[House Hearing, 114 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE SHAME OF IRANIAN HUMAN RIGHTS
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JOINT HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON AFRICA, GLOBAL HEALTH,
GLOBAL HUMAN RIGHTS, AND
INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS
AND THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
FEBRUARY 26, 2015
__________
Serial No. 114-16
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
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______
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida BRAD SHERMAN, California
DANA ROHRABACHER, California GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
JOE WILSON, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
TED POE, Texas BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
MATT SALMON, Arizona KAREN BASS, California
DARRELL E. ISSA, California WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
MO BROOKS, Alabama AMI BERA, California
PAUL COOK, California ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California
RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas GRACE MENG, New York
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
RON DeSANTIS, Florida TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
TED S. YOHO, Florida ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
CURT CLAWSON, Florida BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee
REID J. RIBBLE, Wisconsin
DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan
LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
TOM EMMER, Minnesota
Amy Porter, Chief of Staff Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director
Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director
Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights, and
International Organizations
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey, Chairman
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina KAREN BASS, California
CURT CLAWSON, Florida DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee AMI BERA, California
TOM EMMER, Minnesota
------
Subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida, Chairman
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
JOE WILSON, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
DARRELL E. ISSA, California BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
RON DeSANTIS, Florida ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina GRACE MENG, New York
TED S. YOHO, Florida LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
CURT CLAWSON, Florida BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan
LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
C O N T E N T S
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Page
WITNESSES
Mr. Shayan Arya, Central Committee Member, Constitutionalist
Party of Iran (Liberal Democrat)............................... 9
Mr. Mohsen Sazegara, president, Research Institute on
Contemporary Iran.............................................. 20
Mr. Anthony Vance, director, U.S. Baha'i Office of Public Affairs 24
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
Mr. Shayan Arya: Prepared statement.............................. 13
Mr. Mohsen Sazegara: Prepared statement.......................... 22
Mr. Anthony Vance: Prepared statement............................ 26
APPENDIX
Hearing notice................................................... 46
Hearing minutes.................................................. 47
Mr. Mohsen Sazegara: Proposals................................... 48
THE SHAME OF IRANIAN HUMAN RIGHTS
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THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2015
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health,
Global Human Rights, and International Organizations and
Subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The committees met, pursuant to notice, at 2 o'clock p.m.,
in room 2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Christopher H.
Smith (chairman of the Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health,
Global Human Rights, and International Organizations)
presiding.
Mr. Smith. The subhearing of the joint subcommittees will
come to order, and good afternoon to everybody.
At a time when the administration seems keen to reach a
nuclear accord that relies at least to some extent on trust,
although there are some verification aspects to it, with the
Iranian regime and perhaps even a de facto collaboration in the
fight against ISIS, it is wise to consider and scrutinize the
dismal human rights record of this country which we are
currently conducting negotiations with.
How they treat their own people is illustrative of how they
see and will treat outsiders. This hearing provides a critical
examination of human rights in Iran, which is important and
necessary in its own right, and also places in context the
administration's efforts toward a nuclear deal.
According to the report by the U.N. Special Rapporteur on
Human Rights in Iran, between July 2013 and June 2014, at least
852 people were executed in Iran. Shockingly, some of those
executed were children under the age of 18. Iranian human
rights activists place the number of people executed by the
regime at 1,181.
The current Department of State human rights report states
that Iranian human rights violations include disappearances;
cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment; mistreatment of
prisoners including judicially sanctioned amputation and
flogging; rape; politically motivated violence and repression;
harsh and life-threatening conditions in detention and prison
facilities, with instances of death in custody; arbitrary
arrests and lengthy pretrial detention, sometimes
incommunicado.
While the Iranian Constitution grants equal rights to all
ethnic minorities and allows for minority languages to be used
in the media and in schools, minorities do not enjoy equal
rights and the regime consistently denies their right to use
their language in school. In addition, a 1985 law prohibits
non-Shi'a ethnic minorities from fully participating in civic
life. That law and its associated provisions make full access
of employment, education and other areas conditional on a
devotion to the Islamic Republic and the tenets of the Shi'a
Islam.
The regime disproportionately targets minority groups
including Kurds, Arabs, Azeris, and others, for arbitrary
arrest, prolonged detention, and physical abuse. These groups
report political and socioeconomic discrimination particularly
in their access to economic aid, business licenses, university
admissions, permission to publish books, and housing and land
rights.
Because of the severe religious freedom abuses, our
Government has designated Iran as a Country of Particular
Concern since 1999, each year. Frequently, the arrest and
harassment of members of religious minorities has continued
following a significant increase in 2012. The government
severely restricts religious freedom, and there have been
reports of imprisonment, harassment, intimidation, and
discrimination based on those faith beliefs.
There has been continued reports of government charging
religious and ethnic minorities with ``enmity against God,''
``anti-Islamic propaganda,'' or vague national security crimes
for their religious activities. Those reportedly arrested on
religious grounds face poor prison conditions and treatment, as
with most prisoners of conscience.
One of the imprisoned on religious grounds is Pastor Saeed
Abedini, a U.S. citizen and father of two--Rebekkah and Jacob--
and a Christian imprisoned in Iran because of his, and only
because of, his faith. Pastor Abedini was imprisoned by the
Iranian regime nearly 1,000 days ago when members of the
Revolutionary Guard pulled him off a bus and then placed him
under house arrest. He later was taken away in chains to Evin
prison, where he endured periods of solitary confinement,
beatings, internal bleeding, death threats, and continued
psychological torture all because he would not deny his
Christian faith.
What was Pastor Abedini's crime? According to the court, he
was a threat to the security of Iran because of his leadership
role in Christian churches between 2000 and 2005. And I would
note parenthetically that he was allowed to go back to build an
orphanage, got the approval and then had that all reversed and
then he was arrested.
President Obama promised Pastor Abedini's son Jacob that he
would do all he can to gain his father's release by the boy's
birthday next month. Yesterday, the Secretary of State in
answer to a question I posed said the administration was
working quietly to gain Pastor Abedini's release as soon as
possible. Let us hope.
Meanwhile, Iran is repeatedly cited for virtually
unrelenting repression of the Baha'is community which Iran's
Shiite Muslim clergy views as a heretical sect. Baha'is number
about 300,000-350,000. At least 30 Baha'i remained imprisoned
and 60 were arrested in 2012. A February 2013 U.N. report said
that 110 Baha'is were in jail. They had said that 133 were
expected to start serving jail time.
Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, the regime has executed
more than 200 Baha'is simply because of their faith. The regime
frequently prevents many Baha'is from leaving the country,
harasses them, persecutes them, and generally disregards their
property rights. I would note parenthetically that when Ronald
Reagan was President and was the first one to raise the issue
at the Presidential level, I was there at the White House when
he so designated the defense of the Baha'i as a very vital,
important interest of the United States and all concerned about
human rights.
Iranian courts offer no recourse to the monstrous
violations of human rights because without an independent
judiciary Iranians and foreigners tied to those courts are
routinely denied fair trials sometimes resulting in executions
without due process.
I'd like to now yield to Mr. Deutch for any opening
comments he may have.
Mr. Deutch. Thank you. Thank you Chairman Smith, Chairman
Ros-Lehtinen and Ranking Member Bass for holding today's joint
hearing. It is very important that our two subcommittees come
together today to shine a light on Iran's atrocious human
rights record. And I apologize because this is an issue I care
deeply about but I'm going to be running back and forth to
another hearing taking place at the same time.
While the world anxiously awaits to see what if any
agreement will be reached on Iran's nuclear weapons program,
this hearing serves as an important reminder that even beyond
the dangerous and illicit program Iran's regime routinely
violates human rights of the Iranian people. At the same time
that the news is focused on Geneva, back in Iran the human
rights situation is as dismal as ever.
We are well past the Ahmadinejad period in Iran where
inflammatory statements made criticism easy. Enough time has
passed to see what the Rouhani administration can do.
Unfortunately it appears that Rouhani has fallen short on many
of his campaign promises, hamstrung perhaps by the Supreme
Leader's ultimate and absolute control. The Iranian economy
continues to suffer due to the intransigence of its leaders,
and the Iranian people remain repressed and restricted by the
ultra-conservative social policies of the Ayatollah.
Today's hearing serves as an important reminder that even
if we were to resolve the nuclear issue, even if hypothetically
the P5+1 reaches an acceptable nuclear deal, Iran still remains
a global leader in terrorism financing and human rights abuses.
Iran would still be willing to sentence a juvenile to death for
the crime of corruption on earth and imprison hundreds of
political prisoners.
This is a government that refuses for its own people some
of the most fundamental human rights, a government that is
willing to perpetuate misogynistic, racist, and homophobic
policies, and one that will relentlessly defend its right to
possess nuclear capabilities while the Supreme Leader continues
to decry Israel's right to simply exist.
Showing a complete disregard for the principle of the right
to life, Iran continues to execute its citizens at alarming
rates. Official sources put the number of executions in 2014 at
200, but the actual number could likely be over 700. Many of
those individuals were charged with questionable or vague
offenses, like a woman last October that was convicted of
killing a man that she claimed was in the act of raping her.
With dozens and dozens of offenses that carry capital
punishment, Iran's judiciary has shown just how easy it is for
an individual to be put to death, with over 80 Iranians
executed in January of this year alone.
The government allows no room for political dissent or
critical belief. The regime continues to censor journalists and
political activists and to deny its citizens their freedom of
speech and opinion. Iran's unfounded arrest and subsequent
jailing of Washington Post journalist Jason Rezaian on trumped
up charges is despicable and must be condemned by all
responsible nations.
The Internet is certainly not an open and safe space in
Iran. Anything from a Facebook post to a viral video can land
an individual in jail for years. And with one of the highest
incarceration rates in the world, Iran certainly exercises
their willingness to imprison individuals in order to keep
absolute control over media and news content consumed by the
people.
Another favorite tactic of the Iranian regime is targeting
ethnic and religious minorities. The country's largest non-
Muslim religious minority, people of the Baha'i Faith, face
particularly hostile treatment. This community is denied
freedom of religion, they live under constant fear of arrest,
attacks, and destruction of their religious sites. Over 100
Baha'is are currently held in detention and many international
reports have criticized Iran's failure to ensure that they
receive a fair trial and adequate access to counsel.
Many other groups also face bigotry and targeted
discrimination. Christians and Sunni Muslims, Arabs, Kurds, and
Azeris, and many more religious and ethnic minority groups are
also frequently targeted by the regime, and many are forced to
hide signs of their identity while in public.
Women are still subservient to men in many aspects of daily
life, and as we witnessed from the gruesome pictures of acid
attacks last fall, women are still targeted for violating
social norms as set by the state's religious interpretations.
For the LGBT community the environment in Iran is bleak.
LGBT individuals face discrimination from their government but
also from their friends and families. They can't turn to the
courts because same-sex relationships are criminalized. They
can't report attacks to law enforcement authorities out of fear
that they may be arrested for being LGBT.
And there's little information or support available on the
ground. The head of Iran's human rights council made the
government's position clear when he said that universal human
rights should not be extended to what he referred to as the
homosexual lifestyle.
Yesterday during another Foreign Affairs Committee hearing,
I implored Secretary Kerry to continue to raise the case of Bob
Levinson, an American citizen and my constituent, who has been
missing in Iran since March 2007, while our negotiators sit
across the table from the Iranians. Eight years later Bob is
still not home. Despite indications by the Iranian Government
of their willingness to assist in this case, we're nearing the
eighth anniversary of his disappearance and we see no positive
signs. We must continue to advocate for help in Bob's case and
for the release of the other American citizens unjustly held in
Iran, Amir Hekmati and Pastor Abedini.
Last November we passed a resolution condemning the Iranian
Government for these and many more human rights violations, a
long list to be sure, but it is important that we as a body
consistently condemn these policies and practices.
Unfortunately the same is not the case for the rest of the
world. The U.N. General Assembly's Third Committee also voted
last fall in a resolution on Iran's human rights abuses. And
while it passed with 78 votes, 69 countries abstained and 35
countries voted against it.
Finally, as we get closer to the deadlines for negotiations
with Iran, I urge my colleagues in Congress and our negotiators
in Geneva to not take our eyes off what is happening on the
ground in Iran. With such deplorable human rights abuses
occurring daily and millions of Iranians repressed and facing
discrimination, we've got to keep the global spotlight on Iran
and condemn the government's disregard for basic human rights.
That is what today's hearing will do.
I want to thank again the chairman. I want to thank our
witnesses. I look forward to hearing from you today.
Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, Mr. Deutch.
It is a privilege to join Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, the former
chairman of the full committee and now chairman of the
Subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa. This is both
of our subcommittees' joint hearing. I yield to my good friend
and colleague.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much, Chairman Smith, and
thank you for holding this joint subcommittee hearing on this
important topic. And in fact this is the third hearing that
Chairman Smith and I have held on the issue of human rights in
Iran, and I am appreciative of your continued dedicated
leadership on this issue.
I want to first start with some good news. We confirmed
yesterday that Rozita Vaseghi was finally released last month
after a 5-year sentence in prison in Iran. Rozita is a member
of the persecuted Baha'i community that you have heard about
from my colleagues. They are Iran's largest non-Muslim
religious minority and I adopted her as a prisoner of
conscience last year as part of the Tom Lanto Human Rights
Commission's Defending Freedoms project.
And while I am relieved, all of us are, that Rozita has
been released and will be able to get the health care that she
needs after years of brutal mistreatment and solitary
confinement, we know that her ordeal is not over. She has not
been given any paperwork. Authorities have not told her whether
she really might continue to serve a second 5-year term or even
an arbitrary 2-year term. She fears that she could be thrown
back in prison at any time, so we continue to pray for Rozita
and for so many others as well.
Mr. Chairman, as you know the Iranian regime uses tactics
like those that they used against Rozita every day to instill
fear in the people of Iran. Iran's human rights practices are
amongst the worst in the world. But in its desperation to
secure a nuclear deal, the Obama administration has completely
ignored the issue of human rights in Iran as well as many other
concerns that we have with the Iranian regime.
And this serves as another example of the policy of the
White House to look the other way on human rights violations as
part of any negotiation, and that was evident in Cuba. The
administration is hosting regime officials tomorrow after the
Castro state security folks have arrested over 300 civil
society activists in the last 3 weeks. In the last 3 weeks. And
delegations have come and gone and folks say they are all in
favor of human rights, but apparently not while there. Among
them was Berta Soler who testified before your subcommittee,
Mr. Chairman, 3 weeks ago. In these secret talks with Cuba, the
administration showed its willingness to trade away the store
for little concessions in return.
So the question becomes what will the administration trade
next with the Iran nuclear deal? What will the administration
give up in return for those American citizens who are being
held in Tehran? The parallels between how the White House is
negotiating in secret with Cuba and Iran at the same time--
well, the parallels are striking.
What the administration has never understood or really has
chosen to ignore is that Congress passed strong sanctions laws
not just to stop Iran's nuclear program but also its ballistic
missile program, its weapons program, its worldwide support for
terror, its destabilization of the region, its abysmal human
rights record. And as the author of many pieces of Iran related
sanctions legislation, I can tell you that from the beginning
the administration fought Congress tooth and nail to stop any
sanctions at all.
And so it is of no surprise to anyone that the human rights
issue is not even a part of the discussion when we talk about
the nuclear deal. And now it appears increasingly likely that
the administration will give away what little leverage we have
and leave the ayatollahs free to continue to oppress the people
of Iran, to continue jailing, torturing, and executing
dissidents, prisoners of conscience, religious minorities, and
ethnic minorities.
It is truly shameful to hear our own State Department talk
about the importance of global human rights, talk about it when
it does absolutely nothing and in fact is indirectly
legitimizing the continued repression of the people of Iran.
The Obama administration after failing to support the
Iranian people's right of self-determination during the 2009
Green Movement rushed to brand Rouhani as a moderate saying
that human rights under this Ayatollah lackey would somehow
improve.
But what we have seen, Mr. Chairman, is just the opposite.
Human rights under Rouhani have actually gotten worse. There
have been more crackdowns on free speech, more arrests, more
jailings of journalists, more jailings of political prisoners,
more persecution of women, the LGBT community, religious
minorities, ethnic minorities, more executions.
According to the latest report of Human Rights Watch, the
real number of executions in Iran last year is thought to be
over 600 including eight who were under the age of 18. We still
cannot confirm the execution last week of Saman Naseem, a 22-
year-old ethnic Kurd who was 17 when he was arrested. Bloggers
and social media users have also suffered under Rouhani with
security forces cracking down sharply on any dissent,
especially those considered to be leading members of the
opposition.
Members of the Baha'i community like Rozita are especially
targeted with 100 Baha'is currently in prison. Baha'i
cemeteries are systematically destroyed, including last year's
bulldozing of over 1,000 graves in one city in order to build a
cultural and sports complex. And May 14th is the 7-year
anniversary of the imprisonment of the Baha'i Seven, the former
leadership group who have been serving 20-year sentences for
advocating on behalf of their religious beliefs.
The regime hopes that we will move on, we will forget the
people of Iran as the administration in the U.S. continues to
negotiate solely on the nuclear program and there are at least
four unjustly jailed Americans in Iranian prisons. And we've
mentioned them here.
Saeed Abedini, a Christian pastor who has been in jail
since 2012 has been tortured and beaten by prison guards and
inmates. Marine veteran Amir Hakmati who has been held since
2011. His health is rapidly deteriorating. He is also beaten
and tortured. Jason Rezaian, the Washington Post bureau chief
arrested last year, still has not been charged but he is in
solitary confinement and his health is declining. And of course
the constituent of my good friend Ted Deutch, Bob Levinson, a
south Florida resident who has been held captive by the Iranian
regime since March 9, 2007, making him the longest held hostage
in U.S. history. These four U.S. citizens are just a few of the
millions who continue to suffer under the Iranian regime, and
tragically that suffering is not part of the administration's
calculus.
Human rights are an essential factor in long term
stability, should be a key objective in our foreign policy
strategy, not a simple resolution to pass but something to live
up to every day both for those suffering under tyranny and for
our own national security.
Mr. Chairman, we must not allow the human rights conditions
in Iran to be ignored continually by this administration. Thank
you, sir.
Mr. Smith. Madam Chair, thank you very much for your very
eloquent statement and for your passion.
Now we will yield to Mr. Cicilline.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you Mr. Chairman, and thank you to you
and to Ranking Member Deutch, and thank you to Chairman Ros-
Lehtinen for convening this hearing and for calling attention
to this very important issue.
While the nuclear negotiations with Iran have dominated
discussions in this country of late, the fact remains that Iran
remains one of the world's worst perpetrators of human rights
abuses and it is critical that we continue to bring attention
to this issue. For those who dare to criticize the regime of
Supreme Leader Khamenei or attempt to challenge the government
and propose conformity, they face harsh consequences sometimes
even including death.
I am particularly concerned about the horrific disregard
for basic political expression, which according to the current
State Department human rights report, they characterize it as
the most egregious human rights problems were the government's
manipulation of the electoral process, which severely limited
citizens' right to change their government peacefully through
free and fair elections; restrictions on civil liberties
including the freedoms of assembly, speech, and press; and
disregard for the physical integrity of persons whom it
arbitrarily and unlawfully detained, tortured, and killed. And
as was explained, including four American citizens currently
being held.
In addition, I am particularly concerned about the rights
of LGBT persons and other vulnerable minority groups in the
country, in a country that imposes strict, so-called morality
codes, does not respect basic freedom of expression or religion
and limits access to the outside world.
I thank the witnesses for being here today and look very
much forward to your testimony, and again thank the chairman
and ranking member for calling this hearing. And with that I
yield back.
Mr. Smith. Thank you.
I would like to yield to Chairman Chabot.
Mr. Chabot. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to commend you
and Chairman Ros-Lehtinen for continuing this series of
hearings on Iran, perhaps the most dangerous regime in the
world today.
Iran continues to be one of the world's leading abusers of
fundamental human rights. The example of the Baha'is which both
you and Chairman Ros-Lehtinen talked about already, it has
already been referred to, but unfortunately it is only one of
many of these abuses which are taking place today.
The regime persecutes anybody who dares to speak publicly
or not so publicly against the regime and often issues death
sentences to Iranians who are charged with insulting the Islam.
It has become pretty clear that the so-called moderate Rouhani
is just another in a long list of Iranian dictators whose
contempt for his own people's fundamental human rights and
religious freedom is readily apparent.
When I chaired the Middle East Subcommittee in not the
past, but the one before that Congress, as I had the
opportunity to spend about an hour with Prime Minister
Netanyahu in his office, and some of the things he told me were
shocking and I hadn't heard a lot of them in the news. And one
in particular that stands with me to this day was the fact that
during the Green Movement they had videos, the government did,
and so when they were over we might have thought it was over.
And what they were doing is systematically identifying those
people that were in the crowds and that were supporters of the
Green Movement and they were disappearing and in many instances
along with their families, and this was something that got very
little attention.
And my colleague, Ms. Ros-Lehtinen, mentioned this
administration's, for lack of a better term, dropping the ball,
in many instances when it comes to Iran. That was one in
particular. I think we had an opportunity to actually speak out
and do something on behalf of that movement. That was an
opportunity that was missed and a lot of people unfortunately
have paid a very high price as a result of that inaction.
And so I want to thank you for holding this hearing and I
yield back.
Mr. Smith. Thank you, Chairman Chabot.
The chair recognizes the gentleman from Michigan, Mr.
Trott.
Mr. Trott. I want to thank Chairman Smith and Chairman Ros-
Lehtinen for holding this hearing. And there's no question that
Iran is guilty of egregious human rights violations. They
continue to manipulate the election process to prevent peaceful
and fair elections. They severely restrict civil liberties,
commit repeated religious freedom abuses, show disrespect for
the physical integrity of its people through arbitrary
detentions and torture and killing.
Other problems include sanctioned amputations and rape and
flogging and punishment for politically motivated violence. It
is not surprising that the World Press Freedom Index ranked
Iran 173rd out of 180 countries with respect to human rights
violations.
This hearing is timely for two reasons. First, we have to
continue to shine a light and show the terrible abuses that are
happening with respect to human rights in Iran, and secondly,
Secretary Kerry continues to tell us that we can trust and rely
on our negotiations with them and that they need more time. And
for me, I submit that a country that is guilty of such
egregious abuse cannot be trusted, should not be trusted, and
is not worthy of the respect of the world community. Thank you
for being here today.
Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, Mr. Trott.
I would like to now introduce our very distinguished panel
beginning first with Shayan Arya who is an expert in Iran, who
is also a human rights and political activist. He was elected
to the Central Committee of the Constitutionalist Party of Iran
in which he served multiple terms. He has co-authored numerous
articles focusing on the Iranian regime's human rights
violations, internal politics, and terrorist activities. The
articles have been published around the world in publications
such as the Wall Street Journal, The Australian, the Washington
Times, Jerusalem Post, and Strategic Outlook.
We will then hear from Mr. Mohsen Sazegara who was part of
the 1979 Islamic Revolution and one of the founders of the
Islamic Revolutionary Guards. He held several positions within
the regime in the first decade after the revolution, but
declined to accept any positions in it after 1988. He has
published three newspapers and two monthly magazines which were
all shut down by the regime, and has been arrested and
imprisoned four times in Iran. While out of the country for
medical treatments in 2004, he was sentenced to 6 years of
jail. He has continued his political opposition and is
currently the president of the Research Institute on
Contemporary Iran.
Then we will hear from Mr. Anthony Vance, who oversees the
development of the U.S. Baha'i Office of Public Affairs'
programs and strategic direction. He joined the office in 2010
after spending 4 years at the Baha'i World Center in Haifa,
Israel, representing it to the diplomatic community, civil
society, and to the host government. A lawyer by training, he
spent 21 years in the U.S. Agency for International Development
in legal and managerial positions in Washington, Cote d'Ivoire,
Kenya, Botswana, and Egypt.
Mr. Arya, if you could begin.
STATEMENT OF MR. SHAYAN ARYA, CENTRAL COMMITTEE MEMBER,
CONSTITUTIONALIST PARTY OF IRAN (LIBERAL DEMOCRAT)
Mr. Arya. Chairman Smith, Chairman Ros-Lehtinen, and
honorable members of the subcommittees, it is really an honor
to appear before you today to discuss the human rights
situation in Iran under the Islamic regime. It is an important
issue that has unfortunately been overlooked by the
international community in light of the current negotiations
between Iran and P5+1 since the election of Hassan Rouhani as
President of Iran in 2013.
Since that time, the Iranian regime, its supporters and
lobbyists have tried vigorously to convince the international
community in general and the U.S. administration in particular
that something has fundamentally changed for the better in
Iran, that the Iran Islamic Republic can be trusted to act
according to Iran's national interests and not its ideological
ones. Unfortunately however the regime's actions speak louder
than its words.
Iran, after China, currently has the highest number of
executions in the world, and since Rouhani's election there has
not been a reduction in that statistic. To the contrary, there
has been a significant increase. In 2014 alone, eight
individuals believed to be under 18 years of age at the time of
their alleged crimes were reportedly executed. Human rights
activists in Iran put the total number of executions for 2013
and 2014 at 1,181 people.
The execution of juveniles is not the only crime committed
by the Islamic Republic. The Islamic regime systematically
tries to brainwash children. On this important issue I would
like to draw your attention to the research done by the
Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School
Education, IMPACT-se. The Islamic Republic systematically
indoctrinates children and prepares them for war and encourage
the hostile attitude toward non-Muslims with children
instructed not to take unbelievers, Jews and Christians as
friends.
Again, against this background is it any surprise that
almost all religious minorities in Iran suffer officially
sanctioned discriminations? Baha'is are banned from all
government positions, are not allowed to have places of
worship, and are banned from teaching the faith and even attend
universities. In some cases they have even been denied burial
sites and their cemeteries are systematically destroyed.
Evangelical Christians are suffering as well. Even Muslims
who do not conform to the official interpretation of Islam face
heresy charges. Last September, Mohsen Amir-Aslani was executed
for insulting the prophet Jonah by declaring that his story in
Koran was symbolic rather than factual.
Even traditional Shiite clerics who reject official
interpretation of Islam are persecuted. Ayatollah Hossein
Kazemeyni Boroujerdi is a traditional Shiite cleric who openly
questions the legitimacy of the Islamic Republic and advocates
a secular regime and has been imprisoned since 2007. Followers
of Ahl-e Haqq religion are also under enormous pressure.
Several members of the Ahl-e Haqq community have self-immolated
in recent years to protest against religious persecution in
Iran.
The Nematollahi-Gonabadi Sufi order is another example.
Many members of this Sufi order are presently imprisoned and
several places of their worship in Isfahan and other cities
have been demolished. Mohammad Ali Taheri, founder of a
spiritual group, was also arrested in 2011. In fact yesterday
some of his supporters came out in support of him and many of
them were arrested, just yesterday.
Iran is one of the few countries in the world that
prosecutes lawyers for representing their clients. Ms. Nasrin
Sotudeh and Abdolfattah Soltani are good examples. Mr. Soltani,
a leading human rights lawyer has even been denied medical
attention despite the fact that even prison doctors have
written a letter recommending that he be treated outside the
prison.
Last March, Maryam Shafipour, 29 years old, was sentenced
to 7 years in prison for peaceful protests. Many student
activists such as Majid Tavakkoli, Bhareh Hedayat, Sayed Zia
Nabavi, Majid Dori, and Navid Khanjani have spent years, years
in prisons for no crimes other than exercising their rights to
peaceful protest.
A young brilliant scientist, Mr. Omid Kokabee, has been
incarcerated in Evin prison since 2011. He was charged with
espionage and for refusing not to work on military research
projects with the government. That was his only crime.
Atena Farghadani, a children's rights advocate currently is
in prison and she is on hunger strike. And what she's asking,
not be released but to be moved from Gharchak prison which is a
notoriously substandard women prison, to be moved back to Evin
prison. And she's in a very dire situation right now from what
I heard yesterday.
Political activists such as Heshmatollah Tabarzadi have
spent years in prison for their peaceful activities. Just a few
days ago, Masood Arab Choobdar, Saeed Shirzad, Hamid Babaei who
were exiled from Tehran to Rajaei Shahr prison, which is
another notoriously dangerous prison in Iran, they were beaten
and severely abused. Another Baha'i prisoner, Shahram Chinian
was also beaten, so severely that his face was unrecognizable
by his friends.
Last July, Iranian writer Arzhang Davoodi was sentenced to
death after spending nearly 11 years in prison on new charges
of enmity against God in relation to his political activism and
writings in support of a secular system. Journalists are
another group that suffer under the Islamic Republic. According
to Committee to Protect Journalists currently there are 30
journalists in Iran in prison.
These cases are simply a reflection of the Iranian regime's
repressive domestic practices. The main question then is
whether these practices are changing and whether Iran's new
President Hassan Rouhani is really a reformer. To understand
Mr. Rouhani's relationship to the state it is necessary to
review his background. He has been a member of Islamic regime's
leadership for the past 36 years and therefore has been an
integral part of every aggressive move that the Islamic
Republic has made since 1982. From creation and training of
Hezbollah to the 1983 attack on U.S. and French military forces
in Lebanon, the assassination of nearly 200 Iranian dissidents
in Europe throughout the 1980s and 1990s, the 1994 bombing in
Buenos Aires, and more recently to the Iranian's asymmetric
campaign targeting U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq.
It is impossible to believe that Mr. Rouhani had no
knowledge of these actions. Rouhani's cabinet choice for the
post of Justice Minister, Mostafa Pourmohammadi, speaks volumes
to his commitment to the issue of human rights. Pourmohammadi
had direct role in the extrajudicial executions of thousands of
political prisoners in the 1980s.
As we all know, Iran is the only country in the Middle East
where people are by and large are friendly to America,
therefore it is crucial that America stands up to the Islamic
Republic on this important issue. I would like to encourage the
honorable members of the subcommittees on behalf of all those
who are suffering in the hands of the Islamic regime to link
any easing or lifting of sanctions not just to the outcome of
the nuclear negotiations but also to the improvement in the
human rights situation in Iran.
With that I would like to thank you again for this
opportunity and would be more than happy to answer any
questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Arya follows:]
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----------
Mr. Smith. Thank you very much for your testimony, and
without objection your full statement will be made a part of
the record as well as our other distinguished witnesses.
Mr. Sazegara, please proceed.
STATEMENT OF MR. MOHSEN SAZEGARA, PRESIDENT, RESEARCH INSTITUTE
ON CONTEMPORARY IRAN
Mr. Sazegara. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you,
subcommittee members.
During the last three and a half decades, the Iranian
people have bitterly experienced suppression of their
fundamental freedoms and rights and witnessed brutal crackdowns
of pro-freedom movements in Iran. I deeply regret to say that
extensive and systematic violations of human rights,
persecutions, unfair trials, unfounded imprisonments, tortures,
rapes, and extrajudicial executions still continue despite the
pledges Mr. Rouhani had made to change this trend during his
election campaign in 2013.
Regardless of some rare cosmetic and non-systemic release
of a dozen of well-known prisoners in 2013 and 2014, the human
rights abuses have not only continued but also increased in
many respects, including but not limited to imprisonment of
human rights activists, journalists, bloggers, university
students and teachers, workers, ethnic and religious
minorities, and political opposition.
In 2014, the cases of arrest, detention, and imprisonment
of activists illustrate a 74-percent increase as compared to
2013. This average increase comprises 53 percent increase in
ethnic minorities cases, 10 percent in religious, 93 percent
students, 410 percent freedom of expression and conscience, and
354 percent in labor activists cases.
Another human rights violation in Iran includes persistent
and pervasive assault on women on a continued basis under the
pretext of disrespecting hijab, education and employment
segregation, and being banned from appearing on stage for
musical performances.
Torture of political prisoners continues to coerce
fabricated confessions that are then used to justify brutal
crackdowns. According to first hand reports received from
former political prisoners, the main methods of torture include
whipping and assault, sexual torture including rape, and
psychological torture such as prolonged solitary confinement.
These reports are also in conformity with the reports by Dr.
Shaheed, the U.N. Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human
Rights in Iran.
Execution in Iran has increased from 544 known cases in
2012 to more than 800 known cases in 2014, it being the highest
per capita rate in the world. The numbers are however suspected
to be higher since many of these executions are carried out in
secret and the regime has consistently refrained from releasing
numbers and denied the U.N. Special Rapporteur's access to the
country.
These are only examples of a range of human rights
violation categories. Such extensive and systematic violations
of human rights should not come as a surprise. Despite talk of
moderation, Rouhani has indulged impunity and rewarded the
perpetrators of such grave abuses. His present Justice Minister
Mr. Pourmohammadi who played, as a member of the notorious
``death committee,'' a key role in the 1988 prison massacre,
has been appointed by this very ``moderate'' government.
In the end, I cordially submit that a standing subcommittee
be formed under the Subcommittee on the Middle East and North
Africa in order to monitor and take all the necessary measures
to draw the world's attention to the grave human rights abuses
in Iran. Enclosed I have submitted the first two proposals to
be put on the docket of this subcommittee. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Sazegara follows:]
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----------
Mr. Smith. Thank you very much.
Yes, thank you so much for that testimony. Both of you
brought up the fact that the Justice Minister is in this
``moderate'' government serving in a high position despite his
horrific past.
I would like to now ask Mr. Vance if you would proceed.
STATEMENT OF MR. ANTHONY VANCE, DIRECTOR, U.S. BAHA'I OFFICE OF
PUBLIC AFFAIRS
Mr. Vance. Chairman Smith, Chairman Ros-Lehtinen and also
Chairman Chabot, I would like to thank you for giving me the
opportunity to testify on the situation of the Baha'is of Iran.
A little background, I think, is appropriate. The Baha'i
Faith is an independent world religion with over 5 million
followers in over 200 countries and territories representing
virtually every racial, ethnic, and national group on the
planet.
The faith originated in Iran. It spread rapidly in the mid-
1840s immediately after its inception and included several
notable clerics among its initial adherents. This triggered a
violent reaction instigated or supported by a majority of the
clergy, during which some 20,000 Baha'is were killed over
little more than a decade.
The primary reason that Baha'is are persecuted is
theological. Most of the Islamic clergy in Iran believes that
Islam is the final religion of God. The Baha'i Faith, a
religion that arose after Islam, is therefore viewed by most of
Iran's clergy as heresy and blasphemy, and Baha'is are viewed
as apostates.
In addition, Iran's clerics view certain teachings of the
Baha'i Faith as threatening. For instance, the Baha'i Faith
does not have a clergy and holds that each individual has the
duty to investigate spiritual truth and arrive at his or her
own beliefs. In addition, Baha'is believe strongly in the
equality of women and men.
Now while the intense brutality against Baha'is began to
subside toward the end of the nineteenth century, unequal
treatment, social hostilities and sporadic surges in violence
continued during much of the twentieth century. After the
Islamic Revolution of 1979, Baha'is became the target of severe
and systematic state-sponsored persecution and it became
official government policy to oppress Baha'is.
In the years following the revolution, over 200 Baha'is
were killed, the majority by execution. Thousands of Baha'is
were imprisoned, many of them tortured. Baha'i holy places were
destroyed and Baha'i cemeteries have repeatedly been attacked
and desecrated, including the current ongoing excavation of the
large Baha'i cemetery in Shiraz.
The government also made and continues to make concerted
efforts to impoverish the Baha'i community. After the
revolution, Baha'is were dismissed from government jobs and
denied pensions and private employers have been pressured not
to hire Baha'is. Baha'is still suffer frequent raids on their
homes and businesses, including a recent spate of shop
closures, and their property is routinely seized without
compensation.
Baha'is were also dismissed from university positions after
the revolution, and Baha'i students have been excluded from the
nation's universities and continue to be so. The seven members
of the former ad hoc leadership group of the Baha'i community
are among the 100 Baha'is currently imprisoned in Iran, nearly
twice the number that were imprisoned at the end of 2010.
In the last several months there has also been a disturbing
surge in anti-Baha'i hate propaganda in state-sponsored media
outlets. In 2010 and 2011, approximately 22 anti-Baha'i pieces
were appearing every month. In 2014, the number of anti-Baha'i
pieces rose to approximately 401 per month, 18 times the
previous level.
In July 2013, the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei reissued a
religious decree prohibiting Iranian Muslims from associating
with members of the ``deviant sect,'' a well-known reference to
Baha'is. The clerical establishment has long promoted the view
that Baha'is are ritually unclean and that the blood of Baha'is
is mobah, meaning that it can be spilled with impunity.
Last October, the review of Iran's human rights record
before the U.N. Human Rights Council revealed that Iran had
failed to live up to dozens of promises made during its last
Universal Periodic Review in 2010, including several related to
the Baha'is. Yet in an astonishingly blatant falsehood, Iran's
written response to the council declared ``minorities,
including Baha'is, enjoyed a full range of opportunities and
privileges.''
It is our hope that at the follow-up session on Iran that
will be held next month, responsible nations will emphasize the
persecution of the Baha'is and countless other individuals and
will hold the Iranian Government to account for its gross
violations of human rights. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Vance follows:]
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----------
Mr. Smith. Mr. Vance, thank you so very much for your
testimony, and to all of you. We will stand in a brief recess.
We have three votes on the floor of the House right now, and
then we will resume our sitting of the two subcommittees. But
thank you so very much, and I apologize for the inconvenience.
[Recess.]
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen [presiding]. The subcommittee will come to
order. We had a round of votes and Chairman Smith was called
for an important meeting, but as soon as he gets done with that
he will be back. But thank you for your excellent testimony,
and I will begin the question and answer part. Thank you so
much.
As I had said in my opening statement, despite the
administration's lip service to the issue of human rights, they
have been effectively ignoring human rights in our foreign
policy discussion and implementation to the detriment of
millions who are suffering under tyranny. As we know, actions
speak louder than words and this administration has thrown
human rights to the back burner, especially in places like my
native homeland of Cuba and in Iran where the administration
has been desperate to secure deals with these tyrannical
regimes.
So I am sorry if I am not going to pronounce your names
correctly, but I have a very difficult name as well and I don't
get upset when people don't know how to say it.
Mr. Arya?
Mr. Arya. Arya.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Arya. You testified that human rights
have ``been overlooked by the international community in light
of current negotiations between Iran and the P5+1.'' How has
the human rights situation in Iran changed in these
negotiations under Rouhani?
Mr. Arya. Well, Madam Chairman, as I said it is getting
worse. I mean if you look at the Islamic regime, it is in their
nature when they feel secure they just become aggressive. When
they see that there is no attention being paid to the issue of
human rights, for example, they just do whatever they want and
they see no reason why they should stop. They get rid of their
opponents, they do all kinds of things that is just true to
their nature.
But everything has gotten worse and all the statistics show
that everything has gotten worse, from the number of
executions, from the number of juveniles being executed, from
religious minorities, everything has been worse under Rouhani.
And my take, I think, is that international community hasn't
paid enough attention to this issue, and they haven't been
forcing Rouhani to stand up to his campaign promises and things
of that nature. They just focus on the nuclear issue and then
push everything aside. So that is unfortunate, I believe, that
everything has gotten worse, and it is time for international
community and U.S. administration especially to pay attention
to that issue as well.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Well, I agree. And I see such
similarities in my native homeland of Cuba when on December
17th the President announced we will have diplomatic relations
with the Castro regime. And tomorrow another round of
negotiations will take place in the State Department and the
lead negotiator for that agreement is Josefina Vidal who was a
spy for Cuba and was actually expelled by the United States
because of her espionage activities, now she is in charge of
the negotiations.
What signal does that tell the Castro regime? We can do
whatever we want and everything is forgiven, and it sends a
terrible signal to the human rights activists. That is why it
comes as no surprise that since the President's announcement on
December 17th, there has been a record number of arrests in
Cuba. You would think that at the very least Raul Castro would
tone this down while people are paying attention, but the sad
fact is, as you pointed out, people are not paying attention.
And so if the United States does not lead the way, the
international community will be silent. They will be silent in
Cuba. They were silent in Venezuela. And they are silent in
Iran. That is why the United States has such a pivotal role to
play when it comes to talking about human rights and doing
something about human rights. Because if not, it sends a
message to Rouhani that he can do whatever he wants, keep
executing people, keep jailing people for their religious
beliefs, we will look the other way.
And that sends a chilling message to so many people living
under this yoke of tyranny in Iran who want to be free, who
want a different kind of government, but they think, well,
obviously no one is paying attention, and the international
community, they are so eager to have this nuclear deal that
they are willing to look the other way as well.
What kind of support do you see for the issue of Iranian
human rights internationally in human rights organizations, et
cetera?
Mr. Arya. Well, I believe that on every arena from the
administration to the Congress, this issue should be brought up
continuously. In the United Nations, everywhere. Because
without that the Islamic regime won't do anything then. I mean
they will continue to abuse the Iranian people's rights.
A very good example, if I may, the way President Reagan
dealt with Gorbachev, they wanted to make a deal with
Gorbachev, they had good relationship with Gorbachev. They
negotiated with him. They did all of that. But at the same
time, when President Reagan went to Moscow he made a point to
meet with the dissidents. And that sent a very good message,
encouraging message, to all the anti-Soviet dissidents all over
the former Soviet Union.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. That they were not forgotten.
Mr. Arya. Exactly.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. People cared about them.
Mr. Arya. Exactly. The attitude of U.S. and European
countries and all the other countries should be the same way.
That whatever negotiations that goes between, I mean we
understand. I am a member of opposition. I advocate regime
change in Iran. But at the same time I understand that
international relations and security concerns dictates that
sometimes they have to negotiate with the Islamic regime. That
is fine. But at the same time that negotiation, that
improvement in relationship should not come at the expense of
Iranian people's rights to freedom. That is the most
important----
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. It is not an either/or.
Mr. Arya. Exactly.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. And yet we give that message to the
people with whom we are dealing whether it is Rouhani, whether
it is Castro. They will say, well, we are just going to talk
about diplomatic relations with Cuba, we will ignore human
rights. We are just going to talk about a nuclear deal with
Rouhani, we will ignore human rights. And that is a great boost
to these regimes to keep harassing, intimidating and jailing
opposition leaders because they have actually been given a
green light to do so by our very own Government.
Mr. Arya. I agree.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Mr. Sazegara?
Mr. Sazegara. Yes.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you. You were one of the founding
members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps before being
imprisoned for your opposition to the regime. What can you tell
us about the inner workings of the IRGC and the Iranian regime,
its financing capabilities and the risk that the IRGC poses to
U.S. interests and to our regional security interest?
Mr. Sazegara. I was one of the founders of the
Revolutionary Guard and one of the writers of the Charter of
Revolutionary Guard in the first 3 months of victory of
revolution, and then I left the guard and went to the National
Radio and Television of Iran. But I followed the changes in the
Revolutionary Guard during the last 36 years.
Right now the Revolutionary Guard is, I believe, a kind of
unique organization and maybe all around the world, because at
the same time Revolutionary Guard is like a political party, a
terrorist organization, a mafia group involved in the smuggling
of drugs, alcoholic beverages, sex traffic in Iran, and a
complex holding company. It owns several companies, huge
manufacturing and trading companies of Iran. And its
intelligence organization which directly works under command of
son of the Ayatollah, the leader of Iran, is more brutal than
Ministry of Intelligence and more powerful.
So a part of at least the most important part of the
nuclear project of Iran is controlled by the Revolutionary
Guard as well. Besides that I think that especially these
coming years, I mean 2015 and 2016, because of illness of the
leader, the political competition in Iran amongst several
factions especially inside the Revolutionary Guard will be
increased. And for this simple reason, as a political activist
I am really, really afraid of more brutality, more separation
of the people during this year and the year after.
And the economic crisis which has been created not only
because of the sanctions, more than the sanctions are
mismanagement and oil price, which has been decreased about 60
percent, and several other factors will affect several aspects
of Iranian people on this year.
And again, riots, strikes, protests of workers, of
teachers, I believe that we will suffer brutality by
Revolutionary Guard this year and the year after. I want to
add----
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. In Iran itself.
Mr. Sazegara. Yes.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. And what about the risks that they pose
for our interests and regional concerns?
Mr. Sazegara. As you know, the Quds Force of Revolutionary
Guard, which has about 14,000 members, is the special division
of Revolutionary Guard which is in charge of out-of-Iran
operations. I think that because of the internal affairs of
Iran, the Quds Force of Revolutionary Guard will increase the
out-of-Iran operations and adventurism in the region.
And I say adventurism because they know from the period of
war between Iran and Iraq that in crisis and military situation
and in out-of-Iran crisis they can have the upper hand in
internal politics. For instance, recently the missile platforms
in Golan Heights, which were attacked by Israelis and
destroyed, as far as I know there are several projects like
that in the whole region, or assassination of some prominent
opposition figures outside Iran by new methods that they hire
some thugs to attack them just by knives or daggers or
something like that, the example that happened in Jerusalem 2
or 3 months ago, or other crises.
I mean I expect for the year coming acceleration of out-of-
Iran operations, terrorist operations, and creating some
conflicts too because of, especially because of the internal
competitions in Iran.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. To take away attention from their inner
problems, have they focused on that?
Mr. Sazegara. And they know that in such situations they
become more powerful in internal politics if they say that yes
we are involved in Iraq. This is the war over there in Yemen,
with Israel, especially with Israel, in the border of Israel,
or Hezbollah Lebanon involvement in some battles against Israel
or several others that, other operations that they have done so
far. They can have the upper hand in internal politics as well.
I want to add to Mr. Arya's that as far as I know, Mr.
Kerry has agreed with Mr. Zarif to put any human rights issue
off the table. That is what, at the first terms of the rounds
of negotiations Zarif has said that if you bring any human
rights issue on the table, then Ayatollah Khamenei will order
us to leave the table. So they have confidence that there will
be no pressure----
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. They don't have to worry about it.
Mr. Sazegara. Yes.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. It will be off the table.
Mr. Sazegara. Iranians watch the U.S. policies through some
windows like Voice of America, and unfortunately on these days
they don't hear anything even from Voice of America. And the
regime sells the idea to the people that see, we have behind a
curtain----
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. We are fine.
Mr. Sazegara. We have the agreement and nobody can help
you. You look at that. There is nothing to say about that.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. And the opposition feels dispirited.
Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
Mr. Vance, the regime's treatment of Baha'is is getting
worse under Rouhani, not better. Can you describe the treatment
and the abuse of Baha'is under Rouhani and what does the
persecution of the Baha'is in Iran mean for human rights in
general? And what more can you tell me about the prisoner of
conscience that I had adopted, Rozita Vaseghi, her health, her
current situation, including the likelihood that Iranian
authorities will try to imprison her again? Thank you, sir.
Mr. Vance. Sure. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Well, we had been, first, we were guardedly optimistic when
President Rouhani was elected that he would actually improve
the situation, especially since he had promised, one of his
election promises was to put together a draft charter of
citizens' rights and have it circulated and finalized. He did
actually issue a draft in November 2013.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Oh, you should read the Cuban
Constitution. It is a beauty. They don't follow one word of it,
but it is beautiful.
Mr. Vance. We were very disappointed with the draft because
it made all of the rights under it contingent on the Iranian
Constitution and on Iranian law. So it didn't actually hold out
any promise for any future improvements. And I think the draft
got a great deal of pushback and criticism from a number of
circles, so it has never been actually circulated again, to the
best of our knowledge. And that, I think, signaled what we were
beginning to see, and that is that one of the trends--we have
always had Baha'is who have been harassed, raids on homes,
raids on businesses. The amount of physical abuse in those
raids has actually increased over the last couple of years and
certainly has not decreased under President Rouhani. Baha'is
have, because they are excluded from so many professions in
Iran, they have become largely small business people running
their own small businesses. And there is a very large amount of
economic harassment refusing either to provide or renew
business licenses, closing shops arbitrarily.
In October, for example, on October 25th, in Kerman and a
couple of other cities nearby, there were 79 shops that were
closed simply because the shopkeepers had observed a Baha'i
holy day. And so the shops were actually sealed. But perhaps
the most disturbing thing that has occurred, at least in my
opinion, is the increase in hate propaganda. Because it has
been shown in many societies that it is a prerequisite, or at
least it presages in many societies a much more serious
crackdown on the population that is being targeted.
I had mentioned that, in 2014, there were 18 times the
number of anti-Baha'i articles, not just criticizing Baha'is
but portraying them as being agents of the United States,
agents of Russia, agents of Israel, accusing them of all sorts
of immorality. It is all designed to create a sense in people's
minds that persecution of Baha'is is justified.
So based on the very unfortunate history of good portions
of the twentieth century, I am much more concerned about that
than any other single factor. And certainly that would be in
the control of, all of this is state-sponsored media and that
is certainly within the control or should be in the control of
President Rouhani.
So we are concerned about that. We are concerned that for
human rights in general in Iran, because the Baha'is are the
largest non-Muslim religious minority in the country and
because they have been traditionally despised to a greater
degree than any other group by the Muslim clergy, we know that
if things were to improve for the Baha'is, they would improve
for everybody because it is inconceivable that things could get
better for the Baha'is in Iran without them also getting better
for other groups. So in a sense we are that barometer, let us
say, of what, how we are being treated is a barometer for the
rest of the civil society.
And as to Rozita Vaseghi, we are delighted that she was
released from prison in Mashhad on January 21st. You had noted
earlier that she is uncertain as to what her future is because
she had two 5-year sentences and it was unclear whether they
were going to be successive or concurrent. The way things stand
at the moment they were concurrent. They released her.
But she was also told that she might have another 2-year
sentence, and so we don't know what is going to happen with
that. She certainly has health problems that have to be dealt
with, and rather than get into the details of that I can simply
say that 5 years in prison in Mashhad took a definite health
toll on her. Thank you.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Which was one of the objectives of the
regime. Thank you very much. Excellent, excellent answers. We
appreciate it.
Mr. Cicilline?
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you again for your very, very important testimony. I
think it is very clear to anyone that has looked at this issue
that the human rights abuses in Iran are horrific and are
contrary to basic American values and universal values of human
rights. And I think the challenge for us is to determine what
is the most effective way for us to try to change that as
responsible world leaders and part of the international
community.
And so my first question really is, is there any sense that
President Rouhani, even if he were inclined to change his view
on human rights, would be empowered to actually make
substantial changes in the condition of basic human rights in
Iran, or is the Supreme Leader responsible for this set of
practices such that the President wouldn't actually have the
ability or the capacity to change it? Because I think it is
important to kind of know where our leverage points should be
in the conversation to begin. I don't know if anyone has a
sense of that.
Mr. Sazegara. According to the Constitution of Islamic
Republic, President is the head of the executive power. And
judiciary power is controlled by the leader, the head of
judiciary power is appointed by the leader, and all the judges
and prosecutors are appointed by that head.
And Rouhani just theoretically doesn't have so much power
to change some parts of these human rights abuses in Iran, but
at least he can do something. For instance, changing his
Minister of Justice, a notorious killer, a notorious person to
violate human rights and in charge of massacre, or he can put
pressure on keeping the freedom of press in Iran, because the
Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance is in charge of the
press and it is controlled by Rouhani, but he doesn't do that.
Or changing the situation, for instance, in Iranian
universities with respect to teachers' associations, labor
associations, but he has not done anything with respect to
these parts.
He can do something to help the civil society of Iran to
confront the suppression of the rights of the people of Iran,
but so far he has not done anything. And even he has not said
anything about the home arrest of the leaders of Green Movement
of Iran or the other political prisoners.
So I believe that some parts of the violations has happened
by the hands of the Minister of Intelligence, while the
Minister of Intelligence is a member of the cabinet. So I think
that yes, although he is not directly in charge of the
judiciary power, he can do many things by the tools that he has
in the executive power, by the people, by the civil society of
Iran and support at least the basic freedoms of people of Iran,
but he has not done anything.
Mr. Arya. I would like to add I agree with Mr. Sazegara as
well, however, I believe it is a mistake to believe, to think
of Rouhani as someone separated from the whole totality of the
regime. As I said, he has been part of this regime from the
beginning and he has been serving this regime at the highest
levels, security levels, from the beginning until now. So it is
foolhardy to me that we think of him as an outsider who wanted
to come and do some reforms. He may have presented himself
during the election as such or to the international community
that he really is trying to make things better, but things are
not really in his hands. The judicial system is not really in
my hands, the security system is not really in my hand, this is
not in my hand, that is not in my hand, all I can do is this
and that.
But he is part of this regime. I mean he has been
approving--I mean the Mr. Shariatmadari is the notorious editor
of Kayhan, a very hardline, radical newspaper in Iran. He said
it and I agree with him. He said that what is all this--and I
am paraphrasing. He said what is all this talk about him
wanting to release the leaders of the Green Movement, Mr.
Mousavi, Mr. Rahnavard, and Mr. Karroubi? He said he voted for
their imprisonment. At the National Security Council he voted
for them to be incarcerated. What is this all talk about? I
mean to me it is a mistake to think of him separately.
Mr. Cicilline. And is there any evidence that you have seen
that international pressure that may have been made on the
human rights abuses as having any effect on the regime? Would
you talk a little bit about it? Yes.
Mr. Sazegara. Yes, yes, definitely.
Mr. Cicilline. And so things like this hearing I assume are
helpful because they are helping to bring attention to this
issue. Similarly, if we were to enact a comprehensive statement
of our kind of affirmation of basic human rights, would that be
useful? Yes, okay.
Mr. Sazegara. Yes, I can mention several cases including my
case. I was in confines for 79 days. I was on a long hunger
strike. And 800 students were arrested with me when they
arrested me including my son who was a university student in
those days. And international pressure was really, really
effective to release not only me but all those students.
And I think that more than just telling, and just by
statements of that, something like Helsinki Accord, something
which happened that put real pressure on the Communist bloc.
Right now the sanctions has worked. They have brought the
regime to the negotiation table. If we can use at least a part
of these sanctions targeted to human rights, I believe, at
least the people who are in charge of the violation of human
rights in Iran be under sanction, I think that it works. And
the letter soon will send the right signal to the people of
Iran that the international community is concerned and puts
real pressure on this regime.
Mr. Arya. May I add something? I agree. And one thing I
would really like to, if anything I would like to relay in this
hearing is that Islamic regime only responds to force. Not just
military force, but when they see that the international
community is standing up firmly on any issue they eventually
back off.
In Europe during the 1980s and 1990s, more than 200 Iranian
dissidents were assassinated all over Europe. European
countries kind of looked the other way. They said, well, it is
this element of a radical group in the regime or that group,
and it didn't stop. It only stopped when after the massacre in
Mykonos all the European countries got together, they pulled
back their Ambassadors and they imposed some sanctions. Since
then there hasn't been any assassinations that I know of. So
they respond to firmness and united front, they will respond to
that. Otherwise they will just do whatever they want.
Mr. Cicilline. I just ask the chair if I might just ask the
last two things. If you would speak to the current situation
for members of the LGBT community in Iran, specifically are
there concerns about the basic human rights of lesbian, gay,
bisexual, and transgender community, and also if you could
speak to any information you might have about Jason Rezaian, if
I am pronouncing his name correctly, who is an American
journalist and who was detained and has been detained. I
understand that he hasn't been able to have his defense counsel
meet with him, and whether or not there are current efforts
underway that you are aware of to secure his release.
Mr. Sazegara. As far as I know about Jason Rezaian, he has
been kept in a confined cell and under pressure for TV
confessions. And they have taped a TV confession from him that
he is an agent of CIA and the secret services, and he has----
Mr. Cicilline. This is the Washington Post correspondent,
just for the people, yes.
Mr. Sazegara. Yes. And the Revolutionary Guard has done
that. And he has confessed that one of the relatives of Rouhani
in his office has helped him and his connection, so they have
made something out of his confessions to put pressure on
Rouhani for internal clashes in the regime.
So I know that Jason Rezaian is just a journalist and has
not done anything, but this is what they do, how they behave.
This is what they call it to make a scenario out of any
political prisoner. So they have a TV confession from him, and
I doubt that they finish this case easily unless you have a
very, very heavy pressure on the regime.
Mr. Arya. I have nothing to add to that.
Mr. Cicilline. And with respect to the LGBT community?
Mr. Arya. LGBT community are again it is against Sharia
law, being gay, and they are under enormous pressure. The only
group that I know of that are not kind of tolerated, if they
want to go through sex change then they have provisions to
allow that. But that is only a small group of LGBT community.
If somebody is gay and wants to remain gay and wants to be
lesbian or remain lesbian without going through sex change and
things like that they will be persecuted. I mean I don't
exactly know the time, but recently they told two gay men--just
punish them, to kill them as part of the punishment prescribed
in Sharia for gay people.
So I don't see any kind of light in the end of the tunnel
for that community in Iran so long as the Islamic regime is in
power because they won't tolerate it. Because it goes against
everything that they claim to stand by, so it undermines their
legitimacy, undermines their claim of legitimacy in terms of
religious doctrine that they prescribe to. I see no improvement
in their situation except that small little group who want to
go through the sex change. Other than that they are in terrible
shape just like any other.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you very much again, and I thank the
chair.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much.
Mr. DeSantis?
Mr. DeSantis. Thank you Madam Chairman.
Mr. Sazegara, when you joined the Islamic Revolution in
1979, you were there it seemed to be from, I read your bio,
about 10 years before you left?
Mr. Sazegara. Yes.
Mr. DeSantis. 1988, is that when you left government?
Mr. Sazegara. Yes.
Mr. DeSantis. So did you change or was it the regime that
changed?
Mr. Sazegara. Both.
Mr. DeSantis. So at the time you were, in 1979, because as
I remember that time or think about the time, I was just a kid
but there was dissatisfaction with the Shah, but there were a
lot of people who didn't want an Islamic Revolution. They
wanted a secular revolution. They just didn't want to have that
ruling elite in power, and then obviously you had the Mullahs
who wanted a Sharia revolution. So were you expecting a Sharia
revolution or did you just think you would remove the Shah and
have a chance to have a better Iran?
Mr. Sazegara. Better to say that everybody on those days,
the majority of the people, 35 million Iranian population those
days, everybody was eager to have a revolution, an ideological
revolution. At least the university educated people like me, we
didn't think that an Islamic regime would be based on Sharia
and the Mullahs would get all the power.
In those days we were affected by leftists, and a version
of Islam that I can call a revolutionary, ideological version
of Islam was dominant in the Islamic movement and was effective
to mobilize the people against Shah. But gradually after
victory of revolution, the Mullahs got the upper hand by of
course the leader of revolution, Ayatollah Khomenei who was a
Grand Ayatollah. And gradually other factions of anti-Shah
movement were dismissed, were suppressed, were massacred,
during one decade. So anybody who didn't agree with them was
under pressure.
I personally, the change that, my changes were not only in
this part from the theoretical point of view but in action,
because for 4 or 5 years I was the head of the biggest
industrial complex of Iran which owns about 140 huge
manufacturing companies of Iran. And in practice I found out
that many policies that we thought to run the country on were
wrong as well, so I gradually----
Mr. DeSantis. So it was a perfect storm for you.
Mr. Sazegara. Yes, I left the regime in 1988.
Mr. DeSantis. So what did you think when the Ayatollah
started to fund and support groups like Hezbollah in Lebanon
that would conduct terrorist attacks?
Mr. Sazegara. It had started from the first decade. The
idea of exportation of revolution was born with the revolution,
like many other revolutions of course.
Mr. DeSantis. And so that was a natural outgrowth to have
outposts in Lebanon where you would have people who could
conduct operations?
Mr. Sazegara. Yes, and especially that several activists of
the Islamic Revolution were trained in Lebanon and they lived
in Lebanon for several years. And if precisely I can say it had
started from an Office of Liberation Movements All Around the
World in the Revolutionary Guard in 1981-1982, and gradually it
was changed to Quds Corps and later it became Quds Force which
were in charge of organizations like Hezbollah in Lebanon.
Mr. DeSantis. So an attack such as the attack that was
conducted on the U.S. Marines in Beirut in 1983, that would
have been just a basic application of their revolutionary
mindset, correct?
Mr. Sazegara. Yes.
Mr. DeSantis. So let me ask you now, fast forward, clearly
this regime is one of the most repressive in the world. There
was a chance it seemed in 2009 with the Green Movement where
there were a lot of people who were really brave to express
their dissatisfaction.
The administration here in the United States made the
decision that that was not something that they wanted to
support. I think the reason was because they thought that that
would jeopardize their ability to have a constructive
relationship with the Ayatollah.
The President has written the Ayatollah a number of
letters. I think that was a mistake. I think that we need to be
supporting groups who are challenging the regime and standing
up for human rights in Iran. Do you agree that the United
States should have been supportive of the Green Movement?
Mr. Sazegara. Yes. Still I wear this green wristband. On
that summer, summer of 2009, I was in Washington, DC, and I was
one of the activists of the Green Movement. We had several
meetings with the officials of administrations, but yes, you
are right. No support. And in those days we didn't know that
behind the curtain they are writing some letters to the leader
of Iran----
Mr. DeSantis. Right.
Mr. Sazegara [continuing]. And some communications. But we
didn't get any real support. And besides to that on those days
I was on a weekly TV show in Voice of America, a talk show,
which was very effective in the movement because we had the
connection with the leaders of the movement. Not the leaders,
the activists of the movement, and we could give information
about the demonstrations, what is going on, and we had real
problems in the Voice of America as well. I mean lots of
pressure in the Voice of America. And at last that program was
stopped.
Mr. DeSantis. I have been frustrated, and I know that my
friend from Florida, the chairman, has mentioned this that
there is this, really, just lust to kind of have a kind of
``deal'' about these nukes. And a lot of us don't think that is
going to be effective, but it will allow the administration to
wave a sheet of paper. But because they are so eager bending
over backwards to try to get a deal, they are really turning a
blind eye to some of these human rights problems even more so
than they had been doing previously.
But with respect to this deal, Iran is one of the most
energy-rich countries in the world. What do they need nuclear
power for in terms of for peaceful purposes? I mean it just
seems to me that you could see like France or some of these
other countries that don't have access to energy, they have
hundreds of years of energy reserves and they haven't even
started fracking yet. So are you skeptical that they will use
it for peaceful purposes?
Mr. Sazegara. Yes, very much. I think that so far Iran has
spent billions of dollars in this project and the value of
whatever they have produced is just a couple of million
dollars. And definitely it is not feasible to produce nuclear
energy in Iran. Iran has the biggest supplies of natural gas in
the world. Yes, definitely.
Mr. DeSantis. Mr. Arya?
Mr. Arya. May I add something to this? I think you should
look at Islamic regime and its drive to this nuclear issue from
the perspective of their security. I believe that they want
this program for several reasons and they won't give it up. One
is that if they go nuclear they have something to show to their
own supporters. And yes, the economy is bad, yes, your lives
are terrible, all that stuff, but look at the end, we made Iran
an atomic, nuclear power. The second thing that they look for
in my opinion is that they believe that if they get the bomb
they have secured the regime.
Mr. DeSantis. Right.
Mr. Sazegara. Just like North Korea, nobody will be able to
do anything. And that security is twofold. One is from outside
threat; one is internal. I certainly believe that they in their
minds and in their hearts' calculations they think that if they
get the bomb they will be secure from outside threat, and
internally if there is a big, huge uprising they can do
anything they want without nobody being able to do anything.
They can massacre hundreds of thousands of people and nobody
will be able to do anything.
So because of all these calculations, otherwise it doesn't
make sense that they spend all this time, all this money,
enduring all these sanctions that have damaged the Iranian
economy to the point of almost collapse, hundreds and hundreds
of billions of dollars damage to this economy for what? For
generating power? It doesn't make sense. They want it for
military application. If not they don't want it to make it
maybe today or tomorrow, but they want to be so close to it
that they will have that option anytime they want and they want
to choose.
And that is a security thing in their minds, in the mind of
the Supreme Leader and the security apparatus around him, and
all the Revolutionary Guard people who are controlling
everything in Iran these days. They look at it as an insurance
policy that they will use it for saving their own regime. That
is----
Mr. DeSantis. And so if you have freedom fighters and
people who want to have an Iran in which individual liberty is
respected, Iran has an advantageous deal where they can go
nuclear, you are making it way more difficult that those forces
of progress will succeed, correct?
Mr. Arya. Exactly.
Mr. DeSantis. One final. In terms of the nuclear ambitions,
I agree with you. I mean it defies logic that they would do
this stuff unless they wanted a military application. Because
the losses that they have incurred to use it for peaceful
energy, I mean they have the energy, and so you are 100 percent
right about that.
And I agree with you about the insurance aspect, and there
are a lot of reasons why they would want to do it. What about
the offensive use of nuclear weapons? People have said that
they have said over and over again that they would like to
eliminate Israel from the map. They obviously say death to
America a lot.
And while there are other countries who may be hostile to
our allies or to us, we do have this deterrent capability,
because obviously we have nuclear weapons and other countries
may have them, but in the case of Iran, if they could take a
potshot and take out Tel Aviv, let's say, and kill millions of
Jews, they know they would get hit on return in Tehran or
wherever and lose maybe more than a few million Iranians. But
from their ideology they would say that they are hastening the
return maybe of the Twelfth Imam, the people who are killed in
Iran would be going straight to paradise.
So do you think that them with nukes with that ideology, is
that something that is a little bit different from some of the
other nuclear powers that we have seen in the past whether it
is the Soviet Union, whether it is North Korea, which is crazy
but they do want to keep themselves in power, and they are
Communists so they don't believe in an afterlife.
Mr. Arya. There definitely is that aspect to it. I mean
they are, I mean some elements within that regime they are not
really rational people. And all those calculations may come
into their play and that is why it is very dangerous for them
to have that nuclear capability in terms of military
application. However, if you look at the Islamic regime,
whenever they have felt that they have the upper hand and
whenever they have felt that they are secure they have gone
aggressive. Their behavior has changed.
I mean you look at from the very beginning, you look at the
hostage crisis when they took over the American Embassy. The
hostage takers, they admit that they only wanted to take the
hostages for a couple of days, 3 or 4 days, to send a message
and they will release them. As soon as the regime
establishment, Khomenei and people around him, realized that
the Carter administration is not going to do anything and it is
safe to keep them, they kept them for 444 days.
Iran-Iraq War, in 1982, Iranian forces liberated
Khorramshahr. They pushed all the Iraqi forces back. At that
time Iran was at the highest military position and Iraq was
afraid, all the Arab countries in the Persian Gulf were afraid
that Iran will enter the Iraqi territory. At that time
everybody offered them all kinds of incentives to accept a
ceasefire. They felt powerful. They didn't do that. They
continued on. They marched on into Iraq, and they only accepted
the ceasefire when they had nothing left basically. Even Mr.
Rezaee at one point in one of his interviews admitted that had
the war continued for another week they wouldn't even have
ammunitions for their handguns. So they push all the way there.
The same thing in Lebanon, in Syria, in Iraq and now in
Yemen. You look at their behavior in Iraq. As soon as, I mean
there is a very wonderful article in the New York Times about
how this whole thing unfolded in Iraq, when after 9/11 they
were extremely afraid that somehow America will go after them
and they started cooperating with Ambassador Crocker. They
tried to be nice to him and gave him some information and
stuff. As soon as U.S. went into Iraq and they realized that
there is no plan to move into Iran or do anything about their
regime, they went aggressive and they caused all that chaos in
Iraq.
Mr. DeSantis. They were responsible for killing hundreds of
U.S. service members.
Mr. Arya. Exactly. Why do they do that? Because as soon as
they feel secure, as soon as they feel that there is no
repercussions for their actions they go aggressive. And they
have showed it time and time and time again. If they ever get
their hands on a nuclear bomb, if you think that they are
aggressive now, wait until then. They won't even need to use
that bomb to blow up Tel Aviv or anywhere else.
There are hundreds of other things they can do to make life
miserable not only for Israelis but for the whole region, as
they have done so. I mean look at Syria, look at Iraq. I mean
the carnage that they have caused is immeasurable, I mean in
Iraq and everywhere.
Mr. DeSantis. So what in the Congress, and everyone can
opine on this. What do you recommend that we do? I know there
are things geopolitically with how we would confront Iran and
some of their proxies. But in terms of empowering opposition,
empowering people who want a different, a better Iran, because
I definitely know that although the regime is one of the most
oppressive in the world there are millions of Iranians who are
chafing under this and I think could be natural allies of ours.
So what do you recommend that the Congress can do to empower
those elements and ultimately to make Iran a better place?
Mr. Arya. If you ask me, sir, the best thing that U.S. can
do is get rid of this mentality of betting on the winning
horse, per se. We need to identify people who are truly
democratic and they are truly in line with our values in the
West and just support them, give them platforms. Not
necessarily money or anything, but just like give them
platforms to express their views.
I always think about Germany after World War II. In
Germany, we in the U.S. just did and stood by helping
everybody. They identified democratic forces within German
society. They gave them financial support. They gave them
political support. They gave them moral support. They gave them
all kinds of assistance. And gradually say Christian Democrats,
they started to grow and grow and grow and become more and more
powerful. So that is the thing. Right now, for example, all
this, the U.S. administration's attempt to say, use Quds Forces
against ISIS, is just, it is ridiculous to me. I am sorry to
say that but it is ridiculous. I mean to defeat one radical and
to replace it with another radical, you don't gain anything.
The best thing for the U.S. is to identify people who are
truly aligned with our values in the West and give them moral
support, give them platforms to expand their ideas. Right now
in Voice of America, for example, and Mr. Sazegara mentioned
it, a lot of moderate groups don't even get a chance to go over
there and express their ideas. It is almost impossible to do.
That is the best thing that U.S. Congress can do. Stand by
democratic forces, promote them and give them encouragement,
and stay away from all the other radicals whom we can use for
short period of time, because that hasn't paid off. It just
replaces one bad guy with another bad guy. And then in the
process, the ordinary people they just blame America. They say
hey, look at them. They are playing with us in order just, it
is all a big game.
The conspiracy theories are wild in the Middle East. They
look at it and say, okay, well, America is using ISIS against
Iran and Iran against ISIS. So this is just all a game for
America. We should stay away from it. We should stand by people
who are truly in line with our values. That is all I can say,
sir.
Mr. DeSantis. You guys want to chime in? What do you advise
us to do?
Mr. Sazegara. I have submitted a proposal, the appendix to
my testimony. I kindly ask you to read that. And in that
proposal I have suggested to have a standing subcommittee for
human rights in Iran to watch very carefully the human rights
and show that the Congress of the United States is concerned
about the human rights in Iran.
And put pressure on the sources of money of the
institutions and the persons who abuse human rights in Iran,
who violate human rights in Iran. The first person is the
leader and then Revolutionary Guard and several other
institutions. Forty percent of Iran's economy is controlled by
these organizations.
So Ayatollah Khamenei, the leader, insists that human
rights should be off the table of any negotiation. I think
Congress can put on the table, if not in this negotiation, the
nuclear negotiation, in other commissions and say that okay,
these sanctions will not be removed or new sanctions will be
regulated in Congress to keep the hands of the suppression
groups and forces in Iran off the people in Iran. So I think
that this is the real force that they understand and will send
a good signal to the people of Iran that the United States is
concerned about their rights and their freedoms.
Mr. DeSantis. Mr. Vance, you want to weigh in?
Mr. Vance. We don't actually have any specific
recommendations, so certainly we have been grateful for the
resolutions that have usually been passed in each Congress that
highlight the situation with respect to human rights and
especially the Baha'is in Iran, but we don't have any
recommendations on U.S. policy.
Mr. DeSantis. Great. Well, I appreciate the witnesses.
Really a lot of good information and a lot of good insights. So
I thank you for coming.
Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much, Mr. DeSantis, for your
deep interest in this important issue. Very good questions and
excellent answers from our panelists.
Unfortunately our subcommittee chairman, Mr. Smith, has
been unavoidably detained, so with that our joint subcommittee
hearing is now adjourned. Thank you to all.
[Whereupon, at 4:20 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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