    [House Hearing, 114 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                      CLOSING THE TALENT GAP IN FEDERAL IT

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                                SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                             INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY

                                     OF THE

                             COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
                             AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                               SEPTEMBER 22, 2016

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 114-160

                                   __________

    Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

             Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov
                          http://www.house.gov/reform

                                      ______

                             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

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                  COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM

                         JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah, Chairman
    JOHN L. MICA, Florida                ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland,
    MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio                  Ranking Minority Member
    JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee       CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York
    JIM JORDAN, Ohio                     ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of
    TIM WALBERG, Michigan                    Columbia
    JUSTIN AMASH, Michigan               WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri
    PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona               STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
    SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee          JIM COOPER, Tennessee
    TREY GOWDY, South Carolina           GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
    BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas              MATT CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania
    CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming           TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
    THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
    MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina         BRENDA L. LAWRENCE, Michigan
    RON DeSANTIS, Florida                TED LIEU, California
    MICK, MULVANEY, South Carolina       BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN, New Jersey
    KEN BUCK, Colorado                   STACEY E. PLASKETT, Virgin Islands
    MARK WALKER, North Carolina          MARK DeSAULNIER, California
    ROD BLUM, Iowa                       BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
    JODY B. HICE, Georgia                PETER WELCH, Vermont
    STEVE RUSSELL, Oklahoma              MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM, New Mexico
    EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia
    GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin
    WILL HURD, Texas
    GARY J. PALMER, Alabama

                       Jennifer Hemingway, Staff Director
                          Sean Brebbia, Senior Counsel
                              William Marx, Clerk
                     David Rapallo, Minority Staff Director
                                     ------

                     Subcommittee on Information Technology

                           WILL HURD, Texas, Chairman
    BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas, Vice Chair  ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois, Ranking
    MARK WALKER, North Carolina              Member
    ROD BLUM, Iowa                       GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
    PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona               TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
                                         TED LIEU, California

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page
    Hearing held on September 22, 2016...............................     1

                                   WITNESSES

    Dr. Joan Ferrini-Mundy, Assistant Director, Education and Human
      Resources, National Science Foundation
        Oral Statement...............................................     2
        Written Statement............................................     4
    Mr. Scott Montgomery, Vice President and Chief Technical
      Strategist, Intel Security
        Oral Statement...............................................    13
        Written Statement............................................    16
    Mr. Gene Bowman, Executive Director, Alamo Academies
        Oral Statement...............................................    24
        Written Statement............................................    26
    Mr. Emile Cambry, Founder, Blue1647
        Oral Statement...............................................    57
        Written Statement............................................    60

                                    APPENDIX

    Opening Statement of Ranking Member Kelly........................    76
    Statement for the Record submitted by The Computing Technology
      Industry Association...........................................    78

                      CLOSING THE TALENT GAP IN FEDERAL IT

                                  ----------

                          Thursday, September 22, 2016

                      House of Representatives,
                Subcommittee on Information Technology,
                  Committee on Oversight and Government Reform,
                                                       Washington, D.C.
        The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 3:27 p.m., in
    Room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Will Hurd
    [chairman of the subcommittee] presiding.
        Present: Representatives Hurd, Kelly, and Connolly.
        Mr. Hurd. The Subcommittee on Information Technology will
    come to order. And without objection, the chair is authorized
    to declare a recess at any time.
        We are going to be a little pressed for time today. We are
    going to have a hard stop before votes come out. And so with
    that, I am going to submit my opening statement for the record
    so that we can get to the reason why we are here, and that is
    to talk to our great panel that we have today.
        Mr. Hurd. And I am going to hold the record open for five
    legislative days for any members who would like to submit a
    written statement.
        I want to recognize our panel of witnesses. I am pleased to
    welcome Dr. Joan Ferrini-Mundy, the assistant director of
    Education and Human Resources at the National Science
    Foundation; Mr. Scott Montgomery, vice president and chief
    technical strategist at Intel Security; Mr. Gene Bowman
    executive director of Alamo Academies and from my hometown of
    San Antonio; and Emile Cambry, the founder of BLUE1647.
        And welcome to you all. And pursuant to committee rules,
    all witnesses will be sworn in before they testify. So please
    rise and raise your right hands.
        [Witnesses sworn.]
        Mr. Hurd. Thank you. Please be seated.
        Let the record reflect the witnesses answered in the
    affirmative.
        And in order to allow time for discussion, please limit
    your testimony to five minutes, and your entire written
    statement will be part of the record.
        And again, thank you for being here on such an important
    issue of closing the talent gap in Federal IT. In my 21 months,
    this is the one thing I have heard consistently as a problem
    not only in the government but in the private sector, and it is
    great to have such a distinguished panel here to talk about
    this and also advocate some ways that we can help work together
    and solve this problem.
        And with that, I would like to recognize Dr. Ferrini-Mundy
    for your opening remarks.

                          WINTNESS STATEMENTS

                    STATEMENT OF JOAN FERRINI-MUNDY

        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Good afternoon, Chairman Hurd, Ranking
    Member Kelly, and other distinguished members of the
    Subcommittee on Information Technology. My name is Joan
    Ferrini-Mundy, and I'm the National Science Foundation's
    assistant director for Education and Human Resources. Thank you
    so much for the opportunity to testify before you today on this
    critical topic for our nation, the preparation of a workforce
    to provide our nation's cybersecurity.
        The directorate that I lead has a unique and crucial
    mission at a science agency within the Federal Government; that
    is, supporting the preparation of a diverse, globally competent
    science, technology, engineering, and mathematics--or STEM--
    workforce and a STEM-literate citizenry. We do this by
    providing grants to research and education organizations and
    institutions across the country to support innovation in STEM
    education to build capacity in STEM education for diverse
    students and to do research and evaluation of those efforts.
        Our funding supports both formal education and education
    outside the formal system, for example, work in museums, public
    television programming, and other public engagement. And in
    addition, we fund very important programs for scholarships and
    fellowships.
        Our education investments are closely related to the
    National Science Foundation's research investments,
    particularly in the area of secure and trustworthy computing
    where we fund leading researchers in cybersecurity areas from
    cryptanalysis to cyber physical systems to social networking
    and more.
        Today, I'll focus on just a few of the NSF programs that
    help to build the Nation's workforce for information technology
    and cybersecurity. Specifically, NSF's CyberCorps Scholarship
    for Service, or SFS program, was launched in 2001. We
    coordinate closely with the Office of Personnel Management and
    with the Department of Homeland Security to continue to recruit
    and educate the next generation of cybersecurity professionals
    broadly defined.
        SFS makes awards to institutions of higher education to
    provide scholarships to undergraduate and graduate students in
    strong academic programs in cybersecurity and to develop and
    enhance those cybersecurity programs so that they can remain at
    the cutting edge and of the highest quality.
        Students may be supported for up to three years, and in
    return, they agree to take cybersecurity positions in local,
    State, tribal, or Federal Government for the same duration as
    their scholarships.
        To date, the overall placement in cybersecurity-related
    positions for SFS graduates in government is 94 percent. As of
    last month, there were 62 active SFS institutions, nearly 3,000
    scholarship recipients over the 16 years of the program, over
    2,000 graduates, and over 600 current scholarship-holders.
        NSF's Advanced Technological Education, or ATE, program
    also has a very strong presence in information technology and
    cybersecurity education. That program makes competitive awards
    to community colleges that partner with other academic
    institutions and with local industry to education science and
    engineering students for technician positions. These are
    students at the undergraduate and secondary school levels. ATE
    funds comprehensive centers which may have either a national or
    regional focus, and currently, they are supporting six large
    cybersecurity-focused centers that serve the entire nation.
        NSF also supports the development of a high technology
    workforce for the Nation at the undergraduate and graduate
    levels through several other programs, including the Research
    Experiences for Undergraduates program, which offers intensive
    summer research experiences in all areas of STEM, including
    cybersecurity.
        Taking a longer view, NSF aims to fund projects that
    inspire K-through-12 students to consider high technology and
    cybersecurity careers. The SFS program has partnered with the
    National Security Agency to offer summer camps for K-through-12
    students and teachers to build the pipeline.
        And to help provide better access to computer science at
    the K-through-12 level, NSF has taken on a leading role in the
    Computer Science for All initiative with a commitment of $120
    million over the next five years. Introduction to computational
    thinking and to elements of computer science at the K-through-
    12 level can help lay groundwork for the wider range of career
    choices later on.
        Finally, NSF partners with other Federal agencies in
    cybersecurity education through the activities of the National
    Science and Technology Council Committee on STEM Education, the
    National Initiative for Cybersecurity Education, and the
    Cybersecurity National Action Plan.
        Thank you so much for the opportunity to testify today on a
    topic that we at the NSF see as critical for our nation's
    future. I will be pleased to answer any questions that you and
    the other members of the committee may have.
        [Prepared statement of Ms. Ferrini-Mundy follows:]

     [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Hurd. Well, Dr. Ferrini-Mundy, I have got to say, we
    have only been doing this for five minutes, you have already
    gotten me excited about a couple of things that you mentioned
    in your opening remarks.
        And also, I want to add I was a beneficiary of an NSF
    program when I was in high school. I got to do an internship at
    the Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio in robotics,
    and that got me excited about computer science, and that is why
    I studied computer science at Texas A&M University. So I am a
    big fan of what you all do. And this is something that I want
    to make sure more kids like me have access to this. So thank
    you for being here.
        Mr. Montgomery, you are now recognized for five minutes.

                     STATEMENT OF SCOTT MONTGOMERY

        Mr. Montgomery. Good afternoon, Chairman Hurd and members
    of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify
    today. My name is Scott Montgomery. I'm the vice president and
    chief technical strategist of the Intel Security Group, and my
    testimony will focus on cybersecurity skills gap and what the
    government, in collaboration with the private sector, can do to
    close it.
        I've been--I've spent 20 years building, designing,
    testifying--or, excuse me, testing and certifying information
    security and privacy solutions for a variety of public and
    private sector organizations.
        Intel is a global leader in computing innovation, designing
    and building the essential foundational technologies that
    support the world's computing devices. When you combine this
    experience with Intel Security's market-leading cybersecurity
    solutions, we bring a unique understanding of the challenges
    threatening our nation's digital infrastructure and global e-
    commerce.
        Despite facing an ever-changing threat landscape, further
    complicated by the sharp rise in Internet-enabled devices in
    our personal lives, the job for security practitioners hasn't
    changed: Protect vital services and data from theft,
    manipulation, and loss due to external and internal
    adversaries. We do, however, need to change the way we do our
    job by focusing on ways to reduce security fragmentation,
    automate tasks, and force multiply capabilities.
        Organizations both in the public as well as private sector
    are now more vulnerable in more places. Adversaries are
    increasingly capable of commandeering strategic assets and
    including the critical infrastructure, yet most organizations
    still lack the resources necessary to adequately monitor their
    networks and defend against these sophisticated attacks.
        Earlier this year, the Center for Strategic and
    International Studies, in partnership with Intel Security,
    released ``Hacking the Skills Shortage,'' a global report
    outlining the global talent crisis. The results of the research
    were both stunning and informative.
        A majority of respondents--82 percent--admitted to having a
    shortage of cybersecurity skills, with 71 percent citing this
    shortage as having a direct and measurable impact upon their
    organization and making them more valuable hacking targets.
        In 2015 alone, 209,000 cybersecurity jobs went unfilled in
    the United States, in just the United States. Despite 1 in 4
    respondents confirming their organizations have lost
    proprietary data as a result of this specific skills gap, there
    are no signs that this workforce shortage will abate in the
    near term. Respondents estimated an average of 15 percent of
    their company's available cybersecurity positions could go
    fully unfilled by 2020.
        If the demand for these professionals continues to outpace
    the supply of qualified workers, the United States will face a
    deficit of around one million workers in the next five to ten
    years. With expanding attack surfaces and an increasing
    advanced targeted attacks around the world, the need for a
    technically stronger and numerically increased cyber workforce
    is critical.
        So one of the immediate steps we can take to address this
    issue, in addition to many other sound policy recommendations,
    the President's Cybersecurity National Action Plan, CNAP, calls
    for a $62 million increase in spending to expand training and
    educational programs. Specifically, the plan would build out
    the existing CyberCorps Scholarship for Service program, which
    provides cyber education scholarships in exchange for service
    in the Federal civilian government. This investment is a great
    step forward, but we need to be prepared to do a lot more.
        In particular, we recommend an even larger financial
    investment in existing Federal workforce and education
    programs, a diversity of career paths for interested students,
    and stronger coordination on these initiatives with the private
    sector and industry.
        As Intel Security vice president and general manager Chris
    Young and Chairman Hurd have both urged in the past, the
    government should consider the creation of a Cyber National
    Guard program. The CyberCorps Scholarship for Service and
    reserve programs are ideally situated for students looking to
    pay back their scholarships up front with two or three years in
    Federal service.
        Also, at the State or Federal level, an expanded SFS or
    SFS-style grant program could train and educate a new class of
    cyber practitioners prepared to serve their government on a
    full-time, part-time, or as-needed basis while gaining critical
    experience with the latest private sector innovations.
        The private sector must also be prepared to level-up its
    collaboration with the government to ensure a steady supply of
    worthwhile internships, co-ops, and training opportunities. In
    the CSIS report, a lack of quality training opportunities was
    cited as a significant reason why cyber practitioners seek
    alternative employment. For this reason, it is not only
    imperative that public sector entities compensate their cyber
    professionals well but also provide ample opportunities for
    employees to learn new skills and train on cutting-edge
    technologies.
        Intel supports these efforts through a number of
    initiatives, including investments in STEM education for women
    and girls, curriculum development, a robust paid internship
    program, and partnerships with universities like Purdue, the
    University of Massachusetts, and the U.S. Air Force Academy.
        Finally, investing in more efficient technologies and
    modernizing outdated IT systems will reduce the burden on
    scarce human resources. The CNAP prioritizes this by calling
    for a $3.1 billion IT modernization fund to transform
    cybersecurity management. This initiative has received some
    congressional support with the introduction and successful
    markup of the MOVE IT Act, which would enable retirement,
    replacement, and modernization of legacy IT that is difficult
    to secure and expensive to maintain, and reward government
    departments and agencies who go through harvesting money back
    out of their programs.
        Building out these education and workforce initiatives, in
    tandem with investments in more efficient cyber technologies,
    will make a vital down payment toward closing the cybersecurity
    skills gap.
        I would like to once again thank this distinguished panel
    for giving me the opportunity to discuss these challenges and
    strongly believe that public-private collaboration will
    continue to be our best defense. Thank you.
        [Prepared statement of Mr. Montgomery follows:]

      [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Hurd. Thank you, Mr. Montgomery, and thank you for the
    reference of the MOVE IT Act, which we had to rename the MGT
    Act, which passed this morning by the way, and that is a pretty
    significant thing and it was because of the great leadership of
    folks like Robin Kelly to make that happen.
        And I also want to thank your organization and Ms. Kelly
    because this idea of a Cyber National Guard really sunk in with
    me at our field hearing in Chicago. And I am glad we went and
    did that, and I am glad, through you all's participation, and
    it really is what--you know, that kind of collaboration outside
    the Beltway with, you know, participants, you know, outside the
    government where you really get some of these cutting-edge
    ideas. So thank you for that.
        Mr. Bowman, welcome. Did you bring me any breakfast tacos?
        Mr. Bowman. I should have. I ate them. Sorry.
        Mr. Hurd. Well, Mr. Bowman, you are now recognized for your
    opening remarks for five minutes.

                        STATEMENT OF GENE BOWMAN

        Mr. Bowman. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman and members
    of the committee, I'm pleased to be here today speaking to you
    on behalf of the Alamo Academies.
        The Academies are an outstanding program providing
    opportunities and clear pathways for young men and women to
    achieve their American dream. I would like to briefly describe
    the model, then spend the remainder of the time sharing a few
    stories of our successful graduates who are today closing the
    talent gap in the Federal IT career field, as well in the
    private sector.
        The Alamo Academies is an innovative STEM--you heard it
    before, science, technology, engineering, mathematics--demand-
    based model connecting high school juniors and seniors with
    employers. These students earn 30 college credits at no
    personal cost, they obtain nationally recognized industry
    certificates, and they participate in an experiential learning
    environment between their junior and senior summer, a paid
    internship, the program's key component kind of like what you
    did earlier in your career, where they have the opportunity
    during this internship to apply the knowledge and skills they
    learned in the college classroom in a real-world environment
    leading to high-wage jobs or further higher education while
    addressing critical workforce needs.
        And let me tell you about five of our graduates who are
    cyber warriors today. Two of them are 22, one is 19, and the
    other two are 18 years old, and all five share the following
    experiences. They participated in the Academy's Information
    Technology Security Academy. They completed paid internships
    with cybersecurity industry partners. They all have earned
    multiple national industry certificates. They all competed in
    the Air Force Association's CyberPatriot competition. They were
    all on the Academy's team that won the local mayor's Cyber Cup
    competition as the best CyberPatriot team in the San Antonio
    region. And each of their teams also made it to the top 12 in
    the Nation and competed in the CyberPatriot National
    Championship in Washington, D.C.
        As a side note and bragging a little bit, the Academy's
    team has won the mayor's Cyber Cup and advanced the national
    champions competition five out of the last six years. Two of
    these young men, Mario and Robert, were on the National
    Championship Team in 2012. Both Mario and Robert and the other
    14 members accomplished their paid internship with the
    Department of Defense at the Air Force's 33rd Network Warfare
    Squadron as entry-level security analysts. Each was awarded a
    secret clearance at 17 years of age and also offered part-time
    employment during their senior year helping defend our nation.
        At 22, Mario already has six years of intense cybersecurity
    experience supporting DOD initiatives, and shortly after
    graduation from the Academies, Mario was offered a position at
    the Pentagon right down the road here as a computer network
    defense analyst with an interim top-secret SCI clearance. He
    recently returned to San Antonio as a lead cybersecurity
    analyst with a DOD contractor supporting the Air Force's Weapon
    and Tactics Team known as the Computer Emergency Response Team,
    which I know you're familiar with.
        Mario has also added recruiter to his duties. He recruited
    two of our recent graduates to be part of our Cyber Warrior
    talent pipeline. These two graduates, Reed and Kyle, are both
    18. They're CyberPatriot national finalists, completed paid
    internships with cybersecurity industry partners, and are
    starting their careers as tier II security analysts.
        Finally, two other examples, Skylar and Robert, Skylar is
    19 years old, CyberPatriot national finalist--seeing a theme
    here--and is employed as a security analyst with the same
    cybersecurity consulting agency in San Antonio that he
    accomplished his paid internship with, a smart move by that
    company, growing their own workforce.
        Robert, 22, has taken his cybersecurity talent into the
    private sector. He's a security analyst, is a member of the
    Information Security Operations Center for his IT company in
    San Antonio. All of these young men have accelerated their
    careers with great salaries, benefits, and no college debt.
    They're having a transformational impact on their families and
    our community. These outstanding graduate stories are part of
    today's submitted written testimony.
        So the moral of this story, a solid model, the Alamo
    Academies, a community collaborative with college-level
    instruction, national industry certificates integrated into the
    curriculum, connected to industry through paid internships
    where the student receives real-world experiences and mentoring
    and providing opportunities to participate in competitive
    programs like CyberPatriot. It's producing outstanding talent
    immediately out of high school to help close the talent gap in
    Federal IT and the private sector.
        I want to thank you for your time and the opportunity to
    share the Alamo Academies story.
        [Prepared statement of Mr. Bowman follows:]

     [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Hurd. Mr. Bowman, thank you for that. And it gives me
    hope that we are producing the kind of talent we need in order
    to defend our digital infrastructure.
        Mr. Bowman. Thank you.
        Mr. Hurd. Mr. Cambry, you are now recognized for your
    opening remarks for five minutes.

                       STATEMENT OF EMILE CAMBRY

        Mr. Cambry. Thank you, Chairman Hurd, Ranking Member Kelly,
    and all the esteemed members of the Committee on Oversight and
    Government Reform for the opportunity to testify for you today.
        My name is Emile Cambry. I'm the oldest child of an
    immigrant from Haiti and an African-American woman on the west
    side of Chicago. In their youth, my parents endured the
    frustration of economic hardship and the pain and indignity of
    racism and anti-immigrant sentiment firsthand.
        But they overcame the frustration, they overcame the pain,
    and they overcame the indignity to become a doctor and a nurse.
    They had the work ethic and the access to opportunity necessary
    to do what statistics said they never would do--succeed.
        And they made sure they did everything possible to give my
    younger brother and sister the opportunities to overcome the
    obstacles necessary for us to attend top institutions. Thanks
    to their sacrifice, I was able to study economics at the
    University of Chicago and business at Northwestern University's
    graduate school.
        I've since had the opportunity to work at JP Morgan Chase
    in their investment banking unit and teach graduate-level
    business and economic courses at three graduate institutions.
        My parents and all of my life's experience up until three
    years ago helped me realize one thing. Entire communities and
    generations of hardworking, incredibly talented men, women, and
    youth are not being given access to the very opportunities that
    helped my family overcome the hardships in their life.
        That's why I founded an organization that addresses that,
    BLUE1647, to bring opportunity to opportunity deserts across
    the country. BLUE1647 transforms lives and communities by going
    into these opportunity deserts and providing residents with
    access to 21st century tech skills so they can too access the
    opportunities necessary for them to overcome the hardships in
    their life.
        The formula was simple: Go where the need is greatest;
    teach those interested in the most marketable skills; and see
    people overcome poverty, racism, and other hardships in a way
    that you've never seen before.
        And today, I'd like to take the time to talk about how the
    various programs and public sector partnerships I've had the
    chance to build are turning communities with few prospects into
    hubs for tech rock stars that can and will yield an ecosystem
    of diverse talent to fill the 1.2 million new tech jobs that
    will need to be filled by 2020 in this country, and that
    includes Federal IT.
        And already we're starting to see that vision come to
    fruition. While we were founded in Chicago just three years
    ago, thanks to the support of people like Congresswoman Kelly,
    we've since grown to have our tech centers present in eight
    cities and serve over 16,000 youth and adults. Our classes have
    included everything from app and software development,
    traditional IT, cybersecurity, and the Internet of Things.
        Physical location of our innovation centers are important,
    which is why we target in lower socioeconomic areas, and 95
    percent of our students are black or Latino.
        But we don't water down our curriculum because of space,
    place, age, or income. Our software development curriculum is
    Department of Labor-certified for our technology apprenticeship
    program.
        I'd like to take a moment to highlight some of the programs
    and success stories. Our 1919 Program is our Women in Tech and
    Entrepreneurship program. Since its inception a year ago, over
    200 women have participated in our cohort-based program, which
    is 12 weeks in length. We have various tracks and have created
    a community approach for skill development in IT. We will soon
    be adding tracks in project management and cybersecurity.
        We have over a 97 percent net promoter score, and an
    additional 75 women have begun our program this week. All of
    these women are black or Latino.
        Our 21st Century Youth Project is for students as young as
    4 and as old as 17 where we have had some great successes in
    cohort-based training. We have had students intern at Google,
    Answers.com, Accenture, and Microsoft, including starting their
    own ventures. Over 70 students have gone on to matriculate into
    computer science and engineering programs.
        We have hosted the Chief Officers for the United States
    Digital Services Team, United States Chief Data Officer D.J.
    Patil, and have held general recruiting events around Federal
    IT opportunities and careers. Over 200 were in attendance for
    one event, and the major takeaway was that you can serve your
    country using the technology skills, which was a new concept to
    many of our attendees.
        We have executed some tremendous public and private
    partnerships to plant seeds in areas you would not expect. In
    St. Louis, we are a partner in the Jobs-Plus program, a Federal
    HUD program over four years to increase employment prospects in
    housing developments. The housing development we focused on is
    the Clinton Peabody development, where we became--where before
    the program started had a 68 percent unemployment rate, 93
    percent were led by a single mother. At the development, we are
    partnered with the St. Louis Housing Authority, the workforce
    development arm of the--St. Louis, SLATE, and the NAACP of St.
    Louis.
        BLUE1647 installed community Wi-Fi, so residents can
    participate in having Internet access, and we focus on bridging
    the digital divide.
        We conduct technology classes for adults during the day and
    provide afterschool technology immersion for youth after
    school.
        In addition to working with one housing development in St.
    Louis, we started working in six housing developments in Los
    Angeles this week. We do--the more we can replicate our model
    and support other programs like ours, we ultimately create a
    pipeline of tech talent who will be naturally interested in
    technology careers
        Thank you for your time, I'll gladly take any questions
    that members of the committee might have.
        [Prepared statement of Mr. Cambry follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Hurd. Mr. Cambry, I am usually at these hearings--I
    usually get outraged when I hear opening remarks, but this time
    I am inspired by what is going on, so thank you for being here
    for that.
        And I believe the ranking member is going to submit her
    opening remarks for the record, is that correct? Without
    objection, so moved.
        Mr. Hurd. I am going to recognize myself for five minutes
    and go back and forth with Ms. Kelly until we get the going to
    go to the Floor for votes. And, Ms. Ferrini-Mundy, my first
    question for you is these SFS CyberCorps, you said there is
    about a little over 2,000 graduates from that program starting
    in 2001. You said about 600 active. What is the head room? Have
    we hit the cap?
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Well, we're always looking for
    institutions that can come into the fold. We're funding about
    62 different institutions right now, and so a big piece of our
    activity is to build capacity in more places so that we can
    broaden out the access for students more widely.
        Mr. Hurd. So the scholarships, it is basically a
    scholarship. There is a dollar amount ----
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Right.
        Mr. Hurd.--it is a range, right, depending on ----
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Right.
        Mr. Hurd.--the institution. How many more of these could we
    be doing? Let's assume we have, you know, miraculously you
    can--I'll let you borrow my magic wand. We have these
    institutions. Do we have an idea of, you know, is it 600 more
    students, is it 100 more students, is it 10 more students?
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. I mean, we could get back to you with a
    closer analysis of that. It varies by institution type.
        Mr. Hurd. Right.
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. We're trying to build up our involvement
    with community colleges so that we again ----
        Mr. Hurd. Yes.
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy.--see more of a pipeline.
        Mr. Hurd. Could we make--I am sure Mr. Bowman would love to
    be the first, you know, to help be one of the ones that help
    make that--I don't want to speak for you, Mr. Bowman, but I am
    assuming you are not part of the 62 institutions that receive
    some of these CyberCorps scholarships, is that correct?
        Mr. Bowman. Mr. Hurd, we're not today, but we surely can be
    tomorrow.
        Mr. Hurd. Making things happen, huh, Robin Kelly, right
    here?
        And one other thing, and, you know, I am interested in the
    CyberCorps primarily to figure this idea of a Cyber National
    Guard, right? These are going to be folks that don't go
    necessarily in the DOD or the NSA but Social Security
    Administration, Department of Homeland Security, Department of
    Interior. We need people there. And to be able to get them out
    of university when they know that they are going to spend X
    number of years there and that they probably have a job already
    waiting, a good-paying job with a company that is willing to
    loan them back to the Federal Government is important. So I
    have a lot of questions around that.
        But the Computer Science for All program, is that something
    that BLUE1647 is able to tap into? And I would love your
    thoughts on whether that is, and, Mr. Cambry, you know, whether
    that is something that you are even interested in.
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. I mean, absolutely. We have a number of
    different places where that program is being funded, most--
    primarily in our Innovative Technology Experiences for Students
    and Teachers, and we accept applications from all eligible
    places. We'd love to have great connections that go beyond the
    set of institutions that we typically see.
        So inclusion is a very strong emphasis for us. The other
    place where we are seeing phenomenal engagement from
    communities, from community-based organizations, from a variety
    of industry sectors is under our new INCLUDES program, which
    has 7 of its 37 First Awards are collaboratives among community
    organizations focused on high-tech engagement with minority
    students.
        Mr. Hurd. Mr. Cambry, are you willing to participate and
    learn more about it?
        Mr. Cambry. Absolutely. And for centers like our housing
    developments, we really look at that as truly a model that we
    can truly expand and scale, and having programs that--with the
    curriculum that's already tried and tested only makes our jobs
    easier, which is trying to create a culture of technology
    development to get people excited and engaged and pursue paths
    and careers in technology.
        Mr. Hurd. Great. Thank you. And back to the CyberCorps for
    a second, the CNAP talks about investing more money into that
    program. So, again, when you get back to me on the details,
    where do we think that headroom is, right, because, look, in
    Texas alone in 2015 we had 42,000 computing jobs that went
    unfilled, right? And we are not producing enough to fill that,
    and that is just in private sector, I believe. And the need in
    the Federal Government is even more.
        And so I am going to stop there and turn it over to my
    ranking member and come back and ask some more questions about
    kind of structurally how we can do this in the private sector.
        My good friend and the distinguished gentlelady from the
    great State of Illinois is now recognized for five minutes.
        Ms. Kelly. Thank you so much. First, I just want to
    congratulate you on all your hard work with the bill that was
    passed today. It showed bipartisanship, which people don't
    think we can do, but we have done that on this committee. And
    welcome all of you. I just, though, have to give a special
    shout-out to Mr. Cambry. Emails on my STEM Council that I
    started when I came in the Congress--I have a STEM Council and
    the STEM Academy, and he has helped us greatly, so thank you so
    much. And thanks for all of your testimony.
        I too am very, very concerned about the jobs that go
    unfulfilled but also the lack of Latinos and African-Americans
    that are prepared to fill those jobs. And it is extremely
    important. And when I think about a district like mine where
    our unemployment rate is--even though everything has gone down
    but it is still higher than the national average. And then when
    I visit companies and I hear that they can't find--they don't
    even need to be college graduates but they still can't find
    people to fill those positions. So I am very interested in how
    we can diversify and fill those positions. And they are
    positions that are not minimum-paying jobs but good-paying jobs
    that you can have middle-class income and do the things that
    you need to do.
        I had a set of questions, but listening to you guys, what
    more do you think that Congress needs to do to help reach these
    goals of filling these jobs, more diversification? Do you see--
    besides things we are doing today, how can we be more helpful,
    I guess? And that is anybody. Don't be shy.
        Mr. Montgomery. I think one of the things that is already
    in motion, if you look at this administration, this has been a
    very forward-thinking, forward-leaning administration with
    respect to cyber, the number of policies, the number of
    directives, the risk management framework itself.
        One of the things I would urge is that regardless of what
    happens shortly that that energy continue because this is a
    topic that we can't take a four-year break on ----
        Ms. Kelly. Right.
        Mr. Montgomery.--we can't take a four-hour break on, we
    can't take a four-minute break on.
        One of the things that I think would actually help in
    addition to that, Intel in 2015 we've committed $300 million to
    the similar topics as my fellow panelists with respect to women
    and underrepresented minorities to make the workforce more
    diverse specifically in technology.
        But there has to be--there has to be some protection for
    the U.S. Government for its own employees. And what I would
    suggest is that Congress look at modifying the way that
    talented Federal cyber employees are compensated, retained, and
    trained because the lure to the private sector is intense
    because, as you mentioned, Ms. Kelly, the number of spots that
    are open is so demanding that people are looking down the
    street when the only change is money because of that intense
    demand. And we need to make sure that our Federal workforce in
    particular--and this is what Congress can help with--remains
    highly paid, highly trained, highly effective, and highly
    motivated to stay.
        Mr. Bowman. If I may, Ms. Kelly, thank you for the question
    about what Congress can do.
        For the Alamo Academies, a community collaborative program,
    homegrown, one of the things that drive that model with our
    industry partners is a pull system--not a push--a pull system
    to industry demands and requirements to meet their needs.
        And, as Chairman Hurd indicated, he had an internship with
    Southwest Research Institute that kind of got him excited about
    his career and got him on a pathway. That's exactly what the
    Academies are doing today with this model.
        We had over 45 internships last year alone just from the IT
    Academy and about 120 internships in all five academies. That
    model is limited because our capacity depends on how many
    internships we can get with companies. So any incentive--and
    many of our industry partners on the Academies board would love
    to come and help you work on that issue. Any incentive that can
    encourage and motivate companies to take on these internship
    responsibilities even at high school level would show that high
    school young men and women can accomplish these duties and they
    can do it successfully if they're in the right model and
    they're mentored properly. And we're showing that this is
    working and it's been working for the last 16 years.
        In regards to minorities, though, San Antonio is a
    majority-minority community, and over 70 percent of our
    graduates are Hispanics today and 6 percent are African-
    American. So I think we're achieving that in our local
    community and modeled like the Academy can do that in whatever
    community that they're in like Mr. Cambry here, you know.
    You've got a couple of great models here.
        But incentivizing our industry partners to want to take on
    these internships, there is some cost to them to do that, but
    the benefit to homegrown product pays off hugely when they
    come, and that loyalty and that culture they get by getting
    exposed to it early in life. And they don't have any bad
    habits. They're coming in very young, and it's easy to get a
    secret clearance because they haven't done anything bad yet.
        [Laughter.]
        Ms. Kelly. Did you have any thoughts about ----
        Mr. Cambry. Yes, and I will just add into that. One of the
    reasons why we pursued this apprenticeship model for software
    development was because it gave us stamp of approval that we
    can take to employers to say they've been trained, this
    curriculum has been certified, and on top of that we're trying
    to include folks that otherwise might have been excluded.
        So I think that, you know, in addition to what Mr. Bowman
    has mentioned, any incentives that we can get more employers on
    board that can give us some opportunities to folks that
    otherwise wouldn't have gotten them because, once again, as he
    mentioned, when you don't have college debt and you're still
    able to pursue some revenue for your family, and especially to
    be able to jump into the middle class, it has a tremendous
    effect not just for that family but for that community to say
    that this is a possible pathway and this is a pathway we can be
    successful in in a relatively short amount of time with some
    very intensive training.
        Ms. Kelly. How do you get the word out about your programs
    because that is always my concern, too, that sometimes entities
    like yours don't know what is out there for you as far as
    grants because maybe we don't do a good enough job getting the
    word out, but also how do the young people know that you exist?
    What do you do to get the word out? Any order.
        Mr. Montgomery. May I just--so it's funny that you're
    asking that because I was thinking the exact same thing. I--
    with respect to Mr. Bowman's comments, I think there would be a
    line of employers with paid internships and programs where a
    matriculating student would enter the internship's
    organization. I think people would line up around the block
    because they don't have an alternative today. And I think the
    challenge is one of awareness.
        One of the things that we're doing--and we've sort of
    relegated our efforts to higher education--is with respect to
    that exact kind of awareness between local centers such as the
    University of Massachusetts. We reach out to local employers
    who are having trouble employing and doing internship programs
    for kids who are currently in hands-on programs at the
    university.
        I think industry can help by joining forces with the kinds
    of organizations that NSF and other government organizations
    have designated to say, look, here's a workforce that wants to
    work. They actually want to work, and they want to come help
    you with your problems. We constantly get asked for those
    resources. We don't have them either. So I think it is
    absolutely a challenge of awareness, but I think industry can
    help with these kinds of outreach as well.
        Mr. Bowman. If I may, opportunities like this to be able to
    come to Washington, D.C., and talk about programs that are
    being successful in the communities that are working together,
    there's been historical bias that you had to be a four-year
    graduate to be in the IT career field. And fortunately, the
    last six or seven years, programs like the Academies connecting
    with opportunities like the Air Force Association CyberPatriot
    program where they're getting these young men and women exposed
    to these opportunities so much earlier in life that you're
    creating that skill set that they can do the job.
        And now, we have enough--well, we don't have enough but
    we're getting graduates out there in the community with
    Department of Defense, Defense contractors, and then showing
    them that they can do this work. So we don't have the companies
    lined up yet, but I believe in just a few short years with more
    marketing and exposure and seeing how there's multiple career
    pathways.
        You go to college--Robert, one of our examples, went
    straight to college and came out and got offered a job a year
    before he graduated. One of them went right into the workforce.
    Mario went up to Defense with the Pentagon, so he used a career
    path. And the other three are using a hybrid. They're going to
    community college, getting associate degrees, minimal debt,
    getting scholarships while they're working, continuing their
    higher education because they see the benefit of it, but they
    also have that experience.
        So here is young men and women getting exposed to that
    culture and excited about it, and industry is starting to get
    excited about it as well. So the more we can do to encourage,
    let our industry partners know that these young men and women
    can do this work, then we're going to have them lined up at the
    door. And we can meet that need. Thank you.
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Could I just add one other dimension to
    think about in this context? And that has to do with the
    rapidly changing landscape of the cybersecurity world. And so
    at a place like the National Science Foundation, it's very
    important for our research investments in such areas as access
    control and cyber physical systems and privacy and data
    analytics and so forth. All of that research is teaching us
    about this rapidly changing landscape.
        And it's important, I believe, in thinking about the
    curricula, the experiences that students get in their
    preparation for us to keep in mind that this is a dynamic field
    where we need to continually be updated, be offering internship
    and authentic experiences so students are working at the
    cutting edge as early on as they can in this domain, which is
    part of what makes it both exciting and challenging. It has to
    stay very current.
        Ms. Kelly. With the academy we have, the council actually--
    we have someone from the elementary level and the two-year and
    then four-year because that was--and then the industry people
    because the concern was getting the young people interested
    anyway, to whet their appetite, but then making sure the high
    school and the community colleges are teaching what needed to
    be taught.
        Did you have any ----
        Mr. Cambry. I'll just add in one last thing. Any time you
    have a little bit of success and one gets a job or an
    opportunity, it creates a ripple effect. Yesterday, I got word
    that one of our students, we--we partnered with an adult school
    in Compton, California. One of the students got their industry
    certification in cybersecurity, and they recently got a job
    at--offered a full-time job at Hewlett-Packard, and all of a
    sudden I get 50 emails today about folks who say, hey, what is
    it that your program does? And so I think those kind of small
    successes have a ripple effect, but you're starting to see
    people to say I can be successful in this space.
        Mr. Montgomery. One of the ----
        Mr. Hurd. Go ahead.
        Mr. Montgomery. Thank you. One of the things that I think
    Homeland and the Continuous Diagnostics and Mitigation program
    did well was it put together a framework for organizations to
    understand their cybersecurity posture, where their gaps were,
    and how to improve. One of the things that we could do
    similarly is to create this clearinghouse of these kinds of
    organizations and academies that have interns available, what
    their level of training is, what their level of certification
    is, where their location is in order to incent employers, both
    government and nongovernment, to have a place to go to fill
    this need even if it's with interns in temporary assignments
    because any work that they're doing is going to help the
    organization, as well as the candidate get some real-time
    hands-on experience.
        But that clearinghouse of these organizations like Mr.
    Cambry's, like Mr. Bowman's, I'm not aware of it. That would be
    ideal because then people can shop by their location, shop by
    their need, and help benefit the local community as well.
        Mr. Hurd. I am going to recognize myself for another five
    minutes.
        So I think, you know, here there is consensus that there is
    a need in the IT workforce for professionals who have received
    their skills through training, certificates, or a degree that
    is not a traditional four-year model. Is that consensus there?
    And, Dr. Ferrini-Mundy, the CyberCorps program can be used for
    those types of things, is that correct?
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Certainly. We--particularly in the
    capacity-building area, we can be funding the design of
    innovative curricular approaches, different durations of
    training, and particularly the connection to the two-year
    colleges.
        Mr. Hurd. Yes. But scholarships as well?
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Yes, scholarships also go to two-year
    college students.
        Mr. Hurd. Got you.
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Yes.
        Mr. Hurd. So what do we need to do to grow the program? And
    what do we need to do to grow the program? And just so I am
    clear, if I am a senior in high school, do I apply to OPM for
    this scholarship and then take it to a school or do I have to
    apply it to one of the 62 institutions for that specific
    program?
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Right. So you have to apply to one of
    the 62 institutions, and OPM does a very good job in
    publicizing these institutions and the program, so that's one
    thing.
        But your other question about what would it take to grow
    this program in our fiscal year 2017 request, we have indicated
    that we'd like to lay the groundwork with an increase for SFS
    alumni to be available over the course of their careers to help
    the Federal Government respond to cybersecurity challenges. So
    this is related to the reserve idea, to the cyber surge corps
    idea.
        But at the same time for us at the National Science
    Foundation, I believe we're beginning to think about this
    systemically. So we do have the SFS program with its
    scholarships, but I mentioned our INCLUDES program, our
    Advanced Technology Education program, the Computer Science for
    All initiative. And I think that that leads me to believe a
    more systemic look by us inside our agency at how we think
    about the pathways, at how we kind of build a context, connect
    to the research. That would help us address the challenges that
    we're trying to address in a more comprehensive way.
        Mr. Hurd. Good copy. Mr. Montgomery, your point about the
    draw of the private sector, now, the value in, you know, the
    CyberCorps or a National Guard is saying you are going to
    commit to the Federal Government for a length of time. If it is
    the length of time of what your scholarship is or we say it is
    four years or something, that is what gets someone into the
    ground floor at protecting digital infrastructure.
        And then if we add on top of that that there is
    participating entities or companies that are willing to help
    loan those folks back, you know, as their National Guard
    experience, how do we structure that in such a way that it is
    not disruptive to business operations?
        Mr. Montgomery. There's actually some great Federal
    examples of this kind of loaning program. There's a program in
    particular out of OSD called the Corporate Fellows Program
    where--and this is a little bit different. This isn't students
    necessarily, but the model could be very, very similar. An
    officer grade 6 is loaned out for a year. The government pays
    for the salary; the private company pays for all of the travel
    and expenses for the military officer. But they're embedded
    with the company for a year. And the thought is that they'll
    return to their rotation with cutting-edge management technique
    and experience with respect to what private industry is doing.
        I can see the same exact thing being--with respect to this
    National Guard of Cyber Warriors as well because the demands in
    both industry and the private sector is so intense. Getting
    someone loaned out for the course of a year, the only
    difference is the company themselves would pay for the
    privilege. But it could be that kind of fellows program where
    it is a rotation in, it's a rotation out. But I would urge you
    to investigate that program because those paperwork--that
    paperwork is already developed. We're already doing those kinds
    of things.
        Mr. Hurd. Yes, because the framework can be that you have
    these kids coming from high school and that they are going to
    school, whether it is, you know, four-year, two-year, or
    something else, but then the set of companies that want to see
    these Cyber National Guardsmen and women are also the ones
    providing internships during that educational process as well,
    right, in order to help hone that so when they finally finish
    whatever educational opportunities they are looking at.
        That is kind of, you know, the concept that I envision of
    this program to make sure that we ultimately are having a
    cross-pollination of skill sets between the public and the
    private sector. Is that crazy?
        Mr. Montgomery. Not at all. The number of occasions--when
    people think about cyber today, they think about a breach, but
    cyber is a 24-hour occupation. And the number of occasions
    where a private industry organization has a spike in demand for
    labor is routine. If you think about anyone with respect to the
    vertical markets like retail or banking, there are--it is
    cyclical. They have more demand at different times than they do
    at other times. And the ramp-up for a guard contingent would be
    an important bolster to their workforce.
        Also, with respect to Presidential Directive 41 where they
    established the guidelines for what happens in a government
    breach, the same thing can be said for the private sector as
    well. There is a criminal element that the FBI investigates.
    There is a hygiene element that Homeland is responsible for.
    And there is constant need for updates and hygiene and good
    best practices that this National Guard could take care of an
    ongoing basis that companies are struggling to find good supply
    for.
        Mr. Hurd. Got you. Dr. Ferrini-Mundy, what is the first
    step that an entity like the Alamo colleges need to do in order
    to be part of the 62 participating agencies in the CyberCorps?
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Well, I think that Mr. Bowman and I need
    to exchange business cards and talk about the various
    possibilities for getting to know the National Science
    Foundation and its ----
        Mr. Hurd. I think we can make that happen.
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Okay. It's starting already.
        Mr. Hurd. And then what about for an organization like
    BLUE1647 to participate in the Computer Science for All
    program?
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Same response. And we can point you to
    the programs that would be, I think, the best-suited to the
    particular organizations here.
        Mr. Hurd. Excellent.
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Very exciting. We're looking always to
    broaden involvement and to reach out more generally.
        Mr. Hurd. Great. I would now like to recognize for five
    minutes the gentleman from the Commonwealth of Virginia, Mr.
    Connolly.
        Mr. Connolly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And welcome to our
    panel.
        Gosh, there are so many facets of this subject. Let's start
    for a second with internships. I don't know if you know, Dr.
    Ferrini-Mundy, but when you compare the Federal Government's
    success with internships to the success in the private sector,
    you want to guess how well we do?
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. No, I'd prefer to have you explain. I
    don't--I'm not familiar with the ----
        Mr. Connolly. Anyone from the private sector want to take a
    guess at the rough percentage of interns who are eligible and
    hired for employment in terms of a successful internship? It is
    very high. It is, you know, well above 60 percent private
    sector. In some private sector companies it is like--well, I
    won't name one that hired my daughter--but it is in the 90
    percentile.
        We are in the single digits, Dr. Ferrini-Mundy in the
    Federal Government. It is a fiasco. There is no systematic
    mentoring. There is no systematic exposure to all aspects of an
    agency's mission or most of them. There is no morale booster.
    We actually have people who leave when they kind of talk in any
    kind of exit interview, if there is one, who say I would rather
    put my head through a pencil sharpener than ever work for the
    Federal Government again.
        We don't see it apparently as a tool for recruiting the
    next generation or motivating the next generation or tailoring
    the next generation, which the private sector systematically
    does. Otherwise, why have an internship program? Why not make
    it work for both sides? You try us out for size and we are
    trying you out, but we have done some screening and orientation
    so the probability of you sticking around with us is high. And
    our desire for making a permanent job offer is also high.
    Otherwise, it is very inefficient, and we are actually turning
    people off to our mission.
        I don't mean to suggest by saying this that you in any way,
    shape, or form have responsibility. I just point out it is a
    subject I looked into, and I was appalled at the data I found
    and what a complete opportunity cost our current internship
    efforts are in the Federal Government.
        And it is relevant to the topic at hand because we can't
    afford that, especially when it comes to the Federal IT issue
    and cyber in particular because our IT experts in the Federal
    Government are aging out. And if you looked at the average age
    of our counterpart in the private sector, it is much younger.
        So the private sector does not have a problem recruiting
    the next generation to handle the mission. We are. And the only
    choice we have, it seems to me, is to recruit a younger
    generation. Well, what are the tools at hand for doing that?
    And I worry about that. The pay gap is growing. The
    desirability of the workplace can be a challenge. I think it is
    very hard for a Federal recruiter to go to a university campus
    and say I see a 30-year Federal career in your future and you
    are going to love it.
        Now, partly, we are to blame. Congress has done a great job
    in making the Federal workplace a less desirable place in
    public imagination. We have disparaged the workforce, we have
    frozen salaries, we have cut benefits. None of that brings any
    glory on us, and I think frankly was designed in some cases to
    do just that, make it less desirable as a career choice.
        But we can't afford to continue to do that, certainly not
    in the sphere that the chairman and ranking member here are
    exploring because IT is just too important. Security is
    involved, national security is involved, privacy is involved.
    And so I think this is a critical topic, and I think there are
    things we can do to make it easier on ourselves to do that
    recruiting and to make it more attractive, internship programs
    being one of them. That is not rocket science. And the private
    sector has lots of models that are profoundly successful that
    we could emulate or learn from or benchmark against if we would
    only try.
        But longer term, we are going to have to suspend some
    normal civil service workplace protections if we are going to
    have fellows who go in and out of the government. That is not
    so easy. That is really not so easy. I wish it were, so we are
    going to have to be less rule-driven if we are going to do that
    while still protecting everybody involved. We are going to have
    to look at more flexibility, obviously, in pay scales. If we
    are not willing to do that, we will never attract a talent
    comparable to that we face in the private sector.
        So I think there are lots of issues here for us to continue
    to explore. I thank you so much for having this hearing because
    I think this is a critical piece of what we are trying to do in
    IT modernization and upgrading the Federal Government.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Hurd. Amen, brother.
        Last round of questions from me and then we will wrap it
    up. And, Dr. Ferrini-Mundy, are the folks that are
    participating in the CyberCorps, are they staying around in the
    Federal Government? You gave some stats at the very beginning.
    Can you characterize that for me?
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Well, I would like to first just mention
    briefly how excited they are as they enter the Federal
    Government, and so although the incentive of a scholarship is
    powerful and the payback requirement is definitely there, this
    jobs fair that we do in conjunction with OPM every January
    attracts 100 Federal agencies, and students are hired on the
    spot and do their security clearances while they're ----
        Mr. Hurd. And this is a jobs fair for ----
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. For the SFS graduates.
        Mr. Hurd. Okay.
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. So we know that they're welcomed into
    the Federal Government with--warmly, and the data that we have
    indicates that about 70 percent stay beyond their service
    requirement. So we are again tracking to see how long they stay
    and what they do, but their entry is very quick and smooth and
    they're quite in demand.
        Mr. Hurd. And how does--I don't know if it is NSF or OPM.
    How do they prioritize which agencies are in need of these
    potential SFS or is it this--it is a free-for-all and you come
    to this job fair and that is how you do it?
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. I think I--it's my understanding that
    there is no prioritization particularly, but the agencies show
    up, they make themselves available, they talk with students.
    And we'd love to invite the members of the subcommittee to join
    us next year when we go through it. It's quite fascinating.
        But, as I understand it, there's no ----
        Mr. Hurd. Yes.
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. It's an open discussion.
        Mr. Hurd. Please do. And in my remaining three minutes and
    18 seconds, I want to go down the line. And, Mr. Cambry, I want
    to start with you. This notion of a Cyber National Guard, I
    think you are attracting people in from areas that may not be
    exposed to this. We can expose them to, you know, the
    CyberCorps program. We can expose them to institute like the
    Alamo Academies, equivalents in your neck of the words. And
    then we have companies like Intel that are interested in hiring
    them.
        What do you see is kind of the next step in trying to
    achieve that vision? And that is really--my question down the
    line--and, Mr. Cambry, you are going to have the last word.
        Mr. Cambry. For us, it always has been can we change the
    narrative so people can see themselves being successful in
    these positions? So that's kind of the standpoint we took since
    we first started.
        Now, our standpoint is to also convince the employers that
    there is some value to investing in these folks from the
    community and other nontraditional settings. We've also been
    able to partner with colleges, community colleges, and a whole
    host of other people as part of this ecosystem of kind of
    support.
        What that next step for us has always been, partnering with
    organizations that either do the placement or that have those
    direct connections to those employers because, once again, the
    more that we can focus on our students and our constituent base
    and not as much on trying to find the perfect match with the
    employers, it makes our job easier because then we can push
    harder downstream and really start cultivating that level of
    talent and really focus even more on our curriculum, placement,
    and being able to do the testing necessary to make sure they're
    ready.
        Mr. Hurd. Thank you. And thank you for being here. And
    everybody, the remaining--you have got 30 seconds to answer
    that question. Mr. Bowman, you are recognized for 30 seconds.
        Mr. Bowman. Chairman Hurd, thanks again for the
    opportunity. So it's real simple. Companies that are willing to
    invest in an intern get to indoctrinate this young man and
    woman to their culture. And what they're finding is the
    retention is off the charts. Sometimes it's the first paycheck
    that these young men and women have received, so they're
    bleeding that company's blood, that color, forever. Their
    loyalty is off the charts. So if you invest in it, you get a
    positive return on investment.
        Businesses will not be participating in a program like the
    Alamo Academies going into their 16th year if there was not a
    positive return on investment. And internships is that secret
    ingredient to getting these young men and women exposed just
    like yourself when you had yours at Southwest Research and here
    you are today. And that's a pathway to success, so I'm very
    much for it.
        Thank you for the opportunity.
        Mr. Hurd. Thanks for being here. Mr. Montgomery?
        Mr. Montgomery. I think demand is so intense that
    organizations will take a flyer. What I'd love to see is focus
    on a clearinghouse where the kids are made available to
    potential employers because they'll come. They'll absolutely
    come.
        Mr. Hurd. Absolutely. Dr. Ferrini-Mundy, take us out.
        Ms. Ferrini-Mundy. Thank you so much, Chairman Hurd,
    Congresswoman Kelly. This has been wonderful and exciting to
    talk about this topic. Two points that I'd like to leave us
    with, one is the critical importance of developing and seeking
    talent broadly across all groups from this country that have
    been underrepresented in the STEM fields, in the IT fields, and
    in the cybersecurity fields. We need the diversity of this
    nation to be brought to bear on these challenges.
        And second point is that through public-private
    collaboration, the government and the private sector can work
    together to understand the changing needs in this domain and
    the kinds of experiences, certifications, assessments, ability
    to be certain that people are ready to step in as needed over
    the course of their career in and out of government so that we
    are taking the very best talent and helping them learn and grow
    throughout their careers.
        Mr. Hurd. I would like to thank our witnesses for taking
    the time to appear before us today. What you guys do is
    important to educating our kids and the future of our country,
    so thank you for that.
        And if there is no further business, without objection, the
    subcommittee stands adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 4:31 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

                                    APPENDIX

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