[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 115 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
115th Congress Printed for the use of the
2nd Session Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe
________________________________________________________________________
Panel Discussion: ''And We Were
Germans: The Life of Hans-Jurgen
Massaquoi and Ralph Giordano''
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
FEBRUARY 20, 2018
Briefing
Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe
_______________________________________________________________________
Washington: 2018
Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe
234 Ford House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
202-225-1901
[email protected]
http://www.csce.gov
@HelsinkiComm
Legislative Branch Commissioners
HOUSE SENATE
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey ROGER WICKER, Mississippi,
Co-Chairman Chairman
ALCEE L. HASTINGS, Florida BENJAMIN L. CARDIN. Maryland
ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas CORY GARDNER, Colorado
STEVE COHEN, Tennessee MARCO RUBIO, Florida
RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire
RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas TOM UDALL, New Mexico
GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
Executive Branch Commissioners
DEPARTMENT OF STATE
DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE
[II]
ABOUT THE ORGANIZATION FOR SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE
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ABOUT THE ORGANIZATION FOR SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE
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Panel Discussion: ``And We Were Germans: The Life of
Hans-Jurgen Massaquoi and Ralph Giordano''
_________________
February 20, 2018
Page
PARTICIPANTS
Dr. Mischa E. Thompson, Senior Policy Advisor, Commission for Security
and Cooperation in Europe .......................................... 1
John A. Kantara, Director, ``And We Were Germans: The Life of Hans-Jurgen
Massaquoi and Ralph Giordano'' ..................................... 2
Panel Discussion: ``And We Were Germans: The Life of
Hans-Jurgen Massaquoi and Ralph Giordano''
----------
February 20, 2018
Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe
Washington, DC
The briefing was held at 2:00 p.m. in Room 121, Canon House Office
Building, Washington, DC, Dr. Mischa E. Thompson, Senior Policy
Advisor, Commission for Security and Cooperation in Europe, presiding.
Panelists present: Dr. Mischa E. Thompson, Senior Policy Advisor,
Commission for Security and Cooperation in Europe; and John A. Kantara,
Director, ``And We Were Germans: The Life of Hans-Jurgen Massaquoi and
Ralph Giordano. ''
Dr. Thompson. Good morning. My name is Dr. Mischa Thompson. Welcome
to ``And We Were Germans,'' a briefing hosted by the U.S. Helsinki
Commission, also known as the Commission on Security and Cooperation in
Europe. This event is taking place in honor of Black History Month. For
those of you who may not know, the Helsinki Commission is an
independent U.S. Government agency focused on human rights, economics,
and security in the 57 North American and European countries that make
up the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, or OSCE.
The commission is chaired by Members of Congress, bicameral,
bipartisan, and includes the executive branch.
The OSCE has had a focus on diverse and vulnerable populations,
from Roma and Jewish populations to national minorities and migrants in
Europe and the United States, since its inception. Over the past
decade, our commissioners have also focused on the situation of people
of African descent in Europe, or black Europeans, from hearings in the
U.S. Congress to resolutions in the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly. You
can find a report in the blue folder that details many of these
initiatives.
Now, central to those efforts has simply been raising awareness
about Europe's long history and contributions of African-descent
populations, from the Moors in Spain to present-day migrants and
refugees. We are, therefore, very pleased to be screening today a film
that is both American and European history, on two luminaries: Hans
Massaquoi and Ralph Giordano. We are also thankful that Dean Jacqueline
Jones and DeWayne Wickham of Morgan State University in Maryland were
able to facilitate the participation of the film's director, Professor
John Kantara, in today's briefing. Professor Kantara, we're just really
pleased that you're able to be here today.
Mr. Kantara. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Dr. Thompson. You can find Professor Kantara's bio in the blue
folder and online. And he will also be here with us to discuss the film
and what is currently happening overseas immediately following the
film. And so, without further ado, we will present now ``And We Were
Germans.''
[The film ``And We Were Germans: The Life of Hans-Jurgen Massaquoi
and Ralph Giordano'' is shown.]
Dr. Thompson. So one of the things I meant to say in the beginning
is this is not an easy film to watch. If anyone has been to any other
commission briefing, I think we're known for actually playing films
that address very difficult subjects, but with the goal of really
bringing attention to events that are taking place, and this idea
toward moving toward solution. So, with that, I want to turn to
Professor Kantara and just begin by asking you: Why is that you even
decided to make this film?
Mr. Kantara. Well, basically, it was by coincidence. In 1997, I
went with a group of black German youth to Chicago. And somehow the
German cultural institution Goethe Institute got wind of it, that we
were coming to Chicago, to Northwestern University, and trying to
develop a black German African American cultural exchange program. And
what happened is they invited us to come to the Goethe Institute and
have a little reception. And Hans Massaquoi, a Chicagoan, came to that
reception. And we had an older man, a black German with us. And these
two older gentlemen then were talking to each other. And, I said, who's
this?
And so I basically came and eavesdropped a little bit--journalist,
you know. And I got to know that he was actually from Hamburg. And so I
got to know Hans Massaquoi a little bit. And he told me that he was
planning on his autobiography. And then I said, okay, if you write that
autobiography, I'll make a film about that. So I was the first one--
[laughs]--to ask him. And he said, okay, let's do it. And then I did.
That's why I did the film, because he came out with his autobiography,
``Destined to Witness'' in--first published in German, and a few years
later in English as well. And it was great. It's been a running success
in Germany. And we got to convince a couple of editors that we must
write that book with that access. And, with that book written, we must
make a film. And so I did the documentary on it.
Dr. Thompson. Wow. So now can you tell us a little bit about how
this film was actually received? This film was done in 1999, so there
were a few things going on then. [Laughter.]
Mr. Kantara. Right. I mean, having in mind that Germany was just
reuniting, in a way, we had some real hard problems, with extreme
right-wing activity, particularly in East Germany. And so we had
refugee homes burning and it was really not a nice sight. So we really
thought we needed to explain to our viewers that, my people and black
Germans have a long history in Germany. Quite a few Germans do not know
that up to 1918, the end of the First World War, Germany was a colonial
power. So, Tanzania was a German colony. Cameroon was a German colony.
Rwanda, Burundi, German colonies. Namibia, a German colony, and in the
Pacific as well.
We had actually a sizable community of black people living in
Germany. Not only Germans moving to Namibia, it went the other way
around as well. And, particularly in bigger cities like Hamburg, like
Berlin, at the start of the Second World War we had a sizable community
of black people living there. Not big. Not like in, my hosts at Morgan
State University--my hosts in Morgan State University showed me
Baltimore. Oh, no, not as big as in Baltimore. But, still, we were
there.
And that is not really well known. That was not really known in
Germany at all, because the colonies were given to France and to
England after the war. And basically, the Nazis did everything to kill
us off. And so there weren't that many remaining after the war.
Massaquoi immigrated to the U.S. just like a few others, you know, just
said: Get us out of here. And so, that history is not really taught in
schools and people didn't know. And so I wanted to change that a little
bit.
Dr. Thompson. Now you touched on a number of different things, in
what you said just now. The film touched on everything from history, to
personal experience, just even surviving.
Mr. Kantara. Yes.
Dr. Thompson. But what touched you most about that film? I mean,
you met luminaries during this film. There's just so much here. But
what touched you the most, would you say?
Mr. Kantara. Well, you see, we are students of the African American
struggle and the civil rights movement, because we took a few cues from
black people and their struggle in the United States and we said: What
can we learn from that? I mean, we all listen to Martin Luther King,
his famous speech at the Mall, you know, ``I have a dream.'' We have
that in school. But, you know, we actually took some cues and said: We
have similar problems. What can we learn from African Americans? And
so, we now have in February in Germany a Black History Month, of
course, because of you guys having created this.
I wanted to inform my compatriots, the Germans, about our history,
about the fact that we're here--that we're there, and we're here to
stay. We're not leaving. This is our country. We're not foreigners.
We're Germans. And that was important. And so trying to organize,
trying to find a way to bring people together--not only black people,
but, black and white people, and Jewish people, and the people who are
affected by discrimination and racism, even today, that is a very
important task.
And that's what I wanted to do, help people out--and myself,
because I have two kids. I have two beautiful children--and hopefully
they're watching--[laughter]--I have two beautiful children. And I want
them to live in a safe Germany, as Germans. And so we learned a bit
from the American experience. And I think we could actually bring it to
bear and change a few things. We're still struggling, but we're going
there.
Dr. Thompson. And I'll ask you just one more question before we
turn it over to the audience. You had mentioned that you were at a
preview of the ``Black Panther'' film.
Mr. Kantara. Yes.
Dr. Thompson. And so, just because you're a black filmmaker--
[laughter]--I'd be very interested to hear how that film was actually
received in Germany.
Mr. Kantara. You know, we have a few organizations in Berlin who
actually came together to arrange a screening of the ``Black Panther''
movie the day it came out in Germany. So they actually--10 different
organizations came together and hired a cinema complex. It was full.
And it was amazing to see how young, black, German kids--you know, 16-
year-olds--related to what was shown in the film. They were picking up
on lines and hollering in the--[laughter]--and it was really funny to
see. And I was sitting actually there in amazement, seeing how they
identified.
I mean, mind you, one of America's biggest exports is their
cultural export. It is Hollywood. We all see these Hollywood movies.
But as Germans, we try to relate, but we're not really represented. I
mean, you--I guess you know that, but the black guy always has to die
first. [Laughs.] And so to us, it was really amazing to see a positive
image of Africa being depicted, our beautiful people. I mean, it's a
comic. It's entertainment. But there was a stronger message behind it.
And obviously, at least where I'm coming from in Berlin, everybody
loved it. And I think it's a huge success. You know, and we relate. We
can relate to the people, the positive stories being told there. It was
great fun.
Dr. Thompson. So now, with that, I'll actually open it up to the
audience. We have time for a few questions. Is there anyone that would
like to ask a question?
Questioner. How available is the film to universities and----
Dr. Thompson. I'm sorry, I apologize. Can you please just say who
you are and what organization you're with?
Questioner. I'm Dr. Marilyn Sephocle from Howard University.
Mr. Kantara. Well, it's always been a problem, because it actually
belongs to ZDF Television. I have, as the author and the director, the
right to show it. The problem is, you know, to give it to
universities--I would love to do that, because it's just a resource you
could use in your classrooms. But I'm not so sure whether that is
possible without paying the----
Questioner. Of course, we'd----
Mr. Kantara. But you'd have to go to ZDF Television Zweites
Deutsches Fernsehen, and I can help you with that a little bit. But it
takes time. There's bureaucracy. [Laughter.]
Dr. Thompson. Are there other questions from the audience, or
online? Can you say your name and your organization?
Questioner. Rachel Mina from Congressman Tom O'Halleran's office.
You spoke earlier about how there were still many problems that
Afro-Germans were experiencing. And would you compare those to some of
the things that African Americans struggle with, that African Americans
have here in the States? Or are they a different set because the
culture is different? Or how would you compare them?
Mr. Kantara. Well, obviously, Germany is not the U.S. But we have a
few problems, I would say, which are the same. I'm sure you're familiar
with the problem of racial profiling. That's something we experience as
well--driving while black. That is something which is happening. I
mean, quite a few people would dispute this and say, no, police are
colorblind. Well, I like to--I'd like to differ, I think. There are
some problems with policing, although it gets better because--at least
in metropolitan areas like Berlin--we get more and more people of color
in the force.
So that is really important. The force should look like the
community it's serving. And that is not really the case as of yet. But
it's changing. I know that police in Berlin are trying actively to
recruit more from minorities. It is not always simple--it's not easy,
because for so long there was a perceived, maybe even only, antagonism.
And now what we're trying to do is, we have to overcome this perceived
antagonism. We have got to have more diversity in the police force, but
not only in the police force, in the armed services as well.
I think we're probably the whitest force--military force in Western
Europe. The Dutch are more diverse. The French, the British. German
armed forces, the Bundeswehr, is very white. And so we need to change
that, because of the social mobility it provides. I mean, it's not only
just, oh, we'd like to have more colorful armed forces, no, or police
force. It means social mobility. There are some euros put in that. And
we are taxpayers. We want to participate in that. So it needs
participation.
Dr. Thompson. Are there other questions? So we'll go here and then
we'll go here.
Questioner. Hi. I'm Sibel with the minority office of the Senate
Foreign Relations Committee.
Mr. Kantara. OK.
Questioner. I have a question about how Hans Massaquoi arrived in
the United States. Was he--what year did he arrive and was he granted
asylum as a refugee or did he immigrate? How was that process?
Mr. Kantara. Yes. Well, first of all, Hans Massaquoi did not go
straight from Germany in 1948 to the U.S. He first went to Liberia,
where his father came from. And he stayed a few years in Liberia, but
his father died. And so he migrated to the U.S. from Liberia because
his maternal uncle--so, from his white mother's side--was living in
Chicago. So he got a visa to immigrate to the United States to see his
family basically--his white family in Chicago. And as I understand it,
he was drafted into the Korean War. So that must have been in the
1950s. So don't lay me down on the correct year. I would have to refer
you to his book, ``Destined to Witness,'' because I think it's in
there.
But he was actually--he told me he became a paratrooper for the
U.S. Air Force. And he was able to study, through the GI law. So he
studied journalism after his service in the U.S. Army--or Air Force--
what is it? I'm not sure, Army or Air Force. And then, his first job
was at Jet magazine, something like this, yes? Somewhere in Chicago.
And eventually he became managing editor of Ebony magazine after years
and years and years and years. But he was thrown into chronically,
basically, the civil rights movement as a journalist. And, it's an
irony, you know? You just escape Nazi persecution in Germany, only to
come to America and see that all is not right in America as well.
And so he had fire in him to report about it. And so some of the
greatest men I ever met, Hans Massaquoi, and Ralph Giordano. They were
good friends. And they were really inspirational. They were really--
both passed, unfortunately. But, they were really inspirational. And
particularly this friendship between this Jew and this black man, you
know? They were--they were inseparable. They worked together, because
they know the enemy--that our enemy is the same--they make--they make
no distinction, basically. You know? So, whether it's antisemitism or
racism, it's the same thing.
Dr. Thompson. So we have time for one more question or comment from
the audience.
Mr. Kantara. Sure.
Questioner. Are you familiar with Kurt Vonnegut's short story,
``Displaced Person''?
Mr. Kantara. No, I'm not--I'm familiar with Kurt Vonnegut, but not
that story.
Questioner. But this is a story of an Afro-German boy who survives
World War II and is isolated. And American soldiers come, and it's a
black battalion. And PBS in 1985 did a beautiful film based on this.
The star of it was the same man who was in ``A Soldier's Story,'' ``A
Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste.'' And if you can dig that up, I
think that'll resonate with an Afro-German person, or any African
American, because it deals with the irony, the paradox.
Mr. Kantara. You know, I will certainly dig that up, because I
think it looks interesting. But, you have to know, we--in Germany, we
were occupied by American forces for over 40 years. And I think
millions of African Americans went through Germany in their service,
being soldiers, GIs, in Germany--in my country. And millions of them--
men, you know, when you are 21 or something you're not--you're not a
Catholic priest. So celibacy is not in there. And so you're going out
in the discotheques and so on, and you have relationships.
Thousands upon thousands of black Germans were fathered by African
American GIs. So we have, direct relations to the United States.
[Laughter.] Quite a few, you know? So when you imagine it was, I think,
the year 1955, the German Bundestag discussed the fate of black
children in foster homes or children's homes. And they were already--
just 10 years after the war--we already had some 10,000 black German
kids, abandoned by their white German mothers. So, quite a few of them
went to the United States, were actually adopted by African American
servicemen and women. So there is a Black German Cultural Society in
the United States.
Part of the reason why I'm here today is to raise awareness and
say, hey, we're here. We're not many, that's true, but we're there. And
we try to make a difference. And maybe we ought--you're doing Black
History Month--to say to you all thank you, because you helped us a
great deal with your struggle. Your struggle in the United States
informed our struggle back home. Yes, I think that's very important to
say. Thank you.
Dr. Thompson. Well, we would really like to thank you for being
here, and just taking the time with us today. Some of you may know that
last week Representative Hank Johnson's office held an event with actor
Danny Glover, focused on the International Decade for People of African
Descent, that two of our commissioners participated it--Senator Ben
Cardin and Congresswoman Gwen Moore. They, in addition to Congressman
Alcee Hastings, actually have legislation that they've put out related
to raising awareness about people of African descent in Europe, as well
as supporting issues around civil and human rights. And these are
issues that the commission continues to work on.
In the beginning I talked about the fact that the commission has
had a long history working on Roma, Jewish, and other populations in
the region. They've also really worked within the OSCE to focus on
people of African descent as well. And so if you look in the blue
folders, on the last page, it actually details some of that work for
people who are curious.
And then I think the last piece that's of interest, because we are
speaking about Germany, is that populations in Europe are changing,
just as they are in the United States. And so there's increasing
diversity across the board. Estimates at this point are that there are
about 12 to 15 million people of African descent in Europe. And there
is also legislation on the table in Europe asking for specific policies
around diversity and inclusion in Brussels and other places as well.
So this really is a transatlantic conversation, but it's a
transatlantic conversation about our future. Whether it's our military
and security futures, whether it's about our economies and what our
work forces are going to look like, or whether it's about human and
civil rights, it's a conversation that really impacts us all on both
sides of the Atlantic.
And so, with that, I would like to say: Thank you all for joining
us today. And Professor Kantara will be here for a little bit longer to
answer any additional questions.
Mr. Kantara. Thank you. [Applause.]
[Whereupon, at 3:08 p.m., the discussion ended.]
[all]
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