[Senate Hearing 113-537]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 113-537
PROTECTING OUR NORTHERN BORDER:
ENHANCING COLLABORATION AND BUILDING LOCAL PARTNERSHIPS
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HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE EFFICIENCY AND
EFFECTIVENESS OF FEDERAL PROGRAMS AND THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE
of the
COMMITTEE ON
HOMELAND SECURITY AND
GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
FIELD HEARING IN HAVRE, MONTANA
__________
JULY 12, 2013
__________
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov
Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security
and Governmental Affairs
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
82-576 PDF WASHINGTON : 2015
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Washington, DC 20402-0001
COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware Chairman
CARL LEVIN, Michigan TOM COBURN, Oklahoma
MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas JOHN McCAIN, Arizona
MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin
CLAIRE McCASKILL, Missouri ROB PORTMAN, Ohio
JON TESTER, Montana RAND PAUL, Kentucky
MARK BEGICH, Alaska MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming
TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin KELLY AYOTTE, New Hampshire
HEIDI HEIKAMP, North Dakota
Richard J. Kessler, Staff Director
John P. Kilvington, Deputy Staff Director
Keith B. Ashdown, Minority Staff Director
Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk
Lauren Corcoran, Hearing Clerk
SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE EFFICIENCY AND EFFECTIVENESS OF FEDERAL PROGRAMS
AND THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE
JON TESTER, Montana, Chairman
MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas ROB PORTMAN, Ohio
CLAIRE McCASKILL, Missouri RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin
MARK BEGICH, Alaska RAND PAUL, Kentucky
TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming
HEIDI HEITKAMP, North Dakota
Tony McClain, Majority Staff Director
Brent Bombach, Minority Staff Director
Kelsey Stroud, Chief Clerk
C O N T E N T S
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Opening statement:
Page
Senator Tester............................................... 1
Congressman Daines........................................... 2
WITNESSES
Friday, July 12, 2013
Don Brostrom, Sheriff of Hill County, Montana.................... 3
Nathan Burr, Havre Sector Vice President and U.S. Border Patrol
Agent, National Border Patrol Council.......................... 5
Debbie Vandeberg, Executive Director, Havre Chamber of Commerce.. 7
Kumar C. Kibble, Special Agent in Charge, Denver, U.S.
Immigrations and Customs Enforcement........................... 16
Christopher Richards, Havre Sector Chief Patrol Agent............ 17
Robert Desrosier, Homeland Security Director, Blackfeet Nation... 19
Alphabetical List of Witnesses
Brostrom, Don:
Testimony.................................................... 3
Prepared statement........................................... 29
Burr, Nathan:
Testimony.................................................... 5
Prepared statement........................................... 31
Desrosier, Robert:
Testimony.................................................... 19
Kibble, Kumar C.:
Testimony.................................................... 16
Prepared statement........................................... 37
Richards, Christopher:
Testimony.................................................... 17
Vandeberg, Debbie:
Testimony.................................................... 7
Prepared statement........................................... 34
PROTECTING OUR NORTHERN BORDER:
ENHANCING COLLABORATION AND BUILDING LOCAL PARTNERSHIPS
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FRIDAY, JULY 12, 2013
U.S. Senate,
Subcommittee on the Efficiency and Effectiveness of
Federal Programs and the Federal Workforce,
of the Committee on Homeland Security
and Governmental Affairs,
Washington, DC.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR TESTER
Senator Tester. I would call to order this hearing of the
U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security, Subcommittee on
Efficiency and Effectiveness of the Federal Programs and the
Federal WorkForce. This afternoon's hearing is entitled
Protecting Our Northern border: Enhancing, Collaboration, and
Building Local Partnerships.
And I want to thank my colleague Congressman Steve Daines,
as well as his staff, for their contribution to this hearing. I
want to thank our witnesses for joining us here today and for
their ongoing work on behalf of our Nation and behalf of our
communities here in Montana.
When the topic of border security arises in Washington, DC,
it is the Southwest border that gets most of the attention.
Well, like most folks in this room, I happen to live within 100
miles of the Northern border and have my entire life. And we
will continue doing all that we can to ensure that the needs up
here are addressed when we start talking about border security.
After all our Northern border with Canada is the longest shared
border in the world, some 5,500 miles, including 545 miles in
this State alone.
And I do not need to tell you that, when patrolling in an
area that expansive, manpower is an answer, but it is not the
only answer. It is about deployment of effective technologies.
It is about Federal, State, local and Canadian partners working
closely and collaboratively. And today we would like to discuss
some of the things that we are doing right, and we would like
to identify some of our opportunities to improve the things
that we can do better.
After all this is just not a security issue. It is an
economic issue. It is a jobs issue. And I know how much cross-
border commerce means to our State and especially to this
community of Havre. There's certainly a way to promote smart
and effective border security without compromising economic
opportunity.
So with that I would like to turn it over to my colleague
Congressman Steve Daines for his opening statement. Steve.
OPENING STATEMENT OF CONGRESSMAN DAINES
Congressman Daines. Thanks, Jon. And I do want to thank
Senator Tester and his staff and the Senate Homeland Security
and Government Affairs Committee for holding this hearing in
Havre and inviting me to participate. In fact, when Cindy and I
were married 27 years ago, my best man was a Havre Blue Pony.
So it is nice to have some connection here to the community of
Havre.
Let me just say this, I very much enjoyed working with Jon
Tester and Max Baucus back in Washington, as the three of us
who represent this State, this great State back in D.C. And
unfortunately Washington is described more by gridlock and
partisanship. And it is nice to be back home today with Senator
Tester, working together on issues that matter most to
Montanans.
With more than 500 miles of border with Canada, I think it
is 545 to be exact, I believe it is very important to assess
the current effort to secure the Northern border here in
Montana and across our country. I also serve on the Homeland
Security Committee on the House side, and so certainly both Jon
and I get to have a voice on these issues as we represent our
State back in DC. As Jon mentioned, it is critical to our
national security and our economy that we are effective in
doing so.
And as we all hear the Southern border receives most of the
attention. However, it is important to remember that the
Northern border is as much of a threat to security as the
Southern border. For example, I had a briefing yesterday in
Washington. According to the Federal Bureau of Investigations
(FBI) terrorist screening databases, the Northern border has
received five times as many individuals with potential links
with terrorism as compared to the Southern border. Several of
these so-called hits in the FBI database involved Montana
border crossings. In order to truly secure the borders, we need
to make sure that the Northern border is as much of a priority
as the Southern border.
At a House Homeland Security Committee meeting that I had
back in Washington on Wednesday, we were discussing the Boston
marathon bombings. In fact, we had the distinguished privilege
of Mayor Rudy Giuliani coming and testifying. And certainly
remember the events of September 11, 2001, and the role that
Mayor Giuliani played. He made an interesting observation. He
said this: The United States has 12,000 FBI agents, but there
are over 800,000 State and local law enforcement personnel.
Clearly we need to leverage that partnership between Federal
resources and the State and local resources, so that we can
more effectively secure our borders.
I look forward to hearing the perspective of all of our
witnesses today. And looking forward to seeing what needs to be
improved on our joint efforts to secure our borders. Thanks for
participating in this hearing. And most importantly thank you
for your important efforts here in Havre and our community. You
are playing a pivotal role in protecting all Americans and
importantly facilitating our economic prosperity.
Senator Tester. Thank you, Steve. Now, I would like to
welcome our witnesses and introduce our first panel, what I
might add, probably need no introduction here in Havre,
Montana.
For Sheriff Don Brostrom, Don began his career with Hill
County in 1989, starting as a reserve deputy sheriff. He has
served the county since then holding the positions of deputy
sheriff and undersheriff. In 2008 he was appointed the Hill
County sheriff/coroner and was elected to that same position
again in 2010. Welcome, Don.
Sheriff Brostrom. Thank you.
Senator Tester. Next we have Nathan Burr. Nathan Burr has
recently taken on the position of Vice President of the Havre
sector within the National Border Patrol Council. He also
serves as a U.S. Border Patrol agent and has served in the
United States Marine Corps (USMC). Nice haircut. Currently he
lives in Montana with his family, and he is an avid hunter.
And finally on this panel, Debbie Vandenberg. Debbie is
Executive Director of the Havre Area Chamber of Commerce. She
chairs multiple committees within the chamber, including
government affairs, Havre festival days, and leadership high
school. Beyond that, she serves as the staff support in the
Havre Pride Tourism Business Improvement District and member
committees.
It is good to have you all here. And it is a custom in this
committee that all of the witnesses who testify before this
committee are sworn in. So if you do not mind, for duplication
purposes, I think we will have the first and the second panel
stand and please just say yes, if you agree.
Thereupon, the panel of witnesses, having been first duly
sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
truth, testified upon their oath as follows:
Let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the
affirmative. Your entire testimony will be put in the record.
If you could talk about your testimony, we will open with about
5 minutes for opening statements, and we will start with you,
Don.
TESTIMONY OF DON BROSTROM,\1\ SHERIFF OF HILL COUNTY, MONTANA
Sheriff Brostrom. Thank you. Senator Tester, Congressman
Daines, good afternoon. I would like to thank you for allowing
me the opportunity to speak at this hearing. It is indeed an
honor to appear before you today.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Sheriff Brostrom appears in the
Appendix on page 29.
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Hill County is primarily a rural agricultural county
located in north central Montana comprised of approximately
2,900 square miles with a population of just over 16,000. The
terrain is extremely rugged, ranging from glaciated plains to
steep sloping hills. Weather can range from highs of over 100
degrees during the summer to lows that are 30 degrees or more
below zero. Weather in this area is extremely variable and can
change drastically in a very short period of time. These types
of conditions, coupled with a large response area, affects not
only law enforcement's response to specific calls for service,
but seriously impacts regular patrol capabilities, especially
throughout the majority of winter and summer months. These
factors clearly indicate the need for a cooperative and
collaborative approach by law enforcement to keep the
communities safe and the borders secure.
Many years ago when I began my career in law enforcement, I
can recall needing backup on a serious call or perhaps cover
unit on a traffic stop. I also recall many times when I
requested such assistance, it was in the form of one of the
local Border Patrol agents. Being from a small law enforcement
agency, we did not always have the luxury of many officers on a
shift. Many times you were the only deputy on duty or your
backup was on the alternate end of the county, sometimes 50
miles or more away. I can tell you it was a huge relief to look
over your shoulder and see one of the Border Patrol agents
arrive to assist.
Our local Border Patrol agents provide higher degree of
training and skill sets, which they are always open to sharing
with local law enforcement. Many years ago, several agents
provided training and sign cutting and man tracking. Months
later this training allowed me to arrest a subject who had
committed numerous residential burglaries and thefts in the
Wildhorse Port of Entry area. Without this training and the
individual assistance of local agents, this crime may have gone
unsolved.
Now, nearly 25 years later, there have been numerous
changes at both agencies: New leadership, new facilities,
additional staff, and growing responsibilities. However, even
with these changes, the situation is largely the same as it was
25 years ago. My deputies still work hand-in-hand with local
Border Patrol agents. They provide backup on calls when needed
and provide training when requested. Border patrol agents
participate in countless local committees, including the Local
Emergency Planning Committee and the local Drug Task Force.
Border patrol agents participated and were instrumental during
a May 2011 interoperable communications exercise held in Hill
County. Air wing personnel have assisted my office in criminal
incidents, as well as on search and rescue missions.
Over the past several years, the Hill County Sheriff's
office has been fortunate to receive Operation Stonegarden
funding, which allows local law enforcement to be used as a
force multiplier for Federal authorities along the border. This
collaborative effort has been successful, as it allows the
Border Patrol to direct local law enforcement to a specific
site or location that for them may be problematic. It is also a
tremendous benefit to Hill County as the added patrols allow
more interaction with rural residents and provides us the
ability to be more productive in our law enforcement approach.
This increase in proactive patrolling has led to a decrease in
criminal activity, specifically residential burglaries and
thefts.
Operation Stonegarden funding has also allowed Hill County
Sheriff's office the ability to purchase speciality equipment
tight local budgets would not have been permitted. This
equipment is not only key to Stonegarden operations, but also
provides a higher level of officer safety. As an example, we
were recently awarded Stonegarden funding that will permit the
purchase of global positioning systems software and devices for
our current portable radios. This will allow us to provide
precise GPS data to the Border Patrol during an incident or
emergency landing zone coordinates for medical emergency during
a Stonegarden operation. None of the software equipment would
be possible without this grant funding.
In closing, I feel that the most important aspect in
protecting our Northern border is simple communication. From
this hearing today, to formal quarterly meetings, to a simple
cup of coffee, communication is key to our overall success.
While funding and technology play major roles now, as well as
in the future, I believe we need to keep our lines of
communication open. Our Federal partners need to keep us
informed of their plans and objectives. Local law enforcement
needs to ensure that we reciprocate and keep our Federal
partners informed of issues and concerns which affect local law
enforcement. When this circle of communications is complete,
the end result is more effective use of Federal and local
resources. We always have and must continue to work side by
side to ensure the safety of our Nation, our State, and our
local communities. Thank you.
Senator Tester. Thank you, Sheriff Brostrom. I appreciate
your testimony. Nathan Burr, you may proceed.
TESTIMONY OF NATHAN BURR,\1\ HAVRE SECTOR VICE PRESIDENT AND
U.S. BORDER PATROL AGENT, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL
Agent Burr. Thank you, gentlemen, for allowing me to be
here.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Burr appears in the Appendix on
page 31.
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I have been asked to address the Border Patrol's role in
securing the Northern border. The Border Patrol is responsible
for providing security in between the ports of entry along the
entire length of our Nation's borders. During hours that the
ports are closed, we're responsible for their security as well.
When it comes to the security of our Nation's borders, it
begins and ends with us.
For the most part all of our resources and focus is on
guarding this Nation's borders. The problem that we have is
that our meager pool of resources is becoming increasingly
shallow. The combination of the Border Patrol's last
congressionally mandated mass hiring and then the current
budgetary crises has left many areas drastically underfunded.
Fuel and vehicle maintenance funding are two of the more
apparent areas. In spite of our dedication and best efforts, it
is difficult to adequately perform our duties without the
proper resources.
In regards to interagency cooperation at the Federal level,
it is completely functional, but strained. Complete interagency
collaboration is subdued and in some cases thwarted by
insecurity and fear. Many agencies are more concerned with
protecting their territory than actual mission accomplishment.
In my experience, this is doubly true of any agency dealing
with either immigration or border security. The relationship in
between the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) and
the Customs Border Patrol (CBP) is a good example of this in
regards to some of the issues of interior enforcement and work
site enforcement. And it is not just--this happens with many
agencies. HR-1505 was cited in my full written testimony, and
the need for that is a good example of what I am talking about.
One of the greatest problems that the Border Patrol faces
in regards to collaboration and partnership with other
entities, in particular local law enforcement entities, is that
of perception. Much to the chagrin of most agents, the Border
Patrol itself is an intensely political animal. In my 9 years
of service, I have seen partnerships in two States develop and
collapse based on the strength and the direction of political
winds.
In January 2010, the Havre station stood up a dedicated
train check unit, of which I was a part. We checked the trains
every day, and our apprehension numbers skyrocketed. We
continued checking the train in this matter with or without a
dedicated train check unit until the fall of 2011, when the
Border Patrol and Havre sector caved in to mounting political
pressure and ended our train check operations.
During that time that we were dedicated to checking the
train, I watched a tremendous number of partnerships develop,
in particular with the Amtrak police department, with ticket
agents in other States. When we were forced to cease the train
check operations, those relationships withered and died. The
previous level of cooperation is gone now.
People generally do not understand the nature of the
political waters that we tread. They do not understand why we
are no longer there. They only know that we are not there for
them now. They feel like they have been abandoned. No amount of
rhetoric will heal that wound. We have to start over from
ground zero and rebuilt those relationships. This takes time
and it slows our progress toward a more secure border.
The effect of border security and the Border Patrol in our
local communities can be enormous. I am a local kid, lived in
this town at this point for 26 years of my life. I understand
this. Many of us prefer to shop locally, even if it means
paying a little extra, because we believe in supporting the
communities that support us. We also require vehicles, ATVs,
snowmobiles and other equipment to perform our duties. All
those service vehicles require fuel and maintenance. If there's
enough vehicles in the fleet, they may require enough
maintenance for a local garage to need to employ another
mechanic.
The majority of us have families. That leads to schools
benefiting from increased enrollment. Havre Public Schools had
to hire extra staff in order to accommodate the increased
enrollment in kindergarten 2 years ago. Many of us had children
in that class, including myself. Increased enrollment leads to
increased funding. And that can lead to a potential increase in
the quality of education that all of our children receive. In
addition to the benefits to the schools, local youth sports,
and youth organizations benefit as well. Many of these
organizations also benefit from agents serving as coaches and
leaders within those organizations. Many charities benefit from
having a Border Patrol presence in their community.
Last year in Havre, a Border Patrol agent's wife organized
a barbecue cook-off in conjunction with festival days. The
event was designed to raise money for the local soup kitchen
and for a church charity. Although there were only four teams
competing, they raised over $500 for those charities. Of those
four teams, three were made up of local Border Patrol agents.
It is one example, in addition to all the other major
charitable events that take place throughout the country that
the Border Patrol participates in: The torch run for Special
Olympics, the Polar Plunge.
In closing, I encourage you to read my full written
testimony. Due to the time constraints for opening statements,
I had to trim a lot of the detailed information out of my
statement. More complete information and specific examples of
everything that I said is included in that testimony.
Thank you, again, for the opportunity to address you today.
And I look forward to your questions.
Senator Tester. Thank you for your testimony. I will go to
Debbie Vandenberg.
TESTIMONY OF DEBBIE VANDEBERG,\1\ EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HAVRE
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE
Ms. Vandenberg. Thank you, Senator Tester, Congressman
Daines, for inviting me to participate on this panel. As a
representative of the Havre business community, it is truly an
honor.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Ms. Vandeberg appears in the Appendix
on page 34.
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The two topics that I will address today are commerce,
trade, commerce also tourism. As we all know exports bring new
money to Montana. And Canada and the United States enjoy one of
the most prosperous relationships in the world with a high
volume of bilateral trade each and every year with those
numbers reaching obviously in the high billions with thousands
of travelers crossing our borders between Canada and the United
States.
Montana and Canada have a profitable trade relationship as
well, with billions of dollars moving back and forth across our
border. Canada is Montana's most important export destination,
purchasing more from Montana than all other countries.
Obviously some of those top exports being paperboard,
automobiles, electric generation, crude oil, plywood, and
plyboard for some examples.
Some of the challenges that we face in this trade and
export arena is obviously the transportation. Over 60 percent
of this trade or exporting that goes into Canada is done by
trucks through our ports. As you well know, there is a large
contingency within this area, as well as in the Alberta area
working to expand our border hours to be more consistent, which
also leads to challenges for our truckers who reach the border
and find out the border is closed, because our hours are never
the same. Obviously with trucks moving, that requires upgrades
in road infrastructure, which a group is also working on that.
In visiting with some of my business folks today,
permitting for agricultural equipment moving back and forth
between Canada and the United States has become quite
burdensome. A few years ago Mr. Harmon noted that he only
needed four permits to cross the border with ag related
equipment. Now it is over 14. So because we are not a
commercial port, it is a permit commercial port. The permitting
process sometimes can break down when, he noted this morning,
that four copies need to go to four different people. And if he
arrives at the port and somebody does not have that one piece
of paper, he has to turn around and go back. So, anyway, the
permitting process he hopes will be streamlined. Obviously we
require a 72-hour port notice and the broker process. Basically
the feeling is, when the doors are not open, how can we do
business. We are basically closed for business with
inconsistent hours at the port.
Tourism is also a great economic driver. For Montana in
2012 nonresident visitors spent $3.2 billion. Top categories
being retail, hotel, restaurant, and gas, with groceries being
a growing category. The Havre area had a survey done in 2002 by
the Institute for Recreation and Research based out of the
University of Montana. A sample survey showed a result that
tourism was a $12 million economy to Hill County then. A
similar sample survey was done in 2010 resulting in information
that tourism has grown to be a 20 million plus industry for
Hill County. Quite a good industry for us. Again, the top
categories mirrored that of Montana as being retail, hotel,
gas, restaurants, and groceries. Again, this is all new money
to our State, as well as to our community.
To drill down on this further, the Montana Office for
Tourism and ITR reported that Canadians in 2011 spent an
estimated $210 million in Montana. 28 percent of that were
nights spent right here in central Montana, with 65 percent of
those visitors coming from Alberta.
Knowing this the Havre Area of Chamber of Commerce Tourism
Committee and our Tourism Business Improvement District
developed an aggressive marketing plan focused to Alberta for
year-round and some marketing into Saskatchewan. The marketing
plan partners with the Montana Office of Tourism, as well as
Central Montana Tourism. The print media campaign is a year-
round campaign. We are also social based on the web and on the
Facebook. Special inserts have been done quarterly by our local
newspaper, and we advertise our events.
As mentioned, retail being one of the largest categories
for expenditures, our local businesses have benefited greatly
from the favorable exchange rate for Canada. Some businesses
reported in a Chamber survey that as much as 50 percent of
their business during the holiday season could be Canadian
sales. Our challenges, again, are the inconsistent hours at the
border. Inconsistency, again, affects our business.
We facilitated some workshops in educating our businesses
with the challenges that we have in the use of Canadian debit
cards and the banks, in that they can't obviously deposit their
money to our Federal reserve. It has to be brokered out. So
businesses depositing cash at their banks creates a little bit
of a challenge, and we've had workshops to try to educate and
mitigate those problems. I understand next year we will have
the euro chip in our credit and debit cards, which will make it
easier for us to do international trade.
I thank you for this opportunity and look forward to your
questions.
Senator Tester. Well, thank you, Debbie. I appreciate all
of your testimony.
I will just start, like I said, if you could just remind
me, Cheryl, when we get to seven, then I will kick it over to
the Congressman, and we will go back and forth.
I will start with you, Sheriff Brostrom, and I will ask the
same question to you, Nathan. From your perspective, your law
enforcement perspective as Hill County Sheriff and you as an
agent, what are the biggest challenges that you see on the
border?
Sheriff Brostrom. For local law enforcement, I guess, the
size of the border, the size of Hill County, and limited number
of deputies that I have to do for patrolling and take calls for
service. And, of course, with the county budgets being tighter
than ever, that also plays a role.
Senator Tester. OK. Nathan.
Mr. Burr. For us it is definitely the size, but that goes
hand-in-hand with the type of terrain that we have specifically
in our area here. My previous station in Arizona, there were a
lot of choke points based on all of the little mountain ranges
that were scattered throughout. Here it is a big, wide open
area that's incredibly difficult to try to cover with the
limited amount of manpower, and, it is tough. There's no
natural choke points where you can put sensors or anything like
that. It makes it difficult.
Senator Tester. OK. Population is I think, what, six people
per square mile in this neck of the woods. Federal law
enforcement, I think, has relied on the eyes and ears of the
local folks, potentially alert them if there's suspicious
activity going on. How are those partnerships working in your
perspective, Nate?
Mr. Burr. Wonderful. I am biassed because I am from here.
But I think we have some of the best people in the world here.
And those relationships are key to trying to provide adequate
coverage up there. We get a lot of good feedback. And it is a
very good relationship and a very valuable one.
Senator Tester. Sheriff Brostrom, and I do not know, this
question will probably be asked of the next panel too, may
apply to them more than you, but do you have any interaction
with Canadian law enforcement or your counterparts to the
north?
Sheriff Brostrom. Generally it is more toward
communications, interoperable communications, more toward the
law enforcement end of it. But I do belong to a couple of
different cross-border committees that are studying how we are
going to talk with, Montana is going to a VHS system, our truck
radio system, and the Canadians go to either 7 or 800 megs. So
it is more along those lines.
Senator Tester. You talk about operation Stonegarden, and
they have done, obviously done some good work granting some
dollars in here. Are there any other pools of money that you
look at, or is that just about the only game in town?
Sheriff Brostrom. No. Hill County over the years has been
very fortunate receiving both State grants and Federal grants
to the tune of, just in the sheriff's office, close to $3
million probably in the last 10 years. But unfortunately those
grants are drying up quickly. Stonegarden, we have had
Stonegarden since 2005. Over the course of 2005, 2008, 2009,
2011, 2012, and we just applied for 2013. So Stonegarden has
been one that has always been there.
Senator Tester. Yes.
Sheriff Brostrom. And it works, I think, well for the
Border Patrol. But it works extremely well for my office,
because we get out and we get to patrol the areas that we do
not normally patrol.
Senator Tester. OK.
Sheriff Brostrom. Simply because my guys go to where the
trouble spots are. They do not normally run up and down the Hi-
Line, because we have had those folks up there in those
communities for generations. And we do not have a lot of
problems on the Hi-Line as much as we do in other areas of the
county. So it gives us that extra opportunity to get out and
talk with the residents, see what is going on. A lot of the
information that we get that we can pass on to the Border
Patrol comes from the folks that live up and down the Hi-Line.
Senator Tester. OK. When I was in the State legislature,
interoperability was a big issue, because it did not exist for
the most part. Can you give me an idea today, I mean that's
been almost 10 years ago now, but today how interoperable are
we? Are there still some gaps in there that we need to be
paying attention to?
Sheriff Brostrom. We have made leaps and bounds in the last
10 years, but there's still a lot of work to do. I think we
have been working hand in hand with local police department,
Border Patrol, rural fire agencies, all of the responders
locally in Hill County, as well as the cross-border in Blaine
County, Liberty County, and Chouteau County, as well as our
Federal partners. There's a lot of work to do, but I think we
have made tremendous movement in the last 10 years.
Senator Tester. How do you feel about that, Nathan? Same
perspective?
Mr. Burr. Yes. The radios that are vehicle based work
really well and the interoperabilities.
Senator Tester. Well, I think we talked about
communication. I think you talked about, Sheriff, about how
quick the communication was, and this was a part of that. And
if there are, if there are things out there that are impeding
your ability to do your job, because we do not have the
equipment, we would sure love to know about that. And, like I
said, Chris, you will probably get the same line when you come
up. I think it is really important. You ca not access the
resources that are out there, if you ca not talk to them
basically.
Debbie, I know you have worked hard, along with many of the
other folks in this room and people in this community, on Wild
Horse and commerce with the border. If you could, just kind of
discuss, you did in your opening statement, I would just like
to have you flush out a little more about the challenges of
local business base when it comes to attracting folks to come
down here.
Ms. Vandenberg. Well, the first challenge, and you know
this, Senator Tester, because we have been talking about this
for how many years, is access to the State through the border
and those inconsistent hours. And we have talked about the
pilot program that we need. The business community is very much
in support obviously those more open hours to the border, more
open door. I mean and that's a huge challenge. If the door is
closed, then we ca not do business. And we were very excited
when we were able to get the extra month into October 31 for
those expanded summer hours. It is huge to our economy.
Visiting with one of my businesses this morning, I mean he
literally delivers furniture over the border, unloads it, the
customers meet him at the border, they load it into their
vehicles and drive back. And several comments have been, if it
was not for the great benefit to us and the Canadian exchange
rate now, I think that our economy in Havre would have some
challenges. So we are grateful for that Canadian business.
The other challenge is on the point of sale part. And we
have learned that obviously the Federal reserve does not take
our Canadian money. It is international money. So it has to be
brokered out. So our banks, we just had an incident in one of
our banks the other day, where a Canadian came in to get some
money, and he was charged a service charge. Well, they have to
broker that money. So they have to pay to ship it and all that
kind of stuff. So even though it says it is at par, there's
some added fees to that.
One of the other challenges that we discovered the
Christmas before last was a lot of our merchants' modems did
not read the Canadian debit card. And they have a chip in there
that is different than ours.
Senator Tester. That's right, Debbie.
Ms. Vandenberg. So we were not as business friendly as we
wanted to be. I mean we were marketing and inviting people to
come down and shop. We have people standing outside the doors
of the mall in below zero weather on Boxing Day, the day after
Christmas, to come down and shop in our community. And they
have the Bay Company. But, anyway, so we have worked hard. We
brought in some folks from Canada certified to educate our
business community on different opportunities that they have to
update that system to be more customer friendly, and it is
working, but it is a process.
Senator Tester. I am going to turn it over to Congressman
Daines in just a second.
But I think there's some opportunity that we need to visit
about, and maybe get Visa and MasterCard in here to see if it
is possible to get help with this issue.
Ms. Vandenberg. What I learned this morning, in talking to
a couple of the banks, is that we are just technology-wise we
are a little bit behind the eight ball in getting that euro
chip into ours.
Senator Tester. Congressman Daines.
Congressman Daines. Thanks, Senator. Sheriff Brostrom,
thank you for your service to the community, allowing parents
to sleep better at night and the community. But I want to ask
you what keeps you up at night, as you think about the
challenges at the border?
Sheriff Brostrom. That's a good question. I guess the
things that I do not know, what may be happening that I am not
aware of or do not know that may be coming across the border. I
guess that's why I rely on the experts in the green uniforms to
keep me informed when we have those quarterly meetings of the
things that they know that they share with local law
enforcement.
Congressman Daines. When you think about the risks out
there, what are some of the greatest risks that you see as you
think about protecting your county and our State and so forth?
Sheriff Brostrom. Of course, drugs is always a key issue,
combating drugs, prescription drugs especially, not knowing
where they are coming from. Some of it may be coming across the
border. Obviously it is coming across from other States into
Montana and into Hill County. I guess that's always the key on
the forefront of everybody's mind is where are the drugs coming
from, what are we going to do about the epidemic in Montana,
especially in Hill County.
Congressman Daines. Nathan, what are your thoughts on that,
what keeps you up at night?
Mr. Burr. The potential number of terrorists in Canada and
how open the Northern border is. There's a chance that maybe
they won't transit through this area. Maybe they do something
here.
Congressman Daines. And something that we were discussing
just on Wednesday, when Mayor Giuliani came to our Homeland
Security Committee hearing, and we were looking at how we could
have prevented the Boston marathon attack, and I think there's
consensus that we could have done better in that regard, and
one of the challenges was a breakdown between intelligence of
what the FBI knew versus what the local law enforcement knew.
Let me ask a question: In terms of your relationship with
intelligence from the FBI and so forth, do you feel like,
Sheriff Brostrom, are you getting information that you need to
make sure that--because the boots in the ground here, the local
intelligence is sometimes the best intelligence.
Sheriff Brostrom. Well, I said earlier that I think it is
all down to communication, and I still say that. Whether it is
the FBI, the Border Patrol, any Federal partner, city police,
sheriff's office, going into Blaine County, Liberty County, we
all need to talk to one another. I think our local Federal
partners do a great job of informing the local city police,
local sheriff what is going on in our community. But obviously
that can always get better.
Congressman Daines. Nathan, your thoughts on that.
Mr. Burr. Just to clarify my role in everything, I am
sitting here in a suit, but my actual role on the Border Patrol
I am a dirt sniff and run. The lowest of the low, and a lot of
the information does not get pushed down there. Our
intelligence department is great. They do a lot of good work.
Our management side of things, I think they get a little bit
more than what we do, and it does not seem like, in regards to
FBI, I get one FBI alert e-mail a week, I think. That's about
it. Grand scheme of things, I do not think that the guys on the
ground really know as much as what they could.
Congressman Daines. I appreciate the perspective of Sheriff
Brostrom, always can improve communication, cups of coffee,
both informal and formal. Sounds like it is an area that we can
improve an opportunity for us to continue to work on to
leverage the limited resources that we have.
Nathan, you made a comment, too, intrigued by, you spent
time on the Southern border.
Mr. Burr. Yes.
Congressman Daines. And as a Montana kid, also
understanding the Northern border now very well. Maybe share a
little bit more, because we hear so much, again, about the
Southern border. The focus in Washington is on the Southern
border. You mentioned some choke points of topography that
actually allows the Southern border, it is easier to secure
even than the Northern border. If you can elaborate more on
that for us on around the challenge of the Northern border
versus the Southern border.
Mr. Burr. Well, it is not necessarily easier. In a lot of
cases there's more to work with. And, I mean, my view point was
the Sonora Desert in Arizona. They have places where they have
the river and different stuff that presents a challenge. The
prairie or high desert areas, a lot of it is just open. Barring
two track roads and that, they could be anywhere. Trying to
find vehicular traffic would almost be like trying to find air
traffic. There's not much to stop them.
The challenges up here, the biggest thing and the biggest
shocker for me was just that. It is that wide open. There's no
border road up here that actually runs directly along the
international border. That can present a challenge too. That
gave us an area to work down south and to transverse along the
border to see what was going on, where we were completely
beyond reproach. For the most part, nobody could complain about
us being on that, because of some of the legal aspects. There's
a strip of ground through there and that. So that's a challenge
up here. To try to track things out, big difference trying to
track in between good sand and grass and hard pack up here.
Those are all the biggest things, the terrain.
Down there, they are dealing with so many numbers, and so
many numbers, and so many numbers. And every group reduces your
manpower by at least one, because you have one guy chasing
them, and that makes it that much easier for the next group to
go through.
Congressman Daines. One more comment that you made about
the train checks you said that were going along and then
there's some challenges there. What needs to be done to get
that back on the tracks, excuse the pun?
Mr. Burr. We are making some really good steps in the right
direction. This actually, from my perspective, it comes at kind
of an awkward time. We had a change of command. We have a new
chief now. Our previous chief, she was not quite as big on
enforcement as what I would have liked to have seen. Chief
Richards, that's a focus. Came in immediately, and we are back
on the trains working it in a little different manner, trying
to have a lower impact on the public. And so we are taking
steps that are in the right direction. But, for us,
apprehensions are not where they were.
Congressman Daines. Thanks. I want to make sure I save some
time for Debbie.
Ms. Vandenberg. That's OK.
Congressman Daines. Seven minutes goes by way too fast.
Debbie, I'm struck with your comment about 4 permits to 14
permits to move ag equipment across lines. What are we going to
do about that? That sounds ridiculous.
Ms. Vandenberg. And the gentleman that I spoke to Jon knows
very well, Ron Harmon, with Big Equipment Company. And he said
probably 3 years ago or 4 years ago, it was four permits. And
he said over time it is ratcheted up to the 14 permits. And he
said every time we, the United States, adds a permitting
process, the Canadian side ramps up their permitting side as
well. So he said it is just as cumbersome going up as it is
coming back.
Congressman Daines. Right. I am sure that we would love to
get more on that----
Senator Tester. Absolutely.
Congressman Daines [continuing.] To figure out how do we
downsize the permitting process here to make more sense. And
then one last question----
Ms. Vandenberg. And he would be willing to visit with you
about that too.
Congressman Daines. I think that would be good for us to
figure that out. The last question for you, you mentioned
there's some real potential economy here with getting the hours
straightened out, getting the border a little more accessible
back and forth. Is there a way to help quantify that, thinking
of the cost benefit, because it might require investing in more
resources to do that, but what the benefits might be in terms
of the economy here?
Ms. Vandenberg. We have done some surveys within the
business community, and we could probably do that again. I know
a few years ago we did the study in partnership with Bear Paw
Development, with Dr. Varkeo with the University of Montana
showing the economic impact should the border go 24-hour
commercial. And that report could probably be updated.
Congressman Daines. It might be a to-do, because it is more
tax revenues, so looking at how much is my cost versus----
Ms. Vandenberg. The jobs, economy, and that.
Congressman Daines. You bet. OK. Great. All right. Thank
you, Senator.
Senator Tester. Thank you, Steve. I just have one more
question for you, Nathan. And it has to do with travel long
distances from both places like Havre to the border Turner, for
example. Long haul, often take at least an hour, maybe two to
get there. Many of your agents, and you correct me if I am
wrong, operate individually, so manpower could be stretched and
utilized. Any gaps in the work shifts would create definite
repercussions, as you said, if somebody is gone from the
border, it is a problem.
Mr. Burr. Yes.
Senator Tester. So the reality of this is overtime pay,
ultimately.
Mr. Burr. Yes, sir.
Senator Tester. So I just want to get your opinion on the
currency of the pay system. Does it make the most sense for
folks like you and the agency you serve, does it make most
sense for border security, does it make sense for the taxpayer
the way the system currently works with overtime pay.
Mr. Burr. Yes, it does. The current system has been under
attack for several years now, and it is certainly coming to a
head. But the biggest thing with administrative controlled
overtime (ACO) it is called, we are not really getting overtime
pay for those hours. So we are really quite a bargain for the
government. We are making regular pay for those. For the most
part, everybody else in America that works 40 hours a week gets
time-and-a-half minimum. We do not. There's a portion in those
hours where Fair Labor Standards Act pay kicks in. And that
does bump us up to nearly time-and-a-half. Anything that we
work beyond 100 hours in a 2-week pay period, we get paid half
time beyond that. So financially we are a bargain for the
government. The pay reform bill that you put forward, even more
so. We will save the government millions off employment. They
are already saving on us.
But those hours that we work, and that's the biggest
factor, I mean forget the pay, it takes us roughly an hour-and-
a-half to get up to Turner. It takes roughly an hour-and-a-half
to get up to Chester or to the, north of Chester it is pretty
much directly north of Chester, Larry Road. But if we do not
have the ability to work those overtime hours, I am going to
have to leave the field, leave the area of Turner, an hour-and-
a-half before the end of my shift. It is going to take the next
shift an hour-and-a-half to get out there, and that's going
beyond time to do muster, get vehicles, anything else that
anybody else needs, the little housekeeping issues that come up
at the beginning of the shift. The same thing for the other
shifts.
So those areas will see 3 hours completely open, if people
lose this pay. I mean, traditionally everywhere in the Border
Patrol the seams in between the area's responsibilities and
stations is always exploited. And it does not take a tremendous
amount of intelligence, work for smuggling organizations and
that to figure out where those seams are. So that pay, but more
importantly those hours, that's vital for security. Without
that, there's a huge gap.
Senator Tester. Thank you. Congressman Daines. Just real
quick and we will get the next panel up here in a second.
Debbie, if we might, I would love to have you visit with
some of the banking folks, and I am serious about getting Visa
and MasterCard on the phone and talk about solutions and a
timeframe for that, because we ought to get in the 21st
Century. So thanks.
I just want to say thank you to the panel. I very much
appreciate your guys' service, appreciate your testimony here
today, your openness with your answers to Congressman Daines
and my questions. So thank you very much. And carry on and keep
doing good work.
While this panel gets settled back, we are going to bring
up our second panel. While they are coming up, I am going to
introduce who they are.
We have Kumar Kibble. Mr. Kibble serves as a Specialty
Agent in Charge of Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), in
the regional office in Denver, Colorado. Welcome to Montana. He
is responsible for leading transnational criminal
investigations conducted by Homeland Security investigations
offices based throughout Colorado, Montana, Utah, and Wyoming.
He began his government career as an infantry officer with the
82d Airborne Division. So we want to thank you, Mr. Kibble, for
making the drive up here from Denver. You did not even fly.
Thank you for being here.
Mr. Kibble. Thank you, sir.
Senator Tester. Next we have Christopher Richards. Chief
Richards is currently the Chief Patrol Agent for the Havre
Sector. His career with the U.S. Border Patrol spans more than
27 years. Prior to his selection as chief of the Havre sector,
he was assigned to the U.S. Border Patrol headquarters as an
associate chief. Chris Richards and I have spent a fair amount
of time on the airplane together.
Yes, we will. OK. Go ahead and switch it.
(Whereupon, Videotape 1 ended. Videotape 2 begins.)
Senator Tester. The third member of this panel is Robert
Desrosier. Robert serves as the Homeland Security Director of
the Blackfeet Nation. A post that he has held since 2006. He is
also Chairman of the Montana Indian Nation Working Group.
Robert has testified before our committee before, and I want to
thank you for being here again today.
Each of you, as with the previous panel, will have 5
minutes for your opening statement. And know that your full
written statement will be entered into the record. And with
that we will start with you, Mr. Kibble.
TESTIMONY OF KUMAR C. KIBBLE,\1\ SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE,
HOMELAND SECURITY INVESTIGATIONS DENVER
Mr. Kibble. Chairman Tester and Congressman Daines, thank
you for the opportunity to appear before you in Havre to
discuss ICE's efforts to improve security along the Northern
border of the United States.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Kibble appears in the Appendix on
page 37.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
ICE employs a multi-layered law enforcement approach to
Northern border security based on an understanding that our
geographic boundary with Canada is only one piece of the
criminal continuum. It is neither the starting point nor the
final destination of cross-border criminal activity. In fact,
this illicit activity is often rooted in interior cities, as
well as in smaller communities, throughout the United States.
It is in these communities where the vast profits are generated
that sustain the operations of transnational criminal
organizations (TCOs), and where ICE succeeds on a daily basis,
together with our interagency partners, in disrupting and
dismantling the entire smuggling enterprise.
ICE is positioned to leverage its broad statutory authority
to support border enforcement by working in close coordination
with other DHS components and U.S. interagency partners, as
well as our counterparts in Canadian law enforcement, to target
the illicit pathways and organizations that produce, transport,
and distribute contraband.
We continue to disrupt cross-border criminal activity
systematically at all stages through effective cooperation and
collaboration with our Federal, State, local, tribal, and
importantly international law enforcement partners. We are
making it increasingly difficult for TCOs and other criminals
to operate.
In fact, speaking of international partnerships, ICE
maintains the largest investigative footprint of any U.S.
investigative law enforcement agency in Canadian, with an
attachee and assistant attachee offices in Ottawa, Vancouver,
Toronto, and Montreal, that enhance national security by
conducting investigations involving transnational criminal
organizations and also serving as the agency's liaison to our
interagency partners and counterparts in local government and
law enforcement. In Montreal, for example, HSI operates a Visa
Security Unit (VSU) to complement the traditional screening
provided by providing additional level of review of visa
applications of special interest persons before they enter the
United States.
A crucial aspect of our approach to Northern border
security is our partnerships with our colleagues across DHS
agencies, as well as with Federal, State, county, local,
tribal, and foreign agencies. These partnerships are absolutely
essential to the joint operations and information sharing along
the Northern Border and beyond. And they are conducted in the
spirit of the President and Prime Minister's Beyond the Border
initiative, which seeks to promote integrated cross-border law
enforcement. Collectively these agencies possess a unique
understanding of the threats, risks, and vulnerabilities along
the Northern border that enhance our ability to deter, disrupt,
and investigate illegal cross-border activity.
We are also an active participant in the Canada U.S. Cross-
Border Crime Form (CBCF). The CBCF meets annually. Smaller
working-level meetings throughout the year, bringing together
more than 100 senior law enforcement officials and prosecutors
from Canadian and the United States to address cross-border
issues, including counterterrorism cooperation, mass-marketing
fraud, interoperability of our respective law enforcement
agencies along the border, and combating organized crime. ICE
and Border Patrol leadership, in particular, meet on a regular
basis, along with leaders of other DHS components to discuss
areas of mutual concern.
Our flagship task force program, the Border Enforcement
Security Task Force (BEST), was created in 2005, is a mechanism
to address the threat of cross-border crime. BEST task forces
provide a proven and a flexible platform from which DHS
investigates and targets transnational criminal organizations
that attempt to exploit vulnerabilities at our Nation's
borders.
We are working tirelessly in coordination with Federal,
State, local, international, and tribal agencies to identify,
disrupt, and dismantle these TCOs that subvert the rule of law,
violate our immigration and customs laws, destabilize our
communities, and threaten national security.
We commit substantial resources along the Northern border,
and our considerable efforts are part of a comprehensive
strategy that focuses on securing the border, dismantling the
infrastructure that supports cross-border criminal activity,
and identifying and seizing the illicit profits from these
crimes. We are dedicated and committed to this mission, and
look forward to continuing to work with Congress on these
efforts.
And, again, thank you for inviting me to appear before you
today. And I would be pleased to answer any questions.
Senator Tester. Thank you, Mr. Kibble. Chief Richards.
TESTIMONY OF CHRISTOPHER RICHARDS, HAVRE SECTOR CHIEF PATROL
AGENT, U.S. BORDER PATROL
Mr. Richards. Chairman Tester and Congressman Daines, it is
a privilege and honor to appear before you today to discuss the
efforts of the United States Border Patrol in securing the
Northern border. Please allow me to begin by expressing my
gratitude for your support of the mission and the people for
the U.S. Border Patrol. We greatly appreciate your efforts and
assistance, and I look forward to continuing to work with you
and your staff in the future.
As part of America's frontline border agency, the U.S.
Border Patrol operates between the ports of entry, with the
primary goal of protecting the American people from persons,
organizations who pose a threat to our Nation. Our work to
reduce the likelihood of terrorist attack, while providing
safety and security for our citizens, is an ongoing mission. We
will expand on the integrated approach to border security that
is proven successful, including active engagement with law
enforcement, community, and civil partners at the Federal,
State, local, tribal, and international levels.
In addition to expanding collaboration and partnering, the
implementation of the U.S. Border Patrol's risk-based strategy
will greatly focus our efforts. Our new strategy takes a more
holistic view, examining threats, vulnerabilities, and risk
laterally across the border and in depth beyond our borders
while moving our organization toward a mobile and flexible
workforce that can rapidly respond to emerging threats and
mitigate risks.
As you know, the Montana border is expansive, characterized
by vast plains with deep coulees in central and eastern
corridors and by rugged mountainous regions in the west. Our
challenges in gaining situational awareness of these are many.
Primary among them is our ongoing requirement for accurate
information and timely intelligence. Both are essential in
providing agents with critical insight about those who seek to
cross our borders with criminal intent.
Operations within the Havre sector have evolved over the
years. 72 percent of Havre sector's border is privately owned
agricultural land. And our connection to our local stakeholders
is a critical component of our mission. Additionally, we rely
on various forms of detection compatibility. In some areas of
our border, we require the ability to quickly identify and
classify cross-border entries and rapidly respond to effect an
arrest. In other areas, generally characterized as remote,
situational awareness is aided by the deployment of unmanned
aerial systems (UASs).
These UASs are equipped with intelligence, surveillance,
and reconnaissance sensors that provide agents and
decisionmakers with greater situational awareness of border
areas through change in detection technology and trend
analysis. These technologies, with other methods of information
collection and full integration with our partners will
establish the basis from which we will qualify our success.
I assumed command of the Havre sector in April of this
year, and I quickly established two priorities: To enhance and
improve communications both internally and externally, and to
focus our resources on the collection of information. The
latter is consistent with the 2012-2016 Border Patrol strategic
plan that is built upon the three pillars of information,
integration, and rapid response.
As we gather and analyze information, we will proactively
integrate with our Federal, State, local, tribal and
international partners through operational planning that seeks
common objectives and outcomes. Drawing on all of our
collective resources, we will rapidly respond to mitigate the
risk. This whole government approach will depend upon
cooperation amongst all agencies up to and including the Border
Patrol sectors to my east and west, which takes me back to my
first objective of communication. Everyone in this room
understands that in order for partnerships to succeed, trust
must be established through communication.
My staff and I are committed to building coalitions within
our own ranks and among our external partners and community
stakeholders. In the end, we all want the same thing: To feel
safe in our communities. And border security is essential to
that pursuit.
I am proud to represent the agency at the frontline of that
objective and to speak for the men and women who proudly serve
in this uniform.
Thank you and I look forward to your questions.
Senator Tester. Thank you, Chief Richards. Robert
Desrosier.
TESTIMONY OF ROBERT DESROSIER, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR,
BLACKFEET NATION
Mr. Desrosier. Congressman Daines, Senator Tester, thank
you very much for this opportunity to address you today and
your concerns on the Northern border. I feel very fortunate to
have this job as the Director for Homeland Security for the
Blackfoot Nation.
Our nation is roughly 3 hours west of here. And we are a
border tribe. We have roughly one-tenth of the Montana border
adjacent to tribal lands. The Blackfeet Nation is a million-
and-a-half acres, and our population runs a little over 8,500
people pretty normally. However, in the summertime today, we
are a little over 22,000-23,000 people, because of the park.
And I just heard yesterday that Glacier National Park just hit
a million visitors this year already. Most of that impacts the
tribal lands and the Indian nations. So we have a very tough
challenge confronting us, since my operation is a two-man
border security force. I have myself and a deputy.
It is quite challenging at times. Some of our demographics
I mentioned, but our elevation and our terrain is unique. We
are roughly around 3,500 feet in elevation on the east end to
about 9,000 on the west end toward the Continental Divide. And
we have areas on the international border where it is
inaccessible by motor vehicle. It is either by aircraft or by
foot. We have pretty good luck in off-road and four-wheel-drive
vehicles, but I would say that that is one of our challenges is
good and complete coverage on our Northern border.
And as I testified here a few years ago, we, at that time,
completed a very thorough inventory of our border lands. And we
have identified, at that time, nine illegal crossings that were
in use out of 14 potentially crossing points on the
reservation. And this year we are at the same level. We have
signed--we can pick up signs at any number of illegal crossing
sites at any given day. And the problem that we face is just
not having adequate manpower and accurate coverage to be out
there at a greater timeframe throughout the day.
I want to mention a story right here, and I will try to go
fast in the interest time. But a couple of weeks ago I was
called out at 11 in the evening for three young ladies that
were stranded on a mountaintop just on the western boundary of
the reservation. And we responded with a search and rescue
crew, and we determined that this was an impossible task for us
to climb up there on the mountain and retrieve these young
ladies in the middle of the night. So we call in our partners.
And a nine-member Glacier National Park high-angle rope rescue
people team arrived at daylight and rescued successfully these
three young ladies off the mountain.
But that is a story that often goes unheard of the
extraordinary gains that we have made in creating partnerships
with Federal agencies in our tribal law enforcement. We had
Glacier County Sheriff, Blackfeet Law Enforcement, and Glacier
National Park that saved these three girls from--they ended up
spending the night on the mountains, but it certainly could
have had a different outcome.
And I want to say that I am very happy of the fact of the
things that we have been able to accomplish in our
partnerships. The Border Patrol and their tribal liaison
program has been very beneficial and very successful. As me
being the Chairman of the Montana Indian Nations Working Group,
I also have that person that takes part and does presentations
and trainings in that larger tribal arena throughout the State
of Montana. It is a very good thing.
But there are challenges ahead of us that remain. We have
to continue to work in that area and become better. We have
been able to develop safe schools task force that goes into our
reservation schools, communities and work together multi-
jurisdictional, along with the school administrators. And we
have monthly meetings and address potential threats to our
schools and talk about the challenges that we have and assess
the vulnerability of our schools in our communities. I am
available for any questions, and I thank you very much again.
Senator Tester. Robert, thank you very much. And thank you
all for your testimony. I very much appreciate it. Same format
as before.
I will start with you, Mr. Kibble. From an ICE perspective,
what are some of the challenges that you are seeing on, well,
on both the Northern border and the Southwest border and kind
of is a degree of difficulty, let me know?
Mr. Kibble. Well, certainly, Senator, sequestration brings
a different set of challenges. Although, I mean we always knew
the resources are available. We just need to prioritize the
threats.
Senator Tester. Right.
Mr. Kibble. Obviously there's a high volume of activity
along the Southwest border. Here, to kind of anticipate your
question, Congressman Daines, in terms of what keeps me awake
is just are we working in terms of focusing on what we can
control, are we doing everything that we can in terms of
information sharing, operational partnership, to keep dangerous
people and dangerous goods from crossing the border.
And I think that we can never stop working toward getting
better and better, but I will tell you it is as good as I have
ever seen it. I can tell you here in Montana, we do not
generally comment on specific staffing, but we are dramatically
smaller than our sister agency HSI, the Border Patrol. And
without partnership, without close collaboration with them, we
would be dead in the water, in terms of some of the
investigations that jointly we have been able to pursue in
terms of disbanding and dismantling organizations.
Senator Tester. As far as drug traffic goes, what are you
seeing on the Northern border?
Mr. Kibble. Well, it is a great story of collaboration, a
Border Patrol agent a couple of years ago, 2011, on an initial
encounter, and then us jointly working together, bringing the
Royal Mounted Police in, bringing other State and local
agencies, as well as DEA, we were able to dismantle an
organization that moved more than a ton of cocaine from the
United States across the border in eastern Montana into Canada,
as well as more than a million Ecstasy tablets, MDMA, from
Canada into the United States. And we know that because,
working with the RCMP, they were able to get the ledgers that
showed those 22 separate shipments.
But, again, working together, and it gets back to this
integrated cross-border enforcement, working with the Canadians
to be able to attack the entire continuum is what allowed us to
have that great success. In fact, it was featured as the model
for Beyond the Border of X-generation and the Cross-Border
Crime Forum a couple of years ago. It was excellent work.
Senator Tester. I do not know if you have a good enough
crystal ball or if you have done the matrix on this, but how
much of the illegal drug activity on the Northern border do you
think you catch?
Mr. Kibble. Sir, I do not know. That's the challenge there.
Senator Tester. OK. During a recent trip that I took to the
Northern border, I spoke with some CBP agents that were
frustrated by jurisdictional issues. Not to get too specific,
but CBP had actionable intelligence, and this has been a year
or two ago, to make a number of arrests in a rate to move
forward, but ultimately had to defer to ICE, because it was
deemed as interior enforcement. At the end of the day, nothing
was done, which is particularly concerning to me considering
there is a fair amount of money that we put at this stuff. And
if there's actionable enforcement, nothing is done, that's not
acceptable. Like I said, that was a year or two ago. We can
assume it is better now. But can you just tell me now how CBP
and ICE currently handle overlapping jurisdictions?
And if you want to jump in on this one, when he's done,
Chief Richards, you can.
Mr. Kibble. Certainly. We have a number of policies in
place to where we complement one another. Border patrol is
obviously the lead for interdiction between ports of entry. We
complement that with an investigative function. Here I am
speaking within Homeland Security Investigations. The other
directorate within ICE is enforcement and removal operations,
which does the civil immigration enforcement and the detention.
We have regular meetings with sector chiefs and special agents
in charge. We're piloting new partnerships, so that we can
continue to work closer. I will tell you, years ago, I was very
concerned about the relationship within DHS. But, again, it is
as good as I have ever seen it. But we do have work to do. We
need to keep working to improve it.
Senator Tester. OK. Chief, would you talk about that?
Mr. Richards. Yes, sir. Your question specifically was how
things worked in Montana between us and ICE.
Senator Tester. That's correct.
Mr. Richards. OK, sir. So, yes, we have, I am pleased to
say, a very good relationship with the seven ICE agents that
work out of the Great Falls office. They complement what we do.
I've got stories, the one that Mr. Kibble shared with you
about the crossing that led to the big investigation. Within
the ICE MOU, there's a threshold.
If we encounter a situation at the border and there is an
ongoing case or a potential for a case that would extend
beyond, we call ICE. And, in fact, I have one of my supervisors
embedded with the ICE office in Great Falls, who facilitates on
this conversations. And I would suggest to you that we have
seamless communication in that area. We have had a lot of
success.
Senator Tester. That's good. One more quick one, and then
Congressman Daines can take it up. Your headquarters is here in
Great Falls for the State.
Mr. Kibble. Yes.
Senator Tester. If you have let's say with the Bakken
play--this is not hypothetical. It's probably more real than
hypothetical--and they find an undocumented person, and the
sheriff locks them down, No. 1, how long are they there for,
and do you have the manpower to be able to go pick that person
up and deal with them, because ultimately it is going to be
your responsibility? And correct me if I am wrong.
Mr. Kibble. Sir, it would be ICE's responsibility in terms
of response to a custody kind of situation. That falls within
our other directorate within ICE that I am not responsible for.
So I am happy to get that information for you. I do not know
what their response time is.
Senator Tester. If you could get that back to me.
Mr. Kibble. Sure.
Senator Tester. And basically what I want to know is, No.
1, do you have the manpower to be able to make a, what is it, a
10-hour drive from Glendive to Great Falls? It is eight at
least. Do you have the manpower to be able to do that, No. 1?
And, No. 2, how long would it take to respond to that?
Mr. Kibble. Sure, Senator.
Senator Tester. OK. Congressman Daines.
Congressman Daines. Thank you, Senator. In a recent
Homeland Security hearing we had back in Washington, we had
Secretary Napolitano come and testify and some of her deputies.
One of the questions was, and I asked the question, as a
Montana guy, because as the Senator mentioned, so much of the
focus is on the Southwest border, and we are very concerned
about the Northern border as Montanans, I asked the question
what percent of our Northern border is secure. And the answer
was about 5 percent.
Now, I am not quite sure how they determined that number. I
did not really ask how I was defining secure. But I would like
to throw the question around, how do you measure success,
because we are sitting here talking about wanting to secure the
border. My background is in business. We know that if you aim
at nothing, you will hit it. How do we measure success? What is
the definition of having a secure border? It is a very
political issue back in Washington, we want a secure border. I
would love to get your thoughts. And maybe we will start with
Mr. Kibble, and then we will go to Chief Richards, and then I
want to hear from Mr. Desrosier as well.
Mr. Kibble. Congressman, from our standpoint, because we
have that investigative function, we do not have the patrol
function along the border, in terms of how we measure success,
we look at how we are prioritizing criminal organizations and
impacting their capacity to smuggle people or goods across the
border. So we have a strategy called the Illicit Pathways
Attack Strategy, where we rack and stack based on intelligence,
based on investigations, based on information from partners,
what the most serious threats are. And then our success at
disrupting or dismantling, again, not just the activity at the
border, but the entire continuum. So our success is measured in
terms of how have we dismantled organizations that moved X
number of kilos across the border or X number of people across
the border.
Congressman Daines. It is probably less germane to your
neck of the woods, and probably to the chief. So I will put you
in the hot seat here. How do we measure success?
Mr. Richards. Sir, this is a great question. It is one we
have been discussing for a long time. Chief Fisher has had
numerous testimonies on the hill explaining a secure border is
when the American people feel safe that their border is secure.
How to quantify that is another issue. Different
methodologies. Of course, down south they are using the
effectiveness ratio, and it is a complicated math formula that
just in general it involves flow, apprehensions, got-aways, and
then we do the numbers. For the Northern border it is going to
be a little bit different. We are going to be very reliant on
situational awareness, how well we know what is going on, and
then how well our resources are at attacking what is going on.
The No. 1 priority that I have given to my staff and to my
agents in the field is collection of intelligence, because, as
Mr. Brostrom stated not knowing what we do not know is a
problem. Once we have information on the goings-on, whether it
is frequent or even infrequent crossings, then we can address
those areas with technologies and resources, personnel and
otherwise. One of the benefits to Montana, in particular, is we
do not have a large geographic municipality right on the
border, but there's a bigger one on the north side, for
example, Detroit-Windsor, that actually works to our benefit.
Now, I realize there are still issues with the vastness and
openness. But the routes and egress, we are able to, with
information and collection. And then key to this also, I might
add, is the integration with our partners, ICE and all of them,
our locals, in particular. We will be able then to mitigate
that risk.
And so in answer to your question, I foresee situational
management with a layered piece of our capabilities, technology
and otherwise, and we will establish a matrix based on that.
Congressman Daines. One of the advantages of doing field
hearings is we get to hear from your folks who are right here
at the coal face, which I really appreciate, versus, maybe high
level bureaucrats back in Washington. And do you think it is
the right matrix? And if you had to think of a matrix or two,
you know from your view, and I really want to hear from you,
because you are out here every day getting the dust on your
truck, what do you think is the right thing to measure there?
Mr. Richards. You asked the questions of the others, stuff
what keeps me up at night. And for me what dominates my
thinking, as the chief of the sector, is how can we do this
better. I will tell you that I do believe strongly that
coalitions and partners, not just law enforcement, with
community, is critical to our success. Chairman Tester, you are
a landowner, and you know what is going on your property. And
if I have a connection established, then we have a better
awareness of what is going on. And it is a needle in a
haystack, with 460 miles within my OR, difficult, and Mr. Burr
pointed out some real challenges. However, I think that the
approach to that is it relies on information, the collection
thereof, the synthesization of that information into
intelligence, so we can respond to that with resources.
Congressman Daines. Mr. Desrosier, speaking of the needle
in the haystack, I was struck by your comment of two of you to
patrol that 50, 60 miles from 3,500 to 9,000 feet. How do you
think about what does securing the border mean to you and
situational awareness?
Mr. Desrosier. Certainly information, giving and receiving
is of the upmost importance. It is the local landowners, it is
the officer working the beat next to you.
Two things that happened with great significance to me in
my operation most recently is the fact that we were able to
have a Project North Star Meeting--is that what we called it--
in Sunburst recently, where the patrol officers from both sides
of the border sat down and had a common discussion on what
these issues are on the Northern border. And the takeaways of
that was two sheets of paper with everybody's contact
information. So that we could sit right down on our cell phone
in the field and call that person who is working north of us.
And I have used that a couple of times already. And that to me
was very valuable.
That was the first time that we have been able to do that,
in my opinion.
The second thing is, we are struggling with this all the
time, and that's improving our communications. We just do not
have VHF radios capable of talking to the base station when we
are working in the Chief Mountain Deep Creek area. We had
satellite phones. The funding, we are not going to be able to
turn those phones back on until October, because we do not have
the funding for those satellite phones. They were very
valuable. We do not have the dispatch capability, card base
from that area, about that 7 to 10-mile stretch of border up
there. And I think we have made some progress in that field by
identifying a common mutual aid law enforcement channel that we
could talk to Canada on right now. And I think this is the
first in the Northern border where we have had that approval
given by the FCC for Montana officers to do that.
The third thing I wanted to mention is that we have a long
ways to go in the area of communications. We were involved in a
hot pursuit of a border jumper that came down Highway 89. And
we were the third one in a three-car chase. We were tribal
officers in a third-car chase, with two Border Patrol agents
ahead of us. There were still tourists on the road. We ended up
in a traffic jam, and we became the second vehicle in the chase
with no communications car to car, which is very detrimental in
that life or death situation. We are on the dispatch. Dispatch
was on the phone with their dispatch. And it was just a waste
of time to have to go through two dispatchers and back through
repeaters and back to the cars. And the information is
happening so fast, you have to be tuned in right now.
And as it turned out, we ended up getting in front of this
stolen car and got rammed in the back, and we ended up
apprehending the suspect and taking him into custody. But it
was a very serious situation where tribal officers and border
agents could not talk car to car. And we are working on that.
We are making some progress. And hopefully I will not be
telling you this story this time next year or a few years from
now.
Congressman Daines. Thanks, Mr. Desrosier. One more
question for Mr. Kibble, if I could. And Senator Tester, it is
a great question, I was thinking about the Bakken, what is
going on. Wayne Gretzky once said what made him great, he
skates to where the puck is going. And thinking about where we
are going to be the next 5 to 10 years, and probably that long
drive from Denver to Havre, I appreciate the distance. How do
we make sure we are enforcing the immigration laws and so forth
there in the Bakken?
Mr. Kibble. Well, Congressman, we will have to look at how
that evolves. U.S. Attorney Cotter is taking a leadership role
and really trying to immobilize Federal support of that. And I
know that some of the other agencies have seen more of the work
in terms of their violations. We have some other offices from
the Dakotas that are probably responsible, that are closer.
Congressman Daines. Yes.
Mr. Kibble. It is going to be like we handle any other
threat. As we see it evolve, we are going to try to staff that
or address it as we evaluate the resources that are available.
Congressman Daines. Go ahead.
Mr. Kibble. I was going to say to date we have not seen
significant cross-border activity today. But we have to
constantly reassess.
Congressman Daines. I was in Sidney last week, met with
their mayor, their police chief, and their sheriff, and so
forth, and certainly there's concerns out there. I think the
Senator's point, one we want to keep an eye on, to have
presence there, so we can get ahead of it, before it becomes a
bigger problem.
Mr. Kibble. Yes, sir.
Congressman Daines. Thanks for your service.
Senator Tester. Thank you. I want to talk a little bit
about military radar that I have been trying to get on the
Northern border for some time now, because I think it would
help identify low flying aircraft. Now, I understand that DHS
entered into an agreement with the Canadian government in 2011
to begin receiving their radar data. Chief Richards, could you
give me an idea on how his is working or if it is working?
Mr. Richards. Sir, I believe it's better. The AMOC in
Riverside, California, receives the feeds from the radars in
Canada. So we have a better picture of this stuff. It's not the
whole answer, sir, but it's much better.
Senator Tester. OK. Kind of talk to me about agents. It
would appear to me, from my perspective, that you get an agent
like Nathan Burr, worked up here for a while, they know the Hi-
Line pretty well, they know the border pretty well, and I guess
probably the other agents are probably in that same boat, if
they have been here for any length of time. Correct me if I am
wrong, do these folks get moved to the Southern border with
regularity, or is that their call, or is that your call, and
how does that impact your ability to go to sleep at night?
Mr. Richards. Within our ranks, sir, it is voluntary on the
agent's part. Very seldom is there a mandatory relocation of
people from the Northern border to the Southern border. We have
negotiated with the union at the national level the voluntary
relocation program. And we have not seen that for a while,
because funding is still an issue, sir. But that allows agents
to bid for position, them to come north and for our folks to go
south.
Senator Tester. And that whole immigration debate that the
senate had here a month ago or so, visa overstays were a big
issue, has to do with about 40 percent of the undocumented
folks who are in this country right now. At this point in time,
I think our government does a lot of data. The Canadian
government does a lot of data. It would appear to me that some
swapping of that data may be useful to both countries.
Mr. Richards. Sure.
Senator Tester. Can you tell me if that's being done, or if
there's an issue to get that done, or if there's something that
we need to do to help that happen?
Mr. Richards. Sir, at the national level, I honestly cannot
answer that question. I will tell you at the local level, we
work really well through the IMITZ with the RCP, our Canadian
partners. But that's more geographically specific to us. So
generally I do not think I can answer your question.
Senator Tester. OK.
Mr. Kibble. Sir, I would say that the national targeting
center run with border protection has generally been on the
cutting edge of trying to get information sharing agreements
going. And certainly for us, a lot of our visa overstay
enforcement is coordinated from the information sharing that
goes on at the national targeting center. As well as the
university program, the information that we get from
universities in terms of the student overstays.
Senator Tester. OK. Good. All right. Robert, thank you for
being here. I think that you are working in an area that is--
it's not very commonplace on the borders. I mean you have a
reservation, 50, 60 miles of border with Canada. Can you tell
me what is your relationship with CBP as far as, if they think
there's an issue up there, do they get ahold of you? Who do
they get ahold of, or do they just go up? And then if there is
an issue, do you oftentimes contact Chief Richards' office and
say we have something going on up here, we need some help? How
does the process work?
Mr. Desrosier. In my experience, as of right now, it is the
best relationship we have ever had with the Border Patrol. We
can pass information back and forth regularly, and we often do.
Most recently we did have a big case in Blackfeet to where we
called for assistance, and that was handled just perfectly. It
was without a doubt one of the best I have worked. Yes, we do
have a relationship that I think was nonexistent a decade ago.
We do call each other. We were called on that pursuit that I
talked about. And we called back both directions. Working very
well.
Senator Tester. And I think that, as long as stuff works,
it works. Do you see any need for written agreements, and are
there any written agreements? Or is it more person to person,
your relationship with the chief, chief's relationship with
you? And how do you ensure that, after he leaves or after you
leave, that relationship, be able to do business, to be able to
keep our borders secure, continues.
Mr. Desrosier. It is based on relationships, yes. And also
very importantly to me too is sustainability. We have to keep
the same faces in there to develop that level of trust.
Unfortunately in the past we have not been able to do that.
Like I say, I think that's very beneficial to the relationship
that we have today.
Senator Tester. Steve, do you have any other questions?
Congressman Daines. No.
Senator Tester. Well, I would just like to, once again,
thank you all. If there are additional questions that either
Congressman Daines or myself have, we will forward them on to
you and hopefully we can get a response. And for the ones that
did not get answered today, I would sure appreciate responses
on those. With that, I will turn it back to Congressman Daines
for his closing remarks.
Congressman Daines. Sure. Well, I want to thank all of the
panelists today, witnesses, for your thoughtful testimony, as
well as replies to the questions. I want to thank Senator
Tester as well. I really appreciate him setting this up and
allowing us to be here together as Montanans to deal with very
important issues: Securing our Northern border.
It is also refreshing to have a field hearing right here in
Havre instead of the normal hearing setting back in Washington,
DC, where, first of all, it is a lot more humid, Senator, I
will tell you that. But just the clarity to see the issues
here. We talk to people here who it is boots on the ground, and
it is refreshing to get that perspective.
A couple of takeaways I see here, too, certainly there's
opportunities in terms of how we measure what a secure border
means. They say you get what you inspect versus what you
expect, and figuring how we quantify that.
Debbie's comments on the opportunities in the commerce
struck me as well. The upside, they are getting the hours
sorted out, as well as working these regulations of 14 permits.
We have to figure out what is going on there, instead of maybe
four permits 4 years ago. But just thank you for these. It is
going to help me do my job better back in Washington
representing this State and the border north here in Montana.
Thanks, Senator Tester.
Senator Tester. Thank you, Congressman Daines. I very much
appreciate your participation in this hearing too.
And before I get into my closing remarks, there's one thing
I was going to say. Chief Richards, the issue of trains came
up, Congressman Daines brought it up. But I very much
appreciate your proactivity on this issue. I think that it is
an area that needed to be addressed. And I appreciate you
stepping up to the plate and readdressing that issue.
We have covered a fair amount of ground here today. There's
some challenges on our Northern border. There's no ifs, ands,
or butts about that. I think if here's one major takeaway about
it, the better that we can work together, the better we can
communicate together, the better job we are going to be able to
do in meeting the needs of the citizenry of this great country.
This is an issue, by the way, that there should be no
politics. Oftentimes there is, but there should not be. We have
heard politics talked today. But the bottom line is, if we can
get a partnership of elected officials and a partnership of
agency folks, along with a partnership of folks from local
government, I think we can do the best job that we have
possibly done. And I think you guys are well on the road.
I think back to the hearing that we had 5 years ago I
believe here. And there was a different response at that
hearing, entirely different response. So I applaud the folks
who testified and the different agencies that are here today
that did not get a chance to testify for their willingness to
step up, put turf aside as much as possible, and work together
for the betterment of security of that border. Continue to work
with Congressman Daines on this issue, and Senator Baucus, and
our Governor Bullock, and the witnesses who testified here
today to make sure that these issues are addressed as we move
forward.
The hearing record will remain open until July 29 for any
additional comments that might be submitted for the record. And
with that, we will adjourn this hearing.
A P P E N D I X
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