    [House Hearing, 114 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                VARIOUS MEASURES

    =======================================================================

                                     MARKUP

                                   BEFORE THE

                          COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 SECOND SESSION

                                       ON

              H. Res. 634, H. Res. 660, H. Res. 728, H. Res. 729,
              H. Res. 750, H. Res. 780, H. Res. 808, H. Res. 810,
                 H. Res. 821, H.R. 4481, H.R. 5537, H.R. 5732,
                                 and H.R. 5094

                                   __________

                                 JULY 14, 2016

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 114-207

                                   __________

            Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs

     [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/
                                      or
                           http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/

                                     ______

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                          COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                     EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman
    CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey     ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
    ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida         BRAD SHERMAN, California
    DANA ROHRABACHER, California         GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
    STEVE CHABOT, Ohio                   ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
    JOE WILSON, South Carolina           GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
    MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas             THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
    TED POE, Texas                       BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
    MATT SALMON, Arizona                 KAREN BASS, California
    DARRELL E. ISSA, California          WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
    TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania             DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
    JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina          ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
    MO BROOKS, Alabama                   AMI BERA, California
    PAUL COOK, California                ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California
    RANDY K. WEBER SR., Texas            GRACE MENG, New York
    SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania            LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
    RON DeSANTIS, Florida                TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
    MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina         JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
    TED S. YOHO, Florida                 ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
    CURT CLAWSON, Florida                BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
    SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee
    REID J. RIBBLE, Wisconsin
    DAVID A. TROTT, Michigan
    LEE M. ZELDIN, New York
    DANIEL DONOVAN, New York

         Amy Porter, Chief of Staff      Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director

                   Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                                   MARKUP ON

    H. Res. 634, Recognizing the importance of the United States-
      Republic of Korea-Japan trilateral relationship to counter
      North Korean threats and nuclear proliferation, and to ensure
      regional security and human rights.............................     2
      Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to H. Res. 634 offered
        by the Honorable Matt Salmon, a Representative in Congress
        from the State of Arizona....................................     6
    H. Res. 660, Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives
      to support the territorial integrity of Georgia................    10
    H. Res. 728, Supporting human rights, democracy, and the rule of
      law in Cambodia................................................    17
      Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to H. Res. 728 offered
        by the Honorable Alan S. Lowenthal, a Representative in
        Congress from the State of California........................    22
    H. Res. 729, Expressing support for the expeditious consideration
      and finalization of a new, robust, and long-term Memorandum of
      Understanding on military assistance to Israel between the
      United States Government and the Government of Israel..........    28
    H. Res. 750, Urging the European Union to designate Hizballah in
      its entirety as a terrorist organization and increase pressure
      on it and its members..........................................    32
    H. Res. 780, Urging respect for the constitution of the
      Democratic Republic of the Congo in the democratic transition
      of power in 2016...............................................    37
      Amendment to H. Res. 780 offered by the Honorable Edward R.
        Royce, a Representative in Congress from the State of
        California, and chairman, Committee on Foreign Affairs.......    44
      Amendment to H. Res. 780 offered by the Honorable Christopher
        H. Smith, a Representative in Congress from the State of New
        Jersey.......................................................    46
    H. Res. 808, Calling on the Government of the Islamic Republic of
      Iran to release Iranian-Americans Siamak Namazi and his father,
      Baquer Namazi..................................................    47
    H. Res. 810, Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives
      regarding the life and work of Elie Wiesel in promoting human
      rights, peace, and Holocaust remembrance.......................    50
      Amendment to H. Res. 810 offered by the Honorable Edward R.
        Royce........................................................    54
    H. Res. 821, Urging the Government of Gabon to respect democratic
      principles during the August 2016 presidential elections.......    55
      Amendment to H. Res. 821 offered by the Honorable Gregory W.
        Meeks, a Representative in Congress from the State of New
        York.........................................................    59
    H.R. 4481, To amend the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 to provide
      assistance for developing countries to promote quality basic
      education and to establish the goal of all children in school
      and learning as an objective of the United States foreign
      assistance policy, and for other purposes......................    60
      Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to H.R. 4481 offered by
        the Honorable Edward R. Royce................................    88
    H.R. 5537, To promote internet access in developing countries and
      update foreign policy toward the internet, and for other
      purposes.......................................................   110
      Amendment to H.R. 5537 offered by the Honorable Edward R. Royce   126
    H.R. 5732, To halt the wholesale slaughter of the Syrian people,
      encourage a negotiated political settlement, and hold Syrian
      human rights abusers accountable for their crimes..............   127
      Amendment to H.R. 5732 offered by the Honorable Mark Meadows, a
        Representative in Congress from the State of North Carolina..   166
      Amendment #53 to H.R. 5732 offered by the Honorable Ileana Ros-
        Lehtinen, a Representative in Congress from the State of
        Florida......................................................   170
      Amendment #54 to H.R. 5732 offered by the Honorable Ileana Ros-
        Lehtinen.....................................................   171
      Amendment to H.R. 5732 offered by the Honorable Ted S. Yoho, a
        Representative in Congress from the State of Florida.........   174
    H.R. 5094, To contain, reverse, and deter Russian aggression in
      Ukraine, to assist Ukraine's democratic transition, and for
      other purposes.................................................   191
      Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to H.R. 5094 offered by
        the Honorable Eliot L. Engel, a Representative in Congress
        from the State of New York...................................   215
      Amendment to the Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to
        H.R. 5094 offered by the Honorable Gerald E. Connolly, a
        Representative in Congress from the Commonwealth of Virginia.   245

                                    APPENDIX

    Markup notice....................................................   252
    Markup minutes...................................................   253
    Markup summary...................................................   255
    The Honorable Christopher H. Smith, a Representative in Congress
      from the State of New Jersey: Prepared statement...............   257
    The Honorable David Cicilline, a Representative in Congress from
      the State of Rhode Island: Prepared statement..................   258
    The Honorable Michael T. McCaul, a Representative in Congress
      from the State of Texas: Prepared statement....................   260
    The Honorable David A. Trott, a Representative in Congress from
      the State of Michigan: Prepared statement......................   261

                                VARIOUS MEASURES

                                  ----------

                            THURSDAY, JULY 14, 2016

                           House of Representatives,

                         Committee on Foreign Affairs,

                                Washington, DC.

        The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:04 a.m., in
    room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Edward Royce
    (chairman of the committee) presiding.
        Chairman Royce. This committee will come to order.
        Pursuant to notice, we meet today to mark up 13 bipartisan
    measures. And without objection, all members may have 5 days to
    submit statements or extraneous materials on today's business.
        As members were notified yesterday, we intend to consider
    12 of today's 13 bipartisan measures en bloc, and then we will
    consider the Ukraine bill.
        And so without objection, the following items previously
    provided to members and in your packets will be considered en
    bloc and are considered as read.
        House Resolution 634,--I don't think we need to go
    beyond--no. I think we will just do it very efficiently here.
    House Resolution 660; House Resolution 728--but let me
    mention deg. the Salmon amendment 146 in the nature of a
    substitute to House Resolution 634; House Resolution
    660, as I said deg.; House Resolution 728, with the
    Lowenthal amendment 78 in the nature of a substitute; House
    Resolution 729; House Resolution 750; House Resolution 780,
    with Royce amendment 131 and Smith amendment to House
    Resolution 780; House Resolution 808; House Resolution 810,
    with Royce amendment 139; House Resolution 821, with the Meeks
    amendment to House Resolution 821; H.R. 4481, with the Royce
    amendment 130 in the nature of a substitute; H.R. 5537, with a
    Royce amendment to that H.R. 5537; H.R. 5732, with Meadows
    amendment 286, Ros-Lehtinen amendment 53, Ros-Lehtinen
    amendment 54, and the Yoho amendment 104.
        [The information referred to follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Chairman Royce. Now, the ranking member is on his way. And
    here he is.
        As a token of my appreciation for the extensive bipartisan
    work that went into today's business, I am going to limit to
    two sentences per measure my comments.
        So first, I want to thank Mr. Salmon for his leadership on
    House Resolution 634. This expresses support for increased
    trilateral cooperation with our Japanese and Korean allies, and
    this support is critical, given North Korea's continued
    belligerence.
        I also want to thank Judge Poe and Mr. Connolly for House
    Resolution 660, which urges the United States to deepen
    cooperation with Georgia, especially through strengthening the
    country's self-defense capabilities.
        Next year, the current memorandum of understanding
    regarding U.S. military assistance to Israel will expire, so I
    want to thank Chairman Emeritus Ros-Lehtinen and Mr. Deutch for
    introducing House Resolution 729, which urges the
    administration to work expeditiously to finalize a new robust
    agreement with our key security partner.
        Few threats to Israel are as great as that posed by the
    Iranian proxy Hezbollah. So I want to recognize the good work
    of Mr. Deutch on House Resolution 750, which urges the European
    Union to designate Hezbollah as a terrorist organization.
        I also want to thank Mr. Smith and Ms. Bass for introducing
    House Resolution 780, urging respect for free and fair
    elections in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Elections
    that have been delayed by President Kabila, as he seeks to
    avoid a clear constitutional requirement that he step down from
    power.
        House Resolution 821 urges Gabon to hold free and fair
    elections this August. Gabon is not on a good track. Election
    observers, including the National Democratic Institute, report
    the possibility of violence during the election period. If past
    elections are an example, voter lists and vote counting will
    surely be manipulated. The Gabonese people deserve better.
    Unfortunately, with no Presidential term limits in place, this
    could be the low standard.
        We also consider House Resolution 808, which calls on Iran
    to immediately release Iranian Americans Siamak Namazi and his
    father, Baquer Namazi, who are being held hostage by that
    regime in Evin prison. The regime in Tehran has not changed its
    ways, and it continues to threaten the United States, threaten
    our allies, and threaten our citizens.
        Our last resolution recognizes the great life and work of
    the recently deceased activist and historian, Elie Wiesel. It
    urges the continuation of his tremendous efforts to never
    forget and to ensure the tragedies of the Holocaust are never
    repeated.
        We also consider H.R. 4481, the Education for All Act,
    which increases direction and accountability for U.S. efforts
    to improve access to basic education in developing countries,
    particularly for girls and children affected by conflict and
    crisis. And I want to thank Ranking Member Engel and Mr. Smith
    for their good inputs into this measure and have welcomed, in
    particular, the bill's emphasis on girls' access to education
    and the importance of parental involvement in their children's
    schooling.
        Next, we turn to the Digital Global Access Policy Act,
    which will make it U.S. policy to alert the private sector to
    infrastructure projects in developing countries so that
    companies have the option of installing Internet access prior
    to a project's completion. This build-once policy is common
    sense, and it will help more people in developing countries get
    Internet access.
        And lastly, the ongoing atrocities in Syria continue to
    shock the world, so I am proud to be an original cosponsor of
    the Caesar Syrian Civilian Protection Act of 2016, which should
    make it harder for the Assad regime to acquire the tools to
    keep bombing and to keep gassing and to keep killing Syrians.
        And I thank our ranking member, Mr. Engel, who has long
    been at the forefront of Syria policy. And I now recognize the
    ranking member for his remarks.
        Mr. Engel. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for
    your kind words, and thank you for calling this markup. We are
    going into our summer recess with a bang, taking up 13 measures
    this morning, and I want to thank our members on both sides of
    the aisle for all their hard work.
        I am going to focus first on a bill that the chairman just
    mentioned that I introduced, and it is one of the measures we
    are considering en bloc. Earlier this week, Chairman Royce and
    I introduced the Caesar Syrian Civilian Protection Act.
        One of the most remarkable moments for me as ranking member
    took place 2 years ago when the man known as Caesar visited
    this committee. Our colleagues will remember that day very
    vividly. He was a photographer who worked for the Assad
    Government in Syria who defected to the opposition. He brought
    with him horrific photographic evidence of violence and torture
    and killing that the regime had inflicted upon its own people.
        The need for American leadership to end this crisis has
    never been greater, and my bill would provide the
    administration with even more tools to help end the bloodshed
    and usher in a political transition. This bill would impose new
    sanctions on any parties that continue to do business with the
    Assad regime, but leaves flexibility for the administration so
    that if negotiations go forward, sanctions could be waived on a
    case-by-case basis to keep things moving along.
        The bill also addresses war crimes and crimes against
    humanity that have been so obvious in this conflict by
    facilitating evidence collection and requiring a report to name
    and shame those responsible for human rights violations against
    the Syrian people.
        Lastly, this bill strengthens oversight of our cross-border
    assistance going into Syria and requires a report on the
    potential effectiveness, risks, and requirements of a no-fly
    zone over or safe zone in Syria. I am grateful to the chairman
    for joining me to introduce this bill, and I ask that all
    members support it.
        We have 11 other measures we are taking up en bloc, and I
    am glad to support all of them. Mr. Salmon's resolution,
    underscoring the importance of the U.S.-South Korea-Japan
    trilateral relationship, enhances regional security and holds
    North Korea accountable on its atrocious human rights record.
    Mr. Poe's resolution expresses support for Georgia's
    territorial integrity and condemns Putin's aggression and
    supports the people of Georgia. Mr. Lowenthal's resolution
    supports democracy, human rights, and the rule of law in
    Cambodia, and urges Cambodia's Government, headed by the same
    Prime Minister since 1985, to respect the democratic
    aspirations of its people. Ms. Ros-Lehtinen's measure calling
    for a new long-term memorandum of understanding between the
    United States and Israel demonstrates our steadfastness in our
    support of Israel's ability to defend itself. Mr. Deutch's
    resolution appropriately calls on the European Union to
    designate Hezbollah in its entirety as a terrorist
    organization. Mr. Smith's resolution urges respect for the
    Constitution of the Democratic Republic of the Congo in this
    year's transfer of power. And Chairman Royce and I were in the
    Democratic Republic of the Congo together just a few months
    ago.
        The chairman's measure calling on Iran's leaders to release
    Iranian Americans Siamak Namazi and his father, Baquer Namazi.
    It is outrageous that Iran continues to detain Americans on
    trumped up charges, and we need to keep holding Iran's feet to
    the fire on these issues.
        Another resolution from Mr. Smith urges Gabon's Government
    to respect and uphold democratic principles in the upcoming
    Presidential elections. The Education for All Act, sponsored by
    my neighbor from New York, Nita Lowey, helps ensure that
    expanding access to basic education remains a foreign policy
    priority in developing countries. A resolution from another New
    York colleague, Mr. Israel, honors the life and work of Elie
    Wiesel, a constant example of the sort of encourage needed to
    stand up against hatred and evil.
        And lastly, the chairman's Digital GAP Act, which I am
    happy to cosponsor, promotes our interest in seeing more people
    around the world get online. And I thank the chairman for his
    work on this measure.
        These are all good pieces of legislation I am glad to
    support. Again, I thank everyone for their hard work. I wish
    everyone a good summer break.
        I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a
    statement of support for H.R. 4481, the Education for All Act,
    from my good friend and ranking member of the Appropriations
    Committee and author of the bill, Mrs. Lowey.
        And I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Royce. Mr. Rohrabacher of California.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And let
    me note that I certainly support almost all of the bills that
    are being presented en bloc to us, but I have an absolute deep
    opposition to the bill that is aimed at Georgia and the
    situation in Georgia.
        Again, we have heard over and over again misinformation
    based on an irrational hostility toward Russia. We see this
    over and over again. We are leading the world not to a new cold
    war but the possibility of a real war with Russia; Russia who
    pulled back their military forces from a large chunk of Europe
    peacefully; Russia that has, yes, made some mistakes and
    actually done some things that are worthy of condemning.
        But if we take a look at what happened in Georgia and what
    the situation is, Georgia had a truce with warring factions in
    that part of the world. And what happened is that Georgia
    withdrew from the Soviet Union after the fall of Communism,
    which it had every right to do.
        There are two provinces of Georgia that had been given to
    Georgia by Joseph Stalin, two provinces that did not want to be
    part of Georgia, traditionally, historically, were not
    comfortable with having the Georgians over them: Ossetia and
    Abkhazia. Those two provinces immediately after the withdrawal
    from Russia began--there was an insurgency movement for
    independence for those two provinces, very similar to what we
    saw in Kosovo and Serbia. We sided with the Kosovars, by the
    way, because they had a right of self-determination.
        While the fighting that went on was so bloody that there
    was a truce that was reached with negotiations, Russia involved
    themselves in that truce by agreeing to have observers to that
    agreement. That truce lasted for years, until the United States
    decided that we were going to work with Georgia to bring
    Georgia into NATO. NATO, an armed alliance aimed specifically
    at Russia.
        And so we decided to bring Georgia into NATO, and Russia
    counteracted by offering the people in Ossetia and Abkhazia
    Russian citizenship if they wanted it, which was then countered
    by Georgia in an invasion of those two provinces. We keep
    talking about an aggression by Russia against Georgia. The
    truce that lasted--the truce that was there, the peace that was
    there was violated by Georgia, and what we call the invasion of
    Georgia was a retaliation. The very next day, they did not let
    the Georgians get away--into Georgia.
        And by the way, when the Georgians broke that truce and
    invaded Abkhazia and Ossetia with their army, they killed
    unarmed Russian observers of that truce agreement. Now, I don't
    know what we would do if there are American observers of a
    peace truce and they ended up being murdered by some people
    coming in, unarmed, I might add, coming in to make sure that
    their country took over two provinces like, I might say, just
    exactly like Mr. Eliot and I were very, very active making sure
    that the Serbians didn't get to kill everybody who got in their
    way, wouldn't be part of the greater Serbia after the breakup
    of Yugoslavia.
        And the fact is that Georgia today--we keep talking about
    the Russian aggression on Georgia. The Russian troops that we
    are talking about only went into those two provinces. They are
    now, yes, in those two provinces. And what we should do is make
    an agreement for any withdrawal of those troops by letting
    Ossetia and Abkhazia have a vote on where they want to be. Let
    them have a vote that is taken by the OSCE and down there could
    verify that vote. Let them make that determination.
        What we are doing is a hostile anti-Russian act in the name
    of trying to in some way make up for some act of aggression
    that did not take place with Russia. Russia retaliated against
    someone who had already broken a truce and broken the peace.
    And by the way, I have said that a dozen times here. It is
    always ignored. Condoleezza Rice was right at that table when I
    said exactly the same thing, and instead of denying it, she
    went around it.
        Now, I think that if we want to have peace in the world, we
    have to have a good working relationship with Russia. And
    instead, in an irrational hostility toward Russia, based on the
    fact that Stalin not only did this thing with Ossetia and
    Abkhazia, giving it to Georgia, but he murdered millions of
    people, Ukrainians. Stalin, and during the Soviet time,
    murdered millions of people in these subjugated areas, whether
    the Balkans or whether it is up in Latvia, Estonia, and
    Lithuania, and now those people have a historic grudge. We
    cannot let ourselves be pushed into a war with Russia because
    there is a historic grudge that is going on among those people.
        And if we are going to have peace in the world, we have to
    be sure of what we are doing and be honest about it, and we
    haven't been with Russia dealing with Georgia and dealing with
    the Baltic States, which I have not seen any military
    aggression going on in the Baltic States. Yet, we have B-52
    bombers--B-52 bombers--which are nuclear weapons delivery
    systems flying straight toward Russia and turning around as
    they get over the Baltic States. This is insane.
        What we would do if Russian bombers were headed straight
    into us--I mean, we are not talking about cruising along a
    coastline or cruising along boundary lines, we are talking
    about a war-type maneuver. And we are doing that in Georgia. We
    are doing that in the Baltics. It is ridiculous. And I would
    oppose this particular part of these bills today, but I support
    the rest of them.
        Chairman Royce. So now we go to Mr. Gerry Connolly of
    Virginia.
        Mr. Connolly. I thank the chair, and I thank the ranking
    member for bringing before the committee H. Res. 660,
    expressing support for the territorial integrity of Georgia. I
    also want to welcome the Ambassador of Georgia to this markup,
    who has joined us today.
        I introduced this resolution with my friend and colleague
    and cochair of the congressional caucus in Georgia, Judge Ted
    Poe, who unfortunately is not with us today.
        This resolution serves as a clear and unequivocal statement
    in support of the sovereign territory of Georgia and reiterates
    the longstanding United States policy to not recognize
    territorial changes effected by force as dictated by the
    Stimson Doctrine, established in 1932--not a new idea, not an
    anti-Putin idea--1932, by then-Secretary of State Henry
    Stimson.
        In Georgia and elsewhere in the region, revisionist talk
    notwithstanding, Russia has committed gross violations of these
    principles by fomenting unrest and aiding separatist movements
    in the countries along its periphery. Foundational,
    multilateral agreements reached for the purpose of maintaining
    a peaceful and stable international order, such as the Helsinki
    Final Act of 1975 and the charter of the United Nations itself,
    have been willfully disregarded by Russia at Vladimir Putin's
    behest.
        This resolution condemns strongly the forceable and illegal
    occupation of Abkhazia and South Ossetia regions in Georgia,
    and calls on Russia to withdraw its troops from those
    territories of another sovereign country. Phony elections with
    troops of a foreign power all over territory should be
    rejected. Those aren't Democratic instruments.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Would the gentleman yield for a question
    at that point that you just made?
        Mr. Connolly. I would.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Would you say elections that--would you
    agree that the solution to this would be elections in those
    provinces under the supervision of the OSCE, let those people
    decide?
        Mr. Connolly. I would argue that with Russian troops in
    those territories, no such election could ever be valid. And
    the first order of business, like in the Ukraine and the
    Crimea--which we are going to address separately--they must
    withdraw. You cannot have any confidence in an election when
    Russian troops are all over your territory. An election at the
    point of the gun? What democrat, with a small D, in America
    could ever consent to that? None of us can. None of us should.
        This committee has an opportunity right now with this
    resolution and with the Ukrainian resolution to follow to make
    a clarion statement that can be heard in Moscow. We will be
    unwavering in insisting on the territorial sovereignty of
    sovereign states, whether Putin likes it or not, whether there
    was Soviet history or not. We are where we are today, and we
    don't solve problems in Europe at the point of a gun.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Would the gentleman yield for another
    question?
        Mr. Connolly. I would happily yield to my friend.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Do you recognize or do you not recognize
    that the military action--that the initiator of the violence
    that you are condemning was the Georgian army that broke a
    long-lasting truce in that area and thus resulted in the
    occupation forces that you were talking about?
        Mr. Connolly. I would say, reclaiming my time to my friend,
    believe it or not, there are international mechanisms for
    dispute resolution. They do not include the invasion and
    occupation for 8 long years of another country's sovereign
    territory. That is not how we solve disputes.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. The question that I had to you was do you
    recognize----
        Mr. Connolly. I yield again my time to my friend.
        Mr. Rohrabacher [continuing]. That was the actual Georgians
    and not the Russians that initiated that violence?
        Mr. Connolly. Again, that is my friend's view of history,
    and I respect my friend, but there is another point of view
    about that history. And those disputes can be resolved in a
    peaceful manner, but they cannot be resolved so long as there
    are Russian troops occupying territory of another country.
        Certainly, my friend would agree that this territory is
    Georgian. That is not in dispute. And certainly, my friend
    would also agree, there are Russian troops in Georgian
    territory. Now, whether my friend wants to aid and abet Putin
    in his hegemony and occupying and annexing, as he did illegally
    in the Crimea, this territory of Georgia is a different matter.
        But I am urging my colleagues to reject my friend's
    argument and to wholeheartedly endorse this resolution so the
    statement from this committee representing the foreign affairs
    function of the United States Congress is as crystal clear as
    can be so there is no ambiguity.
        With that, I yield back.
        Chairman Royce. And we go now to Mr. Chabot of Ohio.
        Mr. Chabot. I thank the gentleman.
        I would like to commend you, Mr. Chairman and the ranking
    member, for bringing these bills before the committee today.
    These are all important measures, and it is encouraging to see
    the hard work of our colleagues that are being considered
    today.
        And again, the nature of this committee, for the most part,
    on a bipartisan manner, oftentimes the disagreements aren't
    necessarily between Republicans and Democrats; they are
    oftentimes between Republicans and Democrats and one or a few
    members of this committee sometimes. But--and I don't say that
    in a critical way.
        I rise in support of H. Res. 728, a bill that reaffirms the
    U.S. commitment to promoting democracy, human rights, and the
    rule of law in Cambodia. I am an original cosponsor of the
    bill, and I also serve as cochair of the Congressional Cambodia
    Caucus, along with my colleague, Mr. Lowenthal, and I commend
    him for offering this bill that I am talking about.
        In recent months, we have held a number of briefings and
    meetings with the State Department officials, with Cambodian
    Americans, as well as NGOs engaged in democracy building and
    rural law issues in Cambodia. And I have to say, I am very
    concerned about the situation there. Prime Minister Hun Sen
    continues to use bully tactics to sway the elections in his
    favor, and he has obviously been in control, in power in
    Cambodia for a long time. I believe he is the longest, at
    least, strong man serving in all of Asia.
        Opposition leader Sam Rainsy, who I have met with many
    times over the years, both in Cambodia and here, and who Mr.
    Lowenthal and I met with just last month, has real doubts about
    his ability even to return to Cambodia for fear of being in
    prison there on trumped-up charges, or worse. And now the
    deputy opposition leader Kem Sokha has seen charges brought
    against him.
        And there is reason to believe that there will be an
    intensifying crackdown on opposition prior to the election,
    which puts the election itself and its credibility in doubt,
    unfortunately, because Cambodia has the potential of being a
    truly great country and a very important part of the world. The
    people still should be living under much better circumstances
    than they are. It is obviously much better than it was when the
    Khmer Rouge was in power, when the killing fields occurred, and
    a quarter of the population was wiped out on the basis of, for
    example, whether you wore glasses or whether you had an
    education or a whole range of other issues.
        So it is not nearly as bad as it was back then clearly, but
    it should be so much better. And, unfortunately, because of the
    leadership of Hun Sen, the democracy that ought to be taking
    place in that country right now is being to a considerable
    degree thwarted. And if this behavior by Hun Sen and his
    supporters is allowed to continue and a suppression of the
    opposition and coercion of the opposition, in many cases, this
    could deal a serious blow to the democratic process just before
    the upcoming 2018 election.
        So I believe that this legislation will send a strong
    signal that the United States is paying close attention to the
    situation in Cambodia.
        I want to, again, thank Mr. Lowenthal for his leadership on
    this bill and on all issues in Cambodia, and I appreciate his
    cooperation in working on this issue, again, in a bipartisan
    way. So thank you very much.
        And I urge my colleagues to support it and the other
    legislation that we have discussed this morning and will
    discuss, and I yield back my time.
        Chairman Royce. Ted Deutch of Florida.
        Mr. Deutch. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to you and Ranking
    Member Engel for, again, working in the spirit of
    bipartisanship that has marked the leadership of this
    committee.
        I am proud to support this good slate of bills today, and I
    would like to thank Ranking Member Engel for his continued
    leadership on Syria with the Caesar Syrian Civilian Protection
    Act. I am also proud to cosponsor Congressman Poe and
    Congressman Connolly's resolution supporting Georgia's
    territorial integrity.
        And I would make a point of offering our thoughts and our
    prayers to Judge Poe as he goes home to get well.
        I also want to thank Chairman Royce and Mr. Connolly for
    introducing H. Res. 808, calling on the Government of Iran to
    release American citizens Siamak and Baquer Namazi. We cannot
    and we must not be silent as Iran continues to unlawfully
    detain American citizens, and we won't stop until the Namazis
    are released. And we also will not stop--will not stop--until
    Bob Levinson returns home to his family. He has now been
    separated from them for 9\1/2\ years.
        Mr. Chairman, I would like to just briefly talk about three
    of the measures before us that I am proud to have introduced.
    First, I would like to thank my friend and Chairman Ileana Ros-
    Lehtinen for working with me to introduce H.R. 729, which urges
    the expeditious conclusion of a new memorandum of understanding
    between the United States and Israel. I thank the many members
    of this committee who are also cosponsors. This resolution now
    has over 270 cosponsors, which underscores the deep bipartisan
    support for the U.S.-Israel relationship in this Congress.
        I traveled to Israel last week to assess the current
    security situation, and it is clear that Israel continues to
    face unprecedented threats from Hamas rockets in the south to
    Hezbollah's more than 100,000 rocket arsenal to ISIS
    affiliates, both on the Syrian border and on the Sinai. And it
    is because of the strong support from the United States that
    Israel is able to defend itself against these threats, many of
    which threaten our own strategic interests in the region.
        But the conclusion of this MOU is about more than just
    shared security threats. A new 10-year MOU will serve as the
    backbone of this relationship, and it sends a message to the
    entire world that the United States and Israel stand together.
    The administration has made clear that it wants to conclude the
    MOU as quickly as possible, that it is prepared to offer Israel
    the largest aid package to date. And I heard many encouraging
    things from those in Israel last week about the desire to reach
    an agreement.
        By passing this resolution today, Congress will go on
    record with the overwhelming bipartisan support for the U.S.-
    Israel relationship, and I urge my colleagues to support it.
        Second, I urge the committee to support H. Res. 750, which
    calls on the European Union to designate the whole of Hezbollah
    as a terrorist organization. I thank my colleagues,
    Representatives Bilirakis, Israel, Kelly, Lieu, Jeffries,
    Zeldin, and Davis, for joining me in introducing this
    resolution.
        In 2012, Congress passed a resolution that I authored with
    Congressman Kelly calling on the EU to designate Hezbollah. In
    2013, the EU designated the military wing of Hezbollah. Mr.
    Chairman, we all know there is no distinction between the
    military and political wings of a terrorist organization. There
    is only one Hezbollah; it is a terrorist organization. This
    country makes no distinction. Canada makes no distinction. The
    Gulf Cooperation Council and the Arab League make no
    distinction.
        Hezbollah is responsible for terrorist attacks in Europe,
    Latin America, and in Asia. It has well over 100,000 rockets
    pointed at Israel. Its fighters are on the ground in Syria
    doing Iran's dirty work helping the Assad regime slaughter tens
    of thousands of innocent Syrians.
        This organization uses the international financial system
    to fund its worldwide criminal enterprises, which in turn fund
    its terror activities. And I applaud our allies in Europe for
    the work they have done to crack down on Hezbollah's criminal
    activities. That is why they should take the next logical step
    of designating the entirety of Hezbollah as a terrorist
    organization. This designation will allow the EU to work even
    more closely with American authorities to prevent Hezbollah
    from using the international banking system to fund its global
    terror. I urge my colleagues to support this good and timely
    bill.
        And finally, I would like to thank the committee for moving
    swiftly to bring up H. Res. 810, recognizing the life and the
    incredible contributions of Elie Wiesel. It is difficult to
    truly capture the immense positive impact that Elie Wiesel had
    on our world.
        After surviving one of humanity's darkest moments, he
    worked to keep alive the memories and the stories of the
    millions of lives that were lost. He committed himself to
    fighting for the voiceless. He refused to stay silent as
    atrocities transpired against others. He was a source of
    inspiration for millions of people throughout the world, and he
    will forever live in history as one of the greatest and most
    influential and the bravest figures of his time.
        By passing this resolution today, particularly today, after
    the challenging month that our own Nation has had, we honor
    Elie Wiesel. And we recommit ourselves to overcoming even the
    most insurmountable of obstacles. We inspire ourselves to
    greater tolerance and to upholding the principle of never
    again.
        I appreciate it very much, Mr. Chairman. And I yield back.
        Chairman Royce. Thank you, Mr. Deutch.
        We go now to Ileana Ros-Lehtinen.
        Ms. Ros-Lehtinen. Thank you so much, Chairman Royce and
    Ranking Member Engel, for bringing before the committee my
    resolution, H. Res. 729, which is simple bipartisan common
    sense, and, as my colleague, Congressman Deutch, pointed out,
    has the support of over 270 cosponsors, including almost every
    single member of our committee. It calls upon the
    administration to conclude a new robust and long-term MOU on
    military assistance to Israel.
        I also wanted to express my support for H.R. 5732, the
    Caesar Syrian Civil Protection Act. In 2012, we passed in this
    committee a bill I authored, the Iran Threat Reduction and
    Syria Human Rights Act, which later became law, and part of our
    bill before us builds upon those sanctions. And I have offered
    two amendments that I think add to what we are trying to
    accomplish.
        And later today, Mr. Chairman, as you know, I will convene
    a hearing in our subcommittee on a GAO report that Ted Deutch,
    Ron DeSantis, Gerry Connolly, and I requested on undelivered
    humanitarian assistance into Syria. And I would also like to
    commend my friend, Mark Meadows, for offering his important
    amendment to name and shame the human rights violators in
    Syria. And I yield back.
        Chairman Royce. Mr. Lowenthal, were you seeking time? Yes,
    Alan.
        Mr. Lowenthal. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you
    for working with me.
        And thank you, Ranking Member Engel, for bringing up House
    Resolution 728 supporting human rights, democracy, and the rule
    of law in Cambodia.
        You know, Mr. Chair, you have been a leader on human rights
    and the rule of law in Cambodia for years, and I was so pleased
    to work with you to bring this resolution forward.
        I also want to thank Congressman Chabot. You have worked
    with me as the cochair on the Cambodia Caucus. We have brought
    together a bipartisan approach to democracy and the rule of law
    in Cambodia, and I just want to thank you as we bring this
    resolution forward.
        And I also want to thank Chairman Matt Salmon, who has been
    the Republican lead on this resolution. He brought it up in the
    Asia Subcommittee markup last week, where it was passed, and I
    want to thank him for working with us and his leadership on
    this issue. It is very much appreciated.
        Cambodia holds great promise for being one of the few open,
    free, and democratic societies in a region where democracy has
    been on the defensive. However, in recent years, the Cambodian
    Government, presided by the Prime Minister Hun Sen for the past
    31 years, has severely cracked down on the political opposition
    and all forms of dissent.
        This resolution outlines numerous instances of political
    violence since the 2013 national elections, which prolonged Hun
    Sen's grip on power and were marred by allegations of voting
    irregularities. The Cambodian Government has undertaken a
    comprehensive campaign to undermine the political opposition.
        Last year, the Cambodian Government revived a 7-year-old
    defamation charge against opposition leader Sam Rainsy,
    expelling him from the Parliament and forcing him into self-
    imposed exile. Since then, the government has sought to arrest
    Kem Sokha, the deputy opposition leader who remains under
    effective house arrest.
        And just this last weekend, prominent political activist
    and outspoken critic of the government, Kem Ley, was brutally
    gunned down in the streets of Phnom Penh. The true motive of
    his killing is not yet known, but the current unrest in
    Cambodia and the long history of political assassinations have
    led many to suspect the government's involvement in his murder.
        Just yesterday, I spoke with Mr. Kem Sokha, the deputy
    opposition leader. He told me now that he not only fears arrest
    by the government but that now he truly fears for his life. The
    deteriorating political situation in Cambodia demands action
    from the United States. That is why it is so important that we
    pass this resolution and show that Congress stands with the
    people of Cambodia and reaffirms our commitment to democracy,
    to human rights, and the rule of law in Cambodia.
        By passing House Resolution 728 today, we will send an
    important signal to the Cambodian Government that political
    violence of any kind will not be tolerated and that the
    Cambodian people must be able to enjoy freedom of speech and
    freedom to choose their own leaders.
        Again, I urge my colleagues to support the resolution and
    thank Chairman----
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Would the gentleman yield?
        Mr. Lowenthal. Yes.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Would the gentleman yield?
        Mr. Lowenthal. Yes, I will.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Let me just commend Congressman Lowenthal
    for his unstopping energy that he puts into this effort to
    bring peace and democracy to Cambodia.
        Over the years, I have tried to be supportive of his
    efforts. And I have been to Cambodia a number of times. It is
    time for Hun Sen to go. There was an argument that Hun Sen
    helped get rid of Pol Pot, who was a monster who murdered
    millions of his own people. Whatever happened in the past does
    not justify Hun Sen's continuing iron-fisted grip. And this is
    crony capitalism or crony communism, however you describe it in
    Cambodia. And we are going to have--they deserve our support
    for creating a more democratic society there.
        And thank you, Mr. Lowenthal, for all you are doing in this
    regard.
        Mr. Lowenthal. Thank you.
        Chairman Royce. I will just make the observation that we
    are going to have business on the floor at 10:05, so if any of
    the members here could submit their statements for the record,
    that would be very helpful.
        We are going to go to Mr. Weber of Texas.
        Mr. Weber. I thank the gentleman, thank the chairman.
        And I am going to speak on 660. I want to thank my good
    friend, Congressman Poe from Texas, for his excellent work on
    the resolution. Seems there has been some discussion about it.
    I will put my good friend, Mr. Connolly from Virginia, down as
    a ``lean yes'' and our good friend from California as an
    ``undecided.''
        I do want to commend the work that Congressman Poe and Mr.
    Connolly have done on this bill. I want to commend the work of
    the chairman and my colleagues on the full slate of legislation
    being marked up today.
        From the prompting of the EU to designate Hezbollah a
    terrorist organization, to the honoring of a true statesman, as
    many have already alluded to, Mr. Elie Wiesel, to the call for
    the release of yet more Iranian Americans illegally jailed, we
    have a block of legislation that is both timely and significant
    in its reach. And I appreciate the bipartisan work done on this
    committee.
        Mr. Chairman, in 2008, Russia signed a cease-fire agreement
    with Georgia committing to, among other things, the withdrawal
    of their military troops to prewar position. Eight years later,
    they have instead created an entire military base and continued
    to expand their territory within the sovereign nation of
    Georgia. In fact, reports suggest that Russian military and
    special forces invaded a village within the District of Guria
    where they created roads through the gardens of 48 local
    residents, divided the village cemetery in two, and destroyed
    the stadium along with thousands of apple trees. Additionally,
    Russian soldiers have kidnapped a number of Georgian citizens
    near the administrative border line separating South Ossetia
    and the rest of Georgia, and the detentions are on the rise.
        Russia is refusing to honor their agreement. Instead, they
    are signaling their desire to reclaim Georgia by the blatant
    attempt to co-op the upcoming October elections, as Mr.
    Connolly alluded to at the point of a gun perhaps, also via
    propaganda and the influence of Russian oligarch and
    billionaire Bidzina Ivanishvili. Worth at least $5 billion, Mr.
    Ivanishvili was recently exposed by the Panama Papers for his
    offshore financial deals, his illicit arms trades, and his
    continued efforts to control the Georgian Government behind the
    scenes.
        There is no question that Moscow is mounting an attack via
    Mr. Ivanishvili to acquire full control over Georgia once
    again. New pro-Russian political parties, blocks, and
    coalitions are being created almost daily thanks to the funding
    by Mr. Ivanishvili and Russian intelligence services. Pro-
    Russian propaganda has taken control of the television space in
    Georgia with the only pro-Western TV station, Rustavi 2, now
    facing the threat of a shutdown, all of these efforts
    personally organized and funded by Mr. Ivanishvili.
        Mr. Chairman, as evidenced by other resolutions on today's
    agenda, including those related to the countries of Cambodia,
    the Democratic Republic of Congo, and Gabon, this committee
    takes free elections very seriously, despite the recent
    revelation that our own Department of State used hundreds of
    thousands of dollars in taxpayers' funds to support election
    campaign efforts in opposition to Israeli Prime Minister
    Benjamin Netanyahu, the leader of one of our strongest allies
    in the world. That thwarts the very essence of a governing
    democracy. It goes against the very founding of our principles.
        Mr. Chairman, we must take a stand for the national
    sovereignty of our allies. We must push Russia to stand by
    their words and remove their troops from Georgia. We must
    provide a better example to those around the world by demanding
    free and fair elections.
        And in standing by those principles, in word indeed, I
    wholeheartedly support Congressman Poe's legislation. I thank
    my friend from Virginia for his part in it, and I also support
    the full slate of legislation today. I urge passage.
        And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
        Chairman Royce. I thank the gentleman.
        I would remind our members we still have the Ukraine bill
    that we need to debate, and so if we could be succinct in our
    comments.
        Mr. Cicilline is next from Rhode Island.
        Mr. Cicilline. With that request, Mr. Chairman, I will
    submit my comments for the record and just say thank you to you
    and to Ranking Member Engel for, again, conducting this markup
    in a bipartisan way. I think we should all be very proud of the
    resolutions that are before the committee today, which I think
    reflect our commitment to important allies around the world and
    our commitment to human rights, democracy, and rule of law, and
    international stability and peace.
        And with that, I will submit this, and thank you and yield
    back.
        Chairman Royce. Thank you, Mr. Cicilline. I deeply
    appreciate you submitting that for the record.
        We now go to Mr. Smith of New Jersey.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I will submit most
    of my comments for the record.
        Just very briefly to speak on the Democratic Republic of
    the Congo, which I think members realize faces a perilous
    course as elections scheduled for November look increasingly
    unlikely. The mandate for President Joseph Kabila and his
    country's national legislature will expire in late December and
    unless there is some way to either speed up the process for an
    acceptable election or find a way to create an acceptable
    transition in government to manage the election process, many
    of us, the State Department included, fear that that country
    could descend into chaos.
        I have met with Kabila's Special Envoy recently who tried
    to explain why, in the 5 years since the last election, the
    government couldn't make the necessary preparations to hold
    this election on time. His reasons did not justify the delays
    that have put his country on the brink of a constitutional
    crisis. That is why we have introduced H. Res. 780, to press
    the Kabila government to avoid a situation in which he remains
    in power indefinitely, contrary to the intent of his country's
    Constitution and the will of the people.
        I also would point out that backing the resolution is a
    group of the Congolese diaspora, including an opposition party
    member, religious leaders, and civic society groups. Because H.
    Res. 780, this coalition is calling for a process by which
    Kabila would appoint a Prime Minister under his country's
    emergency provisions to take over temporarily to hold the
    elections that will be considered acceptable to the Congolese
    people.
        Let me also point out the resolution on Gabon. H. Res. 821
    calls for an orderly peaceful, free, and fair Presidential
    election in that country. The 2009 elections were plagued with
    election irregularities and provoked destruction
    demonstrations, and a repeat of such a significantly flawed
    process could endanger the stability of that country. Our
    championing of a successful election for free, fair, and
    violence-free election puts governments on notice that we mean
    what we say about democracy, we will be watching and watching
    carefully.
        And finally, on H. Res. 660, about 10 days ago, I was in
    Tbilisi, Georgia. Eight years ago, I was there about 10 days
    after the invasion by the Russian troops, and I can tell you
    the scars are real. One hundred ninety-two thousand people were
    displaced at the time. Several hundred were killed. I remember
    I had some of my own constituents trapped in South Ossetia. We
    got them out, thankfully, after weeks of negotiations and many
    other children, American children, who were in Abkhazia as
    well. But this is a festering sore, and the Russians took South
    Ossetia and Abkhazia by force. They violated the Helsinki Final
    Act and follow-on agreements about territorial integrity.
        And I was at a checkpoint just 10 days ago, on the Georgia-
    South Ossetia border, and it was like the old Soviet Union. The
    Russian troops came to the checkpoint. They had made people
    wait upwards of 12 hours to cross over with food stuffs to get
    to people on the other side, and out came a Russian guard with
    a camera filming me and a few other Members who were standing
    there. It was the old Soviet reprise that we saw for so many
    years. The tensions are thick. It is important that we send
    this message.
        So thank you, Ted Poe and Mr. Connolly, for the resolution.
    Those two areas, South Ossetia and Abkhazia, were taken by
    force. Yes, there was perhaps a provocation of sorts, but
    nothing that caused the counteraction by the Russians in
    invasion and, again, it caused large losses of life and
    displacement of so many people.
        I thank the chairman. I yield back.
        Chairman Royce. Mr. Alan Grayson.
        Mr. Grayson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        When I look at these resolutions regarding Abkhazia, South
    Ossetia, the bill regarding the Ukraine and the Crimea, what is
    missing to me is a sense of respect for the wishes of the
    people involved. Too often we find ourselves viewing those
    people as pawns, as puppets, and we view this as some kind of
    colossal battle between one government and another without any
    regard for what the people involved actually want.
        As I indicated the last time we had a bill involving the
    Ukraine, the people of the Crimea voted overwhelmingly time and
    time again for pro-Russian parties. When they were part of the
    Ukraine, that is what they did. That reflected their will.
    There is no indication at this point, whether or not Russian
    troops are there, that most people in the Crimea would want to
    rejoin the Ukraine. Quite the contrary, the indication is that
    they would not, that they were not comfortable being part of
    that country when they were part of it, and they are not
    comfortable now with the idea or notion that they would be
    forced to rejoin the Ukraine.
        With regard to Abkhazia, with regard to South Ossetia, both
    of these areas held elections within the past 2 years. There is
    no evidence that has been provided that these elections were
    somehow twisted or perverted by the presence of foreign troops.
    In fact, from the looks of things, they had multicandidate
    elections. The elections looked to be fair. They certainly were
    vigorously contested. And they reached results that seemed to
    reflect the local priorities. The turnout was actually very
    high in both cases.
        So one has to wonder exactly what we think we are
    accomplishing by choosing sides against the will of the people
    in places like Abkhazia, in places like South Ossetia, in
    places like Crimea and so on.
        One of the great battles of the later part of the 20th
    century was the battle for decolonization. One of the great
    battles that I see for the early part of this century is the
    battle against internal colonization, taking large groups of
    people, that sometimes number in the millions, and keeping them
    trapped within a country they don't feel a part of against
    their will. It is no longer true of the Soviet Union. It still
    is true of Iran. Frankly, if South Ossetia and Abkhazia were
    returned to Georgia, it would be true of those places as well.
        We show all too much regard for the concept of territorial
    integrity without any regard for the concept of self-
    determination and the concept that people have the right to be
    part of a country that they want to be part of. It is that
    simple. And too often we find large groups of people who feel
    trapped in the wrong country.
        I agree that these matters should always be resolved
    without force. I think it is regrettable whenever any shot is
    fired over an issue of self-determination. But what we need, I
    think, more than anything else right now in these situations,
    whether it is Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Crimea, or anywhere
    else, we need some kind of peaceful resolution that reflects
    the popular will. And that is something that was never provided
    to the people of Crimea, never provided to people of Abkhazia,
    and South Ossetia, by the governments that purported to be
    governments covering those areas, whether we are talking about
    Georgia, Ukraine, or otherwise.
        We need to have some kind of consensus that it is all
    right, it is okay for a territory that is part of a government
    to separate and to do so through peaceful means, as we saw an
    attempt to do in Scotland recently and as we will see time and
    time again in Western democracies and other democracies all
    around the world. Yes, these things should be done through
    democratic means, but there must be a mechanism to do them.
        I yield back.
        Chairman Royce. We are going to go to Mr. Meadows for 1
    minute and then 1 minute to Mr. Sherman, but then we are going
    to have to go to the vote.
        Mr. Meadows.
        Mr. Meadows. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        My amendment basically works in very close harmony with the
    gentlewoman from Florida, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen's, fine work on
    the Syrian issue and to make actually the human rights abusers
    directly accountable for their crime. And so it puts in
    reporting language of 120 days for the President to submit a
    report on the 47 individuals that actually are either
    responsible or complicit in the human rights violation in
    Syria. So I would like to thank her, the Syrian Emergency Task
    Force, and certainly the author of the underlying bill for
    their work and leadership.
        And with that, I will yield back, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Royce. Thank you, Mr. Meadows.
        We will now go to Mr. Sherman of California.
        Mr. Sherman. I will associate myself with Mr. Lowenthal's
    comments on Cambodia. And while I will vote for the Georgia
    resolution, we should recognize that we often support not
    territorial integrity but self-determination, and we are often
    somewhat inconsistent on this. We supported the breakup of the
    Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, and the division of the Republic of
    Serbia. We oppose the division of Croatia, Georgia, and the
    Ukraine.
        In each case, we have taken the anti-Russian position. We
    should at least try to be as calm as possible with Russia, to
    recognize that we are not always consistent and absolute in our
    position, and that we should avoid pushing things to the very
    edge where we put military forces right up against a border
    when that is unnecessary. And I look forward to working with
    the members of this committee, even Mr. Rohrabacher, for a
    calmer relationship with Russia.
        I yield back.
        Chairman Royce. I thank the gentleman.
        Hearing no further requests for recognition, the question
    occurs on items considered en bloc.
        All those in favor, say aye.
        All those opposed, no.
        In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it, and the
    measures considered en bloc are agreed to.
        And without objection, the measures considered en bloc are
    ordered favorably reported as amended. Staff is directed to
    make any technical and conforming changes, and the Chair is
    authorized to seek House consideration under suspension of the
    rules.
        The Chair now calls up for consideration H.R. 5094, the
    Stability and Democracy for Ukraine Act. Without objection,
    Engel amendment 284 in the nature of a substitute will be
    considered base text, is considered read, and is open for
    amendment at any point.
        [The information referred to follows:]

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        Chairman Royce. And I want to thank the ranking member for
    authoring this important measure which tightens sanctions on
    Moscow, especially related to the forcible annexation of Crimea
    and includes measures to counter sanctions evasion.
        I now recognize the ranking member for his remarks on the
    bill.
        Mr. Engel. Thank you, again, Mr. Chairman.
        I am grateful that we are taking up the STAND for Ukraine
    Act, which I introduced in April with Mr. Kinzinger, a former
    member of this committee. The legislation underscores America's
    support for Ukraine's right to defend itself. Parts of Ukraine,
    as we know, are illegally occupied, so our aim with this bill
    is rooted in America's nonrecognition policy during the 50-year
    Soviet occupation of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.
        This bill links any sanctions relief to Russia fulfilling
    its obligations under the Minsk Agreement as well as making
    Crimea-related sanctions permanent so long as the Russian
    occupation there continues. It also tightens sanctions
    enforcement with a new anti-evasion framework and requires
    regular reports on banks illegally controlling Ukrainian
    assets, particularly Russian banks in Crimea.
        Additionally, this bill tries to drive new private sector
    investments in Ukraine, clamps down on Russia buying defense
    equipment or services from our NATO allies, targets human
    rights abuses in Russian-occupied areas, and calls for a
    strategy to push back against Russian propaganda.
        I want to thank Mr. Connolly of Virginia for offering an
    amendment, making clear that Crimea-related sanctions should
    not be dropped until Ukrainian sovereignty of Crimea has been
    restored. Let me also thank the gentleman for his tireless work
    on this issue. Thank you, Mr. Connolly. He has been laser-
    focused on it since the first day of this crisis and this
    measure makes this bill stronger.
        We need to send a message to the people of Ukraine that we
    stand with them and to Putin that his aggression and bullying
    won't go unanswered. I ask that all members support this bill,
    and I yield back.
        Chairman Royce. On the amendment referenced by Mr. Engel
    that has not yet been offered but will be, and before I yield
    the chair or turn over the chair to Mr. Smith, I did want to
    speak to this issue. And I think it is an issue we should all
    think on before we adopt this amendment, and I will tell you
    why.
        First, I want to thank the gentleman from Virginia for
    offering the amendment, although I have to oppose it, because I
    admire his long-established commitment to Ukraine and
    especially to Crimea. However, as we are all aware, the
    provision in the ranking member's bill that that amendment
    would strike allows the President of the United States to lift
    the existing sanctions related to Crimea if there is a
    resolution of the region's status that--and here is the key
    concept in the underlying bill--that a democratically-elected
    Government of Ukraine judges to be satisfactory and that has
    been reached through an internationally supervised process. In
    other words, the people of Ukraine would make that decision.
        My concern is that to strike that language to prevent a
    situation from arising in which the Ukrainian Government
    concludes an agreement that it believes is good for the nation,
    but the U.S. nevertheless says, that is not good enough for us,
    we would have in effect be claiming to be more Ukrainian than
    the Ukrainians. This amendment would potentially bind the U.S.
    to a position that the Ukrainian Government itself might have
    left behind.
        As the gentleman is aware, the central goal of U.S. policy
    toward Ukraine is to allow a sovereign and democratic Ukraine
    to choose its own destiny, just like the United States. So I
    believe that should continue to be our goal. I think the
    underlying bill states it very effectively. So we should be
    prepared to support Ukrainian's decisions of what is best for
    Ukrainians.
        Therefore, I must oppose the amendment. I just don't see
    the sense of offering it in these circumstances, given how
    strong the underlying bill already is. But with that----
        Mr. Connolly. Would the chairman yield?
        Chairman Royce. You will have your own time. I have to go
    to the floor right now----
        Mr. Connolly. The chairman has preemptively attacked an
    amendment.
        Chairman Royce. And if you withdraw the amendment, I will
    withdraw my preemptive attack.
        Mr. Connolly. But I kind of wanted to give my colleagues an
    opportunity for the counterargument.
        Chairman Royce. I would love to have that argument, but I
    cannot have it today, I can't have it at this moment. But I
    will yield you 5 minutes.
        Mr. Connolly. I will move up. I have an amendment at the
    desk. I am sorry. Are you recognizing me to speak?
        Chairman Royce. I am recognizing you to speak. I was
    recognizing you to speak on the underlying measure. But
    inasmuch as I discussed your amendment, feel free to segue into
    that amendment.
        Mr. Connolly. Thank you so much.
        First of all, I want to thank Mr. Engel for bringing this
    resolution up, and I want to thank the chairman for bringing
    the resolution up.
        The chairman has given a point of view. And I listened
    carefully to my friend Mr. Weber about Georgia and the Ukraine.
    I have consistently insisted, since the illegal invasion and
    annexation of the Crimea, that we must be clear as a bell, no
    ambiguity, no other conditionality.
        My friend Mr. Chabot and I introduced a bill this committee
    supported, the Crimea Annexation Non-Recognition Act. This
    isn't a Democratic or Republican issue.
        Here is my concern, and I hope it is yours. That language
    looks innocent. My amendment would delete that language and
    leave it with silence about what the Ukrainian Government
    decides to do. If the Ukrainian Government decides tomorrow,
    ``You know what, we don't need the Crimea, we are going to give
    it up,'' obviously, a President is going to come to Congress
    saying, ``Well, that is their decision,'' and we would have to
    consider it. But why offer it on a plate by the U.S. Congress?
        I have worked with my friend Mike Turner, Republican from
    Ohio. He heads up the NATO Parliamentary Assembly. I head up
    the U.S. delegation. We have worked together to make sure there
    is no dilution of language on this subject in NATO, and there
    have been attempts.
        This is, without intention, I fear, to be construed as,
    ``Well, if you don't get out of Crimea, how about you negotiate
    something, and we will call it a day?'' We don't want to do
    that.
        Now, contrary to what my friends have heard from Mr.
    Grayson, there is terrible human rights abuse going on by the
    Russians in Crimea today against Tartars, against political
    dissenters, against anybody with a different political point of
    view. As Mr. Weber indicated, they dominate media, and the
    propaganda and the harassment are quite considerable. And life
    for the indigenous Crimean population is very difficult. People
    who have family members there report that.
        I am delighted to have the support of the author of this
    resolution, Mr. Engel, for this amendment. And I know a number
    of my colleagues also heard from the Ukrainian Congress in
    support of this amendment as well.
        This isn't a Democrat or Republican issue. This isn't
    something designed in any way to embarrass the leadership of
    this committee. This is a sincerely felt policy position so
    that we speak with one voice and as clearly as we can, just as
    we just did in Georgia, on the Ukraine.
        I was in the Ukraine recently. They need our support. They
    need to know in Kiev that we are unwavering so that they do
    what they have to do. If they ever change their minds, they are
    always free to come back. We don't need a provision to invite
    it. What we need is a clear, unequivocal statement that the
    settlement about the Crimea is a Ukrainian issue, not an issue
    for Russia and the rest of the world.
        With that, I yield back.
        Mr. Smith [presiding]. The Chair recognizes Mr.
    Rohrabacher.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Well, let me just ask my colleague from
    Virginia, Mr. Connolly, do you sense that we actually agree on
    self-determination, or do we not? Meaning, if, indeed, there
    were no Russian troops involved and no military action taking
    place, that the people, as we heard from Mr. Grayson, the
    people do have a fundamental right, even if they are a part of
    another country, they are on a periphery of a country and want
    to be independent or part of another nation, that they have a
    right by majority to do so. Is that correct? And it is the
    occupation, it is the introduction of Russian troops at
    Abkhazia.
        Mr. Connolly. Yeah, that is like, other than the
    unpleasantness, how did you like the play at Ford's Theatre?
        Mr. Rohrabacher. I yield time to respond.
        Mr. Connolly. I thank my friend.
        No, we don't agree, because you are assuming, even if
    Russian troops got out--a big if--which Mr. Grayson apologizes
    for that, he dismisses that, I don't know how any reasonable
    person can say there can be a free and fair election with
    Russian troops over all the territory.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. We did.
        Mr. Connolly. But with respect to your question.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Yes.
        Mr. Connolly. It is for Ukraine to make that decision.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Yes.
        Mr. Connolly. Otherwise, I would say to my friend, then you
    would have to say those parts of Spain that have an inclination
    to secede, we ought to have an international election and let
    them do it, irrespective of the wishes of the Spanish
    Government in Madrid. That is interference in another sovereign
    state's affairs. It is up to the Ukraine, I would say to my
    friend from California, to decide on the disposition of its own
    territory, not up to us and not up to Russia.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Yeah. Then you would suggest that we
    should be part of the British Empire. Is that correct? After
    all, we did forcefully declare our independence, and I guess
    you do, then, renounce when in the course of human events that
    it comes time to separate the bonds between, that doesn't--go
    right ahead. I yield.
        Mr. Connolly. All right. No, the proper analogy actually is
    the American Civil War, Mr. Rohrabacher. It was not up to the
    United Kingdom and France to recognize Confederate
    independence. It was up to the United States of America to
    decide on that, and we did.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Reclaiming my time. Let me just note that
    had the South, during the Civil War, permitted women and
    permitted slaves and not had slavery, and it was not a slave
    situation, where if they had been permitted to vote, I doubt if
    they would have voted for secession, but had they done so and
    the South didn't have slavery, well, then, that would have been
    fine for them to secede, if we do believe in the Declaration of
    Independence.
        Did you oppose our efforts in Kosovo, Mr. Connolly?
        Mr. Connolly. I opposed secession, certainly, in the United
    States history.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. You are being consistent.
        Let me note, I don't believe there is that big a difference
    between most of the members here and some of these issues that
    we are raising, because whether or not what the Russian action
    was at this point, at this point, whether or not somebody else
    committed, initiated a violence that ended up with the current
    situation, I think that what unites Americans is that we do
    believe that people have a right, through the ballot box, to
    determine their destiny. And you would suggest that they have
    to be part of a bigger entity, and that bigger entity has to
    agree to it. I think that is where we disagree.
        But I think the right of people to determine through the
    ballot box rather than bullet box is the way we should be
    supporting and ending some of these conflicts. And I certainly
    agree with that in the Ukraine, and I certainly agree with that
    in Georgia, and all of these different things that we are
    talking about.
        So I do not interpret my own position as being pro-Russian
    in some of these things. I really believe that local people
    have a right. I supported Kosovars. I supported the Scots. Even
    if they didn't get their vote, I would have appreciated it. And
    the Catalonians, if they want to be free from the rest of
    Spain. People have a right to their self-determination. I think
    that is what our Declaration of Independence was all about. And
    just a thought. I thought I would throw that in the air.
        Thank you very much, Mr. Connolly, for that exchange.
        Mr. Smith. Mr. Sherman.
        Mr. Sherman. I think both gentlemen are right. We have been
    on the side of self-determination. We have been on the side of
    territorial integrity. We were born in a war of secession. We
    were baptized in a great civil war against secession. We tore
    asunder the British Empire in 1776 and prevented our Nation
    from being torn asunder fourscore and 7 years later.
        I don't agree with Mr. Rohrabacher that just any group for
    any reason can say, ``Give us a vote and we get our
    independence.'' That is only true if David Cameron is your
    Prime Minister.
        The fact is, the San Fernando Valley would make an
    excellent country. I know it would have outstanding leadership.
    And, yet, we weren't even given a free vote to secede from the
    City of Los Angeles, let alone from the United States.
        The fact is, these questions are answered in our
    Declaration of Independence, which says you shouldn't create
    your own country just because, well, that is how you feel that
    day or you think you would do a little better, only when you
    can lay out to the world truly extraordinary oppression from
    the State that is governing you and truly extraordinary reasons
    for your independence.
        But getting back to the bill, I think this is a very strong
    pro-Ukrainian bill. I do not think that we need an additional
    amendment to be more pro-Ukraine. I think the gentleman from
    Virginia is right, though, in saying that this is a decision to
    be made in Kiev by Ukrainians. And if Ukraine, as the bill
    states, if Ukraine negotiates a settlement with Russia for
    whatever level of autonomy or whatever relationship Crimea will
    have to Russia or the Ukraine, that that is something that we
    ought to be prepared to accept.
        Now, the gentleman from Virginia points out that we
    shouldn't invite that, but the fact is, we should invite the
    Ukraine to do whatever it considers best for the people of the
    Ukraine and the Crimea.
        Mr. Connolly. Would my friend yield?
        Mr. Sherman. And to tie the President's hands and say that
    we have to continue these sanctions, even if a democratically-
    elected Ukrainian Government in Kiev is asking us to remove the
    sanctions, I think makes the bill more unwieldy, more
    permanent, more locked in, more written in stone than it needs
    to be.
        I will make one point, then I will yield to the gentleman
    from Virginia, and that is he is correct in pointing out that
    human rights in the Crimea are not being respected. However,
    there were times in Ukrainian history where they did not have a
    democratic government, where there were levels of oppression
    for all of the people of Ukraine, including those of the
    Crimea, and particular concerns of the Russian-speaking
    majority in the Crimea. So I don't think we can say that Kiev
    always provides the highest level of human rights while Moscow
    always imposes oppression.
        But the Crimea was made part of the Ukraine, and we should
    be following the Ukraine in whether to remove sanctions.
        I yield to the gentleman from Virginia.
        Mr. Connolly. I thank my friend. I find it interesting that
    we are concerned about ``tying the hands of the President.''
    There are so many other examples where we have no compunction
    about doing that, including my friend from California.
        Mr. Sherman. You are absolutely correct.
        Mr. Connolly. But I will simply point out, there is nothing
    in my amendment, which has yet to be introduced, that ties
    anybody's hands. It simply removes this provision and is silent
    about it. It is a false argument to say we tie the President's
    hands. We most certainly do not. I am not adding language. We
    are subtracting language to be clear.
        Secondly, the language here----
        Mr. Sherman. Reclaiming my time. Reclaiming my time.
        Mr. Connolly. Thanks for the courtesy.
        Mr. Sherman. Every time a member of this committee tries to
    strike language that provides for a Presidential waiver, the
    response is that we are tying the President's hands. So the
    fact that you are striking language does not mean that you are
    not making the bill more binding, shifting, and depriving the
    President of an ability to act quickly. Sometimes we should and
    sometimes we should not provide such waivers.
        And I will yield to you whatever remaining time I have. My
    time has expired.
        Mr. Smith. The time of the gentleman has expired.
        The Chair recognizes Chairman Chabot.
        Mr. Chabot. Mr. Chairman, if I could ask your advice at
    this point in time. Mr. Connolly has not yet actually
    introduced the amendment. So for other members who may want to
    speak, and I do want to speak on this, I would be happy to wait
    until the amendment is introduced, or otherwise, we can all
    take two bites of the apple.
        Mr. Smith. Once the amendment has been introduced,
    obviously, we could have a debate on that.
        Mr. Chabot. Can I ask, are there any other members that
    wish to speak prior to the amendment being offered? Because I
    will wait.
        Mr. Smith. On the underlying bill, or whatever you want to
    speak on.
        Mr. Chabot. This was sort of like a parliamentary inquiry.
    So you have answered my parliamentary inquiry. Thank you.
        Mr. Smith. Mr. Lowenthal.
        Mr. Lowenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to claim
    time, and I would like to yield it to my colleague from
    Virginia.
        Mr. Connolly. I thank the gentleman from California.
        I will point out to my colleagues, unlike what Mr. Sherman
    characterized, let's read the language here. This language
    doesn't say, ``Well, only if Ukraine initiates something and
    chooses a process, well, then, of course, we would respect
    it.'' It actually says the status of the Crimea has been
    resolved through an internationally supervised process to the
    satisfaction of the Ukrainian Government. That can be construed
    as an imposed settlement. So somebody else decides, whether
    Ukraine likes it or not, that this is good for them, this is
    the best we can get, and they have to accept it.
        The other point I would make, which really troubles me
    about Mr. Sherman's argument, I was just in the Ukraine. They
    have a democratic government. They had a revolution to get it.
    They overthrew the previous government because it was corrupt,
    it was a kleptocracy. They are struggling. They need our
    support.
        I went with my friend Peter Roskam, a Republican, the head
    of the House Democracy Project, to go to the Ukraine to show
    support for what they are trying to do. This would dishearten
    them, I can assure you. This is not a signal of support. This
    is a retreat. It may not be intended as such, but it will be
    construed as such. We can be silent by eliminating this and not
    make the point.
        I am glad to have Republican support for the amendment yet
    to be introduced. I am disheartened that one of my fellow
    Democrats feels otherwise. But I really do believe that the
    purpose here is to speak with one clear voice: You must
    withdraw from your illegal annexation and occupation of the
    Crimea.
        And if the President ever wants, whatever President, to
    come to Congress with a different idea, there is nothing in
    here that precludes that, and there is nothing in here to
    preclude our consideration of it. We are silent about it. That
    is all I am doing, so that we were speaking clearly on this
    policy.
        If Mr. Sherman wants me to yield, I do--with Mr.
    Lowenthal's permission.
        Mr. Sherman. Just one point. Yes, the Ukrainian Government
    is democratic today. I was just making the point that
    sovereignty does not depend upon democracy. That is to say,
    Crimea was part of the Ukraine when they had a bad government.
    Crimea was part of the Ukraine when the Ukraine was part of the
    Soviet Union. Crimea is part of the Ukraine today. And I yield
    back to the gentleman.
        Mr. Connolly. I thank my friend. And I yield back to Mr.
    Lowenthal.
        Mr. Smith. Do you yield back?
        Mr. Lowenthal. And I yield back.
        Mr. Smith. Okay.
        Any other members like to be heard on the underlying bill?
        Having heard no further request to speak on the bill, are
    there any amendments to the bill?
        Mr. Connolly. Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the
    desk.
        Mr. Smith. The clerk will report the bill.
        Ms. Marter. Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a
    substitute to H.R. 5094 offered by Mr. Connolly of Virginia.
    Page 5, line 15, strike ``that'' and all that follows through
    ``Ukraine's'' on line 16 and insert ``that Ukraine's.'' Page 5,
    line 17, strike ``; or'' and insert a period. Page 5, strike
    lines 18 through 21.
        [The information referred to follows:]

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Smith. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Virginia
    for 5 minutes to speak on his amendment.
        Mr. Connolly. I thank my friend.
        I think I have made it as clear as a bell what we are
    trying to do here. It is simple, it is uncomplicated, and it is
    designed to show solidarity with our democratic friends
    struggling in the Ukraine.
        The Ukraine is losing soldiers every single day. So far,
    6,000 casualties--6,000 casualties--to Russian aggression. We
    must do everything in our power to reverse what they are doing
    and to make it clear that is not how disputes are settled in
    modern day Europe.
        And with that, I yield to my good friend, Mr. Chabot from
    Ohio.
        Mr. Chabot. I thank the gentleman for yielding.
        It is rare that I disagree with my chairman on this
    committee. I have been working with Mr. Connolly on issues
    related to Crimea for some time now. I thank him for his
    leadership on this.
        Our position with respect to Russia invading Ukraine and
    Crimea should be crystal clear, the world's position should be
    crystal clear, and that is that the Russians should get the
    hell out of Crimea, as simple as that. I think this language
    just muddies up our position and the waters, and it ought to be
    as clear as that, Russian has to get out.
        To allow additional pressure, basically, to be put on the
    Ukrainian Government, which I think this ultimately would do--
    Russia is a bully, we know that. They have threatened to cut
    off energy. They have invaded not just Crimea, but the eastern
    border of Ukraine, and they are continuing in that. It is an
    off-and-on, literally, military battle going on. The
    Ukrainians, unfortunately, are outgunned by the Russians over
    and over again. And I think we have been remiss, this
    administration's policies have been remiss in providing
    additional necessary arms to allow the Ukrainians to defend
    themselves.
        But we ought to be, as I say, crystal clear on this, and we
    ought not allow that aggressive behavior by the Russians to be
    rewarded. To accept Russian aggression in Crimea and with
    respect to Ukraine is just going to invite additional Russian
    aggression, whether it is in Lithuania, whether it is in
    Latvia, whether it is in Estonia, whether it is in Poland.
        I think this language sends the wrong message altogether,
    and it does invite some international supervised process,
    whatever that means, to come in and just muddy the whole
    situation up, and it ultimately gives the Ukrainians a
    decision, which is kind of a take-it-or-leave-it thing. We
    ought not to go down that road. That is the wrong way to go. We
    ought to stay with our position, which is, Russia, get out of
    Crimea.
        And I thank the gentleman for his leadership on this issue.
    And I yield back to Mr. Connolly.
        Mr. Smith. You still have some time remaining.
        Mr. Connolly. I would be glad to yield to anyone or yield
    back, Mr. Chairman. I know we are pressed for time.
        Mr. Smith. The gentleman yields back.
        I recognize myself in favor of the amendment.
        Let me just say to my colleagues, I remember standing with
    Ronald Reagan in my first term, 35 years ago, when he
    proclaimed Captive Nations Week and continued a tradition that
    began in the late 1940s, that was through Democrat and
    Republican administrations, of not recognizing Latvia,
    Lithuania, and Estonia, because they were captive nations.
        Our maps did not recognize that they had been annexed,
    conquered by the Soviet Union. And we stood firm. Half a
    century later, those countries are free and prospering and
    great friends and allies in the European Union, as well as with
    the United States and NATO.
        Let me just say that I think this language, well-meaning as
    it is, to me looks like an engraved invitation to do something
    other than recognize Ukraine's sovereignty over the Crimea. You
    know, when we say, ``to the satisfaction of a democratically-
    elected government of Ukraine,'' Ukraine is under tremendous
    pressure, both financially and militarily, with such occupiers
    and such acts aggression happening every single day, now
    outside of Crimea, in other parts of Ukraine. And they would be
    at a very disadvantaged position to resist international
    pressure to accept a solution that is not truly in their best
    interest.
        So I support the Connolly amendment, and I do yield back my
    time.
        I would like to go to the Democrat side next. I can't see
    it.
        Mr. Boyle, sorry.
        Mr. Boyle. I know I am way down here. But thank you, Mr.
    Chairman.
        I just want to speak briefly to strongly support the
    Connolly amendment. You know, since the end of World War II,
    the first time we have seen the boundaries actually jeopardized
    in Europe, one nation-state invading another, was Putin's
    invasion of Crimea.
        We need to be doing far more to support Ukraine. We cannot
    support some process by which essentially it would be agreed
    that Russian aggression is being rewarded. That would be a
    mistake for Ukraine, it would be a mistake for the Baltics, and
    it would be a mistake for the rest of Europe.
        Putin's actions in Crimea and actions that continue today
    in the eastern part of Ukraine, where people are suffering,
    where relatives of constituents of mine in Philadelphia and
    suburban Philadelphia continue to suffer, to recognize and
    actually award that sort of aggression would be a mistake with
    terrible consequences. And if we learned nothing from history,
    that is something that we should have learned and relearned by
    now.
        So I strongly support the Connolly amendment, and I will
    take this opportunity, again, to urge our own administration to
    be doing more to assist Ukraine in their time of need.
        I yield back.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you, Mr. Boyle.
        I would like to yield 5 minutes to Mr. Rohrabacher, the
    gentleman from California.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you very much. And I also appreciate
    the fact that the chair recognized captive nations speeches by
    the President, because I am the one who wrote them. It seems
    that we are having time for a little philosophical part of the
    discussion. Let me share this, especially with Mr. Connolly.
        When I was working on this captive nation speech for
    President Reagan, I remember what almost scuttled the first
    captive nation speech that I worked on, and that was I wanted
    to be fair about it, and I wanted to declare that the Russian
    people themselves were the first captive nation, that they
    themselves had been oppressed by communism, and it was
    communism that was the enemy, not Russian people.
        And you know that the Baltic groups, especially, but the
    other people who were now in those occupied countries at the
    time were so adamant that we not include anything about the
    damn Russians. They hated the Russians. They did not
    differentiate between the Soviet Union and the Russian people.
    And they almost, with their hatred toward the Russian people,
    almost scuttled the President of the United States' solid
    statement on how we were opposed to the Russians occupying all
    of these countries in Eastern Europe.
        That is the same mentality that is going on today. There is
    such a hatred. It is based on basically an historic hatred for
    the fact that Stalin and Russian people under Communist control
    murdered millions of people throughout Europe and these
    countries. They can't get rid of that hatred and that
    resentment toward that country which they see has caused that,
    when it was really communism, it was the evil of communism.
        It is like right now, we shouldn't hate the people of Iran.
    You and I, Mr. Connolly, agree totally on Iranian policy. We
    don't hate the people of Iran. We don't like the mullahs and
    that vicious dictatorship of the mullahs that is pro-terrorist.
        Well, I believe that a lot of what we are talking about
    dealing with whether it is Ukrainian policy or whether it is--
    wherever that is, it is all based on a hatred of Russia and an
    unwillingness, thus, to see that Saakashvili was the one who
    caused the crisis in Georgia. He is the one who broke a long-
    term truce, sent troops in, and murdered, I might add, truce
    observers that were unarmed, Russian truce observers.
        So we don't want to recognize that as a factor. For the
    Russians, that was a major factor. There would not have been
    any Russian troops going into that area, had Saakashvili not
    done that.
        And I will tell you, when it comes to Georgia, that is one
    thing. We have Ukraine. And, Mr. Connolly, I respect you, you
    are my friend, but I also respect your opinions. But the fact
    is, you just mentioned, yeah, we overthrew that former
    government that was a kleptocracy. That was a conspiracy from
    our EU members and in collusion with the United States to
    overthrow an elected government.
        Chris Smith will tell you, he was there observing the
    election of Yanukovych. Yanukovych was a legally-elected
    President who was overthrown, and if they would have waited
    until the next election, there would have been none of this
    problem. The Russians would not have gone in if he would have
    lost the election. But instead, we overthrew, we participated
    in collusion with the overthrow of an elected government that
    then threatened the status quo to the detriment of Russia.
        We have to expect Russia to watch out for its own
    interests. What would we do if that same thing happened in
    Mexico? We would be involved.
        Well, I suggest that we need to make sure that we try to,
    number one, live at peace with Russia, recognizing that it is
    no longer the Soviet Union, but it is a country that is large
    and has its interests, the same way we do and other countries
    that are allied with us do. And we cannot just have a double
    standard, saying we can overthrow that government in Ukraine
    and the Russians have to accept it.
        And we have, in terms of self-determination, I really
    appreciate Mr. Sherman's remarks about the Declaration of
    Independence. I will think about what he just said. But we may
    have a difference in philosophy, not with Brad, but here in
    this committee, as to whether or not the right of self-
    determination is something that should be a consideration of
    U.S. policy.
        So with that said----
        Mr. Sherman. If the gentleman will yield? I fully agree
    with----
        Mr. Smith. The gentleman is out of time.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. My time is up. Thank you very much. I
    appreciate it.
        Mr. Smith. The Chair recognizes Mr. Sherman.
        Mr. Sherman. I would just say that I may not accept Mr.
    Rohrabacher's views anywhere else in the world, but an
    independent San Fernando Valley is something I am looking
    forward to.
        Mr. Rohrabacher. I supported that.
        Mr. Smith. Do you yield back?
        Do any other members seek recognition on the Connolly
    amendment?
        Mr. Connolly. Mr. Chairman, might I just note for the
    record, because he is necessarily on the floor, the author of
    the resolution has endorsed this amendment, for the record.
        Mr. Ribble. Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Smith. The Chair recognizes Mr. Ribble.
        Mr. Ribble. Mr. Chairman, thank you for a moment to speak
    on this issue, and I will be brief.
        There are about 55 miles at the narrowest point that
    separates the United States in the State of Alaska from the
    Russian border. Under this self-determination argument that has
    been made here, if a certain percentage of Alaskans decided
    they want to be part of Russia, would we ever, under any
    circumstances--ever, under any circumstances--accept a Russian
    invasion of Alaska? We would not.
        I support this amendment, and I encourage its adoption.
        I yield back.
        Mr. Smith. Thank you, Mr. Ribble.
        Hearing no further requests for time, the question occurs
    on the amendment offered by Mr. Connolly.
        All those in favor, say aye.
        Opposed, no.
        In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it, and the
    amendment is agreed to.
        Hearing no further requests for amendments, the Chair now
    moves that the committee agree to H.R. 5094, as amended.
        All those in favor, say aye.
        All those opposed say, no.
        In the opinion of the Chair, the ayes have it, and H.R.
    5094, as amended, is agreed to.
        Without objection, the amended bill is ordered favorably
    reported as a single amendment in the nature of a substitute.
    Staff is directed to make any technical and conforming changes,
    and the chairman is authorized to seek House consideration
    under suspension of the rules.
        That concludes our business for today. I want to thank
    members on both sides of the aisle for their input.
        The committee is adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 10:37 a.m., the committee was adjourned.]

                                A P P E N D I X

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             Material Submitted for the Record

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      Statement submitted for the record by the Honorable Christopher H.
        Smith, a Representative in Congress from the State of New Jersey

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