    [Senate Hearing 114-596]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 114-596

                     OPENING DOORS TO ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
          FOR OUR VETERANS AND THEIR FAMILIES THROUGH ENTREPRENEURSHIP

    =======================================================================

                                     HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                          COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                              AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                                 JUNE 25, 2015

                                   __________

        Printed for the Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship

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             Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov

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                COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP

                        ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS

                                  ----------
                       DAVID VITTER, Louisiana, Chairman
                 JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire, Ranking Member
    JAMES E. RISCH, Idaho                MARIA CANTWELL, Washington
    MARCO RUBIO, Florida                 BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland
    RAND PAUL, Kentucky                  HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota
    TIM SCOTT, South Carolina            EDWARD J. MARKEY, Massachusetts
    DEB FISCHER, Nebraska                CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey
    CORY GARDNER, Colorado               CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware
    JONI ERNST, Iowa                     MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii
    KELLY AYOTTE, New Hampshire          GARY C. PETERS, Michigan
    MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming
                      Zak Baig, Republican Staff Director
                   Robert Diznoff, Democratic Staff Director

                               C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                               Opening Statements

                                                                       Page

    Vitter, Hon. David, Chairman, and a U.S. Senator from Louisiana..     1
    Shaheen, Hon. Jeanne, a U.S. Senator from New Hampshire..........     2

                                   Witnesses
                                    Panel 1:

    Nowosielski, Katrina, Owner, Storm Guard of LA, Lafayette, LA....     4
    Tansey, Albert, President, Tansey Electric, Manchester, NH.......     7
    Sayles Artis, Laurie, President and CEO, Civility Management
      Solutions (CMS), Bowie, MD.....................................    11

                                    Panel 2:

    Carson, Barbara, Acting Associate Administrator, Office of
      Veterans Business Development, U.S. Small Business
      Administration, Washington, DC.................................    27
    Haynie, Michael, Executive Director, Institute for Veterans and
      Military Families, Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY...........    33
    Daugherty, Scott R., Assistant Vice Chancellor and State
      Director, Small Business Technology & Development Center,
      Raleigh, NC....................................................    37
    McCaffrey, Charles W., Acting Director, Veterans Business
      Outreach Center at Community Business Partnership, Springfield,
      VA.............................................................    41

              Alphabetical Listing and Appendix Material Submitted

    Carson, Barbara
        Testimony....................................................    27
        Prepared statement...........................................    30
        Responses to Questions Submitted by Ranking Member Shaheen,
          Senator Gardner, and Senator Ernst.........................    51
    Daugherty, Scott R.
        Testimony....................................................    37
        Prepared statement...........................................    39
    Haynie, Michael
        Testimony....................................................    33
        Prepared statement...........................................    35
    McCaffrey, Charles W.
        Testimony....................................................    41
        Prepared statement...........................................    43
        Response to a Question Submitted by Ranking Member Shaheen...    55
    Nowosielski, Katrina
        Testimony....................................................     4
        Prepared statement...........................................     6
    Sayles Artis, Laurie
        Testimony....................................................    11
        Prepared statement...........................................    13
    ScoutComms
        Letter Dated July 10, 2015...................................    50
    Shaheen, Hon. Jeanne
        Testimony....................................................     2
    Tansey, Albert
        Testimony....................................................     7
        Prepared statement...........................................     9
    Vitter, Hon. David
        Opening statement............................................     1

                           OPENING DOORS TO ECONOMIC
                          OPPORTUNITY FOR OUR VETERANS
                  AND THEIR FAMILIES THROUGH ENTREPRENEURSHIP

                                  ----------

                            THURSDAY, JUNE 25, 2015

                          United States Senate,
                            Committee on Small Business
                                          and Entrepreneurship,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:36 a.m., in
    Room 428A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. David Vitter,
    Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
        Present: Senators Vitter, Fischer, Gardner, Ernst, Ayotte,
    Shaheen, Cantwell, and Hirono.

     OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DAVID VITTER, CHAIRMAN, AND A U.S.
                         SENATOR FROM LOUISIANA

        Chairman Vitter. If I can have everyone's attention, good
    morning. This hearing of the Senate Small Business Committee
    will come to order.
        Thanks for joining us today to examine how we support
    veterans' entrepreneurship through various programs at the U.S.
    Small Business Administration. I want to thank Ranking Member
    Shaheen for suggesting this hearing and for working with me on
    a comprehensive veterans' entrepreneurship bill that we hope to
    mark up next month.
        We will be hearing from two panels of witnesses today. The
    first is a panel of entrepreneurs who have honorably and
    bravely served our country in the Armed Forces, and the second
    panel includes representatives of programs that help these
    veterans start and grow their businesses.
        Of course, veterans are invaluable members of our
    community, serving our country in so many ways, both here and
    abroad. Of course, it started with their valiant military
    service, but it also continues in terms of being business
    leaders and absolutely vital members of our economy. They gain
    valuable experience throughout their service, and 69 percent of
    veterans say that their biggest challenge after leaving the
    military is finding a job. We have over one million veterans
    currently unemployed, with unemployment rates for veterans at
    nine percent, and in some markets as high as 21 percent.
        So, we are here today to examine how we can better serve
    our returning heroes through entrepreneurial development
    programs at the SBA that target veteran service members
    throughout their transition to civilian life.
        The SBA operates a number of relevant programs. We are here
    to find out how we can make them even better and more
    effective. There are SBA's core technical assistance programs,
    such as Small Business Development Centers, SCORE, and Women's
    Business Centers, that also serve and have outreach initiatives
    specific to veterans. And, the SBA has supplemented these
    efforts with several new innovative initiatives aimed at
    supporting veterans and their families, like Veterans Business
    Outreach Centers, Operation Boots to Business, Veteran Women
    Igniting the Spirit of Entrepreneurship, and the
    Entrepreneurship Bootcamp for veterans with disabilities. These
    programs serve as vital resources for veteran entrepreneurs for
    training and counseling on how to translate their professional
    skills into a viable, sustainable business operation.
        Today's hearing will inform us in a number of areas,
    including the development of legislation that we are working
    on. I am particularly interested in finding out more about the
    role SBA's core entrepreneurship programs play in delivering
    entrepreneurship training to veterans nationwide and how we can
    ensure that any new initiatives are fully integrated with these
    partners.
        I also want to ensure that our veterans get the highest
    quality assistance as they start their own businesses and that
    we are making effective taxpayer investments. Metrics for these
    programs must be clearly defined and reliable and measurable,
    and the grant award process must be robust and fully
    competitive.
        I know that our witnesses can shed really important light
    on these and other issues, and so thanks to all of our
    witnesses participating today once again.
        Now, I would like to turn to our Ranking Member, Senator
    Shaheen, for her opening statement.

    OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JEANNE SHAHEEN, RANKING MEMBER, AND A
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE

        Senator Shaheen. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        Good morning, everyone. Thank you to our witnesses who are
    here to enlighten us this morning.
        I really appreciate this opportunity to discuss a topic
    that is incredibly important not only for our veterans, but
    also for our economy and for our nation as a whole, and, let me
    apologize at the beginning of my remarks because I will have to
    leave at about 10:30 because the Appropriations Committee is
    marking up legislation today and I want to make sure I am there
    to see how we are spending the money. So, I apologize in
    advance to the second panel, which I am afraid I will miss
    entirely.
        Today, there are approximately 2.4 million veteran-owned
    small businesses across the United States and they represent
    about eight percent of all small business. Veteran-owned small
    businesses generate over $1 trillion in revenue each year and
    they employ nearly 5.8 million people.
        In my home State of New Hampshire alone, there are nearly
    14,000 veteran-owned firms, accounting for $6.7 billion in
    sales. That is roughly 10 percent of the companies and 5.6
    percent of all sales in New Hampshire. That is the fifth-
    highest percentage in the country for those small businesses.
        Now, today's hearing is about the federal government's
    investment in promoting veteran small business ownership and
    entrepreneurship, specifically through programs at the Small
    Business Administration.
        Military veterans who choose to become entrepreneurs play a
    critical role in our nation's economy, as those statistics
    show. Their training and leadership skills provide a natural
    foundation to establish and grow businesses, which in turn
    create employment opportunities for returning veterans and
    American workers. That is why we must ensure that the federal
    government makes veterans' small business development a
    priority and that the programs being administered work
    effectively and efficiently.
        Encouraging veterans to start small businesses and succeed
    has been one of my top priorities on this committee, and I know
    that it is something that the Chairman shares as well as other
    members of the committee. Earlier this year, I introduced the
    Veterans Entrepreneurship Act, which was approved unanimously
    by the committee and it would make fee waivers permanent for
    veterans for SBA loans to help them get access to credit.
        Now, today, we have an opportunity to take a look at the
    full range of programs that are offered through the SBA to help
    veterans start and grow small businesses. The SBA offers
    programs that provide critical information, education,
    training, and counseling to our veterans. The committee's
    review of these programs is timely and I look forward to
    discussing ways we can make these efforts more effective and
    responsive to veterans' needs, and I am sure our panelists this
    morning, particularly those of you on the first panel, will
    have some thoughts about that.
        I want to, as I said, welcome all of you today, but I want
    to take this opportunity to just say a few words about the
    witness from New Hampshire, Mr. Al Tansey. Mr. Tansey is
    President of Tansey Electric, which is an electrical
    contracting business in Manchester, New Hampshire. He was
    recently named the SBA New Hampshire and Region 1 Veteran Small
    Business Owner of the Year. Congratulations, Al, for that
    recognition. He has a great story about his journey to becoming
    an entrepreneur and the importance of making sure our veteran
    support programs are working effectively and in a coordinated
    fashion.
        So, again, thank you all very much for being here. Al,
    thank you so much for coming down from Manchester, and I look
    forward to hearing what each of you have to say this morning.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Vitter. Thank you, Senator Shaheen.
        And now, we will go to our first panel. I will introduce
    the other two members of our first panel.
        Mrs. Katrina Nowosielski is a Marine veteran and owns Storm
    Guard of Louisiana with her husband, James. Their company
    offers hurricane protection products to residential and
    commercial structures. They reached out to the Louisiana Small
    Business Development Center at the University of Louisiana at
    Lafayette upon starting their business and have continued to
    rely on the SBDC's services as their company has grown.
        And, of course, you just heard about Al Tansey. Welcome.
        And, finally, Ms. Laurie Sayles Artis is the owner of
    Civility Management Solutions in Bowie, Maryland, and a veteran
    of the U.S. Marine Corps. Before establishing her business, Ms.
    Artis went to SCORE, where she started working with a mentor
    who helped her navigate the early challenges of starting a
    business and has continued to help her expand her contracting
    business.
        Welcome to all of you. You will each have five minutes to
    testify, and, of course, your full written statement will be
    made a part of the record.
        And with that, we will start with Mrs. Nowosielski.

        STATEMENT OF KATRINA NOWOSIELSKI, OWNER, STORM GUARD OF
                      LOUISIANA LLC, LAFAYETTE, LA

        Mrs. Nowosielski. Hello, everyone.
        Chairman Vitter. Hi.
        Mrs. Nowosielski. Well, I did not write it, so I am just
    going to impromptu----
        Chairman Vitter. Sure.
        Mrs. Nowosielski. When I was 16, I attended my brother's
    Marine Corps graduation. The first thing that I heard was boots
    hitting the ground in unison. It was so powerful, and just
    feeling the essence of all the Marines there, I knew at that
    point that I wanted to be a part of that. I wanted that
    strength and that power behind me.
        A couple of years later, after I graduated, I joined the
    Marine Corps. I served four years, and I served a 10-month tour
    in Iraq, which is where I met my husband. When we came back, we
    had about two years left of service and we transitioned out at
    that point because we were ready to start our family.
        We moved to Florida, where James, my husband, began working
    for a hurricane shutter company in South Florida. We spent
    about a year and a half there and decided to move home to
    Louisiana around family. We realized that there were no
    companies really focusing on hurricane protection there the
    same way that they did in Florida. So, we used the business
    model that we experienced there, and we replicated it at home
    in South Louisiana, and it has gone pretty fantastically.
        We began in Florida using the SBA from a distance. They
    guided us from start to finish on how to go about those things.
    Basic questions were answered. The liaisons there are
    phenomenal. They are wonderful, wonderful people. They helped
    me with things that I could not possibly have done for myself.
        I began with QuickBooks training, which was something that
    I had very little knowledge of, and anybody who is in business
    knows that books are probably one of the most important things
    to grasp. So, that was really important. It was one-on-one
    training. They matched 50 percent of the program. So, that was
    something that I could not have afforded on my own.
        I started with that. They helped with a Web site, as well,
    50 percent towards the Web site, producing the Web site. So,
    again, something that we could not have afforded, starting a
    new business on our own, and a combination of those two things
    really pushed us forward to a place that we would not have been
    able to get to financially on our own.
        They also helped us with a line of credit in our first
    year, which we attempted multiple times to get a line of credit
    and got denied, and, the SBA helped us to get a line of credit,
    which helped us to purchase materials which, obviously, allowed
    us to float things longer and really get on our feet. That was
    all within probably the first two years.
        And then, after that, they have provided us with an
    advisor, basically, who comes in, looks at our books, and then,
    in turn, will guide us on where we should go, what we should
    think about next, because we are young business owners and this
    is our first venture in business. He really keeps us on track
    and lets us know what to think about next and where we should
    go from there. And, again, that service, in general, has really
    guided us through this whole process.
        This will be our eighth year of business and we are going
    strong, and, you know, we are actually venturing out into other
    things, as well, since this has grown. It is providing for our
    family wonderfully, and we could not be more grateful for the
    services. We continue to use the services along the way.
        As far as anything that could be bettered, I have a really
    hard time coming up with anything that I could complain about
    with the service. A lot of the programs that I know you guys
    are concerned about are things that were not available when I
    got out, so the program from getting out, to what information
    you get, to transitioning that to a home state as opposed to
    just the bases where you get out, those things were not
    available when I got out, so I have a hard--you know, I cannot
    really testify on that, but----
        [The prepared statement of Mrs. Nowosielski follows:]
        [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T0056.001

        Chairman Vitter. Okay. Thank you very much.
        Mr. Tansey.

        STATEMENT OF ALBERT TANSEY, PRESIDENT, TANSEY ELECTRIC,
                             MANCHESTER, NH

        Mr. Tansey. Good morning, Senators. It is with great honor
    that I am afforded the opportunity to address the Committee on
    behalf of veterans' members and the Veterans' Business Owner
    Initiative. It is also a great honor to be sitting in between
    two Marine veterans.
        The Veterans' Business Owner Initiative is an organization
    I hold dear to my heart, and I am not alone. The VBOI is
    established to assist veterans facing physical and emotional
    challenges and run successful business ventures, giving
    veterans an organized environment, encouraging them to develop
    skills in management, operations, and financial planning.
        As you are all aware, there are many government-funded
    programs that give veterans access to building loans, business
    loans, and most needed moral support. We as an organization
    strive to create a safe haven for veterans to dream of
    entrepreneurship and give them the tools they need to get
    there.
        You may be wondering how I know so much about the VBOI and
    the local success story. I am a small veteran business owner
    myself and I am personally connected to the organization as
    their president.
        I did not have the easiest life after service, a common
    story among veterans. I joined the Army in 1977, was discharged
    in 1980. I immediately went into the Army National Guard, but
    felt that disconnect from the service and I reenlisted back in
    the United States Navy under the advanced weapons program--
    electronics program. I was discharged in 1985.
        Like many veterans, I was unsure of what to do. I was able
    to get back into the International Brotherhood of Electrical
    Workers in my hometown in 1985. And over the next 23 years, I
    worked as a union electrician and basically worked for other
    people in different shops from time to time.
        In 1997, I moved up to New Hampshire and I moved my trade
    and assets up to New Hampshire, in Manchester. Over the next
    several years, I worked for a couple of contractors, at which
    time I decided I was going to venture off on my own. A customer
    I was working with locally suggested that I not retire and
    start my own business.
        At that point, I ventured into my local SBA and met Miguel
    Morales and he suggested going to a veteran roundtable that was
    hosted in Nashua, New Hampshire, and Miguel and Ray Milano and
    a few others, and at that point, I met Gerald Pinsky from the
    Veterans Association who was there to support the SBA on their
    ability to help veterans.
        Gerald was at the meeting supporting the SBA in their
    mission to support veteran entrepreneurs. I started attending
    the VBOA classes in Manchester that were taught by Gerald. I
    worked my way through the 18 business modules. After
    graduation, with both the SBA and the VBOI's support, I was
    able to put together a business plan and financial projections.
    With the assistance and recommendation of both the SBA and
    VBOA, I approached the Radius Bank and received a line of
    credit through the Patriot Loan Act of $300,000 to start my
    business.
        I could not believe how my rapid success, with $500,000 in
    revenue the first year and $1.2 million revenue in the second
    year. I finally had purpose in life, a feeling that many
    veterans lack in their personal and professional lives. Taking
    control of my destiny has changed my life, and I am here today
    to speak for all veterans that lives will be changed with the
    help of the VBOI.
        Why the VBOI is better than most business organizations?
    Because we are veterans helping veterans create and start and
    own businesses. The Veterans Business Owner Initiative believes
    that the qualities that make good warriors also make good
    entrepreneurs. The VBOI has achieved many accomplishments since
    its inception in 2004. In 2006, with the help of Babson College
    students, the Empowerment Bank Loan Fund was established to
    provide small loans to veteran members teaching how to
    establish and maintain good credit relationships. Loans are
    $150 to $1,500 and are made in a step-wise fashion to build
    confidence. Over 100 loans have been given. All but three have
    been repaid.
        I could go on and on about the success stories that have
    emerged from the organization, but unfortunately, we do not
    have the time. But, I do want to stress why I am here today.
        The future of the VBOI and countless number of veterans is
    only possible with your help. The future could be bright if the
    VBOI can increase its establishment around the country, not
    only in New England. A dart thrown at a map of the U.S. will
    land on a spot where I guarantee you will find at least one
    dozen veterans who will give anything for the education
    opportunity I have had because of the cooperation of the VA and
    the SBA.
        With the support from the Senate, the VBOI can continue to
    support veterans and give back to them a return on the service
    they have given to us. With determination and thoughtful
    planning, we are optimistic about the future of the program and
    our role as veterans helping veterans to do more to overcome,
    to excel at whatever goals we choose for ourselves.
        Thank you very much for your time.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Tansey follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Vitter. Thank you very much for your testimony.
        And now, we will go to Ms. Artis.

    STATEMENT OF LAURIE SAYLES ARTIS, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE
           OFFICER, CIVILITY MANAGEMENT SOLUTIONS, BOWIE, MD

        Ms. Artis. Good morning.
        Chairman Vitter. Good morning.
        Ms. Artis. Thank you, Chairman Vitter, Ranking Member
    Shaheen, and members of the committee, for this opportunity to
    testify, and I ask that my complete testimony be entered into
    the records.
        My name is Laurie Sayles Artis and I established Civility
    Management Solutions in August of 2012 as a professional
    services company. We are a woman, minority, service-disabled,
    veteran-owned small business, and I am also located in a
    HUBZone area in Prince George's County, Maryland, and currently
    in the process of submitting our 8(a) package on business
    development.
        I was born in Chicago and joined the United States Marine
    Corps and served during Grenada, Lebanon, and Desert Storm. My
    job in the Corps was maintenance management, which means I
    monitor the management and functionality of equipment for the
    fighting Marines, like the rifles, trucks, and the radios, and
    I had the honor of preparing Reserve Marines for the
    possibility of serving in Operation Desert Storm.
        The development of Civility Management Solutions came from
    an opportunity that I got to work in a corporate office of a
    woman-owned small business that was also 8(a) and HUBZone, in
    which I managed up to 128 staff nationally within eight
    government agencies totaling up to $11.5 million in contract
    value. And, mind you, when I got out of the Marine Corps, I
    started as a receptionist based on staffing agencies'
    qualifications, making $17,000 a year.
        But whereas my experience of serving in the Marine Corps
    gave me courage, discipline, teamwork, and tenacity that
    attributed to my transition into the civilian workforce. It was
    a slow and steady process, but the Corps taught me to lead and
    survive. So, what I was lacking was business acumen.
        Before establishing, I went to SBA SCORE, over three years
    now, and obtained a mentor, and I was appointed a retired Major
    General, Fred Elam, who was just perfect. Our first meeting
    was, ``Is your husband in agreement? Take courses with SBA and
    get an attorney and an accountant before you need them.''
        [Laughter.]
        If my mentor lacks expertise in any area, he refers me to
    another mentor to ensure that I get the proper insight or
    response.
        My highlight of the relationship with SCORE is the
    Washington, D.C., office honored me in 2015, this year, as
    ``Client of the Year'' for my entrepreneurial spirit and
    accomplishments.
        So, in January of 2014, I attended VWISE and experienced
    networking at its best with women veteran entrepreneurs. But,
    adding more substance for the training for federal and
    commercial contracting would be great to add value for the
    program.
        The VWISE National Graduate Training Conference was a big
    kick. It allowed advanced training. It gave some booth exhibits
    to women that owned businesses and also provided for more
    networking opportunities for the graduates.
        It is clear that the heightened awareness in our country
    for veterans and veteran entrepreneurs is there. However, as of
    recent, I have spoken with Fortune 500 companies that stated it
    is difficult to find strong veteran candidates for employment
    and procurement-ready veteran-owned businesses for being a part
    of their supplier diversity office. We need more synergy in
    promoting veterans to the commercial opportunities, as I do
    plan to be a conduit on that and would appreciate the support
    of the program.
        I am a recent graduate of the Montgomery County,
    Maryland's, Veteran Institute of Procurement, and they are
    doing an excellent job of training veteran-owned businesses
    that are already procurement-ready for doing work with the
    federal government. They are slowly doing it, and they are the
    only ones out there who are doing it.
        During my training, I had a group exercise for responding
    to sources sought, also called an RFI request for information,
    and since graduation, my company has been awarded work with the
    Department of the Army because I was able to respond to their
    sources sought due to the training. And, the work was set aside
    for a service-disabled veteran-owned small business, and we
    went after it and won.
        So, I suggest that they become an authorized program as
    opposed to just being a grantee.
        Lastly, as an officer on the Veteran Entrepreneurship Task
    Force Committee, which is a non-federal community group that
    advocates for veteran-owned small businesses that offers
    recommendations and advice to Congress, government, and other
    entities also providing training to us, I have been affiliated
    for the past three years and have received much support,
    guidance, and information relative to being in business with
    the federal government by attending their monthly meetings.
        Again, thanks for the opportunity to share my experience
    with the committee on veteran entrepreneurship programs.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Artis follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Vitter. Great. Thanks to all of you for your
    excellent insight and testimony.
        Because of her schedule and requirement to leave in a
    little bit, I will turn first to Senator Shaheen.
        Senator Shaheen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I want to start, Mr. Tansey, with you. You talked about the
    importance of the roundtable with other veterans in helping to
    encourage you to actually make the jump to go out on your own.
    Can you talk about how important that is for veterans
    everywhere, as you talk about the sort of support for getting
    direction for what you might want to do when you get out of the
    service?
        Mr. Tansey. Yes, Senator. Thank you. I know for myself, the
    SBA was an integral part of myself getting started, but joining
    the Veteran Business Owner Association Group locally, the
    veteran-to-veteran peer networking, there is something about
    when I left the service--and I speak for myself, but I know I
    speak for a lot of veterans--when we leave the service, there
    is what I call the service disconnect, and we feel like we do
    not belong ``out here'' and there is that longing to belong to
    something.
        What I found inside my group is that the veterans meeting
    with other veterans, it is not just the peer-to-peer network as
    far as growing the business intelligence, but also the veterans
    helping each other talk about problems they may have in their
    current lives. And, it helps boost the morale and the
    confidence.
        One of the important things about--you know, I bring a lot
    of veterans--I tried to bring a lot of veterans into my
    businesses. Veterans already have the package. We just have to
    learn how to open it up. Most veterans are conditioned to
    adverse conditions, to strive to make sure that the mission is
    completed at all costs. And once they have the respect and the
    honor, they are very loyal. We call it, we have your six. It is
    a proven fact.
        Senator Shaheen. So, you talked about going into SBA and
    the support you got there. Are there ways in which we can do a
    better job of helping reach out more to veterans so that they
    know that SBA is there and that it is available to help when
    people have an idea or want to start a business?
        Mr. Tansey. Yes. I am currently working with Miguel
    Morales, my local SBA interaction up there in Manchester, who
    goes to Pease Air Force Base from time to time to give the
    boost to business talk, and I call it the Charlie Brown effect.
    When people are leaving the service, all they hear is wah-wah-
    wah-wah-wah. Let me out the door.
        [Laughter.]
        So, I was instrumental in helping with Jerry. We put
    together a pamphlet for the VBOI that he can hand to the
    individual so they can have it in their packet. I am going to
    be working with him here closely to put together a packet so
    the individual, when he leaves the service, has something to
    hold onto that within two, three weeks afterwards, when the
    dust settles, he has got numbers he can call, people he can
    come to, because it is instrumental that he come back to
    ground.
        Senator Shaheen. I think that is a great idea, and thinking
    about how we can do that kind of outreach through SBA is really
    important.
        Mr. Tansey. It is very important at all the programs, the
    SBA, the PTAP, the VA, the VBOI, all start talking to each
    other. I mean, they all have wonderful assets. They all have
    wonderful programs. What we need to do is combine them all
    together to get them talking. Get the conversation open and see
    what happens. I think you will be surprised.
        Senator Shaheen. Thank you.
        To our other two panelists, Ms. Artis and Ms. Nowosielski,
    I was very pleased to see that we have two female veteran-owned
    business representatives here, because as you are probably
    aware, unfortunately, women veterans are under-represented in
    terms of starting their own businesses. So, I wonder if you
    could talk about how we could increase awareness among female
    veterans about the assistance that might be available and
    encourage them to take those great ideas, like both of you have
    done, and start their own business? Either one.
        Ms. Artis. Thank you. It is odd, by the way, to have two
    women Marines in a room, because I have actually gone on a boat
    cruise with veterans. It was 192. I was the only woman veteran
    on that cruise. So, it is a pleasure to be here with her.
        But, as far as having more visibility, I would say that--I
    know that they have the TAP programs out there. Thank goodness
    now for the Internet, when comparison to the time that I got
    out, that stuff did not exist, that they need to incorporate
    more information there, because a lot of veterans are getting
    out thinking to start their business in this generation,
    whereas that was not my thought. It was more about I just need
    a job. I wanted to put a suit on and go to work.
        So, now the pace has picked up, and there is a huge women's
    movement that is going on. There are a lot of nonprofits that
    exist. So, it is just a matter of someone spending the time to
    kind of bringing all those entities together, or at least
    getting on their mailings, getting in their e-mail world, so
    that they can be informed of what the SBA is offering.
        I, myself, personally, am a huge mentor and I am sharing
    all the time. One of the first things I ask, do you have a
    SCORE mentor, and if they tell me no, then I advise them how to
    get one.
        Senator Shaheen. Thank you. I would point out that Senator
    Ernst, who just left, is also an ex-Marine, so we actually had
    three in the room today.
        Ms. Artis. That is amazing.
        Senator Shaheen. And, can I just ask, Mrs. Nowosielski, do
    you have anything to add to that about, as somebody who came
    out a little later and was starting up, what was most helpful
    to you?
        Mrs. Nowosielski. I would definitely agree with both Mr.
    Tansey and Ms. Artis on the TAP program. When exiting, they
    give you a ton of information. There was a lot of literature,
    and for myself, I made a giant packet, because I did do the
    Charlie Brown effect. You do not hear anything. You are just
    ready to go.
        And, so, you get out there, and I probably still have it in
    a file somewhere, where it was just a giant pile of
    information, and I did go back through it when I was ready to
    consume it and use that guidance, and I think that is how I
    ended up at the SBA, because it was in there. So, it absolutely
    is there. You just have to want it and you have to want to go
    for it.
        I think that one of the things that a lot of folks do is
    they end up in the medical facility, the VA medical facility,
    and I think that maybe that might be a really good place to
    connect and be given information again at one point, and they
    do have a ton of information there, as well.
        The Web sites are helpful, obviously. We get out there and
    we just surf. I found a lot of my own information that way. You
    just go from one place to another to another, connecting. But,
    the information is there. It is there. You just have to look
    for it.
        Senator Shaheen. Thank you all very much. My time has
    expired.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Vitter. Thank you, and we will go to Senator
    Hirono. I will wait until last. Senator.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all
    for coming to testify.
        I am a member, also, of the Veterans Committee as well as
    the Armed Services Committee, so I am very focused on the
    transition from active to veteran status, and I have heard from
    meeting with veterans all across my state that the TAP--that is
    a lot of information given to you pretty much in a very
    condensed way when all you are thinking about is leaving,
    transitioning out. And, I think you make a good point that
    there needs to be other--maybe the rest of you also agree--that
    there needs to be other points at which this information is
    readily available to the veterans.
        Mr. Tansey, you mentioned that there are all these
    different programs and they should be talking to each other and
    you do not see that happening in the way that would be
    beneficial for veterans who seek this kind of information.
        Mr. Tansey. Yes. I do see some talking back and forth, but
    as a personal note, I see different programs out there.
    Everybody is pining to be the next best thing for the veterans'
    needs.
        Senator Hirono. Mm-hmm.
        Mr. Tansey. So, some things get lost in the translation for
    the different programs. I am just a conduit to try to take in,
    bring all the assets to bear. SBA was an integral part of me
    starting my business and they have great assets. Part of the
    issue for the SBA in my state is they say, you know, they need
    the support from the outside world. So, my organization, I
    encourage all my members to support the SBA, to get that
    interaction back and forth, to get that communications open.
        Senator Hirono. So, the SBA is in every state, but, for
    example, I have some experience with SBA's, the Small Business
    Development Centers, and those can be in different communities.
    I am wondering whether--and that is kind of a one-stop place
    for just people who are interested in starting small
    businesses, not necessarily a veteran-focused one-stop center.
    Are there any of these veterans programs that can serve as more
    of a one-stop center for veterans who are interested in
    starting their businesses, of all the different programs that
    are out there? Any of you?
        Mr. Tansey. I know for myself, as President of the Veterans
    Business Owner Initiative, currently, we have been going for
    about 10 years----
        Senator Hirono. Are you in every state?
        Mr. Tansey. No. Right now, we are only in New England. That
    is pretty much why I brought packets down----
        Senator Hirono. Yes.
        Mr. Tansey [continuing]. Because I want to be in every
    state. What I would really love to do is to interact with the
    SBA. SBA is already in place. They already know the contacts.
    All we need to do is talk, and----
        Senator Hirono. So, how is your organization supported,
    then? You are only----
        Mr. Tansey. We are self-supported. We are a 501(c)----
        Senator Hirono. Okay.
        Mr. Tansey [continuing]. So, we are actually looking for
    funding to start a pilot program for two years. We would love
    to have 10 locations over two years with a small funding just
    to see how the program goes along before it actually gets, you
    know, totally funded. We are a 501(c), so--it is veterans
    taking pride in their own organization to help other veterans.
        Senator Hirono. So, there are federally supported programs
    that you are also familiar with. Would you like to respond?
        Ms. Artis. Yes, ma'am. There are--actually, the VWISE is
    something that SBA has funded. I understand that VIP, as well,
    is kind of as a grant scenario. They should be authorized,
    though, because they provide something that nowhere else can we
    get, because it is for ready companies for federal government
    work, meaning they would like for you to have three employees.
    They would like for you to have already some funds on the
    books. Then when you go, of course, you are getting knowledge
    that you can apply immediately and be able to bounce off what
    you have already set up to what the experts are saying about
    what you are doing and being able to come away with really
    improving what your organization has to offer.
        But, I really need to echo one thing that he has stated
    that is very true. We can be a little territorial as veterans,
    meaning that veterans supporting veterans is a much bigger deal
    for us, seasoned veterans like him and I, specifically--I
    notice he is a little younger--because we have been through a
    lot already to get through the transition. And many of the
    newer veterans, you know, they have to become civilians first.
    Veteran, civilian, the same thing, because that process takes a
    while. I do not know when I stopped saying, ``I am going to the
    head.''
        [Laughter.]
        And, I was working in a professional environment before I
    switched over to going to the bathroom, so that is my comment.
        Senator Hirono. My time is running out, but I just wanted
    to ask, would it be a good idea for us to try and bring all of
    these various programs together, at least under--if not
    physically under one roof, at least under one Web site that you
    could go to and that you could see all of the array of
    assistance? Is there such a place right now on the Internet
    that you could go to?
        Mrs. Nowosielski. I do not know of a place, but I do like
    the SBDC connection with the whole thing. There are a lot of
    veterans, and because they are housed at the universities, when
    a lot of us get out, we end up using our G.I. Bill, and we are
    looking for things and it is there. And, I like the idea of
    having it connected at that point, whatever programs are
    available. They have a direct, you know, connection. I have
    used the SCORE program, as well, which is a wonderful,
    wonderful program which the SBDC pointed me in their direction.
    I signed up for their Web sites, and they send out when they
    have meetings and different things and you can attend. So, I
    think that that is a great, great core place----
        Senator Hirono. SBA----
        Mrs. Nowosielski [continuing]. If you are looking for one
    spot--the SBDCs, the local----
        Senator Hirono. Okay. Thank you.
        Mrs. Nowosielski. Yes, ma'am.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Vitter. Thank you, and we will go to Senator
    Cantwell.
        Senator Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate
    the witnesses being here today and for their testimony.
        I wanted to ask you about access to capital. What
    challenges did you face getting access to capital as small
    businesses? Do you think military members have unique
    challenges there? What are some of the things that we can do to
    help with that?
        Mrs. Nowosielski. I think that unique challenges--I would
    not say anything unique other than what a non-veteran would
    experience. But, just like any small business in that first
    year, they want to see that you have legs to stand on and
    nobody does at the beginning. So, it was very hard.
        The way that we ended up with a line of credit in our first
    year of business was that it just so happened a person at a
    bank needed the products that we had. There was no-one local
    selling them at the time. And, she just really went to bat for
    us. It took one person to stand up for us, and she got us an
    SBA line of credit for $50,000 and that is what got us started.
    But, I had been to multiple banks up until that point and was
    denied multiple times.
        Senator Cantwell. Any of the other witnesses?
        Mr. Tansey. I know for myself, I believe I have the last of
    the American Patriot Loan Act. Unfortunately, it helped me get
    my business going, my line of credit, $300,000. It was
    instrumental in me getting my business going. But, it was what
    I had to do to get that loan. As a veteran, not only did I have
    to throw up 100 percent collateral--my house, my retirement,
    the whole nine--I had to take a life insurance policy out. The
    only thing I did not have to give was a child, for just a small
    loan. And, after researching that loan, we found that the
    Patriot Loan had a very large failure rate.
        So, I know my organization, we are talking back and forth
    about something a little different, a loan package for
    veterans, for veterans. We are working in the avenues of trying
    to start our own intermediary bank, so----
        Senator Cantwell. And, what would that do? What size would
    you be looking at?
        Mr. Tansey. Uh----
        Senator Cantwell. For, like, starter loans?
        Mr. Tansey. For starter loans?
        Senator Cantwell. What range, yes?
        Mr. Tansey. Ten to $20,000, $30,000 for starters, but it
    could go up to $150,000, depending on the entrepreneur, their
    record, basically on their credit scores. But, it would be a
    loan for the veteran, the customer, me the customer, not the
    banks. Having to put up--most veterans put up their lives on a
    ticket.
        We sign an oath to defend the Constitution of the United
    States. And when we come back--we put our lives on hold for
    many, many years, some 10, 20 years. So, they do not have the
    ability to build that credit establishment when they come out.
    So, they are starting like a green bean coming out of high
    school. So, they do not have the greatest credit score. They do
    not have the credit history, so it is hard for them.
        Senator Cantwell. Or the private sector work experience.
        Mr. Tansey. Or work experience, exactly.
        Senator Cantwell. Sometimes you get somebody who works in a
    field and then decides to spin off and go their own route, but
    they do not have that, here is five years where I worked in
    this sector.
        Mr. Tansey. And, actually, that is all highlight points
    that the bankers look at and say, well, this is a high-risk
    loan, so we are going to attach so much to it, and we should
    not have that.
        Senator Cantwell. So, it is the collateral that--so, you
    are looking for ways to have things without a high level of----
        Mr. Tansey. Collateral.
        Senator Cantwell [continuing]. Collateral, yes.
        Mr. Tansey. Exactly.
        Senator Cantwell. Okay. Ms. Artis.
        Ms. Artis. Actually, ma'am, I can say that is still a
    problem. I do not have financing. I have been just blessed with
    the whole family-friend scenario. But, I do know that is one of
    the biggest challenges. I am one of the younger companies here
    on the table. That is still a continuous challenge among my
    peers that I speak to. That is the biggest challenge, is
    getting the capital to fund the professional services that they
    offer.
        Senator Cantwell. And are you thinking the same range that
    Mr. Tansey was talking about?
        Ms. Artis. Yes. Actually, that range would be a safe range,
    specifically in the services that we provide, because we are
    just waiting for the government to pay us for the services that
    our staff may have already provided to them. So, we just need
    that float money between pay periods.
        Senator Cantwell. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know you
    have a second panel that you want to also get to.
        Chairman Vitter. Yes. Thank you.
        Senator Cantwell. Thank you. Thank you to the witnesses.
        Chairman Vitter. Thank you very much.
        I have a few questions. Ms. Nowosielski, I know you went
    into this somewhat, but specifically, what were some of your
    biggest challenges as a transitioning service member, coming
    out of the service and thinking about business?
        Mrs. Nowosielski. The biggest challenge was probably
    funding and figuring out how to get money in order to make
    money. And then going to school and juggling with an education
    through all of those things.
        Challenges, probably the financial aspect of it. We just
    grew slow. We started really small and we spent--what we made,
    we spent, and then we grew, you know, over a period of seven
    years. We just had to take a slow route as opposed to getting
    money to do bigger things. There were many projects that we had
    to pass up because we did not have the capital to do them at
    the time.
        Chairman Vitter. Right. So, single biggest challenge was
    capital----
        Mrs. Nowosielski. Probably, yes, sir.
        Chairman Vitter [continuing]. And funding to get started as
    a business.
        Mrs. Nowosielski. Yes, sir.
        Chairman Vitter. Okay. And, after you were initially
    started, what were some of the continuing issues that SBDC, in
    particular, helped you with?
        Mrs. Nowosielski. Education was the biggest thing that I
    received help with. We received a business advisor through the
    SBDC who came in and broke down books and explained to us how
    to read financials and how to navigate through what we should
    spend and what we should not spend, and what we could afford
    and not afford. They also came in and helped. We do light
    manufacturing, so they helped us to set up our assembly line in
    an efficient manner. They helped us to find used equipment,
    things like that, that was affordable for us at the time so
    that we could pick up production and produce more. And those
    things were extremely valuable to us.
        Chairman Vitter. Great. Okay.
        I know that SBA tries to create sort of a whole network of
    support for veterans' business owners. In your personal
    experience, how would you grade that sort of network?
        Mrs. Nowosielski. I think I would grade it an A. I think it
    is wonderful. I had no problems. Everything that I asked for
    was provided and then some. I was never told no or turned away.
    If they could not provide it, they gave me a point of contact
    where I could get the help.
        Chairman Vitter. Okay.
        Mrs. Nowosielski. I have zero complaints.
        Chairman Vitter. Great. Okay.
        Mr. Tansey, I think you have dealt with VBOI as well as
    SBA, right?
        Mr. Tansey. Yes.
        Chairman Vitter. How would you compare them, and is there
    duplication? Is there overlap or duplication that is
    counterproductive?
        Mr. Tansey. Well, I believe the SBA and the Boost to
    Business program, I did not go through that program, but
    working with Miguel, I get the logistics of it.
        The VBOA basically is an 18-class module starting from
    conception all the way up to financial and out the door
    business planning. So, we were able to build a business plan.
    The SBA also provides this kind of support, but what I found is
    that the veteran-to-veteran peer networking within the group--
    the group dynamics is what has changed my attitude as far as
    what is better and what is worse than others. VBOA groups
    themselves, you have to experience. As the President of the
    VBOA, I invite each and every one of the panelists to come to
    one of our meetings in Massachusetts or New Hampshire, you
    know, an open invite, to see the difference in the lives of the
    veterans as they transition back.
        Basically, there are a lot of veterans out there that are
    having issues with post-traumatic stress, alcohol, drug-related
    issues, the pill pop from the Veterans Administration to help
    quiet the voices in the head. Coming back to the group, I see
    time and time again those people getting off the medications
    and getting back into the real world. It is real time. It is
    real. But, I do not want to push away the SBA, because the SBA
    has always been an intricate part of my business.
        Chairman Vitter. Right.
        Mr. Tansey. It still is.
        Chairman Vitter. Right. Okay. Thank you very much.
        Let me go to Senator Ayotte.
        Senator Ayotte. Thank you, Chairman. It is really an honor
    to have you here, Mr. Tansey, and thank you for coming today,
    and congratulations on being named the New England Veteran-
    Owned Small Business of the Year. That is terrific. I am glad
    to hear that you have been able to grow with the help of the
    Veterans' Business Owners Initiative.
        I know that you have already testified, but I also
    understand that you were the first Veterans' Business Owners
    Initiative member in New Hampshire to reach $1 million in
    sales.
        Mr. Tansey. That is correct.
        Senator Ayotte. That is fantastic. And, I know this started
    in New England and that one of the things you have told this
    committee today is that this program has been effective and we
    should expand it nationwide. What can we do, do you think, to
    be able to take what has happened in New England and really
    scale it up nationwide, and what--I know you have probably
    already talked about this, but--what do you think is the most
    important tool that is part of this program? You talked about
    the peer-to-peer mentoring aspect of it.
        As you know, Senator Shaheen and I work together on a lot
    of these veterans issues, whether it is the health care issue
    that we are trying to make sure that our veterans in New
    Hampshire get more access to health care because we do not have
    a full-service hospital, and wanting to make sure that whatever
    we are doing is the best to have that local connection, because
    I think that is probably why it has been so effective for you
    and helpful for the veterans. So, just any thoughts for us on
    how we can take what you are seeing and make it for everyone to
    have that opportunity.
        Mr. Tansey. Thank you, Senator. It is good to see you
    again.
        Senator Ayotte. Great to see you.
        Mr. Tansey. I am happy to see a couple supports for the
    women-owned initiative in New Hampshire. I support the SBA on
    women's issues, also.
        Senator Ayotte. Yes. Fantastic.
        Mr. Tansey. The VBOI, basically, we have an idea how we can
    take this model. We have a model already set in place. We have
    the numbers all put together. And, I would love the support of
    the Senate or Senate subcommittees to take a look at our
    numbers, to present a pilot program to where we could reach out
    to 10 cities for pilot for two years and see how it goes.
        Senator Ayotte. Mm-hmm.
        Mr. Tansey. But, my experience, the peer-to-peer mentorship
    between the veterans, whether it is man-on-man or woman-on-
    woman, we have women businesses in our group already, so----
        Senator Ayotte. Yeah.
        Mr. Tansey [continuing]. It needs to get out there. We need
    your help.
        Senator Ayotte. Absolutely. So, I have a question for you.
    One of the issues that we have been hearing a lot, too, on,
    because I serve on the Armed Services Committee, as well, is,
    so, veterans, in terms of the experience they come out of the
    military with, we know that that experience, incredible in
    terms of the training, the leadership skills, the ability to
    work with other people. But, often, how you put--let me use an
    example. You have been a sniper. How does that translate into a
    job description that an employer can understand so that we can
    make sure that veterans get hired more?
        And, so, wanting to make sure--like, much of the training
    that you get in the military--it is often that private
    employers--veterans do not know how to translate that, or
    private employers, frankly, are not translating this incredible
    skill set of our veterans so that they know what our veterans
    are capable of so we can get more veterans hired.
        I just wanted to get your thought on that. I mean, you come
    to this, obviously, with having served and having that
    experience of the peer-to-peer, but getting that issue of
    translation of skills so that we can get more veterans hired, I
    just wanted to get your thought on that.
        Mr. Tansey. It is basic military training. As we transpire
    through military training, it is drawn into us to lead by
    example and to expect the unexpected. Most veterans in a
    cohesive unit group know what the guy to the left and the guy
    to the right does. And in the case of troubling times and that
    person is no longer there, we can take up the slack. As a
    leader of a unit, you become in-tuned to exactly the needs and
    the attributes of each one of your members and you learn how to
    key off those assets to trigger that veteran to the next level.
        Unfortunately, in the business world, it is do or die. We
    want it done. Why is it not done yet? So, the business owner in
    the real world does not really understand the concept of what
    goes through a military mind, because it is droned into us, it
    is driven into us, it is reactive. What I see time and time
    again is veterans coming back to veterans, and we can key off
    on those key points because we know them, and we take them to
    the next level of confidence. And, once a military member that
    has been trained hits that confidence level, you cannot stop
    them.
        Senator Ayotte. Right. I am a little partial, because I am
    married to a veteran. He has his own business, so I see that.
        [Laughter.]
        But, I think getting that word out, whatever we can do to
    get the word out to employers, private employers, so that they
    are hiring more veterans, would be terrific. So, any thoughts
    down the line you have for us on that, I would really
    appreciate it.
        Ms. Artis. I would like to add, snipers and individuals
    that have interesting jobs in the military that kind of have
    more of a difficulty transitioning, apprenticeship programs and
    training, specifically now all these certifications that they
    have out here in IT, at this point, all service members are
    operating on computers. They have e-mail addresses, things,
    again, that did not happen in our era. But, nonetheless, they
    are very techy. So, those types of programs need to be
    elaborated on, and the G.I. Bill funds need to be allocated for
    them to be able to use that for those sources, not just a
    typical four-year degree, because you are 30, 40 years old and
    you are not about to go to school--or do not desire----
        Senator Ayotte. I totally agree. There are actually a lot
    of great advanced manufacturing jobs where you need those skill
    sets and the pay is good, so we can transition to that. That is
    not a four-year degree, but getting those skills, so I
    appreciate it.
        Ms. Artis. Yes, ma'am.
        Senator Ayotte. Thank you.
        Chairman Vitter. Great. Thank you all very much. We really
    appreciate your testimony here, as well as everything you are
    submitting for the record.
        We will now move on to our second panel, and as they get in
    place, I will go ahead and start introducing them.
        Ms. Barbara Carson is the Acting Associate Administrator
    for the Office of Veterans Business Development at the SBA. She
    is responsible for veteran-related programs for active duty and
    reserve service members, service-disabled veterans, and
    military dependents and survivors.
        Dr. Michael Haynie is the Vice Chancellor of Syracuse
    University, responsible for veteran and military affairs. Dr.
    Haynie also serves as the Founding Executive Director of
    Syracuse University's Institute for Veterans and Military
    Families and as the Barnes Professor of Entrepreneurship.
    Before beginning his academic career, he served for 14 years as
    an officer in the United States Air Force.
        Mr. Scott Daugherty is also a U.S. Army veteran. He serves
    as the Assistant Vice Chancellor for Economic Development at
    North Carolina State University and the State Director of the
    Small Business Technology Center, which provides confidential
    business advisory services and educational programs for
    existing businesses and start-ups. And, in 2011, he was also
    appointed by Governor Beverly Perdue to serve as North
    Carolina's first Small Business Commissioner and was a part of
    the Senior Management Team of the Department of Commerce there.
        And, Mr. Charles McCaffrey has served in the U.S. Navy,
    including the Navy Reserve Officers Training Corps and on the
    President's National Security Telecommunications Advisory
    Committee Cybersecurity Collaboration Task Force. He now serves
    as a Director of the Veterans Business Outreach Center in
    Springfield, Virginia.
        Welcome to all of you. Just like the last panel, you will
    be invited to testify here for five minutes each, and, of
    course, your entire written testimony will be made a permanent
    part of the record.
        So, we will start with Ms. Carson. Welcome.

     STATEMENT OF BARBARA CARSON, ACTING ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR,
     OFFICE OF VETERANS BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT, U.S. SMALL BUSINESS
                             ADMINISTRATION

        Ms. Carson. Good morning, Chairman Vitter and Ranking
    Member Shaheen and members of the committee. Thank you for the
    opportunity to testify on the U.S. Small Business
    Administration's continuing efforts to empower veteran
    entrepreneurship and small business ownership.
        We do this by executing programs and policies that maximize
    the availability of SBA services for veterans, service members,
    and their spouses. We are grateful for this committee's
    continued support of SBA's programs to provide training and
    counseling, access to capital, and federal procurement
    opportunities for our nation's heroes and job creators.
        As small business owners, veterans continue to serve our
    country by creating critical employment opportunities and
    driving economic growth. They possess the skills, discipline,
    and leadership to start and operate successful businesses in
    their communities. In fact, veterans over-index in
    entrepreneurship and are at least 45 percent more likely than
    those with no active duty military experience to be self-
    employed. Nearly one in 10 small businesses are veteran-owned,
    and these businesses generate over $1.2 trillion in receipts
    annually and employ nearly 5.8 million Americans.
        SBA's programs are making a significant positive impact to
    ensure that we create the next greatest generation of veteran
    small business owners. This year, to provide training and
    counseling, we executed on our first appropriation for Boots to
    Business, the entrepreneurship track of the DOD's Transition
    Assistance Program, known as TAP. This has trained over 27,000
    transitioning service members and their spouses to date.
        Working through the interagency governance of TAP, we are
    extending Boots to Business to all active duty service members
    and spouses at any point during their service through the
    Military Lifecycle Strategy. And, with support and active
    participation from the private sector, nonprofit NSBA resource
    partners, we are extending this program to veterans of every
    era and their families through a program we call Boots to
    Business Reboot.
        For access to capital, we will sustain the SBA's Veterans
    Advantage Policy to waive fees for veterans and their families
    that qualify for SBA guaranteed loans of $350,000 and below,
    and reduce fees by half for SBA guaranteed loans between
    $350,000 and $5 million. This policy has already saved veterans
    over $8.6 million in fees since January 1, 2014.
        In the area of federal contracting, we are very pleased to
    report that the SBA's leadership will soon announce that the
    federal government exceeded the three percent goal for
    contracting with service-disabled, veteran-owned small
    businesses for the third straight year.
        We continue to provide funding to programs for our severely
    disabled veterans, called the Entrepreneurship Boot Camp for
    Veterans with Disabilities, as well as programs for women
    veterans, called the Veteran Women Igniting the Spirit of
    Entrepreneurship program.
        OVBD's commitment to its mission extends to and is enabled
    by our partners. Our network of 15 Veteran Business Outreach
    Centers, known as VBOCs, is the cornerstone of our delivery
    model. These VBOCs serve as providers and integrators of
    business assistance and maintain the expertise to refer
    veterans to other federal and local service providers, as well.
    In many cases, VBOCs are extensions of SBA's business offices
    and assist SBA employees assigned as Veteran Business
    Development Officers.
        Our 15 VBOCs extend the services nationwide by
    collaborating extensively within SBA's network of resource
    partners, which also includes Small Business Development
    Centers, Women's Business Centers, and SCORE. This
    collaboration allows VBOCs to maximize SBA's integration of
    service and knowledge for veterans, as exemplified by the VBOC
    Directors who will testify today.
        Our partnership model also extends to other veteran
    entrepreneurship centers of excellence, such as the Institute
    for Veterans and Military Families at Syracuse University, who
    is also appearing today.
        SBA's innovative private partnership framework enables our
    effectiveness, and importantly, our efficiency. Our
    collaboration produces success stories like Mr. Timothy Page.
    After serving 27 years on active duty in the U.S. Army, Tim
    attended Boots to Business at Fort Meade in Maryland as the
    first step of his transition mission to pursue small business
    ownership. His idea was to create eco-friendly car washes that
    he calls Auto Spas, and through the facilitation of Mr. Mark
    Williams and SBA's Boots to Business Program, he was introduced
    to Ms. Melissa Dent, who is a counselor at the Maryland Small
    Business Development Center, who helped him develop a business
    plan.
        Just this past May, Tim competed in a business plan
    competition that was privately funded specifically for Boots to
    Business graduates, and that is where he won first place and
    $30,000 in seed capital. His first Auto Spa will open in
    Forestville, Maryland, in the spring of next year.
        While Tim's story is a great example of how our programs
    and partners integrate to empower veteran entrepreneurship, it
    also highlights a gap that we must address, and that is access
    to capital. We can and must do more to get capital, and in
    particular start-up or seed capital, into the hands of veterans
    like Tim. We must also strengthen and modernize our information
    technology infrastructure so that we may sustain our programs
    and make SBA more accessible.
        In addition, we must enable data sharing between SBA and
    federal agencies, such as the Departments of Defense, Labor,
    and Veterans Affairs, as well as external partners. This will
    allow us to synchronize our efforts, connect veterans and
    military spouses with the resources they need, and report on
    essential performance outcomes, such as business formation,
    capital acquired, and the creation of jobs.
        Thank you for the opportunity to testify today and to
    highlight our mission. By authorizing our work, you are
    mandating that the United States government does all it should
    to provide the American dream of business ownership to those
    who have fought and continue to fight every day for our
    country.
        Thank you, sir.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Carson follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Vitter. Great. Thank you very much, Ms. Carson.
        And now, we will move to Dr. Haynie.

       STATEMENT OF J. MICHAEL HAYNIE, VICE CHANCELLOR, SYRACUSE
     UNIVERSITY, AND DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR VETERANS AND MILITARY
                                FAMILIES

        Mr. Haynie. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, thank
    you very much for the opportunity to spend a little time
    talking about an issue that is a personal passion of mine. As
    both a military veteran and also an entrepreneurship professor,
    veteran business ownership really does represent for me the
    nexus of two passions.
        Beyond my written testimony, I think what I will spend my
    time doing is just reflecting on just how far I think we have
    come as a community over the course of the last eight years or
    so.
        I left active duty service in 2006. I was fortunate that
    while I was a serving Air Force officer, the Air Force sent me
    off to get a Ph.D. in business strategy and entrepreneurship,
    so I made my transition from military service directly to a
    role at Syracuse University as an entrepreneurship professor
    and found myself in a situation where I saw an opportunity to
    leverage that new role in service to the only professional
    community that I had ever known, which were military and
    veterans.
        I created a program in Syracuse in 2007 called the
    Entrepreneurship Boot Camp for Veterans with Disabilities, a
    program designed to empower our wounded warriors who may face
    barriers to traditional employment as a consequence of some of
    the disability challenges that they may face so that they could
    leverage self-employment as a path forward.
        I share that story only to suggest, at the time, there was
    very little focus on business ownership, particularly
    institutionalized focus on business ownership, as a path
    through the transition process. And, I know that because the
    very first opportunity I had to go talk to some soldiers about
    this new program that we were trying to create was several
    months prior to the first offering. I went to Walter Reed and
    about 200 soldiers in a Wednesday morning Commander's Call in a
    gym and talked to them about business ownership, and after I
    was finished, one of the vocational counselors there spent some
    time scolding me about talking to transitioning soldiers about
    business ownership because it is too hard and they are going to
    fail.
        I, again, share that story only as a means to reflect on
    the fact that today, with the introduction, for example, of
    Boots to Business, we now have institutionalized a path to the
    transition to civilian life focused on business ownership in a
    way that is very, very powerful, and, I think, empowering to
    this community.
        We look at programs like the EBV program I mentioned, the
    VWISE program. In my two minutes, I will also share that VWISE
    is a program that was created in 2010 at the request of the
    Small Business Administration, but as an entrepreneurship
    professor, that first conversation, I pushed back a little bit.
    I was not sure why we would create a business ownership
    training program specifically for women, because there is
    nothing necessarily that says to me I would train a woman to be
    a business owner any differently than I would train a man. As a
    veteran, I jumped right to veterans, our veterans.
        I could not have been more wrong, however, and I commend
    the SBA for pushing to explore that path, because one of the
    things I realized when we delivered the first program in San
    Antonio, Texas, in 2011, was that many of the women that
    participated, many of the female veterans that participated,
    maybe had been out of the military five, seven, 10, 15 years,
    and this was the first veterans-related event that they had
    ever participated in.
        And, exploring that motivation, what we found is that as a
    consequence of the fact that women are much less likely to
    self-identify as veterans, they are also much less likely to
    participate in typical veteran-focused events, trainings,
    because they will represent a stark minority in the context of
    many of those programs, and importantly, we also heard from
    some of those participants that they do not necessarily always
    feel safe, and when I mean--physically safe is what they are
    referring to--at some typical veterans' events.
        The outcomes that we have realized from the VWISE program
    over the course of the last four years or so have been
    remarkable. Forty-one million in revenue was generated by
    businesses created by VWISE graduates. Sixty-five percent of
    those going through the program have created businesses. And,
    they are hiring, and they are hiring other veterans. Currently,
    the average number of employees from VWISE-created businesses
    exceeds four. That is a very powerful outcome for that
    particular program, and it is an outcome that actually exceeds
    what you would see from like training programs.
        So, with that, I will say I am excited for the opportunity
    to both work with this body, to expand opportunity for veteran
    business ownership, and I am broadly excited for the future
    because I think this is a community on the edge of really doing
    remarkable things as an engine for the economy of this country.
    Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Haynie follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Vitter. Great. Thank you, Dr. Haynie.
        And now, we will move to Mr. Daugherty. Welcome.

    STATEMENT OF SCOTT R. DAUGHERTY, ASSISTANT VICE CHANCELLOR FOR
      ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, NORTH CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY, AND
     STATE DIRECTOR, NORTH CAROLINA SMALL BUSINESS TECHNOLOGY AND
                           DEVELOPMENT CENTER

        Mr. Daugherty. Good morning.
        Chairman Vitter. Good morning.
        Mr. Daugherty. Mr. Chairman, Senator Hirono, I am the State
    Director of the North Carolina SBTDC. I am also here today
    representing the Association of Small Business Development
    Centers, which, as you know, are the 63 SBA-funded SBDCs around
    the country and across the globe.
        My remarks are really based on 30 years' worth of working
    at--working on how to help small businesses and veteran-owned
    businesses be successful. I have been Chairman of our National
    Association multiple times, probably due to brain injury
    earlier in my life.
        [Laughter.]
        But, I have had opportunities to engage with many, many of
    my colleagues around the country. Your own SBDC Director in
    Louisiana, Rande Kessler, and I have been very interactive.
    And, I have a pretty good appreciation for what that resource
    can do.
        As you noted, I am a veteran. I am personally and deeply
    committed to services from whatever source that will help the
    women and men of the military find opportunities to realize the
    American dream and create a business.
        The SBDCs are actually the SBA's largest and most impactful
    resource in the country for business assistance. They have an
    unrivaled national presence, multiple locations in each state
    and locality. We are viewed as highly successful. I can tell
    you that we are highly introspective, measure everything, just
    like in the military we used to paint rocks that did not move.
    We count and measure everything. We want to know why we are
    doing, what we are doing, and how we are doing.
        SBDCs have a very long and successful record of serving
    veterans going back to the days when the primary tool for
    veterans leaving the military was the TAP program at the
    military installations. That certainly has been true of our
    SBDC in North Carolina for many, many years.
        The other thing that I think is often overlooked in this
    process, and I am going to talk briefly about this in a moment,
    but the assistance and resources to veterans and those
    leaving--transitioning from the military is more than an
    educational program. It really is an opportunity through
    resources like the SBDCs to gain that trusted business advisor
    relationship with a counselor who can provide probing questions
    and guidance on how to move forward.
        Our own service to veterans in North Carolina is
    significant. We have a very substantial military base in our
    communities. Fort Bragg is the largest military installation in
    the United States. Camp Lejeune is the Marines' East Coast
    representative. We have an Air Force base with an active
    fighter wing, and, believe it or not, the largest and most busy
    Coast Guard air station in the United States.
        We have had a lot of opportunity to provide instructional
    support along with partners in the Boots to Business program
    around our State, but most important is the one-on-one
    counseling that we provide to the businesses. Twelve to 14
    percent of our client base, which is around 4,200 to 4,500
    counseling clients a year--12 to 14 percent are veterans. And,
    that is reflective of our big military presence, but it is also
    reflective of our interest in serving them.
        To give you a little idea on the scalability of things,
    there are around 24.6 million veterans in the country and that
    is roughly 12 percent of the national population. It is a
    declining number, though, as veterans from World War II and the
    Korean War have declined, and now it is my era, the Vietnam War
    era veterans that are passing on, as well. The current military
    is about one percent of our national population, and so one of
    the consequences is that we can anticipate that the actual
    veteran population will begin to decline slightly in the years
    ahead.
        You are considering legislation on the Small Business
    Development Act, and it has applicability to our ability to
    serve the needs of veterans in the years ahead. A renewed and
    continuing commitment to helping existing veterans and those
    who are transitioning is a very laudable and noble undertaking.
    I support it. I have a few concerns, and I would like to share
    just a couple of observations.
        First, the new business start-up process, which is what we
    have been talking about much of this time with the prior panel
    and their start-up experience, it is a process. You do not just
    wake up one morning, you are a successful business owner. It
    has four steps.
        The first is the information gathering step, where folks
    will independently or through some sort of program like the TAP
    program or the Boots to Business program, which they are
    offering at the various military installations, is you take in
    information.
        The second is kind of the processing part of it, and that
    is reflecting on what you have heard and learned in that
    preliminary environment and making some conscious decisions
    about do I proceed with a plan to start a business.
        And that is when you get to what I characterize as the
    action planning step of the process. That is typically maybe a
    longer-term educational program, like your eight-part online
    service, and most SBDCs have some sort of multi-week program.
        Chairman Vitter. Mr. Daugherty, if I can just ask you to
    wrap up.
        Mr. Daugherty. All right. Anyway, so you have multiple
    stages.
        What I would leave you with is this. You already have a
    very robust service delivery network. We ought to capitalize on
    that and utilize that network for delivery of enhanced services
    to veterans and to transitioning veterans. So, I encourage you
    to look at the SBDCs as a delivery mechanism.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Daugherty follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Vitter. Great. Thank you very much.
        And now, Mr. McCaffrey.

    TESTIMONY OF CHARLES W. McCAFFREY, DIRECTOR, VETERANS BUSINESS
    OUTREACH CENTER AT COMMUNITY BUSINESS PARTNERSHIP, SPRINGFIELD,
                                   VA

        Mr. McCaffrey. I would like to thank the members of the
    committee for allowing me this opportunity this morning to
    testify. I encourage the committee's continued support of
    veteran entrepreneurship programs.
        As was noted earlier, I am a Navy veteran with 20 years of
    military and government contracting service. I am also a repeat
    business owner offender, if you will, first as a partner in an
    Italian deli and market in State College, Pennsylvania, more
    recently as a management consultant here in the metro D.C.
    area.
        When I transitioned from the military, we had a two-day
    program that taught you how to get veterans' benefits, how to
    write a resume, and to tie a double Windsor. I am happy to say
    that we have expanded those programs and I am very honored to
    be able to lend my experience to assisting my fellow veterans.
        The organization I represent, Community Business
    Partnership, was founded in 1995 and is a nonprofit
    organization working in collaboration with local, regional, and
    national organizations to promote small business growth in our
    communities. We are a sponsored program of George Mason
    University under the Office of Research and Economic
    Development.
        We accomplish our mission through a variety of separately
    funded programs, including a Small Business Development Center,
    a Women's Business Center, a Business Finance Center, and a
    Business Incubation Center that provide training and
    counseling, access to capital, low-cost office and meeting
    space, networking opportunities geared to meet the needs of
    today's small business owners. On May 1 of this year, we were
    also designated as a Veteran Business Outreach Center for the
    National Capital Region, including Northern Virginia,
    Washington, D.C., Maryland, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin
    Islands.
        Although we only recently received designation as a VBOC,
    Community Business Partnership has a long history of supporting
    veteran entrepreneurship. For the past 10 years, we have hosted
    the Veterans in Business Conference. What started as a small
    gathering of 25 veteran business owners has grown to the
    premier veterans' entrepreneurship conference in the metro D.C.
    area, bringing together more than 275 veteran business owners,
    federal agency representatives, prime contractors, nonprofits,
    and service providers each year.
        In 2012, we were approached by the TAP office at Marine
    Corps Base Henderson Hall to provide entrepreneurship training
    to transitioning Marines as part of the Department of Defense
    Entrepreneurship Pathway. At the time, Boots to Business was an
    unfunded program requirement that involved significant
    commitment from limited resources. But having supported
    socially and economically disadvantaged small business owners
    for many years, we knew this was a worthwhile initiative and we
    became part of the pilot program.
        In 2014, Community Business Partnership, along with the SBA
    Washington District Office and its resource partners, ranked
    number one in the country for total number of Boots to Business
    classes held and total number of attendees. In addition, we
    participated in the Boots to Business Reboot Program held at
    the Eisenhower Executive Office Building with 110 attendees
    comprised of veterans and their families.
        In 2015, we are positioned to provide Boots to Business
    classes at 16 military installations and in the metro D.C. area
    as well as a Reboot program and monthly one-day intensive
    business plan bootcamps.
        In 2014, Community Business Partnership held 244 training
    events with 3,430 attendees and provided 1,119 hours of
    counseling to 413 clients. Veterans make up 11 percent of our
    training clients and 17 percent of our counseling clients, and
    we would not be able to achieve these numbers were it not for
    the many public and private partners that we work with,
    including local Chambers of Commerce, Economic Development
    Authorities, Objective Rally Point D.C., and Dog Tag Bakery,
    just to name a few.
        As proud as I am of the numbers representing our support of
    veteran entrepreneurs, it is actually their successes that
    really tell the story. Staci Redmon is a third-generation
    service-disabled veteran. After 20 years of federal service,
    she started Strategy and Management Services in 2008 to work in
    the federal contacting arena. Staci was a participant in the
    first veterans' entrepreneurship mentoring group started by
    Fairfax SBDC in 2010, was a resident business at the Business
    Incubation Center at Community Business Partnership. She
    received training from our Women's Business Center and lending
    assistance from our Business Finance Center. Through budget
    cuts, sequestration, and furloughs, SAMS has endured with the
    support of Community Business Partnership and closed their 2014
    fiscal year generating $13.5 million in revenue and employing
    130 individuals.
        In 2013, Staci received the Virginia Small Business Veteran
    of the Year Award from the Virginia SBDC Network, and Staci
    exemplifies the spirit of that award in service to her country,
    success in business, and involvement with her community. And,
    she also embodies the long-term commitment that the SBA
    resource partners strive for with our clients.
        Again, I thank you for the opportunity to testify today and
    to share our efforts and their successes in veteran
    entrepreneurship.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. McCaffrey follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Vitter. Okay. Thank you all very much for being
    here, for your testimony, both oral and written.
        Now, we will go to Senator Hirono.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Thank you all for testifying. What I get from all of your
    testimony is that we have a number of programs that are
    specifically targeting veterans, and it appears as though there
    is quite a lot of collaboration that is already occurring, so
    that is really good to know.
        I was struck by, is it Mr. Daugherty, you mentioned a four-
    step process which is too often not addressed by the various
    programs and initiatives that we have to help our veterans. I
    know you ran out of time. Did you have a suggestion as to how
    we can better address these four steps?
        In fact, one of the steps that I was curious about is the
    reflective part. Is there counseling, or are they the
    challenges of opening a business? Is that the point at which
    that kind of information would be helpful to the veteran?
        Mr. Daugherty. Yes. I think----
        Senator Hirono. Could you expand a little bit more?
        Mr. Daugherty. I think it is. The important element in the
    process is that training is a piece of it, reflection is a
    piece of it, and access to business advisory services to kind
    of sort through the options and opportunities, and how do you
    think through it and build a plan that will allow you to be
    successful?
        And, too many of the programs have a piece and do not have
    that other piece. You are just hoping that occurs. And, what
    you want is something that is integrated, that provides an
    opportunity. So, it could be a training program like the one
    you have developed, but there ought to be a direct connection
    to your business advisory resources in terms of delivery of
    that kind of consultative support to the clients. I think it
    would be very helpful.
        Senator Hirono. You noted that the SBDCs, those are a
    nationwide SBA small business effort to help small businesses,
    and I am familiar with a couple of them in Hawaii. The SBDCs,
    would that be a setting for the kind of more complete support
    that you are talking about, Mr. Daugherty?
        Mr. Daugherty. Well, it exists. It is already out there.
    They are already serving veterans. And, there are lots of
    terrific ideas we heard in the first panel. They are really
    great. But, if you are talking about the application of very
    scarce federal-level resources, how do you get the best bang
    for the buck to assure that there is integration?
        Sometimes within agencies, you know, there are silos, and I
    am not----
        Senator Hirono. Yes.
        Mr. Daugherty [continuing]. Speaking out of turn.
        Senator Hirono. No.
        Mr. Daugherty. You know, you have an office----
        Chairman Vitter. You are not shocking us, do not worry.
        Mr. Daugherty. No, exactly.
        [Laughter.]
        So, you have an Office of Small Business Development. You
    have got a veterans' office. And then you have got this thing
    called field operations, which is kind of disconnected from all
    three of them in terms--so you are really relying in the end at
    the local level, the goodwill of folks to make it happen as
    opposed to it being part of a strategic way to think about the
    delivery of service.
        Senator Hirono. Ms. Carson, would you like to weigh in on
    how we can create a more integrated way to respond to the needs
    of the veterans who want to have their own businesses?
        Ms. Carson. Thank you for the opportunity to do so. I think
    that I could turn to Mr. McCaffrey, as well, and say that one
    of the--we identified the same problem that Mr. Daugherty has
    identified, which is a lack of integration and then a
    difficulty in getting the word out to the veterans who need
    these resources.
        So, the Veteran Business Outreach Center, we just competed
    14 of those grants this spring, and the criteria within it
    included--it was heavily weighted, as well. You must show a
    partnership. What is your network? What is your knowledge of
    all the resources that are available to veteran entrepreneurs?
    And, it was a competitive process.
        So, that is in one place where we are showing that we
    recognize as an agency, a federal agency, that we absolutely do
    not have all the right ideas, nor the funds to enact them, but
    we do have partnerships and knowledge, and my office is
    accountable for knowing what those are across the federal
    space, connecting at the state level and local levels where it
    really happens. If I cannot get a local lender to help a
    veteran entrepreneur get access to capital, then something is
    not right at the higher levels. So, we are engaging at every
    level.
        And, as Mr. Daugherty said, good will is not enough in all
    cases. So, we have done things like funding our resource
    partners to help us deliver Boots to Business across the nation
    and around the world with the help of the Institute for
    Veterans and Military Families.
        So, I would like to say that we do hear this concern and we
    are absolutely acting on it to better integrate and optimize
    what is available for veterans, and I really want the Veteran
    Business Outreach Centers to be that first point, that triage,
    if you will, for a vet, that they will not have everything for
    everyone, but they know enough to transfer them to----
        Senator Hirono. Right now--excuse me. My time is----
        Ms. Carson. Sorry.
        Senator Hirono. Oh, it is up. Do you mind if I----
        Chairman Vitter. Go ahead.
        Senator Hirono. A couple more minutes. So, there are only
    15 Veterans Business Outreach Centers, so I do not know where
    these 15 centers are. Do you have one in Hawaii, for example?
        Ms. Carson. No, I do not have one in Hawaii. The Women's
    Business Development Center out of Chicago does service Hawaii
    and is already in coordination with the SBA district office
    there.
        Senator Hirono. Is there an intention to have these
    outreach centers in every state, or are you working through the
    VBOCs?
        Ms. Carson. The VBOCs----
        Senator Hirono. I mean--there are all these acronyms.
    SBDCs.
        [Laughter.]
        SBDCs. I know you have SBDCs in Hawaii.
        Ms. Carson. Currently, we are authorized and appropriated
    for 15, and that is what we have. So, we make the most of that
    network by building upon our partnerships that also exist
    within SBA, the SBDCs, SCORE, and Women's Business Centers to
    reach every state and territory for our veterans.
        Senator Hirono. So, if I were to contact the SBDC on the
    big island, for example, which I have visited with, and started
    talking with them about the veterans business outreach efforts,
    they would be familiar with all of the resources?
        Ms. Carson. They have been a fantastic partner in our
    veteran programs and initiatives on their own, and we are
    integrating them with the Women's Business Development Center
    in Chicago, which just stood up. It is a recent awardee. So,
    together, they will service your veterans in Hawaii very well.
        Senator Hirono. I just want to end by thanking all of you,
    particularly, Dr. Haynie, I really appreciated your commitment
    to helping the disabled veterans, and all of you, because that
    may be a very special group of veterans that we ought to
    provide specialized kinds of resources to, just as I thank you
    for your acknowledgement that women veterans should have
    particular programs that are just their needs.
        Mr. Haynie. You are very welcome.
        Senator Hirono. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Vitter. Great. Thank you, and thanks to all of you
    for your testimony, just like our first panel. This was an
    important hearing, including because it is not in a vacuum. As
    I mentioned at the beginning, the committee is working on a
    bipartisan veterans' entrepreneurship bill. We hope to mark it
    up next month. We want all of your continued input, so you will
    certainly get drafts, and please give us all of your input. Mr.
    Daugherty suggested some, and we want to follow up on all of
    that. So, thank you very, very much for your work.
        With that, this hearing is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 11:05 a.m., the committee was adjourned.]

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