[Senate Hearing 115-514]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 115-514
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST FOR THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE FOR FISCAL
YEAR 2019
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
APRIL 24, 2018
__________
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COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho RON WYDEN, Oregon
MIKE LEE, Utah BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
JEFF FLAKE, Arizona DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
STEVE DAINES, Montana JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
CORY GARDNER, Colorado MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
ROB PORTMAN, Ohio CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia TINA SMITH, Minnesota
Brian Hughes, Staff Director
Patrick J. McCormick III, Chief Counsel
Lucy Murfitt, Senior Counsel and Public Lands & Natural Resources
Policy Director
Annie Hoefler, Professional Staff Member
Mary Louise Wagner, Democratic Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
Bryan Petit, Democratic Senior Professional Staff Member
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Alaska.... 1
Cantwell, Hon. Maria, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
Washington..................................................... 3
WITNESS
Christiansen, Victoria, Interim Chief, USDA Forest Service....... 25
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Cantwell, Hon. Maria:
Opening Statement............................................ 3
Letter to the Senate Committee on Appropriations,
Subcommittee on Interior, Environment, and Related Agencies
dated March 29, 2018....................................... 5
Christiansen, Victoria:
Opening Statement............................................ 25
Written Testimony............................................ 27
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 57
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
THE PRESIDENT'S BUDGET REQUEST
FOR THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE.
FOR FISCAL YEAR 2019
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TUESDAY, APRIL 24, 2018
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m. in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Lisa
Murkowski, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI,
U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA
The Chairman. Good morning, everyone. The Committee will
come to order.
We are here this morning to consider the President's budget
request for the U.S. Forest Service for FY'19.
Before we begin, I would like to welcome the Interim Chief
of the Forest Service, Vicki Christiansen, back to our
Committee. You were here last fall when we were talking about
the use of new technologies to mitigate wildfire risk, so it is
good to have you back before us again.
We are here to discuss the upcoming fiscal year, but I
think that the best place to start is with a discussion of what
we just did in the FY 2018 Omnibus. That bill included a deal
on wildfire budgeting and forest management. It is no secret
that I was not particularly thrilled with it.
Along with many members of the House and Senate, I had
supported both a budget fix for wildfire suppression and
meaningful management reforms that would allow for more active
forest management. I think that we fell far short of the
management reforms I had hoped for and that I think are needed
to reduce the threat of wildfires.
There were some glimmers of progress, for example, on
vegetation management, but until we do more on this front, we
will fail to fully protect our forests and continue to burn
through a lot of taxpayer dollars each fire season.
On a more positive note, the new wildfire suppression
budgeting framework should end the destructive practice of fire
borrowing and stabilize the operations budget by treating
wildfires more like natural disasters. We have heard this
throughout this Committee for a long time, so I think it is
important that we end that practice.
This is important, because for years the Forest Service has
argued that fire borrowing and the rising cost of wildfire
operations have inhibited its ability to carry out its
multiple-use mission. Whether increasing the timber harvest or
processing permits for recreation access, everything has been
linked to fire costs. Now that we have a fix, I expect the
Forest Service to step up and address management priorities
that have long been neglected.
Throughout this year's budget request, the Forest Service
acknowledges its multiple-use mission and primary
responsibility for maintaining existing lands.
So this morning I would like to lay out my budget
priorities for Alaska. Ms. Christiansen, I travelled to
Southeast Alaska with your predecessor earlier this year, we
had a conversation about that, and we held a roundtable in
Ketchikan. We heard from over 20 leaders who represented local
governments, Alaska Natives, tourism, energy, timber and
environmental groups, and the resounding theme that we heard
over and over again is that more access is needed in the
Tongass. Now in my mind that starts with restoring the roadless
exemption on the Tongass. You have a state petition that asks
you to do just that, and as I have said many times before, the
Roadless Rule just does not make sense in the Tongass which is
a forest made up of 32 island communities.
On this same trip, we also heard about the problems with
our recently amended land plan. Even those who support a rapid
transition from harvesting old growth to young growth
acknowledge that the plan, as written, is not going to result
in a successful transition unless we make some changes.
I think, and we have had this conversation, that there are
some real errors in that plan. It was completed without a
comprehensive inventory of young growth. I hope that you will
implement the direction provided in the explanatory statement
that accompanies the omnibus and seriously look at a plan
amendment or revision.
Now we have other issues in Alaska. Our nation's second
largest national forest, the Chugach, the agency has
effectively placed a moratorium on new permits for outfitters
and guides for years now. One guide, he simply wanted to take
his clients ice fishing but was told that permits were not
being issued and to check back in seven years. That is just
absolutely unacceptable. While the moratorium has now been
lifted, which we appreciate, much of the Chugach is still
closed off to outfitters and guides. We hear a lot of talk
about keeping public lands accessible to the public, but
sometimes in Alaska it is a very different experience from the
public's perspective. We have to make sure that whether it is
our heli-skiers, our cross-country skiers, our fishermen and
women, that they have the access to the forest that is billed
as a recreation forest.
I will note that Secretary Zinke signed two secretarial
orders just this last week on recreation, designed to push
agencies to increase and expand access to recreation. Hopefully
this will cause a sharper focus on what we need to be doing
within our national forests.
Of course, Alaska is not alone, and many who sit on this
Committee face similar issues in their states.
I think the Forest Service has an opportunity here. The
agency has been given more funding, new tools and expanded
authorities. We will be looking to build on those in 2019. But
in the meantime, don't squander the goodwill. Get going to
correct the management failures that have plagued the agency
for years. End fire borrowing and revamp your budget process;
ensure that our forests are productive again; move at the pace
and a scale needed on our overstocked forests to reduce the
risks of catastrophic fires; streamline the permitting so that
the United States can produce minerals that are critical to our
national security; provide access to our rural communities, so
that they can build and sustain thriving economies; and then,
of course, the one issue that I have not mentioned this
morning, we discussed yesterday, but it is a significant one,
you have another major job and that is the internal reforms to
put an end to the sexual harassment and the assault that have
plagued the Forest Service.
I have been horrified, really horrified, to learn about
what has been happening over the course of years and decades.
It is categorically unacceptable, and I know that you share
that view. Improving the culture and guaranteeing a safe
workplace must be one of your highest priorities.
Ms. Christiansen, I know that you are new to this position
and that we are still waiting on an Under Secretary at the
Department, but I do appreciate your commitment to work with
me, work with us, to put the Forest Service back on the right
path.
Thank you for being here this morning. We will look forward
to our exchange.
Senator Cantwell.
STATEMENT OF HON. MARIA CANTWELL,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for
holding this important hearing.
As you mentioned, the Omnibus, I think, represents a
significant step forward but much more needs to be done, and I
welcome Ms. Christiansen's input into many of these issues,
including the one you just mentioned about sexual harassment.
As a previous State Forester for the State of Washington, I
know you know how seriously we take this issue at home, and
hopefully you will help the agency make improvements here over
the long run.
As discussed, the Omnibus was a step forward, but today's
discussion is about the President's budget proposal. I think
the Chair did a good job of running through where we go from
here.
Getting the Wildfire Funding Fix enacted into law is
something that I, Senator Wyden and several members on this
side of the aisle, have fought diligently for, for many, many
years. A tremendous amount of work (both inside and outside of
our agencies) went into this, so our thanks to everybody that
was involved. The Forest Service will no longer have to borrow
funding from programs to get firefighters to the fire line.
The Forest Service will no longer need to transfer money
from land management accounts to pay for funding, and the
Omnibus provided an additional $160 million through 2029 to
back pay the programs that had been cut.
It also reauthorized Secure Rural Schools for two more
years, which I can't tell you how important that is to the
rural communities of the Pacific Northwest. This will ensure
communities are not left without the funding they need while we
create permanent solutions.
The package included language to make it easier for state
agencies, like Washington DNR, to be a good partner with the
Forest Service. It included an expansion of the Good Neighbor
program and authority for utilities managing vegetation near
power lines.
Now, for the first time, the Forest Service can issue
contracts for 20 years to do thinning in fire-prone areas, and
there is a preference for cross-laminated timber in awarding
those contracts. So rural communities in Washington stand to
gain plenty from that new paradigm, hopefully treating fuels in
our most challenging areas of central Washington and the
Northeast corners of our state.
All of this we did while still protecting good public lands
and existing environmental laws. My message to the Forest
Service and to many of you is that we need to continue to
provide the resources that are requested because wildfire is
going to continue to plague us. We have to get this right.
In particular, we want to see wise spending given the large
amounts of money that have just been given; we want to see
significantly more restoration and fire preparedness; and, we
enacted this law because we want to see fewer of our homes lost
to wildfire. We want to make sure that our national forests
become healthier.
We know the weather is drier. We are seeing more fire
starts, we are seeing more homes destroyed, and we want to make
sure that you understand that now is not the time to cut
research.
To get ahead of the wildfire problem we need robust
science. The Forest Service Fire lab in Seattle performs that
kind of research. One of their highest profiled projects, the
Fire and Smoke Model Evaluation experiment, would essentially
combine all existing scientific models for fire behavior,
weather, fuels, air quality, to make it easier and safer to do
controlled burns.
I think at one of our last hearings we had the drought map
that showed where the nation is going to be most affected by
drought. I am pretty sure in the next 30 days the Forest
Service will produce the Fire Risk map for us which will also
show us the most at-risk communities.
Given the devastation of these fires, I think it is so
important that we continue to have that science, if nothing
more than for preparing for the season, but my guess is that it
will also lead us to better strategies on how to fight fires.
Hence, we need to make sure that we have better tools.
The Fire Lab and this particular project was funded by the
Joint Fire Science Program which is considered to be one of the
best research programs in the Federal Government.
I would like to submit for the record, Madam Chair, a
letter that we received last week. I think people who signed
this letter advocating for the program are county
commissioners, fire chiefs, local sheriffs, prescribed fire
councils, and I think every member of the Committee has a
constituent who signed this letter.
The Chairman. It will be included as part of the record.
[The letter advocating for the Fire Lab follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Cantwell. We are talking about $7 million of the
Forest Service's $3 billion budget to operate this innovation
program. So I am asking that we do everything we can to help
protect it, particularly during the wildfire season we are
facing. We need science just as we need our assets.
Some of those assets are airtankers and water scoopers. I
would like to discuss the change in Forest Service policy as it
relates to airtankers and water scoopers. The point of
airtankers is to be able to catch wildfires before they grow
into expensive incidents. I am concerned about a policy that
would leave these airtankers unable to fly after they are
ordered for up to 48 hours. With the number of fire starts, I
understand the Forest Service trying to be economical, but how
does it add up if those fire starts turn into more explosive
fires?
I don't know if I have the numbers right here, but the
Carlton Complex fire destroyed over 100,000 acres in one
afternoon, and that fire was accompanied by many other fire
starts in the area. So basically all the resources ended up
going into one particular part of the Okanagan while other
parts of Pend Oreille County were on fire and could have
certainly used some help and support.
Under exclusive use contracts, an airtanker has to respond
within 15 minutes. To me, that sounded like a good process.
Under the call-when-needed contract, an airtanker would, under
this change, have up to 48 hours to respond. In 48 hours a lot
of damage can be done.
Over the last week almost every airtanker company has
raised concerns about this. I am told the Forest Service is
trying to shift cost for aircraft to be paid for with the new
pot of money created in the Omnibus. The policy shift, I
believe, could be adding up to the taxpayers paying more
dollars. I hope you will look at this and help clarify this
during the questions today and after today's hearing.
I look forward to working with you as the Committee
continues to move forward on fire issues and to make sure that
we have a level playing field.
Again, thank you Madam Chair for this hearing and allowing
us to ask important questions.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cantwell.
Ms. Christiansen, we will now turn to you for whatever
comments you would care to share with the Committee.
As I mentioned, Vicki Christiansen is the Interim Chief for
the U.S. Forest Service at the Department of Agriculture. She
is accompanied by Mr. John Rapp who is the Budget Director at
the U.S. Forest Service. Mr. Rapp, I don't know whether you
plan on providing any testimony or just being here for backup
to Ms. Christiansen?
With that, Ms. Christiansen, you have the floor here. We
would ask that you try to keep your comments to five minutes,
and we will include your full statement as part of the record,
but an opportunity for the questions back and forth, I think,
is what we are here for. We appreciate that, and we appreciate
your leadership here.
STATEMENT OF VICTORIA CHRISTIANSEN, INTERIM CHIEF, USDA FOREST
SERVICE
Ms. Christiansen. Madam Chair, members of the Committee,
thank you for inviting me here to testify on USDA Forest
Service's priorities and the request in the President's 2019
budget.
I look forward to working closely with each one of you in
my new role as Interim Chief.
Before I talk about the budget, I'll share just a bit about
my background. I was named to this position six weeks ago. I
came to the Forest Service in 2010 as Deputy Director of Fire
and Aviation and went on to serve as the Deputy Chief for State
and Private Forestry. For 30 years prior to these assignments,
I helped deliver the mission of the Forest Service through my
work in state government. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest,
and I'm a forester by training. I started as a seasonal
wildland firefighter in Washington State. I had several
positions that emphasized managing state trust lands, wildland
fire protection and landowner assistance with Washington
Department of Natural Resources. I eventually served as State
Forester, as Senator Cantwell mentioned, and then the State
Forester of Arizona. My passion is to connect people with their
natural resources, and the most productive way to do that is
through partnerships and collaboration that are based on mutual
trust. I will lead this agency in that same spirit.
In regards to the budget and our priorities, I will touch
on four topics: fire funding, the 2019 investments in America's
forests, internal reforms, and improving our work environment.
Thank you for solving the fire-funding problem that has
disrupted our work for a decade. In 2020 this solution will
allow us to stabilize our operating environment by interrupting
the rising fire suppression budget by treating catastrophic
wildfires as disasters. We can immediately begin to use the new
tools and expanded authorities in the recent Omnibus to help us
do more work to improve forest conditions and deliver products.
This fix is a clear affirmation for us to put more dollars in
boots on the ground, and we are committed to doing just that.
The President's request for the Forest Service budget
totals nearly $5.2 billion. Sixty-three percent of it is fire-
related as a result of the rising 10-year average.
This budget does reflect hard choices and difficult
tradeoffs. Our primary focus is to improve conditions on
national forests. This funding will go toward preventative
treatments and hazardous fuel removal on more than 3.4 million
acres of national forest. This work will help boost local
economies supporting over 350,000 jobs. We will be able to make
greater progress using tools like the Good Neighbor Authority
and the expansion of the 20-year stewardship contracts to do
more work in a spirit of shared stewardship. We thank the
Congress for investing in the nation's forests and grasslands.
We will make good on that investment.
We also do our part by reforming our internal processes. We
will be more transparent, prudent and accountable for the
taxpayers' dollars. We know we don't have a blank check.
This is especially true for our response to wildfires. We
will work to better contain fire costs, ensuring we make
decisions that give us the best chance at success. We are also
working to reform our overly complex, outdated processes that
delay our work.
Lastly, we are changing our culture to create a safe and
respectful work environment so employees can effectively
deliver our mission. Recently we have faced hard truths about
allegations of workplace harassment and retaliation, and these
are not acceptable.
The Forest Service has been combating these problems for
years, but the recent news reports made it painfully clear,
policies prohibiting such behavior are not enough. We will
match the urgency of this situation with focused actions and
sustained energy. We know it won't happen overnight, but I have
committed to our employees and to the American people that we
will not rest until the USDA Forest Service is a safe and
resilient workplace for everyone.
Thank you for your support of America's forests. We will
ensure these investments yield positive results.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Christiansen follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Christiansen. I appreciate not
only your commitment to see true reforms as they relate to the
workplace, and know that we will hold you accountable to that.
I am going to want to know where you are with the progress
following some benchmarks here. It is one thing to come before
the Committee and say we are going to do this. We need to
ensure that it is happening internally, that the men and women
who work hard and serve our agency, that they feel safe and
they feel that they are in an environment that, obviously, has
respect for them and that men and women respect one another.
So know this is something that doesn't factor in there in
terms of these policy initiatives, Tongass or what you are
going to do with airtankers, but that is something this
Committee is going to be following up with you on a somewhat
regular basis to know and understand where we are.
I also appreciate your comments about accountability for
the funding and the recognition that you have new authorities.
You have new flexibility. You are getting what a lot of
agencies would like to have which is a little more free reign
here. That does not mean that it is not without accountability.
It does not mean, you have used the words, it is not a blank
check. I appreciate that you have raised it and you have stated
it that way, but know that that too will be an area of ongoing
inquiry for us here in the Committee.
In my first round let me ask just a couple more Alaska-
specific, Tongass-specific questions. These are things that, of
course, do not come as a surprise to you.
Let me first address the Roadless Rule and access. As I
mentioned in my opening and as we discussed yesterday amongst
all those who came together for a public meeting when we were
in Ketchikan, whether you are an air taxi operator, the
electric utility, the school superintendent, or the guy who has
the small sawmill, everybody is desperate for more access to
the Tongass. And the state has submitted its petition on the
Roadless Rule.
The question for you this morning is what are you doing to
help facilitate and to respond to that petition that the state
has submitted and, really broader, what is the Forest Service
doing to facilitate increased access to the Tongass?
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator.
We're well aware of the needs to address Southeast Alaska's
needs and economy and access to the Tongass. We are working
very closely with the State of Alaska to look at all of the
options to address the roadless issues. A response is being
submitted in the matter of a day from Secretary Purdue back to
the State of Alaska. We want to look for success in how we can
assure Southeast Alaska citizens have the needs met, as you
identified, and we will support the state in numerous ways on
those various options.
The Chairman. I will repeat again what we have discussed,
the entire Southeast economy is locked because of the Roadless
Rule.
The Tongass comprises 95 percent of southeastern Alaska.
Whether it is your ability to be able to provide for clean,
renewable power through additional hydro, building transmission
lines, new activity in mining, or recreational permits, it is
about access.
When we think about the struggling economy, when we think
about the out migration in this area, when you think about the
high unemployment in this area. The urgency focused in this
specific area is very, very keen and I need to know that your
commitment and that of the Secretary is to work with the State
of Alaska as we seek solutions.
Let me move quickly here to the Tongass, the 2016 Tongass
Land Management Plan. Again, we have been working with Forest
Service staff as well as the Tongass collaborative members, and
it is very clear that there have been errors that were
identified in the 2016 plan. One involves a standard that
restricts harvest on moderate vulnerability karst areas, and
the other overestimates the timber supply that is expected to
be available from both native corporation and state lands.
I know that you are aware of both of these errors. The
question to you this morning is how, recognizing that we have
to address this, how we will be able to ensure that in dealing
with the timber sale planning ability to meet the market
demand, how we will comply with the Tongass Timber Reform Act,
given the errors that we are dealing with?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, you're absolutely right.
I'm well aware of the errors and, as you said, the
collaborative has acknowledged those errors. So we are working
now to put together the most effective method that we can get
those fixes in an amendment while we look at other options for
the, potentially adjusting the transition period when we get
the----
The Chairman. Given the new inventory.
Ms. Christiansen. ----the inventory is completed at the end
of this summer.
We want to be the most expeditious and efficient in getting
those fixes corrected. And I'd be glad to, certainly, keep you
posted on that progress.
The Chairman. Good.
Well, we will be working with you as you get all that
information.
Let me go to Senator Cantwell.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Christiansen, the science program. Do you think that we
are seeing dramatic shifts in how fire is behaving?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator Cantwell, what I can tell you is
we now don't refer to a fire season, we refer to the fire year.
Certainly from the national level, we need to be ready 12
months a year. So yes, we are seeing shifts and our scientists
are documenting the change in our vegetation and, therefore,
the associated behavior on the landscape as it results to many
stressors, fire, insects and disease and others being just a
couple of those stressors.
Our scientific capability is very essential for us to be
able to look out ahead and know what we're facing. And then on
the back end of these catastrophic events, how we can best
recover the landscape and the communities.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
On this issue of airtankers being ready versus the 48-hour
proposal, how does that save us money because I look at this
and I think it might be from an upfront look, it is valued to
have a cheaper contract, but if they are not ready for 48 hours
to serve us when we have an emergency, how is that saving us
money?
I think the Colville had something like $1 billion worth of
timber that burned up in one of our two bad fire seasons. So we
are talking about a lot of catastrophic damage that can be done
and these assets seem to have been utilized in helping slow
down the many, many, many more fire starts that we are seeing
when an area is in that target zone which is what we saw for us
for two years. This year, I don't know that we are going to be
in that target zone again, but other people will be.
How do you equate savings if, in fact, more land burns up
because we don't have the immediate resource?
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you for your questions and your
concern.
There's just two things I'd like to clarify. Airtankers are
a very, very important tool, in the right place, to help retard
the immediate advancement of fires, but they do not put the
fires out without effective ground resources. In regards to the
15 minutes (the exclusive-use contracting) and the 48 hours
(the call-when-needed contracting), here's how our scientists
are really helpful. We have great predictive services, but
certainly as the different fire year evolves we have more
precise information about the uptick in fire danger. So we will
certainly activate those call-when-needed airtankers as we see
less availability of our existing resources and more fire
danger. So it's on us that we activate that surge capacity,
those additional resources. And then, once they're activated,
on a call-when-needed basis. They also would have an immediate
response effect.
So, our scientists----
Senator Cantwell. Are you saying, for example, once that
fire map is produced then you would be calling these guys every
couple of days saying you are activated. Is that what would
happen?
Ms. Christiansen. Well, it's not necessarily dependent just
on a static fire map. It would be the weather patterns, how
much in demand we have resources across the nation in other
places, what our needs are.
So, there's hourly updates to the national needs that are
evaluated in our fire center in Boise. We'll project out 2
days, 5 days, 10 days, 2 weeks, 3 weeks and evaluate what
resources are needed based on those projections.
Senator Cantwell. But are you saying that, for example, the
Okanagan was targeted again. You would say that a big storm was
coming through, you would activate those assets? You would call
them and say, you are on call for this region?
Ms. Christiansen. If we didn't have other available
exclusive-use aircraft, they were all being used and we saw
they were going to be overused in those weeks to come,
absolutely, we would.
Senator Cantwell. So, my time is expired, Madam Chair, but
I will look forward to discussing this more with you.
Ms. Christiansen. Sure.
Senator Cantwell. Thank you.
The Chairman. Senator Gardner.
Senator Gardner. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to
the witnesses for being here today.
The last 20 years have been pretty rough on areas of
Colorado forest. We have had millions of acres of national,
state, and private forests infested by bark beetles and other
diseases. Some people believe we have over a billion dead trees
in the State of Colorado alone.
We were lucky in 2017, one of the worst fire seasons we
have seen in Colorado was not as bad as it was in other places
because of the wet winter in Colorado. But 2018 is setting up
to be a much different picture for Colorado's forests than 2017
was in terms of fire. In fact, we have already had an early
season fire on the front range that burned 43,000 acres.
Based on the management reforms that we passed in the
Omnibus as well as the fire borrowing fix, which will hopefully
free up what were previously at risk of diversion resources,
what is the Forest Service doing right now in states like
Colorado to prepare for what could be a difficult 2018? And
then I want to follow up on this call-when-needed contract
issue.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator Gardner.
We are, as a person from the Pacific Northwest says, not
letting any moss grow under our feet and adding to our tool box
these new additional authorities from the Omnibus.
As I think you're aware, we're making some really good
progress with the Good Neighbor Authority with the added
additions of being able to conduct the important work of
maintaining and doing some reconstruction of needed roads. Our
state partners are going to be far more effective in helping us
get more work done on the ground.
We have 127 Good Neighbor agreements across the U.S. in 33
states. It's really effective. And this road addition, to be
able to maintain and reconstruct roads, is essential. So we can
put that to work immediately.
I'm working with our regional foresters to assess where we
can really activate this 20-year stewardship agreement,
especially in places with high fire risk and danger and where
we don't have any real good infrastructure to process that
woody biomass or that timber. The 20-year will give the private
sector the opportunity to really invest because they will have
a known supply. So we're targeting where we can use that new
authority.
We are 50 percent ahead in our timber that we have brought
to market than we were this time last year. We are really
putting a laser sharp focus on doing these preventative
treatments and getting more product to the ground.
Senator Gardner. If I could jump in real quick and just to
follow up. Will you be seeking any additional forest health or
fuel management reforms this year----
Ms. Christiansen. We'd be glad to work----
Senator Gardner. ----that you would like to see Congress
authorize?
Ms. Christiansen. We'd be glad to work with Congress if
there is anything that will help us get more sustainable work
done on the ground. We'd look forward to working with you.
Senator Gardner. Okay, very good.
This issue of the call-when-needed contracts, I mean, it
is, I think, pretty obvious when you have a call-when-needed
contract, if you are calling somebody two to five days out or
utilizing an exclusive contract versus a call-when-needed
contract, the costs vary dramatically.
Last year, I believe, you had 20 exclusive-use, large
airtanker contracts in place; you had three MAFF units, the
Modular Air Fire Fighter units, and you had two large
airtankers from Canada. In addition to those 20, you ended up
with the three MAFFs, the two large airtankers from Canada, and
this year you have 13 exclusive-use contracts in place for what
looks to be a very difficult year in the Colorado River Basin,
Colorado, and other states.
There has been a reduction by about 65 percent in the term,
in the numbers of contracts you are utilizing. It is going to
add significant costs, I would think, if you are calling up
people as you go into the summer. What is the rationale for
that again?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, we really look hard and do our
analysis on the right balance between these exclusive use which
is for an extended period of time and then the call-when-
needed. We take this very seriously, and we will evaluate each
year and adjust the balance of these contracts.
These next generation aircraft are more expensive than the
legacy aircraft we had operated for the last two decades, so we
have to be fiscally prudent and responsible in finding that
right balance.
We are confident that we have the aircraft we need when we
need it through the combination of the exclusive use, the call-
when-needed, the military MAFFs and then when we can call our
partners down from Alaska and Canada.
Senator Gardner. If I could, with no time left.
Do you think you are providing industry with enough
certainty, private industry, with enough certainty to replace
some of the contracts in the past that were coming out of the
Forest Service in terms of the airtankers that have been used
since 2014, authorized by the Defense Authorization Act?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator Gardner, we are doing everything
we can to be a good partner with the industry and exercise our
fiscal responsibility.
Senator Gardner. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you.
The Chairman. Senator Wyden.
Senator Wyden. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Madam Chair and Senator Cantwell, I am still trying to get
my arms around the fact that this is the first time in seven
years when I have not walked into this hearing room and said,
we all, on this Committee, led by you two, and I see Senator
Daines, Senator Gardner, Senator Heinrich, all of our
colleagues, said we have got to fix this commonsense-defying
practice known as fire borrowing. To be able to come in here
and say we have gotten it done and our job now is to build on
that accomplishment is in and of itself a remarkable event. We
have folks at home who said, well Ron's just going to come and
talk to us about this, sort of like, it is the longest running
battle since the Trojan War. It will just go on and on. But we
now have gotten it done. And colleagues, we are ready to go on
and talk about how we are going to get back in the business of
preventing forest fires, how we are going to promote forest
health, how we are going to strengthen rural economies while we
protect our treasures. I think that is a day and a moment well
worth taking note of.
I particularly want to thank your leadership, Madam Chair,
and Senator Cantwell's leadership because there are a lot of
folks in the West who never thought that this day was going to
come.
Now that we have liberated the Forest Service with respect
to funding and you all can get back to prevention, how does the
Forest Service position itself and will you be able to position
yourself to have more certainty with respect to prevention so
we can get more done in hazardous fuels reduction and thinning?
Ms. Christiansen, we appreciate your professionalism. Those
of us who have served on this Committee for a while have seen
it in action. Tell us whether this does provide you the
certainty and the ability now to accomplish things in hazardous
fuels reduction and thinning that you could not do before.
Ms. Christiansen. Senator Wyden, thank you very much.
I'd like to say it's liberation with accountability, and
that's what we have to show. And yes, this frees us up to get
more work done in the targeted places where we can reduce the
most risk, the highest risk, looking at the critical values
that are at-risk. Of course, it's communities, it's watersheds,
it's important timber values. We are using our important
science to identify those priorities.
With the new authorities you've immediately given us, as
I've already stated, it will help us accelerate what we believe
we've already laid some pretty good foundational pieces, Good
Neighbor Authority, 20-year stewardship, these fire
resiliencies, the categorical exclusions for fire resilience
projects, working in a collaborative fashion. We are going to
build on the collaboration that we have already established
around this country and go further with shared stewardship.
Senator Wyden. Let me close and build on a comment that the
Chair, Senator Murkowski, made with respect to benchmarks,
because when you enact a law that is just the beginning. I
think a lot of the, sort of, theorizing about lawmaking is you
write a law and then you move on. Well, once you pass the law
that is just the beginning. Then, per your notion of
accountability, you have to have a game plan from that point
on.
I want to build on what the Chair just talked about with
respect to benchmarks and see if we can get a game plan, at
least for my state and perhaps my colleagues in the West would
like it as well. I think we need a game plan from you. A
specific game plan in order to get at the hazardous fuels
backlog in Oregon and around the West.
As you noted, the fire season just goes on and on. We have
fires sometimes in Oregon in the winter, and people say, hey, I
thought these things came along in July and August.
Could you, for our state and certainly I think it is
appealing throughout the West because it is going to be a tough
fire season, could you get to us within say, the next six
weeks, send it to the Chair and the Ranking Minority Member, we
would all look at it, an actual game plan for attacking the
hazardous fuels backlog in the West?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, we'd be happy to work with you
on that. We are setting ourselves up. We call it scenarial
planning, so we can look at where we can get this hazardous
fuels and sustain these rural economies and look at the
critical watershed values.
We're prepared to go to the State Foresters and the
governors and have a conversation so that we can have some
state-based specifics about how we manage the landscapes
collectively. We're very happy and look forward to working with
you on getting that.
Senator Wyden. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Wyden. I appreciate your
ask here because I do think that, again, this level of
accountability is important, and I appreciate that you have
volunteered its liberation with accountability.
But I do think having an opportunity to know where you are,
where the agency is, in this process, working with the states
in the collaborative process and sharing that with us will be
important. We will work together on this, again, so that we can
have more follow on.
I am going to excuse myself for a few minutes and go to an
Appropriations hearing. I have asked Senator Barrasso to take
the gavel, but we will turn now to Senator Daines.
Senator Daines. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Christiansen, welcome. Thank you for coming here today,
and congratulations on your interim appointment as Chief of the
Forest Service.
This is first time the Forest Service Chief, albeit Acting,
has appeared before us since the recent PBS News Hour
Investigation revealed a history of problems at the Forest
Service related to harassment, sexual misconduct, and
retaliation of the agency, including at least two incidents in
Montana. Reports of these abuses are horrific, and I hope for
an update today on what the Forest Service is doing to address
this issue.
We have also since made some progress in the recent funding
bill to enact a wildfire funding fix, as Senator Wyden just
pointed out, and some, albeit limited, management reforms, but
I am not sure we have quite liberated the Forest Service at
this point based on what we passed.
I will argue that we have won a small battle in, I think, a
longer-term war that we face before maybe we have ultimate
liberation of the Forest Service to get on with the business of
doing what you do best. I think a lot more needs to be done to
restore health to our national forests.
I want to explore this idea of arbitration. In my state,
especially, litigation from a handful of fringe groups, who are
usually not part of the collaborative process, they are sitting
on the sidelines waiting until the collaborative process
finally gets to an end and then they come in and they litigate.
They delay some great forest restoration projects, and they are
really harming our local economies.
I was up in Lincoln County a little over a week ago. It is
just devastating what is going on in terms of the sickness of
our forests, what we have and then we have a fire we can't even
get in and do commonsense salvage work. That is why I think we
need to take a look at arbitration as part of the solution.
A question is does the Forest Service support an
arbitration pilot, a pilot authority like the one proposed in a
bill I have called the Protect Collaboration for Healthier
Forests Act, to ensure swifter resolution of litigation and
therefore, faster implementation of these projects?
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator Daines.
It is so that one out of every ten projects in the State of
Montana are litigated, and in the spirit of learning and moving
forward, we'd be happy to work with you on a pilot project
evaluating arbitration.
Senator Daines. Thank you.
Recent legislation that was passed here in Congress
reversed that Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals' Cottonwood
decision. For some forest plans, I have to tell you, I was
disappointed in that the very bottom of the ninth inning that
legislation we had was bipartisan, co-sponsorship, frankly was
deluded at the very end because the requirements for the Forest
Service to consult with the Fish and Wildlife Service remains
when, ``new information reveals that agency actions may affect
species or habitat.'' This requirement creates more red tape
and slows down management.
The question is do you support my efforts, the efforts, to
remove or modify the ``new information consultation
requirement?''
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, we do have similar
concerns, and we'd be glad to work with you on that.
Senator Daines. Thank you.
I want to move into this issue of the sexual harassment in
the Forest Service.
Can the Forest Service provide my office with an update
regarding this 30-day action plan that outlines initial steps
the agency is taking to build a safe working environment?
Ms. Christiansen. Absolutely. We'll come up any time and
keep you updated on how serious we are taking this and what
improvements that we are absolutely committed to make.
Senator Daines. Thank you, I appreciate it. Thanks for your
leadership in this area as well.
Lastly, I applaud the agency's recent rulemaking to revise
its NEPA procedures and share the goal of increasing the
efficiency of environmental analysis. I am told your agency
spends $365 million every year on complying with NEPA and other
federal laws. This excessive red tape is unnecessary and,
frankly, crippling to a more effective forest management.
Could you discuss how creating NEPA process efficiencies
whether through your rulemaking or through additional
provisions in law or both could help the Forest Service get
more work done on the ground?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator Daines. We have a nationwide
effort underway, as you have mentioned, to increase both the
quantity and quality of our environmental assessments and our
accomplishments.
We are doing it through several factors, learning and
innovating how we can streamline cleanup, some old outdated
processes through regulations, through training, through quite
frankly, checking our culture and our practices and many
others, many other opportunities.
We have benchmarked ourselves. We are, we will see a 10
percent efficiency in 2018, a 20 percent--another 10 percent
efficiency in 2019. And by 2020, 20 percent. So, we will have
reduced that by at least 40 percent by the year 2020.
Senator Daines. Great.
I am out of time, but it is refreshing to see leadership
that quantifies a goal and holds itself accountable----
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
Senator Daines. ----for the results. Thank you.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Daines.
Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Welcome, it is great to see you here.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
Senator Cortez Masto. I look forward to working with you.
Let me start with an issue that is of concern to many of us
in Nevada, and that is the opening of oil and gas drilling in
our Ruby Mountains. I know you are relatively new but I have a
few questions and, if you cannot answer them, I would love some
follow-up on it.
I am concerned about the prospect of opening 54,000 acres
of U.S. Forest land in Nevada's Ruby Mountains for oil and gas
leasing. The Ruby Mountains are located in Elko County within
the Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest and are known for their
rugged terrain and mule deer, bighorn sheep, and greater sage-
grouse habitat. Likewise, I am also concerned that expansive
oil and gas drilling will threaten this pristine and sensitive
area which welcomes thousands of annual visitors to utilize its
public spaces for hunting, fishing, and outdoor recreation. The
comment period closed yesterday, and I know that you have
already heard from hundreds of local constituents, if not more.
So the first question I have is, does the Forest Service
believe the Ruby Mountains are suitable for oil and gas
leasing?
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator Cortez Masto.
We certainly take our responsibilities of multiple-use
management very seriously and for public engagement and for
really hearing from the public about the process.
I am aware of this issue. I know that we will be working
with the BLM. They will make the final decision, but we have
more to review. We will be doing an environmental review, and I
can assure you through that environmental review process we
will be including the public.
Senator Cortez Masto. And so, a couple of things. How long
is the environmental review process? How long will that take?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, I don't have that specific
timeline.
Senator Cortez Masto. Okay.
Ms. Christiansen. I'd be glad to get back to you.
Senator Cortez Masto. Can you ensure that numerous
individuals, stakeholders, and businesses will have their
voices counted during this review process?
Ms. Christiansen. Absolutely.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I appreciate that.
The Forest Service's budget eliminates the Legacy Roads and
Trails line item, and counties in Nevada will not have the
funds to make these repairs if this is zeroed out. Why has the
program been zeroed out and how can you address the needs of
local communities from this funding?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, this budget request, as I said
in my opening statement, really does have some tough choices
and tradeoffs. We do understand the importance of these roads
and trails to local communities, and we'd be glad to work with
you through the process on this budget.
Senator Cortez Masto. So, can I ask? Do you have enough
resources and staff to manage the upkeep of these trails or are
you going to be relying more on local resources which, quite
frankly, are not enough?
Ms. Christiansen. No, we will have to prioritize and we
will not have enough resources for all 178 million miles of
trails that we have on the National Forest System.
Senator Cortez Masto. I think that is all of our concern. I
would like to work with you as well.
Ms. Christiansen. Certainly.
Senator Cortez Masto. And then let me jump back to Senator
Wyden's comments and what I have heard.
As you well know, Nevada is just as concerned about the
fire services, fire suppression, and management. We have had
wildfires in Nevada that continue to cause damage. That is,
unfortunately, the norm now.
And as you well know, one of the MAFF systems is in Reno
with our Air National Guard, the 152nd Airlift Wing.
You stated in your comments that 3.4 million acres of
Forest Service land is subject to the removal of hazardous
fuels and stand treatments. Is that correct?
Ms. Christiansen. What I stated is that is our goal for
accomplishment. We will affect 3.4--we will treat 3.4 million
acres in all of our activities in this 2019 Fiscal Year.
Senator Cortez Masto. Have you identified those 3.4 million
acres, where they are located geographically?
Ms. Christiansen. We certainly have hazard maps and where
we need to keep the supply for local infrastructure and mills,
and our units do work planning two and three years out. So, we
certainly have our prioritized list, yes.
Senator Cortez Masto. And geographically are they located
in the Western states, that 3.4 million acres? I guess my
concern is I would like to see, like the Senator and everyone
else, specifics.
If you are talking about 3.4 million acres, you have
obviously identified where those acres are going to be located
across the country. If 80 percent of the land that you manage
is in the Western states, that is where the fire services, I am
assuming that is where that 3.4 million is going to be
located--in the Western states, where the fires are occurring.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, it is spread out through
all of our units, and we would be glad to get back to you. Of
course, the majority of the lands are in the West, so that
would be the majority of activity. But we can get back to you
with more specifics.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
I know my time is running out. Thank you very much. I look
forward to working with you.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Capito.
Senator Capito. Thank you.
Thank you very much for being here with us and we
appreciate in West Virginia, Senator Manchin is here, we enjoy
our national forest, that is for sure.
I have noticed that we are hearing a recurring theme from
our constituents that there is a lack of consistency in the
application of the law, the agency regulations, and policy
guidance, considering different areas of the country. We hear
issues, for instance, the same issues we hear about the
National Park Service, Fish and Wildlife, Bureau of Land
Management and EPA's regional offices, which I know none of
those you are over. But the Forest Service, I think, faces
similar challenges. National forests apply federal statutes and
agency regulations very differently from one jurisdiction to
the other.
Secretary Zinke has proposed a regional realignment for the
agencies within the Department of the Interior. The Secretary
has talked about staying in a common watershed would bring like
decisions to like decisions. I realize that you are within
USDA. Are you monitoring this effort that is going on with the
other, sort of, realignments and do you have any perspectives
on that in terms of the Forest Service?
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator Capito.
I think we are within USDA.
Senator Capito. Right.
Ms. Christiansen. We are very much a part of USDA.
Senator Capito. Right.
Ms. Christiansen. And the relationship that we have,
particularly with the Department of the Interior, is absolutely
very important and a commitment that we have ongoing
coordination.
I meet once a month with the leadership of my counterparts
at the Bureau of Land Management, and I have an expectation
that our regional foresters are doing the same. We have a long
history of learning together and in doing community engagement
together along with how we respond to wildland fire.
Now, I know and this is what I tell my team all the time,
we need to work out those differences and those
inconsistencies----
Senator Capito. Right.
Ms. Christiansen. ----behind the scenes and not let our
public feel that impact and the different effects on
communities.
Senator Capito. I think that is what we are hearing. I
bring it up because in West Virginia I have heard, we have
heard, from constituents who are frustrated by the constraints
on sustainable timber harvesting in the Monongahela (Mon)
Forest or you can go a little bit north of us in the
Appalachia, same sort of----
Ms. Christiansen. Yup.
Senator Capito. ----very similar forestry makeup.
In Pennsylvania, the Allegheny National Forest has a better
balance and is outperforming the Mon Forest in timber sales and
harvest despite being just half the size.
So when you say you are encouraging more of that, is that
the kind of thing where these two, the one in Pennsylvania and
the Mon Forest, would be coordinating? How can that occur more
readily in the Allegheny National Forest and not the Mon
Forest? Because this is starting to accumulate. We are hearing
this time and time again.
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, I really understand, Senator.
The Monongahela is really stepping up. Now they, each of
these forests, have a forest land management plan.
Senator Capito. Right.
Ms. Christiansen. That was with significant input from the
local community and the local resources.
Senator Capito. Right.
Ms. Christiansen. So we both are responsive to the local
needs but looking at the overall alignment of how we get our
collective work done. So, in a specific case, the Monongahela
is increasing their timber output significantly. They will more
than double by the year 2020.
I just met with Clyde Thompson, our Forest Supervisor, and
his team and they are really trying to make sure that that
increased activity as well as recreational activity has access
to local, the local contractors. Some of these local
contractors, as you know, don't have access to broadband
internet and that we are being conscious that we are not just
advertising these opportunities through the internet and other
ways. I'm really proud of the way the team there is stepping up
and trying to really listen and work with the local community.
Senator Capito. Well, I appreciate that. That is certainly
welcome, obviously, job creator and economic benefits from
where you live.
But now that you have brought up broadband, I am
remembering in the back of my mind that we have a bill, I
believe, that works with the Forest Service to be able to run
broadband availability more readily through Forest Service and
national forests. Do you have any insight into that?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, I know it's a priority, but I
don't have, I'm not completely briefed on those details, but
I'd be glad to get back to you.
Senator Capito. I can honestly tell you, if you are worried
about going to a town hall meeting and you are saying you are
going to run a high-speed internet line through the national
forest for the objective to get it to some of the more remote
homeowners, I do not think you will have much pushback.
Ms. Christiansen. Good.
Senator Capito. So I would encourage that.
Certainly, in the West it has to have a huge impact, but
even in a state like ours, we have low connectivity but we
really need to use every part of our land to be able to get
that connectivity for economic, agriculture and, now,
timbering.
Thank you.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
The Chairman [presiding]. Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
Ms. Christiansen, it is already an active fire season in
New Mexico, and I should start by just saying a special thank
you to all the men and women who are working to keep our
communities safe and especially the teams that recently
responded to manage the Blue Water and Diener Canyon fires,
outside of Grants in my old backyard. What is the fire season
outlook for the Southwest this year?
Ms. Christiansen. I'm sorry.
Senator Heinrich. What is the fire season outlook for the
Southwest as a whole this year?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, fire season outlook is significant
for the Southwest, as you know. The fire year starts in the
South and the Southwest with the extended drought and the
weather patterns we don't see the monsoons coming in soon. So,
we have added some additional resources to be able to be fully
prepared for the response in the Southwest.
Senator Heinrich. You have heard a lot about fixing the
fire borrowing problem, but that does not kick in this year. Do
you expect the funding for the fire program provided in the
FY'18 spending bill will cover this year's costs or do you
expect to have to borrow for other programs before the year
ends?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, you're absolutely right.
Senator Heinrich. Sort of this transition year before the
'19 spending kicks in, so.
Ms. Christiansen. Absolutely.
For '18 we really appreciate the additional $500 million
that was added to the suppression account. That puts us at $1.6
billion. Our scientists' projections are $1.9 million, the
average likelihood for this season. So there is a likelihood we
will have to borrow.
Senator Heinrich. The Collaborative Forest Landscape
Restoration Program provides critical funds to, really across
the nation, support landscape-scale, collaboratively developed
forest restoration projects.
Now we have a couple of those active in New Mexico on the
Jemez Mountains and in the Zuni Mountains where, I just
mentioned, a couple of fires are occurring. Both projects are
helping to reduce the risk of catastrophic wildfire. They are
restoring forests that need it, they are providing good paying
jobs in communities that need that economic opportunity and yet
the budget eliminates all funding for these projects. Why is
the Forest Service gutting a program that is not only so
important for rural jobs and forest health but is actually
working?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, we are very pleased with
the outcomes that the Collaborative Forest Landscape
Restoration Program has afforded us. It's been great learning.
It's brought the real foundation of true collaboration and
shared stewardship in these communities.
This was a, quite frankly, was seen as a duplicative
effort, and we will not be abandoning those projects
wholeheartedly. They will be funded from all the other funds,
the hazardous fuels, the vegetation funds. They will compete
with all the rest of the important work that we do have.
Senator Heinrich. As you know, if you lose one of these
small operations, even if there is a 6-month delay because you
are trying to move from one account to another account, you can
lose the entire capacity to be able to do that work in those
areas. Do you have a plan in place to make sure that that does
not happen?
Ms. Christiansen. We certainly agree and, as I said, we
will make sure to not abandon the important foundational pieces
we've laid out, and we'd be glad to work with you as the
appropriation process plays forward.
Senator Heinrich. The other place that there is absolutely
no funding is in the Forest Legacy Program which is incredibly
important for privately-owned forest lands and placing
conservation easements on those lands.
In New Mexico we have a project called the Brazos Cliff
project, ``cliffs,'' plural, which would protect six miles of
the Rio Brazos, more than four miles of tributary creeks,
riparian and wetland habitat which I can, probably do not need
to tell you, is not common in New Mexico. The property provides
abundant water to the Rio Chama which in turn waters farms
downstream and cities in the Rio Grande Valley. Why on Earth
would we zero out the Forest Legacy program?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator Heinrich, when I was State
Forester of Arizona we had the first Forest Legacy project on a
very valuable desert riparian area. I know how unique and
important those are. So I really do hear you. These are
important landscapes. We like to be able to help leverage these
important values. This budget request is a request of very
tough choices and tradeoffs and focusing on the national
forest.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
Senator Barrasso.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman.
Ms. Christiansen, I am glad to hear today of a couple
questions. You really have a wealth of knowledge to bring to
this position, not only about how the Forest Service has
historically approached forest management but also about what
Western states need in order to effectively manage forest
resources. So I am grateful that you are here.
Wyoming's forests present a wide variety of management
challenges, as you know. The Shoshone National Forest is in
Region Two. It abuts the Bridger-Teton National Forest in
Region Four. The Shoshone has experienced massive die offs
following mountain pine beetles, spruce beetle, white bark pine
activity while the Bighorn remains relatively untouched. The
Thunder Basin National Grasslands has a complex system of
multiple uses and experiences its own challenges when trying to
address resource damage from prairie dogs. For these reasons
and more I am really glad to hear you say that you understand
the need to focus the budget on stewardship of natural
resources, including delivery of forest products and services.
I would like to echo what the Chairman said earlier about
the forestry provisions in the Omnibus. They fell far short of
my expectations, but there is reason for hope. The agency must
use these funds effectively to make a real difference to
prevent future fire borrowing and must be accountable for these
actions to the Committee and to our forest communities, and I
believe you will be.
With your background I know you understand the need to work
cohesively across jurisdictional boundaries. Boundaries that
are, that really have no respect, are not respected by fire, by
invasive species, by wildlife. They are just, kind of, lines
drawn.
In your testimony, the written testimony, you appropriately
recognize the need to work more efficiently within the
parameters of the smaller budget request. This means the agency
must have good working relationships with states, counties, and
tribes when determining the best course of action at the onset
of fire.
I want to echo what Senator Capito said about coordinated
efforts. She mentioned that earlier.
And then this whole concept also applies, in my opinion, to
interagency activities. So Wyoming is nearly unique. I know my
friend, Senator Risch from Idaho, he knows exactly what I am
talking about because Idaho, just like Wyoming, split into two
Forest Service regions. Although they share a boundary, the
Shoshone in Region Two, the Bridger-Teton in Region Four, there
have been many cases where the regions have applied agency
policy or guidelines inconsistently on two adjacent properties.
Understanding the need to be flexible to address the local
resource needs, I would just ask how you are working to promote
consistently, in addition to what you said to Senator Capito,
across regions, to prevent future problems?
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
I really agree with you and I have to say I was a partner
with the Forest Service for 30 years, so I have literally been
on both sides and I do understand.
You know, one immediate way that and these reforms we're
undertaking some of our major bodies of work, I call it spring
cleaning. We are really looking at the processes that we need
to get us the results we need and the outcomes we need for both
quality and quantity, whether it's our efforts on modernizing
forest practices or it's the environmental assessment in
decision-making or it's improving our special uses. This
provides us a way to get a standardization. And so, we're
spring cleaning. We clean out different things in our different
closets, if you will.
So I think we're going to uncover more of these
inconsistencies across our boundary, and it's my expectation to
work with our leaders and hold them accountable that we have
more alignment.
Senator Barrasso. Great. Well, I appreciate that answer.
In Wyoming, like in Arizona, grazing is an important tool
for our national forests. Not only does the grazing program
provide for important hazardous fuels reduction and invasive
species control, permittees, I believe, make significant
investments in improvements to their allotments which benefit
the agency and the land resource overall.
One of the challenges, especially in Western Wyoming, is
finding alternative allotments when fire or other situations
arise. Unoccupied allotments, but if the NEPA is not completed,
the allotments remain unavailable.
In the proposed budget both the grazing program and the
land management planning program would see decreases for the
2018 level.
Can you talk a little bit about how you anticipate the
grazing program could remain basically operable and how the
agency can ensure important NEPA analysis is up to date?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, I'll be quite frank. We do have
concerns about being able to keep up with all of the needs of
grazing. But we will, I will assure you we will prioritize and
with our efficiencies gained in our NEPA environmental analysis
and decision-making, that we can anticipate the needs,
particularly if fire runs through an area and that we have some
alternative allotments available. It will not be easy, but
we're going to stay focused and we're going to stay
prioritized.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
Senator Manchin.
Senator Manchin. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Hello, Ms. Christiansen.
Ms. Christiansen. Hi.
Senator Manchin. How are you? Congratulations.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
Senator Manchin. The increasing market share of the natural
gas in our electricity mix has translated into great need for
expanding energy infrastructure in the United States,
particularly our pipelines, and they are under, as you can see,
under concern.
Natural gas pipelines are the safest and most efficient way
to transport natural gas to the market. I know there are a lot
of concerns--where we hear from a lot of folks on both sides of
the pipeline issues, and I understand the people that have
concerns about pipelines coming through their property. But the
fact of the matter is we are sitting on a wealth of natural gas
resources in West Virginia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania with all the
fracking that has brought us so much energy, and we can't get
it to the customers in the Northeast. In fact, just a few
months ago, in January, a tanker carrying liquified natural gas
from Russia's Arctic arrived in Boston. It seems to me that it
is not too responsible nor in concert with landowners and the
conservation of public lands. These pipelines are helping
secure our nation's energy security. I would much rather be
selling gas to Boston than have Russia bring it in.
As we continue to see the onsite demonstrations against
pipelines, I want to be sure that when it comes to pipelines
across land that you all manage there is a good balance to
ensure the safety and the environment and the progress that is
needed.
Have you all developed or considered developing guidelines
or guidances for local land managers facing pipeline protest?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator Manchin, yes, we will----
Senator Manchin. Maybe I can help you a little bit on this.
I have been told that basically if the pipelines are done
and done properly, and a lot are in very forested areas. We
live in the third most forested state here in the nation. You
can do that and create habitat for the wildlife by clearing,
but what's more if you plant foods to sustain the wildlife, it
is much better. And right now, we don't have cleared spaces for
that, so pipeline installation has to be done under some type
of management plan. And you all would be best to do that.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, there's been thorough planning and
environmental reviews for pipelines crossing, you know,
crossing multiple ownerships.
Senator Manchin. Sure.
Ms. Christiansen. But certainly, on the national forests.
We tried to be very thorough and balanced in our decision-
making on authorizing the crossing of those pipelines.
Senator Manchin. Are you sharing that with the private
sector so they are using best practices that you all have
adopted?
Ms. Christiansen. Absolutely.
Senator Manchin. If it is good for the United States forest
management, then it should be something that, basically, the
private sector should be able to benefit from.
Ms. Christiansen. Absolutely, Senator.
Senator Manchin. Okay.
The other thing I have is the Forest Service previously
worked with West Virginia's Division of Forestry to help
achieve the state goals for enhanced forest health and habitat
conservation under the Good Neighbor Authority authorized in a
2014 Farm bill. Specifically, the Gypsy Moth Working Group, the
Hemlock Conservation Group and the Invasive Species Working
Group are working with the Monongahela National Forest as well
as other programs addressing weed and pest management, the Fire
Learning Network and High-Elevation Restoration. West Virginia
has benefited from these successful federal/state efforts such
as the Forest Stewardship program and the Forest Health
Management programs which aim to protect forest health in
states especially on our private forest areas. We have a lot of
that in West Virginia, as you know.
I am concerned that the budget may reverse some of the
progress our forests have made. You all have a pretty
substantial budget cut. Do you believe that under the Fiscal
Year 2019 proposed budget, the Forest Service will have the
bandwidth to be able to continue these Good Neighbor practices?
How much of a debt is this going to take you into?
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah.
Senator Manchin. I think your cut, I was looking at your
cuts, were pretty substantial here, seven percent, $341
million.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, they are substantial, Senator.
I do want to acknowledge the benefit and the high value of
leveraging working across boundaries with our state forestry
agencies and in achieving successful outcomes for the whole
landscape because even on private lands there are public
benefits that flow from private lands.
Senator Manchin. Have you been able to push back on the
Administration and say, you can't cut me this deep? I can't do
my job.
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, we have prioritized what we can
do within these constrained----
Senator Manchin. There are a lot of us that will have
gotten----
Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
So our priority is on the national forest, but I look
forward to working with you about----
Senator Manchin. Sure.
Ms. Christiansen. ----additional priorities this Committee
has.
Senator Manchin. Thank you so much, I appreciate you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Manchin.
Senator Hoeven.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Thanks to our witnesses for being here. We appreciate it,
and I look forward to working with you.
My first question relates to grazing. Have you been out to
our grasslands in North Dakota? National grasslands?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, sir, I have.
Senator Hoeven. Good.
Ms. Christiansen. Once.
Senator Hoeven. Well, then you are invited to come back
again.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
Senator Hoeven. You will love meeting with our ranchers.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
Senator Hoeven. And we have great meetings. They like to
see you and talk to you and give you great input. There is
nothing like being there with them, not only seeing the
grasslands, but hearing from them. And believe me, they show up
and they are great. They are very courteous, and they give you
great input.
Ms. Christiansen. Great.
Senator Hoeven. But they really tell you what is going on,
on the ground, so it is valuable. But we have a number of
grazing associations out there, and we have had a longstanding
partnership with the Forest Service.
We are concerned the budget that was submitted proposes to
cut the grazing management fee for 2019. Will you continue to
uphold the partnership that we have between our grazing
associations and the Forest Service and our ranchers?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, absolutely. Our
relationship with the grazing association is essential for the
success of the Forest Service and for the grazers.
I know we're working on a standard permit that will
hopefully have a couple really good outcomes, be more efficient
on how we can get more done and provide more certainty and
assurance for the grazing associations.
Senator Hoeven. Yes, and I would really encourage you to
come out and meet with the grazing associations and ranchers
that want to come in. We will set up a nice roundtable, give
you real good input as part of that process.
Ms. Christiansen. I'd really appreciate that.
Senator Hoeven. People find it very valuable.
We have section lines, of course, in our state and a
section line law that keeps those open to public access.
Longstanding because we are an agrarian state, you know, and it
has just been something that is always there. It goes back to
our constitution. We need some help on that because there is
concern out there now with some of those section lines being
closed down and restricting access. So I would ask, are you
willing to work with us on that on our section line law and
make sure that we continue to have public access?
Ms. Christiansen. Absolutely, Senator.
I am aware that no grazing permittees or ranchers have not
been allowed motorized access to all of their allotments.
Senator Hoeven. Well, we truly have multiple use.
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah.
Senator Hoeven. I mean, we have not only farming and
ranching, obviously ranching, on the grasslands, but we also
have oil and gas and energy development, but we have both
traditional and renewable energy. We are now the second largest
oil-producing state behind only Texas. There is a lot of
activity out there. There is a lot of energy development,
renewable energy as well, and hunting and fishing and sportsmen
and all those kinds of things.
Ms. Christiansen. Sure.
Senator Hoeven. So it really is multiple use, but we need
to have that access.
Again, that is another thing that you coming out to see
would be helpful and we do have an active effort now on the
section lines that we need your help.
Ms. Christiansen. Good, I'd be glad to.
Senator Hoeven. That is wonderful. Thank you very much.
Wildfires are another area that require coordination. Of
course, in our case it is grasslands rather than forests, but
we really need coordination any time there is a controlled burn
or anything like that. Again, can you, kind of, tell me how you
approach the issue of working with the landowners on that issue
of wildfires and controlled burns and so forth?
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, it's really important to me.
Again, I was previously 30 years on the state side of the
boundary that whatever the jurisdiction that we work well
before a fire, whether it's a prescribed fire or a wildfire, to
know what our strategies, tactics and priorities and that we
keep each agency well informed, inclusive of the committees--of
the communities. And then, during the fire we have far more
expectations of each other and coordination. And then,
certainly, after fire, we can't forget the restoration and the
needs of the communities, the watersheds that we need to work
collectively across boundaries on.
Senator Hoeven. Yes, that consultation on the front end is
really important, again, for those producers who are on the
ground. They know what is going on in terms of management and
not having an unintended consequence or outcome.
Ms. Christiansen. You bet.
Senator Hoeven. That front end coordination is really
important.
Thank you so much.
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hoeven.
Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Madam Chair.
As we go through the testimony of so many of our programs
and departments, it is very clear that the President's Fiscal
Year '18 budget as well as Fiscal Year '19 budget really
reflects a lower priority, much, much lower priorities for all
domestic programs as opposed to the Department of Defense
(DoD), which I have no problem in understanding that DoD
requires funding. But to sit here, hearing after hearing, to be
told that you all have to make very tough choices on the
domestic side, it just reflects, in my view, the misplaced
priorities of this Administration because the domestic spending
is just as much a part of national security as the DoD side.
Having said that, Ms. Christiansen, as you may know the
Governor of Hawaii has recently made disaster declarations for
both the County of Kauai and the City and County of Honolulu
following rain events that have resulted in severe flooding and
landslides to the point where people were without food and
water.
If Secretary Purdue were to make a disaster declaration for
our impacted counties, what resources would the Forest Service
be able to provide? Hawaii does not have national forest land,
so does the Forest Service have the authority to provide
resources to our state and local forests? And if not, what
authorities would be required to do so?
Ms. Christiansen. Thank you, Senator Hirono.
We certainly understand the needs and the resiliency of an
island community such as Hawaii. We have numerous resources at
the Forest Service to assist and support communities.
Our scientific knowledge on watershed resiliency, community
resiliency under threat of wildfire, insects and disease is
significant. As you know, we have the Institute for Pacific
Island Forestry in Hawaii and the Hawaii experimental forest
that is working on several of these issues proactively.
And then, on the recovery side, for the actual support
during an event it would need to be a Presidential declaration.
Senator Hirono. That I understand.
Ms. Christiansen. And then, our expertise around incident
management should/could certainly be evoked.
Senator Hirono. I like the fact that there is an Institute
of Pacific Island Forestry so that you can engage in some
proactive kinds of research. Is that program going to be cut in
the Fiscal Year '19 budget, Presidential budget?
Ms. Christiansen. The '19 proposed budget does have some
cuts to our greater research and development. So we will
prioritize where those cuts are, but I can assure you we will
not pull out of Hawaii.
Senator Hirono. Well, it is a matter of degree. So thank
you.
You have been asked by some of my other colleagues about
your response to the Inspector General's interim draft report
regarding Forest Service initiatives to address workplace
misconduct issued this past February. And you have said today,
that you would be happy to get back to us as to how you are
doing, but are there any specific steps that have already been
taken to address the misconduct issue at the Forest Service?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, Senator, there's many steps. I'll
give you the high level.
First of all, we have been putting many things in place for
the last, in earnest, over the last two and a half years. We've
put a harassment call center so to take away any perception of
retaliation. We want folks to report, and we put on additional
resources to follow up on those investigations.
We've put--we've issued a very comprehensive update of the
anti-harassment policy. In addition, what we've done of late is
to add to that in what we are calling an action plan, ``Stand
Up for Each Other.'' This--one of the things out of the OIG
report is there's a perception between agency investigators
that follow up on harassment and contract investigators, that
there's a perception potentially of bias.
Senator Hirono. My time is running out.
You have put in place certain things in hopes that will
result in more people coming forward because the IG report
indicates that a very large percentage of your people have
experienced harassment.
I would be interested to know what kind of metrics you will
put in place to decide or to determine whether these steps are
working? With the last second, regarding the state and private
forestry budget which is being cut by almost 50 percent, states
like Hawaii, for example, get about $5 million from this
program and the money for this program comes from other funds
like the Forest Legacy Program which is being zeroed out. And
you said that you have to make some tough decisions and that
you will, through that Forest Legacy Program, concentrate on
national forests, of which Hawaii has none.
I just want to point out to you that if you are going to be
focusing on national forests, it leaves Hawaii, as well as ten
other states that have no national forests, kind of, out in the
cold. I would want to work with you as to how to ameliorate
those kinds of dramatic cuts to these programs.
Ms. Christiansen. I understand your concern, and I'd be
happy to work with you through the process.
Senator Hirono. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hirono.
Let me ask a few more questions here, if I may.
Speaking to recreation and some of the concerns that I
raised earlier about the permitting issues in both the Tongass
and the Chugach.
As you recognized, we were able to include $2 million in
additional funding for the recreation, the heritage and
wilderness line item. There is also an additional $1.5 million
in land ownership and access management to address the
permitting, specifically.
So we have worked on the funding side. It is good, but now
we need to, kind of, break this loose. The effective moratorium
that I referenced earlier in the Chugach has been lifted, but
we still have a real issue with regards to access for
recreational activities in the Chugach.
Seward and Cordova, both of them would like to expand their
tourism season to include some winter activities because right
now they are very limited, but the opportunity to do heli-
skiing would be a great opportunity for, again, some of these
smaller operators. The current leadership does not want to
consider any new heli-ski permits until the land management
revision plan is completed which is still a few years away.
That is kind of tough for these small operators to be told,
well, you know, wait until we get this plan complete.
I guess the question to you is why is the Forest Service
seemingly dragging its feet when it comes to permitting for our
outfitters and guides in the Chugach given that, again, we have
put in place some resources to provide for additional
permitting? What I need, Ms. Christiansen, is your commitment
to initiate a fair permitting process there in the Chugach and
in the Tongass for our recreational permits.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, I really do understand, Senator, and
you have my commitment.
It is true that our process for permitting was cumbersome
and outdated, and we have put some real focused efforts on
improving our special use permits.
We have 77,000 special use permits across the system with a
demand for many more. That doesn't excuse us from not being
responsive to the public and to the needs of the local economy.
I can assure you we have caught up on the backlog and thank you
for your help on the Chugach, in particular, and they have
really been an early adopter of trying out these new processes.
It is also true that we need to have our zoning, if you
will, of the forest land, the forest management plan. And the
Chugach is soon to release their draft, a forest management
plan.
So, we see those two coming together very soon, but I will
work with my leaders in the field to ensure that we are as
responsive as we can be and we keep pressing on these
improvements to be responsive.
The Chairman. Well, I appreciate your commitment.
You know, the heli-skiing operations that we are talking
about in the Chugach, again, but also the two small operators
down in Southeast, down in the Tongass area.
As you know, we have significant tourist visitorship. We
saw over a million tourists last summer. We expect to see more
this summer. At the same time that we are seeing a rise in
tourism, we are seeing a reduction in the number of permits
that are being issued to our air taxi operators--the number of
permitted landings that they can do in the Misty Fjords and for
bear viewing at Trader Cove. What is happening is we are seeing
a reduction in the number of permits that are issued and more
of the tourism operators are being pushed into the same areas.
So what happens is you have congestion.
Just think about this scenario. The cruise ship comes in at
eight o'clock, nine o'clock, in the morning. They have six
hours, eight hours in port, let's say. So you have these air
taxi operators, these small float planes that have a very,
very, very narrow window of time within which to take their
passengers, these tourists, for this extraordinary opportunity
and do it safely because we have to have it done safely. What
we are seeing is more and more are pushed to the same area
which, again, when you are a small float plane flying around
and not every day is a perfect sunshine day, we do not want to
see congestion that could result in an accident.
I need your folks to take a very, very critical look at
both the Tongass and the Chugach to evaluate additional areas
that can be made available for our tourism operators and see if
more landings, more user days, can be permitted.
My first round of questioning to you was directed on how we
are going to be able to revitalize, and I even hesitate to use
that word, but to breathe some life into a struggling timber
economy in Southeast.
I have those that will oppose me at every turn if I even
suggest harvesting one tree on the Tongass and they always say,
go to the tourism. That is your industry. That is your
industry.
Well, the industry is still within the Tongass National
Forest and you all, as an agency, still control what everybody
does there. So whether it is cutting a tree or allowing us to
have a flight-seeing opportunity in some extraordinary areas,
we are still coming to you, hat in hand, saying allow us to
have this economy, allow us to have some kind of an economy.
I need you to work with us on the timber management side in
a way that, again, allows for a small timber harvest. And when
I say small, I recognize that we are the largest national
forest in the country and we cannot even get what some would
describe as an infinitesimal amount of harvest out of the
Tongass right now. And then when we go on the other side to
look at recreation, again, we have limitations that most would
say just does not make sense. So I am asking for your help with
that.
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, as you know, I'm getting up to
speed and I'm learning a lot, thanks to your help, about the
issues in Alaska.
I do know and feel the needs of Southeast Alaska, in
particular, and you have my commitment that we will look at the
balance of all multiple uses and that there's many sectors,
both the economy and the culture and the way of life in Alaska,
particularly Southeast and that the national forests there do
have a great impact and opportunity. And I want to make it an
opportunity where we can.
The Chairman. Well, thank you.
And you mention the culture. Many, many in Southeast are
native people--Tlingit, Tsimshian, Haida, other Alaska natives
who may have served in Vietnam at the same time that other
Alaska natives around the state were able to make selections
under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA). They
were unable to submit applications since they were serving our
country when ANCSA was enacted and we have been trying for
years, for decades now, to finally see an equitable
distribution to those Vietnam veterans. Obviously, a critically
important issue for them.
Another measure that we have been working, as it relates to
our native people, directs the Forest Service to work with
Department of the Interior to study a potential land exchange
there in the Chugach to allow Chugach Alaska Corporation to
exchange their lands that were contaminated from the Exxon
Valdez oil spill.
These are just two of the issues that are very, very
important to Alaska natives, whether down in the Tongass area
or up in the Chugach. I would like your commitment to work with
me on these issues and others that are part of our ANCSA
Improvement Act.
Ms. Christiansen. Senator, you have my commitment,
absolutely.
The Chairman. Good, good, thank you for that.
My last question for you, and this is very parochial here,
but this also relates to some land in, down in Southeast.
Forest Service has been working on acquiring lands at Cube Cove
on Admiralty Island from Shee Atika Corporation there near
Sitka and then we have some split estate ownership issues.
Funding was included in the budget deal to acquire the next
few tracts so the land acquisition is almost complete. This has
been one of these torturous, it just seems like it's taking
forever to resolve this, but Forest Service is only acquiring
the surface rights knowing that the surface estate could be
impacted if minerals are discovered because the regional corps
have the rights to development under both ANCSA and ANILCA.
I know that your staff has been working to find a solution
to gain the subsurface to these lands. I do not know if you are
up to speed on this, whether you have any status update as to
where we are in finally resolving this?
Ms. Christiansen. Yes, I am aware.
I know that we are working with Sealaska on the subsurface
issue and opportunity. There are some differences about the
potential evaluation of those subsurfaces. And Sealaska, after
a meeting our folks had in February, they informed us that they
were going to hire an outside consultant to evaluate the, what
might be entailed in those subsurface minerals.
The Chairman. So, not necessarily an appraisal?
Ms. Christiansen. No.
The Chairman. But an assessment of the resource?
Ms. Christiansen. That's how I understand it, Senator.
And this was something that they wanted to do. So we are,
of course, anxiously awaiting to get back with them after that
consultation.
The Chairman. Okay, okay.
I thought that was going to be my last question, but let me
throw one more out at you and this relates to improving the
agency's NEPA processing.
Ms. Christiansen. Yes.
The Chairman. The Forest Service has launched this advanced
notice of proposed rulemaking on NEPA, working on ways to make
it more efficient and comply with environmental laws.
I have heard some concerns about how the effort is being
conducted. I am just wondering what the status of this review
is, where next steps are taking you as you are dealing with
this NEPA review effort. We have also heard that there is
possibly non-federal entities that have been holding sessions
related to the NEPA review effort. If you can just give me the
status on where we are with this.
Ms. Christiansen. Yeah, Senator. We're trying to be well-
informed about the issues and the opportunities around the
whole process. So we did hold ten roundtables across the U.S.
and one technical session. We partnered with the National
Forest Foundation to help us with those roundtables. They did
bring in a couple partners to help with the facilitation. We
were very balanced in who were at and attended and had input
into those roundtables. I'd be glad to talk to you anymore
about concerns that you've heard.
The Chairman. That might be worth a conversation with our
staffs just so that we have a little bit of the background----
Ms. Christiansen. Sure.
The Chairman. ----to respond to some of the concerns that
have been raised with us.
Ms. Christiansen. I'd be glad to.
The Chairman. Okay, good, good, good.
We are approaching the noon hour. I appreciate you being
here this morning, being as responsive as you have been to the
wide variety of questions that have been posed by members.
Obviously, this is an important agency, not only for the
Committee, but really, it is an important agency for the
management of so much of our land across the country.
As we deal with some of these challenges, whether it be
fire, whether it be timber harvest, whether it be recreation,
grazing, know that we, as a Committee, stand ready to work with
you and your team.
You have taken on a lot in just six weeks and I think your
background, actually being on the ground, in the forests,
working it, gives you a good perspective on the needs of the
agency, but I also recognize that you are dealing with a big
bureaucracy here.
We wish you well in that, and I appreciate your leadership.
Thank you.
We stand adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:49 a.m. the hearing was adjourned.]
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