    [Senate Hearing 115-528]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                             S.Hrg. 115-528

                              PENDING LEGISLATION

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                       PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING

                                     OF THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                         ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                       on

    S. 483                              S. 2160            S. 3245
    S. 1572/H.R. 3279                   S. 2297            S. 3297
    S. 1787                             S. 2721            S. 3325
    S. 1959                             S. 2809            H.R. 2075
    S. 2078                             S. 2907

                                   ----------

                                AUGUST 22, 2018

                                   ----------

     [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                           Printed for the use of the
                   Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

                              PENDING LEGISLATION

                                                            S. Hrg. 115-528

                              PENDING LEGISLATION

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                       PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING

                                     OF THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                         ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                       on

    S. 483                              S. 2160            S. 3245
    S. 1572/H.R. 3279                   S. 2297            S. 3297
    S. 1787                             S. 2721            S. 3325
    S. 1959                             S. 2809            H.R. 2075
    S. 2078                             S. 2907

                                   __________

                                AUGUST 22, 2018

                                   __________

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                           Printed for the use of the
                   Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                              ______

                  U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
     31-320                 WASHINGTON : 2020

                   COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                        LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
    JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
    MIKE LEE, Utah                       BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
    JEFF FLAKE, Arizona                  DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
    STEVE DAINES, Montana                JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
    CORY GARDNER, Colorado               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
    LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee           MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
    JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota            ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
    BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
    ROB PORTMAN, Ohio                    CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
    SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia  TINA SMITH, Minnesota
                                     ------

               Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining

                               MIKE LEE, Chairman

    JOHN BARRASSO                        RON WYDEN
    JAMES E. RISCH                       DEBBIE STABENOW
    JEFF FLAKE                           JOE MANCHIN III
    STEVE DAINES                         MARTIN HEINRICH
    CORY GARDNER                         MAZIE K. HIRONO
    LAMAR ALEXANDER                      CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO
    JOHN HOEVEN                          TINA SMITH
    BILL CASSIDY
    SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO

                          Brian Hughes, Staff Director
                         Kellie Donnelly, Chief Counsel
       Lucy Murfitt, Senior Counsel and Public Lands & Natural Resources
                                Policy Director
                    Annie Hoefler, Professional Staff Member
                 Mary Louise Wagner, Democratic Staff Director
                    Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
                    David Brooks, Democratic General Counsel
                  Rebecca Bonner, Democratic Legislative Aide

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page
    Lee, Hon. Mike, Subcommittee Chairman and a U.S. Senator from
      Utah...........................................................     1
    Heinrich, Hon. Martin, a U.S. Senator from New Mexico............    30
    Wyden, Hon. Ron, a U.S. Senator from Oregon......................    83

                                   WITNESSES

    Bennet, Hon. Michael F., a U.S. Senator from Colorado............     3
    Casamassa, Glenn, Associate Deputy Chief, National Forest System,
      U.S. Forest Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture............    31
    McAlear, Christopher, Assistant Director, National Conservation
      Lands & Community Partnerships, Bureau of Land Management, U.S.
      Department of the Interior.....................................    47
    Keyser, Marilynne, President, Friends and Neighbors of the
      Deschutes Canyon Area..........................................    79

              ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

    Albuquerque Chapter of United Nations Association of the United
      States of America:
        Letter for the Record........................................   123
    All Pueblo Council of Governors:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   124
    Alliance for Justice, et al.:
        Letter for the Record........................................   126
    American Fly Fishing Trade Association, et al.:
        Letter for the Record........................................   129
    Archaeology Southwest:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   132
    Association of National Grasslands:
        Letter for the Record........................................   134
    Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, et al.:
        Letter for the Record........................................   136
    Bacon, Karin:
        Comments for the Record......................................   138
    Basham, Matt:
        Comments for the Record......................................   176
    Belton, Mark:
        Letter for the Record........................................   139
    Bennet, Hon. Michael F.:
        Opening Statement............................................     3
    Bentz, Hon. Cliff:
        Letter for the Record........................................   140
    Boldrin, Morgan:
        Comments for the Record......................................   180
    Bonham, Hon. Daniel:
        Letter for the Record........................................   141
    Bowman, Phillip:
        Letter for the Record........................................   181
    Brassfield, Bill:
        Comments for the Record......................................   183
    Bridge, Shelene:
        Letter for the Record........................................   142
    Busa, Candice:
        Comments for the Record......................................   143
    Californians for Western Wilderness, et al.:
        Letter for the Record........................................   144
    California Wilderness Coalition, et al.:
        Letter for the Record........................................   147
    Casamassa, Glenn:
        Opening Statement............................................    31
        Written Testimony............................................    33
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................    94
    Casebolt, Dan:
        Comments for the Record......................................   184
    Chambers, Jim:
        Comments for the Record......................................   185
    Coalition for American Heritage:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   149
    Colorado Off-Highway Vehicle Coalition, et al.:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   186
    Colorado Wool Growers Association:
        Letter for the Record........................................   217
    (The) Conservation Alliance:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   151
    Conservation Lands Foundation, et al.:
        Letter for the Record........................................   155
    Conserve Southwest Utah:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   156
    Cooper, Glenn L.:
        Letter for the Record........................................   158
    Cooper, Hon. Hilary, Hon. Ben Tisdel, and Hon. Pete McKay:
        Letter for the Record........................................     5
    Crooked River Ranch Club and Maintenance Association:
        Letter for the Record to Senator Murkowski dated 8/20/18.....   160
        Letter for the Record to Senator Wyden dated 8/21/18.........   162
    Custer County (SD):
        Letter for the Record........................................   164
    deBuys, William:
        Letter for the Record........................................   165
    Defenders of Wildlife:
        Letter for the Record........................................   166
    Desert Tortoise Council:
        Letter for the Record........................................   368
    Dine' Medicine Men's Association, Inc.:
        Resolution for the Record....................................   168
    Energysolve LLC:
        Letter for the Record........................................   171
    Farmer, Jane M.:
        Letter for the Record........................................   172
    Fohl, Tim:
        Comments for the Record......................................   173
    Gardner, Hon. Cory:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   174
    Goodmaster, Kyle:
        Comments for the Record......................................   218
    Gray, Michael and Debbie:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   219
    Gray, Quintin:
        Comments for the Record......................................   220
    Haggard, Gail:
        Comments for the Record......................................   280
    Harris, Alan:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   221
    Heinrich, Hon. Martin:
        Opening Statement............................................    30
    Hickenlooper, Hon. John W.:
        Letter for the Record........................................     7
    Higgins, Russ:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   222
    Hoffmann, Richard:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   281
    Hoover, Mitch:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   223
    (The) Hopi Tribe:
        Statement for the Record on S. 2809..........................   283
        Letter for the Record on S. 2907.............................   290
    Howey, Gregg:
        Letter for the Record........................................   225
    H.R. 2075:
        Map of Deschutes Canyon - Steelhead Falls Wilderness Study
          Area, dated 4/6/17.........................................    99
    Jaffe, William B.:
        Comments for the Record......................................   306
    Jamestown S'Klallam Tribe:
        Letter for the Record........................................   307
    Jefferson County (OR) Board of County Commissioners:
        Letter for the Record........................................   308
    Jefferson County (OR) Office of the Sheriff:
        Letter for the Record........................................   310
    Johnson, Edward:
        Comments for the Record......................................   226
    Jones, Scott:
        Letter for the Record........................................   228
    Kauff, Dr. Priscilla F.:
        Comments for the Record......................................   312
    Keyser, Marilynne:
        Opening Statement............................................    79
        Written Testimony............................................    81
    Keyworth, William:
        Comments for the Record......................................   313
    Klaber, Chris:
        Letter for the Record........................................   265
    Lee, Hon. Mike:
        Opening Statement............................................     1
    Lekson, Stephen H.:
        Comments for the Record......................................   315
    Liebetrau, Lloyd J.:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   266
    Lower Elwha Klallam Tribe:
        Letter for the Record........................................   316
    Magnus, Ron:
        Letter for the Record........................................   268
    McAlear, Christopher:
        Opening Statement............................................    47
        Written Testimony............................................    49
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................    96
    Montgomery, Sarah:
        Letter for the Record........................................   318
    Moretti, Tom:
        Letter for the Record........................................   269
    Murray, Hon. Patty:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   319
    National Indian Education Association:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   321
    National Parks Conservation Association:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   323
    National Trust for Historic Preservation:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   325
    National Trust for Historic Preservation, et al.:
        Letter for the Record........................................   327
    (The) Navajo Nation:
        Letter for the Record........................................   329
    New Mexico Interfaith Power and Light:
        Comments for the Record......................................   330
    New Mexico Wilderness Alliance:
        Letter for the Record........................................   331
    Ojo Encino Chapter (of the Navajo Nation):
        Resolution OJOE 08-17-18/004 for the Record..................   333
    Oliver, Tom and Lana:
        Comments for the Record......................................   270
    Oregon Natural Desert Association:
        Letter for the Record........................................   336
    Ortman, Scott:
        Comments for the Record......................................   339
    Ouray County (CO) Board of County Commissioners:
        Resolution Nos. 2016-009, 2011-007, and 2007-075.............     8
        Map of Proposed Whitehouse Additions to the Mt. Sneffels
          Wilderness, dated 12/1/10..................................    15
    Ouray Silver Mines, Inc.:
        Letter for the Record........................................    16
    Outdoor Alliance:
        Letter for the Record........................................   340
    Pacheco, Lisa:
        Letter for the Record........................................   346
    Panek, Jerry:
        Letter for the Record........................................   271
    Pertschuk, Amy:
        Comments for the Record......................................   347
    Peterson, Mary Lou:
        Comments for the Record......................................   348
    (The) Pew Charitable Trusts:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   349
    Potter, Lisa, et al:
        Letter for the Record........................................   272
    Pueblo of Acoma (NM):
        Statement for the Record.....................................   354
    Quinault Indian Nation:
        Letter for the Record........................................   357
    Reid, Ellen Bradbury:
        Comment for the Record.......................................   359
    S. 1959:
        Map of Black Mountain Scenic Area--Proposed, dated 10/4/17...   100
        Map of Caliente Mountain Wilderness Area--Proposed, dated 5/
          31/17......................................................   101
        Map of Chumash Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed, dated 10/
          4/17.......................................................   102
        Map of Condor Ridge Scenic Area--Proposed, dated 10/4/17.....   103
        Map of Diablo Caliente Wilderness Area--Proposed, dated 10/4/
          17.........................................................   104
        Map of Dick Smith Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed (Map 1
          of 2), dated 10/4/17.......................................   105
        Map of Dick Smith Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed (Map 2
          of 2), dated 10/4/17.......................................   106
        Map of Fox Mountain Potential Wilderness, dated 10/4/17......   107
        Map of Garcia Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed, dated 10/
          4/17.......................................................   108
        Map of Machesna Mountain Potential Wilderness, dated 10/4/17.   109
        Map of Machesna Mountain Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed,
          dated 10/4/17..............................................   110
        Map of Matilija Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed, dated
          10/4/17....................................................   111
        Map of San Rafael Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed, dated
          10/4/17....................................................   112
        Map of Santa Lucia Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed, dated

          10/4/17....................................................   113
        Map of Sespe Wilderness Area Additions--Proposed, dated 10/4/
          17.........................................................   114
        Map of Soda Lake Wilderness--Proposed, dated 5/31/17.........   115
    S. 2721:
        Map of Proposed Designations in the San Juan Mountains
          Wilderness Act, dated 3/22/18..............................   116
        Map of Proposed Naturita Canyon Mineral Withdrawal Area,
          dated
          3/8/18.....................................................   117
        Map of Proposed Sheep Mountain Special Management Area, dated

          3/8/2018...................................................   118
        Map of Proposed Whitehouse Additions to the Mt. Sneffels
          Wilderness, dated 3/22/18..................................   119
        Map of Proposed Wilson, Sunshine, Black Face and San Bernardo
          Additions to the Lizard Head Wilderness, dated 3/8/18......   120
    S. 2907:
        Map of Chaco Cultural Heritage Withdrawal Area, dated 5/7/18
          (Sub-surface)..............................................   121
        Map of Chaco Cultural Heritage Withdrawal Area, dated 5/14/18
          (Surface)..................................................   122
    San Juan County (CO) Board of County Commissioners:
        Letter for the Record........................................    17
    San Miguel Bike Alliance:
        Letter for the Record........................................    18
    San Miguel County (CO) Board of County Commissioners:
        Letter for the Record........................................    19
    Sexton, Rick:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   274
    Shinnecock Indian Nation:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   360
    Shoenfeld, Jane:
        Comments for the Record......................................   362
    Sinfield, Brenda:
        Letter for the Record........................................   363
    Sofaer, Anna:
        Comments for the Record......................................   364
    Southwest Native Cultures:
        Letter for the Record........................................   365
    Spotts, Richard:
        Letter for the Record........................................   366
    Stefanics, Hon. Liz:
        Comments for the Record......................................   374
    Tanaka, Dale:
        Letter for the Record........................................   275
    Tapp, Nancy:
        Comment for the Record.......................................   375
    Telluride Ski and Golf Company:
        Letter for the Record........................................    20
    Terranova, Titus N.:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   277
    Thomas, Alan:
        Comments for the Record......................................   278
    Thune, Hon. John:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   376
    Till, Roy:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   279
    Town Council of Ridgway (CO):
        Resolution No. 16-03 for the Record..........................    21
    Town of Mountain Village (CO):
        Letter for the Record........................................    23
    Town of Ophir (CO):
        Letter for the Record dated 5/5/16...........................    24
        Letter for the Record dated 5/7/18...........................    25
    Town of Silverton (CO) Board of Trustees:
        Letter for the Record........................................    26
    Town of Telluride (CO):
        Letter for the Record dated 4/22/16..........................    27
        Letter for the Record dated 4/25/17..........................    28
    Trout Unlimited:
        Letter for the Record to Senator Bennet dated 6/25/18........    29
        Letter for the Record dated 8/22/18..........................   378
    Udall, Hon. Tom:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   385
    Utah Wilderness Coalition:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   387
    Ute Indian Tribe:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   397
    Vallo, Brian D.:
        Letter for the Record........................................   402
    Van Dyke, Dr. Ruth M.:
        Letter for the Record........................................   403
    Ward, Harry:
        Letter for the Record........................................   404
    Western Governors' Association:
        Letter for the Record........................................   405
        Policy Resolution 2016-04....................................   406
    Wild Olympics Campaign:
        Letter for the Record........................................   409
    WildEarth Guardians:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   428
    (The) Wilderness Society:
        Letter for the Record........................................   431
    (The) Wilderness Society, et al.:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   438
    Wilderness Watch:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   443
    Wyden, Hon. Ron:
        Opening Statement............................................    83

    ----------
    The text for each of the bills which were addressed in this hearing can
    be found on the committee's website at: https://www.energy.senate.gov/
    public/index.cfm/2018/8/subcommittee-on-public-lands-forests-and-
    mining-legislative-hearing-08-22-2018

                              PENDING LEGISLATION

                                  ----------

                           WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 22, 2018

                                   U.S. Senate,
     Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining,
                     Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m. in
    Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Mike Lee,
    presiding.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE,
                         U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH

        Senator Lee [presiding]. The Subcommittee will come to
    order.
        The Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining is
    holding its third legislative hearing of this year to receive
    testimony on 15 different pieces of legislation pending before
    the Senate.
        There are a number of bills on the agenda today. In the
    interest of time, I will highlight just one of them as we begin
    our proceedings today.
        First, I would like to mention my bill, S. 3297, the
    Washington County, Utah, Public Land Act. This is the companion
    to a House bill sponsored by my colleague, Congressman Chris
    Stewart. It is the product of years of public outreach and
    collaboration involving state, local, and federal officials,
    local residents, and recreation and conservation groups.
        Washington County has been working diligently for more than
    20 years to balance the needs of a rapidly growing population
    with the protections for the Mojave desert tortoise, a
    threatened species under the Endangered Species Act. The
    County's efforts began in earnest in 1996 when the state and
    local officials there partnered with BLM and the U.S. Fish and
    Wildlife Service to develop a countywide Habitat Conservation
    Plan, or HCP, to protect the tortoise while ensuring continued
    economic development and recreational access. Thanks to the
    County's efforts the region now boasts some of the highest
    desert tortoise populations in the animal's native range which
    spans parts of California, Nevada, Arizona and, of course,
    Utah. However, the HCP expired in 2016 and the County is
    currently administering it under a temporary extension while
    the County negotiates a renewal with the U.S. Department of the
    Interior.
        At the same time, Washington County officials are
    continuing to prepare for substantial growth in their
    communities. The population of St. George, Utah, which is the
    largest city in Washington County, increased four percent
    between 2016 and 2017, making it the fastest growing
    metropolitan area, not just in Utah but in the entire nation.
    To accommodate the growth, local officials have determined that
    it is necessary to construct new utility lines and a stretch of
    road north of St. George to alleviate downtown traffic
    congestion. Because of the rugged topography of the region, the
    only viable route for the road is through a small section of
    the HCP.
        The County attempted to secure the necessary right-of-way
    for the road in 2009 when county officials worked with federal
    and state officials on a countywide land management bill that
    directed the Interior Department to ``identify one or more
    alternatives for a northern transportation route in the
    county.'' That bill passed as part of the Omnibus Public Lands
    Management Act of 2009. Yet now, almost a decade later, the
    Department of the Interior has not permitted a northern
    transportation route that meets this rapidly growing County's
    needs.
        My bill, S. 3297, would enhance protections for the desert
    tortoise and provide Washington County the flexibility it needs
    to manage its rapidly growing human population. The bill would
    renew the HCP agreement for 25 years and grant a right-of-way
    for the northern transportation corridor. The right-of-way in
    this bill was designed in consultation with federal and state
    tortoise biologists and traffic engineers to minimize habitat
    fragmentation. It would run just over four miles long and cross
    less than two miles of the HCP. In total, it would impact 0.2
    percent of the entire HCP and displace between 10 and 20
    tortoises which would be relocated elsewhere within the HCP. In
    addition, the bill would add almost 7,000 acres of prime desert
    tortoise habitat to the existing HCP which, according to recent
    surveys, would enhance protections for potentially hundreds of
    additional tortoises. In short, S. 3297 would be a win for both
    the County and for the desert tortoise.
        I would also like to highlight S. 1572, the Helium
    Extraction Act, which is sponsored by my colleague from Utah,
    Senator Hatch. Helium is indispensable to our defense, space,
    medical, and tech industries and was recently included on the
    Department of the Interior's critical minerals list. However,
    domestic and global helium production has declined in recent
    years, even when demand for it seems to be on the increase.
    Additionally, all helium in the Federal Helium Reserve, which
    supplies more than 40 percent of domestic helium demand, will
    be sold by 2021. Taken together, these dynamics create
    significant uncertainty about how to meet future domestic
    helium needs. S. 1572 would help alleviate these concerns by
    boosting domestic production of helium on federal lands.
    Specifically, the bill would ensure that helium extracted from
    federal land would be treated the same way as oil and gas. This
    would enable extracting entities to extend their leases beyond
    their initial ten-year terms and ultimately encourage more
    consistent helium production. I support this bill, and I am
    glad it is included on our agenda this morning.
        With that, we would be turning to Senator Wyden for his
    opening remarks. I understand that he is running behind for a
    moment. So until such time as Senator Wyden gets back, we are
    going to turn to a couple of other members who would like to be
    recognized to speak.
        Senator Heinrich.
        Senator Heinrich. Chairman, should we let Senator Bennet
    give his opening remarks and then I would love to give some as
    well, but since he is here----
        Senator Lee. That works.
        Senator Heinrich. Yes.
        Senator Lee. We are grateful to have Senator Bennet from
    Colorado. Colorado is a great neighboring state to my State of
    Utah, as is New Mexico, even though we share only a tiny spot
    of land as our border.
        Senator Heinrich. So much common ground.
        Senator Lee. Exactly, so much common ground.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Bennet.

                 STATEMENT OF HON. MICHAEL F. BENNET,
                       U.S. SENATOR FROM COLORADO

        Senator Bennet. I thank you, Chairman Lee, very much for
    having me here, and Senator Heinrich, thank you for your
    courtesy.
        We do, we live in the most beautiful part of the United
    States of America. So I think we should all celebrate that and
    that is actually what brings me here today. I am grateful to
    you for holding the hearing and giving me the chance to say a
    few words about the San Juan Mountains Wilderness Act.
        Four months ago, I walked to the Senate Floor with San
    Miguel County Commissioner, Hilary Cooper, and her daughter,
    Mia, to introduce this bill. I asked Hilary to join me because
    this bill is a result of years of hard work from leaders like
    her in Southwest Colorado. Hilary asked her daughter, Mia, to
    join because this bill and the conservation of public lands is
    fundamentally about the legacy we pass on to the next
    generation of Americans.
        Today, two other County Commissioners who helped shape this
    bill are here, Joan May from San Miguel County and Pete McKay
    from San Juan County, because they know how fundamental the San
    Juan Mountains are to our state's identity and our outdoor
    economy.
        For nearly a decade, leaders like Hilary, Joan, and Pete
    have worked through a collaborative, ground up process to
    protect key areas in the San Juan Mountains. They have spent
    countless hours bringing together local businesses, ranchers,
    landowners, and outdoor enthusiasts to make sure the proposal
    reflects the diverse interests of the region, and the result is
    a balanced piece of legislation. If passed, the bill would
    protect 61,000 acres in the heart of the San Juan Mountains. It
    would preserve multiple alpine peaks, including two of our
    state's most striking fourteeners, Mount Sneffels and Wilson
    Peak. It would establish the McKenna Peak Wilderness, an area
    known for its sandstone badlands and forested mesas. It would
    also protect Ice Lake Basin, a beloved hiking destination in
    Silverton, Colorado, one that my friend, Commissioner McKay,
    hikes every summer as part of the Sheep Mountain Special
    Management Area. These special management designations allow
    for existing uses such as helicopter skiing in the Hard Rock
    100 Endurance Race to continue in the area.
        Overall, the San Juan Mountains Wilderness Area has an
    incredible amount of support. Ouray, San Miguel and San Juan
    Counties support this bill, along with the Governor of
    Colorado. Key local interests like the Telluride Ski Area and
    the San Miguel Bike Alliance support the bill. Even Ouray
    Silver Mines, the only active hard rock mine in the vicinity,
    supports the wilderness designation near them. I would ask to
    enter each of these support letters into the record.
        Mr. Chairman, I would ask to put some letters into the
    record.
        Senator Lee. Without objection.
        Senator Bennet. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        [Letters of support for Senate bill 2721 follow:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Bennet. Let me just close by saying this bill is a
    credit to the diligence and vision of the people of Southwest
    Colorado who care deeply about the future of our public lands
    and the San Juan Mountains.
        Thank you for considering this bill today, Mr. Chairman,
    and I look forward to working with members of the Committee to
    advance it in the weeks ahead.
        Thanks again to my colleague from New Mexico for his
    courtesy as well.
        Senator Lee. Thank you.
        Senator Heinrich.

                  STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH,
                      U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO

        Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman.
        I want to thank you for holding this hearing today. In
    particular, with regard to two bills that are important to New
    Mexicans and our public lands. Senator Tom Udall and I recently
    introduced legislation to permanently protect the Chaco Canyon
    area from federal oil and gas development. Chaco Canyon is both
    a world-class cultural resource and a place of immense
    importance to New Mexico's native communities. It is one of
    only three world heritage sites in New Mexico as well as a
    sacred site still in use by local tribal communities to this
    day.
        This legislation will help make permanent protections for
    portions of the greater Chaco landscape that fall outside of
    the park boundary and preserve the dark night sky from light
    pollution. This landscape is incredibly complicated with state,
    private, tribal, and individually allotted lands checkerboarded
    together around this unique landscape and the park itself.
        For a number of years now there has been an understanding
    between the BLM, the industry, local communities, tribes, and
    historic preservation advocates that no development would
    happen within ten miles of the park boundary in order to
    minimize impacts on the park itself, on its viewshed, and on
    related cultural resources. This legislation formalizes that
    understanding. It is an important piece of a complete solution
    to protect the greater Chaco landscape, and I look forward to
    hearing from the Bureau of Land Management today about the
    agency's plans for this region.
        Second, Senator Flake and I have introduced legislation to
    improve the process for land exchanges between state trust
    lands and western states and the federal public land management
    agencies. Our bill would address the checkerboard land
    ownership pattern that is all too common in the West by
    exchanging state land inholdings within federal conservation
    areas, like parks and wilderness areas, for lands of equal
    value that are more likely to produce revenue for the schools
    and hospitals that benefit from development of state trust
    lands.
        We have seen the need for these kinds of exchanges in
    places like the Rio Grande del Norte National Monument and the
    Sabinoso Wilderness, and I look forward to working with the
    Committee to make improvements to the existing exchange
    process.
        Thank you to the Committee for the consideration of both
    these bills. I look forward to hearing from all of our
    witnesses today, Mr. Chair.
        Senator Lee. Great. Thank you.
        Seeing that we do not have any other members right now to
    make opening statements, it is now time to hear from our
    witnesses. We have three great witnesses joining us today, and
    we welcome them to come up and sit at the table. The first is
    Mr. Glenn Casamassa, the Associate Deputy Chief of the U.S.
    Forest Service. We welcome you, sir. The second is Mr.
    Christopher McAlear, the Assistant Director of the National
    Conservation Lands and Community Partnerships at the Bureau of
    Land Management. And the third is Ms. Marilynne Keyser, the
    President of Friends and Neighbors of the Deschutes Canyon
    Area. Welcome.
        At the end of witness testimonies members will be able to
    ask questions. Your full written testimony will, of course, be
    made part of the record for this hearing. Please keep your
    statements, if you can, to five minutes so that we can have
    time for questions. I look forward to hearing your testimony.
        Mr. Casamassa, please proceed.

    STATEMENT OF GLENN CASAMASSA, ASSOCIATE DEPUTY CHIEF, NATIONAL
        FOREST SYSTEM, U.S. FOREST SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
                              AGRICULTURE

        Mr. Casamassa. Chairman Lee, Ranking Member Wyden, members
    of the Subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify on
    behalf of USDA and the Forest Service regarding the bills under
    consideration here today. My written testimony has been
    provided for the record, and I'll be focusing on the eight
    bills that affect national forest management.
        To begin, Senate bill 2297, the Custer County Airport
    Conveyance Act, which would convey national forest lands for
    market value considerations for the continued operation of the
    Custer County Regional Airport. Portions of the airport already
    occupy the lands in question which have lost their national
    forest character and conveyance would allow for improved
    management of this important regional asset.
        Regarding Senate bill 2078, the Advancing Conservation and
    Education Act, USDA supports adjustments in land ownership that
    benefit the management of the National Forest System while
    allowing states to better manage land grant parcels for their
    original purposes. As the bill applies to the Forest Service,
    it would provide a method that is not available under existing
    authority to achieve these goals. Thus, we are not in a
    position to judge the effects of Senate bill 2078 on the public
    lands so we defer to the BLM on its views on this bill.
        With Senate bill 3245, the Lake Fannin Conveyance Act, the
    Forest Service would like to continue working with
    representatives from Fannin County, the bill sponsors, and the
    Subcommittee to explore a long-term, financially sustainable
    solution for maintenance and use of the historic facilities at
    Lake Fannin that may not require a conveyance of the lands. We
    believe we are making progress toward that goal.
        The USDA supports Senate bill 3325, the Eligibility for
    National Grasslands for Grazing Leases and Permits, which would
    extend to existing grazing management policies to National
    Grasslands and the National Forests in the Eastern U.S. We
    would like to work with the sponsor and the Subcommittee on
    minor corrections and additional language to help clarify the
    management of grazing permits.
        I would also like to work with the sponsors and
    Subcommittee on minor technical corrections to Senate bill
    2160, the Protect Collaboration for Healthier Forests Act. USDA
    supports the idea of arbitration as a tool to help streamline
    project decisions while maintaining public engagement and
    input. We appreciate the bill provides a way to test
    arbitration in a pilot program with a manageable project
    environment and within specified sideboards.
        Senate bill 483, the Wild Olympic Wilderness and Wild and
    Scenic Rivers Act, would designate new wilderness, expand
    existing wilderness, establish wilderness areas and designate
    certain wild and scenic rivers in the Olympic National Forest
    in Washington. USDA supports the intent of this legislation to
    recognize the importance of wilderness and wild and scenic
    rivers but has some concerns we would like to work with the
    Subcommittee and the bill sponsors to address. We defer to the
    Department of the Interior for their views on the bill.
        Senate bill 1959, the Central Coast Heritage Protection
    Act, designates land in the Los Padres National Forest in
    California as wilderness, makes additions to existing
    wilderness, and designates potential wilderness areas, scenic
    areas, and a national recreation trail. We appreciate the
    ongoing, multiyear efforts of the sponsor and Subcommittee
    toward improving the manageability of the multiple areas
    identified in this legislation. And while we support certain
    designations, we would like to continue to work with the
    sponsor and the Subcommittee on other provisions within the
    bill.
        Senate bill 2721, the San Juan Mountains Wilderness Act,
    would designate additions to existing wilderness, create
    special management areas, and withdraw certain lands from the
    mining and mineral leasing laws on the Grand Mesa, Uncompahgre
    and Gunnison National Forests. USDA appreciates the sponsor's
    collaborative approach and the local involvement on these. The
    Forests are currently revising their Land and Resource
    Management Plan which would include formal wilderness
    recommendations to Congress when finalized. Consequently, while
    all these areas considered have wilderness characteristics,
    USDA feels that a formal position would be premature while the
    public analysis process continues. Further, USDA supports
    domestic energy and mineral production, including critical
    minerals, as an important use of the National Forest System,
    while we stand ready to provide environmental, social and
    economic analysis as Congress weighs the important
    considerations and consequences of permanent withdrawal. USDA
    defers to the BLM for their views on this bill as it affects
    the public lands.
        This concludes my prepared statements. Thank you for the
    opportunity to be here today, and I look forward to answering
    any questions you may have.
        [The prepared statements of Mr. Casamassa follow:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Lee. Thank you, Mr. Casamassa.
        Mr. McAlear.

    STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER McALEAR, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, NATIONAL
      CONSERVATION LANDS & COMMUNITY PARTNERSHIPS, BUREAU OF LAND
              MANAGEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

        Mr. McAlear. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning to
    you and members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the
    opportunity to present testimony today.
        I'm Chris McAlear, the Assistant Director for the National
    Conservation Lands and Community Partnerships at the Bureau of
    Land Management.
        I'll briefly summarize the written statements concerning
    nine bills on today's agenda related to the Department of the
    Interior.
        Senate bill 1572, the Helium Extraction Act, would amend
    the Mineral Leasing Act to allow the continued production of
    helium from oil and gas leases. The BLM supports Senate bill
    1572 as it allows for the development of this critical resource
    and supports the Administration's priority of securing reliable
    supplies of critical minerals.
        Senate bill 1959, the Central Coast Heritage Protection
    Act, establishes or expands a number of conservation
    designations on lands managed by BLM and the Forest Service in
    Central California, including three new wilderness areas within
    the Carrizo Plain National Monument. The Department would like
    the opportunity to work with sponsors and the Subcommittee to
    address some issues and technical concerns.
        Senate bill 2078, the Advancing Conservation and Education
    Act, addresses the scattered nature of state land parcels in 13
    Western states by establishing a new mechanism for the states
    to relinquish state trust land and federally designated
    conservation areas and select replacement land in exchange. The
    Department supports the goals of Senate bill 2078 which are
    consistent with the Secretary's priorities to improve
    recreation, public access and conservation stewardship.
        Senate bill 2721, the San Juan Mountain Wilderness Area,
    establishes or expands a number of conservation designations of
    lands managed by the BLM and the Forest Service in Colorado,
    including the McKenna Peak Wilderness in San Miguel County. The
    Department would like to work with sponsors to address some
    issues and technical concerns.
        Senate bill 2809, the Emory County Public Land Management
    Act, provides direction for the future management of certain
    federal lands in Emory County, Utah. The Department supports
    Senate bill 2809 which we believe is consistent with the
    Secretary's priorities to improve recreation, public access,
    and collaborative conservation. We welcome the opportunity to
    work with sponsors and the Subcommittee on a few clarifying
    amendments and technical issues.
        Senate bill 2907, the Chaco Canyon Heritage Protection Act,
    would withdraw land surrounding the Chaco Cultural Natural
    Historical Park in Northwestern New Mexico. Striking the
    appropriate balance for public land use is an important mission
    that the Department takes seriously. We want to work with the
    sponsors to identify the best approach to protecting this
    specific special area as the BLM continues to evaluate and
    update its land management plan.
        Senate bill 3297, the Washington County, Utah, Public Land
    Act, would require that the BLM renew and amend the desert
    tortoise Habitat Conservation Plan, amend three resource
    management plans, and designate transportation and utility
    corridors through the Beaver Dam Wash and Red Cliffs National
    Conservation Areas. The Department supports the bill's goal of
    providing economic certainty to the communities of Washington
    County. We would like to work with the sponsor on a few
    clarifying amendments, timeframes, and to ensure consistency of
    implementation with other laws.
        H.R. 2075, the Crooked River Fire Protection Act, modifies
    the eastern boundary of the Deschutes Canyon-Steelhead Falls
    Wilderness Study Area and releases approximately 830 acres from
    WSA management. The Department supports H.R. 2075 which is
    consistent with the Secretary's priority of being a good
    neighbor and better serving local communities in the West.
        Senate bill 1787 would reauthorize the USGS National
    Cooperative Geologic Mapping Program, which is the nation's
    authoritative source of production for geologic maps. The
    Department supports the reauthorization of this important
    program. I will bring any questions you have about Senate bill
    1787 back to the USGS for response.
        Thank you again for this opportunity to testify, and I'm
    happy to answer any questions.
        [The prepared statements of Mr. McAlear follow:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Lee. Thank you, sir.
        Ms. Keyser.

    STATEMENT OF MARILYNNE KEYSER, PRESIDENT, FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS
                      OF THE DESCHUTES CANYON AREA

        Ms. Keyser. Thank you.
        My name is Marilynne Keyser. I'm a 17-year resident of
    Crooked River Ranch in central Oregon. Crooked River Ranch is
    an unincorporated, 11,000-acre, residential community governed
    by an HOA, a homeowners' association. My husband and I chose to
    build our home on the rim of the Deschutes Canyon because of
    its proximity to the Deschutes Canyon-Steelhead Falls
    Wilderness Study Area. I'm also the President of the Friends
    and Neighbors of the Deschutes Canyon Area, also known as FANs.
        Thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony on House
    bill 2075. FANs is a local stewardship organization based at
    Crooked River Ranch that was started six years ago by neighbors
    who love the incredible river canyons bordering Crooked River
    Ranch and believe in the importance of local involvement in
    public lands management. With our nearly 400 members and an
    additional 600 participants and volunteers, our mission is to
    preserve and restore the wild landscapes of the Whychus-
    Deschutes area, which includes the Deschutes Canyon-Steelhead
    Falls Wilderness Study Area that will be impacted by H.R. 2075.
        FANs has long recognized the need to implement fire risk
    reduction measures on both public and private lands in and
    around Crooked River Ranch. We worked for over a year with
    others in the community, including the fire chief, the HOA
    Board President and the appropriate federal agencies to develop
    a collaborative concept that would ensure Crooked River Ranch
    is better protected from wildfire while also resolving the
    status of the entire WSA.
        A concept emerged from those meetings that is a true win-
    win solution. The approach would result in fire risk mitigation
    activities in the form of fuels treatment on BLM lands adjacent
    to Crooked River Ranch, wilderness protection for certain
    qualified public lands, and release of certain lands from WSA
    status.
        Our organization is not opposed to WSA release. In fact, it
    was FANs representatives on the working group that introduced
    the idea as a part of the collaborative process. But we have
    several serious concerns about the approach of H.R. 2075.
        First, removing 832 acres from the WSA alone will not
    ensure that necessary fuels reduction to reduce fire risk will
    take place and that the fragile rim habitat will be protected.
    FANs believes that the released lands should be designated as a
    special management area to prioritize fire prevention and
    define appropriate and responsible recreation for the area.
        Two, abandoning the local stakeholder process, H.R. 2075
    simply adopts a single recommendation while ignoring the
    remainder. FANs believes that this action ignores Oregon's long
    history of balanced and locally-driven legislation that enjoys
    broad support.
        Three, the bill does not resolve the status of the public
    lands currently managed as the Deschutes Canyon-Steelhead Falls
    WSA. FANs believes that the land that would remain after the
    release of the 832 acres should be permanently protected as
    wilderness.
        Four, the bill does not address protection for Lower
    Whychus Creek, a tributary of the Deschutes River. Many
    organizations are working to preserve this central Oregon
    jewel, including the Deschutes Land Trust, that has acquired
    much of the private land holdings. FANs believes that the
    public lands in the lower reaches of Whychus Canyon need to be
    permanently protected as either wilderness or a wild and scenic
    river.
        Although the public lands impacted by H.R. 2075 are located
    in our backyard at Crooked River Ranch, Whychus-Deschutes
    contains outstanding recreation opportunities, one of the
    highest concentrations of cultural sites and artifacts in our
    region, and critical habitat for native plants, fish, and
    wildlife. All of these resources are currently threatened by
    illegal off-road vehicle abuse, recreation overuse, and
    vandalism. Certain public lands in this area need and deserve
    permanent protection.
        Finally, public land managers must have the direction and
    the resources to tackle these complex and serious issues. FANs
    believes a comprehensive solution based on true local
    collaboration is possible for this area. I urge the Committee
    to expand this bill to address the concerns of all the
    stakeholders of this incredible wild landscape.
        Thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify on H.R.
    2075, and I'm willing to entertain any questions.
        Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Keyser follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Lee. Thank you, Ms. Keyser.
        Thanks to each of you for your opening statements.
        Before we begin five-minute rounds of questions, we have
    now been joined by our Ranking Democrat, Senator Wyden, and we
    are going to turn some time over to him.

                     STATEMENT OF HON. RON WYDEN,
                        U.S. SENATOR FROM OREGON

        Senator Wyden. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I will be
    brief. I know colleagues have been waiting as well.
        I just want to take a couple minutes to talk about a bill
    that is very important in my home state. It is called the
    Crooked River Ranch Fire Protection Act. We really got into
    this issue--my wife and I and our kids had just had the good
    fortune of having great snow at [Mt.] Bachelor and we came down
    from the mountain and we basically had a town meeting. The
    whole family was there in January 2015 in Bend, and we had not
    really even gotten out of our snow boots when this legislation
    came up, the Crooked River Ranch Fire Protection Act.
        And, well, let's cut to the bottom line here. We all feel
    very, very strongly about protecting the West from fire. These
    are not your grandfather's fires.
        Senator Heinrich and my colleague from Nevada, Senator
    Cortez Masto, understand how important this is. These are
    galloping fires that cross rivers, so we have to have strong
    protections to deal with fire and that is central to this
    question.
        Representative Walden introduced the Crooked River Ranch
    Fire Protection Act. There are a number of challenges that face
    residents at Crooked River Ranch. Many of the homes at Crooked
    River Ranch are adjacent to the Deschutes Canyon-Steelhead
    Falls Wilderness Area and one of the region's most iconic
    landscapes. The Crooked River legislation adjusts the boundary
    of the wilderness study area in the hopes that fire prevention
    can be made more aggressive to protect the neighboring homes
    within the Ranch.
        And as I said, Senator Cortez Masto, Senator Heinrich,
    myself, Senator Flake, Senator Daines, we all are there in
    terms of dealing with fire. That is what the legislation to end
    fire borrowing was all about. That is what the Forest Service
    did last week in response to my request, basically laying out a
    program for prioritizing reducing hazardous fuels in the most
    dangerous areas.
        So you have a big group of Western Senators that are on the
    program, but there is another set of issues that we have to
    address. And that is, for example, what is going to happen to
    homes and backyards if the public land nearby is not managed
    properly? And the community wants to work with us, wants to
    work with the Congressman from the area, Congressman Walden, to
    deal with these issues.
        I want to close by welcoming Marilynne Keyser, who cut
    short a vacation and various family plans to get here. She has
    been coming to our town meetings and we want a citizen-driven
    solution to this, but then one that incorporates everyone's
    input.
        I also want to welcome Mr. Casamassa. He is going to be the
    next Region 6 Director. We look forward to working with him at
    home.
        One last point, if I might. Senator Hatch's Emory County
    bill--my partner on the Senate Finance Committee, has been
    working on this for many years in working to balance
    conservation and other management uses. Everybody knows public
    lands bills, and we westerners know you never get everything
    you want. You never get everything you believe you ought to
    have, but the question is, can you find a path to actually go
    forward and address concerns? I have indicated to Chairman Lee
    that I am going to work very closely with him to see if we can
    work this out with Chairman Hatch who is retiring at the end of
    this year. I think this is an important effort and I want to
    work with the two of you, both friends, to get it done.
        Thank you.
        Senator Lee. Thank you very much, Senator Wyden.
        We will now begin five-minute rounds of questioning,
    alternating between Republicans and Democrats.
        I would like to start with Mr. McAlear.
        As I mentioned in my opening statement, the Omnibus Public
    Lands Management Act of 2009 directed the Bureau of Land
    Management to identify alternatives for a northern
    transportation route through Washington County, Utah. Now the
    Records of Decision have been finalized for all of the resource
    management plans in the County but, nonetheless, no route was
    identified. Can you tell me why the Bureau of Land Management
    did not comply with that specific requirement before signing
    the Records of Decision?
        Mr. McAlear. Thank you, Senator.
        This Administration and Secretary Zinke are committed to
    ensuring that the Department be a good neighbor to its
    communities across the rural West, and we look forward to
    working with you, St. George, and Washington County on a more
    constructive way to address these important infrastructure
    needs going forward.
        Senator Lee. But, again, it has been a while since this has
    happened. I would like to remind the Bureau that the 2009 bill,
    in addition to the fact that it was passed almost a decade ago,
    required the development of a comprehensive travel management
    plan including, specifically, the identification of a northern
    transportation route in Washington County, within three years.
    That part of it was required by that law to be done within
    three years, and it has now been nearly a decade since that
    bill was passed. When will the BLM finally identify
    alternatives for that route?
        Mr. McAlear. So the BLM is currently working to resolve
    this issue. We are working not only through this bill but also
    working on getting the Habitat Conservation Plan renewed. And
    this Administration and Secretary Zinke support getting this
    infrastructure in place for the County.
        Senator Lee. Okay.
        I want to impress upon you, as much as I am capable of
    communicating, and I do so respectfully but with great urgency,
    the fact that this needs to happen. More than three times the
    amount of time identified by the statute has now passed and
    this needs to be done yesterday. It needs to be done
    immediately.
        Also sir, once the helium reserve is retired in 2021, where
    will U.S. helium users get most of their supply? What will they
    rely on?
        Mr. McAlear. So, I think from the Federal Helium Reserve,
    the short answer is that we don't know.
        Our testimony does point to the benefits of a royalty-in-
    kind program that we presented to Congress that would provide
    federal agencies with an assured source of helium, also now a
    critical mineral, and we would like to have further discussions
    with you about that.
        Senator Lee. Okay.
        I think it is important we make sure that there is a
    thriving, robust market and that we do everything we can to
    make sure that we do not put impediments in the way of the
    development of that market within the United States.
        Ms. Keyser, you reference in your testimony that H.R. 2074
    is not comprehensive enough to address the threat of fire to
    the community and that additional designations for other lands
    are needed.
        Can you help me understand how it is that additional
    special designations such as putting the remainder of the WSA
    into wilderness would, in fact, at the end of the day, reduce
    the threat of fire to the community?
        Ms. Keyser. Thank you, Senator Lee.
        The point of that comment in my written testimony is that
    simply releasing the land, the 832 acres which is the rim of
    the Deschutes Canyon, without direction for what needs to take
    place on that land--fuels reduction and also protection for the
    resource itself--might, in fact, lead to nothing being done on
    that released land. So we feel strongly that there needs to be
    direction and a special management area designation that
    requires that fuels reduction to happen.
        And with respect to the risk, the habitat risk on the
    canyon rim, I think the main concern here would be not to have
    vehicular traffic on that rim, ATVs and that sort of thing. So
    that's something that you could get through the planning
    process if, in fact, a special management area was created for
    the released land.
        Senator Lee. In fact, in theory, you could have an increase
    if there is no fuel reduction. There is a theoretical
    possibility that you could actually be increasing the risk of
    fire if there is no fuel reduction.
        Ms. Keyser. That's true.
        And the other piece is if you don't restrict vehicular
    traffic out there you could also add to the risk of additional
    wildfire. So, yes, we truly support the movement of the release
    of these lands for that purpose, but we need to make sure that
    it happens and happens quickly.
        Senator Lee. Thank you.
        Senator Wyden.
        Senator Wyden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        As I indicated, we don't take a back seat to anybody in
    terms of reducing fire risk. Senator Crapo and I, as folks on
    this Committee know, spent six years and got 270 groups,
    industry groups, environmental groups, and others to get us
    back to emphasizing fire prevention. So we are all there on
    that, every single Democrat, every single Republican, lots of
    sweat equity in this Committee on that.
        I imagine a lot of folks at home are watching this on the
    live stream. Folks at Crooked River want to know how their land
    is actually going to get managed.
        Mr. McAlear, I want to get to the issue that apparently
    your agency does not own all the land in question. I quote,
    ``The Department determined that a portion of the wilderness
    study area may fall under the administrative jurisdiction of
    the U.S. Department of Agriculture.'' So my question for you,
    Mr. McAlear, BLM, do you know how much land is in question and
    how that will affect management?
        Mr. McAlear. So, thank you, Senator.
        We will continue working with the Forest Service on any
    boundary movements. Right now, I think that there is some
    confusion on exactly where that boundary is, but we have a good
    partnership with the Forest Service. We'll continue working
    with them. And----
        Senator Wyden. But would it be fair to say, because I know
    time is short and my colleagues have been, the Senators from
    Nevada and New Mexico have been so deferential, it seems to me
    it is clear that this is going to take some work before we get
    this out of Committee. Is that correct?
        Mr. McAlear. It's going to take some work, and we would
    love to be able to work with you.
        Senator Wyden. Very good.
        Mr. Casamassa, I just want to be clear that you are going
    to, because you always have, you all are going to work with us
    and try to deal with this. This is to say, I think folks at
    Crooked River understand how serious this is as it relates to
    fire, and they also want to make sure that some of these other
    issues are answered. So you will work with us, just as Mr.
    McAlear is talking about?
        Mr. Casamassa. Yes, for sure.
        Senator Wyden. Very good, very good.
        Now one other question on this for both of you.
        The Department of the Interior recognizes, in your
    testimony, the importance of addressing management on the
    larger Deschutes Canyon-Steelhead Falls Wilderness Study Area.
    I gather that this is another area where we can work
    cooperatively.
        If Senator Merkley, my colleague from Oregon, and I put
    together a stakeholder-driven public process, would your agency
    be willing to participate?
        Mr. Casamassa. In terms of that's the way that I would
    advocate that we move forward with recognizing that there's
    multiple jurisdictions, communities of interest and community
    leaders that all share in managing these lands. And I think
    it's important to work through that within a collaborative
    fashion.
        Senator Wyden. Let the record show that is a yes.
        Mr. McAlear?
        Mr. McAlear. Thank you.
        And yes, of course.
        Senator Wyden. Great.
        Ms. Keyser, one question for you, if I might.
        Again, we cannot say enough about how serious this issue of
    fire is all about. I hope sometime soon to get home again to
    talk to the communities that have been getting clobbered. I
    mean, I think these fire problems are basically creating clear
    air refugees because people are traipsing around trying to find
    clean air.
        So fire continues to be right at the top of what the
    communities are concerned about. What other management focus or
    reforms would you like to see that would protect you and your
    neighbors?
        Ms. Keyser. Well, in addition to what we've discussed and
    what this bill contains, Senator?
        Senator Wyden. Yes.
        Ms. Keyser. Well, as I said in my testimony, there needs to
    be both--there needs to be fire reduction on both private and
    public lands. And one of the problems, well, at Crooked River
    Ranch our HOA has done a fabulous job of doing fuels reduction
    work on the common land owned by the HOA.
        One of our problems is that there's excessive vegetation on
    private land in Crooked River Ranch that needs to be addressed
    as well, and very few landowners have actually done what needs
    to be done to make their property safe in a wildland urban
    interface. So that's one issue.
        Senator Wyden. Okay.
        I again want to thank my colleagues for allowing me to go
    first. And your point is one we stress here and that is these
    big fires, they do not know any kind of boundaries, you know.
        Ms. Keyser. They don't.
        Senator Wyden. We had one that leaped the Columbia River.
    Rivers always used to be a break, so this is unprecedented. And
    these fires, particularly these infernos, do not stop at state
    or private lands. To your point with respect to acknowledging
    that as part of any solution is spot on.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, colleagues.
        Senator Lee. Thank you, Senator Wyden.
        Senator Daines.
        Senator Daines. Thank you, Chairman Lee.
        As you know, six million acres have already burned during
    this year's wildfire season. In fact, in Montana alone, we have
    over 900 fires occurring to date.
        I applaud Secretary Purdue's new strategy to work more
    closely with states to reduce the threat of wildfires. I told
    the Secretary last week this is a breath of fresh air in the
    midst of a lot of smoky air that we see across Montana.
        Unfortunately, in Montana and Idaho especially, there is
    more than a decade of obstructionist litigation that has slowed
    forest management projects, many of which include treatments to
    reduce the risks of wildfire.
        I have a bill with Senator Risch and Senator Crapo, the
    Protect Collaboration for Healthier Forests Act, which would
    establish a pilot program in Region One to resolve disputes
    against forest management projects through arbitration rather
    than the courtroom. To be eligible for arbitration, the
    projects would need to be developed through a collaborative
    process. We are going to incentivize collaboratives, and they
    would have to reduce the risk of wildfire.
        An arbitration pilot would ensure swifter resolution. It
    has bipartisan roots. In fact, the Forest Service during both
    the Obama Administration and the Trump Administration has
    supported establishing this authority. It is time for Congress,
    in my opinion, to give the Forest Service this tool.
        Currently, in Montana, there are 27 timber sales under
    litigation; 21 are enjoined, preventing the work on over 17,000
    acres. In fact, just last week the Teepee Creek Stewardship
    project on the Custer Gallatin National Forest was enjoined
    after one day of work where the crews were onsite starting the
    thinning project. Crews had to stop the work. In fact, I just
    found out that vandals have gone and vandalized a $500,000
    piece of equipment, the feller buncher. It is understandable to
    wonder whether environmental extremists were involved in this.
        Mr. Casamassa, does litigation or the threat of litigation
    continue to impede restoration projects on the national forests
    in Montana?
        Mr. Casamassa. Yeah, Senator, it does.
        Senator Daines. And do these projects take into account
    public input when they are developed?
        Mr. Casamassa. Yeah, the environmental analysis we do is
    deliberate. It is open to the public, and we solicit input in
    fashioning the decisions that we make.
        Senator Daines. Is it fair to say that these projects often
    involve work to reduce hazardous fuels?
        Mr. Casamassa. Not only do--yes, it does. It is fair to say
    that and that there are a number of other activities that we
    would like to have active management on in the Forest Service
    that are influenced by and stopped by litigation.
        Senator Daines. Litigation can take years to resolve which
    hurts forest health, is expensive, and it makes it very hard
    for Montana's wood product industry to make business decisions.
        Mr. Casamassa, can you discuss the advantages of
    arbitration and whether the agency views arbitration as a way
    to resolve disputes in a way that is faster and perhaps more
    certain?
        Mr. Casamassa. Yes, Senator, I think, in looking at a
    different venue, a different avenue by which we could implement
    projects, arbitration seems to be a tool that should be at
    least looked at and tried in a pilot fashion in order to see
    what, how more effective and efficient we can be in moving from
    a decision to actual implementation on the ground.
        Senator Daines. Now, Senate bill 2160 includes what we call
    the ``baseball style'' arbitration where a qualified arbiter
    decides whether the agency's proposal, or an alternative
    proposed by an objector, or neither proposal will move forward.
        Another approach would be for the arbitrator to simply
    serve the role as a judge and determine whether the agency's
    proposal is consistent with the applicable forest plan and
    follows all relevant laws and regulations.
        Mr. Casamassa, is there an approach that the Forest Service
    would prefer to pilot as it relates to arbitration?
        Mr. Casamassa. I think that based on what you have just
    described, Senator, it would be the idea of seeing whether an
    arbiter would determine whether or not we had followed all
    applicable environmental law, disclosed those impacts to the
    public, and that we were in line with that. And so, that seems
    to be a reasonable approach to looking at using this tool as
    arbitration in a piloted fashion within the limited area of
    Montana and Northern Idaho.
        Senator Daines. Mr. Chairman, I just want to, again, remind
    this Committee that as we speak there are 27 timber sales
    currently under litigation in Montana as I cannot even see the
    mountains out the back door of my home, those woods are just a
    few miles away, because of the smoke.
        Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Wyden, combating chronic
    litigation does not erode public input, it safeguards it. It
    does so by ensuring that consensus-driven decisions of the
    majority are not obstructed by isolated dissenters, in most
    cases, extreme environmental groups.
        I look forward to working with both of you to bring this
    commonsense bill for a markup and to the Floor soon.
        Thank you.
        Senator Lee. Senator Heinrich.
        Senator Heinrich. Mr. McAlear, as you mentioned in your
    testimony, in the West it is common for public lands to be very
    intermixed. You have state, private, and tribal lands all mixed
    together in something we often refer to as a checkerboard. How
    does that checkerboard pattern complicate BLM's management of
    public lands?
        Mr. McAlear. Checkerboard sets up a lot more property
    boundaries and makes it a lot more difficult to be able to
    manage across a landscape rather than, you know, having, in
    this case with checkerboards, is that we're only able to manage
    small pieces, parcels at a time.
        Senator Heinrich. So, for example, even with regard to fire
    management, it is much harder to manage the landscape as a
    whole if you are dealing with multiple different property
    owners all with different goals.
        Mr. McAlear. Absolutely.
        Senator Heinrich. Would the BLM's ability to meet its
    conservation and recreation missions be enhanced if you had
    more flexibility to resolve those inholdings in conservation
    land units like monuments and wilderness study areas?
        Mr. McAlear. Yes.
        And you know, the Secretary has stressed that it is really
    important to him that the public have access for recreational
    purposes, and by being able to have large, federal blocks of
    land rather than interspersed with private parcels or state
    parcels, it makes it a lot easier to manage.
        Senator Heinrich. I want to move to Chaco real quick.
        Chaco Cultural National Historical Park is a designated
    International Dark Sky Park. The dark night sky at Chaco is not
    only an asset for astronomers and stargazers who come from all
    over the country to utilize that resource, but also for
    understanding the original purpose and meaning of the
    structures that are built in Chaco Canyon. Several of the most
    significant buildings to Chaco were built in alignment with
    astronomical events like the solstice. The meaning of Chaco is
    intricately connected to the natural environment, including the
    night environment where it is located. How is the BLM
    considering light pollution and the dark night sky in its
    ongoing planning process in the Chaco area?
        Mr. McAlear. So the BLM recognizes that dark skies are an
    important issue, and we are currently analyzing the impacts of
    oil and gas development. We are also looking at technology and
    best business practices as we take part in a resource
    management plan amendment.
        Senator Heinrich. Would you agree that limiting oil and gas
    development within the ten-mile park buffer could significantly
    contribute to the protection of Chaco's night sky?
        Mr. McAlear. So Senate bill 2907, the map that is part of
    that bill, would withdraw the public lands ten miles around the
    Chaco Cultural Natural Historical Park.
        Senator Heinrich. Mr. Casamassa, I just want to get you
    really quickly on the record on something.
        In your view has climate change contributed to the severity
    and the frequency of forest fires in the West?
        Mr. Casamassa. Yes, Senator.
        I think, based on my experience working in the field and
    managing large suppression efforts, what I have seen over the
    course of time is that the fire season is prolonged. In fact, I
    was just talking with some folks about how, along the front
    range of Colorado, one season we had fires in every single
    month of the year.
        Senator Heinrich. Yes, we used to have a fire season. Now
    we have a fire situation that has to be managed year-round.
        Mr. Casamassa. And we know that, you know, I think on the
    average we have extended our fire season around 80 days per
    year and that there are some indications that overall there is
    a change in the weather, there is a change in our approach to
    how we manage fires. And all the arrows and evidence in my mind
    would point toward a change in some of the conditions that
    we're working through right now.
        Senator Heinrich. Mr. McAlear, on S. 2809, I wanted to ask
    you, as that is currently written, would that bill allow the
    State of Utah to acquire land within the reservation of the Ute
    Tribe, even if those acquisitions were potentially against
    their will? Have you looked at the land swap issue with regard
    to that legislation, the Hatch legislation?
        Mr. McAlear. Yeah, I am not as familiar with that piece of
    the legislation, but we would certainly take that question back
    and get you an answer.
        Senator Heinrich. If you could take that for the record, I
    would appreciate it.
        Mr. Chair, it looks like I am running out of time so I am
    going to yield back.
        Senator Lee. Thank you very much.
        Senator Flake.
        Senator Flake. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks for holding
    this hearing. I appreciated working with Senator Heinrich again
    on the ACE Act we have introduced and appreciate the comments
    about it.
        We all know that federal land managers and state land
    managers often have conflicting priorities, and we feel that
    this bill is a win-win for everybody. State land trusts get to
    swap their trapped lands for those with greater economic
    potential. Federal land managers get to eliminate inholdings.
        I grew up in Northern Arizona. We had a family ranch. We
    dealt with the checkerboard pattern quite a bit. I know the
    difficulty for land managers to deal with situations like this.
    So we are trying to make it better.
        I am happy to see the BLM recognizes the merits of the bill
    and supports the goals of the legislation. Land exchanges
    between states and federal agencies are, oftentimes, complex
    arrangements. We know this requires extensive appraisals,
    analyses, and environmental reviews.
        How long, on average, Mr. McAlear, does it take for BLM and
    the states to finalize a land exchange? On the average, I know
    it is a lot.
        Mr. McAlear. Senator, I do not have a specific timeframe
    for that. Just, like you said----
        Senator Flake. Right.
        Mr. McAlear. ----some of them are a lot more complex than
    others.
        Senator Flake. How would BLM states and the public benefit
    from consistency and predictability that our bill seeks to
    bring to state land exchanges?
        Mr. McAlear. Yeah, certainly, this bill fits within the
    Secretary's priorities of recreation, public access, and
    working with local communities.
        Senator Flake. Alright, thank you.
        Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Senator Lee. Senator Cortez Masto.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Thank you to the witnesses that are here today as well. I
    look forward to working with you, along with my colleagues, on
    the pending legislation.
        Since I have the opportunity though, I would like to
    highlight a particular bill. A week ago I introduced S. 3349,
    the Storey County Land Conveyance Act, and the bill provides
    technical fixes to a 2014 law originally meant to resolve
    conflicting title issues between residential property, private
    property owners, and the BLM in Storey County, Nevada.
    Conflicting claims to these properties were caused by improper
    federal conveyance of land surface rights for residential and
    non-mining commercial uses stemming from the 19th century.
        The 2014 law contains language that conflicts with BLM's
    land survey and conveyance procedures, and the effort to
    provide legal certainty to my constituents in Storey County has
    been on hold ever since. I bring this up today as my staff and
    I have been working with Storey County, the BLM, and the
    Interior Department on making sure we have the necessary
    language to help those Nevadans whose property has been in
    legal limbo.
        Although we were unable to have my bill included on today's
    agenda, I have received assurances from the Interior Department
    that they will work with us to move my bill through the
    legislative process as soon as possible. I just want to confirm
    that I do have that commitment from Interior and the BLM to
    work with me on this bill.
        Mr. McAlear. Yes, Senator, you do have that commitment from
    Interior to continue working with you on that bill.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I appreciate that.
        And so, Mr. Chair, I also ask for support from you and your
    staff to help solve and resolve this issue as expediently as
    possible, and I look forward to working with you.
        Senator Lee. Thank you.
        Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
        Senator Lee. Thank you very much.
        If there are no further questions from members today,
    members may also submit written follow-up questions for the
    record and for that purpose we will keep the record open for
    two weeks.
        I want to thank the witnesses for their time and for their
    attention to detail, their willingness to come and speak to us
    today.
        This hearing stands adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 10:58 a.m. the hearing was adjourned.]

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