[House Hearing, 114 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
PLANNED PARENTHOOD'S TAXPAYER FUNDING
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
SEPTEMBER 29, 2015
__________
Serial No. 114-153
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
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Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov
http://www.house.gov/reform
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COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah, Chairman
JOHN L. MICA, Florida ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland,
MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio Ranking Minority Member
JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York
JIM JORDAN, Ohio ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of
TIM WALBERG, Michigan Columbia
JUSTIN AMASH, Michigan WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri
PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee JIM COOPER, Tennessee
TREY GOWDY, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas MATT CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania
CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina BRENDA L. LAWRENCE, Michigan
RON DeSANTIS, Florida TED LIEU, California
MICK MULVANEY, South Carolina BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN, New Jersey
KEN BUCK, Colorado STACEY E. PLASKETT, Virgin Islands
MARK WALKER, North Carolina MARK DeSAULNIER, California
ROD BLUM, Iowa BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
JODY B. HICE, Georgia PETER WELCH, Vermont
STEVE RUSSELL, Oklahoma MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM, New Mexico
EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia
GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin
WILL HURD, Texas
GARY J. PALMER, Alabama
Sean McLaughlin, Staff Director
Andrew Dockham, General Counsel
Sean Hayes, Healthcare, Benefits and Administrative Rules Subcommittee
Staff Director
Sharon Casey, Deputy Chief Clerk
David Rapallo, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on September 29, 2015............................... 1
WITNESSES
Ms. Cecile Richards, President, Planned Parenthood Federation of
America
Oral Statement............................................... 9
Written Statement............................................ 12
APPENDIX
Representative Gerald E. Connolly Statement...................... 108
July 27, 2015 Organizations to Congress Supporting Planned
Parenthood submitted by Ms. Duckworth.......................... 110
Aug 3, 2015 Latino Organizations to Congress Supporting Planned
Parenthood submitted by Ms. Lawrence........................... 114
Aug 25, 2015 GPS Fusion Analysis Center for Medical Progress
Videos submitted by Ms. Watson Coleman......................... 116
Sept 28, 2015 Coalfire Digital Forensics Analysis Report
submitted by Mr Chaffetz....................................... 126
Sept 21, 2015 Committee Democrats to JEC - Planned Parenthood GOP
politics submitted by Mr. Cummings............................. 140
PLANNED PARENTHOOD'S TAXPAYER FUNDING
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Tuesday, September 29, 2015
House of Representatives,
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform,
Washington, D.C.
The committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:03 a.m., in Room
2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Jason Chaffetz
[chairman of the committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Chaffetz, Mica, Turner, Duncan,
Jordan, Walberg, Amash, Gosar, DesJarlais, Gowdy, Farenthold,
Lummis, Massie, Meadows, DeSantis, Mulvaney, Buck, Walker,
Blum, Hice, Russell, Carter, Grothman, Hurd, Palmer, Cummings,
Maloney, Norton, Clay, Lynch, Cooper, Connolly, Cartwright,
Duckworth, Lawrence, Lieu, Watson Coleman, Plaskett,
DeSaulnier, Boyle, Welch, and Lujan Grisham.
Also Present: Representatives Black, Love, Jackson Lee, and
Adams.
Chairman Chaffetz. The Committee on Oversight and
Government Reform will come to order.
Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a
recess at any time.
The chairman is responsible under the rules of the House
and the rules of the committee to maintain order and preserve
decorum in the committee room. Members of the audience are
reminded that disruption of congressional business is a
violation of law and a criminal offense. We welcome your
presence, but we will not tolerate disruption. We hope to have
a good, lively debate. This is what Congress is intended to do,
and we need everybody in this room--we need everybody's
participation along the way.
This is an important topic. At the risk of getting a little
personal, my wife Julie and I have been married some 24 years.
We have our 25th wedding anniversary coming up in February. I'm
proud of my wife. She got her degree in psychology later in
life after helping to raise three kids. Some are still at home.
She has started to work for a plastic surgeon. This plastic
surgeon is involved in helping women who are having to have
their breasts removed, and my wife spends her day helping these
women. And I'm proud of her for doing that.
My mother, she passed away when I was 28 years old. She
fought cancer for more than 10 years. She had breast cancer.
And I miss her. I lost my father to cancer, as well.
Cancer in this country kills about 1,500 people a day--a
day. And yet our Federal Government only spends about $5
billion to fight it. If they were shooting 1,500 people a day,
if there were rockets coming in, we'd be fighting this with
everything we've got.
And as I said before I came to Congress and I'm saying here
today, as fiscally conservative as I can possibly be, we don't
spend enough on cancer. We don't spend enough. We need to spend
more. I would quadruple the amount of money, if I had my
chance, to fight cancer and win.
And the reason I'm passionate about the hearing today is
we've got a lot of healthcare providers who I think in their
hearts know that they're trying to provide good, but the
question before us is, does this organization, does Planned
Parenthood really need Federal subsidy? Does it need Federal
dollars?
Every time we spend a Federal dollar, what we're doing is
we're pulling money out of somebody's pocket and we're giving
it to somebody else. What I don't like, what I don't want to
tolerate, what I don't want to become numb to is wasting those
taxpayer dollars. And, as best I can tell--we're going to have
a hearing here--this is an organization that doesn't need
Federal subsidy.
For the year ended June 14--June of 2014, I should say,
Planned Parenthood reported $127 million in revenue over
expenses. They had $127 million more in revenue than they had
in expenses. Yet, between 2005 and 2013, in large part under
Ms. Richards' leadership, there's a 53-percent reduction in
cancer screenings, a 42-percent reduction in breast exams and
breast care. I don't understand why. I don't understand why.
Let me give you a sense of the numbers that we're talking
about here. Government dollars from taxpayers going to Planned
Parenthood is roughly $528 million. $450 million of that comes
in Federal funds. Roughly $390 million comes in the form of
Medicaid.
There's going to be a lot of bluster today about shutting
down the government over Planned Parenthood. The funding amount
that we're talking about under Title X is $60 million.
Remember, I just told you that, last year--last year, they had
more than $100 million in revenue without expenses. And we're
talking about $60 million, roughly 4.6 of their total revenue.
Planned Parenthood is an organization with massive
salaries. Ms. Richards makes nearly $600,000 a year. The
affiliate--the person that runs the affiliate in Minnesota,
North Dakota, and South Dakota makes roughly $450,000 a year.
And I could be here for a long time listing out some very
exorbitant salaries.
This is also an organization that seems to have exorbitant
travel expenses. 2013, they spent more than $5 million in
travel--first-class tickets, private chartered aircraft.
Roughly, they're spending $14,000 a day on travel. That's a
lot. That's money that isn't going to women's health care.
In 2012 and 2013, they spent roughly $600,000 on blowout
parties--chocolate and champagne events, and Salt-N-Pepa came
and performed a concert, and all kinds of celebrities and other
hoopla. These are things they lost money doing, according to
their tax record.
In the past 3 years, they've spent more than $67 million on
fundraising. They're pretty good at it. That's partly my point.
They're pretty good at fundraising. They don't necessarily need
taxpayer dollars to go pay for it.
And this part I really hope we do have a deeper discussion
about. We may not learn everything that we need to, but, over
the past 5 years, more than $22 million has been transferred
from their 501(c)(3) to 501(c)(4) organizations as well as
PACs. This is advocacy, it's lobbying, it's ``get out the
vote.'' And, in one case in Alaska, it was about redistricting.
Ladies and gentlemen, that has absolutely nothing to do
with providing health care to young women who need a breast
exam or need to get a mammogram. None of that money goes to
that. It's a political activity. I was, I guess, naive but
surprised that you could take 501(c)(3) money and simply give
it to the 501(c)(4).
Shared employees. If you look at Planned Parenthood and the
other organizations underneath it, you're going to find shared
employees, shared facilities, mailing lists, shared assets.
It's a political organization. And that's something that needs
to be ferreted out.
Then when you start saying, ``Oh, they have to have Federal
money, they have to have Federal money,'' over the past 5
years, they've spent more than $32 million sending money
overseas. It didn't even come to the United States of America.
It didn't affect people in low-income situations. They're so
flush with cash, they started sending and giving out money
overseas. I don't understand that. We have USAID, we have the
State Department, we have all kinds of foreign aid. We don't
need Planned Parenthood foreign aid. But that's what we got.
And their desire for more of taxpayer dollars is just
sensational.
There are going to be some discussions today, I'm sure,
about the video, or videos. Let me just explain that. I know
I've gone over time, but we're going to have to address it one
way or the other, so let me address it.
I think it was legitimate to look at all of the videos--all
of the videos. So we issued a subpoena to get all of the
videos.
Now, in California, there's a court case where there is a
temporary restraining order that doesn't allow the producers of
these videos to release them publicly. So we actually sent a
letter asking for the videos.
Democrats, I think the record will reflect, didn't want us
to ask for the videos. They wanted to take that language out.
Nevertheless, we moved forward and actually went to the
extraordinary step of subpoenaing--something, I think, that
actually both sides of the aisle should support. If you want
the totality of the record, let's send a subpoena for all the
videos.
Now, with the temporary restraining order in place, there
is conflict between the legislative branch and the judicial
branch. And so what we're seeing here is they, on one hand,
have a restraining order, can't send the videos; on the other,
they have a duly issued subpoenaed from the United States
Congress. That is going to have to work itself out.
There has been discussion about the producer of this video
coming and testifying before Congress. I don't know which
direction we're going to go to that. The first step, though, is
seeing all the videos--all the videos.
Democrats have said, well, they've been doctored, they've
been edited, even though they haven't even necessarily seen
them. And then they have videos that they want to show that
show that. Well, the reason that they're out there is that
they're publicly available.
So there is more to this story, there is more that needs to
come out. But that's going to have to play itself out.
The prime thrust of this hearing today is about the
finances. We were very clear and blunt in our--in what we were
talking about in terms of what we're trying to accomplish here
today. I have great latitude to members; they can ask what they
want to ask. But the focus of what we're doing today is how
this organization is funded and how they spend their money. If
they're going to accept taxpayer dollars, they're going to have
to withstand the scrutiny of Congress asking tough questions
about how they spend that money. And that's the direction that
I'm coming from today.
And if there is more clarification needed, please let me
know, but we will now recognize the ranking member, Mr.
Cummings.
Mr. Cummings. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
And let me be clear from the very beginning, we have asked
for all of the tapes, Mr. Chairman, and we wanted all of it,
everything. And we would, of course, welcome a subpoena for
everything, because we think that that goes to the integrity of
this committee and it goes to the integrity of this Congress.
Today's hearing is very important. It will reveal whether
this committee is more interested in facts or fiction. The
questions members pose will show whether they are engaged in an
evenhanded search for the truth or a partisan attack based on
ideology. The way we conduct ourselves will demonstrate whether
this committee is seeking integrity in our investigation or is
being usurped by the most extreme forces of partisan warfare.
Let's look at the facts. David Daleiden and his group
engaged in a 3-year campaign of deceit against Planned
Parenthood. They set up fake companies, created fake
identities, repeatedly lied about who they were, and secretly
recorded Planned Parenthood employees without their knowledge
or consent. These are facts that Mr. Daleiden admitted to. He
admitted to this.
Mr. Daleiden's goal for the past 3 years was to entrap
Planned Parenthood into selling fetal tissue for profit--
selling it for profit. He deceived, misled, and essentially
conned Planned Parenthood employees to try to achieve his goal.
He gave them illegal contract proposals, he offered them huge
sums of money, and he pursued them relentlessly. Some would say
he was obsessed.
Despite his best efforts, Mr. Daleiden failed. There's no
credible evidence before this committee that any Planned
Parenthood employee agreed to any proposal to sell fetal tissue
or for profit in violation of the law.
Republicans keep making this claim over and over again, but
that does not make it true.
When Mr. Daleiden was faced with the failure of his 3-year
effort, he did not relent. Instead, he took the video footage
he had, manipulated it, and put it out to the public. He
removed every single time Planned Parenthood employees rejected
his offers. He edited out all of this exculpatory evidence, and
he twisted what was left to distort the truth. Something is
awfully wrong with that picture.
Last week, all the committee members on this side of the
aisle asked for Mr. Daleiden to testify here today. Since his
video is at the fundamental basis of this committee's
investigation, we wanted to ask questions about his tactics and
his evidence. That's only fair. But Republicans refused. They
did not want him to testify. They don't want to subject him to
the difficult or uncomfortable questions that relate to the
actual facts.
But the facts are, indeed, critical. And here are some of
the key facts we now know.
Federal law authorizes fetal tissue research, and it
expressly allows for recouping reasonable costs. That's a fact.
That law was passed by Congress with strong bipartisan support
based on the work of President Ronald Reagan's blue-ribbon
panel on fetal tissue research in 1988.
This is also a fact. Planned Parenthood receives no Federal
funding for fetal tissue donation programs, and only 1 percent
of Planned Parenthood's health centers even participate in
these programs. Those are facts.
Unfortunately, I suspect these facts will have little
impact on the Republican talking points, and they will just
keep accusing Planned Parenthood of selling fetal tissue for
profit.
Today's hearing is supposed to be about Federal funding, so
let me highlight one more fact. Republicans have been saying
that Planned Parenthood receives a half a billion dollars in
taxpayer funds. They make it sound as if the Federal Government
writes a check to Planned Parenthood each year. But the vast
majority of that funding, approximately $400 million, comes
from reimbursements from individual health services under
Medicaid.
Medicaid provides healthcare services for people who are
poor, elderly, and have disabilities. In my home State of
Maryland, banning funds for Planned Parenthood would have a
negative and disproportionate impact on poor women, who rely on
Planned Parenthood for a host of healthcare services, including
pap tests, breast exams, and cancer screenings.
And, Mr. Chairman, as I listen to you talk about cancer and
breast cancer, I agree with you; we need every dollar we can
get for research with regard to these diseases. As you know, on
Friday I'll be funeralizing my mother-in-law, who was very dear
to me, who died from breast cancer less than a week ago. So I
understand what you're talking about. I get it.
And a lot of people who need these services are like--are
the people who live in our districts, and they live in areas
where they do not have these services. And I'm sure Ms.
Richards will testify with regard to that. And so, for many
poor women, Planned Parenthood may be one of their only sources
of medical care in underserved or rural communities.
That brings us to the big question for my Republican
colleagues: Do you really want to do this? Do you really? Do
you want to align yourselves with the radical extremists who
manipulate the facts? And, most importantly, do you want to
attack millions of women who have a constitutional right,
affirmed by the Supreme Court of the United States of America,
to make their own healthcare decisions with the advice of their
doctors?
Based on the evidence of last week, it appears that you do.
You threatened to shut down the government. You ousted your
Speaker. And now you want to set up yet another select
committee to investigate. It looks like you have made your
choice.
Unfortunately, I think your actions will result in even
more chaos and discord in this Congress, which is exactly what
the American people don't want. They do not want the discord.
Ms. Richards, I want to thank you very much for being here
today to give us the facts. Your group has been extremely
helpful during this investigation, providing tens of thousands
of pages of documents. Your cooperation stands in stark
contrast to Mr. Daleiden, whose notable absence speaks volumes.
And, with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Chaffetz. We have agreed to allow the subcommittee
chairmen to also make opening statements. So we'll now
recognize the chairman of the Subcommittee on Health Care,
Benefits, and Administrative Rules, Mr. Jordan of Ohio, for his
opening statement.
Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for this
hearing, and thank you for your heartfelt remarks in your
opening statement.
Here's the troubling truth: A picture is worth a thousand
words. You can say all you want that these things were heavily
edited, they were changed, but if that's the case, why did Ms.
Richards apologize for the videos 2 days after they first
surfaced?
Everyone knows these videos are, as the Speaker of the
House said, barbaric and repulsive. And this argument, this
argument that we keep hearing from the other side,
``Republicans want to shut down the government,'' are you
kidding me? We want to fund the government at the levels
everyone agreed to, the Ryan-Murray budget, the levels the--the
levels the President agreed to.
We simply want to shift the money from an organization
caught doing what they were caught doing and give it to the
community health centers; shift it from the 700 Planned
Parenthood clinics, give it to the 13,000 federally approved
community health centers; take the money from the guys doing
the bad things and give it to the ones who aren't; take the
dollars from one private company doing what the Speaker said,
barbaric things, and give it to federally approved community
health centers.
Now, if the Democrats insist that, in spite of all that,
this organization should still get your tax dollars and that
that somehow is more important than funding our troops, our
veterans, and, frankly, women's health issues and some of the
things the chairman talked about in health care, if that's
their position, then they can go defend that position.
So let's just be honest here. This is what this--what this
is really all about, plain and simple: money and politics.
Here's how it works. Politicians give money to Planned
Parenthood, who give it back to politicians at election time
who get elected and give it back to Planned Parenthood, who
give it back to politicians who get elected, and the game plays
on.
In 2012, in that election cycle, Planned Parenthood spent
almost $12 million in advertising. Fact: $11,874,052, 100
percent of that went to Democrats. Every penny--every single
penny went to Democrats. No wonder they're defending this
repulsive game. Politicians give money to Planned Parenthood,
they give it back to politicians, and it keeps on going.
The nice thing about these videos, it's lifted the curtain.
We can now see what's going on there. And that's why we should
fund the government and shift the money from this organization
to organizations who didn't do this kind of behavior.
And, with that, I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
We'll now recognize Ms. Maloney of New York for her opening
statement.
Mrs. Maloney. Well, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And welcome, Ms. Richards.
Last week, the Democratic members of this committee sent a
letter warning our chairman that the relentless campaign by the
conservative House Freedom Caucus to attack Planned Parenthood
was in fact part of a broader power struggle to unseat Speaker
Boehner led by an extreme wing of the Republican Party that is
using this issue to force a government shutdown unless the
Speaker bows to their demands.
Our warnings proved prescient. On Friday, Speaker Boehner
announced that he will resign at the end of next month, but not
before creating a new select committee to investigate Planned
Parenthood.
Make no mistake, despite what we hear from the other side,
Republicans are doubling down on their war against women.
I request unanimous consent to place in the record this
letter from the Republicans threatening to close down the
government unless Planned Parenthood is defunded. And there
is----
Chairman Chaffetz. Without objection, so ordered.
Mrs. Maloney. And when you read this, there are certain
things that jump out. All of the signatories are men, none of
whom will get pregnant or need a cervical screening for cancer
or a mammogram or a pap smear or other lifesaving services that
are provided by Planned Parenthood.
We will hear today lots of arguments to justify the extreme
actions of the Center for Medical Progress, those who created
these videotapes, but there is one simple reason we are at this
point: Republicans want to outlaw a woman's right to choose.
Republicans say that this is all about videos purporting to
show violations of our laws, but when the facts come out that
contradict their narrative and it comes to light, it never
seems to matter.
For example, when we learned that the videos had dozens of
unexplained edits removing phrases like, quote, ``We do not
profit from tissue donation,'' from those who work for Planned
Parenthood, that did not matter.
When we learned that less than 1 percent of Planned
Parenthood centers had any involvement whatsoever in fetal
tissue donation, that did not matter.
When we learned that some Planned Parenthood centers
involved in tissue donation took the extra precaution of
accepting no reimbursement for their costs, far beyond what is
even required by Federal law, that did not matter.
When we learned that Planned Parenthood centers that
lawfully accepted reimbursement recouped only their costs and
repeatedly refused offers from anti-abortion extremists to
entrap them into accepting far larger amounts, even in one case
10 times more, Republicans still insisted they were trying to
profit from these donations.
The righteous rhetoric we've heard for weeks about Planned
Parenthood trafficking in baby parts has one fundamental law:
It is not true, and it never has been true. But it makes for
great sound bite.
The reason the facts don't matter is that this whole
episode is not about tissue donation or the Hyde Amendment or
Medicaid reimbursement. The core issue is that Republican
Members of Congress now almost universally oppose a woman's
right to choose. They oppose the constitutional right of
abortion.
An increasing number, like Senator Marco Rubio, support
banning abortion with no exceptions, none whatsoever, not even
in cases of rape, incest, or when the life of the mother is
threatened.
The majority of Americans disagree with these extreme
views, and we will do everything we can to stop them. Because
if we don't, there will be serious consequences for women
across this country that rely on the services--lifesaving
services. It is their choice, of over 2.7 million women, to
have their basic healthcare services provided by Planned
Parenthood.
In 103 counties with a Planned Parenthood health center,
Planned Parenthood serves all of the women obtaining publicly
supported contraceptive services. There aren't any community
health centers that can step in to fill the void. If we don't
continue this lifesaving service, women will be denied health
care across this great Nation.
This continued assault on constitutionally protected
reproductive freedom is based on outright falsehoods and lies,
backed up by fraudulent recordings selectively edited by
radical anti-choice activists.
And if they have their way, over 630,000 patients will lose
access to birth control, STD screenings, and other reproductive
health care, mammograms, cervical cancer screenings.
We need to recognize this fight for what it is: It's about
banning a woman's right to choose. And it is being driven by
politicians, most of whom are men, who think they have the
right to dictate to women about their most private healthcare
decisions.
And I might add that Planned Parenthood polls four times
stronger than Congress. And I might add that we should be
investigating this group that did fraudulent, edited tapes and
not a distinguished healthcare-providing, health--lifesaving
group that is across this Nation saving lives and providing
basic reproductive health care to American women, many of whom
are very poor and many of whom are very vulnerable.
So I want to publicly thank Planned Parenthood. One in five
women in America have gone to Planned Parenthood for services,
including myself, at times in their life when they needed it.
And I want to thank you for the work that you are doing to
provide basic healthcare, reproductive healthcare services to
American women and men.
Chairman Chaffetz. I will hold the record open for 5
legislative days for any members who would like to submit a
written statement.
Chairman Chaffetz. We've had wide interest from a number of
our colleagues and from broader House membership. I'd ask
unanimous consent that the Congresswoman Ms. McMorris Rodgers
of Washington, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas,
Congresswoman Black of Tennessee, and Congresswoman Love of
Utah be allowed to fully participate in today's hearing.
If there are additional Democrats that would like to
participate, I'd be happy to waive them in, as well, to have an
even balance.
Without objection, so ordered.
We'll now recognize our witness. Please welcome Ms. Cecile
Richards, president of Planned Parenthood Federation of
America.
Ms. Richards, pursuant to committee rules, all witnesses
will be sworn in before they testify. If you will please rise
and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're
about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
Thank you.
Let the record reflect that the witness answered in the
affirmative.
In order to allow time for discussion, we would appreciate
if you would limit your testimony to 5 minutes. And, obviously,
your entire written statement will be made part of the record.
Ms. Richards, you're now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF CECILE RICHARDS, PRESIDENT, PLANNED PARENTHOOD
FEDERATION OF AMERICA
Ms. Richards. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I'm proud to be here today speaking on behalf of Planned
Parenthood, a leading provider of high-quality reproductive
health care in America. One in five women in this country has
sought care from a Planned Parenthood health center, and they
trust us because our rigorous healthcare standards have been
developed with the Nation's top medical experts over our 99-
year history.
There has been a great deal of misinformation circulated
about Planned Parenthood recently, and I want to be absolutely
clear at the outset: The Federal funding that Planned
Parenthood receives allows our doctors and clinicians at our
health centers to provide birth control, cancer screenings, and
testing and treatment for sexually transmitted infections. Now,
while the Federal policy, in my opinion, discriminates against
low-income women, no Federal funds pay for abortion services at
Planned Parenthood or anywhere else, except in the very limited
circumstances allowed by law. These are when the woman has been
raped, has been the victim of incest, or when her life is
endangered.
Planned Parenthood operates just like all other health
centers and hospitals that provide medical care to Medicaid
patients. Medicaid reimburses us for the preventive health
services that we provide, and the Department of Health and
Human Services conducts routine audits of the Medicaid program
to ensure that these funds are used appropriately. And the same
is true for the Title X, the Federal Family Planning Program,
which was signed into law by President Richard Nixon.
Planned Parenthood has been in the news recently because of
deceptively edited videos released by a group that is dedicated
to making abortion illegal in this country. And this is just
the most recent in a long line of discredited attacks, the
tenth over the last 15 years.
The latest smear campaign is based on efforts by our
opponents to entrap our doctors and clinicians into breaking
the law. And, once again, our opponents failed.
To set the record straight, I want to be clear on four
matters.
First, using fetal tissue in lifesaving medical research is
legal according to the 1993 law passed by the Senate 93 to 4
and based on recommendations from a blue-ribbon panel that was
created under the Reagan administration.
Second, currently less than 1 percent of Planned Parenthood
health centers are actually facilitating the donation of tissue
for fetal tissue research.
Third, in those health centers, donating fetal tissue is
something that many of our patients want to do and regularly
request.
And, finally, Planned Parenthood policies not only comply
with but, indeed, go beyond the requirements of the law.
The outrageous accusations leveled against Planned
Parenthood based on heavily doctored videos are offensive and
categorically untrue. I realize, though, that the facts have
never gotten in the way of these campaigns to block women from
health care they need and deserve.
And, Mr. Chairman, you and I do disagree about whether
women should have access to safe and legal abortion. At Planned
Parenthood, we believe that women should be able to make their
own decisions about their pregnancies and their futures. And
the majority of Americans agree. We trust women to make these
decisions in consultation with their families, their doctors,
and their faith, and not by Congress.
It is unacceptable that in the 21st century women in
America are routinely harassed for accessing a legal medical
procedure. Doctors who provide abortion, as well as their
families, often face harassment and threats of violence, and
after this recent smear campaign, it's only gotten worse. These
acts against women and healthcare providers don't reflect
American values or the rule of law, and I hope this committee
will condemn them.
For 99 years, Planned Parenthood has worked to improve the
lives of women and families in America. And, largely, as a
result of access to birth control, women are now nearly half
the workforce in America and more than half of college
students. And as a result of better sex education and more
access to birth control, we are now at a 40-year low for teen
pregnancy in the United States.
But for all the progress we've made, there is much still to
do. For many American women, Planned Parenthood is the only
healthcare provider they will see this year. And it is
impossible for our patients to understand why Congress is once
again threatening their ability to go to the healthcare
provider of their choice.
Two weeks ago, I was in Plano, Texas, with one of these
patients, Dayna Farris-Fisher. And Dayna can't be here today
because she has a new job and she's supporting her family, but
if she were here, Dayna would tell you what she told me: that
Planned Parenthood saved her life.
In 2013, her husband lost his job and, therefore, their
health insurance, and not long after, Dayna found a lump in her
breast. And the only two clinics that would take a patient
without health insurance couldn't see her for at least 2
months. So Dayna came to Planned Parenthood for a breast exam.
And there, our clinician of 21 years, Vivian, guided her
through the process of followups and referrals and helped make
sure that her treatment was covered. And she called Dayna
repeatedly to check on her as she entered treatment. And I am
really happy to say today that Dayna is now cancer-free.
Mr. Chairman, I wish this Congress would spend more time
hearing from women like Dayna. All women in this country
deserve to have the same opportunities as Members of Congress
and their families for high-quality and timely health care. And
so I want to thank you to be here today and the opportunity to
testify on behalf of Dayna and the 2.7 million patients who
rely on Planned Parenthood for high-quality, essential health
care every year.
Thank you.
[Prepared statement of Ms. Richards follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Chaffetz. Thank you.
I'll now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
Ms. Richards, Planned Parenthood has sent 32-plus-million
dollars in grants overseas. Does any of these funds go to the
Democratic Republic of the Congo?
Ms. Richards. Congressman, let me tell you----
Chairman Chaffetz. No, no, no, no. We don't have time for a
big narrative. I just want to know----
Ms. Richards. I'm not going to give you--you asked me----
Chairman Chaffetz. --yes or no.
Ms. Richards. You asked me a question.
Any of the money that Planned Parenthood raises and is
given by foundations and individuals to support family planning
services around the country is in Africa and in Latin America,
and they go to individual organizations. I'm happy to provide
you a list of those organizations, but I did not bring them
with me today.
Chairman Chaffetz. If you could give us a list of those
organizations.
Does Planned Parenthood have any ownership in foreign--a
foreign company?
Ms. Richards. I don't believe so. I don't know what you
mean by ``ownership.'' We have----
Chairman Chaffetz. Well, in your 2013 tax return, it lists
$3.3 million marked as, quote, ``investment,'' end quote, in
Central America and the Caribbean. I'm just asking if that
investment was an actual investment.
Ms. Richards. We don't own anything in those countries.
What our----
Chairman Chaffetz. Okay. Let me keep going.
Ms. Richards. Our global----
Chairman Chaffetz. I have to keep going. I need to get a--I
would appreciate a list. And you've been very cooperative so
far. Give us a list----
Ms. Richards. We have been extremely cooperative.
Chairman Chaffetz. Yeah, and I just cited that. If you can
give us a listing, as you said you would, of where those
dollars go overseas, we would very much appreciate it.
Your compensation in 2009 was $353,000; is that correct?
Ms. Richards. I don't have the figures with me, but I'm--I
don't want to----
Chairman Chaffetz. It was. Congratulations.
In 2013, your compensation went up some $240,000. Your
compensation, we're showing and based on your tax returns, is
$590,000, correct?
Ms. Richards. That's not my annual compensation. Actually,
my annual compensation is $520,000 a year. I believe there was
a retirement--there was a program that the board sort of put
together for a 3-year----
Chairman Chaffetz. Okay.
Ms. Richards. I'm happy--again, I think we've been
extremely forthcoming with all of our documents, so----
Chairman Chaffetz. Let me go to the next one.
Mrs. Maloney. Will the chairman yield?
Chairman Chaffetz. No, I won't.
Planned Parenthood and its lobbying arm, Planned Parenthood
Action Fund, control two 527 organizations that have their own
political activities, Planned Parenthood Votes and Planned
Parenthood Action Fund PAC.
Do they receive money from Planned Parenthood to conduct
these activities?
Ms. Richards. The Planned Parenthood Action Fund is a
totally separate corporation, receives no Federal dollars
whatsoever.
Chairman Chaffetz. What about the management? Who manages
it? Do you manage it?
Ms. Richards. It's managed by a team of people who are
employed by the Planned Parenthood Action Fund.
Chairman Chaffetz. Are you one of those that helps manage
it?
Ms. Richards. I don't directly manage it, no, sir.
Chairman Chaffetz. Do you help manage it?
Ms. Richards. Some of my time is allocated to it, but I do
not oversee the--I oversee----
Chairman Chaffetz. In 2013, you were listed as a shared
employee. In fact, you were compensated with $31,000 to help
run that organization, correct?
Ms. Richards. You asked me--excuse me, sir, but you asked
me if I ran the organization. Some of my time----
Chairman Chaffetz. Or do you help run it?
Ms. Richards. Some of my time is allocated to the Planned
Parenthood Action Fund, which is required by law, and we meet
all of the legal requirements.
Chairman Chaffetz. And so you also are involved in the
Planned Parenthood Action Fund. What--if you could help us
understand what the duties are for your $31,000 of
contribution. My guess is--you're running the mothership here--
when you show up and want to have something done, it's probably
done.
Does Planned Parenthood control any organizations that
lobby?
Ms. Richards. The Planned Parenthood Action Fund is a
separate organization that has its own board and its own
fundraising and no Federal employees.
Chairman Chaffetz. Shared employees, shared assets, shared
lists, shared emails, shared assets. This is the concern.
Tell me about the----
Ms. Richards. Could I--I just want to make sure you
understood my statement, since I know that we're talking about
Federal funds. Zero Federal funds are related to the Planned
Parenthood Action Fund.
Chairman Chaffetz. It is the commingling that bothers us.
Every dollar there----
Ms. Richards. We are----
Chairman Chaffetz. No. Hold on. Every dollar that you get
in a Federal--from Federal dollars means you don't necessarily
have to allocate it for these particular assets. So that's what
we're concerned about.
Tell me about the $200,000 you gave to the Ballot
Initiative Strategy Center. What was that for? That was in
2013, as well.
Ms. Richards. So I'm not familiar with that exact payment,
but I'm happy----
Chairman Chaffetz. Well, you gave them $200,000. If you
don't know--you're running this organization.
Ms. Richards. Sir, I----
Chairman Chaffetz. Let me--let me----
Ms. Richards. Excuse me, sir.
Chairman Chaffetz. No. No. Hold on. Let me list out what
their goal is. Their mantra is, quote, ``Envisioning a future
where progressives change the game and use ballot measures as a
political and civic engagement tool for victory.'' And you gave
them $200,000.
Ms. Richards. Sir, I run an organization that has a budget
of roughly $200 million, and so when you pull out one figure
out of the last 5 years, I'm trying to be responsive.
It's important--and perhaps you're not aware that there
have been many efforts in States over the last several years to
pass ballot initiatives that restrict women's access to birth
control and reproductive health care.
Chairman Chaffetz. But you've also----
Ms. Richards. So we've absolutely been involved in ballot
initiative measures that have been introduced by people----
Chairman Chaffetz. This is why I don't think you need----
Ms. Richards. --that want to restrict women's health care.
Chairman Chaffetz. If you want to be a private entity, be a
private entity, but you don't need Federal dollars in order to
do this.
Ms. Richards. I don't use Federal dollars to do that, sir.
Chairman Chaffetz. You do to run the organization. Planned
Parenthood----
Ms. Richards. Excuse me.
Chairman Chaffetz. Planned Parenthood has given Planned
Parenthood Action Fund more than $22 million to exercise what--
involved in their lobbying expenditures and their advocacy
efforts.
Ms. Richards. None of these--none of the dollars that you
are discussing are Federal dollars. And the Planned Parenthood
Federation of America receives almost no Federal dollars. I
think, at this point, only $21,000----
Chairman Chaffetz. So it goes through the----
Ms. Richards. --for a clinical trial network----
Chairman Chaffetz. It goes through the same organization--
--
Ms. Richards. --for birth control.
Chairman Chaffetz. --and you just separate all that out.
Let me----
Ms. Richards. We are highly accountable--excuse me?
Chairman Chaffetz. My time--I've gone over time. I need to
show this last slide. This one I don't understand.
And, in the case of Dayna, when she came to Planned
Parenthood, did she get a mammogram?
Ms. Richards. No. She was referred for a mammogram.
Absolutely.
Chairman Chaffetz. And that's part of the challenge, is
that you don't do mammograms. So if you----
Ms. Richards. We----
Chairman Chaffetz. Go ahead.
Ms. Richards. I'm sorry, I've never----
Chairman Chaffetz. You don't do mammograms, correct?
There's, like, one or two places that does it, but----
Ms. Richards. That's----
Chairman Chaffetz. --you don't do mammograms.
Ms. Richards. If you would give me one moment----
Chairman Chaffetz. Sure.
Ms. Richards. --to explain.
Planned Parenthood is a women's health center, just like
every--where I go for my breast exams every year. If you need a
mammogram, you're referred to a radiological center, and that's
how women actually receive their care.
And we provide breast exams to--I can get you the numbers
of how many hundreds of thousands of women received breast
exams at Planned Parenthood last year. Has nothing to do with--
I don't--again----
Chairman Chaffetz. Here's the problem.
Ms. Richards. You created this slide.
Chairman Chaffetz. And I will try to wrap up.
Ms. Richards. I have no idea what it is.
Chairman Chaffetz. Well, it's the reduction over the course
of years--in pink, that's the reduction in the breast exams.
And the red is the increase in the abortions.
Ms. Richards. I----
Chairman Chaffetz. That's what's going on in your
organization.
Ms. Richards. This is a slide that has never been shown to
me before. I'm happy to look at it, and--but it absolutely does
not reflect what's happening at Planned Parenthood.
Chairman Chaffetz. You're going to deny that if we take----
Ms. Richards. I'm going to deny----
Chairman Chaffetz. --those numbers out of your report----
Ms. Richards. It's a slide that you've just shown me, that
no one has ever provided us before. We've provided you all the
information about everything, all the services that Planned
Parenthood provides. And it doesn't feel like we're trying to
get the truth here. You just showed me this; I'm happy to look
at it.
Chairman Chaffetz. I pulled those numbers directly out of
your corporate report.
My time has----
Ms. Richards. Oh, excuse me. My lawyer is informing me that
the source of this is actually Americans United for Life, which
is an anti-abortion group. So I would check your source.
Chairman Chaffetz. Then we will get to the bottom of the
truth of that.
We will now recognize Mr. Cummings for a generous 7
minutes.
Mr. Cummings. I thought it was 8, Mr. Chairman. I think
it's 8.
Chairman Chaffetz. Go ahead.
Mr. Cummings. Thank you very much.
Ms. Richards, you know, I often hear women, including my
wife, talk about the way women are treated as opposed to men.
And, not being a woman, I at the same time try to be sensitive.
So I want to just--you know, the chairman just gave you a
series of questions. I just have a few other ones.
Ms. Richards, I find it extremely hypocritical that
Republicans criticize the salaries of Planned Parenthood
officials when you have violated no laws, especially while
these same Republicans completely ignore the CEOs of huge
companies that are actually guilty of breaking the law.
Earlier this year, Citicorp, J.P. Morgan, and other major
banks pled guilty to manipulating currency markets and interest
rates. They were fined more than $5 billion for their actions.
Yet Citigroup's CEO still received $13 million last year, and
J.P. Morgan's CEO received $20 million. These banks get
extensive Federal support in the form of borrowing through the
Federal Reserve's discount window and access to deposit
insurance through the FDIC.
Ms. Richards, do you know if House Republicans made any
effort to strip the banks of their Federal support that I just
talked about?
Ms. Richards. I'm not aware.
Mr. Cummings. Well, I can tell you. They didn't.
Johnson & Johnson, another one, was fined more than $2
billion for illegally marketing drugs and paying kickbacks to
doctors and nursing homes, yet the company's CEO still received
$25 million last year.
Ms. Richards, do you know if the House Republicans
conducted an investigation of this company or other drug
companies that violated the law? Do you?
Ms. Richards. I do not.
Mr. Cummings. Well, I can answer that for you. No, they
didn't. And they also never sought to deny them Federal funding
through Medicaid or to block their NIH grants.
Let me go on. Last month, Lockheed Martin was fined
millions of dollars for using taxpayer funds to lobby Congress
to maintain its hold on a multibillion-dollar Pentagon
contract. Lockheed's CEO received a stunning $33 million last
year.
Ms. Richards, do you know if there has been any
investigation or any effort--any--to eliminate Lockheed
Martin's Federal funding?
Ms. Richards. Sounds like there hasn't been.
Mr. Cummings. You got it. Of course there wasn't.
These are huge companies that are actually guilty of
breaking the law, and their CEOs make millions of dollars.
Republicans never criticize the salaries of their CEOs, and
they never try to strip their Federal funding, their government
subsidies, or their tax breaks.
But when it comes to women's health--when it comes to
women's health, the Republicans' approach is completely
different. Republicans targeted Planned Parenthood, which
provides essential, high-quality care to millions of American
women more aggressively than all of these companies combined.
With no evidence of wrongdoing, these Republican investigations
multiply, and the political theater continues.
This whole defunding fight is just a pretext for the real
Republican agenda--it's a pretext: Take away the constitutional
right of women and their doctors to decide what is best for
them. I reject these shameful--these shameful attacks on
women's health.
Let me go on.
Now, Ms. Richards, I want to--again, I want to thank you
for being here. And Republicans accuse Planned Parenthood of
selling fetal tissue from abortion for profit. Federal law
explicitly allows for the reimbursement of reasonable expenses
for tissue samples. But the Republicans say that Mr. Daleiden's
videos are proof that Planned Parenthood was making a profit.
So, at this time, I'd just like to--do you know who Dr.
Deborah Nucatola is?
Ms. Richards. Yes, sir.
Mr. Cummings. And who is that?
Ms. Richards. She works for us in our medical division.
Mr. Cummings. I was going to show some clips, but the--our
friends had some problems with it, so I want to just do some
quotes from some of the stuff that Mr. Daleiden left on the
cutting floor when he was doing his--working with the tapes.
Dr. Deborah Nucatola said, and I quote, ``To them, this is
not a service they should be making money for,'' end of quote.
That's left on--that was left on the floor. She said also,
quote, ``no one's going to see this as a moneymaking thing,''
end of quote. She went on to say, ``We're not looking to make
money from this. Our goal is to keep access available,'' end of
quote.
Another quote that was left on the cutting room floor: ``We
really just want it to be reasonable for the impact it has on
the clinic. This is not something--this isn't a new revenue
stream that affiliates are looking at. This is a way to offer
patients a service that they want, do good for the medical
community, and still maintain access at the end of the day,''
end of quote.
She went on to say another piece on the cutting room floor.
You know, this was on the floor. Quote, ``Are there affiliates
that would just donate the tissue for free?''--or--and then
there's another one. And then I'll just end with this one. Dr.
Nucatola said, and I quote, ``Probably, I mean, really the
guidance is, this is not something you should be making an
exorbitant amount of money on.''
And so let me ask you this. Ms. Richards, I cannot imagine
a more clear answer than these. I mean, as far as I can tell,
Dr. Daleiden and his group spent the better part of 3 years--3
years, Ms. Richards--trying and failing to entrap Planned
Parenthood employees. They tried to get someone to sign a
contract, agree to a sale, or provide even one tissue sample at
a price above the reasonable expenses that are allowed under
the law. But nobody--nobody has identified a single--a single
incident where that occurred.
Is that right, Ms. Richards?
Ms. Richards. That's correct.
Mr. Cummings. It's amazing how hard Mr. Daleiden and his
group tried to get your affiliates to accept more than
reasonable expenses. Over and over again, they pressed, they
pushed, they cajoled, but they never succeeded.
So, after they failed in this 3-year effort, when they were
unable to get even one agreement, they put out these misleading
videos instead, and they cut out every single time an employee
said, ``No,'' ``No,'' ``No,'' ``No.''
Ms. Richards, this is my final question as I run out of
time. In the clips that I just talked about, Dr. Nucatola was
not aware that she was being secretly recorded. Do you know
whether that's accurate or not?
Ms. Richards. That's completely accurate.
Mr. Cummings. So she was sharing the truth; that is,
Planned Parenthood does not seek to profit from its
participation in fetal tissue research. Is that correct?
Ms. Richards. That's correct.
Mr. Cummings. My time is up.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
We'll now recognize the gentlewoman from Wyoming, Ms.
Lummis, for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Lummis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Ms. Richards, for being with us today.
My first question is, how many Planned Parenthood clinics
have mammogram machines?
Ms. Richards. There aren't any Planned Parenthood clinics,
I believe--to the best of my knowledge, not any have mammogram
machines at their facility.
Mrs. Lummis. And how many Planned Parenthood clinics are
there?
Ms. Richards. On any given day, between 650 and 700.
Mrs. Lummis. Okay. So none, to your knowledge, have a
mammogram machine.
Ms. Richards. Right. We have different kinds of
arrangements with--depending on the State, to refer women for
mammograms.
Mrs. Lummis. And----
Ms. Richards. As I said earlier to, I think, the question
to the chairman, this is----
Mrs. Lummis. And what surgical services does Planned
Parenthood provide? Surgical services.
Ms. Richards. Well, we provide surgical abortions, and we
provide colposcopy. We do a variety of services. And, Ms.
Lummis----
Mrs. Lummis. Can you explain----
Ms. Richards. --Ms. Lummis, to be responsive, you know, we
have core services across the country, but some Planned
Parenthoods provide broader services. Some----
Mrs. Lummis. Okay.
Ms. Richards. --provide primary care, et cetera.
Mrs. Lummis. Okay. I was just asking about surgical
services with that question.
Ms. Richards. Okay.
Mrs. Lummis. Tell me--so abortion is included in ``surgical
services.'' But can--I want to find out where you get your 3-
percent figure that you cite for abortion procedures. That's
your self-reported abortion statistic.
Ms. Richards. That's 3 percent of all the procedures we
provide in----
Mrs. Lummis. The----
Ms. Richards. --all the services that we provide.
Mrs. Lummis. Okay.
Well, let's talk about Planned Parenthood revenue from
abortions. If you look at the 2013 statistics that you report,
abortions from--if you--from revenue would have been over 86
percent of your nongovernment revenue.
How do you explain this massive disparity between the
amount of revenue you collect from abortion and the fact that
you only report 3 percent of your services being abortion?
Ms. Richards. Well, I think there's two questions you've
sort of mixed in there, so let me try to address both.
One is, as we've already stated, Federal money does not go
for abortion, so the Federal portion that we were discussing is
reimbursement for preventive care services. I think the other--
so that's why they're not--those numbers don't--aren't
connected.
Mrs. Lummis. How many----
Ms. Richards. The----
Mrs. Lummis. Can you tell me how many of your affiliates
receive the majority of their revenue from abortion?
Ms. Richards. I don't know that answer.
Mrs. Lummis. Could you get it for me?
Ms. Richards. I'll talk to my team.
Mrs. Lummis. Thanks.
Ms. Richards. But I do think it's important to understand
that abortion procedures are probably more expensive than some
other procedures that we--that we provide, which might, you
know, might explain what you're trying to get at.
Mrs. Lummis. Okay.
According to your 2013 tax return--I'm switching now to
travel expenses--Planned Parenthood spent over $5.1 million on
travel last year. So, as the chairman said earlier, that's
nearly $14,000 per day.
What is all that money being spent on?
Ms. Richards. Well, we're an organization that--we're in 50
States. We also, as the chairman has noted, we have programs in
Latin America and in Africa, as well, where we support family
planning programs in those--so I can certainly--and I think we
have provided very detailed information, thousands of pages of
both our financial statements, our audited financials, our
annual report. And if there's anything that we need to break
down further, I'm happy to do that.
What I would say, that, again----
Mrs. Lummis. I would very much appreciate it if you would
break it down, because the taxpayers are funding over 40
percent of Planned Parenthood. And my point is they just have a
right to know how this money is being spent----
Ms. Richards. Absolutely.
Mrs. Lummis. --and if taxpayer dollars are being used to
free up services that you provide that are aberrant services in
the view of many taxpayers, when there are alternatives in this
country, many, many, 13,000 clinics that cater specifically to
women's health.
Ms. Richards. Well, Congresswoman Lummis, I'd like to
address that, Because one of the comments that was made
earlier, I wasn't able to respond, is that we don't get a
Federal subsidy. Really it is important to understand for
everyone here how the Medicaid program----
Mrs. Lummis. Can you function--let me ask you this--could
you function on non-Federal dollars? Why do you need Federal
dollars? You're making a ton of dough.
Ms. Richards. We don't make any profit off of Federal
money. And if I could just have a moment to explain, $1.6
million----
Mrs. Lummis. But you are using Federal dollars and
displacing money that could go to the 13,000 healthcare
clinics.
My time is up. I yield back.
Ms. Richards. Could I answer the question?
Chairman Chaffetz. Sure.
Ms. Richards. I'm not sure exactly what the whole question
was, but I do think it's really important that you understand
that 60 percent of our patients are receiving either--they are
either Medicaid patients or they may be Title X patients.
Seventy-eight percent of our patients live at 150 percent of
poverty or below, and for many of them Planned Parenthood is
the only family planning provider that will see them in their
area. Half of our health centers are in medically underserved
communities.
So it is not a--we are getting--we don't just get a big
check from the Federal Government. We, like other Medicaid
providers, we are reimbursed directly for services provided.
Mrs. Lummis. Mr. Chairman, thank you for allowing Ms.
Richards to answer the question. Thank you.
Chairman Chaffetz. Just as a point of clarification, Ms.
Richards, I want to make sure there is no ambiguity here. The
gentlewoman from Wyoming asked for a listing of affiliates
where the majority of revenue comes from abortion services. You
said you'd talk to your team. Will you actually provide us that
list?
Ms. Richards. I will talk to my team. Just for the record,
I am here voluntarily. We have provided tens of thousands of
pages of documents to you. We have provided audited financial
statements. I will talk to my team and we will do everything we
can to be----
Chairman Chaffetz. For the record, you have been very
cooperative. I just want to keep that rolling. And you were
good at agreeing to give other bits of information. Why not
this part of information?
Ms. Richards. I don't want to commit to anything that I
don't actually have. I said I will work with you and your team.
We have no interest in hiding any information.
Chairman Chaffetz. If you have it, will you give it to us?
Ms. Richards. I don't have it, so I'm just saying to you, I
will work with my team, and we are working with your staff to
provide any and all information that we can.
Chairman Chaffetz. I would hope that that would include the
request from Mrs. Lummis of Wyoming as well.
I now recognize the gentlewoman from New York, Mrs.
Maloney, for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Maloney. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I first would
like to register my opposition and my objection to the chairman
beating up on a woman, on our witness today, for making a good
salary. In the entire time I have been in Congress, I have
never seen a witness beaten up and questioned about their
salary. Ms. Richards heads a distinguished organization
providing healthcare services to millions of Americans, and I
find it totally inappropriate and discriminatory.
Ms. Richards, are you aware that there are over 285 rallies
in support of Planned Parenthood, including one in my district
today, and that many are calling today National Pink Out Day in
support of the services and life-changing and life-support
services of Planned Parenthood? Are you aware of that?
Ms. Richards. I am aware of that, and I look forward to
changing into pink as soon as these proceedings are finished
today.
Mrs. Maloney. And are you aware that over 2.7 million men
and women in America choose Planned Parenthood as their primary
health provider and that there are two Planned Parenthood
clinics in the district that I am privileged to represent? And
if you go at the end of the day, young women and men are lined
up through the waiting room, out the door, and on some days
clear down the block waiting for the healthcare services of
Planned Parenthood.
Ms. Richards. I'm glad to hear that. And, again, we're
pleased to provide services to anyone who walks in our door.
One of the things that I think is very important and refers
a little bit to the question earlier is that 60 percent of our
health centers are able to see patients on the same day. And I
know for many women, if they are concerned about a lump in
their breast or they need birth control, and for some of them
they haven't had an annual exam in many, many years, we are
proud to be able to serve them with high-quality care when they
need it.
Mrs. Maloney. And are you aware that this hearing today is
promoted by a series of deceptively edited and purposely
misleading videos that have been found to be deceptively edited
by leading fact-checking organizations in this country,
including five States? Five States had their own individual
investigations. Now it's six. Missouri did their own review,
and they found that they are complying, that Planned Parenthood
is complying with all State laws and regulations regarding
tissue donations.
Now, are you aware of any other efforts by Republicans and
others to defund other organizations that provide health care,
reproductive health care to women in this country?
Ms. Richards. I'm not aware of any, but there may be.
Mrs. Maloney. What about attacks on Title X?
Ms. Richards. Well, I think it has been concerning that not
only are we seeing in this country efforts to end access to
safe and legal abortion, which is an important right of women
in America, but the reductions in support for family planning
are equally disturbing.
I'm very encouraged actually that finally we are beginning
to see some breakthrough. As I said earlier, we have now the
lowest teen pregnancy in 40 years in America. We are seeing
much better birth control and through the Affordable Care Act
now 50 million women getting access to no-cost birth control. I
think there is a lot we can do to reduce unintended pregnancy
in America.
Mrs. Maloney. What do you say to those who want to defund
Planned Parenthood and outlaw abortion altogether in our
country?
Ms. Richards. Well, I think what is important to me is, you
know, at Planned Parenthood we trust women to be able to make
their own healthcare decisions and to make their decisions
about where they want to go to for health care. And I know that
a lot of the members of this committee feel strongly that
people should be able to go to their own doctor. So this isn't
really an attack on Planned Parenthood. This is an attack on
2.7 million patients who each year choose Planned Parenthood as
their healthcare provider, and I think they should have that
right.
Mrs. Maloney. And I agree with you completely. We in
Congress can choose our healthcare provider. Vulnerable men and
women should likewise be able to choose their healthcare
provider.
I would just like to end by saying that using these videos
to justify efforts to defund Planned Parenthood is an extreme
abuse, it is deceitful, and it undermines the integrity of this
committee.
Thank you. My time has expired.
Chairman Chaffetz. The gentlewoman's time is expired.
I now recognize the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Jordan.
Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Richards, if the videos were selectively edited,
heavily edited, if this was entrapment, if this was all untrue,
then why did you apologize?
Ms. Richards. Well, Congressman, first I think everyone has
agreed they were heavily edited and that certainly I think even
the perpetrator agreed----
Mr. Jordan. My question is, why did you apologize?
Ms. Richards. The perpetrator has agreed they were done
undercover. I spoke with Dr. Nucatola, who was featured in one
of the videos, and I thought it was important. In my opinion,
it was inappropriate to have a clinical discussion in a
nonconfidential, nonclinical setting, and I told her that.
Mr. Jordan. What were you apologizing for?
Ms. Richards. That she used, I think, in my judgment, it
was bad judgment to have a clinical discussion in a nonclinical
setting.
Mr. Jordan. I mean, the first video comes out July 14. Two
days later you go and issue an apology. And you said this:
``It's unacceptable. I personally apologize for the tone and
statements.'' Well, I want to know----
Ms. Richards. I felt like----
Mr. Jordan. No, here is the question. Which statements were
you apologizing for?
Ms. Richards. It was really the situation that she was in.
And I believe that, again, at that----
Mr. Jordan. But, Ms. Richards, that's not what you said.
You said: I apologize for statements. I'd like to know, I think
the American people would like to know which statements in the
video were you apologizing for. Were you apologizing for
statements that were untrue? Because you normally don't do that
in life. If something is untrue and false, you don't apologize
for that, you correct the record. But that's not what you said.
You said: ``I personally apologize for the tone and
statements.''
And I'm asking you a simple question. There was only one
video at the time you issued this statement, when you did your
video. There was only one video. I want to know, in that video
that you were referencing, which statements were you
apologizing for?
Ms. Richards. Well, Congressman, at the time, as you I'm
sure remember, that video was released, we'd had no time to
actually evaluate how much editing had happened. It was days
later that we were able----
Mr. Jordan. Which true statements in that video were you
apologizing for, Ms. Richards?
Ms. Richards. And so I was reflecting that on that video,
not any particular statement, that given--did not reflect the
compassionate care that we provide at Planned Parenthood.
Mr. Jordan. Okay. Well, that raises an important question.
So is what you said in your video untrue, you weren't really
apologizing for statements made?
Ms. Richards. I was apologizing for what was said in a
nonclinical setting, in a nonappropriate way, and I don't
believe--and I don't believe----
Mr. Jordan. You can't have it both ways. You can't say, I'm
apologizing for statements in one video, and then not tell us
what those statements were.
Ms. Richards. I don't believe that Dr. Nucatola----
Mr. Jordan. Or you can do this. You can say:You know what?
What I said in the video I produced wasn't true. I really
wasn't apologizing for any statement. You can tell us that here
on the record if you'd like. But it can't be both positions. It
has to be one. And I want to know which one is it? And,
frankly, the American people want to know which one is it?
Ms. Richards. In my judgment it was inappropriate to have
that conversation in a nonclinical setting, in a non
confidential area about clinical matters, and I have told that
to Dr. Nucatola.
Mr. Jordan. Okay. Why didn't you say that?
Ms. Richards. I will also tell you, Dr. Nucatola----
Mr. Jordan. Why didn't you say that? This wasn't a reporter
sticking a mic in front of your face. This was a video you
produced to send out to the whole world.
Ms. Richards. Congressman, we may just have to agree to
disagree----
Mr. Jordan. Why didn't you say that? If that's what you
were thinking, why didn't you say that?
Ms. Richards. We may just have to agree to disagree on this
matter. I think I've explained myself.
Mr. Jordan. I don't think we're agreeing to disagree. I
think you're not answering my question.
Ms. Richards. Well, I've answered it, I think, repeatedly
here. And I want to say also for the record----
Mr. Jordan. Real quickly, just for the record, but this to
me is critical. Because at the moment you did this, there was
only one video. And then you do your video in response to that
video. And you made a specific statement. I'm sure your staff
worked on the issue, prepared it. This probably went through a
number of drafts. And you were very specific in what you said:
``I apologize for the tone and statements.''
So there are obviously statements in that first video that
were accurate that you didn't think needed to be out there, and
you wanted to apologize for it, and you wanted that message
heard by the American people. And I'm asking you a simple
question. In that first video----
Ms. Richards. Congressman Jordan----
Mr. Jordan. In that first video, tell me what you needed to
apologize for?
Ms. Richards. That highly edited video, that now, of
course, as we have gotten further and I have read pages--pages
and pages now----
Mr. Jordan. That highly edited video that you apologized
for.
Ms. Richards. Excuse me. I have now read hundreds of pages
of all of the things that were said, and what is clear now,
that there were many, I think 10 times during that
conversation, in which Dr. Nucatola expressly said----
Mr. Jordan. Ms. Richards, it's a simple question.
Ms. Richards. Well, I have answered it as best----
Mr. Jordan. It is as simple and as basic as it gets. You
don't apologize for things that are inaccurate. You apologize
for things that are accurate. And you said there were
statements in that first video that I want to apologize for.
I'm asking you to tell this committee chairman, this committee,
and the American people, what were those statements?
Ms. Richards. Well, I think I have already made my
explanation. And just for the record, Dr. Nucatola is an
excellent doctor.
Mr. Jordan. I'm not saying she's not. I'm asking what you
said.
Ms. Richards. Well, I'd just like--you've had your moment.
Chairman Chaffetz. The gentleman's time has expired.
Ms. Richards. I wanted to make sure that you understood
that she provides incredibly compassionate care and I'm proud
of her.
Chairman Chaffetz. Thank you.
I now recognize the gentlewoman from the District of
Columbia, Ms. Norton.
Ms. Norton. Ms. Richards, first I want to thank you for the
Medicaid funds you do receive. The fact that they are Medicaid
funds makes its own statement about who you are serving. You
are serving low-income women in my community and throughout the
country. I want to thank you for that.
I want to congratulate you on raising your own funds. You
receive a very small grant. You are being investigated by four
committees of the United States Congress and the Speaker wants
a standing committee. None of them have indicated they want to
investigate this deceptive tape, which at the moment is
enjoined because it may indeed be illegal. Yet, this committee
is about uncovering illegal matters, not providing a cover for
such matters.
You know, when I saw this tape I had a sense of dj vu, and
I asked the staff to look to see, you know, isn't there some
kind of pattern here, and discovered that there were nearly 10
of these deceptive sting operations over the past 10 or 15
years.
Ms. Richards. Correct.
Ms. Norton. May I ask you, has any one of those stings
uncovered wrongdoing on the part of Planned Parenthood?
Ms. Richards. Absolutely not. And thank you, Congresswoman
Norton, I think it is important to recognize this is a tactic
that has been used repeatedly, and as you say, 10 times in the
last 15 years, and every single time it's been thoroughly
discredited.
Ms. Norton. You know, and it seems they never learn, Ms.
Richards. I want to bring to your attention a sting from 2000
that looks remarkably like this one. An anti-abortion extremist
approached the committee, I think it was the House Energy and
Commerce Committee, to say that they had evidence that Planned
Parenthood was selling fetal tissue for profit, which is, of
course, what has been alleged by Republicans consistently.
Of course, there was an investigation, a hearing with this
whistleblower, who claimed he had helped Planned Parenthood
sell fetal tissue for profit and that he had seen intact
fetuses at a Planned Parenthood clinic. By the way, does that
not sound familiar? He said--there was an affidavit at the
hearing. He swore that in his affidavit--this is somebody who
was watching out for perhaps being prosecuted at the hearing--
that he had no personal knowledge of anyone at Planned
Parenthood selling fetal tissue for profit.
During his testimony--this is about 15 years ago--he
admitted that he was paid by an anti-abortion group to appear
in the sting video. And I want to quote what he said. ``When I
was under oath, I told the truth. Anything I said on the video
when I was not under oath, that is a different story.'' Does
that not sound like the story of this video?
Ms. Richards. I think it does.
Ms. Norton. I want to know how you can protect yourself as
an institutional matter, how do you deal with these repeated
stings, unsuccessful though they are, being approached year
after year as you attempt to provide health services for low-
income women? What do you do as an institutional matter with
repeated stings to keep going in the face of this activity?
Ms. Richards. Well, I think what keeps us going, and I
think I could speak here for the thousands of folks that work
at Planned Parenthood, many of whom deal with threats to their
own personal safety, is it's the patients, that's what keeps
you going.
Ms. Norton. But is there anything you could do to protect
yourself, excuse me, to protect yourself when people come off
the street? You presume they would be in good faith. Is there
anything that an organization could even do to protect
themselves against unethical activity of this kind?
Ms. Richards. Well, we work--I mean, we work very hard to
protect our patients, and they are our number one priority
always, and so we have security. We take it very, very
seriously. It's a shame to think that there are people in this
country who are so committed to ending women's access to both
birth control and safe and legal abortion that they will really
resort to any means to try to entrap people, twist the truth,
in order to reach their ends.
But again, we believe, and why I'm here voluntarily today,
is that the facts are on our side. We're proud of the health
care that we deliver every single year, despite the animosity
by some, and we are grateful that the American people stand
with Planned Parenthood, as I think as the Wall Street Journal
showed last night.
Ms. Norton. Sixty-five percent.
Ms. Richards. Thank you, Congresswoman.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentlewoman.
We'll now recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Mica,
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Mica. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Ms. Richards, for being with us.
I guess we're all products of our personal experience. We
heard the chairman, we heard the ranking member, how their
lives are affected. I guess when I was young I had a different
opinion, but when my wife and I lost our first child your life
and your philosophy change. And from that time, I tried to be a
champion for the unborn. They don't have advocates. A lot of
groups, they get a lot of money advocating. But they don't have
a very good lobby.
You are an advocate for abortion, and your organization
provides a significant number of abortions. I think the staff
told me there were about 300,000 abortions last year in the
United States. Is that approximate?
Ms. Richards. About 300,000 at Planned Parenthood.
Mr. Mica. At Planned Parenthood.
Ms. Richards. That's correct.
Mr. Mica. What's the total in the United States?
Ms. Richards. I think it's about a million. Actually, don't
hold me to that, though. I don't have the numbers in front of
me.
Mr. Mica. So basically you provide about a third of the
abortions. So you're the leader--you would probably have to be
the leading provider of abortion in the country, your
organization?
Ms. Richards. I don't know if that's exactly true. I just
only know what we do.
Mr. Mica. You know, I have had belief of some exceptions,
but there are many people that I represent myself who object to
any public money going into abortions. I think the majority of
Americans would oppose public Federal dollars going into
abortion. Would you agree with that?
Ms. Richards. I don't think the polling reflects that, but
I guess--and it depends. I'm not familiar with your district.
Mr. Mica. Again, I think if you ask people, I think they
would, and that's part of it.
Now, the most recent controversy raised questions about
public money and your organization. I looked at it, I was kind
of stunned. It's about 41 percent of your total money is
Federal money. That's not just a small amount, because if you
had your--the money you get from different programs, grants, et
cetera, it's 41 percent, and I have had that figure confirmed.
That's a significant amount of money.
Nobody--I don't think most people have any problem with you
spending the money on women's health care. I'm a strong
advocate for that. You have 650 clinics?
Ms. Richards. Roughly. There are new ones opening all the
time.
Mr. Mica. You told Mrs. Lummis that you don't have one
mammogram machine in one?
Ms. Richards. We have never--mammograms have never----
Mr. Mica. So you don't do that, but you----
Ms. Richards. We do breast exams.
Mr. Mica. You do.
Ms. Richards. Just like my own doctor does for--right.
Mr. Mica. But your breast exams actually are down
significantly. And I have got the numbers from your reports,
from 830,312 exams in 2009 to 487,029 in 2013. And those are
your statistics. So you are getting more money. You are not
spending it there.
Now, do all 650 of the clinics perform abortions?
Ms. Richards. No, sir.
Mr. Mica. How many?
Ms. Richards. Roughly half provide abortion services.
Mr. Mica. So half of the clinics. Again, this is where when
41 percent of the money is coming out of the public treasury,
people become concerned. And there are people who their
religion, their principles, they feel very strongly, as do I,
that no public money should go into this.
Mr. Cummings said we should do everything we should to put
money into research. You're not putting money into research.You
know, you're criticized for your salary, which is, you know,
it's a big organization. But then you look at where's the money
going? In Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, one employee
got $459,000; in southern New England one employee got nearly
$400,000, $398,000; another one, in Mira Monte, $387,000;
another one, $377,000; another one, a-quarter-of-a-million
dollars. There are dozens of employees in the quarter-of-a-
million-dollar range.
People want the money to go for research, people want the
money to go for helping women with their health care,
identifying the problem, or putting the money where it can do
the most good. And again, we don't--we have at least the
perception of it not being the case when the chairman outlined
travel, lavish parties, and expenses. And maybe you separate
that money out, but I'm telling you, it does not look good.
I yield back.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
Ms. Richards. I would love a chance to respond, but I guess
that wasn't really----
Chairman Chaffetz. It was more of a comment than a
question. We need to keep the pace here.
Ms. Richards. Okay.
Chairman Chaffetz. We'll now recognize the gentleman from
Virginia, Mr. Connolly, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Connolly. I thank the chair.
Welcome, Ms. Richards.
Ms. Richards. Thank you, Congressman.
Mr. Connolly. I wish your mom were here today. She'd be
handing out Texas boots to a lot of my colleagues.
Ms. Richards. She's here in spirit.
Mr. Connolly. Yeah, thank God.
You know, I hope every American woman is watching today's
hearing because just the visuals, as well as the audios, tell
you a lot. My colleagues like to say there is no war on women.
Look at how you've been treated as a witness: Intimidation,
talking over, interrupting, cutting off sentences, criticizing
you because of your salary. How dare you? Who do you think you
are? Making a professional salary as the head of a premier
national organization and daring to actually make decisions as
the head of that organization. Lord Almighty, what's America
coming to?
The disrespect, the misogamy rampant here today tells us
what is really going on here. This isn't about some bogus
video, the author of whom does not have the courage to appear
here, nor would the majority call him because they know he'll
make a bad witness under oath. This is about a conservative
philosophy that says we are constitutionalists. They hold it
up. We believe in rugged individualism and personal liberty.
With one big carveout, though, there is an asterisk in that
assertion, and that is except when it comes to women
controlling their own bodies and making their own health
decisions.
You would never know that the Constitution, according to
the Supreme Court, guarantees a right of choice. Hopefully,
apparently, we're going to erode that choice and that right by
using insinuation and slander and half truths to besmirch a
premier organization whose primary mission is to provide health
services both to men and women, but primarily women.
You know, this notion, one of my colleagues said, well,
getting rid of Planned Parenthood will just hand over these
functions to community health clinics and other nonprofits that
can take up the slack. Now, if you were really committed to
that principle, surely you would agree to the expansion of
Medicaid as provided under the Affordable Care Act to, in my
home State of Virginia, 400,000 people who aren't currently
covered.
Ms. Richards. That's correct.
Mr. Connolly. Make your job a lot easier, wouldn't it?
Ms. Richards. A lot of women, a lot of families in this
country need access to health care that are getting it.
Mr. Connolly. Right. So if we really mean it, that's what
we do. But of course the very same people who are saying that
vehemently oppose the expansion of Medicaid, which would be
funded in the first 3 years by 100 percent of Federal dollars
and thereafter 90 percent, a good deal for any State, which
might be why the Governor of Ohio, the Republican Governor of
Ohio actually agreed with that and expanded it.
Ms. Richards. That's right.
Mr. Connolly. Is there anything else you want to add,
uninterrupted, with some sense of respect, Ms. Richards? Let me
at least provide that to you.
Ms. Richards. Well, thank you, Congressman. And I did want
to respond to some of what's been said. We are a healthcare
provider to 2.7 million people every year. They come to us by
choice. And so when I think about what's really at stake here,
particularly for folks who think about ending access to Planned
Parenthood, I think about those folks.
Last year, we provided 3.5 million birth control services
in this country; 4.4 million STD testing and treatments;
378,000 Pap tests; and almost half a million breast exams; and
more than a million pregnancy tests. I think it's interesting,
one of the things we do at Planned Parenthood is we work to the
highest level, most current level of health care for women. And
so it's interesting, we are being criticized for the decline in
Pap smears, but in fact that's because we actually have adopted
the recent--the best medicine, which is that not every woman
needs a Pap smear every year.
To me that's what we're about, is making sure that every
woman in this country, regardless of where she lives,
regardless of her income, her immigration status, whether she
is insured, can get access to health care. That's what we do at
Planned Parenthood and we're proud to do it.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
Mr. Connolly. And there's other thing, and that's called
respect. Thank you, Ms. Richards, for being here.
Ms. Richards. Thank you.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
I now recognize the gentleman from Tennessee, Mr. Duncan,
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Duncan. Ms. Richards, this is my 27th year in Congress.
I can assure you, I have seen many male witnesses treated much
tougher than you have been treated here today. And also,
surely, you don't expect us--I can assure you, I'm not going to
be tough on you, but surely, you don't expect us to be easier
on you because you're a woman?
Ms. Richards. Absolutely not. That's not how my mama raised
me.
Mr. Duncan. Right.
Let me ask you this. You say in your testimony that a lot
of women wouldn't have access to certain types of health care
were it not for Planned Parenthood. Do you know that the
Department of Health and Human Services says there are 9,727
healthcare service delivery sites, there are 4,082 rural health
clinics, 1,200 federally funded qualified health centers that
also operate 9,000 other sites--over 9,000? Do you know about
that?
Ms. Richards. Uh-huh.
Mr. Duncan. And you also know that there are over 2,000
pregnancy health centers, over 80 percent of which receive no
Federal funds at all. And that doesn't even count the many
hundreds of thousands of private doctors, nurses, and
healthcare delivery services, walk-in clinics, and so forth.
Have you taken all of that into consideration?
Ms. Richards. Certainly. I mean, what I can speak to is
what I know about is the patients that choose--again,
voluntarily--to come to us. I think one of the interesting
things is that for nationally a third of the women who access
family planning services through a safety net provider, a third
of the women get that from Planned Parenthood, even though--
even though we are only----
Mr. Duncan. But my point is there's many, many thousands of
other alternative healthcare providers.
Let me ask you this. According to our reports, there are
2.3 million private charitable organizations. Almost all of
them receive no Federal funds. But do you know how many receive
41 percent of their funding from the taxpayers?
Ms. Richards. I don't know how many see as many patients as
we do. We see 2.7 million patients a year.
Mr. Duncan. Well, I'm saying, do you know of any other
private charitable organizations that are receiving 41 percent
from the government or $528 million from the taxpayers?
Ms. Richards. Well, again, I think the comparison, the fair
comparison would be, who is seeing 2.7 million patients?
Because as I said earlier, we don't get a big check from the
Federal Government. We actually are reimbursed for services
delivered, for birth control, for STD testing and treatment,
for well-woman visits.
Mr. Duncan. Well, I can tell you that almost every one of
those 2.3 million charitable organizations would, I'm sure, if
given the opportunity, would tell us that the government--
taxpayers benefit from what they're doing also. And just to
give you an example, the national Boys & Girls Clubs in their
last annual report said they received $26 million from the
Federal Government compared to your $528 million. It seems a
little bit lopsided to me.
Ms. Richards. Well, I think the cost of providing health
care to 2.7 million people, and I very much respect the Boys &
Girls Club, but we are actually just--we work like hospitals
and other healthcare providers and being reimbursed for--
directly for services that we provide. Again, I think it's--the
comparison is a little apples and oranges.
Mr. Duncan. Let me ask you this. Do you think it's right in
a free country to force people to contribute to your
organization? Because that's what you are doing, taking
taxpayer money from people that are totally opposed to what
you're doing.
Ms. Richards. We provide health care under the Medicaid
program just like every other hospital and healthcare provider
that sees Medicaid patients. And I think one of the things
that's important to understand is in many areas there aren't
new doctors or healthcare providers that will see Medicaid
patients. So particularly when you are talking about OB-GYN
services, it's not always easy for women, and particularly in
the southern United States, to find someone who will actually
provide them a well-woman visit, birth control services.
Mr. Duncan. Let me ask you this because my time is running
out. But I know you apologized for the discussion and the tone
and maybe the laughter--I don't know whether you apologized for
the laughter or not on the videos. But I'm not clear on this:
Do you defend the sale of baby body parts?
Ms. Richards. No. And I think that is really a total
mischaracterization. Fetal tissue research, which as I
mentioned was started, the whole commission that legalized and
created the structure under fetal tissue research was started
under the Reagan administration. And it is--actually what it
does is facilitates fetal tissue donation. And that is
actually, as I said, fewer than 1 percent of our health centers
do any--facilitate fetal tissue donation for the patient. But
fetal tissue research----
Mr. Duncan. My time has run out. I just want to say this.
It seems to me that the apology you offered was like what some
criminals do. They're not really sorry for what they've done,
they're sorry they got caught. And it seems to me that your
apology is more because you got caught on these videos.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Richards. I respectfully disagree.
Mr. Jordan. [Presiding.] I thank the gentleman.
The gentlelady from Illinois, Ms. Duckworth, is recognized.
Ms. Duckworth. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Richards, thank you for being here and testifying
today. I'm troubled by the ongoing attacks to defund Planned
Parenthood, an organization that provides such extensive
preventative healthcare services to millions of women.
And in fact, I ask unanimous consent to submit for the
record a letter from 92 organizations that work closely with
Planned Parenthood talking about all of the great, high-quality
health care Planned Parenthood provides to women and men across
the country.
Mr. Jordan. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Duckworth. Thank you.
I, myself, have received services from Planned Parenthood.
In fact, I, like many young men and women in this country, when
I was in my early 20s and first in college, I came from a very
poor family and I wasn't really able to afford college. And, in
fact, I went to college based on student loans and Pell grants
and two jobs, one of which was as a waitress. I couldn't get
that waitressing job without getting a health exam, and I
couldn't afford to go to a doctor. And the job was there. You
can start Friday if you come in with a valid health exam. Go to
your local Planned Parenthood. They will do it for you today
and you can start work in 2 days. It was a lifesaver.
And so I remember what it was like to be a young person,
needing the health care and being able to trust that I could go
to my local Planned Parenthood to get all the care that I
needed. So thank you to the organization for providing those
services for me when I was in need.
I want to talk a little bit about what you do across the
country and focus a little bit, as an example, on my home State
of Illinois. I think it is a critical point that 96 percent of
the services that Planned Parenthood, according to your most
recent annual report, are for preventative and screening
services. In fact, in Illinois for 2015, and I think--tell me
if these numbers sound accurate to you--nearly 60 percent
patients were served over the course of approximately 110,000
visits in Illinois. Nearly 50,000 visits were for contraceptive
services and over 34,000 visits were for STD testing and
treatment; 7,000 visits were for cancer screenings. Does that
sound about right to you, Ms. Richards?
Ms. Richards. That does. That does, thank you. Yes,
Congresswoman.
Ms. Duckworth. Thank you.
I would like to address an issue that started very early on
in this hearing, which was this implication that by allowing
Medicare and Medicaid to reimburse Planned Parenthood we are
shifting money away that could be better used for military
defense and for our service men and women. And as a military
woman who just retired after 23 years of service, I would like
to ask you to talk a little bit about the services that Planned
Parenthood has provided to military men and women and their
families for the past several decades, and also include the
women of the Peace Corps.
You know, I think it is especially important to note that
the very women who are willing to lay down their lives to
defend the Constitution of this great Nation were denied
services under the Hyde Amendment for abortion services,
especially as a result of rape or incest. And especially, you
know, this is tragic in light of the many tens of thousands of
women who are victims of military sexual trauma every single
year. So can you go over what you have done for military men
and women and Peace Corps volunteers for the past many decades?
Ms. Richards. Well, thank you. And I'm glad we were able to
provide you health care when you needed it. I know for many
young women, I too, my first real doctor visit was at a Planned
Parenthood when I had gone away from Texas. So I am grateful as
well to the organization.
We do serve everyone, and that is really--our mantra is
``Care. No matter what.'' We believe it's so important that no
matter what walk of life someone comes from, whether they're
insured, whether they're in the military, that they get
services. In fact, I remember the last time that this House of
Representatives went through a similar exercise, I remember
hearing from a woman in North Carolina, who said, you know, she
wrote in, she said: I don't know that they know that us
military wives go to Planned Parenthood when the doctor on base
can't see us.
And so I do know that we serve military families all over
this country, and we're proud to do so.
Ms. Duckworth. Can you talk a little bit about Senator
Murray's bipartisan legislation to allow--Women Veterans and
Family Health Services Act--which would allow us access to IVF
treatment, many of us for infertility issues caused by our
military service, being withdrawn as a result of the attacks on
Planned Parenthood?
Ms. Richards. Well, I'm not familiar with all the details
of her bill, but I know Senator Murray has been a strong
advocate for addressing--ensuring that women in the military
get the same types of services that women do here in the
States. And I think we are highly supportive of that. It is
incredibly important to me that women--we equalize women's
access to health care, both globally and in the U.S.
Ms. Duckworth. Thank you very much, Ms. Richards.
I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Chaffetz. [Presiding.] I thank the gentlewoman.
We'll now recognize the gentleman from Michigan, Mr.
Walberg, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Walberg. I thank the chairman.
And I thank the witness for being here. And I want you to
note I'm wearing a pink tie in solidarity with women's health
issues today. My wife, my daughter-in-law, my daughter, my two
granddaughters----
Ms. Richards. Congratulations.
Mr. Walberg. --are extremely important to me.
Just to go back to some of the statements on the videos,
and I'm not going to spend time there, but Planned Parenthood
commissioned a report by Fusion GPS examining the authenticity
of the videos. The conclusion of that report says the analysis
did not reveal widespread evidence of quote, ``substantive
video manipulation,'' and it, quote, ``shows no evidence of
audio manipulation.'' Full versions of the videos are available
on the Center for Medical Progress Web site and the CMP YouTube
channel showing that the only parts that have been edited out
are, one, bathroom breaks, and, two, breaks where no
conversations took place.
I just want that stated for the record, Mr. Chairman, as we
have a lot of controversy about the videos. And yet, the eyes
show it, but ears even more so hear what was said.
Let me go----
Ms. Richards. Could I address that?
Mr. Walberg. Very quickly.
Ms. Richards. Yes, I understand that.
Mr. Walberg. Because I want to go on to more crucial
issues.
Ms. Richards. Well, I do think it's important that we at
Planned Parenthood asked, I think even perhaps prior to this
committee, that all of the original source footage be released,
and that's actually--that has still not happened. Because,
again, we want to know--we want all of it out there.
Mr. Walberg. Well, we want to know too, and I think that
would be an opportunity.
Ms. Richards. So I think we can agree on that.
Mr. Walberg. But what we have seen so far, the ears have
heard what was said.
Also, I would address the unnecessary attacks coming from
some of the other side, especially on men taking an interest in
the lives of people most important in our lives. If men in this
society aren't allowed to stand and defend the women and
children we love, what has our country fallen to?
It's a shame we are even having this type of hearing today
when we have been brought into a frenzy and a concern about
what happens to our babies, our most defenseless. I just held
in my arms my brand-new granddaughter 3 weeks ago in an African
country where she was born. I thank God for that life, that
unique special life. And I told my son-in-law on the way home,
I said: It's amazing, Prince, that as we drive home here today,
having never met this little girl before, I would give my life
for her. I love her. She is unique and special.
That's why we have this hearing today. We want to get to
the truth. We want to make sure women's healthcare issues are
dealt with, and dealt with appropriately.
In that same country, meeting with the President of the
country the next day, and the Speaker of Parliament, who is a
female, they pleaded with me as a Member of Congress to stop
hurting their women and families and children, trying to change
their culture with organizations like our State Department,
USAID, and Planned Parenthood.
Let me ask some questions here, and I take this information
from Planned Parenthood Federation of America, your Web site,
and I take it from Medicare Benefit Policy Manual. It says that
both federally qualified healthcare centers, 13,000 of them in
this listing, and Planned Parenthood centers provide pelvic
exams, Pap, HPV testing, STD testing, manual breast exams,
birth control. Both entities provide that. Is that correct?
Ms. Richards. I don't know what all of the entirety of what
all FQHCs provide, but I know that we provide all of that.
Mr. Walberg. But you provide all that I just mentioned?
Ms. Richards. Yes.
Mr. Walberg. But emergency first responder care,
mammograms, immunizations, diabetes and glaucoma screenings,
cholesterol screenings, pediatric eye, ear, dental screenings,
well-child services, radiological services, cardiovascular
blood test, bone mass measurement, nurse on staff, all of
those, according to your Web site, you don't provide.
Ms. Richards. We provide in some places, but it's not a
core service, so it depends on the State.
Mr. Walberg. It's not a promised service.
Ms. Richards. It depends on the State.
Mr. Walberg. According to the Medicare Benefit Policy
Manual, the federally qualified healthcare centers provide
those services. Now, if we're talking about care for women, I
would suggest that the care is there in 13,000 without the
controversy of the abortions, the fetal manipulation, and
potential use of body parts in the wrong way.
And I think for the record, if we're talking about women's
health care, the issue of where we find it, it's found in
13,000-plus centers available to women, and Medicaid isn't
dealing with it. And oh, by the way, your opening statement
indicated great problems with Medicaid, and ObamaCare is
supposed to take care of that.
I hear my time has ended, and thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Richards. I would be happy to----
Chairman Chaffetz. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize the gentlewoman from Michigan, Mrs.
Lawrence, for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you.
There's a couple of things. It is very troubling to sit
here as a woman and to hear some questions that obviously are
insensitive. One, the continual question of why don't you
provide the x-rays for a mammogram where every woman here knows
you have a primary doctor, and that doctor examines you, and if
there is a lump, you are referred to a specialist. So I wish
those who would sit here to ask those questions would actually
have the sensitivity to understand what a woman goes through
with her health care. That would allow us to ask more pertinent
questions.
Secondly, it is exhausting to keep hearing about Federal
dollars being spent on abortion when repeatedly the facts
state--and it's not a controversy, read the facts, do your
research before you ask these exhausting, sometimes, I feel,
insulting questions--we cannot use Federal dollars for
abortion.
This is not a lump-sum budget item that we give to Planned
Parenthood. It is reimbursement. How many times does that have
to be repeated for this to become an embraced fact? If there
were no citizens of the United States going to Planned
Parenthood to receive these medical approved services, that we
approve as a Congress, there would be no reimbursement going to
Planned Parenthood. They would not receive any funds.
I just, for the life of me, sitting here today, I know my
colleagues are more intelligent than this, and it is exhausting
to hear just a philosophy of attack to just use information
that is totally incorrect, as if I keep saying it, some kind of
way it becomes factual.
My question. Ms. Richards, there seems to be this
continuous thought that if Planned Parenthood went away, that
there would be these other healthcare services for a million of
women because you went away. There is a suggestion that all of
these community health centers would just step in and fill up.
Sara Rosenbaum, a professor of health and law and policy at
George Washington, has worked with the community health centers
for years. And I quote, ``A claim that community health centers
readily can absorb the loss of Planned Parenthood is a gross
misrepresentation.''
I would ask you, Ms. Richards, can, in your experience in
health care, the perception that if you went away, it would be
totally absorbed, can you please respond to that?
Ms. Richards. Thanks, Congresswoman. Yes, I think this is a
really important point, and I know there has been a lot of
discussion.
First, just for the record, we see 2.7 million patients a
year; 78 percent of them are at 150 percent of poverty or
below. So these are a group of women and men and young people
who are often uninsured and certainly have less access to care.
I know there have been a lot of reports that have come out
since Congress has suggested eliminating access to Planned
Parenthood for patients. I know the CBO own study, the
Congressional Budget Office, estimated that 390,000 women would
lose care next year if women could no longer go to Planned
Parenthood.
And I think to some of the questions that have been raised,
it's really important for folks to understand, just as you
talked about how women actually get breast exams and breast
care in this country, in some areas we are the only safety net
family planning provider. And that is the care for most women,
and particularly young women, the care that they need is family
planning, it's access to their cancer screenings, and their
well-woman visits. In many areas there are long waits. Sixty
percent of our clinics will see folks the same day. In some
areas they won't take any more Medicaid patients, and Planned
Parenthood is the only entity.
Mrs. Lawrence. And it is true that the Medicare and the
targeted audience or group that use Planned Parenthood are
often those who are most at risk. African American, minority
women die at a higher level than any other population when it
comes to breast cancer, when it comes to actually dying from
having pelvic or cervical cancer. So we are actually giving
opportunities.
I want to interject or ask, Mr. Chairman, unanimous
consent, to enter a letter into the record from Latino
organizations that stated that they know for a fact in their
communities the community health centers could not absorb this.
And I just want to close because I only have a few
seconds----
Chairman Chaffetz. Without objection, so ordered.
Chairman Chaffetz. But the gentlewoman's time has expired.
Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you.
Chairman Chaffetz. Thank you.
We will now recognize the gentleman from Arizona, Mr.
Gosar.
Mr. Gosar. Mr. Chairman, I yield my time to the gentlewoman
from Utah, Mrs. Love.
Mrs. Love. Thank you.
I'm right here.
Ms. Richards. Thank you.
Mrs. Love. First of all, I want to say thank you for coming
and answering questions. I want to be very clear that there are
no gotcha questions here. I just want to be able to get as much
information as possible. I'm not here to try and change your
mind or change the minds of our colleagues. I'm just trying to
get as much information out to the public as we possibly can
because some of these funds are their taxpayer dollars, and I
think that they deserve to have some answers.
First of all, Ms. Richards, in the annual report, Planned
Parenthood's annual report, says that you are providing over
489,000 breast cancer screenings. And you have stated that none
of your clinics actually have the mammogram machines. How many
of your affiliates have those mammogram machines?
Ms. Richards. Well, our health centers are part of our
affiliates. We have more than 650 health centers. So affiliate
is simply the corporate structure for those health centers.
Mrs. Love. And how many of those have mammogram machines?
Ms. Richards. The affiliate isn't a health center. I said,
I think I spoke earlier, we do not have mammogram machines at
our health centers and we have never stated that we did.
Because as was mentioned earlier, for women who go for a breast
exam, just as I go for my annual, you get a breast exam, and if
you need a mammogram you're referred to a radiological clinic,
and that's what we do at Planned Parenthood every day.
Mrs. Love. Okay, so you refer them to radiological clinics.
Ms. Richards. Or whatever--we have partnerships with the
Komen Foundation. And a lot of different ways----
Mrs. Love. Okay.
Ms. Richards. There are a lot of different ways in which we
refer for mammograms.
Mrs. Love. That's what I want to know.
Okay. So how much does Planned Parenthood make from cancer
screenings? Do you know how much you make?
Ms. Richards. How much we make?
Mrs. Love. Yes, the revenues.
Ms. Richards. Well, for Federal--for Federal--so just
talking the Federal funding, we don't make money off of cancer
screenings.
Mrs. Love. Okay. That's great. How much--well, you don't
get anything from mammograms either. How much is made from
abortions? What's the revenue that comes in from abortions?
Ms. Richards. So let me just--you're going to have to bear
with me a minute so I can be responsive.
Mrs. Love. I only have a little bit of time, so if you
could respond as quickly as possible.
Ms. Richards. I will. There's 59----
Mrs. Love. Okay.
Ms. Richards. There are 59 affiliates. Each of them are
completely different, right, they all run their own operation.
And I can't tell you--I think this question was raised
earlier--I can't tell you----
Mrs. Love. You can't tell me how much you actually make
from abortions. You can't give that number. Okay----
Ms. Richards. The national office--just also so you know,
we do not provide health services at the national office. We
have provided information for all 59 affiliates, their annuals,
their audited financial statements.
Mrs. Love. I wasn't even asking about the affiliates. I'm
just asking about----
Ms. Richards. Well, that's where health services are
provided, so I think that's----
Mrs. Love. Okay. Okay. So you don't----
Ms. Richards. --that's relevant to your question.
Mrs. Love. Okay, but you don't have those numbers. All
you're saying is that the healthcare affiliates have these
numbers and you don't have them, so you don't know.
Ms. Richards. Certainly not----
Mrs. Love. So for the year ending June 30, 2014, according
to Planned Parenthood reports, $127.1 million in revenue over
expenses. From 2005 to 2013 Planned Parenthood reported a 53
percent reduction in cancer screenings and preventive services
and 42 percent reduction in breast exams and breast care, while
abortions have increased 24 percent.
Can you understand a little bit of the hesitancy in trying
to figure out why those numbers have gone down where abortions
have actually gone up?
Ms. Richards. Okay, so we're talking about two different--
I'm trying to--so we don't mix apples and oranges here. So
Federal funding pays--Medicaid funding and Title X pays for
very specific preventive care services, as we've discussed. And
Federal funding does not pay for abortion except for very
limited circumstances.
Mrs. Love. So what I'm trying to say is why would it be so
offensive if we actually took funding and put it into clinics
that actually provide--where those numbers are actually
increasing providing healthcare exams, providing mammograms----
Ms. Richards. We're providing----
Mrs. Love. --that actually have those?
Ms. Richards. The Medicaid reimbursements, if they are
going up, if the numbers are going up, that's because more
services are being provided. And as you know, many women now,
because of the Affordable Care Act and Medicaid expansion,
there are more patients on Medicaid that are coming to us for
health care.
So that's--all the reimbursements are directly related to
healthcare delivery services. We work--Planned Parenthood--you
were not here earlier--Planned Parenthood is just like any
other hospital or healthcare provider----
Mrs. Love. Okay. So--but you have also made it----
Ms. Richards. --that provides services to Medicaid
patients.
Mrs. Love. --you've also made it very clear that if Planned
Parenthood wasn't around, this would be very difficult for low-
income families. So what is the responsibility of hospitals and
other clinics that, you know, that you actually--that people
can actually go to? I mean----
Ms. Richards. Well, many of them----
Mrs. Love. --you can't say that Planned Parenthood is the
only place that's available.
Ms. Richards. No, but obviously it's a place that 2.7
million patients choose voluntarily to come to every year. And
I think what's important is that in a lot of areas of the
country they won't take more Medicaid patients.
Mrs. Love. But what is our job here? It's to provide as
many options as possible. So all I'm saying is that----
Ms. Richards. I would agree.
Mrs. Love. --there's no reason why we can't provide those
options elsewhere, where people can have their choice as to
where they go.
Ms. Richards. Exactly. Congresswoman, I think actually this
may be an area where you and I agree.
Mrs. Love. My time is up, but, Mr. Chairman, I would----
Ms. Richards. I would like a chance to answer this.
Mrs. Love. You did actually. You answered my questions.
Mr. Chairman, if you could help in getting some of the
information about how much, the numbers that I have asked for,
that would be really helpful.
Chairman Chaffetz. I appreciate it.
The gentleman from Arizona who yielded to you, his time has
expired.
I would ask unanimous consent to take--there are four pages
from the annual reports, and we'll have the documentation on
the reduction in the breast exams and breast care. And so
without objection, I'd like to enter that into the record.
No objection, so ordered.
Chairman Chaffetz. We now recognize the gentleman from
California, Mr. Lieu, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Lieu. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Richards, for your testimony and the
gracefulness in which you have answered the questions today. I
want to also thank you for running an organization that has
helped millions of women and men across America. And on behalf
of the majority of women and men in this great Nation, I want
to say thank you.
And having sat here for the last hour-and-a-half I feel
like I'm in some sort of bizarre alternate universe. I think
it's crazy we're having this hearing based on heavily edited
videos and misleading videos that actually show the exact
opposite of what was happening. And what was happening was that
Planned Parenthood was following the law.
I think it is also crazy that we're here when we have fetal
tissue research that is not only entirely legal, but has
bipartisan support. And I think it's insane that in my district
now, because of these misleading videos, women have in some
cases had to go through two sets of bomb-proof doors just to
access health care.
And I thank you for your courage, and I note the
cowardliness of the maker of these videos who was too scared to
come before to us testify.
So let's just come back to reality for a few minutes.
Mr. Lieu. Abortion is legal in the United States of
America. Isn't that correct, Ms. Richards?
Ms. Richards. It is correct.
Mr. Lieu. And we don't live in a theocracy. The law of the
land is not the Old Testament or the New Testament or the Koran
or the Torah. The law of the land is the Constitution of the
United States. Isn't that correct, Ms. Richards?
Ms. Richards. Correct.
Mr. Lieu. And abortion is a constitutional right. Isn't
that correct?
Ms. Richards. Correct.
Mr. Lieu. And Planned Parenthood allows women to access
that constitutional right. Isn't that correct?
Ms. Richards. Yes, we do.
Mr. Lieu. And none of that gets any Federal funding. Isn't
that correct?
Ms. Richards. That's correct, except in the very limited
circumstances allowed by Federal law.
Mr. Lieu. Thank you.
Now, there are multiple medical clinics across America that
also provide abortion services, correct?
Ms. Richards. I'm sorry. Could you repeat the----
Mr. Lieu. There are multiple medical clinics----
Ms. Richards. And hospitals.
Mr. Lieu. --and hospitals across America that provide
abortion services, correct?
Ms. Richards. Correct.
Mr. Lieu. And they also provide services that have Medicaid
reimbursement. Isn't that correct?
Ms. Richards. I believe that's correct, yes.
Mr. Lieu. And no one is saying, let's shut down medical
clinics and hospitals because they also happen to provide
abortion services. Isn't that correct?
Ms. Richards. I don't think that's been proposed.
Mr. Lieu. In fact, they're going right after Planned
Parenthood, even though you do the same thing as many of these
medical clinics, because you actually, like any organization,
have separate line items. That's not a new or novel concept,
correct?
Ms. Richards. Correct.
Mr. Lieu. Okay.
So let's talk about fetal tissue research. It has made
enormous, lifesaving changes for millions of Americans and
people across the world. Isn't that correct?
Ms. Richards. That's right.
Mr. Lieu. In fact, fetal tissue research has resulted
directly in the development of the polio vaccine, vaccines for
hepatitis A, rubella, chickenpox, shingles, and rabies.
Anyone in America that has had a family member or
themselves been affected by multiple sclerosis, ALS, and other
central nervous system diseases, you can thank fetal tissue
research for making advancements in that field.
If anyone has been affected by age-related macular
degeneration, by all sorts of cancer, by diabetes, by
cardiovascular disease, by immune system issues, and by
glaucoma, you can thank fetal tissue research for making
advancements in those areas.
It is crazy that we're here because the other side wants to
shut down government because Planned Parenthood was following
the law because fetal tissue research is something that's
helping lots of people, and now we want to shut down government
because we want to defund all of that. That doesn't make any
sense to me.
And let me, sort of, conclude now by asking you to respond
to, sort of, the question about why there has been a reduction
in cancer screenings. Isn't it true, it's because guidelines
have changed?
Ms. Richards. That's correct.
Mr. Lieu. They said, let's do less mammograms. And then, in
terms of Medicaid reimbursements, guidelines changed there too.
About pap smears, let's do lots of those, too. Isn't that
correct?
Ms. Richards. That's correct. And we always follow the best
science and the best medicine at Planned Parenthood.
Mr. Lieu. And then let me read a quick letter from one of
my constituents who saw that Planned Parenthood might get
defunded.
She said that she grew up in a small desert town, made some
poor choices, ditched school at age 15, starting having sex.
And she didn't want to end up pregnant like a lot of young
girls in my town, so she went to the one place that she knew
would help her, Planned Parenthood. They made her feel
comfortable. They gave her an exam, gave her birth control
pills. They told her that she had an STD, would need to take
antibiotics.
Ms. Richards. Yep.
Mr. Lieu. She says, without that, the STD could've made me
permanently infertile. But because of what Planned Parenthood
did, she corrected herself, graduated with straight A's, and is
now a medical doctor. And she thanks Planned Parenthood for
helping her and her family.
Ms. Richards. I'm so pleased to hear that. Thanks for
sharing that.
Mr. Lieu. I yield back.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
But I would also admonish all members on both sides, the
prescription of motivation is not something we generally allow
members to push on other members.
I will tell you, in response to what the gentleman said,
the producer of these videos was not invited to this hearing.
And part of the reason we didn't do that is we think--I think I
did the responsible thing--and you've heard Mr. Cummings in
support of this--is I issued a subpoena to get all the videos.
And the only reason that they have not been produced is that
there's a temporary restraining order by a court in California.
I would love to have the videos. But if we're going to
ferret out what the accusation is, you have to see all the
videos. And that's what we're trying to do. But there was never
a suggestion that this gentleman, Mr. Daleiden, was anything
but cooperative. He simply was not invited here, because
without the videos we can't have a good discussion about that.
Mr. Lieu. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the clarification.
Mr. Cummings. Mr. Chairman, let me just ask you this. With
this order coming out of California, are we going to continue
to try to get all of the videos?
You know, I just--I see how we have been aggressive with
regard to getting witnesses and trying to get documents. And
this is such a very important issue. And, as I've said to you
privately, I think, that what I'm concerned about is the
integrity of the process no matter what, no matter where people
end up on either end. At least I want--if these videos are
going to be even partially the foundation of what we're doing,
I think we need to have all of them. And we need to pursue them
just like we would pursue other items and information that we
need.
And I would just ask the chairman, are we going to continue
to try to pursue that? I mean----
Chairman Chaffetz. Absolutely. That's what we did, without
the support----
Mr. Cummings. And will continue to do.
Chairman Chaffetz. We will continue to do it. That's what
we did without the support of the minority, in this case. We
will continue to do that. But for this temporary restraining
order, I think we would actually have had them by the time that
we got here, but we did not.
We will continue to pursue them. We're working closely with
House legal counsel, who is now representing us, to try to make
that case to that court and to that client, where there is a
legitimate conflict.
Mr. Cummings. Would the gentleman yield just for 30
seconds?
Chairman Chaffetz. Sure.
Mr. Cummings. Let me make it very, very clear that--you've
now said it two or three times, and I want to make it clear. We
will join you in a subpoena to get every single tape, period--
no ands, no ifs, or buts--period. And I don't know where that's
coming from, but, as the ranking member of this committee, I'm
letting you know that, all right?
Chairman Chaffetz. I appreciate that. Thank you.
Mr. Cummings. All right.
Chairman Chaffetz. Thank you. Appreciate the clarification.
Now we'll recognize the gentleman from Tennessee, Mr.
DesJarlais, for 5 minutes.
Mr. DesJarlais. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And I would like to yield to the gentleman from Arizona,
Dr. Gosar.
Mr. Gosar. Well, I thank the gentleman.
Mr. Cummings, you made a comment earlier that I want to
address. The New York Times reported that the EPA unleashed a
major lobbying campaign to rally comments in support for its
new ``waters of the U.S.'' regulation. You earlier went off an
Lockheed Martin in regards to that application. I have to tell
you, the EPA also disregarded the anti-lobbying act and broke
the law.
If you actually believe in what you were talking and
preaching about, I'd hope that you would cosponsor my removal
of Ms. Gina McCarthy as the EPA Administrator.
Now back to those processes in here.
Ms. Richards--I'm up here. You're a CEO, right?
Ms. Richards. Yes, sir.
Mr. Gosar. So you do understand market penetration, right?
Ms. Richards. Well, I mean, I'm a nonprofit CEO, so----
Mr. Gosar. Well, no, but, I mean, you look at those
numbers. I mean, all CEOs are looking at, you know, how to
expand and profit. I mean, you're obviously----
Ms. Richards. We don't profit, so I don't look at how--I
don't actually look at how to profit. But we do, obviously,
look how to expand into areas particularly where there's unmet
need.
Mr. Gosar. Okay. I like that. So your market penetration in
Arizona is different than your market penetration in New York
State, would you say?
Ms. Richards. I'm sure it is.
Mr. Gosar. Yeah. You know, there's three in Arizona, and
there's quite a few more in New York. And there's a pretty good
web of preventative services.
So I kind of want to go back. In your annual report, the
report said----
Ms. Richards. Actually----
Mr. Gosar. --$117.63 million in excess revenues for the
fiscal year of 2013-2014. That number has jumped $18.5 million
from its report in 2009-2010.
I'd like you to tell me how you got the growth of those
funds, why we're seeing such a growth in those--that profit.
Ms. Richards. Well, we--it's not profit. So let me just be
really clear just in terms of terminology. It's not profit.
Mr. Gosar. Okay.
Ms. Richards. Actually, it's revenue that we use for
services. So one example----
Mr. Gosar. So would we agree that it's excesses of revenue
over expenses?
Ms. Richards. Correct.
Mr. Gosar. Okay.
Ms. Richards. It's----
Mr. Gosar. So how do you explain that?
Ms. Richards. Right.
Mr. Gosar. I want you to explain that.
Ms. Richards. It's from fundraising. That's what I spend a
lot of my time doing.
And so there are areas of the country where we want to
expand, to your question about if you only have one health
center in a State and you think that there is more need. So we
are involved currently in raising money and spending it.
Mr. Gosar. Okay. I think----
Ms. Richards. We just opened a new health center in----
Mr. Gosar. --you gave me a great answer.
Ms. Richards. I could give you several examples.
Mr. Gosar. Well, you fundraise. And I think that--so----
Ms. Richards. But we fundraise specifically to expand
services.
Mr. Gosar. I understand that.
Ms. Richards. Yeah.
Mr. Gosar. I understand that. I understand that.
Ms. Richards. Okay.
Mr. Gosar. So what are you looking to report in 2014?
Ms. Richards. I'm sorry, what's that?
Mr. Gosar. So what's that number in 2014?
Ms. Richards. I don't have all the--I mean, we've
provided----
Mr. Gosar. Okay. So I thought----
Ms. Richards. --I'm sorry--thousands of pages of documents.
Mr. Gosar. It's actually going up. It's actually going up
to $127 million in regards to--so there's an escalating aspect.
So you're a pretty good CEO. So you're looking at excess
revenues over expenses. So that's pretty good.
I'm having trouble in all this, in regards to the
fundraising application, particularly when I look at these
numbers: the 80-percent reduction in prenatal care services,
the 57-percent reduction in cancer screenings preventative
services, the 45-percent reduction in breast exams, on and on
and on and on.
And, by the way, I was a dentist, so I do understand
Medicaid reimbursement rates. They don't pay, right?
Ms. Richards. Correct.
Mr. Gosar. Okay. So----
Ms. Richards. Well, it depends on the State.
Mr. Gosar. You're lucky--you're lucky if you get reimbursed
your costs.
Ms. Richards. Well, and, actually, I would say, since you
do understand Medicaid, as you know, it varies in all 50
States. And so we do raise money over expenses in order to
supplement the cost of----
Mr. Gosar. I understand.
Ms. Richards. --Medicaid services.
Mr. Gosar. So let me ask you a question. And with a
mediator, what have you been able to facilitate for a lump cost
for the price of contraceptives? Is there a unit price that
you've been able to lower down, to get a price fixed? Can you
give me that number?
Ms. Richards. I don't--no, I actually don't. And I don't--
--
Mr. Gosar. It's been reported----
Ms. Richards. I don't do that.
Mr. Gosar. It's been reported by those numbers that it's
about $3 that you're paying for the average contraceptive.
Ms. Richards. Actually, I really--I don't want to----
Mr. Gosar. So----
Ms. Richards. It's very much all over the map, as you know,
and it depends on what----
Mr. Gosar. On the average.
Ms. Richards. It's not--I really----
Mr. Gosar. Well----
Ms. Richards. Actually, I disagree with you. I don't think
that fact is correct.
Mr. Gosar. --I mean, this is a very salient point, because
this is a profit center. Because what ends up happening, you're
reimbursed by the Federal Government in Medicaid at $35, right?
Ms. Richards. It's----
Mr. Gosar. So if we're truly looking at mediation and
spreading the wealth of the pharmaceuticals, when we get a
break, we ought to pass it on. Don't you agree?
Ms. Richards. Well, as you know----
Mr. Gosar. No. Don't you agree? Because that facilitates
more services, does it not, Ms. Richards?
Ms. Richards. Our entire focus is on serving as many
patients as we can, and so your example----
Mr. Gosar. That is not exactly true, because what you've
done now, and the reason I can show this is, is you've narrowed
the focus. What we end up having is, there's very few primary
care docs out there because they can't afford to stay in
practice. So what you've done is narrowed the scope of the
practice, so where there's profit centers----
Ms. Richards. I----
Mr. Gosar. No?
Ms. Richards. I disagree.
Mr. Gosar. This is my time. This is my time, so don't
interrupt it.
And so, from that standpoint, what you've done is narrow
that focus so that you're profiting off death. Because the
numbers--where you're making that profit center is actually off
abortions. And that's appalling to me.
So thank you very much.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
We'll now recognize the gentlewoman from New Jersey, Ms.
Watson Coleman, for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Watson Coleman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Ms. Richards, for enduring--enduring what I
consider to be a very offensive approach on the part of my
colleagues on the other side of the aisle as they've badgered
you with questions, as they've used their rhetoric to suggest
in a questionable way that they're seeking information and at
the same time not giving you a chance to answer the questions.
I'm actually a little confused of why we're here. Are we
here because of these videos and there's a questionability
about Planned Parenthood doing something that's illegal as it
related to the collection of fetal tissue? Are we here simply
because the ideological right wing of this Republican
Conference here in Congress, the dysfunction has manifested
simply so anti-woman's-right-to-choose that they would bring
you here for a fourth hearing? Or are we here because somebody
believes that Planned Parenthood doesn't need Federal
reimbursement for the health care that it gives?
For whatever reason, for whatever one of those reasons,
those are specious reasons. And for my colleagues on the other
side of the aisle to act like they don't understand and to
suggest that they're ill-informed, if they are ill-informed,
it's because they choose to be.
I couldn't hardly get into this room today, with all of the
people on the outside in the hallways that were trying to get
in here to be supportive of Planned Parenthood, because we know
and recognize the impact that Planned Parenthood has had on
healthy lives--not just women's lives but including men's
lives.
We know in New Jersey, in my State, where this Governor,
Chris Christie, spent so much of his leverage defunding Planned
Parenthood and then suggesting that the federally qualified
healthcare centers would be able to pick up the slack, they
came in and testified that they couldn't possibly accommodate
all of the deficiencies that would occur without Planned
Parenthood. We know that--the work that you do.
So I just want to do a couple things, and I want to do them
quickly.
I want to acknowledge all the young women and men in the
overflow room.
I want to talk to you a little about Mr. ``Daleiden'' or
``Daleiden'' or whatever his name is, but the mystery man who's
spent so much of his life trying to discredit Planned
Parenthood.
You all had a forensic report done----
Ms. Richards. Correct.
Mrs. Watson Coleman. --on those videos.
Ms. Richards. Correct.
Mrs. Watson Coleman. And that forensic report revealed that
there were so many discrepancies, that there were so many
inaccuracies, and that it would be impossible to characterize
the extent to which CMP's undisclosed edits and cuts distort
the meaning of the encounters the videos purport to document.
However, the manipulation of the videos does not mean they have
no evidentiary value in legal context and cannot be relied
upon.
I want to put that report into the record. And I am asking
unanimous consent to accept this forensic report. Because
somewhere along the line, we ought to be getting part of the
other story.
Mr. Chairman?
Chairman Chaffetz. Before I rule on that, I'd place a
temporary objection in place. Let me look at the report prior
to entering it into the record.
Mrs. Watson Coleman. Well, then, I guess I should also
register my temporary objection to the fact that we have one
witness here and we haven't even tried to get Mr. Daleiden here
or anyone else who would be--who we would be able to question
with regard to the accuracy of all the allegations that we are
moving on right now.
And I also want to say, before I give you an opportunity to
answer any question that was left out there in the universe
hovering over us so that you can put things that you think that
are on--on the record, that this is another very poor
illustration of our deflecting our attention away from the work
that the people have elected us to do.
We need to have an Export-Import Bank that creates jobs. We
need to have an infrastructure program that creates jobs. We
need to be reauthorizing the appropriate aspects of the Voting
Rights Act.
We've got so much good work to do, but, instead, what do we
do? We harp on a woman's right to make choices that are hers to
make. And that, to me, is very offensive.
And, with that, Ms. Richards, I would like to yield to you
the balance of my time to answer any unanswered question that
you might have.
Thank you.
Ms. Richards. Thank you so much, Congresswoman.
Well, I would mention, too, to the chairman that I believe
we've actually given the forensic report already to you and
provided that a while back. But we can follow up if there's any
questions.
I appreciate your comments. I think we have now had
either--today, the 14th vote will be on restricting women's
access to health care in this country.
And I think, going back to one of the questions on the
other side, this is about women's choice to me. This isn't
about Planned Parenthood. It's about allowing women in this
country and particularly women of low income or who live in
areas that are underserved by other healthcare providers, it's
allowing them to make their own decision about their
pregnancies, about their health care, and about where they get
services.
And many women come to us even if they have other options
because, frankly, we are the best at women's health. And I
think they deserve the right to make their own decisions about
where they access the doctor and clinicians of their choice.
Mrs. Watson Coleman. Thank you.
Reclaiming the last 25 seconds of my time, it seems to me
to be----
Chairman Chaffetz. No. The gentlewoman's time has more than
expired.
Mrs. Watson Coleman. Oh, I'm so sorry. Would you indulge me
for 10 seconds?
Chairman Chaffetz. We really--if I do that, I've got to do
it both. I've got to keep going.
Mrs. Watson Coleman. You have done it, Mr. Chairman. With
all due respect, Mr. Chairman, you have done it.
Chairman Chaffetz. Ten seconds.
Mrs. Watson Coleman. It just seems to me that this is not
the appropriate time to be making decisions about defunding
Planned Parenthood, when we don't even know why we want to do
it.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Chaffetz. Thank you.
So the gentlewoman had made--asked unanimous consent to
enter into this--into the record this GPS Fusion analysis.
I'd also like to add on to that, if I could, the digital
forensic analysis report delivered to Alliance Defending
Freedom, prepared by Coalfire Systems.
I'd ask unanimous consent that both of these be entered
into the record.
Without objection, so ordered.
Chairman Chaffetz. We'll now recognize the gentleman from
Texas, Mr. Farenthold, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Farenthold. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And I might want to talk a little bit about one of the
reasons we need to take a closer look at the funding of Planned
Parenthood, not just as a result of these videos but as a
result of some financial issues that are coming up.
As president of Planned Parenthood, you're aware, of
course, that Planned Parenthood of the Gulf Coast--that's the
Houston area--Planned Parenthood last year paid a $4.3 million
settlement for false claims made to Medicaid in the Texas
Women's Health Care Program. Is that not correct?
Ms. Richards. That's correct.
Mr. Farenthold. And you're also aware that the Obama
administration's Department of Justice contended that Planned
Parenthood had submitted false claims against the women's
health program?
Ms. Richards. I'm not aware of that.
I do know that we've been the target of the same group that
has filed many, many, many lawsuits. And that's the one area I
know that was settled in order for the----
Mr. Farenthold. Well, let me read a little bit from the
settlement. It's--the United States contends that Planned
Parenthood of the Gulf Coast submitted false claims and made
false statements to the United States in conjunction with
claims submitted to the United States.
And just, Mr. Chairman, without objection, I would like to
have this settlement agreement entered into the record.
Chairman Chaffetz. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Farenthold. All right.
So, as a consequence, Planned Parenthood paid $4.3 million
to settle those claims just 2 years ago.
Are you aware that, this spring, another audit by HHS
Office of the Inspector General concluded that Planned
Parenthood--it overbilled taxpayers another $128,028 under
Medicaid in the Texas women's health program?
Ms. Richards. I'm not aware of what you're referring to.
I'm happy to look at it.
Mr. Farenthold. Thank you.
And are you aware that the Planned Parenthood affiliate in
El Paso, just a few years before, had failed to reimburse its
subcontractors for roughly half a million dollars in claims?
Ms. Richards. I'm not aware of that. And that organization
doesn't exist and hasn't for years.
Mr. Farenthold. Okay.
Ms. Richards. But I'm happy to look at your report.
Mr. Farenthold. And, actually, that is another issue I
would like to bring up. One of the things that we're talking
about today is taking some of the money that's going to Planned
Parenthood and sending it to community health centers.
Do you know how many facilities in Texas you have?
Ms. Richards. I don't, but I can certainly--actually, bear
with me 1 minute. I'll just make sure I give you the right
number.
Now, this may be--I know we just opened one in Plano. So I
think we have 38 health centers.
Mr. Farenthold. Thirty-eight. And there----
Ms. Richards. It may be 39 now. I'm not sure.
Mr. Farenthold. And so we've got 732 community health
centers. Admittedly, some of those focus on pediatrics or men's
health care or other specialties. But wouldn't you admit there
are substantially more facilities, federally qualified
facilities, that offer women's health care than there are
Planned Parenthood facilities in Texas?
Ms. Richards. Well, actually, I think, Congressman, one of
the big problems in Texas is there has actually been a drop in
access to women for health care, and particularly after Planned
Parenthood was, for political reasons I believe, taken out of
the women's health program. We had a 25-percent drop in women's
access to basic preventive care, and particularly in some areas
like the Rio Grande border that are vastly underserved.
Mr. Farenthold. I think we have three or four facilities
down in the Rio Grande Valley, if I'm not mistaken.
I also promised to ask you a couple of questions that some
constituents and folks on social media asked me to ask, so I'd
like to use my last minute and a half to do that.
Warren wanted me to ask you, what efforts and what steps
does Planned Parenthood take to guarantee their providers
follow State laws requiring reporting of child sex abuse?
Ms. Richards. We have very rigorous standards we apply. The
health and wellbeing of our patients is our number-one concern,
and we certainly comply with all State and Federal laws. And if
there is ever an issue, we take swift action.
Mr. Farenthold. Okay.
And Peg and Allison both expressed a concern about the same
thing the chairman did when he began this questioning about the
activities of the 501(c)(4) organization that Planned
Parenthood has helped fund, you've helped manage, and funds
have been transferred into for lobbying in almost exclusively
Democrat political campaigns.
One of my concerns is, with your purported goal of making
access to women's health care more available, isn't the money
that you are diverting to a lobbying effort in politics money
that could better be spent actually delivering health care to
women?
Ms. Richards. Well, Congressman, as you know, in the State
of Texas, the number of laws that the State legislature has
passed to try to restrict women's access to almost every kind
of health care requires not only the Planned Parenthood Action
Fund but other organizations to lobby extensively to try to
protect----
Mr. Farenthold. And let me just note----
Ms. Richards. --particularly low-income women.
Mr. Farenthold. --one more--you also spoke earlier about
how you have doctors that are providing women's health care,
and those doctors are funded by the taxpayer money under Title
X or other reimbursement.
Are some of those doctors also providing abortion? Would
you be able to afford to have those doctors and keep them
entirely busy but for the Federal funds coming in?
Ms. Richards. I'm not sure exactly--that's a kind of long,
complicated question, so I want to be responsive.
Obviously, Federal funds--the most important thing, I
think, out of all of that is Federal funds do not pay for
abortions at all, except in very limited circumstances of when
the woman has been raped, has been the victim of incest, or
when her life is endangered.
Mr. Farenthold. And I would contend, even though not
directly spent, they help facilitate it. And that's one of the
reasons I support defunding.
I see I'm out of time. I appreciate it. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
Before I recognize Mr. DeSaulnier from California, after he
does his questioning, we're going to do a brief 4- to 5-minute
break, sort of a humanitarian break, for a moment. And then we
will continue--continue on until we get the chance for the rest
of the panel.
For those in the audience, I suggest remaining in your
seats if you want to continue to witness the hearing.
For those members who have yet to ask questions, hang
tight.
But we'll go to Mr. DeSaulnier for 5 minutes, and then
we'll take a very brief break, and then we'll resume.
Mr. DeSaulnier, you are now recognized.
Mr. DesJarlais. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't know quite
how to take that break after my questioning. Usually it's
better to take a break before I ask questions.
Anyways, I want to thank you, Ms. Richards, for being here,
the way you've carried yourself through this hearing and
through this recent history and the wonderful work that your
organization does.
And I want to, sort of--two lines of questioning: one, the
latter part, very specific on the bipartisan history of support
for fetal tissue research.
But the first part is just, in my experience in State
government in California and then local government,
particularly in local government--and in California, the
counties provide health care for disadvantaged communities,
low-income communities--it was always my experience that the
clients chose Planned Parenthood, when they had the
opportunity, because they wanted to, whether they were a
private payer or not. And we developed relationships between
the county health system and you because the clients clearly
preferred you, at least in our community.
So, in the spirit of local control, it seems to me within
the Federal guidance you competed very well in the open
marketplace, whether it was private pay or reimbursed clients.
Is that not true?
Ms. Richards. Well, I appreciate that. And, absolutely,
providing high-quality, affordable health care is our entire
mission. And so we are pleased that many women and men--now we
have about 10 percent of our patients are men--they choose
Planned Parenthood over other healthcare providers. We believe
we provide an excellent service that's affordable, and we do a
lot of outreach in the community to provide education, as well.
Mr. DesJarlais. Yeah. And that was my experience, was that
in local government you were more efficient and effective,
certainly, than, with all due respect to my friends in the
county system, than the county system.
So, with my colleagues, this is one of those instances
where it's a little bit odd listening here. And without being
judgmental, it reminds me of the old legal expression, ``When
the law is with you, pound the law; when it's not, you pound
the table.'' And that's just my perspective.
Having said all that, on the specific issue of bipartisan
historical support for fetal tissue research, 1988--and maybe
you could just respond after I go through a series of these
observations if this is correct or not and if you have any
other comments.
So, in 1988, there was a panel called the Human Fetal
Tissue Transplantation Research Panel. And that panel was
established under President Reagan; the chairman was a
Republican. The panel came together and studied the science
behind fetal tissue research, and they issued this conclusion,
and I quote: It was acceptable public policy to support
transplant research with fetal tissue.
Now, just to be clear, that was a Republican chair of a
panel established under President Reagan. Is that accurate?
Ms. Richards. That's correct. And, again, I've now just
learned more about the history, but it was a very--it was a
committee that had both supporters of abortion rights,
opponents of abortion rights. It was a very bipartisan effort
to come to what seems like a very good conclusion that was
passed overwhelmingly by the United States Senate.
Mr. DesJarlais. Right. And this panel issued its report.
Congress passed, after the report, in consulting with the
report, passed the NIH Revitalization Act of 1993, and that law
set forth the rules of how fetal tissue research is done in
this country.
That law, again, was passed with Republican and Democratic
support. That's correct, isn't it?
Ms. Richards. That's correct.
Mr. DesJarlais. So the bipartisan line is that, for
decades, fetal tissue research has had significant bipartisan
support. One of the reasons this research has had such strong
support--and Mr. Lieu alluded to this--is because it helps
millions of people.
Recently, the New England Journal of Medicine published an
article, and its observations in this regard were, and I quote:
``Virtually every person in this country has benefited from
research using fetal tissue. Every child who's been spared the
risks and misery of chickenpox, rubella, or polio can thank the
Nobel Prize recipients and other scientists who used such
tissue in research yielding the vaccines that protect us.''
Would you agree with that?
Ms. Richards. That's correct. I think probably everyone in
this room has benefited in some way.
Mr. DesJarlais. So, just in conclusion, again, thank you
for the work you do.
And, Mr. Chairman, while I appreciate your initial
comments, particularly as we evaluate, as always, the best and
most efficient use of taxpayers' money, at least from my
perspective and my opinion, both from a local level, with 14
years of overseeing a relationship in the Bay area with
affiliates there--at least at that level, we did our due
diligence, and this was the most effective and efficient way of
investing in our clients' needs.
So, with that, I'll yield back.
Mr. Cummings. Would the gentleman yield?
Ms. Richards. Glad to hear it. Thank you.
Mr. Cummings. Would the gentleman yield?
Mr. DesJarlais. Yes.
Mr. Cummings. Just one quick question, Ms. Richards. What
do you like most about your job?
Ms. Richards. What do I like most about my job?
Mr. Cummings. Yeah.
Ms. Richards. It's getting to see the patients that we
serve every day and the young people who are, frankly, going to
have, I think, more opportunities than we ever did. It's great.
Mr. Cummings. Thank you.
Chairman Chaffetz. The gentleman's time has expired.
As I noticed prior, we are going to recess for roughly 5
minutes, but we intend to start back up again at 12:35. We
stand in recess till then.
[Recess.]
Chairman Chaffetz. The committee will come to order.
The next person to be recognized is the gentleman from
North Carolina, Mr. Meadows, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Meadows. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Richards, thank you for your testimony.
I'm going to try to take the emotion out of it and stick
strictly to the numbers. Earlier, you said you need to consider
the source, so everything that I'll be quoting comes from
Planned Parenthood.
It is my understanding that 3 percent, according to your
Web site and your testimony today, 3 percent of the services
that Planned Parenthood offers are abortion services. Is that
correct?
Ms. Richards. Three percent of----
Mr. Meadows. Of your total services, 3 percent.
Ms. Richards. Sorry, my mic wasn't on.
Three percent of the services delivered--I mean, of the
total services.
Mr. Meadows. But yet you say that you don't have the total
amount of money--you can't give this committee the total amount
of money that you make or receive for abortions. Is that
correct?
Ms. Richards. It's because the national office doesn't, as
you know--or may not know--but the national office doesn't
provide healthcare services. Fifty-nine affiliates provide a
variety of healthcare services, so that would be--every single
organization would be different.
Mr. Meadows. But your affiliates gather that information,
so you would have access to that.
Ms. Richards. Well, I'm sure they have it. I don't have it
myself.
Mr. Meadows. Okay. But how do you come up with the 3
percent? So let me----
Ms. Richards. That's the number of services----
Mr. Meadows. Let me go----
Ms. Richards. Because we----
Mr. Meadows. Let me ask the question.
2.7 million women and men are served by Planned Parenthood,
according to your testimony. Is that correct?
Ms. Richards. That's correct.
Mr. Meadows. 2.7.
Ms. Richards. That's correct.
Mr. Meadows. Annually, you provide, according to your
report, 327,000-plus abortions last year, according to your
annual report.
I do the math, 2.7 million people, 327,000 abortions, that
comes up to 12 percent. So how do you get 3 percent? And these
are your numbers. Why is it not 12 percent?
Ms. Richards. Because people come to us for--some people
come to us more than once, and they come to us for different
services. And some people come to us and they need a pap
smear----
Mr. Meadows. All right. Well----
Ms. Richards. --they need a variety of services.
Mr. Meadows. --let's go on a little bit further, because
I'm having a real trouble coming to this.
And if you would put up the graph on--this is a tax return
from one of your affiliates in Rochester-Syracuse region. If
you could read for me line 2B. What does that say? What is the
designation there?
Ms. Richards. ``Pregnancy termination.''
Mr. Meadows. Okay.
Ms. Richards. But----
Mr. Meadows. And the dollar amount next to ``pregnancy
termination'' there is how much?
Ms. Richards. It--again, I don't--I've never seen this
before, so I'm simply reading what you're asking me to read.
$1,424,275, I'm assuming.
Mr. Meadows. All right. So $1,424,000 for pregnancy
termination, according to your affiliate's tax return.
Ms. Richards. One affiliate, correct.
Mr. Meadows. Okay. So----
Ms. Richards. I mean----
Mr. Meadows. --wouldn't you have tax returns for all your
affiliates, where we could get this information?
Ms. Richards. Well, I know that we have provided----
Mr. Meadows. Okay. Because here's my concern. If you take
the number, that $1.4 million, and divide it into the total
revenue of a little over $5 million, that would indicate
revenues of almost 28 percent for abortions. So what is the----
Ms. Richards. Well, I think you're mixing services and
revenue. Because, obviously, above the above line says,
``Family planning, $3,718,474.''
Mr. Meadows. But wouldn't you think the 3 percent is a
little bit misleading----
Ms. Richards. No. Actually, we have----
Mr. Meadows. --if 28 percent----
Ms. Richards. We calculate--I mean, we are----
Mr. Meadows. Well----
Ms. Richards. I'd say we are the most highly regulated
organization probably in this country, and we----
Mr. Meadows. Well, I would disagree with that, but let me
ask you----
Ms. Richards. But we're very transparent about our numbers.
Mr. Meadows. I've got this for one of your affiliates. Will
you provide this same kind of documentation for all your
affiliates to this committee?
Ms. Richards. I believe we actually already have.
Mr. Meadows. No, you haven't.
Ms. Richards. Well, I'm happy to speak to the chairman,
because we have--I believe we----
Mr. Meadows. This is the only one that had it. Will you
today, yes or no, provide this for all your affiliates?
Ms. Richards. We have produced all 990--okay, well, we just
have a disagreement of opinion, and I'm happy to talk to the
chairman----
Mr. Meadows. Well, it's not a disagreement. Will you
provide the number of----
Ms. Richards. We have already provided the 990s for all of
our affiliates, and so that's----
Mr. Meadows. But they didn't outline it like this.
Ms. Richards. Well, maybe----
Mr. Meadows. So are you saying that you don't keep track of
it?
Ms. Richards. You said that. I did not say that.
Mr. Meadows. No, I'm asking you. Do you keep track of it?
Ms. Richards. Every single affiliate in Planned Parenthood
meets with all the laws and regulations, and they file their
990s, and we provide----
Mr. Meadows. That's a great answer to a question I did not
ask.
Ms. Richards. We've provided----
Mr. Meadows. Would you provide it to this committee?
Ms. Richards. I don't exactly know what ``it'' is, since
I've said to you----
Mr. Meadows. Okay. Well, I'll tell you what it is.
Ms. Richards. --repeatedly we've provided the 990s----
Mr. Meadows. It's the revenue that you, Planned Parenthood,
derives from abortions.
Ms. Richards. And I have said to you, we have provided--and
we have been extremely cooperative with this committee and the
other three committees, and we have provided all the 990s, all
the audit and annual statements of our affiliates. And if
there's anything after--I'm happy to talk to the staff here
about what else is needed that we're not providing. Because I
really believe we have gone above and beyond in providing
everything that's been requested of us.
Mr. Meadows. Okay. My time has expired. I'll yield back,
Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Chairman Chaffetz. Thank you.
We'll now recognize the gentleman from Pennsylvania, Mr.
Boyle, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Boyle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And I also want to thank Ms. Richards for the manner in
which you have conducted yourself today.
There was one answer you've given that surprised me, when
Ranking Member Cummings asked what the favorite part of your
job was. I assumed you were going to say sitting here for 3
hours answering these questions from Members of Congress.
But I do want to focus--a couple of these statistics have
been cited before; a couple have not. But I don't think they've
strongly led to a very important point, and that would be the
consequences of the legislative action that we're proposing. So
let me just briefly go through them.
As has been cited, there are approximately--actually,
exactly 2.7 million women and men that Planned Parenthood see
every year, correct?
Ms. Richards. Correct.
Mr. Boyle. And, of that, 1.5 million of those patients
receive services through Title X, the Nation's family planning
program, right?
Ms. Richards. Well, I think that--and I'm not--let me make
sure that I--I want to make sure I answer you correctly.
About 1.6 million of our patients are either--come to us
through some Federal program, either Title X or the Medicaid
program. But a number of them are Title X--yes, Title X
recipients.
Mr. Boyle. Well, contraceptive services at Title X centers
annually prevent 1.2 million unintended pregnancies, which
would result, significantly, in 590,000 unplanned births,
400,000 abortions, and 190,000 miscarriages.
So, in a country with approximately a million abortions a
year, what we're talking about is, without such Title X
services, the services that Planned Parenthood provides and
clearly constitutes the majority of your work, the number of
abortions each year in the U.S. would be approximately 40
percent higher.
I think the consequences of what we're talking about
haven't fully been laid out, not just in terms of the cancer
screenings and the treatment of STDs, but also, ironically, in
what would be inevitably an increase in the number of
unintended pregnancies and abortions.
Ms. Richards. That's correct.
And it's interesting, because right now there is such
exciting research happening with better contraceptives. Young
women now can get long-acting, reversible contraceptives. They
don't even--I know--I've been questioned about why in some
cases we have fewer visits in some areas, and one of the
exciting things is now you actually sometimes don't have to
come back to Planned Parenthood every month to get birth
control pills because we can provide them for 6 months or you
can get a longer-acting method.
And in the States that have really pioneered this work to
provide women any birth control, we're seeing dramatic drops in
both unintended-pregnancy rate and abortion rates.
Mr. Boyle. I also just--and, by the way, I think that's
something that we can all celebrate. And maybe the focus should
be more on how best to provide women the health care they need,
and that actually this is something where we can build common
ground.
I did also want to point out--and I think you've cited this
before, and it's only been mentioned once in these 3 hours.
According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, if
this legislation goes through, 390,000 women would lose their
access to health care.
Ms. Richards. That's correct.
Mr. Boyle. Where else could they turn?
Ms. Richards. Well, I think that's the difficulty in that--
you're right. I appreciate you bringing back up the CBO study
because it's really important.
As I said earlier, there are some areas of the country
where we are the only safety-net family planning provider.
There's other areas where they--the Medicaid folks who are
taking Medicaid patients won't take any more. Because, as has
been discussed by everyone, Medicaid patients--Medicaid
payments don't necessarily pay for services.
But the other thing I'd like to just emphasize is that
there are women and young people that choose Planned Parenthood
even though they have other options because we provide very
high-quality health care, particularly family planning services
that they may not be able to get anywhere else, without
judgment and without shame.
Mr. Boyle. Per one of the points you were making in terms
of the population that Planned Parenthood serves, the statistic
I have and I think that you've cited is that at least 78
percent of Planned Parenthood's healthcare patients have
incomes of 150 percent of the income--of the poverty level or
less.
Ms. Richards. That's correct. That's correct.
Mr. Boyle. So it's pretty clear we're talking about people
who don't have a great deal of options----
Ms. Richards. Right.
Mr. Boyle. --in anything, given their income.
Ms. Richards. Well, and, to me, that is the point, is that
I believe low-income women in this country should have all the
same options to have high-quality, affordable health care as
every other woman.
Mr. Boyle. Thank you.
And with 11 seconds left, I'll yield back.
Ms. Richards. Thank you.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
We'll now recognize the gentleman from Florida, Mr.
DeSantis, for 5 minutes.
Mr. DeSantis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Richards, if a child survives an abortion attempt,
should it be given nourishment and medical care?
Ms. Richards. I've never heard of such a circumstance
happening. I----
Mr. DeSantis. Really?
Ms. Richards. Yes. I mean, I--certainly----
Mr. DeSantis. So, if it did happen, you would say it
would----
Ms. Richards. Well, I can say----
Mr. DeSantis. --be entitled to it or not?
Ms. Richards. --at Planned Parenthood, I'm aware of no
instance where--you know, we don't provide abortions after
viability, so--but, certainly, in my experience at Planned
Parenthood, we haven't ever had that kind of circumstance.
Mr. DeSantis. But you would say that there would be--
medical care would be in order, at that point? Forget about
Planned Parenthood, just generally.
Ms. Richards. Well, I'd say--I mean, again, I want to be
responsible for Planned Parenthood and what we do there.
Certainly, in this situation--which, again, has never occurred
that I know of--of a baby born, that baby should, as a mother
should, get appropriate medical care from the physician----
Mr. DeSantis. Now, have you watched----
Ms. Richards. --and would.
Mr. DeSantis. Have you watched all the videos released by
the Center for Medical Progress?
Ms. Richards. I haven't watched the multi-hour, edited
videos, but I have read all of the written transcripts----
Mr. DeSantis. So the ones that are on YouTube, you haven't
watched those? I know there have been a series of----
Ms. Richards. Well, there have been, like, hours and hours
and hours. So I haven't--I mean, I'll just--I did read through
all the--and I've watched many of the videos, and I've read
through all the transcripts that have be provided.
Again, I would say it's important that--my position is, I
would like to see all of the videos that are not edited----
Mr. DeSantis. No, I understand.
Ms. Richards. --and those haven't been provided.
Mr. DeSantis. What about--there was one specific one that
there was a technician, Holly O'Donnell, that she was
describing harvesting the brain of a late-term boy. She said
she wasn't sure if the baby was alive since his heart was still
beating and that she harvested the brain by cutting his head
open, starting with the chin.
Do you recall that?
Ms. Richards. That woman does not work for Planned
Parenthood, so I can't really speak to anything that she said.
I'm not responsible for her.
Mr. DeSantis. Do you deny that her description of what
happened is something that does occur in Planned Parenthood
clinics----
Ms. Richards. I have never---
Mr. DeSantis. --or its affiliates?
Ms. Richards. There is nothing that she has ever described
that I could attest has ever happened. And I----
Mr. DeSantis. So you can categorically testify to that,
then?
Ms. Richards. Categorically testify to what? Because I want
to be very careful what you're asking.
Mr. DeSantis. That what she described is not something----
Ms. Richards. Well, I don't remember that particular video
of Holly O'Donnell, but I will tell you she has never worked at
Planned Parenthood, and I----
Mr. DeSantis. She was a technician for StemExpress. But I
think it was something that was very, very troubling, to sit
there and read that--or to sit there and watch that video.
But let me ask you this. Do you admit that Planned
Parenthood or its affiliates harvest and sell fetal body parts
for profit?
Ms. Richards. We are very clear at Planned Parenthood. We
have a very clear policy on fetal tissue donation. It's done
with the full consent of the patient. And, as I said earlier in
my statements, it is only currently done in fewer than 1
percent of Planned Parenthood health centers and in one----
Mr. DeSantis. But no profit.
Ms. Richards. --and in one--excuse me--and their one
affiliate in Washington State that does not receive any
reimbursement for their costs. And there's only one other one,
which is in California. And they have assured us that, whatever
reimbursement they receive, it is less than what the costs are
for providing fetal tissue to that organization.
Mr. DeSantis. If that's the case, then the video with Dr.
Gatter negotiating over the price of the parts--if there's no
profit being made, then why would you be negotiating over how
much the parts are going to be sold for?
Ms. Richards. Well, with respect, I completely disagree
with your characterization of that. And that is why I read all
of the transcripts, the full, not these edited, sensationalized
videos. And what I read----
Mr. DeSantis. Well, there was a----
Ms. Richards. Because we take this very seriously. I read
over and over----
Mr. DeSantis. There's a negotiation----
Ms. Richards. Over and over and----
Mr. DeSantis. I understand how you are going to----
Ms. Richards. I just disagree with your characterization.
Mr. DeSantis. And that's fine, and people can judge for
what it is.
Let me ask you this. Do you deny that Planned Parenthood
and/or its affiliates will alter abortion procedures in order
to better harvest fetal body parts?
Ms. Richards. We have a very clear policy, which I'm happy
to read to you, about how we allow patients to make fetal
tissue donations. Would you like me to----
Mr. DeSantis. So, since the release of the videos, have you
or the Planned Parenthood Federation issued any updated
guidance to the companies to whom you provide fetal tissue
regarding the sale of fetal body parts for profit and/or the
manipulation of abortion procedures?
Ms. Richards. Well, I just--there's no way to answer that
because I disagree with your formulation. We allow women
voluntarily----
Mr. DeSantis. Let me put it this way. Have you issued any
new guidance within the past 3 months?
Ms. Richards. No. Although, as I said in my letter to
Congress, we've--I've asked our chief medical officer and our
medical team to review all the work we do--and, again, it's
very limited--in fetal tissue donation to ensure that if there
are any things that we could be doing better, we would like to
do that.
Mr. DeSantis. My time has expired.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
We'll now recognize the gentleman from Vermont, Mr. Welch,
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Welch. Thank you very much.
A couple of things preliminarily.
Number one, there is a sharp disagreement on members of
this committee about abortion, and I think each side is
entitled to mutual respect. There is a significant disagreement
about fetal tissue research, and each side is entitled to
respect.
What is clear is the law says abortion is legal, and the
law has limited authorization for fetal tissue research. That's
the law. What Planned Parenthood is doing is completely
consistent with the law.
We're now having an argument about a video that has been
redacted and doctored. There's no dispute about that. All of us
would like to get the entire video. And, in a prudent
investigatory process, we would get the evidence before we
argued about the evidence that we don't have. So that is a
limitation on our ability to get, quote, ``to the truth.''
Second, I'm just going to speak for Vermont. Sixteen
thousand women voluntarily choose to get their primary health
care from Planned Parenthood. These are individuals of free
will acting on the basis of what they believe is in the best
interest of them getting the health care that they need.
Second, the proposal here that we could transfer the
services that Planned Parenthood provides to our community
health centers doesn't stand up in Vermont. We have community
health centers that we're very proud of. Senator Sanders,
Senator Leahy, and I have all been big promoters. But its
clientele is a significantly different population than women
who have made a choice to go to Planned Parenthood for their
women's healthcare issues.
So this proposed remedy here would have an incredibly
negative impact on the choice that Vermont women make about
getting their basic health care. And, by the way, that health
care that's important to the woman who decides to go to Planned
Parenthood is really appreciated by her family, their partners,
and the community.
So what is Congress doing here? We're having an argument
that's never going to end about abortion. But we're proposing
to proceed in a way where the effect of our, quote,
``investigation'' is going to have collateral consequences that
compromises the ability of women to get access to basic
healthcare needs. And it's also in the context where it's
undisputed that the services that Planned Parenthood provides
have helped reduce dramatically teen pregnancies and other
pregnancies.
So I think we should all take a step back here and think
about what we do before we act. The first medical principle
that all doctors follow: Do no harm.
Ms. Richards, I do want to ask you a couple of questions,
this alarming inquiry about whether you were selling for--or
Planned Parenthood was selling for profit body parts.
We've seen a proposed contract from Mr. Daleiden sent to
the Planned Parenthood affiliate in Colorado earlier this year
offering to buy tissue samples. And that contract included a
compensation clause. Were you familiar with that document?
Ms. Richards. Yes, I am.
Mr. Welch. And, in response, your affiliate removed the
word ``compensation'' and added the following text, and I
quote: ``The payments shall not, under any circumstances, be
calculated in such a way as to generate a profit for source.''
So, Ms. Richards, is that what the affiliate did, and was
that the strict policy of Planned Parenthood?
Ms. Richards. So that's a very good example of what
happened across the country. This group, who, as I said, are
committed to--they weren't really committed to routing out any
misdeeds. They were actually trying to entrap doctors and
clinicians into signing bogus contracts and breaking the law.
Mr. Welch. So is that----
Ms. Richards. And so this example is a very good one of
where they were completely rebuffed----
Mr. Welch. And----
Ms. Richards. --and yet they continued to badger and badger
and badger our doctors to try to get them to commit to
something that was unethical or illegal.
Mr. Welch. And after your affiliate sent that deletion of
the word ``compensation,'' did Mr. Daleiden agree to the terms,
or did he lose interest?
Ms. Richards. We never--there was never a contract, you
know, that I know of that was actually sent back.
Mr. Welch. Let me ask another question about a failed
attempt by Mr. Daleiden. On July 20, you sent a letter to
Chairman Upton, and you said this, quote: ``In another
instance, Biomax offered to pay much more, sending the
affiliate a procurement agreement that offered a payment of
$1,600.''
Your letter says this was a, quote, ``astronomical amount
compared to the reasonable cost affiliates are allowed to
recoup under Federal law.'' Is that right?
Ms. Richards. I don't have that in front of me, but it
sounds--to the best of my knowledge, it's correct.
Mr. Welch. All right.
I see that I'm out of time, and I yield back. Thank you.
Ms. Richards. Thank you.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
We'll now recognize the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr.
Walker, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Walker. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Ms. Richards, for being here today. Appreciate
your testimony.
I am also married to a strong lady. She is a family nurse
practitioner----
Ms. Richards. Oh, good.
Mr. Walker. --helped launch the Sexual Assault Nurse
Examiner program at Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center many
years ago.
But we stand together. We have done work in our inner
cities, in places like Cleveland and Baltimore and New York.
And I'm troubled with some of the statistics that we've even
seen out of New York, and maybe you can address that.
I don't want to talk over you; I want to give you a chance
to respond.
But, according to New York Health Department statistics, we
now know that there are more African-American babies that are
aborted in New York than actually born alive. Are you aware of
that statistic?
Ms. Richards. I'm not aware of that statistic.
Mr. Walker. Okay. If that is correct, would that concern
you? Because, obviously, Planned Parenthood has more clinics in
New York State than any other State.
Ms. Richards. Actually, that's not true. We do not. I----
Mr. Walker. What is the number-one leading State? Do you
have----
Ms. Richards. I think it's--I believe it's California. I'll
have to look, though, to make sure.
Mr. Walker. But if you know that's not true----
Ms. Richards. And it's not only--it's not only--I mean,
Planned Parenthood--there are a number of healthcare providers
in the State of New York beyond Planned Parenthood. It's one of
the better-served----
Mr. Walker. I understand. But we've already established
that somewhere between 30 and 40 percent of all abortions come
from your organization. So if we're going to put out the stats,
we want to make sure that we're talking correct on the numbers.
Ms. Richards. And I do think, Mr. Walker, it's a really
important point, because I think one of the other--I don't know
what all the statistics are that you have, but, of course, the
lack of access for African-American women, in particular, to
basic preventive health care, including family planning, is a
huge problem in this country----
Mr. Walker. It is. And I don't want to spend--and I agree
with you. That's, as I aforementioned, time or places that
we've served and worked in.
But it does concern me that three times--the African-
American population is 13 percent, yet they're being aborted at
three times the percent of the population, at 35 percent. That
should concern all of us. I'm sure it concerns you, as well.
I do have a specific question regarding the $32 million
that's sent overseas. Does Planned Parenthood send any funds to
the Democrat Republic of Congo?
Ms. Richards. You know, this was asked earlier, and I----
Mr. Walker. We did touch on it, but I want to come back to
it, yes.
Ms. Richards. I have to get back--honestly, I didn't bring
materials about the--our international global program. I would
have to get back to you that. I'm not trying to evade it. It's
just not something that I thought was a topic of the committee
meeting.
Mr. Walker. Well, I hope you would, because we have laws in
this country that permit--or prohibit us from sending money to
places where we have sanctions on. And if Planned Parenthood is
doing that, I would imagine that would be something that would
concern you, would it not?
Ms. Richards. We would certainly comply with all the laws
both globally and domestically. And that's why I commit to you
I will get information--we'll work with the committee to get
information about the Congo.
Mr. Walker. Fair enough.
I have a question. As a former pastor, 15 years in a couple
large churches, there were many times where we counseled women
at different ages, various ages, for different things they were
going through. Sometimes, 15, 20, 25 years later, after going
through an abortion, there was still some struggle there.
I don't disparage these women for making tough choices. As
you've talked about, many have come from underprivileged
communities, didn't feel like they had options.
But of the $500 million of the taxpayers' money that goes
to your organization, how much of that is set aside to offer
counseling to some of those women who are still struggling with
that issue?
Ms. Richards. Well, we are--we don't--this is what it's
really hard to explain to you, because I feel like we're just--
maybe we're not--we're talking past each other.
We don't get a big check from the Federal Government. We're
reimbursed for direct services. But I will--they're all family
planning, STD testing, wellness visits.
I will say, though, where one area I think you and I might
agree, I would love in this country if we would fully fund, for
Planned Parenthood or anywhere else, comprehensive counseling
services for women on a whole host of issues. It is very
underfunded, and it is really important to us, as well, because
we do counseling with women every single day.
Mr. Walker. I understand that. And I agree that there are
some legitimate services offered. But this is something that I
saw for 15 years.
So, of the $1.3 billion in revenue, even if it doesn't come
from taxpayers, how much of that is set aside to offer these
services of women who are seeking counseling?
Ms. Richards. We counsel--I don't know how--I could get the
numbers for you. We counsel women and young people and men
every single day at Planned Parenthood health centers all
across the country, and most of it, as you probably know, is
uncompensated care.
Mr. Walker. Well, I look at your numbers, and I would tell
you this: It is amazing as far as the amount of revenue that
exists. And that's why I wanted to talk a little bit about how
many how much you're sending overseas. But I do have one final
question.
If--this is a big ``if''--if there is proven to be criminal
activity through an investigation, would you have any problem
redirecting the $500 million or the $60 million of the 20
percent that is not Medicaid, would you have any problem
redirecting that to other women's healthcare organizations who
offer genuine health care.
Ms. Richards. Well, I'm not going to answer to a
hypothetical. And again, I--we follow all the laws at Planned
Parenthood. The health and safety of our patients is our number
one concern. If there is any issue ever at the State or local,
national level, we will address it, and we do so swiftly, and
we always have.
Mr. Walker. Thank you, Ms. Richards.
I yield back.
Chairman Chaffetz. Thank you.
We now recognize the gentlewoman from the Virgin Islands,
Ms. Plaskett, for 5 minutes.
Ms. Plaskett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member,
Mr. Cummings.
Thank you, Ms. Richards, for being here for the inordinate
amount of time that you have. And I reiterate so much of what
my colleagues here on this side of the aisle have said
regarding this hearing and some of the concerns. You and your
office know that I vocalized to you privately the fact that I'm
displeased that Planned Parenthood is not present in my own
district in the Virgin Islands or in any of the territories,
which have approximately 4 million people. And the reason I'm
displeased about that is because I know the good work that
Planned Parenthood does in preventative health towards women.
With the Virgin Islands having 141 unplanned teen pregnancies
per 1,000, when the national rate is 29 pregnancies per 1,000,
I see how important the work that you guys do is to different
areas.
And, you know, the chairman has seven clinics in his area
in Utah. And Mr. Chairman, we would be glad to take any one of
them in the Virgin Islands to be able to support women's health
and the work that you do, knowing that 78 percent of those
seven clinics are in rural areas.
And I know that this committee is searching for truth, and
that's the purpose of the Oversight and Government Reform
Committee. And I believe that we need to do that in a neutral
and evenhanded manner that reflects the integrity of this
committee.
Which is why I think that this is a premature committee
hearing, if not the fact that the other side, the individual
that the minority has requested to be here, Mr. Daleiden, is
not here. And while I understand that Mr. Daleiden has had
restrictions on the videos being produced, he has not produced
one document that has been requested by this committee from
either side.
Ms. Richards, do you know how many documents, how many
pages of documents Planned Parenthood has produced?
Chairman Chaffetz. Will the gentlewoman yield?
Ms. Plaskett. No, not at this time, sir. Afterwards I will
leave you some time.
Ms. Richards. I know thousands and thousands of pages of
documents.
Ms. Plaskett. I think it is 20,000 pages. And I know that
the Ranking Member Cummings has sent a request for documents,
and the Chairman Chaffetz and Representative Jordan have sent
their own request for documents. And a subpoena was issued and
it has not, not one page of documents, although I understand
that, from the testimony, that the videos were, in fact--there
was a question regards that.
And so, Ms. Richards, I want to ask you some questions
since we only have Planned Parenthood here, and we only have
your documents that we are able to put up, and put up on
screens and for you to be able to be questioned about, not the
other side, which as an attorney is a little problematic for me
to be able to get to the truth if I don't see both sides of the
evidence being presented to me. But I understand that there are
several States that have launched investigations against
Planned Parenthood. Is that correct?
Ms. Richards. Well, there have been a variety of--I mean,
we're constantly being, you know, overseeing our healthcare
services. And, yes, I think as a result of this recent
campaign, there have been various State----
Ms. Plaskett. And I understand that several of those States
have cleared Planned Parenthood of any wrongdoing?
Ms. Richards. That's correct. That's correct.
Ms. Plaskett. And that there has not been produced any
credible evidence that your organization has broken a single
law. Is that correct?
Ms. Richards. I believe that's true.
Ms. Plaskett. And, however, there is plenty of evidence
that Mr. Daleiden and his associates have violated both Federal
and State laws. One example is his group obtaining tax-exempt
status and apparently solicited charitable contributions under
false pretense.
Ms. Richards, are you aware that the Center for Medical
Progress obtained a 501(c)(3) status as, I quote, a
``biomedicine or bioengineering organization.''
Ms. Richards. All I know is what I've read in the paper
about the organization.
Ms. Plaskett. And that that, in fact, is a fake
organization that filed official paperwork with the State of
California to create a sham tissue procurement company called
BioMax Procurement Services, LLC? Ms. Richards, as far as I
know, illegally filing false paperwork with a State agency is--
it's illegal and against the law, right?
Ms. Richards. It may be. I don't know. And I know there is
a lawsuit now pending, and I think the Attorney General of
California has indicated that there will be an investigation.
Ms. Plaskett. And so for me, for us to have this discussion
with you without having the balance of the other side, becomes
problematic.
Mr. Chairman, did you want to say something at this point?
Chairman Chaffetz. Yes. I thank the gentlewoman for
yielding. She made a suggestion that Mr. Daleiden had not been
responsive to our inquiries. That's not true. We issued a
subpoena, he responded within the time. That package that
arrived has not been opened. It's in our safe. He's unable to
provide all of the documents given that there is a temporary
restraining order. We understand that.
House counsel is involved. Mr. Cummings and I evidently
agree on this point, that we're trying to get all of that
information. But to suggest that he was nonresponsive is simply
not true because he did respond within the time allocated under
the subpoena.
Ms. Plaskett. Well, it's my position, Mr. Chairman, that
until you're able to open all of those documents and receive
all of them and we're able to balance them against the
documents, the 20,000 pages of documents produced by Planned
Parenthood, that this is an unfair hearing and that we're not
getting the documents we need to do that.
Chairman Chaffetz. Will the gentlewoman yield? I agree that
we need all the information. That's why Mr. Daleiden was not
invited to this hearing. The subject is exactly what I said in
my opening comments and statements, which many members have
asked, inquired about. It's the funding component. We did not
title this hearing as a hearing on the videos. It caused some
controversy, but we have, in the essence of time, some
legitimate discussion about a continuing resolution and ongoing
funding for Planned Parenthood, and we have laid that out. But
my comments were not about the video, it was about the funding.
That's where my concern lies. And we will----
Ms. Plaskett. Mr. Chairman----
Chairman Chaffetz. --we will get to, hopefully, see all of
those videos, but we have got to get past the restraining order
that has been put in place by a judge in California.
Ms. Plaskett. Mr. Chairman, if we're going to discuss
funding, and knowing that Members of Congress can sit here and
ask questions that run the gamut, and that funding question is
related to those videos which are the genesis of the question
of whether to defund, then I think it's a little naive of us to
think that that discussion can be done in a vacuum without the
videos and the other documents from the other side.
And I think that my time is up.
Mr. Cummings. Would the gentlelady yield, with the
chairman's indulgence.
Chairman Chaffetz. Sure.
Mr. Cummings. In fairness to the gentlelady, I'm looking at
the memorandum from the majority and it talks about background
for this hearing. In the first sentence, under background, it
says: ``Recently released videos demonstrate Planned Parenthood
Federation of America participates in transactions involving
transferring fetal tissue for remuneration.'' And then it goes
on.
But let me just very briefly so that the record is clear,
the gentlelady referred to documents that we had not received.
And, again, I would like to briefly clarify one point on the
record because it is important for the committee members to
understand and I will be very brief.
On Friday afternoon the Republican staff informed
Democratic staff that Mr. Daleiden sent them a package, a FedEx
box, but they said that they did not want to open it until this
week. We thought this was strange because if the Republicans
delayed opening this package, members would not have had enough
time to review whatever was inside before today's hearing.
So our staff also made it clear that if the Republicans
wanted to use any of this material at today's hearing, it
should be opened immediately on Friday so we could begin to
reviewing it as soon as possible through the weekend. But the
Republican staff told us that they wanted to just keep the box
closed. They said they would not open it and they would not use
it at the hearing.
So, as of this moment, we still do not know for sure what
is inside that box from Mr. Daleiden. However, we did receive a
copy of minutes from a recent hearing in a lawsuit in
California where Mr. Daleiden's attorneys apparently told the
court in that case that they delivered additional video footage
to our committee. So even more footage that Mr. Daleiden cut
from the videos he's released publicly.
So we went on to--we went on--we want to open the package.
We want members to have equal access to the videos that are
apparently inside. And we definitely want to see what the other
footage Mr. Daleiden was concealing from the public. And I'll
yield back.
Chairman Chaffetz. Yeah, I want to see all the video too.
That's why we issued a subpoena. I wish you all had supported
us when we issued it.
Mr. Cummings. Again, Mr. Chairman, I have said it before,
and I don't want to----
Chairman Chaffetz. I'm glad to have your support now.
Mr. Cummings. I don't want to belabor----
Chairman Chaffetz. I'm glad to have your support.
Mr. Cummings. No, no, no, it's not now. We have been--we
have supported it, and I can show you the documents to show you
that we--consistently, we have asked that we get all of the
tapes. And I will certainly, if you give me a few minutes while
others are asking questions, I'll give you the very documents
that we sent you showing that. Okay?
Chairman Chaffetz. All right. We're going to go now to the
gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Mulvaney, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Mulvaney. I thank the chairman. And I'll try and make
my Democrat colleagues happy and ask funding questions that
have nothing to do with the videos. How about that?
Which is more important to you, Ms. Richards, actually
providing women's healthcare services or lobbying?
Ms. Richards. Well, I think these two things go hand in
hand. And certainly what we have learned over the years is that
in order to be able to provide healthcare services to women you
have to also be able to advocate particularly for women who are
underserved. So I think the two things actually go hand in
hand.
Mr. Mulvaney. Fair enough. You spent $21 million on
lobbying in the last couple years. You spent zero dollars on
mammograms. Why is that?
Ms. Richards. Well, I think we've discussed mammograms
repeatedly and how women's health care works. So when I go to
my doctor, I get a breast exam. And we refer to----
Mr. Mulvaney. You do a referral. I get that. Why don't you
do them? Why don't you do them?
Ms. Richards. Well, we're not a radiological clinic and I
actually don't think that's----
Mr. Mulvaney. Why not? That is a women's service.
Ms. Richards. Well, I guess we could take it up, but we
never have provided mammograms because we work in concert with
folks who do provide radiological services.
We do a number of breast exams----
Mr. Mulvaney. You are aware, by the way, there's people
running for President saying that you do provide mammograms.
And that's not accurate, is it?
Ms. Richards. Well, there are a number of people running
for President saying a lot of things that----
Mr. Mulvaney. On that side.
Ms. Richards. --I can't certainly rely on.
Mr. Mulvaney. You said earlier that you don't make any
money from Federal funds, right, you don't make any profit off
of Federal funds? Is that correct?
Ms. Richards. So Planned Parenthood is a national office.
We have one source of Federal funding right now. It's a
$21,000, roughly, grant for a birth control clinical trial
where we are actually reimbursed for costs alone, and that's
the only source of Federal resources that come to the national
office. So we couldn't make a profit off that, though.
Mr. Mulvaney. Where is the $532 million going?
Ms. Richards. So Medicaid and Title X----
Mr. Mulvaney. So when you said you don't make any money off
the Federal funds you were talking about the parent, not about
your operations?
Ms. Richards. I was trying to explain that the national
office, and then there are--we have 59 affiliates.
Mr. Mulvaney. Right.
Ms. Richards. We have 650 to 700 health centers that
provide healthcare services.
Mr. Mulvaney. Is it your testimony that none of those make
any profit off of Federal funds?
Ms. Richards. Well, I would have to--they're all reimbursed
for services that they provide, and I, my experience is that--
--
Mr. Mulvaney. And that provides a profit, right?
Ms. Richards. Excuse me?
Mr. Mulvaney. That provides a profit. You get reimbursed
for services.
Ms. Richards. Well, we're a nonprofit so that----
Mr. Mulvaney. You're a nonprofit that made $127 million
last year.
Ms. Richards. We didn't make money. We don't make money. We
actually reinvest money in healthcare services and education
and a lot of other things.
Mr. Mulvaney. Okay, so let's talk about that.
Ms. Richards. But I wanted to answer your first question.
Mr. Mulvaney. Well, I'm going to follow up on that
question. Now let's go on to this one. You just mentioned that
you don't make money, but you had revenues in excess of your
expenses of $127 million last year. That's right. That's your
testimony. It's your numbers.
Ms. Richards. We raised----
Mr. Mulvaney. Right. So here is my question. I'm going to
get to the question. Where does the money go? Where does that
$127 million go?
Ms. Richards. So like any organization of our size and
scale, a lot of our resources are in what is a board-designated
endowment or reserve. We are a 99-year old organization and so
we have built our endowment. But also, I'm investing----
Mr. Mulvaney. But you retain those earnings. In the private
sense, you would retain those or you put them in the bank.
Ms. Richards. Well, I hope they're in the bank and not just
laying around. But certainly, in addition to that, so some are
in reserves, and the other is, I have just invested in
expanding healthcare services and building new clinics in a
variety of States across the country. That's not paid for----
Mr. Mulvaney. How is that not an expense?
Ms. Richards. Excuse me?
Mr. Mulvaney. How is that not an expense?
Ms. Richards. Well, it is an expense.
Mr. Mulvaney. But your books reflect revenues in excess of
expenses of $127 million.
Ms. Richards. I'm sorry, they're not all out the door, but
I've made commitments to opening up new health centers in New
Orleans, in Dallas, in other States in the South. We are
opening in other States that I won't mention here. Probably----
Mr. Mulvaney. Okay, so let's say that that money goes
towards expanding your service. One of the proposals here, Ms.
Richards, is to defund Planned Parenthood, which includes
taking $60 million, roughly $60 million away from what you get
out of discretionary funding. If we took $60 million away from
you, you could still perform every single service that you gave
last year, can't you?
Ms. Richards. I can't say that because those----
Mr. Mulvaney. Well, you made--you said you have revenues in
excess of expenses of $127 million. Now, you told me what
you're doing with $127 million. You're spending it. You're
investing it. You're expanding. I get that. But if you'd had
$60 million less last year you could have provided every single
service to every single woman that you did last year.
Ms. Richards. Well, I constantly raise money to expand
services to the patients that look to us. And so I don't----
Mr. Mulvaney. And God bless you. I think that's great. But
answer my question, please. You could have provided every
single service that you did to every single woman last year if
you did not get a penny from the discretionary fund from the
United States Congress?
Ms. Richards. Well, I actually disagree. There's no way I
could agree to that. These are services that are spread all
across the country, and I can't possibly account for how each
dollar that I raise----
Mr. Mulvaney. You still would have had----
Ms. Richards. --which is committed to other services and
expansion of services could simply replace Federal dollars.
Mr. Mulvaney. That's not expansion of services. I'm talking
about services you actually provided. You would have had $67
million----
Ms. Richards. Well, we're expanding services beyond what we
already provide.
Mr. Mulvaney. Not that. That's not my question. My question
is, if we had not funded you last year, you still would have
been able to provide the services. And I think the answer is,
unequivocally, yes. You might not have been able to expand your
services, but every single woman that walked into every single
clinic would have been served if you had not received that
money from Congress.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Richards. I disagree, but----
Chairman Chaffetz. And we are just trying to figure out
why, why you would disagree with that. Revenues would still
exceed expenses even with $60 million less.
Ms. Richards. So do you want me to start talking? Are we
now having this conversation? I'm sorry, I wasn't sure if we're
finishing this?
Chairman Chaffetz. Yeah, sure.
Ms. Richards. So I raise money every single day to expand
services, education services to people in America. That's what
we do at Planned Parenthood. And like any other nonprofit, we
reserve money for all kinds of services that need to be
expanded, assistance that needs to be provided, and that's what
we do with our money. We are a nonprofit. We don't do anything
else with our money other than put it back into the services,
the education, and sometimes the advocacy that we provide.
Chairman Chaffetz. I'll now recognize the gentlewoman from
New Mexico, Ms. Lujan Grisham for 5 minutes.
Ms. Lujan Grisham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And thank you, Ms. Richards.
And if this committee is going to undertake how Medicaid
money is used and not used by every healthcare provider in
every State and every local government in the United States, it
might be a very interesting hearing about how we can assure
that the Medicaid funds that are not reaching so many still,
even with the progress of the Affordable Care Act, so many
women and so many families, that would be a hearing that I
think would be well worth having.
I'm going to go back to both the funding aspects here, the
unintended consequences. And really, I appreciate the comments
of all of my colleagues, but Mr. Welch and Mr. Boyle. I served
as the New Mexico secretary of health and one of my challenges
was certainly to deal with teen pregnancy, but to also make
sure that we had the right partnerships and viable access on a
public health system where women and their families could get
access to healthcare services that were of high quality and
services that they trust.
I can tell you something you already know, that without
Planned Parenthood we could not meet those access points, and
quite frankly, even in the public health system there are many
women, particularly in rural and frontier areas of the State
who, A, did not have access or would absolutely under no
circumstances choose that access, where I'd like to tell you
that our record about prevention and preventing pregnancy was
better in the public health system.
And that was in a world where we didn't have the 2008
budget issues, where our State now is not putting money into
public health or expanding public health or working on women's
health care. And without the Affordable Care Act our rural
hospitals and community health centers would all but be closed.
And I will tell you that we now have the highest teen pregnancy
rate in the country, with efforts at looking at what we can do
for 15-year-olds to prevent the second and third pregnancy.
Women need and deserve unfettered, high-quality,
confidential access to comprehensive health services. And I'm
hearing from hundreds of constituents, and I also know that
thousands of New Mexico women and their families will not have
access to these services because it is all connected. And even
if it wasn't, we'd still want them to have the choices that
they make that are right for them.
But with all of the funding issues that we debate in this
Congress, I know unequivocally that they don't have access in
many of the places that they should. And under the Equal
Protection Clause, they certainly ought to with Medicaid
funding.
Can you talk a little bit more about what States like New
Mexico with these high teen pregnancy rates, without public
health access, without those rural access points, where would
those 21,000 women go?
Ms. Richards. Well, thank you for your service in the
public health arena and for your question. I do think it's
incredibly important that we're constantly looking at new ways
to help particularly young people access information and
services. And it sort of goes back to the chairman's question
maybe earlier, which is one of the things we do at Planned
Parenthood, in addition to providing Medicaid family planning
services, another is, we now run education programs all across
the country and through the Web that have an average of 6
million visitors every single month and visited by young people
and by their families, English and in Spanish, because many
people don't have access to adequate sex education in their
communities.
In addition, we are looking at more ways to provide birth
control through--virtually, so that actually you can order it
online and don't have to be in a clinic, because for many rural
Americans it's very difficult to access a family planning
provider in your community.
So those are the kinds of things----
Ms. Lujan Grisham. They're just not there. I have a pastor
in my district who's let me know that he refers women to
Planned Parenthood because he knows that there aren't the right
community access points. And I know it has been touched on in
this committee, but I have personal experience and know many of
my constituents in their 20s and 30s and 40s who without the
comprehensive healthcare services would have died from cervical
cancer.
And I know exactly how important, again, in a State that
has higher per capita averages in many of these cancer areas
for these populations, and particularly for minority
populations, that we want to do a much better job investing in
comprehensive health, simply do not have it. And the notion
that we would continue to discriminate against those
populations by not providing adequate Federal funding and
access makes no sense if what we're trying to do is to maintain
my choice about my high-quality confidential provider.
Thank you, Ms. Richards, for being here today. I appreciate
your testimony.
Ms. Richards. Thanks for letting me be here.
Ms. Lujan Grisham. Thank you.
Chairman Chaffetz. Thank you.
Members are advised we have two votes on the floor. There
are approximately 8 minutes left in this first previous
question vote. It is the intention of the chair to recognize
Mr. Hice for his 5 minutes of questioning, then we're going to
go to recess, then we're going to have to come back. We thought
we could get through it, but we still have a number of members
who have questions.
So we'll now recognize Mr. Hice for 5 minutes. Then we'll
go into recess and we'll reconvene after the votes.
Mr. Hice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Richards, just a point of clarification. It's already
been established that Planned Parenthood serves a lot of
underprivileged people. And I just want to be clear. In your
testimony you stated that it is significantly more difficult
for individuals on Medicaid to access a provider as opposed to
someone with a private insurance because so many providers now
are not accepting Medicaid. Is that correct?
Ms. Richards. Medicaid patients. It really varies across
the country, but certainly there are some States where it's
very difficult.
Mr. Hice. And that's one reason that you would say that
Planned Parenthood is needed, because there is a gap there. Is
that correct?
Ms. Richards. Well, I think we're--I mean, I think we have
tried to demonstrate that we are an important provider of
Medicaid services to a lot of folks in this country.
Mr. Hice. But particularly the underprivileged and----
Ms. Richards. Well, that's who, I mean, I guess by
definition, yes, that's who is on Medicaid.
Mr. Hice. All right. So you also said in your testimony
that the Government Accountability Office found that about two-
thirds of the States are challenged now recruiting OB-GYNs
because of the difficulty in ensuring provider participation in
Medicaid and that, according to the CBO--this again is in your
testimony--that by next year, ObamaCare is expected to reduce
the uninsured, and nearly half of those are going to be on
Medicaid.
So from these testimonies from--or these statements in your
testimony, is Medicaid, in your opinion, a substandard
insurance?
Ms. Richards. In my opinion is it--no.
Mr. Hice. Is it an inferior product?
Ms. Richards. Well, I'm not sure--I'm not exactly sure how
to answer that. I think it's important that Medicaid----
Mr. Hice. Well, this is according to your testimony, and I
just want to know.
Ms. Richards. No, no, I didn't--I don't think I said that,
so I just want to make sure I'm clear what you're asking. I
think it is important that Medicaid patients be able to get the
same kind of quality of care as other insured people.
Mr. Hice. But you said they can't, they're not able to
because so many providers are not--let's go on to some other
things. I was just curious and those were some questions that I
had jotted down.
Ms. Richards. Okay.
Mr. Hice. It seems to me that there is a question mark
there. You praise it on one end, Medicaid, and then----
Ms. Richards. It's very important.
Mr. Hice. --say it's a problem on the other, and that's
why----
Ms. Richards. No, it's not--I hope I didn't misstate that.
I don't think Medicaid is a problem. I think the challenge is,
because the reimbursement rates are very, very low in many
States, there are not enough doctors and healthcare providers
that will take new Medicaid patients. It's something that
everyone struggles with.
Mr. Hice. Okay. Let's go further. I do have some other
questions.
We have also established today that there has been excess
revenue, as you describe it, other than, say, in profit, excess
revenue, nearly three-quarters of a billion dollars in the last
10 years, $127 million last year. We can break that down in a
number of different ways. And yet, at the same time, dramatic
reduction in prenatal care, preventive services, cancer
screening, and so forth.
And do you have any idea, by the way, how many Planned
Parenthood clinics have closed over the last 10 years?
Ms. Richards. I don't have those exact numbers. And you're
referring to a lot of things I'd have to go back and look at
charts for. I think we've addressed--although I know not
everyone is here for all of it--why some women's healthcare
services aren't needed on an annual basis anymore. But many of
our Planned Parenthood health centers have merged to be more
efficient. We started 99 years ago, and I will be candid,
there's not always totally efficiency----
Mr. Hice. Okay, well, let me go on. There's been over 100
that have closed just over the last----
Ms. Richards. Or merged. Well, I would say, or merged.
Mr. Hice. Closed or merged, whatever. But the bottom line
is, you stated just a few moments ago that this $127 million,
three-quarters of a billion over the last 10 years, that you
are largely holding it and using it for investment purposes.
Why is it on the taxpayers' hook to provide for your
investments in expansion when you are declining your services
and clinics are closing?
Ms. Richards. I don't think the Federal--the Federal
Government isn't investing in our expansion. In fact, the
Federal Government----
Mr. Hice. The taxpayers are, according to----
Ms. Richards. The Federal Government----
Mr. Hice. You've got $127 million over the last year that's
excess.
Ms. Richards. None of that is Federal dollars, I'm sorry,
that's all raised by private----
Mr. Hice. All right, so we have $60 million that are
Federal dollars that comes through the discretionary fund. Why
do the taxpayers need to be providing $60 million when you've
got $127 million a year? I mean, I'm just going back to the
question already asked. I'm trying to find, why is the taxpayer
responsible for your expansion?
Ms. Richards. I'm not holding the taxpayers responsible for
our expansion. In fact, the money that is paid for by the
Federal Government through Medicaid, through Title X, through
CDC grants, or HIV/AIDS programs, all pay for services directly
provided to patients. And there is strict accountability and we
are accountable. HHS looks at all of the Medicaid payments.
So this is--we are grateful for the opportunity to serve
patients who come into us on those programs. I think we provide
very high quality, and that's why patients continue to come to
us. And I think patients, regardless of whether they're on
Medicaid or not, should have the option to go to the healthcare
provider of their choice.
Mr. Hice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
The committee will now stand in recess and reconvene no
sooner than 2:00 p.m. But we'll will be beholden to the
conclusion of these votes. The committee stands in recess.
[Recess.]
Chairman Chaffetz. The Committee on Oversight and
Government Reform will come to order and we will resume our
hearing regarding Planned Parenthood.
We are now going to recognize, if the gentlewoman would--I
need her to change.
If we would--we'll now recognize the gentleman from
Missouri, Mr. Clay, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Clay. Ms. Richards, welcome, and thank you for your
patience for being here so long. Let me start with the point
that a lot of Republicans have relied on these doctored videos
to accuse Planned Parenthood physicians of violating Federal
laws. Just yesterday, the Missouri attorney general, Chris
Koster, just completed his investigation of Planned Parenthood
and found no wrongdoing. However, I want to walk through some
of these accusations and ask you to give us the facts.
Just as a preliminary matter, does Planned Parenthood
receive any Federal funding for its tissue donation program?
Ms. Richards. No, not that I'm aware of.
Mr. Clay. Okay. Let me ask about the accusation that
physicians are illegally altering abortion methods to harvest
fetal tissue in violation of Federal law. First, here is what
the law says. Doctors must certify, and I quote, ``no
alteration of the timing, method, or procedures used to
terminate the pregnancy was made solely for the purposes of
obtaining tissue.'' This provision applies to federally funded
research involving the transplantation of human fetal tissue
for therapeutic purposes.
This has been confirmed by the Department of Health and
Human Services, which wrote that the Department, and I quote,
``has not funded or conducted this specific type of research in
recent years.''
So even though this law does not apply to Planned
Parenthood affiliates, you have still issued guidance that is
consistent with the law. Is that right?
Ms. Richards. That's correct. So just to be perfectly
clear, the Federal law you're citing doesn't apply to Planned
Parenthood because it, as you said, it only applies to
donations for related transplantation research funded by the
NIH.
One other thing, Congressman Clay, actually I would like to
mention, that when all of this came up, I actually wrote to the
NIH and said if it's time to review the way fetal tissue
research is done in this country, we welcome that. It's a very
small part, obviously, of what we do, only 1 percent of our
health centers even allow for tissue donation. But it seems
that it would be an appropriate forum for biomedical ethicists
and researchers and doctors to do that, and we welcome that if
the NIH chooses to do so.
Mr. Clay. Wonderful. Wonderful.
Okay, let's turn to these accusations. David Daleiden and
the Republicans accuse Planned Parenthood physicians of
changing the timing, method, and procedure of abortions solely
for the purpose of obtaining fetal tissue. So let me ask you
directly, do Planned Parenthood physicians alter the timing,
method, or procedure of an abortion solely for the purpose of
obtaining fetal tissue for research in violation of Federal
law?
Ms. Richards. Well, first, just to go back, as we've
established, Federal law doesn't apply, and yet our own
standards and guidelines go above and beyond what's required. I
have spoken with our chief medical officer and she assures me
that she knows of no instance where the method or the procedure
or the timing of an abortion was altered in any way in order to
facilitate what is the patient's desire to donate fetal tissue
for fetal tissue research.
Mr. Clay. Let me ask you, when the physicians do make
clinical adjustments during the course of the procedure, why
would they do that and how does that work?
Ms. Richards. Well, I'm not a doctor, so I can't speak to
everything that doctors do. But I do know that our number one
goal at Planned Parenthood is the health and safety of our
patients, and so patient--certainly our doctors' number one
goal is to make sure that if it is an abortion patient, that
they have a successful procedure. And I know from talking to
doctors all across the country, long before any of this
happened, that doctors do all kinds of things, as do all
surgeons, I assume, make decisions in the middle of procedures
to ensure a good outcome.
Mr. Clay. Let me--let's move to a different accusation,
which is that women are not consenting to participate in these
tissue donation programs. Can you speak to that, that women may
not be consenting to donating the fetal tissue?
Ms. Richards. Women are fully consenting, and they consent
at Planned Parenthood prior--certainly prior to an abortion.
And one of the interesting things that has happened, in part as
a result, I think, of all of the press, is that there are more
and more women asking if they could actually donate fetal
tissue because they understand the importance of the research
that's done. But, again, we only have two affiliates now who
are able to, you know, can help women who want to make a fetal
tissue donation.
Mr. Clay. Thank you for your response.
Mrs. Lummis. [Presiding.] The gentleman's time has expired.
Ms. Richards. Thank you.
Mrs. Lummis. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from
Oklahoma, Mr. Russell.
Mr. Russell. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
And thank you, Ms. Richards, for being here today.
How much total revenue collected or reimbursed for Planned
Parenthood and its affiliates comes from abortion services?
Ms. Richards. I believe we provided all of our financial
information. I don't have that number.
Mr. Russell. Do you have a ballpark?
Ms. Richards. No, I don't. But again, we have provided--I
know there was some back and forth about this, but--and I just
verified it on the break. We provided all of the 990s, not only
for the national organization, but our 59 affiliates, and I
believe the audited financial statements.
Mr. Russell. I guess if we were to extrapolate from the
Planned Parenthood Web site of the cost of an abortion, the
average cost, or of an abortion pill, it would be at $1,500 for
the service of abortion or $800 for the pill. If you multiply
that times 327,000, that would come somewhere between 40
percent or 22 percent of a figure. Regardless, it's $491
million down to $261 million just from the ballpark figures we
see on Planned Parenthood's Web site.
Ms. Richards. And I have to--could I just, I'm sorry to
interrupt, but actually that is not----
Mr. Russell. If you could very quickly.
Ms. Richards. That's not accurate. But in any case----
Mr. Russell. Well, then would you be willing to provide us
what the accurate figure is, and when could you provide that to
us?
Ms. Richards. Well, what was inaccurate is, I think, what
you reported in terms of the cost of an abortion. Obviously, it
varies State to State, so I can't say, but I think your number
was high.
Mr. Russell. Well, we would await the accurate figures and
when would you provide those to us?
Ms. Richards. I have said to the chair, and we have been
abundantly cooperative to this committee, we've provided
thousands and thousands of pages of documents. And I'm happy to
work with the committee and the staff and with my team to
provide other information that you need.
Mr. Russell. Okay. And I appreciate that. We'll continue
on.
Absent Federal funding, what effect specifically would it
have on the organization's ability to provide abortion
services?
Ms. Richards. I'm sorry, could you restate your question? I
don't think I understood it.
Mr. Russell. Yes. Absent Federal funding, what specifically
would it have on the organization's ability to provide abortion
services?
Ms. Richards. Well, okay, I hope I'm answering your
question correctly. No money, no Federal dollars go to Planned
Parenthood or other hospitals or other healthcare providers to
provide abortion services.
Mr. Russell. So it would have no impact, is that your
answer?
Ms. Richards. No impact on what?
Mr. Russell. On abortion services.
Ms. Richards. If we were not reimbursed for family
planning, for preventive care----
Mr. Russell. No, I'm asking specifically. Absent Federal
funding, what specific impact would it have on abortion
services?
Ms. Richards. I can't think of a specific impact. I'm just
trying to make sure I--I really am trying to be responsive to
your question.
Mr. Russell. No, and I can see that. Thank you.
Ms. Richards. Okay.
Mr. Russell. Can Federal funds be used for abortion
equipment?
Ms. Richards. Federal funds are only, in my understanding,
and if there is something that I--there may be something I'm
unaware of--but Federal funds can only be used for abortion
services in very specific instances which I--we talked about
earlier, which is if a woman has been raped----
Mr. Russell. Sure.
Mr. Russell. --if she is a victim of incest, or if it is
the life of the mother.
Mr. Russell. Well, I'm curious on the equipment, on the
salaries, cleaning services, rent and maintenance of
facilities, what about that?
Ms. Richards. So let me just--on the abortion services, and
on Federal funding for abortion services, these are--this is
actually done through the States. That's where Medicaid funds
come through, and they--I can get--we could look at any
specifics on that. But that is oversight by----
Mr. Russell. Okay. We would like that, if you could answer
to that, because I realize----
Ms. Richards. It's the Federal Government, though, that
actually is making those decisions.
Mr. Russell. Well, thank you.
Ms. Richards. It's not--I mean, just it's not Planned
Parenthood.
Mr. Russell. For the record, Mr. Chairman, we've heard
testimony today that 2.7 million received services in the last
reported year. That number is actually over 3 million when you
add the 327,000 aborted children to that figure. For the
record, 2.7 million receive services and 327,000 receive a
legal termination with no right to choose life.
Three of my five children are adopted. It is my firm belief
and the financial evidence substantiates that Planned
Parenthood clearly does not need taxpayer funding to survive.
We can carve up a child and call it a choice. We can destroy
human life and call it health care. We can make the killing of
children legal and pretend it is beneficial. We can cover acts
of barbarity with the veneer of civility. But we cannot escape
our accountability before the Creator of life.
And with that, Madam Chairman, I yield back my time.
Mrs. Lummis. The gentleman yields back.
The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Pennsylvania,
Mr. Cartwright.
Mr. Cartwright. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
And, Ms. Richards, I want to thank you for being here
today. I want to ask about Planned Parenthood's Federal funding
since that's supposed to be the topic of today's hearing.
Ms. Richards. Uh-huh.
Mr. Cartwright. What we're hearing is that Planned
Parenthood receives about $500 million in Federal funding every
year, and it is easy to see why you hear that figure a lot
because it is an awful lot of money. And it seems like, I mean,
the way you hear it, it sounds like Planned Parenthood receives
a big check, a big cash payment every year. But I want to break
down the numbers. According to the data compiled by the GAO,
something like 80 percent of Planned Parenthood's government-
related revenue in 2012, about $400 million, came from Medicaid
reimbursements.
I think that's the point you've been trying to make today,
is that it comes in the form of Medicaid reimbursements through
the States for activities such as cancer screenings and
wellness exams. Ms. Richards, first off, is that figure
correct, around 80 percent, to the best of your knowledge?
Ms. Richards. I think, to the best myself knowledge, it is
correct. About 1.6 million of our patients in a year receive--
are covered by some kind of Federal program, Title X, or they
are Medicaid patients, or there is a few other programs that we
work on, HIV/AIDS programs and the like.
Mr. Cartwright. And so is that figure fairly consistent
with more recent years?
Ms. Richards. Yes. And also one thing I just wanted to make
sure is clear, it's not all Federal funds. A lot of State funds
are combined in that figure, and I don't know the exact
breakdown.
Mr. Cartwright. Fair enough.
Ms. Richards. So it's just not all Federal dollars, is all
I meant to say.
Mr. Cartwright. But what these numbers really mean is that
Planned Parenthood affiliates provide a massive number of
healthcare services to Medicaid patients, and then they are
reimbursed on a fee-for-service basis.
Ms. Richards. That's exactly correct.
Mr. Cartwright. Is that a fair statement?
Ms. Richards. And I think we provide really, really good
health care for Medicaid patients and we're proud of that.
Mr. Cartwright. Okay. Well, I come from a district that has
a lot of rural territory in northeastern Pennsylvania. We have
an awful lot of Medicaid-eligible patients.
Ms. Richards. Yes.
Mr. Cartwright. So it is an issue of concern to me.
Medicaid patients are primarily people who are poor, elderly,
or have disabilities, isn't that right?
Ms. Richards. I don't know the breakdown of all Medicaid
patients and certainly don't know for your area of
Pennsylvania. I do know how many patients we see in
Pennsylvania.
Mr. Cartwright. Just in general, Medicaid patients--stay
with me here----
Ms. Richards. Okay.
Mr. Cartwright. --Medicaid patients tend to be poor,
elderly, or have disabilities, don't they, in general?
Ms. Richards. Again, I'm just speaking--I only know of the
folks we serve, so I can't speak about Medicaid patients more
broadly. We don't serve many elderly Medicaid patients.
Primarily we serve women between the ages of 18 and 24.
Mr. Cartwright. Of course, that's true.
Ms. Richards. Okay.
Mr. Cartwright. And many of Planned Parenthood's Medicaid
patients come from medically underserved communities, right?
Ms. Richards. That's correct.
Mr. Cartwright. And that's why the $500 million figure gets
thrown around so much, that's why that's so misleading, because
this is not an appropriated amount from discretionary spending,
it is reimbursements for fee-for-service treatment. And like
other medical providers, Planned Parenthood is reimbursed for
the health care it provides for these patients, and that's
generally the way healthcare insurance works anyway, right?
Ms. Richards. That's exactly right. It's a different
insurance program.
Mr. Cartwright. In fact, we rely on providers to take in
these patients, especially since Medicaid generally reimburses
at a lower rate than private insurance.
Ms. Richards. That's correct. And I think it's really
important because in so many States, as we have talked about
earlier, there are not that many healthcare providers that will
take Medicaid patients.
Mr. Cartwright. In fact, I think Dr. Gosar made that point.
Medicaid reimburses rather poorly.
Ms. Richards. It does. Although we are really proud, just
looking at your State of Pennsylvania, we see 108,000 patients
in the State of Pennsylvania, and many of them are in rural
communities.
Mr. Cartwright. Well, so when we hear talk about defunding
Planned Parenthood, a big part of that is excluding Planned
Parenthood affiliates from Medicaid, isn't that right?
Ms. Richards. Correct. Essentially, and that's what is
important, I'm so glad you made this point, because we can't
make it strongly enough, as you said, we don't get an
appropriated amount of money. This would actually--what
Congress is proposing doing would deny people on Medicaid the
ability to go to the provider of their choice, and many of them
do choose Planned Parenthood for a whole host of reasons.
Mr. Cartwright. Thank you for being here, Ms. Richards.
I yield back.
Mr. Jordan. [Presiding.] I thank the gentleman.
The gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Carter, is recognized.
Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Richards, you were kind enough to provide this
committee with a list of the salaries and compensation of the
officers of Planned Parenthood. That is correct and up to date,
is that right?
Ms. Richards. I'm sure it is if we provided it.
Mr. Carter. Okay. Well, thank you. And I'm looking at this
and I'm seeing an employee at Planned Parenthood's affiliate in
Minnesota, North Dakota, and South Dakota was paid $459,827 in
2013, is that correct?
Ms. Richards. I don't have the figures in front of me. I do
happen to know that affiliate is--this is a woman who has been
a healthcare professional for decades.
Mr. Cartwright. Okay, $459,000. And it is correct that you
were compensated $590,000 in 2013, is that correct?
Ms. Richards. Well, I tried to address this earlier, my
salary----
Mr. Carter. I understand.
Ms. Richards. Well, did you like--I'm sorry----
Mr. Carter. I'm just--yes, or no? Is that correct?
Ms. Richards. $520,000 is my annual salary, and there was a
benefit that was accrued to me over several years.
Mr. Carter. And $590,000 was your compensation in 2013?
Ms. Richards. It's set by the board of directors. And it's
important to me----
Mr. Carter. All I need to know is yes or no.
Ms. Richards. --no Federal funds go to my salary.
Mr. Carter. I understand. But $590,000, $590,000 was what
you were compensated in 2013, according to what you provided
this committee with, correct? Yes. That is----
Ms. Richards. Your Honor, you're answering your own
question.
Mr. Carter. All right. Okay.
Ms. Richards. I think I've answered the question.
Mr. Carter. Okay. Well, let me ask you about the travel for
Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood spent over $5 million on
travel in 2013. That's almost $14,000 a day.
Ms. Richards. Well, that----
Mr. Carter. Was that first class or was any of it chartered
jet?
Ms. Richards. Boy, that would be nice. No, I've never--I
don't fly first class.
Mr. Carter. But $14,000 a day.
Ms. Richards. We have 8 million supporters in this country.
We provide health care to 2.7 million people. We provide sex
education to 1.5 million people. And----
Mr. Carter. Is that number correct, $14,000 a day? Is that
correct?
Ms. Richards. I don't have the figures in front of me. But
I'm happy to look----
Mr. Carter. Okay. Well, that's what you provided and I just
want to make sure.
Ms. Richards. I'm happy to look at them.
Mr. Carter. Can you provide this committee, can you provide
this committee with the records that show the modes of travel
that you have taken, whether they have been first class or
whether they have been chartered jet? Can you break down that
travel?
Ms. Richards. I will work with the committee staff to
provide whatever we can on the questions that have been asked.
Mr. Carter. We appreciate that very much.
Let me ask you something----
Ms. Richards. Although I will say for the record, I do not
travel first class.
Mr. Carter. Neither do I, but I don't spend $14,000 a day
either.
Ms. Richards. Well, I have----
Mr. Carter. Nevertheless, let me ask you, you have made the
claim that many patients wouldn't have timely access to basic
reproductive health care if it weren't for the services of
Planned Parenthood. Yet, the U.S. Department of Health and
Human Services in 2015 said that there are almost 9,700
healthcare service delivery sites and over 4,000 rural health
clinics, including over 1,200 federally qualified health
centers operating over 9,000 sites in the United States.
How many clinics does Planned Parenthood operate? I believe
earlier you said 650 to 700?
Ms. Richards. It's between 650 and 700, depending.
Mr. Carter. But yet if that 650 to 700 were to go away,
these patients wouldn't have access to health care?
Ms. Richards. Well, I mean, I'm looking at the CBO report,
the Congressional Budget Office just came out with a report
that if Planned Parenthood, if women were unable to go to
Planned Parenthood, Medicaid patients or Title X patients,
390,000 women would immediately lose health care next year.
Mr. Carter. You know, the problem I have with that----
Ms. Richards. So I'm just--I'm reporting back what the
government reported.
Mr. Carter. --the problem I have with that is that the
Obama administration reports that there are over 13,000
publicly supported healthcare alternatives in the United
States. Have you seen that? Are you aware of that?
Ms. Richards. I haven't seen that.
Mr. Carter. That's what the Obama administration is telling
us. So that's almost eight times as many as Planned Parenthood
has. And out of those clinics, I mean, we've got almost--excuse
me, I misspoke--over 20 federally funded clinics as opposed to
every Planned Parenthood. Yet those federally funded clinics,
they don't have $100 million endowments. They don't have $70
million dollar Manhattan condo. They don't spend hundreds of
thousands of dollars on Grammy-winning performers performing at
their galas. They don't do any of those things. Yet, they are
able to provide services, needed services to women.
Why is it that Planned Parenthood has got to have that in
order to provide the same services? Do you believe----
Ms. Richards. Planned Parenthood----
Mr. Carter. Do you believe that they have to have that?
Ms. Richards. Well, I----
Mr. Carter. It's yes or no. That's all it is.
Ms. Richards. With all respect, that wasn't really a
question. I would say I really stand by the fact that we
provide health care to many, many women in this country who
have no other option.
Mr. Carter. The question is--the question, Ms. Richards,
the question was, have you got to have that in order to provide
health care to women?
Ms. Richards. We provide----
Mr. Carter. These other clinics don't have it and they
provide it.
Ms. Richards. Well, I'm not going to speak to every other
hospital, healthcare center, and FQHC in the country.
Mr. Carter. Do you think they have to have it in order to
provide health care to women?
Ms. Richards. I think we provide excellent health care to
women in this country. And I think the point here----
Mr. Carter. That's not the question. The question is, do
you have to have a $100 million endowment, $70 million condos?
I think not.
Ms. Richards. I don't know what----
Mr. Carter. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Ms. Richards. With respect, I think it's important that the
question here is, do low-income women in this country have the
right to choose wherever they want to go to for health care?
And 2.7 million of them choose Planned Parenthood.
Mr. Carter. Why don't you let them go to one of those $70
million condos in Manhattan?
Mr. Jordan. The gentlelady from Texas is recognized.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Chairman, thank you so much for the
courtesies extended. Let me thank the chairman of the full
committee for his courtesies, and to Mr. Cummings certainly for
his courtesies as well, for my participation in this very vital
hearing today.
I am a member of the Judiciary Committee as well, and we
held such a hearing some weeks ago. And so I can almost say dj
vu.
Let me thank Ms. Richards, first of all, as a fellow Texas,
to thank her for the legacy of her family that has always been
engaged in public service. And that's what I consider you and
Planned Parenthood as doing.
Coming from Texas, let me cite the Houston Planned
Parenthood offices, of which I have been in and walked through
and seen the clinics and seen individuals who fell into my arms
indicating that without Planned Parenthood they would not be
able to, in fact, have health care.
Let me ask you very quickly as my time goes, it may be, as
I have been listening this afternoon, that we have been mixing
more than apples and oranges. It might be apples and potatoes.
Because we are talking about abortion. When I say that, many of
these questions have come forward. And I just wanted to read
this quote from a Senator in Oklahoma in discussing Planned
Parenthood. ``My focus is to try to deal with the life issue.
Defunding Planned Parenthood is just a sideshow for the real
event.''
Has this come to your attention, Ms. Richards, that many
are talking about something that really has nothing to do with
your Federal funding?
Ms. Richards. Well, I do think it's been a bit of a theme.
And I think that is one thing I'd like to say. It's important
that I don't really believe that an organization, a healthcare
provider should be discriminated against for providing a legal
service, whether it's Planned Parenthood or a local community
hospital or anyone else.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Let me follow up as well and hold this up
and ask unanimous consent to place it into the record. And let
me cite for some of my colleagues: Ohio, 28 clinics, 80,000
patients, 66,000 on contraception, total sexually transmitted
diseases, 105,000; Texas, 38 clinics, 150,000 patients, and
108,000 on contraception, and others dealing with sexually
transmitted diseases. But if those clinics went away, then we
are talking about 28 in a big State like Ohio, 38 in Texas,
thousands of women losing access to health care. Is that not
correct, Ms. Richards?
Ms. Richards. That's correct.
Ms. Jackson Lee. And are you familiar with the Texas cases
which challenge or discuss the legislative initiative in 2014-
2015 that would literally implode clinics in Texas and the
Supreme Court decision that ruled in 2014 and 2015?
I think the United States Supreme Court, maybe based on Roe
v. Wade, maybe based on the fact that abortion services, which
are not part of the funding here, but in any event, just so my
colleagues would know that, in my State of Texas the law, the
State law would have cut off 75 percent of reproductive
healthcare clinics. The Supreme Court indicated that the Texas
law was unconstitutional, indicating that the separate work
that you do dealing with people's right to choose is a lawful
act and has nothing to do with Federal funding. Is that
correct?
Ms. Richards. I believe that's correct.
Ms. Jackson Lee. And the Supreme Court has indicated that
abortion, by law, is not illegal in those cases.
Ms. Richards. And I know a lot of these are still on
appeal. I do think since we both come from Texas, I think it is
important to know that when the State of Texas shut down the
Texas Women's Health Program and Planned Parenthood's ability
to serve women, there are 25 percent fewer women in Texas that
are receiving care as a result. And so I think that's why it's
so important that we don't ever put politics ahead of women's
health.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Let me get these last two questions in. As
a member of the House Judiciary Committee we deal a lot with
the FBI. So does this committee as well. Let me just ask you
about Mr. Daleiden's work. Is Mr. Daleiden a member of the
Federal Bureau of Investigation, to your knowledge?
Ms. Richards. Not to my knowledge.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Is he an FBI agent, to your knowledge?
Ms. Richards. Not to my knowledge.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Is he a member of the Department of
Justice.
Ms. Richards. I don't believe so.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Has the Health and Human Services ever
investigated, or investigated you, per se, about your Medicaid
reimbursements, meaning something that you have not been able
to answer or file in another filing?
Ms. Richards. We follow all of the laws at the State and
Federal level every day.
Ms. Jackson Lee. So Mr. Daleiden has been engaged in an
investigation, has no authorization, is not a member of the
FBI, which I would call dastardly and deceitful. So I'd ask you
this question: Are you aware that Mr. Daleiden has pleaded the
Fifth Amendment in some cases that he has engaged in?
Ms. Richards. I have read that in the paper.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Are you aware that it has been checked by
RH Reality Check that Mr. Daleiden stole the identity of the
president of the feminist club at Mr. Daleiden's high school?
Have you heard that?
Ms. Richards. I have also read that in the paper.
Ms. Jackson Lee. And let me cite not you, but RH Reality
Check. Would we then, Mr. Chairman, as I finish, would we then
say that we are here today to speak about the facts. And
therefore, are you saying on the record today that Planned
Parenthood does not use any Federal funding for anything that
is not authorized under the laws of the United States of
America?
Mr. Jordan. The time of the gentlelady has expired.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Can she answer that question?
Mr. Jordan. Of course.
Ms. Richards. We follow all the laws at the Federal and
State level, and whenever we find issues we take care of them
and address them.
Ms. Jackson Lee. I thank the gentleman for his courtesy. I
thank this committee for its courtesy. Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. Jordan. I thank the gentlelady.
The gentleman from Wisconsin is recognized.
Mr. Grothman. Thank you. A few questions. I would just like
to clear up some things.
First of all, you talk about the percentage of women who
are low income served by Planned Parenthood. I am under the
impression that for defining income, if you have a younger
person, a 21-year-old college student, or even a 16-year-old
high school girl, that for the purpose of defining income you
leave out the mother's income. So, for example, if a
billionaire's daughter who made $5,000 last year came to
Planned Parenthood, she would be considered low income. Is that
correct?
Ms. Richards. I would have to check on that. I don't know
of any billionaire's daughters that are coming to Planned
Parenthood, but I'm happy to look into that and to address your
question.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. I'm saying for the purpose of the
family planning waiver, I think it is pretty well-publicized
that, you know, both high school kids, college kids, they, for
the purpose of determining income, they look at their--they are
considered a family of one despite living with parents. Is that
true?
Ms. Richards. I'm happy to check on that.
Mr. Grothman. Okay.
Ms. Richards. And I think a lot of high school or college
women, they may--at that point they don't have the resources of
their parents, and a lot of young women do come to us because
they need family planning but can't talk to their families.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. The next question I have, when I look
at cities around me that have a Planned Parenthood clinic,
usually they are what, by Wisconsin standards, they are medium-
sized cities, 20-, 30-, 40,000 dollars. Usually in those cities
as a guy, I could go to many clinics locally that have all of
the machines that one would need. All of these clinics, as far
as I know, take Medicaid dollars. So, you know, you could go to
any of those clinics to get any medical service you could.
I guess what I'm getting at is, in my opinion, if Planned
Parenthood disappeared tomorrow in those towns there would
still be three or four or five clinics or hospitals providing
all the Medicare--all of the medical care you would want, and,
quite frankly, providing superior care to people who are on
Medicaid.
Ms. Richards. Well, I think we do provide superior medical
care, but, in any case----
Mr. Grothman. I'm saying superior care in the sense that on
Medicaid, without the deductibles and copays, it's usually
better insurance than other people have.
I guess what I'm saying is, it would seem to me, if Planned
Parenthood clinics were not around in those cities, with the
exception of a couple of abortion clinics, there would be three
or four other clinics available to do any women's health or
men's health or health of any nature whatsoever. Don't you feel
that's true?
Ms. Richards. Well, I don't. And I have been to Wisconsin a
lot. Obviously, you know more about Wisconsin than I do, but I
know we have 22 health centers in the State of Wisconsin. And,
last year, we provided--or the most recent year we have
figures, we provided health care to 65,000 people. And,
actually, I think we are the largest--don't quote me on this,
but I will check to make sure. But I think we're the largest
family-planning provider of the network in Wisconsin, so that's
pretty hard to replace.
Mr. Grothman. Well, no. I think you're not answering my
question.
Ms. Richards. Oh, I'm sorry.
Mr. Grothman. If you have a city in which there are four
clinics, full-service clinics that you could go to for anything
under the sun, and a Planned Parenthood clinic, I would assume
that if the Planned Parenthood clinic disappeared you would
have four or five other clinics to deal with anything that
Medicaid paid for.
Ms. Richards. Well, we just haven't seen that to be true. I
mean, I use the example of the State of Texas, where they
eliminated Planned Parenthood as an option in communities, and
25 percent of women lost access to care.
So I actually don't think--there are a number of reasons
that women go to Planned Parenthood. It's personal choice, as
well as availability, as well as the services we provide. And,
for many women, we are the provider that they think best meets
their healthcare needs. And I do think that's really, kind of,
what's at stake here.
Mr. Grothman. Okay.
You emphasized before the lack of ability of access to
health care for minorities. Do you feel that you have a special
role to fill there?
Ms. Richards. I'm sorry, I just--it's very hard to hear
you.
Mr. Grothman. Okay.
Ms. Richards. I apologize.
Mr. Grothman. Before, you emphasized that you felt there
was a lack of access of health care to minorities. Do you feel
that you have a special role to play there?
Ms. Richards. We have a special role to play for anyone who
is underserved, and that includes folks of low income, folks of
rural America, folks in areas of the country where there is
less public healthcare access. So it really is all across the
gamut.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. I'll give you one more question and
come back to the prior one. In Wisconsin, all of the Planned
Parenthood clinics are in sizable cities in which there are, as
far as I can see, probably multiple other medical providers.
Is there anywhere in the country that you know of, any
metropolitan area in which Planned Parenthood offers services
in which there are no other providers to take Medicaid dollars?
Ms. Richards. I--it's just beyond my--what I know. I can't
really respond to that.
But I think, again, if we're in 22 communities in
Wisconsin, which we are, according to these records, that's a
lot of--I'm not saying those aren't all decent-sized cities,
but that's a lot of rural community, as well.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
We'll now recognize the gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Palmer,
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you for being here, Ms. Richards.
Planned Parenthood Action engages in political activity; is
that correct?
Ms. Richards. The Planned Parenthood Action Fund, which is
a separate corporation, does.
Mr. Palmer. And you're compensated by that organization?
Ms. Richards. Well, I mean, my--I get compensation really
to reimburse for my costs----
Mr. Palmer. Yes or no, for brevity?
Ms. Richards. I'm just trying to explain. I'm sorry.
Mr. Palmer. I understand. And I know how these things work.
But the answer is yes or no, and I think you've already
answered it.
It's, what, $31,000? Is that about right?
Ms. Richards. I don't have the figures for last year, but
whatever my compensation was, it is for work that I do on
behalf of the Action Fund.
Mr. Palmer. Okay. Where does Planned Parenthood Action get
its funding?
Ms. Richards. Private donations. We have 8 million
supporters in this country and a number of donors from all
over, all over the country.
Mr. Palmer. And is there any money from Planned Parenthood
that goes to Planned Parenthood Action?
Ms. Richards. They're not--there is--the Planned Parenthood
Action Fund, which is--it does advocacy and it does electoral
work. There is advocacy work----
Mr. Palmer. But that--I know what they do. I'm asking----
Ms. Richards. Well, I think I'm trying to be responsive to
your question----
Mr. Palmer. I know, but for----
Ms. Richards. --right? So----
Mr. Palmer. --brevity's sake and out of respect----
Ms. Richards. Well----
Mr. Palmer. --for brevity's sake----
Ms. Richards. --as you know, for 501(c)(4) organizations,
they cannot do a majority of their work as electoral work.
That's under IRS Code.
Mr. Palmer. I understand.
Ms. Richards. And so more than 60----
Mr. Palmer. I understand that.
Ms. Richards. I think between 65 and 70 percent of the work
of the Action Fund is non-electoral.
Mr. Palmer. And you also have a PAC; is that correct?
Ms. Richards. Okay. Yeah. I was just going to--yeah. Yes,
there is a Federal PAC.
Mr. Palmer. All right. And that Federal PAC, how much--just
round figures, what did it spend in 2014?
Ms. Richards. How much the Federal PAC spent in 2014, I can
get that for you.
Mr. Palmer. Okay.
Ms. Richards. I'm not being evasive. It's obviously public
record. I just don't have it with me.
Mr. Palmer. Where do they--where does the PAC get its
money?
Ms. Richards. It raises its money from individuals----
Mr. Palmer. Are you compensated----
Ms. Richards. --and sometimes----
Mr. Palmer. Are you compensated by the PAC?
Ms. Richards. I don't believe I have any--have ever been
compensated by the PAC. Although I know that the Federal law
requires, if you are doing work on behalf of a Federal
candidate, I believe you actually have to--your time has to be
paid for by a PAC. So we follow all the----
Mr. Palmer. And do you have any oversight over the PAC?
Ms. Richards. --laws and regulations.
Mr. Palmer. Do you have any oversight over the PAC, any
managerial responsibility?
Ms. Richards. Sure. I mean, in some----
Mr. Palmer. Okay. Well, you're supposed to be compensated
if you do any work for the PAC. And you need to check that out.
Ms. Richards. Well, I just--I think----
Mr. Palmer. I want to go to this. In 2004, you founded a
group called America Votes, a coalition of 42 national
grassroots organizations focused on elections.
How many of these organizations collaborate with or are
incorporated into Planned Parenthood's political operation?
Ms. Richards. I'm sorry. You're asking me about a job I had
before Planned Parenthood; is that correct?
Mr. Palmer. That is correct.
Ms. Richards. Okay. But can you restate----
Mr. Palmer. With a focus on elections.
Ms. Richards. Sorry. Can you restate the question? We're
just out of--I was just out of context.
Mr. Palmer. How many of these organizations are
collaborating with or have been incorporated into Planned
Parenthood's political operation?
Ms. Richards. I really don't know. I----
Mr. Palmer. So I would assume that some do, because you
can't answer it. It's either a yes or no. Some have, or--
they're either there or they're not.
Ms. Richards. I really don't--well, I think you asked me
how many, and I said I don't know.
Mr. Palmer. Let me----
Ms. Richards. A lot of these organizations work together.
But I don't--again, we could get more information for you.
Mr. Palmer. That would be helpful.
You've got these high-paid executives. There's--
interestingly enough, 44 of your highest-paid executives make
more than any Cabinet member; 28 of them make more than any
member of the Cabinet. And you've got--that's over $200,000.
You've got another 11 who make over $300,000. That's more than
anybody in the Cabinet, any Supreme Court Justice, the Chief
Justice, the Vice President.
Ms. Richards. I don't think----
Mr. Palmer. You've got four that make more than the
President, not counting you.
Are any of them expected to make political contributions?
Ms. Richards. By who? I'm sorry.
Mr. Palmer. By you?
Ms. Richards. No.
Mr. Palmer. Do you direct political contributions to
candidates?
Ms. Richards. The PAC does.
Mr. Palmer. Yes, but do you----
Ms. Richards. It votes on it.
Mr. Palmer. --have any input in who gets----
Ms. Richards. No, but there is a PAC committee that votes
on it.
Mr. Palmer. Are you on that----
Ms. Richards. You're asking me a question, and I'm trying
to be responsive.
Mr. Palmer. Are you on that PAC committee?
Ms. Richards. I'm not on the PAC committee.
Mr. Palmer. Do you have any input into who gets political
contributions?
Ms. Richards. No. The PAC committee votes on----
Mr. Palmer. So there's no collaboration between you and the
PAC committee. You're saying for the record----
Ms. Richards. I haven't sat on a PAC committee meeting for
a long time.
Mr. Palmer. All right. Let me ask you----
Ms. Richards. But, I mean----
Mr. Palmer. --your PAC advertised itself----
Ms. Richards. --we operate absolutely--you know, we meet
the Federal laws and restrictions.
Mr. Palmer. I appreciate how you want to answer this.
Your PAC advertised itself as being nonpartisan. Yet, in
2014, 100 percent of the contributions went to Democrats; in
2012, 99 percent went to Democrats.
Ms. Richards. I actually don't believe that's accurate,
but----
Mr. Palmer. That's what's reported here.
Ms. Richards. Okay. Well, I'll go back and look, but we
support--we've done work on behalf of----
Mr. Palmer. I just----
Ms. Richards. We support anyone who supports women's
rights.
Mr. Palmer. Mr. Chairman, reclaiming my time.
I just want to point out that it's not nonpartisan and that
you've given almost--I mean, in every case, almost every dime
to Democrats, including to nine members of this committee.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Richards. Well, we welcome any Republican who supports
women's rights and women's healthcare access and--so thank you.
Chairman Chaffetz. The gentleman yields back.
We'll now recognize the gentleman from South Carolina, Mr.
Gowdy, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Gowdy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I have a couple of questions for Ms. Richards, and then I'm
going to yield whatever is remaining to the chairman.
Ms. Richards, Peter Welch sits right down there on the
other side. He's a gentleman from Vermont who's a Democrat.
Peter and I do not agree on very many issues, but there's not a
more well-regarded Member of our body, I don't think. And he
evidenced that today by making it crystal-clear that he makes
an effort to understand both the analysis and the conclusions
of those who may have a different position from the one that he
holds.
Do you understand how some of us may, at a base level,
disagree with you on the origin of life? Do you make that same
effort to understand that my friend from Vermont, Peter Welch,
makes?
Ms. Richards. I fully respect--and I think I spoke to this
in my opening statement with the chairman--that I understand
people have different feelings about whether abortion should be
legal in this country or not. I think it is important that it
is legal, and we can disagree. And I know thinking people
disagree about abortion.
And our goal at Planned Parenthood is to be judgment-free
and to allow people and women in particular to make their own
decisions about their pregnancies.
Mr. Gowdy. Well, we're going to get to the judgment-free
zone here in just a second. But you mentioned abortion. How
about partial-birth abortion? Do you understand how some of us
may support a ban on partial-birth abortion?
Ms. Richards. Well, I--I don't want to--I'm not trying to
be argumentative, but that was a political formulation, not a
medical formulation. But I certainly understand that it was
passed and is the law of the land, and Planned Parenthood
certainly meets the requirements of that law.
Mr. Gowdy. Well, my question wasn't whether you follow the
law. My question was whether or not you understand how some of
us may be very much opposed to that practice. That was my
question.
Ms. Richards. I understand how people can disagree based on
their religious beliefs, their background, their own personal
experiences. And I also understand that people sometimes change
over time. And that's the human condition.
Mr. Gowdy. Are you suggesting those who hold a contrary
view to you need to change? Is that why you added that line,
Ms. Richards?
Ms. Richards. No. I've just, candidly, in my 10 years at
Planned Parenthood, I've seen--I've experienced, myself, people
who have picketed outside of our health center and then found
themselves in need of our services, and we try not to judge----
Mr. Gowdy. And I'm sure that there have been employees who
grew tired of participating in the practices that they were
participating in, and they may have gone to the other side,
might they?
Ms. Richards. I----
Mr. Gowdy. How about opposing abortions on the basis of
gender or race? Can you understand how people may support
legislation that ban that?
Ms. Richards. As I tried to say, I appreciate that people
have a lot of different views on the issue of abortion, and
there's any number of different pieces of legislation you could
describe.
And I think, fundamentally, at Planned Parenthood, we take
the position that we trust women to make their decisions about
their pregnancies. I've made my own decisions, as well, and so
I feel like I walk----
Mr. Gowdy. Ms. Richards----
Ms. Richards. --I can kind of walk in these shoes.
Mr. Gowdy. Ms. Richards, I appreciate the way you like to
frame the issue, that you're the reasonable one and those of us
who have a contrary position are not reasonable.
Ms. Richards. I didn't say that.
Mr. Gowdy. No, that's exactly--that's exactly the last
answer you gave. That's exactly what it was, much like your
people evolve to a more advanced viewpoint, much like that
comment was also directed to that.
Ms. Richards. Those were not the words I said. I said
sometimes people change their opinions.
Mr. Gowdy. No, it's not always what you say. Sometimes it's
just what you mean.
Ms. Richards. Well, I----
Mr. Gowdy. In 2014--you disagreed with my colleague's 100-
percent figure. What percent of your money did go to Democrat
candidates in 2014 if it wasn't 100 percent?
Ms. Richards. I told him I will look. I know that we
support Republicans across the country. And I wish there were
more Republicans who----
Mr. Gowdy. Name me some. Name me some Republicans in
Congress that you support financially.
Ms. Richards. Well, we don't actually want--in this public
forum, I'm not going to raise their names because they have
been such the target of their fellow party members, but I'm
happy to provide that to you later.
Mr. Gowdy. Well, the donations are public.
Ms. Richards. Uh-huh. And some of them--yes. I'm not--I
don't know in terms of Federal office. I was thinking more
broadly in terms of support for candidates across the country.
I know there are Republicans that we support. And, again----
Mr. Gowdy. Well, let me ask you----
Ms. Richards. --we would like to support more Republicans
for office. We wish there was--we don't believe that women's
health or women's rights should be a partisan issue.
Mr. Gowdy. And we don't----
Ms. Richards. And I wish it weren't.
Mr. Gowdy. And we don't think eating dinner salads and
drinking wine while you're discussing infanticide--we have a
problem with that, too. So I'm sure you can understand why we
would be as viscerally opposed to what we saw in some of the
tapes, would you not?
Ms. Richards. I think we--I just think we may have a--I
feel like everything I've answered you've seen a different way.
So I respect your opinions, and I am always open to listening
to other people's opinions.
Chairman Chaffetz. The gentleman's time has expired. I
thank the gentleman.
We'll now recognize the gentleman from Iowa, Mr. Blum, for
5 minutes.
Mr. Blum. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Ms. Richards, for being here today. I think it's
down to you and I.
Ms. Richards. No kidding. Okay. We could do this somewhere
else.
Mr. Blum. Can you tell me briefly about your background?
Ms. Richards. I'm a Texan. I----
Mr. Blum. Your professional background.
Ms. Richards. My professional background.
Mr. Blum. What makes you qualified----
Ms. Richards. Oh, shoot. I thought you wanted to go back to
the beginning, because I was born in Waco, which I'm very proud
of.
I was a labor organizer for many years with low-wage
working women. I eventually had three kids, moved to
Washington, D.C. I had the honor of working for Leader Pelosi
for a period of time here on Capitol Hill. I've started a
couple of nonprofits. And then, about 10 years ago, I was hired
to be the president of Planned Parenthood.
Mr. Blum. Now, do you have any accounting in your
background, any finance in your background? Do you understand--
I assume you understand well accounting?
Ms. Richards. I have taken accounting courses as part of
my--fortunately, my board has been very kind and offered me
those kinds of--that kind of supplementary learning in my job.
But I have a--obviously, we have a chief financial officer, we
have an entire accounting department at Planned Parenthood that
I work with closely.
Mr. Blum. The reason I ask is, in a former life, I was a
public company CEO, so I know a fair amount about revenues,
expenses, overhead costs. So I'd like to talk a few minutes
with you about that.
What's your understanding of overhead?
Ms. Richards. Well----
Mr. Blum. What is overhead?
Ms. Richards. What is overhead?
Mr. Blum. Yes. What's overhead in Planned Parenthood?
Ms. Richards. Well, generally----
Mr. Blum. What are overhead expenses?
Ms. Richards. --generally, it's the cost of what things
that--just to keep the organization going. Is that what
you're----
Mr. Blum. Salaries? Building expenses? Rent?
Ms. Richards. It really depends on--it depends on what
you're talking about. If we're in a grant, it could be--
potentially, overhead could be considered. It really just
depends.
But, yes, of course, all organizations, I assume, and the
one you ran, as well, we have an office, we have staff, we have
electricity, and----
Mr. Blum. It must be considerable in a half-a-billion-
dollar corporation, or nonprofit. The overhead must be
considerable. It has to be, to run that big of an organization.
Ms. Richards. Well, I guess it depends on your definition
of ``considerable.'' But, yeah, we have a very dedicated staff.
And we provide health care to a lot of people, education to a
lot of people. And so, yes, it requires----
Mr. Blum. Do you profit or make money on abortion services?
Ms. Richards. So I've--I think we've discussed this many
times, and I'll just try to take it one more time.
So I run the national office. We do not provide abortion
services. We have provided to this committee, if you're on the
committee, all of the financial information about the national
organization, our audited financial statements, our 990s.
Mr. Blum. Do your providers----
Ms. Richards. And we've also supplied----
Mr. Blum. --make money on abortion services? Your
providers, do they make money? Your individual affiliated
offices, do they make money providing abortions?
Ms. Richards. I think you're----
Mr. Blum. In general.
Ms. Richards. In general? There is no general. I mean, we
are a nonprofit. There's three sources of income. There are
Federal and public funds----
Mr. Blum. I'm talking about individual abortion, though.
Ms. Richards. --there are donations, and there are----
Mr. Blum. If someone cannot afford to--what's an abortion
cost?
Ms. Richards. It depends, depending on the State, depending
on----
Mr. Blum. What if someone can't pay for it?
Ms. Richards. --the procedure. Excuse me?
Mr. Blum. What if someone can't pay for the abortion?
Ms. Richards. We raise private dollars to try to help women
who cannot afford abortion services. If they choose--if they
choose that they want an abortion and they can't afford it, we
try to raise money to help supplement the cost of an abortion.
Mr. Blum. Only through private donations do you make up the
difference is what you're saying.
Ms. Richards. Well, I don't, but----
Mr. Blum. Correct?
Ms. Richards. --our 59 affiliates have a variety of
donors----
Mr. Blum. Does Planned Parenthood make a profit or make
money on reimbursement of Medicaid services?
Ms. Richards. We don't make a profit on anything. But in
terms of Medicaid----
Mr. Blum. Well, it depends on how you----
Ms. Richards. Okay. Let's just----
Mr. Blum. You have 127 million----
Ms. Richards. Let's talk about Medicaid.
Mr. Blum. --excess dollars every year.
Ms. Richards. Medicaid is very--yeah, Medicaid is very
easy. Medicaid reimburses. And, as you know, across the
country, Medicaid rates vary widely. In some States, they come
closer to paying for the cost of the services. In a lot of
States, we actually have to raise private donations to
supplement what it costs for----
Mr. Blum. So you may make money on some Medicaid
reimbursement services, correct?
Ms. Richards. I don't know that anyone does, but I'd be
happy to find out.
Mr. Blum. And I'm sure you're well aware it's against
Federal law to use taxpayer funds for abortions----
Ms. Richards. I'm abundantly clear on----
Mr. Blum. --except for rape, incest, and life of the
mother.
Ms. Richards. --abundantly clear on that. And we are
heavily regulated, as HHS regulates Medicaid services.
Mr. Blum. Are you saying today with 100-percent surety that
not one dime of taxpayer money is used to provide abortions?
Ms. Richards. What I said earlier----
Mr. Blum. I mean, yes or no, 100-percent surety?
Ms. Richards. No, because, actually----
Mr. Blum. Because that is against the law.
Ms. Richards. The Federal law allows for Federal dollars to
pay for abortion services in very rare----
Mr. Blum. Correct.
Ms. Richards. --instances: rape----
Mr. Blum. So other than those instances.
Ms. Richards. --incest, and the life of the mother. We
don't use any Federal dollars for any abortion services except
for those that are----
Mr. Blum. What about the profits generated from----
Ms. Richards. --permitted by law.
Mr. Blum. --those Federal dollars? Are any of those used to
cover abortion services?
Ms. Richards. Sorry. We were kind of talking over
ourselves. You'll have to repeat it. I just didn't hear.
Mr. Blum. The profits generated from taxpayer-funded
sources, such as Medicaid reimbursements, are any of those
profits used----
Ms. Richards. I don't believe----
Mr. Blum. --to help cover the cost of abortions?
Ms. Richards. No. And I don't believe there--I will
absolutely--we can go through all of our 990s, happy to go
through with the committee, but I don't believe there are any
profits from any Medicaid services in this country.
As I've said, one of--that's one of the issues we're
addressing here, is there are too few people willing to take
Medicaid patients, because often the Medicaid payments do not
pay for the cost of birth control, a pap smear, a breast exam,
and the like.
Mr. Blum. And what's critically important is how you
apportion----
Chairman Chaffetz. The gentleman's----
Mr. Blum. --or apply the overhead services.
Chairman Chaffetz. Sorry. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Blum. I'm sorry. I yield back.
Chairman Chaffetz. Thank you.
We'll now recognize the gentlewoman from Tennessee, Ms.
Black, for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Black. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank you for
allowing me to sit in on this committee.
And I thank the witness for being here today.
Ms. Richards, on September the 18th of this year, you
stated that H.R. 3134, the Defund Planned Parenthood Act of
2015, would, and I quote, ``block access for folks who deserve
high-quality, compassionate care,'' close quote.
Now, Ms. Richards, I would like an opportunity for you, as
I ask you these questions, to give you an opportunity to change
these false claims.
So I wrote the Defund Planned Parenthood Act of 2015, so
let me tell you what it does do. It does not--it does not
reduce public health funding by a single dime, and it would, in
fact, increase that funding for community health centers by
$235 million.
Were you aware of these facts when you made that statement?
Ms. Richards. Congresswoman, we've discussed many times
today that, in fact, the Congressional Budget Office estimated
that if----
Mrs. Black. Reclaiming my time----
Ms. Richards. --women were denied the ability to go to
Planned Parenthood, 390----
Mrs. Black. Reclaiming my time, you said it would block
access. It would block access.
Now----
Ms. Richards. For our patients, it would block access.
Mrs. Black. --yes or no, Ms. Richards, do you acknowledge
that community health centers outnumber Planned Parenthood
clinics by roughly 20 to 1?
Ms. Richards. I don't know the exact number. I know there's
more community health centers than there are Planned
Parenthoods.
Mrs. Black. So you will acknowledge that they outnumber
Planned Parenthood clinics.
Ms. Richards. I'm happy to acknowledge that.
Mrs. Black. Okay.
And yes or no, Ms. Richards, do you acknowledge that these
facilities funded under my bill provide a broader range--these
facilities actually provide a broader range of services than
what is offered at Planned Parenthood--for instance,
mammograms?
Ms. Richards. I'm not an expert on what all community
health centers provide. I know we work in close collaboration
with them, and, in fact, often they send us their patients that
they can't see for birth control.
Mrs. Black. But you will acknowledge that you do not
provide mammograms, which was acknowledged in this committee
today?
Ms. Richards. We've never made any----
Mrs. Black. So that would say that they do actually provide
more extensive services than what you provide there at Planned
Parenthood.
Ms. Richards. What I said to you, though, is I don't know
what all the community health centers provide. We're very clear
about what we do provide at Planned Parenthood and about the
number of women who voluntarily choose to come to us because of
our care----
Mrs. Black. So, reclaiming my time again, because I have
just a very short period of time.
So knowing that the House-passed bill actually increases
public health funding and redirects those Federal dollars to
clinics that offer more preventative health care than Planned
Parenthood, you can't substantiate your claim that the bill
blocks access to care. It does not block access to care.
Now, I do want to just end this by saying----
Ms. Richards. I simply disagree.
Mrs. Black. --that you had a statement that you made, that
quality, affordable health care is your entire mission. And you
made that statement. I actually wrote it down when you made it.
Why would you not make an executive decision, then, to
temporarily discontinue your abortion services, which only
represents, by your testimony, 3 percent of the services that
you provide, and continue providing what you consider to be
your entire mission of 97 percent of the services provided?
Ms. Richards. Well, because abortion is a legal service in
America.
Mrs. Black. But----
Ms. Richards. And we think it's important that women--you
quoted me as saying quality, affordable health care, and that
includes access to quality and affordable abortion services, as
well.
Mrs. Black. But you acknowledge that--do you say abortion
is health care? Do you consider that health care?
Ms. Richards. Yes, it's a healthcare service for women. In
fact, 3 in 10 women in this country have accessed an abortion
at some point.
Mrs. Black. So you define health care--abortion as health
care.
Ms. Richards. It absolutely is part of women's health care,
and women will tell--I think women would agree.
Mrs. Black. Well, I'm a nurse, and if you look at medicine,
abortion is not health care. It is not considered to be health
care.
Now, let me turn to one other thing that you continue----
Ms. Richards. We just simply agree to disagree on this
matter.
Mrs. Black. Well, let's look at the definition.
But let me just finish up here, because you have continued
to say that these videos were doctored. Are you aware of a
report that just came out today that has been released by
Coalfire that shows in their report--and they say the
``forensic analysis removes any doubt that the full-length
undercover videos released by the Center for Medical Progress
are authentic and have not been manipulated. Analysts
scrutinized every second of video recorded during the
investigation released by CMP to date and found only bathroom
breaks and other non-pertinent footage had been removed.''
I would say, if you were to compare the two companies now
that have done this investigation, you see Coalfire has
reported on every second of those released audio and video
investigation footage as opposed to the Fusion report, which
only had four full-length videos.
So I think this discussion, Mr. Chairman, is still yet to
be had about just what these videos do show and the fact that
they perhaps, coming from Fusion, are not doctored.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentlewoman.
The end is in sight. Ms. Richards, you've been
exceptionally kind with your time, and generous. We have a
couple of cleanups that we need to do here, a couple other
questions, and then we will be concluding.
We'll start by recognizing the gentleman from Ohio, Mr.
Jordan.
Mr. Jordan. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Richards, since the videos surfaced, has anyone from
CMS or HHS contacted you, any of your board members, or any of
your staff?
Ms. Richards. Since the videos surfaced----
Mr. Jordan. Surfaced, July 14. Has anyone from the Health
and Human Services or CMS contacted you or anyone on your staff
or board?
Ms. Richards. I don't know. I could--I don't know.
Mr. Jordan. We need the answer to that.
Ms. Richards. That's a--I mean, we have a very big staff,
so----
Mr. Jordan. Has anyone from the inspector general's office
at HHS contacted you, anyone on your board, any one of your
staff?
Ms. Richards. If you're going to ask me about everything--
about any contact with any--we have a big board, and we have a
very big staff. So I'm--I can't really----
Mr. Jordan. Has the Attorney General of the United States,
Loretta Lynch, contacted you----
Ms. Richards. No.
Mr. Jordan. --contacted Planned Parenthood, anyone at
Planned Parenthood?
Ms. Richards. Well, she may have--I don't know. I----
Mr. Jordan. You don't know?
Ms. Richards. I have hundreds of staff, and we have a very
large board.
Mr. Jordan. Has anyone from the Justice Department
contacted Planned Parenthood since the videos surfaced?
Ms. Richards. And I'm telling you I don't know if you're
asking about everybody that's involved in Planned Parenthood--
--
Mr. Jordan. You don't know? So, I mean, if the Justice
Department would contact Planned Parenthood, it would seem the
person who's in charge of Planned Parenthood would know the
answer to that question. You don't know?
Ms. Richards. Well, we have a very large staff. And so
you're asking me----
Mr. Jordan. But you're here testifying, the videos and the
funding and everything else in front of a congressional
committee. And I'm just asking----
Ms. Richards. Mr. Jordan----
Mr. Jordan. I mean, there's potentially four crimes that--
potentially, we don't know, but may--four crimes may--
transferring fetal tissue for valuable consideration, changing
the procedure to obtain--to solely obtain tissue, doing this
without patients' consent, and performing partial-birth--
there's potentially four Federal crimes. And all I'm asking is,
has the Justice Department contacted you?
Ms. Richards. What you asked me not is whether they had
contacted me. You asked if they had contacted anyone at Planned
Parenthood or anyone on our board.
Mr. Jordan. You're here representing Planned Parenthood.
Have they contacted Planned Parenthood?
Ms. Richards. And I said to you I will find out. I don't
know.
Mr. Jordan. Since the videos have surfaced, have you had
any conversations with the President of the United States?
Ms. Richards. No, I have not.
Mr. Jordan. Since the videos have surfaced, have you been
to the White House?
Ms. Richards. No, I have not.
Mr. Jordan. How many times have you been to the White
House?
Ms. Richards. During what period of time?
Mr. Jordan. Since Mr. Obama's been President.
Ms. Richards. I don't know. That's been, I think, 7 years,
so I would have to get back to you on that.
Mr. Jordan. Our count shows that you, your board members,
and senior staff have been to the White House 151 times in 6 1/
2 years. I'm just curious--that's why I asked the question--if
you've been to the White House or you talked to the President
since these videos have surfaced.
Ms. Richards. And I said I had not.
Mr. Jordan. And you'll get back with me on if the Justice
Department has contacted you since these videos have surfaced.
Ms. Richards. Well, I think you listed several folks, so
I'm happy to work with the committee and find out what all you
need to know.
Mr. Jordan. CMS, HHS, inspector general, Justice
Department. Justice Department is the most important.
Ms. Richards. I'll work with the committee staff and work
with my team.
Mr. Jordan. I would--I thank the chairman. I'll yield to
the gentleman from South Carolina.
Mr. Mulvaney. Thank you.
Ms. Richards, I want to follow up very briefly on the line
of questioning that Mr. Clay had earlier this afternoon. He
asked you if any--if there were any Federal funds being used in
what he termed the tissue transfer program.
Do you remember that question, ma'am?
Ms. Richards. It's been--I'll be honest, it's been a long
day.
Mr. Mulvaney. That's fine. Well, he did ask you, and I
think--my recollection is that you said no, and then you
paused, and then you said not that you were aware of, and then
he continued the question.
That caught my attention----
Ms. Richards. Okay.
Mr. Mulvaney. --because it struck me that the answer to
that question should be an unmitigated no, not no, not that you
are or I am aware of. So let me ask you this----
Ms. Richards. Well, I certainly don't believe so. Again,
it's--I've been here for several hours, and so I'm just being--
--
Mr. Mulvaney. Fair enough, but let's start from scratch and
just say----
Ms. Richards. --just trying to be very careful.
Mr. Mulvaney. Okay. Are any Federal funds being used in
relation to what we have described here today as the tissue
transfer program?
Ms. Richards. I do not believe so.
Mr. Mulvaney. Okay. Since that is other than an unmitigated
no, I'm going to ask you some followup questions.
Have you done any investigation to find out if Federal
funds have been used in that program?
Ms. Richards. I don't believe they have been, and so there
hasn't been any need for any investigation into that. But I'm
certainly happy to get back to you on it.
Mr. Mulvaney. No, you don't have to--I think you answered
the question. I asked you if you had done any investigation,
and you said no.
Ms. Richards. Well, because I don't think it's been a----
Mr. Mulvaney. That's fine. I mean, that's your motivation.
You may not care. But the answer to my question is----
Ms. Richards. I did not say I do not care. And I----
Mr. Mulvaney. You could say you couldn't have time, but the
point of the matter is, you have not done any investigation on
this point, correct?
Ms. Richards. That's not what I said. I said I'm not aware,
and I will absolutely be happy to get back to you----
Mr. Mulvaney. Okay. Then let me----
Ms. Richards. --and it's not because I don't care, and it's
not because I don't pay attention, at all.
Mr. Mulvaney. Again, not trying to put words in your mouth,
Ms. Richards, but let me ask the question again. Have you done
any investigation as to whether or not any Federal funds have
been used in the tissue transfer program?
Okay. By the way, who's the bald guy sitting behind you? Is
he a lawyer?
Voice. I'm a lawyer.
Mr. Mulvaney. Okay. That's fine. Could you--what is your
name, sir?
Voice. I represent Planned Parenthood.
Chairman Chaffetz. Hold on, hold on.
Mr. Mulvaney. That's fine. I just want to know who you are,
because you actually----
Chairman Chaffetz. The questions will go to the witness.
Mr. Mulvaney. Okay. Then I'll ask the witness----
Ms. Richards. Okay. I'm happy to get back to you on this,
and I really----
Mr. Mulvaney. No. No, no, no. No. I'm asking you a
question. Have you----
Ms. Richards. And I think I've answered it as many times as
I can answer. And I am sorry that my answer isn't satisfactory
to you. I've been here 5 hours now, and I'm trying to just make
sure I'm as responsive as I can be, so----
Mr. Mulvaney. Okay. So just so the record is clear----
Ms. Richards. Okay.
Mr. Mulvaney. --because there's a young lady here making a
record of this, I'm going to ask the question one more time,
and then you can give me the answer that you deem to be
responsive to this question.
Have you made any investigation into whether or not Federal
funds have been used in the transfer of fetal tissue or fetal
parts?
Ms. Richards. I have not made any investigation to that
specific question.
Mr. Mulvaney. Okay. Thank you. Is it possible, then----
Chairman Chaffetz. I think----
Mr. Mulvaney. --that Federal money is being used for that
program?
Ms. Richards. I don't believe so.
Mr. Mulvaney. But that's not based on an investigation, is
it?
Ms. Richards. I feel like we're kind of--I think we just
keep repeating the same questions.
Mr. Mulvaney. No, it'll end the discussion today, but it
certainly won't end it.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Chaffetz. I thank the gentleman.
A few things just for followup, just so--we've had hours'
worth of discussion. There are some things that we would like
to follow up. So I'd like to go through that list as we
conclude. Then we'll recognize Mr. Cummings, and then I will
wrap up.
We would like to get the name and number of affiliates that
received the majority of their revenues from abortion services.
If there's clarification as to what we are looking for, let me
know, but this is--that is one question.
Ms. Richards. I'm just going to try to write it down as you
go.
Chairman Chaffetz. Yeah. And you've got plenty of staff
there. They'll write it down. I don't mean to have to have you
take notes. But if you have a question, I want you to be able
to ask me as we're kind of doing this.
We are looking for the amount of revenue by affiliate for
abortion services. So you had the--that should be pretty
straightforward.
We would like to know which affiliates provide which
services.
Ms. Richards. I believe you have that, but I'm happy--we're
happy to provide that.
Chairman Chaffetz. We're still--we want to make sure we've
got it crystal-clear. I think we have portions of it, but we
don't have all of it.
Ms. Richards. Okay.
Chairman Chaffetz. The names of organizations and the
countries that Planned Parenthood gives funds to overseas. So,
based on the tax returns and reports, you're sending money to
overseas. Some of them that have been listed as investments;
some have been listed as other things.
We'd like to get some detail and specificity as to how much
is going to which countries and what those are for. Is that
fair?
Ms. Richards. I really have to talk to my team about that,
but I will.
Chairman Chaffetz. Is that--okay.
Ms. Richards. And I'm happy to talk to the committee staff
about what it is they're trying----
Chairman Chaffetz. That's great. A lot of this will be
followup with committee staff. I just want to make sure that
we're on the record, what we're asking for.
We obviously have some concerns about the Planned
Parenthood Action Fund. So we're trying to get to the duties
performed and compensation received for all Planned Parenthood
or affiliate employees. This can be either by--for the Planned
Parenthood Action Fund or for either of the--I believe there
are two 527 organizations.
One of our concerns is the shared services and the sharing
of employees between political activities and nonpolitical
activities. And we would like to understand how broad-based
that is.
Ms. Richards. Okay.
Chairman Chaffetz. Okay.
The cost of reimbursement for both contraception and
abortion. And abortion, obviously, breaks down into in-clinic
as well as the pill.
Ms. Richards. Actually, there's a lot of other kinds of
contraception too.
Chairman Chaffetz. Yes. Contraception I left as broad as I
could, but for the abortion services----
Ms. Richards. I'm just saying I think it's important. I'm
not sure we really got into much of that conversation about how
birth control--how many different kinds of birth control there
are now. Because it's one of our specialties.
Chairman Chaffetz. Okay. Well, help us understand what
services and money you're allocated and what the costs of that
are. Because there were some points that should be helping to
drive down those costs, and we're just not understanding the
ratio and why----
Ms. Richards. Yes, I think there was some--I mean, I----
Chairman Chaffetz. Yeah.
Ms. Richards. That's why----
Chairman Chaffetz. It needs clarification. And I'm not
asking for it----
Ms. Richards. It was clear that folks weren't aware of the
various costs of different kinds of contraception.
Chairman Chaffetz. Exactly. And that's where we need help.
Not right now, just as a followup.
We would appreciate--the travel seems excessive to us. Now,
we're looking at it from afar; there may be a very plausible
explanation. But when you have a nonprofit organization who
says they're trying to put every dollar they can towards
women's health and then people are buying first-class tickets
and getting private aircraft and chartered aircraft, we'd just
like to have an explanation of that. Fair enough?
Ms. Richards. Yeah, I have no idea where that's coming
from. But I'm making a list.
Chairman Chaffetz. It's in the tax returns.
Ms. Richards. I'm making a list.
Chairman Chaffetz. That's where we see it. That's where we
see it. There's boxes to check for certain things. And we would
appreciate some clarification.
Ms. Richards. Happy to provide.
Chairman Chaffetz. A list of political organizations
Planned Parenthood collaborates with, including the names and
compensation of received and shared employees. I think I
covered that in general, but--I'll keep going. You understand
what our question there is.
And then, if there are political donations to Democrats and
Republicans, I think most of that is probably, financially, is
probably publicly disclosed, but if you could help us with
that.
That's a lot.
Let me yield now, or let me recognize the gentleman from
Maryland, and then we will wrap up.
Mr. Cummings. As I listen to the questions that you have to
answer and the information that you've just been asked to
provide, I cannot help but think about the IRS. Our Republican
friends said that there were certain organizations that people
in the IRS didn't like. They even accused the President. And
then they decided that they--they said it was unfair. And I
understand what they were saying, to go through and ask the
same kind of things that he's asking you for. I just want to
make--I just--it just hit me as I'm sitting here and I'm
listening to all of this. I think it's something that we ought
to give some serious thought to.
Ms. Richards, I want to thank you for your testimony.
You know, as I was sitting here, I was just thinking about
a question--some questions that were asked of you earlier. And
the implication was, in even asking the question, that you do
not respect those who may have a different view with regard to
abortion.
And, you know, I think that that is such--so unfair.
Because I think--I have heard very few people in this Congress
ridicule us if one group believes that a woman should have
control over her own body and should be able to choose abortion
if she likes, she and her family and, you know, her God, if she
makes that decision, and then the other ones who don't believe
in abortion. I have not. And I've been here 20 years.
I think we basically respect each other's opinions, period.
I mean, is that--right? I mean, you respect----
Ms. Richards. Yes.
Mr. Cummings. Because a lot of this is a real personal
thing. Am I right?
Ms. Richards. Absolutely. It is.
Mr. Cummings. But there's one thing that we seem to be sort
of glossing over and sort of moving around: It is the law. I
mean, it's the law. You may not like the law, but it's the law.
And you are doing what is within the bounds of the law.
And, you know, there are a lot of things I don't like, a
lot of laws I don't like. But I still live in the United States
of America, and there is a system of government. And, as a
lawyer and as a Member of the Congress, I'm sworn to uphold
those laws. Now, I might want to change them. I'll do
everything in my power to change the ones I don't like. But, in
the meantime, that's where I am.
So I just want to make sure that, you know, that nobody
walks out of here saying, oh, you know--because people have
differing views does not mean that you don't respect the other
person's view. I've never gotten that impression from you. I've
read a lot of things you've written. And so is that accurate?
Is that a fair statement?
Ms. Richards. Well, I hope I've showed today that I have
total respect for this Congress, I have respect for people of
different points of views. And I really think that's--it is
important that we show a respect for people who may make
different decisions in their lives.
And I think we need less judgment and more empathy in this
country for people who may simply have different circumstances
that we can never know about.
Mr. Cummings. Now, Mr. Chairman, I just have a few
questions of you so that we'll be real clear. I would just like
to ask a couple of clarifying questions to help our members
understand what our next steps are.
Republicans have announced that they plan to establish a
new select subcommittee--and I don't know how much you know
about all this, but I've got to ask--to take over this
investigation. The question is, will that subcommittee have
jurisdiction going forward, or will the Oversight Committee
continue this investigation of Planned Parenthood? Do you know?
Chairman Chaffetz. It's the intention of the committee to
continue to pursue the duly issued subpoena and obtaining all
the videos.
According to the information I have from the Speaker, the
body will consider a bill--I think it's a bill; maybe it's
under a different structure--next week for the formation of
this select panel. It may be empowered with subpoena authority.
We're not sure, haven't seen that yet. But the Speaker
indicated this morning that that will come before the body next
week.
Mr. Cummings. Now, as we both know, when the Benghazi
Select Committee was created, all of the standing committees
had to turn over all of their records to the select committee.
Is that what we are going to do? Is that consistent with what
you know so far?
Chairman Chaffetz. I don't know.
Mr. Cummings. All right.
And do you know whether this new select committee--
subcommittee will be given additional taxpayer funding to pay
to investigate the Planned Parenthood?
Chairman Chaffetz. I don't know the structure, I don't know
the length, I don't know the powers, and I don't know the
funding.
Mr. Cummings. And my last question--and I was unclear on
your response to a question on this earlier. Do you plan to
invite Mr. Daleiden to testify? And if so, when do you plan to
do that, if so?
Chairman Chaffetz. We need to, A, clarify the disposition
of these videos. Given that there's a temporary restraining
order, we need to have that loosened up. When we obtain all of
those videos, we'll work in partnership with you and develop a
plan on how to deal with those.
I don't know what the structure of this new select
committee, how that affects it, but we'll cross that bridge
when we get to it. The first step is to obtain all the videos,
and I'm glad to see you agree with us.
Mr. Cummings. Yes, definitely.
The reason that I'm asking is because all of the Democrats
on this committee have requested a minority day of hearings
with Mr. Daleiden under the House rules. If our committee is
going to yield to the new select subcommittee, then we may
consider withdrawing our request. But if our committee is going
to continue in addition to the select subcommittee, then we may
very well insist on our rights to have Mr. Daleiden testify.
Can you shed any light on this?
Chairman Chaffetz. Again, the first step is getting all the
videos, and, at that point, we'll make a determination.
Mr. Cummings. To reserve our rights, I'm going to submit
our September 21 letter for the record requesting a minority
day of hearings.
Mr. Cummings. But I look forward to talking with you
further about this issue, as we've been working together
extremely well. But I want to make sure I protect our members'
rights.
Chairman Chaffetz. Very good. I appreciate it.
Mr. Cummings. And last but not least, again, Ms. Richards,
I want to thank you for your cooperation. You have been
extremely cooperative. We have not always had that. You got a
lot of compliments from up here about the cooperation you have
provided, and we really do appreciate it.
And, on behalf of so many women, people like my mother-in-
law and so many others, I want to thank you. Because I know of
so many women who, if it were not for Planned Parenthood, would
be in a terrible way. And so thank you very much.
Ms. Richards. Thank you.
Chairman Chaffetz. Ms. Richards, again, thank you for your
participation here today. You've been very generous with your
time. I think you've honestly tried to share your thoughts and
perspectives.
I know it's hard and a long day, but we do appreciate your
willingness to voluntarily come, provide your testimony in
advance, all the things that we look for. We do appreciate
that.
With that, the committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:20 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
APPENDIX
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