[Senate Hearing 114-380]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 114-380
PENDING PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING LEGISLATION
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON
ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON
S. 160/H.R. 373 S. 814
S. 365 S. 815
S. 472 S. 1240
S. 583
__________
MAY 21, 2015
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COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho RON WYDEN, Oregon
MIKE LEE, Utah BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
JEFF FLAKE, Arizona DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
STEVE DAINES, Montana AL FRANKEN, Minnesota
BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
CORY GARDNER, Colorado MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
ROB PORTMAN, Ohio MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia
Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining
JOHN BARRASSO, Chairman
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO RON WYDEN
JAMES E. RISCH DEBBIE STABENOW
MIKE LEE AL FRANKEN
STEVE DAINES JOE MANCHIN III
BILL CASSIDY MARTIN HEINRICH
CORY GARDNER MAZIE K. HIRONO
JOHN HOEVEN ELIZABETH WARREN
JEFF FLAKE
LAMAR ALEXANDER
Karen K. Billups, Staff Director
Patrick J. McCormick III, Chief Counsel
Lucy Murfitt, Senior Counsel and Natural Resources Policy Director
Angela Becker-Dippmann, Democratic Staff Director
Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
David Brooks, Democratic General Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Barrasso, Hon. John, Subcommittee Chairman and a U.S. Senator
from Wyoming................................................... 1
Wyden, Hon. Ron, Subcommittee Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator
from Oregon.................................................... 2
Risch, Hon. James E., U.S. Senator from Idaho.................... 107
Heinrich, Hon. Martin, U.S. Senator from New Mexico.............. 108
Heller, Hon. Dean, U.S. Senator from Nevada...................... 108
Lee, Hon. Mike, U.S. Senator from Utah........................... 178
WITNESSES
Weldon, Leslie, Deputy Chief, National Forest System, Forest
Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture........................ 111
Murphy, Timothy, Acting Assistant Director, National Conservation
Lands & Community Partnerships, Bureau of Land Management, U.S.
Department of the Interior..................................... 121
Johnson, Rick, Executive Director, Idaho Conservation League..... 137
Stevenson, Brett, Board of Directors, Wood River Bicycle
Coalition...................................................... 156
ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
Barrasso, Hon. John:
Opening Statement............................................ 1
Board of County Commissioners, Douglas County, Nevada:
Statement for the Record..................................... 201
Catlin, Dr. James:
Statement for the Record..................................... 232
Confederated Tribes of the Coos, Lower Umpqua, and Siuslaw
Indians:
Statement for the Record..................................... 4
Garfield County (Utah):
Letter for the Record........................................ 248
Hatch, Hon. Orrin:
Statement for the Record..................................... 250
Hedden, Willard:
Statement for the Record..................................... 253
Heinrich, Hon. Martin:
Opening Statement............................................ 108
Heller, Hon. Dean:
Opening Statement............................................ 108
Idaho Recreation Council:
Statement for the Record..................................... 260
Johnson, Rick:
Opening Statement............................................ 137
Written Testimony............................................ 139
Kane County (Utah) Board of Commissioners:
Letter for the Record........................................ 262
King Klein, Carole:
Statement for the Record..................................... 264
Lee, Hon. Mike:
Opening Statement............................................ 178
McKee, Norman:
Letter for the Record........................................ 265
Murphy, Timothy:
Opening Statement............................................ 121
Written Testimony............................................ 123
Responses to Questions for the Record........................ 199
PeopleForBikes:
Statement for the Record..................................... 267
(The) Pew Charitable Trusts:
Statement for the Record..................................... 269
Public Lands Council, et al:
Letter for the Record........................................ 180
Risch, Hon. James E.:
Opening Statement............................................ 107
(The) Sawtooth Society:
Statement for the Record..................................... 272
Sorenson, Craig and Ramoma:
Letter for the Record........................................ 275
Stevenson, Brett:
Opening Statement............................................ 156
Written Testimony............................................ 158
Trudeau, Mimi:
Letter for the Record........................................ 278
U.S. Department of the Interior:
Statement for the Record regarding S. 160/H.R. 373........... 280
Utah Cattlemen's Association:
Statement for the Record..................................... 182
Utah Farm Bureau Federation:
Letter for the Record........................................ 185
Watts, Kevin:
Letter for the Record........................................ 282
Weldon, Leslie:
Opening Statement............................................ 111
Written Testimony............................................ 113
Wolverton, Bill:
Letter for the Record........................................ 285
Wyden, Hon. Ron:
Opening Statement............................................ 2
----------
The text for each of the bills which were addressed in this hearing can
be found on the committee's website at: http://www.energy.senate.gov/
public/index.cfm/hearings-and-business-meetings?ID=9FE456B6-AB07-405C-
81EE-D58980D7BE02.
PENDING PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING LEGISLATION
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THURSDAY, MAY 21, 2015
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:30 p.m. in
Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John
Barrasso, Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO, U.S. SENATOR FROM
WYOMING
Senator Barrasso. The Subcommittee will come to order.
This is our first legislative hearing in the Public Lands,
Forests and Mining Subcommittee this Congress. The purpose of
today's hearing is to receive testimony on seven bills pending
before the Subcommittee.
Four of these bills were considered by the Subcommittee in
the last Congress. The four bills are S. 160/H.R. 370, Senator
Heller and Representative Hecht's bill to expedite Good
Samaritan Search and Rescue Operations. This one is important
to help bring closure to families of missing persons as quickly
as possible. S. 814 and S. 815, Senator Wyden's Tribal Land
Conveyance bills in Oregon; and, S. 1240, Senator Heinrich's
bill to designate two new wilderness areas in the Rio Grande
del Norte National Monument in Northern New Mexico.
We will update the records of the four bills and allow
members, especially those who are new to the Subcommittee, an
opportunity to ask any questions that they might have.
The remaining three bills are new to the Subcommittee. S.
365, was introduced by Senator Hatch and co-sponsored by
Senator Lee. This bill will restore grazing levels in the Grand
Staircase Escalante National Monument and provide needed
certainty to the family ranching operations and communities
located there. This is one of President Clinton's Antiquity Act
monuments which is still causing reverberations in Utah today.
S. 472, another bill from Senator Heller, will authorize
several land conveyances to facilitate sensible development in
Douglas County in Nevada. The Federal Government controls over
50 percent of the land base in this one county, so it is not
surprising that the county has come to Congress for help.
Finally, S. 583, Senator Risch's Sawtooth National
Recreation Area and Jerry Peak Wilderness additions bills.
Senator Risch will have an opportunity to speak to them
shortly.
First let me turn to the Ranking Member, Senator Wyden, for
his remarks.
STATEMENT OF HON. RON WYDEN, U.S. SENATOR FROM OREGON
Senator Wyden. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I just
want to say at the outset since this is our first forestry
hearing that I am very much looking forward to working with you
on these issues.
Mr. Chairman, I also see our friend and colleague from
Idaho, Senator Risch here, and we all work together on these
issues often.
I can remember when I was Chairman of this Subcommittee. It
is an important Subcommittee particularly for those of us from
the West trying to find fresh, creative approaches to deal with
the challenges, it is especially important to our constituents.
Let me make a quick apology to our guests from Idaho. We
know that it is a challenge getting back here. I apologize, I
am busy with the Trade bill on the floor, so I am going to have
to chase off here in a moment but look forward to working with
you all.
Of course, Ms. Weldon and Mr. Murphy, two professionals
that we have worked with often and we are glad to have you
here. Again, my apologies with respect to not being able to
stay.
Chairman Barrasso was kind enough to let me make some brief
remarks with respect to two important bills from my
constituents, Oregon tribal bills, S. 814 and 815.
The Coos, Lower Umpqua and Siuslaw Indians and the Cow
Creek band of Umpqua Tribe of Indians have waited a long, long
time for these bills. I am glad that they are being heard once
again in the Committee.
This is the second Congress that I have introduced these
bills individually and as part of my O and C lands legislation,
and I hope it will finally be the end of the discussion and we
will act on them.
It is long past time for Congress to do the right thing and
designate these lands as tribal lands, righting a wrong that
happened long ago but still impacts tribal members in my state
and across the country. Termination era policies are a shameful
part of American history with long standing impact on the
nation's first peoples.
The Cow Creek and Coos Tribes were restored to Federal
recognition in the 1980's but have yet to regain any land.
These tribes deserve the right to exercise their tribal
sovereignty, to grow an economy, support and protect tribal
members, embrace and celebrate their cultural and religious
priorities and raise new generations of tribal members who
understand the importance of their heritage. In order to do
that they have got to have a land base to call home.
The two bills will convey more than 17,000 acres and more
than 14,000 acres of land that is now managed by the Bureau of
Land Management to the Secretary of the Interior to hold in
trust for the Cow Creek Band of Umpqua Tribe of Indians and the
Confederated Tribes of Coos, Lower Umpqua and Siuslaw Indians,
respectfully.
Both the Cow Creek and the Coos Tribes testified before the
Subcommittee in a hearing on November 20, 2013, and they are
going to submit written testimony today to, once again, stress
the importance of these bills to their tribal sovereignty and
the future of their tribal members.
[The information referred to follows.]
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Senator Wyden. So I look forward to working again with my
colleagues, Chairman Barrasso and Senator Risch. I also see
Senator Heinrich here. We have worked together often and well
on these issues. I look forward to that cooperation to finally
close the book on this and give the Coos, Lower Umpqua and
Siuslaw Indians and the Cow Creek Band of Umpqua Tribe of
Indians the land base they richly deserve.
Again, Mr. Chairman, thank you and my apologies for the
hectic nature of the next few hours. I look forward to working
with you.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Wyden, for your
efforts on this issue as well as so many that you are so
heavily involved with in the Senate.
Thank you.
Senator Risch, I would like to turn to you.
STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES E. RISCH, U.S. SENATOR FROM IDAHO
Senator Risch. Thank you very much.
Senator Wyden, before you go, thank you for your work on,
fire on Western acres. It has been a pleasure working with you
on timber issues, and I look forward to continuing.
Senator Wyden. Big thanks.
Senator Risch. To the Chairman, thank you so much for
holding this hearing.
Senate bill 583 is a companion bill to House bill 1138.
They are exactly and precisely the same, even in the
punctuation in the bill.
We have people here who are experts on this matter who are
going to testify here today.
What these two bills do is add additional wilderness acres
in Idaho. This has a long history, and I cannot go any further
without saying that Congressman Simpson is the hero on this. He
has worked at this tirelessly. He has had to back up and retool
and start over again, at least once that I am familiar with,
and he has done really a magnificent job of bringing people
together.
This bill is truly the work of the collaboration process to
which a lot of people in this room subscribe and with which
they are very familiar.
We have here from Idaho, Mr. Rick Johnson, who is head of
the flagship, if I might say so, conservation organization in
Idaho. I had the privilege and honor of working with Mr.
Johnson when I was Governor as he helped me craft a roadless
rule for the State of Idaho, not just me, but it was lots and
lots of people that did that.
I am always happy to brag that we have the only, not
withstanding Colorado, with all due respect, it is not exactly
the same, but we have virtually the only roadless rule in the
United States that has been approved and been approved all the
way through the Ninth Circuit Court. Our litigation is over in
that regard. We have really put the cap on 40 some years of
litigation and arguing, and brought some common sense and, most
of all, some stability to the issue.
Mr. Johnson, who has been deeply, deeply, involved in this
particular bill, is here to help us today.
I can say that Representative Simpson has really brought a
consensus to this and has virtually everybody on board with all
due respect to Ms. Stevenson, who represents the Mountain
Bikers and who is in disagreement with the bill. However, I
understand that her objections are the same objections that are
in every wilderness bill. Although she will correct me I am
sure if I am wrong on that, but that is that you cannot use the
bicycles in the wilderness areas which is really not something
we wanted to tackle in this bill and really should not be
tackling in this bill.
To my two friends from the Federal Government, I understand
they are going to state their concerns, as they always do. The
fact that there are 907 acres in this bill that are actually
conveyed out of the hands of the U.S. Government. Now to put
this in perspective, they are conveyed to public agencies to be
used only for a public purpose since the Forest Service owns
and controls 20 plus million acres in the State of Idaho, and
the BLM owns and controls almost 12 million acres in the State
of Idaho. And this bill only conveys 907 acres. I will
apologize already that you will not see me tear up over the
fact that this does convey 907 acres out of the hands of the
Federal Government.
So, with that, this is a great compromise. It is well done.
It is something that is really in the best interest of the
people of the State of Idaho.
With that, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding the
hearing.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Risch.
Senator Heinrich, I invite you to make any comments you
would like.
STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH, U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO
Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman Barrasso. I really
want to thank you for including my bill, the Sueldos del Norte
Conservation Act, on today's agenda.
This is a bill that would establish two wilderness areas
within the Rio Grande del Norte National Monument. These two
areas were part of the original legislative proposal for this
area that Senator Bingaman introduced in the Senate that I was
a co-sponsor of in the House, and it really helps further the
community vision for this landscape.
I also want to put in a plug for Senator Risch's bill. My
mother's side of the family is from Idaho, places like Twin
Falls and Buhl. I have been watching this community effort for
many, many years. I got a chance to work with Congressman
Simpson in the House a little bit on these issues, and I think
this is a very balanced approach. I appreciate all the work
that has gone into it.
Senator Risch. I appreciate that.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
Now, I would like to ask and invite Senator Heller for any
comments he would like to make on his legislation.
STATEMENT OF HON. DEAN HELLER, U.S. SENATOR FROM NEVADA
Senator Heller. Mr. Chairman, thank you.
I was just wondering, if there is any place Senator
Heinrich is not from. [Laughter.]
Senator Heller. Since he----
Senator Heinrich. Well they did move down to----
Senator Heller. To Fallon, Nevada.
Senator Heinrich. To Fallon from Idaho. So. [Laughter.]
Senator Heller. That is wonderful.
Anyway, Mr. Chairman, thank you and Senator Wyden for
including my bills to address a couple of very difficult public
lands issues that Nevada is facing.
As you know, Mr. Chairman, prompt action on these types of
bills is extremely important and the well being of us Western
States. So thank you very much, again, for holding this
hearing.
As you know, the Federal Government administers roughly 85
percent of the land in Nevada, the highest percentage of any
state in the nation. This presents our local and state
governments with many unique challenges. Those communities
often work closely with the congressional delegation to develop
bills to improve public land management.
Last Congress I was proud to work with Chairman Murkowski
on the Public Lands package. It was ultimately enacted into law
as part of the National Defense Authorization Act. The eight
Nevada bills included in that package were the culmination of
nearly a decade worth of work on public lands bills, and I
appreciate the Chairman's leadership on these issues.
I hope my two bills here before us today will be the next
in these public lands successes.
Douglas County Conservation Act, the first one, is a
grassroots-driven proposal that balances the needs to spur
economic development while preserving our state's western
character.
In 2009, Douglas County embarked on a long process to
develop legislation that adjusts Federal land ownership and
management throughout the economy. Over the course of six years
they performed outreach activities, held a series of community
open houses, obtained the input of stakeholder groups and
several hundred thousand community members. Ultimately the
Board of Commissioners unanimously approved the framework of a
bill and requested that Congress move forward.
As a result, Representative Amodei, Senator Reid and I
introduced the bill in February with the support of our entire
congressional delegation. The final product jump-starts
economic development throughout Douglas County while ensuring
the rural character of Carson Valley remains intact.
Specifically, it conveys lands to local governments and the
Washoe Tribe for important public works projects. Additionally
it would promote conservation of riparian and the state sage
grouse habitat along the Carson River and improve recreation
opportunities.
I want to particularly underscore the conveyance of flood
control management areas and important water resource
infrastructure parcels to Douglas County which are critical to
the long term economic competitiveness of the region. Four
flash flood events that occurred in July and August 2014,
ravaged the region causing more than a $1 million worth of
damage throughout the area. The county has started construction
on two projects to reduce the flood risks and conducted
additional studies to identify additional flood risks.
Whereas out East, local governments can acquire land on
their own to build public works projects; unfortunately out
West, as you know as well as I do, we have to get congressional
approval.
These conveyances are critical to the county's long-term
flood control and transportation planning efforts. This bill
was developed from the bottom-up, not the top-down, the way
public lands bills should be written. As a result, it has
garnered nearly unanimous local support ranging from the Washoe
Tribe to local towns and general improvement districts.
My second bill, the Good Samaritans Search and Recovery
Act, would solve a long-standing public safety issue on public
lands. Congressman Joe Hecht and I first introduced this
legislation in 2013 in response to the tragic stories of Mr.
Keith Goldberg and Air Force Staff Sergeant Antonio Tucker.
Both of these individuals were missing for over a year before
volunteer, Good Samaritan rescue teams received Government
authorization to begin searching.
Keith Goldberg, a Las Vegas taxi cab driver disappeared on
January 31st, 2012. He was believed to be a victim of murder,
but the police were unable to find his remains in the Las Vegas
desert. When new evidence pointed toward the Lake Mead
Recreation Area, the Goldberg family reached out to a private
search and rescue team to look for Keith. All that prevented
the rescue team from discovering the body was the bureaucratic
red tape of the Park Service which refused to allow them to
search the area without a permit and a $1 million insurance
policy. After the family spent six months finding an insurer
and raising the money to buy the policy, Keith's body was found
within two hours.
Staff Sergeant Antonio Tucker's family suffered a similar
frustrating ordeal. Staff Sergeant Tucker was stationed at
Creech Air Force Base when he went missing on June 23rd, 2012.
He was believed drowned.
Like the situation with Keith Goldberg, a search team
offered to look for Staff Sergeant Tucker but was blocked by
the Department of the Interior. When the team finally received
authorization to search nearly a year later, they found the
body in two days.
No family should have to go through what the Goldberg and
Tucker families have had to endure. This bipartisan, common
sense legislation that expedites access to public lands for
search and recovery organizations has been thoroughly vetted in
this Congress. It has had multiple hearings between the House
and Senate, attracting no significant opposition, and last year
it passed the House by a vote of 413 to zero. I am confident it
can garner similar overwhelming support in the Senate, so let's
get this done.
Again, thank you for the opportunity, Mr. Chairman, for
allowing me to testify today. I look forward to working
together to move these bipartisan proposals through the U.S.
Congress.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much, Senator Heller.
It is now time to hear from our witnesses. Ms. Leslie
Weldon is the Deputy Chief of the U.S. Forest Service; Mr. Tim
Murphy is the Acting Assistant Director for the Bureau of Land
Management; Mr. Rick Johnson is the Executive Director for the
Idaho Conservation League; and, Ms. Brett Stevenson is the
Board of Director member for the Wood River Bicycle Coalition.
At the end of the witness testimony, we will begin
questions. Your full written testimony will be made part of the
official hearing, so please keep your statements to five
minutes so that we may have time for questions.
We look forward to hearing your testimony beginning with
Ms. Weldon. Would you please proceed?
STATEMENT OF LESLIE WELDON, DEPUTY CHIEF, NATIONAL FOREST
SYSTEM, FOREST SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
Ms. Weldon. Thank you, Chairman Barrasso and members of the
Subcommittee for the opportunity to present views of the U.S.
Department of Agriculture regarding S. 160, the Good Samaritan
Search and Recovery Act; S. 472, the Douglas County
Conservation Act; and S. 583, the Sawtooth National Recreation
Area and Jerry Peak Wilderness Additions Act.
I'd like to begin with S. 160 which the Department supports
with just minor technical corrections and amendments.
One provision of S. 160 would direct the Secretary of
Agriculture to develop and implement a process to expedite
access to National Forest System lands for eligible
organizations and individuals to conduct Good Samaritan search
and recovery missions for missing individuals presumed to be
deceased at the time the search is initiated.
This and the desired intent of the act, which is to allow
expedited access to Federal lands for search and recovery
missions, are substantially consistent with current Forest
Service policies and guidelines governing these types of
activities and access. However, the provisions requiring
development and implementation of a process to expedite access
may be a bit redundant with some of the work in the process
that we already have in place on the National Forest System.
The Forest Service right now participates as a strong
partner in coordination and leadership with local law
enforcement agencies who are our lead in leading search and
rescue and subsequent recovery missions. We value local law
enforcement agencies and the talent and commitment they bring
in leading these coordinated efforts. We also acknowledge the
critical importance to family and friends of timely recovery.
Regardless of the ultimate outcome of the congressional
consideration of S. 160, the Forest Service is committed to
working with all organizations and dedicated men and women who
volunteer their time and expertise to assist in the search and
recovery of those that are missing.
The Douglas County Conservation Act of 2015. With that, I'd
like to bring up just a couple of points covered in my written
testimony.
In general regarding land conveyances, the Department's
interest is to see that the public is appropriately compensated
for lands that are taken out of public ownership. In Section
102 regarding the concessionaires at Round Hill Pines
Management Area and Zephur Shoals Management Area, we'd like to
continue and encourage the efforts that are happening on the
ground now to look for solutions to ensure that we are
providing the best public services we can through the
concessionaires in place for these very popular recreation
sites. We believe that locally-developed solutions would carry
more ownership for all parties involved.
In Section 2 or Title 2, Section 201 regarding the transfer
of the identified NFS lands to the Department of Interior to be
held in trust for the benefit of the Washoe Tribe, I'd like to
add that in addition to supporting this bill, the Forest
Service continues to work with the tribes and maintains
communications on numerous current issues of concern to both
parties as part of our government-to-government relationships.
Regarding S. 583, to Senator Risch and Congressman Simpson,
we really express our appreciation for your emphasis and focus
for supporting this bill. As it was said earlier, it's been a
long time in the making and we're glad to see this kind of
progress. We'd like to echo the support from all the local
levels involved in bringing this solution forward.
The Department supports the bill as it applies to lands
managed by the Forest Service, and we defer to the Department
of Interior for matters concerning land administration by the
BLM.
The Department supports designation of Hemmingway, Boulder-
White Clouds and Jim A. McClure-Jerry Peak Wilderness. Most of
the National Forest System makers that would be designated are
already part of their respective forest plans for the area, and
that National Forest System acres that would be designated by
the bill, not recommended, are part of previously identified
roadless areas.
So we would just like to emphasize our support for this
bill. And appreciate the efforts to continue it moving forward.
And I'm available to take any questions that you have.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Weldon follows:]
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Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Ms. Weldon.
Mr. Murphy?
STATEMENT OF TIMOTHY MURPHY, ACTING ASSISTANT DIRECTOR,
NATIONAL CONSERVATION LANDS & COMMUNITY PARTNERSHIPS, BUREAU OF
LAND MANAGEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
Mr. Murphy. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Ranking
Member and members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the
opportunity to discuss the seven bills being considered by the
Committee today.
I'm Tim Murphy, BLM State Director for Idaho and currently
acting as the BLM's Assistant Director for National
Conservation Lands and Community Partnerships. The BLM looks
forward to working with the Committee to address the important
issues raised by these bills.
I'm accompanied by Simeon Clevenger, Acting Deputy Director
for Emergency Services at the National Park Service. He's
available to respond to questions related to the Park Service
or to H.R. 373 and S. 160, the Good Samaritan Search and
Recovery Act.
The Department supports S. 160 and H.R. 373 with
amendments. These bills would require the Secretary of Interior
and Agriculture to develop and implement a process to expedite
access to Federal lands for Good Samaritan search and rescue
missions. We'd like to work with the Committee to amend these
bills as outlined in the National Park Service statement for
the record to allow expedited access for search and recovery
missions without complicating existing procedures or causing
unintended impacts to relationships between Federal agencies
and search organizations.
S. 365 directs the BLM to develop a management program to
improve rangeland conditions and restore livestock raising to
the level of use that existed prior to the designation of the
Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument. The BLM supports
the bill's goal of improving the rangeland health and
supporting grazing within the Grand Staircase Escalante
National Monument, and we support the use of existing
regulations to address grazing permit renewals, but the BLM
does not support grazing use targets that are drawn or set in
an arbitrary number. We look forward to working with the
sponsor on this issue.
S. 472, the Douglas County Conservation Act, authorizes
Federal land conveyances and sales in Douglas County, Nevada.
It directs the Secretary of Interior to take into trust
approximately 1,000 acres of Federal land for the benefit of
the Washoe Tribe of Nevada and California and designates about
12,000 acres of Burbank Canyon's wilderness. The BLM generally
supports the goals of the bill as it pertains to BLM and we'd
like the opportunity to work with the sponsors and Subcommittee
to address the various issues including paleontological
resources issues, fund management, language ensuring uniform
appraisal standards and practice and other technical issues.
S. 583, the Sawtooth National Recreation Area and Jerry
Peak Wilderness Additions Act, would designate three wilderness
areas in Central Idaho including two that would be partially
managed by the BLM. These lands contain outstanding wildlife
habitat and beautiful mountain terrain. The legislation also
includes several conveyances to local government. The BLM
supports this legislation and commends Senator Risch,
Congressman Simpson, and the Idaho Delegation for their hard
work over many years of this proposal. We look forward to
continuing to work with the delegation on the proposal.
S. 814, the Oregon Coastal Land Conveyance Act and S. 815,
the Cow Creek Umpqua Land Conveyance Act would together provide
roughly 32,000 acres of BLM managed lands in Western Oregon to
be held in trust on the behalf of the Confederated Tribes of
Coos, Lower Umpqua and Siuslaw Indians and the Cow Creek Band
of the Umpqua Tribe of Indians. The BLM welcomes the
opportunity to work with Congress on the transfer of lands into
trust status and supports the goals of S. 814 and S. 815. We'd
like the opportunity to work with the sponsor and the Committee
to address various issues with the bill.
S. 1240, the Cerros del Norte Conservation Act would
designate two new wilderness areas, about 21,000 acres within
the Rio Grande del Norte National Monument in New Mexico. These
new wilderness areas would protect the Ute Mountain, a
centerpiece within the monument that's home to elk and other
wildlife and the Rio San Antonio which contains a rugged gorge
that offers opportunities for solitude. The BLM appreciates the
sponsor's work on this legislation and supports the bill.
In conclusion, thank you again for the opportunity to be
here today to discuss these seven bills. I'd be glad to answer
any questions that you may have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Murphy follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Murphy.
Mr. Johnson?
STATEMENT OF RICK JOHNSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, IDAHO
CONSERVATION LEAGUE
Mr. Johnson. I am Rick Johnson. I'm the Executive Director
of the Idaho Conservation League. I'm here to speak to S. 583.
Our organization has supported wilderness protection for
the Boulder-White Clouds since our founding 40 years ago. The
Boulder and White Cloud Mountains are a crown jewel of Idaho
and deserve permanent protection, and we have been here before
to talk about this.
In June 2010 when I appeared at this table, Senator Risch
along with the entire Idaho delegation had just introduced a
version of this bill. During the hearing Senator Risch
expressed reservations. He told us that the bill needed more
compromise. There has now been more compromise, and there is
now much more support.
Once again, respectful of compromise, respectful of the
legislative process, I am here to speak in support of this
bill.
The Idaho Conservation League has worked with
Representative Mike Simpson for well over a decade on this
legislation. We worked with Senators Jim Risch and Mike Crapo
for a long time on this too. While we all get points for
persistence, this is not about us. This is about the future of
the Boulder and White Cloud Mountains. This is a very special
place. These mountain ranges contain the headwaters of four
major rivers and are home to some of the highest elevation
salmon habitat on Earth.
This is a landscape of summer and winter range for big game
and critical habitat for endangered and allusive species like
wolverine. It is also an unparalleled resource for many
different recreational pursuits. The wild heart of the Boulder-
White Clouds deserves the highest protection possible, and
wilderness designation provides that.
It would also create the first designated wilderness in the
Wood River Valley, a community that supports strong land
protection and has long been supportive of this effort.
It is time to get the job done. One way or another
prospects for protecting the Boulder-White Clouds have never
been better. Many believe a bill written by the Idaho
Delegation is the best path. I asked the delegation who else is
on board? Their response is much different than it was five
years ago. The support today is remarkable.
The Idaho Outfitters and Guides Association is supportive.
Local ranchers are supportive. The Idaho Cattle Association and
the Idaho Farm Bureau, never wilderness advocates, have
indicated they will not stand in the way. Idaho water users are
supporters of the water protections. The Sawtooth Society is
supportive as is the Custer County Commission. The Idaho
Recreation Council represents motorized trail bikes and
snowmobile users and they are not opposed. And many
conservationists support this bill including the Idaho
Conservation League, who I represent, the Wilderness Society
and the Pew Charitable Trust. We have also heard from
individual mountain bikers who support, if not formal
organizations. The biking groups would like access to all
groups, and I sympathize and recognize that compromise is hard.
Compromise has been hard for our interests as well. If the
bill passes there will, regretfully, be 57,000 fewer acres as
wilderness than in the previous version of this bill. There are
significant parts of the Boulder-White Clouds that are not
included here that we always assumed would be ultimately
protected. No one suggests this bill is perfect. It is not how
I would have written it, but Senator Jim Risch and
Representative Mike Simpson have long demonstrated that in
order to govern, we cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the
good.
There has never been such broad consensus around
legislation for the Boulder-White Clouds. As we all know, there
are other options for protection being discussed. This hearing
is an important step, and I applaud Senator Risch and the
Committee for holding this hearing. I know it took a lot of
work and I appreciate that. There are many more steps ahead,
however. The road is long, and the time is very short. One way
or another, it's time to permanently protect this landscape and
this bill would do that.
Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I look
forward to questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Johnson follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Johnson.
Ms. Stevenson?
STATEMENT OF BRETT STEVENSON, BOARD OF DIRECTORS, WOOD RIVER
BICYCLE COALITION
Ms. Stevenson. Thank you, Chairman Barrasso and
distinguished members of the Committee for the opportunity to
weigh in on S. 583. It is an honor and privilege to provide
local perspective on issues that are critical to our quality of
life and local economy.
My name is Brett Stevenson, and I am a native of Idaho. My
parents left their careers in San Francisco before I was born
in search of something new, fresh and wholesome. They
discovered the Wood River Valley.
They bought land and started farming. We have become
MillerCoors' Showcase Barley Farm, a distinction earned by,
among other things, making irrigation adjustments to save over
150,000,000 gallons of water annually and consistently growing
excellent barley.
After school I returned home to be a land-use planner for
Blaine County. Five years later I went to work with Rick
Johnson at the Idaho Conservation League. In 2012, I left ICL
to help on the family ranch where it's all hands on deck to try
to improve water management in our depleted basin.
Connections to the land and the community are what make the
Wood River Valley more than just where we live. It's where we
thrive.
Today I'm speaking on behalf of the Wood River Bicycle
Coalition, a chapter of the International Mountain Bicycling
Association (IMBA). We applaud Senator Risch and Congressman
Simpson for their work on this issue, so it is with some
disappointment that we find ourselves in opposition to this
proposed legislation.
The Bike Coalition and IMBA support enhanced protection of
the Boulder-White Clouds and Jerry Peak areas; however, in this
case we do not believe that wilderness is the most appropriate
solution. The Boulder-White Clouds play a critical role between
the Sun Valley Resort and the Sawtooth Frank Church River of No
Return Wilderness Areas. It completes the full spectrum of the
areas draw attracting recreationalists of all kinds which is
critical to our tourism-based economy.
Biking contributed $33,000,000 to our local economy in a
single season. Closing these marquee trails to biking closes a
crucial marketing element to the local economy. Our local
businesses support protection coupled with continued bicycle
access.
Many Americans live in urban settings with limited outdoor
recreational experiences, yet we're all aware of the
transformative and beneficial effects of adventures in the
natural, rugged environments. These experiences provide
rejuvenation, inspiration and perspective. In short, they make
us better people.
The trend away from active recreation is concerning;
however, one bright spot is bikes. The Outdoor Industry
Association reports bicycling is the top outdoor activity for
youth.
The growth in the National Interscholastic Cycling
Association, including the brand new Idaho league, demonstrates
this trend in youth involvement. Backcountry rides like Ants
Basin and Castle Divide develop determination, confidence, and
ultimately an appreciation for the natural world and our place
in it. These aspirational experiences are invaluable and
irreplaceable and should be encouraged not taken away.
Select mountain biking trails in the Boulder-White Clouds
and Jerry Peak area are vastly unique from front country or
urban biking experiences. Riding here is the only big
backcountry opportunity for mountain bikers in the entire
region. It is truly like nothing else.
We appreciate the permitive use only experiences in the
nearby Sawtooth and Frank Church Wilderness Areas. Trail impact
from horses, pack trains and backpackers are similar to, and
can even be greater than, those of bicyclists. So while this
bill has accommodated motorized vehicles, Heli-skiing and
snowmobiles, no consideration has been given to the continued
use of marquee trails that our community cares so deeply about.
A wilderness designation eliminates the only backcountry
bike experience in the area and it also tells bikers and local
businesses the Idaho Delegation does not consider bicycle
experience and their contribution to the local economy worth
protecting.
This bill does not feel like an Idaho solution. It is not
reflective of what our community wants. For the most part, we
want this special place to stay just how it is today.
In order to achieve that, some level of added protection or
designation may be necessary but it should be a designation
that preserves the ecological value and the recreational value,
particularly when the two are not mutually exclusive.
The Wilderness Act is a good tool for the protection of
landscape, habitat and natural splendor; however, it is one
tool in the legislative tool box. In this case we must ask
ourselves what is the objective of a new designation, and is
this bill achieving those goals or is it simply a feather in
someone's hat?
Solutions can be crafted using existing policy. Using a
one-size-fits-all approach at the cost of valued, low-impact,
recreational opportunities is a disservice to our community and
future generations.
The Wood River Bike Coalition and IMBA welcome the
opportunity to join with other stakeholders and the Idaho
Delegation to protect these treasured landscapes and the
recreational experiences they provide. We ask the Committee to
send this bill back to the delegation for further discussion
and collaboration.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Stevenson follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Ms. Stevenson.
Thank you all for your testimony.
Before we get to the questions, I would like to invite
Senator Lee to make comments about his piece of legislation.
STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE, U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH
Senator Lee. Thank you, Chairman Barrasso.
Thanks to all of you for being here today and for the
insight you have given us.
The farm and agriculture industry is an essential pillar of
my state's economy. According to Utah State University
researchers, the Utah food and agriculture industry makes up
more than 14 percent of the state's GDP and provides some
80,000 jobs. This tremendous output results in an economic
impact totaling $17.5 billion every year.
Much of Utah's farm industry consists of or relies in one
way or another on livestock grazing. With more than 25 of the
state's 29 counties reporting livestock as the dominant
agricultural sector, livestock represents the single largest
sector of farm income in Utah.
Unfortunately, due to restrictions on Federal lands, it is
increasingly difficult for Utah's ranchers to continue their
way of life. Utah has 45,000,000 acres classified as rangeland.
Of that, 33,000,000 acres are owned and controlled by Federal
land management agencies. Only 8,000,000 acres of Utah's
rangelands are privately-owned.
This reality means that Utah's ranchers often find
themselves at the mercy of Federal employees, Federal policies
and administrative decisions influenced by outside interests
groups who have worked to eliminate all grazing on Federally-
administered lands for the past 30 years or more. Being
dependent on the whims of Washington has not worked out well
for Utah's ranchers. Since the late 1940's, BLM and the Forest
Service have cut or suspended nearly 75 percent of Utah's total
livestock grazing animal unit months, or AUMs, across the Utah
landscape, from 5.4 million AUMs in 1949 to just over 2 million
in 2012.
Using the Antiquities Act on September 18th, 1996,
President Clinton issued a proclamation creating the Grand
Staircase Escalante National Monument with 1.9 million acres of
Federal land. At the time this designation occurred, the Grand
Staircase Escalante National Monument was the largest
Presidentially-created monument outside of Alaska. While using
the Antiquities Act to further limit activity on another 2
million acres of Utah land was wholly inappropriate, at least
President Clinton, at the time, looked to enshrine existing
grazing rights.
To this end, to his credit, President Clinton's
Presidential Proclamation and monument management plan stated
as follows, ``Nothing in this proclamation shall be deemed to
affect existing permits or leases for or levels of livestock
grazing on Federal lands within the monument. Existing grazing
uses shall continue to be governed by applicable laws and
regulations other than this proclamation.''
And yet, since President Clinton issued this proclamation,
nearly 28 percent of the 106,202 livestock grazing AUMs have
been suspended. Furthermore, BLM is currently in the process of
amending its management plan for the monument and is
considering several options that would either decrease or
eliminate grazing all together. Additionally, the Grand
Staircase Escalante National Monument designation under the
Antiquities Act means that BLM's priorities are not focused on
improving rangeland conditions for wildlife.
In concert with Senator Hatch, I have introduced S. 365
which directs BLM to implement a program to improve rangeland
conditions for wildlife and livestock carrying capacity in
those areas and to restore livestock grazing to the level of
usage in those areas that existed before the monument was
designated as a monument. This legislation represents an
opportunity for a rare win/win and will result in improved
rangeland and sustainable growth for Utah's ranchers.
If this measure is signed into law, BLM will focus on
preserving the Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument's
rangeland by, perhaps, using controlled burns to destroy weeds
or by removing Pinion and Juniper trees. Restoring forage
through the improvement of rangeland conditions will allow the
Grand Staircase Escalante to sustain grazing levels prior to
its designation as a monument. Healthier rangeland will
preserve the grazing rights Kane and Garfield County's ranchers
have used for generations. Improper management of Grand
Staircase Escalante not only damages the monument but it also
harms the people that depend on its forage.
Because S. 365 is a common sense solution, it is no
surprise that it has received broad support from Utah's
agriculture and farming industry, the Public Lands Council,
National Cattlemen's Beef Association, Utah Cattlemen's
Association, Utah Wool Growers Association and the Utah Farm
Bureau Federation. They have all endorsed S. 365, and I'd like
to submit their endorsement letters for the record.
Senator Barrasso. Without objection.
[The information referred to follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Senator Lee. Again, I would like to thank the Committee for
holding a hearing on S. 365 and focusing on a broad array of
issues affecting public lands.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Lee.
Now we will begin with questions starting with Senator
Risch.
Senator Risch. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Stevenson, I am going to start with you, and I want to
be fair on this. You have heard all the people that support
this bill. We tried to find a balance and bring in people who
opposed this legislation, and we were not able to find anyone
except you. Do you have anybody else that you want to speak up
for here in opposition to this?
Ms. Stevenson. Yes. I feel like the past several years of
collaboration actually are not reflected in this bill. There
have been a lot of meetings, formal public meetings, and a lot
of informal meetings. And out of those meetings I think you're
well aware of the memorandum of understanding between the
Wilderness Society, Idaho Conservation League, IMBA and the
Bike Coalition that supports a different avenue, a more
flexible approach, to achieving the conservation objectives
that you guys have set out to achieve.
Also, the city of Ketchum has a resolution that is
supportive of an alternative of national monument that supports
recreation. The city of Ketchum is very aware of the value that
recreation has in local economy and to our local community.
Blaine County has a similar resolution.
Additionally, I think we've submitted to you a business
letter of support asking for a national monument and protecting
continued mountain biking access. That letter generated around
60 businesses signing on to that within a week's time. In a
town of 5,000 people I think that's pretty significant.
Additionally there is a petition that's circulating online
asking for support for the national monument. And again, as an
alternative to wilderness, a more flexible one that would
support continued bike access. That has gone nationally with
around, I think, 100,000 signatures and 14,000 of those are
from Idaho.
So I don't think it's just me. [Laughter.]
Ms. Stevenson. Thank you.
Senator Risch. Well the issue would be that there have been
people who have taken both positions as far as a monument or a
bill is concerned, and the testimony here from Mr. Johnson
lists 25 or 26 of the most diverse groups that there are that
support this bill.
The Association of Western Pulp and Paper Workers, Blaine
County, Boulder-White Clouds' Council, City of Bellevue, City
of Sun Valley City Council, City of Haley, City Council of the
City of Ketchum, City Council of the City of Stanley, Camping
for America's Wilderness, Custer County, Idaho AFL-CIO, the
National Public Lands Grazing Campaign, a really, really
diverse group of organizations.
In addition to that, we have received letters of support on
the bill from the Idaho Cattle Association, the Idaho Farm
Bureau, and the East Fork Ranchers. So I appreciate your focus
on the bicycle situation. As Mr. Johnson pointed out,
compromise is hard.
And as I understand it, also in Mr. Johnson's testimony, he
lists 25 or 26 trails and roads that are going to remain open
that would not have, under the previous proposals that were
here. And those include Frog Lake Loop, Trail Loop 047 and 686,
Germania Trail 111, Grand Prize Trail 112, Washington Basin
Road 197, and it goes on and on.
Ms. Stevenson. Yes.
Senator Risch. So there was compromise in this bill. Would
you go so far as to agree to that?
Ms. Stevenson. Well, I would not disagree, I guess. Our
point is that this bill does close around a dozen trails. We're
asking for four, and those have not been considered. And I
think the long list of supporters that you were echoing, I
don't know if any of them would object to accommodations made
to a couple additional trails. And I feel like the support for
continued access on those trails is vast.
And I don't mean to be suggesting that a national monument
is the only way to do it. I think there are modifications to
this bill that could accommodate these goals. You could have a
non-wilderness corridors or you could do it through a language
based exceptions within the bill. There are also other options
like the Wild and Scenic River Act using that model to apply it
to a land designation.
So I feel like there are other tools that could
accommodate, to a farther degree, that could accommodate
mountain biking interests.
Senator Risch. Ms. Stevenson, you have made your case here,
and you have all the way through. I promise public hearings
mean something.
Ms. Stevenson. Thank you.
Senator Risch. What you have just put out I will shop
again.
Ms. Stevenson. Thank you.
Senator Risch. But I have to tell you I am not going to let
that stand in the way of passing the bill with all the support
that we have for it. I know you are sincere about this, and I
know you are proceeding in good faith.
I think there has been a lot of accommodation in here but
not as much as you wanted. I understand that. But in the give
and take process, you never get 100 percent of what you want.
So with that, I see my time is up and then some. I guess we
will do a second round in a minute, I hope.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Risch.
Senator Heinrich?
Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
I actually want to ask a quick question, Mr. Murphy, on S.
365. Shouldn't rangeland condition dictate what your grazing
levels are?
Mr. Murphy. Senator, I can qualify an answer to that is
yes.
Rangeland management is a data-based undertaking. The Grand
Staircase Escalante is working under rangeland guidance under a
land-use plan that's some 35 years old.
Senator Heinrich. So let's make sure I understand this. Is
the reductions in grazing levels that we have seen in Grand
Staircase, have they been driven by the monument designation or
were they driven by resource issues regarding drought, riparian
areas, those kinds of things?
Mr. Murphy. Since the monument designation, I'm not aware
of any reductions. Average use since 1996 has been
approximately 55 percent of permitted use.
Now that actual use is from the rangeland operators.
Ranchers look at market conditions, vegetative conditions,
drought. So those are permittees making those adjustments year
to year.
Senator Heinrich. If we were to mandate levels, would we be
potentially locking in levels above what could be sustained in
drought years?
Mr. Murphy. In renewing grazing permits has a data-driven
process now there's the grazing riders that we have used.
Senator Heinrich. Yes.
Mr. Murphy. We're seeking to amend the monument plan and
we're doing that now. That will provide a basis or a framework
for activity plan work such as using the National Environmental
Policy Act, a data-driven process, to renew grazing permits.
Senator Heinrich. Okay.
Shifting gears to another national monument, the Rio Grande
del Norte, which I believe has almost the exact same grazing
language.
One group that I hear from again and again in support of
both the monument designation and the current bill as well has
been local business owners that have seen, at least
anecdotally, increases in visitation to the area. Is the BLM
seeing more visitors to the area in the first couple of years
since the monument designation?
Mr. Murphy. In preparing for this hearing the information
that I gathered is that there's been a 40 percent increase in
visitation to the Taos area based on the monument designation,
a 30 percent increase in lodging taxes. Folks coming in are
procuring guide services, buying outdoor equipment, clothing
and so forth and generally bolstering the economics of the Taos
area based on their visitation to the monument.
Senator Heinrich. One last point I will make, just because
it has been a little bit of a confusing factor in the past, is
the Rio Grande del Norte National Monument. By virtue of the
fact that it was a National Conservation Lands designation
within the Bureau of Land Management, hunting is one of the
allowed uses as well as fishing. In fact, a buddy of mine last
year took a monster elk out of the monument. I was jealous. It
was bigger than the elk I got last fall.
But I just wanted to put that on the table because it has
been one of the questions we have received time and again is
would hunting continue in both the wilderness portions of the
monument and the monument broadly?
Mr. Murphy. Hunting would continue and I know that area
somewhat, in fact family lives in that area. I haven't hunted
it like you have, but I've seen the elk and I know it's a big
draw for people locally as well as tourism that will continue.
Senator Heinrich. Great.
Thank you very much.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
Ms. Stevenson, I tend to agree with the statement when you
say in your testimony that the wilderness is a single tool in
the legislative toolbox and that there is a lot of space
between wilderness and multiple use management.
I do not see establishing a national monument by
Presidential proclamation as the solution. Much of the area
that is the subject of this bill is already in a national
recreation area. Adding additional management layers on top of
that does not seem like a good idea to me. Continuing
wilderness study areas or recommended wilderness areas is not a
solution either, they de facto become wilderness areas.
So it seems that maybe the real problem you have here is
that mountain biking is a prohibited activity under the
Wilderness Act. So I just wonder would amending the Wilderness
Act to allow for mechanized travel solve the problem?
Ms. Stevenson. I suppose that would solve the problem, but
I'm not here today to advocate for that.
Senator Barrasso. Okay.
The next question is for Mr. Johnson.
You spent over a decade working on designating wilderness
in the Boulder-White Clouds region. You have also teamed up
more recently with Ms. Stevenson and other stakeholders to ask
the President to exercise his Antiquity Act's authority to
proclaim a national monument for the whole area, about 600,000
plus acres.
So at the end of the day, what does your organization want?
Wilderness or a national monument?
Mr. Johnson. Well, at the end of the day what we want to
see happen is whatever we can get done. To be honest, after
this many years, I first came to Washington, DC 30 years ago.
Senator Barrasso. But before any of us.
Mr. Johnson. Right. Right.
To speak to these issues and the fact is we've not been
able to bring the consensus together to get a bill passed in
all that time. For a number of reasons, legislation is the
right path to go. For a number of reasons, wilderness is the
right path to go. It is a higher standard of protection, and
it's one that we have advocated as an organization and as a
conservation community for, literally, generations.
The monument is a good tool, but it is one that has
political cost. There's no question. An Idaho solution is an
Idaho solution, one supported by the majority party of our
state and the delegation certainly is going to have the certain
political resonance that something from the Administration
probably is not. I would also add that there's a certainty of
management that hits the ground on day one with wilderness
designation. It is a clear. You said it is a single tool. It is
a very effective tool to protect land. The management of a
monument is a little more complicated. But in the end also
there's the legislative history. There's been the discussions
about protection of this landscape as wilderness for
generations at this point. And we're really encouraged that we
might have the opportunity to finally get the job done.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
Is it fair to say then that you would be satisfied if
Congress designates these areas as wilderness and would oppose
the monument idea and get others to do the same?
Mr. Johnson. If the bill passes, absolutely. I think we
have done the job if the bill passes.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
Mr. Johnson. However, if the bill doesn't pass--you got it.
Senator Barrasso. Mr. Murphy, with regard to Senator Lee
and Senator Hatch's bill, I want to understand this correctly.
As I read your testimony, the BLM is telling the Subcommittee
it intentionally punted the decision-making livestock grazing
in the monument in 1999 when the agency adopted its resource
management plan. Now here we are 16 years later, and it wants
to put a framework in place through transparent public
processes. You have been managing grazing using the 35-year old
framework plans all the time.
It just seems in your testimony you say you do not support
managing graze lands according to arbitrary targets of use.
Then you say, overall permitted use is at roughly the same
level as it has been since the early 90's and that you have
renewed all expiring livestock grazing permits, leases on the
monument.
If this is all true, I am just not sure why you call the
grazing levels in the bill arbitrary since it is what you are
claiming the BLM has already done.
Can you provide some assurances that BLM will not reduce
grazing levels on the monument through the Livestock Grazing
Management Plan amendment that you are currently preparing?
Mr. Murphy. Senator, thank you for the question.
When the monument plan was initiated, grazing direction,
grazing planning was part of that. The issues became
significant and the grazing component of that plan was tabled.
So at that time when the plan was completed, there was not
land-use level direction for grazing.
Some years later an amendment was initiated to readdress
the grazing. After a few years, it was found that the public
scoping period was wholly inadequate and that was then set
aside, that amendment process. It took some years to garner
support for renewing the land-use planning effort to bring
grazing direction in line with other resource decisions, and in
2012 and 2013 public scoping has begun. And we're in that
process now of addressing grazing management, providing
direction for grazing, integrated with other resources.
Senator Barrasso. You talk about providing direction, and I
think people want to see some certainty. If you oppose setting
grazing levels like S. 365 would do, what will the BLM do to
provide some certainty to the ranching industry and community
that are affected by this, that grazing will actually continue
at current levels?
Mr. Murphy. With the completion of the amendment that's
underway, it'll provide the framework for the basis for
activity plan levels, that will provide the framework for NEPA
for grazing permit renewals and those renewals will be based on
a data-driven process, vegetation, soil, water, air.
When I spoke about the arbitrary number, that has to do
with going back to a period of time, 1996 or any date, and
trying to match that date, the data-driven process will arrive
at a level of grazing management that can be supported and
integrated with other resources.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
Ms. Weldon, in your testimony on S. 472, Senator Heller's
Douglas County bill, you expressed concerns with language that
you say limits the ability of the President to develop new
water facilities that are deemed in the national interest in
any present or future designated wilderness, and you reiterate
this concern in your testimony on Senator Risch's bill. Can you
elaborate on the basis of your concern with this language, and
do you have any examples of the President using that authority
or what might necessitate the use of that authority?
Ms. Weldon. Thanks for your question.
I don't have any examples because I don't think this
provision has been put into use with any wilderness that have
been designated based on our research.
What we're simply doing is affirming the language that is
in the current Wilderness Act of 1964 that states that the
President may authorize and maintain if it's viewed that those
new facilities are in the interest of the public. So it's
affirming what's in the Wilderness Act.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
We will go to a second round of questions. Senator Risch?
Senator Risch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I will try to be brief here.
Rick, one of the biggest criticisms that we have, as the
delegation, have heard in Idaho regarding monument verses
statute is the uncertainty that the monument brings and the
struggle that it is going to take to get it up and running
whereas the bill provides very clear certainty, at least in
most circumstances. What are your thoughts on that?
Mr. Johnson. Well, there's little doubt that the bill would
provide certainty from day one. That's crystal clear.
I would like to just caution, however, that I think that a
monument process such as not unlike the one that has been
underway driven by our organization and in a very broad
coalition. We're reaching out and talking to everybody. We've
done visits with the ranchers and recreation interests. We're
talking to everybody we can possibly meet with. To be honest,
parenthetically, it made me appreciate your job a lot more. You
know, we're the ones actually in the center of the focus.
When a monument is designated, it is based upon a set of
objects and it is based upon a map that is, presumably, built
around the justification. We cannot speak for the White House
or the Administration by any means, but we believe that they
would take the good work that has been done by the coalition on
the ground to build something that reflects Idaho values and we
would hope that and expect that that would happen. We cannot
guarantee that would happen, but we would hope and expect.
Senator Risch. Sure.
Your continued preference is for the legislation at this
point, is that correct?
Mr. Johnson. Correct.
Senator Risch. Second, you were chosen to testify in favor
of this, and as a result of that, are representing lots and
lots of different and varied groups and some groups you are not
used to representing, I might add.
Since you have that responsibility----
Mr. Johnson. And they're probably uncomfortable with it
too, but. [Laughter.]
Senator Risch. You said that, I did not. In any event, the
numbers are really impressive, the number of groups and the
wide diversity. But having said that, do you have anything else
you want to add? Your time was limited at the beginning, in
adding to your testimony as far as what your thoughts, or these
other groups' thoughts, are on the bill?
Mr. Johnson. Well, I think that I would just say that this
is an extraordinary place. And while we are far, thousands of
miles from home, it is important to recognize that spring is
coming in the Boulder-White Clouds, the mountain goats are out
there, the herds of migrating elk, the Pronghorn, the salmon
and steelhead in the rivers and streams. It's an extraordinary
place.
And one of the things that I think is clear is people care
about it deeply for many different respects. It's a large
landscape, has a lot of diverse opportunities to use it. This
bill takes into consideration as much as it possibly can, the
diversity of uses and the diversity of habitats in a future
that really protects this grand part of Idaho.
I would just close by saying it really deserves it. It is
not about us. It's not about, you know, as Mr. Simpson has
said, it's not even about ten years from now. It's about a
hundred years from now. Will the resources that are found there
today be there for future generations? And I think this bill is
an extraordinary effort to bring people together.
Senator Risch. Thank you.
I think that regardless of where people are on this issue
there is not anyone who would disagree with the word that you
just uttered in that regard. This is one of the most remarkable
places in the world. You can travel all over the world, but you
would always remember your trip to the Boulder-White Clouds. It
is truly unique.
Tim, finish up your work here and get back to Idaho. We
have a little sage grouse problem you may have heard of and we
need your help on that.
For those of you who are interested in looking to the
future, here in the audience today we have people representing
the Scotchman's Peak area of North Idaho, another, probably the
next candidate in Idaho. It may be in my fourth or fifth term
in this job, I do not know. I hope you do not have to wait that
long, but there is no doubt that there will be a movement. I
want to complement them right now. They have seen and picked up
on the collaborative method by which these public lands issues
have been resolved in Idaho. They have been moving forward in
that regard. They have been making substantial progress, and
indeed have an impressive list of people who are supporting
their work in that regard. So this Committee will, in all
likelihood, in the future be seeing them. Is that okay with
you, Rick?
Mr. Johnson. I'm all in. [Laughter.]
Senator Risch. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, thank you so much for your time. Thank you
for holding the hearing.
Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Risch.
Senator Heinrich, second round of questions? No?
Hearing no other questions, members may also submit
followup written questions for the record. The record will be
open for the next two weeks.
Senator Barrasso. I want to thank all of you for being here
today, for your time and your testimony.
The hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:35 p.m. the hearing was adjourned.]
APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED
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