[Senate Hearing 115-256]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 115-256
PENDING NOMINATIONS OF BROUILLETTE, CHATTERJEE AND POWELSON
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON
THE NOMINATIONS OF THE HONORABLE DAN R. BROUILLETTE TO BE DEPUTY
SECRETARY OF ENERGY AND NEIL CHATTERJEE AND THE HONORABLE ROBERT F.
POWELSON TO BE MEMBERS OF THE FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION
__________
MAY 25, 2017
__________
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Printed for the use of the
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
16-074 WASHINGTON : 2018
COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho RON WYDEN, Oregon
MIKE LEE, Utah BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
JEFF FLAKE, Arizona DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
STEVE DAINES, Montana AL FRANKEN, Minnesota
CORY GARDNER, Colorado JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
ROB PORTMAN, Ohio TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
LUTHER STRANGE, Alabama CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
Colin Hayes, Staff Director
Patrick J. McCormick III, Chief Counsel
Kellie Donnelly, Deputy Chief Counsel
Angela Becker-Dippmann, Democratic Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa, Chairman and a U.S. Senator from Alaska.... 1
Toomey, Hon. Patrick J., a U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania........ 5
McConnell, Hon. Mitch, a U.S. Senator from Kentucky.............. 6
Franken, Hon. Al, a U.S. Senator from Minnesota.................. 9
Cornyn, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from Texas..................... 11
WITNESSES
Brouillette, Hon. Dan R., nominated to be Deputy Secretary of
Energy......................................................... 13
Chatterjee, Neil, nominated to be a Member of the Federal Energy
Regulatory Commission.......................................... 18
Powelson, Hon. Robert F., nominated to be a Member of the Federal
Energy Regulatory Commission................................... 22
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Advanced Energy Economy:
Statement for the Record..................................... 204
Air Conditioning, Heating and Refrigeration Institute, et al.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 207
Brouillette, Hon. Dan R.:
Opening Statement............................................ 13
Written Testimony............................................ 16
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 56
Cantwell, Hon. Maria:
Written Statement............................................ 2
Chatterjee, Neil:
Opening Statement............................................ 18
Written Testimony............................................ 20
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 106
Cornyn, Hon. John:
Opening Statement............................................ 11
Daines, Hon. Steve:
Statement for the Record..................................... 208
Energy Equipment & Infrastructure Alliance:
Letter for the Record........................................ 209
EnerNOC, Inc.:
Letter for the Record........................................ 211
Franken, Hon. Al:
Opening Statement............................................ 9
Hoffman, Patricia A., U.S. Department of Energy:
Letter dated May 19, 2017 to Dr. Robert Weisenmiller, Chair
of the California Energy Commission........................ 212
Laborers' International Union of North America:
Letter for the Record........................................ 214
National Association of Manufacturers:
Letter for the Record........................................ 216
McConnell, Hon. Mitch:
Opening Statement............................................ 6
Murkowski, Hon. Lisa:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
Powelson, Hon. Robert F.:
Opening Statement............................................ 22
Written Testimony............................................ 25
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 153
SoCalGas:
Letter dated April 28, 2017 to Mr. Stephen Berberich, Mr.
Michael
Picker, and Mr. Robert Weisenmiller........................ 218
Toomey, Hon. Patrick J.:
Opening Statement............................................ 5
Utilities Technology Council:
Letter for the Record........................................ 222
PENDING NOMINATIONS OF BROUILLETTE, CHATTERJEE AND POWELSON
----------
THURSDAY, MAY 25, 2017
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:45 a.m. in Room
SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Lisa Murkowski,
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI, U.S. SENATOR FROM
ALASKA
The Chairman. Good morning. We will call the Committee to
order.
It should be noted for the record that sitting next to me
this morning is not my Ranking Member, Senator Cantwell, but I
am joined this morning by Senator Franken, who will be filling
in for Senator Cantwell, who is a little bit under the weather
this morning. I know she wanted to be here and she has a
statement that she will submit as part of the record.
[The information referred to follows:]
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The Chairman. We are here this morning to consider three
nominations: Dan Brouillette, to be Deputy Secretary of Energy;
and Neil Chatterjee and Robert Powelson, to be members of the
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC).
I want to welcome all three of the nominees to the
Commission and thank them for their willingness to serve our
country.
To start, we will hear introductions from Majority Leader
McConnell, from Senator Cornyn and from Senator Toomey. They
have come to provide introductions and to speak to the
nominees' qualifications.
I recognize that we do not have two of our three, but I
would like to welcome you, Senator Toomey, to the Committee. If
you would like to go ahead with the introduction of Mr.
Powelson, we can commence and then hopefully Senator Cornyn and
Leader McConnell will be joining us as well. After you have
made your comments, we will have an opportunity to provide ours
and turn to the nominees themselves.
Thank you for joining us this morning.
STATEMENT OF HON. PATRICK J. TOOMEY,
U.S. SENATOR FROM PENNSYLVANIA
Senator Toomey. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman, and
thank you to the ``Giant of the Senate'' for filling in for
Ranking Member Cantwell.
Senator Franken. You are quite welcome.
Senator Toomey. Senator Franken, good to see you both, as
always.
We have three outstanding nominees that your Committee will
be hearing from today, and I am delighted that your Committee
is doing so. It is my personal honor to introduce Rob Powelson
to the Committee.
Mr. Powelson is a native of Chester County, Pennsylvania.
And he has had a successful career both in business and in
public service and he has certainly established himself as one
of America's leading experts in energy policy and particularly,
electricity markets, serving, as he currently serves as a
Commissioner on the Pennsylvania Public Utility Commission.
I think it's entirely fitting that President Trump chose to
nominate a FERC Commissioner from Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania is
now a top energy-producing state. We are number two in the
nation in natural gas production. The development of the
Marcellus shale has been a tremendous boon to the Pennsylvania
economy and job creation. And Pennsylvania ranks number three
in the nation in electricity generation. We're a net exporter
of electricity, utilizing all sources of energy, including coal
and natural gas and nuclear.
Energy infrastructure needs improvement, especially in
Pennsylvania, but beyond. We need to keep pace with the natural
gas production that has come online recently, and we need to
make sure that we maintain affordable prices for consumers.
Rob Powelson, as I mentioned, has served on the
Pennsylvania Public Utility Commission. He has done so since
2008 when he was unanimously confirmed by the Pennsylvania
Senate. He was the Chairman for four years and in that capacity
oversaw Pennsylvania's electricity, water, natural gas and
telecommunication markets. He managed a staff of 500 employees
and served on a state-wide task force for natural gas
development where he focused on, among other things, the
feasibility of compressed natural gas vehicles in Pennsylvania.
He also has a record of improving our pipeline safety,
hired a significant number of additional pipeline safety
inspectors and worked with federal and state lawmakers to pass
common sense safety reforms.
Mr. Powelson oversaw the cleanup after Hurricane Sandy
where we had to restore electricity to one and a half million
affected customers and implemented electric utility response
plans for future emergency events.
Mr. Powelson is the current president of the National
Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners (NARUC) which
represents state utility regulators across the country. And
prior to his public service, Mr. Powelson served as the CEO and
President of the Chester County Chamber of Business and
Industry, an organization that he led for 14 years and which
received accreditation from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce during
his tenure.
He also currently serves on the Board of Trustees of Drexel
University.
It is an honor for me to be able to be here today to
introduce and to be an advocate for Rob Powelson. He will
certainly provide the FERC with a wealth of knowledge and
experience. I know he will support American energy independence
and to ensure the reliability of our electric grid.
So, again, I want to thank Chairwoman Murkowski and all the
members of the Committee. And I appreciate the opportunity to
be with you today.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Toomey, we appreciate
that, and I know Mr. Powelson appreciates your introduction as
well.
Leader McConnell, it is good to have you before the
Committee. We are pleased to finally begin the processing of
these FERC nominees, and you have a special relationship with
one of them this morning so we welcome you to the Committee to
introduce Mr. Chatterjee.
STATEMENT OF HON. MITCH McCONNELL,
U.S. SENATOR FROM KENTUCKY
Senator McConnell. I do indeed, Madam Chairman. Thank you
so much, members of the Committee.
I am here this morning to recommend an extremely well
qualified Kentuckian. Let me start with the headline that Neil
Chatterjee is going to make a great addition to the Federal
Energy Regulatory Commission.
He has worked in my office for about a decade. And for
those of you who know him, and I know several of you do, he is
someone with a real passion for energy policy. His mastery of
the issues is extremely impressive. He knows the ins and outs
of just about every energy topic you can think of, and if you
let him, he will talk your ear off about it.
I have no doubt he would approach matters that come before
the Commission with the same kind of thoughtfulness and
enthusiasm. Of course, it's one thing to have a great idea.
It's another to get the idea enacted. And Neil has gotten that,
clearly, over the years. He knows the importance of building
bridges and finding common ground. He's got a real gift for
forging strong and lasting relationships, sometimes with
Republicans, sometimes with Democrats. And more often than you
might think, believe it or not, with Barbara Boxer. We call
Neil the Boxer whisperer in my office.
[Laughter.]
It is a term of endearment, I assure you.
[Laughter.]
Let me give you an example. His work was key in forging
alliances between Senator Boxer, myself, some would argue a
rather odd couple, and others that ultimately resulted in a
bipartisan agreement on issues that once seemed completely
intractable, the five-year highway bill is one notable example.
WERTA is another. Both of these bills, obviously, had strong
infrastructure component and an agency like FERC, that
considers issues related to infrastructure, having that kind of
varied experience, which Neil has, will be a particular asset.
So here is what Senator Boxer said on the Senate Floor
after one of our legislative successes together about Neil. She
said, ``Neil helped us greatly to know the lay of the land. He
said this is where we have problems. This is where we can come
together. I hope,'' Senator Boxer added, ``I do not ruin his
career by thanking him.''
[Laughter.]
Well I think the fact that we're having this hearing today
proves that Senator Boxer didn't ruin his career. Neil has
repeatedly shown how to get a good result while listening to
good ideas, proposing those of his own and ultimately working
in good faith to get things accomplished. He's got the right
attitude when it comes to thoughtfully hearing out all sides of
an argument as well. He is, by every measure, exceptionally
well qualified for the position to which he's been nominated.
I will also note that in addition to Neil's background in
energy and infrastructure issues, he also has experience
working on environmental matters. His efforts on TSCA, another
important bipartisan accomplishment for our country, is another
example.
As the members of this Committee know, it is long past time
to get FERC working again and the quorum it needs. I think the
President made wise choices in the selection of Robert Powelson
and Neil Chatterjee for these important positions.
Obviously, I hate to lose Neil, but I know that FERC and
our country will benefit from the expertise, the talent, the
good humor, I have come to know this nominee possesses over the
years.
Thank you so much for your consideration today of this
outstanding nominee.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Leader McConnell.
Many of us here in this room have had an opportunity to
work with Neil as we attempted to move our energy bill, not
only through the Senate last year, but through the whole entire
process, and Neil was a great friend and ally.
We are going to have an opportunity to re-up that, perhaps
not with Neil's expertise, but an opportunity to continue much
of the good work there. So we appreciate that. We appreciate
you coming over to the Committee, and we appreciate your time.
We are still waiting for Senator Cornyn, but I think what I
would like to do is at this time ask the nominees to come
forward and take their seats. I will make my opening statement
and ask Senator Franken to make his. After that, if Senator
Cornyn has joined us, we will hear from him, but we will then
swear in each of the nominees, hear their testimony and also
ask for the introduction of their family members, many are here
with us this morning.
As has been noted, this is a significant hearing. It is
significant because this is a step toward restoring a crucial,
independent commission to functionality. FERC has been
operating without a quorum since February 3rd, for two reasons.
First, was President Obama's failure to nominate anyone for the
two Republican seats that were vacated in 2015 and 2016. Then
also, former Commissioner Norman Bay's decision to resign from
his term in February, well before it was scheduled to end. As a
result of those two factors, this is the first time in 40 years
that FERC has lacked a quorum, and according to Bloomberg, up
to $50 billion in projects are now at risk.
So we need to move quickly to restore FERC's ability to do
its important work. If we care about the business of a
critical, independent, expert agency, we need to have a fully
functioning commission. That is why I am pleased that we are
able to hold a hearing featuring two very qualified nominees.
Our first nominee, Neil Chatterjee, is well known to all of
us here on the dais. As I mentioned, he has been instrumental
here with the Committee, helping us on energy-related matters.
He is a first-rate energy professional. Almost all of us have
worked with him on bills that drew bipartisan support and
passed the Senate, in part, because of his efforts and his
guidance. Neil is known to consider all points of view and has
repeatedly brought decisionmakers with distinct perspectives
together, and I think we heard that just now from the Majority
Leader. I have worked with Neil now for five years. I am
pleased to support his nomination, and I believe that his
approach will well serve the Commission.
Our second nominee, Robert Powelson, has been a leader on
the Public Utility Commission of Pennsylvania for years and is
now the President of the National Association of Regulatory
Utility Commissioners, NARUC.
His colleagues, including several of my friends from
Alaska, have recognized his leadership. They share their
support for his confirmation to the FERC, and I likewise
support Mr. Powelson's nomination.
Our third nominee this morning is Dan Brouillette. This
will be his second term at the Department of Energy (DOE),
having served as Assistant Secretary for Congressional and
Intergovernmental Affairs from 2001 to 2003. Following his time
at DOE, he served as the Staff Director of the House Energy and
Commerce Committee, Vice President of Ford and is currently
Senior Vice President at USAA. He is well qualified for the
role of Deputy Secretary. He has the confidence of Secretary
Perry, and I believe he will be a capable partner at the
Department.
All of us are very well aware that the President's budget
request proposes significant cuts to basic research and applied
energy programs, along with the elimination of certain programs
that have proven to be effective for accelerating innovation.
While Mr. Brouillette will play a significant role in
developing and implementing any changes that are made at DOE, I
think we should all remember that the budget request was
written without him. Now I do not agree with everything in it
and questions about his views and his priorities are certainly
fair this morning, but I don't think it is going to do us much
good to try to hold Mr. Brouillette personally accountable for
the budget proposal or try to delay his confirmation based on
it.
So for members who have questions of our nominees, and I am
sure all will, I will be here for as long as possible this
morning. Should members have additional questions after the
hearing any questions for the record will be due at the close
of business today. I would just advise members to be prepared
to report these nominees, as well as the nomination of Mr.
Bernhardt, to be Deputy Secretary of the Interior, right after
we come back from our work period after this next week.
With that, I will now turn to Senator Franken. I thank you
for filling in this morning on this very important hearing and
appreciate your comments this morning as well.
STATEMENT OF HON. AL FRANKEN,
U.S. SENATOR FROM MINNESOTA
Senator Franken. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for
your comments.
We have three very important nominations before us this
morning. We are experiencing a dramatic transformation in our
energy sector. American innovation is not only changing how we
produce and use energy, it is also providing an enormous
economic opportunity in a growing global market for clean
energy technologies.
According to Bloomberg New Energy Finance, $7.8 trillion
will be invested in new, renewable energy facilities between
now and 2040. The International Energy Agency estimates that an
additional $23 billion will be spent on the energy efficiency
during this same period. It is essential that our government
invest in research and development and that we adopt the
appropriate policies to maintain the United States as the
world's clean energy leader.
Both the Department of Energy, DOE, and the Federal Energy
Regulatory Commission, FERC, can play a key role in this clean
energy revolution or they can hold us back while our
international competitors reap the rewards. That is the prism
through which I will consider the nominees that we hear from
today.
The Deputy Secretary of Energy is the Department's second
highest ranking official. He serves as the Department's Chief
Operating Officer and is often assigned the Department's
biggest challenges.
The next Deputy Secretary will have an especially difficult
job. He will help manage the nuclear arsenal. He must continue
to enhance our nuclear non-proliferation capabilities. He must
ensure that DOE meets its obligations to clean up the weapons
complex. If Ranking Member Cantwell were here, she would
underscore that the Hanford cleanup is a key part of this
discussion, wouldn't she?
The Chairman. She absolutely would.
Senator Franken. Yes, she would.
The Deputy Secretary must also maintain DOE's preeminent
role as a global scientific and technology powerhouse. The
Department's support for basic and applied research and for
technology innovation through its national laboratories is
absolutely essential.
The Department of Energy is our investment in the future.
We look to DOE and its researchers for innovations that keep
our nation secure and our infrastructure and economy strong.
The next Deputy Secretary will face an especially difficult job
because the President, who has nominated him, does not seem to
understand any of this.
The budget the President released earlier this week
proposes to slash many of DOE's essential programs. It would
devastate our emerging clean energy economy, and it would raise
electricity rates across the country by auctioning off public
assets to the highest bidder. The President's budget would kill
science, innovation and the jobs DOE supports today, and it
would foreclose on the trillion-
dollar promise of the global energy economy of the future.
When Secretary Perry appeared before this Committee during
his confirmation hearing, he was asked several times about
media reports that the Trump Administration was planning to
devastate a number of important DOE programs and whether he
would commit to defending the good work that the Department
performs. Because he never gave this Committee a straight
answer and failed to give me any confidence during a follow-up
discussion, I voted against Secretary Perry's confirmation.
If he is confirmed I hope Mr. Brouillette will be a voice
of experience and reason in the Administration. The Deputy
Secretary needs to have the wisdom and the courage to be an
advocate for his Department and its important programs. He
should not embrace and implement misguided policies. Instead,
he should advocate and champion wise ones.
We also will hear from nominees for two seats on FERC. It
is unfortunate that the Commission has not had a quorum since
early January. Then Chairman Bay told the transition team he
would resign if replaced as Chair and that is exactly what
happened. It then took the White House approximately three
months to send us nominees that could restore the quorum.
I am disappointed that one of our two sitting Democratic
Commissioners has chosen not to seek another term. Commissioner
Honorable has served with great distinction, and she has my
sincerest thanks.
It is important that we restore the quorum at the
Commission, but it is equally important that the President
nominate two more members to fill the remaining vacancies, one
Democratic and one Republican and maintain the party balance
that the law requires. We on the Committee will be working with
Senator Schumer to ensure that that happens.
FERC will eventually have a new chair and four new
commissioners that will be called up to make numerous decisions
that will impact our energy future. In my view, the Commission
needs to ensure that incumbent utilities do not discriminate
against new technologies such as wind and solar power,
distributed generation and energy storage. Similarly, FERC must
continue to play a key role in protecting the reliability of
the bulk power system, especially in enhancing the industry's
ability to guard against the growing threat of cyberattack.
I will want assurances from the FERC nominees that they
recognize the gravity of this issue. The law establishing the
Commission requires its members to be ``individuals who, by
demonstrated ability, background, training, or experience are
especially qualified to assess fairly the needs and concerns of
all interests affected by federal energy policy.'' I look
forward to hearing from both of the FERC nominees this morning.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Franken.
Senator Cornyn has joined the Committee. We have already
heard from Leader McConnell and Senator Toomey in the
introduction of Mr. Chatterjee and Mr. Powelson, but we would
welcome your introduction this morning, Senator Cornyn, of Mr.
Brouillette to be nominee within the Department of Energy.
STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN CORNYN,
U.S. SENATOR FROM TEXAS
Senator Cornyn. Well, thank you, Chairman Murkowski, Acting
Ranking Member Franken. Thank you for holding this hearing to
consider these nominations today, all of which are very
important. I'm here particularly to introduce Dan Brouillette,
who has been nominated as Deputy Secretary of the Department of
Energy, and it's an honor to introduce him and to see his
large, beautiful family.
Dan hails from my hometown of San Antonio, also known as
Military City, USA. Although he may tell you he is not a native
Texan, he did get there as fast as he could. And let me also
say Dan is glad to have his wife, Adrienne, here and all their
children. And of course, it has always been a pleasure. The one
thing that always impresses me about Dan and his wife is just
how incredibly well behaved your children are. You all have
done really well.
In San Antonio, Dan serves as Senior Vice President at
USAA, a Texas-based company made up of a tremendous team of
hard working people with a heart for serving military families.
But before his role there, Dan's career was one marked by
dedicated public service, that service began in the United
States Army as a tank commander and reserve drill instructor.
After serving eight years in the Army, Dan didn't want to
give up on government service, so he became a legislative
director on the House side for eight more years learning the
ins and outs of Congress which will serve him well in his new
role.
Later, he was nominated by President George W. Bush to
serve as Assistant Secretary for Congressional and
Intergovernmental Affairs at the Energy Department, a job that
requires a keen understanding of how to get the Executive and
Legislative branches on the same page to achieve results.
Following his first tour at DOE, Dan came back to the Hill
to serve as Majority Staff Director on the House Energy and
Commerce Committee.
And most recently, Dan served on Louisiana's Mineral and
Energy Board for three years.
Dan's the kind of man we should all want in a senior
position at the Department of Energy. He doesn't just have
policy chops, but he also knows the Executive Branch can work
in tandem with Congress to produce good results for the
American people. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that a
man of his caliber, someone who's demonstrated great
leadership, a zeal for public service and a firm understanding
of our nation's energy needs, will serve the United States
well. That is why I wholeheartedly support his nomination and
encourage the Committee to do the same.
I look forward to working with him and Secretary Perry and
the rest of the Administration to make the United States an
even stronger player in the global energy landscape, something
which, Madam Chairman, I know you support enthusiastically.
Thank you very much.
The Chairman. Enthusiastically.
We appreciate you being here this morning and for your
welcome and introduction. I do note for the record that we are
getting a little bit Texas heavy here, but that is okay.
Senator Cornyn. There's no such thing, no such thing.
The Chairman. We can help balance it out with Alaska, I am
sure.
[Laughter.]
Senator Cornyn, thank you for joining the Committee.
At this time, I will invite the nominees to please stand.
The rules of the Committee which apply to all nominees
require that they be sworn in connection with their testimony.
So I would ask you each to raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to
give to the Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources
shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
[Each nominee responds, I do.]
The Chairman. Before you begin your statements, you can go
ahead and keep standing, but I would just ask you to lower your
hand.
Before you begin your statement, I will ask you three
questions addressed to each nominee before this Committee.
Will you be available to appear before this Committee and
other Congressional Committees to represent departmental
positions and respond to issues of concern to the Congress?
[Nominees respond with Yes.]
The Chairman. Are you aware of any personal holdings,
investments or interests that could constitute a conflict or
create an appearance of such a conflict should you be confirmed
and assume the office to which you have been nominated by the
President?
Mr. Chatterjee?
Mr. Chatterjee. My investments, personal holdings and other
interests have been reviewed both by myself and appropriate
ethics counselors within the Federal Government. I've taken
appropriate action to avoid any conflicts of interests. There
are no conflicts of interest or appearances thereof, to my
knowledge.
The Chairman. Mr. Powelson?
Mr. Powelson. Madam Chair, I would echo what Nominee
Chatterjee presented to you.
I have no ethical or financial disclosure issues to report.
The Chairman. And then finally, are you involved or do you
have any assets held in blind trusts?
[Nominees respond with No.]
The Chairman. Thank you. You may sit down and we will
proceed with your testimony.
As each of you have already been introduced, at this time I
would invite you to introduce your family and provide the
Committee with your opening statement. We would ask that you
try to limit your statement to just about five minutes and your
full comments will be included as part of the record.
Mr. Brouillette, we will begin with you and then we will go
down the line. So if you would like to commence your comments
this morning and your introduction of your beautiful family.
STATEMENT OF HON. DAN R. BROUILLETTE, NOMINATED TO BE DEPUTY
SECRETARY OF ENERGY
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, Chair Murkowski.
Thank you, Chairman Murkowski and Acting Ranking Member
Franken. It is my honor to be here today and all told, the
staff, the professional staff of this Committee and the
professional staff of the individual offices, thank you for the
opportunity to appear before this Committee as the President's
nominee to be Deputy Secretary of Energy.
Each of you have been extremely generous with your time and
gracious with your counsel, and it's been truly a pleasure to
sit down with you and understand your special, your particular
policy interests and more importantly, your expectations of the
Department of Energy.
I'd also like to thank the President and Secretary Perry
for the confidence that they have placed in me with this
nomination. It is truly humbling to be here today and, if I'm
fortunate enough to be confirmed to this important position, I
look forward to working with them and with you, this Committee,
to advance our nation's energy and national security interests.
I know they've been introduced already, but Madam Chairman,
as important a position as this is I actually hold a more
important position and that is as father and husband. And I'll
take a moment just to introduce the rest of our family. With me
is my wife of 29, 28 years? How long has it been?
[Laughter.]
It's been a long time. She's been my best friend for nearly
30 years and we have been together a long time. But my wife,
Adrienne, is here, and our nine children. And if I can quickly
name them all. Christopher is right here in the front row. We
have Stephen and his wife Lauren. We have Julia, Danielle. I
can't see them. Danielle, Sam, Catherine, Jackie, Joelle,
Adelaide, and Christopher.
The Chairman. Can we ask them all to stand?
Mr. Brouillette. I'm sorry?
The Chairman. Will you ask them all to stand so we can
recognize them?
Mr. Brouillette. There we go.
[Applause.]
The Chairman. Thank you.
Mr. Brouillette. There we go.
We also have with us this weekend my mom from Louisiana,
Deanna Brouillette, my sister-in-law, Laura Brouillette, and
many, many friends and family, friends and colleagues that we
do consider family. It's never lost upon me that without them,
I wouldn't be here today.
If confirmed to this position, it will be the third time,
as Senator Cornyn said, in a three-decade career that I take an
oath to defend the Constitution of the United States.
My path to this Committee to here today, leads through the
United States Army, where I served as a young tank commander in
the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment. Many years ago, we stood in
the ``Fulda Gap'', which was then the ``furthest frontier of
freedom.'' It was the front line of our nation's efforts to
deter Russian nuclear and conventional aggression.
From there, service in the U.S. Congress, as Senator Cornyn
alluded to, and the Department of Energy. And I also served
with Congressman ``Billy'' Tauzin of Louisiana and later served
as his Staff Director to the counterpart of this Committee in
the U.S. House, the House Energy Committee. It was with Billy
that I learned the value of bipartisanship. He was a gifted
legislator. He's a gifted lawyer and he taught me well while I
was there.
From there, I served with two iconic American companies,
Ford Motor Company and USAA. And in each of those roles I've
been fortunate to work with individuals who are truly visionary
and capable.
For Calvary troopers across the world, Lieutenant General
and now National Security Advisor, H.R. McMasters, a modern-day
Patton. I was fortunate enough to serve in the Army and for all
of us who were in the cavalry and tank commanders, we looked up
to him and we learned a lot from him.
In this room, several Chairs of this Committee have served
as informal mentors. Senators Murkowski, Bingaman, Johnston,
Landrieu and Domenici.
At Ford and USAA, I was honored to serve next to
individuals who helped develop market technologies we now take
for granted, adaptive cruise control, hybrid vehicle power
systems, and remote deposit capture, which is a technology that
USAA invented that allows you to take a picture of a check and
have the funds immediately deposited to your banking account.
Many of those people were former DOE scientists.
Additionally, at USAA I've had the extreme privilege of
serving our nation's military community at times they most
needed us--and that was during the difficult moments that
followed a natural catastrophe or personal tragedy. All of
these experiences are diverse and varied, just as the Energy
Department itself, and each experience has prepared me well, I
think, for the dynamic challenges and opportunities that lie
ahead.
If I'm fortunate enough to be confirmed, I'll look forward
to serving as Deputy Secretary, along with the members of this
Committee, Secretary Perry and the incredible workforce at DOE
to address the wide array of opportunities and challenges
facing the Department with expanding obligations.
Chairman Murkowski, Acting Ranking Member Franken and I
will say, Ranking Member Cantwell because we had a fantastic
meeting yesterday and I did get an opportunity to learn from
her, thank you again for the opportunity to be here today.
It is an honor and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Brouillette follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Brouillette.
Mr. Chatterjee, welcome to the Committee. We welcome your
comments and the introduction of your family as well.
STATEMENT OF NEIL CHATTERJEE, NOMINATED TO BE A MEMBER OF THE
FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION
Mr. Chatterjee. Thank you, Chairman Murkowski, Acting
Ranking Member Franken, Senator Cantwell, members of the
Committee, thank you for this opportunity. It is my distinct
privilege to come before you today as a nominee to serve as a
Commissioner on the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.
If confirmed, I will serve to the best of my ability,
always seeking what is right for our country and for the
American people.
I want to express my sincere appreciation to President
Trump for presenting me the opportunity to serve my nation in
this manner and to Chairman Murkowski for her support, her
encouragement and her efforts in scheduling this hearing
without delay.
I'd also like to thank Leader McConnell for being here with
us and introducing me today. Words cannot convey how grateful
and humbled I am by this opportunity. Serving as the Leader's
energy policy advisor has truly been the honor of a lifetime,
and, put simply, I would not be where I am today without him
entrusting me with this great responsibility all these years.
Growing up in Lexington, Kentucky, I remember seeing the
work Senator McConnell did on behalf of the Commonwealth and I
dreamed of eventually serving under him in the Senate. Of
course, back then, I couldn't have known that I'd actually
achieve that goal, much less that I'd be sitting before this
distinguished Committee as a nominee for Commissioner, with the
Leader speaking on my behalf.
The experience I've gained while working for Leader
McConnell these past years extends well beyond the ins and outs
of energy policy, though of course that's a significant part of
why I'm here today. But of equal importance, are the many
principles about one's temperament, about discipline, about
judgment and about patience that the Leader has taught me by
example. Each of these lessons has had a profound impact on who
I am, and who I will continue striving to be if confirmed to
this new role serving our country.
There are several others I'd like to recognize, without
whom none of this would even be possible. I am joined today by
my amazing wife, Rebecca, my son, Bo, my son, Anderson, and my
daughter, Lane. Rebecca and I have been together since high
school and I have no doubt that it's because of her love and
support, at every step of the way, that I am sitting before you
now.
The Chairman. We welcome the whole family to the Committee.
Nice to have you here.
[Applause.]
Mr. Chatterjee. I am also proud to be joined today by my
parents, Drs. Sunil and Malaya Chatterjee, as well as my sister
Sumana. My family has sacrificed a great deal to pave the way
for me to reach this moment and I know I will never be able to
thank them enough for their strength, for their wisdom and for
their dedication. But today, I'd like to try.
The Federal Energy Regulatory Commission is an independent
agency responsible for ensuring just and reasonable wholesale
rates while maintaining reliability. Its broad jurisdiction
covers a wide array of energy matters and it plays an
increasingly critical role in the development and maintenance
of our nation's energy infrastructure. As the members of this
Committee know well, this is a crucial time for the Commission
and for America's energy future.
Having had a front row seat to the legislative process over
the last eight years, I've had the distinct privilege of
working to address many matters that impact the entire country,
from the Chairman's home state of Alaska, to the Commonwealth
of Kentucky and just about everywhere in between. I've also had
the opportunity to work with, I believe, nearly every Senator
on this Committee at some point in time. Because of my
experience developing sound policy with of different
backgrounds and ideologies, I believe I can bring a much-needed
perspective to the Commission should I be granted the
opportunity.
As my colleagues in the Senate on both sides of the aisle
can attest, I have always endeavored to be pragmatic, fair and
transparent in my interactions. In an effort to gain majority
support on key legislative priorities, I have proven my
commitment to hearing all sides of an issue and looking for
common ground. It is only then, I believe, that we can forge
lasting and meaningful solutions to the critical challenges
facing our nation.
To cite some examples from my time in the Senate. I have
worked with Chairman Murkowski and Ranking Member Cantwell on
major bipartisan energy legislation; with Senators Portman and
Shaheen on energy efficiency solutions; with Senator Stabenow
on farm bills and on critical resources for the crisis in
Flint; and with Senators Barrasso, Daines and Gardner on energy
production issues, just to name a few. I've also, obviously,
worked on a number of coal issues with Senator Manchin, and on
energy efficiency issues with your team, Senator Franken, as
well.
I hope to be able to bring the same equitable, level-headed
approach that I've taken here in the Senate with me to the
Commission so that we can move our country forward on the
numerous big issues before us.
Former Commission Chairman, Joe Kelliher, often reminded us
that FERC speaks loudest when it speaks with one voice. I
couldn't agree more.
If confirmed, I feel confident that my straightforward
approach and reputation as a consensus builder can help foster
that environment in the years to come.
With that, I'd like to once again thank the members of the
distinguished Committee for allowing me the opportunity to be
here today. At this time, I look forward to answering any
questions you may have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Chatterjee follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Neil. We appreciate you
being here and for your comments this morning.
Mr. Powelson, welcome to the Committee. It is an honor to
have you before us, and we appreciate your willingness to step
forward and to serve in this capacity as well.
Your introduction, please.
STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT F. POWELSON, NOMINATED TO BE A MEMBER
OF THE FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION
Mr. Powelson. Well, good morning Chairman Murkowski and
belated happy birthday. And Acting Ranking Member Franken, I
also thank you for the opportunity to be here this morning.
Let me first start off by personally thanking the entire
Committee staffs, both on the Republican and Democratic side,
for their steadfast commitment to, not only helping and
listening to nominees but the work that they do on behalf of
American energy.
I'm deeply honored to be here today as a nominee to serve
on the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. I'd also like to
thank President Trump for this incredible opportunity.
I'm also humbled by the introduction here this morning from
my home state Senator, Pat Toomey, for his very generous
introduction. I'm proud of my lifelong residency in the
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania for many reasons, and one of them
is the Commonwealth's rich tradition of bipartisanship and
collegiality among its congressional delegation.
You know, anytime you get to an opportunity like this, is
I'd like to say, it's your family that's here. And I want to
take this opportunity to thank my family members. My wife of 19
years and Dan, I'm inching toward you.
[Laughter.]
Lauren and I are lifelong Philadelphians and we're proud
parents of our two sons. Ryan, who is not with us here today--
he's on a mission trip. He's 14 years old, a proud student at
Malvern Preparatory, and he sent me a beautiful text message
last night saying, Dad, good luck here this morning. But my
other son, who's got the gift to be maybe a governor someday,
Shane, who's 11 years old--and I'm very proud of his
accomplishments this past year in his school year and his ice
hockey. And then my wife of 19 years, her unwavering support of
me throughout this process and my public service. I know she
jokes with me, someday I'm going to get a real job, she says. I
respectfully submit to her, it's been an honor to be a public
servant in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
And a dear family friend, my former Board Member and
Godfather to my sons, just a great gentleman, John McGowan, is
with me here.
I also want to recognize a young lady who's worked for me
for six years but started her career working at the Federal
Energy Regulatory Commission, my Chief of Staff, April Baloo.
This young lady is just an incredible asset to me. She's a
great, just an unbelievable asset, and I'm proud that she's
with me here today.
The Chairman. Wonderful to have your family and your
friends. Thank you.
Mr. Powelson. Thank you.
[Applause.]
To the members of the Committee, thank you for conducting
today's hearing. I know many of you are, kind of, impatient
with the fact that it's taken this long to get here, but I want
to personally say, we appreciate this opportunity here today. I
am truly honored by the nomination, and I look forward to
answering your questions and discussing the important energy
issues facing our nation.
If confirmed, I pledge to you I will bring a steadfast
commitment to upholding FERC's mission to ensure that rates are
just and reasonable by which utilities operate and more
importantly, that we protect the public interest standard in
our decision-making.
Now, as you heard from Senator Toomey, for the past 8-1/2
years, I have served as a public utility commissioner in the
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And I believe that my experience
there has suited me well for this potential opportunity.
I was nominated to the Pennsylvania Public Utility
Commission in 2008 by Democratic Governor Ed Rendell and was
approved unanimously by the Pennsylvania State Senate. In 2011,
Republican Governor Tom Corbett appointed me to serve as
Chairman. And in 2014, I was re-nominated by the Pennsylvania
State Senate to serve a second term and again, was unanimously
confirmed, excuse me, by the Pennsylvania State Senate.
During my time as chairman, I often look back over that
wonderful experience, but I had a number of events that I had
to deal with. As Senator Toomey mentioned, the restoration
associated with Super Storm Sandy was really a life-changing
experience for me. Pennsylvania was impacted dramatically by
that weather event and we worked very closely with our federal
agencies, our National Guard and others, to really create, what
I consider to be, a national success story when it comes to
power restoration. Most Pennsylvanians were restored power in
less than four days.
I'm also proud of the fact that Pennsylvania was one of the
first states in the nation to adopt a Distribution System
Improvement Charge to get at antiquated, hazardous distribution
pipeline in our gas distribution systems.
During my tenure at the Commission, I also oversaw the
successful implementation of Act 129 which is Pennsylvania's
energy efficiency and conservation law. And I'm also proud of
the fact that as Chairman I administered Pennsylvania's very
successful renewable portfolio standard.
And Senator Franken, I appreciate your comments around
clean tech investment because we're going to need it all in
this 21st century environment.
Let me conclude that one of the greatest honors that has
been bestowed on me is to serve as our President of the
National Association of Regulatory Commissioners and NARUC is a
wonderful organization, founded in 1889. I can tell you that
looking back on just my tenure working across the 50-state
compact and more recently, our international outreach, it's
been truly a wonderful opportunity. What I learned from my
experience in NARUC is that what works in Pennsylvania might
not work in other jurisdictions and the proud appreciation we
all have for our individual states' rights in supporting our
state energy policies. As I like to say, the states have been
the incubations of energy policy.
So, Madam Chair, I really thank you for this opportunity
and look forward to your questions from the Committee members
here this morning.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Powelson follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Powelson.
We thank each of you.
We will now begin a round of questions. Hopefully, we will
have time for a second round, depending on the interest of
Committee members.
Let me begin with our FERC nominees first, and this is just
generally related to the Alaska gas line.
Back in 2015, the DOE granted conditional----
[Protester shouting in the background.]
The Chairman. Back in 2015, there was conditional
authorization for the Alaska gas line to export LNG to
countries that do not have a free trade agreement with the
United States. This was a pretty major milestone for our
efforts in the state with the gas line in terms of how we can
move forward toward achieving the investment necessary, helping
to build out the jobs and really build the economic growth. In
April of this year the Alaska Gas Line Development Corporation
filed their application with FERC. It is a 58,000-page
application. It is substantive.
The question for both of you is, and I am not going to ask
you to prejudge any specific application. I know you can't do
that. But just generally, do you support Alaska's effort to
market its stranded gas? And then in terms of complications,
again, of this size, I think we need to have some level of
commitment that you will do what you can, provided you are
approved, to see that not only the Alaska application but all
applications can proceed through a process in a timely and a
predictable way. I am going to ask the same question to both of
you. Mr. Chatterjee, if you want to begin?
Mr. Chatterjee. Thank you for the question, Chairman.
Certainly, I believe in states and local communities
seeking projects that are in their interests and would be
supportive of projects that enable us to utilize our domestic
energy resources. Should I have the opportunity to be
confirmed, I will happily look to read through those 58,000
pages and take very seriously the considerations made by folks
and stakeholders on all sides of the issue.
As you know from working with me here in the Senate, I try
to be productive, to hear out stakeholders on all sides and
come to decisions that are in the interest of the country and--
--
[Protester shouting in the background.]
The Chairman. The Committee will be in order, please.
Mr. Chatterjee. And I hope to work with stakeholders in
Alaska should I have the opportunity to perform.
[Protester shouting in the background.]
The Chairman. Mr. Powelson?
Mr. Powelson. Thank you, Chairman, for the question here.
The Chairman. You need to push the button there a little
bit.
Mr. Powelson. Thank you, Senator, for your question.
I think you put it best one time, you look at the
investment that we have oversight of, if nominated. It's $400
billion per annum of critical infrastructure that needs to be
approved by the FERC.
And to echo what Neil said in his answer, respecting that
state right compact, the states' ability to develop their
energy resources and do it in a safe manner. Pipeline safety is
critically important, and I stand behind that.
And so, as these projects develop, I want to be fair and
balanced, look at the record and obviously, the business case,
as you know, we don't build these projects on speculation. And
so, I would give you my steadfast commitment to be fair,
balanced and do my homework in approving, if I have to give an
approval to these projects.
The Chairman. I appreciate that.
Mr. Brouillette, we had an opportunity to discuss the high-
energy crisis in Alaska, particularly rural Alaska. In many of
my communities we have folks that are paying upwards of $9 a
gallon for home heating fuel and this is not just a challenge
for many, it is a crisis.
We spoke generally about your commitment to work with us to
help do what we can to reduce the price of energy in Alaska and
in other areas where we are significantly impacted. And again,
we generally ask for your continued commitment to do just that.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, ma'am. You have that and whatever
else I may be able to do to help the people of Alaska.
As you and I discussed in your office yesterday, and thank
you very much for that opportunity, I sincerely appreciated the
chance to talk to you and learn more about that.
There's many things that we can do from technology to
supply, and we can do it in ways now that we couldn't do 50 or
60 years ago. So it's very important that we increase domestic
production, and I think you'll see that from this
Administration, from this Department of Energy. I look forward
to working with you and Secretary Perry on those matters.
The Chairman. And we look forward to having you and the
Secretary up North so that you can see for yourself some of the
impacts there.
Mr. Brouillette. I would be honored to visit.
The Chairman. Very good. Thank you.
Senator Franken.
Senator Franken. I believe Senator Manchin is on a tight
schedule, so I will yield to him.
The Chairman. Certainly.
Senator Manchin. Thank you, my friend. I appreciate that,
Madam Chairman and Senator Franken.
As you know, I come from West Virginia. We do a lot of
heavy lifting and we are really dependent upon FERC, a working
FERC. So we are very glad that we have two qualified people up
for this nomination, and we will get to work as quick as we
can.
I would ask both of you, Neil and Robert, what are your
concerns in the FERC? What do you think is the most critical
challenge you have as FERC, as a FERC regulator?
Mr. Powelson?
Mr. Powelson. Thank you, Senator Manchin, for that
question.
I think there are a number of issues in front of us.
Obviously, first and foremost, is the backlog of cases that are
sitting there right now. I think Chairwoman LaFleur, to her
credit, has done a remarkable job leading the organization and
trying to keep some semblance in managing the day-to-day
operations of the Commission.
But let me go through the suite of issues from
cybersecurity to physical security, to infrastructure
investment, to, you know, dealing with market issues. We are
certainly not lacking issues right now at the FERC. It is not
only an exciting time but a very challenging time.
Senator Manchin. If I may ask? Do you all know that there
has been a request for a grid study? I think Mr. Brouillette
understands me. We had a good conversation about this.
Can I ask you all? Where do you believe the reliability, if
you are looking at what the role of price is a big
consideration, the grid system, PJM is big in this whole area,
as you know. How do you rank reliability?
Neil?
Mr. Chatterjee. Thank you for the question, Senator.
I think, you know, overseeing reliability is at the core of
the Commission's mission, along with ensuring just and
reasonable rates. And I think the key to ensuring that
reliability is that we have a diverse fuel source, including a
strong base load power.
I think, obviously, coming from a region of the country,
West Virginia and Kentucky, we've been dependent and we've been
the beneficiaries in Kentucky of safe, affordable, reliable
electricity from coal-fired generation. There is, obviously,
considerable pressure on coal and coal's role in our generation
mix. I think we need to have a diversified fuel mix going
forward.
Senator Manchin. Let me ask you this, if I could?
Mr. Chatterjee. Yes, sir.
Senator Manchin. You know how tight we are on time here.
How do you define base load, base load fuel? Very quickly.
Mr. Powelson. So coming from Pennsylvania and we're good
neighbors. Always commend you as a former governor of a state.
How do I define base load? If I look at the PJM mix right
now it's nuclear, it's coal and it's natural gas, but
renewables are playing a part of this energy mix.
Senator Manchin. Sure.
Mr. Powelson. But they're the resources right now that seem
to be evolving and on a national level as well.
Senator, I can tell you, there's a tectonic shift taking
place across the U.S. In Pennsylvania right now, 30 percent of
our generation, as you know, I came on the Commission in 2008,
natural gas was less than 20 percent of the energy mix. It's up
to 30 percent now. We're diversifying.
Senator Manchin. In Pennsylvania, yes.
Mr. Powelson. Yup.
Senator Manchin. It is coming up strong in West Virginia.
Coal is still 90, but it is coming up strong, and we are all
for renewables too.
Mr. Powelson. And we're going to need it all, to your
point.
[Protester shouting in the background.]
Senator Manchin. Neil, if you could----
Mr. Chatterjee. I agree with Commissioner Powelson. We need
it all. We need coal, we need nuclear, we need hydro, and we
need renewables. And then, I think, obviously, gas plays an
important role, sometimes it serves as base load, sometimes it
serves as backup and sometimes it's used opportunistically.
[Protester shouting in the background.]
Senator Manchin. The previous discussions----
[Protester shouting in the background.]
The Chairman. The Committee will come to order.
Senator Manchin. I hope this does not count against my
time.
The Chairman. It will not count against your time, Senator.
[Laughter.]
[Protester shouting in the background.]
Senator Manchin. Oh, boy.
[Protester shouting in the background.]
Senator Manchin. Is there anybody else in the audience who
wants to say something before I get started again?
The Chairman. Senator Manchin, your time has not been
deducted from you, if you would like to proceed?
Senator Manchin. Thank you, and God Bless America.
My main concern, basically, is base load, and I am afraid
that the polar vortex about took us down.
Mr. Powelson, you know, and I think Mr. Chatterjee, you
know how critical that was. And that is all we are asking for
is the proper mix.
I am being told by the utility companies that the proper
mix, they are being forced because of certain conditions and
certain requirements that the previous FERC has put on them,
not to have the proper mix that they think to make the
reliability. That is what we are concerned about.
There is going to be a fuel of the future, I am sure, 10,
20, 30 years from now, but right now we have to use the
cleanest fashion we can, what we have that we can depend on. So
that is mine.
Mr. Brouillette, if I can, real quickly. You know there are
some severe requests for budget cuts, and with that there is a
recommendation on the NETL, the National Energy Technology
Labs.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir.
Senator Manchin. Consolidation.
If you could speak about that and what your concerns would
be and how you intend to take that on?
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir. I appreciate the question. And
thank you, again, sir, for spending time with me yesterday. I
really appreciate it.
Senator Manchin. Sure.
Mr. Brouillette. The opportunity we had to chat in your
office.
If I could just back up, just real quickly and opine
quickly on this grid study.
As I told you yesterday----
Senator Manchin. It was given to your new forthcoming
agency.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Brouillette. Exactly.
I've not been briefed on the study. But I'm told that it is
and based on press accounts, it is to understand this new
balance that may be affecting the marketplace. So, that's it's
intent. I think it's going to be an internal study at this
point to review a lot of literature that's been already been
written by the laboratories.
Senator Manchin. Sure.
Mr. Brouillette. I know NETL is an important part of the
laboratory components at the Department of Energy.
The budget, as the Chairwoman, Chairman, explained earlier,
I've not been a part of. I have read the paper accounts. I do
understand that there are cuts.
You know, I guess from my background, I understand full
well what the process is too, sir.
The President has made a request. And it does lay out his
policy directives. But the process, as you all know better than
I, involves both the House and the Congress. And I look
forward, if confirmed, to working with the Congress to arrive
at an appropriate number for the scientific labs.
Senator Manchin. Well, that is all we would ask, and we
want to make sure that we do the most effective and efficient
thing we can for our country. I would hope that you would look
into Morgantown, the NETL lab, which is a very, very productive
lab and does an awful lot of heavy lifting and a lot of work.
And it's tied into WVU's research centers, so it's really been
very effective there.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir. They do outstanding work.
Senator Manchin. Yes.
I just want to thank all of you for your interest in
serving. I really do. I know it is very difficult and it is
very challenging, but I thank your families for the support
they give to you all and for you all giving of yourselves
because it is going to be very demanding in the next few years.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Manchin.
Senator Lee.
Senator Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thanks to all of you for being here today.
As you are aware, in many parts of the country there are
public and private entities alike that are waiting for the
approval of infrastructure projects, projects that would serve
each community well and provide for substantial employment
opportunities and opportunities for economic growth.
In Utah, the Lake Powell pipeline project is something that
would help to develop Utah's allocation of water from the
Colorado River. If built, would help provide water to one of
Utah's driest regions and also a region that is experiencing
really fast growth. They need water.
The preliminary licensing and environmental review
documents have been filed with FERC. To date, we are 11 years
into the project and, to date, about $32 million has been spent
just in this process. Yet it is still nowhere near where it
needs to be.
I would like to ask some questions of those who have been
nominated to serve in FERC. We will start with you, Mr.
Chatterjee.
What could you do to work to make sure that there is better
coordination between agencies, between FERC, entities like the
BLM and other agencies and departments? And would you consider
supporting review deadlines for projects waiting for FERC
approval?
Mr. Chatterjee. Thank you for the question, Senator.
I share your sentiment that this type of infrastructure
development is critical to not just job creation, but to
stimulating economic growth. And FERC plays a critical role in
approving this, these, infrastructure projects moving forward.
While I don't want to speak to the specific project you
referenced, certainly, you know, philosophically, I want to
make sure that the approval system is working as efficiently as
possible. I do know that FERC often interacts with myriad
agencies through the approval process.
And you have my assurance that I would work to better
coordinate and streamline this process in a responsible manner.
I think one of the advantages that I can bring to the
position is, you know, having served here in the legislative
branch, with a national portfolio, I've developed relationships
across a number of these agencies, as well as throughout the
Congress. So I can reach out directly to some of these related
agencies to ensure that the project can be better streamlined.
But again, I need to stress, we need to do it responsibly
because what we don't want to do is, in our push to do it
expeditiously, create any kind of legal liability on the back
end. But no question, we need to really look at making sure of
the processes as efficient as possible.
Senator Lee. How about you, Mr. Powelson?
Mr. Powelson. Senator, thank you for your question. And I
would start just to pick up on Mr. Chatterjee's point. If
nominated, I think the first thing that I would do is really,
kind of, do some root cause analysis of where these snags are
presenting themselves in the Office of Energy Projects.
And I think to Mr. Chatterjee's point, you know, not
sacrificing things like pipeline safety or, you know, these
delays, as you know, cost real money. And so, for me,
personally as a state regulator, getting immersed in where are
the issues, what's causing the problem and the delay.
And then one thing I'd get a greater appreciation for in
the time that I've spent here in DC, is kind of, there's still
this silo mentality of different agencies sometimes not
coordinating on that effort, whether it's Army Corps, EPA, DOE
and others. So, I think we've got to start having these
conversations if, again, we're talking about a state like
yours, that wants to go forward with a project of this
magnitude, that we're all moving in the same direction.
Senator Lee. Yes.
Mr. Brouillette, let's talk a little bit about the
Strategic Petroleum Reserve.
Are you open to the idea of reforming that and what do you
think of what some, including the Trump Administration, have
suggested about the idea of selling oil for deficit reduction?
And if we are going to do that sort of thing, anytime we sell
it, what can we do to optimize the price to make sure that we
are getting our value out of it?
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you for the question, Senator, and
thank you as well for the opportunity to meet. I really enjoyed
our conversation in your office.
The Strategic Petroleum Reserve, as you know, was set up
for a very specific reason and that was to maintain an
emergency supply of fuel. The definitions and the conditions
under which it could be sold, are very clearly defined in
federal law.
I am not familiar with the discussions, the policy
discussions, that the Administration may have had to determine
the level of sales that they have included in their budget
request to the Congress.
I can tell you as a general matter, I would stand by the
federal law. I do think the Strategic Petroleum Reserve serves
a valuable purpose. As the Chairman and I discussed as well, I
am open to better mousetraps, if you will. I am not convinced
that a single repository or a series of repositories in one
location in the country is going to serve us well in certain
moments or certain catastrophes.
So, if confirmed, sir, I would be more than open to having
a conversation about how we might reform that and make it much
better and more effective.
Senator Lee. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Lee.
Senator Franken.
Senator Franken. Thank you, Madam Chair.
This is for the FERC nominees. Over the past decade we have
seen a transformation in the way electricity is generated and
delivered in the United States. With new technologies
challenging the traditional grid model because of energy
efficiency, electricity demand is down and this is saving
households and businesses money.
The plummeting prices of wind turbines and solar panels
have driven more renewables and distributed power generation
into the marketplace, and we are developing more efficient and
effective energy storage systems which improves the reliability
and resilience of the grid and allows increasing amounts of
variable renewable energy sources.
My state of Minnesota is on track to be 25 percent
renewable by 2025. It is working so well the state is actually
looking at ways of increasing that target to 50 percent by
2020. And this transformation to clean, flexible resources is
going to continue and the future of our grid will be
fundamentally different than it is today.
Mr. Chatterjee, Mr. Powelson, I would like to hear your
visions for the future of the grid. In your view, what needs to
be done to allow distributed energy technologies to
meaningfully participate in the marketplace?
Mr. Chatterjee. Thank you for the question, Senator
Franken.
There's no question in states like Minnesota and other
regions of the country you are seeing rapidly increased
deployments as there have been dramatic developments in
technology. You know, I'm in favor of markets, I'm in favor of
competition, and I'm in favor of technology, particularly when
technology is in the best interest of consumers. I think that
the Commission plays a critical role in the development of
infrastructure and getting those, that infrastructure,
permitted.
Senator Lee asked a specific question about infrastructure.
I think we need to look at our grid infrastructure to make sure
that it's prepared to deal with this transformation as
different technologies and renewables come into the
marketplace. And I think I would take that same view, should I
have the opportunity to be confirmed and serve at the
Commission.
I've met with a number of folks in this space and have been
impressed with the innovation that has been ongoing. I was
pleased yesterday to actually receive an endorsement from AEE,
an advanced energy group who I'd met with on occasion and
demonstrated my willingness to really learn about the
advancements that are occurring and how to best integrate them
into our energy mix.
Mr. Powelson. Senator Franken, thank you for the question.
I will wear my Pennsylvania hat and then go to another hat
here.
One is, I think, like your state, Pennsylvania, as you
heard in my opening comments, we have a statewide energy
efficiency program. It was adopted in 2008. Utilities have
spent close to $1 billion in energy efficiency with a total
resource cost to customers receiving net benefit of close to
$1.8 billion. Those programs are working. I'm very proud of our
record in Pennsylvania with what we've done with energy
efficiency.
I also support, you know, what you said about renewables. I
mean, look, low, clean tech investment is part of this 21st
century landscape. I live right on the border of a new plant
that Governor Markell brought to Delaware.
A decade ago you couldn't have defined what an oxidized
fuel cell was. Now we have a company like Bloom Energy with
their East Coast operation bringing oxidized fuel cells to the
market.
You mentioned battery storage, another critical part. I
serve on the Electric Power Research Institute. I mean, we're
going to have wind farms with battery storage capability here.
EV charging, you know, solar and wind cost curves coming down
dramatically, new metering technologies. Pennsylvania, like
your state, we have advanced metering technology. So it is a
dynamic marketplace.
I'll leave you with one note, like my good friend here from
Kentucky. In meeting with groups like the Advanced Energy
Economy, the first thing I did as NARUC President was to
implement an innovation task force to bring all these new
technology providers into a working conversation with NARUC
Commissioners. And it's been off to a great start.
Senator Franken. Thank you for that answer.
Thank you, both. I know I have run out of time. Just one
thing, I would like to respond to Mr. Powelson in terms of
storage and wind. That is part of the base load that we are
talking about when we talk about base load.
Mr. Brouillette, I was going to ask you about the DOE
budget cuts. I have run out of time so I am not going to do
that, but I would like to remark, the Chairwoman told me that
you and your wife homeschooled your children.
Mr. Brouillette. We do, sir.
Senator Franken. All nine of them?
Mr. Brouillette. All nine.
Senator Franken. Are you going to have time to do this job?
[Laughter.]
I see some of them have aged out of----
Mr. Brouillette. Given my wife's organizational skills, I'm
starting to wonder if the wrong Brouillette was nominated.
[Laughter.]
She is very good at what she does.
Senator Franken. Okay. And you do the math and science
part?
Mr. Brouillette. I try to, sometimes.
Senator Franken. Okay, alright.
[Laughter.]
Okay.
The Chairman. Okay.
Senator Franken. Back to you.
[Laughter.]
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Franken.
Senator Gardner.
Senator Gardner. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Franken, I think that is exactly why he needs a
laboratory system that has advanced computational ability, to
help with the process there.
So I want to thank you, all of you, for being here today,
the witnesses who are here today. I know there are a number of
children in the room today and thank you for being here. I have
three kids myself. And the fact is, moms and dads are doing
this, they are willing to commit to public service because they
believe that this is a way they can pay back the country and
make this a very special place even that more special. So
thanks to all the children who are here seeing their moms and
dads go through a confirmation process because I know it takes
away time from you all as well. Thanks for that service, that
sacrifice and that commitment.
Mr. Brouillette, I would like to start with you. I would be
remiss if I did not talk about, carry on the conversation that
we had in our office just a couple days ago, talking about the
National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Colorado. We discussed
the importance of that. We discussed the importance of grid
reliability, diversified fuel mix. And I think nobody does that
better and the understanding of how that works in combination
with the diverse fuel mixture and making sure we have grid
reliability than the National Renewable Energy Laboratory
(NREL).
Both you and Secretary Perry have expressed support for the
National Renewable Energy Laboratory, but I want to make sure
that it is clear that I will oppose any attempts to shut down
lab operations. With the figures that I have in 2015, fiscal
year, NREL received approximately $357 million across 13 EERE,
energy efficiency and renewable energy office programs,
research programs. The President's budget proposal provides
about $636 million to EERE.
I realize you are not at the Department yet, but you have
been nominated to serve as the second in charge, second in
command. So please explain to me how, if confirmed, you will
work to reconcile the differences in order to ensure the
Renewable Energy Laboratory programs ensure cyber and advanced
computing will be continued, that those are priorities of the
Administration at NREL.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, Senator. I sincerely
appreciated our opportunity to chat yesterday in your office.
It's always enlightening to me. You have spent much more
time at NREL than I have, but I have been there, many times.
It's a fascinating place and it's a place filled with
incredible talent. I'm always drawn there when I meet the folks
there.
As you mentioned with this particular budget I was not part
of the process. But you have my assurance, if confirmed to
serve in this role, that I will advocate for the programs of
the Department. You have my assurance on that and I will always
be available to you.
The good people of NREL have not only invented much of the
renewable technologies that we talked about with regard to
potential base load application, they have enabled it. Much of
the technology that they have developed is now in the
marketplace because of their good work.
So again, sir, if confirmed, I look forward to working with
you and I will be an advocate for the programs.
Senator Gardner. Thank you.
Additionally, the support for grid modernization, the ease
of energy systems integration facility, not clearly stated in
the budget. Industry engagement, though, is showing that these
are both critical to innovation. How would you advise Secretary
Perry on where federal dollars should be spent in order to best
prepare this country for energy leadership and cyber readiness?
Mr. Brouillette. I'm sorry, can you repeat that again?
Senator Gardner. Just the ease of program on cyber and I
will submit that for the record because I will run out of time
here.
Mr. Brouillette. Sure.
Senator Gardner. I want to get to the two FERC nominees,
both to Mr. Chatterjee as well as Mr. Powelson.
I spoke to both of you in the office. Thanks for coming in.
I talked about my support for the liquefied natural gas export
projects and facilities. I spoke of my support for a project
called Jordan Cove that would take Colorado's Western Slope
natural gas from the Piceance Basin, which is spelled a little
bit like Brouillette, you have to figure out how to get them
both spelled, to markets in Asia. I have long supported this
project and look forward to the refiling of that project at
FERC this summer during a time when we will have the quorum
filled at FERC.
I know you probably cannot comment on the Jordan Cove
filing specifically, but I would like your position on LNG
exports in general, if you can, Mr. Chatterjee and Mr.
Powelson.
Mr. Chatterjee. Thank you for the question, Senator.
Yes, I've been advised I can't speak to any action that may
come before the Commission. But I do think that permitting LNG
facilities is an important part of FERC's role and it's a
responsibility that I would take seriously. There are
stakeholders on all sides of the issues. But while I certainly
would look to try and get these projects sited, I would also be
certain to hear feedback from folks on all sides of the issues
and make the most responsible decision I could.
Senator Gardner. Mr. Powelson?
Mr. Powelson. Senator Gardner, thank you for the question
and also thank you for the time you took out of your hectic
schedule to meet with me.
This is an issue that, just look at the 2008 timeframe when
I came on the Commission we had $14 per MM BTU gas and we were
an import nation. Today we are moving forward toward really
dominating the international landscape with export opportunity.
To reiterate what Nominee Chatterjee mentioned, public
input, stakeholder process is all part of this equation. People
have to have peace of mind that there's transparency in that
process, but as I said earlier in comments, you know, we don't
build pipelines on speculation.
And in here we are reversing flows from 2008, in less than
in an 8-1/2 year window, now we have an opportunity to be
exporting. And exporting, in my view, is a geopolitical,
creates geopolitical upside for the U.S.
I had a great opportunity with our former Governor to go to
Chile, one of our true democracies, and met with Sebastian
Panira and talked about the need as they're, kind of,
decarbonizing themselves, they needed natural gas and they
don't have it in Chile. So these are the opportunities that
abound if we do it right.
Senator Gardner. Mr. Powelson, last question. At the state
and federal authority, we talked about that a little bit in our
meeting. In the context of wholesale power markets and state
energy policies, including the state renewable energy
portfolio, where would you come down on using federal authority
to preempt state laws?
Mr. Powelson. That's a great question, Senator, and I will
respectfully start with the work that's being done right now at
the FERC because this is a very big issue. I come from an
organized market and there's organized markets and then there's
the bilateral markets.
The first thing that, I think, the FERC is doing
responsibly is hold the work that Chairman LaFleur did to start
the conversation around this tech conference and gathering
feedback from states, generators and other market participants.
So to answer your question, I am not, I respect states'
rights but also we, as Federal Energy Regulatory Commissioners,
if confirmed here, have a responsibility to uphold the Federal
Power Act and we also have responsibility around the Natural
Gas Act. And how states develop these policies, if there's an
inference in the market design, that's where we have to step in
and make those decisions. But I, today, will tell you that I
think the FERC has, to its credit, tried to be respectful of
the state energy policies.
Senator Gardner. Thank you.
In general, I think it is important to look at, when we are
talking about grid reliability issues or if studies are being
embarked upon, I think it is important that we look at all of
the experts, whether they are at the National Renewable Energy
Laboratory or utilities. Take Xcel Energy, they have done a
remarkable job of integrating various sources, fuel mixes, into
the grid while maintaining superior reliability.
So I think it is important to listen to all those voices.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Senator Cortez Masto.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Gentlemen, welcome and thank you for your willingness to
serve and welcome to your family and friends here as well.
Mr. Brouillette, let me start with you.
First of all, thank you for coming to visit with me. I
wanted to follow up on the conversation we were having with
respect to Yucca Mountain. As you well know, the President's
full budget provides $120 million to restart licensing
activities for a Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository.
I am opposed to it. My colleague, Senator Heller, is
opposed to it. The state is opposed to it. Very directly, are
you in favor of siting the nation's nuclear waste at Yucca
Mountain?
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you for the opportunity, Senator. I
sincerely appreciated our conversation as well.
I'm in favor of following the law, as we talked about----
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Mr. Brouillette. In your office.
Senator Cortez Masto. And I appreciate that.
So let me ask you this. Do you agree that science should
dictate whether high level nuclear waste should be safely
stored in a permanent repository?
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, ma'am, I do.
Senator Cortez Masto. Nevada has submitted hundreds of
contentions that objectively demonstrate that the site is
scientifically unsafe. If the site is declared scientifically
unsafe, do you agree that nuclear waste should not be stored at
Yucca Mountain?
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, ma'am. I'm aware as well that there
is a review underway. And as we discussed in your office,
obviously, if the science is so definitive as to show that the
site is unsafe, I don't think it's in the interest of anyone to
place nuclear waste and endanger the lives of Americans
anywhere.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Mr. Brouillette. But, if the science were to show that it
is safe, we would be obligated to follow the law.
Senator Cortez Masto. Do you support the continuation of
DOE's current work on consent-based siting for storage and
disposal facilities?
Mr. Brouillette. I'm sorry, ma'am, I apologize, I didn't
hear.
Senator Cortez Masto. Sure.
Do you support the continuation of DOE's current work on
consent-based siting for storage and disposal facilities?
Mr. Brouillette. I think it's important that states have
input into the process.
Senator Cortez Masto. I agree. Thank you.
[Laughter.]
Listen, I appreciate that. I only have so much time.
Mr. Brouillette. Sure.
Senator Cortez Masto. Again, thank you. It was great
conversation we had.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, ma'am.
Senator Cortez Masto. I really appreciate your candor.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, ma'am.
Senator Cortez Masto. And the conversation.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you very much.
Senator Cortez Masto. Gentlemen, I have not had a chance,
unfortunately, to meet with you so I have a few questions for
you as well.
I am going to just throw these questions out to both of you
and ask that you respond, if you would.
In late 2016, FERC issued a proposed rule that would
eliminate barriers to the participation of renewable energy and
electric storage in wholesale markets. Will you support
approval of the proposed rule and what changes, if any, would
you support before issuing a final rule?
Mr. Powelson. Senator, thank you for the question.
And if confirmed, I pledge to you that I will read through
the record and the comments. As I mentioned to Senator Franken,
we need to recognize these new resources that are coming into
the market. So I will keep an open mind to that. I don't want
to, as you know, as FERC Commissioners we don't pick the
winners and losers in the market. But we do have a
responsibility as these technologies are emerging and they're
going to market, that we have to provide rules and proper
incentives for these resources to compete in the market.
I will pledge to you to keep an open mind and continue to
work constructively so that we're not, again, getting in a
situation of displacing these resources that are providing,
believe it or not in my state, a lot of benefits to customers.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you, as well in Nevada. So
thank you.
Mr. Chatterjee. Thank you, Senator. I'd like to echo
Commissioner Powelson's comments.
While, you know, I can't speak to the matter before the
Commission, nor prejudge it, I would like to echo the
conversation I had with Senator Franken. I'm certainly
supportive of technological innovation, and there's been
tremendous innovation in this space.
You know, I'm for competition and access to markets and
particularly when it's in the consumer's interest. I would most
certainly judiciously study this issue should I have the
opportunity to be confirmed and have it come before me.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Do you both agree that the evidence shows that solar and
wind power can be reliably integrated into the power grid?
Mr. Powelson. Well, as a state public utility commissioner,
I can tell you it's playing a large part in our energy mix,
whether it's rooftop or utility-based solar.
Now Pennsylvania only in its RPS, it only counts for 0.5
percent where if you go across the Delaware River in New Jersey
is one of the leading states for solar development. So as the
Senator mentioned, as these cost curves come down, it's
creating a new opportunity for customers and now we're having a
discussion at NARUC about community-based solar. Again, keeping
an open mind to all these resources that are coming into the
power generation mix is something that I stand behind.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Mr. Chatterjee. I'd just like to echo the Commissioner's
comments, you know, safe, affordable and reliable electricity
delivery is essential. And as these new technologies come
online I will certainly look to adhere to FERC's core mission
and ensure that those principles are maintained.
Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
Madam Chair, I noticed my time is up. I'll submit the rest
of my questions for the record.
Thank you.
The Chairman. I appreciate that very much.
Senator Heinrich.
Senator Heinrich. I just want to thank my colleague from
Nevada, as well as my colleague from Minnesota, for those
questions. They were very much along the lines of my first
question for both of the nominees for the FERC.
I just wanted to mention a story this morning about Tucson
Electric Power just inking a deal for three cents a kilowatt/
hour. So when we talk about solar PPA and when we talk about
benefits to consumers and even on a levelized cost basis, we
are seeing many of the analysis come out with solar and wind
lower even than combined cycle natural gas, much less things
like peaking power. That is incredibly important for consumers
across the country, and I think we are just beginning to be
able to access what is the tip of the iceberg there.
I want to switch gears since both of you commented on that
to transmission. In New Mexico we have enormous supplies of
wind and solar resources but what we now lack after substantial
development, particularly in wind in the last year, year and a
half, is the transmission capacity to deliver that energy to
other markets because we are net energy exporter. Without new
investment in transmission these resources will simply not
fully be developed.
Do you think the Commission has a role to help facilitate
investment in new interstate transmission capacity that
benefits consumers? And do you think the Commission has
sufficient authority to engage or to encourage investment in a
new electric transmission capacity or is this an area that
Congress should be taking another look at?
Mr. Powelson. Senator, thank you for your question and it
really is a big issue.
You know, we first look at our bulk power system and we
look at the, as I mentioned earlier, these tectonic shifts in
our generation fleet.
We're doing this on a long-haul transmission system that's
carbon 44 tested. And so, there is going to have to be an
investment made in transmission to get renewables and other
resources to load centers.
Senator Heinrich. Right.
Mr. Powelson. To the credit of the former chair,
Wellinghoff, and that set of Commissioners, I think we're
coming up on a six-year anniversary on FERC Order 1000 which
was envisioned to create this highway system for competitive
transmission to be built and to recognize these new resources
coming into the marketplace.
I still think, as we do a look back on FERC Order 1000, if
confirmed, one thing I want to do immediately is sit down with
our regional transmission organizations, our independent system
operators and kind of see where these bottlenecks are, what's
working, what's not working, because again, to your credit as a
state, you guys are putting these, you're making an investment
around these resources.
Like I joke about Marcellus shale, I'd love to use all 500
trillion cubic feet of natural gas. It's just not the reality.
We've got to move these molecules and we've got to move these
renewable electrons as well.
So that's, kind of, where I look at the issue. I pledge to
you, if confirmed, that we, you know, I would first want to get
educated, but more importantly see what's working----
Senator Heinrich. You see it as a priority.
Mr. Powelson. I do. I do.
Senator Heinrich. Mr. Chatterjee, do you want to add to
that?
Mr. Chatterjee. Yes, just to build on what Commissioner
Powelson laid out, I just want to echo and stress the
importance of transmission.
Whatever our generation mix, power delivery will rely on
continued maintenance of a robust, reliable grid. I agree with
you that we need continued investment, and we need to make sure
that the return on equity is sufficient to achieve that goal of
that needed investment. I would certainly be supportive. And it
would be something, should I be fortunate enough to be
confirmed, that I would make a priority.
Senator Heinrich. I want to thank you both for your answers
on that, and I want to shift gear to our nominee for the Deputy
Secretary position.
I want to start with the most important question which is
how do I say your name correctly because I was not here at the
beginning.
Mr. Brouillette. It's Brouillette, sir.
Senator Heinrich. Okay, Brouillette.
I am really pleased to see the Office of Technology
Transitions trying some new approaches to promote tech transfer
at our DOE labs. We had the chance to talk a little bit about
that in my office yesterday.
One example is a really innovative voucher program that
pairs small businesses with scientists and engineers at those
labs and helps get them up to speed on commercialization of
technologies. How familiar are you with the program? And do you
think it is a good model for moving new technologies from the
labs into the commercial sector?
Mr. Brouillette. Senator, thank you, again, for the
opportunity to chat yesterday. I really enjoyed our
conversation.
I am not an expert in the program. I am vaguely familiar
with it. I have studied it at a high level.
I can tell you that I'm firmly committed to technology
transfer within the Department of Energy and the labs,
generally. Anything that we can do to move these great ideas
from the lab to the marketplace is going to benefit all
Americans.
So I will strongly support and, if confirmed, I'll look
forward to working with you to advance those issues.
Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Mr. Brouillette.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, sir.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
Senator Cassidy.
Senator Cassidy. Mr. Brouillette, I know how to pronounce
your name, you know what I am saying.
[Laughter.]
It is good to see my constituent back there, and whatever
we can do to serve you, please let us know. If you want a tour
of the Capitol, let us know. We are glad to have folks visit.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, sir.
Senator Cassidy. I also note that when you were naming your
nine children, you actually had their names listed.
Mr. Brouillette. That's important.
Senator Cassidy. You did not want to skip a name, right?
Mr. Brouillette. That's important.
Senator Cassidy. Yes, nine gets you there. Yes, I hope they
are LSU fans.
[Laughter.]
So anyway, just to go there.
A couple things.
Last year the Department of Energy issued its first
conditional loan commitment for an advanced fossil fuel project
at the Lake Charles methanol plant. This $2 billion commitment
matched with $1.9 billion in private equity capital and taking
petroleum coke, we are both familiar with that, kind of an end
product of the refinement of oil into a methanol facility.
For all the folks who have been yelling in our hearings, it
actually takes a by-product of the central products but does
something with it capturing the CO2, using it for enhanced oil
recovery. Again, so for those yelling, it should achieve a goal
they want which would be to decrease emissions.
So my question is for you. The President's budget proposes
to eliminate the Title 17 program, canceling the remaining loan
volume authority including that which would include this.
Now aside from environmental and what do we do with pet
coke, it creates about 1,000 construction jobs and 200
permanent jobs in my state but also jobs in Texas for enhanced
oil recovery which again, is what we should be doing worldwide,
energy security, economic development, et cetera.
So, I guess this is, kind of, a beg to answer question but
assuming the projects continue to prove its creditworthiness,
will you work with me to advance this unique energy project
through the appropriate process?
Mr. Brouillette. The short answer, sir, is yes. I look
forward to visiting with you further about that, if I'm
confirmed.
As we mentioned earlier, or as I mentioned earlier in the
Committee, to the Committee, I was not part of the budget
process and I understand full well that this is the President's
request to the Congress, but at the end of the day the Congress
will work, both the House and the Senate, to determine the
final appropriate numbers for these programs.
Once you do that and once you complete your process, I will
certainly execute to the letter of the law.
Senator Cassidy. Now let me just ask your attitude because
my goal, my idea, is that you have this, kind of, large-scale,
first-of-kind project and the equity markets really do not
quite know how to price it.
As long as the federal taxpayer gets a return on her
investment, we have got to protect the federal taxpayer, but it
is a way to, kind of, show that you can do it, taking it to
scale. Again, doing a lot of positive things. Would you agree
with that or, philosophically saying?
Mr. Brouillette. I do agree that on occasion it is
appropriate for the government to step in and provide that type
of assistance. I think you're referring to some of the loan
programs and perhaps the ARPA-E program within the Department
of Energy.
I would like the opportunity, sir, if confirmed, to get
there and to learn more about the structure of those two
agencies, the structure of those two programs. Coming from a
finance background or financial institution, I think it's
important that they have proper underwriting and they have
proper standards around those loans and around those grants. We
just need to understand what the risk portfolio represents.
Senator Cassidy. Sounds great.
Thank you.
Mr. Brouillette. So I will look forward to working with
you, if confirmed.
Senator Cassidy. Thank you.
Mr. Powelson, obviously, the Marcellus shale has done
fantastic in Pennsylvania. It has created an incredible number
of jobs. I noticed, speaking in my home state, a lot of folks
with French last names have moved to Pennsylvania to help teach
the Pennsylvanians how to develop that gas. That said, what
impact has the increased use of natural gas in your power grid
had upon greenhouse gas emissions in your state?
Mr. Powelson. Senator Cassidy, thank you for your question
and I appreciate the opportunity to have met with you on this
topic.
First of all, we are an open border state, so we love
having raging Cajuns come into the Commonwealth of
Pennsylvania.
[Laughter.]
Senator Cassidy. It has upgraded your food, I will tell you
that.
Mr. Powelson. It certainly has.
[Laughter.]
You mentioned Marcellus development, you know, this has
been an economic, if I can use the word, game changer, for
Pennsylvania, but it's hit on all levels.
So the climate piece. Pennsylvania has seen a 32 percent
reduction in NOx, SOx and mercury.
Senator Cassidy. I only have about 30 seconds left.
Mr. Powelson. Yes.
Senator Cassidy. And you attribute that to the transition
to natural gas?
Mr. Powelson. I think natural gas is a huge driver in that.
I won't discount, though, renewables.
Senator Cassidy. But as a percent of your overall energy
generation, what percent does renewables? What percent is
natural gas?
Mr. Powelson. Sir, the renewable piece is less than eight
percent of the energy mix and nuclear. Pennsylvania is the
second largest nuclear production----
Senator Cassidy. And your net gas is what percent?
Mr. Powelson. Gas is upwards to about 30 percent of the
energy mix now.
Senator Cassidy. What we have observed is that if we can
export this gas to other countries, replacing coal in their
fuel mix with our natural gas, we create jobs here, but we also
lower their greenhouse gas emissions.
Clearly FERC will be instrumental in that because you all
are going to permit those LNG export terminals, correct?
Mr. Powelson. Well, again, on a case-by-case basis with
thorough review and public input? Yes, I think we'll come to
conclusions on these projects.
Senator Cassidy. I will point out that I think you
mentioned earlier, or somebody did, that we are now exporting
gas to Chile and they are trying to use natural gas again to
improve their greenhouse gas emission profile. So for all those
concerned with greenhouse gas emissions, natural gas is the way
to go.
That said, I yield back.
Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Cassidy.
Senator Duckworth.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
Gentlemen, I was deeply alarmed late last year by reports
that the Trump Administration transition team was collecting
names of career civil servants at DOE who worked on climate
change matters.
My concerns only increased when subsequent reports emerged
that the Secretary of Energy was actively working to manipulate
DOE's research efforts to produce studies that advance a non-
scientific partisan agenda.
Mr. Brouillette, do you think it is appropriate for the
Department of Energy to conduct a witch hunt against scientists
who have worked on climate change? I know you were not at the
Department when some of this happened, but do you support that
type of activity or will you disavow it now?
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, Senator, I appreciate the
question.
I, obviously, disavow any witch hunt. That is not our
intention. I am not familiar with the activities of the
Department. I am aware that a letter was sent to federal
employees within the building. I read the press accounts of
that and I did see Secretary Perry's testimony to that effect.
I'm aware that I don't think he asked for that. I can assure
you that if I am confirmed, that is not something I will
pursue.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you.
As the Chief Operating Officer of the Department, will you
protect career civil servants who are doing important
scientific research from political interference and politically
motivated budget cuts?
Mr. Brouillette. Yes.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you and thank you also for your
service.
Let me just say it speaks well of you that you come to this
from USAA--as many of my fellow veterans and I call it, the
``Mother Ship.''
[Laughter.]
Senator Duckworth. You certainly know customer service, so
thank you for----
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you for that and thank you for your
service as well.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you.
This next question is for Mr. Chatterjee and Mr. Powelson.
Approximately 30 states have passed renewable portfolio
standards and multiple states, including Illinois, have adopted
policies who support existing nuclear power plants. We are the
number one.
[Laughter.]
States are enacting these policies for a wide variety of
reasons, including energy diversity, environmental benefits and
economic development. These policies were passed by state
legislatures and I know this was discussed, but do you agree
that state legislature is the appropriate place for these
policies to be decided? As FERC Commissioners, would you act to
preempt these laws as some have suggested?
Mr. Powelson. Senator, thank you for your question.
And this is an issue that is probably coming before the
Commission, so I don't want to prejudge it but your question
about--I'm a states' rights individual.
Senator Duckworth. Great.
Mr. Powelson. And I respect, I'm familiar with what
Governor Rauner signed into law to support those nuclear
plants.
If we're talking about climate, I will say at a high level,
nuclear power is part of that energy mix. We're going to need
it.
So as this comes our way, I just pledge to you that I will
keep an open mind. I always come from the idea or the
philosophy of do no harm to the states. We should--we don't
want people losing jobs, and we want these units to run because
we want the clean energy resource, the base load resource.
So again, looking at the technical conference that
Chairwoman LaFleur put together, I thought was a good first
step. And then we'll, obviously, have a discussion, I think, as
a FERC Commission on what the next iteration or the
conversation is at the higher policy level.
Senator Duckworth. Well, we are deeply concerned in
Illinois that there would be any moves that would prohibit the
state from being able to provide clean energy incentives to our
nuclear power plants which would then cause them to have to
shut down and we would lose those jobs. Yes?
Mr. Chatterjee. Thank you for the question, Senator.
As I stated earlier, I believe in states' rights. I believe
in local communities making these determinations. I also
believe that to ensure safe, affordable and reliable
electricity delivery, we need fuel diversity. And I understand
that there are some very complex questions around how to
maintain that fuel diversity with some of the market challenges
that we face.
To echo Commissioner Powelson, I understand FERC had a
technical conference on this earlier this month and, should I
be fortunate enough to be confirmed, I know this is one of the
critical matters that will come before the Commission and I
will certainly look very closely at it and have an open mind as
I go into it.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you.
This next question is for all three witnesses. Do you agree
that human activities are warming the planet or will you
advance the Trump Administration position that mandates climate
change is not real or a problem deserving of attention? Which
one is it? I believe that this will affect your role.
Mr. Powelson. Senator, thank you for the question.
I am not a climate denier, so I recognize that there's
human activity. CO2 emissions is a big, very big, public policy
discussion and I will let you know that in my state, as I've
mentioned to you, we're very proud of where we're going with
our energy policy and it recognizes reductions in CO2.
I will just let you know, one statistic which is amazing
about the U.S. right now, for the first time since 1970 in this
country, the U.S. power sector had lower CO2 emissions than the
transportation sector. So that tells me we're seeing market-
based outcomes toward decarbonization, and I think it's a good
thing for the environment.
Senator Duckworth. Or from the Clean Power Plan which the
Trump Administration is now actively working to reverse.
Mr. Chatterjee. Senator, to your question, I think it is
important to look at, should I be fortunate to be confirmed,
what role I would play at FERC.
FERC's instrumental role is in overseeing reliability. I
think that any policy put forward by Congress or the
Administration that would seek to mitigate carbon emissions
would have to ensure that it not have a negative impact on
reliability. And I think it's key for public acceptance that
there not be a negative impact on reliability.
And should those policies be put forward, I would certainly
work very closely with proponents of the policy to ensure that
that reliability impact not, that there not be a negative
impact of reliability.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you.
Mr. Brouillette?
Mr. Brouillette. Quite simply, Senator, the climate is
changing, and we're all living here so we must have some
impact.
I look forward to working with you, if confirmed, to find
out what we might do with the DOE labs to help us understand
the impact more clearly and perhaps in the future, perhaps
balance some of the actions that we take.
Senator Duckworth. Thank you.
Madam Chairwoman, thank you, you have been very generous.
The Chairman. Senator Risch, you came in next.
Senator Risch. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman.
First of all, let me say that I think all three of these
nominees we have in front of us are highly qualified people,
and I think the President should be commended for his choices
in these areas. I want to particularly thank you for being
willing to take on this public service.
I am particularly grateful to have Mr. Brouillette where he
is. He has, on a very parochial basis, I know you would never
do this, Madam Chairman, but on a very parochial basis, he has
an in-depth understanding of what happens at the Idaho National
Laboratory. He has a long history there. I look forward to
working with him on some of the challenges we have there and
also in cultivating the great work that the lab does for the
American people and really for the world in the areas they work
in.
So----
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Risch. Thank you, again, all of you, for being
willing to serve.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Flake.
Senator Flake. Thank you.
Sorry I was not here for much of the testimony, but I
appreciate the meeting in my office with Mr. Brouillette.
I wanted to talk about WAPA, the Western Area Power
Association. As you know, it is the power marketing
administration that falls under your purview at DOE, and we
have been working to bring some clarity and transparency that
is lacking.
We believe that WAPA, now Secretary Perry, committed to
ensuing transparency there, and you and I discussed that
earlier this week in my office. But you described, at that
point, your role as running the day-to-day operations at the
Department. How will that impact and what do you plan to do
with regards to PMAs?
Mr. Brouillette. Well, sir, I think--and thank you as well
for the opportunity to meet with you earlier this week. I
really appreciated that.
My role, as the Deputy Secretary of Energy, should I be
confirmed, is to be the Chief Operating Officer, it is to
operate the agency from day-to-day, and that would include
compliance with the federal law. It would also include, I'm
sorry, I misspoke there, with the rules and regulations of the
Department and included in that or complies with Whistle Blower
Acts and the rules and regulations of the Department.
I can commit to you that we will work together, if
confirmed, to increase the transparency at WAPA, to fix some of
the issues that we know or I've read about in the paper and to
ensure that there is strict compliance with the Whistle Blower
Acts.
Senator Flake. Thank you.
There is a long history of American development and
innovation in energy technologies, as we all know, and the
Department's research programs have played an important role in
this area. Historically, these research programs have had
greatest impact when they were focused on clear and specific
goals, like when the world's first nuclear plant was developed
in under a year. Goals can also focus resources in times of
declining budgets and tight budgets as we face today.
How do you think that DOE research programs can benefit by
establishing specific goals on such things as advanced nuclear
reactors or grid scale storage that can take advantage of the
intermittent power generation that we have today, particularly
with renewables?
Mr. Brouillette. I think renewables are an important
component of where we're going to be, not only five years from
now, but tomorrow. It's moving very, very fast, as we mentioned
earlier in other testimony on the Committee, and the base load,
other issues are changing very, very rapidly within the energy
space.
With regard to the labs, if confirmed I look forward to
working with them to ensure that their technology moves to
market quicker. I'm going to, hopefully, take some of the
business experience that I've had and define very measurable,
or at least put together very measurable metrics that we can
use to gauge their performance. That's something, I think,
they've done pretty well in the past, and I look forward to
working with them to improve that.
Senator Flake. Well, great. Obviously we want to take
advantage of the intermittent generation, particularly
renewables, but without grid scale storage at this point, we
want carbon-free base load and a lot of that comes with
nuclear.
Mr. Brouillette. It does.
Senator Flake. But until we can have the advanced
technologies that allow these plants to throttle down in the
appropriate times, then we are not going to fully take
advantage here.
Let me talk about the licensing process for a minute with
the other two gentlemen. Nuclear power plants are critical,
obviously, as we said, and not emitting base load generation.
How do you envision FERC addressing the current market
issues of maintaining reliability and recognizing the states'
interests in supporting carbon-free generation while
maintaining a reliable, carbon-free generation with a reliable
portfolio without cost-effective, as I said, commercially
available grid scale storage at this point?
Mr. Powelson. Senator, thank you for your question. If
confirmed, I would, obviously, get myself immersed in what took
place in the first week of May here with the technical
conference.
We all know at a macro level what's going on. I mean, a lot
of these nuclear units are being displaced economically in
markets because of, what I considered the Pennsylvania
phenomena of $1.92 per MM BTU gas coming out of the well head.
And in my state what's happening is these stand-alone reactors
are under tremendous pressure to clear in the market construct.
What we're also seeing though is nuclear units that are
going through relicensing projects and that's a good thing, but
we've only built three new nuclear units right now in the
country. And I remember sitting in a room with one of your
colleagues, Senator Lamar Alexander, when we were talking in
2008 about the nuclear renaissance.
And so today, three new reactors. We are seeing these
uprates take place at existing reactors, but it seems to be
these stand-alone reactors are under tremendous pressure
because of cheap natural gas and honestly there's issues with
wind, negative wind, pricing at night creating what was once
considered a too-cheap-to-meter unit of power production being
under siege by the integration of new renewables into the grid.
So, just to answer your question, I think it's going to be
critically important for the FERC to, kind of, look at all the
moving parts of this public policy issue and figure out a way,
probably work with the NRC and other groups, DOE, through the
grid study, how do we keep these things viable.
Senator Flake. Great.
Mr. Chatterjee. Just quickly, to that Senator, I strongly
believe in the need for fuel diversity.
We need it all. We need nukes, we need renewables, we need
hydro, we need coal, we need gas, and we need these innovative
technologies.
Senator Flake. Well, thank you.
A post note, we need a part of DOE to make sure that we
focus our resources on research to get to these new modular,
smaller units that can throttle down and take advantage, as I
said, of intermittent generation.
Then on the licensing side with FERC, we really need to
move more quickly than we have in the past to bring these new
technologies to the market.
Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Flake.
Senator Barrasso and then Senator King.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman.
Congratulations to all of you.
Mr. Brouillette, I would like to ask you about foreign
control of American businesses. It was reported in the Wall
Street Journal last week that the state-owned, Russian oil
company may be in a position to take over U.S. energy assets of
Citgo, if Citgo's parent company defaults on its debt. Its
energy assets in the United States include refineries,
pipelines, numerous petroleum platforms, foreign investment in
the U.S., especially by an adversary like Russia has national
security implications.
So the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States
(CFIUS) is charged with, as you know, reviewing transactions
that could result in control of a U.S. business by a foreign
entity. CFIUS is authorized to block transactions or to impose
conditions on a transaction in order to mitigate any threat to
our nation's security. The Secretary of Energy and by
delegation, the Deputy Secretary, is a member of CFIUS. The
Russia/Citgo deal is deeply concerning to me because it would
place critical U.S. energy assets under the control of a
foreign adversary.
Can you just share with us some of your thoughts on this
and what reassurance you may want to be able to give me and to
give all of us in terms of what steps you will take to ensure
that the Russia/Citgo deal does not pose a threat to our
nation's security?
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, Senator. Thank you for the
question.
I am familiar with the CFIUS process. Unfortunately, I am
not familiar with the details around this particular deal. And
if confirmed, I can commit to you to work closely with you.
But respectfully, sir, I would like to take that question
for the record, so I would have the opportunity to learn more
about it before I make a public comment about it.
Senator Barrasso. We will be happy to get you that report
that came out in the Wall Street Journal last week.
Mr. Brouillette. Thank you, sir.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
For the other two nominees, and we can start with Mr.
Powelson and then I will ask you, Mr. Chatterjee, to jump in.
In 1978 Congress passed the Public Utility Regulation
Policies Act, commonly known as PURPA. It was a response to
skyrocketing oil prices at the time caused by the oil embargo
of 1973. The goal was to reduce the use of foreign oil in power
generation, to provide the U.S. with greater energy
independence. To achieve that goal, this legislation required
all electric utilities, including municipal utilities and rural
electric cooperatives, to purchase all electric power made
available from renewable power generation resources known as
qualifying facilities.
Well, times have changed since 1978. The energy industry
has experienced revolutionary changes in fuel supply, in
production and in regulation and in particular, renewable
resource generation is now increased substantially. About 15
percent of all U.S. electrical generation is from renewable
sources. The oil, on the other hand, has decreased from 16
percent of U.S. electric generation back when this law was
passed to less than one percent today.
Due to these revolutionary changes, some have called on
FERC to reform its regulations with regard to PURPA and to
reflect current industry conditions. Could both of you weigh in
on what changes you might plan to make to FERC's PURPA
regulations?
Mr. Powelson. Senator, thank you for the question.
I think you teed it up nicely. I mean, PURPA is a 1978
vintage document. It was addressing a scarcity issue and here
we are today, as I mentioned in prior comments, we're leaning
toward energy independence and the generation mix has changed
dramatically. I'm aware that the FERC has sought or has
instituted a technical conference months back, or maybe a year
ago, seeking comment.
I come from a state that we very much believe in what we
call ``least cost procurement'' because again, on the consumer
protection side we want to, you know, not put our thumb on the
scale, but we want those resources, the least cost, to provide
that benefit to the consumer.
So I would pledge to you, if confirmed, I mean, I say this
respectfully, a congressional review of PURPA, a PURPA 2.0
doctrine may be part of a potential energy bill. But for now, I
think, if confirmed, I would do my part to look at the record
and see how, what's working in PURPA and what's not.
Senator Barrasso. Mr. Chatterjee?
Mr. Chatterjee. Thank you for the question, Senator.
To echo what Commissioner Powelson says, I understand that
FERC did undertake a technical conference on this matter within
the last year. Should I be fortunate enough to be confirmed, I
will certainly work with my colleagues to review the findings
of that conference.
But I will say that any major changes to PURPA would be
made by Congress. And while you have my assurance I would work
very seriously on these issues, should I be confirmed, I think
any major changes need to come from this body and not from
FERC.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Barrasso.
Senator King.
Senator King. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Welcome, gentlemen, thank you for your willingness to serve
our country.
Mr. Brouillette, I am very concerned about the depth of
cuts to the Department of Energy that are proposed in the
President's budget. I understand that you are not a member of
the Administration yet and that you will, I presume, honor the
decisions made here in the Congress in terms of what those
budgets ultimately look like.
Here is what we are talking about: ARPA-E, Advanced
Research Projects Agency, eliminated, gone; Advanced Technology
Vehicle Manufacturing, gone; research program cuts; Office of
Science, 17 percent cut; Office of Energy Efficiency and
Renewable Energy, cut by 70 percent; and this is the one that
really bothers me, Office of Electricity Delivery and Energy
Reliability, cut by 48 percent.
We had a hearing in this room about two weeks ago about the
grave risk of disruption of our grid by malign actors via
cyber. To be cutting the Office of Electricity Delivery and
Energy Reliability by almost 50 percent is irresponsible in the
extreme.
So also fossil fuel energy research and development, cut by
58 percent.
These cuts are absolutely unacceptable, and they are
cutting in exactly the wrong place. It was the research funds
from the Department of Energy that helped give us the fracking
revolution that has revolutionized the energy situation in this
country, and to cut these kinds of funds so dramatically is
just shortsighted.
Now I expect, I hope, what you are going to tell me is you
will enforce the law, you will implement the law and you will,
if these funds are re-appropriated by this Congress, you will
steward them appropriately according to the instructions of the
Congress. Is that correct?
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir, that's exactly what I'm going to
tell you.
Senator King. Thank you.
[Laughter.]
Thank you for finding a question buried in there.
[Laughter.]
But----
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir.
Senator King. I am not making a speech here, I am sincerely
worried about this. I am on the Intelligence and Armed Services
Committees and I can tell you our grid is a target.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir.
Senator King. And to be cutting funds that involve grid
reliability is just not prudent in any way, shape or form.
I guess for our FERC nominees, I understand there has
already been--and I apologize for coming in and out. I have
three hearings this morning at the same time, minor hearings,
Armed Services and Budget, so I do apologize. But I hope that
FERC will look at the distribution system and look at the
issues involved with distributed energy, demand response
because, I think, that is an important part of the future of
our energy system and we have to find a way to value it
appropriately and not allow the development of, what I believe,
is a national security development by decentralizing the grid
to be artificially constrained by arbitrary fees and costs that
are designed not to reflect true cost, but are designed to
impede the development of this important part of our energy
sector.
Mr. Powelson, your thoughts?
Mr. Powelson. Well, thank you, Senator, for the question.
And again, I appreciated the opportunity to meet with you and
your staff.
This is really where we're headed as a country with
recognizing this diverse energy portfolio and states are
driving that. So as you and I talked, I mean, combined heat and
power systems, demand side management tools for residential
consumers and industrial customers is really a good thing and
it's part of this new energy mix.
And I can pledge to you that, you know, look at our
Pennsylvania experience. I mentioned earlier in the hearing,
utilities have been close to $1 billion on these programs with
a net value to customers or what we call a total resource cost
value of $1.8 billion in benefit to consumers.
Senator King. Pretty good return on investment.
Mr. Powelson. That's a pretty good return, you're right.
And so, if confirmed, I will pledge to you my continued support
for distributed energy resources and the value they play.
And I want to commend the former FERC Chairman, Norman Bay.
One of the things that he did was to start a docket around fast
start resources and creating a value food chain for those
resources in the markets.
I told you earlier, my experience with Hurricane Sandy and
how these resources played a critical role in grid resiliency
is so important. You mentioned cyber as well. So these are all
part of this new, what I consider, 21st century landscape.
Senator King. Finally, Mr. Brouillette, the Department has,
particularly through the labs, established some important
relationships to us in Maine at our University of Maine with
Oak Ridge, for example. I believe those labs are national
treasures and should be protected and preserved. I also hope
that you will commit to me to maintain those relationships. I
would like to invite you to Maine to visit the University of
Maine composites lab and see the work that they are doing with
Oak Ridge which is really extraordinary.
Mr. Brouillette. Yes, sir.
I'd be honored. If confirmed, I'd be honored to join you in
Maine. And yes, I will continue to be an advocate.
Senator King. I look forward to introducing you to some of
your kinfolk in the St. John family.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Brouillette. I look forward to it as well, sir. Thank
you.
Senator King. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator King.
Gentlemen, thank you for being here this morning. I
certainly have additional questions, but like Senator King, I
have another Committee hearing that I am expected to attend. I
know that many of our members will have questions, and we ask
that they be submitted for the record by the close of business
today. We would anticipate and expect your prompt responses.
As I indicated in my initial statement this morning, my
hope is to be able to advance your names quickly, along with
that of Mr. Bernhardt, so that we can process these nominees
for the FERC and DOE and allow for business to proceed.
We thank you for your willingness to serve. We thank your
families that support you every day and to the children that
have been here, you have been extraordinarily well behaved. I
think you set a fine example for grownups, so we appreciate
that a great deal.
[Laughter.]
With that, ladies and gentlemen, we stand adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:52 a.m. the hearing was adjourned.]
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