    [House Hearing, 114 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

              A REVIEW OF THE TRANSITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM (TAP)

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

                                     OF THE

                         COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
                         U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                           TUESDAY, JANUARY 27, 2015

                                   __________

                                Serial No. 114-4

                                   __________

           Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs

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             Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov

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                         COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                         JEFF MILLER, Florida, Chairman

    DOUG LAMBORN, Colorado               CORRINE BROWN, Florida, Ranking
    GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida, Vice-         Minority Member
        Chairman                         MARK TAKANO, California
    DAVID P. ROE, Tennessee              JULIA BROWNLEY, California
    DAN BENISHEK, Michigan               DINA TITUS, Nevada
    TIM HUELSKAMP, Kansas                RAUL RUIZ, California
    MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado               ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire
    BRAD R. WENSTRUP, Ohio               BETO O'ROURKE, Texas
    JACKIE WALORSKI, Indiana             KATHLEEN RICE, New York
    RALPH ABRAHAM, Louisiana             TIMOTHY J. WALZ, Minnesota
    LEE ZELDIN, New York                 JERRY McNERNEY, California
    RYAN COSTELLO, Pennsylvania
    AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, American
        Samoa
    MIKE BOST, Illinois
                           Jon Towers, Staff Director
                    Don Phillips, Democratic Staff Director

                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

                         BRAD WENSTRUP, Ohio, Chairman

    LEE ZELDIN, New York                 MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking
    AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, American        Member
        Samoa                            DINA TITUS, Nevada
    RYAN COSTELLO, Pennsylvania          KATHLEEN RICE, New York
    MIKE BOST, Illinois                  JERRY McNERNEY, California

    Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of rule XI of the Rules of the House, public
    hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also
    published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the
    official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare
    both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process
    of converting between various electronic formats may introduce
    unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the
    current publication process and should diminish as the process is
    further refined.

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                           Tuesday, January 27, 2015

                                                                       Page

    A Review of the Transition Assistance Program (TAP)..............     1

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

    Brad Wenstrup, Chairman..........................................     1
    Mark Takano, Ranking Member......................................     2

                                   WITNESSES

    Mr. Davy Leghorn, Assistant Director, The Veteran Education and
      Employment Commission, The American Legion.....................     4
        Prepared Statement...........................................    34
    Mr. Ryan M. Gallucci, Deputy Director, NVS, Veterans of Foreign
      Wars of the United States......................................     5
        Prepared Statement...........................................    39
    Ms. Valrica Marshall Dunmyer, Chief of Staff and Chief Financial
      Officer, Student Veterans of America...........................     7
        Prepared Statement...........................................    47
    Colonel David W. Sutherland, U.S. Army (Ret.) Chairman and Co-
      Founder, Easter Seals Dixon Center.............................     9
        Prepared Statement...........................................    51
    Mr. Curtis L. Coy, Deputy Under Secretary for Economic
      Opportunity, VBA, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs..........    23
        Prepared Statement...........................................    62
    Ms. Teresa W. Gerton, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Veterans'
      Employment and Training Service, U.S. Department of Labor......    25
        Prepared Statement...........................................    68
    Dr. Susan Kelly,, Director, Transition to Veterans Program
      Office, Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel
      and Readiness, Department of Defense...........................    26
        Prepared Statement...........................................    76

              A REVIEW OF THE TRANSITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM (TAP)

                                  ----------

                           Tuesday, January 27, 2015

                 U.S. House of Representatives,
                        Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                          Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity,
                                                       Washington, D.C.
        The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:00 p.m., in
    Room 334, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Brad Wenstrup
    [chairman of the subcommittee] presiding.
        Present:  Representatives Wenstrup, Costello, Radewagen,
    Takano, Titus, and Rice.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN BRAD WENSTRUP

        Dr. Wenstrup. Well good afternoon, everyone. I want to
    welcome you all to the first hearing of the Subcommittee on
    Economic Opportunity for the 114th Congress. I have to tell you
    I am very honored to serve as chairman of this subcommittee and
    I look forward to working with Ranking Member Takano and other
    members to improve economic opportunities for our nation's
    veterans. Before we begin I will tell you that Mr. Coffman may
    join us and I ask unanimous consent that our colleague Mr.
    Coffman be allowed to join us at the dais and ask questions.
    Hearing no objection, so ordered.
        We are here today to discuss implementation of the
    Transition Assistance Program, or TAP. TAP is a critically
    important step for today's servicemembers because if we can get
    TAP right for them at the onset of their transition from active
    duty I believe we can mitigate many other issues that have
    plagued and continue to plague previous generations of
    America's veterans.
        The information on financial management, job search skills,
    and veteran benefits are light years away from what was being
    provided to servicemembers under previous versions of TAP,
    which was called by many death by PowerPoint. And while the
    structure of TAP has been greatly improved we can and should do
    more and I want to briefly make a few points.
        It has been suggested by some that there is no need to
    continue to provide TAP in a classroom setting and that the
    online version is sufficient. While I agree that the online
    version can be helpful it was designed to only be a supplement
    to the classroom version and not to replace it. I understand
    that in a constrained fiscal environment the services have had
    the difficult task of implementing the VOW Act provision which
    made TAP mandatory. But I believe that focusing only on the
    online version would shortchange our servicemembers of
    critically important information.
        I also want to echo the comments from the past two chairmen
    of this subcommittee by saying that I believe DoD is missing
    the mark by not making the education track mandatory for those
    servicemembers who are planning to use their G.I. Bill benefits
    upon transition. Under the right circumstances the Post 9/11
    G.I. Bill can provide over $300,000 worth of benefits to a
    veteran and with thousands of schools and training programs
    clamoring for veteran students we must do everything we can to
    make sure our servicemembers are provided with all the
    information and tools they need to make an informed choice on
    the right school and how to use their educational benefits. Now
    from everything I have heard the education track does a great
    job in preparing servicemembers as they make this life changing
    choice and I believe it should be mandatory for servicemembers
    who are choosing to use their G.I. Bill benefits.
        Another issue that I hope to hear more about today is how
    VA, DoD, and DoL are measuring and tracking performance and
    long term outcomes of TAP. Without measurable outcomes it is
    impossible to know for certain if this new curriculum is
    working. I know that hard statistics for a program like this
    can be difficult but I look forward to learning more about the
    steps the agencies have taken to track performance. Before I
    recognize the ranking member I do want to commend DoD, VA, and
    the Department of Labor for working together to transform TAP
    over the past two years. While many strides have been made a
    recent report from the VA's Office of Economic Opportunity
    highlighted a new challenge. The report stated that while
    unemployment rates for veterans continue to remain low, over
    half of the Post 9/11 veterans will face a period of
    unemployment upon transition. Helping facilitate a smooth
    transition so that veterans avoid this period of unemployment
    is our challenge and I look forward to exploring ways to
    address this challenge head on in today's hearing.
        I now recognize Ranking Member Takano for his opening
    comments.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER MARK TAKANO

        Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome to the
    Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity, especially to our new
    members Ms. Radewagen and Ms. Rice. We welcome you. I know we
    will accomplish a lot under your stewardship, Mr. Chairman, of
    the committee during this session. Also thank you for your
    continued service to the United States Army and we are excited
    to have that level of experience and understanding that you
    bring from your experience in tackling the economic issues
    facing our veterans.
        Transitioning from the military is a defining moment in all
    of our servicemembers' lives. Upon exiting the military at a
    minimum servicemembers should understand the resources
    available through their branch of service, the benefits
    awaiting them as veterans, and perhaps most importantly how to
    find a job. From a retiring commander to a one-term enlisted
    soldier leaving the military means different things to
    different individuals. There is no one answer as to how we can
    prepare these individuals for what comes next. Yet we have a
    responsibility to give them the best information available to
    help them focus on their next move as civilians. The Transition
    Assistance Program, or TAP, has gone through several iterations
    over the last several years and we expect it to continue to
    evolve as better practices are realized and implemented. The
    latest concept of TAP is Transition GPS, which is designed to
    deliver a wide array of information over a five-day period. One
    of the most important aspects of the program is a briefing on
    financial responsibility and access to financial counseling
    while still on active duty. Too many of our younger
    servicemembers are leaving the military without thinking about
    their financial futures and having access to a trained
    professional who can help guide them toward financial
    responsibility is extremely important. I look forward to
    hearing Dr. Kelly speak to the financial responsibility
    briefing and other aspects of the DoD portion of this training.
        I am also looking forward to hearing from Mr. Coy about the
    VA portion of the training and how veterans are learning about
    how to access their veterans benefits. The Post 9/11 G.I. Bill
    is an incredible education benefit and I am very interested in
    hearing more about how servicemembers are learning about the
    optional education track briefing. Last Congress I was an
    original cosponsor to the legislation introduced by Congressman
    Flores that would have made the education track mandatory. In
    many instances student veterans are unaware of the differences
    between education institutions, the quality of education at
    those institutions, and the likelihood of finding a job upon
    graduation. The education track remains optional for the time
    being and I hope to hear from our agency witnesses that
    servicemembers are being encouraged to take this optional
    course if they are planning to use their education benefits.
        Finally some portions of the Transition GPS training are
    now interactive and online. I am very interested in learning
    more about how servicemembers are utilizing these resources. I
    would also like to welcome our guests from the Veterans of
    Foreign Wars, the American Legion, Student Veterans of America,
    and Easter Seals Dixon Center. I look forward to hearing what
    some of the veterans you speak with are saying about TAP and
    any recommendations you may have.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
        Dr. Wenstrup. I want to thank the Ranking Member for his
    comments and also I would like to reiterate what you said about
    welcoming our new members. I think that you should know that
    this is a committee, a subcommittee, that has great opportunity
    to really do a lot of benefit for our members of our country
    that serve in uniform, and for their families and their lives
    as they move forward and they leave the military. But now I
    would like to welcome our first panel to the witness table.
    First we have Mr. Davy Leghorn, Assistant Director of the
    Veteran Education and Employment Commission for the American
    Legion; Mr. Ryan Gallucci, Deputy Director of the National
    Veterans Service for the Veterans of Foreign Wars; Ms. Valrica
    Dunmyer, Chief of Staff and Chief Financial Officer for Student
    Veterans of America; and finally Colonel David Sutherland,
    Chairman and Co-Founder of the Easter Seals Dixon Center. I
    want thank you all for being here, for your service to our
    nation, and for those in uniform, and for your continued hard
    work and advocacy for veterans. Mr. Leghorn, we will begin with
    you. You are now recognized for five minutes.

                     STATEMENT OF MR. DAVY LEGHORN

        Mr. Leghorn. Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, and
    distinguished members of the subcommittee, on behalf of
    National Commander Michael Helm and the 2.4 million members of
    the American Legion, we thank you for this opportunity to
    testify at this hearing on improving the Transition Assistance
    Program and veterans' transition in general.
        Over the past two years the American Legion has intensely
    scrutinized the new TAP, observing it in operation across the
    country. The testimony we present today reflects this scrutiny
    and provides observations as well as recommendations for
    improvement. In general we were highly impressed both by the
    amount and the quality of information that was conveyed,
    particularly in such a relatively short period of time.
        The American Legion has long advocated for the inclusion of
    VSOs in TAP. VSOs provide important services to transitioning
    servicemembers and we are pleased to note that during the TAP
    sessions we observed the attendees were referred to VSOs for
    claim services by the TAP instructors. We would, however, like
    to offer some recommendations. The first regards a need to
    increase emphasis on soft skills, that is behaviors and
    etiquette that makes an individual employable. The vast
    majority of personnel leaving the armed services have not had
    significant experience working in a civilian work setting. We
    believe that insufficient emphasis is placed on these soft
    skills during TAP. Further, a five-day course cannot hope to
    teach behaviors obtained by spending a substantial part of
    one's adult life in a civilian work place. However, we believe
    that transitioning servicemembers would benefit if there were
    more discussions of workplace culture.
        The second regards an improvement to the information on
    education that is provided in TAP. With the Post 9/11 G.I. Bill
    every transitioning servicemember has access to the opportunity
    to attend a higher education program, or in some instances
    transfer the benefit to their dependents. As such we recommend
    that the educational track incorporate more input from the
    Department of Education and that the education track of
    Transition GPS be made mandatory for all transitioning
    servicemembers.
        We believe that part of the solution to veterans
    unemployment lies in a collaboration between government
    entities and the private sector. As such the American Legion as
    responded by bringing Employment Workshops and hiring events to
    transitioning servicemembers. Our Employment and Empowerment
    Summit is a two-day event that ends with a job fair. We host
    this summit in various cities and provide transportation and
    lodging to servicemembers going through TAP. Servicemembers
    attending our events have had the chance to learn about various
    opportunities in fields ranging from the banking industry to
    the trades and are able to receive some preliminary instruction
    on the aforementioned soft skills needed to gain and maintain
    employment. Unfortunately at some locations we are met with
    resistance from contracted TAP facilitators. Contractually TAP
    facilitators are evaluated based on a limited scope of
    performance measures, thus there is a lack of incentive for
    them to work outside the confines of their own programs.
    Amending DoD contracts for TAP facilitators to include a
    section regarding required collaboration with trusted private
    sector actors would solve this problem fairly easily.
        We recognize that one of TAP's main roles is to introduce
    the employment services available to veterans and to provide a
    warm handoff to the agencies that administer those programs.
    However, we have become aware of an issue affecting veterans
    employment services that are funded by the JVSG and
    administered through DoL VETS. Last spring DoL issued a
    directive creating a hard distinction between disabled veteran
    outreach program representatives and the local veterans
    employment representatives which are funded by the JVSG grants
    and are located at DoL job centers across the country.
    Essentially this disallows DVOPs from seeing non-service
    disabled veterans even if they have time. DoL's self-imposed
    restrictions undermine the flexibility required to best serve
    veterans who are in need of employment services. These
    restrictions are contrary to the federal statute and have
    generated negative feedback from the field. The American Legion
    is adamant that a regulatory or legislative change
    reinstituting the roles of DVOP and LVERs by DoL would provide
    a significant improvement to the JVSG program. The American
    Legion is working with the office of Senator Pat Toomey of
    Pennsylvania to introduce a bill that would make this change
    explicit in the statute should DoL fail to make the regulatory
    change.
        Overall the American Legion believes that the new TAP
    program represents an important step towards providing
    transitioning servicemembers with the information that they
    need to become successful. While there exists some shortcomings
    that require attention the program overall appears to be
    successful and implementation has been commendable. The
    American Legion looks forward to continuing our work with the
    agencies and with Congress to continue to improve this valuable
    resource for our transitioning servicemembers.

        [The prepared statement of Davy Leghorn appears in the
    Appendix]

        Dr. Wenstrup. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Leghorn.
    Mr. Gallucci, you are now recognized for five minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF MR. RYAN M. GALLUCCI

        Mr. Gallucci. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Wenstrup,
    Ranking Member Takano, and members of the subcommittee, thank
    you for the opportunity to present the VFW's thoughts on the
    Military Transition Assistance Program, or TAP.
        The VFW has long recognized the need to provide
    transitioning servicemembers with a quality baseline of
    information with which to make informed decisions about their
    post-military lives. Over the past few years this subcommittee
    has driven significant change in TAP. The agencies responsible
    have rebuilt the program from the ground up and worked to
    foster consistency by introducing contract facilitators,
    individual curriculum tracks, and access to post-service TAP.
    My remarks will focus on these three areas.
        First, the VFW generally agrees with the shift to contract
    facilitators, freeing up local resources to serve veterans.
    However, the shift has had some unintended consequences and the
    VFW encourages striking a proper balance on contract
    facilitation and local need. The VFW also recognizes that the
    military has made a significant investment in TAP in
    anticipation of the current military draw down. More
    transitioning servicemembers require more staff and more
    classroom space. As DoD seeks to meet this demand we must not
    forget that VSOs still play a critical role in transition. To
    assist in the process the VFW has professional staff on more
    than a dozen military installations with plans to expand.
        Our staff provides free assistance to servicemembers
    seeking to file for VA disability benefits prior to separation.
    To do so we rely on our military hosts and TAP for access and
    support. Outgoing Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel recognized
    this in his recent memo to installation commanders, which
    outlines how they should provide for VSOs that deliver VA
    accredited, face-to-face services to transitioning
    servicemembers. Adherence to this memo is critical to the VFW
    as we see a correlation between exposure and access and the
    number of servicemembers seeking representation. We see fewer
    claims on installations where our access is limited, despite
    the increase in those leaving the military.
        Next, the VFW applauds the hard work of the contract VA
    briefing facilitators, many of whom are recently transitioned
    veterans. However, we question why the contract leaves such
    little flexibility to adapt to local needs. We encourage VA and
    the subcommittee to review the contract and offer flexibility
    to reintegrate local resources like VSOs and reasonably adapt
    the curriculum to suit the audience.
        Next, we must ensure consistent access to the new TAP
    tracks, as well as consistent delivery of timely and relevant
    training. During VFW's recent visits to our staff on military
    bases we spoke with those responsible for implementing TAP.
    They acknowledge that the training is a marked improvement and
    were grateful for the significant recent investment in the
    program, however they worried that unit commanders still
    struggle to see the value in allowing their personnel to
    participate. Sadly, this was not an isolated issue. Though TAP
    is now a commander's program the VFW worries that DoD lacks
    mechanisms to hold commanders accountable. This requires a
    significant cultural shift, one that is unlikely to happen
    during the current draw down. So in an effort to mitigate this
    concern the VFW encouraged DoD to make the curriculum
    accessible online. DoD complied, allowing servicemembers to
    complete the training through their secure JKO accounts.
    However, transitioning servicemembers still have no reasonable
    way to anticipate the specific challenges they will face after
    leaving the military. The simplest solution would be for DoD to
    finalize its information sharing agreement with the Department
    of Labor, offering workforce agencies access to the names of
    veterans returning to their communities. But the agreement is
    once again delayed. This is unacceptable and we encourage
    Congress to act on it.
        Finally, we must continue to invest in the post-service
    availability of TAP. Over the past two years DoL worked with
    its contractors in West Virginia, Georgia, and Washington to
    facilitate 23 workshops as part of the Off Base Transition
    Training, or OBTT pilot program. Some workshops were more
    successful than others, with West Virginia experiencing the
    most success thanks to support from the National Guard. OBTT
    was very cost effective, costing only $52,000 for the entire
    pilot. Through large scale community based TAP classes, OBTT
    serves veterans who otherwise would not have had access to the
    material or who could only rely on the, or could only receive
    the information by meeting one on one with an employment
    counselor. The VFW believes it is more cost effective to
    leverage the current TAP contract to facilitate large training
    sessions like OBTT before veterans meet one on one with
    counselors at American job centers. This way when veterans seek
    out services they are prepared to have a constructive meeting
    to find a job. OBTT expired this month and DoL will not have
    information on outcomes for another year. As we wait for final
    data on OBTT the VFW believes that Congress should at least
    extend the pilot, offering cost effective services to more
    veterans who need it.
        Veterans can also access all the new TAP modules via a
    public facing website offered in joint venture by DoD and
    Department of Labor. The VFW believes this is a game changer
    for veterans. However, to improve the site the VFW recommends
    allowing veterans to navigate directly to modules they need and
    offering links to the participant guides. DoL should also track
    traffic to the site to identify trends and shortcomings in the
    Transition Assistance Program. These minor improvements would
    allow veterans to use the public facing site as an easy
    reference guide.
        TAP is undergoing an amazing revolution and the VFW thanks
    everyone involved for their continued hard work on this
    project. However, we know that there are places that we can
    improve. With the current military draw down it is critical to
    ensure the future success of our war fighters and we look
    forward to working with this subcommittee on ways to make sure
    that we succeed in that mission. Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking
    Member Takano, and members of the committee, this concludes my
    testimony. I am happy to answer any questions you may have.

        [The prepared statement of Ryan Gallucci appears in the
    Appendix]

        Dr. Wenstrup. Thank you, Mr. Gallucci. Ms. Dunmyer, you are
    now recognized for five minutes.

                 STATEMENT OF VALRICA MARSHALL DUNMYER

        Ms. Dunmyer. Thank you, Chairman. Chairman Wenstrup,
    Ranking Member Takano, and other distinguished members of the
    subcommittee, thank you for calling this hearing and for
    continuing to monitor efforts to successfully transition our
    returning veterans out of the military and into civilian life.
    My name is Valrica Dunmyer and I am the Chief of Staff and
    Chief Financial Officer at Student Veterans of America. I am
    also here as a veteran with 26 years of Army service. We are
    honored that you have invited us to be a part of this session
    today.
        On behalf of SVA and its more than 400,000 student veterans
    within a network of more than 1,200 chapter affiliates I am
    pleased to submit our testimony on the review of a Transition
    Assistance Program. SVA advocates for the rights of veterans in
    higher education, rooted in the belief that investing in
    America's veterans today is a smart investment for the country
    tomorrow. SVA's top priorities include improving access to
    higher education and scaling effective services that empower
    student veterans to graduate on time with little to no student
    debt and successfully transition into civilian life.
        Mr. Chairman, as a beneficiary of the current program I
    know that improvements have been made. Nevertheless,
    transitional challenges still exist as evidenced through the
    continuing struggle of our veterans, and more specifically our
    student veterans. One of the main challenges is knowing whether
    the TAP GPS program is truly working on the front end to
    produce the desired outcome on the back end. As of December 2,
    2013 only 72 percent of TAP locations included the higher
    education track offered by the DoD. Now this may seem like a
    high number to you and something to be proud of. But consider
    for a moment, if you are that vet that's in the 28 percent
    group, and your release date is quickly approaching, imagine
    that that is you and you are thinking about getting out and you
    want to pursue a degree. You have not been provided any of the
    information and you have no idea where to start. For those
    veterans the system is still not working.
        Our Million Records Project represents the most
    comprehensive examination of student veterans' post-secondary
    academic success that has ever been done in decades. The
    Million Records Project showed that more than a million
    veterans have used educational benefits from 2002 to 2010.
    Additional data indicates that there will be over five million
    veterans by 2020. These facts, coupled with ongoing budgetary
    constraints, prove that we can no longer hope that our brick
    and mortar delivery of information is sufficient. We must be
    innovative in our approach to information delivery while still
    ensuring the quality of information provided to our veterans.
    Most veterans frown on the current delivery method, describing
    the TAP program as death by Power Point due to the lengthy and
    enormous amount of information delivered. While the basic
    information such as months of Post 9/11 G.I. Bill eligibility
    should continue to be included, we must ensure that our entire
    instructional program is informed through research, best
    practices, and feedback.
        As servicemembers contemplate pursuing a degree following
    the military the utilization of VSOs and VSAs can be looked
    upon as being a force multiplier, providing the necessary link
    between departure from the military and the veteran's
    introduction into civilian life. Veterans service organizations
    like SVA have a proven track record of success, to both its
    members, both today and its alumni, and it should have a seat
    at the table in further discussions. Through research,
    connection with our local SVA chapters, and advocacy, we know
    that the better informed and prepared student veterans are the
    greater the contributions and return on the investment for our
    nation. By integrating SVA and other VSOs into the assessing
    higher education track, we can ensure the same level of success
    for all vets transitioning into higher education.
        We thank the chairman, ranking member, and the subcommittee
    members for your time, attention, and devotion to veterans and
    higher learning. We look forward to continuing to work with
    this subcommittee, the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
    and the Congress to ensure the success of all generations of
    veterans. Thank you.

        [The prepared statement of Valrica Marshall Dunmyer appears
    in the Appendix]

        Dr. Wenstrup. Thank you, Ms. Dunmyer. Colonel Sutherland,
    you are now recognized for five minutes.

                STATEMENT OF COLONEL DAVID W. SUTHERLAND

        Colonel Sutherland. Mr. Chairman and members of the
    subcommittee, my name is David Sutherland. I am representing
    Easter Seals Dixon Center and serve as its chairman. Easter
    Seals is a national nonprofit that helps individuals reach
    their potential through local services. I co-founded Easter
    Seals Dixon Center to forge community partnerships and harness
    local resources to more effectively serve veterans and
    transitioning servicemembers at the community level. As one of
    the 13 surge brigade commanders in Iraq in 2007 I observed
    firsthand the greatness that exists in our formations. And I
    also recognize the potential for greatness when our
    servicemembers come home. Thank you for inviting me to testify
    about the reintegration needs of our servicemembers and the
    role of communities and public-private partnerships.
        I have dedicated the last several years on this very topic,
    both as a special assistant to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs
    of Staff and now at Easter Seals Dixon Center. I am inspired by
    the sea of goodwill among Americans and U.S. communities that
    are ready to assist and welcome home our veterans and military
    families. I have seen that there are just some things that
    government cannot do that independent organizations working
    together locally can. Far too many servicemembers struggle
    during their transition because of missed opportunities and
    disconnected communities. The solution to successful
    transitions lies in American communities. My testimony today
    will focus on what government and communities can do together
    to improve this transition.
        Let me start by saying the government is doing a better
    job. Thanks to steps by Congress and changes to the Transition
    Assistance Program curriculum, including the optional tracks on
    education, technical training, and entrepreneurship. I did not
    benefit from these changes when I attended TAP after 29 years
    in the U.S. Army. That said, TAP continues to lack a mechanism
    to measure outcomes and facilitate warm hand offs into
    communities.
        In my testimony I share the transition experience of a
    Marine named Gary. He completed the new TAP, was self-
    motivated, and had a plan. However, his plan quickly unraveled
    when he hit a string of unfortunate events that left him
    homeless and in crisis. TAP and the military supports end the
    minute you walk off the base and so Gary was on his own. Gary
    and other veterans like him quickly learn that the hard work of
    transition begins after TAP and what typically separates the
    transition success story from a story of struggle is now a
    community welcomes, connects with, and responds to
    transitioning servicemembers.
        Luckily for Gary his home of Cincinnati was prepared to
    assist him. Several months earlier I had helped organize a
    coordinated community response in Cincinnati among Easter Seals
    and other community groups through Operation Veterans Thrive.
    Chairman Wenstrup is very familiar with this effort funded by
    three local community foundations. Gary's initial call into the
    community led to several warm handoffs. First, to local
    organizations to address his immediate needs. Then to Easter
    Seals Tri-State for employment services to help him find a job.
    Gary is firmly on his path towards greatness thanks to a little
    community support during transition.
        The connectedness of Cincinnati was the result of
    comprehensive community asset mapping and community convenings.
    Not all communities are as prepared. Easter Seals Dixon Center
    works across the country to build community partnerships and
    share innovative approaches to assist our veterans. We are
    stronger and more effective by working together.
        While we have succeeded in shepherding community resources
    and fostering community collaborations in places like Ohio, New
    York, California, and Indiana, the need and work continues.
    Congress could make a difference by funding community asset
    mapping and coordination efforts through a community grant.
        While this hearing focuses on initial transition into
    civilian life, reintegration struggles for some can surface
    several months or years after leaving the military. Congress
    has supported care coordination and supportive services models
    to address the most compelling needs, such as veterans
    unemployment and homelessness. However, more must be done to
    intervene earlier before crisis hits. I urge Congress to expand
    community models focused on early intervention and support
    services. Communities and groups like Easter Seals are part of
    the solution in promoting successful transitions. Congress
    could accelerate this effort by establishing outcome
    measurements and increasing community connections within TAP,
    supporting communities to more effectively serve veterans and
    military families, and expanding access to care coordination
    and support services to address ongoing reintegration needs.
        As I alluded to throughout my testimony, we are veterans,
    we are not victims. That this is not about pity but recognizing
    potential, and that this generation of veterans are wired to
    serve. They just need a little community based support during
    transition and reintegration and they will thrive.
        Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I will be pleased
    to answer any questions.

        [The prepared statement of Colonel David Sutherland appears
    in the Appendix]

        Dr. Wenstrup. Well, thank you, Colonel Sutherland. I now
    yield myself five minutes for questions and first I want to say
    I appreciate all of your testimonies and your lifelong concern
    for our veteran and for those that have served. And certainly
    we don't want this program to be death by Power Point, which we
    have heard about, and we don't want it to be just a box that
    you check. We are all familiar with that process and coming
    away with nothing. But we also need to look for opportunities
    outside of those several days where we can reach our veterans
    and those that are still in uniform as they are transitioning
    out of the military. Our goal here is to get it right and to
    get it right as many times as we possibly can.
        You know, with that in mind as you are looking at the long
    term effects, I ask all of you what is your understanding of
    how the VA, Department of Labor, and Department of Defense are
    tracking long-term performance outcomes of TAP? And how do you
    think they could improve such reporting? What are you hearing
    from members on how TAP has or has not adequately prepared them
    for their transition? And I will start with you, Mr. Leghorn.
        Mr. Leghorn. Mr. Chairman, we had very good feedback from
    our members that have gone through the TAP program. There is
    obviously some small tweaking that needs to happen, but for the
    most part it has been, all the feedback has been positive.
        Dr. Wenstrup. What about the long term, my concern is about
    the long term reporting of how people are doing through, after
    this process. We know that they may go through the program and
    find it beneficial. What about looking at where they are two
    years from now? Five years from now? That is one of the issues
    that I want to address with all of you.
        Mr. Leghorn. We talked to the Department of Labor about
    this in the past. And I believe we were told that they had a, a
    while back they had a direct calling campaign where they were
    reaching, actually reaching out to the people that have gone
    through TAP. And they captured their information and they were
    following up with them afterwards. So I do not know if that is
    still happening, but the American Legion was in support of that
    program.
        Mr. Gallagher. Thank you for the chairman, thank you for
    the question, Mr. Chairman. A couple of items on this. Now
    first, DoD is conducting exit surveys for participants in the
    Transition Assistance Program. Overall the feedback has been
    generally positive from what the VFW has seen. Now to do our
    own due diligence we also had a survey of recently transitioned
    servicemembers asking for their feedback on the Transition
    Assistance Program. A little bit of what we found from our
    respondents is that 65 percent reported that overall they were
    very satisfied with the level of training that they received.
    Only five percent reported that they were dissatisfied.
    Although the response, the sampling was very small, we hit
    major installations like, major combat installations like Fort
    Campbell, Fort Bragg, Hood, Camp Pendleton, and so on.
        Now as far as the Department of Labor briefing, 72 percent
    found it very useful, 26 somewhat useful. And 68 percent
    reported very likely to use the resources after they separated.
    Now the problem with this is that it does not capture what
    happens in the out years. This is what we were talking about in
    our testimony about the DoD, the importance of the Department
    of Defense and Department of Labor information sharing
    agreement. Department of Labor does want to track veterans once
    they separate from the military and what their employment
    interactions are like but they do not have consistent access to
    the information from when servicemembers leave the military and
    become veterans.
        Also with the Off Base Transition Training Program, I think
    that is why we think this is an important investment. OBTT has
    the potential to reach veteran who never had an opportunity to
    go through TAP, which is the majority of the veteran
    population. I know when I left the military it still was not
    mandatory. The mandate is only hitting people who are going
    through it now. And also, that is not necessarily even the
    right time to ask those questions because you do not know the
    challenges you will face until after you leave.
        There are some issues with the current population survey
    and how the Bureau of Labor Statistics identifies veterans
    within the workforce. There are some tweaks we could make there
    to make it more beneficial. But there, we have a long way to go
    before properly evaluating the effectiveness of TAP and the
    long term employment of veterans.
        Ms. Dunmyer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am not aware of a
    formal program of tracking departing servicemembers to assess
    the effectiveness of TAP. But what I can share with you is what
    we are getting back from our student veterans. For the most
    part they are, they have benefitted from the TAP training but
    there are some instances where they are not prepared to enter
    college. They did not receive the information on how to engage
    the process and then what financial assistance is out there. So
    as we have identified through this hearing, we have also
    identified that there are still areas where we still need to
    show improvements.
        Colonel Sutherland. So we did from our discussions, and I
    have visited over 600 communities in the past several years,
    worked and spoken to veterans from all generations, but with
    this particular audience that have gone through the current
    transition it is, the struggle is the warm hand-off, the
    connection with where they are going. The personal information
    disclosure and connecting them before they get home, to
    network, to assist, and knowing where to go if they have an
    emergency during that time period. That is what is missing.
        We have to measure the success or failure of our graduates.
    And if we look at our veterans as graduates and measure their
    success or failure, whether it is in full-time education, full-
    time employment, or other challenges, then we can assess and
    measure how we adjust TAP for the future. What are we hitting
    on? What are we not hitting on? If we continue to just measure
    100 percent attendance, that is not going to help us achieve
    our goals. And my recommendation is that we say the goal is 100
    percent of these veterans are employed, or 100 percent are in
    education, or bring it down to a more realistic number based on
    the staff estimate of Labor, VA, and DoD. But then we can
    measure it and we can come back and not say that this group got
    a better education experience or a better transition
    experience, but handing them off warmly.
        The lessons learned in the recent Rand study for the
    100,000 jobs mission that came out discusses the significance
    of the TAP program but it also more informed our transitioning
    servicemembers of what resources are available in the community
    they are going to, and creating that advance warning to the
    local community is a benefit, and then measuring their success
    or failure as graduates of the program.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Thank you all very much. I now recognize the
    ranking member for any questions he may have.
        Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, I will throw
    this question out to anybody who feels they can answer it. How
    is it that we can retain or engage engaging instructors? I
    think part of the problem is that we have, we have got a large
    trainer corps out there which has a great variety in terms of
    their skill level and equality and how do we retain these folks
    that are good, and how do we evaluate them?
        Mr. Gallagher. Ranking Member Takano, I just had an
    opportunity to visit with some of the transition facilitators
    as we do our routine site visits. And just from speaking to
    some of the contractors who facilitate this, I think they are
    doing a good job of that already. I think the contractor is
    hiring quality individuals who want to deliver quality
    training. Some of them that we speak, most of them that we
    speak to are veterans themselves or veteran family members, and
    of those veterans most of them are recently transitioned. So
    whatever they are doing to recruit these personnel they, in my
    opinion they seem to be doing a good job.
        Now retaining them in the long term and evaluating their
    effectiveness may be a different story. One of the concerns
    that we do have is the rigidity of the contract, especially
    when it comes to integrating community resources like VSOs,
    like DVOPs, and LVERs, who could provide the landscape around
    that military installation, what the employment situation is. I
    think that is why we are asking the committee to take a look at
    the rigidity of the contract and whether there is any
    flexibility that could be worked in to put those resources back
    in where appropriate.
        Mr. Takano. All right, thank you. Ms. Dunmyer, I want to
    turn to a question, since you represent, your organization
    represents students, how much of a factor should the type of
    institution and the type of accreditation the institution has
    be in a veteran's decision of where to use their G.I. benefits?
    Do you think enough information about the type of accreditation
    is provided in TAP? I mean, for instance many veterans may not
    know that courses at a particular type of institution may not
    be transferrable. The difference between regional and national
    accreditation, for example. Is this information, how important
    is it? And is it in your opinion delivered with enough
    effectiveness?
        Ms. Dunmyer. Thank you, Ranking Member Takano. What is
    happening is that level of detail of information, you are
    normally not going to have time to be able to hear that
    information with military members as they are going through the
    TAP training. And that is why I think it is so important to
    have VSOs start to play an earlier role in the process. Because
    specifically SVA, we have got chapters on the ground throughout
    all of the 50 states. And what you would have happening there,
    and let me go back to your initial comment. Yes, there is a
    difference with the accreditation. Because unless your, you
    explain that in detail to the student vet, they don't
    understand that some of the credits may not be transferrable.
    And so they are going into school and by the time they figure
    out that the 10 or 12 credits that they have taken previously
    are not going to be able to be transferred, now they have got
    to spend additional money or potentially go into debt. And so
    it is a downhill spiraling process that is going on. So what
    you want to be able to do is to inform them, make them, provide
    as much information to them before they actually start the
    process. And so having a part of that track where it is
    mandatory that they go down it if they are, they want to pursue
    college, it is also important to have the VSO there to be able
    to explain that process to them. And in doing so, then they
    will be able to make a better informed decision about which
    schools that they want to go to.
        Mr. Takano. I wonder whether or not the federal government
    has been able to track, or VSOs track the decisions that
    students have made vis-a-vis what educational institution they
    are attending, and whether we are able to measure a level of
    regret that they would have made better decisions had they
    known. I mean, whether we have been able to assess
    retroactively among people who have used their veterans
    benefits?
        Ms. Dunmyer. We have been able to. The Million Records
    Project that was just done, phase one, we were able to track,
    and this was the first time that we have ever had research done
    on that population to find out who has gone to school, what
    were the degrees that they were pursuing, what were the types
    of institutions that they were actually enrolled in. So that
    was phase one of the Million Records Project. And what we found
    out was that you had 80 percent of the student veterans that
    were going or that had been enrolled in college from 2002
    through 2010, 80 percent of them had attended public schools,
    ten percent of them were in private schools, and then another
    ten percent were in your proprietary schools. So there is
    information out there.
        Now that was phase one. Phase two, we are going back to
    look at the institutions themselves and look at the policies
    and practices of institutions. And what we want to be able to
    see is how much of a role the institutions play in helping
    veterans actually achieve success and attaining a degree from
    that institution.
        Mr. Takano. I am sorry, my time is up. Thank you. I would
    be very much interested in that information. Thank you.
        Ms. Dunmyer. Yes, sir.
        Dr. Wenstrup. I now recognize the remaining members in
    order of arrival, alternating sides. First is Ms. Radewagen.
        Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, ranking member,
    and members of the subcommittee, talofa. My home district of
    American Samoa is an isolated group of islands about five and a
    half hours by plane south of Hawaii. It's the only U.S. soil
    that's south of the equator. And for a small group of islands
    we have a tremendous number of our sons and daughters serving
    and that have served in the armed forces. In fact, ten percent
    of our entire population is made up of military veterans. I
    want to make sure we cover as much as possible for our
    veterans. Too often in the past, not just in this committee but
    throughout the House, legislation has passed Congress that has
    forgotten American Samoa and the territories and I am pleased
    to see that in this bill our veterans are eligible for this
    assistance just as those in the States are.
        I have a question for Mr. Gallucci. I appreciate your
    suggestion in your written testimony that you believe a
    disabled veterans outreach program and the local veterans
    employment representatives should be more involved in TAP.
    Short of repealing the law mandating that contractors teach
    TAP, how would you envision DVOPs and LVERs being more
    involved?
        Mr. Gallucci. Well, thank you for the question. I do want
    to clarify one point. We support further integration of DVOPs
    and LVERs in the transition process overall. However, given the
    scope of the training that Department of Labor needs to deliver
    or that Department of Defense needs to deliver to transitioning
    servicemembers, that the way to go is through contract
    facilitation. The reason behind this is because through the TAP
    mandate in talking to the transition centers at major military
    installations, they are constantly running classes, five days a
    week, 48 to 50 weeks a year. So the problem is if you had DVOPs
    and LVERs still facilitating the training they would have
    absolutely no time to work in their communities to identify job
    opportunities or work face to face with veterans who require
    their services.
        That being said, when we spoke to some of those responsible
    for transition management, their concern was that the contract
    facilitators did not necessarily integrate local resources into
    the Transition Assistance Program at all. So there was not
    really an opportunity for an LVER or a DVOP to come in and
    brief military personnel or make themselves available. These
    may have been isolated to a handful of military installations
    but it is something that we would want to look into to make
    sure that we are not losing that community connection that
    Colonel Sutherland stressed is so important.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Next Miss Rice, you have five minutes.
        Ms Rice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This question is for Ms.
    Dunmyer. What kind of training innovations would you suggest to
    improve the delivery of benefits information to avoid what you
    refer to and others have referred to as the death by Power
    Point situation?
        Ms. Dunmyer. My first suggestion would be that we advance
    with advancements in technology. There is quite a few
    universities out there that are using distance learning and e-
    learning types of venues. And I would recommend that that is
    one option, even though I know it has been previously
    discussed. I think that is more of a viable option than the
    current one that we have where you are sitting in a classroom.
    And I was a part of that. And while my first week of it, at
    least the first two days, I thought were very beneficial, I was
    very attentive. But after about two or three days and you are
    sitting in a classroom for eight hours and the information is
    coming at your nonstop, it tends to be repetitious and it
    starts to be boring even though it is beneficial information.
    So I would say that we start to look at other types of venues
    to present the information so that you alleviate some of the
    boredom and monotony that comes with that classroom
    environment.
        Ms Rice. One other question. For Mr. Gallucci, I am going
    to ask you this question. You spoke about the DoD and DoL
    formalizing their information sharing agreement. Does not, I
    would assume that DoL already has the names of veterans who are
    transitioning to civilian life as part of their own Employment
    Workshop? Is that true? I mean, it seems like the information
    is already----
        Mr. Gallucci. Our understanding is they do not readily have
    that information at the moment. And that this is, this is being
    able to gather the information from these transition points and
    then distribute it to workforce development agencies that have,
    DVOPs and LVERs that have employment counselors who are able to
    deliver services directly to the veterans. This is something
    that Department of Labor first brought to our attention in
    2012, that they were working to codify a formal agreement with
    Department of Defense. There have been several implementation
    points that have been missed. The most recent that I am aware
    of is September of 2014, they were supposed to have an
    agreement implemented by, well like end of September, October
    1, 2014. And that time lapsed and so that is really where we
    are at the moment.
        Ms Rice. What are, so what would you think is the reason
    for the lack of desire to use contract facilitators that you
    were referring to before, given the limited ability of DVOP and
    LVERs?
        Mr. Gallucci. As far as a reluctance to use contract----
        Ms Rice. Well is there, what is the issue?
        Mr. Gallucci. I do not think there is. I think there is a
    concern, though, that local resources may not have as much of a
    presence in the Transition Assistance Program that they had
    before. So before they went to, before Department of Labor went
    to contract facilitators it was usually DVOPs or LVERs who
    conducted the training, who conducted the Department of Labor
    briefing for the TAP program. When they went to contract
    facilitation a lot of the DVOPs and LVERs were not able to
    participate in the TAP program at the level they used to and it
    was contract facilitation on all military installations so they
    are delivering the three-day Employment Workshop and DVOPs and
    LVERs would be integrated in other ways into the program. So
    that is the concern that we have heard from some DVOPs and
    LVERs.
        Our stance, from the VFW's perspective, contract
    facilitation has to be the way to go given the scalability of
    the task of training everyone who is leaving the military.
    There would be, there is no reasonable way to expect JVSG grant
    recipients to continue to deliver that training given the scope
    of investment that we have made in the program.
        Ms Rice. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Mr. Costello, you are recognized for five
    minutes.
        Mr. Costello. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want to thank
    each of you for your testimony. I believe I can generalize that
    each of you has said that TAP is an improvement but that TAP
    itself can be improved. And I think that it is refreshing for
    all of us to hear that TAP is an improvement.
        My question is directly oriented to Colonel Sutherland,
    although I invite anyone else to offer their comments. Colonel,
    I am just going to read a couple pieces of your testimony and
    then ask a question to provide the context. This is you
    speaking. I have found what typically separates a transition
    success story from a transition story of struggle and crisis
    lies in how a community welcomes, connects with, and responds
    to servicemembers leaving the military. We do not need more
    organizations but rather we need to harness existing community
    based programs and get organizations from across society to be
    inclusive of those touched by military service, to use our
    leadership locally to bring these organizations together to
    achieve collective impact. On page four you note, more needs to
    be done to localize the TAP training for transitioning
    servicemembers. And then to page seven you state that, you
    speak about the warm hand off between TAP and community as
    being lacking and there needs to be a more effective way of
    connecting the separating servicemember to the community he or
    she is planning to either prior to or during their transition.
    The DoD, for example, is not designed to provide these follow
    along community supports but some type of hand off within the
    community to the state director of veterans services, American
    Job Center staff, or local veterans service organization could
    help promote smoother transitions.
        The question is, and it need not necessarily be an economic
    development agency although being a county commissioner, I
    mean, I am aware that every region has an economic development
    agency that handles workforce development programs. My question
    is because it is necessarily something very local, and because
    each community is a little bit different, do you envision sort
    of a unified delivery model for dealing with that warm hand off
    and for dealing with that ongoing issue of reintegration? Or is
    it something that really falls outside of government and is
    much more to use the term community based? I am curious if you
    could reflect on that a little bit further. Because I find it
    very interesting. And it really hits to the nexus of what the
    focus is, which is how do you transform TAP into its next
    iteration?
        Colonel Sutherland. It does, and I understand exactly the
    challenge. The institutions need to err on the side of the
    veterans as opposed to err on the side of the institution, and
    to do that we have to understand if you have met a
    servicemember you have met a servicemember. If you have met a
    veteran, you have met a veteran. And if you are going to a
    community, you are going to a community. Each community has
    different resources, different capacity. And then what we have
    seen though in those communities, those local communities, is
    organizations that have stood up over the past several years
    because of this desire to want to connect and enable this
    generation of veterans.
        We have seen whole of society approaches take place,
    whether it is in Wilkes-Barre or whether it is in Cincinnati or
    Boise, Idaho with the Wyakin Warrior Program. But what we have
    seen is that as the veterans transition, a more personalized
    approach to connect them to what are their desires as opposed
    to what do we think they should do. And what we have seen is
    over the past year some great advancement as far as
    apprenticeships and internships through Skills Bridge, with DoD
    working with the VA, as well as with teamster organizations.
    Trade and local organizations are phenomenal at not only
    recognizing the skill sets of the veterans but then tying them
    to what do the veterans want to do? What does the servicemember
    want to do? And now with the opportunities with the changes in
    DoD regulations that took place last January, or instructions
    that have taken place last January, we are now doing
    internships on installations. We just kicked off in Fort Sill
    with the teamsters doing truck driver training with a large
    group that want to drive trucks, commercial rigs. And so
    understanding that it is a whole of society approach but
    tailoring it after the institutionalized training that they go
    through in the TAP program as they get closer.
        Because honestly when you are at 180 days out, I am
    thinking 180, 179, 178, I am counting down. As you get closer
    to the end and having a follow up, a care coordination effort,
    but connecting them to some sort of network in their local
    community. And that is what the state directors of veterans
    services have been talking about as well. Because we have been
    leaving them out of the conversations in some cases. Including
    them and then understanding that another part of this is
    building public awareness. The American people know what we
    are. They may not know us. They know we served in Iraq and
    Afghanistan, they know we served on a ship or an aircraft, we
    need to bring it down to a personal level once we connect with
    them in the local community. And that is why that network is
    so, so important. And having, harnessing community based
    programs. That is how J.P. Morgan has hired over 100,000, UBS
    has hired several thousand veterans. And through the work of
    local organizations coming together, what we have seen in
    Cincinnati that has reduced the unemployment. It is the public
    and private partnership that really takes place after that
    institutional training. Does that answer your question, sir?
        Mr. Costello. It does. I appreciate that.
        Colonel Sutherland. Thank you.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Ms. Titus, you are recognized for five
    minutes.
        Ms. Titus. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First I would like to
    say to Mr. Leghorn, I appreciated your observation and comment
    that the education track should be a mandatory part of the
    program. Because even if our servicemen and women are not
    thinking about going directly on to college, they need to have
    that information so they know what their options are down the
    road. Because many times they may get out for a year or two and
    then want to come back. And that brings me to my question to
    Ms. Dunmyer, I recently met with the student veterans at UNLV.
    And they like to go out to Nellis or to Creech and recruit some
    folks to come to UNLV. But they tell me that they have a hard
    time getting onto the bases, getting in touch with these young
    people. And they wonder how, what they can do to make it
    better. Because they believe if these folks heard from fellow
    students maybe as part of the TAP program it would be less
    boring than sitting in the classroom, as you referenced, and
    have some relevant information. I just wonder is this a problem
    across campuses? Is it just UNLV? Is there something we can do
    to maybe facilitate that relationship earlier in the process?
        Ms. Dunmyer. Well ma'am, I am not aware that that is a
    problem. I know access requirements or access standards are
    different for different installations. So it is something that
    we can go back and look at. But it should not be, their access
    onto the installation should not be a problem. I think the new
    policy for most installations is as long as you have got an ID
    normally you can gain access into the installation.
        Ms. Titus. Well I do not think they had a problem getting
    onto the base. I am talking about access to the TAP program and
    being a part of maybe that transition in a formal way before
    people get out of the service, and then kind of disappear
    before they come back to UNLV.
        Ms. Dunmyer. Well, we do not. There is not a formal----
        Ms. Titus. That is my point.
        Ms. Dunmyer. Yes, ma'am.
        Ms. Titus. Is there something we could do too, or do you
    not think that would be a good idea?
        Ms. Dunmyer. That is what we are hoping to accomplish
    today. That is what we are hoping that will happen, will come
    out of this. That we are able to be, that SVA, the VSOs are
    able to be on the front end of the process instead of the back
    end. That we can be there when the decisions are made, we are a
    part of the discussions that are going on, and we can add to
    it. That is what we are trying to do here today.
        Ms. Titus. I know that. I guess I was just looking for
    something a little more specific that we could be doing. But I,
    I appreciate the general sentiment and I share it. So maybe we
    will just go beyond students. We also have in Las Vegas gaming
    companies, like MGM and Harrah's, have very active job fairs
    for veterans. But that is, again, after the fact. They are not
    at the front end, they are not on the facilities, they are not
    talking to the soldiers so to speak before they become
    veterans. Tell me how we can make that better, anybody who
    would address. Give me something specific.
        Mr. Gallucci. Madam Titus, thank you for the question. I
    think we can--there is a little bit of insight that the VFW has
    on this issue. So, first, there were a couple of memoranda that
    the Department of Defense put out very recently, the outgoing
    Secretary of Defense Hagel put out, about base access for
    nonprofit organizations, organizations that serve veterans. One
    was for organizations like The American Legion and the VFW who
    provide VA accredited disability claim service. The other is
    for organizations to conduct events on the installation. What
    that was is to clarify how you can make that happen. This may
    be something that UNLV can take a look at if they are having
    problems integrating into that system.
        We heard these issues a lot from who has access and who
    doesn't have access to the TAP program, but I do want to say
    that there is a lot of innovation going on out there from what
    I have seen from the transition managers. The Department of
    Defense deserves a lot of credit for the men and women that
    they hire to manage their Transition Assistance Programs. They
    do integrate a lot of community resources beyond the scope of
    what we have mandated through the mandatory portion of TAP.
        For instance, out at Fort Lewis they have a lot of local
    employers that they integrate into the transition process. Fort
    Bragg has hiring events that are beyond hiring affairs; it is
    prescreened servicemembers who have resumes ready to go who
    have met with employers and then they just do interviews and
    they find jobs on the spot. There has been a lot of innovation,
    but I think one of the problems is consistency across the board
    or sharing of these good ideas; they are not identifying
    resources in those communities.
        Beyond that, as far as preparing servicemembers to make
    educational choices, there is something that I hit on in my
    testimony about the career technical track and the higher
    education track, and this actually speaks to what Ranking
    Member Takano was concerned about. In the career technical
    track there is an in-depth discussion about the difference in
    accreditation, what the model of a school is: for profit,
    nonprofit, career, education, and so on. There is not much of
    that in the higher education track and in many ways, they are
    complimentary, but a servicemember who doesn't have reasonable
    access to all the tracks or knows where to look for this
    information may not find it.
        And I think that speaks to what Chairman Wenstrup wants to
    see with mandating the education track and mandating other
    components of TAP.
        Ms. Titus. Maybe we need an inventory of what is happening
    in different places so we can come up with best practices and
    have some consistency across the board.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Thank you.
        Mr. Gallucci, can you expand on suggestions for expanding
    the off-base TAP pilot program and do you believe that we are
    doing as best we can or what are your thoughts of that?
        Mr. Gallucci. That is an interesting question. OBTT was
    something the VFW and our partners in the veterans community
    really pushed for back in 2012 and we were happy to see it
    pass. But when it was implemented it probably could have been
    done with better community coordination. Now, recognizing the
    Department of Labor had very scant resources with which to
    implement the program, but I think the philosophy the VFW has
    behind supporting this is that when a veteran goes to an
    American Job Center to meet one-on-one with either an
    employment counselor or a DVOP, that is not the time to answer
    your general questions; it is a better use of that advisor's
    time if you are ready to seek out a job.
        So if you have large-scale briefings like we do with the
    Transition Assistance Program on bases, you get a good baseline
    of information and then when you are ready for that one-on-one
    meeting, you go to that one-on-one meeting prepared to do work.
    We do the same thing with our disability claims assistance on
    military installations. So we rely on the contracted staff that
    VA provides to deliver the framework that you would need to
    know about the disability claims process. Where we fall into it
    is you schedule an appointment with one of our disability
    claims representatives and they go through your medical
    records; they help you fill out the paperwork; they take your
    power of attorney; and you file the claim from there.
        So that is the kind of interaction that we think could be
    fostered through OBTT is delivering resources at the right time
    in the community to the veterans and then when they seek out
    services, one-on-one services in an American Job Center, they
    are ready to find a job.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Thank you.
        Mr. Takano, you are recognized.
        Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Ms. Titus, I mean I share your concern about trying to
    bring some of these job resources up to the front. Congressman
    Cook and I had cosponsored legislation for a pilot, Work for
    Warriors, which was not for veterans, but was for our
    guardsmen, but which directly placed people in the job. So we
    had employees that have jobs, we should be able to not just
    teach people how to get the jobs with the resums, but maybe
    find some direct placement.
        But the question I have--and I in no way want to denigrate
    technical or other tracks--but, Ms. Dunmyer, do you have any
    idea how many of our servicemembers who are transitioning have
    issues with remediation? Because as I understand it,
    remediation education--remedial education is not currently
    covered as a funded part of their benefits, and I have a
    suspicion that it cannot be too far off of what the community
    colleges in California face. I mean up to 80 percent of our
    community college students who come to us are not really
    college-ready, and I know many of our servicemembers who are
    not attending the non-mandatory education track may not fully
    partake of their education benefits because they may be
    insecure about their readiness for college. But I want to get a
    handle on, you know, just the student success or non-student
    success that is tied to this college readiness issue. How many
    more of our veterans would maybe take on higher education if
    remediation were maybe funded by their veterans benefits?
        And if you don't have the answer, maybe some others of you
    might step forward.
        Ms. Dunmyer. I don't have an exact number, but it is about
    50, 53 percent, and, of course, it is not funded and we have
    identified that, especially with some of the stem majors, that
    math is one of the biggest challenges for our student veterans
    going back because they have been out of the classroom for
    years and so a lot of that training that they received going--
    you know, coming through high school, they have lost that
    skill.
        Mr. Takano. So you are saying that up to 50 percent of our
    veterans who actually have--are interested in seeking higher
    education--we are not even talking about those veterans who may
    have been maybe----
        Ms. Dunmyer. Graduating.
        Mr. Takano [continuing]. That our veterans who are going
    the higher education, using their benefits, up to 50 percent of
    them are sort of not college-ready at the outset, is that what
    you are saying? I mean it would seem to be a number that would
    be reasonable, given the generates that I have seen at
    community colleges.
        Colonel Sutherland. Sir, if I can help?
        We have seen the graduation rate is what Student Veterans
    of America was talking about. How many are college-ready is
    difficult to assess because our veterans may not complete for
    different reasons. They may not complete graduation or get to
    graduation because 50 percent of them are married. They may not
    get--and they have to take care of their families, so----
        Mr. Takano. So we are not able to tease out, just aggregate
    out how many of those students may have started college not
    completely ready and may have even gotten discouraged because
    they couldn't complete their first year math or English class?
        Ms. Dunmyer. No, we are not able to give you an exact
    percentage of that, no, sir. But we can give you--it is, for
    the most part, I would say you still have a high percentage of
    graduates that are able to achieve their degree. Our
    percentages are similar to what your traditional student would
    complete their degree--time frame that they would complete
    their degree in, as well.
        Mr. Takano. And I recognize there are other challenges
    beyond maybe the college-readiness which may impact our
    graduation rates at the colleges, but, specifically, because we
    don't fund remediation, remedial education, whether it is a
    semester, a year that we need to boost up that student's
    skills, this is an area that I am concerned with and trying to
    get a handle on the quantification of how many students may be
    involved.
        Ms. Dunmyer. Well, I can't give you an exact percentage;
    what I can tell you is that that is an area that we have
    identified as a problem. And to go back to math--and what we
    started is we did a pilot program a couple of months ago and it
    was to focus on math because our student veterans identified
    that they were having problems with math and that they are
    having--that the universities are requiring that they take a
    preparatory course in order to be able to start their core math
    courses for a particular degree.
        So we started a pilot program with math. When we started
    out, we had--our hopes were that we would have at least 30
    people that would enroll. To our surprise, it ended up being a
    little over a hundred--300 people that actually ended up
    enrolling in the course, and so from all measures, that was
    extremely successful.
        Now, because of that, what we started to do is to look at
    other areas that veterans are having problems with, as well,
    and we plan to do other pilots like that to address other areas
    that veterans are challenged in before they actually start
    their degree for studied.
        Mr. Takano. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate
    the extra questioning time.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Sure. With votes coming up, if there is a
    second round of questions, if you could make them brief, I
    would appreciate it.
        Ms. Radewagen, you are recognized if you have another
    question.
        Ms. Radewagen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I'd like to express my proceedings to the entire panel.
        Colonel Sutherland, Dixon Center, I would like to thank you
    for sharing in your written statement the heartwarming story of
    the U.S. Marine Corps veteran named Gary which illustrates the
    efforts and positive effects that local nonprofits can provide
    to servicemembers. How can Congress and the Administration
    better assist nonprofits connect to servicemembers in need?
        Colonel Sutherland. Yes, ma'am.
        It is a great question; I appreciate you asking. And I am
    happy to give you a more detailed answer, as well. What has
    taken place recently with the change in instructions from
    Secretary Hagel for access for VSOs needs to go further. It
    needs to broaden the definition of those that can have access.
        With the number of nonprofits that exist, every single one
    of them does a good job, but making sure that locally--I fought
    for my family, my neighbor and my community, and I come home to
    my family, my neighbor and my community, and so encouraging
    their participation through--and through expanding the efforts
    of SSVF, expanding the efforts of the Supportive Services for
    Veteran Families, as well as HVRP, and other efforts to locally
    connect those services and expanding the definition of in your
    community of asking other nonprofits just be inclusive.
        Easter Seals is an organization that has been inclusive of
    veterans since World War II and provides direct services to
    165,000. We don't market. We don't spend a lot of money
    marketing. So it is build public awareness, encourage community
    involvement and promote community-based services, and I am
    happy to give you a much more expansive answer, as well.
        And we appreciate our American Samoans that have fought
    with us, as well. I had a large number in my brigade combat
    team.
        Ms. Radewagen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Well, if there are no other questions, I want
    to thank the first panel for being here today. You are now
    excused, but thank you for your dedication to our country and
    to our servicemembers.
        I now invite our second panel to the witness table. Joining
    us is Mr. Curt Coy, Deputy Under Secretary for Economic
    Opportunity at the Department of Veterans Affairs; Ms. Teresa
    Gerton, Deputy Assistant Secretary at the Veterans' Employment
    and Training Service at the Department of Labor; and Dr. Susan
    Kelly, Director of the Transition to Veterans Program Office at
    the Department of Defense.
        I thank you for being with us today and for your service to
    our nation's veterans.
        Mr. Coy, let's begin with you; you are now recognized for
    five minutes, sir.

                       STATEMENT OF CURTIS L. COY

        Mr. Coy. Well, thank you, Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member
    Takano, and other members of the subcommittee.
        I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to
    discuss the current status of VA's Transition Assistance
    Program. Accompanying me today is Ms. Rosye Cloud, our senior
    advisor for veteran employment and the acting director of the
    VBA/DoD Program Office, the organization in my office that
    managing the day-to-day operations of TAP.
        We all believe that it is critical for today's
    servicemembers are prepared to transition to civilian life. We
    have been working collaboratively with all of our partners to
    deliver transition tools to help them and their families. It's
    been a whirlwind time frame, and for the most part, a
    successful journey.
        In November 2011, Congress passed and the President signed
    the VOW to Hire Heroes Act which made participation in TAP
    mandatory for all servicemembers. The following month a joint
    Veterans Employment Initiative Task Force delivered its
    principal recommendations, all of which have been incorporated
    into TAP.
        The new VA curriculum now consists of two briefings broken
    into four and two-hour sessions. Additionally, last year, VA
    fully deployed the career technical training track, a course
    designed for servicemembers wishing to transition into
    technical fields that may not require--that may require
    additional credentials, but certainly not a four-year degree. A
    contract vehicle was put into place to provide the resources
    and expertise to deliver TAP worldwide.
        Our contractors share VA's commitment to veteran
    employment. Ninety-five percent of our benefits advisors are
    veterans. Four percent are military spouses. We currently have
    over 300 VA benefits advisors permanently stationed at 107
    military installations who also provide itinerant support to an
    additional 189 military installations worldwide. We are
    reaching out to those communities outside the gates of those
    installations as well changing the way servicemembers view us.
        Between our 300 benefits advisors and our 400 IDES staff,
    we are now permanently stationed in hundreds of locations. We
    consider reaching out to servicemembers while they are still in
    uniform and where they work is critical. TAP GPS is the key
    front door to the VA.
        To meet the needs of the National Guard and Reserve
    component members, VA deployed benefits advisors at all formal
    demobilization locations, as well as we remain flexible for
    Yellow Ribbon and community-based events. In just over the last
    15 months, through the middle of this month, VA has conducted
    over 10,000 benefits briefings to over 280,000 servicemembers.
        VA and our partner agencies have also developed an online--
    developed a virtual curriculum hosted on the Joint Knowledge
    Online Web site, providing access from remote sites. We have
    also posted the complete curriculum on our eBenefits portal.
        VA has developed and implemented a comprehensive approach
    to quality assurance. Benefits advisors complete a rigorous
    training program before being placed in the field and we follow
    up that training with intensive site visits.
        VA has worked hard to develop a number of tools to help and
    assist transitioning servicemembers do everything possible to
    help them become informed consumers of their benefits ranging
    from career scope, GI Bill comparison tool, feedback tools,
    choosing the right school, and most recently, the Veterans
    Employment Center or VEC.
        The VEC is the federal government's single authoritative
    Internet source for connecting transitioning servicemembers,
    veterans and their families to meaningful career opportunities.
    It is the first government-wide product that brings together a
    cadre of public and private employers with real job
    opportunities. Currently, 1.7 million posted on the VEC, thanks
    in large part to our Department of Labor partners. It also
    provides tools to translate military skills into language that
    civilian employers can understand. Job seekers can also build a
    profile to share with employers. Since its launch nine months
    ago, we have seen the VEC have over nine million visitors.
        The VA has incorporated all of these tools into our
    briefings and all benefits advisors have been fully trained.
    Finally, it is important to note and acknowledge our veteran
    service organizations who are often included in our TAP
    sessions. VA collaboratively works with our partner agencies to
    continually improve the quality and breadth of our TAP program.
    We have come a long way, but also know there is more to do.
        Mr. Chairman, we are rowing hard and we will continue to do
    so. This concludes my statement. I would be pleased to answer
    any questions you or other members of the subcommittee may
    have.

        [The prepared statement of Curtis L. Coy appears in the
    Appendix]

        Dr. Wenstrup. Thank you, Mr. Coy.
        Ms. Gerton, you are now recognized for five minutes.

                     STATEMENT OF TERESA W. GERTON

        Ms. Gerton. Good afternoon, Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking
    Member Takano and distinguished members of the Subcommittee.
        My name is Teresa Gerton and I am the Deputy Assistant
    Secretary for Policy at the Veterans' Employment and Training
    Service in the Department of Labor.
        Thank you for the opportunity to participate in today's
    hearing to discuss the implementation of the revised Transition
    Assistance Program, Transition Goals, Plans, Success, also
    known as GPS. Since the inception of TAP over 20 years ago, the
    Department of Labor has provided training and services through
    the Employment Workshop to over 2.6 million separating or
    retiring servicemembers and their spouses. Last year alone, DoL
    conducted more than 6,600 Employment Workshops for over 207,000
    participants at 206 military installations worldwide.
        The VOW Act of 2011 required that DoL use contract
    facilitators to deliver its Employment Workshops, to ensure a
    standardized, high-quality professional cadre of facilitators.
    DoL awarded a contract to GBX Consultants, Incorporated, a
    Service Disabled-Veteran-Owned Small Business in August of 2012
    for the facilitation of all DoL Employment Workshops.
        In fiscal year 2013 we unveiled an entirely new Employment
    Workshop that provides a highly effective training experience
    and prepares servicemembers for a successful transition to the
    civilian workplace at all military installations worldwide.
    This three-day program uses modern adult learning techniques to
    actively engage transitioning servicemembers in critical
    transition skills.
        Along with the synchronous virtual workshop, DoL worked
    with DoD Joint Knowledge Online to convert the Employment
    Workshop instructor-led classroom curriculum into an
    asynchronous online distance learning format. This is a self-
    paced online version of the Employment Workshop that
    servicemembers can use to reinforce and refresh what they have
    learned in the classroom.
        On day one, participants develop their Change Management
    Plan And identify overall strategies for transitioning into the
    civilian workforce. On day two, participants learn how to
    analyze the job market and use social media in job searches and
    networking. On day three, instructors impart critical
    information about special veterans' hiring authorities and how
    the federal job application process differs from the private
    sector.
        Throughout the Employment Workshop, participants work
    extensively on their master job application, targeted resums,
    and interviewing skills, and finish with a mock interview
    exercise. Instructors also discuss relevant employment
    services, including benefits available to dislocated workers
    that are available to assist transitioning servicemembers,
    veterans, and their families before, during, and after their
    separation from the military.
        All veterans, including recently separated servicemembers
    receive priority service in DoL-funded employment and training
    programs. Many of these programs and services are available
    through the nationwide network of nearly 2,500 American Job
    Centers. During the DoL-Employment Workshop, servicemembers
    learn that they are entitled to intensive services for up to
    six months at an American Job Center.
        DoL is pleased to report that the new Employment Workshop
    curriculum has been well received. Of the 11,000 participants
    who responded to the most recent survey, 91 percent reported
    that they would use what they learned in their own transition
    planning and 89 percent reported that the DoL Employment
    Workshop enhanced their confidence in transition planning. DoL
    will continue to review feedback and evaluate the program to
    ensure that the curriculum remains relevant, that meaningful
    learning is taking place, and that servicemembers feel prepared
    to transition from military service and pursue other career
    goals.
        Joining my colleagues from the other agencies, I want to
    remark on the strong partnership we have across the federal
    government in executing this program. We meet regularly to
    administer and update the program and we are proud of our
    collaboration on numerous initiatives including the Veterans
    Employment Center, the DoD SkillBridge Program, and our joint
    participation with the Chamber of Commerces' Hiring Our Heroes
    job summits at installations around the country. The Department
    looks forward to working with the Subcommittee to ensure that
    our separating servicemembers have the resources and training
    they need to successfully transition to the civilian workforce.
        Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Takano, and distinguished
    members of the committee, that concludes my oral statement.
    Thank you for the opportunity.

        [The prepared statement of Teresa W. Gerton appears in the
    Appendix]

        Dr. Wenstrup. Thank you, Ms. Gerton.
        Dr. Kelly, you are now recognized for five minutes.

                      STATEMENT OF DR. SUSAN KELLY

        Ms. Kelly. Good afternoon, Chairman Wenstrup and Ranking
    Member Takano and distinguished members of the subcommittee. I
    appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today joined by
    my colleagues from the Department of Veterans Affairs and the
    Department of Labor to discuss the status of implementing the
    redesigned TAP.
        Redesigning TAP in collaboration are our interagency
    partners brings together a unique set of capabilities
    benefitting approximately one million servicemembers separating
    from active duty over the next four years. The foundation of
    the redesigned TAP is a set of career-readiness standards that
    are verified for all transitioning servicemembers during a
    Capstone event no later than 90 days prior to separation. If
    career readiness standards are not met, the servicemembers are
    provided further training or a warm hand-over to interagency
    partners who ensure servicemembers receive post-separation
    assistance.
        Part of the redesign includes the robust transition GPS
    curriculum, goals, plan, success. It builds the skills that
    transitioning servicemembers will need to meet career-readiness
    standards and it is now fully implemented at 206 military sites
    in the United States and overseas. In addition to VOW Act
    mandated requirements, transition GPS includes modules for
    financial planning and a military occupational code crosswalk
    to civilian workforce skills. It also includes three supplement
    training tracks, accessing higher education, career technical
    training and entrepreneurship. To ensure that all
    servicemembers have access to the transition GPS regardless of
    their duty, station or location, we have made it available
    virtually on DoD's Joint Knowledge Online platform.
        Another area of substantial progress is within our
    evaluation and assessment of TAP. DoD, in collaboration with
    our partners developed a TAP-evaluation strategy to address
    three overarching goals, accountability, customer satisfaction,
    and program effectiveness with long-term measures being
    developed by VA, DoL, and the Small Business Administration.
    Outcome measures are a priority for the TAP evaluations
    strategy, beginning with VOW Act and career-readiness standards
    compliance.
        Based on the Defense Manpower Data Center, verified data
    for fiscal year to date 2015 across the services, that
    compliance for their active-duty servicemembers ranged from 91
    to 97 percent. These results account for three-quarters of the
    members who are separated from active duty. We realize,
    however, that we must work hard to close the remaining
    reporting gap.
        In fiscal year 2014, we also focused an commune indicating
    our redesigned TAP to servicemembers. Throughout the month of
    September, 2014, we conducted a comprehensive communications
    campaign. For your reference, we have provided materials to
    each one of the members of the subcommittee. This year we
    shifted our focus to implementation of the Military Life Cycle
    TAP Transition Model. This marks a major cultural shift for the
    Department. In December, 2014, the military services reported
    to the White House that Military Life Cycle Transition
    preparation was fully implemented at their installations, which
    the new TAP interagency governing structure will continue to
    monitor and improve.
        Your continued support is greatly appreciated and I look
    forward to your questions.

        [The prepared statement of Susan Kelly appears in the
    Appendix]

        Dr. Wenstrup. Thank you. I thank you all for your remarks
    and I now yield myself five minutes for questioning.
        One of the things we discussed with the first panel is
    looking at long-term outcomes, you know, long-term outcomes
    beyond just instructor surveys that immediately follow going to
    TAP. We all know that in human nature we can sometimes lead a
    horse to water, but we can't make them drink, and there are
    times where we have to be careful that we are not setting
    someone up for failure in engaging in something where they are
    not going to succeed.
        But my question of you is what can we, here, what can we do
    to help you track these outcomes more successfully down the
    road to see where we are and make adjustments as we go? And I
    will go down the line.
        Mr. Coy. I will go ahead and start off, Mr. Chairman.
        I think tracking long-term outcomes is an incredibly
    valuable tool as we go forward. We have discussed with our
    partners a number of different things. One thing that we are
    doing and we are putting together is putting in our voice of
    the veteran survey TAP and making sure we are working with our
    partners to make sure that we ask the right questions and the
    right amount of questions as well. We also are looking at ways
    that we could possibly do longitudinal approaches. We do
    longitudinal studies in both VRE and education, and we are
    looking at ways that we could add TAP to that mix. And then
    most certainly, I think, Mr. Chairman, you referenced it in
    your opening statement, we recently released our economic
    opportunity report. It is the first that we have ever done and
    we plan on making TAP also a part of future economic
    opportunity reports, as well.
        Ms. Gerton. DoL does track the long-term outcomes of
    individuals who receive services at an American Job Center. We
    track three particular metrics, entered employment, retained
    employment, and average six-month salary.
        Beginning in 2013 we added a field that asked incoming
    veterans for services at American Job Centers whether or not
    they had participated in the TAP program within the last three
    years. As states implement that new data element in their
    reporting systems, we are beginning to gather information about
    the outcomes of TAP participants, as distinguished from other
    veterans who may not have gone through that. As that reporting
    process matures, we will have better outcome-related data to
    TAP participants who do get services through an American Job
    Center.
        We are also working very closely with our colleagues in DoD
    to create an opt-in field for servicemembers when they go
    through the Capstone counseling that will allow them to provide
    personal contact information for eventual follow-up by DoD
    counselors so that we can have a better long-term picture of
    what is going on with them as they transition. As we mature
    that collection process with DoD, we will keep you informed.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Well, that is one of my questions you
    mentioned there, is how you are maintaining that communication,
    and is it by email? Is it by telephone? Are they coming in to
    meet with you? Are they coming in six months later? A year
    later? Two years later? What is the timeline and how are you
    maintaining that communication?
        Ms. Gerton. Right now our maintenance records track
    individuals who are receiving services at the job centers and
    then they become part of our long-term record. We don't, at
    this point, have the means of communicating with individuals
    who haven't opted to provide their personal contact information
    to our job centers, so that is what we are working on with DoD.
        Once we do that, then we will have the data transmission
    and sharing agreement with DoD that will allow us to maintain
    that contact. We hope to contact that local outreach push that
    out through our job centers.
        Dr. Wenstrup. So in that vein, is there something that we
    need to be doing here?
        Ms. Gerton. I think in terms of getting that communication
    and data sharing underway, we have all the support that we
    need. In the longer term, there may be issues relating to DoL's
    ability to track individuals to their long-term wage records
    that would allow us to have a better long-term perspective on
    an individual's outcomes over their life cycle.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Currently, what is your timeline? For those
    that you do have that communication set up, what is your
    timeline? Are you checking with them again after they get a
    job? Are you checking with them again in six months? Are they
    still there? Are you checking with them in a year?
        Ms. Gerton. We track their outcomes for the three quarters
    after they have received their last service. So did they enter
    employment in the quarter following their last American Job
    Center service? Then we look to see if they had wage records in
    the next two quarters. And we follow that through until there
    was some reason that they needed American Job Center services
    again, they would come back into the survey.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Okay. Thank you.
        Dr. Kelly.
        Ms. Kelly. Well, we recognize that data tracking and the
    tracking of our servicemembers as they went through the
    redesigned TAP would be a concern, so what we have done is we
    developed, through the Capstone process, which is part of the
    TAP redesign, is a completion of a new defense form. So every
    single servicemember who is transitioning and separates, just
    like they get a DD214 also gets a new copy of this form. That
    data is fed to the Defense Management Data Center and we have
    established a web service that will allow our partners to tap
    into that data and track those servicemembers. That IT
    architecture and those business cases and those approvals are
    still going through the processes right now.
        But what we are also doing through DMDC, again, it is the
    Defense Manpower Data Center, is to actually pilot with eight
    states the flow of the data from the DD214 on every
    servicemember to each of those states. We are piloting that
    because as you go to each state, the ability of the states and
    the local communities to capture that data and to secure that
    data varies from one state to the next. So it is an IT
    architecture issue within each one of the states that has to be
    addressed. But we started that pilot in January and we will see
    how that progresses and report out to you the results of that
    once that pilot is completed.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Thank you very much.
        I now recognize Ranking Member Takano for five minutes.
        Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Ms. Gerton, you mentioned that servicemembers must meet
    career-readiness standards. Can you--what does that mean?
        Ms. Gerton. These are established in a partnership with
    both the Veterans Affairs agency and the Department of Defense
    in terms of what the servicemembers must be prepared to
    demonstrate in terms of which career track they plan to take.
    For example, if they are going to go to higher education, there
    is a checklist of things that they need to demonstrate.
        If they are looking to get a job, from our perspective,
    they have to demonstrate that they have completed the basics of
    the exercises in the TAP class. They have to present a resumes
    and a cover letter. They have to provide the results of their
    skills assessment. They have to show that they have done a
    local market job survey so that they have assessed whether or
    not the positions that they are interested in are available in
    the community that they would like to go back to and an
    understanding of the salary range that might be appropriate for
    them. And then they have to demonstrate that they have looked
    for or have made progress towards getting some job interviews.
        If they haven't, then they go back through for remediation
    processes, either back through TAP, back through additional
    counseling, or in our case, they may be referred to the local
    American Job Center for additional intervention.
        Mr. Takano. Can you incorporate the concerns about soft
    skills mentioned by the earlier panel into the career-readiness
    section?
        Ms. Gerton. We take all the input from our stakeholders
    very seriously. We are sort of limited in the amount of time we
    have to communicate the material in the TAP class. We have
    basically three days, eight hours a day to get them all the way
    through all the basic fundamentals of how to do a job search.
    We do an annual curriculum review; in fact, just this week, we
    are rolling out our new curriculum that replaced some outdated
    information, adds in information about disability,
    entitlements, education about the Veterans Employment Center,
    and some of the other new tools that are available. We do that
    on an annual cycle and we are getting ready to kick off another
    annual curriculum review here in the next couple of months, so
    we will certainly take that under advisement.
        Mr. Takano. This might not be under your purview, it might
    be under Mr. Coy's, but is there any point, you know, an
    emphasis on this career-readiness standards, assessing whether
    or not--what about the college-readiness, I mean, in terms of
    whether--obviously we don't do enough of the assessment of
    whether students are ready actually to go to college, but can
    you comment on that Mr. Coy.
        Mr. Coy. Absolutely, Congressman Takano.
        As you know from past years, this is also a subject that I
    am passionate about as well. What is interesting with the
    students that we see coming out, we don't know how many of
    those students require remedial training or not, but often
    times as we go through this process, I tell folks that 36
    months of Post-9/11 G.I. Bill benefits is two semesters for
    four years and there is not much room for do-overs that are in
    there.
        So we share your concern as well about remediation. It is
    one of those things that we saw in our public-private
    partnership strategy that Ms. Cloud has been working on. We,
    right now, have an organization called Coursera and they are
    offering a free online remedial-type course on the Veterans
    Employment Center. So we are doing those kinds of things.
    Interestingly, as well, SVA has come out with a mentor-type
    program where they also provide those kinds of things.
        And then the other final thing is we currently have a
    VetsSuccess on campus counselor on 94 campuses across the
    country. We are hoping to expand that, as well, where we have
    VR counselors literally on campus full-time.
        Mr. Takano. That is wonderful.
        Dr. Kelly [continuing]. I want to thank you, Mr. Coy, Dr.
    Kelly, I want to commend the Department of Defense for it is
    Military Life Cycle concept. I am just wondering if there is an
    opportunity for you all to think about when a servicemember
    might identify an interest in a higher education, and if there
    is a possibility of being able to assess that student or that
    servicemember in terms of their college-readiness and then find
    ways to encourage that student years before, sometime before
    they exit to begin to address any readiness issues they might
    have, and even if the Defense Department could encourage that
    to happen?
        Ms. Kelly. Well, I wish the DoD could take credit for the
    Military Life Cycle TAP singularly, but that was a concept that
    was developed by the Task Force and was the bedrock of the TAP
    redesign. We developed the transitioning GPS curriculum,
    reverse engineered it to build the career-readiness standards,
    but all along, the fourth recommendation to the president was
    to embed that entire curriculum across Military Life Cycle
    touch points.
        So, for instance, to your point about assessments, one of
    the career-readiness standards is an educational assessment and
    that is to be done at the first duty site of the
    servicemembers, so that is a career-readiness standard.
        Mr. Takano. I would love to get hold of that material from
    the DoD.
        Ms. Kelly. Sure.
        Mr. Takano. Wonderful. I commend you all for doing that.
        Ms. Kelly. Happy to provide it.
        Dr. Wenstrup. They are going to be calling the votes in
    about five minutes. Hopefully we can get through the members'
    questions before we have to go, and with that, I recognize Ms.
    Radewagen for five minutes.
        Ms. Radewagen. My pleasure.
        As part of the Capstone event, the TAP MOU requires that a
    commander sign off if the servicemember meets the career-
    readiness standards. What type of training are commanders, or
    really their designees, being given to ensure that they are
    qualified to make such a distinction, and what happens if the
    commander does not sign his paperwork?
        Ms. Kelly. Actually, each one of the services was required
    to provide their plan on how they were going to educate the
    commanders for their new responsibilities for the entire
    transition GPS, as well as that Capstone. So that is taking
    place in the service schoolhouses, commanders' and leadership
    courses right now. The commanders, or someone in the chain of
    command, it is a mandate to have those career-readiness
    standards reviewed and signed off by the commander or the
    commander's designee, as well as the transition staff because
    commanders may or may not have the expertise in all of the
    career-readiness standards. So the review is first conducted by
    the transition staff. It's also signed off by the
    servicemember.
        If a career-readiness standard is not met in the
    servicemember's personal goal pathway, if you allow me that
    word, the warm handoff to one of our partner agencies is also
    documented. So the staff member to whom that warm hand-over is
    given is actually documented again on that DD form.
        We are not seeing a problem with either the commanders or
    the commander's designee signing off on those DD forms.
        Ms. Radewagen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Thank you.
        Ms. Rice.
        Ms. Rice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        This is for Ms. Gerton. During the DoL's Employment
    Workshops, are private sector employers brought in to do mock
    interviews, and if so, are you getting feedback to the
    servicemembers on their interview performance? I mean is there
    any aspect of private sector involvement?
        Ms. Gerton. So, actually during the eight hours a day for
    the three days, we do not have private sector involvement. The
    mock interviews are managed within the classroom itself and
    individuals are provided feedback on their performance through
    the instructor staff, the facilitators; however, at the
    discretion of the individual TAP managers on the bases, they
    may be able to bring in private sector folks around the
    curriculum to have additional conversations with the
    servicemembers, especially those that are in the practice of
    hiring veterans, I think that would be----
        Ms. Rice. Thank you. I yield back my time. Thank you.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Thank you.
        Ms. Titus, you are recognized for five minutes.
        Ms. Titus. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I would like to ask you, Mr. Coy, a question about how you
    explain VBA benefits to separating servicemembers as part of
    the TAP program, especially benefits for same-sex couples. As
    you know, the Department of Defense recognizes marriage
    equality and provides marriage benefits to all families of
    active duty members of the armed services; unfortunately, due
    to an outdated law, the VA is unable to provide benefits to
    married couples in a few states that are home to a large number
    of veterans.
        So that means that an active-duty member can have access to
    certain benefits on Monday and lose them on Tuesday as he or
    she separates from the armed services. Now, I don't think that
    is fair, but this committee last year voted to continue the
    injustice.
        Now, you said that TAP is the front door to the VA, but
    apparently there is no welcome mat in front of that door for
    some of our veterans. So how do you explain to them that these
    are the benefits that they will or will not be getting when
    they go through the TAP program?
        Mr. Coy. Congresswoman, I couldn't agree more that we need
    to get better at explaining the same-sex benefits. We do the VA
    benefits, and as I mentioned, a four-hour course and a two-hour
    course. VA has fully embraced the same-sex marriage provisions.
    There are statutory things that are in the way of that, and so
    we are sometimes caught in the middle of that, if you will,
    from that perspective, but we try to explain as best we can to
    our servicemembers as they are going through their VA benefits
    briefs.
        Ms. Titus. Thank you.
        I yield back.
        Dr. Wenstrup. Well, thank you.
        If there are no further questions, I want to thank everyone
    here today for taking time to come to share your views on this
    critical program. As I have said before, I believe that if we
    can get TAP right and effectively prepare our transitioning
    servicemembers for life after active duty, we can probably
    mitigate a lot of the problems and issues that our veterans
    face.
        Finally, I ask unanimous consent that all members have five
    legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include
    extraneous material.
        Without objection, so ordered.
        The hearing is now adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 3:45 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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