    [Senate Hearing 115-667]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 115-667

         BRIEFING ON INFORMATION SURROUNDING THE MARINES UNITED WEBSITE

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                          COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                         ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION
                                   __________

                                 MARCH 14, 2017
                                   __________

             Printed for the use of the Committee on Armed Services

                        [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

           Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov/

                                  ___________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    37-566 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2019

                          COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

                        JOHN McCAIN, Arizona, Chairman
    JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma		JACK REED, Rhode Island
    ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi		BILL NELSON, Florida
    DEB FISCHER, Nebraska			CLAIRE McCASKILL, Missouri
    TOM COTTON, Arkansas			JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire
    MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota		KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York
    JONI ERNST, Iowa			RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
    THOM TILLIS, North Carolina		JOE DONNELLY, Indiana
    DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska			MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
    DAVID PERDUE, Georgia			TIM KAINE, Virginia
    TED CRUZ, Texas				ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
    LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina		MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
    BEN SASSE, Nebraska			ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts
    LUTHER STRANGE, Alabama			GARY C. PETERS, Michigan

                       Christian D. Brose, Staff Director
                  Elizabeth L. King, Minority Staff Director

                                      (ii)

                                C O N T E N T S
                                   ________

                                 March 14, 2017

                                                                       Page

    Briefing on Information Surrounding the Marines United Website...     1

    Stackley, Honorable Sean J., Acting Secretary of the Navy........     4
    Neller, General Robert B., USMC, Commandant of the United States      5
      Marine Corps.
    Green, SgtMajMC Ronald L., USMC, Sergeant Major of the Marine         7
      Corps.

    Questions for the Record.........................................    42

    Outside Statements for the Record:
      Vietnam Veterans of America's Statement for Record:
        Rowan, John, National President and CEO......................    67

      Kirk-Cuomo, Erin, Co-founder of Not In My Marine Corps.........    68

                                     (iii)

         BRIEFING ON INFORMATION SURROUNDING THE MARINES UNITED WEBSITE

                                  ----------

                            TUESDAY, MARCH 14, 2017

                                           U.S. Senate,
                                   Committee on Armed Services,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:00 a.m. in
    Room SD-G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Senator John
    McCain (chairman of the committee) presiding.
        Committee Members present: Senators McCain, Inhofe, Wicker,
    Fischer, Cotton, Rounds, Ernst, Tillis, Sullivan, Graham, Cruz,
    Sasse, Strange, Reed, McCaskill, Shaheen, Gillibrand,
    Blumenthal, Donnelly, Hirono, Kaine, King, Heinrich, Warren,
    and Peters.

           OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JOHN McCAIN, CHAIRMAN

        Chairman McCain. Well, good morning.
        The Senate Armed Services Committee meets this morning to
    receive testimony on information surrounding the unfortunate
    matter of the Marines United Facebook group.
        I want to thank each of our witnesses for appearing before
    the committee this morning: Acting Secretary of the Navy Sean
    Stackley; General Robert Neller, Commandant of the Marine
    Corps; and Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps Ronald Green.
    Sergeant Major, good morning and thank you for coming and thank
    you for your appearance here.
        The committee is saddened and disturbed by allegations that
    female marines have been subjected to online harassment and
    abuse, including denigrating comments and nonconsensual sharing
    of images apparently in some cases by fellow marines. Our
    witnesses are here to inform us about these allegations and
    what is being done to address the impact on the Service,
    especially those marines who have been victimized.
        All who love the Marine Corps are embarrassed and outraged
    by these allegations, none more so than our witnesses today.
    General Neller, since these allegations were made, you have
    been unequivocal in communicating to the men and women you lead
    that behavior like this is unacceptable and fundamentally
    opposed to the values of the Marine Corps.
        I want to reemphasize the Commandant's message to marines
    last week. The Members of this committee share your hope that
    marines who have been victims of harassment and abuse will
    report that conduct to their chain of command, chaplain, or
    victim leader counsel. It is our expectation that Marine
    officers and leaders will support those victims, protect them
    from reprisal, and do all in their power to prevent abuse of
    any marine.
        At this time, we do not know how many marines were involved
    in these allegations of harassment and abuse or what motivated
    those who were to engage in such disgraceful and unprofessional
    behavior. We do not know the origin of images of female marines
    on the Marines United Facebook group, some of which may have
    been taken or shared without their consent. We do not know how
    many marines may have been targeted.
        This committee expects the Department of the Navy and its
    senior Marine Corps leaders to provide updates on the
    investigation into these issues when appropriate, as well as
    keep the committee apprised of any corrective action the Marine
    Corps may take concerning policies, procedures, and the
    education and training of marines. We realize that much of this
    information may be law enforcement sensitive due to ongoing
    criminal investigations. For that reason, immediately following
    this open hearing, the committee will proceed to a closed door
    session to hear from our witnesses on these sensitive matters.
        While there may be much that we still have to learn, there
    is much that we know already. We know that the actions of those
    marines involved in Marines United do not reflect the culture
    and values of their service, not only honor, courage, and
    commitment, but also mutual respect for all of their fellow
    human beings, values that are upheld and lived each day by the
    overwhelming majority of marines. That is why Americans are
    proud of our Marine Corps, because the conduct of most marines
    is deserving of our praise and respect.
        We also know the challenges we see in our military often
    reflect similar challenges confronting broader society. In this
    case, we are all confronting the unique challenges posed by the
    advent and proliferation of social media which, like any
    technology, is an enabler, an enabler of incredibly good and
    decent things, but also dark and troubling things. The same
    technology that allows one group of marines to create a support
    group to help their battle buddies struggling with post-
    traumatic stress can be used by another group to humiliate and
    demean their fellow female comrades.
        At the same time, we know that those who serve in the
    profession of arms must be held to a higher standard. They
    would not want it any other way. We know that the Marine Corps
    cannot fight and win the Nation's wars if marines do not
    respect and trust one another. This is not just a matter of
    good personal conduct. It is a matter of military
    effectiveness.
        That is why any marine who disrespects a fellow marine
    dishonors the values of the Marine Corps and harms its mission
    to defend the Nation. This kind of behavior is unacceptable for
    any marine or any member of the United States Armed Forces. The
    actions of our civilian and military leadership, not just in
    response to these allegations, but at all times, must
    demonstrate that such misconduct will not be excused or
    tolerated.
        Finally, as Members of the committee are aware, these
    allegations surrounding Marines United are currently under
    investigation by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service
    (NCIS). Therefore, I encourage Members of the committee to
    please reserve any questions that may be law enforcement
    sensitive for the closed session to follow. I do not want this
    committee's proceedings to be construed in any way that might
    interfere with the swift delivery of justice to those
    individuals that may have engaged in criminal behavior.
        Once again, I thank the witnesses for appearing before the
    committee today.
        Senator Reed?

                     STATEMENT OF SENATOR JACK REED

        Senator Reed. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for
    holding this very important session to give the Marine Corps
    the opportunity to give an initial briefing on what they know
    and what they do not know about reports of abhorrent behavior
    by some of our marines using the Marines United website. It is
    unusual for the committee to receive a briefing like this one
    on an ongoing criminal investigation, but this issue is so
    important that it warrants this kind of attention. However, we
    must take care to ensure that we do not put the Commandant of
    the Marine Corps in the position of making statements that
    later could be alleged as exercising unlawful command influence
    and therefore disrupting the criminal investigation.
        The nonconsensual posting of explicit photos of female
    marines on a public website is repugnant and just plain wrong
    and inexcusable. All of us who have had the privilege of
    serving in uniform know the value of a cohesive unit where all
    Members of the unit looked out for each other and took care of
    each other. I can only imagine the harm that this type of
    behavior can have on morale and unit cohesion. Our
    servicemembers must have confidence that their fellow
    servicemembers always have their back. There simply is no room
    for behavior that humiliates and degrades a fellow
    servicemember.
        In my view, the Marine Corps must and will attack this
    problem with the vigor that the Marine Corps has demonstrated
    time and time again. It should begin with a good, thorough
    investigation to establish provable facts that can be used to
    hold offenders accountable for criminal conduct. I will be
    anxious to hear whether the NCIS has the resources and
    expertise to fully and completely investigate this matter. If
    they do not, we need to help them get those resources and that
    expertise. Once the investigation is complete, commanders will
    have the task of taking appropriate action based on the
    findings of the investigation.
        Aside from the immediate issue of marine misconduct on the
    Marines United website, the Marine Corps must also address the
    culture that allowed or facilitated that misconduct. I will be
    interested in hearing about actions the Marine Corps will take
    to improve the culture, especially in a Marine Corps that is in
    the process of fully integrating female marines into its ranks.
        With that, Mr. Chairman, I look forward to our briefings,
    both the open and closed sessions. Thank you.
        Chairman McCain. Thank you.
        We will begin with you, Secretary Stackley. Welcome.

     STATEMENT OF HONORABLE SEAN J. STACKLEY, ACTING SECRETARY OF
                                THE NAVY

        Mr. Stackley. Chairman McCain, Ranking Member Reed, Members
    of the Armed Services Committee, thank you for this hearing.
        Discovery and investigation these past several weeks into
    the toxic, predatory behavior harbored by the website, Marines
    United, has uncovered a grievous breakdown of good order and
    discipline, a violation of our core values, and what amounts to
    an insider threat. Some unknown number of marines or former
    marines, when denigrating their fellow marines, undermined the
    very honor and integrity and unit cohesion that has long
    underpinned the strength of the Corps.
        Marines United is a bell ringer. Beyond the emotions that
    surround this issue, anger, revulsion, frustration, we are
    committed, dedicated to fixing this issue and our immediate
    actions are threefold.
        First, we must take care of those marines who have been
    victimized by this behavior, counseling, legal services, and
    beyond in strict confidence inside and outside the chain of
    command. Every resource will be made available to those seeking
    support.
        We are prosecuting the matter of Marines United to the full
    extent of our abilities, and we will hold accountable those who
    have violated the standards, going by law, by policy, by code.
    Of the 30,000 members reported to be on Marines United, we do
    not know how many are, in fact, Active Duty marines, much less
    how many in fact participated in this denigrating affair.
    Getting to the facts will take time, but the Navy Criminal
    Investigative Service is working every lead, every path
    available to overcome the challenges we are running into posed
    by nameless, faceless predators and cyber bullying on social
    media.
        Perhaps most importantly, we will get at the root
    underlying issues in order to eradicate this cancer. The task
    force formed by the Commandant is central to this effort which
    today involves senior officers and enlisted. We will expand to
    include the expertise called upon by this problem and in the
    long run will involve commitment of every tier of leadership
    within the Marine Corps. This, again, will be a long road, but
    we are on the road for good and we will share with the
    committee our efforts, our course, our progress on that course
    as we move forward.
        Every young man and woman who takes the oath to support and
    defend our Constitution, who puts on the uniform and puts their
    life on the line to defend our way of life here at home is owed
    utmost trust and respect by every American. Any breach of that
    trust and respect within the very ranks of the Services
    themselves must be dealt with immediately, decisively,
    unceasingly before, like a cancer, it steals from us our
    strength, our spirit, our honor. We will be immediate,
    decisive, and unceasing in fixing this problem and in defeating
    this attack on our core values.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to addressing your
    questions.
        Chairman McCain. Thank you.
        General Neller?

    STATEMENT OF GENERAL ROBERT B. NELLER, USMC, COMMANDANT OF THE
                       UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS

        General Neller. Chairman McCain, Ranking Member Reed,
    senators of the committee, normally I appear before this
    committee to take an opportunity to tell you about the
    extraordinary actions and things that your marines are doing at
    home and around the globe. Today, however, is different. I am
    here to discuss the details of some truly disturbing and
    unacceptable actions that have allegedly been committed on
    social media primarily against the women of our Marine Corps.
        The recent release of information first uncovered by a
    combat-wounded marine reporter about the online posting of
    explicit and lewd pictures and even more troubling derogatory,
    demeaning, and in some cases sexually violent comments about
    female marines are why we are here and what we are going to
    talk about. Such actions pervert our culture and bring me here.
        As I am sure you did, I received this recent news regarding
    actions on the Marines United Facebook site with a mixture of
    emotions: disappointment, shock, anger, disgust, and outrage.
    The Marine Corps I have served for over 40 years has a problem
    and we intend to fix it.
        I struggle with labeling the problem we face. Some say we
    have a problem with our culture. Some say it is an insider
    threat. My natural inclination is to resist this because I
    believe in my heart the Marine Corps culture is based on our
    core values of honor, courage, and commitment. It represents
    who we are. The online behavior of some individuals, whether
    they are currently serving marines, former marines, or others
    who simply wandered in, have attacked our Marine Corps values,
    our ethos.
        We draw our strength from the team. Everything we do in
    training from day one is focused on the team and not the
    individual. But some seem to have forgotten that every member
    of our team is an equal and a valued member of our Corps. Every
    marine has a role to play. Every marine who earns our title
    commands the respect of their fellow marines.
        We proudly advertise the transformation that occurs at
    recruit training and officer candidate school, first by the
    methods by which we recruit, train, and transform young men and
    women from citizens to marines, but the transformation is not
    perfect in all cases. Some marines can lose their way and
    disregard or fail to comprehend our ethos. At every level of
    leadership, we must do a better job of sustaining this
    transformation and eliminating any behavior that targets any
    individual as less than a teammate or a fellow marine. We must
    attack any behavior that has a corrosive effect on good order
    and discipline of our Corps.
        I came in the Marine Corps with the problems of the 1970s
    shortly after Vietnam. Drug use and race relations were tearing
    us apart. Some of you were there then and you remember this.
    Our Commandant at the time, General Lewis Wilson, took a firm
    stance to get our Corps back to true north. He improved our
    recruiting standards and made it his personal mission to
    address those who cannot or do not want to measure up to our
    standards who needed to find another place to perform.
        I believe we face a similar situation today. The vast
    majority of marines, past and present, are American citizens
    who are good and decent people. They are as upset by the
    behavior represented on Marines United as you and I. I am
    calling on all marines to take a stand against this destructive
    conduct, to take a stand and support and respect every marine,
    to demonstrate to the American people who we really are, that
    we embody our ethos of honor, courage, and commitment.
        When any Marine unit goes into action, there are never
    bystanders. We all have a role to play. We are all to be fully
    committed to the mission. The same is true in garrison and the
    barracks back here at home. There can be no bystanders. We must
    all be engaged as teammates. Every marine has a role to play to
    ensure that our team remains strong.
        I would ask to take this opportunity to speak directly to
    every female in our Marine Corps, past and present. I know I am
    asking a lot of you right now, but I ask you to trust the
    leadership of the Marine Corps to take action and correct this
    problem. I ask you to trust me personally as your Commandant
    and when I say I am outraged that many of you have not been
    given the same respect when you earn the title ``marine.'' I
    know you are not asking to be labeled as victims, for anyone's
    pity. I know you would find that as insulting as the recent
    behavior and comments on social media. I know what you do for
    our Corps, for our team, and what you have contributed, to
    include during the past 16 years of combat in Iraq and
    Afghanistan. I know when you earn the eagle, globe, and anchor,
    you wear it as proudly as the marines you are.
        To the men in our Corps serving today and those who no
    longer wear the uniform, you are still marines. I need you to
    ask yourselves, how much more do the females of our Corps have
    to do to be accepted? Was it enough when Major Megan McClung
    was killed by an IED [Improvised Explosive Device] in Ramadi or
    Captain Jennifer Harris killed when her helicopter was shot
    down while she was flying blood from Baghdad to Fallujah
    surgical or Corporals Jennifer Parcell and Hally Ann Sherrod
    and Ramona Valdez, all killed by the hands of our enemies? What
    is it going to take for you to accept these marines as marines?
        I am committed to making this right, and I need all marines
    equally committed. We all have to commit to getting rid of this
    perversion in our culture. Enough is enough.
        So, ladies and gentlemen of the committee, we will take
    action to correct this stain on our Marine Corps. I have no
    illusions or delusions about how difficult that will be, but
    that does not mean we are going to stand by and watch it. It
    cannot go on anymore.
        I am prepared to answer your questions.
        Chairman McCain. General Neller, I want to thank you for
    that statement. I think it is strong and it is powerful and,
    frankly, it is reassuring to this committee about your
    commitment.
        Sergeant Major Green, do you have any comments to add to
    the Commandant's remarks?

    STATEMENT OF SGTMAJMC RONALD L. GREEN, USMC, SERGEANT MAJOR OF
                            THE MARINE CORPS

        Sergeant Major Green. Good morning, Chairman. Senator
    McCain, Ranking Member Senator Reed, and all Members of the
    Congress. I want to thank you all for allowing the Marines
    Corps to come before you today, the leadership, and explain
    exactly what we are doing.
        I did not prepare any words, but I can tell you that no one
    is more outraged than the leadership you see sitting before you
    today. This tears at the very fibers that bond us together as
    we fight for the Nation's freedom and liberty.
        We are protecting our victims. We are allowing the legal
    system to go forward so that we can bring those who have
    committed these crimes before the Commandant, the leadership,
    and hold them accountable. We are researching our policies and
    reinforcing the gaps. I am prepared to do whatever it takes to
    protect not just enlisted marines, but all marines and their
    dependents and those who serve under the eagle, globe, and
    anchor.
        Thank you for the opportunity.
        Chairman McCain. Well, thank you, sir, and thank you for
    your outstanding leadership.
        General Neller, has the Marine Corps embarked on an effort
    to communicate with and assist identifiable victims?
        General Neller. Sir, as far as the Marines United, there
    have been a small number of victims or people who have claimed
    that they were targeted by this website. And so we are talking
    to those, and NCIS is working investigations on those that they
    are aware of. But the number is too small. Again, we need
    others to come forward.
        Chairman McCain. What are you doing to encourage others to
    come forward, General?
        General Neller. This hearing is an opportunity to ask
    marines to come forward, not just marines that may have been
    victimized but marines that have been aware of this. I think
    that is starting to happen. We are getting information from
    other men, other male marines, that they know about this, and
    they are, as I stated, I believe as upset about this as we are.
        We had a press conference the other day where, again, I
    asked marines for their help. We have gone out to the
    leadership, told them the path where they can direct marines. I
    have directed commanders to go out and talk to their marines
    about this and directed them that if anyone comes forward, they
    can be directed toward their victim advocate, to their
    chaplain, to their victim legal counsel, or the chain of
    command, and they are going to forward this. We put a site up
    on our marines.mil webpage. If you are aware of any actions of
    this or someone is being bullied or harassed in cyberspace, to
    contact this certain number or an email address or their chain
    of command. I know NCIS has done the same. So we have gone out
    in any possible forum that we can to ask marines to come
    forward if they are either a victim here or they are aware of
    any of this behavior.
        Chairman McCain. You are assuring them that there would be
    no reprisal or retaliation?
        General Neller. They have my word that the leadership will
    not take retribution against them. I know that is a big issue.
    I have talked to some of the Members here about that. That is
    why I know it is difficult because I cannot necessarily
    guarantee--social media--one of the insidious natures of this
    problem is there is a certain level of anonymity out there. So
    if you were to push back on any of this, you immediately get
    attacked by the crowd and they are anonymous. I think for many
    of us who do not participate in that type of behavior, that is
    foreign to us.
        I will admit this is something--I am not a social media
    person. We use it to message marines and talk about the good
    things that marines do. But sites like this are not a place
    that I would think any of us would frequent, even for the
    altruistic and positive things, as you mentioned, Chairman,
    that Marines United was set up to do, how veterans deal with
    whatever issues they had coming back from the fight.
        So there is risk. I cannot protect people necessarily on
    social media. I can ensure that the chain of command is going
    to take action, and I can direct commanders to take any
    allegations that anybody makes. They are going to take them and
    follow them through and report them to NCIS or do an
    investigation. But our ability to--and this is not an excuse--
    manage what happens on social media, if it remains up, is an
    issue.
        I will say, though, that when we have seen this type of
    behavior and we have gone to the organizations that host this,
    they have, in general, been very helpful with us with taking
    these sites down. But when they do that, what we have also seen
    is then they move. I would prefer to get into it in the closed
    discussion about what the legalities are about certain things
    that happen in cyberspace because there are certain things
    about the law that are not always going to be helpful to us
    getting accountability. Again, that is not an excuse, but I
    think there are some things that we may need your help with.
        Chairman McCain. I agree.
        Secretary Stackley, can commanders use the Uniform Code of
    Military Justice (UCMJ), to hold personnel accountable for
    transmitting, receiving, viewing, or possessing photos without
    the consent of the person in your view?
        Mr. Stackley. Yes, sir. Now what we are trying to do is
    actually run to ground each instance, each example that we can
    find where we have the perpetrator, we have the evidence that
    frankly has been preserved so we can hold them accountable in
    accordance with articles 120 and 134 of the UCMJ.
        Chairman McCain. Obviously, General Neller pointed out one
    of the challenges we face, and that is of these websites just
    morphing over to another site after they are shut down.
        Mr. Stackley. Yes, sir. I used the term ``nameless/
    faceless.'' It is very difficult to identify the individuals
    that are on these websites. As we work with the owners of the
    websites, we have to deal with First Amendment rights. We have
    to deal with Privacy Act issues. So we are pushing it as far as
    we can to get every piece of evidence that we can find. A key
    to this, as the Commandant described, is to have individuals
    come forward. So we are trying to reach out, not just get the
    word out for people to come forward, but also provide an
    environment where they feel safe and secure to bring their case
    forward.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Reed?
        Senator Reed. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        I would just like to ask one question because I know there
    is great interest of my colleagues in the public session, and
    then we have a closed session later.
        General Neller, this is not the first experience recently
    the Marine Corps has had. In 2013, there was cyber bullying of
    female marines. How did you react to that issue, and what
    lessons have you learned, and how are you applying those
    lessons to this situation?
        General Neller. Senator, we went back and looked at that
    and looked at all the actions. I can give you a long list of
    things that we did as far as addressing sexual assault,
    changing values-based training at all our different levels of
    training. There was a policy written about conduct on social
    media in 2010, but it was not focused on this type of thing. We
    are in the process of actually issuing out today an updated
    policy on conduct on social media and what is acceptable and
    not acceptable and what is a violation of a lawful order or
    article 134 or article 120(c).
        So there was a lot of training that we did, but looking
    back at it--I mean, I can only speak for myself, Senator. We
    were focused on the issues of sexual assault which were very
    important at that time. I do not think we got at the social
    media thing to the level that we are going to get at it now.
        I put myself in that category. I went back and I thought
    about all the stuff we talked about and all the things that the
    Commandant, General Amos, did with the Heritage brief, about
    our values, about how we treat each other, the things we have
    done since about discussing alcohol abuse and protecting what
    you have earned, and even the message I put out after the first
    of this year stating we need to treat each other better. But
    when I wrote that, I did not have in my mind this particular--
    so I have no excuse for that. We were dealing with a lot of
    things.
        So now this is front and center. I think part of it is I
    think victims were afraid to come forward because if they came
    forward, they were going to be attacked tenfold on social media
    again. I think for those that do not participate in this
    domain, I think we are ignorant. I am not ignorant anymore. I
    am trainable and I accept responsibility for that. But we were
    focused on other things that we were trying to get at. I do not
    think social media was absent from that, but I do not think it
    got front and center like it should have at the time.
        Senator Reed. Thank you very much.
        Again, I think we all recognize the seriousness of this
    issue. It goes to the very heart of the Corps, not just the
    Marine Corps but every service. You cannot have individual
    marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen, coast guardsmen who are
    marginalized because of gender or any other characteristic. So
    we have a lot of work to do, both you and the United States
    Congress.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Inhofe?
        Senator Inhofe. General Neller, the first quote that I
    heard from you was that those who are involved will be held
    accountable. I know your background. I know you. I have every
    confidence that is what is going to happen. I have no
    questions.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Shaheen?
        Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Secretary Stackley, a November 2015 report from the
    Government Accountability Office (GAO) found the Department of
    Defense measures to assess the effectiveness of its sexual
    assault prevention efforts were not fully developed and missing
    key attributes. Can you tell me if anything has been done since
    that GAO report to address that?
        Mr. Stackley. Yes, ma'am.
        Senator Shaheen. Can you tell me specifically what?
        Mr. Stackley. Okay. There are a list of initiatives that
    have gone out in terms of first identifying cases of sexual
    assault. This gets right down to everything from anonymous
    surveys, to interviews, to capturing reports and then running
    reports to ground.
        I could provide examples of things that have been done, but
    when we look at the statistics and the results, what we are
    trying to do is correlate measures that were taken with results
    that we are getting. Frankly, we are challenged to do that. The
    statistics move around, and within the Department of the Navy,
    within our SAPRO [Sexual Assault Prevention and Response
    Office], I am trying to correlate what actions are we taking
    that are giving us positive results that we have confidence in
    so in fact we can grow those actions versus a number of
    initiatives that we cannot quite correlate to the results that
    we are looking for.
        Senator Shaheen. Well, I would argue that one of the
    challenges is that people are not being held accountable in a
    way that sends a very strong message to others that they serve
    with that this is unacceptable behavior.
        General Neller, according to a 2014 RAND military workplace
    study, the Marine Corps has the highest rate of sexual assault
    among the service branches. I know that we are not talking
    about sexual assault directly as we often think about the
    definition in this scandal, but I do believe there is a
    correlation between the two. So can you just respond to why you
    think that is?
        I appreciate your statements and the statements of everyone
    here about needing to address this issue, but understand that
    this committee has heard those kinds of statements for as long
    as I have been on the committee and I think much longer. So it
    is hard to believe that something is really going to be done
    when we hear this repeated again and again and we see these
    kinds of situations again and again. So why should we believe
    that it is going to be different this time than it has been in
    the past?
        General Neller. As I stated earlier, Senator, this
    particular issue--I mean, we can talk about sexual assault and
    the numbers. As the Secretary said, we have struggled. I had
    expected that the numbers would go up when we started our
    training back in 2013 to try to get after sexual assault per
    se--and I have talked to Senator Gillibrand, Senator McCaskill
    about this--and that they would flatten out and then they would
    go down. They flattened out but they have not gone down.
        I can give you some other statistics. I can track every one
    of these allegations to show you how it was culminated in some
    sort of action or no action.
        Why is it going to be different now with the social media I
    think we addressed the action of individuals which is sexual
    assault or bullying, but I think the bigger issue is within the
    culture, we have just a fact with all marines that all marines
    are marines. The female marines that are there are a small
    group in our Corps, and for whatever reason, there are still
    some number--and I do not think this is separate from the
    sexual assault issue, but this issue of denigration of women,
    objectification of women, misogyny, however you want to
    articulate it is just bad behavior. It is tied to the way that
    some group of male marines look at women in the Marine Corps.
        I think we can fix that. I think we can fix it by holding
    those accountable who do not want to accept the fact and we
    make it part of--we got to tell commanders, hey, look, there
    are things you can do out here within the UCMJ if those
    parameters are met. But this is a very difficult problem.
        On the sexual assault thing, I am not going to give up on
    any of this. I still think part of our--I mean, I could give
    you the demographics and that is an excuse. You know, the
    percentage of the marines and what their ages are and all that
    and the numbers. We are a young force. Okay. But they are
    marines and they are expected to conduct themselves at a higher
    level. You expect that. I expect that.
        I think that alcohol abuse is another problem that we are
    going to have to deal with that I think we will get after that.
    But this is all about our leaders going out there, setting the
    example, and expecting the behavior is going to be in a certain
    way.
        Is it going to be different? It has got to be different.
    That is my charge to myself. I have got to go out there and, as
    the senior marine, say this is the way it is going to be, and
    if you are not going to get along--if you have a problem with
    this, then, as I mentioned in the video I did, you need to ask
    yourself do you really want to be a marine. If that is not
    going to change it, then--I believe it is. I have heard enough
    from enough men and women that are seniors out there that they
    realize--why they did not realize it before I have no excuse--
    that we are going to change and that we can change. All I would
    ask is an opportunity to address this. I know you have heard
    that before, but that is my ask.
        Senator Shaheen. Thank you, General. I would suggest that
    you use the term ``survivor'' rather than victim for those
    people who have been attacked.
        General Neller. Yes, ma'am.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Fischer?
        Senator Fischer. General, this behavior has to change. It
    has gone on for too long, and we need to see those changes.
        You spoke about social media and the lack of recognition
    that you had on what is going on on social media. The Corps
    does have a policy on social media. Is that correct?
        General Neller. Yes, ma'am, we do.
        Senator Fischer. You have spoken today about making changes
    to that policy. Do you have any ideas on how that policy needs
    to be changed? What would make a new policy different and more
    effective at this point?
        General Neller. I believe the policy that we revised is
    focused more on certain behaviors such as the one we are here
    to discuss today on social media and that to tell all marines
    that these types of things are unacceptable. They are not part
    of the inner marine and they are also punishable under the
    Uniform Code of Military Justice. The previous policy said
    that, but it did not say it quite as directly.
        But it is also going to take leadership to go out and
    reinforce that, to not just hide--not hide, but to use a piece
    of paper. But they are going to have to go out and sell it.
    They are going to have to talk about it. They are going to have
    to make commanders and senior enlisted understand that this has
    got to change.
        Our marines--they use social media. They use it for a lot
    of good things, as was mentioned by the Chairman. We use social
    media to tell the story of the Marines, and that is fine. But
    marines have got to understand that using the social media to
    degrade, denigrate, be disrespectful to another marine is not
    just not who we are but it is illegal and that if you are found
    doing this, then you are potentially subject to the Uniform
    Code of Military Justice.
        Senator Fischer. I assume marines are educated on the
    current policy?
        General Neller. They are, but I do not believe--I cannot
    tell you, Senator, that it is done with enough time or
    reinforcement. We start talking to marines about the values and
    ethos of the inner marine when they are still waiting to go to
    recruit training. Whether or not there are specific discussions
    about this type of thing, I cannot say to you that it is done
    in a manner that is satisfactory to me both in the quality of
    the discussion and the quantity. But it will be.
        Senator Fischer. Have there been any punishments for
    marines who have violated the current policy that you have?
        General Neller. Senator, I cannot give you a specific quote
    that this individual did X and was found guilty at Y. I would
    ask to take that for the record and get back to you. I asked
    that question myself. But much of this type of behavior should
    be held, could be held accountable at a nonjudicial punishment,
    which is an administrative action, and I do not have the data
    to give you that answer.
        [The information referred to follows:]

        To date (since the report of misconduct involving members the
    Marines United Facebook group), there have been at least 116 subjects,
    suspects, or persons of interest (hereinafter, collectively,
    ``subjects'') reported for alleged online social media misconduct
    involving 22 non-DOD civilians and 94 Marines as subjects. Of the 94
    cases in which the Marine Corps maintained at least administrative
    jurisdiction, 68 cases have reached disposition and 26 remain in a
    pending status. In terms of severity of action, there have been guilty
    findings at 5 special courts-martial and 1 summary court-martial; 10
    cases adjudicated via non-judicial punishment; 5 administrative
    separations; 25 formal adverse administrative actions; and, in 22
    cases, no formal administrative action. In each of these cases
    commanders have exercised their independent and unfettered disciplinary
    disposition authority in reaching their decisions. The investigation
    into the Marines United Facebook Group involved a review of more than
    120,000 images from over 170 other websites. Investigators determined
    that while there were more than 22,000 images with persons depicted who
    had a possible Department of Defense affiliation, there were
    approximately 7,867 images with persons depicted who had a possible
    Marine Corps affiliation. Employing technology to include facial
    recognition software, investigators determined that only 68 potential
    victims were identifiable of the 7,867 images. Further, investigators
    confirmed 31 of the 68 potential victims, and only 8 confirmed victims
    were able to identify a subject. These subjects are factored into the
    116 subjects reported for investigation and disposition.

        Mr. Stackley. If I could add. We have been able to track
    individuals who have used government computers to access these
    types of websites, and then we are able to identify the
    individual and clearly bring punishment to bear.
        Senator Fischer. That was my next question. Were government
    computers used to access these websites or to post anything on
    them?
        Mr. Stackley. We have not been able to find any incidents
    of government computers being used to access or post, but we
    are continuing with the investigation.
        Senator Fischer. General, how well do we understand the
    membership of this group and how it breaks down between former
    marines and Active marines and also retired marines? Do you
    have any information on that right now?
        General Neller. Senator, all I can tell you is we believe
    the numbers of individuals that belong to Marines United was
    about 30,000 on their public facing Facebook page. How many of
    them are Active or former or other services or civilians I do
    not have the answer to that. The NCIS is looking into that.
        The place where these individuals went to post these
    pictures and make their comments was a link to a server hosted
    by another Internet provider, which has since been taken down.
    The numbers that we believe had access to this site was much,
    much smaller than 30,000. I would ask for NCIS to give you that
    number in the closed session.
        Senator Fischer. Thank you.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Gillibrand?
        Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        General Neller, the military, the Marines, have been aware
    of online victimization, online exploitation of other marines
    since 2013 because there is a letter here from Jackie Speier to
    Chuck Hagel and General Amos with screenshots. So there is no
    mystery that this has been going on for a very long time. It
    was right in front of you and the command to do something about
    it since 2013.
        [The information referred to follows:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        We have countless victims who have come forward, and they
    are not just being harassed online. Once their name, face,
    where they are stationed is posted, do you think the harassment
    ends online? It does not. I spoke to a marine yesterday. Excuse
    me. I spoke to a civilian yesterday who has been continued to
    be harassed in her community because her ex-boyfriend exploited
    her online.
        So I have to say when you say to us it has got to be
    different, that rings hollow. I do not know what you mean when
    you say that. Why does it have to be different? Because you all
    of a sudden feel that it has to be different?
        Who has been held accountable? I very much align myself
    with Senator Fischer's comments. Who has been held responsible?
    Have you actually investigated and found anybody guilty? If we
    cannot crack Facebook, how are we supposed to be able to
    confront Russian aggression and cyber hacking throughout our
    military?
        It is a serious problem when we have members of our
    military denigrating female marines who will give their life to
    this country in the way they have with no response from
    leadership. I can tell you your answers today are
    unsatisfactory. They do not go far enough.
        I would like to know what do you intend to do to the
    commanders who are responsible for good order and discipline.
    All of this behavior is in violation of article 120 and article
    134 as so stated. They are violating the Code of Criminal
    Justice. Why are commanders who have asked for all
    responsibility to deal with sexual assault and these behaviors
    for the 5 years this committee has been focused on this issue--
    you have demanded that you maintain control of all these
    issues. But where is the accountability for failure? Who is
    being held accountable for doing nothing since 2013? Who? Which
    commander?
        I am very concerned that this is part of a culture that is
    resulting in the high levels of sexual assault. We know from
    the fiscal year 2014 SAPRO report that 60 percent of men and 58
    percent of women who experienced sexual harassment or gender
    discrimination in the previous year throughout all the Services
    indicated that a supervisor or unit leader was one of the
    people engaged in the violations. That is a problem with our
    command.
        So if you are dedicated to fixing the culture of the
    marines and all the Services, what do you plan to do to hold
    commanders responsible who fail to get this done?
        General Neller. Senator, I understand and share your
    concern. If I were aware or I would expect that any commander
    who was aware of someone who has reported any allegation of
    anything, but particularly something as serious as sexual
    assault, and the chain of command did not do anything, that
    that commander would be held accountable.
        I do not have any statistics for you on that. I can tell
    you that of all those individuals who have come forward with
    allegations of sexual assault, what has happened to individuals
    that the charges ended up with some sort of process and ended
    up with an adjudication, but those are just numbers.
        As you clearly and rightfully state, this is a problem with
    our culture. I mean, I do not have a good answer for you. I am
    not going to sit here and duck around this thing. I am not. I
    am responsible. I am the Commandant. I own this. You know, you
    have heard it before, but we are going to have to change how we
    see ourselves and how we treat each other. That is a lame
    answer, but ma'am, that is the best I can tell you right now.
    We have got to change and that is on me.
        Senator Gillibrand. My time has expired.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Cotton?
        Senator Cotton. I was very disappointed and troubled to
    read this news recently, as were all Members of this committee
    and most Americans no doubt. I am reassured by the comments of
    General Neller and the Sergeant Major this morning about how
    seriously they take it and the gravity with which they treat
    it.
        General Neller, you mentioned that there are 30,000 members
    of this group. You do not have the breakdown of Active versus
    Reserve versus retired. Any indication yet of the breakdown
    between marines, NCOs [non-commissioned officers], and
    officers?
        General Neller. Not in specific numbers. I think we are
    going to get that information, Senator. I am not going to
    speculate on what the level of officer involvement is or is
    not. But I think the NCIS folks can tell you that. I do not
    know the number. I would be speculating. I would not say this
    is--it is highly unlikely this is just enlisted. It does not
    really matter.
        I would just remind, not to stick up for Marines United,
    but the great majority of people that went to this site--and
    there are other sites. We find sites all the time. We are
    looking out there and NCIS is looking, and people are telling
    us about other sites. So Marines United is not alone in this
    despicable, disgusting behavior.
        But I think eventually we will know the breakdown, not just
    who was a member of Marines United but who went to this other
    link and participated in this behavior.
        Mr. Stackley. Sir, if I could add.
        Senator Cotton. Yes, Mr. Stackley.
        Mr. Stackley. To date, we are dealing with cooperative
    information. In other words, we are trying to draw
    information--short of probable cause in which we can seize the
    information, we are gaining it cooperatively. NCIS has opened
    up a tip line. They have received as of yesterday 53 calls on
    that tip line that is opening up other avenues to help to
    identify individuals but also to identify these other sites
    that the Commandant has referred to.
        In my opening statement, I called this a bell ringer. This
    is a bell ringer. We are not going to go back. We need to dive,
    plumb the depths of this issue to understand how far, how wide
    it is, and then working up and down the chain of command,
    whether you call it culture, whether you call it good order and
    discipline, get not just every marine, every man and woman in
    uniform to understand what our standards are, what is and is
    not acceptable on one hand and, on the other hand, prosecute
    these other avenues where this behavior is taking place to the
    extent of our ability. We are not going to go backwards.
        Senator Cotton. We have spoken at this hearing this morning
    quite a bit so far about law and policy, and those are
    important questions. I want to speak about the expectations we
    have for the young men and women we have in uniform putting
    aside law and policy.
        Back when I was a company grade officer and we had to do
    safety briefs every Friday afternoon to ensure that if our
    soldiers misbehaved on the weekend, we could tell our chain of
    command that we had ordered them not to do so. Rather than
    getting into every single detail that soldiers might do over
    the weekend, I would simply say obey your general orders and
    the law and be a good soldier, a good citizen, and a good man.
    I assume that your company grade officers and company grade
    NCOs do something similar on weekends or before passes.
        Putting aside the requirements of law and policy, General
    Neller, do you believe every marine should know that this kind
    of conduct violates the spirit and the ethic of the Corps?
        General Neller. Senator, you would think, after all the
    discussion and all the training and things that we have done,
    that people would understand that this type of behavior was
    unacceptable. But apparently whatever we have done or tried to
    do has not worked or we have not been clear or people think
    that they can go on social media with some persona or avatar
    character. But as Senator Gillibrand rightfully stated, I mean,
    some people use their full name and their unit, and because
    they participate, the frustration is what is a crime and what
    is not as opposed to boorish, stupid behavior. This is beyond
    that. So that is where we are in working through that right
    now.
        Yes. I believe even if they do not, they should now. I am
    going down Camp Lejeune tomorrow. I am going to talk to people
    and make sure they try to make this as crystal clear as I
    possibly can.
        Senator Cotton. Sergeant Major, if I could just ask you one
    question.
        Chairman McCain. Your time has expired.
        Senator Blumenthal?
        Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        You used the words, Commandant Neller, ``despicable and
    disgusting.'' That certainly is a feeling that everybody on
    this panel shares with you. I think also many of us share the
    passion and impatience that Senator Gillibrand expressed very
    powerfully because there have been instances in the past, and
    your acknowledgement that perhaps the past violations of trust
    and law have not been addressed sufficiently aggressively may
    give us some comfort here. But I think we are all going to
    watch closely and demand from you not just the words that you
    have given us, which we trust, but also action which speaks
    louder than words.
        Do you know personally of any commanders who had knowledge
    of this site before it was disclosed?
        General Neller. No, Senator, I do not.
        Senator Blumenthal. Do you believe that the same kind of
    aggressive discipline should be focused on the chain of
    command, as well as on the perpetrators who were involved in
    the immediate conduct, if they had knowledge?
        General Neller. I do.
        Senator Blumenthal. Will you assure us that you will take
    aggressive action against them?
        General Neller. I do.
        Senator Blumenthal. You mentioned earlier that you thought
    that nonjudicial punishment was appropriate for the marines who
    may have been involved or at least many of them. Would you
    agree that the Uniform Code of Military Justice should be
    applied as aggressively as possible in these instances and that
    violation should be prosecuted to the full extent of penalties
    that can be achieved?
        General Neller. Let me clarify my comment. When I said
    nonjudicial punishment has applicability, it does, but whether
    that is the level at which these allegations are adjudicated is
    up to the chain of command. All I was trying to imply is that
    that is a tool available to commanders. If the act is more
    egregious, then there would be other venues, more serious
    venues available to commanders.
        Senator Blumenthal. Would you agree that the chain of
    command may be unable to prosecute as aggressively as possible
    if in fact there are allegations within the chain of command
    that ought to be pursued?
        General Neller. I do not think that should make a
    difference. I mean, it might cause a commander if someone or
    their subordinates was complicit in this, but a violation is a
    violation. We are all accountable.
        Senator Blumenthal. But that might make it more difficult
    for someone to take action against a fellow marine who was
    within the chain of command. Would there be some process even
    now under existing law? We have sought to reform or change it
    to make sure that there is accountability.
        General Neller. We select our commanders based on their
    skill and their ability and their potential to command. They
    have got to make the hard decisions. And so if that involves--
    we have all done it. If that involves disciplining somebody
    that is in our own chain of command or that you know, them that
    is what you do.
        Senator Blumenthal. Two articles of the Uniform Code of
    Military Justice have been mentioned, 120 and 134. Neither
    specifically prohibit cyber bullying. My thought has been that
    perhaps there ought to be a specific provision that is
    applicable to the conduct involved here which, in effect, is a
    form of cyber bullying. Would you support such a provision?
        General Neller. We have had discussions about whether or
    not the UCMJ has the ability to address this. To me, we have
    stated what behavior in cyberspace is acceptable, not
    acceptable. To me that has the weight of an article 92
    disobedience of an order. So 120(c) addresses specifically
    taking someone's picture without their permission and using it
    and 134 would address good order and discipline and those
    things. So I believe the tools are there if that is the level
    of punishment or administrative action you wanted to go to if
    the facts support that.
        But I think there may be some discussion about--I think
    that is something that we are going to get into with this task
    force whether there are provisions within the UCMJ that may
    need to be more specific about this particular type of
    potential offense because this is not new, but there have got
    to be some tools for commanders to be able to address this
    specifically.
        Mr. Stackley. Senator, if I could add. On cyber bullying,
    we hypothetically are talking about ways we could prosecute it
    through the UCMJ, but it has not been tested yet. Your question
    regarding is there value in getting into greater detailed
    specifics within a specific article, I think the task force
    which the Commandant has launched, I think that is central to
    one of the areas that they are, in fact, looking at. We need to
    keep it on the plate, and we need to come back to you with
    specific recommendations.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Ernst?
        Senator Ernst. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Those who participated in these disgusting and horrible
    actions have not only failed our Marine Corps, they have failed
    the men and women who wish to join your ranks and they have
    failed our country. I am not as eloquent as some of the other
    members on this panel. All I can do is express to you how
    disappointed I am. I am very disappointed.
        General Neller, I hope that you can convey the concerns you
    have delivered to this committee today directly to your
    marines, not through a press conference, not through your
    designees, but directly to as many marines as you possibly can.
    Implementing change to this type of behavior begins at the
    ground level, and you are a leader, sir.
        As reports continue to come in across the DOD [Department
    of Defense], it is clear that this seems to be Service-wide.
    This is Service-wide. We need a Service-wide approach to
    addressing this issue. This is a cultural problem not just in
    our military but society at large. Hearing that many
    individuals were not surprised about these reports disappoints
    me. Hearing that there may not be a way to hold many of the
    people that were involved in this accountable--that angers me.
        Illegal or not, members of our community need to know this
    type of activity creates a culture that leads to sexual
    assault. Those that sat complacently by as this unfolded from
    the NCOs to the officers are all contributing to this issue.
    There is no excuse, and you have stated that, General Neller. I
    appreciate that greatly. There is absolutely no excuse for
    this, especially for those who wear our Nation's uniform.
        The steps that you now take moving forward following this
    event will define each of us before this committee. Regardless
    of what legal or administrative action you are able to take, I
    hope this leads to you personally sitting down and you,
    Sergeant Major, as well and educating our marines.
        A social media handbook has been discussed by a number of
    folks here on the panel, but how many marines actually read
    that? How many sit down and read it? It is up to all of us to
    educate our marines.
        The Marine Corps has a high turnover rate. We have
    thousands of marines coming through every year, and we have to
    make all of them aware of what they represent. They need to
    know that the actions they take here at home and online can
    take away from the success of their brothers and their sisters
    in arms.
        This is absolutely an issue that impacts our entire
    society. It is an absolutely horrible issue impacting us, but
    it is one that we must stop. I say we. It is not just the
    Marine Corps. It is those of us who are sitting here today.
        We will be evaluating how to give you the right tools, the
    necessary tools to combat this issue, and absolutely you must
    hold those marines accountable.
        In the meantime, I hope that you will continue to evaluate
    what we need to do to combat this issue, not just in the Marine
    Corps but Service-wide, and what we need to do to impact
    society at large.
        Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Donnelly?
        Senator Donnelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The marines who did this have betrayed their fellow
    marines, and these women marines stood up and said they would
    put their lives on the line for this country and give them up,
    if necessary. This is the treatment that they got in return.
        But they have also betrayed those marines who fought in
    Anbar Province and Helmund Province, in the Gulf, in Vietnam
    and Korea and Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima who built the Corps inch by
    inch, step by step. These marines who have done this have
    disgraced themselves, but they also let down the Corps and all
    of those other marines who fought for our country to help
    create the Corps.
        I went online and found that there is already a Marines
    United 2.0 posting links to the same materials, that already
    has over 3,000 members. What can be done about this, and what
    does that say? General?
        General Neller. Sir, if the Marines United 2.0 is there for
    their original mandate to help veterans, that is fine. But if
    there is a link that takes anybody who can get access to a
    similar page where there are posted pictures of anybody, but
    more likely female marines, and when they are making
    commentary, we will go like we did before, and we will ask the
    provider to take it down. But that is where we find ourselves.
        Now, whether we can get the information or make them hold
    that data for us--you know, we have recently in this
    investigation with Marines United--NCIS recently got some more
    information, so that should allow us to get to that.
        But, again, we are addressing the symptom here. The problem
    is that anybody would even want to do this in the first place.
    That is the part--this does not make any sense to me. Okay,
    they are doing it. Why? What is it that makes anyone feel that
    they are going to make themselves feel better by being
    degrading about any individual, whether it be based on their
    gender or their race or their sexual preference? If they are,
    indeed, a marine or anybody--it does not matter--that is not
    who we are and what we do.
        So our folks now and with NCIS's help--we are out there
    looking and we are finding other sites. We go through the legal
    process. They go to the provider and ask them to take it down.
    I think NCIS can give you more information in the closed
    session because there are other sites out there. Marines 2.0 is
    just one. Again, some of them are legit and they do good or
    proper things for veterans or anybody that belongs. Others not
    so much. Not at all.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Sullivan?
        Senator Donnelly. I would suggest, General, that they are
    also disrespecting you.
        Chairman McCain. The gentleman's time has expired.
        Senator Sullivan?
        Senator Sullivan. Mr. Chairman, I believe he had a minute
    and 23 seconds left.
        Chairman McCain. Please proceed.
        Senator Donnelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        What I wanted to say is they are basically challenging you,
    General. They are thinking that they can get away with this.
    You are the Commandant of the Corps, and I think it is up to
    you--and I trust and believe you will tell them and show them
    that they are not bigger than the Corps, that they cannot treat
    their fellow marines like this.
        How can women marines feel that the Corps has their back?
    When a young woman makes a decision that, number one, she wants
    to serve the country and put her life on the line for us, why
    will she choose the Marines? How do we reinstate that trust
    that we have her back?
        General Neller. The only way we can, Senator, is through
    our actions and show that anyone who sticks their hand up to
    support and defend the Constitution of the United States and
    has the willingness to earn the title of marine is going to be
    a full-fledged member of the team like the two female marines
    sitting behind me here. We have got to make them believe it. We
    have got to earn. They do not just have to earn the title of
    marines. We have got to earn their belief that they are going
    to get the same opportunity as anybody else to compete and be
    the best person they can be. So I can sit here and say it. We
    have got to re-earn the trust and not just of them, this
    committee, and the American people. I understand that.
        Senator Donnelly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman McCain. My apologies, Senator Donnelly, for
    cutting you off.
        Senator Donnelly. Do not worry, sir.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Sullivan?
        Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I want to begin by thanking Senator Gillibrand for her
    calling for this hearing and her unfailing advocacy for women
    in the military.
        Like you, General, I am a father of three daughters and
    also spent a lot of my civilian career focused on combating the
    problem that Senator Ernst mentioned is a problem not only in
    the military, but across the country of domestic violence and
    sexual assault. I think Senator Gillibrand's focus on this
    benefits the military and the country.
        I also appreciate your and the Sergeant Major's opening
    statement to say you are going to take responsibility for this.
        I think like everybody on this committee, General, when I
    first read the news about the marines attacking and degrading
    other marines--it was what Senator Donnelly just mentioned--I
    was outraged, disgusted, embarrassed as a citizen, as a
    lawmaker, and as a marine. I am here in this capacity as a
    United States Senator, but earning the title of marine is the
    proudest personal achievement of my life. It always has been,
    always will be.
        You know, we talk about that there has been no more
    formidable fighting force in the world, but the Marine Corps in
    my view goes much deeper than that.
        I mentioned a story. Last year, I was walking down the
    street on Capitol Hill. There was a mom and two young kids, a
    boy and a girl, walking by me, and a group of eight or nine
    marines in PT [physical training] gear coming up strong,
    formidable, and they passed this family, and this mom looked at
    her kids and said those are marines. They are courageous. They
    are fearless, and they will do anything to protect our country
    and keep us safe. That is what mothers in the country are
    telling their kids.
        This goes way deeper than this. I believe that if the
    Marine Corps cannot prevent marines from attacking and
    degrading women marines, that the Marine Corps is going to lose
    what it means to the country, to the Marine Corps, to other
    marines.
        So, General, you talked a lot about a perversion of the
    culture. What do you mean by that?
        General Neller. Well, Senator, like you I believe all
    marines have a belief that our motto, semper fidelis, our core
    values of honor, courage, and commitment are what we are, and
    that everything that we have seen in this Marines United event
    is not. Anybody that is out there involved in this or any other
    site that are doing this--and as has been accurately pointed
    out, this is something that has been out there for some time. I
    do not know how they think they can reconcile the inner marine
    with this. I do not mentally see how you get from A to B.
        Senator Sullivan. One of the things about the Marine Corps
    and all Military Services, but particularly in the Marine
    Corps, there is a culture and it is part of what we do is we
    bring violence to the enemies of our Nation, and we are good at
    bringing violence upon the enemies of our Nation. Is it the
    perversion of the culture where the marines are actually
    bringing violence upon women marines? Is that not the
    perversion? The culture, which every marine who is honorable
    thinks this is a disgusting perversion?
        General Neller. I believe that is a very accurate
    description, Senator. Thank you for that.
        Senator Sullivan. Sergeant Major, can I ask you a question?
    You both have talked about boot camp and getting at this early.
    One of the things, as you know, that the Marine Corps does very
    well in boot camp is it focuses on the history of the Marine
    Corps. You walk out of boot camp, if you can make it, after 3
    months, and you know about Chosin Reservoir. You know about Iwo
    Jima. You know about all those things and you take pride in it.
        General, I thought your opening statement about referencing
    five marine women who were killed in action defending our
    Nation--do you think, Sergeant Major, that focusing on some of
    those issues with regard to our history in boot camp can start
    to set the culture on a more proper course to recognize that,
    hey, look at these. They are marines. Right? It does not matter
    if they are men or women. They died for their country. Could we
    do a better job of instilling that at the outset as we shape
    the outlook and minds and culture of these 18- and 20-year-old
    kids?
        Sergeant Major Green. Absolutely, sir. The task force that
    the Commandant has put together, led by the Assistant
    Commandant of the Marine Corps--we met a few days ago, and that
    is exactly where we are starting. We are going beyond that and
    starting at the delayed entry program. We are looking at
    everything we teach marines, and we have to understand within
    ourselves, in a 4-year enlistment 120,000 marines would have
    gone in and out of the Marine Corps. 120,000. We would have
    turned over two-thirds of the Marine Corps in a 4-year period.
        We need to step back after 15, 16 years of fighting and we
    are still in that fight and absolutely take a look at not only
    how we make marines from those who walk through the door and
    want to be something better themselves, but also how we retain
    marines and families with our ethos of honor, courage, and
    commitment.
        We are going to seriously take a look at that because the
    processes that worked yesterday--they are not working today
    because there are other societal ills that come through the
    door with every individual that comes in, that the tools that
    we have are not being as effective as they need to be today. So
    we are going to take a look from the recruiting of our marines
    until the time they leave the gates and also beyond that as to
    veteran support organizations out there, to take a look at our
    motto, ``once a marine, always a marine.'' Every marine that
    leaves out the door, tell them they are responsible for that
    eagle, globe, and anchor.
        There are some bad actors that have worn the eagle, globe,
    and anchor. They are determined to keep these things going, and
    we know this for a fact. We've got to do better with our ethos
    and find the tools, the ways and convince those that come
    through the gates and those who, like you said earlier, are
    thinking about coming through the gates, the moms and dads who
    are talking to their kids.
        I have a son at the Naval Academy. They left for spring
    break going to Orlando, and my wife is freaking. She is scared
    to death. I just sat down with the four boys in my basement and
    talked about this, talked about sexual assault, talked about
    the ethos of honor, courage, and commitment, the fact that one
    day they too are going to lead and they may lead in combat. But
    first they must lead back here in peacetime showing that they
    are worthy leaders and lead marines and sailors in combat.
        I have a 14-year-old daughter. I would like to be proud if
    my daughter said she wanted to be a marine, just like my son. I
    have to assure her I will leave the footprint, along with the
    Commandant, that provides a way of safety for not only my kids
    but all kids, sir.
        Senator Sullivan. Thank you.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Reed [presiding]. On behalf of Chairman McCain,
    Senator Kaine, please.
        Senator Kaine. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to the
    witnesses.
        This is, obviously, a very serious hearing, important to
    have it. I am the father of a marine. I employ a lot of marines
    in my office. My State is a State where every marine officer is
    trained, every marine security guard is trained, a lot of other
    marines are trained and serve honorably. I think I just can say
    on behalf of an awful lot of Virginians, there was a moment
    when the story broke that a lot of people's hearts sunk. A lot
    of people's stomachs were turned.
        This is absolutely critical to get right. You are
    completely aware of the work of this committee under the
    leadership of Senators Gillibrand, McCaskill, and others to
    tackle sexual assault in the military. It is still very much an
    open proposition on this committee because the question about
    whether sexual assault or other crimes should be treated within
    the Uniform Code of Military Justice or separately is something
    that we have resolved for now to try within the chain of
    command, but we are testing the evidence. We are looking at the
    data to determine if that was right or not. Many of us, if we
    conclude that we are not getting the results that we want, even
    those of us who have supported chain of command in the past,
    may conclude that it is just not sufficient.
        It would be tragic for the Marine Corps if that decision
    were to be made because of a belief that the Marine Corps' bad
    example would cause us to make that decision for all branches
    or the Marine Corps' bad example would cause us to make a
    decision that would be with respect to one branch of the
    service and not the others. So that is the weight of this
    matter in a body that is still really assessing whether the
    military, the Marine Corps, but the other branches have to
    tools that they need to tackle this problem.
        The Marine Corps does a great job of setting people aside
    who do not meet physical fitness standards. The Marine Corps
    has done a very intense amount of work to get into the
    redefinition of military MOSs [Military Occupational Specialty
    Codes] to provide gender-neutral standards that people need to
    meet to serve in MOSs. If the Marine Corps attacks this problem
    with the same degree of attention and passion that they attack
    an issue like physical standards, then you are going to solve
    it.
        But I think I speak for everybody up here out of a belief
    that we just have not seen that. We just have not seen that
    level.
        General, I want to ask you something. I thought your
    opening statement was very good, but I did have one question
    about it. Could you get your written statement--because we do
    not have copies of it here--and just read the first couple
    sentences of it again to me? Because I have one question about
    what you said.
        General Neller. The beginning, sir?
        Senator Kaine. Yes, just right at the very beginning.
        General Neller. Normally I appear before this committee to
    tell you about the extraordinary things your marines are doing
    at home and around the globe. But today is different. I am here
    today to discuss the details of some truly disturbing and
    unacceptable actions that have allegedly been committed on
    social media.
        Senator Kaine. Stop right there. ``That have allegedly been
    committed on social media.'' Are we talking about allegations
    here or are we talking about something that has happened? I
    mean, it might be an allegation as to who was involved, but
    this is not just an allegation about something that happened on
    social media. This is a fact. Is that not correct?
        Senator Reed. Senator, we are going to go into closed
    session. That might be a question that is most appropriate for
    a closed session.
        Senator Kaine. But I just think it is important to really
    make this clear. We are not talking about any individual in
    this hearing, and we should not for the reason that you stated.
    But if in the public hearing, this is described as alleged
    behavior, that there were allegations of something on social
    media, I do not think we are treating it with the seriousness
    we need to. This is not allegations about social media. This
    stuff happened. The General's testimony that Marines United is
    not unique and Senator Donnelly's description of Marines United
    2.0--I just think it is important that we not leave confusion
    with the public that we are here just talking about some
    allegations of something on social media. This happened. Now,
    who was involved--we are not going to get into that in an open
    session. But I would just put that to your attention going
    forward because we are talking about more than just allegations
    here.
        Secretary Stackley, let me just ask you in closing. I have
    a hard time believing that this massive sharing of information
    about women in the Marines would just be limited to this
    branch. Talk to me about investigations into whether this is
    also going on in the other branches of the military.
        Mr. Stackley. I cannot speak specifically for the other
    branches, but in the closed session, what I would recommend we
    discuss is some of the information that NCIS is arriving at
    through their tip line and the number of websites that indicate
    similar activity on other websites. That is very important.
        Senator Kaine. Then let me just ask it this way. Do you
    believe this activity is limited just to the Marine Corps?
        Mr. Stackley. No, sir.
        Senator Kaine. Thank you.
        Senator Reed. On behalf of Chairman McCain, Senator Tillis.
        Mr. Stackley. But I do not want to let it stop right there.
    This is at the top of Secretary Mattis' priority list working
    across the service departments to get at this issue. This is
    not being managed as an isolated issue for the Marine Corps as
    regards the Department of Defense. We recognize vulnerabilities
    here and we need to prosecute those.
        Senator Reed. Senator Tillis, please.
        Senator Tillis. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going to try and
    be brief so that we can get to the closed session.
        But I did want to get a clarification on the Marines
    United, really the structure of what we are talking about here
    because I think it is important and we can get into numbers
    later. But we are talking about 20,000 or 30,000 marines
    involved in a social media network, much of which is not the
    subject of the actions that we need to get to the bottom of.
        Can you give me some rough idea of the sub-page where the
    illicit activities were occurring, what that is as a percentage
    of the total people engaged in what would otherwise be positive
    social media interaction?
        General Neller. We believe there are about 30,000 total
    members of the page. How many Active, how many former, how many
    Reserve, how many other services----
        Senator Tillis. But in that page----
        General Neller. But in the link to take you to the separate
    drive, I have been told that the numbers were about 500.
        Senator Tillis. That is the important point because I think
    a lot of people think that there are some 30,000 marines
    engaged in this activity. The number is whatever it is, but it
    is a subset and what we think is a minor subset of the total
    page. I think that is very important.
        General Neller. I would understand and appreciate your
    comment, Senator, but it does not matter if there is one.
        Senator Tillis. I get it.
        Now I want to get to the next. For those who are in the
    subset and involved in these activities, what is the maximum
    penalty and discipline that they can receive if they are found
    to have been engaged at any level in that sub-site? Can they be
    court martialed? Can they be imprisoned? Can they be fined? In
    other words, what discipline are these folks subject to right
    now based on the current rules?
        General Neller. I think that would depend on what their
    level of involvement was and what they were doing.
        Senator Tillis. Let us say for the worst of the worst,
    whatever that may be, just hypothetical. For the worst of the
    worst, what potential penalty could they receive from this?
        Mr. Stackley. They could be court martialed, sir.
        Senator Tillis. What about a veteran, somebody who is no
    longer in Active service that is also engaged in this? I am
    assuming just based on the numbers of the Sergeant Major, there
    are going to be some of those involved. What consequence could
    they possibly suffer?
        General Neller. I think it depends on the State. Certain
    States have certain laws about this, and there are certain
    provisions about what is consent with the use of a picture.
        Senator Tillis. I would like to find out--you do not have
    to answer the question, but I want to look at other things that
    we need to do here to make this a very, very painful exercise
    for somebody caught guilty of doing this. As a member of the
    Veterans Committee, if there is something that we could do to
    disallow their benefits for bad behavior after they are
    discharged, those are the sorts of things that we have to do. A
    part of what you need to do is change the culture, and I
    believe that you will, General Neller. I think that we need to
    work on that, but we also need to make it a very frightening
    proposition for people going forward to be captured into this
    sort of activity.
        So I would like to get people to report back to me as a
    member of the Veterans Committee, as the chair of the Personnel
    Subcommittee, what more do we need to do to make this a very
    frightening proposition for somebody to get tempted into doing
    going forward so that you do not have to focus on these sorts
    of things. I want you to train marines to be able to be safe
    and lethal on the battlefield, not doing these sorts of things.
    I think we need to work to make it very clear that this is
    going to produce dire consequences for people stupid enough to
    do these kind of things going forward.
        Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Chairman McCain [presiding]. Senator King?
        Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I have gone from anger and disappointment to really
    sadness. This is a sad day for the Marine Corps and for our
    Armed Services.
        What bothers me, General Neller, is that I am convinced
    that all of us human beings have the capacity to be good or
    evil. How that comes out in any given situation, particularly
    in a group situation, depends almost entirely on how we are
    led.
        One of the things that bothers me is there was a quote in
    the press last week from the reporter and the former marine who
    really broke this story that not once on this website or on
    Marines United 2.0 did he see anybody say this is not what we
    are going to do. This is wrong. This is improper. This is
    disrespectful. Not once.
        That speaks to me of a culture that goes all the way down.
    You can have proclamations and issue letters and everything
    else, but if you have got lower ranking officers and non-
    commissioned officers who are winking and laughing and they
    deliver the statement with a little grin, that undermines the
    whole thing. This is an indication to me of a serious cultural
    problem that goes beyond the specifics of orders. Do you
    understand what I am suggesting?
        General Neller. Senator, I understand perfectly what you
    are suggesting, and I agree. You know, being a bystander for
    any sort of an offense is something that we struggle with. I
    was told once by a senior officer that the Marine Corps is
    built on discipline and it is a rock. It is the foundation of
    our house. Every time you walk by something you know is wrong,
    it is the equivalent of taking a hammer and hitting that rock
    and putting a chip in it. If enough people walk by, pretty soon
    that thing is going to crack. So we may be at that point.
        I think marines in their mind--they somehow separate what
    they do during operational things, what they do in training,
    and what they do when they are not out there actively engaged.
    They think that the social media, the Net gives them anonymity
    to do this type of thing. They are ignorant as to the impact.
    That is what I have got to make everybody understand. No, it
    does not work that way.
        But this is your Marine Corps and----
        Senator King. Beyond this posting and being dumb about what
    they put online is the underlying--these guys apparently did
    not feel that they were doing anything wrong. They were on this
    website with 30,000 people on it, and they were posting it and
    nobody said, this is not appropriate or, gee, fellows, do you
    think this is a good idea That indicates to me that they felt
    empowered or enabled to do this.
        So it is really not a question of issuing orders. It is
    issuing orders that are credible that go all the way down the
    line in terms of not only saying the right thing but meaning it
    and conveying it.
        General Neller. Mr. Brennan, the individual that broke the
    story--he said it. I think we are finding and we are going to
    find that there are more that are going to come out and say
    what should have been said before. You know, there are a number
    of people out there that have the ear of whatever this group
    is.
        Senator King. By the way, you know that they are mocking
    you and the leadership----
        General Neller. I understand that.
        Senator King.--on this MU [Marines United] 2.0 and they are
    saying, come and get us, NCIS. They are continuing to post
    pictures as recently as this past weekend. I mean, they are not
    getting the word here.
        General Neller. Well, then we will have to get the word to
    them.
        Senator King. Let me just follow up with one quick question
    to what Mr. Tillis asked, and perhaps this is for the closed
    session. I think one of the real problems here is what is the
    jurisdiction, what is the accountability for a former marine.
    Under the military code, there are consequences for people who
    are in the Marines now, but if they are out--again, one of the
    things I have read is a guy posted his discharge papers and
    said, try to come and get me, NCIS. So that is a separate
    question.
        Mr. Stackley, can you respond in open session on that, or
    is this going to be a matter of State law?
        Mr. Stackley. Today it is a matter of State law. The first
    thing I tried to dive into is what is legal versus what is not
    legal, and then what is acceptable versus what is not
    acceptable. There are a number of behaviors here that are
    absolutely unacceptable and yet they are legal. Within the
    Services, we have the ability to draw that line in terms of
    something that is not acceptable, we are going to prosecute.
    Outside of the Service, where it is legal and unacceptable, we
    are limited in our ability to prosecute. So I welcome Senator
    Sullivan's comments--or I am sorry--Senator Tillis' comments
    regarding added authorities that we might want to look into
    that give us the ability to go outside of uniformed services
    for everybody to understand, you served in our country, you
    left the uniform behind, you remain accountable to the Code
    that we hold those still in uniform to behave to.
        Senator King. Thank you.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Graham?
        Senator Graham. Thank you.
        Did someone actually put their discharge online and say,
    come get me? Did they actually do that? Who is that person? Do
    we know their name?
        Senator King. I will give you the citation.
        Senator Graham. Well, let us make them famous right here.
    What is their name? We will get it later. We will publicly let
    the world know who this person is.
        The website--I am a little confused now. I am not the best
    person to tell you about the Internet. That is for darned sure.
    But the 30,000 people who are viewing this--were most of them
    doing bad things, or were they just talking as marines, Mr.
    Secretary?
        Mr. Stackley. The numbers that we are looking at right now
    is the majority of them were not involved in this activity.
        Senator Graham. So the posting of photos, you know,
    somebody took a photo of a young female marine--how many of the
    30,000 went to that part of it?
        Mr. Stackley. The number that we are carrying is about 500,
    but the investigation remains ongoing.
        Senator Graham. I am agreeing with the General. One is too
    many. But I am just trying to get my head around it. What was
    the purpose of this website?
        Mr. Stackley. Marines United was initiated 5 or 6 years ago
    with good purposes in mind, and that was to support marines who
    were suffering from PTSD [post-traumatic stress disorder] and
    coming out of combat action.
        Senator Graham. So these websites started with a good
    purpose and some people have hijacked it basically. Is that
    right?
        Mr. Stackley. Yes, sir.
        Senator Graham. Sergeant Major, you've got a 14-year-old
    daughter.
        Sergeant Major Green. Yes, sir.
        Senator Graham. What would you tell someone who has a 14-
    year-old daughter that does not know as much about the Marines
    as you do about whether that daughter should join the Marines?
        Sergeant Major Green. First of all, sir, I am ashamed of
    the actions of this website. We recruit marines, as I said
    before, 30,000 a year. I can assure that parent, mother or
    father, that the chain of command in the Marine Corps, the
    leadership--we are going to do everything we can----
        Senator Graham. Would you tell those parents to send their
    daughter to the Marines given what we know today?
        Sergeant Major Green. Yes, sir. I can assure them that
    myself, the Commandant, and the leadership--we are going to
    pave a way that is respectful----
        Senator Graham. What would you say to that young woman,
    General, who is thinking about joining the Marines?
        General Neller. I could understand why they would have some
    questions.
        Senator Graham. Do you not think this has kind of stepped
    all over recruiting of young women?
        General Neller. Senator, we are talking to our recruiting
    folks because the irony of all this is we are trying to
    increase the number of women in the Marine Corps.
        Senator Graham. Right.
        General Neller. This certainly, I would say, is not
    helpful.
        Senator Graham. I would say this is devastatingly bad.
        Would you agree with me that this is one of the darkest
    chapters in the history of the Marine Corps, even though there
    are maybe 500 people involved?
        General Neller. We have not distinguished ourselves in this
    affair.
        Senator Graham. Having said that, you are the finest
    fighting force in the history of the world, pound for pound,
    the United States Marine Corps. You have an honored tradition,
    but every organization has dark moments.
        Do you agree with me this is one of the darkest moments and
    it needs to be fixed?
        General Neller. Yes, Senator.
        Senator Graham. There are two ways to get people to do
    better. Appeal to their better nature. Sergeant Major Green, do
    you agree with that?
        Sergeant Major Green. Absolutely, sir.
        Senator Graham. And scare the hell out of them.
        Sergeant Major Green. Yes, sir.
        Senator Graham. General, do you believe that people are
    sufficiently afraid of degrading their fellow female marines as
    of this moment?
        General Neller. Based on their actions, no. No, Senator.
        Senator Graham. Will you promise me that there will be a
    lot of fear coming?
        General Neller. We will do all that we can to hold people
    accountable.
        Senator Graham. The Marine hymn says, first to fight for
    right and freedom and to keep our honor clean. Do you believe
    you need to fight to keep that honor clean?
        General Neller. Absolutely, Senator. We have to.
        Senator Graham. Are you committed to winning that fight?
        General Neller. I am.
        Senator Graham. Thank you.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Hirono?
        Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I realize that so much of this kind of behavior has to do
    with some attitudes and culture, and it is very difficult,
    General Neller, to change the culture. So I am wondering
    whether one of the ways that we can deal with this issue is to
    provide some deterrence. Would you agree that one of the ways
    that we could deter this kind of behavior is through court
    martial where appropriate?
        General Neller. Senator, I believe deterrence is part of
    this, and there has got to be accountability, whether it be a
    court martial or other processes. Yes.
        Senator Hirono. In terms of changing the culture, how would
    you begin to even change the culture? This has been
    longstanding not just in the Marines but issues that involve
    all of our Services. So how do you even begin to change the
    culture when, for example, you have a Commander in Chief who
    exhibits certain attitudes toward women? How do you change the
    culture?
        General Neller. The only way I know how we have done this
    in the past when we have dealt with other issues--I mean, there
    are always going to be those that are going to not be able to
    adjust, and that will be addressed. But I believe that most
    marines join the Marine Corps to improve themselves, that they
    are good and decent people, and they have got to understand
    that there are certain behaviors that we expect and that we
    recognize positively and there are others that we do not. Part
    of that is having a discussion. It has got to start at the
    beginning when they first see their recruiter, and it has to be
    modeled throughout the organization. There are, obviously,
    those either who are not modeling the culture that we want or
    they are even condoning it.
        So as the Sergeant Major said, we are going to go back,
    take a look where it starts. For all marines, it starts at
    recruit training or it starts at officer candidate school. We
    are going to look at how we talk about this, make sure they
    understand it. But as you say, at some point there has to be
    deterrence because--I would like to say we would be 100 percent
    successful, but we probably will not. So for those that are not
    able to comply, there has to be deterrence.
        Senator Hirono. So I am assuming that you will take every
    step necessary to identify whether certain codes of behavior
    were violated and then to pursue court martials, that you will
    do that very, very strenuously.
        General Neller. Yes, Senator.
        Senator Hirono. I would say another aspect of all of this
    is that what kind of message are you giving to the current
    female marines? I do not know how many women there are in the
    Marines, but have you brought everyone together in a way that
    the message gets to not just individuals who are undergoing
    training or during the recruitment process, but the current
    situation with all of your women marines? Have you had any kind
    of a gathering of the marines, both male and female, to talk
    about how this is totally unacceptable?
        General Neller. Senator, the only way I can address 185,000
    marines or right today about 184,000--and there are about
    15,000 women marines. About 1,500 of them are officers. 13,500
    are enlisted--is for me to use our own platforms on social
    media to tell them what is going on and what they should expect
    from their leadership.
        Senator Hirono. Excuse me. Yes, that is you. But there are
    also your leaders on the bases. What are they doing to get the
    message across en masse?
        General Neller. We have spoken to all leadership last
    Friday. We issued instructions for them to go out and engage in
    this conversation. I am going to follow that up this week with
    even more direction. I am going down and the Sergeant Major and
    I are going down to Camp Lejeune to directly speak to marines
    in person. But it is going to take some work so that everybody
    gets down to the last marine. So we have a plan to speak both
    personally and using other venues or forums such as this
    hearing today to tell them what is going on and what they
    should expect and what is acceptable and what is not
    acceptable.
        Senator Hirono. So if I were to go to Kaneohe Marine Corps,
    for example, would there be a session that I could attend where
    this situation would be discussed?
        General Neller. There will be or there has been. I do not
    know exactly when commanders have scheduled this, but I can
    find that out for you, Senator, and when you are home and you
    want to participate, I would appreciate that.
        Senator Hirono. I will certainly check into that. Thank you
    very much.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Rounds?
        Senator Rounds. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        General, you and the Sergeant Major have both made it very
    clear that you have been disgusted with this activity. I
    believe you when you say that you want this ended.
        At the same time, I am just wondering when you first heard
    about this and you were working your way through it, did it
    come to mind that this may very well be an outgrowth of the
    discrimination that we have seen in terms of men who may very
    well have thought that we just simply do not think this is the
    place for women in the military?
        General Neller. Senator, we talked about that, and I am
    sure there are going to be people that have that particular
    view. But okay. But I do not see how that gets you from that
    particular view to where you have to take a picture of
    somebody, post it online, and then mock, haze, harass, degrade,
    or even potentially assault them online. I mean, whether that
    is their motivation or not, I do not know. I have heard it
    described as the dark humor of veterans. That is a cop-out. But
    we also know that there are marines that are participating in
    this who never have been shot at in their lives. So they are
    just trying to get credibility. I do not know.
        It really does not matter what their motivation is to me.
    It is the behavior. Whatever made them think that they were
    going to do this or watch it and not report it, that is what we
    have got to get after.
        Senator Rounds. The reality is that we cannot go to war
    without women anymore, can we?
        General Neller. No, Senator, we cannot.
        Senator Rounds. There are 500 individuals that we believe
    have participated in the inappropriate activity on this
    particular website that has been brought to light. Do we know
    how many of the 500 would perhaps have been former members
    versus the number that are current members? Do we have the
    numbers there yet?
        General Neller. No, Senator, we do not. NCIS in the closed
    session--they may have more because they just got access to
    some more information, but right now we do not know.
        Sergeant Major Green. Senator Rounds, sir, if I can say
    something about----
        Senator Rounds. Yes, sir.
        Sergeant Green.--that you just talked about.
        One of the worst parts, besides the victim or the survivor,
    about this whole ordeal, if there are men in the Marine Corps
    that have served in the uniform or that feel that women are not
    supposed to be in the Marine Corps, they have absolutely
    captured a voice with this social media venue and denigrated
    women that are serving, that may want to serve, and those that
    have served. If we do not get this right, they can absolutely
    drive women out of the Marine Corps and give women a reason not
    to want to serve with us. That is why we must get at this
    because if there are men that exist in the Marine Corps outside
    that do not want women in the Marine Corps, this is absolutely
    a mouthpiece for them, and we would not allow them to have that
    voice.
        Senator Rounds. So in order to address specifically the
    actions that have occurred here, we have to make certain that
    we have within your ability to discipline clear and appropriate
    guidelines within the Code that allow you to address the
    specific actions for people that are still in the military, but
    then we have also got to find a way to address the actions of
    those who were formerly in the military and who are no longer a
    part of it but who are still displaying this type of activity.
    Is that a fair statement? We have got to be able to break it
    down into those two?
        Sergeant Major Green. Yes, sir, it is.
        Senator Rounds. Thank you.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Heinrich?
        Senator Heinrich. General Neller, would you agree that
    taking down a site is not going to solve this problem?
        General Neller. I would agree with that, Senator. It is
    only a symptom.
        Senator Heinrich. I think it is really important that we
    recognize that this is not a digital problem. It is not a
    social media problem. It is not Facebook's problem, that that
    is a whack-a-mole approach. We have tried it in the past. It
    does not work. This is a conduct problem. It is a criminal
    problem, and unfortunately it is a cultural problem.
        You said in your opening testimony that it is your
    inclination to resist that description of cultural, but I think
    it is important to recognize that until we recognize that for
    what it is, this will not change.
        Now, this pattern of social media groups posting pictures
    of female marines without consent--I have seen some pictures,
    screenshots glorifying horrible sexual violence. It has
    happened before. I got an article here from 2014. I will not
    share it with you because I do not want to share the marine's
    name. But she said, ``I was freaked out. I would not even look
    at it at first. I have all of my social media set up so it is
    private. So I was really confused how in the world they got a
    photo of me. I was terrified of the comments I was going to be
    receiving. Then subsequent comments were not only overtly
    sexual, but some threatened sexual violence.''
        So you have asked for the trust of female marines. You have
    asked for the trust of survivors. I just want to ask you given
    that this has happened again and again--it is pervasive in the
    social media environment in particular--what would you say to
    those female marines to demonstrate that Marine Corps
    leadership has earned that trust?
        General Neller. That is why I am asking them to trust me
    because my ability to sit there and say I have earned your
    trust--because we have not gotten after this. I acknowledge
    that. But I cannot get after it if they do not become part of
    the solution. I know that is a big ask because, as you
    rightfully mention, if they are out there within these venues,
    all the haters will be back there attacking them again tenfold.
    I think that is part of the problem. It is the worst part of
    retribution in cyber bullying that if you make a comment, that
    you end up getting shouted down or threatened or all the hate.
    I am sure you deal with that. I know I am going to deal with
    it. I have dealt with it. I am going to certainly deal with it
    after today.
        Senator Heinrich. A big part of that problem--and you
    mentioned this--is anonymity. Are Active Duty marines allowed
    to participate in social media in that space anonymously? Have
    you looked at that issue that maybe the rights of Active Duty
    marines in a social media environment might be different from
    just the general public?
        General Neller. This is where it gets difficult. I would
    ask that we get with the lawyers because I am not an attorney.
    But it becomes an issue of free speech, and as the Secretary
    said, what is criminal and what is not, what is consent to a
    picture and what is not consent to a picture. But there are
    individuals out there that put their name, their unit, and
    there has to be accountability for that. So that is what I am
    asking our women to help us with.
        Senator Heinrich. I would ask you to help us if there are
    specific changes to the UCMJ that you need to be able to
    address these sort of abusive behaviors. If there are specific
    statutory changes for people who have already been discharged,
    we need to know what those potential tools are that we need to
    help you get ahead of this problem.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Cruz?
        Senator Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Gentlemen, thank you for being here today.
        This is a sad day for the Marine Corps, and it is a sad day
    for our Armed Forces. All of us on this committee are agreed
    that the conduct at issue here was despicable, that we owe a
    sacred trust to the women and men who join our volunteer
    military and put it all on the line to keep us safe. To find
    themselves abused and victimized by fellow marines is
    completely unacceptable.
        I appreciate your addressing this issue with the
    seriousness that it deserves. My question to each of you is
    twofold. How do we ensure that this never happens again, and
    what needs to happen so that those who violated the rights of
    their fellow marines are held accountable? General?
        General Neller. Senator, to ensure that it does not happen
    again, we have got to change the way we see each other as
    marines. That is not going to be easy, but it has got to be
    done. I do not know how many people we are dealing with here.
    Some of them maybe they are just--whatever their beliefs are or
    they just happen to be piling on or they are just misguided or
    ignorant. But if they are in this organization, they cannot
    participate in this anymore.
        I honestly believe that the leadership out there and
    particularly the sergeant majors and the senior enlisted and
    the NCOs--they are the ones that have their finger on the pulse
    of the organization. I have got great trust in marines. I have
    seen what they can do. I know their spirit. I may be wrong. I
    pray to God I am not. But I do not believe this is indicative
    of the great majority of the marines that wear this uniform. So
    they are going to solve this. I cannot do this myself. The
    Sergeant Major cannot do this. We have got to solve this
    together.
        Now, for those that do not want to be part of that
    solution, then there has got to be accountability. We will work
    our way through this, but there are, as we discussed--we have
    got to clarify for our leadership what their actions can be if
    this behavior is identified and what they can do to hold these
    people accountable. We are looking at a whole number of things
    in addition to what is in the UCMJ. So that is our path
    forward.
        So we have got a training piece. It starts at the
    beginning, but it is really a leadership piece, a discussion
    piece, but then at the end there has to be accountability
    because, as Senator Graham said, there are those--they
    understand what is right and what is wrong, and there are
    others--they understand it, but they may feel like they have to
    do this. Then they are the ones that are going to have to be
    deterred and held accountable.
        Senator Cruz. Sergeant Major?
        Sergeant Major Green. Yes, sir. Sir, we have to build an
    environment. You know, if a marine walked into anyplace, the
    Salvation Army, the Red Cross, and they already have an idea of
    what that organization does, they walk in there and they
    realize that where they are going--the door that they walked
    through--they are not really doing what my thought was when I
    went in or what they advertise, then in real life, if they are
    doing something illegal, if they are doing something to
    denigrate and disrespect people, I am going to report it.
        We have to build that environment in our Marine Corps where
    they go in the social media world and to really understand the
    meaning of friend because when you hit the button and you give
    somebody the right as a friend, that is not the same meaning as
    in I meet someone. That is the reality of today in the virtual
    world. Just because you tag somebody as a friend, that does not
    mean you actually know that person, and that is not really your
    friend. Some people just learned that day, see people, tag them
    as a friend, let them in, not understanding in the social media
    world everything on your page you have just given the right to
    because they can screenshot it. They can do what they want,
    take it and do what they want. Understanding the laws that we
    have right now today that protect an individual--we have to
    explain that to our marines, our leadership, and those that we
    recruit.
        Senator Cruz. Thank you.
        Chairman McCain. Senator Warren?
        Senator Warren. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        So we are here today to discuss marines using social media
    to share intimate photographs of female servicemembers and
    veterans without their consent. It seems like every time we
    shut down one of these websites that a new one pops up.
        General Neller, I appreciated your strongly worded message
    last week, but we have already seen that at least one new
    website seems to have appeared in defiance of your guidance. We
    can keep playing digital whack-a-mole, but we will keep losing
    until we have better tools to prosecute those who are
    responsible.
        So I want to go back to a question about the Uniform Code
    of Military Justice, but I want to ask it from a different
    perspective. General Neller, it is my understanding that if the
    original photo was taken consensually, the UCMJ may not allow
    for the strictest penalties under article 120(c) even if it was
    subsequently shared without consent. Is that accurate?
        General Neller. Senator, my understanding is, as the
    Sergeant Major was discussing, if you are on a public facing
    webpage and you post a picture, that in itself can be construed
    as consent, and if someone else takes that picture, that there
    is no criminal action. I am not saying I agree with that, but
    that is an interpretation.
        Senator Warren. So let me ask this question. Many States
    have implemented laws that make so-called revenge pornography a
    criminal offense. Do you believe that we need a change like
    that to the UCMJ?
        General Neller. I think that would be helpful in the
    accountability process. Some of these pictures of these women
    where they were fully clothed--and it is the commentary and all
    that stuff.
        Senator Warren. I understand.
        General Neller. But, yes, I do agree.
        Senator Warren. But are photographs that were taken
    consensually and then someone else posted them or they were
    posted in a different context and then forwarded----
        General Neller. That is correct.
        Senator Warren. I know you are committed to pursuing this,
    but if we are going to shut down this conduct, then you ought
    to have every possible legal tool at your disposal.
        Now, I want to ask you a second question about this. Every
    Marine Corps base maintains a list of places that are off
    limits for servicemembers. In 2013, one of your predecessors,
    General Amos, told Congress that the Marines were examining
    whether you could legally make certain websites off limits in
    the same way. You cannot visit there any more than you can go
    into town and visit these particular places.
        What was the result of that assessment? Do you need
    additional authorities to be able to do that?
        General Neller. Senator, I am not aware--I will take that
    for the record, and maybe my SJA [Staff Judge Advocate] can
    talk to you about that. But I am not aware that we ever,
    because of right of free speech and other things, placed a
    website off limits. On a government computer, we block certain
    websites, but when someone is on their individual device, I am
    not aware that we have said the following websites are off
    limits and to frequent these sites, if we were even able to
    determine if the marine had, that you would be in violation of
    a lawful order.
        Senator Warren. I think this may be something that may be
    worth exploring again so that you have the maximum number of
    tools available to you to stop this behavior.
        I have one more that I want to ask, and that is, General
    Neller, you are not the first Commandant to attempt to address
    this issue, and in all due respect, it does not seem to be
    working. I think it is because the social media scandals are
    symptoms of a much larger problem. It happens in the barracks
    and it happens in the field, and it starts as early as basic
    training. Are you willing to reconsider the role that Marine
    recruit training plays in this and reevaluating the Marine
    Corps' policy of gender segregation at basic training?
        General Neller. Senator, we are taking a very long look at
    how we do recruit training right now. I would not couch our
    recruit training as segregated, and I would, at this time,
    invite you down to see how we do what we do.
        Senator Warren. We are not separating men and women anymore
    in the Marines?
        General Neller. All recruits in all the Services live
    separately because they live in an open squad base. Our
    training is done by platoons, men and women in platoons. A good
    portion of their training, as we do it now at Parris Island
    where all our women get trained, they do things with male
    recruits, the swim tank, the rifle range, the crucible, the
    field training, even now their final fitness exams. So to say
    that we are segregated I do not believe is a fair statement,
    but we do do it differently than everybody else.
        That said, we are looking----
        Senator Warren. Can I just clarify, General? Because I just
    want to make sure I understand, and I am past my time here, but
    I want to make sure I understand. Are you saying no activities
    are segregated other than sleeping, or are you saying that some
    activities are segregated and some are not?
        General Neller. Some are and some are not.
        Senator Warren. The question I am asking is whether you
    want to take another look at that.
        General Neller. We are looking at the entire way that we do
    recruit training, from how we educate and train our drill
    instructors to how we do the entire program of instruction for
    men and women.
        Senator Warren. Thank you, General.
        Servicemembers who disrespect their fellow servicemembers
    dishonor the Service and dishonor our Nation. We have got to
    put an end to this conduct so none of us is here again. Thank
    you.
        Chairman McCain. Senator McCaskill?
        Senator McCaskill. General, I think there are two issues I
    want to talk about during my brief time here.
        The first one is I want to make sure that you all respond
    to the point that has been made previously, but the idea that
    this had to be discovered by a journalist and not discovered by
    you. There is a fundamental flaw in oversight in terms of good
    order and discipline and conduct unbecoming if we are not
    ferreting out this kind of ugly, ugly representation of the
    Marine ethos without journalists having to do it.
        So I will look forward to a plan. I am going to ask my
    colleagues to join me in a letter to Secretary Mattis because I
    think this is something that needs to be done in all the
    Services. What are you all doing internally to monitor online
    conduct that is related to Active servicemembers, and how are
    you addressing that in terms of not just the vitriol that was
    on these sites, but also cyber bullying that could be impacting
    morale? I want to get to the bottom of that.
        The second one is accountability. Now, I am going to tell
    you a brief story, and that is when I was a prosecutor in
    Kansas City, I wanted to do more on domestic violence. The
    detectives came to me and they said, well, Senator--I was not a
    Senator then--prosecutor, you need to understand that many
    times the victim does not want to cooperate, and if we do not
    have a victim, we cannot prosecute. I said, well, let us shut
    down the homicide unit then because we do not have victims in
    homicide and we figure out a way to make the case.
        I bring that up because for 134 and 133, conduct unbecoming
    and good order and discipline, it does not matter if the
    victims cooperate. If you can prove that this was an Active
    marine and they went online and said these things and referred
    to fellow marines in this manner, then I mean, the prosecutor
    in me tells me you have got a prima facie case. I know you
    cannot comment on that because of undue influence, but I just
    want to point out that it is very important to understand that
    accountability is possible here even if the survivors are not
    interested in coming forward to be, quote/unquote, part of the
    case. Could you acknowledge that, General?
        General Neller. Senator, I understand your point. Again, no
    excuse, but it would require us to be out there--I mean, we
    surveil our network for people that are passing information. We
    look for malware. We do a lot of things. That is why Major
    General Reynolds behind me--she is our MARFORCYBER [United
    States Marine Corps Forces Cyber] commander. Our ability to
    look at all these potential websites where there is this kind
    of nefarious, disgusting behavior--I mean, it goes to the point
    where there is a certain--where is the right of the marine to
    express free speech and where does it go into an illegal act.
        Senator McCaskill. Well, I get that.
        General Neller. And so our ability to monitor that. So we
    are having that discussion now, and I take your point.
        Senator McCaskill. I think it is really important, and we
    can talk about this in closed session more. It is not something
    that has to be in closed session, but NCIS is the one that I
    want to talk to about it.
        We have detectives all over this Nation that are posing as
    bad guys online to catch horrible people that are trafficking
    children and doing other illegal activities. It would not be
    hard for someone to pose as an Active marine looking for a spot
    where they can see what these guys obviously were interested in
    looking at. This is something that you could do on a random
    basis. Once it is known that that is out there, it is amazing
    the deterrent effect that that would have in terms of this
    being seen as acceptable.
        I also want to say that I think this accountability piece--
    you know, there are crimes you can deter and there are crimes
    you cannot deter. I guarantee you, you throw some marines out
    of the Marine Corps, you say you are no longer welcome here and
    you are dishonorably discharged for this behavior, you do that
    in a high profile way--and obviously, I do not want you to
    comment because I do not want to get into undue influence
    territory. But let me just say for the record if you go after
    the Active marines that you have evidence on and if they are
    dishonorably discharged, that will begin to send a signal that
    many of us up here are desperate for you to send.
        Then I would close, Mr. Chairman, just by pointing out that
    there has been some progress made. The 2014 SAPRO [Sexual
    Assault Prevention and Response Office] survey was cited by
    Senator Gillibrand. I do want to say that in 2015--I want to
    say this for all the survivors out there--77 percent of the
    survivors that were surveyed in 2015 recommended that other
    survivors come forward. So that is a positive that we are
    having that increase in numbers of survivors advising other
    survivors to come forward. I wanted to get that publicly on the
    record today so survivors out there in this incident hear that
    those who are coming forward who now have services and support
    available to them can expect a more positive experience as we
    all try to hold these jerks accountable. And ``jerk'' is a kind
    word.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman McCain. Senator McCaskill has her usual reticence.
    I thank you for your passion. I thank you for your involvement
    in this issue for many years. Many of us do appreciate your
    commitment, Senator McCaskill. Thank you.
        Senator Peters?
        Senator Peters. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I have to agree with my colleagues up here that today is,
    indeed, a very sad day for the Marine Corps and for our
    Services. Without question, disgusting, absolutely
    reprehensible behavior that needs to be aggressively dealt
    with, and it has to be dealt with immediately. I know, General
    Neller, you know the entire country is watching today. Although
    I appreciate your strong words, I know that you know that we
    also need strong action, that words will not be enough. We are
    going to need to immediately take action. In my experience with
    you, I know that that is the type of leader you are, and we
    will be working with you in any way that we can to be helpful
    to you.
        My colleagues have made some very important points
    regarding the culture in the Marine Corps. I want to build on
    that and specifically talk a little bit about recruit training,
    which has been brought up, particularly though at Parris
    Island. As all of the witnesses here know, Marine Corps
    recruits from the eastern half of the United States, including
    my State of Michigan, as well as all female recruits attend
    basic training at Parris Island in South Carolina. Without
    question, basic training is the place where the Marine Corps
    instills its core values. A marine is always a marine. So those
    are values that stay with that individual for their entire
    life.
        Last year, the Marine Corps completed three command-level
    investigations into hazing and abuse of recruits and even
    hazing among drill instructors at Parris Island. Allegations
    include the targeted hazing of recruits for their ethnic
    background or religious beliefs, including a Muslim recruit who
    was placed in an industrial clothes dryer multiple times.
        A separate Muslim recruit from my State of Michigan died at
    Parris Island by jumping over a stairwell after enduring abuse
    by the marines entrusted to train him. The command
    investigation into the recruit's death found that, quote,
    maltreatment by his drill instructor team, leadership failures
    at multiple levels of command, and administrative and process
    failures contributed to his death. The investigation also found
    a senior drill instructor at Parris Island taught subordinate
    drill instructors to, quote, hate recruits--end of quote--in
    order to train them.
        I am very concerned that the poor practices in the training
    of Marine recruits at Parris Island as a result of some of
    these instances may have contributed to some of the inexcusable
    behavior that we are discussing today. As you know, General
    Neller, respect is a fundamental core value, respect for every
    aspect of that individual.
        So I know you have referenced a comprehensive review of
    recruit training, but could you let the panel know what will
    the scope of this review be, how it will be conducted, and has
    it already resulted in some corrective actions in recruit
    training at Parris Island?
        General Neller. Well, Senator, after the investigation, we
    sat down and went through and looked at what was going on at
    recruit training. What we found was that we had rules and
    regulations, but there was a failure in leadership and in
    supervision. So we have done a number of things to clarify what
    the rules were, what they were not. We have increased the
    supervision at the recruit depots and by increasing the numbers
    of officers. We have gone back to look at how we train our
    drill instructors.
        There were some practices that had crept in over time that
    were not in compliance with the orders. There were a number of
    officers, to include a battalion and regimental commander, who
    were relieved due to their inability to maintain good order and
    discipline and follow the rules and regulations.
        The individuals that you mentioned, plus others, are in the
    process of going through the Military Justice system. I will
    leave it at that. You probably will have read or hear about
    where they are within that process in the next few weeks.
        So with this, I hate to say that this provided an
    opportunity, but again, to look back at, okay, so how does
    this--this just does not happen here. It starts somewhere. And
    so we are in the process, and we are already in the process of
    going back and talking to drill instructors about what it is to
    lead, what it is to coach, teach, mentor. We have got a number
    of things we are looking at, and we have already implemented as
    far as changing the attitude. The commanding generals that are
    there at both San Diego and Parris Island are all in with this.
    They understand what we are trying to do. I think they are
    making progress. But we have to prove that we have changed.
        So I agree with you that part of this--part of what has to
    change at the recruit training and in officer candidate school
    is a discussion of how we view each other as marines, whatever
    our race, our gender, whatever, because that is where you learn
    what right looks like. And so we are in the middle of that. I
    believe we have a plan. It is not going to change overnight,
    but it is going to change. I am confident of that, and we will
    correct this. If there are others that do not want to follow
    the rules, they will be held accountable.
        So I believe we are headed in the right direction there.
    But, again, you want to see results. I am responsible to give
    you those results, and it is not going to happen overnight.
    But, again, I would ask and invite you to come down and see
    what we do at Parris Island or San Diego and see some of your
    Michigan marines because I believe we are on the right path.
        Senator Peters. Thank you, General.
        Chairman McCain. Secretary Stackley, thank you for your
    appearance today and thank you for your input as we recognize
    the civilian stewardship of our military.
        Sergeant Major Green, your leadership is probably now more
    necessary than most times in the past as we repair the damage
    that has been done and to put into proper perspective that this
    is a terrible thing. From time to time, these things have
    happened, but at the same time, we recognize the United States
    Marine Corps and their service and sacrifice that is going on
    today as we speak, and we do not want to ever diminish that
    service and sacrifice that they have made.
        General Neller, you came before this committee with candor.
    We have now, I believe, embarked, thanks to your testimony and
    your commitment, on an effort that may take a long time. But I
    think this hearing was an important beginning to fixing a
    problem that apparently has been out there for some period of
    time. I believe you are facing it head on.
        The one request I have from this committee is that you keep
    us informed not only of the progress that you make but in the
    challenges that you face because we are looking at a new form
    of communication amongst our citizens, and it is called the
    Internet. As I mentioned in my opening statement, it has
    provided knowledge and information in a way that has never been
    available before. There is also a dark side, and we are looking
    at the dark side today.
        We are going to look forward to your and Secretary
    Stackley's recommendations if it is necessary to pass
    additional legislation. We cherish the right of all citizens to
    have a right of privacy, but I think when we are seeing this
    kind of outrageous and offensive behavior, then we need to
    provide some protection to our fellow citizens and those who
    have served our country with honor because when we do something
    like this, we harm the reputation of all. A few have done that
    and it is our obligation to try to see that this kind of thing
    is not repeated.
        Senator Reed?
        Senator Reed. Mr. Chairman, I simply want to concur and
    thank you for holding this hearing. It has been very important,
    and it will be a foundation for further work by all the
    Military Services, not just the Marine Corps, all the Military
    Services, and this Congress to get it right.
        Chairman McCain. We will meet in 10 minutes in Russell 220
    to continue this conversation in a classified setting. Thank
    you.
        [Whereupon, at 1:23 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

        [Questions for the record with answers supplied follow:]

                                   __________
                 Questions Submitted by Senator James M. Inhofe
                                 marines united
        1. Senator Inhofe. General Neller, under the UCMJ, what actions do
    you see taken against those directly involved in the sharing of these
    photos and comments?
        General Neller. The Acting Secretary of the Navy signed ALNAV [All
    Navy] 021-17 on 18 April, which changed the U.S. Navy Regulations to
    include article 1168, prohibiting the non-consensual distribution of
    intimate images. This article makes punishable under the UCMJ conduct
    that might not otherwise be criminalized under other portions of the
    Code. In addition, on 9 May, I issued MARADMIN [Marine Administrative
    Message] 223/17, modifying the Marine Corps Separations and Retirement
    Manual to make administrative separation processing mandatory in the
    cases of marines determined to have wrongfully distributed an intimate
    image of another person. These substantial changes are being undertaken
    in addition to the many other legal tools available to implement
    discipline under the UCMJ in such cases.

        2. Senator Inhofe. General Neller, what about those indirectly
    involved, such as those that are simply members of the group?
        General Neller. On 14 March, I released ALMAR [All Marine Corps]
    008/17 which provides guidance for personnel who, in their personal
    capacity, desire to make unofficial posts on the internet regarding
    Marine Corps-related topics and guidance for marines concerning
    unofficial online activity that has an adverse effect on good order and
    discipline within, or brings discredit upon, the Armed Forces.
    Additionally, I published a White Letter on 21 March, ``Social Media
    Guidance-Mandatory Counseling Requirement,'' which mandated, within 30
    days, every Active Duty and Reserve Marine, officer and enlisted,
    receive a formal counseling confirming that they read and understand
    the updated social media guidance outlined in a message released to all
    marines on 14 March. Per article 1137 of the U.S. Navy Regulations,
    ``[p]ersons in the naval service shall report as soon as possible to
    superior authority all offenses under the [UCMJ] which come under their
    observation, except when such persons are themselves already criminally
    involved in such offenses at the time such offenses first come under
    their observation.''

        3. Senator Inhofe. General Neller, are the Department of Defense
    and the other services working with you to identify other similar
    sites, possible involvement of their personnel, and how to eliminate
    this culture from the entire Department of Defense?
        General Neller did not respond in time for printing. When received,
    answer will be retained in committee files.

        4. Senator Inhofe. General Neller, do you need additional support
    from Congress such as additional authorities or legislation with
    regards to identifying additional sites, determining identities of
    those involved, holding those involved accountable, being able identify
    similar sites in the future, etc.?
        General Neller did not respond in time for printing. When received,
    answer will be retained in committee files.

        5. Senator Inhofe. General Neller, what is the Marine Corps doing
    to support all the victims, civilian and military, and their families?
        General Neller did not respond in time for printing. When received,
    answer will be retained in committee files.

        6. Senator Inhofe. General Neller, what can Congress and
    specifically this committee do to assist you in supporting the victims
    and their families?
        General Neller did not respond in time for printing. When received,
    answer will be retained in committee files.

        7. Senator Inhofe. General Neller, you have also asked for the
    victims to come forward, [QUOTE] ``I'm going to ask them to trust us. I
    understand why that might be a bit of a reach for them right now. But I
    can't fix this . . . The only way there is going to be accountability
    in this is somebody comes forward and tells us what happened to them.''
    Do you believe the victims trust Marine Corps leadership and, if not,
    how do you regain their trust?
        General Neller did not respond in time for printing. When received,
    answer will be retained in committee files.

        8. Senator Inhofe. Mr. Traver, is Facebook assisting in the
    investigation?
        Mr. Traver. Yes, NCIS has engaged with the Vice President of
    Security for Facebook and continues to work with Facebook in support of
    this investigation. Facebook has agreed to disclose account records in
    accordance with its terms of service as detailed in its operational
    guidelines for law enforcement officers seeking records. To date,
    Facebook has provided assistance to NCIS with data preservation and
    retention and availability.

        9. Senator Inhofe. Mr. Traver, what capabilities does NCIS have
    regarding the cyber portion of the investigation?
        Mr. Traver. The NCIS Cyber Operations Directorate employs an
    assortment of investigative tools to support investigations. In regards
    to Marines United and other similar social media platforms, NCIS Cyber
    Directorate uses many social media investigative tools, to include web-
    scraping software to collect and review data, workstations to review
    collected data, workstations to run social media tools to identify
    accounts and groups, and a server with a database to store the
    collected data. The database works to identify duplicates and potential
    useful meta data. Personnel supporting the cyber capabilities are
    special agents and computer specialists with specialized training and
    experience assigned to the NCIS Cyber Directorate and NCIS Cyber
    Operations Field Office. As with any criminal investigation, NCIS
    utilizes traditional investigative techniques and methods in
    conjunction with various cyber capabilities to ensure the most
    comprehensive approach to investigative fact-finding.

        10. Senator Inhofe. General Neller, are you looking at policy
    changes, training changes, increased monitoring, . . . all the above?
        General Neller did not respond in time for printing. When received,
    answer will be retained in committee files.
                                   __________
                    Questions Submitted by Senator Jack Reed
                                  legal issues
        11. Senator Reed. Major General Ewers, it is clear that the Marine
    Corps has UCMJ jurisdiction over marines on Active Duty, and as well as
    over retired marines.
        Does the Marine Corps have UCMJ authority over marines who (1)
    committed a criminal act on Active Duty, (2) were discharged before the
    criminal act was discovered, and (3) are still serving in a Reserve
    status, such as the Individual Ready Reserve? What if the marine is no
    longer serving in a Reserve status?
        Major General Ewers. (1) Articles 2 and 3, UCMJ, permit the Marine
    Corps to prosecute current servicemembers and retirees, among others
    specifically enumerated, for an offense committed while on Active Duty
    or, in the case of a reservist, during inactive-duty training (i.e.,
    drill). However, in certain circumstances, when a former servicemember,
    not including retirees, separates from the service completely, the
    Marine Corps may no longer retain personal jurisdiction over an alleged
    offender. (2) Discharge may involve a punitive discharge (e.g., bad
    conduct discharge, dishonorable discharge, or dismissal) whereby upon
    execution of the discharge the servicemember is completely separated
    from the service. In other cases, ``discharge'' may simply connote a
    transfer from Active Duty to Reserve status, whereupon the
    servicemember obtains a DD-214 with a characterization of service.
    Often marines have continuing Reserve obligations stemming from their
    initial contract of enlistment such as service in the Individual Ready
    Reserve. These previously-discharged reservists may be subject to
    recall for criminal prosecution of offenses committed while on Active
    Duty. Also, reservists who serve on Active Duty orders for 90 days or
    more, or who are part of a contingency operation, will receive a DD-214
    upon termination of those activation orders. However, as stated above,
    when a former servicemember, not including retirees, separates from the
    service completely, the Marine Corps may no longer retain personal
    jurisdiction over an alleged offender. Exceptions include persons
    discharged from the Armed Forces who are later charged with having
    fraudulently obtained their discharge and those who have deserted from
    the Armed Forces. (3) Article 3(d) specifically states, ``A member of a
    Reserve component who is subject to this chapter is not, by virtue of
    the termination of a period of Active Duty or inactive-duty training,
    relieved from amenability to the jurisdiction of this chapter for an
    offense against this chapter committed during such period of Active
    Duty or Inactive Duty training.'' If the marine is no longer serving in
    a Reserve status and not a retiree or person otherwise enumerated under
    article 2 then the Marine Corps may no longer retain personal
    jurisdiction over an alleged offender.

        12. Senator Reed. Major General Ewers, if a marine receives an
    honorable discharge and is later found to have committed a criminal act
    while on Active Duty, can the Marine Corp reassess the marine's
    character of the marine's service and change the discharge to a lesser
    administrative discharge?
        Major General Ewers. Generally, once a marine receives a valid DD-
    214 with an honorable characterization of service no authorities exist
    to permit it from being subsequently revoked or otherwise amended to
    reflect a lower characterization. However, in the case of a
    fraudulently-obtained discharge, as described in article 3(b), each
    person so discharged from the Armed Forces may be subject to trial by
    court-martial on that charge. Upon conviction of that charge the marine
    may then be subject to trial by court-martial for all offenses under
    this chapter committed before the fraudulent discharge. Additionally,
    upon completion of their term and separation from the service, members
    of the Reserve component not on Active Duty receive a DD Form 256
    (Honorable Discharge Certificate) or DD Form 257 (General Discharge
    Certificate) for entry into their official military personnel file
    (OMPF). For servicemembers involuntary (administratively) separated
    from the service, the separation authority's direction letter, which
    also details their characterization of service, is provided to the
    servicemember and entered into their OMPF.

        13. Senator Reed. Major General Ewers, are there any other measures
    the Marine Corps can take to address the conduct of former marines for
    misconduct directly associated with their Marine Corps service?
        Major General Ewers. Articles 2 and 3, UCMJ, provide jurisdictional
    authority over an enumerated list of servicemembers, which typically
    differ by affiliation or status within the Armed Forces. Generally, if
    the marine is no longer serving in a Reserve status and not a retiree
    or person otherwise enumerated under article 2 then the Marine Corps
    may no longer retain personal jurisdiction over an alleged offender for
    criminal prosecution. However, federal, state, or local authorities may
    also have jurisdiction over the person and the offense(s) and may
    initial criminal prosecution accordingly. Additionally, while the
    Separation and Retirement Manual (``MARCORSEPMAN''), MCO 1900.16 w/ CH-
    1, dated August 7, 2015, does not specifically grant authority for the
    Commandant of the Marine Corps (CMC) or Deputy Commandant of Manpower
    and Reserve Affairs to ``reopen'' the retirement grade determination of
    retired servicemembers, SECNAVINST [Secretary of the Navy Instruction]
    1920.6c w/ CH-5, dated August 26, 2015, does permit the Secretary of
    the Navy, or his delegate, to reopen an officer's retirement grade
    determination if: ``(2) Substantial new evidence is discovered within 2
    years following separation which could have resulted in a lower grade
    determination had it been known by competent authority at the time of
    separation. For example, if an officer's misconduct committed while
    still on Active Duty is . . . substantiated after retirement by a
    criminal conviction or an adverse finding or conclusion from an
    officially documented investigation or inquiry, and such misconduct was
    not discoverable before retirement through due diligence, a new grade
    determination may be conducted. Notwithstanding the 2-year period,
    SECNAV may reopen a retirement grade determination up to 5 years after
    retirement in extraordinary circumstances . . . '' Para. 3, Encl. (6)
    of the SECNAVINST pertains.

        14. Senator Reed. Major General Ewers, the UCMJ does not have a
    punitive article expressly prohibiting ``revenge porn.''
        Do you believe the Military Services need a new punitive article to
    address the kind of alleged misconduct related to the Marines United
    Facebook site, or do other punitive articles of the UCMJ adequately
    address this misconduct?
        Major General Ewers. The National Defense Authorization Act for
    Fiscal Year 2018 has created a new punitive article 117a, UCMJ, that
    expressly prohibits non-consensual distribution of intimate images.
    Additionally, the U.S. Navy Regulations of 1990 were modified on April
    18, 2017 to include article 1168 which prohibits the non-consensual
    distribution of intimate images by marines and sailors and is
    punishable under article 92, UCMJ. On May 9, 2017, the MARCORSEPMAN was
    amended to include processing for separation is mandatory following the
    first substantiated incident of sexual harassment involving a
    ``[v]iolation of article 1168 of the U.S. Navy Regulations including,
    but not limited to, the distribution or broadcasting of an intimate
    image, without consent, if done for personal gain; or with the intent
    to humiliate, harm, harass, intimidate, threaten, or coerce the
    depicted person; or with reckless disregard as to whether the depicted
    person would be humiliated, harmed, intimidated, threatened, or
    coerced.''

        15. Senator Reed. Major General Ewers, the Navy Court of Criminal
    Appeals has ruled that a mere viewing of an indecent photograph was not
    a violation of article 120c of the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
        In your view, is intentional viewing of a sexually explicit
    photograph of another marine who did not consent to making that photo
    available for such viewing prejudicial to good order and discipline or
    service discrediting?
        Major General Ewers. (1) In United States v. Quick, 74 M.J.
    [Military Justice] 517, decided October 31, 2014, the Navy and Marine
    Corps Court of Criminal Appeals held that the specification under the
    charge for indecent viewing did not state an offense under article
    120c, UCMJ, because the express proscription of the making or
    broadcasting of indecent visual recordings implied that the viewing of
    indecent visual recordings was not proscribed and that the
    specification did not allege that the appellant viewed the victim's
    private area but alleged that he viewed a visual recording of her
    private area. (2) In general, article 134, UCMJ, makes punishable acts
    in three categories of offenses not specifically covered in any other
    article of the Code--such offenses to include ``all disorders and
    neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the Armed
    Forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the Armed
    Forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject
    to this chapter may be guilty.'' Article 133, UCMJ, applicable to
    officers, criminalizes an act or omission that, under the
    circumstances, constituted conduct unbecoming an officer and
    gentleman--i.e., ``action or behavior in an official capacity which, in
    dishonoring or disgracing the person as an officer, seriously
    compromises the officer's character as a gentleman, or action or
    behavior in an unofficial or private capacity which, in dishonoring or
    disgracing the officer personally, seriously compromises the person's
    standing as an officer.'' Article 133 includes acts made punishable by
    any other article. (3) Whether or not the conduct described in the
    question above may be prosecuted under articles 133 and/or 134 depends
    on the facts or circumstances of each case.

        [The opinion in UNITED STATES v. Quick, referenced above,
    attached:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        16. Senator Reed. Major General Ewers, can such conduct be charged
    as a violation of article 134 of the UCMJ?
        Major General Ewers. (1) In United States v. Quick, 74 M.J. 517,
    decided October 31, 2014, the Navy and Marine Corps Court of Criminal
    Appeals held that the specification under the charge for indecent
    viewing did not state an offense under article 120c, UCMJ, because the
    express proscription of the making or broadcasting of indecent visual
    recordings implied that the viewing of indecent visual recordings was
    not proscribed and that the specification did not allege that the
    appellant viewed the victim's private area but alleged that he viewed a
    visual recording of her private area. (2) In general, article 134,
    UCMJ, makes punishable acts in three categories of offenses not
    specifically covered in any other article of the Code--such offenses to
    include ``all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and
    discipline in the Armed Forces, all conduct of a nature to bring
    discredit upon the Armed Forces, and crimes and offenses not capital,
    of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty.'' Article 133,
    UCMJ, applicable to officers, criminalizes an act or omission that,
    under the circumstances, constituted conduct unbecoming an officer and
    gentleman--i.e., ``action or behavior in an official capacity which, in
    dishonoring or disgracing the person as an officer, seriously
    compromises the officer's character as a gentleman, or action or
    behavior in an unofficial or private capacity which, in dishonoring or
    disgracing the officer personally, seriously compromises the person's
    standing as an officer.'' Article 133 includes acts made punishable by
    any other article. (3) Whether or not the conduct described in the
    question above may be prosecuted under articles 133 and/or 134 depends
    on the facts or circumstances of each case.
                                   __________
               Questions Submitted by Senator Kirsten Gillibrand
                                 marines united
        17. Senator Gillibrand. General Neller, Major General Ewers, and
    Mr. Traver, what can you tell us about the additional groups that have
    grown out of Marines United?
        General Neller, Major General Ewers, and Mr. Traver. NCIS has not
    seen additional groups grow out of the original Marines United private
    Facebook group. Our investigation has determined that the original
    Marines United site was taken down, and individuals have subsequently
    recreated/replicated the site. The NCIS investigation has also
    identified additional sites on the Internet that depict nude
    servicemembers, both male and female, from all Services. Many of these
    sites predated the Marines United site, and many were active
    concurrently with the Marines United site. NCIS continues to
    investigate whether or not any photographs on these sites are connected
    to a criminal offense.

        18. Senator Gillibrand. Mr. Traver, if you have a cooperating
    witness, why don't you have access to the Google Drive?
        Mr. Traver. NCIS has utilized cooperating witnesses associated with
    social media platforms and suspect websites. NCIS could not access the
    Google drive associated with the Marines United site because the Google
    drive was disabled prior to NCIS commencing its investigation.

        19. Senator Gillibrand. Mr. Traver, are you aware of any civilians
    or military family members whose images were posted?
        Mr. Traver. NCIS is investigating all criminal allegations under
    NCIS' jurisdiction. Throughout the investigation, civilians and
    military family members have been identified. NCIS works with other
    federal, state and local law enforcement agencies and prosecutors on
    criminal information developed outside of NCIS' jurisdiction.

        20. Senator Gillibrand. Major General Ewers, do you have the
    authorities to move people who participated in the Drive if the person
    who they posted is in the same location as they are? What about others
    who harass a survivor because they saw her photo online?
        General Ewers. The Commandant of the Marine Corps takes seriously
    and understands the intolerable and corrosive effects that online
    social media misconduct has on our institution. He is committed to
    doing what is necessary to change the negative elements within the
    organization that have failed to appreciate the core values of dignity
    and respect and have ultimately facilitated this problem. Reassignment
    of personnel must be considered on a case by case basis, ensuring
    continuing support for victims while safeguarding due process for
    alleged offenders. The Marine Corps Personnel Assignment Policy, Marine
    Corps Order 1300.8, dated 18 September 2014, authorizes the
    administrative reassignment or transfer of Marines accused of sexual
    assault or related offenses. Further, Marine Corps Order 1752.5B,
    Sexual Assault Prevention and Response (SAPR) Program, dated 1 March
    2013, outlines the policies and procedures for administrative
    reassignment or transfer of these Marines. PCS [permanent change of
    station] orders should be used to facilitate transfers only in extreme
    cases, when no other options are available. Only CMC (MM/RA [Manpower
    Management/Reserve Affairs]) may effect PCA [permanent change of
    assignment] or PCS orders. However, the Sexual Assault Initial
    Disposition Authority (SA-IDA) of the accused may authorize and effect
    intra-unit or unit transfers.
                                   __________
               Questions Submitted by Senator Richard Blumenthal
                            marine corps precedence
        21. Senator Blumenthal. Secretary Stackley, General Neller, General
    Ewers, and General Reynolds, the Marines United incident is not an
    isolated occurrence, rather it is the third reported case of sexist,
    online harassment in the last 4 years for the Marines. In 2013, the
    Marine Corps was heavily criticized for its failure to address online
    targeting of female marine by their fellow servicemembers. Then-
    Commandant General Amos began to address social media and it was soon
    reported to Congress that training and policies were put in place to
    deter marines from inappropriate conduct. However, in 2014 another
    report was published that detailed Facebook accounts run by male
    marines that exploited women and perpetuated rape culture. Clearly, the
    training and policies the Marines have implemented is not working. I am
    disheartened that we are here again discussing a remarkably similar
    occurrence, a mere 4 years later. What are you going to do put a stop
    to this behavior? What resources and support are available to marines
    and civilians that suspect their photographs or information have been
    compromised?
        Secretary Stackley, General Neller, General Ewers, and General
    Reynolds. We formed a task force led by Assistant Commandant General
    Glenn Walters to recommend long-term solutions for the Corps. This is a
    complex problem, and we must address it thoughtfully to ensure we reach
    all ranks. In the near term, we are looking at ways to address online
    behaviors in our existing initiatives. We continue to seek innovative
    ways and a holistic approach to address destructive behaviors. One
    example includes ``Join the Conversation,'' a Professional Military
    Education designed to provide marines with guidance on identifying
    potentially destructive behaviors, confronting biases, and intervening
    appropriately. Specifically, it addresses the destructive behaviors
    hazing, sexual harassment, sexual assault, retaliation, and alcohol
    misuse. We are currently revising that education to directly confront
    the unacceptable permissive culture that promulgates the
    objectification of women. Marines, their dependents, and civilians
    impacted by this online misconduct are our highest priority. We will
    take care of them. We have established many avenues to access support
    services and made sure our service providers have the tools necessary
    to support those impacted. Service providers stand ready to provide
    immediate crisis intervention and information and referrals to anyone
    who comes forward. If someone impacted by the Marines United article or
    other social media misconduct wishes to maintain privacy, he/she may
    reach out to the chaplain and/or Victims Legal Counsel (VLC). The
    Marine Corps DSTRESS line provides a 24 hours a day, 7 days a week,
    anonymous phone and chat and referral service using a `Marine-to-
    Marine' approach via 1-877-476-7734 and/or through www.marines.mil.
    Other services available to an individual impacted are behavioral
    health counselors (Community Counseling Program), Sexual Assault
    Prevention and Response Victim Advocates, chain of command, Naval
    Criminal Investigative Services (NCIS), local law enforcement,
    Inspector General, equal opportunity advisors, victim witness assistant
    coordinators, and Military OneSource. A Marine Corps-specific website
    (www.marines.mil/) launched on 16 March 2017 and provides options for
    supportive services for those impacted by the Marines United article
    and/or other social media misconduct. The website also contains a
    multitude of frequently asked questions pertaining to social media
    misconduct. To report a crime or pass information on Marines United,
    NCIS provides servicemembers and civilians safe, discreet, and
    anonymous options to report criminal and force protection threats.
    Complaints may be reported to the Naval Criminal Investigative Service
    through their website; by text; by using the TipSubmit App; and/or by
    phone. Alternatively, reports may be made through the local Inspector
    General Hotline.

        22. Senator Blumenthal. Secretary Stackley, General Neller, and
    Sergeant Major Green, the Marine Corps has training and policies
    providing guidance for online behavior. Clearly this is not enough. I
    believe this is a deeply rooted cultural issue. Until this culture is
    changed, we will continue to see these horrendous events. How do you
    intend to change the culture to stop promulgating the objectification
    of women and truly treat them as equals?
        Secretary Stackley, General Neller and Sergeant Major Green. Our
    core values are honor, courage, and commitment. Marines who objectify
    women and do not treat them as equals are not living up to those
    values, to our Marine Corps ethos. A culture permissive to this kind of
    demeaning behavior is unacceptable. We formed a task force led by
    Assistant Commandant General Glenn Walters to recommend long-term
    solutions for the Corps. This is a complex problem, and we must address
    it thoughtfully to ensure we reach all ranks. Every marine--and that
    includes female marines--earns their title and deserves the respect of
    their fellow marines. Addressing this permissive culture begins at the
    recruiting depots and carries forward throughout the career of a
    marine. Our training and educations programs are under revision now to
    tackle this problem head on. This cultural change will begin in the
    classroom, but it will not end there. We will take our message to the
    barracks, to the rifle range, to online forums--to any environment that
    marines operate--and will make it clear that misogyny is not compatible
    with our core values. One resource we have created to share this
    message is a commander's discussion guide. The guided scenarios and
    background information in this guide will help ensure that all marines
    are trained and have the necessary tools to combat this demeaning
    behavior.

        23. Senator Blumenthal. General Reynolds, do you believe the
    current training and policies are accurate enough and broad enough to
    cover the vastness of cyber possibilities? How would you change any of
    the current training or policies to better protect marines?
        General Reynolds did not respond in time for printing. When
    received, answer will be retained in committee files.
                               ucmj, article 120c
        24. Senator Blumenthal. General Neller, General Ewers, and Mr.
    Traver, article 120c of the Uniform Code of Military Justice is one of
    the articles that individuals suspected of participating in
    distributing pictures on Marines United could be prosecuted under. The
    Marine Corps has said there have already been individuals in unrelated
    cases prosecuted for violating article 120c. It reads:
        (a)  Indecent Viewing, Visual Recording, or Broadcasting.--Any
    person subject to this chapter who, without legal justification or
    lawful authorization--
             (1)  knowingly and wrongfully views the private area of
    another person, without that other person's consent and under
    circumstances in which that other person has a reasonable expectation
    of privacy;
             (2)  knowingly photographs, videotapes, films, or records by
    any means the private area of another person, without that other
    person's consent and under circumstances in which that other person has
    a reasonable expectation of privacy; or
             (3)  knowingly broadcasts or distributes any such recording
    that the person knew or reasonably should have known was made under the
    circumstances proscribed in paragraphs (1) and (2);
            is guilty of an offense under this section and shall be
    punished as a court-martial may direct.
        How has the Marine Corps handled similar cases, in terms of
    military justice or administrative actions? How many marines have been
    prosecuted under article 120c of the UCMJ for social media violations?
        General Neller, General Ewers, and Mr. Traver. To date (since the
    report of misconduct involving members the Marines United Facebook
    group), there have been at least 116 subjects, suspects, or persons of
    interest (hereinafter, collectively, ``subjects'') reported for alleged
    online social media misconduct involving 22 non-DOD civilians and 94
    marines as subjects. Of the 94 cases in which the Marine Corps
    maintained at least administrative jurisdiction, 68 cases have reached
    disposition and 26 remain in a pending status. In terms of severity of
    action, there have been guilty findings at 5 special courts-martial and
    1 summary court-martial; 10 cases adjudicated via non-judicial
    punishment; 5 administrative separations; 25 formal adverse
    administrative actions; and, in 22 cases, no formal administrative
    action. In each of these cases commanders have exercised their
    independent and unfettered disciplinary disposition authority in
    reaching their decisions. Authorities for the various disciplinary
    actions have involved, among others: violations of the UCMJ article 92,
    (pursuant to article 1168, U.S. Navy Regulations, and Marine Corps
    Order 1000.9A (Sexual Harassment)); article 120c; article 134; and, 18
    U.S.C. 2261A (Stalking). The investigation into the Marines United
    Facebook Group involved a review of more than 120,000 images from over
    170 other websites. Investigators determined that while there were more
    than 22,000 images with persons depicted who had a possible Department
    of Defense affiliation, there were approximately 7,867 images with
    persons depicted who had a possible Marine Corps affiliation. Employing
    technology to include facial recognition software, investigators
    determined that only 68 potential victims were identifiable of the
    7,867 images. Further, investigators confirmed 31 of the 68 potential
    victims, and only 8 confirmed victims were able to identify a subject.
    These subjects are factored into the 116 subjects reported for
    investigation and disposition.

        25. Senator Blumenthal. General Neller, General Reynolds, General
    Ewers, and Mr. Traver, article 120c only addresses instances in which
    photos were taken without consent. This does not include photos that
    were taken with the consent, but then distributed beyond the consented
    party--more commonly known as a form of revenge porn. The original
    story broken by investigative journalist Thomas James Brennan on this
    scandal reports that many of the photos seem to fall within this
    category. This is an important privacy issue that must be addressed. Do
    you agree that there is a gap in the UCMJ for this type of crime? What
    other gaps do you believe exist?
        General Neller, General Reynolds, General Ewers, and Mr. Traver. In
    United States v. Quick, 74 M.J. 517, decided October 31, 2014, the Navy
    and Marine Corps Court of Criminal Appeals held that the specification
    under the charge for indecent viewing did not state an offense under
    article 120c, UCMJ, because the express proscription of the making or
    broadcasting of indecent visual recordings implied that the viewing of
    indecent visual recordings was not proscribed and that the
    specification did not allege that the appellant viewed the victim's
    private area but alleged that he viewed a visual recording of her
    private area. NDAA updates, year over year, continue to impact the area
    of military justice, to include both substantive and procedural
    changes. For example, article 120c, UCMJ--other sexual misconduct--is
    amended to correct mistaken indications that it applies to the
    nonconsensual broadcasting of an image of a private area where the
    image was initially created with the subject's consent. The National
    Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2018 has created a new
    punitive article 117a, UCMJ, that expressly prohibits non-consensual
    distribution of intimate images. Additionally, the U.S. Navy
    Regulations of 1990 were modified on April 18, 2017 to include article
    1168 which prohibits the non-consensual distribution of intimate images
    by marines and sailors and is punishable under article 92, UCMJ. On May
    9, 2017, the MARCORSEPMAN was amended to include processing for
    separation is mandatory following the first substantiated incident of
    sexual harassment involving a ``[v]iolation of article 1168 of the U.S.
    Navy Regulations including, but not limited to, the distribution or
    broadcasting of an intimate image, without consent, if done for
    personal gain; or with the intent to humiliate, harm, harass,
    intimidate, threaten, or coerce the depicted person; or with reckless
    disregard as to whether the depicted person would be humiliated,
    harmed, intimidated, threatened, or coerced.'' In general, article 134,
    UCMJ, makes punishable acts in three categories of offenses not
    specifically covered in any other article of the Code--such offenses to
    include ``all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and
    discipline in the Armed Forces, all conduct of a nature to bring
    discredit upon the Armed Forces, and crimes and offenses not capital,
    of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty.'' Article 133,
    UCMJ, applicable to officers, criminalizes an act or omission that,
    under the circumstances, constituted conduct unbecoming an officer and
    gentleman--i.e., ``action or behavior in an official capacity which, in
    dishonoring or disgracing the person as an officer, seriously
    compromises the officer's character as a gentleman, or action or
    behavior in an unofficial or private capacity which, in dishonoring or
    disgracing the officer personally, seriously compromises the person's
    standing as an officer.'' Article 133 includes acts made punishable by
    any other article. Whether or not the conduct described in the question
    above may be prosecuted under articles 133 and/or 134 depends on the
    facts or circumstances of each case.

        26. Senator Blumenthal. General Neller, General Reynolds, General
    Ewers, and Mr. Traver, understanding that the criminal investigation
    related to Marines United has only just begun, what articles of the
    UCMJ besides article 120c would you expect that individuals could be
    charged with given the types of activities described by the
    investigative journalist? What types of punishment will you seek?
        General Neller, General Reynolds, General Ewers, and Mr. Traver. As
    has been the case, I expect each of the commanders involved in these
    cases to exercise their independent and unfettered disciplinary
    disposition authority in reaching their decisions. Authorities for the
    various disciplinary actions have involved, among others: violations of
    the UCMJ article 92, (pursuant to article 1168, U.S. Navy Regulations,
    and Marine Corps Order 1000.9A (Sexual Harassment)); article 120c;
    article 134; and, 18 U.S.C. 2261A (Stalking).
                               ncis investigation
        27. Senator Blumenthal. General Reynolds, in early February, an
    investigative reported contacted Marine Corps Public Affairs Office to
    inform them of his intent to publish a story about Marines United
    Facebook page. The reporter, a former marine, was concerned that the
    private pages on this site contained inappropriate content to include a
    Google drive containing pictures of women (some of them naked) and
    personal information about them to include name, rank, and work
    location. An NCIS investigation began on February 22, 2017. Letters
    have been sent to Facebook and Google to preserve the sites. Google has
    taken down the Google drive while the Facebook page continues to
    function. A subpoena for information regarding the Facebook page is
    expected to be granted this week (March 13-18). Marines United was
    started as a suicide prevention support page and had 30,000 members.
    There are reports that new Facebook pages and sites have popped up to
    replace Marines United. How are you addressing these breakoff groups?
    How will you hold marines accountable that continue to perpetrate this
    abhorrent conduct?
        General Reynolds did not respond in time for printing. When
    received, answer will be retained in committee files.

        28. Senator Blumenthal. General Reynolds, what has been done to
    work with social media and network providers to delete photos?
        General Reynolds did not respond in time for printing. When
    received, answer will be retained in committee files.

        29. Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Traver, not everyone involved in the
    Marines United incident will be prosecutable under the UCMJ--as reports
    have led us to believe that civilians and former marines (not retired)
    were involved. You testified that you are not working with local
    authorities. Why is that? Will you commit to actively assisting
    civilian prosecutors within the appropriate jurisdiction in bringing
    these individuals to justice?
        Mr. Traver. NCIS is actively investigating all criminal allegations
    as they pertain to this matter. During the course of the ongoing
    investigation, NCIS has identified civilians and former servicemembers
    as potential victims and potential suspects. If, during the course of
    these investigations, information is developed about potential victims
    or suspects outside of NCIS' jurisdiction, NCIS will extract all
    pertinent information and actionable criminal intelligence related to
    the allegation and will make contact with the applicable federal, state
    or local law enforcement entity or civilian prosecutor with
    jurisdiction. NCIS will work in conjunction with that agency in pursuit
    of judicial outcomes.

        30. Senator Blumenthal. General Neller, General Reynolds, General
    Ewers, and Mr. Traver, what has been done to communicate with and
    assist identifiable victims?
        General Neller, General Reynolds, General Ewers, and Mr. Traver did
    not respond in time for printing. When received, answer will be
    retained in committee files.

        31. Senator Blumenthal. General Neller, General Reynolds, General
    Ewers, and Mr. Traver, what is the Marine Corps doing to encourage
    people to come forward?
        General Neller, General Reynolds, General Ewers, Mr. Traver. To
    date (since the report of misconduct involving members the Marines
    United Facebook group), there have been at least 116 subjects,
    suspects, or persons of interest (hereinafter, collectively,
    "subjects") reported for alleged online social media misconduct
    involving 22 non-DoD civilians and 94 Marines as subjects. Of the 94
    cases in which the Marine Corps maintained at least administrative
    jurisdiction, 68 cases have reached disposition and 26 remain in a
    pending status. In terms of severity of action, there have been guilty
    findings at 5 special courts-martial and 1 summary court-martial; 10
    cases adjudicated via non-judicial punishment; 5 administrative
    separations; 25 formal adverse administrative actions; and, in 22
    cases, no formal administrative action. In each of these cases
    commanders have exercised their independent and unfettered disciplinary
    disposition authority in reaching their decisions. Authorities for the
    various disciplinary actions have involved, among others: violations of
    the UCMJ Article 92, (pursuant to Article 1168, U.S. Navy Regulations,
    and Marine Corps Order 1000.9A (Sexual Harassment)); Article 120c;
    Article 134; and, 18 U.S.C. 2261A (Stalking). The investigation into
    the Marines United Facebook Group involved a review of more than
    120,000 images from over 170 other websites. Investigators determined
    that while there were more than 22,000 images with persons depicted who
    had a possible Department of Defense affiliation, there were
    approximately 7,867 images with persons depicted who had a possible
    Marine Corps affiliation. Employing technology to include facial
    recognition software, investigators determined that only 68 potential
    victims were identifiable of the 7,867 images. Further, investigators
    confirmed 31 of the 68 potential victims, and only 8 confirmed victims
    were able to identify a subject. These subjects are factored into the
    116 subjects reported for investigation and disposition.

        32. Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Traver, does NCIS have the resources
    and capability to fully investigate this situation? What other federal
    agencies are you working with?
        Mr. Traver. Yes, NCIS possesses sufficient manpower and technical
    resources to fully investigate this situation. NCIS has allocated
    significant resources to investigate allegations of criminal violations
    associated with this investigative effort. NCIS special agents
    throughout the agency are aggressively working investigations relating
    to the nonconsensual taking and nonconsensual posting of sexually
    explicit photographs of servicemembers. An NCIS-led Military Criminal
    Investigative Organization Task Force has been established at the
    Russell-Knox Building in Quantico, Va., to thoroughly investigate
    criminal allegations irrespective of Military Service. This task force
    includes NCIS special agents from the criminal investigations
    directorate, special agents from the cyber directorate, computer
    scientists, criminal analysts and criminal sociologists. The task force
    is composed of assets from NCIS, Air Force Office of Special
    Investigations, U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command and Coast
    Guard Investigative Service. If, during the conduct of the
    investigations, individuals are identified that do not fall under the
    purview of one of the members of the task force, NCIS will contact the
    appropriate federal, state or local law enforcement entity.

        33. Senator Blumenthal. Mr. Traver, you testified that NCIS has a
    cooperative witness with access to the Google drive, but that NCIS does
    not have access to the drive. Why have you not gained access to the
    drive?
        Mr. Traver. NCIS has utilized cooperating witnesses associated with
    social media platforms and suspect websites. NCIS could not access the
    Google drive associated with the Marines United site because the Google
    drive was disabled prior to NCIS initiating an investigation.
                                 cyber bullying
        34. Senator Blumenthal. General Ewers, I understand the Uniform
    Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) is broadly written, but it does not
    explicitly address cyber bullying. Article 134 functions as a catchall,
    stating ``Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all
    disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in
    the Armed Forces, all conduct of nature to bring discredit upon the
    Armed Forces, and crimes and offenses no capital, of which persons
    subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by
    a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature
    and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of
    that court.'' While I have been told this article could be used to
    prosecute cyber bullying, I would argue that having an article in the
    UCMJ specifically addressing cyber bullying would not only provide a
    means for pointed prosecution, but would send a message that DOD is
    serious about its obligation to protecting its servicemembers and
    prosecuting those that intend to do harm. The consequences for these
    inappropriate actions on Marines United need to be severe and swift
    enough to make a significant impact to change and deter despicable
    behavior. I am considering introducing legislation to specifically
    include cyberbullying as an offense under the UCMJ. Do you believe it
    would be helpful to more explicitly address cyber bullying by including
    an article specifically addressing it to get at behavior that uses
    electronic communications to intimidate or threaten other marines? Are
    there examples you can point to when the existing catchall provision
    has been effectively used by JAGs [Judge Advocate Generals] to
    prosecute for behavior that would be considered by a layman to be
    cyberbullying?
        General Ewers. In general, article 134, UCMJ, makes punishable acts
    in three categories of offenses not specifically covered in any other
    article of the Code--such offenses to include ``all disorders and
    neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the Armed
    Forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the Armed
    Forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject
    to this chapter may be guilty.'' Article 133, UCMJ, applicable to
    officers, criminalizes an act or omission that, under the
    circumstances, constituted conduct unbecoming an officer and
    gentleman--i.e., ``action or behavior in an official capacity which, in
    dishonoring or disgracing the person as an officer, seriously
    compromises the officer's character as a gentleman, or action or
    behavior in an unofficial or private capacity which, in dishonoring or
    disgracing the officer personally, seriously compromises the person's
    standing as an officer.'' Article 133 includes acts made punishable by
    any other article. Whether or not the conduct described in the question
    above may be prosecuted under articles 133 and/or 134 depends on the
    facts or circumstances of each case. The National Defense Authorization
    Act for Fiscal Year 2018 has created a new punitive article 117a, UCMJ,
    that expressly prohibits non-consensual distribution of intimate
    images. Additionally, the U.S. Navy Regulations of 1990 were modified
    on April 18, 2017 to include article 1168 which prohibits the non-
    consensual distribution of intimate images by marines and sailors and
    is punishable under article 92, UCMJ. Additionally, authorities for the
    various disciplinary actions may involve, among others: violations of
    the UCMJ article 92, (pursuant to Marine Corps Order 1000.9A (Sexual
    Harassment)); article 120c; article 134; and, 18 U.S.C. 2261A
    (Stalking).

        35. Senator Blumenthal. General Ewers, the Supreme Court considered
    the question of freedom of expression in the Armed Forces in the 1974
    case, Parker v. Levy. The decision noted, ``Speech that is protected in
    the civil population may nonetheless undermine the effectiveness of
    response to command. If it does, it is constitutionally unprotected.''
    In order for the individuals who have participated in cyber bullying
    and harassment to fully be held accountable, it is important for us to
    understand what speech you all believe is constitutionally protected in
    these circumstances. Do you believe that speech designed to intimidate
    or endanger the lives of marines is protected by the First Amendment?
    From what you have learned of the photographs and statements made on
    the relevant Google drive on the Marines United Facebook page, do you
    anticipate finding conduct that is not constitutionally protected and
    can be prosecuted under the UCMJ? Will you extend that analysis to both
    military and retired military?
        General Ewers. The National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal
    Year 2018 has created a new punitive article 117a, UCMJ, that expressly
    prohibits non-consensual distribution of intimate images. Moreover, the
    U.S. Navy Regulations of 1990 were modified on April 18, 2017 to
    include article 1168 which prohibits the non-consensual distribution of
    intimate images by marines and sailors and is punishable under article
    92, UCMJ. Additionally, authorities for the various disciplinary
    actions may involve, among others: violations of the UCMJ article 92,
    (pursuant to Marine Corps Order 1000.9A (Sexual Harassment)); article
    120c; article 134; and, 18 U.S.C. 2261A (Stalking). Articles 2 and 3,
    UCMJ, permit the Marine Corps to prosecute current servicemembers and
    retirees, among others specifically enumerated, for an offense
    committed while on Active Duty or, in the case of a reservist, during
    inactive-duty training (i.e., drill). However, in certain
    circumstances, when a former servicemember, not including retirees,
    separates from the service completely, the Marine Corps may no longer
    retain personal jurisdiction over an alleged offender. Article 3(d)
    specifically states, ``A member of a Reserve component who is subject
    to this chapter is not, by virtue of the termination of a period of
    Active Duty or inactive-duty training, relieved from amenability to the
    jurisdiction of this chapter for an offense against this chapter
    committed during such period of Active Duty or inactive-duty
    training.'' If the marine is no longer serving in a Reserve status and
    not a retiree or person otherwise enumerated under article 2 then the
    Marine Corps may no longer retain personal jurisdiction over an alleged
    offender. However, federal, state, or local authorities may also have
    jurisdiction over the person and the offense(s) and may initial
    criminal prosecution accordingly.

        36. Senator Blumenthal. General Neller, General Reynolds, General
    Ewers, Mr. Traver, and Sergeant Major Green, to deter future incidents,
    I believe individuals must be held accountable for their actions. When
    this investigation is complete, do you commit to holding these
    individuals accountable to the fullest extent of the Uniform Code of
    Military Justice and to reporting back to us any barriers to your
    investigation in current law that made it more challenging to prosecute
    so that we may make it easier to hold people accountable in the future?
        General Neller, General Reynolds, General Ewers, Mr. Traver and
    Sergeant Major Green. We take seriously and understand the intolerable
    and corrosive effects that online social media misconduct has on our
    institution. We are committed to doing what is necessary to change the
    negative elements within the organization that have failed to
    appreciate the core values of dignity and respect and have ultimately
    facilitated this problem as well as to ensure that commanders have the
    tools necessary for accountability. With that said, we also expect each
    of the commanders involved in these cases to exercise their completely
    independent and unfettered disciplinary disposition authority in
    reaching their decisions.
                                   __________
                Questions Submitted by Senator Elizabeth Warren
          updating armed forces disciplinary control board procedures
        37. Senator Warren. General Neller, Marine Corps commanders
    currently have the authority to maintain a list of establishments that
    are off-limits for servicemembers, under procedures set in place at 32
    C.F.R 631, Armed Forces Disciplinary Control Board. In 2013, one of
    your predecessors, General Amos, told Rep. Jackie Speier that the
    Marines were examining whether it was possible to legally make certain
    websites off-limits in the same way (letter attached for reference).

        What was the result of that assessment?
        General Neller. In 2006, the Services signed onto a measure which
    governed the establishment and operation of Armed Forces Disciplinary
    Control Boards (AFDCB) by the Services, applicable to the Marine Corps
    as Marine Corps Order 1620.2D. The order states that the Commandant,
    U.S. Marine Corps will develop and have staff supervision over AFDCBs
    and off-installation enforcement policies. The establishment of off-
    limits areas is a function of command. It may be used by commanders to
    help maintain good order and discipline, health, morale, safety, and
    welfare of service personnel. Off-limits action is also intended to
    prevent service personnel from being exposed to or victimized by crime-
    conducive conditions. Where sufficient cause exists, commanders retain
    substantial discretion to declare establishments or areas temporarily
    off-limits to personnel of their respective commands in emergency
    situations. Service personnel are prohibited from entering
    establishments or areas declared off-limits according to this
    regulation. Violations may subject the member to disciplinary action
    per applicable service regulations and the UCMJ. However, the AFDCBs
    are used on brick-and-mortar establishments within a base's or
    installation's defined geographic parameters or jurisdiction,
    generally. The same cannot be said of Internet sites, particularly
    given the scope and quantity of sites on the Internet, how quickly they
    are created, moved, and/or deleted. Further, the procedure for placing
    an establishment on an off-limits list affords the proprietor of said
    establishment with due process, often including an invitation to meet,
    engage in productive discourse, and arrange to remove any aspect that
    operates to degrade good order and discipline, etc. Therefore, it is
    not feasible to make certain Internet websites off-limits in the same
    way as brick-and-mortar establishments.

        38. Senator Warren. General Neller, would you support an off-limits
    list of this nature, why or why not?
        General Neller. For the above-stated reasons, it is not feasible to
    make certain websites off-limits in the same way as brick-and-mortar
    establishments.

        39. Senator Warren. General Neller, do you need additional
    authorities in order to be able to create such a list, and if so, what
    authorities are needed?
        General Neller. For the above-stated reasons, it is not feasible to
    make certain websites off-limits in the same way as brick-and-mortar
    establishments.
                  monitoring adverse behavior on the internet
        40. Senator Warren. General Neller, in your press briefing last
    week, you said ``the Marine Corps is not out there looking for sites''
    like this. Given the number of incidents, will you reconsider this
    policy, why or why not?
        General Neller did not respond in time for printing. When received,
    answer will be retained in committee files.
        comprehensive training for integration of women into combat arms
        41. Senator Warren. General Neller, the Marine Corps did a
    significant amount of training in preparation for the repeal of Don't
    Ask Don't Tell, and by many accounts that training was very effective.
    What training was provided to marines in advance of the integration of
    women into combat arms roles, and how does this training compare to the
    Don't Ask Don't Tell experience?
        General Neller. The material and delivery methodology were modeled
    on the plan used for ``Don't Ask Don't Tell'' training. During 2016,
    the Marine Corps sent a mobile training team (MTT) to 11 major bases
    and stations around the world to provide Tier 1 training and
    educational materials to more than 1,000 Marine leaders. Designed to
    set the conditions for successful integration of female marines into
    newly opened MOSs [military occupation specialty codes] and units, the
    MTT briefed and conducted small group discussions focusing on: An
    overview of the Marine Corps Integration Implementation Plan
    Administrative changes as a result of the new policy; Lessons learned
    from previously integrated Marine Corps units and Allied Forces;
    Unconscious bias effects on decision making, Organizational culture;
    and Communication skills and techniques Every O-5 and O-6 level command
    was required to identify at least two command representatives to attend
    Tier 1 training. Commanders and sergeants major were highly encouraged
    to attend Tier 1 training but could send representatives in their
    place. For Active component units, at least one command representative
    had to be an officer (O-3 or above) and an enlisted command
    representative had to be E-7 or above. For Reserve component units,
    command representatives could be from the Selected Marine Corps Reserve
    (SMCR) and/or the Inspector and Instructor (I&I) staff. As unit subject
    matter experts, the command representatives then trained commanders and
    their staffs (tier 2), who in turn trained subordinate leaders (tier 3)
    who then trained marines and sailors under their charge (tier 4).
    Training was conducted in small group guided discussions.

        42. Senator Warren. General Neller, was the above training provided
    to all marines, or only to marines serving in combat units newly-
    designated for integration?
        General Neller. Training was provided to all marines, both Active
    and Reserve. For marines in the Active component, tier 2 training was
    completed by August 2016; tier 3 training completed by September 2016;
    and tier 4 training completed by October 2016. For marines in the
    Reserve component, tier 2 training was completed by October 2016; tier
    3 training by November 2016; and tier 4 training completed by January
    2017.

        43. Senator Warren. General Neller, what training does the Marine
    Corps currently provide to educate marines about the importance of
    preventing sexual harassment, and is this training standardized and
    mandatory across the force, or subject to the commander's discretion?
        General Neller. Educating marines about the importance of
    preventing sexual harassment is both standardized and comprehensive
    throughout the Marine Corps. At entry level training, extensive
    training is conducted for both officer and enlisted marines. All
    marines are required to receive annually 3 hours of Equal Opportunity
    training on Sexual Harassment, Discrimination and Hazing conducted by
    command-designated personnel. Training topics include: equal
    opportunity leadership awareness; Examples of prohibited activities and
    how they differ from authorized activities Command and individual
    responsibilities to prevent and report sexual harassment,
    discrimination, and hazing; Unit reporting requirements; Sexual
    harassment and the Uniform Code of Military Justice; and Consequences
    for victim/witness retaliation. All recruits receive approximately 40
    hours of formal training in core values, 1.5 hours on hazing, 1.5 hours
    on cultural awareness, 2 hours on ethics, and 1.5 hours on equal
    opportunity. Additionally, there are numerous guided discussions
    throughout recruit training that have tie-ins to core values. Officer
    candidates receive approximately 3 hours of formal core values
    training, 3 hours of training on hazing, 6 hours in formal ethics
    instruction and 6 hours on equal opportunity. As with recruit training,
    there are numerous guided discussions and practical events that
    reinforce the Marine Corps' core values. Students at The Basic School
    receive 8.5 hours of formal core values training, 3.5 hours on hazing,
    3.5 hours in cultural awareness, 11.5 hours in formal ethics
    instruction and 3.5 hours on equal opportunity. Through the mandated
    Commandant's Commandership Course, all prospective commanding officers
    and senior enlisted advisors receive training on command climate,
    hazing and equal opportunity.

        44. Senator Warren. General Neller, is training provided verbally
    via in-person sessions or are marines permitted to complete this
    training online?
        General Neller did not respond in time for printing. When received,
    answer will be retained in committee files.

        45. Senator Warren. General Neller, does this training include any
    effort to discourage misogynistic or disparaging language toward women?
        General Neller. In the Marine Corps we have a saying: everything we
    do, in garrison or in the field, is preparation for combat. In a
    similar vein, we teach marines that all of our actions--on duty or on
    liberty--reflect who we are and what values we truly hold. We teach
    marines that honor, courage and commitment are not merely things we do;
    they are values bred into each and every marine from day one at boot
    camp or OCS [Officer Candidate School] and reflected 24/7 in our
    conduct in all circumstances. Commanders publish equal opportunity
    policy, stress leadership accountability and emphasize teamwork.
    Discrimination in any form--color, gender, race, religion, or national
    origin--or creating or failing to correct a hostile work environment
    based on any form of discrimination is contrary to our core values, and
    is contrary to mission accomplishment.

        46. Senator Warren. General Neller, does this training currently
    address behavior on social media?
        General Neller. Yes. As far back as 2010, the Marine Corps issued
    formal guidance on the appropriate and inappropriate use of social
    media. Among other things, that guidance stated that all marines are
    responsible for what they post; that the line between professional and
    personal lives blur in the online environment; and that postings that
    are defamatory, libelous, abusive, threatening, racially or ethnically
    hateful, or otherwise offensive or illegal may result in discipline
    under the UCMJ. All recruits receive approximately 2 hours of classroom
    instruction on social media awareness, and officer candidates receive a
    guided discussion on ``Being a Lieutenant of Marines'' taught by the
    OCS Commander that covers social media awareness.
                                recruit training
        47. Senator Warren. General Neller, you disagreed with the
    characterization that marine recruit training was segregated: ``I would
    not couch our recruit training as segregated.'' Please provide a full
    break down of the activities male and female recruits perform together
    and those activities that they perform separately.
        General Neller. During recruit training, approximately 61 percent
    of training for males and females is conducted in the same place at the
    same time. During the first phase of recruit training (shipping and
    receiving), classroom academics, and water survival (approximately 57
    hours of training) are conducted concurrently (male/female). During the
    second phase (grass/firing weeks and Marksmanship Training Platoon),
    Team Week, Basic Warrior Training and Table 2 firing (approximately 153
    hours) are conducted concurrently. During Phase 3 (academic testing),
    The Crucible, Emblem Ceremony, liberty, Marine Week, Family Day, and
    Graduation are conducted concurrently (approximately 169 hours). The
    remaining time is gender-separate, predominately during gender-specific
    wellness classes, activities that highlight the physical capability
    differences between the sexes, and barracks time. The Center for Naval
    Analyses (CNA) is currently researching the extent and effectiveness of
    gender-combined training and possible options to increase gender-
    combined training at Parris Island.

        48. Senator Warren. General Neller, how many male recruits
    graduated from Marine Recruit Depot Parris Island each year for the
    past five years? How many females?
        General Neller did not respond in time for printing. When received,
    answer will be retained in committee files.

        49. Senator Warren. General Neller, how many male recruits
    graduated from Marine Recruit Depot San Diego each year for the past
    five years?
        General Neller. During the past five years, an average of 15,559
    males graduated from San Diego. See the table below:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                              Year to date
                   -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        FY12          FY13          FY14          FY15          FY16          FY17          TOTAL
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Male                 16,003        16,818        13,749        15,556        15,669         3,314       81,109
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Data retrieved on 3/20/2017.

        [The outside statement of John Rowan follows:]

              Vietnam Veterans of America's Statement for Record:
                     john rowan, national president and ceo
        Chairman McCain, Ranking Member Reed, Members of the Senate Armed
    Services Committee, we thank you for the opportunity to submit this
    statement for the record. Like everyone in this room, we are appalled
    by the events that brought us together for this hearing today. It's
    hard to imagine how someone in uniform could have so little respect for
    their colleagues and for their service that they would engage in this
    despicable campaign of cyber bullying. Yet, as the shock wears off, we
    are unsurprised by this ugly news. In 2014, an investigation by Task &
    Purpose revealed many of the exact same issues. The failure of the
    Department of Defense to respond appropriately back then only
    reinforced the behavior that was exposed again by the recent reporting
    by War Horse.
        While it is necessary to devote significant attention to the bad
    actors in this scandal, we're calling Congress and on the Department of
    Defense to not only to focus on investigations of this behavior, but to
    make supporting victims their first priority when responding to
    ``Marines United.'' Every servicemember and veteran who investigators
    can positively identify as a victim in this scandal should be informed
    of their full legal rights, provided appropriate psychological
    counseling and legal support, and should be guaranteed absolute
    protection from retaliation.
        The War Horse and Reveal News recently uncovered a massive
    investigation into hundreds of marines who had shared explicit photos
    on the ``Marines United'' Facebook page, which has since been shut
    down. Days later, Task & Purpose, a military and veterans news and
    culture website has independently confirmed that veterans involved in
    the original ``Marines United'' page have uploaded a collection of the
    photos and videos to the website Pornhub. Thomas Brennan, a marine
    veteran, Purple Heart recipient, and founder of The War Horse has
    received threats after breaking the story on March 4. The Military
    Times has reported that this issue is not unique to the Marine Corps,
    and that other branches are initiating their own investigations.
        While we welcome Secretary of Defense Mattis and General Robert
    Neller's condemnations of those involved in posting these photos and
    the tens of thousands of bystanders who condoned the behavior, we
    remain concerned that too little is being done to support the women who
    have been the victims of this outrageous behavior. Here's what these
    women need to know: First and foremost, we love and respect you. We in
    the community of military and veteran service organizations are here to
    support you now and forever. We'll be standing by organizations such as
    Service Women's Action Network and Protect Our Defenders who have been
    leading from the front in this battle against sexism in the military.
        The Department of Defense needs to ensure that servicemembers know
    that the Department of Veterans Affairs offers free counseling for
    survivors of military sexual trauma (MST) regardless of whether or not
    that incident was reported while the members were on duty. We know that
    many veterans who reported MST in the past have received bad-paper
    discharges, and Congress, the Department of Defense, and the Department
    of Veterans Affairs must do more for them too. Veterans should know
    that anyone on Active Duty, and any veteran who has experienced MST can
    get counseling at Vet Centers across the country, regardless of
    discharge. The Department of Defense needs to include this information
    in their statements regarding this investigation.
        To the servicemembers and veterans impacted by this scandal, our
    message is this: You are not alone. We're with you.
        Next, we'd like to encourage the military to make full use of the
    Uniform Code of Military Justice in accordance with the actions of each
    individual involved in the ``Marines United'' Facebook page and any
    like it. The military has a history of taking shortcuts by issuing
    administrative discharges when justice demands more. We want to ensure
    that punishments for those involved are tailored to match the level of
    severity of each individual's actions. We ask that the Services utilize
    courts martial when appropriate, and that there is no discrimination by
    officer or enlisted status, by rank, or by time in service.
        Recognizing that it is likely that some of those involved in
    behavior violating the code of conduct expected of servicemembers could
    be impacted by post-traumatic stress disorder or traumatic stress
    disorder, and that separation for those individuals may be likely, we
    urge the Services to consider the effect of a less-than-honorable
    discharge on the ability of these veterans to recover from the wounds
    of war. While many of those involved may be allegedly facing serious
    charges, we urge the Services to consider forms of punishment, when
    necessary, that are appropriately harsh, but do not include a lifetime
    denial of healthcare. That is not to say that no servicemember guilty
    of serious misconduct deserves the harshest of discharges, but every
    veteran should have the right to due process by court martial before
    receiving such a punishment.

        [The outside statement of Erin Kirk-Cuomo follows:]

     written testimony of not in my marine corps, presented by co-founder
    erin kirk-cuomo, before senate armed services committee, march 14, 2017
        Chairman McCain, Senators of the Committee,
        Not in My Marine Corps (#NotInMyMarineCorps) is a group of
    dedicated Active Duty and veteran military members, joined together to
    advocate against sexual harassment and assault in the U.S. Military.
    This group exists as a vehicle for impacted servicemembers of all
    military branches to share their stories in an effort to shine a light
    on the pervasive conduct and attitudes that lead to such toxic
    behavior. We provide a platform of support, ways to report, mental
    health services, removal of unwanted content from the web, and legal
    services. We demand that all servicewomen, servicemen, and civilians
    receive the protections and respect they deserve, and no longer be
    subject to these demoralizing behaviors from fellow servicemembers
    which encourage rape culture and sexism.
        The issues of nonconsensual photo sharing, reported for the past
    week by multiple news outlets, were not a surprise to women in the
    military. Women servicemembers brought sites with content like Marines
    United and Anon-IB to their leadership's attention for over a decade,
    and were told that the online issues were ``too big to handle.'' These
    photographs were taken without our knowledge, stolen from our social
    media accounts, or shared beyond the original intended recipient, with
    the sole intent of exploitation, denigration, and ridicule. Women have
    been subject to surreptitious photo sharing within units and bases for
    far too long in ways that extend beyond social media. We have received
    many stories over the past week from describing instances of just this
    type. For example, a staff non-commissioned officer shared her story on
    condition of anonymity:

            ``I was at a senior enlisted (E-7) leadership school and was
            participating in outdoor team-building activities. Afterward, a
            male classmate . . . asked me if I knew about mind the gap. I
            said yes, and he said he planned to send in some photos he took
            from his work phone that day. I became alarmed, and went to the
            class leader (another male classmate) to confront the issue. I
            asked to see the photos, and discovered a . . . trove of
            sexist, racist, and generally offensive photos and memes - some
            saved from outside sources, and some obviously taken secretly
            including a photo of me taken without my knowledge, aimed at my
            upper thigh ``gap'' and other photos of female classmates'
            cleavage, etc. The class leader insisted the issue be squashed
            by simply deleting the photos, and it went no further. Since
            the photos weren't deleted in front of me, I fear they could be
            on MU, AnonIB, or similar site.``

        Stories like this prove that women in the military are not given a
    buffer due to rank and its privileges.
        Marine Corps Commandant General Neller said last Friday, ``the only
    way we can fix this is if someone comes forward and tells us what
    happened to them.'' We have been coming forward for years. When we came
    forward we were continually dismissed. We were told to grow thicker
    skin and suck it up. This is a boy's club--and boys will be boys. As a
    response to reporting, we were simply given a forced apology as a form
    of punishment for the perpetrators. At worst, we were labeled with
    derogatory terms for reporting, ostracized from our units, and forced
    out of potential life-long careers in the Marine Corps simply because
    we spoke up.

            ``When I was stationed in 29 Palms, I was hanging out with a
            few NCOs and we were all having a good time and having some
            drinks. I consensually had sex with one of them. I found out .
            . . his roommate video-taped what happened. He bragged about
            it. I had to confront him and threaten to tell. I hated having
            to pull that card and potentially ruin his career, but they
            forced my hand by putting me in that situation. The Sgt cried
            and apologized. Destroyed the footage in front of me. Thank God
            it was in the early 2000s before camera phones and youtube.
            Thank God I was able to stop it from ruining my career, and his
            for that matter. He claimed he didn't know his roommate taped
            us. Maybe that's true, maybe not. I don't care either way. It
            angers me that even when I thought I was in control of myself
            and making a consensual decision, there was another male who
            sought to take control of the situation and exploit me.''

        It is not popular to speak truth to power when the message points
    the finger of culpability right at the top of the proverbial totem
    pole. It's nearly impossible to feel safe enough to make a report when
    the ones accused are in your chain of command. The 2014 Sexual Assault
    Report from RAND shows that of the total reports made by female
    servicemembers, 67 percent of offenders were of higher rank, and 58
    percent were a unit leader/supervisor. Not In My Marine Corps believes
    senior female staff non-commissioned officers and commissioned officers
    must take a greater role and have an open door policy for reporting
    sexual assault and harassment. The chain of command has failed and
    continues to fail those victimized by sexual assault and harassment.
        Since the Marines United story broke last week, military and
    legislative leaders have acknowledged the need to address the issues of
    punishing online sexual harassment. There is no substantive or
    comprehensive federal law that would punish the actions of those
    involved in Marines United, Anon-IB, or similar sites. We are calling
    for legislation that makes it a federal crime to distribute a private,
    visual depiction of a person's intimate parts, or of a person engaging
    in sexual act, with a disregard for a person's lack of consent to the
    sharing. We also believe an amendment to the Uniformed Code of Military
    Justice is necessary to specifically address punitive liability for
    actions of non-consensual pornography and exploitation, regardless of
    the means (social media, text message, e-mail) used to distribute.
        Not In My Marine Corps requests that all votes on the Department of
    Defense non-civilian nominations, or general officers, be suspended
    until every submitted candidate is on the record pledging support to
    make the issues surrounding the Marines United and Anon-IB
    nonconsensual photo sharing a priority. These candidates must strongly
    state their commitment to thoroughly investigate, across military
    branches, the issues of nonconsensual photo sharing, harassment,
    assault, exploitation, and online harassment by servicemembers and
    veterans. We request their support for an amendment to the Uniform Code
    of Military Justice to specifically address nonconsensual photo
    sharing, online harassment, and rape culture language as recently
    revealed on sites like Marines United and Anon-IB. Furthermore, we
    request that all future Marine Corps general officer candidates state
    their dedication to ending gender segregation in Marine Corps basic
    training, as this practice lays the foundation for the actions and
    attitudes appearing on Marines United and similar sites.
        We believe the culture of the military must fundamentally change in
    order to provide a safe work environment free from harassment and
    assault, and an end to the mentality in which women are considered
    inferior. We believe this is a battle that can and will be won; as
    female marines, we are accustomed to fighting uphill battles. General
    Robert Neller expressed a sentiment on Friday during his press
    conference that women in the Marine Corps have been feeling since our
    introduction to the Corps. ``We have been fighting for 15 years, men
    and women side by side. ( . . . ) So what do you have to do to get in?
    What do you have to do to get in?'' Women have fought and bled on the
    front lines of this country's wars dating back to 1812 when Lucy Brewer
    disguised herself as a man named George Baker and served as a marine
    aboard the USS Constitution. Since that day we have been fighting not
    only for our country, our Corps, but also for acceptance. We wait for
    the day when the quote by LtGen Thomas Holcomb, 17th Commandant of the
    Marine Corps, finally rings true for all marines. ``They (women
    marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their
    basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit
    the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.''

    Signed,

    Erin Kirk-Cuomo, Co-Founder, Veteran United States Marine Corps
    Lisa Gleason, Co-Founder, Veteran United States Marine Corps
    Jennifer Esparza, Co-Founder, Veteran United States Marine Corps
    Sara [redacted], Co-Founder, Active Duty United States Coast Guard

                                     [all]