[House Hearing, 114 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
EXAMINING THE FUTURE OF RECREATION.GOV
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
THE INTERIOR
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
MAY 24, 2016
__________
Serial No. 114-113
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov
http://www.house.gov/reform
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COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah, Chairman
JOHN L. MICA, Florida ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland,
MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio Ranking Minority Member
JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York
JIM JORDAN, Ohio ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of
TIM WALBERG, Michigan Columbia
JUSTIN AMASH, Michigan WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri
PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee JIM COOPER, Tennessee
TREY GOWDY, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas MATT CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania
CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina BRENDA L. LAWRENCE, Michigan
RON DeSANTIS, Florida TED LIEU, California
MICK MULVANEY, South Carolina BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN, New Jersey
KEN BUCK, Colorado STACEY E. PLASKETT, Virgin Islands
MARK WALKER, North Carolina MARK DeSAULNIER, California
ROD BLUM, Iowa BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
JODY B. HICE, Georgia PETER WELCH, Vermont
STEVE RUSSELL, Oklahoma MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM, New Mexico
EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia
GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin
WILL HURD, Texas
GARY J. PALMER, Alabama
Jennifer Hemingway, Staff Director
David Rapallo, Minority Staff Director
William McGrath, Interior Subcommittee Staff Director
Chris Esparza, Counsel
Sharon Casey, Deputy Chief Clerk
------
Subcommittee on the Interior
CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming, Chairman
PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona BRENDA L. LAWRENCE, Michigan,
BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas Ranking Minority Member
KEN BUCK, Colorado, Vice Chair MATT CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania
STEVE RUSSELL, Oklahoma STACEY E. PLASKETT, Virgin Islands
GARY J. PALMER, Alabama
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on May 24, 2016..................................... 1
WITNESSES
Mr. Joe Meade, Director, Recreation, Heritage, and Volunteer
Resources, U.S. Forest Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture,
Accompanied by Rick Delappe, Program Manager, Recreation One-
Stop, National Park Service, U.S. Department of the Interior
Oral Statement............................................... 3
Written Statement............................................ 6
EXAMINING THE FUTURE OF RECREATION.GOV
----------
Tuesday, May 24, 2016
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Interior,
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform,
Washington, D.C.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 2:54 p.m., in
Room 2247, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Cynthia Lummis
[chairman of the subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Lummis, Gosar, Buck, and Lawrence.
Mrs. Lummis. The Subcommittee on the Interior will come to
order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a
recess at any time.
Good afternoon. Thanks for your patience with our voting
schedule today, which always seems to crop up when we have a
hearing scheduled. Today, we are going to be examining the
future of Recreation.gov.
Now, launched under President George W. Bush, the
Recreation Web portal was created to make it easier for
citizens and agencies to access recreational services, whether
under the National Park Service, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers,
or one of nearly a dozen other Federal agencies.
Today, Recreation.gov serves as the booking portal for
reservations at 60,000 facilities and activities on Federal
lands, including national parks and forests, wildlife refuges,
waterways, and recreation areas. This portal is a key hub for
park visitors and concessionaires.
For the past 10 years, Recreation.gov has maintained
exclusive control over real-time reservation data. Real-time
reservation data is the information that a park, cabin, or
tour, for example, has been booked by someone. This information
is important when there are multiple booking sites so that no
one facility or activity is booked by two different people.
Multiple reservation sites need real-time reservation data-
sharing, but the only place to reserve a facility or activity
has been the Recreation.gov Web site. This exclusive model
would appear to be contrary to recent business trends that
promote open data-sharing and competition. The competition for
customers between these sites benefits the consumer.
This is the final year of the 10-year Web site management
contract for Recreation.gov. In 2014, the Forest Service
released the first draft of a request for proposals for the
Recreation.gov management contract. After numerous comments,
congressional letters, and even some media coverage, the
government extended the comment period twice and even called
for an industry day to bring together stakeholders for a
productive discussion.
Initial concerns with the request for proposals revolved
around open data requirements and third-party commission
language that could eventually make its way into the vendor
contract. Though President Obama's administration has placed a
priority on open data, some felt the language in the early
drafts of the RFP were not strong enough to encourage the open
sharing of data that could promote a healthy competition among
reservation sites.
The government was responsive to these concerns and did
make some changes to these areas in successive drafts and the
final solicitation, but some ambiguity remained. The government
awarded the new Recreation.gov contract on Friday, May 13, to
Booz Allen Hamilton.
I have some questions, and it relates to my time in State
government, and I will tell you my story. Wyoming entered into
a contract with a big-name company to create a statewide
platform to conduct a wide variety of transactions from
government permits to driver's license renewals to event
reservations. The State chose a big-name company, but they did
not have a lot of experience in the field of creating these
platforms. And later, the contract was canceled, there was a
big dispute, we had no platform. It was a mess. And so I hope
we are not traveling down this same road here.
Today, we hope to examine the future of Recreation.gov. In
the context of the new vendor contract just awarded, we
anticipate an open discussion about some of the challenges the
Web site has faced over the past 10 years and how the
government plans on addressing these issues moving forward. We
also plan to explore some of the ways the Forest Service and
Park Service will use this updated site to get more visits to
our Federal lands.
Mrs. Lummis. With that, I would like to thank the witnesses
in advance for their testimony.
I now recognize Mrs. Lawrence, ranking member of the
Subcommittee on the Interior, for her opening statement.
Mrs. Lawrence. Madam Chairman, thank you for holding this
meeting.
Today, we will discuss the future of Recreation.gov, a
trip-planning reservation and information-sharing platform. The
national park and recreational opportunity Web site is managed
by the Department of Agriculture Forest Service on behalf of 12
participating agencies.
Today's discussion will not be possible to have without
acknowledging the information technology initiatives and goals
of the current administration. In 2014, in an effort to develop
a customer-focused government through smarter information
technology, President Obama created the U.S. Digital Services,
which in turn produces what is known as the U.S. Digital
Services Playbook.
This document, included as an attachment to the newly
awarded Recreation.gov contract, is comprised of 13 key
strategies or plays drawn from successful practices in the
public and private sectors that would help government build
effective online services. All of the administration plays are
part of the new Recreation.gov contract and are intended to
promote an understanding of what people need using data to
drive business decisions and to ensure that the technologies
powering the Web site are using modern secure technologies.
Chief among those plays is the concept of making sure
Recreation.gov sources of data follows the goal of making the
data widely available to the public and private industry.
Even beyond the Digital Services Playbook, the
administration has a guiding principle that government agencies
must make more government-generated data open to the public and
to private industry. According to the administration, providing
easy access to government data delivers more efficient and
effective services to the public and contributes to the
economic growth by fueling entrepreneurship and innovation.
There are numerous examples of private companies that now
use open government data in the products and services they
provide, including Web sites like AccuWeather, Foursquare, and
Zillow.
As the U.S. Forest Service prepares for the future of
Recreation.gov, it is clear that the agency recognizes the
benefits that the administration's Digital Services Playbook
and open-data policies could bring to the Nation's centralized
information source for recreational opportunities on Federal
lands. I remain hopeful that the next contractor will embrace
these principles in the future of Recreation.gov and will offer
opportunities for all stakeholders.
I look forward to hearing from our witnesses, and I yield
back the balance of my time.
Mrs. Lummis. I thank the ranking member.
I will hold the record open for 5 legislative days for any
member who would like to submit a written statement.
I will now recognize our panel of witnesses. I am pleased
to welcome Mr. Joe Meade, director of Recreation, Heritage, and
Volunteer Resources of the National Forest System; and Mr. Rick
DeLappe, program manager of Recreation One-Stop at the U.S.
Forest Service. We welcome you both.
Pursuant to committee rules, witnesses will be sworn in
before they testify. Now, I understand, Mr. Meade, that you
will be providing testimony and Mr. DeLappe responding to
questions ----
Mr. Meade. Yes, ma'am.
Mrs. Lummis.--am I correct? Very good.
If you would please rise and raise your right hand.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mrs. Lummis. Thank you. Please be seated. Let the record
reflect that the witnesses answered in the affirmative.
Now, in order to allow time for discussion, please limit
your oral testimony to 5 minutes, and your entire statement
will be made part of the record.
Mr. Meade, welcome. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF JOE MEADE
Mr. Meade. Thank you. Chairman Lummis, Ranking Member
Lawrence, and members of the committee, it truly is an honor to
be able to be here today to be able to highlight for you our
Recreation.gov Recreation One-Stop programs, and I also I want
to personally thank you for your context that you have set up
in your opening remarks this morning--or this afternoon as
well.
I'm Joe Meade. As you noted, I'm the director for
Recreation, Heritage, and Volunteer Resources with the U.S.
Forest Service and help to oversee the contractual process for
a number of agencies with our Recreation.gov contract that's
now underway.
As was noted, joining me shortly also will be Rick DeLappe,
our program manager for Recreation One-Stop and as we move into
our question-and-answer dialogue.
As you know, our nation Federal--our nation's Federal lands
and waters holds a rich legacy for our nation, a rich heritage.
From our iconic national parks that enculturate and curate our
nation's history, our culture, and our most precious landscapes
to our system of wildlife refuges that ensure that migratory
water fowl have the ability to stretch across the continent and
conserve their habitat to the landscape conservation units of
the Bureau of Land Management that help steward these special
places to our nation's waterways under the stewardship of the
Army Corps of Engineers, which, by the way, is our largest
provider of outdoor recreation in the Nation, and of course the
multiple-use and community benefits of our standing nation's
national forests, a rich legacy that we have.
And in fact, in 2012, outdoor recreation has paid more than
1 billion visits to our nation's public lands and waters, a
very important statistic, spending more than $51 billion and
stimulating local economies and supporting almost 900,000 jobs,
a very important contribution to the Nation's GDP.
Alongside our service providers, our partners, and our
volunteers, this is an array of outdoor recreation
opportunities that's unparalleled across the world. It is truly
a precious resource, a precious asset that we have here in our
nation.
Think about downhill skiing or whitewater rafting to
lodging or staying in a historic fire lookout, a visit to one
of our iconic national parks, one of our unique wildlife
refuges, or maybe it is just a hike on one of our nation's
historic or scenic trails or a stroll down the mall, you know,
these are all opportunities and benefits that we have afforded
to us in this rich legacy.
For the Forest Service, today, outdoor experiences are the
most important contribution we bring to our nation's GDP
generating over $13 billion and generating more than 200,000
jobs. Today, that's actually tripled that of some of our
traditional multiple uses as an agency. So we're an agency in
transformation as we lean into and value how it is that our
citizens connect with us for those outdoor experiences that
they look to connect through as they enjoy their nation's
national forests.
Today, our top leadership is placing a high priority around
this connection to our communities. We're modernizing our
recreation special-uses program so that rather than regulating
use, we're enhancing and inviting visitor services through our
service providers. We're focusing on enhancing our connection
with communities through stewardship and volunteers, leveraging
individuals' ability to share in that stewardship of their
public lands.
We're focused on being responsive to the changing
demographics in our nation to help be relevant to this next
generation, and we're focused on really advancing technological
contributions and connection in this digital age that we live.
So as I conclude, let me highlight the future in front of
us in today's topic for the hearing today, and that's with
Recreation One-Stop. Imagine with me if you will digging your
toes in the sand as the sunset is going down from your beach,
say, on the Oregon coast. Now, imagine while you're enjoying
this incredible moment in time, this experience, you're able to
pick up your smart device and be able to check on your
Recreation.gov account, upload your favorite pictures of the
day, those fun family shots that you were able to take. Rate
your experience at the campground. Was it a good day, was it
a--what was it like? Or maybe even make that reservation for
the next recreation event or activity that you want to go do.
This is truly a new era for Recreation.gov, and that's
really where today we're positioning this technology to
continue to serve a great asset to the customers and citizens
we serve.
So a contemporary platform, that, is designed to focus on
the user experience first, fostering a delightful and intuitive
experience, not a bureaucratic one, designed to be agile,
working closely with our developers to be sure that it's
designed to be responsive in the moment in time and fostering a
dynamic platform that continues to change into the future as we
see changes in technology, service, and interest, designed as
open data, again, taking advantage of modern--the activity
today such as our application programming interfaces to ensure
that we can connect with third-party interests and really
leverage the bout of energy and interest that we have in
outdoor activity.
Designed with an important geo-facial features as well,
which those of us would go out without our GPS loaded in our
car to be able to have that digital connection in our trip
planning, and again, designed with very important, robust
security components within it. Over the past decade, we've
enjoyed a very secure platform and we really continue to have
that level of security designed into the system into the
future.
So with that, I'd like to again welcome Rick DeLappe, our
program manager, to assist me in answering any questions that
you may have, as is appropriate. Thank you.
[Prepared statement of Mr. Meade follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mrs. Lummis. I thank the gentleman for his testimony. And
we will now begin questions.
And Mrs. Lawrence, who is the ranking member of this
committee, has another commitment and so I am going to
recognize her first for 5 minutes. And, Mrs. Lawrence, please
direct your questions to Mr. DeLappe.
Mrs. Lawrence. Mr. DeLappe, do you see outside expertise
from places like the U.S. Digital Services when we talk about
jumping to Play 7, title ``Bring in Experienced Teams,'' do you
seek outside expertise?
Mr. DeLappe. Thank you for the question. Absolutely we do
seek outside expertise. We worked with the U.S. Digital Service
in crafting language for the RFP to help us to find
requirements that would deliver modern technology. We also--it
ties in with Play 1 as well, that we seek out end-user guidance
so that you're--we're building a system that meets not only our
needs but first and foremost meets the needs of the public and
the visitors that are using is.
Mrs. Lawrence. The new Recreation.gov contract states,
``Whenever applicable, the contractor shall embrace the
principles and practices defined in the U.S. Digital Services
Playbook.'' And it continues with all 13 priorities of the U.S.
Digital Services Playbook applied to this program. Several
principles directly reflect areas of specific emphasis on the
R1S support services procurement. So my question to you is Play
1 is titled ``Understand What People Need.''
So, Mr. DeLappe, when the contract was being developed did
you seek public and private industry input to understand the
needs?
Mr. DeLappe. Yes, absolutely we did. We--when we began
thinking about creating an RFP for a follow-on contract, we
started thinking about it back in 2011, and we began with 10
different touch points with the public, including industry days
and private sessions with various vendors, and responding to
their inquiries. So for 3 years we've worked ----
Mrs. Lawrence. Three years?
Mr. DeLappe.--the public to identify what they were looking
for and also worked with the vending community to look for new
technologies and new approaches to help deliver that new
experience.
Mrs. Lawrence. Is this the first Forest Service's contract
to incorporate the principles from the Digital Services
Playbook?
Mr. DeLappe. To the best of knowledge, yes, it is.
Mrs. Lawrence. Okay. Well, thank you. I'm going to--I did
imagine myself being in a national park and dipping my toes in
the water. That was a good place to go today. I just want you
to know that the technology piece is critical as we want to
bring more people into our national parks and to our amazing
reserves in this country and wildlife. And so incorporating
this and as we continue to ensure all the principles of good
procurement and contracting, this is absolutely going in the
right direction. I thank you.
Mr. DeLappe. Thank you.
Mrs. Lummis. The gentlelady yields back and ----
Mrs. Lawrence. I yield back.
Mrs. Lummis. And I thank you very much ----
Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you.
Mrs. Lummis.--for your remarks.
I now recognize myself for as much time as I wish to
consume. How is that?
Thank you, gentlemen, for being here. As I mentioned in my
opening statement, when I was in State government we had tried
to design a highly tailored product to provide customer service
to all kinds of Wyoming users to save them from standing in
lines in public when it would be just as easy for them to do
things at home on their time schedule. And I assume that is
true as well with preparing for a trip to our great national
treasures for you.
What we did wrong when we did this is we chose not to look
at what off-the-shelf products were available. We went with
something that was specifically designed and tailored towards
what we wanted. We, through an RFP process, retained a very
large company with a good reputation but not necessarily a
reputation to build these unique portals. It was a disaster.
And when I look at all of the travel sites out there that are
extremely successful that are allowing people to do comparison
shopping, availability shopping, and have the kind of data
available that makes multiple Web sites even provide
alternatives, gee, if this campsite is booked, there is a
campsite, you know, just 60 miles away that you could get a
reservation at. You know, so you get all this information. They
are marvelous and they are already made.
So my question is, is this product that Booz Hamilton has
been retained to produce a custom product with custom software
or is it going to borrow from already-proven software out
there?
Mr. Meade. Would you like to ----
Mr. DeLappe. Sure. So in our request for proposals--well,
let me step back. As we began researching the new technology
that we would need to bring Recreation.gov into the future, we
recognized that there was a lot of new technology and a lot of
companies that perhaps did not provide the full-scale service
all--unto themselves. And we wanted to broaden the competition
and be exposed to more opportunities to embrace those different
types of technology. We encourage teaming between different
vendors so they can bring best-of-breed together to provide
that service.
This solution that we have awarded to is very much custom-
built from Booz Allen Hamilton. It--but it--it's a little bit
different than what we have seen in the past. So what they've
proposed is kind of an API, application programming interface-
centric platform that allows--really allows them and us to add
and change technology along the way because one of the key
goals of this is to be able to keep up with technology
throughout the life of a contract. As we know, technology
changes so quickly that the solution of today may not be--meet
the expectations of people a year or 2 years from now. So want
a very flexible system, and what they have provided us does
appear to provide that to the government.
Mrs. Lummis. Is this a 10-year contract?
Mr. DeLappe. It's a 5-year base with five 1-year award
terms that they can earn through, you know, quality performance
throughout the years.
Mrs. Lummis. Specialized software frequently calls for
specialized in-house maintenance and augmentation. Is that
going to be--at a very high price. Is that also part of this?
Mr. DeLappe. If I understand the question correctly that we
would anticipate developing the program continuously throughout
the life of the contract, including providing maintenance and
adding new functionality, configuring existing functionality so
that we can provide the broadest range of services to the
agencies.
Mrs. Lummis. What sort of off-the-shelf products or
existing technologies were part of the RFP process that you
chose against because they didn't have features that you were
looking for? You don't have to name companies ----
Mr. DeLappe. Yes.
Mrs. Lummis.--that didn't get the bid, but I am just
curious about were there sort of off-the-shelf products that
could be easily adapted but they didn't have applications that
you want?
Mr. DeLappe. Okay. First--I guess I should note that--so
the award was--we announced the award on May 13, and we did
receive a protest in GAO yesterday.
Mrs. Lummis. Okay.
Mr. DeLappe. And if I could just refer with my contracting
officer representative to make sure I don't cross that line.
Mrs. Lummis. I understand. I have been in your shoes.
Mr. DeLappe. Okay.
Mrs. Lummis. I was State treasurer and bid out all kinds of
investment management services, and I had the same thing happen
to me so I know where you are coming from.
Mr. DeLappe. Okay.
Mr. Meade. And if I might, as Rick is concurring--
conferring for some insight and advice, I'd like to also kind
of offer a frame from our program leadership perspective. As I
tried to note in some of my opening remarks and as you'll see
in our written testimony, we've been able to very much rely on
innovation and insight in technology and application, so a very
active expectation of open data so that we're not in a closed
environment. This is open data. It's not going to be
proprietary. It's open data that ensures that a variety of
third parties can engage with the platform through the
application programming interfaces. It'll be an agile
development process that's required of the contractor so that
we're ensuring that we're keeping pace with modern technology
and changing interests by our recreationists.
The bundle of that ensures that we're requiring the service
provider at the price bid to really step up and provide the
extensive set of contemporary items outlined in the request for
proposal that they have submitted their proposal towards.
Mrs. Lummis. Mr. DeLappe, further comment?
Mr. DeLappe. Well, it's--I--it would be improper for me
right now to discuss any specific types of software or that
were proposed in the proprietary nature in the RFP.
Mrs. Lummis. Okay. Let me then switch gears a little bit.
Mr. DeLappe. Okay.
Mrs. Lummis. Will there be any type of gap between when
Active Network's contract ends and when the Booz Allen provided
service comes online?
Mr. DeLappe. Well, you bring up a situation which is
admittedly risky in any situation to transition data from one
system to another. I will tell you that the bulk of static
inventory information that is currently available for public
sharing, as proposed by Booz Allen Hamilton, has already been
imported into their system, doing testing, and they were able
to demonstrate how some of that would work in their new system.
That's a part of the data.
Of course, the riskier part, the more challenging part is
mapping data that's more in a dynamic state. Perhaps you made a
reservation in the old system but you won't be arriving until
the new system is in place. Booz Allen Hamilton has proposed
very comprehensive data mapping plan to move that data and to
first test that with sample data.
So we do anticipate some kind of gap. In the past, it's
been as much as a couple of weeks. We don't anticipate that at
this time, but again, it is a very--it's a--it's the most
important step because we have people's vacations in our hands.
We want to make sure that we get it right.
Mrs. Lummis. And when will that gap, if it occurs, when
will it occur? During the height of the summer tourist season
or is it going to occur in a less-busy season?
Mr. DeLappe. So our plan, which because we're in a protest
right now and knowing that GAO has until August 31st to
adjudicate that, that puts our transition plan kind of on hold.
In our contract we have allowed up to 15 months for
development, testing, and deployment of a new solution. So
originally, 15 months from now would be right at the right time
for us, the best time. Recognizing, you know, that there are
something that we won't have control over, we will be
evaluating the progress of the solution and the testing of it
to make sure it's ready to go and the timing. You are right.
It's not--it won't be desirable to try to do this during the
height of reservations season, but we will evaluate that when
we get closer.
Mrs. Lummis. Okay. Now, switching gears again, what data
from the recreation Web portal is available to the public?
Mr. DeLappe. Okay. So currently--and this evolved over
time--in the late 1990s the agencies got together to aggregate
data into what was then called Recreation.gov. It wasn't the
reservation service; it was standalone, and it shared data
through just an XML download, which is basically take
everything and parse it out yourself once you get it. And that
existed on its own until Recreation One-Stop program came into
effect in about 2002. And that's when we pulled the National
Park Service reservation system together with the Army Corps
and Forest Service reservation system and the information that
was stored in Recreation.gov. And together, we called them
Recreation.gov because the name made the most sense.
Again, that data remained available for open-data sharing
through an XML download until 2014 when we launched an API on
that to provide a more modern approach to data-sharing and
different machine-readable languages that independent
innovators and developers use nowadays to pull that data and
create tools, apps, games, you name it.
So right now, it's the static data, it's all the
information data about a park, about a forest, you know,
description, photos, directions, et cetera. As we move forward,
we look to take that to the next step so that we can provide
those third parties tools that they can help their visitors,
people who are already on their sites, find that information
without having to transfer around. So real-time availability is
important. If you're looking for a campsite, you want to say,
hey, it is open right now; I might want to book that.
Mrs. Lummis. So you have information that is tremendously
valuable to visitors to our public lands. It is also valuable
to gateway communities to those public lands. It is also
valuable to people who are helping book the remainder of a
travel experience to and from the public land experience. And
the industry has been trending towards standardization and
interoperability. So it makes things like Kayak and other
comparison tools possible. So when someone leaves that
campsite, where are they going to stay en route to their next
destination off public lands and giving them real-time
opportunities to make those kinds of comparisons. Are those
going to be possible without a standardized interoperable
product or will you have a standardized interoperable product
that can interface with third-party providers?
Mr. DeLappe. Sure. I think--there's a number of kind of
tiers of data-sharing you can do, I think. The static data is
very simply, particularly because it doesn't change frequently
enough to worry about overuse, which might, you know, be
detrimental to performance. So if you have a third party that
is calling your API frequently, you'll either need to increase
your server capacity at an additional expense and monitor that
and provide additional support but--so tier 1 I look at as the
static data, not usually a problem. In the middle you have
real-time availability, which we have required access to, and
that's not a problem.
When you get to purchasing or conducting a transaction,
say, on Kayak or on a different Web site, it kind of increases
the technical requirements of that API to process that. Part of
that is because, you know, in the Federal Government the--there
are a lot of business rules that apply to staying at a
campground. It may be, you know, the RV length or the length of
stay that you can do, and those need to be incorporated into
the API so that you can enforce those while they're making the
reservation there.
Furthermore, the transaction processing and the financial
processing has to be built in a way that the revenue or the
funds from that recreation fees are deposited not into the
account at Orbitz or Kayak but into the U.S. Treasury. That's
one of our requirements. If they're due a commission or they
earn an affiliate fee, then it would come back in the other
direction. We never--we don't allow third parties to hang onto
government money and pay us later. We do it the other way
around. Does that make sense?
Mrs. Lummis. Yes.
Mr. DeLappe. So that part requires, you know, an additional
level of development on the API to provide that. And that's
very possible, but as we do that, then we look for ways of
managing that and setting up agreements with those parties so
that everyone is on the same page.
Mrs. Lummis. Is the decision not to allow third parties to
hold that money statutory or is that just a rule, an in-house
rule?
Mr. DeLappe. To the best of my knowledge it is a Treasury
requirement. I cannot--I'm not sure if it's statutory or--but
we could get back to you with an answer to that.
Mrs. Lummis. Okay. I am curious about that ----
Mr. DeLappe. Okay.
Mrs. Lummis.--because it may be that there are impediments
to easing the access of third parties who have wonderful travel
products online by easing up some Federal regulations that
maybe were created for another purpose that maybe don't fit
recreation access very well. And we want, as recreation is
accessed online, to make it as easy as possible for people to
use public lands. So I would love to have that information.
Mr. DeLappe. Okay.
Mrs. Lummis. The comment period initially after the initial
draft of the RFP was released in October of 2014, the comment
period was extended a couple times before the solicitation was
put out in the summer of 2014. Why was the release delayed
then?
Mr. DeLappe. In October 2014 we had released a draft final,
which caught the attention of folks that I will call the open-
data community, third-party entrepreneurs, and they recognized
that the language that was in there--well, they recognized two
things, that the language in there did not totally support
where they thought we should be going. The second thing is is
that we--it's a performance-based contract, and one thing we
try to avoid is prescribing specific solutions. We would prefer
to have industry give us the approach, we give the outcomes and
they find a way to get there.
And very specifically, what they wanted us to require was
an API. And I--we were in that--I don't know, my contract
dilemma there was do I prescribe this knowing that this is the
solution or do I--or do we continue with our outcome-based
requirements so that if APIs change in the next 10 years to
something else, we haven't locked ourselves in.
Mrs. Lummis. Yes.
Mr. DeLappe. So that was the hard part to--you know, to
come up with that. And it didn't satisfy everybody, but we--you
know, basically, APIs are the solution, and that is the outcome
that we got.
So to continue then, so because of that, we hosted an
industry day in Golden, Colorado, to hear directly from the
third--or the open-data community and the vending community and
let them discuss amongst themselves in a public forum, you
know, the pros and cons to this. Subsequent to that, we did
extend it a couple of weeks to allow for more comments to come
in and released a final draft late--early the next year.
Mrs. Lummis. Local and State travel and tourism officials
tell us they have had difficulty working with Recreation.gov,
and that is a big part of Wyoming's economy. It just became our
second-largest economic sector passing agriculture, which is my
industry. Outfitters and guides and private businesses also
benefit from visitors to our Federal lands. What does
Recreation.gov need to do to improve collaboration with local
gateway communities and tourism agencies?
And I commend to your attention the tourism agency in my
State of Wyoming, it is excellent. And of course, you will find
others that are as well and use public lands, national parks,
forests, recreation areas as a draw to their States for also
off-public-land recreational opportunities. So your Web site
and the success of your Web site and the ability of our States
and gateway communities to interface with your product is
really important to us. Hence, today's hearing.
So what can I tell my State travel agency?
Mr. DeLappe. Sure. Thank you for that question. I have
actually worked with your State agency in the past a few times
to share videos. Your State tourism office has a wealth of some
good videos that I was able to use a few years ago for
Recreation.gov. I was not aware that they were experiencing a
challenge coordinating with us. However, what I think we're
looking for going forward here is how can we ensure that
Recreation.gov is able to connect with State tourism agencies
and share valuable information to support the recreation
economies of the States.
The premise of our--one of the premises of our contract is
to do just that, is to share data so that entities, very
specifically as a State tourism agency, can ingest our
information or the portions of it that are important to them by
filtering out, you know, only the Wyoming information in this
case and sharing that on your own Web site, pulling in that
real-time availability if that's the--if that is somewhere they
would like to go to show that this campground in the Medicine
Bow forest actually is reservable and has sites available, to
pull that additional information that shows that if this
campground is full there may be another one down the road and
suggest an alternative.
So that is exactly where we would like to go to provide
that robust travel planning experience not just on
Recreation.gov but on any site where the people are already
visiting and surfing.
Mrs. Lummis. If a State or a local destination has a
marketing organization and they are doing a promotional effort
for maybe a gateway community's arts festival that is just
outside of National Park Service properties, how can
Recreation.gov help leverage that additional visitor activity
that is being promoted locally?
Mr. DeLappe. Sure. I understand. The one challenge I think
that we face is when it comes to promoting commercial entities,
particularly if they're--if we are in a position to promote one
commercial entity over another one. What you're describing does
not sound like that. It sounds more like a community or a
municipal event. And really the challenge we have is just
leveraging resources and making the connections to ensure that
we are--we have the content and it's--you know, and it works
for the local community and on Recreation.gov.
Mrs. Lummis. And so will they have links or ways to plus
into your product so people can have access to their product?
Let's say it is a local arts festival in Jackson, Wyoming?
Mr. DeLappe. Sure. So currently, what we've done, which is
somewhat limited, but if you go on Recreation.gov and you're
looking up, let's say, a permit for Grant Teton National Park.
On that page you should be able to find direct links to the
Wyoming State tourism office, Wyoming's State DOT for road
information, et cetera. And so in a similar fashion and
probably in a much more elegant fashion in the future we would
love to be able to provide that to the level that is pertinent
to that location. And I think what you're suggesting sounds
perfectly fine and actually a valuable tool for the customer.
Mrs. Lummis. And I don't want to imply that my State is the
State that had expressed some concern about interfacing, but
apparently within the staff here at the committee there have
been some expressions of improvements that could be made and if
we might be able to match those people up with you.
Mr. DeLappe. Sure.
Mrs. Lummis. Before I finish a hearing, I like to give our
witnesses the opportunity to actually make closing statements
to say anything that you wish you would have been asked that
you didn't get to tell us or to offer any closing comments
before I close the hearing.
Mr. Meade, you are recognized if you have any closing
comments for today.
Mr. Meade. Thank you, Chairman. I very much would like to
be able to do that. I'd just like to underscore some of your
observations, and that is how important our outdoor experiences
are to the fabric of our nation's economy as you see in--there
in Wyoming, as we see across the Nation how and in what way our
citizens can engage in healthful outdoor activities and how
that can drive economy satisfaction and many other values, many
other benefits in society.
Our goal and interest in a very open-data environment is to
use the best of modern technology, to dig your toes in the
sand, to do your trip planning, to be the millennial that can
do what you want to do on that smart device in your pocket or
to not if you just want to get on a pack trip and enjoy a good
old-fashioned, you know, pack trip up until the high mountains
of the back country.
So what we're looking for here is a dynamic platform,
again, that will be designed in a very agile approach working
back and forth and enhancing it over time. We're looking to
engage users so that they actively are shaping what the tool
will be like, and part of that user community is the very
tourism folks you've highlighted. We want to infuse that energy
and find pathways for these tools to be as maximally beneficial
to our tourism domestic organizations and interests to a local
scale.
As Rick noted, we need to be careful that we are ethical
about that, and that is a driving motive for us and will not
be, you know, something that will be put at risk, but we can
and do--and will do much to help engage that community, State,
and tourism kind of values as we move forward in the product.
So thank you.
Mrs. Lummis. Thank you, Mr. Meade.
Mr. DeLappe, you are recognized for any closing comments.
Mr. DeLappe. Thank you very much for having me here today.
Joe covered much of what I would like to say so I will
leave that at that.
I would like to say that, you know, Recreation.gov is
probably one of the best programs in the government. We get to
work with fun, and we love--the people that work on our staff
are outdoors folks, are passionate about this job. We want to
make it right, and the way we want to do that is we want to
engage with the end users, the States, the local communities to
make sure that we're building a product that suits their needs,
not ours. And so--and I think we're on the right path to do
that.
The requirements in this contract, I think, provide us a
lot of latitude and power really to harness a lot of energy
from technology and from, you know, enthusiastic parties out
there that have been following this and really want to build a
great product.
So I again thank you for your time.
Mrs. Lummis. Well, I thank you both, gentlemen, for being
here today and testifying. As we have heard many times in this
committee and others, the decline in visitorship by people
under the age of 15 to our public lands gives us all concern.
This is a population of healthy, energetic people that should
be out there enjoying the great outdoors.
And we know that culture has changed and that culture in
this country revolves a lot around handheld devices and access
to the internet. So our ability to provide a product to them
that they can access on their handheld device gives them the
tool and the power to plan their next outdoor recreational
opportunity, which will return those young people to our public
lands so they can learn, just as their parents and grandparents
did, about the great outdoor experiences this wonderful country
has to offer, and in doing so will imbue in them the
stewardship that we all hope comes along with feeling that
these treasured places are ours to take care of and to hold in
high regard.
So the work you are doing is of tremendous consequence, and
we hope to help you make that product, Recreation.gov, the most
user-friendly and best opportunity that young people and their
families, who they coach on how to use those handheld devices,
have at their disposal to make that possible.
With that, I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record
testimony that was submitted by the Outdoor Industry
Association.
Mrs. Lummis. And with my gratitude to you, Mr. DeLappe and
Mr. Meade, as well as to Skittles and to the others in our
audience, this hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:45 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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