[Senate Hearing 114-484]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 114-484
IMPROVING VA ACCOUNTABILITY:
EXAMINING FIRST HAND ACCOUNTS OF
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS WHISTLEBLOWERS
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
SEPTEMBER 22, 2015
__________
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov/
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Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
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COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin Chairman
JOHN McCAIN, Arizona THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware
ROB PORTMAN, Ohio CLAIRE McCASKILL, Missouri
RAND PAUL, Kentucky JON TESTER, Montana
JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin
MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota
KELLY AYOTTE, New Hampshire CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
JONI ERNST, Iowa GARY C. PETERS, Michigan
BEN SASSE, Nebraska
Keith B. Ashdown, Staff Director
Kyle Brosnan, Counsel
Gabrielle A. Batkin, Minority Staff Director
John P. Kilvington, Minority Deputy Staff Director
Brian F. Papp, Jr., Minority Legislative Aide
Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk
Lauren M. Corcoran, Hearing Clerk
C O N T E N T S
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Opening statements:
Page
Senator Johnson.............................................. 1
Senator Baldwin.............................................. 14
Senator Tester............................................... 16
Senator Ernst................................................ 19
Senator Ayotte............................................... 21
Senator Carper............................................... 25
Senator McCain............................................... 27
Senator Peters............................................... 48
Senator McCaskill............................................ 50
Prepared statements:
Senator Johnson.............................................. 61
Senator Carper............................................... 63
WITNESS
Tuesday, September 22, 2015
Sean Kirkpatrick, Chicago Illinois............................... 3
Brandon W. Coleman, Sr., Ph.D. (c), LISAC, Addiction Therapist,
Phoenix VA Health Care System, Phoenix, Arizona................ 5
Joseph Colon, Credentialing Program Support, VA Caribbean
Healthcare System, San Juan, Puerto Rico....................... 7
Shea Wilkes, Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Overton Brooks VA
Medical Center, Shreveport, Louisiana.......................... 9
Hon. Carolyn N. Lerner, Special Counsel, U.S. Office of Special
Counsel........................................................ 35
Linda A. Halliday, Deputy Inspector General, U.S. Department of
Veterans Affairs............................................... 37
Carolyn Clancy, M.D., Chief Medical Officer, Veterans Health
Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs;
accompanied by Michael Culpepper, Acting Director, Office of
Accountability Review.......................................... 39
Alphabetical List of Witnesses
Clancy, Carolyn:
Testimony.................................................... 39
Prepared statement........................................... 117
Coleman, Brandon, W.:
Testimony.................................................... 5
Prepared statement........................................... 72
Colon, Joseph.:
Testimony.................................................... 7
Prepared statement........................................... 78
Halliday, Linda A.:
Testimony.................................................... 37
Prepared statement........................................... 110
Kirkpatrick, Sean:
Testimony.................................................... 3
Prepared statement........................................... 65
Lerner, Hon. Carolyn N.:
Testimony.................................................... 35
Prepared statement........................................... 97
Wilkes, Sean:
Testimony.................................................... 9
Prepared statement........................................... 82
IMPROVING VA ACCOUNTABILITY:
EXAMINING FIRSTHAND ACCOUNTS OF
DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS WHISTLEBLOWERS
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TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 22, 2015
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Homeland Security
and Governmental Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:34 a.m., in
room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Ron Johnson,
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Johnson, McCain, Ayotte, Ernst, Carper,
McCaskill, Tester, Baldwin, and Peters.
OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN JOHNSON
Chairman Johnson. Good morning. This hearing will come to
order. I want to welcome certainly our witnesses. Thank you for
your thoughtful testimony.
I am going to keep my opening statement very short because
we have a lot of witnesses, two panels. I also want to make
sure that the Committee Members understand we are going to keep
questioning to 5 minutes as well--unless we have very few
Senators, and then we might open it up again. But it sounds
like we are going to have some pretty good attendance.
I do ask that my written opening statement, be entered into
the record,\1\ without objection.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Senator Johnson appears in the
Appendix on page 61.
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As I read the whistleblower testimony as well as the
testimony from representatives from the Department of Veterans
Affairs (VA) and the agencies, and as we have held these
whistleblower hearings, the question I have--coming from the
private sector where, literally, I would be hanging a medal on
individuals in my organization that would go through the layers
of management to let me know what was happening on the shop
floor, it is extremely difficult when you are the top of an
organization to get that real information. Those people ought
to be rewarded, not retaliated against. And the question that I
will be asking everybody is: Why is retaliation so rampant
within the Federal Government? We are focusing on the VA and
the VA health care system here, but it is not isolated to the
VA. And what is amazing to me is it seems pretty simple, pretty
easy, unfortunately, for mid-level managers, within these
agencies and the Department to retaliate and terminate
whistleblowers, but then it is enormously difficult apparently
for department heads, Secretaries, top-level management to hold
those people that retaliate against whistleblowers accountable,
much less potentially even terminate them.
So, that is the problem, and from my standpoint, having run
organizations, there is nothing more corrosive to an
organization than when individuals within that organization get
away with mismanagement, retaliation, and they are not held
accountable. Nothing more corrosive. And we have a real problem
with the VA health care system, problems that we all want to
see fixed, and to me this is in many respects at the heart of
those problems. If we cannot hold individuals in the VA health
care system and, quite honestly, any manager within the Federal
Government accountable, we are going to continue to have
problems within all these agencies.
So I do want to point out, because it also is somewhat
baffling, we have had on the books whistleblower protection
laws for decades. The first whistleblower protection
legislation really was the Lloyd-La Follette Act of 1912,
followed by the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978, followed by
the Whistleblower Protection Act of 1989, followed by the
Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2012. So this is a
protection that has been well known for decades, really more
than a century, and yet we still see retaliation against
whistleblowers rampant within the Federal Government.
So, the purpose of this hearing is to lay these issues on
the table with some anecdotal stories here, some pretty
powerful ones, to talk to the people in the agencies, and in
good faith try and figure out a way to actually provide the
whistleblower protection that will actually work so that we can
get government to work more efficiently and effectively.
One last thing I want to point out is that within our
Senate office, because we value whistleblowers, they are
essential, we have set up a website, and I want everybody to
understand in the
Federal Government you can come to our office by using
[email protected]. I encourage
whistleblowers, if you feel uncomfortable talking to your
Office of Inspector General, if you feel uncomfortable talking
to your direct supervisor about these things, come to our
Committee, and we will certainly hear your story and will offer
whatever protection we certainly can.
With that, our Ranking Member is going to be a little bit
late. We will let him offer an opening statement when he gets
here, probably between the panels. But it is the tradition of
this Committee to swear in witnesses, so if you will all rise
and raise your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony you
will give before this Committee will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God?
Mr. Kirkpatrick. I do.
Mr. Coleman. I do.
Mr. Colon. I do.
Mr. Wilkes. I do.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you. Please be seated.
Our first witness will be Sean Kirkpatrick. Mr. Kirkpatrick
is testifying today on behalf of his late brother, Dr.
Christopher Kirkpatrick. Dr. Kirkpatrick was a psychologist at
the VA Medical Center in Tomah, Wisconsin, who raised concerns
about patient overmedication. On the day of his termination,
Dr. Kirkpatrick tragically committed suicide. Sean is joined in
the audience this morning by his sister, Kathryn. Mr.
Kirkpatrick.
TESTIMONY OF SEAN KIRKPATRICK,\1\ CHICAGO, ILLINOIS
Mr. Kirkpatrick. Thank you. My family would like to thank
the U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental
Affairs for holding this hearing.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Kirkpatrick appears in the
Appendix on page 65.
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It is an honor to be invited here to speak on behalf of my
late brother, Dr. Christopher Kirkpatrick. On July 14, 2009,
hours after being fired from the Tomah VA Medical Center, Chris
committed suicide. Our family found out the next day that he
was fired from the Tomah VA the morning he died. The reason
they told us they fired him was for missing too many hours.
Last winter, my family learned what really happened to
Chris. Ryan Honl, a brave VA whistleblower and former Tomah VA
employee, reached out to my family after he heard my brother's
story from Lin Ellinghuysen, president of the American
Federation of Government Employees (AFGE) in Tomah. Ryan put me
in touch with Lin, who provided my family with documentation
which proved Chris had raised concerns about possible
overmedications and other issues affecting his patients while
he was employed at the Tomah VA. If not for Ryan and Lin, my
family would have no idea what the truth was behind the
circumstances leading to his suicide.
Chris was having difficulty treating patients in the post
traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and substance abuse programs
he oversaw because they were unable to alert and engage in
therapy due apparently to the high level and type of
medications they were prescribed. Apparently, Chris had learned
a physician's assistant had complained to the chief of staff,
Dr. David Houlihan, that my brother was inappropriate in
discussing medications that patients they both see are
prescribed.
In an email to his union representative written on April
23, 2009, Chris addressed his concern that he was now in the
cross hairs of the chief of staff for suggesting that patients
may be overmedicated. He stated, ``I have had words with the
physician's assistant about medications and possible side
effect/adverse reactions patients were experiencing, but these
conversations happened months ago. These situations put me in
an ethical dilemma. Why this comes up as an issue now is open
to interpretation. Based on what others have told me, I have
every reason to be very afraid of Dr. Houlihan. I have
sacrificed a lot to move up here and do the kind of work I
excel at and help people. I need help.''
Chris was subsequently reprimanded by his supervisor at the
order of Chief of Staff Houlihan in the form of a written
counseling on April 30, 2009. One of the points he made in the
written counseling was that Chris should not be ``educating
patients about what medications they are on, and that he should
avoid advising on medications altogether.'' It is evident that
those in charge were more concerned about disciplining my
brother for questioning medication practices rather than
properly investigating the problem of overmedicated patients.
On July 14, 2009, 10 months after he was hired, Chris was
directed to report to the human resources (HR) office. Chris'
employment at the Tomah VA Medical Center was terminated during
this meeting. Chris was told his services were no longer needed
due to performance issues. Several frivolous allegations were
made, all of which had no bearing. Chris stated, ``I know why
this is happening. It is because of the note I put in the
patient's chart. He was difficult and violent. He did not
belong in this program. He stood at my office door and told me
that he intended to do harm to me and my dog. I told you about
this. The team decided this patient needed to be discharged and
released from the program. On Thursday, July 9, he was still
here. I charted this.''
Please note that Chris took a vacation day on Friday, July
10, and used a sick day on Monday, July 13, because that
threatening patient was not discharged and still there. Chris
was terminated that Tuesday, July 14.
He was a recent graduate psychologist studying for his
license with a full patient load, facilitating the group
therapies on his own, hearing in great detail about horrific
events experienced by his patients, but yet he had no guidance
and support, despite going through the proper chain of command
for assistance more than once. His life's goal of helping our
Nation's veterans battle PTSD through innovative psychotherapy
techniques was jeopardized because he questioned dangerous
medication practices. He did what was ethical and right, but
was only met with retaliation.
My family began to have hope that Chris, would be
vindicated after all these years since it seemed that the VA
was now taking a serious look at the many cases of retaliation
against Tomah staff and the dangerously high number of
medications being prescribed to the veterans there. However,
the Office of Inspector General (OIG) white paper report
released this past June was nothing but slanderous toward my
brother and insulting to my family. It suggested that he was a
drug dealer and it did not take his death seriously.
Apparently, the VA is still retaliating against Chris even to
this day. For my parents to have to read this public document
after everything they have been through is outrageous and
unconscionable.
Chris acted in the interests of the veterans at his own
expense when he raised concerns about the overmedication of VA
patients. His life was threatened by a hostile patient, and his
superiors did not discharge the patient after he was told they
would. His pleas for support and help managing the complex
cases he had were never acted upon. Knowing this now leaves my
family with the belief that the VA failed Chris. Furthermore,
we learned that the VA never even did an investigation into the
suicide of one of its psychologists.
The last thing that Chris said to Lin as she walked him to
his car after he was fired was, ``Try to get a support system
so that no one else has to go through what I did! Will you
please do that?''
We are asking the same thing of this Committee. Thank you.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Kirkpatrick.
Our next witness is Brandon Coleman. Mr. Coleman is a
Marine Corps veteran and addiction therapist at the Phoenix VA
Healthcare System. Mr. Coleman raised concerns about improper
care for suicidal veterans. Mr. Coleman.
TESTIMONY OF BRANDON W. COLEMAN, SR., PH.D.\1\ (c), LISAC,
ADDICTION THERAPIST, PHOENIX VA HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, PHOENIX,
ARIZONA
Mr. Coleman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. VA whistleblowers
risk the destruction of their careers for simply telling the
truth. During my time at the Phoenix VA, I have lost six
veterans to suicide. Each one is like a punch in the gut. I
have walked suicidal veterans to the Phoenix VA emergency room
(ER) after hours only to have them not watched and walk away
unaccounted for.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Coleman appears in the Appendix
on page 72.
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In October 2014, Phoenix VA social worker Penny Miller
admitted to improperly accessing my own Health Insurance
Portability and Accountability (HIPAA)-protected Veteran
Medical Records. This was only the start of improper and
unlawful behavior that would persist over the following year.
On December 6, 2014, I came forward to the Office of
Special Counsel (OSC) regarding the unsafe treatment of
suicidal veterans, along with my records being improperly
accessed.
On January 12 and 13, 2015, ABC 15 ran stories regarding my
OSC complaints. On the 13, hospital director Glen Grippen held
a meeting with leadership of the Phoenix VA, to include Chief
of Staff Dr. Darren Deering and VA Legal Counsel Shelley Cutts.
Grippen proposed to terminate me for being on TV. Cutts advised
Grippen that it was illegal to remove me because of the
Whistleblower Protection Act. But then Cutts stated, ``Brandon
could possibly be removed for unrelated misconduct.'' The
problem with her statement is I had an exceptional employment
record.
On January 20, my section chief, Dr. Carlos Carrera,
questioned my mental health. Later that day, I had a social
worker accuse me of threatening him. It was simply not true.
On the 21st, Director Grippen met with me to share my OSC
concerns. The director made an eerie comment. He stated,
``Brandon, I just want you to know you are not being terminated
yet.'' He actually used the word ``yet.'' He admitted to saying
this in his Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
testimony.
On the 23rd, Social Work Chief David Jacobson held a
meeting for 15 to 20 employees. An employee made an audio
recording. An ER social worker stated ``five suicidal vets had
walked out of the hospital during the past week,'' and Jacobson
responded, ``We have been really lucky that nothing bad has
happened yet. It was sheer luck.'' This proved suicidal vets
were walking out of the hospital.
On February 2, I was placed on administrative leave for
allegedly threatening other employees. The letter stated I
could receive care as a vet, but I had to check in and out with
the VA police. I immediately called the OSC to begin a
retaliation investigation.
On the 3rd, Grippen shut down my highly successful 52-week
Motivation for Change treatment program. Seventy-one high-risk
veterans no longer had long-term substance use disorder
treatment. Those who are still alive still do not.
On the 4th, employee Jared Kinnaman came forward to the OSC
stating suicidal veterans were being mishandled.
On the 26th, I attended a fact-finding regarding my
placement on admin leave. I was personally escorted by VA
police Lieutenant Robert Mueller. Lieutenant Mueller made me
walk in front of him through the main hospital like I was a
criminal. I was told by the fact finders after the meeting I
would be cleared of any wrongdoing.
On March 6, employee Lisa Tadano came forward to the OSC
claiming suicidal veterans were being watched by janitors and
volunteers. She learned employee Penny Miller had also accessed
her treatment records without reason.
On the 12th, I met with Secretary Robert McDonald when
President Obama came to Phoenix. I told the Secretary it was
highly questionable that I can have a one-on-one meeting with
the most powerful man in the VA, yet if I go to the Phoenix VA
for medical care, I have to check in and out with the VA
police.
On the 16th, the Veterans Benefits Administrator (VBA) said
my service-connected injuries had improved and proposed to
reduce my disability benefits by over $300 per month. The
timing was highly suspect.
On the 19th, I received a letter from Grippen stating I was
no longer required to have a police escort. To date, I have
never received a letter clearing me of wrongdoing.
On April 9, I had a second sensitive patient access report
(SPAR) pulled and learned two additional coworkers had
improperly entered my medical records.
On the 14th, I was walking through the VA hospital on my
way to a 12-step meeting with friend and former Navy SEAL Carl
Higbee. We were confronted by Grippen. I told Grippen what I
was doing and went to attend the meeting that was open to the
public.
Six days later, on April 20, I received a ``gag order''
from Grippen forbidding me from speaking to any other Phoenix
VA employees but saying I could get medical care as a vet. How
does a veteran get medical care without being allowed to speak
to a VA employee?
By the 24th, over a dozen media outlets contacted the
hospital forcing Grippen to amend the letter acknowledging my
right to free speech.
On August 12, I pulled a third SPAR report and learned
another administrative officer named Troy Briggs has accessed
my records. I have not received care since January 2015 at the
Phoenix VA when I got these eyeglasses, yet this employee was
in my records on April 20, the same day Director Grippen placed
a gag order on me. Mr. Briggs is even cc'd to the gag order
letter. Why would he be in my record on this same date?
In closing, it is a privilege to work for the VA, not a
right. All employees, including directors, must be held
accountable. Today I am calling on the Committee to ask for a
Department of Justice (DOJ) investigation into the improper
accessing of my HIPAA-protected veteran treatment records as
retaliatory acts and as a criminal act. I am also asking the
Committee to call for an investigation into Grippen's
retaliation against me, including placing me on admin leave on
baseless grounds, and for his attempting to manufacture grounds
for my removal. His actions violated Federal whistleblower law.
I find it sad that the only time Congress can get an honest
answer from the VA is when whistleblowers are asked to testify.
There is something deeply disturbing about that fact.
Thank you for the allotted time today.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Coleman.
Our next witness is Joseph Colon. Mr. Colon is a Navy
veteran and a credentialing support analyst at the VA Caribbean
Healthcare System in San Juan, Puerto Rico. Mr. Colon raised
concerns about unfair hiring practices, improper veteran care,
and misconduct by upper management. Mr. Colon.
TESTIMONY OF JOSEPH COLON,\1\ CREDENTIALING PROGRAM SUPPORT, VA
CARIBBEAN HEALTHCARE SYSTEM, SAN JUAN, PUERTO RICO
Mr. Colon. Good morning, Members of Congress. My name is
Joseph Colon. I am a credentialing program support at the VA
Caribbean Healthcare System in San Juan, Puerto Rico. I filed
for whistleblower protection in August 2014, and my case
settled in July 2015. Despite the above, retaliation against me
and others similarly situated continues at that facility.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Colon appears in the Appendix on
page 78.
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Before I provide my account of the events that have taken
place with me, I would like to thank Senator Ron Johnson,
Ranking Member Thomas Carper, and the Committee for their
leadership and for allowing me the opportunity to be a part of
the hearing and to explain what happens to a whistleblower that
comes forward.
The whistleblowers in Puerto Rico's facility really need
the help from this Committee to ensure that whistleblower
retaliation does not keep on happening at our facility and that
the supervisors are held accountable. Unfortunately, our
resident commissioner, Pedro Pierluisi, does not even issue one
statement against whistleblower retaliation that occurs very
often at this facility. Without proper oversight from our
representative in Congress, it makes it even more difficult for
us whistleblowers in Puerto Rico.
There were numerous issues that I reported: a physician who
killed a veteran while doing an authorized procedure that his
spouse needed for her residency program; Mr. DeWayne Hamlin's
arrest for drunk driving and having a controlled substance
without a prescription; director absences; veterans mental
health issues; chief of staff salary concerns; a physician that
gave an improper dosage to a Veteran ordered the veteran's
medical record be documented with incorrect information;
physicians practicing with expired medical licenses and without
clinical privileges; Legionella found in the physical therapy
pool; community living center director, who was the direct
supervisor of the area that was not helping elderly veterans
with bathing, using the bathroom, feeding, and drinking, was
promoted to associate chief of staff of geriatrics and extended
care; registered sexual offender that provides disciplinary
recommendations to management; unfair hiring practices, and
limiting opportunities for veterans from outside the facility
to apply for jobs; my immediate supervisor's fraud with the
travel voucher program; the retaliation that I experienced from
top levels of management at the VA in San Juan; investigated
four different times for the same allegations; I was illegally
placed on a permanent work detail on two different occasions;
issued a proposed removal on two different occasions; received
a 3-day suspension; no performance appraisal issued to me for
the 20 months when I was on detail; non-selections when I
applied for other positions in the hospital.
The retaliation and harassment that I have experienced
after the Office of Special Counsel settled my retaliation
claim include: moved the Credentialing and Privileging
Department from the fifth floor of executive suite to an office
area with no windows on the third floor; the afternoon prior to
me returning to my position, the Human Resources Manager Mr.
Omar Ahmed issued an email warning his personnel that share the
same lounge with me to not discuss any Human Resources business
in the lounge area; no electronic email access for over 2
weeks; no work assignments for 3 weeks; expired my high blood
pressure refill medication without notifying me; not selected
for the clinical administrative specialist position, even
though I was the most experienced member of the Department. The
two panel members that interviewed me are the same members that
I reported wrongdoing about.
Unfortunately, at the VA Caribbean Healthcare facility in
San Juan, this is not the only incident of retaliation that has
occurred under Mr. DeWayne Hamlin's and Miss Nayda Ramirez's
and Dr. Antonio Sanchez's leadership. These three individuals
are directly responsible for all cases mentioned in my
statement.
Miss Rosayma Lopez, was issued a termination letter because
she would not fabricate anything against me in her fact-
finding.
Dr. Ivan Torres reported numerous concerns with the
compensation and pension physicians who were not complying with
the compressed time work schedule. Both cases are right now
with the Office of Special Counsel.
Management here in San Juan, Puerto Rico, actually reward
people that actually help them build a case to fire a
whistleblower.
Miss Maritere Acevedo, who conducted the fact-finding
against me, was rewarded as the quality management director,
even though she stated in my fact-finding, ``In terms of Mr.
Colon going over the chain of command and gathering
information, this is seen as a pattern that does have an impact
on the efficiency and effectiveness of his unit.'' She also
believes there is a potential ethical issue for becoming a
witness in a discriminatory case.
Mr. Victor Sanchez was rewarded with a promotion as medical
administrative supervisor in Mayaguez even though he sanitized
and deleted a portion of the document that was used against me
and he could not provide the original document when the
investigator asked for it.
As you can see, in Puerto Rico, both these people were
rewarded with better positions, but Miss Rosayma Lopez was
issued a termination letter. The difference is because Miss
Rosayma Lopez was ethical and failed to do what management
wanted her to do. There is no better example that shows
management's unethical behavior and what levels they will go to
fire the whistleblower. The Secretary of the Veterans Affairs
must do the correct thing and place Mr. DeWayne Hamlin, Miss
Nayda Ramirez, and Dr. Antonio Sanchez on detail until an
accurate investigation is completed regarding their conduct and
their behavior toward those who dare to bring into the light
abuse and mismanagement.
If the Secretary of the Veterans Affairs fails to do so, he
actually is accepting that a whole executive team can
participate in retaliation and he actually supports it. How
many veterans are being hurt because employees live in fear of
retaliation? How can you run a successful organization without
accountability?
It is easy to retaliate against someone when the supervisor
does not have to pay for attorney fees, is not held
accountable, and the American taxpayers foot the bill when
compensatory damages are being paid.
I truly believe that since the Secretary of Veterans
Affairs has failed to impose discipline to his employees,
Congress should give that authority to the Office of Special
Counsel to discipline employees who are found to have
retaliated against a whistleblower. It is time to really
protect future whistleblowers and implement a zero tolerance
policy in regards to whistleblower retaliation.
Thank you again for this opportunity. I welcome your
questions on the issues I have noted or any items I have
submitted to the Committee.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Colon.
Our final witness on this panel is Shea Wilkes. Mr. Wilkes
is an Army veteran and a licensed clinical social worker at the
Overton Brooks VA Medical Center in Shreveport, Louisiana. Mr.
Wilkes raised concerns about secret wait lists at his facility
He is also the co-founder of the VA Truth Tellers, a group of
VA employees nationwide who have suffered hardships since
reporting wrongdoing within the VA. Mr. Wilkes.
TESTIMONY OF SHEA WILKES,\1\ LICENSED CLINICAL SOCIAL WORKER,
OVERTON BROOKS VA MEDICAL CENTER, SHREVEPORT, LOUISIANA
Mr. Wilkes. Ladies, gentlemen, fellow Americans, I
appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today in our great
Nation's capital, a capital that symbolizes courage and a free
way of life that so many have stood tall, strong, and given
their life to protect.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Wilkes appears in the Appendix on
page 82
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Your continued concern for the state of medical care being
provided to our Nation's veterans is greatly appreciated. I
thank everyone in this room for their continued efforts to
right the faltering Department of Veterans Affairs.
Throughout history, the success and failures of countries
across the world have often balanced upon how that country has
cared for those who have borne the battle. I believe all of us
here today can agree a country that does not care for its
veterans can quickly become a rudderless ship destined for
disaster, for a country that will not live up to its promises
made to its veterans willing to give everything to protect a
way of life will quickly forget promises to its people.
In our great Nation, there is an overwhelming support for
our military and our veterans. From Bunker Hill to Helmand
Province, Afghanistan, our Nation's veterans have faced what
seemed to be insurmountable odds only to succeed time and time
again in protecting a way of life preserved in a sacred
document that resides a short distance from where we sit this
very day.
For some time, we the people have entrusted the caring of
our Nation's veterans to the Department of Veterans Affairs.
Unfortunately, reality here today is somehow this trust is
being strained by what has become a bloated, unaccountable
bureaucracy whose leadership is incompetent, often more
concerned with its public image, and perpetrating its own
existence than it is with providing first-rate medical care to
our Nation's veterans, which they have earned and deserve.
I am here today to fight for accountability, leadership,
and competency in our VA health care system. I am here for
those Truth Tellers who have shown integrity, despite knowing
for certain that despicable and hateful retaliation will be
imposed for coming forward. I am here for my brothers and
sisters at arms, both past and present, and future, to assure
our Nation does not forget where it comes from, who is
protecting it today, and who is going to assure it is protected
forever: veterans.
What has happened to Shea Wilkes will not even be a
footnote in history. However, I hope my voice will be heard by
our leaders and the American people. I hope that you will hear
VA Truth Tellers' voices within my voice and will unveil the
truth hidden inside the walls and swept under the rugs of the
VA system.
I hope that our Truth Teller voices and your action will
become a resounding chorus demanding and forcing change for our
heroes.
I was asked to tell you my story, but, no, I am not here
for myself. If I were, my story would be of little interest. I
can tell you that my story is not compelling because it has
happened to Shea Wilkes; rather, it is compelling because it is
a mirror image of how VA whistleblowers across this country
have been treated.
My situation, like other whistleblowers across this Nation,
is a product of a contagious disease within the very fabric of
the VA system itself. Whistleblowers are shunned, isolated,
defamed, and accused of trying to destroy the VA. Those of us
Truth Tellers that are also veterans have our VA personal
medical records accessed and information in those records used
in attempts to discredit us. We are placed in positions away
from others, oftentimes below our ability levels. We are never
given the same opportunities we once had.
Truth Tellers are labeled problem children, troublemakers,
crazy, and much more. We are put under criminal investigations
for nonsense in an effort to scare and intimidate. Once a Truth
Teller comes forward, they are alone, left gasping for air, and
desperately trying to protect themselves from the good old boys
of VA that have them in their cross hairs.
I could continue, but we know the VA is still hiding issues
and not being truthful. We know VA OIG has not been independent
but yet working with the VA to damage control, whitewash, and
intimidate Truth Tellers and potential whistleblowers. The VA
OIG investigations have not been after the truth as they would
attempt to make us believe. VA OIG investigations have been
half-assed and shoddy. We could line whistleblowers up from
around this country out this door and around this building and
ask about the VA OIG. The overwhelming majority would answer:
``The VA OIG is a joke.''
No longer are Truth Tellers allowing the VA OIG to dictate,
intimidate, bully, and isolate, and they cannot stand it. VA
Truth Tellers have the inside knowledge of how deeply embedded
corruption is in the VA system, and we are going to continue to
share it. VA Truth Tellers across the Nation are joining to
have one voice, and it has made the knees of the VA giant
shake.
In closing, I say to those in this room, I say today the VA
deception, deceit, and lies have gone on long enough. I speak
to the leaders of Congress, OSC, new OIG leadership, VA Truth
Tellers, potential whistleblowers, American taxpayers, and
veterans, we must draw a line in the sand today and say, ``No
more.'' No more will we allow VA leaders to take aim at
whistleblowers brave enough to expose VA wrongdoings. No more
will we allow the VA wasteful and fraudulent spending of
American tax dollars. No more will we allow the VA to provide
those that have borne the battle anything but the best care in
this world. And no more will we allow the VA to chip away at
the very foundation this country has stood on for generations,
that our veterans have drawn a weapon to protect.
The time has come for each of us in this room to stand
together--E Pluribus Unum--and to tell the VA, ``No more.''
Thank you for your time. May God bless each of you and may
God bless the United States of America.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Wilkes, and thank you all
for your powerful testimony.
I will start with you, Mr. Wilkes. In reading your
testimony, the written testimony, I was struck by the criminal
investigation, the intimidation. Can you just talk to me a
little bit about exactly what you did? My understanding is you
took--you understood the wait list, that veterans were waiting
and obviously not getting the care they deserved. But you
presented that to the Office of Inspector General, which would
have been the proper venue. And then later on you were really
the target of a criminal investigation. Is that true?
Mr. Wilkes. Yes, sir. Let me state this: Wait lists are
just one tool that was being used for manipulation of
scheduling and numbers, and, I brought forward--I knew there
were wait lists. I was actually, in mental health leadership,
had done stuff for the directors, and I had heard about it in
meetings, and I just kind of followed up with it and just kept
seeing it. And probably about 10 months before hand, in June
2013, 10 months before Phoenix came out, I reported it to the
Inspector General (IG) and I never heard from it. Basically I
was systematically removed from any leadership over time.
Finally, when Phoenix came out, I said, ``You know what?
This is my shot. This is another shot that I may get.'' And I
did report that. After encouragement----
Chairman Johnson. But, again, reported it to the Office of
Inspector General.
Mr. Wilkes. Yes, sir, again, and I reported it and went to
the media. And when they came in finally about a month and a
half after all this, they called, they said they wanted to meet
with me. I said yes. They asked, ``Hey, you want to come off
campus and meet?'' And I said, ``I am not bringing this list
off campus.'' I said no. And I said, ``I have it here secured
and everything. It is on my hard drive.'' And then what
happened after that is they came up, we talked, they secured
the list, and then it went--they said, ``We are going to go
talk to people,'' which they ended up talking to basically
those that, if there was a list, would have something to lose.
Then we found out later about some of the questions. They
came back. I was, like, oh, this does not make any sense. So at
that time, I contacted my lawyer, and we were told, yes, there
was an issue with how I got the list and of that such. And
basically after that, they never really asked anything about
that.
Chairman Johnson. So, again, you were expecting the Office
of Inspector General to come in and be shocked at this wait
list. But instead what you found is the Office of Inspector
General was basically coming in and kind of laying the
groundwork for a potential criminal investigation against you
for revealing the wait list.
Mr. Wilkes. Right. My opinion----
Chairman Johnson. So it is basically retaliation by the
Office of Inspector General against you.
Mr. Wilkes. Right. My opinion is they came in to basically
damage control and scare the heck out of me and anybody else
that knew about it and potentially--there are witnesses that
know that it was there. There are witnesses that know they were
going in and out of scheduling and doing that. But when they
did that, everybody shut down. Stories changed.
Chairman Johnson. So, obviously, one form of retaliation is
intimidation.
Mr. Wilkes. Yes, sir.
Chairman Johnson. To prevent you from and, by the way,
prevent anybody else from coming forward, when you say damage
control.
Mr. Wilkes. Yes.
Chairman Johnson. Mr. Kirkpatrick, again, thank you for
your powerful testimony. Were you aware, as you have gone
through the records now and you have seen some of these things,
were you aware--was your brother, Chris, ever given any warning
before he was called in to that one meeting and fired?
Mr. Kirkpatrick. Not to my knowledge, no. I think he kind
of felt that that was a potential outcome, but I think he was
surprised when he saw it that day. And I believe he contacted
Lin Ellinghuysen right away saying he was concerned about this,
and then she mentioned that, well, we should prepare for the
worst, that it might be, your termination.
Chairman Johnson. And the termination was predicated, the
rationale was he missed a few days or abused some free time. I
mean, that is basically what the termination was about?
Mr. Kirkpatrick. Essentially, yes. One of the allegations
was that he brought his dog into work one day, which they did
not deny that he had permission to do so; but that when he
stepped away, the dog, made a mess and somebody else had to
clean it up. Other things they pointed out were that he was
taking a lot of vacation time. I wanted to include that in my
statement but for time reasons I did not, but his response was
that for his own well-being he had to take additional days off
because he did not have the support or anybody to talk to, and
he was being overloaded. He was a graduate psychologist, and
from what I can tell, I mean, he had a full caseload, very
complex cases, and----
Chairman Johnson. I am going to give you an opportunity
right now to kind of lay out your recommendations based on
that, but I just want to quickly drill down because I think it
is tragic, quite honestly. It is to me just unbelievable. I
come from the private sector. You always hear ``at-will
employment.'' It is really not so. I mean, certainly as a
private sector company, you have to go through a series of
steps--warnings, counseling, talking to
people--before you would even consider terminating someone just
out of basic humanity, but also from a legal standpoint. And
yet your brother was basically called into an office,
terminated for what I would consider the flimsiest of reasons--
and, again, from my standpoint, as a result it is obvious he
was being retaliated against because he was raising the issue
of drug overprescription resulting in real harm to our
veterans.
But in your testimony, you have a list of recommendations.
Again, I think it is powerful testimony.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. I do. Thank you.
Chairman Johnson. I want everybody to read it, about the
pressures that those individuals like your brother who are
trying to help our veterans deal with some very difficult
psychological and mental issues and addiction issues, the
pressures they are under and how there is just not much help
for them.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. Thank you. I appreciate the time.
Chairman Johnson. Please, talk a little bit about that and
lay out those recommendations.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. Well, we have quite a few here. I will
just read through them. And let it be known, too, that I
consulted with Lin Ellinghuysen again and to kind of see what
she thought would also be the most effective recommendations.
No. 1, we encourage--I am sorry. We urge Congress to
mandate the development of a comprehensive support system for
VA medical and mental health care professionals that provide
needed consultation services with trained professionals as part
of their employment and not to be seen as private treatment.
These support services and consultations must maintain strict
confidentiality. Currently, all that is offered at the Tomah VA
are one or two sessions with a VA-provided counselor; after
that, employees are left to manage these very intense job
duties on their own without time to debrief, refresh, or
regroup. Particularly, psychotherapy with veterans is difficult
and draining and can take a great deal out of a clinician
emotionally and physically.
No. 2, if not licensed when hired, graduate psychologists
are required to be licensed within 2 years. They are not given
adequate time to prepare for the exam. Mentors could ensure
that there is appropriate patient care assignments and time set
aside for study. Note: Prep for exam requires 20 hours a week
of study time for 3 to 6 months. And that recommendation
actually came from somebody who has completed it.
As a graduate psychologist, Chris was expected to counsel
veterans with complex needs, facilitate group therapy,
participate in care planning team meetings, along with all of
the required reporting and documentation.
No. 3, develop Veterans Health Administration (VHA)
protocols for investigation of suicides of employees and
recently terminated employees. The Tomah VA management and
police did not investigate my brother Chris' death.
No. 4, develop VHA protocols for addressing threats
patients make against staff.
No. 5, we also request that lawmakers investigate the
pervasive use of extended temporary appointments within the VA
health care workforce and the abusive use of terminations and
other personnel actions against temporary and probationary
employees and mandate additional protections, both statutory
and administrative, for these most vulnerable employees who pay
the heaviest price when they question the way of doing things.
No. 6, we urge Congress to take steps to ensure greater
accountability for VA front-line managers, mid-level managers,
and upper management who engage in retaliation against
whistleblowers and other front-line employees who speak up for
veterans' needs.
Seven, additionally, we urge Congress to review the current
reporting structure for the chief of police at VA medical
centers. Currently, they report to the medical center director
rather than a separate entity that can address mismanagement or
staff concerns without interference, such as the alleged
illegal drug activity at Tomah.
Eight, we are thankful the Senators and Congressmen are
addressing and putting into place checks and balances that will
ensure the safe ordering of opioids as well as the development
of guidelines for the safe combining of opioids with other
addictive drugs in an earnest effort to keep veterans safe.
And I would like to point out, in addition to that, that
Jason Simcakoski, who died last year from mixed drug toxicity,
he died from essentially the same thing that my brother was
addressing, and it is just beyond tragic.
Last, but immensely important to our family, is our
request--and this is a personal one--that Chris' Official
Personnel File and all information be sent to myself, Sean
Kirkpatrick. It is also requested that any and all Tomah VA
supervisory notes, reports of contacts, et cetera, related to
Christopher Kirkpatrick be sent to myself, Sean Kirkpatrick.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Kirkpatrick.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. Thank you.
Chairman Johnson. Senator Baldwin.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BALDWIN
Senator Baldwin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank
you and the Ranking Member, Senator Carper, for holding this
hearing, and I especially want to thank the witnesses for their
powerful testimony that will, I think, guide us in our future
actions.
As we have certainly seen in Tomah, Wisconsin, and, indeed,
the rest of the Nation, the role of whistleblowers is
critical--in fact, heroic--in running an effective
organization. And agencies need to be much more open to
accepting constructive criticism in order to improve an agency
such as the VA, which has the tremendously important mission of
taking care of our Nation's veterans.
Mr. Kirkpatrick, I want to thank you so much for your
attendance here today and also for mentioning Ryan Honl in your
testimony.
I also want to appreciate the fact that in your written
testimony you shared the specific recommendations that you just
outlined for the Committee that are really key. One that I
would like to have you speak to a little bit more is the issue
you raise about temporary or probationary workers.
As we saw in Tomah with many whistleblowers it should not
matter if an employee has been employed for 10 days, 10 months,
or 10 years in terms of our treatment of them if they step
forward to help veterans. I know this is a factor you have
become aware of. We are working on legislation to address this
issue. I very much appreciate your family's input but if you
could speak more to the position that temporary or probationary
workers are in when they come forward as whistleblowers.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. Thank you, Senator Baldwin. I find it
curious that, probationary and temporary employees--and I am
really just drawing from my brother's experience, but the
amount of responsibility that they are given and especially
considering that they are lacking the support that I mentioned
as well, that they can just be tossed aside really without any
sort of third-party review, any sort of accountability. I mean,
it is outrageous.
In Chris' case, as Chairman Johnson pointed out, I think
any independent person who would have looked at the reasons why
they were terminating him would have come to the same
conclusion, that these were ridiculous reasons and that it was
clearly a case of retaliation. He was not afforded that
protection because of his probationary status, and something, I
think, needs to change with that.
I think if we are going to--I mean, really, as, it was
pointed out before, serving veterans is a privilege, and if we
are going to put people in that position, a privileged position
like that, we should provide them with the protections that
they deserve, especially considering, a lot of these people, my
brother included, he was not in the military, yet he was
hearing firsthand accounts, from people with PTSD and hearing
very hard things to hear for somebody, especially as a
graduate.
I think when you also add into the fact that to take that
extra step and to point out what you see is wrongdoing and
bring that to the attention of people, knowing that you do not
have those protections, it takes a little more guts, I think.
But that should absolutely be changed, and I do not see why
anybody would disagree with that.
Senator Baldwin. Thank you.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. Thank you.
Senator Baldwin. I want to note the repeated testimony we
have heard today and on previous occasions about inappropriate
access to whistleblowing employees medical records. We have
heard such stories also at the Tomah facility regarding other
whistleblowers who have stepped forward.
I would like to ask Mr. Coleman and Mr. Wilkes whether
there is an information technology fix in VA's recordkeeping
systems that would make it more difficult for an employee to
access a fellow employee's medical records. What action needs
to be taken with regard to this pervasive problem?
Mr. Coleman. I think, Senator, one of the things that can
be done is to have maybe a two-party or two-employee system
where, if there is a sensitive record like mine, because I am a
Marine Corps veteran, that if an employee goes to get in the
record, that another employee or a supervisor has to approve it
for that to happen. The reason that would be important is this
has happened four times to me, and when it has happened, I
mean, I have heard excuses such as it was an innocent mistake--
this is from the
VA--or they were trying to get into a veteran's record with a
similar name, and ``I do not recall being in the record.''
Those were excuses that were actually given. And I do not know
if any of the Senators have ever had a young puppy dog, but
that first day when you leave a puppy dog in your apartment or
your house and you go off to work and you come home and it has
chewed up your shoes or it is wet on your floor, and you look
at that puppy dog, and that puppy dog cowers like it has done
something wrong, that is the same look that I got from Phoenix
VA administrators after they gave me those excuses. They sat
there quiet, all balled up, hoping that I would just stop
talking about it and it would go away. It reminded me so much
of a puppy I had one time, and that is what has to stop, ma'am.
Mr. Wilkes. I have been fortunate to talk to 50-plus
whistleblowers across the country, and 100 percent of those
that are veterans have had their records accessed--100 percent,
every single one of them. And, what can we do? There is no
accountability. I was under investigation for a year, for
having a list that was not supposed to exist, for possible
privacy violations, but yet these people went into our records,
and they face nothing. They do nothing.
The whole thing with accountability, somewhere along the
line there has to be accountability. And if you do it, there
has to
be--you have to say, ``Hey,'' and show those others that they
are going to do something to them. There are ways that they
have in place to say, hey, there is a big thing that pops up,
this person is also an employee, so-and-so accessed--it tells
them before they even go in there. I mean, 100 percent of
whistleblowers/veterans that I have talked to have had their
records accessed by people.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Senator Baldwin. Senator
Tester.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR TESTER
Senator Tester. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to
thank Ranking Member Carper also for holding this hearing, and
I want to thank you all for your testimony. I very much
appreciate it.
I just want to follow-up on Senator Baldwin's question with
either you, Mr. Wilkes, or you, Mr. Coleman, and that is, why--
and maybe I am just not seeing it. Why are they accessing your
records? What are they doing?
Mr. Coleman. What they do, Senator, is they access our
records. Some of us have had mental health treatment after
coming home from our time in the service. Really, it is none of
their business to be in there. However, as Shea can tell you
further about, what they do is they go into our records, and
such as in my case, on January 20, when everything was kind of
hitting the fan, I was called into a meeting with my section
chief, who happens to be a psychiatrist, Dr. Carlos Carrera,
and he asked me, he goes, ``I just want to find out about your
mental health,'' and he started questioning me about my mental
health. And I said it was highly suspect that he waited until
after I was a whistleblower to ask me about my mental health.
However, he never came to me after each of the six veterans
committed suicide, he never once asked me about my mental
health. So the timing is always highly suspect with these
people.
Senator Tester. But it is accessed to see if you have had
mental health treatment? That is what they are doing.
Mr. Coleman. I do not know, sir. I do not know exactly what
they are getting at with that. I just know that they are
violating HIPAA in doing it. But I know that they do use it
against us, such as they have done with me.
Senator Tester. By the way, I think your recommendation is
well founded. I think it is a good recommendation.
Mr. Coleman. I think it is a simple one.
Senator Tester. Yes. Mr. Wilkes, would you----
Mr. Wilkes. In my case, yes, I mean, I was brought in by my
boss and sat down with him one on one, and he flat out asked
me, ``Have you seen this mental health provider?'' And I had. I
mean, I am an Afghanistan veteran, and, I had come back and I
was seeing those, and I had quit sometime before, before I even
came back to work at the VA from the vet center. And he
basically told me, he said, ``Well, some of your colleagues are
questioning your stability.''
Senator Tester. And this was after you were a whistleblower
they did that?
Mr. Wilkes. This was after I had turned it in June 2013,
yes. ``They question your stability and are saying you are
unfit to lead.''
Senator Tester. I got you. How long did you work for the VA
before all this came down? I just want to try to get a timeline
here.
Mr. Wilkes. 2007.
Senator Tester. 2007 you started, and you put forth some
problems at what point in time?
Mr. Wilkes. I had brought forth problems starting in 2012.
Senator Tester. Got you. And they never talked about your
mental health until after you brought forth problems.
Mr. Wilkes. Until I reported it to the IG.
Senator Tester. Cool. Not cool, but thank you.
Mr. Kirkpatrick, I just want to say thank you for your
recommendations. Oftentimes we get a lot of panelists in here,
and to be proactive and talk about what you see as potential
solutions is very helpful. So I want to just thank you for
that.
And this is for any one of you, Coleman, Colon, or Wilkes.
What is the formal feedback mechanism for VA employees who want
to bring forth a grievance to the attention of management? Is
there a formal feedback mechanism? Go ahead, Shea, if you want.
Mr. Wilkes. There is in place--I mean, they always want you
to keep it and follow your chain of command, and they always
suggest that you do that.
Senator Tester. Yes.
Mr. Wilkes. But, unfortunately, that is not working. And,
unfortunately, when you report to the IG, if you take that
step, the IG only takes a certain number of cases, and a lot of
times they will send the report back to the Veterans Integrated
Service Network (VISN), which goes back to the director, and
then you are in trouble.
Senator Tester. Right. So there is a mechanism. Are you
told about the mechanism for grievances and are you told about
whistleblower rights in any sort of training that the VA offers
up?
Mr. Wilkes. We do have a lot of Talent Management System
(TMS) trainings, which is our online training system that we go
through, and you do have classes on those. You do every year.
Senator Tester. And it does cover whistleblower, it does
cover how you report a grievance and all that? I am just
curious.
Mr. Wilkes. It does cover whistleblower. I am not sure
about the union grievance process.
Senator Tester. OK.
Mr. Coleman. Can I add to that, Senator?
Senator Tester. Absolutely.
Mr. Coleman. The problem between our front-line supervisors
and ourselves is that when all this happened with me, I told my
front-line supervisor, because, once again, we are veterans, I
believe in my chain of command.
Senator Tester. Right.
Mr. Coleman. It is just grilled into you. And when I came
forward to my front-line supervisor, the first thing out of her
mouth when I said I was coming forward regarding suicidal vets,
she goes, ``That is how people get fired.''
Senator Tester. Oh, my God.
Mr. Coleman. Instead of suicidal veterans walking out of
our hospital that everyone knew and we needed to fix it.
The next time, I was walking through the hospital on my way
to a meeting with the director when one of the assistant social
work chiefs said, ``Do not rock the boat,'' as I walked by him.
This is the kind of comments and wrongdoing that we are getting
in our own hospitals by our front-line people that we are told
to come through. That is where the disconnect is at, and that
is the cancer that we have to fix within each of these
facilities.
Senator Tester. I agree. It makes me wonder what kind of
training--other than professional training, what kind of
training the VA does for your front-line supervisors.
Look, mental health is a huge issue. You guys know that. I
think every one of you are in that field, right? And you have
come out of the military. You understand the impacts that are
going on with the wars in the Middle East, how it is a
signature injury coming out. But denial is not a solution, and
so my time is up, but I just want to express my appreciation
for you folks coming forward and bringing forth problems and
solutions to those problems. I very much appreciate that. Thank
you.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Senator Tester. Senator Ernst.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ERNST
Senator Ernst. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you,
gentlemen, so much for being here today.
I will state again--I have said this many times in the
short 8 to 9 months that I have been here--that this is one of
my priorities, is working with veterans and mental health
issues. The first bill I proposed was working with veterans
that have mental health issues and allowing them greater
access. And so I do want to thank you. My condolences on the
loss of your brother, Sean. It is very sad.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. Thank you.
Senator Ernst. This is an issue I am extremely passionate
about, and I think today's hearing just is reemphasizing to me
that we have a corrupt and broken VA system. And when I hear
that supervisors, other workers are more concerned about their
own jobs than they are about the veterans, we have an issue. We
have an issue, folks, that needs to be fixed. And I do not know
how many hearings we are going to have until we get to actually
addressing the situation. I hear a lot of talk, but we need to
figure this out. So, again, I am very passionate about this
issue, and thank you for coming forward, for being brave and
doing the right thing.
When it comes to accessing your health records, I just want
to state, just for everybody, it does not matter what the
reason is. They should not be accessing your health records.
That would be like saying it is OK for us to access anyone here
in the audience, their health records. It is wrong. It should
never, ever occur. Never without your authorization. So I just
want to emphasize that. It does not matter why.
Mr. Coleman, do you believe there are many alternatives for
veterans who feel they are not receiving timely or adequate
mental health care at their local VA?
Mr. Coleman. Thank you for asking me the question, Senator.
I do not know if you read the article by Dave Phillips, the
front page of the New York Times on Sunday. It was about the
plight of Second Battalion, Seventh Marines, who have lost, I
believe it is, 13 members to suicide after their deployments in
Iraq and Afghanistan. The picture I have in front of me is me
and my two Marine Corps sons. Not only am I a former Marine,
but I make Marines. The one on the right is with 2-7 currently.
In that article, they talk about how many of these veterans
came to the VA for health care and were turned away. In one
instance, they had a 22-year-old female social worker or
whatever that told him that the loss of his buddies was like
breaking up with a girlfriend and he just had to get over it.
Well, we do not just get over it. And that is not right. And
that is why I think that these guys and girls, when they come
home from theaters of war, should have the right to go wherever
they feel comfortable. We owe it to them to send them anywhere
they feel comfortable. If it is a counselor in another town
that they want to go to and they are going to open up and talk,
then we should allow them to do that, because once they have
committed suicide, it is too late. There are no second chances.
Senator Ernst. That is right, and you do believe that
opening up for greater access, whether it is at the VA or
whether it is through a community clinic, peer-to-peer
supports, those are ways to address it.
Mr. Coleman. Any of those, ma'am. And the reason I do not
agree with the number of 22 per day--I think that is a number
of suicides--I believe that is a number fed to us in the hopes
that we will all shut up and make it go away. That study was
sponsored by the VA. It did not include the States of
California, Texas, and Illinois. And I do not know about you
folks, but when I was in the Marine Corps, over half of us were
from California and Texas. Some of the guys written about in
that article that have committed suicide are from California.
They also do not count the phenomenon of suicide by cop. I have
had two veterans that were killed by police officers. I am not
saying it is the police officers' fault, but they pretend to
have a weapon or they pull a weapon. The VA does nothing to
report those as suicides. The number of 22 per day is
inaccurate, and we need an independent third party to come in
and do a complete study to show us what the real number is so
we know. Once we get a real number, then we will know what a
big deal it is, and then we can fight it together.
Senator Ernst. And I use that 22-a-day number all the time,
and I think that is appalling enough. But I think you are
probably correct, Mr. Coleman, in your assessment.
And for all of you, in your experience, do you believe the
VA management takes seriously ideas for reform, the
implementation of the IG recommendations, or recommendations
from staff members when they are seeking to improve these
services at the VA? Do you think they take them seriously?
Mr. Wilkes. VA leaders, it is a system of cronyism that has
gone on for so long, and they protect each other. Rules and
regulations oftentimes, they do not care. They use them when it
benefits them. And I will tell you, one of the reasons why is
because nothing ever happens to them. Even if you catch them--I
have put policies in front of folks and said, ``You cannot do
this. This is the policy.'' They still do it. But nothing ever
happens to them.
And, the IG makes recommendations, but they do not have to
hold--I mean----
Senator Ernst. Who is holding their feet to the fire?
Mr. Wilkes. Right.
Senator Ernst. Right. We should be doing that. Thank you,
Mr. Wilkes. Mr. Colon.
Mr. Colon. I have always stated that it is great to have
all these hearings, all new policies, all new recommendations
and solutions. But since this scandal has broken, since
Phoenix, we have not held one person accountable for any
wrongdoing at the VA as far as whistleblower retaliation. The
VA, what they do is the IG--I reported a couple things to the
IG. The IG sent it back to the agency to investigate itself.
And then they give it to the supervisor. The supervisor already
knows who the whistleblower is.
So what I always truly believe is that you cannot police
yourself. It is not the solution that you should do it. Like I
said, the key component that everything is failing to make the
VA better and to do service for our veterans is start holding
people accountable.
Senator Ernst. Very good. Well, I know my time is up. Do
you have any other comments? Please.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. If I may, with regards to that, I know
that the people who seem to have been responsible for
retaliating against my brother, as far as I am aware, are still
employed at the VA. I do not know if that is a pending
investigation, but that is unacceptable.
Senator Ernst. It is unacceptable.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. And that is Dr. David Houlihan. And the
human resources representative David DeChant.
Senator Ernst. Thank you. Again, my condolences.
Mr. Coleman, do you have any closing thoughts, very
quickly?
Mr. Coleman. Ma'am, really quickly, I was just going to say
the retaliation investigations, I was removed on hearsay. I was
on paid administrative leave for 206 days until I was ordered
back into the same retaliatory environment on August 17, which
I refused to go until it is safe. So they are able to remove me
on hearsay; whereas, we have a sworn affidavit from the H.R.
chief showing that the director held this meeting to propose to
fire me on January 13, and he is still showing up to work every
day. I love my job helping vets get clean and sober. I would do
it for free. And they removed me from that or took me out of
that position to investigate hearsay, which was proven untrue
in late February.
Senator Ernst. Thank you again, gentlemen.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Senator.
Let me assure everybody, Senator Ernst, all the witnesses,
everybody in the audience, there is a process to solving a
problem, and this is the first step. We have to properly define
it. We have to lay these things out. We have to highlight these
problems. And, of course, the purpose of these hearings we have
been holding--and they have been multiple; we also have our own
investigation under way with Committee staff--is to highlight
the problem, to get agreement. And let us face it, what you are
seeing is bipartisan agreement. These are problems that have to
get fixed. So now that we understand and we have highlighted
it, we will solve it. We will be introducing legislation
certainly under the jurisdiction of this Committee. It will get
reported out, and we will put pressure on the system to get the
things passed. So this is not just talk. This will result in
action, and your testimony is powerful and will result in that
kind of action. And the fact that we have representatives of
the VA here, as they were in Tomah when we held the hearing in
Tomah, and we listened to the powerful testimony of the
survivors of the abuse there, this is what will result in
concrete action to start solving these problems. So, again,
thank you all. Senator Ayotte.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AYOTTE
Senator Ayotte. Thank you, Chairman.
Mr. Kirkpatrick, let me just add my condolences for the
loss of your brother. And let me just say to all of you, in
listening to the exchange you had with Senator Ernst, it is
appalling, frankly, that they can retaliate against you for
really doing the right thing for our country and coming forward
with a focus on making sure that our veterans are served based
on things like hearsay when you have at heart what we want to
have in our VA, the best to serve those who have served us, and
that the people who have done this to you are still merrily on
their jobs. And so I think the accountability piece is the key
to all of this, people who are not focusing on caring for our
veterans and those--we need to reward people like you who want
to serve our veterans. And those people who retaliated against
you should be fired, and I think the problem we have seen with
all that we have heard of the deaths of our veterans and our
veterans who have suffered, there have been very few, if
anyone, held accountable for it.
And so within the organization it seems like the message
being sent is, hey, keep covering everything up because, do not
worry, you will keep your job; if you come forward, you are
going to lose your job--which is the absolute wrong message.
And so, Mr. Chairman, I hope that we make sure that the
legislative tools are there and that we hold people
accountable. So I just want to thank you all for being here and
for your courage in what you have done.
I also wanted to follow-up, just the one thing that many of
us have focused on here is where is the priority. We have not
even had a permanent Inspector General for the VA since
December 2013. It has been 631 days. So if we look at where
priorities are, it seems to me that that is being put low on
the totem pole when we will not even put a permanent individual
in that position. And many of us on this Committee--and I am
going to do it again today--have called on the President,
because he needs to appoint that individual and say this is a
priority for our country.
And I would like to ask all of you, what would you like to
see--rather than the Inspector General, obviously we need to
get someone there with the importance of it, of a permanent
position and back that person up. But once those
recommendations are made and the investigation is done, what
more teeth can we give that process so it is not just turfed
back to the same group of people in the VA where there may be a
good investigation done, but nothing is followed up on it. So I
wanted to get your thoughts on what could we do, ideas you have
for us, to make sure there is more teeth in that process. I
will turn it over to whoever wants to go first.
Mr. Coleman. That is what we are here for today, is to get
some teeth in the process, because like you have all stated, we
continue to talk, and we all know there is a problem. However,
they give their answers, and then we give them 3 more months,
and then some new whistleblowers come back, and we do it all
over again. The time for action is now.
Senator Ayotte. Right.
Mr. Coleman. We are here to help. I think being part of the
process, the nice thing about it is you have some front-line VA
employees here. I was a grunt in the United States Marine
Corps. I know both----
Senator Ayotte. Semper fi.
Mr. Coleman. And I know that with some of these committees
and stuff, such as Secretary Robert McDonald when he did the
MyVA, a lot of these people that he selected--do not get me
wrong. It is great, all these generals and stuff were there.
But I have never seen a general have to use the VA for health
care. I have never seen a general drive 150 miles and have an
appointment canceled when he had to take a day off of work to
feed his family. And no disrespect to the general and his
service at all, but there needs to be more front-line people.
There needs to be more grunts. There needs to be more, enlisted
people involved in the process.
Senator Ayotte. This has to be grassroots. They need to
understand what is happening on the ground.
Mr. Coleman. They do, ma'am. And what the problem is is
they are not listening to us. We are talking, and we are all
about respecting the chain of command. However, when there is a
breakdown in the chain of command, that is where you all come
in, and that is where we need your help. And I agree with you.
We need a permanent IG. It needs to happen. But from the
grassroots part of it, we allow them to have their own
investigations. The VA gets to investigate itself, and there
is--I am sorry to laugh, but it is just--it is a sad joke. We
have an audio tape of them admitting five suicidal vets walked
out of my hospital right after I came forward. Someone should
have said, ``You know what? We messed up.'' They did not. They
destroyed me when I told the truth. It played on CNN with Jake
Tapper. It is just amazing.
So how much more evidence do we need on these people before
we are able to take action? And that is why I hope you all are
upset and I hope you are able to take action, because it is
enough. It is enough today.
Senator Ayotte. I am upset, and I know that many on this
Committee are upset.
Mr. Colon. One of my recommendations in the statement that
I provided, I think once the OSC concludes that a person
retaliated, that they are given the authority to fire that
person, because it seemed that the VA does not want to fire
anybody.
Another thing that Mr. Brandon Coleman had touched on, I
requested through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to see
how many directors, deputy directors, and associate directors
are actually veterans working in the VA. Seventy-six out of 479
are veterans that are in executive positions for the VA, and
that is a problem.
I stopped getting care at the VA for one reason 3 years
ago. Once I came forward, I knew the type of behavior I was
dealing with. So the care that I earned, I stopped going there,
because I know if they access my record or they did anything,
that they would not be held accountable. But I think the IG
should make recommendations. Maybe they should have the
authority if they found somebody that has found misconduct,
that they should be the ones that should issue disciplinary
actions.
One thing I have noticed through all this ordeal is the VA
has failed to hold people accountable. And if that identity
does not want to hold people accountable, then maybe we need to
move forward with the IG and the OSC to start holding people
accountable.
Thank you.
Mr. Wilkes. I will say this: The bottom line is the VA is
going to have to start telling the truth, and somehow we have
to make them do that. Their PR machine puts out more propaganda
than the Republic of North Korea. I am serious about that. And
the problem with that is they are not accepting any
responsibility. It is still going on. The facility I work at
told me there are no--after I came forward, no access to care
problems. But in March of this year, I had a consult put in for
my yearly eye appointment. They scheduled me an appointment in
June. I did not even know about it. They did not offer me any
kind of outside fee-based. I put in another one in May. They
had canceled the one in June because the doctor had quit, moved
it to August. Still nothing. I called down to the clinic, and I
said, ``Are you all not going to offer me fee-based service or
something?'' They said, ``Well, we do not do that. We do not do
the Choice program.'' I said, ``Look, you do not know who I am,
but I am very familiar with this stuff.'' I said, ``That cannot
be right.''
Now, I will give credit. When I called the chief of staff
and the director, they got my appointment, and they said they
were going to correct that. But it is still going on. It is
still going on, and they are still putting out these numbers,
and they say, ``Well, we have 97 percent new leadership.'' Yes,
you moved this director from this hospital to this hospital,
and this one here to here. That is the kind of numbers they put
out. They are very misleading.
Senator Ayotte. Unfortunately, I am hearing those stories
from my constituents also.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. Well, being the only civilian here, I do
not really have a lot of personal insight but since I have
learned a lot about this since my brother died, it seems very
apparent that there is a lack of transparency, accountability,
and in a way, it is like the ugly side of war, almost the
ugliest side, is, the people who return from it broken. They
have put their life on the line. They have paid the highest
cost. And, they should be given everything from this country,
to hear 22 people, and that is probably way underestimated, it
is outrageous.
It seems like the VA behaves as if it is above the law, and
that is unacceptable. Personally, I have to say, this Committee
is really the only entity out there that has taken my brother's
case seriously, and I just want to let you guys know, on behalf
of my family, we are eternally grateful for that. But, I hope
at the same time that there is some power that you guys hold
where, some change can be made here, a culture change or
something. I mean, people's lives are on the line, and it gets
swept under the rug. You do not hear about it, yet every day
people are dying, people are suffering.
So I do not really have anything specific to say, but I
think it is worth pointing out.
Senator Ayotte. What you said today has been heard, and it
has been loudly heard, so we appreciate your being here.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. Thank you.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Senator Ayotte.
The power we hold is the power of your testimony, and I
just want to underscore the point of this is just a basic first
step because we have to have a transparent and independent
Office of Inspector General. That is just a basic first step.
And, again, we do not have a permanent Inspector General. I
wrote a letter to the President on January 22, 2015 asking for
an appointment of a permanent one. Other Committee Members have
asked for the same thing. We will ask again. We need a
permanent Inspector General so we have a transparent and
independent Office of Inspector General. That is just a basic
first step.
So, again, let me call on the President of the United
States to, as quickly as possible, appoint an independent
permanent Inspector General for the Veterans Administration. We
need one, and we need one now. Senator Carper.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER
Senator Carper. I want to thank each of you for being here
today. I want to thank a number of you for wearing the uniform,
and thank you for that service, and thank you for your
continued service to our veterans.
I spent 5 years in a hot war in Southeast Asia as a naval
flight officer (NFO), and after that was over, I came back to
the States and went to college on the GI bill. And the first
week I was back in the States--I had moved from California to
Delaware, and the first week I was back, I got in my Volkswagen
Karmann Ghia with a rebuilt engine, and I drove from Newark,
Delaware, to a VA facility in Elsmere, Delaware, about 12 miles
away. And I had my DD214 with me, and I presented it to the
folks there, and I said, ``I think I am eligible for some
benefits.'' And they checked me out, and they said, ``Yes, you
are. And if you will come back in a week, you are eligible for
some dental benefits. You can have a checkup.'' And a week
later, I came back, met a fellow, a dentist named Jerome
Kayatta, and he took care of my dental needs. And at the end of
my visit, he said to me, he said, ``This is not a very good
health care facility. The morale is not good. The quality of
the service is not good. If I were you, I think I would get my
medical care from someplace else.''
Ironically, 40 years later, he is still my dentist. He
works part-time pro bono in the Delaware correctional system,
providing dental care for folks that are incarcerated, some of
whom are veterans. But I never thought of him as a
whistleblower, but he did more to bring my attention to the
need to make changes at that facility and health care provided
for veterans all over our State. And I worked very hard to make
sure that that was a hospital that we could be proud of, that
they could be something closer to the gold standard than where
they were in, gosh, 1973-74. And we have outpatient clinics--we
only have three counties in Delaware, but we have VA facilities
in all three counties. Do they provide perfect service?
Absolutely right, no, they are not. None of us are perfect. But
if you talk to the veterans in our State who use the VA, those
outpatient clinics and our VA hospital--I call it the ``mother
ship'' in Elsmere. I think for the most part they tell you that
the people who work there are caring, dedicated men and women
and dedicated to ensuring that veterans get the kind of service
that they deserve. I would just sort of start off by saying
that.
The other thing I would say, we have a big air force base
in my State, Dover Air Force Base. We are very proud of the
work they do. They are an airlift base, have C-17s and C-5
aircraft. They travel all over the world every day, delivering
people and cargo wherever it is needed.
They also have a special responsibility, Dover Air Force
Base, because that is the mortuary for our country, and it is
where the remains of our fallen heroes are brought throughout
the year for years to Dover Air Force Base. It is a sacred
mission. A sacred mission.
About a half dozen years ago, we heard from a whistleblower
at the mortuary at the Dover Air Force Base that some of the
practices and procedures there were inappropriate. Things were
happening that should not have happened in the carrying out of
their responsibilities, and it indicated that there was a
problem of leadership, leadership at the military level,
colonel, full-bird, and at the civilian level, top civilian
level leadership. And there were some people who thought, well,
this person is just a malcontent. Well, as it turned out, there
were a couple more people who came and shared their experiences
with us. Our congressional office got involved, the
congressional delegation got involved, and the
Office of Special Counsel got involved. And the Office of
Special Counsel--I think there is somebody here today from the
Office of Special Counsel. They did a very good job.
I once shared this with my colleagues. Two years ago, I was
back--I go to the air force base a lot, but 2 years ago, I was
back for a special visit and tour of the mortuary. I want to
tell you, the hardest work I have ever seen anybody do in the
military is in that mortuary, the people who deal with those
remains and piece body parts back together. I mean, we think we
have had tough jobs. Oh, my God, they have tough jobs, really
tough jobs.
But I went back, and it was interesting. They had a whole
delegation of civilian and military folks there at the entrance
to greet me. And foremost, right at the front of the group was
Mr. Z, one of the original whistleblowers. Surrounding him were
the other whistleblowers. And they were there to welcome me
back. And do you know who was not there? The full-bird colonel.
He was gone. And you know who else was not there? The civilian
leadership of the mortuary. They were gone. And you know who
was still there? The whistleblowers.
So I just want to say sometimes whistleblowers were this
Jerry Kayatta all those years ago in an unofficial role as a
whistleblower, and more recently Dr. Z and the whistleblowers
at the Dover Air Force Base. Sometimes--the parable of the
seeds? Some of the seeds fall on the hard ground and in the
thorns and so forth. Some of the seeds fall on fertile ground.
In those cases, I think in Delaware, better things have
happened.
So I just wanted to share that with you. I have a couple of
questions for you. We will maybe have a second round here, but
I wanted to raise that.
I also wanted to say as much as we appreciate your being
here and look forward to hearing more from you today and I look
forward to asking some questions, I just need to make a note
that I have raised a concern of this at other hearings we have
had for whistleblowers. I just think we need to respect the
independent, objective process that Congress has set up in the
Office of Special Counsel, which I have alluded to before, the
Merit System Protection Board, and elsewhere.
The last thing I want to say is this: Leadership. I wrote a
note down here, and the Chairman looked at it. I wrote down the
word ``leadership.'' The most important element in the success
of any organization I have ever been a part of is leadership.
Whether it was a military unit, a VA facility, here, business,
even a sports team, leadership is always the key. And the guy
that the President nominated to be the leader of the VA a
couple of years ago is a fellow who was a West Point graduate,
a fellow who was a Ranger, and who understands the military
from the inside out. And what needs to happen at VA facilities
across the country is the quality of leadership that I think
exists at the top needs to permeate and come down to the local
level.
And I want to second again what the Chairman has said. We
have sent many letters to this President saying we need more
permanent IGs, Senate-confirmed IGs. And to the
administration's credit, they have done a better job in the
last year or two. And this IG has been vacant for almost 2
years. Way too long. We have had an opportunity to meet just in
the last week or so with the current leadership of the
Inspector General's Office acting person. We need permanent
Senate-confirmed leadership, and I would just urge our
Committee to continue to write to the administration again and
again and again, call and say this is a problem, this needs to
be addressed.
Thank you. I look forward to asking some questions in a few
minutes. Thank you all.
Chairman Johnson. Senator McCain.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MCCAIN
Senator McCain. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to
apologize for not being here for the entire hearing. I am
chairing a hearing in the Armed Services Committee at the
moment. But I wanted to come up here to mention my appreciation
for the witnesses. I thank you. I thank you for your courage. I
thank you for your steadfastness. And this is a very important
hearing, and I want to thank the Chairman for having it.
I also want to give a special thanks to Mr. Coleman. I want
to thank him for his willingness to reach out to my office to
share with me and my staff his experience at Phoenix as a
whistleblower. We all know, Mr. Chairman, that this whole
scandal began to unfold at the Phoenix VA where 50 of our
veterans allegedly died because of a failure to receive--
because of being on some kind of phantom waiting list.
I think, Mr. Chairman, from what I have briefed, that we
are finding out that there is a viewpoint or an environment in
the VA that discourages and even punishes whistleblowers. Is
that your conclusion? Then I would just like to ask the
witnesses one question. What can we do to better protect you
and others who are willing to come forward and willing to risk
their careers in order to get better treatment or even in some
cases treatment for our veterans who, in the view obviously of
the treatment in the past has been less than acceptable? Maybe
I can begin with Mr. Coleman and then you, Mr. Kirkpatrick, and
then the others, Mr. Colon and Mr. Wilkes.
Mr. Coleman. Senator McCain, I just want to thank you and
your staff. They are amazing, and you guys have been with me
from the beginning, from the first letter you wrote to the
Secretary, and I just wanted to thank you for that in person.
The word that comes to mind when you asked the question is
``accountability.'' When there is wrongdoing committed, it does
not matter if the VA employee is a janitor or food service
worker or a hospital director. When they are caught doing
wrongdoing and breaking Federal law, they should be fired. When
these employees----
Senator McCain. And to your knowledge, there is none of
that?
Mr. Coleman. Senator McCain, the director had a meeting on
the 13th of January asking to terminate me, was told he could
not terminate me by legal counsel Shelly Cutts, and she said,
``But we can come up with other employee actions to get rid of
him.'' On the 27th, I was taken out of my position. The H.R.
chief, Laurie Butler, came forward and gave a sworn
deposition--she is also a retired Navy officer, has no reason
to lie; I never met her before in my life--showing that this
meeting happened. We have asked for a full investigation into
Director Glen Grippen's actions. It is amazing, the corruption
that goes.
So if you wanted an answer from me, my answer is
accountability. When we catch these directors doing wrongdoing,
they need to be fired, just like they do to us when we come
forward.
Senator McCain. And if they are not fired, then the
leadership should be fired.
Mr. Coleman. I agree. I agree, sir, because how can you
trust your commanders in chief, all the way up the chain of
command. These are not people you are ready to run into combat
with, because they are out for themselves. So, all of us here,
the three of us are all veterans. And I believe in my chain of
command, and I also believe in good leadership, as you guys
were saying before. There is not good leadership currently. We
do not trust the leadership, because look at what they can do
to us.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. I would second what Mr. Coleman said. I
think, accountability for the people who have been proven to be
the problem is certainly what should happen.
I also realize that this process here is a long, tedious
one that requires gathering evidence, hearing testimony, as we
are doing now. As I pointed out, the chief of staff at the
hospital where my brother worked as far as I know is still
employed by the VA, and it appears that he ran that hospital
through intimidation, forced some good people out there--my
brother, who really wanted to help people and sacrificed
everything to be able to do that. It seems like the people who
are the bad ones here, they lack that ingrained compassion and
desire to help the veterans.
It is difficult for me because, I am not a veteran myself,
and I am speaking on behalf of my brother, who cannot speak for
himself, but----
Senator McCain. Well, could I just say to you, sir, that I
know this Chairman and I know the Ranking Member, and I want to
support them every way possible. We will do everything we can
to hold them accountable. And what bothers us is that what
happens to you is a strong disincentive for others to act with
your courage. Is that right, Mr. Colon.
Mr. Colon. That is totally correct, Senator. And, first of
all, I want to thank you for your service.
Senator McCain. Thank you.
Mr. Colon. Like Mr. Brandon Coleman said and Mr.
Kirkpatrick, there has been no accountability for the whole
team that retaliated against me in San Juan, Puerto Rico.
Another thing that I find astonishing, there is a table of
penalties from a center memorandum that is a VA directive that
States on page 38 to 42 that they can remove people for
retaliation. But they failed to use their own table of
penalties to hold executives or managers or supervisors that
are retaliating against whistleblowers. So I find the main key
thing, I think, to fix everything is to hold people that are
found guilty of retaliation to be removed from the VA.
Senator McCain. Thank you.
Mr. Wilkes. Senator, it is good to see you again. I know we
talked when you were in Shreveport with Senator Cassidy, and
you had told me--and I think this is very telling. You said to
me that day, when I said I am one of the whistleblowers, you
said, ``Thank you.'' And you said, ``Do you know that I sat in
front of that director, and they looked me in the eye, and they
said nothing was going on'' ? And, if they will lie to you and
try to cover this up, there is no accountability, and they do
not fear it. You can just see that they do not fear that
anything is going to happen to them because they have gotten
away with it for so long.
Until we are able to show that whistleblowers will be
protected and that something is going to be able to be done,
you are never going to know the depth of this corruption. There
are people that want to come forward but are scared. They need
their jobs. They come and they pull Brandon and me aside, and
they say, ``Thank you for coming forward.'' And then, some of
the schedulers said, ``Hey, you brought this forward, and, are
they going to go back and change our evaluations? '' And I
said, ``What do you mean? '' They said, ``Well, they marked us
lower, and they told us, `You made this many appointments over
14 days, and we are marking you down.' "
And I want to tell them, ``Yes, they are,'' but I cannot
because I know they are not. They want to come forward and
say--they have told me, ``I would tell the IG if they came and
asked me.'' The IG does not want to ask them.
Senator McCain. Well, I thank you, and I thank you, Mr.
Chairman, and Senator Carper for this hearing and your untiring
efforts. We have to stop this. We just must stop it.
I thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Johnson. Well, thank you, Senator McCain. And just
to kind of answer your question in terms of how rampant, it is
almost epidemic proportions, but in subsequent testimony by the
Office of Special Counsel, she is laying out the facts, that
there are 4,000 prohibited personnel practice complaints in
2015 to the Office of Special Counsel. Four thousand. That
would be the retaliation complaints. Fourteen hundred of those,
about 35 percent, come from the VA. So this is rampant, this is
a problem, and it is a problem we are going to address.
Let me just say we are going to have votes at 11, and I
think what I will do, because the Ranking Member, Senator
Carper, did not get a chance to ask questions, I will turn it
over to him. He can ask questions. I would say, Senator
Baldwin, if you would like to stay here and ask questions while
I go vote--I am not going to recess. We will just keep this
thing going. But then when I come back, we will seat the next
panel. So if you guys want to take it from there and ask
questions.
Senator Carper. Thanks.
Chairman Johnson. And, again, thank you. I will be back.
Senator Carper. Thanks.
Chairman Johnson. I heard there was one vote.
Senator Carper. I think there are two.
Chairman Johnson. OK. That will complicate things. I will
still quickly vote, and we will get going.
Senator Carper. [Presiding.] OK, good. Again, our thanks to
you. Please bear with us as we try to do our jobs here and do
our jobs voting. Sometimes it gets a little complicated.
I believe one of the goals of this Committee needs to be
understanding how the process really works for whistleblowers
and what we can do to improve it.
I would just ask each of you just one thing that is
working, one thing that is working that you have seen working
with respect to whistleblowers, whistleblower protection, and
share a best practice with us. And if the answer is, ``I have
never seen anything that works''--the Office of Special Counsel
I am convinced works. We have seen it ourselves at Dover Air
Force Base. But just share with me one thing, very briefly, one
thing that you have seen work. And I do not care who goes
first.
Mr. Wilkes. With me, the Office----
Senator Carper. I like to say: Find out what works. Do more
of that.
Mr. Wilkes. I think you are right. The Office of Special
Counsel helped me. I would probably still have a looming
criminal investigation over my head today if they had not
stepped in when I filed my----
Senator Carper. OK. Thank you.
Mr. Colon. I just wanted to say one thing. I think it is
the Office of Special Counsel--if it was not for the Office of
Special Counsel, I would have been terminated. I think they
worked. That is why I think we have to give them broader
authority to hold these people who retaliate against us. And I
would say just the Office of Special Counsel.
Senator Carper. All right. Thank you, sir. Mr. Coleman.
Mr. Coleman. Senator, I would echo their statements with
the Office of Special Counsel when I came forward. What I would
say is they need more help. The Office of Special Counsel I
believe is overwhelmed, because I get, just like Dr. Katherine
L. Mitchell, one of the whistleblowers from 2014, she and I
speak just about every day, and I get anywhere from one to
three calls from whistleblowers. I have had two since I have
been in D.C. where I listen to these employees cry and tell me
what is going on, and I always take that call, because I wish
someone would have been able to do that for me.
So I believe that the Office of Special Counsel needs more
help, because I think some of these people that are coming
forward, I just think it is an overwhelming task to ask the
Office of Special Counsel to be able to help everybody. I do
not think they have the manpower currently.
Senator Carper. All right. Thanks so much. Mr. Kirkpatrick.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. Unfortunately, I do not have the status of
being a whistleblower myself, so I cannot really confidently
comment on that. But I would say with the people that I know
and have met, Ryan Honl, Noelle Johnson, and others, I think--
and I know this may not be the answer you are looking for, but,
they found sympathetic people within the media. They reached
out to other whistleblowers, and as I stated before, I would
not know any of what happened to my brother without Ryan and
Lin, and that is really all I can say about that, and this
Committee as well.
Senator Carper. Thank you.
Mr. Kirkpatrick. Thank you.
Senator Carper. Let me just ask, for those of you who are
whistleblowers, when you first thought you were being
retaliated against, were you aware of your rights as a
whistleblower and the processes and resources that were
available to you? Mr. Wilkes, would you start with that?
Mr. Wilkes. I had taken the trainings, and I was somewhat
aware of it. But the overall process and how to do it and
things like that, I have had to figure out on the go, who to
file with, what you can file. A lot of times when you have a
complaint in the VA, what I found is that you want to say,
``Hey, let us go to EEOC,'' or, ``Hey, let us go to Office of
Special Counsel,'' or, ``Hey, let us go to the IG.'' I went to
the IG first because I thought that is what to do. I never
heard from them on the first one I did, and then the second
one, it took them a month and a half after I reported it again.
I went to the Office of Special Counsel after they told me
that I was under investigation criminally, and I learned about
that process. So I was not aware--it is a lot of steps to it,
and that is kind of why we kind of started a support group, the
Truth Tellers and stuff, to kind of help each other and share
our stories with each other to let each other know exactly how
to file, what you want to make sure, I mean, because it is very
emotional, and you are isolated. I mean, they isolate you, and
that is how they kind of keep you that way.
Senator Carper. All right. Thank you.
Mr. Colon, same question, please. Were you aware of your
rights as a whistleblower and the processes and resources
available to you?
Mr. Colon. Negative, sir. But I was well aware that once I
came forward that I would be retaliated against, because I had
a good friend in 2010 that came forward about the reusable
medical equipment that happened down in San Juan, Puerto Rico,
and he was removed from his position. I do not think there is
enough training of it. I know the American Legion visited our
facility, and they found a bunch of posters that were up in the
office that were never posted.
When people come talk to me, I am very honest with them. I
tell them, ``If you are willing to come forward, expect this to
happen,'' because as long as--like, I keep on reiterating this
famous
word--there are two words, and I do not wear the ``I Care'' pin
for two reasons, because I am an advocate, he is an advocate,
he is an advocate for veterans, and we have become--look what
they have done to us. And then they do not use the ``A'' for
the accountability. So I will never wear that ``I Care'' pin
until I see actual change. But there is nothing. They do not
tell you how to do this. It is like the other fellow, a friend
over here that just stated there is no training for us from the
get-go.
Senator Carper. OK. Thanks. Mr. Coleman.
Mr. Coleman. I think, sir, even the training that there is
limited, and it has changed so much in the last 2 years since
this scandal has been going on.
I think one thing that is important to point out is that we
as whistleblowers, we should have the right to defend against
retaliatory actions before the VA goes on the witch hunt. That
is from the time that I came forward to the Office of Special
Counsel regarding the systemic issues in early December, and
then the retaliation was nonstop. However, the Office of
Special Counsel was unable to take action until I was walked
out from my employment on January 27th, crying. I had no one to
call. I called the OSC attorney, David Tuteur, literally in
tears. I did not know what to do, because I had just been taken
out of a job that I loved. So, there is no way to defend
ourselves, and the OSC, their hands are kind of tied as far as
the retaliation goes until an act like that occurs, the overt
acts of retaliation are going on every day. I asked for
mediation on November 26th, because that is what I was told to
do. My direct-line supervisor, who retaliated against me,
waited until December 16 to get back to me, 20 calendar days. I
know that is not right. It is my full written 188-page
testimony that you have, sir.
Senator Carper. All right. Thank you. Some of you have
already answered this question, but I just want to throw it out
there anyway. Based on your experience--and if you have already
answered it, you do not have to answer it again. But based on
your experience, what do you think could be done to make the
information about whistleblowers' rights and the processes and
resources available to whistleblowers, what could be done to
make the process work better for future whistleblowers? And if
you have already answered that, that is fine. But if you have
just a nugget or two you would like to share with us, please
do.
Mr. Coleman. I think I would like to share on that,
Senator, if I could. I think that not enough is being done to
get the word out, and I do not know what the answer is, because
I have thought about this. I enjoy helping veterans get clean
and sober. That is what I think I was put on this Earth to do
professionally. It is just amazing.
Senator Carper. Isn't it great to know what you were put on
this Earth to do? Isn't that great?
Mr. Coleman. It is, and to actually get paid for it, that
is the trick having a job you would do for free.
However, I would say that I am very passionate about
whistleblower rights, and it has kind of grown just because of
what I have been through. I think more needs to be done. I do
not think we can count on the VA to have us set up, but I think
groups like the Truth Tellers, having ways to have
whistleblowers available, because like I said, just getting
these calls, these calls from other whistleblowers, is just
heart-wrenching. And they have nowhere to go. And I am telling
them to contact certain Senator or Representative's offices,
sometimes out of their home State, because I have developed
relationships with them, and I am telling them which media
outlets to contact because the media is kind of your best
friend in defending yourself. If it was not for the media and
the Senate offices and the OSC, I would have been fired long
ago? And so you kind of have to fight that battle, and each one
of our battles, while they are so similar, are also so
different, because like
Shea--like Mr. Wilkes said, we are isolated. They isolate us. I
had read all the articles from Tomah and, from Shreveport and
from Puerto Rico, and I knew these guys existed. But I never
knew that they went through the same thing as me, and that is
where the power is, us coming together to be able to help
future whistleblowers. There needs to be help there until we
figure out a way to fix the VA. I do not know how long that is
going to take, but there needs to be more to protect these
people under Federal law when they are brave enough to come
forward. That is what I think, sir.
Senator Carper. Yes, the media can play a valuable role
here. The media takes a lot of abuse. They hand out a lot of
abuse.
Mr. Coleman. They protected me.
Senator Carper. But they also can play a very valuable role
here.
A real quick one, if I could, for Mr. Wilkes, and then the
Chairman is going to come back and I am going to run over and
vote, and we will play tag. I understand you are the founder of
the group VA Truth Tellers. Could you just take a minute and
explain to us what motivated you to get it started and how does
it work?
Mr. Wilkes. Basically it took off on its own. I kept
reading, like Brandon said, these articles, and I am, like,
``Oh, my gosh, this is going on to a lot of us all over the
country. And, like Dr. Mitchell and her thing, she had said
that the IG was more worried about her making privacy things,
and that was like me. They were more after me, investigating me
for privacy violations.
And I just started reading stories, and I reached out to
Brandon and actually a lot of the media. And he is correct. The
VA is more worried about their image, and that is one way that
you can get the attention, is to try to tarnish their image and
get your story out. And, actually, a lot of the media reporters
got me in touch with all them, gave me their email addresses,
gave me their phone numbers, and we started reaching out. And I
had four. And then I met Germaine Clarno, and she had been
trying to do the same thing on the other side. And it started
out, we had 10 people, and basically it was in email. We were
emailing just supporting each other.
And, it kept growing, and people started coming in, and I
was, like, ``Oh, my gosh,'' I did not expect it. And then we
knew we had something. And then when those reports came out in
Tomah and we had seen it and they whitewashed them and they
started attacking whistleblowers, we had had enough. And I told
the group and Germaine and I told them, I said, ``We got to do
something about this.'' And then that is when we came out with
the letter to the President about, the IG Director at the time
we were calling for him to be dismissed. And that afternoon,
after that letter, he announced his retirement that Saturday.
And since then, it has kind of grown even more. I mean, every
day Brandon--I get emails, text messages from whistleblowers
all over the country and it is the same thing. It is the same
story. It is absolutely amazing how each of our situations are
unique, but how the retaliation is so similar. It is like the
VA leaders have a book they developed on how to retaliate and
this is how you do it, because it is the same.
Senator Carper. Over the last, gosh, 40-some years, maybe
50 years, in this country we have tried to figure out in a
health care delivery system how do we get better results for
less money, and for years we kept seeing the percentage of
health care costs in this country as a percentage of GDP go up,
up, up, up, double-digit increases in the rate of inflation in
health care delivery, and not always with better results. A
couple years ago, we had a situation where it was widely
reported that about 100,000 people died in hospitals every
year. It is not VA hospitals, but like hospitals across the
country, which is a sad commentary. It is a sad commentary.
Some people said we need to do health care reform in order to
slow the growth of health care costs, and we did. Some people
said we needed to do it in order to better ensure that we do
not have 40 million people that go to bed at night without any
health care coverage. We did. And we also said we had to get
better results, and we do. And I think in some respects we are.
The number of people without health care coverage is down from
about 40 million to maybe closer to 10 million now, headed in
the right direction. Health care costs as a planning of gross
domestic product (GDP) is no longer going up double-digit rates
of inflation. In fact, health care costs as a percentage of GDP
are actually coming down now slightly. But we still have a lot
to do in terms of getting better results for less money.
I am going to run and vote; otherwise, I miss my chance.
But I will be back, OK? Thank you. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Johnson. [Presiding.] Thank you, Senator Carper.
Again, I want to thank the witnesses for taking the time
coming here, and let me underscore again that our ability--and
you are seeing, I think, some bipartisan agreement, which is
really what we need to do. Let us concentrate on the areas of
agreement that unite us rather than exploit our division. So
you are seeing some bipartisan agreement. Our ability to take
action, to pass legislation, will be due in large part because
of the courage of your actions and the power of your testimony.
So, again, I want to thank all of you for coming forward.
Obviously, we offer our condolences, Mr. Kirkpatrick, to you
and your family. But, again, thank you for coming forward. We
will act. We will act.
Thank you. Let us seat the next panel now.
[Pause.]
Thank you. I appreciate your patience.
As I said in the earlier panel, it is the tradition of this
Committee to swear in witnesses, so if you will all rise and
raise your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony you will
give before this Committee will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you, God?
Ms. Lerner. I do.
Ms. Halliday. I do.
Dr. Clancy. I do.
Mr. Culpepper. I do.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you. Please be seated.
Our first witness on the second panel will be Carolyn
Lerner. She is Special Counsel at the Office of Special
Counsel. Ms. Lerner.
TESTIMONY OF THE HONORABLE CAROLYN N. LERNER,\1\ SPECIAL
COUNSEL, U.S. OFFICE OF SPECIAL COUNSEL
Ms. Lerner. Thank you, Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member
Carper, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for the
opportunity to testify today about the U.S. Office of Special
Counsel and our work with VA whistleblowers. I also want to
thank you or your work founding the Senate Whistleblower
Caucus. OSC has already started to work with this caucus and
looks forward to doing so more in the future.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ The prepared statement of Hon. Lerner appears in the Appendix
on page 97.
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The Office of Special Counsel helps whistleblowers, and
helps employees who make disclosures of wrongdoing and those
who experience retaliation after doing so. There are separate
processes for these two types of cases. I just want to go over
them briefly.
If an employee discloses a health or safety concern or a
violation of law, rule, or regulation, and it meets a very high
standard of review, I send the matter to the agency for
investigation. After investigating, the agency must then
provide an investigative report to my office. The whistleblower
is given an opportunity to comment. I then determine whether
the agency report contains the information required by statute
and also whether the agency's findings appear reasonable. This
includes whether appropriate corrective action, including
discipline, has been taken. I then send the information and our
findings to the President and Congress and post them on our
website. That is the process for disclosures.
OSC also protects Federal workers from prohibited personnel
practices, especially retaliation for whistleblowing. Unlike
disclosure cases where we do not have independent investigative
authority, in retaliation cases OSC conducts the investigation
and determines if retaliation occurred. We can get relief for
the employee, including a stay of disciplinary action,
reversing a termination, and damages for losses that are
suffered as a result of the retaliation. So that in a nutshell
is our process for we believe disclosures and retaliation
complaints.
Over the past 18 months, there has been a tremendous surge
in cases from the VA. I will talk now about how our agency is
addressing them, some signs of progress, as well as some areas
of ongoing concern.
OSC has about 140 employees with jurisdiction over the
entire Federal Government. We are stretched pretty thin. But we
have reallocated our resources to prioritize VA cases. Perhaps
most significantly, we implemented an expedited review process
for retaliation cases. This process allows OSC to present
strong cases to the VA at an early stage, saving resources and
getting quicker relief for employees.
In the past year, we have obtained approximately 30
corrective actions for VA whistleblowers through this expedited
process, including a settlement on behalf of Mr. Joseph Colon,
who testified just now. We also worked to secure relief for Mr.
Ryan Honl of the Tomah VA.
These are important victories for employees who risk their
professional lives to improve VA operations and quality of care
provided to veterans. My written testimony summarizes a number
of other cases resolved through the expedited program,
including an employee who was fired for requesting assistance
from Congress.
It is a sign of progress that the VA leadership agreed to
the expedited review process. It has also agreed to resolve
many more cases through regular processes, including mediation,
through which we have gotten VA employees full or partial
relief 84 times this year.
On the disclosure side, our work has led to important
improvements at the VA as well as discipline for 40 officials.
This is an important step toward greater accountability and
deterring future misconduct. However, our review of several
recent disclosure cases indicates that disciplinary actions are
being inconsistently imposed and are often of little
consequence. The failure to take appropriate discipline where
there is clear evidence of misconduct can undermine
accountability, impede progress, and discourage whistleblowers
from coming forward.
I highlighted these concerns last week in a letter to the
President and the Chairmen of the VA committees. I believe you
all have that letter now. In the letter, I contrasted the lack
of discipline in response to confirmed mismanagement at the
Phoenix VA and other locations with the penalties imposed on
whistleblowers for minor indiscretions. For instance, one
whistleblower faced termination for eating a few expired
sandwiches worth $5. I hope that VA leadership will review
these cases and determine whether systemic changes to
discipline could correct the inconsistent imposition of
penalties.
Based on the VA leadership's positive responses to prior
recommendations, I am hopeful that they will work to address
this problem. In fact, just last week, Deputy Secretary Sloan
Gibson outlined a new process for responding to OSC
whistleblower referrals. They will now be routed through the VA
Executive Secretariat. This should ensure high-level review of
all whistleblower allegations and investigations, and I am
hopeful that the centralized process will help to address the
concerns I outlined in my September 17 letter.
Other ongoing issues of concern which I have previously
noted include retaliatory investigations of whistleblowers,
improper accessing of whistleblowers' medical records, the role
of regional counsel, and the VA IG's unwillingness to provide
OSC with information.
In conclusion, we appreciate the Committee's interest in
our efforts to protect VA whistleblowers and for all you are
doing to advance whistleblower rights. The stories we have
heard today from the four witnesses on the first panel are the
stories that we hear every day at the Office of Special Counsel
from hundreds of VA employees. We appreciate your support for
our efforts.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I am happy to
answer any questions you may have.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Ms. Lerner.
By the way, I think that is an extremely important point
that we just had four stories but they are typical.
Ms. Lerner. Hundreds.
Chairman Johnson. They are not outliers. This is what you
are dealing with, so I appreciate your efforts.
Our next witness is Linda Halliday. Ms. Halliday is the
Deputy Inspector General at the Department of Veterans Affairs
Office of Inspector General. Ms. Halliday.
TESTIMONY OF LINDA A. HALLIDAY,\1\ DEPUTY INSPECTOR GENERAL,
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS
Ms. Halliday. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee,
thank you for the opportunity to discuss the fundamental
importance of whistleblowers to the VA OIG's mission and how
the OIG works to protect and encourage Federal employees to
come forward with allegations of waste, fraud, abuse, and
mismanagement. I am accompanied by Mr. Quentin Aucoin, our
Assistant Inspector General for Investigations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ The prepared statement of Ms. Halliday appears in the Appendix
on page 110.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whistleblowers are the lifeline of OIG organizations. Our
OIG is committed to protecting their identities, understanding
their concerns, objectively seeking the truth, and ensuring VA
pursues accountability and corrective action for wrongdoing.
Individuals who at times risk their reputations and careers to
report suspected wrongdoing should be afforded all the
protections available by law.
Whistleblowers have played a vital part in revealing
serious problems in need of corrective action at VA. For
example, we recently acknowledged the instrumental efforts of
whistleblowers who exposed extensive, persistent data integrity
issues at the VHA's Health Eligibility Center and serious
mismanagement and operational performance issues at the VA
Regional office in Philadelphia.
Federal laws dictate that veterans have both a right and an
expectation that VA employees will not compromise the security
of their sensitive personal information, even during the course
of making a whistleblower disclosure. While we strongly
encourage the reporting of wrongdoing, we equally encourage
employees to do it in a responsible manner consistent with the
applicable laws.
After assuming the position of the Deputy Inspector General
3 months ago, I made it my first priority to reinforce that the
OIG values whistleblowers and that we are hearing and learning
from the more recent complaints. We go to great lengths to
protect their identity. We encourage them to report suspected
wrongdoing to the IG. And any reprisal for doing so is
absolutely unacceptable.
I took steps to strengthen our Whistleblower Protection
Ombudsman program and our internal whistleblower training
program. OIG is also in the process of completing the U.S.
Office of Special Counsel certification program which will
ensure that all OIG employees can assist complainants in
educating them on their right to be free from retaliation for
whistleblowing.
But our efforts to improve the OIG business processes and
encourage whistleblowers to come forward do not stop there. I
have also directed my staff to assess our own communications
and feedback with individuals who report suspected wrongdoing,
especially when the complaints involve complex and lengthy
reviews, and to take action to update with VA their current
policy on managing external referrals to VA. We are assessing
opportunities to change our existing process for referring
lower-risk complaints to VA that we lack the resources
ourselves to do, to include assessing the feasibility of
repositioning our resources to perform more reviews with our
own resources rather than relying on a process that makes
external referrals to VA. We want to provide greater assurance
of confidentiality to whistleblowers and to enhance the quality
of our own investigations and reviews performed.
I have also reinvigorated the OIG rewards program, but make
no mistake about it: We recognize the critical role
complainants and whistleblowers play in exposing serious
problems and deficiencies in VA programs and operations, and I
will continue to review and evaluate ways in which OIG can
enhance its interactions with complainants and promote greater
confidence.
In addition, I have done outreach to meet and establish
strong relationships with several of the large Veterans Service
Organizations to enlist their input on programs that may not be
serving veterans' needs well. While we are thankful that the
Congress has facilitated growth in OIG resources, I want to
conclude by leaving the Committee with the understanding that
there is a serious discrepancy between the size of our
workforce and the size of our workload. The OIG is not right-
sized to respond to all of the complaints we currently receive.
We have approximately 660 multidisciplinary professional staff
conducting criminal investigations, audit, health care and
benefits inspections, and contract and financial reviews for an
agency with more than 354,000 employees and $163.5 billion in
their operating budget in Fiscal Year 2015. In fact, OIG's
Fiscal Year 2015 budget is less than 1 percent of VA's budget.
The resources pale in comparison to VA's massive decentralized
and diverse facilities and the number of employees and the
amount of funding needing regular oversight.
Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement, and I would be
happy to answer any questions.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Ms. Halliday.
Our final witness is Carolyn Clancy. Dr. Clancy is the
Chief Medical Officer at the Veterans Health Administration
within the Department of Veterans Affairs. She is accompanied
by Mr. Michael Culpepper, the Acting Director of the VA Office
of Accountability Review. Dr. Clancy.
TESTIMONY OF CAROLYN CLANCY, M.D.,\1\ CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER,
VETERANS HEALTH ADMINISTRATION, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS
AFFAIRS; ACCOMPANIED BY MICHAEL CULPEPPER, ACTING DIRECTOR,
OFFICE OF ACCOUNTABILITY REVIEW
Dr. Clancy. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Members of the
Committee. Thank you for inviting us here today to discuss the
ways that Congress and VA can further encourage Federal
employees to come forward with their concerns regarding quality
of care, patient safety, and waste, fraud, and abuse.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ The prepared statement of Ms. Clancy appears in the Appendix on
page 117.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
We exist at VA to serve veterans, and we depend on our
front-line employees to serve veterans with dignity,
compassion, and dedication. And I want to thank you and the
Members of the Committee and other colleagues for recognizing
just how passionate and dedicated the vast majority of our
employees are.
We depend on these same employees to be vigilant about
actual and potential sources of harm to patients and to voice
their concerns if a patient's safety is at risk. We recognize
very clearly the important role that whistleblowing plays and
addressing the express concerns in bringing issues to light.
As the whistleblowers today have demonstrated, the
Department has had problems with ensuring that whistleblower
disclosures receive prompt and effective attention and that the
whistleblowers themselves are protected from retaliation.
Secretary Robert McDonald, Deputy Secretary Sloan Gibson,
and other VA senior leaders, including myself, have made it our
practice to meet with whistleblowers when we travel to VA
facilities and to engage directly with those who have raised
their hands and voices to identify problems and proposed
solutions.
For example, I am personally invested in ensuring that the
quality of care at the Tomah VA is of the highest order and
that any and all circumstances that led to problems at that
facility have been diagnosed, addressed, with a sustainable
path forward.
Retaliation against whistleblowers who have demonstrated
the moral courage and at great personal risk to share their
concerns is unacceptable and cannot and will not be tolerated.
We are making progress, and under Secretary Robert McDonald's
leadership, we are confident we will reach our goal of ensuring
that every employee feels safe in raising concerns and is
protected from retaliation when they choose to do so.
Monitoring the environment and whether people feel safe
speaking up is something that we watch very, very closely.
All health care systems require a wide array of feedback
from multiple sources to ensure the best clinical outcome for
patients. In addition to many formal mechanisms, the Department
has taken several important steps in recent months to improve
the way we address operational deficiencies and to ensure that
those who disclose such deficiencies are protected. For
example, we have communicated regularly to employees and
managers about the importance of whistleblower protection. We
track corrective actions, require annual training, and we have
an online way to gather employee feedback and are now certified
by the Office of Special Counsel.
In addition, just over a year ago, the Secretary
reorganized and assigned new leadership to VA's Office of the
Medical Inspector (OMI). OMI moved quickly to establish clear
policies to ensure that whistleblower allegations are
investigated objectively, thoroughly, and promptly. Since that
time, this office has completed 30 new whistleblower
investigations and prepared more than a dozen supplemental
reports to follow-up on earlier investigations.
We have also improved our collaboration with the U.S.
Office of Special Counsel, to step up to the challenge before
us. We have collaborated with OSC to design and implement
training for VA General Counsel and the Office of
Accountability Review (OAR). This will eventually be rolled out
across the Department, and as has been noted, last summer VA
and OSC agreed upon an expedited process to speed corrective
action for employees who have been subjected to retaliation. As
of September 9, we had received 22 expedited cases and resolved
11.
We understand that we can improve on the timeliness of
ensuring individuals found responsible for retaliation are
disciplined appropriately and that deficiencies with programs
and underlying issues are addressed.
One approach that we do want to raise is for Congress to
fund OSC at a level that enables that office to hire more
investigators to complete this work. OSC has traditionally
fulfilled this charge, and increasing their staffing to a level
to assist VA in this endeavor would allow VA's limited
investigative assets and resources to focus more in our area of
expertise.
To say it a different way, if we are successful in
encouraging whistleblowers to step forward, we will have many
more to deal with, and that is a good thing. That means that
the people who are now currently fearful of stepping forward,
as we heard from the first panel, will indeed feel that it is
not only OK but a really great thing that they step forward and
share their concerns. And it is anticipating that future that
makes us raise this suggestion. It is very important that we
hold individuals guilty of retaliation accountable for their
actions and that we do so as timely as possible. And we welcome
OSC's additional assistance on this front.
The courageous and really heroic witnesses you heard from
earlier today, and many, many others, underscore the importance
of ensuring that all veterans receive the highest quality of
medical care. I acknowledge today that VA is still working
toward the full culture change we must achieve. We need to
listen better the first time employees raise concerns. We need
to ensure that all employees feel safe disclosing problems, and
we need to guarantee that all supervisors who engage in
retaliatory behavior are held promptly and meaningfully
accountable. And, last, we need to work on establishing a
culture where everyone recognizes that whistleblowing is not
only beneficial, it is a gift to the organization.
We continue to work with whistleblowers, OSC, and the
Congress to resolve these issues and are very committed to
these endeavors.
Mr. Chairman, that concludes my testimony, and we look
forward to your questions.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Dr. Clancy.
Now, you were all three sitting in the audience for the
previous testimony, correct?
Dr. Clancy. Yes.
Chairman Johnson. I just want to ask each of you--and I
guess we will start with Ms. Lerner--what was your gut
reaction? What was going through your head? I mean, outside of
your testimony, as you were listening to that testimony, what
was going through your head? What was your initial reaction?
Ms. Lerner.
Ms. Lerner. I wish I could say that it was news, but it was
not. As I said in my opening statement, the stories, several of
them we have been working with, so we are very familiar with
these gentlemen's stories. And as you said, they are not
atypical. These folks are representative of the hundreds of VA
employees who come to the Office of Special Counsel. We have
hundreds of matters just like that that we are dealing with
now.
I think you may have been out voting when Senator Carper
went down the line and said, ``What can we do? What is
working?'' And each one of them said, I was very pleased to
hear, that the Office of Special Counsel had helped them. So I
was proud of that. I am really proud of my staff. Many of them
are here today. They are doing, the Lord's work, really. They
spend time on the phone with these folks who are in crisis, and
they are doing an excellent job putting together reports of
investigation that allow us to report to you and the President
what is going on.
We are building cases, which together are sort of--not to
mix metaphors, they are all parts of the puzzle that we can see
what is going on all over the country. And so my recent letter
said, look, this is a pattern that we are seeing everywhere. We
are seeing folks getting slaps on the wrist who are engaging in
serious misconduct, not really being disciplined, all over the
country. Compare that with the folks who are taking sandwiches
or, sending out one email about doing taxes. They are facing
termination. There is something wrong here.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you again. I just wanted your
initial reaction.
Ms. Lerner. Sorry. It was a long answer.
Chairman Johnson. Ms. Halliday, again, just initial
reaction.
Ms. Halliday. My initial reaction is I am really
disheartened that VA is in the state of affairs it is in today.
I have dedicated my entire career to serving veterans. The fact
is if somebody brings an issue forward that can move positive
change, why you would take actions against that individual is
beyond me. When you do that, it is bad management.
Chairman Johnson. OK. Dr. Clancy.
Dr. Clancy. Profound appreciation for the individuals who
were here before and the work they are doing to support others.
A lot of pain listening to Mr. Kirkpatrick talk about his
brother. And continued concern personally about the people who
are fearful of speaking up even as we sit here today. And,
frankly, a lot of impatience. We need to speed up our actions
in terms of our disciplinary processes.
Chairman Johnson. OK. I appreciate those answers.
Ms. Halliday, you heard Mr. Wilkes in his testimony say
that the VA Office of Inspector General is a joke. In your
testimony, you said whistleblowers are a vital part, the Office
of Inspector General values whistleblowers, reprisals are
unacceptable. I want to talk about a white paper that was
issued on really the investigation of this Committee and really
the events that were revealed through press reports with the
Tomah VA health care facility.
Were you at all involved in the writing of that white
paper?
Ms. Halliday. I was not.
Chairman Johnson. Were you aware it was being written and
issued?
Ms. Halliday. I was not.
Chairman Johnson. It strikes me as, quite honestly,
reprehensible. We issued a subpoena to the Office of Inspector
General because we were not getting cooperation in this
Committee's investigation of the events at Tomah and, quite
honestly, as that blossomed with other whistleblowers, what is
happening around this country in terms of opioid
overprescription, drug diversion, retaliation, and we were not
getting cooperation under the previous Acting Inspector
General, so we had to issue a subpoena at the end of April.
Now, the Office of Inspector General then issued this white
paper a little more than a month later. Now, this is the same
Office of Inspector General that basically deep-sixed 140
reports and an Office of Inspector General that was so
concerned, as am I, as is this Committee, about not releasing
personal information, particularly health care records. And yet
the Office of Inspector General issues this white paper, and I
want to quote some of the more outrageous parts of this white
paper. And this speaks, first of all, to the family of the
Kirkpatricks.
This is from the white paper: ``I strongly recommend a
thorough review of the in-depth sheriff's report, a publicly
available document that is included in the documents produced,
records produced''--pages whatever--``with specific attention
to the pages detailing the voluminous amounts and types of
marijuana and what appears to be other illegal substances found
in Dr. Kirkpatrick's residence, as well as other items
including a scale and used devices containing marijuana
residue.''
I want that to sink in. This came from the Office of
Inspector General who says whistleblowers are a vital part, the
OIG values whistleblowers, reprisal is unacceptable. That
sounds like a reprisal to me to a dead person. I want that
sinking in.
Second, in referring to another whistleblower, pharmacist
Noelle Johnson said her termination was because she had poor
interpersonal skills and was caustic with clinicians. Again,
this is a white paper from the Office of Inspector General. I
can only conclude from this white paper--by the way, this was
also directed to this Committee's investigation, but I could
care less. But I care deeply about the intimidation, the
retaliation, the reprisal coming from the Office of Inspector
General.
So, listen, I appreciate the testimony. I appreciate the
assurances that whistleblowers are a vital part, that the OIG
values whistleblowers, that reprisals are unacceptable. But
that is not the record.
What will the Office of Inspector General, what will the VA
do to make good on this, to make up for this reprisal, for this
reprehensible reprisal? What action are you willing to take?
And you heard Mr. Sean Kirkpatrick asking for the records for
the family so that they understand what is happening. I want
assurances that the VA will release those records to the
family. I want assurances that this will be corrected, that
amends will be made for this reprehensible reprisal. Ms.
Halliday?
Ms. Halliday. As I stated, I did not prepare that document.
Chairman Johnson. Who did? Do you know the individuals
within the Office of Inspector General that wrote this? Who did
this? I want to know. This Committee wants to know who is
involved in this.
Ms. Halliday. The prior----
Chairman Johnson. I want to know every individual who was
involved in writing this report.
Ms. Halliday. I would have to take that for the record.
Chairman Johnson. We will leave that as an open question
for the record.
Dr. Clancy, what can the VA do to make amends for this?
Dr. Clancy. I noted very clearly a number of very important
suggestions that Mr. Kirkpatrick made, including the personal
request about receiving his brother's official personnel file.
I do not know and my colleague is not clear on whether we can
do that, but if we can, we will certainly do so.
Chairman Johnson. OK. Listen, let me apologize for showing
such passion up here. Let me tell you what my gut reaction was
in this hearing to these witnesses. I was upset coming in here,
and you can tell I have become more upset. I think every member
of this Committee has become more upset as we hear this.
Ms. Lerner, you look like you want to say something.
Ms. Lerner. The only thought I have is possible
disciplinary action that might be taken against the person who
is responsible. That is, I think, an avenue that could be
explored.
Chairman Johnson. Well, I will work with your office to
find out exactly who those were and exactly what the proper
accountability and the proper disciplinary action should be
taken from those members in the Office of Inspector General,
remember, that transparent, that independent watchdog over
these agencies. My time has expired. Senator Baldwin.
Senator Baldwin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
First, a comment. On the situation in Tomah the Chairman
has just discussed, the IG's various publications, I want to
state for the record a conversation that we have had in
delegation conference calls as well as private meetings on the
importance of making VA' investigation into Tomah public. You
can tell, by this hearing and the many other opportunities we
have had to receive testimony that we have a greater ability to
ask questions when we have a document we can read. I know you
are working on that, but certainly we are very eager to see the
work product; you have given us verbal assurances that you have
spoken with each and every whistleblower whose name I have
forwarded.
Beyond Tomah and looking more globally, I have two
questions. One relates to the testimony we heard earlier and
what I have heard from whistleblowers at Tomah concerning the
ability of veterans to look into medical records and use what
they have found to publicly assail the credibility of a
whistleblower.
Based on the testimony that we are hearing, not only is
this prevalent, but it sounds as though there have been
virtually no instances of accountability for inappropriate
access of those records. You have heard some fairly basic
suggestions for how to make that right. One suggestion was that
two parties have to be involved in accessing a record; another
that we use information technology to uncover inappropriate
access; and, third, that the folks who inappropriately access
this data be held accountable. And I have not heard much of
that.
I would like to hear your comments on tangible things that
we can do to put an end to this. It seems to me one of the more
simple things that we can address in all of this.
The other question I want to put out there--the testimony
that we heard earlier suggests that it is really easy to fire
somebody who is a whistleblower and really difficult to fire
somebody who is the subject of a whistleblower complaint, to
oversimplify the process. And the one thing that I want to make
sure is, as we make it easier for the VA to hold people
accountable, that we also do not make it easier for the VA to
terminate the employment of those courageous individuals, some
of them temporary employees or probationary employees.
Those are two big questions I want to ask, especially with
this illegal access to veterans' medical records in the context
of whistleblowing. This seems like a straightforward fix. I
would open it up to you to respond.
Dr. Clancy. So as Senator Ernst said very clearly, it is
illegal to do that. It is also painful to hear about,
particularly when the issues related to discrediting a
whistleblower around the issue of having sought care for mental
health problems, if for no other reason than the stigma and the
very fact that someone who works for us would be using that to
discredit someone else at a time when we recognize that as a
huge barrier to reaching all the veterans who need to be
reached, is very painful for me to hear.
Right now, veterans who are employees and use our system,
as one of the earlier witnesses noted, their records are
flagged. So there is no mistake if I stumble into a record of
somebody with the same last name. This is not subtle. I am
going to bring back and we will look into the issue of a two-
step process. That seems to me to be potentially promising. But
beyond that, it cannot be done, that is all, and it has to be--
we can also track who accessed those records.
Ms. Halliday. One of the challenges for the OIG is when
information is inappropriately accessed, we always try to
ensure the veteran's information is protected first, regardless
of whether this is a whistleblower or an individual. In many of
the cases that we have discussed and some of the cases that I
have gone over the past year, veterans' information has been
put at unnecessary risk for using outside systems to process
veterans' personnel information and those inappropriate access
to it.
So I would think that a control that allows for a dual
signature for when a medical record is being accessed would be
very appropriate based on the need to have that information
associated with doing their job.
The second thing is the underlying controls within VA's
system have to have the audit trails turned on, or you really
cannot identify clearly who touched the record. And throughout
many of the OIG reviews, we have found that key audit trails
were turned off. They were turned off in Tomah. They were
turned off in Phoenix. And we have told Office of Information
Technology (OIT) officials they have to be on. You cannot
monitor these 100 percent of the time. There is some
responsibility for the Department to make sure those trails are
in place. You just have to have that in this day when people
can get access to records.
Ms. Lerner. If I could just add a couple of things. In
February, I first notified the VA that it needed to consider a
systemwide corrective action to avoid these types of breaches.
Through our disclosure process, 12 employees have been
disciplined as a result. We have pending investigations in
multiple cases where this is a problem. The VA's position that
we have heard so far is that the searches were justified
because they were just getting demographic information, things
like mailing addresses from the files. Even if that is the
case, the system is broken, and it should be a fairly easy fix.
All they really need to do is make it harder to access these
medical records, put a better lock on the system. Doctors need
to have access to medical records, but colleagues and co-
workers should not.
The second thing is they are storing information right now
so that medical information is commingled with demographic
information. They are using the VistA system for both medical
and personnel information, and that seems to me to be a pretty
easy fix as well.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Senator Baldwin. I just want
to quickly follow-up. Isn't there an easier place to get
addresses other than from medical records?
Ms. Lerner. Well, they have a system for employees who are
not also using the system for medical care, so you would think
they could just use that system.
Chairman Johnson. I mean, there is an alternate system you
can get addresses from, which if you are looking for an
address, you go to that system.
Ms. Lerner. One would think.
Dr. Clancy. There are many systems, and, in fact, right now
there is a group pushing hard to get one reliable source so
that we have contact with all veterans, period.
Chairman Johnson. My point is that excuse I would term a
lie. Senator Carper.
Senator Carper. I want to thank all of you for joining us
today. Carolyn, I do not know if you were in the audience when
I talked about the whistleblowers at Dover Air Force Base and
the great job that you and your team did there making sure that
we found out the truth. And what do they say? The truth will
make us free. As it turns out, you guys played an invaluable
role, and we are grateful for that. I do not know if you were
here when I asked the first panel maybe what is working and
what we should do more of; find out what works and do more of
that. And almost everybody mentioned the work that is being
done in the Office of Special Counsel.
Ms. Halliday, thank you for stopping by and visiting with
me last week with some of your team and mine as well.
Dr. Clancy, I spoke to you by phone this week. I would just
say to my colleagues, we have something in Delaware called the
Delaware Health Information Network, which is just a great way
to get better health care results for less money. It encourages
collaboration and sharing by all kinds of providers all over a
State, and but for Dr. Clancy's support in the early days, that
might not exist. So we thank you for that.
Mr. Culpepper, I do not have anything good to say about
you, but I am sure if I were to dig down, there is a lot I
could say. I just do not know you. But we are glad that you are
here.
I think a lot of times in terms of shared responsibilities
and who is responsible for fixing a problem. In most cases, it
is a shared responsibility. And in our own VA health care
delivery system in Delaware, which I talked about earlier,
where the mother ship is the hospital and the nursing homes
just outside of Wilmington, a town called Elsmere, and we have
two outpatient clinics in our two southern counties. But
sometimes the veterans will tell us when things do not go well,
and I am in and out of our veterans' facilities throughout the
year. My staff is as well. And there is a lot we can learn from
those visits, and we need to do that. So just by our
demonstrating by our presence, it sends a message to the folks
that are running the VA in our States that we care about this.
Families, family members, they contribute. Patients can
tell us if things are not going well. They can tell our staff.
I am going to be meeting with our Veterans of Foreign Wars
(VFW) folks, representatives from Delaware, later this
afternoon, and they are omnipresent, in and out of our hospital
in Elsmere, Delaware. And they hear things that are going well
and those that are not, and they can be very helpful in this.
We have also as a Congress the opportunity through funding
to make sure that we are funding VA health care, writ large,
that we are funding your operation, the Office of Special
Counsel, that we are funding the IG's office. And you have a
huge burden to carry, also to make sure that you heard us
talking about the Senate. We still have too many folks that are
serving as an IG in an acting capacity. God bless you for those
who are willing to do that, but we ought to have Senate-
confirmed IGs, and we are going to keep pressing this
administration until we do.
We have a bunch of committees that have oversight over what
is going on in the VA. We have a VA authorizing committee,
Veterans Administration. We have an Appropriations Subcommittee
whose focus is VA. This Committee is an oversight committee
over the whole Federal Government. That is a whole lot to say
grace over, so it is hard for us to cover every single piece of
that. The Budget Committee has some jurisdiction over this. We
are going to be going through in the next week or so a spending
plan for our country, and the question is: Are we going to hold
harmless the Department of Defense (DOD) budget and for the
non-defense part of our Congress continue to expose many of
those elements to sequestration? Is there some compromise
there? Is there some way to do a deal?
So we have plenty of opportunity ourselves here to try to
effect a better outcome in the health care delivery system. And
we have a bunch of watchdog organizations that have sort of
popped up and are good enough to share information with us and
with others. And then there is the media. So there is a lot of
shared responsibility, and we need to take that seriously.
Here is a short, easy question for each of you, and I will
start with you, Mr. Culpepper, if you do not mind. But just
give us one thing that you think could be done, should be done
to ensure that whistleblowers--we will say just at the VA,
whistleblowers at the VA--are better protected from
retaliation? Either something we are already doing that we need
to do more of, tell us what it is, or something we are not
doing that we should be doing. Please, one thing.
Mr. Culpepper. Thank you, Senator. I think really education
of our workforce, especially our managers. So recently our
Office of General Counsel and our Office of Accountability
Review has actually gone over and got some training from OSC
that we are looking forward very much to rolling out in a much
more robust fashion than just the online training system you
heard from the last panel. Education is key. It is no excuse
for managers that retaliate. It is not tolerated. It will not
be tolerated. But we do need to make sure they are educated so
it happens less frequently.
Senator Carper. All right. Thank you. Dr. Clancy.
Dr. Clancy. I would not disagree with that. I do think that
we need better training for front-line managers, and that is a
pretty high priority for us at the moment.
In addition to that, I think that we need to publicize and
celebrate the good things that come out of people blowing the
whistle. One of our former----
Senator Carper. We did that. We did that, thanks to----
Dr. Clancy. Yes.
Senator Carper. That is what we did at the Dover Air Force
Base.
Dr. Clancy. And I have to say that Deputy Secretary Sloan
Gibson this year, I believe, was the first time--I do not know
if it was in history, but I think in many years; I have not
been at the VA that long--actually attended the OSC Special
Counsel's award ceremony for whistleblowers for VA, which I
think is the right step.
But in addition to that, I think we actually need to make
it really clear: This person blew the whistle, here is what we
learned, and here is why veterans are better off. Because
without that, I do not think we get the cultural change. Other
than that, it feels so uncomfortable that the instinctive
reaction is to withdraw.
Senator Carper. All right. Thanks.
Ms. Halliday, just one example, please.
Ms. Halliday. I think we need to spend our time on the
education on the ranks of the people that are managing these
whistleblower complainants. There is a lack of leadership.
There are clearly problems with how they are addressing
situations. Education there and an investment in how to
properly lead is absolutely necessary.
Senator Carper. All right. Thanks.
Ms. Lerner, please, same question.
Ms. Lerner. Everything they said, but since it has not been
touched on and since it was the subject of my letter last week
to the President and Congress, I think discipline is really key
and has to be an area where we start shifting our focus. We
have done a lot, we have seen a lot of progress, but the one
area that I think remains to be really attacked is discipline.
Senator Johnson said in his statement for this hearing the
touchstone quality that makes any organization successful is
accountability. And that is the missing piece, I think, right
now.
Senator Carper. [Presiding.] Senator Peters, you are next.
Thanks.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PETERS
Senator Peters. Thank you, Senator Carper. And I would like
to thank Chairman Johnson and Ranking Member Carper for holding
this hearing, and I certainly appreciate the testimony from the
witnesses. I think we all agree we heard some very disturbing
testimony earlier this morning about the whistleblower process
and the need to make some significant changes. Certainly as a
country, we are all committed and have a solemn duty to take
care of those who have taken care of us and who have kept us
safe, and that duty certainly includes an obligation to take
care of our Nation's veterans, and the 650,000 veterans that
call my home State of Michigan their home.
But we also have a responsibility to support the VA
employees who serve our Nation's veterans honorably and those
who are willing to come forward to identify problems, despite
the risk. Apparently from what we are hearing, there are
significant risks within the VA to come forward to identify
those problems.
So, with that in mind, Ms. Lerner, you stated in your
testimony that complaints from VA employees make up between 35
and 37 percent of the complaints that your office gets
governmentwide. I mean, those are striking numbers, one agency,
35 to 37 percent. So if you would tell this Committee--and I
know you have mentioned some things, but elaborate--why you
believe the VA accounts for such a large proportion of the
complaints. And that certainly tells us an awful lot about the
culture, but drill down a little bit for me and tell me why
this is just an overwhelming number from the VA.
Ms. Lerner. Sure. And, I think that there are a lot of
possible reasons for the increasing number of complaints. Let
me just give you a few.
First, the VA is really big, and there are a lot of people
who work there who are in health care facilities, so doctors,
nurses, other health care workers who care really deeply about
the mission of the VA, and because of the type of work that
they are doing and because they are seeing people who are not
getting the treatment that they need, they feel obligated to
come forward. So it is an environment that is really ripe for
disclosures.
Second, I think employees may be feeling now in the last
year or two that they could really make a difference, and we
know that the No. 1 reason that whistleblowers do not come
forward is not fear of retaliation, but it is because they do
not believe that it is worth the risk if it is not going to
make a difference. Why expend the time and energy and hope that
goes into filing a complaint if you feel like it is going to
fall on deaf ears?
So if there is a silver lining to the increase in
complaints, it may be that people feel that they are going to
be heard and they believe that their disclosures are going to
be acted upon. And OSC is really getting results. So a third
reason is they are more familiar with my agency, with the
Office of Special Counsel, and they know that they will be
protected from retaliation if they come to us. We have been
doing a lot more outreach and training, and the number of
whistleblowers who are getting relief at our agency is at an
all-time high. We have over 100 corrective actions for VA
employees compared to about 29 cases over the entire government
just 5 years ago. So there has been an exponential growth in
the work that we have been able to do to help whistleblowers.
So, in short, results matter. I think we are getting more
of them. Whistleblowers know that they will make a difference
when they come to us, and so I think it is a combination of
those factors that is causing our increase in filings.
Senator Peters. Thank you.
Ms. Halliday, in your prepared remarks, you also cited some
similar capacity concerns that Ms. Lerner mentioned in her
testimony as well. In fact, you said, ``We receive far more
allegations than we have the resource capacity to review, thus
the OIG must be highly selective in the cases we accept.'' So
could you elaborate for me how you prioritize those cases and
exactly how quickly are they triaged? You obviously have to
have some sort of management of those, and I would just like to
get a sense of how that works.
Ms. Halliday. Yes, I would. We get approximately 40,000 to
42,000 complaints on our hotline annually. We are probably one
of the largest hotlines in the Federal Government, most active.
We look at those complaints. They come in to an intake group
who triages complaint, whether they belong to Criminal
Investigations, have a flavor that a crime has been committed,
or fraud; or they will go to Health Care Inspections if it is a
health care quality of care issue. It would go over to the
audit groups or contract groups, depending upon what the nature
of the complaint.
At that point, the line offices take a very close look at
whether the allegations are clear enough that we can do enough
work to make a difference. In some cases, when a caller asks to
be anonymous and they say, ``It is happening in my health care
facility,'' you might only know where the facility is. You do
not know if it is in surgery or how to drill down in the
allegation. So we try to find enough information that we can
review the complaints. We take all allegations against Senior
Executive Service (SES), which are VA senior executives and
your GS-15 levels, and we take the majority of the allegations
when they have a high risk of financial risk or risk to patient
safety, and it is triaged from that point. We are looking at
that bottom group right now to see is there a way to take more
of these.
Senator Peters. All right. Thank you.
Senator Carper. Thank you, Senator. Senator McCaskill.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MCCASKILL
Senator McCaskill. Thank you.
I have a piece of legislation that would require the firing
of anyone found to be retaliating against whistleblowers. Have
either the Office of Special Counsel or the IG's office found
that there has been retaliation within the Department of
Veterans Affairs against whistleblowers? Have you found
incidents of retaliation?
Ms. Lerner. In our letter, we outlined a number of cases
where employees who blew the whistle were subjected to
disciplinary action, up to and including termination.
Senator McCaskill. And you determined that was, in fact,
retaliation?
Ms. Lerner. I think it is fair to say yes.
Senator McCaskill. OK, and were those people fired, Dr.
Clancy?
Dr. Clancy. Many were disciplined. I do not----
Senator McCaskill. I did not ask that. Were they fired?
Dr. Clancy. I think one person was fired?
Senator McCaskill. Out of how many?
Dr. Clancy. I would have to get you the numbers.
Senator McCaskill. I need the numbers.
Dr. Clancy. Sure.
Senator McCaskill. I need to know if there is a
determination either by the IG or by the Office of Special
Counsel that retaliation has occurred. I need to know how many
instances that determination has been made and someone was
disciplined as opposed to fired. Do you believe if this bill
passes and it requires the firing of someone who retaliates,
that it would have the impact that we are looking for here in
this very troubling area?
Dr. Clancy. So knowing how much work probably went into
developing this legislation, I would actually like to read it
before rendering an opinion. And I am always----
Senator McCaskill. It is simple. It just requires firing.
What about the idea of requiring the firing of an employee who
has been found to retaliate? Do you believe that idea--forget
about the details of the legislation. It is pretty simple. Just
assume it says just that. Do you believe that this is a good
idea?
Dr. Clancy. I believe in serious discipline. I worry a lot
about more fear plummeted onto leaders who right now are
feeling pretty fearful because what they feel like is if
someone raises their hand or there is something that goes wrong
at their facility, instead of saying, ``This is great that you
brought it to me, bring it on, we can solve these problems.''
They are worried that they are going to lose their job.
Senator McCaskill. But isn't that a culture issue, Doctor?
Dr. Clancy. It is a culture issue.
Senator McCaskill. I mean, this is the problem.
Dr. Clancy. Yes.
Senator McCaskill. They are more willing to hide the
problem because they are worried about their bonus or they are
worried about how it is going to look to people above them than
they are the problem.
Dr. Clancy. I agree with you completely.
Senator McCaskill. OK. That is why they have to be fired if
they retaliate.
Dr. Clancy. More firings I worry about. That was the reason
I said reading the details would be helpful.
Senator McCaskill. OK. And I will look forward to your
input after you read it, but I would like the numbers. How many
people who have been found to retaliate were fired?
What if we had a clock, Deputy Inspector General Halliday?
What if we had a clock that if the administration--this is
putting you on the spot. Let me just put this on the record. I
believe it is time to think about having a clock, and if the
administration has not appointed an Inspector General after 6
months at an agency that has 35 percent of the whistleblower
complaints in all of the Federal Government, then Ms. Halliday
gets the job. She becomes the Inspector General because the
administration has failed to act.
I do not know how else to do this. We went for months
without an Inspector General at DOD, which really is a problem,
a huge problem.
Finally, let me just ask this on budgets. Budgets matter. I
assume that if you said in your opening testimony, Ms.
Halliday, that you are one percent of the VA budget, and I
know, Ms. Lerner, your caseload has increased dramatically. I
believe your caseload has increased over the last 5 years by 58
percent. I guarantee you your budget has not increased by 58
percent. I know we are looking at long delays in terms of these
investigations because my office deals with whistleblowers
every day and many of them have waited over a year to have
their complaints looked at.
Tell me what sequestration does to your budget, Ms. Lerner.
Ms. Lerner. So right now I have about 140 employees. We
cover the entire Federal workforce, all civilian workforce more
or less, over 2.1 million employees. During sequestration last
time, we went down to 104 employees. I had to let 15 people go.
Now, I think if we tell Federal employees that they are
going to be protected from retaliation if they come forward and
make disclosures and that those disclosures are really
important, we ought to be able to back that up. I personally
feel really responsible for making sure that when people come
to us, we are able to help them when they need help. It pains
me when they have to wait and when we have to make triaging
decisions about who are we going to help first.
Senator McCaskill. I think we should have a buzzer, and
every time anybody in the Senate talks about that, it is OK to
go to sequestered levels of funding for the budget. We should
ring the buzzer and talk about what comes out of the other side
of their mouth about expecting you not to have any delays when
someone comes forward and files a complaint. You cannot have it
both ways. You cannot expect the VA to do its work well. You
cannot expect the IRS to have customer service. You cannot
expect Inspectors General to do their jobs thoroughly. You
certainly cannot expect whistleblowers to have their cases
adjudicated fairly and in an efficient manner if we are cutting
the money that provides the necessary personnel to do the work.
So I appreciate all of you very much, and I will look
forward to getting the follow-up information from you. I have
more questions for the record, but since we are voting right
now and the vote is just about over, I will say thank you for
your testimony today, and in particular, thank you to the
whistleblowers on the first panel that I was unable to
question.
Senator Carper. Senator McCaskill, thank you so much.
Senator Johnson is going to be back momentarily. He is
voting, and I am going to recess the hearing for just a minute
or two until he arrives.
I again want to thank you all for joining us today, and it
is especially good to see you, Ms. Lerner and Dr. Clancy. Thank
you for the difference you have made in the State of Delaware.
Thank you so much.
Chairman Johnson. [Presiding]. Thank you, Senator Carper,
for holding down the fort here.
I have just got a couple more questions, and I will give
everybody an opportunity at the very end to make a closing
comment.
Dr. Clancy, first of all, let me acknowledge, because this
is true, I think the vast majority of people, doctors, nurses,
administrators, from the lowest part of the organization all
the way to the top, are definitely dedicated individuals doing
everything they can to honor the promises made to the finest
among us. I think that is just basically true, but we obviously
have a systemic problem here, and the question I want to ask to
you is: What is so difficult about holding the people that are
retaliating, that are engaging in reprisals, what is so
difficult about holding those people accountable? Because as
you and I spoke yesterday in my office, there is nothing more
corrosive to an organization than allowing bad apples to just
get away with it and not being able to hold people accountable.
So can you just kind of speak on why is it so easy, on the one
hand, for the retaliators to retaliate and get away with it
versus holding people accountable from the top of the agency
down?
Dr. Clancy. So I do not think it is that difficult. I think
what is difficult is that it takes time to get all the facts
together. It is rare that a story of retaliation is pure black
and white. For example, people who are frustrated because they
feel like they have been trying to make their voices heard and
may not have been effectively doing so; people were not
listening, their issues were blown off, may not always behave
in a wonderful manner.
Supervisors do retain a responsibility to hold people
accountable for the various functions of their job. We have
heard some examples today which I think are horrifying. I agree
with you on that. But there are other times when it is a little
bit harder to sort out the actual facts.
So if there is a fair process, people should be held
accountable, period. But I think the process needs to be fair,
or people will be overwhelmed by fear.
Chairman Johnson. Again, having managed people for 30-some
years, I understand the gray areas and sometimes the difficult
nature of getting to the truth. But do you believe that we are
holding people properly accountable?
Dr. Clancy. No. And we are taking too long to do it, and we
are committed to doing better on that front.
Chairman Johnson. Ms. Lerner, I would kind of like your
assessment on that same question.
Ms. Lerner. Well, the reason that I wrote this letter to
the President last week is because of these very concerns. We
have learned that even in cases where the VA has substantiated
wrongdoing by officials that implicates patient health and
safety issues, the VA has done very little to impose
discipline. Sometimes, they will do a slap on the wrist or a
written reprimand. But very little is done to those who are
responsible.
Chairman Johnson. But let me ask you, what is your
assessment, your judgment of why that is? I know I am asking
for an opinion here, but, why do you think that is?
Ms. Lerner. I am speculating. It is hard----
Chairman Johnson. I am asking you to speculate.
Ms. Lerner. But, the folks who are in positions of power
and authority are higher up along the food chain, and the folks
who are getting the punishment and the discipline tend to be
lower on the food chain. And I think that, there may be more of
a reluctance and resistance to go after folks who are more
powerful in the organization.
I can tell you that headquarters VA, when I have had
conversations with the Deputy Secretary and the General Counsel
and the folks in Accountability and Review, the folks in D.C.
really, I think, understand the importance of discipline and
holding people accountable. They get it. The problem is it is
down in the regions, and the regional counsel who have to
enforce the disciplinary actions and bring them that are
reluctant to do so. That is my sense, is that the problem is
not at headquarters. It is really down at either the individual
facilities or in the regions. And the regional counsel just are
not willing to go after folks. But I do not have independent
evidence of that.
Chairman Johnson. And, again, I have had enough contact
with Dr. Clancy, who I think is a very good person. I think
your heart is in the right place. But it does speak--it really
is a top management problem. I mean, top management is going to
have to enforce that middle layer where we are not holding
people accountable. That is what is going to be required. And,
again, from my standpoint, it is going to require an
independent and transparent Office of Inspector General to
provide that information to the public, to Congress, to put the
pressure so that actually happens. Dr. Clancy.
Dr. Clancy. Yes, the one point I was going to add is I
think one of the challenges we have, not just in this arena but
in almost every aspect of what we do, is enormous variability.
It is a huge system. We meet veterans' needs wherever they
happen to choose to reside in this country and a few other
places. And I think the issue of discipline is not different
from other areas.
So when then-Acting Secretary Sloan Gibson created the
Office of Accountability and Review, a very, very big goal was
to make sure that there was a far more consistent process. And
I think that that is starting to work, but as I said, we need
to pick up the pace.
Chairman Johnson. Let me ask another question, because I
think this is just a real problem. When somebody would come to
me kind of leaping over layers of management with a complaint,
it is difficult to deal with because how do you go and take
care of it without kind of tipping off the manager who just
might engage in retaliation? And certainly what we heard in
testimony is that individuals have come to the Inspector
General's office and/or the
Office of Special Counsel, frequently those complaints are
heard and then they are turned right back over to the agency,
thereby--maybe not revealing the name, but, people are smart
and they certainly can make assumptions.
Ms. Lerner, I would like your assessment of to what extent
that is a problem, and what can we do to correct that?
Ms. Lerner. When whistleblowers come to us, they have the
option of remaining anonymous. It is not as effective sometimes
because we really like when we refer a case for investigation
for the IG or the Office of Medical Inspector to actually
interview the whistleblower. So it is not ideal when they stay
anonymous. But they can. They can remain anonymous.
Chairman Johnson. And then you do not go back to the agency
or the department, correct?
Ms. Lerner. No; we still do. We still do, absolutely. And
you are right, sometimes they can still be identified, but not
always. When we send our letters, when we send our referrals to
the agency for investigation, we have language in there that
specifically says we expect you to take steps to make sure that
no retaliation occurs. And the minute we get a phone call from
one of our whistleblowers saying, ``OK, they found out who I
am, and I am being retaliated against,'' we then take action.
We are on it. We do the best we can. And we can get stays of
disciplinary action. We have been very active doing so, both
informal stays and formal stays. Generally, if we contact the
VA and let them know that someone is being retaliated against,
they have been pretty good about holding off on taking
disciplinary action. But it should not require the Office of
Special Counsel to get involved.
Chairman Johnson. Ms. Halliday, why don't you speak to that
potential problem?
Ms. Halliday. I consider one of the major risks to the OIG
and to the Department is our ability not to take all of the
complaints that come in and process them. I think that there is
a fear with whistleblowers and a perception that VA will not be
fair in the process as complaints are reviewed and fear of
potentially disclosure of their confidentiality. We are
probably in the best position to review but it is a resource
issue given the volume that has come in post-Phoenix on these
complaints.
But I think that my executive staff clearly sees that as
the major risk, and if we can work to get more controls over
those more serious complaints that are coming into our office
that absolutely need OIG's independent review, I think that it
goes a long way to help the Department and it helps veterans.
Chairman Johnson. So I appreciate Senator Ayotte coming
here, but I will beg her indulgence for one final question,
because you raised the issue that I wanted to ask this question
about, the overwhelming nature of the volume of complaints
coming in. How overwhelming is it? Ms. Lerner, you gave us some
sense of that. But I would like both of you to kind of speak to
the volume coming in, how you are trying to deal with it, how
you try to prioritize the complaints, and what are you going to
do with these? We will start with you, Ms. Lerner.
Ms. Lerner. Sure. We are inundated and overwhelmed with
complaints from the VA making up about 35 to 40 percent of our
total caseload. As you said, we have gotten about 1,400
prohibited personnel practice complaints, most of which are
retaliation; about 2,000 disclosures from the VA. So we are
overwhelmed.
What we have done is set up our own sort of triage system.
We have a senior counsel who is assigned to just the
retaliation cases and working with the Office of Accountability
Review at the VA to work on expedited settlements. We have
worked with the VA to set up this expedited settlement process
so that cases that have a lot of merit that we can identify
quickly do not have to go through the full investigation
process.
We have a VA team at the Office of Special Counsel that
meets once a week and talks about the VA cases. I get updates
every week on every new VA retaliation case that is filed. So
we are doing everything we can to make these a priority.
That being said, we truly are overwhelmed and wish we could
do a lot more.
Chairman Johnson. And, again, you are just dealing with the
retaliation on whistleblowers. Ms. Halliday, then your office
is dealing with all the whistleblower complaints.
Ms. Lerner. Well, we also deal with disclosures, too. So
there are two tracks: one is disclosures of waste, fraud,
wrongdoing, health and safety issues; and then also the
retaliation cases.
Chairman Johnson. OK. Ms. Halliday, tell me about the
caseload that you are dealing with here.
Ms. Halliday. The caseload now is about 40,000 to 42,000
contacts a year. As I said earlier, the OIG VA's hotline, is
one of the largest in the Federal Government, and the types of
complaints that we get in are diverse. We have done exactly
what OSC has done to perform better triage to make sure that we
are gleaning out enough information at the complaint intake
stage that we can understand the seriousness of the complaint
so that we can process it effectively.
Chairman Johnson. So how many of 42,000, how many do you
view as serious enough to actually take action on?
Ms. Halliday. The number is very low, and that is why I
have asked my hotline team to divide up for me exactly what is
in the 40,000 contacts so I can take a look at it by risk. I
would say the last numbers I thought I saw was 3,200 or so
complaints were actually taken in the last fiscal year. So you
can see the delta is huge.
Chairman Johnson. You have how many people adjudicating
those complaints or looking into those?
Ms. Halliday. Well, it is spread over three different
directorates, depending upon if it is criminal, health care, or
audit, and that would represent about 660 performing all OIG
requirements.
Chairman Johnson. OK.
Senator Ayotte, I apologize, but you are up.
Senator Ayotte. Thank you, Chairman.
I wanted to, first of all, associate myself with the
comments that Senator McCaskill made earlier. It is just absurd
that it has been 631 days that we have not had a permanent
Inspector General at the VA, and I will join--I have written
numerous times to the President of the United States, but if
the President really cares about getting this right, then he
will nominate a permanent Inspector General. And I think it
says a lot, unfortunately, that people on both sides of the
aisle have asked him to do that, and we are 631 days into it,
and I think our men and women in uniform deserve better than
that so that you can have permanent leadership on this very
important oversight issue.
And I agree with Senator McCaskill. If the IG positions are
going to go vacant, then, I previously also sponsored the
Vacant IG Act that she and Senator Boozman have introduced that
would put Congress in a position to actually nominate these
positions if the executive branch abdicates its responsibility.
I wanted to follow-up on the wait lists because, Dr.
Clancy, the VA, of course, with what we went through last
summer with the revelations of the wait list and the
manipulated wait list and veterans literally who died waiting
for care, and you talked about the fact that the VA is making
progress. But as I understand it--there have been different
estimates--only a handful of people have actually been fired as
a result of what happened. And I regularly hear from veterans
in New Hampshire who are really frustrated with the lack of
action and accountability. And we heard that earlier with our
panel of whistleblowers who felt that there was no
accountability for the people who were not doing their jobs in
serving veterans.
What is being done in terms of this accountability issue?
Why hasn't there been more accountability over the wait list
manipulations?
Dr. Clancy. So, first, I want to emphasize that since this
whole scandal broke out, we have taken the issue extremely
seriously and have literally for over a year sat down with the
Deputy Secretary every single day of the week to go over data,
to look at which facilities are having the worst time, and
often bringing them in by videoconference to find out what is
the problem, what is the barrier, how can we help and so forth.
No senior leaders got bonuses. No one can have in their
performance plan performance metrics related to wait times and
so forth. And what we found was that we provided a lot more
care, both within VA through extended hours and so forth, and
also buying it.
Senator Ayotte. But just so we are clear for the record,
because I have a separate bill on this clawback of the bonuses
issue, there were many people who received bonuses who are in
positions where, unfortunately, they were engaged in this
issue. And, obviously, they received them, and so that is why
Senator McCaskill and I actually have a bill to claw that back.
But please go on.
Dr. Clancy. Yes. Well, I was speaking for 2014 because
Secretary McDonald came in 2014, so that had been already
declared by his predecessor, and Secretary McDonald carried
that through. And, very importantly, I think the shift was
toward do not hide this information, tell us. Tell us how we
can help. Do you need more space? Do you need more people? How
is it that we at headquarters can actually help you address
some of these barriers and so forth? So we have seen facilities
all across the system step up to this challenge, but we have
also seen increasing demand as we have gotten better at getting
veterans in to be seen. Either in our system, virtually by
telehealth, or by buying care in the community, more and more
veterans have come in. So we are still working this hard, and I
have to say it is the No. 1 priority for our new Under
Secretary, Dr. David Shulkin. So we are working that very, very
hard.
As you know, or I think are likely to be aware, there was a
huge array of investigations brought. Some are still ongoing. I
would have to get back to you with numbers so that I am really
confident about how many senior leaders are still under
investigation for wait list issues. It has taken quite a bit of
time.
Senator Ayotte. Well, I would appreciate it, and I think
that for all of us, there is great frustration in not hearing
the accountability. And so it is great to look at data.
Dr. Clancy. Yes.
Senator Ayotte. But real people were involved,
unfortunately----
Dr. Clancy. Absolutely.
Senator Ayotte [continuing]. In manipulating these wait
lists, and when you think about the people not being held fully
accountable at all levels of the VA for this atrocity, what it
does is it sends a message through the organization, through
these other cases we have heard about, that is one, to Ms.
Lerner's point, of not accountability at each level. And if you
are not held accountable for what happened with these wait
lists, I mean, what will people be held accountable for I think
is a question. So I think all of us want to see more
accountability and more people being held accountable, and, by
the way, the people who are doing a good job rewarded, and
instead of being in a position where they bring misconduct to
light, supported by saying let us work to solve the problem
that you brought to light, as we heard from our earlier panel.
Dr. Clancy. Yes, and I was not, I hope, contradicting that,
and we will get you an up-to-date accounting of where all this
stands. I was just acknowledging that thorough investigations
take time, and really our first priority was to make sure that
veterans got seen as soon as possible--in other words, to
address the patient care issue and then get into the
accountability. And, frankly, how do we get there? The
Secretary through his efforts has really led a number of other
important areas, really strongly encouraging, actually
requiring facility leaders to get out and talk to the clerks on
a regular basis.
Senator Ayotte. So I know my time has expired, but Ms.
Lerner testified that, as I understand it, if I am correct in
this, 35 to 40 percent of the complaints you receive just
pertain to the VA?
Ms. Lerner. That is correct.
Senator Ayotte. And this is across the whole of government,
correct?
Ms. Lerner. Yes.
Senator Ayotte. Well, that is a huge number. So I guess
what I also want to understand is what are we doing in terms of
looking at the number of complaints systematically in terms of
what issues they repeatedly raise and making sure that there is
systematic change being driven by the huge volume that clearly
speaks for itself as you look at the whole of government for
Ms. Lerner to be receiving 35 to 40 percent from, one agency.
Dr. Clancy. Well, I think Ms. Lerner--and if I misquote
you, please speak up--did acknowledge that there might be a bit
of a silver lining there, and I would actually agree with that,
if people actually do feel free to contact her office. But,
ultimately, there are a lot of other ways that people can make
their voices heard.
Senator Ayotte. So, systematically, what are you doing with
this? Let us say you have whatever percentage of whistleblower
issues, of retaliation, whatever percentage in terms of waiting
for care. I am just coming up with different categories. What
is the VA leadership and at all levels doing to incorporate the
complaints? Obviously, individually they need to be
investigated, but systematically, how is that feedback being
addressed by the VA?
Dr. Clancy. Systematically, certainly we address the
feedback once the whole set of investigations has been
completed, but in addition to that, we are not waiting for
that. We are also looking at data all the time. And we have
identified a tool and built a tool to let supervisors and
front-line managers as well as their directors know if there
are scheduling irregularities. This is not saying that you are
wrong. What it is saying is we are seeing something in the data
that looks really funky here; you need to go look at it. And we
are encouraging a lot of engagement with front-line employees
so that we can hear from them directly.
We also look at things as to whether people report issues
of patient safety that do not actually go to the Office of
Special Counsel. We have seen an increase in that this past
year, which I actually think is a good thing if we are acting
to follow-up on it and address those issues.
Senator Ayotte. Well, Mr. Chairman, as you know, we could
be on this topic for a long period, but this is something--I
can think of no more important issue for this Committee to
address in terms of more accountability, and obviously the
issues we heard earlier with the panel on the whistleblowers as
well and support for them within this organization. And so I
look forward to working with you on this.
Chairman Johnson. Thanks, Senator Ayotte.
Again, I will give everybody an opportunity to make a
closing comment. Before I do that, I do want to talk to Dr.
Clancy. This is really a subject for another hearing, but I
would be interested in Senator Ayotte confirming this as well.
I am hearing repeatedly from veterans that their requests for
the Veterans Choice Act are being denied. And, again, I just
want to say I appreciate your willingness to take up a
particular case. I cannot really reveal the individual's name.
I am not sure we have the disclosure yet. But this is a Vietnam
era veteran who early in August was diagnosed with Stage IV
pancreatic cancer, really cannot travel the 120-plus miles to
where the VA tells him he needs to get treated, and his request
for treatment closer in a very high-quality private sector
hospital in Green Bay is still being denied.
It is an issue I am hearing repeatedly. They are
adjudicating every one of these issues, but I really do want to
make sure that you are aware that it is a real complaint I am
hearing, but I truly appreciate you being willing to take a
look at this one particular case, because this gentleman's time
is precious, and it really does need taking a look at, so thank
you very much for doing that. With that----
Dr. Clancy. Let me just say very briefly, we have been
buying more and more care in the community over the past 10 to
12 years, and what we have gotten to is a place where we have
six or seven different pathways to do that, including the new
Veterans Choice Act. We will by November 1 be bringing a plan
to the Congress to say we are integrating them all into one,
which I think is going to be a very big step toward our
becoming a high-performing network where VA focuses on what we
do really, really well and relies on community partners to
actually help us with those other issues.
Chairman Johnson. And I do think that really should be the
long-term direction. I realize this is not easy, but, again, I
appreciate your efforts there.
We will start with you, Dr. Clancy, if you would like to
make a closing comment.
Dr. Clancy. Again, I want to express profound appreciation
because we need to hear from employees all the time. I think of
whistleblowers as one end of the spectrum, and if they feel
like they need to exercise that option, then we should take
that with the utmost seriousness. We are, but we need to pick
up the pace.
But we also need to have many, many different outlets for
employees and, frankly, we need to thank them when they speak
up about those concerns and make that clear to others. We have
started down this path. I am confident that we are going to get
there, because I think Secretary McDonald and all of our
leadership want nothing less.
Chairman Johnson. Thank you, Dr. Clancy. Ms. Halliday.
Ms. Halliday. Yes, I definitely am trying to change the
culture within the OIG to make sure that we reward
whistleblowers when they come forward. I see the risks to them,
to their career, as significant. I know as an IG we have to
look at all the underlying facts, weigh the evidence, but it is
so important for us to do that. I want veterans, I want VA
employees to have trust in the OIG. I know they come to us for
help, and they deserve nothing less.
Chairman Johnson. Well, I appreciate that.
I also want to make sure that you look at this Committee as
an ally in that type of transparency, trying to accomplish your
task and making sure that whistleblowers are not retaliated
against. Again, I would ask you to work with us in our
investigation, complying with the subpoena that has been issued
that is not
yet--again, we are all concerned about private health care
information. We are willing to work with you. But we really do
need to get this information.
Ms. Halliday. We are working it. Your suggestion to work
with Mr. Michael Horowitz at DOJ was a very good one. I have
followed through, and we have gone through several of the
obstacles. There are still a few remaining. And I have no
problem working with Mr. Brewer and his team.
Chairman Johnson. To the extent of your good faith, I would
say you still have a problem within the organization that
continues to be a road block. That is just my honest assessment
of it. Ms. Lerner.
Ms. Lerner. We have heard some terrible stories today, a
lot of negative information, but I wanted to say I feel very
optimistic that we are on the right path forward. The message
from the VA leadership over the last year and a half has been
very consistently positive and supportive of whistleblowers.
The Secretary and Deputy Secretary are meeting with
whistleblowers when they go out to facilities, and I think
those are really positive signs, and it is going to trickle
down, I hope, to the regions and the facilities. And
identifying the problem is really the first step. They say
light is the best disinfectant, and shining light on the
problem is terrific. Working in partnership with this
Committee, I am really confident that we can solve this
problem, and I look forward to working with you in doing so and
working with the VA and doing so.
Chairman Johnson. Well, thank you. One thing I always
repeat--this is from my business background--is try and find
the areas of agreement, and I think what you are seeing here is
there is obviously enormous agreement that we have a problem
here. There is also an enormous agreement that we do need to
honor the promises to the finest among us.
So working with this Committee, working with the Office of
Special Counsel, the Office of Inspector General, and the VA
system, we need to address this problem. We need to come up
with solutions. We need to act. And so, again, the commitment
from this Committee is to work with you in good faith to find
those solutions to honor those promises. Let us, again,
concentrate on the areas of agreement that unite us rather than
exploit the division. So that is certainly my commitment.
Again, I want to thank all of you, all the witnesses for
their thoughtful testimony, their thoughtful answers to our
questions.
The hearing record will remain open for 15 days until
October 7th at 5 p.m. for the submission of statements and
questions for the record.
This hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:44 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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