    [Senate Hearing 114-380]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 114-380

             PENDING PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING LEGISLATION

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

               SUBCOMMITTEE ON PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING

                                    OF THE

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                          ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                       ON

            S. 160/H.R. 373                                     S. 814

            S. 365                                              S. 815

            S. 472                                              S. 1240

            S. 583
                                   __________

                                  MAY 21, 2015

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

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             Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov

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                   COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND NATURAL RESOURCES

                        LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Chairman
    JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming               MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
    JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                RON WYDEN, Oregon
    MIKE LEE, Utah                       BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
    JEFF FLAKE, Arizona                  DEBBIE STABENOW, Michigan
    STEVE DAINES, Montana                AL FRANKEN, Minnesota
    BILL CASSIDY, Louisiana              JOE MANCHIN III, West Virginia
    CORY GARDNER, Colorado               MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico
    ROB PORTMAN, Ohio                    MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
    JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota            ANGUS S. KING, JR., Maine
    LAMAR ALEXANDER, Tennessee           ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts
    SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia

               Subcommittee on Public Lands, Forests, and Mining

                            JOHN BARRASSO, Chairman
    SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO                 RON WYDEN
    JAMES E. RISCH                       DEBBIE STABENOW
    MIKE LEE                             AL FRANKEN
    STEVE DAINES                         JOE MANCHIN III
    BILL CASSIDY                         MARTIN HEINRICH
    CORY GARDNER                         MAZIE K. HIRONO
    JOHN HOEVEN                          ELIZABETH WARREN
    JEFF FLAKE
    LAMAR ALEXANDER
                        Karen K. Billups, Staff Director
                    Patrick J. McCormick III, Chief Counsel
       Lucy Murfitt, Senior Counsel and Natural Resources Policy Director
               Angela Becker-Dippmann, Democratic Staff Director
                    Sam E. Fowler, Democratic Chief Counsel
                    David Brooks, Democratic General Counsel

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                       Page
    Barrasso, Hon. John, Subcommittee Chairman and a U.S. Senator
      from Wyoming...................................................     1
    Wyden, Hon. Ron, Subcommittee Ranking Member and a U.S. Senator
      from Oregon....................................................     2
    Risch, Hon. James E., U.S. Senator from Idaho....................   107
    Heinrich, Hon. Martin, U.S. Senator from New Mexico..............   108
    Heller, Hon. Dean, U.S. Senator from Nevada......................   108
    Lee, Hon. Mike, U.S. Senator from Utah...........................   178

                                   WITNESSES

    Weldon, Leslie, Deputy Chief, National Forest System, Forest
      Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture........................   111
    Murphy, Timothy, Acting Assistant Director, National Conservation
      Lands & Community Partnerships, Bureau of Land Management, U.S.
      Department of the Interior.....................................   121
    Johnson, Rick, Executive Director, Idaho Conservation League.....   137
    Stevenson, Brett, Board of Directors, Wood River Bicycle
      Coalition......................................................   156

              ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL SUBMITTED

    Barrasso, Hon. John:
        Opening Statement............................................     1
    Board of County Commissioners, Douglas County, Nevada:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   201
    Catlin, Dr. James:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   232
    Confederated Tribes of the Coos, Lower Umpqua, and Siuslaw
      Indians:
        Statement for the Record.....................................     4
    Garfield County (Utah):
        Letter for the Record........................................   248
    Hatch, Hon. Orrin:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   250
    Hedden, Willard:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   253
    Heinrich, Hon. Martin:
        Opening Statement............................................   108
    Heller, Hon. Dean:
        Opening Statement............................................   108
    Idaho Recreation Council:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   260
    Johnson, Rick:
        Opening Statement............................................   137
        Written Testimony............................................   139
    Kane County (Utah) Board of Commissioners:
        Letter for the Record........................................   262
    King Klein, Carole:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   264
    Lee, Hon. Mike:
        Opening Statement............................................   178
    McKee, Norman:
        Letter for the Record........................................   265
    Murphy, Timothy:
        Opening Statement............................................   121
        Written Testimony............................................   123
        Responses to Questions for the Record........................   199
    PeopleForBikes:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   267
    (The) Pew Charitable Trusts:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   269
    Public Lands Council, et al:
        Letter for the Record........................................   180
    Risch, Hon. James E.:
        Opening Statement............................................   107
    (The) Sawtooth Society:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   272
    Sorenson, Craig and Ramoma:
        Letter for the Record........................................   275
    Stevenson, Brett:
        Opening Statement............................................   156
        Written Testimony............................................   158
    Trudeau, Mimi:
        Letter for the Record........................................   278
    U.S. Department of the Interior:
        Statement for the Record regarding S. 160/H.R. 373...........   280
    Utah Cattlemen's Association:
        Statement for the Record.....................................   182
    Utah Farm Bureau Federation:
        Letter for the Record........................................   185
    Watts, Kevin:
        Letter for the Record........................................   282
    Weldon, Leslie:
        Opening Statement............................................   111
        Written Testimony............................................   113
    Wolverton, Bill:
        Letter for the Record........................................   285
    Wyden, Hon. Ron:
        Opening Statement............................................     2

    ----------
    The text for each of the bills which were addressed in this hearing can
    be found on the committee's website at: http://www.energy.senate.gov/
    public/index.cfm/hearings-and-business-meetings?ID=9FE456B6-AB07-405C-
    81EE-D58980D7BE02.

             PENDING PUBLIC LANDS, FORESTS, AND MINING LEGISLATION

                                  ----------

                             THURSDAY, MAY 21, 2015

                                           U.S. Senate,
                     Committee on Energy and Natural Resources,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:30 p.m. in
    Room SD-366, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. John
    Barrasso, Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN BARRASSO, U.S. SENATOR FROM
                                WYOMING

        Senator Barrasso. The Subcommittee will come to order.
        This is our first legislative hearing in the Public Lands,
    Forests and Mining Subcommittee this Congress. The purpose of
    today's hearing is to receive testimony on seven bills pending
    before the Subcommittee.
        Four of these bills were considered by the Subcommittee in
    the last Congress. The four bills are S. 160/H.R. 370, Senator
    Heller and Representative Hecht's bill to expedite Good
    Samaritan Search and Rescue Operations. This one is important
    to help bring closure to families of missing persons as quickly
    as possible. S. 814 and S. 815, Senator Wyden's Tribal Land
    Conveyance bills in Oregon; and, S. 1240, Senator Heinrich's
    bill to designate two new wilderness areas in the Rio Grande
    del Norte National Monument in Northern New Mexico.
        We will update the records of the four bills and allow
    members, especially those who are new to the Subcommittee, an
    opportunity to ask any questions that they might have.
        The remaining three bills are new to the Subcommittee. S.
    365, was introduced by Senator Hatch and co-sponsored by
    Senator Lee. This bill will restore grazing levels in the Grand
    Staircase Escalante National Monument and provide needed
    certainty to the family ranching operations and communities
    located there. This is one of President Clinton's Antiquity Act
    monuments which is still causing reverberations in Utah today.
        S. 472, another bill from Senator Heller, will authorize
    several land conveyances to facilitate sensible development in
    Douglas County in Nevada. The Federal Government controls over
    50 percent of the land base in this one county, so it is not
    surprising that the county has come to Congress for help.
        Finally, S. 583, Senator Risch's Sawtooth National
    Recreation Area and Jerry Peak Wilderness additions bills.
    Senator Risch will have an opportunity to speak to them
    shortly.
        First let me turn to the Ranking Member, Senator Wyden, for
    his remarks.

         STATEMENT OF HON. RON WYDEN, U.S. SENATOR FROM OREGON

        Senator Wyden. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I just
    want to say at the outset since this is our first forestry
    hearing that I am very much looking forward to working with you
    on these issues.
        Mr. Chairman, I also see our friend and colleague from
    Idaho, Senator Risch here, and we all work together on these
    issues often.
        I can remember when I was Chairman of this Subcommittee. It
    is an important Subcommittee particularly for those of us from
    the West trying to find fresh, creative approaches to deal with
    the challenges, it is especially important to our constituents.
        Let me make a quick apology to our guests from Idaho. We
    know that it is a challenge getting back here. I apologize, I
    am busy with the Trade bill on the floor, so I am going to have
    to chase off here in a moment but look forward to working with
    you all.
        Of course, Ms. Weldon and Mr. Murphy, two professionals
    that we have worked with often and we are glad to have you
    here. Again, my apologies with respect to not being able to
    stay.
        Chairman Barrasso was kind enough to let me make some brief
    remarks with respect to two important bills from my
    constituents, Oregon tribal bills, S. 814 and 815.
        The Coos, Lower Umpqua and Siuslaw Indians and the Cow
    Creek band of Umpqua Tribe of Indians have waited a long, long
    time for these bills. I am glad that they are being heard once
    again in the Committee.
        This is the second Congress that I have introduced these
    bills individually and as part of my O and C lands legislation,
    and I hope it will finally be the end of the discussion and we
    will act on them.
        It is long past time for Congress to do the right thing and
    designate these lands as tribal lands, righting a wrong that
    happened long ago but still impacts tribal members in my state
    and across the country. Termination era policies are a shameful
    part of American history with long standing impact on the
    nation's first peoples.
        The Cow Creek and Coos Tribes were restored to Federal
    recognition in the 1980's but have yet to regain any land.
    These tribes deserve the right to exercise their tribal
    sovereignty, to grow an economy, support and protect tribal
    members, embrace and celebrate their cultural and religious
    priorities and raise new generations of tribal members who
    understand the importance of their heritage. In order to do
    that they have got to have a land base to call home.
        The two bills will convey more than 17,000 acres and more
    than 14,000 acres of land that is now managed by the Bureau of
    Land Management to the Secretary of the Interior to hold in
    trust for the Cow Creek Band of Umpqua Tribe of Indians and the
    Confederated Tribes of Coos, Lower Umpqua and Siuslaw Indians,
    respectfully.
        Both the Cow Creek and the Coos Tribes testified before the
    Subcommittee in a hearing on November 20, 2013, and they are
    going to submit written testimony today to, once again, stress
    the importance of these bills to their tribal sovereignty and
    the future of their tribal members.
        [The information referred to follows.]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Wyden. So I look forward to working again with my
    colleagues, Chairman Barrasso and Senator Risch. I also see
    Senator Heinrich here. We have worked together often and well
    on these issues. I look forward to that cooperation to finally
    close the book on this and give the Coos, Lower Umpqua and
    Siuslaw Indians and the Cow Creek Band of Umpqua Tribe of
    Indians the land base they richly deserve.
        Again, Mr. Chairman, thank you and my apologies for the
    hectic nature of the next few hours. I look forward to working
    with you.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Wyden, for your
    efforts on this issue as well as so many that you are so
    heavily involved with in the Senate.
        Thank you.
        Senator Risch, I would like to turn to you.

       STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES E. RISCH, U.S. SENATOR FROM IDAHO

        Senator Risch. Thank you very much.
        Senator Wyden, before you go, thank you for your work on,
    fire on Western acres. It has been a pleasure working with you
    on timber issues, and I look forward to continuing.
        Senator Wyden. Big thanks.
        Senator Risch. To the Chairman, thank you so much for
    holding this hearing.
        Senate bill 583 is a companion bill to House bill 1138.
    They are exactly and precisely the same, even in the
    punctuation in the bill.
        We have people here who are experts on this matter who are
    going to testify here today.
        What these two bills do is add additional wilderness acres
    in Idaho. This has a long history, and I cannot go any further
    without saying that Congressman Simpson is the hero on this. He
    has worked at this tirelessly. He has had to back up and retool
    and start over again, at least once that I am familiar with,
    and he has done really a magnificent job of bringing people
    together.
        This bill is truly the work of the collaboration process to
    which a lot of people in this room subscribe and with which
    they are very familiar.
        We have here from Idaho, Mr. Rick Johnson, who is head of
    the flagship, if I might say so, conservation organization in
    Idaho. I had the privilege and honor of working with Mr.
    Johnson when I was Governor as he helped me craft a roadless
    rule for the State of Idaho, not just me, but it was lots and
    lots of people that did that.
        I am always happy to brag that we have the only, not
    withstanding Colorado, with all due respect, it is not exactly
    the same, but we have virtually the only roadless rule in the
    United States that has been approved and been approved all the
    way through the Ninth Circuit Court. Our litigation is over in
    that regard. We have really put the cap on 40 some years of
    litigation and arguing, and brought some common sense and, most
    of all, some stability to the issue.
        Mr. Johnson, who has been deeply, deeply, involved in this
    particular bill, is here to help us today.
        I can say that Representative Simpson has really brought a
    consensus to this and has virtually everybody on board with all
    due respect to Ms. Stevenson, who represents the Mountain
    Bikers and who is in disagreement with the bill. However, I
    understand that her objections are the same objections that are
    in every wilderness bill. Although she will correct me I am
    sure if I am wrong on that, but that is that you cannot use the
    bicycles in the wilderness areas which is really not something
    we wanted to tackle in this bill and really should not be
    tackling in this bill.
        To my two friends from the Federal Government, I understand
    they are going to state their concerns, as they always do. The
    fact that there are 907 acres in this bill that are actually
    conveyed out of the hands of the U.S. Government. Now to put
    this in perspective, they are conveyed to public agencies to be
    used only for a public purpose since the Forest Service owns
    and controls 20 plus million acres in the State of Idaho, and
    the BLM owns and controls almost 12 million acres in the State
    of Idaho. And this bill only conveys 907 acres. I will
    apologize already that you will not see me tear up over the
    fact that this does convey 907 acres out of the hands of the
    Federal Government.
        So, with that, this is a great compromise. It is well done.
    It is something that is really in the best interest of the
    people of the State of Idaho.
        With that, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding the
    hearing.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Risch.
        Senator Heinrich, I invite you to make any comments you
    would like.

    STATEMENT OF HON. MARTIN HEINRICH, U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO

        Senator Heinrich. Thank you, Chairman Barrasso. I really
    want to thank you for including my bill, the Sueldos del Norte
    Conservation Act, on today's agenda.
        This is a bill that would establish two wilderness areas
    within the Rio Grande del Norte National Monument. These two
    areas were part of the original legislative proposal for this
    area that Senator Bingaman introduced in the Senate that I was
    a co-sponsor of in the House, and it really helps further the
    community vision for this landscape.
        I also want to put in a plug for Senator Risch's bill. My
    mother's side of the family is from Idaho, places like Twin
    Falls and Buhl. I have been watching this community effort for
    many, many years. I got a chance to work with Congressman
    Simpson in the House a little bit on these issues, and I think
    this is a very balanced approach. I appreciate all the work
    that has gone into it.
        Senator Risch. I appreciate that.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
        Now, I would like to ask and invite Senator Heller for any
    comments he would like to make on his legislation.

        STATEMENT OF HON. DEAN HELLER, U.S. SENATOR FROM NEVADA

        Senator Heller. Mr. Chairman, thank you.
        I was just wondering, if there is any place Senator
    Heinrich is not from. [Laughter.]
        Senator Heller. Since he----
        Senator Heinrich. Well they did move down to----
        Senator Heller. To Fallon, Nevada.
        Senator Heinrich. To Fallon from Idaho. So. [Laughter.]
        Senator Heller. That is wonderful.
        Anyway, Mr. Chairman, thank you and Senator Wyden for
    including my bills to address a couple of very difficult public
    lands issues that Nevada is facing.
        As you know, Mr. Chairman, prompt action on these types of
    bills is extremely important and the well being of us Western
    States. So thank you very much, again, for holding this
    hearing.
        As you know, the Federal Government administers roughly 85
    percent of the land in Nevada, the highest percentage of any
    state in the nation. This presents our local and state
    governments with many unique challenges. Those communities
    often work closely with the congressional delegation to develop
    bills to improve public land management.
        Last Congress I was proud to work with Chairman Murkowski
    on the Public Lands package. It was ultimately enacted into law
    as part of the National Defense Authorization Act. The eight
    Nevada bills included in that package were the culmination of
    nearly a decade worth of work on public lands bills, and I
    appreciate the Chairman's leadership on these issues.
        I hope my two bills here before us today will be the next
    in these public lands successes.
        Douglas County Conservation Act, the first one, is a
    grassroots-driven proposal that balances the needs to spur
    economic development while preserving our state's western
    character.
        In 2009, Douglas County embarked on a long process to
    develop legislation that adjusts Federal land ownership and
    management throughout the economy. Over the course of six years
    they performed outreach activities, held a series of community
    open houses, obtained the input of stakeholder groups and
    several hundred thousand community members. Ultimately the
    Board of Commissioners unanimously approved the framework of a
    bill and requested that Congress move forward.
        As a result, Representative Amodei, Senator Reid and I
    introduced the bill in February with the support of our entire
    congressional delegation. The final product jump-starts
    economic development throughout Douglas County while ensuring
    the rural character of Carson Valley remains intact.
        Specifically, it conveys lands to local governments and the
    Washoe Tribe for important public works projects. Additionally
    it would promote conservation of riparian and the state sage
    grouse habitat along the Carson River and improve recreation
    opportunities.
        I want to particularly underscore the conveyance of flood
    control management areas and important water resource
    infrastructure parcels to Douglas County which are critical to
    the long term economic competitiveness of the region. Four
    flash flood events that occurred in July and August 2014,
    ravaged the region causing more than a $1 million worth of
    damage throughout the area. The county has started construction
    on two projects to reduce the flood risks and conducted
    additional studies to identify additional flood risks.
        Whereas out East, local governments can acquire land on
    their own to build public works projects; unfortunately out
    West, as you know as well as I do, we have to get congressional
    approval.
        These conveyances are critical to the county's long-term
    flood control and transportation planning efforts. This bill
    was developed from the bottom-up, not the top-down, the way
    public lands bills should be written. As a result, it has
    garnered nearly unanimous local support ranging from the Washoe
    Tribe to local towns and general improvement districts.
        My second bill, the Good Samaritans Search and Recovery
    Act, would solve a long-standing public safety issue on public
    lands. Congressman Joe Hecht and I first introduced this
    legislation in 2013 in response to the tragic stories of Mr.
    Keith Goldberg and Air Force Staff Sergeant Antonio Tucker.
    Both of these individuals were missing for over a year before
    volunteer, Good Samaritan rescue teams received Government
    authorization to begin searching.
        Keith Goldberg, a Las Vegas taxi cab driver disappeared on
    January 31st, 2012. He was believed to be a victim of murder,
    but the police were unable to find his remains in the Las Vegas
    desert. When new evidence pointed toward the Lake Mead
    Recreation Area, the Goldberg family reached out to a private
    search and rescue team to look for Keith. All that prevented
    the rescue team from discovering the body was the bureaucratic
    red tape of the Park Service which refused to allow them to
    search the area without a permit and a $1 million insurance
    policy. After the family spent six months finding an insurer
    and raising the money to buy the policy, Keith's body was found
    within two hours.
        Staff Sergeant Antonio Tucker's family suffered a similar
    frustrating ordeal. Staff Sergeant Tucker was stationed at
    Creech Air Force Base when he went missing on June 23rd, 2012.
    He was believed drowned.
        Like the situation with Keith Goldberg, a search team
    offered to look for Staff Sergeant Tucker but was blocked by
    the Department of the Interior. When the team finally received
    authorization to search nearly a year later, they found the
    body in two days.
        No family should have to go through what the Goldberg and
    Tucker families have had to endure. This bipartisan, common
    sense legislation that expedites access to public lands for
    search and recovery organizations has been thoroughly vetted in
    this Congress. It has had multiple hearings between the House
    and Senate, attracting no significant opposition, and last year
    it passed the House by a vote of 413 to zero. I am confident it
    can garner similar overwhelming support in the Senate, so let's
    get this done.
        Again, thank you for the opportunity, Mr. Chairman, for
    allowing me to testify today. I look forward to working
    together to move these bipartisan proposals through the U.S.
    Congress.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you very much, Senator Heller.
        It is now time to hear from our witnesses. Ms. Leslie
    Weldon is the Deputy Chief of the U.S. Forest Service; Mr. Tim
    Murphy is the Acting Assistant Director for the Bureau of Land
    Management; Mr. Rick Johnson is the Executive Director for the
    Idaho Conservation League; and, Ms. Brett Stevenson is the
    Board of Director member for the Wood River Bicycle Coalition.
        At the end of the witness testimony, we will begin
    questions. Your full written testimony will be made part of the
    official hearing, so please keep your statements to five
    minutes so that we may have time for questions.
        We look forward to hearing your testimony beginning with
    Ms. Weldon. Would you please proceed?

       STATEMENT OF LESLIE WELDON, DEPUTY CHIEF, NATIONAL FOREST
         SYSTEM, FOREST SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

        Ms. Weldon. Thank you, Chairman Barrasso and members of the
    Subcommittee for the opportunity to present views of the U.S.
    Department of Agriculture regarding S. 160, the Good Samaritan
    Search and Recovery Act; S. 472, the Douglas County
    Conservation Act; and S. 583, the Sawtooth National Recreation
    Area and Jerry Peak Wilderness Additions Act.
        I'd like to begin with S. 160 which the Department supports
    with just minor technical corrections and amendments.
        One provision of S. 160 would direct the Secretary of
    Agriculture to develop and implement a process to expedite
    access to National Forest System lands for eligible
    organizations and individuals to conduct Good Samaritan search
    and recovery missions for missing individuals presumed to be
    deceased at the time the search is initiated.
        This and the desired intent of the act, which is to allow
    expedited access to Federal lands for search and recovery
    missions, are substantially consistent with current Forest
    Service policies and guidelines governing these types of
    activities and access. However, the provisions requiring
    development and implementation of a process to expedite access
    may be a bit redundant with some of the work in the process
    that we already have in place on the National Forest System.
        The Forest Service right now participates as a strong
    partner in coordination and leadership with local law
    enforcement agencies who are our lead in leading search and
    rescue and subsequent recovery missions. We value local law
    enforcement agencies and the talent and commitment they bring
    in leading these coordinated efforts. We also acknowledge the
    critical importance to family and friends of timely recovery.
        Regardless of the ultimate outcome of the congressional
    consideration of S. 160, the Forest Service is committed to
    working with all organizations and dedicated men and women who
    volunteer their time and expertise to assist in the search and
    recovery of those that are missing.
        The Douglas County Conservation Act of 2015. With that, I'd
    like to bring up just a couple of points covered in my written
    testimony.
        In general regarding land conveyances, the Department's
    interest is to see that the public is appropriately compensated
    for lands that are taken out of public ownership. In Section
    102 regarding the concessionaires at Round Hill Pines
    Management Area and Zephur Shoals Management Area, we'd like to
    continue and encourage the efforts that are happening on the
    ground now to look for solutions to ensure that we are
    providing the best public services we can through the
    concessionaires in place for these very popular recreation
    sites. We believe that locally-developed solutions would carry
    more ownership for all parties involved.
        In Section 2 or Title 2, Section 201 regarding the transfer
    of the identified NFS lands to the Department of Interior to be
    held in trust for the benefit of the Washoe Tribe, I'd like to
    add that in addition to supporting this bill, the Forest
    Service continues to work with the tribes and maintains
    communications on numerous current issues of concern to both
    parties as part of our government-to-government relationships.
        Regarding S. 583, to Senator Risch and Congressman Simpson,
    we really express our appreciation for your emphasis and focus
    for supporting this bill. As it was said earlier, it's been a
    long time in the making and we're glad to see this kind of
    progress. We'd like to echo the support from all the local
    levels involved in bringing this solution forward.
        The Department supports the bill as it applies to lands
    managed by the Forest Service, and we defer to the Department
    of Interior for matters concerning land administration by the
    BLM.
        The Department supports designation of Hemmingway, Boulder-
    White Clouds and Jim A. McClure-Jerry Peak Wilderness. Most of
    the National Forest System makers that would be designated are
    already part of their respective forest plans for the area, and
    that National Forest System acres that would be designated by
    the bill, not recommended, are part of previously identified
    roadless areas.
        So we would just like to emphasize our support for this
    bill. And appreciate the efforts to continue it moving forward.
        And I'm available to take any questions that you have.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Weldon follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Ms. Weldon.
        Mr. Murphy?

        STATEMENT OF TIMOTHY MURPHY, ACTING ASSISTANT DIRECTOR,
    NATIONAL CONSERVATION LANDS & COMMUNITY PARTNERSHIPS, BUREAU OF
            LAND MANAGEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

        Mr. Murphy. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Ranking
    Member and members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the
    opportunity to discuss the seven bills being considered by the
    Committee today.
        I'm Tim Murphy, BLM State Director for Idaho and currently
    acting as the BLM's Assistant Director for National
    Conservation Lands and Community Partnerships. The BLM looks
    forward to working with the Committee to address the important
    issues raised by these bills.
        I'm accompanied by Simeon Clevenger, Acting Deputy Director
    for Emergency Services at the National Park Service. He's
    available to respond to questions related to the Park Service
    or to H.R. 373 and S. 160, the Good Samaritan Search and
    Recovery Act.
        The Department supports S. 160 and H.R. 373 with
    amendments. These bills would require the Secretary of Interior
    and Agriculture to develop and implement a process to expedite
    access to Federal lands for Good Samaritan search and rescue
    missions. We'd like to work with the Committee to amend these
    bills as outlined in the National Park Service statement for
    the record to allow expedited access for search and recovery
    missions without complicating existing procedures or causing
    unintended impacts to relationships between Federal agencies
    and search organizations.
        S. 365 directs the BLM to develop a management program to
    improve rangeland conditions and restore livestock raising to
    the level of use that existed prior to the designation of the
    Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument. The BLM supports
    the bill's goal of improving the rangeland health and
    supporting grazing within the Grand Staircase Escalante
    National Monument, and we support the use of existing
    regulations to address grazing permit renewals, but the BLM
    does not support grazing use targets that are drawn or set in
    an arbitrary number. We look forward to working with the
    sponsor on this issue.
        S. 472, the Douglas County Conservation Act, authorizes
    Federal land conveyances and sales in Douglas County, Nevada.
    It directs the Secretary of Interior to take into trust
    approximately 1,000 acres of Federal land for the benefit of
    the Washoe Tribe of Nevada and California and designates about
    12,000 acres of Burbank Canyon's wilderness. The BLM generally
    supports the goals of the bill as it pertains to BLM and we'd
    like the opportunity to work with the sponsors and Subcommittee
    to address the various issues including paleontological
    resources issues, fund management, language ensuring uniform
    appraisal standards and practice and other technical issues.
        S. 583, the Sawtooth National Recreation Area and Jerry
    Peak Wilderness Additions Act, would designate three wilderness
    areas in Central Idaho including two that would be partially
    managed by the BLM. These lands contain outstanding wildlife
    habitat and beautiful mountain terrain. The legislation also
    includes several conveyances to local government. The BLM
    supports this legislation and commends Senator Risch,
    Congressman Simpson, and the Idaho Delegation for their hard
    work over many years of this proposal. We look forward to
    continuing to work with the delegation on the proposal.
        S. 814, the Oregon Coastal Land Conveyance Act and S. 815,
    the Cow Creek Umpqua Land Conveyance Act would together provide
    roughly 32,000 acres of BLM managed lands in Western Oregon to
    be held in trust on the behalf of the Confederated Tribes of
    Coos, Lower Umpqua and Siuslaw Indians and the Cow Creek Band
    of the Umpqua Tribe of Indians. The BLM welcomes the
    opportunity to work with Congress on the transfer of lands into
    trust status and supports the goals of S. 814 and S. 815. We'd
    like the opportunity to work with the sponsor and the Committee
    to address various issues with the bill.
        S. 1240, the Cerros del Norte Conservation Act would
    designate two new wilderness areas, about 21,000 acres within
    the Rio Grande del Norte National Monument in New Mexico. These
    new wilderness areas would protect the Ute Mountain, a
    centerpiece within the monument that's home to elk and other
    wildlife and the Rio San Antonio which contains a rugged gorge
    that offers opportunities for solitude. The BLM appreciates the
    sponsor's work on this legislation and supports the bill.
        In conclusion, thank you again for the opportunity to be
    here today to discuss these seven bills. I'd be glad to answer
    any questions that you may have.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Murphy follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Murphy.
        Mr. Johnson?

         STATEMENT OF RICK JOHNSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, IDAHO
                          CONSERVATION LEAGUE

        Mr. Johnson. I am Rick Johnson. I'm the Executive Director
    of the Idaho Conservation League. I'm here to speak to S. 583.
        Our organization has supported wilderness protection for
    the Boulder-White Clouds since our founding 40 years ago. The
    Boulder and White Cloud Mountains are a crown jewel of Idaho
    and deserve permanent protection, and we have been here before
    to talk about this.
        In June 2010 when I appeared at this table, Senator Risch
    along with the entire Idaho delegation had just introduced a
    version of this bill. During the hearing Senator Risch
    expressed reservations. He told us that the bill needed more
    compromise. There has now been more compromise, and there is
    now much more support.
        Once again, respectful of compromise, respectful of the
    legislative process, I am here to speak in support of this
    bill.
        The Idaho Conservation League has worked with
    Representative Mike Simpson for well over a decade on this
    legislation. We worked with Senators Jim Risch and Mike Crapo
    for a long time on this too. While we all get points for
    persistence, this is not about us. This is about the future of
    the Boulder and White Cloud Mountains. This is a very special
    place. These mountain ranges contain the headwaters of four
    major rivers and are home to some of the highest elevation
    salmon habitat on Earth.
        This is a landscape of summer and winter range for big game
    and critical habitat for endangered and allusive species like
    wolverine. It is also an unparalleled resource for many
    different recreational pursuits. The wild heart of the Boulder-
    White Clouds deserves the highest protection possible, and
    wilderness designation provides that.
        It would also create the first designated wilderness in the
    Wood River Valley, a community that supports strong land
    protection and has long been supportive of this effort.
        It is time to get the job done. One way or another
    prospects for protecting the Boulder-White Clouds have never
    been better. Many believe a bill written by the Idaho
    Delegation is the best path. I asked the delegation who else is
    on board? Their response is much different than it was five
    years ago. The support today is remarkable.
        The Idaho Outfitters and Guides Association is supportive.
    Local ranchers are supportive. The Idaho Cattle Association and
    the Idaho Farm Bureau, never wilderness advocates, have
    indicated they will not stand in the way. Idaho water users are
    supporters of the water protections. The Sawtooth Society is
    supportive as is the Custer County Commission. The Idaho
    Recreation Council represents motorized trail bikes and
    snowmobile users and they are not opposed. And many
    conservationists support this bill including the Idaho
    Conservation League, who I represent, the Wilderness Society
    and the Pew Charitable Trust. We have also heard from
    individual mountain bikers who support, if not formal
    organizations. The biking groups would like access to all
    groups, and I sympathize and recognize that compromise is hard.
        Compromise has been hard for our interests as well. If the
    bill passes there will, regretfully, be 57,000 fewer acres as
    wilderness than in the previous version of this bill. There are
    significant parts of the Boulder-White Clouds that are not
    included here that we always assumed would be ultimately
    protected. No one suggests this bill is perfect. It is not how
    I would have written it, but Senator Jim Risch and
    Representative Mike Simpson have long demonstrated that in
    order to govern, we cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the
    good.
        There has never been such broad consensus around
    legislation for the Boulder-White Clouds. As we all know, there
    are other options for protection being discussed. This hearing
    is an important step, and I applaud Senator Risch and the
    Committee for holding this hearing. I know it took a lot of
    work and I appreciate that. There are many more steps ahead,
    however. The road is long, and the time is very short. One way
    or another, it's time to permanently protect this landscape and
    this bill would do that.
        Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I look
    forward to questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Johnson follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Mr. Johnson.
        Ms. Stevenson?

     STATEMENT OF BRETT STEVENSON, BOARD OF DIRECTORS, WOOD RIVER
                           BICYCLE COALITION

        Ms. Stevenson. Thank you, Chairman Barrasso and
    distinguished members of the Committee for the opportunity to
    weigh in on S. 583. It is an honor and privilege to provide
    local perspective on issues that are critical to our quality of
    life and local economy.
        My name is Brett Stevenson, and I am a native of Idaho. My
    parents left their careers in San Francisco before I was born
    in search of something new, fresh and wholesome. They
    discovered the Wood River Valley.
        They bought land and started farming. We have become
    MillerCoors' Showcase Barley Farm, a distinction earned by,
    among other things, making irrigation adjustments to save over
    150,000,000 gallons of water annually and consistently growing
    excellent barley.
        After school I returned home to be a land-use planner for
    Blaine County. Five years later I went to work with Rick
    Johnson at the Idaho Conservation League. In 2012, I left ICL
    to help on the family ranch where it's all hands on deck to try
    to improve water management in our depleted basin.
        Connections to the land and the community are what make the
    Wood River Valley more than just where we live. It's where we
    thrive.
        Today I'm speaking on behalf of the Wood River Bicycle
    Coalition, a chapter of the International Mountain Bicycling
    Association (IMBA). We applaud Senator Risch and Congressman
    Simpson for their work on this issue, so it is with some
    disappointment that we find ourselves in opposition to this
    proposed legislation.
        The Bike Coalition and IMBA support enhanced protection of
    the Boulder-White Clouds and Jerry Peak areas; however, in this
    case we do not believe that wilderness is the most appropriate
    solution. The Boulder-White Clouds play a critical role between
    the Sun Valley Resort and the Sawtooth Frank Church River of No
    Return Wilderness Areas. It completes the full spectrum of the
    areas draw attracting recreationalists of all kinds which is
    critical to our tourism-based economy.
        Biking contributed $33,000,000 to our local economy in a
    single season. Closing these marquee trails to biking closes a
    crucial marketing element to the local economy. Our local
    businesses support protection coupled with continued bicycle
    access.
        Many Americans live in urban settings with limited outdoor
    recreational experiences, yet we're all aware of the
    transformative and beneficial effects of adventures in the
    natural, rugged environments. These experiences provide
    rejuvenation, inspiration and perspective. In short, they make
    us better people.
        The trend away from active recreation is concerning;
    however, one bright spot is bikes. The Outdoor Industry
    Association reports bicycling is the top outdoor activity for
    youth.
        The growth in the National Interscholastic Cycling
    Association, including the brand new Idaho league, demonstrates
    this trend in youth involvement. Backcountry rides like Ants
    Basin and Castle Divide develop determination, confidence, and
    ultimately an appreciation for the natural world and our place
    in it. These aspirational experiences are invaluable and
    irreplaceable and should be encouraged not taken away.
        Select mountain biking trails in the Boulder-White Clouds
    and Jerry Peak area are vastly unique from front country or
    urban biking experiences. Riding here is the only big
    backcountry opportunity for mountain bikers in the entire
    region. It is truly like nothing else.
        We appreciate the permitive use only experiences in the
    nearby Sawtooth and Frank Church Wilderness Areas. Trail impact
    from horses, pack trains and backpackers are similar to, and
    can even be greater than, those of bicyclists. So while this
    bill has accommodated motorized vehicles, Heli-skiing and
    snowmobiles, no consideration has been given to the continued
    use of marquee trails that our community cares so deeply about.
        A wilderness designation eliminates the only backcountry
    bike experience in the area and it also tells bikers and local
    businesses the Idaho Delegation does not consider bicycle
    experience and their contribution to the local economy worth
    protecting.
        This bill does not feel like an Idaho solution. It is not
    reflective of what our community wants. For the most part, we
    want this special place to stay just how it is today.
        In order to achieve that, some level of added protection or
    designation may be necessary but it should be a designation
    that preserves the ecological value and the recreational value,
    particularly when the two are not mutually exclusive.
        The Wilderness Act is a good tool for the protection of
    landscape, habitat and natural splendor; however, it is one
    tool in the legislative tool box. In this case we must ask
    ourselves what is the objective of a new designation, and is
    this bill achieving those goals or is it simply a feather in
    someone's hat?
        Solutions can be crafted using existing policy. Using a
    one-size-fits-all approach at the cost of valued, low-impact,
    recreational opportunities is a disservice to our community and
    future generations.
        The Wood River Bike Coalition and IMBA welcome the
    opportunity to join with other stakeholders and the Idaho
    Delegation to protect these treasured landscapes and the
    recreational experiences they provide. We ask the Committee to
    send this bill back to the delegation for further discussion
    and collaboration.
        Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Stevenson follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Ms. Stevenson.
        Thank you all for your testimony.
        Before we get to the questions, I would like to invite
    Senator Lee to make comments about his piece of legislation.

           STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE LEE, U.S. SENATOR FROM UTAH

        Senator Lee. Thank you, Chairman Barrasso.
        Thanks to all of you for being here today and for the
    insight you have given us.
        The farm and agriculture industry is an essential pillar of
    my state's economy. According to Utah State University
    researchers, the Utah food and agriculture industry makes up
    more than 14 percent of the state's GDP and provides some
    80,000 jobs. This tremendous output results in an economic
    impact totaling $17.5 billion every year.
        Much of Utah's farm industry consists of or relies in one
    way or another on livestock grazing. With more than 25 of the
    state's 29 counties reporting livestock as the dominant
    agricultural sector, livestock represents the single largest
    sector of farm income in Utah.
        Unfortunately, due to restrictions on Federal lands, it is
    increasingly difficult for Utah's ranchers to continue their
    way of life. Utah has 45,000,000 acres classified as rangeland.
    Of that, 33,000,000 acres are owned and controlled by Federal
    land management agencies. Only 8,000,000 acres of Utah's
    rangelands are privately-owned.
        This reality means that Utah's ranchers often find
    themselves at the mercy of Federal employees, Federal policies
    and administrative decisions influenced by outside interests
    groups who have worked to eliminate all grazing on Federally-
    administered lands for the past 30 years or more. Being
    dependent on the whims of Washington has not worked out well
    for Utah's ranchers. Since the late 1940's, BLM and the Forest
    Service have cut or suspended nearly 75 percent of Utah's total
    livestock grazing animal unit months, or AUMs, across the Utah
    landscape, from 5.4 million AUMs in 1949 to just over 2 million
    in 2012.
        Using the Antiquities Act on September 18th, 1996,
    President Clinton issued a proclamation creating the Grand
    Staircase Escalante National Monument with 1.9 million acres of
    Federal land. At the time this designation occurred, the Grand
    Staircase Escalante National Monument was the largest
    Presidentially-created monument outside of Alaska. While using
    the Antiquities Act to further limit activity on another 2
    million acres of Utah land was wholly inappropriate, at least
    President Clinton, at the time, looked to enshrine existing
    grazing rights.
        To this end, to his credit, President Clinton's
    Presidential Proclamation and monument management plan stated
    as follows, ``Nothing in this proclamation shall be deemed to
    affect existing permits or leases for or levels of livestock
    grazing on Federal lands within the monument. Existing grazing
    uses shall continue to be governed by applicable laws and
    regulations other than this proclamation.''
        And yet, since President Clinton issued this proclamation,
    nearly 28 percent of the 106,202 livestock grazing AUMs have
    been suspended. Furthermore, BLM is currently in the process of
    amending its management plan for the monument and is
    considering several options that would either decrease or
    eliminate grazing all together. Additionally, the Grand
    Staircase Escalante National Monument designation under the
    Antiquities Act means that BLM's priorities are not focused on
    improving rangeland conditions for wildlife.
        In concert with Senator Hatch, I have introduced S. 365
    which directs BLM to implement a program to improve rangeland
    conditions for wildlife and livestock carrying capacity in
    those areas and to restore livestock grazing to the level of
    usage in those areas that existed before the monument was
    designated as a monument. This legislation represents an
    opportunity for a rare win/win and will result in improved
    rangeland and sustainable growth for Utah's ranchers.
        If this measure is signed into law, BLM will focus on
    preserving the Grand Staircase Escalante National Monument's
    rangeland by, perhaps, using controlled burns to destroy weeds
    or by removing Pinion and Juniper trees. Restoring forage
    through the improvement of rangeland conditions will allow the
    Grand Staircase Escalante to sustain grazing levels prior to
    its designation as a monument. Healthier rangeland will
    preserve the grazing rights Kane and Garfield County's ranchers
    have used for generations. Improper management of Grand
    Staircase Escalante not only damages the monument but it also
    harms the people that depend on its forage.
        Because S. 365 is a common sense solution, it is no
    surprise that it has received broad support from Utah's
    agriculture and farming industry, the Public Lands Council,
    National Cattlemen's Beef Association, Utah Cattlemen's
    Association, Utah Wool Growers Association and the Utah Farm
    Bureau Federation. They have all endorsed S. 365, and I'd like
    to submit their endorsement letters for the record.
        Senator Barrasso. Without objection.
        [The information referred to follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Senator Lee. Again, I would like to thank the Committee for
    holding a hearing on S. 365 and focusing on a broad array of
    issues affecting public lands.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Lee.
        Now we will begin with questions starting with Senator
    Risch.
        Senator Risch. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        Ms. Stevenson, I am going to start with you, and I want to
    be fair on this. You have heard all the people that support
    this bill. We tried to find a balance and bring in people who
    opposed this legislation, and we were not able to find anyone
    except you. Do you have anybody else that you want to speak up
    for here in opposition to this?
        Ms. Stevenson. Yes. I feel like the past several years of
    collaboration actually are not reflected in this bill. There
    have been a lot of meetings, formal public meetings, and a lot
    of informal meetings. And out of those meetings I think you're
    well aware of the memorandum of understanding between the
    Wilderness Society, Idaho Conservation League, IMBA and the
    Bike Coalition that supports a different avenue, a more
    flexible approach, to achieving the conservation objectives
    that you guys have set out to achieve.
        Also, the city of Ketchum has a resolution that is
    supportive of an alternative of national monument that supports
    recreation. The city of Ketchum is very aware of the value that
    recreation has in local economy and to our local community.
        Blaine County has a similar resolution.
        Additionally, I think we've submitted to you a business
    letter of support asking for a national monument and protecting
    continued mountain biking access. That letter generated around
    60 businesses signing on to that within a week's time. In a
    town of 5,000 people I think that's pretty significant.
        Additionally there is a petition that's circulating online
    asking for support for the national monument. And again, as an
    alternative to wilderness, a more flexible one that would
    support continued bike access. That has gone nationally with
    around, I think, 100,000 signatures and 14,000 of those are
    from Idaho.
        So I don't think it's just me. [Laughter.]
        Ms. Stevenson. Thank you.
        Senator Risch. Well the issue would be that there have been
    people who have taken both positions as far as a monument or a
    bill is concerned, and the testimony here from Mr. Johnson
    lists 25 or 26 of the most diverse groups that there are that
    support this bill.
        The Association of Western Pulp and Paper Workers, Blaine
    County, Boulder-White Clouds' Council, City of Bellevue, City
    of Sun Valley City Council, City of Haley, City Council of the
    City of Ketchum, City Council of the City of Stanley, Camping
    for America's Wilderness, Custer County, Idaho AFL-CIO, the
    National Public Lands Grazing Campaign, a really, really
    diverse group of organizations.
        In addition to that, we have received letters of support on
    the bill from the Idaho Cattle Association, the Idaho Farm
    Bureau, and the East Fork Ranchers. So I appreciate your focus
    on the bicycle situation. As Mr. Johnson pointed out,
    compromise is hard.
        And as I understand it, also in Mr. Johnson's testimony, he
    lists 25 or 26 trails and roads that are going to remain open
    that would not have, under the previous proposals that were
    here. And those include Frog Lake Loop, Trail Loop 047 and 686,
    Germania Trail 111, Grand Prize Trail 112, Washington Basin
    Road 197, and it goes on and on.
        Ms. Stevenson. Yes.
        Senator Risch. So there was compromise in this bill. Would
    you go so far as to agree to that?
        Ms. Stevenson. Well, I would not disagree, I guess. Our
    point is that this bill does close around a dozen trails. We're
    asking for four, and those have not been considered. And I
    think the long list of supporters that you were echoing, I
    don't know if any of them would object to accommodations made
    to a couple additional trails. And I feel like the support for
    continued access on those trails is vast.
        And I don't mean to be suggesting that a national monument
    is the only way to do it. I think there are modifications to
    this bill that could accommodate these goals. You could have a
    non-wilderness corridors or you could do it through a language
    based exceptions within the bill. There are also other options
    like the Wild and Scenic River Act using that model to apply it
    to a land designation.
        So I feel like there are other tools that could
    accommodate, to a farther degree, that could accommodate
    mountain biking interests.
        Senator Risch. Ms. Stevenson, you have made your case here,
    and you have all the way through. I promise public hearings
    mean something.
        Ms. Stevenson. Thank you.
        Senator Risch. What you have just put out I will shop
    again.
        Ms. Stevenson. Thank you.
        Senator Risch. But I have to tell you I am not going to let
    that stand in the way of passing the bill with all the support
    that we have for it. I know you are sincere about this, and I
    know you are proceeding in good faith.
        I think there has been a lot of accommodation in here but
    not as much as you wanted. I understand that. But in the give
    and take process, you never get 100 percent of what you want.
        So with that, I see my time is up and then some. I guess we
    will do a second round in a minute, I hope.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Risch.
        Senator Heinrich?
        Senator Heinrich. Thank you.
        I actually want to ask a quick question, Mr. Murphy, on S.
    365. Shouldn't rangeland condition dictate what your grazing
    levels are?
        Mr. Murphy. Senator, I can qualify an answer to that is
    yes.
        Rangeland management is a data-based undertaking. The Grand
    Staircase Escalante is working under rangeland guidance under a
    land-use plan that's some 35 years old.
        Senator Heinrich. So let's make sure I understand this. Is
    the reductions in grazing levels that we have seen in Grand
    Staircase, have they been driven by the monument designation or
    were they driven by resource issues regarding drought, riparian
    areas, those kinds of things?
        Mr. Murphy. Since the monument designation, I'm not aware
    of any reductions. Average use since 1996 has been
    approximately 55 percent of permitted use.
        Now that actual use is from the rangeland operators.
    Ranchers look at market conditions, vegetative conditions,
    drought. So those are permittees making those adjustments year
    to year.
        Senator Heinrich. If we were to mandate levels, would we be
    potentially locking in levels above what could be sustained in
    drought years?
        Mr. Murphy. In renewing grazing permits has a data-driven
    process now there's the grazing riders that we have used.
        Senator Heinrich. Yes.
        Mr. Murphy. We're seeking to amend the monument plan and
    we're doing that now. That will provide a basis or a framework
    for activity plan work such as using the National Environmental
    Policy Act, a data-driven process, to renew grazing permits.
        Senator Heinrich. Okay.
        Shifting gears to another national monument, the Rio Grande
    del Norte, which I believe has almost the exact same grazing
    language.
        One group that I hear from again and again in support of
    both the monument designation and the current bill as well has
    been local business owners that have seen, at least
    anecdotally, increases in visitation to the area. Is the BLM
    seeing more visitors to the area in the first couple of years
    since the monument designation?
        Mr. Murphy. In preparing for this hearing the information
    that I gathered is that there's been a 40 percent increase in
    visitation to the Taos area based on the monument designation,
    a 30 percent increase in lodging taxes. Folks coming in are
    procuring guide services, buying outdoor equipment, clothing
    and so forth and generally bolstering the economics of the Taos
    area based on their visitation to the monument.
        Senator Heinrich. One last point I will make, just because
    it has been a little bit of a confusing factor in the past, is
    the Rio Grande del Norte National Monument. By virtue of the
    fact that it was a National Conservation Lands designation
    within the Bureau of Land Management, hunting is one of the
    allowed uses as well as fishing. In fact, a buddy of mine last
    year took a monster elk out of the monument. I was jealous. It
    was bigger than the elk I got last fall.
        But I just wanted to put that on the table because it has
    been one of the questions we have received time and again is
    would hunting continue in both the wilderness portions of the
    monument and the monument broadly?
        Mr. Murphy. Hunting would continue and I know that area
    somewhat, in fact family lives in that area. I haven't hunted
    it like you have, but I've seen the elk and I know it's a big
    draw for people locally as well as tourism that will continue.
        Senator Heinrich. Great.
        Thank you very much.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Heinrich.
        Ms. Stevenson, I tend to agree with the statement when you
    say in your testimony that the wilderness is a single tool in
    the legislative toolbox and that there is a lot of space
    between wilderness and multiple use management.
        I do not see establishing a national monument by
    Presidential proclamation as the solution. Much of the area
    that is the subject of this bill is already in a national
    recreation area. Adding additional management layers on top of
    that does not seem like a good idea to me. Continuing
    wilderness study areas or recommended wilderness areas is not a
    solution either, they de facto become wilderness areas.
        So it seems that maybe the real problem you have here is
    that mountain biking is a prohibited activity under the
    Wilderness Act. So I just wonder would amending the Wilderness
    Act to allow for mechanized travel solve the problem?
        Ms. Stevenson. I suppose that would solve the problem, but
    I'm not here today to advocate for that.
        Senator Barrasso. Okay.
        The next question is for Mr. Johnson.
        You spent over a decade working on designating wilderness
    in the Boulder-White Clouds region. You have also teamed up
    more recently with Ms. Stevenson and other stakeholders to ask
    the President to exercise his Antiquity Act's authority to
    proclaim a national monument for the whole area, about 600,000
    plus acres.
        So at the end of the day, what does your organization want?
    Wilderness or a national monument?
        Mr. Johnson. Well, at the end of the day what we want to
    see happen is whatever we can get done. To be honest, after
    this many years, I first came to Washington, DC 30 years ago.
        Senator Barrasso. But before any of us.
        Mr. Johnson. Right. Right.
        To speak to these issues and the fact is we've not been
    able to bring the consensus together to get a bill passed in
    all that time. For a number of reasons, legislation is the
    right path to go. For a number of reasons, wilderness is the
    right path to go. It is a higher standard of protection, and
    it's one that we have advocated as an organization and as a
    conservation community for, literally, generations.
        The monument is a good tool, but it is one that has
    political cost. There's no question. An Idaho solution is an
    Idaho solution, one supported by the majority party of our
    state and the delegation certainly is going to have the certain
    political resonance that something from the Administration
    probably is not. I would also add that there's a certainty of
    management that hits the ground on day one with wilderness
    designation. It is a clear. You said it is a single tool. It is
    a very effective tool to protect land. The management of a
    monument is a little more complicated. But in the end also
    there's the legislative history. There's been the discussions
    about protection of this landscape as wilderness for
    generations at this point. And we're really encouraged that we
    might have the opportunity to finally get the job done.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
        Is it fair to say then that you would be satisfied if
    Congress designates these areas as wilderness and would oppose
    the monument idea and get others to do the same?
        Mr. Johnson. If the bill passes, absolutely. I think we
    have done the job if the bill passes.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
        Mr. Johnson. However, if the bill doesn't pass--you got it.
        Senator Barrasso. Mr. Murphy, with regard to Senator Lee
    and Senator Hatch's bill, I want to understand this correctly.
    As I read your testimony, the BLM is telling the Subcommittee
    it intentionally punted the decision-making livestock grazing
    in the monument in 1999 when the agency adopted its resource
    management plan. Now here we are 16 years later, and it wants
    to put a framework in place through transparent public
    processes. You have been managing grazing using the 35-year old
    framework plans all the time.
        It just seems in your testimony you say you do not support
    managing graze lands according to arbitrary targets of use.
    Then you say, overall permitted use is at roughly the same
    level as it has been since the early 90's and that you have
    renewed all expiring livestock grazing permits, leases on the
    monument.
        If this is all true, I am just not sure why you call the
    grazing levels in the bill arbitrary since it is what you are
    claiming the BLM has already done.
        Can you provide some assurances that BLM will not reduce
    grazing levels on the monument through the Livestock Grazing
    Management Plan amendment that you are currently preparing?
        Mr. Murphy. Senator, thank you for the question.
        When the monument plan was initiated, grazing direction,
    grazing planning was part of that. The issues became
    significant and the grazing component of that plan was tabled.
    So at that time when the plan was completed, there was not
    land-use level direction for grazing.
        Some years later an amendment was initiated to readdress
    the grazing. After a few years, it was found that the public
    scoping period was wholly inadequate and that was then set
    aside, that amendment process. It took some years to garner
    support for renewing the land-use planning effort to bring
    grazing direction in line with other resource decisions, and in
    2012 and 2013 public scoping has begun. And we're in that
    process now of addressing grazing management, providing
    direction for grazing, integrated with other resources.
        Senator Barrasso. You talk about providing direction, and I
    think people want to see some certainty. If you oppose setting
    grazing levels like S. 365 would do, what will the BLM do to
    provide some certainty to the ranching industry and community
    that are affected by this, that grazing will actually continue
    at current levels?
        Mr. Murphy. With the completion of the amendment that's
    underway, it'll provide the framework for the basis for
    activity plan levels, that will provide the framework for NEPA
    for grazing permit renewals and those renewals will be based on
    a data-driven process, vegetation, soil, water, air.
        When I spoke about the arbitrary number, that has to do
    with going back to a period of time, 1996 or any date, and
    trying to match that date, the data-driven process will arrive
    at a level of grazing management that can be supported and
    integrated with other resources.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
        Ms. Weldon, in your testimony on S. 472, Senator Heller's
    Douglas County bill, you expressed concerns with language that
    you say limits the ability of the President to develop new
    water facilities that are deemed in the national interest in
    any present or future designated wilderness, and you reiterate
    this concern in your testimony on Senator Risch's bill. Can you
    elaborate on the basis of your concern with this language, and
    do you have any examples of the President using that authority
    or what might necessitate the use of that authority?
        Ms. Weldon. Thanks for your question.
        I don't have any examples because I don't think this
    provision has been put into use with any wilderness that have
    been designated based on our research.
        What we're simply doing is affirming the language that is
    in the current Wilderness Act of 1964 that states that the
    President may authorize and maintain if it's viewed that those
    new facilities are in the interest of the public. So it's
    affirming what's in the Wilderness Act.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you.
        We will go to a second round of questions. Senator Risch?
        Senator Risch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I will try to be brief here.
        Rick, one of the biggest criticisms that we have, as the
    delegation, have heard in Idaho regarding monument verses
    statute is the uncertainty that the monument brings and the
    struggle that it is going to take to get it up and running
    whereas the bill provides very clear certainty, at least in
    most circumstances. What are your thoughts on that?
        Mr. Johnson. Well, there's little doubt that the bill would
    provide certainty from day one. That's crystal clear.
        I would like to just caution, however, that I think that a
    monument process such as not unlike the one that has been
    underway driven by our organization and in a very broad
    coalition. We're reaching out and talking to everybody. We've
    done visits with the ranchers and recreation interests. We're
    talking to everybody we can possibly meet with. To be honest,
    parenthetically, it made me appreciate your job a lot more. You
    know, we're the ones actually in the center of the focus.
        When a monument is designated, it is based upon a set of
    objects and it is based upon a map that is, presumably, built
    around the justification. We cannot speak for the White House
    or the Administration by any means, but we believe that they
    would take the good work that has been done by the coalition on
    the ground to build something that reflects Idaho values and we
    would hope that and expect that that would happen. We cannot
    guarantee that would happen, but we would hope and expect.
        Senator Risch. Sure.
        Your continued preference is for the legislation at this
    point, is that correct?
        Mr. Johnson. Correct.
        Senator Risch. Second, you were chosen to testify in favor
    of this, and as a result of that, are representing lots and
    lots of different and varied groups and some groups you are not
    used to representing, I might add.
        Since you have that responsibility----
        Mr. Johnson. And they're probably uncomfortable with it
    too, but. [Laughter.]
        Senator Risch. You said that, I did not. In any event, the
    numbers are really impressive, the number of groups and the
    wide diversity. But having said that, do you have anything else
    you want to add? Your time was limited at the beginning, in
    adding to your testimony as far as what your thoughts, or these
    other groups' thoughts, are on the bill?
        Mr. Johnson. Well, I think that I would just say that this
    is an extraordinary place. And while we are far, thousands of
    miles from home, it is important to recognize that spring is
    coming in the Boulder-White Clouds, the mountain goats are out
    there, the herds of migrating elk, the Pronghorn, the salmon
    and steelhead in the rivers and streams. It's an extraordinary
    place.
        And one of the things that I think is clear is people care
    about it deeply for many different respects. It's a large
    landscape, has a lot of diverse opportunities to use it. This
    bill takes into consideration as much as it possibly can, the
    diversity of uses and the diversity of habitats in a future
    that really protects this grand part of Idaho.
        I would just close by saying it really deserves it. It is
    not about us. It's not about, you know, as Mr. Simpson has
    said, it's not even about ten years from now. It's about a
    hundred years from now. Will the resources that are found there
    today be there for future generations? And I think this bill is
    an extraordinary effort to bring people together.
        Senator Risch. Thank you.
        I think that regardless of where people are on this issue
    there is not anyone who would disagree with the word that you
    just uttered in that regard. This is one of the most remarkable
    places in the world. You can travel all over the world, but you
    would always remember your trip to the Boulder-White Clouds. It
    is truly unique.
        Tim, finish up your work here and get back to Idaho. We
    have a little sage grouse problem you may have heard of and we
    need your help on that.
        For those of you who are interested in looking to the
    future, here in the audience today we have people representing
    the Scotchman's Peak area of North Idaho, another, probably the
    next candidate in Idaho. It may be in my fourth or fifth term
    in this job, I do not know. I hope you do not have to wait that
    long, but there is no doubt that there will be a movement. I
    want to complement them right now. They have seen and picked up
    on the collaborative method by which these public lands issues
    have been resolved in Idaho. They have been moving forward in
    that regard. They have been making substantial progress, and
    indeed have an impressive list of people who are supporting
    their work in that regard. So this Committee will, in all
    likelihood, in the future be seeing them. Is that okay with
    you, Rick?
        Mr. Johnson. I'm all in. [Laughter.]
        Senator Risch. Thank you.
        Mr. Chairman, thank you so much for your time. Thank you
    for holding the hearing.
        Senator Barrasso. Thank you, Senator Risch.
        Senator Heinrich, second round of questions? No?
        Hearing no other questions, members may also submit
    followup written questions for the record. The record will be
    open for the next two weeks.
        Senator Barrasso. I want to thank all of you for being here
    today, for your time and your testimony.
        The hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 3:35 p.m. the hearing was adjourned.]

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