    [House Hearing, 115 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                          U.S. FIRE ADMINISTRATION AND
                      FIRE GRANT PROGRAMS REAUTHORIZATION:
                     EXAMINING EFFECTIVENESS AND PRIORITIES

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                    SUBCOMMITTEE ON RESEARCH AND TECHNOLOGY

                  COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                         ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                                 JULY 12, 2017

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 115-21

                                   __________

     Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

           Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov

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                  COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY

                       HON. LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas, Chair
    FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma             EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
    DANA ROHRABACHER, California         ZOE LOFGREN, California
    MO BROOKS, Alabama                   DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois
    RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois             SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
    BILL POSEY, Florida                  AMI BERA, California
    THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              ELIZABETH H. ESTY, Connecticut
    JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma            MARC A. VEASEY, Texas
    RANDY K. WEBER, Texas                DONALD S. BEYER, JR., Virginia
    STEPHEN KNIGHT, California           JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
    BRIAN BABIN, Texas                   JERRY MCNERNEY, California
    BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia           ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado
    BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia            PAUL TONKO, New York
    RALPH LEE ABRAHAM, Louisiana         BILL FOSTER, Illinois
    DRAIN LaHOOD, Illinois               MARK TAKANO, California
    DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida              COLLEEN HANABUSA, Hawaii
    JIM BANKS, Indiana                   CHARLIE CRIST, Florida
    ANDY BIGGS, Arizona
    ROGER W. MARSHALL, Kansas
    NEAL P. DUNN, Florida
    CLAY HIGGINS, Louisiana
    RALPH NORMAN, South Carolina
                                     ------

                    Subcommittee on Research and Technology

                     HON. BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia, Chair
    FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma             DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois
    RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois             ELIZABETH H. ESTY, Connecticut
    STEPHEN KNIGHT, California           JACKY ROSEN, Nevada
    DARIN LaHOOD, Illinois               SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
    RALPH LEE ABRAHAM, Louisiana         AMI BERA, California
    DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida              DONALD S. BEYER, JR., Virginia
    JIM BANKS, Indiana                   EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
    ROGER W. MARSHALL, Kansas
    LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas

                                C O N T E N T S

                                 July 12, 2017

                                                                       Page
    Witness List.....................................................     2

    Hearing Charter..................................................     3

                               Opening Statements

    Statement by Representative Barbara Comstock, Chairwoman,
      Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science,
      Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........     4
        Written Statement............................................     6

    Statement by Representative Daniel Lipinski, Ranking Member,
      Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science,
      Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........     8
        Written Statement............................................    10

    Statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, Ranking
      Member, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House
      of Representatives.............................................    12
        Written Statement............................................    14

                                   Witnesses

    Dr. Denis Onieal, Acting Administrator, United States Fire
      Administration
        Oral Statement...............................................    17
        Written Statement............................................    20

    Chief John Sinclair, President and Chair of the Board,
      International Association of Fire Chiefs; Fire Chief, Kittitas
      Valley Fire and Rescue (WA)
        Oral Statement...............................................    30
        Written Statement............................................    32

    Captain John Niemiec, President, Fairfax County (VA) Professional
      Fire Fighters and Paramedics-International Association of Fire
      Fighters Local 2068
        Oral Statement...............................................    40
        Written Statement............................................    42

    Mr. Steve Hirsch, First Vice Chair, National Volunteer Fire
      Council; Training Officer, Sheridan County Fire District #1,
      Thomas County Fire District #4, and Grinnell Fire Department
      (KS)
        Oral Statement...............................................    51
        Written Statement............................................    53

    Dr. Gavin Horn, Research Program Director, Illinois Fire Service
      Institute
        Oral Statement...............................................    66
        Written Statement............................................    69

    Chief H. ``Butch'' Browning, Jr., President, National Association
      of State Fire Marshals, Louisiana State Fire Marshal
        Oral Statement...............................................    84
        Written Statement............................................    86

    Discussion.......................................................    95

                 Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions

    Dr. Denis Onieal, Acting Administrator, United States Fire
      Administration.................................................   110

                Appendix II: Additional Material for the Record

    Letters submitted by Representative Barbara Comstock, Chairwoman,
      Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science,
      Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........   114

    Letter submitted by Representative Daniel Lipinski, Ranking
      Member, Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on
      Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives..   124

                            U.S. FIRE ADMINISTRATION
                    AND FIRE GRANT PROGRAMS REAUTHORIZATION:
                     EXAMINING EFFECTIVENESS AND PRIORITIES

                                  ----------

                            WEDNESDAY, JULY 12, 2017

                      House of Representatives,
               Subcommittee on Research and Technology,
                   Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
                                                       Washington, D.C.

        The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:07 a.m., in
    Room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Barbara
    Comstock [Chairwoman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6238.001

    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6238.002

        Chairwoman Comstock. The Committee on Science, Space, and
    Technology will come to order.
        Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare
    recesses of the Committee at any time.
        Good morning, and welcome to today's hearing titled ''U.S.
    Fire Administration and Fire Grant Programs Reauthorization:
    Examining Effectiveness and Priorities.'' I now recognize
    myself for five minutes for an opening statement.
        The purpose of today's hearing is to review the United
    States Fire Administration and the Assistance to Firefighters
    (FIRE) and Staffing for Adequate Fire and Emergency Response
    (SAFER) grant programs. The hearing will help inform
    legislation to address current program authorizations that
    expire on September 30, 2017.
        Fire prevention and safety is literally a matter of life
    and death. In 2015 there were 1.34 million fires reported in
    the United States, causing over 3,000 civilian deaths and over
    15,000 injuries. In addition to this devastating human loss,
    fires caused $14.3 billion in property damage.
        As I travel throughout my district and visit with my
    firefighters and paramedics and first responders, I am
    constantly reminded of the sacrifices that these brave men and
    women make on a daily basis to protect their fellow citizens in
    our community. Last year, sadly, 69 of those brave men and
    women across the country lost their lives in the line of duty.
        Fire prevention has improved dramatically in the last 40
    years since Congress passed the Federal Fire Prevention and
    Control Act in 1974, which created the U.S. Fire Administration
    and the National Fire Academy, but these numbers are still too
    high.
        USFA and NFA are tasked with data collection, public
    education, as well as research and training efforts, to help to
    reduce fire deaths and make our communities and residents
    safer.
        We will hear from the Acting Administrator of the U.S. Fire
    Administration today about how the agency works to fulfill its
    mission and learn how we can enhance its efforts to improve
    fire safety in the United States.
        Firefighting activities and funding are primarily the
    responsibility of states and local communities. However, for
    the last 15 years the Federal Government has awarded
    competitive federal grants directly to local fire departments
    and unaffiliated emergency medical services organizations to
    help address a variety of equipment, training, and other
    firefighter-related and EMS needs, and oftentimes those are
    dealing with new technologies too that we want to make sure you
    have the best and the latest.
        FIRE Act awards provide funding for equipment and training
    to ensure the safety of our nation's first responders. SAFER
    Act awards help departments address hiring, recruiting and
    retaining firefighters to help maintain and increase the number
    of trained firefighters in local communities.
        I know that many professional and volunteer departments in
    my district rely on these grants so they can continue to
    provide high-quality fire and emergency services both to their
    communities, and I know in the instance of my community, they
    often are helping people throughout the country as well as
    internationally acclaimed.
        So a fine member of one of those departments is here today
    with us, Captain John Niemiec, from the Fairfax County Fire and
    Rescue Department. I look forward to hearing his testimony on
    the needs of the firefighters in his department and around the
    country.
        We have a panel representing state and local fire
    departments and organizations from around the country:
    Washington State, Kansas, Louisiana and Illinois. All have
    different needs, and I look forward to their input on how we
    can improve the fire safety in all communities and support our
    nation's first responders.
        Last month the horrific Grenfell Tower fire in London that
    killed over 80 people reminded us we cannot take fire safety
    for granted. Closer to home, it was just two years ago that a
    Metro fire injured 70 and killed a Virginia resident who was a
    grandmother of three. In each case, first responders ran
    towards the flames and prevented additional lives from being
    lost.
        I look forward to working with my colleagues on both sides
    of the aisle to move this timely legislation to ensure our
    nation's firefighters and paramedics have the tools they need
    to fight and prevent fire.
        And with that, I look forward to hearing the testimonies of
    our witnesses.
        [The prepared statement of Chairwoman Comstock follows:]
        [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6238.003

        [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6238.004

        Chairwoman Comstock. And I now recognize the Ranking
    Member, the gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Lipinski, for his
    opening statement.
        Mr. Lipinski. I thank you, Chairwoman Comstock.
        The authorizations of the U.S. Fire Administration
    Assistance to Firefighters Grant, or AFG, program as well as
    the Staffing for Adequate Fire and Emergency Response, or SAFER
    grant program, expire in just 2 months. Without Congressional
    action, both programs will terminate on January 2, 2018, under
    sunset provisions included in the last reauthorization. I hope
    this Committee will work to get a bill to the President's desk
    before that time to reauthorize these programs.
        I thank our distinguished panelists for being here today
    and for their service in keeping the American public safe from
    fire and from other hazardous threats.
        In the early 1990s, fires claimed 12,000 Americans lives
    per year and caused $11 billion in damage, making the U.S. the
    leader of all major industrialized countries in per capita
    deaths and property loss from fire. A 1973 report by the
    National Commission on Fire Prevention and Control, titled
    America Burning, recommended the establishment of the U.S. Fire
    Administration and the National Fire Academy.
        Thanks in large part to the efforts of those institutions
    and all of our first responders, the Nation is making progress
    in lowering fire fatalities. Today's rate of just over 3,000
    civilian fire deaths per year is significantly lower than in
    the 1970s, but it is still one of the highest in the
    industrialized world. Unfortunately, it will be difficult to
    reduce fire fatalities and property loss without adequate
    funding of the Fire Administration and fire grant programs.
    While appropriated funding levels have remained somewhat flat
    for the last few years, these levels are well below program
    authorizations. Critical areas such as firefighter safety, fire
    protection, and fire data collection and analysis, all of which
    assist fire service professionals in the field and help keep
    communities safe, are underfunded.
        Career, volunteer, and combination fire departments all
    face challenges in meeting their day-today needs. Local fire
    departments are the boots on the ground for fire prevention and
    protection, but when state budgets do not allow for adequate
    funding to hire firefighters and ensure proper training and
    access to life-saving protective gear and equipment, there is a
    federal role in providing funding and technical assistance. The
    Fire Grants Reauthorization Act of 2012 made significant
    changes to the fire grant programs to address some of these
    funding and technical obstacles. Changes included the
    distribution of AFG fire funding among the various types of
    fire departments, reducing the cost share requirement for
    smaller departments, and waiving the matching requirements for
    less affluent communities.
        Whether in a booming local economy or a struggling one,
    many of today's fire departments do more than fight fire. They
    respond to medical calls, hazardous materials calls, and calls
    about other hazardous situations, such as an active shooter. It
    is critical that the more than one million firefighters across
    the Nation have access to proper training to protect the public
    and themselves while doing a very tough job. The National Fire
    Academy curriculum reflects current firefighter duties to help
    fire and emergency professionals prepare for all-hazards
    responses. Achieving successful outcomes in all-hazards
    responses often requires the use of advanced firefighting
    technologies. Federal agencies including the Department of
    Homeland Security, the National Institute of Standards and
    Technology, and the National Science Foundation along with the
    university research community, are investing in fire-related
    research, including first responder protective equipment,
    health and safety monitoring of emergency responders, and smart
    information and communications technologies for real-time
    situational awareness. I look forward to Dr. Horn's testimony
    on how these technologies help firefighters and what research
    needs and capability gaps require further investment.
        I look forward to hearing from our panel--I look forward to
    hearing our panel discuss the effects of these changes and
    others to the fire service community, and what the Committee
    should consider as we look at reauthorizing these programs.
    Thank you for taking the time to appear before us today.
        Chairwoman Comstock, before I yield back, I ask--I want to
    ask unanimous consent to introduce into the record a letter
    from the Property Casualty Insurance Association of America in
    support of the SAFER grants program.
        Chairwoman Comstock. Without objection.
        [The information appears in Appendix II]
        Mr. Lipinski. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and in the last
    few seconds, I just want to say I was just in my district on
    Monday at the Lagrange Fire Department, and they just have been
    awarded a grant and they're telling me about how important that
    these grants are for assuring community safety, and again, I
    want to thank everyone who is here today, and thank you for
    your service to our country and all of our communities.
        I yield back.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Lipinski follows:]
        [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6238.005

        [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6238.006

        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you, and I now recognize the
    Ranking Member of the full Committee for a statement, Ms.
    Johnson.
        Ms. Johnson. Thank you very much, Chairwoman Comstock.
    Thank you for holding this hearing today.
        As the Committee considers reauthorization, it is helpful
    to exam the effectiveness and priorities of the U.S. Fire
    Administration, the Assistance to Firefighters Grant Program,
    and the Staffing for Adequate Fire and Emergency Response Grant
    program. I want to welcome all of our witnesses, and I
    appreciate them being here to share insights today.
        I'm pleased to announce earlier this year that the City of
    Duncanville, in my district, received a grant. As with other
    grant recipients, the award will help the Duncanville Fire
    Department in its efforts to protect the health and safety of
    the public and emergency response personnel.
        The availability of these funds is critical to many
    communities. Local fire departments respond to a myriad of
    hazards, from structural fires and automobile accidents, to
    wildfires, other natural disasters, and even terrorist attacks.
        Faring better than many other programs, the U.S. Fire
    Administration and the fire grants programs would remain flat
    funded under this Administration's fiscal year 2018 budget
    proposal. However, that budget request and the recent
    appropriations for these programs have fallen well below the
    authorized levels. In addition to providing fewer resources for
    training, purchasing life-saving equipment, and hiring enough
    firefighters to respond safely to emergencies, under-funding
    also affects Congress's ability to conduct oversight of these
    programs. When the agencies do not have proper funding to carry
    out the required studies and reports, we lack the data and
    feedback on the effectiveness of the programs. So I urge this
    Committee to continue to support authorization levels that
    acknowledge the significant demand for these important
    programs.
        This hearing is also an opportunity for us to review
    changes made to the programs since the last authorization. In
    2016, GAO reported that FEMA has incorporated a majority of the
    changes Congress required in 2012. However, GAO also
    recommended greater coordination between the Fire
    Administration and FEMA, as well as the establishment of
    clearer performance metrics for the grant programs.
        The agencies still have work to do to meet those
    recommendations. Coordination and collaboration among relevant
    agencies is key. For example, while wildfires are handled by
    the U.S. Forest Service, wildfires often approach and even hit
    populated areas. I am interested in hearing more about
    collaboration between federal agencies, state, tribal, and
    local jurisdictions in addressing wildland-urban interface
    fires.
        Finally, the fire service community relies on advances in
    fire-related scientific research and technological innovation,
    including communications technologies, protective gear and
    equipment, and firefighting tactics. I hope that Dr. Onieal and
    Dr. Horn, you will provide us with an update on fire-related
    research needs and any technology gaps that need addressing, as
    well as federal agency collaborations and university
    partnerships. The U.S. Fire Administration and the fire grants
    program provide critical resources to address the nation's
    emergency response challenges, and I look forward to hearing
    from the witnesses how Congress can ensure they have the
    support they need to assist the departments effectively across
    the nation. It is an important role that you play, and I hope
    to hear from you today.
        Thank you, and I yield back.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Johnson follows:]
        [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6238.007

        [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6238.008

        Chairwoman Comstock. We will introduce our witnesses. Our
    first today is Dr. Denis Onieal, Acting Administrator of the
    U.S. Fire Administration. He joined the Jersey City Fire
    Department in 1971 and rose through the ranks from firefighter
    to deputy chief, then acting chief in 1995, leading a uniformed
    force of 625 firefighter and officers. He was appointed
    Superintendent of the National Fire Academy in 1995. He holds a
    bachelor of science degree from New Jersey University, a
    master's degree in public administration from Fairleigh
    Dickinson University, and a doctor of education degree from
    NYU. He taught in the master and doctorate programs in
    education at NYU for five years, and has written numerous
    articles in the fire field.
        Our second witness today is Chief John Sinclair, President
    and Chair of the Board for the International Association of
    Fire Chiefs. He also serves as Fire Chief of the Kittitas
    Valley Fire and Rescue in Washington State. Prior to this
    position, Chief Sinclair served on the emergency medical
    services section where he was involved with major issues facing
    fire-based EMS. He currently represents the fire service on the
    National EMS Advisory Council. He has also worked with the
    American College of Surgeons Hartford Consensus I and II, as
    well as assisted with the Department of Homeland Security and
    Centers for Disease Control with their Bystander Response
    Project.
        Our third witness today is Captain John Niemiec, President
    of the Fairfax County, Virginia, Professional Fire Fighters and
    Paramedics, International Association of Fire Fighters. He is a
    22-year veteran of the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue
    Department. He also serves as an Executive Board Member of the
    National Conference on Public Employee Retirement Systems, the
    largest trade association dedicated to nonprofit public pension
    advocating. He earned his bachelor's degree in occupational
    safety and health from the National Labor College as well as a
    certificate of completion from the George Washington
    University's EMT/paramedic program.
        I now recognize Dr. Marshall to introduce our next witness.
        Mr. Marshall. Thank you, Chairwoman Comstock. I'm very
    honored to introduce our fourth witness today, Mr. Steve
    Hirsch. Steve is the first Chair of the National Volunteer Fire
    Council and a resident of the largest agriculture producing
    district in the country, the 1st District of Kansas. Steve
    served as the Training Officer for Sheridan County, Thomas
    County, and the Grinnell Fire Department of Kansas, and that's
    about 2,000 square miles as I remember having just been out
    there this past week doing some town halls. These are all 100
    percent volunteer fire departments. Mr. Hirsch served as the
    Secretary of the Kansas State Firefighters Association since
    2000 and also serves as the Country Attorney for Decatur
    County. He's a graduate of the one of the finest institutions
    in the land, Kansas State University, as well as Washburn Law
    School. I want to recognize his wife Anita, who's in the
    audience as well, and I'm very proud that I've delivered a
    couple of Anita's--I think they were both boys, weren't they
    nephews, or is it one of each? One of each. Okay. So it's been
    20 years ago, but there was one of each, so very proud that
    she's here and certainly understand what a sacrifice it is to
    let your husband go play these games. He's got to do all these
    weekend chores. My dad was in charge of the fire department in
    my hometown, and I trained many weekends with him training
    volunteers as well, and I hate to admit this, Steve, but I had
    to call on some of your friends' help one hot summer afternoon
    when I had a little prairie fire get out of control, and they
    sure saved my bacon, so I appreciate what you do, and of
    course, we just had 650,000 acres of wildfire in Kansas that
    destroyed over 5,000 head of cattle. So certainly saved
    hundreds from that fire and appreciate all that you guys do for
    us. Thanks.
        Chairwoman Comstock. Great. Now, our fifth witness today is
    Dr. Gavin Horn, Research Program Director for the Illinois Fire
    Service Institute. His research interests lie in the areas of
    firefighter health and safety research, first responder
    technology development, material testing and design, and non-
    destructive evaluation. He is a member of the Board of Trustees
    for the Fire Protection Research Foundation and currently
    serves as a Firefighter and Engineer with the Savoy Fire
    Department in Illinois. He received his Ph.D. in mechanical
    engineering from the University of Illinois at Urbana-
    Champaign.
        Our sixth witness today is Chief Butch Browning, President
    of the National Association of State Fire Marshals as well as
    the Louisiana State Fire Marshal. Over the past seven years, he
    has led the reorganization of the State Fire Marshal's Office
    to include cross training of personnel and the development of a
    modern data management system. Over the past 29 years, he has
    served at all levels of the fire service. He entered public
    service as a Sheriff's Deputy for East Baton Rouge Parish and
    later served as Fire Chief for the District 6 Fire Department
    in Baton Rouge and for the City of Gonzalez. He is a graduate
    of the National Fire Academy's Executive Fire Office program
    and is a nationally registered emergency medical technician.
        I now recognize Dr. Onieal for five minutes to present his
    testimony.

                     TESTIMONY OF DR. DENIS ONIEAL,

                         ACTING ADMINISTRATOR,

                   UNITED STATES FIRE ADMINISTRATION

        Dr. Onieal. Good morning, Madam Chair and Members of the
    Committee. My name is Dennis Onieal. I serve as the Acting
    United States Fire Administrator, responsible for managing the
    USFA, our programs, training and facilities at the National
    Emergency Training Center, and I'm pleased to talk to you this
    morning about the USFA.
        In a sentence, the USFA works to prevent local emergencies
    from becoming natural disasters, and to the extent that a
    community has a well-trained, well-led cadre of responders,
    that emergency stays local. Poorly handled or so large the
    local forces are overwhelmed, local emergencies become
    disasters, triggering state and federal response, assets and
    costs.
        Sometimes the emergency is of such initial magnitude that
    the local responders are overwhelmed, and when that happens,
    it's important that the local forces integrate with state and
    local agencies under the National Incident Management System.
    Poorly prepared local forces won't integrate well, resulting in
    increased loss of life and property, increased costs, and often
    criticism of federal response.
        The USFA supports the DHS and FEMA missions in four ways.
    We train mid- to senior-level fire officers and specialists; we
    collect and analyze incident data and provide information about
    the 25 million fire department responses a year; we develop and
    distribute fire prevention and public education programs; and
    we assist in research.
        There are several disturbing factors that I see affecting
    our nation and citizens over the next few decades. First, as
    you all pointed out, Americans are dying in fires, a little
    over 3,000 a year, and we work closely with all affected
    governments and groups to encourage the installation of
    sprinklers and smoke alarms, conduct inspections, and practice
    drills. But the methods and materials of construction are
    changing rapidly. Today's modern fire home is a perfect storm
    of conditions and outcomes--larger floor areas, increased fuel
    loads, and new construction materials. These result in faster
    spreads, shorter time to flashover, less time to escape, and
    more rapid collapse.
        Secondly, the Baby Boomers are hitting the local fire and
    emergency services response system. We have more than 30 years
    of data to show that senior citizens are the high-risk group
    for fires, the high-risk group for accidents, and the high-
    demand group for emergency medical services. The beginning of
    the Boomers are turning 71 this past January, and the trailing
    end turning 53, and their life expectancy is 85 years. We
    anticipate 32 more years of high demand for emergency services
    by our most vulnerable population.
        Thirdly, the wildland fire issue including the wildland-
    urban interface where civilization meets the forest is a
    growing problem. What once was seasonal is now perennial,
    beginning earlier and ending later each year. People are living
    in the WUI, and once a wildland fire starts within miles of
    their home, they're vulnerable. This is a nationwide issue from
    the East in Florida and Tennessee to the West in Utah, Arizona
    and California.
        Fourthly, fire departments are now an essential element in
    the response to active shooters. As a recent example, Chief
    Tammy Kaya was the first arriving fire chief officer at the
    Dallas police shooting. She continues to publicly state that
    her success in managing the medical response was the training
    that she received at the National Fire Academy.
        To address these four concerns, the NFA provides cutting-
    edge education and training to America's estimated 1.3 million
    firefighters. Courses are delivered in classrooms at the
    National Emergency Training Center in classrooms throughout the
    United States in cooperation with accredited state and local
    fire training agencies and colleges and universities. The NFA
    also has a robust system of online instructor-mediated and
    self-study courses.
        Our National Fire Data Center continues to modernize the
    National Fire Incident Reporting System browsing tool along
    with other web tool applications to improve the overall
    reliability, performance, ease of data entry, and
    administration by fire departments and state users. This
    modernization will allow users to access the NFIRS data
    warehouse to access, share and compare data.
        Finally, Madam Chair, I want to thank you and the
    Committee's generous gifts of time and interest, and I
    appreciate the opportunity to highlight the accomplishments of
    the Fire Administration and the hard work of our staff. Your
    continued support is instrumental as we work to make America
    fire safe. I'll be happy to answer any questions.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Onieal follows:]
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        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you.
        And I now recognize Chief Sinclair for five minutes to
    present his testimony.

                   TESTIMONY OF CHIEF JOHN SINCLAIR,

                   PRESIDENT AND CHAIR OF THE BOARD,

               INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIRE CHIEFS;

            FIRE CHIEF, KITTITAS VALLEY FIRE AND RESCUE (WA)

        Chief Sinclair. Good morning, Chairman Comstock, Ranking
    Member Lipinski, and Members of the Subcommittee. I am Chief
    John Sinclair, Fire Chief of the Kittitas Valley Fire and
    Rescue Department in Ellensburg, Washington. Today I testify as
    the President and Chairman of the Board of the International
    Association of Fire Chiefs. On behalf of the 12,000 members of
    the IAFC, I thank you for the opportunity to discuss the
    effectiveness of the Assistance to Firefighters Grant program
    including the SAFER grant program along with the U.S. Fire
    Administration.
        The role of America's fire and emergency service continues
    to evolve to cover new missions such as EMS, hazmat and
    terrorism response. The USFA and the AFG and SAFER grant
    programs are important partners in helping the nation's fire
    and emergency service meet this challenge. The AFG program was
    created by Congress in 2000 to help fire departments provide
    baseline emergency response for their communities. This FEMA
    program uses a highly respected merit-based peer-review process
    to evaluate grant applications and provide matching grants to
    local fire departments. The AFG program helps fire departments
    with equipment and training. The SAFER program helps fire
    departments meet staffing needs, and the Fire Prevention and
    Safety program supports fire prevention programs and research
    to promote firefighter and civilian fire safety.
        The AFG program has helped my department. Using AFG grants,
    KVFR purchased personal protective equipment and self-contained
    breathing apparatus for our firefighters. These purchases
    improved their safety and helped improve regional
    interoperability between local fire departments that eventually
    led to a merger, making a more effective and efficient response
    force.
        The SAFER grant program plays a vital role in helping local
    fire departments meet staffing needs. Besides providing
    matching grants for career firefighters, the SAFER grant
    program also provides grants for volunteer recruitment and
    retention. Approximately 70 percent of the nation's
    firefighters are volunteers. Nevertheless, fire departments
    face trouble recruiting and retaining volunteers who must
    balance firefighting and training requirements with job and
    family commitments. By partnering with state chiefs
    organizations in Virginia, Connecticut and Tennessee, the IAFC
    is working on SAFER-funded initiatives to help local fire
    departments recruit and retain volunteers. These programs
    include marketing campaigns and leadership training to help
    volunteer fire chiefs.
        I want to recognize Representative Esty for her assistance
    in a PSA helping with the Connecticut program. The Connecticut
    campaign led to 900 events, distributed 68,000 marketing
    materials, and resulted in 400 new volunteer firefighters. The
    Virginia campaign resulted in more than 1,100 applications in
    15 participating departments with 656 new members that came in.
        I would also like to highlight the life-saving research
    funded by the Fire Prevention and Safety Grant program. The
    IAFC's FSTAR program translates the research funded by these
    grants into actionable information that affects tactics on the
    fire ground, including fact sheets on fire dynamics, structural
    integrity and firefighter health to help fire departments
    improve their operations. The FSTAR program has also produced
    guidance to help doctors provide rigorous physicals to
    firefighters to reduce the number of strokes, heart attacks,
    and injuries.
        Despite the effectiveness of the AFG and SAFER programs,
    many fire departments still need assistance meeting basic
    staffing, equipment and training needs. We ask the Subcommittee
    to reauthorize AFG and SAFER programs. The IAFC endorsed Senate
    bill 829. This legislation would authorize funding for the AFG
    and SAFER grant programs through fiscal year 2023. Also, it
    removed the January 2, 2018, sunset date that would eliminate
    the programs. In addition, S. 829 would make technical and
    administrative changes to improve the program's efficiency and
    reduce waste, fraud, and abuse.
        I would also like to recognize Dr. Onieal and the important
    role that U.S. Fire Administration plays. The National Fire
    Academy is the West Point or Quantico of the fire and emergency
    services. Using both in-person and online training, NFA
    educates tens of thousands of fire service leaders every year
    about how to adapt to emerging issues and lead their
    departments better. We congratulate the President for
    appointing Chief Keith Bryant as the U.S. Fire Administrator.
        I ask that the Committee also reauthorize USFA this year.
    It is important that USFA continue to have dedicated funding.
    This funding should be used to continue to develop policy and
    guidance, revise curricula at the NFA, and maintain
    infrastructure and information technology. I also encourage the
    USFA to provide guidance to fire departments as they address
    behavioral health and wellness issues.
        I thank the Committee for the opportunity to testify at
    today's hearing. The AFG and SAFER programs and the USFA are
    important partners in helping local fire departments address an
    evolving all-hazards mission. On behalf of the nation's fire
    chiefs, I look forward to working with the Committee to
    reauthorize these critical programs. Thank you very much.
        [The prepared statement of Chief Sinclair follows:]
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        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you.
        And I now recognize Captain Niemiec for five minutes to
    present his testimony.

                   TESTIMONY OF CAPTAIN JOHN NIEMIEC,

                     PRESIDENT, FAIRFAX COUNTY (VA)

                       PROFESSIONAL FIRE FIGHTERS

                      AND PARAMEDICS-INTERNATIONAL

                ASSOCIATION OF FIRE FIGHTERS LOCAL 2068

        Captain Niemiec. Thank you, Chairwoman Comstock, Ranking
    Member Lipinski, yakshemash, and distinguished members of the
    Subcommittee. Good morning. My name is John Niemiec, and I am
    the President of the Fairfax County Professional Fire Fighters
    and Paramedics. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before
    you today on behalf of the International Association of Fire
    Fighters and over 305,000 firefighter and emergency medical
    personnel who serve in every Congressional district in this
    nation. I come before you today to offer my full support for
    the SAFE and FIRE grant programs and urge the Subcommittee to
    reauthorize these programs.
        SAFER and FIRE grants have proven themselves to be highly
    effective, allowing local fire departments to make significant
    progress in their baseline capabilities. According to the 2015
    needs assessment of the Fire Service by the National Fire
    Protection Association, SAFER and FIRE have helped local fire
    departments improve staffing, equipment and training levels.
    For example, 2010 to 2015, the number of fire departments
    serving midsized cities meeting safe staffing standards have
    increased by 25 percent. Such studies also show significant
    improvements in certain categories of personal protective
    equipment and training. For example, departments of all sizes
    have improved the percentage of personnel with Personal Alert
    Safety System, or PASS devices. In 2001, only 38 percent of
    fire departments equipped all responders on a shift with their
    own PASS device, a necessity to find injured or lost
    firefighter in an emergency. This figure jumped to 72 percent
    in 2015, a result NFPA speculates due to FIRE grant funding.
        Thousands of communities, large and small, across this
    nation have been aided by the SAFER and FIRE grant programs
    including my department, the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue
    Department. I have served the department for over 30 years and
    have seen firsthand the remarkable service delivery
    improvements we have achieved through both SAFER and FIRE. For
    example, Fairfax County received FIRE grants in 2015 and 2016
    to provide training to 54 advanced life support providers,
    upgrading their emergency medical skills and certification.
    These awards exclusively allowed our department to upgrade all
    frontline responding units to the paramedic level, allowing the
    county to deliver high-quality EMS care in a more timely
    manner.
        Fairfax County has also benefited from SAFER grants, which
    allowed the county to hire an additional 49 firefighters,
    improving response capabilities by staffing all 14 ladder
    trucks with four personnel. This staffing level has allowed the
    county to reduce risk for the citizens, minimize property loss,
    and increase firefighter safety.
        I am proud of the progress Fairfax County has made with the
    help of SAFER and FIRE grants, and many communities across
    America can say the same, yet despite the progress made in
    communities large and small, the need for funding through the
    SAFER and FIRE grant program persists. Many fire departments
    continue struggling to meet appropriate staffing, training and
    equipment standards. The 2015 NFPA needs assessment identified
    many of these weaknesses. For example, 49 of all departments
    have failed to formally train all of their personnel involved
    in structural firefighting. Fifty percent of departments
    operate without enough portable radios to equip all emergency
    responders on a shift, and 53 percent of departments could not
    equip all firefighters with self-containing breathing
    apparatus.
        As you know, work has begun in the Senate to reauthorize
    these critical grant programs. Recently, the Homeland Security
    and Governmental Affairs Committee unanimously approved Senate
    bill 829, the AFG and SAFER Program Reauthorization Act of
    2017. The bill is a simple reauthorization of SAFER and FIRE.
    It makes several minor but necessary technical corrections and
    eliminates a sunset provision on the programs. The IAFF and all
    major national fire service organizations have worked
    collectively with the Senators for many months to help craft
    this bill and have offered it our enthusiastic endorsement. We
    believe SAFER and FIRE have been refined over the many years
    the programs have been in place. The grants are working
    effectively and efficiently, and we do not recommend making
    major changes to the programs. As you well know, SAFER and
    FIRE's current authorization expires on September 30th of this
    year, and the programs are due to sunset on January 2, 2018.
    Therefore, I strongly encourage the Subcommittee to move
    swiftly to reauthorize SAFER and FIRE to reassure their
    continuance without interruption.
        Again, I'd like to thank the Subcommittee for the
    opportunity to testify today, and I'm happy to answer any
    questions you may have. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Captain Niemiec follows:]
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        Chairwoman Comstock. And we now recognize Mr. Hirsch for
    his testimony.

            TESTIMONY OF MR. STEVE HIRSCH, FIRST VICE CHAIR,

                    NATIONAL VOLUNTEER FIRE COUNCIL;

          TRAINING OFFICER, SHERIDAN COUNTY FIRE DISTRICT #1,

                    THOMAS COUNTY FIRE DISTRICT #4,

                   AND GRINNELL FIRE DEPARTMENT (KS)

        Mr. Hirsch. Thank you. My name is Steve Hirsch. I'm First
    Vice Chair of the National Volunteer Fire Council, which
    represents the interests of the nation's more than a million
    volunteer fire, EMS and rescue personnel. I'd like to thank the
    Subcommittee and especially my own Congressman, Dr. Marshall,
    for inviting me here to testify today about the need to
    reauthorize AFG and SAFER as well as the U.S. Fire
    Administration.
        I want to begin by highlighting the critical need for
    Congress to reauthorize AFG and SAFER prior to January 2nd. As
    the Committee's aware, there's a provision in the current law
    that eliminates those programs if they're not reauthorized
    before that date. This would be a severe blow to the nation's
    fire service and would put thousands of committees across the
    country at risk. If you take only one thing away from my
    testimony, it should be the need to move quickly to reauthorize
    those programs.
        My own Sheridan County Fire Department's been fortunate to
    receive grants for protective gear and hose, to replace a fire
    truck that was 50 years old, to buy a compressor to refill our
    air tanks without having to make a 60-mile round trip, for
    heavy-duty washing machines to keep our gear clean and
    eliminate carcinogens. Our neighboring departments use our
    washing machine and compressor, so the value of the program
    goes well beyond the benefit to our own department.
        I spend a lot of time teaching in all-volunteer fire
    departments across Kansas at least once a month, and I can tell
    you firsthand there's an overwhelming amount of need. Those are
    small towns with very small tax bases. How can a department
    with an annual budget of $10,000 ever hope to replace bunker
    gear at $3,000 a person? How can they hope to buy a new brush
    rig to fight wildfires? Well, they have that hope because of
    the AFG program.
        Recently, I called the widow of a firefighter in my
    community who died in the line of duty in 1967. The department
    at that time had no gear and no formal training. Carroll
    Ferguson was killed when a chimney fell on him as he was
    fighting a fire at a rural house in the county. The impact of
    that death continues to reverberate in our community 50 years
    later. Firefighters risk their lives every time they respond to
    a call, and the AFG program helps to minimize that danger by
    helping departments buy equipment and get training that they
    would otherwise not be able to afford.
        The NVFC strongly opposes changes in the authorization that
    would divert money away from the AFG program or from local fire
    departments. The competition for this funding is very intense.
    There are a lot of departments that are applying that are not
    being funded and a lot of need that's not being met. Any shift
    and changes out of the AFG program would only make things
    worse.
        The SAFER program helps to increase or maintain a number of
    firefighters in the United States. Ten percent of the SAFER
    funds go to recruit and retain volunteers. These help
    departments create marketing plans to recruit new volunteers
    and establish benefit programs and have other retention
    strategies to keep volunteers in the department.
        The volunteer fire service is changing because the
    country's changing, and that's why the SAFER program is
    critical. The traditional staffing model where children live
    and work in the same community where they grew up and follow
    their parents into the volunteer fire service is changing.
    Young folks are more mobile. Folks are moving out of rural
    communities to find work and commuting longer distances to and
    from work. There are more households in which both adults in
    the home have jobs, and of course, that disrupts the ability of
    the volunteer fire department to staff. We can't just sit back
    and wait for volunteers to come walking through our door. The
    SAFER gives local departments the tools to go out in the
    community and recruit folks to become volunteer firefighters.
        Our organization is also not seeking any major changes to
    the AFG or SAFER programs in the reauthorization. There are
    relative minor changes that we're seeking that are outlined in
    my written testimony.
        Finally, the U.S. Fire Administration provides training to
    more than 100,000 fire and emergency service personnel each
    year. The USFA also performs research and collects data
    specific to the fire service and educates the public on the
    importance of fire safety. It is our organization's belief that
    the U.S. Fire Administration does a great job given the
    resources available to them, and we're not seeking any changes
    to the current authorization.
        If you'll indulge me just a little bit for this farm boy
    volunteer firefighter from western Kansas, when you work this
    bill, when you talk with your colleagues, when you vote, I
    would implore you, in fact, I would beg you to think about
    Carroll Ferguson, who left his job at the meat counter of the
    local grocery store in June of 1967, never returning home. How
    much difference these programs could have made in that family's
    life had they had proper equipment and good training, and
    that's why these programs are so important. Even more so, I
    want you to think about who the person in that family who was
    the real hero, his widow, Marie, who was left without a husband
    and three very small children who didn't have a daddy any
    longer. These grant programs are helping keep volunteer
    firefighters alive without any doubt in my mind. Those are
    firefighters who don't get a paycheck. They do it because they
    love their fellow man.
        So thank you for your past support, thank you for listening
    to me, and thank you for helping keep our firefighters alive by
    supporting these programs.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Hirsch follows:]
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        Chairwoman Comstock. I now recognize Dr. Horn to present
    his testimony.

                      TESTIMONY OF DR. GAVIN HORN,

                       RESEARCH PROGRAM DIRECTOR,

                    ILLINOIS FIRE SERVICE INSTITUTE

        Dr. Horn. Chairman Comstock, Ranking Member Lipinski, and
    Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to
    participate in this important hearing.
        As part of the larger discussion, I would like to focus my
    comments specifically on the American research enterprise that
    is supporting the fire safety of the nation through a component
    of the AFG grants, specifically, the Fire Prevention Safety
    Grant program. Between fiscal year 2011 and fiscal year 2015, a
    little over $170 million has been awarded from the Fire
    Prevention program, approximately $33 million of which has been
    devoted to the research and development activities, which I'll
    refer to as R&D.
        A little over $6.5 million and six projects per year have
    been supported between fiscal year 2011 and 2015, a significant
    reduction from fiscal year 2006 to fiscal year 2010 where an
    average of nearly $10 million was awarded for over 11 projects
    per year.
        While a relatively small component of the overall AFG
    program, the fire prevention safety R&D activities are unique
    in that they support national programs, which strengthen local
    fire departments' ability to utilize the larger AFG and SAFER
    programs. Indeed, this is the only program, only national
    funding program specifically devoted to enhancing the health,
    safety and effectiveness of firefighters through projects such
    as the one that you'll see on the video screen that's going to
    play behind me.
        The fire service is in desperate need of federal funding to
    advance research projects that support evidence-based policies
    to address longstanding issues in this dangerous occupation. At
    the same time, the risks, the hazards are evolving as the fire
    service responds to new operational realities and new
    operational missions.
        A variety of organizations and stakeholders developed a
    series of needs analysis and research agenda to support fire
    departments in the face of this changing risk profile.
    Documents such as Project Responder and Interagency Board
    Priority List along with firefighter-centric needs analysis
    produced by stakeholders and partners--the National Fallen
    Firefighters Foundation, the Fire Protection Research
    Foundation--in addition to specific word by NIST, their
    research roadmap for smart firefighting and NFPA's United
    States Fire Service Needs analysis, quite important snapshots
    of the American fire service which I review in my written
    testimony.
        However, these documents are importantly reviewed very
    regularly and updated by the fire service stakeholders
    themselves, often with the research community. In each funding
    cycle for the Fire Prevention Safety grants, they provide
    invaluable support as the voice of the fire service to guide
    investments made by the AFG in this area.
        Stated bluntly, the Fire Prevention Safety R&D grant
    program is absolutely vital for a broad-based, action-oriented
    federal research program focused on the needs of the fire
    community, one that provides incredibly high impact for fire
    departments across the country with relatively small
    investment. Largely due to the recent Fire Prevention Safety-
    supported research projects, significant advancements have had
    a direct and profound impact on the fire service. Our
    understanding of the hazards associated with structural
    firefighting, the need for appropriate staffing levels,
    effective and efficient tactics, and cardiovascular risks
    associated with firefighting have all had dramatically
    increased understanding due to the focused research support by
    this R&D program. We must continue to be evaluated as our
    landscape continues to evolve.
        Our understanding of the chemical and toxic exposure that a
    firefighter faces is beginning to come into focus, and our
    understanding of the post-traumatic stress impact is just now
    developing, and risks from outside the traditional response
    theater including violent incidents and changing costs related
    to drug--to the drugs are driving demand for changes in
    protection beyond the traditional formal considerations. And
    the world around us begins to embrace smart technologies and
    internet of things, we too are learning how to leverage this
    cyber physical infrastructure to improve our capabilities and
    our effectiveness.
        Impacting these areas, the R&D program has had significant
    broader impacts. It's driven an increase in scientific
    literature focused on the firefighter themselves. Dr. Sara
    Jahnke from the National Development Research Institute did an
    analysis and showed that almost 70 percent of all articles that
    are referenced on the PubMed index with the term
    ``firefighter'' come from after the advent of R&D funding over
    the past ten years, 70 percent. It changes in a way academic
    researchers interact with the fire service have driven drastic
    improvement in the research to practice protocol. As a result,
    there are specific and focused efforts that have influenced a
    wide range of standards and policies across the country from
    PPE manufacturing to fire ground tactics, to health and safety
    practices, to purchasing decisions. Research is impacting
    practice. And this research has included broader impacts well
    beyond the fire service, adding to the state of science in many
    disciplines that support the fire service.
        So while the Fire Prevention Safety program has been
    successful in supporting the evolving needs of the fire
    service, there's important opportunities that could lead to
    even greater reach of this program, which I detail in my
    written testimony, but a couple important points.
        Considering the high benefit-to-cost ratio, it would be
    appropriate to restore funding and award rates at the levels at
    fiscal year 2006 to fiscal year 2010 at a very minimum. It is
    also important to look at different funding mechanisms,
    providing for longer duration funding mechanisms which would
    allow longitudinal projects such as a five-year-plus potential
    for five more years of renewal would allow research to use the
    strongest research design available which will allow even
    greater scientific rigor and further increase credibility of
    the program.
        There's been discussion for years of funding centers of
    excellence through the Fire Prevention Safety program, and
    there's now a broad discipline--broad-based transdisciplinary
    group that can support that work and benefit from that.
        It's also important to continue to fund an increase of
    visibility for exploratory projects that can help lead the fire
    service's understanding of some of the risks that we face on
    the fire ground.
        In summary, the Fire Prevention Safety Grant and
    particularly the R&D program is a relatively small component of
    the AFG activity but it has a broad national impact. It informs
    the conversation held by many of the fire service organizations
    sitting here. It supports fire service local departments by
    empowering improved purchasing decisions to the AFG grant
    program, better understanding of manpower requirements through
    SAFER, and informed development of local policies, procedures
    and practices based on the best science available.
        Thank you very much for the opportunity and welcome any
    questions at the appropriate time.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Horn follows:]
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        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you.
        And I now recognize Chief Browning for five minutes.

             TESTIMONY OF CHIEF H. ``BUTCH'' BROWNING, JR.,

                    PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION

                        OF STATE FIRE MARSHALS,

                      LOUISIANA STATE FIRE MARSHAL

        Chief Browning. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. It's indeed an
    honor to be here. I'm Butch Browning. I'm the Louisiana State
    Fire Marshal and I'm currently president of the National
    Association of State Fire Marshals. Over my left shoulder is
    the Virginia State Fire Marshal, Brian McGraw. I appreciate his
    attendance and support here today.
        The National Association of State Fire Marshals represents
    the senior state officials in every state, so it's a small
    group of 50 people who work very hard in their states to
    support their local fire departments, primarily drive fire
    prevention programs, fire investigation programs, and data
    programs, and I'll talk a little bit about that in a minute.
        We want to make no doubt about it. The National Association
    of State Fire Marshals fully support the reauthorization of the
    AFG, the SAFER, and the Fire Prevention and Safety grants. In
    addition, as a personal product of the National Fire Academy,
    I'll you it is the West Point or any other higher, most
    prestigious institution you can think of. What it does for our
    state and the people who go to that who have no opportunities
    in many cases to get leadership training is just phenomenal,
    and I certainly appreciate what they've done for my life, and
    you know, I just come before you as an old Louisiana boy, a
    south Louisiana boy, not north Louisiana, and your temperatures
    here remind me of being home. But I've just got to tell you,
    people are alive today, firefighters and citizens, in part to
    this entire grant program, and the gentlemen who are sitting up
    here today have seen many, many circumstances of death and
    loss, and you know, what I encourage you to do, and I think
    you're doing that, I encourage you to look into the eyes of
    your firefighters in your districts because you will hear real
    stories of domestic defenders, and I appreciate that.
        At 14 years old, I got involved in the volunteer fire
    service and found it to be my passion, moved up the ranks,
    became a fire chief. About 6 months before Hurricane Katrina,
    we had an AFG grant in the hopper for interoperability, which
    we didn't have those radios when Katrina came. We were awarded
    those radios months after, and our department was then ready to
    handle disasters, and those radios would have never been
    purchased had it not been for the AFG program. The staffing of
    firefighters across this country is phenomenal. We have to keep
    those things up. And of course, the fire prevention and safety.
        What I didn't tell you about me is what got me into this
    business. When I was three years old, I was significantly
    burned in a fire. My dad subsequently joined the volunteer fire
    department and put me in the position that I'm in today. The
    story is what caused my fire was prior to codes and standards
    when water heaters were not 18 inches off the ground. Today
    they are. So I'll tell you fire prevention and safety have
    saved many children's lives, and I certainly respect that and
    appreciate that.
        I come before you today representing the National Fire
    Marshals asking that we change the percentage that goes to fire
    prevention and safety. See, we believe that we need to move
    some funds from the open competition. We need to remove eight
    percent into fire prevention and safety to not only get more
    fire prevention and safety but to provide statewide support to
    what we do. You know, in the State of Louisiana, we had an
    operation Save a Life program. We've installed almost 35,000
    smoke alarms across the state. In its first year, 12 people's
    lives were saved. These alarms were installed by small, large
    and medium fire departments across the state, so we know it
    works. We know that saving lives is important. We know that
    fire prevention safety and data. We know that fire suppression
    forces, and we know that fire investigation and analysis is the
    way for us to protect the American fire problem.
        I'm going to leave you because I want to be brief, and it's
    kind of on the heels of Mr. Hirsch's story of Mr. Ferguson, who
    paid the ultimate sacrifice. This past Sunday, I had to give
    the eulogy to yet another Louisiana firefighter who gave their
    lives serving their community, a firefighter who was responding
    to a structure fire, and the firefighter didn't make it. He was
    involved in a horrific accident in the fire apparatus, and I
    had to look into the eyes of that family, and what I'll tell
    you that family's telling you today is that we need more
    equipment, we need more firefighters, we need more prevention
    and safety. Those three things working together will go a long
    way in reducing America's fire problem, and we can rewind to
    America burning. We can rewind to before we had some of the
    fire prevention programs and before we had some of the better
    training for firefighters and see that we made some great
    headway. This investigation works.
        So I come to you in partnership, I come to you in thanks,
    and I look forward to this process.
        [The prepared statement of Chief Browning follows:]
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        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you. Great.
        And I now recognize myself for five minutes for questions.
        As a longtime resident of Fairfax County, I recognize that
    I've had some of the concerns that you identified on structures
    and hazardous materials and all the things that we need to be
    dealing with, and that's why I'm very interested in the
    Firefighter Cancer Registry Act that we've worked on together,
    and thank you for your efforts on highlighting that issue.
        How are we able to use technology both in that area as well
    as some of these other areas like, for example when you're
    going into a structure, what technologies do we have now that
    might help to better identify where we're going in keeping in
    touch with everyone. You mentioned the PASS devices that will
    help. But also things like some of the technology we're using
    to develop lighter materials that people will have on to
    protect themselves as well as lighter and more refined and
    better materials for breathing apparatus so that you'll be both
    protected but also long-term health consequences. So what
    breakthroughs are you seeing there and how can these grants
    help in those areas? I will start with Captain Niemiec but
    welcome you all to answer.
        Mr. Lipinski and I are on the Science Committee so very
    interested in how we can--and I've certainly seen this in my
    departments, the new technology and the real promise of both
    making safer communities but making life easier for our
    firefighters. I mean, it's never easy but safer.
        Captain Niemiec. First and foremost, Madam Chair, I will
    say, you know, through the education, through the prevention--
    and we have always taken the mantra in Fairfax County of
    preventing the 911 call, but how does that relate to the
    firefighters and paramedics in Fairfax County? Last week,
    several of my colleagues here met and were engaged and involved
    in a program called Wellness Fitness Initiative, and part of
    that program is doing just that, is looking at the wellness,
    looking at the prevention, and then should one of these
    firefighters or paramedics come down with a cancer, with, you
    know, cardiac disease, we want to set that standard so that
    that individual is able to, one, get back on the rig, and then
    to have the ability to have good quality of life. So we are
    setting those standards. That of course is coupled with the
    equipment that we currently have. That's where one, the SAFER,
    dealing with individuals, dealing with personnel, and then as
    far as the FIRE grant, dealing with things, and because of
    these items, in Fairfax County we have been able to get from
    the AFG, we have been able to do a lot of the prevention, and
    then if a firefighter, if a firefighter is involved in an
    emergency situation, not only are we able to provide the
    training but we have the necessary tools to ensure that that
    firefighter or firefighters gets out alive.
        Chairwoman Comstock. And others? I'm particularly
    interested in any sort of new devices that you can show us that
    I'd like to be able to demonstrate to my colleagues as we're
    advocating more need for this. The more things that we can put
    in your hands and technology in that way, sometimes that's a
    very vivid way to demonstrate if people can see how this will
    make your lives and your jobs safer.
        Chief Sinclair. Yes. Thank you very much, Chairwoman
    Comstock, for the question.
        The first thing that I want to do is make sure that we
    recognize that a significant amount of information has been new
    to the fire service over the last couple of years since the
    research has come in. A lot of that has to do with the health
    of the firefighters. A significant doctrinal shift is ongoing
    right now in the fire service as it relates to transitional
    attacks, the way that we actually attack fires, because of what
    we now know due to the research being done by Dr. Horn and NIST
    and NIOSH that we're not pushing fire like we previously
    thought, that we can actually hit it defensively and then
    transition into an offensive attack where we go inside, because
    once you knock the fire down from the outside and then
    transition to an interior attack, it is safer for the
    firefighters.
        Our modern home has been plasticized, and as those
    materials burn, they create these aromatic hydrocarbons that
    attach to the skin. In the video that you saw, you saw them
    wiping down, doing gross decon of the firefighters, and we know
    that 54 percent of those can be taken off the skin in the gross
    decon but that means that 46 percent of that cancer-causing
    aromatics will still remain on the firefighters' skin.
        So relative to new technology, we just are beginning to see
    the governors opt in to FirstNet, which is the public safety
    broadband trust, and we will soon be having communications
    equipment that will be providing information to incident
    commanders, something like a recognized phone that has data
    streams and data elements. We should be able to have wearable
    technology whereby we will be able to find the X, Y and Z
    coordinates for every firefighter that is on the scene. All of
    that is being done in cooperation with these types of grants,
    this type of information, and we're just right on the cusp of
    seeing a lot of things that are coming down the road in the
    next couple of years. Thank you.
        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you, and I see that I'm out of
    time, but I would invite any of you to share any of that
    information with the Committee so that we can, as we're doing
    our job of advocating for these grants, really draw that
    picture for our colleagues. Thank you.
        Now I recognize Mr. Lipinski.
        Mr. Lipinski. Thank you.
        Captain Niemiec, dzien dobre, and I'm not going to push my
    Polish any more than that.
        Chief Browning, you had mentioned that you had said we
    should look in the eyes of our firefighters, first responders,
    and learn about what they're doing, and I want to thank all of
    you for--you know, we are here to do that. We do that back in
    home districts. I know I certainly do, and appreciate the work
    that you do, and we are here to help you better do that work
    beyond the front line.
        I want to ask Dr. Horn about some things, more things that
    may be helpful to get this research out there to the frontline.
    As you know, research and development is really a system of
    feedback loops between fundamental research, development, and
    then deployment. You discussed the research of practice needs
    and opportunities in your testimony, and also discussed the
    need for a dedicated pot of funding for applied research needs
    because agencies such as NSF and NIH primarily support basic
    research. Please elaborate on the need for the Fire Prevention
    and Safety grant program and how it helps in translating
    research to the standards and tools used in the fire service
    community, and what more can be done to translate research into
    practice including through increased partnerships between
    researchers and firefighting organizations.
        Dr. Horn. Thank you very much for that question. It's a
    very important question because the research dollars are
    difficult to come by and need to be allocated in the most
    effective manner possible. The AFG through the Fire Prevention
    Safety Research and Development grants ties the fire service
    into the grants from the very beginning of the process. So I
    mentioned a series of needs analysis and research agenda that
    exists, and those are all put together by the fire service.
    Various different aspects of the fire ground are considered and
    focused on that research agenda but those drive the grants that
    are being funded by the Fire Prevention Safety program.
        So the funding itself is actually driven by the needs of
    the fire service, and those needs are very often not focused on
    the applied research, getting some technology, getting some
    technique, informing policies, informing practices much like
    Chief Sinclair just mentioned, informing practice based on
    science, looking at tactics based on scientific principles.
    These are things that aren't easily funded through National
    Science Foundation and NIH because it's a tactical priority yet
    we can now make our firefighters safer, help them to make
    better decisions by looking at the broader understanding of the
    tactics that we are using in order to address these problems.
        So the fire service is setting the priorities for each of
    these grants. What's also very unique about this program is
    that the fire service sits at the table. The firefighters
    themselves are reviewing each of these grants compared to those
    priorities and indicating whether or not that is fundable from
    a firefighter-specific perspective, and it goes to a scientific
    review process. Few other grant programs have that dual role,
    dual bosses for the project. So the firefighters themselves
    will not get to the scientific review unless it does have some
    strong fire service review.
        And then throughout these projects, the research-to-
    practice avenue has been incredibly--because firefighters
    become parts of each these projects. Advisory boards on all
    these projects usually involve fire service from across the
    country, east to west, north to south, from firefighters to
    fire chiefs, and they help guide the programs. The Fire
    Protection Research Foundation does a great job for departments
    or different agencies that don't have contacts or direct access
    to national fire service. They help put together an advisory
    board for those so that the data becomes vetted through that
    group before it goes out to the fire service themselves. So the
    fire service is involved in this program from start to finish,
    and as a result, it directly translates to standards. It
    directly translates to policies, and increase in the change in
    some of the technologies have been discussed, and we could talk
    about many more from Chairwoman Comstock's question are being
    developed because of the research that has the fire service at
    the table from the very beginning.
        Mr. Lipinski. Thank you. Very quickly, Dr. Onieal, how does
    the Fire Administration make sure you're leveraging the
    relevant research work of other federal agencies such as DHS,
    Science and Technology Directorate, NIST engineering lab, and
    the National Science Foundation?
        Dr. Onieal. Thank you for the question, Mr. Lipinski. We
    work very closely. We have staff that works with all of those
    different agencies. We more or less serve as technical experts.
    We give the information back to the fire and emergency services
    through our distribution outlets, and that's typically--they'll
    all us up all the time and they'll give us an opportunity to
    participate. So we more or less serve as technical experts on
    whatever research is being done.
        Mr. Lipinski. All right. Thank you very much, and I yield
    back the balance of my time.
        Chairwoman Comstock. And I now recognize Mr. Banks.
        Mr. Banks. Thank you, Chairwoman Comstock, for organizing
    today's hearing, and thanks to each of you for being here as
    well to testify before Congress about the importance of these
    grant programs as we debate the reauthorization of many of
    them, and also thanks for the hard work that you do to serve
    our local communities.
        Despite living in a time where fire prevention technology
    is more advanced than ever, it is unfortunate to hear that
    incidents of fire, property losses to fire and deaths caused by
    fire are increasingly common. This month alone, the Fort Wayne
    Fire Department in my district has already logged roughly 73
    fire-related incidents ranging from passenger vehicle fires,
    cooking or equipment fires, and various smoke scares across
    Allen County, the largest county in the 3rd District of
    Indiana. Many of these incidents happen in the early hours of
    the morning when detection isn't as responsive. For example,
    had firefighters not immediately responded to an automated
    alarm at 2:22 a.m. last week, my district could have lost its
    historic public library in Auburn, Indiana. The quick
    cooperation of citizens, fire detection technologies, and law
    enforcement in the aftermath of this incident confined damage
    mainly to the first floor rather than the entire structure.
        Awareness of fire prevention practices and FIRE grant
    program funding protects and benefits just about every Hoosier
    in my district in some way, shape or form. Reauthorizing these
    programs is crucial to keeping both people and property safe
    back home in Indiana, so I look forward to learning more about
    what priorities to consider moving forward from each of you.
        My first question is to Chief Browning. I received a letter
    last week from your colleague in my home state, Indiana Fire
    Marshal Jim Greeson. He expressed his support for your proposal
    to increase the funding allocation for fire prevention and
    safety and the FIRE Act grants program. He cites, for example,
    that with one of these grants in the State of Indiana, he was
    able to purchase 1,200 smoke alarms for the deaf and hard of
    hearing. This seems like a worthwhile effort, but do states
    share the results of research and programs with other states to
    assure best practices and the effective use of funding? Is
    there a process to check if such efforts are successful in
    meeting the program goals of reducing fire deaths and injuries?
        Chief Browning. Yes, sir, and thank you for that question.
    He's absolutely correct, and I think the role of the state fire
    marshals are to partner with their local fire service and
    responders to provide programs just as that. We know early
    detection, as you stated, is one of the fundamental methods of
    getting people out of a building and provide free and clear and
    quick egress while firefighters are responding to suppress that
    fire. So programs such as early detection, such as education,
    such as research are exactly what the Fire Prevention and
    Safety program does, and you'll see many successes across the
    country that are shared.
        You know, I could remember when the 9-volt battery smoke
    alarm first came out on the market. I was actually pretty young
    then, even though they've been out a long time. I can remember
    when they came out on the market, and people didn't want them.
    They were scared. I remember testifying before the Louisiana
    legislature in 1991 to make that a requirement at the sale of
    homes because we knew people were dying before firefighters
    could get there, and it was the hardest thing in the world to
    pass. Today if you don't have a smoke alarm in your home, you
    understand that that's just as important as all of other
    necessities in your home, and what you're seeing now is the
    upgrade to the ten-year lithium battery sealed alarms because
    now when firefighters go in the homes and install these alarms,
    they know there's ten years of protection, not 9 months or 12
    months of a 9-volt battery.
        Mr. Banks. Very good.
        As a follow-up to Dr. Horn, you specifically state in your
    testimony that one of the most encouraging trends in the FP&S
    R&D programs is the high degree of collaboration among
    researchers investigating health and safety concerns among
    firefighters. Can you elaborate on how this collaboration takes
    place and particularly how knowledge and research is shared on
    the state and local level?
        Dr. Horn. Thank you very much for that question. This is a
    multidisciplinary, basically a transdisciplinary research
    program that has developed as a result of the nearly ten years
    of funding through the Fire Prevention and Safety R&D programs.
    The studies such as the video that was just displayed earlier
    have gone from a single topic to really trying to understand
    the fire service response in holistic perspective,
    understanding the changes in protection from one aspect such as
    increasing protection from the carcinogens, the chemicals on
    the fire ground can have impacts on other aspects such as
    increased heat stress and cardiovascular strain on the fire
    ground.
        So the studies such as the one you saw there includes
    individuals who have expertise in all of those areas where we
    have cardiovascular research experts from New York, from UIC as
    well as from Illinois, industrial hygienists who focus on
    chemical exposures from NIOSH as well as Underwriter Labs, who
    has studied the fire ground environment in the most complete
    manner possible. So this transdisciplinary group is necessary
    to be able to look at this from a higher level to be able to
    understand the tradeoffs in protection from one aspect to the
    other and how we can minimize or optimize that tradeoff there,
    and that has been an outgrowth, a direct outgrowth of this R&D
    program which has brought firefighter-related research together
    in this one area.
        Mr. Banks. Thank you.
        Yield back.
        Mr. Abraham. [Presiding] Thank you. Ms. Esty, five minutes.
        Ms. Esty. Thank you very much. I want to thank our Chairman
    and Ranking Member for this very important hearing we're having
    today, and I really want to thank the six of you for your
    service and what you represent for firefighters across the
    country. Chief Sinclair, as you noted, I've worked very closely
    with the firefighters in Connecticut where we have 80 percent
    of our departments are staffed by volunteers. Eighty percent of
    all our firefighters are volunteers. I have a lot of small,
    rural communities, and they absolutely depend on these
    programs. They're completely vital. A town of 4,000 or 3,000
    people can't possible afford to provide the protection for, as
    you say, Captain Niemiec, and several of you have mentioned,
    somebody got up in the middle of the night and puts their life
    on the line to save their neighbor, and we can't thank them
    enough. So first, thank you for all you do.
        I wanted to highlight again what Chief Sinclair noted about
    the utter importance of supporting through these grants
    volunteer recruitment and retainment. In Connecticut, we figure
    that saved us $18 million. One of my best staffers left me
    because his lifelong dream was to become a firefighter. But in
    Connecticut, he has to pay $1,000 for the training to even take
    the test. That's gone up substantially. So to even have the
    opportunity to take the test, young men and young women are
    having to pony up themselves, and that's just wrong, and these
    grants are vital to keeping our communities safe.
        I wanted to turn a moment, Dr. Horn, to something that you
    talked about, this being the Science Committee, and about the
    research, but I think a lot of times we think about fancy new
    equipment and certainly the materials technology and some of
    that research is actually being done, and my district in Avon,
    Connecticut, provides some of the best reflective material
    that's used to keep firefighters safe around the country. But
    the importance of practices and techniques of training, again,
    because so many of our firefighters are volunteers, can you
    talk a little bit more about the importance of that training
    that otherwise isn't getting done? And then what, if anything,
    we can do to disseminate that information because, again, the
    best research in the world if it stays in the can or is in a
    manual that nobody looks at is not going to save the lives that
    we need to save so that they can go out and continue to save
    those of others. Again, thanks very much.
        Dr. Horn. Yeah, absolutely. It's a great question, and an
    area that a specific focus of this research and development
    program is getting information out to the fire service. But let
    me take a couple steps back and actually discuss something that
    was brought up by Chief Sinclair, and that is the practices. An
    avenue that we have really started to look at is understanding
    tactics, how the actions that we take on the fire ground can
    change the risk profile for the occupants of the structure as
    well as the victim, and some of these things are very tightly
    held tactics that have gone through many years, have worked
    successfully for those departments. So we need to understand
    the impact of changing a tactic but the impact of changing a
    tactic in my department will be very different than in Fairfax
    County. So we need to provide information on what can be done
    and how that broadly translates across the country because it
    has to be implemented locally. A department that has two
    members run it is very different than a department that has six
    members and five more apparatus coming behind. So we're trying
    to provide information that can be broadly translated but also
    is widely available as well as generalizable to the different
    realities and the local jurisdictions.
        One of the great ways of being able to do that is through
    the internet. A lot of online programming is freely available
    as a result of this project, the project you saw on the video.
    We are right now working on a toolkit that should be available
    by the end of the year free for any department to get online to
    have access to that information, what does it mean, the
    tactical considerations, the policy considerations, but then
    access all the way down to the actual scientific academic peer-
    reviewed data if they're interested in that. Most fire
    departments probably care about the how. So those tactics can
    have an impact.
        We often rely on our personal protective equipment and some
    tools to provide protection for us but in many ways we look at
    it from a hierarchy control. That should be one of the last
    levels that we're focusing on. If we can avoid that, that's
    what we're looking at. There are, though--to answer Chairwoman
    Comstock's question, there are technologies being funded by
    Fire Prevention and Safety to look at things such as
    particulate measurements on the fire ground because the tools
    that we have right now don't do a good enough job to tell us
    when it is safe to take off our SCBA, for instance. So it's
    coming, it's broad-based, and it's focused because of this type
    of program.
        Ms. Esty. Again, I see my time is running out, but I want
    to say again how important this is because, again, especially
    our rural communities but frankly our cash-strapped cities like
    mine in Waterbury--I reached out to my fire departments over
    the last couple of days, and every single of them said they
    absolutely depend on these grants. They could not possibly
    staff their departments or provide the protective equipment
    that they need without this, especially when we see a lot of
    constrained state and local budgets. So having those resources
    at the federal level available to Americans across the country
    is incredibly important, and again, I want to thank the six of
    you for your service, please thank your departments, and I
    appreciate your helping in making--helping us make that case to
    our colleagues so we get this reauthorized at a higher
    appropriate level back to the levels it should have been at to
    help keep Americans safe. Thanks, all, very much.
        Mr. Abraham. Dr. Marshall, five minutes.
        Mr. Marshall. Thank you, Chairman.
        Mr. Hirsch, a couple questions. What are the most critical
    needs that we face in northwest Kansas for your fire
    departments? What are your most critical needs?
        Mr. Hirsch. Congressman, clearly the awareness, the safety
    culture that has changed in the fire service from 1963 when my
    father started in the volunteer fire service to 1987 when I
    started, 2017 has changed dramatically, and a lot of that has
    come because of the research projects that have been done. But
    I think we can never forget the fact that there are basic needs
    that are still not being met in rural fire departments out in
    our state. There are still departments that are borrowing gear
    from other departments. A department will replace their gear
    and transfer it to another department, gear that probably
    should be out of service but it's better than what they had.
    Departments that have 50- or 60-year-old trucks, departments
    that have 40-year-old hose, departments that don't have SCBAs
    to be able to do an aggressive interior fire attack to save
    lives. There are a lot of basic needs out there that still have
    not been met. There are departments in Kansas that still have
    dirt floors in their fire station. It's just a fact of life,
    and they are small departments. They don't have a very large
    tax base. These programs are just invaluable, and they're
    invaluable to saving volunteer firefighters' lives.
        Mr. Marshall. How would the USFA or the Fire Safety grant
    programs help with those types of needs?
        Mr. Hirsch. Well, clearly, at least in the northwest part
    of the state where I live, there are countless departments that
    have gotten grants to pay for that type of equipment, but I
    will tell you that over the past 10 to 15 years, the amount of
    money that's been appropriated into these programs has declined
    markedly, and so we're--a lot of departments in Kansas were
    getting grants 15 years ago. There aren't very many today
    because the competition is so stiff and the funding is so
    small.
        Mr. Marshall. Let's kind of follow up on the grant process.
    I assume that you're the person that writes these grants?
        Mr. Hirsch. In my department, yes, and for a lot of my
    neighbors too.
        Mr. Marshall. How is that process going, or what challenges
    do you have in the grant process writing?
        Mr. Hirsch. Writing the grants are not difficult. I've also
    been on the other side and reviewed grants with the fire
    administration. It's made up of a peer process where
    firefighters actually get a chance to review grant applications
    from other departments. That also helps you write your own
    grants when it comes around too. But I'll tell you that a lot
    of these volunteer fire chiefs, they've got lives, they have
    jobs, and that becomes very difficult for them to commit the
    amount of time. The grant process, the application process, is
    not that difficult but it does take some time. It takes a
    commitment of time. They're already committing a lot of time
    and, frankly, committing a lot of their money to protecting
    their communities, and it's difficult. It's difficult, and
    especially I think with the decrease in the funding over time,
    after you've applied for a grant a time or two or three and
    you're not awarded anything, then you get discouraged and you
    give up.
        Mr. Marshall. I think my next question's for Dr. Onieal.
    What is the USFA doing in specialized training specifically,
    for rural voluntary fire departments?
        Dr. Onieal. The specific training that we provide to rural
    departments, believe it or not, occurs at every state. So if we
    talk about your state, Kansas, the state fire training system
    there and the state director delivers National Fire Academy
    training throughout the state. I was out there last year. I
    spoke at a statewide conference, and they're just simply doing
    a terrific job. The advantage to those firefighters is that
    when they do that, they're registered in the National Fire
    Academy database, which means that their credential is carried
    wherever they go. If they move to a different department or
    even a different state, that credential carries with them.
        All the National Fire Academy courses are reviewed by the
    American Council on Education for college credit
    recommendation. They can transfer some of that credit into
    their college degree programs, and all of them also--well, the
    online courses that they're available--are reviewed by the
    International Association for Continuing Education and Training
    and they receive CEUs. So through the state training system and
    classroom training and through the National Fire Academy's
    online----
        Mr. Marshall. What's unique, though, for the rural
    training? What is more specifically the process?
        Dr. Onieal. Okay. I'm going to ask to get back to you, and
    I'll give you a full list of the courses that we have available
    to you for the rural fire service.
        Mr. Marshall. Mr. Hirsch, maybe you can answer what's more
    specific towards rural training?
        Mr. Hirsch. Frankly, I don't know that there's a whole lot
    of difference between rural and urban firefighting. We don't
    have--we have high rises; they're grain elevators. But we're
    still fighting house fires. We're still trying to extricate
    people from wrecks. We're still handling EMS calls and hazmat
    calls. The training is similar across the lines whether you're
    rural, suburban or metro.
        Mr. Marshall. Okay. I yield back. Thank you.
        Mr. Abraham. Thank you, Dr. Marshall.
        Ms. Bonamici, five minutes.
        Ms. Bonamici. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Ranking
    Member, for holding this important hearing, and thank you to
    each and every one of you for being here today and for the
    important work you do.
        Like so many of my colleagues, I have been and continue to
    be a strong supporter of the FIRE and SAFER grant programs, and
    I know that numerous fire departments in the district I
    represent in Oregon, particularly the volunteer departments,
    rely on those funds to fulfill critical needs.
        The district I represent, Chief Sinclair might be familiar
    with it, is bordered by miles and miles and miles of the mighty
    Columbia River, and on Monday, just this past Monday, I had the
    opportunity to meet with the Maritime Fire and Safety
    Association, which is a wonderful collaborative organization
    with our neighbors to the north on the other side of the river.
    It was formed after the tragic death of a Coast Guard man and
    the critical injury of a firefighter after an inability to
    coordinate response to vessel fire on the Columbia River, and
    it is a fabulous collaboration, and it includes more than a
    dozen municipal fire agencies along the Willamette and Columbia
    Rivers, and many of those agencies have benefited from FIRE and
    SAFER grants. So it is a unique organization and it is a
    serious issue that they need to be prepared for. There's a lot
    of vessel traffic in the river.
        So I wanted to quote Bob Livingston. He's the President of
    the Oregon State Firefighters Council, and he described these
    grants, the FIRE and SAFER grants, as some of the best federal
    programs and they yield a great deal of success, and this is
    what he says. He said ``The reason for this is twofold. First,
    whether it is vital equipment that may save a life in the event
    of a cardiac arrest or having adequate staffing to handle the
    wide range of emergency response, these dollars are getting to
    the local level. Second, these dollars are allocated to local
    communities based on scientific-based information that allows
    Congressional members to come together in a bipartisan fashion
    to fund these important programs that make communities across
    this nation safer.'' So I know he appreciates the grants, and I
    have too.
        Mr. Hirsh, I wanted to ask you, the SAFER program has
    helped career departments hire new and additional personnel to
    meet staffing safety standards and it requires a percentage of
    funding to go to volunteer departments for recruitment and
    retention of volunteer firefighters. So in your written
    testimony, you describe a recruitment program in Stayton,
    Oregon, which is not quite in my district, but they've had a
    lot of success in bringing on career and volunteer
    firefighters. So could you elaborate on the program and the
    extent to which the best practices that are developed are
    scalable and repeatable for other volunteer fire departments?
        Mr. Hirsch. Yes. I think they are scalable and repeatable.
    In the particular one that you're talking about in Stayton,
    they not only recruited people for their own fire department,
    but as a result of the work that they did there, they recruited
    firefighters for neighboring fire departments as well. I
    believe there were some 80 firefighters in their district and I
    think around 30 in neighboring districts.
        The National Volunteer Fire Council currently has a program
    as a result of a grant through this program called Make Me a
    Firefighter. If you want to look at it, makemeafirefighter.org
    is the website. What that does it, it sets up a portal for
    local fire departments to create their own resource there so
    that if someone wants to volunteer for their department,
    there's a particular portal for that department that a person
    can sign up and see whether or not they need volunteers in that
    particular area, and----
        Ms. Bonamici. Wonderful. Thank you.
        And I want to get another question in. I know one of the
    proposals that's under consideration is to allow that the SAFER
    grant funds be used to augment the pay of part-time or paid on-
    call firefighters to make them full-time personnel, and I
    wonder if any of our witnesses could explain, do you support
    this? Do you share concerns that there might be about that
    change? Anybody want to weigh in on that proposal? I see Chief
    Sinclair's interested.
        Chief Sinclair. Thank you very much for the question. Many
    fire departments, mine as an example, are combination fire
    departments. We have reserves resident. The reserves are paid
    on-call firefighters. We have career folks and we have
    community volunteers. Many of our hires come from either our
    resident pool or our reserve firefighters, which are paid on-
    call firefighters. They are folks that are committed to the
    community, that are well known to the community. They're well
    known to us because we know their work ethic. And so having
    that pool of people that you can hire from is very appropriate.
    The conundrum in the current language is that because they're
    already a part-time employee, you can't hire them, even though
    they're probably one of your most trusted resources and would
    make a very good transition to a career position, and so that's
    the reason why we're asking for the change is simply to be able
    to take people that are committed inside of that community,
    have already proven themselves to the organization, and the
    ability to transition. Many people that are in the career force
    came out of the volunteer or part-time ranks.
        Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. That's valuable input. And I see
    that my time is expired.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Abraham. Thank you for being here, gentlemen. It's my
    time for some questioning. We appreciate your time away from
    your constituents. You are not only part of local security,
    fire security, but with global terror, now you're part of
    national security, and we understand the risks that you incur
    every time you enter a building of unknown substance.
        Chief Browning, thanks for being the Fire Marshal for my
    great State of Louisiana. You do an exemplary job, so kudos.
    You deserve it.
        And my first question is to you. The State Fire Marshals
    are responsible and required to collect the fire data in their
    state for the U.S. Fire Administration. How does this affect my
    State of Louisiana's resources, and do you consider that an
    unfunded mandate?
        Chief Browning. Yes, sir. First off, I'm going to tell you
    data collection is the most important thing. That's how we
    learn the testimony we give you today not only in the
    prevention area, the need for equipment and the need to hire
    additional personnel. It's that data that drives that, and that
    data starts at the local fire department. It comes to the State
    Fire Marshals. We collect that data, we scrub that data, and we
    report that to the U.S. Fire Administration. We receive no
    funds from the U.S. Fire Administration for doing that. It's a
    burden that my state budget and I suspect other State Fire
    Marshals' state budgets have to incur.
        Mr. Abraham. Some of the fire service groups feel that any
    changes to the FIRE grant authorization will have an effect on
    eliminating the sunset provision to take effect on January
    2018. What is the State Fire Marshals' position on this?
        Chief Browning. Well, first off, we need to eliminate the
    sunset. It's not my opinion that proper changes and right
    changes, smart changes, certainly changes that bring about
    prevention, changes that bring about better expenditure of that
    equipment grant, and better changes that allow us to hire and
    retain firefighters shouldn't affect that sunset.
        Mr. Abraham. And you've alluded to this question, but I'm
    going to ask it a little bit of a different way. You said in
    your testimony--I read it--that the most cost-effective way to
    protect the greatest number of individuals and property is to
    allocate additional funding for fire prevention and safety
    programs. How would additional funding for State Fire Marshal
    fire prevention and safety programs benefit fire departments in
    Louisiana, other states who do not provide fire prevention or
    have the resources to adequately enact fire prevention
    programs?
        Chief Browning. Well, I believe that allocating money to
    state programs puts a footprint in every community. So in our
    State of Louisiana, anything that the State Fire Marshal does,
    our state fire training center does, when they do that, it
    affects every fire department in our state, even the most rural
    that can't afford those resources, and even the largest and
    most progressive departments who we supplement the things that
    they do. So I think whether it's a smoke alarm campaign,
    whether it's a firefighter safety campaign, whether it's a
    training campaign, the state does do a good job of touching
    people who otherwise may be left out.
        Mr. Abraham. Mr. LaHood, five minutes for you, sir.
        Mr. LaHood. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and let me thank the
    witnesses for being here today, and thanks for your service to
    the communities that you serve throughout the country. I
    appreciate it very much, and for your valuable testimony here
    today.
        I want to add my support for the AFG grant program and the
    SAFER grant program. I've seen it throughout my district. I
    have a fairly rural district in central and west central
    Illinois, 19 counties that cover from Quincy, Illinois, to
    Jacksonville, Illinois, to Peoria and all places in between,
    and whether it's safety equipment, whether it's personnel, it
    has been a valuable program and has helped to protect the
    safety of the constituents there and also to help the many
    departments that are in my district. So we need to continue to
    support those programs.
        Dr. Horn, thank you for being here today, and the work that
    gets done at the Illinois Fire Service Institute is very
    important, and I've seen it. In my State of Illinois, I served
    in the state legislature there and worked an awful lot with our
    local fire departments there, and the work that goes on there,
    you know, cross-cutting research, cardiovascular research, heat
    stress research, fire ground chemical exposure research, and
    the benefits that come about from that are applicable whether
    it's rural or urban throughout the State of Illinois, and I
    think it's really kind of a poster child for other areas across
    the country that can be done. What I guess I'm wondering, Dr.
    Horn, and I wanted you to comment on, when we look at the
    federal level and whether there's any applicability of what we
    can do on the federal level based on what's done in Illinois, I
    was wondering if you could comment on that, on your thoughts.
        Dr. Horn. First of all, thanks for the kind words and the
    supportive comments. And so just a quick clarification. Are you
    asking what could be done to replicate some of the work that is
    being done at Illinois Fire Service Institute?
        Well, we're very fortunate at IFSI in that we have the
    state training academy, which IFSI is collocated with the
    University of Illinois, which is one of the leading Research
    Institutions in the country, and we have some very engaged
    individuals, both on the research side as well as on the fire
    service side to try to come together and locate problems. There
    certainly are opportunities to replicate that at other
    locations. For instance, Maryland's state academy is also at
    their state university.
        The important way that we can bring this forward is to make
    sure that we have the leadership that is willing to engage both
    sides and to understand the necessity that the fire service has
    for having this research translate into practice. It can be
    challenging for some academic research institutions depending
    on how they are receiving tenure, promotion, those sorts of
    things to potentially be engaged in some of this hands-on, more
    applied type of research as opposed to some of the more
    traditional funded research in those programs. So because we
    have the collocation of both of those, it allows us to do
    certain things like that where we can touch both the academic
    side and the hands-on side.
        I believe this is when we talk about the centers of
    excellence. Centers of excellence are actually now--we have
    people from across the country, the projects that we wish NIOSH
    and Underwriter Labs and Skidmore College in New York are a
    center that actually involved in multiple different agencies
    that is being replicated. Phoenix--University of Arizona is
    developing a project that includes us as well as NIOSH as well
    as Miami and other places. So the research is becoming, because
    of this R&D program, very transdisciplinary and across the
    country.
        So I believe it's starting to be replicated in various
    different areas. But the ability to translate it to the fire
    service, if centers for excellence were to be funded, that's
    one of the critical avenues because that is a challenging
    aspect of all of this, someone who can speak engineering or
    medical science and speak firefighter at the same time because
    often those two don't overlap with each other, and that's a
    critical avenue where I think we have some unique ability to
    fill in that gap.
        Mr. LaHood. Great. Thank you, Dr. Horn. Those are all my
    questions.
        Chairwoman Comstock. Thank you. And my apologies to have to
    briefly leave. I have another hearing going on right now, a
    committee I serve on where the FBI building was an issue. So
    we've been wanting to get that in Virginia. I know my Maryland
    colleagues had other ideas. I think we all agreed we didn't
    want it in D.C.
        But thank you all for your time and your expertise. We
    really appreciate all of your testimony and the members for
    their questions. I think as you can see from today's hearing,
    we are all united in our interest in continuing the good work
    that you have on here and that you've done here, and we
    appreciate all you are doing in our respective communities and
    for the country.
        So the record will remain open for two weeks for additional
    written comments and written questions from members, and I'll
    also reiterate, any of the different technology items and
    things that you would like us to--any visuals that we can
    highlight for our colleagues will be very helpful as we go
    forward with our September 30th deadline that we want to make
    sure we continue the good work you are doing.
        So the hearing is now adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 11:41 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

                                   Appendix I

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                       Answers to Post-Hearing Questions

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                                  Appendix II

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                       Additional Material for the Record

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