[House Hearing, 114 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
EXAMINING VA'S ON-THE-JOB TRAINING AND APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAM
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
of the
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 2015
__________
Serial No. 114-46
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
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Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov
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COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
JEFF MILLER, Florida, Chairman
DOUG LAMBORN, Colorado CORRINE BROWN, Florida, Ranking
GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida, Vice- Minority Member
Chairman MARK TAKANO, California
DAVID P. ROE, Tennessee JULIA BROWNLEY, California
DAN BENISHEK, Michigan DINA TITUS, Nevada
TIM HUELSKAMP, Kansas RAUL RUIZ, California
MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire
BRAD R. WENSTRUP, Ohio BETO O'ROURKE, Texas
JACKIE WALORSKI, Indiana KATHLEEN RICE, New York
RALPH ABRAHAM, Louisiana TIMOTHY J. WALZ, Minnesota
LEE ZELDIN, New York JERRY McNERNEY, California
RYAN COSTELLO, Pennsylvania
AMATA RADEWAGEN, American Samoa
MIKE BOST, Illinois
Jon Towers, Staff Director
Don Phillips, Democratic Staff Director
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
BRAD WENSTRUP, Ohio, Chairman
LEE ZELDIN, New York MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking
AMATA RADEWAGEN, American Samoa Member
RYAN COSTELLO, Pennsylvania DINA TITUS, Nevada
MIKE BOST, Illinois KATHLEEN RICE, New York
JERRY McNERNEY, California
Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of rule XI of the Rules of the House, public
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the
current publication process and should diminish as the process is
further refined.
C O N T E N T S
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Wednesday, November 18, 2015
Page
Examining VA's On-The-Job Training And Apprenticeship Program.... 1
OPENING STATEMENTS
Honorable Brad Wenstrup, Chairman................................ 1
Honorable Mark Takano, Ranking Member............................ 2
WITNESSES
Mr. Andrew Sherrill, Director, Education, Workforce, and Income
Security, U.S. Government Accountability Office................ 3
Prepared Statement........................................... 21
Dr. Joseph W. Wescott, Legislative Director, National Association
of State Approving Agencies.................................... 5
Prepared Statement........................................... 25
MG Robert M. Worley II USAF (Ret.), Director, Education Service,
Veterans Benefit Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans
Affairs........................................................ 6
Prepared Statement........................................... 28
Mr. Eric Seleznow, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Employment and
Training Administration, U.S. Department of Labor.............. 8
Prepared Statement........................................... 30
EXAMINING VA'S ON-THE-JOB TRAINING AND APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAM
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Wednesday, November 18, 2015
Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
U. S. House of Representatives,
Washington, D.C.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:01 p.m., in
Room 334, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Brad Wenstrup
[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Wenstrup, Costello, Takano, Rice,
and McNerney.
Also Present: Representative Coffman.
OPENING STATEMENT OF BRAD WENSTRUP, CHAIRMAN
Mr. Wenstrup. Good afternoon, everyone. I want to welcome
you all to the Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity's hearing
today entitled ``Examining VA's On-the-Job Training and
Apprenticeship Program.''
Before we begin, I want to ask unanimous consent that our
colleague, Mr. Coffman, be allowed to sit up at the dais and
ask questions. And he will be here shortly.
Hearing no objection, so ordered.
Expanding employment and training opportunities for
veterans is the core mission of this Subcommittee, and today we
are here to review what I believe is one of the best but
unknown and underutilized programs designed to help veterans
achieve economic success.
By using VA's OJT and Apprenticeship Program, veterans are
able to supplement their incomes with both the living stipend
payments from the VA for the Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits, as
well as the wages from their employer while they are a trainee,
and at the end of their training program, they are able to step
right into a beneficial career. I don't know of many majors or
programs at institutions of higher learning that can promise a
job at the end of their programs, and that is what makes this
program so special.
Despite the many positives of using this program, very few
veterans have used this benefit, which caused the Subcommittee
and our colleague, Mr. Coffman, to be concerned that VA has
room for improvement in promoting this program at TAP or
through their marketing materials for the Post-9/11 GI Bill.
That is why we asked GAO to conduct their study and issue the
report that is the focus of the hearing today.
Unfortunately, GAO confirmed what this Subcommittee
believed and found that for those who find out about these
programs it is very beneficial. However, most veterans don't
realize that this type of program even exists and VA is not
doing a sufficient job of educating transitioning veterans on
the option of using the OJT and Apprenticeship Program.
I was troubled to read that the administration of this
program seems to be trapped in basically 20th century methods.
GAO found that OJT payments are still completed in a paper-
based system that is inefficient and burdensome, to quote them,
and relies on participating training programs to mail or fax in
certification forms that allow veterans to be paid. In fact,
GAO's report found that almost half of the employers they
interviewed had to resubmit monthly certifications because VA
officials had lost them or not received them.
Ladies and gentlemen, it is no wonder that the VA has had a
hard time finding businesses that want to participate in this
program if they are forced to fax or mail in forms to the VA. I
simply don't understand why in the year 2015 we are still
relying on the U.S. Postal Service or a fax machine to submit
VA paperwork. So I am interested in hearing from VA on how it
plans to address this issue and join the 21st century.
Equally troubling is the finding in this report that the VA
does not track any type of outcomes for veterans who use the
OJT and Apprenticeship Program. GAO found that VA has not even
considered requesting to use State wage records to track
performance. I know the VA has done a lot of work to begin
tracking performance outcomes of students going to traditional
higher education programs, but I think they also need to step
up to the plate and begin tracking some of the outcomes of this
program. This is basic government 101 and I think it needs to
be addressed pretty quickly.
I have said it before and I will say it again, VA has to
figure out what type of sensible metrics will be used or
Congress will make them up for you. And you probably don't want
that. And we would rather you do it.
I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about
how we can improve this program that I believe has the
potential to help many veterans for generations to come.
And with that, I recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Takano,
for his opening remarks.
OPENING STATEMENT OF MARK TAKANO, RANKING MEMBER
Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Today's hearing will focus on the GAO's report on the VA's
On-the-Job Training and Apprenticeship Program. In studying
this program, GAO found that most veterans who have used their
GI benefits to participate in VA's on-the-job training and
apprenticeships have had positive experiences as they
transition back into civilian life. That is the good news here
today.
The bad news is that there were so few veterans to survey
about their experiences. More veterans should be participating
in this valuable program. In addition to identifying the high
satisfaction combined with low participation, the GAO has
provided a helpful roadmap that shows how to expand the OJT and
Apprenticeship Program while maintaining the transparency and
accountability that this Committee demands.
In this case, we have what appears to be a very promising
avenue for transitioning veterans to find satisfying, long-term
employment. Our goal today is to consider GAO's recommendations
and ensure that VA can articulate its plan to implement these
recommendations sooner rather than later.
When we look down the road to a future Economic Opportunity
Subcommittee hearing on this same topic, I hope VA will be able
to report on the program's success based on clear, measurable
outcomes that demonstrate the benefit of OJT and
apprenticeships for transitioning veterans.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Wenstrup. Thank you, Mr. Takano.
I welcome our only panel to the table. With us today we
have Mr. Andrew Sherrill, Director of Education, Workforce, and
Income Security for the U.S. Government Accountability Office;
Dr. Joseph Wescott, Legislative Director for the National
Association of State Approving Agencies; General Robert Worley,
Director of VA's Education Service; and Mr. Eric Seleznow,
Deputy Assistant Secretary for DOL's Employment and Training
Administration.
I thank you all for being here today. Your complete written
statements will be made part of the hearing record. And you
will be recognized for 5 minutes for your oral statement.
So let's begin with Mr. Sherrill. You are now recognized
for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF ANDREW SHERRILL
Mr. Sherrill. Thank you, Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member
Takano, and Members of the Subcommittee. I am pleased to be
here today to discuss the findings from the report we issued
last week on the Department of Veterans Affairs' Post-9/11 GI
Bill on-the-job training and apprenticeship programs.
Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits were initially available only
for higher education, which may not be the best path for every
veteran. But in 2011, provisions were enacted that expanded
benefits to cover OJT and apprenticeships. For those who may
not be interested in higher education, OJT and apprenticeships
offer an opportunity to work full-time while training. In
addition to the wages they earn from their employer as a
trainee or apprentice, veterans receive a tax-free monthly
housing payment from VA.
For our report, we analyzed VA program data and surveyed
State officials in all 44 States responsible for overseeing
these programs. We conducted nongeneralizable surveys to
collect information from veterans, as well as employers and
apprenticeship sponsors who participated in these programs. We
also analyzed information about these programs on the VA and
Department of Labor Web sites and in their outreach materials.
In summary, the veterans we surveyed said that Post-9/11
OJT and apprenticeship programs have helped them transition to
civilian life. But program data show relatively few veterans
have participated. Over two-thirds of the veterans we surveyed
specifically noted that receiving supplemental income helped
them cover living expenses while transitioning to civilian
life. About half of the veterans responding to the survey
reported that the programs allowed them to use their GI Bill
benefits even though college was not a good fit for them.
We also found that since the OJT and apprenticeship
programs became available in 2011, about 27,000, or 2 percent,
of the 1.2 million veterans who received GI Bill benefits have
participated in these programs.
Our report identified three areas in which the programs
could be improved. First, we found that a key challenge is lack
of awareness of these programs. For example, State approving
agencies in 39 of the States that administer the programs
reported that veterans' and employers' lack of awareness of
these programs is a primary challenge.
VA provides information about the OJT and apprenticeship
programs through mandatory Transition Assistance Program
briefings for transitioning servicemembers. However, these
briefings generally emphasize higher education. For example,
out of the 77 total pages in the TAP facilitator guide and
briefing slides for the mandatory VA Benefits I and II courses,
there is only one reference to the OJT and apprenticeship
programs.
In discussing Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits, the briefing
slides generally refer to "education, tuition, school," and
"student" and do not refer to employers, OJT, or apprenticeship
opportunities. Similarly, we found the information provided on
VA's Post-9/11 GI Bill Web page and on its OJT and
apprenticeship Web pages lacks enough detail for users to
reasonably understand how to use their GI Bill benefits for
these programs.
We recommended that VA identify and implement appropriate
cost-effective actions to increase awareness of OJT and
apprenticeship benefits. VA agreed and said it will develop a
guide for employers and apprenticeship sponsors about these
programs.
A second area for improvement we identified is the
administrative burdens associated with processing monthly
benefit payments. Over half of State officials we surveyed
cited challenges related to VA's current paper-based payment
processing system, which requires employers to fax or mail
monthly forms to VA in order for a veteran to receive benefits.
In addition, 11 of the 15 employers and apprenticeship sponsors
we interviewed said the process is burdensome or inefficient,
and 7 said they often had to resubmit monthly certification
multiple times because VA officials said they had not received
them.
VA is developing a new data system called VA-CERTS to
address these issues, but VA officials said the system may not
be implemented until 2017 at the earliest. So in the interim,
administrative challenges could hinder program participation,
and we recommended that VA identify and implement cost-
effective steps to ease administrative challenges as it is
developing this VA-CERTS system. VA agreed and said it would
develop a plan to ease these challenges.
A third area in which the program could be improved is
measuring program performance. We found that little is known
about the performance of VA's OJT and apprenticeship programs
because VA does not measure program outcomes, such as whether
participants retained employment after completing the program.
Without such measures, VA is limited in its ability to assess
its programs and veterans may not be well positioned to
determine which GI Bill benefits are most suitable for them.
We recommended that VA establish measures to report on
outcomes for these programs, including considering relevant
data sources and seeking legislative authority to gain access
to data if necessary. VA agreed with this recommendation and
said it will develop a plan to determine the feasibility of
collecting and publishing program outcome data for these
programs.
That concludes my statement. I would be happy to answer any
questions you might have.
[The prepared statement of Andrew Sherrill appears in the
Appendix]
Mr. Wenstrup. Thank you, Mr. Sherrill, for your
constructive remarks.
Dr. Wescott, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF JOSEPH W. WESCOTT
Mr. Wescott. Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, and
Members of the Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity, I am
pleased to appear before you today on behalf of the over 55
member agencies of the National Association of State Approving
Agencies and appreciate the opportunity to provide comments on
examining VA's On-the-Job Training and Apprenticeship Program.
I am accompanied today by Mr. Dan Wellman, the NASAA president.
Mr. Chairman, we agree with the GAO that there are three
main areas surrounding the OJT and Apprenticeship Program that
need improvement. They are outreach, administrative challenges,
and outcome measures. We strongly agree that outreach efforts
need to be improved, and we believe that State approving
agencies can be a major part of the solution. SAAs are already
a part of the process in that we approve and oversee all non-
Federal OJT and apprenticeship programs.
With adequate funding or an adjustment in our contractual
requirements, we can provide a more robust outreach to
potential employers of veterans and their dependents. For
example, from fiscal year 2008 until fiscal year 2011, SAAs
increased the number of approved apprenticeship and OJT
facilities with at least one active veteran or eligible
dependent from 4,471 to 5,285. However, due to our contractual
focus on oversight and our constrained funding, the number of
approved active facilities in fiscal year 2015 has fallen to
only 3,551.
Even in this constrained environment, SAAs have been
creative and innovative in attempting to reach employers and
veterans with the message that there is another path to
employment for them in addition to college. For example, the
Missouri SAA, under Director Chad Schatz, produces a CD aptly
titled ``The GI Bill--It's Not Just for College.'' This 8-
minute CD reflects the perspective of the veteran, the
employer, the VA, and the SAA, and it is used by many National
Guard units, employers, and SAAs across the Nation.
Mr. Chairman, we recommend that VA conduct national
outreach efforts concerning these programs, while the SAA
should remain focused on State and local outreach. We would
encourage the VA to place more emphasis on their Web site
regarding apprenticeship and OJT opportunities. Likewise, we
would suggest outreach efforts by the VA and SAAs should focus
on all current chapters of the GI Bill. We would also like to
be able to conduct annual supervisory visits to apprenticeship/
OJT programs. During these visits, we are able to discuss the
approval and administration of the program with the certifying
officials and we can provide assistance to veterans enrolled in
these programs. Ultimately, supervisory visits strengthen
outreach activities in the field.
Additionally, current law limits the abilities of SAAs to
be reimbursed under their contract for outreach efforts. NASAA
recommends 38 USC 3674 be modified to add an additional
category of reimbursement for outreach and marketing.
NASAA has long sought the automation of the apprenticeship/
OJT process and claims processing. We strongly concur with the
concerns raised in the GAO report regarding the need to ease
administrative challenges. Automation would provide VA and SAAs
with the ability to accurately track the number of active
apprenticeship/OJT programs and how many veterans are actually
enrolled in the program.
NASAA recommends that until the VA is able to establish an
electronic system for apprenticeship/OJT payments, the VA
should consider reducing the administrative burden on employers
with approved programs by allowing them to certify all veterans
enrolled in the program on one enrollment form. NASAA also
stands ready to implement a jointly administered pilot project
in one of our larger apprenticeship/OJT States to test this
suggested change in policy. Nonetheless, a reliable and valid
automation system remains critical to the eventual improvement
of this program.
While we understand the challenges the VA faces in
developing outcome measures for this program, we concur with
the GAO on the need for these measures. We would strongly
recommend that the VA partner with us in the development of
these measures.
Mr. Chairman, the OJT and apprenticeship programs provide a
tremendous opportunity to put our Nation's veterans back to
work immediately in meaningful and rewarding careers that are
needed in our economy. We applaud the efforts of this
Committee, our VA partners and stakeholders, and the GAO to
improve the administration of the VA apprenticeship/OJT
program. I thank you again for this opportunity, and I look
forward to answering any questions that you and the Committee
may have.
[The prepared statement of Joseph W. Wescott appears in the
Appendix]
Mr. Wenstrup. Thank you, Dr. Wescott.
General Worley, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF MG ROBERT M. WORLEY II USAF (RETIRED)
General Worley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member Takano and
other distinguished Members of the Subcommittee. I am pleased
to be here today to discuss the Department of Veterans Affairs'
education benefit programs. My testimony will focus on VA's
administration of on-the-job training and apprenticeship
programs under the Post-9/11 GI Bill.
Public Law 111-377, which was signed into law on January
4th of 2011, amended the Post-9/11 GI Bill by expanding
eligibility for certain individuals, modifying the amounts of
assistance available, and increasing the types of approved
programs which included OJT and apprenticeships.
Both OJT and apprenticeship programs are available to
veterans using their VA education benefits under the Post-9/11
GI Bill. These programs allow veterans to learn a trade or
skill through training on the job instead of attending formal
classroom instruction at an institution of higher learning or
at a vocational school. Eligible veterans pursuing training
under the Post-9/11 GI Bill OJT and apprenticeship programs, in
addition to their wages, receive a monthly housing allowance
which decreases in 6-month increments as wages are increased.
Participants also receive up to $83 a month for books and
supplies.
Of 725,000 new Post-9/11 GI Bill beneficiaries added
between fiscal year 2012 and fiscal year 2015, approximately
35,000, or about 4.8 percent, pursued training through OJT or
apprenticeship programs. Today, there are over 3,500 active OJT
and apprenticeships, and in fiscal year 2015 alone 22,000
veterans pursued training through these programs.
In September of 2014, VA and the Department of Labor sent a
joint letter to approximately 10,000 registered apprenticeship
sponsors encouraging them to recruit and hire veterans into
their apprenticeship programs. The letter informed them of VA's
deemed approved status for any DOL-registered apprenticeship
program and provided information on the streamlined process to
obtain approval through their State approving agencies.
VA has conducted two targeted online marketing campaigns to
promote OJT and apprenticeship programs under the Post-9/11 GI
Bill, one in 2011, after Public Law 111-377 was enacted, and
one in 2013. There is significant information on the GI Bill
Web site and VA recently has enhanced its Transition Assistance
Program curriculum in the Benefits I and the career technical
track regarding OJT and apprenticeship opportunities.
The recently released GAO report includes three major
recommendations: That VA take action to increase awareness of
OJT and apprenticeships, that VA take steps to ease the
administrative challenges in submitting paperwork or receiving
payments, and that VA establish measures to report program
outcomes for OJT and apprenticeships. The VA agrees with these
recommendations.
VA is already taking action to implement them.
Specifically, VA has developed a guide for employers and
sponsors on VA benefits for OJT and apprenticeship programs.
The guide is now available on the GI Bill Web site and will be
available on the eBenefits Employment Center in the near
future. Today, the VBA's Office of Economic Opportunity is
sending out an email blast to thousands of recipients regarding
OJT and apprenticeship opportunities. Also, this morning, the
VA posted a note on its Facebook page, again about OJT and
apprenticeships. This page has about a million followers. We
will do this on a more regular basis to keep the awareness
going.
Additionally, we have established a working group to
expeditiously explore cost-effective options to ease the
administrative challenges for employers and veterans in
submitting the paperwork and receiving payments until the new
VA-CERTS system is in place.
VA also agrees that program performance measures are
important and should be developed to report on program outcomes
for Post-9/11 GI Bill OJT and apprenticeship programs. As you
mentioned, Mr. Chairman, over the past 3 years, the VA has
actively collaborated with the Department of Education, the
Department of Defense, and many others to establish outcome
measures for the Post-9/11 GI Bill in accordance with Executive
Order 13607 and Public Law 112-249. VA has for the first time
published those veteran-specific outcome measures on the GI
Bill Web site. Those measures are graduation rates, certificate
completion, retention, persistence, and transfer out rates.
That happened in September of this year.
VA, in collaboration with the Department of Education, is
currently exploring the collection of post-graduation data
related to employment rates and average salary for graduates.
Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. Thank you for
the opportunity to appear before you today. And I am pleased to
answer any questions you or the Committee may have.
[The prepared statement of General Worley appears in the
Appendix]
Mr. Wenstrup. Thank you, General. I appreciate it.
Mr. Seleznow, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF ERIC SELEZNOW
Mr. Seleznow. Thank you very much. Good afternoon, Chairman
Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, and other distinguished
Members of the Subcommittee. I am pleased to be here today to
discuss the Department of Labor's apprenticeship and on-the-job
training programs and how they assist veterans and
transitioning servicemembers.
Prior to joining DOL, I worked in the local workforce
system for about 20 years in Montgomery County, Maryland, and I
worked at the Governor's Workforce Investment Board in the
State of Maryland. Through those experiences, I worked directly
on our American Job Service Centers, worked with veterans,
worked with stakeholders, and understand how this works at the
point-of-service retail level, if you will.
Today's discussion is particularly appropriate as DOL
recently celebrated the first-ever National Apprenticeship Week
November 1 through 8, just a couple of weeks ago. It was a big
success. We had all sorts of apprenticeship opportunities for
leaders in business, labor, education, and other partners who
expressed their support in activities for registered
apprenticeship.
Under the Workforce Investment Act, 14 million people
complete DOL programs annually, mostly through our 2,500
American Job Centers across the country. Of those 14 million
people, about a million of those are veterans, and over half of
those veterans end up getting jobs.
American Job Centers are the cornerstone of our unique
Federal, State, and local partnerships that comprise the public
workforce system of not only Workforce Innovation and
Opportunity Act programs, but also an array of local partners,
including veteran services. Any American looking for work can
walk through the doors of an American Job Center, visit our Web
site for all the information and help and assistance they need
to get started. That includes veterans.
American Job Centers provide a wide range of career and
training services for all job seekers, including career
counseling, career planning, resume assistance, job placement,
education and training, including OJT and apprenticeship, and
access to referrals for numerous other services. And American
Job Centers offer veterans and eligible military spouses
priority of service for all of our DOL-funded programs.
American Job Centers also house business services teams
that go out and do outreach with employers in the community, a
critical part of our job-driven training strategy. And they
often partner with local veterans employment representatives in
that outreach to offer a range of employer services, including
outreach and development of new OJT opportunities and
registered apprenticeship. These staff help match DOL OJT
participants to employers and employers can get between 50 and
75 percent reimbursement on a trainee's wages in order to
reimburse some of the extraordinary costs associated with
training new staff.
DOL has prioritized OJT strategies because we know they
work. We have been using them for over 15 years in the local
workforce system. It significantly increases the chances of
finding work and leads to better retention and higher average
wages.
As part of our outcome measures, States are required to
report using wage records on employment, retention rates, and
post-program earnings. In program year 2013, almost 85 percent
of the veterans who participated in our OJT programs were
employed in the first quarter after exiting the program, almost
90 percent retained those jobs after 6 months, and the 6-months
earning average for veterans on OJT was more than $17,000,
close to about $35,000 per year.
In 2014, approximately 2,000 veteran apprentices completed
their apprenticeship in the 25 States managed by DOL. But DOL
does not track employment outcomes specifically for veterans in
apprenticeship programs. We do aggregate that data. And over 91
percent of our apprenticeship participants who completed their
apprenticeship were employed in first quarter after exiting the
program. Just as importantly, a high number of participants, 91
percent, completed their apprenticeship and remained in those
jobs for 6 months. The 6-months average earnings for these
participants was roughly $30,000 or $60,000 per year, which is
higher than our average participant in other workforce
development programs.
One successful veteran is a fellow by the name of Dan
Healy. Dan was a Marine. He was a machinist. He went to our Web
site to get information on these services. He ended up at
Sebewaing Tool, an engineering company in Michigan, and he was
very successful in transferring his military skills to an
apprenticeship. The opportunity gave him and his family
opportunities, gave his employer a very good employee for the
long term.
The President has challenged us to double and diversify the
number of apprenticeships, ensuring that more Americans from
all backgrounds benefit from this proven training model. And we
have increased by 70,000 the number of apprenticeships over the
last year and a half.
In 2014, we worked closely with the VA to develop a
streamlined system for the GI Bill that General Worley already
talked about. We look forward to continued collaboration with
them.
And, finally, the President's fiscal year 2016 budget also
proposes to spend $100 million to expand American
apprenticeship grants to support the efforts of States,
employers, and enhance apprenticeships across the country, and
that will certainly benefit the veterans that we serve in our
local service system.
So thank you for the opportunity to appear before you
today. I would be please to respond to any questions.
[The prepared statement of Eric Seleznow appears in the
Appendix]
Mr. Wenstrup. Thank you all very much for your testimony
here. I appreciate that.
Mr. Seleznow, let me just start with you, because that was
a lot of information you packed into 5 minutes and I appreciate
that. And you are getting good data, you are acquiring good
data, and you are really being able to estimate the outcomes.
How far out do you go typically? I mean, I know it is hard
to track people for the rest of their lives. But, you know, to
find out are you still employed 5 years later or 3 years later,
how far are you able to go?
Mr. Seleznow. Typically our first check-in is 6 months
after completion of a program. So we might be working with
somebody for 6 months or maybe working with him a year. Through
an apprenticeship program, it could be 2, 3, or 4 years. So 6
months after completion of the program is the first check. And
we can also do it at 4 quarters after exit as well. We usually
do it the second quarter after exit and we do it at the fourth
after exit.
Mr. Wenstrup. But usually not beyond a year.
Mr. Seleznow. Not beyond a year in most cases, except for
research and evaluation purposes. We have a robust Chief
Evaluation Office where we are looking at a lot of these
programs. So it is possible to look farther beyond that.
Mr. Wenstrup. Yes. So if you can get it at 6 months, would
it be pretty easy to get it at a year or 2 years?
Mr. Seleznow. A year, yes. Any more than that, I wouldn't
be the expert in the data collection strategies. We could get
that for you, whether we have the possibility to do that. I am
sure we have some capacity.
[The attachment appears in the Appendix]
Mr. Wenstrup. I was just wondering if the methodology
allowed for that, because that is good information, you know.
Obviously 6 months is nice, but, you know, we would love to
know where you are 5 years from now and that type of thing.
As far as getting people aware of the program, I get the
challenge. I mean, TAP is in overload, right? So how do you get
in the process anywhere where somebody will say, Oh, how could
you miss the OJT component of what there is to offer? And that
is a challenge, and so I want to ask you about that. We heard
some ideas, Facebook and this and that. But how can we really
get more people involved, considering that there is a lot of
information being put out to veterans as they come out? How can
you find yourself standing out? If anybody wants to take that
question.
Mr. Wescott. I will start, Mr. Chairman.
General Worley. I think it takes a breadth of avenues to do
that. I mean, it starts with the information we send to
servicemembers in the period before they actually transition.
Then it goes into TAP where, as I mentioned, there have been
enhancements in the Benefits I briefing. But, again, it is not
like there is 20 pages dedicated to OJT in Benefits I because
so much is required to be put into that briefing.
The career technical track has also been enhanced. There
are several, much more discussion about apprenticeships and OJT
in the career technical training. Of course, that is an
optional track that a veteran needs to choose to do. But it is
being used quite significantly.
And then it becomes a matter of all the other things that
we try to put out there with respect to the breadth of
opportunities, the incredible breadth of opportunities that the
GI Bill provides, from institutions of higher learning all the
way to the vocational schools to OJT/apprenticeship,
correspondence, flight, all those avenues, to give them their
just due, if you will, with respect to the representation of
them on our Web sites.
Mr. Wenstrup. Just for a second, let me ask you, do we
require any kind of a survey after TAP or at the end of TAP
where maybe we ask some questions, do you feel you understand
this, do you feel you know where to look for this information?
General Worley. I am not the expert on the post, the
checkup of TAP. But I will tell you that the DoD and VA, as you
know, have been working significantly on TAP for many years.
And part of the discussion that has been, that I have been a
part of as well to some degree, is exactly what you are talking
about, measuring the effectiveness of TAP overall with respect
to, in my case, the education piece. Do people who go to TAP,
for example, choose the education option or go one way or
another?
And these are measures that are not in place yet that
require a significant amount of data sharing and interface
between DoD and VA. But those discussions are going on and we
are making progress, but it will be some time, I believe,
before we will have those kind of measures in place.
Mr. Wenstrup. Maybe a simple survey after people complete
TAP to really see how much they picked up. You know, not a
pass/fail, no one can fail, but you get information from that.
Going to the costs and modernization and things like that,
I mean, it doesn't cost more to do email. It doesn't cost more
to go online. It costs more to snail mail things. It costs more
to fax things. And it delays things.
I did appreciate when you talked about having one
enrollment form. You know, we have got to look at what we can
do to make it easier for people that want to participate. And
that has come out today, and I hope that we continue to pursue
that. But I am not necessarily buying that we need more funding
for this to simplify the process. Actually simplifying it
should reduce costs.
And I really want to see us going in that direction. I
don't think there is any reason why we can't. I mean, every one
of us does far less snail mail in our life because we can go
online and do these things that cost us nothing. It saves us
the stamp. It saves us the paper. We can do that on a larger
scale and we need to do that.
But I do see great potential here, and I want to keep
pushing in this direction and follow-up with you again to see
where we are. I commend GAO for the report that you gave us
because it is very constructive information on how we can move
forward and do a better job for our veterans, which of course
is our goal.
And with that, I yield back. Mr. Takano, you are
recognized.
Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
One of the VA programs that has really impressed me the
most recently, and I think also our Chairman, is the VetSuccess
on Campus, or VSOC, Program, where students have access to
counselors.
Do veterans choose to use their GI benefits to pursue OJT
or apprenticeships rather than attending college have access to
similar guidance by a counselor or mentor and access to a
similar community that they might have, say, on a campus vet
center? Is there a similar sort of support system for veterans
who seek the OJT track?
General Worley. Not specifically, Congressman Takano.
Obviously, the VetSuccess on Campus office and those counselors
are there to serve the folks that are in the academic programs
there. There isn't a corollary focused counselor per se just
for OJT and apprenticeships.
Mr. Takano. Okay. Thank you.
Dr. Wescott, the State approving agencies, can you tell me
just how much the State of California participates? Or any of
the panelists who would know how much California participates
in this program?
Mr. Wescott. I would have to get back to you on that.
Mr. Takano. Okay. That is fine.
[The attachment appears in the Appendix]
Mr. Wescott. I apologize.
Mr. Takano. One of the areas that we are all facing
challenges in is replenishing the number of our building
tradesmen in our building trades, right? And I know that the
building trades unions invest a lot of their own resources into
training centers. I personally toured a carpenters' training
facility not far from my district. To what extent do the trades
participate in these sort of programs for the veterans, the
OJT?
Mr. Wescott. Well, there is a great deal of participation,
you know, carpentering, plumbing, electricians. Programs are
set up for all of those. And that is one area where we are
anxious to be more involved, is in outreaching to those unions
and reaching out to those individuals who are participating in
that.
I mentioned, you know, the Missouri CD that is shared. But
also, like in our State of Illinois, in that State they have
336 approved and active-apprenticeship and OJT facilities. They
have a vigorous outreach program where if they are out visiting
with an employer that is training electricians and there is
another employer close by, we might go and visit with that
particular employer and tell them about the program and the
opportunity that veterans who are employed there might have to
be engaged in it.
Ohio is providing briefings to the Ohio State
Apprenticeship Annual Conference and sits as an adviser on
their State Apprenticeship Council.
So there are these opportunities to provide outreach. We
want to do more to the various sorts of people and careers you
mentioned.
Mr. Takano. So, for instance, the kind of centers I am
talking about, like the carpenters training center that is run
by the carpenters union, you would like to see more
participation?
Mr. Wescott. Exactly.
Mr. Takano. How can we do that? What are the steps to take,
or what are the things standing in the way to our getting that
participation?
Mr. Wescott. Well, I would think certainly one of the
things that we would like to do is to have the opportunity to
actually send a program specialist or consultant out to that
center and meet with those directors and talk about the
opportunities that veterans could have. Because one of the sad
things that occurs and has occurred in recent years is veterans
just aren't aware, especially in those type of settings.
One of the things that NASAA has done is we have even
become engaged with certain certifying official associations so
that even school officials could become aware of the fact that
we have this other path to a job in the GI Bill, another
opportunity for veterans beyond the education setting.
Mr. Takano. Any other comments?
Mr. Seleznow. So in our national apprenticeship program, we
work with building trades and we are trying to diversify into
other fields, like IT, cybersecurity, health care, and really
expand apprenticeship. You know, there is the helmet to
hardhats program, wounded warrior programs, vets in piping
programs, some of our national partners who we very much like
to work with--
Mr. Takano. Well, the helmets to hardhats program, for
example, does that interface at all with this veterans' program
at all? Is there any interface?
Mr. Seleznow. I don't know about their particular programs.
We meet with them. We are briefed with them. We do work with
them, either our Veterans Employment and Training office or on
the local or State level on apprenticeship or reaching out to
employers.
Mr. Takano. All right. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I
yield back.
Mr. Wenstrup. Mr. Coffman, you are recognized for 5
minutes.
Mr. Coffman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Sherrill, just one question. I know in my State of
Colorado that it is very difficult for--first of all, the
awareness among veterans leaving Active-Duty is almost zero
about this program. And then when employers do need veterans,
such as someone who was a Humvee mechanic into an auto mechanic
in a service department, it is just so difficult to navigate
this program.
It would seem to me that you have got two, the Department
of Labor and you have got Dr. Wescott's group, that one of them
should be contracted with in terms of the implementation of
this and probably even the reimbursement. Can you comment on
that?
Mr. Sherrill. Well, the State approving agencies do for the
most part handle the outreach for the program at the State
level. VA does do some of the outreach at the Federal level.
Here is a quote from a veteran that participated in one of
these programs: ``This is a hidden program that should be more
prominent in availability. I would not have known I could use
the OJT program if not for word of mouth from another
employee.'' And we found a lot of veterans saying word of mouth
is how they heard about it.
Now, in terms of some of the things that veterans told us
might help would be learning about the program during
recruitment as a possibility. Some of the veterans also said
that having more concrete examples would be helpful, not just
knowing a program exists for OJT and apprenticeship, but
concrete examples of how veterans have used the program, and
highlighting those kinds of things.
Mr. Coffman. I went through the Vietnam Era GI Bill, served
one enlistment in the United States Army. And what I know or
remember, in comparison to the veterans now, is we were a
younger population, less likely to have families. I think the
veterans coming out today are older, better educated, more
likely to have families, more likely to want to go to work
directly into employment and, in my view, utilize one of these
programs. And the numbers ought to be much higher than they
currently are.
Dr. Wescott, can you comment on what role, an enhanced
role, I think, that your organization might be able to play to
expand this opportunity in terms of maybe a contractual
relationship with the VA or a stronger one?
Mr. Wescott. Certainly, Mr. Coffman, and welcome the
opportunity to do so.
First off, we need funding for outreach. We need a line in
our contract that allows us to actually perform some of these
marketing functions at the local area. We want to reach out to
veterans. We want to do it by way of bulletins, by, again,
connecting on a more regular basis with the other agencies that
serve this population, making additional stops, add-a-stops we
call them, so that we can actually talk to folks who might be
interested in this program.
I agree that we are missing an opportunity with a more
mature population coming out today who may already have degrees
and are now looking for a job opportunity. And this is a great
program to connect them with that.
Mr. Coffman. Mr. Seleznow, I wonder if you can comment on,
could you see a greater role for the Department of Labor in
terms of doing this?
Mr. Seleznow. Yeah. Particularly one observation just about
TAP, for example, because I used to work with veterans through
our American Job Center with TAP. They have a lot on their
minds when they are transitioning through and so it may be
mentioned and they are not always remembering that because
there is just so many things as they transition back to their
community. So I think what we can do to help is to continue to
reinforce that in our American Job Centers, through our LVER
outreach people and all of our workforce staff to help increase
that outreach and participation.
Our Web site is pretty robust when it comes to veterans.
You can sort of get to a lot of different places when you get
to our vets apprenticeship one-stop. We do a lot of marketing
and outreach with that.
And also I am just reminded that our U.S. Military
Apprenticeship Program, also serves 95,000 military apprentices
today who when they do transition out of the military we can
work with them on getting reconnected in their communities.
Mr. Coffman. So what funding source? So you don't tap into
the Post-9/11 GI Bill, though, when you do that. That is a
separate program.
Mr. Seleznow. That would be separate for when they are in
the military. But certainly when they get out, we really
enjoyed that connection with VA to utilize the GI Bill. I think
our employers like it, our apprentices like it. I think it is a
great connection.
Mr. Coffman. General Worley, how long have you been in this
position?
General Worley. I have been in this position since April of
2012, sir.
Mr. Coffman. April of 2012. So tell me about why you have
not moved to electronic communications at this point.
General Worley. I guess to go back a little bit
historically, it is symptomatic, I would say, sir, of the
individual stovepipe technology systems that we have that we
are operating today. As you know, Public Law 111-377 is where
the Post-9/11 GI Bill began to be able to do OJT and
apprenticeships starting in October of 2011. At that time, we
were in the middle of the development of a long-term solution
and we had to, because of that law and being able to implement
it, there was a significant revector of the development. But
all of that had to do with the processing of claims.
An OJT and apprenticeship claim, once it is put into the
system, is processed by the Long Term Solution that was
developed over the last 3 or 4 years, but the upfront piece is
a completely different system in schools called VA-ONCE, a
system by which schools submit their enrollment data.
Mr. Coffman. It is unacceptable. I think you would agree
that it is unacceptable.
General Worley. Yes, sir.
Mr. Coffman. And the fact that people have to--the
employers have to kind of reapply to the process and it is
burdensome.
It is amazing to me how somebody can come from the private
sector into the VA, like Secretary McDonald or yourself from
the United States Air Force, as a leader in the Air Force, and
all of a sudden fit right into this culture. Because if this
were a report that came down on your organization in the United
States Air Force, you would be relieved. But yet it is all
acceptable here.
I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wenstrup. Mr. McNerney, you are recognized for 5
minutes
Mr. McNerney. I want to thank the Chairman.
General Worley, would a partnership between the VA and the
VSOs or the Department of Labor, would that benefit the
outreach program and the spread of information on the OJTs?
General Worley. Yes, Congressman. I think stronger
partnerships would. We have partnerships with the Department of
Labor and very strong partnerships with the VSOs and with our
State approving agencies. More focus on outreach with respect
to OJT and apprenticeship programs is an opportunity that is
there and we will pursue that in the future.
Mr. McNerney. Do you see a pathway to improve those
partnerships?
General Worley. Yes, sir.
Mr. McNerney. Can you explain it?
General Worley. Well, I mean, just the testimony that my
partner here from the Department of Labor has given provides
opportunities that we can talk about with respect to outcome
measure databases, how we measure things, and outreach through
their American Job Centers.
Mr. McNerney. Well, you said that the VA is considering
gathering postgrad data. It is not doing that now?
General Worley. The focus in implementing the executive
order and Public Law 112-249 has been to focus on the
institutions of higher learning and vocational schools. So the
outcome measures that we have for the first time published back
in September have to do with 2-year schools, 4-year schools,
and vocational schools.
So we believe that these outcome measures are important for
OJT and apprenticeships. We don't measure post-graduation
information yet, but we are exploring those avenues with the
Department of Education and we will pursue those with the
Department of Labor.
Mr. McNerney. Is there enough data, is there enough
postgrad data to be significant? Or is it mostly just ad hoc at
this point?
General Worley. With respect to employment or salaries or
what?
Mr. McNerney. Outcomes of the--
General Worley. We have data, we have completion data on
those going to school. We would need to develop ways to collect
that information with respect to OJT and apprenticeship
completion and then post-completion success in their
employment.
Mr. McNerney. Dr. Wescott, you mentioned that you would
need funding to do additional outreach. Are there private
sources? I mean, you are going to be helping employers
potentially, right, by training folks. Is there private money
that would be useful or available or accessible somehow?
Mr. Wescott. Well, Congressman, I am not sure about that.
But certainly we would love to have the time and opportunity to
seek some of that out. We do work closely with our universities
and colleges, et cetera, in our States when we are talking
about approving programs. Certainly being able, being given the
time and the opportunity to work more with employers, we might
be able to make some connections whereby we could look at some
type of State government connection between us and employers.
The other thing that we would, of course, look for the
opportunity to do is to work with the State Veterans Affairs
agencies in our States in these areas as well. But as far as
awareness of any funding at the present time, I am not.
Mr. McNerney. So you need money to find out if there is
money?
Mr. Wescott. Well, not so much the need of money, but if we
could spend a little more time in the apprenticeship and OJT
world, we might could increase our marketing.
Mr. McNerney. Okay. Mr. Seleznow, you mentioned the
workforce development act. Are there provisions in there for
GIs or for veterans specifically?
Mr. Seleznow. Yeah, the Workforce Innovation and
Opportunity Act that was signed last July calls out, eligible
veterans, military spouses, certain eligible military spouses,
and it calls out apprenticeship programs. It also talks about
OJT. So all of these things are within our authorized
activities under the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act.
Mr. McNerney. So are you able to follow through with those
requirements?
Mr. Seleznow. Yeah. I mean, our system is a State and
Federal local partnership. So you have the local workforce
boards and the American Job Centers that are providing these
services at the local level. There is our local veterans
employment representatives and disabled veteran outreach
workers in those working hand in hand with our State staff and
local staff.
It is sort of a customized program when people walk in the
door. Not everybody needs an apprenticeship or an OJT program,
right? We do some classification, some sorting, and referring
people to the appropriate treatment, the appropriate tool, or
the appropriate effort, especially for veterans that walk in
those centers.
Mr. McNerney. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Wenstrup. Thank you.
Mr. Costello, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Costello. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Can you tell us why there was a short CD that was once
promoted in the OJT and Apprenticeship Program and my
understanding is, that is no longer being handed out in TAP
classes? Is that correct? And if it is, could you share why
that is?
Undergirding that question is the concern that there might
be so much contained in the TAP classes that part of the reason
why people aren't aware is because of just how much is consumed
or absorbed in the TAP class. There is probably like three or
four questions in that one question.
General Worley. I don't think the timing of the video was
such that--I think that was pre-TAP. I would defer to the State
approving agencies.
Mr. Costello. The CD was?
General Worley. If it was developed after TAP, then I will
have to take that for the record, Congressman. I don't know the
reason why we may or may not have distributed that video.
[The attachment appears in the Appendix]
Mr. Wescott. I think I can speak some to that, Congressman.
Certainly prior to the new Transition Assistance Program being
developed, State approving agencies were more involved in the
actual TAP briefings. And so there was that opportunity for us
to share some of the promotional materials that we had.
When that was restructured--at the present time I am not
aware of any State approving agencies that are involved in the
TAP briefings. That is all completely run by the, I assume, DoD
and VA or the Federal partners. So I assume that is when this
occurred, was when we no longer had the opportunity to be
involved in those briefings and we were no longer able to share
that CD such as the one I mentioned.
Mr. Costello. Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. Wenstrup. Miss Rice, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
Miss Rice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
General Worley, I just want to continue along the lines of
my colleague, Mr. Coffman, because I think he makes a really
excellent point. There have been people from the private sector
who have been very successful in other endeavors coming to,
being brought to the VA to see if they can kind of change the
inept culture. I don't think that is too descriptive a word, I
think it is pretty accurate.
So what is it about, just to continue along the lines of
Mr. Coffman's question, what wall did you hit in terms of being
able to implement that system?
General Worley. Congresswoman Rice, I would challenge the
description of inept culture with respect at least to the
education side of what we do. When I started the job in 2012,
in September 2012, our pending log without full automation was
over 200,000. By the time we implemented the full automation of
Long Term Solution, today our average pending workload is in
the 30,000 range, as we speak today. Timeliness has gone from a
month for an original claim to 11 or 12 days. For a
supplemental claim, timeliness has gone from 18 or 19 days to
6. There has been huge, huge advancement with respect to
automation and processing of claims.
What we are talking about is one specific program, OJT and
Apprenticeship, which does not have the entry technology
capability for submitting the information electronically today.
The form can be accessed online and filled out online.
The law requires that there be two certifications on that
form certifying the hours that the employee worked. That is the
employee's signature and the employer's signature. And there is
PII in this certification. So you have a situation where you
have to have the proper security setup to do this
electronically. That will happen when we have VA-CERTS
implemented in 2017. But until that time, it is a paper
process, sent in and faxed.
Can we do that by email? Yes, ma'am, we can. And we are
going to pursue both that option and other ways to relieve some
of the administrative burden going on with respect to this
program in the meantime. But when we get to the VA-CERTS, which
is an upgraded system that we have on contract under
development today, that should be completed by early 2017, we
will have a full electronic way of submitting the hours and we
won't have this paper process anymore.
Miss Rice. Mr. Sherrill, is there any aspect of your report
that looked into DOL or was it just VA-based?
Mr. Sherrill. Our report did include looking at Department
of Labor with regard to the element of measuring performance,
because since we didn't have any data from VA on the OJT and
apprenticeship programs in terms of what we know about how well
they are performing in terms of outcomes, we did look at
Department of Labor data. And while the programs have some
differences, for the Department of Labor's OJT and
Apprenticeship programs, we did find that these models have
shown the ability to demonstrate positive outcomes.
For example, just to give you a few quick examples for
Department of Labor OJT, the Department of Labor tracks
outcomes for veterans. So for post-9/11 era veterans who
received OJT, 85 percent of them entered employment within 3
months of completing their on-the-job training and 86 percent
of those retained employment over the next 6 months.
This is a snapshot in time. Obviously, it is not
necessarily representative of VA and its programs. But it does
show the potential for these programs because we are really
talking about job-driven training programs for both on-the-job
training and apprenticeship really focusing to meet in-demand
occupations, having certifications, and industry-recognized
credentials that are really tied into what employers need.
So there is a heavy promise here for these models of job
training. That is why we think it is especially important.
Since veterans under the GI Bill have choices to make about
which options are best for them, having outcome data would
really help inform veterans about what might be the best fit
for them.
Miss Rice. I couldn't agree more.
Mr. Seleznow, recently I had the pleasure of hosting
Secretary Perez out in my district. And I thank the Secretary
and really your entire Department for your passionate support
of on-the-job training. We were actually looking at an
apprenticeship program at a specific project in my district.
So the fact that there are distinctions at all between DOL
and VA as it relates to on-the-job training and apprenticeship
programs, how can that be? And how do you coordinate better
with the VA so that the quality of the services that are
rendered by both Federal agencies are equivalent?
Mr. Seleznow. So we have been doing both apprenticeship and
OJT and a range of other workforce programs for a very long
time. We have been doing our apprenticeship program since 1937
and we have been trying to transform it over the last 2 years
into the kind of program we want to see over the next 20 years,
which is a big jump right now. And so apprenticeship is getting
a lot of action across the country, a lot of the attention as a
result of Secretary Perez's advocacy on that, as you know.
Our OJT program we have done for 20, 25 years. It goes back
to JTPA. Local areas do it. We do it by contract. We have a
system across the country that has been trained in it for many
years. We operate it differently than the VA, we have probably
a lot different capacity to do that through our American Job
Center, a one-stop system.
But we have a cadre of people across the country who know
how to do those at the local level. They are approved at the
local level, sometimes they are approved at the State level,
but it is done quickly and efficiently at that level and it
goes into our robust data system.
So we have just been doing it a lot longer. Happy to
collaborate with General Worley and his folks about how to
strengthen some of the things they do.
We operate our programs a little bit differently, a little
bit different, but I think there is a great example, a
collaboration that we did with the GI Bill, an apprenticeship
program, our outreach on that. I think it will yield great
results and great benefits for the veterans who participate in
it.
Miss Rice. Well, I think that should be a high priority so
we can ensure that whatever program a veteran is accessing is
one that is going to help them and that there are measurable
outcomes for that.
Thank you all very much.
I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Wenstrup. You know, I think that when it comes to the
marketing side of things as far as with our troops, part of
marketing is to get someone's attention. And there is no better
way, and I think, General, you will agree, of having someone's
attention when they are in uniform and mandated to do
something. And so that would be the area where I think we focus
on our troops and not afterwards. As far as employers, that is
a different story and we can discuss that further at some time.
But I do also want to recommend that if you find stumbling
blocks that require some legislative proposals that need to be
changed, then they need to be brought to our attention so we
can work with you in trying to make things better.
But if there are no further questions, you are all excused.
But I do want to thank you all for being here today. I think it
was a constructive conversation. We all have got some homework
to do. And I look forward to getting back with you at another
time.
It is clear that this is an invaluable program for our
veterans, it is something that guarantees them a job at the end
of their training. I hope VA addresses GAO's recommendations
and makes an honest effort to market this program to more
veterans as they transition out of the military. I hope they
strive to put an emphasis on tracking outcomes, that is, I
think, very important for future participants as they recently
have for other education programs.
With that, I ask all Members have 5 legislative days to
revise and extend their remarks and include any extraneous
material in the record of today's hearing.
Hearing no objection, so ordered.
Mr. Wenstrup. If there is nothing further, this hearing is
adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:05 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
----------
Prepared Statement of Andrew Sherrill
Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, and Members of the
Subcommittee:
I am pleased to be here today to discuss our November 2015 report
on the Department of Veterans Affairs' (VA) Post-9/11 GI Bill on-the-
job training (OJT) and apprenticeship programs. \1\ As the military
draws down its forces over the next few years, tens of thousands of
servicemembers are expected to transition into civilian life. To better
prepare themselves for meaningful employment, many will seek
educational and training opportunities, which include OJT and
apprenticeship programs. Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits were initially
available only for higher education, which may not be the best path for
every veteran, but in 2011 provisions were enacted that expanded
benefits to cover OJT and apprenticeships. \2\ For those who may not be
interested in higher education, OJT and apprenticeships offer an
opportunity to work full-time while training.
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\1\ GAO, VA BENEFITS: Increasing Outreach and Measuring Outcomes
Would Improve Post-9/11 GI Bill On-the-Job Training and Apprenticeship
Programs, GAO 16 51 (Washington, D.C.: Nov. 12, 2015).
\2\ Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Improvements Act of
2010, Pub. L. No. 111-377, Sec. 105(b), 124 Stat. 4106, 4113-17 (2011)
(codified at 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3313(g)).
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Under the Post-9/11 GI Bill, veterans can receive benefits for an
OJT program lasting from 6 months to 2 years, or for an apprenticeship
as long as 36 months. \3\ In addition to the wages they earn from their
employer as a trainee or apprentice, veterans who choose to apply their
Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits to an eligible OJT or apprenticeship program
receive a tax-free, monthly housing payment from VA. The amount of the
benefit is based on the basic allowance for housing (BAH) paid to
servicemembers. \4\ The Department of Labor (DOL) offers OJT services
and a Registered Apprenticeship program separate from the VA Post-9/11
GI Bill programs which follow similar models but differ from VA's
programs in several key ways. For example, while all veterans who
served for at least 90 days after Sept. 11, 2001 are entitled to Post-
9/11 GI Bill benefits, local workforce development staff must determine
that DOL OJT participants-civilians and veterans alike-need additional
services to obtain employment.
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\3\ 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3677(c)(2) and (3).
\4\ 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3313(g)(3)(B)(i). Specifically, the law states
that eligible veterans are to receive the equivalent of the BAH for a
service Member with dependents in pay grade E-5. Military pay grades
determine both the BAH, which varies by ZIP code, as well as basic pay
while in the military.
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My statement summarizes the findings from our November 2015 report,
which addresses (1) how selected veterans and employers have used the
Post-9/11 GI Bill OJT and apprenticeship programs and to what extent
the programs have been used; (2) to what extent VA and states have
taken steps to inform veterans and employers about these programs; (3)
what challenges veterans and employers reported facing in using the
programs, and (4) to what extent VA has assessed the performance and
effectiveness of the programs.
For our November 2015 report, we analyzed VA program data, assessed
their reliability, and determined they were sufficiently reliable for
our purposes. We also reviewed relevant federal laws, regulations, and
other documents. We surveyed state officials in all 44 states
responsible for overseeing these programs. \5\ In addition, we
conducted three non-generalizable surveys to collect information from
(1) veterans, (2) employers and apprenticeship sponsors who have
participated in the programs, and (3) veterans who received Post-9/11
GI Bill benefits while enrolled in a non-college degree program, such
as a trade school. We conducted site visits in 2 states and interviewed
state officials from an additional 11 states selected to reflect a
range in the number of OJT and apprenticeship programs and in
geographic location. We also interviewed federal officials and staff
from veterans service organizations. In addition, we analyzed VA and
DOL website information, as well as VA and DOL outreach materials, to
examine the extent to which they included information on the Post-9/11
GI Bill OJT and apprenticeship programs. Lastly, we examined DOL
outcome data for its related OJT and apprenticeship programs. We
assessed the reliability of these data and found them sufficiently
reliable for our purposes. A more detailed explanation of our
methodology is available in our full report. The work upon which this
statement is based was conducted in accordance with generally accepted
government auditing standards.
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\5\ State Approving Agencies (SAA) are state agencies designated by
the state's governor that evaluate, approve, and monitor education and
training programs for the GI Bill. Not all SAAs are involved in the
approval and supervision of apprenticeship and OJT programs; in some
states the VA has this responsibility because those states chose not to
contract with VA to administer aspects of the program themselves. VA is
currently acting as the SAA for OJT and apprenticeship approvals in six
states -- Alaska, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maryland, Rhode Island, and
Vermont - and the District of Columbia.
Veterans in Our Review Said the Post-9/11 OJT and Apprenticeship
Programs Helped Them Transition to Civilian Life, but Relatively Few
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Veterans Have Participated
In our November 2015 report, veterans we surveyed said the Post-9/
11 GI Bill OJT and apprenticeship programs have helped them transition
to civilian life, but program data show relatively few veterans have
participated. Most veterans who replied to our survey (125 of 156)
cited more than one benefit to the program. Many specifically noted
that receiving supplemental income helped them cover living expenses
during their transition to civilian life (112 of 156). \6\ About half
of the veterans responding to the survey (80 of 156) reported that the
program allowed them to use their GI Bill benefits even though college
was not a good fit for them. In addition, employers and apprenticeship
sponsors who responded to our survey cited a number of benefits to
participating, particularly those related to recruitment and retention.
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\6\ In 2015, this supplemental income ranged from $896 to $3,923
per month for the first 6 months, depending on the location of the
employer or apprenticeship sponsor.
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We also found that since OJT and apprenticeship benefits became
available in 2011, about 27,000-or 2 percent-of the 1.2 million
veterans who have received Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits have participated
in these programs. Occupations among those most frequently pursued by
participants were police officer and sheriff; correctional officer and
jailor; truck driver; electrician; firefighter; air traffic controller;
immigration and customs inspector; veterans service representative;
carpenter; and plumber, pipefitter, and steamfitter.
VA and States Provide Varying Levels of Information and Outreach to
Veterans and Employers
VA primarily provides information about the OJT and apprenticeship
programs through mandatory Transition Assistance Program (TAP)
briefings for transitioning servicemembers and on its website. \7\
However, these sources generally emphasize higher education and lack
sufficient detail for veterans to reasonably understand how to use
their GI Bill benefits for OJT and apprenticeships. For example,
federal, state, and veterans service organization officials we
interviewed identified TAP as one of the primary ways that veterans can
learn about the Post-9/11 OJT and apprenticeship programs. However, out
of 77 total pages in the TAP facilitator guide, and in briefing slides
for the mandatory VA Benefits I and II courses, there is only one
reference to the OJT and apprenticeship programs. \8\ In discussing
Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits, the briefing slides generally refer to
``education,'' ``tuition,'' ``school,'' and ``student,'' and do not
refer to employers, OJT, or apprenticeship opportunities, although
these options are also available. Similarly, we found the information
provided on VA's Post-9/11 GI Bill web page and on its OJT and
apprenticeship web page lacks enough detail for users to reasonably
understand how to use their GI Bill benefits for the OJT and
apprenticeship programs. The Plain Writing Act of 2010 \9\ established
requirements for clear and meaningful communication with the public
regarding any federal benefits, and federal standards for internal
control state that management should ensure there are adequate means of
communicating with external stakeholders when there could be a
significant effect on the agency achieving its goals. \10\ Further,
VA's strategic goals include empowering veterans to improve their well-
being, and managing and improving VA operations to deliver seamless and
integrated support. \11\ If VA does not provide sufficient detail
regarding the OJT and apprenticeship programs, veterans may not be able
to fully understand these benefits, and VA may not be able to fully
meet its goals of serving this population. We recommended in our
November 2015 report that the Secretary of Veterans Affairs identify
and implement appropriate, cost-effective actions to increase awareness
of OJT and apprenticeship benefits under the Post-9/11 GI Bill. VA
concurred and said it will develop a guide for employers and
apprenticeship sponsors about Post-9/11 GI Bill OJT and apprenticeship
benefits. VA also said it will publicize this guide and make it
available on VA's GI Bill website. Further, VA said it will send
veterans and stakeholders information on OJT and apprenticeship
benefits via an email blast and by posting information to the
Employment Center section of VA's eBenefits website.
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\7\ TAP was originally established by the National Defense
Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1991. Pub. L. No. 101-510, Sec.
502(a), Sec. 1142, 104 Stat. 1485, 1552-55 (1990). The purpose of TAP
is to prepare servicemembers leaving the military for their transition
back into civilian life. It has recently been redesigned through the
Veterans Employment Initiative and the VOW to Hire Heroes Act of 2011.
Exec. Order No. 13,518, 74 Fed. Reg. 58,533 (Nov. 13, 2009) and Pub. L.
No. 112-56, Sec. 221, 125 Stat.711, 715-18. The redesigned TAP is also
known as Transition Goals, Plans, Success (Transition GPS).
\8\ All servicemembers participating in TAP must take VA Benefits I
and II courses, which discuss available benefits and services,
including education benefits.
\9\ Pub. L. No. 111-274, Sec. Sec. 3(3) and 4(b), 124 Stat. 2861,
2161-62 (codified at 5 U.S.C. Sec. 301 note).
\10\ GAO, Standards for Internal Control in the Federal Government,
GAO/AIMD 00 21.3.1 (Washington, D.C.: Nov. 1, 1999).
\11\ Department of Veterans Affairs, Department of Veterans Affairs
FY 2014-2020 Strategic Plan.
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In addition, most state officials we surveyed reported that they
reach out to veterans using direct methods, such as attending job fairs
and providing briefings and presentations to veterans' groups. Fewer
state officials reported using broader outreach methods, such as radio
or television advertisements, to raise awareness of the programs. Some
state officials said that they devote considerable staff time to
outreach efforts. For example, a state program director in one state
told us his agency created a video titled ``OJT: It's Not Just for
College'' to distribute to stakeholders, a monthly newsletter on
veterans' employment issues, and program fact sheets and brochures to
be displayed in job centers and higher education veterans' offices. Our
survey results also indicate that the level of outreach conducted
varies by state. Specifically, officials in five states we surveyed
indicated that, due to resource constraints, they were unable to engage
in more intensive outreach efforts for veterans or employers.
Lack of Program Awareness and Administrative Burdens Have
Challenged Veterans and Employers, According to State Officials and
Program Participants
We also found that key challenges faced by veterans and employers
in using the Post-9/11 GI Bill OJT and apprenticeship programs include
lack of awareness and administrative burdens, according to state
officials, veterans, and employers we surveyed. Most state officials
surveyed reported that lack of awareness about the programs is a
primary challenge they face in facilitating veteran (39 of 44) and
employer (39 of 43) participation. In addition, most state officials
(39 of 44) reported that veterans' lack of understanding regarding how
they can use these benefits to pursue career goals was a top challenge.
State officials we surveyed also cited some of the same challenges that
we identified in our review of VA's information resources, as discussed
above. For example, 36 of 44 responding state officials pointed to the
emphasis on education in Post-9/11 GI Bill materials rather than on OJT
or apprenticeship as a challenge in facilitating veteran participation.
Further, over half of state officials surveyed (24 of 42) cited
challenges related to VA's current paper-based payment processing
system, which requires employers to fax or mail monthly forms to VA in
order for a veteran to receive benefits (see fig. 1).
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
In addition, 11 of the 15 employers and apprenticeship sponsors we
interviewed said the process is burdensome or inefficient, and 7 said
they often had to re-submit monthly certifications multiple times
because VA officials said they had not received them. Six of the 28
veterans we interviewed said their benefits have sometimes been
delayed. VA is developing a new data system, called Veterans Approval,
Certification, Enrollment, Reporting and Tracking System (VA-CERTS),
which will update the systems for certifying program approvals and
monthly hours worked, and for processing educational benefits,
including those for OJT and apprenticeship, according to VA officials.
However, VA officials said this system may not be implemented until
2017 at the earliest. In the interim, administrative challenges could
hinder program participation. We recommended in our November 2015
report that the Secretary of Veterans Affairs identify and implement
cost-effective steps to ease administrative challenges in submitting
paperwork or receiving payments as the new automated VA-CERTS system to
process program approvals and benefit payments is being developed and
implemented. VA concurred and stated it will explore the feasibility of
cost-effective options and will develop a plan to ease challenges for
employers and veterans to submit paperwork and receive payments.
Little Is Known about the Performance of VA's OJT and
Apprenticeship Programs
In addition, we found little is known about the performance of VA's
Post-9/11 GI Bill OJT and apprenticeship programs because VA does not
measure program outcomes, such as whether participants retain
employment after completing the program. Federal standards for internal
control call for establishing and reviewing performance measures to
allow an agency to evaluate relevant data and take appropriate actions.
\12\ Without such measures, VA is limited in its ability to assess its
programs. We recommended that the Secretary of Veterans Affairs
establish measures to report on program outcomes for Post-9/11 GI Bill
OJT and apprenticeship programs, including considering relevant data
sources and seeking legislative authority to gain access to data, if
necessary. VA concurred and said program performance metrics should be
developed to report on program outcomes. VA said it will develop a plan
to determine the feasibility of collecting and publishing program
outcome data for the OJT and apprenticeship programs. VA set a target
completion date of June 2016 for all actions set forth in response to
our recommendations.
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\12\ GAO, Standards for Internal Control in the Federal Government,
GAO/AIMD 00 21.3.1 (Washington, D.C.: Nov. 1, 1999).
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Given the absence of performance measures for VA's programs, we
examined DOL outcome data for its related OJT and apprenticeship
programs. The data indicate the potential for positive outcomes for
these training models. For example, according to 2013 DOL program data,
85 percent of Post-9/11-era veterans who received OJT services entered
employment within 3 months of completing their training, and 86 percent
of these veterans retained employment over the subsequent 6 months.
Additionally, Post-9/11-era veterans who used OJT services earned 25
percent more in the second and third quarters after finishing their OJT
services than they had earned prior to receiving services. While these
data indicate the potential for positive employment outcomes for an OJT
approach, they do not necessarily reflect outcomes for veterans in VA's
programs.
Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, and Members of the
Subcommittee, this concludes my prepared remarks. I would be happy to
answer any questions that you may have.
GAO Contact and Staff Acknowledgments
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Director), Susan Aschoff, James Bennett, Mindy Bowman, Amy Buck, David
Chrisinger, Sheila McCoy, Jean McSween, Almeta Spencer, Michelle Loutoo
Wilson, and Craig Winslow.
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Prepared Statement of Dr. Joseph W. Wescott
Introduction
Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano and Members of the
Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity, I am pleased to appear before you
today on behalf of the over 55 Member state agencies of the National
Association of State Approving Agencies (NASAA) and appreciate the
opportunity to provide comments on ``Examining VA's On-the-Job Training
and Apprenticeship Program.'' We particularly look forward to
discussing with you the Government Accountability Office report
entitled, ``Increasing Outreach and Measuring Outcomes Would Improve
the Post-9/11 GI Bill On-the-Job Training and Apprenticeship
Programs.'' I am accompanied today by Mr. Dan Wellman, NASAA President.
As a part of our review of the report, we will address the
recommendations and outcomes of the report as well as suggest ways to
make the programs more accessible to veterans and transitioning service
Members.
For hundreds of years, On-the Job and Apprenticeship type training
has been an important means of educating family Members and new
employees. In our nation's colonial era, two well-known examples of
apprentices were Paul Revere and Benjamin Franklin. The impact of that
training on their lives and upon our nation's history needs no
explanation. Such impact continues today in the successful transition
of our military service Members to civilian life. In fact, for those of
us who served, OJT or ``hands on'' training played a critical role in
our preparation as soldiers. You could read and discuss the assembly
and disassembly of the M-16 A1 Rifle, but until you actually performed
it, for most of us, it was a mystery. Hence, OJT and Apprenticeship are
methods of training delivery that our military population are well
acquainted with, and for many of them, the type of instruction from
which they can best benefit.
Mr. Chairman, we agree with the GAO that there are three main areas
surrounding the OJT and Apprenticeship program that need improvement.
They are Outreach, Administrative Challenges and Outcome Measures. We
wish to address each of these separately.
Outreach
We strongly agree that outreach efforts need to be improved and we
equally believe that State Approving Agencies can be a major part of
the solution. SAAs are already a part of the process in that we approve
and oversee all non-federal OJT and apprenticeship programs. With
adequate funding or an adjustment in our contractual requirements, we
can provide a more robust outreach to potential employers of veterans
and their dependents. For example, from Fiscal Year 2008 until Fiscal
Year 2011, SAAs, working with our VA partners, increased the number of
approved Apprenticeship and OJT (APP/OJT) facilities with at least one
active veteran or eligible dependent from 4,471 to 5,285. However,
since then, due to our shared focus on oversight and constrained
funding (SAA's have not had an increase in funding in the past 8 years
and there are no outreach monies in our contract), the number of
approved active facilities in FY 2015 was only 3,551, or 1,700 less
than Fiscal Year 2011. In the past several years, we and our VA
partners have focused heavily on oversight of institutions. This
valuable work has been accomplished somewhat at the expense of our
ability to provide outreach for the OJT and Apprenticeship Program. As
you can see, during a time of unprecedented growth in the utilization
of GI Bill benefits and interest in training providers to offer
programs, our ability to approve programs, supervise facilities, and
conduct meaningful outreach has been constrained by limited resources
and our joint focus on oversight.
Even in this constrained environment, SAAs have been creative and
innovative in attempting to reach employers and veterans with the
message that there is another path to employment for them in addition
to college. And one that could prove equally rewarding. For example,
the Missouri SAA under Director Chad Schatz produces a CD, aptly
titled, ``The GI Bill-It's Not Just for College.'' This 8 minute CD
reflects the perspective of the veteran, the employer, the VA and the
SAA and it is used by many National Guard units, employers and SAAs
across the nation. Prior to the recent restructuring of the Transition
Assistance Program, this CD was a staple at many TAP briefings in the
Central and Eastern regions. In addition, like many SAAs, Missouri
publishes a monthly newsletter. And Missouri is not alone. Illinois,
which had 336 approved and active apprenticeship and OJT facilities
last year, has a vigorous outreach program involving add-a-stop visits
to employers, along with presenting to statewide apprenticeship
meetings and to every law enforcement and correctional officer academy
class in Illinois. The Illinois SAA is also actively involved in
Illinois Joining Forces, a consortium of employers, not-for-profit
organizations, and state agencies interested in ensuring veterans make
a successful transition from the military to the civilian world. They
have also tied into the state of Illinois employment system identifying
when veterans have been hired into state government jobs requiring a
training program. The Ohio SAA performs outreach by sitting as an
advisor on their State Apprenticeship Council and by providing
briefings during the Ohio State Apprenticeship Annual Conference.
Finally, NASAA has also worked closely with the certifying official
organization, the Association of Veteran Education Certifying Officials
(AVECO), seeking to connect the higher education community and
employers with the VA APP/OJT program. Recent approval actions with
national employers initiated by Member SAAs effecting many states
include Edward Jones, General Dynamics, Union Pacific and Time Warner
Cable.
Mr. Chairman, we recommend that VA conduct national outreach
efforts concerning these programs, while the SAAs should remain focused
on state and local outreach efforts, which best meet the needs of their
particular state. We would encourage the VA to place more emphasis on
their website regarding the use of the GI Bill for APP/OJT
opportunities. Likewise, we would suggest that outreach efforts by the
VA and SAAs should focus on all current chapters of the GI Bill. In
several states, such as Illinois, more veterans in APP/OJT programs
ostensibly use other chapters such as Chapter 30, 1606 and 1607 rather
than just Chapter 33, the Post 9/11 GI Bill. In certain instances,
Chapter 30 provides a higher monthly benefit payment than the monthly
housing allowance and books and supplies stipend provided under Chapter
33. It is important to understand that what makes Chapter 33 more
attractive at an IHL, the fact that the veteran's institution may
receive payments for tuition and fees, is not a factor with OJT and
Apprenticeship programs. We would also like to be able to conduct more
supervisory visits, and indeed we have begun doing some. The phrase
``Add-A-Stop'', developed by the Missouri SAA, refers to a practice
used by SAA's for over 15 years. An ``Add-A-Stop'' is an extra stop to
a potential APP/OJT facility while traveling to a currently approved
education or training facility for approval or oversight purposes. This
practice maximizes efficiency in travel costs while increasing the VA/
SAA footprint for the APP/OJT program.
With increased resources and personnel, we would like to be able to
visit each active On-the-Job or Apprenticeship training program on an
annual basis. During these visits, we are able to discuss the approval
of the program, the goals of the program, and assist programs with VA
paperwork issues and veteran payment issues. We also speak to veterans
enrolled in these programs, providing them with the opportunity tell us
how their training is going or if they are having any issues with
payments. Ultimately, supervisory visits strengthen outreach activities
in the field of On-the-Job and Apprenticeship training programs, as
these visits provide employers and veterans with the confidence to
recommend this program to other employers and veterans.
Additionally, current law limits the ability of SAAs to be
reimbursed under their contract for outreach efforts unless it can be
linked to a travel expense. Standard outreach and marketing strategies
such as media advertising and social media advertising cannot be
reimbursed. NASAA recommends 38 USC 3674 be modified to add an
additional category of reimbursement for outreach and marketing.
Administrative Challenges
NASAA has long sought the automation of the APP/OJT process and
claims processing. Hence, we strongly concur with the concerns raised
in the GAO report regarding the need to ease administrative challenges.
Automation would provide VA and SAAs with the ability to accurately
track how many veterans are enrolled in approved APP/OJT programs and
how many active APP/OJT programs (a program where a veteran has
received a payment) are in the system. To illustrate the present
situation, according to the GAO report, there were 2700 employers and
apprenticeships sponsors approved to train Post 9/11 Bill veterans, but
meanwhile there were over 3500 active approved facilities, roughly
during this timeframe according to VA records. These numbers are
submitted by SAAs and confirmed by the VA. This number also supports
our earlier statement that many veterans enrolled in APP/OJT programs
use other chapters of the GI Bill, not just the Post 9/11 GI Bill.
Moreover, the VA frequently contacts SAAs to determine the name of a
veteran in an APP/OJT program, as their manual systems for tracking
veterans are so cumbersome to search. In the end, both of these
examples illustrate the need for the VA to automate APP/OJT claims
processing.
NASAA recommends that until the VA is able to establish an
electronic system for APP/OJT process and payments, the VA should
consider reducing administrative burdens on employers with approved
APP/OJT programs by allowing them to certify all veterans enrolled in
the GI Bill program on one enrollment form, instead of separate forms
for each veteran. The use of such a form would provide employers with
immediate relief from the administrative burdens of the APP/OJT claims
processing system. This sheet should be a protected form requiring only
the certifying official's signature. The current form requires both the
certifying official and veteran's signature, which has resulted in
veterans acquiring the form, and in a few cases self-certifying
themselves for benefits. Moreover, the use of such a form would reduce
the amount of paperwork required to be processed by the VA. NASAA
stands ready to implement a jointly administered pilot project in one
of our larger APP/OJT states to test this suggested change in policy.
However a reliable and valid automation system remains critical to the
eventual improvement of this program.
Outcome Measures
While we understand the challenges the VA faces in developing
outcome measures for this program, we concur with the GAO that outcome
measures need to be developed. We would strongly recommend that the VA,
as they have done in other areas, partner with NASAA in the development
of these outcome measures. This would certainly be an opportunity for
our collaborative Joint Advisory Committee, comprised of
representatives from both VA and NASAA, to undertake and oversee this
project. Once again, NASAA stands ready to implement a jointly
administered pilot project in one of our larger APP/OJT states for this
purpose. Such efforts would provide all stakeholders with solid data to
see if the anecdotal evidence that already exists is true. That
anecdotal evidence suggests when compared to other forms of education
and training, those who engage in OJT and Apprenticeship programs have
higher completion rates, higher placement rates, and higher retention
rates. All at a fraction of the cost associated with many four-year
degrees.
Conclusion
Mr. Chairman, the OJT and Apprenticeship programs under the various
chapters of the GI Bill provide a tremendous opportunity to put our
Nations veterans back to work immediately in meaningful and rewarding
careers that are needed in our economy. We applaud the efforts of the
GAO, this Committee, and our VA partners and stakeholders to increase
outreach, improve administrative challenges, and develop outcome
measures. We look forward to collaborating and partnering with our VA
partners in support of many of these GAO recommendations.
Today, fifty-five SAAs in 49 states (some states have two) and the
territory of Puerto Rico, composed of approximately 175 professional
and support personnel, are supervising over 10,000 active facilities
with 100,000 programs (including over 3500 APP/OJT programs). We remain
strongly committed to working closely with our VA partners, VSO
stakeholders and education and training facilities to ensure that
veterans have access to quality training programs delivered in an
appropriate manner by reputable employers. For we all share one
purpose, a better future for our veterans and their dependents. Mr.
Chairman, I pledge to you that we will not fail in our critical mission
and in our commitment to safeguard the public trust, to protect the GI
Bill and to defend the future of those who have so nobly defended us.''
I thank you again for this opportunity and I look forward to answering
any questions that you or committee Members may have.
Prepared Statement of MG Robert M. Worley II USAF (Ret.)
Good afternoon, Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, and other
distinguished Members of the Subcommittee. I am pleased to be here
today to discuss the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) education
benefit programs. My testimony will focus on VA's administration of on-
the-job training (OJT) and apprenticeship programs under the Post-9/11
GI Bill.
The Post-9/11 GI Bill (Chapter 33) was enacted with the passage of
Public Law (P.L.) 110-252, and greatly expanded education benefits,
effective August 1, 2009. The Chapter 33 program provides Veterans,
Servicemembers, dependents, and survivors with educational assistance,
generally in the form of tuition and fees, a monthly housing allowance,
and a books-and-supplies stipend to assist them in reaching their
educational or vocational goals. P.L. 111-377, which was signed into
law on January 4, 2011, amended the Post-9/11 GI Bill by expanding
eligibility for certain individuals, modified the amounts of assistance
available, and increased the types of approved programs, which included
OJT and apprenticeships. The Post-9/11 GI Bill is the most utilized of
VA's educational assistance programs.
Background on VA OJT and Apprenticeship Programs
Both OJT and apprenticeship programs are available for Veterans
using their VA education benefits under the Post-9/11 GI Bill. These
programs allow Veterans to learn a trade or skill through training on-
the-job, instead of attending formal classroom instruction. A Veteran
generally enters into a training contract for a specific period with an
employer, and at the end of the training period, the Veteran gains job
certifications or journeyworker status. Employers must pay Veterans at
least 50 percent of the journeyworker wage at the start of the VA OJT
or apprenticeship programs.
Eligible Veterans pursuing training under Post-9/11 GI Bill, OJT,
or apprenticeship programs receive a monthly housing allowance (MHA) in
addition to their OJT or apprenticeship wages. The MHA is a percentage
of the Department of Defense (DoD) Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH)
for an E-5 with dependents (based on the location of the employer),
payable at the rate of 100 percent of the MHA during the first six
months of training; 80 percent during the second six months; 60 percent
during the third six months; 40 percent during the fourth six months;
and 20 percent during any remaining months of training. Participants
also receive up to $83 per month for books and supplies pro-rated
similarly to the MHA.
Approval and Participation in VA OJT and Apprenticeship Programs
The law provides that VA may pay educational assistance to Veterans
and other eligible individuals while they pursue approved training
programs. An OJT program may be approved if the requirements and
approval criteria found in Section 3677 of Title 38 of the United
States Code (U.S.C.) are met. The Department of Labor's (DOL)
Registered Apprenticeships are ``deemed approved,'' as are those
approved by recognized State Apprenticeship Agencies, subject to the
requirements in Section 3672(b)(2)(A)(iii) of Title 38 U.S.C., and
unregistered apprenticeship programs may be approved as long as the
criteria in Section 3687 of Title 38 U.S.C. are met. State Approving
Agencies (SAAs), that oversee education and training programs for
Veterans, are responsible for approving non-Federal OJT and
apprenticeship programs in their respective states, while VA has
authority to approve OJT and apprenticeship programs offered by
agencies of the Federal government.
Approximately 1.5 million individuals used their Post-9/11 GI Bill
education benefits since inception of the program in August 2009
through fiscal year (FY) 2015. Approximately 35,000 Veterans pursued
training through OJT or apprenticeship programs from FY 2012 through FY
2015. About half of those Veterans participated in OJT opportunities,
while the other half pursued apprenticeship programs. In FY 2015 alone,
approximately 22,000 Veterans pursued training through OJT or
apprenticeship programs.
Partnership with Department of Labor
In September 2014, VA and DOL sent a joint letter to approximately
10,000 Registered Apprenticeship sponsors, encouraging them to recruit
and hire Veterans into their apprenticeship programs. The letter
informed them of the VA ``deemed approved'' status of any DOL-approved
Registered Apprenticeship program, and provided information on the
streamlined process to obtain approval through their SAAs. The letter
also encouraged Registered Apprenticeship sponsors to include
information in their job openings that the positions, upon approval by
the SAA, are ``approved for the GI Bill.''
Outreach
VA has conducted two targeted online marketing campaigns since 2011
to promote OJT and apprenticeship programs under the Post-9/11 GI Bill.
Specifically, in 2011, VA conducted an online advertising campaign
highlighting changes to the Post-9/11 GI Bill that were effective
October 1, 2011, as a result of P.L. 111-377. These changes expanded
the use of the Post-9/11 GI Bill to include OJT, apprenticeships,
vocational flight, correspondence, and non-college degree training
programs. Advertising was targeted to Veterans age 22 to 34 and 35 to
45 who lived in Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, and Tennessee -
the states with the highest Post-9/11 Veteran unemployment rates at
that time. Approximately 354,000 unique individuals visited the web
page detailing those changes to the Post-9/11 GI Bill. The second
campaign was conducted in 2013 and targeted the next five states with
the highest Post-9/11 Veteran unemployment rates - California, Georgia,
Illinois, Pennsylvania, and Texas. Over 76,000 people visited the web
page during the second campaign.
To help ensure that Servicemembers are aware of the OJT and
apprenticeship opportunities, VA recently enhanced its Transition
Assistance Program (TAP) curriculum. The curriculum includes the full
spectrum of Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits that also covers OJT and
apprenticeship opportunities. Additionally, VA enhanced the Career
Technical Training Track (CTTT) in 2015 to provide Servicemembers an
opportunity to utilize assessment tools to determine possible
employment/career direction.
VA will continue to enhance outreach efforts to individuals
potentially eligible for the Post-9/11 GI Bill to promote OJT or
apprenticeship training opportunities.
GAO Report
The draft GAO report, ``Increasing Outreach and Measuring Outcomes
Would Improve Post-9/11 GI Bill On-the-Job Training and Apprenticeship
Programs'' (GAO-16-51, November 2015), includes three major
recommendations. First, it recommends VA identify and implement
appropriate, cost-effective actions to increase awareness of OJT and
apprenticeship benefits under the Post-9/11 GI Bill. Second, it
recommends VA identify and implement cost-effective steps to ease
administrative challenges in submitting paperwork or receiving payments
as VA develops and implements its new system, VA-CERTS, to automate the
processing of program approvals and benefit payments. Finally, it
recommends VA establish measures to report program outcomes for OJT and
apprenticeship programs under the Post-9/11 GI Bill, specifically
noting that VA should consider relevant data sources and should seek
legislative authority to gain access to data if necessary.
VA agrees with these recommendations. VA is already taking action
to implement the first recommendation to increase awareness of OJT and
apprenticeship benefits under the Post-9/11 GI Bill. Specifically, VA
is developing a guide to VA Benefits for OJT and apprenticeship
programs for employers and sponsors. The guide will be published and
available for viewing and download on the GI Bill website. Information
on OJT and apprenticeship benefits will be provided to Veterans and
interested stakeholders via a mass email notification and will be
posted to the employers page of the Veterans Employment Center section
of the eBenefits website.
Additionally, VA will explore the feasibility of cost-effective
options and will develop a plan to ease the administrative challenges
for employers and Veterans to submit paperwork and receive payments
until the new automated VA-CERTS system is in place.
VA also agrees that program performance metrics should be developed
to report on program outcomes for Post-9/11 GI Bill OJT and
apprenticeship programs. Over the past three years, VA has actively
collaborated with the Department of Education (ED) and the DoD to
establish outcome measures for the Post-9/11 GI Bill in accordance with
Executive Order 13607 (Establishing Principles of Excellence) and P.L.
112-249 (Comprehensive Policy on Providing Education Information to
Veterans). VA published initial outcome measures on graduation,
retention, persistence, and transfer-out rates on its GI Bill website.
VA, in collaboration with DoD and ED, is currently exploring the
collection of post-graduation data related to employment rates and
average salary for graduates. VA will determine the feasibility of
collecting and publishing this data for OJT and apprenticeship
programs. VA's target date for implementing GAO's recommendations is
June 1, 2016.
Conclusion
Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. Thank you for the
opportunity to appear before you today. I would be pleased to respond
to any questions that you or the other Members of the Subcommittee may
have.
Prepared Statement of Eric Seleznow
Good afternoon, Chairman Wenstrup, Ranking Member Takano, and other
distinguished Members of the Subcommittee. As Deputy Assistant
Secretary for the Employment and Training Administration (ETA), I am
pleased to be here today to discuss the Department of Labor's (DOL)
apprenticeship and on-the-job training (OJT) programs, and how they
assist veterans and transitioning service Members. Today's discussion
is particularly appropriate as we just observed Veterans' Day, honoring
those who have served and sacrificed for our Nation, and it coincides
with DOL's recent celebration of the inaugural National Apprenticeship
Week.
Prior to joining DOL, I worked for 20 years at the state and local
level, where I had the opportunity to serve as Director of Workforce
Services for the Montgomery County Department of Economic Development
and as Executive Director of the Governor's Workforce Investment Board
(GWIB) in Maryland. As a result, I have had many opportunities to work
with states and local stakeholders to strengthen workforce policies and
to improve their outreach to veterans.
As many of you know, DOL and the Department of Veterans Affairs
(VA) use many of the same programmatic names and terms, but there are
some important distinctions concerning how these terms are used in the
context of each agency's programs.
Work-based training, including Registered Apprenticeship and OJT,
is a critical component of the Administration's job-driven training
strategy - a strategy to ensure workforce training programs combine
strong employer engagement with high quality training to create
pathways for workers into high-growth occupations. The goal is to
provide millions of Americans with secure jobs that lead to long-term
employment with middle class wages and meet employers' needs. This job-
driven strategy complements the President's goal of doubling Registered
Apprenticeships across the country over five years.
Likewise, under the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act
(WIOA), which governs our public workforce system, and through related
strategic investments, DOL has emphasized talent development by
focusing on the attainment of a ``recognized postsecondary
credential,'' using career pathways and successful work-based training
approaches, as well as strategically engaging robust partners, such as
local workforce development boards, employers, institutions of higher
education, apprenticeship agencies, and others to design the necessary
training and credentials to build a competitive workforce.
DOL serves over one million veterans annually through the American
Job Center (AJC) network- the cornerstone of the unique federal, state,
and local partnerships that comprise the public workforce system-and
well over half of them get jobs. In addition to providing high-quality
one-stop shopping for a range of career and training services, AJCs
offer veterans and eligible military spouses priority of service.
AJCs house business service teams, which include or partner with
Local Veterans' Employment Representatives (LVERs) to offer a range of
employer services, including outreach and development of new OJT
opportunities and Registered Apprenticeships. These staff help match
DOL OJT participants to employers, who receive up to 75 percent of the
trainee's wages in order to reimburse some of the extraordinary costs
associated with training new staff.
In Fiscal Year (FY) 2015, ETA's sister agency, the Veterans'
Employment and Training Service (VETS), expanded its employer outreach
activities at both the national and regional levels. VETS guides
employers to business service teams, specifically LVERs. Once linked to
their local AJCs, employers are connected with local veterans looking
for employment, and are introduced to DOL training programs, including
registered apprenticeship programs approved by ETA's Office of
Apprenticeship (OA).
Employers utilizing OA's registered apprenticeship programs develop
a world-class workforce, enhance a company's bottom line, and help to
retain skilled workers. Veterans also benefit as they earn while they
learn in a training model combining work-based learning with related
classroom instruction using the highest industry standards.
Examples of the benefits accruing from the recent expansion of
VETS' employer outreach efforts and coordination with OA can be seen,
for example, in the trucking and automobile manufacturing industries.
Employers in both of these industries have had apprenticeship programs
approved and registered with DOL. These employers have joined a
national system of employer-driven on-the-job training made up of over
150,000 employers in more than 1,000 occupations. VETS and the OA
continue to expand outreach to new employers and new industries.
DOL Investments in OJT
Since 2010, DOL has prioritized OJT strategies because we know they
work. OJT significantly increases the chances of finding work, and
moderately increases employment retention; the training also leads to
higher paid wages, on average. As part of our outcome measures, states
are required to report, using wage records, on employment, retention
rates, and post-program earnings. In Program Year (PY) 2013, of those
veterans who participated in OJT, almost 85 percent were employed in
the first quarter after exiting the program, and almost 90 percent
remained in those jobs after six months. The six-month average earnings
for veterans receiving OJT was $17,361.
DOL has leveraged National Emergency Grant (NEG) programs (renamed
National Dislocated Worker Grants under WIOA) to promote work-based
training models, including Registered Apprenticeship and OJT, where
veterans are a priority population. NEGs are discretionary grants
awarded by the Secretary of Labor to provide employment-related
services for dislocated workers and are intended to temporarily expand
service capacity at the state and local levels by providing time-
limited funding assistance in response to significant dislocation
events, including plant closures and mass layoffs. Funds remaining from
this National Reserve appropriation at the end of the fiscal year are
used to further support dislocated workers across the country. Examples
of these NEG investments in recent years include:
The On-the-Job Training NEGs, which invested $75 million
in 41 states, three federally recognized Tribes, and the District of
Columbia to provide workers affected by layoffs with OJT opportunities;
The Dislocated Worker Training NEGs, which made available
to states up to $50 million to provide workers with the opportunity to
participate in training while acquiring an industry-recognized
credential that enables them to obtain a good job. Areas with a higher
than average demand for employment and training activities for
dislocated military service Members and eligible spouses are eligible
for National Dislocated Worker Grants;
The Job-Driven NEGs, providing up to $150 million in
grants to states to implement new or expanded local and regional job-
driven partnerships that will serve more dislocated workers and achieve
better employment-related outcomes for this group of workers; and
The Sector Partnerships NEGs, the most recent NEG
investment of up to $150 million that is helping states develop
innovative employment and training services that focus on enhanced
regional and industry-specific collaborations.
DOL Registered Apprenticeship
DOL's Apprenticeship services are part of a flexible training
system that combines job-related technical instruction with structured
on-the-job learning experiences. The ``earn and learn'' Registered
Apprenticeship training model provides the opportunity for workers
seeking high-skilled, high-paying jobs to be placed with employers
seeking to build a qualified workforce. Upon completion of a Registered
Apprenticeship program, participants receive an industry- issued,
nationally-recognized credential that certifies occupational
proficiency, is portable, and can provide a pathway to the middle
class. In many cases, these programs provide apprentices with the
opportunity to simultaneously obtain secondary and post-secondary
degrees. In 2014, approximately 2,200 veteran apprentices completed
their apprenticeship in the 25 states managed by DOL. While DOL does
not track employment outcomes for veterans in apprenticeships, over 91
percent of participants who completed their apprenticeship were
employed in the first quarter after exiting the program. Just as
importantly, approximately 91 percent of the participants who completed
their apprenticeship remained in those jobs after six months; the six-
month average earnings for these participants was $30,116.
Expanding Registered Apprenticeship Programs to Veterans
DOL is working to increase the use of apprenticeships nationwide,
not only to expand opportunities for workers, but to expand
opportunities for businesses, as well. One of the Department's most
significant initiatives in this regard is our collaboration with the
White House, VA, State Apprenticeship Agencies, State Approving
Agencies, and other stakeholders to develop a new outreach campaign to
over 10,000 Registered Apprenticeship programs to encourage them to be
``Approved for the GI Bill.'' Use of the GI Bill is a vital way that
companies and Registered Apprenticeship sponsors can help veterans meet
their expenses during an apprenticeship.
Specifically, veterans learning a trade through Registered
Apprenticeship can use their Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits to receive a
tax-free monthly living expenses stipend paid by the VA. Generally,
this stipend gradually decreases for each six month period spent in the
program. Post-9/11 GI Bill recipients can also receive a books and
supplies stipend during their Registered Apprenticeship.
To increase companies' access to veterans as apprentices, in 2014,
the VA and DOL developed a streamlined system for newly-Registered
Apprenticeship programs so that, at the time of registration with DOL,
Apprenticeship staff will assist companies with obtaining the VA
certification for GI Bill benefits. This new process is providing
employers with ``one door to the government'' for their Registered
Apprenticeship and veterans' benefit needs. More companies and
Registered Apprenticeship programs than ever will be certified to
provide the GI Bill benefits that their veteran apprentices have
earned.
American Apprenticeship Grants
In September 2015, President Obama announced 46 winners, selected
by DOL, for the single largest federal investment to date to expand
U.S. apprenticeships, awarding $175 million in competitive grants as
part of the new American Apprenticeship Grants. The winning grantees
have pledged to train and hire more than 34,000 new apprentices in
industries as diverse as healthcare, information technology, and
advanced manufacturing over the next five years.
These grants are part of a broader commitment from DOL to create
more opportunities for hard-working Americans, including veterans and
returning service Members and their spouses, by advancing job-driven
training initiatives that help them acquire the skills they need to
succeed in good jobs that are available now. The 46 grantees have each
committed to expanding apprenticeship programs in new and growing
industries, to align apprenticeships with further education and career
advancement, and to scale proven apprenticeship models that work, while
targeting underserved populations and serving our Nation's veterans.
The San Diego-based, Able-Disabled Advocacy, is among those
veterans-focused organizations awarded a grant, receiving $3.2 million
to lead the San Diego Pathways2Paychecks Apprenticeship Program. The
program will train 300 workers, 80 percent of which will represent
those from underserved populations, including veterans, in IT and
manufacturing.
In addition, a $5 million grant will fund the Wisconsin
Apprenticeship Growth and Enhancement Strategies (WAGE$) project.
Veterans will be among 1,000 new apprentices and 542 upskilled
incumbent workers in 12 high-growth occupations, including advanced
manufacturing, healthcare, and IT industries.
Veterans will also benefit from a program in Brooklyn, New York,
called ``NPower,'' which was awarded $3.3 million to fund an IT
apprenticeship program. The project will provide mentorship and
guidance for 684 participants in Dallas, TX; Newark, NJ; and San
Francisco, CA.
The Administration is working to double the number of apprentices
in the United States and ensure that more Americans from all
backgrounds can benefit from this proven training model. As part of
this effort, we are updating and simplifying the guidelines for
employers and other apprenticeship sponsors on how to use best
practices to ensure equal employment opportunity in apprenticeship
programs for traditionally under-represented groups, including women,
minorities, and people with disabilities, as well as veterans, who
continue to receive priority of service access to all DOL-funded
programs. And, finally, the President's Fiscal Year 2016 budget also
proposes to spend $100 million to build on the American Apprenticeship
Grants to support the efforts of states, employers and others to
enhance apprenticeship across the country.
Conclusion
Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Takano, and Members of the
Subcommittee this concludes my statement. Thank you for the opportunity
to appear before you today. I would be pleased to respond to any
questions.
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