[House Hearing, 109 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
POROUS BORDERS AND DOWNSTREAM COSTS: THE COST OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ON
STATE, COUNTY AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENT REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
AUGUST 14, 2006
__________
Serial No. 109-188
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Government Reform
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/
index.html
http://www.house.gov/reform
______
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COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM
TOM DAVIS, Virginia, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut HENRY A. WAXMAN, California
DAN BURTON, Indiana TOM LANTOS, California
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida MAJOR R. OWENS, New York
JOHN M. McHUGH, New York EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York
JOHN L. MICA, Florida PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania
GIL GUTKNECHT, Minnesota CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York
MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland
STEVEN C. LaTOURETTE, Ohio DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio
TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois
CHRIS CANNON, Utah WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri
JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee DIANE E. WATSON, California
CANDICE S. MILLER, Michigan STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland
DARRELL E. ISSA, California LINDA T. SANCHEZ, California
JON C. PORTER, Nevada C.A. DUTCH RUPPERSBERGER, Maryland
KENNY MARCHANT, Texas BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of
PATRICK T. McHENRY, North Carolina Columbia
CHARLES W. DENT, Pennsylvania ------
VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
JEAN SCHMIDT, Ohio (Independent)
BRIAN P. BILBRAY, California
David Marin, Staff Director
Lawrence Halloran, Deputy Staff Director
Teresa Austin, Chief Clerk
Phil Barnett, Minority Chief of Staff/Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on August 14, 2006.................................. 1
Statement of:
Becerra, Hon. Xavier, a Representative in Congress from the
State of California........................................ 5
Unzueta, Miguel, Special Agent in Charge of San Diego SAC,
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement; William B.
Kolender, sheriff, San Diego County; Bill Horn, chairman,
San Diego Board of Supervisors; Steven A. Escoboza,
president and CEO, Hospital Association of San Diego and
Imperial County; Denise Moreno Ducheny, State Senator, 40th
District, San Diego, CA; and Bronwen Anders, professor of
pediatrics, University of California at San Diego, former
president, San Diego Chapter, American Academy of
Pediatrics................................................. 12
Anders, Bronwen.......................................... 53
Ducheny, Denise Moreno................................... 46
Escoboza, Steven A....................................... 38
Horn, Bill............................................... 34
Kolender, William B...................................... 28
Unzueta, Miguel.......................................... 12
Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by:
Anders, Bronwen, professor of pediatrics, University of
California at San Diego, former president, San Diego
Chapter, American Academy of Pediatrics, prepared statement
of......................................................... 55
Davis, Chairman Tom, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Virginia, prepared statement of................... 3
Dreier, Hon. David, a Representative in Congress from the
State of California, prepared statement of................. 7
Ducheny, Denise Moreno, State Senator, 40th District, San
Diego, CA, prepared statement of........................... 50
Escoboza, Steven A., president and CEO, Hospital Association
of San Diego and Imperial County, prepared statement of.... 41
Horn, Bill, chairman, San Diego Board of Supervisors,
prepared statement of...................................... 36
Kolender, William B., sheriff, San Diego County, prepared
statement of............................................... 31
Unzueta, Miguel, Special Agent in Charge of San Diego SAC,
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, prepared
statement of............................................... 15
POROUS BORDERS AND DOWNSTREAM COSTS: THE COST OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ON
STATE, COUNTY AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS
----------
MONDAY, AUGUST 14, 2006
House of Representatives,
Committee on Government Reform,
San Diego, CA.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11 a.m., at the
San Diego county Administration Center, room 310 and 410, 1600
Pacific Highway, San Diego, CA, Hon. Tom Davis (chairman of the
committee) presiding.
Present: Representative Tom Davis.
Also present: Representative Becerra.
Staff present: Larry Halloran, deputy staff director;
Teresa Austin, chief clerk; Stephen Castor, counsel; Allyson
Blandford, office manager; and Michael McCarthy, minority
professional staff member.
Chairman Tom Davis. Good morning. The committee will come
to order. I want to welcome our guests to today's hearing.
Porous borders exact a high price. Ineffective immigration
enforcement undermines respect for law. It threatens national
security. The steady flow of illegal immigration also passes
unpredictable and largely unreimbursed costs on to States and
counties already struggling to maintain safe, healthy, and
prosperous communities. That de facto unfunded mandate is
draining local law enforcement, health care, and education
budgets.
Today we're convening in San Diego to learn more about the
intergovernmental impact of illegal immigration and to discuss
the urgent need for enhanced border security. We particularly
want to hear local assessments of efforts to strengthen
enforcement in what is called the internal border where
undocumented aliens apply for work, official documents, and
public benefits. As the people of this area know only too well,
no effort to harden or patrol the international boundary will
ever be 100 percent effective. And those who enter legally but
subsequently violate the terms of their visa should be detected
and detained by vigilant internal enforcement systems. So we
asked our witnesses this morning to give us the benefit of
their experience and their guidance regarding the costs of
illegal immigration and effective ways to limit those costs.
The current failure of enforcement is being felt throughout
the Nation as the tide of undocumented aliens swells well
beyond the six traditional settlement States of California, New
York, Texas, Florida, Illinois, and New Jersey. As of last
April, legislatures in 43 States considered bills on
immigration issues. Attempting to fill the vacuum left by
earnest but hopelessly understaffed Federal efforts, States
sought to control access to education and other public
benefits, strengthen employment verification, punish human
trafficking, strengthen eligibility requirements for
identifying documents and voting, and coordinating law
enforcement. County governments and mayors have similarly taken
steps to regain some control over their fiscal fate.
Obviously, when Washington fails to exercise sovereign
control over what is pouring into the national melting pot,
States, counties, and cities feel the heat. Although difficult
to quantify precisely, the impact of illegal immigration on
State, county, and city budgets is undeniably growing.
According to one estimate, those without a legal right to be
here generate net fiscal costs approaching $10 billion
nationally. The State of California is reported to have spent
almost $3 billion in a single year providing services to
illegal immigrants. By one estimate, the county of San Diego
spends more than $50 million a year to arrest, jail, prosecute,
and defend illegal immigrants. Of that, Federal reimbursement
covers only about $2 million.
The health care system, already under severe strain, risks
being swamped by a continuing flood of uninsured illegal
immigrants, many of whom use hospital emergency rooms for
primary care. Federal law requires emergency medical
departments to treat everyone. The national costs of such
mandated free health services exceeds $1 billion annually. This
year Federal reimbursements will cover only one quarter of that
total. States, counties, and cities have a right to expect that
fiscal security will only come when the Federal Government
focuses on effective border security.
Decades-long neglect of the sovereign responsibility to
adequately police national boundaries and enforce national laws
has transferred immense burdens downstream to local taxpayers.
Any serious immigration reform must take account of those
ingovernmental impacts and protect States and localities from
fiscal shockwaves. From that perspective, effective external
and internal enforcement programs are essential prerequisites
to broader immigration reforms. Otherwise, any new immigration
law will suffer the fate of the last effort 20 years ago when
good intentions were overwhelmed by weak follow through.
When your basement's flooding, you plug the leaks first,
and then you start the remodeling job. Plugging our porous
immigration system using Federal dollars will free States and
counties to focus on their core responsibilities: To protect
the health and safety of all those seeking to build a better
community.
This morning, we're going to hear testimony from six
witnesses. Each of them brings a depth of experience and
insight on this important discussion, and we look forward to
their testimony. And without objection, the gentleman from
California's 31st District, Mr. Becerra, will sit with the
committee today.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Tom Davis follows:]
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Chairman Tom Davis. And, Mr. Becerra, you're recognized for
an opening statement. Thank you for being with us.
STATEMENT OF HON. XAVIER BECERRA, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
Mr. Becerra. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for allowing
me to sit. And thank you for being here. I want to thank in
advance the witnesses who will testify for their participation.
And certainly, we want to thank all those who have taken the
interest in being here as well on an issue that most of us
consider very important.
Nobody questions that immigration by undocumented
immigrants creates costs for States and local governments,
costs that are most severe here in the State of California. But
we can't lose sight of the other side of the ledger as well as
talk about this issue, the benefits that immigrants bring to
our local economies and our local communities.
[Audience boos and hisses.]
Mr. Becerra. A thorough examination of immigration policy
requires consideration of the overall impact of immigration and
immigrants on America, and that means looking at both the costs
and the benefits. That is why I believe we need effective
comprehensive immigration reform that addresses both costs and
benefits, not just a one-sided enforcement only approach.
In their prepared testimony, our witnesses describe very
persuasively the costs that immigration creates for local law
enforcement and health care. These problems are real, but
unfortunately, they are not new. They can be traced back to the
failures of our Federal immigration policy. Failure to
recognize the demand for immigrant labor in our economy,
failure of the Federal Government to fund the needs of State
and local government, failure of the Federal Government to
repay State and local governments for unfunded mandates, and
the failure to secure our borders. In short, Mr. Chairman, our
immigration system is broken and the Federal Government has
failed to respond.
Congress has an obligation to enact practical, effective
immigration reform and to do it now. This is the third hearing
in the House----
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
Chairman Tom Davis. Please. You're our guests here. We're
happy to have you here, but we don't want you interrupting the
speakers in debate.
Go ahead, Mr. Becerra.
Mr. Becerra. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
This is I believe the third hearing that's being held here
in San Diego on the part of the House of Representatives. And
it's a hearing to discuss a bill that the House has already
passed. I want us to think about this for just a second. The
House of Representatives back in December 2005 passed
legislation to change our immigration laws, the Senate back in
July did the same, and today, we're holding a hearing.
Throughout this month we're holding any number of hearings--I
believe it's about 21 hearings, the House of Representatives
will be holding throughout the Nation. And we're holding them
after the bill has already been passed. That's very similar to
a parachutist saying that he's going to jump from a plane and
pack his parachute after he's jumped. You have to look before
you leap. In this case, the House of Representatives leapt back
in December 2005, and now we're being told let's take a look.
That's not the way you make policy. We don't need more
hearings, we need action.
Instead of spending the summer on a taxpayer-funded
traveling hearing or press conference, the House should be
working with the Senate to pass effective bipartisan
immigration reform. We need practical, comprehensive reforms
that secure our Nation's homeland, recognize the role of
immigration in our economy and our communities, and does credit
to America's creed as the land of opportunity.
Mr. Chairman, I'm pleased to be here. I look forward to the
testimony, and I hope before we conclude this session of the
House of Representatives and the Senate come late September,
early October that we will have a bill that's comprehensive in
its approach to immigration reform that the President will sign
and move this Nation forward. Yield back.
Chairman Tom Davis. All right. Thank you very much, Mr.
Becerra.
And again, failure of Congress to act means the status quo.
That continues to mean unfunded mandates on State and local
governments.
I'd ask unanimous consent to insert into the record a
statement by Representative David Dreier of California without
objection.
[The prepared statement of Hon. David Dreier follows:]
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Chairman Tom Davis. Now, Members will have 7 days to submit
opening statements for the record.
I'm going to now recognize our panel of witnesses: Mr.
Miguel Unzueta, the Special Agent in Charge of San Diego SAC,
U.S. Customs and Immigration Enforcement; Mr. William Kolender,
the sheriff, San Diego County; Supervisor Bill Horn, the
chairman of the San Diego Board of Supervisors; Mr. Steven A.
Escoboza, the president and CEO of the Hospital Association of
San Diego and Imperial Counties; State Senator Denise Moreno
Ducheny, the 40th District, thank you very much for being with
us, Senator; and Dr. Bronwen Anders, who is a professor of
pediatrics at the University of California at San Diego and
former president of San Diego Chapter of American Academic of
Pediatrics.
It's a policy of our committee that we swear all witnesses
before you testify. So if you'd just rise with me and raise
your right hands.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Chairman Tom Davis. Senator, I know you have to catch a
plane and be out of here no later than 12:15. So I think we
will get to you in plenty of time, but hopefully the hearing
won't take too long and we can get through some questions with
you as well. I will start, Mr. Unzueta, with you, and we will
move straight down.
We have a light, I think, in front of you that goes orange
after 4 minutes and red after 5. I think that's correct. Try to
keep it to 5 minutes. Your entire statement is in the record
and the questions that we've prepared at least based on the
entire statement that we put in the record. So if we can keep
to 5 minutes, we can move this along. Thank you very much for
being with us, and thank you for your service to the country.
STATEMENTS OF MIGUEL UNZUETA, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE OF SAN
DIEGO SAC, U.S. IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT; WILLIAM B.
KOLENDER, SHERIFF, SAN DIEGO COUNTY; BILL HORN, CHAIRMAN, SAN
DIEGO BOARD OF SUPERVISORS; STEVEN A. ESCOBOZA, PRESIDENT AND
CEO, HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION OF SAN DIEGO AND IMPERIAL COUNTY;
DENISE MORENO DUCHENY, STATE SENATOR, 40TH DISTRICT, SAN DIEGO,
CA; AND BRONWEN ANDERS, PROFESSOR OF PEDIATRICS, UNIVERSITY OF
CALIFORNIA AT SAN DIEGO, FORMER PRESIDENT, SAN DIEGO CHAPTER,
AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS
STATEMENT OF MIGUEL UNZUETA
Mr. Unzueta. Thank you, Chairman Davis and Congressman
Becerra. It's an honor for me to appear before you today
representing U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement [ICE], to
discuss our efforts in combating illegal immigration within the
interior of the United States, specifically in the areas of
work site enforcement and document fraud. ICE's current work
site enforcement strategy is part of a comprehensive layered
approach that focuses on how illegal aliens get into our
country, the ways in which they obtain identity documents
allowing them to become employed, and the employers who
knowingly hire them.
ICE is bringing criminal prosecutions and using asset
forfeiture as tools against employers of unauthorized workers
rather than to rely upon administrative fines as sanctions
against such activity. Using this approach, ICE work site
investigations now support felony charges and not just the
traditional misdemeanor work site violations. Of course, a key
component of our work site enforcement efforts targets the
businesses and industries that deliberately profit from the
wholesale employment of unauthorized workers.
In April 2006, ICE conducted the largest work site
enforcement operation ever undertaken. This case involved IFCO
Systems, a Houston based pallet supply company. ICE agents
executed 9 Federal arrest warrants, 11 search warrants, and 41
consent searches at IFCO work site locations throughout the
United States. In addition, ICE agents apprehended 1,187
unauthorized workers at IFCO work sites. This coordinated
enforcement operation also involved investigative agents--
agents from the--and officers from the Department of Labor, the
Social Security Administration, the Internal Revenue Service,
and the New York State Police.
The criminal defendants have been charged with conspiracy
to transport and harbor unlawful aliens for financial gain as
well as fraud and misuse of immigration documents. ICE has
launched several investigations to enhance national security
and public safety here in California and throughout the Nation.
Operations Tarmac and Glowworm are national initiatives focused
on securing the Nation's airports and nuclear facilities
respectively, including such facilities here in California.
Operation Safe Cities, as an ICE initiative, started in
December 2003 to identify and remove unauthorized employees
from critical infrastructure businesses and facilities in the
San Diego area including military installations, airports,
nuclear facilities, and hazardous material transportation
companies. This initiative includes an outreach program to
educate employers on how--the law and its requirements with
regard to employing foreign nationals in the United States. To
date, Safe Cities has resulted in the review of more than 1,200
businesses in critical infrastructure industries and the
removal of 537 unauthorized employees from businesses and
facilities, including Camp Pendleton, the San Diego Airport,
Amtrak, the San Onofre nuclear reactor, Northrop Grumman,
several naval air stations, and others. These and other
nationwide critical infrastructure operations demonstrate how
ICE is using immigration laws to remove potential threats from
California and from our Nation's most sensitive facilities.
Because the vast majority of employers do their best to
comply with the law, ICE has developed the Mutual Agreement
between Government and Employers [IMAGE]. A new voluntary
corporate outreach program aimed at strengthening overall
hiring practices in the workplace, this outreach program
emphasizes enhanced employer compliance through corporate due
diligence, training, and the sharing of best practices. It also
provides employers with a comprehensive tool to avoid
immigration violations within their own company, and to impact
their industry and change the culture of tolerance for those
who employ illegal workers.
Despite these efforts, the growing prevalence of
counterfeit documents interferes with the ability of legitimate
employers to hire lawful workers. In short, the employment
process cannot continue to be tainted by the widespread use and
acceptance of fraudulent identification documents. Many of our
investigations uncover fraud violations linked to other
Federal, State, and local crimes. Over the past several years,
the number of benefit fraud and document fraud investigations
launched by ICE has increased, so have the number of criminal
indictments, arrests, and convictions in these areas. Given our
broad ICE authorities, ICE is in a unique position to
investigate these cases and successfully prosecute the
perpetrators.
In April 2006, ICE announced the creation of 11 new
Document and Benefit Fraud task forces as one of the primary
methods to eliminate vulnerabilities within the immigration
process. Modeled after and built upon the successes of the
Eastern District of Virginia Immigration and Visa Fraud Task
Force, the Document and Benefit Fraud task forces detect,
deter, and disrupt criminal organization and individuals that
pose a threat to national security and public safety through
the use of documents and benefit fraud schemes. The task forces
are built on strong partnerships with prosecutors from the
Department of Justice as well as Federal, State, and local law
enforcement officers.
ICE has formally announced these task forces in Atlanta,
Boston, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Los Angeles, Newark, New York,
Saint Paul, Washington, and Washington, DC. ICE is dedicated to
this mission. Thank you for inviting me, and I'll be happy to
answer your questions.
Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Unzueta follows:]
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Chairman Tom Davis. Sheriff, thanks for being with us.
STATEMENT OF WILLIAM B. KOLENDER
Mr. Kolender. Mr. Chairman, good morning and thank you for
giving me the opportunity to appear before this committee and
provide testimony regarding the specific impact of illegal
immigration on local law enforcement.
As the chief law enforcement officer of this county and
with nearly 50 years of law enforcement experience, I know
firsthand that illegal immigration has plagued local law
enforcement and this county for decades. Although many illegal
border crossers enter our country in search of employment, some
of them do commit crimes in the county and end up in our jails.
The cost of staff hours, equipment, and administrative work
associated with the detention and/or arrest of undocumented
foreign-born citizens is difficult to approximate, but the
figures are in the millions.
Without full-time immigration staffing in our jails, we
don't know the true impact that illegal immigration has on our
county. Currently, jail personnel notify immigration officials
of all persons who are booked in jail who claim non U.S.
citizenship or who are foreign born. Their fingerprints are
then compared against a Federal data base to help determine the
immigration status. Immigration authorities place holds on
these individuals suspected of being here illegally, and the
jails coordinate their release to immigration officials when
their local case has been concluded. That process has been
carried on successfully for more than 4,400 times in the last
12 months.
An interesting statistic, though, shows that over an 18-
month period, 25 percent of the individuals deported after
incarceration not only reenter this country, but reenter our
jails at least once, some as many as five times. It is
important, therefore, to recognize that as long as the border
remains porous, efforts like ours will have very limited
results.
San Diego's law enforcement officers do not arbitrarily
stop individuals solely on suspicion of immigration status
while patrolling the streets of our county. There must be a
reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. If there is no
probable cause to arrest a subject, the officer will complete a
field interview report and release the individual. However, if
in the course of an investigation an officer or deputy sheriff
determines that the subject's immigration status is in
question, the Border Patrol will be notified and asked to
respond. If the Border Patrol can respond in a reasonable
amount of time, the law enforcement officer will remain with
the subject until their arrival. At that time, the officer will
relinquish control of the subject to the Border Patrol.
In preparation for today's hearing I contacted all of the
police chiefs in this county as well as my own patrol station
commanders for their impact concerning the illegal immigration
on their departments and command areas. The responses were
similar and addressed a common theme. Illegal immigration
impacts the delivery of law enforcement services in this
county, affecting calls for service, the crime rate, and our
budgets.
Some of the more commonly reported crimes include:
Auto theft: Cars are stolen and used for transportation.
Most illegal immigrants arrive in this county without
transportation and without the means to purchase a vehicle.
Public drunkenness: This is common throughout the county,
and sometimes leads to calls for disturbing the peace.
Domestic violence: Many illegal immigrants come from
countries where violence against woman is accepted or at least
tolerated. Some bring this attitude and behavior to the United
States.
Robbery: Illegal immigrants commit robberies, but they are
also victims since they normally carry only cash.
Traffic offenses: Drunk driving and hit-and-run accidents
frequently involve unlicensed drivers, and many of these
drivers are illegal immigrants.
Recently, during a law enforcement operation in North
County, over 100 vehicles were towed for a variety of vehicle
code violations, and the vast majority were driven by those
believed to be illegal immigrants. Frequent calls for service
involve loitering and suspicious activity, most of which are
the result of illegal immigrants congregating in large numbers.
Day laborers and their encampments also impact law
enforcement. Residents who fear crime and resent the perceived
devaluation of their property oftentimes call the Department.
Aggressive solicitation for work, drinking in public, and day
laborers using parking lots as restrooms are among some of the
calls that we receive.
Many encampments are remotely located, and contacting
people living in these camps requires multiple officer
response. The day laborer problems in the city of Vista were so
severe that the City Council recently enacted an ordinance to
deal with the issues. Gang activity among illegal immigrants is
also a big problem. According to my gang enforcement unit,
nearly 25 to 40 percent of local gangs are comprised of illegal
immigrants. In North County, nearly 80 percent of the gang
related crimes involve illegal immigrants either as suspects or
as victims.
Significant financial resources in dealing with protests
and counter protests related to illegal immigration have also
impacted law enforcement in this county. In 2005, our
Department alone spent almost $500,000 to provide a presence at
the various pro and anti-immigration demonstrations. The
majority of the border between San Diego County and Mexico lies
within the Sheriff's rural law enforcement command. Much of the
illegal immigrant and narcotic smuggling comes from this area
through Mexico. And many of the dealers or end users are in
fact illegal immigrants.
Residential and vehicle thefts in this area can be
attributed to either illegal immigrants themselves or the
smugglers guiding them across the border. Often, illegal
immigrants will work off a portion of their payment for being
smuggled into the United States by carrying narcotics.
We estimate that as much as 50 percent of the crime that
occurs in communities immediately adjacent to the U.S. Border,
Mexican border such as Campo, Boulevard, and Jacumba, is
committed by illegal immigrants. The rural command does not
have 24-hour staffing. Resident deputies are called from their
homes from 911 prowler calls occurring into the late night or
early morning hours. These calls require that two deputies
respond and, more often than not, illegal immigrants crossing
through this area are the culprits.
Both Border Patrol and Customs routinely turn over illegal
immigrants to the Sheriff's department that are found to have
outstanding warrants from their prior visit to the United
States.
Illegal immigrants sometimes become the victims of crimes.
They are robbed, assaulted, kidnapped, and held for payment by
family members, raped, and murdered. We have seen cases of
false reporting of crimes where illegal immigrants claim to be
crime victims so they won't immediately be deported. The
Sheriff's department frequently receives calls to rescue
illegal immigrants who are suffering from exposure to extreme
heat or cold. Many times they lack water, are injured, or
suffer from fatigue.
Another example recently of the strain that illegal
immigration places on law enforcement and firefighters was the
Horse Fire here that burned nearly 17,000 acres and is
estimated to have cost nearly $7 million to fight, not to
mention the 23 firefighters who were injured and citizens who
were evacuated and displaced for a period of time. The fire
required sheriff resources for a full week staffing our
emergency operations center, and as many as 75 deputies were
committed in the field for possible evacuation of the homes.
The fire was determined to have been originated by an
unattended camp fire in Horse Thief Canyon, a regular immigrant
smuggling corridor.
As Congress and the President wrestle with these difficult
issues, it is important that national policy reflect a clear
understanding of the enormous challenges that local law
enforcement face in dealing with immigration issues. And
finally, as Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger of California has
stated, national security is the responsibility of the Federal
Government and should not be passed off to State and local
governments.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and members.
Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Kolender follows:]
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Chairman Tom Davis. Chairman Horn, thanks for being with
us.
STATEMENT OF BILL HORN
Mr. Horn. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to
present San Diego County's testimony. Illegal immigration is
significant and it has an adverse effect on local government.
San Diego's proximity to the southern U.S. Border and the fact
that the county of San Diego's responsible for providing
essential services only amplifies this effect. I believe the
illegal immigration issue is far greater than most are willing
to admit. While current law and circumstances make it very
difficult to accurately quantify the impact of this problem, it
is immense.
My colleagues on the Board of Supervisors and I have
commissioned a study to approximate the cost of illegal
immigration on the county treasury. Unfortunately, the study
will not be completed until late November. Part of the problem
is that many of the children of illegal immigrants are born in
the United States and are legal citizens of this country
entitled to all the privileges that citizenship provides. This
means that regions across America, and particularly those close
to the border, are bearing the weight of providing services to
children whose parents are often not paying taxes for those
services.
Border counties have a younger impoverished population. For
example, according to the U.S./Mexico Border Counties Coalition
study entitled ``At the Crossroads'' in border counties, 43
percent of the children between zero and 17 years of age live
in poverty. In nonborder counties, that's only 34 percent of
the population. With higher levels of childhood poverty, there
is a greater demand for government service.
One of the services San Diego County provides which is
heavily utilized by illegal immigrants is pre and postnatal
care as administered by public nurses. While the child, by
virtue of being born on U.S. soil, is legal, the mother may not
be. This significantly increases the workload and the wait
times for public health nurses, making it more difficult for
those legal residents to get care. While most people in
violation of immigration laws are here to work, some are here
to take further advantage of our open society.
The North County Regional Gang Task Force is a team of
local, State, and Federal law enforcement groups. They target
sophisticated street gangs involving major narcotics sales,
transportation, and smuggling as well as violent crimes.
In 2005, out of the 448 arrests 232 of them were in
violation of immigration laws. For the first half of 2006, the
team already arrested 433 individuals. Of those, 367 are in
violation of immigration laws. That is a staggering 85 percent.
This is extremely troublesome. While the daily average of costs
per inmate in county jails being $90 a day and the average stay
6 days, the costs alone for the 2006 illegal immigrant arrests
is at least $198,000. This is not including the expense of
apprehension.
Our porous borders and weak immigration laws pose a
considerable public safety risk. This isn't just about money.
It's about people's lives. As long as the border is insecure,
we'll continue to import drugs and violence. According to the
U.S./Mexico Border Counties study, if the border counties were
the 51st State, they would rank first in Federal crimes, second
in incidence of tuberculosis. And I might point out in 1994
when I first became a supervisor, we had only three cases of
tuberculosis in the county of San Diego, third in death is due
to hepatitis, 50th in the percent of population that has
completed high school, and 51st in the number of health care
professionals. You can see we're greatly understaffed.
Reform is necessary for the State and local government to
continue to provide quality services. State and local
governments do not have control of the border or control of
immigration, but they have to live with the effects of this
every day. The cost of inaction arises every day. We're not
talking about thousands of dollars, but millions. San Diego
County may be the gateway to Mexico, but my taxpayers in the
county of San Diego have become the doormat.
Every dollar spent providing service to illegal immigrants
is a dollar that is not used for the taxpaying citizens. And I
personally think, and my colleagues do, that that is
unacceptable.
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Horn follows:]
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Chairman Tom Davis. Mr. Escoboza. You need to turn your mic
on there.
STATEMENT OF STEVEN A. ESCOBOZA
Mr. Escoboza. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Congressman
Becerra. Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this
hearing today.
The Hospital Association of San Diego and Imperial Counties
is a nonprivate 501(C)(6) trade association that represents
hospitals on matters of public policy, legislative advocacy,
public advocacy, and media relations. We're affiliated with the
California Hospital Association and the American Hospital
Association.
The hospital delivery system in San Diego is unique to
health delivery in the State for many reasons. One obvious
distinction is our geography in proximity to the U.S./Mexico
border. Another distinction is that there are no county-owned
or operated public hospitals. And so private hospitals serve as
a safety net for all inpatient, emergency, and trauma services
for all county residents regardless of their ability to pay.
While this can be attributed to various Federal, State and
local laws and regulations, it is also so because our local
hospitals serve the San Diego community as part of their
overarching mission to provide health care to all who require
it.
The health care safety net delivery system in San Diego is
at capacity and very fragile at this time. A recent and ongoing
health care safety net study commissioned by the Board of
Supervisors demonstrates that there are great threats to the
safety net unless a significant list of challenges posed in the
study can be addressed. While all these challenges are
formidable, addressing emergency department overcrowding and
the access risks that the entire community faces, if
overcrowding is not a priority issue, is clearly evident in
this report. The causes of emergency department overcrowding
are all well documented here. Increased number of uninsured
people, increased usage by Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries
in the ED, work force shortages, especially nurses and on-call
specialists reduce possible reimbursement, lack of in-patient
beds and an overall increase in the emergency department
utilization.
Exacerbating the problem of increased overcrowding of
emergency departments is the population of undocumented
immigrants who do not qualify for the emergency services under
Medicaid. While there is not yet clear data indicating the
proportion of immigrants contributing to the over crowding of
our EDs estimates ranging from 5 percent to 20 percent of ED
visits in this State are attributed to undocumented immigrants.
I've been asked by the committee to respond to four
particular areas of concern to the committee: The fiscal impact
of legal immigration; how the Emergency Treatment and Labor Act
[EMTALA], affects health coverage of illegal immigrants in San
Diego; what measurements can be taken by the Federal and State
government to curb the burden of illegal immigration in
California's health care delivery system; and last, how Federal
Health and Human Services guidelines on Medicaid eligibility
will impact the health care system in San Diego.
The California Office of Health--State wide health planning
development reports that in 2005 uncompensated care, meaning
charity care and bad debt provided by all hospitals in the
State was approximately $5.5 billion. Of that amount,
approximately $1.4 billion is attributed to illegal immigration
use. In San Diego County, approximately $476 million in
uncompensated care is provided by local hospitals with
approximately $119 million attributed to illegal immigration
use.
The Emergency Treatment and Labor Act directs hospitals to
provide medical screening examination to people who present in
the emergency department, regardless of their ability to pay or
their immigration status for the purpose of identifying an
emergency medical condition. While the objectives of this act
address the core functions and mission of our local hospitals
to provide quality care to all patients, the ramification is a
burgeoning patient population flow through the emergency
departments and trauma centers in San Diego. Again, aggravating
this growth in our emergency department usage is the population
of immigrants who don't qualify for emergency medical services.
Section 1011 of the Medicare Modernization Act of 2003
targets this population with supplemental resources.
Unfortunately, access to the funding is contingent upon the
hospital completing provider payment determination
questionnaires. The process to receive reimbursement is
cumbersome and requires additional financial services personnel
to manage and coordinate the implementation of Section 1011.
Additionally, hospitals must gather from patients
complicated immigration documentation which is time consuming
and rarely forthcoming. Because the Center for Medicare/
Medicaid Services believes that the primary purpose of EMTALA
services is to stabilize the patient on an emergency rather
than to cure the underlying illness or injury, under Section
1011, payment will be made for medically necessary emergency
services from the individuals from the time of the individual's
arrival at the hospital emergency department until the patient
is stabilized.
While patient stabilization is subject to some
interpretation by CMS, usually meaning treat and release and
some admission time, usually CMS will not cover the entire
patient's stay. CMS believes that most patients are stabilized
within 2 calendar days after inpatient admission. The cost of
hospital services provided under Section 1011 should a hospital
weather the provider payment determination process is very
limited with all additional inpatient costs being borne by the
hospital.
Given their mission and the current Federal law, EMTALA,
hospitals will continue to provide patient care for all those
who present in their emergency departments regardless of
immigration status or ability to pay. Obviously, stronger
enforcement at our borders that curtails illegal entry would
curb some of the burden on hospitals. But important also is
that hospitals want to avoid turning their health care
professionals and hospital financial people into immigration
experts. The onerous and cumbersome processes that have been
put in place or will be put in place under Section 6036 of the
Deficit Reduction Act distract from hospital operational and
support services and could ultimately impact patient care.
Hospital personnel must have the ability to focus on providing
care rather than worrying about immigration status of patients.
While sound public health policy dictates that the health
of communities is enhanced by everyone being able to access
health care through mechanisms such as EMTALA, there is also a
need to strengthen border public health efforts along the
border to address the burden, not just on hospitals and
emergency departments, but also the threat of communicable
diseases and environmental risks that impact hospitals,
clinics, and physician offices indirectly because of the
border's proximity to San Diego.
I hope my responses to the areas of the committee's concern
about illegal immigration on hospitals in San Diego are
helpful. I'll be looking forward to addressing any questions
you might have.21Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Escoboza follows:]
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Chairman Tom Davis. Senator, thank you for being with us.
STATEMENT OF DENISE MORENO DUCHENY
Ms. Ducheny. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and
Congressman Becerra. Welcome to San Diego. And we are certainly
pleased to have the opportunity to testify before you today.
I would say just for my own self and for your background as
questions, that my current position in the Senate is to Chair
the Budget Subcommittee on Health and Human Services. In the
past, in the Assembly I chaired the Budget Committee of the
Assembly for several years. And prior to that, I was a
practicing immigration attorney here in San Diego for over 15
years, both before and after IRCA.
And it is in that context, Members, that we want to
recognize how much this immigration reform debate has become
highly controversial in Washington, but we sincerely hope that
significant reform can be accomplished during this legislative
session. It is also appropriate that you meet in San Diego
where the realities of immigration, both positive and negative
impacts, are an integral part of our everyday life. This is
particularly true in the 40th District which I'm privileged to
represent, including the entire California/Mexico border and
adjacent communities in San Diego, Imperial, and Riverside
counties.
Let me say at the outset that California has certainly
experienced costs associated with immigration. You've heard
from some of my colleagues on this panel today. We certainly
don't appreciate all the crime that comes with smuggling, that
occurs with drugs, or human trafficking through our
neighborhoods. You've heard from some of the locals about some
of these things. And certainly I want to take the opportunity
at least to be here to reiterate the State's concern with
recent cuts to Federal programs which have in the past
compensated us at least partially for some of these public
safety and health care costs associated with our position as a
border State.
When the Border Patrol brings injured immigrants to our
hospitals without taking responsibility to pay for their care,
refuses to assume liability for immigrants who die crossing our
deserts, throwing the burden of autopsies and funeral
arrangements on our counties, and when the Federal Government
refuses to prosecute drug smugglers leaving that responsibility
to our State courts without any compensation to support
prosecutions or incarcerations, we are forced to spend scarce
State resources to meet the needs of safety and security in our
communities. Some of these State concerns must be addressed if
we're to have a true Federal partnership, particularly with the
States on our international borders.
I would just statistically point out, following on Sheriff
Kolender's statistics at the county level the most recent data
I have from our prisons indicates that about 17 percent of
prisoners in California, about 28,000 out of 170,000 are
foreign born, of which that can be various status of
immigration, but foreign born could be even U.S. citizens.
5,000 of the 170,000 prisoners we hold today are--have
immigration holds on them. So that gives us some sense at least
of that universe. Only 5,000 have immigration holds.
So the volume of crime from this population seems less, and
as certainly our numbers say, at a lower rate foreign-born
residents as a lower per capita rate than native born.
That said, Californians are--clearly understand that we are
also the beneficiaries of the talent and work ethic brought to
us by a large immigrant population. A recent Union-Tribune poll
shows that 70 percent of Californians support comprehensive
reform including development of a path to citizenship and a
practical guest worker program to allow immigrants to continue
their contributions to our communities.
Our universities have also done compelling research that
demonstrates the net effect of immigration on California and
U.S. economies and on our culture has been positive. While the
precise economic impact of undocumented workers is difficult to
quantify, we do know that the vast majority work every day in
this State and others building new homes to meet our growth
needs, harvesting the crops that feed our people, and have made
California the No. 1 agricultural producer and exporter in our
Nation.
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
[Audience boos and hisses.]
Chairman Tom Davis. Now----
Ms. Ducheny. They also serve food in our restaurants----
Chairman Tom Davis. You know, everybody, I know there are a
lot of strong feelings in this room on both sides, but we'd
like to be able to keep this--the decorum that's appropriate
for a congressional hearing. And if we don't, we'll have to
clear the room.
Go ahead.
Ms. Ducheny. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
They also serve food in our restaurants, clean our hotels,
and maintain our landscapes, all of which benefits one of our
other largest industries, tourism. Proposals that would
immediately deport or criminalize this population would have a
dramatic negative impact on our economy. I point only
tangentially to yesterday's newspaper here talking about a
farmer in Salinas who has lost over $200,000 this year because
he cannot find sufficient workers to pick his crops.
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
Ms. Ducheny. Despite the myths that undocumented workers
send all their earnings back home, corporations across America
recognize their buying power and eagerly expand their selling
strategies to capture this growing consumer market. We have
small business people who don't capture all of the income
because of the underground nature of much of what is happening.
But we know that all these workers pay some taxes into our
system. Many have payroll income tax, Social Security, and
unemployment deducted from pay each week, although they are
unable to collect appropriate refunds or benefits from these
deductions. They pay sales tax every time they purchase clothes
and shoes for their children or appliances for their homes.
They pay property tax through rent payments, even if they are
not homeowners. And our experience shows their U.S. citizen
children are sure to hold higher paying jobs, pay more taxes,
and they even have sacrificed their lives as members of our
armed services.
The current situation does have costs, and others have
spoken of that. I believe the largest costs to the State are
probably those associated with the delivery of emergency health
care services. Since undocumented immigrants are not eligible
for temporary assistance to needy families [TANF], SSI, food
stamps or many of our housing and social services programs,
emergency health care is the one public program most impacted.
Researchers at UCLA and USC have also indicated to us that
immigrants on the whole are less likely to use public services,
and even before the enactment of the Personal Responsibility
Act in 1996. That was true then. It's true now since they're
clearly ineligible for them since the passage of that act.
Most immigrants, especially those without lawful permanent
status are employed by businesses who do not provide health
insurance for them. So we see many patients in emergency rooms
who would not be there if they had access to preventive care or
disease management services. Accessing the health care system
through the most costly avenue, emergency rooms, only
exacerbates the financial impact on the State. However, even
with this reality, our research indicates that health care
costs for immigrants are 55 percent lower than those of native
citizens. Immigrants as a whole are a younger population, at
least in California. They are that working age population; 72
percent are between the ages of 18 and 39. They are the working
and relatively healthy population and therefore tend to use our
services at a lower rate than native born citizens.
All of this leads us, and I believe I speak for the
majority of my legislative colleagues and on behalf of most of
our business communities looking to Congress to create the
opportunity for these hard working neighbors and employees to
emerge from the shadows of our economy and expand their
contributions to our society.
[Audience boos and hisses.]
Ms. Ducheny. By creating a program of earned legalization
as proposed by the Senate, we may fully realize the economic
benefits of this population. Legalized immigrants will pay more
taxes, be able to acquire health insurance to lessen the burden
of uncompensated care in our hospitals and become more active
in our society. This was our experience with immigrants from
all nations in this State, including those who acquired lawful
permanent status and became U.S. citizens following the 1986
passage of IRCA.
This community wants reform that works for our businesses,
our economy, and what is good for our families. We must allow
our economy to continue growing. That demands a work force that
is skilled in different trades. The vast majority of immigrants
who have come to this country to work have proven that they
work hard. It is not helpful to the California economy to
outsource jobs to other countries when we're unwilling to allow
the people here to do those jobs.
You have an opportunity to create meaningful reform based
on fact and statistics, not politics of fear and rhetoric. We
hope you will be able to do that in this session. Again, I
appreciate the opportunity to address your committee. We do
think investment in economic growth. We need border security.
But border security also includes fully staffing our border
crossings, a special plea for those of us from Tecate and
Calexico to open our border crossings and fully staff them. We
think that would help with the security, and it would also help
a lot of people get back and forth across the border for legal
business on a regular basis. We don't have fully staffed border
crossings. We don't have fully staffed security in this area.
And we certainly all want to stop the kinds of smuggling
activities that Sheriff Kolender talked about.
We do hope you can recognize that and that you will
eliminate unreasonable quota restrictions, which also have
required families to be separated for decades awaiting
determination of permanent resident status, and that you can
create a fair, clear, and simplified process for periodic
importation of temporary labor if and when needed to sustain
particularly our agricultural economy.
Finally, I have taken the opportunity to provide your staff
also copies of a policy--immigration policy statement from the
Border Legislative Conference of which I'm a member, Border
State Legislators. And I would also note Western Governors
Association, the Council of State Governments West, and the
National Conference of State Legislators have all taken similar
positions seeking congressional action on comprehensive
immigration reform.
Thank you very much.
[Audience boos and hisses.]
Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you, Senator.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Ducheny follows:]
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Chairman Tom Davis. Dr. Anders.
STATEMENT OF BRONWEN ANDERS
Dr. Anders. Thank you Chairman Davis. Mr. Becerra.
Chairman Tom Davis. Let me just ask. We have one more
witness to get through. Can we just have some decorum. Let them
state their case, and then we'll get to questions.
Thank you, Dr. Anders.
Dr. Anders. My name is Dr. Bronwen Anders. I've worked in
pediatric settings in San Diego County for the last 25 years,
including the University Hospital Primary Care Clinic for
Children, private practice, community health centers, and I'm
currently a consultant for the Indian clinics in East San Diego
County.
I represent the American Academy of Pediatrics which is an
organization of 60,000 primary care pediatricians whose--who
are deeply committed to protecting the health of children,
adolescents, and young adults in the United States. Our
testimony at today's hearing will focus on children, the
innocent victims of illegal immigration. Children, whether they
are undocumented or not, need care in our communities. Most
immigrant children's care should be preventive, but too often
that care is foregone, leading to far more costly and
frequently inappropriate emergency room and hospital care.
Unfortunately, immigrant children often do not receive the care
they need because of Federal, State, and local laws, limiting
payment for their care or a generalized belief that if children
seek care, their families or loved ones may become the target
of law enforcement.
Early preventive care for children, for instance, with
asthma and diabetes, can keep them out of much more expensive
hospital care. One in every five American children is a member
of an immigrant family. About one-third of the Nation's low
income, uninsured children live in immigrant families. Children
of immigrants, often racial or ethnic minorities, experience
significant health disparities. Many immigrant families also
have varied immigration statuses that confer different legal
rights and affect the extent to which these families are
eligible for public programs such as SCHIP and Medicaid. As a
result, foreign born children may be ineligible for insurance
coverage while his or her younger U.S. born sibling is eligible
as a native citizen.
Beyond the health status of the child, communities should
also care about the health of the children who live in them.
Because immigrant children may have diseases that are rarely
diagnosed in the United States. Left untreated, these diseases
may be passed on to the communities in which immigrant children
reside. Tuberculosis is an example of this that can be readily
picked up as a preventive screen in well child checks thereby
eliminating more costly care down the road with some risk to
the community. In addition, many foreign born children have not
been immunized adequately or lack documents verifying their
immigration status. And we described in the paperwork we've
handed out how measles and mumps epidemics recently in this
country may have come from populations of under-immunized
children.
One of the most important risk factors for lack of health
coverage is a child's family immigration status. Some children
in the United States are ineligible for Medicaid and SCHIP
because of immigrant eligibility restrictions. Medicaid and
SCHIP are not available to most immigrant children because of
eligibility restrictions imposed by various Federal laws, two
examples of which include the sponsor deeming rule and the
recently promulgated citizenship and identification
documentation requirements. These bureaucratic delays can
prevent prompt treatment not only for immigrant children but
also children new to foster care systems, victims of domestic
violence, child abuse, and sexual abuse, and teens who might be
estranged from their families. The paperwork currently required
for newborns who, by definition are citizens irregardless of
maternal citizenship leads to unnecessary delays in Medicaid
benefits.
Recommendations that we want to propose to lawmakers is
that they should be aware of and sensitive to the onerous
financial, educational, geographic, linguistic, and cultural
barriers that interfere with achieving optimal health status
for immigrant children. This awareness should translate into
one, CMS confirming with States that newborns are presumed
eligible for Medicaid coverage. Paperwork should not delay
payment for services provided to resident newborns.
Two, the deemed sponsor rule should be changed so that
immigrant children are not denied access to care and, by
extension, quality care.
And three, the pooling of community resources to address
unpaid-for care provided by pediatricians in immigrant
children. Undocumented children receive care from pediatricians
and other caregivers in the community. Children, families, and
communities benefit from the provision of this care.
Communities should not expect those caregivers alone to provide
the resources needed to furnish this care.
Four, encouraging payment policies to support the
establishment of a medical home for all children residing in
the United States.
And five, outreach efforts for children who are potentially
eligible for Medicaid and SCHIP but not enrolled, with
simplified enrollment for both programs and State funding for
those who are not eligible for Medicaid or SCHIP.
In closing, the American Academy of Pediatrics seeks to
ensure that Congress keep in mind the children we care for as
it considers restructuring immigration law. Pediatricians and a
host of other health professionals provide care to children
throughout the United States. We must not compromise children's
health in the name of reform.
Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Anders follows:]
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Chairman Tom Davis. Let me thank all the panelists. By
agreement with Mr. Becerra and myself, I'll take 15 minutes for
questions and then Mr. Becerra will take 15 minutes for
questions. I understand you have to leave after--we're close,
Senator. But let me start with our representative from ICE, Mr.
Unzueta.
Under the catch and release policy, Border Patrol agents
are returning many illegal immigrants without prosecution.
While acknowledging our criminal justice resources are already
stretched thin, what effect do you think the catch and release
strategy has had on encouraging people to repeatedly come back
across the border? And yesterday we were at the border and saw
that sometimes it takes like 10 different episodes before
somebody will prosecute just given the burden in the offices of
the prosecution.
Mr. Unzueta. Well, I can't speak for the Border Patrol, as
they're a separate entity within the Department of Homeland
Security. I can certainly speak to ICE's position with ending
catch and release. Within the past summer, within this summer,
Secretary Chertoff has announced the Secure Border Initiative
Phase II which focuses on interior enforcement as part of that
strategy. The Office of Detention and Removal, which is
represented by a different agency head as opposed to myself
have gone out nationwide and secured additional bed space. In
addition to that, we have established a command center between
the ICE's Office of Investigation and Detention and Removal in
headquarters to coordinate where illegal immigrants are sent
and where bed space is available.
In essence, we have eliminated the catch and release policy
as far as ICE is concerned and the aliens that come into our
detention facilities. We have plenty of bed space here in San
Diego and throughout the southwest border. Again, when those
bed spaces reach limited capacity or when they're reaching
their maximum capacity we're able to go to this coordination
center and find exactly where bed space is available.
Chairman Tom Davis. But if somebody crosses illegally and
they're caught and the penalty is you basically send them back.
I mean, that's not a deterrent to try again. Is that fair to
comment.
Mr. Unzueta. Well, everybody that we come in contact with--
we're really focused, as far as our strategy, on national
security and public safety. Our agents work tirelessly in
complex conspiracy investigations, and our attempt is to try
and target the highest levels of criminal organizations.
Chairman Tom Davis. So if somebody has a past criminal
record and the like, obviously you're going to treat them--
you're going to take care of them.
Mr. Unzueta. Correct.
Chairman Tom Davis. They're going to be put away; you'll
work with Mexican authorities, whatever you have to do. But the
average person who's just crossing trying to come over here
looking for a new life who didn't want to go through the
paperwork, they're sent back basically with a slap on the wrist
and no penalty in coming back, is that----
Mr. Unzueta. In all likelihood they will be voluntarily
returned to Mexico. I don't want to speak for the Border Patrol
or for Customs and Border Protection, but they have undergone a
couple of new programs where they're working with Mexican
counterparts.
Chairman Tom Davis. The committee is familiar of that.
Construction industry insiders know where they can go to
obtain day laborers and get cheap labor. You know where these
sites are as well.
What is ICE's policy with respect to day laborer
congregation points? Does ICE ever establish identification
checkpoints where immigration documents are evaluated?
Mr. Unzueta. The day laborer sites haven't been productive
as far as our enforcement in the posture that we're taking.
Much of what we've done with work site enforcement is focusing
on employers as opposed to the employees. Looking at companies
that are egregious in their behavior of hiring illegal workers,
and targeting those companies and those industries with
criminal sanctions as opposed to notice of intent to fine,
which we found was not very productive.
Given the numbers of priority areas that we have and that
our focus right now is on national security and public safety,
quite honestly, the day laborer sites have not risen on the
level of priority, and so we aren't focused on those individual
areas.
Chairman Tom Davis. Sheriff, you mentioned that the city of
Vista enacted an ordinance to deal with their day laborer
problems. We have that in Herndon, in my county. The town of
Herndon, they were congregating at a 7-11. They set up a day
laborer site funded by the town, and the voters recalled the
council in the next election.
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
Chairman Tom Davis. Trying to deal--but again, it was the
Federal Government's failure to deal with the problem, and
everybody--in fact I've talked to the Mayor about it and he
said well, everybody said what are you going to do about it. He
did it, and tough issue for local governments.
What are the provisions of the ordinance in Vista and how
is the Sheriff's department working to curb the day laborer
problems?
Mr. Kolender. Oh, excuse me. The ordinance basically states
that you as an employer have to register with the city as
someone who hires day laborers. And you have a sticker on your
car that says that. The goal is to knock off the large crowds
of people.
Chairman Tom Davis. Been effective or do you have any
thought on that.
Mr. Kolender. So far, they say it's been somewhat
effective. It's relatively new.
Chairman Tom Davis. OK. Now you cite that nearly 25 to 40
percent of local gangs are comprised of illegal immigrants. In
the North County, nearly 80 percent of gang related crimes
involve illegal immigrants.
Does your gang enforcement unit work with ICE and the FBI?
Are we getting good cooperation across different jurisdictional
line? And if so, how does the Federal law enforcement assist
your gang unit's efforts?
Mr. Kolender. When they're arrested, they're turned over to
them--or they're booked and then it goes from there.
Chairman Tom Davis. Have they worked with you in gathering
intelligence on these issues.
Mr. Kolender. Yes. Yes.
Chairman Tom Davis. OK. Has there been a--we have recently
nationally put more money into gang prevention at the FBI
levels in Washington recognizing that a lot of these gang
members work across jurisdictions. In fact, in Fairfax, where
I'm from, people will come from LA and back and forth across
the borders. And I was in El Salvador last summer where we met
members trying to get out of MS-13 that had been back and
crossed the borders several times. This was a tattoo removal
program they had down there for members who were trying to get
out of gangs and explain how this works.
But really it goes across a lot of jurisdictional lines,
doesn't it?
Mr. Kolender. Certainly. In fact, we have the MS from the
Los Angeles here back and forth.
Chairman Tom Davis. Chairman Horn, as we continue the
process of strengthening our borders, in your experience as a
regional leader, what are the most effective strategies? Do we
need to focus on manpower at Border Patrol which has been
suggested by some of the other speakers? Do you need more
fences? You need more cameras? What's the right mix for this
area.
Mr. Horn. Well, as my testimony stated, the reality is, I
think the biggest concern to us at the boards of supervisors is
that our local taxpayers are being asked to pick up the cost of
poverty in Mexico. Because that's what's coming across the
border.
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
Mr. Horn. And I--you know, you could put in all the fences
you want. You can put in all the cameras in you want. The point
is that--and you mentioned to the Sheriff--I created the North
County Gang Task Force in 1995. It involves the FBI, the
Sheriff's department, all the local police departments, ICE,
and your local Federal attorney, our local district attorney.
It's been very effective. But the point is that 85 percent of
the crimes that are committed in North County by the gang
members are illegal aliens. And they shouldn't be here.
So somehow the Federal Government needs to take
responsibility for the border. We are on the borderline with a
Third World country. To be honest with you, I'm not into
Mexican politics. I'm only concerned about the health and
welfare of both the citizens living here and even the
noncitizens that happen to be here and the costs to my
taxpayers. We cannot afford this burden. And nobody seems to
want to pick up the tab for it. And they keep asking us to do
so. The sheriff mentioned the fire we just had, you know, $7
million worth of firefighting that took place that came out of
our budgets that should go to protecting homes of citizens,
what have you, we protected the Cleveland National Forest
because somebody illegally came across the border, created a
campfire and it got out of control.
So what I'm telling you is it's out of control. And you
know----
Chairman Tom Davis. Has the fence made a difference? Where
the fences----
Mr. Horn. I think the fence has made a difference where
it's at. But the problem, the fence is not completed. The
county of San Diego has over 3 years ago given authorization
for them to go ahead and put the fence in, and still the fence
is not completed.
So I would----
Chairman Tom Davis. But it makes a difference where you
have it is what I'm saying.
Mr. Horn. It makes a difference where you have it. But a
half done job is a half done job.
Chairman Tom Davis. I got ya. I got it. OK. Thanks.
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
Chairman Tom Davis. Also we've talked about the costs--I'm
going to get to health care in a second. But schools is a huge
cost, is it not.
Mr. Horn. Yeah. I left that part out of my testimony just
because we're running out of time here, and I'm looking at your
lights. But now that you ask me the question, I'll give you the
answer?
In the county of San Diego, just the education system
alone, and we don't control the education system at the Board
of Supervisors. But the cost to educate one child in California
is significant--and I'm sure the Senator could elaborate on
that--it's $11,264 per student. And assuming that only 100
children are of illegal parents and they're attending school
here, that cost is $1,126,000 a year. And I'm only talking
about 100 kids.
As you know if you've read the papers over the years, we've
had school districts that are collecting--you know, taking
buses down to the border and filling them up at Tecate and
bringing them back. I realize the issue with ADA. But the cost
to the public education system I think is tremendous. I don't
have jurisdiction over that, and I'm sure Senator Ducheny could
elaborate on that.
Chairman Tom Davis. Let me ask Senator Ducheny. You want to
elaborate on the education--of course some of the kids that are
born here of course are legal. Their brothers and sisters may
not be. But again, on the educational components, so much of it
is State and local funded, Federal Governments 7 percent
nationally go to school.
Ms. Ducheny. Probably less in California.
Chairman Tom Davis. Yeah, it's 2 percent in my county which
is a very affluent county. Again, the Federal Government's role
in trying to protect the borders because these are downstream
costs to local governments.
Ms. Ducheny. Well, and education is clearly one of the
larger costs. I didn't address it because I think partly we
view it as an investment. To a large degree, it is U.S. citizen
children----
[Audience boos and hisses.]
Ms. Ducheny. And often, even children who will become
citizens at some point in their lives or become lawful
permanent residents. And when they do that, they tend to have
that education, they're more likely to be better workers.
They're higher skilled workers, more likely to pay more taxes.
I mean, it's sort of a complicated formula when you start
playing that out.
Certainly there's a cost of direct----
Chairman Tom Davis. Let me just ask. Every study I have
seen shows that an immigrant's success in America is dependent
upon English language and education.
Ms. Ducheny. Right.
Chairman Tom Davis. Those two factors. If you get those
factors down, you're going to go up.
Ms. Ducheny. That's our experience here. And so the second
generation, you tend to see--or third generations, you get
Congressmen like Congressman Becerra. You know, you--sort of
second and third generation, you start to see much higher
income and benefits to the economy. So it's a little
complicated depending on who the children are. Certainly, you
know, we have 6\1/2\ million children in schools in California.
And about a quarter of them come in speaking a language other
than English.
Chairman Tom Davis. Well, let me ask this question and
anybody can answer it. How many of the key children of the
people that are here illegally just aren't going to school? The
opportunity is there. Are any of them staying home? They're
afraid to send them or aren't aware of it, or did they come
over here to get their kids educated? Anybody have a feel for
that? Does the educational--school serve as sort of a magnet in
terms of getting their kids educated.
Mr. Horn. I can say locally where I live I know the school
district has a number of kids that are involved, and I think
the parents want them there and they teach English, they try
to. But as far as having a number, I think the local laws and
the State law prevents us from taking that kind of a tally. So
we couldn't give you an answer for that.
Ms. Ducheny. But we encourage--we did have some discussion
of this in the past, and there was some problem--you know, if
they weren't in school, that would be a bigger problem for
Sheriff Kolender. So on the whole, we think it's better to have
them in school than not.
Mr. Horn. It's Federal law. It's not a State law. That's a
Federal--that's a Federal law.
Ms. Ducheny. There's court cases.
Chairman Tom Davis. Let me just ask our health experts,
we've closed four hospitals in San Diego area over the last few
years?
Mr. Escoboza. That's correct.
Chairman Tom Davis. Can you walk me through the economics
of that.
Mr. Escoboza. Well, we have hospitals in San Diego--we've
got 19 acute care hospitals here in San Diego, acute care
meaning they have emergency departments. As my testimony went,
the burden's really on the emergency department. But with
respect to the immigrants who may have a traumatic situation
who go into one of our six trauma centers, the length of stay
and the cost for the services in that trauma center and result
in other care in step-down hospitals or other arrangements is
where the cost just grows dramatically.
We have hospitals that have very thin margins. I can go
into a lot of detail about just reimbursement for----
Chairman Tom Davis. It's a tough business even without the
nonreimbursement, isn't it, because of reimbursements from the
government and from HMOs and everything else.
Mr. Escoboza. San Diego is a high-penetration managed care
county. And since the mid-80's, we have experimented with
managed care. As a result of that, though, the base for
reimbursement from the Federal and State governments in San
Diego is much lower. So when you compare us to the other 57
counties in the State or other States where Medicaid, or in
California Medi-Cal, is reimbursed at a much higher rate, you
can understand that economically we are in worse shape than
other hospitals.
Chairman Tom Davis. I understand the emergency care side.
What about someone who needs dialysis or something that gets
very expensive? On those kind of issues are we asking the
questions? Is there any pecking order? Are people who are here
illegally eligible for those services as well.
Mr. Escoboza. Virtually no services available. However, San
Diego has, I think, a very strong community partnership of
nonprofits that seek specialists care and try to get people who
are close to death into some sort of a treatment. There's an
organization here in San Diego called Reach Out to people who
specialize in working with retired doctors who try to refer
these patients to health care. But short of that, that's about
the only care that's available.
Chairman Tom Davis. So if you have a very serious illness
where you're going to need chemotherapy, something of this
sort, and you're here and you're not documented and don't have
insurance, it's very difficult to get care. Is that fair.
Mr. Escoboza. Almost impossible.
Chairman Tom Davis. Dr. Anders, is that your experience as
well?
Dr. Anders. Professionals along the border have worked hard
to find counterparts south of the border where there's a good
medical health care system. And we have a good working
relationship with our professional colleagues south of the
border. So if it's a nonemergent, long-term care kind of an
issue--for children, for instance, we know how to direct them
to good care south of the border.
What's more, we're building services on the border for kids
on both sides. And there's been a growing support for a
hospital right on the border that services children from both
sides.
Chairman Tom Davis. What has been the cooperation from the
Mexican authorities on doing these kind of issues, anybody, on
the health care side? Any cooperation.
Mr. Escoboza. Well, we've collaborated with our colleagues
on south of the border. But frankly, it's a resource issue
there too. As you know, the government there is very
centralized. So getting the resources and the attention, the
public policy that is needed from that side of the border, is
difficult.
Chairman Tom Davis. What does ICE do when you get someone
that's very, very ill? Do you just refer them into the hospital
system? Do you kind of take charge at that point to make sure
their health needs are met before you deport them or send them
back or turn them over to the prison system? How does that
work?
Mr. Escoboza. Actually, we have a contract with Alvarado
Hospital here in San Diego. And any time we need to refer
somebody there, we use that contract. And I believe our medical
expenses at the end of this fiscal year will approach close to
$1 million that's coming out of our budget.
Chairman Tom Davis. OK. Thank you very much. Mr. Becerra.
Mr. Becerra. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you all for
your testimony. I think you've helped, again, shed some light
on this. Most of what you've said I think you've said before or
has been said by someone else. But perhaps by saying it enough,
maybe we'll see some action taken in Washington, DC, and in the
White House.
I want to thank Senator Moreno Ducheny for being here. I
know that you're going to have to leave. So let me see if I can
start with you first, Senator, so perhaps you can help respond
here.
The House bill that passed back in December took an
enforcement only approach versus the Senate bill which was a
bipartisan bill which talked about enforcement, making sure our
borders are secure, but also talked about dealing with the
economic needs that you spoke about for the business community,
agriculture, and otherwise, and also addressing the fact that
we have a population that some estimate the size of the State
population of Ohio that resides here with undocumented status.
Do you have any sense, has anything been done to give you
and your colleagues in the State legislature and the Governor
some idea what it would cost the State of California if it were
to try to apprehend, prosecute, incarcerate, and then deport
the individuals who are in undocumented status, whatever number
is in California, but certainly the 10 to 12 million that are
estimated in the United States?
Ms. Ducheny. You know, I don't think we have any specific
costs. I mean, the best I have are some economic studies we
could give to you that show the needs of our labor force. And
the fact of our demographics, at least in California, is that
we have an aging population and sort of a college-age
population that are big bulks. And the truth of our working
force, the 18 to 40 to 50, the age that is most productive, are
in fact largely immigrant labor in this State.
Now, whether--and some of that's documented and some of
it's not. But our concern, and I think all our labor force
studies say we need to focus on that. That goes to the
education question in part, is keeping that work force so that
we have the work force that's necessary.
We have a population that is not growing as much
internally, I guess is the best way to say it. And so immigrant
work force has kept our economy growing over the last several
years. Those who immigrated under IRCA were an example of that.
You saw the more undocumented coming again later after the
1990's, after that sort of--you saw the folks who got legal
status in the early 1990's, you know, came above ground,
started paying taxes, became U.S. citizens, did the whole
thing, and then you started to see another demand for labor.
And I think goes back to the question of you know, nobody wants
people to break laws. But the question is whether the laws are
realistic at this point. And at least as a practicing attorney,
for years and years I watched Congress cutback on the annual
amounts of immigration quotas that were allowed for family
reunification and traditional methods of immigration.
And I think looking at that realistically and trying to
figure out what is the true number that makes sense as a
logical ongoing legal immigration is really kind of the
challenge that I think you guys face.
Mr. Becerra. Thank you. Let me go to Special Agent Unzueta
and ask you a question. Because I know that in a recent report
done by the Inspector General for Department of Homeland
Security they uncovered the fact that I guess in some cases I'm
not sure if it was just ICE personnel, but other personnel
within the Department of Homeland Security were being asked
because of budget and management issues, shortage of moneys, to
cut back on your use of gasoline to try to avoid driving any
more than necessary and to try to conserve as much gasoline and
other types of activities that would conserve on your
exhausting of resources as possible.
So let me ask this question: Given that it's already a
tight budget to begin with at Department of Homeland Security,
and certainly I suspect for ICE, would you have the resources
to go out and try to find and apprehend the 10 to 12 million or
so undocumented immigrants that we're told are in this country?
Mr. Unzueta. I think that would be a daunting challenge.
You know, to go out and try to apprehend those folks would
literally cripple our ability to conduct any criminal
investigations and to target any criminal organizations, which
is really what ICE as criminal investigators is designed to do.
Mr. Becerra. Let me ask this. I asked in the hearing that
took place in July here in San Diego of the Border Patrol
representative what one or two items, if you could be as
specific as possible, could you most use to help you do your
work better? And by that I don't mean just a global increase in
your budget. For example, the representative from the Border
Patrol mentioned electronic surveillance equipment that was the
type of drone activity--the drone aircraft that can fly
unmanned and help us patrol the border itself.
He also mentioned better tunnel detection equipment, which
I know you know quite a bit about. Those were the two things he
said. If I had a chance to say to you, Congress, give me some
resources so I could secure some equipment, he said overhead
detection by these drones and better tunnel detection equipment
are the two things I could best use.
Let me ask you: What one or two things, if you had a chance
to tell us and you knew it would happen, that Congress would
provide it, what would be the one or two things you would say
you most need.
Mr. Unzueta. I think the one thing we would be looking for
right now is a comprehensive immigration reform package.
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
[Audience boos and hisses.]
Mr. Becerra. Let me ask a question now of Chairman Horn and
also Sheriff Kolender because they deal with this day-to-day
here in the county of San Diego. In fact, I think Chairman
Horn, I think you used the words ``the costs of inaction.'' If
we don't get something done soon, the costs continue to fall on
the State and local governments. And I know the Senator could
probably respond to some of this as well, but let me focus on
the two representatives from the county of San Diego.
I know that there are some programs that the Federal
Government has that try to reimburse you for the services and
activities you undertake that are really--should be federally
borne, whether it's the incarceration of an immigrant who
doesn't have the right to be in this country or whether it's
the provision of a health care service to an immigrant who
doesn't have the right to be in this country.
But I think every study, every indicator, every witness
we've ever heard from has always said it's never been enough to
fully compensate the local governments for the costs that were
incurred. The program--both of you I know are very familiar
with the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program [SCAAP]. It's
a program that's been in existence for about 11 years now, and
it's a program that's meant to try to reimburse specifically
counties for the costs of trying to incarcerate undocumented
immigrants.
So far every year that the President has submitted his
budget to the Congress, he has proposed zero funding for SCAAP.
And Congress, fortunately, has always funded, to some degree,
the SCAAP program. Never enough. I think last year we funded--
we gave about $400 million for the SCAAP program nationwide
California, by itself, as the Senator I think could tell us,
would consume $750 to $800 million on its own. So clearly $400
million for the entire Nation isn't going to be enough.
What would happen if you didn't get whatever your county's
share of the California SCAAP funding is for this fiscal year
if you didn't have that money, Sheriff?
Mr. Kolender. It would obviously have a very negative
effect on our budget. As the chairman of the Board of
Supervisors here would be----
Mr. Becerra. You'd be coming to him a lot more often, I
suspect.
Mr. Kolender. Yes, I would.
Mr. Horn. He comes----
Mr. Kolender. We all would.
Mr. Horn. He comes to me too much already.
I would point out that we estimate alone, just in the
county of San Diego to incarcerate the prisoners he has in Otay
Mesa that are not legally here in the country but happen to be
locked up in our legal jail, it's about $50 million a year. You
gave us $2 million last year.
Mr. Becerra. $2 million.
Mr. Horn. So you owe us $48 million just for last year. So
it's not a cost that may come in the future. It's a cost that
his department and my county bears right now. I would just--you
know, I don't even want to make a profit on you. I'd be happy
with a 70--you know, a 25 percent discount just on the fees for
health care. If I could just submit a bill. I don't want to be
the person that says you're eligible or not eligible.
I happen to agree that if the child is here, they need to
be educated. If they're here, they ought to be healthy. If they
got tuberculosis, I want to attack the problem. The problem is
we have no control over this border.
And you mentioned the tunnels. And we have a lot of
tunnels. We had one big major one----
Mr. Becerra. Right.
Mr. Horn [continuing]. With a railroad in it. But you have
a criminal element on the other side of the border who--you
know, they're involved in their own government. I would like
you to quit making treaties and everything else until they
clean up their act. You are asking us----
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
Mr. Horn. I don't blame these folks for wanting to come
here and work, make their life better and bring their family
here. In fact, you know, I think that's probably the American
way; that's why we have a statue of liberty. But at the same
time, I do not believe that the legal taxpayers of the county
should be required to pick up the tab because the local
government doesn't want to address the issue.
Mr. Becerra. Chairman Horn, I think what you've said most
everyone would agree that if it's a Federal responsibility, the
Federal Government should cover that cost. If the Federal
Government's going to require you to do something, as we do by
law in certain cases, for example, health care services, that
we should then pony up whatever the costs would be that go
beyond what are truly State or local government costs. And I
think that's one of the reasons why so many of us are desperate
to try to get a comprehensive immigration reform proposal
passed this year----
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
Mr. Becerra [continuing]. So we can deal with that sooner
than later.
Ms. Ducheny. Can I--let me see if I can ask a question of
Mr. Escoboza and also of Dr. Anders--Senator, did you want to
say something?
Ms. Ducheny. I was just going to make one quick comment on
the SCAAP and then I'll leave. But I remember when I was
budgeteer in the Assembly in the late 1990's our SCAAP funding
was--the national funding was $750 million. It was never
enough. California got about $500 then. We've been steadily
declining the amount that we get--the proposed zeros and
Congress gets it back to $300. So when they're saying $300 or
$400, 10 years ago we were getting $750. That wasn't enough
then, and it should have been escalating, not declining.
Mr. Becerra. It's gone down pretty much from the 1990's
when we were getting a greater share. I think most of us would
agree with you there.
I wanted to ask Dr. Anders and Mr. Escoboza on the health
care side. And it's a tough side because here you're dealing
with, in many cases, life threatening cases. And as you pointed
out, and I think Mr. Escoboza you made a very good point about
this issue of stabilizing the patient.
The patient comes in, required by law and probably good
ethical standards in the health community to at least bring
that person back to a stable position. At some point the
Federal Government tells you you've stabilized. We no longer
will cover any costs of that individual who's undocumented to
be reimbursed by the Federal Government for the costs. The
hospital, county, the providers can't in most cases just say
that's when we cut that patient off of any kind of health
assistance.
Give me a sense of what now these bureaucratic rules to
require you now to sort of certify and document who everyone is
that's coming in. What kind of costs does that impose upon a
health care provider to try to not only fulfill your ethical
responsibility but now the Federal mandated responsibility to
try to stabilize?
Mr. Escoboza. Congressman, under Section 1011 of the
Medicare Modernization Act we've had some experience, not a
lot, because this law just went into effect last year. And so
we're just collecting data now. But it is an onersome process,
and you have many hospitals who are unwilling to even attempt
to get reimbursement because of that burdensome responsibility.
So we don't have good data yet, but maybe eventually we shall
get some. And I think the waiting for the next shoe to drop is
what impact the DRA, Deficit Reduction Act section will have on
hospital personnel, medical clinicians in the hospital setting
themselves.
We know that the State of California sometime later this
month will put forth its guidelines. But again, just in
general, I think to focus attention on patient care when people
present in the emergency department or in one of the wards is
what health professionals are all about. So whatever can be
done to find a way to streamline that paperwork, I know
technology has the potential for doing it in the future. But we
need a system of identification that doesn't take the health
care professional or other hospital staff away from taking care
of that patient when they present.
Mr. Becerra. And San Diego's hospitals are not able to
present a bill to the Federal Government for the costs of
administering this new administrative procedure for documenting
who's coming in and who's in the hospitals, does it.
Mr. Escoboza. Correct, sir. It's basically another unfunded
mandate.
Mr. Becerra. Dr. Anders, I don't know if you wanted to add
anything. You need your mic.
Dr. Anders. Those of us who have worked in community health
centers over the last few years know that we can no longer just
decide what kids have and what they need. We need to also
understand the funding sources. That sort of has been a whole
additional burden even not just focusing on immigrants. And I
think that there are a number of funding programs that we've
become skilled at trying to mobilize. The EPDST program we've
pushed to its max, but we need to hold on to, to support well
child checks. We've worked at the community level to do what we
can to raise funds for pharmaceutical needs of uninsured
children of whom the undocumented are a high amount. And yes,
it's complicated. It's challenging, and certainly the immigrant
issue makes it harder.
Mr. Becerra. Thank you.
I have one last question. Let me give you some quick
statistics. Since 1986 we've increased the budget of the Border
Patrol which is now--to ICE and Border Patrol under Homeland
Security. But since 1986 we've increased the budget of the
Border Patrol by a factor of 10. We have increased man hours
spent patrolling the border by a factor of eight since 1986.
And the cost to the American taxpayer since 1986 for this
activity has increased by about 500 percent. Yet since 1986
when we had the last immigration reform, we have continued to
see individuals coming to our country without the right to be
here.
All of this money, all of this enforcement, and yet we
still have unauthorized migration. Many of us believe that in
order to really cutoff the spigot you have to deal with the
magnet that's bringing folks in, and that's jobs; that there is
someone in this country willing to break the law and offer to
someone who is in this country without authorization an
opportunity to work. In many cases, that opportunity to work
comes under some pretty egregious circumstances with some
pretty exploitive terms for that worker who works in this
country.
But until--many of us believe that until we deal with the
fact that there are employers who are willing to take advantage
of people who don't have status in this country and are willing
to work at lower wages under harsher conditions that we will
not be able to stem the flow of undocumented immigrations. Many
of us believe we have to figure out a way to come up with an
identification document that can't be easily and fraudulently
manipulated. And many of us believe that if we had more
oversight over those types of work sites where we know
immigrants tend to concentrate themselves when it comes to
work, that we could do a better job.
I'm wondering if anyone has any final thought. And
certainly, Mr. Unzueta, I would ask you as well as the sheriff
to make a comment on this, because it's on the enforcement side
that I'm asking the question.
Mr. Kolender. Sir, I think that's half of it. I think that
nothing is going to really make any significant difference
until we can work stronger with Mexico to get some
responsibility on the part of their government toward the
people who live there.
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
Mr. Becerra. Good point.
Mr. Unzueta. Special Agent Unzueta.
Mr. Unzueta. I certainly agree with many of the comments
that you've made. And that's exactly why we have focused all of
our efforts, increased on work site enforcement and developing
programs like IMAGE where we're working with industry and
trying to do the right thing. It's also why we have asked for
the no-match information from Social Security Administration to
be able to target and to focus effectively on industries or on
particular companies that are the most egregious and the
highest level of violators.
Mr. Becerra. But if I could suggest to you that in the
process of doing the work site enforcement which is our right
to do as a sovereign Nation, that if you just deport the
immigrant or prosecute the immigrant who worked without
authorization, there's going to be another immigrant that will
follow the next day.
Until we really--and I don't think any of us can name more
than a few employers over the years who have actually been
prosecuted for violating the law and hiring unauthorized
immigrant workers. Until we actually go after the employer, the
price won't be paid. Because there are always any number of
immigrants, as we've just heard that will come through and try
to take the job that immigrant who just got deported lost. So I
think we really have to let the employer community know that
those who do this the right way, legitimately, we're going to
reward; but those who will do this unscrupulously, we'll
punish.
Mr. Unzueta. I would agree with you.
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
Mr. Unzueta. And that is clearly why we're focusing now on
criminal sanctions. And I hope within the next 30 to 45 days to
be able to report back to you on a very significant case,
actually, here in San Diego.
Mr. Becerra. OK.
Mr. Unzueta. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Tom Davis. Thank you. Let me just say to all of
our panelists, thank you very much. Let me just note that the
House bill, which I support, is also a bipartisan bill. That
this thing--these bills, basically the House and the Senate
come at it--at the whole issue from a different direction. But
I am convinced after being here yesterday and today, hearing
your testimony that we have to seal the borders first. If we
can't do that we're not going to have credibility----
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
Chairman Tom Davis [continuing]. In a lot of these other
areas.
We also recognize that we do need workers. And you've got
to find a way to get people from the underground economy into a
regulated economy where they can pay taxes and start paying
their own way. And our failure to get any bill means the status
quo continues. Although, I would note that the current status
quo, we're not enforcing the laws that are currently on the
books. And we need to do a better job of that as well.
[Audience cheers and applauds.]
Mr. Becerra. Some of the witnesses referred to outside
studies, and I would ask unanimous consent that they be given--
be able to put them into the record and they'd be part of the
record of this meeting again.
Chairman Tom Davis. This has been very helpful to us and
our committee as we write this up. It's true that each House
has passed a bill, but I'm not sure that we will get a
reconciliation of that in the conference in this Congress, so
this will go toward the record in the next Congress. And also
we're still in a conference. I'm not sure if Mr. Becerra or I
will be conferees on that, but I think this has been very
helpful in terms of building the record. And I appreciate all
that you all are doing as well.
Anything else, Mr. Becerra?
Mr. Becerra. No.
Chairman Tom Davis. If not, the hearing is adjourned. Thank
you.
Mr. Becerra. Thank you.
[Whereupon, the committee was adjourned.]
[Additional information submitted for the hearing record
follows:]
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