[House Hearing, 114 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
AFRICA'S GREAT LAKES REGION: A SECURITY, POLITICAL, AND HUMANITARIAN
CHALLENGE
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON AFRICA, GLOBAL HEALTH,
GLOBAL HUMAN RIGHTS, AND
INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
OCTOBER 22, 2015
__________
Serial No. 114-107
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
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COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida BRAD SHERMAN, California
DANA ROHRABACHER, California GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
JOE WILSON, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
TED POE, Texas BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
MATT SALMON, Arizona KAREN BASS, California
DARRELL E. ISSA, California WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
MO BROOKS, Alabama AMI BERA, California
PAUL COOK, California ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California
RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas GRACE MENG, New York
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
RON DeSANTIS, Florida TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
TED S. YOHO, Florida ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
CURT CLAWSON, Florida BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee
REID J. RIBBLE, Wisconsin
DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan
LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
DANIEL DONOVAN, New York
Amy Porter, Chief of Staff Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director
Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights, and
International Organizations
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey, Chairman
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina KAREN BASS, California
CURT CLAWSON, Florida DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee AMI BERA, California
DANIEL DONOVAN, New York
C O N T E N T S
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Page
WITNESSES
The Honorable Linda Thomas-Greenfield, Assistant Secretary,
Bureau of African Affairs, U.S. Department of State............ 4
The Honorable Thomas Perriello, Special Envoy for the Great Lakes
Region of Africa, U.S. Department of State..................... 22
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
The Honorable Linda Thomas-Greenfield: Prepared statement........ 7
The Honorable Thomas Perriello: Prepared statement............... 26
APPENDIX
Hearing notice................................................... 60
Hearing minutes.................................................. 61
AFRICA'S GREAT LAKES REGION:
A SECURITY, POLITICAL, AND
HUMANITARIAN CHALLENGE
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THURSDAY, OCTOBER 22, 2015
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health,
Global Human Rights, and International Organizations,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:03 p.m., in
room 2200 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Christopher H.
Smith (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Smith. The subcommittee will come to order and thank
you to our very highly distinguished witnesses for being here
and for taking the time to provide your insights and counsel to
this subcommittee.
Ladies and gentlemen, to state that the Great Lakes region
of Africa is troubled would be an understatement. Burundi is
experiencing continued turmoil due to a recent contentious
election. The Democratic Republic of the Congo, or DRC, has had
some level of conflict since the late 1990s. The Lord's
Resistance Army, also known as the LRA, has plagued several of
these countries. Alleged plundering of DRC resources by Rwanda
and Uganda has never been fully resolved. Nations in the region
have been preoccupied in the last 2 years with resolving the
South Sudanese Civil War.
Definitions vary, but the Great Lakes region, as defined by
the U.S. Department of State, comprises Burundi, DRC, Rwanda,
and Uganda. The region is among the most densely populated in
Africa, especially around Lake Victoria, and enjoys rich
agricultural potential, water resources, minerals, and
wildlife. However, political instability, conflict,
humanitarian crises, and lack of development remain key
challenges.
These four countries are the purview of the U.S. Special
Envoy to the Great Lakes, Tom Perriello, who we are delighted
to have here today, a former Member of the House and a former
member of the committee I served on for years and that is the
Veterans Affairs Committee. So Tom, thank you for being here.
We also have Assistant Secretary of State for African
Affairs, an expert in the field, Linda Thomas-Greenfield, who
has spent a great deal of her time in office dealing with the
Great Lakes and a great deal of time on the road. It has been
hard to get you up here, but I know, as you said just a moment
ago, you have been spending 3 weeks out of four on the road and
that is very commendable on your part to spend so much time
working on these issues.
Today's hearing offers an opportunity to hear from these
top administration officials, not only about continuing U.S.
efforts to extinguish the LRA threat, but also the
administration's work with governments in the region on issues
such as peace building, governance, and adherence to
internationally recognized human rights and democracy.
In our subcommittee hearings over the last 3 years, we have
uncovered numerous troubling situations. Even with the supposed
end of the operations by M23 militia, an issue in DRC, in late
2013, there are several other militias still causing
instability in the region. The Kabila government in the DRC
reportedly is using a ban on completing foreign adoptions as
leverage to ward off actions to prevent him from prolonging in
his rule, despite a constitutional bar to any reelection bid.
The Burundian President's decision to run for a third term,
which some Burundians and outside observers viewed as a
violation of a landmark peace agreement and arguably the
Constitution of Burundi, has led to a political crisis and
heightened concerns about regional stability.
Human rights abuses in Rwanda were found to be targeted
toward real or perceived political opponents prior to 2012, but
after 2012, such abuses were seen as more random, expanding the
targets of the regime. Major Robert Higiro, a retired Rwandan
military officer, told our subcommittee on May 20th about his
solicitation by the Rwandan intelligence chief to kill high-
level defectors. He turned against the government and informed
the targets who asked him to record the offer. He did, and the
recording was validated by the Globe and Mail in Canada and the
British Broadcasting Corporation, the BBC. The State Department
has not only found the allegation to be credible but warned
Major Higiro to leave Belgium where his life was in danger.
Although LRA killings have diminished in the past few
years, kidnappings by the group have risen as it operates in
smaller, scattered cells using more adults as temporary labor.
One witness at our hearing last month said an end to the U.S.
support for the counter-LRA effort would be ``devastating,'' I
believe the administration will continue that counter-LRA
effort and that is encouraging.
We have heard of the difficulties of addressing issues in
this troubled region of Africa by both governments and private
witnesses over the last few years, however, the fates of these
countries are interconnected and our policies need to take that
into account.
I would like to yield to Mr. Cicilline for any opening
comments he might have.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for
calling this hearing today and to our distinguished witnesses
for being here to share your experiences and recommendations
for U.S. policy toward this region.
When I think of the Great Lakes region in Africa what so
often comes to mind is the incredible conflict and suffering
that the region has experienced in recent decades. The wars in
Burundi and DRC and genocide in Rwanda unleash true horrors
upon the population. But despite their troubled past, the
countries of the Great Lakes region, Burundi, the Democratic
Republic of the Congo, Rwanda, and Uganda have made some
progress. Peace accords restored a semblance of stability to
Burundi and the DRC. Rwanda has become an example in terms of
economic development of the region. Uganda has experienced
relative peace and stability.
I recently visited Rwanda and had the opportunity to see
some of this progress first-hand; however, there remain great
challenges to regional stability and for the forward progress
of these countries. Public health issues, violence against
women, HIV/AIDS, and food security remain challenges throughout
the region. Moreover, leaders in Burundi, DRC, and Rwanda have
indicated reluctance to allow for peaceful transitions of
power. Burundi President Pierre Nkurunziza's decision to run
for a third term in contravention of the Arusha Accords is very
troubling as are indications that the Presidents of the DRC and
Rwanda may attempt to circumvent term limits in their own
countries. President Museveni has ruled Uganda since 1986.
I firmly believe that further economic development of these
countries and improvements in their health, safety, and food
security will be directly tied to their acceptance of free and
fair democratic process.
I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today as to
how Congress can encourage these countries to maintain a
democratic trajectory. And with that, I yield back and thank
you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Smith. I would like to yield to Mark Meadows.
Mr. Meadows. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for
continuing to make humanitarian relief a focus of this
subcommittee on a regular basis and for me, it is very
gratifying to have both of you here to testify today. We look
forward to hearing not only your expert testimony, but how we
can go beyond a hearing and make an impact in countries that
most Americans would have a hard time finding on a map.
We see the devastation. We hear the stories, but they are
headlines and they are far away. And we need to do a better job
as Members of Congress, but we also need to do a better job of
highlighting those areas where we can make a difference. So I
look forward to hearing from both of you on perhaps two things
that we are doing well, but two things that we need drastic
improvement on and that way we can have actionable items. And
with that, I will yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, Mr. Meadows. I would like
to introduce our two distinguished witnesses, beginning first
with Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield, a member of the career
Foreign Service who was sworn in on August 6, 2013 as the
Assistant Secretary for African Affairs. Prior to assuming her
current position, she led a team of about 400 employees who
carried out personnel functions for the State Department's
70,000 strong work force.
Since beginning her Foreign Service career in 1982, I note
parenthetically, a year after I came to Congress, she has risen
through the ranks to the Minister Counselor level, serving in
Jamaica, Nigeria, The Gambia, Kenya, Pakistan, and at the U.S.
Mission to the United Nations, and most recently as Ambassador
to Liberia where she served from 2008 to 2012.
Then we will hear from the Honorable Thomas Perriello,
Special Envoy for the Great Lakes Region of Africa. He
previously served as Special Representative for the Quadrennial
Diplomacy and Development Review and also served as a
Congressman from Virginia. And I would note also that he served
on the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs and I thank him for
that service. I served on that committee as well. He was also a
Special Advisor to the Prosecutor of the Special Court for
Sierra Leone, an extremely effective court that was led by
David Crane, as we all know, and ultimately secured a major
conviction and that was of Charles Taylor, who got 50 years for
the atrocities that he unleashed upon the people in Sierra
Leone and Liberia.
He has also served as CEO of the Center for American
Progress Action. He has worked and conducted research in a
dozen countries and taught courses on transitional justice at
the University of Virginia's School of Law and the University
of Sierra Leone.
Outside of government, Mr. Perriello has co-founded and
managed justice entrepreneurship platforms and faith-based
organizations advancing human rights, poverty reduction, and
sustainability.
Madam Ambassador, the floor is yours.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, ASSISTANT
SECRETARY, BUREAU OF AFRICAN AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. Thank you very much, Chairman
Smith and thanks to the other members of the subcommittee for
the opportunity to testify today on the many challenges facing
the central African region. I am honored to testify here today
with Special Envoy to the Great Lakes Region of Africa, Tom
Perriello, one of your former colleagues.
The Department and the Bureau of African Affairs, in
particular, greatly appreciates the bipartisan support we
continue to receive for our work, for our Embassies, and for
our people who spend every single day striving to promote our
national security, foreign policy, and economic interests on
the continent of Africa.
In the central African region, particularly in the
countries of Rwanda, Burundi, the Democratic Republic of the
Congo (DRC), the Republic of Congo, our efforts to strengthen
democratic institutions, spur economic growth, advance peace
and security, and promote opportunity and development have
borne fruit. However, the progress made in this region is
fragile and it is at great risk, as you both described in your
remarks. In fact, this is the region that I am most concerned
about as it is way out of step of the progression that the rest
of continent is making.
I know that you are interested in our continuing efforts to
combat the Lord's Resistance Army, also known as the LRA, and I
am pleased to report that we actually have had some good
success there, in fact, great success working through our
regional partners, notably Uganda and the African Union. The
Central African Republic, despite intense conflicts in that
country, the Democratic Republic of the Congo with its
political issues, South Sudan at war with itself, all have
actively provided assistance to us in countering the LRA. Over
270 people have either defected, escaped, or been released
since 2012. Four of the five top commanders are in The Hague.
The number of people killed by the LRA has dropped by 90
percent since 2010 when 365 were killed and we have had 19
killed since June 30, 2015. Even that is too many, but it is a
significant decrease.
These numbers make it clear that our strategy is working,
but Joseph Kony is still commanding the remnants of the LRA and
until he is brought to justice we remain committed to finishing
the work that we have started.
President Obama's July speech to the African Union in Addis
Ababa where he addressed the critical issue of democratic
transition including term limits, respect for constitutions,
and the peaceful transfer of leadership, has resonated
resoundingly on the continent. The core principles the
President elaborated are the cornerstone of our engagement with
leaders whose time in office should be coming to an end. And
note that I said ``should.'' Over the next 2 years, each of the
countries in this region has faced or will face the opportunity
to realize a true democratic transfer of power. Yet, in each of
these countries, that agreed-upon process is in doubt. The
leaders of these nations have been making fateful decisions
whether or not to abide by their previous commitments, respect
the rule of law and their constitutions, and responsibly build
a foundation of peaceful, elected, democratic leadership and
transition.
In Burundi, President Nkurunziza's pursuit of a third term
caused the current volatile political crisis. Prevailing
circumstances have forced over 200,000 Burundians to flee into
neighboring countries since April and many of those attempting
to flee have reported violent confrontations by party militias
and police. Special Envoy Perriello just returned from the
region and will provide more context on our current efforts
there.
While the Republic of Congo is outside our definition of
the Great Lakes region, it impacts it and is affected by
similar situations as elsewhere in the region. President Sassou
Nguesso's decision to call for a popular referendum on a
proposed new constitution is deeply troubling and has created a
volatile situation that could spiral beyond the government's
control with tragic results. And as I speak today, the current
situation in the country is very, very tense.
I now turn to circumstances across the Congo River in the
Democratic Republic of the Congo. Before I get into the
electoral and security situations I would like to assure you,
the Members of Congress, and any of your constituents who are
anxiously waiting to bring their adopted children home, that we
remain closely engaged with DRC officials at the highest levels
to lift the ban on exit permits for the hundreds of legally-
adopted children who are unable to join their new families and
we will not cease in our efforts until all of these cases are
resolved.
On the political front, we remain deeply concerned by the
situation in DRC. President Kabila's final term is due to end
in December 2016. Efforts by the President to amend the
constitution or guarantee electoral delays have been vigorously
resisted, even by some of his own majority in the DRC
Parliament and certainly by his citizens. Tom has also just
concluded a visit from that country and he will go into more
details on our analysis and our approach to the situation, but
I must note that at this time I don't see that DRC is yet at a
precipice. President Kabila faces a choice. He can establish a
tradition of peaceful transition of power for his country or he
can set back the significant progress that he himself has made
during his tenure by trying to stay in office beyond his term.
Finally, on Rwanda, the United States has been a strong
partner with Rwanda. While it has been making significant and
commendable strides in spurring economic growth and promoting
development following the devastating 1994 genocide, we
continue to encourage Rwanda to demonstrate significantly
greater respect for human rights and democratic principles.
Thus, I have to admit we were very disappointed when the
Rwandan Government established a constitutional reform
commission that has recommended removing executive term limits
that would permit President Kagame to seek a third term in 2017
and we have urged him against this.
Chairman Smith and members of the subcommittee, I want to
thank you again for holding this hearing and giving us the
opportunity to discuss our extensive engagement in the region.
I hope that the information that we share with you today, as
well as with the audience here, is helpful. I look forward to
answering all of your questions as I know Tom will.
[The prepared statement of Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield
follows:]
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----------
Mr. Smith. Madam Ambassador, thank you very, very much.
I would like to now yield the floor to Special Envoy
Perriello.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE THOMAS PERRIELLO, SPECIAL ENVOY FOR
THE GREAT LAKES REGION OF AFRICA, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Mr. Perriello. Chairman Smith, and members of the
subcommittee, thank you so much for the invitation to testify
today and for your unwavering interest in the comprehensive
efforts to support peace, democracy, and development in the
Great Lakes region. I am honored to be back on Capitol Hill to
have this opportunity to serve and to get to testify here today
with one of the true all-stars of the foreign service,
Assistant Secretary Linda Thomas-Greenfield.
As she outlined, we greatly appreciate the broad support
from Capitol Hill for our engagement, our values, our programs
and our Embassies in the region. After decades of instability,
and of international investment in peace, the next 2 years will
determine much about the future of the Great Lakes region. The
run-up to elections in the Republic of Congo, the DRC, Rwanda,
and Uganda, and the ensuing crisis from Burundi's discredited
elections, will determine much about whether the region will
reap the benefits of decades of investments in security and
democracy or rather trade in that hard-fought progress for the
entrenchment of individual leaders. It is for this reason that
I am focusing my testimony today on these upcoming elections
and our efforts to support them, although I will be more than
happy to answer questions on other issues afterwards.
The crisis in Burundi is a prime example of what happens
when an individual clings to power at the expense of his
country. President Nkurunziza's decision to stand for a third
term and violate the Arusha agreement has triggered a complex
and dire crisis. Months of government repression, a failed coup
attempt, discredited elections, tit-for-tat assassinations, and
a mounting humanitarian crisis leave Burundi facing a shorter
and shorter fuse.
Open political space has been all but eliminated in
Burundi, creating an environment of intimidation and fear where
daily violence and assassinations have become the norm. Much of
the violence is reportedly carried out at the hands of state
security services in the Imbonerakure, the armed wing of the
ruling party's youth militia, but also by groups aligned with
different political parties acting in retaliation. Their
actions risk an expanded civil war as well as state failure.
While Burundi's past conflicts have been marked by horrific
ethnic massacres, the current crisis has thus far avoided this
element. However, we worry with continued instability the risk
for the conflict to take on an ethnic component grows. Perhaps
most pressing, Burundi's economy is in free fall which will
continue to exacerbate the suffering of the Burundian people,
already among the world's poorest, many of whom suffered from
malnutrition even before the crisis.
We generally support regional leadership in resolving
conflicts. However, certain regional dynamics in this case are
impeding progress. Those in the region interested in testing
their own country's term limit provisions are watching Burundi
out of their own self-interest. Those supporting Nkurunziza
also argue that our focus on term limits comes at the expense
of stability. But the facts prove quite the opposite. Regular,
democratic transitions of power are in the best interests of a
country's stability. No credible observer thinks Burundi would
not be better off if Nkurunziza had allowed constitutional
elections to proceed. The international community would be
talking about targeted investments, not targeted sanctions. We
would be talking about Burundi as a model, not as a cautionary
tale.
There are also broader geopolitical dynamics in play here.
Some countries side with Burundi's Government because they
believe the instability is being driven not by legitimate
discontent by Burundians, but by Rwanda's support for the
opposition. This is reviving historic geopolitical fault lines
and risks holding back regional consensus on next steps to
resolve the crisis. We encourage Rwanda, Tanzania, and all
neighboring countries to be a force for peaceful resolution.
We believe that an inclusive, immediate, and
internationally-mediated dialogue amongst Burundian
stakeholders under EAC and AU leadership is the best route to
resolve this crisis. We were heartened to see strong leadership
and consensus at the African Union last weekend when the Peace
and Security Council called for the resumption of an inclusive
dialogue to be held outside of the country under the
facilitation of President Museveni. We support the AU's
leadership in demanding more urgent progress toward dialogue
and consequences for those who impede it.
Regarding our next steps, we are pursuing all available
diplomatic tools to convince Burundian stakeholders, the
region, and the international community to support the
immediate resumption of dialogue. We have already significantly
curtailed our security assistance to the Burundian Government
and all remaining non-lifesaving U.S. assistance is being
reviewed. While we strongly support the peacekeeping missions
in Somalia and the Central African Republic, our ongoing
support for Burundi's participation could be suspended if the
government continues on its current path.
We are reviewing options for holding individuals
accountable for acts of violence and human rights abuses. In
this effort, we support the AU's call for sanctions and the
EU's recent decision to impose targeted sanctions to hold
accountable those whose actions they determined have led to
acts of unlawful violence and serious human rights abuses.
Lastly, the interagency is working with the White House on
contingency planning for the possibility of more widespread
violence in Burundi. We laud the AU for also pursuing such
planning and we will support efforts to prevent mass
atrocities.
Whereas Burundi has already made a costly decision to
pursue a dangerous path, the leadership of the DRC still faces
a choice, a crossroads, with its Presidential elections
currently scheduled for November 2016. Good elections would
bolster the DRC's democratic development and be a critical step
in addressing governance issues that have been a fundamental
aspect of decades of instability. On the other hand, a delayed
or illegitimate election could set off a far greater crisis
than we have seen in Burundi. The DRC Constitution states
unambiguously that a President may serve only two consecutive
terms in office and this provision cannot be amended.
The government's attempts to change the electoral process
in a way that could extend President Kabila's tenure have been
staunchly rejected by the population, many of the President's
own political supporters, their Parliament, and civil society.
There are technical challenges that must be addressed if
national elections are to be held on time. The current bloated
electoral calendar is already off track. The voting rolls have
not been updated since the last elections and the Independent
National Electoral Commission or CENI recently became
leaderless with the resignation of its President, Abbe Malu
Malu.
Beyond the timing and logistics of elections, the most
concerning trend in the DRC is the alarming escalation of
political repression and the closing of political space.
Disturbing reports of extrajudicial killings, use of excessive
force against demonstrators, and trumped up convictions of
civil society leaders are all of serious concern.
The challenges outlined above are not insurmountable, but a
2016 election will require Congolese political leaders to
quickly reach consensus on next steps. First, the DRC needs to
revise a realistic electoral calendar which prioritizes
Presidential and parliamentary elections next year and
consolidates multiple rounds of voting.
Second, the DRC Government and the CENI should agree upon a
budget and the government should disburse the necessary funds.
Third, the CENI should green light a process for updating
existing voter rolls. Fourth, candidates, parties, and
government officials should all make a pledge for nonviolence.
Fifth, the DRC Government should resume cooperation with
MONUSCO to ensure proper security, given the acute risk of
instability and violence during the election period.
We will continue to engage the DRC Government, CENI,
opposition parties, and civil society to support the upcoming
elections and to maintain and reopen political space. We will
also continue to work with our donor partners on public
engagement and electoral support. Our goal is simple: Let the
voice of the Congolese people shape their country's bright
future.
Finally, Rwanda's elections are not until 2017, but the
Rwandan Government is already taking steps to enable President
Kagame to remain in office beyond current constitutional term
limits. While we respect the ability of any Parliament to pass
legislation that reflects the will of the people, we continue
to firmly support the principle of democratic transition of
power in all countries and respect for existing constitutional
term limit provisions. We do not support incumbents amending
constitutions to stay in power as doing so undermines
democratic institutions and is an ingredient for instability.
The fate of democracy in Rwanda is about more than just the
next election. Political freedoms continue to be limited,
creating an environment where open debate and disagreements
about security and political issues are rarely seen. Respect
for human rights is a pillar of democracy and credible
elections.
Let me conclude these introductory remarks with a few
general takeaways. First, countries in the region are watching
closely what happens in Burundi and the Republic of Congo with
their own elections in mind. Second, there must be consequences
when leaders deliberately exchange their country's stability
for their own hold on power. Sanctions and cuts to assistance
as targeted as possible must be part of this equation. Third,
courageous citizens across the region take great personal risk
each day to defend fundamental freedoms and a future many of us
take for granted, the Pierre Clavers, the Yves, the Freds. The
future of the region will be forged by those who stand for a
democratic future, but our policy can reinforce and protect
their efforts. Fourth, high-level U.S. and international
engagement will be pivotal between now and 2017 as the region
is watching how donors respond to actions in the region.
Despite the worrying signs across the region, I want to end
on a positive note. There is still a window for all Burundian
stakeholders to come together in a dialogue before this
escalates to war. There is time for the DRC to organize
credible and historic elections to see the first peaceful
democratic transition and for Rwanda's story to be one of great
economic growth and democratization. But time is of the
essence, as is strong bipartisan U.S. leadership. Thank you
very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Perriello follows:]
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----------
Mr. Smith. Without objection your full statement will be
made a part of the record as well as yours, Madam Ambassador.
Let me just ask a few opening questions. First of all, we
did have a hearing on the LRA on September 30 and there was a
consensus among our witnesses that not only elimination, but
even a limitation on the current U.S. deployment could be
catastrophic. And I just hope you can reassure us that that is
not in the offing. And you point out and the evidence is very
clear, there has been a 90 percent decrease in killings, a 30
percent decrease in attacks by the LRA since deployment in
2011. And yet, there has been, not an increase, but a troubling
number of abductions, particularly of Congolese that have
occurred over the last 4 years, 417 was the number that was
cited to us.
And I am just wondering, one of the things that came out of
that hearing as well was the importance of U.S. leadership, the
Ugandans, and the others who have very capable troops deployed
as to how it really--that could all fall apart, too, without
the U.S. command and control and some of the other
counterinsurgency expertise that is brought to bear. So if you
could just speak to that and how important that deployment has
been and hopefully will continue. How well the other nations
have stood-up troops because again, we don't want those troops
to go away, we want them to stay focused until Kony is brought
to justice as well as those who have committed atrocities.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. Let me just say that we are
very proud of what we have achieved so far. Again, we don't
want to sit on our hands and pat ourselves on the back yet
because Kony is still out there. And as long as Kony is still
out there, we remain committed to working with governments in
the region to address this issue. We believe that our
comprehensive strategy incorporating military and civilian
efforts are helping the regional governments make significant
progress to degrade the LRA's capabilities and reduce the
threat that they pose to the communities around them.
And I want to note that we conduct regular interagency
reviews to ensure that this effort is making sufficient
progress. Our most recent review concluded that it continues to
do so. So we will continue to remain committed to this effort.
I have had several meetings with President Museveni over the
past few months and raised this issue with him and got his
commitment that he was willing to stay the course until Kony
was captured. And so I think we are in a good place.
Mr. Smith. On the issue of adoption, we held a hearing on
July 16th with a focus on African adoptions in general and the
DRC in particular. And the concern expressed by parents and
families who actually know their children, but can't get that
permit to allow them to leave the country. Peter Pham of the
Atlantic Council who has appeared before our subcommittee many
times, recently wrote an op-ed accusing Kabila of blocking the
departure to the United States of legally-adopted children as a
form of blackmail against pressure to follow the constitution.
If you could just provide further insight as to what is
causing--the factors that are causing the ability of these
children to find that loving home that just awaits them and
whether or not Dr. Pham is raising a legitimate point with
regards to the reason, or one of the reasons, why Kabila is
dragging his feet?
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. I don't know that I could
speak for the motives of President Kabila and the Government of
the DRC, but I do want to say that we have put undue pressure
on the government to relinquish these children and to allow
them to exit the country. President Obama called President
Kabila to urge him to action. Secretary Kerry has pressed
Kabila to resolve this matter. We have had the Assistant
Secretary for Consular Affairs travel to the DRC in March. In
August, we had one of my deputies, Stu Symington, also engage
with the government when he was there. Dr. Jill Biden sent a
letter to President Kabila and to his sister to encourage him.
Special Envoy Perriello has visited and he raised this issue.
And during the U.N. General Assembly last month in New
York, both of us met with the government, with the Foreign
Minister and we put this first on our agenda, which surprised
him, that this was at the top of our agenda. We had a meeting
for probably 1\1/2\ hours and the top subject, more than 30
minutes, was on adoption issues. What we are hearing from the
government, and we continue to hear from the government is soon
they are going to make a decision. Soon has not come soon
enough for the families.
Mr. Smith. Sure. What are the reasons? And I know some of
the kids actually passed away from illnesses that could have
been mitigated and probably eliminated.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. Part of the reason again, and
I don't want to speak for the Government of the DRC, but they
have argued that some of the adoptions were not done legally
and because of that they want to investigate and ensure that
legal procedures are used in the future. We are good with that,
but most of these cases, in fact, probably the majority, if not
all of our cases, were done in a legal manner and we are just
asking that the government to release these children. They are
still approving new cases which is a real problem for us
because then it is causing more families to go through the
anguish that they are going through. And many of those families
are living in the DRC with their children, taking care of their
children so that they can ensure their health and well-being.
Mr. Smith. But the ongoing approvals would suggest that it
is a delay, not a stoppage.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. That is my hope and prayer,
but it is still taking way too long.
Mr. Smith. Let me just ask you with regards to Burundi, on
July 2, obviously, the administration and State Department
announced the suspension of several security assistance
programs. What conditions must be met by the Burundian
Government in order for the U.S. Government to resume the
security aid? And are there other sanctions potentially being
contemplated now?
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. Right now, what we are
pushing the government to do is start a dialogue, an inclusive
dialogue led by the Ugandan Government through the EAC. That
would be the first step, but I think we have to wait and see
what the results of that dialogue are before we get into any
discussions with the government on next steps of resuming a
normal relationship with this government.
Tom, you might want to follow up.
Mr. Perriello. Sure. So a number of different programs have
been suspended for a number of different reasons including
security conditions on the ground, some of the multilateral
lending institutions in the EU and others also have suspended
based on everything from failure to meet the most basic
transparency corruption standards, as well as obviously human
rights and other concerns. The government, I think, would be
mistaken to believe that they are within a step or two of such
programs resuming, but the biggest step that could be taken as
the Assistant Secretary mentioned would be the resumption of
the dialogue and the moving toward again stability, as well as
meeting that range of standards. And we are continuing to look
at the full range of options that are available in terms of
programs that are ongoing as well as looking at the leadership
of the African Union and the European Union have taken, and
holding people accountable, not just on the government side,
but anyone also who is resorting to force or violence on the
opposition side.
Mr. Smith. Let me just ask you, when Rwandan Major Robert
Higiro testified, we had vetted him very, very carefully and I
know we asked the State Department to review his evidence which
seemed very compelling. And my understanding is very clearly
you found it to be credible. How has that affected our
relationship with Rwanda? Have we raised it? What has the
response been to these extrajudicial killings or the
allegations of such? How do they respond to this?
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. This is an ongoing subject
with the Rwandan Government at every level. When we have had
congressional delegations go out like Senator Coons who was out
there a few weeks ago, in all of our engagements with the
Rwandan Government, with the President, we have raised our
concerns about human rights violations, about reports and
allegations of extrajudicial killings, about disappearances.
And they have denied their involvement in all of these cases.
But we have been clear in our messaging that this will have a
real deep impact on our future engagement with the Rwandans.
They are doing some wonderful things on the economic and social
front. They are making progress on the Millennium Development
Goals (MDGs) like no other country. That is an amazing legacy
that will be destroyed if on the political and human rights
side they don't----
Mr. Smith. I would suggest that legacy and I know Rick
Warren has been very clear about this that it is only because--
there is government commitment, no doubt. But it is the faith-
based organizations that have made all the difference in the
world. And I know, Tom, you might want to speak to that as
well, that it has a multiplier effect. I mean Rick Warren
recently brought a map and said here is where some of the
government stations are for health and the like. Here is a map
with stars or flags where there are faith-based communities
that can take these challenges on and truly get it to the
people. So I would encourage you to continue utilizing the
faith-based community to the nth degree because I think the
multiplier effect has no equal.
Mr. Perriello. Sure, just to echo what the Assistant
Secretary said, not just in Rwanda, but throughout the region
we have emphasized several points, one of which is that fair
elections don't just happen on election day. It is about the
environment that is created in the months and the year ahead of
an election. Is there open political space where dissent is
welcomed, where assembly and press are welcomed? And we have
seen in Rwanda, in DRC, in Burundi, obviously, past the
breaking point that that political space is closing.
We have seen faith-based organizations play a tremendously
positive role in all three of those countries including Rwanda
and there has been an effort by leaders in multiple countries
to say anyone critical of a government is immediately an
opposition party member and this distinction between civil
society organizations who are independent of political parties,
but raising concerns about human rights, press freedoms, and
other issues, as well in the Burundi case, of seeing anyone who
is critical as being a putschist or a coup plotter. This is not
what happens in stable democratic societies. All of us have
faced more than a little dissent in criticism from political
opponents and we have to understand that that is part of a
healthy democracy. So we continue to raise that, not just for
the Government of Rwanda, but governments throughout the
region.
Mr. Smith. I would say I am not sure we all welcome the
opposition, but we certainly know that it is part of the system
and it is an important part of it.
Mr. Cicilline.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our
witnesses. Each of the countries that are the subject of this
hearing face critical moments in terms of political transition.
I just wonder if you would share with the committee what you
think we might be able to do to encourage this democratic
transition that seems to be up for consideration in each of
these three countries and how we might use whatever tools are
available to us to really encourage and persuade the leadership
in these countries about the impact that that kind of peaceful
transition has on the long-term security and prosperity of
their country?
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. I think the most important
thing that we can do is to be consistent in our messaging. It
has to come from every source within the U.S. Government. If we
from the State Department are going out to meet with these
governments, if members of other agencies are going out to meet
with these governments, Members of Congress are going out, they
have to hear to same message from all of us that we support
democracy, we support stability, and we support countries
honoring their constitutions and not changing their
constitutions to benefit the incumbent who is in power. These
countries are hearing these messages.
I like to refer to the fact that we have actually had some
success. The one success we have had is that all of these
countries have bought into the legitimacy of elections because
in the past they didn't have elections. They would just declare
themselves President for life and people would have to live
with it. It is a small glimmer there, but the fact that
elections provide legitimacy is an important thing and now we
have to work to improve those elections, improve the ability of
people in these countries to participate in elections and prove
the ability of civil society to have a voice and then we will
end up with examples like Nigeria. And I know we are not here
to discuss Nigeria where civil society was a key player in that
election, where capacity building was a key element in having a
successful, democratic election that led to a peaceful
transition.
Mr. Perriello. Let me just offer a few things. One, I think
to something Congressman Meadows said at the beginning. One of
our biggest enemies here is apathy. And I think as we raise
awareness, whether that is from the perch you have here or
visiting the region, this is not something that has got the
world's spotlight. There are so many crises around the world.
The people of the region have struggled for a long time and
forged a path forward and I think they deserve the world's
attention. So I think that is one positive thing.
Second is while it is important for all of us as has been
pointed out to call out backsliding in the region or closing of
political space, there is also a lot positive to be said here.
Everybody knows that this is a region with unbelievable
potential, not just because of its mineral wealth, but because
it does have strong leadership in civil society. It has really
developed some of the institutions. Some are nascent of strong
democracies. There are heroes who are risking their lives every
day to defend basic freedoms and so I think we have a positive
story to tell.
Third is continuing to be strong partners to the African
Union as well as the European Union in these efforts. The
African Union took quite bold leadership last week in its
communique about Burundi and I think where they are willing to
show leadership in the region across the continent, it is
important for us to be there.
The last thing I just want to say is a shout out to
supporting our Embassies there and particularly in Burundi that
has been under difficult circumstances with security risks and
drawdowns, a lot of long hours. When I go out and visit, they
always welcome me even though I know it is exhausting for them
to have visitors. And so continuing to be supportive of our
folks that are out there under difficult circumstances.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you. And this spring, MONUSCO helped
facilitate the release of 431 child soldiers from rebel groups
in eastern Congo and the U.N. is currently working to help
reintegrate these children back into society. Can you speak a
little bit to how the United States is supporting efforts to
disarm, demobilize, and reintegrate former combatants in the
Congo, particularly as it pertains to children?
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. That is one of our highest
priorities in terms of working with governments on disarmament
and demobilization. And USAID has a very robust program in DRC
working in this area. I don't have the exact details. You were
just out there. You may have more at hand. But it is something
that we work very, very closely with MONUSCO on. We also are
supporting UNICEF's efforts to help integrate these children
back into their communities.
Mr. Perriello. Yes, I just happened to be out at a project
in Bukavu not long ago, just last week, it all bleeds together
now, but it was an inspiring project, a local organization that
had some support from both USAID and Eastern Congo Initiative
that was working with both former child combatants, and also
young women who had been in sexual slavery or otherwise put at
risk. And it was skills training. And one of the things that
people have learned over the years partly with support from our
development organizations is it is not enough just to give the
training. There has to be a demand side at the other end, an
organization ready to hire them or some ability to allow them
to start their own entrepreneurship operation. So this is
incredibly important. It was something we certainly saw back
when I was living in Sierra Leone as well, finding economic
opportunities, but also community and support networks,
psychosocial counseling, etcetera. So the United States, along
with many other independent organizations, are doing great work
on that, but I think it is also a reminder as we look at how
crucial this democratic transition is that there continue to be
elements that could become very problematic if the country
started to backslide. And that is one of the reasons we have to
stay so focused on the stability element as well.
Mr. Cicilline. And finally, as you know, Uganda's
Constitutional Court overturned their anti-homosexuality law.
That was last year, but of course, we know that that doesn't
end homophobic or anti-LGBT activities. So what is the current
status of attempts to legalize homophobia and violence in
Uganda? What do you think is the prospect that that issue will
be raised again and is it a sentiment that is being reflected
in other parts of the region that we should be aware of?
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. We were very pleased when the
Constitutional Court made the decision to not move forward with
this bill and we have since heard from Ugandan authorities that
they have no intention of presenting this bill back to their
Parliament. That said, it always could happen again. We
continue to support the LGBT community in Uganda, to encourage
respect for their human rights. Human rights are enshrined in
the Ugandan Constitution and so we constantly remind them that
respect of the human rights of all Ugandans regardless of their
sexual orientation or gender identity is critical to the
country's success and moving forward in democracy. And I
actually see this, at least up to this point, as a success
story.
The LGBT community in Uganda have told us that they are
seeing more support from the police. They feel much more
confidence in the chief of police and they think his leadership
has been part of building their confidence in the community. So
we will continue to work this effort. It is not over. This
doesn't change hearts and minds. There is still a huge, huge
community of people who will express their views in ways that
are unacceptable and what we want to do is encourage the
government to hold them accountable, but also to protect the
human rights of all of their citizens.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Thank
you.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Meadows.
Mr. Meadows. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you each of you
for your testimony here today. I want to refocus on consistency
of message and by addressing consistency of message, this is
not meant to be reflective of either of you because you have
great resumes and great credentials. But throughout
administrations, whether it is Democratic or Republican
administrations, the consistency of message has not been
something that the African communities, whether it is in these
four countries or others, have been able to count on. And it is
very troubling to me as a Member of Congress that when you go
abroad, and specifically to Africa, the continent of Africa and
meet with leaders, the inconsistency of us following through on
what we promise is a reoccurring theme.
How can we address that to make sure that we are not saying
that we are making progress or making promises, only to find
out that part of our diplomatic and potentially political
influence in those regions are affected by our inability to
keep our word?
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. Thank you for that question.
I usually have someone walking behind me taking notes on
promises that I make and they usually will nudge me.
Mr. Meadows. Can we borrow some of those?
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. They will nudge me not to
make promises because if I make promises, we feel that we are
committed to following through on those promises.
What you are saying I hear regularly from African leaders.
I hear regularly that we have promised to support them in
certain areas and we have not followed up. On the other side of
that coin I hear from advocacy groups that we make promises to
hold people accountable and we don't always follow through in
holding them accountable and so that is on my shoulders to
ensure that on both sides.
Mr. Meadows. So if that is the case and I think that both
of those statements are probably accurate and there are times
when the countries do not do what they say they were going to
do. How do we just turn a blind eye to that and assume that we
are going to hit a reset button and then it somehow
miraculously is going to fix itself without identifying the
issue and trying to address it? And specifically, all we can do
is control what we do. You have the person that follows you
around. So how do we do that that we let them know that we mean
what we say, that we are going to follow through, whether it is
accountability or funding or support in a particular area?
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. I am going to be honest and
frank. It is hard. And the reason it is hard is because we
don't always have control over the resources and the resources
are constantly a moving target. So there is a lot of
manipulation of resources so that you can honor a commitment
here which means you might not be fulfilling the commitment
here because you have moved resources from here to honor the
commitments that you have made on this side of the ledger book.
And that is part of not having full control over the resources.
Mr. Meadows. You mean you specifically? Because it is a
State Department budget.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. The State Department
specifically, but I would say me more broadly within my own
small world, not actually having control over those resources.
So I say on a regular basis that my highest priority is
democracy and governance to really support governments building
capacity and electoral commissions and the capacity of civil
society so that they can work to promote better democracy. But
if you look at the pie chart, democracy and governance is the
thinnest slice of the pie.
Mr. Meadows. Right.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. And so I will make
commitments. There are elections all over the continent of
Africa and everybody is asking for us to please send an
observation team--send NDI, send IRI out to us, send the Carter
Center out to us. And I am always nodding, I am going to do my
best. And they take it as a commitment. And literally sometimes
it is a matter of moving a commitment from somewhere else that
may not be urgent at the moment and moving it over here to the
urgent and then finding a way to deal with this when it becomes
urgent. So that is part of the problem.
Mr. Meadows. Well, here is what I would offer and I will
close with this offer and then one more question. As a Member
of Congress, where we talk about apathy, it doesn't get me
votes to be for foreign aid in Africa generally in North
Carolina. I am willing to invest the political capital. I have
invested the political capital. I am willing to work with the
chairman and the ranking member because this is something that
is near and dear to my heart and I am willing to do that.
If it means expanding some of those resources from other
areas within the State Department where we can, as you put it,
I think stay focused, I am willing to do that, but we need to
know how we can best do that in a bipartisan manner. I am
willing to ask the tough questions. I know that may come as a
surprise, but I am willing to ask the tough questions to do
that. But we have to do a better job of--and again, this is not
directed at the two of you. We have to do a better job as a
nation of saying what we are willing to do, following through
on that so that they know that they can count on the word of
the American people.
Now let me digress to one other area that you have already
touched on and that has to do with the adoption of these
children. Let me be perfectly clear for anybody that is here
that is watching, this needs to go back. Enough is enough. We
have to solve this problem. I am tired of coming to hearing
after hearing after hearing and saying it is a high priority,
it is our top priority, we are making progress where you got
parents that don't believe we are making progress. And that
message needs to be taken back. It will have financial
ramifications and I am willing to stake my reputation on that.
So if you will take that message back and I will yield back,
Mr. Chairman.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. And I appreciate that message
from you. When Tom and I were meeting with the Foreign Minister
and we started on the subject and he said I can't believe you
are going to start with this subject and I said I am going to
be asked about this by our Congress. And I have to say that I
started with this subject and got an answer from you. So your
message has been heard.
Mr. Meadows. Well, tell him that we are going to look for
answers, not that we are working on it. Delay is one of those
things that everybody says we are working on it and the time is
now for answers.
Ms. Bass. Well, Ambassador Perriello, your former
colleague, Adam Schiff, sends his regards and actually is going
to call you on that exact subject because he has constituents
who have been trying to adopt from the DRC for quite a while.
So I told him that I would relay that message to you.
Thank you both for coming and your time today. I might ask
you a few questions that have already been asked since I came a
little late, so forgive me if that is the case. But I wanted to
first start by talking about Burundi and I know you gave an
update on that, Madam Assistant Secretary, but I was just
wondering what at this point do you think is our leverage in
Burundi? And I know that the AU has certainly stepped up and I
also know that we have suspended some assistance to Burundi,
but do you think it is having an impact?
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. Can I turn to my colleague to
answer that?
Ms. Bass. Sure.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. He will give a better answer
than I did.
Mr. Perriello. I will try. First of all, please tell
Congressman Schiff that I said hello. And I want you to know
that I have a picture of one of the kids on my desk in the
office.
Ms. Bass. That is good.
Mr. Perriello. And I have met with the families and one of
the first things Linda and I talked about is this is not
technically in my docket, but they made clear this is an all
team, all hands on deck effort. So all of us are participating
in this. It boggles the mind that we are where we are and I
have communicated to President Kabila directly that this is the
number one thing I hear about from my former colleagues because
that happens to be true as the message from Congressman Schiff
indicates.
On the leverage with Burundi I think there are two----
Ms. Bass. I am sorry, before you go on to that, what do you
think is the real hold up?
Mr. Perriello. As Assistant Secretary Thomas-Greenfield
said earlier, it is really difficult to know. While some people
have posited that this is an effort to get a demand on this or
that thing, it certainly has never been raised. We have gotten
clear indications from people senior in the government that
there is no legal barrier to this happening tomorrow, while
others have certainly argued to us that there are these
barriers. But as far as we can tell, there is nothing but
political will that stands between at least some of the kids
being released tomorrow, but I do want to let those who live
and breathe this issue probably give more technical answers on
it. But I can tell you that it boggles my mind.
Ms. Bass. You know, I went to one country, I won't mention
the name of the country, not in Africa, and this issue was the
same. And one of the things that was happening there was
financial because a lot of the parents, people in waiting to
adopt the children, were sending large sums of money to the
country to maintain the children in orphanages. And it seemed
as though there was a financial incentive from the people who
ran the orphanages. I don't know enough about the situation in
DRC to know if it is a similar thing that there are orphanages
that people are running and U.S. citizens are supporting.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. There have been some
allegations in that area and the fact that new adoptions are
still continuing to be approved would suggest to us that that
could be part of the problem because this is a business. And
there are people who are benefitting financially from this and
the more children they have in waiting, the more money they are
getting. So I do see that as a real issue.
Ms. Bass. And the other side of it, too, is on our side and
I am hoping that we are doing good jobs in screening who from
here is adopting because we do have a problem on the other end,
too, with some of the families here, then getting into trouble.
I wanted to--you were going to finish?
Mr. Perriello. I was going to talk about the leverage issue
with Burundi.
Ms. Bass. Yes, yes.
Mr. Perriello. I think there are a couple of categories
that we can think about. One is the various stakeholders in
Burundi itself and the second is leverage we have with others
who can be playing a positive or potentially negative role. And
we talked earlier about how some of the actors in the region,
that it is important to make sure that all the neighbors,
whether that is Rwanda, Tanzania, Angola, DRC, are all being a
force driving the stakeholders to a peace table. We believe
that is best done in Kampala, although we would also support
the African Union's call whether that is in Kampala or in
Addis.
Within Burundi right now there are a number of drivers, one
of which is economic collapse and while our direct aid has been
suspended and the EU is going through its article 96 procedure,
and obviously we try to coordinate and work not just with the
AU, but donor countries. This is a government that is facing
some real threats and challenges, not just physical security
threats, but economic crisis.
We obviously continue to support the UNHCR efforts. I
visited refugee camps in both Tanzania and Rwanda, camps with
very tough conditions right now, not because the host
governments aren't being generous, but because demands on UNHCR
right now obviously with the Syria refugee crisis and other
things are so high.
And so I think there is leverage that we have with various
actors and one of the things we are trying to do is obviously
maintain lines of communication and always provide a healthy
outlet to a peaceful solution while making clear that there
will be consequences for people both on the government and
opposition side who try to escalate and we believe that some of
those can be significant as well as support for other positive
actors in the EAC and the African Union.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. If I can just add, I think
the other leverage is to really put pressure on the region, on
the EAC, on the AU that has been, I think, moving in a great
direction, on the U.N. as well, to make sure that all of the
players are actively involved in trying to find a solution and
putting pressure on this government. They are feeling the
economic pressure as Tom said. They are feeling the economic
pressure from the EU. They are feeling the economic pressure
from the IFIs who have all pulled out their funding. And they
are feeling the economic pressure from the private sector. So
this is tremendous pressure, but it also shows the extent to
which the President is willing to let the country collapse.
Ms. Bass. Wow. So in terms of what our direction is now,
since they already had the election, the pressure and all and
our leverage is about just making it peaceful, in other words?
Because I realize that some of his opponents have mysteriously
died and there have been ongoing attacks. Is that the
direction?
Mr. Perriello. The situation in Bujumbura is incredibly
serious. In some neighborhoods we are almost to a position of
ungoverned space where there is nightly violence and it is in
both directions. There are people throwing grenades at police
officers. Those police officers are going in and in some cases
murdering entire families. In one case, that was someone with
an IOM badge that had been shown to folks and the need for
accountability that has been promised by the government.
The African Union put clearly the impetus for this crisis
on the decision to go forward with what they called non-
consensual, non-inclusive elections. We have reports from
experts, as well as those looking at refugee flows, showing
that the flow would probably be even higher if not for youth
militias in the border areas, trying to prevent people from
crossing so that the refugee crisis does not look as bad to the
international community. So the situation is extremely serious.
And in fact, to one of the things Assistant Secretary Thomas-
Greenfield noted in terms of impact on the region, if I can be
blunt, up until recently, there was a little bit of
gamesmanship. It felt that people wanted to make this almost a
proxy between scoring points with some of the neighbors and the
closer this has gotten to widespread violence, some of those
countries, I think, are switching to saying hey, let us not
make this about each other, let us see this as a genuine crisis
in Burundi that we cannot afford to see take on an ethnic or
regional component. And so in that regard, you are seeing very
serious issues.
However, we have not yet crossed the point of no return and
we believe along with the African Union and others that the
only thing that can prevent this from having an even more
violent end is this inclusive immediate internationally
mediated dialogue that the AU communique have called for.
Ms. Bass. Do you think that the goal of that would be new
elections or the goal of that would be what?
Mr. Perriello. So one of the things we have emphasized to
President Museveni and others is that we don't need to solve
those questions before the talks start, in part because getting
people to the table is release valve to prevent folks from
feeling force is the right way to solve this. However, we would
be the first to admit those are going to be thorny and
complicated questions. The opposition, at least through the
CNARED coalition, there are complications of who should
represent the opposition, initially said we want to guarantee
that President Nkurunziza essentially immediately steps down
and there is a transitional government. They have now said they
would attend talks immediately without preconditions, but no
doubt their position will involve some element of that, the
government position will be quite different.
But the important thing is to get people at the table and
see whether there is path forward that gets Burundi back on a
path, that we have to remember for all the very scary situation
we are in, 15 years of progress, 15 years of progress across
ethnic divisions, a strong neutral military that is held
together, some economic progress. Just a year ago, this is not
the story we were telling about Burundi. And so that is what we
hope is we can find that table that brings people back to that
place.
Ms. Bass. Can you give an update on the situation in the
DRC and Kabila?
Mr. Perriello. So the situation in the DRC----
Ms. Bass. With regard to elections.
Mr. Perriello. Right. Well, as I said if the Government of
Burundi already chose to go down what we think was a very
costly path, the DRC is still at that crossroads.
Ms. Bass. Right.
Mr. Perriello. And it seems that there are some decisions
to be made and certainly there are various moves that have been
made by the government that would suggest heading in the
direction of what is called glissement or slippage, but the
reality is President Kabila has said over and over again I have
never publicly said that I am going to break the constitution.
I have never publicly said that I am going to run for a third
term. We have seen most efforts at getting off a constitutional
path have been successfully resisted by civil society and the
opposition. It is a dynamic moment and I would say the next few
months are going to be crucial. One of the mantras we have had
is you know we need to think about DRC as a 2015 issue, not a
2016 issue.
The decisions, the hope of being able to see this historic
democratic transition at the end of next year has got to be
something that is in the next 2 or 3 months, getting this
agreement from the electoral commission on the calendar,
bringing people together, etcetera. So the situation, the
stakes are quite high. They are far higher, obviously just by
human count than in any other country in the region, but the
good news is we are still in a place where a peaceful
democratic transition could happen.
And I will just say, President Kabila, I think, deserves a
lot of credit. Here is someone who as a very young head of his
faction pushed for peace, got elected twice, has developed
Kinshasa into a modern, very developed city. There is a lot to
be said of building nascent democratic institutions, of going
after at least some of the armed groups. And our hope is that
part of that final legacy will be also to be the first to
peacefully transfer power in DRC.
Ms. Bass. Well, then what is your assessment of the
opponents? Is there organized, stable----
Mr. Perriello. So a few things. One of the things that is
very hopeful about DRC is that you see some of the core pillars
of a strong democracy. You see a relatively free press. You see
a civil society that is independent of all political parties.
You see genuine opposition parties. You see a ruling coalition
that is like a lot of unruly coalitions where even many of the
key leaders in that party have broken from the President on
some key votes. So when we think about it, it is not our job to
figure out who the right candidate is. It is to let Congolese
voices be heard.
What is concerning to us and we spoke about earlier is this
issue about closing political space. There have been some
dramatic steps taken, whether it is use of violence against
protesters or surveilling and trumping up charges against civil
society opponents. These are foundations of whether or not you
will have a strong democracy.
President Kabila told me directly he understands that fair
elections are about the space created in the year before an
election and not just on election day. And we certainly will
continue to work with the government on some of those factors.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. And I would just add that I
am still hopeful about the DRC. We do have a window of
opportunity and we have to continue to engage with President
Kabila and the people around him to get them to do the right
thing. They are at a fork in the road and they could take the
right road or they can take the wrong road. But they still have
a chance to take the right road and we have to keep pushing
them in that direction.
Ms. Bass. Good. Well, finally, I just wanted to mention
that and wanted to thank you, especially Assistant Secretary
for allowing Anne Richard to come and to speak next week when
we do one of our policy breakfasts because I am real concerned
about the refugees. I mean there is an awful lot of attention
on the Syrian refugees, very appropriately, but before there
was the mass exodus from Syria, there was also a tremendous
number of African refugees and I am just concerned that we
might have lost sight of them. Lost sight of them in two ways.
One, I don't know what is happening to them in Europe. But two,
when we make commitments to increase the number of Syrian
refugees, I think we also need to increase the number of
refugees from the continent, especially those that are coming
through Libya, but in general.
So a number of members signed a letter to Secretary Kerry
asking for the numbers to be increased and I don't know if
there is any update on that in that regard, if you wanted to
comment.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. I will let Anne, who is going
to come up and talk to you, give you the details, but I do know
that the African numbers were increased in the coming year. I
don't know where they are coming from, but they have increased
them to 25,000 and I did carry a message from our earlier
discussion back to the Bureau of Population Migration, and
Refugees (PRM), so they are aware that you are interested in
the subject and they are in a better position to discuss it
with you. But I do think they heard your message.
Ms. Bass. Good. She will give us the latest update next
Thursday. Thank you.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. And I will pass that back to
her as well.
Ms. Bass. Okay.
Mr. Perriello. Let me just add one thing on to that because
when I was in the camps in Tanzania, they were some of the
toughest conditions I have seen in an official UNHCR camp in a
long time. And I think PRM and State deserve credit for pushing
hard because all the attention had been on the situation in
Europe. This was a question of trying to get an additional camp
opened because I think there were 140,000 people in a camp that
holds 30,000 at the time. And it was a matter of racing to get
that open before the rainy season. And actually, in this case,
the Tanzanian Government, particularly President Kikwete,
deserves a lot of credit for pushing. There was a lot of
regional resistance out in the west. So not just from the
dollar figure numbers, but really trying to make sure there is
attention in these spaces because the conditions are quite
rough and the people coming over from Burundi now are coming
over increasingly malnourished. Anecdotally, we are hearing
increased incidents of gender-based violence. People are
exiting because people are waiting to leave because of the fear
of violence at the border. And therefore leaving sometimes in
more vulnerable conditions.
Ms. Bass. And I appreciate that. I do just want to be clear
that I was making reference to the ones crossing the ocean,
coming into Europe. And I do think that many countries in
Africa need to be acknowledged for the fact that they have been
absorbing tens of thousands of refugees, but I remember a few
months ago when 800 died crossing the Mediterranean.
Mr. Smith. Thank you. Just a few final questions and of
course, as my colleague says any additional questions. Thank
you for your generosity for staying for long.
Let me just first of all, we did have Anne Richard testify.
I chair the Commission on Security Cooperation in Europe and we
had her testify on Tuesday on Syrian refugees and one of the
biggest takeaways came from the UNHCR Representative Pitterman
who said that the proximate cause for the mass exodus that has
occurred is the 30 percent cut in the World Food Programme and
that people are now to the point that if they don't have food,
they are leaving. They just don't have food. Other necessities
are scarce as well. And I am wondering what that cut has done
to the four countries in the Great Lakes region, if you might
want to speak to that. Because it seems to be catastrophic and
they are doing it, obviously, the World Food Programme is
trying to do a triage and figure out where do they put a
dwindling number of monies.
And what also came across, and this was, again, from the
UNHCR representative, is that they have only gotten 42 percent
of their appeal for the Syrian refugees and the crisis in
general, U.N., and that they are notoriously low on all of
their appeals and that there are a lot of laggards who promise
and never come through, but again, how does that affect the
refugee situation and people who are at risk?
Let me also ask you with regards to the Scaling Up
Nutrition program which we have had hearings on and we had
several hearings on, as a matter of fact. I have introduced a
bill called the Global Food Security Act which puts a heavy
emphasis on the first 1,000 days of life, from conception to
the second birthday, as being the all-important time to get it
right for that child. Of course, you want to see nutrition and
good supplementation for a lifetime, but that is where
cognitive capabilities are either won or lost. That is where
immune systems are built or not built and it mitigates, if not
ends, stunting. And all four of the countries, Burundi in 2013,
DRC in 2013, Rwanda in 2011, Uganda in 2011, all signed up for
the Scaling Up Nutrition. And I wonder if you have any sense,
does that come up in your meetings? Do we push it as a way?
Because it not only makes sure that that unborn child or
newborn child and that child as he or she matriculates into
adulthood are healthier, but it has an unbelievably positive
impact on maternal health and the woman and child or children,
if it is twins, are that much healthier. Your sense on how that
is going, particularly in war-ravaged Burundi where obviously
these programs sometimes are short-circuited.
And finally, on the issue of trafficking, I am chairing a
hearing on November 4 on trafficking, the TIP Report. I was the
prime sponsor of the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, and
frankly, found some flaws in this year's report which are not
reflected in the narrative, but are reflected in the
designations. I don't think any of the four countries that we
are considering today were wrongly designated. Burundi is Tier
3. DRC is Tier 2 Watch List. Rwanda and Uganda are Tier 2.
But the Tier 3, I am wondering especially, Mr. Perriello,
how often does that issue come up? Do you get support not only
from the Embassy and the designated people at our Embassies
that deal with TIP issues, but does the TIP office itself
provide you with updates and guidance? And what has been the
response from the governments in question? Because it seems to
me sex and labor trafficking are among the most horrific human
rights abuses on the face of the earth. Burundi is Tier 3 for
both sex and labor designations and I just wonder if you might
want to elaborate on how that plays into your efforts, both of
your efforts in these countries?
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. Let me start with the
questions related to refugees and the impact of WFP's
decreases. It is not in my portfolio, but it affects my
portfolio. If affects the people of Africa. And it is across
the board. It is not just in the four countries in the Great
Lakes. We are seeing the impact in the refugee camps in Kenya.
We are seeing the impact in the refugees camps in Ethiopia. And
then worse, we are seeing a huge, huge impact on the Ethiopian
population in terms of the possibility of a famine. So this is
a very, very serious issue for us. It has a little bit to do
with climate change, but it also has a lot to do with politics.
It has a lot to do with political stability. It has a lot to do
with government policies. And this is where I think we can make
a difference in terms of getting governments to develop
policies that target their communities and place agriculture on
the top of their agenda in terms of building the capacity of
people to produce their own food so that they are not dependent
upon food aid.
I don't have anything on the malnutrition issue that you
raise. If you don't mind, I would love to get back to you on
that. That has not come up in any of my meetings with any of
the governments. But I am sure my USAID colleagues hear it
regularly.
Mr. Smith. But again, if you could make it part of that. It
seems to me that people sign up robustly with all kinds of good
intentions which for whatever reason, different priorities,
maybe apathy, and this program gets put on a shelf at least
partially. And again, I don't know of a single program that I
have ever seen that has done more and can do more to enhance
the life, the well-being, and the mortality, the actual
survival of individuals, children, babies, unborn babies, and
then their mothers than this one.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. And I see this in terms of a
political issue as well. And then on TIP, I had 50 meetings in
New York during the ``speed meeting'' exercise that we went
through and for every single country that was downgraded or not
upgraded on TIP, I raised this as an issue. I will use the
example of Comoros where there was an issue and they wanted to
talk about how to address it and what they needed to do to
address it so that they don't get downgraded even further. So
we have found among African governments while they push back,
they also take it very, very seriously because they know that
we take it seriously.
So again, it is not always the best of situations, but I
think governments are more and more taking it seriously. We
hear a lot of arguments that this is our culture, you don't
understand. It is not that we are trafficking in children. We
are taking children from the village so that we can educate
them, but you see no signs of the education.
So we do have this discussion on a regular basis with
governments. And we work very closely with the TIP office to
look at how we can help governments address this because our
ultimate goal is to stop trafficking and to help governments
address the issue and hold people accountable.
Mr. Perriello. I would echo everything she said on TIP. I
can't really be objective about it since I have been a big
supporter of the program when I was on your side of things, but
it certainly comes up with great frequency.
On your point of UNHCR and the 42 percent pledge, I will
just note that at the time that I was in the camps in Tanzania
they had only gotten 17 percent of their pledge for Burundian
refugees. That has gone up a little bit with some help from the
United States.
One thing I will just say in general with a number of
things you are saying, and this takes me back a little bit to
my previous job running Quadrennial Diplomacy and Development
Review, is the attempt to use metrics in all of these
situations. So whether it is WFP cuts or other things, I think
we are trying to get better at some predictive analysis of
being able to see when there is a drought in country X, how
that is going to be affecting things 6 months, 12 months, 18
months out, and I think there is a lot that is useful in coming
together.
One of the reasons we are still where we are in Burundi, I
believe, is not just 15 years of investment on post-conflict
transition, on reconciliation, on other things, but the
Atrocity Prevention Board and other efforts flagged this a year
out, 1\1/2\ years out, as meeting a bunch of indicators. It is
where we are with DRC now. So I think all of this is part of
that move.
And then last of all, I think to the point of some of the
programs you are talking about, it might just be a moment to
say we have spent 20 years as a country greatly invested in
this region in terms of humanitarian support, as well as
development, as well as security support. And as Linda
mentioned earlier, underneath a lot of this is good governance.
And we have done so much to get up to this point where there is
a chance to turn the page where the dynamics are primarily
determined by the region's future and not its past and some of
that is the personalities involved and the dynamics. But
underneath so many of these programs is a question of good
governance.
Even with people who are desperately poor in Burundi, we
cannot send that money to a government that is using it,
funneling it in a different direction or not using it well or
not being transparent. So that is why I think we come back to
this idea that I think President Obama, with support from the
Hill, has had a really good policy in focusing on constitutions
mattering, rule of law mattering, term limits mattering. We are
offering our advice to our countries in the region and we
believe that his is an opportunity to make a real difference in
those areas.
Mr. Smith. One last thought before you leave, Ms. Bass,
CRS's Sean Callahan testified on Tuesday and made a very
important point that I have heard many times. You, I know I am
sure, have heard it many times before, too. And that is the
ability of faith-based groups, not only to be extraordinarily
flexible and get more push, more outcome for the buck, but also
the entre, the accessibility, the ability to do something in
regions or places of conflict that perhaps other people
wouldn't be able to do it because it happens to be a priest or
a pastor of some kind or a bishop.
And I am wondering if you are finding in Burundi, for
example, or any of these other countries, if the faith-based
groups have placed a significant role and perhaps there is even
a reason or cause for an enhanced role to make sure that the
food, the medicines, whatever it might be gets from us and from
other donors and the government and U.N., UNICEF, whatever it
might be, to the intended recipient.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. I would say the faith-based
NGOs, assistance groups, have been extraordinary and very, very
supportive across the board in Africa. In the case of Burundi,
you have a President who claims to be a believer. He preaches
his beliefs and we need more voices in the faith-based
community here in the United States to talk to him, to let him
know that some of the things that he is doing are not
acceptable and that it causes us to doubt his faith. People are
dying, people are being killed and it is happening on his watch
and he has a lot of friends here who are supportive of him and
we would encourage that he gets some messages from that
community to do the right thing for the people of Burundi.
Mr. Smith. Mr. Clawson.
Mr. Clawson. No one likes the man or woman that comes in
late and then talks a whole lot, right? Not great. Not good
behavior. We always get multi-scheduled around here. You all
know that already, right? So the fact that we come late or some
folks, I don't know if Mark was here or not, that please don't
take that as a personal reflection.
Mr. Smith. As a former member, I am sure Tom understands
that completely.
Mr. Clawson. You know the deal, right? And you know, you
all are competing with Secretary Clinton, too, so you have
tough competition today.
Mr. Perriello. We were sure all those cameras were for this
hearing.
Mr. Clawson. You are a smart guy. I wanted to make sure
that I showed up for several reasons. Number one, I have a lot
of respect for the chairman and the ranking member and you
learn that this is a ``got you'' environment. If you ever say
anything wrong, they got you, right? And I think this
subcommittee has been one place where there is a little less of
that. And they are trying to pay attention to an area of the
world where in my view clearly we have not historically paid
enough attention. So first thing is to show respect there.
Secondly, appreciation for what you all do to toil in and
area or dedicated to an area that is not glamorous, but sure
needs our attention as well. And to the extent that we can,
resources which leads me to the third point and that is
anything that I can do. This region of the world, your
intersection of lots of humanitarian problems, ecological
problems, and a big watershed all at the same place, right? And
so we can't forget about it. And if I take too much more time
after not being here for almost 1\1/2\ hours, I think it would
be a little bit impolite. So with that, I express my
appreciation to what you all are doing. And I say to the chair
anything that I can do in this effort, of course, we stand
ready. I yield back.
Mr. Smith. Thank you, Mr. Clawson. Anything else you would
like to say before we close?
Mr. Perriello. I just want to add one quick note which was
to your point about faith-based groups. I obviously agree, but
the other group that I think can play a very constructive role
in the region is the private sector. And in addition to looking
at these democratic transitions, there is a tremendous amount
of entrepreneurial activity for the small agricultural
entrepreneur as well as for very large corporations. And one of
the things we have heard a lot from the private sector is we
need to get through these democratic transitions, get through
that stability threshold to be able to really see the economic
opportunity for folks. So that is another sector we are just
engaging I wanted to mention.
Mr. Clawson. Could I jump in real quick? Spending my whole
adult life in the private sector in the multi-national
environment, we did business in South Africa, but nowhere else
because we were worried about private property rights. And
private business can always help in under-developed area
because particularly if they have a little bit of enlightenment
at the top so that all stakeholders mean something including
employees, communities, etcetera. But you can never go to
shareholders and say you may lose everything here because they
don't respect, in this particular country or region, private
property rights, right?
I know you are with me on this. Anything I can do in that
regard, any help, if we can make the case for one of these
countries that private property rights are respected, then the
idea of exterior investment for the benefit of all stakeholders
becomes lots easier to make.
For those of you in the audience that are from these
countries, it scares private investors even for an export-based
investment. It scares us to look at something like that because
we are not sure that our private property rights, meaning our
investment, and therefore our shareholders, would be protected
if we set it up. I think there are plenty of investors that
don't mind sharing with all stakeholders, including community
and labor, folks that work. But you can't lose your investment.
Does that make sense? So anything--we can take this offline,
but any time I can help you all, I am on Chris' subcommittee
here. Any time I can help in that regard, very, very interested
in doing so.
Ambassador Thomas-Greenfield. That is a strong message to
give any time you have any contact with African leaders, they
all want American investors. I hear it on a regular basis. I
have participated in a meeting by the Initiative for Global
Development's Frontier 100 Forum on business leadership in
Africa that Secretary Albright and Colin Powell chaired
yesterday. We talked about what would encourage American
investors to go into Africa and what discourages them. And that
point is the biggest point.
Mr. Clawson. This is the biggest point. And without this,
the idea that Africa can self-develop in my mind is a long
putt. And our intentions can be as wonderful as we want them to
be. In our facility in South Africa, the government told us
that we didn't have any choice but to sell them a certain
percentage of the equity. Now I can do that as CEO of the
company, but imagine if I tell my shareholders I am going to
build a second factory in that country. I would get laughed out
of the board room, right?
This message, I think you and I are in violent agreement
here, any time I can help you make that pitch because that will
attract investment because there is a lot of good about these
areas in terms of investment prospects as well I think. Thank
you.
Mr. Smith. Thank you so very much for your testimony, your
leadership, and look forward to working with you going forward.
The hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:33 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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