[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 108 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 102-000 deg.
ECONOMIC GROWTH AND JOB CREATION
=======================================================================
ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON WORKFORCE, EMPOWERMENT & GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS
of the
COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
NEWNAN, GEORGIA, SEPTEMBER 2, 2003
__________
Serial No. 108-B
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Small Business
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/
house
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COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
DONALD A. MANZULLO, Illinois, Chairman
ROSCOE BARTLETT, Maryland, Vice NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York
Chairman JUANITA MILLENDER-McDONALD,
SUE KELLY, New York California
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio TOM UDALL, New Mexico
PATRICK J. TOOMEY, Pennsylvania FRANK BALLANCE, North Carolina
JIM DeMINT, South Carolina DONNA CHRISTENSEN, Virgin Islands
SAM GRAVES, Missouri DANNY DAVIS, Illinois
EDWARD SCHROCK, Virginia CHARLES GONZALEZ, Texas
TODD AKIN, Missouri GRACE NAPOLITANO, California
SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West Virginia ANIBAL ACEVEDO-VILA, Puerto Rico
BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania ED CASE, Hawaii
MARILYN MUSGRAVE, Colorado MADELEINE BORDALLO, Guam
TRENT FRANKS, Arizona DENISE MAJETTE, Georgia
JIM GERLACH, Pennsylvania JIM MARSHALL, Georgia
JEB BRADLEY, New Hampshire MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine
BOB BEAUPREZ, Colorado LINDA SANCHEZ, California
CHRIS CHOCOLA, Indiana ENI FALEOMAVAEGA, American Samoa
STEVE KING, Iowa BRAD MILLER, North Carolina
THADDEUS McCOTTER, Michigan
J. Matthew Szymanski, Chief of Staff and Chief Counsel
Phil Eskeland, Policy Director
Michael Day, Minority Staff Director
(ii)
C O N T E N T S
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Witnesses
Page
Perdue, The Hon. Sonny, Governor, State of Georgia............... 2
Akin, The Hon. Todd, U.S. Representative, Missouri............... 4
Collins, The Hon. Mac, U.S. Representative, Georgia.............. 5
(iii)
ECONOMIC GROWTH AND JOB CREATION
----------
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 2, 2003
House of Representatives
Subcommittee on Workforce, Empowerment, and
Government Programs
Committee on Small Business
Newnan, GA
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 5:19 p.m., in
the Council Chamber, Newnan City Hall, 25 LaGrange Street,
Newnan, Georgia, Hon. Phil Gingrey presiding.
Mr. Gingrey. First of all, let me welcome everyone to this
Economic Growth and Job Creation Roundtable here in Coweta
County and the City of Newnan. And we want to thank, at the
outset, Mayor Keith Brady for being kind enough to host this.
I have got the distinct pleasure chairing this event to
introduce to you three of my favorite, favorite people. Great
Americans and great Georgians and a great Missourian. We are
honored, certainly very much appreciative that Congressman Todd
Akin from the Second District of Missouri, my colleague in the
108th Congress, who is a Subcommittee Chairman of the Small
Business Committee in the Congress and so fully understands the
struggle that some of us are going through in our small
communities as is so typical of several of the counties in this
11th Congressional District.
Congressman Akin has just completed right here in this room
a field hearing, a full Congressional hearing, where we had
great testimony from elected officials from many of our
counties in the 11th District--Upson, Meriwether, Coweta--and
it was a very, very enlightening opportunity and we thank so
much Congressman Todd Akin from Missouri for being with us
today.
Certainly this guy to my left needs absolutely no
introduction, my former suite mate in the state Senate at a
time when we were both struggling in the minority. The minority
party was very grateful to have, of course, now Governor Sonny
Perdue as part of our leadership. And as we both thought about
what we might do politically, me running for Congress and Sonny
Perdue running for Governor, and proud to say today of course
that we were both successful and I am honored to be sitting
here next to my friend, the Governor of Georgia, the Honorable
Sonny Perdue. And Governor Perdue, I thank you so much for
being with us today.
Governor Perdue. Thank you.
Mr. Gingrey. Congressman Mac Collins--as everybody in
Coweta County and west Georgia knows him--certainly need no
introduction. Congressman Collins and I share--Mac and I share
about seven counties in this part of the state, has he has
represented the Eighth Congressional District for so many
years. I guess Mac is in his sixth term now, his 11th year in
the Congress, a member of the powerful and vitally important
Ways and Means Committee. He has got two things on his mind of
course, continuing to serve as an excellent member of the House
of Representatives and I think there is another little race on
his mind as well, but I am truly honored to have my colleague,
Mac Collins, join us for this economic roundtable discussion.
Mr. Collins. Thank you.
Mr. Gingrey. Senator Dan Lee, who is the Governor's right
hand, and maybe left hand too, although not on any left-handed
issues, is my great friend from LaGrange and Troup County, and
as the Governor's Floor Leader is doing a wonderful job in the
state Senate.
So it is certainly a great opportunity for us to come
together here this afternoon and have this roundtable
discussion, realizing that these are tough, tough economic
times. They are tough for Georgia, they are tough for the 11th
Congressional District, they are tough for the nation. And we
are suffering. The states are suffering, we are struggling at
the federal level, as Todd knows so well, having been in the
Congress longer than I have, to try to pay for a war that is
ongoing and certainly when the President says major conflict
ended a couple of months ago, he never said that the battle was
over. It is ongoing and it is costly, but it is vitally,
vitally important.
We are struggling with deficits at the federal level
because of that, but this too shall pass and it will pass
because, just as at the state level under the leadership of
Governor Perdue, we also have a great President in Washington.
We need to sit with him, we need to support him and he will
lead us to the promised land, and Sonny Perdue is going to lead
us to the promised land and we all just have to fight hard and
understand and understand our needs and work toward common
goals and solutions.
So with that, I would like to first of all as our Governor
to make a few remarks and then Congressman Todd Akin and
Congressman Mac Collins, if you will. And then we will just
kind of throw it open to questions.
With that, Governor Perdue.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE SONNY PERDUE, GOVERNOR, STATE OF
GEORGIA
Governor Perdue. Thank you, Phil, and I appreciate your
willingness to organize this roundtable. I am continually
amazed that every time we do our Saturdays with Sonny and have
visits with everyday Georgians what corporate wisdom comes from
just people out here every day. I know, Congressman Akin, you
find that same thing in Missouri. These are very, very helpful
and I want to applaud your organization of setting this up,
Phil. Thank you very much.
Congressman, we want to give you a good old Georgia
welcome. we are delighted that you are here, that you would
take time to be down with folks that we value here--Congressman
Mac Collins, who served--I actually sat by Mac when I first
came to the Senate and he tells people he trained me, so----
[Laughter.]
Governor Perdue. [continuing]. I do not know whether that
is good or bad, but he is taking credit for it anyway. Of
course, Mac is from small business and knows what it is to
build a business literally from the ground up and that is what
people here--we talked about a lot of things, but it really
comes down to the jobs. I know that is what you all are
focusing on and I know that is what the President is focusing
on, is getting this economy kicked back around.
I was meeting with the Council of Economic Advisors over a
working lunch. These were economists from the public and
private sector, and we are talking about public policy that can
make a difference in people's lives as far as getting people
back to work, stimulating the economy and getting jobs. I mean
when you really define quality of life, you can have a good
educational system, you can have good roads, but if you do not
have a job, you are hurting. And we have got families in
Georgia hurting right now. We want to put together the policies
that make good sense.
The good thing about it is--and Mac and Phil know this--
that the relationship that we have in the state with our
Congressional members and with the White House is just a
pleasure to do business these days. We have got I think a real
partnership and it is going to make a difference for Georgia,
as the relationships are strong and deep and trustworthy. And
that is where you can really get something done.
I am going to talk in just a second about local leadership
and this whole effort cannot be accomplished without good
leadership at the federal level, a state government willing to
do its part and then good local leadership. We can do
everything, we put all the good policies in place, but it is
good local leadership that really makes a difference in
communities around. So again, you all are blessed in this area,
but I want to challenge you all to continue to look toward
building good local leadership, not just in elected office, but
building community leaders that make a difference in your
community because that is what really will lead us into the
future and the future of our children and grandchildren will
depend on the foundation that you all are laying just now.
So in conjunction with our great Congressional delegation
and their leadership and the President in the White House
saying he wants to do his part in having the policies out here
that can get this economy back going and get people back
working, get people back spending and we are hoping that will
kind of fall down to some state revenue after all that as well.
We could use some.
We welcome you. Thank you for coming, taking time out, I
know it is busy and you all are just getting back to work and
got a busy fall ahead of you but it is very important for you
to be here in Georgia, and Phil, thank you for inviting the
Chairman here, and Mac, thanks for representing this part of
Georgia so well.
Mr. Gingrey. Thank you, Governor, so much. Congressman
Akin, Mr. Chairman.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE TODD AKIN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MISSOURI
Mr. Akin. Well, I thank you. I really feel, Governor,
completely welcome and if there were not so many good
Congressmen here, I might move down. But you know, I am just so
thankful for the leadership that you have sent to Washington,
D.C., because, you know, we have to work with all these
different people and I came in here, I chose Georgia over a lot
of other places just because of your leadership and the
invitation to come here and to have some of these hearings
outside of the Beltway and see what is happening at the
important place, where all of us live our lives.
You know, your comments even in the last minute or two
reflect so much my own personal belief about why I have an
optimistic attitude about things, because, you know, we talk
about infrastructure and we talk about making sure businesses
can be competitive, and all those kinds of things. But the real
bottom line of the whole picture is just the people that are
involved and people that have a sense of vision, have the guts
to take some idea and go out and put that idea in place, that
freedom that has always made America competitive and made it
successful. And I can sense that with the kinds of people--you
know, the people you elect to office is a big reflection of the
sort of community that you are. Sometimes that is a scary thing
when I run into some people elected to office----
[Laughter.]
Mr. Akin. [continuing]. But in your case, this a good
thing, and that reflects the fact that, you know, the economy
kind of goes up and down some, but when you have people that
are willing to go out there and to dream the dream and put it
on the line, that is how America has been built, by one dream
at a time. And I can see you all have the strength to do that,
and the economy goes up and down, but you can land on your
feet.
So I am just thankful for your leadership, Governor, and
for the fine Congressmen that you have been sending up, it
makes my job a lot easier. So I wish you all well and look
forward to the roundtable.
I will make a comment that because of our plane schedule, I
do have to leave in about half an hour or so, but it does not
mean I am quitting early.
Mr. Gingrey. Congressman Akin, thank you, Mr. Chairman,
thank you so much. And we are deeply appreciative that you
picked the 11th Congressional District of west Georgia to take
your time and be with us and to hear from, as we did earlier in
the hearing, the formal field hearing, from our mayors and our
count commission chairs and our city council members and the
presidents of our respective chambers and economic development
authorities, it has been a wonderful afternoon.
My colleague Mac Collins, talking about Sonny, our Governor
said that in some ways that state Senator--former state Senator
Mac Collins was his mentor, he has certainly been my mentor in
the Congress and as I needed some friends, freshmen always do,
Mac has always been there for me and what a pleasure to share
with him so many of these districts in west Georgia.
Mac, thank you for being here.
STATEMENT OF THE HONORABLE MAC COLLINS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF GEORGIA
Mr. Collins Thank you, Phil and Todd. Welcome to God's
country.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Collins It is a pleasure to have you here.
The Governor well knows that this is the best place on
earth to live, is the State of Georgia. Not taking anything
away from Missouri, I know we have to show you out there, but
it is a pleasure to have you here.
The Governor has set a record, you know, he is the first
Republican Governor since Reconstruction, which goes back
further than I have lived, and he too, so it is a pleasure to
have him. He started off--had a rough start, coming into a
situation where the economy took a real dive and revenues have
taken a dive with it and he has done his job well, he is
getting his sea legs under him now, and you ain't seen nothing
until next year, he will do a super job for the State of
Georgia.
You know, I saw the President just a few minutes yesterday
on C-Span as he was speaking I believe it was in Ohio to the
engineers' union. And he said it best, he said, you know, the
economy is about jobs--the economy is about jobs. I do not care
if it is the newest entrant into the job market or if it is the
top CEO of the country, it is a job. And that is what it is all
about, is the cash flow of people, the mother of all cash flows
and they get their money from their job.
There are a lot of problems. As the President said
yesterday, we have addressed a lot of problems with individuals
as far as tax relief. It is now time to address some problems
that businesses face. One area that I think is very important
that we take a look at, it is an area that we have not reduced
the tax burden on and that is the area of the corporate tax
rate. Most all industrialized nations have reduced their tax
liability to business, they are now drawing a lot of our jobs
because they are drawing our businesses away from here and they
are locating in other parts of the world. Although you can meet
that type of competition--either you meet them or beat them at
their own game, so now we have to take a look at what is
happening in the area of business tax. We did some of that
early on with the President's growth package when we reduced
the capital gains rate, we did some of that with the
accelerated depreciation on the 50 percent expensing, and we
are also taking a look at alternative minimum tax as far as
corporate. We did do something as far as individuals. The stock
dividend, the tax of 15 percent rather than the double taxation
at 35 percent was a good move.
But it is about jobs. We appreciate people who are willing
to take a risk. I started out at the age of 18 in a small
business. I also started out at the age of 18 in debt. I am 58,
be 59 next month, I am still a small business and I am still in
debt. But I tell people that come by the office it does not
matter who they are, if they are working people, I tell them I
appreciate the fact that they are working. If they are people
who are taking a risk to provide jobs, I do not care if it is a
small one or two man operation or two person operation or if it
is the CEO of Ford Motor Company or Georgia Pacific, whomever
it may be. They ask how can I help--that is where you can help,
keep those jobs going. We need those jobs, we need those jobs
in America. We understand that your business, small business as
well as large business, has challenges. We meet those
challenges ourselves.
We appreciate you being here and look forward to hearing
from you and I am going to hush. Thank you.
Mr. Gingrey. Congressman Collins, thank you very much.
And with that, I would like to open the roundtable up to
just, as it says, a roundtable. We are wanting to hear from
you, wanting to hear from the community, very thankful that so
many of you are here for this opportunity this afternoon the
direct some questions to Governor Perdue, to myself as a
Congressman representing this district as well as Congressman
Mac Collins and of course, Committee Chairman of a vitally
important Subcommittee of the Small Business Committee,
Representative Todd Akin. So why don't we just open it up and
we are ready for the first question.
Mr. Harper. Congressman Gingrey, let me comment on
something that you are extremely well aware of and all of you
are, and that is the burden of the increased health care cost
for the small business. And that is something that is not new
and that is something we are not going to solve here, but we
cannot have a roundtable and not say how important that is.
I am either owner or part owner of three different
businesses and there has to be some relief or it is going to
hurt not only job creation but job retention in the State of
Georgia, or any state. And it is something that needs a lot of
attention and a lot of work.
The other thing, talking about small businesses, is I
believe the Governor is working on an entrepreneur division or
department and I think that that is a great move and I think I
have heard the Governor say this, that we have to create our
jobs rather than import them. Not that we do not want to import
some, but we cannot depend totally on that. And in order to do
that, as a small business person, one of things that I would
add is that we need to find a way to simplify business. It
sometimes just gets almost too difficult to do business because
of laws and things that when they are made you may not
understand how--I know you understand, but the details of that.
Let me give you one example and then I will let somebody
else speak. We are trying to start some new banks in this area
here and we had everything ironed out and we had some federal
legislation, they call it Historical Preservation 106. Good
legislation, but it almost stopped about 35 or 38 jobs and over
a million dollar building in small communities. Anything that
is 50 years or older that has got federal ties to that, like a
bank with FDIC, that means that you have got to get their
approval before you can do anything as far as demolition is
concerned. We fought that battle for about two or three weeks
and I finally just asked the guy in charge of that--they came
down and met with us--are you willing to take the
responsibility for stopping these jobs and for cutting this
out, the communities are in favor of that or our community was
in favor of it.
So I just say that as an example. We did work through that
and we resolved that problem. It cost us, a small business, a
good bit of money to redo site plans and get those folks happy,
but we were able to sit down and come to an agreement. But I
think that is one example, anything from 50 years to 100 years.
I just say that in doing everything, we have got to find a
way to simplify doing business. And one other thing from the
entrepreneurial standpoint, you know, we have a great program
in the SBA, but there is a lot of red tape with the SBA. I
think not necessarily any new money, Governor, because I know
money is kind of tight these days, but you know, we have
technical colleges all over this state that are great technical
colleges and I think if that could be tied in with the
entrepreneur and the small business and the training and
business plans and all of that tied together as a part of that
program. I know they have to go get those, but I think we have
got in place people locally who understand what that system is
all about.
So I would just say that if I could sum all of this up,
health care, we have got to have some help; we do have to build
our jobs and we have to make it simple enough so a person is
willing to do that and can afford to do it. And in everything
that we do, let us not make it any more complicated.
Mr. Gingrey. Terry, thank you. And what I will ask the
roundtable discussants, if they will, to identify themselves
and I will do that for Terry. Terry is my good friend, Terry
Harper from Heard County, Franklin, Georgia and a leader in
that community, and Terry, I really appreciate that question.
I am going to start the answers, and of course, it is a
multi-tiered question and Mac and Todd, I think are better
equipped to handle some of those questions, and also Governor
Perdue in regard to the health care, but let me just start that
out by saying that as we go back to Congress tomorrow, we have
some heavy lifting to do in regard to several health care
issues. As you know, the House passed H.R. 5, the tort reform
legislation two months ago, three months ago, and it is sitting
in the Senate being studied intently and we are struggling
because of the need for a super majority rather than a simple
majority. This needs to be passed and it is all about leveling
the playing field, it is not about denigrating the legal
profession. There are people who are involved in personal
injury practice and they do a good job and they are very much
needed. But we need to level that playing field, because if we
do not do it, we are not going to have any physicians at the
emergency room when our young children or grandchildren are
injured, we are not going to have any OB/GYN doctors willing to
deliver a high risk pregnancy for fear of a bad outcome.
And by the way, we estimate that this probably is costing
the federal government each year enough to fully pay for the
prescription drug benefit, the version that we passed in the
House, and I say that because the federal government spends
maybe two-thirds of every health care dollar on Medicare,
Medicaid, veterans' benefits, military retirees and active duty
personnel. And there is a whole lot of defensive medicine going
on there as well, multiple redundant tests that are ordered
because of that. We need to deal with that and we need to
modernize Medicare. We do not need just simply a prescription
drug benefit, a stand-alone would just further accelerate the
day when Medicare would be in default. So we need to also
modernize the Medicare and bring it from 1965 to the 21st
century.
I would like to ask the Governor to maybe comment a little
bit in regard to the Medicaid program, which you know is under
tremendous pressure in the various states and certainly here in
Georgia and I know the Governor is working very diligently to
try to deal with that concern.
Governor Perdue.
Governor Perdue. Well, certainly that is a program that is
under a lot of physical pressure, but I am a small businessman
too and I just got my renewal rate, so I know exactly what you
are talking about. They were in the high double digits and so I
know exactly what you are referring to that way.
The tort issue is one of those issues that I think can
help, but it is a complex problem and there has got to be a lot
of solutions there--better technology use in medicine and
helping to solve that.
But you are exactly right, if we do not start making
progress on that issue and we continue to spend a greater and
greater percentage of our GDP on health care, this country will
not be as productive, it will not be as successful in the
future as it has been. That is just a fact of the matter. These
require, you know, sort of getting some of these partisan
politics out and this jockeying around, and creating real
solutions for the average person out here who is trying to grow
jobs in that way. And it takes a multi-faceted approach to
solutions on that.
Certainly regulations--this is one thing I have told our
people, on the over-regulation of small business, let us get
some clearinghouses here and find some people that can say yes
rather than say no. That is a big need in government sometimes,
is to find people who want to find ways to say yes rather than
no and to help people drive the economy. I mean after all, it
is your capital, your risk and your sweat equity that is
building jobs there. So that is what we want to do, and that
includes a variety of issues with the training aspect that you
mentioned.
Mr. Gingrey. Congressman Akin.
Mr. Akin. We have heard enough from Congressman Akin.
Mr. Gingrey. Mac?
Mr. Collins There is only one other thing that I can think
of offhand that we are doing that could help small business and
that is associated health plans where a small business can join
with other small businesses through an association and buy
collectively a plan at hopefully a much less cost. We passed
that in the House, it just needs to pass over in the other
body.
Mr. Harper. I think that is a great benefit because that
can move them up into a larger group.
Mr. Collins That is right.
Mr. Akin. You are going to hear a little bit of a common
mantra, there are a bunch of these things that you have brought
up and other people are going to bring some things up. We pass
legislation in the House and it goes to the Senate and it is
just kind of sitting there. So some of us would love to kind of
jump start the Senate a little bit and get some of these things
moving. But we have dealt with medical practice, we have dealt
with tort reform, we have dealt with the associated health
plans and a number of different things that will have bearing
on that. It is just a matter of trying to get them moving.
Mr. Gingrey. You know, Terry, also in regard--you brought
up the specific issue there in Heard County, the hurdles that
are created. You have an opportunity, you have local effort and
entrepreneurship trying to do something for the community and
you fun into these hurdles.
I clipped an article out of the newspaper, I am not sure
whether it was AJC or my local newspaper in Marietta or maybe
it was one in the district, but it was talking about the number
of rules and regulations that the various and sundry
departments of the federal government put upon us, the small
business men and women in these communities that we represent.
And probably for every law that is passed by the Congress,
there are 50 rules and regulations which are done just simply
by departmental fiat, if you will, that just over-burden and
make it very difficult to succeed in our small businesses. So
it is a good point you bring up, we need to look very closely
at that.
Ms. Blencoe. I would like to make a comment, I am Corinne
Blencoe, I am with the Georgia Department of Community Affairs.
This gets back to the question about the hurdles and I just
want to point out that the Historic Preservation is not always
a hurdle for small businesses. I own a historic building myself
and I know it can be tricky sometimes negotiating all the
paperwork and everything, but we use historic preservation as a
basis for a lot of good programs that benefit small businesses.
Through our department, we have better hometown and main street
programs, which are basically grassroots programs to help
downtowns improve themselves, make a better environment for
small businesses in the downtown area. And that is based on
preservation. If you have got downtown buildings, we need to
use them first. Maybe a good example of a successful main
street community, Jennifer Elliott here from Manchester, is a
good example of a successful main street community. Jennifer
Elliott here with Manchester is one of our better hometowns.
Another thing I wanted to point out is that there is
significant financial and state tax incentive programs tied to
historic preservation, so that National Historic Preservation
Act of 1966 does create hurdles, but it also does give--to the
right project, it does give some financial incentives.
It is a hurdle I know and it is paperwork, but sometimes it
actually does have benefits for our small communities.
Mr. Harper. We had all of those discussions and my concern
was that they had no economic tie to the effect.
Ms. Blencoe. Right, right.
Mr. Harper. That is what I was trying to get at. Historic
preservation is good, I have served on the Historic
Preservation Society, so I am not against that. I am just
saying there has got to be some changes there. When laws are
made that can stop that kind of growth. It was very difficult
to get to the negotiating table, it was like that is the way it
is, but we finally did.
Ms. Blencoe. And that law was passed 37 years ago.
Mr. Gingrey. Corinne, thank you for bringing that up,
because as you point out, things like the main street program
in Georgia has been a tremendous success and all you have to do
is look at some of the brochures and some of the communities
like Newnan and other towns where that has been a great
success.
But I think, you know, maybe what Terry is referring to is
needing to strike a balance. And quite honestly, whether it is
a member of the Georgia General Assembly in state government or
whether it is a member of Congress or city council or county
commissioners, you are constantly trying to strike that balance
and to make sure that there is--it is a trite expression, but a
level playing field for everybody involved, and that as you
hear from a constituency or an advocacy group, the Governor has
to deal with that every day to try to make these tough
decisions to make sure that nobody gets an unfair advantage to
the detriment of the majority. And it is a very tricky thing to
deal with, both at the federal, state and local levels.
Mr. O'Neill. Congressman, I am Ken O'Neill with the Carroll
County Chamber of Commerce and I agree with Terry on a lot of
what has been said about issues facing small business. There is
no question in our small community that availability of health
care for small businesses is probably number one. If I go into
any group meeting of small businesses, local coffee shops in
the morning or whatever, that topic will surface more than
anything else.
Probably there is more fear in that one issue because if I
cannot afford it, I do not have it, what do I do. So I am
living day to day and hopefully nothing goes wrong.
But worker quality is still an issue. I think a lot of
businesses, especially in the medium size range, are concerned
about the quality of the workforce of the future. That is not
to say that everything is not getting better in that area, but
some folks have bigger concerns than others about where the
leaders of their businesses in the future are going to come
from.
And then finally, I would just say that entrepreneurship, I
consider that to be maybe a bigger part of Georgia's future
than some people. I think the rich days of manufacturing are
not going to be as prevalent as they once were. I do think that
entrepreneurship and encouraging startup businesses are going
to be a vital program to each community across the state and
that our programs need to be geared both on a state, federal
and local level to assisting that business get going, take
roots and be ore successful. As you know, three out of four
businesses fail. So that ratio needs to change as we go into
the decades in the future.
Mr. Gingrey. Ken, thank you for those comments. Governor,
you might want to address some of that. I know you just got
back from a trade mission and working hard to make sure that we
have an educated workforce, both at the technical level at
adult technical colleges in the state and of course, Carroll
County has West Georgia, one of our best, West Georgia
Technical College, we are trying to do just exactly what you
are talking about, Ken.
Governor Perdue. I think the dropout rate is of concern
obviously to all of us and that is one area we have got to
focus on. My vision is to allow DTAE to kind of come down into
our K through 12 and engage those kids who may have lost
interest or lost hope in high school and get them some hands on
experience with a joint degree, where they have got a high
school degree, if they complete a job skills training as part
of a technical school, in a joint enrollment situation, coming
out of that prepared to go into the workforce in a trained
modern day environment. So that is where we hope to head now.
Ms. Griffies. I am Linda Griffies, I am with West Georgia
Technical College in LaGrange, Georgia.
Our particular college, during the last year, was the
fastest growing college in the state. We have seen our
enrollment move from about 1100 or 1200 to 2200 over the last
year and we are working with workforce development sites, both
in Meriwether County and in Heard County, and we are working
with Terry in Heard County for an entrepreneurial development
center there.
We are making available a lot of our marketing people and
instructors in our school to provide assistance to small
businessmen in their startup operations.
However, we like everyone else in the state will be facing
more budget cuts going down the road. It is a reality, it is
something that we have to accept, but what concerns us is the
ability to deliver to the small businessman the same quality of
employees that we would be able to deliver to a large company
coming in, because like you say, they are probably going to be
the ones who will fuel our economy in the future.
That is my biggest concern, is maintaining the quality that
we deliver to all of our outlying areas. We have dual
enrollment programs in every high school in our tri-county area
at the current time, at least one, if not three or more in the
various high schools. And that is my biggest concern moving
forward, is our ability to be able to maintain the level of
service that we deliver with the shrinking resources that are
available to us.
Mr. Gingrey. You know, Linda, you mention that and I cannot
help but sit here and think about what happened recently at
State University of West Georgia. You are very familiar and I
know that Ken is as well. They have a program there called the
Advanced Academy where they bring in high school students who
literally complete high school their junior and senior years,
in some instances, on the campus of the State University of
West. Many of these extremely bright students come from
impoverished backgrounds and they were only able to enroll in
that academy with the help of the Pell scholarship program
through the federal government. And then all of a sudden that
was taken away from them because they were labeled as joint
enrollment students, when truly they were not joint enrollment
as you and Ken and Terry point out in regard to still being
high school students but taking some courses at an adult or
technical college. And they lost these Pell grants. So we have
got to go back to Washington and try to make a little change in
the law to make sure that this wonderful program is not
destroyed because of some little quirk in the law.
I think what you are talking about, and Terry earlier in
his comments, is trying to--those of us who are in Congress--to
remove some of these unnecessary barriers to success, if you
will.
Ms. Blencoe. Linda mentioned that they are working on
several workforce development centers around the region. One of
those is in Meriwether and we were, through the Department of
Community Affairs, we were able to award the count a $500,000
community development block grant to help fund the
construction. We are so pleased to have that. It is a federally
funded program that is appropriated to each state and our
department just makes the grants available on a competitive
basis once a year. But the best thing about it was we were able
to award that grant knowing that the community had raised
almost $300,000 in matching funds. So I mean it was a great
federal appropriation that made the project happen, but it was
really the local fund raising too that went to make up part of
it. It is actually going to fly because of the local funding
that has been pulled together in the past six to eight months.
Mr. Gingrey. Corinne, when we had the field hearing earlier
today, we talked a lot about the Tier 1 counties, such as
Meriwether and Talbot, some of which are in this 11th
Congressional District, and the great needs that they have and
what we can do, both at the local, state and federal level, to
try to reach out with some of that compassion. I made a
reference, Governor, to no child left behind. I think we just
need to try to do more to make sure that no community is left
behind and I know that nobody, no Governor, no elected official
that I know of has more compassion for rural Georgia than you
do and you being from Bonaire realize and understand that while
we agree that Atlanta is the economic engine and that large
metropolitan area, that we need to do all we can to try to help
these Tier 1 counties, so many of which I represent.
Ms. Elliott. I am Jennifer Elliott with the City of
Manchester in Meriwether County, and we have here too Susannah
Dobbs who is owner of Dobco in our city, who employs about 40
employees. And one of the unique things about her company is
that--well, first of all, it is the kind of business that we
really want in our city, because it is fairly new and it is
growing quickly. She makes thermal plastic pavement markers, is
that correct?
Ms. Dobbs. Yes, that is correct.
Ms. Elliott. And one of the unique things about it is she
would really like to even benefit our city more than just
through the employees and the local taxes, but her sales tax
when she makes a delivery, she pays the taxes where she makes
the delivery. And so our city and our county does not get those
revenues. I do not know if that is federal law or state law,
but that was one way--if there is some way we could shift that
to where the city--that somehow she can make the sale in the
city or change that law somehow that we can benefit, because
like I said, we are a small city and a small county and that
would be another way that we could benefit from this great new
industry that we have.
Mr. Gingrey. Jennifer, before we respond to that question,
Congressman Akin has got a plane and he is going to have to
dash to Hartsfield--I think it is still Hartsfield
International Airport, isn't it?
[Laughter.]
Mr. Gingrey. But I just want to say before he leaves, again
how much we appreciate Congressman Akin being with us today.
Mr. Bezas. Actually we have a few extra minutes that we
have allocated to the schedule. I apologize, it was my fault,
and the Congressman does not know.
Mr. Akin. It has something to do with a police escort.
Mr. Gingrey. Oh, I see.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Gingrey. Thank you very much. Jennifer.
Ms. Elliott. And a follow up with that as well, I know we
really want industry in our town and in our county and
certainly want that little car company to come to our county.
But we also really want to do everything we can to support the
small industries because that is our lifeblood. I think the
days of the large manufacturers are gone. Our largest
manufacturer used to employ around 1000 and I think they now
employ around 500. So we are really looking to the Susannah
Dobbs of the world to come to Meriwether County and Manchester
and really grow, in a small way, and to try to get more
incentives for small manufacturers to come to our city, not
just the larger ones.
I know when she gets ready to expand, we want to be right
there to help her. And it is kind of about cutting through the
red tape. We have a revolving loan that is allocated for
Manchester, but we have to re-apply and so that kind of makes
that process a little bit longer. If there is some way--we have
already--it is a loan that we received six or seven years ago
that we have paid back for the first industry that we got in.
And then if we want to be able to loan that back to Susannah,
we have to go through the whole application process all over
again, even though that money is allocated for our city. So if
there is any way we can kind of cut through some red tape there
as well, so when Susannah comes to me and says I am ready to
expand, can you help me, we can try to make that process happen
faster.
Ms. Blencoe. What Jennifer is referring to is the community
development block grant program. We can set aside monies for
economic development. Basically that money, CDBG, is to benefit
low to moderate income individuals, as you well know, and
through the economic development set-aside, we do allow CDBG to
create local revolving loan funds. If it is a loan to a
manufacturer, they pay it back to the community, but because it
is federal money, at the state level and the local level, our
hands are still tied by these federal regulations which make--
even though the money is recaptured locally and is waiting to
be used only in Manchester, they still have to go through an
application process.
Ms. Elliott. And it is also still tied to job creation.
Ms. Blencoe. Right, still has to be----.
Ms. Elliott. So even if she says I just need more room, I
could do my business more efficiently if I had 20,000 feet of
extra space, we still would have to prove even further job
creation or really hit home with job retention, but any way you
could try to make that process a little easier for us.
Ms. Blencoe. And that is hard regulations.
Ms. Elliott. Because it is job retention is really what we
are trying to achieve and job creation because we want our new
businesses to be our old businesses 10 years from now.
Mr. Gingrey. Susannah, Jennifer, that is what a roundtable
is all about, telling us what your unique problems are in your
county, in this district and what we can do both at the federal
and state level to give you some relief. I think that tax
issue, maybe others at this state would understand that a
little bit better than I do, whether it is Senator Lee or
Congressman Collins or Governor Perdue, but we want to do
everything we can to keep those jobs, because we do not need to
lose any more of what we have got.
Ms. Dobbs. I just also would like to go on record and say
that we are a classic company that has taken advantage of as
many programs as we know exist that are there. We got our
original financing through SBA, we have tried to take advantage
of all the job tax credits, we try to use Savannah ports. We
try to do everything that we possibly can do and those programs
do help, especially in new business. So any support that you
continue to give to those programs will certainly help us.
We still have struggles in our community because we are a
Tier 1 community. My biggest issue really is finding an
employable workforce. The educational level is low and we try
to get involved in the school system to try to help these kids
understand how important an education is. We also feel like
there's a big need for the community to be educated, not only
on how the children need to be educated through the public
school system but also the importance of industry to their
community in spreading out that tax base and creating a tax
base, so that there are monies available for the kind of
programs that we need and there is a huge issue in our county
that people just do not understand what industry does to a
community. So it is a constant thing that we work on to try to
educate folks in that arena.
But the job tax credits and like I say all the programs
that have been out there have certainly been a big help to us.
So we appreciate it.
Mr. Gingrey. Thank you, Susannah.
We have probably got time for one last question. I know the
Governor has got an awfully tight schedule and Congressman
Akin, of course, was able to stay a few more minutes, but does
have a plane to catch. I think there is a preschool program, a
K-5 program, right here in Newnan, Coweta County, that some of
us would like to at least have five minutes to stop by and say
hello and see some of the wonderful things that they are doing,
and then I head to Columbus, Georgia, believe it or not, part
of my district, for a little talk down there tonight.
But we have got just a few more minutes and if there is
another question, we would be happy to hear from someone else.
I think this has been very, very informative. I am very
grateful for the participants.
Chairman Akin, thank you again for your time and for being
with us. I look forward to seeing you tomorrow in Washington--
will not be long.
Governor Perdue, thank you for being willing to give us an
hour plus of your time out of your busy schedule to be with us
in West Georgia, I know you understand how much we are
suffering in this district with the loss of a lot of
manufacturing jobs and we are going to try to work very hard to
improve that situation.
Mac, I thank you for being with us. It is a pleasure to
share west Georgia with you in the Congress.
With that, if there are no other questions--excuse me,
Senator Lee.
Senator Lee. I just wanted to say if I could that, as you
understand, districts are spread hither and yonder. As we sit
here today we sit in my Senate district. You have been to my
home in LaGrange. The two do not really kind of go together
except that I know a great deal about Newnan.
I appreciate having these folks here, who I think of as our
government in Georgia. You are here, Governor, Congressman
Collins. Our fine visitor here from Missouri was saying
something about senators, former senators, and I think you
ought to know that he has two more here amongst us. He is out-
numbered greatly.
I appreciate very much, Governor, as always, your
leadership and Phil putting this together and having Mac
Collins here.
Thank you.
Mr. Gingrey. Senator Lee, I appreciate it. And as the
Governor's Floor Leader, as Mac Collins said, we ain't seen
nothing yet. I know that under the leadership of the Governor
and with your able assistance, that we are going to see some
great things in the General Assembly this next year.
In closing, let me just finally say----.
Mr. Collins May I ask a question?
Mr. Gingrey. Sure.
Mr. Collins Susannah, you are manufacturing, I do not know
what product, I am sorry.
Ms. Dobbs. Thermoplastic pavement markings that are used
for the yellow and white lines on the highway.
Mr. Collins Okay. I visited the plant that you were at once
before. Are you competing in a national market in any sort of
way?
Ms. Dobbs. Yes, we are. We compete in--really there is a
U.S. market that we compete in, but yeah, we are having to
compete against companies in Texas, Atlanta, west coast.
Mr. Collins There is one other measure that has been
introduced in the Congress--and it was introduced by John
Linder from Georgia, it is calling for a total restructure of
the tax code. I know Phil is on the bill, I am on the bill and
I have encouraged the Ways and Means Committee Chairman to hold
some hearings, it is called the Fair Tax, it is a national
retail sales tax. It would eliminate all of the federal income
tax, corporate, individual as well as the payroll tax. The
purpose of it is to make us more competitive in the world
market because it would take the cost of all the taxation out
of the production of goods and services, retail sales tax would
not be included in anything that was sold offshore or sold
wholesale.
It also serves another purpose too, and that is it would
add back a tax where we would just about eliminate all of our
tariffs on products coming into this country. And by adding
that tax back, it makes it more in line with the cost of
production here.
So it is a very good measure and one that I hope we can get
a lot of people behind in Washington. I do not know if Todd is
on that bill or not, but I am soliciting his support of it
right now.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Collins It is a good measure, it is a way to look at
the future as to how we can compete in the world market. I am
not one to give up on the world market. I think we can compete,
it is just going to take some thinking, you know, from those of
us who have been competing all our lives, as to how you do
that.
I was just over in Thailand last week, and I will not bore
you all with a long story, but we were meeting with the prime
minister of Thailand and he was talking about a bilateral--
wants a free trade agreement with the United States. I told
him, well, we are not so much interested in free trade any
more, we want fair trade. We want to exchange--not just
continue to exchange our money for their goods, but we want to
be able to sell them some goods. But it is kind of difficult to
sell to a country that does not have a great deal of
prosperity. It is hard for them to buy our product.
In the meantime, he was talking about Burma, which is a
country next to Thailand that has a severe problem. Their
biggest industry over there is heroin that they are smuggling
into Thailand and the Thais do not want it, they are trying to
stop them. And he kept talking about a road map, we have a road
map. If the Burmese will just listen to us, we have a road map
for them that will take them into prosperity, and of course, I
did not respond to anything like that at the time.
But when we got up, he gave us a little gift, he gave us a
necktie and as he was handing me the tie, I said, sir, can I
ask you a question and he said sure. I did not want to
embarrass him in front of the whole group because I knew the
answer. I said does your road map for Burma include a free
trade agreement. Oh, no, no, no, no. They could not buy
anything we make in Thailand, they do not have any money. I
said well, I rest my case. It hurts when it comes home, does it
not? Because if you look at it in an equivalent way, that is
the way we are competing in America with people like Thailand,
Vietnam and other countries who have very low cost compared to
what we do here, and they are just eating our lunch based on
that cost, but we cannot beat them on the cost of labor. But
there are other ways that we can beat them.
And that is the reason I go back to this national sales tax
that John Linder is promoting and go back to the regulatory
costs that we put on all businesses in this country. Health
care costs is one of them that we put on business, and a lot of
the things at the state and federal level we force businesses
to participate in turn out to be very, very costly.
So there are ways that we can, if we can just get enough
people in Washington to understand that, that we can compete in
foreign markets.
Mr. Gingrey. Mac, thank you very much.
And finally, let me thank Mayor Keith Brady, the Mayor of
Newnan, and Danny Lewis, City Manager, for giving us the
opportunity and hosting us today.
And with that, I declare this roundtable adjourned.
[Whereupon, at approximately 6:15 p.m, the roundtable was
adjourned.]