[House Hearing, 111 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
H.R. 2336, THE GREEN ACT OF 2009, PART II
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
HOUSING AND COMMUNITY OPPORTUNITY
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JUNE 16, 2009
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Financial Services
Serial No. 111-45
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52-401 WASHINGTON : 2009
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HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES
BARNEY FRANK, Massachusetts, Chairman
PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania SPENCER BACHUS, Alabama
MAXINE WATERS, California MICHAEL N. CASTLE, Delaware
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York PETER T. KING, New York
LUIS V. GUTIERREZ, Illinois EDWARD R. ROYCE, California
NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York FRANK D. LUCAS, Oklahoma
MELVIN L. WATT, North Carolina RON PAUL, Texas
GARY L. ACKERMAN, New York DONALD A. MANZULLO, Illinois
BRAD SHERMAN, California WALTER B. JONES, Jr., North
GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York Carolina
DENNIS MOORE, Kansas JUDY BIGGERT, Illinois
MICHAEL E. CAPUANO, Massachusetts GARY G. MILLER, California
RUBEN HINOJOSA, Texas SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri Virginia
CAROLYN McCARTHY, New York JEB HENSARLING, Texas
JOE BACA, California SCOTT GARRETT, New Jersey
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts J. GRESHAM BARRETT, South Carolina
BRAD MILLER, North Carolina JIM GERLACH, Pennsylvania
DAVID SCOTT, Georgia RANDY NEUGEBAUER, Texas
AL GREEN, Texas TOM PRICE, Georgia
EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri PATRICK T. McHENRY, North Carolina
MELISSA L. BEAN, Illinois JOHN CAMPBELL, California
GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin ADAM PUTNAM, Florida
PAUL W. HODES, New Hampshire MICHELE BACHMANN, Minnesota
KEITH ELLISON, Minnesota KENNY MARCHANT, Texas
RON KLEIN, Florida THADDEUS G. McCOTTER, Michigan
CHARLES A. WILSON, Ohio KEVIN McCARTHY, California
ED PERLMUTTER, Colorado BILL POSEY, Florida
JOE DONNELLY, Indiana LYNN JENKINS, Kansas
BILL FOSTER, Illinois CHRISTOPHER LEE, New York
ANDRE CARSON, Indiana ERIK PAULSEN, Minnesota
JACKIE SPEIER, California LEONARD LANCE, New Jersey
TRAVIS CHILDERS, Mississippi
WALT MINNICK, Idaho
JOHN ADLER, New Jersey
MARY JO KILROY, Ohio
STEVE DRIEHAUS, Ohio
SUZANNE KOSMAS, Florida
ALAN GRAYSON, Florida
JIM HIMES, Connecticut
GARY PETERS, Michigan
DAN MAFFEI, New York
Jeanne M. Roslanowick, Staff Director and Chief Counsel
Subcommittee on Housing and Community Opportunity
MAXINE WATERS, California, Chairwoman
NYDIA M. VELAZQUEZ, New York SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts Virginia
EMANUEL CLEAVER, Missouri THADDEUS G. McCOTTER, Michigan
AL GREEN, Texas JUDY BIGGERT, Illinois
WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri GARY G. MILLER, California
KEITH ELLISON, Minnesota RANDY NEUGEBAUER, Texas
JOE DONNELLY, Indiana WALTER B. JONES, Jr., North
MICHAEL E. CAPUANO, Massachusetts Carolina
PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania ADAM PUTNAM, Florida
LUIS V. GUTIERREZ, Illinois KENNY MARCHANT, Texas
STEVE DRIEHAUS, Ohio LYNN JENKINS, Kansas
MARY JO KILROY, Ohio CHRISTOPHER LEE, New York
JIM HIMES, Connecticut
DAN MAFFEI, New York
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on:
June 16, 2009................................................ 1
Appendix:
June 16, 2009................................................ 11
WITNESSES
Tuesday, June 16, 2009
Sims, Hon. Ron, Deputy Secretary, U.S. Department of Housing and
Urban Development.............................................. 3
APPENDIX
Prepared statements:
Sims, Hon. Ron............................................... 12
H.R. 2336, THE GREEN ACT OF 2009, PART II
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Tuesday, June 16, 2009
U.S. House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Housing and
Community Opportunity,
Committee on Financial Services,
Washington, D.C.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:47 p.m., in
room 2128, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Maxine Waters
[chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding.
Members present: Representatives Waters, Cleaver, Green,
Himes; Capito, and Jenkins.
Also present: Representative Perlmutter.
Chairwoman Waters. This hearing of the Subcommittee on
Housing and Community Opportunity will come to order.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentleman. I would like to thank
your ranking member, Mrs. Capito, and the other members of the
Subcommittee on Housing and Community Opportunity for joining
me for a second hearing on H.R. 2336, the GREEN Act of 2009.
Without objection, Representative Perlmutter, the author of
this legislation, will be considered a member of the
subcommittee for the duration of this hearing.
Before we begin, I would like to note that H.R. 2454, the
American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009, is not the
subject of today's hearing. While I understand member interest
in this legislation, today's hearing is focusing solely on the
GREEN Act.
Our first hearing on this legislation was last Thursday,
June 11th. At that hearing we heard from real estate experts,
homebuilders, architects, green building experts, and
affordable housing developers about the importance of green
affordable housing, especially for low-income families. Today
we are joined by the Honorable Ron Sims, Deputy Secretary of
the Department of Housing and Urban Development, who will share
HUD's perspectives about this legislation.
As the largest operator of affordable housing in the
Nation, HUD--and the low-income families it serves--is severely
impacted by high energy costs. The Department spends an
estimated $5 billion annually on energy, more than 10 percent
of its annual budget, through utility allowances and connection
with rental assistance payments and indirect operating
subsidies to public housing authorities. By implementing energy
savings of 5 percent a year over 5 years, HUD could realize $1
billion in savings. The requirements of the GREEN Act could
contribute to these savings.
These savings would also benefit the 5 million families who
reside in public or assisted housing. As we learned at last
week's hearing, low-income families are more likely to be
adversely impacted by high energy costs. These families are
more likely to occupy older and less energy-efficient
buildings. According to one study, they spend approximately 16
percent of their annual income on energy, which is 4.4 times
more than higher-income families spend.
As a result, some families must make the difficult choice
of heating their homes or seeking other necessities such as
medical care, food, or transportation. No family should have to
make these kinds of choices. Affordable energy should be
available for everyone.
I am very interested to hear the Department's perspective
on how the green building provisions in the GREEN Act will
assist in development of energy-efficient housing, protecting
the environment, and providing affordable clean energy to low-
income families.
I would now like to recognize our subcommittee's ranking
member to make an opening statement. Mrs. Capito?
Mrs. Capito. Thank you. I would like to thank the
chairwoman for her dedication to housing and green housing. I
would like to thank the bill's sponsor, Mr. Perlmutter, because
he has worked this issue very aggressively, and I think made a
lot of changes in response to questions that many members might
have had.
I don't have a formal opening statement. I am interested to
hear our witness in terms of past programs that HUD has been
involved in to encourage energy efficiency, what kind of
success those programs have had, and how they can be reshaped.
If this bill were to become law, would it interfere, enhance,
or otherwise--are there any potential conflicts inherent in the
incentives built in for green building here as opposed to what
is already existing in HUD?
I think the goals are laudable and I believe that energy
efficiency will result in cost savings all across-the-board
individually and as a whole. So I thank the witness for coming
and I, again, want to thank the chairwoman for her kindness.
Thank you.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. I will now
recognize Mr. Himes for 5 minutes.
Mr. Himes. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank you very
much, Mr. Sims, for being here today.
I am very, very excited about this topic and about the
legislation that was authored by my colleague, Ed Perlmutter of
Colorado. I spent 5 or 6 years working with Enterprise
Community Partners on trying to instill green building
standards into the construction of affordable housing.
It is a triple win. It saves people money on their utility
bills, and we are talking about people for whom, of course,
utility bills are a substantial portion of their monthly cash
flow. It solves health problems in communities where health
problems are often concentrated, and of course it contributes
to the exercise that we are all engaged in here, in fact
globally engaged in, trying to reduce the amount of pollution
that we put into the air and reverse the tide of global
warming. So I am enormously excited about the content of this
bill.
Thank you for being with us. I hope that we can work
together in the coming months to really see this bill passed
through Congress, signed by the President, and adopted
enthusiastically by HUD so that we collectively, and of course
the people that HUD serves, can take advantage of the many,
many benefits that come from building smarter and building
greener. I am delighted you are here and I am looking forward
to your testimony.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you. Ms. Jenkins? No?
Mr. Cleaver?
Mr. Cleaver. Madam Chairwoman, I don't have any questions.
We have had, I think, some very beneficial hearings, and I
wanted to thank Mr. Perlmutter for his vision. I strongly
support his efforts. I think this kind of legislation is long
overdue, and I yield back the balance of my time.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much.
Mr. Perlmutter, without objection, you will be considered a
member of the subcommittee for the duration of the hearing. I
understand you don't have a statement at this point. Yes?
Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank you
to the committee for letting me participate.
Just a quick statement. This bill is the development of a
task force which was comprised of Republicans and Democrats. We
worked with a lot of organizations, and I just wanted to thank
HUD for from time to time providing some input and guidance on
this bill, and they have worked with us to develop this and to
move towards energy efficiency which, again, is kind of a
triple win. It is good for national security, it is good for
the climate, and it is good for jobs, so I look forward to your
testimony today, sir.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. We have been joined
by Mr. Green. I will recognize Mr. Green for an opening
statement.
Mr. Green. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. As has been
indicated, I too am looking forward to the testimony, and I
yield back the balance of my time. Thank you.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. There are no more
opening statements.
We will now go to our witness, our only witness today who
is with us, the Honorable Ron Sims, Deputy Secretary of the
United States Department of Housing and Urban Development.
Welcome, sir. You may begin.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE RON SIMS, DEPUTY SECRETARY, U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT
Chairwoman Waters. Is your microphone on?
Mr. Sims. I was told I would have--I have only been here
for 4 weeks. I am still getting used to these microphones. I
apologize.
Good afternoon, Chairwoman Waters, Ranking Member Capito,
Congressman Perlmutter, and distinguished members of the
subcommittee. It is my pleasure to be here. I want to commend
you, Congresswoman Waters, for your leadership on this issue,
as well as Congressman Perlmutter for his commitment to energy
efficient affordable housing and for his hard work on this
bill.
The GREEN Act represents an important effort to address the
high cost of heating, lighting, and cooling housing in the
United States, especially affordable housing. I understand that
this bill passed the House last year and that HUD staff have
been helpful in providing you with technical guidance. I want
to pledge to you our continued cooperation and assistance as we
go forward.
Before coming to HUD, I was the King County executive, an
elected position in one of the largest counties in the United
States, where we developed one of the most cutting-edge green
building and smart growth programs in the country. Secretary
Donovan has a clear vision on these issues. He is creating a
new Office of Sustainable Housing and Communities at HUD, and
has asked me to oversee, as one of my functions, that office.
In that capacity, I will be responsible for synchronizing our
efforts with those across government, and for implementing
HUD's green building and energy efficiency initiatives, as we
bring some of the best ideas to build strong, sustainable
communities that are being developed at the local level to the
national stage.
So I have a strong interest in the outcome of this
legislation. I have submitted a longer statement for the
record, but I would like to focus my remarks on one of the
questions that you asked me to address. What is the effect of
green development on low- and moderate-income households and
communities? It is an important question because some are
concerned that the so-called green premium--that is the added
cost of building green can hurt rather than help low-income
families.
Put simply, I do not subscribe to that view at all. I
believe that we can't afford not to build green. I am committed
to making HUD a leader in green development, precisely because
of the benefits it will provide to people across the economic
spectrum, and low-income families in particular.
First and foremost, we need to dispel the notion that green
building will mean higher energy costs for low-income families.
While everyone is hurt by high energy costs, no one is hurt
more than--no one is more vulnerable to rising energy prices
than low- and moderate-income families, often cutting back on
their other needs such as medicine, food, and education when
costs go up. Large-scale green initiatives such as the
Enterprise Green Communities program show that properties
achieving 20 to 30 percent greater efficiency yield cost
savings that accrue directly to low-income residents, or are
reinvested back into property in which they live.
HUD's own budget is compromised by skyrocketing energy
costs. HUD spends $5 billion on energy for our public housing
and Section 8 operations. A modest savings of just 5 percent
could generate a savings of more than $1 billion for the
taxpayers over the next 5 years.
I am pleased to report that under Secretary Donovan's
leadership, HUD has made an historic commitment to energy
efficiency that began with the economic recovery package. We
have established partnerships with the Department of Energy,
the EPA, and the Department of Transportation. And we have
several exciting Fiscal Year 2010 budget proposals, including a
$100 million Energy Innovation Fund that will seed local energy
retrofit funds and re-engineer FHA's Energy Efficient
Mortgages. This will help families invest in energy efficiency
when they buy a home or refinance their home mortgages.
Sustainable green building has a clear connection to better
health as well. In King County, we did a study called
HealthScape, which looked specifically at how the built
environment and transportation systems impact public health and
climate change. What we found was that while people living in
the most walkable communities of the county were less likely to
be overweight and were more likely to be physically active,
wide health disparities existed between low-income families and
persons of color and the rest of the population. Right now, we
can predict morbidity rates and life expectancy by zip codes. A
zip code! Place matters.
But as we saw in the High Point public housing project
development in King County, a commitment to building green can
be a big part of rejecting the certainty of illness for
millions of children. In addition to walkability, by adding
green features specifically designed to reduce asthma triggers,
the number of asthma-free days increased, and mold, which often
causes dangerous infections--I'm an asthmatic--was completely
eliminated.
[The prepared statement of Deputy Secretary Sims can be
found on page 12 of the appendix.]
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much, Mr. Sims. That is
one of the things you will learn about the committee. We do
gavel at about 5 minutes.
Mr. Sims. I do appreciate that.
Chairwoman Waters. We do have a little bit of flexibility.
Welcome.
Mr. Sims. Thank you.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you for coming today. At this
point, we get to ask you questions.
Mr. Sims. Please.
Chairwoman Waters. I will recognize myself for the first 5
minutes of questions. Basically, mine is a general one.
We hear a lot about saving energy costs by going green, and
we hear a lot of talk about the jobs that will be created.
Coming from King County, did you, with the work that you were
doing, experience job creation, and were there a lot of jobs
that came about as a result of going green?
Mr. Sims. We worked with South Seattle Community College to
specifically design programs for people who would not otherwise
be employed to enter the green industry. And in the projects
that we built green, we used that workforce. We wanted to
develop a new one with the skills to handle new green
technologies, whether those were smart grid technologies,
whether those were wind technologies. So the answer is yes, we
believe that in fact building green creates new employment
opportunities, new industries, new technologies, and is a job
creator.
Chairwoman Waters. As you know, HUD has the responsibility
for all of the public housing in the United States, and I do
believe that we can create a lot of savings, even before we
redevelop and retrofit, but there does not appear to be any
effort to educate residents of public housing about how they
can conserve energy, and I have not seen any program of
incentives to do so. I believe that if we put on an education
program to show the residents how they can save energy and
provide a few incentives to do so, that we could save a lot of
money.
As a matter of fact, I think we could reduce our energy
costs significantly while at the same time, maybe giving a few
dollars off the rent as an incentive for turning off the lights
and being more energy efficient. Do you think this is the kind
of program that could help us in our efforts to go green and to
create savings?
Mr. Sims. I believe it is important to have an educated
group of individuals who are your tenants know how to use
energy efficiently within their home. But there still is an
obligation to provide capital investments that would be present
to also complement their own efforts at reducing their energy
costs. I think you need to do both.
We have created an Office of Sustainability and have been
working with public housing authorities; our issue with them is
how do we do the retrofits. We are doing those very
aggressively through the stimulus funds. And we are applying
the energy efficiency retrofits in a variety of different ways
in order to find out what is the best methodology to achieve
energy efficiency, both through education and capital
investment. But we are doing that with the stimulus funds now.
Chairwoman Waters. Well, thank you very much. Again,
welcome. Your work is cut out for you, and perhaps you will be
over here with us many more times.
Mr. Sims. Madam Chairwoman, I look forward to that. Thank
you.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. Mrs. Capito?
Mrs. Capito. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Sims.
I had a couple of questions, they are kind of specific, but
let me just ask you, you have been at HUD for what, a month? Is
that correct?
Mr. Sims. Four weeks.
Mrs. Capito. Four weeks. So I will forego a lot of the
specificity, if that is all right with you.
In section five of the bill is a demonstration project for
multi-family housing projects for Section 8, and it calls for
50,000 units over 4 years. It seems like, in my view--and there
are some qualifiers in here--from your knowledge of Section 8
and the available funds and the availability of units, is this
a reachable goal? Is this something that you think under that
very large program is something that is achievable, or do you
have an opinion on that?
Mr. Sims. The Department is committed to using Section 8 in
a way to create energy efficient homes. I think obviously we
are concerned about the cost--there are other issues related to
Section 8. But we are committed to trying to green our
inventory and that of people who are our partners as well. We
would like to work with the committee on that particular issue.
Mrs. Capito. I would speculate, then, some--and there is
some flexibility, I believe, built into this section if it is
not achievable in 4 years. I would recommend that, because that
is a pretty steep mountain.
The other question I have, and I don't know if you have
read this specifically, but there is a section six that goes
for additional credit for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac housing
goals for energy efficient mortgages. Under the current
environment with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac basically being
taken over by the government and having difficulties, very
large difficulties, do you see any problems with putting
another mission, I would say, rather than mandate--it wouldn't
be a mandate--mission to Fannie and Freddie where they would
receive 100 percent, 25 percent credit? Do you have any opinion
on that section of the bill?
Mr. Sims. Within our own budget we are--2010 budget, we are
creating a revenue regarding what we can do in FHA in terms of
energy efficient mortgages and location-specific mortgages.
When you look at the GSEs and their ability to provide
incentives, our issue is what is--will the market respond and
how will it respond?
We believe that--we have taken what we call a cautious, but
we believe a prudent, step at putting money in the 2010 budget
to begin to explore how to make that market, what makes it
attractive. And so we are doing that in our 2010 budget and we
believe that would be a good demonstration for a larger effort,
but we want to at least know how to do it first, and will the
market respond.
Mrs. Capito. My final question is, I am from a rural part
of the country, and many of the standards that are--whether it
is LEED or some other standards, green building standards--the
urban areas, I would say, are traditionally leading, more on
the--well, there are more people, there are more educational
facilities, people are experimenting more with energy
efficiency.
My concern is--and I voiced this, and Mr. Perlmutter and I
talked about this--that if we are setting a goal in a State
like West Virginia to achieve energy efficiency and to try to
get some of the financial benefits that would be associated
with that in terms of more favorable mortgages or anything of
that nature, I'm concerned are we going to have enough
inspectors who are trained in this to really make an
evaluation? Are they going to be able to travel to the rural
areas to be able to ascertain--
I don't want to see a situation--we want to incent
everybody to move in this direction, and I think if you can't
find somebody to really do a true, good evaluation of your home
structure or your business structure because of the lack of
availability of somebody there to actually make that
determination--I would like to work with the sponsor and with
HUD for the education portion of this, because I think it is
going to be really important that it reaches all areas in the
country.
Mr. Sims. I look forward to having that meeting with you.
We would love to work with you on that.
Mrs. Capito. Thank you.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much.
Mr. Cleaver?
Mr. Cleaver. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
Mr. Secretary, welcome. We are glad to have you here.
One of the things I hope we can do with this legislation--
and this may also actually need to be discussed with Mr.
Perlmutter--is that this would be living legislation in the
sense that as new technologies become available, I would hope
that we would have the flexibility in this legislation to make
adjustments. I mean, even just since Mr. Perlmutter's
introduction of this bill, we have discovered, for example,
that white rooftops on buildings reduce energy costs
substantially, and when we think about public housing--having
lived in public housing--is something that is probably not
going to be a major cost, but it could be a major savings.
The other question is my interpretation of this legislation
that I want to make sure is correct, and that is that the green
collar jobs that will be needed to do the work will also be
available through training in this legislation. Am I on board?
Residents and--
Mr. Sims. Yes, that is correct.
Mr. Cleaver. I have no other questions. Thank you. I yield
back the balance of my time.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much.
Mr. Green?
Mr. Green. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I thank the
witness for his testimony.
The bill, as I see it, is one that I am going to gladly
support. Mr. Perlmutter has done an outstanding job in working
this, and I am especially pleased that he has chosen to add my
name to it. It makes it a lot easier to support.
[laughter]
Mr. Green. When I am home and I'm talking about the GREEN
Act, I will be sure to mention you at some point.
But on the serious side, I want to ask you about the
revolving fund. I think this is a capital idea, and I think
that it is something that would be of great benefit to the
States. Is this something that you agree with me on?
Mr. Sims. I think we want to make sure that if we establish
a revolving fund that there is a method of ensuring its
continued refreshing as a condition of investment in the
future.
Mr. Green. Well, absolutely. We want to continue it, and I
will assure Mr. Perlmutter that I'm going to do what I can to
help him with that. I think that is a key part of the
legislation.
Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. I yield back the balance of my
time. Thank you, sir.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. I will call on the
author of the bill and grant him as much time as he sees fit.
This will be the first and the last time that he will ever have
that much time. Mr. Perlmutter, thank you.
Mr. Perlmutter. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I really
will be brief. I appreciate the gentleman for his testimony,
and thank you.
I would first ask two questions that you and the ranking
member asked, Madam Chairwoman. In section 18 of the bill--
there are a lot of sections to this bill--there is the training
and education--that is one of the training and education
sections for both training as to construct and install energy
efficient measures, but also how to conserve, which would be
from the tenant's spot. Also there is a piece in there about
energy audits as well, which I know is Mrs. Capito's concern,
is there somebody who really can appraise and understand how to
retrofit the house, and what it is worth, and those things.
So we tried to address that, but I am certainly happy to
take all comments and make changes that are necessary. There
are also several rural housing pieces and desire to make sure
that whether they are Native American housing issues or rural
housing issues, wherever they might be in the country, that we
try to address that as well. I think, Mr. Secretary, you would
agree.
And then the last thing is there is a lot of discretion
given to the Secretary in this bill to update and to try to
stay up with the technology and the changes in codes and things
like that throughout the country so that HUD really is at the
forefront of energy efficiency, both--it assists the tenants,
clearly, and it assists the bottom line of the United States of
America so that we can try to minimize our energy costs.
I would ask you one question, Mr. Secretary. There is an
interesting section that is a new section from what we proposed
last year, and that has to do with leasing of units, the
concept being that in building a new home, the homebuilder or
homeowner grants an easement on the roof to the solar company,
and then the solar company for a certain period of time leases
the solar energy unit to the homeowner who rents it for $40 a
month, but he has $80 a month in savings. So it is a good
approach, no upfront costs. The solar company maintains
ownership and operations and maintenance of the unit.
But where the Federal Government comes in is that at the
back end of the lease, the last 10 years of a 20-year lease,
there is some insurance provided by the United States to assist
the whole leasing mechanism. Are you familiar with this
section? I think it is section 27 of the bill. And I know it is
kind of a new area that we are asking HUD to move into, but
what are your thoughts about that?
Mr. Sims. I was briefed on it, and the issue of the
leasing, particularly whether it is--you are talking about
whether it is solar or other alternative--
Mr. Perlmutter. It could be any renewable source, right.
Mr. Sims. We are doing a pretty extensive study right now
on some units that we now have in place so that we can--we are
going to be able to quantify what we consider to be the
efficiencies by dollar that we would use to lay out what you
call the lease terms, so we are very intrigued by that
particular section of the bill.
Mr. Perlmutter. Madam Chairwoman, again, I would offer to
HUD and to all the members of this committee as we go forward,
this really is an attempt to have lots of input from everybody
to make it the best bill that we can get out of this place, and
to be good for low- to moderate-income earners across the
country, but also move us to an energy efficient and renewal
energy future.
So I would yield back, Madam Chairwoman, and I just thank
you for the opportunity to be part of your committee.
Chairwoman Waters. Thank you very much. This may be a
record time for having a hearing on any subject in this
committee.
I would note that some members may have additional
questions for this witness which they may wish to submit in
writing, so without objection, the hearing record will remain
open for 30 days for members to submit written questions to
this witness and to place his responses in the record.
This panel is now dismissed.
Do we have any submissions to make a part of the record? If
not, this subcommittee is adjourned, and we thank our witness
here today. I'm sure, again, we will see a lot more of you in
the future.
This subcommittee is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:18 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
June 16, 2009
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