    [Senate Hearing 115-338]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 115-338

                         CAPUANO AND PETTY NOMINATIONS

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                         ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                       To

    CONSIDER THE NOMINATIONS OF DR. LINDA A. CAPUANO TO BE ADMINISTRATOR OF
     THE ENERGY INFORMATION ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY; AND DR.
         TIMOTHY R. PETTY TO BE AN ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR

                                   __________

                                DECEMBER 5, 2017

                                   __________

     [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                           Printed for the use of the
                   Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                  __________

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                   COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                        LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
    JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
    MIKE LEE, Utah                       BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
    JEFF FLAKE, Arizona                  DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
    STEVE DAINES, Montana                AL FRANKEN, Minnesota
    CORY GARDNER, Colorado               JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
    LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee           MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
    JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota            MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
    BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
    ROB PORTMAN, Ohio                    TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
    LUTHER STRANGE, Alabama              CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada

                          Brian Hughes, Staff Director
                    Patrick J. McCormick III, Chief Counsel
                     Kellie Donnelly, Deputy Chief Counsel
               Angela Becker-Dippmann, Democratic Staff Director
                    Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page
    Murkowski, Hon. Lisa, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Alaska....     1
    Cantwell, Hon. Maria, Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator from
      Washington.....................................................     2
    Risch, Hon. James E., a U.S. Senator from Idaho..................     3

                                   WITNESSES

    Petty, Dr. Timothy R., nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of
      the Inte-
      rior...........................................................    15
    Capuano, Dr. Linda A., nominated to be Administrator of the
      Energy Information Administration..............................    21

              ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

    Adams, Dr. Barbara:
        Letter for the Record........................................    57
    Cahill, Dr. Catherine F.:
        Letter for the Record........................................     5
    California Waterfowl Association and Delta Waterfowl:
        Letter for the Record........................................     6
    Cantwell, Hon. Maria:
        Opening Statement............................................     2
    Capuano, Dr. Linda A.:
        Opening Statement............................................    21
        Written Testimony............................................    22
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................    52
    Family Farm Alliance:
        Letter for the Record........................................     7
    Idaho Water Users Association, Inc.:
        Letter for the Record........................................     9
    Kempthorne, Hon. Dirk:
        Letter for the Record........................................    58
    Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
        Opening Statement............................................     1
    National Water Resources Association:
        Letter for the Record........................................    11
    Pacific Northwest Waterways Association:
        Letter for the Record........................................    59
    Petty, Dr. Timothy R.:
        Opening Statement............................................    15
        Written Testimony............................................    18
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................    42
    Public Lands Council and the National Cattlemen's Beef
      Association:
        Letter for the Record........................................    12
    Risch, Hon. James E.:
        Opening Statement............................................     3
    Tehama-Colusa Canal Authority:
        Letter for the Record........................................    13
    USGS Coalition:
        Letter for the Record........................................    60

                         CAPUANO AND PETTY NOMINATIONS

                                  ----------

                           TUESDAY, DECEMBER 5, 2017

                                           U.S. Senate,
                     Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:08 a.m. in
    Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Lisa
    Murkowski, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

               OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI,
                        U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA

        The Chairman. Good morning, welcome everyone.
        The Committee will come to order.
        We are here to consider two nominations this morning: Dr.
    Linda Capuano, to be the Administrator of the Energy
    Information Administration (EIA), and Dr. Timothy Petty, to be
    Assistant Secretary of the Interior for Water and Science.
        Dr. Petty is a friend. He is a trusted advisor to many of
    us. We have benefited from his expertise on both water and
    science issues for quite some time. He is Senator Risch's
    Deputy Legislative Director. He has also served as a
    Legislative Assistant covering many issues that come before
    this Committee, including the Western Water and USGS issues
    that will be part of his portfolio at the Department of the
    Interior (DOI).
        When Dr. Petty is confirmed it will actually mark his
    return to the Water and Science hallway at Interior. That is
    because he worked there during the Bush Administration as a
    Deputy Assistant Secretary and for a time as the Acting Head of
    the Office for which he is now nominated. Dr. Petty is very
    well qualified and, I think, an excellent choice for this
    position.
        I look forward to filling out Secretary Zinke's Water Team,
    and I recognize that having a team of professionals in place at
    Interior on these issues is important to many on our Committee,
    not to mention millions of Americans living out in the West.
        There are a lot of good things that we can say about Dr.
    Petty, but I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge his
    connection to my home state. He earned his Ph.D. from the
    University of Alaska, Fairbanks. Terrific. I am sure we can all
    agree on him and his qualifications, but certainly his choice
    of doctoral programs clearly demonstrates his excellent
    judgment.
        [Laughter.]
        We acknowledge that.
        We will also consider the nomination of Dr. Linda Capuano
    to be the Administrator of the Energy Information
    Administration at the Department of Energy. Dr. Capuano has
    broad experience in the energy and technology industries. She
    has held senior positions at a number of companies and co-
    founded a startup venture that commercialized ceramic
    superconductor technology. Dr. Capuano is currently a Fellow at
    Rice University in the Baker Institute for Public Policy Center
    for Energy Studies. She is also on the faculty of Rice's
    Graduate School of Business. Her distinct qualifications and
    robust work history make her a good fit to be at the helm of
    EIA as we move toward American energy dominance.
        I welcome you both to the Committee and thank you for your
    willingness to serve our nation.
        It would certainly be my hope and intention to move the
    nominations quickly, reporting you from the Committee,
    hopefully, as soon as next week. I would hope to confirm you
    both before Christmas, along with the other well-qualified
    Interior nominees who have been stuck on the Senate calendar
    now for several months, far longer than their predecessors in
    the previous Administration. We want to try to get these
    processed as soon and as expeditiously as we can.
        Again, thank you both for being with us this morning. We
    will look forward to your comments.
        I will now turn to Senator Cantwell for her comments this
    morning.

                   STATEMENT OF HON. MARIA CANTWELL,
                      U.S. SENATOR FROM WASHINGTON

        Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        The two nominations before the Committee this morning are
    important because Dr. Petty and Dr. Capuano, if confirmed, will
    represent and be responsible for agencies where we depend on
    sound science and reliable data.
        Public policy needs to be based on sound science and honest
    information. Policymakers can draw different conclusions from
    the facts, but they should never have the facts distorted or
    manipulated to justify policy choices.
        It is vitally important that the scientists and economists
    in the Department of the Interior and Department of Energy
    remain independent and the integrity of their work be protected
    from partisan ideology. That is why the two nominations we have
    before us this morning are so important.
        The Assistant Secretary of Water and Science is responsible
    for overseeing the Geological Survey which is one of the
    premier science agencies in the Federal Government. The
    Geological Survey provides the nation with science about water,
    energy, minerals and other natural resources, about floods,
    fires, earthquakes, volcanoes and other natural disasters,
    about the health of our ecosystems and our environment and
    about climate change. It is essential that this important work
    continue and that the scientists who do it are protected from
    the public interference and that their work inform policymakers
    rather than the other way around.
        In addition, the Assistant Secretary of Water and Science
    oversees the Bureau of Reclamation which grew out of the
    Geological Survey. It is the nation's largest water supplier
    and the second largest producer of hydroelectric power. It
    provides water to millions of our citizens and millions of
    acres of our farm land that produce much of our food.
        The job of the Administrator of Energy Information
    Administration is no less important. The Energy Information
    Administration was established in the Department of Energy to
    collect, analyze, evaluate and disseminate data about our
    energy resources and production, demand and the technology
    needed to manage our energy needs for the future. It also
    collects energy pricing data needed to protect consumers and
    ensure the integrity of competitive energy markets.
        Simply put, the two nominees before us this morning have
    each been nominated to lead premier, information-gathering
    agencies in their departments. I am pleased that both are
    highly qualified and have great professional experiences.
        I look forward to hearing from them on how their views on
    these agencies and their oversight will add to those comments I
    just mentioned on science and the independence and integrity of
    those agencies.
        I welcome both the nominees and their families and friends
    here today, and thank you for your willingness to serve.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cantwell.
        Senator Risch, I would invite you to provide comments
    regarding Dr. Petty.

                   STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES E. RISCH,
                        U.S. SENATOR FROM IDAHO

        Senator Risch. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
        It is bittersweet to do this, because Tim has been an
    integral member of our team.
        Tim and Elaine--Elaine is here and I am sure Tim will
    introduce Elaine when we start--have been important to my
    office for the almost decade that I have been here.
        Tim has had a distinguished career in public service and is
    exceptionally qualified to serve as the Department of the
    Interior's Assistant Secretary for Water and Science.
        To those of us, and there's a lot of us in various offices,
    that do know Tim, who he has worked with, we recognize he has a
    deep understanding of the complex nexus of water and science.
    In fact, when he was working on his doctorate, he used the
    Boise River--which is a river system that flows directly
    through the capital city and which has had a history of
    flooding over the years and has a dam system now on it--he used
    this particular river to study predictability of potential
    flooding and used it for part of his peer reviewed journals for
    his doctorate.
        Tim has also initiated and spearheaded the interest in many
    of the various Senate offices, even though he worked for me, of
    using geospatial mapping for a myriad of purposes, including
    mapping forest fires, fish and wildlife management, dam
    effectiveness and other resources. This geospatial mapping
    information has added to our already existing statistical
    analysis giving Senators a deeper and better understanding of
    their states.
        Prior to joining my office, Tim served as Acting Assistant
    Secretary and Deputy Assistant Secretary for Water and Science
    at the Department of the Interior under President George W.
    Bush, as you have noted Madam Chairman, and did an exceptional
    job there. He will be returning to that.
        Previously, Tim worked in the private sector for more than
    10 years in California and Indiana as a geologist and a
    hydrologist.
        He earned a Ph.D. from the University of Alaska and, Madam
    Chairman, I think you properly note that the University of
    Alaska has an outstanding program for the discipline that he is
    interested in.
        Working with Tim for these years, I am confident that he
    will approach each issue that comes before him with the same
    thoughtfulness and deliberate consideration that I have seen
    firsthand. Although I really hate to lose Tim, I mean that
    sincerely, I know that the Department of the Interior and the
    United States of America will benefit from his experience and
    expertise at the agency. I commend him to the Committee and to
    the Senate.
        Madam Chairman, I would like to have introduced for the
    record some communications from a number of organizations that
    are supporting this, the National Water Resources Association,
    Idaho Water Users Association, California Waterfowl, Delta
    Waterfowl, the Tehama-Colusa Canal Authority and the University
    of Alaska, Fairbanks, all of whom are supporting the
    nomination.
        [Laughter.]
        The Chairman. They will certainly be incorporated as part
    of the record, and we will put an asterisk next to the one from
    the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Risch. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Risch.
        [The information referred to follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. At this time, I would ask that you both rise.
    The rules of the Committee which apply to all nominees require
    that they be sworn in connection with their testimony. So now
    that you have risen, please raise your right hand.
        Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to
    give to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
    shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
        [Both answer, I do.]
        The Chairman. Before you begin your statements, you may go
    ahead and be seated, I will ask you three questions addressed
    to each nominee before the Committee.
        Will you be available to appear before this Committee and
    other Congressional committees to represent departmental
    positions and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
        [Both answer, yes.]
        The Chairman. Are you aware of any personal holdings,
    investments or interests that could constitute a conflict or
    create an appearance of such a conflict should you be confirmed
    and assume the office to which you have been nominated by the
    President?
        [Both answer, no.]
        The Chairman. Are you involved or do you have any assets
    held in blind trusts?
        [Both answer, no.]
        The Chairman. Okay. At this point in time I would ask each
    of you to provide the Committee a little bit of your background
    as well as the opportunity to introduce any family or strong
    supporters you may have with you. We certainly encourage that
    as well.
        Dr. Petty, we will begin with you, if you would like to
    proceed.

    STATEMENT OF DR. TIMOTHY R. PETTY, NOMINATED TO BE AN ASSISTANT
                       SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR

        Dr. Petty. Thank you Chairman Murkowski, Ranking Member
    Cantwell and obviously, the distinguished members of this
    Committee.
        I also want to thank you, Senator Risch, for your kind
    introduction, but more important, even your leadership and
    service to the State of Idaho and to the United States. You
    have been a real leader to me and to many.
        It is a distinct honor and a privilege to appear before you
    today as President Trump's nominee to serve the American people
    as Assistant Secretary for Water and Science at the Department
    of the Interior. I wish to thank Secretary Zinke for his
    support and confidence in this position.
        I would like to take a moment and acknowledge my wife,
    Elaine Petty, here behind me, and actually, one of my four
    siblings, Pam, who is also here and traveled from Indiana to be
    here with me today. I would also like to just mention and thank
    a lot of my friends and colleagues who are here with me as
    well, who have been a huge support in insight for me for these
    many years, who are also joining us today.
        So if I may, I was born and raised on a family farm in
    Grant County, Indiana. I am proud to be the son of Esther and
    Morris Petty. My father, a farmer and a large animal cattle
    breeder, was killed in an automobile accident when I was but a
    young individual, and my amazing mother raised five of us on
    the family farm.
        Working on the family farm, cultivating agricultural
    fields, harvesting fall crops, milking cows, bailing hay and
    watching the growth of life all around me was fundamental in
    preparation for my entire career. My mother raised all of us
    kids with strong family values, a solid work ethic, genuine
    integrity, a high commitment to education and a belief in God.
        I was inspired to study Earth science from a young age. Our
    farm was bordered by an important river and watershed in the
    northeastern part of Indiana and the water fascinated me. A
    stone quarry and gravel pit was also on our property which also
    created the love for geology at an early age as well.
        This interest led me to pursue a Bachelor of Science degree
    in Geoscience at Purdue University. I then worked in Indiana,
    California and abroad as a staff geologist and hydrogeologist,
    learning the trade of ground surveying, mapping, surface and
    sub-surface hydrology, earthquake investigation, groundwater
    contamination as well as water quality research.
        After working in the private sector, I joined the staff of
    the Senate Republican Conference, under two consecutive
    Chairmen, Senator Connie Mack of Florida as well as Senator
    Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania. During that time, I also earned
    a Master's Degree in Business from the University of Maryland
    to help hone my management and technology skills.
        While still working in the Legislative Branch, I was tapped
    to be the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Water and Science
    under and with Secretary Kempthorne.
        At DOI, I supported the leadership of the U.S. Geological
    Survey and the Bureau of Reclamation. This included providing
    oversight in policy and technical review of programs that are
    so vital, including stream gauge, irrigation water demand,
    ground monitoring, earthquakes, volcanoes, geospatial mapping,
    just to name a few.
        Also, I want to highlight that Secretary Kempthorne also
    designated me at that time at DOI to represent several groups
    including the Executive Principal to the Gulf Coast Hypoxia
    Task Force as well as the DOI principal review team leader for
    the Interagency Panel for Climate Change.
        At the end of the Bush Administration, I returned to the
    Legislative Branch to work for Senator Risch. Senator Risch was
    so kind to outline so many of those different areas, but while
    also working with him here in the Senate, I received my Ph.D.
    in Water Science and Policy at the School of Engineering and
    Mining at the University of Alaska.
        Together, I believe my experience and education has
    prepared me for this position to effectively serve the American
    people. I commit myself to provide the best-informed advice
    possible for Secretary Zinke. I will listen to and work with
    the Committee and Congress in these areas.
        Chairman Murkowski, Ranking Member Cantwell and members of
    the Committee, I thank you again for the consideration of my
    nomination. Throughout my time in the Senate, I have had the
    privilege of working with virtually every member on the
    Committee and more specifically, the staff, in a good faith
    effort to build consensus and workable solutions on these
    issues before us.
        If confirmed, I look forward to continuing those efforts as
    we pursue the common goal of securing American water and
    science future. I look forward to answering any of your
    questions.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Petty follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you, Dr. Petty.
        Dr. Capuano, welcome.

          STATEMENT OF DR. LINDA A. CAPUANO, NOMINATED TO BE
         ADMINISTRATOR OF THE ENERGY INFORMATION ADMINISTRATION

        Dr. Capuano. Thank you.
        Chairman Murkowski, Ranking Member Cantwell and
    distinguished members of the Committee, it's an honor and
    privilege to appear before you as the nominee for Administrator
    of the Energy Information Administration.
        I'm grateful to the President and to Secretary Perry for
    their confidence in trusting me with this important assignment.
        EIA is the statistical and analytical agency of the
    Department of Energy. It collects and disseminates a wide range
    of energy information covering energy production, stocks,
    demand, imports, exports, prices, technologies and emissions.
    As a researcher and analyst, I appreciate the importance of
    EIA's independent role in providing unbiased information and
    analysis to inform policymakers, markets and members of the
    public in making informed energy decisions across the public
    and private sector.
        If confirmed by the Senate, I will bring to the position
    the experience of a career that began with applying materials
    science and engineering to products in computer memory,
    semiconductors and power units and evolved to a focus on energy
    in the electricity and petroleum sectors.
        I've also spent my career planning for and managing change.
    The rapidity that which technology is changing, everything from
    the production of oil and gas to the integration of distributed
    generation including storage technologies and microgrids, is a
    challenge for EIA that I would willingly embrace.
        I understand the important role that all of our fuels play
    in delivering energy to consumers. I understand this Committee
    has had specific requests of EIA, an analysis of energy and
    financial markets, energy consumption surveys and expanded
    coverage of distributed generation.
        If confirmed, these programs would remain a priority and I
    would work closely with the Committee on these and other
    matters.
        Thank you and I look forward to answering your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Capuano follows:]
      [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you, Dr. Capuano.
        We will begin with five-minute rounds so we may have an
    opportunity for a second round for folks, if they are so
    inclined.
        Dr. Petty, let me start with you.
        I talk a lot in this Committee about the growing dependency
    that we have in this nation when it comes to minerals. When I
    say dependency, it is a dependency on outside sources.
        Last year the United States imported 100 percent of 20
    different minerals and at least 50 percent of another 30. I
    have likened it to the situation that we were in some years
    back when we were always talking about our reliance overseas
    for oil and how that made us vulnerable as a nation from an
    energy security perspective but also from a national security
    perspective.
        We are doing much better on the oil side but, in my view,
    we are going in the wrong direction when it comes to mineral
    security. Can you speak, just briefly, to the role that you
    believe that USGS can play in our efforts to lessen that
    dependency and whether you think that the agency, USGS,
    requires additional statutory authority that might be helpful
    or necessary to address this?
        Dr. Petty. Yes, thank you, Senator.
        Absolutely. Your opening comments, specifically on
    minerals, is really a critical aspect, both obviously, for
    Alaska in working these many years, even with the State of
    Idaho, critical minerals are in both of these locations.
        With USGS being able to be the principle gathering of that
    information on those specific type of minerals, it is critical
    that we give full support to the U.S. Geological Survey in
    these priorities.
        I've been here for many years of the briefings that have
    actually taken place in this hearing room and with the
    testimonies that the different experts from the U.S. Geological
    Survey, who have come to this specific Committee, highlighting
    the importance and gathering that information.
        It is up to, obviously, the Committee to continue giving
    direction and support to how the U.S. Geological Survey can
    support each one of the individual states and members, as well
    as this whole country in those important value of those
    minerals.
        So I look forward to working with you and your staff as we
    continue to pursue exactly how we need to get better data to
    this Committee, specifically, so that we can support the
    decisions that you'll need to make into the future.
        The Chairman. Thank you.
        Dr. Capuano, you mentioned the independent role of EIA and
    the fact that it is held out to be this unbiased arbiter, if
    you will, of data. I know this Committee certainly looks to the
    information that comes from EIA and we want to be able to rely
    on, not only its accuracy, but really, a very unbiased view.
        I think it is fair to say that when you have political and
    policy questions that come together, there can be great
    discussions about whether or not there is some bias that is
    brought to it; however, when we are looking at baseline
    predictions of future energy markets and how different
    regulatory environments or different legal scenarios might
    change that baseline, this job, working within EIA, becomes
    more than a little bit complicated.
        Basically what I am looking for this morning is the
    assurance that your work within EIA will be one that keeps us
    from the politicization or the bias that one can see. I believe
    the EIA needs to maintain that truly independent role, and I
    would like for you to speak to that.
        Dr. Capuano. If appointed to this position, I will bring
    the years of experience I have in technology training and
    sorting out issues around data versus opinion. And so, I am
    very committed to working with EIA to make sure that the data
    is high quality, that it's credible and that it is not biased.
    And I'll just do my best to work to do that.
        The Chairman. Thank you.
        Senator Cantwell.
        Senator Cantwell. Dr. Petty, welcome. I'm sure the
    Boilermakers are very proud of you.
        [Laughter.]
        Regarding the Yakima Basin project, I think you have
    probably had a chance, just because of its regional
    significance, to get familiar with that. It is very integrated
    in its planning. Do you support that project and making sure
    that it gets funded?
        Dr. Petty. Yes, Senator Cantwell, absolutely.
        I look forward to working, obviously, with you,
    specifically. I have been working on multiple years on that
    specific water project, working with your staff which is a
    critical part into the part three section of where we're at now
    in that specific project.
        As we move forward, the Bureau of Reclamation has been up
    here on numerous occasions to testify of what has been taking
    place there, interacting with Senator Risch specifically. What
    is important is how the State of Washington has actually
    stepped up in a huge way in this project as well, and I think
    there's some really good capabilities there for us to continue
    to develop and working with you on that and your staff.
        Senator Cantwell. So you support continued funding?
        Dr. Petty. Yes, continued with Reclamation's
    recommendations as well.
        Senator Cantwell. I think it is a great example of where we
    need to go on a problem that is not going away.
        Dr. Petty. Right.
        Senator Cantwell. By that I mean, I think it is a great
    example of where we need to go on other projects across the
    nation to more quickly expedite our response to drought
    conditions and things that we are facing.
        So----
        Dr. Petty. Yes.
        Senator Cantwell. I look forward to working with you on
    that.
        Dr. Capuano, on energy information, do you think EIA needs
    to analyze energy future contracts and commodity swaps and
    derivatives and how they affect the day-to-day oil price?
        Dr. Capuano. That's a really good question.
        It's a very complex issue and as I move, you know, if I am
    appointed to this position, I will spend time trying to
    understand the details of that, but again, our role in EIA
    would be to provide the data that would be necessary to be able
    to do that kind of analysis.
        Senator Cantwell. If you could take a look at that. This is
    language that we have passed out of the Senate and so, we think
    it is----
        Dr. Capuano. I commit to take a look at it.
        Senator Cantwell. Yes, that would be great, and you can
    give us an answer on it.
        It is very important that our energy markets are properly
    policed, and I know you mentioned distributed generation
    several times in your comments. That's great. We have
    definitely seen a lot of shenanigans in the energy market and,
    hopefully, we will continue to have a strong FERC that plays an
    oversight role, that polices them in a proper way. But at the
    same time, you need information and oftentimes the kinds of
    activities that we can see in manipulation you can see right in
    the energy data. That's why it is so important that you
    continue to play that oversight role in an important way.
        So, to me, you need to collect information on a fully
    integrated financial market so that you understand the impacts.
    We had this for a long discussion in the ENRON crisis about how
    much future contract price affected the spot price market as
    well.
        Of course, during that time period there was unbelievable
    manipulation and it consequently caused great havoc. Senator
    Risch and I were representing utilities and authorities that
    had to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in extra fees that
    we never should have paid and had to bail out California when
    we probably never should have had to. I don't think BPA ever
    got compensated for the amount of money that they ended up
    paying to California during the crisis. It wreaked havoc on the
    West Coast, and we never want to see it again. So having good
    policing on the energy information is critical to us.
        Dr. Capuano. I do look forward to having more conversations
    on that topic and understanding what EIA can provide that you
    could use then.
        Senator Cantwell. Great.
        We will get you the language that passed out of the Senate.
        Thank you so much.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cantwell.
        Senator Risch.
        Senator Risch. Senator Cantwell, thank you for reminding me
    how much fun it was to pay a lot in California.
        [Laughter.]
        Madam Chairman, I really do not have any questions since I
    have spent so much time with Tim, and I want to give everybody
    the opportunity to have questions.
        Tim, I wonder if you could take just a couple minutes and
    talk about some of the work that you have done on the Boise
    River that is so important to the people in the Treasure Valley
    in Idaho while you have been on my staff?
        Dr. Petty. Thank you, Senator, absolutely.
        It has been an amazing experience and privilege to look at
    and focus in on the Boise River, working with the Army Corps of
    Engineers and, obviously, the number of dams that the Bureau of
    Reclamation holds, specifically, on that dam.
        It's a combination of how do you balance the needs for the
    water irrigators in all the agricultural components around the
    Boise complex and the Boise project as well as balancing flood
    control. And that is so much of what the West is about. It's a
    high plain desert.
        Once you put water on that amazing soil it produces an
    incredible amount of productivity agriculturally, but yet at
    the same time, it's the capital city of our state, of the State
    of Idaho. That combination is always in a complex way where
    you're dealing with those years of even drought and years of
    trying to manage to hold those specific areas of periods of
    flood.
        That city is always on pins and needles during periods when
    there is significant spring rain, because you also have to rely
    on other agencies in that area of snow accumulation, how to
    manage it and how to work together. That is an amazing part of
    what both Governor Otter and yourself, with your years of
    experience, as you're working with all the agencies to really
    move forward in those specific focus on both water service as
    well as flood control which ties in both why USGS's water
    center there is in Boise but also the headquarters of the
    Northwest Bureau of Reclamations headquarters are there as well
    in Boise. So it really creates a nexus for a lot of important
    data and information so that both local, state and federal can
    work together.
        Senator Risch. Thanks, Tim.
        I yield back my time, Madam Chairman.
        The Chairman. Senator Hirono.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        This is to both Dr. Petty and Dr. Capuano.
        You have both been nominated to lead agencies where
    independent, scientific research is very critical to the
    mission of those agencies. Are both of you committed to
    scientific data to inform policy actions?
        Dr. Petty. Yes, I am.
        Dr. Capuano. Yes, I am.
        Senator Hirono. Again, to both of you, is climate change
    real? Yes or no? You are scientists. Is climate change real?
        Dr. Capuano. The EIA provides unbiased data to inform those
    kinds of discussions. They're very complex and the environment
    is very important. As the Administrator of EIA, if I am
    appointed, it would not be wise for me to take a position on
    any particular issue, but to make sure that accurate and
    credible data is provided so those issues can be debated and
    discussed.
        Senator Hirono. So you are saying that you sit here and you
    tell us that you do not know whether climate change is real or
    not?
        Dr. Capuano. No, I said that it would be inappropriate for
    me, if I was appointed as EIA Administrator, to take a position
    on such a highly debated topic.
        Senator Hirono. Do you acknowledge that most of the
    scientific community have said that climate change is real and,
    in fact, the Department of Defense has testified that climate
    change is what is a tremendous issue for them impacting our
    national security?
        Dr. Capuano. If you're asking if I'm aware of the debate,
    yes, I am very aware of the debate.
        Senator Hirono. And that most of the evidence in the
    scientific community says that climate change is real?
        Do you acknowledge----
        Dr. Capuano. Again, I'm aware that there is a lot of debate
    on that. There are those kinds of statements out there. But
    again, for me to take a position would introduce a bias that
    would hinder me as the Director of----
        Senator Hirono. Excuse me, you both said that you believe
    that science, scientific research, should inform. This is not
    about bias. We are relying on both of you to provide us with
    scientific data, not political positions, that would inform our
    decisions.
        Dr. Petty, what is your view? Is climate change real?
        Dr. Petty. Yes, Senator, I want to just make sure that it's
    clear that climate change is real.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you.
        Dr. Petty. And----
        Senator Hirono. Should our policies reflect that fact, that
    climate change is real?
        I will ask you, Dr. Petty.
        Dr. Petty. Yes, I think it's very important that we get the
    scientific data in the hands of decision-makers.
        Senator Hirono. You are both going to be working in an
    Administration where the President denies the reality of
    climate change and I would like to know, particularly from you,
    Dr. Petty, since you at least acknowledge that climate change
    is real, how would you react if you felt political pressure to
    suppress data or shape results to fit a political agenda, i.e.,
    that climate change is not real? Can you give me an example of
    when, in your public life, because you have worked for a number
    of political people as well as Administrations, when in your
    professional life you have stood up to political pressure to
    put forth what you believe is science?
        Dr. Petty. Yes, Senator, and thank you for that question.
        I think it's important that we realize that in the science
    community and as a scientist and looking at peer review that
    it's important that the science is clearly communicated in that
    area of resources that it then can be provided to the specific
    decision-makers.
        So----
        Senator Hirono. Can you describe a time in your public life
    or a time that you have worked in various political offices
    where you have stood up to political pressure? Because that is
    part of your doctoral research, scientific knowledge into
    political action. You have a commitment to science to inform
    our policy decisions. When have you stood up to political
    pressure? Can you describe a time when that happened with you?
        Dr. Petty. I can give you some examples of where I have
    seen and worked with it specifically, working at the University
    of Alaska, Fairbanks, specifically on the Tanana River which
    has been part of my research where you're looking at different
    years at different times there is impact that takes place. As
    you build on those different research areas you're always
    challenged with those different scientific review.
        And so, for me to be able to respond back to different
    examples is in the science community there are different
    reports that come out and you have to interact with those
    science communities because the scientific method and science
    of that is important to facilitate.
        Senator Hirono. Are you saying that you have always stood
    up to political pressure that your position is that you stand
    by your scientific research and that is what you intend to do
    with this Administration?
        Dr. Petty. I would very much want to commit to you that
    it's important that the science community is also heard and
    that their research that they're putting forward is also heard
    on both communities that are supporting in those different
    research areas.
        Senator Hirono. Well, with this Administration your voice
    is going to be very, very important and it's going to need to
    be very loud. I look forward, should you be confirmed, to hear
    what you have to say.
        Dr. Petty. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you very much. I will have further
    questions for our witnesses.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Hirono.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Senator Gardner.
        Senator Gardner. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        And thank you to Dr. Capuano and Dr. Petty for your
    service. Congratulations on your appointments. Thank you for
    being here today.
        Dr. Petty, I have to admit, while I can forgive your
    association with Senator Risch and the work in his office, I do
    not know that I can ever forgive any association of water work
    in California. As a Coloradan, I am very nervous about that,
    so--
        [Laughter.]
        But thank you for your willingness to serve.
        Dr. Capuano, of course, the University of Colorado in your
    background. It is great to see a fellow University of Colorado
    Buffalo before the Committee.
        So, thank you both.
        In your testimony you talked about the work of the Bureau
    of Reclamation. Obviously something very important to us in the
    West, particularly in Colorado, when it comes to water storage
    and delivery.
        I want to talk a little bit about how vitally important a
    project the Arkansas--the Bureau of Reclamation has in Colorado
    called the Arkansas Valley Conduit affecting about 50,000 of my
    constituents. This is a 130-mile pipeline with spurs that would
    serve as many as 40 communities, over 50,000 people East of
    Pueblo, Colorado. It is a project that would deliver filtered
    water to an area that is facing economic challenges and
    certainly water quality challenges. We have to make sure that
    we are supplementing existing water supplies because of
    increasing compliance issues from the federal and state
    governments regarding salinity, radionuclide contaminations and
    fresh groundwater availability.
        This project, the Arkansas Valley Conduit, was authorized
    by Congress in 1962. President Kennedy actually came to Pueblo,
    Colorado, as part of this effort. It was not until 2009 where
    we changed some of the legislation surrounding the Arkansas
    Valley Conduit and the cost share agreements to a 65/35 split
    that allowed this project to move forward.
        In 2017, Reclamation, as well as the Southeast Colorado
    Water Conservancy District, along with Pueblo Water, began
    discussions about a plan that would help change the layout of
    the pipeline design, a new concept that they came up with that
    would dramatically decrease the cost of the project. It is
    basically moving the pipeline a little bit further down the way
    so that they could hook up in to Pueblo Water and cut off some
    of the distance the pipeline would be required to go.
        So, in instances like this where project sponsors
    successfully pitches a partnership that successfully reduces
    and drastically reduces the timeline of the cost of the
    project, can I get your commitment that Reclamation will give
    projects like the Arkansas Valley Conduit fair consideration
    that it will be done, that you will do everything you can to
    make sure the regulatory administrative processes do not
    endlessly bog down projects like this and that you will do what
    you can to make the case on the value and the advanced timeline
    at OMB?
        Dr. Petty. Yes, Senator, absolutely.
        I want to make sure that it's clear. I was here in the
    hearings when you asked the same exact questions with Secretary
    Zinke as well as the nomination and now confirmed Deputy
    Secretary Bernhardt. And so, both of them have made sure that
    you and your staff will be dealing with those specifically
    individually.
        I think Secretary Zinke has put together a great team in
    the water and science hallway, working with Commissioner Burman
    on these specific issues. We look forward to, obviously,
    working with you and your staff, specifically, to make sure
    that we can bring the full support of Reclamation into those
    specific areas and projects.
        Senator Gardner. Thank you.
        Clean, abundant, affordable water, obviously a promise
    Congress made in 1962. I would like to see that move from----
        Dr. Petty. Absolutely.
        Senator Gardner. ----pipe dream to pipeline and make sure
    we get this done.
        The other issue I want to talk to you about, Dr. Petty, is
    in August 2015, as you know, EPA triggered a three-million-
    gallon spill of acid mine drainage into the Animas River in
    Southwestern Colorado. This area of Colorado is now a superfund
    site. EPA is responsible for remediation of the mines within
    the boundaries of the superfund listing.
        There are over 160,000 inactive or abandoned mines
    throughout the country and many in the West. If you look at the
    Bureau of Land Management within the Department of Interior,
    48,000 inactive or abandoned mine sites exists. The Forest
    Service has over 40,000 inactive, abandoned mines on land that
    it manages. You can imagine, if just 10 percent of these were
    creating environmental damage or harm to the environment, the
    sort of impact that that would have and the enormity of the
    challenge that we face.
        If you go back to the 106th Congress, you can start to see
    legislation that has been introduced dealing with Good
    Samaritan legislation. Senator Domenici, Senators Salazar,
    Allard, Udall, and a number of others, Ben Nighthorse Campbell,
    have worked on Good Samaritan legislation to address these
    inactive and abandoned mine sites.
        During the 109th Congress, this Committee reported out a
    bill that was co-sponsored by Senator Allard and Senator
    Salazar.
        Given your expertise in hydrology, the work that you will
    be doing at Interior, you are going to hold some Interior
    Department oversight ability and be over our land management
    agencies as well.
        Can I ask your opinion of Good Samaritan legislation, where
    you think it goes and what we need to do?
        Dr. Petty. Yes, Senator, another great point.
        Working with that--I know you have a long history, even
    with Leadville and these different areas that specifically have
    mine issues that actually translate right into specific areas
    of water. So I look forward to specifically working with you on
    this 2015 impact that, obviously, has impacted multiple
    downriver communities because those are the direct impacts that
    come out of that.
        Just based on our time and our effort, I really do look
    forward to sitting down with you, specifically, your staff,
    which I've been working with for multiple years now on how we
    can better work together and work with the Committee on EPW on
    behalf of Reclamation on these specific issues.
        Senator Gardner. Great. Thanks, Dr. Petty, Dr. Capuano.
    Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Gardner.
        Senator Heinrich.
        Senator Heinrich. Let me start, Dr. Petty, by thanking you
    for your candid answer with regard to climate change science.
        Dr. Capuano, is gravity real?
        Dr. Capuano. Pardon? I didn't hear that.
        Senator Heinrich. Is gravity real? I mean, it is just a
    theory.
        [Laughter.]
        Dr. Capuano. Yes. Gravity is real. Yes.
        Senator Heinrich. We can't see it, but the data would
    suggest it is real.
        Dr. Capuano. Yes.
        Senator Heinrich. What does the preponderance of the data
    suggest with regard to climate change?
        Dr. Capuano. So, the EIA does present for the data around
    greenhouse gas emissions that is used to debate on both sides
    of that, that issue. And we all know that it is very important
    to protect the environment and that we need to work toward
    that.
        But again, putting me into the position of taking a side on
    such a hotly debated issue would introduce bias as a leader of
    the EIA. And so, as an administrator I would have to refrain
    from answering that question.
        Senator Heinrich. Well, let's talk about bias then.
        Dr. Capuano. Yes, okay.
        Senator Heinrich. Because the EIA has consistently and,
    actually, spectacularly underestimated growth in clean energy
    as well as growth in the gas sector.
        For example, solar generating capacity was 4,813 percent
    more in 2016 than the EIA predicted in 2006. As another
    example, EIA predicted that 6.5 gigawatts of new wind
    generating capacity would be installed between 2017 and 2030.
    We are already installing more than that every single year.
        The data and EIA's bias seem to have a chasm between them.
    Why do you think that is and what do you intend to do about it?
        Dr. Capuano. The EIA is committed to collecting and
    presenting high-quality, credible data. In the modeling, the
    modeling activities and the data that's used in the models and
    the assumptions are transparent so that as you compare the
    trends with the actual data you can see what's driving the
    deviation.
        As a technologist and with the years of experience that
    I've had, I am very committed to making sure that the data
    continues to be high quality, that accuracy is increased and
    that assumptions are improved. I'm highly committed to that.
    Independent of what the results are, meaning independent of
    what conclusion they lead you to, it is very important that the
    data quality continues to improve.
        Senator Heinrich. Do you think there is a problem at EIA,
    assuming that things will continue where they are rather than
    looking at where the trend lines are headed?
        Dr. Capuano. Allow me to separate that question.
        There are assumptions in the models that are used in order
    to create scenarios and are used in order to be the foundations
    of the trends.
        Senator Heinrich. I understand.
        Dr. Capuano. Those assumptions are always being looked at
    and always are--there is always room to correct those and
    improve those and look forward to conversations to do that.
        Those assumptions on the data that's entered into the model
    will lead to results. I don't see--I'm having difficulty with
    the discussion of where's the bias has entered--is inserted
    into that.
        Senator Heinrich. Well, junk in, junk out, right? I mean,
    that is what we all learn in school.
        Dr. Capuano. Well, the solution----
        Senator Heinrich. And so, if you get the assumptions
    spectacularly wrong, you will get data out the other end or a
    result out the other end that does not match up with the data
    in a sometimes-spectacular fashion. And I think garbage in,
    garbage out, as my----
        Dr. Capuano. Like quality in, quality out and the data
    that's collected by EIA is----
        Senator Heinrich. Do you think those predictions, the
    results that EIA has given to all of us, have been high-quality
    predictions?
        Dr. Capuano. I believe that the information that EIA gives
    you is high quality and it is credible and that the sources are
    identified and that they can be improved continuously as the
    source of data is improved.
        Senator Heinrich. That did not sound like a yes or no
    answer.
        Dr. Capuano. So, excuse me.
        Senator Heinrich. Yes.
        Dr. Capuano. If you would mind re-asking the question, I
    could probably do a yes or no, please.
        Senator Heinrich. Do you think the quality of the
    predictions that EIA has made to this Committee and to the
    public have produced good results, results that were----
        Dr. Capuano. EIA does not make predictions. What EIA does
    is it takes data and it models and it shows trends. I believe
    those are high quality based upon the available information.
        Senator Heinrich. Dr. Petty, you are so lucky today. I am
    out of time, so I am going to have to save all of my questions
    for you for the record.
        But thank you once again for being able to answer a
    question in a straightforward way.
        Dr. Petty. Thank you, Senator. I look forward to actually
    getting some time with you and your staff in the future.
        Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
        Senator Flake.
        Senator Flake. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you both
    for your willingness to serve.
        Yes, Dr. Petty, you have a lot of experience, obviously at
    DOI, that will come in handy in this position because you have
    the Bureau of Reclamation within your purview. I am interested
    to know your views on Colorado River water. I am glad Corey
    left the building here.
        [Laughter.]
        Can you describe your vision for the Bureau in helping
    craft Colorado River policy, particularly how you see the
    Bureau or interacting with basin state representatives?
        Dr. Petty. Yes.
        Well, Senator, thank you so much. I think that is a very
    important question, obviously, that you're working on, you have
    been working on. You've been working on it for many, many
    years. You have fabulous staff that understand this question,
    just dealing with the drought contingency that you're working
    through, trying to cooperate, obviously, building all the share
    takers. And also, obviously the new commissioner with Brenda
    Burman coming from your state. I think that the team that we've
    really put together, I look forward to being confirmed so that
    we can get specifically on your areas that we can work with you
    on how we're going to lay out, specifically, it has already
    been in the works with your staff and with the state in these
    specific areas.
        Senator Flake. Thank you.
        Specifically, with outstanding water rights claims, fixing
    these, it's obviously beneficial for all water users, not just
    tribes. The agency you will help supervise will play an
    important role here.
        Do you want to talk about the Bureau and USGS as it relates
    to Indian Water Settlements?
        Dr. Petty. Yes, Senator.
        It's very important that we continue to work through this
    Committee, specifically.
        A perfect example, obviously, for the State of Idaho as
    well, which we've been working on for multiple years with the
    success that we've had working with the Nez Perce tribe, but
    then the Coeur d'Alene as well as the Shoshone-Bannock tribes
    with water settlements are really important that we've been
    working on for years.
        I look forward to working, obviously, again, with your
    staff who fully understand the complexity of your state because
    I really do believe it becomes even specific region-by-region
    and area-by-area that you're trying to work through each of
    those water settlements on. So, I look forward to working with
    you, Indian Affairs at DOI, to work those through.
        Senator Flake. Great.
        There are a number of USGS institutions in Arizona. They do
    important work in research and data collection to support water
    management. These include the Grand Canyon Monitoring and
    Research Center in Flagstaff and the Arizona Water Science
    Center in Tucson. Can you give some sense of how you see the
    USGS's role in continuing to provide this kind of research and
    data collection?
        Dr. Petty. Yes, you know, Senator, there's almost 300 U.S.
    Geological Survey staff in your state that specifically works
    on very complex areas, obviously, the Grand Canyon, the Glen
    Canyon Dam, that has been a partnership with Bureau of
    Reclamation and USGS for years on studying everything from
    invasives to sediment transport to flora and fauna within those
    different regions as well as, obviously, the ESA impacts that
    are there.
        Those are a combination of working together to really build
    the science that comes back to that information for U.S.
    policymakers so people here on the Hill can move forward on
    what is the next step in the future of where we can go in
    putting in priorities for those specific areas.
        Senator Flake. Thank you so much.
        Thank you, Madam Chair.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Flake.
        Senator Franken.
        Senator Franken. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        I am going to just return for a second to Senator
    Heinrich's question.
        The EIA releases annual projections of long-term domestic
    energy consumption and generation, its annual energy outlook.
    Now over the last few years a range of studies suggest that EIA
    has consistently overestimated oil and gas consumption and, as
    Senator Heinrich said, vastly underestimated the growth of
    renewables, especially distributed solar.
        A study just last week from MIT reiterated the concerns
    surrounding the fossil fuel projections. The EIA responded to
    such criticisms in late 2016, but the agency has not indicated
    yet how it plans to address these inaccuracies pertaining to
    renewables.
        I guess the question, more specifically than what Senator
    Heinrich asked, is will you commit to working to improve the
    modeling when it comes to renewable energy?
        Dr. Capuano. So, if I am appointed I will--this is a very
    hot issue. It is a very important issue, and I'm very aware of
    that. It has big economic implications for the United States
    and many people rely on the EIA data in order to do their
    analyses and make decisions.
        Senator Franken. Absolutely. I remember the propane----
        Dr. Capuano. Absolutely.
        Senator Franken. ----crisis.
        Dr. Capuano. Absolutely.
        Senator Franken. Which, you know, partly, and listen, you
    get things wrong sometimes.
        Dr. Capuano. Yes.
        Senator Franken. And you get things right.
        Dr. Capuano. Yes.
        Senator Franken. But on this one we are getting it wrong,
    consistently.
        Dr. Capuano. Yes. On a theoretical level improving
    assumptions, improving the types of data that go into the
    models, improving the models, are theoretical ways to improve
    the accuracy relative to actuals.
        I can commit, firmly, that if appointed to this position
    that I would be working very closely with EIA staff to
    understand the deviations and how to reduce that and how to
    improve it.
        I look forward to any kind of conversations that can help
    inform us on changes that might make the models more, track
    more with what the actuals are.
        Senator Franken. Well, thank you for committing to that
    because, of note, the scenarios in the Annual Energy Outlook
    focus on high and low fossil fuel resources and technological
    change, but there is no scenario focusing on high renewable
    growth.
        Do you agree that a scenario focusing on the quickly
    changing landscape of renewables could be a way to address some
    of these issues?
        Dr. Capuano. Yes, I'll acknowledge that looking hard at the
    scenarios and their effect on being able to inform people so
    that they can do the analysis that needs to be done is really
    important. And I commit to take a look at that.
        Again, but I'm not there yet. I don't know the details so I
    can't----
        Senator Franken. Okay, alright.
        In Senator Risch's Subcommittee later this afternoon we are
    going to be talking about energy storage and energy storage is
    becoming more pervasive around the world, but it is not well
    represented in the modeling done by EIA.
        In the 2017 Annual Energy Outlook the EIA committed to
    continuing to update and refine projections of technological
    change. Work that is especially important for energy storage as
    it becomes more ubiquitous and increasingly grid-connected. In
    particular, EIA committed to improving the representation of
    energy storage in future modeling work. Will you make model
    improvements a priority for energy, especially for energy
    storage?
        Dr. Capuano. Again, not being there, not being in the
    position yet, I am aware that the EIA is working on their
    strategy, renewing their strategy and I look forward to working
    with the EIA team and understanding their thoughts on this and
    their commitments. I will pay special attention to these issues
    of storage.
        Senator Franken. Because storage is a real game changer.
        Dr. Capuano. I understand, and I pay a lot of attention to
    those conversations.
        Senator Franken. Okay.
        Dr. Capuano. As a citizen, I do agree.
        Senator Franken. Dr. Petty, thank you for your answer on
    the USGS's on making a commitment to not subverting scientific
    analyses. I know that Senator Hirono asked you that, and thank
    you for your answer.
        Madam Chair.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Franken.
        Senator King.
        Senator King. Thank you.
        Mr. Petty, can you commit that you will put aside anything
    you learned from Senator Risch when you were going through
    this?
        [Laughter.]
        Ms. Capuano, you were interviewed for this job. You went
    through a process, I presume. Did anyone ever ask you in that
    process your views on climate change?
        Dr. Capuano. I get asked that a lot.
        Senator King. Were you asked that question in the process
    of your being proposed for this position?
        Dr. Capuano. Actually, I don't--it may have come up. I'm
    sorry, I just, I'm trying to remember all the conversations
    I've had. It may have come up. If it did come up, I did not
    express an opinion on it.
        Senator King. Were you asked any questions about fossil
    fuels and the importance of fossil fuels to our energy future?
        Dr. Capuano. Well, I guess I would say that in the process
    of moving through the nomination and the potential appointment
    process, people have helped me and guided me through that
    process. I'm having trouble with the, you know, saying have I
    been asked my position on that, that was not the discussions
    around the process, so.
        Senator King. So no one in the process said, what are your
    views on climate change, or I think you said maybe they did,
    but you would have said I have no opinion? Seriously?
        Dr. Capuano. Okay.
        I'm trying to, you know, this process has gone on since
    February, so I'm trying to remember all the conversations
    honestly. The topics come up but the discussion has really been
    on what needs to be done in order to get confirmed and in order
    to complete the process.
        Senator King. But before you were being guided as to how to
    complete the process, somebody interviewed you to decide if you
    were the right candidate for this job.
        Dr. Capuano. I would say that the, you know, in the
    volunteering to serve, it's not an interview for a position.
        When you volunteer to serve during an Administration,
    there's discussions around your qualifications and discussions
    around your desire to have an impact, but I have not had
    discussions around what my position is and how that would
    relate to how I would execute the position, if I was appointed.
        Senator King. So is it fair to say that your testimony is
    that no one, when they were deciding whether to appoint you to
    this job, inquired about your position on climate change? Is
    that accurate?
        Dr. Capuano. No, I said that there have--that they may have
    inquired and I declined to take a position.
        Senator King. What is your position?
        Dr. Capuano. It would be inappropriate for me in, you know,
    in taking a position--if I complete this appointment to be EIA
    Administrator, if I'm successfully appointed to this position,
    it would be inappropriate for me to state a position on climate
    change.
        The data, you know, the data are available. EIA provides
    the data. In fact, it has the high majority of the greenhouse
    gas data that is used on both sides of the argument comes from
    EIA.
        Senator King. That is why I am asking you these questions.
        Dr. Capuano. Yes.
        However, I don't, you know, providing the data and drawing
    the conclusion, I leave the conclusions to the people that want
    to set policy or have a debate on the issue. If I enter the
    debate, it taints my independence and I cannot present myself
    as unbiased----
        Senator King. So your testimony is you have not entered
    this debate at all.
        Dr. Capuano. No, my--I have avoided this--no----
        Senator King. You are avoiding telling me, but my question
    is have you told anyone else in order to gain this----
        Dr. Capuano. No, I have not told anyone my position on
    climate change in order to gain the appointment. I can say that
    with confidence.
        Senator King. Well, that gets to the second question which
    is really, I consider your job one of the most important in the
    Federal Government because it is all about data and we cannot
    make good policy unless we have good data.
        I hope that your position which you have stated, which I am
    not necessarily disagreeing with, means that you will be
    absolutely straight on the data and that what worries me is
    that people whose job it is to present information data such as
    yourself or the head of the EIA not be tainted by the political
    desires of the people who you are reporting to.
        Give me your commitment on that.
        Dr. Capuano. You have my commitment that I will follow the
    data and I will--I have been fortunate not to have been
    pressured to take a position and I would not--and I do not
    intend to be pressured to take a position.
        Senator King. Thank you.
        Thank you, Madam Chair.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator King.
        Dr. Capuano, I think you can tell from the questions, the
    inquiries here that each of us wants to see that the EIA
    continues to play that role of a very unbiased, a very much
    independent agency, and I hope that is where my colleagues are
    trying to go with this.
        I appreciate that because I do think if you were to say
    that ``this is my position,'' rightly or wrongly, there will be
    others in the future that will say, aha, that conclusion was
    reached through EIA because it has an Administrator who has
    taken such a position.
        It is a difficult place for you to walk because, I think,
    around here it is important that we be able to articulate where
    we come from on these issues. But again, you are being asked to
    head an agency that is, is a pretty analytical agency. And if
    it is not analytical and weighing evenly all the data that
    comes in, I do appreciate the recognition though that it is
    important that that data be good, solid, unbiased and, you
    know, not the garbage in, garbage out, but the good in, good
    out.
        So, let me ask you about the, just the data collection.
    There's an incredible amount that is collected out there. This
    is the world of big data today.
        But having said that, there comes a point where the EIA
    does not necessarily need to be expanding the amount of data
    that it collects. You have overlapping data requirements that
    come to other agencies whether it is other agencies within DOE
    or FERC, CFTC, the private sector also provides data about
    energy facilities and markets. You have some overlap that could
    create inefficiencies, that could create burdens.
        Can you speak just a little bit to the effort that I think
    is important to avoid duplicative, or perhaps, overlapping, but
    also to making sure that as we seek to have as much data as we
    need, we're not expanding it so far that perhaps we have
    additional cyber risks, intrusions into privacy. There is a
    border here.
        Dr. Capuano. So I can say that if I am appointed to this
    position that one of the first actions I would take is going
    through the strategic plan and understanding the priority of
    the objectives and then looking at how to achieve the
    objectives in the most efficient and effective way with the
    budget that we have. And so, while I don't know the details
    because I'm not there yet, that is the commitment I can make.
        The Chairman. Are you concerned when we talk about
    cybersecurity and these risks, can you speak to that aspect of
    it?
        Dr. Capuano. I am very concerned, but again, I'm not in a
    position to talk about the details because I have not, I don't
    know these details yet because I'm not part of EIA.
        I consider it a very important topic and it's something
    that we all know that we need to be working to improve and
    secure ourselves and that the EIA data, I am sure, has a role
    in that.
        And so, I really do look forward to going through the
    strategic plan and setting the priorities and looking for the
    balances that are required. And we all know there's never
    enough money to accomplish everything.
        Making very well thought out decisions on priorities and
    effectiveness is really going to be an important part of this
    role.
        The Chairman. We talk a lot in this Committee about
    cybersecurity. It is important on a host of different levels,
    but recognizing just the volume of data that EIA collects, some
    relating to critical infrastructure, other relating to data
    critical to well-functioning markets, I think it is important
    that cybersecurity be a high priority issue within the EIA and
    making sure that our critical infrastructure within the energy
    space is not compromised.
        Mr. Petty, I have one last question for you here relating
    to water infrastructure.
        We certainly recognize the need for water infrastructure,
    for hydropower and for flood control projects, to protect
    against drought. You mentioned stream gauges in Alaska. I
    continue to be astounded at how woefully inadequate our ability
    to just monitor or even get a baseline of what we have with our
    water resources.
        We have extraordinary water resources but when you have
    development in a certain area, before you proceed with that you
    need to have an understanding as to the adequacy of your water
    sources.
        In terms of water infrastructure and water management
    issues, how big of a priority do you see this in this new role
    that you have been nominated to fill?
        Dr. Petty. Senator, thank you so much for the question, and
    it is a priority.
        The infrastructure aspect that we really need to be looking
    at, even within this body, that even have had multiple hearings
    here, have specifically talked about surface, subsurface
    infrastructure, specifically with water, pertaining
    specifically to Alaska. It's a huge challenge because you are
    dealing with so much adverse, even conditions in climate that
    absolutely destroys gauges.
        And so, every year you're just dealing with the impact that
    takes place there. It is important that we still figure out the
    best way to gather that information and data, specifically, for
    the State of Alaska.
        I'm really confident in which is also under the U.S.
    Geological purview, which is remote sensing capabilities. The
    technology that continues to develop, obviously the importance
    of Landsat which also comes to this Committee on these
    different areas and issues.
        I really look forward to working with you and your staff on
    both sides of the aisle, specifically, on how we can continue
    to better gather information and data for infrastructure,
    infrastructure development as well with water, water quantity
    and water quality.
        The Chairman. I appreciate that, and I am pleased that you
    are eager to take on this position. I think, when I look at the
    issues that impact my state and the role that USGS plays
    whether it is with mineral security that we mentioned or
    hazards, we have our share of volcanoes and earthquakes and
    landslides and wildfires and flooding. USGS does considerable
    and important work there and then on the water side, again,
    very, very important.
        I appreciate you bringing your expertise to bear on this
    and look forward to working with you.
        Gentlemen? Senator Risch or Senator King, any further
    comments?
        Senator King.
        Senator King. Dr. Capuano, I am going to say a sentence I
    never thought I would say. You've got my vote by not answering
    my question.
        [Laughter.]
        I think that was exactly right, to not answer the question
    for the reasons the Chairman stated. And I thank her, I
    associate myself with her comments. As long as you did not
    answer that question to other people, which you have told me
    you did not, I think that is an appropriate position for
    someone who sits astride the data collection process.
        What I have found and why I think your position is so
    important, in my experience in public policy if we have a
    shared understanding of the facts, the data, public policy is
    fairly straightforward and usually easy to develop.
        When we don't have a shared understanding of the data or
    the facts, it's almost impossible. That is why what you are
    doing is so important at this moment in time as we are trying
    to make important, far reaching decisions about energy policy
    in this country. I just can't emphasize enough how important
    what you are doing is and your background. It looks to me like
    you were preparing for this job all your life, you just didn't
    know it.
        I just hope you will remember what you are doing is really
    important and, should there be efforts above you or from the
    side to influence what questions are asked, what data is
    presented, I hope you will resist them just as you did my
    question this morning.
        Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator King.
        I think that sums it up quite appropriately.
        Dr. Petty, Dr. Capuano, thank you, thank you both for being
    here this morning. Thank you for your willingness to serve.
        Again, as I mentioned in my opening, it is my intention to
    try to move both of your names before the Committee very
    quickly, hopefully so we can get things wrapped up before the
    end of the year. Both of these positions are important and
    necessary to Department of Interior as well as to the
    Department of Energy.
        Again, we thank you. With that the Committee stands
    adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 11:19 a.m. the hearing was adjourned.]

                          APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

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