    [House Hearing, 114 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                       THE SHAME OF IRANIAN HUMAN RIGHTS

    =======================================================================

                                 JOINT HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                     SUBCOMMITTEE ON AFRICA, GLOBAL HEALTH,
                            GLOBAL HUMAN RIGHTS, AND
                          INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS

                                    AND THE

                                SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                        THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA

                                     OF THE

                          COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                               FEBRUARY 26, 2015

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 114-16

                                   __________

            Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

    Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/
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                                     ______

                          COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                     EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman
    CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey     ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
    ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida         BRAD SHERMAN, California
    DANA ROHRABACHER, California         GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
    STEVE CHABOT, Ohio                   ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
    JOE WILSON, South Carolina           GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
    MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas             THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
    TED POE, Texas                       BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
    MATT SALMON, Arizona                 KAREN BASS, California
    DARRELL E. ISSA, California          WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
    TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania             DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
    JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina          ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
    MO BROOKS, Alabama                   AMI BERA, California
    PAUL COOK, California                ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California
    RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas            GRACE MENG, New York
    SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania            LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
    RON DeSANTIS, Florida                TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
    MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina         JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
    TED S. YOHO, Florida                 ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
    CURT CLAWSON, Florida                BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
    SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee
    REID J. RIBBLE, Wisconsin
    DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan
    LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
    TOM EMMER, Minnesota

         Amy Porter, Chief of Staff      Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director

                   Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director
        Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights, and
                          International Organizations

                   CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey, Chairman
    MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina         KAREN BASS, California
    CURT CLAWSON, Florida                DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
    SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee          AMI BERA, California
    TOM EMMER, Minnesota

                                     ------

                Subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa

                     ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida, Chairman
    STEVE CHABOT, Ohio                   THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
    JOE WILSON, South Carolina           GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
    DARRELL E. ISSA, California          BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
    RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas            DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
    RON DeSANTIS, Florida                ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
    MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina         GRACE MENG, New York
    TED S. YOHO, Florida                 LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
    CURT CLAWSON, Florida                BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
    DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan
    LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                                   WITNESSES

    Mr. Shayan Arya, Central Committee Member, Constitutionalist
      Party of Iran (Liberal Democrat)...............................     9
    Mr. Mohsen Sazegara, president, Research Institute on
      Contemporary Iran..............................................    20
    Mr. Anthony Vance, director, U.S. Baha'i Office of Public Affairs    24

              LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

    Mr. Shayan Arya: Prepared statement..............................    13
    Mr. Mohsen Sazegara: Prepared statement..........................    22
    Mr. Anthony Vance: Prepared statement............................    26

                                    APPENDIX

    Hearing notice...................................................    46
    Hearing minutes..................................................    47
    Mr. Mohsen Sazegara: Proposals...................................    48

                       THE SHAME OF IRANIAN HUMAN RIGHTS

                                  ----------

                          THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2015

                           House of Representatives,

                     Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health,

            Global Human Rights, and International Organizations and

               Subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa,

                         Committee on Foreign Affairs,

                                Washington, DC.

        The committees met, pursuant to notice, at 2 o'clock p.m.,
    in room 2172 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Christopher H.
    Smith (chairman of the Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health,
    Global Human Rights, and International Organizations)
    presiding.
        Mr. Smith. The subhearing of the joint subcommittees will
    come to order, and good afternoon to everybody.
        At a time when the administration seems keen to reach a
    nuclear accord that relies at least to some extent on trust,
    although there are some verification aspects to it, with the
    Iranian regime and perhaps even a de facto collaboration in the
    fight against ISIS, it is wise to consider and scrutinize the
    dismal human rights record of this country which we are
    currently conducting negotiations with.
        How they treat their own people is illustrative of how they
    see and will treat outsiders. This hearing provides a critical
    examination of human rights in Iran, which is important and
    necessary in its own right, and also places in context the
    administration's efforts toward a nuclear deal.
        According to the report by the U.N. Special Rapporteur on
    Human Rights in Iran, between July 2013 and June 2014, at least
    852 people were executed in Iran. Shockingly, some of those
    executed were children under the age of 18. Iranian human
    rights activists place the number of people executed by the
    regime at 1,181.
        The current Department of State human rights report states
    that Iranian human rights violations include disappearances;
    cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment; mistreatment of
    prisoners including judicially sanctioned amputation and
    flogging; rape; politically motivated violence and repression;
    harsh and life-threatening conditions in detention and prison
    facilities, with instances of death in custody; arbitrary
    arrests and lengthy pretrial detention, sometimes
    incommunicado.
        While the Iranian Constitution grants equal rights to all
    ethnic minorities and allows for minority languages to be used
    in the media and in schools, minorities do not enjoy equal
    rights and the regime consistently denies their right to use
    their language in school. In addition, a 1985 law prohibits
    non-Shi'a ethnic minorities from fully participating in civic
    life. That law and its associated provisions make full access
    of employment, education and other areas conditional on a
    devotion to the Islamic Republic and the tenets of the Shi'a
    Islam.
        The regime disproportionately targets minority groups
    including Kurds, Arabs, Azeris, and others, for arbitrary
    arrest, prolonged detention, and physical abuse. These groups
    report political and socioeconomic discrimination particularly
    in their access to economic aid, business licenses, university
    admissions, permission to publish books, and housing and land
    rights.
        Because of the severe religious freedom abuses, our
    Government has designated Iran as a Country of Particular
    Concern since 1999, each year. Frequently, the arrest and
    harassment of members of religious minorities has continued
    following a significant increase in 2012. The government
    severely restricts religious freedom, and there have been
    reports of imprisonment, harassment, intimidation, and
    discrimination based on those faith beliefs.
        There has been continued reports of government charging
    religious and ethnic minorities with ``enmity against God,''
    ``anti-Islamic propaganda,'' or vague national security crimes
    for their religious activities. Those reportedly arrested on
    religious grounds face poor prison conditions and treatment, as
    with most prisoners of conscience.
        One of the imprisoned on religious grounds is Pastor Saeed
    Abedini, a U.S. citizen and father of two--Rebekkah and Jacob--
    and a Christian imprisoned in Iran because of his, and only
    because of, his faith. Pastor Abedini was imprisoned by the
    Iranian regime nearly 1,000 days ago when members of the
    Revolutionary Guard pulled him off a bus and then placed him
    under house arrest. He later was taken away in chains to Evin
    prison, where he endured periods of solitary confinement,
    beatings, internal bleeding, death threats, and continued
    psychological torture all because he would not deny his
    Christian faith.
        What was Pastor Abedini's crime? According to the court, he
    was a threat to the security of Iran because of his leadership
    role in Christian churches between 2000 and 2005. And I would
    note parenthetically that he was allowed to go back to build an
    orphanage, got the approval and then had that all reversed and
    then he was arrested.
        President Obama promised Pastor Abedini's son Jacob that he
    would do all he can to gain his father's release by the boy's
    birthday next month. Yesterday, the Secretary of State in
    answer to a question I posed said the administration was
    working quietly to gain Pastor Abedini's release as soon as
    possible. Let us hope.
        Meanwhile, Iran is repeatedly cited for virtually
    unrelenting repression of the Baha'is community which Iran's
    Shiite Muslim clergy views as a heretical sect. Baha'is number
    about 300,000-350,000. At least 30 Baha'i remained imprisoned
    and 60 were arrested in 2012. A February 2013 U.N. report said
    that 110 Baha'is were in jail. They had said that 133 were
    expected to start serving jail time.
        Since the 1979 Islamic Revolution, the regime has executed
    more than 200 Baha'is simply because of their faith. The regime
    frequently prevents many Baha'is from leaving the country,
    harasses them, persecutes them, and generally disregards their
    property rights. I would note parenthetically that when Ronald
    Reagan was President and was the first one to raise the issue
    at the Presidential level, I was there at the White House when
    he so designated the defense of the Baha'i as a very vital,
    important interest of the United States and all concerned about
    human rights.
        Iranian courts offer no recourse to the monstrous
    violations of human rights because without an independent
    judiciary Iranians and foreigners tied to those courts are
    routinely denied fair trials sometimes resulting in executions
    without due process.
        I'd like to now yield to Mr. Deutch for any opening
    comments he may have.
        Mr. Deutch. Thank you. Thank you Chairman Smith, Chairman
    Ros-Lehtinen and Ranking Member Bass for holding today's joint
    hearing. It is very important that our two subcommittees come
    together today to shine a light on Iran's atrocious human
    rights record. And I apologize because this is an issue I care
    deeply about but I'm going to be running back and forth to
    another hearing taking place at the same time.
        While the world anxiously awaits to see what if any
    agreement will be reached on Iran's nuclear weapons program,
    this hearing serves as an important reminder that even beyond
    the dangerous and illicit program Iran's regime routinely
    violates human rights of the Iranian people. At the same time
    that the news is focused on Geneva, back in Iran the human
    rights situation is as dismal as ever.
        We are well past the Ahmadinejad period in Iran where
    inflammatory statements made criticism easy. Enough time has
    passed to see what the Rouhani administration can do.
    Unfortunately it appears that Rouhani has fallen short on many
    of his campaign promises, hamstrung perhaps by the Supreme
    Leader's ultimate and absolute control. The Iranian economy
    continues to suffer due to the intransigence of its leaders,
    and the Iranian people remain repressed and restricted by the
    ultra-conservative social policies of the Ayatollah.
        Today's hearing serves as an important reminder that even
    if we were to resolve the nuclear issue, even if hypothetically
    the P5+1 reaches an acceptable nuclear deal, Iran still remains
    a global leader in terrorism financing and human rights abuses.
    Iran would still be willing to sentence a juvenile to death for
    the crime of corruption on earth and imprison hundreds of
    political prisoners.
        This is a government that refuses for its own people some
    of the most fundamental human rights, a government that is
    willing to perpetuate misogynistic, racist, and homophobic
    policies, and one that will relentlessly defend its right to
    possess nuclear capabilities while the Supreme Leader continues
    to decry Israel's right to simply exist.
        Showing a complete disregard for the principle of the right
    to life, Iran continues to execute its citizens at alarming
    rates. Official sources put the number of executions in 2014 at
    200, but the actual number could likely be over 700. Many of
    those individuals were charged with questionable or vague
    offenses, like a woman last October that was convicted of
    killing a man that she claimed was in the act of raping her.
    With dozens and dozens of offenses that carry capital
    punishment, Iran's judiciary has shown just how easy it is for
    an individual to be put to death, with over 80 Iranians
    executed in January of this year alone.
        The government allows no room for political dissent or
    critical belief. The regime continues to censor journalists and
    political activists and to deny its citizens their freedom of
    speech and opinion. Iran's unfounded arrest and subsequent
    jailing of Washington Post journalist Jason Rezaian on trumped
    up charges is despicable and must be condemned by all
    responsible nations.
        The Internet is certainly not an open and safe space in
    Iran. Anything from a Facebook post to a viral video can land
    an individual in jail for years. And with one of the highest
    incarceration rates in the world, Iran certainly exercises
    their willingness to imprison individuals in order to keep
    absolute control over media and news content consumed by the
    people.
        Another favorite tactic of the Iranian regime is targeting
    ethnic and religious minorities. The country's largest non-
    Muslim religious minority, people of the Baha'i Faith, face
    particularly hostile treatment. This community is denied
    freedom of religion, they live under constant fear of arrest,
    attacks, and destruction of their religious sites. Over 100
    Baha'is are currently held in detention and many international
    reports have criticized Iran's failure to ensure that they
    receive a fair trial and adequate access to counsel.
        Many other groups also face bigotry and targeted
    discrimination. Christians and Sunni Muslims, Arabs, Kurds, and
    Azeris, and many more religious and ethnic minority groups are
    also frequently targeted by the regime, and many are forced to
    hide signs of their identity while in public.
        Women are still subservient to men in many aspects of daily
    life, and as we witnessed from the gruesome pictures of acid
    attacks last fall, women are still targeted for violating
    social norms as set by the state's religious interpretations.
        For the LGBT community the environment in Iran is bleak.
    LGBT individuals face discrimination from their government but
    also from their friends and families. They can't turn to the
    courts because same-sex relationships are criminalized. They
    can't report attacks to law enforcement authorities out of fear
    that they may be arrested for being LGBT.
        And there's little information or support available on the
    ground. The head of Iran's human rights council made the
    government's position clear when he said that universal human
    rights should not be extended to what he referred to as the
    homosexual lifestyle.
        Yesterday during another Foreign Affairs Committee hearing,
    I implored Secretary Kerry to continue to raise the case of Bob
    Levinson, an American citizen and my constituent, who has been
    missing in Iran since March 2007, while our negotiators sit
    across the table from the Iranians. Eight years later Bob is
    still not home. Despite indications by the Iranian Government
    of their willingness to assist in this case, we're nearing the
    eighth anniversary of his disappearance and we see no positive
    signs. We must continue to advocate for help in Bob's case and
    for the release of the other American citizens unjustly held in
    Iran, Amir Hekmati and Pastor Abedini.
        Last November we passed a resolution condemning the Iranian
    Government for these and many more human rights violations, a
    long list to be sure, but it is important that we as a body
    consistently condemn these policies and practices.
    Unfortunately the same is not the case for the rest of the
    world. The U.N. General Assembly's Third Committee also voted
    last fall in a resolution on Iran's human rights abuses. And
    while it passed with 78 votes, 69 countries abstained and 35
    countries voted against it.
        Finally, as we get closer to the deadlines for negotiations
    with Iran, I urge my colleagues in Congress and our negotiators
    in Geneva to not take our eyes off what is happening on the
    ground in Iran. With such deplorable human rights abuses
    occurring daily and millions of Iranians repressed and facing
    discrimination, we've got to keep the global spotlight on Iran
    and condemn the government's disregard for basic human rights.
    That is what today's hearing will do.
        I want to thank again the chairman. I want to thank our
    witnesses. I look forward to hearing from you today.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, Mr. Deutch.
        It is a privilege to join Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, the former
    chairman of the full committee and now chairman of the
    Subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa. This is both
    of our subcommittees' joint hearing. I yield to my good friend
    and colleague.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much, Chairman Smith, and
    thank you for holding this joint subcommittee hearing on this
    important topic. And in fact this is the third hearing that
    Chairman Smith and I have held on the issue of human rights in
    Iran, and I am appreciative of your continued dedicated
    leadership on this issue.
        I want to first start with some good news. We confirmed
    yesterday that Rozita Vaseghi was finally released last month
    after a 5-year sentence in prison in Iran. Rozita is a member
    of the persecuted Baha'i community that you have heard about
    from my colleagues. They are Iran's largest non-Muslim
    religious minority and I adopted her as a prisoner of
    conscience last year as part of the Tom Lanto Human Rights
    Commission's Defending Freedoms project.
        And while I am relieved, all of us are, that Rozita has
    been released and will be able to get the health care that she
    needs after years of brutal mistreatment and solitary
    confinement, we know that her ordeal is not over. She has not
    been given any paperwork. Authorities have not told her whether
    she really might continue to serve a second 5-year term or even
    an arbitrary 2-year term. She fears that she could be thrown
    back in prison at any time, so we continue to pray for Rozita
    and for so many others as well.
        Mr. Chairman, as you know the Iranian regime uses tactics
    like those that they used against Rozita every day to instill
    fear in the people of Iran. Iran's human rights practices are
    amongst the worst in the world. But in its desperation to
    secure a nuclear deal, the Obama administration has completely
    ignored the issue of human rights in Iran as well as many other
    concerns that we have with the Iranian regime.
        And this serves as another example of the policy of the
    White House to look the other way on human rights violations as
    part of any negotiation, and that was evident in Cuba. The
    administration is hosting regime officials tomorrow after the
    Castro state security folks have arrested over 300 civil
    society activists in the last 3 weeks. In the last 3 weeks. And
    delegations have come and gone and folks say they are all in
    favor of human rights, but apparently not while there. Among
    them was Berta Soler who testified before your subcommittee,
    Mr. Chairman, 3 weeks ago. In these secret talks with Cuba, the
    administration showed its willingness to trade away the store
    for little concessions in return.
        So the question becomes what will the administration trade
    next with the Iran nuclear deal? What will the administration
    give up in return for those American citizens who are being
    held in Tehran? The parallels between how the White House is
    negotiating in secret with Cuba and Iran at the same time--
    well, the parallels are striking.
        What the administration has never understood or really has
    chosen to ignore is that Congress passed strong sanctions laws
    not just to stop Iran's nuclear program but also its ballistic
    missile program, its weapons program, its worldwide support for
    terror, its destabilization of the region, its abysmal human
    rights record. And as the author of many pieces of Iran related
    sanctions legislation, I can tell you that from the beginning
    the administration fought Congress tooth and nail to stop any
    sanctions at all.
        And so it is of no surprise to anyone that the human rights
    issue is not even a part of the discussion when we talk about
    the nuclear deal. And now it appears increasingly likely that
    the administration will give away what little leverage we have
    and leave the ayatollahs free to continue to oppress the people
    of Iran, to continue jailing, torturing, and executing
    dissidents, prisoners of conscience, religious minorities, and
    ethnic minorities.
        It is truly shameful to hear our own State Department talk
    about the importance of global human rights, talk about it when
    it does absolutely nothing and in fact is indirectly
    legitimizing the continued repression of the people of Iran.
        The Obama administration after failing to support the
    Iranian people's right of self-determination during the 2009
    Green Movement rushed to brand Rouhani as a moderate saying
    that human rights under this Ayatollah lackey would somehow
    improve.
        But what we have seen, Mr. Chairman, is just the opposite.
    Human rights under Rouhani have actually gotten worse. There
    have been more crackdowns on free speech, more arrests, more
    jailings of journalists, more jailings of political prisoners,
    more persecution of women, the LGBT community, religious
    minorities, ethnic minorities, more executions.
        According to the latest report of Human Rights Watch, the
    real number of executions in Iran last year is thought to be
    over 600 including eight who were under the age of 18. We still
    cannot confirm the execution last week of Saman Naseem, a 22-
    year-old ethnic Kurd who was 17 when he was arrested. Bloggers
    and social media users have also suffered under Rouhani with
    security forces cracking down sharply on any dissent,
    especially those considered to be leading members of the
    opposition.
        Members of the Baha'i community like Rozita are especially
    targeted with 100 Baha'is currently in prison. Baha'i
    cemeteries are systematically destroyed, including last year's
    bulldozing of over 1,000 graves in one city in order to build a
    cultural and sports complex. And May 14th is the 7-year
    anniversary of the imprisonment of the Baha'i Seven, the former
    leadership group who have been serving 20-year sentences for
    advocating on behalf of their religious beliefs.
        The regime hopes that we will move on, we will forget the
    people of Iran as the administration in the U.S. continues to
    negotiate solely on the nuclear program and there are at least
    four unjustly jailed Americans in Iranian prisons. And we've
    mentioned them here.
        Saeed Abedini, a Christian pastor who has been in jail
    since 2012 has been tortured and beaten by prison guards and
    inmates. Marine veteran Amir Hakmati who has been held since
    2011. His health is rapidly deteriorating. He is also beaten
    and tortured. Jason Rezaian, the Washington Post bureau chief
    arrested last year, still has not been charged but he is in
    solitary confinement and his health is declining. And of course
    the constituent of my good friend Ted Deutch, Bob Levinson, a
    south Florida resident who has been held captive by the Iranian
    regime since March 9, 2007, making him the longest held hostage
    in U.S. history. These four U.S. citizens are just a few of the
    millions who continue to suffer under the Iranian regime, and
    tragically that suffering is not part of the administration's
    calculus.
        Human rights are an essential factor in long term
    stability, should be a key objective in our foreign policy
    strategy, not a simple resolution to pass but something to live
    up to every day both for those suffering under tyranny and for
    our own national security.
        Mr. Chairman, we must not allow the human rights conditions
    in Iran to be ignored continually by this administration. Thank
    you, sir.
        Mr. Smith. Madam Chair, thank you very much for your very
    eloquent statement and for your passion.
        Now we will yield to Mr. Cicilline.
        Mr. Cicilline. Thank you Mr. Chairman, and thank you to you
    and to Ranking Member Deutch, and thank you to Chairman Ros-
    Lehtinen for convening this hearing and for calling attention
    to this very important issue.
        While the nuclear negotiations with Iran have dominated
    discussions in this country of late, the fact remains that Iran
    remains one of the world's worst perpetrators of human rights
    abuses and it is critical that we continue to bring attention
    to this issue. For those who dare to criticize the regime of
    Supreme Leader Khamenei or attempt to challenge the government
    and propose conformity, they face harsh consequences sometimes
    even including death.
        I am particularly concerned about the horrific disregard
    for basic political expression, which according to the current
    State Department human rights report, they characterize it as
    the most egregious human rights problems were the government's
    manipulation of the electoral process, which severely limited
    citizens' right to change their government peacefully through
    free and fair elections; restrictions on civil liberties
    including the freedoms of assembly, speech, and press; and
    disregard for the physical integrity of persons whom it
    arbitrarily and unlawfully detained, tortured, and killed. And
    as was explained, including four American citizens currently
    being held.
        In addition, I am particularly concerned about the rights
    of LGBT persons and other vulnerable minority groups in the
    country, in a country that imposes strict, so-called morality
    codes, does not respect basic freedom of expression or religion
    and limits access to the outside world.
        I thank the witnesses for being here today and look very
    much forward to your testimony, and again thank the chairman
    and ranking member for calling this hearing. And with that I
    yield back.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you.
        I would like to yield to Chairman Chabot.
        Mr. Chabot. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to commend you
    and Chairman Ros-Lehtinen for continuing this series of
    hearings on Iran, perhaps the most dangerous regime in the
    world today.
        Iran continues to be one of the world's leading abusers of
    fundamental human rights. The example of the Baha'is which both
    you and Chairman Ros-Lehtinen talked about already, it has
    already been referred to, but unfortunately it is only one of
    many of these abuses which are taking place today.
        The regime persecutes anybody who dares to speak publicly
    or not so publicly against the regime and often issues death
    sentences to Iranians who are charged with insulting the Islam.
    It has become pretty clear that the so-called moderate Rouhani
    is just another in a long list of Iranian dictators whose
    contempt for his own people's fundamental human rights and
    religious freedom is readily apparent.
        When I chaired the Middle East Subcommittee in not the
    past, but the one before that Congress, as I had the
    opportunity to spend about an hour with Prime Minister
    Netanyahu in his office, and some of the things he told me were
    shocking and I hadn't heard a lot of them in the news. And one
    in particular that stands with me to this day was the fact that
    during the Green Movement they had videos, the government did,
    and so when they were over we might have thought it was over.
    And what they were doing is systematically identifying those
    people that were in the crowds and that were supporters of the
    Green Movement and they were disappearing and in many instances
    along with their families, and this was something that got very
    little attention.
        And my colleague, Ms. Ros-Lehtinen, mentioned this
    administration's, for lack of a better term, dropping the ball,
    in many instances when it comes to Iran. That was one in
    particular. I think we had an opportunity to actually speak out
    and do something on behalf of that movement. That was an
    opportunity that was missed and a lot of people unfortunately
    have paid a very high price as a result of that inaction.
        And so I want to thank you for holding this hearing and I
    yield back.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you, Chairman Chabot.
        The chair recognizes the gentleman from Michigan, Mr.
    Trott.
        Mr. Trott. I want to thank Chairman Smith and Chairman Ros-
    Lehtinen for holding this hearing. And there's no question that
    Iran is guilty of egregious human rights violations. They
    continue to manipulate the election process to prevent peaceful
    and fair elections. They severely restrict civil liberties,
    commit repeated religious freedom abuses, show disrespect for
    the physical integrity of its people through arbitrary
    detentions and torture and killing.
        Other problems include sanctioned amputations and rape and
    flogging and punishment for politically motivated violence. It
    is not surprising that the World Press Freedom Index ranked
    Iran 173rd out of 180 countries with respect to human rights
    violations.
        This hearing is timely for two reasons. First, we have to
    continue to shine a light and show the terrible abuses that are
    happening with respect to human rights in Iran, and secondly,
    Secretary Kerry continues to tell us that we can trust and rely
    on our negotiations with them and that they need more time. And
    for me, I submit that a country that is guilty of such
    egregious abuse cannot be trusted, should not be trusted, and
    is not worthy of the respect of the world community. Thank you
    for being here today.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you very much, Mr. Trott.
        I would like to now introduce our very distinguished panel
    beginning first with Shayan Arya who is an expert in Iran, who
    is also a human rights and political activist. He was elected
    to the Central Committee of the Constitutionalist Party of Iran
    in which he served multiple terms. He has co-authored numerous
    articles focusing on the Iranian regime's human rights
    violations, internal politics, and terrorist activities. The
    articles have been published around the world in publications
    such as the Wall Street Journal, The Australian, the Washington
    Times, Jerusalem Post, and Strategic Outlook.
        We will then hear from Mr. Mohsen Sazegara who was part of
    the 1979 Islamic Revolution and one of the founders of the
    Islamic Revolutionary Guards. He held several positions within
    the regime in the first decade after the revolution, but
    declined to accept any positions in it after 1988. He has
    published three newspapers and two monthly magazines which were
    all shut down by the regime, and has been arrested and
    imprisoned four times in Iran. While out of the country for
    medical treatments in 2004, he was sentenced to 6 years of
    jail. He has continued his political opposition and is
    currently the president of the Research Institute on
    Contemporary Iran.
        Then we will hear from Mr. Anthony Vance, who oversees the
    development of the U.S. Baha'i Office of Public Affairs'
    programs and strategic direction. He joined the office in 2010
    after spending 4 years at the Baha'i World Center in Haifa,
    Israel, representing it to the diplomatic community, civil
    society, and to the host government. A lawyer by training, he
    spent 21 years in the U.S. Agency for International Development
    in legal and managerial positions in Washington, Cote d'Ivoire,
    Kenya, Botswana, and Egypt.
        Mr. Arya, if you could begin.

        STATEMENT OF MR. SHAYAN ARYA, CENTRAL COMMITTEE MEMBER,
           CONSTITUTIONALIST PARTY OF IRAN (LIBERAL DEMOCRAT)

        Mr. Arya. Chairman Smith, Chairman Ros-Lehtinen, and
    honorable members of the subcommittees, it is really an honor
    to appear before you today to discuss the human rights
    situation in Iran under the Islamic regime. It is an important
    issue that has unfortunately been overlooked by the
    international community in light of the current negotiations
    between Iran and P5+1 since the election of Hassan Rouhani as
    President of Iran in 2013.
        Since that time, the Iranian regime, its supporters and
    lobbyists have tried vigorously to convince the international
    community in general and the U.S. administration in particular
    that something has fundamentally changed for the better in
    Iran, that the Iran Islamic Republic can be trusted to act
    according to Iran's national interests and not its ideological
    ones. Unfortunately however the regime's actions speak louder
    than its words.
        Iran, after China, currently has the highest number of
    executions in the world, and since Rouhani's election there has
    not been a reduction in that statistic. To the contrary, there
    has been a significant increase. In 2014 alone, eight
    individuals believed to be under 18 years of age at the time of
    their alleged crimes were reportedly executed. Human rights
    activists in Iran put the total number of executions for 2013
    and 2014 at 1,181 people.
        The execution of juveniles is not the only crime committed
    by the Islamic Republic. The Islamic regime systematically
    tries to brainwash children. On this important issue I would
    like to draw your attention to the research done by the
    Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School
    Education, IMPACT-se. The Islamic Republic systematically
    indoctrinates children and prepares them for war and encourage
    the hostile attitude toward non-Muslims with children
    instructed not to take unbelievers, Jews and Christians as
    friends.
        Again, against this background is it any surprise that
    almost all religious minorities in Iran suffer officially
    sanctioned discriminations? Baha'is are banned from all
    government positions, are not allowed to have places of
    worship, and are banned from teaching the faith and even attend
    universities. In some cases they have even been denied burial
    sites and their cemeteries are systematically destroyed.
        Evangelical Christians are suffering as well. Even Muslims
    who do not conform to the official interpretation of Islam face
    heresy charges. Last September, Mohsen Amir-Aslani was executed
    for insulting the prophet Jonah by declaring that his story in
    Koran was symbolic rather than factual.
        Even traditional Shiite clerics who reject official
    interpretation of Islam are persecuted. Ayatollah Hossein
    Kazemeyni Boroujerdi is a traditional Shiite cleric who openly
    questions the legitimacy of the Islamic Republic and advocates
    a secular regime and has been imprisoned since 2007. Followers
    of Ahl-e Haqq religion are also under enormous pressure.
    Several members of the Ahl-e Haqq community have self-immolated
    in recent years to protest against religious persecution in
    Iran.
        The Nematollahi-Gonabadi Sufi order is another example.
    Many members of this Sufi order are presently imprisoned and
    several places of their worship in Isfahan and other cities
    have been demolished. Mohammad Ali Taheri, founder of a
    spiritual group, was also arrested in 2011. In fact yesterday
    some of his supporters came out in support of him and many of
    them were arrested, just yesterday.
        Iran is one of the few countries in the world that
    prosecutes lawyers for representing their clients. Ms. Nasrin
    Sotudeh and Abdolfattah Soltani are good examples. Mr. Soltani,
    a leading human rights lawyer has even been denied medical
    attention despite the fact that even prison doctors have
    written a letter recommending that he be treated outside the
    prison.
        Last March, Maryam Shafipour, 29 years old, was sentenced
    to 7 years in prison for peaceful protests. Many student
    activists such as Majid Tavakkoli, Bhareh Hedayat, Sayed Zia
    Nabavi, Majid Dori, and Navid Khanjani have spent years, years
    in prisons for no crimes other than exercising their rights to
    peaceful protest.
        A young brilliant scientist, Mr. Omid Kokabee, has been
    incarcerated in Evin prison since 2011. He was charged with
    espionage and for refusing not to work on military research
    projects with the government. That was his only crime.
        Atena Farghadani, a children's rights advocate currently is
    in prison and she is on hunger strike. And what she's asking,
    not be released but to be moved from Gharchak prison which is a
    notoriously substandard women prison, to be moved back to Evin
    prison. And she's in a very dire situation right now from what
    I heard yesterday.
        Political activists such as Heshmatollah Tabarzadi have
    spent years in prison for their peaceful activities. Just a few
    days ago, Masood Arab Choobdar, Saeed Shirzad, Hamid Babaei who
    were exiled from Tehran to Rajaei Shahr prison, which is
    another notoriously dangerous prison in Iran, they were beaten
    and severely abused. Another Baha'i prisoner, Shahram Chinian
    was also beaten, so severely that his face was unrecognizable
    by his friends.
        Last July, Iranian writer Arzhang Davoodi was sentenced to
    death after spending nearly 11 years in prison on new charges
    of enmity against God in relation to his political activism and
    writings in support of a secular system. Journalists are
    another group that suffer under the Islamic Republic. According
    to Committee to Protect Journalists currently there are 30
    journalists in Iran in prison.
        These cases are simply a reflection of the Iranian regime's
    repressive domestic practices. The main question then is
    whether these practices are changing and whether Iran's new
    President Hassan Rouhani is really a reformer. To understand
    Mr. Rouhani's relationship to the state it is necessary to
    review his background. He has been a member of Islamic regime's
    leadership for the past 36 years and therefore has been an
    integral part of every aggressive move that the Islamic
    Republic has made since 1982. From creation and training of
    Hezbollah to the 1983 attack on U.S. and French military forces
    in Lebanon, the assassination of nearly 200 Iranian dissidents
    in Europe throughout the 1980s and 1990s, the 1994 bombing in
    Buenos Aires, and more recently to the Iranian's asymmetric
    campaign targeting U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq.
        It is impossible to believe that Mr. Rouhani had no
    knowledge of these actions. Rouhani's cabinet choice for the
    post of Justice Minister, Mostafa Pourmohammadi, speaks volumes
    to his commitment to the issue of human rights. Pourmohammadi
    had direct role in the extrajudicial executions of thousands of
    political prisoners in the 1980s.
        As we all know, Iran is the only country in the Middle East
    where people are by and large are friendly to America,
    therefore it is crucial that America stands up to the Islamic
    Republic on this important issue. I would like to encourage the
    honorable members of the subcommittees on behalf of all those
    who are suffering in the hands of the Islamic regime to link
    any easing or lifting of sanctions not just to the outcome of
    the nuclear negotiations but also to the improvement in the
    human rights situation in Iran.
        With that I would like to thank you again for this
    opportunity and would be more than happy to answer any
    questions.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Arya follows:]

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                        ----------

        Mr. Smith. Thank you very much for your testimony, and
    without objection your full statement will be made a part of
    the record as well as our other distinguished witnesses.
        Mr. Sazegara, please proceed.

    STATEMENT OF MR. MOHSEN SAZEGARA, PRESIDENT, RESEARCH INSTITUTE
                          ON CONTEMPORARY IRAN

        Mr. Sazegara. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you,
    subcommittee members.
        During the last three and a half decades, the Iranian
    people have bitterly experienced suppression of their
    fundamental freedoms and rights and witnessed brutal crackdowns
    of pro-freedom movements in Iran. I deeply regret to say that
    extensive and systematic violations of human rights,
    persecutions, unfair trials, unfounded imprisonments, tortures,
    rapes, and extrajudicial executions still continue despite the
    pledges Mr. Rouhani had made to change this trend during his
    election campaign in 2013.
        Regardless of some rare cosmetic and non-systemic release
    of a dozen of well-known prisoners in 2013 and 2014, the human
    rights abuses have not only continued but also increased in
    many respects, including but not limited to imprisonment of
    human rights activists, journalists, bloggers, university
    students and teachers, workers, ethnic and religious
    minorities, and political opposition.
        In 2014, the cases of arrest, detention, and imprisonment
    of activists illustrate a 74-percent increase as compared to
    2013. This average increase comprises 53 percent increase in
    ethnic minorities cases, 10 percent in religious, 93 percent
    students, 410 percent freedom of expression and conscience, and
    354 percent in labor activists cases.
        Another human rights violation in Iran includes persistent
    and pervasive assault on women on a continued basis under the
    pretext of disrespecting hijab, education and employment
    segregation, and being banned from appearing on stage for
    musical performances.
        Torture of political prisoners continues to coerce
    fabricated confessions that are then used to justify brutal
    crackdowns. According to first hand reports received from
    former political prisoners, the main methods of torture include
    whipping and assault, sexual torture including rape, and
    psychological torture such as prolonged solitary confinement.
    These reports are also in conformity with the reports by Dr.
    Shaheed, the U.N. Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human
    Rights in Iran.
        Execution in Iran has increased from 544 known cases in
    2012 to more than 800 known cases in 2014, it being the highest
    per capita rate in the world. The numbers are however suspected
    to be higher since many of these executions are carried out in
    secret and the regime has consistently refrained from releasing
    numbers and denied the U.N. Special Rapporteur's access to the
    country.
        These are only examples of a range of human rights
    violation categories. Such extensive and systematic violations
    of human rights should not come as a surprise. Despite talk of
    moderation, Rouhani has indulged impunity and rewarded the
    perpetrators of such grave abuses. His present Justice Minister
    Mr. Pourmohammadi who played, as a member of the notorious
    ``death committee,'' a key role in the 1988 prison massacre,
    has been appointed by this very ``moderate'' government.
        In the end, I cordially submit that a standing subcommittee
    be formed under the Subcommittee on the Middle East and North
    Africa in order to monitor and take all the necessary measures
    to draw the world's attention to the grave human rights abuses
    in Iran. Enclosed I have submitted the first two proposals to
    be put on the docket of this subcommittee. Thank you very much.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Sazegara follows:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                             ----------

        Mr. Smith. Thank you very much.
        Yes, thank you so much for that testimony. Both of you
    brought up the fact that the Justice Minister is in this
    ``moderate'' government serving in a high position despite his
    horrific past.
        I would like to now ask Mr. Vance if you would proceed.

    STATEMENT OF MR. ANTHONY VANCE, DIRECTOR, U.S. BAHA'I OFFICE OF
                             PUBLIC AFFAIRS

        Mr. Vance. Chairman Smith, Chairman Ros-Lehtinen and also
    Chairman Chabot, I would like to thank you for giving me the
    opportunity to testify on the situation of the Baha'is of Iran.
        A little background, I think, is appropriate. The Baha'i
    Faith is an independent world religion with over 5 million
    followers in over 200 countries and territories representing
    virtually every racial, ethnic, and national group on the
    planet.
        The faith originated in Iran. It spread rapidly in the mid-
    1840s immediately after its inception and included several
    notable clerics among its initial adherents. This triggered a
    violent reaction instigated or supported by a majority of the
    clergy, during which some 20,000 Baha'is were killed over
    little more than a decade.
        The primary reason that Baha'is are persecuted is
    theological. Most of the Islamic clergy in Iran believes that
    Islam is the final religion of God. The Baha'i Faith, a
    religion that arose after Islam, is therefore viewed by most of
    Iran's clergy as heresy and blasphemy, and Baha'is are viewed
    as apostates.
        In addition, Iran's clerics view certain teachings of the
    Baha'i Faith as threatening. For instance, the Baha'i Faith
    does not have a clergy and holds that each individual has the
    duty to investigate spiritual truth and arrive at his or her
    own beliefs. In addition, Baha'is believe strongly in the
    equality of women and men.
        Now while the intense brutality against Baha'is began to
    subside toward the end of the nineteenth century, unequal
    treatment, social hostilities and sporadic surges in violence
    continued during much of the twentieth century. After the
    Islamic Revolution of 1979, Baha'is became the target of severe
    and systematic state-sponsored persecution and it became
    official government policy to oppress Baha'is.
        In the years following the revolution, over 200 Baha'is
    were killed, the majority by execution. Thousands of Baha'is
    were imprisoned, many of them tortured. Baha'i holy places were
    destroyed and Baha'i cemeteries have repeatedly been attacked
    and desecrated, including the current ongoing excavation of the
    large Baha'i cemetery in Shiraz.
        The government also made and continues to make concerted
    efforts to impoverish the Baha'i community. After the
    revolution, Baha'is were dismissed from government jobs and
    denied pensions and private employers have been pressured not
    to hire Baha'is. Baha'is still suffer frequent raids on their
    homes and businesses, including a recent spate of shop
    closures, and their property is routinely seized without
    compensation.
        Baha'is were also dismissed from university positions after
    the revolution, and Baha'i students have been excluded from the
    nation's universities and continue to be so. The seven members
    of the former ad hoc leadership group of the Baha'i community
    are among the 100 Baha'is currently imprisoned in Iran, nearly
    twice the number that were imprisoned at the end of 2010.
        In the last several months there has also been a disturbing
    surge in anti-Baha'i hate propaganda in state-sponsored media
    outlets. In 2010 and 2011, approximately 22 anti-Baha'i pieces
    were appearing every month. In 2014, the number of anti-Baha'i
    pieces rose to approximately 401 per month, 18 times the
    previous level.
        In July 2013, the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei reissued a
    religious decree prohibiting Iranian Muslims from associating
    with members of the ``deviant sect,'' a well-known reference to
    Baha'is. The clerical establishment has long promoted the view
    that Baha'is are ritually unclean and that the blood of Baha'is
    is mobah, meaning that it can be spilled with impunity.
        Last October, the review of Iran's human rights record
    before the U.N. Human Rights Council revealed that Iran had
    failed to live up to dozens of promises made during its last
    Universal Periodic Review in 2010, including several related to
    the Baha'is. Yet in an astonishingly blatant falsehood, Iran's
    written response to the council declared ``minorities,
    including Baha'is, enjoyed a full range of opportunities and
    privileges.''
        It is our hope that at the follow-up session on Iran that
    will be held next month, responsible nations will emphasize the
    persecution of the Baha'is and countless other individuals and
    will hold the Iranian Government to account for its gross
    violations of human rights. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Vance follows:]

        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                  ----------

        Mr. Smith. Mr. Vance, thank you so very much for your
    testimony, and to all of you. We will stand in a brief recess.
    We have three votes on the floor of the House right now, and
    then we will resume our sitting of the two subcommittees. But
    thank you so very much, and I apologize for the inconvenience.
        [Recess.]
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen [presiding]. The subcommittee will come to
    order. We had a round of votes and Chairman Smith was called
    for an important meeting, but as soon as he gets done with that
    he will be back. But thank you for your excellent testimony,
    and I will begin the question and answer part. Thank you so
    much.
        As I had said in my opening statement, despite the
    administration's lip service to the issue of human rights, they
    have been effectively ignoring human rights in our foreign
    policy discussion and implementation to the detriment of
    millions who are suffering under tyranny. As we know, actions
    speak louder than words and this administration has thrown
    human rights to the back burner, especially in places like my
    native homeland of Cuba and in Iran where the administration
    has been desperate to secure deals with these tyrannical
    regimes.
        So I am sorry if I am not going to pronounce your names
    correctly, but I have a very difficult name as well and I don't
    get upset when people don't know how to say it.
        Mr. Arya?
        Mr. Arya. Arya.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Arya. You testified that human rights
    have ``been overlooked by the international community in light
    of current negotiations between Iran and the P5+1.'' How has
    the human rights situation in Iran changed in these
    negotiations under Rouhani?
        Mr. Arya. Well, Madam Chairman, as I said it is getting
    worse. I mean if you look at the Islamic regime, it is in their
    nature when they feel secure they just become aggressive. When
    they see that there is no attention being paid to the issue of
    human rights, for example, they just do whatever they want and
    they see no reason why they should stop. They get rid of their
    opponents, they do all kinds of things that is just true to
    their nature.
        But everything has gotten worse and all the statistics show
    that everything has gotten worse, from the number of
    executions, from the number of juveniles being executed, from
    religious minorities, everything has been worse under Rouhani.
    And my take, I think, is that international community hasn't
    paid enough attention to this issue, and they haven't been
    forcing Rouhani to stand up to his campaign promises and things
    of that nature. They just focus on the nuclear issue and then
    push everything aside. So that is unfortunate, I believe, that
    everything has gotten worse, and it is time for international
    community and U.S. administration especially to pay attention
    to that issue as well.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Well, I agree. And I see such
    similarities in my native homeland of Cuba when on December
    17th the President announced we will have diplomatic relations
    with the Castro regime. And tomorrow another round of
    negotiations will take place in the State Department and the
    lead negotiator for that agreement is Josefina Vidal who was a
    spy for Cuba and was actually expelled by the United States
    because of her espionage activities, now she is in charge of
    the negotiations.
        What signal does that tell the Castro regime? We can do
    whatever we want and everything is forgiven, and it sends a
    terrible signal to the human rights activists. That is why it
    comes as no surprise that since the President's announcement on
    December 17th, there has been a record number of arrests in
    Cuba. You would think that at the very least Raul Castro would
    tone this down while people are paying attention, but the sad
    fact is, as you pointed out, people are not paying attention.
        And so if the United States does not lead the way, the
    international community will be silent. They will be silent in
    Cuba. They were silent in Venezuela. And they are silent in
    Iran. That is why the United States has such a pivotal role to
    play when it comes to talking about human rights and doing
    something about human rights. Because if not, it sends a
    message to Rouhani that he can do whatever he wants, keep
    executing people, keep jailing people for their religious
    beliefs, we will look the other way.
        And that sends a chilling message to so many people living
    under this yoke of tyranny in Iran who want to be free, who
    want a different kind of government, but they think, well,
    obviously no one is paying attention, and the international
    community, they are so eager to have this nuclear deal that
    they are willing to look the other way as well.
        What kind of support do you see for the issue of Iranian
    human rights internationally in human rights organizations, et
    cetera?
        Mr. Arya. Well, I believe that on every arena from the
    administration to the Congress, this issue should be brought up
    continuously. In the United Nations, everywhere. Because
    without that the Islamic regime won't do anything then. I mean
    they will continue to abuse the Iranian people's rights.
        A very good example, if I may, the way President Reagan
    dealt with Gorbachev, they wanted to make a deal with
    Gorbachev, they had good relationship with Gorbachev. They
    negotiated with him. They did all of that. But at the same
    time, when President Reagan went to Moscow he made a point to
    meet with the dissidents. And that sent a very good message,
    encouraging message, to all the anti-Soviet dissidents all over
    the former Soviet Union.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. That they were not forgotten.
        Mr. Arya. Exactly.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. People cared about them.
        Mr. Arya. Exactly. The attitude of U.S. and European
    countries and all the other countries should be the same way.
    That whatever negotiations that goes between, I mean we
    understand. I am a member of opposition. I advocate regime
    change in Iran. But at the same time I understand that
    international relations and security concerns dictates that
    sometimes they have to negotiate with the Islamic regime. That
    is fine. But at the same time that negotiation, that
    improvement in relationship should not come at the expense of
    Iranian people's rights to freedom. That is the most
    important----
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. It is not an either/or.
        Mr. Arya. Exactly.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. And yet we give that message to the
    people with whom we are dealing whether it is Rouhani, whether
    it is Castro. They will say, well, we are just going to talk
    about diplomatic relations with Cuba, we will ignore human
    rights. We are just going to talk about a nuclear deal with
    Rouhani, we will ignore human rights. And that is a great boost
    to these regimes to keep harassing, intimidating and jailing
    opposition leaders because they have actually been given a
    green light to do so by our very own Government.
        Mr. Arya. I agree.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Mr. Sazegara?
        Mr. Sazegara. Yes.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you. You were one of the founding
    members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps before being
    imprisoned for your opposition to the regime. What can you tell
    us about the inner workings of the IRGC and the Iranian regime,
    its financing capabilities and the risk that the IRGC poses to
    U.S. interests and to our regional security interest?
        Mr. Sazegara. I was one of the founders of the
    Revolutionary Guard and one of the writers of the Charter of
    Revolutionary Guard in the first 3 months of victory of
    revolution, and then I left the guard and went to the National
    Radio and Television of Iran. But I followed the changes in the
    Revolutionary Guard during the last 36 years.
        Right now the Revolutionary Guard is, I believe, a kind of
    unique organization and maybe all around the world, because at
    the same time Revolutionary Guard is like a political party, a
    terrorist organization, a mafia group involved in the smuggling
    of drugs, alcoholic beverages, sex traffic in Iran, and a
    complex holding company. It owns several companies, huge
    manufacturing and trading companies of Iran. And its
    intelligence organization which directly works under command of
    son of the Ayatollah, the leader of Iran, is more brutal than
    Ministry of Intelligence and more powerful.
        So a part of at least the most important part of the
    nuclear project of Iran is controlled by the Revolutionary
    Guard as well. Besides that I think that especially these
    coming years, I mean 2015 and 2016, because of illness of the
    leader, the political competition in Iran amongst several
    factions especially inside the Revolutionary Guard will be
    increased. And for this simple reason, as a political activist
    I am really, really afraid of more brutality, more separation
    of the people during this year and the year after.
        And the economic crisis which has been created not only
    because of the sanctions, more than the sanctions are
    mismanagement and oil price, which has been decreased about 60
    percent, and several other factors will affect several aspects
    of Iranian people on this year.
        And again, riots, strikes, protests of workers, of
    teachers, I believe that we will suffer brutality by
    Revolutionary Guard this year and the year after. I want to
    add----
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. In Iran itself.
        Mr. Sazegara. Yes.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. And what about the risks that they pose
    for our interests and regional concerns?
        Mr. Sazegara. As you know, the Quds Force of Revolutionary
    Guard, which has about 14,000 members, is the special division
    of Revolutionary Guard which is in charge of out-of-Iran
    operations. I think that because of the internal affairs of
    Iran, the Quds Force of Revolutionary Guard will increase the
    out-of-Iran operations and adventurism in the region.
        And I say adventurism because they know from the period of
    war between Iran and Iraq that in crisis and military situation
    and in out-of-Iran crisis they can have the upper hand in
    internal politics. For instance, recently the missile platforms
    in Golan Heights, which were attacked by Israelis and
    destroyed, as far as I know there are several projects like
    that in the whole region, or assassination of some prominent
    opposition figures outside Iran by new methods that they hire
    some thugs to attack them just by knives or daggers or
    something like that, the example that happened in Jerusalem 2
    or 3 months ago, or other crises.
        I mean I expect for the year coming acceleration of out-of-
    Iran operations, terrorist operations, and creating some
    conflicts too because of, especially because of the internal
    competitions in Iran.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. To take away attention from their inner
    problems, have they focused on that?
        Mr. Sazegara. And they know that in such situations they
    become more powerful in internal politics if they say that yes
    we are involved in Iraq. This is the war over there in Yemen,
    with Israel, especially with Israel, in the border of Israel,
    or Hezbollah Lebanon involvement in some battles against Israel
    or several others that, other operations that they have done so
    far. They can have the upper hand in internal politics as well.
        I want to add to Mr. Arya's that as far as I know, Mr.
    Kerry has agreed with Mr. Zarif to put any human rights issue
    off the table. That is what, at the first terms of the rounds
    of negotiations Zarif has said that if you bring any human
    rights issue on the table, then Ayatollah Khamenei will order
    us to leave the table. So they have confidence that there will
    be no pressure----
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. They don't have to worry about it.
        Mr. Sazegara. Yes.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. It will be off the table.
        Mr. Sazegara. Iranians watch the U.S. policies through some
    windows like Voice of America, and unfortunately on these days
    they don't hear anything even from Voice of America. And the
    regime sells the idea to the people that see, we have behind a
    curtain----
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. We are fine.
        Mr. Sazegara. We have the agreement and nobody can help
    you. You look at that. There is nothing to say about that.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. And the opposition feels dispirited.
    Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
        Mr. Vance, the regime's treatment of Baha'is is getting
    worse under Rouhani, not better. Can you describe the treatment
    and the abuse of Baha'is under Rouhani and what does the
    persecution of the Baha'is in Iran mean for human rights in
    general? And what more can you tell me about the prisoner of
    conscience that I had adopted, Rozita Vaseghi, her health, her
    current situation, including the likelihood that Iranian
    authorities will try to imprison her again? Thank you, sir.
        Mr. Vance. Sure. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
        Well, we had been, first, we were guardedly optimistic when
    President Rouhani was elected that he would actually improve
    the situation, especially since he had promised, one of his
    election promises was to put together a draft charter of
    citizens' rights and have it circulated and finalized. He did
    actually issue a draft in November 2013.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Oh, you should read the Cuban
    Constitution. It is a beauty. They don't follow one word of it,
    but it is beautiful.
        Mr. Vance. We were very disappointed with the draft because
    it made all of the rights under it contingent on the Iranian
    Constitution and on Iranian law. So it didn't actually hold out
    any promise for any future improvements. And I think the draft
    got a great deal of pushback and criticism from a number of
    circles, so it has never been actually circulated again, to the
    best of our knowledge. And that, I think, signaled what we were
    beginning to see, and that is that one of the trends--we have
    always had Baha'is who have been harassed, raids on homes,
    raids on businesses. The amount of physical abuse in those
    raids has actually increased over the last couple of years and
    certainly has not decreased under President Rouhani. Baha'is
    have, because they are excluded from so many professions in
    Iran, they have become largely small business people running
    their own small businesses. And there is a very large amount of
    economic harassment refusing either to provide or renew
    business licenses, closing shops arbitrarily.
        In October, for example, on October 25th, in Kerman and a
    couple of other cities nearby, there were 79 shops that were
    closed simply because the shopkeepers had observed a Baha'i
    holy day. And so the shops were actually sealed. But perhaps
    the most disturbing thing that has occurred, at least in my
    opinion, is the increase in hate propaganda. Because it has
    been shown in many societies that it is a prerequisite, or at
    least it presages in many societies a much more serious
    crackdown on the population that is being targeted.
        I had mentioned that, in 2014, there were 18 times the
    number of anti-Baha'i articles, not just criticizing Baha'is
    but portraying them as being agents of the United States,
    agents of Russia, agents of Israel, accusing them of all sorts
    of immorality. It is all designed to create a sense in people's
    minds that persecution of Baha'is is justified.
        So based on the very unfortunate history of good portions
    of the twentieth century, I am much more concerned about that
    than any other single factor. And certainly that would be in
    the control of, all of this is state-sponsored media and that
    is certainly within the control or should be in the control of
    President Rouhani.
        So we are concerned about that. We are concerned that for
    human rights in general in Iran, because the Baha'is are the
    largest non-Muslim religious minority in the country and
    because they have been traditionally despised to a greater
    degree than any other group by the Muslim clergy, we know that
    if things were to improve for the Baha'is, they would improve
    for everybody because it is inconceivable that things could get
    better for the Baha'is in Iran without them also getting better
    for other groups. So in a sense we are that barometer, let us
    say, of what, how we are being treated is a barometer for the
    rest of the civil society.
        And as to Rozita Vaseghi, we are delighted that she was
    released from prison in Mashhad on January 21st. You had noted
    earlier that she is uncertain as to what her future is because
    she had two 5-year sentences and it was unclear whether they
    were going to be successive or concurrent. The way things stand
    at the moment they were concurrent. They released her.
        But she was also told that she might have another 2-year
    sentence, and so we don't know what is going to happen with
    that. She certainly has health problems that have to be dealt
    with, and rather than get into the details of that I can simply
    say that 5 years in prison in Mashhad took a definite health
    toll on her. Thank you.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Which was one of the objectives of the
    regime. Thank you very much. Excellent, excellent answers. We
    appreciate it.
        Mr. Cicilline?
        Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Madam Chair.
        Thank you again for your very, very important testimony. I
    think it is very clear to anyone that has looked at this issue
    that the human rights abuses in Iran are horrific and are
    contrary to basic American values and universal values of human
    rights. And I think the challenge for us is to determine what
    is the most effective way for us to try to change that as
    responsible world leaders and part of the international
    community.
        And so my first question really is, is there any sense that
    President Rouhani, even if he were inclined to change his view
    on human rights, would be empowered to actually make
    substantial changes in the condition of basic human rights in
    Iran, or is the Supreme Leader responsible for this set of
    practices such that the President wouldn't actually have the
    ability or the capacity to change it? Because I think it is
    important to kind of know where our leverage points should be
    in the conversation to begin. I don't know if anyone has a
    sense of that.
        Mr. Sazegara. According to the Constitution of Islamic
    Republic, President is the head of the executive power. And
    judiciary power is controlled by the leader, the head of
    judiciary power is appointed by the leader, and all the judges
    and prosecutors are appointed by that head.
        And Rouhani just theoretically doesn't have so much power
    to change some parts of these human rights abuses in Iran, but
    at least he can do something. For instance, changing his
    Minister of Justice, a notorious killer, a notorious person to
    violate human rights and in charge of massacre, or he can put
    pressure on keeping the freedom of press in Iran, because the
    Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance is in charge of the
    press and it is controlled by Rouhani, but he doesn't do that.
    Or changing the situation, for instance, in Iranian
    universities with respect to teachers' associations, labor
    associations, but he has not done anything with respect to
    these parts.
        He can do something to help the civil society of Iran to
    confront the suppression of the rights of the people of Iran,
    but so far he has not done anything. And even he has not said
    anything about the home arrest of the leaders of Green Movement
    of Iran or the other political prisoners.
        So I believe that some parts of the violations has happened
    by the hands of the Minister of Intelligence, while the
    Minister of Intelligence is a member of the cabinet. So I think
    that yes, although he is not directly in charge of the
    judiciary power, he can do many things by the tools that he has
    in the executive power, by the people, by the civil society of
    Iran and support at least the basic freedoms of people of Iran,
    but he has not done anything.
        Mr. Arya. I would like to add I agree with Mr. Sazegara as
    well, however, I believe it is a mistake to believe, to think
    of Rouhani as someone separated from the whole totality of the
    regime. As I said, he has been part of this regime from the
    beginning and he has been serving this regime at the highest
    levels, security levels, from the beginning until now. So it is
    foolhardy to me that we think of him as an outsider who wanted
    to come and do some reforms. He may have presented himself
    during the election as such or to the international community
    that he really is trying to make things better, but things are
    not really in his hands. The judicial system is not really in
    my hands, the security system is not really in my hand, this is
    not in my hand, that is not in my hand, all I can do is this
    and that.
        But he is part of this regime. I mean he has been
    approving--I mean the Mr. Shariatmadari is the notorious editor
    of Kayhan, a very hardline, radical newspaper in Iran. He said
    it and I agree with him. He said that what is all this--and I
    am paraphrasing. He said what is all this talk about him
    wanting to release the leaders of the Green Movement, Mr.
    Mousavi, Mr. Rahnavard, and Mr. Karroubi? He said he voted for
    their imprisonment. At the National Security Council he voted
    for them to be incarcerated. What is this all talk about? I
    mean to me it is a mistake to think of him separately.
        Mr. Cicilline. And is there any evidence that you have seen
    that international pressure that may have been made on the
    human rights abuses as having any effect on the regime? Would
    you talk a little bit about it? Yes.
        Mr. Sazegara. Yes, yes, definitely.
        Mr. Cicilline. And so things like this hearing I assume are
    helpful because they are helping to bring attention to this
    issue. Similarly, if we were to enact a comprehensive statement
    of our kind of affirmation of basic human rights, would that be
    useful? Yes, okay.
        Mr. Sazegara. Yes, I can mention several cases including my
    case. I was in confines for 79 days. I was on a long hunger
    strike. And 800 students were arrested with me when they
    arrested me including my son who was a university student in
    those days. And international pressure was really, really
    effective to release not only me but all those students.
        And I think that more than just telling, and just by
    statements of that, something like Helsinki Accord, something
    which happened that put real pressure on the Communist bloc.
    Right now the sanctions has worked. They have brought the
    regime to the negotiation table. If we can use at least a part
    of these sanctions targeted to human rights, I believe, at
    least the people who are in charge of the violation of human
    rights in Iran be under sanction, I think that it works. And
    the letter soon will send the right signal to the people of
    Iran that the international community is concerned and puts
    real pressure on this regime.
        Mr. Arya. May I add something? I agree. And one thing I
    would really like to, if anything I would like to relay in this
    hearing is that Islamic regime only responds to force. Not just
    military force, but when they see that the international
    community is standing up firmly on any issue they eventually
    back off.
        In Europe during the 1980s and 1990s, more than 200 Iranian
    dissidents were assassinated all over Europe. European
    countries kind of looked the other way. They said, well, it is
    this element of a radical group in the regime or that group,
    and it didn't stop. It only stopped when after the massacre in
    Mykonos all the European countries got together, they pulled
    back their Ambassadors and they imposed some sanctions. Since
    then there hasn't been any assassinations that I know of. So
    they respond to firmness and united front, they will respond to
    that. Otherwise they will just do whatever they want.
        Mr. Cicilline. I just ask the chair if I might just ask the
    last two things. If you would speak to the current situation
    for members of the LGBT community in Iran, specifically are
    there concerns about the basic human rights of lesbian, gay,
    bisexual, and transgender community, and also if you could
    speak to any information you might have about Jason Rezaian, if
    I am pronouncing his name correctly, who is an American
    journalist and who was detained and has been detained. I
    understand that he hasn't been able to have his defense counsel
    meet with him, and whether or not there are current efforts
    underway that you are aware of to secure his release.
        Mr. Sazegara. As far as I know about Jason Rezaian, he has
    been kept in a confined cell and under pressure for TV
    confessions. And they have taped a TV confession from him that
    he is an agent of CIA and the secret services, and he has----
        Mr. Cicilline. This is the Washington Post correspondent,
    just for the people, yes.
        Mr. Sazegara. Yes. And the Revolutionary Guard has done
    that. And he has confessed that one of the relatives of Rouhani
    in his office has helped him and his connection, so they have
    made something out of his confessions to put pressure on
    Rouhani for internal clashes in the regime.
        So I know that Jason Rezaian is just a journalist and has
    not done anything, but this is what they do, how they behave.
    This is what they call it to make a scenario out of any
    political prisoner. So they have a TV confession from him, and
    I doubt that they finish this case easily unless you have a
    very, very heavy pressure on the regime.
        Mr. Arya. I have nothing to add to that.
        Mr. Cicilline. And with respect to the LGBT community?
        Mr. Arya. LGBT community are again it is against Sharia
    law, being gay, and they are under enormous pressure. The only
    group that I know of that are not kind of tolerated, if they
    want to go through sex change then they have provisions to
    allow that. But that is only a small group of LGBT community.
    If somebody is gay and wants to remain gay and wants to be
    lesbian or remain lesbian without going through sex change and
    things like that they will be persecuted. I mean I don't
    exactly know the time, but recently they told two gay men--just
    punish them, to kill them as part of the punishment prescribed
    in Sharia for gay people.
        So I don't see any kind of light in the end of the tunnel
    for that community in Iran so long as the Islamic regime is in
    power because they won't tolerate it. Because it goes against
    everything that they claim to stand by, so it undermines their
    legitimacy, undermines their claim of legitimacy in terms of
    religious doctrine that they prescribe to. I see no improvement
    in their situation except that small little group who want to
    go through the sex change. Other than that they are in terrible
    shape just like any other.
        Mr. Cicilline. Thank you very much again, and I thank the
    chair.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you very much.
        Mr. DeSantis?
        Mr. DeSantis. Thank you Madam Chairman.
        Mr. Sazegara, when you joined the Islamic Revolution in
    1979, you were there it seemed to be from, I read your bio,
    about 10 years before you left?
        Mr. Sazegara. Yes.
        Mr. DeSantis. 1988, is that when you left government?
        Mr. Sazegara. Yes.
        Mr. DeSantis. So did you change or was it the regime that
    changed?
        Mr. Sazegara. Both.
        Mr. DeSantis. So at the time you were, in 1979, because as
    I remember that time or think about the time, I was just a kid
    but there was dissatisfaction with the Shah, but there were a
    lot of people who didn't want an Islamic Revolution. They
    wanted a secular revolution. They just didn't want to have that
    ruling elite in power, and then obviously you had the Mullahs
    who wanted a Sharia revolution. So were you expecting a Sharia
    revolution or did you just think you would remove the Shah and
    have a chance to have a better Iran?
        Mr. Sazegara. Better to say that everybody on those days,
    the majority of the people, 35 million Iranian population those
    days, everybody was eager to have a revolution, an ideological
    revolution. At least the university educated people like me, we
    didn't think that an Islamic regime would be based on Sharia
    and the Mullahs would get all the power.
        In those days we were affected by leftists, and a version
    of Islam that I can call a revolutionary, ideological version
    of Islam was dominant in the Islamic movement and was effective
    to mobilize the people against Shah. But gradually after
    victory of revolution, the Mullahs got the upper hand by of
    course the leader of revolution, Ayatollah Khomenei who was a
    Grand Ayatollah. And gradually other factions of anti-Shah
    movement were dismissed, were suppressed, were massacred,
    during one decade. So anybody who didn't agree with them was
    under pressure.
        I personally, the change that, my changes were not only in
    this part from the theoretical point of view but in action,
    because for 4 or 5 years I was the head of the biggest
    industrial complex of Iran which owns about 140 huge
    manufacturing companies of Iran. And in practice I found out
    that many policies that we thought to run the country on were
    wrong as well, so I gradually----
        Mr. DeSantis. So it was a perfect storm for you.
        Mr. Sazegara. Yes, I left the regime in 1988.
        Mr. DeSantis. So what did you think when the Ayatollah
    started to fund and support groups like Hezbollah in Lebanon
    that would conduct terrorist attacks?
        Mr. Sazegara. It had started from the first decade. The
    idea of exportation of revolution was born with the revolution,
    like many other revolutions of course.
        Mr. DeSantis. And so that was a natural outgrowth to have
    outposts in Lebanon where you would have people who could
    conduct operations?
        Mr. Sazegara. Yes, and especially that several activists of
    the Islamic Revolution were trained in Lebanon and they lived
    in Lebanon for several years. And if precisely I can say it had
    started from an Office of Liberation Movements All Around the
    World in the Revolutionary Guard in 1981-1982, and gradually it
    was changed to Quds Corps and later it became Quds Force which
    were in charge of organizations like Hezbollah in Lebanon.
        Mr. DeSantis. So an attack such as the attack that was
    conducted on the U.S. Marines in Beirut in 1983, that would
    have been just a basic application of their revolutionary
    mindset, correct?
        Mr. Sazegara. Yes.
        Mr. DeSantis. So let me ask you now, fast forward, clearly
    this regime is one of the most repressive in the world. There
    was a chance it seemed in 2009 with the Green Movement where
    there were a lot of people who were really brave to express
    their dissatisfaction.
        The administration here in the United States made the
    decision that that was not something that they wanted to
    support. I think the reason was because they thought that that
    would jeopardize their ability to have a constructive
    relationship with the Ayatollah.
        The President has written the Ayatollah a number of
    letters. I think that was a mistake. I think that we need to be
    supporting groups who are challenging the regime and standing
    up for human rights in Iran. Do you agree that the United
    States should have been supportive of the Green Movement?
        Mr. Sazegara. Yes. Still I wear this green wristband. On
    that summer, summer of 2009, I was in Washington, DC, and I was
    one of the activists of the Green Movement. We had several
    meetings with the officials of administrations, but yes, you
    are right. No support. And in those days we didn't know that
    behind the curtain they are writing some letters to the leader
    of Iran----
        Mr. DeSantis. Right.
        Mr. Sazegara [continuing]. And some communications. But we
    didn't get any real support. And besides to that on those days
    I was on a weekly TV show in Voice of America, a talk show,
    which was very effective in the movement because we had the
    connection with the leaders of the movement. Not the leaders,
    the activists of the movement, and we could give information
    about the demonstrations, what is going on, and we had real
    problems in the Voice of America as well. I mean lots of
    pressure in the Voice of America. And at last that program was
    stopped.
        Mr. DeSantis. I have been frustrated, and I know that my
    friend from Florida, the chairman, has mentioned this that
    there is this, really, just lust to kind of have a kind of
    ``deal'' about these nukes. And a lot of us don't think that is
    going to be effective, but it will allow the administration to
    wave a sheet of paper. But because they are so eager bending
    over backwards to try to get a deal, they are really turning a
    blind eye to some of these human rights problems even more so
    than they had been doing previously.
        But with respect to this deal, Iran is one of the most
    energy-rich countries in the world. What do they need nuclear
    power for in terms of for peaceful purposes? I mean it just
    seems to me that you could see like France or some of these
    other countries that don't have access to energy, they have
    hundreds of years of energy reserves and they haven't even
    started fracking yet. So are you skeptical that they will use
    it for peaceful purposes?
        Mr. Sazegara. Yes, very much. I think that so far Iran has
    spent billions of dollars in this project and the value of
    whatever they have produced is just a couple of million
    dollars. And definitely it is not feasible to produce nuclear
    energy in Iran. Iran has the biggest supplies of natural gas in
    the world. Yes, definitely.
        Mr. DeSantis. Mr. Arya?
        Mr. Arya. May I add something to this? I think you should
    look at Islamic regime and its drive to this nuclear issue from
    the perspective of their security. I believe that they want
    this program for several reasons and they won't give it up. One
    is that if they go nuclear they have something to show to their
    own supporters. And yes, the economy is bad, yes, your lives
    are terrible, all that stuff, but look at the end, we made Iran
    an atomic, nuclear power. The second thing that they look for
    in my opinion is that they believe that if they get the bomb
    they have secured the regime.
        Mr. DeSantis. Right.
        Mr. Sazegara. Just like North Korea, nobody will be able to
    do anything. And that security is twofold. One is from outside
    threat; one is internal. I certainly believe that they in their
    minds and in their hearts' calculations they think that if they
    get the bomb they will be secure from outside threat, and
    internally if there is a big, huge uprising they can do
    anything they want without nobody being able to do anything.
    They can massacre hundreds of thousands of people and nobody
    will be able to do anything.
        So because of all these calculations, otherwise it doesn't
    make sense that they spend all this time, all this money,
    enduring all these sanctions that have damaged the Iranian
    economy to the point of almost collapse, hundreds and hundreds
    of billions of dollars damage to this economy for what? For
    generating power? It doesn't make sense. They want it for
    military application. If not they don't want it to make it
    maybe today or tomorrow, but they want to be so close to it
    that they will have that option anytime they want and they want
    to choose.
        And that is a security thing in their minds, in the mind of
    the Supreme Leader and the security apparatus around him, and
    all the Revolutionary Guard people who are controlling
    everything in Iran these days. They look at it as an insurance
    policy that they will use it for saving their own regime. That
    is----
        Mr. DeSantis. And so if you have freedom fighters and
    people who want to have an Iran in which individual liberty is
    respected, Iran has an advantageous deal where they can go
    nuclear, you are making it way more difficult that those forces
    of progress will succeed, correct?
        Mr. Arya. Exactly.
        Mr. DeSantis. One final. In terms of the nuclear ambitions,
    I agree with you. I mean it defies logic that they would do
    this stuff unless they wanted a military application. Because
    the losses that they have incurred to use it for peaceful
    energy, I mean they have the energy, and so you are 100 percent
    right about that.
        And I agree with you about the insurance aspect, and there
    are a lot of reasons why they would want to do it. What about
    the offensive use of nuclear weapons? People have said that
    they have said over and over again that they would like to
    eliminate Israel from the map. They obviously say death to
    America a lot.
        And while there are other countries who may be hostile to
    our allies or to us, we do have this deterrent capability,
    because obviously we have nuclear weapons and other countries
    may have them, but in the case of Iran, if they could take a
    potshot and take out Tel Aviv, let's say, and kill millions of
    Jews, they know they would get hit on return in Tehran or
    wherever and lose maybe more than a few million Iranians. But
    from their ideology they would say that they are hastening the
    return maybe of the Twelfth Imam, the people who are killed in
    Iran would be going straight to paradise.
        So do you think that them with nukes with that ideology, is
    that something that is a little bit different from some of the
    other nuclear powers that we have seen in the past whether it
    is the Soviet Union, whether it is North Korea, which is crazy
    but they do want to keep themselves in power, and they are
    Communists so they don't believe in an afterlife.
        Mr. Arya. There definitely is that aspect to it. I mean
    they are, I mean some elements within that regime they are not
    really rational people. And all those calculations may come
    into their play and that is why it is very dangerous for them
    to have that nuclear capability in terms of military
    application. However, if you look at the Islamic regime,
    whenever they have felt that they have the upper hand and
    whenever they have felt that they are secure they have gone
    aggressive. Their behavior has changed.
        I mean you look at from the very beginning, you look at the
    hostage crisis when they took over the American Embassy. The
    hostage takers, they admit that they only wanted to take the
    hostages for a couple of days, 3 or 4 days, to send a message
    and they will release them. As soon as the regime
    establishment, Khomenei and people around him, realized that
    the Carter administration is not going to do anything and it is
    safe to keep them, they kept them for 444 days.
        Iran-Iraq War, in 1982, Iranian forces liberated
    Khorramshahr. They pushed all the Iraqi forces back. At that
    time Iran was at the highest military position and Iraq was
    afraid, all the Arab countries in the Persian Gulf were afraid
    that Iran will enter the Iraqi territory. At that time
    everybody offered them all kinds of incentives to accept a
    ceasefire. They felt powerful. They didn't do that. They
    continued on. They marched on into Iraq, and they only accepted
    the ceasefire when they had nothing left basically. Even Mr.
    Rezaee at one point in one of his interviews admitted that had
    the war continued for another week they wouldn't even have
    ammunitions for their handguns. So they push all the way there.
        The same thing in Lebanon, in Syria, in Iraq and now in
    Yemen. You look at their behavior in Iraq. As soon as, I mean
    there is a very wonderful article in the New York Times about
    how this whole thing unfolded in Iraq, when after 9/11 they
    were extremely afraid that somehow America will go after them
    and they started cooperating with Ambassador Crocker. They
    tried to be nice to him and gave him some information and
    stuff. As soon as U.S. went into Iraq and they realized that
    there is no plan to move into Iran or do anything about their
    regime, they went aggressive and they caused all that chaos in
    Iraq.
        Mr. DeSantis. They were responsible for killing hundreds of
    U.S. service members.
        Mr. Arya. Exactly. Why do they do that? Because as soon as
    they feel secure, as soon as they feel that there is no
    repercussions for their actions they go aggressive. And they
    have showed it time and time and time again. If they ever get
    their hands on a nuclear bomb, if you think that they are
    aggressive now, wait until then. They won't even need to use
    that bomb to blow up Tel Aviv or anywhere else.
        There are hundreds of other things they can do to make life
    miserable not only for Israelis but for the whole region, as
    they have done so. I mean look at Syria, look at Iraq. I mean
    the carnage that they have caused is immeasurable, I mean in
    Iraq and everywhere.
        Mr. DeSantis. So what in the Congress, and everyone can
    opine on this. What do you recommend that we do? I know there
    are things geopolitically with how we would confront Iran and
    some of their proxies. But in terms of empowering opposition,
    empowering people who want a different, a better Iran, because
    I definitely know that although the regime is one of the most
    oppressive in the world there are millions of Iranians who are
    chafing under this and I think could be natural allies of ours.
    So what do you recommend that the Congress can do to empower
    those elements and ultimately to make Iran a better place?
        Mr. Arya. If you ask me, sir, the best thing that U.S. can
    do is get rid of this mentality of betting on the winning
    horse, per se. We need to identify people who are truly
    democratic and they are truly in line with our values in the
    West and just support them, give them platforms. Not
    necessarily money or anything, but just like give them
    platforms to express their views.
        I always think about Germany after World War II. In
    Germany, we in the U.S. just did and stood by helping
    everybody. They identified democratic forces within German
    society. They gave them financial support. They gave them
    political support. They gave them moral support. They gave them
    all kinds of assistance. And gradually say Christian Democrats,
    they started to grow and grow and grow and become more and more
    powerful. So that is the thing. Right now, for example, all
    this, the U.S. administration's attempt to say, use Quds Forces
    against ISIS, is just, it is ridiculous to me. I am sorry to
    say that but it is ridiculous. I mean to defeat one radical and
    to replace it with another radical, you don't gain anything.
        The best thing for the U.S. is to identify people who are
    truly aligned with our values in the West and give them moral
    support, give them platforms to expand their ideas. Right now
    in Voice of America, for example, and Mr. Sazegara mentioned
    it, a lot of moderate groups don't even get a chance to go over
    there and express their ideas. It is almost impossible to do.
        That is the best thing that U.S. Congress can do. Stand by
    democratic forces, promote them and give them encouragement,
    and stay away from all the other radicals whom we can use for
    short period of time, because that hasn't paid off. It just
    replaces one bad guy with another bad guy. And then in the
    process, the ordinary people they just blame America. They say
    hey, look at them. They are playing with us in order just, it
    is all a big game.
        The conspiracy theories are wild in the Middle East. They
    look at it and say, okay, well, America is using ISIS against
    Iran and Iran against ISIS. So this is just all a game for
    America. We should stay away from it. We should stand by people
    who are truly in line with our values. That is all I can say,
    sir.
        Mr. DeSantis. You guys want to chime in? What do you advise
    us to do?
        Mr. Sazegara. I have submitted a proposal, the appendix to
    my testimony. I kindly ask you to read that. And in that
    proposal I have suggested to have a standing subcommittee for
    human rights in Iran to watch very carefully the human rights
    and show that the Congress of the United States is concerned
    about the human rights in Iran.
        And put pressure on the sources of money of the
    institutions and the persons who abuse human rights in Iran,
    who violate human rights in Iran. The first person is the
    leader and then Revolutionary Guard and several other
    institutions. Forty percent of Iran's economy is controlled by
    these organizations.
        So Ayatollah Khamenei, the leader, insists that human
    rights should be off the table of any negotiation. I think
    Congress can put on the table, if not in this negotiation, the
    nuclear negotiation, in other commissions and say that okay,
    these sanctions will not be removed or new sanctions will be
    regulated in Congress to keep the hands of the suppression
    groups and forces in Iran off the people in Iran. So I think
    that this is the real force that they understand and will send
    a good signal to the people of Iran that the United States is
    concerned about their rights and their freedoms.
        Mr. DeSantis. Mr. Vance, you want to weigh in?
        Mr. Vance. We don't actually have any specific
    recommendations, so certainly we have been grateful for the
    resolutions that have usually been passed in each Congress that
    highlight the situation with respect to human rights and
    especially the Baha'is in Iran, but we don't have any
    recommendations on U.S. policy.
        Mr. DeSantis. Great. Well, I appreciate the witnesses.
    Really a lot of good information and a lot of good insights. So
    I thank you for coming.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much, Mr. DeSantis, for your
    deep interest in this important issue. Very good questions and
    excellent answers from our panelists.
        Unfortunately our subcommittee chairman, Mr. Smith, has
    been unavoidably detained, so with that our joint subcommittee
    hearing is now adjourned. Thank you to all.

        [Whereupon, at 4:20 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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