[Senate Hearing 114-851]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 114-851
DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS
IN YOUR SUITCASE? HOW DRUG
TRAFFICKERS ARE DECEIVING
SENIORS TO SMUGGLE CONTRABAND
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
WASHINGTON, DC
__________
FEBRUARY 10, 2016
__________
Serial No. 114-19
Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
48-285 PDF WASHINGTON : 2022
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SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING
SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine, Chairman
ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah CLAIRE McCASKILL, Missouri
MARK KIRK, Illinois BILL NELSON, Florida
JEFF FLAKE, Arizona ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania
TIM SCOTT, South Carolina SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
BOB CORKER, Tennessee KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York
DEAN HELLER, Nevada RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
TOM COTTON, Arkansas JOE DONNELLY, Indiana
DAVID PERDUE, Georgia ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts
THOM TILLIS, North Carolina TIM KAINE, Virginia
BEN SASSE, Nebraska
----------
Priscilla Hanley, Majority Staff Director
Derron Parks, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Opening Statement of Senator Susan M. Collins, Chairman.......... 1
Opening Statement of Senator Claire McCaskill, Ranking Member.... 2
PANEL OF WITNESSES
Andrew Martin, Son of Dresden, Victim............................ 5
Daniel Seibert, Victim........................................... 7
Scott Brown, Acting Assistant Director of Investigative Programs,
Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Department of
Homeland Security.............................................. 9
Jill Steinberg, Senior Counsel, Office of the Deputy Attorney
General, U.S. Department of Justice............................ 10
APPENDIX
Prepared Witness Statements
Andrew Martin, Son of Dresden, Victim............................ 37
Daniel Seibert, Victim, (by video - no written testimony)........ --
Scott Brown, Acting Assistant Director of Investigative Programs,
Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Department of
Homeland Security.............................................. 41
Jill Steinberg, Senior Counsel, Office of the Deputy Attorney
General, U.S. Department of Justice............................ 55
DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS
IN YOUR SUITCASE? HOW DRUG
TRAFFICKERS ARE DECEIVING
SENIORS TO SMUGGLE CONTRABAND
----------
WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 10, 2016
U.S. Senate,
Special Committee on Aging,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:28 p.m., Room
562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Susan M. Collins,
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Collins, Flake, Heller, Cotton, Tillis,
McCaskill, Casey, Gillibrand, Blumenthal, Donnelly, and Kaine.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR
SUSAN M. COLLINS, CHAIRMAN
The Chairman. The Committee will come to order. Good
afternoon.
One of the top priorities of this Committee is to wage the
battle against criminals who are constantly trying to swindle
American seniors out of their hard-earned savings. These
scammers are endlessly inventive. Last year alone, our
committee's fraud hotline received 1,100 calls on more than 30
different scams from victims located in every State. At the top
of the list was the IRS impersonation scam, followed by the
Jamaican lottery, deceptive robocalls, computer tech support
fraud, identity theft, grandparent scams. The list goes on and
on.
Regrettably, today, we add to that list a new scam brought
to our attention by Federal law enforcement officials and one
of my constituents, and this one is particularly pernicious. As
we will learn from our witnesses, international criminal
cartels have begun to use unsuspecting American seniors as
mules to smuggle narcotics across international borders.
Tragically, at least 145 victims have been arrested by foreign
governments as a result of this scam and approximately 30 of
them remain incarcerated overseas.
Typically, the criminal organizations behind this intricate
scheme draw seniors into a web of deceit using what I call a
predicate scam like the romance scam, in which a con artist
develops a personal relationship, usually online, with an
unsuspecting senior. Once the seniors are ensnared, the
criminals then deceive them into smuggling drugs by asking them
to travel overseas, where they are given packages with unknown
contents to carry across international borders. The scammers
give reasons that appear plausible to many seniors.
Typically, the criminals pick up the tab for the seniors'
travel expenses. That is one way that they convince them that
they are legitimate.
The criminals also make the international travel
arrangements for their victims, which is another key to how
this scam works. Instead of sending the senior on a direct
flight from the United States to his or her destination, the
criminals create a complicated itinerary that requires the
senior to stop somewhere overseas, often for days at a time.
During this waylay, the seniors are told that it is important
that they carry a package or an extra suitcase with them on the
next leg of their journey. Unbeknownst to the senior, that
package or suitcase he or she has been asked to carry has drugs
carefully hidden inside. Even if the senior were to look
inside, he or she is unlikely to notice anything unusual.
Then, as the seniors try to clear customs overseas,
disaster strikes. Officers uncover the contraband and arrest
them on charges of drug trafficking. Instead of reaching their
destination and finally getting to greet the lover that they
met online, or recover the funds promised them by Nigerian
bankers, they find themselves imprisoned in a foreign jail and
thousands of miles away from home.
The criminals who set this chain of events in motion are
cruel, but also very, very clever. I cannot emphasize enough
how important it is that seniors and their families become
aware of their techniques and take actions to protect
themselves and their loved ones from these heartless criminals.
We also need a vigorous and determined effort by law
enforcement, particularly at the Federal level, not an easy
task given the challenges posed by international boundaries.
I look forward to learning more about this terrible new
fraud from our witnesses and what can be done to combat it.
Thank you.
Senator McCaskill.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR
CLAIRE McCASKILL, RANKING MEMBER
Senator McCaskill. Good afternoon, and thank you, Chairman
Collins. This Committee has done tremendous work under your
leadership to aggressively fight fraud and scams. Later this
week, the Committee will be publishing its Fraud Book,
reporting the top scams reported to our fraud hotline. I hope
that the Fraud Book can serve as a resource for seniors on
scams to watch out for and organizations to contact should they
be concerned that they are being scammed.
The scams discussed in the Fraud Book and the scams we have
focused on in several committee hearings are really as old as
time. Most of these scams are, at their core, confidence scams.
What has changed is the use of technology, international
boundaries, and even changed tactics in response to our own
consumer education. Criminals today have a much easier time
covering their tracks and changing their strategies, and the
evolving nature of these scams highlights how adaptable they
are.
The drug trafficking scam has more serious consequences
than just a loss of resources, especially in countries where
intent is not required to be convicted of a crime. Obviously,
for a senior to be placed in prison and deprived of his liberty
is an ultimate consequence to an old fashioned confidence scam.
Staying ahead of the curve is very challenging. Take, for
example, the IRS impersonation scam, the subject of a committee
hearing last year and still a real problem to seniors
nationwide. These calls are being received at increasing rates
due to a fraudsters' ability to use robocall technology. Even
though their success rate per call has decreased, the
fraudsters are still reaching many more people, and because
many of these calls are coming from overseas and using VOIP,
Voice Over Internet Protocol, they are very difficult to trace.
Now, the scammers are twisting the tips provided by the
government acknowledging these red flags in their conversations
and using them to prove their legitimacy. For instance, tips
publicized stated the IRS would never contact you first by
phone and there would always be an initial contact via mail. To
gain the confidence of our seniors who are aware of this tip,
scammers have now changed their script to convince victims that
they have been sending them letters regarding their amount
owed, but there was no response. Therefore, they are taking
immediate action to collect those funds. The IRS impersonation
scheme shows just how far fraudsters will go to gain the
confidence of our Nation's seniors, just to get a piece of
their hard-earned retirement funds.
I am really pleased that the Department of Justice has
joined us today. I do not want to discount the role that
consumer education plays in making seniors aware of the latest
evolutions of these scams, but that by itself is just simply
not enough. Many seniors who fall victim to these scams have
diminished mental capacity and are not able to distinguish a
real offer from a scam.
This drug mule scam, for instance, could appear real to
some seniors, especially when they board a plan and fly
overseas without having to pay for it. The plane ticket adds an
air of legitimacy to what would otherwise be a very shady
operation.
The only way we will ever really put a dent into this
problem is by putting some of these criminals behind bars. I am
curious to hear from DOJ about how they are going about
prosecuting these fraud cases, especially in cases that cross
international borders.
I would say as an aside that I used to tease my friends
that were in the U.S. Attorney's Office when I was a State
prosecutor, saying, I wish you guys would just take 911 calls
for a month, because the Federal Government has this wonderful
luxury that you get to decide what cases to take, and whatever
you do not take rolls downhill to the State prosecutor. We
always teased that they could find Federal jurisdiction when
they wanted to, but they never had to.
This is a case where a local prosecutor cannot go after
these criminals. They are international, and that, I would
submit for the record, is why we have Federal law enforcement,
not to prosecute violent crime, not even to prosecute bank
robberies, not to prosecute kidnapping, but to prosecute those
crimes that State and local prosecutors simply cannot reach,
and these crimes, these frauds, done from an international
location, fall squarely in the lap of Federal law enforcement,
and I, for one, am impatient with the excuse, well, they are
just not big enough. I think these are affecting the quality of
life for millions of seniors in this country and I believe it
should be a much higher priority of the Department of Justice.
We have spent a lot of time working on the Jamaican lottery
scam here and now we have a good working relationship with the
Jamaican government, but yet we still only extradited one
person on the Jamaican lottery scam. Meanwhile, they are making
rap songs about the Jamaican lottery, quote-unquote, ``heroes''
in Jamaica. They have become local people of fame and fortune.
I appreciate all the work law enforcement is doing, and I
understand that interjurisdictional task forces have been put
together, but the time to start taking action is now. Thousands
and thousands of people are being ripped off, and the idea that
we are not catching many of the crooks has just emboldened
criminals and copycats to target more and more seniors.
I look forward to working with law enforcement to remove
any obstacles that might be in their path toward prosecution.
If there is anything that the U.S. Senate needs to do to make
this easier for Federal law enforcement authorities, today is
the day to let us know what that is.
Thank you very much.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Now, we turn to our panel of witnesses. First, we will hear
from Andrew Martin, who is from Henderson, Nevada, but formerly
from the great State of Maine. Mr. Martin's father of Dresden,
Maine, is a victim of the scam that our committee is focusing
on today.
After Mr. Martin's testimony, we will view a video of
Daniel Seibert, an Arizona resident, and I would like to at
this point yield to my colleague from Arizona, Senator Flake,
whose staff has been extremely helpful in producing the video
of his constituent's testimony.
Senator Flake. Well, thank you. Thank you, Chairman
Collins. I just want to thank you and the Committee and Ranking
Member McCaskill for holding this hearing. It represents an
important step in putting this new and very troublesome scam
under a microscope.
As I understand it, this is implicating individuals across
the country, including, as the Chairman noted, the man from
Arizona, Daniel Seibert, who we will hear from in just a
minute. My office was able to work with the Committee and to
make sure that his testimony was heard today.
I want to also thank ICE for intercepting Mr. Seibert
before his situation escalated, and I hope that the spotlight
that is being put by the Committee on this subject will help in
stopping others from being victimized in the future, and thank
you, I look forward to hearing from the witnesses.
The Chairman. Thank you.
We will then hear from Scott Brown. Mr. Brown is the Acting
Assistant Director of Investigative Programs at the U.S.
Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency, better known as
ICE. As Senator Flake mentioned, he prevented his constituent
from being truly further damaged by this scam.
Finally, we will hear from Jill Steinberg, a Senior Counsel
in the Office of the Deputy Attorney General at the Department
of Justice.
Thank you all for joining us. We are going to begin with
Mr. Martin.
STATEMENT OF ANDREW MARTIN, SON OF DRESDEN, VICTIM
Mr. Martin. Chairman Collins, Ranking Member McCaskill, and
distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the
opportunity to appear before you today to testify about my
father's unwitting involvement in a romance scam which targets
seniors to smuggle drugs.
My father was arrested in Madrid last July, having nearly
two kilograms of cocaine in his possession worth approximately
$400,000. He had no idea that he was carrying drugs. He went to
Peru thinking he was taking real eState documents to a woman in
London whom he met and fell in love with online.
The idea that my dad is now a convicted drug smuggler,
sentenced last month to 6 years in prison, is surreal. My dad,
a retired pastor, had no prior criminal history of any kind,
not even a speeding ticket. He never drank, never smoked, never
swore in his entire life. However, he did have his
shortcomings. He was too trusting of people and overly
gullible.
Seven years ago, at age 70, my dad found himself single and
lonely, so he moved in with my sister. Dad would go on Internet
chat sites to pass the time. One day, Dad meets Joy, an
attractive woman in her 30's who claimed to be from Nigeria but
living in the U.K. Joy and Dad exchanged life stories and
photos and they would spend hours chatting nearly every night.
Dad quickly became infatuated with her. The true identity of
Joy remains a mystery, but suffice to say, Joy and her
associates destroyed my father's life.
As a struggling artist, Joy claimed to be poor and hungry.
Even though Dad's only income was a mere $1,000 per month that
he got from Social Security, he would often forego paying my
sister rent so that he could instead support Joy, which he did
for 6 years. Joy gave him lots of attention, told him she loved
him, and wanted to marry him 1 day.
Joy told my dad that she inherited a large eState in South
America from her wealthy father, who was murdered in Africa.
The property was worth millions and she wanted to sell it, but
the deed was in Peru. She was unable to get a visa to go
herself, but if he would go and bring these real eState
documents to her, they could have a very comfortable life
together. Dad promised he would go for her if she could find a
way to pay for his trip. Joy, allegedly not having any money
either at the time, put the trip on hold.
Last year, my father met and married a local woman. He
tells Joy that he needs to end their relationship. Joy reminds
Dad of his promise to help her with the real eState papers. She
offers to pay Dad a significant amount of money if he would go
to Peru and bring papers to her in London. Broke and wanting to
recover the money he had sent Joy over the years, Dad decides
to keep his promise. Joy tells Dad her family attorney would
meet him with the papers at the airport in Lima. Dad was to
rest up a night or two at the hotel and then fly to London,
deliver the documents, get paid, and return home.
Against his new wife's advice, Dad boards the plane to
Peru. When Dad arrives in Lima, nobody is there to meet him. He
calls Joy, learns the attorney was delayed, and is told to wait
at the hotel for him. After a few days, Dad has no more money
for the hotel and has not yet heard from the attorney, so Joy
wires him some money via Western Union, informs him that the
lawyer would be there soon, and requests him to continue
waiting.
After 10 days, the man finally shows up with two sealed
packages that felt like books. He gives the books to Dad and a
plane ticket to London. The man informs Dad the books were
sealed for inspection, but if security wants to inspect them,
it's okay to go ahead and allow them. This apparently satisfies
my father, so he never looks at the contents.
The following day, Dad places the packages in his carry-on
bag and boards the plane to London. He has two stops to make,
one in Madrid and then on to Dublin, where he was to spend 2
days before continuing on to London. When he--upon arriving in
Spain, airline staff meets my dad with a wheelchair to take him
to his connecting gate. He is stopped by security, who see the
books during X-ray exam of his carry-on. To my Dad's horror,
they find cocaine.
It takes a couple of weeks for me to learn that Dad has
been arrested. A few weeks after that, Dad's new wife tells him
that she wants a divorce. She had been getting frightening
calls from men looking for my father and was forced to change
her phone number.
My wife Lisa and I flew to Spain last October to visit my
father in prison. Dad was overwhelmed when he saw us and broke
down in tears. He kept telling us how ashamed he was and how
stupid he felt, having fallen for this scam. He honestly
thought Joy was his friend and he trusted her. Joy was never
pushy about the trip to Peru until my Dad announced that he was
married. I guess at this point, the scammers felt that this was
their last chance to use my father.
Now, at age 77, Dad may very well spend the rest of his
life in prison. He is in very poor health. He has proState and
heart and back problems. He was supposed to have surgery on his
back 2 weeks after the trip, which, of course, has not
happened, leaving him in constant pain. He faints all the time
and is being kept in the prison infirmary.
When Lisa and I saw him, he looked frail and his mental
capacity was in obvious decline. He seemed confused about
different aspects of his ordeal. He just wants to come home and
not die in prison.
I will close with the last paragraph from the first letter
my Dad wrote us in prison. Dad writes, ``I want to thank you
both for not abandoning me here. What to do once released, if I
do not die here, I have no idea, as I am now homeless again.
How I miss my wife. I feel so terrible for all the pain I
caused the woman I loved. I only wanted to provide her more
than Social Security allowed, but never anything illegal. I
trust you believe me. Love, Dad.''
Thank you again for the opportunity to share my father's
story with you. I will be happy to answer any questions.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Martin.
I want to tell you how much it means to the Committee that
you are willing to publicly share your father's story, because
I believe it will really help others who have been targeted by
these horrendously unscrupulous criminals. I guess all
criminals are unscrupulous, but this is so heartless, and the
idea that your father is in prison is just extraordinary to me.
We look forward to questioning you and learning more.
We are now going to turn to Senator Jeff Flake's
constituent, and his name is Daniel Seibert, and he will tell
his story.
STATEMENT OF DANIEL SEIBERT, VICTIM
[A video recording was played.]
Mr. Seibert. My name is Daniel W. Seibert. I live in Green
Valley, Arizona. I'm 79. It was 19--or, no, 2006, and that is
about when I guess you will say I retired.
Senator Flake's Staff Member. Mr. Seibert, we learned from
ICE that you recently took a trip that ended with Agent Small
dropping you in the airport in Georgia. Could you tell us what
led to you going on this trip in the first place?
Mr. Seibert. It was a fun--I was supposed to have, and I
did not know anything about what they wanted me to do until
actually I talked to the agents there. What--what it turned out
to be is, according to what they told me, is I was supposed to
go to the U.K., pick up some kind of a package, from there go
to Dubai, and then from Dubai I was supposed to go to Japan,
but I did not think anything about it. I said, well, I have
never been to Dubai, so I wanted to go. I have been in 76
countries and Dubai is not one of them, so I said, well, I
wanted to go.
Well, then they stopped me and then they explained what was
going on, and they treated me very good, respectfully. I mean,
they knew I did not know what was going on, so----
Senator Flake's Staff Member. How were you first contacted
by this person who asked you to take the trip?
Mr. Seibert. It was by e-mail, but it has been so long ago
now, I do not have any of them e-mails left. I do not remember
his name, even.
Senator Flake's Staff Member. What did he say in the e-mail
that led to you going on the trip?
Mr. Seibert. The only thing that I can remember is why I
wanted to go, is because I wanted to go to Dubai, and I just
wanted to take a vacation.
Senator Flake's Staff Member. Did he mention that you would
get some unclaimed funds that you believed were owed to you?
Mr. Seibert. Yes. Actually, the trip did not cost me a
penny, because if I had to pay, I would not have went. The
person that actually paid for the ticket, I do not even know
his name anymore, to be honest with you.
Senator Flake's Staff Member. Once you agreed to go on the
trip, did at any point the person tell you you would have to
pick up a package?
Mr. Seibert. Well, he called me on the phone, is what it
was, and said I had to go to the U.K. to pick up a package
which I was going to take with me all the way to Japan, and I
asked him about, well, what is in the package. He said a thing,
like, it is a thank you package I am supposed to give to some
banker in Japan. In Japan, it is very customary you give people
presents. Even if the--if you go to a bank and the banker
treats you nice or whatever, you give the guy or the woman a
present, and I assumed, well, that is what it is. It is the
head guy of the bank and we were thanking him ahead of time, so
it was just a thank you present.
Senator Flake's Staff Member. You had no reason to be
suspicious about what was in the package?
Mr. Seibert. No. None at all, really. I just assumed it was
going to be a thank you present, which could have been anything
from a wristwatch to a whatever. I mean, things like watches
and things like that are a common gift in Japan.
Senator Flake's Staff Member. When the agent stopped you in
the airport, did you know why he was stopping you?
Mr. Seibert. I had no idea at all.
Senator Flake's Staff Member. The whole time you thought
that you were going to go on this trip to be able to collect
your funds, and that is why you went on this trip?
Mr. Seibert. Yes, that is right.
Senator Flake's Staff Member. On another topic, you had
said you had been contacted by other people about funds in
banks.
Mr. Seibert. Yes. Many of the Nigerian banks and the
Federal Reserve Banks that are in the United States...
[inaudible], and Senators now all of the sudden.
Senator Flake's Staff Member. You received e-mails from
people impersonating Senators, but also from people
impersonating other officials and heads of state?
Mr. Seibert. This is from the Internal Revenue Service, and
there are other people--uh--the United States Postal Service
was the next one I had, and this one is from Federal Reserve
Bank, the one in New Jersey, and I am not sure whether they are
real or whether they are fake, because the first thing he
wants, he wants $1,750, the guy in New Jersey.
Senator Flake's Staff Member. Have you sent money to any of
those people who have contacted you?
Mr. Seibert. Regretfully, the answer is yes.
Senator Flake's Staff Member. Do you remember how much
money you have sent to them?
Mr. Seibert. Over the last 6 years, I have probably sent
about $150,000.
Senator Flake's Staff Member. Was that before or after you
went on the trip?
Mr. Seibert. I think I have sent them some since, not much,
just a couple hundred dollars. I sent most of the money
probably five and 6 years ago.
Senator Flake's Staff Member. You still do get a lot of e-
mails asking you to send money to them?
Mr. Seibert. I get about 400 e-mails a day. I would guess
that 300 of them want money.
[End of video recording.]
The Chairman. Thank you. Senator Flake, I want to thank you
again. Your staffer did a great job interviewing Mr. Seibert,
and you can see what a horrible situation this is, but for
ICE's intervention, he would have ended up smuggling drugs, I
have no doubt about that, given that he had given away $150,000
to scammers over the past 6 years, so with that, let me turn to
Mr. Brown, who can give us a bigger picture of this scam, but
also any comments you can make on this particular case and
others would be helpful to us, and I want to publicly thank ICE
for coming to us and letting us know about this scam so that we
could publicize it and help prevent others from falling victim.
STATEMENT OF SCOTT BROWN, ACTING ASSISTANT
DIRECTOR OF INVESTIGATIVE PROGRAMS, IMMIGRATION
AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT, U.S. DEPARTMENT
OF HOMELAND SECURITY
Mr. Brown. Chairman Collins, Ranking Member McCaskill, and
distinguished members, on behalf of Secretary Johnson and
Director Saldana, thank you for the opportunity to discuss
ICE's efforts to investigate and thwart criminals who target
the elderly with nefarious schemes that rob them of their
dignity, their money, and potentially their liberty.
Homeland Security Investigations, or HSI, is the
investigative arm of ICE and conducts criminal investigations
to protect the United States against terrorism and other
criminal activity that threaten public safety and national
security and to bring to justice those seeking to exploit our
customs and immigration laws worldwide. In its investigative
capacity, HSI enforces more than 400 Federal laws and
regulations with jurisdiction over investigations of crimes
with a nexus to the U.S. border.
As you know, there are many fraud schemes, such as phony
investment pitches and business opportunities. Such scams are
growing increasingly sophisticated and international in scope
and are able to victimize U.S. citizens throughout the country.
Perpetrators victimize consumers of all ages, backgrounds, and
income levels, but as you have seen, the elderly seem to be
disproportionately targeted.
Today, I want to bring to the attention of the Committee
and the general public an emerging trend involving the movement
of illicit contraband--drugs--by unsuspecting elderly citizens.
Transnational criminal organizations, or TCOs, have long
sought to recruit drug couriers who appear to be unsuspicious
and present the best opportunity to successfully smuggle
contraband across international borders. Using various avenues
available on the Internet to gather information on potential
victims, such as social media, cyberbegging, and fishing e-
mails, TCOs now tailor their inheritance, romance, and business
opportunity scams to recruit the elderly to smuggle narcotics
through commercial air travel.
The unwitting couriers travel to numerous countries with
airline tickets provided or funded by the TCOs, and these TCOs
often change the itinerary at each leg of the journey in an
effort to evade detection. These elaborate international
schemes involve these couriers meeting with alleged business
partners in numerous countries during a single trip. These
business partners have the courier take a suitcase or a gift
that appears innocent, but contains drugs, to the business
partner they will meet at their next stop.
The average age of the couriers identified encountered
smuggling narcotics was approximately 59, and the oldest of
these couriers was 87. The oldest unwitting individual HSI
encountered during one of our investigations was 97 years old.
HSI special agents were successful in convincing him to abandon
his travel plans before he could become another victim.
Through our joint targeting and investigative efforts,
dubbed Operation Cocoon, HSI and U.S. Customs and Border
Protection, working with our foreign counterparts, to date have
led to the arrest of 15 facilitators affiliated with the
transnational criminal organizations behind these schemes and
the interdiction of a total of 272 kilograms of
methamphetamine, 209 kilograms of cocaine, four kilograms of
ecstasy, and 11 kilograms of heroin.
As evidenced by the video testimony you just saw, whenever
possible, HSI has worked to prevent potential elderly victims
from departing the United States if we believe they may be
unwittingly utilized to smuggle narcotics, as we did with Mr.
Seibert.
Unfortunately, there are instances when the recruited
individuals are so engaged by the underlying scam used by the
criminal organization they do not believe they are being duped.
Often, these organizations warn their victims to not believe
anyone who approaches them as law enforcement. HSI has warned
elderly couriers concerning their potential role in this type
of scheme, only to have the elderly victim continue with their
travel and subsequently get intercepted in other countries with
narcotics.
This is why it is so important to raise the public's
awareness of these types of fraud schemes. We need to be
discussing these schemes with our loved ones, both young and
old, and reiterating the adage, if it appears too good to be
true, then it probably is.
Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you
today. ICE looks forward to working with the Committee to raise
awareness and to eliminate the opportunities for these
criminals to prey upon our senior citizens. I would be happy to
answer any questions that you have.
The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Brown, but for your
agents intercepting Mr. Seibert, I have no doubt that his fate
would have been similar to Mr. Martin's, and I appreciate your
good work.
Ms. Steinberg.
STATEMENT OF JILL STEINBERG, SENIOR COUNSEL,
OFFICE OF THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL,
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
Ms. Steinberg. Chairman Collins, Ranking Member McCaskill,
and distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the
opportunity to discuss the Department of Justice's efforts
aimed at combating fraud against our Nation's seniors.
There are numerous schemes to exploit the elderly for
financial gain. With clever perpetrators and the advent of new
technologies, many of these scams continue to evolve and
challenge law enforcement. That said, across the Department, we
are engaged on this issue and working hard to seek justice on
behalf of elder victims.
We take an all-of-Department approach to combat elder abuse
and financial exploitation. That includes the investigation and
prosecution of cases, outreach and education programs, funding
relevant research, and providing services to victims.
Starting first with enforcement efforts, as the Committee
knows, many frauds targeting the elderly originate overseas.
Combating such schemes requires close collaboration with our
international partners. To this end, we are committed to
expanding our engagement with law enforcement agencies in
countries in which these frauds may originate.
As a key component of these efforts, the Department co-
chairs the International Mass Marketing Fraud Working Group.
This group includes other U.S. investigative and regulatory
agencies and representatives from Australia, Belgium, Canada,
the Netherlands, Nigeria, Norway, Spain, and the United
Kingdom. The members of the group meet to improve intelligence
sharing, disrupt mass marketing schemes, and increase the
effectiveness of criminal and civil enforcement actions.
Project JOLT reflects these successful partnerships. United
States and Jamaican law enforcement have worked together to
combat fraudulent lottery schemes preying on elderly citizens
in this country. In 2015, the Department successfully
extradited the first Jamaican citizen to be prosecuted in this
country in connection with such a lottery scheme. He was
convicted and sentenced to 46 months in prison. Since 2009, DOJ
has prosecuted nearly 100 defendants linked to these schemes.
The defendants who have been sentenced have been sentenced
collectively to more than 125 years in prison.
In addition to the Jamaican lottery fraud, another common
telemarketing scheme involves the reported resale of time share
interests. In one such case, the Department charged Peter
Massimino in connection with a multiple-victim time share
resale scam operating from Florida that led to the
victimization of over 25,000 people and a total loss of $35
million. He was sentenced to 87 months in prison.
Just recently, the Department concluded its prosecution of
Gilbert Freeman, also for a time share resale scheme, in which
the majority of victims were elderly. Freeman defrauded more
than 1,400 owners out of about $5 million. He was sentenced
last week to 20 years in prison.
The United States Attorney's Office are also working to
combat mail-based financial exploitation. In May 2015,
prosecutors in Florida brought charges in a widespread
sweepstakes mail fraud scheme. In September, prosecutors in
Long Island also brought charges in an alleged mail sweepstakes
fraud scheme. These are but two examples of the type of cases
pursued by the Department.
Investment schemes also continue to be a problem. For
example, in January 2015, two defendants in Florida were
sentenced to 10 years in prison for their role in a scheme to
defraud elderly investors out of $18 million. The defendants
took money from the victims, purporting to invest them in CDs,
but instead used the money to make payments to earlier
investors and pocketing it for themselves to buy themselves
things. The court ordered restitution of almost $10 million in
that case.
The Department also provides training to prosecutors on
elder abuse and exploitation. For example, since 2013, the
Department has trained State and local prosecutors through its
National Institute on Prosecuting Elder Abuse, an intensive 4-
day training that covers the elements of bringing an elder
abuse and exploitation case. The Department will enroll
prosecutors from all 50 states by 2017, but prosecuting cases
is only one component of a comprehensive strategy to combat
elder abuse and exploitation. Preventing these crimes from
happening at all is similarly a priority. Every year, the
Department participates in the Rocky Mountain Fraud Summit in
Denver. The summit consists of interactive presentations about
investment frauds that target our communities, including
seniors. The Department hosts similar outreach events across
the country.
Additionally, research is a critical component of a
successful strategy to combat elder abuse and exploitation.
Over the last 10 years, DOJ awarded over 20 grants amounting to
over nine million that examined diverse elder mistreatment
issues, including projects on financial exploitation of the
elderly.
In September 2014, the Department launched its Elder
Justice website, which has been accessed more than a half-a-
million times since its launch. The website is a one-stop shop
for resources on all aspects of elder abuse and exploitation.
The Department in Fiscal Year 2015 provided $1.5 million
that will support approximately 60 AmeriCorps lawyers and
paralegals who will provide legal assistance and support to
victims of elder abuse and exploitation, and OVC's funding is
also used by states to support services for elder victims of
crime.
The Department continues to work hard to combat the
exploitation of our Nation's seniors. Thank you for the
opportunity to discuss the Department's efforts and I look
forward to answering any questions you may have.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Mr. Martin, I am truly saddened to learn that your father,
at age 77, fears that he may spend the rest of his life in a
jail overseas, far from his family, when he had no intention of
breaking the law. That, to me, is very troubling, and while
there are many attorneys on this panel, it came as a surprise
to me that you did not have to prove intent, criminal intent,
in many of these countries in order to be convicted. Is there
any hope of his release? Are you pursuing other avenues to see
if you might be able to get your father returned to the United
States?
Mr. Martin. Thank you, Chairman Collins. We are discussing
with his attorney in Madrid about what can be done. Basically,
the sentence is mandatory based on the quantity of cocaine that
he had. There are no extenuating circumstances matter. He
admitted to it at the time he was caught. There was no point in
taking it to trial, so he actually pleaded out to get the
lowest. It could have been anywhere from six to nine, and then
he could get potentially 2 years forgiven on good behavior, but
they can make a pardon to the king. They can try to get him
expelled due to his age and health, and I guess the attorney is
going to try to make some efforts to do that.
The Chairman. Mr. Brown, can you give us a sense of the
magnitude of this scheme, the numbers, for example, of people,
American seniors, who are imprisoned overseas. Are there cases
that you are aware of where the couriers made it to the
destination without being intercepted?
Mr. Brown. This is a huge problem. Since October 2013, over
144 individuals that we are aware of have been intercepted
transporting narcotics, identified through the targeting
efforts of Customs and Border Protection and our HSI agents at
the National Targeting Center. Eighty-three of those were
United States citizens. Thirty of those United States citizens
remain in prison, but it is--the magnifold is worse than that--
the magnitude is worse than that. The officers, the Customs and
Border Protection officers and the HSI agents working on this
project are some of the best you could ever meet, are as
shocked and appalled at the heinousness of this crime as
everyone else, but the targeting parameters take effort to
build.
We were not aware of Mr. Martin's case until we received
that information via the tip line maintained by this Committee,
and I thank you for that, so you know, of the 144, those are
the 144 that we were able to identify. There is certainly a
very good pool out there, like, unfortunately, Mr. Martin, that
we were not able to identify and have not been able to link to
Cocoon.
As I said, 30 persons, 30 United States citizens, to the
best of our ability to track that, remain in jail overseas.
Sometimes it is a very difficult number to track. Some
countries have very strict disclosure laws on their criminal
proceedings, so largely we are just tracking that by return
travel to the U.S. If we cannot see return travel to the U.S.,
there is an assumption that they are still in custody, but we
could have some that have returned to the U.S. that still have
charges pending overseas. They have just been allowed to come
home while those charges are pending.
The Chairman. Thank you. I can see why international
criminals would want to use an elderly person. When Mr. Martin
described his father being picked up in a wheelchair, that is
not your average--that is not your image of a drug courier.
Ms. Steinberg, I have very little time left, but I have to
say that you described a whole host of schemes, but you did not
touch on the one that this hearing is focused on, so what
specifically is the Department of Justice doing to combat this
heinous new scam?
Ms. Steinberg. Thank you, Chairman Collins, for that
question. We actually became aware of the operation fairly
recently, in the context of this hearing, actually, and this is
an HSI operation. Our understanding from speaking to them is
that DOJ has been supportive, when asked to support their
efforts, for example, in terms of process and search warrants
and things like that.
We do not believe that a case has actually been presented
yet for prosecution, but as you know, the abuse of vulnerable
populations, including the elderly, is a strategic priority of
the Department, and if and when these cases are prosecuted, we
will look at--presented for prosecution, more accurately, we
will take them very seriously and look at the facts and the
evidence and move on from there.
The Chairman. Senator McCaskill.
Senator McCaskill. You think we still have 30 victims in
prison in other countries?
Mr. Brown. Yes. I would give a very important caveat on
that. I cannot affirmatively 100 percent attest that all 30 of
those people did not have some knowledge and are 100 percent
true victims.
Senator McCaskill. Well, do we have an obligation to find
that out? I mean, we have a whole host of victims'
organizations in the Department of Justice that are funded
extensively. Are the victims' organizations reaching out to
these 30 people to try to determine--are we investigating
whether or not these 30 people are, in fact--because if we can
confirm that they are victims, then we have a moral obligation
as a country to get them out of there.
Is the Justice Department intervening with the countries,
asking for pardons, asking for--you know, is the State
Department involved? What we do need to do to get Mr. Martin's
father out of prison, for Christ's sake? This is ridiculous. He
is a victim. He is not a criminal.
Mr. Brown. One of the things that we are doing in HSI is
where there is exculpatory information, we are making sure that
is shared.
Senator McCaskill. With who?
Mr. Brown. With the government that is prosecuting, with
our law enforcement counterparts through our attache offices.
Senator McCaskill. Is the State Department involved?
Mr. Brown. The State Department is involved, but State
Department--and I cannot speak for them--generally does not
interject themselves into foreign legal processes in terms of
guilt or innocence.
Senator McCaskill. If we know they are a victim, this is a
little different. I know we do not get involved--I mean, I get
it, believe me. We cannot get involved when an American citizen
is accused of a crime in a foreign country, just as we would
not want them to get involved in our processes, but if we know
they are a victim--and I think we have an obligation to figure
out if they are victims. I certainly do not think anybody is
going to argue--I do not think you would argue, Ms. Steinberg,
that Mr. Martin's father is a victim, correct?
Ms. Steinberg. I--this one, I have no basis to conclude
that he is anything but a victim. Obviously, I am operating on
the information that I have been given, but I will say that,
again, at this point, we have not been presented any cases in
terms of evaluating them for prosecution, so we are operating
on fairly limited----
Senator McCaskill. Yes, but we are not asking you to get
involved in prosecution. We are asking you to advocate for a
victim. They have been prosecuted by another prosecutor, but
they are still American citizens. I would really like to see
some answer from your bosses, from Secretary Johnson and
Attorney General Lynch, about what obligation do we have when
we know someone has been victimized. Just because they are
located in a different country does not remove the status of a
victim, and it seems to me we need to do more.
Ms. Steinberg, can you tell me how many prosecutions we
have had of criminals in the last 5 years that have been
engaged in the various scams that we have talked about today?
What is the total number that has been prosecuted by the
Federal Government?
Ms. Steinberg. I actually cannot give you a number. I
apologize for that. I do not come here with a number of every
prosecution that involves these particular scams that involve
the elderly.
Senator McCaskill. Would you mind compiling that for us?
Ms. Steinberg. I can take that back and see if that is
possible.
Senator McCaskill. Yes, I know it is possible, because you
told us there were 100 on Jamaica, so I think anecdotally does
not help us, you know, two in New Jersey and two down in
Florida. I think we need to get a sense of how many--and I
would particularly be interested in how many people have been
extradited in connection with those crimes, because we all know
the reason we need you so badly here is that you are the only
one that has the reach. You are the only one that can go there,
and I need to know how many times you have gone.
If possible, if you would get back to us on the number of
cases that have been presented, the number of cases that have
been filed, the number of cases that have been extradited, and
I am really interested in the ones that you have filed, how
many were guilty pleas and how many were trials, because in my
experience, the vast majority of cases that are indicted by the
Federal Government are pleas, so I think it is, in some ways,
to say you have done a hundred cases of a certain type since
2009, that is about 14 a year. You have literally hundreds of
U.S. Attorneys Offices around the country, and the vast
majority of those cases, I guarantee you, were a plea.
I want to get a sense of the amount of resources that is
really being given to this issue, because I--we have so many
witnesses that come here. This is the first time we have had a
chance to talk to somebody from Justice. We have had a number
of these hearings and the local law enforcement that are trying
to help these people in their local communities, especially on
the IRS impersonation scam, they say they call the Department
of Justice and no one is home, so I want to figure out what the
truth is here.
Do we really have the resources necessary at Justice to
handle this problem? And if it is not getting handled, why not,
and what can we do to help you get it handled.
Ms. Steinberg. All right.
Senator McCaskill. Thank you very much. Thank you, Madam
Chairman.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Flake.
Senator Flake. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks for the
testimony.
Mr. Brown, just given Mr. Seibert's testimony about how he
had been contacted, and is still being contacted, I guess, some
400 e-mails a day now because he responded and has put over
quite a bit of money, let me just read a little bit of one of
the e-mails that he received that was ostensibly from my
office, from an individual who is actually on my staff.
Obviously, it was not from him, but they have names, and they
encouraged him to send a check to Post Office--also telling him
to stop listening or colluding with, and they name another U.S.
Senator, because they bilked him out of $900 before,
supposedly, but to keep with us and we will get you money.
It is a very troubling thing when some of these people are
getting letters ostensibly from our offices to somehow lend
legitimacy to some of these scams. How often is that the case,
and what other methods are being used to try to lend legitimacy
to what they are doing?
Mr. Brown. One of the most tragic things we see is that
once a person is victimized once, once the organizations
recognize they can get their hooks into them, it is next to
impossible to get yourself off of that hook. Now, there are
proactive steps persons can take. They can change their e-mail
address. They can change their phone number, but frankly, they
maintain lists of victims and sell those lists, and the more
that has been scammed out of a victim, the more that victim is
worth to the next scammer, knowing they can likely replicate
that success.
You know, as you heard, we actually intercepted Mr. Seibert
in Atlanta after he had phoned from Tucson to Atlanta starting
his journey. When he got back to Arizona, our agents in Tucson
met with him and were shocked to hear that he was actually
going to go from their office, where he met with them, to send
money to one of these scammers, so again, we cautioned him at
that time.
Again, the challenge is, for us, is, you know, we can
educate. I cannot stop--I do not have a legal mechanism to stop
a United States citizen from traveling if they choose to. I do
not have a lawful mechanism to stop a United States citizen
from sending money if they choose to.
One of the things that we have done in terms of outreach is
we have worked with the banks, with the money service
businesses. We have provided them with what we would call red
flag indicators, and a lot of the money service businesses, in
particular, who were frequently used in these scams, take it
upon themselves--because, again, they have an authority as a
private business that I do not have as a law enforcement
officer--to block those transactions to try to stop people from
losing money.
Senator Flake. In this individual case--I do not want you
to give away any methods or whatever in terms of targeting the
scammers--but what tipped you off in Mr. Seibert's case and led
you to go to the airport?
Mr. Brown. I am going to be very careful about how I talk
about our targeting. Thank you recognizing that.
Senator Flake. Please do.
Mr. Brown. Again, this project, again, to give U.S. Customs
and Border Protection their due credit, started with them.
Secretary Johnson has been committed that we will put full
Department resources to significant problems, and this
certainly is a significant problem, so that is what we have
married our HSI agents up with CBP.
They build the targeting off a number of factors--travel
patterns, methods of purchase of airfare, and a whole bunch of
other things that I would be happy to provide to you in a
closed setting.
One of the things that is very important is in bringing
that investigative piece into this, is as we meet with a Mr.
Seibert, as we, you know, either as victims or potential
victims give us the e-mails they receive or as they recount
their phone calls, where we work with the Department of Justice
and get search warrants, we take that evidence, which also has
some intelligence value. We work back with CBP to help them
further expand that targeting platform so that, hopefully, in
the future, we will not have Mr. Martin getting through where
the possibility exists we could potentially stop him from
traveling.
Senator Flake. All right. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Kaine.
Senator Kaine. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thanks to all of
the witnesses.
Mr. Martin, I want to ask you a question. In your
testimony, you indicated, I think, that your Dad had been in
prison a while before you found out. How did that--did they--I
am just curious about that. Did they not let him reach out? Was
he so kind of traumatized by the experience that he was not
sure what to do? I found that kind of grabbed me as you were
talking.
Mr. Martin. Yes, Senator. Basically, the way it happened
was when he got apprehended, obviously, the State Department
was notified and they notified his wife, who lives in Maine. I
am out in Nevada----
Senator Kaine. I see.
Mr. Martin [continuing]. and he had just recently married
her. I did not even know here.
Senator Kaine. Mm-hmm.
Mr. Martin. I mean, I knew of her, but did not really know
her.
Senator Kaine. Yes.
Mr. Martin. I am trying to remember if she told us or--I
think she might have told us----
Senator Kaine. Mm-hmm.
Mr. Martin [continuing]. or my sister, and then the person
at the embassy, the State Department actually e-mailed me
because his wife did not want anything more to do with it.
Senator Kaine. Yes.
Mr. Martin. She e-mailed me and said, I understand that
maybe you can be the one to, like, work with.
Senator Kaine. That must have been the most stunning call
you ever got in your life----
Mr. Martin. Yes.
Senator Kaine [continuing]. that your father is in prison
in Spain for this.
Mr. Martin. He had been involved in other minor, you know--
--
Senator Kaine. Yes.
Mr. Martin [continuing]. situations where he had been
ripped off in the past----
Senator Kaine. Mm-hmm.
Mr. Martin [continuing]. I was not totally shocked, but
obviously, it still a pretty incredible story.
Senator Kaine. His wife was getting at least some kind of
threatening calls because of some of this----
Mr. Martin. Absolutely.
Senator Kaine [continuing]. that was making her very
nervous.
Mr. Martin. Absolutely, and a couple people went to visit
my sister while he was living there--he was not home at the
time--looking for him, various things, so----
Senator Kaine. Very troubling.
Well, I want to ask, now, to Mr. Brown and Ms. Steinberg on
this question. I would think--I was never a prosecutor, but I
tried a lot of cases--if you had the person, you know, and you
put this case on before a jury, I mean, the jury is going to
want to throw the book at these crooks, but the problem is
getting the person, and especially the challenges of any of
this that originates overseas.
Just talk a little bit about from the kind of investigation
and prosecutorial standpoint the challenges of tracking down
some of these folks when they are in other countries and the
level of cooperation you need from the other countries to be
able to do an investigation, get an extradition, get a
successful prosecution.
Mr. Brown. You are right. There are very significant
challenges. We have had tremendous cooperations. We maintain 62
international offices in 46 countries. We have robust
international partnerships across law enforcement, but again,
it is not like this organization--you know, you may not just
have a Spain-based organization.
Senator Kaine. Yes.
Mr. Brown. It could be Spain. It could be Dubai. It could
be Japan. It could be a network that runs across all three, so
it is not just the U.S. coordinating with one entity. It is
trying to get all those entities coordinating, and around
various differences in their own laws, and sometimes the
strongest venue for the prosecution is in one of those foreign
venues.
Senator Kaine. Right. Right.
Mr. Brown. We have had some success. As I mentioned, we
have arrested 15 persons truly aligned with the criminal
organizations, all overseas. Some of that has been through
coordinated undercover activity between the U.S. Government and
overseas law enforcement.
Senator Kaine. When you do those arrests, is the intention
always to try to bring somebody back here for prosecution, or
as you point out, in some other countries, the laws may even be
better. Do you try to work with local authorities so the
criminal cases are initiated in the jurisdictions where you
arrest people?
Mr. Brown. Wherever the best case is.
Senator Kaine. Yes.
Mr. Brown. Certainly, if we are generating a large part of
the evidence overseas or if the evidence exists overseas,
oftentimes, it is best to prosecute the case overseas.
Senator Kaine. Mm-hmm, and can I just kind of hear the
Justice Department's perspective on this same issue, about
going after these crooks who are overseas and how challenging
it is and what success you are having.
Ms. Steinberg. Certainly, and the members of the Committee
are right. I think several members have indicated that when
there is an international component to these cases, it just
adds just an extra layer of complexity, and what we have found
is that the positive engagement of these foreign governments is
very important. We do that, and, obviously, other agencies do
that.
I think the Project JOLT is a reflection of the positive
sort of results of those kind of partnerships, whether it be a
working group or it be through other means, that we work with
these governments to--through MLATs to be getting evidence or
through extradition requests, and you know, for example,
Project JOLT, we have had our first extradition from Jamaica,
and once you kind of get over that first hurdle, it gets
easier, and so, that is just what we do. We just work the
cases, and we will keep doing that.
Senator Kaine. Thank you. I may want to ask a question just
for the record about if there are countries with whom you would
like to have stronger cooperation. I know colleagues on the
Foreign Relations Committee would be interested in that. We
have a lot of opportunities to interact with a lot of these
countries and bring up issues of significance, and if there are
countries in this kind of scam area where better cooperation
would be helpful to either of your agencies, I think we would
like to know them and maybe we could pursue that.
The Chairman. Thank you.
Senator Tillis.
Senator Tillis. Thank you, Madam Chair.
I tell you, the only positive thing I heard out of many of
the testimony of the witnesses was the 20-year sentence that
one of these thugs received. I hope that he or she serves every
single day of it.
Mr. Martin, can you tell me a little bit about the cost
that has been incurred by your family in the process of trying
to untangle this mess that your father is involved in, the
actual economic cost and what you are going through right now.
Mr. Martin. Yes, Senator. It is about 5,000 Euros is what
his lawyer is charging, which is a very good price, because
when I received the referrals from State Department, most of
them wanted 10,000 retainer, and we found one that would do it
for 5,000 spread over time, so we are just basically paying him
what we can each month, so----
Senator Tillis. Mr. Brown or Ms. Steinberg, are you all
familiar--do you have any insights into the reverse, people
being scammed in other countries coming to the United States,
if there is any evidence of that and how well we are doing in
dealing with the victims on this side of the ocean?
Mr. Brown. We have not really seen evidence of that, and
part of that is drug values. Unfortunately, drugs are not very
expensive here as they are in many European and Asian
countries. For example, you know, the street value of a
kilogram of meth from the United States is about $66,000. That
same street value figure for a kilogram of meth in Japan is
well north of $400,000, so if you are going to go to this
effort, they are trying to maximize their profit.
Senator Tillis. Ms. Steinberg, are you aware of any
instances like this or prosecution cases?
Ms. Steinberg. No, sir.
Senator Tillis. I guess that is a good thing.
I have a--Mr. Brown, if you take a look at what law
enforcement is trying to do now, say, with sexual predators,
going out there and really baiting them into a condition where
the first time they are interacting with somebody, they are
interacting with law enforcement, are there any resources now
being applied to those sorts of efforts, either for this scam
or any number of scams where you can probably identify the kind
of profile that they are looking at and have them have the
unpleasant situation of it being a U.S. law enforcement agency?
Mr. Brown. Yes, there are. There is a lot of logistical
hurdles to that, you know, not knowing where the scammers exist
kind of until you kind of get into the scam and have some time
to crack the Internet spoofing that they are doing to figure
out where they may actually be, and then having to figure out
what are the laws in that country that apply makes that
challenging, but yes, it has been done. Certainly, where we can
identify people that are being scammed, we have had people give
us access to their e-mails, where we have stepped in and
assumed the role of the victim in an undercover capacity, but
one of the challenges remains, it is a very under-reported
crime. You know, people do not recognize they are getting
scammed. Hence, it is a scam, so that opportunity is not always
there as often as we would like it to be.
Senator Tillis. A lot of this--we have dealt with several
hearings where we are talking about people preying on seniors,
and, really, a lot of this does come back down to education and
trying to do our best to make sure, as you said, if it seems
too good to be true, it probably is.
What coordination have we had with other agencies that are,
say, more likely to touch the seniors population, to use them
as channels for education? I am thinking anytime we interact
with anyone who is on Social Security, anyone who is on
Medicare, or maybe Veterans Administration for seniors. Are
there any coordinated efforts there to make sure that they are
using those touchpoints to educate on this and any number of
other potential risks that seniors are being exploited for?
Mr. Brown. Absolutely. We try to do outreach through any
and every available avenue. We have not specifically gone to
Social Security, but I will actually take that as a good idea
to followup on, but we do outreach through many of the things
that Ms. Steinberg touched on, through some of those same
interagency working groups, through some of those same
conferences.
Senator Tillis. It just seems like----
Mr. Brown. What we also--I am sorry.
Senator Tillis. I am sorry. Go ahead.
Mr. Brown. We have also done proactively through our field
offices, gone out and talked in nursing homes, to not just the
people living there, but their family members, just to do
anything we can to raise awareness.
Senator Tillis. Well, you know, I hope that we can just
figure out a way to at least let this be an instance where
seniors can find some safe haven and calling a number, or
forwarding an e-mail. When in doubt, send it here and let us
see if we can identify patterns. It just seems like there are
some natural connections, particularly, as I said, with Social
Security and Medicare, where we may be able to, on a very cost
effective basis, have a pretty broad reach out there beyond
what you would do in the communities and on a recurring basis,
because they continue to get more sophisticated. They continue
to produce more dreadful outcomes, and everything we can do to
increase education is going to be the single greatest way to
improve the situation.
Finally, I want to associate myself with everything Senator
McCaskill said in terms of getting information and trying to
get behind these 30. I think you said 145 have been affected by
it. Forty-four were still in custody. Of those 44, 30 are U.S.
citizens. Anything that we can do, and I think I probably speak
for all the members, to move heaven and earth to try to get
them back, if we are absolutely certain that they are innocent,
then we certainly want to do that. It is horrible to think Mr.
Martin and others are being held as victims. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Senator Casey.
Senator Casey. Thanks very much.
I want to thank the panel for your testimony and for your
work on this. Mr. Martin, we appreciate you bringing a personal
story that is hard to hear because of what happened to your
father, and I know it is not easy to tell that story, so we
appreciate it, but it does have the benefit of giving us a
better understanding. It is not just conceptual or theoretical
when you hear your story.
I was going to direct, I think, maybe two questions to Mr.
Brown in the time that I have. I have been in government a
while. I have been here in Washington 9 years, and prior to
that 10 years in the State government, and so, if you are
around government a lot or somewhat connected to government
service of one kind or another, we tend to think in terms of,
you know, specific parts of budgets and different agencies, so
it is very easy for us to kind of keep track of where things
fit.
Most folks out there, because they are not dealing with
government on a regular basis, do not know where to turn
sometimes to get information. It is probably true of every
Senate office that back home, we get as many calls about some
other level of government, and that is just the nature of the
complexity of different levels of government, but maybe
especially when someone is under siege or they have got--they
are under attack, in a sense, because a scammer has put
pressure on them and caused a lot of anxiety and pain, that is
probably the worst time for them to try to determine where to
start.
I guess one thing I would ask, and this is based upon
constituents that have asked us, or presented to us cases where
a family member or someone they know has been affected, what is
the best way for either, I guess, a family member or even an
aging organization to report incidents like this? And I know
you may have addressed this, but I just wanted to, by way of
reiteration, if you have not.
Mr. Brown. Thank you for giving me that opportunity,
because I had not gotten a chance to say that yet. Again, the
Committee itself maintains a tip line and the Committee
coordinates very closely, referring cases, as appropriate, to
ICE, but we also maintain our own tip line. The phone number is
1-866-DHS-2ICE, or 1-866-347-2423. You can also go to
www.ice.gov and report tips there. Our tip line is manned 24/7,
you know, 365 days of the year. We have agents. We have
intelligence analysts, and if it falls outside of our purview,
we will get it to the right people that can do something with
it.
Senator Casey. Um-hmm. Can you repeat the number again,
just----
Mr. Brown. Yes. It is----
Senator Casey [continuing]. just one more time.
Mr. Brown. It is 1-866-347-2423, or 1-866-DHS-2ICE.
Senator Casey. Great. We appreciate that, because that
helps to give folks a place to go.
I guess the other question I had with regard to ICE--maybe
two more, and I will make the second one quick--has ICE been
able to determine a root cause for the increase in these kinds
of crimes, international crimes? Is there any predicate to it
that would help us better combat it, or----
Mr. Brown. I could speculate. I do not know that I have got
a formal finding on that.
Senator Casey. Okay.
Mr. Brown. They are low overhead. If you have got a
computer, if you have got a phone, you can commit these scams.
Senator Casey. Right.
Mr. Brown. Just, the abundance of information out there on
people in the age of the Internet, be it social media, be it
just pulling information out of obituaries, has made it much
easier to sell a believable story.
Senator Casey. The last question I will ask, and you can
amplify it in a written response, if you want, is just one of
the reasons we have hearings is to have you tell us what you
need, or what you hope we would, by way of new legislation, new
policy, new funding, whatever it is, I hope you either today or
in written form tell us what you hope this Committee could do
to better equip you to do your job.
Mr. Brown. I will take that back to get you as complete an
answer as I possibly can.
Senator Casey. Great. Thanks very much.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Cotton.
Senator Cotton. Thank you, and Mr. Martin, I also reviews
your testimony. I want to associate myself with the remarks of
the other Senators here, saying that it is both poignant and
appalling. I cannot believe that U.S. citizens would face this
kind of treatment abroad, particularly with countries that are
allies.
You certainly are blessed with a very capable and effective
advocate in Senator Collins. What has been your experience with
some of the agencies and departments of our Federal Government,
say, the State Department, for instance, in this case?
Mr. Martin. The individual I was dealing with with the
State Department was excellent. I mean, we have an ongoing
relationship with her because we wire money to him once a
month. He needs money for--in prison to buy things. I cannot
say enough about the job they have done for him, and you know,
the government of Spain themselves, I really do not hold to
blame. I mean, they have had an influx of drugs through their
country and they have actually lowered the sentencing, from
what I have been told, from what it used to be, but again, in
his case, he did not go to trial. You know, he could not afford
the trial, so he just pled out and got the least sentence that
was available to him, and then the strategy is to just try to
work with, you know, his attorney working with the government
to see if they can get him expelled and sent back. He is not a
threat to anybody, you know.
Senator Cotton. Do you believe that the government of Spain
is aware of all of the facts of the case and accepts those
facts as true?
Mr. Martin. I honestly do not know, Senator. I kind of
doubt it, you know, that it is that big of a priority to them.
He is one of many in their jails from all over the world.
Senator Cotton. Ms. Steinberg, you have been a prosecutor.
Do you think it is difficult to assemble the facts in a case
like this to present that to a foreign government and say, yes,
he seems--this gentleman seems to have been caught red handed,
but here are the facts behind our conclusion that he was an
innocent victim of a scam of a genuine drug trafficker?
Ms. Steinberg. I think, in this situation, what you would
go about doing is--it would not necessarily be a prosecutive
type of endeavor, but it would be through sort of the
relationships that we have, for example, the ICE attache that
might be in country to communicate with their counterparts the
information that we might have that would help influence the
process.
Again, I do not have a lot of information about these
particular facts, but that is generally how we would go about
exchanging that information, and that is how we make the most
progress, as I indicated, when we have these sort of
international cases, is sort of forging these positive
relationships with our foreign counterparts and encouraging
them to cooperate with us, and that goes both ways.
Senator Cotton. Mr. Brown, what is your perspective on
that?
Mr. Brown. One of the things that we have done in our
overall efforts under Operation Cocoon is not just shared
investigative referrals. We have shared our targeting
methodology with these countries, because I want to be very
clear, this is not just a U.S. citizen issue. You know, this
happens to people all over the world that are getting duped
into this same thing. We just happened to stumble upon it
first.
A lot of these other countries, because of the level of
information that we are sharing with them, have a very good
understanding and are coming to a very good understanding that
this scheme does exist. As I said, where we can get our hands
on potentially exculpatory information, we are doing everything
we can to get that into the right hands with the foreign
government.
Senator Cotton. Okay. I just find it astonishing that,
given what I believe is the relatively straightforward
investigative matters, that you would assemble the facts
necessary to prove Mr. Martin's innocence and present it to,
especially an allied country, that this matter would not have
been resolved before now. I mean, our military and our
intelligence services often stand as a proxy for other
countries. Our nuclear umbrella extends deterrence to most
countries in the world. We have an $18 trillion economy, the
largest consumer economy in the world. We have a lot of
leverage that, at least at a minister to minister level, we
should be willing to exert.
You have heard some of the Senators in this hearing give
Mr. Brown the opportunity to State the phone number or website
or what have you. I would like to State for the record that I
hope any Arkansans, at least, and I would subject any
Americans, feel that they can contact their Congressman and
their Senator about this.
In some cases when Americans have been held unjustly as
hostages, people like Congressman Dale Kildee from Michigan or
Congressman Ted Deutch from Florida have been dogged advocates
for their release. As I know Senator Collins is a tireless
advocate here, I certainly would do the same thing, and I
venture that any member of this panel or the Senate would, as
well, to help assemble the facts necessary and to assure it
receives attention at the highest levels of the State
Department, so unjustly detained, often victimized senior
citizens can be released promptly and returned home, given all
the massive leverage that the U.S. Government has with other
governments around the world.
Mr. Martin, I am very sorry about this, but I hope that all
Americans who have family members who fall victim to scam know
that they can contact their Senator or their Congressman to
help expedite matters, as well.
The Chairman. Thank you very much. Your point is so well
taken, and we are going to work closely with ICE. We have a
list of the countries where this appears to have occurred that
I am going to be following up with Mr. Brown on.
Senator Cotton. If I could just say, as well, for the
record, to reference something that Senator Tillis said, I
would hope the reverse would be true, as well----
The Chairman. Right.
Senator Cotton [continuing]. if a foreign citizen was in
this case on American soil, that our allies' foreign ministers
or prime ministers would feel they can contact the ministers at
the highest level of our government and have this resolved
expeditiously, because we certainly would not want to have in
detention foreign citizens here who are innocent victims of a
scam and that we would want to move matters along as promptly
as possible outside the ordinary course of the criminal justice
system, since this is as much a matter of diplomatic relations
between friends and partners as it is traditional criminal
justice.
The Chairman. Exactly. Thank you.
Senator Gillibrand.
Senator Gillibrand. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman and Madam
Ranking Member. I am very grateful that you are holding this
hearing. Obviously, these stories are very alarming and
extremely upsetting.
I would like to ask Mr. Brown, how do these scammers make
the initial contact with potential victims, and what red flags
can our seniors look out for, and what are some of the factors
that make older adults more vulnerable for these schemes, and
how are we trying to prevent this crime?
Mr. Brown. I will kind of start at the reverse order. Older
Americans tend to be more susceptible, oftentimes because they
do not have the Internet savvy. They may not have--there may be
a level of cognitive or memory impairment. Oftentimes, there is
a challenge of just being lonely and it is an outlet. It is
somebody to talk to. It is a friend when maybe you are not that
mobile and you cannot get out and associate with friends.
I forgot the other parts of your question.
Senator Gillibrand. What can we do to prevent this?
Mr. Brown. Again, I think, again, vigorous prosecutions
where we can, be they in the U.S. or overseas, but education
and making sure that where you think there is a scam, that law
enforcement is getting that information so that we can build
those successful cases that we can take to the prosecutors, get
successful prosecutions that we can use to identify additional
people before they potentially travel and get themselves in hot
water.
Senator Gillibrand. Ms. Steinberg.
Ms. Steinberg. I agree that the early intervention and
prevention efforts are essential, and that is a cornerstone of
our Elder Justice Initiative. We across the country are doing
outreach events through our U.S. Attorneys community, through
our victim witness coordinators, and also through main Justice,
as well, to talk about these different schemes and, you know,
targeting it toward the communities that are most vulnerable,
including our seniors.
Speaking to the first part of your question, about what
makes individuals more vulnerable or at risk, there is actually
research in the field about it, and some of that is actually
funded by the Department. It talks about issues of cognitive
impairment, isolation, and then, ultimately, embarrassment that
drives the desire to keep it secret and not disclose it, which
then causes sort of this domino effect of additional
victimization.
Senator Gillibrand. How do you do that outreach? I have
done roundtables and various educational events for seniors
around my State. How does the DOJ actually interface with
seniors? How do you meet with them? Where do you have these
meetings? How often do they take place? How many have you had
in New York?
Ms. Steinberg. Well, I can give you a few examples from
around the country. One of the examples is the Rocky Mountain
Fraud Summit, which happens in Denver. It is something that is
driven by the U.S. Attorney's Office there. They go into
community, particularly senior living facilities, and they do
interactive presentations and run scenarios, and that is also
something that was done in Minnesota, as well, also driven out
of the U.S. Attorney's Office.
We also have an example in Tulsa, where they did outreach
regarding an IRS impersonation scam. The U.S. Attorney released
a press release and did some engagement on that particular scam
to educate people, so that is sort of field-based outreach that
happens day to day, just, you know, within the U.S. Attorneys'
community, victim witness coordinators, and NAUSAs.
We also--obviously, programming at main Justice, as well. A
lot of that is run through our Elder Justice Initiative. We
have a website that has been accessed over half-a-million
times, and there are actually really incredible resources
there. You can actually look at it by theme, the type of
victimization, the type of scheme, and you also can get
granularly into individual states, not just law enforcement,
but also adult protective services and the other services that
might be available that are not just law enforcement services,
so we take both approaches, both in the field level and through
main Justice.
Senator Gillibrand. Well, I would certainly welcome that
activity in my State if you have the opportunity to advocate
for that, but it is needed and we have had a lot of--so many
financial and fraud scams in our State, because we have a lot
of retirees and they have a lot of resources and they are huge
targets.
Mr. Martin, have you been able to successfully engage the
State Department?
Mr. Martin. To do what?
Senator Gillibrand. To help your Dad.
Mr. Martin. They basically are saying that there is nothing
they can do at this point. You know, he is in their criminal
justice system. He has been sentenced and I do not think they
are doing anything.
Senator Gillibrand. I think that is outrageous, and I know
many people on this panel will feel the same way. We will look
forward to engaging the State Department on your behalf.
Mr. Martin. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Gillibrand. Thank you for testifying.
Mr. Martin. Thank you.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Blumenthal.
Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank
you for having this hearing.
As a former U.S. Attorney and also a State Attorney
General, I join my colleagues in the outrage they have
expressed and being appalled and astonished by evidently a
fairly common scam that involves victims from this country,
seniors, being lured into drug transport schemes through
various means that result in their being imprisoned abroad, so
there are really two aspects to the relief that we want to
provide. Number one, catch the scammers. Number two, seek the
release of innocent victims who are not only financially
potentially victims, but also in terms of their personal
imprisonment.
I join Senator Cotton in feeling that there ought to be
remedies at the government to government level that would seek
release of people who, under our own laws, would be acquitted
because of lack of criminal intent. They may have been in
possession of certain banned, illicit substances, but under our
own laws, they would be clearly acquitted because there is no
strict liability in this country under our criminal laws.
If you can tell us, what are the countries where our
citizens are in prison? If you have answered that question
already, I apologize for asking you again, but maybe you can
tell us.
Mr. Brown. I do not have that list with me. Spain,
obviously, where Mr. Martin is. New Zealand, although they have
been very----
Senator Blumenthal. I have read that. Mr. Soles, I think,
is in----
Mr. Brown. Mr. Soles is now out.
Senator Blumenthal. He is out----
Mr. Brown. Yes.
Senator Blumenthal [continuing]. but he was in New Zealand.
Mr. Brown. He was in--yes.
Senator Blumenthal. Are there other Americans in New
Zealand now in prison?
Mr. Brown. Not to the best of my knowledge, but I would
have to follow back on that. As I explained earlier, one of our
challenges is, with privacy laws in some of these countries, we
do not necessarily know where that person stands in the
prosecution phase, so oftentimes, we are tracking whether a
person is still in custody simply by have they----
Senator Blumenthal. You mean, in those countries, trials
are not open.
Mr. Brown. In some of those countries, that is correct.
Senator Blumenthal. Well, here is--I know you are--I do not
want to put you on the spot today in this hearing, but I think
one of the basic questions is, what countries, how many U.S.
citizens, and whether we can do anything about it, right?
Mr. Brown. Yes.
Senator Blumenthal. The solution is not a habeas corpus
petition in those countries filed by their attorneys. For them,
habeas corpus is a non-remedy, presumably, so we might as well
be filing a ham sandwich in those countries, and at the
government to government level, we need to know what the
governments are, what the countries are, so that, as Senator
Cotton has suggested, whether it is ministerial or Presidential
or whatever level, we need to free those Americans, so I am
making a request that you provide this Committee on whatever
basis you can, confidentially or otherwise, a list of those
countries.
Mr. Brown. We will work on that. State Department also
could probably provide you some pretty good answers on that
because they have some more visibility on that once it gets to
that phase.
Senator Blumenthal. Let me then pursue what I think has
been another line of questioning here. In terms of the scammers
themselves, how many cases have been made against them?
Mr. Brown. We have--specific to Cocoon, there have been 15
persons tied to the transnational criminal organizations
arrested and prosecuted, all of which were done overseas but in
concert with my agency, and there are numerous ongoing
investigations which I am not at liberty to talk about.
Senator Blumenthal. There are ongoing investigations.
Fifteen----
Mr. Brown. Fifteen----
Senator Blumenthal [continuing]. individual defendants
charged?
Mr. Brown. Correct.
Senator Blumenthal. Have they--what is the status of those
prosecutions?
Mr. Brown. Some of those are still going through the legal
process in the countries where they have been charged.
Senator Blumenthal. They have not been charged in this
country?
Mr. Brown. No, they have not.
Senator Blumenthal. Why not?
Mr. Brown. Again, it is simply an issue of where the best
evidence lies.
Senator Blumenthal. Why have they not been extradited? Why
have they not been charged in this country? Their victims are
American citizens. Why are we--and I apologize for maybe
stating this in non-legal terms--why are we counting on their
justice system that is already imprisoning our citizens
unjustly to exact justice for making those citizens victims?
Why do we not extradite them? Why do we not charge them here?
Why do we not prosecute them here? What is the point of
investigating them if we are not going to prosecute them here?
Mr. Brown. In certain instances, there probably would not
be sufficient venue in the U.S. If a person flies--and, again,
I am not an attorney. I am a law enforcement officer, and there
is a different. Umm----
Senator Blumenthal. Okay. Again, I do not want to put you
on the spot, and I do not want you to speculate. Ms. Steinberg,
you are a lawyer, so you may have another answer, so chime in
if you wish, but also, I would like that information, simply as
to where the trials are taking place and some explanation for
why it is not here.
Mr. Brown. We will get you that information.
Senator Blumenthal. Thank you.
My time has long since expired, so thank you, Madam
Chairwoman.
The Chairman. Thank you.
I just have a couple more questions that I want to quickly
touch on.
Mr. Brown, from what I understand, some seniors look inside
the package or the suitcase that they are given and they would
look at them and not be able to tell that they were carrying
drugs. Is that accurate, and can you show us the photos you
have brought with you?
Mr. Brown. Absolutely. All the pictures that you will see
are from Cocoon victims, so in this instance, this is a person
who was given a bag of candy to take along as a gift from stop
B to stop C on their trip. When you open the wrappers, and
there is a picture that shows that, methamphetamine, not candy,
so unless the person went to that level of scrutinizing what
they had, they would not know.
This is one of the common tactics, and it has been a common
tactic for smuggling in the commercial air environment for
forever, is a false walled suitcase. This is where--about the
thickness of a sheet of cardboard. The drugs are put into the
lining of the suitcase. Again, there is a weight difference. I
believe this suitcase contained seven kilograms of cocaine, so
about an extra 15 pounds in that suitcase, but you know, just
looking at the suitcase, absent that X-ray, you are not going
to see it, and this is how they probe it in the airport
environment. When that drill bit comes out with a white powdery
substance, then they will proceed further into destroying the
suitcase, but until they have that probe, they are not even
sure. You know, they have got an X-ray that is suspicious. Then
they will take it to this step to confirm that the drugs are
inside.
The Chairman. That is a really good example, because in
this case, from what I can see, the drugs are hidden in the
lining of the suitcase, is that accurate?
Mr. Brown. Absolutely. If you, you know, were not familiar
with the weight of the empty suitcase, or what the wall feeling
of that suitcase is, it is not visible to the naked eye in any
way, shape, or form.
The Chairman. I think that is a really important point,
because even if the senior is curious about what it is, they
would open the suitcase and still think nothing was amiss, is
that accurate?
Mr. Brown. That is accurate. Really, the only indicator
would be potentially the extra weight.
The Chairman. The weight.
Mr. Brown. That is one of the reasons why seniors
potentially could be more vulnerable, is, you know, luggage has
gotten lighter over the years. If you have not traveled a lot
or you have traveled with your old suitcase, that extra 15
pounds or whatever the extra weight may be may not be
noticeable.
The Chairman. Finally, I would like you to give us a little
more detail on the example of the 97-year-old gentleman that, I
believe, you were able to intercept, if you could tell us a
little bit about that case, not how you identified him but
where was he headed for, where did you head him off, and also,
if you have a case where one of your agents tried to intervene
and the senior was so caught up in a romance scam and
believed--the people had been warned to not believe law
enforcement, if you could give us those two examples.
Mr. Brown. With the 97-year-old, he was traveling with his
adult daughter. I believe she was in her 60's. I do not
remember the exact routing of his trip, but I do remember, is I
believe he was supposed to fly out of Atlanta. At the last
minute, they rerouted his flight to Detroit, so we had agents
standing by to intercept him at the airport. They quickly had
to get hold of another office and get agents scrambling to get
to his new route of travel.
His case was a little more complicated. He was being
targeted by what is called a black money scheme, and I do not
know if the Committee is familiar with that----
The Chairman. I am not.
Mr. Brown. One of the prevalent frauds is what is called a
black money scheme, and in a nutshell, it is the person claims
that, hey, I have got a bunch of generally U.S. dollars. They
have got tainted. They are all dyed black, but I have
discovered a secret powder that will get the black off and then
we will have these millions of dollars.
In the instance of the 97-year-old, he thought he was going
to pick up this magical powder, take it to the third country
where the money would be cleaned and he would get a chunk of
the money for delivering this magical powder. One of the
documents he had in his possession when our agents talked to
him was a letter from--in this case, it was a West African
organization that was scamming him--saying, you know, hey, if
you are stopped, this is addressed to whatever customs
officials this man was going to meet along the way--and just to
make him feel better, it would not have meant anything to the
customs officials he met--saying, hey, this powder is our
responsibility, it is not his responsibility. You know, that
would not have gotten him out of jail.
The Chairman. Exactly.
Mr. Brown. In that case, he did admit--which is one of the
challenges--that he suspected he might have been doing
something wrong, but the potential of the financial reward was
enough to make him think it might be worth doing.
We had another instance, to go to the second part of your
question, where we had a gentleman in Alabama that the
targeting efforts picked up. We had enough lead time where we
were able to send agents out to his residence to talk to him.
While our agents were there standing on his front porch talking
to him, the scammers called. His wife answered the phone, kind
of told them, hey, we have got agents here talking to us right
now. They said, well, that is not real law enforcement. We are
working with real law enforcement. Our agents got escorted off
the property at the end of a barrel of a shotgun, but again,
that comes down to the challenge of I cannot stop a U.S.
citizen from traveling if they choose to.
The nice happy ending to that story is that gentleman
ultimately did come to his senses and decide the people
standing on his porch were the ones telling him the truth. He
did not travel.
The Chairman. I was going to ask you whether, ultimately,
he traveled or not and what happened, so I am glad that it had
a happy ending, and again, I commend you for bringing this scam
to our attention.
Mr. Martin, as you heard today, there is a lot of sympathy
among the members of this panel and also feeling that what
happened to your father appears to be so unfair, and we will
followup.
Mr. Brown, if you could help us--I know we have had
conversations with you identifying countries in which you
believe victimized elderly and senior Americans are being held,
and if we could work further with you to try to take a look at
that list and see if there is a way that diplomatically we
could intervene to get these people returned home, whose only
crime really was being extraordinarily gullible, so I thank you
very much.
Senator McCaskill.
Senator McCaskill. I just have a couple of things. We are
going to release the annual report on what comes in across our
fraud hotline, and it is tiny compared to what is out there,
because very few people really know that there is a fraud
hotline that exists at the U.S. Senate, and I am not sure at
this point in time in our country's history very many people
trust that we are as serious about this as we are.
By the way, the Chairman and I have been discussing between
us during this hearing how proud we are of you, Mr. Brown, and
your colleagues. We spend a lot of time--it seems it is very
fashionable these days to beat up government every chance we
get in every way we can, and this is a great example. You came
to the Committee with this issue and we are honored that you
did. You all have--are obviously trying to intercept people at
airports to keep them from going down this path, which is
really admirable. You have a lot on your plate, so while I am
stern and want you to do more, I do respect deeply that you all
have big jobs and lots of responsibilities.
When we release this fraud report, it will basically surf
over the highlights of what is really going on in terms of
seniors being victimized in this country through scams, a lot
of which have an international component. If you would organize
your response to the Committee so that we can look at it based
on the scams that we have had hearings about that we know are
so prevalent, particularly the IRS impersonation, the Jamaican
lottery sweepstakes, certainly the government grant scams, and
to the extent that we could look at this drug mule, because,
obviously, this is so international. It is steeped with an
international component. Then, I think we would better
understand the resources that are being spent right now at
Justice and what we need to do to augment those, if necessary.
In that regard, it would really be helpful, Ms. Steinberg,
if we would know whose portfolio this really is. I think your
job probably is much bigger than this job. I think you got the
short straw. We respect the fact that you are here. We have had
difficulty with the previous Attorney General, getting
witnesses to appear in front of our committee, so we are--I do
not want to be so mean to you that you never come back, because
we are glad you are here.
It would be helpful--because I understand this weird
tension between the mother ship and the USAs. You know, you do
not need to say anything, because that would be inappropriate
of you, but I completely get it. The mother ship has certain
things it does in terms of sending signals to all the USAs
around the country as to what their priorities should be.
Sometimes there is an askance look at, what are you doing? This
is not really our priority, and sometimes there is, that is it.
That is what we want you to really be looking at.
In order for me to get a handle on whether or not it is
true, what the local law enforcement is telling us, that they
cannot get you guys interested in this, I need to know who is
responsible for this portfolio at the mother ship. Who is it
that is most directly responsible for sending a signal out that
this is a worthy use of the Justice Department's resources. If
you could help me with that, then we can be more specific in
our followup questions to make sure that we are addressing that
to the right person, and that would be really helpful.
Ms. Steinberg. Sure. As you have accurately pointed out, we
have--our system of prosecution is somewhat decentralized. Each
U.S. Attorney's Office, you know, they are making individual
decisions about individual cases as they come in based on facts
and evidence, and at main, you know, we signal out to the field
about what our priorities are.
We have things that are going on also in main Justice. We
have cases that are driven out of main Justice. We have the
Elder Justice Initiative, which is out of the Civil Section.
Our Consumer Protection Branch has concurrent civil and
criminal jurisdiction, so they can drive both of those types of
cases. We also have cases that are driven out of our Criminal
Division, the Medicare fraud cases.
We do have responsibility dispersed throughout the
Department on criminal matters, which is what I perceive your
primary interest is----
Senator McCaskill. Yes, and this probably is one of the
issues here, because you could--is this consumer? You know, is
this--and, I guess what I am really trying to get at is who is
going to either show lots of love as these cases are being
filed at USAs' offices, or who is going to go, what are you
doing? How many times have we told you, you are supposed to be
doing child porn stings, or you are supposed to be doing gun
stuff, or you are supposed to be doing more stuff on the
terrorism. I mean, that is what I want to try to get a handle
on, is whose portfolio it is.
Finally and most importantly, I think the one thing that
you should leave this hearing with is that we will be calling
on the heads of your agencies and the State Department. We
ought to be able--I know how good law enforcement is in this
country, Mr. Brown. I mean, law enforcement is amazing. The
reason we do not have these cases in our country is because
these criminals know they will get caught here and they will be
put in prison here, so they are hanging out in other countries
because they think they can get away with it.
I am fully aware of how good law enforcement is. I know
that we can figure out if all of these 30 people, these elderly
people in prisons around the country, are victims, and once we
figure out they are victims through our use of our law
enforcement resources, then we have got to use all the
resources we have to get them home. I think this is really a
stain, and I think we all need to put a lot more attention to
it.
I know that Senator Collins feels strongly about it, Mr.
Martin, but I really want to get your Dad home, and we are
going to do everything we can----
Mr. Martin. Thank you.
Senator McCaskill [continuing]. to get him home.
Mr. Martin. I really appreciate that.
Senator McCaskill. Okay. Thank you all very much.
The Chairman. Thank you, Senator McCaskill.
Committee members have until Friday, February 26, to submit
any questions for the record.
I want to again thank all of our witnesses today, my
Ranking Member, Senator McCaskill, who always brings her keen
legal skills to every hearing that we have, and all of the
Committee members who participated in today's hearing. We had
extraordinary participation today, which shows you how
important the Committee members view this issue, and I also
want to thank the Committee staff for its preparation.
This hearing is now adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 4:09 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
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APPENDIX
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Prepared Witness Statements
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