    [House Hearing, 115 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                    MENTORING, TRAINING, AND APPRENTICESHIPS
                         FOR STEM EDUCATION AND CAREERS

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                    SUBCOMMITTEE ON RESEARCH AND TECHNOLOGY

                  COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                         ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                               FEBRUARY 15, 2018

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 115-48

                                   __________

     Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

           Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov

                                _________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

     29-935 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2018

                  COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY

                       HON. LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas, Chair
    FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma             EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
    DANA ROHRABACHER, California         ZOE LOFGREN, California
    MO BROOKS, Alabama                   DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois
    RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois             SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
    BILL POSEY, Florida                  AMI BERA, California
    THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              ELIZABETH H. ESTY, Connecticut
    JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma            MARC A. VEASEY, Texas
    RANDY K. WEBER, Texas                DONALD S. BEYER, JR., Virginia
    STEPHEN KNIGHT, California           JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
    BRIAN BABIN, Texas                   JERRY McNERNEY, California
    BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia           ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado
    BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia            PAUL TONKO, New York
    RALPH LEE ABRAHAM, Louisiana         BILL FOSTER, Illinois
    DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida              MARK TAKANO, California
    JIM BANKS, Indiana                   COLLEEN HANABUSA, Hawaii
    ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                  CHARLIE CRIST, Florida
    ROGER W. MARSHALL, Kansas
    NEAL P. DUNN, Florida
    CLAY HIGGINS, Louisiana
    RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina
                                     ------

                    Subcommittee on Research and Technology

                     HON. BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia, Chair
    FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma             DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois
    RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois             ELIZABETH H. ESTY, Connecticut
    STEPHEN KNIGHT, California           JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
    RALPH LEE ABRAHAM, Louisiana         SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
    DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida              AMI BERA, California
    JIM BANKS, Indiana                   DONALD S. BEYER, JR., Virginia
    ROGER W. MARSHALL, Kansas            EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
    LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas

                                C O N T E N T S

                               February 15, 2018

                                                                       Page
    Witness List.....................................................     2

    Hearing Charter..................................................     3

                               Opening Statements

    Statement by Representative Lamar S. Smith, Chairman, Committee
      on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of
      Representatives................................................     4
        Written Statement............................................     6

    Statement by Representative Barbara Comstock, Chairwoman,
      Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science,
      Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........     9
        Written Statement............................................    11

    Statement by Representative Daniel Lipinski, Ranking Member,
      Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science,
      Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........    13
        Written Statement............................................    15

    Statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, Ranking
      Member, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House
      of Representatives
        Written Statement............................................    17

                                   Witnesses:

    Dr. Victor R. McCrary, Vice President, Research and Economic
      Development and Professor of Chemistry, Morgan State
      University; Member, National Science Board and Chair, Task
      Force on the Skilled Technical Workforce
        Oral Statement...............................................    19
        Written Statement............................................    21

    Dr. John Sands, Department Chair, Computer Integrated
      Technologies, Moraine Valley Community College; Director and
      Principal Investigator, Center for Systems Security and
      Information Assurance
        Oral Statement...............................................    41
        Written Statement............................................    43

    Mr. Montez King, Executive Director, National Institute of
      Metalworking Skills
        Oral Statement...............................................    50
        Written Statement............................................    52

    Dr. John Bardo, President, Wichita State University
        Oral Statement...............................................    56
        Written Statement............................................    58

    Discussion.......................................................    69

                 Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions

    Dr. Victor R. McCrary, Vice President, Research and Economic
      Development and Professor of Chemistry, Morgan State
      University; Member, National Science Board and Chair, Task
      Force on the Skilled Technical Workforce.......................    88

    Dr. John Sands, Department Chair, Computer Integrated
      Technologies, Moraine Valley Community College; Director and
      Principal Investigator, Center for Systems Security and
      Information Assurance..........................................    99

    Mr. Montez King, Executive Director, National Institute of
      Metalworking Skills............................................   105

    Dr. John Bardo, President, Wichita State University..............   110

                    MENTORING, TRAINING, AND APPRENTICESHIPS

                         FOR STEM EDUCATION AND CAREERS

                                  ----------

                          THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2018

                      House of Representatives,
                Subcommittee on Research and Technology
                   Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
                                                       Washington, D.C.

        The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 9:11 a.m., in
    Room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Barbara
    Comstock [Chairwoman of the Subcommittee] presiding.

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        Chairman Smith. [Presiding] The Subcommittee on Research
    and Technology will come to order. Without objection, the Chair
    is authorized to declare recesses of the committee at any time.
        Good morning to everyone here, and welcome to today's
    hearing entitled, ``Mentoring, Training, and Apprenticeships
    for STEM Education and Careers.''
        Before I recognize myself for my opening statement, let me
    explain to all present that our Chairwoman, Barbara Comstock,
    is stuck in traffic and I don't think is even across the bridge
    yet, so we're going to go on and start. We have other
    individuals caught up in traffic as well. All that is probably
    compounded by the fact that we're starting an hour earlier than
    normal because this is a day where a lot of Members are leaving
    town in a few hours.
        I still think it's important for us to get started, and as
    soon as Barbara Comstock, the Chairwoman, arrives, she'll have
    an opening statement. As soon as Mr. Lipinski arrives, he'll
    have a statement as the Ranking Member. And I'm going to go on
    and give my opening statement just so we can get started and
    introduce you all, but at various points we might be
    interrupted as individuals arrive and have opening statements.
        This hearing continues the Science Committee's work on
    STEM. The STEM Education Act of 2015 updated the definition of
    STEM to include computer science. And the 2017 American
    Innovation and Competitiveness Act strengthened external
    stakeholders' roles in setting STEM priorities.
        Most recently, the Committee and the full House approved
    several bipartisan bills aimed at boosting students' interest
    in STEM subjects and opportunities for our military veterans
    and for women and underrepresented minorities, starting in
    kindergarten.
        Apprenticeships, mentoring, and on-the-job training are
    proven ways to meet workforce needs. I look forward to hearing
    from our witnesses about the potential for using these
    workforce development methods to boost STEM education and
    careers.
        According to the National Science Board's most recent
    Science and Engineering Indicators report, the number of U.S.
    jobs that require science, technology, engineering, math, and
    computer skills has grown nearly 34 percent in the past decade.
    STEM workforce demand is forecast to increase steadily for
    years to come. Filling our STEM workforce needs, from
    certificate-level technical occupations to Ph.D.'s, is
    essential for our economic competitiveness.
        STEM jobs are growing in every sector of our economy, from
    the shop floors in advanced manufacturing, to computer
    programming for our huge service industry sector, to
    cybersecurity for every public and private computer network.
    According to a recent report from Brookings, half of all STEM
    jobs are available to workers without a four-year college
    degree, and these jobs pay a wage ten percent higher than jobs
    with similar educational requirements. Filling the workforce
    pipeline with qualified STEM workers at every level is crucial
    for our future economic prosperity.
        The innovative workforce training programs in which our
    witnesses are involved can provide new opportunities for STEM
    education and training and encourage young people to pursue
    STEM-based careers. Successful workforce development programs
    extend beyond the four walls of classrooms and laboratories.
    Partnerships between industry and academia can create new ways
    for young people to pursue STEM careers and boost formal
    education and training with on-the-job work experiences.
        [The prepared statement of Chairman Smith follows:]

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        Chairman Smith. That concludes my opening statements, and
    I'm going to check to see what we want to do on the minority
    side. You want to just wait for Lipinski or do you want to----
        Ms. Bonamici. Mr. Chairman, if we could please wait for Mr.
    Lipinski----
        Chairman Smith. Okay.
        Ms. Bonamici. --to deliver the opening statement when he
    arrives.
        Chairman Smith. Okay.
        Ms. Bonamici. Thank you.
        Chairman Smith. We'll----
        Ms. Bonamici. I yield back.
        Chairman Smith. --wait for the gentleman from Illinois to
    arrive, but I'd like to go on and introduce our witnesses so
    we'll be ready to start.
        Our first witness today is Dr. Victor McCrary, Vice
    President of Research and Economic Development and Professor of
    Chemistry at Morgan State University. In this role, Dr. McCrary
    and his team focus on developing a university-wide research
    ecosystem, increasing external support for the faculty
    research, and championing an entrepreneurial culture among
    faculty and students. Dr. McCrary is also a member of the
    National Science Board and Chair of the Task Force on the
    Skilled Technical Workforce. With the NSB, Dr. McCrary recently
    proposed the blue-collar STEM initiative to explore the
    technical skills required by the Nations' workforce which do
    not necessitate pursuing a traditional four-year college
    degree.
        Dr. McCrary earned a Bachelor of Arts in chemistry from the
    Catholic University of America and a Master of Science and
    executive master's of engineering from the University of
    Pennsylvania. He also earned a Ph.D. in physical chemistry from
    Howard University.
        Dr. Sands is our second witness, and he is the Department
    Chair of Computer Integrated Technologies at Moraine Valley
    Community College. Dr. Sands also serves as the Director and
    Principal Investigator for the Center for Systems Security and
    Information Assurance, where he and his team study the
    technology workforce needs both nationally and in the local
    Chicago metropolitan region in Ranking Member Lipinski's
    district.
        Dr. Sands earned a Bachelor of Arts in communications from
    Chicago State University and a master of arts in human
    performance and testing from Governor State University. He also
    earned his Ph.D. in education from Colorado State University.
        Our third witness today is Mr. Montez King, Executive
    Director of the National Institute of Metalworking Skills
    (NIMS), developing national standards and competency-based
    credentials in manufacturing trades. In this role, Mr. King is
    responsible for overseeing the administration, programs, and
    strategic plan of the organization.
        Prior to joining NIMS, Mr. King served as Training and
    Technology Manager for Magna International, one of the world's
    largest OEM automotive parts manufacturers. In October 2017, he
    was appointed to the President's Task Force on Apprenticeship
    Expansion. Mr. King began his career at Teledyne Energy Systems
    as a Machinist Apprentice and spent over 25 years advancing
    into management positions. He holds a Maryland State machinist
    journeyman's certificate, a Bachelor of Science in information
    technology, and a Master of Education degree in adult education
    from the University of Phoenix.
        Our final witness today is Dr. John Bardo, President of
    Wichita State University. Wichita State's Innovation Campus and
    applied learning initiatives have drawn positive national
    attention because the partnerships forged with local and
    international companies including Airbus, Dassault Systemes,
    and Koch Industries. The university has a long history of
    working with industry through its National Institute of
    Aviation Research and National Center for Aviation Training.
    Dr. Bardo's academic interests involve the relationships
    between higher education, the economy, and quality of life.
        He received a bachelor's degree in economics from the
    University of Cincinnati and a master's degree in sociology
    from Ohio University. He also earned a Ph.D. in sociology from
    Ohio State University and attended the Institute for
    Educational Management at Harvard.
        And we welcome you all, appreciate your expertise. And as I
    mentioned when I introduced myself to you a few minutes ago,
    it's nice to have a hearing on such an interesting subject,
    that's a very positive subject, that's a bipartisan subject,
    and that's important to the future of America.
        I'm going to hold off for a second and get a read for how
    far away Chairwoman Comstock is before we proceed.
        Ms. Bonamici. Mr. Lipinski's in Rayburn, so he's almost
    here.
        Chairman Smith. Okay. We're getting close. Since we're
    already off to a pretty good start, I think we're just going to
    recess for about five minutes and wait for the Chairwoman and
    the Ranking Member to arrive. They'll each have an opening
    statement, and then we'll go straight to your testimony. So we
    stand in recess for about five minutes.
        [Recess.]
        Chairwoman Comstock [presiding]. Good morning, and my
    apologies. There was an accident on G.W. Parkway--I have the
    benefit of being close by, but sometimes also there are some
    disadvantages.
        So this morning's hearing will explore how participation in
    mentoring, training, and apprenticeship opportunities impact
    STEM students and may assist in addressing the growing need for
    a diverse and technically trained STEM workforce. The purpose
    of this hearing is to identify what STEM workforce development
    programs should be further examined and what statistics are
    needed to increase our understanding of these tools, the
    contexts in which they are most effective, and the barriers to
    their application and expansion.
        About 20 percent of all jobs in the U.S. economy require
    some level of STEM training, and that will grow. Those
    occupations are projected to grow about nine percent over the
    next decade, faster than any other employment category. In
    order to meet this demand, Congress needs to make informed
    decisions on what are the most impactful and innovative tools
    to address the STEM skills gap and build up America's skilled
    technical workforce.
        A majority of these technical STEM jobs do not require a
    bachelor's degree. In many cases, these good positions, such as
    computer programmers, information technology support, and
    nurses, require two-year degrees, occupational licenses, or
    certifications. Technical STEM jobs are often among the best-
    paying and most stable jobs available to individuals with sub-
    baccalaureate education. By supporting innovative workforce
    development programs for STEM careers like those our witnesses
    are part of, we not only increase the students' economic
    opportunities and security, but also our nation's.
        To ensure the United States' competitiveness in the global
    economy, we must leverage this hard work and ingenuity of women
    and men of all ages, education levels, and backgrounds to grow
    America's technical workforce.
        I look forward to building on the progress this Committee
    has already made through the INSPIRE Women Act, which was
    signed into law by the President last year, and the recently
    House-passed Building Blocks of STEM, to encourage and grow the
    number of young women and under-represented minorities in STEM
    fields also. Reaching these groups at a young age and
    motivating them to stay in the STEM fields is extremely
    important, but we must also ensure we support programs aimed at
    keeping women and under-represented minorities in the STEM
    pipeline and advancing in STEM careers.
        There are recognized models from across the country and the
    world that demonstrate how apprenticeships, mentoring, and on-
    the-job training are tools used by many different industries to
    address skills gaps. One thing is clear: The most successful
    programs are an integration of academia, technical training,
    and hands-on work experience.
        I know as I go throughout my district and I meet with
    employers who need employees, they really want to be able to
    bring them in and train them to their workplace, and so I think
    what we're talking about here today really fits that needs gap.
    So I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about the
    programs they lead and how they are working with industry to
    meet the diverse and growing needs for a STEM capable
    workforce. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Comstock follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairwoman Comstock. And I now recognize the Ranking
    Member, Mr. Lipinski, for his opening statement.
        Mr. Lipinski. Thank you, Chairwoman Comstock. I don't know
    if you know, but I was racing you to get in. You passed me on
    G.W. Parkway, and I saw you again on the 14th Street Bridge,
    but somehow you made it in here before me so I apologize for
    being late. We were both stuck in the same traffic jam on the
    parkway. So I want to thank Chairman Smith for holding fort
    here and Ms. Bonamici also.
        The National Science Board recently released its biannual
    Science and Engineering Indicators report. My biggest takeaway
    from the report is that we're falling behind. China has learned
    from our economic success, which we've achieved in large part
    through investments in science and innovation. China and others
    are aggressively investing in research and development and in
    their own STEM workforces. Meanwhile, we're tapping the brakes.
        This is not the time to be complacent about our standing as
    a global economic leader. Other countries are nipping at our
    heels, and we must take meaningful action before it is too
    late. While creating financial incentives and lowering costs
    for businesses may help provide a boost, fiscal policy alone
    will not keep our economy strong. To ensure our long-term
    economic health, we must continue to actively invest federal
    dollars in the long-term foundation on which our economy is
    built: research and development and human capital.
        In today's increasingly technological and data-driven
    economy, a strong STEM workforce is critical for growth and
    global competitiveness. When workers are equipped with the
    technical skills that industry needs, companies are able to
    innovate, increase production, expand, and create new jobs.
    This virtuous cycle is interrupted when employers cannot find
    workers with the skills they need. This is where we find
    ourselves today.
        The so-called STEM skills gap is not new. While we can
    debate the precise cause and scope of the gap, its effects are
    undeniable. The demand for STEM skills is growing and rapidly
    evolving as employers continually update their business models
    to stay ahead of the competition. And our education system has
    generally been slow to respond and adapt to the changing
    economy. As a result, businesses have struggled to find
    qualified workers. The skills gap is worse in some industry
    sectors than others but in many cases, it is dragging down
    productivity.
        There are good examples of innovative approaches to career-
    focused STEM education around the country such as the NSF-
    funded Advanced Technological Education program at Moraine
    Valley Community College in my district, run by one of today's
    witnesses, Dr. Sands.
        I'm also encouraged by companies such as Accenture and IBM.
    They are piloting an old model of workforce development: the
    apprenticeship, in new fields like cybersecurity and customer
    service. But we'll need far more innovative programs like these
    to meet growing demand.
        The issue of STEM workforce development is a particularly
    important one to me. Chicago is unique among major U.S. cities
    and the degree to which the economy strong in both service and
    manufacturing jobs. These sectors are increasingly driven by
    technology, automation, and data analytics, so the demand for
    STEM skills is high.
        I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today their
    thoughts on mentoring, apprenticeships, and other innovative
    strategies for workforce development and whether they should be
    more widely adopted in new industry sectors and geographic
    regions. As Ranking Member of this Committee--Subcommittee I'm
    particularly interested in hearing ideas on the role federal
    science agencies can play in increasing coordination between
    industry and educational institutions.
        We need to close the STEM skills gap in the near term, but
    I think it is just as important to create an agile STEM
    workforce that can respond to changing needs over the long
    term. Our future depends on it.
        Thank you, and I yield back the balance of my time.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Lipinski follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    [The prepared statement of Ranking Member Eddie Bernice
    Johnson:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you. And I now recognize Dr.
    McCrary for five minutes to present his testimony.

          TESTIMONY OF DR. VICTOR R. McCRARY, VICE PRESIDENT,

                   RESEARCH AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

                      AND PROFESSOR OF CHEMISTRY,

                        MORGAN STATE UNIVERSITY;

               MEMBER, NATIONAL SCIENCE BOARD AND CHAIR,

             TASK FORCE ON THE SKILLED TECHNICAL WORKFORCE

        Dr. McCrary. Thank you, Chairwoman Comstock and Ranking
    Member Lipinski. On behalf of my colleagues on the National
    Science Board, I'm grateful for this opportunity.
        The number of U.S. jobs requiring substantial STEM
    expertise has grown nearly 34 percent over the past decade. As
    of 2015, nearly one in seven workers with at least a four-year
    degree say their job requires a bachelor's level of STEM
    expertise. However, more than 16 million more jobs do not
    require a bachelor's degree yet require significant experience
    in at least one--and expertise in one technical field.
    Moreover, these jobs are growing in number.
        At the same time, other countries are challenging our
    leadership in science and technology. Between 2000 and 2014,
    the number of Americans with four-year STEM degrees rose 53
    percent. In China this number was 360 percent. Just last week,
    the National Science Board released a statement predicting that
    China would surpass the United States in R&D investment this
    year.
        China's targeting up to 15 percent of their GDP at talent
    development, and China is not the only country that is chasing
    us. If we want to remain a world leader, we must leverage the
    hard work, creativity, and ingenuity of women and men of all
    ages, educational levels, and backgrounds. We need scientists
    searching for cures for genetic disorders, engineers securing
    our electrical grid, skilled technicians in our hospitals and
    labs, and farmers growing more with fewer resources. We can't
    do this by relying on a relatively small and distinct STEM
    workforce. Instead, government, business leaders, and educators
    must work together to build a STEM-capable U.S. workforce.
        That workforce goes beyond traditional scientists and
    engineers to include the often-overlooked skilled technical
    workers who helped form the backbone of our economy. Skilled
    technical jobs are well-paying and are found across the United
    States. Businesses large and small need adaptable STEM-capable
    workers at every educational level and from all demographic
    groups in order to compete. But according to a survey conducted
    by the GAO, employers in 80 percent of local area said they had
    trouble filling jobs in skilled technical occupations.
        Because we both see a need and an opportunity, the board
    has created in November of 2017 a Task Force on the Skilled
    Technical Workforce. I've submitted the task force charge along
    with my written testimony. We're exploring ways the NSB and NSF
    can help strengthen this segment of the workforce, including by
    identifying gaps in information and data, exploring ways to
    build and leverage partnerships, and examining evidence-
    informed approaches to removing the barriers that far too many
    students and workers encounter.
        Although it is still early in the work of the board's task
    force, I will use the remainder of my time to highlight several
    points that have already become clear to us. What we have here
    is a failure to, or, more specifically, to coordinate between
    businesses desperate for STEM-capable skilled U.S. workers and
    students and incumbent workers seeking well-paying, stable
    jobs. Too often, the students we produce or the training we
    provide to workers doesn't seem to align with what industry
    wants.
        At the same time, industry hiring practice says can
    themselves be a barrier, for example, requiring a four-year
    degree for openings where a certification or two-year degree
    might be a better fit.
        During a recent listening session at Baton Rouge Community
    College in Louisiana, board members sat at a table in which
    industry participants lamented their inability to find workers
    with specific skills and a community college student sitting
    right there at the table saying, ``Hey, that's me.''
        We also see that there's a stigma associated with community
    colleges, technical schools, and vocational training in the
    minds of students, parents, employers, and yes, academics. We
    need to change that perception and fix our own blind spots and
    baggage to recognize how critical these workers are to the
    success of our nation's science and engineering enterprise.
        To give you an example, last year the NSB visited LIGO in
    Louisiana. We heard of the LIGO scientist who won the Nobel
    Prize in physics for the discovery of gravitational waves, but
    what you might not know about LIGO is that it's an industrial
    facility, miles of carefully welded high vacuum pipeline and
    banks for air filters as tall as a house. It's skilled
    technical workers, HVAC experts, electricians, and other
    workers without a four-year degree who built that, keep it
    running, and they are fundamental to the scientific discoveries
    that are made. This is blue-collar STEM.
        Next, we must better leverage our public investments. At
    NSF, programs like INCLUDES and Advanced Technological
    Education or ATE do this by facilitating partnerships between
    educational institutions and local businesses or between
    research-intensive universities like the University of
    Tennessee and local community colleges. We learn what works so
    others can take these practices to scale.
        We have--all have a role to play in this. Technical
    schools, community colleges, trade labor organizations,
    chambers of commerce, industry, four-year colleges, research
    universities, and HBCUs like Morgan State University and other
    minority-serving institutions need it to create onramps into
    STEM for all segments of our population. We cannot compete
    without their inclusion and wholehearted participation.
        I'm glad you're having this hearing, and I'm looking
    forward to learning from the rest of the witnesses.
        Madam Chair, this concludes my testimony.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. McCrary follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you. And I now recognize Dr.
    Sands, and I understand you have a video, so I look forward to
    that.

             TESTIMONY OF DR. JOHN SANDS, DEPARTMENT CHAIR,

                   COMPUTER INTEGRATED TECHNOLOGIES,

                   MORAINE VALLEY COMMUNITY COLLEGE;

                  DIRECTOR AND PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATOR,

                    CENTER FOR SYSTEMS SECURITY AND

                         INFORMATION ASSURANCE

        Dr. Sands. Yes, good morning, Chairwoman Comstock and
    Ranking Member Lipinski. I'd like to start with a short video
    that talks a little bit about our programs and highlights one
    of our students.
        [Video shown.]
        Dr. Sands. I'm here today to share my knowledge and opinion
    on how apprenticeship programs can address the growing gap in
    the country's technical workforce. I'd like to present a few
    potential approaches to increase the quality and participation
    rate of apprenticeship programs in technological areas like
    cybersecurity.
        Over my career, one of the areas of the workforce
    development I've been most involved in is the study and
    implementation of effective programs to increase student
    awareness of critical technology fields. Both as a Professor
    and Principal Investigator, I have led teams to develop new and
    innovative career awareness programs. These programs present
    students with self-directed opportunities to explore
    interesting technical jobs. The exploration also requires
    students to examine the typical roles and responsibilities
    associated with each position. These programs also enable
    students to review salaries, job credentials, and potential
    career pathways.
        Another area is expanding partnerships and apprenticeship
    programs. Moraine Valley Committee College has been successful
    in building partnerships in which local businesses benefit from
    a continuous pool of qualified applicants. Students benefit by
    gaining experience and learn workforce skills that are
    difficult to replicate in the classroom.
        One example of the successful program would be the
    partnership between Moraine Valley Community College and ESPO
    Systems. In the fall of 2017 ESPO Systems was nominated for the
    Illinois Community College Trustee Association Business and
    Industry Partnership Award. Representatives from both ESPO
    Systems and Moraine Valley focused on building apprenticeship
    programs that provide students with a meaningful and relevant
    workforce experience. This program also serves dozens of
    students, most of which go on to full-time employment. ESPO
    Systems and Moraine Valley staff meet each semester to plan,
    review, and evaluate the program.
        One of the other areas that I think is important is
    establishing apprenticeship program standards. As a rash of
    data breaches continue to make headlines, businesses have
    gained greater interest in working with academia and federal
    agencies in adopting national standards. The NSA/DHS Centers
    for Academic Excellence program is a good example. This program
    establishes curriculum requirements, student learning
    assessment, and a series of institutional requirements. This
    program serves as a great mechanism to expand apprenticeship
    programs for the cybersecurity industry.
        Another area is establishing national credentials earned by
    completing an apprenticeship program. I believe there is strong
    support for establishing a national credential that would be
    directly linked to students' successful completion of a
    recognized apprenticeship program. The cybersecurity industry
    is well-organized to adopt this type of program that could be
    directly associated with one of the two national programs that
    are operated by federal agencies, and those two programs would
    be the CyberCorps Scholarship for Service program, which is
    funded through the National Science Foundation; and the other
    would be the Centers of Academic Excellence in Cyber Defense,
    which is funded by the National Security Agency and Department
    of Homeland Security.
        I also want to stress the importance of community colleges.
    I would like to highlight the unique role community colleges
    can contribute to establishing a better national network of
    apprenticeship programs. Community colleges, as the name
    indicate, belong to and serve their communities. Students
    attending community college programs are looking for
    inexpensive and efficient pathways to new careers and academic
    opportunities.
        Community colleges provide their communities with the
    nurses, healthcare workers, heating and air-conditioning
    technicians, automotive technicians, information technology
    specialists, just to name a few. Community colleges have a
    close relationship with the current technology programs at
    their local high schools and can provide students with an early
    awareness of career opportunities in technical fields. Any
    expansion of apprenticeship opportunities should leverage
    community colleges in their unique position within communities
    across the Nation.
        That concludes my testimony. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Sands follows:]

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        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you. And I now recognize Mr.
    King for his testimony.

                     TESTIMONY OF MR. MONTEZ KING,

                          EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,

               NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF METALWORKING SKILLS

        Mr. King. Thank you, Chairwoman Comstock and fellow
    members, for inviting me to speak out about innovative work
    training programs.
        I want to start out with some statistics. I don't want to
    create an echo chamber because of my panelists here, but I need
    to say that the stakes are high. And I would like to start with
    about 3.5 million jobs are likely to be needed within the next
    decade. And with the skills gap, there's likely to be about 2
    million of those jobs unfilled. And another really interesting
    statistic is only 16 percent of all American high school
    seniors are either proficient in mathematics or are interested
    in STEM careers. That's significant. So when we talk about
    building training programs, you can have the best program in
    the world but if you don't have any bodies in there, it doesn't
    matter. So you have to increase the interest.
        So how do we do that? I'm going to move to my next slide.
    This leads into my next slide.
        [Slide.]
        Mr. King. And just bear with me because everyone has their
    own way of recruiting, and I recruit people all the time. I'm
    always looking for someone to enter into the skilled workforce.
    So the Walking Dead syndrome is the truth in reality. It is--
    now, think about--this is a popular series that's on TV. And
    the series framework is based on an overwhelmingly large
    population of zombies searching for a small majority of flesh
    for the survivors. This is a small amount of survivors and you
    have all of these zombies, millions, millions with maybe 1,000
    survivors. And they're all looking for the same thing. And this
    is a striking parallel to our college campuses. It extremely--
    it really is.
        Now, think about all of those individuals on the college
    campuses going for jobs--they're trying--they're planning for
    jobs that either won't exist when they come out of school or
    rapidly evolving or it's not within that skill frame where most
    of the jobs will--we've heard statistics where you show that
    most of the jobs will be for--won't require a four-year degree,
    but most of our students or our kids are going for four-year
    degrees. So it's extremely important to speak the reality and
    truth to our young people so that they know the truth. And it
    really works when we talk to these young people about the
    Walking Dead syndrome.
        So how do we train? And you got to--we've got a look at
    today's economy where the jobs are more integrated, cross-
    discipline, technology-driven so when we build these STEM
    education training programs, I believe we need to focus on the
    work-and-learn opportunities, more work-and-learn
    opportunities. We also need to focus on creating an education
    pathway that supports students from middle school through their
    career advancement.
        And this leads into my next slide.
        [Slide.]
        Mr. King. So when you look at this slide, you see a work-
    and-learn career pathway model where we have our gateway, how
    do we get in, and then we have our goal. And then you can see
    credentials as we get to our goal as the industry-recognized
    credentials. Now, if you look at the vertical path, you see
    that's a straight upward path, training, education, go to
    college, right? Everyone--you're taught to go to college. And
    then you have on the horizontal hands-on experience. You have
    those individuals that maybe come out of high school and just
    go with hands-on experience. But what we're seeing is neither
    path is necessarily the best path. We need to go on a diagonal
    path where you're getting education and hands-on experience
    contemporaneously interwoven together. So this is what we're
    seeing as a successful model, maybe not for everyone but it can
    help with those--that large pool of opportunities that exist
    and that are not being filled.
        So I'll go into my last point, which is industry
    engagement. Industry has to identify the standards are. It's
    not the schools, it's not the education community. We are to
    follow what industry says is needed. And so how do we do that?
    So when we look at industry-recognized credentials, industry-
    recognized standards, that is the key. The standards are the
    foundation that are actually written by industry. Industries
    are writing down what their needs are and then developing
    credentials around those standards to measure individuals
    against the standard.
        So if we use the credentials as an adhesive or a connector
    throughout the careers, for example, for me, I got started in
    middle school. Someone gave me the Walking Dead syndrome, maybe
    in different words, but they gave me that syndrome or they
    talked to me about it. And as I moved through my career, I
    earned the credentials and I had the work experience, making me
    a straight-A student through the entire process.
        So I want to thank you again for having me, and I look
    forward to some of the questions coming through.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. King follows:]

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        Chairwoman Comstock. That captures everyone's imagination.
    Thank you.
        Dr. Bardo, follow-up that act, right?

                      TESTIMONY OF DR. JOHN BARDO,

                               PRESIDENT,

                        WICHITA STATE UNIVERSITY

        Dr. Bardo. Well, thank you very much, Madam Chairwoman, and
    thank you for--everybody for having me here today. And the
    timing couldn't have been better in terms of following Mr.
    King.
        For those of you that don't spend all day thinking about
    Wichita, which I can't imagine any of you sitting up there
    wouldn't be doing that, Wichita is the third-highest
    percentage--it has the third-highest percentage of engineers in
    the workforce compared to San Jose and Houston. And we are very
    dependent on technology-based exports. In fact, to set up our
    programs when I came back home to Wichita, I did a study of the
    structure of the Wichita economy. We're very tightly tied to
    Dallas-Fort Worth, and we're very tightly tied to the I-35
    corridor. We also export to five or six places in the United
    States, export goods are where you make your money, and then we
    export overseas.
        We knew that those were very important things to know about
    the economy, but how does that play out within individual
    industry? So we at the university started a blueprint for
    regional economic growth, which was an analysis with business
    of their needs. We didn't go in and tell them what they needed;
    we asked them. And we identified eight areas where the economy
    of greater Wichita could grow, and our goal as a university is
    to support each of those areas over time as funds become
    available.
        You may also not know that Wichita has--Wichita State has a
    very long tradition of working with business and industry. We
    obtained our first major gift of the year--I was born in 1948,
    which was a wind tunnel given by Beech. We are now second in
    the United States in the percent of research money funded by
    industry. So we're very serious about our relationships with
    industry.
        And one of the points I want to make with you today is that
    that tie between industry research and education is absolutely
    crucial if you're going to be able to really make a difference
    for the capacity of the United States to build STEM and to
    build STEM-based industries.
        We also, as a university, are very prone to experiment.
    We've been prone to experiment over the course of decades--this
    isn't new--and we're very excited about the fact that we have a
    modified apprenticeship program going at a four-year
    university. Wichita State is what is in the vernacular known as
    a research II, which means that we are not the highest level of
    research but we're second. And we have a modified
    apprenticeship program. We started it--they tested it--with an
    aircraft industry. There were going to outsource a large
    engineering project to India. We convinced them to allow our
    undergraduate students to do it. It came in on time, better
    engineered, and while they weren't hiring, they hired 35
    percent of the students who worked on the project, and 83
    percent of the students stayed in the labor shed. A few others
    left. Two went to--one went to med school and one went to get a
    Ph.D. in engineering, and we're okay with both of those
    outcomes.
        We also were in the process of amalgamating a technical
    college into the university, Wichita Area Technical College
    July 1 will become Wichita Tech, WSU Tech. Why are we doing
    that? There are so many people who have hands-on skills who
    want to learn, who want to be part of the economy, want to be
    part of STEM, but they don't want to take on a 15-week course.
    They don't want to take on a 120-hour degree. And so what we're
    trying to do is to find ways of moving those students into the
    workforce and the model you were using, moving them into the
    workforce and building their capacity through offering short
    courses, through offering degrees, through offering
    certificates and building their capacity over time so that they
    can lead in their field.
        If they want to be a welder, if they want to be a sheet
    metal worker, we want them to do that. If they want to be a
    sheet metal worker supervisor, we want them to do that. If they
    want to be a designer of new aircraft, we want them to do that.
        So, Madam Chair, to cut this short, it's time for Congress
    to act as it did in the '80s. The Bayh-Dole Act changed the
    future of higher education in the United States. I believe it's
    time for Bayh-Dole II, and I believe this Committee is the
    committee that can make that happen. Thank you very much for
    having me here today.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Bardo follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you very much. I really
    appreciate all this testimony. It's given us so much food for
    thought, as well as great visualizations, too. So thank you.
        You know, as I was watching the video and as I go around
    and talk to businesses, as well as our schools, we know it's
    always a challenge to get more young women involved and engaged
    and stay in, as well as underserved populations and minorities,
    so I think a lot of what you've talked about here really
    addresses some of that, too. So how can we really, maybe, get
    them like from kindergarten?
        I know in my district we have a children's science museum
    that is stood up and now is going to expand and that's where my
    three-year-old granddaughter loves to spend every waking
    moment. And I've been in kindergarten classes now where they're
    coding and--you know, there's no daylight and everybody's in
    there. And what some of our schools that have like the
    highest--very high-needs schools, high--school lunch programs,
    have some of the best science programs in it now. So how do we
    get that pipeline way down there so that there's never--you
    know, they're always in it? I'll start with you, Mr. King,
    sure.
        Mr. King. And that's focusing more on the interest, right,
    to keep them----
        Chairwoman Comstock. Yes. Yes.
        Mr. King. Yes. I'm a big stickler on putting together
    achievements as, you know, Dr. Bardo had mentioned, having
    those achievements all the way through from that young age
    going through their career. And I want to put a personal--just
    a personal question--attribute here is that I was--someone
    showed me how to chase a thread. I needed a bolt for my
    bicycle, and it stuck in my head. And that was it. I was done.
    The rest of my career I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I
    wanted to be--I changed everything about my perception of
    college and how I would go through. And I think those types of
    experiences and moments is what we need to share with the kids
    so that they can do an interest inventory at that early age,
    and with that interest inventory it leads you out to your
    career. And it's a true career, not something that's being
    pressured by what others say. It's about what you actually
    enjoy doing.
        Chairwoman Comstock. So it's with those young children,
    instead of maybe Daddy comes in and does something for the
    little girl, that they actually walk them through it----
        Mr. King. Yes.
        Chairwoman Comstock. --and say you can do it, too.
        Mr. King. Absolutely, but then you have those underserved
    communities where they don't have that father----
        Chairwoman Comstock. Yes.
        Mr. King. --or they don't have that mother to show them,
    and that's where mentoring becomes an important piece. And so
    that's why I've dedicated over ten years of my life mentoring
    individuals that have that gap so that they can get the same
    experience. It's just not through their biological.
        Chairwoman Comstock. Right. And Dr. Bardo?
        Dr. Bardo. If I might, please. One of the things that we
    know is that we lose a lot of girls in middle school, and so
    really encouraging college women to spend time with girls in
    middle school is a big deal because it gives them a role model.
    It shows them you can be a normal girl and major in a STEM
    area. If you look, many of the new areas, particularly in
    engineering, are becoming more female-centered. Bioengineering
    we're seeing a lot more women interested. And part of the sales
    there is you can make a difference in people's lives, and so it
    becomes, you know, yes, it's math, yes, it's engineering, but
    at the end of the day, I can make a difference in people's
    lives.
        The other thing that we're experimenting with are half-
    credit-hour badges. We know that mother of three who's trying
    to hold down two jobs isn't likely to be able to make a 15-week
    course, so what we've done is break down many of our areas into
    half-credits that take about a week-and-a-half to do, and you
    can probably figure out how to get a babysitter or how to make
    things work and that allows you to inch in. So we're pretty
    excited about that.
        Chairwoman Comstock. Oh, that is great. And then also
    with--you know, I have a young woman's leadership program, and
    one of the things we try and do with the young people is get
    them into a workplace setting. You know, my mom was a teacher,
    my dad was an engineer but he was sales, so I never was in
    those type of job settings. I wasn't in a hospital, I wasn't in
    a manufacturing plant, and a lot of these places where you just
    don't understand what goes on there.
        So I think what I love about the mentoring programs and
    doing this is you're really getting kids in there and making
    sure we can get them to get some experience and see themselves
    in a workplace and see the whole path around them and the kind
    of environment they would be in. And I would think,
    particularly with an underserved population that might not have
    that experience where mom or dad is taking them to a workplace,
    that, you know, this really seems like a great way that we can
    get everybody on a level playing field where we get them
    engaged. And I guess that's sort of not quite as a question,
    but, Dr. McCrary----
        Dr. McCrary. Well----
        Chairwoman Comstock. --you have a----
        Dr. McCrary. Yes, Chairwoman Comstock. One other way that
    we've been able to successfully do that is engage the technical
    professional societies who have engaged with students at a very
    early age. So, for example, we worked in a program a few years
    ago with the American Chemical Society, the National
    Organization for Professional Advancement of Black Chemists and
    Chemical Engineers, and parents very early on. What happens
    when your young daughter says I'm going interested in becoming
    a chemist or becoming a chemical engineer, and so get those
    societies working very early, particularly the minority
    technical societies like Society of Hispanic Engineers, SHPE,
    Society of Women Engineers.
        Many of these national organizations have chapters
    throughout the country that are working at the K-12 level and
    at the same time offering workspace opportunities, as you
    mentioned, bringing people in chemical plants and engineering
    places and exposing them to them--students to them. So those
    type of programs are strongly encouraged.
        Chairwoman Comstock. Great. Okay. And I will now recognize
    Ms. Bonamici for five minutes.
        Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Chairwoman Comstock and Ranking
    Member Lipinski, and thank you to all of our witnesses.
        First, I want to express concern about President Trump's
    proposed budget plan. He's calling for a large cut to the Job
    Corps program and as well as completely eliminating funding for
    WANTO, the Women in Apprenticeship and Nontraditional
    Occupations. We have in Oregon, Oregon Tradeswomen, and they
    receive funding through WANTO. They've been recruiting,
    preparing, placing, and retaining women in the building trades
    very successfully. We need to be investing in more, not less,
    in programs that prepare people to go to work.
        And I frequently hear from employers out in Oregon about
    the challenges they face in recruiting skilled workers, and
    unfortunately, small and medium-sized businesses often don't
    have the resources to establish work-based learning programs.
    So I have introduced bipartisan legislation with my colleague
    also on the Education and Workforce Committee, Congressman Drew
    Ferguson from Georgia, the Bipartisan Partners Act, which would
    support partnerships to help small and medium-sized businesses
    establish work-based learning programs and support services for
    workers using existing funds so it's no additional cost to
    taxpayers.
        Mr. King, I understand that the National Institute of
    Metalworking Skills helps manufacturing businesses of all sizes
    establish and implement apprenticeship programs, but can you
    identify some of the challenges that small and medium-sized
    businesses face creating those job-training programs and how
    Congress could help level the playing field? And I do want to
    save time for another question as well.
        Mr. King. When it comes to the smaller organizations, even
    bigger organizations dealing with the unions, for
    manufacturing-sector jobs, the registered apprenticeship
    program has proven to be a little cumbersome and not as
    attractive for many of the employers. You can go into the
    construction industry, and it's working well for them, but when
    you're thinking about manufacturing, it does pose some
    problems. And the ROI, return on investment, it doesn't seem
    attractive to employers.
        So as a member of the task force, we are working towards
    recognizing apprenticeship programs because there's many
    programs out there that we call pseudo-programs. I mean they're
    training. Most companies are training; it's just not either
    registered or it's not recognized. And with a few quality
    checks to make sure that it includes some of the key
    components, I think we can expand more work-and-learn
    opportunities, and we can of course also spark more interest in
    kids.
        Ms. Bonamici. Terrific. And I encourage my colleagues on
    this committee to look at the Partners Act that Congressman
    Ferguson and I have.
        I want to shift a little bit to big picture, and I know the
    Chairwoman and Ranking Member know that I'm on the Education
    and Workforce Committee, as I mentioned, and have over the
    years looked for ways to make sure that students who are going
    through school who may be interested in STEM are educated to be
    more creative and innovative because I keep hearing about the
    innovative economy. So I started the STEAM Caucus and--about
    integrating the arts and design into STEM learning, and there
    are nationally recognized STEAM schools across the country that
    are very successful in engaging more students in STEM learning.
        CTE, career and technical education, as well in the K-12
    system, the more well-rounded education that is part of the
    Every Student Succeeds Act which this--the last Congress passed
    with strong bipartisan support is also going to help engage
    students early on.
        But what I wanted to mention is that not too long ago
    Google decided to test its sort of hiring hypothesis and they
    crunched all the numbers--hiring, firing, promotion data--since
    its inception. Here's what they found. Of the eight most
    important qualities of their top employees, STEM expertise came
    in last. The seven top characteristics were all soft skills:
    being a good coach, communicating, listening well, possessing
    insights into others, including others of different values and
    points of view, having empathy toward and being supportive of
    one's colleagues, being a good critical thinker and problem
    solver, and being able to make connections across complex
    ideas.
        So I know that we're talking about blue-collar STEM jobs
    here today. However, for people who want to advance in careers
    and for people who want to be successful and stay at companies,
    what are apprenticeship and work-based skills training doing to
    include all of these really critical interpersonal skills in
    their curriculum? I'll start with Mr. King and then anyone else
    who wants to weigh in.
        Mr. King. Sure. With the work-and-learn apprenticeship
    models, it gives you those soft skills by--I can tell you, for
    example, for me coming into my--on a work-study program, the
    work day started at 7:00, and I got there at like 6:50 and it
    was about five minutes after 7:00 when it was time to work. I
    was a good kid, but I just didn't have the soft skills. But the
    work-study program and working around those professionals is
    what helped me develop the soft skills I needed prior to even--
    I mean, you could've taught me all you wanted in the classroom.
    It was in that workplace is where it actually happened for me.
        Ms. Bonamici. Does anyone else want to add to the
    importance of the soft skills?
        Dr. Sands. Yes, I'll add a little bit to it. You know, as I
    mentioned, we work with several companies in their--in the
    design of their apprenticeship programs, and part of what we
    try to do is ensure that the types of tasks and jobs that
    students are involved with will help build those types of
    skills.
        And we've worked with--you know, there's programs out
    there--I don't know if you've heard of Necessary Skills Now
    through the Center of Occupation Research and Development, but
    they focus on six areas. And part of what I think needs to be
    done is those types of things like communications and ethics
    and so on need to be built into the experience of an
    apprenticeship program. It's not just the technical aspects but
    it's also, like you said, the workforce skills.
        Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. Dr. McCrary?
        Dr. McCrary. I just wanted to give you an example. Morgan
    State University is a member of a--has a Center of Academic
    Excellence and Cybersecurity, as one of our colleagues
    mentioned earlier, and when we met with them last fall, not
    only did they want to meet with our Dean of Engineering and our
    Dean of Computer Science, which is natural, but also our
    College of Liberal Arts and our School of Business. Why is that
    important? Because cybersecurity is not just confined to
    electrical engineering and computer science. It involves
    psychology; it involves foreign languages. And so they wanted
    to have that approach in terms of their research. And so for
    students in those areas, they also want to attract those
    students, as well as those in the hard-core STEM areas.
        Ms. Bonamici. Absolutely. Thank you very much, and I yield
    back. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you. And I now recognize Mr.
    Marshall for five minutes.
        Mr. Marshall. Yes, thank you, Chairwoman.
        Dr. Bardo, when I think of Wichita State University, I
    think of the innovation creativity entrepreneurship capital of
    the world. And you guys have always been way out there. You've
    always been a great visionary. Can you just take a minute and
    share a little bit about your Innovation Campus and what that
    looks like just so the other members could hear it?
        Dr. Bardo. Sure. What we're attempting to do at Wichita
    State is actually create an innovation university. And when you
    do that, you have to start with something that people can
    recognize. So we started by taking an old golf course and
    turning it into a public-private partnership enterprise where
    students can work. They can take three and four years of work
    in real businesses working on real projects at the same time
    they're studying general education, studying liberal arts,
    studying engineering, biology, whatever area they're in. We're
    making it a living learning environment because what we know
    about innovation is it isn't something that happens from 8:00
    to 5:00. It could happen at 3:00 in the morning. It could
    happen over a beer.
        And so we're encouraging restaurants, hotels, other
    entities that encourage students and faculty to come together
    and collide with each other and with businesses to be on the
    campus. We've seen a major increase in business interests. We
    have drawn businesses from as far away as Sweden to our campus.
    And, you know, we're in the great flyover. We're right in the
    center of the center and it can be done in that area, and it
    can be done successfully. But we're seeing great interest to a
    point where tours are getting to be a little bit of a problem
    because we're giving so many of them, and we're seeing
    excitement both in the local community and in the broader
    technology industry around us.
        Mr. Marshall. So your largest employer there I assume is
    Koch Industries. What have they done on campus with you guys?
        Dr. Bardo. They've done business on our campus in terms of
    creating a business center. Annie Koch, who is Koch's daughter-
    in-law now is creating an experimental school to see if we can
    take young children and get them engaged in STEM issues and in
    innovation early so--they're starting with preschool actually.
    And their building this school right on the campus, right near
    Airbus, right near our engineering building, and we're
    encouraging those students to be engaged with us from the time
    they're little children. We think that that's a way of getting
    them excited, getting them interested and then over time, as we
    learn, we'll try to generalize this out into public education
    but we'll also start encouraging students with disabilities,
    low-income students also to come in and be part of this
    experience so that it's a different way of looking at education
    as well.
        Mr. Marshall. Talk about teach the teachers a little bit.
    One of my biggest concerns is that this needs to be introduced
    in grade school much like used to teach French in grade school.
    I know Emporia State back home is doing a great job with
    teaching the teachers. Are any of you having experience with--
    how are we teaching the teachers, Dr. Sands?
        Dr. Sands. Yes, I'd like to maybe highlight one of the
    programs that's funded through the National Science Foundation.
    We run a cybersecurity center at Moraine Valley, and a big part
    of the cybersecurity center is a faculty development academy.
    And over the years it's evolved so, first of all, it's a
    virtual academy. Most computer systems nowadays are accessed
    remotely, so this academy is actually accessed remotely. And
    we're able to train faculty from across the country at free or
    very low rate. And basically, especially in the area of
    cybersecurity, is that the target moves constantly and the
    content changes constantly, so faculty development is a
    critical part of running quality programs. So we've been able
    to train--over the ten years that we've run the academy we've
    trained over 6,000 faculty members from across the country, and
    that would include high school faculty, it would include
    community college, and we've even had university faculty be
    part of it. But centralizing those things and having national
    centers like the ATE centers enables, you know, less--a better
    investment and able to reach a larger audience without having
    to have centers all over the place.
        Mr. Marshall. I have time for one more question. Dr. Bardo,
    talk about the--is it the Bayh-Dole Act? So paint the picture.
    What would that look like in the future? If you were king,
    paint that picture what Congress--what it needs to do--be done
    to update it for us.
        Dr. Bardo. Well, we have--I'm not sure exactly what you're
    speaking to.
        Mr. Marshall. The Bayh-Dole Act you talked about----
        Dr. Bardo. Oh, the Bayh-Dole Act, yes.
        Mr. Marshall. Forgive me.
        Dr. Bardo. Birch Bayh was a well-known Congressman many
    years ago, and of course Senator Dole we all know and love. The
    Bayh-Dole Act allowed universities to take inventions and to
    sell them to the marketplace. Prior to that time, the Federal
    Government owned anything that the Federal Government
    participated in. This was a sea change for universities, and we
    didn't recognize it.
        What the Bayh-Dole Act II would do--I mean, it obviously
    would have a different name and it might be the Comstock-
    Marshall Act but the--
        Mr. Marshall. It has a ring to it.
        Dr. Bardo. But the--what this would do would be to focus on
    what does the next generation need to look like? So, for
    example, to solve the problems of cybersecurity, to solve
    problems of health takes big science and big data. And what's
    ended up happening is that a relatively few universities
    control basic research, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
    Don't--I'm not criticizing. But for the rest of us we can make
    a real impact by integrating the work we do with the community.
        And so the Bayh-Dole Act II would really focus not on
    transferring intellectual property to business but would focus
    on trying to create applied STEM work that would benefit
    faculty, benefit students, and benefit the economy of the area.
    And in my long testimony I did make several suggestions of
    things that I felt might be something to be considered.
        Mr. Marshall. Okay. Thank you. And I yield back.
        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you. I now recognize Mr.
    Lipinski for five minutes.
        Mr. Lipinski. Thank you. I want to thank the witnesses for
    their testimony. I want to start out by asking Dr. Sands
    about--sort of elaborate on the cybersecurity credential, how
    you would see this coming about, how does that get--how would
    that get established in your eyes?
        Dr. Sands. You know, we have several national programs out
    there now that really could be leveraged to build a national
    credential. So, you know, as an example, the NSA/DHS Centers
    for Academic Excellence, they've established credentials for
    institutions so, you know, as far as aligning curriculum,
    faculty requirements, even institutional requirements. You
    know, if you're hanging a sign out at your institution at your
    cybersecurity center, guess what, you've just become a target,
    so you need to practice what you preach.
        And so part of that program has set those types of
    standards, and I think it would be an ideal program to expand
    those types of things to student credentials that as soon a
    student could earn as part of their service in an
    apprenticeship program. And a really good example of that might
    be the SFS program. So the SFS program, now the CyberCorps
    program, it's a scholarship program where students basically
    are awarded a--funding for scholarships during their academic
    time at school, and then they have to pay that back through
    service to either a federal agency or state or local
    government.
        But I think we could actually put standards on that
    apprenticeship program, and they could earn those credentials
    as part of their service in the apprenticeship program. Right
    now, there really isn't a standard out there for that.
        And the other thing I think would be really important is
    that the SFS program really focuses on federal and local
    government jobs. I think that should be expanded to the private
    sector as well because the private sector is suffering right
    now with the shortage of cybersecurity workers as well.
        Mr. Lipinski. Now, do you find--is it difficult to find
    students who are equipped to enter the--you know, the
    CyberCorps Scholarship for Service program?
        Dr. Sands. I think there's a challenge, and it's a very
    selective program. But I think as more and more community
    colleges--community colleges are new to the game, so they just
    came into this program in the last two years, and I think
    community colleges will have a lot in contributing additional
    students into the program.
        But I think other programs like GenCyber, it's a program
    that's funded through National Science Foundation also, enables
    us to run summer camps. So like this summer we ran a camp--a
    GenCyber camp, and we had 50 kids. By the way, half of them
    were women, which is really unusual in this area--or young
    girls. It even reached out to organizations like the Girl
    Scouts. But it allowed kids to come in for a week and learn
    everything from basic coding, capture-the-flag types of
    activities in cybersecurity, and then it wrapped up with a
    short competition.
        But what it enables us to do is to get the really talented
    kids that never thought about this type of career or a career
    in the STEM area to see the types of jobs that are out there
    and then the types of skills and opportunities that are
    provided in these fields.
        Mr. Lipinski. And I know that you have developed curricula
    for grade school, high school. How do you go about doing that?
    Do--and do you see schools being, you know, willing and able
    to, you know, implement these?
        Dr. Sands. It was a challenge early on because most schools
    don't want their students using cybersecurity tools on their
    production networks, so what we found was a model that, again,
    uses a virtual environment. So most schools aren't going to let
    students even modify credentials on their local machines. But
    by creating a curriculum that's virtual, now you have a safe
    sandbox where kids can actually learn the administration of
    systems and they can actually use systems that take advantage
    of vulnerabilities and see how those things work.
        And the other thing with that is that we can actually
    control what we are exposing students to, so, you know, we want
    them to see the benefit of these tools, but we also want, you
    know, there to be ethics that's taught as part of the program
    and so on.
        But I think, you know, just to address it, one other thing
    is, you know, exposing students to the actual jobs that are out
    there and then bringing them on trips to organizations or
    healthcare facilities or server farms where they can actually
    see what a typical IT or cybersecurity person does and the
    types of facilities that they work in. Most of us have no idea
    what those facilities look like, and, again, most high school
    teachers have never experienced those types of things.
        Mr. Lipinski. Thank you. And I want to thank you for your
    work and proud to have you in Moraine Valley there in the
    southwestern suburb of Chicago.
        Dr. Sands. We thank you for your support.
        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you. And I now recognize Mr.
    Banks for five minutes.
        Mr. Banks. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thanks for holding
    this important hearing.
        I'm very pleased to see the Trump Administration putting an
    emphasis on expanding apprenticeships and expanding educational
    opportunities beyond the traditional four-year college degree
    as we've discussed today. There are millions of job openings in
    our country that require a technical certification short of a
    college degree. These jobs pay well and can support a middle-
    class lifestyle.
        And in my home State of Indiana, I was proud to work with
    then-Governor Mike Pence, who recognized the untapped potential
    in this area and instituted a number of initiatives to increase
    access to technical and career education. Fifty-eight percent
    of Hoosier jobs are classified as ``middle-skilled,'' requiring
    more than a high school diploma but less than a college degree.
    At the same time, only 47 percent of Hoosiers currently qualify
    as, ``middle skilled.''
        According to the latest jobs report from the Bureau of
    Labor Statistics there are roughly 6 million job openings in
    our country. At the same time, the labor force participation
    rate among those 25 to 54 is still more than two percentage
    points below where it was at the beginning of 2008. We need to
    find a way to connect these workers with good-paying jobs that
    are and will become available which the data shows are often
    technical jobs that require certifications.
        So my first question for you, Dr. Sands, as you direct an
    Advanced Technological Education Program, do you have protocols
    in place to enroll those who are currently unemployed to fill
    middle-skilled job openings in your area? Can you describe
    that?
        Dr. Sands. Yes. We have several different programs. I can
    highlight one program. We had a program last year where we
    worked with returning veterans, and basically, it was
    completely designed around short-term credentialing. So
    basically, we had a cohort of 12 veterans. By the way, 11
    finish the program and 10 found employment after completing
    this program. But, you know, we have to change our traditional
    programs in many cases to reach those types of students. So
    they were able to finish this program in a 12-week period,
    again, work as a cohort.
        It was almost the perfect program because a lot of these
    students that were veterans already had security clearances,
    which are really critical in the cybersecurity field, so we
    were really leveraging, you know, a national resource that was
    really sort of untapped. And we've run a second type of program
    since then that's also been very, very successful.
        But I think in many cases what we need are programs that
    are based on stackable credentials, so there are many entrance
    and exit points, and curriculums that are designed around the
    requirements for those industry certifications. So not only are
    they gaining academic credentials, but they are--you know, like
    some of the other members have testified, they're also based
    around industry certifications and the skills and knowledge
    required with the industries.
        Mr. Banks. Great. Thank you. Mr. King, will your task force
    report on expanding apprenticeships include strategies on
    connecting prime-age workers that have dropped out of the labor
    force with apprenticeship programs and skilled technical
    positions?
        Mr. King. Yes, that is a major goal within expanding
    apprenticeship is not just for, you know, feeder system out of
    schools but even those--I have a statistic here that shows that
    there are about 5.5 million disconnected people between the
    ages of 16 and 24 who are currently out of school and not
    working, and so the key is to--you know, how do we get those
    individuals involved and teaching them more about the truth and
    reality of the opportunities and also including industry-
    recognized credentials where you can attain those credentials
    without having to go through a four-year program or even a two-
    year program. And as you earn the credentials, you can then
    articulate those into college pathways if your heart desires.
    So yes, with the industry-recognized credentials, it makes
    attaining these jobs much more accessible to these individuals
    that you're speaking of, yes.
        Mr. Banks. Thank you very much. Thanks for being here. I
    yield back.
        Mr. Marshall. [Presiding] The Chair recognizes Ms. Rosen
    for five minutes.
        Ms. Rosen. Thank you. I want to thank you all for being
    here today. And I know Chairwoman Comstock isn't here, but I
    want to thank her because, this week, a bill that I originated,
    Building Blocks of STEM and Code Like a Girl Act, were actually
    passed out of this committee and voted on unanimously in the
    House Tuesday night. And so, as a woman who's a former computer
    programmer, I am especially interested in young girls learning
    to code, and the Building Blocks of STEM does what you guys are
    doing, helping teachers in the classroom with curriculum and
    training and scholarships and education. So I thank this
    subcommittee for moving that forward and then the whole House
    and everyone who worked with me on that because we got
    something done this week in this space.
        So I want to talk a little bit about community colleges,
    local businesses, how we create those public-private
    partnerships. You know, when I'm in Nevada, I ask my local
    businesses, just like you said, to show kids a pathway to work
    for them for a good job in their company, whatever that is,
    whether it's in elementary school, junior high, or high school
    and to engage with those kids, Boys and Girls Clubs, wherever
    it makes sense for their business because we know--I know that
    the fear of data and analytics, it's really that fear I'm not
    smart enough to analyze this or see a computer or think about
    data is the barrier to success.
        And I had the opportunity to participate in some STEM
    roundtables with colleges--kids at the--or students at the
    College of Southern Nevada and community college, and we know
    that we're not funded so well there. So I guess I want to ask
    all the panelists. What can we do through the--if it's not NSF
    maybe through the Department of Education or the Department of
    Labor to reach out with our community partners like you're
    doing in a broader way to overcome this fear of data and
    analytics and show people a pathway to these kinds of jobs. You
    know, if you watch TV, you think there's about three jobs,
    police, firemen, right, and so they're not getting exposed to
    some of these really interesting, amazing jobs. So could you
    speak to some of that?
        Dr. McCrary. Briefly. I think a couple things that we have
    to do is start also at the K-12 level and start with both
    parents and counselors. Particularly for the skilled technical
    workforce, we have to remove the stigma about these jobs, that
    these are actually good-paying jobs, as well as showing multi-
    ramps or onramps toward careers.
        As one of my colleagues says, it's not just going to four-
    year schools or bust but also there are a lot of other
    opportunities in those jobs. So I think one is working with
    high school counselors, working with parents. I will say
    that's--what I said earlier in--some of the technical
    organizations have held trials working with parents, talking
    with parents who may be--their students may be first-generation
    college, so talking to them about these careers.
        I think the other thing is building partnerships, and so
    that's where the National Science Board and NSF can facilitate
    that conversation between community colleges, technical
    schools, four-year schools and even trade union organizations
    to talk about----
        Ms. Rosen. Right.
        Dr. McCrary. --the opportunities that are there and the
    ability for people to manage their careers throughout the
    spectrum.
        Ms. Rosen. Fantastic. Anyone else want to address it?
        Dr. Bardo. Please. We are in the process of amalgamating a
    technical college within a research university, but we also are
    in the process of restructuring our College of Education to be
    the primary face that works with the technical college because
    we really do believe that there's a combination there of
    working with the teachers, working with the schools, and
    starting young. But the technical college in Kansas has the
    authority and the funding to work in the schools----
        Ms. Rosen. Right.
        Dr. Bardo. --which we as a research university don't. At
    the same time, we've got capacity to prepare the teachers for
    the changes that are coming.
        Ms. Rosen. Right. I think that's where it starts, with the
    teachers in the classroom.
        Dr. Bardo. Right. But we've been very excited because one
    of the projects--aircraft is designed throughout the world with
    the software package called CATIA and working with CATIA--
    actually with their parent company--we've been able to get that
    software into the schools for free. And so when a student comes
    to the university, they've already been programming in the core
    language that is being used in industry.
        Ms. Rosen. Fantastic, thank you. I really appreciate all
    the work you're doing. It's so important and empowering our
    teachers to realize that there's pathways for kids to learn
    these skills and all kinds of great ways is the best way to do
    it, so thank you. I yield back my time.
        Chairwoman Comstock. Great. And I now recognize Mr. Tonko
    for five minutes.
        Mr. Tonko. Thank you, Madam Chair. And welcome to our
    guests. I would hope just listening to some discussion, that
    while we advance this effort for skills-based programs, we need
    to keep that balance going with higher ed so that we don't
    abandon one against another. They're both vitally important. So
    that concern is one that I think needs to be addressed head-on.
        I recently met with leaders at Hudson Valley Community
    College, HVCC, in my capital district region of New York, an
    institution that is making a difference on the issue of
    workforce needs and in advanced manufacturing. They shared
    insights from local business leaders and employers expressing
    the need to train more people in advanced manufacturing in
    order to close the skills gap both in our region and certainly
    in our country.
        By 2024 the--New York State will have an estimated 168,730
    new jobs open in advanced manufacturing and many more obviously
    across the country. With an aging workforce and rising demand
    for the skills, we need to be preparing our students, our
    schools, and our industries now to ensure we have workers ready
    to enter these emerging fields. HVCC is taking a visionary step
    forward in this space, creating the Gene F. Haas for Center for
    Advanced Manufacturing Skills known as CAMS, which will allow
    the college to double its enrollment in the advanced
    manufacturing technology, their AOS degree program, and meet
    the urgent and growing demand for skilled workers in our
    region.
        CAMS will be a one-stop hub for employee training and
    recruitment. The building's design provides corporate partners
    with access to offices and conference space adjacent to faculty
    offices, student classrooms, and labs. Facilities will be
    available for business demonstration purposes, shared training
    activities, meetings, and events that connect the college to
    its workforce partners more than ever before.
        HVCC is also developing innovative programs for student
    workforce training. For example, their Manufacturing Technology
    Pathways program allows students to take short noncredit
    skills--skills-based courses leading to local certifications
    that will help them develop a career ladder of stackable
    credentials for students that are valued by manufacturers.
        They also offer an intensive boot camp training program
    providing a pathway to entry into careers in advanced
    manufacturing or the options of taking credit classes. I've
    also been told that, currently, there is more demand by
    employers for graduates of HVCC's advanced manufacturing
    technician program than there are graduates. It's a great thing
    to know we're training people for career opportunities that
    exist today. I've been at the graduations, I've seen the
    interest, I've seen the passion, and it's a powerful statement
    made by these young career-path-bound people.
        Local companies such as Global Foundries, GE, Watervliet
    Arsenal, and Simmons Machine Tool Company compete to hire these
    graduates, and there is still a shortfall. This speaks highly
    to the program but also informs us of the urgency of closing
    this skills gap.
        So to all panelists, can community colleges fill a vital
    role in the community of closing skills gaps? Is there a
    special relationship that they can have with--that closes the
    gap between industry and higher ed? Anyone?
        Dr. McCrary. Well, you--one of the things that you pointed
    out, the balance between the skilled technical workforce,
    apprenticeships, and also higher education, if you think about
    in the STEM fields, 49 percent of those people who entered the
    STEM fields come through community colleges, and so community
    colleges provide those opening doors and a path whether you
    want to go on for a four-year education or go in for, say, a
    higher technical skilled workforce degree.
        I think in those areas that's where the community colleges
    can really link with the four-year institutions, as well as
    with the trade organizations to be those pathways for those
    skilled technical workers and to be able to fill the shortages.
        Mr. Tonko. Dr. Sands?
        Dr. Sands. Yes, I'd like to also speak to this. I think
    community colleges play a special role in that, so community
    colleges can provide a second chance so, you know, someone
    didn't--you know, failed a chance to go on to a university many
    times come back through the community colleges, get
    credentials, get in the workforce, and many of those students
    go on to finish undergraduate and graduate degrees. But we also
    get returning--we've had in our program people to return with
    graduate degrees, they come back and they are either changing
    careers or they're trying to upgrade their skills. So I think
    community colleges are well-placed to provide those types of
    options.
        And, you know, when I go to different things within my
    community, I mean, whether it's at a hospital or an auto repair
    place or whatever, most of the times I asked where they're
    getting their students. And nine out of ten times, you know, I
    hear it's someone that came through, you know, the neighborhood
    community college. So I think, you know, they play a vital role
    in this.
        Part of the thing is in investing so that they have the
    tools and the technology that represent the greatest impact and
    represent what industries actually need because I think that's
    the biggest challenge we have sometimes is that, you know, a
    lot of these things are changing at a rapid pace and community
    colleges don't always necessarily have the funding to represent
    those types of technologies and the types of skills that are
    necessary to meet changing areas of technology.
        Mr. Tonko. Yes. Dr. Bardo, were you going to say something?
        Dr. Bardo. Yes--
        Mr. Tonko. Mr. King, too?
        Dr. Bardo. Yes, just very quickly. One of the really big
    issues that we are seeing is we do so much applied research
    that we're seeing five and ten years out what the advanced
    manufacturing is going to look like, and it's going to be very
    different than it is today. We're working with major
    corporations primarily from the Midwest but really all over the
    world, and the changes that are coming are dramatic. So it's
    not just the funding for today and it's not just getting them
    into the job today. One of the issues we're seeing in Wichita
    is people aren't silly. They look and say, ``Well, wait a
    minute, in five years, we're not to be making aircraft the way
    were making them today. We're not going to be designing
    fuselages the way we're doing today, so why should I spend all
    that time preparing when I know that my job's going to be
    gone?''
        So having a long-term view where you give people a ladder
    to success so that it's not just today's job, but if you take
    today's job, we're going to continue working with you and help
    you move as advanced manufacturing moves.
        Mr. Tonko. Thank you.
        Mr. King. Yes. I think community colleges are extremely
    important. Right now, NIMS, we're working with Raytheon, which
    is a large missile defense company with an apprenticeship
    program that we're planning to scale across the entire
    organization. And--but we're working in Tucson first as a
    launch and we're actually--we brought--we're bringing the
    college and Raytheon together with NIMS as a consulting piece
    to work together. So Raytheon and the local college, they're
    now going all the way--they're planning to go all the way into
    the middle schools to start giving Raytheon hats. I mean, you
    know, and the community college will be working with them on
    the recruiting piece. So it can't be done with just one piece.
    It has to be done together. But putting skin in the game, we
    have Raytheon and the college working together. I think that's
    key.
        Mr. Tonko. Thank you. I yield back and I thank the Chair
    for allowing me to go well past, but we had a lot of people
    anxious to answer, so----
        Chairwoman Comstock. Yes.
        Mr. Tonko. --thank you, Madam Chair.
        Chairwoman Comstock. No--and I appreciated the information,
    too, so thank you.
        And I now recognize Mr. Hultgren for five minutes.
        Mr. Hultgren. Thank you, Chairwoman. I appreciate you all
    being here. This is a very important hearing and it's something
    that I'm passionate about.
        As a Member of this Committee, I see sparking an interest
    in young people in STEM fields as a vital part of what we need
    to be doing and certainly what our nation needs in order to
    remain competitive going into the future. More importantly than
    that, I do think discovery and innovation are part of our DNA
    as a nation.
        Back in my district I've had the privilege of starting a
    STEM scholars program where I meet with about 30 young people,
    high-schoolers from around my district. I represent seven
    counties just outside of Chicago, and this is our second year
    of having our STEM scholars. And I meet with them once a month.
    I'm going to be with them this Saturday for a couple of hours.
    We go to different parts around northern Illinois to see how
    they can apply STEM education and STEM passion in careers right
    in our area.
        We're so fortunate to have some great laboratories like
    Fermilab and Argonne, but we have some amazing companies that
    are doing some really cool work as well. And every place I go
    people are looking to hire more engineers, more programmers, so
    we need to keep figuring out ways to spark that.
        I asked them if they had any questions for you all. I hope
    it's all right. I'm going to throw out some questions from my
    STEM scholars and see what your thoughts are. One of the
    scholars, Akin from Oswego, stressed the importance of hands-on
    learning and the effects that internships for high school
    students can have. These are often hard to find and take a
    company that is willing to host. His school can also give
    credits for these internships. How can we measure the success
    of this kind of career exposure at a younger age, and how can
    we improve the relationship between businesses and schools to
    develop these opportunities?
        Dr. McCrary. I'll give you one example, and this is at the
    four-year level because there's a concern even at the four-year
    level that many of our students, even our engineering students
    are very good from a book point of view but they don't know the
    difference between a Phillips head screwdriver and a regular
    screwdriver.
        Mr. Hultgren. I struggle with that, too, but----
        Dr. McCrary. One program is we're working with industry is
    we're working with Northrop Grumman. Morgan State University is
    located in the Baltimore/Washington region. Part of that
    industry is national security. They have a program called cyber
    warriors, and what they have done is they're working with our
    students. They have them do hands-on coding. Actually do mock
    attacks on systems and--so that our students can get that
    hands-on, plus coupled with internships. You know, when I came
    along--I won't say how long ago--you could come out and not
    have an internship during the summer, you'd go work for a
    company, and they'd say you can get up to speed in two years.
    But most businesses nowadays are out of business in two years
    if they can't have an employee who hits the ground running.
        And so also with many of our companies, as well as
    government partners like the Navy, we work very early on,
    freshman coming in and getting internships and getting hands-on
    experience, coupled with their formal learning makes a product
    that comes out the door that both industry and government
    wants.
        Mr. Hultgren. That's great. One of my STEM scholars from
    our first year was a high school student but was also part of a
    cyber warrior team through his high school where they were
    doing, like you said, these types of mock attacks but also
    learning from it. And I talk about it with my own kids. I've
    got four kids, but my younger guys are 13 and 16. Whenever they
    travel with me, they're my tech support team, so whenever I've
    got a problem or question with my technology, they're the ones
    to answer.
        Let me get through another question quick. Another student,
    Taylor, who goes to school in Elgin, had some questions about
    your experiences as being mentors. How willing are you to take
    on a mentee, and how many are you able to work with? Have you
    turned anyone down? Also, how valuable are these experiences to
    you as a mentor?
        I would throw it out maybe to one of the other panelists if
    anybody has a thought on being a mentor.
        Dr. Sands. You know, the way we sort of deal with that is
    that we have a couple different groups on campus that
    specifically serve as mentors.
        Mr. Hultgren. Right.
        Dr. Sands. So we have Women in Technology, and we basically
    have about 60 ex-graduates of the institution, and we pair them
    up with current students for mentorship, so it really expands
    our capacity. And we have that in several other areas.
        And one of the other things I'd mention--you mentioned the
    national labs. We work with Argonne National Labs and, you
    know, they host an annual competition that students are able to
    get hands-on experience, but they have a group of businesses
    that work with the participants and provide mentorships and
    trips to their facilities--
        Mr. Hultgren. Great.
        Dr. Sands. --and--you know, and so on.
        Mr. Hultgren. Fantastic.
        Dr. Bardo. The--one of the things we learn from the beta
    test that we completed is that the students are pretty excited
    about being involved in a real project in a real business.
        Mr. Hultgren. That's right.
        Dr. Bardo. And what the business told us--actually, what
    the V.P. in charge of that division told us was that it gave a
    new life to many of the long-term employees, that they really
    felt that having the young person there changed their
    perspective as well. And so they had a reverse mentoring day
    every so often where the student would mentor the older worker
    as well.
        Mr. Hultgren. Great.
        Dr. Bardo. And so mentoring within a formal organization,
    actually our experience has been that has been a tremendous
    boon both to the organization and to the student.
        If I might mention, one of the things that we heard from
    industry is that if you hire a new engineer with a bachelor's
    degree it takes approximately two years for that engineer to
    contribute to your bottom line, which is why you'll hear
    industry say there are no engineers available.
        Mr. Hultgren. Right.
        Dr. Bardo. Well, there are, but they're young ones----
        Mr. Hultgren. Right.
        Dr. Bardo. --right? And so the--what we found is, as we put
    students through the apprenticeship program, that it cut the
    time to profitability for the business to six months, so it had
    a huge impact--
        Mr. Hultgren. That's great.
        Dr. Bardo. --on the bottom line of the business. It had a
    huge impact on the workers who were working with the students,
    and it really changed the quality of the students' education.
        Mr. Hultgren. That's fantastic. I'm out of time. I have
    more questions from my STEM scholars. I may follow up in
    writing if that's all right to get answers to my STEM scholars.
    One last thing I'll say is quite a few of my STEM scholars are
    part of robotics. FIRST Robotics has been amazing. This idea of
    gracious professionalism, teaching young people, I think that's
    something we need to learn here in Congress about the idea of
    gracious professionalism, but so excited again about the mentor
    relationship that we see through robotics but so many other
    things and really encouraging, Dr. Bardo, to hear about how it
    is cutting down that time it takes for someone to add real
    value on the ground, so thank you. Thank you all for your work.
    I look forward to figuring out how we can work together as well
    for what we know is the right thing for America.
        With that, thank you, Chairwoman. I yield back.
        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you. And thank you, Dr. Bardo,
    for that point. That is really interesting and that really kind
    of goes to one of the things that we know in the future
    economy. You have to be lifelong learners. So for the mentors
    to also be getting that push from the mentees is exciting.
        And I now yield five minutes to Mr. Beyer.
        Mr. Beyer. Thank you, Madam Chair, very much. And thank you
    all for being here.
        Dr. McCrary, in his recent report on America's skilled
    technical workforce the National Academies recommended that the
    National Science Foundation commission a study on how countries
    with, quote, ``more proficient workers'' have developed their
    skilled technical workforce. So we all know about the German
    experience with apprenticeships. So I lived in Switzerland for
    four years, and one of the most interesting pieces was that,
    you know, 70 percent of the kids were going into the technical
    vocational training rather than the college-bound. And they had
    the Fachhochschule, which is essentially their equivalent of
    the community colleges. And what's fascinating every year was
    that they--there were more jobs than there were trained workers
    coming out of these apprenticeship programs. They're training
    people for the skills that were needed in the workforce.
        So the key question that we asked overseas and which they
    tried to ask the Department of Labor through the Obama and
    early Trump Administrations was how do we change the culture
    here to make that happen?
        Dr. McCrary. I think we have to change the culture is first
    we have to, again, as I said earlier, have to change the
    stigma. We have to say that very early on for a number of folks
    that there are opportunities besides just the traditional
    linear four-year track. Places like Maryland, places like South
    Carolina have started very successfully apprentice-based
    programs. And what they have done is they've gotten into the
    schools very, very early, talked to people about the different
    opportunities.
        I'll give you a good example. In Baltimore city, right now,
    there's about anywhere between 1,500 to maybe 2,000 throughout
    the state electrical workers that--jobs need to be filled,
    according to IBEW about 100,000 across the Nation. But many of
    these jobs involve coding, and many of these jobs involve
    understanding circuit analysis. In some sense, the electrician
    that we knew years ago is not the same today. So what they have
    done is gone out to the schools and talked about how exciting
    these jobs can be, how they can put a number of things
    together.
        And getting back to what you said about the apprentice-
    based education, one of the things our task force is going to
    be looking at is looking at that apprentice-based model and see
    how that compares with what we can do here, some of the
    programs that are going on in some of the states now, and how
    can we adapt parts of that to the economy here in the United
    States.
        Mr. Beyer. Thank you very much. Dr. Sands, you have this
    community college background, which is terrific. You see more
    and more states little by little adopting the free community
    college model. It was led first I guess by a Republican Mayor
    in Memphis and then by a Republican Governor in Tennessee. I
    think the Republican Governor of Maryland is moving in that
    direction pretty quickly. Is this--by making that 13th and 14th
    grade free, does this help that? Do we still need to have a
    cash investment in it on behalf of the individual to make the
    education worthwhile? What's your perspective?
        Dr. Sands. I think it's more critical than ever. I mean, we
    look at the cost of universities and colleges across the
    country, and community colleges, even at the current rates, are
    really the only option that a lot of these students have. So,
    you know, any help that community colleges have in lowering
    tuition especially--I mean, I can just mention in the State of
    Illinois with our financial issues, the need for more
    affordable education is more important than ever.
        Mr. Beyer. Very cool. And, Dr. Bardo, you talked about the
    mismatch in terms of where the apprenticeship programs have
    grown up. You know, we do great in Connecticut and in Virginia
    and maybe not so well in Louisiana and Arkansas. What's the
    long-term implication of having this disparity?
        Dr. Bardo. I think the fundamental issue is that education
    changed a lot, and we in higher education have been slow to the
    table to get to the notion that you have to have experience and
    apply the knowledge that you learned to know--when I was in
    college, when you were in college, to pass a test, you know,
    you got an A, you were good. Then it became, okay, well,
    everybody has to have an internship, some kind of an
    experience. And what we're finding today is that really deep
    understanding of whatever you're studying, if it's English or
    it's engineering, really requires you to look beyond the
    classroom. And I think that not having that happening is really
    hurting our workforce, it's hurting our national
    competitiveness, and it's hurting the competitiveness of those
    states that aren't taking this seriously and moving forward.
        Mr. Beyer. Great. Thank you very much.
        Madam Chair, I yield back.
        Chairwoman Comstock. I thank the witnesses for their
    testimony and the Members for their questions, and now the
    record will remain open for two weeks for additional written
    comments and written questions from Members, including some of
    those that may be from the STEM scholars. That sounded very
    interesting.
        And I really thank you for the good work you're doing. I
    think we are really going to be needing a sea change in how we
    approach these jobs, and you've really mapped out for us some
    ideal approaches on how we can really change this up for the
    better.
        And the great thing about a lot of this is we're talking
    about people who aren't going to have to get hundreds of
    thousands of dollars in debt for going to college for a degree
    that may not even be what they wanted. You know, if we really
    start working with these kids at a young age, have them
    understand these jobs are available, really have them hands-on
    experience and see the whole career path and opportunities that
    are available to them, they can both get into areas that will,
    you know, pay for themselves, as well as really be what we need
    in the economy, so I just think there's a lot of exciting
    synergies here that we've just started to scratch the surface
    of, but you've really given us a great path here.
        So I know we were already talking up here on some possible
    legislation in this area and how we can continue to support
    your efforts, so thank you for all you're doing. And we're
    adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 10:50 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

                                   Appendix I

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                       Answers to Post-Hearing Questions

                       Answers to Post-Hearing Questions

    Responses by Dr. Victor R. McCrary

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    Responses by Dr. John Sands

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    Responses by Mr. Montez King

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    Responses by Dr. John Bardo

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