    [House Hearing, 114 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                            HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES BY
                             VIETNAMESE AUTHORITIES

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                     SUBCOMMITTEE ON AFRICA, GLOBAL HEALTH,
                            GLOBAL HUMAN RIGHTS, AND
                          INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS

                                     OF THE

                          COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                                 JUNE 17, 2015

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 114-84

                                   __________

            Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/
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                          COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                     EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman
    CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey     ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
    ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida         BRAD SHERMAN, California
    DANA ROHRABACHER, California         GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
    STEVE CHABOT, Ohio                   ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
    JOE WILSON, South Carolina           GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
    MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas             THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
    TED POE, Texas                       BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
    MATT SALMON, Arizona                 KAREN BASS, California
    DARRELL E. ISSA, California          WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
    TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania             DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
    JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina          ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
    MO BROOKS, Alabama                   AMI BERA, California
    PAUL COOK, California                ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California
    RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas            GRACE MENG, New York
    SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania            LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
    RON DeSANTIS, Florida                TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
    MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina         JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
    TED S. YOHO, Florida                 ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
    CURT CLAWSON, Florida                BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
    SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee
    REID J. RIBBLE, Wisconsin
    DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan
    LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
    DANIEL DONOVAN, New York

         Amy Porter, Chief of Staff      Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director

                   Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director
                                     ------

        Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights, and
                          International Organizations

                   CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey, Chairman
    MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina         KAREN BASS, California
    CURT CLAWSON, Florida                DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
    SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee          AMI BERA, California
    DANIEL DONOVAN, New York

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                                   WITNESSES

    Mr. Nguyen Van Hai (Dieu Cay), writer, Free Journalists Club of
      Vietnam........................................................     6
    Mrs. Doan Thi Hong-Anh (wife of a torture victim)................    11
    Nguyen Dinh Thang, Ph.D., executive director, Boat People SOS....    16
    The Reverend Nguyen Manh Hung, Vietnam Interfaith Council........    26

              LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

    Mr. Nguyen Van Hai (Dieu Cay): Prepared statement................     9
    Mrs. Doan Thi Hong-Anh: Prepared statement.......................    14
    Nguyen Dinh Thang, Ph.D.: Prepared statement.....................    19
    The Reverend Nguyen Manh Hung: Prepared statement................    28

                                    APPENDIX

    Hearing notice...................................................    40
    Hearing minutes..................................................    41
    The Honorable Christopher H. Smith, a Representative in Congress
      from the State of New Jersey, and chairman, Subcommittee on
      Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights, and International
      Organizations:
      Photographs of sheds for storing funeral objects and victims of
        associated violence..........................................    42
      Photographs of police brutality against people of faith........    47

                 HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES BY VIETNAMESE AUTHORITIES

                                  ----------

                            WEDNESDAY, JUNE 17, 2015

                           House of Representatives,

                     Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health,

             Global Human Rights, and International Organizations,

                         Committee on Foreign Affairs,

                                Washington, DC.

        The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:21 p.m., in
    room 2200 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Christopher H.
    Smith (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
        Mr. Smith. The subcommittee will come to order, and let me
    begin first by expressing my apologies for being late in
    convening the hearing.
        There has been a number of crises today. One of them is in
    Ghana. As you know, this subcommittee is Africa, Global Health,
    Global Human Rights, and International Organizations and they
    have had serious floods. So we have been working with the
    Ambassador from Ghana to try to ensure that sufficient funding
    for those victims is provided.
        So I pushed back the schedule a bit so I express my
    apologies to our witnesses as well as to our friends in the
    audience. I am truly sorry.
        Let me begin with some opening comments, and Karen Bass is
    on her way as well as some of the other members of the
    subcommittee.
        I would like to begin by recognizing the distinguished
    Vietnamese-American leaders who are visiting Washington to
    discuss with Members of Congress issues of concern to the
    community including issues of freedom and human rights in
    Vietnam.
        Our former colleague, Anh Cao, is here. Anh was the first
    Vietnamese-American to be elected to Congress, did yeoman's
    work in Boat People SOS, as Dr. Thang notes so well.
        I met him many, many years ago, a very distinguished Member
    of Congress. There was no greater advocate for the people of
    Vietnam past, present or, I would say respectfully, into the
    future--certainly, past and present than Anh was.
        He was tenacious on human rights in general but when it
    came to Vietnam no one cared more and did more on this side as
    opposed to our witnesses in civil society.
        So I want to thank you for that leadership. Also Ambassador
    Joseph Rees, who used to be staff director and has served in a
    number of capacities at the U.S. Department of State.
        Ambassador Rees, as I think many of you know, was our first
    Ambassador to East Timor when that nation became an independent
    nation, and frankly, it was Joseph working with Dr. Thang in
    the mid-1990s when the boat people were being denied access to
    the United States and were housed--is probably the euphemism
    for the way they were being treated--they were incarcerated
    throughout all of Asia including in a prison in Hong Kong and
    were being forcibly repatriated.
        It was Joseph, especially as the former general counsel for
    the INS, who helped lead the way along with Dr. Thang.
        We had four important pivotal hearings about the
    Comprehensive Plan of Action put forward by the Clinton
    administration to forcibly repatriate Vietnamese to Vietnam,
    many of whom would go to reeducation camps and to prison.
        And as a result of that, I offered an amendment on the
    floor from what we gleaned from all of that information and we
    put a stop, a tourniquet, to that terrible forcible
    repatriation.
        And the ROVR Program then came into existence and something
    on the order of 20,000 Vietnamese made their way to the United
    States. It is because of that and if it wasn't for Dr. Thang
    and Ambassador Rees, that would not have happened. So I want to
    recognize them and thank them for that extraordinary
    leadership.
        The Vietnamese-American community is celebrating its 40th
    year in the United States--those who came after the fall of
    Saigon, and of course we all remember the helicopters and the
    last few who made it.
        My own in-laws are Vietnamese-American; my son is married
    to a Vietnamese-American young lady who is about to have her
    second child. They left during the 1975 exodus. They were the
    lucky ones who were not part of the boat people exodus.
        And I just want to say how much all of us in Congress, both
    sides of the aisle, so deeply respect the contributions that
    have been made by the Vietnamese Americans to this country.
        Very, very strong patriots, men and women who are
    hardworking have really made their mark on this country and
    have cared so deeply for their families and for their relatives
    and, of course, for all other Americans. Thank you for that. It
    is very, very important.
        This subcommittee has held numerous hearings on human
    rights in Vietnam over the years and we have discussed a range
    of concerns from restrictions on religious freedom, to the
    jailing and torture of dissidents, from sex and labor
    trafficking, to the censorship of the press and the Internet.
        The Vietnamese Government and Communist Party continue to
    be one of the worst abusers of human rights. We may want to
    sweep that reality under the table and many do, sadly. We may
    want to paper over it by promises of security cooperation and
    trade deals.
        But that reality stares us in the face and requires us to
    ask whether U.S. policy really serves the people of Vietnam,
    people who want our liberties and our freedoms as much as our
    trade.
        The U.S. Government must continue to press the Vietnamese
    Government on truly fundamental human rights issues, not only
    in human rights dialogues, which very often are dead-end
    streets, maybe they ought to be done, but in all meetings with
    Vietnamese officials, especially the trade meetings and that
    means that the highest levels from the United States President
    on down.
        It can't be a sidebar issue. It can't be something that's
    in the appendix that is brought up in a cursory way so the
    President can say, ``Oh, I raised human rights.'' He needs to
    raise it, especially with the upcoming visit, with specificity.
        Talk about individuals who are being incarcerated for their
    faith or because of their democracy activism and say we want
    these people released. The President needs to do that and he
    needs to do it when he meets with the head of party coming very
    shortly from Vietnam.
        Sixty-six percent of the Vietnamese population is under 35
    and some don't even remember the war except from history and
    from news reels. They want their lives to look like those of
    their Vietnamese cousins in the U.S., in Australia, as well as
    in Canada.
        Our policies cannot be directed at the Vietnamese elite in
    the Communist Party but must focus on the people of Vietnam.
    What are in their best interests? Not the ruling clique who
    suppress.
        They understand that if the U.S. sides with the Vietnamese
    Government, they will only receive crumbs from the Communist
    Party's table.
        Our economic, security, and freedom interests must be
    linked. The Vietnamese Government needs U.S. security
    cooperation and economic benefits more than the U.S. needs
    Vietnam.
        We have leverage to bring about concrete changes in Vietnam
    and we must not give up, ignore, trivialize, belittle, or
    squander that leverage.
        If human rights issues are not explicitly linked to our
    economic and security interests, we risk having discussions on
    trade and defense moving forward while human rights conditions
    go in the opposite direction, backwards.
        Trade between the U.S. to Vietnam has exponentially
    expanded since Vietnam was granted normal trade relations in
    2000.
        If this expansion is to continue under the Trans-Pacific
    Partnership, I would say, for full disclosure, voted against
    the fast track legislation, believing that human rights have to
    be a centerpiece.
        And I have gone to the so-called secret room and I read the
    key chapters. Don't count on human rights being enforced,
    including labor rights, if the TPP goes into effect as
    currently written. It is nice language but there is no
    enforcement power contained in that document called the TPP.
        Let me point out to my colleagues that when the State
    Department removed Vietnam from the list of Countries of
    Particular Concern as a gesture of good will, which I opposed
    in 2006, we once again saw backsliding.
        Promises were made. Ambassador Hanford, the Ambassador for
    International Religious Freedom, told me and so many others
    that there were deliverables that the Vietnamese Government was
    committed to doing. None of them happened.
        As a matter of fact, as soon as they got into the WTO, once
    we lifted our objection there was a snap back and many of the
    people that I had met on one of my many trips there were all
    rearrested and put back in incarceration.
        According to the United States Commission for International
    Religious Freedom's annual report, and I quote a pertinent
    part,

            ``The Vietnamese Government continues to control all
            religious activities through law and administrative
            oversight, restrict severely independent religious
            practice, and represses individuals and religious
            groups it views as challenging its authority. . . .''

    I agree with the commission's conclusion that Vietnam should be
    designated immediately a Country of Particular Concern because
    of its egregious record of suppression and repression of human
    rights.
        In Vietnam, I have met courageous religious leaders during
    trips there including Father Ly, the Venerable Thich Quang Do
    and yet they remain wrongly detained today.
        There are disturbing reports that Father Ly is suffering
    poor health. There are over 150 prisoners of conscience in
    Vietnam. We should not forget them. We need to use our leverage
    to try to compel their release.
        Since some have made the case that Vietnam has made
    progress in recent years because they signed the U.N.
    Convention Against Torture, I just want to say it is all about
    deeds. Anybody can sign a convention. Anybody can put it on
    paper and say, ``We are going to do this.'' We want deeds and
    the deeds are not there.
        Let me also make a point that on trafficking there is no
    doubt--I am the author--again, Ambassador Rees remembers so
    well because he worked so effectively on the Trafficking
    Victims Protection Act--if there was ever a country that meets
    the definition of a Tier 3 country, an egregious violator, with
    significant problem and is not taking significant actions to
    meet minimum standards prescribed by the TVPA of 2000 and its
    follow-on authorizations, Vietnam is it. Both on the labor
    trafficking point of view as well as from the sex trafficking
    point of view where Dr. Thang has testified to that many times
    in the past.
        I have reintroduced the Vietnam Human Rights Act. It has
    passed the House six separate Congresses. We are hoping to have
    it pass again.
        Maybe the seventh time will be the charm, and the Senate
    will take up the bill and President Obama, who right now is
    against it, will reverse that and support the legislation.
        I would like to yield to my good friend and colleague for
    any comments that he might have, the gentleman from California,
    and then we will go to our witnesses.
        Mr. Lowenthal. I am Congressman Alan Lowenthal. I am here
    and I want to thank Chairman Smith for having me join the
    subcommittee today and I also want to applaud the chairman for
    his leadership role in pointing out and drawing attention to
    the human rights abuses in Vietnam.
        He has been the leader in the United States Congress and I
    am pleased to have joined him on the legislation on human
    rights as an original co-sponsor too.
        I also want to thank and express my deepest appreciation to
    the witnesses, some of them who I have worked with, who I know,
    who have traveled here, who have so bravely shown the spotlight
    on the abuses of the Vietnamese Government.
        There is no denying the fact that Vietnam is an oppressive
    one-party state that has no respect for the rights of its own
    citizens.
        The Vietnamese Government jails those who speak out, who
    advocate for the right to form independent trade unions, for a
    free and fair press, for freedom of religion, for the ability
    to associate. This is really what the Vietnamese Government
    does.
        You know, last week following up on what the chairman said
    we had a very important series of votes in the House on United
    States trade policy and specifically on whether to grant Trade
    Promotion Authority to negotiate the Trans-Pacific Partnership
    to the President of the United States.
        I opposed this bill. I opposed granting TPA for a number of
    reasons but the one major reason is, and I did it in part
    because I really also want to protect American workers and
    including American workers that will be impacted by what takes
    place in Vietnam, but the major concern that I have in the
    trade agreements is why we are rewarding a country like Vietnam
    which engages in bad behavior at this moment and that we are
    now granting them this.
        I think this is the inappropriate way to do it. Instead of
    working now at this moment to release prisoners of conscience,
    to end restrictions on racial practice to allow labor
    organizing in advance of Congress considering the TPA that is
    what if Vietnam really wanted to do would be doing.
        No, Vietnam has doubled down on its bad behavior. You know,
    I visited Vietnam last month with Chairman Salmon on our Asia
    Subcommittee in our delegation and I specifically took every
    opportunity including some of the other members of our
    delegation--Chairman Salmon and also Mr. Emmer from Minnesota--
    to press the Vietnamese Government in respect to the rights of
    Vietnamese citizens.
        We also met with human rights activists including Nguyen
    Tien Trung and the patriarch, Thich Quang Do. We left and the
    Vietnamese Government said, ``Oh, we are going to work with
    you.''
        I was so disappointed and, frankly, absolutely shocked when
    just a few days after returning to the United States I learned
    that Nguyen Chi Tuyen, an anti-Chinese pro-environmental
    activist was badly beaten by five plainclothes police officers
    in Hanoi.
        Incidents like this only serve to further call into
    question why the United States should be working to reward
    Vietnam and again, as I point out, in the face of its bad
    behavior.
        I look forward to hearing from the witnesses. I hope all my
    colleagues in the House will take notice of what is occurring
    in this hearing today as we continue to consider Trade
    Promotion Authority and Vietnam's participation in the TPP.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you, Congressman Lowenthal.
        And I would like to begin now with our very distinguished
    witnesses, beginning first with Nguyen Van Hai of the Free
    Journalist Club of Vietnam, writing under the pen name Dieu
    Cay.
        Mr. Hai is one of Vietnam's pioneering citizen journalists.
    Through his blog he has exposed government corruption, called
    for freedom of expression, and was one of the first Vietnamese
    to criticize China's annexation of the Spratly Islands.
        He was arrested while calling for a boycott of the Beijing
    Olympic torch relay and was originally convicted on trumped-up
    charges of tax evasion. In September 2012, he was sentenced to
    12 years but was released to exile in October 2014.
        We will then hear from Ms. Doan Thi Hong Anh, wife of
    torture victim Nguyen Thanh Nam who was tortured and
    subsequently died of his injuries in what has become known as
    the Con Dau massacre in July 2010.
        She is knowledgeable about the events at Con Dau, which she
    witnessed, but she will also speak to religious persecution
    going on in different parts of the country.
        In order for her husband to be buried she was pressured by
    the government to admit that he died of natural causes.
        Subsequently, she and her two children were constantly
    harassed and intimidated by local security agents and
    subsequently they had to flee to Thailand for safety.
        They were recognized as refugees by the UNHCR and recently
    resettled in the United States, and I would note
    parenthetically that Anh ``Joseph'' Cao convened hearings on
    Con Dau that were truly heartbreaking to hear how the Communist
    dictatorship and the bullies surrounded people, even during a
    funeral, because they wanted the property and they didn't want
    the church to retain possession of that property.
        It is just a another terrible indication of what
    dictatorship is all about.
        We will then hear from Dr. Nguyen Dinh Thang. Dr. Thang,
    who I have known for almost 25 years came to the U.S. as a
    refugee from Vietnam in 1979.
        After earning his Ph.D. he began volunteering for Boat
    People SOS in 1988. Now serving as head of Boat People SOS, Dr.
    Thang has worked for the past 25 years to resettle tens of
    thousands of boat people and he has also worked very hard on
    the trafficking issue and has provided this subcommittee
    pivotal information about not only what happens with trafficked
    people in the United States but brought a very specific case to
    our attention, which we raised via a hearing, that occurred in
    Russia. So I want to thank him for that very fine work that he
    has done.
        Then we will hear from the Reverend Nguyen Manh Hung, who
    is pastor of the Binh Tan Mennonite Church of Vietnam and a
    member of the Interfaith Council of Vietnam.
        He is active in promoting religious freedom, campaigning
    against human rights violations, and defending victims of
    corruption, especially those involved in government land
    seizures.
        He is routinely harassed and threatened by the police and
    recently his wife and children have been subjected to similar
    threats as well. His congregation is also under constant threat
    and harassment from officials.
        I would like to now begin with Mr. Hai and then each of our
    witnesses will follow.

       STATEMENT OF MR. NGUYEN VAN HAI (DIEU CAY), WRITER, FREE
                      JOURNALISTS CLUB OF VIETNAM

        [The following testimony was delivered through an
    interpreter.]
        Mr. Hai. Members of Congress, I am honored to be here today
    to present the issue of human rights in Vietnam.
        Shortly before leaving Vietnam, my fellow prisoners
    entrusted me to relay their cries for help to the international
    community, to help the international community understand that
    the persecution of prisoners of conscience in Vietnam is
    systemic, to lay bare the deceit of the Vietnamese authorities
    who would commit to revise Vietnam's laws in order to
    participate in international trade agreements but do not
    implement such laws.
        So the first thing I wanted to discuss is freedom of the
    press. All media in Vietnam is in the hands of the Communist
    regime. The people don't have a platform to raise their voice.
        People do not dare to speak their views simply because any
    disagreement with the ruling party can get you arrested under
    vague laws such as Articles 258, 88, and 79 of the criminal
    code.
        A conviction under one of these statutes can result in a
    dozen years in prison. It is these vague laws that allow
    authorities to arrest and imprison anyone with differing
    opinions and to maintain their dictatorship.
        My case is a testament to the suppression of human rights
    in Vietnam when I was sentenced to over 10 years in prison
    simply for peacefully expressing my political views. Only when
    people are able to speak freely, are free to express their
    opinions without fear of repression can society change for the
    better.
        Hence, we need to pressure the Communist authorities to
    abolish the absurd laws and to return freedom of the press and
    freedom of expression to the people of Vietnam.
        The second issue is prisoners of conscience. I spent 6
    years and 6 months in 11 Communist prisons so I know that the
    prisons of Vietnam are administered by circulars and
    regulations, not by laws.
        For example, Circular 37 of the Ministry of Public Security
    deprives prisoners of the rights prescribed in the criminal
    procedures code. Based on Circular 37, Vietnam's public
    security has established a series of prisons within prisons to
    detain political prisoners. Placed in solitary confinement for
    months, those prisoners refused to admit guilt, leaving many to
    go on hunger strikes to protest.
        Recently, Ms. Ta Phong Tan, a member of the Club of Free
    Journalists, went on a hunger strike to protest the abuse of
    political prisoners by officials of Prison Camp Five in Thanh
    Hoa Province.
        Circular 37 of the Ministry of Public Security is really an
    instrument to punish these dissenters outside the legal code.
    As I mentioned, prisoners are deprived of rights stated in the
    law, especially when prisoners who wish to submit a complaint
    must first go through the jailers who, of course, never forward
    on the complaints but instead take revenge on the prisoners.
        Oversight bodies and Vietnamese law do not provide inmates
    the opportunity to exercise their right to protest as
    prescribed in the criminal procedures code.
        To ensure basic rights for all prisoners, to prevent
    political prisoners, as well as prisoners of criminal offenses
    from being treated like animals, the Vietnamese Government must
    abolish Circular 37 of the Ministry of Public Security and
    revise the criminal procedures code in accordance with
    international standards.
        I earnestly call upon governments and international
    organizations to pressure the Vietnamese authorities to, first,
    abolish vague laws such as Articles 258, 88, and 79 of the
    criminal code, Decree 72 of the Prime Minister and Circular 37
    of MPS.
        Secondly, revise domestic laws to be in compliance with
    international conventions to which Vietnam is a signatory, and
    third, release all political prisoners. I would like to submit
    a list of prisoners of conscience in need of emergency
    assistance.
        They are Ta Phong Tan, Tran Huynh Duy Thuc, Nguyen Huu
    Vinh, Bui Thi Minh Hang, Tran Vu Anh Binh, Vo Minh Tri (Viet
    Khang), Nguyen Dang Minh Man, Ho Bich Khuong, Doan Van Vuon,
    Doan Dinh Nam, Doan Huy Chuong, Nguyen Hoang Quoc Hung, Dang
    Xuan Dieu, Ho Duc Hoa.
        Thank you for your attention.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Hai follows:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                  ----------

        Mr. Smith. Thank you so very much, Mr. Hai.
        We have been joined by Chairman Dana Rohrabacher, also of
    California. Any comments?
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Let me just say that we are facing one of
    these decisions and I am happy to hear and see you here to help
    guide us in this decision because we are being told, like we
    were told with China that if we just give certain economic
    status to a country, even though that government is dictatorial
    and abuses its own people that by giving them the same type of
    economic status that you would give to a free country that it
    will lead to reform and lead to democratization and
    liberalization.
        I have just come from a hearing just a moment ago about
    China and there has been no political reform in China, and from
    what this gentleman has just told us there has been no
    political reform in Vietnam. Yet, we have been opening up the
    floodgates.
        I want to make sure that I get your advice as to what we
    should be doing about expanding our economic openings to
    Vietnam and America and whether that will help or whether that
    extra wealth will bolster the strength of those who oppress the
    people.
        And in China, it has certainly not weakened the hold on the
    people of China. So with that said, Mr. Chairman, I have
    appreciated working with you over the years on issues--human
    rights issues in Vietnam but throughout the world and
    Congressman Lowenthal and I have decided that we are going to
    be partners in a lot of very important things and helping
    people in Vietnam and elsewhere, for their human rights is
    right on the top of that list.
        So thank you all very much.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, Chairman Rohrabacher.
        I would like to--Mr. Clawson, do you have any opening
    comments?
        Mr. Clawson. I think Chairman Rohrabacher has it exactly
    right. What goes on in the world over and over again is that
    folks use our marketplace to industrialize and to modernize
    their economies and their infrastructures and then sometimes
    some of that flows through to the folks that are making Nike
    shoes and electronics and toys and so their lives are better,
    freer and there is more social justice and human rights. And
    sometimes it doesn't work out that way, correct, Congressman?
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Well, I haven't seen it work in the latter
    yet so----
        Mr. Clawson. You are not going back far enough. I also am
    interested. I am very much into free and fair trade but I think
    everybody needs to share in that wealth and in the benefits
    derived thereof and therefore hearing from folks like you all
    and what you have to say about that I think is an important day
    here on Capitol Hill.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you very much.
        I would like to now introduce Ms. Doan, if you could
    proceed.

     STATEMENT OF MRS. DOAN THI HONG-ANH (WIFE OF A TORTURE VICTIM)

        [The following testimony was delivered through an
    interpreter.]
        Mrs. Doan. Honorable Congressmen, ladies and gentlemen, my
    name is Doan Thi Hong Anh, the widow of Mr. Nguyen Thanh Nam,
    the Con Dau parishioner who was tortured to death that you have
    been informed of in the U.S. Congress hearing August 18, 2010.
        After the brutal police crackdown at the Con Dau parish
    cemetery on May 4, 2010, and especially after the painful death
    of my husband by the torture of the local militia, the
    government found every way to prevent me from telling the truth
    about the real cause of my husband's death.
        I had to close all doors and hid in my house for months
    before finding a way to escape to Thailand to protect my
    children and my own life.
        We were accepted with refugee status and we settled in the
    U.S. less than a year ago. I am honored to be here today to say
    thank you to the Congress and the United States Government for
    the concern and support for my family and my parish in Con Dau
    in the last 5 years during the fight for justice and protect
    our parish assistance.
        It is because of the strong voice from the Congress,
    especially from you, Mr. Chairman, has brought my family and
    more than 100 victims from Con Dau to freedom the last 2 years.
        Your work and your efforts have changed many lives
    including thousands of Vietnam refugees in other humanitarian
    programs that you sponsored over the years. You are truly the
    champion of human rights. You are our hero and we are deeply
    grateful for that.
        The religious persecution policy of the Communist
    Government of Vietnam was exposed very obviously with the
    persecution in Con Dau. They have used every means from
    intimidation, harassment, beatings, torture, imprison to land
    expropriation by force to take over the land and wipe out
    historical and all-Catholic parish.
        I have witnessed and myself a victim of so many times being
    intimidated by government officials to sign an agreement to
    move out without leaving any chance to stay around the church
    to continue with our religious activity.
        Con Dau is only one of hundreds of religious persecutions
    that have happened in Vietnam, especially in the far away
    areas. I would like to give some examples.
        In the Diocese of Kontum, central Vietnam, on January 17,
    2015 the government ordered to dismantle the temporary chapel
    of the Dak Jak Parish and expel the chaplain from the parish of
    more than 5,000 parishioners. In March of this year, the
    government of Dak To District campaigned to dismantle 22
    temporary chapels in the district also with the reason of not
    being recognized by the government.
        In the Diocese of Hung Hoa, northern Vietnam, the province
    government of Lai Chau, Dien Bien, and Son La in the last 70
    years under Communism never allowed the establishment of any
    chapel at any mission station in the provinces or permit
    priests to come celebrate Mass per the demand of thousands of
    Catholics in this area.
        In the Diocese of Vin, a diocese with more than 500,000
    Catholics in central Vietnam the Parishes of My Yen, Tam Toa,
    Con Cuong and many other mission stations in the province of
    Quang Binh, Nghe are still facing many difficulties in the
    religious activity because of the nonrecognition of the local
    government.
        In reality, the freedom of religion in Vietnam has not been
    respected. That is a statement from the U.N. Special Rapporteur
    Heiner Bielefeldt after his visit in Vietnam July 2014.
        The government has covered up or turned away from multiple
    violations in many places. In summary, I call you to continue
    raising your concern and pressure the Vietnamese Government to
    respect religious freedom. Strong U.S. and international
    pressure is necessary and makes a difference as in the case of
    Con Dau.
        Con Dau Parish is still standing even though battered and
    reduced in size after so many persecutions and forced
    expropriation. The decision of resolving the Con Dau issue is
    still on the hand of Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung since
    September of last year.
        I call on you to request the Prime Minister resolve the
    issue reasonably and fairly. I also call on the Congress to
    pass the Vietnam Human Rights Act and incorporate human rights
    conditions into the TPP negotiation with Vietnam.
        I call on the United States State Department to designate
    Vietnam as CPC to force them to improve human rights generally
    in order for our 90 million fellow countrymen to have the
    opportunity to live as a human being and enjoy freedom like me
    today.
        Thank you. God bless America.
        [The prepared statement of Mrs. Doan follows:]

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                                  ----------

        Mr. Smith. Ms. Doan, thank you so very much. And again, our
    deepest condolences to you for your loss and know that our
    prayers, all of us, feel so much for you and for all of those
    who have suffered in that wonderful Catholic parish.
        Dr. Thang.

    STATEMENT OF NGUYEN DINH THANG, PH.D., EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BOAT
                               PEOPLE SOS

        Mr. Thang. Mr. Chairman and distinguished members of the
    subcommittee, I would like to thank Mr. Chairman and the
    subcommittee for holding this hearing at this very critical
    juncture in the relationship between the United States and
    Vietnam.
        Ongoing negotiations on the Trans-Pacific Partnership, or
    TPP, is expected soon to be concluded and President Obama will
    soon welcome Mr. Nguyen Phu Trong, the secretary general of the
    Vietnamese Communist Party, to the White House. He is not the
    head of state. He is the head of the Communist Party.
        As the two governments celebrate the two decades of
    normalized diplomatic relations this year, independent
    religious communities in Vietnam continue to face severe
    persecution.
        Ms. Doan Thi Hong Anh only mentioned about some incidents
    in Kontum. I just would like to point out some of the pictures.
    I am not sure whether you can see these or not but these are
    temporary chapels, 22 of them in just one district, that
    recently received the order to be dismantled.
        These are temporary chapels. They are tiny. They are just
    sheds. They are the only places of worship of thousands of
    Catholics in that district of Dak To.
        Why temporary chapels? Because their repeated requests to
    be registered as organizations, as parishes, have been ignored
    by the government.
        Their repeated requests to build churches have been ignored
    by the government and the only way out for them was to erect
    these temporary chapels and now they are being ordered to
    dismantle them.
        That is a very troubling trend of dismantling religious
    facilities so as to deny the faithful a venue to practice their
    faith. On February 6th of this year, the authorities in Khuoi
    Vinh village, Cao Bang Province, destroyed the very simple shed
    that followers of the Duong Van Minh sect--that is a Christian
    sect--built and used to store funeral objects as called for by
    their religious practices and traditions. They share this shed,
    and the funeral objects stored in this shed, because they are
    very poor.
        They cannot buy these objects, here--accessories here in
    the picture, for the funeral procession so they use and they
    store them in the shed so all the villagers can reuse them.
        These are the sheds and the government consistently,
    repeatedly destroyed them. So on February 6 the police came in
    and assaulted the villagers who tried to protect their shed and
    caused severe injuries to two of them that required
    hospitalization.
        A few months later, the villagers rebuilt that shed and on
    May 21, that is just a few weeks ago, the authorities again
    demolished it. So this is the sixth time that villagers built
    and rebuilt the shed and it was the sixth time that the
    authorities destroyed it.
        And then on April 14, the governor of Phu Yen Province
    dismantled Tuy An temple. This is the temple shown in the
    picture, a tiny temple of the Cao Dai, the local Cao Dai
    community.
        That is the only place of worship for that community and
    now it is gone. So these Cao Dai followers are worshipping in
    the place of destruction--the destruction of the temples,
    outdoors. They have no facility anymore.
        So that goes on and on. These are just a few examples of
    the situation on the ground--the reality in Vietnam. Reacting
    to international criticism, the Vietnamese Government has
    promised to pass its first ever law on belief and religion.
        That raised a lot of expectation and hopes among observers
    of Vietnam. However, its latest draft that was released in late
    April of this year was disappointing.
        This draft law would simply cement the restrictions and
    controls already in place under the existing ordinance on
    belief and religion and Decree 92, both of which are in direct
    violation of Article 18 of the International Covenant on Civil
    and Political Rights.
        Under the draft law, all religious activities that involve
    a group, even those conducted in private homes, would be
    required to register and be preapproved by the government.
    Registration is a requirement, not an offer, and there appears
    to be no alternative legal personality for organizations who
    choose not to register. So they would be practically outlawed.
        Registration approval are required for a broad range of
    activities and events including organizing festivals,
    ordainment and assignment of clergy, religious training,
    participation in overseas religious events and organizations,
    division or merging of affiliated religious organizations,
    establishment of religious formation facilities, amendments to
    a religious organization's charter or rules and regulations and
    so on.
        So in summary, the draft law is designed to impede
    independent religious communities. It would perpetuate and even
    aggravate the current situation where ``the rights to freedom
    of religion or belief of these communities are grossly violated
    in the face of constant surveillance, intimidation, harassment,
    and persecution,'' and these are the very words of the U.N.
    Special Rapporteur on freedom of religion or belief in his
    recent report on Vietnam.
        I would like to make a few recommendations. First of all,
    the U.S. Congress should take legislative actions to make trade
    and security partnership with Vietnam including the TPP and
    future transfer of lethal weapons to Vietnam contingent on
    significant improvement in human rights, particularly the right
    to freedom of religion and belief.
        Second, the U.S. State Department should designate Vietnam
    a Country of Particular Concern and the Vietnamese Government
    should treat registration with the government as an offer to
    religious communities to enhance their rights, not as a
    prerequisite for religious activities.
        So the points that I just presented actually reflect the
    opinion and the position of the majority of Vietnamese-
    Americans.
        At this very moment, some 800 Vietnamese-American advocates
    joined by many American veterans of the Vietnam War are
    arriving in the national capital from 30 states for our fifth
    Vietnam Advocacy Day in 4 years.
        We will be joined by numerous religious leaders tomorrow
    and many fellow advocates from other countries and tomorrow we
    will go office to office to talk to Members of Congress to
    advocate for greater rights of Vietnamese citizens--freedom of
    religion and human rights for them all.
        Again, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the
    subcommittee.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Thang follows:]

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                                  ----------

        Mr. Smith. Dr. Thang, you so very much.
        Pastor Hung.

    STATEMENT OF THE REVEREND NGUYEN MANH HUNG, VIETNAM INTERFAITH
                                COUNCIL

        [The following testimony was delivered through an
    interpreter.]
        Mr. Hung. The following is my statement representing the
    Vietnam Interfaith Council and the Cattle Shed Congregation of
    the Mennonite Church of Vietnam.
        I am here today as a part of a campaign for prisoners of
    conscience in Vietnam with my colleagues, Mr. Truong Minh Tam,
    a former political prisoner, and Mr. Nguyen Van Loi, the father
    of political prisoner, Nguyen Dang Minh Man.
        I am a pastor of the Mennonite Church and member of the
    Interfaith Council of Vietnam. My parishioners and supporters
    have been persecuted for expressing their faith. Before this
    trip, I discovered that the venerable Thich Khon Tanh Lien Tri
    Pagoda was threatened by security police that after TPP is
    approved authorities will tear down the pagoda.
        This trip to America comes at a crucial moment because of
    the discussions on TPP and I hope to bring forth my experiences
    and perspectives on conditions of religious freedom in Vietnam.
        The experiences of the Cattle Shed Congregation serve as
    evidence of the Vietnamese Government's repression of religious
    groups that do not accept the state's interference in their
    activities.
        We have 100 members and provide five classes for poor
    children. Because the Vietnamese Communist authorities do not
    want us to do charity work, they seized our land, forcing us to
    resort to setting up our place of worship in an abandoned
    cattle shed.
        Over the past 8 years, since moving to the cattle shed,
    authorities have continually looked for ways to get rid of us.
        On one occasion, the Cattle Shed Congregation was
    organizing a ceremony and I was told that the security police
    had come to investigate.
        When I came downstairs to see what was going on,
    plainclothes police came up, grabbed my neck, and choked me
    down to the floor as the security police stepped over my body
    to enter the ceremony room and disband the event.
        On another occasion, plainclothes police came to my house
    and destroyed my property and threatened to kill me, my wife,
    and my son.
        They use thugs and plainclothes police to brutalize our
    parishioners including Pastor Nguyen Hong Quang and have
    manipulated the law to imprison religious leaders such as
    Father Nguyen Van Ly, Pastor Duong Kim Khai, and Pastor Nguyen
    Cong Chinh.
        In spite of these acts of terrorism on our spirits and
    wellbeing, we keep moving forward. The most pressing issues for
    those in the wider religious communities are as follows: The
    Cao Dai and Hoa Hao Buddhist groups suffered land grabs at
    religious sites and the members are barred from participating
    in large ceremonies and Catholic groups have been banned from
    allowing Bishop Hoang Duc Oanh to ordain seminarians and
    authorities are preparing to seize 22 churches of ethnic
    minorities in Kontum Province.
        Another concern is the state's draft law on religion which
    is an attempt to tighten control over the affairs of faith-
    based organizations and stifle religious freedom.
        In order to address these issues, five major religious
    groups have come together to form the Interfaith Council of
    Vietnam. With our collective voice, we speak up for religious
    freedom and political prisoners and engage in humanitarian
    efforts.
        With the 20th anniversary of normalization between the U.S.
    and Vietnam, the ongoing TPP negotiations as well as General
    Secretary Nguyen Phu Trong's visit to the U.S., I hope that
    members of the U.S. Government will first call for the release
    of prisoners of conscience, especially faith leaders such as
    Father Nguyen Van Ly, Reverend Duong Kim Khai, and Reverend
    Nguyen Cong Chinh.
        Secondly, urge the U.S. Embassy in Hanoi to regularly visit
    political prisoners. I would like to request urgent attention
    for blogger Dang Xuan Dieu and photojournalist Nguyen Dang Minh
    Man, held in Prison Camp 5 of Thanh Hoa Province and community
    organizer Ho Duc Hoa in Nam Ha Prison in Ha Nam Province.
        They have been mistreated, placed in solitary confinement
    and in the case of Ho Duc Hoa denied the right to practice his
    Catholic faith in prison.
        And thirdly, call on the Vietnamese Government not to enact
    the draft law on religion. Thank you for your time.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Hung follows:]

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                                  ----------

        Mr. Smith. Mr. Hung, thank you very much for your testimony
    and for your leadership.
        Let me just begin with a few questions. Mr. Hai, you made a
    very powerful opening and all of your statements were very
    powerful.
        But you noted that your fellow prisoners entrusted you to
    relay their cries for help to the international community and
    you have done that, as you all have, to help the international
    community understand that the persecution of prisoners of
    conscience in Vietnam is systemic--that it is ongoing, it is
    pervasive and it is part of the system.
        It is not an aberration. And also, to lay bare the deceit
    of the Vietnam authorities when they commit to revise
    Vietnamese laws in order to participate in international trade
    agreements but do not implement such laws.
        I would take it a step further and say even the laws they
    write, as Dr. Thang pointed out, the new religious law is
    likely to compound and make worse the already existing Decree
    92, which is already a terrible onerous burden on people of
    faith.
        So that deceit that you speak about, and all of you might
    want to speak to this, we have been here before. We have seen
    this movie.
        It almost is like deja-vu from 15 years ago in 2000 and
    again a half a dozen years later when the WTO was the issue,
    all of this seeming movement toward easing, only to be followed
    by a snap back.
        As a matter of fact, Pastor Hung, you pointed out that a
    religious leader was informed by authorities that when TPP is
    approved his pagoda would be torn down. When are we going to
    learn? Why won't the administration hear?
        One of the leaders in the administration wrote an op-ed
    recently saying how this good thing is happening and this
    prisoner is being released.
        We saw that before only to see, again, a very serious
    repressive move by the Government of Vietnam against its own
    people. This will be the third time. First time, shame on you.
    Second time, shame on me.
        Third time, are we being foolish? Are we naive? And yet,
    the same cynical notion is seemingly having an impact
    positively at the White House and among Members of Congress.
        So let me just ask you if you could speak to that issue,
    starting with Pastor Hung, about the pagoda. Elaborate on that.
    While you are translating, I remember I made a trip to
    Vietnam--several--but one of them I met with a large number of
    leaders from the Buddhist Church.
        I met with the Venerable Thich Quang Do, like my friend,
    Mr. Lowenthal, like many of my colleagues. Father Ly, Father
    Loi, so many others and a lot of Protestant pastors. Many of
    them were rounded up after the trade benefit was provided and
    even people who had signed Bloc 8406 found themselves targeted
    by the repressive Vietnamese Government.
        So if you could answer how naive are we as a government
    here in the United States, thinking that somehow things will
    improve?
        And I will just add one last thing. Having read the key
    chapters of the TPP, which is under lock and key right now--we
    can't even discuss it openly--I am absolutely not persuaded
    that human rights would be advanced.
        Just the opposite. There is no enforcement, even of ILO
    standards. It has some nice language about the international
    labor laws, but no enforcement mechanism.
        So if you could all address that, then I will yield to my
    friend, Mr. Lowenthal, for any questions he might have.
        Mr. Hung. Lien Tri Buddhist Temple for many years has a
    place in a place for people who have been disadvantaged who
    suffered injustices and has been a place to help the
    handicapped including the wounded veterans of the former
    Republic of Vietnam.
        Because of these humanitarian efforts by the Lien Tri
    Pagoda, the Vietnamese authorities have really focused on
    targeting to shut down this Buddhist temple.
        So last August, the authorities came out with an
    announcement that they would take administrative measures
    against the pagoda in September. So the Interfaith Council,
    which I am a member of, we organized a petition that got
    thousands of signatures to oppose that and fortunately the
    government backed off from those plans.
        And recently the Vietnamese Redemptorists were prevented
    from organizing their own activities at the Ky Dong Church and
    in Saigon and because of that the Redemptorists partnered with
    the Buddhist temple at Lien Tri and because of that the
    authorities are further focusing on the Lien Tri pagoda.
        And so before I came to the U.S., the Venerable Thich Khong
    Tanh, the abbot of Lien Tri pagoda, said that fellow Buddhists
    of that pagoda have heard from government officials to remove
    all their artifacts from the temple including cremated remains
    of the relatives because the temple would be closed down after
    TPP.
        And so now the authorities are pressuring the Lien Tri
    temple to basically take a settlement--a very reduced sale of
    the temple, of the land--so then the government can take over
    the land.
        So Venerable Thich Khong Tanh has refused that cash
    settlement as well as the Vietnam Interfaith Council has
    refused that and so now we are waiting for the response from
    the Vietnamese authorities.
        Thank you.
        Mr. Thang. Yes. The Vietnamese Government now has sent some
    signals to our Government that it may be ready to make
    concessions on legal rights as part of TPP.
        However, I don't think there is any benchmark or mechanism
    to enforce their commitments, to monitor their compliance, or
    to sanction them in case there is noncompliance.
        We have seen a precedent before back in 2006 when the
    Vietnamese Government promised to respect the right to freedom
    of religion in order to be taken off the CPC designation.
        So we hurriedly took Vietnam off that list and immediately
    there was a brutal bloody crackdown against religions that we
    have documented through pictures--actually, the violence
    against people of faith including religious leaders.
        These are very graphic and I would like to point out a few
    pictures only. This is a picture of Pastor Nguyen Cong Chinh
    serving a long-term sentence in prison right now, a picture of
    Father Ly, a Buddhist monk here--he was beaten and had to be
    hospitalized. Father Ngo The Binh, a Catholic priest, also
    beaten up and he had to be hospitalized.
        This person was beaten to death, a Khmer Krom Christian
    Protestant. Ms. Ken a female Catholic, so on and so forth until
    this day. There continues to be violent against people of
    faith.
        So we have no mechanism from our own Government when we
    accepted the promise and commitment by the Vietnamese
    Government that they would improve. If they fail to do so, we
    have no mechanism, no benchmark to measure that. There are no
    deliverables, as Mr. Chairman just mentioned. So I am just
    afraid that we are back in the same situation again with the
    Vietnamese Government's promise to respect the workers' rights,
    to form or join independent and free labor unions. So I am very
    concerned about that.
        Mr. Smith. On that point I did ask an administration
    witness at a previous hearing what happens when labor rights
    activists and other human rights activists and religious
    freedom prisoners and especially since labor rights are at
    least signaled in the TPP included in it, when they are beaten,
    when they are incarcerated and given long jail sentences and
    their efforts at organizing are completely thwarted, what does
    that trigger?
        They said, we will get back to you. They still haven't
    gotten back to me. I have now read the secret proposed treaty
    called the TPP, or executive agreement, and I didn't see any
    enforcement.
        Mr. Lowenthal.
        Mr. Lowenthal. Thank you.
        I want to follow up on--and first of all, I am finding the
    very informative, the hearing, and I thank, again, the
    witnesses.
        I assume that all of you are, and I want to hear from you--
    I guess it is my assumption after listening--if you were
    advising us you would advise us, given the present
    circumstances, to vote against the TPP?
        Does each of you make that statement to us that you see
    that the gains would be offset tremendously by the negative
    aspects of the TPP? I am trying to hear--would you advise us to
    vote against the TPP, given the circumstances of where we are?
        And if not, what should we be doing as Members of Congress?
    Dr. Thang.
        Mr. Thang. That is a very tough question because on the one
    hand we would like to see Vietnam be prosperous. We would like
    to see Vietnam be democratic, to be a stable and reliable
    partner of the United States.
        However, there are no preconditions right now to make those
    things happen. And therefore, we are pushing for conditions to
    make Vietnam a trusted party and deserving party of the TPP and
    that means that they must truly respect human rights.
        They must allow their citizens the basic rights, the basic
    freedoms--and there are three of them--freedom of expression,
    freedom of peaceful assembly, and freedom of association. Those
    are the cornerstones of civil society. And we would like to see
    those things demonstrated before Vietnam joins the TPP.
        Mr. Lowenthal. Okay. So I am not going to ask the others
    because I think it could put you into a difficult situation
    what to do. So I hear that you are saying that there are
    preconditions.
        What you would like, Doctor, is that these conditions be
    addressed first before they do and you have not seen--and you
    said you see some signs but you're not sure that these are
    really moving forward.
        What signs do we really need to see? What do we really need
    to see now in terms of the conditions?
        Mr. Thang. For instance, there ought to be a decision at
    the highest level to release all prisoners of conscience.
    Secondly, there ought to be laws to truly legalize the
    formation of free and independent labor unions, and we don't
    want a repeat of the ordinance on belief or religion because
    that ordinance has actually been used as a tool to control and
    suppress religions and not to promote religion at all.
        And thirdly, we would like to see that there will be
    sanctions provisions as part of the negotiation, as part of
    TPP. Maybe we should give Vietnam 5 years to get there, to be
    fully a partner in TPP.
        Mr. Lowenthal. And then I am going to ask Mr. Hai. What you
    are saying is that we should, especially with Vietnam, slow
    down the process, not say not to join or to join, but to
    specifically see some very specific changes whether in
    religious freedom, labor law, right to associate before they
    become a partner in this--that you are not opposed economically
    in the future for Vietnam to be prosperous but we should not
    grant that right away.
        We should be really holding their feet to the fire and
    letting them demonstrate not after they become part of the TPP,
    but before they do that and not to send a message you are
    against it, but you want them to demonstrate these very
    specific changes in laws and other practices.
        I wonder if Mr. Hai has the same feeling about that. What
    would you advise us to do?
        Mr. Hai. So we all recall that before Vietnam joined the
    WTO they made many promises of which they have not fulfilled.
    So one of the big questions is whether TPP will actually bring
    economic benefits to people in Vietnam, in particular,
    Vietnamese workers.
        In Communist countries, not just Vietnam, in China too,
    they suppressed worker wages as a way to, you know, spur trade
    and investment so therefore the competition that happens in
    Vietnam is not something that is productive.
        So American businesses may bring their operations to
    Vietnam to take advantage of the artificially low wages and the
    lack of environmental protections.
        So Vietnamese authorities will profit from these operations
    in taxes and so forth but Vietnamese workers won't receive
    their proper wages and when those operations shift from the
    U.S. to Vietnam then, of course, American workers will lose
    their work--their jobs.
        So therefore I don't want to see TPP be achieved at the
    expense of human rights. So if Vietnam joins TPP, I would like
    to see Vietnamese workers have the right to form their own
    independent labor organizations to defend and protect their own
    rights because the government-sponsored labor group doesn't
    work for the Vietnamese workers and in its history of 80 years
    it has never organized a strike on behalf of Vietnamese
    workers.
        And Vietnamese activists who have organized to protect
    workers have been persecuted, as you may have heard, cases such
    as Bui Thi Minh Hang and Nguyen Hoang Quoc Hung. So the lessons
    experienced with WTO is apparent to us and we should apply that
    for TPP.
        Mr. Lowenthal. So what you are saying is you don't want
    promises. You would like to see real change before the----
        Mr. Hai. Yes. I would like to see enforceable measures
    including, with TPP, things that can be done if they do not
    abide by the promises in the letter of the agreement.
        Mr. Lowenthal. Thank you. Thank you, and I yield back.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you.
        Chairman Rohrabacher.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. When are we ever going to learn? They are
    Communists who control Vietnam. I mean, these are people who
    believe in an atheist dictatorship and they have been pushing
    it ever since the beginning of the Cold War.
        I am sorry. You are not going to make deals with these
    Communists that are going to make them not Communists, and the
    fact that there is still repression going on now, Mr. Chairman,
    religious repression in Vietnam after all of this time which
    shows you they are committed to their philosophy which atheist
    dictatorship will create a better world.
        And, obviously, this idea that we are going to try to--they
    are going to make an agreement to make things better and thus
    we are going to let them into a better trade relationship with
    us, I am sorry.
        It didn't work in China and it is not going to work in
    Vietnam. The only thing that is going to work in Vietnam and in
    China is if the people of the United States and other freedom-
    loving people around the world decide we are not going to let
    them be treated like they are a free country. That is the only
    hope we have.
        If we treat gangsters like we do people who are a
    democratic political people, don't expect the gangsters to
    become like political people. They will think we are a bunch of
    suckers.
        Why do they have to change? The last thing we want to do is
    give TPP--a trade status--to any Communist dictatorship until
    after they change, not an agreement that they will change.
        Let me put it this way. The Vietnamese are very freedom-
    loving people and that they are still trying to build churches
    and suffering the repercussions is something consistent with
    what I have seen about the Vietnamese people.
        I spent some time in Vietnam in 1967 up in Pleiku and the
    Vietnamese I was working with--they were Montagnards and these
    guys were very small and they were willing to take on the
    entire North Vietnamese Army with these little crossbows.
        And then I was down in Saigon working with some students
    who were trying to promote democracy in Vietnam and there would
    be rallies and the Communists would blow up--they would have
    these bicycles loaded with explosives and they would put them
    into the middle of the rallies and blow everybody to hell.
        But the students didn't give up and they were still for
    freedom and democracy, just like the people in Central
    Highlands didn't give up.
        And today we have got to make sure we don't give up. We
    gave up once before and I think we betrayed the fail that was
    put into us and now who is going to benefit in faith the United
    States by reaching out to the Communist Government of Vietnam?
        It is a clique of capitalists who will make money and then
    the Communist dictators and the gangsters that run Vietnam will
    make money and the American people won't be any better off.
        We will be worse off because we will be less secure. We
    will be relying on a gangster regime. But certainly, the people
    of Vietnam aren't going to be better off.
        They are not going to--out of the goodness of their heart
    make sure that this--that the resources that they are producing
    with their hard work are compensated justly for it because then
    they couldn't take their share.
        I think it is time for us to, instead of looking for ways
    to basically cozy up and think that we are going to be nice to
    the dictatorship in Vietnam and it is going to reform, we have
    to put those days behind us.
        We are always open to that but we should be open until they
    make the steps first.
        The fact that they are still persecuting religion indicates
    to us that they still believe in this monstrously evil atheist
    dictatorship that the Communists tried to impose on the world
    for 50 years.
        So with that said, I will certainly be against TPP if they
    include a Communist dictatorship as one of the countries we
    should treat as friends. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you, Chairman Rohrabacher.
        Regrettably, there is a series of votes on the floor but I
    do have a few final questions I would like to ask, and if I do
    have to run over, please continue and the hearing will adjourn
    when you are done with your remarks.
        First of all, Mr. Hai, you made a number of very important
    points about abolishing Circular 37 and you said to ensure
    basic human rights for all prisoners to prevent prisoners of
    conscience, political prisoners, as well as prisoners of
    criminal offenses from being treated like animals and maybe
    elaborate on that.
        You point out that Circular 37 must be abolished and you
    also pointed out when there is a complaint from a incarcerated
    person--a political prisoner, for example--that there is a
    retaliation taken against that person by the--by the prison
    guards and by the warden.
        You might want to respond to that as well. Did that happen
    to you?
        To you, Dr. Thang, as you pointed out, the U.N. Special
    Rapporteur on freedom of religion and belief offered a very,
    very important observation when he said the rights to freedom
    of religion or belief of the independent religious communities
    are grossly violated in the face of constant surveillance,
    intimidation, harassment, and persecution.
        That was July 2014, and unfortunately there are many in
    Washington who are acting as if somehow things had matriculated
    from severe repression in Vietnam to emerging democracy, which
    it has not. If you want to elaborate on that.
        And you also pointed out, and I think this is very
    important, that the Vietnamese National Assembly is promising
    to promulgate its first law on belief and religion.
        Now, there are a lot of people here on Capitol Hill who are
    gullible, who will accept that they are in the process of
    reforming and you in your testimony many a very strong point
    that this simply cements the restrictions and controls already
    in place under the ordinance of Decree 92.
        So, you know, another sham reform effort and yet
    unfortunately it will have its buyers here in the capital who
    will say they are redoing their religious--maybe you want to
    speak to that as well.
        And Ms. Doan, again, thank you for your courageous stand on
    behalf of those who have lost their lives, including your
    husband, and of course those who lost their homes and a parish
    that lost its ability to thrive as it did so well.
        Your courage is deeply appreciated. And of course, Pastor
    Hung, thank you for your leadership as well and for your very
    concrete recommendations.
        Mr. Hai, if we could start with you.
        Mr. Hai. So Circular 37 was issued by the Ministry of
    Public Security in 2011 and the contents of that circular have
    never been published and they are held in secret.
        According to the criminal procedure code of Vietnam there
    is no mention of all the measures that people have experienced
    under Circular 37. It is something that is not in the legal
    code.
        For instance, Article 42 of this code, the legal code,
    talks about Vietnamese prisoners being held in public areas in
    groups who are not in solitary confinement.
        But in Article 37 the jailers have many prisons where they
    hold people separately, sometimes behind three sets of doors.
        Each cell will hold from one to two political prisoners and
    that the doors never open and these people are held in de facto
    solitary confinement.
        I am a victim of this Circular 37 and in June 2013 they
    read an order to hold me under solitary confinement but they
    never gave me the written order.
        I was held in solitary confinement for 3 months even though
    the actual laws permit something like that to happen for 10
    days. So this is an example of a regulation that is below the
    laws but supersedes the laws.
        Two very appalling and recent cases are of the blogger Dang
    Xuan Dieu and also Nguyen Dang Minh Man, who are both held in
    such circumstances.
        On the issue of issuing appeals, in June 2013 I issued an
    appeal. According to the laws, the authorities have 24 hours to
    respond to my appeal but then I had to go on a hunger strike
    for 33 days before the authorities made any attempt to resolve
    the matter.
        During my hunger strike was the visit by the state
    chairman, Truong Tan Sang, to the United States two summers ago
    and it was only when Truong Tan Sang returned to Vietnam that
    the pressure led to the resolution by the authorities.
        In conclusion, rather than authorities, you know, resolving
    my case within 24 hours as the law stipulates, I had to go on a
    hunger strike for 33 days and because when I want to protest my
    mistreatment I have to write it out and give the paperwork to
    the people who are mistreating me. That is why there is such
    abuse in the Vietnamese prisons.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you. Please don't hurry your response. I
    am going to have to leave. Without objection, your full
    comments will be a part of the official record and when you
    have concluded the hearing is adjourned because it is so
    important that we hear what you have to say.
        So Dr. Thang, I do have to run to the vote. But thank you
    and thank you all for your extraordinary testimony, which we
    will make sure that other Members of Congress hear it, House
    and Senate, because again, your bravery and your insights are
    absolutely amazing and I thank you for it on behalf of my
    subcommittee.
        Dr. Thang.
        Mr. Thang. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I think that the prime reason
    for the situation that we have found ourselves in is that the
    Vietnamese Government has made multiple promises to the U.S.
    Government and the free world that it would change, it would
    improve human rights conditions in Vietnam, it would become
    more tolerant of religious freedom. It is of concern that there
    is a lack of political will in our own administrations
    throughout many presidencies.
        For instance, Vietnam did promise to come out with a law
    that would respect religious freedom and it did come out with
    the ordinance on belief and religion. However, the Vietnamese
    Government has surely used that law to control religions, to
    restrict religious activities, and also to create synthetic
    organizations to crowd out the real ones.
        For instance, in many situations relating to Cao Dai
    religion, the Hoa Hao Buddhist religion, the Unified Buddhist
    religion, the Khmer Krom Buddhism, et cetera, and many
    Protestant denominations, the government aided the synthetic
    organizations to take over the facilities and the assets of the
    real religious organizations.
        So we are seeing that the Government in Vietnam is using
    its law that on the one hand it claims to be progress in
    dealing with the outside world. But on the other hand, it is
    using its law to further suppress religious activities in
    Vietnam.
        Now, back to the report by the U.N. Special Rapporteur, Mr.
    Heiner Bielefeldt. If we take that report at its face value
    then, clearly, there is no other option but for the State
    Department to designate Vietnam as a Country of Particular
    Concern.
        The threshold for CPC designation is that there is ongoing
    egregious violations of freedom of religion. And systematic.
    And it is systematic because this is the law--there is a legal
    framework that allows the government to do this--to act that
    way and it is ongoing because, clearly, in my testimony we have
    demonstrated that even as of today there are egregious
    violations of freedom of religion in Vietnam.
        There is, clearly, a lack of political will on the part of
    the administration to do exactly what it should have been doing
    according to the law passed by Congress.
        [Whereupon, at 3:52 p.m. the committee was adjourned.]

                                A P P E N D I X

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                       Material Submitted for the Record

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

       Material submitted for the record by the Honorable Christopher H.
     Smith, a Representative in Congress from the State of New Jersey, and
     chairman, Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights,
                        and International Organizations

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

       Material submitted for the record by the Honorable Christopher H.
     Smith, a Representative in Congress from the State of New Jersey, and
     chairman, Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights,
                        and International Organizations

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

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