[Senate Hearing 115-338]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 115-338
CAPUANO AND PETTY NOMINATIONS
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
To
CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF DR. LINDA A. CAPUANO TO BE ADMINISTRATOR OF
THE ENERGY INFORMATION ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY; AND DR.
TIMOTHY R. PETTY TO BE AN ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR
__________
DECEMBER 5, 2017
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COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho RON WYDEN, Oregon
MIKE LEE, Utah BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
JEFF FLAKE, Arizona DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
STEVE DAINES, Montana AL FRANKEN, Minnesota
CORY GARDNER, Colorado JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
ROB PORTMAN, Ohio TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
LUTHER STRANGE, Alabama CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
Brian Hughes, Staff Director
Patrick J. McCormick III, Chief Counsel
Kellie Donnelly, Deputy Chief Counsel
Angela Becker-Dippmann, Democratic Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Alaska.... 1
Cantwell, Hon. Maria, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
Washington..................................................... 2
Risch, Hon. James E., a U.S. Senator from Idaho.................. 3
WITNESSES
Petty, Dr. Timothy R., nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of
the Inte-
rior........................................................... 15
Capuano, Dr. Linda A., nominated to be Administrator of the
Energy Information Administration.............................. 21
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Adams, Dr. Barbara:
Letter for the Record........................................ 57
Cahill, Dr. Catherine F.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 5
California Waterfowl Association and Delta Waterfowl:
Letter for the Record........................................ 6
Cantwell, Hon. Maria:
Opening Statement............................................ 2
Capuano, Dr. Linda A.:
Opening Statement............................................ 21
Written Testimony............................................ 22
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 52
Family Farm Alliance:
Letter for the Record........................................ 7
Idaho Water Users Association, Inc.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 9
Kempthorne, Hon. Dirk:
Letter for the Record........................................ 58
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
National Water Resources Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 11
Pacific Northwest Waterways Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 59
Petty, Dr. Timothy R.:
Opening Statement............................................ 15
Written Testimony............................................ 18
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 42
Public Lands Council and the National Cattlemen's Beef
Association:
Letter for the Record........................................ 12
Risch, Hon. James E.:
Opening Statement............................................ 3
Tehama-Colusa Canal Authority:
Letter for the Record........................................ 13
USGS Coalition:
Letter for the Record........................................ 60
CAPUANO AND PETTY NOMINATIONS
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TUESDAY, DECEMBER 5, 2017
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:08 a.m. in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Lisa
Murkowski, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI,
U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA
The Chairman. Good morning, welcome everyone.
The Committee will come to order.
We are here to consider two nominations this morning: Dr.
Linda Capuano, to be the Administrator of the Energy
Information Administration (EIA), and Dr. Timothy Petty, to be
Assistant Secretary of the Interior for Water and Science.
Dr. Petty is a friend. He is a trusted advisor to many of
us. We have benefited from his expertise on both water and
science issues for quite some time. He is Senator Risch's
Deputy Legislative Director. He has also served as a
Legislative Assistant covering many issues that come before
this Committee, including the Western Water and USGS issues
that will be part of his portfolio at the Department of the
Interior (DOI).
When Dr. Petty is confirmed it will actually mark his
return to the Water and Science hallway at Interior. That is
because he worked there during the Bush Administration as a
Deputy Assistant Secretary and for a time as the Acting Head of
the Office for which he is now nominated. Dr. Petty is very
well qualified and, I think, an excellent choice for this
position.
I look forward to filling out Secretary Zinke's Water Team,
and I recognize that having a team of professionals in place at
Interior on these issues is important to many on our Committee,
not to mention millions of Americans living out in the West.
There are a lot of good things that we can say about Dr.
Petty, but I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge his
connection to my home state. He earned his Ph.D. from the
University of Alaska, Fairbanks. Terrific. I am sure we can all
agree on him and his qualifications, but certainly his choice
of doctoral programs clearly demonstrates his excellent
judgment.
[Laughter.]
We acknowledge that.
We will also consider the nomination of Dr. Linda Capuano
to be the Administrator of the Energy Information
Administration at the Department of Energy. Dr. Capuano has
broad experience in the energy and technology industries. She
has held senior positions at a number of companies and co-
founded a startup venture that commercialized ceramic
superconductor technology. Dr. Capuano is currently a Fellow at
Rice University in the Baker Institute for Public Policy Center
for Energy Studies. She is also on the faculty of Rice's
Graduate School of Business. Her distinct qualifications and
robust work history make her a good fit to be at the helm of
EIA as we move toward American energy dominance.
I welcome you both to the Committee and thank you for your
willingness to serve our nation.
It would certainly be my hope and intention to move the
nominations quickly, reporting you from the Committee,
hopefully, as soon as next week. I would hope to confirm you
both before Christmas, along with the other well-qualified
Interior nominees who have been stuck on the Senate calendar
now for several months, far longer than their predecessors in
the previous Administration. We want to try to get these
processed as soon and as expeditiously as we can.
Again, thank you both for being with us this morning. We
will look forward to your comments.
I will now turn to Senator Cantwell for her comments this
morning.
STATEMENT OF HON. MARIA CANTWELL,
U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON
Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair.
The two nominations before the Committee this morning are
important because Dr. Petty and Dr. Capuano, if confirmed, will
represent and be responsible for agencies where we depend on
sound science and reliable data.
Public policy needs to be based on sound science and honest
information. Policymakers can draw different conclusions from
the facts, but they should never have the facts distorted or
manipulated to justify policy choices.
It is vitally important that the scientists and economists
in the Department of the Interior and Department of Energy
remain independent and the integrity of their work be protected
from partisan ideology. That is why the two nominations we have
before us this morning are so important.
The Assistant Secretary of Water and Science is responsible
for overseeing the Geological Survey which is one of the
premier science agencies in the Federal Government. The
Geological Survey provides the nation with science about water,
energy, minerals and other natural resources, about floods,
fires, earthquakes, volcanoes and other natural disasters,
about the health of our ecosystems and our environment and
about climate change. It is essential that this important work
continue and that the scientists who do it are protected from
the public interference and that their work inform policymakers
rather than the other way around.
In addition, the Assistant Secretary of Water and Science
oversees the Bureau of Reclamation which grew out of the
Geological Survey. It is the nation's largest water supplier
and the second largest producer of hydroelectric power. It
provides water to millions of our citizens and millions of
acres of our farm land that produce much of our food.
The job of the Administrator of Energy Information
Administration is no less important. The Energy Information
Administration was established in the Department of Energy to
collect, analyze, evaluate and disseminate data about our
energy resources and production, demand and the technology
needed to manage our energy needs for the future. It also
collects energy pricing data needed to protect consumers and
ensure the integrity of competitive energy markets.
Simply put, the two nominees before us this morning have
each been nominated to lead premier, information-gathering
agencies in their departments. I am pleased that both are
highly qualified and have great professional experiences.
I look forward to hearing from them on how their views on
these agencies and their oversight will add to those comments I
just mentioned on science and the independence and integrity of
those agencies.
I welcome both the nominees and their families and friends
here today, and thank you for your willingness to serve.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cantwell.
Senator Risch, I would invite you to provide comments
regarding Dr. Petty.
STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES E. RISCH,
U.S. SENATOR FROM IDAHO
Senator Risch. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
It is bittersweet to do this, because Tim has been an
integral member of our team.
Tim and Elaine--Elaine is here and I am sure Tim will
introduce Elaine when we start--have been important to my
office for the almost decade that I have been here.
Tim has had a distinguished career in public service and is
exceptionally qualified to serve as the Department of the
Interior's Assistant Secretary for Water and Science.
To those of us, and there's a lot of us in various offices,
that do know Tim, who he has worked with, we recognize he has a
deep understanding of the complex nexus of water and science.
In fact, when he was working on his doctorate, he used the
Boise River--which is a river system that flows directly
through the capital city and which has had a history of
flooding over the years and has a dam system now on it--he used
this particular river to study predictability of potential
flooding and used it for part of his peer reviewed journals for
his doctorate.
Tim has also initiated and spearheaded the interest in many
of the various Senate offices, even though he worked for me, of
using geospatial mapping for a myriad of purposes, including
mapping forest fires, fish and wildlife management, dam
effectiveness and other resources. This geospatial mapping
information has added to our already existing statistical
analysis giving Senators a deeper and better understanding of
their states.
Prior to joining my office, Tim served as Acting Assistant
Secretary and Deputy Assistant Secretary for Water and Science
at the Department of the Interior under President George W.
Bush, as you have noted Madam Chairman, and did an exceptional
job there. He will be returning to that.
Previously, Tim worked in the private sector for more than
10 years in California and Indiana as a geologist and a
hydrologist.
He earned a Ph.D. from the University of Alaska and, Madam
Chairman, I think you properly note that the University of
Alaska has an outstanding program for the discipline that he is
interested in.
Working with Tim for these years, I am confident that he
will approach each issue that comes before him with the same
thoughtfulness and deliberate consideration that I have seen
firsthand. Although I really hate to lose Tim, I mean that
sincerely, I know that the Department of the Interior and the
United States of America will benefit from his experience and
expertise at the agency. I commend him to the Committee and to
the Senate.
Madam Chairman, I would like to have introduced for the
record some communications from a number of organizations that
are supporting this, the National Water Resources Association,
Idaho Water Users Association, California Waterfowl, Delta
Waterfowl, the Tehama-Colusa Canal Authority and the University
of Alaska, Fairbanks, all of whom are supporting the
nomination.
[Laughter.]
The Chairman. They will certainly be incorporated as part
of the record, and we will put an asterisk next to the one from
the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.
[Laughter.]
Senator Risch. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Risch.
[The information referred to follows:]
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The Chairman. At this time, I would ask that you both rise.
The rules of the Committee which apply to all nominees require
that they be sworn in connection with their testimony. So now
that you have risen, please raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to
give to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
[Both answer, I do.]
The Chairman. Before you begin your statements, you may go
ahead and be seated, I will ask you three questions addressed
to each nominee before the Committee.
Will you be available to appear before this Committee and
other Congressional committees to represent departmental
positions and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
[Both answer, yes.]
The Chairman. Are you aware of any personal holdings,
investments or interests that could constitute a conflict or
create an appearance of such a conflict should you be confirmed
and assume the office to which you have been nominated by the
President?
[Both answer, no.]
The Chairman. Are you involved or do you have any assets
held in blind trusts?
[Both answer, no.]
The Chairman. Okay. At this point in time I would ask each
of you to provide the Committee a little bit of your background
as well as the opportunity to introduce any family or strong
supporters you may have with you. We certainly encourage that
as well.
Dr. Petty, we will begin with you, if you would like to
proceed.
STATEMENT OF DR. TIMOTHY R. PETTY, NOMINATED TO BE AN ASSISTANT
SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR
Dr. Petty. Thank you Chairman Murkowski, Ranking Member
Cantwell and obviously, the distinguished members of this
Committee.
I also want to thank you, Senator Risch, for your kind
introduction, but more important, even your leadership and
service to the State of Idaho and to the United States. You
have been a real leader to me and to many.
It is a distinct honor and a privilege to appear before you
today as President Trump's nominee to serve the American people
as Assistant Secretary for Water and Science at the Department
of the Interior. I wish to thank Secretary Zinke for his
support and confidence in this position.
I would like to take a moment and acknowledge my wife,
Elaine Petty, here behind me, and actually, one of my four
siblings, Pam, who is also here and traveled from Indiana to be
here with me today. I would also like to just mention and thank
a lot of my friends and colleagues who are here with me as
well, who have been a huge support in insight for me for these
many years, who are also joining us today.
So if I may, I was born and raised on a family farm in
Grant County, Indiana. I am proud to be the son of Esther and
Morris Petty. My father, a farmer and a large animal cattle
breeder, was killed in an automobile accident when I was but a
young individual, and my amazing mother raised five of us on
the family farm.
Working on the family farm, cultivating agricultural
fields, harvesting fall crops, milking cows, bailing hay and
watching the growth of life all around me was fundamental in
preparation for my entire career. My mother raised all of us
kids with strong family values, a solid work ethic, genuine
integrity, a high commitment to education and a belief in God.
I was inspired to study Earth science from a young age. Our
farm was bordered by an important river and watershed in the
northeastern part of Indiana and the water fascinated me. A
stone quarry and gravel pit was also on our property which also
created the love for geology at an early age as well.
This interest led me to pursue a Bachelor of Science degree
in Geoscience at Purdue University. I then worked in Indiana,
California and abroad as a staff geologist and hydrogeologist,
learning the trade of ground surveying, mapping, surface and
sub-surface hydrology, earthquake investigation, groundwater
contamination as well as water quality research.
After working in the private sector, I joined the staff of
the Senate Republican Conference, under two consecutive
Chairmen, Senator Connie Mack of Florida as well as Senator
Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania. During that time, I also earned
a Master's Degree in Business from the University of Maryland
to help hone my management and technology skills.
While still working in the Legislative Branch, I was tapped
to be the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Water and Science
under and with Secretary Kempthorne.
At DOI, I supported the leadership of the U.S. Geological
Survey and the Bureau of Reclamation. This included providing
oversight in policy and technical review of programs that are
so vital, including stream gauge, irrigation water demand,
ground monitoring, earthquakes, volcanoes, geospatial mapping,
just to name a few.
Also, I want to highlight that Secretary Kempthorne also
designated me at that time at DOI to represent several groups
including the Executive Principal to the Gulf Coast Hypoxia
Task Force as well as the DOI principal review team leader for
the Interagency Panel for Climate Change.
At the end of the Bush Administration, I returned to the
Legislative Branch to work for Senator Risch. Senator Risch was
so kind to outline so many of those different areas, but while
also working with him here in the Senate, I received my Ph.D.
in Water Science and Policy at the School of Engineering and
Mining at the University of Alaska.
Together, I believe my experience and education has
prepared me for this position to effectively serve the American
people. I commit myself to provide the best-informed advice
possible for Secretary Zinke. I will listen to and work with
the Committee and Congress in these areas.
Chairman Murkowski, Ranking Member Cantwell and members of
the Committee, I thank you again for the consideration of my
nomination. Throughout my time in the Senate, I have had the
privilege of working with virtually every member on the
Committee and more specifically, the staff, in a good faith
effort to build consensus and workable solutions on these
issues before us.
If confirmed, I look forward to continuing those efforts as
we pursue the common goal of securing American water and
science future. I look forward to answering any of your
questions.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Petty follows:]
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The Chairman. Thank you, Dr. Petty.
Dr. Capuano, welcome.
STATEMENT OF DR. LINDA A. CAPUANO, NOMINATED TO BE
ADMINISTRATOR OF THE ENERGY INFORMATION ADMINISTRATION
Dr. Capuano. Thank you.
Chairman Murkowski, Ranking Member Cantwell and
distinguished members of the Committee, it's an honor and
privilege to appear before you as the nominee for Administrator
of the Energy Information Administration.
I'm grateful to the President and to Secretary Perry for
their confidence in trusting me with this important assignment.
EIA is the statistical and analytical agency of the
Department of Energy. It collects and disseminates a wide range
of energy information covering energy production, stocks,
demand, imports, exports, prices, technologies and emissions.
As a researcher and analyst, I appreciate the importance of
EIA's independent role in providing unbiased information and
analysis to inform policymakers, markets and members of the
public in making informed energy decisions across the public
and private sector.
If confirmed by the Senate, I will bring to the position
the experience of a career that began with applying materials
science and engineering to products in computer memory,
semiconductors and power units and evolved to a focus on energy
in the electricity and petroleum sectors.
I've also spent my career planning for and managing change.
The rapidity that which technology is changing, everything from
the production of oil and gas to the integration of distributed
generation including storage technologies and microgrids, is a
challenge for EIA that I would willingly embrace.
I understand the important role that all of our fuels play
in delivering energy to consumers. I understand this Committee
has had specific requests of EIA, an analysis of energy and
financial markets, energy consumption surveys and expanded
coverage of distributed generation.
If confirmed, these programs would remain a priority and I
would work closely with the Committee on these and other
matters.
Thank you and I look forward to answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Capuano follows:]
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The Chairman. Thank you, Dr. Capuano.
We will begin with five-minute rounds so we may have an
opportunity for a second round for folks, if they are so
inclined.
Dr. Petty, let me start with you.
I talk a lot in this Committee about the growing dependency
that we have in this nation when it comes to minerals. When I
say dependency, it is a dependency on outside sources.
Last year the United States imported 100 percent of 20
different minerals and at least 50 percent of another 30. I
have likened it to the situation that we were in some years
back when we were always talking about our reliance overseas
for oil and how that made us vulnerable as a nation from an
energy security perspective but also from a national security
perspective.
We are doing much better on the oil side but, in my view,
we are going in the wrong direction when it comes to mineral
security. Can you speak, just briefly, to the role that you
believe that USGS can play in our efforts to lessen that
dependency and whether you think that the agency, USGS,
requires additional statutory authority that might be helpful
or necessary to address this?
Dr. Petty. Yes, thank you, Senator.
Absolutely. Your opening comments, specifically on
minerals, is really a critical aspect, both obviously, for
Alaska in working these many years, even with the State of
Idaho, critical minerals are in both of these locations.
With USGS being able to be the principle gathering of that
information on those specific type of minerals, it is critical
that we give full support to the U.S. Geological Survey in
these priorities.
I've been here for many years of the briefings that have
actually taken place in this hearing room and with the
testimonies that the different experts from the U.S. Geological
Survey, who have come to this specific Committee, highlighting
the importance and gathering that information.
It is up to, obviously, the Committee to continue giving
direction and support to how the U.S. Geological Survey can
support each one of the individual states and members, as well
as this whole country in those important value of those
minerals.
So I look forward to working with you and your staff as we
continue to pursue exactly how we need to get better data to
this Committee, specifically, so that we can support the
decisions that you'll need to make into the future.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Dr. Capuano, you mentioned the independent role of EIA and
the fact that it is held out to be this unbiased arbiter, if
you will, of data. I know this Committee certainly looks to the
information that comes from EIA and we want to be able to rely
on, not only its accuracy, but really, a very unbiased view.
I think it is fair to say that when you have political and
policy questions that come together, there can be great
discussions about whether or not there is some bias that is
brought to it; however, when we are looking at baseline
predictions of future energy markets and how different
regulatory environments or different legal scenarios might
change that baseline, this job, working within EIA, becomes
more than a little bit complicated.
Basically what I am looking for this morning is the
assurance that your work within EIA will be one that keeps us
from the politicization or the bias that one can see. I believe
the EIA needs to maintain that truly independent role, and I
would like for you to speak to that.
Dr. Capuano. If appointed to this position, I will bring
the years of experience I have in technology training and
sorting out issues around data versus opinion. And so, I am
very committed to working with EIA to make sure that the data
is high quality, that it's credible and that it is not biased.
And I'll just do my best to work to do that.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Cantwell.
Senator Cantwell. Dr. Petty, welcome. I'm sure the
Boilermakers are very proud of you.
[Laughter.]
Regarding the Yakima Basin project, I think you have
probably had a chance, just because of its regional
significance, to get familiar with that. It is very integrated
in its planning. Do you support that project and making sure
that it gets funded?
Dr. Petty. Yes, Senator Cantwell, absolutely.
I look forward to working, obviously, with you,
specifically. I have been working on multiple years on that
specific water project, working with your staff which is a
critical part into the part three section of where we're at now
in that specific project.
As we move forward, the Bureau of Reclamation has been up
here on numerous occasions to testify of what has been taking
place there, interacting with Senator Risch specifically. What
is important is how the State of Washington has actually
stepped up in a huge way in this project as well, and I think
there's some really good capabilities there for us to continue
to develop and working with you on that and your staff.
Senator Cantwell. So you support continued funding?
Dr. Petty. Yes, continued with Reclamation's
recommendations as well.
Senator Cantwell. I think it is a great example of where we
need to go on a problem that is not going away.
Dr. Petty. Right.
Senator Cantwell. By that I mean, I think it is a great
example of where we need to go on other projects across the
nation to more quickly expedite our response to drought
conditions and things that we are facing.
So----
Dr. Petty. Yes.
Senator Cantwell. I look forward to working with you on
that.
Dr. Capuano, on energy information, do you think EIA needs
to analyze energy future contracts and commodity swaps and
derivatives and how they affect the day-to-day oil price?
Dr. Capuano. That's a really good question.
It's a very complex issue and as I move, you know, if I am
appointed to this position, I will spend time trying to
understand the details of that, but again, our role in EIA
would be to provide the data that would be necessary to be able
to do that kind of analysis.
Senator Cantwell. If you could take a look at that. This is
language that we have passed out of the Senate and so, we think
it is----
Dr. Capuano. I commit to take a look at it.
Senator Cantwell. Yes, that would be great, and you can
give us an answer on it.
It is very important that our energy markets are properly
policed, and I know you mentioned distributed generation
several times in your comments. That's great. We have
definitely seen a lot of shenanigans in the energy market and,
hopefully, we will continue to have a strong FERC that plays an
oversight role, that polices them in a proper way. But at the
same time, you need information and oftentimes the kinds of
activities that we can see in manipulation you can see right in
the energy data. That's why it is so important that you
continue to play that oversight role in an important way.
So, to me, you need to collect information on a fully
integrated financial market so that you understand the impacts.
We had this for a long discussion in the ENRON crisis about how
much future contract price affected the spot price market as
well.
Of course, during that time period there was unbelievable
manipulation and it consequently caused great havoc. Senator
Risch and I were representing utilities and authorities that
had to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in extra fees that
we never should have paid and had to bail out California when
we probably never should have had to. I don't think BPA ever
got compensated for the amount of money that they ended up
paying to California during the crisis. It wreaked havoc on the
West Coast, and we never want to see it again. So having good
policing on the energy information is critical to us.
Dr. Capuano. I do look forward to having more conversations
on that topic and understanding what EIA can provide that you
could use then.
Senator Cantwell. Great.
We will get you the language that passed out of the Senate.
Thank you so much.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cantwell.
Senator Risch.
Senator Risch. Senator Cantwell, thank you for reminding me
how much fun it was to pay a lot in California.
[Laughter.]
Madam Chairman, I really do not have any questions since I
have spent so much time with Tim, and I want to give everybody
the opportunity to have questions.
Tim, I wonder if you could take just a couple minutes and
talk about some of the work that you have done on the Boise
River that is so important to the people in the Treasure Valley
in Idaho while you have been on my staff?
Dr. Petty. Thank you, Senator, absolutely.
It has been an amazing experience and privilege to look at
and focus in on the Boise River, working with the Army Corps of
Engineers and, obviously, the number of dams that the Bureau of
Reclamation holds, specifically, on that dam.
It's a combination of how do you balance the needs for the
water irrigators in all the agricultural components around the
Boise complex and the Boise project as well as balancing flood
control. And that is so much of what the West is about. It's a
high plain desert.
Once you put water on that amazing soil it produces an
incredible amount of productivity agriculturally, but yet at
the same time, it's the capital city of our state, of the State
of Idaho. That combination is always in a complex way where
you're dealing with those years of even drought and years of
trying to manage to hold those specific areas of periods of
flood.
That city is always on pins and needles during periods when
there is significant spring rain, because you also have to rely
on other agencies in that area of snow accumulation, how to
manage it and how to work together. That is an amazing part of
what both Governor Otter and yourself, with your years of
experience, as you're working with all the agencies to really
move forward in those specific focus on both water service as
well as flood control which ties in both why USGS's water
center there is in Boise but also the headquarters of the
Northwest Bureau of Reclamations headquarters are there as well
in Boise. So it really creates a nexus for a lot of important
data and information so that both local, state and federal can
work together.
Senator Risch. Thanks, Tim.
I yield back my time, Madam Chairman.
The Chairman. Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you, Madam Chair.
This is to both Dr. Petty and Dr. Capuano.
You have both been nominated to lead agencies where
independent, scientific research is very critical to the
mission of those agencies. Are both of you committed to
scientific data to inform policy actions?
Dr. Petty. Yes, I am.
Dr. Capuano. Yes, I am.
Senator Hirono. Again, to both of you, is climate change
real? Yes or no? You are scientists. Is climate change real?
Dr. Capuano. The EIA provides unbiased data to inform those
kinds of discussions. They're very complex and the environment
is very important. As the Administrator of EIA, if I am
appointed, it would not be wise for me to take a position on
any particular issue, but to make sure that accurate and
credible data is provided so those issues can be debated and
discussed.
Senator Hirono. So you are saying that you sit here and you
tell us that you do not know whether climate change is real or
not?
Dr. Capuano. No, I said that it would be inappropriate for
me, if I was appointed as EIA Administrator, to take a position
on such a highly debated topic.
Senator Hirono. Do you acknowledge that most of the
scientific community have said that climate change is real and,
in fact, the Department of Defense has testified that climate
change is what is a tremendous issue for them impacting our
national security?
Dr. Capuano. If you're asking if I'm aware of the debate,
yes, I am very aware of the debate.
Senator Hirono. And that most of the evidence in the
scientific community says that climate change is real?
Do you acknowledge----
Dr. Capuano. Again, I'm aware that there is a lot of debate
on that. There are those kinds of statements out there. But
again, for me to take a position would introduce a bias that
would hinder me as the Director of----
Senator Hirono. Excuse me, you both said that you believe
that science, scientific research, should inform. This is not
about bias. We are relying on both of you to provide us with
scientific data, not political positions, that would inform our
decisions.
Dr. Petty, what is your view? Is climate change real?
Dr. Petty. Yes, Senator, I want to just make sure that it's
clear that climate change is real.
Senator Hirono. Thank you.
Dr. Petty. And----
Senator Hirono. Should our policies reflect that fact, that
climate change is real?
I will ask you, Dr. Petty.
Dr. Petty. Yes, I think it's very important that we get the
scientific data in the hands of decision-makers.
Senator Hirono. You are both going to be working in an
Administration where the President denies the reality of
climate change and I would like to know, particularly from you,
Dr. Petty, since you at least acknowledge that climate change
is real, how would you react if you felt political pressure to
suppress data or shape results to fit a political agenda, i.e.,
that climate change is not real? Can you give me an example of
when, in your public life, because you have worked for a number
of political people as well as Administrations, when in your
professional life you have stood up to political pressure to
put forth what you believe is science?
Dr. Petty. Yes, Senator, and thank you for that question.
I think it's important that we realize that in the science
community and as a scientist and looking at peer review that
it's important that the science is clearly communicated in that
area of resources that it then can be provided to the specific
decision-makers.
So----
Senator Hirono. Can you describe a time in your public life
or a time that you have worked in various political offices
where you have stood up to political pressure? Because that is
part of your doctoral research, scientific knowledge into
political action. You have a commitment to science to inform
our policy decisions. When have you stood up to political
pressure? Can you describe a time when that happened with you?
Dr. Petty. I can give you some examples of where I have
seen and worked with it specifically, working at the University
of Alaska, Fairbanks, specifically on the Tanana River which
has been part of my research where you're looking at different
years at different times there is impact that takes place. As
you build on those different research areas you're always
challenged with those different scientific review.
And so, for me to be able to respond back to different
examples is in the science community there are different
reports that come out and you have to interact with those
science communities because the scientific method and science
of that is important to facilitate.
Senator Hirono. Are you saying that you have always stood
up to political pressure that your position is that you stand
by your scientific research and that is what you intend to do
with this Administration?
Dr. Petty. I would very much want to commit to you that
it's important that the science community is also heard and
that their research that they're putting forward is also heard
on both communities that are supporting in those different
research areas.
Senator Hirono. Well, with this Administration your voice
is going to be very, very important and it's going to need to
be very loud. I look forward, should you be confirmed, to hear
what you have to say.
Dr. Petty. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Hirono. Thank you very much. I will have further
questions for our witnesses.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hirono.
Senator Hirono. Thank you.
The Chairman. Senator Gardner.
Senator Gardner. Thank you, Madam Chair.
And thank you to Dr. Capuano and Dr. Petty for your
service. Congratulations on your appointments. Thank you for
being here today.
Dr. Petty, I have to admit, while I can forgive your
association with Senator Risch and the work in his office, I do
not know that I can ever forgive any association of water work
in California. As a Coloradan, I am very nervous about that,
so--
[Laughter.]
But thank you for your willingness to serve.
Dr. Capuano, of course, the University of Colorado in your
background. It is great to see a fellow University of Colorado
Buffalo before the Committee.
So, thank you both.
In your testimony you talked about the work of the Bureau
of Reclamation. Obviously something very important to us in the
West, particularly in Colorado, when it comes to water storage
and delivery.
I want to talk a little bit about how vitally important a
project the Arkansas--the Bureau of Reclamation has in Colorado
called the Arkansas Valley Conduit affecting about 50,000 of my
constituents. This is a 130-mile pipeline with spurs that would
serve as many as 40 communities, over 50,000 people East of
Pueblo, Colorado. It is a project that would deliver filtered
water to an area that is facing economic challenges and
certainly water quality challenges. We have to make sure that
we are supplementing existing water supplies because of
increasing compliance issues from the federal and state
governments regarding salinity, radionuclide contaminations and
fresh groundwater availability.
This project, the Arkansas Valley Conduit, was authorized
by Congress in 1962. President Kennedy actually came to Pueblo,
Colorado, as part of this effort. It was not until 2009 where
we changed some of the legislation surrounding the Arkansas
Valley Conduit and the cost share agreements to a 65/35 split
that allowed this project to move forward.
In 2017, Reclamation, as well as the Southeast Colorado
Water Conservancy District, along with Pueblo Water, began
discussions about a plan that would help change the layout of
the pipeline design, a new concept that they came up with that
would dramatically decrease the cost of the project. It is
basically moving the pipeline a little bit further down the way
so that they could hook up in to Pueblo Water and cut off some
of the distance the pipeline would be required to go.
So, in instances like this where project sponsors
successfully pitches a partnership that successfully reduces
and drastically reduces the timeline of the cost of the
project, can I get your commitment that Reclamation will give
projects like the Arkansas Valley Conduit fair consideration
that it will be done, that you will do everything you can to
make sure the regulatory administrative processes do not
endlessly bog down projects like this and that you will do what
you can to make the case on the value and the advanced timeline
at OMB?
Dr. Petty. Yes, Senator, absolutely.
I want to make sure that it's clear. I was here in the
hearings when you asked the same exact questions with Secretary
Zinke as well as the nomination and now confirmed Deputy
Secretary Bernhardt. And so, both of them have made sure that
you and your staff will be dealing with those specifically
individually.
I think Secretary Zinke has put together a great team in
the water and science hallway, working with Commissioner Burman
on these specific issues. We look forward to, obviously,
working with you and your staff, specifically, to make sure
that we can bring the full support of Reclamation into those
specific areas and projects.
Senator Gardner. Thank you.
Clean, abundant, affordable water, obviously a promise
Congress made in 1962. I would like to see that move from----
Dr. Petty. Absolutely.
Senator Gardner. ----pipe dream to pipeline and make sure
we get this done.
The other issue I want to talk to you about, Dr. Petty, is
in August 2015, as you know, EPA triggered a three-million-
gallon spill of acid mine drainage into the Animas River in
Southwestern Colorado. This area of Colorado is now a superfund
site. EPA is responsible for remediation of the mines within
the boundaries of the superfund listing.
There are over 160,000 inactive or abandoned mines
throughout the country and many in the West. If you look at the
Bureau of Land Management within the Department of Interior,
48,000 inactive or abandoned mine sites exists. The Forest
Service has over 40,000 inactive, abandoned mines on land that
it manages. You can imagine, if just 10 percent of these were
creating environmental damage or harm to the environment, the
sort of impact that that would have and the enormity of the
challenge that we face.
If you go back to the 106th Congress, you can start to see
legislation that has been introduced dealing with Good
Samaritan legislation. Senator Domenici, Senators Salazar,
Allard, Udall, and a number of others, Ben Nighthorse Campbell,
have worked on Good Samaritan legislation to address these
inactive and abandoned mine sites.
During the 109th Congress, this Committee reported out a
bill that was co-sponsored by Senator Allard and Senator
Salazar.
Given your expertise in hydrology, the work that you will
be doing at Interior, you are going to hold some Interior
Department oversight ability and be over our land management
agencies as well.
Can I ask your opinion of Good Samaritan legislation, where
you think it goes and what we need to do?
Dr. Petty. Yes, Senator, another great point.
Working with that--I know you have a long history, even
with Leadville and these different areas that specifically have
mine issues that actually translate right into specific areas
of water. So I look forward to specifically working with you on
this 2015 impact that, obviously, has impacted multiple
downriver communities because those are the direct impacts that
come out of that.
Just based on our time and our effort, I really do look
forward to sitting down with you, specifically, your staff,
which I've been working with for multiple years now on how we
can better work together and work with the Committee on EPW on
behalf of Reclamation on these specific issues.
Senator Gardner. Great. Thanks, Dr. Petty, Dr. Capuano.
Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Gardner.
Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. Let me start, Dr. Petty, by thanking you
for your candid answer with regard to climate change science.
Dr. Capuano, is gravity real?
Dr. Capuano. Pardon? I didn't hear that.
Senator Heinrich. Is gravity real? I mean, it is just a
theory.
[Laughter.]
Dr. Capuano. Yes. Gravity is real. Yes.
Senator Heinrich. We can't see it, but the data would
suggest it is real.
Dr. Capuano. Yes.
Senator Heinrich. What does the preponderance of the data
suggest with regard to climate change?
Dr. Capuano. So, the EIA does present for the data around
greenhouse gas emissions that is used to debate on both sides
of that, that issue. And we all know that it is very important
to protect the environment and that we need to work toward
that.
But again, putting me into the position of taking a side on
such a hotly debated issue would introduce bias as a leader of
the EIA. And so, as an administrator I would have to refrain
from answering that question.
Senator Heinrich. Well, let's talk about bias then.
Dr. Capuano. Yes, okay.
Senator Heinrich. Because the EIA has consistently and,
actually, spectacularly underestimated growth in clean energy
as well as growth in the gas sector.
For example, solar generating capacity was 4,813 percent
more in 2016 than the EIA predicted in 2006. As another
example, EIA predicted that 6.5 gigawatts of new wind
generating capacity would be installed between 2017 and 2030.
We are already installing more than that every single year.
The data and EIA's bias seem to have a chasm between them.
Why do you think that is and what do you intend to do about it?
Dr. Capuano. The EIA is committed to collecting and
presenting high-quality, credible data. In the modeling, the
modeling activities and the data that's used in the models and
the assumptions are transparent so that as you compare the
trends with the actual data you can see what's driving the
deviation.
As a technologist and with the years of experience that
I've had, I am very committed to making sure that the data
continues to be high quality, that accuracy is increased and
that assumptions are improved. I'm highly committed to that.
Independent of what the results are, meaning independent of
what conclusion they lead you to, it is very important that the
data quality continues to improve.
Senator Heinrich. Do you think there is a problem at EIA,
assuming that things will continue where they are rather than
looking at where the trend lines are headed?
Dr. Capuano. Allow me to separate that question.
There are assumptions in the models that are used in order
to create scenarios and are used in order to be the foundations
of the trends.
Senator Heinrich. I understand.
Dr. Capuano. Those assumptions are always being looked at
and always are--there is always room to correct those and
improve those and look forward to conversations to do that.
Those assumptions on the data that's entered into the model
will lead to results. I don't see--I'm having difficulty with
the discussion of where's the bias has entered--is inserted
into that.
Senator Heinrich. Well, junk in, junk out, right? I mean,
that is what we all learn in school.
Dr. Capuano. Well, the solution----
Senator Heinrich. And so, if you get the assumptions
spectacularly wrong, you will get data out the other end or a
result out the other end that does not match up with the data
in a sometimes-spectacular fashion. And I think garbage in,
garbage out, as my----
Dr. Capuano. Like quality in, quality out and the data
that's collected by EIA is----
Senator Heinrich. Do you think those predictions, the
results that EIA has given to all of us, have been high-quality
predictions?
Dr. Capuano. I believe that the information that EIA gives
you is high quality and it is credible and that the sources are
identified and that they can be improved continuously as the
source of data is improved.
Senator Heinrich. That did not sound like a yes or no
answer.
Dr. Capuano. So, excuse me.
Senator Heinrich. Yes.
Dr. Capuano. If you would mind re-asking the question, I
could probably do a yes or no, please.
Senator Heinrich. Do you think the quality of the
predictions that EIA has made to this Committee and to the
public have produced good results, results that were----
Dr. Capuano. EIA does not make predictions. What EIA does
is it takes data and it models and it shows trends. I believe
those are high quality based upon the available information.
Senator Heinrich. Dr. Petty, you are so lucky today. I am
out of time, so I am going to have to save all of my questions
for you for the record.
But thank you once again for being able to answer a
question in a straightforward way.
Dr. Petty. Thank you, Senator. I look forward to actually
getting some time with you and your staff in the future.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
Senator Flake.
Senator Flake. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you both
for your willingness to serve.
Yes, Dr. Petty, you have a lot of experience, obviously at
DOI, that will come in handy in this position because you have
the Bureau of Reclamation within your purview. I am interested
to know your views on Colorado River water. I am glad Corey
left the building here.
[Laughter.]
Can you describe your vision for the Bureau in helping
craft Colorado River policy, particularly how you see the
Bureau or interacting with basin state representatives?
Dr. Petty. Yes.
Well, Senator, thank you so much. I think that is a very
important question, obviously, that you're working on, you have
been working on. You've been working on it for many, many
years. You have fabulous staff that understand this question,
just dealing with the drought contingency that you're working
through, trying to cooperate, obviously, building all the share
takers. And also, obviously the new commissioner with Brenda
Burman coming from your state. I think that the team that we've
really put together, I look forward to being confirmed so that
we can get specifically on your areas that we can work with you
on how we're going to lay out, specifically, it has already
been in the works with your staff and with the state in these
specific areas.
Senator Flake. Thank you.
Specifically, with outstanding water rights claims, fixing
these, it's obviously beneficial for all water users, not just
tribes. The agency you will help supervise will play an
important role here.
Do you want to talk about the Bureau and USGS as it relates
to Indian Water Settlements?
Dr. Petty. Yes, Senator.
It's very important that we continue to work through this
Committee, specifically.
A perfect example, obviously, for the State of Idaho as
well, which we've been working on for multiple years with the
success that we've had working with the Nez Perce tribe, but
then the Coeur d'Alene as well as the Shoshone-Bannock tribes
with water settlements are really important that we've been
working on for years.
I look forward to working, obviously, again, with your
staff who fully understand the complexity of your state because
I really do believe it becomes even specific region-by-region
and area-by-area that you're trying to work through each of
those water settlements on. So, I look forward to working with
you, Indian Affairs at DOI, to work those through.
Senator Flake. Great.
There are a number of USGS institutions in Arizona. They do
important work in research and data collection to support water
management. These include the Grand Canyon Monitoring and
Research Center in Flagstaff and the Arizona Water Science
Center in Tucson. Can you give some sense of how you see the
USGS's role in continuing to provide this kind of research and
data collection?
Dr. Petty. Yes, you know, Senator, there's almost 300 U.S.
Geological Survey staff in your state that specifically works
on very complex areas, obviously, the Grand Canyon, the Glen
Canyon Dam, that has been a partnership with Bureau of
Reclamation and USGS for years on studying everything from
invasives to sediment transport to flora and fauna within those
different regions as well as, obviously, the ESA impacts that
are there.
Those are a combination of working together to really build
the science that comes back to that information for U.S.
policymakers so people here on the Hill can move forward on
what is the next step in the future of where we can go in
putting in priorities for those specific areas.
Senator Flake. Thank you so much.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Flake.
Senator Franken.
Senator Franken. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I am going to just return for a second to Senator
Heinrich's question.
The EIA releases annual projections of long-term domestic
energy consumption and generation, its annual energy outlook.
Now over the last few years a range of studies suggest that EIA
has consistently overestimated oil and gas consumption and, as
Senator Heinrich said, vastly underestimated the growth of
renewables, especially distributed solar.
A study just last week from MIT reiterated the concerns
surrounding the fossil fuel projections. The EIA responded to
such criticisms in late 2016, but the agency has not indicated
yet how it plans to address these inaccuracies pertaining to
renewables.
I guess the question, more specifically than what Senator
Heinrich asked, is will you commit to working to improve the
modeling when it comes to renewable energy?
Dr. Capuano. So, if I am appointed I will--this is a very
hot issue. It is a very important issue, and I'm very aware of
that. It has big economic implications for the United States
and many people rely on the EIA data in order to do their
analyses and make decisions.
Senator Franken. Absolutely. I remember the propane----
Dr. Capuano. Absolutely.
Senator Franken. ----crisis.
Dr. Capuano. Absolutely.
Senator Franken. Which, you know, partly, and listen, you
get things wrong sometimes.
Dr. Capuano. Yes.
Senator Franken. And you get things right.
Dr. Capuano. Yes.
Senator Franken. But on this one we are getting it wrong,
consistently.
Dr. Capuano. Yes. On a theoretical level improving
assumptions, improving the types of data that go into the
models, improving the models, are theoretical ways to improve
the accuracy relative to actuals.
I can commit, firmly, that if appointed to this position
that I would be working very closely with EIA staff to
understand the deviations and how to reduce that and how to
improve it.
I look forward to any kind of conversations that can help
inform us on changes that might make the models more, track
more with what the actuals are.
Senator Franken. Well, thank you for committing to that
because, of note, the scenarios in the Annual Energy Outlook
focus on high and low fossil fuel resources and technological
change, but there is no scenario focusing on high renewable
growth.
Do you agree that a scenario focusing on the quickly
changing landscape of renewables could be a way to address some
of these issues?
Dr. Capuano. Yes, I'll acknowledge that looking hard at the
scenarios and their effect on being able to inform people so
that they can do the analysis that needs to be done is really
important. And I commit to take a look at that.
Again, but I'm not there yet. I don't know the details so I
can't----
Senator Franken. Okay, alright.
In Senator Risch's Subcommittee later this afternoon we are
going to be talking about energy storage and energy storage is
becoming more pervasive around the world, but it is not well
represented in the modeling done by EIA.
In the 2017 Annual Energy Outlook the EIA committed to
continuing to update and refine projections of technological
change. Work that is especially important for energy storage as
it becomes more ubiquitous and increasingly grid-connected. In
particular, EIA committed to improving the representation of
energy storage in future modeling work. Will you make model
improvements a priority for energy, especially for energy
storage?
Dr. Capuano. Again, not being there, not being in the
position yet, I am aware that the EIA is working on their
strategy, renewing their strategy and I look forward to working
with the EIA team and understanding their thoughts on this and
their commitments. I will pay special attention to these issues
of storage.
Senator Franken. Because storage is a real game changer.
Dr. Capuano. I understand, and I pay a lot of attention to
those conversations.
Senator Franken. Okay.
Dr. Capuano. As a citizen, I do agree.
Senator Franken. Dr. Petty, thank you for your answer on
the USGS's on making a commitment to not subverting scientific
analyses. I know that Senator Hirono asked you that, and thank
you for your answer.
Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Franken.
Senator King.
Senator King. Thank you.
Mr. Petty, can you commit that you will put aside anything
you learned from Senator Risch when you were going through
this?
[Laughter.]
Ms. Capuano, you were interviewed for this job. You went
through a process, I presume. Did anyone ever ask you in that
process your views on climate change?
Dr. Capuano. I get asked that a lot.
Senator King. Were you asked that question in the process
of your being proposed for this position?
Dr. Capuano. Actually, I don't--it may have come up. I'm
sorry, I just, I'm trying to remember all the conversations
I've had. It may have come up. If it did come up, I did not
express an opinion on it.
Senator King. Were you asked any questions about fossil
fuels and the importance of fossil fuels to our energy future?
Dr. Capuano. Well, I guess I would say that in the process
of moving through the nomination and the potential appointment
process, people have helped me and guided me through that
process. I'm having trouble with the, you know, saying have I
been asked my position on that, that was not the discussions
around the process, so.
Senator King. So no one in the process said, what are your
views on climate change, or I think you said maybe they did,
but you would have said I have no opinion? Seriously?
Dr. Capuano. Okay.
I'm trying to, you know, this process has gone on since
February, so I'm trying to remember all the conversations
honestly. The topics come up but the discussion has really been
on what needs to be done in order to get confirmed and in order
to complete the process.
Senator King. But before you were being guided as to how to
complete the process, somebody interviewed you to decide if you
were the right candidate for this job.
Dr. Capuano. I would say that the, you know, in the
volunteering to serve, it's not an interview for a position.
When you volunteer to serve during an Administration,
there's discussions around your qualifications and discussions
around your desire to have an impact, but I have not had
discussions around what my position is and how that would
relate to how I would execute the position, if I was appointed.
Senator King. So is it fair to say that your testimony is
that no one, when they were deciding whether to appoint you to
this job, inquired about your position on climate change? Is
that accurate?
Dr. Capuano. No, I said that there have--that they may have
inquired and I declined to take a position.
Senator King. What is your position?
Dr. Capuano. It would be inappropriate for me in, you know,
in taking a position--if I complete this appointment to be EIA
Administrator, if I'm successfully appointed to this position,
it would be inappropriate for me to state a position on climate
change.
The data, you know, the data are available. EIA provides
the data. In fact, it has the high majority of the greenhouse
gas data that is used on both sides of the argument comes from
EIA.
Senator King. That is why I am asking you these questions.
Dr. Capuano. Yes.
However, I don't, you know, providing the data and drawing
the conclusion, I leave the conclusions to the people that want
to set policy or have a debate on the issue. If I enter the
debate, it taints my independence and I cannot present myself
as unbiased----
Senator King. So your testimony is you have not entered
this debate at all.
Dr. Capuano. No, my--I have avoided this--no----
Senator King. You are avoiding telling me, but my question
is have you told anyone else in order to gain this----
Dr. Capuano. No, I have not told anyone my position on
climate change in order to gain the appointment. I can say that
with confidence.
Senator King. Well, that gets to the second question which
is really, I consider your job one of the most important in the
Federal Government because it is all about data and we cannot
make good policy unless we have good data.
I hope that your position which you have stated, which I am
not necessarily disagreeing with, means that you will be
absolutely straight on the data and that what worries me is
that people whose job it is to present information data such as
yourself or the head of the EIA not be tainted by the political
desires of the people who you are reporting to.
Give me your commitment on that.
Dr. Capuano. You have my commitment that I will follow the
data and I will--I have been fortunate not to have been
pressured to take a position and I would not--and I do not
intend to be pressured to take a position.
Senator King. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator King.
Dr. Capuano, I think you can tell from the questions, the
inquiries here that each of us wants to see that the EIA
continues to play that role of a very unbiased, a very much
independent agency, and I hope that is where my colleagues are
trying to go with this.
I appreciate that because I do think if you were to say
that ``this is my position,'' rightly or wrongly, there will be
others in the future that will say, aha, that conclusion was
reached through EIA because it has an Administrator who has
taken such a position.
It is a difficult place for you to walk because, I think,
around here it is important that we be able to articulate where
we come from on these issues. But again, you are being asked to
head an agency that is, is a pretty analytical agency. And if
it is not analytical and weighing evenly all the data that
comes in, I do appreciate the recognition though that it is
important that that data be good, solid, unbiased and, you
know, not the garbage in, garbage out, but the good in, good
out.
So, let me ask you about the, just the data collection.
There's an incredible amount that is collected out there. This
is the world of big data today.
But having said that, there comes a point where the EIA
does not necessarily need to be expanding the amount of data
that it collects. You have overlapping data requirements that
come to other agencies whether it is other agencies within DOE
or FERC, CFTC, the private sector also provides data about
energy facilities and markets. You have some overlap that could
create inefficiencies, that could create burdens.
Can you speak just a little bit to the effort that I think
is important to avoid duplicative, or perhaps, overlapping, but
also to making sure that as we seek to have as much data as we
need, we're not expanding it so far that perhaps we have
additional cyber risks, intrusions into privacy. There is a
border here.
Dr. Capuano. So I can say that if I am appointed to this
position that one of the first actions I would take is going
through the strategic plan and understanding the priority of
the objectives and then looking at how to achieve the
objectives in the most efficient and effective way with the
budget that we have. And so, while I don't know the details
because I'm not there yet, that is the commitment I can make.
The Chairman. Are you concerned when we talk about
cybersecurity and these risks, can you speak to that aspect of
it?
Dr. Capuano. I am very concerned, but again, I'm not in a
position to talk about the details because I have not, I don't
know these details yet because I'm not part of EIA.
I consider it a very important topic and it's something
that we all know that we need to be working to improve and
secure ourselves and that the EIA data, I am sure, has a role
in that.
And so, I really do look forward to going through the
strategic plan and setting the priorities and looking for the
balances that are required. And we all know there's never
enough money to accomplish everything.
Making very well thought out decisions on priorities and
effectiveness is really going to be an important part of this
role.
The Chairman. We talk a lot in this Committee about
cybersecurity. It is important on a host of different levels,
but recognizing just the volume of data that EIA collects, some
relating to critical infrastructure, other relating to data
critical to well-functioning markets, I think it is important
that cybersecurity be a high priority issue within the EIA and
making sure that our critical infrastructure within the energy
space is not compromised.
Mr. Petty, I have one last question for you here relating
to water infrastructure.
We certainly recognize the need for water infrastructure,
for hydropower and for flood control projects, to protect
against drought. You mentioned stream gauges in Alaska. I
continue to be astounded at how woefully inadequate our ability
to just monitor or even get a baseline of what we have with our
water resources.
We have extraordinary water resources but when you have
development in a certain area, before you proceed with that you
need to have an understanding as to the adequacy of your water
sources.
In terms of water infrastructure and water management
issues, how big of a priority do you see this in this new role
that you have been nominated to fill?
Dr. Petty. Senator, thank you so much for the question, and
it is a priority.
The infrastructure aspect that we really need to be looking
at, even within this body, that even have had multiple hearings
here, have specifically talked about surface, subsurface
infrastructure, specifically with water, pertaining
specifically to Alaska. It's a huge challenge because you are
dealing with so much adverse, even conditions in climate that
absolutely destroys gauges.
And so, every year you're just dealing with the impact that
takes place there. It is important that we still figure out the
best way to gather that information and data, specifically, for
the State of Alaska.
I'm really confident in which is also under the U.S.
Geological purview, which is remote sensing capabilities. The
technology that continues to develop, obviously the importance
of Landsat which also comes to this Committee on these
different areas and issues.
I really look forward to working with you and your staff on
both sides of the aisle, specifically, on how we can continue
to better gather information and data for infrastructure,
infrastructure development as well with water, water quantity
and water quality.
The Chairman. I appreciate that, and I am pleased that you
are eager to take on this position. I think, when I look at the
issues that impact my state and the role that USGS plays
whether it is with mineral security that we mentioned or
hazards, we have our share of volcanoes and earthquakes and
landslides and wildfires and flooding. USGS does considerable
and important work there and then on the water side, again,
very, very important.
I appreciate you bringing your expertise to bear on this
and look forward to working with you.
Gentlemen? Senator Risch or Senator King, any further
comments?
Senator King.
Senator King. Dr. Capuano, I am going to say a sentence I
never thought I would say. You've got my vote by not answering
my question.
[Laughter.]
I think that was exactly right, to not answer the question
for the reasons the Chairman stated. And I thank her, I
associate myself with her comments. As long as you did not
answer that question to other people, which you have told me
you did not, I think that is an appropriate position for
someone who sits astride the data collection process.
What I have found and why I think your position is so
important, in my experience in public policy if we have a
shared understanding of the facts, the data, public policy is
fairly straightforward and usually easy to develop.
When we don't have a shared understanding of the data or
the facts, it's almost impossible. That is why what you are
doing is so important at this moment in time as we are trying
to make important, far reaching decisions about energy policy
in this country. I just can't emphasize enough how important
what you are doing is and your background. It looks to me like
you were preparing for this job all your life, you just didn't
know it.
I just hope you will remember what you are doing is really
important and, should there be efforts above you or from the
side to influence what questions are asked, what data is
presented, I hope you will resist them just as you did my
question this morning.
Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator King.
I think that sums it up quite appropriately.
Dr. Petty, Dr. Capuano, thank you, thank you both for being
here this morning. Thank you for your willingness to serve.
Again, as I mentioned in my opening, it is my intention to
try to move both of your names before the Committee very
quickly, hopefully so we can get things wrapped up before the
end of the year. Both of these positions are important and
necessary to Department of Interior as well as to the
Department of Energy.
Again, we thank you. With that the Committee stands
adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:19 a.m. the hearing was adjourned.]
APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
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