[House Hearing, 114 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
EXAMINING BLM PUBLIC LANDS LEASING
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
THE INTERIOR
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
MARCH 23, 2016
__________
Serial No. 114-110
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
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COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah, Chairman
JOHN L. MICA, Florida ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland,
MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio Ranking Minority Member
JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York
JIM JORDAN, Ohio ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of
TIM WALBERG, Michigan Columbia
JUSTIN AMASH, Michigan WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri
PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee JIM COOPER, Tennessee
TREY GOWDY, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas MATT CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania
CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina BRENDA L. LAWRENCE, Michigan
RON DeSANTIS, Florida TED LIEU, California
MICK MULVANEY, South Carolina BONNIE WATSON COLEMAN, New Jersey
KEN BUCK, Colorado STACEY E. PLASKETT, Virgin Islands
MARK WALKER, North Carolina MARK DeSAULNIER, California
ROD BLUM, Iowa BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
JODY B. HICE, Georgia PETER WELCH, Vermont
STEVE RUSSELL, Oklahoma MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM, New Mexico
EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia
GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin
WILL HURD, Texas
GARY J. PALMER, Alabama
Jennifer Hemingway, Staff Director
David Rapallo, Minority Staff Director
William McGrath, Interior Subcommittee Staff Director
Sharon Casey, Deputy Chief Clerk
------
Subcommittee on the Interior
CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming, Chairman
PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona BRENDA L. LAWRENCE, Michigan,
BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas Ranking Minority Member
KEN BUCK, Colorado, Vice Chair MATT CARTWRIGHT, Pennsylvania
STEVE RUSSELL, Oklahoma STACEY E. PLASKETT, Virgin Islands
GARY J. PALMER, Alabama
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on March 23, 2016................................... 1
WITNESSES
The Hon. Neil Kornze, Director, Bureau of Land Management, U.S.
Department of the Interior
Oral Statement............................................... 2
Written Statement............................................ 5
APPENDIX
RESPONSE from Director Kornze-BLM to Chairman Lummis QFRs........ 22
EXAMINING BLM PUBLIC LANDS LEASING
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Wednesday, March 23, 2016
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on the Interior,
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform,
Washington, D.C.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 9:15 a.m., in
Room 2247, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Cynthia M.
Lummis [chairman of the subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Lummis, Gosar, Buck, Palmer,
Lawrence, and Plaskett.
Mr. Gosar. The Subcommittee on Interior will come to order.
Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare a recess
at any time. I'm going to introduce myself for an introductory
statement.
Good morning. Today the Subcommittee on the Interior will
examine the Bureau of Land Management's recent difficulties
with oil and gas lease sales. The Mineral Leasing Act requires
the BLM to hold quarterly lease sales for oil and natural gas
in States where lands are available for leasing, but it has had
several lease sales canceled either due to weather or lack of
space.
Congress has already provided BLM authorization to conduct
online auctions instead of in-person sales, through language
included in the 2015 National Defense Authorization Act. The
Secretary was given the authority to conduct on-shore lease
sales through Internet-based bidding methods. BLM has already
selected a vendor and conducted a pilot on lease sales auction
in 2009 when it was previously given authorization to do so
through the fiscal year 2008 Consolidated Appropriations Act.
We have a video clip of some of the folks who the BLM want
to ensure gets a chance to bid on these leases. Can we play the
video?
[video shown.]
Mr. Gosar. That is folks pretending to be hit by a car in
an effort to disrupt a lease sale in Lakewood, Colorado. This
is just plain crazy. To help us understand what is going on
with this problem and other leasing issues at the BLM like the
coal lease sale moratorium, Director Neil Kornze is here.
Director Neil Kornze, I appreciate you being here to answer
our questions. I hope we can learn today when we can expect BLM
to utilize its authority to conduct online lease sales. And
with that, I am going to acknowledge Mrs. Lawrence for her
introductory statement. Thank you Mrs. Lawrence.
Mrs. Lawrence. Good morning, and thank you, Chairman, for
holding this important hearing. I thank our witness, Director
Kornze for his time and testimony.
Our discussion today will focus on the management of oil
and gas lease sales by the Bureau of Land Management.
Congress has entrusted this agency with the stewardship of
millions of acres of public lands. The agency is capably
managing grazing, recreation, and the development of natural
resources on public land. For energy production, the agency is
also managing public lands in Wyoming that produce the majority
of the Nation's coal. Solar, wind, and geothermal energy, our
renewable energy sources, are also responsibly managed by the
agency.
During the Obama Administration, the agency has approved
enough drilling permits to sustain oil and gas development on
public lands for the next 4 years. Some people accuse the
agency of hindering oil, gas, or coal production on public
land. I think the facts speak otherwise. BLM has offered over 4
million acres of land to lease for oil and gas development. But
industry has only bid on a fraction of that land.
Let us examine all of the circumstances to see how best we
can use the land that is now under energy development leases.
Once that assessment is complete, it will then be appropriate
to revisit the question on whether more public lands should be
made available for development. I am looking forward to this
discussion, and I yield back.
Mr. Gosar. Thank you, Mrs. Lawrence. I will hold the record
open for 5 legislative days for any members who would like to
submit a written statement.
Mr. Gosar. We will now recognize our distinguished witness.
I am pleased to welcome The Honorable Neil Kornze, the director
of the Bureau of Land Management at the U.S. Department of
Interior. Welcome, Mr. Kornze. Pursuant to committee rules,
witnesses will be sworn in before they testify.
Will you please rise and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are
about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing
but truth?
Mr. Kornze. Yes.
Mr. Gosar. Thank you. Please be seated.
Let the record reflect that the witness answered in the
affirmative.
In order to allow time for discussion, please limit your
oral testimony to 5 minutes. Your entire written statement will
be made part of the record. Mr. Kornze, you are recognized for
5 minutes.
WITNESS STATEMENT
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE NEIL KORNZE
Mr. Kornze. Thank you, Chairman, Ranking Member Lawrence,
and the other members of the committee. It is a pleasure to be
with you today.
The Bureau of Land Management manages 250 million acres on
the surface of this Nation and about 700 million acres of its
subsurface minerals. We manage these lands under the dual
framework of multiple use and sustained yield which is a
mandate from Congress which has its 40th anniversary this year.
We at the BLM take seriously our obligation under this
framework to ensure the Federal Government's on-shore energy
resources, both renewable and conventional, are developed in a
safe and responsible manner. Every year we face the challenge
of meeting this obligation while also moving forward with some
of the most advanced and largest energy projects in the world.
The BLM's oil and gas program continues to provide critical
resources to our Nation's energy supply. In fact, on lands
where you need a BLM permit to drill, oil production has more
than doubled during this administration, which outpaces
production increases seen nationwide over that same time
period.
In fiscal year 2015 on-shore oil and gas royalties from
Federal leases exceeded $1.8 billion, approximately half of
that money goes back to the States where the development
occurred. Over the same period, tribal royalties exceeded $850
million all of which went to tribal or individual Indian
mineral owners.
In addition to overseeing this growth in production, the
BLM continues to offer leasing and drilling opportunities far
in excess of industry demand. For instance, last year, the BLM
offered more than 4 million acres of lease sales, yet industry
only bid on 15 percent of that acreage. Similarly, industry
currently has 32 million acres under lease, an area roughly the
size of Alabama. However, only 12 million of those acres or
less than 40 percent are producing oil. And last year the BLM
approved more than double the number of drilling permits than
there were wells drilled on the lands where they could be used.
Furthermore, by the end of the year, there were nearly 4
years worth of permits ready to drill without any additional
work or review by the Bureau of Land Management. These permits
have been approved and are on the shelf in the hands of
industry today.
Part of what we see in these important statistics is that
as is always the case, current oil prices, market conditions,
and geographic considerations drive development decisions. With
respect to leasing, the BLM's actions are guided by the Mineral
Leasing Act which instructs the BLM to hold quarterly lease
sales in States where lands are available. In the lower 48, the
leasing process starts with the public identifying parcels that
they would like offered at a lease sale. The BLM decides
whether to include a particular parcel in a lease sale based on
allocation decisions made in applicable land use plans, our
evaluation of resource conflicts, and compliance with other
statutory requirements and management objectives.
Once we identify those parcels that are appropriate for
potential inclusion in a sale, the BLM prepares an
environmental analysis in order to give the public and the BLM
an opportunity to look more closely at the management
considerations surrounding an individual parcel in order to
inform the ultimate leasing decision on that parcel.
Given the extraordinary demands placed on public lands and
the resources they contain, the BLM works closely with
stakeholders throughout the process to ensure the development
is directed to the right places that have the fewest resource
conflicts. After completing the necessary reviews, the BLM
offers parcels at a lease sale. Normally the sale schedule is
announced at the beginning of the year. However, from time to
time there have to be adjustments and occasionally
postponements. This happens if there are no lands available,
the applicable presale requirements have not been completed, or
in isolated cases unpredictable events or safety concerns
justify a postponement.
When an unpredictable event or safety concern prompts a
postponement, all of the parcels that would have been offered
at that postponed sale are offered at a subsequent sale,
typically that same year, often just a few months later.
Recognizing that there are always opportunities to improve
the BLM is making important investments in our leasing process
consistent with our larger effort to modernize our oil and gas
program. Notably, since receiving new permanent statutory
authority, the BLM has been working to stand up an Internet-
based leasing system and we intend to phase in this new process
with online lease sales later this year.
Thank you for the opportunity to be here. I look forward to
your questions.
[Prepared statement of Mr. Kornze follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mrs. Lummis. [Presiding.] I thank the gentleman, and we
will, because Mrs. Lawrence has a markup, we will give her 5
minutes to ask questions first.
So thank you very much for your testimony, Mr. Kornze, and
now Mrs. Lawrence, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you, Madam Chair. Good morning,
Director. The management of our energy resources is of critical
importance to our national and economic security. Those
resources are not replaceable once they are gone, so it makes
sense that we use them in the right way and at the right time.
Could you please respond to this? Do you have an estimate
of the share of oil and gas produced on Federal lands as
compared to non-Federal lands? Can you respond to that? What is
our level of production?
Mr. Kornze. So in terms of production on lands where you
need a BLM permit to drill, it is about 7 percent of the
Nation's oil and about 11 percent of the Nation's gas.
Mrs. Lawrence. And it seems reasonable to me that in
deciding how to best manage our non-renewing resources, we need
to have clarity on the current performance. How do gas and oil
prices influence bids on the oil leases and later production
levels?
Mr. Kornze. We see a strong correlation between prices and
interest in leasing. So, for instance, and there has been, of
course, a steep decline in oil prices recently. And we have
seen a very strong drop off in drilling, and in APD
applications, drilling permit applications, particularly this
year. It didn't go over the cliff last year, but right now we
are seeing half or a third of what we were seeing just a year
ago.
Mrs. Lawrence. So with the active current lease lands, are
they producing at a high capacity and are they contributing to
our energy security?
Mr. Kornze. So somewhere around 36, 37 percent of the lands
that are leased are actually being used for production. When
they are producing, they are producing important revenues for
the country, and we are proud to be part of that.
Mrs. Lawrence. Okay. We have heard recent reports about a
proposed cancellation in the Thompson Divide region. The
concern is about inconsistent environmental standards
associated with the 25 leases. Did NEPA apply at the time of
the approval on the sale of these leases, and if not, why not?
Mr. Kornze. So we had some procedural errors in our leasing
effort there. So the short story is that the Forest Service put
forward a plan for approving potential leases in that area in
the 1990s when we went forward with leases in the Aughts. We
did not correctly link our analysis to the environmental
analysis of the Forest Service. So they were issued with error,
and the Interior Board of Land Appeals, IBLA immediately threw
out three of them that were challenged and the rest of them
continue to have difficulties.
So we are going back, doing NEPA, evaluating the situation
and we are working through that process right now.
Mrs. Lawrence. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
Mrs. Lummis. I thank the gentlelady. The gentleman from
Arizona, Mr. Gosar is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Gosar. Thanks, Madam Chair. Mr. Kornze--I will scoot
down here. That one has got a buzz.
Thank you, Mr. Kornze, and thank you very much for getting
back to me with regards for lands scheduled for disposal on the
BLM. We look forward to the next month to seeing that up on the
Web site.
Mr. Kornze, I'm strongly opposed to the practice used by
this administration which utilizes the Antiquities Act to
unilaterally designate national monuments and to lap up
millions of acres of land, BLM, or otherwise, from resource
development. I find it especially egregious when the
administration plays fast and loose with this authority at the
behest of the extremist environmentalists and special interests
that do not have American people's best interest as their
motives.
Mr. Kornze, Arizona already has 18 national monuments, more
than any other State. Is the administration currently working
on designating a new national monument in Arizona on BLM lands?
Mr. Kornze. So I am going to have to refer you to the White
House, the Antiquities Act is a Presidential power, and you
know, any decisions that relate to that are under the auspices
of ----
Mr. Gosar. Well, I understand, but have they reached out
and talked to you about any types of parcels particularly in
western Arizona? No conversation whatsoever with the White
House at all?
Mr. Kornze. I am going to direct you to CEQ in the White
House for information on what they are working on or what they
are not working on.
Mr. Gosar. So the White House hasn't reached out to you one
iota with regard to any lands located in Arizona?
Mr. Kornze. I would say we receive requests and interests
from a lot of people from all types of stakeholders on these
issues.
Mr. Gosar. No, but this is a specific ask. I mean, you are
under oath and I am asking you, did the White House or the
administration talk with you or anybody underneath--the BLM in
regards to any withdrawal potentials utilizing the antiquities
in Arizona?
Mr. Kornze. I have heard discussion related to multiple
possibilities.
Mr. Gosar. Multiple possibilities. Can you elaborate rate
on those multiple possibilities?
Mr. Kornze. I am talking about looking at the country and
figuring out where would this be appropriate, where would it
not?
Mr. Gosar. So there is some conversation going on between
the White House and BLM and agencies in regards to antiquities
withdrawal?
Mr. Kornze. Yes.
Mr. Gosar. That is kind of--you misled me. I mean, you
know, at the very, very beginning of that conversation, you
said you will have to talk to the White House. So there is some
coordination going on. Is there a Member of Congress that
actually is involved in those conversations?
Mr. Kornze. Well----
Mr. Gosar. Remember, you are under oath.
Mr. Kornze. I mean, it depends on what we are talking
about, sir.
Mr. Gosar. Is there a Member of Congress from Arizona
regarding those discussions with BLM and the White House?
Mr. Kornze. Is there a Member of Congress involved? Not
that I am aware of, but I am going to refer you to the White
House for more information on what they are working on.
Mr. Gosar. My office currently has a FOIA request at the
Department of Interior regarding the proposals, and the
coordination between land agencies and environmental groups.
Will that request collaborate the information that you shared
here today?
Mr. Kornze. I don't know what--I don't know the request you
are referring to, so----
Mr. Gosar. The request we sent was by multiple Members of
Congress, was submitted on 12-3-2015, and we have received
nothing of substance to date, absolutely shameful. So much for
being the most transparent administration in history. Any idea
when your administration will respond to that request?
Mr. Kornze. I am not familiar with that request so I
couldn't tell you.
Mr. Gosar. We will make sure that it is reissued then. And
we will look for an expedited conversation.
In July of last year the House of Representatives passed an
amendment to block pending national monuments throughout the
country where there is significant local opposition. Do you
support pursuing the designation of a monument that blatantly
ignores the will of local governments and overrides every clear
opposition from local communities who will be negatively be
targeted by such action?
Mr. Kornze. So it has been a consistent position of this
administration to make sure that any use of the Antiquities Act
is done through community conversation, that it is responding
to local interests.
Mr. Gosar. So we would have a scheduled public hearing in
regards to those withdrawals?
Mr. Kornze. There have been public hearings before other
designations. So----
Mr. Gosar. I am going to be more specific about Arizona.
When have those conversations occurred? Would you enlighten me?
Mr. Kornze. Which?
Mr. Gosar. Well, I mean, you made the comment today that
there has been some conversations between the White House and
your office in regards to potential liquidity of some lands, so
when are we expecting to have these conversations with the
public out in Arizona?
Mr. Kornze. I presume if a decision is made to pursue with
interest that sort of concept, that there would be a public
process involved.
Mr. Gosar. So you would tell me that that is actually going
to happen prior to, not afterwards?
Mr. Kornze. That has been the practice of this
administration to make sure that there is a public process.
Mr. Gosar. Can you provide for the record those that have
applied prior to for the record so that we can actually have a
record of that?
Mr. Kornze. Yeah, you sure can.
Mr. Gosar. I would appreciate it. Madam Chair, I thank you
very, very much for the questions.
Mrs. Lummis. I thank the gentleman and I will now take my 5
minutes. Thank you, Mr. Kornze, for joining us today.
I want to start by visiting about the coal lease sale
moratorium. Even with the leasing moratorium in place, you and
Secretary Jewell have suggested that some leases might continue
and that some leasing could take place under certain
circumstances.
Can you provide some more assurances that some lease sales
will be completed, and when?
Mr. Kornze. So a lot of it depends on industry interests.
All right, so we have, I believe, five different projects in
Wyoming alone that have received records of decision, or near
that point in the process and are able to move forward. A very
large portion of what we have on the list to continue to move
forward are projects that have essentially been approved but
are sitting on the shelf because industry has asked us to
pause. So there is a considerable amount of leasing that is
available to move in Wyoming in addition to other States.
Mrs. Lummis. Now I want to shift to oil and gas. We had
given you authority to do online leasing. Hopefully, that would
alleviate some of the concerns that you have expressed that you
have to cancel meetings because the rooms are too small or the
weather is too bad. You mentioned that you are moving forward
this summer, but now I heard you say earlier later this year.
Mr. Kornze. Yeah.
Mrs. Lummis. So what does that mean? At one point I had
heard, I thought I had heard it would happen this summer. Now I
am hearing later this year.
Mr. Kornze. So I will clarify. We intend to have one lease
sale online this summer, hope to have two or three this fall.
And then if those are a success, we should be using it broadly
next year.
Mrs. Lummis. And what is taking so long?
Mr. Kornze. So I think part of it is, you know, looking at
a regulatory scheme and seeing if the authority that was given
to us matches with our regulations and how we thread that
needle. Because there is an odd requirement for us that it be
oral bidding, so we are trying to figure out how do you meld
oral bidding with an online system.
And then other than that, you know, finding a contractor,
getting the contract in place, putting together our rules of
the road and our guidance for our team, so I can understand the
desire to move faster and we are almost there.
Mrs. Lummis. You have yet to make the fiscal year 2015
leasing data for oil and gas public. When do you plan on
releasing that data?
Mr. Kornze. Let me consult with my staff. It should be very
soon. Okay. It should be within the next few weeks.
Mrs. Lummis. As in several months.
Mr. Kornze. No, next 2 weeks, let's say.
Mrs. Lummis. Very good. Thank you. Some State offices cover
multiple States. There were only three lease sales in New
Mexico which has some very high interest areas in the Permian
Basin because the Oklahoma field office had a sale. Do you have
plans to ensure four quarterly sales occur in New Mexico,
Montana, North Dakota, and the other States with Federal oil
and gas lands?
Mr. Kornze. We, just to make sure I--correct me if I don't
get to the point of your question here, we are intending to
move ahead with everything that is on our schedule to the
degree that we have lands that are available and the situations
are, you know, we can provide for the safety and, you know,
reasonable disposition of those sales.
A lot of the difficulty we have had is, you know, adjusting
to the level of public interest that has been brought to these
lease sales. Historically, these have been quiet affairs, 15,
20 people sitting together conducting these sales. And now we
often times have hundreds of people attending so we had an
adjustment period through December, January, but I think Utah
is a great example where we had a lease sale that was postponed
in December and we have successfully orchestrated and had that
lease sale since then.
Mrs. Lummis. And it was postponed for what reason?
Mr. Kornze. We were surprised by the level of interest and
so we were under the impression there were going to be hundreds
of people attending.
Mrs. Lummis. Was it interest by bidders, or was it interest
by opposition demonstrations?
Mr. Kornze. Generally demonstrators, yes.
Mrs. Lummis. So are you required to make those bidding
sessions public?
Mr. Kornze. Well, it is part of the ethos of the agency to
make sure that we have as much of a public process as we can.
So if folks want to attend in a reasonable way, express
opinion, yeah, that is something that we welcome.
Mrs. Lummis. Was the information made available to you
earlier that there may be protests, hence, that was not held,
that lease sale?
Mr. Kornze. Earlier as in----
Mrs. Lummis. Well, you mentioned that it was postponed
because you had a larger turnout. You anticipated a larger
turnout, more interest, so to speak. So in other words, were
you tipped off that some protesters were going to come?
Mr. Kornze. We saw press releases a day, day-and-a-half in
advance, and we had in Utah, traditionally held these in our
State office and so, you know, having this kind of--having a
15-person, you know, fairly docile meeting in the midst of our
employee space was something we were very used to, a day-and-a-
half in advance being able to find a place appropriate for a
few hundred people, that, you know, with different levels of
excitement, took us some time.
So that was the reason that we postponed that sale and
sought a different venue.
Mrs. Lummis. I just find it interesting that a traditional
practice conducted in a traditional place would be changed
because of a press release a couple of days in advance that
protesters intend to come. And protesters would have an
opportunity to protest from a sidewalk, not disrupting the
specific lease sale.
Mr. Kornze. Uh-huh.
Mrs. Lummis. And that sounds to me like an over-
accommodation of a traditional, normal process in order to
accommodate a protesting group. That sounds abnormal to me.
Mr. Kornze. Well, we also we have had an abnormal security
situation related to some public agencies, including ours. All
right, we have had a situation where we have had militias. We
have had people raising arms at different times and we are on
heightened alert. Right.
We are concerned about safety and so a situation which we
are not used to separating out, who's a bidder and who's not in
a routine way, you know, gives us some pause and led us to take
a half step back and say, how do we do this in the very near
future and do it in a reasonable way that ensures the safety of
everyone involved?
Mrs. Lummis. So the leases that were non-NEPA compliant
that were Forest Service issued in the 1990s and then
subsequently you had to walk them back because of FBLA
requirements, non-NEPA compliant issuances, where were those
leases? Do you remember what State they were in?
Mr. Kornze. So the ones that Congresswoman Lawrence
referred to, that was in Colorado.
Mrs. Lummis. And what is their current status?
Mr. Kornze. So----
Mrs. Lummis. And let me ask first before I ask about their
status. Had drilling begun in any of them, or were they dormant
in pursuit of permitting?
Mr. Kornze. So there's a range, there's about 65 different
leases in Colorado that are being reviewed through this
process. Some have active oil and gas production. And some have
nothing. So there's the entire spectrum.
Mrs. Lummis. Okay. And for those where production had
begun, is production continuing?
Mr. Kornze. Yes.
Mrs. Lummis. In those where it had not begun, what is the
process of reissuing them in a compliant manner?
Mr. Kornze. So what is on the table right now in terms of a
proposal is the Forest Service has redone their oil and gas
land use plan for the White River National Forest so they have
taken a fresh look based on recent information and said, here
are the areas we think are appropriate for oil and gas. Here
are the ones that we don't going forward. We have during our
NEPA process incorporated that most recent information that
they've provided and that they used and followed very similar
lines. So places where they say we don't think oil and gas
makes sense, we've followed a similar proposal or we have put
forward a similar proposal and in places where they have said,
you know, we think oil and gas is a good use of this land,
we're proposing to leave those in place. But anyplace where
there is existing production, that production will continue.
Mrs. Lummis. With regard to the pilot office program, we
were expecting a report on how that is going with regard to
streamlining permitting approvals. That report we expected by
February 1. Do you have that report?
Mr. Kornze. We are working on that. I will be frank that we
had some confusion as to which fiscal year it was desired in.
And so we are doing a double quick effort to get that done and
get that up to you.
Mrs. Lummis. I am going to--now, I am going to switch topic
as little bit and ask you some questions about the wild horse
program.
Mr. Kornze. Okay.
Mrs. Lummis. A little bit off the oil and gas topic. Both
your State and mine have overpopulations of wild horses. This
is a program that continues to vex those who are administering
the wild horse program and the States that are trying to
protect the quality of the range.
Can you give me an update on what the status is of the
program, what options you are considering that would make this
program function better for especially for Wyoming and Nevada.
Mr. Kornze. Yeah, well, I appreciate the question. Those
two States do have the largest numbers of horses and are a
serious concern. So for those that are less oriented on wild
horses and burros just as an entry level discussion, there are
about 50,000 horses on the range--excuse me 60,000 horses on
the range in the West. About 50,000 that we have removed and
are now in long-term holding pastures, usually in Midwestern
States. Our own internal recommendation as to how many horses
should be on the range is somewhere just south of 30,000. So we
are nearly double what it should be range wide. In some places,
some individual spaces it is many fold over where it should be.
So we have two difficulties here. One is that the reproductive
rate is 15, 20 percent per year. These populations can double
in 3-and-a-half years, and on the back end of the program,
adoptions which is the outlet of the program have declined
precipitously. We used to adopt out nearly 10,000 horses a year
and now we are lucky if we get 2,000 adopted.
So a couple of things that we are doing, one, we are trying
to be more vocal about this. And so I appreciate you asking the
question. I think more public dialogue is needed. But we are
very focused on birth control methods and looking at, you know,
both drugs that can provide a 2-, 3-, 4-, 5-year window of
birth control because right now we have PZP, but PZP will only,
you know, reduce fertility for a year. And so we need a longer-
term tool because we can't get out and touch every horse every
year. It is just simply not possible with the budgets we have.
So we have invested nearly $11 million in roughly 20 different
projects, 15, 20 different projects. So we are working with
USGS. We are working with big universities trying to pull
together a research program that if we have success, it can be
verified, it can be duplicated. A lot of what we have seen in
the past has been smaller teams, smaller researchers, some of
which couldn't be replicated. So we are taking a big science
approach in hopes that we can truly find a solution on that
side.
We are also looking at issues of spaying and neutering. We
have to be creative about what's possible. I think in the
medium term, spaying and neutering horses as we spay and neuter
our dogs and cats may be something that we need to do. And so
we are researching that as well and the best tools and the best
ways. So that's part of our program.
We are also trying to talk vocally about the actual cost of
the program. One of the questions that I asked my team when I
joined the agency was, how much are we spending? Because, you
know, the team sat with me one day and said, here are three
scenarios for potential gathers next year. How many should we
do? And I said, well, what's the long-term cost that comes with
each one of those choices? And we didn't have an answer. It
took as you while to figure out lifetime costs, but that
lifetime cost is approximately $50,000, or up to $50,000 per
horse over the course of its life. So that is a lot of money
that could be invested into a lot of very important public
programs. So it is important for us that we find more adopters,
that we have fewer horses coming into the system, that we find
some broad--some broad ways to move forward. So if you have
other ideas, we are very open and I appreciate you asking the
question.
Mrs. Lummis. Well, thank you. It was pretty open-ended
because I don't have any better ideas, so I appreciate that.
And I want to thank the gentleman for indulging this lengthy
discussion. The gentleman, Mr. Palmer, is recognized for 5
minutes.
Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Madam Chairman. On the horse issue,
I have one constituent that this is a big deal with her and she
will be delighted that I asked about this. But does the Bureau
of Land Management engage in the sale of wild horses, for
instance, to Asian markets?
Mr. Kornze. We do not sell outside of the country that I am
aware of.
Mr. Palmer. Is there a sale for meat products, dog food,
things like that?
Mr. Kornze. No.
Mr. Palmer. So there's no sale conducted by the Bureau of
Land Management, just a management of the herd issue?
Mr. Kornze. Yeah, our focus is on making sure that there's
a humane situation for the horses; that they end up with good
homes.
Mr. Palmer. Okay, thank you. I want to get to some of the
other questions here. The Bureau of Land Management is
considering implementing a rule an methane emissions. The EPA
is already doing this. Seems to me that this is an unnecessary
overlap and I bring this up because prior to 2008, and I've
raised this point in hearing after hearing, there were 100,000
new businesses started up each year, more than businesses that
closed; 100,000 more businesses open than closed. Since 2008,
it is now 70,000 more businesses closing than opening up. We
now rank 12th in the world among the industrialized nations in
entrepreneurism. And one of the things that we consistently
hear about, particularly the small business, is being
overregulated and the complexity of the regulations and the
uncertainty that it creates in trying to make a decision
whether to open a business, expand a business, invest capital.
It just seems to me that if the EPA is already regulating
methane emissions at the wellhead, natural gas wells, it seems
to be just adding to the regulatory burden. Can you respond to
that?
Mr. Kornze. So we'll say that we are, EPA does have a
proposal that relates to venting. I don't believe it looks at
flaring. Our regulatory approach looks at both. We have been
working closely with EPA to make sure that we are not providing
duplication. In fact, we have a portion of our rule that speaks
to the fact that if you are meeting EPA requirements, that you
can step back from requirements that we have. So, and part of
what traditionally the EPA does is they look forward and say
new or modified operations, we'll follow their regulation,
whereas we already have 100,000 different oil and gas wells
open on public lands. So we have a regulatory responsibility
there. And the bigger issue is that there are--sort of brings
this all together for us and brings us the urgency is that
there's roughly $400 million worth of American energy going up
in the air. It is either being flared, or it's just being
vented so it's really a conversation about is there a way to
more productively in a reasonable fashion get more of the
energy in the pipelines and used in American homes because, you
know, I believe the statistic is something, it is enough energy
to power 5 million homes. So that is a loss that I am not sure
we are prepared to take, so we're taking a look at that and
that's why we are having a public comment on our rule.
Mr. Palmer. Are you applying this just on Federal lands or
is this across the board?
Mr. Kornze. Ours is just public lands. Yeah.
Mr. Palmer. Okay. Well, the interesting thing is, there's a
University of Texas study that they did in collaboration with
the Environmental Defense Fund that shows that the majority of
the hydraulically fractured well completions which were were
sampled during the study had equipment in place that reduced
methane emissions by 99 percent. So I just, it appears that the
technology is ahead of the curve, so to speak, and I do agree
with you, one of my concerns was--about the flaring is that we
are basically burning resources.
I wanted to ask you also about this 20-year moratorium on
coal leases that Secretary Jewell announced. Will that--do you
know or have any idea if there is an intention to apply that to
oil and natural gas leases as well?
Mr. Kornze. So it's a 3-year pause and then a programmatic
review which mimics what was done in the Nixon administration
and during the Reagan administration. I have not heard any
discussion of doing something similar with oil and gas.
Mr. Palmer. How about timber?
Mr. Kornze. No.
Mr. Palmer. All right. One of the things that I have
pointed out is that the United States is literally an energy
super power.
Mr. Kornze. Yeah.
Mr. Palmer. I mean, I think we have only explored 15
percent of our offshore resources. We've got--and from what I
have gotten from the Bureau of Land Management in my own
research, enormous reserves of oil and natural gas. Just
stunning amounts. What I would like, if you don't mind and my
time is--has run out here, you could respond in writing to
this. I would like for, if you could, to send to my office your
estimated reserves on Federal lands for oil, natural gas, coal
and timber, you know, your latest estimates on Federal lands.
Mr. Kornze. You bet. We would be happy to do that.
Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I yield back.
Mrs. Lummis. I was extremely indulgent with my own time,
and Mr. Palmer, I appreciate your being more timely than I was.
Do you have any further questions?
Mr. Palmer. No, I think I am fine.
Mrs. Lummis. Okay, I appreciate it very much. I have a
couple of followup questions, Mr. Kornze, before we let you go.
And thank you for appearing this morning in this abbreviated
week in Congress.
With regard to the BLM Permit Processing Improvement Act of
2014, how many employees has BLM hired since this became law?
Mr. Kornze. I am going to have to track that down for you.
Mrs. Lummis. Okay, I'd appreciate it. We'd love to have
those numbers so we understand specifically the exact field
offices where hiring of inspectors and other positions have
taken place.
Mr. Kornze. You bet.
Mrs. Lummis. So if we could have it at that level of
detail, I think that would be very instructive to us as to the
direction that is being taken as this law is implemented.
We also are interested in the allocation of funds to each
field office for the previous fiscal year and the
accomplishments of each field office relating to the
coordination and processing of oil and gas use authorizations.
So the question being, and this is a report that I believe the
agency is required to have completed. It would be helpful to us
to have it completed as soon as possible, or get us even some
information as we go into this appropriation cycle so we can
better understand the approach that you are taking with regard
to human resource allocations----
Mr. Kornze. Yeah.
Mrs. Lummis. --and how this law is being implemented. Has
that information been given to interior environment approps? Am
I asking for redundant information, or----
Mr. Kornze. I don't believe we have. I mean, if this mimics
the information that would come from the report that we
referred to earlier, if you can provide, you know, specific
data requests, you know, we might be able to get that to you,
you know, in a fairly efficient manner.
Mrs. Lummis. Okay, well, we will do that and we'll ask the
staff of this subcommittee to follow up with you in hopes that
we can better understand as we prepare our request to the
interior environment approps committee that we understand the
allocation of human resources in these various offices. And
understand the manpower needs and what we hear from our
constituents about whether they are being met or not. We would
appreciate that very much.
Thank you very much for appearing before this subcommittee
today. It is an abbreviated week in Congress, and lots is going
on. We're trying to cram 4 days of business into 3, and
consequently, everyone is running hither, thither and yon, but
your time and attention this morning this deeply appreciated by
this committee, and I should probably go to whatever--see if--I
guess there's no further business.
The announcements were made about how members have extra
time. We've asked you the questions we need to, so there is no
further business. We thank you, again. Without objection, the
subcommittee stands adjourned.
Mr. Kornze. Okay. Thank you very much.
[Whereupon, at 9:59 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
APPENDIX
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