    [Senate Hearing 115-38]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                             S. Hrg. 115-38

                              PENDING LEGISLATION

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                                WATER AND POWER

                                     OF THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                         ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                       on

                               S. 440         S. 1012
                               S. 677         S. 1029
                               S. 685         S. 1030
                               S. 930

                                   __________

                                 JUNE 14, 2017

                                   __________

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                           Printed for the use of the
                   Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                                 _________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

     25-979                 WASHINGTON : 2018

                   COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                        LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
    JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
    MIKE LEE, Utah                       BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
    JEFF FLAKE, Arizona                  DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
    STEVE DAINES, Montana                AL FRANKEN, Minnesota
    CORY GARDNER, Colorado               JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
    LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee           MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
    JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota            MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
    BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
    ROB PORTMAN, Ohio                    TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
    LUTHER STRANGE, Alabama              CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada
                                     ------

                        Subcommittee on Water and Power

                              JEFF FLAKE, Chairman

    JOHN BARRASSO                        ANGUS S. KING, JR.
    JAMES E. RISCH                       RON WYDEN
    MIKE LEE                             BERNARD SANDERS
    BILL CASSIDY                         AL FRANKEN
    ROB PORTMAN                          JOE MANCHIN III
    LUTHER STRANGE                       TAMMY DUCKWORTH

                          Colin Hayes, Staff Director
                    Patrick J. McCormick III, Chief Counsel
                    Lane Dickson, Professional Staff Member
               Angela Becker-Dippmann, Democratic Staff Director
                    Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
            Melanie Stansbury, Democratic Professional Staff Member

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page
    Hoeven, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from North Dakota..............     1
    King, Jr., Hon. Angus S., Subcommittee Ranking Member and a U.S.
      Senator from Maine.............................................     3

                                   WITNESSES

    Cameron, Scott, Acting Assistant Secretary--Water and Science,
      U.S. Department of the Interior................................     5
    Gabriel, Mark A., Administrator, Western Area Power
      Administration.................................................    22
    Sell, Hon. Jeff, Mayor, City of Harlowton, Montana, and Board
      Member, Central Montana Regional Water Authority...............    27
    Davis, Tom, General Manager, Yuma County Water Users' Association    45
    Fisher, Tom, President, Patterson Lake Homeowners Association....    51
    Hamman, Mike A., Chief Executive Officer, Middle Rio Grande
      Conservancy District...........................................    56
    Wynn, Christopher, Vice President, Northeast Operations,
      Brookfield Renewable...........................................    63

              ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

    American Rivers:
        Letter for the Record........................................    99
    Audubon New Mexico:
        Letter for the Record........................................   106
    Cameron, Scott:
        Opening Statement............................................     5
        Written Testimony............................................     7
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................    96
    City of Dickinson (North Dakota):
        Letter for the Record........................................    80
    Daines, Hon. Steve:
        Photo from Roundup, Montana..................................    85
    Davis, Tom:
        Opening Statement............................................    45
        Written Testimony............................................    47
    Dickinson Parks & Recreation:
        Letter for the Record........................................    79
    Dry-Redwater Regional Water Authority:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   109
    Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC):
        Letter for the Record........................................    73
    Fisher, Tom:.....................................................
        Opening Statement............................................    51
        Written Testimony............................................    54
    Gabriel, Mark A.:
        Opening Statement............................................    22
        Written Testimony............................................    24
    Hamman, Mike A.:
        Opening Statement............................................    56
        Written Testimony............................................    58
    Hoeven, Hon. John:
        Opening Statement............................................     1
    King, Jr., Hon. Angus S.:
        Opening Statement............................................     3
    (The) Nature Conservancy:
        Letter for the Record........................................   126
    North Dakota Game & Fish Department:
        Letter for the Record........................................    78
    Ohkay Owingeh (New Mexico):
        Statement for the Record.....................................   129
    Pueblo de Cochiti (New Mexico):
        Statement for the Record.....................................   133
    Pueblo of San Felipe (New Mexico):
        Statement for the Record.....................................   138
    Sell, Hon. Jeff:
        Opening Statement............................................    27
        Written Testimony............................................    29
    Stark County (North Dakota) Board of Commissioners:
        Letter for the Record........................................    81
    Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   141
    Trout Unlimited:
        Letter for the Record........................................   145
    Wynn, Christopher:
        Opening Statement............................................    63
        Written Testimony............................................    65

    ----------
    The text for each of the bills which were addressed in this hearing can
    be found on the Committee's website at: https://www.energy.senate.gov/
    public/index.cfm/2017/6/subcommittee-legislative-hearing-to-receive-
    testimony-on-various-bills.

                              PENDING LEGISLATION

                                  ----------

                            WEDNESDAY, JUNE 14, 2017

                                   U.S. Senate,
                       Subcommittee on Water and Power,
                     Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:25 p.m. in
    Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John Hoeven,
    presiding.

                OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN HOEVEN,
                     U.S. SENATOR FROM NORTH DAKOTA

        Senator Hoeven [presiding]. This hearing will come to
    order. This is a hearing of the Energy and Natural Resources
    Subcommittee on Water and Power.
        I am joined by Senator King, the Ranking Member, and also
    Senator Heinrich. Thank you both for being here.
        I am filling in, of course, for Senator Jeff Flake, who is
    the Chairman on this Subcommittee. For obvious reasons, he is
    unable to be here. He, his family and our other associates,
    certainly Representative Scalise and the staff are tremendous.
    The U.S. Capitol Police and all law enforcement are in our
    thoughts and prayers during this very sobering day here on
    Capitol Hill.
        We thank all of you for being with us. There is a vote
    going on, which is not unusual around here. There is always a
    lot, it seems, going on at the same time. We will have people
    coming and going based on that vote, but we will go ahead and
    proceed with the hearing. We know, in some cases, that you had
    to come back due to schedule changes in earlier hearings. We
    apologize for the fact that you had to come back, but we
    appreciate it very much and thank you again for being here.
        The purpose of today's hearing is to receive testimony on
    seven bills pending before the Subcommittee, and I am Chairing,
    as I said, in place of Senator Flake.
        The jurisdiction of the Subcommittee ranges from the Bureau
    of Reclamation, agencies that market federal hydropower, and
    our Ranking Member just informed me that he was formerly in the
    federal hydropower business so I would think he has a very good
    perspective on it. Of course, the Subcommittee's jurisdiction
    also covers the Bureau of Reclamation projects throughout the
    Great Plains, dams in the Pacific Northwest and hydropower
    facilities in the Northeast.
        After the unfortunate cancellation of this hearing last
    month, today we will hear about a number of bills that cover
    the full range of this Subcommittee's jurisdiction including S.
    440, which is my legislation related to land surrounding
    Patterson Lake. I am also very pleased to have the support of
    my colleague from North Dakota, Senator Heitkamp, on that bill
    as co-sponsor.
        S. 440 is a result of a lot of work by landowners, excuse
    me, we hope soon-to-be landowners, homeowners around Patterson
    Lake who have gotten together and worked in a cooperative way
    to come up with, what I think, is a very good, common sense
    solution. Our role is to help support our citizens around the
    country, and this is a great example of where we have that
    opportunity to empower them because they have been able to work
    together and come to a very good solution. I have had the
    privilege to attend some of their meetings, listen and really
    understand what their concept is and provide some feedback, but
    again, commend them on their ability to come together with a
    good solution.
        This bill is a result of various stakeholders looking at
    all aspects of the land conveyance and coming to a workable
    solution, recognizing that it has to work not only for them but
    for the City of Dickinson, for Stark County where they live,
    the State of North Dakota and for the Federal Government who,
    of course, represents all of the other citizens of this great
    nation of more than 300 million people.
        In addition to the primary water supply purpose of this
    project based on its original construction, the Dickinson
    Reservoir, which is Lake Patterson, has a public recreation
    purpose and lands on the south side of the reservoir were
    leased to individuals for part-time or full-time cabin
    construction. The City of Dickinson has transitioned to
    obtaining their drinking water from the Southwest Water
    Authority, but the recreation and residential uses of the
    contiguous lands remain a viable benefit to the citizens of
    Dickinson and the surrounding area.
        Since 1953, the Dickinson Parks and Recreation has worked
    cooperatively with the Bureau of Reclamation to manage the
    Patterson Lake Recreational Area. Over several decades they
    have worked hard to increase and enhance recreational
    opportunities as well as support public accessibility.
        I have been there and I have seen the area. It really is a
    beautiful area and an example of where the Federal Government
    coming in and actually building a dam has really created not
    only a beautiful lake, but just a beautiful surrounding area
    that is used for many purposes--not only residential but
    recreational and really an asset for the community and our
    state.
        We will also hear testimony on a bipartisan bill, the
    Western Area Power Administration (WAPA) Transparency Act.
    There have been financial challenges at WAPA and they have made
    some progress with transparency but more needs to be done. The
    bill directs WAPA to continue those efforts that their
    customers deserve.
        Also on the agenda today is the reintroduced Water Supply
    Permitting Coordination Act. Although we were fortunate to have
    healthy snowpack this year, the prolonged drought we have just
    experienced should illustrate the need for water storage and
    supply infrastructure. This bill sets out a streamlined process
    led by the Bureau of Reclamation to aid the construction on
    water supply projects.
        We have two hydropower bills from Senator King that shed
    light on additional opportunities to produce clean, renewable
    hydropower and to speed up the permitting process for
    hydropower projects. The New Mexico delegation introduced a
    drought bill that we will also consider.
        From the challenges of building new water supply projects
    across the West to the hydropower issues faced by customers
    from the West to Northern Maine, these bills provide a good
    example of the range of issues that this Subcommittee deals
    with.
        I would now turn to Senator King for any remarks that he
    might like to make.

                 STATEMENT OF HON. ANGUS S. KING, JR.,
                        U.S. SENATOR FROM MAINE

        Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am delighted to
    see all of you, and I thank you and appreciate your coming back
    so that we can hold this important hearing.
        As the Chairman stated, the breadth of issues that this
    Committee deals with is quite broad, and it is clear from the
    range of witnesses here who have come from across the country
    to provide information that there are unique needs in each
    region of the country, but some common areas of agreement.
        I especially want to thank Mr. Wynn for being here.
    Brookfield has a very large presence in Maine, where hydropower
    is nearly 25 percent of our total energy production. I
    appreciate Brookfield's perspective on the matters we are going
    to cover today as we talk about important hydropower issues,
    both in the Northeast and across the country.
        I do not want to start the Subcommittee hearing without
    acknowledging the leadership of Senator Flake and the idea that
    we intend to operate in a totally bipartisan--I should say
    since I am neither Democrat nor Republican--non-partisan way. I
    look forward to working with Chairman Flake. We are already the
    co-sponsors of each other's bills before this Committee today.
        Hydropower, I think, is often forgotten as one of America's
    most important energy sources and most important renewable
    energy sources. Conventional hydropower, as we all know it,
    accounts for six or seven percent, which is significant, of our
    total energy production in the country, and it is something
    that is important, both in terms of critical renewable baseload
    power, but also in terms of the fact that it is renewable and
    sustainable.
        Hydropower can be expensive, however, particularly in the
    capital area. I think that is one of the things we are going to
    talk about today--that hydropower, like wind power, is capital
    intensive but operationally cheap. Once the capital is
    advertised and supported then the power is there into the
    indefinite future. Part of that capital cost, however, is
    licensing and permitting costs, and that has to be recognized
    as a significant part of what is, ultimately, the price of the
    power. Therefore, what we have to try to manage is to maximize
    environmental protection and environmental benefit and minimize
    costs and time involved so that we can achieve important
    renewable energy benefits from hydropower at a cost that
    customers can afford and also in a time that makes sense for
    getting these important resources on the grid.
        As some of you may know, I spent some of my first
    professional years in the hydropower business in New England.
    In 1983, I worked with a small company that developed
    hydropower around New England. Later we did biomass and later
    on in my career I've done wind power and also conservation. So
    I may be one of the few people around here who has actually
    applied to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) for
    a permit--and actually, I think it was for an exemption. But I
    do understand the process and look forward to working with all
    of you and with my colleagues in order to make that process as
    efficient as possible while emphasizing the importance of our
    regulatory process in terms of environmental protection.
        I have to pause at this moment and tell a story that I
    think some of you may appreciate. I was once working on the
    licensing of a hydro project somewhere in the Northeast--and I
    won't identify the state--but we were sitting around the table
    discussing this project and the head of the environmental
    agency was talking about his concerns about the project. It
    suddenly dawned on all of us sitting around the table, both
    staff and people working on the project, that this fellow
    thought that once water went into a turbine it never came out.
        [Laughter.]
        That we were, in fact, using up the river. It was one of
    those situations where nobody knows how we are going to break
    this to him, but we did. That is an absolutely true story.
        Senator Hoeven. Like a black hole.
        Senator King. Yes, that is right.
        So, I really appreciate, again, your being here today. I
    look forward to your testimony and am delighted to be working
    on, what I consider, one of our most important energy issues.
        With that, Mr. Chairman, I will turn it back to you.
        Senator Hoeven. Senator Heinrich, any opening statement you
    might have?
        Senator Heinrich. I think the problem was that Senator King
    used steam turbine.
        [Laughter.]
        No. I want to welcome Mr. Hamman from New Mexico who has
    joined us today. He's got a great perspective, having been on
    multiple sides of some of these issues and now represents the
    conservancy district but previously was at the Bureau and knows
    the level of cooperation and coordination it takes to solve
    some of these issues.
        I am looking forward to hearing their testimony.
        Senator Hoeven. Alright, then we will begin the panel with
    Mr. Scott Cameron, the Acting Assistant Secretary for Water and
    Science in the Department of the Interior. We appreciate, Mr.
    Cameron, the work that you have been doing in the water and
    science function of the Department, especially on the Colorado
    River, and look forward to your confirmation. Go ahead and
    proceed.

     STATEMENT OF SCOTT CAMERON, ACTING ASSISTANT SECRETARY--WATER
              AND SCIENCE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

        Mr. Cameron. Mr. Chairman, Senator King, Senator Heinrich,
    I want to thank you, first of all, for the opportunity to
    testify before you today on four of the bills pending before
    the Subcommittee. I am Scott Cameron, Acting Assistant
    Secretary for Water and Science at the Department of the
    Interior.
        In the interest of time, I will summarize the Department's
    views on these four bills and submit my full testimony on each
    bill for the record.
        S. 440, as the Chairman knows, would provide a path for
    permitted cabin owners in the Dickinson Parks and Recreation
    Department to take ownership of certain federal lands in the
    State of North Dakota. The legislation will allow for flexible
    management of the lands to meet local needs and alleviate the
    administrative cost of oversight and management of the land.
        I would like to reemphasize the Secretary's staunch
    commitment against the sale or wide-scale transfer of federal
    lands. As he stated at this Committee throughout his
    confirmation process, the Secretary firmly holds that our
    treasured public lands are to be maintained and preserved for
    the benefit and enjoyment of the people. The Department is
    quite willing to work with Congress to ensure proposals like S.
    440 preserve access and recreation for future generations. My
    written testimony recommends a few changes to S. 440 to provide
    additional clarity and protections.
        S. 677 directs the Secretary of the Interior to coordinate
    federal and state permitting processes related to the
    construction of new surface water storage projects on lands
    managed by the Interior and the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
        We welcome efforts to streamline and expedite the approval
    of new surface water storage projects. The President's 2018
    budget request includes an infrastructure initiative aiming to
    explore long-term reforms on how infrastructure projects are
    regulated, funded, delivered and maintained. In particular, the
    initiative acknowledges the current environmental review and
    permitting processes' lack of cohesiveness, often making
    infrastructure projects more costly, unpredictable and time-
    consuming, all while adding little environmental protection.
    This initiative dovetails into the goals set forth in S. 677.
    The Department supports the goals of S. 677 and recommends a
    few amendments which are detailed in my written statement.
        S. 685 would authorize construction of the Dry-Redwater
    Regional Water Authority System and the Musselshell-Judith
    Rural Water System in the states of Montana and North Dakota.
    The Department supports the goals on encouraging a vibrant,
    rural economy and ensuring safe, reliable sources of drinking
    water. Given the past history and future prospects of funding
    for the rural water program, we are cautious not to raise
    unreasonable expectations for future federal funding should
    this bill become law. The Department has concerns about adding
    to the backlog of Reclamation's already-authorized rural water
    projects that are in queue for federal construction funding
    already. While the Department acknowledges the critical
    functions rural water projects offer to communities across the
    West, we have concerns with S. 685 as written and we would like
    to work with the Committee to address those concerns.
        Last, S. 1012 aims to enhance coordination from water
    acquisition, encourage water conservation, authorize and
    provide for studies and support efforts to provide an annual
    spring peak flow for the Middle Rio Grande in New Mexico.
    Congress has encouraged Reclamation to pursue efforts to
    facilitate agricultural water leasing. In response, Reclamation
    has started a pilot project for leasing and is planning a grant
    opportunity to build and begin testing the framework for a
    leasing program in collaboration with the Middle Rio Grande
    Conservancy District. S. 1012 would provide Reclamation and the
    District with increased flexibility to implement and
    effectively manage such a program. S. 1012 would authorize a
    National Academy of Sciences study of water and reservoir
    management and operation. The study would likely provide water
    managers along the Rio Grande in New Mexico with useful
    information; however, there may be ways this study can build on
    the work of other prior studies. The Department supports many
    elements of S. 1012 but has, again, a few concerns which are
    detailed in my written statement. We would like to work with
    the sponsors and the Committee to address those particular
    concerns.
        Thank you again, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member King, for
    the opportunity to present these views. I would be happy to
    answer questions at the appropriate time.
        [The prepared statements of Mr. Cameron follow:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Secretary Cameron.
        Next we will have Mr. Mark Gabriel, Administrator and CEO
    of the Western Area Power Administration (WAPA).

    STATEMENT OF MARK A. GABRIEL, ADMINISTRATOR, WESTERN AREA POWER
                             ADMINISTRATION

        Mr. Gabriel. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the
    Subcommittee. I am Mark Gabriel, Administrator of the Western
    Area Power Administration, one of four power marketing
    administrations within the Department of Energy, whose role is
    to market and transmit wholesale electricity from 56 hydropower
    dams.
        For the past 40 years WAPA has supplied at-cost electricity
    to hundreds of municipalities, rural electric cooperatives,
    public utilities, irrigation districts, federal and state
    agencies, military installations and Native American tribes.
    Forty million people benefit from the federal hydropower and
    transmission services that WAPA provides. They depend on us to
    provide reliable service, not only today, but also into the
    future.
        Low-cost federal hydropower was a cornerstone in the
    development of the West and remains a key element of the
    economic life in maintaining strong communities. WAPA serves a
    diverse customer base across a 15-state territory the size of
    Paris to Moscow and Athens to Oslo. We are a complex
    organization with 10 rate-setting systems and more than 17,000
    miles of transmission line. We do this offering the lowest-cost
    rates consistent with sound business principles.
        WAPA is committed to transparency, and so am I. In the four
    years that I have served as head of the organization, we have
    proactively taken multiple steps to evolve and increase our
    transparency efforts and we will continue to do so.
        I believe what has prompted this proposed legislation is
    that some of our customers want access to more information that
    informs our planning and operations at our Headquarters office
    and an understanding of how it relates to our annual budget
    and, ultimately, their rates. This is a reasonable request, and
    we are working toward that end with many of our customers
    through multiple processes.
        I understand the customer concern for rates. Our rates,
    however, are extremely competitive. For example, our customers
    in Arizona benefit from rates that are significantly less than
    comparable wholesale rates. In our Upper Great Plains Region,
    customers will be seeing rate reductions in 2018 for the second
    year in a row.
        Now back to our growth. Our Headquarters staff and budget
    has, in fact, grown over the past decade. It is bringing value
    to our organization and customers and keeps us well-positioned
    amid changing times in our dynamic industry. It is aligned with
    our commitment to business excellence and sound business
    practices and enables us to continue delivering on our mission
    and maximize the value of hydropower for all of our customers.
        Our growth in headquarters staff has allowed us to build a
    Continuous Process Improvement Program that has resulted in $34
    million in cost avoidance and cost savings, a 217 percent
    return on the program's investment.
        Some of our ``growth,'' however, is not growth at all, but
    an organizational realignment and shifting of the budget that
    has resulted in increased efficiencies. These changes allow us
    to improve our ability to adhere to mandatory compliance
    standards and laws, such as Critical Infrastructure Protection
    and the Federal Information Technology Acquisition Reform Act.
    Some of our customers may not agree with these changes that we
    have made. I believe it is, in part, because we did not do a
    good enough job communicating early and sufficiently.
        We have already begun to increase transparency,
    specifically regarding our Headquarters budget. I am very proud
    of these efforts that we began three years ago to address
    transparency and communication gaps. Customers have stated they
    are already seeing improvements in how we engage with them on
    budget issues. We are working well with the Mid-West Electric
    Consumers Association, our California customer base and the
    Colorado River Energy Distributors Association. Thanks to our
    customers in Arizona, we are now partners in a Customer
    Technical Committee to address a number of improvement
    opportunities including financial transparency.
        We've developed a more consistent 10-Year Planning process
    across our regional offices, have been hosting annual all-
    customer meetings since 2014, and last year opened up our
    Headquarters 10-Year Planning process to customers with more
    engagement in the coming year. Additionally, we host or attend
    more than 300 meetings with customers annually to share
    information and answer questions.
        Just over a year ago we launched ``The Source,'' a space on
    our website dedicated to sharing operational and auditable
    financial statements. Much of that information was already
    available on our website, but we brought it into one convenient
    location and put it front and center. It includes annual
    reports, presentations, a searchable index of power system
    data, rates information, key topics and customer news.
        We have produced and made available reams of data. We have
    memorandums of understanding with many customer groups,
    agreeing to share and discuss financial information. We are
    more transparent than any organization for which I have worked
    and we are exploring ways to further expand our engagement. Our
    transparency efforts are consistent with the spirit of the
    proposed transparency legislation. We are committed to sharing
    information openly and honestly and providing a mechanism for
    feedback.
        As a public servant charged with leading a federal
    organization, a very large utility, I am ultimately responsible
    for the safe and reliable operation of our large,
    interconnected generation and transmission system. I take my
    responsibility in earnest.
        Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. I
    look forward to answering your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Gabriel follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Administrator.
        Next we will hear from the Honorable Jeff Sell, Mayor of
    Harlowton, Montana.

    STATEMENT OF HON. JEFF SELL, MAYOR, CITY OF HARLOWTON, MONTANA,
       AND BOARD MEMBER, CENTRAL MONTANA REGIONAL WATER AUTHORITY

        Mr. Sell. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member King and members of
    the Subcommittee on Water and Power, my name is Jeff Sell and I
    serve as a Board Member of the Central Montana Regional Water
    Authority (CMRWA) which has been working on the Musselshell-
    Judith Rural Water System project in Montana for over 12 years.
    I also serve as the Mayor of the City of Harlowton, Montana.
        On behalf of the CMRWA and the City of Harlowton, I wish to
    thank the Chairman and the Subcommittee for the opportunity to
    testify on behalf of Senate bill 685, the Clean Water for Rural
    Communities Act. This bill will authorize two regional drinking
    water projects in different areas of our vast State of Montana.
        We want to thank Senator Steve Daines and his dedicated
    staff, who have helped us craft this important legislation. We
    wish to thank bill sponsor Senator Jon Tester and his staff,
    who have provided valuable guidance to our organization over
    the years during the planning of this project. We also want to
    thank Secretary of the Interior, Ryan Zinke, as he was the
    author of this same legislation in the 114th Congress. It is
    our hope that, under his leadership, the Bureau of Reclamation
    will continue to work with us to actually build the
    Musselshell-Judith Rural Water System.
        We turn to you, the United States Congress, to pass Senate
    bill 685 into law and allow us to construct this regional water
    system. The Bureau of Reclamation has deemed our project
    feasible, yet Reclamation told us last year it will not
    recommend the water system for authorization. After 12 years of
    working with Reclamation and finally securing approval of our
    feasibility study from Reclamation, we feel the Federal
    Government's commitment to bringing safe drinking water to our
    community will only be continued if Congress authorizes this
    water system.
        Let me tell you about our project need. The CMRWA is a
    coalition of eight incorporated communities, several
    unincorporated communities and the rural areas within six
    counties in central Montana with a long legacy of poor water
    quality and limited quantity.
        The water system will provide communities and rural
    residents in the region with a reliable supply of high-quality
    drinking water from the Madison aquifer groundwater. The
    groundwater meets all primary and secondary federal drinking
    water standards. Delivering this drinking water will improve
    the health and quality of life of Americans in a large area of
    Montana.
        The CMRWA has already spent nearly $3 million of state,
    local and federal funding on the project to date for test well
    construction, engineering, planning and administration of the
    project. With this investment the CMRWA has completed several
    major milestones including completing its 2,200-foot deep test
    well at Ubet which demonstrated that the adequate quantity of
    high-quality water is available at the preferred well site;
    obtained all the water rights needed for the project;
    demonstrated to the Federal Government that the project has a
    benefit-to-cost ratio of 1.28 to 1; demonstrated that the
    project complies with the National Environmental Policy Act,
    Endangered Species Act and the National Historic Preservation
    Act; and completed and received Reclamation approval for the
    project feasibility report.
        Further, the project area has one of the lowest median
    household incomes in Montana. The low income of this region
    combined with the lack of dense population centers makes it
    very difficult for rural areas to afford drinking water
    infrastructure compared to urban areas.
        We have all heard of the drinking water problem faced in
    the big City of Flint, Michigan, but small towns, ranching
    communities in the West, face similar water problems. Federal
    authorization of this project is absolutely necessary, not only
    to provide safe drinking water but to make the project
    affordable for our residents in Montana.
        In conclusion, the residents, institutions and businesses
    of this region face significant deficiencies with the existing
    water supplies. These deficiencies impact the health and safety
    of residents across this region of Montana. The deficiencies
    with the water supplies also have a significant economic impact
    on these communities that have median household incomes among
    the lowest in Montana.
        We have worked for 12 years with the Bureau of Reclamation
    to become a federally-authorized project; however, after being
    deemed feasible by Reclamation, we were told we must secure
    authorization from Congress to continue.
        We began work on this project system, excuse me, we began
    work on this water system before the Rural Water Supply Act was
    passed in 2006 and implemented in 2008, but we adhered to the
    stipulations outlined in the Act and completed the process.
    Reclamation reports that our project is only one of two
    projects that have successfully completed the feasibility
    process and that is out of 20 applicants that started the
    process under the Act; therefore, we need Congress to authorize
    our project to ensure Reclamation continues to work with us
    through construction.
        Thank you for allowing me to testify on behalf of the CMRWA
    and the City of Harlowton for this critical legislation for our
    region. An adequate quantity of safe drinking water is a basic
    human need that most Americans take for granted. Please support
    our efforts to secure a system that will deliver that same
    promise to our citizens.
        Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Sell follows:]

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        Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mayor Sell.
        Now we will turn to Mr. Tom Davis, the General Manager of
    the Yuma County Water Users' Association in Southwestern
    Arizona.
        Mr. Davis.

                STATEMENT OF TOM DAVIS, GENERAL MANAGER,
                  YUMA COUNTY WATER USERS' ASSOCIATION

        Mr. Davis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member King and
    other members of the Subcommittee. My name is Tom Davis, and
    I'm the Manager of the Yuma County Water Users' Association.
    We're the oldest and the last diverter of Colorado River water
    in the State of Arizona, and we're also a customer of Western
    Area Power Administration.
        I'm here to testify on both Senate bill 930 and Senate bill
    677--930 being the Western Area Power Administration
    Transparency Act, and Senate bill 677, the Water Supply
    Permitting Coordination Act.
        I am in support of Senate bill 930 that requires Western to
    establish within 120 days a public accessible database that
    will provide its customers transparency into the planning,
    budgeting, rate setting, purchasing, staffing, contracting
    process at Western.
        And I want--Mr. Gabriel did a fine job of laying out
    Western's core mission, and I just want to emphasize part of
    that is the fact that Western is required by law to transmit,
    market and transmit power to its customers at the lowest
    possible rate with sound business practices. And now some of
    the customers have witnessed six percent increases in their
    power rates each year for the last five years. We feel that a
    lot of those rate increases aren't due to capital project
    increases but, in fact, is due to probably the operation and
    maintenance, staffing needs in some of the offices.
        The Yuma County Water Users' Association is a priority use
    power customer of Western. We're not a large customer of
    Western and we're not a large entity, but we're 100 percent
    dependent on Western Power. A lot of our uses of that power is
    to pump water into Mexico, into Sonora, Mexico, as part of the
    1944 Treaty between the U.S. and Mexico to supply Mexico its
    proportional share of the Colorado River water.
        This transparency is good for the customers, but the thing
    the customers really want is more input into where these costs
    are going and input into selection of capital improvement
    projects, input into looking at the staffing needs that Western
    has.
        One of the things we've done in the Southwestern office of
    WAPA, out of Phoenix, the customers have formed, as Mr. Gabriel
    mentioned, a Customer Technical Committee. We're working real
    close over Western with the new staff there in Phoenix to
    actually have some valuable input into analyzing the staffing
    needs, the capital improvement projects and both the capital
    and the O&M budgets of Western and that's working out really
    well. We're just beginning that process. I think that has a
    good future. It lets the customers have an understanding of the
    need of Western. And so, I think that's going to be a good
    process.
        One thing I want to mention. This Administration's 2018
    budget proposes the sale of assets of Western and other PMAs to
    private interest. If you recall, that's come up in previous
    Administrations since the 1980s. Congress has always rejected
    that because it's not favorable to the customers. And I
    recommend the same position taken by Congress this time. It's
    not in the customer's interest for these assets to be
    privatized. We bought and paid for those already once in the
    past.
        In regards to Senate bill 677, that's basically the Water
    Supply Permitting Coordination Act--it sets up the Bureau of
    Reclamation as a one-stop shop for new water supply diversion
    projects that's going to be coming up in the West. And the
    Bureau then is in charge of wrangling all the other federal
    agencies that's going to be involved in the NEPA process and
    the permitting process, to give them a timeline to respond to
    their permitting needs. It favors those advocates that are
    needing to get these projects constructed because it sets a
    time limit and it doesn't run us around the horn of having to
    deal with a half a dozen different federal agencies. The Bureau
    is in charge of getting that done, so we really support that
    bill. And also, the main thing that bill does, it allows the
    states to be a player in that process. So it allows the Western
    states to pay into the cost of that process, of the permitting
    process, and also to provide important data and science into
    the process.
        So I'm in favor of both of these bills, and I think there's
    a lot of citizen support in the West, particularly for
    construction of new water and diversion projects. And I hope
    this process can be streamlined to be able to allow those
    projects to be constructed in the next 20 years or so.
        Appreciate you giving me an opportunity to give you my
    thoughts, and I'll be happy to answer any questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Davis follows:]

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        Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Davis.
        Now we will turn to Mr. Fisher, who is President of the
    Patterson Lake Homeowners Association. Thanks for your
    leadership and thanks for coming back--sorry that you had to
    make two trips--but it is great to have you here.
        Mr. Fisher.

                  STATEMENT OF TOM FISHER, PRESIDENT,
                 PATTERSON LAKE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION

        Mr. Fisher. Good afternoon. My name is Tom Fisher. I am
    President of the Patterson Homeowners Association. I am here
    today representing the 41 permit holders who have permanent
    homes along the shores of Patterson Lake near Dickinson in
    southwest North Dakota. We wish to be recorded in strong
    support of Senate bill S. 440.
        The Patterson Homeowners Association would also like to
    thank Senator John Hoeven for his sponsorship and support for
    this important legislation. I would also like to thank the
    fellow members of the Energy and Natural Resources Committee
    for the opportunity to speak to you today about the Senate bill
    S. 440.
        As a brief history, the Dickinson Dam was completed by the
    Bureau of Reclamation in May 1950 which impounds the Heart
    River. The dam, amongst the rolling hills and prairies, created
    the Edward Arthur Patterson Lake, which covers nearly 1,200
    surface acres and 22 miles of shoreline.
        The original purpose of the dam and lake was as a municipal
    water source for the City of Dickinson, with recreation and
    irrigation as secondary usages. In 1991, the City of Dickinson
    began getting their water from Lake Sakakawea through the
    Southwest Pipeline Project and in 1996, the Southwest Water
    Authority was established to take over the management of the
    Southwest Pipeline Project.
        Since that change in 1991, the dam and lake are no longer
    utilized for the primary original purpose of construction.
    Patterson Lake is now used primarily for recreation and adds a
    tremendous quality of life to the City of Dickinson and to the
    surrounding communities.
        Speaking of the quality of life, in the last 15 months I
    have gotten to know all of the homeowners on a very personal
    level. I have heard many stories of barbeques, holiday
    gatherings, graduations and wedding receptions that have taken
    place in our neighborhood. I've also had non-association
    members ask me on a daily basis whether or not we have come up
    with a solution. Those conversations usually end up with me
    hearing about a breathtaking sunset that they have witnessed on
    the lake. Many others have told me about stories of being on
    the lake and how wonderful it is to have a resource like that
    just only minutes from town.
        Patterson Lake and the surrounding area has always been a
    major outdoor recreation destination for the residents of
    Dickinson, Stark County and the region, so continuing public
    access to the lake is important to everyone in the area.
        In our many discussions and interactions with the elected
    members of the Dickinson Park Board and the employees,
    maintaining that public access has always been paramount to
    those discussions and everybody in the community looks forward
    to continuing the usage of the lake, parks, golf course and
    other activities currently available.
        Patterson Lake homeowners have been trying to purchase the
    lots around this lake for over 30 years. Over those years, the
    Patterson Homeowners Association has worked with and had many
    discussions with the local park board, city and county
    officials, along with the North Dakota Game and Fish Department
    and our local state legislators, Governor, as well as both the
    prior and current congressional delegation.
        During that time, each of these individuals has expressed
    support for our efforts. This bill is the culmination of those
    efforts and discussions. We have worked with and met with the
    Bureau of Reclamation, the Park Board Department and officials
    and city and county elected and appointed individuals to
    discuss how we can move forward in a positive manner. Those
    meetings have included the Executive Board of the homeowners
    association, the entire homeowners association membership,
    multiple meetings with staff of our congressional delegation
    and two meetings with Senator Hoeven himself.
        The Patterson Lake Homeowners Association takes very
    seriously the varied interests and concerns of all
    stakeholders, which is why it has been a priority to have
    transparent and constructive meetings to allow for full and
    open discussions.
        The homeowners take significant pride in not only the
    ownership of our homes, but the manner in which we maintain the
    land where our homes sit, as well as the other surrounding
    federal lands bordering our homes. We pay property taxes to
    Stark County and to the Dickinson School District for the
    assessed value of our homes, as well as a small usage tax for
    the land. Additionally, we pay an annual permit fee to the park
    board and these funds have been used to help maintain the
    public lands around the lake. If this bill is approved, we will
    pay additional further property taxes to the county and schools
    for the assessed value of the land, which will further benefit
    the community.
        With the passage of Senate bill S. 440, the homeowners will
    be given the option to buy the land under their permanent
    homes. For most of us, our home is our greatest investment and
    asset. This bill would allow financial lenders to use the land
    and all the improvements the homeowners have made over the
    years as securities. By doing so, this will open the
    opportunities so we can make improvements to utilize the equity
    for whatever purpose we deem necessary and appropriate. For
    example, lenders have now advised us that we can no longer take
    out home improvement loans for our homes or access the equity
    due to not owning the land underneath the structures. Passage
    of S. 440 will not only provide us the opportunity to make
    improvements to our homes, but it will also eliminate financial
    uncertainties.
        We are not asking for a giveaway as this bill will require
    that the land and the purchase price of the land to be
    established based on fair market value through a third-party
    appraiser in the same manner as the value for all other
    properties appraised.
        The Patterson Lake Homeowners Association members are very
    active in the community. Most have been on numerous volunteer
    committees and boards and helped with countless city and county
    projects. The members are tax paying, productive, hardworking
    people who are excellent stewards of the lake and land that we
    choose to enjoy as homeowners.
        We, as homeowners, support the Senate bill S. 440. With
    this bill's passage we too will have the chance to experience
    the American Dream of home ownership and security.
        Thank you for your time.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Fisher follows:]

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        Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Fisher.
        Now we will turn to Mr. Hamman, Chief Engineer and CEO of
    the Middle Rio Grande Conservancy District in New Mexico.

     STATEMENT OF MIKE A. HAMMAN, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, MIDDLE
                    RIO GRANDE CONSERVANCY DISTRICT

        Mr. Hamman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member King
    and members of the Subcommittee for the opportunity to testify
    on the New Mexico Drought Preparedness Act (the Act). I am Mike
    Hamman, the Chief Executive Officer of the Middle Rio Grande
    Conservancy District (the District) and have served in this
    capacity for two and a half years. I have over 32 years of
    public service in Western water resources management including
    18 years with the Bureau of Reclamation, culminating in five
    years as the Area Manager in the Albuquerque area office,
    working primarily on Rio Grande issues.
        This Committee received our detailed written testimony for
    the record supporting this legislation, so I will focus my
    testimony on the very positive developments that have occurred
    in the Middle Rio Grande since this Committee last heard our
    testimony in October 2015.
        I'm very pleased, Mr. Chairman, to inform the Subcommittee
    that along with our partners, the Bureau of Reclamation, the
    Bureau of Indian Affairs, the Fish and Wildlife Service and the
    State of New Mexico, we have successfully negotiated a new
    Biological Opinion (BO) for the Middle Rio Grande that moves us
    away from the highly prescriptive measures of the 2003 BO
    toward a performance-based strategy that will use sound science
    and adaptive management process.
        The four objectives of this 15-year, non-jeopardy,
    Biological Opinion are to: operate the reservoir system to
    create more spring spawn and recruitment flows for the
    endangered silvery minnow; acquire water for summer survival
    flows to help minimize river drying; create and maintain more
    in-river habitat that increases flood plains at lower flows;
    and construct fish passage structures at three district
    diversion dams. Each of these requirements is well supported
    and enhanced by this bill, with these proposed changes and
    authorities for federal partners in the basin.
        Section Five of the Act requires that additional authority
    be afforded to re-operate Cochiti Dam in order to provide
    needed flexibility to meet the first and most important
    objective toward species recovery, particularly during drought
    years. The District strongly supports this critical action
    necessary for long-term survival of the silvery minnow and to
    meet human needs during times of shortage. We urge that Cochiti
    Pueblo will be consulted with early on so that any impacts to
    their lands are addressed thoroughly.
        We also recommend that all six Middle Rio Grande Pueblos be
    consulted regarding this legislation.
        The District is the lead agency engaged in four WaterSMART
    Grants with Reclamation under the 50/50 cost share requirements
    for these programs. We are: developing a drought contingency
    plan with basin stakeholders; performing a pilot on-farm
    efficiency project to encourage more farmers to improve
    irrigation practices; investing $700,000 in cost share for a
    water salvage pumping station that will provide water to
    support river marine habitat and to also supplement irrigation
    during low flow periods, it will be completed by 2018; and we
    have also joined with Reclamation to lead an Upper Rio Grande
    Basin Study from the Colorado border to Elephant Butte Dam
    involving a broad group of basin stakeholders.
        This bill will enhance these types of projects. However,
    given that a Rio Grande Basin Study will be underway soon, we
    suggest that under Section Six, the National Academy of
    Sciences be asked to serve as an independent science panel to
    peer review basin study work in the Rio Grande Basin in lieu of
    conducting its own study as they are restricted from including
    Elephant Butte Reservoir operations that is critical for a
    comprehensive study.
        Reclamation is also partnering with the National Fish and
    Wildlife Foundation and the District to create a pilot Water
    Banking Program for willing lessors of pre-1907 water rights
    within the District. This would be consistent with Section 3 of
    the Act.
        The District fully supports reauthorizing the Secure Water
    Act, and we strongly support reauthorization of the Rio Grande
    Pueblos' Irrigation Infrastructure Improvement Act that will
    continue to provide resources to our Pueblo partners to improve
    inefficient irrigation systems as they receive water from the
    District works.
        In closing, Mr. Chairman and Committee members, the
    District believes that passage of this legislation will assist
    in providing additional tools for federal agencies to use in
    helping state, tribal and local partners prepare this region
    for extended drought.
        The evidence is clear that drought conditions will persist
    given that during the last 15 years we have seen above normal
    snowmelt runoff in only five of those years and having
    experienced an unprecedented five consecutive years of below to
    well-below normal runoff in the Rio Grande Basin.
        We thank Senator Udall and Committee member Heinrich for
    their work in introducing this bill and this Committee for this
    hearing on drought preparedness so critical to the future of
    New Mexico.
        I stand ready for any questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Hamman follows:]

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        Senator Hoeven. Finally we will hear from Christopher Wynn,
    the Vice President of Northeast Operations for the Brookfield
    Renewable Group which has a significant portfolio in the State
    of Maine.

       STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER WYNN, VICE PRESIDENT, NORTHEAST
                    OPERATIONS, BROOKFIELD RENEWABLE

        Mr. Wynn. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member King, members of the
    Subcommittee, good afternoon and thank you for the opportunity
    to appear today. My name is Todd Wynn, and I'm the Vice
    President of Northeast Operations at Brookfield Renewable. In
    that role, I oversee operations of all Brookfield's
    hydroelectric and wind facilities in Maine, New Hampshire and
    Massachusetts.
        Brookfield Renewable is one of the largest, independent
    hydropower producers in the United States. Our portfolio is
    comprised of 88 percent hydroelectric generation. We operate
    these resources with an embodying global commitment to safety,
    environmental responsibility and community engagement.
        In the United States, we own and operate nearly 140
    hydropower facilities and seven wind farms across 13 states.
    These facilities generate approximately 14 terawatt hours of
    clean, renewable and reliable energy, enough to supply one
    million homes and making us intimately familiar of the
    challenges of relicensing small and large hydropower facilities
    alike.
        Today, I'm here to support two bills proposed by Senator
    King that we believe will help support hydro owners and
    operators--the Small Dam Exemption Act and the Small Dam
    Information Act.
        Hydropower is a proven, long-life and reliable, renewable
    resource providing critical, baseload power and delivering a
    variety of important benefits to the electrical grid. As
    America's first indigenous, renewable energy source, it
    contributes valuable fuel diversity and security to our
    domestic energy portfolio. It is also highly flexible, able to
    quickly ramp up and down to support fluctuating grid demands.
    This flexibility is critical for liability and helps to
    accommodate the increasing penetration of intermittent
    generation such as wind and solar.
        While hydropower facilities appear to operate nearly self-
    sufficiently, they're actually a capital-intensive resource
    requiring continuous monitoring and re-investment to ensure
    reliable, efficient and safe operation. This investment helps
    stimulate local economies and sustain nearly 517 Brookfield
    Renewable jobs nationally.
        In Senator King's home state, where we operate 39 small-
    scale facilities, we invested nearly $16 million last year. By
    creating an opportunity to streamline the FERC permitting
    process for small hydropower assets, Senator King's Small Dam
    Exemption Act is an important initial step toward better
    acknowledging the value and importance of these resources.
        Although the FERC relicensing process is defined as five to
    six years, a hydropower relicensing sometimes takes eight to
    ten years to complete. Over 500 projects nationwide will begin
    their relicensing process between 2017 and 2030, representing
    about half of all hydropower projects licensed by the
    Commission. The vast majority of these projects are very small
    with a median install capacity of two and a half megawatts.
        The cost to relicense a project is not directly tied to a
    facility's energy output. A one megawatt project is forced to
    file the same licensing process as a 1,000 megawatt project.
    The cost of a single, hydro licensing process can vary
    considerably and can run to millions of dollars in certain
    cases. The challenge is especially acute with smaller dams and
    for smaller hydro operators. Small projects earn less revenue,
    making it more difficult for small projects to absorb or
    recover the costs associated with licensing and any protection
    mitigation enhancement measures. This is leading some small
    hydro operators to surrender licenses and/or decommission
    smaller projects.
        Providing FERC with the discretion to exempt certain small
    hydro projects from the relicensing process while still
    providing prudent and necessary environmental oversight is an
    important step toward streamlining the licensing process and
    recognizing the values that these resources provide.
        We applaud Senator King's leadership on relicensing for
    small scale hydro and also wish to speak briefly on the Small
    Dam Information Act. While not directly impacting the majority
    of our portfolio we understand this Act seeks to study how
    requiring FERC licensing of small, non-powered dams balances
    with the challenges and burdens of the licensing requirements.
        As we noted previously in our testimony, FERC licensure can
    impose significant economic challenges. We believe to
    understand the various costs and options available to license
    non-powered dams can only be helpful to policymakers and
    regulators who might consider future legislation on this topic.
        Thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I
    welcome questions from the Committee.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Wynn follows:]

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        Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Mr. Wynn.
        I would also add that we received written testimony from
    FERC on Senator King's two bills, S. 1029 and S. 1030.
        [The information referred to follows:]

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        Senator Hoeven. At this point we will go to questions. I am
    going to start the questions. I do have to go preside on the
    Floor at 3:30, so I am going to try to get through. I might go
    a little bit over my time, so I will ask the indulgence of the
    Committee. Thank you.
        Senator Barrasso will be here to preside so that there will
    be plenty of time for all of you to ask any and all questions
    that you want to ask.
        Mr. Fisher, I am going to start with my questions for you.
    Public access to public lands is an important issue to all of
    us and certainly it is important to Secretary of Interior
    Zinke. We know that.
        You mentioned in your testimony the community's usage of
    the lake and other activities. Can you tell the Committee here
    today a little bit more about the public access the community
    currently enjoys at Patterson Lake and will continue to enjoy
    if this bill is enacted?
        Mr. Fisher. Currently there are three main public access
    areas around Patterson Lake. Two areas are on the north side
    which include picnic areas, two boat ramps and a public beach.
    On the south side of the lake there is a picnic area, a boat
    ramp and then also access to the water for fishing. Fishing on
    the lake is actually a year-round thing.
        The community also enjoys miles of natural and paved
    walking paths around the edges of Patterson Lake, and with
    those walking paths those are also used year-round.
        Senator Hoeven. Talk for a minute about the Dickinson Parks
    and Recreation Department and their continued commitment to
    public access and recreation.
        Mr. Fisher. Just from the meetings with the Dickinson Parks
    and Recreation Department, they have addressed, in their letter
    of support, their efforts to enhance the access for the public
    there while they also talk about what they have managed for the
    Bureau of Reclamation over the years and how they have enhanced
    the opportunities and support for the public accessibilities.
        Senator Hoeven. They have submitted that letter for the
    record, correct?
        Mr. Fisher. They have. Correct.
        Senator Hoeven. Which details their support.
        In your testimony you mentioned that the Patterson Lake
    Homeowners Association currently pays permit fees to the
    Dickinson Parks and Recreation to help maintain public lands
    around the lake. In addition to local property taxes, if this
    bill was to successfully pass and the homeowners are able to
    purchase their lots, they will no longer pay the permit fees to
    Dickinson Parks and Recreation. So you will be paying increased
    property tax fees as owners then of the property to support the
    county and the school, but you will not be paying the permit
    fees. I know you are not part of the Dickinson Parks and
    Recreation Department, but do you know what their plan is to
    cover the costs without revenue from the fees?
        Mr. Fisher. In the discussions I've had with the Park
    Director and the Board, they've planned to incorporate the
    operation and maintenance of Patterson Lake Recreation Area
    with their regular operating funds.
        Senator Hoeven. Okay, so they have that covered?
        Mr. Fisher. They've been planning this for years.
        Senator Hoeven. Okay, is there anything else that you want
    to elaborate on as far as the history or anything else
    regarding the homeowners and the lots that are on Patterson
    Lake in their development? Any other thoughts?
        Mr. Fisher. Yeah. The original cabins and structures, they
    were originally built in the 1950s and 1960s and they were all
    constructed being seasonal use structures. Over the years, as
    the homeowners have lived there and the homes have changed
    hands, you know, people have added on to the actual cabin lots
    and sites by planting trees, establishing lawns. They've also
    helped maintain the shorelines to help slow the causes of
    erosion.
        And over those years, as things have happened, we had a
    chance many years ago to actually choose to become full-time,
    permanent residents which, unanimously, everybody chose to be
    full-time, permanent residents. And with that choice, over the
    years, those structures have grown into being beautiful,
    beautiful homes which you've seen when you were out there.
        Senator Hoeven. I have been there. I have seen the homes,
    they are very nice homes. An incredible amount of improvements
    around the lake from riprap, trees, yards, like you are
    saying--really a beautiful place. And these are full-time,
    permanent residences, no question.
        Some questions for Secretary Cameron. Secretary Cameron,
    you mentioned in your testimony the Bureau of Reclamation
    acquired the lands needed to construct the Dickinson dam and
    reservoir and fulfill the authorized project purposes. My
    question, is the Bureau property under consideration in this
    bill necessary to fulfill the project purposes of the Dickinson
    unit?
        Mr. Cameron. Senator, we don't see any problem in terms of
    impairing the future operations of the Reclamation project or
    this legislation to move forward. We've got a very good, long-
    standing relationship with local residents, with Dickinson
    Parks and Recreation, and we don't see any impediment to our
    operations.
        Senator Hoeven. Secretary, I want to thank you for being
    here today. Thank you for your testimony on S. 440. I
    appreciate your feedback on the bill and will continue to work
    with you on your suggestions.
        I want to note that at the introduction of S. 440 we were
    contacted by the North Dakota Game and Fish Department
    regarding the land that it leases from the Bureau. We have
    taken that feedback into consideration and have worked with
    North Dakota Game and Fish to produce language that would also
    allow them to be conveyed the land that they currently lease.
    So we will work with the full Energy and Natural Resources
    Committee to include the updated language.
        I also am submitting a letter from the North Dakota Game
    and Fish Department in support of this legislation, S. 440. I
    also would like to make note of letters of support for S. 440
    from the Dickinson Parks and Recreation, the City of Dickinson,
    and the Stark County Board of Commissioners and want to make
    them part of the record as well.
        [The information referred to follows:]

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        Senator Hoeven. Does the amended language I mentioned which
    would provide conveyance of land permitted to cabin owners and
    land managed by the Dickinson Parks and Recreation to extend to
    the North Dakota Game and Fish Department alleviate your
    concerns regarding, ``fractionated ownership with continued
    Reclamation oversight responsibilities and costs,'' that you
    referenced in your testimony regarding the North Dakota Game
    and Fish leased land?
        Mr. Cameron. Yes, Mr. Chairman, that would be very helpful
    and we appreciate your doing that.
        Senator Hoeven. Okay. I would also note that the concern
    raised in your testimony regarding liability is also addressed
    in the amended language, and I welcome any feedback that you
    may have on it once you and whoever at Interior needs to take a
    look at it does so.
        Again, you have been absolutely fantastic to work with in
    this process. We will continue to make sure that we address
    anything that you bring forward to us, but I do want to thank
    you very much.
        Mr. Cameron. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. We
    appreciate your response on this and your willingness to move
    ahead here to benefit the community and the homeowners.
        Senator Hoeven. Also, Mr. Fisher, thank you for being here
    and for your good work.
        I do have other questions from Chairman Flake, but I am
    going to turn those over to Senator Barrasso as well as the
    gavel at this point and turn to Senator King for his questions.
        Again, thanks to all of you.
        Senator King. Mr. Chairman, I understand that Senator
    Heinrich has a commitment in a short time, so I am going to
    yield my first round of questions to him.
        Senator Heinrich.
        Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Senator King. I will point out
    that the Acting Chairman has said how beautiful this lake is,
    but he said nothing about the fishing and I find that very much
    out of character, but we will solve that later.
        I want to turn back to S. 1012 and really start by thanking
    Senator Udall for the incredible work that he and his staff
    have done on this legislation over time. It has been an
    absolute pleasure to work with him on this legislation.
        As my first question, I was going to ask Mr. Hamman to walk
    through some of the things the District has done to deal with
    the drought conditions that we have seen for a number of years
    now. I think you have effectively done that, but I want to take
    this as an opportunity to commend you and commend your board
    members.
        We have seen more proactive measures taken in the last
    couple of years than in many, many years before. It really is,
    I think, a testament to your board members and your leadership
    just how active you have been on this front and how much
    progress is being made. So I want to say thank you.
        Mr. Hamman, how might we facilitate water leasing as we are
    looking at setting up a pilot project? How do we make sure we
    do that in a way that is beneficial for water rights holders as
    well as for the natural environment?
        Mr. Hamman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Senator Heinrich.
        The process that I think will work, at least in the initial
    stages of getting this program up and running, would be to work
    closely with the state engineer's office and Reclamation and
    the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation to do an inventory to
    fully determine the extent of the pre-1907 water rights that
    are in the basin.
        And then have an outreach effort for the owners of that, of
    those rights, to encourage the opportunity for them to, in lieu
    of outright transfer and sale and severance of those rights
    from the land, to actually have another alternative for them to
    achieve some kind of an income stream to work directly with the
    District through a water bank that we would likely manage and
    would relish the opportunity to manage, quite frankly, in
    addition to the water bank we currently manage, to afford those
    folks that opportunity.
        And then we would work with various NGOs and Reclamation
    and others to determine how an instream flow process might work
    and how you convert an irrigation right that doesn't have
    storage rights to a storage right that can be used in a way
    that can protect the species of interest during the summer
    months when we have the most trouble----
        Senator Heinrich. Right.
        Mr. Hamman. ----keeping the river from drying out below
    Isleta Diversion Dam. So that would be the focus that we'd work
    on there.
        Senator Heinrich. Excellent.
        Before my time is out, I want to switch over to Mr. Cameron
    real quickly. Can you talk a little bit about how the Bureau
    has used water leasing in other basins to help ameliorate some
    of the drought stresses that some of our basins are under?
        Mr. Cameron. Senator Heinrich, I'm probably best advised to
    give you a more detailed response for the record.
        Senator Heinrich. Okay.
        Mr. Cameron. I will say more generally, however, that we
    strongly support the notion of water leasing--any way that one
    could use markets to move water around consistent with state
    water law is advantageous to everyone involved.
        So we strongly support the notion, and I can give you,
    perhaps, a detailed example for the record.
        Senator Heinrich. That would be just fine.
        Real quick, my last question for you, Mr. Cameron. Would
    greater flexibility in authorization language for dam and
    reservoir management help the Bureau better respond to
    droughts?
        Mr. Cameron. Yes, I think it would, Senator. And we welcome
    that, that would be helpful. Frankly, a drought situation needs
    as much flexibility as you can get your hands on.
        Senator Heinrich. Yes, I hear you.
        Thank you very much. Thanks to all of you for your
    testimony and for being here today.
        Senator Barrasso [presiding]. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
        Senator Daines.
        Senator Daines. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I want to start off by welcoming back Mayor Jeff Sell. As
    the Mayor of Harlowton, right there in Wheatland County, you
    know first-hand the challenges of lacking access to clean
    water. Unfortunately, during your last visit here to speak on
    behalf of your community, you were caught up in all that is
    wrong with Washington, DC. You flew all the way out here to
    share your story and be the voice for rural Montana and for
    rural America, and you were not allowed to speak.
        I want to thank you for returning here to share your
    thoughts. You had to bear additional expense and share your
    insights on this critical issue that affects thousands of
    Montanans.
        Water is a basic need of life. There are rural communities
    in Montana that lack access to the basics of clean and reliable
    drinking water. In fact, if you look at this--I have a picture
    here I am going to show in a minute--you are going to see what
    the quality of water is like in one of the affected communities
    in Montana. I will have Steven put that up.
        [The information referred to follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        This is a picture from Roundup, and you can see when you
    open up a hydrant what we got out of there in Roundup, Montana.
    In fact, I have water samples here that were taken from kitchen
    sinks in Circle, Montana, just East of Harlowton and a little
    bit, well, pretty much due East. Here is one from the Hans
    Family, taken out of their faucet. Here is one from the Good
    Family. Here is one from the Arneson Family. I have more, but I
    told my staff member, just give me three. I could show you
    many, many more samples just like it. These samples were taken
    from the kitchen sinks in Circle, Montana. We are not talking
    about a Third World country, we are talking about the United
    States of America. We are talking about Montana.
        In light of that, I have introduced Senate bill 685, the
    Clean Water for Rural Communities Act, with my colleague from
    Montana, Senator Tester. This bill would authorize two Bureau
    of Reclamation rural water projects critical to Montana, the
    Musselshell-Judith Rural Water System and the Dry-Redwater
    Regional Water Authority System. Authorizing these two projects
    would be an important step in providing clean and safe drinking
    water to nearly 36,000 Montanans and North Dakotans.
        Mayor Sell, Harlowton has serious issues with the wells
    used to provide your town with water. Unfortunately, Harlowton
    is just one example of numerous communities in Central and
    Eastern Montana that are facing severe drinking water
    challenges. The Musselshell-Judith Rural Water System would
    provide a clean and reliable water supply to your area, and I
    am impressed by the fact it has a demonstrated benefit-to-cost
    ratio of 1.28 to 1.
        So my question, Mayor Sell, is what benefits can we expect
    to see if we were to approve this project?
        Mr. Sell. Mr. Chairman, Senator Daines, we realize that
    authorization of this project does not get us any funding from
    the Federal Government at this time. But to use Mr. Cameron's
    words, it would allow us to get in the queue at the Bureau of
    Reclamation for future funding, if that did become available.
        Reclamation entered into numerous agreements with the CMRWA
    over the last 12 years to put this water system together.
    Reclamation has committed time and money, roughly $700,000 to
    this project already.
        Basically, with the short construction season that we have
    in the State of Montana, if this project were authorized we
    would be able to access state and local funding to get this
    project started and then if our current administration does
    provide infrastructure funding, like has been talked about
    numerous times over the last few months, we would have a
    project that would be completely shovel ready and we could get
    this project built in a very short amount of time.
        Senator Daines. I think that is something that folks lose
    sight of when you are from a northern state. We sometimes say
    we have nine months of winter and three months of bad sledding.
        Mr. Sell. Correct.
        Senator Daines. So, to restate, what could be accomplished
    with authorization, even if the federal dollars were not
    appropriated?
        Mr. Sell. We would be able to get, probably, design. We
    would be able to get land access rights and the design of the
    first phase of the project completed and possibly even get
    water to the first two communities in the first phase of the
    project which are Judith Gap and Harlowton.
        Senator Daines. Alright. Thank you.
        I have some more questions, Chairman, but I am out of time.
    Thanks.
        Senator Barrasso. Senator King.
        Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Cameron, S. 677 looks like a very sensible bill in
    terms of it providing a coordination of a one-stop shop. Is
    this in any way duplicative of processes that you already have,
    or do you think this would be useful authority?
        Mr. Cameron. Senator King, I do think it would be helpful.
    One of the challenges that we have as a Federal Government, and
    frankly state governments as well, in environmental reviews is
    that different agencies run their own processes along their own
    timelines, very often difficult to coordinate. They, way too
    often as I suspect you learned in your experience with
    hydropower in New England, are done sequentially as opposed to
    simultaneously.
        So we think this legislation would help control the expense
    and the duration of environmental reviews. And that, I think,
    would benefit the environment and would also certainly benefit
    the project proponents.
        Senator King. I completely agree and we incorporated
    changes in our own law in Maine when I was there to do just
    this. One of the problems with the sequential is you can need
    27 permits and if you get them all except 26, you are out of
    luck and you have made an enormous investment.
        I think anything we can do in the way of one-stop shopping,
    coordination in one lead agency, would be beneficial. I
    complement the Chairman on this bill. I think it is something
    we are going to have to look carefully at and be sure the
    language works, but the concept, I think, makes a lot of sense.
        Mr. Cameron. If I could elaborate, Senator. Sometimes
    agency number 17 wants a change that's inconsistent with agency
    number 5 and you find yourself in an endless do loop which
    makes matters even worse.
        Senator King. And that is when we get into these 10-, 12-
    and 20-year permitting processes which really do not serve any
    purpose, in my view.
        Mr. Gabriel, do you have any objection to S. 930? You
    talked about the changes you have made in terms of transparency
    and clarity of your work. Do you welcome this bill or do you
    view it as unnecessary?
        Mr. Gabriel. Well, we believe that this bill is in line
    with what we are looking at in terms of transparency. The only
    concern that I would express is we want to make sure that
    whatever is in the bill is actually answering the questions
    that the customers have because we can be chasing lots of
    information and then still not have folks satisfied.
        So we've been working carefully with Senator Flake's staff
    and we'll continue to do so. I'm all for transparency.
    Everything we've been doing in the last four, four and a half
    years, is moving down that path. So we have no issues with the
    bill itself. I just want to make sure that the details are well
    spelled out so we're answering the right questions.
        Senator King. Thank you.
        Mr. Wynn, you mentioned you have both wind and hydro. One
    of my concepts for many years is the use of hydro as the
    battery for wind in terms of intermittency. Are your projects
    adjacent in a way that you could do that or is that a
    conceivable concept at some time in the future?
        Mr. Wynn. I believe it is, Senator. You could combine the
    hydro and the wind so when the wind isn't blowing you could,
    kind of, offset or complement with hydro generation. I think
    that's----
        Senator King. As I recall, most of your hydro is run-of-
    the-river though, isn't it, or do you have storage?
        Mr. Wynn. We do have several storage facilities, especially
    in the headwaters of the Penobscot, Kennebec and Androscoggin
    Rivers.
        Senator King. So that would definitely be a place where you
    could pair that with a wind project?
        Mr. Wynn. Absolutely.
        Senator King. Where you have the storage.
        Talk to me about the costs of relicensing a small project.
    I mean, it was striking what you said: that the relicensing of
    a one megawatt dam is the same as for a 1,000-megawatt dam.
    That really strikes me as very, very difficult. Tell me about
    that situation.
        Mr. Wynn. The cost for a small facility for relicensing can
    be a very big burden. Small facilities earn less revenues,
    generate less cash and therefore, the owner or licensee of a
    small facility would have a difficult decision to make if
    you're burdened or facing significant relicensing costs. The
    amount of time to recover that would just be a long period of
    time. And then you're making the tough decision if you should
    surrender or decommission a facility.
        Senator King. And isn't it true that we are in danger of
    losing significant hydropower by people that are just saying,
    ``I can't afford the capital investment involved in a
    relicensing,'' and we lose the power?
        Mr. Wynn. I think that's right. I think that some of the
    small facilities face that burden.
        Senator King. The second bill that I have in is essentially
    a study of the relicensing of storage dams, of non-powered
    development. Do you see that as useful, for generating useful
    information?
        Mr. Wynn. I do. I think--we own and operate several storage
    dams in the State of Maine. I think they provide great benefit,
    and just having a better understanding of them would be a good
    thing to know.
        Senator King. But again, if a storage dam doesn't produce
    any revenue, it makes the challenge of justifying the
    relicensing even greater.
        Mr. Wynn. Yes, absolutely. That's correct.
        Senator King. Well, I have to say one of the reasons I
    submitted this bill is I think this is a problem generally. We
    legislate around here for everybody. For example, financial
    regulation that is designed for big banks ends up hitting
    credit unions and small community banks with an equal
    regulatory burden that is way disproportionate to what those
    institutions are doing. So this is exactly the same problem. We
    are aiming it at this small hydro relicensing.
        I appreciate your testimony, and I appreciate your
    management of those great resources in Maine. As you said, I
    think it is one of the largest privately-owned hydro systems in
    the country, and very much a part of our history. I want to
    thank you for coming and testifying before us today.
        Mr. Wynn. Thank you, Senator.
        Senator King. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator King.
        Senator Daines, you had a last question?
        Senator Daines. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I have one question that I wanted to ask, it is for Mr.
    Cameron. Congress passed the Rural Water Supply Act to
    establish and carry out a rural water supply program in Western
    states. After 12 years and over $3 million spent by the Federal
    Government, the State of Montana and local communities, the
    Musselshell-Judith Rural Water System was found to be feasible
    and to have met the broad criteria of the program. Yet the
    Bureau of Reclamation will still not recommend this project for
    authorization. Mr. Cameron, what good does a feasibility
    approval do if the project will not be authorized?
        Mr. Cameron. Senator, I completely am sympathetic with the
    basis of your question there.
        Our--we certainly recognize the fact that there's a
    positive benefit cost ratio with this project. And were there,
    if an amount of funds were available, I think, yeah, we'd align
    it to fund it.
        Our concern really is reflecting the fact that Congress has
    authorized a number of projects already, well in excess of $1
    billion. Roughly, $50 million is being appropriated every year
    and we're concerned, frankly, about raising expectations which
    we might not be able to fulfill through the appropriations
    process.
        But I certainly agree that this is a good project. I
    certainly agree that no one should be asked to drink brown
    water, you know, such as you've exhibited here in the
    photographs. And we're very sympathetic with the plight that
    these communities in Montana are facing. Secretary Zinke has
    underscored that for us on more than one occasion, I might add.
        Senator Daines. Yes. My concern is that we are stewards of
    taxpayer dollars to make sure the resources that are devoted to
    the development of these projects, they are not just wasted.
    You go through all these feasibility studies and so forth and
    then no action is taken.
        Mr. Cameron. I would agree with you. I think to some extent
    this is consistent with some of the subject matter of S. 677 in
    that there's an excessively prolonged evaluation process. And I
    think, perhaps, having a better understanding up front what the
    project proponents, about the sort of obstacles that they're
    facing, and trying to expedite the reviews would be beneficial
    for everyone involved.
        What's happened with these two projects in Montana,
    unfortunately, is history. You know, at this point we can't
    wind the clock back 10 or 15 years and start over.
        Senator Daines. Well, I am glad you are there now and I am
    sure as we go forward here, we are looking forward to making
    progress.
        Thank you, Mr. Cameron.
        Mr. Cameron. Yes, sir.
        Senator Barrasso. Senator Manchin.
        Senator Manchin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Wynn, this will be for you. You met with the West
    Virginia Alloy Manufacturing Company on June 9th.
        Mr. Wynn. The company did, Senator. I'm responsible for
    operations in New England, but other members of the company
    did.
        Senator Manchin. Oh, okay.
        I was kind of happy that we were tied together with New
    England and Maine.
        Contrary to what some people believe, West Virginia is not
    just all about coal. A lot of it is about coal, but we have an
    ``all-in'' energy policy.
        The meeting was about the release on the flow levels at the
    Hawk's Nest hydropower facility in New River in Fayette County.
    The American Whitewater Association is proposing increased
    releases and flow from the facility which would increase
    rafting access for about one and a half miles. If that proposal
    is successful it would impact the level of electricity produced
    by the dam. Therefore, the West Virginia Alloy Manufacturing
    Company could face increased costs of at least a half a million
    dollars a year because they would need to purchase power from
    American Electric Power (AEP) at a much, much higher cost.
        Now the following questions will give you an opportunity to
    address these concerns we have and I am sure you are familiar
    with them on this project. Brookfield Renewable owns and
    operates at Hawk's Nest and Glen Ferris facilities.
        Mr. Wynn. That's right.
        Senator Manchin. Correct. And that is on New River.
        It is my understanding that they are currently working
    through FERC relicensing, which we know the challenges we have
    there, for several licenses for those two projects which
    provide clean, affordable power to the community. I think both
    projects are how many megawatts? One? Less than ten?
        Mr. Wynn. I don't know, sir, off the top of my head.
        Senator Manchin. Oh, okay. They are very small.
        I recently met with West Virginia Alloy Manufacturing
    Company which employs 240 people and has an 80-year history
    producing high-quality silicon for the chemical, metal and
    solar industry which is very little of that produced in this
    country right now.
        The company's production process is very energy intensive.
    Potential loss of a portion of that supply is concerning to
    these folks. The reason it is concerning is they have, with the
    240 employees, about $1.1 million in taxes. They are talking
    about a release that would cost them half a million dollars.
        We have a lot of rivers to raft on, and I am all for the
    rafting industry and all for the recreational industry, but
    there comes the time when you put a pencil to it and a chance
    of losing 240 jobs and taxes of $1.1 million. Does it make
    sense? I mean, they are going through this process and there is
    a chance they might not be relicensed.
        Have you all done economic impacts? Are you showing the
    economic impacts?
        Mr. Wynn. I apologize, I'm not very familiar with that
    relicensing. I know that, generically speaking, when we go
    through a relicensing process we work with various large groups
    of stakeholders. In this case, the facility you're speaking of,
    the whitewater rafters, other groups, recreation groups,
    environmental groups, et cetera.
        So, I apologize for I won't be able to speak to the details
    of that facility. But generally speaking, we work very hard to
    work with all groups, economic impacts, recreation,
    environmental.
        Senator Manchin. No, but I am saying, I do not know what
    the highest priority is from FERC. We are asking for a
    relicensing here to continue to operate as it has operated for
    over 80 years.
        Mr. Wynn. Correct, sir.
        Senator Manchin. There has not been any rafting in that one
    and a half miles for 80 years. We have hundreds of miles of
    rafting available, but I have 240 jobs at stake for that one
    and a half miles, that is all I am asking.
        There has got to be some common sense somewhere, maybe Mr.
    Cameron, do you have any?
        I meant, not common sense, I meant----
        [Laughter.]
        Senator Barrasso. Let the record reflect the question has
    been clarified.
        Mr. Cameron. On more than one occasion, Senator, I've been
    accused of not having any common sense.
        Senator Manchin. Well, we found out it is not real common
    here in Washington, so do not be surprised.
        Mr. Cameron. Yes, sir. I was actually sitting here
    listening and I was saying to myself, the Senator has got a
    great point. This doesn't make a lot of sense.
        Senator Manchin. You know, I really agree. Senator King's
    bill, S. 1029, it is a great bill, a great piece of legislation
    and I do not know why--do you know where we are on that
    Senator, if you can bring me up to speed?
        Senator King. The good news is it is co-sponsored by the
    Chairman of the Subcommittee. That is always a good sign.
        Senator Manchin. That should make it fly.
        Senator King. I hope.
        Senator Manchin. Anyway, I think some of these
    certificates, recertification--and they take into consideration
    the size, the proportion of what we are asking for and the
    amount of cost--it is just wearing people out, it just wears
    them out.
        We have an ``all-in'' energy policy in West Virginia. We
    want all the hydro we can get. We want all the wind and solar.
    We have the coal. We have been blessed with coal and natural
    gas. We have a little bit of everything, and we want to use
    everything to the best of our ability, but sometimes our own
    government gets in our way and makes it very hard for us to do
    what we need to do.
        The cost of electricity in West Virginia has gone up
    because 90 percent of our power was coming from coal and the
    overreach of regulation from the Obama Administration drove the
    price through the sky and never cleaned up one thing. We have
    already taken on all the new regulations but the cost now has
    doubled in West Virginia, a 50 percent increase.
        This little project is so important for the economics for
    it to work there. If it does not, it will not work. So I am
    preaching to the choir, I think. Okay, thank you.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Manchin.
        Well, I am pleased to be here at this first Water and Power
    Subcommittee hearing of this Congress. I am glad all of the
    witnesses have made it back today. And we all agree good, clean
    water with strong, reliable infrastructure is essential for
    communities all across America.
        Since the beginning of this year, the Full Committee,
    alone, has held more than five hearings focused on
    infrastructure. We have heard from experts across the country
    in a variety of fields from electric utilities, our national
    labs and water conservation districts. The common theme in
    recommendation we received is that the current federal
    permitting process is broken and needs improvement.
        That is why we are here today to discuss a number of bills,
    one of which is S. 677, the Water Supply Permitting
    Coordination Act. It is also known as the ``one-stop shop.''
    This bill is going to streamline the current multi-agency
    permitting process which often draws out and delays the
    construction of new surface water storage by creating this one-
    stop shop permitting process at the Bureau of Reclamation.
        Mr. Cameron, I want to thank you for your testimony on this
    bill. I appreciate you taking the time to work with my staff to
    discuss and get a better, fuller understanding of the bill. The
    bill seeks to clarify what is currently a timely and confusing
    permitting process for many.
        I noted the comments and the suggestions in your written
    testimony that we can use to strengthen the bill. Would you be
    willing to continue to work to address some of those points in
    your written testimony?
        Mr. Cameron. Absolutely, Senator Barrasso. We'd be
    delighted to do that.
        Senator Barrasso. Great, I very much appreciate it. We
    would be happy for you to work with my staff helping iron out
    some of the details.
        Mr. Davis, I want to thank you for your support of this
    bill, S. 677. There is certainly a need for additional water
    infrastructure across the West. As the general manager, as you
    are, of the Yuma County Water Users' Association, you work
    closely with the Bureau of Reclamation and it is the agency in
    power to coordinate new projects under the bill. Will you
    please describe some of your experiences with the Bureau of
    Reclamation and why you think they are the appropriate lead
    agency for this type of effort?
        Mr. Davis. Well, the era of dam building was thought to be
    over a number of years ago, Senator Barrasso, but recent
    drought has proven in the West that new storage infrastructure
    is going to have to be built to meet the ever-increasing
    demands of water in the West. And the Bureau was the key
    entity, the key agency all those past years to developing the
    West. That's why the Reclamation Act was formed, passed in
    1902, reclaimed the West and then the first thing necessary was
    water supply and building dams.
        I think it's recognized, from California to Oklahoma, that
    to survive long-term droughts we're going to need more storage
    because of the population growth in the West. It's natural that
    the Bureau of Reclamation is the agency to go to for that
    because traditionally they're the experienced agency in being
    able to do this.
        The challenge for them is being able to regulate and manage
    and wrangle these other federal agencies that are, sort of,
    Johnny-come-lately to the process of building dams and they
    have other interests other than just building dams to impound
    water for public use.
        And so, the Bureau is the obvious agency to be in charge of
    this process, to set timelines and controls on the other
    agencies to get the permitting process.
        I think that if this is implemented it's not going to have
    any negative impact on the NEPA process and the other federal
    laws that are required to build this infrastructure. It's, like
    Mr. Cameron said, it's a time factor that it allows the Bureau
    to put these folks and these other agencies in shape in a
    timely manner to get their processes done.
        Senator Barrasso. In your answer you used the word
    timelines, time and timely. Could you just talk a little bit
    about why you think the timeframes set forth in this bill are
    important?
        Mr. Davis. I think the timeframes are important just
    because of the cost that the time, extended timelines, it
    finally--those entities that are trying to get these structures
    constructed either run out of money, run out of time, run out
    of interest, run out of, you know, it's finally--the stalling
    process can have an effect of completely stopping a project
    from ever getting built. And so, the timeline is important.
        The other important thing about this bill, it allows the
    states to be involved. These projects have been and often
    involve, not only federal land, but state land and private
    land, and the states are often the ones that are stuck with the
    later management of some of these areas and it allows the
    states to help speed up the time process maybe by pumping some
    money into the process and maybe also putting in some timely
    information as far as data and scientific studies. So it allows
    the states to be a partner there and be involved which is, I
    think, absolutely necessary to get one of these projects done
    in the future.
        Senator Barrasso. Yes. I would also like to ask a couple of
    questions on behalf of Senator Flake who, as you know, has been
    preoccupied with the tragic events that took place earlier
    today.
        To you, Mr. Davis, this is a question from Senator Flake
    about the Western Area Power Administration customers who are
    interested in providing input into the capital investment
    projects. But it doesn't sound like there is a similar input in
    the operations and maintenance budget. Would you please run
    through some of the customer concerns and frustrations with the
    lack of transparency on headquarters' O&M budget?
        Mr. Davis. Yes, you know, the customers have always had
    pretty good input, at least some veto power into the capital
    projects, and we review those annually on a 10-year basis.
        It seems that our cost increases and the cost increases to
    my WAPA transmission costs have been about six percent a year
    for the last five years. And it seems to be most of that is in
    the operations and maintenance side of the equation which we
    have very little input into.
        I like the idea of transparency, but I like even more the
    idea of customer involvement. And that's one thing that we're
    working out in the Desert Southwest region of Western. We have
    a very customer-oriented manager there and he's been very open.
    He's been supportive of Mr. Gabriel to be very open, to the
    customers involving themselves in the process, not only of
    helping select capital projects to be put into the 10-year
    queue, but also to looking at staffing needs and other type O&M
    costs that are ongoing.
        We want to be careful with this transparency legislation,
    that it is meaningful but it doesn't increase cost to the point
    that it's not economic to do so.
        So we want transparency, but we also want to be actually
    involved in, somehow, decision-making in the process. And this
    technical, Customer Technical Committee we've put together
    working with the Desert Southwest Office, I think, is going to
    get to the bottom of this. I think it's going to be a good
    example or a good showcase for other regions to follow to get
    more customer involvement to help control rates and yet do the
    necessary maintenance and operation that needs to be done.
    We're not trying to let our systems run down. We want them to
    be maintained, state-of-the-art, but we want the money to be
    spent efficiently.
        Senator Barrasso. Well I appreciate all of you here. I am
    going to submit a couple additional questions from Senator
    Flake for the record, and I am going to have one for you, Mr.
    Cameron, that I will also submit for the record. There are a
    couple reservoir projects in Wyoming that are well behind
    schedule due to lengthy federal approval processes. On May 2nd
    I sent a letter to the Acting Director of the Bureau of Land
    Management asking about the status. We have not received a
    response yet. I am hoping that you can help make sure we get
    that response in a more timely manner, and we will submit that
    in writing.
        Mr. Cameron. Yes, sir, I'll follow up when I get back to
    the Department as well.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much.
        Well, thank you all for being here today. This is a great
    start for the work of this Subcommittee that we are going to do
    during this Congress.
        For the information of other members, questions may be
    submitted for the record before the close of business on
    Thursday. The record will remain open for two weeks. I hope you
    will be able to get your questions submitted to us in a quick
    manner. We ask the witnesses to respond promptly when you do.
        I thank all of the Subcommittee members who are here as
    well as those of you who were able to appear to testify. We
    apologize for the inconvenience it caused you earlier, and
    thank you all very much for being with us today.
        The hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 3:58 p.m. the hearing was adjourned.]

                          APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

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