    [Senate Hearing 115-304]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 115-304

     LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON S. 2800, AMERICA'S WATER INFRASTRUCTURE ACT OF
                                      2018

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                         ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                                  MAY 9, 2018

                                   __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on Environment and Public Works

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            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                   __________

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                   COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC WORKS

                         ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS
                                 SECOND SESSION

                        JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming, Chairman
    JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma            THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware,
    SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia      Ranking Member
    JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas               BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland
    ROGER WICKER, Mississippi            BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
    DEB FISCHER, Nebraska                SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
    JERRY MORAN, Kansas                  JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon
    MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota            KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND, New York
    JONI ERNST, Iowa                     CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
    DAN SULLIVAN, Alaska                 EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
    RICHARD SHELBY, Alabama              TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
                                         CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland

                  Richard M. Russell, Majority Staff Director
                   Gabrielle Batkin, Minority Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                                  MAY 9, 2018
                               OPENING STATEMENTS

    Barrasso, Hon. John, U.S. Senator from the State of Wyoming......     1
    Carper, Hon. Thomas R., U.S. Senator from the State of Delaware..     2
    Inhofe, Hon. James M., U.S. Senator from the State of Oklahoma...     5
    Cardin, Hon. Benjamin L., U.S. Senator from the State of Maryland     6

                                   WITNESSES

    Riley, Pat, Advisory Committee Member, Family Farm Alliance......     8
        Prepared statement...........................................    11
        Response to an additional question from Senator Barrasso.....    26
    Sternberg, Dennis, Executive Director, Arkansas Rural Water
      Association....................................................    28
        Prepared statement...........................................    30
        Response to an additional question from Senator Barrasso.....    38
    Swallow, Kristina, President, American Society of Civil Engineers    41
        Prepared statement...........................................    43
    Bullock, Hon. Jeffrey, Secretary of State, State of Delaware.....    50
        Prepared statement...........................................    52
        Response to an additional question from Senator Barrasso.....    58
    Pratt, Tony, President, American Shore and Beach Preservation
      Association....................................................    59
        Prepared statement...........................................    61

                              ADDITIONAL MATERIAL

    Letter to Senator Baldwin from Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage
      District, January 29, 2018.....................................   105
    Letter to Senator Baldwin from NEW Water, January 30, 2018.......   106

     LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON S. 2800, AMERICA'S WATER INFRASTRUCTURE ACT OF
                                      2018

                                  ----------

                             WEDNESDAY, MAY 9, 2018

                                           U.S. Senate,
                     Committee on Environment and Public Works,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m. in
    room 406, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John Barrasso
    (Chairman of the Committee) presiding.
        Present: Senators Barrasso, Carper, Inhofe, Capito,
    Boozman, Wicker, Fischer, Rounds, Ernst, Sullivan, Cardin,
    Whitehouse, Gillibrand, Booker, Markey, and Van Hollen.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO,
                 U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING

        Senator Barrasso. Good morning. I call this hearing to
    order.
        We are here to examine legislation titled America's Water
    Infrastructure Act of 2018. This is bipartisan legislation.
    This legislation is introduced along with Committee Ranking
    Member Carper, Transportation and Infrastructure Subcommittee
    Chairman Inhofe, and Subcommittee Ranking Member Cardin.
        The Senate Committee of the Environment and Public Works
    has jurisdiction over much of our Nation's water
    infrastructure, including locks and dams, inland waterways,
    irrigation and water systems, and ports. These infrastructure
    systems are critical to keeping America prosperous and safe
    from dangerous floods and contaminated water sources.
        This bipartisan legislation is a result of significant work
    in negotiations among the members of our Committee, and I want
    to thank each and every one of the members of the Committee for
    their efforts.
        The discussions are ongoing. We plan to add a bipartisan
    manager's amendment to the bill, when we mark it up later this
    month, in order to address a number of other outstanding
    issues.
        Water infrastructure is important to every region, to every
    State, to every tribe, and to every community in America.
    America's Water Infrastructure Act is going to support our
    Nation's economic competitiveness by increasing water storage,
    by deepening nationally significant ports, by addressing aging
    irrigation systems, and by maintaining the navigability of
    inland waterways across the country.
        In my home State of Wyoming and across the West, water
    storage capacity and supply are vital to local economies.
    Sediment build up behind dams severely limits water storage.
    Our bill is going to address this problem by directing the
    Bureau of Reclamation and the Army Corps of Engineers to
    develop sediment management plans for Federal reservoirs.
        America's Water Infrastructure Act will also expand our
    Nation's water storage capability by facilitating the
    permitting of additional reservoirs. For example, in Wyoming,
    the bill would approve the expansion of water storage at the
    Bureau of Reclamation's Fontenelle Reservoir in Lincoln County.
        Expanding water storage will give our farmers, ranchers,
    and communities a reliable supply of water in order to keep
    their livestock and their crops healthy. More water storage
    also provides an economic incentive for new businesses to grow
    and to create jobs throughout the Nation.
        America's Water Infrastructure Act will also fix
    deteriorating irrigation systems that are vital for growing
    crops and for raising livestock.
        The legislation isn't just important for rural America.
    Dredging nationally significant ports and maintaining our
    inland waterways will enhance our growing economy. Goods and
    raw materials need to move from the heartland to the coast for
    export. The bill is designed to maintain these vital arteries
    of commerce. It is good for big cities and for rural
    communities alike.
        This legislation is also about health and safety. It
    includes provisions to repair old drinking water and wastewater
    systems, protecting communities from contaminated water
    sources. The bill will make it easier for the Army Corps to
    take steps to keep communities safe from flooding. It will
    address maintenance needs of older dams and levees that protect
    communities from dangerous floodwaters.
        Finally, this bill will create an addition to the benefit-
    cost ratio framework. The addition will give local stakeholders
    a greater role in prioritizing Army Corps projects. Under this
    new provision, more projects are likely to be built in small
    rural and inland States.
        America's Water Infrastructure Act is going to authorize or
    reauthorize important water infrastructure programs and
    projects that benefit all 50 States, so I urge my colleagues to
    work with me in a bipartisan way to pass this important
    legislation so we can create American jobs and promote our
    Nation's prosperity, health, and safety.
        With that, I would like to turn to the Ranking Member and
    cosponsor of the legislation, Senator Carper, for his
    statement.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS R. CARPER,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF DELAWARE

        Senator Carper. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
        As my colleagues know, I take the train most days down to
    Washington from Delaware. Almost every day somebody on the
    platform, waiting to catch the train, will come up to me and
    say I wouldn't have your job for all the tea in China; you must
    hate your job. I really don't at all. I feel lucky to be here.
    I feel lucky to serve with the men and women around us on this
    Committee and in the Senate.
        I wouldn't want to spike the football too early, but this
    is a day to celebrate. This is a victory, I think, in
    introducing this legislation, for bipartisanship, for fiscal
    responsibility. This is a victory for environmental soundness.
    It is good for the economy and embraces the idea of using some
    common sense, so I think we can be proud of this.
        My colleagues hear me from time to time quote Lincoln. What
    is the role of government? The role of the government is to do
    for the people what they cannot do for themselves. Think about
    that.
        One of the major roles of government is to create a
    nurturing environment for job creation and job preservation,
    along with a lot of other stakeholders. We try to do that, and
    I think successfully with this legislation.
        So, my thanks to our colleagues on my left here, Senator
    Cardin, my thanks to Jim Inhofe and your staff, certainly to
    our Chairman for working with us and with our colleagues on
    this Committee and off the Committee to address America's water
    infrastructure needs.
        Our bill, titled ``America's Water Infrastructure Act,'' is
    an important piece of legislation, given that the authorization
    law under which the Corps of Engineers currently operates
    expires come December. I am proud of the bipartisan work we
    have done together on this legislation. We are stronger
    together, and I hope that it will serve as a model for work
    that we on this Committee, along with others, can do in the
    future, this year and beyond.
        Before I comment on the bill, I just want to thank all the
    witnesses for joining us today. I especially want to thank Jeff
    Bullock, who is our Secretary of State for the State of
    Delaware, who previously worked with me when I was a
    Congressman and with my chief of staff as Governor, and for a
    little bit as chief of staff for my first year in the U.S.
    Senate.
        Sitting right behind in the audience is Jonathan Jones, who
    worked as part of our team, who was my chief of staff. Two of
    my chiefs of staff here, former chiefs of staff here.
        People ask me why I have had some success. I always
    surround myself with people smarter than me, and these are a
    couple of them, and we are delighted that they are here.
        I want to welcome back Tony Pratt, who is the President of
    the American Shore and Beach Preservation Association. He has
    been here before. He is a senior member of our Department of
    Environmental Protection in Delaware Natural Resources and
    Environmental Protection, and we thank Tony for joining us, and
    all of our other witnesses, too.
        Coastal issues are extremely important to everybody in the
    room, but especially to the lowest lying State in our country,
    that would be Delaware, and the water resources bill is
    critical to our State's economy as it is to many other States.
        Delaware's economic reliance on the Corps' work is not
    unique. I was astounded by this fact, but over 90 percent of
    U.S. overseas trade volume--over 90 percent of U.S. overseas
    trade volume--moves through coastal channels that the Corps
    maintains. Think about that. Over 90 percent of U.S. overseas
    trade volume moves through coastal channels that the Corps
    maintains. They have an incredible job, incredible
    responsibility for all of us.
        The Corps inland waterways and locks form a freight
    network. Think of it almost as a water highway that provides
    access to international markets through our ports. They also
    serve as critical infrastructure for the U.S. military.
        Our bill authorizes investments in this system in multiple
    ways, multiple ways. Most notably, it positions the Corps to be
    an active partner with ports, with communities, with States,
    with tribes, and other stakeholders in growing and expanding
    our Nation's economy.
        A reinvestment in this partnership is much needed. For the
    better part of a decade now, the executive branch has
    calculated water project costs and benefits in a way that has
    led to a backlog of unfunded and uncompleted--but needed--
    projects. Our bill works to address this problem by authorizing
    new funding and project planning requirements at the Corps'
    most local level, including individual Corps districts.
        This legislation requires local participation in the
    development of new district plans, too, and hopefully this
    participation will allow for a more transparent and long-term
    look at the Corps' activities and serve to build a better and
    bigger groundswell of support for increased appropriations for
    the agency's initiatives down the line.
        Our legislation also invests nationally in both coasts and
    inland waterways. I am particularly proud of a provision that
    will support the selection of natural infrastructure
    alternatives as a practical solution in situations where and
    when the development of gray or more traditional infrastructure
    alone may not work.
        The Corps of Engineers also works to reduce risk to human
    safety and property damage from flooding. Flooding alone
    currently costs the United States billions of dollars annually.
        As the 2017 hurricane season illustrated, our Nation needs
    to be ready for the next extreme storm or flood event, because
    it is coming. Earlier this year, NOAA, the National Oceanic and
    Atmospheric Administration, announced that the total cost for
    extreme weather and climate events in 2017--get this--exceeded
    $300 billion, a new annual record in the U.S. It is clearly not
    a matter of if the next extreme weather event is coming; it is
    a matter of when.
        Our bill allows the Secretary of the Army to waive the cost
    share for hazard mitigation related feasibility studies so that
    we can be shovel ready before the next storm hits.
    Additionally, the bill modifies the Corps' existing emergency
    authorities to allow the agency to participate in storm damage
    recovery for a longer period of time, make more resilient
    infrastructure decisions, and where appropriate, cost share
    infrastructure replacements so resources can go further.
        The American Society of Civil Engineers Infrastructure
    Report Card gives our country's dams, our levees, our inland
    waterways a D, as in dog, as in decrepit. It gives our
    country's dams, levees, and inland waterways a D, representing
    an overall cumulative investment backlog of nearly $140 billion
    in an authorized but unconstructed portfolio of $60 billion.
        The bill reauthorizes the Corps' dam safety programs and
    makes needed changes as proposed by civil engineers.
        Clearly, we have a lot of important work to do to move this
    bill across the goal line. However, if we continue to work, as
    we have, in a bipartisan fashion, I think we will get the bill
    done, and our country will be better for it.
        Mr. Chairman, thank you again for your leadership on this
    bill and for your staff's hard work.
        I also want to thank our partners. I want to thank Senator
    Inhofe, who has worked in these vineyards before; Senator
    Cardin, as well, and your staffs for being a part of this
    process.
        I just want to briefly recognize the staff members who are
    among those who worked very hard on this bill. They include
    Brian, Andy, Pauline, Lizzy, Craig, May, Jennie. In addition, I
    want to thank Christina Baysinger, Skylar Bayer, and John Kane
    of our own staff on the minority side. All of our staff has
    spent countless hours working together through provisions that
    matter not just for Wyoming, not just for Delaware, but for our
    Nation as a whole.
        Again, we welcome our witnesses. We look forward to hearing
    from each of you this morning to make this very good piece of
    legislation even better in the weeks to come.
        Thank you so much.
        Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you very much, Senator
    Carper.
        I would like to now recognize the Chairman of the
    Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure, Senator
    Inhofe, if you have some comments you would like to share with
    us.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES M. INHOFE,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA

        Senator Inhofe. Well, I do. I do. I would introduce the
    staff people like Senator Carper did, except they are all over
    at the EPA, so they are not here today.
        Anyway, I thank you and the Ranking Member, Senator Cardin,
    for having this thing. I can remember the years that I chaired
    this Committee. We had gone through a number of years where we
    were supposed to do this, and everyone knows this, we were
    supposed to do it every 2 years. We had some periods of 4 or 6,
    and one 8-year period where we didn't do it. We got back on
    schedule, and I applaud the leadership of this Committee for
    continuing that.
        Now, in all the people who are here today, it is important
    that we keep it up, we keep it going, and we do it in the
    proper way. It is one of the few things that really works well
    in Government, is the way we do the WRDA bills.
        In Oklahoma, our State DOT has an 8-year plan which is
    updated yearly and is publicly available. Now, everybody knows,
    there are no secrets in this thing. They know what we are
    planning to do, they know well in advance. They participate in
    it.
        The budget reforms in this bill will provide an ongoing 5-
    year window of certainty and transparency, and allow for more
    input from stakeholders when creating priorities within the
    Corps' districts and headquarters.
        The bill will also help our communities in building out
    their water and wastewater systems and assist them in complying
    with the many Federal mandates that are creating so many
    problems for so many people.
        The growing communities in my State of Oklahoma, like
    Bartlesville, will be able to contract for additional water
    storage without breaking the bank. We have clarified language
    so that the stakeholders along the McClelland-Kerr Arkansas
    navigation system.
        Everyone in this room knows because you are all experts,
    but out in the real world, how many people know that we are
    navigable in the State of Oklahoma or in Arkansas? As we go
    through, I remember 100 years ago, when I was in the State
    Senate, someone came to me from the World War II Submarine
    Veterans Association, and they said, we'd like to demonstrate
    what we can do in Oklahoma. We are going to take a World War II
    submarine all the way from the Gulf of Mexico up through
    Arkansas to Oklahoma to the Port of Muskogee.
        They said it couldn't be done. All my adversaries were
    saying we are going to sink Inhofe with his submarine. All
    these things were going. But we actually did get all the way up
    there, and it was a great experience, so we are on the map.
        With entrepreneurs in Oklahoma like Grant Humphries--I was
    down at his operation not too long ago. I can remember when the
    Corps didn't provide any kind of help in recreational activity.
    They are doing it now, and we are doing it successfully.
        I know that no bill is perfect, and I know there are some
    concerns related to the Hopper dredge, and we are working on
    language, working closely with those who have a personal
    interest in that. We want to be sure that, if the private
    sector has areas where availability is not there, a compromise
    can be reached to try to accommodate those needs.
        So, I look forward to continue to work with my colleagues
    to improve this bill. This will be one of the major pieces of
    legislation that we can all be proud of.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Inhofe.
        I would now like to recognize the Ranking Member of the
    Subcommittee on Transportation and Infrastructure, Senator
    Cardin, if you have comments you would like to share with us.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BENJAMIN L. CARDIN,
                U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MARYLAND

        Senator Cardin. Well, Senator Barrasso, I want to join with
    Senator Carper and Senator Inhofe in congratulating you for
    bringing this bill to the Committee's attention in the best
    traditions of our Committee. I agree we should be doing these
    reauthorizations every 2 years in order to make sure that the
    authorizations are contemporary with need. It is our
    Committee's responsibility to do it, and you are carrying that
    out in the best traditions. It is certainly bipartisan, and it
    is focused on clean, safe water for our Nation, advancing water
    infrastructure for both public health and our economy, and
    doing it in a fiscally responsible way, so I am proud to be
    part of this effort.
        For our Nation, let me just mention three bills that I
    worked on with other members of this Committee in the U.S.
    Senate that parts are incorporated into this America's Water
    Infrastructure Act. I am pleased that a good part of S. 1137,
    the Clean, Safe, Reliable Water Infrastructure Act, is
    included. Senator Boozman has been one of the leaders on that,
    Senator Inhofe and Senator Duckworth, an important bill that
    deals with drinking water and wastewater infrastructure in our
    country.
        Parts of S. 692, the Water Infrastructure Flexibility Act,
    Senator Fischer was very much engaged in that Act, along with
    Senator Brown, that deals with the affordability, which is
    important to all parts of our country, but particularly to my
    State, in Baltimore, it is a major issue and deals with
    integrated planning of our water infrastructure.
        And then S. 451, the Water Resources Research Amendments,
    again by Senator Boozman, that we worked on for additional
    research into the effectiveness and efficiency of new and
    existing water treatment works.
        So, there is a lot of important work that is being done for
    national strategies dealing with modernizing our water
    infrastructure.
        I am proud of the impact this will have on the State of
    Maryland. I know that members of this Committee may be getting
    a little bit tired of my mentioning the Chesapeake Bay. I know
    that Senator Carper is not, and Senator Van Hollen is not, but
    others may. But the Chesapeake Bay, obviously, is a matter of
    major concern. Maryland is a coastal State, and this bill will
    help us deal with our coastal issues of the Chesapeake Bay and
    certainly the needs of the Port of Baltimore. We have other
    ports; we have a port in Salisbury, making sure that our
    channels are kept dredged at the right levels.
        I say that because this bill will deal with Poplar Island
    and Mid-Bay Island ecosystem restoration projects, and I really
    want to underscore this, because, when I first came to the U.S.
    Congress, the location of sites where we could put dredge
    material was extremely controversial, extremely controversial.
    Hart-Miller Island is famous for congressional races based
    around the future whether we could find sites to put dredge
    materials.
        That is no longer the case in our region thanks to Poplar
    Island, which not only serves as a location for dredge
    material, but is an ecosystem restoration project. Just
    recently I had the opportunity to take the leadership of the
    Army Corps to the site to take a look at it, and it is a model
    site for what we should be doing in reclaiming lands that were
    once there. This was once a habitable island that had gotten
    down to about five acres. It is now being restored to thousands
    of acres, and it is thriving as an environmental site.
        The next location will be Mid-Bay, and this legislation
    provides for the continuity of the locations for dredge sites
    in Maryland in the Chesapeake Bay for keeping our channels to
    the depths that are needed, because that is critically
    important to our economy and the ports.
        There is a provision in this bill that deals with the
    Anacostia River to complete the feasibility study. That is
    important.
        Last, Mr. Chairman, I want to mention the point you
    mentioned, and that is the cost-benefit analysis dealing with
    smaller facilities. We have, in Maryland, numerous sites that
    are critically important to get Army Corps work to deal with
    recreational and tourism issues, and your leadership here will
    make it more likely we can get those projects on schedule to
    get the work that they need.
        I am proud to be part of this effort.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Cardin.
        I would like to now ask Senator Boozman if he would like to
    introduce one of our guests.
        Senator Boozman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I just want to take a second to give a special thanks to
    Dennis Sternberg being here today. Mr. Sternberg has spent
    almost 40 years in water and wastewater industry in Arkansas,
    hailing from Greenbrier, Arkansas. Twenty-nine of those years
    were spent working in almost all field positions, as a field
    rep, EPA program manager, USDA circuit rider, and wastewater
    technician trainer.
        He and his Arkansas Rural Water Association staff are truly
    committed to the future of rural communities by assisting
    utilities throughout the State with the many challenges rural
    and small utilities continue to face.
        He holds the highest water and wastewater licenses in
    Arkansas: Class 4 water distribution and Class 4 water
    treatment and Class 4 wastewater license in Arkansas.
        In 2006 Mr. Sternberg received the Executive Director of
    the Year Award from National Rural Association, and in 2009 the
    United States Department of Agriculture and National Rural
    Water Association recognized Dennis for leadership in emergency
    response preparation.
        Mr. Sternberg, we truly do appreciate you being here and
    appreciate you bringing your knowledge of so many years, so
    much experience to the Committee today.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much, Senator Boozman.
        Well, we have a wonderful panel here to join us today.
        Pat Riley is here, the Advisory Committee Member from the
    Family Farm Alliance; Mr. Sternberg, who has just been
    recognized, is the Executive Director of the Arkansas Rural
    Water Association; Kristina Swallow, thank you for joining us,
    the President of the American Society of Civil Engineers; and
    then, of course, Jeff Bullock, Secretary of State from
    Delaware.
        I understand when you started working for him you had hair.
    That's what I hear.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Barrasso. And Tony Pratt, President of the American
    Shore and Beach Preservation Association.
        I want to remind our witnesses your full written testimony
    will be made part of the official record today. If you could
    please keep your statements to 5 minutes so we may have
    additional time for questions.
        I look forward to hearing your testimony, beginning with
    Mr. Riley.
        Please proceed. Welcome.

                        STATEMENT OF PAT RILEY,
            ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEMBER, FAMILY FARM ALLIANCE

        Mr. Riley. Thank you, Senator Barrasso, Senator Carper, and
    members of the Committee. I am new to this, so bear with me.
        My name is Pat Riley. I live near Roundup, Montana, which
    is in central Montana, the Missouri Breaks country. I am a
    farmer-rancher and also a consultant throughout the State that
    works with farmers and ranchers to deal with water rights and
    water resource issues.
        I previously served as a manager of the Rivers Adjudication
    in northeast and southeast Montana, which entailed working on
    the Upper Missouri and the Yellowstone River Basin for a number
    of issues.
        Prior to that I managed Montana's Irrigation Development
    Sustainment Program and worked with a lot of Indian tribes, up
    `til 2014, where I moved back into the private area.
        I am here to represent the Family Farm Alliance and bring
    perspective for the Upper Missouri and Yellowstone River
    Basins, where I live and I work. The Alliance has provided
    extensive testimony, written testimony, and I am only going to
    address a couple of different issues. Although I do have an
    interest in many other issues; it is just, with 5 minutes, I
    picked three of those.
        The first section that I wanted to talk about was Section
    1024. This deals with the watercraft inspections on the Upper
    Missouri and the Columbia Basin in regard to the aquatic
    invasive species issue. Just in the last 2 years in Montana we
    have had two Bureau of Rec projects where, in fact, the zebra
    mussels, some sign of the zebra mussels has hit our State, and
    we are in panic mode, and inspections are taking place in
    Montana, and we are actually formulating that. This will
    definitely help us to try to preserve our waters, even though
    the Eurasian milfoil has been in our State for a number of
    years, and we are trying to deal with that.
        Section 3306 and 3403, these are the sections about the
    reservoir sediment problems that we see day to day in our State
    and throughout the United States. Siltation is a chronic
    problem throughout the West. I have looked at reservoirs from
    BIA, any Federal projects to State projects to local projects,
    and many of the reservoirs are 70 to 100 years old.
        There are some of the reservoirs that I work with that are
    50 percent full of silt right now. Well, if you think of that
    from my perspective as a farmer and rancher, this means that
    when I had 20 inches of water to use on my crop, now I have 10.
    I can't raise the crops I need to raise with 10 inches of
    water. So, this is a huge issue, siltation, from the farming
    side. Flood control is also a huge issue.
        The biggest reservoir area is an Army Corps project, the
    Fort Peck Reservoir project. It is 19,200,000 acres feet of
    water. It is the upper of the three big reservoirs on the
    Missouri River. Well, if you assume that say it was 25 percent
    full of silt, which is 1930s vintage, that would be a likely
    scenario. We are talking about 5 million acre-foot that is used
    for flood control and irrigation and those sorts of things.
    That is a huge chunk, and it is only growing each and every
    day. I run into it all the time; we see it out on smaller
    projects where that has dramatically increased. And when you
    have silts of that level, your evaporation goes up because
    water becomes shallower.
        The final section that I want to talk about is the tribal,
    one that is very near and dear to me, Sections 3807 and 3808.
    These are the tribal water right projects. I work solely on
    Indian water right projects in our State. We have seven
    reservations and thousands of acres of irrigation in BIA
    projects. Most of the BIA projects, I have to admit, are in
    woeful state. If I was to compare the Bureau of Rec projects in
    our State, they are probably 30 percent worse than the Bureau
    of Rec projects, who we all know have 100 years of
    infrastructure that has been sitting there and falling apart.
    We need to deal with this. On the tribal projects, there are
    some that I would call almost non-functional.
        I know that was just a brief of the things that I reviewed,
    but I felt like I needed to take as little time as possible,
    and I would like any questions that you would like to provide
    me later on. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Riley follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much, Mr. Riley.
        Mr. Sternberg.

      STATEMENT OF DENNIS STERNBERG, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ARKANSAS
                        RURAL WATER ASSOCIATION

        Mr. Sternberg. Thank you.
        Good morning, Chairman Barrasso, Senator Boozman, and
    members of the Committee. It is an honor to be here, and we are
    grateful that you have included the voice of rural America in
    this hearing.
        Thank you, Senator Boozman, for consistently listening to
    and helping rural Arkansas, including holding the first hearing
    on Senator Wicker and Senator Heitkamp's technical assistance
    bill, which is contained in today's legislation. And thank you,
    as well, for sponsoring the SRF WIN with Senator Booker.
        Rural and small town USA depends on this Committee to
    ensure that the interests of rural communities are contained in
    Federal legislation. The Great Compromise of 1787 that allows
    for proportional representation of States, including very rural
    States, in Federal policy is alive and well in this Committee
    and in your legislation. Thank you for that, Senators Barrasso,
    Carper, Inhofe, and Cardin. Rural America is very appreciative
    for the very helpful and beneficial provisions in your water
    legislation, America's Water Infrastructure Act of 2018, and we
    urge its passage and enactment.
        My name is Dennis Sternberg, and I am the Executive
    Director of Arkansas Rural Water Association, a non-profit
    association of small and rural community water and wastewater
    utilities in Arkansas. But I also am here representing the
    National Rural Water Association, which has over 31,000 member
    community utilities.
        We are very appreciative that your legislation includes
    numerous drinking water and clean water provisions that make
    the America's Water Infrastructure Act a comprehensive water
    legislative package. I would like to focus my comments on the
    important and beneficial provisions under Title 5.
        Section 5004, Technical Assistance. Approximately 80
    percent of the country's 14,500 wastewater utilities serve
    populations fewer than 10,000. As you know, small and rural
    communities have a much more challenging time complying with
    Federal Clean Water Act permits and operating complex
    wastewater systems due to the lack of technical resources in
    small communities. This legislation provides a solution to the
    lack of technical resources in small communities by providing
    technical experts, as we call them, Circuit Riders, in each
    State to be shared by small and rural communities. For these
    Circuit Riders to be effective and helpful, they must be able
    to directly travel to any given community to work specifically
    to solve any of the specific problems.
        Section 5010, the Water Workforce Investment. We welcome
    this new Federal attention and emphasized mission for water
    work force development. Like me, when I first started working,
    not every young person entering the work force necessarily has
    the option to go to college. A college degree is of value, but
    it is not required. A true apprenticeship model would be a
    welcome enterprise for the water worker universe. In any given
    day, water workers may be operating heavy equipment to repair
    broken lines, working with toxic chemicals, welding, conducting
    tests, operating process controls, complying with Federal
    rules, managing construction, and the list goes on.
        Section 5011, Sense of Congress Relating to the State
    Revolving Funds. Thank you for supporting the funding for the
    SRFs. They are essential in funding water infrastructure and
    projects to comply with the Federal rules, especially the small
    and rural communities in our State and the country that have
    more difficulty affording service due to lack of population
    density.
        Section 5012, the GAO Study on WIFIA Projects. We hope the
    GAO will review the WIFIA program considering it does not
    require any economic needs based targeting, credit elsewhere
    means testing, or focus on compliance. Small and rural
    communities support Senator Boozman and Senator Booker's SRF
    WIN Act, which improves WIFIA by authorizing an opportunity for
    States to direct some portion of the WIFIA funding to be used
    by each State's SRFs.
        Section 5006, Water Infrastructure Flexibility. We support
    the legislation for improving the current affordability
    analysis used by EPA to make compliance reasonable on
    ratepayers, especially in economically disadvantaged
    populations. Under the Safe Drinking Water Act, EPA adopted a
    policy that families can afford annual water rates of 2.5
    percent of the median household income, which adversely impacts
    rural communities that have higher percentages of people living
    in poverty and the lower MHI.
        This Committee is very important to rural and small town
    America, and we are grateful for the opportunity to testify
    today for the attention and consideration you have provided in
    crafting this most recent legislation.
        Thank you very much.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Sternberg follows:]
       [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Sternberg.
        Ms. Swallow, thanks so much for being with us today.
    Welcome.

                    STATEMENT OF KRISTINA SWALLOW,
             PRESIDENT, AMERICAN SOCIETY OF CIVIL ENGINEERS

        Ms. Swallow. Thank you. Chairman Barrasso, Ranking Member
    Carper, and members of the Committee; thank you for inviting me
    here today to testify on the importance on a long-term,
    strategic investment in our Nation's water resources.
        I am Kristina Swallow. I am a licensed professional
    engineer, and I am the President of the American Society of
    Civil Engineers, a professional engineering society
    representing over 150,000 members.
        It is wonderful to be back here in Washington, DC, where I
    previously served for 3 years as an AAAS fellow and legislative
    aide to Senator Tom Udall.
        Many of you are familiar with ASCE's Infrastructure Report
    Card that we release every 4 years. ASCE's 2017 Report Card
    gave our Nation's infrastructure a grade of D+ and determined
    that there is an investment gap of $2 trillion over the next 10
    years. Our Failure to Act Economic Study found that our
    Nation's deteriorating infrastructure and growing investment
    deficit hurts our Nation's economy. Failing to invest by 2025
    carries enormous economic costs, to the tune of nearly $4
    trillion in lost GDP and 2.5 million jobs lost in 2025 alone.
    It also costs every single family in our Nation $3,400 a year
    in disposable income.
        WRDA bills are critically important to the health of our
    Nation's water resources, which in turn play a crucial role in
    the Nation's economy, public safety, and the preservation of
    our environmental resources. Our levees, dams, inland
    waterways, and ports protect hundreds of communities, support
    millions of American jobs, and generate trillions of dollars of
    economic activity.
        As you are well aware, many of these infrastructure assets
    have reached or exceeded the end of their design life and need
    to be repaired and modernized. Two programs that ASCE has long
    championed are the National Dam Safety Program and the National
    Levee Safety Program. Both are crucial components of risk
    reduction and protect communities, critical infrastructure, and
    trillions of dollars of property.
        The National Dam Safety Program was reauthorized in WRRDA
    2014 and has helped inventory nearly 90,000 dams across the
    country, assessing their condition and providing training and
    tools to dam safety programs.
        The National Levee Safety Program, enacted in WRRDA 2014,
    has helped to create an inventory of our Nation's levees. We
    now know the location and condition of nearly 30,000 miles of
    levees. However, there is much work to be done to further
    inventory the thousands of miles of levees not yet in the data
    base.
        We are pleased that America's Water Infrastructure Act of
    2018, or WRDA 2018, includes a reauthorization of both
    programs.
        ASCE is also supportive of alternative financing mechanisms
    for water resources projects, including the WIFIA program,
    which can be utilized by the Corps for a variety of water
    resources projects. We are pleased that this bill includes
    reauthorization of WIFIA and we encourage the Corps to continue
    their implementation of the program.
        ASCE championed Section 5014 of WRRDA 2014, authorizing the
    Corps to enter agreements with non-Federal interests to finance
    construction of at least 15 water resources development
    projects. We were pleased that President Trump's infrastructure
    proposal included provisions to remove barriers to
    implementation of this program. We urge the Committee to follow
    in the Administration's lead by authorizing a user fee
    collection and retention under this Corps pilot program.
        Finally, we ask the Committee to include the SRF WIN Act in
    WRDA 2018. This legislation offers an innovative new tool to
    leverage limited Federal resources and stimulate additional
    investment in our Nation's infrastructure, while safeguarding
    against any cuts to the existing State revolving funds and
    WIFIA programs.
        In conclusion, ASCE believes our Nation must prioritize
    investment in our water resources infrastructure systems.
    Strategic, robust, and sustained investments through long-term,
    reliable Federal funding, as well as through the utilization of
    alternative financing mechanisms must be made quickly if we
    hope to close the growing gap and restore America's world class
    infrastructure.
        I thank you for holding this hearing. ASCE looks forward to
    working with you and the members of the Committee to find
    solutions to our Nation's water resources investment needs, and
    I look forward to taking your questions later.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Swallow follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Barrasso. Thank you so much for your testimony.
        Mr. Bullock, welcome back to the Committee. Look forward to
    hearing from you. Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

                  STATEMENT OF HON. JEFFREY BULLOCK,
                 SECRETARY OF STATE, STATE OF DELAWARE

        Mr. Bullock. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, to my Governor, Tom
    Carper, to members of the Committee, for the privilege of
    appearing before you today and offering some brief remarks
    about the America's Water Infrastructure Act of 2018 and the
    importance of this legislation not just to my State and the
    Mid-Atlantic region, but to our Nation as a whole.
        I am Jeff Bullock. I am the Secretary of State of the State
    of Delaware, but today I am here as the Chairman of the Diamond
    State Port Corporation. The Diamond State Corporation is a
    corporate entity of the State of Delaware. It was established
    in 1923, and it owns and operates the Port of Wilmington.
        Our port, like many ports in America, touches the lives of
    millions of Americans every day. The banana you had for
    breakfast this morning came through the Port of Wilmington
    probably Monday or Tuesday of last week, and 3 weeks ago was
    growing on a tree somewhere in Central America. The grapes you
    enjoyed this winter were from Chile; also came through the Port
    of Wilmington. Those little clementines that we love to eat
    around the holidays, came from Morocco, also through our port.
        Now, Senator Carper knows we are in the process of a
    planned expansion at the Port of Wilmington to provide more
    capacity for our existing customers and for future businesses,
    and that is one of the reasons that this bill is so important
    to us as we move forward.
        Just let me say that over the last couple of years I have
    had the opportunity to visit a number of ports both in the
    United States and around the world, and perhaps more
    importantly, to talk to any number of port experts
    internationally, and I can tell you for certain that many of
    our ports, including my own in Wilmington, are falling behind
    and not able to keep pace with our competition.
        Maintaining marine infrastructure such as public ports is
    essential to our Nation's economic future. Delaware and the
    Corps of Engineers have long enjoyed a great relationship for
    as long as I can remember and as long as I have been involved
    in the port, which goes back to the Carper administration,
    almost 25 years now, but the importance of the Corps as we move
    forward with this expansion is even more essential.
        The reasons for that are pretty clear: we are in the midst
    of a rapidly changing global marketplace, and ensuring the
    Corps is running efficiently is more critical now than perhaps
    ever before. Ports are strong partners with the Corps of
    Engineers to ensure that we can meet the trading needs of our
    country and the needs of the flow of commerce and keep that
    moving forward.
        But ports are also under an increasing amount of
    competitive pressure. Shippers are demanding greater efficiency
    and lower costs. Increased velocity, the rate at which our
    goods move through ports and arrive at their final destination,
    is now the measure of our success.
        WRDA is an opportunity to look at process improvements, as
    well as make transformational changes in how our Nation
    provides resources to our seaports. Our regional ports also
    work closely with the American Association of Port Authorities
    and support the recommended changes and core processes that
    will make navigational projects move more efficiently and
    support stronger partnerships.
        The amount of freight that is going to move through U.S.
    ports is going to continue to increase significantly. Our own
    Port of Wilmington has seen growth of 150 percent just in the
    last 8 years. I want to applaud the work of the Chairman and
    the Ranking Member on the provision included in this
    legislation which highlights transparency and accountability in
    cost sharing for water resource projects.
        The foundation to building a project or conducting a
    feasibility study should always be done in good faith, and with
    the provisions set forth in Section 1004, local communities and
    States are now able to see the balance sheets of their
    respective projects. Furthermore, any unused moneys from a
    project that comes in under budget will be credited back to the
    non-Federal sponsor. For States and local communities like
    mine, who continue to work under tight budgets year after year,
    this is a big win.
        Another provision in the bill that we strongly support is
    Section 1012, Extended Community Assistance to Disadvantaged
    Communities. Properly identifying and understanding the
    disadvantaged community greatly improves efforts to engage with
    those community members.
        In closing, let me say the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is
    a valued partner in managing States' waters and beaches through
    navigation, environmental restoration, flood control, and other
    projects. Without this legislation, the partnership that so
    many of us count on around the country as vital to our economic
    growth will be stymied.
        And as for ports, I would remind us all of these things: 23
    million American jobs are supported by U.S. seaports; $6
    billion of goods are handled through seaports each and every
    workday; $312 billion a year in tax revenue is generated by
    port activity; and $4.6 trillion of economic activity is
    related to our seaports annually. Very clearly, our ports are a
    central part of our country's economic future.
        Thank you again for having me today. I look forward to any
    questions you might have.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Bullock follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Barrasso. Thanks so much, Mr. Bullock.
        Mr. Pratt, welcome to the Committee. We look forward to
    hearing from you.

                  STATEMENT OF TONY PRATT, PRESIDENT,
           AMERICAN SHORE AND BEACH PRESERVATION ASSOCIATION

        Mr. Pratt. Good morning. I want to, first of all, start by
    thanking the Chairman and Ranking Member for the leadership in
    bringing this bill forward, as well as the Subcommittee
    leadership in bringing this bill forward. It is very important
    we keep on a biennial track.
        I am the President of the American Shore and Beach
    Preservation Association, an organization founded in 1926 that
    is intended to help care for the Nation's coastlines and
    beaches through science and technology.
        We want to start today by saying how happy we are looking
    at the 5-year budget plan that has been proposed. It is, to me,
    very reflective of the fact that when earmarks, members'
    requests, were eliminated a number of years ago from a user
    standpoint, non-Federal partner user standpoint, many of the
    transparencies that we enjoyed in that process of having open
    discussions was lost. We find ourselves in a world of a mystery
    kind of black box, where the Congress is appropriating funds
    for Corp of Engineers work, we wait by the sidelines in years
    of continuing resolution into the mid-spring to find out what
    work we are going to be seeing coming forward, and we are then,
    at that time, able to come up with our matching funds and the
    Corps has to conduct contractual work in a short period of
    time. The 5-year budget plan opens this process up to a better
    dialogue and a better vision for the future, and we look
    forward to working with the Corps and you all with that.
        I like the fact of the bill's incorporation of the
    Integrated Water Resources Management, which is a modernization
    step that will help improve services delivery to the Nation.
    Looking to align authorities, improve opportunities for
    information sharing, and supporting complementary and
    integrated solutions to water resources challenges among
    partners and stakeholders is a valuable step forward for the
    Corps and its partners and project beneficiaries.
        The required guidance to ensure that the 5-year budget and
    work plans take into consideration a full array of Corp
    business lines to maximize the return on the Federal investment
    is supported. This helps put natural infrastructure investments
    on par with gray infrastructure investments.
        As I have stated in testimony to this Committee previously,
    water and coastal infrastructure, just like manmade
    infrastructure, is about assets that society depends on, and
    most particularly, it is about U.S. jobs. Creating jobs and
    protecting jobs that are blue collar jobs, as well as white
    collar jobs, these are American jobs that cannot be outsourced.
    Service industry at the coast is alive and well and abundantly
    serves the Nation's economy. Investment in natural
    infrastructure through multi-business line investment secures
    that economic return for generations to come.
        Another issue that has been a challenge in the past is how
    well informed the conversation on Federal water resource
    investment has been. Our observation has been that the benefit-
    cost analysis has not well served that purpose; it does not
    consider the return of Federal investment very well at all.
    Whereas, the total cost of projects are accounted for, there
    are many national benefits that are not included. This is a
    disservice to the Nation, we believe.
        We strongly advocate for a more informed BC process that
    informs appropriators on the full return of national benefits
    on the investment made. The 5-year budget plan and the
    integrated water resources approach are a major step forward in
    realizing this goal. We again thank you for your inclusion of
    these and look forward to future discussions with you on
    approving the benefits calculations. We are also very happy to
    see the call for the GAO study that will examine the possible
    BC calculation reforms. This is a wise course of action and
    very much needed.
        By the fact that the EPW Committee remains committed to a
    biennial Water Resources Development Act, the Corps' Civil
    Works budget remains on a forward looking track, and each
    subsequent WRDA provides opportunity to continue to build
    improvements and modernization of the Corps' Civil Works
    mission.
        ASBPA is also appreciative of the inclusion of the Great
    Lakes Coastal Resiliency Study. Combined with the North
    Atlantic Study, the South Atlantic Study, and Gulf Coast
    studies that have gone on, we are perching our Nation very much
    in a better position to have a resilient coastline when future
    storms occur. This is an objective we strongly support.
        Finally, the National Academy's study is endorsed. This
    study will take a broad view of the way in which the Nation's
    water resources development projects are delivered. The NAS
    study should take into consideration how the Administration
    views the Corps' mission and supports it through budget and
    policy.
        We strongly support an overview of how the Corps currently
    operates and if there are improvements that could be made to
    get projects completed as quickly and efficiently as possible,
    should they be identified and pursued. ASBPA offers our
    assistance in any way you may find our expertise and experience
    with coastal water resources protection projects helpful in
    accomplishing your stated goals.
        I want to thank you for the opportunity to talk with you
    today and look forward to any questions you may have.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Pratt follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you so much, Mr. Pratt.
    Thanks to all of you for your testimony.
        We have a diverse group of stakeholders who have already
    provided letters and statements of support for America's Water
    Infrastructure Act of 2018. They include the Family Farm
    Alliance, the U.S. Conference of Mayors, the National League of
    Cities, the National Association of Counties, the American
    Society of Civil Engineers, the National Rural Water
    Association, the American Water Works Association, the
    Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies, the National
    Association of Clean Water Agencies, and the Portland Cement
    Association.
        I ask unanimous consent to submit all of these letters and
    statements in support of the bipartisan legislation for the
    record.
        Without objection, it is done.
        [The referenced information was not received at time of
    print.]
        Senator Barrasso. Let me start with a question.
        Mr. Riley, if I could ask you, please. Developing adequate
    water supply for future uses in States like Wyoming, Montana,
    can be difficult because of the regulatory permitting process.
    We have talked about this. It can also be challenging when the
    Corps disagrees with a State about the purpose and the need of
    proposed water storage or to adhere to unexpected permit
    conditions that come with the permit. These roadblocks often
    happen later in the permitting process, upending projects after
    significant time and resources have already been spent by the
    State.
        Can you explain how future economic growth is impacted in
    States like Wyoming and Montana when adequate water supply
    storage is blocked by cumbersome Federal red tape, and can you
    explain how this bill will help address this important issue?
        Mr. Riley. Senator Barrasso, members of the Committee,
    usually, when these red tape and these processes are blocked,
    we have already spent millions of dollars of State and private
    money to get to that stage. It is kind of like running into a
    roadblock when the Army Corps puts their foot down, because the
    only option for us at that point is to come back to you
    gentlemen, and that becomes very difficult when you live a 2-
    days' flight from Washington, DC.
        In the proposal--sorry about the section, I don't
    remember--about having the Committee or the group set up, it
    gives us a second chance to lay out our facts, because
    oftentimes the perspective of the man making the initial
    decision, this allows us to have people in the room that
    understand what we are talking about. It gives us a second
    chance. Not that we will always get there, but if you kill that
    momentum--I have been in many projects--when you kill it, you
    kill it, and it is hard to get back. I know of some storage
    projects we have done in our State that got killed, and they
    are done.
        Senator Barrasso. Following up, we know that adequate and
    affordable water supply is critical to farmers and ranchers in
    Wyoming, Montana. Our reservoirs across the West to Midwest
    have lost significant water storage capacity due to sediment
    build up. This legislation we are discussing today increases
    water supply in existing reservoirs by developing sediment
    management plans for these reservoirs through the use of
    partnerships between the Corps and the U.S. Bureau of
    Reclamation.
        If we restore these reservoirs' capacity by removing this
    excess sediment, what will be the impact for family farmers
    across the West and Midwest?
        Mr. Riley. Senator Barrasso, members of the Committee, I
    can address that from a personal note. I actually farmed in the
    Milk River Valley, which is a Bureau of Rec project, and our
    upper reservoir is about 65 percent full of silt. That stores
    half of our water supply. So, if I can put that in real terms,
    that $200 hay, which is kind of where we talk, that costs me
    about $300, $350 an acre.
        As a young farmer early in my career, it almost took me out
    of the business. You can't manage on that; you can't bank on
    that. That is what that storage really means, in a nutshell, to
    the farmer. It could be his malt barley crop or his beet crop,
    also.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
        Ms. Swallow, this legislation authorizes several Corps
    projects for construction and encourages expedited completion
    of several projects that are already underway. Each of these
    projects serves an important purpose, such as providing for
    navigation, for flood risk management, for hurricane and storm
    damage, risk reduction, ecosystem restoration. You have seen
    the list.
        Can you further elaborate on why ongoing and future Corps
    projects are so critical when it comes to maintaining America's
    economic viability, including job creation, economic growth,
    and our global competitiveness?
        Ms. Swallow. Thank you for that question, Chairman
    Barrasso. The Corps maintains a network of 25,000 miles of
    inland waterways, 239 locks, and over 13,000 miles of levees.
    All of these assets help move our goods out to other parts of
    the country, as well as our international markets, they protect
    our communities, and they provide access to clean drinking
    water and other benefits to our communities.
        Unfortunately, we have not been funding the Corps as
    needed. These facilities are not just decades old, some of them
    are a century old; and while they were designed with the best
    information we had at the time, they are no longer meeting
    their needs, they are beyond their design life, and they
    weren't designed for the traffic they are seeing today. It is
    critically important for our economy and for our communities
    that we continue to invest in the Corps; and not just invest,
    but increase that investment to really meet their needs.
        Senator Barrasso. Senator Carper.
        Thank you all.
        Senator Carper. Mr. Chairman, I am happy to yield to
    colleagues.
        If any of you have time constraints, I am happy to yield. I
    am not in a hurry to get out.
        Senator Inhofe. I am good. I will wait for you. I don't
    want to miss what you are saying.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Carper. Liar, liar, pants on fire.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Carper. All right; John, do you want to go first?
        Senator Inhofe. Whoever doesn't want to hear.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Barrasso. Well, I have some questions for Mr.
    Sternberg.
        Senator Boozman. Thank you all so much for holding this
    very important hearing.
        Before I get started, I would like to take a second to
    offer a group of support letters for the SRF WIN Act that we
    have been talking about and some of you all have mentioned in
    your testimony. This includes the National Rural Water
    Association, the Council of Infrastructure Financing
    Authorities, the American Society of Engineers, the Associated
    General Contractors of America, the American Council of
    Engineering Companies, the National Association of Clean Water
    Agencies, Ducks Unlimited, the American Public Works
    Association, the Rural Community Assistance Partnership, the
    Water Systems Council, the International Union of Operating
    Engineers, the Vinyl Institute, the Hydraulic Institute,
    California Association of Sanitation Agencies, Orange County
    Water District.
        I would also like to take a second and thank the EPA Office
    of Water, the Council of Infrastructure Financing Authorities,
    American Water Works Association, Water Environment Federation,
    and the Association of Metropolitan Water Agencies for
    providing us technical assistance to ensure that we preserve
    the WIFIA and SRF programs for years to come.
        [The referenced information follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Boozman. Mr. Sternberg, let me ask you. The SRF has
    a great track record of handling SRF funding to address vitally
    important water issues, wastewater projects in the State for
    years. Rural States like Arkansas, though, have limited access
    to funding. Across the country, SRFs have thoroughly vetted
    projects from small, medium, and large communities that are
    waiting to be funded.
        Can you please explain what the additional funding created
    by another tool in the toolbox, like SRF WIN, what would that
    mean for water infrastructure in rural America?
        Mr. Sternberg. Thank you, Senator Boozman. That is a great
    question. Let me just say Arkansas Natural Resources Commission
    is the agency in Arkansas that handles the SRF for the Safe
    Drinking Water Act and the Clean Water Act, and they have done
    an excellent job, but there is still a need. With this bill,
    you know, you have the SRF WIN in it, and that will allow the
    WIFIA program to be much more helpful to some of the rural
    communities such as we have in Arkansas, which is a very rural
    State, and many of your States are rural.
        But not only rural communities. We think it will steer the
    WIFIA to look at the communities with the greatest economic
    need and communities that each State thinks is the priority,
    and giving the State the priority that handles SRF to say this
    project needs to be funded. It also allows for that low
    interest rate to come through with the WIFIA funding. It will
    be an excellent partnership with the SRFs, and it will be
    excellent to the utilities across the State of Arkansas and
    many States across the Nation.
        Senator Boozman. Ms. Swallow, we certainly appreciate your
    leadership and the great job that your organization does in
    constantly pushing us in the right direction and really
    describing the situation that we are in regarding
    infrastructure.
        Can you tell us a little bit about the growing shortfall in
    infrastructure funding in the country?
        Ms. Swallow. We could talk for days about that, Senator
    Boozman. So, when we start talking about the investment gap
    needed for our infrastructure systems, you can look at drinking
    water alone and recognize that we waste billions of gallons of
    water everyday through leaky pipes. That equates to trillions
    of gallons a year. And we don't have a single drop of water to
    waste, really, especially in the western portions of our
    country.
        We have a growing funding gap. Currently, it is estimated,
    in the next 20 years, almost three-quarters of a trillion
    dollars, $750 billion is the funding gap on our water and
    wastewater needs alone. We have to find a way to invest in this
    infrastructure.
        Senator Boozman. So, we are all doing the best we can. We
    are working away, but the current situation is not near as good
    as we would like, so something like an SRF WIN type of
    financing, how would that affect things?
        Ms. Swallow. First, I want to thank you for your
    sponsorship of the SRF WIN Act. It is----
        Senator Boozman. Myself and Senator Booker.
        Ms. Swallow. Yes, thank you, and Senator Booker.
        It is just one more tool in our toolbox that will help our
    local communities fund the infrastructure that they need to
    serve their communities' needs. It is intended to take the best
    parts of the State Revolving Funds and the WIFIA program and
    provide that access to our local communities where the State
    infrastructure financing authorities can implement the program.
    It provides additional flexibility; it doesn't further tax the
    EPA with another program where the State infrastructure
    financing authorities are already administering our State
    Revolving Funds.
        So, it is a great tool. It will leverage the limited
    Federal funding $1 up to $50 in additional funding. It will be
    just one more tool that our local agencies can use.
        Senator Boozman. Good. Thank you very much.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Boozman.
        Senator Fischer.
        Senator Fischer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Ms. Swallow, if I could follow up on some of this. As you
    know, our inland waterways are critically important for moving
    our abundant agricultural products to ports located along our
    coasts. As the only triple landlocked State in the Nation,
    Nebraska and our ag producers rely on efficient river barge
    traffic and a functional inland waterway network to supply our
    overseas customers with our high quality products.
        As you note in your testimony, there is great need for
    investments in maintenance and repair of these inland
    waterways. Also in your testimony you emphasize the benefits of
    WIFIA loans authorized by the Army Corps and the benefits that
    they could supply to this network.
        Can you elaborate on how the WIFIA loans could be applied
    for inland waterway projects?
        Ms. Swallow. WIFIA loans are, again, just one more tool
    that we have; it is an alternative financing mechanism where we
    can leverage the limited Federal investment $1 up to $50 of
    additional private and alternate funding sources.
        When we have insufficient funding, we have to be able to
    use all the tools that we have in our toolbox, and that is just
    another way that we can do it. The WIFIA program has just
    recently been started by the Army Corps, and we are excited to
    hear that, and we are looking forward to their continued
    implementation of it.
        Senator Fischer. Do you believe that private-public
    partnerships are feasible when looking at inland waterways? Do
    you think that there will be private enterprises step forward
    to be able to access that funding?
        Ms. Swallow. As long as there is a way to offset and for
    them to see a revenue source, they are a great way to improve
    our network. As you mentioned, so many of our products go
    through that inland waterway system, so I do see that as a
    solution.
        Senator Fischer. Thank you.
        Mr. Sternberg, I thank you for once again testifying before
    our Committee. Given your career working with wastewater
    infrastructure, I am sure you are familiar with unfunded
    Federal mandates, specifically those communities facing
    expensive Clean Water Act compliance requirements related to
    stormwater and wastewater projects.
        In my home State of Nebraska, the city of Omaha was hit
    with a $2 billion unfunded Federal mandate from the EPA to
    update its combined sewer overflow system. I was pleased to see
    my Water Infrastructure Flexibility Act included as Section
    5006 in the bill before us, and I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for
    that.
        The purpose of this section is to allow communities facing
    expensive stormwater and wastewater infrastructure updates to
    have greater flexibility to achieve compliance under the Clean
    Water Act.
        Mr. Sternberg, can you please discuss your experiences with
    communities that are forced to comply with expensive Federal
    mandates, and will this section of the bill help alleviate some
    of the financial and structural burdens these communities are
    facing?
        Mr. Sternberg. Thank you, Senator. My experience in
    Arkansas, where there are about 700 community water systems,
    and then we have about 350-some wastewater systems--Arkansas,
    as Nebraska, is a rural State. The majority of all systems in
    the Nation, 14,500, serve less than 10,000. So, when you start
    passing regulations from EPA down to comply with the same level
    as a large city such as Omaha, it is harder because you don't
    have the customer base to spread that cost across the board. It
    is very hard financially on the system, the customers of the
    system, but it has to be paid for some way or another.
        That is why a grant-loan ratio. That is why we think, also,
    there needs to be more technical assistance put in for Circuit
    Riders. That is what we do; we go out there and work with these
    small systems and larger systems with our equipment. We do the
    INI studies on their collection system. There is no need in
    building a brand new plant if you can fix the INI. It is kind
    of like Ms. Swallow mentioned, the water loss that you have on
    leaks on water systems. You know, let's identify the problems
    and fix them; don't build another well or another treatment
    plant because you have more leaks. It is the same way on the
    wastewater side. You know, let's be reasonable. Let's look at
    it. That is where the engineers do an excellent job identifying
    the problems on your utility to try to come in compliance. But
    we have always argued that unfunded mandates, EPA states that
    you need to do this, but they don't fund it.
        We have had the same problem with the EPA on our technical
    assistance funding. Back in 2012 it was put out through EPA, no
    more earmarks, so in 2012 they had to go out and go through the
    process of bidding out all the technical assistance. Well,
    there were several different pieces of legislation that was
    introduced to make EPA streamlined and do it with the utilities
    that is deemed the most benefit, whatever nonprofit is most
    beneficial to them. They haven't done that. EPA has not done
    that, and members on this Committee have wrote letters to EPA
    in regard to that, about, you know, you need to go back to this
    rule and do it this way, but they haven't done it, and we have
    letters to back up, letters that Senators sent and EPA
    responded back.
        Senator Fischer. We have seen a huge increase on these
    bills to the people in the city of Omaha, so I am hopeful that
    the flexibility provided in this bill is going to help
    alleviate some of that hardship they are facing.
        Mr. Sternberg. I think it definitely will.
        Senator Fischer. Thank you.
        Mr. Sternberg. Thank you.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Fischer.
        Senator Whitehouse.
        Senator Whitehouse. Thank you, Chairman. Let me open my
    time by thanking you and the Ranking Member for the
    constructive way in which this Committee is proceeding on WRDA
    legislation. We often find ourselves at odds on certain issues,
    but I applaud the way in which the Committee works in
    bipartisan fashion on the water resources, and I want to
    particularly recognize the both of you.
        Ms. Swallow, one of the things that we see is that the
    march of progress and innovation brings new materials to the
    fore, innovative materials, often composite materials. What is
    your read on how well the Army Corps engineering manuals and
    other guidance provide adequate preparation for applicants to
    be able to use those innovative materials in projects? Should
    that be a continuing focus to try to make sure that the
    standards that have been in place for concrete and steel and
    other more traditional materials are updated to include
    innovative and composite materials?
        Ms. Swallow. Senator Whitehouse, that is a fantastic
    question. Indeed, we do agree that we need to provide for all
    agencies to incorporate the use of new materials. We can't
    continue to design projects the way we did 50 years. We can't
    afford to do that, and the projects won't be sustainable, so we
    need to figure out ways to incentivize development of these new
    materials, their use of the materials, and ensure that they do
    get into our projects.
        Senator Whitehouse. And out of date engineering manuals and
    other guidance create a lag that inhibits the implementation of
    projects that include those new materials, correct?
        Ms. Swallow. It is natural that the standards and
    guidelines do have a bit of a lag, but the intention there is
    to ensure that we are protecting public safety and not
    implementing them too soon, so we need to make sure that we
    both incentivize the use of them, but also continue to ensure
    that they are being safely used.
        Senator Whitehouse. Well, I appreciate that.
        In Rhode Island we have a lot of small communities, and I
    see Mr. Bullock here representing another coastal State with
    small communities. I have noted that the Army Corps' Flood and
    Coastal Storm Damage Reduction Account in the fiscal year 2019
    budget is funded at $1.49 billion. Of that $1.49 billion, we
    have found only $40 million marked for coastal projects. Even
    in the Flood and Coastal Storm Damage Reduction Account, the
    ratio of upland and inland projects to coastal projects appears
    to be about 37:1, which does not seem appropriate under
    virtually any circumstances, but particularly not appropriate
    when we look at the type of coastal flooding, coastal storm,
    lousy FEMA mapping, and other challenges that small communities
    face.
        What is your comment on that?
        Mr. Bullock. Senator, I am going to not tell you how to do
    your job, but I am going to yield to my fellow Delawarean to my
    left who is the expert in this.
        Senator Whitehouse. I accept that referral.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Whitehouse. Mr. Pratt.
        Mr. Pratt. And I am now retired from the State of Delaware,
    but 38 years in the business, and that is why my Secretary of
    State is referring over to me.
        From Delaware's standpoint and from the national
    standpoint, we certainly see the problem with that discrepancy
    that small investment made to the coastline. I think to answer
    that, I would point out something I have said to this Committee
    in the past. For point of illustration, how far off we are in
    the investment, and I use the fact that we are depending, in my
    mind, anyway, we are depending too much anymore on
    supplementals to fund coastal restoration work. We are
    responding, and I certainly see a number of Senators----
        Senator Whitehouse. So your recommendation would be that we
    need to make a stronger focus on coastal restoration work right
    into the WRDA program?
        Mr. Pratt. Sixty-five billion dollars was spent for
    Hurricane Sandy supplemental, $65 billion. And of that, let's
    say $20 billion of that was probably very much directly coastal
    related in the affected States. We take that number and we say
    $20 billion over one storm and maybe 25 percent of the coasts
    of the United States. If we had spent that money for 20 years
    over the entire Nation, that is $1 billion investment a year to
    avoid the damages and to avoid the suffering that occurred
    before we had to pay that cost of recovery.
        Senator Whitehouse. In my final seconds, let me make the
    point that Rhode Island has not applied under the WIFIA program
    for some time now. One of the reasons is that the Rhode Island
    infrastructure bank is actually easier to work with; doesn't
    require such a paperwork load up front and that, for smaller
    projects and for smaller communities, the WIFIA project really
    is not all that useful. So, I hope that as we continue to work
    our way forward, we can find ways to make the WIFIA program
    more amenable to smaller projects and smaller communities,
    because a great number of our coastal communities are smaller
    communities; we are not all New York City.
        Thank you.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Whitehouse.
        Senator Gillibrand. So sad for you.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Barrasso. Senator Capito.
        Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Thank all of you for being here.
        And thank you and the Ranking Member for working so well
    together on this.
        This is really a question for anybody who wants to handle
    this on the panel. For many of our constituents, how the Corps
    actually deploys their funds and rehabilitates our waterway
    infrastructure is confusing and ultimately a disappointing
    maze. First you have a study that is authorized by Congress;
    then the Corps has to complete the study, often soliciting
    funds from their local stakeholders; then Congress authorizes
    the study and appropriates funds to the Corps for construction
    or operation and maintenance. Still, sometimes after all of
    this has occurred, nothing really happens, and usually the
    refrain from the Corps is that the project failed to pass
    muster under the OMB's benefit-cost ratio. That standard is
    $2.50 in benefits for every $1.00 in Federal investment, with a
    discount rate of 7 percent for future or long-term benefits.
        Projects are having trouble meeting these threshold, and we
    are left to explain to our constituents that their project, no
    matter how important to the local community, can't proceed,
    despite all of the Federal reviews.
        So, I was wondering, do any of you have experiences that
    you would like to share in which otherwise worthwhile projects
    have been put on indefinite hold because of this benefit-cost
    ratio issue?
        OK, so maybe that is not a problem.
        Yes, sir, Mr. Riley.
        Mr. Riley. Senator Capito, I can only do perspective from
    some of the projects in my neighborhood. When you use that
    standard without looking out way into the future, there is much
    of the projects in our region that would have never been built
    at that time, so, yes, that is a huge one. I can tell you from
    personal experience, when you get the Army Corps of Engineers
    put their foot down on a project you have been working on for
    10 years or longer, maybe decades beyond that, that will crush
    you right there in a local led effort.
        Senator Capito. Right. Well, I think this bill tries to
    help answer that question by letting districts regionalize
    their projects so they become larger.
        Mr. Pratt.
        Mr. Pratt. Just another perspective from the State of
    Delaware. I think there are 19 or 20 federally authorized
    navigation channels in the State, only 3 of which are being
    maintained. It is a different metric for determining how
    waterways are maintained, which ones are actually supported
    through dredging and surveying work. We have had channel
    markers removed within our State because the Coast Guard can't
    verify the port channel is there anymore. It is a different
    metric, but it gets to the same point, that the rationalization
    of what projects we do has to be examined. I think this is why
    the National Academy Study is so important; it should get into
    that way in which the Corps does its business, see how we can
    modernize it, see how we can bring it forward and better serve
    the Nation.
        Senator Capito. Good. All right, thank you.
        Mr. Sternberg, in your testimony you highlighted, in
    Section 5010, which contains the text of the Water Workforce
    Investment bill which Senator Booker and I have worked on. This
    provision establishes an EPA grant program to spur education,
    job training, and apprenticeship for careers.
        You mentioned this in your opening statement, but for a
    rural State like West Virginia, this is a huge challenge. Many
    of our folks that have been maintaining our water systems were
    under the old system and are retiring, and trying to find new
    and younger talent has been an issue for us. Could you speak to
    that, please?
        Mr. Sternberg. Yes. Thank you, Senator. National Rural
    Water actually started working with the Workforce Development
    Department of Labor on apprenticeships for the water industry,
    and this last year we just kicked it off, and each State is
    working through that process, but it is the same problem in our
    State, aging work force. We have an aging infrastructure for
    utilities, but we also have an aging work force as far as
    knowledgeable individuals that have run water and wastewater
    systems for years, and getting new, young blood to come in to
    the industry.
        One of the reasons I still believe is the pay scale is not
    where it should be. It is the most important thing we do every
    day. Everybody has to have good, safe drinking water. Everybody
    has to have a process for disposal of your stuff. I mean, it
    does not make sense to me. But I think with this it ignites and
    starts the process, and with this in the bill I think it is an
    opportunity for every State to start expanding out and going
    into the work force and bringing new people in.
        Senator Capito. Well, I have a small community in West
    Virginia where the person who was charged with keeping the
    water system running and providing the clean drinking water
    also was the person who checked the parking meters, and you
    know, took the notes at the city council meeting.
        Mr. Sternberg. The dog catcher and everything.
        Senator Capito. The dog catcher and everything. And the way
    the requirements that we have now, you can't do that; you have
    to have the professionalization that goes along with this,
    which can be very complicated, so thank you very much.
        Mr. Sternberg. Thank you for the addition in this bill.
        Senator Capito. Thank you.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Capito.
        Senator Gillibrand.
        Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Ranking
    Member, for holding this hearing, and for your bipartisan
    leadership in drafting this bill, the America's Water
    Infrastructure Act of 2018.
        New York, as you know, has a wide range of water resource
    needs. We are a Great Lakes State and a coastal State. We have
    hundreds of dams and levees that are critical to communities
    across the State which must be properly maintained to ensure
    those communities are protected from flooding, and we face the
    threat of aquatic invasive species that, if unchecked, decimate
    fisheries and result in major economic and environmental
    damage.
        I am pleased that this bill includes a number of our very
    important priorities. This bill includes the Long Island Sound
    Restoration Stewardship Act, which reauthorizes and reforms
    Federal programs that are essential to reducing pollution and
    protecting the Long Island Sound Watershed. It also authorizes
    the Great Lakes Coastal Resiliency Study to protect communities
    like those that are experiencing devastating flooding last
    summer along Lake Ontario. I am also grateful that the bill
    will utilize the study for Chautauqua Lake Project to protect
    communities in Westchester from flood risk.
        With that, just a few questions.
        For Anthony Pratt, I appreciate in your testimony you
    mentioned the Great Lake Coastal Resiliency Study, which is a
    priority of mine and something that is so important for
    communities across central and western New York. As you may be
    aware, last summer we experienced record flooding along the
    shorelines of Lake Ontario and the St. Lawrence River,
    resulting in a Federal disaster declaration due to the millions
    of dollars in damage of both property and infrastructure.
        Can you speak a little more about why it is important to
    conduct comprehensive regional resiliency studies like the
    North Atlantic Study conducted after Superstorm Sandy?
        Mr. Pratt. Yes, Senator. Thank you for that question; it is
    one that I mentioned briefly a few minutes ago that we support,
    ASBPA.
        Looking at the Nation as a whole, we have a series of
    studies that are done, North Atlantic Study, South Atlantic
    Study. There are two coastal studies in the Gulf Coast, and now
    the Great Lakes coming onboard, which brings us to a point
    where the Continental United States is going to have fairly
    comprehensive plans, without the West Coast engaged yet, on
    resiliency, and there are a number of forces at work for each
    one of those units or sections that is very unique.
        But developing a strategic plan going forward so we can
    spend the money to mitigate prior to the disaster, save the
    supplemental dollars that are being spent at far to a greater
    rate, as you understand from the State of New York, $65 billion
    spent for recovery from Hurricane Sandy. That was after the
    destruction of property, after the human suffering occurs.
    Let's avoid the human suffering, let's avoid the disruption;
    let's get out in front of it and invest in that infrastructure
    that is going to protect the infrastructure that is behind it,
    and I think the coastal infrastructure is very important in
    that role.
        Senator Gillibrand. Do you see any projects the Corps could
    be looking at to improve the resiliency of coastal and Great
    Lake communities? And a follow on, in your view, what are the
    barriers that hold the Army Corps back from investing more in
    natural infrastructure projects like wetlands restoration, and
    what more should Congress be doing to address those barriers?
        Mr. Pratt. Well, I think this bill addresses that pretty
    well. In looking at the full suite of benefits across business
    lines that accrue from the investment made, looking at green
    infrastructure and nature-based infrastructure. In the Great
    Lakes region there is a lot of bluff erosion because beaches at
    the bottom of the bluffs are eroding. Great Lakes levels
    fluctuate over time because of a difference in weather
    patterns.
        There are a variety of different forces at work there, but
    that said, if we can invest in green infrastructure to avoid
    the damages up front, that is good, and the suite of benefits
    that accrue, by enumerating the solutions that have multiple
    benefits, I think the benefit-cost analysis is the area where
    we are not doing a good job on the benefit side, what comes
    from that investment. There would be many more values achieved
    through the investment of nature-based protection than we are
    counting, and that is an important step forward.
        Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Mr. Pratt.
        Ms. Swallow, addressing the massive backlog of dam and
    levee safety projects is another important priority. We have
    approximately 400 high hazard dams in New York. What are the
    consequences if we fail to take this problem seriously and
    allow aging dams and levees to continue to fall into disrepair,
    and how can the Corps provide better assistance to States and
    localities that are responsible for maintaining this
    infrastructure, but are faced with strained budgets and limited
    funds?
        Ms. Swallow. Senator Gillibrand, that is a great question.
    What are the consequences? The consequences are devastating if
    we fail to maintain our levees and our dams. The challenge with
    that is that we are not even aware of the full spectrum of
    levees that we have. We are underfunding our National Levee
    Safety program. We are only spending $5 million to $10 million
    a year, where it is authorized at $79 million a year. And some
    of those authorized funds actually would go to the repair of
    those levees. So, first we have to identify their locations.
    Once we know their locations and their condition, then we can
    start to repair them.
        In terms of high hazard dams, the number of high hazard
    dams is increasing annually as more and more people continue to
    move into areas that are protected by these dams. Roughly 17
    percent of our 90,000 dams today are high hazard, and should
    that dam fail, it will result in a loss of life, so the
    consequences are devastating.
        Anything the Corps can do to help increase that investment
    in dams and levees, but really, it ultimately comes down to
    ensuring that we are appropriating the funds that are already
    authorized and making sure that we get those funds to the
    projects.
        Senator Gillibrand. Thank you.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much, Senator Gillibrand.
        Senator Inhofe.
        Senator Inhofe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I have three areas, as I listened to the opening statements
    and heard the responses to questions, that I think could use a
    little more elaboration.
        Mr. Sternberg, I wanted to tell you you have a real
    champion of rural water in Senator Boozman. He is one that is
    always on that ball, and we agree with the problems. After all,
    Oklahoma and Arkansas are both rural areas. We are both
    impacted by how we do treat that.
        What I would like to have you do is anything you want to
    add to how this bill is going to be helpful specifically to the
    rural areas, give you the chance now to elaborate on that,
    should you want to.
        Mr. Sternberg. Thank you, Senator Inhofe. We appreciate all
    your work from Oklahoma for rural water. My counterpart, James
    Gammell, talks about you all the time, so thank you for the
    opportunity to add some additional stuff.
        My last comment on this bill would be, again, 14,500
    wastewater systems throughout this Nation in every State
    represent 10,000 population and under. They are the ones that
    rely on rural water technical assistance in the field,
    troubleshooting problems that they have because, again, they
    don't have the expertise as larger systems where they have----
        Senator Inhofe. We are the resources. I know it is not any
    different in Arkansas than it is in Oklahoma, and when this
    hits them, they have no way of responding to it as it might in
    a major metropolitan area.
        Mr. Sternberg. Exactly. So, the technical assistance
    funding for the clean water Circuit Riders is essential. It is
    essential. The Safe Drinking Water Act has the Circuit Rider
    technical assistance provision of $12.7 million. That is the
    issue that I have; EPA is a stumbling block because of how they
    have appropriated that money and put it out.
        Senator Inhofe. OK. That is an excellent statement. I just
    want to make sure we had everything in the record that referred
    to that.
        Mr. Sternberg. I have a letter that the Senators here sent
    to EPA requesting that they----
        Senator Inhofe. I think it would be appropriate to ask
    unanimous consent that that letter be made a part of the record
    at this point.
        Senator Barrasso. Without objection.
        Mr. Sternberg. Thank you.
        [The referenced information was not received at time of
    print.]
        Senator Inhofe. Ms. Swallow, really, 150,000 civil
    engineers? Did I hear you right?
        Ms. Swallow. Yes.
        Senator Inhofe. And you are in charge of all of them?
        Ms. Swallow. I am not so sure I am in charge. I represent
    them.
        Senator Inhofe. Well, in your statement, toward the latter
    part of your statement, you did address the SRF WIN Act, and I
    just want to remind everyone that not only myself, but also
    Chairman Barrasso is with Senator Boozman on this legislation.
        Now, from your very unique position, is there anything you
    have not said concerning that that you would like to get in the
    record? You are the head of the civil engineers. What do you
    think?
        Ms. Swallow. Thank you for the opportunity. We are really
    excited that this bill is being advanced in a bipartisan
    manner. We are excited to hear that you are working on the SRF
    WIN Act. Ultimately, when we talk about our infrastructure,
    anything we can do to increase the investment, that is the
    biggest challenge, is increasing the investment. We are
    woefully underfunding it.
        Senator Inhofe. OK. Well, I appreciate that very much.
        Mr. Riley, you responded to Chairman Barrasso's statement
    when we talked about local participation. You know, there are
    some people who really don't think a good decision is made
    unless it is made in Washington, and there are those of us who
    believe, who have served in the private sector, as well as the
    public sector, at local levels, we don't agree with that.
        In your testimony you say the best decisions on water
    issues happen at the State and local level, and I would agree
    with that. The decisions made in Montana are just not the same
    as they would be made in my State of Oklahoma, in eastern
    Oklahoma versus western Oklahoma. That is why local decisions
    in control are so important.
        Is there anything you would like to expand on the
    advantages of the local participation that you have not yet?
        Mr. Riley. Thank you, Senator Inhofe. I guess the proof is
    in the pudding, in fact, the local effort. That means that we
    have spent our money before we come to see you, and it is our
    idea; and I believe that sells it in itself, that we have come
    to you, we have spent a lot of money. In our State I have
    worked on rural water tribal-State irrigation projects. We are
    coming to you; that means that it has already been originated
    on our side of the ball, looking for help from you.
        Senator Inhofe. That is a great reminder, and we will all
    remember that. Thank you very much.
        And thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Inhofe.
        Senator Carper.
        Senator Carper. Mr. Chairman, I received a number of
    letters of support from various outside shareholders and
    stakeholders. I would like to enter these into the record. They
    include the League of Conservation Voters, National Wildlife
    Federation, Audubon, American Rivers, American Shore and Beach
    Preservation Association, National Association of Realtors, the
    Environmental Defense Fund.
        I would just ask unanimous consent that those letters of
    support be entered into the record.
        Senator Barrasso. Without objection.
        Senator Carper. Thank you.
        [The referenced information was not received at time of
    print.]
        Senator Carper. I just want to say this has been a great
    hearing. I mentioned to the Chairman. On issues, and usually
    water resources issues, we are very good at working together,
    and frankly on other issues as well. Some of our issues that we
    discuss are more contentious, as you might imagine, but this is
    just a great example of where we can, I think, make progress by
    setting aside our differences and focusing on what Mike Enzi,
    the Senator from Wyoming likes to say--and the Chairman has
    mentioned this before--but Mike Enzi likes to say the reason
    why he and Ted Kennedy used to get along so well on issues
    before the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Commission
    when Ted Kennedy was senior Democrat, and Mike Enzi, a very
    conservative Republican, was the Republican leader on the
    Committee, I used to say to Mike Enzi how do you guys get so
    much done, and he once said to me, he said, Ted and I agree on
    about 80 percent of the stuff, and we disagree on about 20
    percent of the stuff. He said, what we do in the Health,
    Education, Labor, and Pension Committee is we focus on the 80
    percent where we agree, and we set aside that 20 percent to
    another day.
        And I think what we are doing today is focusing on the 80
    percent, and you are helping us in this, and we are deeply
    grateful.
        I want to ask the first question, if I could, of Secretary
    Bullock, if I could, with respect to ports and then the Corps'
    budget in that regard. By 2020 I am told that the total volume
    of cargo shipped by water into and out of this country is
    expected to be double that of 2001. Think about that. By 2020
    expect the cargo shipped into our country and out of our
    country to double by 2021.
        As the ships continue to get bigger, we see more congestion
    at the docks, and we see larger ships require deeper navigation
    channels. We are deepening right now the channel that goes from
    the Atlantic Ocean through the Delaware Bay, Delaware River up
    into New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Only a few ports have that
    kind of deep navigational channels.
        How do we ensure that ports can effectively distribute and
    receive goods as ships continue to grow in size? How do we
    ensure that ports can effectively distribute and receive goods
    as ships continue to grow in size?
        Secretary Bullock, in your opinion, how does the America's
    Water Infrastructure Act of 2018 bill before us support our
    ports' needs; not just in Delaware, but beyond, well beyond?
    Thank you.
        Mr. Bullock. I appreciate the question, Senator. So, I
    would start out by sort of reiterating what you said earlier
    about partnerships and figuring out how to work together on the
    80 percent where you can agree, because I think that is the key
    to success here.
        We know that our need for port capacity is going to
    continue to grow, and probably grow, hopefully grow
    significantly over the course of the next 10 or 20 years. As
    has been said here today, the role of the Corps of Engineers in
    all that is just critical.
        I will take the example that we are involved in right now
    as indicative of that. Even before we decided that we were
    going to try to build a new port, and we are trying to build,
    as you know, a new facility not too far from where you and I
    live on the Delaware River, and it is about a $600 million to
    $750 million project to build this new terminal. Even before we
    made the full decision that we were going to go ahead with
    that, we had to start working with the Corps of Engineers to
    determine whether or not the site was going to be suitable for
    that. And even before we bought the piece of property, in fact,
    we had environmental studies underway to determine whether the
    property was suitable for dredging, for example.
        And now that we are a couple years into it, we are already
    1 year into our partnership with the Corps of Engineers in the
    dredging piece of that, which is supposed to be, I think a 2-
    or 3-year process all told, and who knows what happens in
    between.
        So, as has been said several times by this panel in a
    number of different contexts, a well supported, well funded,
    well devised plan by the Corps of Engineers is just absolutely
    critical to us being successful.
        If we can get that port up and running by 2024, 2025, that
    is a pretty good accomplishment, right, to build a new port. It
    is also 6 or 7 years ago, which strikes many people as being a
    long time, but that is how long it takes to do all of this
    right now.
        To the extent that we get a well resourced Corps of
    Engineers, we can minimize that amount of time, at least from
    the regulatory perspective, in getting the approvals that we
    need, so that is critical.
        To the other part of your question, about the ships getting
    larger and the changing nature of the businesses as it relates
    to that, we know that ships coming up the Delaware River are
    only going to be so large, and because of the deepening of the
    channel, we can now handle larger ships. We can't handle the
    largest ships, but it is a sort of spoke and wheel business
    practice on the part of most of our customers, anyway, so that
    is not going to hold us back.
        Making sure that channel deepening is completed, making
    sure that it is then maintained after it is completed, making
    sure that we accommodate things like where we put dredge
    spoils, for example, which is going to be a very big issue for
    us, maybe not in the short term, but certainly is going to be
    in the long term, these are the things that will allow us to
    maintain our commercial development and will make us successful
    in the longer term.
        So, the overall message, I think, from me, and I heard it
    from others, I know we all have our budget constraints, we
    certainly do in the State of Delaware, but this is not a place
    to cheat. This is not a place to cheat the budget. This is a
    place where not only will you facilitate things like what we
    are doing in Delaware, but you will be doing the exact same
    thing around the country; you will grow jobs, you will grow the
    kinds of jobs that we need to be developing in our country
    right now, blue collar jobs that we so desperately need to
    increase, and you are going to promote more economic
    development in our country.
        Senator Carper. Thank you for an excellent and thoughtful
    response.
        Mr. Chairman, I have another question to ask of Tony, but
    let me----
        Senator Barrasso. Please, go right ahead.
        Senator Carper. Are you sure?
        President Pratt, as the President of the American Shore and
    Beach Preservation Association with a long, rich history with
    coastal issues, and as a former non-Federal project manager for
    the State of Delaware, you know the importance of pairing
    natural infrastructure improvements with engineered flood
    control solutions and how they can complement each other. How
    can gray and green infrastructure work together? How can gray
    and green infrastructure work together? In what ways does the
    bill before us actually support that hope, that aspiration?
    Please.
        Mr. Pratt. Thank you. Good question. Gray infrastructure at
    the coastline refers to the kind of practices that were done in
    the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, perhaps, where seawalls were built,
    bulkheads were constructed, breakwaters were constructed and
    became a way of trying to tame the forces of nature that were
    impacting the coasts.
        Over time, we began to look at it from a broader
    perspective. If you stop and think just for a minute what
    attracts so many Americans to the coasts, it is not a wall and
    a sea on the other side of it; it is a beach, it is a dune, it
    is a wetland, and those beaches, dunes, wetlands, the vistas
    that they provide for people, the recreational benefits, but
    also the protection of estuaries, which is vitally important.
    We have seen the collapse of protection in the Delta in
    Louisiana, for instance. The Chandeleur Islands and their
    collapse created devastation of wetlands, losses of wetlands,
    more exposure of New Orleans to coastal storms.
        So, looking at systems that bring back those natural
    features is why we went to the coast; we didn't congregate at
    the coast because it is a solid wall, and then there is sea on
    the other side. Those amenities, those resource values are very
    important to people, so bringing those back into the fold, they
    can perform very well. We think in our minds about the Dutch
    and the way they protect country, which is below sea level. I
    used to think there were probably giant walls everywhere. I
    have seen photographs--I have not been to Holland to examine
    them, but I have seen photographs, and their protection, their
    dikes, as they are called, are dunes and beaches, massive dunes
    and beaches that are providing recreational amenities, natural
    resource amenities, but also do the job of keeping the sea
    back.
        So, combining the two I think is a way forward that
    accomplishes many goals, and I think the National Academy Study
    and the GAO study looking at the benefit-cost analysis should
    pick up on some of those values that come from that investment.
        Senator Carper. Thank you.
        Would you just mention what is going on at the Prime Hook
    National Wildlife Refuge with respect to transforming a
    freshwater marsh into a saltwater marsh in order to sort of
    raise it up and really to save it and preserve it?
        Mr. Pratt. Certainly. The National Wildlife Refuge at Prime
    Hook is one that is a Delaware Bay fronting resource. For a
    number of years, because of mismanagement of the streams and
    creeks that went through that wetland system back in the early
    part of the last century, Phragmites took over, dominated the
    coastline. There was a beach, and there were seas of
    Phragmites, the tall reed that we see all over Delaware.
        To reverse that non-productive land, the Department of
    Interior, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, created impounded
    freshwater wetlands back in the 1960s and 1970s. Those provided
    tremendous benefit to migratory waterfowl for quite a number of
    years, until the beach and dune system broke down and seawater
    got into that system and created a tidal anomaly that didn't
    allow those wetlands to flow out.
        Bottom line is that, through Hurricane Sandy relief, $38
    million was appropriated to the Department of Interior to
    rebuild the beach and dune, and to create a wetland system that
    was based on tides again. Again, entirely valued by benefit-
    cost analysis was strictly on the environmental improvements
    that would come, and the benefit would provide to migratory
    waterfowl, which is the mission of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife
    Service.
        So, the values are there. They are very high values, and
    Department of Interior looked at it closely and said, yes, it
    is very much in our favor to go ahead and make that investment,
    $38 million to restore a complete system to its original
    natural function.
        Senator Carper. Thank you.
        Mr. Chairman, let me go back, but if I have a question I
    would like to ask later on, a very short question of Ms.
    Swallow.
        Senator Barrasso. No, please go on.
        Senator Carper. I was sitting next to Tom Udall in a
    meeting earlier today, and I am sure he would want to convey
    his warmest regards and his thanks for all the help you
    provided when you were a member of his staff.
        Ms. Swallow, do you believe that the Corps' current
    budgetary funding is sufficient to accomplish its mission for
    inland waterways, and how does this bill assist on this front?
        Ms. Swallow. Thank you for the question, Senator Carper. Is
    the budget sufficient? No, it is not. We have infrastructure on
    our inland waterway systems that dates back not just decades,
    but in some cases, as I mentioned earlier, a century, and that
    infrastructure is struggling to meet the needs of our Nation.
        If we don't fully restore our inland waterway system, we
    will see the impact of that product, instead of being shipped
    on the inland waterways, it will hit the rest of our surface
    transportation system and cost us a lot more not just in terms
    of the cost for the producers who are trying to get their
    products to market, but will cost every single American citizen
    as we buy that product, so we need to find a way to further
    improve the investment in our inland waterway network.
        One of the things that we really like about this bill is
    that it enables the Corps to charge and collect fees on their
    facilities that they can then use to leverage the WIFIA
    program. We will not attract private investment unless they
    know that they can see a return on their investment, so that is
    one of the steps that we are excited to see in this bill, is it
    allows the Corps to start collecting and retaining fees for
    operations and maintenance.
        We, of course, like that the bill is reauthorizing WIFIA
    and the dam and levee safety programs as well.
        Senator Carper. Thanks.
        When we say dam safety program, I always think is that with
    the ``n''.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Carper. We will note here for the record today it
    is just d-a-m.
        This has been great. Mr. Chairman, thank you again for
    pulling this all together and for our witnesses that are here
    from Delaware and other places far and wide.
        Again, I just want to say to our staffs, deeply grateful
    for the great work that is being done not in the light of day
    so much, certainly not here under these lights, but very good
    work is being done, and we know we have a lot more that needs
    to be done, so we look forward to that journey. Thanks so much.
        Senator Barrasso. Well, thank you very much, Senator
    Carper. You were kind enough to mention so many of the staff. I
    think Richard's name was left out, so, Richard, we apologize,
    but are grateful for your great work.
        Senator Carper. I would like to say something about
    Richard.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Barrasso. If there are no more questions, members
    may submit follow up questions for the record, so the hearing
    record is going to be open for 2 weeks.
        I want to thank all of the witnesses. Thanks so much for
    your insight, for your time, for your testimony.
        Senator Carper.
        Senator Carper. Just an observation. I mentioned earlier
    that Secretary Bullock was once my chief of staff when I was
    Governor, and later for a while as a United States Senator, and
    he was succeeded as chief of staff by Jonathan Jones, who is
    sitting immediately behind him. And immediately behind Jonathan
    Jones is a fellow who looks very much like Alan Hoffman, who
    used to be chief of staff to Joe Biden as Senator and as Vice
    President. I don't know who the rest of you are.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Barrasso. Would people like to stand and introduce
    themselves? We can work our way through the crowd.
        Senator Carper. This is one heck of a Delaware lineup right
    here. Thank you.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Carper.
        Thanks to each and every one of you who have attended, as
    well as those who have participated by testifying.
        With that, the hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 11:45 a.m. the Committee was adjourned.]
        [Additional material submitted for the record follows:]
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