[Senate Hearing 108-617]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 108-617
COMBAT MEDICAL BADGE
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JULY 29, 2003
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
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COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman
BEN NIGHTHORSE CAMPBELL, Colorado BOB GRAHAM, Florida
LARRY E. CRAIG, Idaho JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, West
KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON, Texas Virginia
JIM BUNNING, Kentucky JAMES M. JEFFORDS, (I) Vermont
JOHN ENSIGN, Nevada DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii
LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina PATTY MURRAY, Washington
LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska ZELL MILLER, Georgia
E. BENJAMIN NELSON, Nebraska
William F. Tuerk, Staff Director and Chief Counsel
Bryant Hall, Minority Staff Director and Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
----------
July 29, 2003
SENATORS
Page
Specter, Hon. Arlen, U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania.............. 1
Murray, Hon. Patty, U.S. Senator from the State of Washington.... 14
WITNESSES
Novosel, Michael J., Chief Warrant Officer 4 (Ret.), M.O.H....... 1
Prepared statement........................................... 3
Travers, John M., Chief Warrant Officer 5 (Ret.)................. 5
Prepared statement........................................... 6
Castleberry, William Frederick ``Fred''.......................... 7
Prepared statement........................................... 9
Le Moyne, Lieutenant General John M., Deputy Chief of Staff, G1,
U.S. Army...................................................... 10
Prepared statement........................................... 11
COMBAT MEDICAL BADGE
----------
TUESDAY, JULY 29, 2003
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:10 p.m., in
room SR-418, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Arlen Specter
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
Present: Senators Specter, Rockefeller, and Murray.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ARLEN SPECTER,
U.S. SENATOR FROM PENNSYLVANIA
Chairman Specter. Gentlemen, the Committee on Veterans'
Affairs will now proceed. This afternoon, we will hear first on
the issue of whether combat medical badges should be awarded to
the brave men and women who participated in Dustoff missions in
Vietnam, and then we will move ahead to health-related bills.
At the outset, we are going to see a video presentation to put
our hearing into focus. So we shall proceed with that at this
time.
[Video played.]
Chairman Specter. Our first witness is going to be Mr.
Michael J. Novosel. Mr. Novosel flew his first combat mission
as a U.S. Army Air Corps B-29 pilot during World War II. When
hostilities broke out in Vietnam, Lieutenant Colonel Novosel
wanted to return to combat. They had too many of his rank, but
he was so anxious to join that he returned to the Army as a
warrant officer and began flying helicopters.
On October 2, 1969, he and his crew saved 29 soldiers
during a mission that totaled 11 hours in the air. In
recognition of his valor and devotion to duty, he was awarded
the Medal of Honor at age 46. He was the Army's oldest Medal of
Honor recipient in the Vietnam War.
Thank you very much for joining us, Colonel. The floor is
yours.
STATEMENT OF CHIEF WARRANT OFFICER 4 (RET.)
MICHAEL J. NOVOSEL, M.O.H.
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. Thank you, Senator. I
appreciate those kind words. You sort of took the sails out of
what I have to say now.
Good afternoon. My name is Michael J. Novosel. I am a
retired Air Force and Army aviator. I was a military aviator in
three wars and saw combat in two. Thirty-two years ago, the
parent body of this committee, the Congress of the United
States, bestowed upon me the honor that has defined so much of
my life, the Congressional Medal of Honor.
My wartime service ranges from the airfields of Tinian and
the Marianas, flying B-29s in the Second World War, to the rice
paddies of Vietnam, flying Hueys on medivac Dustoff missions.
During those many years, I witnessed the best and the worst of
humankind.
One cannot be exposed to years of war and combat without
being aware of the dedication, selflessness and bravery of
those who do the fighting and the dying. Without a doubt, some
of the most heroic people were the Dustoff men who rode with me
in my medivac helicopters in Vietnam. I was honored for my
efforts while commanding one of the air ambulances, but those
young men behind me, in back of me, caring for the wounded and
saving lives, were the real heroes.
To appreciate the sacrifices they made, one has to
understand the magnitude and the intensity of the task. These
medics, armed with stethoscopes, blood and IVs, rather than
guns and ammunition, managed to save hundreds of thousands of
lives. Their operating table was the litter, sometimes the
flight deck, awash in blood.
They kept men with traumatic amputations, sucking chest
wounds, bullet-riddled bodies alive; finding the collapsed vein
to give them the sorely needed transfusions. Mouth-to-mouth
resuscitation was administered, regardless of race or
nationality. The medics often knew their responsibilities;
giving life-saving medical care to the wounded until they were
delivered to hospitals for advanced treatment. They were under
intense physical and mental pressure.
When they flew, they put their lives on the line to save
others, and 55 of them did not return. Many were killed while
tending to the wounded, others died in crashes caused by
attempts to rescue under impossible weather conditions. They
are memorialized on the black marble wall by the Reflecting
Pool, along with 58,000 others.
What sets them apart, at least to those who served with and
knew them, is the singular sense of mission that they
displayed. Yet their efforts have not been recognized. They
have not received the honor that they so richly deserve.
For years, American soldiers who carried a gun into battle
were authorized to wear the Combat Infantry Badge. Eventually,
it was decided that those equally heroic men who went into
battle without a gun, but with a medical bag, would be
authorized to wear the Combat Medic's Badge.
However, the Medic's badge award criteria is written in
language which precludes Dustoff medics from being eligible for
the award. Overly strict interpretation of the regulation
produced this dichotomy. The regulation requires the Medic to
be ``assigned to an infantry unit.'' Had the regulation read
``assigned or supporting an infantry unit,'' that problem may
have been overcome. Dustoff regularly worked with infantry
units, but its personnel were assigned to aviation units, not
infantry units.
The regulation covering the award of the CMB was written at
a time when Dustoff did not exist. Those who administer the
regulation have not adjusted their interpretation of that
regulation to coincide with the realities of the changing
nature of war. Dustoff is a product of that change. The Dustoff
personnel pioneered and developed the concept of aeromedical
evacuation.
In Vietnam, they regularly went into the thick of battle to
rescue wounded soldiers. Dustoff crews did this, knowing they
would be subjected to enemy fire, yet the medic and the crew
chief left the helicopter to get the wounded. It was not
uncommon to see bullets hitting the rice paddies around them
while the medic and the crew chief retrieved the wounded, but
they never wavered.
I witnessed the heroism of medics and crew chief as they
performed their duties. I cannot recall a single instance of a
Dustoff crewman seeking refuge from enemy fire, shirking his
duty or ignoring the plight of their brothers. I do recall,
however, a continued commitment to the mission: easing the pain
of the wounded, relieving them of the trauma of battle and
rescuing people and saving lives.
My Dustoff crew--when I flew that mission on October 2,
1969--were expecting no reward, but the Army and the Congress
presented me with the Medal of Honor. I am aware that the Army
writes regulations; that Congress does not. Therefore, I ask
this committee and this Congress to honor the Dustoff Medics
and direct the Department of Army to change this regulation and
make those people eligible for the Combat Medics Badge. No
group of individuals can be more worthy of that badge.
It would be a beautiful gesture if the Department of Army
were to posthumously award the first Combat Medic Badges to
those 55 brave men who are memorialized on the wall and who
lost their lives saving others.
I thank you for your time and attention.
[The prepared statement of Chief Warrant Officer Novosel
follows:]
Prepared Statement of Chief Warrant Officer 4 (Ret.)
Michael J. Novosel, M.O.H.
Good afternoon Senator Specter, members of the Committee and
Honored Guests:
My name is Michael J. Novosel; I am a retired Air Force and Army
Aviator. I was a military aviator in three wars and saw combat in two.
Thirty-two years ago the parent body of this Committee, the Congress of
the United States, bestowed upon me the honor that has defined so much
of my life; the Congressional Medal of Honor.
My war time service ranges from the airfields of Tinian and the
Marianas, flying B-29s in the Second World War to the rice paddies of
Vietnam, flying Hueys on Medivac (Dustoff) missions. During those many
years I witnessed the best and the worst of human kind.
One cannot be exposed to years of war and combat without being
aware of the dedication, selflessness and bravery of those who do the
fighting and dying. Without a doubt, some of the most heroic people
were the Dustoff Crewmen and Medics who rode with me in my Medivac
helicopters in Vietnam. I was honored for my efforts while commanding
of the air ambulances, but those young men behind me, caring for the
wounded, and saving lives, were the real heroes.
To appreciate the sacrifices they made, one has to understand the
magnitude and intensity of the task. These Medics, armed with
stethoscopes, blood and IV's rather than guns and ammunition, managed
to save hundreds of thousands of lives. Their operating table was the
litter; sometimes the flight deck awash in blood. They kept men with
traumatic amputations, sucking chest wounds, bullet riddled bodies
alive; finding the collapsed vein to give them the sorely needed
transfusions. Mouth to mouth resuscitation was often administered
regardless of race or nationality. They knew their responsibilities;
giving life saving medical treatment to the men in their care until
they were delivered to hospitals for more advanced treatment. They were
under intense physical and mental pressure.
When they flew they put their lives on the line to save others, and
fifty-one of them did not return. Many were killed while tending to the
wounded; others died in crashes caused by attempts at rescue under
impossible weather conditions. They are memorialized on the black
marble wall down by the Reflecting Pool, along with 58,000 others.
But what sets them apart, at least to those who served with and
knew them, is the singular sense of mission that they displayed. Yet
their efforts have not been recognized; they have not received the
honor they so richly deserve.
For years American soldiers who carried a gun into battle were
authorized to wear the Combat Infantryman's Badge. Eventually it was
decided that those equally heroic men who went into battle without a
gun, but with a medical bag, would be authorized to wear the Combat
Medic's Badge.
However, the Medic's badge award criteria is written in language,
which precludes Dustoff medics from being eligible for the award.
Overly strict interpretation of the regulation produces this dichotomy.
The regulation requires the Medic to be ``assigned to an infantry''
unit. Had the regulation read, ``assigned to or supporting an
infantry'' unit there would be no problem with the award of the CMB.
Dustoff regularly works with infantry units, but its personnel are
assigned to aviation units, not infantry units.
The regulation covering the award of the CMB was written at a time
when Dustoff did not exist. Those who administer the regulation have
not adjusted their interpretation of it to coincide with the realities
of the changing nature of war. Dustoff is a product of that change. Its
personnel pioneered and developed the concept of aeromedical
evacuation. In Vietnam they regularly went into the thick of battle to
rescue wounded soldiers. Dustoff crews did this, knowing they would be
subjected to enemy fire, yet the medic jumped off the helicopter, got
to the wounded and proceeded to load the casualties. It was not
uncommon to see bullets hitting the rice paddies while the medic tended
to the wounded, but he did not waver.
I witnessed the heroism of my medics as they performed their
duties. I cannot recall a single instance of a Dustoff medic seeking
refuge from enemy fire, shirking his duty or ignoring the plight of his
brothers. I do recall, however, a continued commitment to the mission;
easing the pain of the wounded, relieving them of the trauma of battle,
rescuing people and saving lives.
My Dustoff crew and I flew the mission of 2 October 1969 expecting
no reward, but the Army and the Congress presented me with the Medal of
Honor. I am aware that the Army writes the regulations; that Congress
does not. Therefore, I ask this Committee and this Congress to honor
the Dustoff Medics and direct the Department of the Army to change that
regulation, and make them eligible for the CMB. No group of individuals
can be more worthy of that badge. I further ask that the Army expedite
the matter and plan to present the awards by November 11--Veterans Day.
It would be a magnanimous gesture for the Department of Army
representative to posthumously award the first Combat Medic Badges to
those 51 brave men who are memorialized on the Wall, and lost their
lives saving others.
I thank you for your time and attention. I will make myself
available to any questions the Committee might have for me.
Chairman Specter. Thank you very much, Colonel. May the
record reflect that Michael J. Novosel is the author of a book,
``Dustoff,'' that outlines the gallant service of combat medics
in Vietnam.
Our next witness is Mr. John M. Travers. He enlisted in the
Army in 1969, graduated from flight school the following year,
and served in the Republic of Vietnam in the 82nd Medical Unit.
Mr. Travers separated from active duty in 1972. He was born in
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, attended schools there and graduated
from Penn State in 1980, Summa Cum Laude, with a degree in
education. In his earlier days, he had been an All Star--All
State--basketball player.
Welcome, Mr. Travers. Thank you for joining us, and we have
limited the time to 3 minutes on opening statements.
STATEMENT OF CHIEF WARRANT OFFICER 5 (RET.)
JOHN M. TRAVERS
Chief Warrant Officer Travers. Thank you, Senator.
Good afternoon, and to other members of the committee.
It is an honor to be here before you today, and I speak on
behalf of not only those who served in Dustoff, but the
literally hundreds of thousands of infantry soldiers who owe
their lives to the Dustoff crews. It is an honor to lead such a
righteous fight with the support and assistance of some very
sincere people, and many of them are here today, and I thank
them for their efforts.
I had the very great privilege to serve as a Dustoff pilot
during the Vietnam War, with the bravest group of men that I
have ever known. Typical of them was Kevin Donaughue, who is in
this room today, a medic who I personally watched jump from my
aircraft, under extremely intense fire, and run through a mine
field to retrieve a wounded soldier and bring him back to our
aircraft, all the while AK-47 rounds were exploding around him.
That picture still plays in my mind over 30 years later and
will never diminish.
No rational man would have done what Kevin did that day. I
witnessed what love of your fellow soldier can inspire a man to
do. You must understand, though, that this was not a singular
occurrence, but rather a daily ritual that gained the
admiration and love of those on the ground for the call sign
``Dustoff.''
It was those experiences that drove me to start this
campaign to right an injustice that has gone on too long. I
really believe, as God is my judge, that if the authors of the
Combat Medic Regulation had known that in the future there
would be wars with nonlinear battlefields, where helicopters
would become the means to rescue wounded soldiers from the
battlefield, they would have put Dustoff medics at the top of
the list of defined recipients.
I am consistently frustrated by the irony that our Army is
allowed a 58-year-old regulation to remain intact, when all of
its battle doctrine has been updated to reflect the modern
waging of war. I suggest that when one reduces this fight to
that, its simplest level, it does not make any sense.
Those of us who served our country as Dustoff crew members
in Vietnam did so to the best of our ability. When we came home
to an unaccepting America, there were no parades and few words
of appreciation, but we learned to accept that because we had
made a difference to our fellow soldiers, and that was the
ultimate difference, the difference between life and death.
We went on with our lives and asked for very little, if
anything, and the experience has made us all a close-knit
family. Ironically, as the years have passed, we have seen what
only can be described as a slap in the face to the Dustoff,
from an Army that we served so loyally.
After Desert Storm, the chief of staff of the Army waived
the requirement for the Combat Medic Badge and allowed it to be
awarded to medics in armor and ground cavalry units. Now, let
me be perfectly clear. I am glad those medics got that award,
and they earned that award, but what I cannot understand is why
the Army would not take a look at the Dustoff medics of
Vietnam, who did their duty for a year, day in, day out, under
fire, and to be considered not qualified. The numbers speak for
themselves. In Vietnam, Dustoff flew thousands and thousands of
missions and saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Is it any
wonder that so many Vietnam veterans feel abandoned and
forgotten by the very institutions they pledged to defend with
their lives?
On a black piece of granite just a few short blocks from
here appear the names of 55 of our brother Dustoff medics and
over 200 Dustoff crew members, pilots and crew chiefs. Perhaps
those within the Army who oppose this award should take a walk
some lunch hour along that wall and tell me that Dustoff medics
did not earn the Combat Medic Badge. I would be happy to meet
them there face-to-face and discuss and, if necessary, debate
that notion. I suspect that those within the Army that would
oppose this award have never been to that wall, which is one of
the reasons why we brought a piece of it here today to you,
Senator, in the form of those etchings of the 55 names.
We are here before you today, to ask no favors or anything
for ourselves, but we have earned the right to demand the Army
do what is morally correct. Every day my medics grow older.
Indeed, some have already died unrecognized and unrewarded. One
of my best friends is now dying in Indianapolis of cancer. I
humbly, respectfully and firmly beg this committee to do
whatever has to be done to correct this, since the Army seems
unable to itself.
Thank you for your time and patience.
[The prepared statement of Chief Warrant Officer Travers
follows:]
Prepared Statement of Chief Warrant Officer 5 (Ret.) John M. Travers
Good afternoon Senator Specter and members of the committee.
It is an honor to come before you today to speak on behalf of not
only all those who served in Dustoff, but also the literally hundreds
of thousands of men who are alive today because of Dustoff medics. It
is also an honor to lead such a righteous fight with the support and
assistance of some of the most sincere people a person can ever know:
the people who are here with us today--and I take this brief moment to
thank them publicly, on behalf of every Dustoff medic that ever was.
Thank you very much, all of you.
I had the very great privilege to serve as a Dustoff pilot during
the Vietnam War with the bravest group of men I have ever known.
Typical of them was Kevin Donaughue, a medic who I personally watched
jump from my aircraft, under extremely intense fire, and run through a
mine field to retrieve a wounded solider and bring him back to our
aircraft, all while AK 47 rounds exploded around him. That picture
still plays in my mind over 30 years later, and will never diminish. No
rational man would have done what Kevin did that day; I witnessed what
love of your fellow solider can inspire a man to do. You must
understand this was not a singular occurrence, but rather a daily
ritual that gained the admiration and love of those on the ground for
the call sign ``Dustoff.''
It was those experiences that drove me to start this campaign to
right an injustice that has gone on too long. I believe as God is my
judge that if the authors of the Combat Medic Regulation had known that
in the future there would be wars with non-linear battle lines, where
helicopters would become the means to rescue wounded soldiers from the
battle field, they would have put Dustoff medics at the top of the list
of defined recipients. I am constantly frustrated by the irony of our
Army allowing a 58-year-old regulation to remain intact when all of its
battle doctrine has been updated to reflect the modern waging of war. I
suggest that when one reduces this fight to that--its simplest level--
it just doesn't make any sense, does it?
Those of us who served our country as Dustoff crewmembers in
Vietnam did so to the best of our ability. When we came home to an
unaccepting America, there were no parades and few words of
appreciation, but we learned to accept that because we knew we had made
a difference to our fellow soldiers, and that it was the ultimate
difference, the difference between life and death. We went on with our
lives and asked for very little, if anything. And the experience made
us a very close-knit family.
Ironically, as the years have passed we have seen what can only be
described as a slap in the face by the Army we served so loyally. After
the Desert Storm War the Chief of Staff of the Army waived the
requirement for the combat medic badge and awarded it to medics in
armor and ground cavalry units; in fact, over 3000 CMB's were awarded
for a 100-hour war. Now let me be perfectly clear on this: I am glad
the medics of Desert Storm received these awards, but cannot help but
question why the Dustoff medics of Vietnam--who did their duty for a
year, day in and day out, under fire--are not qualified? The numbers
speak for themselves, and the Gulf War pales by comparison: in Vietnam
Dustoff flew thousands and thousands of missions, and saved hundreds of
thousands lives. Is it any wonder so many Vietnam vets feel abandoned
and forgotten by the very institutions they pledged to defend with
their lives?
On a black piece of granite just a few short blocks from here
appear the names of 55 of our brother Dustoff medics and over 200
Dustoff crew members, pilots and crew chiefs included. Perhaps those
within the Army who oppose this award should take a walk some lunch
hour along that WALL and then tell me Dustoff medics did not earn the
Combat Medic Badge; I would be happy to meet them there--face to face--
to discuss and, if necessary, debate that notion. I suspect those who
oppose this award have never been to that Wall, which is one of the
reasons we brought it here today, in the form of the etchings of those
55 names.
We who are before you today ask no favors, nor anything for
ourselves. But we have earned the right to demand the Army do what is
morally correct. Every day my medics grow older; indeed, some have
already died unrecognized and unrewarded by a bureaucracy that has all
the inertia of the coffins they have been buried in. I humbly,
respectfully and fervently beg this Committee to do whatever has to be
done to correct this, since the Army seems unable to itself. Thank you
for your time and patience.
Chairman Specter. Thank you, Mr. Travers.
Our next witness is Mr. William Fredrick Castleberry. Mr.
Castleberry joined the Army at age 17, became a drill sergeant,
and then was sent to Vietnam. On his 21st birthday, he was
critically wounded in action by a rocket-propelled grenade. He
lost his right arm below the elbow and his left leg above the
knee. He also lost the use of his left hand, and partially lost
the use of his right hand. He was rescued on the battlefield by
a Dustoff crew. The members of which were also wounded while
rescuing him.
Thank you for joining us, Mr. Castleberry. We look forward
to your testimony.
STATEMENT OF WILLIAM FREDRICK ``FRED'' CASTLEBERRY
Mr. Castleberry. Good afternoon, Senator Specter, Senator
Murray.
Please know that I am extremely honored to be here. In
1965, while stationed at Fort Lee, Virginia, I visited our
Nation's Capitol. At that time, I never dreamed I would someday
visit here on Capitol Hill. However, once I heard the details
about this hearing, I knew I had to be here. I thank you for
the privilege to testify before a committee as important as
this one.
The Fred Castleberry that went to Vietnam was much
different than the one that came home. The injuries that my
body suffered are plain to see. I lost my right arm, my left
leg; I lost the partial use of my left--my other arm and my
other leg. However, I am not here to talk about Fred
Castleberry any more than I have to. What I am here to talk
about is the fact that I am here at all and how I got out of
that bloody jungle on the day I turned 21.
Prior to going to Vietnam, I was a drill sergeant. I tried
to prepare the recruits for what they would face in war. But
like anyone else who has never been in combat, I truly did not
have any clue. There is no manual that can prepare you for the
paralyzing fear that grips you when bullets go whizzing by your
head. There is no veteran's account that can accurately
describe what it is like to watch the life drain from someone
who just moments before was so young and full of life.
In combat, everywhere you look, there is death and
destruction. Unfortunately, it was my job to be part of that
strange world. One day during a firefight, I went into a tunnel
after an enemy soldier. When I came out of the tunnel, I
noticed this helicopter coming in. For some reason, I knelt
down on the ground and watched this Dustoff crew come in and
pick up the wounded and fly off. I remember wondering, why
bother?
Like I said, I was wounded on my 21st birthday, hit by a
rocket-propelled grenade that left pieces of me literally all
over the battlefield. I fully accepted the fact that my life
was going to end that predawn morning. As I was telling my
loved ones goodbye, the ground medics told me I was being
medivaced. I told them they were crazy, the site was too hot.
For the rest of my life, I will never forget the whopping sound
of the Huey's blades and the sight of the spotlight clearing
the tree line. As the Huey got closer, I could see sparks
flying everywhere, as countless small arms rounds hit the
helicopter. I remember thinking; there is no way any of these
guys are going to make it. I honestly thought the helicopter
would be shot down, and we would all die.
But somehow, through all of the gunfire, they got in. I
remember seeing these beautiful angels pick me up and take me
aboard. I remember the pinging of the bullets ripping through
the skin of the Huey and hearing the crew excitedly, yet
calmly, talking to one another. Then I saw this face above me
saying, ``Buddy, stay with me. Hey, Buddy, you are going to be
all right.'' Over and over again I would drift in and out of
consciousness, and all I can recall is this bloody face telling
me I was going to make it.
When I came to, this nurse asked me if I would like
company. Something happened that will live with me for the rest
of my life. The entire Dustoff crew was in the hospital with
me. The guys that saved my life, the young boys that rescued me
themselves had been wounded. The blood on the air medic's face
was not mine; it was his. A bullet had gone through his cheek,
and rather than tend to his own wounds, he kept me alive.
There are no words to tell you how I feel about Dustoff.
You can hear and read all of the stories you want, but nothing
replaces what I have gone through. These young fellows went
into the path of all of those bullets to save my life, someone
they did not even know. I cannot think of one reason why a
Dustoff crew would put their lives on the line time and time
again, other than what one of the crew members told me when I
asked. He said, ``That is our job.'' We, in the infantry, when
we come under fire, we can hug the ground a little closer. A
Dustoff crew, when they come under fire, has nothing but air to
hug. You want to know what heroes look like, look at a Dustoff
crew.
I visited the Wall today for the first time. The only
reason my name is not on that sacred site is a Dustoff crew
risked all their lives to save mine. Think of the thousands of
lives that have been saved over the years because Dustoff crews
were ``doing their job.''
I will probably never know the names of the Dustoff crew
that saved my life, but I can honor them today by joining my
voice with Mike Novosel and John Travers and ask this committee
to make sure the Dustoff crews are awarded the Combat Medic
Badge.
Thank you for your time.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Castleberry follows:]
Prepared Statement of William Frederick ``Fred'' Castleberry
Good afternoon Senator Specter and all the members of the
Committee:
Please know that I am extremely honored to be here. In 1965, while
stationed at Ft. Lee, VA, I visited our Nation's Capitol. At that time,
I never dreamed I would some day visit here on Capitol Hill. However,
once I heard the details about this hearing, I knew I had to be here. I
thank you for the privilege to testify before a committee as important
as this one.
The Fred Castleberry that went to Vietnam was much different from
the one that came home. The injuries that my body suffered are plain to
see. I lost my right arm and left leg and the partial use of my other
arm and leg.
However, I'm not here to talk about Fred Castleberry any more than
I have to; what I am here to talk about is the fact that I am here at
all, and how I got out of a very bloody jungle on the day I turned 21.
Prior to going to Vietnam I was a Drill Sergeant. I tried to
prepare the recruits for what they would face in war. But like anyone
else who has never been in combat, I truly did not have a clue. There
is no manual that can prepare you for the paralyzing fear that grips
you when bullets go whizzing by your head. There is no veteran's
account that can accurately describe what it's like to watch the life
drain from someone who just moments before was so young and full of
life.
In combat, everywhere you look there is death and destruction.
Unfortunately it was my job to be part of that strange world. One day
during a firefight I went into a tunnel after an enemy solider. When I
came out of the tunnel, I noticed this helicopter coming in. For some
reason I knelt on the ground and watched this Dustoff crew come in and
pick up the wounded and fly off. I remember thinking, why bother.
Like I said, I was wounded on my 21st birthday, hit by a rocket-
propelled grenade that left pieces of me--literally--all over the
battle field. I fully accepted the fact that my life was going to end
that predawn morning. As I was telling my loved ones goodbye, the
ground medics told me I was being medivaced. I told them that they were
crazy, the site was too hot. For the rest of my life I will never
forget the whopping sound of the Huey's blades and the sight of that
spotlight clearing the tree line. As the Huey got closer I could see
sparks flying everywhere as countless small arms rounds hit the
helicopter. I remember thinking; there is no way any of those guys will
make it. I honestly thought the helicopter would be shot down and we
would all die.
But somehow, through all the gun fire, they got in. I remember
seeing these beautiful angels pick me up and take me aboard. I remember
the pinging of bullets ripping through the skin of the Huey and hearing
the crew excitedly, yet calming, talking to one another and then I saw
this face above me. This face had blood all over it and it was saying
to me, ``Buddy, stay with me. Hey Buddy, you're going to be all
right.'' Over and over again I would drift in and out of consciousness
and all I can recall is this bloody face telling me I was going to make
it.
When I came to a nurse asked me if I felt like company. Something
happened that will live with me the rest of my life, the Dustoff crew
was in the hospital with me. The guys that saved my life, the young
boys that rescued me, themselves had been wounded. The blood on the air
medic's face was not mine. It was his. A bullet had gone through his
cheek, but rather than tend to his own wounds, he kept me alive.
There are no words to tell you how I feel about Dustoff. You can
hear and read all the stories you want, but nothing replaces having
gone through what I did. These young fellows went into the path of all
those bullets to save my life, someone they didn't even know. I cannot
think of one reason why a Dustoff crew would put their lives on the
line time and time again, other than what one of the crew members told
me when I asked. ``That's our job.'' We in the Infantry, when we come
under fire we can hug the ground a little closer. A Dustoff crew when
they come under fire has nothing but air to hug. You want to know what
heroes look like, look at a Dustoff crew.
I visited the Wall today for the first time. The only reason my
name is not on that sacred site is a Dustoff crew risked all their
lives to save mine. Think of the thousands of lives that have been
saved over the years because Dustoff crews were, ``Doing their job.'' I
will probably never know the names of the Dustoff crew that saved my
life, but I can honor them today by joining my voice with Mike Novosel
and John Travers, and ask this Committee to make sure the Dustoff crews
are awarded the Combat Medic Badge. Thank you for your time.
Chairman Specter. Thank you very much, Mr. Castleberry.
Our final witness on this panel is Lieutenant General John
Le Moyne, who has an extraordinary record. He served in
Vietnam, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Operation Desert Storm,
Operation Desert Shield, and is now the Army's deputy chief of
staff. He rose in the ranks from a buck private and a buck
sergeant to be the deputy chief of staff of the Army, a
remarkable accomplishment.
I think you have your toughest assignment today, General Le
Moyne, explaining why Dustoff personnel ought not to be
entitled to a Combat Medical Badge, considering that they were
in combat and the risks they undertook.
STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT GENERAL JOHN M. Le MOYNE, DEPUTY CHIEF
OF STAFF, G1, U.S. ARMY
General Le Moyne. Mr. Chairman and Senator Murray, thank
you for this opportunity to appear before your committee. Sir,
my emotions are with you, but I am a professional soldier, and
I will try to state the factual basis until the end of my
comments to you.
As you said, I am a veteran of Vietnam and two other wars,
and I want to express my deepest gratitude to these men to my
right who served so nobly. They did not go North, and they did
not hide in school.
The Army knows the challenges of the Vietnam conflict and
what it means to these brave soldiers to be recognized. We
began sending troops to Vietnam in the 1950's, and almost three
million American service members were sent to fight over that
time period. Over 80 percent of all combat deaths in Vietnam
were infantrymen. We recognize and know the combat medics could
be counted on to save lives under the most arduous conditions,
often at the cost of losing their own life.
In March of 1945, the War Department established what is
now known as the Combat Medical Badge. The original intent of
awarding this prestigious badge, and our current policy, was
that it could be awarded to all persons of the Medical
Department assigned or attached to a medical unit with infantry
units, and its evolution stemmed from the requirement to
recognize combat medics who shared the same hazards and
hardships of ground combat on a day-to-day basis with infantry
soldiers.
The Combat Medical Badge was created as a companion badge
to the Combat Infantry Badge, with criteria for its award
intended to parallel that of the Combat Infantry Badge. It was
designated to provide recognition to the field medic who
accompanies infantrymen into battle, shares with him the day-
to-day experiences and the hardships unique to combat duty in
the field under combat conditions.
The sole criteria that qualify medical personnel for award
of the CMB is to be assigned or attached to a ground combat
unit engaged in active combat. Medical personnel, other than
those medics organic to these units, may qualify only if they
serve as medical personnel accompanying those units.
As recently as 1987, the Army created a completed a review
of all of the criteria for award of the CMB to aeromedical
crews. The results of this review confirmed that the criteria
should stand as originally intended; to recognize those aidmen
who share the same hazards, hardships, and deprivations of
ground combat on a daily basis with combat soldiers. This is
not a bureaucracy, sir. This is maintaining the original intent
of the CMB standards.
In February of 2003, the Army confirmed their 1987
decision, that the criteria should remain unchanged. The
awarding of this badge, in and of itself to those medics who
serve with and are in the line of fire with infantrymen, does
not take away from the outstanding contributions of aeromedical
crews performing medical recovery missions.
These veterans here today are examples of the esteem and
respect that we have for medical and aerovac personnel. That is
exemplified by their aviation wings, their air medals and
Distinguished Flying Crosses. The Army has a long history of
recognizing its heroes by presenting awards and decorations.
During the Vietnam conflict, over two million combat awards
were presented for service, for achievement and for heroism.
As our combat soldiers have been recognized in the past, we
will continue to uphold the same traditions of awarding and
recognizing our finest.
Sir, thank you again for the opportunity to appear before
you today, and I am available for questions.
[The prepared statement of General Le Moyne follows:]
Prepared Statement of Lieutenant General John M. Le Moyne,
Deputy Chief of Staff, G1, U.S. Army
Mr. Chairman and distinguished members of the Committee, on behalf
of the outstanding soldiers of the United States Army past and present,
thank you for this opportunity to appear before this committee today to
give you an overview of The Army's procedure awarding the Combat
Medical Badge. As a Vietnam Veteran and a soldier now serving during
another war, I want to express my deepest gratitude for those men and
women who served so nobly during the Vietnam Conflict. I want to thank
you, as a committee, for keeping the needs and concerns of not just
these veterans but all veterans at the forefront of America's
consciousness. Most importantly, I want to express my deep gratitude
for your Congressional support and assistance, which has assured
continuing major successes and achievements for all Veterans.
In the 1950's, the United States began to send troops to Vietnam,
during the following 25-year period, the ensuing war would evoke some
of the strongest emotions in United States history. Almost 3 million
men and women were sent thousands of miles to fight for what we
continue to fight for today, freedom. In total it is estimated that
over 2.5 million people on both sides lost their lives. In this war, as
in wars before and after the combat medic served along side his
infantry counterparts. The Army has a long history of recognizing its
heroes by presenting awards and decorations. Today, I would like to
specifically discuss with you the Army's Combat Medical Badge (CMB),
the original intent and our current policy of awarding this prestigious
badge not just to soldiers, but eligible sailors, airmen and marines.
HISTORY
Originally established as the Medical Badge, the Combat Medical
Badge was created by the War Department on 1 March 1945. It could be
awarded to officers, warrant officers, and enlisted men of the Medical
Department assigned or attached to the medical detachment of infantry
regiments, and infantry battalions. Its evolution stemmed from a
requirement to recognize medical aidmen who shared the same hazards and
hardships of ground combat on a daily basis with the infantry soldier.
Though established almost a year and a half after the Combat
Infantryman's Badge CIB, it could be awarded retroactively to December
7, 1941 to fully qualified personnel.
Like the CIB, the Regimental Commander was the lowest level at
which the CMB could be approved and it also carried with it a separate
provision for enlisted badge holders to receive a $10 per month pay
stipend. Additionally, the CMB could be awarded to Medical Department
personnel assigned or attached to Infantry units of Allied Forces when
the duties performed were identical with those performed by medical
personnel assigned or attached to U.S. Forces. The CMB could also be
awarded to U.S. Navy and U.S. Air Force medical personnel provided they
met all the requirements of Army medics.
Effective 20 December 1989, special forces personnel possessing
Military Occupational Specialty 18D (Special Operations Medical
Sergeant) became qualified to receive the CMB provided they were
otherwise qualified. Also, in 1991, the Chief of Staff, Army authorized
a limited expansion of CMB eligibility to include medical personnel
assigned or attached to armor and ground cavalry units provided they
met all other qualifying criteria. This expansion was retroactive to 17
January 1991 to cover the period of Operation DESERT STORM.
INTENT
The CMB was created as a ``companion'' badge to the CIB with
criteria for its award intended to parallel that of the CIB. It was
designed to provide recognition to the field medic who accompanies the
infantryman into battle and shares with him the experiences unique to
the infantry in combat. There was never any intention to award the CMB
to all medical personnel who serve in a combat zone or imminent danger
area, that is, a division-level medical company supporting a maneuver
brigade.
As with the CIB, the infantry unit to which the medical personnel
are assigned or attached must engage the enemy in active ground combat.
Since inception, the intent of the Department of the Army regarding
this requirement has been that medical personnel must be personally
present and under fire in order to be eligible for the awarding of the
badge. So stringent was this requirement during the Vietnam era that
recommending officials were required to document the place (in six
digit coordinates), time, type, and intensity of fire to which the
proposed recipient was exposed. This fact naturally precludes the
awarding of the badge to those medical personnel who accompany infantry
units into a potential engagement area but do not come under enemy
fire.
Over the years, there has been some confusion concerning the phrase
``. . . in direct support of an infantry unit . . .'' The CMB is
intended for, and awarded to, those medical personnel who accompany the
infantryman into combat. The Army has never approved of deviations from
this purpose and its restrictive criteria. During the World War II era,
medical support for infantry units in combat was provided by the
medical detachments and companies of battalions and regiments. These
medical personnel and units were termed direct support. This concept
lasted until Vietnam. Today, medical personnel are assigned as organic
personnel to infantry companies and are regarded as participants as
opposed to being categorized as those providing direct medical support.
For example medical personnel serving in division-level medical
companies, ground ambulance and medical clearing companies, mobile-Army
surgical hospital (MASH), combat-support hospital (CSH), and field
hospitals, and aeromedical evacuation units are not eligible for the
CMB. The sole criteria which qualifies medical personnel for award of
the CMB is to be assigned or attached to an infantry unit engaged in
active ground combat. Medical personnel other than those medics organic
to infantry units may qualify only if they serve as medical personnel
accompanying infantrymen. Conceivably, this could occur if an infantry
unit lost all its medics and as a temporary or permanent measure,
medical personnel were attached to an infantry unit, but remained
assigned to a hospital or other non-infantry unit.
SPECIFIC ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS
The following medical personnel, assigned or attached by
appropriate orders to an infantry unit of brigade, regimental, or
smaller size, or to a medical unit of company or smaller size, organic
to an infantry unit of brigade or smaller size, during any period the
infantry unit is engaged in actual ground combat, are eligible for
award of the CMB, provided they are personally present and under fire
during such ground combat:
(a) Subsequent to December 6, 1941.--Army Medical Department
(colonels and below), the Navy Medical Department (captains and below),
the Air Force Medical Service (colonels and below), assigned or
attached to the Army, who have satisfactorily performed medical duties
are eligible for the CIB.
(b) Subsequent to December 19, 1989.--Special Forces personnel
possessing military occupational specialty 18D (Special Operations
Medical Sergeant) who satisfactorily performed medical duties while
assigned or attached to a special forces unit during any period the
unit is engaged in actual ground combat, provided they are personally
present and under fire. Retroactive awards are not authorized.
(c) Subsequent to January 16, 1991.--Personnel assigned or attached
to armor and ground cavalry units of brigade or smaller size, who
satisfactorily perform medical duties while the unit is engaged in
actual ground combat, provided they are personally present and under
fire, were awarded the badge. Retroactive awards are not authorized.
(d) Awards will not be made to general or flag officers.
Presently, a separate award of the CMB has been authorized for
qualified soldiers who served in World War II, the Korean War and the
Vietnam conflict. However, service in the Republic of Vietnam conflict
combined with qualifying service in Laos, the Dominican Republic, Korea
on the DMZ, Grenada, Panama and the Persian Gulf War is recognized by
one award only regardless of whether a soldier has served one or
multiple tours in any of these areas.
REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM--SPECIAL PROVISIONS
Subsequent to March 1, 1961, a soldier must have been assigned to a
Vietnamese unit engaged in actual ground combat or as a member of a US
Army infantry unit of brigade or smaller size, including Special Forces
Detachments, serving with a Republic of Vietnam unit engaged in actual
ground combat. The Republic of Vietnam unit must have been of
regimental size or smaller and either an infantry, ranger, infantry-
type unit of the civil guard, infantry-type unit of the self-defense
corps, or of the irregular forces. The soldier must have been
personally present and under hostile fire while assigned as specified.
LAOS
In order for a soldier to receive the CMB for service in Laos, he
must have been assigned as a member of a White Star Mobile Training
team while the team was attached to or working with a unit of
regimental (group mobile) or smaller size of Forces Armee du Royaume
(FAR), or with irregular-type forces of regimental or smaller size.
Also, the soldier could have been a member of MAAG, Laos assigned as an
advisor to a region or zone of FAR, or while serving with irregular
type forces of regimental or smaller size. Most importantly, the
soldier must have been under hostile fire while assigned to those
units.
In 1987, the Office of the Surgeon General of the Army (OTSG), in
concert with the Army's Military Awards Branch, completed a review of
the criteria for award of the CMB to aeromedical pilots. The results of
the review confirmed that the criteria should stand as originally
intended, to recognize those aidmen who share the same hazards and
hardships of ground combat on a daily basis with the infantry soldiers.
In February 2003, the OTSG confirmed their 1987 decision, that the
criteria should remain unchanged.
Medical units, other than infantry who are required to perform
temporary, duties similar to some infantry duties are not eligible for
the CMB. Other soldiers who fight similar to infantry soldiers are
likewise ineligible for Combat Infantryman Badge (CIB). The sole
criteria that qualifies medical personnel for award of the CMB is to be
assigned or attached to an infantry unit engaged in active ground
combat.
CONCLUSION
The objective of the Department of the Army Military Awards Program
is to provide tangible recognition for acts of valor, exceptional
service or achievement, special skills or qualifications and acts of
heroism not involving actual combat. During the Vietnam conflict more
than 2.8 million combat awards were given and 16,083 CMB's were
awarded. As our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines have fought and
been recognized in the past, we will continue to uphold the same
traditions of awarding and recognizing our finest. We are hopeful that
your support and assistance will continue as we demonstrate our
commitment to taking care of soldiers past and present.
Once again thank you for the opportunity to appear before you
today.
Chairman Specter. General Le Moyne, the panel will question
you in 3-minute rounds.
General Le Moyne, what is the rational basis for saying
that medical personnel accompanying ground combat units will be
eligible for the Combat Medical Badge, but Dustoff crews who
undertake precisely the same risks, in precisely the same way,
will not be similarly eligible?
General Le Moyne. Sir, it is not precisely the same risk
nor precisely the same way. That ground medic assigned to that
infantry unit is there every day for a year, shivering,
freezing, hungry and scared, 24 hours a day.
Chairman Specter. But the Dustoff troops may be there for
the same amount of time, doing the same shivering, undertaking
the same risks.
General Le Moyne. Sir, their risk is not on the same
extended time period in the same combat environment, the same
unknowns. They do come into a hot LZ upon occasion, and all of
us recognize the value they bring for saving our lives, but
they are not there day-to-day.
Chairman Specter. In the light of the testimony of Mr.
Castleberry, outlining how these men saved his life and risked
their own, what more can be asked of military personnel to
qualify for the Combat Medical Badge?
I think you have got a distinction here without a
difference, General.
General Le Moyne. Sir, I disagree. Any of these medics
could have served with us in the field for an extended period
of time for 30 days.
Chairman Specter. You have Colonel Novosel, so anxious to
join and get back to that risk that he comes back at a vastly
lower rank. He wins the Congressional Medal of Honor, but he is
not entitled to the Combat Medical Badge?
General Le Moyne. But, sir----
Chairman Specter. It seems to me, General, to be a grave
injustice.
General Le Moyne [continuing]. But, sir, we have recognized
him in other ways, with his aeromedical wings, with his
Distinguished Flying Cross and his air medals, which combat
medics in the field do not earn.
Chairman Specter. But he is a second-class citizen if he
cannot qualify for the Combat Medical Badge.
General Le Moyne. Sir, I disagree. He is not a second-class
citizen by any stretch of the imagination.
Chairman Specter. Senator Murray.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. PATTY MURRAY, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE
STATE OF WASHINGTON
Senator Murray. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Let me thank all the courageous people who have come to
testify on this issue before us and for your having this
important hearing I think for us to perhaps right an injustice
that appears to be there, and I want to work with you on trying
to solve this problem.
I do not have any specific questions for these witnesses at
this time, but I would like to work with you, Mr. Chairman, to
try and solve this.
Let me just ask if I can make an opening statement at that
time.
But, again, thank you for coming today and for giving us
your testimony.
Chairman Specter. Well, thank you, Senator Murray.
General Le Moyne, to give you an opportunity to explain
just a little further, is your basic point that a medic has to
serve for 1 year as medical personnel accompanying a ground
combat unit in order to qualify for the Combat Medical Badge?
General Le Moyne. Not a full year, sir. We have criteria
that allows them to volunteer for duty and be attached for up
to 30 days.
Chairman Specter. For 30 days?
General Le Moyne. Yes, sir. Then we added criteria that
says that there must be an exchange of gunfire.
Chairman Specter. There must be?
General Le Moyne. An exchange of gunfire.
Chairman Specter. An exchange of gunfire.
General Le Moyne. Truly a combat situation.
Chairman Specter. Well, the Dustoff people are confronted
with gunfire.
General Le Moyne. They clearly are.
Chairman Specter. So they would meet that criterion.
General Le Moyne. Yes, sir, they do.
Chairman Specter. Are some of them not engaged for a period
of 30 days?
General Le Moyne. Not in continuous combat, no, sir.
Chairman Specter. Well, in aggregate combat?
General Le Moyne. It could be, sir, over a long period of
time.
Chairman Specter. Well, 30 days are 30 days. How relevant
is it whether it is a continuous 30 days in a row or 30 days
over a longer period of time?
General Le Moyne. Sir, the primary difference is that the
medivac pilot will go home at night or sometime during the day.
Your combat medic in the field will not. He will never get a
hot shower, he will never get a hot meal, he will never have
clean sheets, and he will never go to a club.
Chairman Specter. What do you think about that, Mr.
Novosel? Is the general making a reasonable, rational
distinction between the two categories of medics?
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. Let me just qualify my
disagreement with the general.
It has been said that the combat medic is out in the field
continuously, and while the battle goes on, I am sure he is in
that position, but it has been my experience, since I also
lived with the infantry for 3 and 4 days at a time----
Chairman Specter. Did you get to go home every night?
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. I know what----
Chairman Specter. Excuse me. Did you get to go home every
night and have a hot shower?
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. No. No, I would be out there
getting my boots muddy just the same as they did. Of course,
after being out there for 3 or 4 days, you know, you are
fighting the fact that you might get malaria. Your crew then
buttons up inside the helicopter. I loved my crewmen, but they
gave me, after so many days out there--and I would have to
sleep underneath the helicopter on one of the litters, and I
found it to be an enjoyable way of----
Chairman Specter. Colonel Novosel, how many days were you
in combat as a Dustoff pilot?
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. Sir, I flew, in 1 year,
1,407 hours. That is 4 hours a day, 365 days.
Chairman Specter. You were out there every day of the year?
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. Almost. If I averaged 4
hours a day, that is just the time in the air. Think of what
that meant----
Chairman Specter. How frequently were you there overnight?
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. Oh, quite frequently. Quite
frequently.
Chairman Specter. Mr. Travers, what is your view as to
General Le Moyne's classification?
Chief Warrant Officer Travers. Senator, I think it needs to
be understood--I was hoping a gentleman would be here today--
but he is in Alaska working for the Government--who did three
tours as a Green Beret, and then went to flight school and was
a Dustoff pilot. He would be glad to testify to you that as a
special forces on the ground in Vietnam, the contacts they
would run into would be possibly as many as four times in a
week. The firefights would be violent, but they would break
within an hour or two, and the enemy would disappear.
Chairman Specter. Of your own personal activities, how
frequently did you serve and stay overnight without having
access, as the general puts it, to a hot shower?
Chief Warrant Officer Travers. There were many times, if
you were--what you have to understand, Senator, is we had a
limited number of aircraft. So we supported all of the infantry
units throughout the country. So there were times you would be
out there for 3, 4, or 5 days living in a tactical operations
center or out in the field deployed because it was quicker to
be able to respond.
The other thing I want to make a point of is I will not say
every day, many times it would be booby traps and multiple
shrapnel wounds of that nature, but on an average, I would say
at least three to four times a day our crews came under direct
enemy fire--every day, every day because they were going to
where the firefight was. That was their mission.
Chairman Specter. Well, General, we are dealing here with a
badge which is denominated Combat Medical Badge. Is there any
doubt that these Dustoff men were in a medical unit?
General Le Moyne. No, sir, there is no doubt at all.
Chairman Specter. Is there any doubt that they were in
combat?
General Le Moyne. No, sir, there is no doubt at all.
Chairman Specter. In light of the risks they undertook,
described by Fred Castleberry, is there any doubt they are
entitled to recognition, which you might characterize as a
badge?
General Le Moyne. Sir, I would say, yes, and we have done
that.
Chairman Specter. Mr. Novosel, what is your view of the
general's comment that you are recognized in other ways? He
might ask if the Congressional Medal of Honor is not sufficient
recognition for you, without another badge.
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. Sir, I flew----
Chairman Specter. He did not ask you that, but he might
have.
General Le Moyne. No, sir, I would not.
Chairman Specter. I withdraw the question because the
general would not ask that.
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. I was just going to say that
it was my privilege to----
Chairman Specter. Do you want to answer the question?
[Laughter.]
Chairman Specter. Go ahead, sir.
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. I was just, in my own way, I
was going to answer it by saying to you that I flew 2,500
missions, evacuated 5,589. Now, you know by looking at me, you
can see that I could not have done that by myself. It was done
by those people behind me. They flew those same missions, those
same 2,500 missions. They were with me for those 1,400 hours.
Now, this is a terrific physical burden to endure, and I assure
you that when my year was up, I was a physical wreck, and I was
not 46, by the way. I was 48.
[Laughter.]
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. I was 46 when I----
Chairman Specter. Senator Thurmond was on this committee
for many years.
[Laughter.]
Chairman Specter. And----
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. I know the gentleman.
Chairman Specter. He was in combat in his forties. If he
were here, I think he would say do not make too big a fuss
between 48 and 46.
[Laughter.]
Chairman Specter. He did not make much of a fuss between 98
and 96.
[Laughter.]
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. I am still trying for his
record.
Chairman Specter. Well, we thank you.
When I heard about this issue, about what the Dustoff
personnel had done, I was frankly surprised that they were not
accorded the Combat Medical Badge because of the risks
undertaken.
I commend you, General Le Moyne. You have an outstanding
record, and you are a good soldier, and I think you presented a
good presentation, even though I would not want to characterize
the strength of your case. You are a lot stronger general and
soldier than the case which you have been asked to present.
But my sense is that this ought to be submitted to the
Congress of the United States. We do not disagree with the
Department of Defense too often, and in my tenure here, I have
been one of your strongest supporters in backing a strong
defense. The Department of Defense has done a phenomenal job.
I reminisced with the general for just a moment before we
started about the first soldier I knew. He was my father, and
he was a buck private, I am a little awed at seeing a general,
especially one who also had been a buck private.
My brother served in World War II, and I served during the
Korean War, stateside, and what a phenomenal job the men and
women of the fighting forces have done, especially in Iraq. As
we sit here today in the calm surroundings of this Senate
hearing room, they are risking their lives and giving their
lives, regrettably, daily.
I had a chance to travel with the President yesterday. He
went to Pittsburgh for a National Urban League Convention, and
I note that you, General Le Moyne, were trained at Shippensburg
State College. So you have got a Pennsylvania connection, too.
When the President goes to Pennsylvania, he asks that Senator
Santorum and I go with him. In talking with the President about
the contribution of individual soldiers in Iraq, my own
personal view is that we are not being generous when we
recognize the contributions of the men and women who are in our
fighting forces. I think our generosity and our thanks is
something that they really deserve.
So I had intended to introduce legislation on this subject,
but I thought I would await this hearing. I think whether these
men should be awarded the Combat Medical Badge is something
that the Congress of the United States ought to decide and then
the Commander in Chief will have a chance to decide whether he
agrees with the Congress or not.
Well, thank you all very much for coming gentlemen. We very
much appreciate your testimony.
General Le Moyne. Sir, thank you.
Mr. Castleberry. Thank you, sir.
Chief Warrant Officer Travers. Thanks.
Chief Warrant Officer Novosel. Thanks.
[Whereupon at 4:44, the committee was adjourned.]