[Senate Hearing 115-746]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 115-746
BACK TO WORK: EMPOWERING ALABAMA'S
AGING WORKFORCE
=======================================================================
FIELD HEARING
BEFORE THE
SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA
__________
NOVEMBER 30, 2018
__________
Serial No. 115-23
Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
37-823 PDF WASHINGTON : 2020
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SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING
SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine, Chairman
ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania
JEFF FLAKE, Arizona BILL NELSON, Florida
TIM SCOTT, South Carolina KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York
THOM TILLIS, North Carolina RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
BOB CORKER, Tennessee JOE DONNELLY, Indiana
RICHARD BURR, North Carolina ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts
MARCO RUBIO, Florida CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
DEB FISCHER, Nebraska DOUG JONES, Alabama
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Kevin Kelley, Majority Staff Director
Kate Mevis, Minority Staff Director
CONTENTS
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Page
Opening Statement of Senator Doug Jones.......................... 1
APPENDIX
PANEL OF WITNESSES
Dr. Tamara Payne, Director of Career and Learning Services,
Jefferson State Community College, Birmingham, Alabama......... 3
Montina Dorsey-Collins, Back to Work 50+ Participant, Birmingham,
Alabama........................................................ 4
Lori Strauss, Manager of Workforce Programs, AARP Foundation,
Washington, DC................................................. 5
Sheila Baker, Director of Senior Community Service Employment
Programs, Middle Alabama Area Agency On Aging, Birmingham,
Alabama........................................................ 7
Doug Dean, Chief of Human Resources, Children's of Alabama,
Birmingham, Alabama............................................ 8
Prepared Witness Statements
Dr. Tamara Payne, Director of Career and Learning Services,
Jefferson State Community College, Birmingham, Alabama......... 24
Montina Dorsey-Collins, Back to Work 50+ Participant, Birmingham,
Alabama........................................................ 27
Lori Strauss, Manager of Workforce Programs, AARP Foundation,
Washington, DC................................................. 28
Sheila Baker, Director of Senior Community Service Employment
Programs, Middle Alabama Area Agency On Aging, Birmingham,
Alabama........................................................ 34
Doug Dean, Chief of Human Resources, Children's of Alabama,
Birmingham, Alabama............................................ 36
Additional Statements for the Record
Ramona Reach, Office Manager, Acton Road Pediatrics, LLC,
Birmingham, Alabama............................................ 38
BACK TO WORK: EMPOWERING ALABAMA'S AGING WORKFORCE
----------
FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 30, 2018
U.S. Senate,
Special Committee on Aging,
Birmingham, Alabama.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 1:27 p.m., at
Jefferson State Community College, Shelby Campus, 4600
Valleydale Road, Birmingham, Alabama, Hon. Doug Jones,
presiding.
Present: Senator Jones.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JONES
Senator Jones. All right. Good afternoon, everyone, and
welcome to this field hearing called ``Back to Work: Empowering
Alabama's Aging Workforce.''
I apologize for my voice. It is not because I have been
yelling at Senator McConnell and Senator Schumer, but it just
happens on occasion. So I am going to try to make sure I get
through all of this, with the statement and questions, but my
Deputy Legislative Director, Katie Campbell, who is on a phone
call out there, will be joining us shortly, so I will turn it
to her in case I just completely wear out.
Folks, this is a unique opportunity to bring the work of
the Senate Special Committee on Aging to Alabama. I want to
thank Chairwoman Susan Collins and Ranking Member Bob Casey and
their staff for helping facilitate this hearing. It has been a
privilege to serve on this Committee this year since taking
office in January, though I often tell folks that I was placed
on the Aging Committee not as a member but as an exhibit.
[Laughter.]
Senator Jones. I want to also thank our witnesses who are
here today. Each of you bring a unique perspective on the
workplace and employment issues facing older workers. I
appreciate your willingness to share your expertise and
insights with us today. Your input will be valuable as this
Committee works to serve our seniors.
Both in Alabama and across the country, our population is
aging rapidly. Our labor force is aging as well. In 2006,
workers ages 55 and over represented just 16 percent of
American workers. In 2016, that number had grown to 22 percent,
and by 2026, older workers will account for nearly one-quarter
of the U.S. labor force.
Employment has many benefits for older workers, including
improved health, cognition, and overall well-being. It also has
clear financial benefits. In addition to providing workers with
a steady source of income, continuing to work can improve
retirement security. Additional working years can provide
individuals with more time to save and with increased Social
Security benefits when they do retire.
Unfortunately, many older Americans who would like to work
or continue working are limited in their ability to do so.
Unemployment disproportionately affects older adults. Across
the country more than three million older adults are searching
for full-time work. Many more find themselves on a plateau in
their current job and face challenges finding a better job
elsewhere.
In addition to facing age discrimination and the difficulty
of managing health problems, many older adults who are looking
for work find they need to update their professional skills or
learn new ones. Older workers who face these challenges tend to
experience extended periods of unemployment and may leave the
labor force altogether.
Despite these challenges, there are efforts at the local,
state, and federal level to help seniors maintain and achieve
fulfilling careers. Federal programs like the Senior Community
Employment Service Program and local initiatives like Back to
Work 50+ Program have helped to provide thousands of older
workers with the training and support they need to advance
their careers and find high-quality employment opportunities.
I am delighted to have representatives from both those
programs on our panel of witnesses today. I am eager to learn
more about your experiences working on this important issue,
and I hope we can also use this opportunity to identify ways
that Congress can help support your efforts. So thanks again
for coming and for your service to Alabama's older workers.
I want to turn this over to our panel, and we will go in
this order. I want to introduce our panelists, and then I will
ask each of them to make an opening statement, and then we will
just get into questions and answers and maybe even a dialog.
First we will hear from Dr. Tamara Payne, the director of
Career and Learning Services here at Jefferson State. Dr. Payne
oversees the school's career center and is project director for
its Back to Work 50+ Program. Dr. Payne will tell us about
Jefferson State's efforts to support older workers, including
the women's Economic Stability Initiative.
Next we will hear from Ms. Montina Dorsey-Collins, a Back
to Work 50+ participant. After completing the Back to Work
Program, Ms. Dorsey-Collins received a scholarship from the
Manufacturing Skill Standards Council for its Certified Product
Technician Program at Jefferson State. I look forward to
hearing more about your experience in the Back to Work 50+
Program, Ms. Dorsey-Collins.
I am also grateful to have Ms. Lori Strauss with us today.
Ms. Strauss has joined us from the AARP Foundation in
Washington, DC, where she serves as the manager of workforce
programs. Ms. Strauss leads the Back to Work 50+ national
program and will tell us about the AARP Foundation's workforce
initiatives.
Ms. Sheila Baker joins us from the Middle Alabama Area
Agency on Aging, also known as M4A. There Ms. Baker administers
the Senior Community Service Employment Program for Shelby,
Jefferson, Blount, Chilton, St. Clair, and Walker counties. Ms.
Baker will discuss the SCSEP program and its impact on older
workers in Alabama.
Last, but not least, we will hear from Mr. Doug Dean, the
Chief of Human Resources at Children's of Alabama. Children's
has shown an impressive leadership in promoting age diversity
with baby boomers accounting for a quarter of his workforce.
Mr. Dean will tell us more about Children's efforts to support
older workers and the many benefits of doing so.
I have also promised Mr. Dean that I would not discuss
another program that he and I participate in for folks over the
age of 50, and that is what is known as the BBB baseball game
out at Rickwood. For over 50-plus folks, we play a ball game
every year, or try to, known as ``Beer, Baseball, and Ben
Gay.''
[Laughter.]
Senator Jones. I have promised not to ask Mr. Dean any
questions regarding his baseball skills, and he has promised
not to make any comment about mine.
So, with that, I would like to turn it over to--let us go
in the order that I introduced folks. If we could hear from Dr.
Payne first, the director of Career and Learning Services here
at Jefferson State.
STATEMENT OF DR. TAMARA PAYNE, DIRECTOR OF CAREER AND LEARNING
SERVICES, JEFFERSON STATE COMMUNITY COLLEGE, BIRMINGHAM, AL
Dr. Payne. Thank you. Good afternoon, Senator Jones and
other members of the Senate Special Committee on Aging field
hearing. I am honored to speak with you this afternoon
regarding the Back to Work 50+ Program at Jefferson State
Community College and the unique needs that are faced by 50+
job seekers. Jefferson State has been fortunate to be a part of
the Back to Work 50+ Network since the latter half of 2014, and
in 2016 we welcomed the Women's Economic Stability Initiative,
the WESI family.
The major components of the Back to Work 50+ program is
that participants are invited to a 7 Smart Strategies Workshop
where we discuss the seven effective habits for 50+ job
seekers. From there, participants are accepted into the
program, and we do deep dives into individual and group
coaching, and we also do a computer skills assessment because
we have learned that our Back to Work 50+ candidates are
sometimes lacking in those basic computer skills, and that has
been an immense barrier to employment.
After success with the Back to Work 50+ classic program, we
were approached by AARP Foundation with thoughts of
participating in the Back to Work 50+ WESI Program. As I
mentioned earlier, that is the Women's Economic Stability
Initiative, and it has more of a focus on 50+ candidates that
are female.
Some Alabama figures specifically related to unemployment.
As of 2018, 16.9 percent of women in Alabama ages 60 to 64 are
underemployed. As of October 2018, women ages 50 to 64 spent
over 30 weeks of time unemployed when compared to the average
of ten weeks by their counterparts ages 20 to 24. So Jefferson
State's selection as a WESI partner was an indicator of our
success with the classic program, but it also hinged upon the
needs of female candidates ages 50+ in Alabama.
Specific outcomes for Back to Work 50+ at Jefferson State:
Since 2014, we have served over 853 50+ job seekers; 133
individuals received individual and group coaching, and 179 50+
candidates have been hired with an average wage of $13 an hour.
Some indicators for success: We suggest that you use a
cohort model when you are working with 50+ job candidates
because sometimes you can feel isolated, and you can think that
you are the only individual that is at this stage in your life,
and we like for them to see faces and hear stories that mirror
their own. We love the fact that it embeds basic and
intermediate computer skills because, again, we want to focus
on skills that are lacking. We found that some of our Back to
Work 50+ candidates had these skills, and we need to redevelop
them. And we also found that more than half of our candidates
lack the skills.
We look at short-term, industry-focused training programs
that are hinged upon in-demand jobs, because we do not want
them to finish a program that is designed for their unique
needs and still be in the same economic position.
We also love embedding mock interviews with local employers
so that way they get feedback not just from their coaches but
the potential individuals or entities that are going to hire
them. And we love to highlight success stories. We want our
Back to Work 50+ candidates to see faces and hear stories,
again, that mirror their own and hear what happened once they
came into your program.
We are going to end my segment with a video that highlights
both Jefferson State Community College's partnership with AARP
Foundation, and it highlights some of our Back to Work 50+ WESI
candidates and their success stories.
[Videotape played.]
Thank you.
Senator Jones. Very nice. Thank you very much for that.
So next we will hear from Ms. Montina Dorsey-Collins.
STATEMENT OF MONTINA DORSEY-COLLINS, BACK TO WORK 50+
PARTICIPANT, BIRMINGHAM, AL
Ms. Dorsey-Collins. Thank you. Again, my name is Montina
Dorsey-Collins, and I have been through the Back to Work 50+
Program at Jefferson State College, and I cannot say enough
good things about it. My experience has been exceptional. From
excellent life coaching and learning new skills and the
wonderful support that I have from being in the Back to Work
50+ involvement has taught me that I am not alone in my search
for a better job.
I accidentally found the program by going to the state
employment office located at the One Stop Career Center on the
campus. They recommended the program to me, and I went to the
information session where I learned about the program and the
strategies for gaining employment for people over 50. Finding a
job is so different than it was when I first started working.
My Back to Work 50+ coaching sessions were invaluable. We
talked about the difficulties of finding new and better
employment for people over the age of 50. The coaching helped
me to see the value in myself and the many skills that I
already possess.
The program has offered me fantastic technical skills and
refresher skills. The program led me to Ready to Work, and now
I am in the Certified Production Technician program. These
classes have taught me technology basics, workplace behaviors,
resume building, and it has taught me how to find and apply for
jobs online. My Certified Production Technician classes are
also preparing me for a career in the automotive manufacturing
industry, and I am looking forward to a career that will change
my life and give me the new skills that I need.
And, last, I cannot say enough about the Back to Work 50+
staff. I am currently working selling cemetery plots and
headstones. My current job has no advancement opportunities,
and my income is solely based on sales. My coaches have taught
me and have taken the time to have one-on-one sessions with me
to discuss my needs and where I want to be in my career and
where it should take me from here. They have helped me to see
the need for certification training and how it can help my
career objectives.
I am grateful to have found such a great opportunity
through the Back to Work 50+ Program, and I know that it has
helped me, and I know it can help others.
Thank you.
Senator Jones. Thank you, ma'am.
Next I will turn to Ms. Lori Strauss with the national AARP
Foundation.
STATEMENT OF LORI STRAUSS, MANAGER OF WORKFORCE PROGRAMS, AARP
FOUNDATION, WASHINGTON, DC
Ms. Strauss. Thank you. Senator Jones and members and staff
of the Committee, AARP Foundation thanks you for inviting us to
testify at today's hearing to discuss how we can empower and
equip older workers to meet the challenges and opportunities
presented by an aging workforce. With nearly 38 million members
nationwide and more than 440,000 members in Alabama, AARP is
the Nation's largest nonprofit, nonpartisan organization
dedicated to empowering Americans 50 and older to choose how
they live as they age. I am Lori Strauss, the workforce
programs manager for AARP Foundation, and right now I am
feeling really proud to be one of the people who started this
program. At AARP Foundation, we work to end senior poverty by
helping vulnerable older adults build economic opportunity and
social connectedness. As AARP's charitable affiliate, we serve
AARP members and nonmembers alike.
Today I am going to talk about how, together, all of us
help older workers battle age discrimination, build new skills,
and regain their confidence so they can stay employed and avoid
poverty.
I am going to start with a few statistics: 32 percent of
Alabama's workforce today is over 50, and by 2022, 35 percent
of the U.S. workforce will be 50 or older. In fact, the labor
force participation rate for retirement age workers has
increased substantially, as you heard from the Senator, and
they are now the fastest growing age group in the workforce.
But despite their increasing presence, older workers still
face barriers, and age discrimination is a significant
challenge. Our legal advocacy unit, AARP Foundation Litigation,
is challenging age discrimination in court, and AARP and AARP
Foundation believe that it is well past time to update and
strengthen the ADEA by passing the bipartisan Protecting Older
Workers Against Discrimination Act, sponsored and cosponsored
respectively by the Ranking Member and the Chairman of this
Committee.
Next I am going to talk about how we help older workers
build the skills and regain the confidence through our
workforce programs, and you have heard some of that already.
SCSEP, short for the Senior Community Service Employment
Program, is authorized by the Older Americans Act and funded by
the U.S. Department of Labor. We have administered the program
for 50 years and currently support over 80 sites across the
country, including the state grants for Florida, Washington,
and Missouri. In 2017, we placed more than 3,300 participants
in jobs. However, at the current funding levels nationally,
SCSEP only is able to serve one percent of the eligible
population.
Our newest program, Back to Work 50+, was born out of this
deep knowledge of the needs and the challenges faced by older
workers and our daily experience that there are so many more
people that need assistance than we could help with that
program.
So we designed Back to Work 50+ to provide training,
coaching, and job-seeking tools that are delivered through a
trained contact center and a network of local workforce
development organizations who host community workshops and then
offer the coaching program that you have just heard about.
Each year we respond to at least 20,000 older workers who
call our call center, and we connect those callers to local
American Job Centers and SCSEP programs, and we mail them
copies of this guide that we created called ``7 Smart
Strategies'' that the whole program is based on. We mail that
guide to people who are outside of 25 miles of one of our local
program sites.
Since 2013, 15,000 older workers attended over 1,200 Smart
Strategies Workshops hosted by our local partners. Seventy-
three percent of the people who attended were unemployed; 84
percent were low-income and 50+; 32 percent were African
American, and 48 percent were white. And we are proud to show
that this program is helping workers obtain full-time jobs
where 77 percent of the workers who reported employment held
full-time jobs with an average wage of $15 an hour. Back to
Work 50+ is a national network with a local focus, and a list
of current partners is included in my written testimony.
As you have heard from my colleague Dr. Payne, this is what
a very specific Back to Work 50+ Program looks like, and the
AARP Foundation's goal is to help low-income 50+ workers by
continuing to build alliances with the public workforce system,
with community colleges, American Job Centers, and nonprofit
workforce development organizations like Jefferson State
College, who share a commitment to older workers.
The upcoming WIOA reauthorization will provide Congress
with the opportunity to ensure that the job search and
workforce development needs of older workers are more
effectively addressed.
Much, much more can and needs to be done to ensure that
older workers can continue to make valuable contributions to
their employers, the economy, and the Nation as a whole. AARP
Foundation again thanks the Committee for inviting us to
testify, and we look forward to answering any questions that
you have.
Senator Jones. Thank you, Ms. Strauss.
Next let us turn to Ms. Sheila Baker of the Middle Alabama
Area Agency on Aging.
STATEMENT OF SHEILA BAKER, DIRECTOR OF SENIOR COMMUNITY SERVICE
EMPLOYMENT PROGRAMS (SCSEP), MIDDLE ALABAMA AREA AGENCY ON
AGING, BIRMINGHAM, AL
Ms. Baker. Good afternoon. Again, I am Sheila Baker, and I
am employed with Middle Alabama Area Agency on Aging, and I am
director of the Senior Employment Program that was previously
mentioned.
SCSEP, as we call is, is a national program that provides
qualified, low-income adults, 55 years and older, with part-
time subsidized employment. ``Subsidized'' means that they are
paid, of course, through the program, and they are providing
services through host agencies, as we call them, and those host
agencies will be either government or nonprofit agencies within
the communities. SCSEP is authorized by the Older Americans Act
and is administered, as mentioned previously, by the Department
of Labor Employment and Training Administration and is
administered by Middle Alabama Area Agency on Aging. We have
two programs. We have a state program; that funding comes
directly from the State of Alabama Older Adult Services. Also
we have a federal program that comes from Senior Service
America. But funding from both programs comes through the
Department of Labor.
SCSEP was created in 1965, and it is the oldest program
that helps low employment individuals aged 55 and older to find
employment. We match seniors with host agencies based on their
interest in employment. A lot of people are very interested
nowadays in receptionist positions. Those positions, of course,
require computer training, so what we do is we try to match
that participant with the host agency that they can receive
that computer training that is needed. Often that is difficult.
It is difficult for a few reasons. One reason it is difficult
is because a lot of the host agencies we have are government
agencies, and they cannot have clearance to use the computers
at the worksite.
The other thing is it is difficult because a lot of seniors
have never used a computer before, and so it is very difficult
if they have not used the computer before. We have done some
things to try to work with that or to change that. One of the
things that we have done is the program that we provide
computer training by partnering with libraries, senior centers,
and any other agency in the community that has a computer lab,
like a community action agency. And that is by using also a
computer program that is called ``Generations Online,'' and it
was developed just for seniors who have never used a computer.
SCSEP participants, as I mentioned, must be 55 years and
older. They must have a family income of no more than 125
percent of the federal poverty level. Enrollment priority is
given to veterans, their qualified spouses, individuals who are
75 years or older, have a disability, have low literacy skills
or limited English proficiency, or reside in a rural area, are
homeless or at risk of being homelessness. Currently, M4A has a
waiting list for this program of 350+ participants in our six-
county area.
M4A, however, is committed to making it possible for low-
income and other disadvantaged adults participate fully to
determine their own future and the future of their communities.
M4A provides opportunities to low-income participants, as I
stated, in six counties, which are Blount, Chilton, St. Clair,
Shelby, Walker, and Jefferson counties. Participants not only
receive training at their host agency but can attend computer
classes, as I mentioned, at various locations.
Some of the numbers that I have is that 32 percent are 65
years and older; 13 percent are 70 years or older; 65 percent
of the participants are women; 49 percent of those women are
racial or ethnic minority; 20 percent of those have at least
one disability; 43 percent or more have some college; 39
percent have high school; 18 percent do not have high school;
and 13 percent are veterans; 28 percent live in rural areas.
M4A currently has 17 federal slots and 12 state slots. We often
over-enroll and are looking to find jobs all the time. So if
anyone is interested in hiring participants, please contact us.
Thank you.
Senator Jones. Thank you.
Finally, we will hear from Mr. Doug Dean, vice president of
human resources at Children's of Alabama.
STATEMENT OF DOUG DEAN, CHIEF HUMAN RESOURCE OFFICER,
CHILDREN'S OF ALABAMA, BIRMINGHAM, AL
Mr. Dean. Thank you. And, Sheila, I will be in touch with
you immediately following this.
Thank you. I am Doug Dean. I am chief H.R. officer at
Children's of Alabama. Next March will be my 20th year at
Children's. We are approaching right at 5,000 employees these
days as Alabama's premier and comprehensive provider of
pediatric health care services for the children of Alabama and
surrounding states.
I cannot miss the opportunity to assure our distinguished
Senator that I am with you on what happens at historic Rickwood
Field once a year stays at Rickwood Field. However, I do feel
it a little cruel on your part, Senator, that you invited me to
sit as a witness on this panel on the occasion of my 60th
birthday today.
Senator Jones. All right.
[Applause.]
Mr. Dean. So believe me when I say I have self-interest
like maybe some of you in the importance of this issue.
My statement briefly: The fulfillment of our vital mission
at Children's of Alabama rises and falls in large part as a
result of attracting, developing, and certainly retaining
highly skilled talent to deliver safe, quality care to children
and their families with excellent outcomes. We are not here to
take a straw poll, but I know without asking--if I asked for a
show of hand have you had a child, a grandchild, a relative who
has been touched by our services, even in the last year, most
everyone in the room would likely raise their hand. So we
understand how embedded in our community our mission is as a
not-for-profit organization.
As it relates to this Special Committee on Aging, which I
am cheering on, Senator, and your fine work--and I know I speak
for my other human resource executive colleagues in saying
that--I would say in the recent decade, a key focus of our
strategy at Children's of Alabama has been to work very hard to
understand our workforce demographics. I refer to it as
``segmented marketing,'' if you swim in those waters, that
instead of one size fits all, whether it be your customer in
retail or my customer, our employees and our prospective
employees, it is important to understand everything that makes
those segments tick and why they would want to be part of your
team, what skills they need, what they are looking for in their
quality of work life, and then to do what is not always easy
for us when you have got 100 years of habits, mostly good
habits, with our management practices, we are having to re-
skill ourselves as leaders to customize--and that is a word I
like, to customize our workplace practices to recruiting and
retention of those defined segments.
So what about the older worker segment of our workforce?
Today Children's of Alabama workforce is comprised of 25
percent boomers--and we are actually starting to break that
into two parts: the newer boomers, which are in their 50's, and
we have a significant--that is 15 percent in our case; ten
percent of our workforce are the older boomers that are 60+.
I am proud to report that our own CEO--I already `fessed'
up as to the milestone I hit today, but our CEO, the legendary
leader in Birmingham, Mike Warren, would not mind me saying
that he is pushing 70, Suzanne, if he has not already arrived,
and you would not be able to tell. He runs circles around the
rest of us in terms of energy and talent and drive.
So today we are 25 percent boomers, baby boomers, that is
the 53 to 70 age band; 26 percent Gen X, 36 to 52 age band; and
clearly on the rise, in our case, of necessity, we are an
astounding 49 percent millennials running Children's of
Alabama. It is kind of shocking if you walk the halls in our
beautiful new facility, Benjamin Russell Hospital for Children,
our talented staff in some cases do not look like they are too
many years past being children themselves. But not to worry.
Because we work in teams and we are very conscious and
deliberate about proving competencies of the staff, mixing
teams based on age, I think very pertinent to today's
discussion, so that you always have a mentor, you have an
experienced veteran team member, for example, in the case of a
staff nurse, we really love it if we have a 15 to 20 plus year
tenured staff nurse who has seen it all.
It is not uncommon at all, probably happens every week,
that a board-certified physician is working with a child, and
very experienced physicians, and on occasion an experienced
nurse will say, ``That is not what I see going on here,'' and
that physician will trust the nurse and dig a little farther,
and sure enough, experience trumps diagnostics and medical
training. So the important message is, in our case--and I
suspect in most every industry and company--it really benefits
you from a business and customer and outcomes point of view to
have a mix of skill and age and experience.
I guess I would close by saying I do not think we have
scratched the surface necessarily as an industry in HR, a
profession, in understanding the business, the tremendous
business value of having age diversity across the whole
spectrum in your workforce. And we could talk about other
important forms of diversity, but today's subject relates to
age.
I will close by saying that the legendary Florida State
football coach, Bobby Bowden, coached there I think well into
his 70's, and late in his career, he became tired of media
asking him, ``Have you thought about retiring?'' And he finally
said, quoted a legendary quote, response, ``You know, I am not
really in a hurry to retire because after that there is only
one more big event in life.''
[Laughter.]
Mr. Dean. So we embrace having workers at every age. We do
not encourage people to retire. We let them have their hands on
the wheel related to that. We have worked very hard at up-
skilling people and redirecting careers, mid-career people want
to be part of the health care mission like ours. And I just
again thank my fellow witnesses and Senator Jones and this
Committee on Aging for the opportunity to speak today.
Senator Jones. Great. Thank you.
Now, I will ask some questions, but if anybody wants to
chime in with any answers, please feel free. We can have as
much of a dialog as we need. I have got some specifics here,
but there may be things that you all want to say.
I want to first ask Ms. Strauss, it is no secret that women
generally are disproportionately affected by a lot of issues in
the workplace, including age discrimination and unemployment.
The AARP Foundation introduced the Women's Economic Stability
Initiative, WESI, to provide targeted support for older women.
Older women obviously get kind of a double whammy. They are
older and they are women.
So what prompted AARP to develop the new initiative? And
what do you think contributes to the gender employment gap? And
can Congress do anything to help? Loaded questions.
Ms. Strauss. Lots of questions. Thank you, Senator.
Well, the research that you mentioned is the reason that we
ended up working on--focusing on the issue of older women. It
is widely known that 75 percent of the elderly poor are women
and women live longer. So when we looked at how we were going
to address poverty, we moved up the age ladder, and we said,
OK, we are going to look at how do we help women stay employed
for as long as they need to. And then we applied for a grant
from the Corporation for National Community Service that
allowed us to be able to host a program where we were able to
actually pilot the vision that we had, which was not just
looking at training or one piece of the puzzle for job
candidates, but really looking at the whole experience.
One of the things that we know we are pretty good at is
marketing and communications and finding women, finding people
and bringing them out and having them step forward so they can
take advantage of the services that are available. So the
design that we tested with the different community colleges
was--well, we called it ``end-to-end customer experience.'' It
started with the Back to Work 50+ title named for the program
nationally, and then using AARP's megaphone to say come here,
find us, and then they could call, very quickly get connected,
and then we had great partners who helped us create the models
that included the things that we know older adults need,
individual time to have individual coaching where they are
looking at their skills, looking at their interests, seeing how
that matches with the job market, and then working through a
little bit of their own frustrations around why they are not
employed, and then understanding how to navigate the process
and build their skills.
What can Congress do? Well, I think I pointed to two things
in my testimony that I will reflect back to. The first is the
Senior Community Service Employment Program is really important
for older women, and we have gone through a couple of years now
where that has been slated for elimination, and we are
completely and absolutely opposed to that, and we would hope
that you would be as well.
The second thing I would say is the Workforce Investment
Act and the public workforce system is ready to and interested
in serving older workers, and we have been spending the last
five years working with community colleges and American Job
Centers to create tools and resources that they can easily
utilize, be able to adjust their current staffing to be able to
focus on this population and do it a little bit differently,
and speak with employers in their communities to help them
understand how age discrimination or ageism is happening in
their own companies. So Congress can help us by helping to
raise awareness within the Department of Labor and the public
workforce system on behalf of this population and supporting--
continuing to support SCSEP.
Senator Jones. Great. Thank you.
Dr. Payne, you administer Jefferson State's WESI Program.
Have you found any particular solutions or strategies to be the
most effective in supporting older female workers?
Dr. Payne. We definitely have found that there are some
strategies that work more than others. One of the strategies
that we really love is the individual and the group coaching.
With the individual coaching, as Lori says, it gives us an
opportunity to talk one on one with the job candidate to figure
out what their hard skills and soft skills are.
So one of the things we found is our Back to Work 50+
candidates are more likely to shortchange themselves in regards
to how valuable life experience is. Even if they have never
worked or they have not received a paycheck in the last couple
years, it does not mean that they have not utilized soft
skills. And we all know how valuable those soft skills are,
just being able to communicate, being able to showcase those
listening skills.
Also, with the group coaching, we found that that is an
indicator for success, again, because they are able to tell
their stories to one another. We have had Back to Work 50+
candidates that have gone on to become fast friends. They have
gone to each other's houses. And so we meet candidates
sometimes that they may be self-supporting; they may be empty
nesters; everybody may have passed away. And so they feel
isolated. So with that group coaching, it supplements the
individual because we can do one-on-one, but the group
coaching, they get to make connections with other individuals
and hear stories that are similar to theirs, and there is
strength in unity.
Senator Jones. Great. Again, if anybody wants to add
anything, just let me know.
I would like to ask Ms. Dorsey-Collins, first of all, I am
really pleased that you enrolled in the Certified Production
Technician because I hear from Alabama's auto manufacturers all
the time about the need for skilled workers, so that is great.
I am hoping that we are going to expand that a good bit as
well.
You mentioned you kind of found out about the CPT program
by accident. Tell us a couple things. What do you think we
might do to get that word out a little bit better? And once you
saw it, how did you decide that might be a good fit for you?
Ms. Dorsey-Collins. Well, when I stumbled across the
program, I was very excited that there was something available
for 50+ candidates. And I think to give the program more
awareness is increased advertising, maybe TV, radio, flyers,
incentives, meet-and-greets, or just especially social media.
But the program, I am so ecstatic that it is available for
people like me and that can allow me to just--like Dr. Payne
said, when you do not realize about your soft skills, maybe you
are taking care of an elderly person and not knowing that that
could be a soft skill that you could use and be qualified for a
position in the workplace that you never just thought that, you
know, you would be available to do. But that is pretty much it.
Senator Jones. OK. Ms. Baker, and maybe, Dr. Payne, you
would want to weigh in on this as well, how does the Back to
Work 50+ Program and the SCSEP program help participants--how
do they help determine what training and employment
opportunities to pursue? And do you partner with businesses and
industries in the area to help find or locate those
participants and kind of identify the opportunities that are
out there?
Ms. Baker. There are some partnerships with business and
industry, but usually they are going to be the government
agencies and the nonprofits. We can also profit by way of on-
the-job training, which means that we will pay---if it is not a
nonprofit agency, we can ask for--have a situation where we can
pay the wage of that person providing that there is an
opportunity for that person to be hired at the end of the OJT.
What was the first part of your question, please?
Senator Jones. The first part was, you know, how do you
help them, direct them to the areas that they are interested in
and the opportunities that are out there?
Ms. Baker. And we do that by doing a good assessment. We
have to do an initial assessment and an initial individual
employment plan. And then sometimes it may change what that
person wants to do. So what we do is we will go in and we will
do a reassessment every six months and update the individual
employment plan.
Also, in between that, sometimes a participant, we may
change what we call their ``host agency,'' and if we change
their host agency, we also need to do another reassessment
because we always want to make sure that we are setting them up
to succeed and not fail by making sure that we are finding all
of the skills that they have, the skills that they need to
develop in working with us.
Senator Jones. All right. Dr. Payne, do you want to add
anything to that?
Dr. Payne. I will. There are a couple of different things
that we do. About 80 percent of our candidates wants to do
something administrative, and we know from hearing from Lori
that sometimes those PC skills, those technology skills are
lacking. So we use a Northstar Digital Literacy Assessment, so
we assess everybody's basic computer skills. Individuals, we
are looking at a numerical value, but I am a qualitative
person, so I am also concerned with what does the wording say.
And we are trying to ascertain who could benefit from a basic
computer skills course.
Another partnership that we have is with the college's
Workforce Development Program that is directed by Kay Potter,
who is here in the crowd. Kay does a wonderful job of working
with industries to develop these short certificate training
programs that are aligned with in-demand jobs. So we use an
assessment called the ``Virtual Career Network'' to give our
Back to Work 50+ candidates an assessment that looks at their
interests and also looks at what hard skills and soft skills
they have. And we see if they are aligned with in-demand jobs
that are offered through training programs in our workforce
development.
If we have someone that has an interest that may not
necessarily be in demand, then we are all about making sure
they have information about the outlook of that career path and
about the potential career trajectory, because we are also not
about denying an individual if they have had a dream for 30, 40
years to work in a certain career path. So, primarily, we do
the one-on-one coaching. Again, because I am qualitative, we
supplement that with a basic computer skills assessment to
identify those technical deficiencies, and we also rely on the
Virtual Career Network, and we really on an assessment called
``16Personalities,'' and Virtual Career Network and
16Personalities are both free and available for anyone to use.
And the 16Personalities assessment just tells us what type of
leader or non-leader a candidate is, and we talk about how that
applies to the work setting that they envision themselves in.
The second part of your question is between Kay's area,
workforce development, and the Career Center, we are talking
with human resources personnel, and we are trying to find out
what are their employment needs, and then we are trying to find
the best way to train our Back to Work 50+ candidates to meet
those needs.
The partnership we have with the Department of Labor has
also been valuable because that gives us access to human
resources personnel that we may not have had the opportunity to
meet so that we can highlight both the Back to Work 50+ program
and highlight diversity among the candidates that participate.
Senator Jones. Great. Thank you.
Mr. Dean, obviously older workers face really unique
challenges in the workforce, including managing their own
health problems, juggling caregiver demands with their busy
work schedules. What is it that employers, and if Children's
has anything unique, can do to empower workers and help them
thrive in the face of such challenges?
Mr. Dean. I mentioned in my opening statement the notion of
instead of workplace policies that are one size fits all, if
you will, that instead they recognize that the real goal is to
attract and secure and retain the talent to run your
organization, and that is going to cut across generations and a
whole diverse array of worker profiles. Then it becomes really
important to really push and insist on the part of your
managers and even in your workplace policies, which I am one of
the owners of, flexibility. That is a critical word.
Sometimes we find we will have a manager, well intending,
who just finds it more convenient or easier to have--you know,
to want 40-hour full-time workers almost no matter what. And
you have conversations with them, and usually we are
successful, our H.R. consultants, at winning them over that you
have got--we have a 65-year-old talented worker who really
knows their way around, knows our health system, knows what we
do, is great at a job, is well liked by their team members, but
they really either are not--no longer want to work 40 hours a
week or in many cases are not able to, the Senator's point
about the demands of often aging parents and so many other
issues.
Oh, by the way, the growing number of grandparents who are
still parenting children themselves, you just thought your
parenting was finished.
So we really push flexibility. It is a win if we keep any
of our talent online, whether that is a 10-hour-a-week
schedule, an on-call schedule. We have, amazingly, some workers
that really have officially retired and they love the freedom
to do what they want, but they loved our organization so much,
they really love the idea of they have this skill and they are
willing to be on call. So if we have someone out on maternity
leave or whatever it may be, we can call them, and they are
willing to come work for a start-and-finish, a sunset period.
There are so many more examples that given our limited time
we cannot go into, but I think it is all about developing--
listening to and having a dialog with workers at every segment,
and particularly related to today, workers over 50+, and find
out what do they want. What would it take for you to stay in
our health system longer? And as I look at our inflow of
millennial workers, it is only going to grow, and the outflow
of boomers who plan to retire, it is kind of an alarming
question I do not have the answer to yet. Can we, in fact,
count on our millennials to put in 20-plus-year careers at the
same organization? If the answer to that is no, then we have
got a lot of work to do in a short period of time, Senator.
Senator Jones. All right. Thank you.
Ms. Strauss, I want to go back to you real quick, because
obviously we are hearing what a great program this is at
Jefferson State. I know there are other--how many are there
around the country like this? Like 20-something maybe?
Ms. Strauss. Yes, I think so. Right now we have 16 sites
and we have 26 locations.
Senator Jones. OK. I am wondering, what can we do? We have
somebody else--I mean, this is Jefferson State Junior College.
We have got a really great junior college system in Alabama. If
other sites in Alabama would like to do this, what would be the
quick steps that they could take to try to partner with AARP
and get one of these things going?
Ms. Strauss. Well, that is a beautiful question, Senator.
It is exactly what we are doing right now. So this year we
started to expand Back to Work 50+ through strategic
partnerships that we call ``non-grant partnerships.'' Our
startup includes grant funding, but now we have created a
turnkey version of the program so that it is literally--the
first step is an e-mail to me to say that people are
interested, and then we explain how to start, and we give them
access to a Web site that has our playbook and our materials.
They sign a non-financial letter of agreement with us, and we
start. And this is something AARP Foundation is committed to,
to provide the infrastructure and the assets.
You mentioned earlier the importance of outreach. We have
created marketing materials that were created based on what we
hear older workers need to hear, like messages like, ``You have
the experience, now regain the confidence. Call this 1-800
number to get started.'' Then they call a 1-800 number, they
register for a workshop, and they start the program.
So an e-mail to me, and we have a processing--we are really
looking to grow right now, so thank you.
Senator Jones. All right. Well, I will tell you what we are
going to do. This lady here, Ms. Campbell, she will send out
something to all our junior colleges, she and Rebecca Howard,
who is my education person, to try to get this done.
Ms. Strauss. Excellent.
Senator Jones. At least to get the word out from our
office. OK?
Ms. Strauss. Thank you so much.
Senator Jones. Thank you very much.
So, Ms. Dorsey-Collins, back to you. You are selling
cemetery lots now.
Ms. Dorsey-Collins. Yes.
Senator Jones. But you are certified. You finished that
technician. What are your next steps? What are you hoping for?
Ms. Dorsey-Collins. My next step is to finish the
Production Certification Program and hopefully to gain
employment with one of the manufacturing companies locally.
Senator Jones. One of the automobile manufacturing
companies?
Ms. Dorsey-Collins. Yes.
Senator Jones. That is Montgomery or Tuscaloosa?
Ms. Dorsey-Collins. Yes.
Senator Jones. You are good with that?
Ms. Dorsey-Collins. I am good with that.
Senator Jones. Ready to move?
Ms. Dorsey-Collins. I am ready to move.
Senator Jones. Just out of curiosity, with some of the
folks, Dr. Payne, Ms. Baker, do you see that older folks that
you get are willing to relocate on occasion if they need to?
Ms. Baker. On occasion, yes. The biggest issues that I have
seen are seniors who live in the rural areas and driving long
distances, because most of those employment opportunities are
going to be in the municipalities, and if you live in----
Senator Jones. You can live in a lot of places in Alabama.
Just pick one.
Ms. Baker. Rural Alabama does not want to drive into
municipalities, so that is the issue that we have,
transportation.
Senator Jones. Is there a way somehow to focus on our rural
areas? We are trying to do a lot with, you know, the rural
parts of the state. Is there a way to kind of identify those
areas that we might can get into? Or is it just kind of--not
luck of the draw, but----
Ms. Baker. I think we can identify them, yes. Whether we
can change that desire for those people to drive into
municipalities, that is not going to happen readily.
In terms of employment, I think what we need to do is
identify a way to get employers to understand that these are
very good and valuable workers, and I think as you mentioned
earlier that sometimes you have your employees working part-
time instead of full-time. Most seniors are looking for part-
time employment, and what I have tried to impress upon some
individuals or industries that I have spoken with is that
sometimes that can help you because if you hire two people
part-time, then you are usually saving money with benefits,
because most seniors already have insurance so they are not
looking for insurance, and they are really not that concerned
about vacation and sick days.
Senator Jones. Right. So one of the things we need to try
to do is maybe identify employers in these rural areas so they
do not have to drive as far.
Ms. Baker. Yes.
Senator Jones. That kind of leads into another area where I
wanted to go, and that is--oh, I am sorry.
Dr. Payne. I am sorry, Senator Jones. I wanted to piggyback
off of what you were asking.
Senator Jones. Sure.
Dr. Payne. In regards to our Back to Work 50+ candidates,
on occasion we get individuals that are in a position to pick
up and move. But since 90 percent of the individuals who come
to Back to Work 50+ are underemployed or not employed, they are
not in a position to pick up and move.
So one of the things that we have done in regards to the
MSSC Automotive Initiative is we have also looked at industries
that need Certified Production Technicians that are not
necessarily in a rural area. So we have looked at Autocar, we
have looked at LTEC, because we realize that for some
individuals transportation may be an issue.
For us at our Jefferson campus, we do have the bus that
comes right on campus, so we are more likely to get candidates
there that have issues with transportation. So I will say that
is one of the things that we have worked on, forming
partnerships with entities that may have either a ride-share
program--so we work with a couple of different banks that are
downtown that have a ride-share at certain peak times of the
year, and so our Back to Work 50+ candidates have been able to
take advantage of that, and also look at industries that are
closer to where they live so it would not be such a hardship
for them to get there.
Senator Jones. OK. Great. Well, that kind of leads in: What
are you guys seeing in terms of regional trends or differences?
Is there something unique to Alabama that, you know, you have
seen for older Alabamans versus another area of the country?
There may or may not be. I am just asking.
Dr. Payne. Well, piggybacking off what Ms. Baker said
again, lack of transportation has been an issue. So in some of
our counterparts--and Lori can attest to this--that are in
larger areas where the public transportation system is more
widely used, they can branch out more, candidates can branch
out more for training programs. They can branch out more for
employment. So one of the issues that our 50+ candidates are
facing and other individuals are facing is that our public
transportation system is not as strong as it should be.
I will say that with our Back to Work 50+ candidates,
something that has been more unique is with the group coaching
session and them forming partnerships. We have had Back to Work
50+ candidates that have picked up their friends that they have
met in the 7 Smart Strategies Workshop, they have picked up
their new friend that they have met in a coaching session, and
they have done ride-share on their own. And so part of the Back
to Work 50+ model is that we are providing about 90 percent of
the services, but the other ten percent is the candidates
getting to know each other, to feel each other out, and forming
those relationships that we want to transcend the program but
to last 10, 15 years after they were Back to Work 50+
participants. And when we are talking to our counterparts that
are running Back to Work 50+ Programs, we are seeing some of
those relationships. But I think because of the transportation
issue, we have seen that a little bit stronger in Alabama.
Senator Jones. Great.
Ms. Strauss. I am going to piggyback on what Dr. Payne
said. One of the things that we see nationally that is unique
about what is happening here in Birmingham is job candidates in
Birmingham, they want training. And so the grant that we
provide to Jefferson State through the Federal Corporation for
National and Community Service they are using for training and
scholarships, and that is very--that is unique and important
because it is not available to older adults in general.
One of the age discrimination issues that we always focus
on is the fact that people tend not to have access to training
in their workplace as they age, and there are some
misperceptions or assumptions that employers make that older
workers either are not interested or they should be invested
in, which then causes, when they become unemployed, then they
are behind the eight ball, and then they are trying to figure
out how to get access to training. So the interest in training
in this location is huge compared to other places, and the
program that Dr. Payne and Kay Potter have created builds on
that interest, and so they have a lot more people in training
and are moving forward in occupational skills than other places
in the country.
Senator Jones. Good. Mr. Dean, that kind of leads into
something I wanted to ask you. Correct me if I am wrong, but it
seems to me that Children's commitment to diversity with an
older population of workforce is really kind of two-fold. One,
you may have people that kind of grow with you, age with you,
which requires that same level of training to keep them,
especially in the health care delivery field. But is there also
a component of attracting those older workers as well that may
be new to the field? So talk about that commitment and what
Children's does to maintain both of those?
Mr. Dean. A powerful question. Thank you for the
opportunity to comment on that. I guess we are uniquely
relevant to this discussion in this respect, and that is that,
of course, we are proud of this, but it presents unique
business opportunities and challenges that we have. It is
really common for talented workers to come to work at
Children's of Alabama either immediately after their education
or skills they acquire, however they do, certifications,
nursing school, and never leave Children's of Alabama until
they retire. And in other cases they may work with us 10, 15
years, be at home with children for a while, return to the
workforce, go to other companies for opportunities. And every
two weeks, when I welcome our new employees at orientation, I
ask--and I put them at ease, and I am not calling them out to
embarrass them, but just to celebrate. Invariably, we have half
a dozen who are rehires, so they come back for a second tour of
duty.
So if you ask any H.R. executive how they feel about
retaining talent, the answer you are going to get--and I think
it is almost always sincere--is we love it if we have full
career staff that will be part of our company. But we are also
realistic that it is a very mobile world. We love our
Millennial workers, but we are also realistic that for
different big societal reasons, developmental generational
reasons, they may view the world differently than our parents
or grandparents did in terms of 30 years at the same company.
And that is not necessarily bad. Maybe they are the smart ones,
that they are really moving their career like free agents where
the opportunity is. So we have that.
I will give you one example, and it is becoming a growing
example, of how we look outside the company, Senator, and have
instances in which we can be part of changing the career
direction of someone. His name is Bobby, and it is pretty cool
to talk about a staff nurse that is male because that has been
a unique challenge for every hospital. It is a heavily female-
dominated career track.
Bobby came to me, he was kind of referred to me, and he was
in a sales and service role, a 48-year-old gentleman, and he
just really had an interest in a nursing career. And I gave him
some shadowing experiences, and fortunately, our nursing
management is happy to do that if there is promise there. He
did his part, applied at Jefferson State for nursing school,
completed it, passed the boards, and here is mid-career, and he
is in our emergency department, one of the most valued nurses
that they have hired. And he never dreamed he would be in a
nursing career even at age 45.
Now, those are happening organically right now. What I
think we should work more aggressively at, maybe other
companies should, is to partner with higher education and
institutions who can help us. They are better at training
skills. The 4-year educational track is not necessarily for
everyone. There is growing legitimate debate over the return on
investment with the cost of education. So where we see
talented, capable people and we can more rapidly up-skill them
and they are ready to go to work, and I think that is going to
become a much more prevalent opportunity for us.
Senator Jones. Great. So we are kind of winding down with
the official phase. I want to end with two things: one, a
question about age discrimination; and then just also if
anybody would like to add anything that we have not covered,
feel free to do that. But, unfortunately, studies show that age
discrimination remains a significant issue. Often we think of
discrimination in terms of race and religion and gender, but
clearly age discrimination is a significant problem affecting
older adults in our workforce.
Throughout your work, have you identified any solutions for
addressing age discrimination other than the obvious that we
have talked about here--which, quite frankly, is a culture, a
changing culture, which I think you are all promoting and I
applaud. That may be the most significant thing. Are there
other issues--I know there are some things pending in Congress
that we might can do that we want to look at. Anything about
that? And I would also like as part of this wrap-up, if anybody
wants to just throw out anything that we have not covered by
way of questions, feel free to. We have got a few more minutes
before we kind of close out and open it up to the audience. So
discrimination and just general topics.
Dr. Payne. One of the things that we have noticed is that a
couple of the big names have started taking the date of birth
off of the employment application. So Regents Bank is one of
the employers that we work with for our Back to Work 50+
candidates, and they no longer have your date of birth on their
employment application. So they will not know how old you are
until you actually show up for the interview. So that may be a
potential solution as more companies see how Regents Bank fares
and how other entities fare if they want to remove that from
the application.
Senator Jones. That is an interesting concept, kind of the
same thing with people who have a prior criminal conviction,
they have removed that from some of those things, too.
Yes, Lori?
Ms. Strauss. I will just add that we are in a really unique
time right now with very low unemployment. Companies are pretty
desperate for talent, and they are coming to us and asking for
help to recruit, to find, recruit, and train older workers. And
AARP has a set of resources right now, AARP.org/employers, that
has really simple things for H.R. departments to be able to use
to help their team members or the managers just learn a little
bit about what misconceptions they might have. We also talk
with employers about changing their recruitment materials so
that they include multi-generational images, changing their
recruitment strategies so that they are not always focusing on
places where just younger workers might be, and to reach out to
programs like SCSEP and Back to Work 50+ resourcing partners.
Senator Jones. OK.
Ms. Baker. I would just like to add to that. One of the
things that SCSEP does is--because we really have some great
talent with the SCSEP participants. We encourage them and we
help them to build a functional resume versus a chronological
resume, because I feel--and it has been proven--that if they
can get in the door, they can sell themselves. But they must
get in the door without what it states on the resume.
Senator Jones. Good. Anybody else want to add anything
before we close out? Mr. Dean?
Mr. Dean. It is an important subject, and, you know, it
would be normal, I guess, to assume that if you ask a question
about employment and legal risk to an H.R. leader, then we are
going to think in terms of how to avoid a lawsuit. But to me
that is the bare minimum, not a very inspiring way to view this
important question. And I think organizations need to--we need
to apply some peer pressure, and I think it is already
happening, to your point, Lori, of necessity. There is not a
talent pool out there. When I need talent, by and large, and
every other company, we are stealing it from each other. And so
the business necessity and urgency is there in case there are
any vestiges of age discrimination that go on in the hiring
practices of a manager or a company to rethink that and prove
to yourself that you are not by bringing in that supply of
talent, and I think just the presence of it without talking
about it and preaching about it necessarily, although that does
not hurt either, and setting the tone at the top can radically
change that. We do not have that difficulty because many of us
in important leadership positions are hardly junior in terms of
age ourselves, and so more and more there is a vested interest
to have a very balanced workforce in terms of age demographics.
Senator Jones. All right. Anybody? One more OK.
Ms. Baker. One more thing, which is skills-based hiring
practices are a promising practice that is being supported and
promoted by Skillful and the Markle Foundation. And when
employers use skills-based hiring practices, they take away
implicit bias. And when employers are looking at skills alone,
older workers tend to rise to the top because they have the
experience and they have the background. And so that is a
promising practice that we are partnering with that we think is
really important for employers to take advantage of.
Senator Jones. Great. Well, thank you all, to all of our
witnesses. You were just an outstanding panel today.
I also want to thank Jefferson State for also allowing us
to be here today and providing the accommodations. We really
appreciate the hospitality. Also to the staff here who helped
put this thing together, we as Senators cannot function without
this incredible staff that we have.
Our Committee members will have until Monday, December
10th, to submit additional questions for the record, so you may
be receiving some additional questions.
Finally, over here on the side, we have a Committee
pamphlet called ``America's Aging Workforce.'' If you would
like to take a look at some of the work that the Committee has
done and some of the findings, please feel free to pick that
up.
So, with that, I will adjourn the hearing. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 2:35 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
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APPENDIX
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Prepared Witness Statements
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Additional Statements for the Record
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