others. Our community and our Nation cannot wait any longer for common-sense gun safety solutions like extreme risk laws and universal background checks. I look forward to discussing this issue further during my time for questions. Thank you. Ms. Scanlon. The chair recognizes the gentleman from Arizona. Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank all the panelists for being here today and the Members of the audience for being here. My question is for Savannah. Savannah, I am sorry for the violence that you experienced in your life, and I want to just ask a couple of questions regarding your experience with the guns. You indicated in your testimony that you were an owner of guns. When did you first get a gun, and what did you do to learn how to use it, et cetera? Ms. Lindquist. Yes. So, my grandfather, I called him Pop Pop, he was always really into like firearms, target training, all that kind of stuff. So, it is something I grew up around, and I always thought it was really interesting. When I was probably like 8 or 9, I went to him and was like, ``I want to do this.'' He said, okay, well, you are a child. So, you have to prove that you are responsible enough for this. He gave me--you have probably purchased a handgun. It comes with an instruction manual, basically. He made me read that cover to cover, and he quizzed me on it. It was only after that, he let me even pick up a BB gun. Then, after safety training, I had to be able to take it apart, put it back together, all that kind of stuff. That is when he said okay, now I will teach you how to shoot a handgun at our local range. So, hit is something, that was probably when I was 10, and I am 24 now. So, it has been about 14 years. Mr. Biggs. So, before you went away to college, you had been using and been trained in using a gun for many years? Ms. Lindquist. Yes, sir. Mr. Biggs. When you went to college, you left home? Ms. Lindquist. I did. I moved to Philadelphia from Norfolk, Virginia. Mr. Biggs. Okay. Did you take any guns with you? Ms. Lindquist. I did not. It would have been illegal for me to have it on my college campus. Even transporting it could have been an issue because I couldn't obviously drive it through Maryland, given their firearm laws. But no, I didn't want to break the law. So, I left it at home. Mr. Biggs. So, you made a statement in your written testimony that you said, ``I obeyed the law as a responsible gun owner, and it ended with me being raped. I am just one of countless examples of gun control benefitting assailants and making victims sitting ducks.'' I wonder if you would expand on that and tell us what you mean by that? Ms. Lindquist. Sure. So, in my situation personally, I was left defenseless. There was nothing I could have done. He snuck up behind me, and he attacked me, I am just a young woman, and at the time I weighed 100 pounds less than I do now. So, there was no fighting him off. So, that is what I mean in terms of my situation, but there are a lot of examples. Like one of the top ones that comes to my mind is Nikki Goeser, who there was a law at the time where you couldn't bring a firearm into a restaurant, and so she, as a law-abiding citizen, left it in the car, and her husband was shot and murdered in the restaurant, and she couldn't defend him. Mr. Biggs. Well, thank you for being here today, and I appreciate your willingness to come out and testify on a very emotional issue, and I am grateful for that. Ms. Lindquist. I appreciate that. Thank you. Mr. Biggs. I am going to Dr. Malcolm. Dr. Malcolm. Yes? Mr. Biggs. In conjunction with the testimony we just heard, in your written testimony, you said the FBI does not record defensive uses of guns? Dr. Malcolm. That is right. Mr. Biggs. Tell me why that is so. Dr. Malcolm. I am not sure why they don't do it. I think that even if they did record it, there are probably defensive uses of guns that are not reported to them because people are uncertain whether they would be somehow charged or not. But they don't record it. So, the only way we have a sense of the defensive uses of guns is through some surveys and sort of anecdotal evidence. Mr. Biggs. So, the national surveys that you cited--well, you don't cite them, you refer to, I should say. Dr. Malcolm. Yes. Mr. Biggs. You indicate what I would call a large range between 700,000 to 3.6 million defensive uses annually. Can you elaborate on that, please? Dr. Malcolm. As I say, it is very difficult to get these kinds of statistics. When the government tries to do that, people are even more cautious about not saying anything for fear that that they will in some way, run afoul of the law. Those defensive uses of guns are much, much greater than the number of people who are actually shot. Most of the people who defend themselves with guns, as I said, don't have to use it in any way. They just have to show they have it. There was an instance. You are going to run out of time. Mr. Biggs. Yes. So let me just--before you get there, let me ask this last question. You said since the high gun homicide deaths in 1991, there has been a steep decline. Dr. Malcolm. Yes. Mr. Biggs. Firearm homicides dropped by nearly half, but there is a slight uptick in the last couple of years. Expand, explain on that. My time is done. If she may answer the question? Dr. Malcolm. Yes. It has really been extraordinary as there was a peak in gun homicides in 1991 and over the last 20 years, it had gone down by nearly half, despite the fact that there were more people who were able to have and carry guns in their States, as more and more States began to have these special ``shall issue'' concealed carry weapons. So, I think it shows that, first of all, the guns are not causing the violence and, in fact, are probably helping to stop it and also allowing people to exercise their right to protect themselves. People are very--ordinary people are very responsible. It is not the people who are likely to commit a crime who are going to go through all these background checks or go through whatever process their State has. Ms. Scanlon. The gentleman's time has expired. Thank you. The chair recognizes the gentleman from Florida. Mr. Deutch. I thank the chairwoman. I thank our witnesses for being here. I thank Robin Kelly for your leadership. I want to start this morning by recognizing my constituents from Parkland who are in the hearing room today. Tony and Jennifer Montalto, Gina's parents; April Schentrup and Robert Schentrup, Carmen's mother and brother; Debbie Hixon, Chris Hixon's wife; Tom and Gina Hoyer, Luke Hoyer's parents; Mitch Dworet, Nicholas Dworet's father; Manual Oliver, father of Joaquin; and Fred Guttenberg, Jaime's father. I also want to recognize the families of Alyssa Alhadeff, Scott Beigel, Martin Duque, Aaron Feis, Cara Loughran, Alaina Petty, Meadow Pollack, Helena Ramsay, Alex Schachter, and Peter Wang. They are the surviving families of the 14 students and 3 adults who were killed at Marjory Stoneman Douglas nearly 1 year ago on February 14, 2018. Their pain and their loss are real, and it is immeasurable because their loved ones were gunned down, and it does not matter where that shooter was born. I want to recognize them today because in the year since that awful day, they have done everything that they can to make American communities safer from gun violence. Each family in its own way. To improve law enforcement response to warning signs, to get weapons of war off our streets, to expand access to mental health, to develop safer schools, demand background checks on all gun purchases. Stand up to gun corporations that control State legislatures and Washington to protect their profits and not protect American lives. The Parkland families have done all of this in response to their grief. They never signed up for this. They would do anything to change this. They don't owe us their service and advocacy. They don't owe us anything. Congress failed them. We didn't do our job. Today, the House Judiciary Committee is finally holding a hearing on gun violence, a crisis that kills 40,000 Americans every year. What I want to ask my Republican colleagues, is it still too soon? Is it too soon to talk about taking action to stop gun violence? Because that is what I heard after Marjory Stoneman Douglas, but it was already too late. As we start this important work, Madam Chair, I ask unanimous consent to enter statements into the record from Fred Guttenberg; Tony Montalto, and Stand with Parkland; Patricia Oliver and Change the Ref and March for Our Lives. Ms. Scanlon. Without objection, so entered. [The information follows:] ? MR. DEUTCH FOR THE RECORD ======================================================================= [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.015 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.016 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.017 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.018 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.019 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.021 Mr. Deutch. Aalayah, thank you for being here. Your classroom was attacked at MSD, but at March for Our Lives on March 24th, you spoke to hundreds of thousands, over a million people in DC, and at other events around the world, and you said, ``I am not only here to speak about school shootings, I am here to speak for the urban communities who have been speaking out about this way before February 14th.'' Student survivors like yourself and like the March for Our Lives advocates have been some of the strongest voices for change. Over the past year, you have met with young people from around the country. Tell us what you have learned in the meetings and the discussions and the friendships you have developed in places like Miami, Chicago, Baltimore, Los Angeles, and cities that face daily gun violence. Ms. Eastmond. I noticed that, it is hard to have these conversations. But, we have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. I noticed having these conversations, there is always an elephant in the room, and that is the urban communities. Nobody wants to talk about how to combat the issue of gun violence in urban communities when Black and brown youth are the number-one impacted youth by gun violence. So, that is one thing that I noticed, and I have just been working tirelessly to share my platform that I didn't ask to have with those marginalized communities because their voices are just as important as mine and my colleagues from Parkland. Mr. Deutch. They are, Aalayah, and thank you for using your voice to help lift up the voices of so many. Madam Chair, after February 14th, the Florida legislature passed bills to increase the minimum age for rifle purchases to 21 and passed extreme risk protection orders. States and local governments all around the country have taken action. Finally, the House of Representatives is about to act. Aalayah, you said during your testimony, ``I ask that you give my generation a chance.'' The important message today, as I see it from this seat looking out at this crowd, is that you don't need to ask for us to give you a chance. Your leadership and the young people who are here today and who have been energized around the country are providing the leadership that is making this happen. We are going to pass background checks because it is supported by over 90 percent of the American people, and it can help save a life. It is true, Chief. If only one life is saved, that is enough for me. It darned well ought to be enough for every single Member of this Congress. When we finish our work today, what the young people should know--and I will wrap up, Madam Chair, what the people here today in this crowd should know is that just as they are not going anywhere and will remain on this issue, in this fight because it is the fight for their lives, we will not stop either. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back the balance of my time. [Applause.] Ms. Scanlon. The chair recognizes the gentleman from Louisiana. I am sorry. Oh, I am sorry. Reading wrong. The gentleman from California? Mr. McClintock. Thank you, Madam Chair. This is not a new subject. We now have some 50 years of experience with gun control laws, and as Ms. Lindquist's testimony attests, we have found them extremely effective at disarming law-abiding citizens. We have found them extremely ineffective at disarming criminals, madmen, and terrorists. They end up creating a society where the law-abiding are unarmed and criminals are as well-armed as ever. I think our schools are a microcosm of such a society where the gunman is king. Fortunately, we have also a lot of experience with laws that do work. Executing murderers works. Locking up other gun predators until they are old and feeble works. Confining the dangerously mentally ill so that they can be treated works. Responsible armed citizens who can return fire works. These laws protected us well for many, many decades. I think depending on criminals and madmen to obey gun laws is delusional. In case after case, authorities have turned a blind eye to repeated complaints about violent and obviously mentally ill persons. MS-13 is not widely recognized for its meticulousness in obeying our gun laws, only their defenseless victims seem to be. Several States now forbid local law enforcement from turning dangerous criminal illegal aliens over to ICE for deportation. Instead, they are releasing them back into our communities, and these are the same States that make it tougher for law-abiding citizens to defend themselves. It seems to me no one gives a second thought to an armed guard at a bank. Now that guard is there to protect our money. Whenever anyone suggests armed guards to protect our children at our schools, it is met with hoots of derision. Seems to me that hardening security at schools has got to be backed up by armed force. Professor Malcolm, why shouldn't school employees who are trained and entrusted by their local sheriffs with concealed weapons permits be allowed to use those permits in our schools to defend our children and stop the next massacre? Dr. Malcolm. I think they should be. Not every teacher has to be. Clearly, those people who are willing to be trained or were Members of the military or police force should be there. They will be on the spot. It wasn't the gun laws or the Congress that let those children down at Parkland. It was the first responders who let them down and who knew that Cruz was dangerous and had gone to his house and been warned about him more than 45 times. They never put him on a background list. If he had been put on a background list, he could not have gotten a weapon. Even when they knew he had weapons, they did not disarm him. So, I think that background checks are fine so far as they go, but it is really important to have someone on the spot who will protect those children. Mr. McClintock. I think we also learned that depending upon law enforcement alone is not sufficient. Ms. Lindquist, I want to thank you for coming today. I once worked for Ed Davis. He was the legendary chief of the Los Angeles Police Department in the late '60s and '70s. Now that was during the time of the Manson murders, the SLA shootout, campus riots. He introduced such innovations as Neighborhood Watch and community-based policing that engaged private citizens, and it worked. During his tenure as chief, violent crime actually declined in Los Angeles while it was skyrocketing nationally. At the core, his philosophy was looking at law-abiding citizens and the police as being partners in upholding the laws that protect us. He fiercely opposed gun control laws because he viewed law- abiding citizens as an integral part of policing, and he saw them as the first line of defense against crime. How does your experience relate to that view? Ms. Lindquist. I think that I am not sure Neighborhood Watch, to be honest, would have helped me in the situation because it was him-- Mr. McClintock. My point is that that underlies a more fundamental philosophy that looks at law-abiding citizens as the first line of defense against crime. Ms. Lindquist. Sure. I certainly agree with that. Like I said in my testimony, I don't really want to get into the details of what happened. But it was him versus I, and it was a battle of strength, and obviously, I lost. So, yes, police are great, and I very much respect what they do. But sometimes seconds count. Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Ms. Scanlon. The chair recognizes the gentlewoman from California. Ms. Bass. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to follow up a word on my colleague over there, Mr. McClintock. Neighborhood Watch, I do think, provides a real opportunity for community Members to get involved. Ed Davis never believed in arming the Neighborhood Watch. I have a couple of questions for Ms. Latiker, and I want to address what I believe is a common stereotype of inner-city communities, in particular African-American communities, because it has often been said that the only time the community responds is when a police officer kills an African American and that when there is crime that takes place in our communities that we don't do anything. I know that you are one of those soldiers on the front line. I want to thank you for being here today. I know that you are also supposed to be in Canada. My good colleague Representative Robin Kelly told me about your work. I really wanted to ask you if you could talk about the work that you have done, what role can community-based organizations play in preventing crime and comforting those who have suffered from the impact? Then also what resources do you need from us? One, I have worked in communities for many years, and I often know that it is never considered newsworthy when we are doing marches, talking about crime, and trying to address the situation. Anyway, I would like for you to respond to what you are doing in the community and what we can do, as Members of Congress, to help you? Ms. Latiker. Well, first, thank you so much for that acknowledgment. As I sit here, I listen to the back-and-forth about gun violence, and to me, it leaves out the most important part. That is those who have to deal with it on a daily basis or a mom in my community who has lost two sons in 1 week because of gun violence. It seems it is always talked around about the people who are living there. Now you can imagine a block with 10 houses on it, and 6 of those houses have lost kids to violence so that there is no block anymore, there isn't any community anymore because all those families are hurting. Then one on the block steps up and says, ``I need to do something, and I want to help.'' Nobody wants to help because of the color of their skin or where they come from or where they live at or the conditions. So, you are fighting a losing battle, and I am speaking of myself personally here right now. You are fighting a losing battle not only to give hope to the people you are trying to help, but to the community that you live in because they believe that the violence is more prevalent than the hope is. Ms. Bass. Does your organization have funding? Ms. Latiker. No, ma'am. We all-- Ms. Bass. It is all volunteer? Ms. Latiker. --for 15 years. Yes, ma'am. We have seven dedicated volunteers. Not that we wouldn't want salaries, and we need it, but-- Ms. Bass. Well, how are you able to do that work with just volunteers? Ms. Latiker. Because some very generous people, donors, people who believe in what we do have supported us all these years, and foundations have helped us. We have never had a grant writer or anything like that. It doesn't come from that. I just want people to know before my time is up. It doesn't come from that. It comes from a sense of I am more afraid not to do anything, than I am to do something. Ms. Bass. Right. But I do think if communities had the resources-- Ms. Latiker. Oh, without question. Without question. Ms. Bass. It is not as though the communities are irresponsible and don't want to do anything. Thank you very much. Ms. Latiker. Thank you. Ms. Bass. Thank you very much for being here today. Ms. Thomas, I wanted to ask if you could very briefly, because I need to yield some of my time to my colleague here, Mr. Deutch. In a community like Chicago that has strong gun laws, it is the problem in the surrounding area. State of California, strong gun laws. We have out States that guns come in from. Could you very briefly respond to what the Federal Government could do to help? Then I am going to yield my time to Mr. Deutch. Ms. Thomas. One of the things that the Federal Government could do would be to properly fund ATF so they could do their job to better trace that trafficking of guns that happens across State lines and to pass a trafficking bill. We don't currently have a Federal bill which addresses the problem of gun trafficking. Ms. Bass. Thank you. Ms. Thomas. I think we need one. Ms. Bass. Thank you very much. I yield to Representative Deutch. Mr. Deutch. I thank my friend from California. I just wanted to set the record straight on one discussion. We have gone back and forth. There has been a lot of talk about Justice Scalia and the Heller case and Blackstone, and it is just important, actually, as we have these discussions, to be honest about what we are trying to do. The fact is that every single proposal that has been made in the gun safety area is entirely constitutional. Don't take it from me. Take it from Justice Scalia, who said, and I quote, ``Like most rights, the right secured by the Second amendment is not unlimited.'' From Blackstone through the 19th century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever, in any manner whatsoever, and for whatever purpose. That is the language we need to bear in mind as we have this debate. We cannot be fooled by those who suggest that what we are trying to do is unconstitutional. What we are trying to do is constitutional. It is just, and it will save lives. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Scanlon. Okay. The gentleman's time has expired. I ask for the committee's unanimous consent that the following items be added to the hearing record. We have a letter from Prosecutors Against Gun Violence, co-chaired by Michael Feuer, the Los City Attorney, and Cyrus Vance, Jr., Manhattan District Attorney, in support of Bipartisan Background Checks Act of 2019. We have letters from Massachusetts Seventh Congressional District elected officials, including Boston Mayor Martin J. Walsh, local advocates, and constituents, presented by Representative Ayanna Pressley. We have a 2019 report from Everytown for Gun Safety concerning Internet sales of firearms and the background check loopholes that allow Internet to occur without any background checks. Without objection, these letters will be added to the hearing record. [The information follows:] ? MS. SCANLON FOR THE RECORD ======================================================================= [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.023 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.024 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.025 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.026 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.027 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.028 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.040 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.041 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.042 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6360.043 Ms. Scanlon. Now as was announced previously, the Committee will now recess until 1:00 p.m. I want to thank our guests in the audience for joining us, for joining us today, and I want to let them know that if they leave during the break, they will not be guaranteed their seats when they return. We have many people outside who would like to come in, and we want to give everyone a chance, an opportunity to watch today's hearing. So, with that, the Committee will stand in recess until 1:00 p.m. [Recess.] Chair Nadler. The Committee will come to order. Next I will recognize the gentlelady from Arizona, Ms. Lesko. Ms. Lesko. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to tell the testifiers and the people that came today, I sincerely appreciate all of you coming here. Especially those of you that are victims of domestic or sexual violence or gun violence and those that have lost people. I mean, I believe, that all of us whether we are Republican or Democrat, I hope you realize that we all care. We want to reduce gun violence. Sometimes there is just a difference in opinion of how we get there. Mr. Chair, I also want to join with Ranking Member Representative Collins in saying how disappointed I am that you did not allow Congressman Scalise to come testify today and, quite frankly, he was wounded and is still recovering and that is different than the other Members that you said wanted to come testify, and you did not have time for. So, I am still wondering why and what happened. Also, Mr. Chair, I just want to explain to you something that earlier when the gentleman, who I feel very sorry for, he lost someone from gun violence. He repeatedly got up and disrupted. It intimidated me, and it intimated, I was told, one of the witnesses here. So, that is why I think it is important that we do not let that continue to happen. I grew up in a family. I did not have guns. My father was in World War II and after he was in World War II, he quit hunting, and we did not have any guns. So, I did not know much about them. I had an irrational fear of guns. So, I have been there. I have been there with some of you that have never shot a gun. Have never experienced it. But, then I started educating myself and realized that when you make all these laws, a lot of them are unenforceable. But also, it is the criminals that do not follow the laws, right. Law-abiding citizens follow the laws. So, if you are trying to stop gun violence, and most of the gun violence is caused by people that do not follow the laws, you are not really getting a solution that you want. I am a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. I am also a survivor of domestic violence. So, I appreciated the testimony on that and want to share with you that there are people like me out there that have been victims, but we also want to be able to defend ourselves. So, I hope that you go away with realizing that we all want to solve this problem. I have to share with you that the Department of Justice, in a recent January 2019 report of prison inmates, they were interviewed, and the ones that used guns in their crime, 56 percent of them stated they obtained their gun by stealing it or by underground. Another 25 percent, so almost all of them, legally obtained it from a family member. So, I guess what I am trying to say to you is that when you have well intentioned laws, and I believe you really believe that the background checks are really going to save peoples' lives, but you will see that most of the people that committed the crimes actually stole the guns. Stole the guns. Got them from family Members. So universal background checks will not help in most of those situations. I also studied all the major mass shootings quite intensely and realized that not one single one of them would have been prevented from a universal background check. I mean I went through all the details. I asked all the questions. I do think there are many ways that we can reduce gun violence, and we have done it here in a bipartisan fashion. Last year, or in Fiscal Year 2018, we passed legislation that helps prevent violence in our schools, very important. We also wanted to protect in fifths, the National Instant Criminal Background Check, which is the system where these backgrounds are actually, you find out, and we found out through studies that a lot of the states and agencies do not even report the information. Chair Nadler. The time of the gentlelady has expired. Do you have a quick question? Ms. Lesko. Oh, yes. I do. Thank you very much. [Laughter.] Ms. Lesko. Mr. Nadler, I just want to say to Ms. Lindquist, thank you for being here. Can you please explain again, how these well-intentioned laws actually hurt you from allowing you to defend yourself? Chair Nadler. Witness will answer the question. Ms. Lindquist. So, I do want to say, thank you for speaking publicly about being a survivor of domestic violence. It is terrible that anyone goes through that, but it can feel very alone. So, it is great to see people in positions of power talking about it. So, the law that specifically disarmed me in the State of Pennsylvania where I was going to school, college was a gun- free zone. So, you could not have firearms of any kind unless, of course, you were the police. Also, like I said, I live in Virginia and originally went to undergrad in Pennsylvania which would require driving through Maryland which would make me immediately a felon. So, it is a combination of those two things. Chair Nadler. The time of the gentlelady is expired. The gentleman from Rhode Island, Mr. Cicilline. Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank our witnesses for being here and for many people who are in the audience. Your testimony is incredibly inspiring and invaluable, and I cannot overstate the importance and urgency of this hearing, and I want to thank Chair for his leadership. This is the first hearing in the U.S. House of Representatives on gun violence prevention in nearly a decade. We have a gun violence epidemic in this country. In some disproportionately impacted communities, persistent instance of gun violence has become a fact of life and are endangering the public health of these communities. Over the last eight years while Congress was ignoring this problem, the gun death rate has risen by 17 percent, the gun suicide rate by 19 percent, and the gun homicide rate by 14 percent. The gun rate hit a nearly 20-year high in 2017 and roughly 40,000 deaths, according to the CDC. U.S. is now the world leader in child gun deaths, with death by gunshot being the second highest cause of death among children ages 1 to 19. On average, the number of Americans murdered by a firearm has risen to approximately 100 every day or another nearly 300 are shot. Mr. Chair, I just noticed that the time was not reset. So, Mr. Chair? I do not think the time was ever corrected from the last person speaking over. Chair Nadler. It appears to be a mechanical problem there. Mr. Cicilline. I will keep going and trust you to be fair. Each of these statistics is another example of this body's shameful failure to protect Americans from gun violence. Behind each number is a real family devastated by this epidemic. Despite our many efforts over the last years imploring Republicans to enact common sense gun safety legislation, all we could ever muster, was 30 seconds of doing nothing and saying nothing in a moment of silence. It was hearing your response to many of the deadliest mass shootings our country has ever seen. Think about what that means. Congress did nothing when children were massacred at Sandy Hook Elementary School. At Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School and Santa Fe High School. When worshippers were gunned down in Charleston, Oak Creek, Southern Springs, and Pittsburgh. When people were hunted down and killed in a nightclub in Orlando, in a movie theatre in Aurora and a country music concert in Las Vegas. In some of these cases, the gunman would have failed a background check but got a gun anyway. In others, the gunman lawfully possessed deadly, military-style assault weapons or high- capacity magazines endangering our communities and belong in the battlefields not in our neighborhoods. In all of them, Congress could have taken action to try and prevent these tragedies from happening again. It is imperative that we do all that we can to keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have them and give law enforcement the tools they need to protect the public. That is why I have introduced several bills to prevent children, violent persons, and criminals from accessing guns. A bill to ban assault weapons and dangerous bump stop devices. Legislation requiring states to establish reporting systems for mental health professionals when individuals that have committed or communicate a serious threat of violence. Government funding to the CDC to research firearm violence as a public health issue. The American people are completely fed up with this institution's willful neglect in leaving them to suffer in the face of a clear epidemic. You are demanding that we finally do something before another horrible tragedy happens and before another dangerous weapon ends up in the wrong hands. It is long overdue for Congress to prevent further senseless violence from occurring. We know what the solutions are. It is time to act. The notion that there is not a single bill that, if passed, will eliminate all gun violence that we should do nothing, is an absurd justification for inaction. The truth is there are a whole set of bills that if we pass, will substantially reduce gun violence in this country. This bill, H.R. 8 is the first step, and I want to thank Mr. Thomson, the chair of the task force, Robyn Kelly, Katherine Clark, many of my colleagues who have been great champions of these issues. We have a responsibility to make sure that we keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have them. We know background checks work. Three-and-a-half million people have been blocked as prohibited purchases from buying a gun because of background checks. Yet, 22 percent of gun sales happen without a background check. So, imagine how many gun sales happen that prohibited purchases get because of this loophole because there is no background check. So, H.R. 8 is the beginning, but I want to begin my question to Aalayah Eastmond, and first say, we owe you an apology. We owe your whole generation an apology. The adults have failed you, and I am here to tell you, I was a founding member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns when I was mayor of the City of Providence. I have continued to fight on this issue. We are going to deliver results, and it is because of the voices of young people who have demanded that we do our job and pass common sense laws that will protect you. So, I want to say thank to you and to all the young people who are here. I want to say thank you to the chief. I would like to ask the chief and the doctor to talk a little bit about what your observations are about high-capacity magazines, assault weapons and the injuries that are sustained. Chair Nadler. The time of the gentleman is expired. We will permit one witness to answer the question. Mr. Cicilline, which witness? Mr. Cicilline. Oh my, the doctor or the police chief? [Laughter.] Mr. Cicilline. I guess the doctor. My mother always wanted me to be a doctor. [Laughter.] Dr. Sakran. All right, great. Well thank you for that question, congressman. It is a really important one, because, we as healthcare professionals are on the frontline of seeing this day in and day out. When you see these patients come in, we are seeing the full spectrum of where there is tissue that is pulverized, where there are flesh wounds, where people are bleeding to death in front of our eyes. Medical technology is great, but the solution is really prevention. So, we owe it to Americans to really think beyond the operating room, to think beyond the hospitals, to implement some common sense change. Chair Nadler. Thank you. The time of the gentleman is expired. Mr. Reschenthaler? Mr. Cicilline. Mr. Chair, I just have a unanimous consent request. Chair Nadler. The gentleman will State his unanimous consent request. Mr. Cicilline. I ask unanimous consent to introduce into the record, a Washington Post article, entitled ``It's Time to Bring Back the Assault Weapons Ban, Gun Violence Experts Say.'' Another article entitled, ``Why Can't the U.S. Treat Gun Violence as a Public Health Problem?'' Another article in the-- from the New York Times, ``Wounds from Military Style Rifles: A Ghastly Thing to See.'' A Vox article ``America's Unique Gun Problem Violence Explained in 17 Maps and Charts,'' and finally, ``Orders to Seize Guns from Prohibited Buyers at a 10- year High.'' Chair Nadler. Without objection, these documents will be admitted into the record. [The information follows:] MR. CICILLINE FOR THE RECORD ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chair Nadler. Mr. Reschenthaler? Mr. Reschenthaler. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As a lifelong resident of southwestern Pennsylvania and a gun owner myself, I know that despite what some of the people in this room may want you to believe, the overwhelming majority of American gun owners are hardworking, law-abiding citizens. These law-abiding citizens are simply looking to protect their families, hunt with their kids, or just put food on the table. That is why I am strongly opposed to H.R. 8 and other legislation that does nothing to address the root causes of gun violence like mental health. Instead, focus on limiting law- abiding citizens' ability to exercise their Second amendment rights. More gun bans are not going to solve this problem. The tragic shootings, in both San Bernardino and New Town, occurred in states that already had an assault weapons ban in place. I was in high school when Columbine occurred. The Columbine High School shooting took place during the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. More gun bans are not going to solve this problem. Instead, I would urge my colleagues across the aisle to focus on enforcing the laws we already have on the books to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, gang Members, and others who wish to do us harm. The Trump Administration has already made this a top priority. In the first nine months of 2017, Federal prosecutions for possession of an illegal firearm increased by 15 percent. The number of people charged with using a firearm in a crime also improved. Now compare that with the Obama Administration, which in 2010 prosecuted only 44 of nearly 50,000 fugitives and felons who attempted to illegally purchase firearms. Think about that. Only 44 out of 50,000. At the end of the day, the Constitution declares that gun ownership is not a privilege that is just for a select, reserve few. A protected and fundamental freedom guaranteed for all law-abiding citizens. With that in mind, I am very concerned about H.R. 8 which Democrats taut as Universal Background Checks Bill, but it is actually the first step toward creating a national gun registry. I know my friends from across the aisle will point to the fact that lines in the bill explicitly prohibit the creation of a national gun registry. However, the U.S. Department of Justice has said that universal background checks would only be enforceable, only be enforceable, if there is a mandatory national registration of firearms. So, with said, Professor Malcom, do you think the American people should be concerned that H.R. 8 would ultimately lead to a national gun registry? Dr. Malcolm. I think they do and should be concerned. Great Britain had a national registry for firearms, and at one point in 1999 they banned personal possession of a handgun. Because there was a registry, they were able to get all of the handguns that people owned, the law-abiding people who had actually registered them. Within 10 years, the crimes with handguns had actually doubled. So, it really did not take the guns away from the people who were going to misuse it. All it did was disarmed the law-abiding people. Mr. Reschenthaler. So, Professor Malcom, in your opinion, is H.R. 8 an effective way to address gun violence? Dr. Malcolm. I do not think so. This Committee obviously wants to do something that is going to make a difference and that law is not going to make a difference. It is just going to make it harder for people, criminalized people, who had innocently let someone else use their gun or must pay an extra fee to be able to get a gun legally transferred. Mr. Reschenthaler. Thank you, Professor Malcolm. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back the balance of my time. Chair Nadler. The gentleman's time is expired. The gentleman from California, Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Swalwell. Thank you to Chair, and I want to thank the students and parents who are here today. My congressional orientation was going on when Sandy Hook happened. As awful as that was, I thought it was an opportunity for us to finally do something about gun violence in America. After six years, from Sandy Hook to Pulse to Charleston and all the cities we have come to learn, we saw moments of silence followed by moments of inaction. Then Parkland happened. I do not know why Parkland changed the way that our country started to look at this. Maybe it is because the students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas could articulate what the beautiful babies at Sandy Hook could not, just the sense of loss, but their belief that you should have the right to learn, the right to go home, and the right to live in your classrooms. You have given us a renewed sense of hope. Even though last night at the State of the Union, you did not hear one single word from the President about gun violence. Despite all the people on the Gallery who had lost loved ones. Even the people he had brought were the common tool of their loss was a firearm. Not one word. That did not bother me, though, because I knew we would be here today. The first historic hearing in eight years on reducing gun violence. So, thank you for giving us hope. Thank you to Mike Thompson, my colleague, who has continued to believe that we can do better and that we can start with background checks, and I just want to first address an argument that my colleagues keep making, which is, this will not reduce every gun violence death in America. That is absolutely true. If that is your standard, then we should just all go home and never strive to do anything to make us safer in our communities. If we work together on background checks and mental health illness, which I believe is correctly identified as another issue. If we work together to study gun violence through research. If we make sure that in our cities, we are investing in gang prevention. If we reduce to take the most dangerous weapons, like assault rifles out of the hands of the most dangerous people, we can seriously reduce, in our lifetime, the number of families who would have to sit in the Gallery and experience that loss. So, thank you for being here. Thank you for giving us this renewed sense of hope. I want to also thank our law enforcement officers for what you do every day. My brother is a cop. My dad was a cop. I fear every day as they are out on the beat, that they are out gunned, and I know why you are here is to protect the men and women sworn in your departments. Dr. Sakran, you were at the State of the Union last night, and I was hoping you could talk about an issue that I am very passionate about, which is, having a ban on assault weapons. I learned as a prosecutor that when a round flies out of an assault weapon, oftentimes, because of the pistol grip you can indiscriminately spray a crowd and you do not have to be an expert shot. You are firing a much more powerful round than many of the other weapons that are out there. You have seen on your trauma room table, the difference from what damage this does to the body. Could you just describe why an assault weapon, if someone is hit with it, is different? Just why we should treat those differently than perhaps other weapons? Dr. Sakran. Sure, thank you for the question, Congressman. Thanks for your leadership. When someone is hit with a bullet from an assault weapon, in addition to causing damage to the structures that are actually being hit, there is also a blast effect that occurs. So, there is damage to the surrounding tissue. That damage is a lot more significant than you would see with a handgun, for example. We do everything we can to try to control hemorrhage and fix the damage to save lives, but that is not always possible. Mr. Swalwell. Thank you, doctor. I will never forget a trauma surgeon and a pathologist telling me when a victim that I had worked on his case, he was shot in the back of the thigh. 40 rounds fired at him just hit once in the back of the thigh and he passed away, and the pathologist and ballistics expert said it was just because of the sheer energy from the round. Also, I want to ask Ms. Thomas, thank you as well, Ms. Thomas for testifying. Australia enacted a comprehensive buyback on assault weapons. It was about 650,000 assault weapons. Are you familiar with the effects after that buy back in their country? When there were 35 people killed and 28 we wounded in 1996? Ms. Thomas. Yeah, in the Port Arthur Massacre. Following that legislation being passed, there has not been a single mass shooting that has occurred in Australia since that time. Mr. Swalwell. Thank you. I yield back. Chair Nadler. Thank you. Dr. Sakran, just yes or no, is the extra energy and the difference between being hit by an assault weapon, the assault rifle, and something else, is that because of the much greater velocity of the round from the assault weapon, from the assault rifle, than from a normal gun? Dr. Sakran. The kinetic energy that is being transmitted to the body-- Chair Nadler. That extra kinetic energy is because of greater velocity? Dr. Sakran. --velocity does have to do with kinetic energy, correct. Chair Nadler. Thank you very much. Mr. Cline is recognized. Mr. Cline. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have been up here a month and during the campaign, I have been in the legislature at the State level for 16 years, so I had pretty good idea of what the role of the State legislature was. At the Federal level during the campaign, I carried around what I call the instruction manual, the Constitution. I know that a lot of people like to talk about how, well, it is not that it would not have affected any of these mass shootings, but it is that if we can take steps to prevent one more shooting or one more criminal from illegally purchasing a firearm, then it is worth, essentially, doing what this document tells us we should not do, which is infringe on the rights of the people to keep and bear arms. So, it is important to remember that this is the instruction manual, and we need to keep it in mind as we talk about whether we are going to, essentially, violate it. So, what I would ask Professor, in your remarks, you mentioned that the Second Amendment, the framers bequeath to us as individuals, the right to keep and bear weapons and common use for self-defense and other lawful purposes. I would disagree with that the framers did not bequeath to us that right. God has given us that right, and ``We hold these Truths to be self-evident that all Men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.'' These rights are to be secured by Government. That is what this Constitution is for. So, to my question, do you think that criminals who have committed crimes and ignored the law are going to suddenly, miraculously follow new laws put in place that are going to prevent them from purchasing firearms without a background check? Dr. Malcolm. No, clearly they are not going to be bothered by it. If they are not going to obey the laws against harming people and shooting people, they are not going to be worried about trying to get a gun through a legitimate source or filing a background check. I mean, it is a shame, because I think this Committee could do really good work, but this particular law is not going to really help solve this problem. Mr. Cline. Thank you and to Ms. Thomas, I am reading your testimony and would ask you a similar question, do you believe that criminals who have ignored the laws--I mean you talk about 96 percent of inmates who were prohibited from possessing a firearm at the time they committed the crime--obtained a gun in violation of that prohibition. Do you believe that they are suddenly, miraculously going to follow a law to violate another law? Ms. Thomas. I believe that we need to pass H.R. 8 because it will actually enable the existing Federal law that is on the books to be properly enforced. We currently prohibit those individuals from acquiring firearms and they can very easily go online, go to a gun show, go to a parking lot, and buy a gun from an unlicensed seller. That seller is not breaking any law when they transfer the gun without a background check. So, we are not just talking about the buyer of the gun breaking the law. We are also creating a system where the sellers of firearms understand that part of that transfer must entail a background check as well. So, we are basically taking a law that exists, and we are making it actually applicable to all sales as it should be. Mr. Cline. Do you believe that a registry is necessary as part of that system? Ms. Thomas. This law, H.R. 8 prohibits a registry. Mr. Cline. Do you believe that a registry is necessary as part of that system? Ms. Thomas. I do not. I believe that H.R. 8 being passed is very important first step to reducing gun violence in America, and it prohibits a registry from being created. Mr. Cline. Do you believe that Heller was correctly decided? Ms. Thomas. I support the decisions of our Supreme Court. Mr. Cline. So, you think it was correctly decided? Ms. Thomas. I think that it overturned previous precedent, and we agree that there are some issues with the decision based upon its interpretation of the Second Amendment, but we support the decisions of our Supreme Court. Mr. Cline. Thank you. Mr. Chair, I yield back. Chair Nadler. Mr. Jeffries? Mr. Jeffries. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I thank all the witnesses for your presence here today. Let me begin with Professor Malcolm. The National Rifle Association opposes expanding background checks to cover firearm purchases at gun shows, true? Dr. Malcolm. The right to life--I did not get the first part of the, your-- Mr. Jeffries. The NRA. Dr. Malcolm. Oh, the NRA. Mr. Jeffries. You are familiar with that organization, correct? Dr. Malcolm. Yes. I did not--yes. Mr. Jeffries. They oppose a background check to cover the gun show loophole, true? Dr. Malcolm. There is almost no gun show loophole. Mr. Jeffries. Okay. Dr. Malcolm. Virtually, but they do not want a registry and they do not want--this would make it more cumbersome for people who would like to be able to get a-- Mr. Jeffries. You're claiming my time. I did not say anything about a registry. You oppose expanding the background check requirement for the gun show purchases, true? Dr. Malcolm. We are not just talking about gun shows. We are talking about making people in private sales to go through background checks and making the whole system much more cumbersome. Mr. Jeffries. I am asking you specifically about gun shows. Do you support expanding background checks to cover gun shows or not? Dr. Malcolm. There is almost no need for that. Mr. Jeffries. Okay, I take that as a no, thank you. In terms of expanding background checks for gun sales on the internet, the NRA opposes expanding background checks to cover such sales, true? Dr. Malcolm. I am really not privy to all of their decisions on these things. Mr. Jeffries. Okay, you oppose background checks as it relates to internet gun show sales, true? Dr. Malcolm. I would like to see the background check that we now have used properly. Now that is not because too many people are not put on that background check who ought to be. Mr. Jeffries. Okay, now you are the Patrick Henry Professor of Constitutional Law and the Second amendment at George Mason University. Is that right? Dr. Malcolm. Yes. Mr. Jeffries. Is it fair to say that this position is bought and paid for by the NRA? Dr. Malcolm. I do not know. Mr. Jeffries. Okay, this position was created in 2003, true? Dr. Malcolm. I do not know what the background is, but I will say that George Mason University has been very conscious of being sure that any contributions to the law school for any particular positions do not have any strings attached, and you can check with what the procedures are for that. Mr. Jeffries. Okay, now when the position was created, it was a direct result of a $1 million endowment from the National Rifle Association Foundation, correct? Dr. Malcolm. I was not at George Mason University in 2002. So, I really do not know the answer to that. Mr. Jeffries. Okay. Dr. Malcolm. You seem to have more information about it than I do. Mr. Jeffries. Okay, the NRA Foundation has continued to give money to the law school. Is that right? Dr. Malcolm. I assume so if that what's--if that was an endowment. Mr. Jeffries. Okay, I ask unanimous consent to enter-- Dr. Malcolm. You think that is funny. I really do not now. Mr. Jeffries. No, I did not laugh. I ask you--this is not a laughing matter. This is a gun violence epidemic that we have in America. Now, let me ask unanimous consent to enter into the record, the 990 forms from the NRA Foundation for the years 2012, '13, '14, `15, and '16. Chair Nadler. Without objection, the documents will be entered into the record. [The information follows:] MR. JEFFRIES FOR THE RECORD ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Jeffries. So, in 2012, the NRA Foundation gave $100,000 to the law school in connection with the position that you hold and for ``Second amendment study,'' correct? Dr. Malcolm. Well, I presume that they did, but they did not have anything to do with my particular job. Mr. Jeffries. Okay you-- Dr. Malcolm. I do not get a penny more for having that. Mr. Jeffries. Okay, you arrived in 2013. Is that right? Dr. Malcolm. Excuse me? Mr. Jeffries. You arrived in 2013? Dr. Malcolm. In 2006. Mr. Jeffries. You arrived-- Dr. Malcolm. I did not, but I did not have a chair until later. Mr. Jeffries. That is correct. In 2013, is that right? Dr. Malcolm. Yes. Mr. Jeffries. Okay now, in 2013, the NRA Foundation gave $100,000 to the George Mason University Law School for ``Second amendment study,'' true? Dr. Malcolm. Presumably, they did. Mr. Jeffries. In 2014, the NRA Foundation gave $100,000 to the George Mason University Law School for ``special grants other studies related to the Second Amendment,'' true? Dr. Malcolm. They have not subsidized anything that I have done. I was hired. I was given this chair, because I had already done serious work on the legal and constitutional background of the Second Amendment. Mr. Jeffries. Okay, what we found is that the NRA has given a million dollars to endow the position that you now hold, hundreds of thousands of dollars over the last several years, and the problem is, we can have a legitimate debate about how to deal with the gun violence epidemic, but it is hard to have that legitimate debate when the NRA functions as holding others who are supposedly participating in this debate like they are holy on subsidiaries. Not saying you are not, but we do know that in connection with the position you hold, it is funded by the National Rifle Association. I yield back. Chair Nadler. Thank you. The time of the gentleman has expired. There is a vote on the floor now. There are two votes on the floor. There are six minutes and 46 seconds remaining in the first vote, 363 people not having voted yet. The Committee will stand in recess until immediately after the second vote in this series, which will probably be in about 15 minutes. Members of the audience with advisors, there is no crowd outside, so you probably will not give up your seat if you walk out. [Recess.] Chair Nadler. The Committee will come to order. Continuing with questioning the witnesses. Mr. Collins. Mr. Chair, before we-- Chair Nadler. For what reason does the gentleman seeking recognition? Mr. Collins. I would just like to make some clarification. I know at the end there was some discussion concerning the effectiveness or lack of effectiveness therein by who or who may not maybe receive funds in a certain time, and I think one of the things we got to be very careful of here is every witness that comes here will come representing who they represent and from the areas that they do. Some of the witnesses here would not have probably been called if they had been participants in the political process for your side of the aisle or possibly my side of the aisle. These are things that happen, and they are disclosed. I think, throwing that out there, especially to witnesses or even other Members, implying that something changes for them, I think we need to be careful of. Otherwise, we can just start admitting the records of donations from groups that are justifying here today on contributions and everything else. We just need to keep this on level with people from their background, knowing their background, let us all have an honest argument without questioning the motives of or the trajectory of motives from folks that we have. With saying that, I yield back. Chair Nadler. I will now recognize the gentleman from North Dakota, Mr. Armstrong. Mr. Armstrong. Thank you, Mr. Chair. In my never-ending quest to educate people about the way we live in North Dakota, earlier this morning in H.R. 1, I was explain that we are the only State in the Nation without voter registration. So, in quest to solve problems in other areas, we actually make it more difficult to do things in my state. I will continue that a little bit here. I am going to talk particularly about the exceptions. It is obvious to someone who has spent his entire life hunting and whether it is bow hunting, up line game hunting a rifle, or big game hunting, that when people write exceptions to laws like this, we do it in a way that actually does not take into account the rural nature of places where I live. North Dakota is a beautiful place. I invite anybody to come there whenever they can. Probably not today. It is 35 below wind chill, but when we are talking about how we designate exceptions to this H.R. 8 we are talking about exclusively at shooting ranges, shooting galleries, or other designated areas, and in the noble goal of trying to end gun violence in other areas, I just want everybody to be aware that we are creating felons out every ranch--federal felons out of every ranching farm kid in North Dakota. We do not have designated shooting ranges. We do not have shooting galleries. We borrow our buddy a rifle to shoot in a stubble field, be it prior to them going hunting or whether it is pheasant hunting, whether it is deer hunting, whether it is any of those areas. So, when we are dealing with these issues, I want to make it perfectly clear that we are also creating significant burdens on a way of life to the entire Midwest population, not just in North Dakota. I actually want to thank Congress for a couple of things, and I can do this because I was not here when these passed, so it is not self-gratifying. H.R. 4477, which was the Fix NICS Act of 2017 was passed, and this is how we approach gun law in North Dakota has incredibly pro-Second amendment law, but what we do with our law enforcement and our State policy is absolutely go after prohibited people. We do everything we can to make sure law-abiding citizens can use their Second amendment rights, but we continually work with domestic violence groups, law enforcement to ensure that prohibited people do not have access to the firearms they are supposed to. The Fix NICS Act was something that we, even as a pro- Second amendment State as North Dakota, we have been utilized. Also, H.R. 4909, which is the Stop School Violence Act is provided programs that are utilized in North Dakota right now. Our rural schools, some of them have been in the 1950s. When we deal with school safety, we oftentimes it is not a matter of whether we have a school resource officer in one school in the community, we often do not have law enforcement that can respond within 45 minutes of some of our rural towns. So, these grants help us provide school safety in divided into these scenarios in which they exist at that point and time. So, I would like to thank Congress for those. I would argue, personally, that the Concealed Reciprocity Act, which has passed the House and has not gotten through the Senate is also way to help deter more gun crime. Finally, I just say as somebody who has practiced criminal defense in Federal court, I think just as matter of statutory construction, we should be a little careful about the number of adjectives that we use in the criminal code. Adjectives are a petri dish for trial lawyers and purely outside of any partisanship or anything else when we use a lot of ugly words, they tend to be litigated in front of 12 people very extensively. I do have one question for Ms. Thomas. When you were talking to Congressman Cline earlier, you were talking about this being an important Act and that without a registry, it does not matter. Under President Obama Administration, they received a White paper from Greg Ridgway and essentially the White paper says that these gun laws do not work without a national registry. So, my question is, was the Obama Administration wrong? Ms. Thomas. I am not sure exactly what you are asking, but if your question is whether or not it is appropriate to pass H.R. 8 without a registry, my answer would be yes, it is absolutely incumbent on us to pass H.R. 8 even though it prohibits a registry from being formed, because it will encompass a larger majority of background checks on all gun sales than what we have in place now. Mr. Armstrong. Okay and forgive me because my old criminal defense attorney mind is coming in place. Without the registry, how is it enforceable? Ms. Thomas. Because every sale and transfer of a gun requires a background check. So, when guns are recovered in crimes, it will be much easier for law enforcement to A, discover if guns had a background check on them and to trace them back to their original source. In that instance, it would be very easy to know if there was no background check conducted. Mr. Armstrong. I would ask for unanimous consent to offer this Summary of ``Select Firearm Violence Prevention Strategies'' by Greg Ridgway into the record. Chair Nadler. Without objection the document will be entered into the record. [The information follows:] MR. ARMSTRONG FOR THE RECORD ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Armstrong. I yield back my time, Mr. Chair. Chair Nadler. Thank you. Now I recognize the gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Raskin. Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chair, thank you very much. I want to first recognize my wonderful constituent, Andrea Chamblee who is here today. She lost her husband, John McNamara, in the terrible massacre that took place in Annapolis. He was a reporter and a celebrated editor of The Capitol Gazette. Thanks for joining us, Andrea, and that you stand for hundreds of people here today who have lost family Members and friends and hundreds of thousand across the country who are begging us to do something. Mr. Nadler, thank you for this hearing, which is extraordinary, because it is the first hearing on gun violence in more than 8 years in the House of Representatives. In that time, we have seen, not only the daily mounting, gruesome death toll in every community across America where 96 people die from gun violence every day, and 246 every day are shot and wounded, where eight children or teens die from gun violence every day, and where 39 young people are shot and wounded. Over the last eight years, we have seen six of the ten worst gun massacres in the history of the United States of America: The Las Vegas massacre with 58 dead; the Pulse Nightclub massacre with 49 dead; Sandy Hook, 20 kids and six grown-ups; Stoneman Douglas, 17 adults, and on and on. To the wonderful people who have assembled here today taking time off from school, off from work to come to bear witness to the people you have lost in your lives, I want to say that you are the repositories of the memories of your loved ones, but we are the repositories of the legislative memories of what have happened, what has happened here. We must never forget. I have only been here for two years, but I want to tell you, in that time, I saw several of those massacres, including the Vegas massacre and the Stoneman Douglas massacre, and we had not a single hearing on a universal, criminal background check. We had three hearings in this Committee with Diamond and Silk to talk about imaginary offenses online, and they brought us two bills, one the aforementioned bill, the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, a complete misnomer. It has nothing to do with reciprocity, it would demolish every state's concealed carry law so that if you can get a gun in the most permissive State in the Union, which I think is still Florida, where a million and a half people have the right to carry a loaded, concealed weapon, then you can go anywhere in the country. That is what they brought us. Oh, and they brought us one other bill which was to legalize silencers in America. That sounds not like a common-sense public safety agenda. That sounds like a mafia agenda to legalize silencers across the country. That is what we have dealt with from this Committee which is why today is such a remarkable breath of fresh air and why Americans across the country are looking at the House of Representatives with hope today. Now, the universal criminal background check is backed by more than 95 percent of the American people. The vast majority of Democrats, Republicans, Independents, and Gun owners. Everybody thinks that you should not be able to purchase a firearm in America if you cannot pass a simple criminal and mental background check, so we are screening out felons and fugitives. People who are violently unstable, undocumented aliens--these are the people that we are trying to catch. What do we hear from the other side? We hear, ``Well this punishes law-abiding people. You should go after the criminals.'' That is precisely what we are trying to do. We are trying to keep them from getting guns in the first place. We are trying to close the loopholes here today. Now, we are hearing that there is a lot of Second amendment verbiage floating around the room and yet, I have yet to hear a single argument that this legislation in H.R. 8 is unconstitutional. Not one. Now the Distinguished Ranking Member of the Committee was offended by the gentleman from New York's line of questioning about Professor Malcolm's background and the character of her professorship at George Mason. Fine, if you are not interested in trying to determine the sources of income for her chairmanship, let us leave that to the side. Let us go to the content of Professor Malcolm's testimony. Professor Malcolm, I am fellow professor of constitutional law. So I was all excited for your testimony, because before I was a member of Congress, I loved nothing more than to be able to do a legal analysis and bring it to Congress and say, ``Here is my understanding of what the law is,'' but I searched in vain, your entire testimony for any legal analysis of the Second amendment constitutionality of H.R. 8, and I am wondering, have you written a separate law review article or separate legal analysis, because I understand this is more of a policy statement? Dr. Malcolm. I have not written an analysis of this particular bill, but I would like to say that I deeply resent the assertion that I am holy on subsidiary. Mr. Raskin. I did not say anything about that. Dr. Malcolm. I know you did not. Mr. Raskin. I am sorry. I am going to reclaim my time because we have very little time here. Let me go to this question. Do you have an opinion as the Second amendment Chair holder at the George Mason Antonin Scalia School of Law, do you have a legal opinion that you have formed, even without an analysis that is written, as to the constitutionality of H.R. 8? Dr. Malcolm. I have a legal opinion that the constitutional right that is associated with the instant background check as it now stands is constitutional. It just does not work very well. Mr. Raskin. Okay so-- Dr. Malcolm. It does not work. Mr. Raskin. Okay well, we'll go to the ATF for their thoughts on that. You are saying as constitutional matter, the legislation before us is perfectly constitutional today? Dr. Sakran, do you agree with that? That H.R. 8 is perfectly constitutional? Dr. Sakran. Well, I am not a lawyer, and I am here in my capacity as a trauma surgeon. But, we currently have licensing that is actually evaluating people for background checks. So, this is just talking about ensuring we close those loopholes and expand that to the rest of the public, so. Mr. Raskin. Okay and it does not deny anybody the right to access a gun who has a Second amendment right to get one? It is only the people that Justice Scalia enumerated in how their decision as being not eligible because they might be mentally defective or felons or fugitives and so on, right? Dr. Sakran. Correct. Mr. Raskin. That is your understanding of it, okay. I yield back, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much. Chair Nadler. I thank the gentleman. I now recognize the gentlelady from Washington, Ms. Jayapal who is not here. Oh great. The gentleman from California, Mr. Correa. Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chair, first, I want to thank you for holding this most important hearing and of course, I want to also thank all of the young people in the audience today. This is your day. I am glad you are here in force to show that you care about this issue. A lot of you here have also been painfully touched, personally touched by a loss due to gun violence and thank you also for being here. I thank the panelists also for your expert testimony today. Ms. Lindquist, I want to personally thank you as well for bravery for being here to tell us about that horrible experience of yours. Half dozen years ago, my wife was attacked, mugged. Like in your situation, somebody came up behind her and grabbed her and threw her down and beat her up, and I can tell you for many, many months, I was there helping her nurse back her wounds. Not only the physical but the emotional that she still carries. We do not wish that on anybody. Very, very tough issue here. Professor Malcolm, you are absolutely right. This is going to make it more expensive for somebody to purchase a weapon. The bureaucratic issues involved are going to slow down the process. As I think about this bill, I think back to my district where I have had to attend many funerals, way too many funerals of young people. Very young teenagers being the victims of gang violence. As I think about your testimony here, is this bill going to stop somebody from buying a gun illegally? Dr. Malcolm. I cannot see how it will. Mr. Correa. I do not think it does. I do not think it does. Yet, as I think about society today, what goes on in our streets, I am going to come back to something that Mr.--that Chief Acevedo said, which is, a question in my mind is, will this legislation save a life? Will it save one life? Because when I have constituents that have been touched, that have been hurt by gun violence, my question is, Chief Acevedo, is this bill going to save one life or many lives? Or none at all? Chief Acevedo. No, thank you for the question. This bill will definitely save lives. There is no doubt about it. What this bill does is not keep guns out of the hands of law-abiding Americans of sound mind, which I do not know if-- Mr. Correa. What was that? What did you just-- Chief Acevedo. It will not keep firearms out of the hands of law-abiding Americans of sound mind. What it will do is make it more difficult for those that use these loopholes at gun shows, on the internet, straw purchasers, that are driven by greed that then go out and purchase these firearms and then sell them to those crooks. That is going to make it more difficult for the bad guys. If we are going to support the good guys with guns, if we are going to talk about other good guys with guns, we also need to talk about what do we do to keep guns out of the bad guys with guns? This is exactly what this bill will do. That is why the Major City Chiefs has been very vocal. The mayors have been very vocal. Our prosecutor has been very vocal, and I would like to tell you to the folks that are in our emergency rooms, that thanks to the medicine, the quality of the medicine we have today, the discourage of gun violence and the deaths from it would be quite more horrifying than we experience. I want to say to the trauma docs, you are in your lane. Stay in the lane, which is saving lives, not selling guns. Mr. Correa. Thank you very much. Same question to Major Tapp-Harper. Both of you have been on the beat. You are where the rubber meets the road. You have seen that violence. Will this bill, will this legislation, H.R. 8, save lives? Major Tapp-Harper. Thank you for your question, sir, and our primary responsibility as preservation of life, and I stand arm in arm with the Chief. Yes, I believe that we will save lives. Mr. Correa. So this legislation is really a major step forward in keeping guns away from those that are really not qualified to own a gun. Mr. Chair, I yield. Chair Nadler. Thank you, gentleman. Mr. Richmond is recognized. Mr. Richmond. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Dr. Malcolm, I believe two people earlier said that none of these bills would do anything to save a life. If we look at the Charleston loophole, would that not have prevented the perpetrator from purchasing that gun? Dr. Malcolm. Excuse me, what-- Mr. Richmond. The Charleston loophole. The loophole that says if your background does not come back in 72 hours, then you automatically can purchase the firearm. In his case, his background check came back after four days and what came back would have prevented him from being able to buy the gun, which in my mind, therefore would have prevented the Emanuel Nine Massacre in Mother Emanuel Church in the loss of nine lives. So, my question is, closing that loophole would have saved nine lives? Dr. Malcolm. In that one case, it probably would, but there are very few people like that man who actually go through the whole process knowing that they are planning to misuse a firearm. Mr. Richmond. Well maybe and may not be, because I think he had a bad address. So, logic would tell me that if you go in and you give a little bit of bad information like an incorrect address that may delay the background check from coming back, the goal is for the background check to come back after 72 hours, and you can purchase your gun. Also, people like to point out the Assault Weapons Ban and what effect that had. Let me tell you what effect it had because I was young in those days. I lived in the hot streets during the 90s. That Assault Weapons Ban made the price of an Uzi go up from $400 in the store to $1,500. Therefore, that mad person may have had $400 in his pocket but not $1,500. It delayed the time in which he could get his hands on a gun legally or illegally, which allowed for a cooling period to happen. I hear many people say that this may put a burden on lawful gun owners, which I am one. When I went to purchase my gun, I did not need it immediately. If I had to wait two days, that was okay. The person who needs a gun right then and there is probably the person we do not want with a gun, right then and there. Let me just remind this Committee of what I believe was a missed opportunity back in 1990. The same time when the streets were hot because of crack cocaine. This body, this committee, this Congress decided that it would treat the crack cocaine epidemic in a different way. That it would find the cure to it in mass incarceration. What we did not do is treat it as the substance abuse problem that it was. Had we declared it a health epidemic back in 1990, guess what would have happened? We would have substance abuse clinics and infrastructure across this country. The opioid victims that we see today would have a place to go, because we would have responded correctly back in 1990. Now the question is, why am I saying that? Because we have an opioid epidemic, and the President just declared it a public health crisis. Last year, opioids, we lost 14,000 individuals. Synthetic opioids, 28,000. Heroin, 15,000. It is a health epidemic. Last year, we lost 39,773 people to gun violence which is a health epidemic, and the question becomes, let us assume I am wrong, Dr. Malcolm. Let us assume it is not. What harm is there in trying to figure out the link between guns and the violence and letting CDC and NIH, smart people who are doctors, who are smarter than me, what is wrong with letting them study it to come back to us with recommendations, because that is what we are doing with the opioid epidemic. I do not want us to come here in 20 years like I am doing now, and somebody is saying, they had a chance to remove the Dickey Amendment, allow NIH, CDC and experts to study it, but they did not do it during that time, because the pressure was too hot. Now 20 years later, we have done a road and we are losing so many kids. So please tell me what is the harm in studying it? Dr. Malcolm. Guns are not a disease. They should be studied by people who are law enforcement who know more about crime on the streets, all other kinds of possibilities. Also, there is a right, a constitutional right for ordinary people to protect themselves with firearms. There is no right to have an opioid, and that is a good idea that there is not, because you are right. It is a terrible epidemic. Doctors are not the best ones to be studying the best solutions for gun control. What I would like to see, and this committee--or at least the Congress has taken it up in the past--is something more done to help people who are dangerously mentally ill. I think that would be a tremendous help, because most of the people who have committed these mass murders are people who really need some kind of help, and we have dismantled our health establishment and not really put anything very good in its place. While it is not a very sexy subject, I think it would be a tremendous help to try to help. Mr. Richmond. Mr. Chair, can I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record, it is an annotation from Dr. Sakran's testimony where it says, ``Firearm injury and death in America is not only a disease,'' and it references what I would like to enter into the record is, by Lerner, Hargarden, ``Gun Violence, A Biopsychosocial Disease.'' Chair Nadler. Without objection, the material will be entered into the record. Ms. Jayapal is recognized. [The information follows:] MR. RICHMOND FOR THE RECORD ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to start by saying thank you to all of you. I know this has been a long day, but I especially want to thank those of you in the audience who are survivors of gun violence, who are family Members. I want to thank you, Aalayah for your excellent testimony. The reality is you all are putting this issue on the map, and I am so deeply grateful for that. I just have to-- before I get into my question--say to Professor Malcom with all due respect, seatbelts were not considered a public health crisis initially. Cigarettes were not either, but we took on smoking. We took on seatbelts, as Dr. Sakran said, and that is what we need to do with gun violence. Every day we know 109 people are killed by gun violence. Hundreds more are injured, and I wanted to call attention to the fact that every 16 hours a woman is killed by an abuser with a firearm. In the United States today, 4.5 million women have been threatened by an abuser with a firearm. I am proud to be from Washington State where we have consistently passed some of the most sweeping gun reform pieces of legislation and initiatives, including comprehensive background checks in 2014. In 2016, allowing courts to issue extreme risk protection orders as many of you have spoken about and then most recently, in 2018, raising the legal age to purchase a semi-automatic rifle to 21 and requiring safe storage. In 2014, we passed a law allowing courts to ask domestic violence perpetrators to surrender their firearms when judges determine that they are a credible threat. Seattle and King County established a regional domestic violence firearms enforcement unit that in 2018 collected over 466 firearms potentially saving the lives of countless survivors of domestic violence and others. I read, Professor Malcolm, that you have said some things that imply or perhaps outright say, that repossession of firearms could lead to the Government repossessing other things such as fire extinguishers. That so- called slippery slope argument is really a tremendous disservice. So, I just wanted to give you a chance to tell me if you believe that repossessing firearms from people under court order, to surrender their firearms, is going to result in the police repossessing fire extinguishers? Dr. Malcolm. I never wrote that. Ms. Jayapal. So, you do not believe in that slippery-slope argument? Dr. Malcolm. No. Ms. Jayapal. So, you have also asserted that women should carry guns for their own protection because, and I believe this is your quote, ``Government can't protect everybody. People have to be able to protect themselves.'' Is that correct? Again, a yes or no, answer. Dr. Malcolm. Yes. Ms. Jayapal. Yes, okay. So let me turn to you, Major Tapp- Harper as the Commander of the Domestic Violence Unit for the Baltimore City Sherriff's Office. Do you agree with Professor Malcolm's position, that victims of domestic violence will be safer if they have guns? Major Tapp-Harper. I would like to point to what the national statistics say on this, and specifically what Dr. Jacquelyn Campbell says, and what she says, ``And what about the notion that if women were armed, they'd be safer? In a survey of women in a shelter, fewer than 1 in 20 abused women who had access to a gun reported having ever used it in self- defense against their abuser.'' In another national study, owning a handgun neither increased nor decreased abused women's risk of being killed by a partner. A third study showed that among California purchasers of handguns, women who purchased handguns had a 50 percent increase in risk of homicide, all of which could be attributed to homicide by an intimate partner. While this study cannot-- Ms. Jayapal. Let me just stop you right there. I am sorry. I am running out of time, but that was just what I was looking for. So let me just ask a question of Dr. Sakron or Sakran? Dr. Sakran. Sakran. Ms. Jayapal. Sakran. Okay. Great. Last year when we became the first State in the country to pass a bill allowing people at high risk of suicide to voluntarily register themselves to temporarily suspend their ability to purchase a firearm, I want to go to that. In your experience as director of emergency general surgery at Johns Hopkins, do you think there is more that we should be doing to prevent suicide by firearm? Dr. Sakran. Yeah, thank you for that question. So, this is such an important piece because I think it has been glossed over during the discussion this afternoon. Actually, most firearm deaths are from suicide, and people keep dismissing that. Suicide is actually a violent death that we or people commit to themselves. When you look at the healthcare community, we actually often don't see a lot of these victims because they are going straight to the morgue. Why is that? Because there is such a high case fatality rate that exists when you try to commit suicide using a firearm versus if you are taking, pills and trying to overdose. It is completely disparate. So absolutely we should be doing more. Our families, community needs to be involved in that process, which is why, different pieces of legislation like you have done in Washington is useful. Ms. Jayapal. Thank you so much. Mr. Chair, I yield back, and I am looking forward to much more work on this topic. Chair Nadler. Thank you. Ms. Scanlon? Ms. Scanlon. It has been 8 years and hundreds of thousands of lives lost to gun violence since the last time Congress held a hearing on this issue. While Congress has shirked its responsibility to address the epidemic of gun violence, the grassroots demand for action has taken root and been so well represented here today. We are at a critical moment where we can save the lives of thousands of Americans, and if we can I think we must. This isn't a Second amendment issue. This is a public health crisis. As the gentleman from Maryland and Florida pointed out, the commonsense measures that Congress is considering all pass constitutional muster even under the restrictive reading of the Constitution espoused by the late Justice Scalia. I grew up in a family where responsible gun ownership was common, a family of veterans and hunters who understood the value of safe gun policies. Those aren't the individuals we are talking about here today. We are talking about the background checks. We need to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals and gun traffickers, keeping weapons of war off the street, and keeping illegal guns out of our community. As several people have suggested, how we can help keep guns out of the hands of those who represent a danger to themselves or others. We need a multifaceted approach to address a multipronged public health program, one that in the terms of the breadth and depth of its impact on Americans could legitimately be declared a national emergency. It is a problem that demands a research- based and data-driven response, as suggested by the law enforcement and medical professionals who have testified here today. I want to take a moment to address two of my constituents attending today's hearing who have turned their personal tragedies into advocacy. Beverly Wright lost her son to random gun violence when he was just 23 years old. She has since started support groups for families in my district who have been impacted by gun violence. I was struck last night and again this morning when Beverly and other families of gun violence victims greeted each other with hugs as though they were close associates, but then I realized that is exactly what they are. They are Members of an ever-growing club that no one wants to be a member of. I want to thank them for their tireless advocacy to make sure that their club does not keep growing. My other guest is Malcolm Yates, who was just 7 years old when he survived a shooting at a Philadelphia candy store that claimed the life of his 5-year-old brother. He has since started a foundation and a community center in his brother's name and has become a community activist. I was proud to have Malcolm and Beverly as my guests at the State of the Union last night, and I am even prouder that they are here today at this historic hearing. They know what some still refuse to acknowledge, that thoughts and prayers after shootings are not enough, that gun violence has become a constant in too many of our communities, invading our streets, our offices, our places of worship, and our schools. It is time for our collective outrage to drive commonsense gun legislation and for that legislation to become law. Before I get to my questions, I want to echo my colleagues in thanking Chair for having this important hearing and thanking our witnesses for being here and sharing their stories and expertise. To that end, Major Tapp-Harper, my district is in southeastern Pennsylvania, and as such, we are impacted by what some call the iron pipeline: Seeing guns from southern States with weak gun safety laws travel to our city streets in Pennsylvania. Can you speak to how better tracking of lost or stolen guns can help prevent this phenomenon and decrease gun violence? Major Tapp-Harper. I think universal laws that I talked about earlier and strengthening those Federal laws is the way. I think that is the way to keep everybody safe as I mentioned earlier. Ms. Scanlon. Okay. Chief Acevedo, how can the Federal government, including the ATF, be more involved and active in stemming the problem of gun trafficking? How can we help local law enforcement? Chair Nadler. Can you move that other mike over there perhaps? No, or that one. Chief Acevedo. Sorry about that. I will fix it here in a second. Oh, you fixed it? Thank you. You get an assist. [Laughter.] Chief Acevedo. First, we need to get ATF up and running. It is an open secret amongst law enforcement circles that Congress has handcuffed the ATF. So, if Congress is interested in fighting gun violence, we need to properly fund the ATF, increase the number of agents on the ground in ATF, and actually go after all the illegal guns. They are a phenomenal partner. I think they are underappreciated, but sadly I don't think the American people know what a great asset that organization is and how much it is being underutilized as a result of the lack of funding and support from Congress. Ms. Scanlon. Thank you. I yield back. Chair Nadler. Thank you. Ms. Garcia of Texas? Ms. Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I too, want to thank the audience. I know we started out at 10:00 a.m., and here we are--we did the math real quickly--4 or 5 hours later. So, thanks for hanging with us. To Ms. Eastwood and Ms. Lindquist, thank you so much for sharing. I know it takes a lot of courage to come before us and share your stories. Please know that that we all were genuinely touched, and we certainly stand with you in trying to make changes in both of the areas that you both talked about. Chief, I wanted to start with you. I know this is not an immigration hearing, although it began to sound like one earlier. There was a comment made about criminal aliens, which, of course, is a word, as my colleague from Houston, that I find very offensive. There was a question that there be may be implied that every unauthorized immigrant that comes to this country quickly goes to get a gun and starts committing some heinous crime. I know you track a lot of this because I have heard your statistics in Houston. Could you tell us, comparatively speaking, in terms of the crimes committed by an authorized immigrants versus non-immigrants? Chief Acevedo. Well, thank you. First, I really started to think it was an immigration hearing when Mr. Gaetz started speaking earlier. Then I thought I was being forgotten like the children that have been taken from their mothers for seeking asylum in the United States we cannot seem to find or account for. Let me just be real clear. Every study that we have seen will show that undocumented immigrants are underrepresented in terms of their commission of crimes. Most of those individuals are here to seek a better way of live like everyone of our of ancestors. Mr. Gaetz gave us of handful and attributed them to undocumented immigrants. Yet my testimony included mass shooting events in the United States occurring between June 2015 to January 2019. Ms. Garcia. You had the whole list. Chief Acevedo. Yes, and that included 41 mass shootings with 251 Americans killed, 1,095 injured. To my knowledge, I don't believe a single one of those shooters were undocumented immigrants. I think we need to keep that in mind. Having said that, undocumented immigrants should not be able to possess or actually purchase guns. By not supporting this legislation, we are not only making it easier for those undocumented immigrants that are actually criminal immigrants, who actually prey on other immigrants and others, and terrorists from getting firearms. So, if we really want to keep firearms out of the hands of undocumented immigrants, we know that whether we build a wall or not, they are going to go under the wall, through the wall, over the wall. We know that you are not going to keep them all out. So, we need to do everything we can to keep firearms in the hands of law-abiding Americans of sound mind, and that is what this legislation helps to do. Ms. Garcia. Thank you, Chief. Now to the doctor. I read in your written testimony that you suggest that there's about 221 billion, and that is ``billion'' with a ``B,'' in economic costs to the medical healthcare system in dealing with the violence and the trauma care that you must provide. I must tell you that I signed up for a Doctor for a Day Program with Ben Taub Hospital in Houston. I am sure, you know it. It is a world-known trauma center. I got to be in the surgery room when a gunshot victim came in, and I watched the whole surgery. I think they were surprised because a lot of people see a lot of blood for the first time, and they faint. I did not faint. I got through it. What is the economic impact? Is that the latest figure for when? About how much is it per victim that comes in? Dr. Sakran. Well, thank you for that question, and I am glad that you had the opportunity to experience what we are seeing every day when it comes to these gunshot wound victims. If the human impact is not enough, there is an economic impact as you allude to. Ms. Garcia. Right. Dr. Sakran. The economic impact actually is very difficult to narrow down. So, we did a study just published last year in Health Affairs that essentially found that the cost is about $2.8 billion, and this is just the cost of patients that are coming to the hospital after having been shot. When you look at the societal cost, that is even more tremendous, and there are figures over $220 billion that is out there in the literature that is stated. So it is hard to really narrow that down because there are lot of things that you have to take into factor, can they go back to work and other societal aspects. It is a significant economic impact to our healthcare system and our country. Ms. Garcia. So, not only is it a public health issue, it is an economic issue. Dr. Sakran. Absolutely. Some of those figures, they are more than some our departments and Administrations are actually spending when you look at the Department of Education and so forth. So, just think about that for a second and think about all the essentially economic funds that are going to waste, not to mention people not being able to get back and integrate into society. Ms. Garcia. Well, thank you, and thank you so much for staying in your lane. Chair Nadler. Thank you. The time of the gentlelady has expired. Ms. Garcia. Thank you. Chair Nadler. Mr. Negues is recognized for 5 minutes. Mr. Negues. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for hosting this important hearing, and thank you to the witnesses, the survivors, the many folks who are gathered here today, and particularly the young folks, the activists with Moms Demand Action, so many people that have been highlighting this issue. We appreciate your activism and your service. I also want to make sure I recognize a constituent of mine back home, the founder Moms Demand Action, Shannon Watts, who happens to live in Boulder, Colorado where I represent and hail from, and who has led on this issue for so many years. I am proud to represent her and so many others in Colorado that have been touched by this issue. As I mentioned, have the great honor of representing the State of Colorado, and we have had multiple countless tragedies of gun violence in our State. Some folks earlier mentioned Columbine High School in 1999, which killed 15, to the shooting in a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado in 2012 in which 12 people perished, along with countless others every day, incidents of gun violence. At the time of the shooting at Columbine, I was 14 years old. I lived 10 minutes away and 10 miles away from that high school. It is not my story that I want to share today. There are many survivors who have waited quite some time to have their experiences heard and acknowledged and true recognition given to this issue. So, I want to share one of their stories before I jump into my questions. A young man, Daniel Mauser, was killed in the Columbine shooting. He was roughly my age, 15 years old, at the time. This April 20th, in just 2 months, will mark the 20th anniversary of the tragedy at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. I spoke to Daniel's father yesterday, Tom Mauser, and he recounted the story to me, that just 2 weeks before the tragedy, 15-year-old Daniel asked his father a question at the dinner table. Reflecting on a conversation in his debate class, he said, ``Dad, did you know there are loopholes in the Brady Bill?'' Two weeks later, Daniel was killed at Columbine High School with a gun purchased through one of those loopholes. Daniel's father, Tom, remains haunted by that question today and by the hole in our gun laws that allowed his son to be killed. He has committed his life to championing this issue ever since his son's death. When Tom first began sharing his story, he wore his son's shoes to speak with people, telling people that he had taken his son's place in the great debate about gun violence. Months after the Columbine tragedy, Colorado voters overwhelmingly voted to close the background check loophole, and many other States have since followed suit. The American people understand that we need to keep firearms out of the wrong hands, and yet it is 20 years later and we at the Federal level have shamefully done nothing about this issue. That is why I am so excited to support H.R. 8, and so grateful to the sponsors, to Representative Thompson and the folks on the Gun Violence Prevention Task Force, for leading on this issue. With that, I want to ask a question around extreme risk protection orders and red flag orders. I know it has been discussed at some length by the committee. As some folks may know, my home State of Colorado will soon take up similar legislation, and I support that legislation. I am hoping we can work on that issue in this committee. My question is for Major Tapp-Harper. You know, as a State that has enacted similar legislation, if you could just speak to some of the impacts that the legislation has had in your State. Major Tapp-Harper. Right. So, this past year, Maryland just got the extreme risk protective order, and the importance of getting that, it now gives law enforcement officers and other individuals the option of getting protective orders where in the past it was limited to certain family Members and individuals who were married to a person. Otherwise, it would have to be a piece order. So that was very important. The other thing is if law enforcement officers see certain behaviors distributed, they can then go and get a protective order for that individual, and they can get the weapons from the home. So that is really important for us. Mr. Negues. Thank you, Major Tapp-Harper. With that, Mr. Chair, I would like to yield the rest of my time, with your approval to my colleague, Ms. McBath, as I believe her story is certainly one that we need to hear and want to make sure she has ample time to do so. Mr. Raskin. [Presiding.] The gentlelady is recognized. Mrs. McBath. Thank you very much to my colleague. During testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee just a couple of weeks ago, attorney general nominee, William Barr, said these words. He said, ``We need to push along extreme risk protection orders,'' ERPOs, ``so that we have these red flag laws to supplement the use of background checks to find out if someone has a mental disturbance. This is the single most important thing that we can do in the gun control area to stop these mass shootings from happening in the first place.'' I would also to say that Senator Graham and Senator Blumenthal introduced a bipartisan Federal extreme risk law in the Senate last year that I also plan to develop for introduction in the House with my colleagues hopefully very soon. Mr. Raskin. Ms. McBath, the gentleman's time has expired, but I will go ahead and recognize you for your time. The gentlelady is recognized for 5 minutes. Mrs. McBath. Thank you very much. Major Tapp-Harper, do you agree with the attorney general nominee that extreme risk law should be the top priority for gun violence prevention? Major Tapp-Harper. I do agree that extreme risk protective order laws are very important. There are several States that already have them, and the ones that, just as I mentioned earlier, with those Federal laws, we need to become consistent as a country, and we need to get those laws in effect across the Nation. So, yes, I do think it is very important. Mrs. McBath. Thank you. Mr. Chair? Do you want me to go ahead? Okay. All right. Thank you. The Binkleys know that Florida already has an extreme risk law in place when their daughter was murdered. These were the couple that I spent time with last night with the State of the Union Address. They were my guests. They still believe in the potential of the extreme risk orders. They still believe in the potential alongside better officer training and more research into authentic makers of the dangerousness of these laws. Dr. Sakran, how could Congress support the implementation of extreme risk laws? Dr. Sakran. Well, I think that one thing is important to recognize is passing the legislation is one piece but, also, raising education and awareness that actually is present is another. Thousand Oaks is another example where that could have potentially been enforced. California has the ERPO laws, and these laws have been used in the past to prevent suicide and other forms of gun violence. We have other States where we have seen this, like Vermont where 2 months after the Parkland massacre, when it was implemented they actually stopped an 18- year-old kid from proceeding with a mass shooting that was going to happen at a high school, and that was all documented. So, I think passing the legislation is important, but also ensuring that we are raising awareness about it and people understand it, and they know how to proceed and then Act is very critical. Mrs. McBath. Thank you. Ms. Eastmond, I am so sorry. I was out of the room earlier when you gave your testimony, and I do apologize for not having been here. Would just like to thank you so much for your bravery. I cannot tell you how important your being here and all these students and gun violence survivors, and I applaud you for being here. I just wanted to give you another chance to speak if you had anything else that you wanted to say because your voice is extremely critical, and we need to hear more from you. Ms. Eastmond. Thank you. I do believe that it is important that we continue to have hearings like this, and I strongly urge you guys to have a hearing again, but particularly to address gun violence in urban communities because that hasn't been touched upon nearly enough during this hearing today. Again, Black and brown are disproportionately impacted by gun violence, and they are the number one people impacted by gun violence, and we cannot continue to have hearings and not address those issues. So, I do urge you guys to have another one particularly for gun violence in marginalized communities. Thank you. Mrs. McBath. Thank you. Mr. Chair, I yield back my time. Mr. Raskin. The gentlelady yields back. Thank you very much. I recognize the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Stanton, for 5 minutes. Mr. Stanton. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you for holding this hearing today. It has been a great hearing with outstanding testimony. It is my honor to serve on this Committee and do sit next to Congresswoman McBath. When this Congress finally does pass H.R. 8, and I think we will, it will honor you. It will honor Congresswoman Giffords. It will honor survivors of gun violence. It will honor the family and friends of victims of gun violence. It will be the right thing to do. Before I joined this distinguished body, I spent 6 years as a big city mayor, mayor of Phoenix, Arizona. There are a lot of big challenges in that job and a few fears, but there is nothing that I feared more than if I get a call of a mass shooting in my city. We were lucky in Phoenix. Many other communities were not: Aurora, Newtown, Charleston, San Bernardino, Orlando, Las Vegas, Sutherland Springs, Parkland, Pittsburgh, and Thousand Oaks. The list goes on and on. It pains me, Mr. Chair, that between the time when the first shot rang out at Newtown to today, this body has not held a single hearing, not a single hearing on what we can do to reduce gun violence until today. The American people deserve better. My community, like every American community, is not immune from gun violence. I can tell you that my darkest and hardest days as mayor were delivered at the hand of gun violence. Police officers were murdered by those who shouldn't have had a gun. Women and children were gunned down in acts of domestic violence by someone who should not have had a gun. I have mourned with family Members who have lost loved ones to gun violence. I have worked alongside survivors and advocates whose lives have been torn apart and stitched back together again after encountering their worst fears. Our Nation stops when there is a mass shooting, but here is the cold reality: Gun violence happens every single day in America. It takes lives every single day, but has become so commonplace that it doesn't make headlines. We are here today to examine a public health crisis in our Nation. Throughout my public service, I have met with people from all walks of life, people from both sides of the aisle, and they all agree that we must do something to stop this violence, to stop innocent people from dying. Democrats and Republicans alike respect gun rights and are in favor of commonsense gun laws. These are not competing values. Ninty percent of Americans support background checks for every gun sale. Ninty-seven percent. That means gun owners, Republicans, they all support background checks, and that support is overwhelming. Background checks on all gun sales are the backbone of any comprehensive gun violence prevention plan, and for me, this is where we come together to make a difference. As difficult as it has been to hear the powerful testimony from our witnesses here today, we have a responsibility to listen and to not look away. There is a thread that we use these experiences together. Too many guns are being used against innocent people, and too many ill-gotten guns are being used against innocent people, and we must put an end to it. That is why this hearing is important and the action that this Committee is going to take in the next few days and weeks is very important. I do have time for maybe one or two questions. Ms. Thomas, I am going to ask you about the NICS Act and the attempt to sort of fix the NICS Act. There are some loopholes remaining in that that H.R. 8 would fill in. I wanted to inform this Committee and maybe the public as to how H.R. 8 will help fix some of those loopholes. Ms. Thomas. Well, part of the problem that we are dealing with background checks is that while you go to a licensed gun dealer and the dealer conducts a background check, there are so many places where unlicensed dealers, and it is often called private sales, but the truth is it is not really just private sales. It is any sale by someone who is not choosing to be a licensed dealer, and those sales have really spread to the point where you don't even really know exactly where they are happening. We certainly know that they are happening through online sales, like Arms List, which was referenced earlier. We certainly know they are happening at gun shows. Anyone who has been to a gun show knows that there are tables that say ``no background check required'' where unlicensed dealers sell their guns, and you don't need to take a background check. They can be sold legally out of the trunk of a car on a corner without background checks in most States. So, what this law does is it requires that whether you are a private seller, selling online, at a gun show, or a licensed dealer, all those transfers happen through a licensed dealer and include a background check. They will help us keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people, and then enable us to look at next steps. Enforcing something like an extreme risk protective order also requires universal background checks because without that in place, it is very difficult to keep individuals from acquiring new guns. So, it is basically the floor that allows us to then look at all the other ways that we need to regulate guns in order to keep our communities safer. Mr. Stanton. Thank you so much. Chair Nadler. [Presiding.] Thank you. The time of the gentleman has expired. Ms. Dean of Pennsylvania. Ms. Dean. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to join my colleagues in saying that today is a day of action, and it is a day of extraordinary hope. I want to thank all of you for being here. For those who don't know, there is an overflow room of other Members who came--activists, family Members, and victims who came. They wanted to be a part of this, so I thank you, those in the anteroom, for being here and for remaining all these hours. I think about it, and I think about the time of our work in this day. From the time we got up this morning until the time we will go to bed tonight, another 300 people in this country will be shot, wounded, or killed. One hundred people today will die of gun violence as we do our work or as we fail to do our work. Two hundred more will be wounded, literally caught in the crossfire. That is not just today. That is yesterday. That is tomorrow. Yet, last night, we listened to a State of the Union address by the leader of the free world, the leader of this great democracy, that mentioned nothing about gun violence, about the scourge of gun violence that wounds or kills a total of 120,000 people a year. It is stunning. For somebody to have testified that there has just been a small uptick in violence and in gun deaths when 2 years ago there were 33,000 people who died of gun violence. Last year it was 40,000 people died, more than half to suicide. I don't call that a small uptick. If it is one more, it is not a small uptick if it is my family member. I want to thank, in particular, my guest who came with me last night, Ms. Jami Amo. Jami is a survivor of Columbine. She was a freshman that fateful day, and she described to me the fear, the sounds, the haunting hiding and trying to figure out where was a safe haven. She is now a young mother of three and an advocate, and I am so proud of you, Jami. Here is why I am proud of you: Because as Abraham Lincoln said, ``Public sentiment is everything. With public sentiment, nothing can fail. Without it nothing can succeed.'' Public sentiment is on our side, Mr. Chair, and I thank you for holding this hearing. I thank the champion, Chair Thompson, and I want to thank Ms. Eastman for saying this is probably-- no, you did say--not probably. You said this is the most important issue facing our generation. May this body hear you, pass this legislation, get it to the Senate, send it to the President, and begin to save lives. Ms. Latiker, we must show that we care. We must Act as though we care. I am mystified that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, instead of approaching this hearing today by saying, you are right, we have a problem, what can we do about it, instead their step immediately out of the box was, this isn't a good move. You are not going to save any lives this way. Let me tell you how background checks save lives, and as I end my statement, I want to pivot to Ms. Thomas, to the chief, and to the major to talk about the efficacy of background checks. Let me tell you about the numbers in my State, Pennsylvania. As we know, nearly 40,000 people were killed by gun violence in 2017. Over 1,600 took place in my State of Pennsylvania. 90-one of those lives were lost in my single district. We in Pennsylvania have not only the NICS system, but we have a robust overlay, the Pennsylvania Instant Check System. I will ask at the end of my time, Mr. Chair, for unanimous consent to put in a report of the 2017 PICS annual showing the efficacy of the PICS and NICS systems. Here are some of the numbers. Between its inception in 1998, and this is run by the Pennsylvania State Police, heroically, frankly, with such duty and care. Since its inception until 2017, PICS referred more than 26,000 investigations, were responsible for more than 7,000 arrests, almost 4,000 convictions as a result of prohibited purchasers attempting to purchase and failing background checks. Of those, PICS has been responsible for the apprehension of more than 2,200 individuals with active arrest warrants. So, for those who would have you believe, oh, that the bad guys are never going to try to go buy a gun, nonsense. Utter nonsense. The good news about the PICS system also is it does not suffer the Charleston loophole. Instead of a default when we can't get an answer of yes or no, a default to, okay, yeah, we will sell you the gun, as in Charleston, there is no default. The default is to no, and the purchaser must appeal and find clarity in that background check. Having said those things and just being so proud that this Committee is going to do something about this, that this Congress is going to do something about this, and it is because of all of you. I wanted to ask you, please, can you comment also on the efficacy of robust and complete background check systems? Chair Nadler. The time of the gentlelady has expired. The witness may answer the question. Ms. Thomas. I would simply say that in States where we have robust regulation States, like Pennsylvania, that have moved to fill some of the loopholes in Federal law, States like California, Connecticut, New York, we are seeing a far greater reduction in gun violence and gun injuries. When you look at States with strong laws, you see much lower gun death rates. States with weak laws have much higher gun death rates. So, we know that when States, like Pennsylvania and others, take action to fill those loopholes, gun violence and gun death in that State is reduced. It is not enough. We need a Federal system that does not create a patchwork of laws. Something like H.R. 8 actually fills the gap that led to trafficking--the iron pipeline was mentioned before--up to States with stronger gun laws. So, we need that Federal law. In the meantime, without it, States are taking action and they are seeing positive results from it. Ms. Dean. Thank you. Mr. Chair? Chair Nadler. Yes? Ms. Dean. I seek unanimous consent to enter into the record the Pennsylvania Instant Check System report. Chair Nadler. Without objection, the report will be entered into the record. Ms. Dean. Thank you. [The information follows:] MS. DEAN FOR THE RECORD ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chair Nadler. The time of the gentlelady has expired. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell of Florida. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you especially for holding such a critical hearing. I think it has been long overdue, the first hearing discussing the effects of gun violence in over a decade. Thank you to all the witnesses for being here with us this afternoon. As some of you may already know, the issue of gun violence is deeply personal to me, and unfortunately it is very personal for too many Americans now. Gun violence is the leading cause of death in American children, and I want all of us to think about that just for one moment. Far more children die in this country because of a bullet than because of cancer. My father was a victim of gun violence. When I was 24 years old, I received a phone call--I was getting my master's degree--to be told that my father had been shot and killed by a criminal with a gun. The pain that I feel when we discuss this issue here today, when I hear the news of the mass shootings in Parkland, Orlando, Vegas, is there. My father never had the chance to walk me down the aisle. He never met my children. I want all of you to know that when I took the oath of office, I made a promise that I would not stop until we finally passed commonsense gun reform because I owe it to my father, sisters, and to so many parents that have lost their children in my community. I owe it to all of you here today. Sometimes people say that this tragedy happened in Ecuador and that this is America, so why should that matter in the context of gun violence here in the United States, and I can tell you why. The trauma inflicted upon families is always the same, no matter where you are in the world. We are united not by the place where we were born, but by our own personal experiences. My family was devastated in Ecuador, and so, too, are many family Members in my community. I want to remind all of you and tell you a little bit about someone that lost his life in my community. Carnell Williams- Thomas was only 2 years old when he was playing outside of his apartment complex building. He was shot and killed by a stray bullet. I met his parents, who every day mourn the loss of their toddler, the mother knowing that every year that passes, she will never be able to see him going through elementary school, graduating from middle school, high school. There are so many steps that we can take to address the source of gun violence across this country. Universal background checks will not prevent all deaths, but they are a very important step. I know that somehow it is changing because when I see all of you here today, I know that finally we are going to be able to pass commonsense gun reforms. I wanted to also just briefly answer just some of the comments that I have heard today. They are extremely offensive and insulting. I know that some people believe that the criminals that are killing and committing all these murders are immigrants. I am an immigrant, and the research is clear that immigrants are significantly less likely to commit crimes than U.S.-born citizens, whether documented or undocumented. I also want to remind that we need to be respectful of those who have lost their lives to gun violence. We have two people in Parkland who are immigrants, Martin Duque Anguiano and Joaquin Oliver. With that, I would like to ask Ms. Thomas if you could just elaborate on--I know that you have done research on this topic--on the increase of mass shootings with assault weapons after the ban was lifted. If you can just talk to me a little bit about that research. Ms. Thomas. I will just very briefly say that if you look at high-fatality mass shootings, which are mass shooting of 6 people or more, in the years after the expiration of the assault weapon ban in 2004, high-fatality mass shooting injuries went up by more than 200 percent. If you look at high- fatality mass shootings during the time of the ban, those were down by almost 40 percent. So, while it is difficult to measure the impact on a one- by-one basis, if you look at those mass shootings that really are the most impactful, there is a significant difference during the ban and since the ban took effect. Those numbers have continued to rise year after year after year. So, we are seeing more and more of these types of shootings as these types of very lethal weapons proliferate more. Chair Nadler. The time of the gentlelady has expired. Ms. Mucarsel-Powell. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Chair Nadler. Does the gentleman have a unanimous consent request? Mr. Biggs. Yes, Mr. Chair. I ask that this UC--Davis health study entitled, ``The Study Does Not Find Population-Level Changes in Firearm Homicide or Suicide Rates in California 10 Years After Comprehensive Background Check and Violent Misdemeanor Policies Enacted,'' be admitted into record. Chair Nadler. Without objection, the document will be admitted into the record. [The information follows:] MR. BIGGS FOR THE RECORD ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Chair Nadler. Mr. Lieu of California is recognized for 5 minutes. Mr. Lieu. Thank you, Mr. Chair. According to the Center for Disease Control's latest figures, 109 people die from gun violence every day. That comes out to 9 people every 2 hours. So, since this hearing has started, over 23 people in America have been shot and killed by guns. No community is immune from gun violence. In my hometown of Torrance 1 month ago, 3 people were killed at a bowling alley. In 2017 in Las Vegas, that mass shooting, a number of my constituents were killed. It does not have to be this way, and all of us are entitled to our opinions. I thank many of you here in this room for your advocacy and for the witnesses for being here. When we legislate, we should do it on facts. So, I am just going to talk about some studies, and then put them into the record. First Study. In 2018, researchers at Johns Hopkins University and UC--Davis published a study called ``Association Between Firearm Laws and Homicide in Urban Counties,'' where they found that right to carry and stand your ground laws are associated with increases in firearm homicide, while permit-to- purchase laws and those prohibiting individuals convicted of violent misdemeanors have been associated with decreases in firearm homicide. Second Study. In 2014, researchers at Johns Hopkins University published ``Effects of the Repeal of Missouri's Purchaser Licensing Law on Homicides.'' They found that a repeal of Missouri's permit-to-purchase law was associated with a 25 percent increase in firearm homicides. Third Study. In 2018, researchers at New York Presbyterian Weill Cornell Medical Center published a study where they found that strong State firearm policies were associated with lower homicide rates, and strong interstate policies were also associated with lower homicide rates. They also found that strong firearm policies were associated with lower suicide rates as well. Forth Study. Then in 2017, researchers at Duke University did a study where they analyzed Connecticut's extreme risk law and found that for every 10 or 20 risk warrants issued, one suicide was prevented. I would like to enter these into the record with unanimous consent. Chair Nadler. Without objection, the documents will be entered into the record. [The information follows:] MR. LIEU FOR THE RECORD ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Mr. Lieu. I do note that some of these studies do mention suicide. If you look at the overwhelming number of gun deaths, they occur because of suicide. Three in 5 gun deaths are a result of suicide. My first question is to Dr. Sakran. I want to see if you had any ideas or solutions how we can better address the number of people killed by suicide by gun. Dr. Sakran. Yeah, so thank you for that question. When you look at suicides, and it is important when we are looking at deaths in general to really break up these different populations because actually suicide deaths are primarily an older White male. In this population specifically, there is an association from a mental health perspective. So, some of the stuff that we are hearing about access to mental health is absolutely correct and it is true. The way we must approach this and think about this is from a systems perspective, and we can't just have one necessary solution. So, another aspect is the extreme risk protection order policies that we have been talking about, enabling families and law enforcement to actually be proactive in preventing these from happening. Mr. Lieu. Thank you. Ms. Thomas, do you think extreme risk laws would help prevent suicides? Ms. Thomas. Absolutely. Extreme risk protective orders are intended to be used by law enforcement and family Members. Very often family Members have warning signs and indicators that a loved one is showing signs of distress or crisis, and they know often when their loved ones have guns. So being able to utilize that process to protect their loved ones from causing harm to themselves is an incredibly valuable tool for preventing suicides along with things like safe storage laws. Mr. Lieu. Thank you. Let me conclude by noting that earlier in testimony, one of the Republican witnesses, Professor Malcolm, had stated that had shooter Cruz in Parkland been put on a background list, he would not have passed the background check and would not have gotten a gun. So, please, you acknowledge that the background system could have prevented him from getting a gun. I know that it wasn't quite accurate because Cruz could have walked into a gun show and gotten a gun. That is what H.R. 8 will do. It will prevent people from doing that, so I look forward to your support of H.R. 8. With that, I yield back. Chair Nadler. I thank the gentleman. Ms. Demmings of Florida is recognized for 5 minutes. Ms. Demmings. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. To all of our witnesses, thank you so much for being here with us. I know it has been a long, long day. To the advocates and survivors and supporters in the audience, too, we appreciate you being here to hold us accountable. This is a tough subject for, well, most people in the room. I spent 27 years as a law enforcement officer, and I served as the chief of police in Orlando. I have got to tell you, I am sick and tired of watching sons and daughters, and husbands and wives, and mothers and fathers die through gun violence by someone with a gun who should have never had a gun in their possession in the first place. My colleagues on the other side of the aisle can't tell me a doggone thing about rights because, you know what? I can't help but think about the rights of the victims who died at the hands of someone with a gun who should have never had a gun in the first place. My goodness, in a country that we say is the greatest country in the world, we are 25 times more likely to be killed through gun violence. In a country that we say is the greatest country in the world, my God, you ought to be able to go to a school, church, synagogue, concert, movie theater, and nightclub, not just in Orlando, but in any city in this country, and not have to worry about somebody walking in with a gun. Ronald Reagan, Republican President, said, ``Legislation would be worth passing if it meant even small reductions in gun violence.'' Which life, tell me which life, if it saves one life. Which life is not worth saving? Which life? So, I am sick and tired of sitting here. I thank God that we are at least having a hearing because we haven't had one in 8 years, and there has been a lot of talk about national emergencies, crises, and national health emergencies. Well, doggone it, when mass numbers of people die in this country, I would consider that, doggonit, a national emergency. It is time. In Congress, we sit here with the ability and the power to do something, and history will not be kind to us if we continue to allow the gun lobby to buy us and sell us. Now is the time for change. If you don't have the guts or the courage to do something about this issue and send a message to the American people, who desperately turn to us, then it is time for you to leave. [Disturbance in the hearing room.] Ms. Demmings. It is really time for you to leave. I want to talk to my law enforcement colleagues--I still consider you colleagues--and to the emergency room doctor. You deal with this every day. You have not only had to break bad news to families whose loved ones weren't out doing the wrong thing. They were in the right place, a place they had the right to be, doing the right thing. Not only have you had to break that bad news, but you have also had to bury your own because they died as a result of someone who shouldn't have had a gun in the first place. I talked to an emergency room doctor after Pulse who shared to me the difference in the persons, the victims who were shot with an assault rifle versus those with a handgun. Chances of survival are almost zero when you are shot with an assault rifle. So, please, in the little time we have left, Major and Chief, if you would please just talk about gun violence in your community and why this issue is so important to you, and then we will end with the doctor. Chief Acevedo. Thank you for those comments. They are just really well taken. I just wanted to say really quickly, it is a scourge. It is ongoing. It is daily. In our city, one of the problems we are having now is the Department of Justice legal team decided that fugitives can't be in the system. So, we have 500,000 people that we know are wanted for a serious crime that would make them prohibited purchasers, and let me give you the example of how that can get women killed. My people go to a house. They find a woman that has been abused. The perpetrator of the crime is not there. We go out. We get a warrant, and if we can't enter that person into the system, that individual can go out, buy a firearm, come back, and finish the job. So, there are a lot of loopholes that you are addressing. I just want to tell you all, thank you for courage and thank you for speaking out. Again, I love prayers. I welcome prayers. Like I have said before, my mayor has me in my job to fight crime, and I think the American people have elected you not to just pray, but to actually lead and pass legislation that will save lives. Ms. Demmings. Thank you. Major Tapp-Harper. Yes, ma'am, thank you. I just wanted to mention really quick, I have 13 deputies in my unit. In 2015, they recovered 65 guns; 2016, 67 guns; 2017, 51 guns; and 2018, 81 guns. So, I find that these numbers continue to increase, and I just try to keep them encouraged, 13 people serving protective orders. Ms. Demmings. Thank you. Chair Nadler. Thank you. This concludes today's hearing. I want to thank our distinguished witnesses for attending. I want to thank the Members of the audience for, for the most part, observing the decorum of the Committee on a very emotional issue. Without objection, all Members will have 5 legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses or additional materials for the record. Chair Nadler. With that, the hearing is adjourned. [Whereupon, at 3:38 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.] APPENDIX ======================================================================= FOR THE RECORD STATEMENT OF WHIP STEVE SCALISE My name is Steve Scalise. I am the Congressman for Louisiana's 1st District. I am the Republican Whip. I am also a target of gun violence. Many of you may be fan1iliar with the events of June 14, 2017. Around 7:00 a.m., at the last morning practice before the annual Congressional Baseball Game for Charity, an Illinois man named James Hodgkinson opened fire on myself and a group of Republican legislators and volunteers on an Alexandria, VA baseball field. Fortunately, as a member of House leadership, I was accompanied by my Capitol Police security detail who were able to return fire and engage the shooter until additional law enforcement officers arrived and ultimately took down the shooter. I was shot and nearly fatally wounded, and both of my detail agents were shot as well. I am alive today thanks to the bravery of U.S. Capitol Police and the Alexandria Police, heroes like Congressman Brad Wenstrup and the first responders who rushed to the scene, the incredible medical team at Washington MedStar Hospital Center, and most importantly the grace of God. I applaud the intentions behind this hearing and believe we are all pursuing the same goal of reducing gun violence. As someone who experienced gun violence, I do not want anyone else to go through that trauma. However, it is also important to me that we be honest with ourselves and the American people about what will--or won't--actually prevent these tragedies. The shooter who targeted me that morning was aimed with an SKS rifle and a 9 mm Smith & Wesson handgun, both of which were purchased in compliance with Illinois gun laws. The new gun control restrictions currently being considered by the Democratic majority in H.R. 8 would not have prevented my shooting. In fact, these new gun control measures being proposed in H.R. 8 would not have prevented any number of recent mass violence events. Several perpetrators of recent multi-victim shootings also purchased their guns legally. In some instances, the background check system failed, and lack of intervention from law enforcement failed to intercept potential threats. I want to stress that the man who shot me was issued a permit to purchase firearms by the State of Illinois, and had acquired them legally. At Virginia Tech, Charleston, and Sutherland Springs failures in the background check system allowed individuals to illegally obtain the firearms they used to commit their crimes. The alleged loopholes that H.R. 8 claims to fix would not have prevented these tragedies either. Instead, whether intentionally or not, the gun control proposals in H.R. 8 could turn law abiding citizens into criminals while also failing to achieve the stated purpose of reducing gun violence. A recent study by the Violence Prevention Research Program at UC-Davis and Johns Hopkins University into California's effort to implement ``comprehensive background checks'' found that, ``The simultaneous implementation of [the Comprehensive Background Check policy] and [prohibitions on firearm purchase and possession for persons convicted within the past 10 years of certain violent crimes classified as misdemeanors] was not associated with a net change in the firearm homicide rate over the ensuing 10 years in California.'' Even though California implemented more stringent background checks, this study shows that these measures did not reduce gun violence. In fact, most criminals obtain firearms through unlawful means--whether through theft, straw purchases, or lying on the required paperwork. A DOJ study of federal inmates found that only 7% who possessed a firearm while committing the crime they were serving time for purchased it legally from a firearms dealer under their own name. Based on similar gun control measures in states like California, H.R. 8 would not deter a criminal from engaging in criminal activity, and it won't decrease gun crime. Instead, it only succeeds in limiting the ways that law-abiding citizens could exercise their Second amendment rights. Every single month in America, law-abiding citizens with concealed carry permits defend themselves and others against criminals who have guns. For example, on January 8th, a man approached a 25-year old woman in Chicago, displayed a weapon, and attempted to rob her at a bus stop. The woman had a concealed carry permit. She drew her own weapon and fired a shot, killing the armed robber. The owner of a nearby pharmacy said such violence happens ``all over'' Chicago. However, in this case, the intended victim was able to defend herself with her own gun. On January 2nd a Good Samaritan in California with a concealed carry permit used his firearm to stop an attempted stabbing of a security guard and held the perpetrator until law enforcement could arrive at the scene. On January 17th, a man at an IHOP in Alabama opened fire on employees, killing one before another employee pulled his handgun and killed the shooter in self-defense. On January 29th, an armed robber held up a Family Dollar Store in Georgia. A customer was able to use a personal firearm to shoot and kill the robber before the criminal could hurt any of the many employees or customers in the store. These are just some examples from the last month alone. There are hundreds of stories like these every single year from law-abiding Americans all over the country. I am alive due to the effective and immediate response of my Capitol Police detail, and the Alexandria Police Department. Most victims of gun violence do not have law enforcement already on the scene to respond to a violent gunman. Instead of making it harder for citizens to defend themselves until law enforcement arrives, Congress should consider legislation like H.R. 38, the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, a bill that would help law-abiding citizens have the same tools to defend themselves as a criminal has of trying to inflict harm, regardless of where they travel. I firmly believe we must never forget, nor minimize, the importance of the Second amendment to our Constitution. H.R. 8, as well as other new gun control legislation currently being considered by the House Democrat majority do not accomplish the goal of reducing gun violence. If our goal is to reduce gun violence, then we should focus on penalizing criminals, not law-abiding citizens. Thank you. [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] ANSWERS OF QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORDR ======================================================================= [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Response to Ms. Jackson Lee: Yes, thank you so much for that question because if the human toll of gun violence in America is not enough there is also an economic cost. We recently published a study in Health Affairs that looked at Emergency Department (ED) visits for Firearm-Related Injuries. In that study we found that the mean per person ED and inpatient charges were $5,254 and $95,887, respectively, resulting in an annual financial burden of approximately $2.8 billion in ED and inpatient charges. These estimates do not include the societal costs and in fact there are conservative estimates that gun violence costs the American economy at least $229 Billion every year. [all]