[Senate Hearing 112-635]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 112-635
S. 1898 AND H.R. 1560
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
ON
S. 1898, A BILL TO PROVIDE FOR THE CONVEYANCE OF CERTAIN PROPERTY FROM
THE UNITED STATES TO THE MANIILAQ
ASSOCIATION LOCATED IN KOTZEBUE, ALASKA
H.R. 1560, A BILL TO AMEND THE YSLETA DEL SUR PUEBLO
AND ALABAMA AND COUSHATTA INDIAN TRIBES OF TEXAS
RESTORATION ACT TO ALLOW THE YSLETA DEL SUR PUEBLO TRIBE TO DETERMINE
BLOOD QUANTUM REQUIREMENTS FOR MEMBERSHIP IN THAT TRIBE
__________
MARCH 22, 2012
__________
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COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS
DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii, Chairman
JOHN BARRASSO, Wyoming, Vice Chairman
DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii JOHN McCAIN, Arizona
KENT CONRAD, North Dakota LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
TIM JOHNSON, South Dakota JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington MIKE CRAPO, Idaho
JON TESTER, Montana MIKE JOHANNS, Nebraska
TOM UDALL, New Mexico
AL FRANKEN, Minnesota
Loretta A. Tuell, Majority Staff Director and Chief Counsel
David A. Mullon Jr., Minority Staff Director and Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on March 22, 2012................................... 1
Statement of Senator Akaka....................................... 1
Statement of Senator Murkowski................................... 1
Statement of Senator Udall....................................... 9
Witnesses
Gillette, Jodi, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs,
U.S. Department of the Interior................................ 3
Prepared statement........................................... 3
Hansen, Paul, Deputy Administrator, Maniilaq Health Center....... 12
Prepared statement........................................... 13
Hisa, Hon. Carlos, Lieutenant Governor, Ysleta Del Sur Pueblo;
accompanied by Janette Hernandez, Tribal Member................ 14
Prepared statement........................................... 15
McSwain, Robert, Deputy Director for Management Operations,
Indian Health Service, U.S. Department of Health and Human
Services....................................................... 4
Prepared statement........................................... 5
S. 1898 AND H.R. 1560
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THURSDAY, MARCH 22, 2012
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Indian Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:15 p.m. in room
628, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Daniel K. Akaka,
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DANIEL K. AKAKA,
U.S. SENATOR FROM HAWAII
Senator Akaka. The Committee will come to order.
Aloha and welcome to all of you here to this hearing.
Today, the Committee will be considering two pieces of
legislation that have been referred to this Committee for
action.
The first one that we will be considering is S. 1898, which
was introduced by my good friend and colleague Senator
Murkowski and provides for the conveyance of property from the
United States to the Maniilaq Association in Alaska. The House
companion bill, H.R. 443, has been passed by the House.
The second bill we will be considering is H.R. 1560, which
amends the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo settlement to allow the Tribe
to determine its own membership requirements. This bill also
has been passed by the House.
Today, we will be hearing from the Department of the
Interior and the Indian Health Service to receive the
Administration's views on these bills. We will also hear from
the affected Tribes to learn how these bills will impact our
members back home and, of course, are delighted to hear from
our member from Alaska.
I am pleased to hold this hearing so that we can begin the
process of moving both bills through the Senate. The record for
today's hearing for will remain open for two weeks. So, I
encourage any interested parties to submit written testimony
for the record.
And now I would like to call on Senator Murkowski for any
opening statement she may have.
STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI,
U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA
Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you
for scheduling this hearing today and for an opportunity to
bring up a bill that I have introduced, S. 1898. I appreciate
the Committee considering this issue before us and thank the
Administration witnesses that are here to not only speak to the
merits of this bill, but also thank you for what you do in
working with us on the issues that affect so many of our Alaska
Native constituents, not only with the healthcare issues that
we deal with but so many of the other concerns that we have. I
appreciate that.
The bill that I have introduced, Mr. Chairman, is a
critical tool that I believe will help improve the delivery of
health services to the residents of rural northwest Alaska. It
is a pretty straightforward approach to assist Maniilaq in
expanding and improving their current healthcare services. As
you know, the House has already passed an equivalent version of
the bill. I note that it passed by a pretty remarkable margin,
407 to 4. So I do not know what the objections of the four were
but it is important that it did receive considerable support
there.
I do agree with Congressman Young when he said that this
bill will do more than just transfer land. He was spot on in
pinpointing the significance of this bill as one that will
allow Maniilaq the opportunity to expand and essentially to
improve the health and well-being of all Alaska Natives who
live up in that northwestern region.
The Maniilaq Association, for those who are not familiar
with it, provides health, social and Tribal services to
residents of 12 villages that are located in the Northwest
Arctic Borough, and this bill will promote the much needed
growth and expansion of a well-established and a successful, a
very successful, rural Native healthcare provider.
The witness who is joining us today will be the first up on
Panel II, Mr. Paul Hansen, who is the Special Projects
Coordinator and I will welcome and acknowledge Paul's presence
here before the Committee. I am going to be dashing downstairs
and going and testifying on another energy bill that I have and
then I will try to come back up here. But if I do not get back
up before the Second Panel, I would like to just briefly,
again, welcome Paul, thank him for his testimony.
Many who know him know that he is not only the Deputy
Administrator for Maniilaq Health Center but he is also a long-
term competitive dog musher. And for those who follow the great
races in Alaska, whether it is the Yukon Quest or the Iditarod,
which we just completed, we take great pride in those who are
engaged in this incredible sport and activity. He and his wife,
Margaret, routinely win sprint races and his wife is a long-
time school board member and elected Tribal council member of
the Kotzebue IRA. They are both very active community members
and we appreciate a great deal that Paul has traveled all the
way from Kotzebue to be here today and taking time from his
duties to testify before the Committee.
So with that, Mr. Chairman, I will turn it back to you and
again I am going to pop downstairs and try to get back up. But
if I do not have an opportunity, I appreciate, again, the
chance to welcome our witness and thank you for moving these
bills.
Senator Akaka. Thank you very much, Senator Murkowski. It
is good to hear from you on this bill.
Let me at this time introduce our first panel, Ms. Jodi
Gillette, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Indian Affairs at the
Department of the Interior, and Mr. Robert McSwain, Deputy
Director for Management Operations at the Indian Health Service
in the Department of Health and Human Services.
Ms. Gillette, will you please proceed with your testimony.
STATEMENT OF JODI GILLETTE, DEPUTY ASSISTANT
SECRETARY FOR INDIAN AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
Ms. Gillette. Thank you, Chairman Akaka and thank you,
Members of the Committee, Honorable Murkowski, for the
opportunity to provide the Department's position on H.R. 1560,
a bill that will amend the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo and Alabama
Coushatta Indian Tribes of Texas Restoration Act.
The Department of Interior supports H.R. 1560 which will
allow the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo to determine the membership of
their Tribe. Back in 1987, Congress passed the Restoration Act
which restored the Federal trust relationship between the
Federal Government and the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo. This
Restoration Act, as passed, prescribed the membership for the
Tribe to only those individuals on the Tribe's 1984 membership
roll and to their descendants with at least one-eighth or more
Tigua-Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Indian blood and who are enrolled
by the Tribe.
H.R. 1560 would amend the Restoration Act to enable the
Tribe to determine for themselves the blood quantum
requirements, if any, for membership into the Tribe. The
proposed amendment would delete the one-eighth blood quantum
requirement and replace this requirement with ``any person of
Tigua-Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Indian blood enrolled by the
Tribe.'' This amendment would allow the Tribe to determine
their own enrollment criteria, as any other federally-
recognized Tribe has the right to do.
The Department is in receipt of copies of Tribal
resolutions from the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Tribal Council in
support of this change to the blood quantum requirements stated
within this legislation. Also, the Department supports the
Tribe's request to determine its criteria for membership which
is consistent with the Administration's support for the
policies of self-governance and self-determination for all
federally-recognized Tribes.
Currently, the Tribal enrollment for the Ysleta del Sur
Pueblo is 1,691 members and the Department does not expect an
additional Tribal priority allocation-based funding amount to
be awarded to the Tribe regardless of the changes in the size
of the Tribe.
I will be happy to answer any questions the Committee may
have.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Gillette follows:]
Prepared Statement of Jodi Gillette, Deputy Assistant Secretary for
Indian Affairs, U.S. Department of the Interior
Good morning Mr. Chairman, Vice Chairman, and Members of the
Committee. My name is Jodi Gillette. I am the Deputy Assistant
Secretary for Indian Affairs at the Department of the Interior
(Department). I am here today to provide the Department's position on
H.R. 1560, a bill to amend the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo and Alabama
Coushatta Indian Tribes of Texas Restoration Act to allow the Ysleta
del Sur Pueblo Tribe to determine blood quantum requirements for
membership in their Tribe. The Department supports H.R. 1560.
Background
In 1987 Congress passed the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo and Alabama and
Coushatta Indian Tribes of Texas Restoration Act (Restoration Act),
which restored the federal trust relationship between the Federal
Government and the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo (Tribe).
The Restoration Act, 25 U.S.C. 1300G-7(a)(2)(i), prescribes
membership for the Tribe to only those individuals on the Tribe's 1984
Membership Roll, and to their descendants with at least \1/8\ or more
Tigua-Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Indian blood and who are enrolled by the
Tribe. This codified criterion has been adopted into Article 3, Section
3.01, of the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Code of Laws. Currently the tribal
enrollment for the Ysleta Del Sur Pueblo is 1,691 members. Indian
Affairs cannot find any other instances where a Tribe's membership is
bound by a blood quantum requirement under Federal statute.
H.R. 1560
H.R. 1560 would amend the Restoration Act to enable the Tribe to
determine for themselves the blood-quantum requirements, if any, for
membership into the Tribe. The proposed amendment would delete the \1/
8\ blood quantum requirement and replace the current requirement with
``any person of Tigua-Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Indian blood enrolled by
the tribe.'' This amendment would allow the Tribe to determine their
own enrollment criteria, as any other federally-recognized tribe has
the right to do.
While the legislation would allow the Tribe to determine the size
of its own membership, the Department does not expect an additional
Tribal Priority Allocation base funding amount to be awarded to the
Tribe.
Indian tribes have the inherent authority to determine their
membership. The Supreme Court has noted, ``A tribe's right to define
its own membership for tribal purposes has long been recognized as
central to its existence as an independent political community.'' See
Santa Clara Pueblo v. Martinez, 436 U.S. 49 (1978). The Department is
in receipt of copies of tribal resolutions from the Ysleta del Sur
Pueblo Tribal Council in support of the change to the blood quantum
requirements stated within the legislation. The Department supports the
Tribe's request to determine its criteria for membership, which is
consistent with the Administration's support for the policies of Self-
Governance and Self-Determination for all federally recognized tribes.
Conclusion
This concludes my prepared statement. I will be happy to answer any
questions the Committee may have.
Senator Akaka. Thank you very much, Ms. Gillette.
Mr. McSwain. will you please proceed with your testimony.
STATEMENT OF ROBERT McSWAIN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR MANAGEMENT
OPERATIONS, INDIAN HEALTH SERVICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
AND HUMAN SERVICES
Mr. McSwain. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members of the
Committee. Good afternoon.
I am Robert McSwain, as announced, the Deputy Director of
Management Operations of the Indian Health Service, and I am
pleased to have the opportunity to testify on S. 1898 for the
Maniilaq Association, providing for the conveyance of Indian
Health Service real property located in Kotzebue, Alaska.
In 1995, the, I think it is important to kind of point out
some really important points that build to where we are. In
1995, the Maniilaq Association in Kotzebue, Alaska assumed
responsibility for provision of IHS-funded services under the
authority of the Indian Self-Determination and Education Act.
They took over operating a program that the Indian Health
Services had previously operated.
On March 31, 2009, IHS transferred the ownership of the
Maniilaq Health Center and Hospital by the use of quitclaim
deed. So, after completing an environmental review and
certification on November 18, 2009, two additional parcels of
property named in this bill, including staff quarters, were
transferred. Important point. We, the last environmental
assessment assurance was made in 2009, three years ago.
S. 1898 provides for the conveyance of Kotzebue property
from the United States to the Maniilaq Association and proposes
to modify the existing quitclaim by transferring, requiring the
use of a warranty deed. A warranty deed is a fee simple, free,
clear title to the property.
IHS supports this bill because it views the proposed
transfer as furthering the special partnership that exists
between American Indian and Alaska Native Tribal governments,
and moreover is in keeping with a Presidential Memorandum on
administrative flexibility as it pertains to Tribal
governments.
It is important to emphasize as a normal practice we do not
transfer properties via the warranty deed process mechanism.
However, we will support the exception in this case because of
the Tribe's initiative to expand access to its healthcare
system for its community members.
We do believe the language in S. 1898 relating to
environmental liability needs to be clarified so that the
Maniilaq Association is responsible for any environmental
contamination which may occur or arise as of or after the date
of the 2009 conveyance. And the reversionary clause language
should be clarified to apply should the Association cease to
use the property for health purposes.
It is important to point out that since 2009 there have
been no existing problems with the current quitclaim deed
signed in 2009 with the Maniilaq Association.
So, we look forward to working with you, Mr. Chairman, on
measures like these to improve the health of the Alaska Native
population.
Mr. Chairman, this concludes my testimony. I appreciate the
opportunity to appear before you in support of S. 1898 and will
be happy to answer any questions that you might have.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. McSwain follows:]
Prepared Statement of Robert McSwain, Deputy Director for Management
Operations, Indian Health Service, U.S. Department of Health and Human
Services
Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee:
Good afternoon. I am Robert McSwain, Deputy Director for Management
Operations of the Indian Health Service (IHS). I am pleased to have the
opportunity to testify on the S. 1898 for the Maniilaq Association,
providing for the conveyance of Indian Health Service (IHS) real
property located in Kotzebue, Alaska.
The Indian Health Service plays a unique role in the Department of
Health and Human Services (HHS) because it is a health care system that
was established to meet the federal trust responsibility to provide
health care to American Indians and Alaska Natives (AI/ANs). The
mission of the IHS, in partnership with American Indian and Alaska
Native people, is to raise the physical, mental, social, and spiritual
health of AI/ANs to the highest level. The IHS provides comprehensive
health service delivery to approximately 2.1 million AI/ANs through 31
Hospitals, 50 health centers, 31 health stations and 2 school health
centers. Tribes also provide healthcare access through an additional 15
hospitals, 254 health centers, 166 Alaska Village Clinics, 112 health
stations and 18 school health centers. In support of the IHS mission,
the IHS and Tribes provide access to functional, well maintained and
accredited health care facilities and staff housing.
S. 1898 deals with the conveyance of lands located in Kotzebue,
Alaska which were used by the Federal Government for the delivery of
IHS services. In 1995 the Maniilaq Association in Kotzebue, Alaska
assumed responsibility for the provision of the IHS-funded health care
services under the authority of the Indian Self-Determination and
Education Assistance Act (ISDEAA). Some of the federal property, which
had been used in connection with health and related programs in
Kotzebue, Alaska by the IHS, was transferred through quit claim deeds
to the Maniilaq Association.
S. 1898 provides for the conveyance of the Kotzebue property from
the United States to the Maniilaq Association and proposes to modify
the existing quit claim deed transfer by requiring the use of a
warranty deed. On March 31, 2009, IHS transferred ownership of the
Maniilaq Health Center/Hospital. After completing an environmental
review and certification on November 18, 2009, the two additional
parcels of property, named in this bill, including staff quarters, were
transferred.
The IHS supports this bill because it views the proposed transfer
as furthering the special partnership that exists with American Indian
and Alaska Native tribal governments, and, moreover, is in keeping with
the Presidential Memorandum on Administrative Flexibility as it
pertains to tribal governments. It is important to emphasize that, as a
normal practice, we do not transfer properties via the warranty deed
mechanism. However, we will support an exception in this case, because
of the Tribe's initiative to expand access to its health care system
for community members. This proposal will give the Maniilaq Association
flexibility to leverage additional resources because ownership of the
property under a warranty deed will give them unencumbered ownership of
the property described in S. 1898.
We do believe the language, relating to environmental liability,
needs to be clarified so the Maniilaq Association is responsible for
any environmental contamination which may occur or arise ``as of or
after the date of the 2009 conveyance''; and, the ``reversionary
clause'' language should be clarified to apply, should the Association
cease to use the property for health purposes.
We do not believe there will be reasons to use this mechanism in
future cases. There are no existing problems with the current quit
claim deed signed in 2009 with the Maniilaq Association. Traditionally,
the Alaska Native Corporations have preferred to leave the title of
their facilities previously operated by the IHS with the Federal
Government. It is highly unlikely there will be similar requests from
Tribes in the other 35 states to have warranty deeds since they are
currently on tribally owned lands and the government leases property
from them for the health care facilities. This warranty deed transfer
would be the first of its kind in Alaska, since only one other property
was transferred to the Southeast Alaska Regional Health Corporation
through a quit claim deed.
Concerning retrocession, we think it unlikely. We can count only
four retrocessions since the enactment of ISDEAA in 1975 and these were
only small program components and three have been re-assumed by the
Tribes. None of these were in the Alaska Area.
We look forward to working with you, Mr. Chairman, on measures like
these to improve the health of the Alaska Native population. Mr.
Chairman, this concludes my testimony. I appreciate the opportunity to
appear before you to discuss S. 1898. I will be happy to answer any
questions the committee may have. Thank you.
Senator Akaka. Well, thank you very much and we look
forward to working with you also. Thank you so much for your
statements.
Ms. Gillette, can you elaborate on how the right of Tribes
to determine their own membership furthers the Administration's
support for self-governance and self-determination.
Ms. Gillette. I think that, consistent with the many, many
years of history related to the ways that the Federal
Government has worked with Indian Tribes, we are very, very
supportive of the Tribe's right to determine their own
membership. And that is based upon how Tribes have made it
through the different eras of history.
The Supreme Court in Santa Clara versus Martinez affirmed
the Tribes' right, inherent right, to determine its own
membership and this is something that we feel very strongly
about as it relates to how a Tribe governs itself and its
members. And when there are statutory provisions in place that
limits a Tribe's ability to determine their own membership,
that is actually going against the line of reasoning that you
would have a Tribe determine, be self-determining, and self-
governing.
Senator Akaka. Well, this of course has been a goal of many
of our indigenous peoples and we are fortunate to have an
Administration that has indicated support for the indigenous
people. And of course we want, in this case, the Tribes that we
are talking about, to be able to use whatever the laws and
policies or regulations are in place to help bring this about.
So, thanks for the elaboration of the rights of the Tribes to
determine their own membership.
Mr. McSwain, can you describe the next steps in the process
of transferring the property of this legislation if it is
passed and tell us what the time frame would be for conveying
the property?
Mr. McSwain. Thanks for the question, Mr. Chairman. The
first step we are going to do, obviously, is go back and make
sure that the land is free of any environmental concerns before
we move to a warranty conveyance. We estimate 60 to 90 days on
the conveyance depending on how many places we have got to go.
I am sure that this is new for us. I should point out in
the history of the Indian Health Service we have never done a
warranty transfer. So, I am being optimistic when I say 90
days, but we are going to have to involve some other people,
obviously in administration, to review what we are doing to
make sure we are doing it correctly.
But, there is no experience within the Indian Health
Service of actually doing this. So we will be certainly looking
at the department for their help and other departments as
necessary. But that is sort of a gauge right now that I am
looking at. It could take a little bit longer but should not
take that much longer and we will certainly keep the Maniilaq
Association apprised as we move forward.
Senator Akaka. I am so glad that you mention about looking
at other departments and agencies because this is a rather new
process for you and I want to commend you on that, tell you
that I hope you can develop that partnership of working
together with other agencies and departments to move some of
these things along.
And I must tell you at this point in time that I applaud
the President's style of moving things quickly. You know,
instead of, for instance, having a commission, which is a
formal group, to deal with an issue and then to put the group
together and to get a chairman, it can take easily six months
plus to bring that around. And by the time the commission gets
to work, it is a year gone. Well, anyway, there goes the time.
It takes a lot of time and it is more formal in
organization. Whereas the President is the type that will say
well, it is an issue that we need to do right now, get a team
together of experts in that area and have them come together
and work on whatever the issue is and when an answer is then
recommended, that is it for the team. But it moves, as you can
see, quickly. Your intent to include discussions with other
agencies and departments is really a good thing to do and can
help to move this. And you are honest to say you think 60 to 90
but you are not sure about what is going to happen. But from
what you have said, I think that you will try your best to move
as quickly as you can. Yes.
Let me give you, and ask you, and give you an opportunity
to make any further remarks, both of you, about this issue
because, I do not know the exact number but there are about
more than 500 Tribes that you have to deal with on a continent
that is considered American Indian Tribes, not counting the
Alaskan, and so many things are coming along and we are trying
to push these Tribes to be more vocal. This is why, as you
know, at every hearing I am saying please, if you want to, you
know, tell us something, do that, please. You have two weeks to
do it.
But the whole idea is to try to get the people out there,
the indigenous people, in this case the Tribes, to voice their
opinions. And so for them to be able to self-govern and
determination, you know, use that more wisely and more often,
you know, may be good. And I just wanted to have any further
comments from either of you along those issues.
Ms. Gillette?
Ms. Gillette. In terms of what the Assistant Secretary and
the Secretary have talked about a lot of the time is really
giving tools to the Tribes to further their ability to self-
govern and self-determine and I think that it has been
tremendous to be able to work with your Committee and the
Members of the Committee on how we can advance doing that.
And I think that there is always a balance between funding
considerations and how the Government is going to be able to
provide tools when sometimes the tools cost money. And things
like this, this bill, H.R. 1560, this is something that is
going to allow for the Tribe to empower itself in a way that
was limited by statute and we do not feel like it costs
anything to the Federal taxpayers to do that.
Each Tribe has a Tribal priority allocation-based funding,
and that is pretty set, and whether a Tribe grows, whether it
is through birth or through new members being identified in
other cities or something like that, like, you know, when
people are relocated and then a big family comes in through
Indian Child Welfare Act or something like that, Tribes grow
and through natural processes and the TPA does not usually, is
not usually impacted by those kind of changes.
And so, this is something that will not cost anything and
it is a really good thing, I think. The more that we can remove
some of those statutory or regulatory things that hinder Tribes
to govern themselves, everybody wins in those cases.
Thank you.
Chairman Akaka. Thank you very much.
Mr. McSwain.
Mr. McSwain. Mr. Chairman, I was just reflecting on your
question and I would say that if Dr. Roubideaux were sitting
here today addressing this issue she would say what this does
is further something very important to her, which is further
the Tribal-Government relationship. And this is another way.
And for purposes of our mission of delivering healthcare,
whatever we can do to help the Tribes do that and to self-
determine, in the case of Maniilaq, this is, and I will say
that we say that with a lot of concerns about making sure this
one is right, that no one fails and that there is no problem
with it.
But there is a lot of trust involved. We trust that they
will do what they are committed to do and we will trust that we
will follow their lead. That is what I believe Dr. Roubideaux
would say if she were here.
Senator Akaka. Well, thank you very much. Thank you for
your responses.
And now we are delighted to have our Senator Udall here and
I would like to call on you for any opening statement or
questions you may have.
STATEMENT OF HON. TOM UDALL,
U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO
Senator Udall. Chairman Akaka, thank you very much. And
thank you for holding this very important hearing.
The two bills you have today coming before the Committee I
think are of great importance to many communities of Native
Americans and Alaska Natives. And I would like to take a minute
to focus especially on the second bill, which is H.R. 1560, a
bill that would amend the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo and Alabama and
Coushatta Indian Tribes of Texas Restoration Act.
The Ysleta del Sur Pueblo is a member of the All Indian
Pueblo Council, headquartered in New Mexico. The All Indian
Pueblo Council has 19 members. I believe the Ysleta del Sur is
the 20th member. So these are all pueblos in New Mexico or
nearby New Mexico and, in fact, the Tribe is originally from
New Mexico and maintains relationships with other pueblos in
New Mexico.
H.R. 1560 already passed this Committee the last Congress
and has passed in the full House in three consecutive
Congresses. So, we have had a bill that has some real life and
has shown that it can get through three different Congresses
and we need to get the job done on this one.
H.R. 1560 would simply allow the Yselta del Sur Tribe the
same right that other Tribes justifiably enjoy, the right to
determine who can be enrolled in the Tribe. Specifically, the
bill would release the Tribe from the current one-eighth degree
requirement and allow the Tribe to determine blood quantum
requirements for Tribal membership. It is a simple bill. It is
a good bill. I look forward to hearing related testimony and
urge my colleagues to support H.R. 1560 and the efforts of the
Ylseta del Sur Pueblo to exercise self-determination.
I would also say that the All Indian Pueblo Council
supports H.R. 1560. They have advised me of this, they have
passed a resolution, and they want it to be known that they are
very supportive of H.R. 1560.
[The information referred to follows:]
So with that, Chairman Akaka, I thank this panel of
witnesses and look forward to the Second Panel.
Senator Akaka. Thank you. Thank you very much, Senator
Udall. And I want to thank our first panel. Thank you for being
here and supporting our bill. Thank you.
I would like to invite the second panel to the witness
table, Mr. Paul Hansen, who is the Deputy Administrator at the
Maniilaq Health Center in Kotzebue, Alaska, and Honorable
Carlos Hisa, Lieutenant Governor of the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo
in El Paso, Texas. Accompanying Lieutenant Governor Hisa is Ms.
Janette Hernandez, a Tribal member with the Ysleta del Sur
Pueblo.
Mr. Hansen, please proceed with your testimony.
STATEMENT OF PAUL HANSEN, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATOR, MANIILAQ HEALTH
CENTER
Mr. Hansen. Thank you, Chairman, Mr. Senator.
My name is Paul Hansen. I am the Deputy Administrator at
Maniilaq Health Center in Kotzebue. I am here on behalf of the
Maniilaq Association.
Maniilaq is an Association of 12 Tribal governments in
northwest Alaska. The association is a regional non-profit
health corporation and we provide services under the self-
governance provisions of the Indian Self-Determination and
Education Assistance Act.
I have worked for the Association now for more than 30
years and have seen a lot of advancement in the provision of
services and the way that we have been able to provide those
services as the Self-Determination Act has been amended. I
think the self-governance provisions of the ISDEAA have
resulted in very good things.
The Association started contracting with the Indian Health
Service back in the late 1970s and in the early 1980s. In 1988,
the Association contracted for the hospital operations in
Kotzebue and assumed all of the Indian Health Service
responsibilities for provision of services to the service area.
In 1995, we were one of the original signers of the Alaska
Tribal Health Compact and started providing those services
under self-governance.
Today, we are here in support of Senate Bill 1898. As you
have mentioned, there is a companion bill that was passed by
the House, H.R. 443. Because of where we are in the legislative
session, I would ask that this Committee approve the House
version of that bill. Those two bills differ a little bit in
the way they were drafted but the content is substantially the
same. That way, that would keep us from going back and either
having the House re-approve the bill or a conference being
needed to work out the details of that.
The bill provides for conversion from a quitclaim deed to a
warranty deed of three parcels of property in Kotzebue. One
parcel is the property that the hospital sits on and the two
other parcels hold quarters for the folks who work at the
hospital and in the new long-term care center.
Some of the impetus for this action came as a result of our
recent completion of a long-term care center that was co-
located to the Maniilaq Health Center in Kotzebue. We are very
proud of that facility. It was a long-time dream of the board
to be able to provide long-term care services in the region.
Until now, when elders needed that level of medical care they
had to move down to Anchorage, which is over 500 air miles
away, which separated them from their families during their
last days. It was really a sad situation that now has been
alleviated. So we are very proud and excited about the new
program.
We would like to convert these quitclaim deeds to warranty
deeds because of some inadequacies that are in the provisions
of the quitclaim deeds. The quitclaim deed imposes some
conditions and obligations that are beyond those that are
required in the Indian Self-Determination Act. We would like
the deeds to reflect only those conditions that the Act also
imposes. Additionally, the quitclaim deed contains some
reversionary clauses again that go beyond what are required by
the Indian Self-Determination Act.
We would like a warranty deed that would eliminate both
those inadequacies of the quitclaim deeds and help us have more
security in that property and more fully use the property for
its true value.
With that, I would like to thank the Committee for allowing
me to represent our Tribes here and provide the testimony.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Hansen follows:]
Prepared Statement of Paul Hansen, Deputy Administrator, Maniilaq
Health Center
My name is Paul Hansen and I am the Deputy Administrator for the
Maniilaq Health Center and I am pleased to testify before this
Committee on behalf of the Maniilaq Association. The Maniilaq
Association is an Alaska Native regional non-profit organization
representing twelve tribes in Northwest Alaska. We strongly support S.
1898, legislation that would convey certain property from the United
States to the Maniilaq Association located in Kotzebue, Alaska. We
thank the Alaska congressional delegation for introducing and moving
this legislation.
The Maniilaq Association has for many years carried out a range of
health and social services programs in the Northwest Arctic Borough on
behalf of its member Alaska Native villages under the Self- Governance
provisions of the Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance
Act (ISDEAA). Maniilaq Association carries out these programs in
accordance with the Alaska Tribal Health Compact with the United States
and Funding Agreements with the Indian Health Service.
As you know, the House has passed companion legislation to S. 1898
(H.R. 443 introduced by Representative Don Young). While the bills have
some minor drafting differences they are substantively the same and
would accomplish the same things. In the interest of not having to have
a conference on this legislation or the House being required to re-pass
it, we recommend that the Senate approve the House-passed bill. We know
there is little floor time left in this session, and are concerned that
requiring the House to act again would endanger enactment of this
legislation. The bills would require the Secretary of Health and Human
Services to convey to the Maniilaq Association property located in
Kotzebue, Alaska, for use in connection with these health and social
service programs. The property to be conveyed consists of three parcels
of land including buildings and appurtenances on the land.
The first parcel is an 8.10 acre tract on which the Maniilaq Health
Center is located and on which the Maniilaq Association recently
completed the construction of a long term care facility adjacent to the
Health Center. Completion of this project has been a long term goal of
Maniilaq Association and was the product of many years of work. In
connection with this project Maniilaq Association unsuccessfully sought
authorization from Indian Health Service to build the long term care
facility as an addition to the Health Center which was owned by the
Indian Health Service. Finally, after several years of discussion,
Maniilaq Association realized that to keep the project moving it had no
option but to agree with the Indian Health Service's suggestion that it
accept title to the property. The parcel was transferred by the Indian
Health Service to the Maniilaq Association through a Quitclaim Deed
issued by the Indian Health Service to the Maniilaq Association on
March 31, 2009. Final construction of the 18 bed facility was completed
last year. The facility was dedicated in October, 2011 and its first
residents moved in that same month.
The second and third parcels described in S. 1898/H.R. 443 are land
on which housing for employees of the Health Center and long term care
facility is located. The Indian Health Service transferred these
parcels to Maniilaq Association approximately six months after the
first parcel was transferred.
The conveyance required by S. 1898/H.R. 443 will be through a
warranty deed without consideration and without imposing any
obligation, term, or condition on the Maniilaq Association, or
reversionary interest in the United States, other than required by S.
1898/H.R. 443 itself or by section 51 2(c)(2)(B) of the ISDEAA. This
makes the conveyance required by S. 1898/H.R. 443 consistent with the
ISDEAA, which allows reversion of title back to the United States, at
the option of the Secretary, only upon retrocession or withdrawal by
the Maniilaq Association from the Alaska Tribal Health Compact or re-
assumption of the compacted programs by the Indian Health Service.
The warranty deed required by S. 1898/H.R. 443 will supersede the
Quitclaim Deed issued by the Secretary to the Maniilaq Association on
March 31, 2009. The quitclaim deed includes provisions for Indian
Health Service control of the Maniilaq Association's use of the
property which are inconsistent with conveyance of title under the
ISDEAA. For example, the quitclaim deed requires Indian Health Service
approval for any mortgage or encumbrance of the property as security
for construction or other loans for improvements on the property.
Indian Health Service approval is also required for any contract which
would impact the value of the property. This gives the Indian Health
Service continuing control over the Maniilaq Association's use of the
property. Breach of these requirements, which are made covenants
running with the land, results in an immediate reversion of title back
to the Indian Health Service. This goes far beyond the conditions for
reversion of title back to the United States in section 51 2(c)(2)(B)
of the ISDEAA.
While a quitclaim deed transfers the grantor's interest in the
property, it does not warrant that the title is valid. Transfer by
warranty deed, which requires special legislation, expressly guarantees
the grantor's good and clear title and contains covenants concerning
the quality of title, freedom from encumbrances, and defense of title
against other claims. This gives the Maniilaq Association more security
in its title and more flexibility in use of the property in carrying
out health and social services programs for its member villages.
S. 1898/H.R. 443 exempts the Maniilaq Association from liability
for environmental contamination or hazards, as defined in Federal law,
present on the property as of the date of conveyance, notwithstanding
any provision of Federal law. S. 1898/H.R. 443 does not pre-empt state
environmental laws and the Secretary is granted any easement or access
to the property which may be necessary for the Secretary to satisfy any
retained environmental obligations and liability prior to conveyance.
The Secretary must also comply with the notice and warranty provisions
of the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and
Liability Act (CERCLA) applicable to transfer of property owned by the
United States on which any hazardous substance was stored for one year
or more, known to be released, or disposed of on the property.
Enactment of S. 1898/H.R. 443 will enable the Maniilaq Association
to exercise its rights of ownership in the transferred property
consistent with the ISDEAA and the principles of self-governance.
On behalf of the Maniilaq Association, including our twelve
constituent villages and their members, we thank the Committee for
holding this hearing on S. 1898.
Senator Akaka. Thank you very much.
And now, Lieutenant Governor Hisa, you proceed with your
testimony.
STATEMENT OF HON. CARLOS HISA, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, YSLETA DEL
SUR PUEBLO; ACCOMPANIED BY JANETTE
HERNANDEZ, TRIBAL MEMBER
Mr. Hisa. Thank you. Good afternoon Chairman, Senator
Udall.
First of all, thank you for giving the Pueblo the
opportunity to come and testify in support of H.R. 1560.
Quick introductions. My name is Carlos Hisa. I am the
Lieutenant Governor for the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo-Tigua Nation
located in El Paso, Texas. I have served in this capacity for
11 terms, which is 11 years. With me today is our Governor,
Frank Paiz, our Legislative Assistant, Jessica Cordova and
Janette Hernandez, a Tribal member, a student, an intern in our
Social Services Department and a mother. She also provided
written testimony that is attached to my packet in which she
gives examples of what she faces because of this limitation on
a constant basis at home.
Senator Akaka. Well, welcome to all of you.
Mr. Hisa. Thank you.
We are here to ask the Committee to favorably support H.R.
1560 and get it out of Committee and into the Senate for a
vote, hopefully by this spring. There is a sense of urgency. We
have identified a couple of descendants that need our
assistance with their ICWA cases and educational services that
we want to provide.
The amendment in this bill just gives the Tribe the
opportunity to determine its own membership. It is something
that every Tribe in the nation practices and we are limited.
This is interfering in our sovereignty, self-determination and
self-governance. So, we are strongly pushing this and hopefully
we can get it passed.
As mentioned by Senator Udall, this is not the first time
this bill has been introduced to the Congress. A year and a
half ago we managed to get it out of the House successfully
with no opposition. When it came to the Senate, there was a CBO
report that was introduced which stated that the Federal
Government would be responsible financially for the increase in
the population. That was an incorrect statement. As much as we
tried to correct that, we ran out of time and it failed to pass
the Senate.
This year, we again managed to get it out of the House
successfully with no opposition and it is in the Senate. Since
then, we have corrected that CBO report. The CBO now states
that our funding is not based on population. It is on formulas
that were put into place back in 1987 when we were recognized.
And again, it is not based on population. Our population will
increase, but again, the Federal Government will not be
responsible for giving us any additional dollars for this.
The bill is something that the Tribe has prioritized. We
really want to stress that and wish that we can get it out by
this spring, if possible.
I am here to answer any questions. So is Janette Hernandez.
She is a prime example of what the bill has created. It has a
created identity crises in situations amongst our youth in our
Tribal community and she experiences this every day. As you can
see from the picture here, that is her daughter who is a
descendant. I would like, if you could give her some time so
she can explain the types of things that she faces at home.
I am at your disposal to answer any questions that you may
have.
Thank you for the opportunity.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Hisa follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Carlos Hisa, Lieutenant Governor, Ysleta Del
Sur Pueblo; accompanied by Janette Hernandez, Tribal Member
Good afternoon Mr. Chairman, honorable members of the Senate
Committee on Indian Affairs. My name is Carlos Hisa and I am
accompanied by Janette Hernandez, an enrolled member of Ysleta del Sur
Pueblo whose children are directly impacted by the blood quantum limit
requirements for tribal membership. Her statement is attached hereto as
Exhibit A. I am a member of Ysleta del Sur Pueblo located in El Paso
County, Texas. For the past 11 years I have served as the Lt. Governor
of the Pueblo. My term of office is one year. The matter under
consideration has been a priority for the Pueblo since before my first
term.
H.R. 1560 is about freedom--freedom from intrusive federal control.
Beginning in the 1970s, this Congress embarked on a new federal Indian
policy. You rejected the destructive policies of termination of Indian
tribes, assimilation of Indian people and their culture, and the
dispossession and despoiling of Indian lands. Instead, you created the
present self-determination era of Indian law to free Indian tribes from
an overreaching Federal Government. This Congress has encouraged Indian
tribes to take up the mantle of self-government as distinct and
independent political entities. Critical to that task is the ability of
an Indian tribe to determine its own membership. The Supreme Court has
noted, ``A tribe's right to define its own membership for tribal
purposes has long been recognized as central to its existence as an
independent political community.'' See Santa Clara Pueblo v. Martinez,
436 U.S. 49 (1978). Community determination of its own membership is
inherently the most internal of all tribal matters.
The Pueblo has occupied its present location since the Spaniards
removed it from New Mexico during the Pueblo Revolt of 1680. The Pueblo
has existed at its present location twice as long as the State of Texas
has been in existence. It is the longest continually occupied community
in Texas. It is the only Indian Pueblo still existing in Texas. It
recently rejoined the All Indian Pueblo Council after being absent for
over 330 years. The Council now comprises twenty Pueblos.
In 1968, toward the end of the termination era, Congress recognized
the Pueblo as an Indian tribe and transferred federal trust
responsibilities for the Pueblo to the State of Texas. On August 18,
1987, the United States Congress restored the Federal trust
relationship between the United States and the Pueblo. In the
Restoration Act, Congress imposed a \1/8\ Tigua blood quantum
requirement for membership.
No other Indian tribe in Texas is subject to a congressionally
mandated blood quantum limitation on its membership. No other Pueblo is
subject to such a blood quantum limitation. Except for one early
termination era enactment, Congress has subjected no other tribe in the
United States to such a blood quantum limitation for membership. In
fact Congress has declined to include such a blood quantum limitation
on those Indian tribes which Congress has recognized (five tribes) or
restored to trust relationship (two tribes) subsequent to the Pueblo's
Restoration Act. With the exception of Ysleta del Sur Pueblo, Congress
has not imposed a blood quantum limitation on any tribe in over half a
century.
Ysleta del Sur Pueblo is a tribe of Tigua Indians. To be Tigua is
to believe in the power of our drum, the heartbeat of our community; to
respect the authority of our Cacique; and to revere our traditions.
Unfortunately, the blood quantum limitation has had the effect of
preventing Tiguas from being members. At present, sixty-six percent of
tribal members lack a \1/4\ blood quantum. Absent the other parent
having sufficient Tigua blood quantum, the children of sixty-six
percent of tribal members cannot be members of the Pueblo despite being
Tigua. This includes my three daughters.
Our young men and women are vibrant Pueblo people who are part of
our community. Many aspire to serve our Pueblo, but do not meet the
blood quantum limitation to be a member. They participate in our
cultural events, they study our history, they engage in community
service, they learn and speak the Tiwa language, and they understand
the importance of carrying the traditions of our Pueblo forward. These
``descendants'' are a part of our community and our people recognize
them as legitimate members. They are Tigua. They are our future, our
hope, but they will not be able to serve as Tribal Councilmen and
Councilwomen or in other tribal offices. They will not be eligible for
federally funded services from the Pueblo.
They live on our reservation and interact with our members who are
their mothers, fathers, grandfathers, grandmothers, cousins, uncles,
aunts, and neighbors and influence the entire community for good or for
bad. They must be treated like citizens of our Pueblo, but if not
included as members they will not be subject to the jurisdiction of the
Pueblo. The inability to exert jurisdiction over people who are the
children of many of our members has a negative social impact on our
Pueblo.
Passage of H.R. 1560 frees the Pueblo to make all Tigua members
rather than accepting only those who meet the requisite blood quantum
but who may otherwise be anything but ``Tigua.'' Passage of H.R. 1560
assures the future of the Pueblo and the continued security of its
people and neighbors without cost to the Federal Government.
The legislative history of the Pueblo's Restoration Act records the
Department of the Interior's belief that the Congress should place some
limit on the potential service population of tribes being made eligible
for federal benefits, the first time that the Department expressed this
concern--a concern, as previously noted, that has been applied only to
this Pueblo. Congress has never seen fit to do so since the Pueblo's
Restoration Act, perhaps due to the sentiments expressed in a House
Committee Report accompanying the bill--
The Committee has strong reservations about the
constitutionality of a law which would determine eligibility
for such Federal services based on a racial criterium such as
the degree of Indian blood instead of a political criterium
such as the membership in an Indian tribe.
The language of H.R. 1560 is the same as that H.R. 5811 introduced
by Congressman Reyes in the last Congress. On a motion to suspend the
rules, the House agreed to and passed the bill by voice vote on
September 22, 2010. This committee reported the bill favorably by
unanimous voice vote on November 18, 2010. The bill was placed on the
Senate Legislative Calendar under General Orders where it languished,
possibly due to an erroneous CBO cost estimate.
Given the unique manner in which the Federal Government funds
Native American services, enactment of H.R. 1560 will have no federal
fiscal impact. In support of this statement I am providing the
committee with copies of the Congressional Budget Office Cost Estimate
(Exhibit B) that confirms:
``CBO estimates that implementing H.R. 1560 would have no
significant impact on the federal budget.''
The Cost Estimate also maintains that:
``H.R. 1560 contains no intergovernmental or private-sector
mandates as defined in the Unfunded Mandates Reform Act and
would impose no costs on state, local, or tribal governments.
Federal programs which fund tribal services, including those of the
Pueblo, are not entitlement programs. Agencies distribute appropriated
funds among Indian tribes in their service area according to set
percentages which are independent of any increase or decrease in a
tribe's population. The Pueblo's 1989 budget serves as base funding for
BIA allocations, and its 2002 budget serves as base funding for IHS
allocations--as is true of all other tribes in the same service areas.
Expeditious passage of H.R. 1560 frees the Pueblo to determine its
own future, is consistent with recent Congressional action, and has no
impact on the federal coffers. I respectfully request your support for
and passage of H.R. 1560.
Exhibit A--Prepared Statement of Janette Hernandez, Tribal Member,
Ysleta Del Sur Pueblo
Good afternoon Chairman and honorable members of the Senate
Committee on Indian Affairs. My name is Janette Hernandez and I am a
member of Ysleta Del Sur Pueblo. I am currently a student at the
University of Texas at El Paso and serve as an intern at the Ysleta del
Sur Pueblo's Social Services Department. I am also a mother of three
little girls and step-mother to eight children. It is my duty as a
Tigua woman to teach the next generation about the Tigua who have come
before us and teach them about our roles and responsibilities to carry
on our traditions and customs. It is also my duty to be there not only
for my children, but for every child of the Pueblo.
However, we are facing a crisis at Ysleta del Sur Pueblo. For over
300 years the Pueblo has struggled to preserve its culture and
community. We are proud of our ancestors who, captured by the Spanish
during the Pueblo Revolt of 1680 and forced away from their homelands,
established and defended what is now Ysleta del Sur Pueblo. As Tigua
women, my mother and grandmother taught the other women in my family
the importance of carrying on traditions and passing on the Tigua way
of life. For centuries the Pueblo has endured the loss of its lands,
the loss of use of other natural resources, and the loss of rights to
determine how the community will care and provide for our children and
future generations. It has been a 300 year struggle to survive as a
community established and looked after by our Tigua ancestors. For as
long as Tiguas have survived in Ysleta, tribal members have sought to
live a life free of poverty, discrimination, and uncertainty. This is
not yet a reality. Despite such obstacles we have taught our children
to hold on, persevere, and standup for our identity as an Indian
community. In the 1960s, when the Tigua were finally recognized as a
tribe, members had lost almost everything, but we had each other. No
one told us who could and could not be Tigua.
As Tigua parents, we want to create a safe, healthy and nurturing
environment for our children. However, as Tigua parents we face the
insecurity of knowing that our culture, spirituality, and community are
threatened. As a parent, it is overwhelming to know that your children
and their children could be deprived of their heritage and traditions.
As an Indian community we are forced to not only deal with the pressure
of raising our children during complex and dangerous times, but we also
must cope with cultural anxiety and uncertainty that is unknown to
other ethnic communities. That anxiety and insecurity is passed on to
our children. The will and tenacity to survive as a people may now be
defeated by a sentence in our Restoration Act, an Act meant to restore
and preserve a community but now operates to deny the next generations
of Tigua youth their place in the community. Our children are deprived
of federal services such as education and other service opportunities
in their own community.
My two youngest daughters are considered tribal members because my
husband is also a tribal member. However, my oldest daughter from my
first marriage to a non-Indian does not meet the 1987 Restoration Act
definition of a Tigua. She is considered a descendant because she is
below the minimum blood quantum. My husband's other children are tribal
members because my husband has a higher blood quantum than I do. So, my
oldest daughter is the only one in our family who is not recognized by
the government as a tribal member.
She is only eight years old but understands that because she is not
Indian ``enough,'' she does not qualify for federal programs or
services. She will not receive the trust protections and benefits she
would have as a tribal member. She will not be able to live as an equal
with her people. My child feels excluded from her own community. Yet,
she still carries the responsibility of guarding and working to protect
the Tigua way of life through her active participation in traditional
ceremonies. She is wise for her age and recognizes that she needs to
take care of what matters most, protecting and continuing the Tigua
culture so that the Tigua will not cease to exist. She participates in
all traditional events and everyone in our small community knows that
she is my daughter and comes from a long line of Tigua leaders, elders,
and ancestors. To the Pueblo, she is a Tigua. She is a tribal member.
I fear that the mixed messages my daughter receives will be
detrimental to her realizing her dreams as a Tigua adult. The burden of
an eight year old being acknowledged by her family and community as a
Tigua, but our government telling her she cannot be a member of our
tribe is unfair and detrimental to her health, welfare and security. It
is a ``label'' that is detrimental to all Tigua children in this
situation, the stigma that they don't really belong. Throughout our
community there are mothers and children who share my story.
The blood quantum requirement raises countless issues. It divides
us as a people and is just another way that we as Native Americans are
discriminated against, in general and this time among ourselves. There
is no other race where individuals are asked how pure their blood is.
So as a mother, a Tigua, and also a descendant of those Tiguas that
came before, I ask that you understand and acknowledge our sovereignty,
our legacy, and the devastation the blood quantum limitation is
inflicting on our community. But, most importantly I ask you to help to
preserve a culture and a community.
Exhibit B
September 9, 2011
Hon. Doc Hastings,
Chairman,
Committee on Natural Resources,
U.S. House of Representatives,
Washington, DC.
Dear Mr. Chairman:
The Congressional Budget Office has prepared the enclosed cost
estimate for H.R. 1560, a bill to amend the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo and
Alabama and Coushatta Indian Tribes of Texas Restoration Act to allow
the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Tribe to determine blood quantum requirement
for membership in that tribe.
If you wish further details on this estimate, we will be pleased to
provide them. The CBO staff contacts are Martin von Gnechten (for
programs of the Bureau of Indian Affairs) and Robert Stewart (for
programs of the Indian Health Service).
Sincerely,
Douglas W. Elmendorf.
Attachment
Congressional Budget Office Cost Estimate
H.R. 1560 would amend the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo and Alabama and
Coushatta Indian Tribes of Texas Restoration Act to eliminate the
requirement that individuals have a blood quantum level of at least
one-eighth to qualify for tribal membership. This legislation would
allow the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo tribe to establish its own blood
quantum requirement for determining membership.
Based on information from the Department of the Interior, the
Indian Health Service, and members of the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo tribe,
CBO estimates that implementing H.R. 1560 would have no significant
impact on the federal budget. Federal agencies currently provide
services to all of the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo Indians who would become
tribal members under H.R. 1560 because those agencies do not restrict
services based on tribal membership established under the Ysleta del
Sur Pueblo and Alabama and Coushatta Indian Tribes of Texas Restoration
Act. Enacting the legislation would not affect direct spending or
revenues; therefore, pay-as-you-go procedures do not apply.
H.R. 1560 contains no intergovernmental or private-sector mandates
as defined in the Unfunded Mandates Reform Act and would impose no
costs on state, local, or tribal governments. Enacting this legislation
would benefit the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo tribe.
The CBO staff contacts for this estimate are Martin von Gnechten
(for Bureau of Indian Affairs programs) and Robert Stewart (for Indian
Health Service programs). This estimate was approved by Peter H.
Fontaine, Assistant Director for Budget Analysis.
Senator Akaka. Thank you very much, Lieutenant Governor,
for your testimony.
Mr. Hansen, how will transferring of this property in this
bill allow the Association more security and flexibility at
your facility and improve services of Tribal members?
Mr. Hansen. As I mentioned, there are a couple of
inadequacies. One of the things that we are facing now, we
moved into the new Maniilaq Health Center in 1995, so 17 years
later a lot of the equipment is nearing the end of its useful
life. We are having to do some major equipment replacements.
Also, the facility is needing to be renovated and some changes
made to the facility.
We would like to be able to finance some of those equipment
purchases, which is standard in the industry. But with the
reversionary clauses that exist, it frankly raises eyebrows
from the financial institutions in terms of allowing us to use
that asset to borrow money against.
Additionally, we are working on and looking at some tax
credit programs to expand some of our facilities and again,
having more security for that property through a warranty deed,
that would allow us to do that.
Senator Akaka. Lieutenant Governor Hisa, can you describe
what impact the passage of H.R. 1560 would have on the Tribal
membership of the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo?
Mr. Hisa. It would be a positive impact for our community.
We have a large number of descendants and it continues to grow.
And we do provide services for our community, both federally
funded and services that are funded by the Tribal Council from
revenues that we generate from our business or whatever.
But we cannot extend those services, like we do to the
Tribal members have full services, so the impact would be just
tremendous in helping everybody in parity with the same
services that are available.
Senator Akaka. Ms. Hernandez, we have a photo here of your
daughter who is now eight.
Ms. Hernandez. Yes.
Senator Akaka. And in your testimony you note that this
beautiful young girl is not able to be enrolled as a member in
the Pueblo because of the restrictions in the settlement
agreement. This has led her to believe she is not Indian
enough.
Ms. Hernandez. Correct.
Senator Akaka. Can you describe the impact that has had on
your daughter? But, before you do that, if you have any
comments you would like to make before you answer the question,
we certainly would want to hear you.
Ms. Hernandez. First of all, good afternoon Chairman and
Honorable Members of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs. I
really appreciate the opportunity to tell the story of my
daughter and of our family and of our Pueblo and how this
Restoration Act blood quantum limitations has had an effect,
especially on my daughter. The rest of our family are
considered Tribal members and my daughter is the only one who
is excluded. She does not meet the minimum blood quantum of
one-eighth. So she is not a registered member of the Tribe. But
she is a member of our Tribe. She participates in every way.
She is always there but she is not sure of who she is because
she gets two messages. She knows she is a Tribal member because
our community lets her know that she is a part of us and yet
she cannot receive the same benefits as a Tribal member.
And that is where, my daughter has come home crying because
she does not understand. She knows it is not fair. Other kids
make fun of her because they say she should not be with us and
the community because she is not a Tribal member, she is a
descendant. And they make that distinction.
Senator Akaka. As you tell me she feels that way, what
determines that she is not a Tribal member?
Ms. Hernandez. My blood quantum is three-sixteenths. So
when I was in my first marriage, her father is not a Tribal
member. So, she is three-thirty-seconds, which is less than
one-eighth.
Senator Akaka. Oh, I see.
Ms. Hernandez. My two younger daughters, my current husband
is a Tribal member, so my two younger daughters are considered
one-fourth. So, they meet the minimum blood quantum. And my
husband's children are also considered Tribal members. So, she
is the only one from our family who is not a Tribal member
because she does not meet the minimum one-eighth.
Senator Akaka. Well, now coming back to the question, can
you describe and you did, can you further describe the impact
that this has made on your daughter.
Ms. Hernandez. Other instances that my daughter has
questioned her identity is, we have a library in our Tribe and
on our reservation, and when she goes in she must sign in. And
there are two different sign-in sheets. There is one for
descendants and there is one for Tribal members. This is for
funding purposes. Carlos can elaborate on that. But, there is
that separation and she feels that separation and where she is
distinguished that she is not a Tribal member and she is a
descendant and she carries that with her. But she also carries
the responsibility of being a Tribal member and participating
and carrying on our traditions and our ways of life.
Senator Akaka. Thank you. I would like to call now on
Senator Tom Udall for his questions.
Senator Udall. Chairman Akaka, thank you very much. And she
really, Janette, she really looks like a lovely young lady and
I am sure that you are very proud of her.
First of all, let me just welcome the Governor, other
Tribal officials and Lieutenant Governor on our panel today. It
is good to have you here.
I thought, I would ask about, to start with Janette and ask
about this division this has caused within the family and
within the Tribe. You know, we do not, in the United States, if
you are an American nobody says you are this percentage
American, that percentage of American. I imagine that that is,
the best word is divisive. It sets up so that she signs in and
she has to sign in differently. Could you describe the impact
on her and the impact that you know of of any Tribal member?
And I will also ask the Lieutenant Governor to comment on this
after you finish.
Ms. Hernandez. Our descendants feel very divided and
separated from Tribal members because they are not considered
Tribal members through the Federal regulations, the minimum of
one-eighth. And my daughter, constantly knows that she is a
Tribal member, that she carries that. She is my daughter. And
she sees her sisters and her sisters who also participate. But
yet her sisters can go in and sign in on a different sheet but
she has to sign in on the other one.
And that is detrimental to her. To her identity; she does
not know who she is. She is only eight years old and that is a
burden that an eight year old should not have. It does not
matter her ethnicity. She is a Tribal member and she knows that
in her heart, but she does not know that in her brain, in her
head. She is only eight years old.
Senator Udall. Yes, very damaging, I am sure. Lieutenant
Governor, if you would like to comment on that question?
Ms. Hisa. I sure will. Let me just elaborate on why there
is a different sign in sheet. Again, because of Federal
funding, we have reporting requirements and when our Tribal
members visit our education center, whether it is to use a
computer lab, for tutoring, they need to sign in on one sheet
because that is the funding that we need to report on.
We also ask descendants to sign in because, again, we want
to keep track of our descendants. And, at the same time, when
it comes to funding a program, Tribal Council goes through a
budgeting process and we want to see the number of descendants
taking advantage of these services so we can fund accordingly.
So, that is the purpose. It is not with bad intent but it is
something that is in place not only in our education center but
in our wellness center and everywhere else because that is how
we need to govern ourselves and operate to be able to keep
count of what is going on.
As Janette mentioned, there is a sense of separation
between the youth. I also have three daughters and they are
considered descendants and they are also asked to sign in on
different sheets. But when it comes to our ceremonies or our
way of life, nobody there questions their ethnicity, their
blood, where they come from. And her daughter is always there.
We accept her as part of the family, part of the community, as
well as my daughters. But when they have to go to receive
services, they do feel a little hesitant, in going, because of
that sense of being less Indian than their relatives.
So it is detrimental to the youth. My children are much
older. Well, I have an eight year old as well. But I also have
an 18 year old and a 14 year old, and they struggled through
this to where, in our summer program, they decided not to
participate because of that. They would not participate and
they limited themselves in that way.
And we do not want her daughter to go through that same
thing and not be part of the community like the way we want
them to be, the way we accept them. It is something that is not
coming from us. It is just a label that has been put upon our
youth by the Federal Government and nothing else. So, we are
asking for that to be changed.
Senator Udall. Lieutenant Governor, basically what you are
saying is that this is very isolating to this young individual
or others in the community.
Mr. Hisa. Yes.
Senator Udall. Now, are there, there is obviously her
daughter and others in the community who do not meet the one-
eighth blood quantum requirement. Do you have an estimate of
how many?
Mr. Hisa. It is approximately over 500.
Senator Udall. Okay.
Mr. Hisa. We are still getting, since the bill started
moving, we have asked parents to bring their children, the
information, so we can start, just about a year ago we started
issuing out descendant cards so we can start just getting a
true number. So it has over 500 members right now.
Senator Udall. And how does the Pueblo handle providing
services for members of your Tribe who do not officially, are
not officially enrolled because of the one-eighth blood quantum
requirement? How do you handle that?
Mr. Hisa. We, through revenues that the Pueblo generates
through its operations and businesses, find a way to go ahead
and try to provide the same level of service to descendants. It
is just a funding issue that really separates it.
So, we are not asking the Federal Government for additional
money. We have managed to operate our programs successfully.
So, we are just asking for this identity of non-Tribal
descendants to be taken away and eliminated.
Senator Udall. Can you describe for the Committee what H.R.
1560 would mean for the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo's capacity for
self-governance and self-determination?
Mr. Hisa. Yes. We are a sovereign nation. We consider
ourselves a sovereign nation. We do have government
relationships with the State of Texas, the City of El Paso, the
County of El Paso, the Federal Government as well. So, this is
just something in addition to what we believe in. We need to be
able to govern our people, provide a safe environment and
welfare for our community, no matter if they are descendants,
one-eighth, full-blooded, we all look at our Tribal membership
as being equal and we want to be able to treat everybody the
same.
Senator Udall. Now, would you expect that H.R. 1560 would
result in any major additional costs? I know the issue you
raised in your testimony. In my understanding, the
Congressional Budget Office, as far as the cost to the agency,
has issued a zero finding now.
Mr. Hisa. It will not be an additional cost to the Federal
Government and if it is an increase in cost to the Pueblo it is
going to be a minimal one because we do provide for our
descendants as well. So once I have a feeling that once this
passes and that limitation is taken away, we will have more
people come and register their children freely. It might be an
increase in the cost but it is not going to be much because,
like I said, we do provide services to our descendants as we
speak.
Senator Udall. Thank you. And I thank the whole panel today
for your testimony and I would yield back to the Chairman.
Thank you.
Senator Akaka. Thank you very much, Senator Udall. We, the
Committee, will certainly consider these bills. But I want to
again thank you so much for your being here and your responses.
It will help us in dealing with these bills.
I know the Tribal witnesses traveled far to be with us
today. Your testimony makes it clear how important those pieces
of legislation are for your Tribes and your members.
I look forward to working with my colleagues on the
Committee to move these bills through the Committee and to this
Senate and so we will be, as a Committee, working on this now
that we have had the hearing and we have heard from you.
So, mahalo, thank you very much for your participation in
this hearing.
This hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:21 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]