    [House Hearing, 116 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                SMALL BUSINESS PRIORITIES FOR THE 116TH CONGRESS

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                          COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                                 UNITED STATES
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                         ONE HUNDRED SIXTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                                  HEARING HELD
                               FEBRUARY 13, 2019

                                   __________

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                Small Business Committee Document Number 116-005
                 Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov

                                   __________

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                       HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

                     NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman
                             ABBY FINKENAUER, Iowa
                              ANDY KIM, New Jersey
                             SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
                              JARED GOLDEN, Maine
                              JASON CROW, Colorado
                              JUDY CHU, California
                               MARC VEASEY, Texas
                           DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
                            BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
                          ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York
                           ANTONIO DELGADO, New York
                         CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
                                     VACANT
                       STEVE CHABOT, Ohio, Ranking Member
       AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, American Samoa, Vice Ranking Member
                            TRENT KELLY, Mississippi
                              TROY BALDERSON, Ohio
                              KEVIN HERN, Oklahoma
                            JIM HAGEDORN, Minnesota
                            PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
                            TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee
                              ROSS SPANO, Florida
                            JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania

                    Adam Minehardt, Majority Staff Director
         Melissa Jung, Majority Deputy Staff Director and Chief Counsel
                       Kevin Fitzpatrick, Staff Director

                               C O N T E N T S

                               OPENING STATEMENT

                                                                       Page
    Hon. Nydia Velazquez.............................................     1
    Hon. Steve Chabot................................................     2

                                   WITNESSES

    Mr. John Arensmeyer, Founder & CEO, Small Business Majority,
      Washington, DC.................................................     4
    Ms. Sabrina Parsons, CEO, Palo Alto Software, Eugene, OR.........     6
    Mr. J. Kelly Conklin, Co-Owner & Founder, Foley Waite LLC,
      Kenilworth, NJ.................................................     8
    Mr. Thomas M. Sullivan, Vice President, Small Business Policy,
      Chamber of Commerce of the United States of America,
      Washington, DC.................................................     9

                                    APPENDIX

    Prepared Statements:
        Mr. John Arensmeyer, Founder & CEO, Small Business Majority,
          Washington, DC.............................................    40
        Ms. Sabrina Parsons, CEO, Palo Alto Software, Eugene, OR.....    47
        Mr. J. Kelly Conklin, Co-Owner & Founder, Foley Waite LLC,
          Kenilworth, NJ.............................................    53
        Mr. Thomas M. Sullivan, Vice President, Small Business
          Policy, Chamber of Commerce of the United States of
          America, Washington, DC....................................    59
    Questions for the Record:
        None.
    Answers for the Record:
        None.
    Additional Material for the Record:
        Employees and Consumers Benefiting from Tax Reform...........    65
        Statement of Hon. Jim Hagedorn...............................   119
        Recommendations for Subcommittees of the U.S. House Committee
          on Small Business..........................................   121
        U.S. Chamber Statement on the Green New Deal.................   172

                SMALL BUSINESS PRIORITIES FOR THE 116TH CONGRESS

                                  ----------

                          WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 2019

                      House of Representatives,
                   Committee on Small Business,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 11:00 a.m., in Room
    2360, Rayburn House Office Building. Hon. Nydia Velazquez
    [chairwoman of the Committee] presiding.
        Present: Representatives Velazquez, Finkenauer, Kim,
    Davids, Golden, Crow, Veasey, Evans, Schneider, Delgado,
    Houlahan, Chabot, Radewagen, Kelly, Balderson, Hern, Hagedorn,
    Stauber, Burchett, Spano, and Joyce.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Good morning. The Committee will come
    to order.
        I thank everyone for joining us this morning, and I want to
    especially thank the witnesses for being here today.
        As I am sure we all agree, small businesses are critical to
    the economic vitality and strength of our country. From the
    tech company that started as an idea between two friends, to
    more established Main Street retailers, or the local restaurant
    looking to expand operations, all play an important role in
    generating employment opportunities for our communities whether
    they are in rural or urban America.
        Starting a small business is what the American Dream is all
    about. But unfortunately, as recent economic data suggests,
    small firms are not without their own challenges. According to
    ADP reports, small employers are lagging behind their larger
    counterparts when it comes to hiring. Small business employment
    grew only half a percent year over year, compared to 1.7
    percent for all companies tracked by ADP. Declining confidence
    levels over economic uncertainty is also weighing heavily on
    small firms.
        That is why today's hearing is so timely. It will allow us
    to gain valuable perspectives on how to best help entrepreneurs
    continue to do what they do best, invest in themselves, their
    communities, and their workers.
        Today, we are joined by a distinguished panel of witnesses.
    This hearing is an opportunity to listen to their insights into
    the challenges facing small businesses, and specifically, how
    Congress can prioritize their needs. While the Small Business
    Administration and other partners provide extensive support,
    there is still more we as lawmakers can do to ensure their
    success. As we heard at last week's subcommittee hearing,
    access to capital remains an ongoing problem for countless
    small businesses regardless of their size or location.
        But this is not the only issue facing small firms. As the
    ADP numbers indicate, we are still finding that many business
    owners struggle to find qualified workers to fill job openings.
    This is particularly true in areas that have been ravaged by
    the ongoing opioid crisis or there has been a decline in
    population due to a lack of opportunities.
        Supporting policies to increase educational initiatives,
    develop a skilled workforce, and allow small employers to offer
    competitive benefits and wages to their workers are all key to
    leveling the playing field for small businesses.
        When it comes to taxes, entrepreneurs in every sector
    deserve more certainty than they are currently being offered.
    We can achieve this by taking steps to streamline the Tax Code
    and provide greater retirement options for small business
    owners and their employees. Finally, we also know the
    importance of providing increased access to contracting
    opportunities. This is especially true as Congress aims to
    tackle infrastructure reform. It is imperative that in this
    process we consider the economic potential that comes with
    ensuring small firms operating in sectors such as construction,
    engineering, and architecture, have a fair shot at receiving
    federal contracts.
        Today, the small business priorities we address will help
    us set our agenda moving forward this Congress. It is my hope
    that we will have a productive discussion.
        With that, I thank each of the witnesses for joining us
    today, and I look forward to your testimony.
        I would like to yield to the Ranking Member, Mr. Chabot,
    for his opening statement.
        Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
        There are more than 30 million small businesses all across
    this country. We call them the backbone of our national economy
    because they are fundamental to every community all over
    America. They create most of the new jobs in the economy, for
    example.
        Small businesses make up 99-99/100 percent of all firms.
    They employ nearly half of private sector employees and create
    two out of every three net new jobs. We call small businesses
    the lifeblood of our national economy because they are the
    essence of American strength and vitality. From entrepreneurs
    to generational mom and pop stores, small business owners
    personify diversity, creativity, and grit, essential
    ingredients of the American spirit.
        During my tenure on this Committee, one that spans over 2
    decades now, we have heard from thousands of small business
    owners, from economists and advocates, each with suggestions on
    how to improve the way small businesses perform. Our success at
    this Committee depends on open and honest dialogue with small
    businesses, industry leaders, and government officials. Members
    of this Committee will certainly have differing opinions on
    priority problems and policy solutions, but as we maintain our
    spirit of bipartisanship, I am confident that we will find more
    areas of common ground.
        Today, as we outline our policy agenda, we begin a search
    for small business issues that we can tackle together. Recent
    tax and regulatory relief has spurred economic growth and
    generated high levels of optimism within the small business
    community. In 2018, small business owners reported higher sales
    earnings, investments, and hiring. Bolstered by their
    confidence, they are looking to expand. At this Committee, we
    know that thriving small businesses create more jobs,
    revitalize communities, and sustain our national economy.
        Our efforts should focus on how we, the government, can
    support small business growth instead of constraining it with
    more red tape.
        In the 116th Congress, I look forward to continuing our
    rigorous oversight of the SBA, the Small Business
    Administration, and their contracting programs and regulatory
    regimes. We are the stewards of taxpayer dollars. When federal
    programs operate efficiently and effectively, everyone
    benefits.
        Madam Chairwoman, I am proud of the legislative successes
    that we have achieved together at the Small Business Committee,
    and I look forward to many more in the 116th Congress.
        I would like to thank our witnesses for being here, all
    four of them, and I yield back.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chabot. The gentleman
    yields back.
        If committee members have an opening statement prepared, we
    would ask that they be submitted for the record.
        I would like to take a minute to explain the timing rules.
    Each witness gets 5 minutes to testify and the members get 5
    minutes for questioning. There is a lighting system to assist
    you. The green light will be on when you begin, and the yellow
    light comes on when you have 1 minute remaining. The red light
    comes on when you are out of time, and we ask that you stay
    within the timeframe to the best of your ability.
        I would now like to introduce our witnesses.
        Our first witness is Mr. John Arensmeyer. Mr. Arensmeyer is
    founder and CEO of Small Business Majority, a national small
    business advocacy organization focused on empowering America's
    entrepreneurs to build a thriving and inclusive economy. Prior
    to starting Small Business Majority, Mr. Arensmeyer founded ACI
    Interactive, an award-winning, international interactive
    communications company. Welcome.
        Our second witness is Ms. Sabrina Parsons. Ms. Parsons is
    the CEO of Palo Alto Software, a business and marketing plan
    software company based in Oregon. As a staunch supporter of
    entrepreneurs, she is regularly invited to participate as a
    judge for business plan competitions across the U.S., as well
    as to speak on business planning, leadership, and women in
    technology.
        Our third witness today is Mr. J. Kelly Conklin. Mr.
    Conklin lives in Glen Ridge, New Jersey, with his wife and
    business co-owner. In 1968, they founded Foley Waite, LLC, an
    architectural woodworking firm located in Kenilworth, New
    Jersey. Mr. Conklin is Chairman of the Executive Committee of
    the Main Street Alliance, a national network of over 30,000
    small business owners. He also serves on numerous boards,
    including 14 years on the Glen Ridge Planning Board.
        And I now would like to yield to our Ranking Member, Mr.
    Chabot, to introduce our final witness.
        Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        I would like to introduce today's final witness, Thomas
    Sullivan. Mr. Sullivan is the vice president of Small Business
    Policy at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. In this capacity, he
    manages the Chamber's Small Business Council, which facilitates
    small business input and involvement in Chamber activities. Mr.
    Sullivan has advocated for small businesses in the public,
    private, and nonprofit sector. Most notably, he served as Chief
    Counsel for Advocacy at the SBA under President George W. Bush.
    Tom is an expert on small business policy and a long-time
    friend of this Committee. Thank you for joining us today. We
    appreciate it, and I yield back.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
        Mr. Arensmeyer, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

      STATEMENTS OF JOHN ARENSMEYER, FOUNDER & CEO SMALL BUSINESS
      MAJORITY; SABRINA PARSONS, CEO PALO ALTO SOFTWARE; J. KELLY
    CONKLIN CO-OWNER & FOUNDER FOLEY WAITE LLC; THOMAS M. SULLIVAN,
     VICE PRESIDENT, SMALL BUSINESS POLICY, CHAMBER OF COMMERCE OF
                      THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

                      STATEMENT OF JOHN ARENSMEYER

        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Thank you, Chairwoman Velazquez, Ranking
    Member Chabot, and distinguished members of the Committee.
    Thank you for inviting us to speak with you today.
        As a long-time small business owner, I founded Small
    Business Majority 13 years ago to empower America's
    entrepreneurs to build a thriving and inclusive economy.
        We have a network of 58,000 small business owners across
    the country, with eight regional offices and partnerships with
    over 1,000 business organizations. We advocate for smart public
    policy solutions and deliver information and resources to
    entrepreneurs with a particular focus on underserved
    entrepreneurs--women, people of color, immigrants, and rural
    small business owners.
        We have created a policy agenda that focuses on seven
    topics--access to capital, health care, retirement and other
    portable benefits, entrepreneurship and the freelance economy,
    supporting a skilled small business workforce, infrastructure
    and economic development, and taxes.
        I am going to address the first three issues briefly today
    but I am happy to answer questions about any one of those
    topics.
        On access to capital, it is no secret that small business
    owners face significant hurdles accessing capital. Small
    businesses' share of total bank loans fell from 31 percent in
    2010 to 21 percent in 2016, while the average small business
    loan amount has steadily increased, making loans less available
    for the smallest businesses.
        Moreover, women business owners get nearly 50 percent less
    in funding than their male counterparts. Similarly, a SBA study
    found African American and Hispanic business owners were more
    likely to report unmet credit needs.
        New alternative and online lending opportunities have
    sprung up to fill this market need. This is a potentially
    positive development for small businesses. However, alternative
    sources of financing operate in an almost entirely unregulated
    market, making many small business owners vulnerable to
    predatory practices. This new industry must be built on
    transparency, fairness, and putting the rights of borrowers at
    the center of the process.
        A desire to encourage responsible innovation in online
    lending is what drove us to cofound the Responsible Business
    Lending Coalition (RBLC) in 2015. The RBLC has published the
    Small Business Borrowers' Bill of Rights, a guide for
    responsible small business lending standards that more than 90
    fintech lenders, banks, and other groups have signed onto. The
    RBLC has also produced policy recommendations for a national
    Small Business Truth in Lending Act modeled on a law enacted
    last year in California.
        Other policy recommendations include quadrupling annual SBA
    lending guarantees from $25 billion to $100 billion, thereby
    increasing the volume of small business loans guaranteed by the
    SBA to $1 trillion over the next decade. Increasing loan
    guarantee percentages from 85 percent to 90 percent for loans
    up to $150,000, and from 75 to 85 percent for loans between
    $150,000 and $700,000. Dramatically expanding the annual budget
    of the CDFI Fund from $250 million to $1 billion, and
    prohibiting confessions of judgment in which borrowers agree in
    advance to lose any dispute with the lender.
        On health care, since its enactment, the ACA has provided
    health care to 24 million individuals who otherwise could not
    access coverage, many of whom work for small employers or are
    themselves small business owners or self-employed individuals.
    What is not well understood is that more than half of all ACA
    marketplace enrollees fall into these entrepreneurship
    categories.
        So we must do three things: strengthen our healthcare
    markets, expand health coverage, and reduce drug prices while
    containing other inefficient costs in the system. Our
    recommendations include maintaining protections for individuals
    with preexisting conditions, addressing the rising cost of
    prescription drugs, protecting consumers from surprise building
    by limiting patient out-of-network cost-sharing. Blocking the
    extension of both short-term health insurance plans and
    association health plans, both of which offer inadequate
    coverage and remove younger, healthier individuals from the
    general pool, thus increasing costs for everybody else and
    destabilizing markets, allowing people to buy into Medicaid
    and/or Medicare, guaranteeing cost-sharing subsidies to
    insurers, and creating a reinsurance program.
        Finally, we need a modernized benefits infrastructure that
    serves today's independent entrepreneurs and small business
    owners who do not work for large corporations. We recommend the
    following: supporting Federal efforts to establish a publicly
    administered retirement savings program, like the Secure Choice
    programs in some states and make participation open to the
    self-employed; passing the FAMILY Act to establish a national
    program that provides partial wage replacement for small
    business employees and the self-employed; and there are a
    number of other recommendations in our policy agenda.
        Finally, Congress must focus on the particular needs of
    rural entrepreneurs who start businesses at higher rates than
    their urban counterparts and have higher 5-year business
    survival rates while facing a unique set of challenges.
    Yesterday, we released a report on rural entrepreneurship, a
    copy of which we will provide to the Committee.
        Thank you for the opportunity to comment on these important
    issues. I look forward to answering your questions.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Arensmeyer.
        Ms. Parsons, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                      STATEMENT OF SABRINA PARSONS

        Ms. PARSONS. Chairwoman Velazquez, Ranking Member Chabot,
    and members of the Committee, thank you for the invitation to
    testify today about the needs and policy priorities of small
    businesses around the United States.
        My name is Sabrina Parsons. I became CEO of Palo Alto
    Software in 2007 and have grown the business to over 70 full-
    time employees. I am also an active supporter of entrepreneurs
    in Oregon where my company is based, and a member of Main
    Street Alliance, a network of 30,000 small business owners.
        The policy priorities I am going to discuss with you today
    support the family life of both small business owners and
    employees, invest in entrepreneurship of women and people of
    color, boost wages, and protect the immigrant members of our
    communities.
        Small businesses need national paid family medical leave.
    Eighty-three percent of the U.S. workforce lacks employer-
    provided, paid family leave care for a new child or a seriously
    ill loved one, and more than 60 percent do not have employer-
    provided temporary disability insurance to protect them when
    they need time away from their jobs to address a serious health
    issue or injury.
        Although Palo Alto Software is now able to provide paid
    leave, most small businesses lack the scale, expertise, and
    resources for such a policy. When my company was smaller, we
    could not afford the comprehensive paid leave we can today. And
    in other industries it is even harder. For example, it is very
    difficult in the restaurant industry where profit margins are
    very narrow.
        Access to paid leave should not depend on the size of
    business or where a person lives and works. We need a Federal
    program that gives all worker and small business owners the
    kind of leave that Palo Alto Software offers.
        For that reason, I ask you to support the Family Act, which
    would create an affordable, self-sustaining national family and
    medical leave insurance program, making paid leave affordable
    and feasible for small businesses.
        Small businesses need a strong public investment in child
    care. As the mother of three, I know the impact of family
    responsibilities on employees and small business owners alike.
    The dearth of affordable child care provided by well-
    compensated professionals frequently stands in the way of small
    business success and growth.
        The astronomical costs of child care put parents in a bind.
    Nearly one in three families report spending 20 percent or more
    of their annual household income on child care. In 28 states,
    including my home state of Oregon, child care costs more than
    in-state public college tuition.
        We ask you to support Child Care for Working Families Act,
    which would make unprecedented investments to ensure all
    children have access to high-quality, early education, and
    ensure that people who work in child care and earn a living
    wage.
        Boosting wages helps small businesses. The starting salary
    for any employee at my company is $16 an hour, even customer
    service, which generally pays very low wages. Given what it
    takes for a family to make ends meet in Eugene, Oregon, I feel
    strongly that people need to be paid living wages. Raising
    wages is also better for business. When you pay $7 an hour, you
    experience employee turnover over a period of 2 or 3 years that
    ultimately can devastate a small business's bottom line.
        I understand that raising the minimum wage is a source of
    fear for many small businesses. However, the financials will
    work out and make businesses stronger, and I believe this is an
    area of tremendous opportunity for the SBA and others to
    provide better financial management training, education, and
    assistance to small businesses.
        Fair treatment of immigrants is a small business issue. I
    am the daughter of an immigrant mother and a U.S.-born father.
    I was born in Mexico City and lived there until I was seven and
    spoke Spanish before I spoke English. My mother recently became
    a citizen of the United States. Humane and just immigration
    policy is important to me as the daughter of an immigrant, as a
    mother and community member, and as a businesswoman.
        We owe it to all immigrants and ourselves to adopt an
    immigration policy that respects family and the basic tenets of
    freedom. Please put an end to family separation. Please do
    whatever possible to bring healing to the families torn apart
    by this policy. And please ensure that the immigrant business
    owners, other immigrants in our community, and those who are
    seeking refuge here have a fair opportunity to live, work, and
    develop businesses here. The facts show these immigrants bring
    more positive than negative to our country and are an integral
    part of who America is.
        Lack of equitable capital continues to hamper small
    businesses, particularly for women and people of color. The
    Wall Street Journal reports that Black-owned businesses
    received only 11 percent of Small Business Administration loans
    in 2008, and only 2.3 percent of those SBA loans in 2013. Women
    entrepreneurs also experience disparities. A study by
    Biz2Credit found that women-owned firms had a loan approval
    rate that was 15 to 20 percent lower than their male
    counterparts.
        I urge you to pass measures to eliminate racial and gender
    discrimination in small business lending and recognize that
    there is a need to open access to affordable capital for small
    businesses, particularly those owned by entrepreneurs who are
    women and people of color. I also ask you to bring
    transparency, oversight, and fair terms to all forms of small
    business lending, whether bank or non-banking loans.
        I appreciate the opportunity to share concerns and policy
    priorities for small business owners.
        Thank you, and I look forward to answering your questions.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Ms. Parsons.
        Mr. Conklin, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                     STATEMENT OF J. KELLY CONKLIN

        Mr. CONKLIN. Thank you, Chairwoman Vasquez, Ranking Member
    Chabot, members of the Committee.
        I appreciate the invitation to testify here today on behalf
    of real small business people like me. We do form the backbone
    of Main Street communities across the country.
        My name is Kelly Conklin, and I am Chair of Main Street
    Alliance. Our organization creates opportunities for small
    business owners to speak for ourselves on public policy issues
    that impact our businesses, our employees, and the communities
    we serve.
        In 1978, my wife and I founded Foley Waite, an
    architectural woodworking firm. She was on one end of a sheet
    of plywood and I on the other, working out of an 800 square
    foot shop we lived over. Now our company owns a 13,600 square
    foot building and employees 14 people.
        Real small businesses like mine need policies, such as
    universal health care, a fair tax system, equitable access to
    capital, and paid family and medical leave, that serve the
    needs of small business and that take into account the ways in
    which racial and gender inequity serve as gatekeepers that
    structure the small business sector.
        Small businesses need high-quality--we are going to say
    this over and over again today--high-quality, publicly-funded,
    universal health care. The Affordable Care Act was an important
    step in the right direction for small businesses but there is
    much, much more Congress needs to do.
        With the ACA, I saw my premiums finally begin to stabilize.
    Then Republican leaders began massaging the ACA and creating
    uncertainty. We know this has increased premiums in the
    marketplace for individuals. April 15th is a day I dread, not
    because it is Tax Day but because that is when I will find out
    what this year's insurance premiums will be, how much they will
    go up. My business went from providing 100 percent of coverage
    for our employees to 85 percent, and now we are at 80 percent.
    And we spend $8,000 a month on health care, a real hit. If my
    wife and I could put half that money into our business, we
    would have one of the most modern, well-equipped architectural
    woodworking businesses on the East Coast.
        We need universal, high-quality, publicly-funded coverage
    that is affordable for everyone. This is not too expensive. The
    private sector is delivering the most expensive and inefficient
    health care in the world. The cost of doing nothing is too
    great.
        Our Tax Code should prioritize strong public investment
    over corporate profits. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act passed in
    2017 hurts small businesses. The Joint Committee on Taxation
    found that 61 percent of the benefits of this deduction will go
    to the richest 1 percent of pass-through business owners by
    2024. Just 4 percent of the bottom two-thirds will benefit.
        The revenue lost to tax breaks for the very wealthy and big
    corporations are made up for on Main Street with deteriorating
    infrastructure and loss of services. We ask Congress to repeal
    the Tax and Jobs Act with its tax giveaways to large
    corporations and the very rich. Instead, create a tax system
    that ensures the rich and big corporations pay their share of
    taxes. Let us close corporate tax loopholes and create a more
    progressive income tax structure.
        Small businesses need equitable access to affordable
    capital and protection from predatory financing. Bank lending
    to small businesses has not fully recovered since the
    recession. There is compelling evidence pointing to a
    persistent racial discrimination and redlining in small
    business bank lending.
        The Minority Business Development Agency found that
    business owners of color are 2.5 times more likely to be denied
    when applying for traditional business loans compared to white
    business owners. A 2014 study reported that women entrepreneurs
    receive 16 percent of conventional bank loans and 17 percent of
    SBA loans, even though they represent 30 percent of small
    businesses.
        We need lawmakers to hold banks accountable for
    discrimination in lending and ensure entrepreneurs of color and
    women get a real opportunity to start and grow their
    businesses. Protect small business borrowers from predatory
    lending with transparency in lending, reasonable terms and
    underwriting, and honest practices.
        Families are part of our bottom line. Only 17 percent of
    the U.S. workforce have paid family leave through their
    employers, and less than 40 percent have personal medical leave
    through an employer-provided temporary disability program.
        In New Jersey, we are fortunate to have had a state paid
    program for more than 8 years, and I have encouraged two of my
    employees to use it, one after his mother suffered a severe
    brain injury and one after an employee's wife received a cancer
    diagnosis.
        The Family Act will create a national paid family and
    medical----
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Conklin, your time has expired.
    During the question and answer period you will have some time
    to expand.
        Mr. CONKLIN. Okay. Thank you.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you for your testimony.
        Mr. Sullivan, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF THOMAS M. SULLIVAN

        Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you, Chairwoman Velazquez, Ranking
    Member Chabot, and members of the Committee, for the
    opportunity to outline the U.S. Chamber of Commerce's small
    business priorities.
        Ninety-seven percent of Chamber members are small
    businesses, and the Small Business Council that I head works to
    ensure their views are considered as part of our policymaking
    process. In addition to receiving input from our Small Business
    Council, we learn a great deal from our quarterly small
    business index and from our engagement with small businesses
    where they live and work at our regional small business
    summits.
        The priorities that I will outline really have at the top
    of the list workforce, the need for workers. The top priority
    of the Chamber is to address the worker shortage that is making
    it difficult for small businesses to grow.
        The top issue for the small businesses I talk with every
    day is finding, recruiting, hiring, and retaining qualified and
    willing employees. There is really no single piece of
    legislation that can solve Main Street's challenge of a worker
    shortage. However, we believe there are legislative and
    business leadership solutions that will go far in addressing
    the need for workers, and those are outlined in more detail in
    my written statement.
        Immigration. The Chamber has long supported common sense
    reforms to our Nation's broken immigration system. And when
    businesses large and small are prevented from growing because
    of a lack of workers, our call for reform is even more urgent.
        As far as education goes, the Chamber supports high-
    quality, lifelong learning to ensure all Americans have the
    opportunity to reach their potential. There are several
    legislative initiatives to expand high-quality education that
    we support, and expand and improve training and retraining
    programs that include employer-led ``earn and learn''
    opportunities like apprenticeships.
        Competing for talent and retention of employees. The
    Chamber believes that providing small businesses with
    healthcare coverage options and retirement options for their
    employees are key ingredients for growth and allow them to
    compete for and retain top talent.
        Our local and state chamber of commerce partners are
    excited about new opportunities to provide healthcare coverage
    and retirement benefits for their small business members, and I
    am hoping in the question and answers that I would be able to
    detail some of those opportunities.
        Access to capital. It is no surprise that this Committee is
    already off to a good start when it comes to forwarding
    bipartisan legislation that will help small businesses access
    the capital they need to start, sustain, and grow. We hope that
    H.R. 116, the Investing in Main Street Act, is taken up by the
    Senate and signed into law. And we look forward to working with
    this Committee on additional legislation that will help provide
    access to capital for startups and small businesses.
        Regulatory relief. SBA's Office of Advocacy acts as the
    watchdog for small business within the Federal Government and
    oversees implementation of the Regulatory Flexibility Act,
    which is under this Committee's jurisdiction. I was honored to
    lead that office from 2002 to 2008, and I appreciate this
    Committee's support for that office and its mission.
        One of our priorities for this Congress is to work with you
    on legislation that can improve that office's work to the
    benefit of our Nation's small business community.
        Infrastructure. The Chamber is buoyed by the bipartisan
    agreement that seems to surround infrastructure, and we
    encourage you to help the Committees of jurisdiction to get the
    legislation moving.
        As far as working with other Committees, from
    Infrastructure to Health Care, to Trade and Tariffs, to Tax
    Policy, many of the Chamber's small business priorities fall
    within the legislative jurisdiction of Committees other than
    this one. To the credit of you all, you have a history of
    helping those Committees understand the unique concerns of
    small businesses. I compliment your vigilance in this area and
    want to stress the importance of continued cross-Committee work
    when it comes to small business priorities. At the Chamber, we
    are similarly dedicated to advancing these and other policies
    that can benefit Main Street businesses, fuel the economy,
    provide for individuals and families, and grow communities.
    Thank you.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Sullivan.
        I recognize myself for 5 minutes. And I would like to
    address the first question to the members of the panel.
        As a staunch supporter of entrepreneurs, I want to make
    sure that I am doing everything within my power to provide the
    tools to help small businesses and the business community to
    turn an idea into a flourishing business. So as an active
    member of the entrepreneurship community, what are some of the
    opportunities and challenges that you see on the horizon? What
    will be that one issue that you feel will make a difference in
    empowering that small individual to turn an idea into a
    startup?
        Mr. Arensmeyer?
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Well, first, I think we need to make sure
    we are connecting small business owners and entrepreneurs with
    all the programs that are out there. We have a very extensive
    entrepreneurship program across the country where we not only
    provide education but we provide resources both online and
    face-to-face. But most importantly, we connect people with
    resources that are out there, resources from the SBA, resources
    from the U.S. Department of Agriculture. I am pleased to see
    the Rural Entrepreneurship Program has continued in the recent
    Farm Bill. So a lot of it is just connecting people with
    resources.
        We need to make sure that they are connected to the local
    community banks. The problem is there is no one solution. We
    have to, when it comes to lending, you know, there are 7(a)
    loans. There are other microloan programs, et cetera, but there
    is no sort of one place where a small business owner can go to
    get everything.
        We are optimistic that some of the technology embedded in
    some of the fintech products can be useful but we cannot let
    those expand without very strict guidelines around
    transparency, around underwriting rules because literally what
    is happening is a lot of those small business owners are being
    taken advantage of much the way individuals get taken advantage
    of by payday loans. So it is a combination of making sure
    people have access to resources and setting up policies to
    ensure maximum access.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
        Ms. Parsons, I know that you care deeply about providing a
    level playing field for women entrepreneurs, and we know that
    women receive nearly 50 percent less funding compared to male-
    owned businesses. How do you see this committee enacting
    legislation or how can we enhance the programs so that we
    provide that level playing field for women?
        Ms. PARSONS. Yeah, thank you. I think that is a great
    question.
        Right now, if you want to get a loan for your small
    business startup, and that is usually where people are going,
    we have this system in place where banks, including SBA-backed
    loans, are asking entrepreneurs to have 2 years in business and
    $250,000 of revenue as a starting point, which clearly if you
    are a startup entrepreneur you have neither, which then means
    people are using personal assets to start their businesses. And
    this is why women and people of color are falling behind. All
    the statistics show that women have less access to personal
    assets and personal guarantees. And so you just have this
    catch-22 of the same entrepreneurs who have access to resources
    are the only ones who can start businesses.
        So the first thing that has to happen I think is the
    recognition that where we are today and how we lend simply
    leaves behind people who do not have access to personal assets
    and who do not have personal wealth. And that would be the
    first thing.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
        Mr. Conklin?
        Mr. CONKLIN. Well, the single biggest problem we face, and
    it has been an ongoing problem throughout the 40 years we have
    been in business, is manpower. Skilled manpower. Access to
    people who are trained and knowledgeable and can step into our
    facility and safely do the work we do. And there is a focus I
    think both educationally and culturally in our society that is
    blind--to I think a very good opportunity for people to make
    very good living--doing the kind of work we do. The focus on
    STEM in education and the abandonment of training folks in the
    trades and crafts over the course of the time we have been in
    business. I went to the School for American Craftsmen. I do not
    think it exists anymore.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
        Mr. CONKLIN. And my wife went to Philadelphia College of
    Art. So we have to have workers and we have to have an
    immigration policy that recognizes that the skillsets necessary
    for small businesses to function include using tools, like saws
    and chisels and hammers.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Conklin.
        Mr. Sullivan, I will come back to you in the second round.
    My time has expired and now I recognize the Ranking Member for
    5 minutes.
        Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        It is a relatively new concept but I would like to get each
    of your input or opinion on this briefly. Would you be inclined
    to be for or against the so-called Green New Deal?
        Mr. Arensmeyer?
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Well, there is no question that we have got
    a major problem facing us, and we need to take dramatic action.
    We have not studied the details. I am not even sure there is
    that sort of a document so I cannot say that we would support
    everything in it. But we definitely support the concept. And I
    think what is important to remember is that as we figure out
    how to reduce our carbon footprint and create more renewal
    opportunities, there are business opportunities. And many of
    those business opportunities are available to small businesses.
    So we would like to see as part of a--and yes, there does need
    to be a comprehensive effort to deal with this--we would like
    to see making sure there is a role for entrepreneurship and for
    new technologies and for new opportunities for business which
    we think can create a whole new generation of jobs in this
    country.
        Mr. CHABOT. Ms. Parsons, inclined to be for it or opposed
    to it?
        Ms. PARSONS. I am inclined to be for it. Obviously, there
    are not the details necessary, but I----
        Mr. CHABOT. Let me just stop you there. And Mr. Conklin,
    because I have only got limited time, I have got other
    questions.
        Mr. CONKLIN. Sure. Yes.
        Mr. CHABOT. Inclined to be for or against?
        Mr. CONKLIN. For.
        Mr. CHABOT. Okay. Mr. Sullivan?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Congressman Chabot, the U.S. Chamber of
    Commerce issued a very strong statement opposing the Green New
    Deal. I would like to submit that to the Committee with your
    permission.
        Mr. CHABOT. Yes, absolutely. We would welcome that.
        Let me go back to you, Mr. Sullivan. The 2018 surveys
    relative to small businesses recorded really record-breaking
    levels of optimism among small business owners. Are there a
    couple of things that you would attribute that to, or what is
    your opinion on that?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you, Congressman Chabot.
        We think that there was a significant change in the
    attitude of small business on whether or not Washington, D.C.
    was wind in their face or wind in the back, and in
    particularly, this administration's attention to regulatory
    relief, red tape relief for small business. We believe that is
    the single most ingredients that has caused small business
    optimism to be as high as it has been over the last year and a
    half.
        Mr. CHABOT. Okay. Thank you.
        Let me follow up. Some of the other witnesses, one in
    particular, indicated that the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was not
    helpful. In fact, not putting words in their mouth, but just
    basically went to the wealthy and not others. What is your
    opinion relative to how small businesses were affected, either
    positively or negatively as a result of that legislation?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you for the question, Congressman.
        First of all, with regard to our quarterly survey, when we
    surveyed small business owners when tax cuts were passed in
    late 2017, their optimism spiked. So that had raised the
    highest optimism levels that we have seen, and I think that is
    echoed by the monthly confidence survey that was issued by
    NFIB. So the initial passage was a huge boost to small business
    confidence. What we have seen since then is a steady stream of
    small businesses who have told us that they have reinvested
    savings from tax cuts into growing their businesses. And with
    the Congressman's permission, I have a list of 612 of those
    companies over the past year who are willing to be very public
    about the reinvestment that has occurred because of the tax
    cuts. So we were very favorable of the tax reform and the
    statements by small businesses from the past year backup our
    support.
        Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much.
        Madam Chair, I would ask that those, by unanimous consent,
    be part of the record.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Sure. Without objection.
        Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much.
        And I have only got a little bit of time left, but
    workforce came up by a couple of the witnesses, and I know that
    when I go around my district that is one of the first things
    that the small business folks, or even medium business or even
    large talk about how tough it is to find good, qualified
    people.
        Real quickly, Mr. Arensmeyer, is that something that you
    think is a real challenge? Or what can we do about it?
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Absolutely it is a real challenge. And we
    need to have policies that encourage--first of all, there is a
    labor shortage now in this country, so we need to have
    immigration policies that recognize this and recognize the
    tremendous value that immigrants bring to our economy. And we
    need to need to make sure that we are matching the skills of
    employees with the needs of small business owners. We found
    this particularly in the rural study we just did where there
    was even a bigger gap in rural areas between the needs of small
    businesses and the population.
        Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
        Now I recognize Representative Andy Kim, Chairman of the
    Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Tax, and Capital Access for 5
    minutes.
        Mr. KIM. Great, thank you.
        I am very honored to be on this Committee and be able to
    look out for small businesses across my district, across New
    Jersey, and across the country.
        Small businesses are the lifeblood of both Burlington
    County and Ocean County where I reside, and we are very much
    focused on what we can do. And as I have gone around both
    counties and talked with business owners and talked with other
    entrepreneurs, what comes up often is our concern in New
    Jersey, and I am sure in a lot of other places about our young
    Americans, especially coming out from schools, we are worried
    about brain drain and other issues of that as we have seen an
    exodus out from New Jersey.
        So I wanted to just focus on that in two ways. First, with
    regard to student debt and the huge amounts of problems that
    young Americans face with regard to the debt that they carry,
    how does that impact--I wanted to ask Mr. Arensmeyer about
    this. I wanted to ask, you know, what can we do to try to help
    alleviate these issues, to help entrepreneurship with younger
    Americans while they are still dealing with student debt? Are
    there any particular ideas that come to your mind?
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Thank you, Congressman.
        We actually did a poll 1-1/2, 2 years ago of millennials,
    and we found that almost half of them say that their student
    loan debt has been an impediment to them considering starting a
    business. I mean, that is huge. I mean, this is a new
    generation of Americans, new generation of people who we want
    to continue to start small businesses. So figuring out how to
    get some kind of student loan debt relief is absolutely
    essential to making sure that we foster the next generation of
    entrepreneurs.
        Mr. KIM. Thank you.
        In addition to making sure we can foster the
    entrepreneurship and the start of small businesses, I think a
    number of you also talked about the workforce developing and
    making sure that we are bringing in top talent in terms of the
    employees of these small businesses. So I wanted to ask Mr.
    Sullivan and Mr. Conklin to just go into this a little more. I
    had some very good meetings yesterday with different community
    college leaders and others that had been talking about this,
    and in New Jersey, trying to find ways to strengthen that
    pipeline between colleges and universities and training centers
    to small businesses in particular. And I wanted to ask you if
    you had any lessons learned or any good examples from around
    the country that, you know, we certainly might be able to draw
    upon in New Jersey and elsewhere and we on this Committee might
    be able to use and replicate to be able to strengthen that
    pipeline.
        So Mr. Sullivan, why do we not start with you?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you, Congressman.
        So at the Chamber, we are really very proud of our
    Foundation that has what is called a Talent Pipeline Management
    Program. Really, the fundamental idea here is to connect the
    business community and what they need with what the workforce
    training centers are training the eligible employees. There has
    been a disconnect in many communities where the workforce
    process is teaching things the local community does not need.
    So something as simple as connecting the need with the training
    has actually gone very far. And this is a program that is
    basically open sourced from our Chamber Foundation to local
    communities through their workforce centers, through local
    chambers of commerce, and other employer organizations. So I am
    happy to share with the Congressman a more detailed explanation
    of our Talent Pipeline Management program, but it is an
    exciting initiative that we believe will go far in addressing
    the workforce issue.
        Mr. KIM. Great. Thank you. I certainly would love to follow
    up with you and learn some more about that. So let us talk
    offline.
        Mr. Conklin?
        Mr. CONKLIN. Yes. Thank you, Congressman.
        Well, we have a member in Oregon who worked with others in
    his industry, the auto repair industry, to set up an
    apprenticeship program. They linked with local high schools and
    they replicated a program that existed when I was in high
    school. And that was a part-time apprenticeship, part-time
    school curriculum day for kids who were interested in
    particular trades. It was pretty much limited to the auto trade
    when I was a kid. I have heard of similar programs that involve
    electricians and plumbers. That is a pretty basic approach, but
    you first have to convince people that that is a path they want
    to follow. And we have a cultural disconnect between the
    reality of what is happening on the shop floor, say at Foley
    Waite and what we are preparing people for and encouraging them
    to follow. Part of it is that I do not think people understand
    how well you can do in the trades. You can do very well in the
    trades. You could have a great career in the trades. But we are
    not really encouraging people, and people, kids particularly do
    not seem to be particularly interested in pursuing it. There is
    some work involved and that is something that I think is a
    little discouraging, and there is some work involved in making
    it happen.
        Mr. KIM. Great. Thank you so much.
        I yield back.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
        And I recognize the gentlelady from American Samoa, Ms.
    Amata Radewagen, Vice Ranking Member with the committee for 5
    minutes.
        Ms. RADEWAGEN. Talofa, and good morning.
        I want to thank you, Chairwoman Velazquez, and Ranking
    Member Chabot for holding this hearing. And I want to thank all
    of you for testifying today.
        I am honored to serve on this Committee, as strengthening
    and diversifying the economy through the growth of small
    businesses of American Samoa. It is one of my biggest
    priorities.
        Like the rest of the country, small businesses make up the
    majority of the businesses in my home of American Samoa.
    Unfortunately, due to the remoteness of American Samoa, it is
    difficult for my constituents to receive the technical
    education to grow their businesses, although our SBDC is doing
    a great job to raise awareness of their services.
        One of my main concerns is a lack of microlending in
    American Samoa. I have seen microlending in neighboring
    independent Samoa and it has met with great success. I look
    forward to working with you all over the next 2 years to
    continue to grow America's small businesses.
        Now, Mr. Arensmeyer, my question is for you. How can
    existing entrepreneurial development resources, such as Small
    Business Development Centers, Women's Business Centers, SCORE,
    or Veterans Business Outreach Centers better tailor their
    programs to meet the needs of underserved businesses?
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Thank you. And absolutely, there are some
    great programs out there. We work very closely with the SBDCs,
    with the Women's Business Centers, with SCORE, with veterans'
    groups. And I am glad to hear that in American Samoa there is a
    thriving SBDC. We need to get those resources in the hands of
    people. A lot of times small business owners, they maybe think
    they need capital but they are not ready for it or they need to
    do some things to fix their credit. They need to maybe come up
    with a business plan to better understand where they are going
    before they actually get credit, and those organizations can be
    very useful and we spend a lot of our time connecting small
    business owners with those organizations. So, I do not know, I
    am guessing the Rural Microentrepreneur's Business Program
    applies to American Samoa, I am not sure, but that is a program
    that we definitely think needs to be strengthened. And we do
    need to continue to connect businesses with those resources
    that are out there.
        Ms. RADEWAGEN. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I yield the
    remainder of my time.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back.
        And now I recognize the gentleman from Maine, Jared Golden,
    Chairman of the Subcommittee on Contracting and Infrastructure
    for 5 minutes.
        Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        Mr. Sullivan, I thought we would talk a little bit about
    infrastructure. You expressed some interest in that.
        If this Committee were going to work, let us say, with the
    Transportation Committee or even work independently on our own,
    what would your members of the Chamber look for, particularly
    let us talk about ones from rural communities, like a state
    like Maine and very small businesses. You know, would they put
    the priority on something like broadband? Would they put it on
    rail development? Would they put it on just straight roads and
    bridges? And as a follow up, if you could also talk a little
    bit about how would we ensure that an infrastructure package
    truly got down to small businesses and into rural communities,
    thinking about maybe specific provisions that would ensure that
    it does not just go to the states that maybe have more money or
    bigger companies that have more resources for things like
    matching fund requirements or other provisions.
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you, Congressman, for the question.
        So the threshold answer to your question is that small
    businesses are hugely enthusiastic about infrastructure reform,
    which I cannot overstate the optimism that our members have
    with Congress coming together in a bipartisan way on this
    issue. That is not normal these days, and because
    infrastructure does have such a bipartisan enthusiasm, that has
    made small business owners who I speak with very optimistic.
        We had a conference on this topic just last week. I was
    told it was the first time ever we had a small business panel
    as part of this conference. And their answer to your question
    of which need do we address was ``all of the above.'' And I
    mean, that gets at the beauty of this Committee and the beauty
    of Congress, is that you all have small business communities
    who want different things. But the constant throughout is that
    infrastructure is absolutely crumbling. What we heard last week
    primarily were the traditional things of roads and bridges
    because you have this kind of, this duality. On the one hand,
    small business owners cannot get to their jobs, whether it is a
    bad road or a damaged bridge, that is curbing their ability to
    get more jobs and make more money and grow. The second part of
    that duality is that these small business owners are convinced
    that when there is that investment nationally, that they will
    receive some of the benefits of infrastructure spending and
    construction. And so as you know, many of the small business
    owners are in that business, and so they have a dual benefit.
        As far as the formula goes, I would love to follow up with
    you and get into some of the more particulars on what we are
    supporting on infrastructure reform.
        Mr. GOLDEN. I would appreciate that. In fact, I think I am
    meeting with one of your counterparts later to talk in depth
    about some of this.
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you.
        Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you.
        If I could, Mr. Arensmeyer, you talked a little bit about
    in your testimony about how we can bring an advantage to rural
    small businesses when talking about opportunity zones. And I
    think you talked a little bit about concerns that it may
    sometimes not benefit small businesses specifically but rather
    sometimes just go towards real estate development, which is
    fine. But I think that we also want to, I mean, the point is to
    create jobs. So if you could just talk, maybe expand upon that
    testimony a little bit more.
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Sure, Congressman.
        There is no question that investing in real estate is
    sometimes easier to figure out, to make happen, to underwrite
    than investing in small business. So what we do not want to see
    happen is have the Opportunity Zones kind of devolve into, you
    know, primarily real estate projects and not enough support for
    actual small businesses. So there needs to be an effort. There
    need to be guidelines--I believe those are still being worked
    on by the Treasury Department--to make sure that actually, a
    good chunk of that investment is going directly to small
    business. We are not opposed to some of it going to real estate
    but we want to make sure that it does not end up being the easy
    way out in terms of underwriting these investments. So we think
    that is critical. And we think it is the legislative intent of
    the bipartisan support that existed for the Opportunity Zones
    from both sides that that be the case.
        Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back?
        Mr. GOLDEN. Yes, ma'am.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
        Now I recognize the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Balderson,
    Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Innovation and Workforce
    Development for 5 minutes.
        Mr. BALDERSON. Thank you, Madam Chair, and the Ranking
    Member for holding this testimony today. Congressman Hern.
    Sorry about that, everybody.
        I see this as an opportunity for members of our Committee
    to plan for the next 2 years and share each of our priorities
    to help lift America's small businesses. In Ohio, we have a
    saying that our state is the heart of it all, and like much of
    small businesses are the heart of the American economy. So I
    look forward to working with all of you and having your input.
    As the Madam Chair said, regarding my position in Workforce
    Development, it is a passion of mine.
        I am going to direct my first question to Mr. Sullivan, and
    I understand that you did not get through all your written
    testimony but I did read your written testimony and I got
    excited when I saw a couple things that you mentioned in there.
    You referenced to Ohio's Common Sense Initiative. Could you
    take a moment to kind of expand on that a little bit, please?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you, Congressman. It is always good to
    hear that a member of Congress gets excited when they read a
    testimony. So thank you for that first.
        What you were referencing was in the statement talking
    about one of our Small Business Council members, Michael Canty
    in Ohio, and some of his experience with red tape, both
    positive and negative. I will start with the negative, and that
    is something that this Committee is more familiar with than
    most, and that is that any state, local, or Federal mandate is
    going to impact a small business more than a larger business.
    And there are studies that document this, but it just makes
    sense. I mean, I think we are familiar with husbands and wives
    at the kitchen table late at night in early April trying to get
    all of the materials together before they go and see their CPA.
    It just takes more time and time is money compared to a larger
    business that has an accounting department.
        So the negative that Michael Canty describes is just really
    the overwhelming burden of red tape. The positive is that there
    are state initiatives, like the Common Sense Initiative, and
    Federal, like the Regulatory Flexibility Act, that their basic
    premise is (a) one size mandates do not work when it comes to
    small business, and (b) more importantly, that when you involve
    a small business in the development of regulatory policy you
    end up with a great two-for. One, you get a regulatory policy
    that is sensitive to how it impacts small business, and two,
    you actually get buy-in from the small business community about
    what the end product is. And that is really the basic tenet of
    both the Regulatory Flexibility Act and the Common Sense
    Initiative that was done in Ohio. And this is, quite frankly, a
    model that has been followed by many states.
        Mr. BALDERSON. I was proud to cosponsor that piece of
    legislation back in 2009, and I can sit here and tell you that
    the new administration in Ohio is moving forward and we are
    going to make that initiative better. So I look forward to
    working with you.
        I want to talk about the national level and how we can make
    that even better. And you spoke about that. But I look forward
    to discussing it with you in the future.
        I yield back, Madam Chair.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back, and now I
    recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Veasey, for 5 minutes.
        Mr. VEASEY. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        I wanted to ask Ms. Parsons if she wanted to continue to
    expand on her thoughts on the Green New Deal. It sounds like
    you had more that you wanted to say, and I wanted to see if you
    wanted to expand on that. I think that most of us know right
    now that it is not anything concrete and solid. There have been
    some proposals. I believe I have heard the words ``more
    aspirational.'' And so maybe a work in progress. Do you want to
    just kind of expand on what you wanted to say?
        Ms. PARSONS. Yes, thank you. I do.
        As a mother of three kids, climate as obviously a huge
    worry. To have your children--I have got a ninth grader who is
    14, seventh grader who is 12, and a third grader who is 9--they
    are very cognizant of what the future brings. And living in
    Oregon, our climate is going to change. And it will change the
    nature of what it means to live and work in Oregon. We are a
    state that has been dependent on natural resources, wood
    products, trees. Our entire ecosystem will change. And we are
    already planning in Oregon for what it looks like when you no
    longer have evergreen forests. When there is no longer snow in
    most of Oregon. This is the Northwest, so it is an impact that
    is very frightening to the generation of our kids who are
    cognizant. Even my third grader understands what this will
    mean. But for the economy of a state like Oregon, and many
    other states. I mean, I cannot speak to what it is going to do
    in Texas, for instance, although I suspect many Texans will be
    moving up north, but it will impact how people do business and
    traditional businesses in manufacturing, in logging because our
    climate will affect our natural resources. And I think it is
    very important to listen to scientists and develop policies
    that are fact-based.
        Mr. VEASEY. I also wanted to ask Mr.--say your last name
    again?
        Mr. CONKLIN. Conklin.
        Mr. VEASEY. I am sorry. I am having a hard time seeing it
    from here. Oh, thank you very much.
        I wanted to ask you, I think that you had spoken about
    trades earlier and about how there are young people that just
    are not being directed in that area, and they are not being--
    they do not know about those opportunities, and for whatever
    reason they are not taking advantage of them. One of the areas
    that have been talked about on this particular subject a lot is
    Germany. And there are two things that occur in Germany that
    are not happening here anymore. There is not as much of a
    stigma attached to blue collar jobs in Germany. One of those
    reasons is because the ratio between what white collar workers
    and what blue collar makers make in Germany, there is much less
    of a discrepancy than there is here in the United States. And
    so there is less stigma attached to those jobs.
        Another issue that I would like for you to touch on,
    including the one that I just mentioned, is also labor unions.
    As you know, the quality and income inequality in this income
    has slipped dramatically with the demise of certain labor
    unions in this country. Of course, everybody knows the story
    about Henry Ford and when productivity went up it was also good
    for the worker. We have seen a decline here in that area with
    the decline of organized labor. Of course, in Germany, and the
    business community and the labor forces, it is my understanding
    they do go at it pretty hard in Germany, but at the end of the
    day, it is a result that has led to better outcomes and quality
    of life for the citizens there. Can you touch on that, please?
        Mr. CONKLIN. Well, I cannot speak with great expertise
    about Germany. I think the contribution that unions made
    through history to the improvement for workers on the shop
    floor has outlasted the strength of their influence in our
    current economy, which on the one hand speaks to the importance
    of that contribution, and on the other hand it speaks to the
    reality of the decline of unions, particularly in the trades,
    and how they interact with small businesses. When we started,
    we were a nonunion shop, and the union shops went out of their
    way to make it as difficult for us as they could. But they did
    not prevail. In fact, over the course of the time that we have
    been in business we have watched the trade unions' portion of
    the work that is done shrink to the point where there just is
    not a whole lot of noncommercial, small scale, high value work
    being done by union workers.
        But I think the larger question is, and it speaks to the
    culture we are in now, we are just not encouraging kids to
    pursue the trades. My employees make $60,000 to $70,000 a year.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman's time has expired.
        Now, I recognize the gentleman from Oklahoma, Mr. Hern,
    Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Tax, and
    Capital Access for 5 minutes.
        Mr. HERN. Thank each of you for being here today. It is
    always good to be on this Committee having been a small
    businessman for 34 years, so it is exciting.
        One of the things I have learned about being up here is not
    every small businessperson thinks the same way and certainly
    the three of you have some different ideologies that I would
    not prescribe to.
        I have had the blessings of starting and growing and sold
    many businesses over the last 34 years, since 1985, starting
    out as a one person shop writing software and growing into
    banking and manufacturing, skilled labor. And Mr. Conklin, you
    are so right. We undervalue the value of skilled labor today
    and technology and welding, C&C machinery, woodworking
    materials. Also, I have been blessed to be involved on the
    banking side, so I have seen the other side of what has been
    impacted in community banks over the last 10 years through most
    recently Dodd-Frank, but just a consolidation of community
    banks where most lending occurs for small business men and
    women. Must of the testimony that I have heard over the last
    couple hearings, I have never heard of the folks offering the
    lending and I probably created more small businesses as an
    individual than anyone. So one of my goals is to figure out how
    we put the resources of where capital can be accessed into a
    reserve or a place where you can find it. So it is interesting.
        But I would really, you know, if you look at the optimism
    in 2016, I think my goal is to keep that optimism going. And I
    think the optimism from small businesses as a whole, as
    identified by the NFIB, is that the government get out of the
    way of small businesses, not get in the way. So that would be
    my goal as we go forward.
        But I want to talk just real briefly from each of certainly
    the three of you all on this end about what you think we could
    do differently as far as access to capital. Briefly if you
    could because I have got like an hour's worth of questions.
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Thank you, Congressman. We have a couple of
    suggestions in our policy agenda. One is to, I mean, we are
    going for broke here, quadrupling the SBA lending guarantees
    from $250 million to $100 billion a year, to reduce the loan
    guarantee percentages. And to expand the CDFI budget, the
    Community Development Financial Institutions are a tremendous
    source of capital for small businesses across the country but
    they only represent about 1 to 2 percent of all small business
    lending. So we have a bunch of other stuff in our policy
    agenda.
        Mr. HERN. Sure.
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. But those are a few things.
        Mr. HERN. Those are great.
        Ms. Parsons?
        Ms. PARSONS. Yeah. I want to talk about a program that I
    think is fairly innovative in the State of Oregon. I was
    appointed by Governor Kate Brown onto the Oregon Growth Board.
    It is a board that uses a very small percentage of lottery
    money and invests in funds that invest in Oregon businesses
    with a particular focus on equity, diversity, and inclusion.
    And we are really looking at social impact investing. Any
    returns from those investments go straight into the Oregon
    State School Education General Fund, and so it is an experiment
    to say can we take some lottery money and do some innovative,
    social impact investing that puts emphasis on investing in
    funds that help Oregon entrepreneurs and particularly the
    equity diversity party.
        Mr. HERN. If my staff could get that information because we
    have a particular interest in that as well.
        Ms. PARSONS. Great.
        Mr. HERN. Mr. Conklin?
        Mr. CONKLIN. In 1980, when my wife and I had hired I think
    at that point two employees and we were doing more work for a
    construction company across the street and was offering us
    great opportunities to work for some major corporations that
    surround New Jersey, we needed to borrow $5,000 for some
    equipment. It just was not available. Nobody was interested in
    loaning it to us. I think ultimately we leased some equipment
    at a relatively high rate of interest and we got what we needed
    in the most expensive way. And, we got the sense that we were
    pretty much on our own. We are going to have to figure this
    stuff out for ourselves and find the money where we could and
    pay more for it. And that is exactly what happened.
        So when we were talking about how women and----
        Mr. HERN. Mr. Conklin, I am so sorry. We are running out of
    time.
        Mr. CONKLIN. Yeah.
        Mr. HERN. But I would love to get your thoughts.
        I just want to close out with this. I know that when you
    are creating jobs and you are in the business world and you
    have tons of risk, I just want to share with you from both
    perspectives what Dodd-Frank did to community banks. Now, I
    understand the big banks and why it was created, but to
    community banks where we get our resources it was devastating
    because it created a hurdle that you talked about a minute ago.
    Dodd-Frank introduced tons and tons of regulators into the
    system to ensure that there was no discrimination, but what
    they also put in there was a high hurdle to actually take
    loans, whether it was mortgage, expand the mortgage period from
    30 days to about 60 days, but also in a sense of what it did to
    folks who came in with a business plan and no personal wealth
    to create jobs.
        I could tell you a story how I started my first business,
    my true business of mowing lawns when a guy loaned me $100 at a
    bank on a passbook account without any credit. Those days are
    long gone but that is how businesses used to start. Today, to
    your point, you have to have a quarter million dollars to come
    in. If I had that I would not even start the business.
        So thank you all so much for your testimony.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman's time has expired.
        And now I recognize the gentlelady from Iowa, Ms.
    Finkenauer, Chairwoman of the Subcommittee on Rural
    Development, Agriculture, Trade, and Entrepreneurship, for 5
    minutes.
        Ms. FINKENAUER. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to
    our panel here today. It is great to hear the different
    perspectives and where you all come from.
        But this question is actually to Mr. Arensmeyer, who I had
    the opportunity to see yesterday and had the pleasure of
    getting to speak at the Rural Small Business briefing. I know
    you organized yesterday with the Co-Chairs of the Congressional
    Rural Caucus as well. So thank you for that opportunity, and
    thank you for your testimony today.
        I know you talked about how rural entrepreneurs start
    businesses at higher rates, but also how there are a host of
    challenges facing rural businesses and that the unemployment
    rate is still very high in rural areas. I know one of the
    challenges for rural businesses and farmers is the trade war
    started on Twitter, but also, on top of that we have got low
    broadband deployment and transportation and infrastructure
    issues, along with young people leaving rural America. Or not
    coming back home after they have left to go to college. And I
    look forward to getting to tackle some of those issues, in
    particular on the Rural Development, Agriculture, Trade, and
    Entrepreneurship Subcommittee. But from the small business
    majority's view, what should we be doing to ensure our farmers
    and our rural employees and small businesses can thrive? Were
    there any recommendations? I know, I really appreciate again
    getting to speak yesterday, but also seeing all the young folks
    in that room, and I imagine you all had some very interesting
    discussions and interesting ideas that came out of that. And I
    am wondering if you would be able to share any of that with us
    today about how best we can support rural businesses and our
    farmers.
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Thank you, Congresswoman. And thank you
    very much for joining us yesterday at the release of our rural
    report. And your comments were very enlightening.
        You have identified some of the issues. I mean, broadband
    is a huge issue. One in four rural entrepreneurs say they do
    not have access to broadband. I do not know if you were still
    around, but one of the people on the panel, one of the New
    Mexico Native American business owners literally talked about
    how she has a home-based business and talked about how she had
    to worry about whether her kids were playing videogames,
    whether her husband was doing work online for her to be able to
    actually get on, and she has a floral business, and make
    orders. So it was kind of an interesting, although not very
    happy story. So broadband is key.
        You know, access to resources is absolutely key. I know I
    sound like a broken record here, but just because of distance,
    a need. Infrastructure is huge. I am glad Tom has talked a
    little bit about that. Not only do small businesses depend on
    infrastructure more than most businesses on sort of a per
    capita basis but there are actually jobs available for small
    businesses getting involved and improving infrastructure. So
    you know, again, I talked about the Rural Microentrepreneurship
    Assistance Program. There are programs out there, but we need
    to do more. And, you know, there is a whole list of suggestions
    in our report. I would be happy to share that with the
    Committee.
        Ms. FINKENAUER. Great, thank you.
        Mr. Sullivan, I wanted to talk to you as well because I
    know in my district we have really active chambers in some of
    our larger towns, and also some in our smaller towns as well.
    Has the U.S. Chamber put together, or could you tell me, you
    know, what could we be doing better working with some of the
    smaller chambers in some of the smaller towns to attract more
    people, especially young people back to the area, fill up those
    Main Streets, and anything that you guys have suggestions for
    or things like that.
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Well, thank you, Congresswoman.
        First of all, let me compliment you on one of the bills
    that you worked on and this Committee passed. I see that you
    sponsored H.R. 246, which was the----
        Ms. FINKENAUER. The long name. Yeah.
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Stimulating Innovation through Procurement
    Act. It is really another example of the bipartisan nature of
    this Committee and how important it is to get that type of
    movement behind bills because then they can get through the
    House and hopefully through the Senate.
        Ms. FINKENAUER. Knock on wood.
        Mr. SULLIVAN. You mentioned local and smaller chambers of
    commerce. Actually, the best part of my job is getting out of
    Washington, D.C., and visiting with these incredible local
    chambers. How do you get more people to them? I do not know
    other than trying to breathe in the same type of optimism that
    this Committee has about entrepreneurship and how government is
    there to help them and not to get in their way. And we are
    trying to do that. But I think your question brings a whole set
    of opportunities for us to work together to kind of ignite that
    type of enthusiasm for local chamber membership.
        Ms. FINKENAUER. Absolutely. I look forward to having those
    conversations. And thank you again to all of you for being
    here. And I yield back.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back.
        And now I recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Spano,
    for 5 minutes.
        Mr. SPANO. Thank you so much, Madam Chair, and thank you
    all for being here this morning. I just have a few questions.
        My first question is to Ms. Parsons. My experience as a
    small business owner in the district that I represented for
    several years before I was even involved in public office or
    publicly policy was I was on the chamber board, two chamber
    boards involved in numerous local networking organizations to
    try and keep my business going and growing. And it was not
    until I was elected to office that I first heard about the
    Small Business Development Corporation. So my concern is that,
    and maybe we are doing a better job of that now. I hope so. But
    at that point in time there just was not enough dissemination
    by small business development. And look, they have done a great
    job. I do not mean to disrespect them in any way, but what can
    we do specifically to get the word out in order for it to
    filter down to people on the frontlines out there trying to
    build a small business that will actually allow them to access
    opportunities?
        Ms. PARSONS. Yeah, thank you. That is a great question. And
    my business has worked with SBDCs for over 25 years. We work
    very closely. We have donated millions of dollars of software
    to SBDCs all around the country because we really believe in
    entrepreneurship. But you are right. People do not know about
    it. They call our business and ask for help, and that is not
    what we do. We sell them software and tools, and we always
    recommend, and in fact, on our website, free and public, we
    have an entire directory where people can find their local
    SBDC. And it is a content site that attracts 2 million unique
    visitors. We need more businesses like mine to help and aid in
    this effort because small business development centers have
    free support and free help, and yet the community does not know
    about them. We need community colleges who often house SBDCs to
    also engage in those marketing efforts and to do more to pair
    SBDCs with entrepreneurship classes that they are giving to
    their local communities so that people know that there is free
    support and expertise to help them navigate access to capital.
        Mr. SPANO. Thank you. Thank you so much.
        My next question is for Mr. Sullivan. I had a meeting with
    some constituents, small business owners just last week in my
    office, and they were just frustrated by their inability to
    hire people. They could not find truck drivers, other kind of
    nonskilled labor positions. And they are not in the ag
    business. Right? So the season guest worker program will not
    help them.
        My question is should we open up or expand our guest worker
    program, right, so that our small businesses will have the
    access to the labor that they need?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Congressman, thank you for the question.
        The simple answer is yes. Our immigration system is
    completely broken and small businesses are hurting because of
    it. I tried to detail out in my written statement the story of
    Dick Cardew. He produces hay and folks unfortunately then
    categorize that as kind of the need for seasonal workers. Well,
    he is producing hay in Arizona. It is a yearlong season, and he
    needs workers. And there are hundreds of other examples like
    this. And so we are with you and we want to work with you to
    pass comprehensive immigration reform through Congress.
        Mr. SPANO. Thank you. I yield back, Chair.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
        I now recognize the gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Schneider.
        Mr. SCHNEIDER. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. And
    I want to thank you and the Ranking Member for hosting this
    hearing. I want to thank the witnesses for being here today and
    sharing your experiences.
        This is a critically important issue as others have already
    stated. Small business is the engine that grows our economy. It
    creates the majority of the new jobs. It is where the majority
    of Americans find their work. And if we are going to strengthen
    our communities, whether it is urban communities or communities
    in rural, small business is going to be key to that.
        And when I think about business, and I have said this for
    years, there are four key pillars that business success depends
    on. One we cannot really help with. You guys have to come up
    with your own business idea. That is up to you and that model,
    that paradigm, whatever buzzword you want to use is what is
    going to help propel you to success.
        But where we can make a difference is improving access to
    talent, making sure you have the people you need. Improving
    access to capital. Providing a stable business environment
    which is a stable government that does not threaten shutdown on
    a continuous basis. It is eliminating obstacles and hurdles. It
    is finding ways to reduce complexity, and it is looking for
    ways to find levers to amplify or multiply the work that you
    are doing.
        So my general question, and I will open this up to the
    entire panel is if you can think of three of the things that
    you are concerned about, from health care, infrastructure,
    debt, student loan debt as a piece of it, and one thing that
    would make a difference that we can do that will propel small
    business forward in the country. What would you recommend to
    this Committee? And we will start at the end.
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Congressman, I want to just address a
    couple issues we have not talked about that much here. I mean,
    there is no one silver bullet but a huge issue is health care.
    And health care is something that has been a tremendous concern
    for small businesses for years. As I detail in my testimony,
    the ACA has actually created tremendous opportunities for
    business owners, business employees, small business employees,
    and self-employed entrepreneurs to access health care. As I
    said, over half of the participants in the marketplace fall
    into those categories. We absolutely have to shore up, we have
    to reduce the market risk. I talked about some of the issues
    there of eliminating some of these short-term plans and
    association business plans that are sort of balkanizing the
    market and leaving the rest of the market much more expensive
    and less stable. There is a functioning small business market
    now and it has gone up. The increases in the market have gone
    up half of what they were going up before the ACA. So there is
    no reason to start creating new markets out there. We should
    support the markets that exist. We obviously have to get
    control over drug prices and other out-of-network prices. I
    just want to----
        Mr. SCHNEIDER. I do not mean to cut you off but we are
    limited in time.
        Ms. Parsons, if you could opine.
        Ms. PARSONS. Yeah, there are so many things that I would
    like to say but I will keep it to urging you to support the
    Family Act, which will provide paid leave for all small
    businesses. One of the things that I think people do not
    necessarily understand is one of the biggest problems small
    businesses have, and I am not talking about the SBA definition
    of 500 employees or less, I am talking about micro small
    businesses, 20 employees or less, is the infrastructure,
    resources, and tools to understand how to do better financial
    analysis which big businesses have. They have analysts and
    planners and they can understand how to structure their
    financials and provide paid leave. The economics are there.
    Paid leave will return to the small businesses because they
    will retain their workers. People have to choose right now from
    do I take care of my sick child or do I keep my job? And at the
    end of the day you are not going to make that choice. You are
    going to take care of your sick child. So----
        Mr. SCHNEIDER. All right. Thank you. I am sorry to cut you
    off.
        Mr. Conklin?
        Mr. CONKLIN. I would say both my predecessors covered some
    of the important issues so I will go back to the Green New
    Deal.
        We have a 13,600 square foot flat roof in a neighborhood of
    buildings that are similarly structured. It is absurd to me
    that they are not all covered with solar panels. We could
    produce more energy off our roof than we consume, and we
    consume quite a bit of energy. We need to have imaginative
    programs put in place very quickly that make it affordable for
    companies like mine to actually do that work. And sometimes
    that means the company has to put a new roof on the roof before
    it can put the solar panels on the roof. We need to be really
    imaginative about this and we really need to hit it hard.
        Mr. SCHNEIDER. Thank you.
        And if I can indulge one last, Mr. Sullivan, last word.
        Mr. SULLIVAN. I will try to be really quick.
        I think the biggest thing that you can do is really build
    on the success of this Committee going forward. Work with your
    colleagues in the Education and Labor Committee and celebrate
    the examples that are going on right now. I mention the Tapani
    sisters in Minnesota, for instance. Celebrate what is working
    to solve this workforce challenge and celebrate it loud and
    proud through your work with those Committees so that you can
    inspire others to follow in their footsteps.
        Mr. SCHNEIDER. Thank you. And I will echo that. And I think
    we need policy that is strong, confident, secure that moves us
    to the future that addresses our challenges, whether it is
    environment, health care, education, infrastructure, and small
    business can lead the way.
        And with that I am happy to yield back.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
        And now I recognize the gentleman from Tennessee, Mr.
    Burchett, for 5 minutes.
        Mr. BORCHER. Thank you, Chairlady and Ranking Member.
        I had a couple of questions, and I apologize if they have
    been asked before. If they have, you all just say they have
    been asked before and I will go back and watch the tape.
        But ultimately, where do you all find that government is
    still getting in the way of small business? I hear this a lot
    when I am talking to folks. And how can this Committee work to
    solve that problem?
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Congressman, you know, I think there is not
    sort of one big answer to that question. There are many cases
    where government is needed to help small business. We talked
    about some of those in terms of resources, in terms of
    obviously, you know, you have heard about the FAMILY Act, about
    healthcare needs, about access to capital. On the other hand,
    there are times when government, maybe we should look at
    regulations and we should figure out how to streamline them.
    When we have done polling, we found that fewer than 20 percent
    of small businesses ranked regulatory problems at the top of
    their list. And in fact, the biggest regulatory problems that
    exist are more at the state and local level, particularly the
    lower level. There is not a huge human cry from the businesses
    that we deal with about Federal regulations. So again, I think
    we support the work of the SBA's Office of Advocacy, certain
    laws, the SBREFA process. We are not sure we need another sort
    of comprehensive process on top of that, and we do need to look
    at, and you all need to and the regulatory agencies need to
    look at each regulation, what it is trying to do, what the cost
    benefit is, and not sort of have a global sort of response to
    that.
        Mr. BORCHER. The thing I always found in my time in the
    legislature in Tennessee and as mayor, a lot of the time
    somebody was trying to fix a problem that did not exist and it
    is always easy to put another nickel on a can of beer until all
    your beer drinkers call you and then you know you have got a
    real problem.
        Did anybody else want to take a shot at that one? Chamber?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Yes, Congressman, I am amazed at the
    government's inability to reward those small business owners
    who are trying desperately to keep up with local, state,
    regional, and Federal requirements. And I think the time has
    come for us to admit that and for Congress to pass a
    comprehensive law that gives these folk a pass. As long as no
    one is hurt or imminently in danger, let us start rewarding
    these small business owners for trying to get it right instead
    of looking to nickel and dime them and penalize them. And they
    are the ones who are trying the hardest to comply with all the
    regulatory mandates.
        Mr. BORCHER. I noticed too the little cafeteria where I eat
    at frequently, Wright's Cafeteria, and my predecessor still
    eats there quite a lot, too, that when the state came in and
    said you all have to submit your tax forms on computers, that
    in fact was an unfunded mandate because David Wright, my good
    friend, he is tight as a tick and he did not want to have to go
    out and buy a computer. And so it was that way all over the
    state. There were a lot of problems that that solution that we
    were looking for created.
        And as new opportunities for small businesses a part of the
    growing economy, is there a skills gap for new types of
    industries? I assume there is. I assume that is a pretty common
    thing. Just a head nod will be sufficient. All right.
        Where do you all see the opportunities for innovation and
    helping train folks that are looking to join the work force? I
    see a lot in our inner city, hardworking black folks and our
    Hispanic community, they just seem to be almost left out of
    some of this stuff and to me it looks like we, you know, one
    size does not fit all. Do you all see that? Any response would
    be appropriate if you would like. Or just a head nod. I do not
    know, Chairlady, do we enter head nods as----
        Ms. PARSONS. I would love to tell you about a program in
    Oregon that is directly addressing by bringing school teachers
    into technology companies. It is called Elevate Lane County,
    and technology companies in Lane County, Oregon, are bringing
    school teachers in. We are volunteering to do this. We have
    them in a program for 3 weeks in the summer. They are paid by
    the Department of Labor to be there and they learn specific
    skills so that they can bring a specific computer science
    course to their high schools that September. So from a
    technology company perspective, it is fantastic because we
    often feel that government moves very slowly and this allows
    something to move very quickly. This summer will be the third
    summer. My company has helped train four teachers, but all
    together we have trained over 40 teachers. And the immediacy of
    being able to train teachers and then provide a computer
    science course and then take those students and bring them in
    as interns, in Lane County, Oregon, we have had six students
    graduate from college and get jobs in computer programming
    directly because of this program.
        Mr. BORCHER. Chairlady, I have gone over my time so I do
    not yield back any of my time. Thank you.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman's time has expired.
        And now I recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr.
    Delgado for 5 minutes.
        Mr. DELGADO. Thank you, Chairwoman. And thank all of you
    for your testimony.
        I am going to share a story from Otsego County. Last week I
    was at an event there and I met with owners of a small, family-
    owned farm that was started by two brothers and their wives.
    The family founded the farm in 2010 with a vision to create a
    vibrant food system in Upstate New York that is strengthened by
    a commitment to preserving the beauty of our natural lands and
    the human treatment of animals. They have worked hard to
    deliver grass-fed meat to their customers and have been
    successful enough to have customers in places such as Long
    Island, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey. However, making
    deliveries to their downstate and out-of-state customers has
    not been very easy. Members of the family take turns loading up
    their truck with fresh meat and driving up to 5 hours to meet
    their customers. The cost associated with growth, and in this
    case working with a distributor, has limited the ability of
    many small businesses to expand to their full potential. This
    family-owned business is one of many in my district that has
    great products to offer but faces challenges marketing those
    products to a broader market and meeting the costs associated
    with expansion.
        So Mr. Arensmeyer, my question for you is, in your
    testimony you highlighted some of the unique challenges that
    rural Businessowners often face. What actions should Congress
    take to ensure that existing Federal programs are meeting the
    demand from rural small businesses that are looking to expand
    and move their products into larger markets?
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Thank you, Congressman.
        That has become a huge part of our work, is making sure we
    are getting out with our entrepreneurship program across the
    country and letting people know about these programs. As I
    think was highlighted by one of your colleagues before, a lot
    of times these programs exist and people do not know about
    them. A gentleman who ran a small business and did not know
    about SBDCs until he got into the public policy world. We find
    that all the time. We find that there are things, SBA programs,
    SBDCs, Women's Business Centers, we need to do a better job of
    communicating those, and it is even more essential in rural
    areas because it is much harder sort of physically to get
    access to those so we need to use technology. We do a lot of
    work with webinars, as well as face-to-face seminars. So I
    would just say that there are Federal, state, and local
    programs and there are entities like SBDCs out there and we
    need to collectively do a better job of making sure small
    businesses know about those.
        Mr. DELGADO. Appreciate it.
        I will ask one other question for you, sir. You mentioned
    in your testimony, I am not sure if someone has already asked
    this, and if I missed it I apologize. You were talking about
    the different ways we could legislatively help small business
    owners, and you mentioned a buy-in to Medicare. I believe you
    referenced that.
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Yes.
        Mr. DELGADO. Could you speak to why you think a buy-in to
    Medicare would be helpful for small business owners?
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. You know, it creates another option. You
    already have a whole sort of Medicare system set up and
    certainly on a no-cost basis allowing people to buy in we think
    is a good thing. There are a lot of entrepreneurs that fall in
    the upper end of the subsidies where they phase out at 400
    percent of Federal poverty level, which is about a little over
    $50,000 for a single person, about $90,000 for a family of
    four. And they struggle sometimes to be able to cover that, to
    offer that coverage. So we think if there is another option to
    expand into Medicare, let us see how it goes. Maybe you allow
    everybody. Maybe you lower the age to 55 or 50. You know, I
    think, you know, it is no secret. There are all sorts of
    proposals out there around health care. We think the ACA was a
    huge step in the right direction. We still need to have the
    debate about how really to get to universal coverage and what
    is the way to do it, is to start to incrementally move in that
    direction. See what works, what does not work. And create some
    additional options for small businesses who might be struggling
    with existing subsidies.
        Mr. DELGADO. Thank you very much.
        I yield back my time.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back. And now we
    recognize Mr. Stauber from Minnesota for 5 minutes.
        Mr. STAUBER. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member
    Chabot for holding this hearing. And to the witnesses.
        I, too, am a small business owner. My brothers and I have
    owned a business for 28 years and there are ups and downs and
    struggles. And as my colleague from Oklahoma stated, there are
    some political differences here. I listened to them and the
    partisanship on some of your comments, I do not agree with
    them. But we are going to have a healthy discussion as we move
    forward.
        The small business in my mind, I want to tell you a story
    about what happened in Minnesota just recently. In Ely,
    Minnesota, we have small businesses. They are outfitters for
    canoeists and men and women who want to fish and recreate. The
    United States Forest Service implemented a system after holding
    hearings where these small businesses in Ely, Minnesota, said
    that is not the way we should do it. The U.S. Forest Service
    went ahead, took zero input, the system failed, to get permits
    into the boundary waters canoe area wilderness. Those small
    businesses are backed up now at least a month and some change.
    Every day they do not have customers is a day without money.
        And I look at the Federal Government to listen to our small
    businesses, listen to our chamber of commerces. They are the
    engines of our economy. If we lose our small businesses, every
    time we lose a small business down on Main Street USA or Main
    Street Minnesota, we lose an employer or employee, we lose
    money, we lose the economic drivers of our Main Street.
        And to my colleague sin Maine and Iowa, I fully agree with
    broadband. Bringing the ability to have broadband into rural
    American. We have talked about it for many years.
        And to Mr. Sullivan, from the Chamber's perspective, what
    do you think broadband would do--reliable, high-speed broadband
    to rural America--what do you think it would do to the
    developing small businesses and the entrepreneurship?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Congressman, thank you for the question.
        First of all, this is part of what we were talking about
    earlier about infrastructure investment. A simple answer is we
    believe that type of broadband deployment would have an
    enormous positive impact on small business. And we are working
    on finalizing a study that would help us put data and figures
    to that sense that we have. And I would be happy to share that
    with you. We expect that to be out in the middle of March.
        Mr. STAUBER. Thank you.
        And then can you reiterate to me what the Tax Cuts and Jobs
    Act did for small businesses in relation to your role as a
    member of the Chamber?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Sure. So when tax reform passed, we had a
    survey out in the field. This is part of our quarterly survey
    of a thousand small business owners. The survey firm is called
    IPSOS. They do this every quarter. But the tax reform passed
    right while that survey was out in the field and we saw the
    highest spike in optimism that we had ever seen. That same
    spike was recorded by the National Federation of Independent
    Business that has been doing a monthly confidence survey, a lot
    longer than we have been doing our quarterly index. So that was
    the immediate.
        Then what we saw, really, which was what the intention of
    the tax cuts were, and that was to put stimulus immediately
    back into the economy. And so we saw examples like a landscaper
    in Jacksonville, Florida, buying a new landscaping truck.
        I grew up just outside of Boston. We had a bakery in
    Braintree, Massachusetts who bought a new oven specifically
    from the savings from tax cuts. And I had mentioned earlier, we
    have been trying to track this on a map, and we have hundreds
    of examples of small business owners that not only were
    grateful but they took those tax cuts and they reinvested them
    into their businesses. And that means hiring new employees.
    That means providing greater benefits, greater training, and
    also buying new equipment, which is basically a double impact
    because they are generally buying it from other small
    businesses.
        Mr. STAUBER. Thank you for that comprehensive answer.
        I want to end, Madam Chair, by saying I really think it is
    our role on this Committee to facilitate a business environment
    that allows small businesses to succeed and flourish, and I
    think far too long there have been rules and regulations put
    forth that stymie, stop, or do not allow an individual to want
    to pursue small businesses.
        And I see my time is up. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
        And now we recognize the gentlelady from Pennsylvania, Ms.
    Houlahan for 5 minutes.
        Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
        My name is Chrissy Houlahan. I am a freshman. I have only
    been here just about 35 days but I have been a serial
    entrepreneur in Pennsylvania, built a number of different
    companies in the for-profit and non-profit space focused on
    basketball apparel and manufacturing, all the way to early
    childhood literacy, all the way to corporate social
    responsibility. So fundamentally, I consider myself to be an
    entrepreneur and very much about elevating small business
    people.
        My questions have to do with the Tax Cut and Jobs Act, and
    specifically I would like to dig in a little bit on the data
    that you, Mr. Sullivan, shared about your surveys. What I am
    interest in, because I am also an engineer, is sort of the
    inverse of your offering. You offered that 600-plus businesses
    said that they initially had positive reaction or experiences
    because of this tax cut. Were there several hundred or any that
    responded in the negative, or did you ask them?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman.
        So first of all, they are two separate things. First, the
    survey that we talked about is part of a quarterly index, and
    this index does what most indexes do. It asks small business
    owners in a random sample on a quarterly basis how did you do,
    how are you doing, and how do you think you are doing? And in
    that we saw an enormous spike.
        Ms. HOULAHAN. Great. But I am asking about those 600 that
    you offered for the record that had specific----
        Mr. SULLIVAN. That is the second part.
        Ms. HOULAHAN. Okay.
        Mr. SULLIVAN. I said there were two parts to it. So first
    is the survey. The second part are these small business owners.
    We tracked newspaper reports and others who came to us and said
    we would like to publicize our reinvestment. But no, we did not
    ask small business owners, did you experience a negative impact
    from taxes? No, we did not.
        Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you. And my next question has to do
    with, of those 600 who responded, you mentioned that you had
    the geography of them, can you, if you are able to, talk into
    California, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, those states
    that are the state and local tax states that may have not
    necessarily been as positively affected? Could you on a heat
    map identify where those 600 were?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. We actually do have a heat map up online. It
    is uschamber.com/tax-reform.
        Ms. HOULAHAN. Perfect.
        Mr. SULLIVAN. And I am happy to get you the state-by-state
    data following this hearing.
        Ms. HOULAHAN. That is perfect.
        And my final question has to do with I was, and still am,
    that person who sits at the table with my husband doing taxes.
    Between us we have several degrees and have a very hard time
    getting through it. And I know that businesses sometimes have
    different fiscal years than an April reporting timeframe. But
    have you had the opportunity to ask the question again of those
    business owners, those small business owners after the first
    tax cycle that they have gone through if they are still as
    enthusiastic about the Tax Act?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. So we are right in the middle of that cycle,
    and I am glad that you raised that because taxes have always
    been complex, and whenever there is a change to the Tax Code it
    becomes more complex. We reached out to a lot of CPAs. We
    actually found that the local chambers and CPAs who were
    leaders in those local chambers had the best sense of how their
    clients, who are also small business owners, were doing. We
    have heard mixed reactions and we are really anxious in this
    tax season, which is a month and a half away from us, on seeing
    the data coming back. We are optimistic. We saw positive
    reviews over the past year but this tax season I think will
    give us a lot of valuable data on what we need to do even more
    to reduce tax burden to help small businesses grow.
        Ms. HOULAHAN. I am going to be interested in it, too,
    because I think that it will be very telling as we come through
    one cycle of this to see if really people remain as enthused as
    they were initially.
        And in my last minute of questioning, if you do not mind,
    Mr. Conklin, I know that your testimony had something to do as
    well with the inverse, which was that you would like to see the
    Tax Cut and Jobs Act, in some cases I believe your testimony
    said repealed. And I just would like your comments and
    perspective on that.
        Thank you so much, Mr. Sullivan, for your testimony.
        Mr. CONKLIN. Yeah. First, it had no impact on us, positive
    or negative. It was neutral. And that came straight from my
    accountant. I cannot give you the specifics or the details.
        My point is when we give these tax breaks to large
    corporations and to the very wealthy, and I work for the
    wealthiest people in the world and that is not hyperbole. We
    are depriving the community where I work of the necessary
    revenues to maintain the roads, to rebuild the tunnel under the
    Hudson River that when it finally fails and collapses will be a
    national disaster and will put 800,000 cars on the roads of New
    York, New Jersey, and Long Island, and create one of the
    biggest log jams that has ever occurred in commerce.
        So going back to a question that was asked earlier about
    delivering goods and services, yeah, we can create some real
    problems by starving the government and starving our
    communities of necessary revenue to do the maintenance and
    upkeep.
        Ms. HOULAHAN. Thank you very much for all of your testimony
    and for coming here today.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady's time has expired.
        And now we recognize Ms. Davids from Kansas for 5 minutes.
        Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you, Chairwoman.
        Well, I am excited to hear and read about all the
    priorities, and thank you to you all for taking the time to put
    together your testimony.
        Like so many of the folks who have already spoken, and this
    is a great segue, Mr. Conklin, because I sit on the
    Transportation and Infrastructure Committee as well, and there
    certainly are a lot of intersections, pun intended, to the
    points that you all are making about how small business can be
    buttressed, supported, and see an increase if we are properly
    investing in our infrastructure. And you know, I mean, in
    Kansas, we are actually coming off of the Brown Bag Tax
    Experiment and have seen a reduction in revenue, so I
    appreciate your comments, Mr. Conklin.
        We are in the middle of a new administration. Laura Kelly
    came out almost immediately, our new governor, talking about
    the need to invest in our infrastructure, and I was
    particularly excited to be on this board because the Kansas
    City metro area, the district that I am in, the Third District
    in Kansas, particularly, we have entrepreneurship baked into
    the DNA of the place that we are in. We have got great
    organizations like the Kauffman Foundation, which supports a
    lot of initiatives that you all have been talking about. And
    Kansas has 13 SBDCs, Small Business Development Centers, and
    Ms. Parsons, I was really excited to hear you talking about
    Johnson County Community College--I am going to mention them--
    about the role that community colleges can play in highlighting
    and elevating SBDCs. But also, Mr. Conklin, it goes to some of
    what you were talking about, about the technical trades.
    Johnson County Community College and Kansas City, Kansas
    Community College were just here visiting with me, telling me
    about those exact programs. So I want you to know it is not
    falling on deaf ears.
        But Mr. Sullivan, I would like to ask you a question that
    touches on the infrastructure piece, which is can you talk a
    little bit about, in your testimony I know that you mentioned
    that you all just had, you know, an extensive set of meetings.
    The infrastructure portion was kind of the shortest section in
    your testimony but I think it might be because you all were
    just having this meeting. Could you talk to us a little bit
    about the areas that infrastructure can play a pivotal role in
    small business?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you, Congresswoman. I apologize for
    giving short thrift. I have with me the 35-page booklet of U.S.
    Chamber priorities.
        Ms. DAVIDS. I thought there might be something.
        Mr. SULLIVAN. I had to cut somewhere.
        The conference that I referenced last week was the U.S.
    Chamber's kind of kickoff to what we see as a huge push to get
    infrastructure legislature moving. And I do not mean to pass
    the baton back to you, but we are convinced that if legislative
    text is not moving before the summer, then we are going to be
    in a lot of trouble. So that is kind of the setting that came
    out of last week's conference. And it was encouraging to hear
    from your colleague that our infrastructure team is up here on
    Capitol Hill meeting with you all and trying to map out some of
    the details.
        As far as small business goes, I had mentioned earlier that
    we see really a two-part benefit when it comes to
    infrastructure investment. The first is that it makes it easier
    for the small business owners to get to their jobs and to get
    new jobs. I call it eliminating the hassle factor that is so
    familiar to anyone who has to commute a long way, and then just
    think of that times 100 when you are trying to actually do
    business on those same roads and bridges.
        The second are the small business owners who actually as
    their business do public works projects. We believe that they
    will receive an enormous benefit from jobs and work when
    infrastructure investment becomes a legislative reality in this
    Congress. And again, I do want to emphasize the positive here
    and that is the bipartisan nature of support for infrastructure
    reform. So to the extent that we can follow up with your office
    after this hearing, we are all in, we are all ears, and we want
    to work with you to make it a reality.
        Ms. DAVIDS. Thank you. And I yield back the rest of my
    time.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentlelady yields back.
        I would like to go into a second round.
        Mr. Arensmeyer, I serve on the Financial Services Committee
    and I, too, am concerned about the fintech space as it relates
    to lending for small businesses. I know that you have done some
    research. In terms of rural areas, do you have any information,
    either anecdotally or factual based that tells you there are
    some concerns as it relates to transparency and online lending
    to small businesses?
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. Sure, Madame Chair. You know, there are two
    sides to lending. One is the lack of access. So that creates
    the market need for a greater number of products, and we agree
    you cannot solve the transparency alone and solve the problem.
    We have to deal with the access problem. So we start off in
    rural communities. They have less access to resources, less
    access to loans than other people. And so they are going to
    naturally be attracted to online alternative lenders,
    especially because they are online, so assuming they get
    broadband they are able to access them. And so the Borrowers'
    Bill of Rights that we put together that we think should be
    enshrined in legislation, and we took the first step to that in
    California this last year is, you know, there are six points--
    the right to transparent pricing and terms; the right to
    nonabusive products, meaning there is an expectation that the
    loan is going to get paid back out of business revenues, not by
    taking another loan or out of the person's personal pocket; the
    right to responsible underwriting; the right to fair treatment
    from brokers; the right to inclusive credit access; and the
    right to fair collections practices. These are nationwide
    concerns that we have and we really think that the Congress
    should address, particularly the Financial Services Committee.
    But they are particularly concerned in rural areas.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Thank you.
        Ms. Parsons, would you like to comment?
        Ms. PARSONS. Yeah, I would. My business serves millions of
    entrepreneurs, and I could make money all day long partnering
    with fintech who does not often seem concerned about the
    effects of the types of loans they are giving small businesses.
    Small businesses and entrepreneurs are sometimes in a position
    where they will take anything, much to the detriment of their
    own business, just the same way personal finance has needed
    regulations so that people do not bankrupt themselves. And I
    very much agree with we need to look at that. We need to give
    small business protection. No one can recover from a cash loan
    that is at a 40 percent interest rate, and it will put the
    business out of business.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Sure. Thank you.
        Mr. Sullivan, today's Wall Street Journal says, ``Small
    business sentiment sours.'' So it makes reference to small
    business optimism. And it says that it has declined according
    to figures from NFIB in January, and consumer confidence has
    declined as well for the third straight month of decline. Why
    do you think that is?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. I think that the dip in small business
    confidence that NFIB's monthly survey picked up has to do with
    the lack of certainty in the business environment. I think the
    government shutdown was a shock to the system. I compliment
    this Committee for having a hearing last week that brought that
    shock into reality about what a shutdown means to small
    business. We cannot have government not govern because it does
    affect small business confidence. And I think that is one
    reason.
        I would like to try to give a little bit more of a positive
    though. We did see a Gallup Poll 2 days ago that looks at
    consumers' attitudes towards personal finance. And what they
    found is that actually for the first time in 16 years, 69
    percent of Americans believe they will be better off
    financially at this time next year. So I am a ``glass half
    full'' type of guy. I take some optimism from that survey but I
    will admit, as you pointed out, that confidence has taken a
    dip. Hopefully, we will not have another shutdown and that we
    will continue to see confidence go back up.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. And it has nothing to do with the
    fact that maybe some small businesses now are focusing on the
    Tax Code and the tax cuts and finding out that some of those
    are temporary, and will not be made permanent for them?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. I think there have also been news accounts
    that echo what you had just said. I think my response is that
    we have a year of information from small business owners who
    have said that they have reinvested savings from tax cuts. And
    so I would much rather rely on that year of testimonials than 1
    week of discussion of whether or not folks are going to get as
    big of a tax refund a month and a half before taxes are due.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman Ranking Member will be
    recognized for 5 minutes.
        Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        I would just note the nonpermanence of those tax cuts were
    a result of the Senate rules, not because of anything the House
    did or wanted to do. We wanted to make them all permanent but
    they have got rules over there that they have to comply with.
    And as in the Bush tax cuts, ultimately, I think most people
    think that the tax cuts for individuals, et cetera, will be
    made permanent. It would be very unpopular not to do that but a
    lot of the statements out there about talking about the rich
    got it or the middle class did not or individuals did not get
    it are based upon assuming that the tax cuts are going to go
    away in 10 years for a lot of people which I cannot imagine
    that that would happen unless we have an extremely
    irresponsible Congress at that time. So I do not expect that,
    although Congress is certainly capable of being irresponsible
    at times.
        Let me, just one question, one final question, Mr.
    Sullivan. A number, some of our witnesses today have talked
    pretty glowingly about the ACA, the Affordable Care Act, or
    what some people refer to as the Unaffordable Care Act, or most
    people over time have referred to it as Obamacare, but that is
    what we are talking about here. So pretty glowingly about it.
    Now, none other than Bill Clinton famously said that it is,
    referring to Obamacare, said it is the craziest thing in the
    world. People's premiums have doubled and they are getting half
    the coverage. And you talked to, in your position at the
    Chamber and with the Small Business Council, I know you talk to
    a lot of small business folks from all over the country there.
    Has that been your experience relative to Obamacare? Have they
    been pretty big fans of it or have they had real concerns about
    it? Or what do you hear with all the small business folks you
    talk to?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you, Congressman, for the question.
    Reiterating my attitude of being a ``glass half full'' type of
    person, we actually hear very positive things about the
    availability of association health plans that are just being
    rolled out across the country. There was a study released 2
    weeks ago by a healthcare expert in Nashville, Kev Coleman. And
    he actually talks about the 28 association health plans that
    have been offered through state and local chambers of commerce,
    and also industry associations. And he actually paints a very
    positive picture of this.
        Mr. CHABOT. Not to interrupt you but I know I am. When you
    say association health plans, you are talking about small
    businesses getting together and negotiating with the insurance
    companies to keep the rates down; is that correct?
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Congressman, yes. There was a rule issued by
    the Department of Labor this summer that under the construct of
    the Affordable Care Act, and the pooling arrangements under the
    Affordable Care Act, the Secretary of Labor determined that
    those same types of poolings can be utilized for small
    businesses to join together for better buying power through
    association health plans and our local chambers of commerce
    have really jumped at the chance of offering these. And this
    study actually shows that a sharp rebuttal to some inaccuracies
    about noncoverage of preexisting conditions or skimpy plans, in
    fact, his analysis of these 28 plans showed that they were
    comprehensive and resulted in savings upwards of 20 percent. So
    there are 13 states who are allowing chambers of commerce to
    offer these, one of them being Ohio, and we are encouraged, and
    we hope that this is something that Congress looks at favorably
    and perhaps shines some light into really addressing a key
    issue. I think John Arensmeyer was right that health care is a
    huge issue for small business. I just take a ``glass half
    full'' view that these association health plans are part of the
    equation of solving that challenge.
        Mr. CHABOT. With the little time that I have left I would
    just note that that was one of the aspects that I know
    Republicans were very supportive of was association health
    plans, as well as allowing insurance companies to sell their
    products across state lines so that would increase the
    competition so that consumers, including small businesses,
    could get health care at lower rates.
        And finally, with the 5 seconds that I have got left here,
    to note that we were very much for making sure that preexisting
    condition coverage was there as well, so.
        And I yield back my time even though it has been exhausted.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Mr. Golden is recognized for 5
    minutes.
        Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate it. I know
    that we are bumping up against the end of this but I just
    wanted to follow up a little bit on my earlier questions. I
    want to thank the Chairwoman and the Ranking Member for having
    this hearing. I think it is a great opportunity to sit here and
    talk with small business owners. I want to thank every member
    of the panel for coming in and being a part of this as we look
    forward for what I hope is 2 years of really productive work on
    this Committee.
        But earlier, Mr. Sullivan, we talked a little bit about
    infrastructure. I know you have a lot of members. It is hard to
    prioritize and, you know, you are spread out across the entire
    country, but we cannot always do everything, particularly not
    at once. And I think it is important to push you a little bit
    on it.
        You know, back home when I was in the Maine State
    Legislature, the first thing I did when I got elected in 2014
    was do a small business tour and ask people, you know, what are
    your top priorities? Now, where I come from and the town that I
    represented, at that time they prioritized work force, then
    infrastructure and energy costs, and then they talked a little
    bit about taxes and regulation. It could be different, I know,
    in different areas in different parts of the country, but
    again, just circling back to infrastructure, for the entire
    panel, if you could just, a short answer, specific to rural
    areas and small businesses, if this Committee and the
    Subcommittee that I am going to be chairing, we are looking at
    infrastructure, what would be the area of infrastructure that
    you would prioritize particularly to help spur growth?
    Something like broadband. Is it investment in rail? Just pick
    one. There is no right or wrong answer here.
        Mr. SULLIVAN. Thank you, Congressman for the question.
        My quick answer is that whatever infrastructure bill
    Congress gets moving, which I hope it does, make absolutely
    certain that the user fees go to infrastructure.
        Mr. CONKLIN. I think we need to strengthen public
    transportation. I think in the concentrated areas, the nonrural
    areas, that are often the customers of rural areas, when we get
    jammed up, you get jammed up. Earlier we heard about a person
    who took 5 hours to get something delivered. We are 20 minutes
    from New York with no traffic and 2-1/2 or 3 hours from New
    York when there is traffic and there is always traffic. And one
    of the reasons there is traffic is because there are too many
    cars on the road. And one of the reasons there are too many
    cars on the road is because our public transportation system is
    collapsing. And so these extraneous effects of disinvestment
    and misguided investment have far-reaching effects and they do
    have a direct impact on our bottom line. So that is one of the
    things we really need to focus on.
        Mr. GOLDEN. Mr. Sullivan, you want to get the money to the
    projects. You are saying invest in public transportation
    including in rural areas.
        Ms. Parsons?
        Ms. PARSONS. I would really have to support broadband to
    rural communities. We are failing our rural communities. They
    are falling behind. We are not able to train workers and give
    them access to online education, online tools. The world is
    moving into, you know, technology is what is going to drive
    innovation and we cannot leave rural communities behind.
        Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you.
        Mr. ARENSMEYER. I agree with everything that has been said,
    particularly the broadband into rural areas. I think something
    this Committee has jurisdiction over is we need to make sure
    that when the infrastructure bill is implemented that the
    procurement is focused very much on small business, that the
    small business rules are followed, the women-owned business
    rules are followed. You know, that is a great source of growth
    for entrepreneurship in all of our communities and this
    Committee can really take the lead in making sure that those
    contracts are focused on small businesses, making sure that
    small businesses, and particularly women and minority-small
    businesses are at the center of that, and rural-owned small
    businesses in rural areas. So I am not sure. You know, there
    are a host of projects that need to happen, broadband, and then
    a lot of physical projects but we would like this Committee to
    make sure that they track the procurement on that.
        Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you. I yield back.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. The gentleman yields back.
        Mr. GOLDEN. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        Chairwoman VELAZQUEZ. Well, let me take this opportunity to
    thank all of you for being here today and helping us craft a
    small business priority going forward. Small businesses are
    critical to the success of our country, whether it is the small
    technology startups or advanced manufacturing, these firms
    generate tremendous economic activity and provide employment
    opportunities for our communities. As we move forward in this
    Congress it is critical that we listen to and prioritize their
    needs to ensure their future success.
        I would ask unanimous consent that members have 5
    legislative days to submit statements and supporting materials
    for the record.
        Without objection, so ordered.
        And if there is no further business to come before the
    Committee, we are adjourned. Thank you.
        [Whereupon, at 1:09 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

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