[House Hearing, 114 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
HELPING STUDENTS SUCCEED BY
STRENGTHENING THE
CARL D. PERKINS CAREER AND
TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION
AND THE WORKFORCE
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, MAY 17, 2016
__________
Serial No. 114-48
__________
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COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE
JOHN KLINE, Minnesota, Chairman
Joe Wilson, South Carolina Robert C. ``Bobby'' Scott,
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina Virginia
Duncan Hunter, California Ranking Member
David P. Roe, Tennessee Ruben Hinojosa, Texas
Glenn Thompson, Pennsylvania Susan A. Davis, California
Tim Walberg, Michigan Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona
Matt Salmon, Arizona Joe Courtney, Connecticut
Brett Guthrie, Kentucky Marcia L. Fudge, Ohio
Todd Rokita, Indiana Jared Polis, Colorado
Lou Barletta, Pennsylvania Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan,
Joseph J. Heck, Nevada Northern Mariana Islands
Luke Messer, Indiana Frederica S. Wilson, Florida
Bradley Byrne, Alabama Suzanne Bonamici, Oregon
David Brat, Virginia Mark Pocan, Wisconsin
Buddy Carter, Georgia Mark Takano, California
Michael D. Bishop, Michigan Hakeem S. Jeffries, New York
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin Katherine M. Clark, Massachusetts
Steve Russell, Oklahoma Alma S. Adams, North Carolina
Carlos Curbelo, Florida Mark DeSaulnier, California
Elise Stefanik, New York
Rick Allen, Georgia
Juliane Sullivan, Staff Director
Denise Forte, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on May 17, 2016..................................... 1
Statement of Members:
Kline, Hon. John, Chairman, Committee on Education and the
Workforce.................................................. 1
Prepared statement of.................................... 3
Scott, Hon. Robert C. ``Bobby'', Ranking Member, Committee on
Education and the Workforce................................ 4
Prepared statement of.................................... 5
Statement of Witnesses:
Kaine, Hon. Tim, a Representative in Congress from the State
of Virginia................................................ 8
Prepared statement of.................................... 11
Tse, Mr. Paul, Project Manager, Shapiro and Duncan, Inc...... 14
Prepared statement of.................................... 17
Bates, Mr. Jason, Manager, Toyota-Bodine Aluminum, Inc....... 21
Prepared statement of.................................... 23
Sullivan, Dr. Monty, President, Louisiana Community and
Technical College System................................... 31
Prepared statement of.................................... 33
Additional Submissions:
Fudge, Hon. Marcia L., a Representative in Congress from the
State of Ohio:
Letter dated May 3, 2016, from Partnership for 21st
Century Learning P21................................... 72
Letter dated May 16, 2016, from the National Education
Association (NEA)...................................... 67
Thompson, Hon. Glenn, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Pennsylvania:
Letter dated May 16, 2016, from Opportunity America...... 69
Recommendations Perkins Career and Technical Education
Act.................................................... 70
Prepared statement of.................................... 75
Chairman Kline on behalf of Congressman Will Hurd, questions
submitted for the record to:
Mr. Bates................................................ 78
Dr. Sullivan............................................. 84
Bishop, Hon. Michael D., a Representative in Congress from
the state of Michigan, questions submitted to Dr. Sullivan. 84
Stefanik, Hon. Elise, a Representative in Congress from the
state of New York, questions submitted to:
Mr. Bates................................................ 78
Mr. Tse.................................................. 89
Response to questions submitted:
Mr. Bates................................................ 81
Dr. Sullivan............................................. 86
Mr. Tse.................................................. 91
HELPING STUDENTS SUCCEED BY
STRENGTHENING THE CARL D. PERKINS
CAREER AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION ACT
----------
Tuesday, May 17, 2016
House of Representatives
Committee on Education and the Workforce
Washington, D.C.
----------
The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:00 a.m., in Room
2175, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. John Kline [chairman
of the committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Kline, Wilson, Foxx, Roe, Walberg,
Salmon, Guthrie, Rokita, Heck, Messer, Byrne, Brat, Carter,
Bishop, Grothman, Curbelo, Stefanik, Allen, Scott, Davis,
Courtney, Fudge, Polis, Bonamici, Pocan, Takano, Clark, Adams,
and DeSaulnier.
Also Present: Representative Langevin.
Staff Present: Janelle Belland, Coalitions and Members
Services Coordinator; Tyler Hernandez, Deputy Communications
Director; Amy Raaf Jones, Director of Education and Human
Resources Policy; Nancy Locke, Chief Clerk; Dominique McKay,
Deputy Press Secretary; Krisann Pearce, General Counsel; Clint
Raine, TFA Fellow; James Redstone, Professional Staff Member;
Alex Ricci, Legislative Assistant; Alissa Strawcutter, Deputy
Clerk; Brad Thomas, Senior Education Policy Advisor; Tylease
Alli, Minority Clerk/Intern and Fellow Coordinator; Jacque
Chevalier, Minority Senior Education Policy Advisor; Mishawn
Freeman, Minority Staff Assistant; Denise Forte, Minority Staff
Director; Brian Kennedy, Minority General Counsel; Rayna Reid,
Minority Education Policy Counsel; Phillip Tizzani, Eduction
Detailee; and Katherine Valle, Minority Education Policy
Advisor.
Chairman Kline. A quorum being present, the Committee on
Education and the Workforce will come to order.
Good morning. I would like to extend a warm welcome to our
witnesses. We appreciate you joining us today, all of you, to
discuss ways to strengthen career and technical education.
It is an important conversation to have because of the
critical role career and technical education programs play in a
student's education, and more importantly, in their future.
Through the Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education
Act, the Federal Government supports State and local programs
designed to prepare high school and community college students
for technical careers. These programs offer students the
knowledge and training they need to compete in the workforce
and hold jobs in a wide range of fields. In other words, they
offer opportunities for young men and women to pursue a
lifetime of success.
This is an important conversation to have now because an
anemic economy has made good paying jobs hard to come by. In
fact, today, millions of Americans are struggling to find
employment and millions of others who need full-time jobs can
only find part-time work. For young people entering this kind
of job market, having the right skills and experience is
essential.
Career and technical education programs can provide these
critical tools, and we have to ensure Federal support for these
programs is delivered in the most efficient and effective
manner possible. As we have learned in recent years, through
hearings and other activities, there are certainly
opportunities to improve the law.
This is an important area where Republicans and Democrats
should work together to deliver reforms that will strengthen
support for all Americans, but particularly young Americans.
That collaboration is exactly what happened in 2014 with
the bipartisan Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act. We
worked together to help put Americans back to work by improving
an outdated and insufficient job training program.
Last year, a similar commitment to finding common ground
guided our efforts to improve K-12 education. The result was
the Every Student Succeeds Act, a law that empowers parents,
teachers, and State and local leaders to deliver the quality
education every child deserves.
It's time we applied the same approach to strengthening
career and technical education, but more importantly, we need
to apply many of the same principles reflected in our efforts
to improve K-12 education and workforce development. What does
that mean in practical terms?
It means empowering State and local leaders to innovate and
respond to the unique economic and education needs in their
communities. They know better than anyone, certainly better
than any of us in Washington, what it takes to meet the needs
of their students, workers, and employers. It means equipping
students with the skills they need for today's in demand jobs,
not the skills that were needed in yesterday's workforce.
We have to make sure Federal resources are aligned with the
needs of the local workforce, the demands of new and emerging
businesses. It also means strengthening transparency and
accountability, providing parents, students, business leaders,
community stakeholders, and taxpayers the information they need
to hold their programs accountable.
It isn't good enough for students to simply complete a
program. Once they have done so, they should be ready to
further their education or pursue a good paying job.
Finally, it means ensuring a limited Federal role.
Restricting the Federal Government's ability to intervene in
matters that should be left up to the States will enable State
and local leaders to spend less time meeting the demands of
Washington and more time meeting the needs of people and their
local communities.
These are the kinds of reforms that we know work, the kinds
of reforms that will help students succeed in the classroom and
in the future. For many individuals entering the workforce can
be scary enough on its own, for the young men and women
entering today's workforce, a slew of technological advantages,
global changes, and economic challenges make finding a good job
even more daunting.
That is why it is so important for us to continue working
together to ensure students have what they need to achieve
success. Strengthening career and technical education should be
the next step in that important effort.
I look forward to hearing from our witnesses as we continue
our work to strengthen the Perkins Act, and with that, I
recognize Ranking Member Bobby Scott for his opening remarks.
[The information follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. John Kline, Chairman
Committee on Education and the Workforce
Through the Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education Act, the
federal government supports state and local programs designed to
prepare high school and community college students for technical
careers. These programs offer students the knowledge and training they
need to compete in the workforce and hold jobs in a wide range of
fields. In other words, they offer opportunities for young men and
women to pursue a lifetime of success.
This is an important conversation to have now because an anemic
economy has made good-paying jobs hard to come by. In fact, today,
millions of Americans are struggling to find employment, and millions
of others who need full-time jobs can only find part-time work. For
young people entering this kind of job market, having the right skills
and experience is essential.
Career and technical education programs can provide these critical
tools, and we have to ensure federal support for these programs is
delivered in the most efficient and effective manner possible. As we
have learned in recent years--through hearings and other activities--
there are certainly opportunities to improve the law. This is an
important area where Republicans and Democrats should work together to
deliver reforms that will strengthen support for all Americans, but
particularly young Americans.
That collaboration is exactly what happened in 2014 with the
bipartisan Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act. We worked together
to help put Americans back to work by improving an outdated and
inefficient job training system. Last year, a similar commitment to
finding common ground guided our efforts to improve K-12 education. The
result was the Every Student Succeeds Act, a law that empowers parents,
teachers, and state and local leaders to deliver the quality education
every child deserves.
It's time we applied the same approach to strengthening career and
technical education. But more importantly, we need to apply many of the
same principles reflected in our efforts to improve K-12 education and
workforce development. What does that mean in practical terms?
It means empowering state and local leaders to innovate and respond
to the unique economic and education needs in their communities. They
know better than anyone--certainly better than any of us in
Washington--what it takes to meet the needs of their students, workers,
and employers.
It means equipping students with the skills they need for today's
in-demand jobs--not the skills that were needed in yesterday's
workforce. We have to make sure federal resources are aligned with the
needs of the local workforce and the demands of new and emerging
businesses.
It also means strengthening transparency and accountability,
providing parents, students, business leaders, community stakeholders,
and taxpayers the information they need to hold their programs
accountable. It isn't good enough for students to simply complete a
program; once they've done so, they should be ready to further their
education or pursue a good-paying job.
Finally, it means ensuring a limited federal role. Restricting the
federal government's ability to intervene in matters that should be
left up to the states will enable state and local leaders to spend less
time meeting the demands of Washington and more time meeting the needs
of people in their local communities.
These are the kinds of reforms that we know work; the kinds of
reforms that will help students succeed in the classroom and in the
future. For many individuals, entering the workforce can be scary
enough on its own. For the young men and women entering today's
workforce, a slew of technological advances, global changes, and
economic challenges make finding a good job even more daunting.
That's why it's so important for us to continue working together to
ensure students have what they need to achieve success. Strengthening
career and technical education should be the next step in that
important effort.
______
Mr. Scott. Good morning, and thank you, Chairman Kline. We
are here today to discuss the critical role of career and
technical education, or CTE, in preparing our Nation's students
for success in the 21st century workforce.
The Federal investment in CTE is authorized under the Carl
D. Perkins Career and Technical Education Improvement Act of
2006, and I am hopeful that today's hearing will serve as a
foundation for a bipartisan comprehensive reauthorization of
this important law.
The research is clear. The United States is suffering from
a skills gap due to our failure to produce enough skilled
workers to meet future economic needs. According to the
Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce, by
2020, 65 percent of all jobs in the United States will require
some sort of postsecondary education or training. Yet, at its
current production rate, the United States will fall
approximately 5 million workers short of this by 2020.
Investing in high quality CTE and increasing access to
these programs through the reauthorization of the Perkins CTE
must be prioritized as a partial solution to bridge this gap.
CTE provides students with knowledge and skills needed to
be both career and college ready. This is not the vocational
education of the past. Today's CTE fosters educational
environments and engages students with an integrated curriculum
of core academic content and real world work-based relevance.
I am proud to say that my home State of Virginia is a
leader in CTE with more than half a million 6th through 12th
graders participating in CTE across the Commonwealth. Virginia
has expanded access to CTE programs that equip secondary school
students with recognized postsecondary credentials through
innovative programs such as dual enrollment and registered
apprenticeships.
As we move forward with reauthorization, we must prioritize
robust investment in high quality CTE programs in each and
every State in order to maintain our Nation's status as a
leader in the global economy.
The globalization of the marketplace has altered the way
the U.S. and other countries compete for business. We certainly
cannot compete with other countries when it comes to lowest
wages, when many around the world may work for a couple of
dollars or even pennies a day. Nor can we compete in terms of
location with today's technology, video conferencing,
Smartphones and tablets, any worker that can work across the
hall from their co-workers can work across the globe from their
co-workers.
The main reason the United States remains strong and
continues to attract businesses is because we have a well
educated and well trained workforce. Our focus on equitable
access and high standards for all students, a system that
focuses on college and career ready results, is an economic
asset.
While many of today's CTE programs are successfully
providing students with the skills and knowledge that today's
employers demand, there is more to be done to ensure that each
and every CTE program is delivering the results for students,
for industry, and for our national economy.
We must do more to spur innovation in the delivery of CTE.
We need to reward and replicate programs achieving positive
results for students and industry to ensure that CTE is
positioned to drive economic success, enhance workforce
alignment, and increase collaboration between secondary and
postsecondary educational institutions, industry, employers,
and community partners.
While successful CTE programs must meet labor market
demands, they must also work for students. They must prepare
them to succeed in demand jobs that offer living wages,
employer benefits, and opportunities for meaningful career
advancement. This requires renewed focus to ensure the
opportunity for all students, especially historically
disadvantaged students, to benefit from CTE programs that are
relevant, rigorous, and high quality.
In recent years, this committee, along with our Senate
colleagues, completed successful, bipartisan reauthorization of
two major laws which we must align with Perkins CTE. I am
confident that the bipartisanship and shared commitment to
equity in education embodied in both the Workforce Innovation
and Opportunity Act and the Every Student Succeeds Act will
produce a bipartisan reauthorization of Perkins CTE that
empowers States and school districts and will make quality CTE
available to all students with the guidance and support of the
Department of Education.
It is our obligation to prioritize equity of opportunity
when it comes to participating in and benefiting from quality
CTE programs. We must preserve and improve program
accountability.
The Federal Government has an important role to play in
setting high expectations both for the systems and for the
students those systems serve. In addition, we must maintain
vigorous oversight and enforcement to ensure those expectations
matter.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank you for holding this
hearing. I would like to thank all of our witnesses for coming
to testify today, and eagerly await their testimony, as you are
all uniquely positioned to provide insight into the challenges,
successes, and future of career and technical education.
Lastly, I look forward to working with you, Mr. Chairman,
and the committee on a bipartisan effort to modernize Federal
support for CTE through the reauthorization of the Carl D.
Perkins Career and Technical Education Act of 2006.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[The information follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Robert C. ``Bobby'' Scott, Ranking Member,
Committee on Education and the Workforce
Good morning and thank you, Chairman Kline. We are here today to
discuss the critical role of career and technical education, or C.T.E.,
in preparing our nation's students for success in the 21st century
workforce. Federal investment in CTE programs is authorized under the
Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education Improvement Act of 2006,
and I am hopeful that today's hearing will serve as a foundation for a
bipartisan comprehensive reauthorization of this important law.
The research is clear: The United States is suffering from a
``skills gap'' due to our failure to produce enough skilled workers to
meet future economic needs. According to the Georgetown University
Center on Education and the Workforce, by 2020, 65 percent of all jobs
in the United States will require some sort of postsecondary education
or training. Yet, at the current production rate, the United States
will fall short by 5 million workers with postsecondary education by
2020.
Investing in high-quality CTE and increasing access to these
programs - through the reauthorization of Perkins CTE - must be a
prioritized as a solution to bridge that gap.
CTE provides students with the knowledge and skills needed to be
both college and career ready. This is not the vocational education of
the past--today's CTE fosters educational environments that engage
students with an integrated curriculum of core academic content and
real-world, work-based relevance. And, I'm proud to say that my home
state of Virginia is a leader in CTE, with more than half a million
sixth through twelfth grade students participating in CTE across the
Commonwealth. Virginia has expanded access to CTE programs that equip
secondary school students with recognized postsecondary credentials
through innovative programs such as dual enrollment and registered
apprenticeships.
As we move forward with reauthorization, we must also prioritize
robust investment in high-quality CTE programs in each and every state
in order to maintain our nation's status as a leader in the global
economy.
The globalization of the marketplace has altered the way the U.S.
and other countries compete for business. We certainly can't compete
with other countries when it comes to the lowest wages, when many
around the world may work for a few dollars or even a few pennies a
day. Nor can we compete in terms of location. With today's technology -
video-conferencing, smartphones, tablets - workers can now work across
the globe from their coworkers.
But the main reason that America remains strong and continues to
attract business investment is because we have well-educated workers.
Our focus on equitable access and high standards for all students - a
system that focuses on college- and career-ready results - is an
economic asset. And while many of today's CTE programs are successfully
providing students with the skills and knowledge that today's employers
demand, there's more to be done to ensure that each and every CTE
program is delivering results for students, for industry, and for our
national economy.
We must also do more to spur innovation in the delivery of CTE. We
need to reward and replicate programs achieving positive outcomes for
students and industry to ensure that CTE is positioned to drive
economic success, enhance workforce alignment and increase
collaboration between education, industry, employers, and community
partners.
While successful CTE programs must meet labor-market needs, they
must also work for students. They must prepare them to succeed in in-
demand jobs that offer living wages, employer benefits, and
opportunities for meaningful career advancement. This requires a
renewed federal focus to ensure the opportunity for all students -
especially historically disadvantaged students - to benefit from CTE
programs that are relevant, rigorous, and high-quality.
In recent years, this committee, along with our Senate colleagues,
completed successful, bipartisan comprehensive reauthorizations of two
major laws with which we must align Perkins CTE. I am confident that
the bipartisanship and shared commitment to equity in education
embodied in both the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act and the
Every Student Succeeds Act will produce a bipartisan reauthorization of
Perkins CTE that empowers states and school districts to make quality
CTE available to all students with the guidance and support of the U.S.
Department of Education.
It is our obligation to prioritize equity of opportunity when it
comes to participating in and benefiting from quality CTE programs. We
must preserve and improve program accountability-- the federal
government has an important role to play in setting high expectations
both for systems and for the students those systems serve. In addition,
we must maintain vigorous oversight and enforcement to ensure those
expectations matter.
So, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to thank you again for holding this
hearing. I would also like to thank our witnesses for coming here to
testify. I eagerly await your testimony, as you all are uniquely
positioned to provide insight into the challenges, successes, and
future of career and technical education. And lastly, I look forward to
continuing to work with Chairman Kline on a bipartisan effort to
modernize federal support for CTE through reauthorization of the Carl
D. Perkins Career and Technical Education Act of 2006.
______
Chairman Kline. I thank the gentleman. Pursuant to
Committee Rule 7(c), all members will be permitted to submit
written statements to be included in the permanent hearing
record. Without objection, the hearing record will remain open
for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous
material referenced during the hearing to be submitted for the
official hearing record.
We are now going to turn to the introductions of our
distinguished witnesses. Mr. Scott, I understand you will
introduce our first witness.
Mr. Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to
introduce Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, a good friend and
inspirational leader from the Commonwealth of Virginia. He is a
longtime advocate for education, and his life's journey is a
tribute to the power of career and technical education
programs.
Now he is the founder and co-chair of the bipartisan CTE
Caucus in the Senate. He focuses on improving access to CTE
programs to ensure that students of all ages are prepared with
skills necessary for the 21st century workforce.
His commitment to public education runs in his family. His
wife, Ann, is also a personal friend, and she serves as the
Commonwealth's Secretary of Education. His father-in-law,
former Governor Linwood Holton, is also a strong advocate of
equal educational opportunities.
I want to thank Senator Kaine for his leadership in the
Senate to ensure that last year's bipartisan Every Student
Succeeds Act included provisions to strengthen school career
counseling programs and encourage alignment between general
career and technical education programs, and to better serve
students.
He also was involved in the reauthorization as he
championed provisions to empower local school districts to
deliver instruction in interpersonal and relationship skills,
key foundation, employability skills or soft skills, that are
often too lacking in high school graduates.
He grew up working in his iron working shop in Kansas City,
educated at University of Missouri and Harvard Law School,
started his public service career by taking a year off from
Harvard to run a technical school founded by Jesuit
missionaries in Honduras.
I am sure we will hear more from the Senator during his
testimony about how these and other real world experiences
shaped his future.
And so, Senator Kaine, I have known for many years, as I
have indicated. About the same time I was getting elected to
Congress, he was getting elected to City Council in Richmond,
then Mayor of Richmond, then Lieutenant Governor, then
Governor, and now Senator from Virginia, and I don't think we
have heard the last of him.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Kline. I thank the gentleman. Senator, thank you
for being here. Although I do know you are sliding down in the
elective political scale here, but thank you for being here
with us today. I understand you need to leave before 11:00. We
will be mindful of that as we go forward.
It is now my pleasure to introduce our remaining witnesses.
Mr. Paul Tse is a project manager with Shapiro & Duncan, Inc.
in Rockville, Maryland. Mr. Tse attended the Thomas Edison High
School of Technology in Montgomery, Maryland. His experience at
Thomas Edison helped prepare him for an HVAC job with Shapiro &
Duncan. In his 12 years with the company, Mr. Tse has gone on
to become a project manager and was part of the leadership team
that recently oversaw a $16 million HVAC installation.
Mr. Jason Bates is an administration manager with Toyota-
Bodine Aluminum in Jackson, Tennessee. Mr. Bates is the
administration manager for the Toyota's Bodine Aluminum, which
supplies aluminum diecast engine parts for the company's North
American power train production.
He oversees the implementation of Toyota's advanced
manufacturing technician program in Tennessee. The MT program
provides students the opportunity to earn a work related
associate's degree while working part-time.
Dr. Monty Sullivan is president of the Louisiana Community
and Technical College System in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Dr.
Sullivan has been president of the Louisiana Community and
Technical College System since February 2014. Prior to serving
as president, he was the chancellor of Delgado Community
College in New Orleans.
He has been a leader in Louisiana's effort to address
workforce needs through the targeted application of the Perkins
Act and State workforce development funding.
Welcome, all of you. Before I recognize each of you to
provide your testimony, let me just go over our highly
complicated lighting system. We allow 5 minutes for each
witness to provide testimony. When you begin, the light in
front of you will turn green. When 1 minute is left, the light
will turn yellow, and at the 5 minute mark, the light will turn
red, and then please try to wrap up your testimony.
I am loath to gavel down witnesses, certainly during their
opening testimony, but you can see we have a number of members
that we want to get through. These members will each have 5
minutes to ask questions, and I hope I can hold with that. That
means I will not be hesitant to gavel down that 5 minute time.
So, let's get started. Senator Kaine, you are recognized.
STATEMENT OF HON. TIM KAINE, UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM THE
STATE OF VIRGINIA
Senator Kaine. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and Ranking Member
Scott, and committee members. I am so pleased that you are
holding this hearing and honored that you asked me to testify.
Congratulations also on WIOA and ESSA. These are two big
accomplishments, and we hope that we can work together
obviously to reauthorize Perkins.
Congressman Scott described my own personal background in
this area. My dad ran an organized iron working and welding
shop in the stockyards of Kansas City, Missouri. My two
brothers and I and my mom grew up all working in that business.
In a tough year, there would be five employees, and in a great
year, there would be seven or eight employees. It was a classic
small business.
But I learned from my father. As the owner, he would always
teach us that his business acumen would help his great welders
and iron workers educate their kids, but their technical
mastery would help him educate his kids. It was a partnership.
And That's what is so good about this topic. It truly is a
partnership.
Years later, when I was at Harvard Law School and not sure
what I wanted to do with my life, I volunteered to go work with
Jesuit missionaries in Honduras. They saw that I was at Harvard
Law School and determined that would have no relevance to
anything they were doing.
But when they realized I had worked in an iron working
shop, they said run a vocational school, Instituto Tecnico
Loyola in El Progreso, 1980 and 81. It was a school that taught
kids to be welders and carpenters.
These early experiences taught me the power of career and
technical education, but then back here as I was going through
schooling and even watching my own kids go through schooling, I
saw a contrast. The schools I went to in Kansas City did not
emphasize career and technical education. In fact, the
vocational education track was kind of sometimes used for kids
that had been probably wrongly determined not to be college
material.
I saw this in my own children's education as they were
going through the public schools in Richmond. There was maybe a
little better attitude but still not an embrace of it.
I remember when I was running for Lieutenant Governor, a
good friend, G.G. Pippin, who is a middle school educator in
Wise County, Virginia, said to me ``I will sometimes see my
kids after they are in middle school and high school, and I'll
ask them what they are doing, and sometimes my kids say I am in
vocational education and slump their shoulders almost as if
they are ashamed to tell me that is what they are doing.''
Clearly, CTE is important, but clearly for a variety of
reasons, we have not emphasized its importance.
When I was Governor of Virginia, I worked hard with
Democrats and Republicans to change that trajectory. We
dramatically increased the number of our young people who are
getting industry certifications, and as much as I would like to
say it was because there was a good Governor, frankly, there
was a renaissance going on in every one of our 134 city and
county school systems. People were starting to embrace again
the notion of technical education.
We started when I was Governor, Governor's Career and
Technical Academies. We had Governor's schools, 17 regional
magnet Governor's schools that would prepare kids for college.
And when I ran for Governor, I said why not call it a career
and technical education program, a Governor's school, just the
label, just to shine the spotlight.
By the time I was done as Governor, there were nine. The
Governor who followed me, Governor McDonnell, took it up to 23.
The Governor who's followed him, Terry McAuliffe, is adding to
it again. There is a renaissance, and people around the State
get it.
In the Senate, I came to the Senate and I wanted to be on
the HELP Committee, and I did not get put on. What I realized
is you do not have to be on the committee, just pick an issue
that nobody on the committee is yet championing. And so I chose
CTE education. I did what any smart Senator would do, I stole
an idea from the House.
You had a CTE Caucus for a very long time and the Senate
hasn't. With Rob Portman of Ohio and Tammy Baldwin of
Wisconsin, we have created a caucus, and we have had meaningful
legislation passed both as part of WIOA and ESSA included in
those bills.
And now, Perkins is our priority, and the committee in the
Senate is working hard on this as well.
We have three bills that are sort of pending on the Senate
side. Conceptually, I'd just like to describe them, because I
think they would be really helpful as we look at Perkins'
reauthorization.
First, the Educating Tomorrow's Workforce Act. I describe
it in the written testimony. It is basically trying to define
for Circa 2016 what is a high quality CTE program. The
interaction with the private sector and employers is important.
Connection with colleges and community colleges is important.
Professional development is important.
What is important about CTE education if it is going to be
truly first class? That is what the Educating Tomorrow's
Workforce Act does.
Second, the Middle STEP Act. I kind of viewed in my own
experience with my own kids that middle school is often kind of
a little bit of a pedagogical wasteland. It is kind of hormone
warehouse. If we are going to expect high schoolers to start
making career choices, including CTE paths, let's use middle
school to expose kids as broadly as possible to what the
workforce is. Most children, they know what their parents do
and they know what teachers do, but they do not really know
what's out there. Let's do that in middle school.
Finally, as I conclude, the CTE Excellence and Equity Act,
which is also a pilot project, designed specifically to enhance
CTE education in schools where there are a lot of underserved
students, because it is a path to success.
I will just conclude and say this is a win-win. Employers
and labor want us to do this. Governors and Mayors want us to
do this. CTE educators who often labored in the shadows but now
are seeing a renaissance, they want us to do it, and most of
all, our kids will win if we do.
Thanks so much for having me.
[The statement of Senator Kaine follows:]
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Chairman Kline. Thank you, Senator. Mr. Tse, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF PAUL TSE, PROJECT MANAGER, SHAPIRO & DUNCAN, INC.
Mr. Tse. Chairman Kline, Ranking Member Scott, and members
of the Education and Workforce Committee, thank you for being
able to testify in front of you today. Thank you for calling
this important hearing on the benefits and the need to fund
career and technical education programs.
My name is Paul Tse. I am a proud graduate of a CTE program
at Thomas Edison High School of Technology in Silver Spring.
I come before you today as a staunch advocate for career
development opportunities for students in construction and
skilled trades. My journey from apprenticeship or apprentice to
project manager began in Hong Kong in 1996. When I was 10 years
old, my parents moved my family to America in search for a
better life. We settled in Montgomery County, Maryland, and
that is still where I live today.
For the first few years of my life in America, my family
bounced around rental properties and staying with relatives,
simply because we just did not have the financial means to own
a home.
Although my parents worked relentlessly to provide for
their kids, they were not immediately able to claim their piece
of the American dream.
While attending Rockville High School, I struggled as a
student. I had attendance problems, mediocre/terrible grades. I
fell into the wrong crowd and lacked any type of direction.
As I started my junior year, I noted my classmates and
friends making plans to go off to college. As I sat and watched
from the sidelines, I can still remember the feeling of
embarrassment and helplessness while those around me were
beginning their climb towards success, and I sat still at the
bottom.
My life took a dramatic turn when one of my family members,
who is a roofer, suggested that I look into the skilled trades
as a career path. Like many of my peers, I had been pushed to
attend a four year college as if anything else was seen as
settling for failure.
With the help of my guidance counselor, I found a local
career and technical education program at Thomas Edison High
School of Technology. Without any construction background, I
decided nervously to enroll in the HVAC program my senior year.
For those of you who do not know, ``HVAC'' stands for heating,
ventilation, and air conditioning, which is what keeps us
comfortable every single day.
Spending my mornings in a typical classroom and my
afternoons at Edison, I was introduced into the world of
construction and the skilled trades following the industry's
recognized and credentialed curriculum of National Center for
Construction Education and Research, NCCER.
Thanks to the dedicated staff and new found sense of
direction, I graduated the program at the same time my peers
were graduating their typical high schools. Within a week of
graduation, I had two job offers from respected local companies
to join their team as an apprentice. Even before my peers
packed up their bags and got into their cars headed out for
freshman move-in day, I accepted a position with Shapiro &
Duncan Mechanical Contractors, and got right to work.
In the summer, I logged valuable hours as a simple helper
on a small construction project, and in the fall, I started my
official apprenticeship program. For the next four years, I
worked on projects during the day and attended classroom
education in the evenings at Montgomery College, as part of the
ACCA program, Air Conditioning Contractors of America.
In the classroom, I was motivated and learned the basic
theories of HVAC and also some complex math equations and
calculations. My on-the-job training transferred what I had
learned in the evenings into real world projects. At the end of
my program, I was proud to be named the HVAC journeyman as
recognized by the State of Maryland.
I would like to note an important fact about the day I
graduated, because I was fortunate enough to have my employer
pay for the cost of my apprenticeship program, I was debt free.
Not only was I debt free, I was also paid for the four year
apprenticeship program, so I received my postsecondary
education at no cost and earned four years of salary during
that same time. I bet there are many folks in this room today,
both younger and older, who are probably still paying off their
student loans from undergrad or their grade school.
I started my ascension into leadership positions during my
time in the field. I ran small projects as a field foreman,
leading small crews of two to four technicians on installation
work, such as AC replacements at condominiums, schools, and
small office buildings.
After seven years of working in the field, I moved up the
project letter and secured a position as an assistant project
manager. After a year of that, my company deemed me a valuable
enough asset and I was promoted to become a project manager.
In the construction world, a project manager manages all
aspects of a project, including budget, means and methods of
installing work, schedule, and just overall constructability.
As someone who has real world experience installing systems
and welding pipes, I have an unique vantage point as a project
manager. I did not only learn from a book on how to light a
torch, I actually held it in my hand.
Some of my colleagues graduated from four year colleges
with degrees in construction management and mechanical
engineering. While I am sure this benefitted them, my field
experience and CTE training gave me a true competitive edge.
I come before you today humbled and thankful that I had the
opportunity to attend the CTE program at Edison. It is time
that students, guidance counselors, educators, parents,
American public, recognize the fulfilling and lucrative career
that can be achieved in the construction and skilled trades.
We must all work to remove any stigma that exists that in
choosing a CTE program over a traditional four year college it
is somehow settling.
Those four years I spent at Montgomery College and out in
the field, I worked just as hard as the students at colleges
and universities. Instead of pushing kids down the traditional
path of college prep, we should be pushing kids to explore
learning opportunities that prepare them for college and a
career.
Whether the destination is an engineering degree from the
University of Maryland or a journeyman's license from the State
of Maryland, high schoolers should have the equal opportunities
to prepare for either pathway.
Chairman Kline, Ranking Member Scott, members of the
committee, I am the American dream. I urge all of you to ensure
that every child in America has the same opportunities as I
did. Thank you.
[The statement of Mr. Tse follows:]
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Chairman Kline. Thank you very much. Mr. Bates, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF JASON BATES, MANAGER, TOYOTA-BODINE ALUMINUM, INC.
Mr. Bates. Good morning, Chairman Kline, Ranking Member
Scott, and members of the committee. Thank you for this
opportunity to testify on this important subject.
My name is Jason Bates. I am manager of Administration at
the Toyota-Bodine plant in Jackson, Tennessee. I started
working for Toyota 10 years ago, and at the plant, my
responsibilities include, among other things, training and
development.
Last January, I was appointed by Governor Bill Haslam to
serve on the Tennessee Workforce Development Board.
U.S. manufacturers are depending on Congress to enact
education policies that are intentional in generating a robust
world class workforce pipeline. By taking action before the end
of the year, Congress can reinvigorate the foundation required
to ensure America's long-term global manufacturing leadership.
Like other advanced manufacturing companies in the United
States, Toyota's employment needs are significant. We face
formidable challenges arising from our country's skills gap.
Toyota's response to the skills gap has been both vigorous and
innovative.
We have partnered with over 50 schools across the country
to develop benchmark educational programs in two areas. First,
we developed top service technicians for our Lexis and Toyota
dealerships through a program called ``Toyota T-TEN.'' Second,
we are educating skilled manufacturing technicians for our
factories through an effort called the ``Advanced Manufacturing
Technician'' or AMT program.
Today, I will focus on our AMT program, which I was
responsible for launching in Tennessee with Jackson State
Community College. AMT is now a core component of Toyota's
manufacturing success. It is designed to supply our U.S.
factories with a cadre of skilled technicians who manage and
maintain complex robotics and other manufacturing equipment.
The program began in 2010 as a collaboration between Toyota
and Kentucky's Bluegrass Community & Technical College. Since
then, it has expanded into public/private partnerships in 8
States, Alabama, Indiana, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri,
Tennessee, Texas, and West Virginia.
There are about 400 students enrolled, and that number is
expected to significantly increase in the coming school year.
At most of these locations, other companies, ranging from
global manufacturers like 3M, GE, and Delta Faucet, to small
manufacturers with fewer than 50 employees also participate.
Altogether, there are more than 160 companies involved. This is
important because private sector engagement is critical to
solving the skills gap, and Perkins CTE reauthorization can
help foster that outcome.
Classes are conducted in an environment that is set up to
look, feel, and function like the work environment. Students
work and attend classes 40 hours a week for five straight
semesters and earn enough money from their work to cover their
tuition and expenses. Both their study and work experiences are
organized around a structured sequence that teaches various
technical and employment skills.
The ultimate objective is a graduate who is multi-skilled,
possesses strong math and reading capabilities, is a fast
technical learner, is a problem solver, a good communicator,
and is comfortable working as part of a team.
This is the model for a globally competitive manufacturing
technician we expect our educational partners to produce.
Perkins CTE can encourage similar work-based learning
opportunities which would foster similar high caliber
graduates.
Critical to AMT's success is identifying qualifying
prospects. To ensure highly motivated students apply to the
program, Toyota has increased its coordination with secondary
and elementary schools. Part of our recruiting dynamic is
having high school juniors, sophomores, and freshmen come and
see our facilities year after year. We also interface with
teachers and counselors so they are more inclined to recommend
the program to their students.
Another important aspect is encouraging the right kind of
learning at early stages of a student's development. Toyota
maintains a close working relationship with Project Lead The
Way, a nationwide program that supplies innovative science,
technology, and math curricula. Other STEM partners include
FIRST Robotics and VEX Robotics.
Strong alignment between the manufacturing and education
sector is of utmost importance to Toyota. We are thankful that
the committee passed the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity
Act. Your emphasis on requiring greater business community
involvement in a State workforce development decision making is
proving very helpful.
As I mentioned before, I was recently appointed by Governor
Haslam to serve on the Tennessee Workforce Development Board. I
am honored to serve in this position, and grateful that my
Governor believes my Toyota experience can help foster an even
stronger workforce development system in our State.
Aligning Perkins CTE reauthorization with WIOA would make
the workforce system more efficient and easier to navigate for
employers interested in lending help.
Congress should reauthorize the Perkins CTE Act, and in
doing so, should consider the following improvements. First,
align CTE programs directly with the needs of regional, State,
and local labor markets in manners consistent with WIOA.
Second, encourage and support meaningful collaboration between
secondary and postsecondary institutions and employers.
Third, increase student participation in work-based
learning opportunities. Finally, promote the use of industry
recognized credentials.
Reauthorization of Perkins CTE in this manner will
strengthen the workforce pipeline across America and help
students succeed in industries like manufacturing. I urge this
committee to take action as soon as possible.
Thank you for allowing me to testify before the committee,
and I am happy to answer any questions.
[The statement of Mr. Bates follows:]
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Chairman Kline. Thank you. Dr. Sullivan, you are recognized
for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF MONTY SULLIVAN, PRESIDENT, LOUISIANA COMMUNITY AND
TECHNICAL COLLEGE SYSTEM
Mr. Sullivan. Chair Kline, Ranking Member Scott, members of
the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be with you
this morning, thank you for the opportunity to be a part of
this distinguished panel. Thank you for giving me an
opportunity to share with you a few thoughts on the future of
the Carl D. Perkins Career and Technical Education Act.
I am Monty Sullivan. I serve as president of Louisiana's
Community and Technical Colleges. We are a system of 13
community and technical colleges serving over 150,000 students
across Louisiana and providing administration and leadership
for the Perkins' efforts there.
I am also a member of the American Association of Community
Colleges and a Board member for Rebuilding America's Middle
Class or RAMC.
Reauthorization of the Perkins Act is a critical step
forward for our Nation as addressing the skills gap continues
to be one of the foremost challenges for igniting our economy
and more importantly, for improving the lives of Americans from
all walks of life.
I hail from a State with a rich career and technical
education history. In fact, recently, Lumina Foundation's A
Stronger Nation report indicated Louisiana's overall working
age postsecondary attainment rate improved from 50th in the
Nation to 26th in the Nation.
A key factor in that dramatic improvement was the inclusion
for the first time of less than Associate degree credentials.
Louisiana ranks first in the Nation in the percentage of adults
with a high quality postsecondary certificate, as the highest
level of attainment. Not often do we get to make claims like
that in Louisiana.
The strategic investment of Perkins' funds has been
instrumental in achieving this accomplishment. This success has
occurred in an environment with sharply declining State
resources and increasing tuition. Meanwhile, Louisiana's
economy continues to show strong workforce demands in spite of
a recent downturn in the oil and gas economy.
The combination of a strong market demand, narrowing State
resources, and increasing tuition costs has forced our colleges
to focus more keenly than ever before on responding to the
workforce needs of industry, improving the value proposition to
our students, and maximizing every single dollar that can be
driven toward a career and technical education.
Simply put, alignment of programs and resources to market
demands has been key to our success.
The following is a list of policy recommendations for your
consideration. First, align the Perkins Act with the tenets of
WIOA to focus on solving the workforce challenges of States and
communities. WIOA provided a foundation for data, definitions,
and success measures that focus on regional labor market
demands.
Labor market data should drive investments and be a key
factor in performance metrics, specifically in the
postsecondary measures area. States with access to earnings
data should be able to use that data to demonstrate their
performance. Funding should be viewed as a means to underwrite
programs that meet future workforce needs, not fund traditional
programs.
Recommendation two, emphasize regional consolidated plans
across education sectors with significant industry engagement.
The most successful career and technical education programs or
efforts have strong partnerships and substantive industry
contributions, both financial and non-financial. These
partnerships should be a basic tenet of the future of Perkins.
Number three, encourage dual enrollment opportunities
focused on completion of high demand credentials, not simply
courses.
Recommendation four, under the special populations
provision of the Perkins Act, consider focusing on key
populations.
Community colleges serve a broad cross section of the
American people. Those most in need of training are often
adults with no high school diploma and returning military
veterans. Consider making specific allowances for these
populations within the Perkins Act.
The fifth recommendation deals with accountability.
Accountability should focus on end measures, not process means
or unit measures. Set out the purpose of the Perkins Act and
measure our efforts based upon outcomes meaningful to students,
communities, and employers.
The reauthorization of the Carl D. Perkins Act is an
opportunity to target resources at one of the Nation's most
pressing challenges, educating and skilling our most precious
natural resource, our people.
The programs funded through this act are today and will be
more so in the future the path for millions of people to the
American dream. I wish you the best in the work before you, and
look forward to answering any questions you may have. Thank
you.
[The statement of Mr. Sullivan follows:]
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Chairman Kline. Thank you, sir. Thanks to all the
witnesses, very inspiring stories. We are going to try to move
with some alacrity here, mindful of Senator Kaine's need to
leave a little bit early. We are going to try working with 5
minutes per member but we may very quickly cut it to 4 so that
everybody has a chance to participate.
Let me start, Mr. Bates, in your testimony, you really talk
a lot about the effectiveness of the advanced manufacturing
technician, the AMT program, and how it helped address Toyota's
workforce challenges. Toyota is a very large company.
Mr. Bates. Yes.
Chairman Kline. A lot of resources that smaller employers
may not have or will not have by comparison. How have small
businesses been able to participate in or benefit from the AMT
program?
Mr. Bates. Thank you, Chairman Kline. That is a wonderful
question, and I can speak to my experience in Jackson,
Tennessee with Jackson State Community College. Our community
does not have a large manufacturer, even though I work for
Toyota, our plant is about 315 team members. Most of the
employers around our area are less than that.
We were able to reach out to them and ask them what their
needs were. Consistently, from talking with other H.R.
managers, they have always struggled with finding skilled
technicians. We recognize that by them participating in this
program, they would also be able to take advantage of the
opportunity.
One of the key successes of this program is the work based
learning opportunity, the co-op program, as we call it. I,
myself, could not sponsor or have more than 2 or 3 co-ops a
year, and other smaller manufacturers could only maybe take one
co-op a year. By coming together, we could work with our
community college and be able to support a cohort of 20 to 25
students, and that is exactly what we did.
This program is designed to allow even a small manufacturer
with less than 50 employees, per se, be able to participate, to
sponsor a co-op, and have them work at their facility, and then
when the students graduates after 2 years with their Associate
of Applied Science degree, not only do they have a degree, they
have 2 years of work experience at the factory they are co-
oping. The employer has an opportunity to hire that student to
come then work in their facility for the future.
It is a great opportunity to bring all sizes of
manufacturing together for this program.
Chairman Kline. Good story. Thank you very much. Mr. Scott?
Mr. Scott. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator Kaine, you
fought to expand career counseling, modernization of high
schools with work based learning opportunities, and designation
of CTE as a well-rounded education component of ESSA.
You also worked to get relationship skills in there that, I
assume, would be very helpful as one of the soft skills we keep
hearing about.
What can we do to make sure that what we did in ESSA is
coordinated with the CTE programs?
Senator Kaine. Thank you, Congressman Scott. It was an
important part, I think, of ESSA and the reauthorization this
committee and the Senate did. We did focus on the career
counseling piece. I think some of the testimony of the other
witnesses have suggested that is a really important part of
this for teachers, counselors, and students, and their parents
to understand how valuable these opportunities are.
I think the key that we all should focus on is now that the
Department of Ed is working with the chief State school
officers to implement ESSA--my wife as Secretary of Education
in Virginia is doing what 49 other secretaries are doing,
pulling together the stakeholders, trying to figure out how to
implement for the school year that begins in the fall of 2017.
I think it is really important that through the Department
of Ed and in our own interactions with our State officers and
the States we represent ask what are you doing on the career
counseling side.
It is really important what you did by elevating CTE as
kind of a core curriculum as part of the ESSA reauthorization,
was to end the stigma that much of the testimony discussed. We
have to make sure as the chief State school officers are making
the implementing changes that does actually lift to front and
center. I think this is really important work that we can be
about between now and the fall of 2017.
Mr. Scott. Thank you. We both work on judiciary issues and
have found that CTE can be an effective strategy for keeping
children engaged. How does your CTE Excellence and Equity Act
help keep children engaged and reduce achievement gaps and
things like that?
Senator Kaine. Very important. I could not have had a
better example than the witness who followed me. So many of our
youngsters in high school who are really talented and able to
do well, maybe they just do not see the relevance of what they
are learning, and then they start to get into a CTE curriculum,
and not only do they find that really exciting, but then the
CTE curriculum reminds them why the academic subjects are
strong.
I have had numerous interactions with students, for
example, who have decided to take CTE courses in the allied
health fields, EMT, and suddenly their biology and chemistry
grades go way up because they understand what the relevance is.
The act on CTE excellence and equity that we are promoting
on the Senate side would be a pilot project to really go into
underserved students, students who are not academically
successful but maybe they are not successful because they do
not grasp the relevance to their future life, and do programs
that provide them with student support, but also have
significant connections to the private sector to regional
workforce demands and higher ed institutions.
It is that partnership, I think, that some of our students
just do not know what is out there, when they see that
partnership, they really catch fire about what their
opportunities are.
Mr. Scott. The chairman and I both mentioned in our opening
remarks the difference between career and technical education
today and what used to be an alternative to an education. Can
you talk about the importance of making sure that we get the
core academics as part of any CTE program?
Senator Kaine. Absolutely important. And as I think about
my own high school years, many, many years ago, vocational
education was almost kind of a tracked system where people
would be sort of pushed there if teachers or guidance
counselors did not think they were college material, whatever
that means.
We want to raise CTE but we can't do it in a way that
repeats sort of the tracking phenomenon of the past. I think
that is why I really like this Middle STEP bill we have in. We
have to equip students with the tools to start making choices
among competing career paths that are all great.
They start to make those choices when they are signing up
for high school courses, but usually they are picking high
school courses without having done a lot of intentional thought
about what their career options might be.
Middle school is not too early for kids to decide do I see
myself working outdoors or indoors, or in front of a computer.
You can get kids to start thinking about what works for them. I
think we need to expand CTE but not repeat some of the kind of
tracking mistakes of the past. If we do, we will compound our
equity challenges.
Mr. Scott. Thank you.
Chairman Kline. Thank you. Mr. Wilson, you are recognized
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Wilson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank
each of you for being here, and particularly Mr. Tse. Your
testimony is an encouragement to other young people to have
successful lives and fulfilling lives, and I wish you well in
your career.
Mr. Bates, I was particularly impressed by your description
of the employer driven training partnership you have developed.
In South Carolina, we have attracted many blue chip companies
such as Boeing, because of the ability to create skilled talent
with advanced career and technical education workers through
employer driven training partnerships such as the ones you
described.
A great example is the Boeing Ready SE partnership. This
program has resulted in hiring over 4,500 program graduates
since its founding in 2009. South Carolina was able to go from
a State that did not have a significant aviation industry into
one that is producing the world's most advanced wide body
aircraft, the 787 Dreamliner, with 8,000 employees, and
obviously suppliers across the State.
This is why I would like to see these programs encouraged
in the reauthorization of the Perkins Career and Technical
Education Act. Could you speak to the emphasis that employers
are placing on the availability of talent in deciding where to
locate their major operations?
Mr. Bates. Yes, Congressman. I think that is very
important. In my community, the economic and community
development group is very active in reaching out to global
manufacturers to come relocate to our area. I think many States
are the same way.
I can testify that our AMT program that we established at
Jackson State Community College was a determining factor for a
recent manufacturer to come to our State and set up their
manufacturing operation. They are an automotive supplier. That
was one of the decision makers for them, they knew they had a
workforce development program at a local community college that
was going to be able to provide them with the skilled
technicians they were going to need not only now but also in
the future.
These types of programs are absolutely essential for our
continued growth in developing our global manufacturing
leadership here in the United States.
Mr. Wilson. I want to congratulate Tennessee. Dr. Roe has
educated us on the success of Tennessee. From the perspective
of South Carolina, we are very grateful with the success of a
sister company, BMW, we are the largest exporter of cars of any
State in the Union. Again, Mr. Tse, we still have room for you
in South Carolina.
We have tire manufacturing. Who would imagine South
Carolina is now the leading manufacturer and exporter of tires
with Bridgestone of Japan, with Michelin of France, with
Continental of Germany, Giti Tire of Singapore. Again, it is
technical education that has made a difference.
Dr. Sullivan, in your testimony today, about creating jobs,
I am really grateful as I cited in South Carolina, we have had
terrific programs like Apprenticeship Carolina, the SC
technical college system. With that and your background, what
would you identify as the biggest challenges facing schools and
businesses to partner to improve the CTE programs?
Mr. Sullivan. Thank you for the question, Congressman
Wilson. Certainly, the State of South Carolina has offered a
great deal for many of us to learn from, and we are
appreciative for the good work going on there.
One of the things that I think is most important for us to
do as community and technical colleges is to remain both aware
of and keep pace with industry demands in terms of the
workforce needs. Often times, that can be a difficult challenge
because of the resource limitations.
Perkins provides a critical opportunity for us to be able
to make those investments to remain competitive in terms of the
curriculum that we offer.
One of the second areas that is very difficult for our
colleges to keep up with is to ensure that our faculty members
have the training necessary to be relevant in the classroom for
students. That relationship back with business and industry,
just as we talked about a few minutes ago, so very important,
because industry often times can help us to not only know where
they may be today but also to forecast where they are going in
the future.
Mr. Wilson. I want to commend Virginia for its success. One
of the reasons we had success, it goes to the equipment, is a
company could locate their manufacturing equipment in a
technical school and reserve their proprietary information, and
persons could be trained so that immediately when the facility
is completed, a young person like Mr. Tse can go right to work
and be very productive.
I yield the balance of my time.
Chairman Kline. I thank the gentleman. We are starting to
run out of States, I think. I am not sure. I feel slighted, by
the way. Ms. Fudge, you are recognized.
Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all
for being here today. It was enlightening to hear your success
stories and as well to hear our chairman talk about the need
for these programs now more than ever.
And with that said, I do have to note that Perkins' funding
has declined by 24 percent since 1998. So if we need these
programs, certainly we need to take a look at how we fund them.
Senator, can you just talk to me about how this reduction
in funds has hindered the expansion of high quality CTE
programs?
Senator Kaine. The reduction of funds is sort of coming at
exactly the wrong time because the good news is I think there
is a renaissance of awareness that this is really important,
and with the economic circumstances, especially the fiscal
reversals and recession of 2008 and 2010, there is even more
need for training, and more need for people to receive that
training.
So the funding has been going down at the same time as the
need has been increasing, and thank goodness, we have all been
realizing the importance of these programs. You get good bang
for the buck out of these investments.
Ms. Fudge. I just want to say, as we all fly a lot, I was
sitting on a plane one day next to a guy. This is in the last
month. He probably had the dirtiest fingernails I have ever
seen in my life, right. I asked him what he does. He teaches
welding to young people at a high school in Texas.
He started to talk to me about how important Perkins was.
He started to talk to me about what these young people have
accomplished through his programs, and how they have succeeded
when no one thought they would succeed.
I agree 100 percent, we need to look at the funding and we
need to fund more of these programs so these young people can
come out and do productive things. We know there is a shortage
of welders in this country, or bricklayers, and masons. We need
to train them. I think we can do that if we put the resources
in it. I thank you for that.
As well, Senator Kaine, last year, I introduced the Go to
High School, Go to College Act, which would expand Pell
eligibility, of course, for students attending early college
high schools. You introduced the JOBS Act last year as well,
which would allow Pell grants to students enrolled in short-
term job training programs.
Can you talk a bit about why it is important for us to
expand the use of Pell grants to these kinds of programs?
Senator Kaine. I will get on my soap box, this is really
important. This is an example of the second class status of CTE
that still is kind of contained in the Federal laws. So a Pell
grant, if you income qualify, you can get a Pell grant but the
course has to be the length of a college semester. A lot of
high intensity welding programs are 10 week courses. It is not
the length of a college semester, it is not 14 weeks. We do not
allow Pell grants for these intense CTE programs.
Why don't we? The student income qualifies. It is because
we have viewed those programs as second class. I will tell you
another one. In the military, active duty, military tuition
assistance benefit. You can get that if your CO says what you
want to study is relevant to your MOS.
You can use it at a community college or a college, up to
$4,500 a year, but if you want to use $300 to take the American
Welding Society's certification exam because you are trained as
an ordinance enlisted officer, you can't use the money for the
certification exam. You got to use it on a college campus. It
makes no sense.
There are still many policies that kind of hold the college
and CTE on two levels. Some of the best policy we can do is
going through and removing those vestiges of the day when CTE
was not viewed as of equal measure. That is why we introduced
the JOBS Act. So if you income qualify, take that 10 week HVAC
intensive course. It does not have to be the length of a
college semester.
Ms. Fudge. I am hopeful that is something we can do on a
bipartisan basis. It makes all the sense in the world. I am
hoping that my colleagues will be supportive of it.
Lastly, to you, Senator Kaine, please talk to me about why
it is important for us to address the Higher Education Act as
it relates to training educators in the CTE programs.
Senator Kaine. Great question. The Higher Education Act is
also maybe the best place to fix this Pell grant disparity that
we were just discussing. But, training is critical. One of the
bills that we have that I was discussing in my testimony,
Educating Tomorrow's Workforce Act, really talks about this
career training and professionalism.
I think we have all seen many of our great teachers these
days are career switchers, but there is no place where that is
more the case than in CTE education. I am sure the teacher that
you talked to on the plane with the dirty fingernails, before
he was a teacher, he was a practicing welder, and then he was
bringing that into the classroom.
So professional development is really important, and maybe
with a special focus on the career switcher, to bring them from
the technical field into the classroom, they tend to be the
most popular teachers in many of the schools where they work.
Ms. Fudge. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Kline. The gentlelady yields back. Senator Kaine,
it is not my role to be your staffer, but I understand we have
reached your hard stop. I want to thank you again for your time
and your expertise, and wish you good luck in turning that
slide around. The Jesuits still need you.
Senator Kaine. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Kline. Thank you very much, Senator. Dr. Foxx, you
are recognized.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While Senator Kaine is
leaving, I want to say how much I appreciated his comments, in
particular his experiences with seeing people who feel going
into education that is not a four year degree is something less
than a four year agree. I have experienced that myself.
As far as I know, everybody getting a four year degree
wants a vocation, therefore, my attitude is all education is
vocational education, because everybody is out there wanting to
get a job when they complete their credentials. We might keep
that in mind as something to talk about.
Mr. Bates, you recommended we consider ways to increase
work based learning as part of the Perkins Act reauthorization.
I think we can all agree that work based learning is important
and it benefits students. If you want to say more about that,
okay, but I think we get that.
Tell me what Toyota did to get the schools on board with
this idea because that is usually a big hurdle to face.
Mr. Bates. Yes, that is a good question, Congresswoman. One
of the things we had to do when we first were looking into this
program is we had to be very honest with the schools. The
community college came to our facility and were asking us how
they were doing.
We had to tell them, unfortunately, the graduates and the
students that they were producing were not meeting our
qualifications. That was measured through a pre-employment test
skills test, technical test, that the graduates had to take. We
had a 25 percent pass rate, which is not very good.
They were very willing to hear and take that knowledge, and
we shared with them the AMT program Toyota had utilized in
Kentucky, and they then went out of their way and visited the
communities and colleges in Kentucky. They went to Mississippi.
They saw the value of this program, and they also saw and
recognized the value of cooperative work experiences.
I think that experience allowed them to then realize the
benefit of it. The other benefit that we had locally is one of
the directors of the program had gone through many, many years
ago a tool and die journeyman's apprenticeship. He was able to
then also realize the value of his work experience in getting
to where he was in his career.
Those types of experiences and reminding the schools that
their job is to help produce students who can find employment,
and the best way to do that is to provide them an education and
also provide them with an opportunity to apply that education
and develop that skill.
Ms. Foxx. I have talked with Toyota people about the T-TEN
program and about how you involve smaller employers in your
program, too. I want to commend Toyota for having the
perspective that it is important to help people get a good
education throughout the community because you share these
people back and forth.
I am a big proponent, as my colleagues know, of
apprenticeships, internships, on-the-job. I understand that
Toyota has not registered the AMT program with the Department
of Labor. Can you discuss the reasons you opted not to register
the program?
Mr. Bates. I think I can answer that question simply as
logistics. The AMT program is not just a program that Toyota is
doing by itself. We are really dependent upon the schools to
provide the curriculum and the training. We have over 160 other
companies that are part of the program in a variety of
different States. To coordinate what that would require to get
it federally recognized would be a very difficult endeavor.
I would say, however, in my understanding of federally
recognized apprentice programs, what we have would meet the
qualifications for that program.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much. Mr. Tse, at what age do you
think schools should start exposing students to career
exploration and CTE learning opportunities?
Mr. Tse. Congresswoman, I personally feel the earlier the
better. I think kids should make their own choices, they should
be able to explore what is right for them as early as possible.
As Senator Kaine mentioned earlier, I think middle school would
be a great starting point for kids to look at different paths
they want to take in life.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, just one quick comment
about the 25 percent pass rate. It does us no good to keep
throwing money at these programs if we do not have
accountability, and they are not producing what it is we need.
I think this hearing is great, telling us how we need to
reform the programs to get what we need for the money we are
paying.
Chairman Kline. The gentlelady's time has expired. Ms.
Bonamici?
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and Mr.
Ranking Member, I am very glad we are having this discussion
today about how to strengthen the Perkins Career and Technical
Education Act. It is something that comes up at almost every
single high school I visit.
In St. Helens, Oregon, which is a town of about 13,000
people in rural Columbia County, there is a view of Mount St.
Helens, that is where the town's name came from, they have five
different CTE programs, all of which serve the community. They
have an early childhood education program that runs a day care
center. They are the only high school in Oregon that has a AAA
certified auto repair shop.
When I met with the instructor, he said we do not just
teach students how to repair cars, I teach them business
ethics, there are so many lessons there. Their construction
students build tiny homes, which is kind of a win-win for
communities that have housing challenges.
I have seen so many students who are engaged because of the
availability of these classes. Sherwood High School in my
district has a girls only welding class. It is always full with
a wait list. Newberg High School has a fabulous culinary
program where students are learning chemistry and science as
well as culinary skills.
One of the things I want to emphasize, we all know about
the skills gap. There are so many examples of CTE courses that
are designed to really meet the local needs. Another example
from my district is Yamhill Carlton High School in Yamhill
County, in partnership with Chemeketa Community College. They
have viticulture programs to teach people how to work in the
wine industry, which is a big part of the economy there. It is
the only high school I know of with a vineyard. They are
teaching students the skills they need for those local jobs.
As Senator Kaine mentioned, often times these CTE classes
inspire students to do well in their other courses as well, and
I am concerned that we are in a situation where we are denying
opportunities to students to experience CTE courses, just
because there may not be jobs available in that particular
area.
Students are learning important skills, like collaboration,
communication, responsibility, as well as academics. I would
have concern if we are only giving these opportunities to
students if there are jobs that match up in the local community
at that period of time.
This is education. We need to make sure that students are
having skills for the jobs of tomorrow that we might not even
know about as well as the jobs of today. I am sure I speak for
all my colleagues when I say I hope we can reauthorize Perkins
and provide States and educators with the direction and
resources they need.
I know both Ms. Foxx and Mr. Wilson talked about the work
based programs. Boeing in Oregon, for example, has an
internship program, and they pay students to learn. Some of
them go on to take positions with Boeing, many go to other
similar manufacturing companies or go to apprenticeship
programs that are operated jointly by Boeing and the
International Associations of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.
So I wonder if you could discuss, Mr. Bates, briefly,
because I want to have time for another question, how are those
work based learning opportunities--how can we expand those but
particularly with focus on some of the rural areas?
Mr. Bates. Yes, I think that is an excellent question, and
that is a struggle in my State as well, in Tennessee. We have a
large rural population that struggles to have those
opportunities.
I think one of the things that is very helpful is the
community college system in my area does reach out to over a 10
county area, and most of them are rural counties. One of the
things that we have done is reach out to all the various high
schools in those counties and educate them about the programs
that are available, the CTE type programs.
We have visited high schools, and we have talked to them
about the value of manufacturing and the skills necessary to
learn and be able to be effective in manufacturing.
One of the things that is important is to also help them
recognize that if we are able to provide them with good job
opportunities, provide them with a great education, that their
time in learning those skills are going to be beneficial to
them in the long run.
Ms. Bonamici. In the remaining few seconds, I want each of
you to just talk about the importance of evidence-based
practices, and we need to have ongoing research to help
identify proven strategies. Any thoughts on how important that
is, to make sure we are engaging all students in proven
programs?
Mr. Sullivan. Perhaps I will begin. I think career and
technical education is a natural fit for evidence-based
practice. There are lots of examples out there, not only of
exactly the skill sets that are needed within the curriculum
but also the outcomes.
As we talk to employers across Louisiana, they have said to
us show me a quality program and we will show you graduates
that are making a great income. The evidence not only is
happening within the curriculum but as well within the earnings
side of things.
Ms. Bonamici. I see my time has expired. I yield back.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Kline. I thank the lady for yielding back. Dr.
Roe?
Mr. Roe. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Tse, I can do a very
sophisticated operation on your wife or your family, but my air
conditioner does not work on the third floor of my house right
now, and I need you in Tennessee.
We are not a wealthy State in Tennessee. We do not have a
State income tax. We have the lowest per capita debt in the
Nation. We had the largest education gains in the country for
three years in a row. We had the second fastest job growth. We
have no road debt. We are a very well run and managed State,
yet we recognized in our State that career and technical
education was incredibly important. We are the only State in
the Union that provides free community college and technical
education.
If you leave the workforce, let's say you lose your job,
something happened to your job where you were, there is a
program called Tennessee Reconnect. You can come back in and be
retrained. This was something we recognized for the future of
our State.
It will not pay dividends for 10, 15, 20 years, but
Tennessee is investing heavily in CTE education.
One of the things I want to get to fairly quickly--by the
way, just another comment, during the height of the recession,
90 percent of the people who graduated from our technical
schools got jobs, during the height of the recession, when
other people were looking for jobs everywhere.
There is a huge need for what you are doing. I am totally
supportive. What I want to do is if Tennessee can do this and
make this investment, and we have like the 4th or 5th lowest
per capita income in the country, why don't other States do it?
What I want to know is how do we streamline this, and Dr.
Sullivan, you touched on it in your comments about the four or
five things we could do. How can we make this money go further?
Mr. Sullivan. Thank you for your question. I think probably
the beginning point is to have consolidated plans across
educational sectors. The notion of having a local application
plan for a secondary school system and a separate plan for
postsecondary education, both of whom are probably trying to
engage with employers separately, is a non-starter. It really
is not very efficient use of the dollars.
When we begin to think about it, we have to think about the
act, more so turning the telescope around from the other end,
and begin to think of it from the labor market perspective and
the employer perspective, rather than from the educational
entity perspective. I think that is a big shift in our
thinking.
Mr. Roe. That is how you would coordinate the WIOA that we
did a couple of years ago.
Mr. Sullivan. Yes, sir.
Mr. Roe. Mr. Bates, one of the things I wanted to ask was
basically what you all did at Toyota was private sector driven.
You had to get skilled technicians to work in your plant in
Jackson, Tennessee, or otherwise you could not be competitive
in the world.
Mr. Bates. That is correct.
Mr. Roe. You reached out to the technical schools, private
sector reached out to the public sector, and you worked
together to try to create this opportunity not only for the
students but for job creation. Am I correct?
Mr. Bates. Yes.
Mr. Roe. Is that the way we should be going? I believe this
top down approach we do here, where we try to tell you what to
do, is the wrong way. I believe the bottom end approach where
you all are on the ground working every day, you know what your
needs are--one of the things we have not mentioned, and in a
bipartisan way, we worked on this last week.
One of the things I hear at home all the time is can you
pass a drug test, something as simple as that, can you just
pass a drug test. Will you show up to work on time. Those are
soft skills, I realize, but those are just as important as the
other technical skills that you are learning.
One other question I have is as the committee looks into
this reauthorization of Perkins, what reforms should we
consider to allow States to meet the unique educational
business needs? What should we do?
Mr. Bates. I think it is important to reach out to the
local industry to find out what specifically is necessary. I
have to give credit to Governor Haslan in the State of
Tennessee. Many years ago, four or five years ago, he went
through the entire State and had roundtables with educators,
with local industry, and had discussions, what is it that we
need to provide.
In our community, it was we need assistance with helping to
provide for the skilled training for the skilled technicians
for our future workforce. He was able to take that information
from across the State and develop various programs that allow
us to have things like you mentioned, Tennessee Reconnect,
Tennessee Promise, which encourages young people to look at
technical education and community colleges as a way to get that
technical education for their future.
Mr. Roe. Many people, as has been pointed out, will just
use that as a stepping stone to then go further their education
in something else as Mr. Tse did.
One final comment. I think one of the frustrations I have
in this place is we have an overtime rule that is going to come
out this week. The University of Tennessee, one of my alma
maters, complying with that one rule, not a law but a rule, is
going to add 4 percent to the tuition of every student that
goes to the University of Tennessee, whereas one of the biggest
barriers to education today is cost.
Vanderbilt University, complying with all the rules and
regulations they have to do, costs them $150 million to comply
with government rules and regulations.
I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Kline. The gentleman yields back. Mr. Pocan, you
are recognized.
Mr. Pocan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate it. Thank
you to the witnesses. I get a chance to visit a number of
technical schools, not only in our State, but in other States.
One of the things they always point out is the value of the
Perkins' money, and they show me what they used it for and how
many people it is helping. That is really appreciated.
In fact, just last week, I was at Gateway Technical
College. They had a group of children, a couple busloads of
children, doing Sumo wrestling robots, to get the interest, and
it was great watching the energy and participation on that.
I do want to echo, I think, Ms. Fudge's request about why
it is still very important that we look at the funding. I have
seen the funding in these facilities.
I would like to try to get to three areas. The first one,
Mr. Bates, in one of your suggestions, you talked about more
student participation. I was hoping you could just expand on
that a little bit, and also talk about teacher participation. I
think as Senator Kaine just started mentioning a little bit, we
need that pipeline of those teachers, especially people
entering mid-career, but often they do not have a lot of say in
the Perkins program directly. Could you just address that point
you were talking about and maybe add about teachers?
Mr. Bates. Teacher involvement is absolutely critical. One
of the things we have done at our facility is we have reached
out to teachers and exposed them to what today's manufacturing
is.
In fact, while we have students come in and they walk
through our plant, and they are bright-eyed and excited about
the technology that we have, I have always found the facial
expressions of the teachers much more entertaining, because
they cannot believe the amount of technology that we have.
We have robotics that are moving pieces of product. We have
a lot of automation that is moving things back and forth. They
cannot believe that manufacturing is the way it is today.
That exposure to a teacher is extremely important.
We have offered summer externships for teachers to come and
work in our plant for the summer, whether they are a math
teacher, whether they are a science teacher, we have even had
English teachers come and work in Toyota facilities, to learn
what it is like to work in manufacturing so they can then go
back to their students and talk about how what they are
teaching applies in the real world.
That exposure and giving teachers that opportunity to see
what manufacturing is, is absolutely critical in their further
education and understanding.
Mr. Pocan. Great, thank you. Dr. Sullivan, I had listening
sessions last week in the district. Someone came and talked to
me about specifically the question--I was hoping you might be
able to address this or if you know, some best practices, we
have a lot of people who actually are doing gaming in our area.
It is one of our three kind of growing industries.
They said that Perkins is not always available for that,
and sometimes they are afraid that some of the things we may be
teaching with Perkins might be things that might be a little
bit maybe antiquated in a few years.
Can you just address that a little bit? I would like to be
able to get back to my constituent.
Mr. Sullivan. Sure. Thank you for the question. This is one
of the areas where I think we need to aim the Perkins' resource
at those efforts that are in emerging markets. Sometimes, that
puts you on the bleeding edge rather than the cutting edge.
I think you have to be careful that the investment is being
made in an area that is going to pay off for your communities,
for your schools, for your colleges, but imagine for a second
the critical thinking that goes on in some of the gaming
programming areas. They are certainly a benefit to the student.
If you can demonstrate that it is an emerging market, I think
it makes sense to be able to make those investments.
Mr. Pocan. Thank you. Just a general question, for anyone
in the remaining minute and a half. The point that Senator
Kaine brought up about a stigma surrounding CTE sometimes in
our society.
I have Madison, Wisconsin in my district. I have heard
stories of people are picked up in cabs from the airport by
people with Ph.D.'s in Russian literature, but I have a buddy
who got a technical degree and is working on safety and
construction sites, and he is doing extremely well for himself
in just a short amount of time coming out of technical college.
Can you address that a little bit, some ideas about how we
can help work on that issue?
Mr. Sullivan. I think we have to begin with the notion that
there is a great deal of math and science that goes on for that
welding faculty member. Imagine for a second, geometry, as an
example, that goes into angles, as someone begins to think
about how to apply two pieces of metal together, the chemistry
behind it.
We have a mindset, I think, that has to be broken to begin
to think about the academic side of what goes on in career and
technical education. The other side we mentioned a second ago
with critical thinking. There simply is not an area of
education more so than career and technical education where
critical thinking is important.
Mr. Pocan. Anyone else want to address that?
Mr. Bates. I think the stigma is unfortunately there, but
what we can do is help to educate what career and technical
education is. The science and the math that our technicians are
utilizing to program the robots, to troubleshoot the robots,
that is engineering work that is being done. It is not what
people think of career and technical education today.
Mr. Pocan. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman Kline. The gentleman yields back. Mr. Walberg?
Mr. Walberg. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to the
witnesses for being here today, and your testimonies have been
instructive. I just want to thank my colleague, Dr. Roe, for
bringing up the overtime rule. We are talking about making a
value and using our resources wisely for training, especially
in CTE, and yet we find ourselves siphoning off more
opportunities as a result of wrong-headed regulatory
impingements on the system working. Appreciate you bringing it
up.
Dr. Sullivan, I have talked with a number of employers,
including Toyota, in my district, who have told me they do not
believe that students are presented with a full picture of
their educational and career options.
You have pointed out some things about teachers coming
through site visits and being amazed with what they are seeing,
and maybe that is one of the key concerns.
As a result, they find it difficult to encourage students
to pursue CTE careers, careers that are amazingly diverse, as I
have walked through manufacturing sites, small businesses and
large alike. A diverse career field, financially rewarding,
fulfilling. In fact, some jobs that will never leave. They are
there.
If a person is willing to climb an energy pole or work on a
roof or to work in a basement, build a construction, a
machinist, too and die makers, welders. I can go on and on of
areas that are amazing with opportunity.
What role should career guidance and career awareness
activities play in promoting the value of CTE programs, and
ultimately, fulfilling careers?
Mr. Sullivan. Sure. Career guidance is certainly a critical
component, but I think it begins even before that. It is so
very important to have industry engaged from the very
beginning.
A classic example, just yesterday, in fact, JPMorgan Chase
announced an investment in the City of New Orleans. I was at
Warren Easton High School for the New Skills for Youth
initiative. Where JPMorgan Chase sees an opportunity to invest
in the people because there are specific outcomes that they are
looking for, it is indeed an investment, not a gift.
Having those students exposed to local industry early on,
be it middle school, as was pointed out a few minutes ago, I
think it is important that we not lay that burden upon
counselors only. It is important that counselors have partners
in business and industry from the beginning that not only
informs where a student may go, but it also informs the
curriculum, it informs the equipment, it informs the teaching
background that individual faculty should have.
It also ultimately leads then so students begin to think of
our institutions and our programs as an entre into a specific
industry. That is a view that I am not sure many students have
today, but we certainly have to begin to change that direction.
I think as you have industry involved with those
counselors, they have a much better opportunity to tell the
story of the career path.
Mr. Walberg. You bring up a great point there, that
comradeship of industry with education. We also have a
challenge of the peer pressure that I am seeing from parents
who think Billy and Susie down the street went to University of
Michigan, so my Tommy and Nancy have to go there as well, as
opposed to seeing the unbelievable opportunities that are
expanded beyond that, not just simply with a four year
institution but sometimes the stacking of certificates. How do
we deal with that?
Mr. Sullivan. You are absolutely correct, and I will give
you one example. As chancellor at Delgado Community College, we
would point to our allied health programs where more than one-
half of the students graduating from those health care programs
already held a Baccalaureate degree. These are students going
back to college to earn a credential that would ensure they
were able to go to work.
Over time, I think enough graduates living in basements
will help us as a Nation understand that perhaps alignment of
curriculum and alignment of programs, the work that has gone on
by Tony Carnevale and the folks at Georgetown, really sort of
aims us at major matters. How much you earn is directly related
to what skills you have. As a Nation, I think ultimately we
will get there, but we are certainly not moving as quickly as
we should.
Mr. Walberg. Mr. Bates, as the committee looks to reform
and approve this law, how can we streamline programs to ensure
Federal dollars enable students to develop the right skills to
meet the 21st century needs?
Mr. Bates. Again, I think it is important that we have
involvement with education and industry leaders to talk about
what are those skills so that we are targeting that funding to
the appropriate skills that are going to not only supply the
skilled workforce for today but that industry that understands
what the technology is going to be in the future.
By sharing that knowledge with the educational partners, we
are able to make sure that the curriculum is established that
is going to fund the future training needs as well.
Mr. Walberg. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman Kline. The gentleman yields back. Mr. Takano?
Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I certainly want to
push back a little bit on the overtime rule. I might just
mention that in 1975, over 65 percent of salaried workers in
America were entitled to overtime pay. Today, that percentage
of the workforce is down to 8 percent. It is high time that we
updated the overtime rule, and I am very, very eager to see
what the President does today.
Mr. Tse, I wanted to just congratulate you on your very
brave and courageous path.
Mr. Tse. Thank you.
Mr. Takano. Especially as an Asian American young man,
there is a tremendous amount of pressure for us to succeed in
higher education. I know you must have suffered mightily from
the expectations of your family.
You are such a great example to so many Asian American
young men and women across the country to show that not
everybody has to go to college to succeed. Indeed, I think you
probably have stackable credentials that you have plans or you
have already done so, getting your degrees in higher ed. You
have made a remarkable path, and you have shown people that
way.
We need to destigmatize the pathway for all minorities
because of the past reputation of how vocational education was
a dumping ground, and a way to put people who were ``not
qualified'' for college into programs that did not serve them
well.
We need to re-do the image of career and technical
education for all Americans, and you certainly serve as a great
example. I wanted to just take a moment to say that.
Dr. Sullivan, yesterday the Department of Education
announced that the Obama administration would make Pell grants
available to high school students who simultaneously take
college courses at 44 colleges or universities.
How can we encourage dual enrollment opportunities, and how
does the Louisiana Community and Technical College system
foster opportunities in the context of our discussion today?
Mr. Sullivan. Sure. Thank you for your question. Dual
enrollment is an absolutely critical strategy to solving the
Nation's attainment issue. The dual enrollment effort needs to
be focused, however, not simply on completion of courses, but
rather on completion of credentials, and those demand
credentials matter.
Dual enrollment has been a strategy and a focus for us in
Louisiana for a number of years now. I can tell you that the
career and technical education side has a particular bin for
those students who may not perform well in the academic areas
simply out of interest as much as anything, but we are also
seeing a large number of minority students who are enrolling in
those career and technical education fields, be it dual
enrollment, we are seeing those students complete credentials
and benefit going forward.
One of the changes that has happened for us as a Nation, I
believe, in higher education, is education is now becoming much
more iterative in nature. We talk about stackable credentials.
Many of these students are completing their first credential,
going out into the world of work, and then being able to gain
those certifications.
You heard it earlier from one of my fellow witnesses here
about the ability to come back and gain some certification that
allows you to go to that next level. Dual enrollment certainly
feeds into that iterative nature as well.
Funding for dual enrollment is an absolutely key strategy
for us as a Nation.
Mr. Takano. Thank you. Thank you. I am very focused on that
area, trying to make that happen, make our Federal funding,
whether it is Pell grants or whatever, State grants that go
into this, these funding streams for dual enrollment are
important, and we need to be able to give you the pots of money
to reduce the class size, because it is expensive education as
well.
I want to make sure I throw out a call out to Toyota and
Mr. Bates, remarkable stuff you are doing with the AMT program,
which is really maintenance, it is maintaining the machines,
but it is not the maintenance of our fathers or grandfathers'
day, sweeping floors, maintaining the place. This is about
maintaining robots and fixing robots.
Mr. Bates. Yes.
Mr. Takano. There was no Federal money involved. This was
driven by a partnership. I want to congratulate you for working
with the community college system and that community college
system working with you.
Mr. Bates. Yes. I will not say there was not any Federal
dollars. The community college was able to use some prior
Perkins' money to be able to provide for some of the equipment
and the training that was necessary for the instructors.
Mr. Takano. Thank you for clarifying that. So there was
some federal. Mr. Tse, quickly before my time runs out, I see
as low as 5th grade, students have a self-awareness of whether
they are good with their hands or not, things like that. I
would take it back from middle school all the way down to 5th
grade as far as what we do to reach younger people.
Chairman Kline. The gentleman's time has expired. Mr.
Allen?
Mr. Allen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank the
panel. This has been a very good discussion. When it comes to
reauthorizing programs, at least everywhere I go in my district
and really the State and across the country, people ask me when
are you all going to quite spending so much money, when are you
going to balance your budget.
That makes the reauthorization of these programs very
difficult, and that is why we are here today, to try to
determine where we can get the best bang for the dollars we
invest. That is what the American people expect of us.
Obviously, one of the things we have to do is grow this
economy and get people back to work, able bodied people back to
work. That will help us with our mandatory spending problem, it
will reduce that, which would lead to balancing this budget.
As a former member of the business community, I am
committed to growing the economy, and I know you have to invest
money to get a return, to grow revenues. In fact, that is why I
ran for the United States Congress.
As far as the thing that I see at least with education and
developing a skilled workforce is motivation. How do we
motivate young people to want to go and get the training and
get a good job?
One of the greatest gifts God has given me is to give
people that opportunity to get a good job, give them the
dignity and respect they deserve, and allowing them to support
their family, their church, their community, and this Nation.
So, Mr. Tse, you obviously were motivated. From your
personal testimony, what clicked in you that said hey, this is
what I want to do? Of course, obviously, you have been very
successful.
How can we apply that to those in the fields who are
experts to make sure every student, everyone, gets that
opportunity, and makes the best of the opportunity as you have?
Mr. Tse. Thank you for that question, Congressman. I
personally feel for me, at least, in my personal experience, it
was the gratification of seeing something being built, instead
of just looking through a textbook of why you need to do
something a certain way.
It was actually realization of hey, if I do it this one
way, it is going to take me longer and it is more difficult to
do, versus doing it this other way, which is--I will call it
the smarter way. It may not be the easier way, but it is the
smarter way of doing certain things.
I think that is what I needed, that was the drive or the
little push that I needed in high school to realize that hey,
college is not the only thing out there for you. I may not be
super good at getting good grades and reading out of a textbook
and learning that way, but I can certainly learn with my hands
in being able to do something like physically with my body. I
think seeing something built is one of the greatest
encouragements.
Mr. Allen. Yes, I worked my way through college as a
welder. I have always enjoyed and still enjoy that, and was a
general contractor in my business life. I, too, like to build
buildings and understand your interest in the challenges it
presents.
Obviously, HVAC work has come a long way. It is very
sophisticated this day and time.
As far as the CTE programs, students with the skills needed
in these high demand jobs, Mr. Bates, as far as students
earning these industry recognized credentials, and students
completing their programs to enter the workforce, what are the
biggest obstacles that you see?
Mr. Bates. I think the biggest obstacle, Congressman, is
again perception and awareness. Many students for whatever
reason are not aware of what is required to work in today's
manufacturing business. They make a wrong assumption that I
have to get an engineering degree in order to be successful.
What we have been able to do by reaching out to these
schools and educating teachers, counselors, and students, is to
help them understand that they do need technical training. They
do need a technical skill, but you can accomplish that debt
free, you can accomplish that locally by participating at your
local technical school or community college.
I think by educating them and helping them to understand
what is available to them, they will make the right choice for
them because they know it is available.
Mr. Allen. Good, thank you so much, and I yield back.
Chairman Kline. The gentleman yields back. Ms. Clark?
Ms. Clark. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the
panelists for being here today on this incredibly important
topic.
In Massachusetts, I just wanted to give you a little
snapshot, in the 2014-2015 school year, we had 2,800 culinary
art students, 2,700 health assistance, 2,200 automotive
technology, 2,000 studying electricity, 1,900 carpentry, 1,700
cosmetology, 1,500 marketing, and 1,400 in early education and
care, with a wait list of 5,000 high school students who could
not find an entry point.
We have a recent study out by Northeastern University
finding that Massachusetts business owners find our vo-tech
school graduates to be more job ready than their peers who went
through college prep programs.
We know how vital this is, not only to our students, but to
our economy. One of my questions is as we look at some of our
European counterparts, in particular, Switzerland, Germany,
Austria, we see these robust apprenticeship programs that we
have touched on a little bit.
Senator Kaine has offered some legislation that would give
tax credits for businesses and employers who are establishing
apprenticeship positions. Are there other things you think we
should be doing or policies to further the robust public/
private partnerships that you have already discussed?
Mr. Sullivan. Thank you for your question, and certainly
apprenticeship is a key strategy in the overall effort. I will
tell you that most recently in some work with Dow Chemical, our
Louisiana Community and Technical College systems really
formalized the apprenticeship effort.
One of the things we have learned through that process is
not only the value of apprenticeship, as we have known that for
a number of years, but also the need to sort of streamline the
processes for approval. I think that was referenced earlier in
some testimony.
That is one of the areas that I would really encourage us
to think of, how do we create apprenticeship programs' approval
processes and funding opportunities that are in a much more
streamlined kind of approach.
The other portion of this is apprenticeship is a formalized
way for us to develop an industry relationship that we probably
should have had anyway. There is an important element or
underlying factor there of business and industry relationship.
Ms. Clark. Mr. Tse, do you believe that the apprenticeship
also has a component that could help reduce some of the
residual stigma that we are seeing? Do you think that is an
important piece, if people are able to see the jobs and the
opportunities sooner and in a more concrete way?
Mr. Tse. Yes, absolutely. I feel the quicker that students
are able--the younger people are able to see that these job
openings are out there and that they can streamline their way
directly from school into employment, that is more
encouragement for them to go through these programs.
I think the quicker we can show them that, it is kind of
like the light at the end of the tunnel, as soon as we can show
them, it is more likely they would be able to succeed in those
programs and enroll even.
Ms. Clark. Great. My other question, the Perkins CTE Act
also provides supports for special populations. There is a long
list, but including individuals with disabilities, low income,
pursuing non-traditional career paths, single parents,
displaced homemakers, and English language learners.
Of the people who come through your doors, either as
trainees or recently trained employees, how many do you think
fit this special population definition, and can you tell me
about some of the support services for these students?
Particularly, I have in mind single parents. We see child care
as an incredible cost for families to bear. I wondered if any
of you had experience in that area in particular.
Mr. Sullivan. The American community college is typically
about two-thirds female, typically many of those female
students are single mothers. What we traditionally see as we
look at the special populations are a great deal of additional
services needed for child care, as you pointed out, also
different kinds of accommodations.
I think as we consider special populations, it is really
important that we not leave out the American citizen, who for
whatever reason was not able to earn a high school diploma.
Most students do not drop out of high school as a result of
academic issues. They drop out of high school for social and
personal reasons.
Where do they turn if they do not have that opportunity to
be trained and educated so they can pursue a happy life? The
American dream, as we know it.
I would just encourage us to think about expanding that
definition. The second group, there are a great number of
benefits that are available to returning veterans, but I really
think it is important that we consider returning veterans as a
component of those special populations.
Also to sort of get out of the mindset that special
populations are the traditional definition that has been in the
Perkins Act, and expanding the possibilities for roles or areas
where perhaps some of our more traditional students have not
been represented as greatly as perhaps they have in the past.
Ms. Clark. Thank you. I see my time has expired.
Chairman Kline. The gentlelady yields back. Mr. Rokita?
Mr. Rokita. I thank the chairman for the hearing, and I
appreciate everyone's testimony. I was going to start last with
this, but Dr. Sullivan, since you mentioned pursuing a happy
life, i.e. the pursuit of happiness, let me start there.
What concerns me most about career and technical
education--by the way, I am a supporter. In the subcommittee I
lead, we have hearings around it and all that. My last direct
interaction with career and technical education was back in the
80s. From then to now, I worried about the ability to
critically think, and if that is being taught, right?
If you are going to run a free Republic, we need engaged
citizenry who can question our government, decipher the role
between government and the individual, the Federal Government
and State governemtn, on and on.
I am not talking about partisan politics. I am not even
talking about civics courses. The ability to critically engage
and think in order to maintain a free society.
How does CTE programs do that in the here and now?
Mr. Sullivan. Thank you for your question. I think that is
an absolutely vital part of the whole career and technical
education landscape.
If you were to look across the industry based
certifications that are approved out there, in any given field,
I think you will find woven in every single one of those
industry based credentials a component of critical thinking.
It is the foundation of nearly every aspect, be it
manufacturing, be it HVAC, construction, nearly any of the
fields you can think of, even the medical fields.
One of the most important facets of teaching any of the
medical programs is that ability to critically think about what
is going on with our patients.
Mr. Rokita. Does it translate into the broader social --
Mr. Sullivan. There is no question it translates into the
broader social, and also the thing that I think is really
important is it provides a foundation upon which these students
can continue their education and pursue advanced degrees.
That ability to critically think, our faculty say this to
us regularly, they come to us and say a student who has already
earned college credit and earned a credential and has been out
in the workforce and understands the issues of day to day
interactions and problem solving, is a better student in the
classroom.
Mr. Rokita. That is my follow up to Mr. Tse. I call these
on ramps and off ramps, this idea that you might start out in
HVAC technical ed, but if underneath it all you really are the
guy to own your own HVAC company? What if you really are after
all the entrepreneur and you want to pursue those skills?
Were you worried at all or do you think that career and
technical education could cut off some things so you do not
have an on ramp back to a more traditional education or path
that would lead you to be an owner or project manager like
yourself or something like that?
Mr. Tse. I was a little concerned at first when I was
initially enrolled into the program, thinking that I would
pretty much spend the rest of my days working in the field.
Mr. Rokita. Which is fine for some.
Mr. Tse. Right, which is perfectly fine.
Mr. Rokita. Maybe for many.
Mr. Tse. After I had started my apprenticeship program and
learned more about how my apprenticeship program credits would
be able to transfer into college credits and things like that,
it kind of educated me and told me there were more paths after
working in the field, that I could eventually own my own
business if I wanted to.
Mr. Rokita. You did not feel any paths cut off from
yourself?
Mr. Tse. No, sir.
Mr. Rokita. Great. Thank you very much. Mr. Bates, talking
about my subcommittee with great members on it, we held a
hearing where we heard about the need for meaningful engagement
among the business community in designing effective CTE
programs and helping students explore careers available.
I have toured several programs. Can you please list some of
the equipment and training that Perkins should make eligible,
especially the equipment? Is there some kind of eligible use
for Perkins' money that would be advisable at this point?
Mr. Bates. Yes. We have used Perkins' money in our local
community college to purchase some of the training and
equipment that is used in our lab. Hydraulic trainers,
pneumatic trainers, welding simulators and welding equipment
are all necessary for the proper training.
Mr. Rokita. Anything we are missing?
Mr. Bates. At this time, I am not aware of anything, no.
Mr. Rokita. Okay. Keeping with you, Mr. Bates, you describe
in your testimony how the AMT program expanded from one
partnership between the plant and a college, to now
approximately 400 students partnered with 160 companies.
Given the rapid growth of the program, how have you
preserved the quality? Any growing pains or anything?
Mr. Bates. There is always growing pains in any situation.
I think the one way that we have been able to preserve the
quality of the curriculum is that we continue to be involved.
We are regularly meeting with our local community college,
not only an annual basis, but we have quarterly instructions
with our maintenance leaders at our local plants. They are
talking and sitting down with the local education leaders and
understanding what the technology is, making sure we have the
right equipment, and making sure the curriculum is teaching
what is necessary for the future.
Mr. Rokita. So, basic communication and leadership?
Mr. Bates. Absolutely.
Mr. Rokita. Thank you, all three of you, for your
leadership. I yield.
Chairman Kline. The gentleman yields back. Mrs. Davis, you
are recognized.
Mrs. Davis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really do appreciate
the hearing today. I think it reminds us there is a lot of work
to be done out there, but on the other hand, there are best
practices around the country, and I think often the problem is
how do you scale that, and how do you engage, when you at
reauthorizations, what is it that is not necessarily
prescriptive but guides school districts, guides States
throughout the country to do something that really has great
merit down the line.
A lot of great comments, really, your responses have been
wonderful. Employability skills. We have talked a lot about
technical skills.
We know that employability skills are very, very important
in how people are able to relate to one another in the
workplace as well as to the task in front of them.
Without again being prescriptive because I know people push
back on those kinds of things, what do you think is critical in
the reauthorization language that speaks to the issue of
employability? We sometimes call them social emotional skills.
How do you have the confidence often to even take risks and to
talk about what the options are?
How do you talk through that? It is communication, but it
is a lot of things. Do you have some thoughts about that?
Mr. Sullivan. The employability skills component is one
that we have spent a great deal of time in Louisiana looking
at, and one of the things we have determined is the most
important or the biggest step that we could take is to have the
actual employers in front of classrooms teaching employability
skills.
After all, they are the very same people that will be
interviewing them, that will be reviewing their resumes and
materials, and that will also be working with them on a daily
basis to determine whether they can continue with the
organization.
Having that partnership there in a real and substantive
way, having them in the classroom interfacing with students is
certainly important.
Mrs. Davis. Yes. At what point do you think that is a good
idea?
Mr. Sullivan. As early in the program as possible. One of
the things that we have also been able to do is place in
certain programs capstone courses, so that industry has an
opportunity not only to come in and teach employability skills
but you can also bet they are doing a little bit of work trying
to determine which of those students they want to hire first.
One great example, a partner of ours has made substantial
investments in Louisiana, particularly around the welding
program area, but they have also been really valuable to us in
teaching our students employability skills.
Mrs. Davis. Mr. Bates, did you have a comment?
Mr. Bates. Yes. I think those employment skills are
absolutely essential, and as Dr. Sullivan mentioned, it needs
to happen from the very beginning. In our AMT programs, before
they even start their technical questions, they are going
through what is it to be a professional in the workplace.
They are learning about what an employer expects from their
team members. They are learning about the importance of
punctuality. They are learning about the importance of asking
good questions. They are learning about the importance of being
dressed appropriately for the workplace.
We teach that prior to the program even beginning, and the
expectation is the students will not only be that way in their
cooperative work experience, but they are also going to act
that way in the classroom. The professors are expecting that as
well in the classroom.
Mrs. Davis. Should a lot of that be called out in
legislation or do you think employability skills is a catch-all
phrase that people can respond to?
Mr. Bates. I think employment skills or employability
skills, most educators and industry people understand what that
means. I think it is important to encourage that in any type of
legislation.
Mrs. Davis. One of the other issues that we have talked
about is teaching the teachers. I know that it makes so much
difference when a company, for example, has a program for young
people. We have one for middle school, Qualcomm does this in
San Diego. The key is really that they engage the teachers
early, months in advance, before the students come, and then
the teachers participate, and then they are able to do it
afterwards.
That is unusual, I think. It is great. How do you see us
trying to incorporate that into whether it is grant programs
that perhaps companies can engage in? Obviously, Toyota does it
with small businesses. How would you scale that? How would you
find a way that we engage the teachers early and then they are
able to continue to have the enthusiasm for the programs that
the students have done?
Mr. Sullivan. In Louisiana, we have a program every summer
that we refer to as ``Super Summer Institute,'' where we bring
together faculty members from all over Louisiana to earn the
next level certification, to learn that next skill set.
One of the tandem pieces of that is to be able to partner
those faculty with industry partners so they have an experience
beforehand and after the certification is earned. It gives
perspective, I think, to what they are learning, and to the
certification they are earning.
Mrs. Davis. Yes.
Chairman Kline. The gentlelady's time has expired. I want
to welcome Mr. Langevin to our hearing, and without objection,
he will be allowed to ask questions of our witnesses following
questioning from our committee members, and we still have a
couple of those left. Mr. Byrne, you are recognized.
Mr. Byrne. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Sullivan, I am the
former chancellor for Postsecondary Education, State of
Alabama, former chairman of the State Workforce Planning
Council. I know what you do, and thank you for what you do. It
is hard work. I was also on the state school board for eight
years, so I saw CTE and Perkins on both sides, K-12 and
postsecondary.
One of the things that I have seen up here in Washington is
there are plenty of things we are doing up here that we do not
do very well and we waste money on. This is not one of them. I
am sure we can do it better. That is partly what this is all
about, to learn how we can do it better, how we can do it
better so you can do your job better. We do not train anybody
here. You do. We need to make sure we are giving you everything
we possibly can to help you train people.
We treat poor people in America like they have some sort of
an incurable disease, there is no way to lift them out of
poverty. We just feed them a bunch of money to take care of the
symptoms of poverty, instead of saying we can let you out of
poverty, and what you do every day is lift people out of
poverty.
Being from Alabama and Louisiana, I know what you are
doing. I call it magic. You take somebody, probably the first
person in their family that has ever done anything in the
postsecondary environment, you take them from having no
employable skill to having an employable skill, they go from
being somebody with nothing to being somebody.
And that is something we ought to be all about here in
government and in Washington. Sometimes we get all gummed up in
other things and miss that very important point.
We did something we called ``dual enrollment,'' where we
had kids in high schools, public high schools, people dually
enrolled in a two year college. Literally, they could graduate
from high school and in the same month get their--if it was an
one year welding certificate, the certificate, or get an
associate's degree in a high demand field, and that seemed to
work for us.
But, we struggled getting people interested in technical
education because we told everybody you got to go get a four
year Bachelor's degree in order to be successful. Mr. Tse is an
example of where that is just not true.
Mr. Tse, I wanted to ask you a question. I know you were
thinking, there he was talking to Dr. Sullivan and all of a
sudden he asks me a question. How far back should we start with
young people in school, I am talking about before they get to a
postsecondary environment, how far should we go back? Before
high school?
Mr. Tse. As I mentioned before, I think as early as
possible.
Mr. Byrne. Give me like--
Mr. Tse. I think middle school is a good start.
Mr. Byrne. Middle school. Like 7th grade? As early as that?
Mr. Tse. Yes, as early as that. I think at that point
people begin to--I think you can kind of see how a student or a
young kid is doing academically at that point, and also look at
what his interests or, his or her interests are. I think you
should be able to open up those doors for them to explore and
decide for themselves what they want to do in terms of higher
education, whether it is going through a CTE program or going
to college. I think that is a starting point.
Mr. Byrne. You are in the construction field, is that
right? HVAC?
Mr. Tse. Correct, which is directly related to
construction.
Mr. Byrne. We probably could not teach 7th graders all the
skills required by regulatory law to do everything in HVAC, but
we could start them with some more basic type construction
general skills, I guess?
Mr. Tse. Sure.
Mr. Byrne. I would think that would apply to some other
areas, do you not think, Dr. Sullivan, that we could branch out
to?
Mr. Sullivan. Absolutely. You mentioned dual enrollment
opportunities. By the way, commencement, this season of
commencement that it is as close to a religious experience as
you can have.
Mr. Byrne. It really is.
Mr. Sullivan. You have the opportunity to go back to your
district and experience commencement. It is certainly
important. I do think as we think about dual enrollment and we
think about how far to go back into the curriculum, that just
very basic career exploration, it is so very important.
I have daughters at home, and I can tell you, at 6th grade,
7th grade, 8th grade, so very important that they understand
what careers are available to them.
Mr. Byrne. You know, I had Associate degree nursing
programs, and I could not figure out why we had a high
attrition rate, so I brought the nursing deans in and I said
what is the deal here, we have high demand for the nurses, got
a big waiting list, yet we are not succeeding. They said too
many of the nursing students were coming into the program with
inadequate levels of science preparation in high school. So
they couldn't hack the rather significant amount of science
that these nurses and are we seeing that in other fields as
well, Dr. Sullivan?
Mr. Sullivan. I think it sort of hints at the question in
this national discussion that we have around student success,
and I think we spent far too much time thinking about how we
push more students through a program, and far too little time
thinking about the economic pull that would pull people through
programs, if we offer the programs that have the appropriate
amount of economic pull in the marketplace.
I think of our process technology programs. These are the
folks who operate facilities up and down the river in the State
of Louisiana, so important to our economy. We do not have a
completion problem in those programs because those folks are
ending those programs earning $60,000 to $65,000 a year in the
very first year.
I think our focus is probably much more well placed if we
think about program alignment and offering the correct programs
in the market.
Mr. Byrne. Great advice. Thank you, appreciate you being
here. I yield back.
Chairman Kline. The gentleman yields back. Mr. DeSaulnier,
you are recognized.
Mr. Desaulnier. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It really is a
pleasure to be here and hear the consensus in the sense of
urgency.
When we see great programs, as some of my colleagues have
talked about, it is sort of spiritual issues, as you mentioned
Dr. Sullivan. Programs in my district, many people do not
realize that in the Bay Area, we do still have industry, and in
the east bay we have significant industry, insomuch that we
frequently hear from our major employers like Chevron, and
Shell, and Dow, that they have jobs that they cannot fill
because there are not enough qualified young people.
So, we have tried to create and we have successfully
created wonderful career academies. There is nothing like going
into a disadvantaged community, a high school, and see 25 to 30
kids and a message that says to the other 1,000 kids that there
is a career out there where they can be an electrician or
member of the UA, go out there and be a welder and make $65,000
to $75,000 a year, particularly in a high cost area.
So, that is wonderful. We have great programs. But, the
balance, Dr. Sullivan, you got to this in your initial comments
about proper oversight and performance, I think is where we
sometimes struggle.
The proper role for the Federal Government, and I do not
disagree we should give more discretion to States and local
government, but having been in the legislature and having been
in the middle of a very difficult battle between--I remember
private industry councils, and currently workforce investment
boards, where the Chamber of Commerce for the State and the
labor fed one of the most important pieces of legislation, was
requiring workforce investment boards to actually have a
minimum amount of their budget go to career, tech, and
training.
We had a heck of a fight because there are a lot of
fiefdoms when the Federal Government, in my view, just
advocates its role--so this goes to the balance, it is not
saying we should be overly strict, but somewhere in there, Dr.
Sullivan, it strikes me you have some experience, holding
people accountable so they do not feel as if they can do
whatever they want with the money around performance standards,
and what the Federal Government's role is to make sure that's
done.
Mr. Sullivan. Great question. This is one of the areas that
we are most proud of in Louisiana that we done a great deal of
work. We have been able to leverage the occupational forecast
that our state completes every two years, and begins a six year
look outward as to what the occupational forecast is by
occupation.
Once we had that data, we were then able to tier and base
that data depending upon demand, so now our work is about
funding the occupations and the programs that feed the
occupations where there is greatest demand.
It seems like a relatively simple concept. It can be
difficult because obviously there are those programs that will
become not as prevalent in the demand market, and yet they are
programs that have been traditional programs in institutions.
We have to be willing to make the hard decisions. When we
talked earlier about the difficulty of spending, spending is
perhaps a problem, but as was pointed out here, it is not a
problem as it relates to Perkins because we are investing in
people. We have to ensure that those people who are completing
those programs are actually going to be able to earn the jobs
that get them to that vision or dream they have for themselves.
Mr. Desaulnier. Mr. Bates, I sometimes hear from the
private sector of sort of the cultural struggle of making sure
the money is spent right, so in getting these partnerships
right, getting the public agencies to work with private
agencies.
Do you have any sort of insights as to what makes your
program work and what would add value?
Mr. Bates. Well, I think the way we are making it work is
that we are involved from the very beginning, that we have good
communication between the various partners, and we have good
communication with our local education provider. That's been
critical.
It is not an easy task. It required a lot of people willing
to say we have to look at the bigger picture of how we can
provide a very robust program for our community so we can then
have the future workforce that is necessary.
We have had to give up a little turf at times for the
benefit of making sure that the program can be successful.
Mr. Desaulnier. Mr. Tse, I loved your testimony. As you
were growing up and going through these decision making
thresholds, it strikes me that a lot of it is just the stigma.
Kids are led to believe that they are not going to be
successful unless they become a doctor or lawyer, go to a four
year school.
Could you speak a little bit more to that and your personal
journey in overcoming that?
Mr. Tse. So yeah. In general, I think your parents play one
of the biggest parts of the stigma, because even today, I think
if we ask ourselves honestly. I think that still persists in
these conversations with children growing up, you should be
going to a four year college.
I certainly would not be teaching my kid that in the
future, but I think that is step one, all the parents that are
basically guiding all their kids growing up, they should be the
first ones to provide them the opportunity and encouragement to
go and learn something outside of going to a four year college.
Chairman Kline. The gentleman's time has expired. Mr.
Grothman?
Mr. Grothman. First of all, just a general comment. I
disagree a little bit with one of the comments made by one of
the people questioned before. I do not think in America we ever
remotely give up on poor people. We go out of the way to offer
many programs to poor people that quite frankly middle class
people do not have. If you want to start at the bottom, America
is the place to succeed.
I want to come back and agree with largely what you guys
have said. My district has more manufacturing jobs in it than
anywhere else in the country, and probably the biggest
challenge my employers face is finding people to work. There
are so many jobs out there which can't be filled.
My first question is for Mr. Sullivan, Dr. Sullivan. I
recently had some tradesmen in my office, and they talked about
all the people going back to their apprentice training at 26,
27, 28, who previously had a four year degree. I also talked to
my local tech schools, you find people going back to tech
school after they already have a four year degree.
Do you find that is true in your area as well?
Mr. Sullivan. Absolutely, it is true. In fact, we have
begun programs that specifically target that population at
SOWELA Technical Community College in the southwest part of the
State of Louisiana in response to a demand or need for more
workforce from Sasol, the large partner that located there.
We were able to go out and find those people who had
completed a Baccalaureate degree, help them finish a process
technology program in a matter of 16 weeks, really able to
answer an immediate market demand, and also help someone who
had earned a Baccalaureate degree to earn a great living for
their families.
Mr. Grothman. Do you therefore feel we have too many people
going to four year college in this country?
Mr. Sullivan. I do not know that we can ever say there are
too many people pursuing education, but I can tell you that we
do have an alignment problem in this country. We certainly need
to begin to think more in terms of what value proposition we
are able to bring to our students, and also I think the great
equalizer in this, as pointed out a few minutes ago, is having
industry involved in those decisions about what programs we are
funding.
Mr. Grothman. The point is to me fairly obviously, if I
have some poor kid who is taken in by a fancy brochure and
graduates with an undergrad degree with $50,000 in debt, and
then he is going to get his tech school degree or
apprenticeship at age 26 or 27, it would seem to me obvious
that he made a mistake both time-wise and cost-wise going to a
four year, correct?
Mr. Sullivan. Absolutely. Mom and dad would probably agree
as well.
Mr. Grothman. Right. If that is so, do you think it would
be a good idea--one of the problems we have around here is we
are very in debt, over $19 trillion in debt. You are going to
ask this program be reauthorized. Do you think it would be a
good idea to maybe take money away from say the Pell grants
going through the traditional four years and find the money to
continue your program there?
Mr. Sullivan. Certainly. I certainly believe there are
better ways to spend the Pell dollar, and that is certainly a
discussion we look forward to engaging in around the Higher
Education Act discussion at the appropriate time.
As it relates to the Perkins' reauthorization, I do think
there are opportunities here to extend that alignment question,
which I think ultimately will drive some of the changes that
you are describing.
Mr. Grothman. Another question. You mentioned the wonderful
things that are going on in Louisiana with your program. One of
the frustrations I have here is too many of my colleagues think
because something that is a good idea is a Federal problem.
Okay? Obviously, we have a Federal program here.
You say you are doing a good job in Louisiana, but you also
mentioned several changes you want to have towards our program.
It would seem to me easier to get those changes through the
Louisiana legislature than asking Congress to do it. Don't you
feel we may be better insofar as we have to put more money in
these sorts of programs that it came from the State rather than
the Federal Government?
Mr. Sullivan. Certainly there are those programs in the
State of Louisiana, and I am sure in other States, where we are
funding current technical education. We have something referred
to as the ``Rapid Response Fund'' in Louisiana, the ``Wise
Fund'', and a number of others, where we are targeting those
resources at programs exactly like Perkins.
Instead of an either/or, I think it is most appropriately a
balanced approach, State investment, as well as Federal
investment.
Mr. Grothman. As you mentioned, with the Perkins' grants
come certain strings. Okay? So you have to send the money to us
from Louisiana, then send it back to Louisiana with strings and
paperwork involved. Wouldn't it be preferable insofar as you
want more money just to get it straight from the State of
Louisiana than asking the Federal Government to give you the
money?
Mr. Sullivan. Perhaps it would. I think the most important
part is to remain focused on the fact that we need investments
in career and technical education programs because the long-
term impact, as you pointed out, as we were talking about
people in poverty, is to invest in those folks to give them the
opportunity to pull themselves out of poverty.
Mr. Grothman. Thank you.
Chairman Kline. The gentleman's time has expired. Mr.
Polis, you are recognized.
Mr. Polis. Thank you. My first question is for Mr. Bates.
In my district, St Vrain Valley School District is opening a
pathways and technology early college or PTECH school. PTECH
allows students to earn their high school diploma and an
associate's degree in a STEM field in six years. And PTECH for
instance is a partnership between the school district, the St
Vrain Community College, and IBM.
Can you talk more about the role of employers like IBM or
Toyota in Perkins, and how schools like PTECH can be developed
to give students STEM skills that can be applied at multiple
companies meeting workforce needs?
Mr. Bates. Yes, thank you, Congressman. I think industry
can be involved first and foremost by educating educators what
the technology is out there, what technology is necessary for
the future workforce. So that's one area that we can provide.
We can let educators understand the type of technology and the
type of education that is important for the future.
The other way I think industry can be involved in, is
helping to fund and provide equipment for that technology.
Toyota has throughout the country donated not only
manufacturing equipment but we have also donated automobiles to
various technical schools so that students can have the state-
of-the-art equipment to be able to work on.
I also know there have been other local manufacturers in my
community who have donated welding equipment for the students
to work on.
Employers have to be involved in helping to ensure that the
technology that is being taught is state-of-the-art and it is
current, helping develop the curriculum, and also be able to
provide funding to help purchase equipment and other things for
them to be successful in their work.
Mr. Polis. Dr. Sullivan, in my district in Colorado, high
schools and community colleges have built relationships
together that give students a chance to take advantage of high
quality CTE programs. Can you talk about the importance of dual
and concurrent enrollment programs in this partnership and at
the Federal level what we can do to encourage these kinds of
programs?
Mr. Sullivan. Absolutely. Certainly, Colorado has been a
leader in that effort, and we appreciate the example you have
established.
As I mentioned before, this is that season of commencement,
and over this past week, we have had numerous examples of
students who not only earned a high school diploma but also
earned a credential in industrial maintenance technology and is
looking at a career working right there in the Chalmette area
of Louisiana working for any number of different companies.
Phillips 66, Dominos Sugar, Community Coffee, a whole range of
organizations there that are looking for those specific skill
sets.
The career and technical education opportunities, you have
to remember many of these students, as much as we may want to
believe they are listening to guidance counselors, are
listening to their colleagues and fellow students more so than
they are guidance counselors.
The word of mouth and the example that these students set
for one another is really an important component for us to
think about as we establish policy.
Mr. Polis. Can you briefly address how greater economies of
scale and better services can be offered at a better cost to
school districts through partnering with community colleges
versus trying to run all these programs themselves?
Mr. Sullivan. The school accountability movement in this
Nation has probably made career and technical education more
difficult in this environment. As we begin to think about how
we scale, community colleges present unique opportunities, I
believe, because they are the institutions that are aware of
and involved in local labor market demands, but in addition to
that, they are also the entities that are the connectedness
between the secondary arena as well as the universities, and
present unique opportunities, I think, to do exactly what you
are describing in terms of scale.
Mr. Polis. Thank you. For any of you, what are some of the
more innovative CTE programs across the country that you have
seen that you want to share with our committee?
Mr. Bates. I think our program that we have across the
country has been recognized by Jennifer McNelly of the
Manufacturing Institute as being the premiere associate's
degree in industrial maintenance across the country.
I think our program is a great example. The great thing
about our program is it not just benefits Toyota, but it
benefits all manufacturers who want to be a part of it.
Mr. Polis. Has anybody seen any effective CTE programs for
like call centers or customer service, anything like that? No?
That would be another area that I think would be a good
opportunity for kids to be able to graduate high school with a
marketable degree. There is a lot of growth in that sector,
including one of the largest call center companies based in my
district in Colorado.
I am happy to yield back.
Chairman Kline. The gentleman yields back. Mr. Langevin,
you are recognized for 5 minutes. It is good to see you here,
Jim.
Mr. Langevin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you
and Ranking Member Scott and Acting Ranking Member Fudge for
the invitation to join you and the ability to participate in
this hearing on an issue that is really near and dear to my
heart when we talk about reauthorizing Perkins.
I also want to thank my Republican co-chairman of the CTE
Caucus, a distinguished member of this committee, Congressman
GT Thompson. He and I have been great partners in this effort,
and he has been a steadfast partner again and a strong advocate
for strengthening our workforce training programs.
Thank you, witnesses, for very impressive testimony. I have
enjoyed sitting in on this hearing.
If I could start, Mr. Bates, one of the biggest challenges
we have seen in my home State of Rhode Island is getting
companies to offer apprenticeships that also allow students to
pursue their studies at a community college.
What changes did you need to make that allowed you to on
board these students without a disruption to your production
process?
Mr. Bates. Well, one thing we had to do, Congressman, in
our program is we had to provide them with the work experience
that would also allow them to be able to go to school. At our
facility, we rotate our schedules, which means every two weeks
our team members are changing their schedules. That would not
be feasible for our coop students.
We had to work with them and be able to make sure they were
able to have the time necessary to go two days a week to their
schooling and be able to have the training the other three days
on day shift, and be able to get the applied training they
needed.
We had to work with our existing maintenance workforce to
be able to make sure they always had a mentor, no matter who
was on shift with them, they always had a mentor that they
could work with, to teach them, to make sure that they were
being safe, and they were able to provide guidance to them.
It does require some requirements for the manufacturer to
change how they are able to do the work for those students, but
if you think about it, this is an investment in their future
but it is also an investment in our future.
I need those students in three to five years to be able to
come into the workforce and to provide a valuable skill to my
plant. We have to recognize that, so we need to make sure that
we are providing that opportunity for them to get the skills
and the education necessary so that when they graduate, they
are able to then come into the workplace and provide the skill
that I am looking for.
Mr. Langevin. Thank you. Dr. Sullivan, I have a question
for you about coordination between educators and employers. I
know we have kind of touched on this a little bit throughout
the hearing in different ways. At a CTE Caucus field hearing in
Rhode Island, we were told that colleges need to move at the
speed of business if they want to authorize successful
apprenticeship programs.
What enables a college to effectively tailor the classes to
in demand skills?
Mr. Sullivan. Thank you for the question. I think it really
begins very simply on the front-end with listening, by simply
asking industry the question what is it that you are looking
for and how should we deliver it, and listening when industry
responds.
The traditional academic calendar probably is out the
window as we just heard Mr. Bates describe a second ago,
because we have to begin to think about how we deliver
instruction on time and in the right place and of the right
quality and type to ensure that those employees or those
apprenticeship students as they complete are actually the
product that industry is looking for.
Listening would be first and foremost. Secondly, having the
willingness to be flexible and to make adjustments to what we
think of as being traditional in our institutions, and instead
remember that we are in the business of trying to help our
students become employed, and because that is our business, we
have to be flexible, be it with schedule, be it with content,
but at the same time, knowing that industry is there because
there is an investment that they are making in our
institutions. We have to be willing to reciprocate.
Mr. Langevin. It is a partnership, I agree. Thank you. For
Mr. Tse, in your testimony, you note that it was a family
member who suggested you pursue a skill trade. What could the
school district have done to encourage more students to think
about a similar path? Did you encounter any barriers preventing
you from pursuing a skill trade as a viable option for you and
your peers? I know we touched on that just a minute ago in a
way. Anything else you want to expand upon in that respect?
Mr. Tse. I feel that in general--thankfully, my uncle who
happened to be a roofer, kind of persuaded me to go and start
looking into CTE programs that was available to me. I feel that
schools could do a better job at kind of advertising--maybe not
advertising--promoting that these programs exist instead of me
having to go outreach to them in finding this program through
my guidance counselor.
I think there should have been something out there, kind of
like a Career Day almost, for teachers and counselors to come
through with their students, and show them that hey, by the
way, these programs are available to you. That could easily
spark some interest in younger kids.
Chairman Kline. The gentleman's time has expired.
Mr. Langevin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Kline. It looks like all members have had a chance
to engage in the discussion. Let me yield to Ms. Fudge for any
closing remarks she might have.
Ms. Fudge. Thank you very much, and thank all of you for
being here today. It has been a great hearing. I think both
sides of the aisle were pleased with the testimony that we have
received, and I thank you all.
Mr. Chairman, I would request that we enter into the record
a letter from the National Education Association in support of
reauthorization, as well as recommendations for our
consideration.
Chairman Kline. Without objection.
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Ms. Fudge. Thank you. Just in closing, I would say that
this is a very timely hearing. I am certainly hopeful that
having heard the testimony today as well as the comments and
questions from my colleagues that we can move forward to get
this reauthorization done this year.
I don't see that there is any impediment to doing it, and I
am certainly hopeful that we will make it happen this year, and
I thank you, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Kline. I thank the gentlelady. I want to thank the
witnesses, really compelling stories, great witnesses.
I was talking to Ms. Fudge a little bit here about how many
of my colleagues and how many of you mentioned ``welding.'' I
flashed back to 8th grade shop when I ostensibly learned
welding, and I am thinking gosh, if I still had that skill,
then I could probably have a real job. It is amazing. If you
can weld, you can work anywhere.
Mr. Langevin mentioned the Caucus where someone said the
programs and schools have to work at the speed of business. I
think that is something that we are going to be very mindful of
as we go forward here to remove any impediments that might be
there so that the instruction can move at that speed.
The need is out there, and you are still teaching, I don't
know, something that is no longer of any use. I almost said
``welding.'' I just made the point that is of great use today.
And so, we are excited about the prospect of reauthorizing
this. I think this is one of those areas where we should have
pretty good bipartisan agreement.
Your testimony today and your involvement in the discussion
is very helpful. Again, I thank you very much, and there being
no further business, the committee stands adjourned.
[Questions submitted for the record and their responses
follow:]
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[Whereupon, at 12:17 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
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