[Senate Hearing 115-528]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                                                         
                                                         S.Hrg. 115-528

                          PENDING LEGISLATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON 
                   PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING

                                 OF THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                     ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                                   on


S. 483                              S. 2160            S. 3245
S. 1572/H.R. 3279                   S. 2297            S. 3297
S. 1787                             S. 2721            S. 3325
S. 1959                             S. 2809            H.R. 2075
S. 2078                             S. 2907
 


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                            AUGUST 22, 2018

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                       Printed for the use of the
               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
               
               
               
               
               
               

                          PENDING LEGISLATION
                          
                          




                            



                                                        S. Hrg. 115-528
 
                          PENDING LEGISLATION

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON 
                   PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING

                                 OF THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                      ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                     ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                                   on


S. 483                              S. 2160            S. 3245
S. 1572/H.R. 3279                   S. 2297            S. 3297
S. 1787                             S. 2721            S. 3325
S. 1959                             S. 2809            H.R. 2075
S. 2078                             S. 2907
 


                               __________

                            AUGUST 22, 2018

                               __________
                               
                               
                               
                               
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                               
                               


                       Printed for the use of the
               Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
        
        
        
        
                          ______

              U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
 31-320                 WASHINGTON : 2020        
 
 
 
        
        
        
        
               COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                    LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
MIKE LEE, Utah                       BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
JEFF FLAKE, Arizona                  DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
STEVE DAINES, Montana                JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
CORY GARDNER, Colorado               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee           MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota            ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
ROB PORTMAN, Ohio                    CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia  TINA SMITH, Minnesota
                                 ------                                

           Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining

                           MIKE LEE, Chairman

JOHN BARRASSO                        RON WYDEN
JAMES E. RISCH                       DEBBIE STABENOW
JEFF FLAKE                           JOE MANCHIN III
STEVE DAINES                         MARTIN HEINRICH
CORY GARDNER                         MAZIE K. HIRONO
LAMAR ALEXANDER                      CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO
JOHN HOEVEN                          TINA SMITH
BILL CASSIDY
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO

                      Brian Hughes, Staff Director
                     Kellie Donnelly, Chief Counsel
   Lucy Murfitt, Senior Counsel and Public Lands & Natural Resources 
                            Policy Director
                Annie Hoefler, Professional Staff Member
             Mary Louise Wagner, Democratic Staff Director
                Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
                David Brooks, Democratic General Counsel
              Rebecca Bonner, Democratic Legislative Aide
              
              
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Lee, Hon. Mike, Subcommittee Chairman and a U.S. Senator from 
  Utah...........................................................     1
Heinrich, Hon. Martin, a U.S. Senator from New Mexico............    30
Wyden, Hon. Ron, a U.S. Senator from Oregon......................    83

                               WITNESSES

Bennet, Hon. Michael F., a U.S. Senator from Colorado............     3
Casamassa, Glenn, Associate Deputy Chief, National Forest System, 
  U.S. Forest Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture............    31
McAlear, Christopher, Assistant Director, National Conservation 
  Lands & Community Partnerships, Bureau of Land Management, U.S. 
  Department of the Interior.....................................    47
Keyser, Marilynne, President, Friends and Neighbors of the 
  Deschutes Canyon Area..........................................    79

          ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

Albuquerque Chapter of United Nations Association of the United 
  States of America:
    Letter for the Record........................................   123
All Pueblo Council of Governors:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   124
Alliance for Justice, et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   126
American Fly Fishing Trade Association, et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   129
Archaeology Southwest:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   132
Association of National Grasslands:
    Letter for the Record........................................   134
Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   136
Bacon, Karin:
    Comments for the Record......................................   138
Basham, Matt:
    Comments for the Record......................................   176
Belton, Mark:
    Letter for the Record........................................   139
Bennet, Hon. Michael F.:
    Opening Statement............................................     3
Bentz, Hon. Cliff:
    Letter for the Record........................................   140
Boldrin, Morgan:
    Comments for the Record......................................   180
Bonham, Hon. Daniel:
    Letter for the Record........................................   141
Bowman, Phillip:
    Letter for the Record........................................   181
Brassfield, Bill:
    Comments for the Record......................................   183
Bridge, Shelene:
    Letter for the Record........................................   142
Busa, Candice:
    Comments for the Record......................................   143
Californians for Western Wilderness, et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   144
California Wilderness Coalition, et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   147
Casamassa, Glenn:
    Opening Statement............................................    31
    Written Testimony............................................    33
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    94
Casebolt, Dan:
    Comments for the Record......................................   184
Chambers, Jim:
    Comments for the Record......................................   185
Coalition for American Heritage:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   149
Colorado Off-Highway Vehicle Coalition, et al.:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   186
Colorado Wool Growers Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   217
(The) Conservation Alliance:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   151
Conservation Lands Foundation, et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   155
Conserve Southwest Utah:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   156
Cooper, Glenn L.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   158
Cooper, Hon. Hilary, Hon. Ben Tisdel, and Hon. Pete McKay:
    Letter for the Record........................................     5
Crooked River Ranch Club and Maintenance Association:
    Letter for the Record to Senator Murkowski dated 8/20/18.....   160
    Letter for the Record to Senator Wyden dated 8/21/18.........   162
Custer County (SD):
    Letter for the Record........................................   164
deBuys, William:
    Letter for the Record........................................   165
Defenders of Wildlife:
    Letter for the Record........................................   166
Desert Tortoise Council:
    Letter for the Record........................................   368
Dine' Medicine Men's Association, Inc.:
    Resolution for the Record....................................   168
Energysolve LLC:
    Letter for the Record........................................   171
Farmer, Jane M.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   172
Fohl, Tim:
    Comments for the Record......................................   173
Gardner, Hon. Cory:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   174
Goodmaster, Kyle:
    Comments for the Record......................................   218
Gray, Michael and Debbie:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   219
Gray, Quintin:
    Comments for the Record......................................   220
Haggard, Gail:
    Comments for the Record......................................   280
Harris, Alan:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   221
Heinrich, Hon. Martin:
    Opening Statement............................................    30
Hickenlooper, Hon. John W.:
    Letter for the Record........................................     7
Higgins, Russ:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   222
Hoffmann, Richard:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   281
Hoover, Mitch:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   223
(The) Hopi Tribe:
    Statement for the Record on S. 2809..........................   283
    Letter for the Record on S. 2907.............................   290
Howey, Gregg:
    Letter for the Record........................................   225
H.R. 2075:
    Map of Deschutes Canyon - Steelhead Falls Wilderness Study 
      Area, dated 4/6/17.........................................    99
Jaffe, William B.:
    Comments for the Record......................................   306
Jamestown S'Klallam Tribe:
    Letter for the Record........................................   307
Jefferson County (OR) Board of County Commissioners:
    Letter for the Record........................................   308
Jefferson County (OR) Office of the Sheriff:
    Letter for the Record........................................   310
Johnson, Edward:
    Comments for the Record......................................   226
Jones, Scott:
    Letter for the Record........................................   228
Kauff, Dr. Priscilla F.:
    Comments for the Record......................................   312
Keyser, Marilynne:
    Opening Statement............................................    79
    Written Testimony............................................    81
Keyworth, William:
    Comments for the Record......................................   313
Klaber, Chris:
    Letter for the Record........................................   265
Lee, Hon. Mike:
    Opening Statement............................................     1
Lekson, Stephen H.:
    Comments for the Record......................................   315
Liebetrau, Lloyd J.:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   266
Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe:
    Letter for the Record........................................   316
Magnus, Ron:
    Letter for the Record........................................   268
McAlear, Christopher:
    Opening Statement............................................    47
    Written Testimony............................................    49
    Responses to Questions for the Record........................    96
Montgomery, Sarah:
    Letter for the Record........................................   318
Moretti, Tom:
    Letter for the Record........................................   269
Murray, Hon. Patty:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   319
National Indian Education Association:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   321
National Parks Conservation Association:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   323
National Trust for Historic Preservation:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   325
National Trust for Historic Preservation, et al.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   327
(The) Navajo Nation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   329
New Mexico Interfaith Power and Light:
    Comments for the Record......................................   330
New Mexico Wilderness Alliance:
    Letter for the Record........................................   331
Ojo Encino Chapter (of the Navajo Nation):
    Resolution OJOE 08-17-18/004 for the Record..................   333
Oliver, Tom and Lana:
    Comments for the Record......................................   270
Oregon Natural Desert Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   336
Ortman, Scott:
    Comments for the Record......................................   339
Ouray County (CO) Board of County Commissioners:
    Resolution Nos. 2016-009, 2011-007, and 2007-075.............     8
    Map of Proposed Whitehouse Additions to the Mt. Sneffels 
      Wilderness, dated 12/1/10..................................    15
Ouray Silver Mines, Inc.:
    Letter for the Record........................................    16
Outdoor Alliance:
    Letter for the Record........................................   340
Pacheco, Lisa:
    Letter for the Record........................................   346
Panek, Jerry:
    Letter for the Record........................................   271
Pertschuk, Amy:
    Comments for the Record......................................   347
Peterson, Mary Lou:
    Comments for the Record......................................   348
(The) Pew Charitable Trusts:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   349
Potter, Lisa, et al:
    Letter for the Record........................................   272
Pueblo of Acoma (NM):
    Statement for the Record.....................................   354
Quinault Indian Nation:
    Letter for the Record........................................   357
Reid, Ellen Bradbury:
    Comment for the Record.......................................   359
S. 1959:
    Map of Black Mountain Scenic Area--Proposed, dated 10/4/17...   100
    Map of Caliente Mountain Wilderness Area--Proposed, dated 5/
      31/17......................................................   101
    Map of Chumash Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed, dated 10/
      4/17.......................................................   102
    Map of Condor Ridge Scenic Area--Proposed, dated 10/4/17.....   103
    Map of Diablo Caliente Wilderness Area--Proposed, dated 10/4/
      17.........................................................   104
    Map of Dick Smith Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed (Map 1 
      of 2), dated 10/4/17.......................................   105
    Map of Dick Smith Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed (Map 2 
      of 2), dated 10/4/17.......................................   106
    Map of Fox Mountain Potential Wilderness, dated 10/4/17......   107
    Map of Garcia Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed, dated 10/
      4/17.......................................................   108
    Map of Machesna Mountain Potential Wilderness, dated 10/4/17.   109
    Map of Machesna Mountain Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed, 
      dated 10/4/17..............................................   110
    Map of Matilija Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed, dated 
      10/4/17....................................................   111
    Map of San Rafael Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed, dated 
      10/4/17....................................................   112
    Map of Santa Lucia Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed, dated 

      10/4/17....................................................   113
    Map of Sespe Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed, dated 10/4/
      17.........................................................   114
    Map of Soda Lake Wilderness--Proposed, dated 5/31/17.........   115
S. 2721:
    Map of Proposed Designations in the San Juan Mountains 
      Wilderness Act, dated 3/22/18..............................   116
    Map of Proposed Naturita Canyon Mineral Withdrawal Area, 
      dated 
      3/8/18.....................................................   117
    Map of Proposed Sheep Mountain Special Management Area, dated 

      3/8/2018...................................................   118
    Map of Proposed Whitehouse Additions to the Mt. Sneffels 
      Wilderness, dated 3/22/18..................................   119
    Map of Proposed Wilson, Sunshine, Black Face and San Bernardo 
      Additions to the Lizard Head Wilderness, dated 3/8/18......   120
S. 2907:
    Map of Chaco Cultural Heritage Withdrawal Area, dated 5/7/18 
      (Sub-surface)..............................................   121
    Map of Chaco Cultural Heritage Withdrawal Area, dated 5/14/18 
      (Surface)..................................................   122
San Juan County (CO) Board of County Commissioners:
    Letter for the Record........................................    17
San Miguel Bike Alliance:
    Letter for the Record........................................    18
San Miguel County (CO) Board of County Commissioners:
    Letter for the Record........................................    19
Sexton, Rick:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   274
Shinnecock Indian Nation:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   360
Shoenfeld, Jane:
    Comments for the Record......................................   362
Sinfield, Brenda:
    Letter for the Record........................................   363
Sofaer, Anna:
    Comments for the Record......................................   364
Southwest Native Cultures:
    Letter for the Record........................................   365
Spotts, Richard:
    Letter for the Record........................................   366
Stefanics, Hon. Liz:
    Comments for the Record......................................   374
Tanaka, Dale:
    Letter for the Record........................................   275
Tapp, Nancy:
    Comment for the Record.......................................   375
Telluride Ski and Golf Company:
    Letter for the Record........................................    20
Terranova, Titus N.:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   277
Thomas, Alan:
    Comments for the Record......................................   278
Thune, Hon. John:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   376
Till, Roy:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   279
Town Council of Ridgway (CO):
    Resolution No. 16-03 for the Record..........................    21
Town of Mountain Village (CO):
    Letter for the Record........................................    23
Town of Ophir (CO):
    Letter for the Record dated 5/5/16...........................    24
    Letter for the Record dated 5/7/18...........................    25
Town of Silverton (CO) Board of Trustees:
    Letter for the Record........................................    26
Town of Telluride (CO):
    Letter for the Record dated 4/22/16..........................    27
    Letter for the Record dated 4/25/17..........................    28
Trout Unlimited:
    Letter for the Record to Senator Bennet dated 6/25/18........    29
    Letter for the Record dated 8/22/18..........................   378
Udall, Hon. Tom:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   385
Utah Wilderness Coalition:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   387
Ute Indian Tribe:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   397
Vallo, Brian D.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   402
Van Dyke, Dr. Ruth M.:
    Letter for the Record........................................   403
Ward, Harry:
    Letter for the Record........................................   404
Western Governors' Association:
    Letter for the Record........................................   405
    Policy Resolution 2016-04....................................   406
Wild Olympics Campaign:
    Letter for the Record........................................   409
WildEarth Guardians:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   428
(The) Wilderness Society:
    Letter for the Record........................................   431
(The) Wilderness Society, et al.:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   438
Wilderness Watch:
    Statement for the Record.....................................   443
Wyden, Hon. Ron:
    Opening Statement............................................    83

----------
The text for each of the bills which were addressed in this hearing can 
be found on the committee's website at: https://www.energy.senate.gov/
public/index.cfm/2018/8/subcommittee-on-public-lands-forests-and-
mining-legislative-hearing-08-22-2018


                          PENDING LEGISLATION

                              ----------                              


                       WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 22, 2018

                               U.S. Senate,
 Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining,
                 Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m. in 
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Mike Lee, 
presiding.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE, 
                     U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH

    Senator Lee [presiding]. The Subcommittee will come to 
order.
    The Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining is 
holding its third legislative hearing of this year to receive 
testimony on 15 different pieces of legislation pending before 
the Senate.
    There are a number of bills on the agenda today. In the 
interest of time, I will highlight just one of them as we begin 
our proceedings today.
    First, I would like to mention my bill, S. 3297, the 
Washington County, Utah, Public Land Act. This is the companion 
to a House bill sponsored by my colleague, Congressman Chris 
Stewart. It is the product of years of public outreach and 
collaboration involving state, local, and federal officials, 
local residents, and recreation and conservation groups.
    Washington County has been working diligently for more than 
20 years to balance the needs of a rapidly growing population 
with the protections for the Mojave desert tortoise, a 
threatened species under the Endangered Species Act. The 
County's efforts began in earnest in 1996 when the state and 
local officials there partnered with BLM and the U.S. Fish and 
Wildlife Service to develop a countywide Habitat Conservation 
Plan, or HCP, to protect the tortoise while ensuring continued 
economic development and recreational access. Thanks to the 
County's efforts the region now boasts some of the highest 
desert tortoise populations in the animal's native range which 
spans parts of California, Nevada, Arizona and, of course, 
Utah. However, the HCP expired in 2016 and the County is 
currently administering it under a temporary extension while 
the County negotiates a renewal with the U.S. Department of the 
Interior.
    At the same time, Washington County officials are 
continuing to prepare for substantial growth in their 
communities. The population of St. George, Utah, which is the 
largest city in Washington County, increased four percent 
between 2016 and 2017, making it the fastest growing 
metropolitan area, not just in Utah but in the entire nation. 
To accommodate the growth, local officials have determined that 
it is necessary to construct new utility lines and a stretch of 
road north of St. George to alleviate downtown traffic 
congestion. Because of the rugged topography of the region, the 
only viable route for the road is through a small section of 
the HCP.
    The County attempted to secure the necessary right-of-way 
for the road in 2009 when county officials worked with federal 
and state officials on a countywide land management bill that 
directed the Interior Department to ``identify one or more 
alternatives for a northern transportation route in the 
county.'' That bill passed as part of the Omnibus Public Lands 
Management Act of 2009. Yet now, almost a decade later, the 
Department of the Interior has not permitted a northern 
transportation route that meets this rapidly growing County's 
needs.
    My bill, S. 3297, would enhance protections for the desert 
tortoise and provide Washington County the flexibility it needs 
to manage its rapidly growing human population. The bill would 
renew the HCP agreement for 25 years and grant a right-of-way 
for the northern transportation corridor. The right-of-way in 
this bill was designed in consultation with federal and state 
tortoise biologists and traffic engineers to minimize habitat 
fragmentation. It would run just over four miles long and cross 
less than two miles of the HCP. In total, it would impact 0.2 
percent of the entire HCP and displace between 10 and 20 
tortoises which would be relocated elsewhere within the HCP. In 
addition, the bill would add almost 7,000 acres of prime desert 
tortoise habitat to the existing HCP which, according to recent 
surveys, would enhance protections for potentially hundreds of 
additional tortoises. In short, S. 3297 would be a win for both 
the County and for the desert tortoise.
    I would also like to highlight S. 1572, the Helium 
Extraction Act, which is sponsored by my colleague from Utah, 
Senator Hatch. Helium is indispensable to our defense, space, 
medical, and tech industries and was recently included on the 
Department of the Interior's critical minerals list. However, 
domestic and global helium production has declined in recent 
years, even when demand for it seems to be on the increase. 
Additionally, all helium in the Federal Helium Reserve, which 
supplies more than 40 percent of domestic helium demand, will 
be sold by 2021. Taken together, these dynamics create 
significant uncertainty about how to meet future domestic 
helium needs. S. 1572 would help alleviate these concerns by 
boosting domestic production of helium on federal lands. 
Specifically, the bill would ensure that helium extracted from 
federal land would be treated the same way as oil and gas. This 
would enable extracting entities to extend their leases beyond 
their initial ten-year terms and ultimately encourage more 
consistent helium production. I support this bill, and I am 
glad it is included on our agenda this morning.
    With that, we would be turning to Senator Wyden for his 
opening remarks. I understand that he is running behind for a 
moment. So until such time as Senator Wyden gets back, we are 
going to turn to a couple of other members who would like to be 
recognized to speak.
    Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Heinrich. Chairman, should we let Senator Bennet 
give his opening remarks and then I would love to give some as 
well, but since he is here----
    Senator Lee. That works.
    Senator Heinrich. Yes.
    Senator Lee. We are grateful to have Senator Bennet from 
Colorado. Colorado is a great neighboring state to my State of 
Utah, as is New Mexico, even though we share only a tiny spot 
of land as our border.
    Senator Heinrich. So much common ground.
    Senator Lee. Exactly, so much common ground.
    [Laughter.]
    Senator Bennet.

             STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL F. BENNET, 
                   U.S. SENATOR FROM COLORADO

    Senator Bennet. I thank you, Chairman Lee, very much for 
having me here, and Senator Heinrich, thank you for your 
courtesy.
    We do, we live in the most beautiful part of the United 
States of America. So I think we should all celebrate that and 
that is actually what brings me here today. I am grateful to 
you for holding the hearing and giving me the chance to say a 
few words about the San Juan Mountains Wilderness Act.
    Four months ago, I walked to the Senate Floor with San 
Miguel County Commissioner, Hilary Cooper, and her daughter, 
Mia, to introduce this bill. I asked Hilary to join me because 
this bill is a result of years of hard work from leaders like 
her in Southwest Colorado. Hilary asked her daughter, Mia, to 
join because this bill and the conservation of public lands is 
fundamentally about the legacy we pass on to the next 
generation of Americans.
    Today, two other County Commissioners who helped shape this 
bill are here, Joan May from San Miguel County and Pete McKay 
from San Juan County, because they know how fundamental the San 
Juan Mountains are to our state's identity and our outdoor 
economy.
    For nearly a decade, leaders like Hilary, Joan, and Pete 
have worked through a collaborative, ground up process to 
protect key areas in the San Juan Mountains. They have spent 
countless hours bringing together local businesses, ranchers, 
landowners, and outdoor enthusiasts to make sure the proposal 
reflects the diverse interests of the region, and the result is 
a balanced piece of legislation. If passed, the bill would 
protect 61,000 acres in the heart of the San Juan Mountains. It 
would preserve multiple alpine peaks, including two of our 
state's most striking fourteeners, Mount Sneffels and Wilson 
Peak. It would establish the McKenna Peak Wilderness, an area 
known for its sandstone badlands and forested mesas. It would 
also protect Ice Lake Basin, a beloved hiking destination in 
Silverton, Colorado, one that my friend, Commissioner McKay, 
hikes every summer as part of the Sheep Mountain Special 
Management Area. These special management designations allow 
for existing uses such as helicopter skiing in the Hard Rock 
100 Endurance Race to continue in the area.
    Overall, the San Juan Mountains Wilderness Area has an 
incredible amount of support. Ouray, San Miguel and San Juan 
Counties support this bill, along with the Governor of 
Colorado. Key local interests like the Telluride Ski Area and 
the San Miguel Bike Alliance support the bill. Even Ouray 
Silver Mines, the only active hard rock mine in the vicinity, 
supports the wilderness designation near them. I would ask to 
enter each of these support letters into the record.
    Mr. Chairman, I would ask to put some letters into the 
record.
    Senator Lee. Without objection.
    Senator Bennet. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    [Letters of support for Senate bill 2721 follow:]
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]    
    
       
    Senator Bennet. Let me just close by saying this bill is a 
credit to the diligence and vision of the people of Southwest 
Colorado who care deeply about the future of our public lands 
and the San Juan Mountains.
    Thank you for considering this bill today, Mr. Chairman, 
and I look forward to working with members of the Committee to 
advance it in the weeks ahead.
    Thanks again to my colleague from New Mexico for his 
courtesy as well.
    Senator Lee. Thank you.
    Senator Heinrich.

              STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH, 
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO

    Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
    I want to thank you for holding this hearing today. In 
particular, with regard to two bills that are important to New 
Mexicans and our public lands. Senator Tom Udall and I recently 
introduced legislation to permanently protect the Chaco Canyon 
area from federal oil and gas development. Chaco Canyon is both 
a world-class cultural resource and a place of immense 
importance to New Mexico's native communities. It is one of 
only three world heritage sites in New Mexico as well as a 
sacred site still in use by local tribal communities to this 
day.
    This legislation will help make permanent protections for 
portions of the greater Chaco landscape that fall outside of 
the park boundary and preserve the dark night sky from light 
pollution. This landscape is incredibly complicated with state, 
private, tribal, and individually allotted lands checkerboarded 
together around this unique landscape and the park itself.
    For a number of years now there has been an understanding 
between the BLM, the industry, local communities, tribes, and 
historic preservation advocates that no development would 
happen within ten miles of the park boundary in order to 
minimize impacts on the park itself, on its viewshed, and on 
related cultural resources. This legislation formalizes that 
understanding. It is an important piece of a complete solution 
to protect the greater Chaco landscape, and I look forward to 
hearing from the Bureau of Land Management today about the 
agency's plans for this region.
    Second, Senator Flake and I have introduced legislation to 
improve the process for land exchanges between state trust 
lands and western states and the federal public land management 
agencies. Our bill would address the checkerboard land 
ownership pattern that is all too common in the West by 
exchanging state land inholdings within federal conservation 
areas, like parks and wilderness areas, for lands of equal 
value that are more likely to produce revenue for the schools 
and hospitals that benefit from development of state trust 
lands.
    We have seen the need for these kinds of exchanges in 
places like the Rio Grande del Norte National Monument and the 
Sabinoso Wilderness, and I look forward to working with the 
Committee to make improvements to the existing exchange 
process.
    Thank you to the Committee for the consideration of both 
these bills. I look forward to hearing from all of our 
witnesses today, Mr. Chair.
    Senator Lee. Great. Thank you.
    Seeing that we do not have any other members right now to 
make opening statements, it is now time to hear from our 
witnesses. We have three great witnesses joining us today, and 
we welcome them to come up and sit at the table. The first is 
Mr. Glenn Casamassa, the Associate Deputy Chief of the U.S. 
Forest Service. We welcome you, sir. The second is Mr. 
Christopher McAlear, the Assistant Director of the National 
Conservation Lands and Community Partnerships at the Bureau of 
Land Management. And the third is Ms. Marilynne Keyser, the 
President of Friends and Neighbors of the Deschutes Canyon 
Area. Welcome.
    At the end of witness testimonies members will be able to 
ask questions. Your full written testimony will, of course, be 
made part of the record for this hearing. Please keep your 
statements, if you can, to five minutes so that we can have 
time for questions. I look forward to hearing your testimony.
    Mr. Casamassa, please proceed.

STATEMENT OF GLENN CASAMASSA, ASSOCIATE DEPUTY CHIEF, NATIONAL 
    FOREST SYSTEM, U.S. FOREST SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF 
                          AGRICULTURE

    Mr. Casamassa. Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Wyden, members 
of the Subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify on 
behalf of USDA and the Forest Service regarding the bills under 
consideration here today. My written testimony has been 
provided for the record, and I'll be focusing on the eight 
bills that affect national forest management.
    To begin, Senate bill 2297, the Custer County Airport 
Conveyance Act, which would convey national forest lands for 
market value considerations for the continued operation of the 
Custer County Regional Airport. Portions of the airport already 
occupy the lands in question which have lost their national 
forest character and conveyance would allow for improved 
management of this important regional asset.
    Regarding Senate bill 2078, the Advancing Conservation and 
Education Act, USDA supports adjustments in land ownership that 
benefit the management of the National Forest System while 
allowing states to better manage land grant parcels for their 
original purposes. As the bill applies to the Forest Service, 
it would provide a method that is not available under existing 
authority to achieve these goals. Thus, we are not in a 
position to judge the effects of Senate bill 2078 on the public 
lands so we defer to the BLM on its views on this bill.
    With Senate bill 3245, the Lake Fannin Conveyance Act, the 
Forest Service would like to continue working with 
representatives from Fannin County, the bill sponsors, and the 
Subcommittee to explore a long-term, financially sustainable 
solution for maintenance and use of the historic facilities at 
Lake Fannin that may not require a conveyance of the lands. We 
believe we are making progress toward that goal.
    The USDA supports Senate bill 3325, the Eligibility for 
National Grasslands for Grazing Leases and Permits, which would 
extend to existing grazing management policies to National 
Grasslands and the National Forests in the Eastern U.S. We 
would like to work with the sponsor and the Subcommittee on 
minor corrections and additional language to help clarify the 
management of grazing permits.
    I would also like to work with the sponsors and 
Subcommittee on minor technical corrections to Senate bill 
2160, the Protect Collaboration for Healthier Forests Act. USDA 
supports the idea of arbitration as a tool to help streamline 
project decisions while maintaining public engagement and 
input. We appreciate the bill provides a way to test 
arbitration in a pilot program with a manageable project 
environment and within specified sideboards.
    Senate bill 483, the Wild Olympic Wilderness and Wild and 
Scenic Rivers Act, would designate new wilderness, expand 
existing wilderness, establish wilderness areas and designate 
certain wild and scenic rivers in the Olympic National Forest 
in Washington. USDA supports the intent of this legislation to 
recognize the importance of wilderness and wild and scenic 
rivers but has some concerns we would like to work with the 
Subcommittee and the bill sponsors to address. We defer to the 
Department of the Interior for their views on the bill.
    Senate bill 1959, the Central Coast Heritage Protection 
Act, designates land in the Los Padres National Forest in 
California as wilderness, makes additions to existing 
wilderness, and designates potential wilderness areas, scenic 
areas, and a national recreation trail. We appreciate the 
ongoing, multiyear efforts of the sponsor and Subcommittee 
toward improving the manageability of the multiple areas 
identified in this legislation. And while we support certain 
designations, we would like to continue to work with the 
sponsor and the Subcommittee on other provisions within the 
bill.
    Senate bill 2721, the San Juan Mountains Wilderness Act, 
would designate additions to existing wilderness, create 
special management areas, and withdraw certain lands from the 
mining and mineral leasing laws on the Grand Mesa, Uncompahgre 
and Gunnison National Forests. USDA appreciates the sponsor's 
collaborative approach and the local involvement on these. The 
Forests are currently revising their Land and Resource 
Management Plan which would include formal wilderness 
recommendations to Congress when finalized. Consequently, while 
all these areas considered have wilderness characteristics, 
USDA feels that a formal position would be premature while the 
public analysis process continues. Further, USDA supports 
domestic energy and mineral production, including critical 
minerals, as an important use of the National Forest System, 
while we stand ready to provide environmental, social and 
economic analysis as Congress weighs the important 
considerations and consequences of permanent withdrawal. USDA 
defers to the BLM for their views on this bill as it affects 
the public lands.
    This concludes my prepared statements. Thank you for the 
opportunity to be here today, and I look forward to answering 
any questions you may have.
    [The prepared statements of Mr. Casamassa follow:]
    
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    Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Casamassa.
    Mr. McAlear.

STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER McALEAR, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, NATIONAL 
  CONSERVATION LANDS & COMMUNITY PARTNERSHIPS, BUREAU OF LAND 
          MANAGEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

    Mr. McAlear. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning to 
you and members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to present testimony today.
    I'm Chris McAlear, the Assistant Director for the National 
Conservation Lands and Community Partnerships at the Bureau of 
Land Management.
    I'll briefly summarize the written statements concerning 
nine bills on today's agenda related to the Department of the 
Interior.
    Senate bill 1572, the Helium Extraction Act, would amend 
the Mineral Leasing Act to allow the continued production of 
helium from oil and gas leases. The BLM supports Senate bill 
1572 as it allows for the development of this critical resource 
and supports the Administration's priority of securing reliable 
supplies of critical minerals.
    Senate bill 1959, the Central Coast Heritage Protection 
Act, establishes or expands a number of conservation 
designations on lands managed by BLM and the Forest Service in 
Central California, including three new wilderness areas within 
the Carrizo Plain National Monument. The Department would like 
the opportunity to work with sponsors and the Subcommittee to 
address some issues and technical concerns.
    Senate bill 2078, the Advancing Conservation and Education 
Act, addresses the scattered nature of state land parcels in 13 
Western states by establishing a new mechanism for the states 
to relinquish state trust land and federally designated 
conservation areas and select replacement land in exchange. The 
Department supports the goals of Senate bill 2078 which are 
consistent with the Secretary's priorities to improve 
recreation, public access and conservation stewardship.
    Senate bill 2721, the San Juan Mountain Wilderness Area, 
establishes or expands a number of conservation designations of 
lands managed by the BLM and the Forest Service in Colorado, 
including the McKenna Peak Wilderness in San Miguel County. The 
Department would like to work with sponsors to address some 
issues and technical concerns.
    Senate bill 2809, the Emory County Public Land Management 
Act, provides direction for the future management of certain 
federal lands in Emory County, Utah. The Department supports 
Senate bill 2809 which we believe is consistent with the 
Secretary's priorities to improve recreation, public access, 
and collaborative conservation. We welcome the opportunity to 
work with sponsors and the Subcommittee on a few clarifying 
amendments and technical issues.
    Senate bill 2907, the Chaco Canyon Heritage Protection Act, 
would withdraw land surrounding the Chaco Cultural Natural 
Historical Park in Northwestern New Mexico. Striking the 
appropriate balance for public land use is an important mission 
that the Department takes seriously. We want to work with the 
sponsors to identify the best approach to protecting this 
specific special area as the BLM continues to evaluate and 
update its land management plan.
    Senate bill 3297, the Washington County, Utah, Public Land 
Act, would require that the BLM renew and amend the desert 
tortoise Habitat Conservation Plan, amend three resource 
management plans, and designate transportation and utility 
corridors through the Beaver Dam Wash and Red Cliffs National 
Conservation Areas. The Department supports the bill's goal of 
providing economic certainty to the communities of Washington 
County. We would like to work with the sponsor on a few 
clarifying amendments, timeframes, and to ensure consistency of 
implementation with other laws.
    H.R. 2075, the Crooked River Fire Protection Act, modifies 
the eastern boundary of the Deschutes Canyon-Steelhead Falls 
Wilderness Study Area and releases approximately 830 acres from 
WSA management. The Department supports H.R. 2075 which is 
consistent with the Secretary's priority of being a good 
neighbor and better serving local communities in the West.
    Senate bill 1787 would reauthorize the USGS National 
Cooperative Geologic Mapping Program, which is the nation's 
authoritative source of production for geologic maps. The 
Department supports the reauthorization of this important 
program. I will bring any questions you have about Senate bill 
1787 back to the USGS for response.
    Thank you again for this opportunity to testify, and I'm 
happy to answer any questions.
    [The prepared statements of Mr. McAlear follow:]
    
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    Senator Lee. Thank you, sir.
    Ms. Keyser.

STATEMENT OF MARILYNNE KEYSER, PRESIDENT, FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS 
                  OF THE DESCHUTES CANYON AREA

    Ms. Keyser. Thank you.
    My name is Marilynne Keyser. I'm a 17-year resident of 
Crooked River Ranch in central Oregon. Crooked River Ranch is 
an unincorporated, 11,000-acre, residential community governed 
by an HOA, a homeowners' association. My husband and I chose to 
build our home on the rim of the Deschutes Canyon because of 
its proximity to the Deschutes Canyon-Steelhead Falls 
Wilderness Study Area. I'm also the President of the Friends 
and Neighbors of the Deschutes Canyon Area, also known as FANs.
    Thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony on House 
bill 2075. FANs is a local stewardship organization based at 
Crooked River Ranch that was started six years ago by neighbors 
who love the incredible river canyons bordering Crooked River 
Ranch and believe in the importance of local involvement in 
public lands management. With our nearly 400 members and an 
additional 600 participants and volunteers, our mission is to 
preserve and restore the wild landscapes of the Whychus-
Deschutes area, which includes the Deschutes Canyon-Steelhead 
Falls Wilderness Study Area that will be impacted by H.R. 2075.
    FANs has long recognized the need to implement fire risk 
reduction measures on both public and private lands in and 
around Crooked River Ranch. We worked for over a year with 
others in the community, including the fire chief, the HOA 
Board President and the appropriate federal agencies to develop 
a collaborative concept that would ensure Crooked River Ranch 
is better protected from wildfire while also resolving the 
status of the entire WSA.
    A concept emerged from those meetings that is a true win-
win solution. The approach would result in fire risk mitigation 
activities in the form of fuels treatment on BLM lands adjacent 
to Crooked River Ranch, wilderness protection for certain 
qualified public lands, and release of certain lands from WSA 
status.
    Our organization is not opposed to WSA release. In fact, it 
was FANs representatives on the working group that introduced 
the idea as a part of the collaborative process. But we have 
several serious concerns about the approach of H.R. 2075.
    First, removing 832 acres from the WSA alone will not 
ensure that necessary fuels reduction to reduce fire risk will 
take place and that the fragile rim habitat will be protected. 
FANs believes that the released lands should be designated as a 
special management area to prioritize fire prevention and 
define appropriate and responsible recreation for the area.
    Two, abandoning the local stakeholder process, H.R. 2075 
simply adopts a single recommendation while ignoring the 
remainder. FANs believes that this action ignores Oregon's long 
history of balanced and locally-driven legislation that enjoys 
broad support.
    Three, the bill does not resolve the status of the public 
lands currently managed as the Deschutes Canyon-Steelhead Falls 
WSA. FANs believes that the land that would remain after the 
release of the 832 acres should be permanently protected as 
wilderness.
    Four, the bill does not address protection for Lower 
Whychus Creek, a tributary of the Deschutes River. Many 
organizations are working to preserve this central Oregon 
jewel, including the Deschutes Land Trust, that has acquired 
much of the private land holdings. FANs believes that the 
public lands in the lower reaches of Whychus Canyon need to be 
permanently protected as either wilderness or a wild and scenic 
river.
    Although the public lands impacted by H.R. 2075 are located 
in our backyard at Crooked River Ranch, Whychus-Deschutes 
contains outstanding recreation opportunities, one of the 
highest concentrations of cultural sites and artifacts in our 
region, and critical habitat for native plants, fish, and 
wildlife. All of these resources are currently threatened by 
illegal off-road vehicle abuse, recreation overuse, and 
vandalism. Certain public lands in this area need and deserve 
permanent protection.
    Finally, public land managers must have the direction and 
the resources to tackle these complex and serious issues. FANs 
believes a comprehensive solution based on true local 
collaboration is possible for this area. I urge the Committee 
to expand this bill to address the concerns of all the 
stakeholders of this incredible wild landscape.
    Thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify on H.R. 
2075, and I'm willing to entertain any questions.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Keyser follows:]
    
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    Senator Lee. Thank you, Ms. Keyser.
    Thanks to each of you for your opening statements.
    Before we begin five-minute rounds of questions, we have 
now been joined by our Ranking Democrat, Senator Wyden, and we 
are going to turn some time over to him.

                 STATEMENT OF HON. RON WYDEN, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM OREGON

    Senator Wyden. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I will be 
brief. I know colleagues have been waiting as well.
    I just want to take a couple minutes to talk about a bill 
that is very important in my home state. It is called the 
Crooked River Ranch Fire Protection Act. We really got into 
this issue--my wife and I and our kids had just had the good 
fortune of having great snow at [Mt.] Bachelor and we came down 
from the mountain and we basically had a town meeting. The 
whole family was there in January 2015 in Bend, and we had not 
really even gotten out of our snow boots when this legislation 
came up, the Crooked River Ranch Fire Protection Act.
    And, well, let's cut to the bottom line here. We all feel 
very, very strongly about protecting the West from fire. These 
are not your grandfather's fires.
    Senator Heinrich and my colleague from Nevada, Senator 
Cortez Masto, understand how important this is. These are 
galloping fires that cross rivers, so we have to have strong 
protections to deal with fire and that is central to this 
question.
    Representative Walden introduced the Crooked River Ranch 
Fire Protection Act. There are a number of challenges that face 
residents at Crooked River Ranch. Many of the homes at Crooked 
River Ranch are adjacent to the Deschutes Canyon-Steelhead 
Falls Wilderness Area and one of the region's most iconic 
landscapes. The Crooked River legislation adjusts the boundary 
of the wilderness study area in the hopes that fire prevention 
can be made more aggressive to protect the neighboring homes 
within the Ranch.
    And as I said, Senator Cortez Masto, Senator Heinrich, 
myself, Senator Flake, Senator Daines, we all are there in 
terms of dealing with fire. That is what the legislation to end 
fire borrowing was all about. That is what the Forest Service 
did last week in response to my request, basically laying out a 
program for prioritizing reducing hazardous fuels in the most 
dangerous areas.
    So you have a big group of Western Senators that are on the 
program, but there is another set of issues that we have to 
address. And that is, for example, what is going to happen to 
homes and backyards if the public land nearby is not managed 
properly? And the community wants to work with us, wants to 
work with the Congressman from the area, Congressman Walden, to 
deal with these issues.
    I want to close by welcoming Marilynne Keyser, who cut 
short a vacation and various family plans to get here. She has 
been coming to our town meetings and we want a citizen-driven 
solution to this, but then one that incorporates everyone's 
input.
    I also want to welcome Mr. Casamassa. He is going to be the 
next Region 6 Director. We look forward to working with him at 
home.
    One last point, if I might. Senator Hatch's Emory County 
bill--my partner on the Senate Finance Committee, has been 
working on this for many years in working to balance 
conservation and other management uses. Everybody knows public 
lands bills, and we westerners know you never get everything 
you want. You never get everything you believe you ought to 
have, but the question is, can you find a path to actually go 
forward and address concerns? I have indicated to Chairman Lee 
that I am going to work very closely with him to see if we can 
work this out with Chairman Hatch who is retiring at the end of 
this year. I think this is an important effort and I want to 
work with the two of you, both friends, to get it done.
    Thank you.
    Senator Lee. Thank you very much, Senator Wyden.
    We will now begin five-minute rounds of questioning, 
alternating between Republicans and Democrats.
    I would like to start with Mr. McAlear.
    As I mentioned in my opening statement, the Omnibus Public 
Lands Management Act of 2009 directed the Bureau of Land 
Management to identify alternatives for a northern 
transportation route through Washington County, Utah. Now the 
Records of Decision have been finalized for all of the resource 
management plans in the County but, nonetheless, no route was 
identified. Can you tell me why the Bureau of Land Management 
did not comply with that specific requirement before signing 
the Records of Decision?
    Mr. McAlear. Thank you, Senator.
    This Administration and Secretary Zinke are committed to 
ensuring that the Department be a good neighbor to its 
communities across the rural West, and we look forward to 
working with you, St. George, and Washington County on a more 
constructive way to address these important infrastructure 
needs going forward.
    Senator Lee. But, again, it has been a while since this has 
happened. I would like to remind the Bureau that the 2009 bill, 
in addition to the fact that it was passed almost a decade ago, 
required the development of a comprehensive travel management 
plan including, specifically, the identification of a northern 
transportation route in Washington County, within three years. 
That part of it was required by that law to be done within 
three years, and it has now been nearly a decade since that 
bill was passed. When will the BLM finally identify 
alternatives for that route?
    Mr. McAlear. So the BLM is currently working to resolve 
this issue. We are working not only through this bill but also 
working on getting the Habitat Conservation Plan renewed. And 
this Administration and Secretary Zinke support getting this 
infrastructure in place for the County.
    Senator Lee. Okay.
    I want to impress upon you, as much as I am capable of 
communicating, and I do so respectfully but with great urgency, 
the fact that this needs to happen. More than three times the 
amount of time identified by the statute has now passed and 
this needs to be done yesterday. It needs to be done 
immediately.
    Also sir, once the helium reserve is retired in 2021, where 
will U.S. helium users get most of their supply? What will they 
rely on?
    Mr. McAlear. So, I think from the Federal Helium Reserve, 
the short answer is that we don't know.
    Our testimony does point to the benefits of a royalty-in-
kind program that we presented to Congress that would provide 
federal agencies with an assured source of helium, also now a 
critical mineral, and we would like to have further discussions 
with you about that.
    Senator Lee. Okay.
    I think it is important we make sure that there is a 
thriving, robust market and that we do everything we can to 
make sure that we do not put impediments in the way of the 
development of that market within the United States.
    Ms. Keyser, you reference in your testimony that H.R. 2074 
is not comprehensive enough to address the threat of fire to 
the community and that additional designations for other lands 
are needed.
    Can you help me understand how it is that additional 
special designations such as putting the remainder of the WSA 
into wilderness would, in fact, at the end of the day, reduce 
the threat of fire to the community?
    Ms. Keyser. Thank you, Senator Lee.
    The point of that comment in my written testimony is that 
simply releasing the land, the 832 acres which is the rim of 
the Deschutes Canyon, without direction for what needs to take 
place on that land--fuels reduction and also protection for the 
resource itself--might, in fact, lead to nothing being done on 
that released land. So we feel strongly that there needs to be 
direction and a special management area designation that 
requires that fuels reduction to happen.
    And with respect to the risk, the habitat risk on the 
canyon rim, I think the main concern here would be not to have 
vehicular traffic on that rim, ATVs and that sort of thing. So 
that's something that you could get through the planning 
process if, in fact, a special management area was created for 
the released land.
    Senator Lee. In fact, in theory, you could have an increase 
if there is no fuel reduction. There is a theoretical 
possibility that you could actually be increasing the risk of 
fire if there is no fuel reduction.
    Ms. Keyser. That's true.
    And the other piece is if you don't restrict vehicular 
traffic out there you could also add to the risk of additional 
wildfire. So, yes, we truly support the movement of the release 
of these lands for that purpose, but we need to make sure that 
it happens and happens quickly.
    Senator Lee. Thank you.
    Senator Wyden.
    Senator Wyden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    As I indicated, we don't take a back seat to anybody in 
terms of reducing fire risk. Senator Crapo and I, as folks on 
this Committee know, spent six years and got 270 groups, 
industry groups, environmental groups, and others to get us 
back to emphasizing fire prevention. So we are all there on 
that, every single Democrat, every single Republican, lots of 
sweat equity in this Committee on that.
    I imagine a lot of folks at home are watching this on the 
live stream. Folks at Crooked River want to know how their land 
is actually going to get managed.
    Mr. McAlear, I want to get to the issue that apparently 
your agency does not own all the land in question. I quote, 
``The Department determined that a portion of the wilderness 
study area may fall under the administrative jurisdiction of 
the U.S. Department of Agriculture.'' So my question for you, 
Mr. McAlear, BLM, do you know how much land is in question and 
how that will affect management?
    Mr. McAlear. So, thank you, Senator.
    We will continue working with the Forest Service on any 
boundary movements. Right now, I think that there is some 
confusion on exactly where that boundary is, but we have a good 
partnership with the Forest Service. We'll continue working 
with them. And----
    Senator Wyden. But would it be fair to say, because I know 
time is short and my colleagues have been, the Senators from 
Nevada and New Mexico have been so deferential, it seems to me 
it is clear that this is going to take some work before we get 
this out of Committee. Is that correct?
    Mr. McAlear. It's going to take some work, and we would 
love to be able to work with you.
    Senator Wyden. Very good.
    Mr. Casamassa, I just want to be clear that you are going 
to, because you always have, you all are going to work with us 
and try to deal with this. This is to say, I think folks at 
Crooked River understand how serious this is as it relates to 
fire, and they also want to make sure that some of these other 
issues are answered. So you will work with us, just as Mr. 
McAlear is talking about?
    Mr. Casamassa. Yes, for sure.
    Senator Wyden. Very good, very good.
    Now one other question on this for both of you.
    The Department of the Interior recognizes, in your 
testimony, the importance of addressing management on the 
larger Deschutes Canyon-Steelhead Falls Wilderness Study Area. 
I gather that this is another area where we can work 
cooperatively.
    If Senator Merkley, my colleague from Oregon, and I put 
together a stakeholder-driven public process, would your agency 
be willing to participate?
    Mr. Casamassa. In terms of that's the way that I would 
advocate that we move forward with recognizing that there's 
multiple jurisdictions, communities of interest and community 
leaders that all share in managing these lands. And I think 
it's important to work through that within a collaborative 
fashion.
    Senator Wyden. Let the record show that is a yes.
    Mr. McAlear?
    Mr. McAlear. Thank you.
    And yes, of course.
    Senator Wyden. Great.
    Ms. Keyser, one question for you, if I might.
    Again, we cannot say enough about how serious this issue of 
fire is all about. I hope sometime soon to get home again to 
talk to the communities that have been getting clobbered. I 
mean, I think these fire problems are basically creating clear 
air refugees because people are traipsing around trying to find 
clean air.
    So fire continues to be right at the top of what the 
communities are concerned about. What other management focus or 
reforms would you like to see that would protect you and your 
neighbors?
    Ms. Keyser. Well, in addition to what we've discussed and 
what this bill contains, Senator?
    Senator Wyden. Yes.
    Ms. Keyser. Well, as I said in my testimony, there needs to 
be both--there needs to be fire reduction on both private and 
public lands. And one of the problems, well, at Crooked River 
Ranch our HOA has done a fabulous job of doing fuels reduction 
work on the common land owned by the HOA.
    One of our problems is that there's excessive vegetation on 
private land in Crooked River Ranch that needs to be addressed 
as well, and very few landowners have actually done what needs 
to be done to make their property safe in a wildland urban 
interface. So that's one issue.
    Senator Wyden. Okay.
    I again want to thank my colleagues for allowing me to go 
first. And your point is one we stress here and that is these 
big fires, they do not know any kind of boundaries, you know.
    Ms. Keyser. They don't.
    Senator Wyden. We had one that leaped the Columbia River. 
Rivers always used to be a break, so this is unprecedented. And 
these fires, particularly these infernos, do not stop at state 
or private lands. To your point with respect to acknowledging 
that as part of any solution is spot on.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, colleagues.
    Senator Lee. Thank you, Senator Wyden.
    Senator Daines.
    Senator Daines. Thank you, Chairman Lee.
    As you know, six million acres have already burned during 
this year's wildfire season. In fact, in Montana alone, we have 
over 900 fires occurring to date.
    I applaud Secretary Purdue's new strategy to work more 
closely with states to reduce the threat of wildfires. I told 
the Secretary last week this is a breath of fresh air in the 
midst of a lot of smoky air that we see across Montana.
    Unfortunately, in Montana and Idaho especially, there is 
more than a decade of obstructionist litigation that has slowed 
forest management projects, many of which include treatments to 
reduce the risks of wildfire.
    I have a bill with Senator Risch and Senator Crapo, the 
Protect Collaboration for Healthier Forests Act, which would 
establish a pilot program in Region One to resolve disputes 
against forest management projects through arbitration rather 
than the courtroom. To be eligible for arbitration, the 
projects would need to be developed through a collaborative 
process. We are going to incentivize collaboratives, and they 
would have to reduce the risk of wildfire.
    An arbitration pilot would ensure swifter resolution. It 
has bipartisan roots. In fact, the Forest Service during both 
the Obama Administration and the Trump Administration has 
supported establishing this authority. It is time for Congress, 
in my opinion, to give the Forest Service this tool.
    Currently, in Montana, there are 27 timber sales under 
litigation; 21 are enjoined, preventing the work on over 17,000 
acres. In fact, just last week the Teepee Creek Stewardship 
project on the Custer Gallatin National Forest was enjoined 
after one day of work where the crews were onsite starting the 
thinning project. Crews had to stop the work. In fact, I just 
found out that vandals have gone and vandalized a $500,000 
piece of equipment, the feller buncher. It is understandable to 
wonder whether environmental extremists were involved in this.
    Mr. Casamassa, does litigation or the threat of litigation 
continue to impede restoration projects on the national forests 
in Montana?
    Mr. Casamassa. Yeah, Senator, it does.
    Senator Daines. And do these projects take into account 
public input when they are developed?
    Mr. Casamassa. Yeah, the environmental analysis we do is 
deliberate. It is open to the public, and we solicit input in 
fashioning the decisions that we make.
    Senator Daines. Is it fair to say that these projects often 
involve work to reduce hazardous fuels?
    Mr. Casamassa. Not only do--yes, it does. It is fair to say 
that and that there are a number of other activities that we 
would like to have active management on in the Forest Service 
that are influenced by and stopped by litigation.
    Senator Daines. Litigation can take years to resolve which 
hurts forest health, is expensive, and it makes it very hard 
for Montana's wood product industry to make business decisions.
    Mr. Casamassa, can you discuss the advantages of 
arbitration and whether the agency views arbitration as a way 
to resolve disputes in a way that is faster and perhaps more 
certain?
    Mr. Casamassa. Yes, Senator, I think, in looking at a 
different venue, a different avenue by which we could implement 
projects, arbitration seems to be a tool that should be at 
least looked at and tried in a pilot fashion in order to see 
what, how more effective and efficient we can be in moving from 
a decision to actual implementation on the ground.
    Senator Daines. Now, Senate bill 2160 includes what we call 
the ``baseball style'' arbitration where a qualified arbiter 
decides whether the agency's proposal, or an alternative 
proposed by an objector, or neither proposal will move forward.
    Another approach would be for the arbitrator to simply 
serve the role as a judge and determine whether the agency's 
proposal is consistent with the applicable forest plan and 
follows all relevant laws and regulations.
    Mr. Casamassa, is there an approach that the Forest Service 
would prefer to pilot as it relates to arbitration?
    Mr. Casamassa. I think that based on what you have just 
described, Senator, it would be the idea of seeing whether an 
arbiter would determine whether or not we had followed all 
applicable environmental law, disclosed those impacts to the 
public, and that we were in line with that. And so, that seems 
to be a reasonable approach to looking at using this tool as 
arbitration in a piloted fashion within the limited area of 
Montana and Northern Idaho.
    Senator Daines. Mr. Chairman, I just want to, again, remind 
this Committee that as we speak there are 27 timber sales 
currently under litigation in Montana as I cannot even see the 
mountains out the back door of my home, those woods are just a 
few miles away, because of the smoke.
    Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Wyden, combating chronic 
litigation does not erode public input, it safeguards it. It 
does so by ensuring that consensus-driven decisions of the 
majority are not obstructed by isolated dissenters, in most 
cases, extreme environmental groups.
    I look forward to working with both of you to bring this 
commonsense bill for a markup and to the Floor soon.
    Thank you.
    Senator Lee. Senator Heinrich.
    Senator Heinrich. Mr. McAlear, as you mentioned in your 
testimony, in the West it is common for public lands to be very 
intermixed. You have state, private, and tribal lands all mixed 
together in something we often refer to as a checkerboard. How 
does that checkerboard pattern complicate BLM's management of 
public lands?
    Mr. McAlear. Checkerboard sets up a lot more property 
boundaries and makes it a lot more difficult to be able to 
manage across a landscape rather than, you know, having, in 
this case with checkerboards, is that we're only able to manage 
small pieces, parcels at a time.
    Senator Heinrich. So, for example, even with regard to fire 
management, it is much harder to manage the landscape as a 
whole if you are dealing with multiple different property 
owners all with different goals.
    Mr. McAlear. Absolutely.
    Senator Heinrich. Would the BLM's ability to meet its 
conservation and recreation missions be enhanced if you had 
more flexibility to resolve those inholdings in conservation 
land units like monuments and wilderness study areas?
    Mr. McAlear. Yes.
    And you know, the Secretary has stressed that it is really 
important to him that the public have access for recreational 
purposes, and by being able to have large, federal blocks of 
land rather than interspersed with private parcels or state 
parcels, it makes it a lot easier to manage.
    Senator Heinrich. I want to move to Chaco real quick.
    Chaco Cultural National Historical Park is a designated 
International Dark Sky Park. The dark night sky at Chaco is not 
only an asset for astronomers and stargazers who come from all 
over the country to utilize that resource, but also for 
understanding the original purpose and meaning of the 
structures that are built in Chaco Canyon. Several of the most 
significant buildings to Chaco were built in alignment with 
astronomical events like the solstice. The meaning of Chaco is 
intricately connected to the natural environment, including the 
night environment where it is located. How is the BLM 
considering light pollution and the dark night sky in its 
ongoing planning process in the Chaco area?
    Mr. McAlear. So the BLM recognizes that dark skies are an 
important issue, and we are currently analyzing the impacts of 
oil and gas development. We are also looking at technology and 
best business practices as we take part in a resource 
management plan amendment.
    Senator Heinrich. Would you agree that limiting oil and gas 
development within the ten-mile park buffer could significantly 
contribute to the protection of Chaco's night sky?
    Mr. McAlear. So Senate bill 2907, the map that is part of 
that bill, would withdraw the public lands ten miles around the 
Chaco Cultural Natural Historical Park.
    Senator Heinrich. Mr. Casamassa, I just want to get you 
really quickly on the record on something.
    In your view has climate change contributed to the severity 
and the frequency of forest fires in the West?
    Mr. Casamassa. Yes, Senator.
    I think, based on my experience working in the field and 
managing large suppression efforts, what I have seen over the 
course of time is that the fire season is prolonged. In fact, I 
was just talking with some folks about how, along the front 
range of Colorado, one season we had fires in every single 
month of the year.
    Senator Heinrich. Yes, we used to have a fire season. Now 
we have a fire situation that has to be managed year-round.
    Mr. Casamassa. And we know that, you know, I think on the 
average we have extended our fire season around 80 days per 
year and that there are some indications that overall there is 
a change in the weather, there is a change in our approach to 
how we manage fires. And all the arrows and evidence in my mind 
would point toward a change in some of the conditions that 
we're working through right now.
    Senator Heinrich. Mr. McAlear, on S. 2809, I wanted to ask 
you, as that is currently written, would that bill allow the 
State of Utah to acquire land within the reservation of the Ute 
Tribe, even if those acquisitions were potentially against 
their will? Have you looked at the land swap issue with regard 
to that legislation, the Hatch legislation?
    Mr. McAlear. Yeah, I am not as familiar with that piece of 
the legislation, but we would certainly take that question back 
and get you an answer.
    Senator Heinrich. If you could take that for the record, I 
would appreciate it.
    Mr. Chair, it looks like I am running out of time so I am 
going to yield back.
    Senator Lee. Thank you very much.
    Senator Flake.
    Senator Flake. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks for holding 
this hearing. I appreciated working with Senator Heinrich again 
on the ACE Act we have introduced and appreciate the comments 
about it.
    We all know that federal land managers and state land 
managers often have conflicting priorities, and we feel that 
this bill is a win-win for everybody. State land trusts get to 
swap their trapped lands for those with greater economic 
potential. Federal land managers get to eliminate inholdings.
    I grew up in Northern Arizona. We had a family ranch. We 
dealt with the checkerboard pattern quite a bit. I know the 
difficulty for land managers to deal with situations like this. 
So we are trying to make it better.
    I am happy to see the BLM recognizes the merits of the bill 
and supports the goals of the legislation. Land exchanges 
between states and federal agencies are, oftentimes, complex 
arrangements. We know this requires extensive appraisals, 
analyses, and environmental reviews.
    How long, on average, Mr. McAlear, does it take for BLM and 
the states to finalize a land exchange? On the average, I know 
it is a lot.
    Mr. McAlear. Senator, I do not have a specific timeframe 
for that. Just, like you said----
    Senator Flake. Right.
    Mr. McAlear. ----some of them are a lot more complex than 
others.
    Senator Flake. How would BLM states and the public benefit 
from consistency and predictability that our bill seeks to 
bring to state land exchanges?
    Mr. McAlear. Yeah, certainly, this bill fits within the 
Secretary's priorities of recreation, public access, and 
working with local communities.
    Senator Flake. Alright, thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Senator Lee. Senator Cortez Masto.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you to the witnesses that are here today as well. I 
look forward to working with you, along with my colleagues, on 
the pending legislation.
    Since I have the opportunity though, I would like to 
highlight a particular bill. A week ago I introduced S. 3349, 
the Storey County Land Conveyance Act, and the bill provides 
technical fixes to a 2014 law originally meant to resolve 
conflicting title issues between residential property, private 
property owners, and the BLM in Storey County, Nevada. 
Conflicting claims to these properties were caused by improper 
federal conveyance of land surface rights for residential and 
non-mining commercial uses stemming from the 19th century.
    The 2014 law contains language that conflicts with BLM's 
land survey and conveyance procedures, and the effort to 
provide legal certainty to my constituents in Storey County has 
been on hold ever since. I bring this up today as my staff and 
I have been working with Storey County, the BLM, and the 
Interior Department on making sure we have the necessary 
language to help those Nevadans whose property has been in 
legal limbo.
    Although we were unable to have my bill included on today's 
agenda, I have received assurances from the Interior Department 
that they will work with us to move my bill through the 
legislative process as soon as possible. I just want to confirm 
that I do have that commitment from Interior and the BLM to 
work with me on this bill.
    Mr. McAlear. Yes, Senator, you do have that commitment from 
Interior to continue working with you on that bill.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I appreciate that.
    And so, Mr. Chair, I also ask for support from you and your 
staff to help solve and resolve this issue as expediently as 
possible, and I look forward to working with you.
    Senator Lee. Thank you.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    Senator Lee. Thank you very much.
    If there are no further questions from members today, 
members may also submit written follow-up questions for the 
record and for that purpose we will keep the record open for 
two weeks.
    I want to thank the witnesses for their time and for their 
attention to detail, their willingness to come and speak to us 
today.
    This hearing stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 10:58 a.m. the hearing was adjourned.]

                      APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

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