[Senate Hearing 114-594]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 114-594
NOMINATION OF ANDREW MAYOCK
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
NOMINATION OF ANDREW MAYOCK TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR MANAGEMENT,
OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET
__________
JUNE 28, 2016
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COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin Chairman
JOHN McCAIN, Arizona THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware
ROB PORTMAN, Ohio CLAIRE McCASKILL, Missouri
RAND PAUL, Kentucky JON TESTER, Montana
JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin
MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota
KELLY AYOTTE, New Hampshire CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
JONI ERNST, Iowa GARY C. PETERS, Michigan
BEN SASSE, Nebraska
Christopher R. Hixon, Staff Director
Gabrielle D'Adamo Singer, Deputy Chief Counsel for Governmental Affairs
Nathan R. Kaczmarek, Counsel, Subcommittee on Regulatory Affairs
and Federal Management
Gabrielle A. Batkin, Minority Staff Director
John P. Kilvington, Minority Deputy Staff Director
Katherine C. Sybenga, Minority Chief Counsel for Governmental Affairs
Brian F. Papp, Jr., Minority Professional Staff Member
Ellen W. Harrington, Minority Professional Staff Member
Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk
Benjamin C. Grazda, Hearing Clerk
C O N T E N T S
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Opening statements:
Page
Senator Lankford............................................. 1
Senator Carper............................................... 2
Senator Ayotte............................................... 6
Senator Peters............................................... 8
Senator Ernst................................................ 13
Senator Heitkamp............................................. 18
Prepared statement:
Senator Lankford............................................. 23
Senator Carper............................................... 24
WITNESSES
Tuesday, June 28, 2016
Andrew Mayock to be Deputy Director for Management, Office of
Management and Budget
Testimony.................................................... 4
Prepared statement........................................... 26
Biographical and financial information....................... 28
Letter from the Office of Government Ethics.................. 45
Responses to pre-hearing questions........................... 47
NOMINATION OF ANDREW MAYOCK
TUESDAY, JUNE 28, 2016
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Homeland Security
and Governmental Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 4:07 p.m., in
room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. James
Lankford, presiding.
Present: Senators Lankford, Ayotte, Ernst, Carper,
McCaskill, Tester, Heitkamp, Booker, and Peters.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANKFORD
Senator Lankford. Good afternoon. Today we will consider
the nomination of Mr. Andrew Mayock for the position of Deputy
Director for Management at the Office of Management and Budget
(OMB).
OMB's role in evaluating agency policies and setting
funding priorities is vital for good government. It is
important to have qualified leaders at OMB to ensure that the
Executive Branch agencies operate effectively.
Andrew Mayock is a native of Rockford, Illinois. He
received his undergraduate degree from the University of
Illinois, a Master's of Public Administration from the Harvard
Kennedy School of Government, and a law degree from George
Washington University (GWU). Mr. Mayock has a distinguished
career as a public servant, including serving as Special
Assistant to the Chief of Staff at the Department of the
Treasury; as Deputy Vice President, Millennium Challenge
Corporation; and for the past 3 years, he has held several
senior positions at OMB.
Mr. Mayock has also served in the private sector as a
senior associate for development and international diplomacy at
Booz Allen Hamilton and as an international trade consultant at
Harvard University's Center for Business and Government.
In addition to this impressive resume, Mr. Mayock possesses
the necessary experience and legal and policy background to
serve at OMB.
Committee staff reached out to a variety of Mr. Mayock's
colleagues and affiliates who spoke highly of his judgment and
abilities. Committee staff also had the opportunity to
interview Mr. Mayock on an array of issues. He has thoughtfully
and competently answered each question to our satisfaction.
To date, the Committee has found you to be qualified for
the position you have been nominated to, and I look forward to
speaking with you more today about your experience and
accomplishments and how you intend to apply them as the Deputy
Director for Management.
We have also had the opportunity to be able to sit in my
office and be able to visit for a while and be able to talk
through key issues in preparation for this conversation today.
I look forward to finishing up that conversation and other
questions. I also look forward to you publicly introducing your
family, which I hope you will take advantage of the time when I
recognize you in a moment to be able to do that in the moments
ahead.
I would recognize the Ranking Member, Senator Carper, if
you would like to make an opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER
Senator Carper. I would. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
It is great to see you, your wife, particularly to see your
mom, your father-in-law, your kids, and other friends and
extended family. I remember a number of years ago when someone
brought in young children to, I think it was, their mom's
confirmation hearing, and it was for a very demanding job. And
I said sort of lightheartedly to the kids, ``Well, say good-bye
to your mom because you will not see her again until
Christmas.'' [Laughter.]
At that point, I thought they were going to run out of the
room and take their mom with them. It was not quite----
Senator Lankford. And later they found out you were
correct. [Laughter.]
Senator Carper. It was not quite that bad, but it was
interesting. So you will get to see your dad as much as you
want to. And you will get to see your wife every night for
dinner--well, maybe not. [Laughter.]
But we are delighted you are all here. These jobs actually
that we have and that you have, there is a lot of hard work,
and I just want to say to your mom, thanks to you, and to your
dad for raising you and imparting the kind of values that are
clearly identifiable and recognizable today. To your wife, it
is great to have you here and for your willingness to share
your husband. And you have two really sweet kids, and it is
great that they are here.
I would never, as I said to them earlier before you
arrived, I would never have brought in a 1-year-old and maybe a
3-year-old to my confirmation hearing, and it is either an
extraordinary demonstration of your calmness or maybe how well
behaved your children are. I am not sure which it is.
But, in any event, all of that notwithstanding, OMB has a
mission that is near and dear to our hearts on this Committee.
We are really interested in performance, and we are interested
in a government that functions well and cost-effectively.
As we all know, OMB plays a number of critical roles,
including the formulating of our agency budgets and overseeing
management issues that span literally the entire Federal
Government. The office, and particularly the position that Mr.
Mayock has been nominated to fill, plays an important role in
helping agencies tackle serious challenges such as the upcoming
Presidential transition, improper payments of over $100 billion
per year, real property management issues, information
technology (IT) management, and improving performance across
government, to name just a few.
I am pleased that the President has chosen to nominate you,
Mr. Mayock. And in addition to many other important jobs in
this administration, I understand that you recently served as
the Associate Director for General Government Programs at OMB.
This position has provided you with a background in Federal
budgeting that gives you, I think, a different perspective than
many of your predecessors. And I think it will serve you well
as you lead, hopefully lead, the management side at OMB.
Simply put, Mr. Mayock has the opportunity to help unite
the budget and management side of the office, and I believe
that could be especially valuable. His nomination also comes at
a time when the Administration is in its final 7 months. It is
not like they are turning the lights out and leaving tomorrow,
but 7 months to go. Some may think that means it is not
critical to take action to confirm him. I disagree with that
sentiment, and obviously so do the others on this Committee.
One of the greatest virtues of our Nation is the peaceful
transition of power from one President to the next. I will
never forget being in Central America at a Presidential summit
hosted by the President of Costa Rica, Oscar Arias, who later
won the Nobel Peace Prize. We had Presidents from all the
Central American countries that were there. I think it was the
President of Guatemala who said to me--this was probably the
late 1980s. He said, ``In your country you take for granted
that every 4 years you will have an election. Somebody will
win, somebody will lose. And whoever wins becomes the President
of your country.'' He said, ``That has never happened in my
country.''
So we take this for granted, and we should not, but there
is a big challenge that lies ahead, and you are a big part of
this with respect to this transition, and we appreciate your
willingness to tackle that as well.
One of the significant pieces of legislation that we have
enacted here this year was something called the ``Edward `Ted'
Kaufman and Michael Leavitt Presidential Transitions
Improvements Act'' which became law earlier this year. That act
incorporates many of the lessons learned from the Obama and
Romney transition teams. And we look forward to learning more
today about preparations for the upcoming transition and, more
importantly, your role, if you are confirmed, with the Agency
Transition Directors Council and the steps that are being taken
at OMB to try to ensure a seamless transition of power.
Again, we thank you for being here. We look forward to
talking with you today and hopefully to working with you in the
months to come. Thank you so much.
Senator Lankford. It is the custom of the Committee to
swear in all witnesses that appear before us. So if you do not
mind, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear that
the testimony you are about to give before this Committee will
be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you, God?
Mr. Mayock. I do.
Senator Lankford. Thank you. You may be seated. Let the
record reflect the witness answered in the affirmative.
Mr. Mayock, once again I would encourage you to be able to
introduce your family, but we would be very pleased to be able
to receive your opening statement, and then we will followup
with some questions here from the dais after that. Mr. Mayock.
TESTIMONY OF ANDREW MAYOCK,\1\ NOMINEE TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR
FOR MANAGEMENT, OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET
Mr. Mayock. Thank you, Senator Lankford. Thank you, Ranking
Member Carper and Members of the Committee, Senator Booker.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Mayock appears in the Appendix on
page 26.
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I am truly honored to be considered by this Committee as
President Obama's nominee for Deputy Director for Management of
the Office of Management and Budget.
I am grateful to have my family here with me this
afternoon. I am deeply appreciative for their support and
encouragement. And as for introductions, I have my wonderful
86-year-old mother right behind me, Anne; my lovely wife,
Cindy; my father-in-law, Steel. On his lap are our young son,
Tai, who is about to turn 1 year old; and Mariella on the end.
I am really delighted for them to be here, and thank you,
Senator Carper, for your confidence in them. [Laughter.]
And your confidence in me.
I would initially like to recognize three of my seven
siblings who are here today--Chris, Joe, and John--and their
spouses and children have joined us.
Senator Carper. Would they raise their hands, please? OK.
Mr. Mayock. There is the Mayock section. [Laughter.]
My parents instilled the value of public service in all of
their children, and I am proud to represent my parents and my
siblings today at this hearing.
I want to thank President Obama for nominating me to this
position. It remains an extraordinary honor to continue to
serve this administration since I started in 2009. I would also
like to thank OMB Director Shaun Donovan for his confidence in
me. And I also appreciate the continued trust and support of
all my colleagues at the extraordinary institution that is OMB,
where I have served for the last 3 years.
Furthermore, I appreciate the Members of this Committee and
their staff for taking the time to meet with me prior to this
hearing. If confirmed, I look forward to working closely
together in the coming months and building on the important
relationship that OMB has with this Committee.
The Deputy Director for Management position helps lead the
President's Management Agenda, a comprehensive and forward-
looking plan to modernize and improve government to ultimately
deliver faster, better, and smarter services to citizens and
businesses. The President's Management Agenda is built on four
pillars: effectiveness, efficiency, economy, and people and
culture. The administration is implementing these through a
series of Cross-Agency Priority Goals, which were introduced by
this administration to improve coordination across multiple
agencies to drive performance and accountability.
If confirmed, I plan to build on the progress made by this
administration. I believe that the actions under the four
pillars and the related Cross-Agency Priority Goals have led to
measurable progress. For example, this administration has
launched successful efforts to modernize and improve citizen-
facing services, reduce the Federal real property footprint,
improve how we buy as a government, and eliminate wasteful
spending.
If confirmed, I would also seek to improve other
initiatives in which the Deputy Director for Management is a
front-line leader, including Federal cybersecurity, supporting
digital services delivery to citizens, improving the
infrastructure permitting processes, and enhancing the
background investigations and security clearance process, to
name a few.
Furthermore, the Deputy Director for Management plays an
important role, as Senator Carper noted, on the
administration's commitment to a smooth Presidential
transition. This includes implementing the statutory
requirements of the Ted Kaufman and Michael Leavitt
Presidential Transitions Improvements Act of 2015, as noted.
Under this act, the Deputy Director for Management facilitates
agency planning efforts, including co-chairing the Agency
Transition Director's Council comprised of 19 of the
government's largest agencies. If confirmed, I would focus on
supporting a seamless transition.
I believe my background in the public and private sectors
helps prepare me for the role of Deputy Director for
Management. This experience includes senior leadership roles,
as noted--Associate Director of General Government Programs and
Senior Adviser for Management--where I have worked with Cabinet
agencies and others on a wide variety of budget, policy, and
operational issues. My experience in senior leadership roles at
the U.S. Department of the Treasury and the Millennium
Challenge Corporation provide valuable agency operational
experience and perspective regarding the governmentwide
management challenges and opportunities that the Deputy
Director for Management faces.
Additionally, in my private sector work at Booz Allen
Hamilton, I gained experience in generating performance
improvements through process streamlining, improving deployment
of technology, and strengthening organizational effectiveness.
This combined experience offers a strong foundation for
delivering on the President's Management Agenda and the
requirements of this office.
Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, I would be
pleased to answer any questions you have.
Senator Lankford. Thank you, Mr. Mayock.
We have three quick mandatory questions, and then Senator
Carper and I are going to defer our questions to the end
because we each have 25 minutes of questions for you, and so we
are going to go ahead and do that at the end. [Laughter.]
But there are three quick mandatory questions, and then I
will recognize Senator Ayotte for her questions.
Is there anything that you are aware of in your background
that might present a conflict of interest with the duties of
the office to which you have been nominated?
Mr. Mayock. No.
Senator Lankford. Do you know of anything, personal or
otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and
honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to
which you have been nominated?
Mr. Mayock. No.
Senator Lankford. Do you agree without reservation to
comply with any request or summons to appear and testify before
any duly constituted Committee of Congress if you are
confirmed?
Mr. Mayock. Yes, I do.
Senator Lankford. Thank you. I would recognize Senator
Ayotte for her questions.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AYOTTE
Senator Ayotte. Thank you, Chairman. I want to thank you,
Mr. Mayock, for being here and for your willingness to serve in
this position, and your family as well.
I wanted to ask, OMB has taken significant steps to better
manage IT investments, and that has been an issue that this
Committee has been very interested in. This is really important
since the Federal Government is projected to spend more than
$80 billion this year on IT, and we passed out of this
Committee and into law a bill called the ``Federal Data Center
Consolidation Act.'' And that bill focuses on the agency's
requirements for data center consolidations and optimization
plans to do that. And we believe--I think this is a very
bipartisan bill--that there is a lot of cost savings we could
achieve with that, and better performance measures.
So OMB has stated that it is working to close thousands of
Federal data centers that could be consolidated, and I
certainly applaud those efforts. But I also want to point out
that the Government Accountability Office (GAO) has recently
cautioned that OMB must remain dedicated to actively overseeing
the Federal agencies' data center consolidations and that there
are more savings that can be realized. And some agencies, like
the Department of Defense (DOD), are really aggressively going
at this in terms of consolidation and others that have reported
little or no progress, so there seems to be a gap in agency-
wide.
So what actions will you take to realize the billions of
dollars in savings in this area and to make sure that we
appropriately consolidate data centers and also make sure that
savings is important, but we also want to make sure that we are
having this happen across agencies versus some agencies really
going quickly, some really not embracing this concept?
Mr. Mayock. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the
opportunity to respond to that question and highlight the
efforts that OMB is undertaking to date and am committed, if
confirmed, to working with you and members of the Committee on
staying on top of this issue and making further progress on
this issue.
Broadly writ, I would say a few things regarding the data
center consolidation. One is, as I referred to the President's
Management Agenda in my opening statement, this is our No. 1
priority in the President's Management Agenda: delivering
smarter IT. One of the tools that we received from Congress to
help deliver on that promise, that agenda item, is the funding
that we receive through the Information Technology Oversight
and Reform (ITOR) piece of the budget, and that has allowed the
office of the Federal Chief Information Officer (CIO) to bring
on staff that oversees--who are deeply knowledgeable in IT and
who work with the budget staff in OMB to closely oversee
agencies' budgets and agencies' IT operations. That, in
addition to the tool that this Congress has provided OMB
through the passing of the Federal Information Technology
Acquisition Reform Act (FITARA) has created a powerful
framework for OMB to make progress on that and to deliver on
that.
To date, we have delivered $3.8 billion in savings through
that work. About half of that savings is through the data
center consolidation. I think you quite accurately assessed
that we have more work to do, that there are agencies
throughout the Federal Government. I think that we are in a
position now 2 or 3 years into ITOR funding and building the
resources with OMB and working with the budget side of OMB to
do a better job of overseeing those agency partners and working
with those agency partners to deliver on those savings.
The last thing I would note, Senator, is the role that our
partner and colleagues at the GAO play, as you noted. We work
closely with them. This is on the high-risk list, as you know,
and we appreciate their views, and their suggestions and their
partnership also helps us in being able to work with agencies
to deliver more and better on this agenda item.
Senator Ayotte. Thank you, and I am glad to hear you say
that this is going to be an important priority for you, because
I do think there are a lot more cost savings we can realize.
This has been a strong bipartisan effort, and this is an area
where we certainly can do more across agencies. So I appreciate
that.
Since we are talking about GAO, in March GAO published a
report titled, ``OMB Improved Implementation of Cross-Agency
Priority Goals, but Could Be More Transparent About Measuring
Progress.'' And as you know, a lot of the best opportunities to
protect taxpayer dollars requires coordination where you have
multiple Federal agencies involved. And recognizing this, in
2010 Congress required OMB to coordinate with agencies to
develop outcome-oriented Federal Government priority goals.
However, the latest GAO report states that agencies are not
sufficiently setting targets or reporting on efforts to develop
performance measures. And also thinking about when we invest in
taxpayer dollars, we want to make decisions on where to
prioritize based on performance measures so that we are really
putting our resources in the best-performing programs.
So if these goals are priorities, then it seems essential
that we have information to show progress and achievement, and
given the important role of OMB of coordinating in this
endeavor, will you make sure that these GAO recommendations are
acted upon? Because I think this is another area where we could
improve our performance overall with Federal agencies to the
American people and that the better coordination and the better
we are measuring progress and performance measures, we can know
whether we are effectively spending taxpayer dollars.
Mr. Mayock. Thank you again, Senator, and I think that
reflects another tool that we received via this Committee that
we worked closely with through the Government Performance and
Results Act (GPRA) Modernization in 2010 and our ability to go
create the framework that led to the Cross-Agency Priority
Goals that led to the Agency Priority Goals that the
President's Management Agenda and the President's Management
Council seeks to then go execute on.
As to the GAO report in particular, we were quite pleased
on one hand for GAO to say to us, hey, you are doing a good
job, in part. We acknowledge GAO's assessment that there is
more to do, there is a lot more to do in GPRA Modernization.
Senator Ayotte. This is one of those no good deed goes
unpunished. [Laughter.]
Mr. Mayock. It absolutely is. A very fair assessment. So I
think we have more work to do. I think there is a lot of work
that we can do and, if confirmed, I can do, in the remaining
months to really lay a stronger foundation for the next
administration. I think we have made progress by posting them
on Performance.gov and making quarterly reports show up so that
people can track the Cross-Agency Priority Goals, people can
track the Agency Priority Goals. Can they improve as goals
themselves and can we improve the presentation so it is an
easier piece to follow for our stakeholders, for the American
people? Absolutely. And those are the kind of things that we
are working on, and if confirmed, that is the kind of agenda
that I will be working on and would be pressing very hard on.
Senator Ayotte. Thank you.
Mr. Mayock. Thank you.
Senator Lankford. Senator Peters.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PETERS
Senator Peters. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, Mr. Mayock,
congratulations on your nomination. It's good to have an
opportunity to ask you a couple questions and get to know you
better before the actual vote for your appointment.
Last week, I introduced, along with my colleagues Senators
Gardner, Thune, and Nelson, the American Innovation and
Competitiveness Act, which is legislation that follows on the
America Creating Opportunities to Meaningfully Promote
Excellence in Technology, Education, and Science (COMPETES)
Act, and which basically authorizes programs for the National
Science Foundation, the National Institute of Standards and
Technology (NIST), and activities for the Office of Science and
Technology Policy, including Federal science development and
Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math (STEM) programs. I
am pleased to say that tomorrow we are actually going to be
doing a markup on that legislation in the Commerce Committee as
well and are expecting it to pass and then go to the Senate
floor.
In putting this legislation together, I worked very closely
with Senator Gardner, and we held a series of roundtables over
the last few months, engaging the stakeholder community and
scientists and educators, folks throughout the technology
enterprise here in the country, and folks who work with Federal
grants in particular. And we heard in those roundtables that
some of the broad restrictions on Federal employee travel that
were put in place by OMB after the 2012 General Services
Administration (GSA) conference has had a disproportionate
impact on Federal researchers who rely on attending these
conferences to stay engaged with and to disseminate their
Federal research findings to the broader scientific and
technical community. And as I know you will appreciate, science
and technology works better when the findings are broadly
shared and a number of researchers can have an opportunity to
understand what others are doing so that they can follow on
with that work as well.
So as a result of that, we included a provision in the act
which will direct the OMB to consult with the Office of Science
and Technology Policy and heads of other Federal research
agencies, science agencies, to revise these policies for
approving Federal researcher attendance of scientific and
technical conferences.
So I understand some of that work is already being
undertaken at OMB, but I want to kind of get your thoughts on
that. And if confirmed, will you commit to seeing this rule
revision through so that we can ensure that the Federal
Government continues to encourage the broad dissemination of
Federal research findings and the engagement of Federal
researchers with the scientific and technological community?
Mr. Mayock. Thank you, Senator, and let me note first off
that the administration believes in the importance of keeping
our competitive edge. The administration makes a major priority
of technology and science, as you know, and we definitely want
to support the community as much as we can to further their
work.
At OMB, as you know, we put the controls in place in order
to make sure that we had appropriate measures to make sure
there is not wasteful spending in that area. It is time on
occasion to review those controls to see how those are working
and how they are affecting various communities.
As you noted, we are in touch with Dr. John Holdren's
office, and we have been working with Dr. Holdren's office to
understand and get data as to the impacts. And we are committed
to continuing that work, and if confirmed, I am certainly
committed to working with Dr. Holdren and finding the right
balance between our research community and our budget controls.
Senator Peters. Great. And I understand there is a balance
there, but I appreciate your willingness to work on that. It is
certainly something very important and something we heard very
loud and clear in those roundtables that we held with
researchers.
We also heard during the working group series that
researchers often spend as much as 40 percent of their time
fulfilling administrative requirements associated with applying
for and maintaining Federal research grants. So in the
legislation that will be before the Committee tomorrow, we have
made it a priority to reduce this burden as much as possible.
We have included a provision that establishes an OMB-led
interagency working group that will, among other things,
explore uniform grant proposals, uniform financial disclosures,
an investigator repository, and review regulations on research
progress reports.
So, if confirmed, will you commit to prioritizing this work
to reduce administrative burdens on Federal researchers so that
we can maximize our Federal investment in the actual research
work and not on an awful lot of paperwork that gets in the way
of researchers' day-to-day activities? I need, first off, your
commitment to prioritize, and then kind of your general
thoughts on how we can move this forward to make sure this is a
streamlined process that puts money into research and not into
paperwork.
Mr. Mayock. Thank you again, Senator. It is certainly a
priority of the administration to make progress on grants and
grant reform, and it has been something that we have worked on
quite a bit over the past 7 years. In 2014, we put together
guidance that tried to reduce that burden. That cut paperwork
down by, as I understand it, 75 percent and tried to put
grants.gov into place, so grants had a one-stop shop for people
to come to and see what was available and see if they could
apply. That work I think is something that we are very proud
of, but that work continues. We certainly have more to do in
that space, and that remains a high priority.
So I can commit to you today that, A, if confirmed, it will
remain on the priority list for us; and, B, if confirmed, we
will seek to make progress in the coming months ahead.
Senator Peters. Great. I appreciate it. Thank you for your
answers.
Senator Lankford. Ranking Member Carper
Senator Carper. Thanks. Mr. Mayock, you cannot see this. I
just said to the Chairman, I said I am watching the faces of
your family sitting there, and your wife never has a smile far
from her face. She has just the warmest countenance, and so----
[Laughter.]
And I do not think she is laughing at what you are saying,
but she is just giving you great encouragement there.
From time to time, when we have someone nominated for a
position such as yours, I reflect on the responsibilities of
the Executive Branch and the Legislative Branch to try to make
sure we spend taxpayer money appropriately and thoughtfully. I
will never forget one of my early town hall meetings when I was
a Congressman. A woman was there, and basically at our town
hall meetings, people could raise whatever issue they wanted
to. This one woman raised her hand, and we were talking about
budget and fiscal issues, and she said, ``I do not mind paying
taxes. I just do not want you to waste my money.'' That is what
she said: ``I do not mind paying taxes. I just do not want you
to waste my money.''
And I said, ``Well, I do not either,'' and I went on to
explain some of the things that I was doing, that we were
trying to do to make sure we spent her money and other people's
money in a cost-effective way.
We have a role to play on this Committee, an oversight
role, as you know. It is fairly broad over much of the Federal
Government. We work very closely with GAO. We work closely with
the Inspectors General (IG). We work closely with OMB. And we
still have a fair amount of waste, ineffective spending,
inefficient spending, and a deficit which is down from about
$1.4 trillion 6 or 7 years ago to about a third or a quarter of
that today, so that is improvement. But we still have a long
ways to go.
Why do you think, despite all of our efforts at oversight,
the work that OMB does, the Inspectors General, GAO, now we are
stuck at a deficit of about--it has pretty much leveled off. It
is not coming down now. Why do you suppose we have not done
even better than we have achieved so far in deficit reduction?
Mr. Mayock. Well, I think particularly in the area of
government waste, Senator, I would recognize and commend again
this Committee's partnership with OMB and others on the
legislative work that you have put in place on improper
payments through Improper Payments Elimination and Recovery Act
(IPERA) and through Improper Payments Elimination and Recovery
Improvement Act (IPERIA) and the codification of the
President's initiative on Do Not Pay. So it would be my
assessment that we have made a lot of progress at the kind of
challenge that this is, which is quite----
Senator Carper. Let me just interrupt you for a moment. My
wife asks me from time to time what I want on my tombstone, and
I have worked a lot on postal reform over the years with his
predecessor, Tom Coburn. I told her jokingly one day after
church when we were at a stoplight back in Delaware, and there
was like a cemetery alongside us, and she started saying,
``Well, what do you want on your tombstone?'' I said, ``I feel
fine. I am going to be around for a long time. I exercise and
work out and take good care of myself.'' She kept saying,
``Well, what do you want on your tombstone?'' Finally, I said,
``Well, how about `Return to Sender'? '' [Laughter.]
And she thought about that. She did not think it was funny.
I thought it was pretty clever.
But the other thing they might put on my tombstone is, ``He
was really against improper payments.'' [Laughter.]
And I really am. We have worked this very hard, Dr. Coburn
and I and others, and improper payments, after coming down for
a couple of years, now have started going back up. They are
like over $100 billion, about $120 billion, after going down.
That is a lot of money.
I am not ready to give up, but I would never give up. But
why do you suppose that is happening?
Mr. Mayock. In addition to putting the tools in place that
we have put in through IPERA and IPERIA, we have gotten the
ability to go after the root causes of the current issues. But
one of the things that we have not done, Senator, which I hope
that we could do--and it exists in the President's budget of
fiscal year (FY) 2017--is there are some administrative
resources through program integrity initiatives that could, I
think, have a quite dramatic effect on this.
So part of the problem is not investing in the
administrative resources that would help us get on top of these
issues. And I think until we do that, we are going to face
significant challenges. And when we do that, I think we have an
opportunity not only to spend that money wisely, but per
program integrity initiatives generally also have returns on
that money.
That is my hope for the direction that we could take it in.
That is, I think, one of the issues that is keeping us from
making progress and perhaps one of the issues that is causing
that trend to go in the wrong direction.
We were also quite heartened, as partners with you in this,
as that rate came down, and came down somewhat dramatically,
but there is still a large base. And it is ticking up, and its
latest trend is certainly something that we are not satisfied
with and something that, if confirmed, it will also be a very
top priority, as we have made it throughout the Obama
Administration's two terms.
Senator Carper. So maybe 80 years from now when your
tombstone is erected, it might also say, ``He was also against
improper payments.''
Mr. Mayock. I might add that I am with you there on postal
as well, as you know from my budget days.
Senator Carper. Yes.
Mr. Mayock. So I joined in that fight as well.
Senator Carper. Good.
Mr. Mayock. I have a lot of hope for us, Senator.
Senator Carper. Let me change the focus a little bit. We
talked earlier about the Presidential transition. We just had a
wonderful signing ceremony of the legislation that bears the
name of former Senator Ted Kaufman and former Utah Governor
Mike Leavitt, two of my favorite people, to further improve the
process that we go through on the Presidential transition, to
try to provide for a smoother transition.
Given the complexity of the transition--and you will play a
very significant role, as you know--what are some of the
biggest challenges you think you will be facing? And how can
you draw on maybe the lessons learned from previous
Presidential transitions to better ensure a seamless
transition?
Mr. Mayock. Thank you, Senator. I would like to thank again
the Committee for their leadership and again passing us and the
Executive Branch another powerful and important tool.
Senator Carper. Well, you all helped us shape the bill, so
we thank you as well.
Mr. Mayock. And we thank you for your partnership in
shaping the bill. As I mentioned earlier----
Senator Carper. If you do a really good job on this, we
might name the next bill after you. [Laughter.]
Mr. Mayock. Well, I had the opportunity to work with
Senator Kaufman and Governor Leavitt as part of this.
Senator Carper. Are they two great guys or what?
Mr. Mayock. They are two great guys.
Senator Carper. Love them both.
Mr. Mayock. And they are so dedicated to this issue. They
are so deep on this issue, and the amount of time that they
have invested, and making sure that we are improving this cycle
significantly upon the last cycle is a great testament to their
patriotism. And I think as you mentioned earlier, the solemn
task that this is, as you saw in Costa Rica, the fact that we
are able to do this and do it smoothly and without issue from
one party to the next is just an extraordinary feat of American
democracy, and it is an extraordinary role to potentially have,
if confirmed in this position, to be one of the main stewards
of this law and for this activity.
I would say as far as risks of the Presidential
transition--and it is an important tool, again, that this law
has provided to the administration, is to give the actors in
the arena space to deal with transition versus it being hidden
behind some curtain. There is an enormously small amount of
time between the election and the inauguration, and much work
needs to get done within that time and before that time. So
creating the ability to talk about it, to engage in it, is and
was a big risk and is, I think, in the activity that I have
seen this year, in this election cycle, a risk that has been
mitigated quite a bit because people are very much engaged and
people are engaged in very open environments.
So that is really helpful, and that goes to the second
risk. As I have had an opportunity to work with my colleagues
at OMB and throughout the Federal Government, there is a lot of
institutional knowledge as far as memory, but not a lot of
institutional knowledge in documentation as to how a transition
runs and runs smoothly. So we are doing a bit of reinventing
the wheel that should be entirely unnecessary in this process.
That is a risk; I think that is a challenge. I think it is one
that we will overcome.
Senator Carper. I am going to ask you just to hold it right
there. I am over my time, but we will come back for another
round. And thank you very much for being so generous. Thank
you. Thanks for those responses.
Senator Lankford. I recognize Senator Ernst.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR ERNST
Senator Ernst. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr.
Mayock, for being here. We appreciate it very much.
Last year, the Senate passed the Program Management
Improvement and Accountability Act, and recently, the bill
passed out of the House Oversight and Government Reform (OGR)
Committee. We worked with OMB in developing this legislation.
So as you are aware, the bill gives you increased
responsibility to develop a standards-based mode for program
management that is consistent throughout the whole of
government. And you would also be responsible for leading and
establishing an interagency council on program management.
Should this bill become law, will you commit to doing
everything within your authority to implement this legislation
so we can finally address the budget overruns, the schedule
slips, and the workforce challenges that have led to huge
amounts of wasted taxpayer dollars?
Mr. Mayock. Thank you, Senator Ernst, and thank you for
pointing out a challenging issue that we have been working with
at OMB, particularly through the tool that Congress gave us
through GPRA Modernization in 2010 and setting up the framework
that is Agency Priority Goals and Cross-Agency Priority Goals
to do a better job to bring modern management tools to the
Federal Government.
So I am certainly committed, as I am committed to any
statutory requirement and tool that is given to us by Congress,
to execute it and implement it to the fullest.
Senator Ernst. Thank you, and we appreciate the agency
working with us to develop this language. So thank you for
that.
Recent studies have shown that when there is a change in
party entering the White House, midnight regulations occur. For
those that do not understand what ``midnight regulations'' are,
it is that time between election day and Inauguration Day, and
those midnight regulations during that time, they nearly
double. So a big concern there.
There are articles that suggest there are up to 48
potential midnight regulations out there before President
Obama's term winds down. What are you going to do to make sure
these last-minute rules are getting the review and the
consideration that is necessary for them from the Office of
Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA) so we are not placing
increased burdens on Americans?
Mr. Mayock. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate the question
and appreciate the concern. As we were just discussing, a
smooth, seamless, competent Presidential transition is of the
utmost importance and priority for the President. He was very
grateful for the work that occurred by President George W.
Bush, and he has on numerous occasions thanked publicly the
work by the Bush Administration to do that.
There are a number of pieces, as you are pointing out, to
transition and the passage of one administration to the next.
The regulatory arena is certainly one of them. That is headed
up by my colleague Howard Shelanski.
What I am aware of as to our approach during this time is
that Mr. Shelanski shared a memo with the Cabinet agencies--I
want to say that was in December 2015--to communicate to them
that the calendar year 2016 was a business-as-usual year, that
we would not be in the business of the situation that you are
pointing out.
So I think we as an administration have communicated that
to agencies. I think Howard Shelanski and his office have stood
behind that, and I look forward to continuing to work with them
as colleagues in OMB as we continue to push forward through the
transition.
Senator Ernst. OK. Certainly, I appreciate any careful
review and consideration of any rules that might come forward,
so I appreciate your time here. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Lankford. Thank you.
Let me run through a couple things, and I will just kind of
evaluate your answers. Now that I know that your brothers are
also here, I would like to know--maybe the bullpen might be
better to be able to call in for some of these things.
[Laughter.]
So we will kind of evaluate that back and forth.
It is no secret, I spent a long time getting a chance to
visit with some of the Federal managers to talk about some of
their views on agencies and leadership, hiring issues, things
that you are very aware of. In April, I had a long meeting with
them just to be able to talk through multiple issues and to be
able to really--I did not talk. I listened. And I wanted to be
able to just hear what some of their prime concerns are.
What I would like to do is just read off some of the things
that were talked about during that time period. None of these,
I think, will be a surprise to you, and I would be glad to be
able to provide you a list so you do not have to take copious
notes on all this as well. But let me just read through, and I
would like to just get any input or any one of them that may
stick out to you and say that is something that we have to take
on and take on soon.
As I talked with some of those leadership folks, here are
the main things that I heard from them: issues about
administrative leave. The vast majority wanted to shorten the
acceptable length and clarify the specific categories for
employees placed on administrative leave. They emphasized
training managers to make good decisions and a system that
protects managers from wrongful retaliation, which was a very
serious issue for them.
Veterans' preference. Now, I have to tell you, they were
very clear. They were all eager to be able to help protect
veterans' preference. But there were some inefficiencies that
they highlighted in the programs based on that. They complained
that after a long search, they may end up with a veteran
candidate for positions that are not specifically matched to
that skill set, and it is frustrating for that veteran and for
them. They also expressed frustration with the length of time
consuming paperwork and the process required when attempting to
select a better-qualified candidate for the position.
On hiring, managers, they said, lacked the ability to
effectively recruit, and the direct hiring authority needed to
compete for the jobs that they know employees are best suited
for into the open positions. There was a tremendous amount of
disdain for USAJOBS, which Senator Heitkamp and I have held an
open roundtable on that specific subject.
Concerning bonuses, the Federal Government should reward
only those that do exceptional work, and there is an
acknowledgment that the surveys reflecting 99 percent of
Federal employees are doing fully successful or better work
just was not credible.
On manager training, increased managerial training for
actions, options, and strategies to use in relating to
employees with unacceptable performance and improvement and in
conducting employee performance appraisals. Managers also want
more pronounced agency leadership and focus upon compliance
with existing laws and regulations.
And, finally, there was a conversation, which you would not
be surprised on either, about some agencies are interested in
dual-track advancement which provides both technically skilled
employees and those seeking supervisory roles opportunities to
be able to move up. All managers seemed supportive of this
workforce innovation.
Any one of those in particular jump out to you that you
want to be able to talk about? And, again, I can provide you
this list that was part of our conversation.
Mr. Mayock. Well, thank you, Senator, and I would
appreciate the list going forward as we continue to work
together to seek to make progress on that.
I would say as to the list itself, most, if not all of
those, ring quite true as to common issues that arise when
connecting with managers. And I would also thank you. I have
heard about your visits with managers at The Partnership for
Public Service and otherwise, and I can say they find that to
be an unusual opportunity and a real opportunity to have a
candid conversation with you. So I think that is an important
thing that you are doing by reaching out and reaching out at
that level to engage them.
As to what we do about it, I would say a couple things on
that point.
No. 1, if confirmed in this position, I have a good and
great partner in Beth Cobert as the Acting Director at the
Office of Personnel Management (OPM). She was a great partner
when I was in my budget role at OMB, and we worked on a number
of projects together. And we have the opportunity through the
construct of these two roles to continue that partnership. And
I have had an opportunity as a Senior Adviser to the Director
to in part continue that.
I would note a couple initiatives for which Beth is leading
the charge on and for which OMB is playing a strong supporting
role, and they capture a number of the issues that are laid out
on your list, Senator. Her Hiring Excellence Campaign that OPM
has been leading--and it started in earnest I want to say in
January--is doing the hard work of working through a lot of the
issues that you noted and truly, A, myth-busting--there are a
lot of myths out there about how the Federal Government works
in the hiring space; and B, bringing together hiring managers
and human resource (HR) managers, which is a relationship that
could use a lot of work.
I can tell you from my time at the Treasury Department and
the Millennium Challenge Corporation, it is another place
where, if confirmed for this position, I have a lot of agency
experience that informs me about what is real and what is not
real and what can be achieved and not achieved in the agency
context.
So I think through this Hiring Excellence Campaign, we are
working through a number of these issues. The paperwork, the
bonuses, the compliance aspect, the rotation opportunities are
all a piece of that. I think it is an excellent campaign. I
think it is a comprehensive campaign. It is something that we
would like to, as we think about the last 6 months of the
administration, perhaps put special emphasis on and really
double down on.
Senator Lankford. Well, I would say a lot of the
conversation both about management and about local
decisionmaking, and all those things that we have discussed
multiple times in other hearings here, all ring true no matter
who I talk to in whichever agency. So while I understand there
are some myths and some issues there, and there is a lot more
flexibility than there appears to be used in much of the hiring
area, but there is a very long delay. Whether that is an
administrative role or whether that is a forklift operator at
one of our Federal facilities, it seems to be around 4 months
to be able to do a hiring. And that is a very long time to be
able to work through the process, second only to once they
retire out of Federal service and then work to actually get all
their Federal pensions and benefits, at times we can have 4 or
5 months of waiting for the paperwork to be complete to get
through the full OPM process as well in the end.
So both in the hiring and on the retiring side, we have a
very long delay, and those are issues in the days I hope we can
work through for the sake of those that are quality to serve in
the Federal Government and have served our Nation very well.
Let me switch gears a little bit on what several folks have
mentioned as well about OIRA. When there are disagreements
between OIRA and the Deputy Director for Management about
management policies for any general government effectiveness,
how do we process that? Who gets the final word? Where do you
think that goes?
Mr. Mayock. Well, I think, Senator, if there were
disagreements between the head of OIRA and myself, if confirmed
in this position--I find there have been few to none. I have
had the opportunity to work with Howard and his team quite
closely over the last----
Senator Lankford. A very good leader in that area.
Mr. Mayock. A very good leader. And we do not always agree
on everything, but we have found a way to find consensus and
move forward as things have proceeded. But the natural place,
of course, inside the construct of OMB would be to go to the
OMB Director when any part of OMB is in conflict, whether it is
with Howard or the Senior Adviser for Budget or the Senior
Adviser for Management, that would be the natural venue to have
an exchange.
Senator Lankford. OK. One last question, and then I want to
recognize Senator Heitkamp, and that is about the high-risk
issues that have been this wonderful long list that has been
out there for a while. Some of those issues have been resolved
during this administration. Some were inherited from two
administrations ago and are still in process.
How do we sustain this? And, really, this is a transition
question, because most of those issues that are on GAO's high-
risk list are not going to get wrapped up in the next 7 months.
It is a part of the Presidential transition to say this needs
to be done and we are setting up the next administration to be
able to finish that. How do you include that in your
Presidential transition conversations, the high-risk list?
Mr. Mayock. Thank you, Senator. And I would note we at OMB
see this as an extremely important role and partnership that we
have with the Comptroller General in bringing the issues at
high risk into OMB on a monthly basis, regardless of whether it
is a direct OMB equity or a broader OMB equity. So we work very
closely and in close partnership with Comptroller General Gene
Dodaro on that. And I think part of the answer to your question
is to maintain that pace and maintain that continuity. So it
would be certainly my pledge, if confirmed, to play that role,
to play that role every month right into January, and to hand
that off to my successor, if confirmed, so that could pick
right back up in February, No. 1.
Senator Lankford. Would you anticipate there is a short
list of undone that in the hand-off is not only trying to
complete what needs to be done each month but also a package in
that transition to the next agency head to say here is where we
are and here are some ideas of what needs to be finished?
Mr. Mayock. Absolutely. I think where there is agency-
specific issues on the high-risk list, whether it is weather
satellites at Commerce or mental health at Veterans Affairs
(VA), that should be high, high, high in the transition
document so if you are an agency landing team and you are
coming in on November 9 or November 10, you are finding out
what are the highest-priority issues. GAO high-risk list, if
you are on it, you ought to know about it as you cross that
doorstep. The same thing on January 20. That senior leadership
needs to have visibility on that. That senior leadership needs
to know that there is a date coming on which they are going to
be read in on that.
We have GAO and IG on the list right now. I think what we
can do--and I am happy to go back and execute this--is to drill
down on another layer, not just any GAO engagement but
specifically the GAO high-risk engagement, lift that up so we
do what I just noted, which is make it apparent.
Senator Lankford. That would be very helpful. Senator
Heitkamp.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HEITKAMP
Senator Heitkamp. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you
for your willingness to serve. I figure you will be a very good
compromiser given that you are one of, what, eight? Eight, yes.
You have me beat. I am one of seven. But I had four sisters.
Are you fortunate enough to have four sisters?
Mr. Mayock. My poor sister, I only have one.
Senator Heitkamp. Poor thing. [Laughter.]
Well, I do not have a lot of time because I have to run to
another meeting, and we have had a chance to spend some time
visiting. But I think the most important thing that you can do
during the time that you have left is pass along that learning,
that 8 years an administration has, to the next administration
so that we do not pick up from where we were before, so that we
have best practices. I think we all know that there is room for
improvement in management of Federal agencies, and as Senator
Lankford talked about, we have spent a lot of time talking
about what does that management look like, what does the hiring
look like, what are the best practices that can be passed on
and at least aid in this transition. I certainly hope that you
will have that opportunity to share the knowledge and share the
experience and make sure that we are not back here as seasoned
observers and people in oversight asking the same questions
starting from ground zero.
We will try and do what we can to make sure that your
position gets confirmed, but I hope that you will see it as a
real opportunity to pass on lessons learned.
Mr. Mayock. Thank you, Senator Heitkamp, and thank you
again for our meeting in the run-up to this hearing. I really
appreciate your time then, and I really appreciate your
presence today.
I think you have that exactly right, and one of the things
that we are thinking about and doing as we head into the final
6-plus months of the administration is not only the agency's
transition for which this office plays a key role, as we
discussed, through the Presidential Transition Improvements
Act, but also OMB in management and government. We need to tee
up the experience of the last 7 and 8 years so that our
successors have an opportunity to learn from that and learn
quickly from that as they try to figure out where the bathroom
is and how to turn on and off the lights, and they get hit by a
thousand urgent tasks and emergencies. How we are able to tee
that up and move that quickly, expeditiously, coherently to
them is a really important task. We want that next team to be
able to set up a President's Management Agenda in the next 3
months, not the first 2 years.
Senator Heitkamp. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is all I
have.
Senator Lankford. Senator Carper.
Senator Carper. Thanks. I just want to note something. We
talked earlier that there is roughly 7 months to go for this
administration, and some people think that is not a very long
time. I was reminded a long time ago when I was a naval flight
officer, and my squadron, a Navy P-3 squadron based in
California, we used to deploy for 6 months at a time. We would
go to Asia during the Vietnam War and come back home for 8
months, go back again to Asia for 6 months. Those 6 months
seemed like a really long time. And I hope these 7 months that
lie ahead for the administration and for you, if confirmed--and
I think you will be--I just would encourage you and your team
that you work with to just get as much done as you can.
And in that spirit, what are some things that maybe this
Congress and maybe looking ahead to the next Congress can do
better in order to enable you to do your jobs better? What are
some things that we might do? One of the things we focus on a
lot here in this Committee is trying to make sure that the
folks that the administration has nominated get a hearing, a
prompt hearing, and we have the opportunity to put them to work
quickly on almost every occasion. But what are some things that
we can do that might help make you and your colleagues more
effective?
Mr. Mayock. Well, thank you, Senator. I deeply appreciate
that opportunity. I think in the past 8 years, the approach to
management and government has changed quite a bit, and while it
has changed, it has changed for the positive. There are a
number of old challenges that would be good to address in the
remaining months. There are a number of new challenges that
would be good to sustain and new opportunities that would be
good to sustain. So I would point out just a few of them.
One, in the office of the Federal CIO, an extremely
important role, we have great leadership in Tony Scott, and the
ability for him and his team through the funding that has come
through the ITOR piece of the budget has provided the kind of
resources I mentioned earlier for information technology
experts on the management side of OMB to work closely with the
budgeteers on the budget side of OMB, to work very closely with
agency CIOs to make sure projects are on track, projects are
spending at the right pace. So sustaining that piece of the
budget is a very important thing. It is going OK in
appropriations. I think it would be good and important to keep
an eye on that. That also funds the U.S. Digital Service, which
has done an extraordinary job.
In the President's Cybersecurity National Action Plan, we
have asked Congress for a $3.1 billion IT transformation fund
to attack the really horrible problem of legacy systems in the
Federal Government, which are both a cyber threat and a huge
hurdle for government modernizing and providing modern services
to our citizens and our businesses. And I think the ability for
us to make progress on that in the time that we have had a lot
of interest in that, and I think we have made some real
traction on that fund, but pushing that over the finish line so
the next team starts with the ability of that mechanism to
really tackle those legacy systems and tackle that problem.
I would cite a couple quick other opportunities. In the
area of Federal procurement, we have, I think, had a lot of
success in standing up a discipline that has been used in the
private sector for a couple decades now called ``Category
Management,'' which is really building on the success that we
have had in strategic sourcing, but really bringing a whole
discipline to sectors and management. We have been able to save
$2 billion between 2010 and 2015 by basically eliminating
duplication in Federal acquisition.
I think one of the things that the Congress can do is
validate that approach and help secure that approach so, again,
it gets taken up by the next group. I think there is enormous
validation in the private sector for this. Now there is strong
validation as we are standing it up in the final 2 years of
this administration, and anything that you can do to support
that effort, I would be happy to come brief you.
Senator Carper. All right. Thank you.
Mr. Mayock. Those are some of the big stuff that I would
cite for you.
Senator Carper. All right. Thank you.
I have been pleased with how both the George W. Bush
Administration and the Obama Administration have taken a more
active role in Federal real property management, which I am
sure you are aware of. And we have been active on it
legislatively. In fact, we are trying to do more this year.
What are a couple ways that we can ensure that the very good
work in property reform continues on in the next
administration?
Mr. Mayock. Thank you, Senator. Thank you for your
partnership on that issue as well.
I think the team has put a solid program in place to freeze
the footprint and reduce the footprint, and we have had an
opportunity to reduce the footprint by 25 million square feet
up through 2016, which leads to a $300 million annual cost
savings number. So another place, as in acquisition, where I
think we have had some significant success. There is a ways to
go. We have an opportunity if we go execute against that plan
between 2016 and 2020 to reduce the Federal real property
footprint by another 60 million square feet. So I think for the
agencies, it is a matter of working together to keep that
pressure on, to keep that focus going.
I think when we first came out with the program, at the
time we came out with the program, there was a lot of energy
and enthusiasm around it. I think now what we need to do is
really press to make sure the plans that are in place are
implemented, and implemented well. So I appreciate your
partnership on that and look forward to working with you on it.
It is another example of, if confirmed, the way that this
leadership role as the Deputy Director for Management pushes on
a lot of folks in a lot of areas to keep the momentum going.
And I think it speaks to the importance of having this role
filled. And as the President has said, he plans to run through
the tape, to leave everything on the field. I would commit to
you as well, if confirmed, I am ready to run through the tape
with the President and leave everything on the field, and
whether it is real property or any of the other priorities we
have discussed.
Senator Carper. All right. Good. One last quick one, if I
could. After we established the Department of Homeland Security
and it was new and we were trying to glom together 22 big
agencies and a quarter of a million employees that were spread
all over the place in the greater Washington metropolitan
area--and spread around the world actually--one of the things
that became clear is that they needed excellent management,
they needed great leadership, and they needed a good management
team. And we worked with this administration and the last
administration to try to make sure we had that. They needed a
reasonable amount of funding. They have asked for a number of
changes in law with respect to authorization of various
components of the big agency.
One of the issues that came to my attention several years
ago was the interest in trying to get rid of all these leases
that we have throughout the greater metropolitan area, down
into Virginia, and in Maryland and D.C. and so forth, where we
spend a lot of money leasing office space for some of these
quarter of a million employees. They are spread all across
hell's half acre. It is hard to coordinate everybody. There is
not much of a sense of team. And so I was an earlier doubter
that St. Elizabeths made sense to try to consolidate everything
in one campus. I am not a doubter anymore. I think there is
real savings that could be realized, and I think so does the
administration.
Would you just comment on that briefly before we wrap up
here?
Mr. Mayock. Thank you, Senator, and thank you again for
your support on that issue. I had in my time on the budget side
of OMB an opportunity to be the steward of General Government
Programs, as we discussed, which included DHS, and DHS
headquarters was a part of that.
The work that the team did to develop the enhanced plan, as
we called it last year that shaved $1 billion off the cost that
provided for the employees of DHS to move in many years earlier
than planned I think was an extraordinary plan. I think it was
validated by the budget in 2016. I think we need to stay on top
of it like we stayed on top of it in 2016 to deliver this year
on this budget and keep that momentum alive so that the next
Secretary of DHS, when he walks into his or her office.
Senator Carper. Sometimes we let women do these jobs, like
Janet Napolitano.
Mr. Mayock. Absolutely, and I think Secretary Napolitano
was extraordinary in her role there. But for her who walks into
that office, they walk into that office in St. Elizabeths
rather than in Northwest Washington, D.C.
Senator Carper. All right. Thanks so much.
Mr. Mayock. Thank you.
Senator Carper. Thank you.
Senator Lankford. Thank you.
Let me ask one quick wrap-up question and see if there is
anything we need to add. On the issue about OMB setting and
managing the policies of other agencies--that is an interesting
relationship. You and I had a brief conversation in my office
about it as well, the management part of OMB and working with
agencies. Are there particular areas of policy you believe
should be left to OMB when we start talking about setting
policies for agencies?
Mr. Mayock. Thank you, Senator. I think as far as policy
setting, I am happy to continue the conversation beyond this
hearing room, of course, and if confirmed, happy to dig deeper
on that and work further on that.
As for the way things work today, I think that in my
experience at OMB, both on the budget side and my role as a
senior adviser on the management side, we have a pretty
functional and working system where an agency as it seeks to
guide its own equities through its process has an opportunity
to do that, and where OMB has cross-cutting equities and is
working through its management role for the good of the broader
government, that we then produce and work on things like
Executive Orders (EO) and Presidential memos and OMB management
memos.
So that tends to be the balance, I think as we work through
that, and I think we tend to have a good relationship with
agencies as we discuss whether something should be OMB guidance
or something should be agency guidance. But I look forward to
your views and am happy to work with you on that.
Senator Lankford. That is great.
Other questions, Senator Carper?
Senator Carper. I am done. Thanks.
Senator Lankford. Other comments you need to make?
Senator Carper. Let me just say, I left it all on the
field.
Senator Lankford. If you want to make public comments about
your brothers, this is the opportunity. [Laughter.]
Because they will not be given the microphone after you.
Mr. Mayock. I thought I might be given the opportunity to
call a friend or a brother, so I just thank them again for
their presence. They have flown in from St. Paul, Milwaukee,
and New York, and at a moment's notice, so it is wonderful to
have their support, in addition to my other siblings, including
my one sister, who I am sure are paying attention from home. So
I deeply support the presence of all the family here.
Senator Lankford. Thank you.
Mr. Mayock. And I really appreciate the opportunity today
and the work that we have been able to do in the lead-up to
this hearing. And if confirmed, as noted, I look forward to
working closely in the months ahead. A lot of work to do in the
next 6-plus months, and I am dedicated to this job and this
role and working together.
Senator Lankford. Thank you. For you and for Cindy and for
your family, thanks for being here, and for your dedication
already in serving the Nation.
Let me make this brief closing statement, and we will
close. Mr. Mayock has filed responses to biographical and
financial questionnaires, answered prehearing questions
submitted by the Committee, and has had financial statements
reviewed by the Office of Government Ethics. Without objection,
this information will be made part of the hearing record with
the exception of the financial data, which is on file and
available for public inspection in the Committee offices.
Senator Lankford. The hearing record will remain open until
12 p.m. tomorrow, June 29, 2016, for the submission of
statements and questions for the record.
Thank you again for being here. This hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 5:15 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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