[House Hearing, 114 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
DEPLORABLE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS IN
CUBA AND VENEZUELA
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
NOVEMBER 6, 2015
__________
Serial No. 114-123
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
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COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida BRAD SHERMAN, California
DANA ROHRABACHER, California GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
JOE WILSON, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
TED POE, Texas BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
MATT SALMON, Arizona KAREN BASS, California
DARRELL E. ISSA, California WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
MO BROOKS, Alabama AMI BERA, California
PAUL COOK, California ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California
RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas GRACE MENG, New York
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
RON DeSANTIS, Florida TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
TED S. YOHO, Florida ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
CURT CLAWSON, Florida BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee
REID J. RIBBLE, Wisconsin
DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan
LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
TOM EMMER, MinnesotaUntil 5/18/
15 deg.
DANIEL DONOVAN, New YorkAs
of 5/19/15 deg.
Amy Porter, Chief of Staff Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director
Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere
JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
MATT SALMON, Arizona GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
RON DeSANTIS, Florida ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
TED S. YOHO, Florida ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California
TOM EMMER, MinnesotaUntil 5/18/
15 deg.
DANIEL DONOVAN, New YorkAs
of 6/2/15 deg.
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
WITNESSES
Mr. Antonio Rodiles, Cuban Dissident............................. 8
Ms. Sylvia Iriondo, President, Mothers and Women Against
Repression (M.A.R. por Cuba)................................... 15
The Reverend Mario Felix Lleonart Barroso, Pastor, Ebenezer
Baptist Church in Villa Clara, Cuba............................ 22
Ms. Adriana Lopez Vermut, Sister of Leopoldo Lopez............... 45
Mr. Carlos Vecchio Demari, Lawyer, National Political
Coordinator, Voluntad Popular.................................. 53
Ms. Ibeyise Pacheco, Venezuelan Journalist and Writer............ 55
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
Mr. Antonio Rodiles: Prepared statement.......................... 11
Ms. Sylvia Iriondo: Prepared statement........................... 18
The Reverend Mario Felix Lleonart Barroso: Prepared statement.... 25
Ms. Adriana Lopez Vermut: Prepared statement..................... 48
Ms. Ibeyise Pacheco: Prepared statement.......................... 58
APPENDIX
Hearing notice................................................... 86
Hearing minutes.................................................. 87
The Honorable Jeff Duncan, a Representative in Congress from the
State of South Carolina, and chairman, Subcommittee on the
Western Hemisphere: Material submitted for the record.......... 88
Mr. Carlos Vecchio Demari: Prepared statement.................... 90
DEPLORABLE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS IN CUBA AND VENEZUELA
----------
FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 6, 2015
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:07 a.m., in
the Stephen P. Clark Government Center, 111 NW First Street,
Miami, Florida, Hon. Jeff Duncan (chairman of the subcommittee)
presiding.
Mr. Duncan. Good morning. We will go ahead and get started.
Okay. We were unsure when Congressman Curbelo would make it
in, but I am glad he made it. And we will go ahead and get
started.
Good morning, and welcome to this congressional field
hearing here in Miami, Florida. I would like to thank everyone
for attending today, and I appreciate the effort taken on
behalf of all those involved to conduct this important hearing.
And sincere thanks goes to the county commissioner chairman,
and we appreciate his assistance.
This is an official congressional hearing as opposed to a
town hall meeting, and as such, we must abide by certain rules
of the Committee on Foreign Affairs and the U.S. House of
Representatives.
I kindly wish to remind our guests today that
demonstrations from the audience, including applause or verbal
outburst, as well as the use of signs or placards, are a
violation of the Rules of the House of Representatives.
Additionally, use of photography and cameras during the hearing
is limited to accredited press only.
Today, I am joined by Representative Alan Grayson, who will
serve as the ranking Democrat member; Representative Ron
DeSantis, who serves with me on the Committee on Foreign
Affairs; and Representative Carlos Curbelo, who represents
south Florida and is a strong Member and active in the House of
Representatives.
We meet today to consider the serious issues of ongoing
human rights abuses in Cuba and Venezuela. Winston Churchill
once stated, ``Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human
qualities because it is a quality which guarantees all
others.'' Our witnesses have exhibited great courage in their
home countries, and they have shown bravery in choosing to
testify and tell their personal stories publicly here today.
Yet these witnesses are really a representation of so many
others who could not be with us here today, the Ladies in
White; the Patriotic Union of Cuba; bloggers who dare to speak
the truth to power; human rights' defenders unjustly victimized
for their efforts to pursue justice; religious organizations
who want to worship God freely and peaceably; political
prisoners who seek to live in a democracy that stands for rule
of law and judicial independence; and the unnamed ordinary
citizens of Cuba and Venezuela who live in fear and who have
been unjustly threatened, beaten, or jailed.
We will begin this hearing with panel I to consider the
state of human rights in Cuba, and once we have concluded our
time of questions and answers, we will recess and reconvene
panel II to examine the situation in Venezuela.
My hope with this hearing is that the American public may
better understand the gravity of events in these two countries
and that the United States Government may have greater clarity
on ways to more effectively promote freedom and human rights in
Latin America.
As chairman of House Committee on Foreign Affairs
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, I have focused closely
on the issues of human rights and freedom of expression in the
Americas this year. Since the Obama administration's December
2014 announcement that changed our approach toward Cuba, our
subcommittee has held two hearings on Cuba to examine the
national security implications of this change and the lack of
justice for almost 9,000 American claimants whose property was
stolen in the wake of Cuban Revolution.
In addition, our subcommittee has held two hearings on
freedom of expression, specifically looking at the challenges
to press freedoms and to religious liberties. I am deeply
concerned about the trajectory of both Cuba and Venezuela on
these matters.
It is striking to me that although the Obama administration
has taken great pains to change U.S. policy; delist Cuba from
state sponsor of terrorism list; and prioritize meetings with
the Cubans on environment, climate change, law enforcement,
travel, trade, and commercial airline issues, the
administration has made no real effort with the Cubans to
prioritize human rights or property claims issues. They haven't
even scheduled one single meeting in all their bilateral
discussions to raise these issues.
U.S. Department of Homeland Security officials who met in
Havana last month focused on trade and travel issues. U.S.
State Department officials who met in Havana earlier this week
prioritized economic engagement. This very week, the
administration made clear that human rights in Cuba are not a
priority.
On Tuesday, the U.S. State Department official David Thorne
stated, ``As in other parts of the world, we are really trying
to also say let's find out how we can work together and not
always say that human rights are the first thing that we have
to fix before anything else.'' So apparently, working together
is the new highest value for the administration under President
Obama rather than promoting U.S. interests and principles and
achieving results.
Reportedly, the administration is also planning further
unilateral action to ease the U.S. embargo on Cuba. In my view,
the administration's efforts toward Cuba reflect yet another
failure to follow U.S. law, which clearly requires evidence of
a democratically elected government in Cuba, the release of all
political prisoners, the allowance of human rights
organizations into Cuban prisons, and independent judiciary and
free speech and press in order to terminate the U.S. embargo in
Cuba.
Do we see evidence today in Cuba that these legal
requirements are met? I don't think so. Last year, there was an
average of 741 arbitrary detentions every month in Cuba. During
the Pope's visit 2 months ago, the number rose to 882. Last
month alone, the Havana-based Cuban Commission for Human Rights
documented over 1,000 short-term detentions by the Castro
regime. Thus, for the first 10 months of this year, the Cuban
Government has arrested and detained over 6,000 people with
complete impunity.
Unfortunately, Cubans' human rights abuses do not stop at
unlawful arrests and detainments. The Committee to Protect
Journalists ranks Cuba among the top 10 most censored countries
in the world with the regime holding an iron grip on the print
and broadcast media. The average Cuban citizen who wants to
simply rent a book from the public library must undergo
registration processes.
In addition, while Cuba's Constitution recognizes freedom
of conscience and religion, churches must register with the
government. Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons are still not
allowed to practice in the country, and the government has been
seizing church properties, imprisoning pastors, employing
brutal measures against churchgoers such as the Ladies in
White.
While the Cuban Government released El Sexto last month,
Cuba continues to hold 60 political prisoners and prevent 11
individuals released on parole from leaving the country. Three
activists arrested during the Pope's visit--and I will try to
pronounce these correctly--Zaqueo Baez Guerrero, Boris Reni,
and Maria Josefa Acon Sardinas remained imprisoned. It is clear
that the basic U.S. statutory requirements for terminating or
adjusting the U.S. embargo have not been met, and the U.S.
Congress has a constitutional responsibility to provide a check
and balance on the administration's action.
Now, let's turn our attention to Venezuela. In Venezuela,
the climate for freedom and human rights is also ice-cold. Last
year's violence by Venezuelan state security forces against
unarmed student protesters and bystanders was appalling. The
harsh reaction by the Maduro regime against these protesters
resulted in the deaths of more than 43 people, and almost 900
people were injured. The press reports of the severe beatings,
live firing of ammunition and teargas into crowds and arrests,
beatings, and torture of the student protesters were chilling.
Between 2014 and this past September there have been more
than 3,000 detentions for political reasons in Venezuela. The
number of political prisoners in Venezuela has surpassed those
in Cuba. Attacks and arrests in Venezuela have affected not
only political distance. Reportedly, the government has been
increasingly targeting human rights defenders and local human
rights groups. The government has even detained people who were
caught by the intelligence agencies giving food, water, or
other types of assistance to the protesters.
In addition, Venezuela has one of the worst media
environments in the region. Freedom House ranked Venezuela
176th out of 199 countries listing it as ``not free'' in its
2015 report.
Similarly, government hostility to religion has led to
complaints by Catholic bishops of expropriations, harassment,
electronic surveillance, and phone-tapping. Priests have even
been disbarred or debarred from hospitals and prisons as well.
It is laughable that in July the Maduro government
announced a 4-year human rights plan to promote a culture of
human rights when stories of human rights atrocities continue
unabated: Individuals such as Marco Coello, a student who was
jailed and tortured for 5 months; Alejandro Marquez, who was
beaten, tortured, and murdered last year; Marcelo Crovato, a
human rights lawyer detained without arrest warrant, imprisoned
for 10 months and now living under house arrest without trial;
Leopoldo Lopez, who, after a sham trial, was sentenced to
almost 14 years in prison, all yet to receive any justice for
the government's actions against them. Recent statements by the
leading prosecutor of Leopoldo Lopez, his case, now calls the
trial a farce based on false evidence.
So in conclusion, I am deeply concerned about the human
rights situation in Cuba and in Venezuela. In my view, we have
seen no results from U.S.-Cuba policy shift or the many
conversations that Thomas Shannon with the State Department has
had with the Venezuelan Government. I believe the U.S. Congress
can do more to hold the Obama administration accountable for
their actions on these issues and more. And I believe the
United States must do a better job communicating a clear
message of support to the victims of human rights abuses in
Cuba and Venezuela and to both regimes that such repression is
utterly deplorable and it must end.
With that, I will turn to the ranking member Mr. Grayson,
who is on the Committee on Foreign Affairs and acting as
ranking member today for the Subcommittee on the Western
Hemisphere for any opening statement he would like to make. I
look forward to learning more from our witnesses today.
So I will turn to Mr. Grayson.
Mr. Grayson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our
witnesses for joining us today. I had a prepared statement, but
I am not going to give it to you because in some sense this is
personal, and I want to talk about it personally to all of you.
My grandparents, all four of them, fled from Eastern Europe
because of violations of their human rights and for the human
rights of Jews all over the area.
We see this same kind of suffering now in various parts of
the world, and it is our duty as human beings to fight it, to
make sure that we stand with others who are being oppressed.
That is our function as leaders and as individuals.
I am pleased to represent central Florida and specifically
Orlando in Congress. My district has more people who were born
in other countries than people who were born in Florida. In
fact, if you look around the State, the number of people in the
State who were born in other countries approaches the number
who were born here in Florida.
That gives us a unique perspective, and it gives us a
unique circumstance that is not met in other parts of the
country, specifically this: When we talk about foreign affairs,
we are not talking about necessarily foreign affairs, something
removed from us, something foreign to us. Instead, we are
talking about, in many cases, our mothers, our fathers, our
sisters, our brothers. These are the people who are connected
to us in intimate ways even though they happen to live in other
countries. And many of them weren't fortunate enough to be born
in a place that is a free place.
When I was growing up, there were countries all over Latin
America that were not free. In fact, the only country 50 years
ago when I was a boy that did not have a military government in
Latin America was a country that didn't have a military: Costa
Rica. Virtually every other country south of the border had a
military government in one form or another when I was a child.
Now, we have seen a tremendous transformation all through
Latin America since then. And today, so many people live in
freedom. So many people can accomplish whatever it is that they
can accomplish in life. And that is what this is really all
about. Every one of us is a unique bundle of interests, skills,
talents, and limitations. I see it in my five children for
sure.
And what we want above all is we want people to be able to
reach their potential without being barred from that by
discrimination, by hunger, by a lack of education, by poverty,
and specifically by a lack of freedom. That is an entirely
artificial barrier so easily removed.
Now, in the case of Cuba, I think it is important to
understand that the perpetrator of this lack of freedom is the
Cuban Government. I think it is wrong in this context to take
shots at President Obama for doing his best to try to break the
logjam that has been the mark of human relations in Cuba, and
relations between the United States and Cuba now for more than
half a century.
It is clear to everyone who is going to be objective about
this that the previous policies between the United States and
Cuba simply didn't work. If the purpose was to bring freedom to
Cuba over the course of the past half-century, those policies
simply failed. And it is wrong to point the finger at President
Obama for trying to come up with a solution to this festering
problem.
I went to Cuba a few years ago legally as part of a
religious group, and what I saw was a country where the people
simply didn't have opportunity. I saw a remarkably hardworking
group of people. I saw a country full of people who are
remarkably creative. How else could you possibly keep half-
century-old cars on the road except through remarkable
creativity? And I saw a beautiful land with a great deal of
natural resources.
What I saw was a government that was essentially enslaving
people, keeping them from achieving anything remotely
resembling their potential. And I saw a government that was
mired in early 20th century logic and ideas and keeping its
people from reaching their potential individually. That is sad.
We need a way to change that. What we are doing now is
trying a different policy, which might be referred to as
constructive engagement. We have seen some fruit being borne
from that--the release of 53 political prisoners--but
obviously, it is not enough.
I myself, a Democrat, I call on the administration to adopt
a policy that is not all carrot and no stick but rather a
policy of accountability, a policy with the right amount of
carrot and the right amount of stick. And in the course of
doing so, I think that we will continue to see progress made
toward human rights, and in particular, progress made toward
what I think of as the American ideal, which is to allow every
single human being, whatever their nationality, wherever they
are from, whatever they look like, whatever language they
speak, regardless, reach their true potential in life.
With regard to Venezuela, we are seeing a social experiment
on its last legs. The social experiment was obviously based
upon a high price for oil. With a low price for oil, that
social experiment has now failed. And we are seeing a
government desperately trying to cling to power by blaming its
victims.
One of the more remarkable elements of modern politics is
that there are some people who seem to think there is some
benefit that when you violate human rights, you blame the
people whose rights are being violated and you try to make
political hay out of that.
Anybody who has looked at the polls recently understands
that the Maduro government is heading for a terrible defeat.
Earlier this year, they were down 2 to 1 in the polls. When
they did things like what they did to imprison Leopoldo Lopez,
give him a 14-year sentence, blame him for the violence
perpetrated against his supporters, their polls plunged even
worse than they were before. Now, this government is looking at
a 3 to 1 defeat in the polls.
So I think it is fair to say that many of us expect that
that terrible and unfair and unjust sentence, blaming the
victim, will never actually be carried out in full.
Democracy still seems to function fairly well in Venezuela.
We do expect an election. I will certainly do my part to make
sure, with the committee, with the Members of Congress to see
to it that we have the election that can bring real change to
Venezuela and the restoration of freedom in Venezuela.
In the meantime, we have to ask what we can do as Members
of Congress, as leaders, as leaders of a community that is very
diverse, that includes Venezuelans, that includes Cubans, that
includes people from everywhere all around the world.
And the answer is, first, we can bear witness. That is what
we are doing today. We are simply getting together and
listening to people who have been victims and bearing witness.
Amnesty International does that every day for people who are
similarly situated, and it is a great boon because then people
understand that when they are victims, they are not alone and
that their situation is not ultimately desperate because we all
stand together.
In addition to that, in hearing this testimony today we
also bring to bear the great power and authority both moral and
in other reforms of the U.S. Government. We are here as
representatives of the U.S. Government, we are here as
policymakers for the U.S. Government, and we are here to learn
about what we can do to improve human rights in these places--
in Latin America, in these two countries, and otherwise--and
bring the future forward, bring these countries into the 21st
century, not mired in 19th or 20th century ideology, bring the
future forward and reach a time when everybody, everybody in
every nation can be all that he or she can be.
I am Congressman Alan Grayson. Thank you.
Mr. Duncan. I want to thank the gentleman from Florida, and
now I will recognize the gentleman from middle Florida, Mr.
DeSantis, for an opening statement he may have.
Mr. DeSantis. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for
bringing this important issue down to Florida where I know it
has so much resonance. I am really looking forward to hearing
from the witnesses so I will be very brief.
The Obama administration's policy toward Cuba has provided
an economic lifeline to the Castro dictatorship, but has not
fostered greater freedoms for the Cuban people. Indeed,
political repression has increased since the move toward
normalization with the dictatorship in Havana. We must have a
policy that supports the aspirations of the Cuban people, not
the needs of the Castro regime.
[Speaking foreign language.]
Mr. DeSantis. I yield back.
Mr. Duncan. I thank the gentleman and now recognize another
gentleman from Florida, Mr. Curbelo, for any opening statement
he may have.
Mr. Curbelo. Mr. Chairman, first thing I want to do is
welcome you to our community on behalf of my colleagues Ileana
Ros-Lehtinen and Mario Diaz-Balart, who could not be here. They
send their best and they thank you for your commitment to
freedom, to democracy, and to human rights.
I also want to welcome two colleagues who are no strangers
to south Florida, but welcome Congressman DeSantis and
Congressman Grayson. I am also very familiar with your
longstanding commitment to these very important issues.
And we hold this hearing today in a most appropriate place.
This is the home of so many victims of the Castro regime and of
the Venezuelan regime. This is the place where hundreds of
thousands if not more have sought freedom, have sought refuge,
and this community has embraced all of them with open arms.
This country has embraced all of them with open arms. And by
the way, they have contributed a lot to this community and to
this country.
So today, it is my privilege to welcome you and to join you
in exploring the situation in Cuba, the situation in Venezuela,
and of course U.S. policy toward both of these countries.
For many years, in the case of Cuba, our Government had a
policy of solidarity with the victims of the regime. Many feel
that has now changed.
In Venezuela, we are also concerned as we see the
administration meeting with people like Diosdado Cabello,
someone who is responsible for numerous, numerous, countless
human rights abuses in Venezuela. So this is very timely.
And, Mr. Chairman, welcome, and thank you very much.
Mr. Duncan. I want to thank the gentleman.
Before I recognize the witness, I would like to enter into
the record a letter from my colleague who serves as the
chairman of the Western Hemisphere Subcommittee on the Foreign
Relations Committee in the United States Senate. Senator Marco
Rubio has provided a letter.
And without objection, so ordered.
Before I recognize you for your testimony, let me say thank
you for your willingness to be here today. And I will let you
know that each of you have 5 minutes. I am not sure if we have
the lighting system working today, but you have 5 minutes for
your oral statement. If you would try to stay in that length,
it would be much appreciated. And then after you testify, the
committee members will have 5 minutes to ask you questions, and
we will advance.
The biographies are in your notes provided, so I won't go
through the biographies, and we will just begin recognizing Mr.
Antonio Rodiles. You are now recognized for 5 minutes, and
thank you for being here.
STATEMENT OF MR. ANTONIO RODILES, CUBAN DISSIDENT
Mr. Rodiles. Thank you----
Mr. Duncan. Oh, make sure the microphone is on. I don't
know if----
Mr. Rodiles. Yes.
Mr. Duncan. There are buttons there. Okay.
Mr. Rodiles. Yes? Yes, it is working.
Well, first of all, thank you for the opportunity to appear
before you today. I am sharing my particular perspective about
Cuba and the role in the world.
My name is Antonio Rodiles Gonzalez-Rodiles. I head Estado
de SATS, a forum created in 2010 by a group of young artists,
intellectuals, and professionals to encourage debate about
social, cultural, and political issues in Cuba. I am also a co-
coordinator of the forum for the rights and freedom which bring
together several opposition groups.
We have witnessed the emergence of a new international bloc
of authoritarian and neo-totalitarian states working together
closely to stem the tide of liberal democracy that swept the
world in the past 200 years. From Europe to Middle East to
Latin America, this bloc continues to grow. The military
dictatorship in Havana, Putin's Russia, the Iranian theocracy
are essential parts of this alliance of the enemies of freedom.
This bloc will adapt in order to survive even if that means
pretending to be free marketers.
Castro Cubans claim it is updating its model, only seeks
economic survival by allowing the other members of this
alliance certain market mechanisms to operate, but it preserves
the repressive character and continue to subordinate
fundamental rights and freedom to the interests of its military
dictatorship.
Cubans' intervention in Venezuela has been most alarming.
The Maduro government is a puppet regime run by the Cuban
advisor. Likewise, Havana emissaries are present in key roles
in Bolivia, Ecuador, and Nicaragua, to name just a few
countries in the region.
Their electoral process has been twisted. State actors and
institutions are used to steadily dismantle democratic
mechanisms and institutions, and paramilitary actors are used
to repress with no legal consequence.
Furthermore, the formation of regional organizations such
as ALBA and CELAC are providing international credibility and
pressuring democratic nations to accept these spurious
democracies. Not surprisingly, these policies are contrary to
the interests of the United States.
There are many other signs of Cuban pervasive influence in
the region. To name just a few, first, a significant increase
on human trafficking of Cubans through Mexico and Central
America is taking place in coordination with organized crime;
second, there is evidence of connection between Cuba and
Venezuela in the drug trade; and third, Cuba, long-tied to the
Colombian FARC, leads the talk for that terrorist organization
to gain impunity and attain power in Colombia.
Furthermore, in south Florida, the abuse of the Cuban
Adjustment Act has allowed criminal rings from Cuba to stage
systematic insurance, credit card, and Medicare fraud and
stealing billions of dollars. The level of sophistication of
these illegal enterprises and the fact that hundreds of
millions are traced back to Cuba suggests the involvement of
the Cuban regime. The future of the region we can see will have
much to do with a democratization or not of Cuba.
Meanwhile, on the island the outlook is complex. A
transition from totalitarianism to authoritarianism is
occurring in the context of a very dire situation in a nation
that is completely de-capitalized and impoverished facing
growing social unrest and widespread corruption.
Raul Castro's children are by all accounts his presumed
political heirs. The plan is to warranty continued
authoritarian rule with the support of all regional allies and
the international bloc. The hopes are no doubt pinned on
President Obama's support to sustain the planned succession of
power to the next generation of Castros. The repressive
machinery works full blast in order illegal subject to the
police state.
Our work is focused principally on seeking a democratic
transition and establishment of the rule of law in the midst of
a very challenging external and internal environment. On the
island, we confront a regime that enjoys total impunity in
abusing the population. Internationally, we face the decline of
the democratic principles and commitments.
The steps taken by President Obama are in the present
context unwise and to date have proved very dangerous. After
the policy shift, the Europeans have followed the U.S. lead in
appeasing the dictatorship. This is granting legitimacy and
additional resources to a criminal regime that has shown ample
capacity to adapt at crucial moments. Importantly, allowing the
consolidation of neo-Castroism validates authoritarianism as an
alternative to democracy in the region.
The majority of Cuban civil society has expressed its
disagreement with the lack of transparency and the
unconditional character of the normalization process. We also
reject the opinion and interests of vital players from the
opposition both internal and in exile were ignored during the
discussion leading to the President's announcement last
December.
China and Vietnam clearly demonstrate the fallacy of the
argument that attaining certain economic freedom brings about
civil and political liberties. The economic transformation of
both countries has been cited by the Obama administration to
justify a change of policy toward Cuba. Notwithstanding even of
those two authoritarian countries, foreign companies are
allowed to freely recruit and directly pay their employees.
The Castro regime, meanwhile, exerts absolute control over
the labor market, retaining or confiscating around 90 percent
of the hard currency earnings for all Cubans working in the
foreign sectors. It then invests these profits in its
repressive machine. This is modern-day slavery that will not
lead to the empowerment of the Cuban workers.
A change of direction is fundamental. Concrete demands must
be made to the regime, and the process must involve the active
participation of indispensable opposition leaders. This is also
a crucial time to prioritize the respect of fundamental freedom
for each nation in the region.
The good news in this grim scenario is that every one of
these neo-totalitarian or authoritarian states there are pro-
democratic movements tenaciously struggling for freedom.
Recently, the Forum for Rights and Freedom was created in Cuba.
It has brought together an important assembly of leaders and
groups within the island and in exile demanding a roadmap of
seven points. Its logic is tied to the implementation of the
Covenants on Human Rights of the United Nations.
The forum, together with the vast majority of the Cuban
resistance, subscribes to the 10-point Agreement for Democracy,
which lays out a consensus of what the standards should be for
a transformation to a democracy in Cuba.
In Cuba, for the past 29 Sundays, the forum has carried out
the Todos Marchamos--``We All March''--campaign of weekly
demonstration led by the courageous Ladies in White, together
with the organizations such as Resistance Front, Estado de
SATS, UNPACU, and others, demanding the general amnesty for
political prisoners and the end of political persecution in
Cuba.
The courage of these civil rights demonstrators have been
met with the brutality of the Castro regime and its
paramilitary groups. All sorts of violence and abuse, including
beatings, are taking place as the regime tried to stop the
movement that has spread throughout the island.
Until the last December, the people of this great democracy
could be counted on to stand with the oppressed people of Cuba.
President after President, Democrat and Republicans, has stood
with us in the demand for fundamental rights. The Congress
fortunately still stands with the people of Cuba. That is
essential for our struggle for freedom. We hope that we can
continue to count on your support.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Rodiles follows:]
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----------
Mr. Duncan. Thank you, sir.
And now, Ms. Iriondo is recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF MS. SYLVIA IRIONDO, PRESIDENT, MOTHERS AND WOMEN
AGAINST REPRESSION (M.A.R. POR CUBA)
Ms. Iriondo. Honorable Chairman Duncan and members of the
subcommittee, good morning. Thank you for giving me this
opportunity to speak before you about the ongoing systematic
violations of human rights in Cuba. I will be summarizing my
written statement.
Political scientists today said that the dynastic communist
dictatorship that rules Cuba has changed, although the truth is
that the island remains a tightly controlled totalitarian state
with a single-party system where there is no rule of law, no
separation of powers, the executive controls the legislature
and the courts, where citizens are denied fundamental human
rights and civil liberties, and where workers and labor rights
do not exist.
Into that undeniable reality entered President Obama when
he began negotiating normalization of relations with dictator
Raul Castro more than 2 years ago, a secret negotiation that
brought about his new U.S.-Cuba policy announced on December 17
of last year.
Almost a year later, the situation on the ground clearly
shows that the Obama administration made many concessions not
merited by the facts, such as returning to Cuba several Cuban
spies that were serving time in American prisons, one of whom
had been sentenced to two consecutive life terms, one for his
role in the shoot-down by Cuban MiGs in international airspace
of two civilian defenseless Brothers to the Rescue planes
conducting a humanitarian search-and-rescue flight to save
lives in the Straits of Florida, which resulted in the
premeditated murders of three American citizens and one U.S.
resident: Carlos Costa, Armando Alejandre, Jr., Mario de la
Pena, and Pablo Morales, young men full of dreams that were
left unfulfilled as the Castros perpetrated one of the most
horrendous crimes in the long list of crimes committed by the
regime throughout its 56 years in power with total impunity.
Armando Alejandre, Jr., had voluntarily enlisted in the
U.S. Army and served two terms of duty in Vietnam.
The individual who ordered the shoot-down was none other
than Cuba's Minister of the Armed Forces at the time, General
Raul Castro. I was on board the third and only plane that made
it back to base on that fateful day of February 24, 1996.
And pulling Cuba out of the list of governments that
support international terrorism while several dozen fugitives
wanted by the FBI are welcomed in the island. To this day, an
American terrorist who killed a New Jersey State trooper in
cold blood was sentenced to life in prison, escaped, and went
to live in Cuba, remains among the FBI's 10 Most Wanted.
Regrettably, it seems that not all American lives have the same
value.
In regards to human rights in Cuba, the results are in. In
April 2015 President Obama and Raul Castro met at the Seventh
Summit of the Americas in Panama. They shook hands and
pronounced a joint statement the next day, while Cuban state
security agents demonstrated the true criminal nature of the
regime by conducting violent acts of harassment to undermine
events of the summit to which Cuba's and Venezuela's
independent civil society representatives had been invited to
participate.
I was part of the delegation of the Assembly of the Cuban
Resistance in Panama, which was a victim of a brutal violent
assault by a group of the regimes so-called diplomats and state
security agents who stormed out of the Cuban Embassy located in
the vicinity of the Parque Porras while our group placed a
wreath at the statue of Cuban Apostle of Independence Jose
Marti. One of the repressors was Alexis Frutos Weeden, a top-
ranking intelligence agent for the Castro regime, who was
subsequently identified as leading repressive activities in
Venezuela.
The attack, caught on film and reported by the news media,
was of such violent nature that many of the activists needed
emergency medical treatment. The pro-democracy delegation was
detained by Panamanian police authorities for over 8 hours
before being released, threatened with deportation and advised
that they would have to go stand trial before a night judge,
while Castro's thugs enjoyed total impunity.
Officials from the U.S. Embassy in Panama finally showed up
at the detention center many hours later just as we were being
released close to midnight.
Two days after, we had the opportunity to meet with a House
delegation which included this subcommittee's chairman Jeff
Duncan, who expressed his concern and made the following public
statement at the time,
``The unrelenting and merciless impression of the Cuban
people by a regime hostile to liberty is a direct
rejection of the values we as Americans hold sacred. No
regime should be rewarded for such appalling acts.
There is no cause dearer to Americans than the cause of
freedom. The Cuban people have not forgotten the
oppression they face daily, and we will not forget
about them.''
That a well-known agent of the intelligence apparatus of
the Castro dictatorship, responsible for directing violent
repression against young Venezuelan students, was there
directly involved in the Parque Porras assault of our
delegation does not bode well for human rights in our
hemisphere. That this was allowed to happen in a free country
within a summit that purports to uphold democratic values is
simply unacceptable.
Prior to and during Pope Francis' recent visit to the
island, the Castro regime unleashed a violent wave of
repression with over 350 detentions of peaceful activists.
Three Cubans who attempted to hand a letter to Pope Francis
denouncing the situation in the island were immediately
arrested and have been kept incommunicado ever since.
The Ladies in White are beaten by the police, and state
security agents dressed as civilians and taken to prison. In
spite of this, they have marched, together with other
courageous leaders of the pro-democracy movement, for 28
consecutive Sundays as part of the Todos Marchamos, ``We All
March'' campaign. This past Sunday alone, approximately 70
activists and Ladies in White were detained in Havana and
around 80 in the Oriental region of the island.
There has been a significant increase in repression and in
the number of arbitrary political detentions, beatings, and
abuse. More than 880 politically motivated detentions were
registered for the month of September. October has been even
worse, with 1,093 arbitrary detentions for political motives
accounted for.
Prominent members of the civic resistance movement in Cuba
have died under highly suspicious extrajudicial and sudden
circumstances, such as Laura Pollan Toledo and Oswaldo Paya
Sardinas, to name a few of the most recent cases.
In conclusion, the President's Cuba policy has emboldened
and enabled the regime, which continues to maintain its
oppressive yoke upon the Cuban people, while misleading the
international and business community with false expectations in
order to generate the resources it desperately needs to stay in
power.
Nothing has changed in Cuba under Castro's dictatorship
that warrants unilateral concessions on the part of the United
States. Human rights continue to be systematically violated.
Fundamental freedoms continue to be denied. Thus, it is not
U.S. policy that needs to change, but the Castro regime.
In an interview this week in Havana, David Thorne, Special
Advisor to the Secretary of State, talked about human rights in
Cuba. The interview was carried by Reuters. Mr. Thorne said
that the Obama administration will not condition improvements
on the human rights situation in Cuba to American-Cuba policy,
explaining that the administration is simply applying to Cuba
the same policies applied elsewhere. Mr. Thorne also said that
the pace of change, including human rights, is to be determined
by the Cuban dictatorship and that the administration is
satisfied with how things are going.
It is my hope that Congress will continue to insist on
human rights as an important part of American foreign policy.
Until human rights and fundamental freedoms are restored, all
political prisoners are unconditionally released, all laws
against fundamental liberties are repealed, political parties
are legalized and there are free multiparty elections in Cuba,
the United States should stand united in solidarity with the
aspirations of the Cuban people. Embracing a dictatorship in
Cuba bodes ill for the aspirations for democracy and freedom of
peoples throughout the Western Hemisphere and Cuba.
As Chairman Duncan so aptly stated,
``The unrelenting and merciless oppression of the Cuban
people by a regime hostile to liberty is a direct
rejection of the values we as Americans hold as
sacred.''
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Iriondo follows:]
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----------
Mr. Duncan. Thank you so much. The video you referenced of
the thugs in Panama attacking the protesters or the peaceful--
not protesters but the memorial was powerful. Thanks for
referencing that.
Ms. Iriondo. Thank you.
Mr. Duncan. Yes, ma'am.
The Chair will now recognize the next gentlemen, which is
the reverend. And I can't pronounce your full name, so help me
with that. Lleonart Barroso?
Rev. Lleonart Barroso. Mario Felix Lleonart Barroso.
Mr. Duncan. Okay. Gracias.
Rev. Lleonart Barroso. Si.
Mr. Duncan. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF THE REVEREND MARIO FELIX LLEONART BARROSO, PASTOR,
EBENEZER BAPTIST CHURCH IN VILLA CLARA, CUBA
[The following statement and answers were delivered through
an interpreter.]
Rev. Lleonart Barroso. Thank you very much, Mr. Duncan.
Good morning, Chairman Duncan, Mr. Grayson, Mr. DeSantis, Mr.
Curbelo, other members of the subcommittee, especially Rebecca
Ulrich. May God bless the United States. May God bless Cuba. I
am a pastor, a Baptist pastor there. I have arrived from there
yesterday to render this testimony here. Ever since the year
2000, I am applying myself full-time to the Christian ministry.
Ever since the time when the socialists fall in the Europe
of the East, and given its need for international support to
continue in power, which constitutes the supreme objective of
the Havana regime, this attempts to deceive the entire world,
trying to make others believe that, in Cuba, they will no
longer violate religious liberty and freedom like it was done
before. I come here to affirm that some of these violations
have evolved, just that, they have become more subtle, some of
them. Others continue to be tacky, as always.
In the particular case of the religious freedom, I
perfectly know that authoritarianism cannot go against itself.
Even though they have numerous licenses given to the state by
the United States, given the exchange of religious materials in
the island, the internal blockage imposed by the national
authorities impedes any of the benefits.
Since the closest case is the one that I myself live in my
own flesh and about which I can really talk with all authority,
I will now refer to specific cases concerning my church, my
family, and cousins. Some of them have been reiterated during
the last weeks.
I have been denied any movement to nearby locations to
serve as a pastor. For instance, in the city of Bejucal, a few
kilometers from the city of Havana, this way my pastorship
activity has been restricted to several rural communities where
besides being stopped my minister is counteract. I and my wife
have been denied the registration for a doctor's degree in a
theological school in Cuba. On several occasions I have been
detained and moved to police facilities on several occasions
against the law.
In other situations I also have faced domestic arrest
against my will. That is also against the law. During the
recent Papal visit, hundreds of people suffered the same
condition, the same situation.
In this room here sits Mr. Leonardo Rodriguez Alonso. He
traveled along with me yesterday from Cuba. He is a member of a
Masonic lodge in the island. And he also has abundant material
that deals with how the fraternal organizations suffer in the
island. Mr. Leonardo, he was able to tape, to record, to
videotape his detention by the police forces to prevent him
from attending the Papal masses in Cuba.
Many members of my church have been subjects of threatening
warnings and mistreatment. Also, the case has been with people
that live in my community so that they cannot attend church.
Ever since January 2013, when some of us were able to
travel away from Cuba, I have been detained at the airport
itself when I returned to be interrogated upon my return. Every
time that I have returned to the island from a trip, my luggage
has always been inspected as if I was a traffic lord or a narco
trafficker. But the merchandise seized has not been drugs but
literature on many occasions of a religious nature, and even
versions of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
The most recent of these situations was just 2 weeks ago,
Saturday, October 24, wherein 64 versions or copies were
confiscated that I wanted to share with members of my church,
and those are of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Periodically, meetings take place, which are called upon by
leaders of the Communist Party in Cuba to move their colleagues
to reinforce, to double-up their forces.
The ceiling where Baptist church is located that had just
collapsed and needs to be repaired, but they did not issue the
necessary permit. And as the way of blackmailing my church,
they have mentioned orally that while I continue to be the
pastor, they will not issue it.
The education of the children in Cuba is in the hands of
the state monopoly. It imposes a strong doctrine and is
manipulated to distribute political material. On many occasions
that is violent in nature and the icon is Che Guevara. This has
traumatic effects on my two daughters, Rocio and Rachel,
especially on the youngest one Rachel who is 7 years old in her
second grade at school. Practically every night of September
and October she has cried thinking that the following day she
has to return to school where she does not feel comfortable,
especially because she there is taught principles which are
contrary to the ones that we teach them in Sunday school.
On occasions, the boycotts have been attempted to be
boycotted as far as our religious services through the use of
gangs manipulated by the authorities.
Last night, upon arrival from Cuba, I have posted a video
on YouTube of acts of this nature perpetrated just 1\1/2\ weeks
ago on Sunday, October 25.
Property which are mine or of my wife's have been
confiscated by the police force in the case of our personal
laptops, but the worst part is not the confiscation, but the
grade, the degree of being defenseless in which we have fallen
having to appear at the judicial stages, supposedly in
existence to defend us but from which we haven't even had a
reply, violating their own rules.
The leaders of the western Cuban Baptist churches, the ones
that are the churches that I lead or affiliated with--the
leaders of the Baptist convention to which my church is
affiliated continuously receives pressure from the office of
the Communist Party.
My personal correspondence is violated. My mobile service
is totally manipulated.
But setting aside my particular case, because I just
pointed out that I am just a little example, even which is
worse, at a legally recognized church and registered ever since
1939 in Cuba, if this happens to me, that allegedly had legal
representation in Cuba, what can we say about hundreds of
groups that are in existence for many years in the island and
they are not even recognized legally?
I want to point out more in particular one of the apostolic
groups and the Baptist mission Berean, and their leaders and
members are continuously oppressed.
With the help of Christian solidarity, ever since September
2013 we have set up 30 questions that in general question the
freedom of religion within the island. I will try to mention
the 30 questions briefly.
Why do they keep the Office for Attention to Religious
Affairs of the Central Committee? And if it is not its
competence to define whether who should believe or if it is
proper to believe or not?
Why don't they return the majority of the property
confiscated during the years of open persecution or they
indentify the affected religious groups?
Why do they threaten with confiscation of property,
especially of the non-recognized or formed religious groups?
Why they have not asked forgiveness for the imprisonments
for those interned in the concentration camps known as UMAPs,
or even they have been murdered for holding different
ideologies?
Why hasn't anyone been held accountable for the wave of
repression which took place during the visit of Pope Benedict
XVI that took place in 2012 and whereby many thousands of
people were oppressed and threatened? And the same thing
occurred recently with the visit of Pope Francis.
Why do they continue to deny access to the mass media to
the religious organizations?
It is 30 questions. It is up on the web. I just wanted to
point out. You can look for them. Within the 30 questions there
is mention also about the two violations that were rendered as
part of the previous two testimonies that preceded me, the
violent repression during 28 consecutive Sundays already to the
Ladies in White and their campaign We All March. The 30
questions are on the Internet. You have it in hand. Time does
not suffice for me for so many violations.
That regime does not deserve any support, but demands
condemnation and by all the good will men like yourselves.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Rev. Lleonart Barroso follows:]
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----------
Mr. Duncan. Gracias.
Thank you all for your testimony. The courage this
exhibited by folks that are oppressed is amazing, and so I
thank you for your courage.
And so we are going to enter into the questioning phase. I
will recognize myself for 5 minutes and then each member will
have 5 minutes as well.
Mr. Rodiles, you said in your statement, you talked about
market freedoms about ``the bloc allows for certain market
freedoms, all the while preserving structures that are subject
to fundamental rights and freedoms to the interest of strongmen
and populists.'' And you also reference the example of China
and Vietnam, which is held out by certain proponents that want
to open up Cuba as examples to where the citizens benefit.
I would like you to go into that a little bit more. Your
comparison of China and Vietnam but also what we see Castro
Maduro doing with allowing some market freedoms but ultimately
oppressing the populous, if you could just delve into that a
little bit more for me.
Mr. Rodiles. Well, reality, they are pretending that they
are going to open a little bit economy, but in real terms, we
see that they are trying to open for foreign companies to come
to Cuba to invest, but they want the rest of Cubans to keep out
of these kind of businesses and enterprises, not only the
Cubans that are inside of the island, also the Cubans that are
outside.
They don't want the Cuban-American capital there. They
don't want it really free for economics issues. They want to
keep the same control in that way.
For example, if you see right now the taxation, the
corruption, the political loyalty that they are demanding for
the people that get involved in business, you realize that the
idea is not to start to open the economy little by little in
the way to create a middle class or a class of businessmen.
They don't want that in mind. What they want is to create a
monopoly from a group of people especially in the army that
they are controlling right now all the important businesses,
and they want people to go to Cuba to invest, but the kind of
people that don't care about what is happening with Cubans.
For example, last day we were listening about the Sprint
company, the telephone company that went to Cuba to make
businesses with ETECSA. And what is happening with ETECSA every
Sunday, for example, they cut our telephone lines. Sometimes
even they send a fake message to create this information about
what is happening with us. Then, what kind of enterprise they
are going--you need to go to Cuba to make business with
enterprises that are responding all the time to the interests
of the political state.
Mr. Duncan. Thank you for that.
We in America take our access to information for granted I
think in a lot of ways. Just at my fingertips on a phone I can
find out pretty much the answer to any question that I may
have. I can read news stories from around the globe, and I can
also get on social media and push out a message.
Explain to me and the American people--and either witness--
how the lack of having access to an open press and access to
information, access to the internet to be able to understand--
talk about the censorship you are seeing in Cuba and Venezuela
a little bit for us. And I will start with Mr. Rodiles, and
then we will go to Ms. Iriondo.
Mr. Rodiles. Well, I think that one important point here to
understand how it is working, the totalitarian system, we need
to understand that in general they are working hard to break
the society, to automate the society. And for that they need
this information of the people. They need to put the propaganda
in the mind of people, the rest of the citizens, and to send a
message that they cannot do anything against the totalitarian
regime. And this is something crucial.
If you see the TV in Cuba, you are going to realize that
they always--the propaganda is sending the message that
everybody that is against the system is a mercenary person, is
a delinquent, you know, all the adjectives, pejorative
adjectives in order to diminish the moral quality of that
person. Then, in all these totalitarian systems, the propaganda
is a key issue for them.
In the case of Cuba there is not any kind of independent
media. All the media are controlled by the government, and all
the time they are sending that kind of message and they are
controlling all the information that is surrounding inside of
the country.
Mr. Duncan. Excuse me for interrupting, but I understand in
Cuba folks on one side of the island don't know what folks on
the other side of the island know. There is no continuity of
communication or information-sharing.
This deal with Sprint communications for cellular service,
how do you think that is going to assist the Cubans being able
to communicate and also to share information?
Mr. Rodiles. You mean about the Sprint company or----
Mr. Duncan. Sprint, the cellular service just signed an
agreement this week----
Mr. Rodiles. Yes.
Mr. Duncan [continuing]. Last week with Cuba. Do you think
that will help facilitate the flow of information?
Mr. Rodiles. You know, the point here is that we need to
understand that every contract, or everything that you go to
Cuba, that you do with the Cuban Government is going to pass
through the Cuban regime and is going to pass through the state
police. This is the main point here. When you go to Cuba, you
are not making business with a company. You are making business
with the Cuban regime. And they have a huge control apparatus
to take everything and put in the same path. And the same path
is to fight for the power, to keep the power. And this is
something crucial that we need to understand.
When the Obama administration say that they are going to
implement some policies to empower the Cuban people, I don't
know why they don't mention that in order to reach that point,
they need to convince the Cuban regime to do the steps, because
what we see now is that they don't have that movement in mind.
What they want is to--what they have is a key point is to keep
the power. And they are not doing anything, absolutely anything
that can challenge that possibility.
Mr. Duncan. Right. Ms. Iriondo?
Ms. Iriondo. I would like to reiterate something that
Antonio said, and also my good friend Dr. Jose Acel in multiple
conferences have stated over and over again we have to
understand that it is not doing business in Cuba. It is doing
business with Cuba. And Cuba is controlled by Castro's regime.
So the business you are doing it with the regime, with the
military, with the regime that controls all businesses. Being
able to clean choose is not private enterprise.
The categories of cuentapropistas, what they are trying to
project that have been so monumental changes, those are meager
jobs. And Cubans have to pay taxes and Cubans cannot be
employed directly by the foreign companies. They have to go
through a state agency that, for example, if a worker is paid
by a foreign company $1,000 for his salary, the government
pockets around 91 percent and gives the worker the balance,
which is almost like forced labor. And those practices are the
practices that are going on in Cuba.
As to the Sprint that Rodiles was talking about, what they
don't say is that roaming charges cost $3 a minute. I wonder
how many Cubans, how much of the independent civil society in
Cuba can access roaming at $3 a minute when their monthly
salaries amount to the equivalent of 20 U.S. dollars.
Mr. Duncan. Wow. That is powerful. Thank you. I am out of
time.
I think the most profound statement that you made was when
you are doing business with Cuba, you are not doing business in
Cuba, you are doing business with Cuba. And Cuba equals Castro.
Ms. Iriondo. Exactly.
Mr. Duncan. No doubt. So I will turn to the ranking member
for questioning for 5 minutes.
Mr. Grayson. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going to see
whether we can all agree that the previous policy of the U.S.
Government that was sustained for 50 years did not bring
freedom or democracy to Cuba. Is that a fair statement, Mr.
Rodiles?
Mr. Rodiles. Well, but then you need to analyze also that
the policy that was followed by Canada and Spain and France and
Mexico didn't work also.
Mr. Grayson. Okay. But ours didn't work and that is what I
was asking.
What about you, Ms. Iriondo? Is it a fair statement, do we
all agree that the previous policy did not bring freedom or
democracy to Cuba?
Ms. Iriondo. If I may say U.S. policy for Cuba was not
intended to bring down the regime but to support the Cuban
people, to stand in solidarity with the Cuban people. And that
policy has impeded Castro's regime from obtaining international
credits, which he doesn't pay afterwards, and receiving more
resources to stay in power.
I don't think that U.S. policy failed. I don't think that
when you stand by a policy of solidarity with freedom, which
is, you know, something that we as Americans hold sacred, I
don't think that is a failed policy.
What has failed is a regime----
Mr. Grayson. Ms. Iriondo, how would you answer my question?
Ms. Iriondo. What has failed is the regime. That is the----
Mr. Grayson. Ms. Iriondo, how would you answer----
Ms. Iriondo [continuing]. Failed policy----
Mr. Grayson [continuing]. My question?
Ms. Iriondo. I don't agree with your statement that U.S.
policy has failed.
Mr. Grayson. No, that wasn't my statement. My question was
would you agree with me that it failed to bring freedom and
democracy to Cuba?
Ms. Iriondo. Well, but it has helped the Cuban people
within their possibilities. The opposition movement is growing.
The opposition movement is going forward. And I think that, you
know, you have to analyze that. I don't think it is the time to
eliminate the sanctions, to normalize relations without
conditioning that, without conditioning that----
Mr. Grayson. Ms. Iriondo, why won't you answer my question?
Ms. Iriondo. Let me answer your question.
Mr. Grayson. Please do.
Ms. Iriondo. If----
Mr. Grayson. Time is limited.
Ms. Iriondo [continuing]. Condition your rapprochement with
the regime to respect for human rights and fundamental
liberties, the policy fails because it has given unilateral
concessions without asking or receiving anything in return.
Mr. Grayson. Ms. Iriondo, I am going to ask you one more
time, and I am hoping that you will answer my question. Is it
fair to say that the previous policy failed to bring democracy
and freedom to Cuba? Yes or no? Is that fair to say?
Ms. Iriondo. I don't think it is fair to say that. It has--
--
Mr. Grayson. So you think that the previous policy did
bring democracy and freedom----
Ms. Iriondo. No.
Mr. Grayson [continuing]. To Cuba, we just haven't----
Ms. Iriondo. No. No.
Mr. Grayson [continuing]. Noticed it?
Ms. Iriondo. But the previous policy was a policy of
solidarity with the Cuban people. The Cuban people, the----
Mr. Grayson. All right.
Ms. Iriondo [continuing]. Pro-democracy movement at this
time feels abandoned----
Mr. Grayson. I really wish you----
Ms. Iriondo [continuing]. Abandoned by the----
Mr. Grayson [continuing]. Would answer my question but I am
going to give----
Ms. Iriondo [continuing]. Obama administration----
Mr. Grayson [continuing]. The reverend a chance to answer
the question.
Ms. Iriondo. No, you want me to answer----
Mr. Grayson. Is it----
Ms. Iriondo [continuing]. Your question----
Mr. Grayson. No. No, I am going to have to move on. I
begged you to answer my question and you refused to do so.
Ms. Iriondo. No.
Mr. Grayson. Reverend, let me ask you, and please feel free
to translate this, is it fair to say that the previous policy
failed to bring democracy and freedom to Cuba? Go ahead.
Rev. Lleonart Barroso. It is true that it did not bring it
about, but I coincide in the sense that it was taking side with
suffering people. On the other side, many other nations that
through a life term have negotiated with Cuba, that in other
words were applying the current U.S. policy, they did not give
the Cuban people--for the most part, I do believe that it is
our duty, not any other country, to recover democracy.
By applying one or the other method, you are not the ones
who have to bring about democracy for us. But the least that we
expect and hope for within Cuba is freedom, liberty. For human
rights to be taken into consideration, and that this always
conditions any treatment, a treaty or conversation with such a
regime which is versatile and that they do not want to talk to
their own people.
Mr. Grayson. All right. Reverend, thank you very much. I
would like to ask a question based upon Mr. Rodiles' testimony.
You point out and the chairman also pointed out that there are
different paths out of communism. One path is the path that we
saw in the Czech Republic and Hungary, countries like that
where a country adopts not only capitalism but also democracy
and freedom and basic U.S. and Western principles. Another
path, which was also alluded to, is the Chinese path or the
Vietnamese path in which only capitalism is adopted and there
is no genuine freedom for individuals in these societies or a
functioning democracy where they choose their own leaders.
Which path do you think, Mr. Rodiles, Cuba is likely to
follow? And what will determine which path Cuba follows?
Mr. Rodiles. Well, I need to define when you say Cuba, the
Cuban regime, and the Cuban people. For sure, the Cuban people
want democracy and rule of law. And you can see that with the
Cubans that arrived here to Miami, to Florida, to the United
States. Immediately, they are integrated in the society. They
are working. They are producing.
What the Cuban regime wants is a dynasty. They want to
control the whole country, but the really critical point here
is not only with Cuba because, as you can see, that kind of
philosophy, that kind of point of view is spreading in Latin
America. And you see what is happening in Venezuela. You see
what is happening in other countries.
My point here is that it could be really dangerous to
accept the kind of authoritarian regimes with free market
measures as a legitimate system. And this is going to bring a
really bad consequence not only for Cubans, not only for Miami
and south Florida, but also for the whole region because you
are accepting something that is not moral.
You are accepting that the regime that has been killing
people, violating their human rights is a legitimate system. I
think this is a really bad signal for all the region and also
for the rest of the world.
Mr. Grayson. All right. And, Reverend, I understand that
the focus of your testimony was religious and this is not
exactly a religious question, but I would like to hear your
answer as well.
If in fact countries that leave communism can evolve in
different directions, one direction toward a complete rejection
of that kind of system and adoption not just of capitalism but
also freedom, democracy, and so on, and human rights versus
other countries that leave communism and adopt only capitalism,
which one of those two models do you think Cuba is likely to
evolve toward, and what will determine which one it evolves
toward if you may answer that question.
Rev. Lleonart Barroso. Yes, absolutely. I am quite
concerned with the intimate relationship with the regime of
Putin. And I even have come to think that the U.S. policy--I
mean the change in policy is trying to move ahead to the
presence of Putin in the Western Hemisphere. But I must say
that they are not going to impede it.
They have copied and they will copy Putin's model. They
will try to keep power by violating the rights of the Cuban
people. It is a kind of a Putinism more valuable than even
somewhere else. They continue to be the same. They have
violated the rights for decades, and I even--on occasions I
compare it to North Korea in the sense that North Korea might
do whatever they do without hiding things. They just decree
just to shoot, and they just shoot.
Currently, there is a moratorium in Cuba to the death
penalty ever since 2003. Even though I am convinced on
occasions they have made the judicial executions, I am quite
convinced that they executed Mr. Oswaldo Paya Sardinas and
Laura Pollan Toledo, the leader of the Ladies in White.
And I have also been witness to people near my community. I
am a witness in a particular case of a gentleman, Mr. Soto
Garcia, that I affirm that he was assassinated because of a
beating that he received in May 2012. Several editorials from
the government try to clean the image saying that they had
nothing to do with that. I spoke with him before he passed
away. He told me what they did to him and has accused that
regime of doing so.
In concrete, I do not believe that they will democratize
the country. They are intimate friends with North Korea,
friends with China, Putin. And I am even believing that they
are present in Syria at this point, more dangerous than what we
can imagine not only for the people itself but for the Western
Hemisphere and the U.S.
If Obama thought that on December 17 giving a change in
policy it was going to defeat Putin and take Cuba after the
wrestling is wrong. And Raul Castro are laughing at the U.S. at
this point. I am truly sorry to say that.
Mr. Grayson. Thank you, Reverend. Thank you, Mr.
Translator. And thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Duncan. I thank the ranking member and then I will turn
to Mr. DeSantis. And I am going to need to step away. When you
finish, I am going to give you the power to recognize Mr.
Curbelo.
Mr. DeSantis [presiding]. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Iriondo, bravo. I agreed with everything you said. I
think you are right on. And, you know, this new policy is
really a boon to the regime because it is a failed regime. They
are insolvent. They need credit. They need money. This really
is going to allow them to solidify themselves in power. So the
question we have to ask is what is America getting in return
for this? You mentioned the Brothers to the Rescue. Has there
been any restitution or apology from the Cuban regime for those
murders?
Ms. Iriondo. Not from the Cuban regime, no.
Mr. DeSantis. No, of course not.
Ms. Iriondo. And the perpetrators have not been incited
either.
Mr. DeSantis. Right. Joanne Chesimard, you mentioned her.
She is on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted Terrorists list, killed a
cop in New Jersey, flees justice, and she is given safe haven
in Cuba. Has there been any commitment to extradite her to the
United States so she can face justice?
Ms. Iriondo. No. Although the FBI offers $1 million for her
return----
Mr. DeSantis. And so----
Ms. Iriondo [continuing]. Even though she is in Cuba.
Mr. DeSantis. And so if you are harboring a terrorist, what
is the evidence to then remove the regime from the list of
terrorist-sponsoring country? Has there been any change in
behavior that would warrant their removal from the list?
Ms. Iriondo. Nothing at all. I think it was a convenient
accomodation because of the fact that the Obama administration
is set on this new Cuba policy. That, in my opinion, is not
helping the Cuban people, but it is empowering the regime to
stay in power and providing the necessary mechanisms to get the
regime the sufficient resources they need at the time when the
Venezuela monies are not coming as they used to come. So it is
a crucial time in Cuba's history, and this crucial time that we
are lending the lifesaving line to the Castro regime.
The change in the policy was announced almost a year ago.
You know how many Cubans have escaped to the United States in
the last year? Forty-three thousand Cubans.
Mr. DeSantis. Wow.
Ms. Iriondo. Does that tell you that things are better in
Cuba?
Mr. DeSantis. No. And I think you are right. I mean this
was a critical time where this regime really did need a
lifeline. And the question is people always say, oh, this
policy didn't work, you guys were doing all this stuff. So the
question is, when you are changing a policy, are you making it
easier for the Cuban people to leverage a democratic
transition, or are you solidifying the Castro brothers in power
and allowing the dictatorship to continue even after they
perish? And I would say this policy is setting up the Castro
brothers so that their regime continues far into the future. Do
you agree with that?
Ms. Iriondo. I agree with that. And do you abandon a just
policy for the sake of empowering a regime at a crucial moment
when, you know, the regime and the internal opposition are
struggling and increasing in numbers. You don't do that. And
that is exactly what has happened and that is why we believe
that the new Cuba policy is wrong, and it doesn't do anything
for the Cuban people.
Mr. DeSantis. You know, people will say, oh, this embargo,
it hasn't overthrown the Castro regime. The problem is that was
not the intent of the embargo. The embargo was instituted in
response to all the property seizures that the regime had done.
And so Chairman Duncan has done good work in this Congress
of actually bringing people in to testify to Congress, both
Cuban exiles and people who were American citizens in Cuba at
the time who had their property seized. And has there been any
commitment to pay any of the certified claims, or any
restitution or apology for seizing that private property?
Ms. Iriondo. Not only that, when you see General Raul
Castro, dictator Raul Castro, he is defiant as ever. He is
defiant as ever. And his regime has been an enemy of the United
States, responsible for anti-Americanism in the Western
Hemisphere. And he continues to do so. He demands and Obama
gives. That is the way it is.
Mr. DeSantis. And it is frustrating because, you know, we
really are dedicated to the idea of the rule of law, and so we
are saying, oh, you know, let's throw an economic lifeline. You
are going to have commerce so you may actually be having goods
pulling up to a port that was seized from somebody. You will
have people staying in Cuba who will be sitting in a hotel that
was seized from somebody else. How is that advancing the rule
of law if we are legitimizing a government simply taking
somebody else's property outside the constraints of a legal and
democratic system?
So I am really frustrated when I hear some businesspeople
say, oh, we just go to do this. Now, how would you feel if
somebody seized your property and then started making money off
of it?
And you brought up a good point. There has been trade with
Cuba for--I mean Europeans will go. They will vacation there.
And as I understand it, the regime, the intelligence services,
the military, they will get, you know, Euros and then they pay
the Cuban people worthless Cuban pesos. So it is all going to
help this elite ruling class and really keep the rest of the
population in an enslaved state.
So we will hear a lot of times, well, look, we just got to
try something new. We have got to try something new. Anything
will be better than what we have done. What is your response to
that when people will say that to you?
Ms. Iriondo. Well, I remember when Batista was in power and
in Cuba everybody said anything is better than Batista. And
look what we got. So anything is not better. Only the best is
better. And that is an example of all this.
I wanted also to say something that illustrates the problem
of the concessions we are seeing that are not warranted or
merited. If I may because I was going to say it in my testimony
but I had not enough time to do so, there is no better example
of this problem than the upgrading of the rating in the human
Trafficking in Persons report published by the Department of
State a few weeks ago. The report deals with human trafficking,
slave labor, prostitution, and child sexual abuse, and sex
tourism with minors. Ironically, while more tourists are going
to Cuba, the U.S. Government reports that there is less sexual
tourism, including child sexual abuse by foreigners.
This is a crime that Congressman Christopher Smith, member
of this subcommittee, has fought against for many years.
According to a Reuters article, administration sources that
wish not to be identified complained that Cuba, Malaysia,
Russia, and others got a better ranking than they deserved and
that the final ranking came about as a result of improper
pressure on the office that prepared the report by higher State
Department officials.
These are the kind of unilateral concessions, list of
terrorist states, this, the human trafficking that are not
warranted, totally unwarranted. You were talking about other
countries doing business in Cuba for many years. Has anything
changed? A lot of tourists from many countries for many years.
Have visitors brought about freedom and democracy in Cuba? Why
do we think it is wrong? Why do we think that Cuba policy was
one of solidarity with the Cuban people? Very simple. Because
it is the right thing to do. Is it the just thing to do. Cubans
deserve no more, but certainly, they deserve no less.
Mr. DeSantis. Well, thank you. And I think that, you know,
as you look to--I am open to always reevaluating any policies
we have, but here is the deal. With policy toward Cuba, it has
got to be focused, to me, on two things: standing with the
Cuban people against the Castro regime and then what is in the
best interest of the United States. And to me they are one in
the same in this example because the regime in Cuba, not only
have they brutalized their own people, they represent a
significant security threat to our country.
Now, you know, we say the cold war is over, all this. You
know, we hear reports of more Russian influence, we hear
other--the fact of the matter is this is a regime that
associates with some of the worst regimes throughout the world.
And why would we want a regime like that, you know, 90 miles
from our shore.
So my hope is that this policy has been in place now for
almost a year. I think the results have really spoken for
themselves. And this idea that if you just make concessions to
the Castro brothers, we are going to be able to turn the page
has been proven wrong, and I think that our policy needs to be
one of solidarity with the Cuban people who are fighting for
freedom. And so I thank all the witnesses.
I am going to now yield to my good friend from south
Florida and obviously a great defender of human rights around
the world, Mr. Curbelo.
Mr. Curbelo. Thank you very much, Congressman DeSantis.
Mr. Rodiles, thank you for your heroic opposition to the
Castro government, and thank you for being here today.
For decades, almost every country in the world has had full
diplomatic and commercial relationships with the Castro regime.
You have been in Cuba. How has that policy of full engagement,
unconditional engagement, how has that policy benefitted the
Cuban people?
Mr. Rodiles. Well----
Mr. Curbelo. Or has it?
Mr. Rodiles. Yes, I want to mention something related with
this change of policy. Before this day last December, the
European Union that now is involved in a kind of agreement with
the Cuban Government was pushing to the regime to ratify the
U.N. Covenants, the U.N. Covenants related with human rights.
And also they were pushing for the implementation of the
international worker organization to implement those norms. But
what happened after December that those points disappear from
the agenda. And then what happened was this new policy is
sending a really wrong message.
Mr. Curbelo. Yes. I agree. But my question to you is for
many decades, many countries, almost all of them have had full
diplomatic and commercial relations with the Cuban regime, with
the Castro regime. Did that policy of engagement make the Cuban
people more free? Did it improve the human rights situation----
Mr. Rodiles. For sure, no.
Mr. Curbelo [continuing]. In Cuba?
Mr. Rodiles. Is it clear that no.
Mr. Curbelo. Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Rodiles. Let me say something quickly.
Mr. Curbelo. Briefly, please.
Mr. Rodiles. Yes. Sometimes people, the argument is that we
need to change the policy, and that is true. We can change the
policy but we cannot make the policy worse. We need to improve
what we are doing.
Mr. Curbelo. I agree with that. Ms. Iriondo, thank you for
being here today. The Cuban regime during the Soviet subsidies
was cash-rich. It had many resources. What was it doing with
these resources? What was the Cuban military doing? What does
the Cuban Government do when it has a lot of access to cash?
Ms. Iriondo. Strengthen its repressive apparatus and
unleash a wave of repression against everyone that dares or
intends to speak out or to do something against the state.
Mr. Curbelo. And what was it doing around the world during
those times when they had so much access to cash----
Ms. Iriondo. They were----
Mr. Curbelo [continuing]. And when they could invest
heavily in their military? What were they doing?
Ms. Iriondo. They were exporting the revolution,
undermining democratic governments, assisting guerillas----
Mr. Curbelo. Were they fighting Americans----
Ms. Iriondo. They were fighting, yes.
Mr. Curbelo [continuing]. In different theaters?
Ms. Iriondo. They were fighting and they were providing
also intelligence security and security agents to a lot of
places, including Venezuela where there are more than 35,000
agents of the state security apparatus.
Mr. Curbelo. Do you think that after the fall of the Soviet
Union our sanctions policy helped debilitate the Cuban military
and limit their ability export revolution to train guerilla
forces to fight American soldiers in different theaters of war?
Ms. Iriondo. Yes, it did. Yes, it did.
Mr. Curbelo. And do you expect that the Cuban Government,
if they have access again to plentiful resources, that they
will try to become international players once again and
confront the United States throughout the world?
Ms. Iriondo. Undoubtedly. They have done it directly. They
have----
Mr. Curbelo. As a matter of fact----
Ms. Iriondo [continuing]. Done it directly.
Mr. Curbelo [continuing]. The Cuban Government, even
despite the fact that it doesn't have access to resources the
way it used to, has destroyed Venezuela in our own hemisphere?
Ms. Iriondo. Yes. When you hear dictator Raul Castro in his
statements or you hear Bruno Rodriguez, they are already doing
it. They are going and you see President Obama on one side
granting this unilateral concessions and speaking, you know,
about the rapprochement and the normalization of relations, and
you see the regime demanding things, demanding things more and
more and more everywhere they talk. So they are doing it. And
the more resources they have, the more they are going to try to
undermine because that is the nature of the beast. And the
regime is not reformable.
Mr. Curbelo. Mr. Rodiles, you live in Cuba. Ms. Iriondo
mentioned earlier that since the announcement of the new
policy, 43,000 Cubans at least have escaped the island. Now,
without question, on December 17, beyond changing United States
policy toward Cuba, the Obama administration, together with the
Castro dictatorship, shared a new vision for Cuba, a new vision
for the relationship between the United States and Cuba. Do you
interpret that these at least 43,000 Cubans, many who have
risked their lives to leave the island since then, is that
their reaction to the policy change?
Mr. Rodiles. No, I think this is the real pool about what
Cuban people are thinking about the new scenario because who is
going to take that risk if they think that the future is going
to be better, if they feel optimistic? It is clear that people
don't believe that the regime is going to change anything.
Every people in Cuba is completely convinced that during the--
if these people keep in power, the reality is not going to
change. This is something that people always say in the street.
If they keep there, anything is going to change. And I think
that this situation, this exodus that we are watching right
now, this is a clear message about the criteria that people
have about this new policy.
Mr. Curbelo. I am glad you used that word exodus because in
1994 about 40,000 Cubans fled on rafts. Now, that was very
dramatic because they all fled at the same time. However, what
we are seeing now is a repeat of that 1994 phenomenon. Ms.
Iriondo. Do you believe that this is--because the Obama
administration says that their new policy is wildly popular in
Cuba and that the Cuban people are now full of hope for the
future. Now, if that is true, why would so many seek to flee
risking their lives in many cases, others taking a very
difficult journey through Mexico where they are the victims of
these human traffickers, these coyotes? Why would they be doing
this if there is this renewed sense of hope and optimism in
Cuba?
Ms. Iriondo. Because the answer is clear. There is no hope
in Cuba as long as the regime is in power. The regime has not
changed and the Cuban people do not expect the regime to
change. That is why they risk their lives. That is why we have
43,000 so far since December 17, 2014.
Mr. Curbelo. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. DeSantis. I thank the gentleman. And I would like to
thank the witnesses of our first panel for your courage and the
courage that you have shown here today. I want to invite you to
stay for the remainder of the hearing, but we will recess now
and we will consider the events in Venezuela through panel II.
And the subcommittee will recess for a couple minutes while we
set back up.
Ms. Iriondo. Mr. Chairman, can I leave with you the photos
of the Panama assault?
Mr. DeSantis. Yes, you can. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Iriondo. Thank you.
Mr. DeSantis. Thank you. And we will stand in recess.
[Recess.]
Mr. Duncan. The subcommittee will come to order. As I
mentioned, the panel I witnesses--before I recognize you on
panel II to provide your testimony, know that each of you will
have 5 minutes to present your oral statement. And please try
to keep within 5 minutes. We are on a tight time crunch.
Before we get started, I am going to recognize Mr. DeSantis
for an opening statement. He has an airplane to catch.
Mr. DeSantis. Yes, I apologize. I will read your
statements. I was not able to get a later flight so I am going
to have to scooch out to the airport. But I just wanted to say
that I, as well as the chairman of this committee, stands
forthrightly behind the people of Venezuela who are being
oppressed by the Maduro government, a thuggish socialist
dictatorship. And we need change in Venezuela, and we need a
policy that recognizes the interests of the Venezuelan people
to live in a country that recognizes their God-given human
rights. And we are committed on this committee to going in that
direction, and I wish everybody the best.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Duncan. And I want to thank the gentleman for taking
time to be here today and for his great questioning.
So the witnesses will testify. We do have copies of your
bios in our material that is provided to all the members, so I
will not read those. We are going to move directly into your
testimony. And other members of the committee, after press
events, will make it back to the dias.
But, Ms. Adriana Lopez Vermut, you are recognized for 5
minutes. Pull that microphone close. Thanks.
STATEMENT OF MS. ADRIANA LOPEZ VERMUT, SISTER OF LEOPOLDO LOPEZ
Ms. Lopez Vermut. Thank you. Honorable Chairman Jeff Duncan
and members of the Subcommittee on the Western
Hemisphere Affairs deg., thank you for inviting me to
testify today and taking the time to hear my family's story.
My name is Adriana Lopez Vermut, and I am the younger
sister of Leopoldo Lopez, leader of the opposition party
Voluntad Popular and former mayor of the Chacao municipality of
Caracas.
Since February 19, 2014, Leopoldo has been wrongly
imprisoned in a military prison in Venezuela. His arrest has
been declared arbitrary by the United Nations Working Group on
Arbitrary Detention, which has called on Venezuela to
immediately free him.
The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights,
United Nations Committee Against Torture, the Secretary General
of the Organization of American States, President Barack Obama,
Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos, and more than 40 other
current and past Latin American heads of states have echoed
this call for his release. Amnesty International has labeled
Leopoldo a prisoner of conscience.
Leopoldo is in jail because of his ideas. At a series of
peaceful protests in February 2014, he gave speeches calling
for nonviolent, democratic change in Venezuela in accordance
with its Constitution. Despite the repeated emphasis on urging
a transition through nonviolence and adherence to the
Constitution, the government issued a warrant for his arrest
that day claiming for his goal to overthrow the government
through violent means.
After more than 1\1/2\ years in jail, on September 10,
2015, Leopoldo was convicted of all charges and sentenced to 13
years and 9 months in prison. On that terrible day, Leopoldo
responded to this terrible conviction by saying, ``Today, they
condemn me. But it is the regime that is condemned, for the
people of Venezuela will set me free.''
While Leopoldo is obviously innocent, his conviction was
not a surprise. From the moment that a warrant for his arrest
was issued, we knew that the latest target of a ruthless
authoritarian regime that seeks to silence dissent.
Leopoldo's trial was a farce. Six hundred hours of
prosecution presenting their case and over 100 witnesses with
no witnesses or evidence allowed from the defense.
While it was not a surprise, it was gratifying to see the
defection of the lead prosecutor in the case against Leopoldo,
Franklin Nieves, who came to the United States last week and
openly admitted that he was pressured by the Venezuelan
Government to bring false accusations against Leopoldo.
Leopoldo's imprisonment has not been easy. He has spent
half of his time in solitary confinement and at the whim of the
prison guards. He has been subject to countless violent
searches of his cell and is routinely denied visitors as
punishment for his actions and those of his wife, Lilian
Tintori, who has undertaken intense advocacy for his release.
At one low point, prison guards threw urine and feces into
Leopoldo's cell and then cut off the water to clean it.
Currently, Leopoldo is the only prisoner in a building that
consists of 30 cells. He has a 7-by-10-foot cell that has
nothing more than a bed, a toilet, and a shelf for a change of
clothes. He is not allowed writing materials and is only
permitted to read the Bible. And there is no electricity or
light when it is dark outside. Each month, he is moved to a
different dirty cell to maximize his discomfort.
The government's persecution of Leopoldo has affected my
entire family. Government officials regularly attack our family
on national TV. President Maduro has accused Lilian of treason,
which carries a 30-year prison sentence in Venezuela. My father
was forced to go into exile after a newspaper on whose board he
sits was accused of criminal libel against speaker of the
National Assembly Diosdado Cabello. Last month, government-
sponsored thugs tried kidnapping our older sister, Diana.
Fortunately, they failed. We routinely fear for Leopoldo's
life, and we fear for our own life as well.
No one in the world should doubt why Leopoldo is in prison.
Maduro is afraid of him. Even as Leopoldo sits in prison, the
independent polling firm Datanalisis showed that in a
Presidential matchup between Maduro and Leopoldo is up by 32
percentage points.
Furthermore, Maduro has not delivered on his promises. His
actions have delivered difficulties that Venezuelans are
experiencing today. We have the second-highest murder rate in
the world, 25,000 deaths in 2014 in a country where 97 percent
of our crimes go unpunished.
The desperate plight of our country, which has included an
annual inflation rate of 159 percent and our GDP is expected to
shrink by 10 percent in 2015 alone, has led to drastic
shortages of food and medical supplies.
My country is on the edge of a humanitarian crisis that
could have devastating effects on the regional stability. The
repressive regime has created a beleaguered nation that is
struggling. Thus far, the United States has taken a strong
stand advocating for the rights of the Venezuelan people, but
there is more that the government can do. We need Latin
American leaders to move from rhetoric to action. The U.S. can
help push the situation of Venezuela to be discussed in
multilateral fora, such as the OAS, the U.N. Human Rights
Council, and the U.N. General Assembly.
Additionally, on December 6, Venezuela will have
parliamentary elections, and in order for these to be
significant, the people of Venezuela must have faith in the
process. Currently, the Venezuelan Government has rejected
offers of international electoral observation from the OAS and
the United Nations. The United States must continue to pressure
the government to accept observation from qualified observers.
I am proud that Leopoldo's case has become a rallying cry
around the world and the lens through which countless of
millions of people can see the authoritarian regime in
Venezuela. Through Leopoldo's case, the world has come to know
the suffering of the Venezuelan people. We must have hope that
Venezuelans will persevere against this severe repression and
that the world will rally with us.
Fuerza y fe. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Lopez Vermut follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
----------
Mr. Duncan. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. And
your brother is in our thoughts and prayers. And I am too glad
he has become a rallying cry. So thank you for being here
today.
I now recognize the next panelist, Mr. Vecchio Demari.
STATEMENT OF MR. CARLOS VECCHIO DEMARI, LAWYER, NATIONAL
POLITICAL COORDINATOR, VOLUNTAD POPULAR
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman Duncan and
the other members of this committee. I want to thank you for
this opportunity to give us our testimony regarding the
violation of human rights in Venezuela. I am particularly--the
election that we are going to have this December.
This is the first time that I have the opportunity to
testify before a formal and independent institution so this
gives you an example of how difficult the situation is in
Venezuela and the lack of separation of power.
I want to divide my testimony in three parts. The one, it
will be related to the protest in 2014; the second one will be
related to the election day with the election process; and the
last one, sound recommendation that I want to give you for your
consideration.
So let me talk about the 2014 protest. I remember that I
had that discussion with Leopoldo Lopez and the students who
are related to the student movement. At that time we decided
that we needed to urge the Venezuelan people to protest
peacefully, to defend our rights according to our Constitution
and against the Maduro regime due to the economic, social, and
political problems that we are facing right now and we face at
that time. They do not clearly reflect the crisis that we are
facing. This year is even worse than last year, and it will be
critical next year.
So Maduro regime reacted against us because we were
exercising constitutional rights. We had been persecuted
because of our ideas, our democratic speeches. This has been
our crime according to the government, according to Maduro.
That is why Maduro decided to put in jail Leopoldo. Five days
later they issue an order of arrest against me for the same
reason, for the same crimes, and again, without evidence
because we were exercising our constitutional rights.
I remember that in February 17 in 2014 I had to receive
three violent attempts of arrest for the military force from
the government. They couldn't capture at that time. Then I
decided to spend 108 days in hiding in Venezuela in order to
continue our, you know, political activities in a very
difficult situation receiving many type of threats during those
days.
After those days, after an internal discussion with my
political party, we decided that I needed to play an
international role, that I had to leave Venezuela to be a voice
in the international arena. Let me tell you this. This has been
the most difficult decision that I have ever taken. I had to
leave my country because of political reasons for the way that
I am thinking political.
That is not the Venezuela that we deserve. That is not the
system that we deserve for the region. And that moment when I
was leaving my country, it left a mark in my soul saying this
moment had to give more faith, more strength in order to
continue our struggle. And that is what I have been doing
outside of Venezuela.
Recently, as Adriana said, two of the lead prosecutors left
Venezuela and said that he received order directly from Maduro
to put Leopoldo in jail and also against me. That was a clear
testimony, which confirmed what we have been saying national
and international, that there is a generalized and a systematic
state policy from the government to intimidate and to persecute
the Venezuelan people who are thinking different from the
government. And that persecution, that intimidation is still
ongoing in Venezuela. So the judicial system is used by the
government to persecute the opposition that this is in
Venezuela.
So this is the aspect regarding our participation in the
protest and how I have been affected, how they are violating my
human rights during those days.
The second part of my testimony is regarding the upcoming
election in December 6. To illustrate to you what we are facing
for this process, let's do a short exercise of imagination.
Let's start with this. Imagine that Obama abusing of his power
prohibit 10 of the most popular Republican candidate to
participate in the primary process they are going right now in
process. So imagine that he can prohibit 10 of the 15
candidates in the primary process of the Republican Party.
Imagine that Obama also can prohibit those candidates to do
campaign in those swing States but not to the other candidates.
Imagine that Obama prohibits CNN and Fox to broadcast the
Republican debates.
So this exercise of imagination is a reality in Venezuela.
Maduro has done all what I just said. They have prohibited 10
opposition leaders to participate as a candidate in this
election. I am one of them. They have controlled the media so
it is quite difficult for the opposition to communicate our
message to the rest of the people. They have declared a state
of emergency in certain border states so it is quite difficult
to campaign freely. They have militarized those states so it is
quite complicated to do campaign in that condition.
So let me tell you a little bit more about my case. I
presented my candidacy before the electoral branch and that
candidacy was eliminated. I was competing against Diosdado
Cabello, who is the current president of the Congress in
Venezuela. Fifteen days later I read in the news that somebody
challenged my candidacy. They did not defy me and they didn't
the opportunity to me to express my arguments and they decided
to cancel my candidacy under the absurd and unconstitutional
argument that my candidacy was an affront of law because my
intention was not to represent my estate but rather to gain
parliamentarian immunity in order to avoid my order of arrest.
That is something that we couldn't understand. And as I
said, that is a violation of my human rights because in order
to restrict a political right in Venezuela, you have to issue a
final and enforceable sentence.
Finally----
Mr. Duncan. I am going to need you to wrap up.
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Yes. Finally, my recommendation to you,
I want to highlight three points. One, you need to work in our
view the U.S. Government with the government--with the Congress
in Latin America in order to protect and to support human
rights in Venezuela and to defend the principle of democracy.
That is one recommendation that we think it could work to help
us in order to defend democracy in Venezuela.
Second one, we need qualified observers for the next coming
election. You need to discuss with the region as well how can
we have this independent observer for our election.
And finally, finally, I think you can promote legislation
in order to facilitate political asylum or the immigration
process for Venezuelans.
Thank you very much.
[Mr. Vecchio Demari did not submit a prepared statement
until after the start of the hearing. It appears in the
appendix.]
Mr. Duncan. Thank you.
Ms. Pacheco for 5 minutes, please.
STATEMENT OF MS. IBEYISE PACHECO, VENEZUELAN JOURNALIST AND
WRITER
[The following statement and answers were delivered through
an interpreter.]
Ms. Pacheco. Good afternoon.
Kluivert Roa supplicated onto the police officer, please do
not kill me. Don't kill me. The official shot him at a short
distance in the head with a 12 caliber gunshot with plastic
bullets. This caused a deadly injury in his cranium. Kluivert
was 14 years old. According to witnesses, Kluivert was just
coming out of class and he just came across a rally of
youngsters. It was in San Cristobal, a city at the southwestern
part of Venezuela.
Kluivert, as a good Samaritan, he stopped to assist another
student who had been injured. He was taken by surprise by one
representative of the police forces of the Bolivarian regime of
Maduro who kill him while being on his knees. It took place on
February 24, 2015.
Last year, 24,980 citizens were killed as victims of the
violence. We are the second country with homicide in the world.
Besides that, in Venezuela there are 74 political prisoners.
More than 2,000 people have outstanding judicial proceedings.
And there are 3,775 detentions had been carried out only on
account of rallies during last year.
With violations to the right of defense, to the due
process, with torture and cruel treatment, with electrical
shocks and sex violations or rape, threats of violations and
rapes, suffocation with plastic bags, multiple fractures and
other injuries.
Last June 17, Beatriz Lara, a reporter with the Aragueno
newspaper, she was placed in handcuffs to an electricity pole
for a couple of hours in the middle of news coverage. This
bothered police officials in the middle of the country. The
female reporter, along with a cameraman, they were subjected in
the street to beating and insults, along with kickings. Not
being enough in such a situation and mistreatment, the female
reporter was ripped off of her clothing arguing that she had a
weapon in her intimate parts. To prove that that was not the
case, she had to jump and down while squatting as if she was a
kangaroo.
These facts, along with many other facts that I know, the
representative could have heard are unknown by the Venezuelan
people, and they are unknown, they are not aware of those
because of the force, control exerted by the Maduro regime.
This regime, which is in charge of silencing the truth and
create terror and misrepresent the facts in their best
interest. The justice or judicial system in Venezuela, if you
can call it like that, utilized a sensor to chastise the
exercise of journalism to threaten----
Mr. Duncan. Ms. Pacheco, I am going to ask you to start
wrapping up. Hit some of the highlights and wrap up just in the
sense of time. Thank you.
Ms. Pacheco. Yes. I am summarizing it because I just heard
the Cuban attendees to take 10 up until 12 minutes. Mine is not
going to go beyond 7 minutes. That is for certain.
The judicial Venezuelan system said journalists and owners
of media, local, domestic and foreigners are persecuted by the
tribunals and that are managed by the monarchy of the regime
exposing us to the public damage by bands of criminals.
In other cases, the media has been put to their knees by
other criminals or they have been acquired by branches of the
government to create them into a mechanism--apparatuses of
their propaganda. The little window, even though it is vital
that entails the social media, it is weakened by detentions of
traitors for detentions for months without any help. It is very
simple. The plan is to isolate the country.
But also the information sources are persecuted. The doctor
that files a complaint goes to jail. Same destiny for his or
her own area, his own educator, a union member or a business
person, any user that complains about discourtesy, and even
about a politician that you already listened to his testimony.
Great danger risks them who protects the one in need or who
protects the human rights. But even two attempts of suicide by
Marcelo Crovato and months of prison move his killers to piety.
This is not a new situation. I personally have been
persecuted by the regime ever since the year 2001. I have
suffered 20 trials, grave and serious investigations and public
accusations. I was incarcerated in 2005. I have gone to
international organizations and not even now when I live in the
U.S. have the attacks ceased.
I want to call on the attention of the particular case of
Diosdado Cabello who has been investigated upon here by the
authorities of this country on the alleged basis of narco
trafficking.
Mr. Duncan. I really need you to wrap up.
Ms. Pacheco. Okay. Okay. I am going to wrap up.
Cabello uses the Venezuelan official media to submit all
the Venezuelans to the public criticism and all of the
mechanisms of the state.
Fear cannot stop us if we are all united and raise our
voices against the regime.
Finally, I ask myself, how would Venezuela be today if
democratic governments had listened to the alarms that have
been beeping since more than a decade ago. The Maduro regime
fails to comply with the laws and human rights. Is it not the
case that any institution or international institution or
government is an accomplice who knowingly in the face of this
case keeps silent or does not care about acting? Is it not the
case that international agreements are executed to accomplished
and fulfilled and to make them be fulfilled?
Just a few days ago, posting of a picture of a candidate
for the police force of the Maduro regime started to go around
in the social media. Face of an 18-year-old girl laughing with
the grenade in her hands, the same as is done by the criminal
groups that assassinate people in my country.
With all due respect, I tell you I refuse for that to
become our future. I did not want that either to extend on to
this continent because I confess to you we feel helpless.
Anyway, thank you for listening to me today. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Pacheco follows:]
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Mr. Duncan. Thank you for that. We lost our other Members
of Congress just because of their schedules, so I will
recognize myself for as much time as I need to ask all the
questions that I want to ask.
Do you think--and this is to all the panelists. Do you
think the elections will be truly free and fair?
Ms. Lopez Vermut. I am not a politician but I have a
brother who is a politician who should have the right to run in
fair elections, and he is in prison, alongside other
politicians who are being banned to run. So, no, there cannot
be fair elections if the opponents are not allowed to run.
Mr. Vecchio Demari. No. Absolutely no. As I said, the
government of Maduro has taken several actions in order
precisely to avoid to have a fair and a transparent election.
That is why we are asking for an international independent
observer in order to watch the electoral process. We don't
trust institutions in Venezuela. We trust in the people and we
need a massive participation. We need an organization which is
capable to overcome those obstacles that the government is
putting in place in order to avoid defeat.
All polls show that the opposition will win by a large
margin. That is why Maduro regime is taking this type of
actions, to avoid that, and that is why we are coming to the
international community to support what we see right now in our
society, a change----
Mr. Duncan. Right.
Mr. Vecchio Demari [continuing]. Which is a reversible
change.
Mr. Duncan. Ms. Pacheco?
Ms. Pacheco. A fundamental aspect during these elections
and this is going to happen is the darkest moment of the
exercise of journalism in the country. There is no
communication or media that can communicate the truth.
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Usually, where aggressions are
committed in the educational center----
Mr. Duncan. Senor Vecchio--what role does the U.S. and
international community play in this? With regard to the
elections, how can we assure that they are free and fair? I
mean what more can we do?
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Well, I would say you should get in
contact with Latin American countries in order to work in the
multilateral organizations such as OAS and even UNASUR in order
to build independent and a technical observer to play a role in
the Venezuelan election. We are a month for that election. I
think it is going to be quite difficult but I think what you
need to do an effort, working especially with Latin American
countries because this will affect not only the Venezuelans but
also it could bring an instability to the region if we do not
have a fair and a transparent election in which the Venezuelans
could trust. So it is a very critical moment. So I would say
that you should work with the rest of the Latin American
countries and with the multilateral organizations.
Mr. Duncan. December 6 is coming awfully quickly. I want to
ask about Leopoldo. What impact has his arrest and his
detention and this recent sentencing had on your family and his
wife and children?
Ms. Lopez Vermut. You must imagine it is a very hard
situation. We have always been supporters of Leopoldo's career
path. He has been a politician for over 10 years. This has
affected my nieces, my nephew. They are growing up and they
know what it is to visit a jail, what it is to have somebody
that drives you to school be kidnapped and beaten on your
behalf. They have seen people killed protecting their father.
Psychologically, I think that will have a lasting impact on
them.
My father is an exile. He cannot go back to Venezuela.
There is a warrant for his arrest. My sister was almost
kidnapped. My sister-in-law and my mother are in Venezuela.
They continue to support Leopoldo and they bravely do so.
We are being persecuted. We have been persecuted for
multiple years, but it has affected the family dynamic. We
don't know for how long. Hopefully, it will not be for 14
years.
Mr. Duncan. Is there any chance that his sentence would be
shortened?
Ms. Lopez Vermut. We definitely hope so. I----
Mr. Duncan. I mean is there precedence for that in the
past?
Ms. Lopez Vermut. I don't think so.
Mr. Duncan. Yes.
Ms. Lopez Vermut. I don't think so.
Mr. Duncan. That is----
Ms. Lopez Vermut. Unless he is given house arrest, which is
a possibility. One of the things that we really would like for
the United States is to do is to allow for the International
Red Cross to be accepted in Venezuela to visit the prisons.
Leopoldo's mental health is of great concern in that we want to
make sure that he gets access to books, that he gets access to
regular light, that he gets access to exercise, to written
material, to visitors. He is not a terrorist. He should be
allowed his human and prisoner rights to be observed, and they
are not.
And the government does not allow any observers of the
conditions of prisoners in Venezuela to be assessed. That is
another point of support that we can get from the United
States.
Mr. Duncan. Wow. I am going to ask all panelists, we talked
in the first panel about access to freedom of speech, access to
a free and open press, the dissemination of information, access
to the Internet, and so how do people stay informed in
Venezuela? Is online media restricted? Is there social media
available? Help educate us about how people stay informed in
Venezuela. And that is to everyone, but I will start with Ms.
Pacheco.
Ms. Pacheco. Yes, the system is very marginal, very limited
and usually very distorted because the government has purchased
the majority of the media. So they have made it into
apparatuses for their propaganda. And social network, which is
the small network, which is not as important, is important.
Their users are subject of persecution. They have also been
persecuted. They have been detained. They have been hacked.
Mr. Duncan. Mr. Vecchio, you are in exile so to speak. Are
you able to communicate back into your country?
Mr. Vecchio Demari. You know, I use the social media in
order to get information from Venezuela. I don't trust in the
media. In the media in Venezuela it is quite difficult to get
information from them, and if I want to communicate with them
through, for example, Skype or even call them, I have to be
aware that the government is going to record that conversation.
So it is quite difficult to keep that communication clear and
transparent. So it is not that easy. It is not that easy.
Mr. Duncan. Does the government block some of the emails or
social media, tweets----
Mr. Vecchio Demari. They capture that and they will use it
against you.
Mr. Duncan. They capture it and use it against them but----
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Yes, illegally.
Mr. Duncan [continuing]. They don't block it?
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Illegally.
Mr. Duncan. Yes.
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Yes. So the point is that I get
information from the media, for example, Twitter or certain web
pages.
Mr. Duncan. Yes.
Ms. Pacheco. I want to point out that a state channel
Diosdado Cabello, the person of the National Assembly,
publishes personal information, altered, manipulated
information that discloses certain limited communication
between militants and opposition.
Mr. Duncan. I think is important for the American people to
hear. We take this for granted. I said it earlier, our access.
Leopoldo, will he have any chance to have access to the
press or to the Internet or any way to further his
understanding of what is going on in the outside world?
Ms. Lopez Vermut. No, he has limited access, arbitrary that
is, to the TV. But again, the TV channels available are
government-run so it is partial.
One thing that I think for the American people to
understand that information is known, I think that there is a
lot of controversy as to how much governments listen in to
citizens. That is a big topic of conversation. What I explain
to people is most of the time, while you know that you might be
listened to, you don't fear for your life. What is going on in
a place like Venezuela is that not only are you being listened
to but that information is going to be used against you or your
family for persecution all the way up to death. It is very
different, that sense of fear for your life than just knowing
that, you know, we are being listened to. We live in a
different communication world.
Mr. Duncan. Wow. Mr. Vecchio.
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Another piece of this equation is that
you have problem to get information from the media in
Venezuela, but also you have problem to express your ideas. You
don't have channel to express your ideas. For example, Diosdado
Cabello, he has a weekly TV program. In every program he
attacks me, any time, any time so I don't have the opportunity
to respond to those attacks. So the Venezuelan people only get
the information that Diosdado gives to the people of Venezuela.
So I don't have the opportunity to express my ideas and my
opinion. So those windows are totally closed in Venezuela, you
know. And when you put this in the context of an election, that
is critical----
Mr. Duncan. Right.
Mr. Vecchio Demari [continuing]. You know what I am saying,
because I mean the electoral--the voters only will get one
information----
Mr. Duncan. Yes, one side of the story.
Mr. Vecchio Demari. One side of the story.
Mr. Duncan. Right. Right. Let me ask you this. You
mentioned in your testimony about your constitutional rights
and----
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Yes.
Mr. Duncan [continuing]. You know, when Americans hear
that, we think about our constitutional rights. But from what I
understand about Venezuela, what good is the Constitution if
the Maduro government is not following that, if you still don't
have a free judiciary? So talk a little bit more about what
that Constitution may or may not mean today, November 2015.
What is the Constitution?
Mr. Vecchio Demari. The Constitution, I mean, is very well-
written. The problem is the Maduro doesn't comply with the
Constitution. That is the deal. We have the separation of power
in the Constitution, but in the practical point of view, they
control all the powers in Venezuela. For example, in my case
the only way to limit my political rights to run for office is
through a final and enforceable criminal sentence. So that
doesn't occur in my case, and they disregard my candidacy. They
cancel my candidacy and I didn't have the opportunity even to
defend my rights, to hear--I didn't have the opportunity to
give them my arguments. So the Constitution is there, but when
you see it from the theoretical point of view, when you see the
practice, they don't comply with the letter of the
Constitution. So that is the big problem.
Mr. Duncan. So how do you change the judiciary with a
strong authoritarian government like Maduro's who ignores the
Constitution? I mean truly the judiciary is your avenue of
recourse. But if the judiciary is controlled and they ignore
the Constitution--so I guess my question is how do you see a
pathway to change?
Mr. Vecchio Demari. That is why this election is quite
important. The Supreme Court magistrates or judges are
appointed by the National Assembly. So that will be a key
element in order to have an impartial judicial branch. So that
is quite important. And then also the electoral branch is
appointed so the National Assembly----
Mr. Duncan. How many assemblymen are up for reelection?
Mr. Vecchio Demari. What?
Mr. Duncan. In the Congress, how many assemblymen----
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Five years and you can be reelected.
Mr. Duncan. Are some of them up for reelection this year?
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Yes. For example, Diosdado Cabello, I
was competing against Diosdado, and I don't have any doubt that
he gave an order to the electoral branch to cancel my
candidacy. He didn't want to run against me. So he controlled
that, that piece of the equation.
Mr. Duncan. Wow. Wow. I mean rule of law is so important.
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Yes. And I also want to point out that
the sentence against Leopoldo is not only against Leopoldo. We
have to be very careful on that. It is against any Venezuelan
who thinks different from the government.
Ms. Lopez Vermut. Well, it is important if you read
Leopoldo's sentence, the language that is used explains--sorry,
describes that Leopoldo had a machinery, Leopoldo is the
intellectual actor who was using his messaging to make--he was
the determiner using a criminal organization. So by putting in
a sentence that the political party that he runs is actually a
criminal organization, effectively, the state is criminalizing
political parties and difference of opinion.
Mr. Duncan. Ms. Pacheco, in your written statement and in
your verbal statement you said in Venezuela there are
systematic and generalized attacks against people who dare
express ideas and thoughts of disagreement or critics toward
the government. What impact do you think the December 6
elections will have on this culture of fear?
Ms. Pacheco. The thing is that the regime is betting to
violence. And this is a scary scenario because this is a
political circumstance in which they internally--and when I say
internally, they, the government--they are against each other.
They are not against each other on an ethical basis or problem
but it is so because they dispute the power. They are playing
against the power. This sentence can sound very terrible.
And the image is that of a country by which the criminal
groups want to remain in power, and of course, then they appeal
to any necessary--whatever is necessary of course out of the
law, without forgetting that the power currently has been
inherited from the government of Chavez. They are the military.
And the military are, at least it has been demonstrated by way
of the investigations, well advanced and they are compromised.
They are involved with the cartel of the narco trafficking. And
since they are going to defend their business, seeing their
power diminished, as a danger they can recourse to repression
and power that they did so already in 2014, and of which we
have Leopoldo Lopez, the symbol of injustice because of a
peaceful rally and protest.
Mr. Duncan. Wow. Okay. Last question, how are the sanctions
working that the U.S. has imposed on Venezuela? And that is to
all the panelists. Are the sanctions working? Can the U.S. do
more? What is the effect it is having in Venezuela? I will
start with Mr. Vecchio.
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Yes. I would say yes, they have been
working well, but you cannot take this action isolated. It is
not a silver bullet. I think you have to combine with a
holistic strategy in order to approach the Venezuelan problem.
For example, as I said, working with government in Latin
America to support, for example, a hearing like this to show
what is really happening in Venezuela, working with those
governments in multilateral organizations such as U.N. in order
to ask for the compliance of the resolution who have asked for
the release of political prisoners. So it is not alone. One
measure will not help you to support our struggle to restore
democracy in Venezuela. So if you are only taking consideration
of that action, it won't be enough. You know what I am saying?
So I think it should be part of a holistic strategy with
different governments and at the same time multilateral----
Mr. Duncan. Sanctions----
Mr. Vecchio Demari [continuing]. Organizations----
Mr. Duncan [continuing]. Alone won't work?
Mr. Vecchio Demari. What?
Mr. Duncan. Sanctions alone won't work is what you are
saying?
Mr. Vecchio Demari. I think they have to be combined with
other measures, yes.
Mr. Duncan. Yes.
Mr. Vecchio Demari. And let me add this. Probably you won't
see an immediate result, but that is causing a concern on the
media officers in Venezuela saying I don't want to follow the
top officers in Venezuela putting us in a problem around the
world and especially with the violation of human rights. So now
I need to be aware of this. You know, that is also a message
that the media officers and the administration is taking in
consideration in order to take decisions. Okay?
Ms. Lopez Vermut. I think the message was very clear, and I
think it was successful to an extent. I agree with Carlos in
what he said. I think that when you see people leaving the
country and coming to the United States willing to give
information in exchange for something, it means that they are
afraid.
To me as an American citizen, the most valuable lesson of
the sanctions is understanding that it is not right to use
American soil, American systems, financial organizations to
wash your hands when you have blood on your hands in another
country. I think that is a really powerful message, and I do
think strongly that people within the regime think about that.
Mr. Duncan. Right. Right.
Mr. Vecchio Demari. Just let me add just a short sentence
which is very important, something that you could do. We
understand there is an ongoing investigation from the U.S.
authorities against top Venezuelan officers, for example,
Diosdado Cabello and others regarding drug trafficking and
money laundering. We need to know who they are. We need to know
the status of that investigation. That is quite important. And
also, we need to see, although I understand that you have a
legal procedure to follow, but we need to see the evidence that
supports those investigations. That will help us to show to the
Venezuelans who really are in power right now.
Mr. Duncan. That is interesting. So, Ms. Pacheco?
Ms. Pacheco. If you ask me about honesty, and I will do so,
that the idea initially is a good basis, and the initiative,
that probably the idea of having it work on some Venezuelan
officers are used by the government of Maduro, Maduro's regime
for their own benefit in Venezuela, within Venezuela. And the
polarization between the nationalism and if we do not move from
words into action to the next step, nothing concrete will be
obtained.
Personally, I believe that there is sufficient evidence
that there is evidence of high top officers of the regime, the
government, the Venezuelan regime involved in the violation of
human rights, in narco trafficking and money laundering, and in
a whole bunch of crimes that they even carry out here. And that
at the end of the day we have not seen serious decisions with
that regard.
Mr. Duncan. Thank you. I hate to do it, but we are going to
have to wrap up. I want to thank the witnesses on panel II for
your bravery and your courage that you have shown here just by
testifying today. The courage that you have shown is not
forgotten.
Pursuant to the committee rule 7, the members of our
subcommittee be permitted to submit written statements be
included in the official hearing record. And without objection,
the hearing record will remain open for 5 business days to
allow statements, questions, extraneous materials for the
record subject to the length limitation to the rules.
And there being no further business, this committee will
stand adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:56 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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