    [House Hearing, 114 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                      PRIVATE SECTOR WEATHER FORECASTING:
                      ASSESSING PRODUCTS AND TECHNOLOGIES

    =======================================================================

                                     HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                          SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT

                  COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                   __________

                                  June 8, 2016

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 114-81

                                   __________

     Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

           Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov

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                       HON. LAMAR S. SMITH, Texas, Chair
    FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma             EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
    F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR.,         ZOE LOFGREN, California
        Wisconsin                        DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois
    DANA ROHRABACHER, California         DONNA F. EDWARDS, Maryland
    RANDY NEUGEBAUER, Texas              SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
    MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas             ERIC SWALWELL, California
    MO BROOKS, Alabama                   ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
    RANDY HULTGREN, Illinois             AMI BERA, California
    BILL POSEY, Florida                  ELIZABETH H. ESTY, Connecticut
    THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              MARC A. VEASEY, Texas
    JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma            KATHERINE M. CLARK, Massachusetts
    RANDY K. WEBER, Texas                DON S. BEYER, JR., Virginia
    JOHN R. MOOLENAAR, Michigan          ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado
    STEVE KNIGHT, California             PAUL TONKO, New York
    BRIAN BABIN, Texas                   MARK TAKANO, California
    BRUCE WESTERMAN, Arkansas            BILL FOSTER, Illinois
    BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia
    GARY PALMER, Alabama
    BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia
    RALPH LEE ABRAHAM, Louisiana
    DARIN LaHOOD, Illinois
    WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio
                                     ------

                          Subcommittee on Environment

                     HON. JIM BRIDENSTINE, Oklahoma, Chair
    F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, JR.          SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
    RANDY NEUGEBAUER, Texas              DONNA F. EDWARDS, Maryland
    RANDY WEBER, Texas                   ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
    JOHN MOOLENAAR, Michigan             AMI BERA, California
    BRIAN BABIN, Texas                   MARK TAKANO, California
    BRUCE WESTERMAN, Arkansas            BILL FOSTER, Illinois
    GARY PALMER, Alabama                 EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas
    RALPH LEE ABRAHAM, Louisiana

                               C O N T E N T S

                                  June 8, 2016

                                                                       Page
    Witness List.....................................................     2

    Hearing Charter..................................................     3

                               Opening Statements

    Statement by Representative Jim Bridenstine, Chairman,
      Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and
      Technology, U.S. House of Representatives......................     4
        Written Statement............................................     6

    Statement by Representative Suzanne Bonamici, Ranking Minority
      Member, Subcommittee on Enviorment, Committee on Science,
      Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........     8
        Written Statement............................................     9

    Statement by Representative Eddie Bernice Johnson, Ranking
      Minority Member, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
      U.S. House of Representatives..................................    11
        Written Statement............................................    12

                                   Witnesses:

    Mr. Barry Myers, CEO, AccuWeather
        Oral Statement...............................................    13
        Written Statement............................................    15

    Mr. Jim Block, Chief Meteorological Officer, Schneider Electric
        Oral Statement...............................................    27
        Written Statement............................................    29

    Dr. Neil Jacobs, Chief Scientist, Panasonic Weather Solutions,
      Panasonic
        Oral Statement...............................................    76
        Written Statement............................................    78

    Dr. Antonio Busalacchi, Director, Earth System Interdisciplinary
      Center, University of Maryland
        Oral Statement...............................................    97
        Written Statement............................................    99

    Dr. Sandy MacDonald, Director, Numerical Weather Prediction,
      Spire Global
        Oral Statement...............................................   122
        Written Statement............................................   123
    Discussion.......................................................   128

                 Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions

    Dr. Neil Jacobs, Chief Scientist, Panasonic Weather Solutions,
      Panasonic......................................................   142

    Dr. Antonio Busalacchi, Director, Earth System Interdisciplinary
      Center, University of Maryland.................................   145

                      PRIVATE SECTOR WEATHER FORECASTING:
                      ASSESSING PRODUCTS AND TECHNOLOGIES

                                  ----------

                            WEDNESDAY, JUNE 8, 2016

                      House of Representatives,
                Subcommittee on Environment and
                   Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
                                                       Washington, D.C.

        The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 9:32 a.m., in
    Room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Jim
    Bridenstine [Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Bridenstine. The Subcommittee on Environment will
    come to order.
        Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare
    recesses of the Committee at any time.
        Welcome to today's hearing titled ``Private Sector Weather
    Forecasting: Assessing Products and Technologies.'' I recognize
    myself for five minutes for an opening statement.
        Good morning, and welcome to this morning's Environment
    Subcommittee hearing.
        The American weather enterprise is made up of stakeholders
    that provide services which ultimately save lives and property.
    Among these are private-sector weather forecasting companies
    that over the years have become a major source of weather
    information. Today we have companies that specialize in sector-
    specific forecasting, as well as companies which create their
    own forecasts that are disseminated to millions of Americans.
        The services they provide are essential to protecting
    Americans in the face of severe weather. This is particularly
    important to me as my constituents in Oklahoma face some of the
    most severe weather in the country. Providing them advanced
    warnings is critical. I look forward to hearing about the
    advances made by private-sector weather companies working on
    the forefront to protect lives and property.
        NOAA currently provides important data which is then
    utilized by other stakeholders to construct forecasts. Many
    private-sector companies also use their own methods and
    technologies to enhance this data.
        To me, there is a clear delineation here. NOAA should focus
    on providing the foundational datasets that others utilize to
    produce life-saving forecasts, rather than duplicating efforts
    and technologies that are employed or could be employed by the
    private sector.
        As an example, the main tenet of H.R. 1561, the Lucas-
    Bridenstine Weather Research and Forecasting Innovation Act, is
    its recognition of the role commercial weather data can play as
    a piece of the solutions available to NOAA. In the face of
    looming data gaps, we need to maintain continuous, efficient,
    robust, and cost-effective data streams to feed the initial
    conditions of our numerical weather prediction models.
        This Subcommittee has a long history of oversight of NOAA's
    satellite programs, which over the years have been plagued with
    cost-overruns, delays, and mismanagement. This has underscored
    my belief that we need to augment our space-based observing
    systems by incorporating alternative methods of data
    collection.
        Earlier this year before this subcommittee, NOAA
    Administrator Kathy Sullivan testified to the ability of the
    private sector to produce weather data. She testified that ``In
    the weather domain, we believe it is a promising but still
    quite nascent prospect to actually have data flows from
    private-sector satellites.'' Today, I am pleased to have one of
    the many private-sector satellite companies before us to
    discuss their perspectives on commercial weather data.
        I was encouraged by NOAA's budget request this year for
    commercial weather, which includes funding to continue the
    Commercial Weather Data Pilot program authorized by our House-
    passed weather bill. This pilot program is an important signal
    to the private sector that NOAA is interested in new and
    innovative sources of data.
        Likewise, I was also encouraged to see NOAA incorporate a
    line item for the purchase of radio occultation data as a
    potential alternative to another constellation of COSMIC
    satellites.
        The Commerce, Justice, and Science Appropriations bill
    supports both these initiatives, and I'd like to thank my
    colleagues on that committee, particularly Chairman Culberson.
        In light of these directions from Congress, I look forward
    to following up with NOAA to find out how these decisions will
    be made.
        I look forward to an in-depth discussion today about how
    private-sector data and products can build on the foundation
    provided by NOAA to help enhance the safety of all Americans.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Bridenstine follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Bridenstine. I now recognize the gentlewoman from
    Oregon, the Ranking Member, Ms. Bonamici, for an opening
    statement.
        Ms. Bonamici. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank
    you to all of our witnesses for being here today.
        I'd like to start by congratulating Dr. Busalacchi, who
    will soon be the President of the University Corporation for
    Atmospheric Research later this summer.
        Today's hearing is an opportunity to hear about the
    successes of the private weather industry, learn about the
    impressive weather research being conducted at academic
    institutions, and recognize the critical role that the National
    Weather Service has played, and will continue to play, in
    ensuring the strength and continuity of the entire American
    weather enterprise.
        The three sectors that make up the weather enterprise--
    private, public, and academic--work collectively to meet the
    needs of the public, inspire growth and innovation, and protect
    life and property. To maintain the progress we have made over
    the last decade, we must explore opportunities to leverage
    expertise across these sectors. More can be done by NOAA and
    the Weather Service to strengthen this partnership and keep us
    on a path of serving the public even better.
        If, however, Congress were to reduce the role of one
    sector, or shift responsibilities without considering how such
    a change might affect the entire enterprise, we risk upsetting
    the balance and losing the progress so many of us have worked
    so hard to achieve.
        In 2003, the National Academies released their seminal
    report on the weather partnership, ``Fair Weather: Effective
    Partnerships in Weather and Climate Services'', and their
    recommendations state that continued success requires
    recognizing the core mission of each partner.
        The core mission of the National Weather Service is to
    provide weather forecasts and warnings to protect life and
    property, and to enhance our national economy. The NWS network
    includes thousands of forecasters, across hundreds of forecast
    offices, who support the critical infrastructure of observing,
    data processing, prediction, and dissemination systems.
    Research taking place at our academic institutions advances the
    science needed to make forecasts more accurate, while inspiring
    the next generation of meteorologists. The private sector has
    the ability to use both the research and NWS data to tailor
    exciting new products to meet the changing demands of a diverse
    set of end-users and consumers.
        Although some advocate for disaggregating the current
    structure, I am confident that the weather enterprise is
    stronger together. In the 13 years since the release of the
    Fair Weather Report, the weather partnership has flourished and
    the state of U.S. weather forecasting is strong. Although we
    should always look for ways to improve, we must do so in ways
    that strengthen each partner, not diminish any of the key
    roles.
        I look forward to the discussion today about how we can
    accomplish that goal.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your leadership on this issue,
    and I yield back the balance of my time.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Bonamici follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Bridenstine. I'd like to thank the Ranking Member,
    and I now recognize the Ranking Member of the full Committee,
    Ms. Johnson, for an opening statement.
        Mrs. Johnson of Texas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman,
    and good morning, all.
        People in Texas are very familiar with the impact weather
    has on our daily lives. As a matter of fact, there is a common
    saying that we have all four seasons, and some days we have all
    of them in one day. In just the last few weeks, terrible floods
    have taken the lives of more than a dozen people.
        Weather has a universal impact, and it is only through
    reliable and accurate forecasts that we are able to act to
    protect ourselves. This is why the mission of the National
    Weather Service is to provide weather, water, and climate data,
    forecasts and warnings for the protection of life and property
    and enhancement of the national economy. So while this hearing
    is part of an ongoing dialogue regarding the role of the
    commercial weather industry in our weather enterprise, we must
    keep in mind that the protection of our citizens and national
    security are inherently government functions.
        That is why, in 2003, the National Academies Fair Weather
    Report provided recommendations of how to strengthen the
    existing partnership between the Weather Service, academia, and
    the private sector, and not simply strip away government
    functions as some may suggest. Despite the claims by some that
    we must disaggregate the weather enterprise, it is very clear
    to me that the existing partnership between these three sectors
    has made our weather forecasts more reliable and more accurate.
        We will hear from some of the witnesses that NWS should
    focus on its core functions and let private companies handle
    the rest. However, if weather data collection and weather
    forecasting are not core functions of the NWS, I don't know
    what is. As we must work to ensure that NWS's forecasts are as
    accurate and timely as possible, we need to make sure that NWS
    has the resources and mandates to do so.
        It should also be noted that NWS weather data has enabled
    the growth of a significant value-added industry. There may be
    ways that the private sector can complement and support that
    mission, but I'm very skeptical that transferring all of the
    responsibilities to the private sector is either wise or
    necessary, and therefore I do not support doing so.
        And finally, I would have hoped the Majority would have
    invited NOAA and the Weather Service to participate in this
    hearing but I look forward to hearing their perspective at
    another time.
        I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for having the hearing, and I
    yield back the balance of my time.
        [The prepared statement of Mrs. Johnson of Texas follows:]
        [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Bridenstine. The gentlelady yields back.
        Let me introduce our witnesses, and because we're short on
    time--we have the Prime Minister from India here today--I'm
    going to skip the long and impressive bios, and I'll just
    introduce the individuals here.
        Our first witness today is Mr. Barry Myers, CEO of
    AccuWeather. Our next witness today is Mr. Jim Block, Chief
    Meteorological Officer for Schneider Electric. Our third
    witness today is Dr. Neil Jacobs, Chief Scientist for Panasonic
    Weather Solutions. Our next witness is Dr. Antonio Busalacchi,
    Director of the Earth System Interdisciplinary Center, and
    Professor in the Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Science
    at the University of Maryland. And our final witness today is
    Dr. Sandy MacDonald, Director of Numerical Weather Prediction
    at Spire Global.
        So I will now recognize Mr. Myers for five minutes--we'll
    say three minutes--to present his opening testimony.

                     TESTIMONY OF MR. BARRY MYERS,

                            CEO, ACCUWEATHER

        Mr. Myers. Good morning, Chairman Bridenstine, Ranking
    Member Bonamici, and members of the Subcommittee.
        AccuWeather is a global leader in weather information and
    digital distribution, and I'm honored to be invited to
    participate in today's hearing.
        The United States has the best weather information
    available to its citizens and its business and industrial
    sectors of any Nation. This result did not occur by the
    American weather industry acting alone; it was and continues to
    be the interactive, cooperative approach of the weather
    industry, the academic research community, and NOAA and its
    National Weather Service that has led to this result. These
    entities form the Nation's weather enterprise.
        American weather companies are now becoming the focal point
    for weather information in many countries around the world. For
    example, the number one weather mobile source in Europe is an
    American company, AccuWeather. We estimate that AccuWeather
    information is on 1.5 billion or more devices globally. It's
    American business leadership, academic research, and government
    partnerships that are propelling this American weather
    phenomenon.
        Some believe that the reduction in weather-related deaths
    in the United States since the late 1950s when the American
    weather industry was at its beginning through the joint and
    collaborative efforts within the weather enterprise have saved
    as many as 1 to 2 million lives. These successes were enabled
    by the foundational partnership between the National Weather
    Service and the weather companies that directly receive NWS
    data, observations, forecast models and so forth, which the
    weather companies and private-sector meteorologists develop
    into weather information products for Americans and for the
    global marketplace. Private-sector innovation and investment
    has enabled many of the technological advances in how American
    weather companies communicate weather to the public.
        At the end of World War II, about 98 percent of the weather
    information received by the public came from the government
    directly, and now it's estimated that that's reversed and about
    98 percent comes from the weather industry, and this includes
    special warnings for tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, et cetera.
    The 24/7/365 acquisition and distribution of core foundational
    data, funding research and development, and running of models
    and issuing government warnings are some of the most important
    things that the National Weather Services does, and those that
    the entire weather community and the public rely on.
        There needs to be a renewed effort within the weather
    enterprise with the Environment Subcommittee through its
    oversight role to strengthen the foundational data partnership
    between the National Weather Service and the private-sector
    weather industry, which industry is now woven into the fabric
    of American life. America's weather industry is a critical
    piece of the Nation's weather value chain as the 2012 National
    Academy of Sciences report clearly points out. The private
    weather sector needs to be supported and nurtured by NOAA for
    the good of the Nation.
        If NOAA does its part, the private sector will do its part
    by continuing to foster technological innovation in the
    development of more advanced and sophisticated weather
    products, forecast services, presentations, and communication
    of weather and warnings to the public.
        Mr. Chairman and members of the Subcommittee, thank you for
    inviting me to participate today. I would be pleased of course
    to answer any questions you may have.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Myers follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Bridenstine. Thank you, Mr. Myers.
        Mr. Block, you're recognized for three minutes.

                      TESTIMONY OF MR. JIM BLOCK,

                     CHIEF METEOROLOGICAL OFFICER,

                           SCHNEIDER ELECTRIC

        Mr. Block. Thank you, Chairman Bridenstine, Ranking Member
    Bonamici. I appreciate the invitation to testify today on the
    opportunities for public and private partnership to deliver
    improved weather forecasting services for American taxpayers.
        My name is Jim Block, and I'm a Fellow of the American
    Meteorological Society and a Certified Consulting Meteorologist
    at Schneider Electric. Schneider Electric a global Fortune 300
    company with 170,000 employees worldwide, $30 billion in sales,
    and operations in more than 100 countries. We have facilities
    with almost 300 employees in Ms. Bonamici's district, and 360
    in Mr. Rohrabacher's, for example. Schneider Electric is a
    specialist in energy management and automation offering
    integrated solutions across multiple market segments including
    buildings, industrial manufacturers, utilities, and data
    centers.
        We maintain the largest commercial business-to-business
    weather forecasting and consulting organization in the United
    States, providing accurate weather forecasting for over 15,000
    customers all over the world. We utilize more than 80 separate
    data sources including those from NOAA. We innovate and develop
    specialized technology to take the NOAA data and add value by
    fine-tuning it and aligning it to specific customer needs. For
    example, we predict turbulence and flight hazards for over 250
    airlines. We also help determine the amount of chemicals to put
    on icy roads for over 30 state transportation agencies. We
    provide the temperature forecasts used by 70 percent of U.S.
    utilities as well as protect many sports teams from adverse
    weather.
        Currently, commercial weather services like Schneider
    Electric focus on solutions to solve specific end-user
    problems. Conversely, NOAA provides general forecasts and
    warnings for the overall protection of life and property along
    with services that support those activities. This division of
    services between the private and public sectors of weather is
    very efficient and services the American taxpayer very well.
    However, it requires more cooperation and communication between
    NOAA and companies like Schneider Electric to work effectively.
        Some critics may question the need for a government weather
    agency at all. However, we strongly disagree. No commercial
    entity can operate the weather infrastructure that NOAA
    operates today, but at the same time, the multitude and
    diversity of end-user projects can only be addressed by
    companies like ours and others using information from NOAA and
    other sources.
        We offer the following recommendations to drive public-
    private partnerships and help deliver the best results to
    communities and taxpayers. First, there should be more, and
    more effective, cooperation between NOAA and the private
    sector. We believe that strong cooperation between NOAA and the
    private sector is necessary and long overdue, and we believe
    that NOAA should have a regular committee that includes
    permanent private-sector members.
        Second, NOAA should place more emphasis on the use of
    existing data sets from commercial sources. We believe there is
    a need to look at the relationship between NOAA and downstream
    service providers such as Schneider Electric. We believe that
    NOAA can benefit from our specialized knowledge of weather
    information end users. For example, Schneider Electric has
    built and now operates the largest agricultural weather network
    in the United States, which consists of more than 4,600 weather
    stations located on farms, where the data is used by farmers to
    make critical decisions on a daily basis. This is information
    that could be tremendously useful to NOAA.
        Third, NOAA should eliminate decision support services that
    duplicate those available in the private sector. NOAA should
    refrain from overextending its scope beyond data sets and
    severe weather warnings. We believe that the private sector can
    and should collaborate with NOAA on any downstream user or
    business services with clear role delineation. Specialized
    services have a marginal benefit to the public and needlessly
    tie up taxpayer dollars on offers that are already available in
    the private sector. Closer cooperation with NOAA could resolve
    such situations.
        We believe that NOAA's mission can be enhanced and be more
    cost-effective if NOAA works more closely with the private
    sector, uses data sets such as the ag weather networks, and
    eliminates duplicative services.
        We commend the Committee for considering our
    recommendations, and thank you for the opportunity to speak
    today.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Block follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Bridenstine. Thank you, Mr. Block.
        Dr. Jacobs, you're recognized for three minutes.

                     TESTIMONY OF DR. NEIL JACOBS,

                            CHIEF SCIENTIST,

                 PANASONIC WEATHER SOLUTIONS, PANASONIC

        Dr. Jacobs. Good morning, Chairman Bridenstine, Ranking
    Member Bonamici, members of the Subcommittee. My name is Neil
    Jacobs, and I serve as Chief Scientist for Panasonic Weather
    Solutions. I am honored to be invited to participate in today's
    hearing.
        Panasonic has a great public-private partnership to provide
    its TAMDAR data to NOAA through the National Mesonet Program,
    which is an example of a successful and sustainable business
    model for data acquisition. Panasonic is very pleased to
    continue our long-term relationship with NOAA to improve the
    quality of weather forecasting. The distinct advantages of our
    TAMDAR data will enhance the National Weather Service's core
    mission: the protection of life and property.
        TAMDAR provides real-time global observations of wind,
    temperature and moisture, its spatial and temporal resolutions
    greater than both radiosondes and ACARS. TAMDAR-equipped
    aircraft and UAVs also report real-time icing and turbulence,
    which are routinely used by the NTSB for accident
    investigations. The SATCOM transmission doubles as a real-time
    back channel communication and flight tracking system.
        Dr. Louis Uccellini, Director of NOAA's National Weather
    Service, said the National Weather Service has long recognized
    the utility of TAMDAR data for analysis and numerical forecast
    models, and I am pleased about this path forward to incorporate
    these data in our day-to-day operations. Dr. Curtis Marshall of
    the National Weather Service has said the provision of this
    unique TAMDAR data set continues to steer the National Mesonet
    Program in a direction consistent with the National Academy of
    Science's Network of Networks vision of a broad range of non-
    federal data to improve situational awareness at the National
    Weather Service forecast offices and to enhance our high-
    resolution modeling capabilities.
        Panasonic also runs a suite of models from rapid cycling
    regional models to our own global model including an 80-member
    ensemble. These models were developed through longstanding
    collaborative partnerships with both NCAR and several
    universities. Panasonic is the only private entity in the world
    with a custom-developed end-to-end operational global weather
    modeling platform initialized from raw observations. Panasonic
    has worked cooperatively with federal agencies by providing
    TAMDAR data to NOAA and the FAA and at many times at no cost.
        While we are a commercial company responsible to our
    shareholders, we also have another responsibility: to help
    share our technological expertise with meteorological agencies
    around the world.
        In closing, I would like to call the Subcommittee's
    attention to NOAA document NAO-216112, Policy on Partnerships
    and the Provision of Environmental Information. This policy is
    intended to strengthen the partnerships between public,
    private, and academic sectors to provide the Nation with the
    highest quality environmental information. The partnership
    agreement was approved in 2006 by then-NOAA Administrator Dr.
    Conrad Lautenbacher. It was developed in response to
    recommendations from the National Academy of Science and the
    Fair Weather report. I recommend the Subcommittee work closely
    with NOAA, the American Meteorological Society, and America's
    weather enterprise on any revisions to this important
    agreement.
        Mr. Chairman and members of the Subcommittee, thank you
    again for inviting me to participate today. I'm happy to take
    your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Jacobs follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Bridenstine. Thank you, Dr. Jacobs.
        Dr. Busalacchi, you're recognized for three minutes.

                  TESTIMONY OF DR. ANTONIO BUSALACCHI,

            DIRECTOR, EARTH SYSTEM INTERDISCIPLINARY CENTER,

                         UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND

        Dr. Busalacchi. Good morning Chairman Bridenstine and
    Ranking Member Bonamici, Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you
    for this opportunity to brief you again this morning.
        Let me begin by noting today's weather enterprise is a
    triad that consists of the academic and research communities,
    the public sector, and the private sector. The government's
    traditional role within this triad is the protection of life,
    property and enhancement of national security. This public-
    sector role is grounded in sustainability and dependability of
    observational data and models that have free and open access.
    The private sector's traditional role is to create customized
    and tailored products to a broad customer base of private
    individuals and businesses in a multitude of sectors. The
    academic community works to improve our common understanding of
    your system, perform basic and applied research that leads to
    innovation, and trains the next generation of workforce both
    for the government and the private sector. The three work
    together in a public-private partnership that on the world
    stage is often the exception rather than the rule. This is a
    particular strength of our Nation's approach to the weather
    enterprise. These three pillars of success have yielded the
    world's most comprehensive and successful array of weather
    services in support of the public and private good.
        While the roles of each of these legs of the weather
    enterprise must continue to evolve, weakening any single leg
    will compromise the entire enterprise and will negatively
    impact its diverse beneficiaries. We must also recognize that
    the private sector has been built upon and has benefited from
    the foundation of the free and open approach data and models.
    As a result of this tremendous investment from the public,
    there has been an enormous return to the public in terms of
    jobs and innovations.
        I think we should act with caution so as not to do any harm
    and assure that the marketplace retains its competitiveness and
    no barriers to entry are neglected. In short, we need to find a
    workable method to strategically plan the entire enterprise.
        The last major study from the National Academies, as you've
    heard, was the Fair Weather report of 2003. As a result of that
    report, NOAA worked to produce a policy to support
    dissemination of environmental information to the public that
    was beyond just weather data. In 2012, the Academies released a
    report on weather services for the Nation becoming second to
    none. That was an assessment of the National Weather Service
    modernization program. It had three main recommendations:
    prioritize core capabilities, evaluate function and structure,
    and leverage the entire enterprise, and that was the bulk of my
    written testimony.
        I believe it is time to revisit these two reports but we
    are lacking a national strategy, and I think we run the risk of
    losing sight of the big picture. At one moment we may be
    occupied by the challenge of commercialization of satellite
    observations, the next moment by the potential private-sector
    models, and the next by procuring models from another country,
    all at the expense of what may be best for the country as a
    whole. I can easy see a scenario where company X takes publicly
    supported and freely available models and data and adds unique
    value to them. Company Y sells some data to the government but
    withholds some for its business purposes, and Company Z has its
    own proprietary models and data that are not available for the
    common good. Is this what is best for our Nation to protect
    lives, property, and support our military in the field?
        Continued improvement in our forecasting ability requires
    that observations be reliable and accessible and forecasts for
    the public good be verified, validated and transparent.
        Prior to taking on my new position with UCAR, I was co-
    chairing the next Decadal Survey for Earth Science and
    Applications from Space. As requested by the Congress, all of
    the space sciences have a long history of these decadal surveys
    that the agencies are beholden to as well as the insight they
    provide to you, OMB and OSTP. We have no such activity for the
    weather enterprise. Given the evolving nature of the weather
    enterprise, I would submit we need an active and ongoing
    strategic planning process as could be achieved by Congress
    requesting a decadal survey for the weather enterprise
    inclusive of midway assessments and subsequent follow-on
    surveys.
        In closing, there is considerable upside potential for the
    Nation if we do it right. We have much to lose if we do it
    wrong. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Dr. Busalacchi follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Bridenstine. Thank you, Dr. Busalacchi.
        Dr. MacDonald, you're recognized for three minutes.

              TESTIMONY OF DR. SANDY MACDONALD, DIRECTOR,

               NUMERICAL WEATHER PREDICTION, SPIRE GLOBAL

        Mr. MacDonald. Chairman Bridenstine, Ranking Member
    Bonamici, and Members of the Committee, I retired from NOAA in
    January after 40 years, fabulous organization. I signed on to
    Spire Global Incorporated, which is a company that's going to
    use small satellites to I think bring revolutionary changes to
    our ability to observe the weather.
        I started my career as a young weather officer giving
    weather briefings, and the truth is, we had almost no
    information. The pilots, their lives depended on what we could
    tell them, and we knew very little. I'm sure our Chairman could
    vouch for that occasionally.
        But it's a different world now. The government, originally
    a sole player in those days, I think has now been enhanced by
    our growing commercial sector, which I think if we have the
    right policies, we can have a fabulous partnership between the
    academic, the public and the private weather capabilities to
    serve this country.
        I'll give a couple examples. I was, back in about the year
    2000, part of a group who said let's have a community model,
    the weather research and forecast model, and I think NCAR and
    NOAA and others, NASA, worked on this but the big thing that I
    think that happened was, NCAR basically said we're going to
    make this a real community model to support it, to not have
    intellectual-property issues and other issues get in the way,
    we'll have workshops and so on. It's been a huge success. So
    it's a great example of private-public partnership. I think the
    fact that the Panasonic model that Neil Jacobs talked about
    used the Weather Service GFS model is another example of that.
        I'd like to talk about the satellite observing systems. I
    think that the private sector can really bring some dynamism
    and complementary to the federal sector in satellites, and a
    good example of that is Spire, the company that I work for. We
    all remember when we went from mainframes to PCs. I think
    that's what Spire is trying to do with satellites. They're
    trying to take a big, expensive technology, put it down in a
    little tiny box, and still get incredible quality out of it. So
    they propose to generate radio occultations from cubesats. I
    think they're going to have probably 30,000, 40,000 next year,
    and their goal is 100,000 COSMIC 1-quality radio occultations.
    This is like having a radiosonde balloon that has a sounding
    for every degree of lat and longitude over the entire globe.
        I think it's important that we protect our federal sector.
    It's really what we depend on for safety, for working on Earth
    system issues. Examples of those are COSMIC 2. We know that
    GOES-R and JPSS are going to have a fabulous set of sensors.
    It's really important that we have the private sector be
    complementary to that.
        Finally, I'd like to say I think the sort of strength of
    the U.S. is its ability to mix the advantages of public and
    private, and I think that's our job here to do that in the
    weather business.
        Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. MacDonald follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Bridenstine. I'd like to thank all the witnesses
    for their testimonies.
        Members are reminded that Committee rules limit questioning
    to five minutes, and I'll start by recognizing myself for five
    minutes.
        Dr. Jacobs, I wanted to start with you. Panasonic has its
    own numerical weather models, and Panasonic uses its own data
    in some cases, and in many cases uses data from NOAA and other
    sources as well. Can you share with us your weather forecasting
    models? How does that compare to the GFS--the Global
    Forecasting System--or the European model? How is your model
    comparing to the others?
        Dr. Jacobs. So that's correct. We use our own data. We
    bundle that with all the publicly available data. We assimilate
    that into a suite of different models, our flagship model being
    a global model. It differs slightly from NSEP's in both the
    data assimilation scheme as well as a lot of the modifications
    and the physics. Its performance really depends on how you
    verify it. If you verify it through sort of the standard
    anomaly correlations, it's slightly ahead of NSEP. The European
    center had a major upgrade in March. It's slightly lagging the
    European center. If you verify it through other means,
    particularly case studies, there's been some major weather
    events over the last two years where it's outperformed both.
        If you actually consider the fact that we have complete
    control over the system that's fully customizable from a
    business perspective, it's highly advantageous because we can
    write out files in increments, levels and variables that you
    wouldn't normally get from the government center because our
    motivation is actually helping other businesses. We believe
    that the Weather Service's mission is to protect life and
    property.
        Chairman Bridenstine. Has anybody from NOAA or the
    Department of Defense reached out to you to get information on
    how you're able to accomplish this?
        Dr. Jacobs. Yes. I actually have some meetings at the
    Pentagon lined up shortly. I'll be giving a seminar next month
    on some of our data assimilation methods. Our software
    engineers are in constant contact with the NSEP, and to the
    extent that it doesn't negatively impact our business model, we
    do share information with them.
        Chairman Bridenstine. And the intent with the model is to
    what? You want to license the outcomes, the outputs of your
    model? Is that your intent?
        Dr. Jacobs. Well, the primary intent would be to customize
    and develop products and applications to sell to other
    industries. They would be products that you can't normally
    derive from the publicly generated weather model data. As far
    as the government agencies are concerned, the possibility of
    licensing some of the software does exist.
        Chairman Bridenstine. And my understanding is, your model
    is a global model to establish the global initial conditions
    for weather forecasting. Can you share with us, does your model
    have the ability to do mesoscale forecasting or even microscale
    forecasting for my constituents that are obviously hit with
    severe weather from time to time?
        Dr. Jacobs. Right. So one of the reasons why we decided to
    run our own global model is, every regional model needs what
    they call boundary conditions provided by a global model. So we
    run the global model to provide lateral boundary conditions to
    high-resolution nested regional models. We currently run
    several different nested regions running from 4 to 2-1/2
    kilometers, and within those nested regions we can have high-
    resolution domains down to sub-one kilometer.
        Chairman Bridenstine. Got it.
        And Mr. Block, how has NOAA reacted to your innovation with
    weather modeling and forecasting?
        Mr. Block. They have expressed considerable interest in
    the--especially in the ag weather network data that we provide,
    and we look forward to working more closely with them to figure
    out how we can use that information or even extend or expand
    that information to add things like soil temperature or soil
    moisture to the observations we make.
        Chairman Bridenstine. Awesome.
        Dr. MacDonald, how many GPS radio occultation sensors has
    Spire launched to date?
        Mr. MacDonald. So far, I think we're kind of at the
    beginning. We actually have four satellites and then two test
    satellites, and we're just learning how to get the quality out
    of them that we need.
        Chairman Bridenstine. And is your intent to establish your
    own numerical weather models as well or to piggyback on the
    numerical weather models of others?
        Mr. MacDonald. Our intent is not to establish our own
    weather models except to the extent that we want to be able to
    test the value of these so that we can talk to our customers
    and show that it's valuable.
        Chairman Bridenstine. So your objective would then be to
    provide a service to others that are providing the model? It
    could be Panasonic, it could be NOAA, it could be others?
        Mr. MacDonald. That's correct.
        Chairman Bridenstine. Okay. I've been encouraged that NOAA
    is moving forward with the commercial weather data pilot as
    outlined in the bipartisan House-passed weather bill, H.R.
    1561. I'm very pleased with that.
        Dr. MacDonald, can you give me your take on NOAA's approach
    to working with the private sector to incorporate data such as
    Spire data into their weather models?
        Mr. MacDonald. I think that we have to see about the
    future. I think the ideas in the Fair Weather Act and the
    experience already with private data being available that Neil
    Jacobs just talked about shows that the path is there, so we're
    hoping that we can have that partnership with the data also.
        Chairman Bridenstine. Excellent.
        And I'd like to--my time is out. I'll recognize the Ranking
    Member from Oregon, Ms. Bonamici, for five minutes.
        Ms. Bonamici. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you
    to all the witnesses for your testimony.
        Dr. Busalacchi, a well-funded and forward-thinking Weather
    Service is critical for the continued protection of the lives
    and public of the American public, and we certainly heard that
    recognition not just from you but from others today, and we
    want continued growth.
        You mention in your testimony the need for a national
    strategy, so I'm going to ask you about a couple of things, and
    then I want you to talk about what you envision as part of the
    national strategy. One, should we be investing in greater
    supercomputing capacity for the Weather Service, and if so,
    what would be the needs for optimal model runs? And then also,
    Dr. Block mentioned in his prepared statement that NOAA should
    leverage the examples of other agencies and have regular
    committee or working groups that include the private-sector
    members. So do you have any perspectives on that idea? Are
    there other models that may be considered? And what would you
    envision as a national strategy?
        Dr. Busalacchi. Thank you very much. So with respect to
    supercomputing, the answer is yes, but--so if you look at one
    of the reasons why for this medium-range time scale for
    weather, predicting weather on time scales from three to five
    to seven days, one of the reasons why we're about ten years
    behind the Europeans is in part because of supercomputing, but
    as a result of your encouragement, NOAA is now at the forefront
    worldwide in supercomputing capability at this instant. What we
    lack is the budgetary, the planning process to keep us there,
    all right? In years past we were behind the Europeans. We're
    now at the forefront but for a snapshot. One problem. So we
    need to solve that.
        The second problem is this whole topic of transition from
    research to operations so that the Nation can take the best of
    the best wherever it comes from, not just the private sector
    but from academia as well. Europeans are much better at doing
    that transition from research to operations. NOAA has a plan
    called RTAP, Research Transition Acceleration Program, that is
    going to try and move that. I think that's in the right
    direction. But one of the challenges going forward with respect
    to a strategy--so Mr. Block's recommendations are very
    consistent with what were in the Fair Weather report of 2003,
    13 years ago. One of the challenges there is follow-up. I don't
    think we need another report onto itself but we need a process.
        So over the years I've done something like 20 different
    National Academy reports. Oftentimes those reports end up on a
    shelf collecting dust because there's no follow-up, and that's
    why I recommended a decadal survey because it's mandated by
    you. The agencies need to show cause if they differ from the
    recommendations in the decadal survey. Five years into the
    process--I mean after the report is written, there's a midterm
    assessment to see whether or not the agencies are doing what
    was encouraged, and then five years after that, there's another
    decadal survey. So it's a process, it's not a one-off activity.
    And it's not--we're not talking here about a bunch of
    academics. It is this three-legged stool. One-third of my
    colleagues here from the private sector, one-third from
    academia, and you couldn't have the feds at the table but you
    could have one-third composed of former senior government
    officials now in industry like Sandy MacDonald. Myself, I spent
    18 years in NASA as an SESR, then went into academia. So you
    have--you're taking advantage of the best of the best.
        Ms. Bonamici. Dr. Busalacchi, I don't mean to interrupt but
    I want to get another question in before my time expires.
        The employees of the National Weather Service work
    tirelessly to serve our communities and assist, for example,
    with natural disasters. My State of Oregon and the Northwest
    have faced severe wildfires. Weather Service employees have
    provided specialized forecasts tailored to those wildfires to
    help firefighters safely and effectively extinguish them.
        So the National Weather Service is a public good, so could
    you explain why it's important that the Weather Service provide
    the baseline forecasts? What other benefits are there of having
    government-provided publicly accessible forecasts?
        Dr. Busalacchi. So again, the vast majority of what my
    colleagues have spoken to about here are founded upon the
    publicly available forecasts and the data, and again, in terms
    of the role of the government, in terms of protecting public
    life, infrastructure and, again, homeland and national
    security, we need to have the best of the best, and that goes
    back to this three-legged stool: having the private sector
    engaged, having academia and the research engaged, and having a
    strong partner in the government as well. That's, in my
    opinion, the only way that we could have the best of the best
    and compete with the Europeans.
        Ms. Bonamici. Terrific. Thank you.
        My time's about to expire. I yield back. Thank you, Mr.
    Chairman.
        Chairman Bridenstine. I thank the Ranking Member.
        As I pass the baton here for one second, I'd like to get
    Dr. MacDonald to respond to Dr. Busalacchi. You mentioned that
    the movement from research to operations is going well. Dr.
    MacDonald, do you agree with that? When you think about the
    high-resolution rapid refresh model, didn't that sit on the
    shelf for years?
        Mr. MacDonald. I think the high-resolution rapid refresh
    should have gone faster but I think it's a pretty fabulous
    model and I'm exciting about that accomplishment.
        In terms of how well we do research to operations, I think
    a major point is that we can always do better. I think we
    learned a lot where we said okay, we're going to have these big
    community models and everybody can work on them. The point that
    I'm making is, we did that for the regional models. I think we
    want to do that now for the global models, and I think it's
    crucial.
        Chairman Bridenstine. Dr. Busalacchi, you're recognized.
        Dr. Busalacchi. Thank you very much. Let me be very clear.
    I think that's one of the fundamental differences between us
    and the Europeans. I think the Europeans do a much better job
    of the transition from research to operations, so again, what I
    was trying to say is, we need to do better at sustaining
    computing and we need to do a much better job of transition of
    research to operations from the research community as well as
    the private sector.
        Chairman Bridenstine. Got it. Okay.
        I'd like to recognize Mr. Weber from the State of Texas for
    five minutes.
        Mr. Weber. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        These will be for Dr. Jacobs. I'll start with you. Dr.
    Jacobs, in your experience, in your opinion, does the federal
    government and NOAA facilitate, hinder or resist commercial
    weather opportunities and involvement?
        Dr. Jacobs. I would say they facilitate it, particularly on
    the data acquisition side. So there's been--we've had a very
    good experience in working with them and contracting for
    aircraft data. It's been a little tricky navigating the re
    distribution rights issue but by and large we're very happy
    with how things have gone, and I believe and they believe that
    it's improving their mission, improving their models and
    improving their forecasts.
        Mr. Weber. Okay. Well, I didn't mean to put you on the spot
    but I wanted to put you on the spot.
        Dr. MacDonald, I'm going to come to you with the same
    question, and Dr. Jacobs, I want you to think about it. You
    said it was a little tricky. I'm going to give you a one minute
    warning here to facilitate some of that stuff. You'll get your
    chance to abuse the witness.
        Dr. MacDonald, I'm going to come to you, same question. Do
    you think NOAA facilitates, hinders or resists commercial
    weather opportunities and involvement?
        Mr. MacDonald. I think in our case, in Spire, we have good
    hopes that we're going to have a great relationship with NOAA.
    I appreciate Neil's comment because they've dealt with this
    issue already, and he said it was tricky but they got through
    it, so I'm really hoping that in our case with fabulous
    satellite data we really have that opportunity to help the
    world.
        Mr. Weber. And Dr. Jacobs, back to you. Your one minute is
    up. You said it was tricky in them doing it. How so?
        Dr. Jacobs. So traditionally, per the WMO's Resolution 40,
    most data that's produced by NOAA is redistributed freely to
    the other government international met centers. That impacts
    our business model because if we want to sell it to the
    European center, we can't sell it to the European center if
    NOAA buys it from us and gives it to the European center. There
    is a provision in the WMO Resolution 40 that allows for
    redistribution restrictions for commercially acquired data
    provided it's defined as non-essential. So we've asked that
    that be restricted for the purposes of sort of forcing the WMO
    members into a cost-sharing model. So if we actually prevent
    redistribution, then we get to charge NOAA less because we can
    actually sell it to the other government international met
    centers, thereby sort of forcing a cost-sharing model on all
    the government agencies worldwide.
        Mr. Weber. But I'm assuming you make up that income
    difference by selling it to the other agencies?
        Dr. Jacobs. We're currently in contract discussions with
    both the European center and the U.K. met office for data
    acquisition. Every government met center has their own special
    needs. For example, some smaller countries don't even run a
    global model so they're only interested in the regional data
    around their domain.
        Mr. Weber. Okay. This really, I guess, is a question for
    the three on the right here. We'll start back with you, Dr.
    Jacobs. Do you see any bias from NOAA in certain weather
    predictions? In other words, I'm speaking specifically about
    climate change, global warming, sea-level rise. Are you seeing
    any bias whatsoever?
        Dr. Jacobs. Most of the forecasting that Panasonic is
    involved in is in the zero- to 2-week range. Every numerical
    model has its own unique bias characteristics but that's more
    in the weather, not really so much in the climate.
        Mr. Weber. Fair enough.
        Is it Busalacchi? Is that how you say it?
        Dr. Busalacchi. Perfect.
        Mr. Weber. Okay.
        Dr. Busalacchi. With respect to the science of weather and
    climate, absolutely no bias at all.
        Mr. Weber. That's good to hear.
        Dr. Busalacchi. What I say, though, is with respect to
    model development for weather, the agency faces almost a catch-
    22. If they choose a model that's developed in-house, they will
    be criticized by the external community for a ``not invented
    here'' syndrome. If they choose a model from the community
    that's not invented within the agency, they're going to get
    criticized, well, why are you making this investment inside the
    agency when you can get it outside. So they're darned if they
    do and they're darned if they don't.
        Mr. Weber. All right. I'm going to move over to you, Dr.
    MacDonald.
        Mr. MacDonald. I do not see bias. I see scientists who
    argue about all aspects of it, and with reports like IPCC and
    others, I think it's well represented, and no, I don't see a
    bias.
        Mr. Weber. Okay. That's good to hear.
        Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
        Chairman Bridenstine. The gentleman yields back.
        Dr. Jacobs, just to follow up, if you--if your goal is to
    sell data to the Europeans or your goal is to sell data to
    NOAA, why did you build your own model?
        Dr. Jacobs. Well, part of the reason for that was, we can't
    fully subsidize the cost of collecting the data so to run the
    data off the aircraft through SATCOM is quite expensive. So we
    offset that by generating products and services. The main
    reason why we actually run the models is to do quality control
    on the data because what we wanted to do is have the customers
    get the best value and impact of the data.
        Chairman Bridenstine. So it's to test the data? That's----
    --
        Dr. Jacobs. It's to test, and when we do provide the data,
    we provide a set of quality control flags along with the data.
    Those are derived from the data assimilation component in our
    model.
        Chairman Bridenstine. Okay.
        I'd like to recognize the Ranking Member of the full
    Committee, Mrs. Johnson, for five minutes.
        Mrs. Johnson of Texas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        Dr. Busalacchi, I think what I'm hearing is that the NWS
    and the U.S. best work together or are at their best working
    together. Is that right?
        Dr. Busalacchi. That's correct. Again, I think a unique
    strength of our approach, the U.S. approach to the Nation's
    weather enterprise, is when the government, the private sector
    and the research community are working together all towards a
    common purpose. That's correct.
        Mrs. Johnson of Texas. I have seen a great improvement in
    weather predictions, and I hope that'll continue to improve
    because I've also seen where it saved a lot of lives even
    though in many cases there might be property destroyed. Lives
    are being saved because of those projections and people have
    time to get out of the way.
        We also talk a lot on this Committee about changes killing
    jobs, and I'm trying to figure out if it's privatized, what
    would happen to these seasoned employees that are government
    workers?
        Dr. Busalacchi. So I'm sure there's great concern within
    the agency. I mean, I used to be--the two of us used to be
    civil servants and so they provide this core support that has
    allowed over the last 20 years my colleagues here in the
    private sector to build off that. If that core support is gone,
    we may have some near-term gains but in the mid to long term
    the enterprise may well collapse on itself because that core of
    the data and these foundational models just won't be there for
    the private sector to flourish.
        Mrs. Johnson of Texas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield
    back.
        Chairman Bridenstine. The gentlelady yields back.
        I'd like to recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Babin,
    for five minutes.
        Mr. Babin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. And
    thank you, witnesses, for being here.
        I'd like to ask my first question of Mr. Myers of
    AccuWeather. Mr. Myers, who makes up the American weather
    industry, quote, unquote, and what steps could be taken to
    improve cooperative relationships between NOAA and these
    companies? If you could elaborate on that, I would appreciate
    it.
        Mr. Myers. Well, I think different people have different
    definitions of what constitutes the American weather industry.
    If you look at some of the groups like the Weather Coalition or
    the American Weather and Climate Industry Association, they're
    very welcoming of all members who touch upon any form of
    weather information and forecasts from the data collection
    itself all the way through the modeling and to the distributors
    of information. So I think the definition is relatively broad.
    Your second question was?
        Mr. Babin. What could we do to improve cooperative
    relationships between NOAA and these particular companies that
    you just mentioned?
        Mr. Myers. Well, this has been an ongoing effort at least
    that I've been involved in for 20-some years actively, and I
    think that it is generally improved. If you looked at a chart,
    it would be on the upswing. I think there needs to be further
    interaction at all levels of NOAA. I think that NOAA could
    benefit from better understanding exactly what the value is
    that the weather industry brings to the whole weather
    enterprise. We do get a lot of that recognition now in many of
    the management areas. A number of years ago when you talked
    about these things, it was looked upon as though we were
    competing somehow with what the government does but quite to
    the contrary, I have been here to testify and on other
    committees many times in support of funding for NOAA and the
    job that they do. I think that things like the EISG committee
    as part of the SAB for NOAA has over the last six or seven
    years it's been in existence has been very beneficial in
    interacting and enhancing that communication, and I think
    activities like that need to continue and be strengthened.
        Mr. Babin. Okay. Thank you. And in your mind, what is the
    goal of weather forecasts in the future? How far out will we be
    able to accurately predict the weather, and are there specific
    goals for the next five, ten, fifteen years?
        Mr. Myers. Well, I know at AccuWeather, we're constantly
    pushing the envelope, and we sometimes get criticized for doing
    so. We launched a 90-day forecast, for example, that has day-
    by-day predictions that some have made a joke of, but the fact
    is that there's actual science behind it. I know when we first
    started introducing a 5-day forecast decades ago, people said
    the same thing: ``You can't do it.'' I think that there is no
    end to what you can do. Our accuracy, for example, with tornado
    and hurricane forecasting is literally amazing. We have had
    plants evacuated 20 minutes before they've been totally
    destroyed by tornados and saved all the lives inside. The U.S.
    Congress in its report on Hurricane Katrina talked about how
    AccuWeather was in fact the only organization that had it right
    and far enough in advance.
        So there are lots of things that can be done. I think that
    better understanding of what in fact the private sector does in
    forecasting is very important because we do specialize in a
    number of areas and activities, and even outside independent
    sources now that do ranking of forecasts have shown that the
    AccuWeather forecasts are actually statistically more valid
    than anybody's, and there are ways that that happens. It's not
    just magic.
        Mr. Babin. Absolutely. Thank you so much.
        Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
        Chairman Bridenstine. The gentleman yields back.
        I recognize the gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Perlmutter.
        Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. I was told I had to go very,
    very, very last since I'm not on the Committee, so I'm happy to
    go or I'm happy to wait my turn.
        Chairman Bridenstine. We'll let you go.
        Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you, sir.
        And to the panelist from Colorado, welcome. Dr. MacDonald,
    good to see you. Dr. Busalacchi, nice to have you. And
    gentlemen, I appreciate the testimony because one of the things
    I'm hearing generally is that there's an effort to work
    together to improve weather forecasting, predictions across the
    board, and as we've talked about in this Committee, for life,
    for property, for commerce, looking at those things, and a lot
    of the conversation that we've had when it comes to, you know,
    industry participating in weather forecasting is really just a
    matter of contract, you know, who's going to get this
    advantage, who's going to get that advantage, who gets the
    redistribution rights, what are the royalties, those kinds of
    things, and if you're actually having a conversation and a
    dialogue, which it sounds like you are, then you can work out
    those contractual matters, and I appreciate the efforts being
    taken by everybody in this respect.
        And Dr. Busalacchi, congratulations on your appointment to
    head UCAR, and obviously that's a very important organization
    for Colorado at the National Climate and Atmospheric Research
    Center. So I appreciate the efforts to continue to work
    together because I do think it's a three-legged stool as you're
    talking about. You've got academia, the private sector and
    government because the one thing we know is the private sector
    is interested in profits, and that's okay. That's the way it
    works. And if there isn't profits, then the question is, is
    that private company going to be altruistic and look out for
    the public good. Sometimes maybe yes but mostly no because
    they've got to talk to their shareholders and provide for their
    shareholders.
        So having given that little speech, Dr. Busalacchi, some
    entities such as some of the companies represented today that
    the Weather Service should focus on its core forecasting
    functions and should not duplicate services that are already
    provided by the private sector. What's your opinion of that?
    Although I'm not sure I ever heard them say that.
        Dr. Busalacchi. No, I didn't hear it either, and one of the
    issues is, you know, who's going to arbitrate. So again, the
    role of the government, as I said before, is protection of
    life, property, support of economic competitiveness, and
    homeland and national security, and to do that, the government
    needs to be in the cutting edge and have these foundational
    data sets where we are the best in the world and then also have
    these free and open models so that my colleagues here can build
    upon it but again that those models need to be the best of the
    best, and as my colleague Sandy mentioned, the best way of
    being the best of the best is this community approach, taking
    advantage of the strengths of the academic community and the
    strengths of the private sector so that these core foundational
    models are at the forefront and the world's best.
        Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. And I'm going to turn to you,
    Dr. MacDonald, in just a second, but I wanted to thank all
    three legs of the school: academia, government and private
    industry. We have some constituents who were missing during
    Cyclone Winston down in the Fiji area, which was a huge storm
    down there, and among the three, we were able to determine even
    though there was no communication that the path of the storm
    kind of bypassed them, and it brought a lot of comfort to the
    family members in my district. So NCAR and UCAR helped me, NOAA
    helped me, and Digital Globe and a number of other companies,
    so thank you.
        So Dr. MacDonald, my question to you is, now that you moved
    from the NOAA world to Spire, how do you see the collaboration
    and the cooperation?
        Mr. MacDonald. Well, I think it's going to take time to,
    you know, learn how to get the kind of relationships that we
    need. What I see is that--I joined Spire basically because I
    see a fabulous capability that could become available, you
    know, very quick and that I don't think would in the normal
    course of our federal acquisition be available anywhere near as
    fast, so my hope is we work great together and we get better
    weather forecasts a lot sooner because of this situation.
        Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you. I yield back.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for letting me go out of order.
        Chairman Bridenstine. The gentleman yields back.
        A couple of important points I'd like to make, because
    there is a balancing act here between the public good and the
    private sector, and I think all of us on both sides of the
    aisle agree that we absolutely must have a government backbone
    because it is for the lives and safety of our citizens but also
    for the property of Americans. So I agree with that completely.
        I also believe that there's a commercial industry
    launching. Whether it's devices that are on aircraft or whether
    it's devices that are on satellites, at the end of the day
    they're going to be selling data to the commercial sector, and
    if by selling to NOAA, NOAA gives the data way for free, then
    they will never sell to NOAA and the public sector will miss
    out on critically valuable pieces of information that
    ultimately could save lives and property. So this is a
    balancing act that we're going to have to figure out why this
    Committee is so important.
        I'd like to recognize Mr. Westerman for 2 minutes. We have
    to be on the Floor of the House technically at 10:35, so we're
    going to go to 2-minute questions, so get your most important
    ones ready, and we'll go from there.
        So Mr. Westerman, you're recognized for 2 minutes.
        Mr. Westerman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Myers, you reference in your testimony the widespread
    use of smart devices these days. With the ever-expanding
    ability of crowdsourcing as a tool such with the success of the
    traffic app Waze, do you see this being applied to weather
    reporting in any way?
        Mr. Myers. Yes, absolutely it will be. The collection of
    information through crowdsourcing, through vehicle sensors and
    a whole host of other things is an important area. It's one
    that we have worked in extensively. In fact, we had one of the
    first patents having to do with the collection and reporting of
    severe weather through mobile devices, which, interestingly,
    for the Committee, we license for free to the National Weather
    Service because they were using that capability, and we felt it
    was so important. You know, people talk about the private
    sector but if you look at the company mission for AccuWeather,
    it starts out to protect lives and property, not to make a
    profit, not that we don't want to make a profit but--and it's
    our mission statement. Yes, it is. In fact, if you look at ours
    and the Weather Service's next to each other, you have a very
    hard time distinguishing the difference.
        I think that's true of most of the people that are in this
    field. They feel a strong obligation to the public to do these
    things, and constantly looking for ways to improve by using
    this kind of information.
        Mr. Westerman. And because we're limited in time, I'll just
    ask Mr. Block if he'd like to add to that.
        Mr. Block. Well, I certainly agree with a lot of the things
    that Barry is saying. In fact, we serve--my company serves over
    a thousand public emergency managers with our systems and our
    capabilities, and a lot of that information comes from NOAA,
    but it's disseminated--it's our systems that are actually the
    means of dissemination so for Schneider Electric, it's very
    important that we continue to work closely with NOAA and make
    sure that we're not in a competitive situation but in a
    cooperative one.
        Mr. Westerman. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Bridenstine. The gentleman yields back.
        The gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Palmer, is recognized for
    two minutes.
        Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Jacobs, I read an article where it talked about
    Panasonic's weather forecasting model that's among the best and
    maybe even the very best in the world, and there were some
    questions raised about whether or not Panasonic would share
    that model with NOAA or other organizations. Could you comment
    on that, please?
        Dr. Jacobs. Yes. Those--we do intend to share the
    information. What sort of form the information is shared in may
    depend on the licensing arrangement and redistribution rights
    obviously. Sharing the gridded data would be a lot different
    than sharing visual plots of model output, which can convey the
    same information, but the gridded data can actually be used for
    product generation, and if they redistributed the gridded data,
    it would negatively impact our business model. There are
    certain things that we can provide the Weather Service with to
    help improve their mission that wouldn't negatively impact our
    business model, and we would certainly do that.
        Mr. Palmer. How would Panasonic share information, for
    instance, with NOAA, you know, to provide necessary information
    to protect lives and property?
        Dr. Jacobs. Well, a good example of that would be the
    aircraft data. So we currently have a contract to sell NOAA a
    subset of our aircraft data, but in times in the past when
    there's been a national emergency, we typically define that as
    when the National Weather Service decides to do supplemental
    radiosonde launches at either 16 or 18 Z. When those alerts are
    issued, we will activate the full feed to pipe them the
    remainder of the data at no charge.
        Mr. Palmer. Well, considering that Panasonic claims to have
    the world's best, and I hope you do, I think this Committee
    would join me in looking forward to seeing that model.
        I yield back.
        Chairman Bridenstine. The gentleman yields back.
        And I'd like to--for Mr. Myers, regarding giving the data
    away for free, from my assessment, I absolutely 100 percent am
    committed if the government is creating the data with taxpayer
    money, that is public data, and I fully support making sure
    that that data is available to the world as part of our WMO 40
    agreements. It's the commercial data that is licensed that we
    have to be concerned about because if we don't do it right,
    then that commercial data will never be created, and if it's
    not created, then it can't be a public good for anybody.
        I'm going to go to Mr. Rohrabacher here in just a few
    minutes. Ms. Bonamici had a quick question. Would you mind if I
    yielded to her for one minute?
        Ms. Bonamici.
        Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        I just wanted, Dr. Busalacchi, if you could address what
    process is involved in validating the models and forecasts that
    are disseminated by the National Weather Service? Because if
    we're talking about or contemplating greater use of private
    data forecasts or models, should there be some similar
    validation or verification process before potential use in
    operational NWS forecasts?
        Dr. Busalacchi. So anything in the public domain is fully
    vetted, it's transparent. When dealing with the private sector,
    we have to talk about validation, verification, transparency.
    Our particular company, are their getting the right results or
    good results for the right reason? Can it be replicated? Can it
    be tested? That's all part and parcel of the scientific method,
    but at the same time, sometimes that's in conflict with
    intellectual property. But in terms of the public good, it has
    to be transparent, it has to be traceable in the peer-reviewed
    literature, absolutely.
        Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        Chairman Bridenstine. The gentlelady yields back.
        I now recognize Mr. Rohrabacher for two minutes.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        Just some fundamentals. How many weather satellites are
    there? When was the first weather satellite put into orbit?
        Mr. Block. I believe that the first weather satellite was
    launched in the early 1960s. It was the TIROS satellite.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. I remember--Mr. Chairman, I remember
    sitting through a hurricane back in the 1950s. We had almost no
    advance notice on it, and I'll just note that what we're
    talking about here saves not only lives, which are very
    important, probably thousands of lives, but also billions and
    billions of dollars. In that way, this is an industry that's
    paying for itself in so many ways, and the fact that the
    private sector is now deeply involved in this I think this is a
    very--an American story of success, and I want to thank the
    witnesses for enlightening us today as to details.
        One last--I'm sorry--perhaps a little bit more
    controversial question is, are experiencing more severe weather
    incidences today than they did 100 years ago? Just a yes or no
    down the line if I could.
        Mr. Myers. Not being a scientist, I'm going to pass on that
    question.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. All right.
        Mr. Block. I think the answer is yes, there is more--there
    are more instances of severe weather, but it's largely a
    function of the population and the urbanized areas increasing
    in size so there's more people to observe them.
        Dr. Jacobs. I would agree with that answer. I think that
    there's a lot more observations so it tends to show------
        Mr. Rohrabacher. So in other words, it's not more severe
    weather, it's just that we see more of it, especially now that
    we have so many satellites up there?
        Dr. Jacobs. Well, we don't necessarily know for sure
    because the inverse of that would be, there were no observing
    systems or observers back then, so we don't know if it was
    happening or not.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. All right.
        Dr. Busalacchi. So where we have long contiguous records,
    we do see an increase in extremes. In addition, we have an
    increase in population that's becoming more vulnerable to those
    extremes.
        Mr. MacDonald. I think Tony's answer captures my thoughts.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Bridenstine. The gentleman yields back.
        I'd like to thank the witnesses for their valuable
    testimony and the members for their questions.
        The record will remain open for two weeks for additional
    comments and written questions from members.

                                   Appendix I

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                       Answers to Post-Hearing Questions

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