    [House Hearing, 115 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                         HEARING ON ADVANCING EFFECTIVE
                         CONSERVATION POLICY WORLDWIDE:
                     SUCCESSES, CHALLENGES, AND NEXT STEPS
                       AND MARKUP ON H.R. 4819, DELTA ACT

    =======================================================================

                               HEARING AND MARKUP

                                   BEFORE THE

                          COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                         ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                                  MAY 22, 2018

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 115-135

                                   __________

            Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://docs.house.gov,

                          or http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/

                                     ______

                      U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

     30-172PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2018

                          COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                     EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman
    CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey     ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
    ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida         BRAD SHERMAN, California
    DANA ROHRABACHER, California         GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
    STEVE CHABOT, Ohio                   ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
    JOE WILSON, South Carolina           GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
    MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas             THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
    TED POE, Texas                       KAREN BASS, California
    DARRELL E. ISSA, California          WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts
    TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania             DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island
    MO BROOKS, Alabama                   AMI BERA, California
    PAUL COOK, California                LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
    SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania            TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
    RON DeSANTIS, Florida                JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
    MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina         ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
    TED S. YOHO, Florida                 BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
    ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois             DINA TITUS, Nevada
    LEE M. ZELDIN, New York              NORMA J. TORRES, California
    DANIEL M. DONOVAN, Jr., New York     BRADLEY SCOTT SCHNEIDER, Illinois
    F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, Jr.,         THOMAS R. SUOZZI, New York
        Wisconsin                        ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York
    ANN WAGNER, Missouri                 TED LIEU, California
    BRIAN J. MAST, Florida
    FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida
    BRIAN K. FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
    THOMAS A. GARRETT, Jr., Virginia
    JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah

         Amy Porter, Chief of Staff      Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director

                   Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                               HEARING WITNESSES

    Ms. Gretchen S. Peters, executive director, Center on Illicit
      Networks and Transnational Organized Crime.....................     4
    Mr. Dave Stewart, executive vice president and general counsel,
      Vulcan.........................................................    14
    Elizabeth L. Bennett, Ph.D., vice president for species
      conservation, Wildlife Conservation Society....................    21

          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING RECORD

    Ms. Gretchen S. Peters: Prepared statement.......................     7
    Mr. Dave Stewart: Prepared statement.............................    16
    Elizabeth L. Bennett, Ph.D.: Prepared statement..................    23

                                   MARKUP ON

    H.R. 4819, To promote inclusive economic growth through
      conservation and biodiversity programs that facilitate
      transboundary cooperation, improve natural resource management,
      and build local capacity to protect and preserve threatened
      wildlife species in the greater Okavango River Basin of
      southern Africa................................................    50
      Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H.R. 4819 followed
        by the Honorable Edward R. Royce, a Representative in
        Congress from the State of California, and chairman,
        Committee on Foreign Affairs.................................    58

                                    APPENDIX

    Hearing/markup notice............................................    70
    Hearing and markup minutes.......................................    71
    Markup summary...................................................    75

                         HEARING ON ADVANCING EFFECTIVE

                         CONSERVATION POLICY WORLDWIDE:

                     SUCCESSES, CHALLENGES, AND NEXT STEPS

                       AND MARKUP ON H.R. 4819, DELTA ACT

                                  ----------

                             TUESDAY, MAY 22, 2018

                           House of Representatives,

                         Committee on Foreign Affairs,

                                Washington, DC.

        The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 o'clock a.m.,
    in room 2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Edward Royce
    (chairman of the committee) presiding.
        Mr. Royce. This hearing will come to order. One of the
    great things about America is that we strive to be better. We
    work hard and we innovate to create better opportunities. We
    recognize the responsibility to leave future generations better
    off. It is this mindset that birthed the modern conservation
    movement, a movement that Teddy Roosevelt aptly deemed
    democratic in spirit, purpose, and method.
        Indeed, even before the Founding Fathers, Americans had
    long believed that this country's abundant resources should not
    be available just to the well off, but to everyone. Of course,
    as Roosevelt and other leaders in the late 19th century
    realized, America's resources were not limitless. Smart
    development and conservation would be necessary to protect our
    natural resources. Yellowstone, the world's first national
    park, soon followed.
        Today we know that these aren't just U.S. issues, they are
    global issues. By helping others conserve their natural
    heritage we ensure a brighter future for our own children. So
    many of those children are captivated by elephants and rhinos
    and cheetahs and many other majestic species, but it also is
    helping to improve the lives of millions, the lives of children
    in Africa who call places like the Okavango River basin their
    home.
        As a member of this committee, I have long worked to use
    this platform to make a difference in this fight. I remember
    when we were drafting the Congo Basin Forest Partnership
    legislation back in 2002. That followed a trip then-Secretary
    Colin Powell had made to that awe-inspiring landscape. We
    launched the International Conservation Caucus in the House as
    a means to build support for the effort. Back then the interest
    was limited. Only a handful of my colleagues appreciated the
    link between good natural resource management, sound economic
    growth, and national security. Today the ICC is one of the
    largest bipartisan caucuses on Capitol Hill. The ICC was
    critical to enacting the End Wildlife Trafficking Act in 2016
    to help combat unprecedented levels of wildlife poaching and
    trafficking. Indeed, estimated at $10 billion a year, wildlife
    trafficking is one of the largest black markets in the world,
    benefiting terrorist groups like the Lord's Resistance Army and
    Al-Shabaab. To help bolster our national security, the End
    Wildlife Trafficking Act rightfully put trafficking of
    threatened species on par with weapons and drug trafficking as
    threats, and it has helped to empower law enforcement and park
    rangers on the front lines.
        Last fall, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service successfully
    completed Operation Jungle Book. Now that was in Southern
    California. It was the biggest wildlife trafficking bust in the
    state of California's history. As the U.S. has pushed forward
    others have followed. Beijing is to be commended. China is to
    be thanked for taking steps to follow through on its domestic
    ivory market ban announced in 2017. Few predicted such
    progress. Similar bans are pending in Hong Kong and in
    Singapore, and the U.K. recently announced its strictest ivory
    ban to date.
        But many challenges remain. Later, we will be marking up
    legislation that will help Southern Africa's critical Okavango
    River basin. This magnificent but fragile inland delta supports
    more than 1 million people and it has the largest remaining
    population of wild elephants in the world. Alarmingly, unwise
    development and wildlife poaching are threatening to destroy
    the communities that rely on responsible management of this
    watershed. Like we did with the Congo Basin Forest Partnership,
    our goal is to strengthen coordination among the key players in
    the region.
        Wildlife and water don't know borders. For conservation to
    be impactful we need governments, we need the NGOs, and we need
    the private sector all working together. Our world's well-being
    depends on this and it depends on many more such efforts. So
    with that I will turn to Mr. Eliot Engel, the ranking member of
    this committee.
        Mr. Engel. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for calling this
    important hearing. And let me say that here in Congress we
    didn't hear a lot about wildlife trafficking and the way it
    intersects with our national security concerns before you, Mr.
    Chairman, put this issue on our radar screen. You have
    demonstrated extraordinary leadership on conservation and
    wildlife issues for many, many years. And let me just say the
    impact of your efforts will be felt well into the future both
    here in Congress and around the world.
        To our witnesses, welcome to the Foreign Affairs Committee.
    In particular, I would like to thank Dr. Bennett from the
    Wildlife Conservation Society, in my backyard, for being here
    today. WCS is based at the Bronx Zoo right next to the
    congressional district I represent. It used to be in my
    congressional district, but reapportionment took it out but not
    because I wanted it to be taken out. But I have really enjoyed
    working with many of your colleagues over the years. It is just
    extraordinary work that you do and your organization does. And
    particularly, I want to single out John Calvelli who used to be
    my staff director here for many years in Washington.
        We focused a great deal on the challenge of wildlife
    trafficking in recent years, but poaching is still hovering at
    crisis levels. The number of Asian elephants has declined by
    roughly a third over the last 10 years. Rhino populations have
    been decimated with only about 30,000 left in the wild. The
    most trafficked mammal in the world, the pangolin, is seriously
    endangered, and the list goes on and on. And this is just
    wrong. I don't want the next generation to grow up only knowing
    about elephants from the history books. We cannot allow these
    wonderful animals to disappear forever.
        But one of the main reasons we talk about this issue here
    in the Foreign Affairs Committee is that we have a national
    security interest in putting a stop to wildlife trafficking.
    Just like trafficking in drugs, weapons, and people, wildlife
    trafficking feeds corruption, undermines the rules of law,
    threatens economic prosperity, and drives instability. Thanks
    to Chairman Royce, the End Wildlife Trafficking Act became law
    in 2016, and today the administration is coming up with a
    strategy to ramp up cooperation with the 26 countries that are
    major sources, transit points, or consumers of wildlife
    trafficking, what we call focus countries.
        We also need to pay more attention to the three countries
    designated as countries of concern in which government
    officials are complicit in the illegal wildlife trade. There
    are a range of things we can do to tackle the problem of
    wildlife trafficking. We can partner with other governments to
    train park rangers and equip them with cutting edge
    technologies to counter poachers, we can help identify and take
    down the international criminal networks responsible for so
    much of the illicit wildlife trade, and we can support efforts
    to reduce the demand for wildlife products. I look forward to
    hearing from our witnesses on their important work in these and
    other areas.
        One final point, when it comes to conservation the elephant
    in the room, so to speak, is climate change. All our efforts to
    protect habitats and species will mean nothing if we don't
    protect the environment upon which all these animals and all of
    us depend. Literally, every country in the world except the
    United States is now party to the Paris Climate Accord aimed at
    curbing climate change. We cannot speak credibly on the issue
    of wildlife trafficking if we continue to isolate ourselves
    from the rest of the world when it comes to climate change.
        So again I thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank you for your
    work through the years on this important issue, and I yield
    back.
        Mr. Royce. Thank you, Mr. Engel.
        This morning I am pleased to welcome our panel of
    distinguished guests to the committee. We have Ms. Gretchen
    Peters. She is the director of the Center on Illicit Networks
    and Transnational Organized Crime. We have Mr. David Stewart,
    executive vice president and general counsel for Vulcan. Vulcan
    is a philanthropic foundation that develops new technology to
    combat poaching and sustainably manage national parks. And we
    have Dr. Elizabeth Bennett, vice president for Species
    Conservation at the Wildlife Conservation Society. And we
    appreciate them making the trek to be with us here today, and,
    without objection, the witnesses' full prepared statement will
    be made part of the record. The members are going to have 5
    calendar days to submit any statements or questions or any
    extraneous materials for the record.
        So if you would, Ms. Peters, we will start with you if you
    want to summarize your remarks for 5 minutes. And after the
    three of you are done we will go to questions.

    STATEMENT OF MS. GRETCHEN S. PETERS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CENTER
         ON ILLICIT NETWORKS AND TRANSNATIONAL ORGANIZED CRIME

        Ms. Peters. Thank you, Chairman Royce, Ranking Member
    Engel, and distinguished committee members for inviting me here
    today. It is a great honor to have an opportunity to comment on
    U.S. policy toward the global illegal wildlife trade. I run
    CINTOC, a strategic intelligence organization that supports
    governments and foundations to find and disrupt hidden criminal
    networks. Not just wildlife networks, but all types of crimes.
        If you remember just one thing that I say today, please
    remember this. There are just a handful of powerful crime
    syndicates that traffic the majority of illegal wildlife
    products moving from Africa to Asia and we know who they are.
    These networks can and should be the target of our national
    security and law enforcement apparatus not just because they
    are wiping out iconic species like the elephant, the rhino, and
    the pangolin, but for all the dangerous activities that they
    engage in from smuggling people, drugs, weapons, selling
    uranium to Iran, deforestation, and illegal mining. This is an
    organized crime threat and a national security threat and we
    must begin to treat it as such.
        On the positive side, we don't need any new laws to target
    these networks, as Chairman Royce went through some of the
    recent legislation that has been passed that is terrific.
    Existing legislation on transnational organized crime is well
    equipped to take them down and I applaud Congress and both the
    Obama and Trump administration for sharpening our laws on
    wildlife crime in particular.
        I have three points to make today. One, focus on the
    networks. What we do need is a properly resourced,
    multinational, multiagency task force focused on these key
    networks operating between Africa and Asia. To a large extent,
    the U.S. Government continues to treat wildlife crime as a
    conservation problem, managing and resourcing programs to
    reduce wildlife crime separately from other anti-crime
    activities. This stovepiping stifles interagency collaboration,
    it causes inefficiencies that ultimately hinder the
    effectiveness of law enforcement efforts, and it also causes
    missed opportunities to target the transnational organized
    crime networks for the myriad crimes they commit.
        We have witnessed this convergence around the globe. In
    parts of Africa, wildlife crime funds terrorists, insurgents,
    violent bandits, and rogue states like North Korea. From Mexico
    narcos smuggling fish bladders to Iranian back networks moving
    uranium and ivory, crime networks that traditionally smuggled
    only drugs, guns, and people have diversified into smuggling
    wildlife and timber because it represents high profit, low risk
    alternative.
        Now I am not saying that wildlife crime converges with
    other serious crime at every step of the illegal wildlife
    supply chain and I am not suggesting that we need to send SEAL
    Team 6 into the Okavango Delta to protect animals. That would
    be ridiculous. What I am saying is that we need our security
    apparatus focused on the powerful transnational crime
    syndicates that are moving illicit goods transnationally. These
    are also the crime syndicates that are financing poaching.
        We have had some real law enforcement success stories here
    in the United States including Operation Crash and Operation
    Jungle Book. I also supported a DEA operation to extract four
    smugglers from Kenya on narcotics charges last year. Two of
    those smugglers were also part of the largest ivory trafficking
    ring on the Swahili coast. However, what I have observed also
    is that governments in Asia, Latin America, and Africa have
    neither the political will nor the investigative,
    prosecutorial, nor legislative capacity to take on the most
    powerful crime networks that are moving wildlife and other
    illicit goods.
        The U.S. can and should take action against major crime
    syndicates, using U.S. extraterritorial legislation while also
    expanding technical and financial assistance to range and
    transit states to strengthen their own criminal justice
    responses to wildlife crime. I urge the U.S. Congress to
    resource a transnational effort to investigate, analyze, and
    interdict the most powerful crime networks operating between
    sub-Saharan Africa and Asia. Let's not just focus on wildlife
    crime. Let's get them for all of their illegal activities.
        Two, we need to build constituencies. The U.S. Government
    needs to engage trusted partners in the NGO and conservation
    community, some of whom are sitting on, literally, terabytes of
    data about wildlife trafficking networks that intersect with
    U.S. international and regional security interests. This
    engagement should be handled privately and quietly. Many
    organizations fighting wildlife crime and human trafficking in
    Asia, Africa, and Latin America are doing so at great personal
    risk to themselves.
        We also need to be sharing analysis about these convergence
    patterns with foreign security officials in Asia in order to
    spur their cooperation. Authorities in China, Malaysia,
    Vietnam, and other consumer nations are not concerned about the
    wildlife trade, but they will likely take a greater interest if
    they realize its close connection to the illicit drug trade
    which does worry them. Three, we need to break the systems
    supporting wildlife crime. It is too easy for criminals to hide
    in the cracks in the global financial, transport, and
    communication system.
        We at CINTOC have been focused this year on the social
    media industry. There is an astonishing amount of wildlife
    being traded on U.S. publicly listed social media firms
    including Facebook and WeChat. Having analyzed thousands of
    posts for illegal ivory on social media, CINTOC has concluded
    the social media industry is a primary enabler connecting
    illegal wildlife traders to customers in a marketplace that is
    global, anonymous, and at this point, completely free of
    regulation.
        These firms are literally facilitating the elephants'
    extinction. The National Whistleblower Center has filed
    complaints to the Securities and Exchange Commission about this
    illegal activity, and if Congress wants action now it should
    urge the SEC to utilize its regulatory power against these U.S.
    publicly listed firms. I also urge Congress to enact
    legislation along the lines of what banks face with regards to
    money laundering. Social media firms should have to report
    suspected criminal activity and collaborate with law
    enforcement to take it off their platforms.
        So three key points today: Focus on the networks, we know
    who they are; two, resource a transnational law enforcement
    effort and diplomatic effort to target these big networks; and
    three, clean up the systems that facilitate wildlife crime that
    we can impact right here in the United States. Thank you for
    taking the time to hear what I have to say.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Peters follows:]

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                           ----------

        Mr. Royce. Thank you, Ms. Peters. And we are involved with
    Facebook in terms of the points you have raised in order to try
    to get them engaged in the coalition to take decisive action on
    this.
        We go now to Mr. David Stewart, our next panelist here.

      STATEMENT OF MR. DAVE STEWART, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT AND
                        GENERAL COUNSEL, VULCAN

        Mr. Stewart. Chairman Royce, Ranking Member Engel, members
    of the committee, I am honored to appear before you today to
    discuss park management, wildlife trafficking, and poaching. I
    also want to thank you for your leadership in conceiving and
    passing the End Wildlife Trafficking Act during the last
    Congress and continuing to further this important work with the
    DELTA Act during this Congress. Vulcan is proud to support both
    impactful pieces of legislation.
        I will start my testimony today with a positive comment
    about this terrible crime. Across administrations, across the
    aisle, and across our Government, poaching and wildlife
    trafficking are increasingly being recognized not only as an
    environmental tragedy but as an urgent threat to U.S. national
    security interests. This shift in thinking is essential to
    tackling this challenge. The focus must now be on how we bring
    government, business, and philanthropy together to harness our
    combined power and resources to take on wildlife trafficking,
    to dismantle these criminal networks that are driving it, and
    to preserve our natural heritage while protecting global
    security.
        Today I would like to feature what Vulcan is doing to
    support these efforts and I will start with a brief video clip,
    hopefully.
        [Video.]
        As highlighted in the clip, the 2016 Great Elephant Census
    provided urgently needed and previously unavailable data on the
    size and distribution of savanna elephant populations across 18
    range states in Africa, identifying where they and other
    species had been most impacted by poaching and where
    conservation efforts were working well. We unfortunately
    discovered a population decline of 30 percent in those 7 years
    which accelerated over that period.
        Also featured in the clip is the Abu Concession, our
    455,000-acre wildlife reserve in the Okavango Delta in
    Botswana. There we operate two safari camps and our own anti-
    poaching force, fund conservation related research including
    development and operation of drones for integration into anti-
    poaching operations, and work with local communities. My
    written testimony goes into detail about our park management
    approach, but in summary we focus on actively securing the park
    against poaching, operating businesses such as safari camps
    that provide tangible benefits to the local communities through
    employment, through commitment of revenues to build local
    infrastructure so that communities see wildlife as an asset
    that will ultimately reward them, wildlife crime as a threat to
    that asset and their well-being, and prevention of such crime
    as their responsibility. Our on-the-ground park operations
    along with broad engagement across Africa with the GEC
    demonstrated to us the overwhelming amount of data that need to
    be captured in order to effectively protect elephants and other
    wildlife. Therefore, we developed a product called DAS, which
    stands for Domain Awareness System.
        DAS is a military style command and control communications
    system for conservation. It integrates many different data
    sources and enables park management in real time to visualize
    wildlife, rangers and potential illegal activity that threatens
    them, and to deploy the rangers and other resources to
    interdict the illegal activity before they can harm the
    wildlife. This enables park managers to make immediate
    decisions to officially deploy resources for interdiction and
    active wildlife management. DAS is currently deployed in 12
    parks in eight countries in Africa, including three that have
    been identified as ``focus countries'' by the U.S. State
    Department. Among many other countries we plan to deploy DAS
    next, six of them are U.S. ``focus countries.''
        Moving beyond park operations, Vulcan is also providing
    resources to organizations like the PAMS Foundation and the
    National and Transnational Serious Crime Investigation Unit in
    Tanzania, the Wildlife Crime Prevention Project and
    Conservation South Luangwa in Zambia, and the Lilongwe Wildlife
    Trust in Malawi. In particular, NTSCIU has in recent years been
    instrumental in over 1,400 arrests and 360 prison sentences
    issued for wildlife crimes.
        In the years to come, Vulcan will have invested upwards of
    $60 million in terrestrial and maritime technologies to counter
    wildlife crime. We don't expect to recoup this investment, but
    we also know we can't scale it alone. We are pursuing public-
    private partnerships with relevant governments and
    international organizations to bring our tested technologies to
    scale.
        Thank you for your tireless work on these issues, and thank
    you for the opportunity to testify before you today and I look
    forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Stewart follows:]

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                   ----------

        Mr. Royce. Thank you, David.
        Doctor?

     STATEMENT OF ELIZABETH L. BENNETT, PH.D., VICE PRESIDENT FOR
          SPECIES CONSERVATION, WILDLIFE CONSERVATION SOCIETY

        Ms. Bennett. Chairman Royce, Ranking Member Engel, and
    members of the committee, thank you for providing this
    opportunity to testify. Please accept my submitted testimony
    for the record as I will summarize that today.
        WCS is deeply concerned by the alarming rate of species
    decline due to illegal hunting, trafficking, habitat loss, and
    human-wildlife conflict. I will summarize what is working,
    identify gaps, and recommend where the U.S. Government and
    Congress in particular can assist. WCS was founded in 1895 with
    the goal of saving wildlife and wild places. Today we work in
    more than 60 countries and across the world's oceans. Our work
    is grounded in high quality science and in strong long-term
    partnerships with governments, local communities and indigenous
    groups.
        Poaching for the illegal wildlife trade is devastating many
    species around the world. A hundred years ago, up to 100,000
    tigers roamed Asia. By 2011 that was down to just about 3,000.
    African forest elephants declined by 62 percent over 10 years
    due to killing for their ivory. Many other species are affected
    by high levels of poaching for the trade, for the medicine,
    food, and pet trades such as pangolins, songbirds, parrots,
    tortoises and turtles, sharks and rays. Many large charismatic
    species threatened by trafficking play key ecological roles.
    Their loss has many implications including loss of food
    security for marginalized rural people and reduced resilience
    to climate change.
        The illegal trade is often driven by organized criminal
    groups with links to other forms of organized crime and that
    weakens rule of law and security for communities living
    alongside wildlife. In recent years, the world is taking this
    threat seriously. The U.N. General Assembly has passed three
    resolutions on wildlife trafficking. The U.S. Government
    expanded the executive order on transnational organized crime
    to include wildlife trafficking. And thanks to the leadership
    of Chairman Royce and Ranking Member Engel, wildlife crime
    serve as predicate offenses to Federal money laundering
    prosecutions.
        Preventing poaching requires the establishment of protected
    areas and managing them effectively. WCS with partners
    developed the GPS-based software enforcement program, SMART,
    which is now deployed in over 600 sites in 55 countries. In
    addition to increasing patrol efficiency, this increases
    transparency and helps reduce corruption. With long-term
    programs and sufficient investment, poaching can be curtailed.
    In Huai Kha Khaeng National Park, Thailand, in the past 10
    years tiger numbers have increased by 50 percent. With the
    critical support of USAID's CARPE program WCS in northern
    Congo's Nouabale-Ndoki National Park trains rangers and
    conducts SMART patrols. Forest elephant numbers there have
    remained stable since 2006 even while they have plummeted
    across much of Central Africa.
        WCS works with governments and other law enforcement
    partners to dismantle wildlife trafficking networks. With the
    vital support of USAID, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and INL
    we have achieved measurable success. In Indonesia, WCS's
    Wildlife Crimes Unit gathers intelligence and assists law
    enforcement. Since its formation in 2003, more than 1,000
    prosecutors have been trained, 70 percent of the tiger criminal
    networks in northern Sumatra have been dismantled, and more
    than 600 suspects have been arrested with a sentencing rate of
    over 90 percent. Support from INL is also helping us to act at
    transcontinental levels. We are working along key trade routes
    such as the one between Mozambique and Vietnam and China. Even
    though we are having success, we are not bringing this up to
    scale.
        Urgently needed is continued U.S. Government funding. WCS
    is deeply concerned about the administration's proposed cuts to
    critical programs to combat wildlife trafficking in the fiscal
    year 2019 budget. We thank the 74 Members of Congress and 26
    senators who urged appropriators to fully restore cuts at a
    time when so much more needs to be done. These include
    restoring level funding for the USAID biodiversity program,
    CARPE, and for that to commit to a fourth phase, the Combating
    Wildlife Trafficking initiative implemented by INL and USAID
    and the U.S. Contribution to the GEF.
        Regarding the End Wildlife Trafficking Act, we urge this
    committee to ensure full consultations with NGOs operating in
    focus countries. And regarding the DELTA Act, we urge the
    committee to fully integrate protected area management and land
    use planning into the strategy. We appreciate that the U.S.
    Government has successfully raised the profile of wildlife
    trafficking as serious crime and provides tools and attaches
    overseas to tackle it. But it is vital that the U.S. continues
    to demonstrate its leadership on the global stage. We need
    focused, coordinated action and leadership if the world's wild
    species and vulnerable people living alongside them are to
    thrive to future generations. Thank you very much.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Bennett follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                     ----------

        Mr. Royce. Thank you. So as you indicated, Dr. Bennett, you
    had a situation where the tiger numbers have increased by 50
    percent in the park land there in Thailand as a result of these
    patrols. And the real question is, what is the most effective
    steps we can take under the End Wildlife Trafficking Act?
        We had some comments from Ms. Peters about Operation Crash
    and Operation Jungle Book. And I would ask you, Ms. Peters,
    what have we learned from these operations and how can law
    enforcement better utilize the authority that we have given
    them here now that we have the working group? As you say, the
    SEC should use its regulatory authority to push as well on
    Facebook, give us your thoughts there. How can we better
    coordinate this interagency process? How can we get these
    convictions?
        Ms. Peters. Chairman Royce, I think there have been some
    real successes as I said in these U.S.-based operations and
    both Operation Crash and Operation Jungle Book, which involves
    cooperation between U.S. Fish and Wildlife and Homeland
    Security and Customs, are examples of that. I think where there
    is room for more interagency collaboration is in the
    international sphere. Those were both operations here in the
    United States.
        The real critical threat to wildlife outside of the social
    media issue, the real critical threat to wildlife is in other
    parts of the world, the enormous amounts of ivory, pangolin
    scales, rhino horn that have been trafficked from Africa, to
    Asia in particular, and other products, environmentally
    sensitive products, rare hardwoods, tropical fish, et cetera.
    There has been a real increase that I have observed in Africa
    in cooperation between the Drug Enforcement Administration and
    Fish and Wildlife law enforcement.
        The Drug Enforcement Administration is also collaborating
    now for the first time in its history with conservation groups.
    I was just on the phone with an agent in sub-Saharan Africa, I
    won't say which country, yesterday, who was trying to get
    information from me about wildlife trafficking networks in that
    country. They are starting to recognize, or I should say that
    organization very much recognizes that the networks that are
    trafficking wildlife are also moving dangerous drugs and that
    they can get better wins from collaborating with them. And so
    this is an area where I think we can get more cooperation.
        I also want to take a moment to thank you, Chairman Royce,
    for your support during the operation. We supported in Kenya,
    the ICCF was absolutely instrumental in helping us get those
    four men extracted from Kenya. Not just your members here in
    Congress pushing the administration to ask Kenya to have them
    extradited, but also Dr. Amina Abdalla, the head of the ICCF in
    Kenya, brought together a whole group of Kenyan congress
    members and pushed the Kenyan Government as well. So that type
    of legislative or congressional support is another area where I
    think we can have real improvement.
        And I think there could be real engagement in consumer
    nations to help the Chinese and the Vietnamese, and the
    Malaysians in particular, understand the links between, or the
    convergence between narcotics, weapons trafficking, human
    trafficking, and the wildlife trade. The same networks that
    have the capacity to move a container of heroin through the
    global transport system have the capacity to move a container
    with ivory or pangolin scales, and it is following the same
    routes.
        We have mapped the supply chains that are moving heroin
    from Afghanistan into Africa. In some cases the seizures have
    the same bags from Pakistan with Pakistani Rice on them. It is
    the same, the paths aren't exactly the same. The drugs are
    coming out of Afghanistan into the Swahili coast, then it gets
    repackaged. It goes back to Asia. The boats go back to Asia.
    There is intersections with human trafficking particularly with
    regard to the rhino horn trade in Mozambique and South Africa
    going into Vietnam. So there is enormous amount of data to be
    exploited.
        Mr. Royce. That is why we have the task force. We just want
    those tools that you have laid out. We want them to apply them
    effectively in doing their job.
        I have to ask you, Mr. Stewart, how do we best get the buy-
    in from the people that call these areas home? How do we ensure
    that they feel the benefits of conservation in the Okavango
    River basin where, you know, obviously we are going to need
    their involvement?
        Mr. Stewart. Mr. Chairman, I think there are at least three
    components to that--creation of incentive structures,
    education, and storytelling. In our experience, local
    communities will reliably and consistently participate in
    conservation efforts only if they see tangible benefits from
    preserving the wild animals and the natural resources therein.
    We can do that through employment. Tourism provides a great
    opportunity for that and that is something we have done.
        So provide jobs for people who live in the local
    communities, use revenues from those businesses to build up
    infrastructure like basics--bore holes for water, building
    schools, providing food for students at school, and again that
    gives some buy-in. So that these wild animals are not just the
    things that endanger their kids, knock down their fences, and
    eat their crops, but they are actually an asset they see they
    have an interest in and see the benefit from that. That, I
    think, helps build the political will for them to want to take
    wildlife crime seriously and support those efforts as well as
    provide intelligence to the efforts. On education, it is
    unfortunate that many people that live right along the border
    of parks are completely disengaged from what goes within and
    from seeing the animals that live therein and the benefits that
    come from that. So, it is important to engage community members
    at a young age, programs and initiative that involve school
    children, conservation clubs at school that are funded by
    conservation or teach about conservation.
        And finally storytelling. Our Vulcan Productions unit has
    done a number of documentaries and television series that
    explore conservation and wildlife issues related to wildlife
    trafficking, but it is important to show those not only here in
    the West but in the elephant range states and places where
    these other wildlife live. So we brought our documentary, The
    Ivory Game, to communities in Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, and
    Malawi are working with local schools and nonprofit
    organizations to showcase the story of what is happening to the
    animals that live in those countries, and working closely with
    the U.S. Embassies to use these films for community screenings
    where poaching and wildlife crimes are frequent reality.
        Mr. Royce. Thanks, Mr. Stewart.
        We go now to Mr. Engel.
        Mr. Engel. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think obviously we
    should do everything possible through technology, law
    enforcement, and other means to prevent poachers from
    slaughtering threatened species, but as long as there is demand
    for ivory, rhino horn, and other wildlife products there are
    obviously going to be people willing to take the risk to supply
    that demand and we obviously won't be able to stop all of them.
        So it seems to me that we also need to focus on reducing
    demand, so let me ask you, Dr. Bennett, since you really have,
    I am aware of the Wildlife Conservation Society and the good
    work you do. Tell us what we can do to better convince
    consumers mainly in Asian countries to stop buying these
    products. And I know we have seen advertisements from time to
    time with celebrities and horrific pictures of dead elephants.
    Have those advertisements and pictures made a difference and
    what other approaches might be effective that we are not doing
    that we should do?
        Ms. Bennett. Thank you very much, Ranking Member Engel, for
    that. It is an extremely good question because, at the end of
    the day, while there is still the demand, as you say, there
    will still be the poaching. One thing that can be done is just
    straight change the law which China has done for ivory. There
    was a National Geographic survey done a few years ago now which
    asked members of the public in China what would cause them to
    stop buying ivory, and the single greatest answer was if it is
    made illegal and that has now been done. It has been made
    illegal, which is great, and now there is the task of enforcing
    it and taking it off the market.
        That doesn't actually necessarily reduce people wanting to
    buy it and buying it through the black market and one of the
    real concerns is that people from China and Vietnam will
    actually go to other countries with weaker laws and weaker law
    enforcement on their borders, so go and take a holiday in Laos
    or Cambodia and bring back some wildlife products. It is a very
    hard one to answer.
        We know a lot about the science of stopping poaching and a
    lot about how to stop trafficking. There is no one clear answer
    to how to change people's behavior. And a lot of people have
    tried different things, but it is not very clear what changes
    people's behavior. So, for example, within China for shark fin
    there have been a lot of campaigns including using celebrities
    about buying shark's fin, which have probably had quite an
    effect in building up a groundswell, but the single thing that
    took shark's fin off the market was President Xi Jinping saying
    this is a sign of sort of corruption and affluence and luxury,
    and stopped government officers buying shark's fin.
        So it is really hard to know. And legal bans themselves
    don't necessarily change demand. In fact, for some things such
    as pangolin, people buy it because it is illegal and that gives
    an additional status because it shows that you are above the
    law. So it is a very complex question. We don't actually know
    the answer.
        There is a project going on at the Oxford Martin School in
    the U.K. for 3 years at the moment to examine exactly that
    question, what do we know and what works and therefore how can
    we change our programs in future.
        Mr. Engel. Thank you very much.
        Ms. Peters, let me ask you this. You note that Facebook has
    become a major platform for selling illegal wildlife products.
    Tell me how you think they are acting. Do you think Facebook is
    taking this problem seriously? Have you seen any improvements
    in their practices? Does the same problem exist on other Web
    sites or other social media platforms?
        Ms. Peters. Yes, the problem exists on a number of social
    media platforms. Facebook in particular has been made aware of
    this problem multiple times over the past few years. The
    Wildlife Justice Committee held a 2-day seminar in The Hague in
    2015 and I don't believe Facebook even sent anybody. So a 2-day
    seminar was held about the problem, a number of reports have
    been published by WWF, by IFAW, and other organizations
    detailing the problem, and Facebook and a number of other tech
    firms have joined a coalition promising to remove wildlife from
    their platforms by 2020. Our investigators were online looking
    at the issue just last week and it was business as normal.
        I think that the days for talking to the leaders of social
    media firms are over. They have been told multiple times by
    multiple organizations including U.S. Fish and Wildlife law
    enforcement that this problem exists and they have done nothing
    about it.
        Mr. Engel. You know, Ms. Peters, we had Mr. Zuckerberg here
    about 3 or 4 weeks ago. I am so sorry that we didn't ask him
    this question.
        Ms. Peters. A number of members did ask him about it and he
    said he was aware it was a problem and they were working on it.
    I think they would work a lot faster if the threat of a
    multimillion dollar fine from the SEC was hanging over their
    heads.
        Mr. Engel. And if I may, thank you.
        Let me ask Mr. Stewart, since I have asked the other two
    questions, the administration in its fiscal year 2019 budget
    unfortunately proposed significant reductions for wildlife
    trafficking and other key international conservation programs.
    I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the impact that
    those proposed funding levels have on our ability to
    effectively address these issues. Obviously with less money you
    can do less, but where do you see it impacting?
        Mr. Stewart. Well, clearly more resources are good for the
    effort. Certainly I think Fish and Wildlife having attaches in
    various Embassies throughout Africa have been a great force. We
    have been more focused though, I think, in terms of what to do
    given the situation in trying to encourage public-private
    partnerships to make sure that government funds that are
    available are spent as effectively and efficiently as they can
    be.
        And I think a great example of that is the bill sponsored
    by a number of members of the committee, the DELTA Act. It is
    important that the bill calls for government to work with
    business and to work with philanthropy in developing technology
    and applying efforts across those areas. This is at least what
    we are trying to be involved in to make up for any reduced
    funding on the government part, and I think that provides a
    great path.
        And it is important as we embark on that as the DELTA Act
    calls for it to if we are going to go in and try to work with
    Angola to listen to Angola. And I think the upcoming codel that
    this committee is undertaking is an important opportunity to
    build relationships with the legislators and officials in
    Angola. In our discussions with Angola, I have heard an
    interest in diversifying the economy and when we look at the
    promising Cuando Cubango in southern Angola there is a great
    opportunity to see that development and conservation can go
    hand in hand along with agriculture, fishing, and other
    traditional----
        Mr. Engel. Thank you.
        Mr. Stewart. So that is what we are focused on.
        Mr. Engel. Thank you. My time is up. Thank you, Madam
    Chair.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen [presiding]. Thank you.
        The Chair recognizes herself. First, I wanted to commend
    Chairman Royce and the other co-chairs of the International
    Conservation Caucus for their leadership and efforts to ensure
    that the United States implements stronger and more effective
    conservation policies. I am not only a proud member of the
    Caucus, but I am also pleased to sign on to the DELTA Act that
    we have been discussing as an original co-sponsor and I do
    sincerely hope that we pass this measure after our hearing
    today and quickly bring it to the floor for a vote.
        The DELTA Act as you pointed out is vital to creating a
    transnational strategy that leverages the experience and the
    expertise of stakeholders in the private and public sectors to
    combat wildlife trafficking and to spur economic growth in the
    Okavango River basin. It also authorizes key U.S. assistance
    programs to prioritize and promote development through
    conservation and building partner nations' anti-poaching
    capacity. We have a tremendous opportunity before us to take
    action now while we still have the ability to protect Africa's
    most expansive inland water system and it is still in all of
    our interests to do so before it is too late. We also have an
    opportunity to address conservation policy worldwide and that
    is why this hearing comes at a critical time as we are now at a
    crossroads. The high demand for ivory in Africa and other
    wildlife products in Asia has seen poaching and trafficking
    rise to new levels, new levels that threaten the very existence
    of some of the planet's most precious species. But this in turn
    has raised awareness and has led many nations to begin to take
    meaningful action to help reverse this trend. And key to this
    has been the United States leadership through initiatives such
    as Chairman Royce's End Wildlife Trafficking Act and through
    other conservation and trafficking programs as well as law
    enforcement efforts.
        Many of our colleagues on this committee have focused in
    recent years on the role of transnational criminal
    organizations and terror groups in illegal wildlife
    trafficking. The high demand for some of these products has
    made this illicit activity a lucrative one for these groups and
    the lax security measures, whether the result of inefficient
    resources, corruption, or other deficiencies makes this
    practice a serious threat to U.S. national security interests.
    By countering these illegal wildlife trafficking activities of
    these illicit groups we have the added benefit of cutting off a
    critical supply of revenue while also protecting endangered
    species.
        But to be successful as you have pointed out it has to
    start with getting host country buy-in and it is not a one-
    size-fits-all. You have cited some examples where it has worked
    in some countries, but in many cases state actors are complicit
    in these crimes with corruption oftentimes being a major
    obstacle to accomplishing our objectives. We have seen this so
    many times in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere.
        So my question is how do we get host country buy-in from
    governments, from local law enforcement agencies, from local
    communities to join in efforts to curb this illicit practice
    when corruption is so pervasive and it is so lucrative?
        Ms. Peters. Ma'am, you have touched on what I think is one
    of the core drivers of the conservation issue around the world,
    corruption. I think in many countries, many parts of Africa,
    corruption is the elephant's biggest threat. It can be very
    challenging to find able and willing partners in these parts of
    the world.
        I had the opportunity to work with the Government of Gabon
    as their advisor on transnational organized crime for 2 years
    and that was an environment that was very, very corrupt. We
    literally for a while couldn't find a single judge in the
    country that wasn't on the take in order to bring the cases in.
    The commander, Uvare Ekoga (phonetic), who I worked with used
    to say that corruption was a far bigger threat to him than the
    transnational criminal networks that we were trying to target.
        But we were able to find slowly but surely trusted
    partners. And with the support of President Bongo we were able
    to put them in place. But it really did take that top-down
    support from the President, from the presidency of Gabon, and
    from his secret service and some of his police. If we hadn't
    have had that we would have been lost.
        Alternatively, the project I worked on in Kenya it took
    more than 2 years to get the Akashas extradited and once they
    came out and some of them started cooperating, it became clear
    that everybody in the system, the prosecutors, the judges,
    right up to some of the leaders of that country were taking
    payoffs to stop their extradition from happening. And I can
    cite other examples in other countries.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you. Those are excellent examples.
        Ms. Peters. It is a terrible problem. We do really need to
    make anti-corruption the focus and it is one the reasons that I
    argue the U.S. needs to use its extraterritorial legislation
    and not count on the notion that some of these smaller African
    nations with very, very compromised judicial systems are going
    to be able to take down these networks. We are going to have to
    do it for them.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much. And I apologize, Mr.
    Stewart and Dr. Bennett. I went on too long and I am out of
    time.
        Ms. Titus of Nevada?
        Ms. Titus. Thank you. I want to thank Chairman Royce and
    the ranking member Engel too for making this a priority for
    this committee. I think it is very important. I am a co-sponsor
    of the DELTA Act and I look forward to its passing. I also
    thank the witnesses for the things that they have done in this
    area and I think the United States has made some progress.
        But I sense a trend that is concerning to me and some of
    the things that you have mentioned I would like to point out
    others. I think we are taking two steps forward and one step
    back. If you look at what is happening lately, you have
    proposed cuts to the budget that is going to make it difficult
    to continue in this policy area. You have several regulatory
    actions that have taken place with the Fish and Wildlife
    Service. You have the memorandum on trophy hunting, now we are
    going to consider trophies on a case-by-case basis as opposed
    to having an overall policy. And the second one that is just
    coming out more recently is that the extreme hunting rules that
    allow us now to hunt baby bears and wolf cubs in their lairs. I
    don't think that is a step in the right direction.
        And then third, you have Interior Secretary, Mr. Zinke,
    creating a International Wildlife Conservation Council. That is
    kind of like calling the agency that allows more pollution the
    Blue Sky Initiative. If you look at who is on the commission it
    is somebody from the Safari Club, the Sportsmen's Foundation,
    the director of hunting policy at the NRA, and several other
    groups that promote trophy hunting. Now if we are going to lead
    by example, I don't think these are very good examples and I
    wonder if you all would comment on what you see as problems
    that might be created by this new trend under the Trump
    administration.
        Doctor?
        Ms. Bennett. Thank you very much indeed. We share your
    concerns on all of those same issues. In relation to the trophy
    hunting issue just picking up on that one, it is a particularly
    important one because trophy hunting can be an extremely good
    conservation tool if used appropriately. And it keeps a lot of
    land, particularly in Africa but other parts of the world,
    under wild habitat by giving an economic value for it if it is
    well managed.
        So, for example, we work on an operation on trophy hunting
    of markhor sheep in Pakistan and support the local communities
    there and it is helping them to conserve the markhor sheep. But
    as an industry it is notoriously corrupt, and the U.S. by
    having very strict regulations and a good policy previously has
    not contributed to the problem. But by loosening the
    regulations then that really is a concern because it is corrupt
    all along the scale from getting licenses to hunt the wrong
    species, the wrong age, the wrong sex.
        And while the exporting countries where the hunting is
    being done we don't always have a lot of control over, but we
    have control over the importing countries for those trophies so
    yes, we share that same concern. Thank you.
        Ms. Titus. Ms. Peters?
        Ms. Peters. I also want to second what Dr. Bennett said
    about hunting in certain cases being a tool for conservation. I
    also want to second what she said about the importance of it
    being well regulated, that we have done a number of
    investigations into poorly managed hunting programs or poaching
    that is taking place under the guise of hunting particularly in
    places like South Africa with regards to rhino.
        So I agree. I don't think it is a good idea to be loosening
    regulations in the United States around hunting. We have fairly
    well managed hunting programs domestically and we should have
    the same level of legislation about it internationally.
        Ms. Titus. Mr. Stewart, do you want to add anything?
        Mr. Stewart. You know, I certainly think the efforts
    against international wildlife trafficking has a number of
    great allies in Congress both on the Democratic and Republican
    side, so I trust that those legislators will work to try to
    maintain and restore adequate funding for the international
    efforts and programs that the U.S. has been conducting that
    have been proven to be effective.
        Ms. Titus. Well, I think there is a lot to be said for
    legislation, for regulation, but also for leading by example.
    And a picture of a President's son standing over a dead
    elephant or a giraffe doesn't seem to me to be leading by
    example at a time when even China is moving in the opposite
    direction. So I think it should be an all-encompassing policy
    not just focused on the criminal aspects of it. So thank you
    very much. I yield back.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much.
        Mr. Smith of New Jersey?
        Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you
    to our distinguished panel for your leadership and for your
    insights you have provided the committee today. Let me just ask
    a few questions.
        Tragically, an estimated 30,000 African elephants are
    killed every year. Eastern and central Africa continue to face
    high levels of poaching. In the last decade these regions have
    lost 50 percent of their elephant populations. And while
    populations in eastern Africa have stabilized, central African
    elephant populations continue to decline and remain deeply
    unstable for species survival. I wonder if you could explain to
    us why these discrepancies. If you could also add what happens
    in places like the DR Congo where there is extreme political
    instability, how does that exacerbate the situation?
        Let me also ask with regards to, and we have done this in
    the past, as have you, in trying to push for a greater
    integration of our antiterrorism efforts because obviously much
    money is derived from this illegality, are we coordinating
    better on that front to ensure that the LRA, groups like Boko
    Haram, Al-Shabaab, and others are not deriving profits in order
    to fund their nefarious enterprises?
        And then finally on the issue of reducing demand in Asia,
    obviously the ivory bans in China, Hong Kong, and Singapore
    were very strong steps demonstrating political will, but I am
    wondering if you can tell us--and, Dr. Bennett, you mentioned
    making it illegal how important that was in China, but is there
    also the perverse outcome where now that it is illegal it
    drives up the price which again brings ill-begotten gains to
    those who are poaching and selling ivory and other products
    abroad?
        Ms. Peters. I want to just start by saying that I think
    that at any time one is fighting a serious crime issue like
    this there have to be efforts both on the demand side and on
    the supply side. My work tends to be on the supply side
    focusing on disrupting criminal networks.
        But one of the reasons, one of the many reasons that I am
    passionate about the conservation issue is that there is that
    there is some very, I would say, proactive work going on by a
    number of big organizations like WildAid, a lot of celebrities
    are involved. There are some creative efforts to figure out
    what can be done to spur demand reduction, and as the other
    panelists have said we have seen some very positive signs from
    the government in China to tighten up its laws and to ban these
    products.
        But is it going to take work on both sides if we are going
    to save these species. My objective when I got involved in
    this, I never believed that we would be able to stop all
    wildlife crime but I thought that maybe we could knock some of
    the biggest networks off course enough to give these species
    the chance to come back. And I think now and then we have
    managed to get a punch in like when we got the Akashas
    extradited, but it is often hard to feel optimistic with the
    number of animals that are being lost.
        Now you mentioned the conditions. I just want to make one
    quick comment about that which is to say that there are some
    organizations that even in very, very difficult circumstances
    are able to save animal populations. There was a terrific story
    yesterday in the New York Times about Africa parks efforts in
    Chad in Zakouma National Park where they have brought back
    elephant populations.
        There is also a very interesting project in Mozambique in
    Gorongosa where the wildlife had virtually been wiped out by
    decades of civil war. At great expense and effort they have
    reintroduced a lot of species and that wild area is being
    restored. So these areas aren't necessarily lost forever. We
    can bring these populations back again. The rhino was almost
    poached to extinction in the 1980s and its populations were to
    some degree restored. They are under very, very serious threat
    again now, but their biggest enemies are crime and corruption.
    That is what we need to focus on fighting if we are going to
    save these species.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you.
        Mr. Stewart. I agree with Ms. Peters, and a couple points.
    On the supply side, I think we have to just make it as
    expensive and as harrowing as we possibly can to source ivory,
    to source rhino horn, to source these animals that drive it.
    Whether it is meeting the poachers on the ground or disrupting
    their international networks, we need to hit it at all points
    of the chain. I also agree with Ms. Peters, time and again it
    has been shown whether it is Grumeti in the Serengeti, whether
    it is in Gorongosa in Mozambique or elsewhere that if you
    protect a habitat with a large carrying capacity it will
    regenerate and the animals will come back. You just have to
    protect them.
        You asked about coordination. I think there is a lot more
    that we can do on the defense and intelligence side in terms of
    engaging them. Our experience is that the U.S. intelligence
    community can and wants to do more. They have been tracking
    transnational criminals and illicit financing deals for decades
    and we have got to try to figure out how to build the systems
    that have been used in other contexts to enable classified and
    unclassified data to be used together to draw connections, to
    drive useful data so that the classified information can be
    protected.
        But the lessons drawn from that in combination with other
    information can give us the way to disrupt these networks.
    There is more to do on that but the participants seem willing.
        Ms. Bennett. Thank you very much indeed for the question.
    To answer the question on why discrepancies that some of it is
    tied in with corruption, why does Botswana have the largest
    elephant population remaining, because if you look at
    Transparency International's map of countries it is the least
    corrupt country in sub-Saharan Africa. So that is one link to
    it. Another link is the fact that you have a severe difference
    between savanna and forest. Rainforests are, I mean I can't
    even see from here to you in a rainforest so looking out for
    poachers is incredibly difficult. You can do it by airplane in
    savanna, you can't in forest. So it is much more difficult to
    track and catch poachers in forest.
        And the other issue is the forest elephants have actually
    got a harder ivory than savanna elephants, and so for certain
    types of carving it is preferred and that means it has a higher
    price. So for all those reasons the rainforest countries tend
    to be the more difficult ones to deal with on the elephant
    poaching crisis.
        In terms of the ivory price, in the year prior to the ban
    actually coming into effect in China, the ivory price went well
    down in anticipation of the closure of the market. What is
    happening to it now the market is closed, I don't know, but
    certainly in the year before, in 2017, the ivory price went
    down very significantly in China.
        The one confounding issue that is going on in China, which
    is a little difficult to know quite how to deal with, is the
    large amounts of sales of mammoth ivory. And if you go around
    the markets in southern China now you see mammoth ivory for
    sale and that is not illegal. There is more and more of it
    becoming available due to climate change as the tundra in
    Siberia melts and so there is more and more accessible mammoth
    ivory.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you. Thank you very much.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you very much.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you, Mr. Smith.
        Mr. Connolly of Virginia?
        Mr. Connolly. Thank you.
        And Dr. Bennett, if you can pull that microphone just a
    little closer to you, thank you. I appreciate it. Dr. Bennett,
    do you think the Trump administration is helpful in its
    policies with respect to what we are talking about here today?
        Ms. Bennett. Thank you very much indeed. The core things
    that are a real concern that we have talked about here today, I
    mean it is partly as was pointed out earlier with some of the
    loosening of some the regulations but the most important thing
    is the cutting of the budgets. And we are not going to solve
    this problem and the U.S. is not going to continue to be a
    leader in helping solve the problem while budgets are being cut
    because it is vital to have the resources to do this work
    around the world. Thank you.
        Mr. Connolly. Well, I mean it makes one wonder about the
    commitment at all. Let me see. Last year, Interior Secretary
    Ryan Zinke suspended all of the Interior Department's advisory
    committees including the Advisory Council on Wildlife
    Trafficking and the Wildlife and Hunting Heritage Conservation
    Council. Is that correct?
        Ms. Bennett. Yes. That is correct for that----
        Mr. Connolly. Is that a helpful step?
        Ms. Bennett. No, it is not a terribly helpful step. And the
    forming of the International Wildlife Conservation Council as
    was pointed out with the composition of its members is also not
    a very helpful step because it is not going to be a very
    objective panel.
        Mr. Connolly. So the U.S. Task Force on Wildlife
    Trafficking which was codified by the End Wildlife Trafficking
    Act has been inactive since Trump took office; is that correct?
        Ms. Bennett. Can you repeat the question?
        Mr. Connolly. Sorry?
        Ms. Bennett. Sorry. Can you repeat the question?
        Mr. Connolly. Yes, I can. I said, since Trump took office
    the U.S. Task Force on Wildlife Trafficking which was codified
    in the End Wildlife Trafficking Act by this Congress has been
    inactive. Is that helpful?
        Ms. Bennett. I am afraid I am not familiar with that. The
    transnational organized executive order on integrated wildlife
    trafficking has been helpful and that has been done under this
    administration.
        Mr. Connolly. The Trump administration in his budget
    slashed funding for international conservation programs
    including cutting USAID's biodiversity program by more than
    two-thirds and eliminating the USFW's international species
    program. Are those helpful actions?
        Ms. Bennett. No, those are not helpful actions. And in my
    written testimony we have actually put through all the cuts
    that are in there and that is a very major cause for concern.
    Thank you.
        Mr. Connolly. I just think that is important to get on the
    record. Earlier this year----
        Mr. Chabot. Would the gentleman yield?
        Mr. Connolly. Real briefly, yes.
        Mr. Chabot. Okay. Very quickly, none of those cuts in the
    Trump budget actually went into effect so they didn't really do
    anything, I think; isn't that correct?
        Mr. Connolly. Reclaiming my time.
        Mr. Chabot. Okay.
        Mr. Connolly. The point here is what the intent of the
    administration is. And while Congress has shown restraint with
    respect to Trump budget cuts, we are getting at what is the
    nature of the commitment of this administration. And my point
    is that Congress notwithstanding, we are retreating on the very
    things we are having a hearing about here today led by the
    President and his administration. And let me give another
    example. Earlier this year, Dr. Bennett, the Trump
    administration reversed, because it loves reversing, Obama-era
    ban on big game trophies including elephant tusks and lion
    hides under the supposed rationale that such trophies actually
    support wildlife conservation.
        Is there any evidence that actually trophy hunting
    contributes to wildlife conservation, Dr. Bennett?
        Ms. Bennett. Yes, it can contribute to wildlife
    conservation if it is well managed. It needs to be very well
    managed and very well controlled because it is so notoriously
    corrupt. One reason it contributes is because of the amount of
    land that is on the game reserves allowed for trophy hunting.
        Mr. Connolly. But let me ask you, did the Wildlife
    Conservation Fund support the original Obama ban on wildlife
    trophy hunting?
        Ms. Bennett. The ban that I am familiar with was the one
    that was specific to two countries which were particularly
    corrupt and were not managing their trophies well. And yes, we
    supported that.
        Mr. Connolly. So do you, presumably then if you supported
    it, you did not support the reversal of that ban.
        Ms. Bennett. No. There needs to be controls. There really
    needs to be controls.
        Mr. Connolly. Right.
        Ms. Peters, any comment on that in terms of big game
    trophy?
        Ms. Peters. Not on the trophy issue, no. But on the issue
    of cutting resources, I just want to say as somebody who has
    been out on the front lines of where law enforcement is
    fighting this problem, those law enforcement officials, U.S. in
    particular, in Africa and Asia are incredibly under-resourced,
    still. We have had requests, for example, from the U.S.
    Treasury that would like to put some wildlife traffickers on
    the OFAC list but they have never been given any budget to
    investigate it, so they can only do it if it falls under some
    other organized issue.
        I have worked with agents from Homeland Security, Fish and
    Wildlife law enforcement, and the Drug Enforcement
    Administration while there will be one or two agents covering
    12 or 13 different countries in Africa, each of them wracked by
    organized crime and corruption. We are still, these folks are
    so under-resourced out there and we really need to support them
    better and support private organizations that are out there
    trying to help them.
        Mr. Connolly. So I take what you are saying, bottom line,
    it is bad enough as it is--sweeping cuts in the program will
    only make it worse.
        Ms. Bennett. Exactly. That is what I am saying.
        Mr. Connolly. I thank you.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Royce [presiding]. Thank you. We go now to Mr. Joe
    Wilson of South Carolina. Thank you, Mr. Connolly.
        Mr. Wilson. And thank you, Mr. Chairman. I now yield for
    such time as he may consume to Congressman Steve Chabot of
    Ohio.
        Mr. Chabot. I thank the gentleman for yielding and I won't
    take up much of his time. But I just wanted to follow up on
    what my friend and colleague from the Commonwealth of Virginia
    just said about Trump administration's alleged cuts to various
    programs that protect or save endangered animals or any animals
    around the----
        Mr. Connolly. Would my friend yield?
        Mr. Chabot. It is not my time so let me talk.
        Mr. Connolly. Well, I thought it was your time.
        Mr. Chabot. Only shortly, but it is Mr. Wilson's time.
        Mr. Connolly. Oh.
        Mr. Chabot. He yielded to me.
        In any event, the cuts that were talked about in the Trump
    administration budget never happened. And then to say Congress
    notwithstanding, well, our budgets and what we pass here along
    ultimately with the President, whether it is an omnibus bill or
    whatever it is, that is what ultimately matters to these
    programs. And I think Congress over the years has been pretty
    responsible in a bipartisan manner to make sure that we are
    protecting as much as possible the endangered animals that we
    are talking about whether they are in Africa or here in this
    country for that matter.
        So I just wouldn't leave the impression out there that
    because the President in trying to deal with a $20 trillion
    budget and having limited ability to do that oftentimes cuts
    things all across the board and then when it gets to Congress
    working with the administration we generally, together, do the
    responsible thing which is not to cut back on these important
    programs. And I thank the gentleman for yielding.
        Mr. Wilson. And thank you, and indeed we appreciate the
    active involvement by persons from Ohio and the Old Dominion of
    Virginia.
        Thank you for being here today. And for each of you, U.S.
    support for anti-wildlife trafficking efforts abroad focus on
    sourcing countries where the animals live including in Africa,
    trafficking transit hubs and countries with high demand. U.S.
    agencies involved in such programs include the Departments of
    State, Interior, Justice, and Defense, as well as the FWS and
    the U.S. Agency for International Development.
        U.S. efforts support international conservation
    biodiversity goals including law enforcement capacity building,
    support for rule of law, and prosecutorial activities.
    Sustainable conservation cannot occur without supporting local
    communities through promoting economic growth, strengthening
    health systems, creating jobs, providing education resources,
    and support for good governments. U.S. engagement includes
    working with national legislatures and departments of justice
    across the continent to ensure that the legal framework has
    clear and streamlined conservation and trafficking laws.
        In fiscal year 2017, the U.S. provided just over $90
    million to conservation and trafficking programs. The U.S. also
    provides limited funding to multinational organizations that
    implement wildlife trafficking and conservation programs such
    as the U.S. development program and the World Bank's Global
    Environment Facility.
        The question for each of you beginning with Ms. Peters,
    promoting conservation and wildlife protection requires a whole
    of government approach with the State Department, USAID,
    Department of Interior, and Department of Justice needing to
    coordinate efforts abroad to combat illegal poaching and
    trafficking. Have you seen the coordination play out? What can
    U.S. do to improve our response?
        Ms. Peters. Thank you for that question. I would like to
    second a comment that Mr. Stewart made earlier which is to say
    that the way that I believe that we can improve our
    coordination is to engage our intelligence community, national
    security apparatus, and law enforcement community in targeting
    some of the key networks trafficking wildlife, because they are
    not just trafficking wildlife. Even agencies that don't have a
    mandate or an interest in conservation should be interested in
    these networks for the myriad other crimes that they are
    engaged in.
        Thank you, sir.
        Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much.
        And Mr. Stewart?
        Mr. Stewart. Yes, I agree. I think the one area where there
    is the greatest potential for improvement is by again creating
    systems that ensure that we can use classified as well as
    unclassified data to draw the connections to identify the links
    of how to disrupt the international, criminal international
    syndicates that are involved in not only wildlife trafficking
    but illegal fishing, human trafficking, illegal logging, et
    cetera. These are bad guys and we should use all the resources
    we can to go after them.
        Mr. Wilson. Thank you.
        And Dr. Bennett?
        Ms. Bennett. Thank you very much indeed. Yes, the whole of
    government approach clearly is the only way we are going to
    tackle this one. And by doing so, clearly by tackling wildlife
    crime in a sense it is almost a soft way in to improve
    governance and stability across some of these troubled parts of
    the world. But in addition to the intelligence side of things,
    one of the other sectors which would be really great to be
    fully involved is the financial sector to track money
    laundering and follow the money. And the example of Al Capone
    comes to mind. We might not be able to get them on wildlife
    crimes, but we can get them because they are money laundering.
    Thank you.
        Mr. Wilson. And thank you very much, all of you, for your
    thoughtful response. And thank you, Chairman Royce, and Eliot,
    Ranking Member Engel, for the hearing today.
        Mr. Royce. And if the gentleman would yield, we will work
    with Treasury on that weak link in the chain that you have
    raised, that you both raised.
        We go now to Robin Kelly of Illinois.
        Ms. Kelly. I would like to yield 1 minute of my time to
    Gerry Connolly.
        Mr. Connolly. I thank my friend from Illinois. I want to
    respond to my friend from Ohio. Nice try, but budgets reflect
    values. And the values reflected in the Trump actions in both
    the budget and with respect to advisory bodies and policies and
    regulations with respect to this subject, I believe, create a
    hostile environment and show very little sympathy for the cause
    we are examining today in this hearing. And yes, Congress did
    not act on those budget recommendations. That doesn't mean they
    didn't happen. That doesn't mean those values weren't
    represented by the people who wrote that budget and signed by
    that President. And that is the point made here and it
    shouldn't be covered up. And it wasn't an alleged budget
    recommendation, it was a budget. It was published. It was
    presented to Congress. It is a matter of public record and I
    think it is a shameful public record and it ought to be
    exposed. That is my point and I yield back to my good friend
    from Illinois.
        Ms. Kelly. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding
    this hearing today. As a proud co-sponsor of the DELTA Act, I
    am glad that we are having this hearing to highlight
    international illegal trade in wildlife. This issue is not only
    an environmental issue that threatens to wipe out populations
    of endangered species, but it is also a national security
    issue.
        Recently, high demand in Asia has been a driving force in
    the wildlife product trafficking in Africa. This has led to
    terrorist organizations like Boko Haram and Al-Shabaab engaging
    in the wildlife trafficking to finance their operations. Some
    countries in Asia such as China, Hong Kong, and Singapore have
    implemented nearly complete bans on the trade of the elephant
    ivory including putting in place significant restrictions on
    the import of ivory and taking steps to stop their domestic
    ivory trade. The trade, however, has continued with illegal
    trade in endangered wildlife products including elephant ivory,
    rhino horns, and turtle shells worth an estimated $7 billion to
    $10 billion annually.
        Dr. Bennett and Mr. Stewart, with the prevalence of
    poaching on the African continent and its connection with
    terrorism on the continent, African nations are a key player in
    the reduction of illegal wildlife trafficking. What are the
    best cost-effective practices that can be immediately
    implemented to combat the trafficking?
        Ms. Bennett. Thank you very much. One of the first things
    is expanding what we know works on the ground across different
    areas, because we have examples across Africa where actually
    wildlife is being protected well but it needs to be taken up to
    scale. So we need to take SMART patrols and the resources and
    knowledge that we have got and take it up to scale across more
    countries across Africa would be a key first step.
        Ms. Kelly. Thank you.
        Ms. Bennett. And the links with and to persuade governments
    it is the links with security are really important. So, for
    example, in northern Cameroon, a few years ago there was a
    slaughter of about 300 elephants in Bouba Nijida National Park.
    Those were not Cameroonians. They were people coming in on
    horseback very heavily armed from countries to the north. And
    so Cameroon was really forced to act on that because it was a
    security issue and a national sovereignty issue. And so these
    are all linked up----
        Ms. Kelly. Thank you.
        Ms. Bennett [continuing]. In terms of immediate things we
    need to scale up.
        Ms. Kelly. Mr. Stewart, anything to add?
        Mr. Stewart. Yes, a couple quick things. I think the
    increase recently in the budget of INL at the State Department
    to address wildlife trafficking has been very helpful. They are
    great at addressing drugs and other issues that we have been
    more heavily engaged with over the years and they are bringing
    that expertise to fight wildlife trafficking. I think support
    for training that the Justice Department and the local
    Embassies have been doing is very helpful. I think Fish and
    Wildlife and the attaches in Africa have helped provide
    connective tissue to ensure that enforcement agencies in
    different countries coordinate better.
        And, finally, I think the DELTA Act is a great example of
    the right path to trod here. Going in there, listening to
    countries like Angola, building relationships with legislators
    and the executives there, and then explicitly in the DELTA Act
    providing for a path to marshal assistance from government,
    business, and philanthropy, for example, to help Angola on a
    large scale look at land use planning over vast tracts, I think
    that is critical now to be helpful and will pay off longer
    term. And I think that will help show Angola and other
    countries, who at least have expressed to us an interest in
    diversifying their economy, how to do it. That conservation and
    development are not inconsistent and will help foster what is
    needed on a regional basis.
        I think President Masisi in Botswana will bring renewed
    energy from the Botswana side to address these transboundary
    issues, and as Chairman Royce has pointed out there is a really
    unique opportunity in Angola right now.
        Ms. Kelly. I am going to squeeze in while he is not
    looking.
        How should, Ms. Peters, countries be framing the issue
    around socioeconomic and political conditions, because if you
    don't have opportunity then you tend to do things that you
    shouldn't do, so how can we look at other things that they can
    be doing besides this illegal trafficking?
        Ms. Peters. Well, there are some successful alternative
    livelihood programs in certain areas that have reduced
    poaching. There are also numerous examples of places where the
    conservation programs have shared the value of the national
    park or the reserve with the local communities giving them a
    stake in the success and giving them a stake in the
    conservation and those tend to make the communities work harder
    to protect the animals. But the other panelists have both made
    this point better than I do. This isn't the area that I work
    in, but it is extremely important.
        Ms. Kelly. Thank you. I yield back.
        Mr. Royce. Yes, one thing I would add in that, Robin, is
    that what we have here in Angola now is a once-in-a-lifetime
    opportunity because we have peace, we have a new government
    there, we have the opportunity to engage Angola and Namibia and
    Botswana to preserve these resources.
        So we go now to Mr. Ted Yoho of Florida.
        Mr. Yoho. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate you all
    sitting here and very informative and I appreciate the work you
    have done on the endangered species and wildlife trafficking.
    It is a scourge of humanity these people going after and
    killing thousands and tens of thousands of elephants and
    rhinoceros, and we will do anything we can to support that. And
    I commend Chairman Royce for the work he has done over the
    years.
        And it funds so many bad behaviors that work against
    civilized societies, but then you have got to, I think one of
    you brought up you have the human encroachment, you have
    development, you have the illegal trades whether it is drugs,
    human trafficking or wildlife trading. And then I was reading
    from the International Union of Conservation of Nature, made
    quite clear on the reason of the recent decline on the addax,
    playing the blame firmly on poaching by soldiers and these
    soldiers were employed to protect Chinese-owned oil
    installations in Niger.
        And we see this over and over again. You will have a
    country that comes in, they don't have the same values we do
    and they will do whatever they can for enriching their own
    country. They went on to say that the IUCN said the addax
    habitat in the surrounding region became a hot bed of drug
    smuggling, weapons trafficking, political insurgency, and
    illegal wildlife trade following the collapse of Libya, as we
    all know. Thomas Rabeil of the Saharan Conservation Fund added
    that the companies with commercial interests in the region,
    notably China national petroleum corporations, should cooperate
    with wildlife authorities to contribute to the addax
    conservation. And I think that is something as these companies
    and countries go in to develop resources there has to be some
    kind of connectivity that if you are going to do this you need
    to work to protect and preserve these.
        What are your thoughts on that? Dr. Bennett?
        Ms. Bennett. Thank you very much indeed. I couldn't agree
    more it is a problem, but it is a problem that we are
    increasingly aware of and doing our best to address. And one
    way of doing it is, for example, on INL funding is getting the
    links across the continent. So, for example, we now have
    someone working with WCS and the government in Uganda to work
    with the Chinese business community in Uganda to make them
    aware of the poaching issue and to become supportive partners.
    And if that works, it is a new program but if it works that can
    be a really nice example of engaging the Chinese community
    working in Africa.
        Mr. Yoho. Do they have, any other countries have or those
    countries over to there, do they have any policies in place
    that conservation must be a policy of development of those
    resources? Does anybody know?
        Ms. Bennett. I am not aware that countries have that as a
    policy.
        Mr. Yoho. Mr. Stewart?
        Mr. Stewart. Africa, you mean African nations having that
    as a policy?
        Mr. Yoho. Yes.
        Mr. Stewart. I think Botswana over the years has been
    particularly rigorous in scrutinizing investments by the
    Chinese, but I am not sure how formal that is.
        Mr. Yoho. Okay.
        Ms. Peters, do you have any idea?
        Ms. Peters. I am not aware of any country having a----
        Mr. Yoho. Sounds like that is something for us to do here
    then, doesn't it, that we can direct some of that. We have a
    new foreign aid bill going out that is tied into USAID that we
    can help direct some of that. And I just want to add that also
    the IUCN also said additional efforts to monitor and secure
    addax in the wild as well as broad range of other conservation
    actions include rebuilding wild populations with captive-bred,
    i.e., hunting preserves.
        And if you look at, and this is where we run into a little
    bit of a problem here in the United States, if you look out in
    Texas there is 11,000 oryx in captivity. There is over 800 dama
    gazelles and over 5,000 addax out in Texas, and they are on
    hunting preserves. And we have a problem because if people hunt
    them they can't keep the trophy. And I know that goes against
    what Chairman Royce is advocating, and I think there ought to
    be a way that we can come to an agreement that if they are
    captive raised, you can tell by DNA where they come from and we
    can select that way, that is a way of preserving these breeds
    that are being decimated and extinct around the world because
    of illegal activity.
        And it is ironic that one of the things that is going to
    preserve them is the thing that does kill them. It is the
    hunting preserves that have good conservation measures in
    there. But it says in here that the ranchers, that they can't
    keep these if they are not allowed to hunt them and if a person
    can't take the trophy back they aren't going to hunt them,
    therefore those are going to go out of business and it is going
    to put more pressure on the wild.
        So just throwing out there for consideration and I
    appreciate your time and expertise.
        Mr. Royce. Dr. Bennett, do you want to comment maybe on
    some of the complexities or tradeoffs of this and maybe what
    could be done in terms of conservation management with this
    respect? You had mentioned earlier that one of the concerns you
    had with this situation in two countries specifically where
    there was corruption that there wasn't a way forward in terms
    of proper management but that it might be possible if we
    eliminated that corruption to have an effective program that
    would actually help sustain these populations.
        Ms. Bennett. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Yes, that
    is exactly right, if it is well managed. And I mean as, and I
    will take Tanzania as an example and Tanzania has 40,000 square
    kilometers under national parks totally protected. It has
    140,000 square kilometers under game reserves which is
    maintained as wild lands by the fact that it has some economic
    money largely coming from lion hunting in that particular case.
    And so if you lose that 140,000 square kilometers you have lost
    more than half of the wild lands for wildlife within Tanzania.
        But the industry is notoriously corrupt there but if we can
    get it so that it is well managed, and that is going to take a
    huge amount of investment and it is going to take a lot of work
    by a lot of people and it is also going to take a lot of open
    mindedness because a lot of people are not comfortable with it
    as a conservation tool, but if so that could keep a lot of
    lands under wildlife that otherwise would turn into sort of soy
    plantations or something like that and we would lose a lot of
    species.
        Mr. Royce. Right.
        Ms. Bennett. But it does need to be very well regulated and
    managed and we need to be able to get a hold of the corruption.
        Mr. Royce. Thank you, Dr. Bennett.
        We go to Tom Marino of Pennsylvania.
        Mr. Marino. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you all for
    being here. I have been known to be an animal lover to the
    point of when I live out in the country of stopping my truck
    and getting a turtle out of the middle of the road to get it
    over to where it is headed and slamming the brakes on for a
    chipmunk.
        As a state and Federal prosecutor we have put people in
    prison domestically for hunting out of season, for shooting
    protected animals and birds such as eagles, and for importing
    hides and protected animals internationally as well. I like the
    idea because we put some people away based on the fact at the
    Federal level that we followed the money. And as a prosecutor,
    as a U.S. attorney I did that consistently in drug cases.
    Follow the money. You may not be able to get the person with
    the drugs but you can follow the money and put them away from
    that perspective.
        I am constantly watching the programs on the History
    Channel and Discovery about what we are doing to worldwide
    animals and how we are losing them. I have been known to get in
    a couple of fights with people who I see beating an animal or a
    dog or a cat or something to that nature. That is how obsessed
    I am with this, because who is going to protect animals if we
    don't? And often these individuals are called animals that do
    this, but that is an insult to the animal kingdom, calling
    somebody an animal that would hurt an animal other than
    legitimate hunting.
        But what do we do with individuals in other countries who
    it just, they don't think twice about killing these animals?
    What do we do about people who do this on a basis to survive or
    feed their families and what do we do with those individuals
    that are running a business as far as putting them away for a
    very long time when we find them?
        Any response to any of that?
        I will start with Ms. Peters.
        Ms. Peters. Sir, it is an excellent question. I would like
    to make a point that we have done analyses of ivory and rhino
    horn supply chains in a number of sub-Saharan African countries
    including South Africa, Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda to some extent,
    and Gabon. And each of those places, of course there are some
    people who will hunt for sustenance, but it is a very, very
    small impact on the environment compared to the poaching, what
    is going on because of poaching.
        Most poachers, the guy that actually pulls the trigger on
    the .458 or the 12 caliber doesn't even have the money to buy
    the bullet. Those are bullets that sell for $20 to $30 a pop.
    He doesn't have the money to fill the tank that went in the
    vehicle that drove him into the forest. All of that has to be
    financed. We have been working with the agencies that we have
    been supporting to follow the money around wildlife trafficking
    and get it up to the point where the poaching gets financed and
    to try to cut that funding. It is incredibly important.
        We have also worked with the human trafficking NGO, Liberty
    Asia, out of Hong Kong, to develop a system that provides
    typologies about wildlife trafficking networks and human
    trafficking networks to banks around the world. So my colleague
    Kathleen, here, is briefing a number of correspondent banks
    tomorrow about a major wildlife trafficking network in
    Tanzania. We have briefed banks around the world and they are
    starting to shut down the activity as they see it, in part
    because they recognize that these traffickers are also moving
    drugs and guns and things that they need to worry about from a
    legal perspective.
        Mr. Marino. All right, thank you.
        Mr. Stewart and Dr. Bennett, unfortunately between the two
    of you, you have 30 seconds.
        Mr. Stewart. I agree with Ms. Peters in terms of going at
    this at the international level, but I think it is also
    important to note--corruption is a big problem. But in some
    instances local prosecutors, local judges don't have the
    resources to do the basics of how you secure a crime scene, how
    you prosecute a case, so efforts to train them in that is
    important.
        There has also been a lot of success for specialized
    discipline enforcement units. I think particularly the National
    and Transnational Serious Crimes Investigation Unit in
    Tanzania, they work with specialized prosecutors, work with
    specialized judges and have had particular success in getting
    through prosecutions, reaching to the farther out edges of
    syndicates, even in an environment as Dr. Bennett indicated has
    corruption challenges. So I think that is a model that can be
    useful in any of these challenging circumstances.
        Mr. Marino. Thank you. My time is expired. Thank you.
        Mr. Royce. All right, let me thank, Ms. Peters, let me
    thank you, Mr. Stewart, Dr. Bennett, all of you for your good
    work on this issue and your testimony here today. And we are
    going to be in touch with all three of you as we try to address
    some of the issues that you raised here today. So for now in
    terms of this hearing, the hearing stands adjourned.
        [Hearing adjourned.]MARKUP OF H.R. 4819, DELTA
    ACT deg.
        Chairman Royce. We now meet pursuant to notice to markup
    H.R. 2819, the DELTA Act.
        Without objection, the Royce Amendment 119 in the nature of
    a substitute, which was provided to all of you last week, will
    be our base text, and is considered read, and open for
    amendment at any point on H.R. 4819, the DELTA Act.
        [The information referred to follows:]

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        Chairman Royce. All members may have 5 calendar days to
    submit statements or extraneous material for the record.
        And I am now going to recognize myself to speak on this
    bill.
        As we have heard today, greater transparency cooperation is
    essential to advancing conservation and smart development in
    the Okavango River Basin. To that end, today we will consider
    H.R. 4819, the Defending Economic Livelihoods and Threatened
    Animals or DELTA Act.
        Let me give you the three points in terms of what this
    legislation will do. It will strengthen and streamline
    coordination among the Governments of the United States,
    Angola, Botswana, and Namibia, as well as non-governmental
    organizations in the private sector to protect the basin there.
        Second, it is going to prioritize wildlife trafficking and
    anti-poaching programs in the greater region to help save
    elephants and other endangered species.
        And lastly, it will promote sound economic growth for local
    communities through responsible natural resource management.
        So I want to thank the International Conservation Caucus
    co-chair, Representative Jeff Fortenberry, and this committee's
    ranking member, Mr. Engel, for partnering with me on this
    measure.
        And I now recognize the ranking member, Mr. Engel, for his
    remarks.
        Mr. Engel. Mr. Chairman, thank you for holding this markup
    of H.R. 4819, the DELTA Act. I would like to also begin by
    thanking Mr. Fortenberry of Nebraska, a former member of this
    committee, for his initiative in putting forward this
    legislation.
        And as I mentioned before, I would like to commend you, Mr.
    Chairman, for your extraordinary leadership on international
    conservation issues and particularly the fight against wildlife
    trafficking for many, many years. Thank you for what you have
    done.
        The Okavango River Basin in Angola, Botswana, and Namibia
    supports an amazing array of wildlife, including the largest
    remaining concentration of elephants in Africa. It is also home
    to more than 1 million people. This important legislation
    requires the development of a strategy to encourage the
    sustainable management of natural resources in the river basin,
    including the protection of wildlife. This strategy will
    require input from a wide range of stakeholders, including
    national governments, local communities, non-governmental
    organizations, and the private sector.
        The goal here is to support economic development for the
    residents of the region, while preserving unique ecosystems and
    protecting wildlife.
        I would also like to highlight that the DELTA Act has the
    support of key wildlife associations, including the Wildlife
    Conservation Society based on my hometown of Bronx, New York
    and we did hear Dr. Bennett, who is from the Wildlife
    Conservation Society.
        Mr. Chairman, I am proud to be an original co-sponsor of
    this important legislation and I urge all of our colleagues to
    support it.
        I yield back.
        Chairman Royce. Do any other members seek recognition to
    speak on this measure? Mr. Smith.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        Over the decades it has become apparent that conservation
    efforts must be transboundary and engage entire regions to
    advance sustainable solutions. Endangered and threatened
    species, natural landscapes, and poaching networks do not know
    national boundaries. This requires governments and conservation
    partners to share real-time information, move freely across
    transnational boundaries, and coordinate park protection
    responsibilities.
        These complex arrangements must be outlined in
    intergovernmental agreements to equitably share resource
    protection and benefits. As with our national parks, regional
    cooperation can better facilitate economic development through
    developing infrastructure and a tourism economy.
        Therefore, I strongly commend Jeff Fortenberry for offering
    H.R. 4819, the DELTA Act, and you, Mr. Chairman, for bringing
    it and the ranking member before the committee today, which
    would encourage this kind of transboundary coordination between
    Angola, Botswana, and Namibia, and the greater Okavango River
    Basin.
        I yield back the balance.
        Chairman Royce. Any other members seeking time? If not--
    yes, Mr. Wilson.
        Mr. Wilson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Royce. Joe Wilson of South Carolina.
        Mr. Wilson. And thank you, Mr. Chairman. And you definitely
    want to recognize me because I want to begin by thanking you
    and Ranking Member Eliot Engel's work with Congressman Jeff
    Fortenberry for providing the Defending Economic Livelihoods
    and Threatened Animals Act, also known as the DELTA Act, before
    the committee.
        The Okavango is the fourth largest river system in southern
    Africa and has no outlet to the sea. Instead, the water empties
    into a land that flourishes with wildlife. The same river
    supports over 1 million people, potentially creating a long-
    term tug of war for the resources of the delta.
        Water resource management has become an increasing concern
    in the region, such as in Cape Town, South Africa where the
    infamous Zero Day or the day when the taps run dry, was
    projected to strike earlier this month but has been delayed
    until next year. This Act promotes technical assistance through
    sound water management that is both safe for the environment
    and wildlife but also aligns with a developing human
    population.
        In the long run, this modest level of coordination helps
    ensure that countries interconnected by the Okavango River
    Basin will continue to remain stable in democracies. The DELTA
    Act encourages transborder cooperation among Botswana, Angola,
    Namibia, and others in order to develop law enforcement and
    park ranger capabilities, which will deter criminals and
    terrorist organizations from poaching and smuggling.
        Being a national park ranger is not a safe occupation. On
    May the 11th, a 25-year-old park ranger in the Democratic
    Republic of Congo named Rachel Masika Baraka was killed while
    protecting tourists from abduction. She was the eighth park
    ranger killed this year. Though this park is much further north
    of Botswana, continued cooperation can help ensure that the
    Okavango remains peaceful.
        This bill acknowledges the opportunity and value provided
    by coordinating the private sector donors and non-governmental
    organizations with governmental institutions in advancing
    conservation efforts through public-private partnerships.
        I am pleased to support and co-sponsor H.R. 4819, the DELTA
    Act and I urge its passage.
        And I yield back my time.
        Chairman Royce. Thank you.
        Any other members seeking time? Hearing no--or anyone
    seeking amendment?
        Hearing no amendments, the chair now moves that the
    committee agree to H.R. 4819, as amended.
        All those in favor, say aye.
        All those opposed, no.
        In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. The measure
    is agreed to.
        Without objection, 4819 is ordered favorably reported in
    the form of a single amendment in the nature of a substitute.
        Staff is directed to make any technical and conforming
    changes and the chair is authorized to seek House consideration
    under suspension of the rules.
        So let me end by thanking all the members for their
    participation today. This markup is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 11:48 a.m., the committee was adjourned.]

                                A P P E N D I X

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             Material Submitted for the Record

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